A look from the West: The new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral

As you know, the RF Ministry of Defense ordered the construction of two universal landing ships (UDC) in Kerch at the Zaliv shipyard. Their appearance is suspiciously reminiscent of the French Mistral helicopter carriers.

About this in an article for the western edition of Forbes writes an American expert in the field of armaments David Ex.

The author assumes that the new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral, which our country planned to acquire six years ago, but due to the sanctions imposed, the contract was terminated and the deal did not take place.

The contract between the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Kerch Shipyard was signed on May 22. Under the agreement, the enterprise is to build two universal landing ships of project 23900.

The displacement of the new UDC is 25 thousand tons. It is capable of carrying on board up to 20 helicopters, several landing craft and 900 marines.

David Ax refers to the Russian author of Livejournal, who has the nickname bmpd, who also draws attention to the significant similarities between the new Russian ship and the French landing helicopter carrier.

In addition, as an argument in favor of his version, Ex cites the conclusion of the American Center for Naval Analysis, made last year regarding the alleged plans of the Russian military leadership to create the UDC:

If such ships are to be built, then their creation will undoubtedly come in handy for the short experience that the Russians gained from the French under the contract for the supply of Mistral before it was terminated.

Comments

[NordUral]

And what is sadness? I don’t know only, but for hell to us.

[Bashkirkhan]

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

[neri73-r]

And how long to read it, it is a long time.

[Dym71]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

And this is not an article, this is news, and minutes on it.

[Tatyana]

Yes, during the construction of the Mistrals in France, Russian shipbuilders really got the necessary experience in building helicopter carriers on their own.
Moreover, Russian helicopter carriers in their design characteristics compare favorably with the French.
Russian helicopter carriers are 10 meters longer and carry not more than 16 helicopters, but more than 20.
In addition, the Russian helicopter carriers have a drooping nose for landing troops on a dry surface, which is not the case with the Mistral.
Russian helicopter carriers are intended for use in arctic conditions.

“Mistral” have a rest: Russian Navy will receive universal landing helicopter carrier ships January 11 2018 year


Helicopter carrier "Mistral".

[Fat]

We were not here .... Well, the speaker in 1 video indicated .... But is this even necessary? Where? In the Pacific, yes. Vital, Otherwise this plot is Nikakovsky.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Tatiana

Moreover, Russian helicopter carriers

what a lie? ... where did you see the Russian helicopter carriers ??

[kutuz]

"Russian helicopter carriers are 10 meters longer" - and three times more expensive!

[Tatyana]

Quote: kutuz

"Russian helicopter carriers are 10 meters longer" - and three times more expensive!

Well, it’s written

Quote: Tatiana

Russian helicopter carriers 10 m longer and they are no longer carrying 16 helicopters, but more than 20.
In addition, Russian helicopter carriers have a LOWERING NOSE for dropping troops immediately onto a DRY SURFACE surface, and not into the water, which is not the case with the Mistral.
Russian helicopter carriers are intended for use in arctic conditions.

Now turn on your logic and answer your question! Why should Russian helicopter carriers cost like the Mistral?
First of all. The price of Mistrals for the Russian Federation was set in 2013, and now it is already 2020! 7 years have passed! Over the past 7 years, should inflation in the Russian Federation be taken into account or not? Of course you do!
Second. The increase in the dimensions of the ship and TTX affects the cost of the box? Affects in the direction of its increase.
Thirdly. Improving the design solution to simplify the tasks of landing - the hinged bow of the ship in the Russian version - increases the cost of the ship? Of course, more expensive! But this improvement in ship design is worth it!
Fourth. "+", for sure, a more modern filling of the ship!
Fifth. As well as the Arctic version of the design of the ship itself for using Russian helicopter carriers under construction to strengthen the protection of the Russian North Sea Route, which, in fact, the Pentagon boiled with its NATO.

[Tatyana]

Quote: kutuz

"Russian helicopter carriers are 10 meters longer" - and three times more expensive!

I forgot to say
Seventh. Since Russian helicopter carriers will be built within 4-5 years, inflation (mandatory) (!) Must also take into account and include inflation for these upcoming 4-5 years of ship construction in order for the shipbuilding plant to operate cost-effectively and be able to to complete the ships efficiently and without interruption in the timing of their manufacture.
Therefore, the price of helicopter carriers will also certainly be increased with a reserve for inflation planned for 4-5 years ahead! This is the elimination in the business plan of the production of an important business risk - the business risk of inflation.

[kutuz]

"4-5 years" - and you are an optimist!

[Alekseev]

And how does this American know what kind of ship they will build? Their performance characteristics, etc.?
There are enough such boobies in the homeland, and you may not have to attract an overseas partner. If only there is nothing to do with a lot of ...

[Insurgent]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

Quote: neri73-r

And how long to read it, it is a long time.

In this article, 1632 characters, excluding spaces - 1417, word count - 216

[Insurgent]

David Ax refers to the Russian author of Livejournal, who has the nickname bmpd, who also draws attention to the significant similarities between the new Russian ship and the French landing helicopter carrier.

Yes likeness on the face . Both have nose и stern !

[Vita vko]

American arms expert

it sounds ... Further, most experts in the field of weapons will insert a word close to obscene.

[Alex777]

He is still bmpd the author named loshara.

[AVA77]

And an anchor, two.

[Deck]

And an anchor, two.

Where did they get it? Is this ship disabled?

[AVA77]

Why is a disabled person?

[Deck]

Usually, there are a few more anchors on ships. At least still a spare. It happens aft. Anything can happen

[AVA77]

Thanks for the science About anchors, I blurted it out of the bulldozer.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Deck

Usually, there are a few more anchors on ships. At least still a spare. It happens aft. Anything can happen

And you can use the propeller instead of the propeller and fly like a helicopter.

[Fat]

Yes .. Perhaps ... Benefits have already been conceived ... It's so sad ... and this "tin" - a ship? No!
This is a yawning schizoid-inspired yacht in the military ... there. kvak 25000-50 tons ... yeah ... there is a barge, God forgive me around the world, yes ... This is a super invalid!

[Roman_vh]

What was it? Robots?

[Fat]

Profanity Swearing

[Fat]

Project 12700

[Non liberoid Russian]

incoherence and confusion of speech says it's time to bite

[knn54]

ALL inventions / patents have analogues and prototype.
Well, the French would comment, but the Yankees do not care.

[Alex777]

They envy us so that they can’t eat.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Alex777

They envy us so that they can’t eat.

Well, you, right word, are bent! They then envy. They have everything in order with the fleet.

[Alex777]

Why bent? They have in their dreams that we have nothing at all.
And here it seems they did not give us the Mistral, but we still started to build the UDC. So far 2. And there it will be seen how much more is needed.
Yes, not just copies, but seriously improved ships.
Highways were designed according to civil standards, and ours according to Navy standards. Vitality and all that.

[lis-ik]

I’m still working out. So what do they envy?

[Alex777]

I will explain from another side.
The more large, modern ships in the fleets of countries not occupied by the States, the more difficult it is for them to pull their fleet onto the globe. And the more our opportunities to pursue an independent policy.
If you do not agree with this, then I have nothing more to add.
By the way, didn’t you look at Mimino?

[lis-ik]

Quote: Alex777

By the way, didn’t you look at Mimino?

I looked and appreciated the quote.

Quote: Alex777

The more large, modern ships in the fleets of countries not occupied by the States

There is great doubt that this will be brought to an end, by the way there are doubts about the unoccupied.

[Alex777]

There is great doubt that this will be brought to an end, by the way there are doubts about the unoccupied.

You live with these doubts. I have no such doubts.

[Kaetani]

Very sound remark

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

The more large, modern ships in the fleets of countries not occupied by the States, the more difficult it is for them to pull their fleet onto the globe.

Modern anti-ship coastal systems are much cheaper, and taking into account the appearance of supersonic missiles, relatively cheap compared to the cost of ships, casts doubt on your conclusion. Now we are witnessing this in aviation, where the development of UAVs and the latest air defense systems casts doubt on the traditional type of air operation against countries in which they are armed.

[Alex777]

Timokhin read:
https://vz.ru/world/2020/5/5/1037804.html

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

Timokhin read:

Timokhin, unfortunately, is not so credible that his thoughts can be perceived as absolute truths.
Firstly, he operates with Soviet ideas that the Navy should only be fought against by the forces of the Navy, which is now impossible because our fleet is smaller.
Secondly, he has naive ideas about the secrecy of the AUG, and that modern intelligence tools will not be able to find such a group.
Thirdly, the AUG, while it is not closer than 1 thousand miles from our shores, is not at all dangerous to us.
You can still list what Timokhin is mistaken, but not his article is considered here, so if he wants to, then let him stamp it on VO and then discuss it.

[Alex777]

Alexander Timokhin is a competent person in the topic under discussion.
I leave all statements addressed to him on your conscience.
They are so simple-minded that I do not see the need to answer you.

Modern anti-ship coastal systems are much cheaper

Are you talking about our coastal facilities?
About which specifically? Cheaper than what?
Strongly they will help us in Syria if what? They also need to be covered. And from the UAV, and from saboteurs.
In short - DBK is not a panacea for all problems.
Although when they are, life is better than when they are not.

given the appearance of supersonic missiles, relatively cheap compared to the cost of ships, casts doubt on your conclusion.

What is the conclusion? About the need for BNK? No doubt.
That is why I gave you a good link so that you don’t waste your time.

Now we are witnessing this in aviation, where the development of UAVs and the latest air defense systems casts doubt on the traditional type of air operation against countries in which they are armed.

Very few people can solve the difficult and complex task of creating access zones. In our vast territory, separate zones are possible.
At the same time, it is obvious that the air defense ammunition is not infinite. And the emergence of a large number of new air defense systems and all sorts of MALDs with a launch range of more than 100 km greatly complicates the tasks of the "latest air defense systems".
The Yankers are already developing A2 / AD overcome technologies.
Including using hypersonic missiles.
This is, briefly, on the fingers. Unfortunately, there is no time.
I am sure of one thing - we will not get bored soon.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

Alexander Timokhin is a competent person in the topic under discussion.

So his opponents are not all fools - I think so.

Quote: Alex777

They are so simple-minded that I do not see the need to answer you.

Do not be shy, answer with something highly sophisticated ...

Quote: Alex777

In short - DBK is not a panacea for all problems.

Not everyone thinks so, who posted the material back in 2011:

Even during large-scale hostilities, large enemy ships will not appear in coastal waters, being substituted for a missile strike. The probability of this behavior is close to zero. The near sea blockade is a thing of the past. And it is possible to strike sea-based cruise missiles from a distance exceeding the firing range of the SCRC. Thus, it becomes clear that the invasion of large ships, aimed at defeating which are targeted by the Bal-U SCRC, will be carried out only after the destruction of the coastal defense by aviation precision weapons and cruise missiles.

https://topwar.ru/6994-protivokorabelnye-raketnye-kompleksy-chast-pervaya-na-zemle.html
I don’t even mention about the current coastal anti-ship missile systems, but in any case they are cheaper than ships.

Quote: Alex777

In our vast territory, separate zones are possible.

Do not invent - there are no zones on our territory that we could not hit with long-range aviation in 4-6 hours with non-nuclear cruise missiles. And most likely it will take even less time if the enemy’s preparations for landing in our territory are revealed in advance.

Quote: Alex777

This is, briefly, on the fingers.

In short, it would never occur to anyone to want to fight with Russia by conventional means, much less to try to seize our territory, realizing that in this case they are risking their country. So you need to really assess threats, and not suck them out of your finger, as you and authors like Timokhin do.

[Alex777]

They then envy. They have everything in order with the fleet.

Tell me how many AUGs are deployed in the USA today?
Can you answer without peeping on the Internet?

[lis-ik]

Quote: Alex777

They then envy. They have everything in order with the fleet.

Tell me how many AUGs are deployed in the USA today?
Can you answer without peeping on the Internet?

Without peeping about AUG I will not say for sure that I think there are problems. But what about the AUG? Can we count on ships of the first rank?

[Alex777]

Can we count on ships of the first rank?

I know their number. So here you will not surprise me.
And AUG they have deployed only 2. Considering Roosevelt AUG on which a third of the crew suffered from a coronavirus.
The rest are sky ready. And yes, everything is in order.
But from the constant patrolling of the Persian Gulf, they proceed to periodic visits. There is already not enough strength for another.
You can ask how many deck F / A-18s can fly into the air. Of the total. Discover interesting things.

[lis-ik]

Alexander. In my opinion, the ACG is good for countries with weak air defense and coastal defense. But!!! Imagine the situation in the conflict for the same Kuril Islands and the Far East as a whole. In the Asia-Pacific region, we cannot oppose anything except nuclear weapons.

[Alex777]

In my opinion, the ACG is good for countries with weak air defense and coastal defense.

So I understood correctly that you have nothing to do with the fleet?

Imagine the situation in the conflict for the same Kuril Islands and the Far East as a whole.

The Art of War by Sun Tzu:
"The rule of war is not to rely on the fact that the enemy will not come, but to rely on what I can meet him with; not to rely on the fact that he will not attack, but to rely on that I will make an attack on myself impossible for him. "
No matter how the Yankees set Yap, the Yap will not attack us. They know it and we know it. Why - I will not tell, do not exact.

[Alex777]

Here, read about AUG. The author is a very authoritative fellow at VO.
https://vz.ru/world/2020/5/5/1037804.html
From myself I will add that AUG is the main striking force of US NAVY. And not cruisers and destroyers.

[Season]

Why can't we? We can, and as we can. In case of unleashing a conflict for the Kuril Islands, the lifetime of the AUG is equal to the flight time of the "Dagger".

[Season]

it’s just that the Shtatovs have a complete disaster with the fleet.

[Alex777]

You don’t understand anything, but write. Come read.
This is one of our most authoritative resources about the army and navy.
There was no State Department nearby.

[Andobor]

Quote: Alex777

This is one of our most authoritative resources about the army and navy.

- Any authority under American control will inevitably begin to lie in their interests,
is an axiom.

[Alex777]

Not very sharp. I can only repeat - did not read, do not judge.
Otherwise, you will get into a mess.
Because you just signed for not being aware of livejournal in general, and about the blog bmpd in particular.
There is no American control there and never was.

[Non liberoid Russian]

you write from android or iphone or windows, through an import browser on the American internet ... dude, you are also under control, urgently get a foil hat

[Alex777]

It didn’t even occur to me.

[Quadro]

Quote: Not a liberoid Russian

you write from android or iphone or windows, through an import browser on the American internet ... dude, you are also under control, urgently get a foil hat

Since when is the Internet American ?! It ceased to be such a long time ago; formally, several years ago, it ceased to be such completely. In addition, variants of "networks" have been worked out in almost every more or less developed country. If he were American, we would all have shut our mouths.

[Alex777]

Blog bmpd is an unofficial and informal blog published under the auspices of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center).

The AST Center is an independent Russian research organization that studies a wide range of issues in the field of defense and security: the structure and condition of the armed forces of the countries of the world, the defense industry, and military-technical cooperation.

Founded in 1997, the AST Center provides informational, analytical, publishing and consulting services to government and commercial customers. The main products of the Center include the magazine “Arms Export” and the daily thematic media review “Periscope”. Since 2008, the preparation and publication of books has been carried out.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

The bmpd blog is an unofficial and informal blog published under the auspices of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center).

In Soviet times, there was a magazine "Ogonyok" edited by Korotich, so he also began with "good" ideas:

In contrast to Soviet journalism with its ideological comments, Korotich began to give as many facts and documents as possible in the journal. The magazine published articles on topical issues: about the trade mafia, a market economy, the development of cooperatives, reform of correctional labor institutions, cultural problems, etc. Together with Yegor Yakovlev, Moskovskiye Novosti, Ogonyok turned into one of the locomotives of glasnost. At the same time, the Order of Lenin disappeared from the cover, and the party organization of the magazine was dissolved. The circulation of the magazine under Korotich (1986-1991) has tripled - from 1,5 to 4,5 million.

And now everyone knows what this crook Korotich was leading to. So do not delude yourself with what is loudly called the "Center" - this does not mean anything yet. It's better to read the ZVO - there are more professional authors, I'm sure of that.

[Alex777]

What does Korotich have to do with it?
There is a resource that enjoys serious authority among all who are in the subject.
And you can listen to advice, or you can draw parallels by the ears.
Ultimately, you choose - the country is free.
Subject: I didn’t read it, but I condemn it - I have already grown a beard.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

There is a resource that enjoys serious authority among all who are in the subject.

Do you personally have any relation to the R&D of the Ministry of Defense or to the country's weapons programs in order to consider this resource as a determining direction for the development of equipment and weapons in our army or what will be promising from its weapons? Do not tell me the same thing with the authors of this resource.

Quote: Alex777

Ultimately, you choose - the country is free.

So I say that for those who seriously study equipment and weapons, it is better to focus on professional publications of the military-industrial complex or the Ministry of Defense, and not on some publications of specialists "a wide range of issues in the field of defense and security ".

Quote: Alex777

Subject: I didn’t read it, but I condemn it - I have already grown a beard.

In Rufit dofig what they write on military issues, so the opinion of a blogger from AST is not an indication that the author of LJ is a great specialist in armaments and military equipment.

[Alex777]

They make fun of your posts.
I just wanted to help.
Write on.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alex777

I just wanted to help.

I wonder what.

Quote: Alex777

Write on.

I will certainly take your advice.

Quote: Alex777

They make fun of your posts.

I am not surprised - there are many different amateurs here hanging around, but they do not determine what to laugh at.

[Quadro]

Quote: Alex777

They make fun of your posts.
I just wanted to help.
Write on.

And who is laughing? While your attempts to pass off someone's ZhZhshku as the ultimate truth are ridiculous. I have not read and do not judge. But the logic is simply ridiculous to me, and even with statements about the "authority" of the source.

[ccsr]

Quote: Quadro

While your attempts are ridiculous to give someone ZhZhshku for the truth of last resort.

I also wonder why such an advanced expert, as presented to us, is not published on the official websites of at least those publications that are known in Russia and in Russian, but use LJ for this. Obviously, in this case, this is due to the fact that not everyone will want to collaborate with such an author, so as not to risk their reputation.

Quote: Quadro

But the logic is simply ridiculous to me, and even with statements about the "authority" of the source.

This is generally enchanting - with the same success the resource "Military Parity" can be considered as the "official" site of the Ministry of Defense, because there they publish information materials that appear in various media about the life of our armed forces.

[ApJlekuHo]

Recently, articles on VO have been placed in the headline.

[Dym71]

Quote: ApJlekuHo

Recently, articles on VO have been placed in the headline.

Would you like to give an example?

[Motorist]

This was probably a hyperbole (not a curve, but an artistic exaggeration).

[Insurgent]

Quote: ApJlekuHo

Recently, articles on VO have been placed in the headline.

Let it be better than reading opus-footcloths from a pile of words ...

This article on informativeness, of course, is also not ice, but in any case at least briefly ...

[sergo1914]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

Why read something?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: sergo1914

Why read something?

In theory, you first need to read, then think about it if you have interesting information or just a motivated opinion to express it in a comment. 2 minutes for all this is really fast.

[avg]

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

And here I’ve carefully worked out the article but still didn’t understand why it came from that:

The new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral

Even the layout looked. What I agree with is that:

when they are created, the short-term experience that the Russians acquired from the French under the contract for the supply of Mistrals will undoubtedly come in handy

But it would be really foolish not to use it. And so, just another important pout.

[Svarog]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Have you read the article in 2 minutes?

There "10 lines" of it and in a minute you can read

[NordUral]

Diagonally, since there is nothing to read especially.

[Vicontas]

As Deng Xiao Ping used to say - "It doesn't matter what color the cat is - the important thing is how it can catch mice!" The first Russian tanks were copies of Renault and Vickers (BT series). But today the Russian tank school is considered one of the best in the world! It can be the same with ships.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Vicontas

As Deng Xiao Ping used to say - "It doesn't matter what color the cat is - the important thing is how it can catch mice!" The first Russian tanks were copies of Renault and ”Vickers” (BT series). But today the Russian tank school is considered one of the best in the world! It can also be with ships.

Hm? BT - tracing-paper from tanks of the American designer Christie!
Regards, Kote!

[Vicontas]

I agree! I'm sorry! Vickers is a T-26. Sikilerosis tortured!

[Pvi1206]

will help revive shipbuilding ... but there is application ...

[Rudkovsky]

It will be funny to see how many times the domestic UDC will be more expensive than the French counterpart, well, just check out the volume of kickbacks on the military. My rate is 6 times more expensive by the end of construction.

[ccsr]

Quote: Rudkovsky

It will be funny to see how many times the domestic UDC will be more expensive than the French counterpart, well, just check out the volume of kickbacks on the military.

It's funny to look at an eccentric who thinks we are building a copy of the Mistral.

Quote: Rudkovsky

My rate is 6 times more expensive by the end of construction.

Eat the "newspaper" if it is not so? I think by that time you are unlikely to be writing anything else here.

[Rudkovsky]

First, where did I write "copy"? Keep your fantasies to yourself. And secondly, do you have any doubts that our UDC will be analogues of the French UDC? And thirdly, my rate is still 6 times. They will immediately overstate the price 2-3 times, and then they will throw in little things during the long construction.

[ccsr]

Quote: Rudkovsky

First, where did I write "copy"? Keep your fantasies to yourself.

Why then compare the price? It can be compared with the release of the same equipment, but you do not know either the Mistral configuration or the UDC. Did they take numbers from the ceiling?

Quote: Rudkovsky

And secondly, do you have doubts that our UDC will be analogues of the French UDC?

Of course, at least for the weapons and military equipment that will be installed on it.

Quote: Rudkovsky

And thirdly, my rate is still 6 times.

Why not 10 times?

Quote: Rudkovsky

2-3 times immediately increase the price,

Who will give them that kind of money, if they do not justify it, due to which the price has risen. Go to any car dealership and try to compare the car in the minimum configuration and with what the salon can offer to the maximum - the difference can reach 1,5-1,8 times.

[NordUral]

Those who minus - why do you need them? Will you sail away on our "mistrals" to the distant shores to land for the interests of the oligarchs?
They are not needed for the defense of the Motherland, a waste of money. And he still needs a lot of things, which is unlikely to be done.

[Non liberoid Russian]

why did they build 1123 projects during the union?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Also me, discovered America through the window ..

[Invoce]

The author assumes that the new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral, which our country planned to acquire six years ago, but due to the sanctions imposed, the contract was terminated and the deal did not take place.

As can be assumed and predicted that is not yet even in the drawings. A task was formed for the design and manufacture of 2 UDC. NW in Kerch was appointed as the parent company. That's all for now

[Yaro Polk]

The West in the 21st century has discovered a new geometric shape "rectangular" box, which corresponds to all helicopter carriers

[sergo1914]

Quote: Yaro Polk

The West in the 21st century has discovered a new geometric shape "rectangular" box, which corresponds to all helicopter carriers

Well, you don’t need to disclose military secrets in open sources. Now they will come from the First Division and put you in jail. 20 years.

[alone]

There are no drawings, all the more so, but it looks like the Mistral ...

[Doccor18]

A manic desire to build a UDC with the complete absence of modern naval submarines with VNEU, destroyers, aircraft carriers, mine action weapons, anti-submarine aircraft, and much more, without which the fleet cannot be considered a multi-purpose combat system. But we need UDC and a point! If not Mistral, then we’ll build our own.

[alstr]

Yes, okay, ships. And where do we have the built infrastructure for these ships?
Again on barrels will the resource be burned?

[NordUral]

The main thing is to crow and cut the budget. And then on the hajj Nasreddin.

[mark1]

Quote: NordUral

The main thing is to crow

Yes - this is the main thing ... this is the main thing ...

[Interlocutor]

A. And here everything is bad. Space is bad with you. We want to build ships again, we’re sawing a budget. You don’t have to cry anymore. You close Facebook and the war will end immediately. And nobody crowes, but plans and increases the country's combat effectiveness.

[NordUral]

Naturally, they increase ... But I do not use facebook, like the others, only in.
And then, not space is bad. And not the ships. And all that is how it is in the country.

[NordUral]

How simple it is, Andobor.

[Non liberoid Russian]

judging by the minuses, it’s not very crowing ... train better

[NordUral]

Not Russian liberoid, I do not crow. Yes, and the balance of the pros and cons is all right with me.

[novel66]

but here I agree! still no one will give a clear fucking answer? but you must!

[ccsr]

Quote: Doccor18

But we need UDC and a point! If not Mistral, then we’ll build our own.

I already said that it was necessary to somehow justify the idiocy of the procurement of the Mistral, so they made a decision about the construction of the UDC with us, which is generally not so bad. As far as I understand the thoughts of our naval commanders (in my interpretation), they refuse to build traditional landing ships in principle, and two UDCs in the first series will be built to replace them. How things will go further in this direction, we will really see after the first ship is put into service and at least a couple of trips to different seas are carried out. And then it becomes clear the prospects of this direction of development of warships.

[Doccor18]

To abandon the classic BDK for Russia would be madness. How in the Far East can one brave UDC solve all problems and tasks? Even in peacetime, the navel will untie. And in the military ... he will be drowned first. Our fleet is simply obliged to have several BDKs on each of the fleets. And UDC is more about projecting power on distant countries, as its main task. They are big, expensive, piece. It is very doubtful that our fleet will have more than 4 such ships.

[ccsr]

Quote: Doccor18

To abandon the classic BDK for Russia would be madness.

Neither you nor I have anything to do with the admiral's offices, which is why we do not know their train of thought. But judging by the story with the Gren, I can conclude that the classic landing ships will be abandoned.

Quote: Doccor18

How in the Far East can one brave UDC solve all problems and tasks?

And what is there to decide if the war there can only be strategic, given our two main opponents in that theater of operations - the United States and China. Everything else is being swept away.

Quote: Doccor18

And in the military ... he will be drowned first.

Like the entire surface fleet in the event of a nuclear war.

Quote: Doccor18

And UDC is more about projecting power on distant countries, as its main task.

This is exactly what our commanders see in the future, judging by Syria. As an option, I can assume that we will begin to push our interests in Africa, and such a ship, accompanied by warships, will wean us from arresting our ships in foreign seas or supporting a legitimate government. Although I do not like this scenario.

Quote: Doccor18

They are big, expensive, piece.

I agree, but still much cheaper than aircraft carriers.

[Doccor18]

But judging by the story with the Gren, I can conclude that the classic landing ships will be abandoned.

Of course they refuse, you have to be simpler. BDK is the workhorse of the fleet, and in Grena they decided to cross the mixture of tiger and quivering doe. It turned out expensive, difficult and very long.

And what is there to decide if the war there can only be strategic, given our two main opponents in that theater of operations - the United States and China. Everything else is being swept away.

Let me disagree with this. The Japanese may well jump under the approving glances from across the ocean. And a vigorous loaf will be useless. Again, as in 1945 it would be necessary to manually clean the islands of this infection.

I agree, but still much cheaper than aircraft carriers.

Still .... However, I repeat, having so many unresolved tasks in the fleet, to throw such expensive and long-playing adventures with the UDC, to put it mildly, prematurely, or even criminally.

[ccsr]

Quote: Doccor18

It turned out expensive, difficult and very long.

I think that’s why they switched to UDC.

Quote: Doccor18

The Japanese may well jump under the approving glances from across the ocean.

This is out of the question, believe me - after the Second World War they will no longer experience the patience of a nuclear power, and any of their campaigns will end immediately after entering our territory.

Quote: Doccor18

Still .... However, I repeat, having so many unresolved tasks in the fleet, to throw such expensive and long-playing adventures with the UDC, to put it mildly, prematurely, or even criminally.

If you are aware, then in Soviet times there was a hidden struggle in the navy who will be in charge - I found it, although I know about it indirectly, from the history of the Ural. I think that there is some tug of war going on now, and the main focus of the naval is how to capture the imagination of the supreme and minister. Fortunately, both of them are not military people, and you can sell them beautiful pictures from the future, so the UDC won - apparently it was better advertised.

[NordUral]

And UDC is more about projecting power on distant countries, as its main task.

Why do we need this projection?

[Doccor18]

You know my opinion on this subject. However, we have been advised by pseudo-patriots on a dozen or two of the minuses.

[NordUral]

Yes, let them put it. The main thing is that at the top, at least from a sense of self-preservation, they think before making important decisions on weapons.

[svp67]

Their appearance is suspiciously reminiscent of the French Mistral helicopter carriers.

And the main thing is that this conclusion is based on a certain photo, where Putin is shown one of the UDC projects.
Here in front of the Old Man climbs into the hell ...
Soon they will show how they are laid, and there we will compare their appearance with the Mistrals, one thing I will say is that it is unlikely that there will be 100% copying, for the same hull, if only due to the fact that our ships have requirements for walking in ice.
And if "Mistral" had to be strengthened, then this will immediately be included in the project

[Alex777]

The photo shown to Putin already shows that the pipes are 2 groups, and not 1, as on the Mistral.
This is a big difference in propulsion.

[ApJlekuHo]

David Ex refers to Russian author of Livejournal, who has nickname bmpd

Well, if you refer to a scribe from LJ who is not known to anyone, then it is completely clear that the UDC was simply stolen from progressive phrases, especially since in Russia, shipbuilding was always at zero, in comparison with them.
And whatever they say, it is better when the UDC is there than it is not, but it was needed.

[seregin-s1]

You would first go to the blog. looked ......

[ApJlekuHo]

I have only one thing that this subject broadcasts in LiveJournal.

[seregin-s1]

A lot of news here is taken from bmpd. By the way, today there is a detailed article about new purchases of the Su-34.

[ApJlekuHo]

A lot of news here is taken from bmpd

VO is by no means a news portal; I don’t go here to read the latest news. To do this, there are much more operational and deployed resources. And the fact that bmpd, like VO, uses official sources for its blogs, does not surprise me. It amazes me why you decided that VO takes materials from bmpd blogs, as from the source?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

The bmpd blog is an unofficial and informal blog published under the auspices of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center). And this is a fairly serious structure in the world of military analytics.

[ApJlekuHo]

Not only is the blog uncontrollable, but the organization itself is not state-owned.

The AST Center publishes key results of its activities in the journal “Arms Export”, which it has been publishing since its foundation. In 2007, the magazine received the Golden Idea Award, established by the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of the Russian Federation, in the nomination For Informational Support for the Export of Military Products.

As I understand it, they are selling weapons, a serious organization can not be said.

[Alex777]

Straight Porthos some.
I fight because I fight?

[Evil 55]

What does it have to do with it, it doesn’t look like .. The laws of hydraulics, movements in the aquatic environment and the analysis of the current state of the art imply the presence of similar structures ..

[Atlant-1164]

"Their appearance is suspiciously reminiscent of the French Mistral helicopter carriers."
- pay 1.2 billion dollars. And still suspiciously ??)

[Piramidon]

Their appearance is suspiciously reminiscent of the French Mistral helicopter carriers

I wonder where he saw this "appearance" if there is still only an order?

[novel66]

I will reveal a secret! in the era of computer modeling and design, similar tasks lead to similar solutions. I think all UDC are similar

[Zaurbek]

The important thing is simply the fact of building a large ship ..... modern in addition. There are missile systems and radars in production ... but there are no necessary compensation bodies with a motor!

[NF68]

And when would the Russians have time to copy it? Did they have all the necessary documentation?

[Operator]

Obuli Loshar the Frogs

[Alex777]

They handed over all the contract documentation.
Therefore, stupid people are indignant, but the French are not.

[Ryaruav]

so what if the mistral is taken as the basis? firstly, we also put our hands on the design there, and secondly, we don’t have to pay so much attention to the yapping of western lapdogs

[Fitter65]

The author suggests that the new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral,

At one time, the Americans said that our MiG-25 was copied from their North American A-5 Vigilante ...

[IL-64]

And what is wrong? In vain did they give us technical documentation when the contract was broken?

[Interlocutor]

If I am not mistaken, then we seem to have done one of the halves of Mistral at our factory. But I could be wrong.

[siemens7774]

Well, how can one be mistaken in such important things? The press and all military blogs buzzed all ears about this

[Radical]

A look from the West: The new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral

There is no ship yet, but we have already spotted from whom it was copied. Clowns

[Graz]

Well, we bought technical documentation from them officially, what are the claims?

[Russobel]

Look, the Chinese have copied and done so fast, so it’s time for us to slam something, maybe we can build the UDC faster?

[Evgeny Velikanov]

but no matter how no one hides. And after the break, it was clear that ours would make our "mistral" We still have the documentation

Why is this captainhood?

[magadan72]

The construction of a helicopter carrier-copy of the "Mistral" is undoubtedly a useful thing. After all, we probably have some of the construction documents and drawings, and this will greatly reduce the cost of construction. Only the choice of the place of construction is strange - Kerch ??? After all, the stern part of one of the helicopter carriers was built in St. Petersburg! (Almost a third of the hull), and this is a fairly technological part: a ramp, a docking camera, azipods or their place ... And the competence in ship repair is much higher .. The shipyard is loaded so really there is no way to build - or play a powerful lobby in Kerch! ??? The desire to provide Crimea with work is understandable,
but a helicopter carrier is not a private motor ship of a commercial company, for the duration and cost of construction of which for the most part everyone does not care. Kerch has not built such sophisticated ships for a long time that it will obviously delay the construction, which will wildly increase the astronomical value ...
And helicopter carriers are needed even "yesterday". And we are building for the budget, that is, our money, especially in such a difficult time!

[LeonidL]

You can build a stern, but there is nowhere to build a UDC. And it is unlikely that these will be copies of the "mistrals" - this is a typical "colonial" UDC - an unsuccessful project for Russia, the brainchild of Serdyukov and Medvedev ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

"colonial" UDC - an unsuccessful project for Russia, the brainchild of Serdyukov and Medvedev

How is he unsuccessful?

[LeonidL]

This is a slow-moving, almost unarmed barge with a huge sail area and, in the opinion of many, an unsuccessful propulsion system. such a UDC can successfully solve police issues, without opposition to deliver troops to the shores of Africa, for example. For the Northern Fleet (ice conditions, sailing conditions, habitat, etc.) and TF, due to limited seaworthiness (tsunamis, typhoons, storms) and lack of weapons, it is not very suitable, it is practically useless on the Baltic Fleet (purely quiet target), on the Black Sea Fleet it is limited, as a participant " the Syrian "express" - again, there is not enough speed and the means of loading / unloading. A lot has been written about this and in detail even when they were being built for the Russian Federation. As part of the AUG / KUG with its own propellant at the level of transports, it will slow down everyone, air defense / missile defense and PLO ships are required for escorting ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

This is a low-speed, almost unarmed barge with a huge sail and, according to many, an unsuccessful propulsion system.

Our UDC just should have been distinguished from the French by the presence of weapons, and we will make our own all the more armed.

About sailing and the propulsion system - this is generally nonsense.

UDC can successfully solve police issues, without opposing delivering troops to the shores of Africa, for example. For the Northern Fleet (ice conditions, swimming, living conditions, etc.) and the TF for limited seaworthiness (tsunamis, typhoons, storms)

The UDCs were planned to be used as the headquarters of the KMG, helicopter carriers (up to 20 Ka-52 helicopters, and others), hospitals, and airborne transport to the Black Sea Fleet and Pacific Fleet. And the UDK landing force is not landed alone, but as part of the KMG, after the coastal defense of the enemy is crushed to dust.

Regarding the Syrian Express, it’s also stupid, such ships charter there that they are several orders of magnitude higher than the UDC and in speed and capacity.

No need to write any nonsense about the ice situation, tsunamis, typhoons, sailing. UDC is 25 displacement, such ships are used by the USA and NATO countries and nothing, nobody ran into the glacier and didn’t drown from the storm.

On the Northern Fleet they use practically the same ships as on other fleets the same BDK pr.775 and pr.11711 and nothing prevents neither the ice situation nor the storm.

As part of the AUG / KUG with its own progress at the level of transports, everyone will slow down

UDC and USA "America" ​​and Spain "Juan Carlos" and France "Mistrals" all have a speed in the region of 20 knots and somehow succeed.

[LeonidL]

This is your personal opinion, but I can say in response that it reminds me of your favorite word "nonsense".

[Interlocutor]

We don’t have to wander across the ocean. And to the same Syria, there are different cargoes to transport - just that (just kidding). Normal ship for inland seas. Such ships do not stagger alone. Somewhere I saw a U.S. aircraft carrier doing U-turns. It looks good ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

I think that the construction of the UDC will not be left to chance, if necessary, they will be sent to Kerch and specialists will be sent and the entire production process will be adjusted.

They built UDC in Kerch or didn’t build it doesn’t matter, it is necessary to start.

And now the Baltic Plant is building nuclear icebreakers, they are not sitting idle.

And helicopter carriers are needed even "yesterday." And we build for budgetary ones, that is, our money is

All this budget money will be spent on materials, assemblies and the work of Russian enterprises and Russian workers, that is, in essence, they will work for our economy. Part of the money will be returned to the budget in the form of taxes, and as a matter of fact, the UDC will come to us much cheaper than the declared value and especially if we buy the same abroad.

Well, and then, UDC should have been no one arguing with us before, but we need to soberly assess our capabilities.

[Interlocutor]

Only here is the strange choice of place of construction-Kerch ??? Indeed, in St. Petersburg the aft part of one of the helicopter carriers was built! (Almost a third of the hull), and this is a fairly technological part: a ramp, a docking chamber, azipods or their place ... And the competencies in ship repair are much higher .. The shipyard is loaded so really there is no way to build- or play a powerful lobby at Kerch! ???

Perhaps everything looks different. Perhaps this is not an urgent task and under this business in a new place, in a strategically important one, a new infrastructure will be prepared for serious ships.
Specialists with great pleasure)))) slide into the Crimea to work and live, and possibly for permanent residence. So to speak, to convey experience and glorify the glory of Russian shipbuilding. And this is good.
And St. Petersburg shipyards are probably busy with affairs without these long-term construction projects. There probably will still have to deal with engines. I think it will be in time. And the technology will work out and the masters will be trained.

[iouris]

Copy the AK-47 and take it easy. Or start a civil war rather.

[Terenin]

Right. Everything is sure to look like something .
The main thing is the functional

[LeonidL]

He suggests that they assume that those who were about to build ... nothing has been decided yet and is not reliably known. But the storm in the glass is already raised.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The Russian Federation ordered the construction of two universal landing ships (UDC) in Kerch at the Zaliv shipyard. Their appearance is suspiciously reminiscent of the French Mistral helicopter carriers.

The handsome men are our shipbuilders.

[Black Colonel]

"draws attention to the significant similarity of the new Russian ship with the French landing helicopter carrier."
And what? The laws of hydrodynamics are the same for everyone. All helicopter pilots should (should?) Have a take-off deck, hangars inside the ship's hull. What is the problem? Looks like it? Looks like it! In vain, INTO eh, the plunge pools steamed brains with "selling-not-selling"? Moreover, half of the hull for that order was manufactured at Russian shipyards. So everything is legal, Russia is not trembling ...

[Ovsigovets]

again an article from the category of "Captain Evidence" ....... NEWS what is it about? Looks like ?! - YES - yes, and heg with him ...... DOESN'T LIKE ?! - YES - yes, and go with him .... Have you received documentation and technologies from the Mistrals? Do you have any experience? Yes / No - use, build. MAIN IMPORTANT build normal ships. Something "the voice of the USA" is somehow becoming not so much quieter .... more meaningless or something

[Yellow bubble]

Russia has the technology to build nuclear ships, it can build a trough itself. The construction of the Mistrals is a bribe to Serdyukov.

[vkd.dvk]

And what, do the French have a patent for the form and decoration (sample), and the construction of SIMILAR is a violation of copyright? What the heck? Everywhere and everywhere they copy a construct with the name WHEEL, and, such creatures, they do not think to salivate interest to the author. And for the three-phase network, invented by the Russian Dolivo-Dobrovolsky, for the gas mask - Mendeleev, for electric welding - Petrov, for television - Zvorykin, for radio Popov, for stealth-Ufimtsev technology, and much more like that .....

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: magadan72

The construction of a helicopter carrier-copy of the "Mistral" is undoubtedly a useful thing. After all, we probably have some of the construction documents and drawings, and this will greatly reduce the cost of construction. Only the choice of the place of construction is strange - Kerch ??? After all, the stern part of one of the helicopter carriers was built in St. Petersburg! (Almost a third of the hull), and this is a fairly technological part: a ramp, a docking camera, azipods or their place ... And the competence in ship repair is much higher .. The shipyard is loaded so really there is no way to build - or play a powerful lobby in Kerch! ??? The desire to provide Crimea with work is understandable,
but a helicopter carrier is not a private motor ship of a commercial company, for the duration and cost of construction of which for the most part everyone does not care. Kerch has not built such sophisticated ships for a long time that it will obviously delay the construction, which will wildly increase the astronomical value ...
And helicopter carriers are needed even "yesterday". And we are building for the budget, that is, our money, especially in such a difficult time!

And didn’t think that the Petersburgers were busy with other orders? And what does shipbuilding need to be developed there, and wherever it has access to the sea? What doldon, having no idea?

[Nikolai Redko]

I noticed only one thing in common between the Mistrals and the Priboi project of the Russian landing ship - they are helicopter carriers !!! You can't argue that it is. The rest has nothing to do.

[petrol cutter]

It would be strange if the ships would look different.
They go on the idea of ​​the same project.
Amazing After all, the truth ?!
And what is surprising here? For some reason, the terms of reference were given to France,
Done project / steamboats built on time.
Here, one time! We will not give up the steamers! Bye, bye! Koronavirsom - do not be sick! ..
Our figures scratched their turnips in their backs, and came to the only correct conclusion ... We must build a mlyn at home! ...

But where?
In Kerch, it was wisely deceived and the Politburo set the right path.
And this is absolutely the right decision.
Where to get the motors on them? ...
This is a completely different meeting of the Politburo.
By the way, the people asked where are our UDC?
Our UDC is at work.
People are dealing with the issue.

[petrol cutter]

Not interested. For half an hour I stated my thoughts endlessly, on paper open spaces. (To the site administrators .... Etc.)
Plus the Internet is crested. This is the sixth year of living in ....

[Adimius38]

there is nothing suspicious, if I'm not mistaken we got all the necessary technical documentation on the Mistrals. Of course, we adjusted the project to fit your requirements, increased the tonnage, made it wider and bigger. Our Mistral should be much more effective than his French counterpart

[Alexey Kurtov]

Well, even if you copied it? What the trouble? Yes, at least copy "Nimitz"! The main thing is the money will be inside Russia.

[av58]

Even if the Russian UDC in some part was copied from Mistral, what is the problem?

[Saints]

In one time period with approximately the same technologies, for specific helicopters, why should something else happen ??? It’s like everyone’s planes and most cars are on round wheels.

[rumpeljschtizhen]

In conditions when there is no intelligible policy, the construction of the fleet ... the discussion is bad or good that we decided to design it and once build a fishing ........ It does not make sense .... This is already a half-life .... When there are misunderstandings what and why do we need .... Separate ships without a CLEAR structure .... Fleet (and everything else) ... Profanity and type of activity .... I repeat no, we don’t see what kind of fleet and army should be ... Military science has died

[Signore Tomato]

Yeah, and also Russian UDCs are like an aircraft carrier, because it has take-off sites. They look like a submarine, because it has a propeller, which is under water. And a lot of what else they look like.
DB (S. Lavrov)

[Intigam Akperov]

Something reminds me very much that I saw exactly the same jacket on Comrade Shpak. Where did you get it? - From there, I am a famous artist of the Bolshoi and Maly theaters. Ugh on you. - And yet, you have not answered my question. - Ugh on you again. ("Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession).

[ruivit1988]

I don’t understand how this whole screech is. Well, it looks like, even if someone was plagiarized, the main thing is that it will be built by us, brought to mind and will remain with us.

[xomaNN]

It was paid for the technical documentation of the Mistrals, so it is necessary to use it creatively. And Baltzavod then made feed sections for the Franks. Skills and technologies must be used in Kerch. Moreover, the UDC is good if it repeats the Mistral by 60-70%. And so - our project on the basis of francs will initially be built according to the requirements of the customers of the Russian Navy, and not "tweak"

[Falcon iba]

Nothing unusual, the F-35 was also torn from our yak. If there is infa is silly not to use.

[Alexander Barinov]

You know that during the trip "there are no ugly women, there is little vodka ..." - this is for all kinds of Forbes. Let them save Ukraine *, that is, the local slutty girls.

[TermNachTer]

If it looks like a "mistral", then it is heavily revised, according to the standards of military shipbuilding.

[Put__NIK]

Similar? Of course. And what about the two ship's noses we have welded for their Mistral and taken back? Correctly. To add to ours and what would coincide means and reciprocal parts should match under French.

[Kuzmitsky]

And rightly so, do not cut it to metal! And the external similarity does not surprise .. You never know if there are similar models of equipment created independently of each other. If there were real claims and suspicions, the French, not the Americans, would be indignant.

[dima314]

The author assumes that the new Russian UDC is copied from the French Mistral - some kind of journalist blurted out something, and another nimble section of the topic and more than 150 comments blowing on a soap bubble)

[alexey alexeyev_2]

So what if they are similar. The French Mistrals for Russia were half built in Russia. It seems the feed for both was built at a Russian factory. Yes, and the filling was all Russian. The French only assembly

[georggy]

If it seems, let them be baptized.