Data on Soviet losses during the Great Patriotic War

One of the topics that is often discussed in relation to stories World War II - this is the theme of the losses of the USSR, specifically losses in the army and navy. The numbers differ, and often at times. In some sources, data on losses exceeds the data from other sources by millions. Therefore, the question with accurate data about what kind of losses our country suffered during the war years, in fact, still remains open.

Candidate of Historical Sciences Alexei Isaev talks about the losses of the Red Army.

One of the difficulties that the historian speaks about is that the documents of the units and formations that ended up in the German "cauldrons" at the initial stage of the war turned out to be lost. For this reason, it was almost impossible to reliably establish how many soldiers and officers were captured, and how many died during the fighting. The second problem - for many years, data on the losses of the Red Army were under the heading "secret."

When the data began to be declassified, information appeared about the irretrievable losses of the USSR Armed Forces on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, in Nazi captivity, about those who died from wounds in hospitals. This is about 8,6 million people. But these data appeared back in the days of the existence of the USSR, but after its collapse, unaccounted for victims began to be revealed.

The story of the losses in the Second World War on the channel Historian TV:

Comments

[rocket757]

The great tragedy of our country!
I'd like to finish everything FOR HUMAN! So that no one is forgotten.

[tanki tanks]

Some recently declassified data about the Great Patriotic War can be found at https://pamyat-naroda.ru/

[Mavrikiy]

Clever, although neat in expressions.

[The leader of the Redskins]

We will not know exactly these losses ever. But even the most understated of these numbers are terrible.

[tanki tanks]

Find out, then find out. But the numbers are gigantic! People always, by all means, do not remember!

[tagil]

The price of the victory of the USSR over fascist Germany and its satellites:
World War II claimed about 27 million lives of citizens of the USSR.
Among the victims of the war:
11 troops
13 are the civilian population of the country.
From the civilian population:
intentionally exterminated by the occupiers - 7,4 million
died at work in Germany - 2,2 million
died out from starvation in the occupation - 4,1 million
About a million people cannot be fully assigned to any category of victims of the USSR in the war (for example, deserters, traitors and volunteers, former Soviet citizens who fought on the side of Germany).
Of the total number of the destroyed population, about 30-35% are women, including 10-15% of "reproductive age". As a result, the indirect losses for this indicator of two maternal generations can be estimated at no less than 15-20 million.
Thus, the losses from the war of 1941-1945. in general, they can be estimated at least 40-45 million people ...
General (irretrievable and sanitary) losses of the Red Army and Navy for the entire war with Germany 1941-1945. make up:
29 592 749 people.
Including:
5 people were killed and died during the evacuation stage,
died from wounds in hospitals - 1 people.
Non-combat irretrievable losses amounted to 540 580 people.
Missing, captured and unaccounted for losses - 4 people.
Total irretrievable losses of the army (killed, missing, captured and died from wounds in hospitals) amounted to -11 people.
Sanitary losses amounted to - 18 319 723 recorded wounds. Military doctors put into operation more than 10 million people, of whom not less than a third with repeated injuries. The total number of wounded, shell-shocked, and burned soldiers and officers over the four years of the war amounted to 15 million ...
More than 2 600 000 people became completely disabled.
The average monthly losses of troops and fleets amounted to about 10,5% of the size of the army (more than 20,5 thousand people a day, including more than 8 thousand killed) ...

Here are more or less accurate figures, but you are right until the last dead we will not know. And these are scary numbers.

[Jura 27]

Quote: Tagil

The price of the victory of the USSR over fascist Germany and its satellites:
World War II claimed about 27 million lives of citizens of the USSR.
Among the victims of the war:
11 troops

The number of dead and missing is already 1,5 million more: action Russia 24 "We Remember Everyone"
"12 677 857 servicemen killed and missing during the Great Patriotic War."
And this, only those on which there are documents.
In total, about 30 million people were lost during the war.

[tagil]

Everything is possible. This data is already several years old, so the figures will be updated every year. And all the same terrible figures. Russia still cannot recover from this war in terms of population.

[Batonkt]

"12 677 857 servicemen killed and missing during the Great Patriotic War." My great-grandfather was twice recorded in the memory of the people as lost, although he came alive from the war and there is a funeral for his wife’s great-grandfather - also alive, cross them out please.

[zenion]

The farther from the war, the greater the losses. In 20-50 years, it turns out that, due to the refinement of the data, not a single man remained in the USSR. In order to continue to fight, women underwent surgery by sewing eggs and selecting a revolver. Only one thing is doubtful, where will they get so many eggs? Will the Lend-Lease Provide for the States?

[Blacksmith 55]

I am surprised at the attitude in the world about those who died in WWII.
According to known data, 6 million Jews were killed.
This is official.
In the USSR, 26-27 million died, if we take away the dead soldiers (8-9), about 18 million civilians died. This is 3 times more than Jews.
Why is it only talking about the Holocaust?
Why does NO ONE mention this?

[carnifexx]

Japanese troops are even less likely to recall the occupation of China by Japanese forces.

[AU Ivanov.]

In Belarus, one in three died. Holocausts have a rest.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

In Belarus, one in three died. Holocausts have a rest.

Of the 3 million Belarusians who died, about a million were Jews.

[Zeev Zeev]

Firstly, Soviet fighters who died on the territory of the BSSR were also included in the number of dead residents of Belarus (in 1941 they were recorded as permanently residing in the republic) and prisoners of war who died in camps on the territory of the BSSR. In addition, from 800 thousand to a million dead in Belarus were Jews.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Apparently from the percentage of the dead to the rest. Moreover, the Jews were exterminated on purpose. Anytime and anywhere. After all, there was the "final solution to the Jewish question." And so, as I heard, in percentage terms, the Poles suffered the most.

[lucul]

Apparently from the percentage of the dead to the remaining.

I beg of you ))))
There are more Jews in the world for the most than the official census gives - just many pretended to be German / French / Italian / and other and other ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: smith 55

I am surprised at the attitude in the world about those who died in WWII.
According to known data, 6 million Jews were killed.
This is official.
In the USSR, 26-27 million died, if we take away the dead soldiers (8-9), about 18 million civilians died. This is 3 times more than Jews.
Why is it only talking about the Holocaust?
Why does NO ONE mention this?

Israel pursues state policy, with the construction of Holocaust museums in most significant countries of the world, local Jewish communities monitor educational programs of the states of residence, etc.
At this time, the Russian Foreign Ministry is conducting witty pickets with the Americans and Ukrainians at the UN.
Russian communities in any country in the world assimilate very quickly - did you know, for example, that John Bon Jovi is Russian by birth? They do not care about the losses suffered by the USSR during the war, as well as to Russia. Therefore, they will know about the Holocaust in 300 years.

[Avior]

Did you know, for example, that John Bon Jovi is Russian in origin?

are you a little excited

John Francis Bondzhovi Jr. was born on March 2, 1962 in Perth Amboy (New Jersey, USA). He is the son of hairdresser John Francis Bongovi and florist Carol Bongovi (nee Sharkey). [2] [3] His father has Sicilian and Slovak roots, and his mother has German and Russian roots [4] [5].

[Krasnodar]

Read. In Israel, it is considered Russian. Zlobin and in his book about the States also calls him Russian

[Avior]

You know that Israel has special ideas about the origin.
Others do not distinguish between parents whether it is a mother or a father.
But "halachic Russian" sounds strange

[Krasnodar]

You see, Zlobin also considers him Russian according to Halakha - after talking with Solovoyev he became quietly cursed))

[EVDmitri]

Alas ... This is so ...

[really]

Probably the Jews have a better memory, and constantly remind themselves and others, this should not happen again !!!!!!!!

[apro]

Quote: really

Probably the Jews have a better memory, and constantly remind themselves and others, this should not happen again !!!!!!!!

It’s just economically feasible ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: apro

Quote: really

Probably the Jews have a better memory, and constantly remind themselves and others, this should not happen again !!!!!!!!

It’s just economically feasible ...

According to the Main Trophy Directorate, published in the 1990s by Russian researchers Mikhail Semiryaga and Boris Knyshevsky, about 400 thousand rail cars were removed from the USSR from Germany, including 72 thousand cars of building materials, 2885 plants, 96 power plants, 340 thousand machine tools, 200 thousand electric motors, 1 million 335 thousand livestock, 2,3 million tons of grain, one million tons of potatoes and vegetables, half a million tons of fat and sugar, 20 million liters of alcohol, 16 tons of tobacco. Telescopes from the Humboldt University Astronomical Observatory, Berlin subway cars and cruise liners were brought to the USSR. In particular, in 1950, the Compressor Plant built in Krasnodar was equipped with confiscated technological, energy, and lifting equipment from Germany.

Further, 427 million euros were paid to Russian citizens hijacked by forced labor during the period from 2000 to 2007.
About German reparations to Jews - only in Germany Jews were deprived of money, property and other valuables for billions, also happened throughout occupied Europe - so they pay high. Their happiness is that the French and Austrian Rothschilds did not show them money for the "loss of income from 1938 to 2020."
As for the special Jewish greed - I would not live in Russia - I believed

[really]

Do not boast about stupidity

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: really

Probably the Jews have a better memory, and constantly remind themselves and others, this should not happen again !!!!!!!!

This is not memory, it is ideology.
And the Holocaust museums throughout Europe and even beyond its borders, not only to remind you that this should not be repeated, but, first of all, to remind you that you are all to blame.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

This is not memory, it is ideology.
And the Holocaust museums throughout Europe and even beyond its borders, not only to remind you that this should not be repeated, but, first of all, to remind you that you are all to blame.

And what prevents the Russian people from doing the same? After all, the peoples of Western Europe are really to blame for the inhabitants of the USSR - the French SS-vts and not only them ... the whole economy worked against the Union, which led to gigantic losses of the Soviet population.
Just here you need R-A-B-O-T-A-T-b. The topic is serious. But our country is working for cutting, and not for building, and in short, and not long. Therefore, tossed, toppled.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Krasnodar

And what prevents the Russian people from doing the same?

Here I completely agree with you, for once (a).
The trouble is that we have such a mentality - we always forgive. Once punished and all forgot. Not in the sense - they lost their memory, no, we remember, but since we have punished we don’t want to return to this. You remember everything and don’t forgive.
That’s the difference between us.

[Zeev Zeev]

Because only Jews and Gypsies were killed purposefully and deliberately on a national basis. Only to exterminate the Jews were special camps built. And by the way, out of 27 million Soviet citizens who died and died of wounds, starvation, and illness (both at the front, in captivity, and in the rear), at least three million were Jews. More than half of the Jewish population of the USSR.

[Peter is not the first]

But the Slavs mean destroyed in passing?
Maybe there were documents on the resettlement and extermination of not only Jews? For example: Master Plan Ost!

“Comments and suggestions on the Ost Master Plan”, drawn up in the form of a memo for Minister Rosenberg on April 27, 1942, Dr. E. Wetzel, head of the racial and political department of the Ministry of the Occupied Eastern Territories. The official prepared this note after reviewing the project developed by the planning group III of the RSHA in December 1941 (the source itself is considered lost).
This document consists of four sections: 1) “General comments on the Ost master plan”; 2) “General comments on the issue of Germanization, especially about the future attitude towards the inhabitants of the former Baltic states”; 3) “To the solution of the Polish question”; 4) "On the issue of future treatment of the Russian population."

The last section is devoted to the “Russian question”. The author of the notes attaches him great importance in the context of "the whole Eastern problem." He gives the point of view of the doctor of anthropological sciences Wolfgang Abel, who proposed either to completely destroy the Russians or to Germanize a certain part of them that has “obvious Nordic signs”. On this occasion, Wetzel writes: "The path proposed by Abel to eliminate the Russians as a people, not to mention the fact that its implementation would hardly be possible, is also not suitable for us for political and economic reasons."
In response to this, Wetzel offers his own version of "solving the Russian problem", which provides for "separate national development", "weakening of the Russian people in racial terms" and "undermining the biological strength of the people" through a series of measures leading to fertility reduction. He also recommends promoting the separation of Siberians from Russians.

The Germans had plans for everyone.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%9E%D1%81%D1%82

[Zeev Zeev]

which provides for “separate national development”, “weakening of the Russian people in racial terms” and “undermining the biological strength of the people” through a series of measures leading to a reduction in the birth rate

This is not mass destruction in special camps, right?

[Peter is not the first]

Yes, I agree. There was no order on the mass extermination of Slavs in the camps, or simply not yet known. But even without an order, the destruction was carried out both in the death camps, in the same ones in which Jews were killed, and in prisoner of war camps.
And the Germans acted not only on orders, but on the contrary, they killed, relieving themselves of any responsibility in accordance with the Barbarossa plan:

Along with the “Order of the Commissioners” and the “Orders for the Treatment of Soviet Prisoners of War” issued in connection with the implementation of the “Barbarossa Plan”, the decree “On the application of military jurisdiction in the Barbarossa region” was one of the Wehrmacht's criminal orders.

For actions committed by Wehrmacht personnel and service personnel against enemy civilians, there will be no compulsory prosecution even in cases where these actions are a war crime or misconduct.

[Zeev Zeev]

Death camps (not to be confused with concentration camps) were created exclusively for Jews and Gypsies. And only Jews and Gypsies were purposefully killed, both in camps and in shooting ditches. Representatives of other nationalities could be killed because of mental illness, because of participation in underground organizations, because of the inability to work. But not because of nationality. The Nazis destroyed the same village of Lidice in order to intimidate the Czechs after the assassination of Heydrich, and Khatyn because of the bombing of German officers on a partisan mine (the 118th schutzmanscap almost entirely consisted of Slavs from eastern Ukraine).

[Cossack 471]

Sorry for the invasion. I read the documents which indicated that it was the 118th schutzmanscap that was formed from Selyuk in Volyn

[Zeev Zeev]

The 118th Schutzmanschaft was formed in early 1942 in Kiev from former Red Army soldiers from the east of Ukraine and volunteers from the villages of the Kiev region (collective farmers). Later, a company from the 115th Schutzmanschaft was added to it, which was recruited from the "Seluk" Bukovina (Bukovinsky kuren). In the autumn-winter of 1942, the Germans banned Ukrainian symbols in both battalions (yellow-blue chevrons and tridents), removed the Westerners from command posts, replacing them with former commanders of the Red Army, arrested several members of the OUN (Melnikovites) for anti-German activities, which caused mass desertion of former allies from among the Ukrainian nationalists. As a result, in December 1942, before being sent to Belarus, the overwhelming majority of the police officers of both battalions were from the East of Ukraine, and the entire command staff served in the Red Army before the war and at the beginning of the war. And so as not to go twice - by definition, there could not be Bandera in Khatyn, since the OUN (b) went underground and stopped cooperation with the Germans even earlier than the OUN (m)

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: Blacksmith 55

Why is it only talking about the Holocaust?
Why does NO ONE mention this?

Who is stopping you from remembering your dead? Jews? Israelis? Or the fact that your own young generation does not want to know this? Who makes scumbags fry sausages on the Eternal Flame or urinate on it? Jews too?

[Blacksmith 55]

Well, my children are well acquainted with that war, read a lot, talked a lot with them about it.
And I relate, for your information, to the generation that is gradually leaving this world. And I'm sure mine are not able to urinate on the Eternal Fire.
Although I have not lived in Russia for a long time, but this is my Motherland, I was born there, grew up, went to school, and worked.

[Sergej1972]

Perhaps the point is in the ratio between survivors and the dead, and not in absolute numbers. Obviously, the percentage of deaths among the Slavs is less than the percentage of Jews killed in the entire population. Our 27 million people include the dead Soviet Jews. They are simultaneously included in the number of 6 million victims of the Holocaust.

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: Sergej1972

Perhaps the point is in the ratio between survivors and the dead, and not in absolute numbers.

I believe that this is a post-war wrong policy.
True losses were hidden because their publication would certainly raise questions about the mistakes of the Soviet leadership in the prewar and initial period of the war.
They remembered the war only once a year, for several decades it took to count the number of deaths, and the numbers each time changed by millions of people.
For 55 years after the war, the USSR Ministry of Defense practically eliminated itself from prospecting and the funeral of millions of missing soldiers and whose bones are still unburied, although it was possible to allocate soldiers for such a holy cause, instead of building summer cottages for the generals.
The collaborators received quick forgiveness, and they were reluctant to deal with them. It got ridiculous when the policemen in the 70-80s demanded themselves veteran benefits.
The Cold War interrupted work between Western and Soviet courts and, as a result, many traitors settled in the West and remained unpunished.
The interconnection of generations was interrupted, as a result, many pro-Nazi groups appeared in the country-winners of Nazism.

[demo]

Why is it only talking about the Holocaust?
Why does NO ONE mention this?

Because SOMEONE decided that a liter of blood of a Soviet person cannot be compared to a tear of a Jew.
And even you, by writing the expression - Why NO ONE mentions this? - subconsciously wrote with a capital NOBODY, and wrote with a small letter about "this".
But I would like it to be the other way around.
This "nobody" is a tiny amount. But "THIS" is a terrible figure.

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: demo

Because SOMEONE decided that a liter of blood of a Soviet person cannot be compared to a tear of a Jew.

Who? name him.

[demo]

Judging by your question, you want absolutely nothing that you ask.
Therefore, the answer may be one - this SOMEONE has a very difficult compound surname.
And it is unlikely that I will be able to reproduce it without errors.
I hope my answer satisfied you.

[Sailor]

Well, how are they the same "elite" of the human masses, the fascists did not finish their work now, it would be easier for us both in the country and in Syria. PS I'm waiting for the cons from the offended sons of Israel and their sympathizers.

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: Sailor

fascists did not finish their work

Poor thing, no Bavarian beer left.

[Sailor]

I don’t drink beer, but apparently they managed to circumcise you.

[Glory1974]

The losses of 8,6 million people were calculated by a specially organized commission at the end of the 80s, under Gorbachev, when they began to pour mud on the country with might and main. Since then, there have been no other official data.

[Pessimist22]

This is the loss of the military, and civilian 19 million, the Germans are just animals and not people, and their descendants are exactly the same.

[polar fox]

Quote: Pessimist22

Germans are just animals and not people and their descendants are exactly the same.

strange even ... ALL the geyropa invaded, and only the Germans were to blame ...

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: polar fox

strange even ... ALL the geyropa invaded, and only the Germans were to blame ...

And not even all of Germany. Neither East Germany nor Austria denazified. Germany is only 1/3 of the Reich.

[Sergej1972]

Before the merger in Germany, it was 60 million, and in the GDR only 17. In Austria, 6 million. Denazification was everywhere.

[carnifexx]

The fact that such a commission was only at the end of the 80s does not speak in favor of the times when they did not begin to "throw mud at the country with might and main." Calculating the real number of victims is a worthy task. Hiding and underestimating is bad.

[tatra]

Firstly, during Brezhnev’s time, they always talked about 20 million dead Soviet citizens during World War II. Secondly, everything was done in the anti-Soviet Perestroika with vile and criminal purposes, including to oust Hitler and the Nazis from responsibility for their killing of Soviet people, to blame the killing of Soviet people on Soviet power.

[apro]

Quote: tatra

Perestroika was done for vile and criminal purposes, including to otmazyvat Hitler and the Nazis from responsibility for their killing of Soviet people,

Tatra disagrees. This is exaggerated for one purpose. To show the inefficiency and crime of the USSR. Communists.

[tatra]

Why don't you agree? After all, all this - both the justification of the White Cossacks, the White Guards interventionists, and the justification of Hitler and the Nazis and their accomplices from among the citizens of the USSR - all this was done by the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people in order to slander the Bolshevik Communists. Plus, because of their maniacal passion for criticism, create their next anti-Soviet myth "how bad, ineffective, the scoops and commies fought, the enemy was filled with corpses."

[apro]

The main goal is not Hitler's justification ... but the destruction of the USSR.

[tatra]

Well, it is natural that, in order to justify the destruction of the USSR, the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people acquitted the crimes of all the external and internal enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, including the crimes of the invaders of Russia and the Soviet Union, the invaders, Hitler and the Nazis. And the blame for their crimes was blamed on Soviet power.

[AU Ivanov.]

The Communists didn’t have to slander, they themselves were liquidated.
While the fighters were motivated by Soviet agitation, we really didn’t really fight. But when they raised the defense of the Motherland, home, their land on the shield and remembered the undeservedly forgotten exploits of their ancestors, then the Germans were driven.

[apro]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The Communists didn’t have to slander, they themselves were liquidated.

In Berlin 1945 ???

[AU Ivanov.]

In Moscow 1991.

[apro]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

In Moscow 1991

But was the leadership of the CPSU (b) and personally Comrade IVStalin aware of this?
No need to jump over your head ...

[AU Ivanov.]

Judged by the results. The result of the communist rule is the collapse of the Power, which has been collected for more than one century.

[apro]

Once again. What does the leadership of the country of 1991-1941 have to do with the events of 1945?
That is, I understand your idea. That the Communists in their programs planned the collapse of the USSR? With the dismemberment and destruction of the population? These are their purposeful actions since 1917? Do I understand you correctly?

[victor50]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The result of the communist rule is the collapse of the Power, which has been collected for more than one century.

The result of the rule of the capitalists is 1917 and the collapse of the state. The result of the rule of the capitalists is its current state. This is not about you. I remember - there is nowhere to park in Finland and a crowd on the border. The origins of hatred of the Communists did not grow from until 1917?

[carnifexx]

Quote: tatra

Firstly, during Brezhnev’s time, they always talked about 20 million dead Soviet citizens in World War II.

Demographic data indicate losses of at least 26 million. So 20 million is an understatement of losses, whether conscious or not.

Quote: tatra

Secondly, everything was done in the anti-Soviet Perestroika with vile and criminal purposes, including to oust Hitler and the Nazis from responsibility for their killing of Soviet people, to blame the killing of Soviet people on Soviet power.

Intentions are far less important to me than actions. And here in more detail: How did you know about the vile goals (read the diaries or what)? How the Nazis were "discouraged"? How was the responsibility for the killing of Soviet citizens by the Nazis shifted onto the Soviet government?

[tatra]

Firstly, the Germans are still counting their losses in World War II, and the numbers are still growing, and for some reason no one blames them for having deliberately underestimated these losses before. Secondly, your second paragraph is as if you have just come out of a coma. ALL anti-Soviet Perestroika is the purpose of justifying the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, it is a deliberately impudent, demonstrative slander against the Soviet power, this is the justification of the crimes of the external and internal enemies of the Soviet power.
And where did Solzhenitsyn's mythical "110 million victims of communism" come from? In addition to his deceitful 66 million "victims of communism", he also added to them all the Soviet citizens killed by the Nazis, sharply increasing the death toll - he has 44 million people.

[AU Ivanov.]

Solzhenitsyn is partially right: historians call the figure of 42 million demographic losses of the USSR, except for 27 million who died at the hands of the Nazis, this figure includes children who were not born due to the war. 15 million unborn babies.

[Glory1974]

Solzhenitsyn is partially right: historians call the figure of 42 million demographic losses of the USSR,

It is necessary to separate military losses and demographic ones.
It cannot be considered: a company in battle lost 10 people, taking into account demographic losses.

[carnifexx]

In the war, the Nazis deliberately underestimated combat losses, overestimated the merits of their aces. Significantly overstated the victims of the Allied bombing (Dresden 10 times).
About whom I will not comment.

Quote: tatra

ALL anti-Soviet Perestroika is the purpose of justifying the capture of the USSR by the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, it is a deliberately impudent, demonstrative slander against the Soviet power, it is the justification of the crimes of the external and internal enemies of the Soviet power

You are very sensitive to the Soviet state power. Power is not sacred if it is not theocracy. I have not come across conventional theses of the times of "perestroika", which would make good enemies of the Soviet state and the PEOPLE. About what you have come across and how do you know that this is "deliberately insolent, demonstrative slander" I have already asked you. I still have not forgotten and am waiting for an answer.

Solzhenitsyn cited the numbers that he came across, these were approximate figures based on advanced fortune telling techniques on coffee grounds, no more. Now his data on repressions are nowhere to be considered valid.
The character himself is a great example of how the repressive Soviet system nurtured people who would hate it with all the fibers of the soul. I note that all the reasons for this gave him.

[AU Ivanov.]

During Brezhnev, much of the history of the Great Patriotic War was criminally hushed up: the events of the initial period of the war, the Battle of Rzhev and much more. Yes, and much was misinterpreted.

[Humpty]

Quote: tatra

during Brezhnev’s time, they always talked about 20 million dead Soviet citizens during World War II. Secondly, in anti-Soviet Perestroika everything was done with vile and criminal goals

Look at this data https://www.currenttime.tv/a/27724190.html
To the end, including the inscription in small print below. Especially the loss of civilian population of the republics that are far from the front line. I remember the inscription on the monument 93000 did not return home from the front. The data provided by reference cite already 70000 killed at the front and 50000 dead civilians. I do not blaspheme, but I'm sorry how to understand this? Personally, you seem to understand this. I still have a couple of thoughts, for which little-substantiated loss figures are still instilled.

[Ingenegr]

Overstating is also bad

[carnifexx]

Quote: Ingenegr

Overstating is also bad

Agree

[Glory1974]

what such a commission was only in the late 80s does not speak in favor of the times when they did not start

Data on losses were before. They were also voiced by Stalin. The commission was assembled to expose the communist regime. But since the figures did not suit the liberals, there are still discussions and attempts to wind up losses in the direction of increase.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: glory1974

The losses of 8,6 million people were calculated by a specially organized commission at the end of the 80s, under Gorbachev, when they began to pour mud on the country with might and main. Since then, there have been no other official data.

I respect Isaev with respect, but I can’t believe in the figure of almost 11 million.
Not because I like the figure of 8.6 million more, but because almost 11 million is not invested in logic

[tagil]

Among the victims of the war:
11 troops
13 are the civilian population of the country.

So Isaev was close to the truth, this only applies to the army, with the civilian population even worse.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Tagil

So Isaev was close to the truth, this only applies to the army, with the civilian population even worse.

Oh how !!!
And who are you? Historian? Where does the digital come from?

[tagil]

You know, several years ago I came across research on the losses of countries in 2 MB and downloaded myself, but I don’t remember who, where. I laid out the figures in more detail above, everything is written there on the losses of our country.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Our losses in the Second World War are huge, but the Germans and their allies got theirs.

[tatra]

And those who are scattered with anti-Soviet cliches do not even understand their logical conclusions. Thus, those who argue that Stalin is guilty of fewer Germans than Soviet citizens have died, this proves that they accuse Stalin of not ordering to kill as many peaceful Germans as the Nazis killed Soviet civilians. Then they would be happy.

[Squelcher]

Whoever expands on the slogans and lies of Soviet propaganda without logical conclusions, squeals that the Communists were impeccable and almost holy and agelochki looks very stupid and funny. By the way, from 37 to 38 years, 740 thousand people were officially shot in the USSR.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Citizen, did you learn to lie with Solzhenitsyn like that? There is an official document. It indicates that from 21 to 54 years in the USSR, only about 4 million people were arrested. Of these, 799 thousand were sentenced to death. The number of convicts includes not only the so-called political, but also killers, robbers, etc. I repeat, this is archival data, an official document. And keep your nonsense about the billion people shot personally by Stalin with you.

[Squelcher]

Lies from the Communist traitors? Eat your own about the communist angels yourself.
According to documented evidence, in 1937-1938, 1 people were convicted for political reasons, of which 344 923 were sentenced to capital punishment, the rest are murderers and embezzlers.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Throwing out this linden you only make yourself funny.
Google and find the memorandum of the Prosecutor General of the USSR Rudenko to Khrushchev. And do not show this yellowish paper to anyone else, do not expose yourself as an idiot.

[Squelcher]

Well, the letter about the extrajudicial system of extermination of people, but the Communists did not use the judicial gentlemen? Do not expose yourself as an idot, Mr. Communist.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Citizen, you lie and you yourself don’t understand what you’re talking about.

[Squelcher]

Well, well, the fact that Rokossovsky K.K.
And there was no red terror and extermination of people by class?

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Terror in Russia was of different colors. Both red and white. Or do you prefer to see only one side? Here I see, but here I do not see?
Rokosovsky was kept in custody on suspicion of various bad things. Nevertheless, he was not convicted, but released. But those who denounced him were planted. And those who conducted the investigation by the way, too.
Well, I also do not understand interrogations using physical impact and categorically condemn them. This was an unforgivable mistake by the country's leadership.

[Squelcher]

History is multifaceted, it is necessary to look from all sides, and not just from the idealized
refined propaganda by representatives of both liberals and supporters of communism. The history of Russia is more than 1000 years old, however, representatives of the red idea love to pour dirt on the history of Russia, at the same time they will be weary and frantic when an unpleasant truth is heard about the time of the reign of com party, only 70 years old, which, despite all the sacrifices and achievements, has ended a complete failure that I had to ask and accept humanitarian assistance from the conditional enemy.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

You contradict yourself. You tell me about the versatility of history, but you yourself look only from one side. Bring some kind of fake information with false numbers, passing it off as supposedly official data.
I am far from a fan of the Communists, but for some time I’ve been trying to understand what they did right and what didn’t. And for me it turns out that in that pre-war it was probably impossible in another way. It was impossible to do without repression, landings, links, executions. Not that situation was. It is now easy for us to reason and draw conclusions. And then the country was rebuilt, almost from scratch. And those or other victims were inevitable. Of course they screwed it up, but they did a lot.
If now suddenly return the 58th article, do you think a lot of people will fall under it? All these stolen bureaucrats, unscrupulous businessmen, negligent heads of cities, regions. All of these people were then called short and clear - pests. And they received a deserved punishment for their crimes.

[Squelcher]

What was K. Miretskov guilty of?
In the winter of 1941, Meretskov had a conflict with an employee of the Special Department who was following him, whom Kirill Afanasyevich said that he did not want to live and that the special officers in the NKVD had urinated on his head [9]. According to the testimony of a colleague of O. F. Souvenir, Major General A. I. Korneev, who was personally present during the conversation between I. Kh. Baghramyan and S. K. Timoshenko, the latter said that in a personal conversation with Meretskov he asked why he self-incriminating himself, the marshal said that he was bullied, “taunted”, and in case of testimony they promised not to touch the family.
Without this, too, a new happy country cannot be built? Without scarab? Without executions? It is impossible to build happiness on the blood and lies of what the Communists have fully proved. The Russian Empire for 5 years was dying in the agony of civil war, the USSR collapsed like a balloon, not even one Communist did not join the partisans.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Those real communists just proved the opposite - they built a country, gave people jobs, education, medicine, science, culture. You are crying about the shot. And you look at whom and for what you put against the wall. Do you pour tears on Vlasovites and Bandera? Or according to Tukhachevsky and the team? For whom exactly? Yes, they were innocently convicted, it is a fact. But the Empire, how many were there? You know? I personally do not. And you don’t need to take any separate example and take it to the absolute.
If you are not aware of the collapse of the Russian Empire, it’s not the Communists at all. Remind you who and when overthrew the king? Probably a good king was Nikolai the Bloody once he was kicked out with a rag with a rag from the throne. Apparently the people were tired of a good well-fed life and decided to overthrow the king the priest.

[Squelcher]

What are Vlasov and Bandera in the 30s?
It is a pity Bandera was little regretted, the Communist Party always spared strangers, but not Russian.

Well, and the Soviet Union from a good and satisfying life in the scrap of history threw the Communists?
Maybe they ran away from a satisfying and free life behind the Berlin wall and stole the latest combat aircraft, maybe? How many defectors were from cap countries and from the USSR compare for the sake of interest.
You don’t have to sing the old cranberries about the tsar, you can compare how many were executed in the Russian Empire and under the rule of the Communists, you will be pleasantly surprised although it’s easier to believe propaganda stupidly. The same song about the USSR was overthrown, ruined from a good and satisfying life, hunted for western clothes, and packs of bottles collected?
At the last.
Do not tell me how many were shot and tortured in the dungeons, let's suppose our fellow citizens in Norway to achieve social well-being? Maybe more than the communist Pol Pot.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Quote: Squelcher

Well, and the Soviet Union from a good and satisfying life in the scrap of history threw the Communists?

Of course, life in the USSR was not heavenly and fucking full, but it wasn’t the same as you try to imagine it either.

Quote: Squelcher

Maybe they ran away from a satisfying and free life behind the Berlin wall and stole the latest combat aircraft, maybe? How many defectors were from cap countries and from the USSR compare for the sake of interest.

Interesting you asked a question. I opened the notorious Wikipedia and was surprised. My friend fled, fled from the cap.countries to the socialist countries, even as they fled and flew over. Do not believe me, look look.

Quote: Squelcher

You don’t need to sing the old cranberries about the tsar. You can compare how many were executed in the Russian Empire and under the rule of the Communists.

Have you heard of the Stolypin tie? They executed more like that.
And what kind of social justice was in the Russian Empire, how did they live ... A solid crack of French bread.

Quote: Squelcher

Do not tell me how many were shot and tortured in the dungeons, let's suppose our fellow citizens in Norway to achieve social well-being?

You give the wrong country as an example. Norway is a small country not claiming anything, not participating in wars and geopolitical showdowns. Without revolutions and great social cataclysms. You give an example of the United States in the era of the Great Depression, give an example of the totalitarian and dictatorial regimes of Hungary, Poland, Spain, Italy. How many dissenters were tortured and ruined there?

And lastly. And you yourself then lived in the USSR? Or is your whole personal experience reading a couple of little books of Solzhenitsyn and Rezun? I'm just curious.

[Squelcher]

I know this story about Stolypin and a tie and I know that who made this statement gave up his words and why, so pouring cranberries from the propaganda vault is the Communists' favorite thing, by the way Stolypin was killed during a terrorist act, are you a supporter of terrorism?
Norway did not destroy or torture its citizens to achieve socialism in practice, and not as communists empty promises, moreover, Norway is a parliamentary monarchy. If this method works, then why take an example from those countries that tortured and killed their citizens to obtain social justice? Am I moral like Sharikov?
I did not read Solzhenitsin, but yes, Alexander Shumilin, and Vasil Bykov, and Nekrasov in the Trenches of Stalingrad, and not only.
He lived in the USSR and I didn’t have to blow in my ears as it was happy and good, of course there were bright moments, but they were not worth those forces and sacrifices, too much price was paid.

[AU Ivanov.]

Combat losses are quite comparable. The losses of the civilian population are on the conscience of the Nazis and have nothing to do with our ability to fight.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

And taking into account the fact that in the summer of 41 the German army was the best in the world and the attack was all the same sudden, then our high losses were even justified.
Hitler bent mobilized France into a ram’s horn in 40 days, but for some reason no one has made any special claims to the French.

[carnifexx]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

And taking into account the fact that in the summer of 41 the German army was the best in the world and the attack was all the same sudden, then our high losses were even justified.

This is a conventional version accepted around the world.

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

Hitler bent mobilized France into a ram’s horn in 40 days, but for some reason no one has made any special claims to the French.

Really??? Google french give up meme

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

And taking into account the fact that in the summer of 41 the German army was the best in the world and the attack was all the same sudden, then our high losses were even justified.
Hitler bent mobilized France into a ram’s horn in 40 days, but for some reason no one has made any special claims to the French.

And the French had nowhere to retreat, their entire territory is less than the Germans captured

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

The French had an "inaccessible" Maginot Line, a mobilized army and an ally in Britain. Nevertheless, they managed to merge in no time.
The large territory of the USSR certainly played a role in the victory, but this factor was not determining.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

"inaccessible" Maginot line, mobilized army and ally in the person of Britain

Well, such as impregnable, if the Germans climbed into the forehead. And they are not fools

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

So the French are not like fools. Neither now nor now.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

The French had an "inaccessible" Maginot Line, a mobilized army and an ally in Britain. Nevertheless, they managed to merge in no time.
The large territory of the USSR certainly played a role in the victory, but this factor was not determining.

The British and French were pressed to the sea, our troops, if they didn’t fall into the cauldrons, always relied on the rear, had the opportunity to retreat, and they were able to evacuate the industry. And where should the French evacuate the industry?

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Maybe they just didn’t want to fight in full force and death if necessary?
Not in vain in their memoirs, German generals comparing the war in the west and in the east write that the war in the west was a pleasant walk compared to the war with the USSR.

[age1751]

See Isaev less. Combat losses are not comparable.

[AU Ivanov.]

Data on Krivosheev, not Isaev.

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Every family was affected by tragedy; grief is not shared by nationality.

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

By the way, the Nuremberg trials could fall apart if it weren’t for the Soviet Union, the allies in the anti-Hitler coalition in the process were beating boys, the lawyers of the former Nazi leaders, yes, and these nonhumans themselves easily refuted almost all the charges.

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Oh, Natsiks began to minus, probably the eye is piercing someone, they really do not know the obvious that was happening.

[tatra]

In general, both the Great Patriotic War and the anti-Soviet period, starting with Perestroika, are, by and large, analogs. In both cases, our country and our people suffered tremendous material and human damage; in both cases, the enemies of the Communists acquitted and justify their crimes before our country and our people slandered the Communists.

[Sergej1972]

Even if the losses of the Germans were less than ours in absolute numbers, it should be borne in mind that the German population was almost half the population of the USSR. Therefore, it seems to me that it is correct to compare the losses of the two countries and as a percentage of their population.

[boris epstein]

To the losses of Germany one must add the losses of Austria, Italy, Finland, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia as well (in 1941-1943 Czechoslovak driver mechanics fought in Czechoslovak tanks captured by Hitler in 1938, there were many Czech pilots), Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, Belgian, French, Slovak, Ukrainian, Croatian SS divisions, 15 Don cavalry corps, RON Kaminsky and Voskoboynik brigades, ROA Vlasov, all kinds of national legions: Kalmyk, Georgian, Crimean Tatar, Chechen-Ingush ... And in Lithuanian the citizens of the USSR fought in the Latvian, Estonian, Ukrainian SS divisions, in the RON, in the ROA, in the national legions. Where can these losses be considered: the losses of the USSR or the losses of Germany and allies? I personally believe that the losses of these units should be subtracted from the losses of the Red Army and added to the losses of Germany and the Allies.

[Sergej1972]

The Czechs, including here at VO, wrote repeatedly that they did not fight. I know that ethnic Czechs were in the armed forces of Slovakia. Plus, the operetta State Army of the Protectorate was involved in the security service.

[Polente the Wanderer]

This is not the first time that the losses in the Great Patriotic War have been discussed. But for some reason, neither the authors of the articles, nor the readers, simply read the Great Patriotic book without a signature stamp. Loss book -
Grigory Fedotovich Krivosheev V.M. Andronikov P.D. Burikov V.V. Gurkin

[bubalik]

specifically losses in the army.

,,, during the liberation of foreign states.

[bubalik]

specifically losses in the army

[age1751]

18-20 million died. From the war, 60% of the drafted did not return, which makes up from the officially drafted 35 million 18-20 million.

[sherenberg]

ager1751 "Military personnel were killed 18-20 million. 60% of the conscripts did not return from the war, which amounts to 35-18 million from the officially conscripted 20 million."

6,3 million dead, about whom everything is known, up to the place of burial + 3.8 million missing.
Take a look at the pre-war census (yourself) and you will find out that the population of the USSR amounted to 200 million people before the war, including 51 million men of draft age, including those who were 1941 years old in 14 and started to be called up in 1945.
out of 51 million men:
27 million called up in the Red Army
3.5 million in the NKVD
4.5 million to the Labor Army
at least 5 million unfit for military service due to health reasons
3 to 5 million men were killed by Germans in the occupied territories of the USSR
about 2 million were in camps
at least a million representatives of repressed peoples, who also stopped calling.
There remain 3-5 million people employed in hard and highly skilled jobs that cannot be replaced by women and children.
The USSR has no reserves of people! According to Soviet data! Therefore, any increase in losses of new "researchers" is an obvious absurdity when you know the big picture.
According to the Red Army.
27 million is called upon. (3 million were +24 million called for during the war years)
at the end of the war, 11 million + 1 million wounded were treated
4 million laid off for health reasons (disabled)
fatalities 6.3 million
3.8 million missing
laid off in connection with a conviction for more than 8 years, up to the execution of 0.5 million people
0.5 million people transferred to other ministries and departments
If some "researcher" claims that the dead and missing are not 10 million people, but 17 million, then he needs to squeeze these additional 7 million not only into the number of the Red Army, but also into the number of the USSR. And DO NOT OWN! NO!

[age1751]

Called 29 and 5, 5 was at the beginning of 41 years. This is official, that is, not accurate. How many did the front-line military registration and enlistment offices, say, at 41? There are no exact numbers. How many recruits called up in the territories that were subsequently occupied? Only approximate estimated numbers.

[victor50]

Quote: sperenberg

6,3 million dead, about whom everything is known, up to the place of burial + 3.8 million missing.

Have you seen the mass graves? In all that I met, more than 60 percent are unknown warriors. Look also at the books of Memory - they are in every region, every district - the same picture is there. Counted on several pages in several areas - most are reported as missing. I wonder why not count on all the books in memory of the dead soldiers? The error would be in thousands (tens, maybe hundreds of thousands), but not in millions or tens of millions of dead. Why is the data on the war still classified? In particular for spare shelves. My opinion is that the losses of the USSR have always been and remain politics, the desire to prove this or that, and at the state level they have never been the desire to count them and name them. Although ... In 1947, a courtyard detour was made in order to establish all the dead servicemen, but the data obtained as a result was closed for decades (there is a Memorial in the OBD). By the way, in the courtyard bypass cards the same picture that I mentioned - most of them are missing.

[age1751]

If you try to count so, the whole ideology of educating the people will collapse. Nobody will recount anything already. Now the main task is to tighten the German losses to our level, and ideally to exceed ours. So storytellers like Isaev try.

[Gips]

In the scientific community, Viktor Nikolayevich Zemskov has the most significant word to date. All data about any lost Isaev must check with him.
Up to 22 million of our losses. Everything else is innuendo.
You can rant for a very long time and add millions for the weight of our victory, but only this is the reverse and very dangerous side of the coin. We didn’t throw anyone with corpses.
7 million added artificially for specific purposes.
And Isaev - for a long time and stubbornly arranges ideological sabotage.
Although I have not watched this video and am not going to - I condemn it with pleasure. For I know well about the court historian, a lover of reconstruction.
Zemskov last name doctor of historical sciences, Zemskov! This is the benchmark in the study of our losses. Authoritative no. Before! 22 million. Dot.
Gorbachev and Yakovlev should sound a curse here, and not gasp sighs. Their work is to falsify data in addition to the revisionists of the past.
Thank you all for your attention.
Here there is extensive data on the "Stalinist repressions", and on prisoners, and on losses, etc.
At the same time, and video.

https://vk.com/wall-31871956_53246

[age1751]

No, he does not arrange ideological sabotage. The kid earns bread. If you don’t sing that bread in the wrong tune, you won’t earn much.

[Yuriy Malyshko]

Commanders of all ranks who directly participated in the battles were absolutely not interested in hiding or minimizing losses. For you will not show the loss, you will not receive the replenishment. Very often it turned out that a soldier who was recorded as killed, and even more often as missing, turned out to be alive (evacuated by orderlies and ended up in a hospital, left after the battle to the location of another unit, from where he could no longer be returned to his former unit) , - my father-in-law, who fought from 43rd until the end of the war, told me about this; he almost completely lost his platoon twice, so he knows it firsthand. My grandfather went missing near Kharkov in 43, naturally, was among the "losses", but it turned out that he was in captivity, then fled from it and from the middle of the 44th until the end of the war he fought again. Therefore, I believe that the losses of the Red Army are, rather, overestimated for such quite understandable reasons.

[taseka]

To become a laureate of a state prize, you have to write history "state")))

[place]

If the media work FOR the country, they will inspire the people. So that even a lost war will look like a victory. If they are in the hands of the enemy, everything will be the other way around. Therefore, if we turn to the data that cannot be forged, the picture appears somewhat different.

By the beginning of the Second World War, the population of the USSR was 190 million. After six months of hostilities, the territories were occupied by about 40 million people. Kiev and Smolensk were taken at the end of 1943, and Minsk in July 1944. That is, until the summer of 1944, tens of millions lived in the occupation. What human resources did the USSR have all this time? It turns out - 150 million.

The countries of the Hitler Axis initially had no less human resources. And in 1943 Hitler already announced a total mobilization, and in 1944 - a conscription from the age of 16. In 1945, all males from 12 to 70 years old went to the front. So who had the loss problem?

The tale about the fact that the losses of the winners are much greater than those of the losers is designed for nerds. This has never happened in the history of war.