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In Russia, they are testing a new version of the Coalition-SV howitzer

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The new version of the Coalition-SV self-propelled howitzer is tested on a different type of chassis. Its developer is the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik", which is part of the Uralvagonzavod concern of the Rostec state corporation.


This was reported to the Zvezda channel by the head of the department of Burevestnik JSC Vasily Nabatov.

Now, along with the Coalition-SV self-propelled howitzer, its wheeled version has also appeared. Now they are testing her small series. They are carried out at a training ground in the Nizhny Novgorod region.

Howitzer "Coalition-SV" has a gun caliber of 152 mm. As a chassis for new equipment use the KamAZ-6550 car.

The caterpillar version of this self-propelled howitzer entered the army only this year. But for the first time this technique was demonstrated at the Victory Parade in 2015.

According to Vasily Nabatov, wheeled Coalition-CB2 has several advantages over caterpillar equipment. It is more mobile and able to travel on ordinary public roads. In addition, a self-propelled howitzer based on the KamAZ car has a greater resource than the tracked version.

Highly appreciated the new technology commander in chief of the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation Oleg Salyukov. He believes that in its combat characteristics it is significantly superior to other domestic and foreign counterparts.
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  1. Carnifexx
    Carnifexx 26 May 2020 11: 27 New
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    mmm ... howitzer on a wheeled chassis
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 May 2020 11: 43 New
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      Quote: Carnifexx
      mmm ... howitzer on a wheeled chassis

      in the Coalition on a caterpillar chassis, the crew (mechanic, commander, gunner) is in the control compartment in an armored corps.

      Here the driver is open to everyone, I wonder where the commander and gunner are
      1. Carnifexx
        Carnifexx 26 May 2020 11: 45 New
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        Yes, and on wheels it’s faster and cheaper, you can quickly change position and have less chance of getting a return fire - the same land mines that the tracked platform can’t stand with a direct hit
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 26 May 2020 13: 18 New
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          Quote: Carnifexx
          Yes, and on wheels faster and cheaper, you can change position faster

          That is unlikely...
          For you, judging by everything that has never changed its position, being, as they used to say, “under the banners” of the Armed Forces, a simple question: why does heavy armored vehicles use tracked chassis everywhere?
          Yes, because in conditions of complete impassability, i.e. in the field, the caterpillar will "change position" much faster. Although not cheaper, it is more passable and better protected.
          But if you already use a wheeled platform for armament, then not a truck, albeit with increased cross-country ability, but a special wheeled chassis like BAZ or MZKT. As already done in the coast of artillery in the complex Coast. It has its own specifics, it requires rapid advance to the coast along the roads to a pre-prepared firing position, the use of a wheeled chassis is justified.
          1. Interlocutor
            Interlocutor 26 May 2020 13: 52 New
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            This option is likely to be exported primarily.
          2. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 27 May 2020 15: 31 New
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            You forget about exporting to Africa and Asia. These guys are fighting along the roads and the gun on the truck is the best choice.
            And for us in peacetime, the cargo option is far from superfluous.
            So, let there be enough Coalitions, good and different
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 26 May 2020 13: 37 New
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          Quote: Carnifexx
          Yes, and on wheels faster and cheaper, you can change position faster

          And to collapse on one side, as the armor does on the Kamaz chassis.
          The chassis from the BAZ would be where to place.
          1. loki565
            loki565 26 May 2020 16: 35 New
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            There is alignment like any crane, if the crane does not turn over then this pepelats will not turn over. And so some depend on the drove and the tank manages to turn over.
          2. Ros 56
            Ros 56 26 May 2020 17: 00 New
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            Well, if gouging in the cabin, nothing will save him. Admire:
            1. Private-K
              Private-K 27 May 2020 07: 44 New
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              Why immediately "gouging"? Dashingness? Yes. Simply young guys wanting Speed ​​and having technology that can give Speed.
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 27 May 2020 13: 53 New
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                Quote: Private-K
                Just young guys who want Speed ​​and the availability of technology that can give Speed.

                Though young, though not, one must think with one's head before doing something. Dashing can only be justified in an emergency.
              2. Ros 56
                Ros 56 27 May 2020 17: 10 New
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                Speed ​​is needed when catching fleas and when fleeing a lover’s husband, but you must handle the equipment, it’s not a crowbar.
          3. Piramidon
            Piramidon 26 May 2020 17: 05 New
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            Quote: Bad_gr
            There is alignment like any crane, if the crane does not turn over then this pepelats will not turn over.

            It is, of course. But how long does it take to prepare the crane for work? In order to push and lower the outriggers, and then collapse them, you need TIME, and for self-propelled guns this time is very limited. You need to have time to shoot back and shed until you have covered the position.
            1. loki565
              loki565 26 May 2020 17: 50 New
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              ARCHER takes 30 seconds to do this, during which time he makes a geo-referencing and aiming. It can also leave a firing point before its first shell reaches its target.
            2. venik
              venik 26 May 2020 21: 03 New
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              Quote: Piramidon
              It takes TIME to push and lower the outriggers, and then collapse them

              ==========
              HOW MUCH? Minute, 30 seconds ???
              And now - think THAT is faster and HOW big the boundary is:
              - remove the outriggers while laying the implement in the stowed position (on a wheeled chassis)?
              - put the gun in the stowed position (on the tracked chassis)?
              - bring to the stowed position and attach the towed gun to the tractor?
              Let me tell you: in the first two cases - the difference is SMALL (from the word ABSOLUTELY)!
            3. Jager
              Jager 27 May 2020 16: 46 New
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              Outriggers on some Japanese cranes extend and center automatically.
        3. Bobrick
          Bobrick 27 May 2020 18: 50 New
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          Yeah, about as fast as a truck crane and about as reliable.

          Outrigger installation time is no less than the deployment time of a conventional towed gun.
          While you check the density of the soil, assess the slope of the surface, install the supports, level the machine so that it does not collapse when fired, while in winter everything will be even worse.

          The complex itself has a mass of about 28 tons (by analogy with the R-431AM), which, as it were, the weight of a loaded truck, on the roads, even the presence of 4 driving axles does not save at all.
          Off-road speed is lower than that of a tracked chassis.

          So what are the advantages, in addition to price and speed on public roads, or is it originally designed for a theater that does not quite correspond to the European part of Russia?
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 May 2020 12: 59 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        I wonder where the commander and gunner are located

        But will there be no place in the tower for them?
        1. Andrey Ostroushko
          Andrey Ostroushko 26 May 2020 16: 44 New
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          So the tower is not inhabited. This is the Coalition.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 26 May 2020 17: 11 New
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            Quote: Andrey Ostroushko
            So the tower is not inhabited. This is the Coalition.

            I’m neither an artilleryman nor a tanker, but simply asked, “for general development,” but the minusers did not miss their chance.
      3. mark1
        mark1 26 May 2020 13: 21 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        I wonder where the commander and gunner are located

        They follow each on his "Chevrolet Niva" as the right guys.
      4. loki565
        loki565 26 May 2020 16: 31 New
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        Here the driver is open to everything

        And the cabin is armored
      5. maykl8
        maykl8 26 May 2020 20: 48 New
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        Coalition-CB2 will go into service with individual artillery brigades. The distance from the front edge of the firing positions of these brigades is 8-10 km. At such a distance, maneuverability is really more important than armor.
        1. Clone
          Clone 26 May 2020 22: 56 New
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          Quote: maykl8
          from the front edge of the firing positions of these brigades - 8-10 km. At such a distance, maneuverability is really more important than armor.

          "Coalition-SV" - the Russian 152-mm interspecific artillery complex ... army artillery with a maximum firing range of up to 80 km, maximum ammunition load up to 70 rounds ...
          With the indicated firing range, the presence of this system at a distance of 8-10 km from the front edge? But regimental and divisional artillery should be brought to direct fire? I’m generally silent about the battalion unit ... they’ll probably bury it right away as needed.
          1. maykl8
            maykl8 28 May 2020 22: 16 New
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            Battalion artillery - 500-1000m
            PAG - regiment artillery group - 4-6 km
            DAG - divisional artillery group - 6-8 km
            AAG - Army Artillery Group - 8-10 km
            If the army develops, there will be such a cramped situation that the shell will have nowhere to fall

            PS. And about the range, do not flatter yourself. The greater the range, the higher the dispersion, and therefore the consumption of shells on the target. The railroad will have to be fired. Calculations will fall down and anyway the necessary expenditure on the Goal cannot be laid out.
    2. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2020 11: 53 New
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      Quote: Carnifexx
      mmm ... howitzer on a wheeled chassis

      Well, to be precise, the howitzer gun. And what is surprising then? In many armies of the world they are already in service.
      Quote: Carnifexx
      the same landmines that the tracked platform can’t stand with a direct hit
      It seems to me that with a direct hit of a land mine from the wheeled version, little will be left at all ...
      1. Carnifexx
        Carnifexx 26 May 2020 12: 46 New
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        I was not surprised.
        Yes, with a direct hit of a landmine in a wheeled howitzer, it will be destroyed like a tracked one, and if you can’t see the difference, then why ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 26 May 2020 12: 48 New
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          Quote: Carnifexx
          Yes, with a direct hit of a landmine in a wheeled howitzer, it will be destroyed like a tracked one, and if you can’t see the difference, then why ...

          For the price of two tracked, you can build three wheeled. But at the price of operation, one self-propelled somewhere three or four wheeled
          1. Carnifexx
            Carnifexx 26 May 2020 12: 49 New
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            Homer and I are about the same
          2. bk0010
            bk0010 26 May 2020 14: 13 New
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            Quote: svp67
            For the price of two tracked, you can build three wheeled.
            Sorry, are you sure? The coalition is very expensive, it is unlikely that the use of the chassis from the T-90 can fundamentally affect its cost.
            1. svp67
              svp67 26 May 2020 14: 43 New
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              Quote: bk0010
              The coalition is very expensive, it is unlikely that the use of the chassis from the T-90 can fundamentally affect its cost.

              Maybe, how else can ... the price of a tracked armored base chassis is much more expensive than a wheeled
            2. loki565
              loki565 26 May 2020 16: 45 New
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              The coalition is very expensive, it is unlikely that the use of the chassis from the T-90 can fundamentally affect its cost.

              The 8X8 Kakmaz chassis costs 6 Lyamas, and the T90 tank costs 120 Lyamas, even if you take one chassis it will cost 50 Lyamas, plus expensive operation.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 26 May 2020 16: 58 New
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                Quote: loki565
                The coalition is very expensive, it is unlikely that the use of the chassis from the T-90 can fundamentally affect its cost.

                The 8X8 Kakmaz chassis costs 6 Lyamas, and the T90 tank costs 120 Lyamas, even if you take one chassis it will cost 50 Lyamas, plus expensive operation.

                am How can I sometimes get such comparisons of various "experts" that are sofa, that television, that official. Well, damn it, you also studied at school, you passed the same fractions the same way, the same teacher hammered the “lead to a common denominator” to you, what do you blunders in adulthood comparing cost do not bring it to a common denominator then?
                1. loki565
                  loki565 26 May 2020 17: 07 New
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                  Well, since you yourself were in school, you can probably calculate that there’s a calculator for the farmer, you don’t really worry much))) Moreover, the numbers are not accurate, they only show that the wheeled chassis is several times cheaper than the crawler.
                  1. ProkletyiPirat
                    ProkletyiPirat 27 May 2020 12: 09 New
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                    A baton is also cheaper than a machine gun, but if all machine gunners are asked to switch to batons because it is cheaper, they will not understand you.
                    Yes, even if you compare wheels and tracks, compare the adequate level of performance characteristics for cross-country ability and combat resistance to damage, for example, the chassis of a wheeled and tracked armored personnel carrier, otherwise they thought of comparing a semi-civilian highway truck and a caterpillar tank.
                    In general, for long-range self-propelled guns, the best chassis is wheeled, but not because it is "cheaper", but because there the maximum maximum length of the chassis relative to the width is greater, thanks to this you can have a large maximum maximum length of the gun barrel.
              2. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 26 May 2020 23: 38 New
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                Quote: loki565
                and the T90 tank costs 120 lyam

                Most of which falls on the filling (electronics, optics). Almost all the expensive filling in the tower, so the chassis is much cheaper than 50 lyamov.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 27 May 2020 05: 32 New
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                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  Therefore, the chassis is much cheaper than 50 lyamov.

                  And still it’s more expensive, twice a wheeled
            3. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 26 May 2020 20: 19 New
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              I wonder why ours do not make self-propelled guns in a layout like DONAR (Germany)?


              The turret with the cannon is shifted back, which means the cannon during the march will crawl out of size less. A cabin with excellent visibility for the driver, which is never superfluous. Yes, and they seem to be sitting there comfortably.
              1. Peter is not the first
                Peter is not the first 26 May 2020 21: 20 New
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                We have other climate-friendly design features: self-propelled guns "Magnolia"

              2. svp67
                svp67 27 May 2020 06: 04 New
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                Quote: Bad_gr
                I wonder why ours do not make self-propelled guns in a layout like DONAR (Germany)?

                Moreover, we have a good tracked chassis, but apparently its manufacturer at UVZ is not honored ...

                But that’s why the wheeled chassis doesn’t have room for transportation calculation in the cab, this is a big question
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 28 May 2020 10: 00 New
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                  Quote: svp67
                  But that’s why the wheeled chassis doesn’t have room for transportation calculation in the cab, this is a big question

                  It only now dawned that such a cabin could be enough. After all, the crew of the caterpillar Coalition of 3 people: the driver, gunner, commander. At the wheel: driver, gunner, commander. There are just 3 seats in the cockpit (unlikely). And the front control equipment, as in the tracked version.
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 28 May 2020 10: 07 New
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                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    It only now dawned that such a cabin could be enough.

                    Good. This system has a "trunk" at the back of the tower for loading from the ground, as I understand it, behind the cockpit they arranged a place for an additional carrying ammunition, outside the tower. Compare the appearance of what was "tested", there is a tower in the middle of the platform, with what went into the troops, there is a tower on the edge of the platform, the "trunk" just lies down well when the tower is in a fighting position. And who will overload it?
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 28 May 2020 10: 28 New
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                      Quote: svp67
                      This system has a "trunk" at the back of the turret for loading from the ground,

                      Apparently, when only three people, work only with a machine gun (in the conveyor 50 shots)
                      Quote: svp67
                      Compare the appearance of what was "tested", there is a tower in the middle of the platform, with what went into the troops, there is a tower on the edge of the platform,
                      I did not find the pictures with a difference. In the pictures that I came across, the shoulder strap of the tower is slightly offset from the first rear axle to the cab. Here on the schematic, too.

                      1. svp67
                        svp67 28 May 2020 11: 15 New
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                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        I did not find pictures with a difference

                        It seems you are right, the shoulder strap of the tower is perfectly visible in the figure.

                        I did not expect that the tower had such a huge aft niche, but although this is understandable, the huge and heavy barrel must be balanced with something ....

                        And honestly, I don’t know which of the BAZs the "local contingent" was going to install it, but for me it’s the only candidate for this role BAZ-69096


                        And almost perfect, especially seeing what kind of load during movement goes to the rear axles of KamAZ
                        And there are excellent candidates for supply, maintenance and support vehicles BAZ-69092-021

                      2. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 28 May 2020 11: 52 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        And honestly, I don’t know which of the BAZs the "local contingent" was going to install it on.

                        Baz produces cars with a lifting capacity of 14 to 40 tons. You can choose which one is more suitable. Independent suspension, widely spaced wheels, relatively low platform


                      3. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 28 May 2020 12: 21 New
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                        Quote: svp67
                        the only candidate for this role is BAZ-69096

                        I agree. The car, although long, but the turret with a gun, in my opinion, is the same length.
                        Kamaz, which was chosen under the Coalition, has a payload of 20 tons, so it’s the same in my pictures. The BAZ-69096 has 29,5 tons, the reserve of carrying capacity will allow you to move more relaxed.
        2. krillon
          krillon 26 May 2020 21: 16 New
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          And what has changed since the Second World War? You can see how many were on the track, how many on wheels. Do you think then did not understand the issue? And the alleged theater of operations determines the base on which the weapons are located. Here, somehow, the pictures were laid out from Syria, that we, the Americans, having moved a little to the side of the road, got stuck in armored cars. And it is in the desert.
          1. svp67
            svp67 27 May 2020 05: 58 New
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            Quote: Krillon
            And what has changed since the Second World War?

            Much...
            1. krillon
              krillon 27 May 2020 23: 57 New
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              Did flying saucers open antigravity? Everything is as before, wheels or tracks. And already the armor, engine power, etc. are secondary. There is a photo here when in Syria airplanes struck next to a Turkish convoy with armored vehicles. The poor fellow is standing with split tires, take it with your bare hands.
              1. svp67
                svp67 28 May 2020 06: 17 New
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                Quote: Krillon
                Did flying saucers open antigravity?

                Both this and that, plus nuclear power was mastered, new means of armed struggle appeared ...
                Quote: Krillon
                There is a photo here when in Syria airplanes struck next to a Turkish convoy with armored vehicles. The poor fellow is standing with split tires, take it with your bare hands.

                Did you beat a lot of horses, camels and other draft animals? During WWII, they transported a significant part of the artillery.
      2. Technical engineer
        Technical engineer 26 May 2020 20: 02 New
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        And with indirect? Caterpillar splinters withstand. But this one. There are two tokens. Cheap. Type budget save. (how does this affect the army clearly). Plus world fashion. But they have more roads, and somewhere like Africa and firmer soil)
  2. venik
    venik 26 May 2020 19: 06 New
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    Quote: Carnifexx
    mmm ... howitzer on a wheeled chassis

    ============
    Surprising?
    Then take a look:
    1. “Dana” - 152 mm (Czechoslovakia, 1980 (it was in service with the USSR in the Western World War)):


    2. "CAESAR" 155 mm (France, 2002):


    3 mm / 155 (Japan, 52)


    4. "EVA" 155 mm (Czech Republic-Slovakia, 2018)


    5. "T5-52" 155 mm (South Africa):


    6. "NORA-B52K1" (Serbia, 2010):


    7. T-155 "Yavuz" (Turkey, 2017):


    8. "Brutus" 155 mm (USA, 2019)


    9. "Archer" 155 mm (Sweden 2019)


    10. NORINCO SH11 155 mm (China):


    11. PLC-181 155 mm (China):


    12. "Bogdan" 155 mm (Ukraine, 2019)


    So what surprises you, Carl? Sau on a wheeled chassis doesn’t do it now “only lazy” - and ON ANY chassis: from armored vehicles to common trucks!
    Personally, one thing surprises me: but WHY haven't we been doing this for so long?
  3. Bar1
    Bar1 27 May 2020 09: 43 New
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    Kamaz has already taken up his own business. Where is platform O in spite of the MZKT? No, and never will be. So it’s better not to.
  • Break through
    Break through 26 May 2020 11: 27 New
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    Not bad. Wait and see.
    1. tanki-tanki
      tanki-tanki 26 May 2020 11: 54 New
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      Already the picture shows that the howitzer is powerful.
  • seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 26 May 2020 11: 27 New
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    There are more roads, you can get to the right place on wheels much faster or get out of there.
  • Fierce73
    Fierce73 26 May 2020 11: 29 New
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    Again KAMAZ. Step on the same rake as the developers of the "Shell". After all, it is clear that the car is narrow, unstable, high. There is also a BAZ chassis. Perfectly suited.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 34 New
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      Quote: Fierce73
      There is also a BAZ chassis. Perfectly suited.

      These are competitors.
      That’s why it is better for the military to suffer with a tipping machine on its side, not a penny to the side of Rostec.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 26 May 2020 11: 40 New
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        Quote: Spade
        These are competitors.
        , not a penny to the side of "Rostec" will not give up.
        Reply

        It's okay to want to make money. Specify specific requirements for technology - the business of the customer, i.e.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 46 New
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          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Specify specific technology requirements

          ... no one.
          "Scientific companies" obviously will not cope with this.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 26 May 2020 12: 01 New
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            "Scientific companies" obviously will not cope with this.

            And they were not created for this by the way. For this, there is a certain GRAU.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 05 New
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              Quote: alexmach
              For this, there is a certain GRAU.

              GRAU is not a scientific organization
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 26 May 2020 12: 08 New
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                GRAU is not a scientific organization

                Not clear thesis. This in no way prevents them from using scientific methods in their work ... theoretically. Well, as I understand it, the formation of requirements is still to them.

                And the scientific companies were made to use the necessary "human resource" with maximum benefit.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 13 New
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                  Quote: alexmach
                  Not clear thesis.

                  Requirements for technology should be put forward by specialized research institutes. Which began to destroy even under Gorbachev, and finally destroyed under Medvedev-Serdyukov.
      2. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 01 New
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        These are competitors.
        That’s why it is better for the military to suffer with a tipping machine on its side, not a penny to the side of Rostec.


        Nonsense should not be carried.

        The BAZ chassis is larger in size and probably this imposes a restriction on the transportation of SAO by aviation.



        Here is an example of the ZRPK Shell; look at how much longer it is -

        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 10 New
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          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          Nonsense should not be carried.

          And where did you manage to find her there?
          Almaz-Antey is now part of Rostec?
          Or does BAZ no longer belong to Almaz-Antey?

          While I'm not talking nonsense at all laughing
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 19 New
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            And where did you manage to find her there?


            But what is this? -

            That’s why it is better for the military to suffer with a tipping machine on its side, not a penny to the side of Rostec.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 29 New
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              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              But what is this? -

              It?
              Reinforced concrete fact.

              At first, the Kazakh MLRS were capsized on such a chassis.


              Then- "Shell", and more than once


              But Rostec continues to experiment with the military.

              And if you say that it’s not about money, it will be that very “nonsense”.
              1. loki565
                loki565 26 May 2020 17: 19 New
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                The bad driver turned the equipment upside down and no more. Do you need to throw a photo of inverted tanks and howitzers? Even armored personnel carriers manage to flip out of the blue, and his center of gravity will be lower than that of the BAZ
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 26 May 2020 18: 31 New
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                  Quote: loki565
                  Bad driver flipped equipment

                  In the army, all drivers are "bad" by default
                  So either the car should be just for that, or let good drivers prepare for their money.
                2. venik
                  venik 26 May 2020 19: 33 New
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                  Quote: loki565
                  Even armored personnel carriers manage to flip out of the blue, and his center of gravity will be lower than that of the BAZ

                  =========
                  It happens! He himself once had a chance to take part in turning the BTR-70 from head to foot. She was still a hard worker! Mekhvod - the stauros club had to be faded somewhere and until the evening “didn’t show its nose” (they were looking for it all!). Oh then the fighters and he was "discharged", according to "I really can’t"!
                  So, that "if you want" you can completely turn over EVERYTHING!
                  Although it is thought on a wheeled self-propelled guns they will still use the KamAZ-6560M Tornado:

                  There is an armored cabin, and it seems that it will be a little more stable!
              2. Ratmir_Ryazan
                Ratmir_Ryazan 27 May 2020 18: 21 New
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                Is Kamaz to blame here too?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 27 May 2020 18: 32 New
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                  Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Is Kamaz to blame here too?

                  I don’t know how the last one, but the rest is a fall from the “cart”. What absolutely does not apply to the topic
                  1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                    Ratmir_Ryazan 27 May 2020 19: 14 New
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                    I don’t know how the last one, but the rest is a fall from the “cart”. What to the topic


                    Is it possible to drop equipment from a cart?

                    They carry her on a cart for a reason, but because it is tracked.

                    It is necessary to be more careful with the equipment, with a fool and a tank you can turn it on a level place.

                    The shell on the Kamaz chassis in IL-76 is included and transported by them, and only Ruslan should be transported on the chassis of the BAZ, and we have not so many of them and so far no new ones are expected.

                    I suspect that the chassis and everything else is that of the Shell, that the self-propelled guns were made for specific requirements, and this determines the choice of the chassis, and not money for Rostec.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 May 2020 07: 56 New
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                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                      Is it possible to drop equipment from a cart?

                      And how. And drop it regularly.

                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                      You need to be more careful with the technique

                      laughing
                      Yeah. And you don’t need to take her to war. Where are not the best drivers and the need for active maneuvering.
                      Better to stand nicely in park boxes. With shoe polish wheels.



                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                      not money for Rostec.

                      It is them.
                      Because KamAZ is for Rostec’s own, and all sorts of BAZs are not
                      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                        Ratmir_Ryazan 28 May 2020 11: 16 New
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                        You do not understand the essence, in nothing.

                        Due to the fact that the equipment is tracked, it has to be carried on tractors and it is dropped and turned over, even tanks and without transportation on tractors -



                        And the reason for this is poor crew training or neglect of safety requirements.

                        And the chassis for combat platforms is chosen based on their required characteristics specified in the terms of reference !!!

                        Il-76 can transport vehicles on a chassis to KamAZ, and only An-124 Ruslan on a BAZ chassis. Realize the difference?
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 28 May 2020 11: 37 New
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                        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                        Il-76 can transport vehicles on a chassis to KamAZ, and only An-124 Ruslan on a BAZ chassis. Realize the difference?

                        I don’t realize. For the statement is unfounded.
      3. loki565
        loki565 26 May 2020 17: 25 New
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        Yes, most likely it doesn’t fit into the IL76, and the shells are mainly thrown by them.
      4. DenZ
        DenZ 27 May 2020 08: 57 New
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        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        The BAZ chassis is larger in size and probably this imposes a restriction on the transportation of SAO by aviation.

        Are there any requirements for transporting the Coalition on a wheeled chassis by aviation? And this should be at the expense of sustainability?
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 27 May 2020 18: 27 New
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          Are there any requirements for transporting the Coalition on a wheeled chassis by aviation? And this should be at the expense of sustainability?


          Probably there is, at least it would be very cool, as it would greatly increase the mobility of artillery.

          And about the fact that the cars overturn, it’s not the fault of the chassis here, but the poor preparation of the drivers. Military equipment may not be perfect in all respects; it is always a compromise on a number of characteristics.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 May 2020 11: 51 New
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            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            And about the fact that the cars overturn, it’s not the fault of the chassis here, but the poor preparation of the drivers.

            The fact that people do not want to ride monocycles is not the "chassis" to blame, but the poor preparation of people.
            So what do you prefer, a year of training on a unicycle, or just get on a bike?
    2. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 26 May 2020 12: 23 New
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      +15
      There is still a moment. The maximum load on the rear bogie for this chassis by KAMAZ is defined as 23 tons.
      At the same time, an empty chassis with a bare frame, the load on the truck is 5,3 tons.
      Accordingly, under the ACS add-on there remains 17,7
      Further we consider
      The tower is about 12 tons, BK about 2 tons, already 14.
      It turns out that on the most powerful subframe, carrying the shoulder strap of the tower, and withstanding recoil when fired, only 3 tons remain on outriggers with hydraulics.
      This is absolutely unrealistic, and it’s not for nothing that KAMAZ has already tried to do so

      Bridges with short axles and twin wheels on 24-inch career rubber - load-bearing ceiling. That is, even just dual 12.00R20s do not fit, do not hold weight.

      I understand that KAMAZ could underestimate the g / p chassis, and it often does this, but never by more than 25%, that is, relatively open data in this chassis may be unaccounted for 4,4 tons of carrying capacity. Judging by the photo on the gadget this is clearly not enough.

      Well, the rollover will be even worse than that of the Shell. KAMAZ is like a cancerous tumor, it climbs everywhere.
      1. venik
        venik 26 May 2020 20: 16 New
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        Quote: timokhin-aa
        KAMAZ is like a cancerous tumor, it climbs everywhere.

        =========
        Well, you can’t argue with that (KamAZ - it’s a plug for every barrel)! But with the rest - you can:
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The maximum load on the rear bogie for this chassis by KAMAZ is defined as 23 tons.
        At the same time, an empty chassis with a bare frame, the load on the truck is 5,3 tons.

        ------------
        Here's the question: Actually, the KamAZ-53958 Tornado chassis allows you to mount equipment (payload) up to 25,4 tons.
        The self-propelled gun tower "Msta-S" weighs - empty - 13.5 tons, with a full ammunition load - 15.7 tons. The mass of self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV" is 6 tons heavier than "Msta-S". If we assume that all 6 tons is exclusively due to a heavier tower (and this is evedomo NOT SO!), Then 21,7 tons come out. Those. to outriggers, etc. - remains 3.7 tons - COMPLETELY enough! And if we take the correction for the heavier chassis of the Coalition - and in general - almost 4.5 - 5 tons !!! It should be borne in mind that just the outriggers assume the bulk of the recoil when firing! request
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 26 May 2020 21: 32 New
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          Actually, this is KAMAZ 6560

          Those. to outriggers, etc. - remains 3.7 tons - COMPLETELY enough!


          This is the mass of 18 cubic tanks made of steel 3 mm.
          This is slightly smaller than the tipper body of 16 cubic meters of steel, board 4mm bottom 6 mm with a subframe.

          Frame with shoulder straps and outriggers 5-6 tons minimum.
      2. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 27 May 2020 11: 15 New
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        +2
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        KAMAZ is like a cancerous tumor, it climbs everywhere.

        Yeah, but at the same time, KAMAZ managed to make the car better and faster in terms of BBM (typhoons) than the "brilliant" GAZ / VPK creators who have been on the BTR-60 legacy for many years.
        As for the chassis for the Shell and artillery systems, here claims should not be presented to the factory, which is working successfully and defending its interests (even at the expense of others), but to the Moscow Region.

        Otherwise, it’s hard to argue with you.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 27 May 2020 13: 39 New
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          +1
          I do not argue about Typhoons, just why jump over your head? Well, they obviously do not take out heavy weapons, why climb? This is for the time being, for the time being.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 May 2020 07: 58 New
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            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Well, they obviously do not take out heavy weapons, why climb?

            Money.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 28 May 2020 13: 00 New
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              Just one day they may ask.
              21 research institutes had to hack this craft. Sooner or later, this thread will be pulled. And behind it, and the rest - behind KAMAZ there is a lot of everything that the average user VO does not even imagine.
              It will be necessary after Putin to throw Chemezov or cut off his connections (for example, if he resigns after Putin) and hello, they will recall both the Coalition and the Shell.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 28 May 2020 13: 07 New
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                Quote: timokhin-aa
                and shell

                This is generally a strange option. They say there are artillery stabilizers. What looks like a total mockery.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                It will be necessary after Putin to throw off Chemezov or cut off his connections (for example, if he resigns after Putin) and hello, they will recall

                One of Putin’s main problems is the inability or unwillingness to clean up his environment. They in most cases substitute it.
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 26 May 2020 15: 51 New
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      But is the Bryansk Automobile Plant not included in Rostec?
      1. venik
        venik 26 May 2020 20: 29 New
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        Quote: Sergej1972
        But is the Bryansk Automobile Plant not included in Rostec?

        =======
        No! He is a member of the Almaz-Antey concern!
  • rich
    rich 26 May 2020 11: 39 New
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    +12
    After all, it is clear that the car is narrow, unstable, high.

    Why unstable? It goes pretty well on the road, does not tip over. And there’s no problem shooting yes
    In general, see video
    1. Kotofeich
      Kotofeich 26 May 2020 12: 36 New
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      +7
      The video shows how much it sags on the rear axles.
      1. MMX
        MMX 26 May 2020 16: 41 New
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        Quote: Kotofeich
        The video shows how much it sags on the rear axles.


        Yes, noticeably strong. Obviously, the KAMAZ chassis does not pull from the word at all.
        It seems that these are export options. I hope that such a varinat will not enter the troops. It has been proven a thousand times that tracked vehicles are more mobile than wheeled vehicles (in our conditions, for sure).
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 13: 38 New
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      This platform needed to add one more axis.
    3. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 26 May 2020 13: 49 New
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      0
      Quote: Rich
      And there’s no problem shooting

      In the video, the gun shoots strictly backwards, but what if the tower is deployed across the machine? For the goose, this is not a problem.
      1. venik
        venik 26 May 2020 21: 53 New
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        Quote: Bad_gr
        In the video, the gun shoots strictly backwards, but what if the tower is deployed across the machine?

        ======
        Outriggers are installed there:
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 27 May 2020 12: 24 New
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          +1
          Quote: venik
          Outriggers are installed there:

          1. venik
            venik 27 May 2020 15: 01 New
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            +1
            Quote: Bad_gr
            Quote: venik
            Outriggers are installed there:


            =========
            good That's just this photo I unsuccessfully searched for yesterday! Had to be content with the pattern found! drinks
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 26 May 2020 11: 54 New
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    +7
    Quote: Fierce73
    There is also a BAZ chassis. Perfectly suited.

    BAZ now has a different task - it needs to make its chassis for all Almaz-Anteyevsky products (replace the same MZKT machines).
  • knn54
    knn54 26 May 2020 11: 58 New
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    Alas, additional emphasis is needed due to the instability of the wheels to lateral loads when firing.
    Well, from regular tire punctures you can’t get anywhere.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 26 May 2020 12: 05 New
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      and there are 4 of them. And they need all wheeled howitzers.
      1. knn54
        knn54 26 May 2020 12: 58 New
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        I didn’t speak specifically about the Coalition, but about wheeled ones in general.
        In Turkish 155 mm, for example, for firing at the rear of the unit, two stops with hydraulic actuators recline. The deployment time before opening fire is 1 minute, and the coagulation time is 2 minutes.
        PS 2S35 howitzer is designed for arming artillery brigades of army subordination of ground forces.
    2. Albert1988
      Albert1988 26 May 2020 12: 39 New
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      +3
      Quote: knn54
      Alas, additional emphasis is needed due to the instability of the wheels to lateral loads when firing.

      Not a single wheeled howitzer has yet gotten rid of additional stops ...
      Quote: knn54
      Well, from regular tire punctures you can’t get anywhere.

      There are special tires for this, and not those on which civilian trucks run ...
  • alexmach
    alexmach 26 May 2020 11: 58 New
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    +2
    Sau in any case does not shoot on the move and will lower the supports before firing.
  • lwxx
    lwxx 26 May 2020 12: 23 New
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    +9
    I’m more interested in how the axle load difference was decided. The video shows that even a small off-road causes the front end to freeze, the “shell” is much easier. BAZ, it seems to me, is a more balanced car.
  • Grits
    Grits 26 May 2020 13: 48 New
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    +4
    Quote: Fierce73
    Again KAMAZ. Step on the same rake as the developers of the "Shell". After all, it is clear that the car is narrow, unstable, high. There is also a BAZ chassis. Perfect

    Technically, BAZ is much preferable. But KAMAZ has more money and therefore lobbyists are cooler.
  • loki565
    loki565 26 May 2020 16: 49 New
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    -2
    Stability like any crane, here a lot depends on the driver, if he wants to turn it over on a tank chassis.
  • venik
    venik 26 May 2020 22: 02 New
    • 0
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    0
    Quote: Fierce73
    There is also a BAZ chassis. Perfectly suited.

    ==========
    But BAZ and KamAZ - in different "teams":
    BAZ is Almaz-Antey;
    KamAZ - Rostec .......
    It can be seen that they will not agree ....
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 26 May 2020 11: 38 New
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    I am now completely serious, that’s what prevents me from working out this beauty for ship-based ?!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 41 New
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      +6
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I am now completely serious, that’s what prevents me from working out this beauty for ship-based ?!

      Rate of fire is low. The fleet needs unitary loading. And this in fact will be a completely different weapon.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 26 May 2020 11: 44 New
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        -5
        152 mm in fact a nuclear weapon, well, the power of 152 mm makes 130 mm. Without recalling guided or homing missiles. And how a 130-air defense weapon is redundant, but how simply a weapon is insufficient.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 54 New
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          +5
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Well, the power of 152 mm makes 130 mm.

          Controversial.
          Do not forget about the rate of fire.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 26 May 2020 11: 58 New
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            -3
            That and it is that the coalition’s advantages include the highest (even secret) rate of fire, for 152 mm by itself, well, loading there is not corpuscular, albeit not sleeve, EMNIP.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 02 New
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              +7
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              That and that, that the highest (as much as secret) rate of fire are attributed to the Coalition's advantages

              For a land gun, it is great. After all, they shoot mainly in the division. Rarely a battery and very rarely a fire platoon.

              But at sea, such rate of fire is not enough. But it is possible to place a fairly large-sized unitary supply system.
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 26 May 2020 14: 26 New
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          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          152 mm in fact a nuclear weapon
          Forget about nuclear shells, they are not. Everyone got rid as soon as the number of carriers became sane.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Without recalling guided or homing missiles.
          In the west, dohren of guided projectiles in 127 mm.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          And how a 130-air defense weapon is redundant, but how simply a weapon is insufficient.
          Why is it suddenly redundant and why is it insufficient? Just because of the appearance of any drones, anti-aircraft artillery becomes relevant again. In the fleet, artillery guns are universal. At the end of the Second World War, the Americans made universal 155-mm guns, it turned out badly (the mass exceeded the mass of the 155-mm gun and 155-mm anti-aircraft guns at the same time, and the light cruiser turned out to have a displacement of 18000 tons, more than heavy). So it’s not easy.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 27 May 2020 06: 00 New
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            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            Forget about nuclear shells, they aren’t

            And it can never be? So for no reason, how many treaties have the United States withdrew? Do you catch the connection?
            Quote: bk0010
            In the west, dohren of guided projectiles in 127 mm

            Exactly that in the west. Give examples of such shells to 130 mm? And to 152 mm there are already available as well as extra long-range fights, so also unification as an argument for.
            Quote: bk0010
            Why is it suddenly redundant and why is it insufficient? Just because of the appearance of any drones, anti-aircraft artillery becomes relevant again.
            Small-caliber ZAK has not been canceled, just not me. ))) 30 mm, 57 mm, 76 mm, 100 mm is not enough for you to fight drones? Unless of course this is some kind of Global Hawk. ))) But on coastal targets 130 mm are both short-range (comparatively) and not powerful enough (comparable to 122 mm), and in the case of developing correctable and long-range targets the power will still decrease.
            Quote: bk0010
            In the fleet, artillery guns are universal

            And what does the Coalition not like in this regard? The elevation angle is considerable (70 degrees, but this is not accurate), the speed of the vertical guidance and rate of fire allow several shells to “fire raid”, which means they are already quite sufficient, the “low” horizontal guidance speed was mentioned, but without specific numbers. So what prevents the refinement of reinforcing GN drives? Well, I did not mention the main consideration for the "Coalition" - its mass. Even with the chassis, on which only the devil is on the ship, the mass of 48 tons is not required turret compartment! For comparison, the mass of the AK-192 is 25 tons without ammunition but with a turret compartment.
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 27 May 2020 12: 32 New
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              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              And it can never be? So for no reason, how many treaties have the United States withdrew? Do you catch the connection?
              There is nothing to do with the treaty, just for the sake of one kiloton of a 155-mm shell, too much plutonium is required. The same amount can be smelled much stronger.
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Exactly that in the west. Give examples of such shells to 130 mm? And to 152 mm there are already available as well as extra long-range fights, so also unification as an argument for.
              Unification is good. Just completely unify does not work: in the Navy unitary. And the land men are unlikely to share with the sailors: they themselves are few.
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Small-caliber ZAK has not been canceled, just not me. ))) 30 mm, 57 mm, 76 mm, 100 mm is not enough for you to fight drones?
              Small-caliber ZAK against drones are ineffective: the target is small, it’s hard to hit, and the high-explosive impact and fragmentation field of small-caliber ZAK are small. So 30 and 57 mm are definitely not enough.
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Quote: bk0010
              In the fleet, artillery guns are universal

              And what does the Coalition not like in this regard? The elevation angle is considerable (70 degrees, but this is not accurate), the speed of the vertical guidance and rate of fire allow several shells to “fire raid”, which means they are already quite sufficient, the “low” horizontal guidance speed was mentioned, but without specific numbers. So what prevents the refinement of reinforcing GN drives? Well, I did not mention the main consideration for the "Coalition" - its mass. Even with the chassis, on which only the devil is on the ship, the mass of 48 tons is not required turret compartment! For comparison, the mass of the AK-192 is 25 tons without ammunition but with a turret compartment.
              70 degrees is good, but elevation alone is not enough. The coalition will not go, it will be necessary to make a new instrument for anyone, albeit on its basis. Do not forget that the Coalition is a howitzer, and the fleet needs guns. By the way, I myself am for the return of 6 "to the fleet, it's just really difficult.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 28 May 2020 06: 25 New
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                0
                Quote: bk0010
                There is nothing to do with the treaty, just for the sake of one kiloton of a 155-mm shell, too much plutonium is required. The same amount can be smelled much stronger.
                ??? The same (at least some) quantity must be delivered to the target somehow. 130 mm is basically not possible.
                Quote: bk0010
                Unification is good. Just completely unify does not work: in the Navy unitary. And the land men are unlikely to share with the sailors: they themselves are few.
                And which 152 mm unitaries are now in the fleet? About share, this is some kind of nonsense, shells for the fleet and the army in different countries will do, or what? And the number of guns for the fleet would not be an order of magnitude smaller than for the army, it simply cries out the need for unification with the landmen.
                Quote: bk0010
                So 30 and 57 mm are definitely not enough.
                It seems you think that the drone in terms of stability is steeper than RCC, this is far from the case.
                Quote: bk0010
                Do not forget that the Coalition is a howitzer, and the fleet needs guns

                Howitzer gun, and not just a howitzer or gun, I rarely use this phrase, but "learn the materiel"!
                Quote: bk0010
                By the way, I myself am for the return of 6 "to the fleet, it's just really difficult.

                It’s just that the Coalition will greatly simplify it, KVM by itself.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 26 May 2020 11: 58 New
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        +2
        Quote: Spade
        The fleet needs unitary loading.

        The fleet wants a universal weapon. A 152 mm can not or can badly in air defense. smile
        EMNIP, during the previous approach to the shell, even in Soviet times, the 152-mm naval AU lost the AK-130 for this reason.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 00 New
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          +10
          Quote: Alexey RA
          during the previous approach to the projectile, back in Soviet times, the 152-mm naval AU lost the AK-130 for this reason.

          Because the freshest 152 mm unit was like this:
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 26 May 2020 12: 19 New
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            +2
            Quote: Spade
            Because the freshest 152 mm unit was

            6 "Kane performance for coastal defense?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 21 New
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              +3
              Ага.
              And I won’t mention it anymore ....
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 26 May 2020 13: 33 New
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                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Ага.
                And I won’t mention it anymore ....

                And there were only three types of serial Russian naval 6 "under smokeless powder: 152/45 Kane, 152/50 Obukhovskaya-Amurskaya and 152/57 (B-38).
                About 152/50 on navweaps they write that she had Semi-fixed loading: the shot is stored separately, going to the unitary before loading.
        2. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 26 May 2020 12: 49 New
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          -1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The fleet wants a universal gun

          I understand that the navy is all in tradition, but who needs versatility in the style of the 40s? Or elevation angle of 70 degrees. or how much does the Coalition have there, not enough to fire at low-flying anti-ship missiles? But I repeat, 152 mm can because 130 mm can’t simply due to the smaller size and weight of the projectile, and it’s not even about the coast.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 26 May 2020 13: 42 New
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            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Or elevation angle of 70 degrees. or how much does the Coalition have there, not enough to fire at low-flying anti-ship missiles?

            If everything depended only on the guidance angles, then the F-22, army howitzers and 203-mm guns of British SRT would be excellent anti-aircraft guns. smile
            EMNIP, in the 152-mm naval command and control system from the point of view of air defense did not arrange the rate of fire and angular guidance speeds.
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            I understand that the navy is all in tradition, but who needs versatility in the style of the 40s?

            You will be surprised, but almost everyone. On the rotting West all 5 "shipboard ACs are universal.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 26 May 2020 13: 43 New
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              Quote: Alexey RA
              In the decaying West, all 5 "shipboard ACs are universal

              So I write traditions. )))
      3. svp67
        svp67 26 May 2020 12: 04 New
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        +3
        Quote: Spade
        Rate of fire is low.

        Not only.
        Quote: Spade
        The fleet needs unitary loading.

        They are trying to install universal artillery systems on ships that can work both on sea and land targets, and on air
        Quote: Spade
        And this in fact will be a completely different weapon.

        And so it will turn out.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 14 New
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          Quote: svp67
          They try to install universal artillery systems on ships

          SmartCamp from Rheinmetal
          1. svp67
            svp67 26 May 2020 14: 47 New
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            Quote: Spade
            SmartCamp from Rheinmetal

            There is such a thing, but so far this is a rare exception and not the fact that it will become the rule. All the same, the fleet imposes many additional requirements. In addition to unitary ammunition, this is the presence of an arms stabilizer, as well as other materials in the manufacture.
        2. Starshina
          Starshina 26 May 2020 14: 17 New
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          Maybe it's time to move on to smart ammunition. One shot - one hit !!! In this case, the rate of fire will not be decisive ...
          1. svp67
            svp67 26 May 2020 14: 49 New
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            Quote: Starshina
            .One shot - one hit !!! In this case, the rate of fire will not be decisive ...

            While it is too expensive, although this area needs to be developed in priority order
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 26 May 2020 19: 33 New
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            Quote: Starshina
            Maybe it's time to move on to smart ammunition. One shot - one hit !!!

            OTO Melara 76 mm and guided projectile DART - for solving air defense tasks.
            Or a VULCANO shell in 127 mm and 76 mm calibers for long-range operation in two versions:
            - with the correction of the trajectory (ANN and GPS) to work on a fixed target with known coordinates;
            - with the correction of the trajectory (ANN and GPS) and homing in the final section for working on moving targets.
          3. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 26 May 2020 20: 02 New
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            Quote: Starshina
            One shot - one hit !!! In this case, the rate of fire will not be decisive ...

            And if you need to shoot at positions where the enemy dug in? and which has its own battery for answering.
      4. illi
        illi 26 May 2020 16: 55 New
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        For the fleet and 130 in modern realities is redundant. For close air defense and weaving is not bad. For shooting at small surface-mounted 130 is also redundant. Knead the coast with modern expensive frigates, also a so-so venture.
    2. svp67
      svp67 26 May 2020 12: 02 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I am now completely serious, that’s what prevents me from working out this beauty for ship-based ?!

      For the fleet, it can only be used as a coastal system.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 26 May 2020 12: 35 New
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        Quote: svp67
        For the fleet, it can only be used as a coastal system.

        If the naval ones again do not mess up and decide that only naval calibers can be in coastal artillery, so as not to produce a variety of calibers.
        However, this argument has now become a little irrelevant - now the fleets have their own army corps with all calibers of land detectors, up to 203 mm. smile
        1. svp67
          svp67 26 May 2020 14: 56 New
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          Quote: Alexey RA
          If the naval ones again do not mess up and decide that only naval calibers can be in coastal artillery

          In this case, I think they will not be bothered, as they still have
      2. Starshina
        Starshina 26 May 2020 14: 25 New
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        Russian naval artillery systems are long outdated. Yes, and range and accuracy leaves much to be desired ... Where are the shells with active-reactive acceleration where is the homing?
        1. MMX
          MMX 26 May 2020 16: 56 New
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          Quote: Starshina
          Russian naval artillery systems are long outdated. Yes, and range and accuracy leaves much to be desired ... Where are the shells with active-reactive acceleration where is the homing?


          Like all shipbuilding, alas ..
    3. venik
      venik 26 May 2020 22: 25 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I am now completely serious, that’s what prevents me from working out this beauty for ship-based ?!

      ========
      So developed already - "Coalition-F" was called:

      But she was not interested in the fleet ......
      Perhaps the rate of fire is small (15 rounds per minute), but rather the impossibility of firing at air targets ..... And the fleet needs "generalists". request
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 26 May 2020 11: 47 New
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    Reasonable. And the export niche is good.
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 26 May 2020 14: 44 New
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      Again, stupid people are minus ... Well then this is it, huh? In quarantine, the "shkolota" invasion of the resource? :)
  • moreman78
    moreman78 26 May 2020 11: 51 New
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    And where is this miracle to apply? We, unlike amers, have NO STRIKER brigade without tracked vehicles!
    Take for example our Omsbr on the BTR-80/82 and look at its equipment. Even in it it is full of heavy tracked vehicles - this is a tank battalion, in the engineer-sapper battalion - the same tracked vehicles are enough, the air defense equipment (Torahs, Tunguski and Strel-10) - on tracked chassis, and in other divisions it’s full of goosenecks (like motolig).
    So the question is, why do we need this wheeled self-propelled gun?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 57 New
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      Quote: moreman78
      We, unlike amers, have NO STRIKER brigade without tracked vehicles!

      We, unlike the Americans, the barrel artillery not only at the brigade level.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 26 May 2020 14: 28 New
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        Quote: Spade
        We, unlike the Americans, have barrel artillery
        And she has MTLB
    2. Slon1978
      Slon1978 26 May 2020 12: 23 New
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      ACS Coalition is the artillery of the reserve level of the General Staff, it is supposed to form separate formations from it.
      1. svp67
        svp67 26 May 2020 14: 57 New
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        Quote: Slon1978
        ACS Coalition is the artillery of the reserve level of the General Staff, it is supposed to form separate formations from it.

        No ... it's an army, maximum front-line level
    3. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 26 May 2020 12: 33 New
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      Wheeled self-propelled guns have long been in demand in the Russian Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Moreman. The war in Ossetia and Syria showed that the so-called BTGs are now mainly used. Towed guns often with a modern dynamics of clashes either do not have time to deploy or do not have time to escape from the response (the civil war in Donbas is another confirmation). Well, and purely technically, the average mileage of the gusli before the replacement (full)) is 7000 km. The wheel equipment will not even ask for a change of oil))) Spare parts in any store (without order) That's the only thing that upset KAMAZ, although the build quality Ural lately even worse.
    4. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. 26 May 2020 13: 14 New
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      Already better than towed artillery))
    5. Starshina
      Starshina 26 May 2020 14: 07 New
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      For export..
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 11: 52 New
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    According to Vasily Nabatov, wheeled Coalition-CB2 has several advantages over caterpillar equipment. It is more mobile and able to travel on ordinary public roads. In addition, a self-propelled howitzer based on the KamAZ car has a greater resource than the tracked version.


    This is all true, but why shouldn’t the Kamaz chassis be equipped with bulletproof and anti-fragmentation protection, in order to increase the crew’s survival rate and give the opportunity to change position in case of shelling.

    The very first mine or shell that exploded next to it will immediately destroy both the SAO and the crew, in whole or in part.
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 26 May 2020 11: 57 New
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      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      but why the Kamaz chassis should not be done with bulletproof and anti-splinter protection,

      And then he will survive?
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 11: 58 New
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      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

      That’s all true, but why shouldn’t the Kamaz chassis be equipped with bulletproof and anti-splinter protection,

      ??
      The cabin is exactly armored
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 03 New
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        The cabin is exactly armored


        In which place?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 14 New
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          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          The cabin is exactly armored


          In which place?

          Glass
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 23 New
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            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            The cabin is exactly armored


            In which place?

            Glass


            It just seemed to you.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 27 May 2020 16: 18 New
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              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              - The cabin is exactly armored
              - In which place?
              - Glasses.

              “It just seemed to you.”

    3. Fierce73
      Fierce73 26 May 2020 12: 03 New
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      Because KAMAZ is at its full capacity under this installation. If you apply a more load-lifting and power-armed chassis of the BAZ, then you can think about booking!
    4. alexmach
      alexmach 26 May 2020 12: 17 New
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      This is all true, but why should not the Kamaz chassis be equipped with bulletproof and anti-shatter protection?

      And where does it follow that there is no armored cabin then?
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 27 New
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        Judging by the appearance, the armor does not smell there.
        1. Vidock
          Vidock 26 May 2020 12: 39 New
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          There is armor. And the windshield and side windows. Watch the loopholes.
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 26 May 2020 12: 43 New
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            There is armor.


            Exactly, there really seems to be something, I saw a loophole on the side window.
    5. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 26 May 2020 12: 24 New
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      He can’t withstand the cannon in terms of loads, where is the armor ...
    6. Albert1988
      Albert1988 26 May 2020 12: 42 New
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      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      This is all true, but why shouldn’t the Kamaz chassis be equipped with bulletproof and anti-fragmentation protection, in order to increase the crew’s survival rate and give the opportunity to change position in case of shelling.

      It depends on the role of such a machine — if it ran in, shot back, and ran away, then serious booking will only be a minus — it will reduce mobility.
    7. Grits
      Grits 26 May 2020 14: 13 New
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      +1
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      This is all true, but why shouldn’t the Kamaz chassis be equipped with bulletproof and anti-fragmentation protection, in order to increase the crew’s survival rate and give the opportunity to change position in case of shelling.

      KAMAZ barely drags the installation itself. If he also hangs armor, then he will leave the ground or will not budge. And put on another chassis (the BAZ is the most) - for nothing!
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 26 May 2020 11: 57 New
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    An incomprehensible design ... there is a tower AZ there are .... there are no armored cabs.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 26 May 2020 12: 21 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      An incomprehensible design ... there is a tower AZ there are .... there are no armored cabs.

      Tests
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 May 2020 12: 04 New
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    Certain advantages, disadvantages, have any chassis.
    A question of priorities or a reasonable balance, when choosing one or the other, or maybe both of these .... boom to see how it will be.
  • Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 26 May 2020 12: 08 New
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    Purely commercial project. It will not be unequivocally adopted. Mind games of "alternative talent" ... I just liked this phrase today.
    1. KCA
      KCA 26 May 2020 13: 26 New
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      +1
      130mm "Beach" accepted, but 152mm absolutely not?
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 26 May 2020 12: 14 New
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    I read the comments ...
    Business analysis, attempts to consider the rational grain ...
    In practice, no one doubts the need for this tool.
    Whether it was a year ago, when articles appeared on the creation and testing of the Bogdan self-propelled guns' neighbors! Specially unwound to remind:



    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 26 May 2020 12: 20 New
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      I understand the Ukrainian concept ... like Cezart155mm French production. This gun is similar to German howitzers, but their base is either an 8x8 Boxer or an all-terrain vehicle with an armored cab or the Swedish version based on career equipment.
    2. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 26 May 2020 12: 30 New
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      bogdan this is .. old
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 26 May 2020 14: 48 New
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          I forgot at the troll who just registered to ask what to write !!!!
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 26 May 2020 12: 38 New
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      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Whether it was a year ago, when articles appeared on the creation and testing of the Bogdan self-propelled guns' neighbors!

      laughing laughing laughing
      This machine is basically different.
      The Ukrainian "super-weapon" must be compared with the Syrian 130-mm cannon in a car.

      Here is a car ahead of Bogdan by a generation. With classmates such as "Archer", "AGM", "Eve"
  • igorspb
    igorspb 26 May 2020 12: 17 New
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    Wheels - as an option for export performance. Not everyone can or want to exploit the tracks.
  • Brancodd
    Brancodd 26 May 2020 12: 21 New
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    Ek would probably be already in the troops. And more ...
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 26 May 2020 12: 33 New
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    Good down will work. It works from the rear, so it is unlikely to be hit. She had a pair of air defense cover in the form of a shell and generally norms.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 26 May 2020 12: 42 New
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    Maybe to replace the BEACH will do.
    1. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. 26 May 2020 13: 17 New
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      At the coast, at least an adequate chassis)))
      1. Grits
        Grits 26 May 2020 14: 18 New
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        Quote: V.I.P.
        At the coast, at least an adequate chassis

        "Beach" is generally a complex. With attached target designation, control, life support machines, etc.
        1. V.I.P.
          V.I.P. 26 May 2020 14: 35 New
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          I'm talking about a tool)) ....
  • Piramidon
    Piramidon 26 May 2020 13: 10 New
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    +1
    It is interesting to know if the tower rotates on it? And if so, will it not turn over if you deploy the barrel and shoot at right angles to the longitudinal axis of the installation? Who is in the know, enlighten.
    1. U-58
      U-58 26 May 2020 16: 36 New
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      So there, know jacks for stop
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 May 2020 16: 50 New
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        Quote: U-58
        So there, know jacks for stop

        If the "jacks" (outriggers will be correct), then this is the additional time for deployment-collapse. IMHO
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 26 May 2020 13: 27 New
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    If put on the chassis, then they plan to export
  • prodi
    prodi 26 May 2020 13: 36 New
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    +1
    apparently, it’s necessary to do something like this, with the central warhead with a high center of gravity actively turning up on the move
    1. Starshina
      Starshina 26 May 2020 14: 44 New
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      Normal retractable paws need to be made like Japanese Mikado cranes ...
      1. prodi
        prodi 26 May 2020 15: 04 New
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        with paws is not a problem, it is obvious that 150mm self-propelled guns are too heavy for an “off-road” 4-axle wheeled chassis even on the go
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 26 May 2020 16: 55 New
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        +1
        Quote: Starshina
        Normal retractable paws need to be made like Japanese Mikado cranes ...

        "Ziegel-Ziegel ..." The crane does not need to quickly spread out the "paws" to shoot, quickly fold and lose the position.
        I had to work with cranes "Kato".
  • donavi49
    donavi49 26 May 2020 13: 37 New
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    In fact, this is not there, not here. Now, even the Chinese have refused such a concept (tower installation on a wheeled chassis). They make either normal tracked self-propelled guns or cheap wheels.

    By the way, the Chinese with SH15 hit this well. Just recently presented available for export and have already sold a bunch. Mostly in Pakistan (Norinco signed a contract for the supply of the Pakistani army of 236 155-mm self-propelled guns SH-15) and East Africa (8-10 vehicles each), but it seems that even Algeria bought (or a pre-contract at the final stage) 30 units in addition to Caesars .



    1. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. 26 May 2020 15: 05 New
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      10 countries do this and offer for sale.
      Atmos

      Archer

      Caesar

      G6

      Nora [center][/ cent
      1. V.I.P.
        V.I.P. 26 May 2020 15: 10 New
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        Rhino

        Yavus

        PLL 09

        Boxer RCH

        EVA

        Who can what systems, he does wink
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 26 May 2020 23: 20 New
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          Almost all wheeled self-propelled guns on a chassis from vehicles are simply guns, which is not at all the same thing as "a gun + automatic loader + ammunition with a bunch of shots." Here we are among very few who have put it together. The chassis, as has been said more than once, is not at all consistent.
        2. Adimius38
          Adimius38 27 May 2020 00: 45 New
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          all the chassis in the photo are of high security and we stupidly stuck on a regular army KAMAZ, when there is already a ready KAMAZ platform of high security. for example KamAZ-53958
  • jeka424
    jeka424 26 May 2020 13: 39 New
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    Is the wheelbase resource less than the tracked one?
    1. Vidock
      Vidock 26 May 2020 16: 02 New
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      +4
      More than multiple.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 18: 35 New
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      A tracked chassis is an order of magnitude more expensive than a wheeled one; it is heavier and more difficult to maintain.
  • Adimius38
    Adimius38 26 May 2020 16: 18 New
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    +1
    To be honest, such an installation is only for ideal conditions, when no one is threatening you, that is, to fire at some sort of barmalei who have nothing more than an AK assault rifle. here it was correctly noticed that security is worse and this system will lose on a net in conditions of complete impassability.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 26 May 2020 16: 29 New
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    We even know where such a machine is appropriate to test. Of course in Syria.
  • U-58
    U-58 26 May 2020 16: 34 New
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    +1
    I looked at this new Coalition and the thought came that it was an export option.
    Exactly for Syria and Field Marshal Hawtor.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 May 2020 18: 41 New
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      Rather, to replace part D 30 Hyacinths Mast B and Acacia in our army. It's time to move on to a single artillery system.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 26 May 2020 18: 59 New
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        Quote: Vadim237
        It's time to move on to a single artillery system.
        Recently, they wrote here that a coalition like 3 Msta is worth it - we will remain without pants.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 27 May 2020 13: 57 New
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          Not much was written here.
  • spectr
    spectr 26 May 2020 18: 27 New
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    I do not know its characteristics, but I suspect that, unlike the tracked version, it can be transported by plane.
  • K-50
    K-50 26 May 2020 21: 17 New
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    It seems to me that armor protection will be unnecessary. Enough protection against precipitation, plus air conditioning in the fighting compartment, unless they make it uninhabited. With modern automation of processes, there is no need for this, especially since the loading of shells and charges is automated.
  • zwlad
    zwlad 26 May 2020 22: 32 New
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    Shaitan mobile
    Imagine how everything bounces when fired
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 27 May 2020 01: 58 New
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    +1
    On the chassis of the BZKT it would be more interesting, it is a pity the KZKT was ditched.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 27 May 2020 11: 40 New
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    +1
    Many commentators rightly mention that a howitzer on a wheeled chassis is inferior to a tracked one in moving off-road - this is true.
    However, we must not forget that the overwhelming majority of cases are transported by wheeled vehicles, tankers are exclusively on a wheeled chassis, and once the tracked vehicles are forced to replenish their fuel supplies from wheeled ATZs, they are forced to leave the area of ​​operations, to the replenishment areas of BC and fuel supply - i.e. remains tied to a network of paved roads (exotic cases of refueling and BC, helicopter supplies, we do not take into consideration - these are exceptional mass methods).

    In most cases, the maneuver on the roads is sufficient to compensate for the shortcomings of the chassis through the radius of artillery.
    Paved roads in the European part allow maneuvering artillery on a wheeled chassis efficiently - except for some difficult off-road and seasonal mud roads.
    So it’s a very relevant development.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 28 May 2020 04: 18 New
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      And where are BTZ-3 delhi? Have you really abandoned the production of tankers based on BMP?
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 28 May 2020 13: 04 New
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        Quote: Nehist
        And where are BTZ-3 delhi? Not really abandoned the production of tankers based on BMP


        Developed passed the test and that's all.
        Oil workers don’t take it - expensive, the military don’t take it - I don’t know why.
        Apparently safer to withdraw vehicles from the battlefield for refueling and supply.
        And BTZ-3 transported only 3 tons of fuel.
        For comparison, ATZ-9 delivers 9 cubic meters of fuel in Urash or KAMAZ - about 10 tons are delivered.
        That is, from ATZ-9 to the fueling area, BTZ must make more than three walkers in order to transfer the fuel supply.
        In my opinion, the topic has safely fallen from lack of funding.
  • ric
    ric 27 May 2020 12: 07 New
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    The designer of this miracle must be given a medal on his neck, for this know-how. The experience of using the Shell with such cabins has not yet taught anything to the unfortunate saw cutters of Russia
    1. agond
      agond 27 May 2020 18: 05 New
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      I completely agree with the opinion that to shoot from a long-barreled gun with a caliber of 152 ai from the Kamaz chassis, even if a four-axle thing is possible, but very hacking, is the same as firing a bullet from a bicycle trunk, it’s worse only if you put a mortar in the gazelle’s body and to fumble. It’s just that the designers of the whole world were carried away by this fashion and race created, by analogy with caterpillar, wheel mounts, although there is no analogy, caterpillar equipment has much more possibilities in this regard and you can achieve them on wheels only if you put a gun in the body of a mining truck. From an engineering point of view, it would be more correct to carry a gun in the back of a truck, and to shoot it down to the ground using hydraulic means,
      1. bk316
        bk316 27 May 2020 22: 48 New
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        From an engineering point of view, it would be more correct to carry a gun in the back of a truck, and to shoot it down to the ground using hydraulic means,

        And the truck leaves - Here it is a gloomy genius.
        Look at such things there - called outriggers. So "from the wheels" he does not shoot.
        I’ll reveal a terrible secret that it doesn’t shoot from caterpillars either - there’s a fig file called the opener belay laughing Google something .... "hyacinth coulter"
        1. agond
          agond 28 May 2020 09: 16 New
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          Quote: bk316
          So "from the wheels" he does not shoot.

          You attributed to me the words "from the wheels" which are not in my text, I say "shoot from the Kamaz chassis" which is equipped with what you call outriggers and put me minus, and the opener is not a mandatory accessory of artillery on a caterpillar track, for example, in the Coalition -SV it is invisible ... and then, yes, you can strengthen the truck frame and equip it with outriggers, add a coulter to set up a tower with a gun on top and shoot, but as an engineer I declare, it’s much easier to create a removable tower on the stove and shoot it from the ground without bothering with reinforcing the construction of the truck. and in general, the truck must carry goods. If a truck with a working cannon fails at the top, it will not go anywhere, and if the cannon is removed it can be rearranged to another truck., and keep in mind that the gun mount is an order of magnitude more expensive than the car
          1. bk316
            bk316 28 May 2020 13: 56 New
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            The fact is that everything that I wrote and did, fixed in the figure, will now remain FOREVER

            Have you ever designed an instrument as an engineer? Even if not self-propelled but towed.
            You can do without a coulter if you put the tower on a 30 ton tracked tractor. You can even 30 tons of stove. Only then will KAMAZ not use this weapon anywhere.

            It’s no coincidence that I wrote about the gloomy genius. There are dozens of guns with a layout like the coalition-sv2 in the world. They are in service. And show where your circuit is used?
            Seriously speaking, the tower is superfluous, you need to put the gun directly on the frame, but this is probably difficult due to unification with the tracked version of the system.
            1. agond
              agond 28 May 2020 21: 18 New
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              Quote: bk316
              Have you ever designed an instrument as an engineer?

              No, I didn’t design it, and in general the topic is not about guns, but about how to install them on a car, while the idea has repeatedly been expressed that the chassis of the four-axle KamAZ for a 152 mm gun is weak, and it would be nice to use Baz since it will be more durable, you can to get to Bells, which will definitely pull, but all this can be avoided if you don’t set out to shoot from the car’s chassis. And the fact that no one in the world makes gun mounts removable is a minus to customers and designers, because if you limit yourself only to transporting a removable gun, you can greatly expand the fleet of vehicles used and optionally use four-axle cars, by the way they all have a rather long frame that will always lose in shorter strength.