Military Review

"Su-24 - Russian deception": Polish media about the superiority of the US Navy destroyers

431



The Russians once again sent their Su-24 aircraft to an American missile destroyer such as Arleigh Burke. In the Russian Federation and Western media, actions of this kind are considered a demonstration of strength. However, when comparing the combat capabilities of the US Navy ships and the "attacking" pennants of bombers, they should be considered as a demonstration of stupidity. This opinion was expressed by the Polish edition Defence24.

"Imaginary threat from the air"


According to him, the Russians regularly try to pose a threat to American ships from the air, considering the low span over them as skill, strength and pride. On April 17, they once again tried to repeat a similar maneuver in the waters of the Baltic, when two Belgian F-16s intercepted a pair of Su-24s trying to get closer to the Donald Cook destroyer of the Arleigh Burke type.

Earlier, on April 12, 2014, this pennant was already “attacked” by the Su-24, which supposedly used the Khibiny electronic warfare, disabling the ship’s radar.

This information turned out to be a pure hoax, which the Russians invented, and later reproduced on the Internet and on television in the Russian Federation

- notes the Polish edition.

As she believes, "rumors about the inefficiency of American destroyers that you can allegedly drop in with such ease and, therefore, theoretically, destroy" are causing great harm.


Donald Cook


“Su-24 is a great Russian deception”


Production of the Su-24 started in 1971, and since Defense24 believes that it has the same equipment: 8 tons of bombs and missiles (in the Su-24M version), a 23-mm cannon, Orion-M combat radar ( with a range of 150 km), radar warning of exposure to SPO-15C "Birch", station active interference "Gardenia". Modernization concerned only navigation and identification systems, the publication suggests.

Flights of the Su-24 over destroyers such as Arleigh Burke should be considered by American sailors only as a tourist attraction [...] their place in the museum

- considers Defense24.

As noted, the low approach of the Su-24 is not terrible for the pennants of the U.S. Navy, as they are accompanied by AWACS aircraft, shining through the air the entire route of the enemy or missiles fired by him. But the destroyers are able to cope on their own, having "the world's best naval combat system AEGIS."

Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to

- concludes the Polish edition of the clear superiority of the US Navy destroyers.

However, it is indicated that in the Baltic and in the Black Sea, the coastal-based anti-ship complexes “Ball” and “Bastion” pose a much greater threat to American ships.

Photos used:
https://news.usni.org/
431 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. novel66
    novel66 April 27 2020 10: 35 New
    34
    routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 27 2020 11: 08 New
      -13
      Quote: novel xnumx
      routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

      Фигня-фигнёй,но "вероятного противника",и по прошествии шести лет колбасит от триумфального позора USS Donald Cook (DDG-75)...

      And the Poles ... The Poles are also scared.
      Something with my memory has become
      All that was not with me - I remember.




      HELLO, CHEF! EVERYTHING LOST, EVERYTHING LOST!
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 April 27 2020 11: 18 New
        +5
        But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.
        Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.

        After Cook, the same thing was written about at least one more destroyer (he’s like in the World Cup now), but already more confused and stupid.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 27 2020 11: 33 New
          +4
          Quote: Max1995
          But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.

          В сети, на ВО возможно тоже,"разбирали" и "Боинг" МН-17 (сбитый ПВО/истребителем/взорванный) у нас...

          И что ? Это как-то пролило свет на скрытое ? И каких при этом "дядек-тёток",со всех заинтересованных сторон не задействовали...
          Quote: Max1995
          Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.


          Is it really customary to blow this whole world? And actually, according to recent information dosed by the Russian side, Cook's problems arose not from exposure to the Su-24, but because of the use of electronic warfare from the coast of Crimea ...

          "Ржавый русский Су-24",своим пролётом лишь морально добил беспомощную команду эсминца...
          1. Charik
            Charik April 27 2020 12: 48 New
            +9
            that's about how some container was able to drown out ship electronics - the option of ground-based eb is more real
            1. vikot9
              vikot9 April 27 2020 17: 03 New
              -4
              There wasn’t any electronic warfare at all, this is a fictional nonsense
          2. figwam
            figwam April 27 2020 13: 27 New
            +9
            Quote: Insurgent
            Ржавый русский Су-24",своим пролётом лишь морально добил беспомощную команду эсминца...

            Namely, they were jammed by modern systems, but they can be destroyed by an old bomber, the Yanks were shown what would happen to them in reality, but apparently they do not understand, stupid.
          3. Maks1995
            Maks1995 April 27 2020 13: 36 New
            -5
            Wah! This is great ... yes, yes, Ukrainians call it overpower!

            From the shore !! Soak your EW destroyer somewhere near the center of the World Cup !!! Yes, and disguise it as EW Su !!! Yes, so that they all wrote down tearful letters and were covered with horror! Yes, so that no one has noticed this, except cheers-media !!
            In general, a great breakthrough.

            No wonder the breakthrough began to multiply.

            The destroyer "Porter" later, read on the Internet, it already displayed 3 SU, with the same result - electronic warfare, letters, dismissals in tears, and no one except ura-smi did not notice, even the Chinese ...
          4. seregatara1969
            seregatara1969 April 27 2020 21: 46 New
            +1
            In the war, the U-2 became a formidable night bomber. It terrified the enemy, and the Su-24 was older. Ukrainians out of the maxim still bullet. Here the price + efficiency is important
      2. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 April 27 2020 19: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: Insurgent
        after six years, sausages from the triumphant shame of the USS Donald Cook

        "позор Кука" только в ваших фантазиях. Не было ничего, кроме банального облета корабля. Не несут и никогда не несли Су-24 "Хибины"...
        И никто в мире, кроме российских СМИ определенного толка, "позора Кука" не заметил...
      3. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 28 2020 01: 36 New
        -1
        Quote: Insurgent
        Фигня-фигнёй,но "вероятного противника",и по прошествии шести лет колбасит от триумфального позора USS Donald Cook (DDG-75).

        Эта позорная комедия с Кукком, Сушкой и "Хибинами" хороший индикатор о адекватности, или информированности тех, кто эту тему постоянно мусолит. А если человек адекватный и не кретин, но всё равно морочит людям голову сказками о "увольнениях испуганных матросов с Кука после инцедента с Су24 и Хибинами, которых на Су-24 никогда не было, но которыми заглушили радар величиной с хрущёвку", то видимо работа такая, иначе не понятна мотивация. Непонятно в чём позор комманды Кука, от чего их должно колбасить? Что не сбили Сушку? По тем, кто такие приказы отдаёт, устраивать авиашоу для американских матросов, рискуя жизнями как пилотов Сушки, так и матросов Кука, тюрма плачет, как по мне. К тому же такие манёвры это нарушение договора СССР и США с 70х годов, после того как в аналогичном шоу на глазах американских матросов разбился об воду советский ЛА.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 28 2020 10: 36 New
          +3
          Tu-16, by the way, 9 crew members
    2. avg
      avg April 27 2020 12: 11 New
      13
      We not only scare them, we train, we are looking for vulnerabilities in AEGIS.
      low flying Su-24 is not terrible pennants of the U.S. Navy, as they are accompanied by AWACS aircraft, shining through the air the entire route of the enemy or missiles fired by him.

      Is our Su-24 alone fighting with all of NATO?
      Su-24s can fly over American ships ... because Americans allow them to

      So the Americans roam the Baltic only because we are not opposing.
      [...] their place in the museum

      Весь польский бомбардировочный парк -120 истребителей-бомбардировщиков Су-22 с коэффициентом б.г. 0.3-04. Что-то "великий польский гений" за все годы не чего своего не создал.
      Словом: "Поляки - такие поляки..." wink
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 27 2020 12: 25 New
        +4
        the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie
        1. Charik
          Charik April 27 2020 12: 50 New
          +3
          with a dozen with any long-range
          1. novel66
            novel66 April 27 2020 12: 53 New
            +5
            given the amount of air defense equipment on board - I doubt very much
            1. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 13: 03 New
              0
              Perhaps something will go out of pieces 20-X59 of some kind of modification, they seem to be low-profile, maybe they maneuver?
            2. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 17: 14 New
              0
              96 cells-3 cells of each launcher are used under the crane to reload units, reducing the total number of cells available for missiles by 6 units — that is, 90 — let's say half the air defense — 40-50pcs SM, I think pieces 30-40PCR — will be a problem for Burke- and this is 20pcs-Su24, but here he was defeated by one laughing
              1. Mimoprohodil
                Mimoprohodil April 27 2020 21: 00 New
                -1
                it is possible to put 1 RIM-4 ESSM in 162 cell. There will then be 30 SM-6 and 80 ESSM, instead of 50 SM-6
                1. Charik
                  Charik April 27 2020 21: 58 New
                  -1
                  ohhh actually then how many PCRs in one salvo do you need to deal with Burke? or they’ll kill Cook in the Baltic for a week, then first X25mi from two Su24-the first video from F16 — where he flew to Cook and there are two more Dry hawks , today CookBird has already drowned 2 x35mi wassat
                  1. Nikolai Grek
                    Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 03: 33 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Charik
                    ohhh actually then how many pcr in one salvo do you need to deal with burke?

                    You overestimate the abilities of Amer’s weapons !!! wink lol
                    1. Charik
                      Charik April 28 2020 10: 03 New
                      0
                      I’m overestimating, I think it's quite early that the Su24 can not oppose Burke in the context of the described situation, even at extremely low altitudes, at least from maximum range am
                      1. Nikolai Grek
                        Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: Charik
                        I think

                        It's your problems!!! wink laughing
                      2. Charik
                        Charik April 28 2020 17: 58 New
                        0
                        it's not my problem that the ship is stronger than the plane laughing wassat
            3. Alexander mosin
              Alexander mosin April 28 2020 01: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Charik
              I think 30-40PCR pieces will be a problem for Burke, and this is 20pcs-Su24, but here he was defeated by one

              And do you think that in the case of a serious mess, this Cook will walk alone on the seas? The USA has only 100 of them, additionally Tikhonderogs and a bunch of all sorts of others, as part of the AUG. Cook will see Sushka’s approach long before she can launch a rocket at him, not only thanks to her radars, but also to the AWACS or other AWACS radars. So if you are going to sink one destroyer with 20 suicide bombers on the Su24, then what do you send to another ten other ships?
              1. Charik
                Charik April 28 2020 10: 07 New
                0
                Alexander Mosin-you read what people talk about? One on one, who-who? Burke vs Su24
                1. Alexander mosin
                  Alexander mosin April 28 2020 13: 53 New
                  -1
                  But this is nonsense, such a situation will never happen, except that the MO decides in peacetime to send Sushka to bomb the destroyer, which does not suspect anything.
                  1. ultra
                    ultra April 28 2020 15: 35 New
                    0
                    In the case of a serious mess, nuclear warheads will fly in both directions. And neither drying nor burki will be needed.
                  2. Charik
                    Charik April 28 2020 18: 00 New
                    0
                    So Su24 flew to Burke, and some say everything - hypothetically, he is killed
            4. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 April 28 2020 07: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: Charik
              96 cells-3 cells of each launcher are used under the crane to reload units, reducing the total number of cells available for missiles by 6 units — that is, 90 — let's say half the air defense — 40-50pcs SM, I think pieces 30-40PCR will be a problem for Burke

              actually less. AN / SPY-1 can simultaneously direct missiles at 18 targets. Nevertheless, the rate of fire is not unlimited. Although technically Burke can launch missiles at intervals of a second, this applies only to a salvo of 16 missiles. The number of missiles currently at the final section of the trajectory cannot exceed three units (by the number of target illumination radars) - i.e. you will have to wait for a hit (or miss) to release the guidance channels and evaluate the effectiveness of the shooting. It takes some time to prepare the data for launching the next missiles.
              In addition, the decimeter AN / SPY-1 does not really favor ultra-low altitudes.

              If the attack is carried out from a relatively short distance (thereby reducing the flying time of the attacking missiles), at low altitudes, and even from different angles, when active interference is involved, Burke will be very hard.
              Phalanx pieces are accurate, with their own radar, but the small firing range and 20 mm BOSP do not always allow you to cope with your task. There is a known case when a rocket struck by ZAK fire (or rather, its fragments) reached the ship and the superstructure was crushed.
              1. Charik
                Charik April 28 2020 18: 04 New
                0
                Yes, you can kill one X22 either, or I don’t remember those with the armored head P500 or 700, Grigory_45 - well, they immediately whitened him with one Su24
          2. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 03: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: novel xnumx
            given the amount of air defense equipment on board - I doubt very much

            who said that it is effective ?? !!! wink will be happy if a couple of rockets take off at least ?? !!! wassat
            1. Charik
              Charik April 28 2020 10: 10 New
              0
              the same thing can be said about RCC, who said that they are effective? -Will we be glad if both start with 24 or two and the water does not fall?
            2. novel66
              novel66 April 28 2020 10: 32 New
              +2
              Kolyunchik! hi periodically allowed, and, interestingly, get
              1. Nikolai Grek
                Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 46 New
                +2
                Quote: novel xnumx
                Kolyunchik! hi periodically allowed, and, interestingly, get

                If the current is not where it was necessary !!! lol
              2. Charik
                Charik April 28 2020 18: 13 New
                0
                oh well, Nikolai Grek on the Su24 will surely approach the launch distance, that there you can throw it with the Su24 in Burka, and Burke is cardboard or air defense or radar and in general they can be heated in batches wassat
        2. Boratsagdiev
          Boratsagdiev April 27 2020 21: 15 New
          +1
          Not so simple.
          Как показывают их учения даже при вероятности 100%-ой отработке пво корабля "засек-попал-сбил" - нет гарантии, что обломки от "тушки" ракеты не настигнут свою цель.
          Да и "казусы" имеют место быть в жизни.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 27 2020 21: 27 New
            +1
            There was a target drone stuck in the superstructure of Burke
            1. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 22: 00 New
              0
              I saw a photo where the training torpedo in the submarine was stuck
      2. avg
        avg April 27 2020 13: 28 New
        10
        Here, like that of the Crimean woman, the daughter of an officer, everything is not so clear. yes The leading role in such a battle will be played by the organization of interaction.
        Who will find the destroyer and will direct the Su-24 (satellite, ground-based radar, ship, plane. Helicopter), whose electronic warfare will work, weather, skill, and so on. How many planes attack, who supports.
        Известная уязвимость ИДЖИС - радары работают в дециметровом диапазоне, радиоволны хорошо отражаются от поверхности моря, и система "теряется" на сверхмалых высотах. Вот здесь-то и должны сработать "Хибины" и не только. А Х-35У (штатные для Су-24) на конечном участке траектории летят на высоте 3-5 м, стрелять он может с 260 км, ГСН захватывает цель с 50 км. 2х прорвавшихся ракет Куку хватит.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 27 2020 13: 44 New
          +4
          subsonic and phalanxes can be shot down
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 13: 48 New
            +3
            You will first find them to bring down.
            1. novel66
              novel66 April 27 2020 13: 58 New
              +3
              if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..
              1. Protos
                Protos April 27 2020 15: 38 New
                0
                Quote: novel xnumx
                if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..

                At 67 ArlyB 30 combat-ready E-3 Sentry bully
                1. Charik
                  Charik April 27 2020 22: 31 New
                  0
                  et only for amers? and for the allies, and the little ones from Avik Hokai, so estimate that for every Burke enough
            2. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 22: 28 New
              +1
              You start them first, so that you don’t understand where to wait
          2. avg
            avg April 27 2020 13: 51 New
            0
            Aegis leads them too.
            1. novel66
              novel66 April 27 2020 13: 57 New
              +3
              they seem to have their own locator
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent April 27 2020 14: 03 New
                -8
                Quote: novel xnumx
                they seem to have their own locator

                This is the one that also Was EW Suppressed Or Another?

                Собственно,после определённого воздействия РЭБ и аварийного обесточения систем и невозможности восстановления их работоспособности,из работающего ПВО на кукише останется ПЗРК "Стингер"...
                1. novel66
                  novel66 April 27 2020 14: 06 New
                  +4
                  X-35, as far as I know, has no REB
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent April 27 2020 14: 09 New
                    -2
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    X-35, as far as I know, has no REB

                    Why did she need her? Should other systems do this electronic suppression work?
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 April 27 2020 14: 10 New
                      +5
                      from what distance ???
                    2. Insurgent
                      Insurgent April 27 2020 14: 13 New
                      -5
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      from what distance ???

                      Do not know request But you ask the Russian Defense Ministry, they know for surefrom what distance и than был "вырублен" Кукиш 12.04.2014...
                    3. novel66
                      novel66 April 27 2020 14: 14 New
                      +8
                      I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of
                    4. Insurgent
                      Insurgent April 27 2020 14: 18 New
                      -7
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of

                      That's it,suckedwithout having enough information.
                      Ведь только-только МО РФ начала "приоткрывать" подробности,в которых Су-24 стал лишь статистом,появившимся над бездыханной тушкой Кука в финальной сцене...

                      Do not believe your army?
                    5. novel66
                      novel66 April 27 2020 14: 22 New
                      12
                      I believe in the laws of physics
                    6. Insurgent
                      Insurgent April 27 2020 14: 29 New
                      -3
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      I believe in the laws of physics

                      Reasonable position yes

                      And proceeding from it, let's try to understand the background of the question.
                      К примеру,в начале ХХ века,учёные физики,располагая базовыми знаниями по фундаментальной теории распространения радиоволн(незыблемой до сих пор), могли явственно-реалистично представить себе загоризонтную РЛС (например "Дон-2н") ?

                    7. Victor_B
                      Victor_B April 27 2020 19: 38 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Insurgent
                      could clearly imagineагоризонтную РЛС (например "Дон-2н") ?

                      Don is never over the horizon!
                      (Careful! Careful!)
                      appointment
                      Outer space control in Russia and the Commonwealth countries, detection of ballistic missile attacks, their escort and anti-missile guidance.
                    8. Boratsagdiev
                      Boratsagdiev April 27 2020 21: 22 New
                      0
                      Or maybe you don’t need to go so deep into the jungle? ...
                      Maybe everything is easier with electronic warfare? and just ask the Israeli guests how some systems work for them (in the same Syria).
                      They do not stupidly stifle, but clog them with false goals ... and the system does not cope and freezes (or reacts to something wrong and wrong).
                      Смотрю уже многие забыли такое название - "постановщик помех".
                    9. novel66
                      novel66 April 28 2020 10: 35 New
                      +1
                      yes, the missiles painfully smart went, learned to rebuild
                  2. hydrox
                    hydrox April 28 2020 17: 13 New
                    +1
                    At the beginning of the 20th century, A.S.Popov only discovered the attenuation of r / waves during the passage of the ship between the signal source and the receiver, and at that time there was not even at least some theory, and not that fundamental - be afraid of Gd! laughing
              2. Alexander mosin
                Alexander mosin April 28 2020 02: 57 New
                -2
                Quote: Insurgent
                Do not believe your army?

                Do not believe in the ravings about the Khibin on the Su24 and that the Cook radar was suppressed by some mysterious electronic warfare, and other similar fantasies, then you are the 5th convoy, Russophobe and foreign agent, because the officers serve in the army (especially in the press center of the Russian Ministry of Defense), honor and all that, but they will never lie, Generalissimo Shoigu will not let you lie!
  • avg
    avg April 27 2020 14: 06 New
    +1
    Aegis - BIUS controls everything.
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 27 2020 14: 10 New
      +3
      Well, I don’t know, we were taught that they have a regime of their own guidance, they are looking for a target and when they are found they open fire
      1. avg
        avg April 27 2020 14: 27 New
        +1
        Они могут и сами. Если память не изменяет "видят с 15-20 км" но для этого их надо перевести в самостоятельный режим и тогда они мешают Иджис и время реакции увеличивается. Вон в Ираке Миссури проспал две ракеты. Вообще Иджис плохо работает в условиях плотного ордера.
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 15 New
      -1
      Quote: avg
      Aegis - BIUS controls everything

      Phalanxes can work automatically. ZAK provides an autonomous search and detection of targets in the designated shooting sector, assessment of the degree of their threat, selection of the most dangerous target, capture, tracking and determination of its movement parameters, firing, automatic shooting adjustment, ceasefire (after hitting a target or leaving the firing sector ), search and capture a new target.
      1. Charik
        Charik April 28 2020 10: 13 New
        0
        It’s not even a bad zak, but! Some say that the Pkr goes so low that the Phalanx can’t fire at it, I’m just xs.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 28 2020 21: 51 New
          0
          Quote: Charik
          It’s not even a bad zak, but! Some say that the PKR is so low that the Phalanx can’t fire at it

          honestly, I haven’t heard of this. Phalanxes (like all similar ZAK) are used including for firing at surface targets - mines, boats, etc. True, in manual mode with the installation guidance on the TV-sight.

          The Phalanx is not the best, but it is far from an outsider. Good firing accuracy (due to digital drives, algorithms for issuing data for firing and installing a gun and guidance system on a single platform), but a relatively low rate of fire and a small affected area - if the missile is not shot down in the first bursts, it has a chance to cause damage to the ship. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why these systems are gradually removed from the ships - the last Burks go without the Phalanx, the Israelis change their system on their ships (for SAM), develop larger-caliber and quick-fire systems (such as the Goalkeeper)
          In addition, there were cases of unauthorized machine gun firing - during the Persian Gulf war, trying to bring down the Iranian anti-ship missiles, the phalanx of the frigate Jerrett did not notice the obstacles in the form of a Missouri battleship and stitched his bridge in line. The robot of the Japanese destroyer Yugiri during an exercise in 1996 shot down an American attack aircraft A-6 Intruder instead of a target towed by him (maybe that's why it is sometimes turned off?)
        2. Charik
          Charik April 29 2020 01: 45 New
          -1
          Well, then yes, the Phalanx is not a panacea against PCR, if it is one for the whole vessel, if it were like Avik - 6 pieces for the whole ship - that's why they came up with 4 Seasparow in one cell
      2. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 April 28 2020 21: 52 New
        0
        some courageous Samaritans set you up with cons ... I don’t understand why
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 03: 45 New
    +3
    Quote: novel xnumx
    subsonic and phalanxes can be shot down

    Ром, а ты слыхал, как они "сбили", если мне не изменяет память, две иракские ПКР?!!! wink lol
    1. Alexander mosin
      Alexander mosin April 28 2020 03: 56 New
      -3
      Quote: Nikolai the Greek
      а ты слыхал, как они "сбили", если мне не изменяет память, две иракские ПКР

      Iraq in the allies was then with the United States and was hammering by accident. The Americans did not take part in the database on the side of Iraq, but everyone shared information. And the level of IJIS in the early 80s is a bit different today.
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 04: 11 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Mosin
        USA then had allies in Iraq

        what that is, then such a hit of the type is not considered ??? !!! lol
        Quote: Alexander Mosin
        and stomped by accident.

        what that is, then you can not shoot down such missiles flying towards you ?? !!! laughing
        Quote: Alexander Mosin
        The Americans did not take part in the database on the side of Iraq, but everyone shared information

        however, they got on board !!! wink lol
        Quote: Alexander Mosin
        And the level of IJIS in the early 80s is a bit different today.

        Yes Yes!! wassat lol
        PS ... tie a polish one place to amers !!! request tongue
        1. Alexander mosin
          Alexander mosin April 28 2020 14: 19 New
          -1
          Quote: Nikolai the Greek
          that is, then such a hit of the type is not considered ??? !!!


          No, it doesn’t count, because the Allies are not expected to rocket sideways, and the US Navy did not participate in the database. It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

          Quote: Nikolai the Greek
          PS ... tie a polish one place to amers !!!


          Вы свои предпочтения и практики мне не приписывайте, по себе не судите. Меня интересует техническая сторона вопроса и реальность, а не шизофренический бред и мнение троллей маршалов местных, чья функция на этом сайте минусить всех, кто не придерживается "патриотических" фантазий. Если вы считаете, что ИДЖИС американских эсминцев за последние почти 40 лет не изменился и его боевые возможности не выросли, то Ваше дело и уровень информированности.
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Mosin
            No, it doesn’t count, because the Allies are not expected to rocket sideways, and the US Navy did not participate in the database. It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

            it's all demagoguery ... the fact is that the missiles were detected and could not be shot down !! wassat
            Quote: Alexander Mosin
            I'm interested in the technical side of the issue and reality

            then we would ask how the Americans screwed up then !! wink laughing
            1. Alexander mosin
              Alexander mosin April 28 2020 18: 54 New
              0
              Quote: Nikolai the Greek
              it's all demagoguery ... the fact is that the missiles were detected and could not be shot down !!

              Quote: Nikolai the Greek
              then we would ask how the Americans screwed up then


              Демагогия и бред, это сравнивать боевой корабль 70х, если не дрвнее, который никакой не ИДЖИС, который не участвовал в БД и не ожидал атаки со стороны союзника, с современными эсминцами Арли Берк и верить, что такое можно с ним повторить. Если Вы это называете "облажаться", то как тогда оценивать походы Кузи к Сирии в 2019м?!
      2. Charik
        Charik April 28 2020 10: 19 New
        +1
        Looking at the minuses they stuck to Alexandra, you tell them how it really was, as they say-even pour into the eyes
        1. Alexander mosin
          Alexander mosin April 28 2020 14: 00 New
          -1
          А "патриотов" никогда реальность не интересовала, лозунги, бредовые сказки и шизофрения их всё. И так как они в стране рулят и результат соответственный за 20 лет, одни фейки и провалы.
        2. Nikolai Grek
          Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Charik
          you tell them how it really was

          and how was it really ??? what did you serve there ?? !! lol
          1. Charik
            Charik April 28 2020 18: 19 New
            -1
            no, the whole world has known about this for a long time, it’s not a secret even once, starting from 10 miles until bang bang aboard and all things, take Nicholas and read at least in pikvedi
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: Nikolai the Greek
      а ты слыхал, как они "сбили", если мне не изменяет память, две иракские ПКР?!!!

      they didn’t even try, it was too late to launch missiles, and for the Phalanxes, the missiles were in the dead zone. Coincidence.
      And frigates like Oliver Perry (which Stark belonged to) don't have Aegis.
      1. Charik
        Charik April 28 2020 10: 37 New
        0
        Grigory_45-well, what do you compare, Burka with Perry, look at pikvediya everything is written about that incident (do not compare sausage with a finger)
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 28 2020 11: 22 New
          +1
          Quote: Charik
          Well, what do you compare, Burke with Perry, look in piquediya everything is written about that incident

          Yes, I am familiar with the story of how Stark caught two Exocet. We have lovers here to distort (Nikolai Grek)
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 42 New
            -1
            Quote: Gregory_45
            We have lovers here to distort (Nikolai Grek)

            what that is, the missiles were shot down, but I distort everything ?? !!! recourse laughing
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 April 28 2020 17: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: Nikolai the Greek
              that is, the missiles were shot down, but am I distorting everything ?? !!

              the most convincing lie is one in which there is part of the truth.
              No, the missiles were not shot down, they were not even tried to be shot down. That day, Stark was very unlucky, there was a series of accidents that led to the tragedy. But you carefully do not notice them, making a thoughtful conclusion that it was supposed to be so. And what will happen to any American ship, because they are pelvis painted in ball color, and the team on them is utter gouging. Your conclusions are a lie.

              You have already been given an example with a tank and a grenade.
              Quote: Alexander Mosin
              It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

              This is exactly what you judge. You are not interested in reality, nor is objective assessment.
      2. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 40 New
        -1
        Quote: Gregory_45
        Coincidence.

        you can always find some excuse !!! wink laughing
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 28 2020 17: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Nikolai the Greek
          you can always find some excuse !!

          not an excuse, but an explanation.
          By the way, how and with what will you justify (from your own slang) the incident with MRC Monsoon in 1987?
    3. Charik
      Charik April 28 2020 10: 17 New
      0
      Again, find these Iraqi PCRs, Nikolai’s backstory in the same pikvedia, Iraq was an ally of the United States at that time, so the ship did not consider the approaching Mirage to be a threat
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 16: 59 New
        -1
        Quote: Charik
        therefore, the ship did not consider the approaching Mirage to be a threat

        flying missiles are also not considered a threat ?? !!! wassat lol
        1. Charik
          Charik April 28 2020 17: 12 New
          0
          the launch was, as Pikivedia writes, with 10 miles (is it 15 km?) and it says that someone screamed, I see a rocket, but it was too late to rush about
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 21: 08 New
            -1
            Quote: Charik
            the launch was, as Pikivedia writes, with 10 miles (is it 15 km?) and it says that someone screamed, I see a rocket, but it was too late to rush about

            вот вам и "профессионализм" амерских вояк!! wink and over time it became much worse !!! wassat laughing
            1. Charik
              Charik April 29 2020 01: 49 New
              -1
              Nikolay Grek - yes it’s good to cast a shadow over the fence, in principle, yes, self-hypnosis is a powerful thing, you can even defeat any disease
    4. novel66
      novel66 April 28 2020 10: 39 New
      +3
      so, they weren’t even included - read about that incident, they didn’t just overslept, but loved everything that could be!
      1. Charik
        Charik April 28 2020 12: 43 New
        0
        there, even a sailor shouted that he saw a rocket, and since he saw it, it all arrived, especially since a launch from 10 miles
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 28 2020 12: 48 New
          +3
          it was necessary not to yell, but to bring down the rocket from the machine gun
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 17: 01 New
            +1
            Quote: novel xnumx
            it was necessary not to yell, but to bring down the rocket from the machine gun

            well, like this!! wassat where is the guarantee that they also will not scam any other attack ?? !!! laughing
          2. Charik
            Charik April 28 2020 17: 13 New
            0
            yeah jump and saddle like the munhausen core
  • st2st
    st2st April 27 2020 16: 09 New
    -2
    Загоризонтная РЛС " Волна " , с успехом может , как отслеживать , предупреждать , так , и глушить ИДЖИС . По диапазону в которых может работать " Волна " , ИДЖИС проигрывает . Тем более , дальность работы нашей станции , несоизмеримо дальше
  • Alexander mosin
    Alexander mosin April 28 2020 02: 45 New
    -2
    Quote: avg
    Вот здесь-то и должны сработать "Хибины" и не только.

    Вы думаете можно подойти на такое расстояние к эсминцу типа Арли Берк, который в случае серьэзной заварухи один плавать у берегов России не будет, а будет АУГ, с дальностью обнаружения в минимум 1000км радиус?)) ГСН Х35У захватывает цель от 20и км, что для Арли Берка не проблема, или отклонят РЭБом, или собьют тупо с помощью ПРО дозвуковую болванку. И никаких Хибинов на Су-24 отродясь никогда не было, эта система была разработана для более поздних ЛА, для Су-27, в итоге для Су-34 и Су-35 и ситему эту пилят уже 30 лет, пока допилили, она устарела, а модернизация провалилась и был суд даже в 2014м. И даже если, представим себе такую ситуацию, Сушка несётся на эсминец, включает Хибины и с этим дивайзом что, заглушает гигантскую как по размерам, так и мощностью РЛС?? А ничего, что Хибины ничего вообще не глушат? Их не для этого создавали и не против столь мощных радаров как радары ИДЖИСА, а скорее РЛС типа Тора и не чтоб глушить, а чтоб чуток "замутнить зрение" РЛС, исказить расстояние и тд. Подобные системы есть на всех современных ЛА.
  • Tusv
    Tusv April 27 2020 14: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

    Ну если верить Владимиру Семеновичу, то "Молчит наука, хотели кока, а съели Кука".
    А так, видюха вполне голливудская. Откуда не возьмись, на малой высоте вылетает Су-24, за ним гонятся Соколики Ф-16. И Шедевр. Зависает над эсминцем противолодочная вертушка в гордом одиночестве. Нет, это не фильма. Это троллинг сотого уровня. Или военно морской юмор. Не ну. А кому пробу на вкус брать? Не готов еще Кук. Без соли жрать не возможно. Да и "Хрена не хватает" к этой заливной рыбе
  • venik
    venik April 27 2020 14: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: novel xnumx
    the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

    =======
    It depends on what to arm!
  • Range
    Range April 27 2020 22: 08 New
    -1
    I don’t know how many Su-24 it takes to hurt Cook, but I think one Zircon will be enough.
  • Nikolai Grek
    Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 03: 29 New
    +3
    Quote: novel xnumx
    the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

    all the hell !! wassat
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 28 2020 10: 41 New
      +3
      Yes, he can’t even repeat Gastello!
  • Looking for
    Looking for April 27 2020 15: 22 New
    0
    But do not oppose. Because there is nothing.
  • mole
    mole April 27 2020 14: 02 New
    +6
    Quote: novel xnumx
    routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

    Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 27 2020 14: 07 New
      12
      they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side
      1. mole
        mole April 27 2020 14: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side

        If only they didn’t burst from this tension. wink
        1. Fmax
          Fmax April 28 2020 02: 47 New
          +2
          Like the previous 2 times? %)
        2. datura23
          datura23 April 28 2020 15: 08 New
          +1
          so sections of Poland and occur
      2. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 28 2020 04: 02 New
        -6
        Quote: novel xnumx
        they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side

        This is when the Poles rushed in some directions?
        1. Sergey Medvedev
          Sergey Medvedev April 28 2020 08: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          This is when the Poles rushed in some directions?

          1938 - for Hitler. 1939 - against Hitler.
          1. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 28 2020 14: 25 New
            -4
            Quote: Sergei Medvedev
            1938 - for Hitler. 1939 - against Hitler.


            Раз поляки были "за" Гитлера, то кто был тогда Сталин, под Гитлером? При чём обеими руками за до 41го.
            1. Sergey Medvedev
              Sergey Medvedev April 28 2020 19: 28 New
              +1
              We talked about the Poles.
              А Сталин в 1938 просил поляков пропустить РККА на помошь союзной Чехословакии. Но поляки были были ещё за Гитлера (вместе с Гитлером рвали на куски Чехословакию) и не пропустили. А потом, в 1939 году, Сталин предлагал полякам военную помощь против Гитлера, но те сказали, что им не надо. И французам с англичанами предлагал союз против Гитлера (в августе 1939 года), но те тоже сказали, что им не надо. Тогда Сталин сказал: "А мне что? Больше всех надо?" И заключил с Гитлером договор о ненападении. Последним в Европе заключил, после поляков, французов и прочих добрых соседей Гитлера. Самое интересное, что Вы всё это знаете, но делаете вид, что не знаете. Потому что тролль. Просто тролль.
    2. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl April 27 2020 14: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: Mole
      Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?
      in the free press ....
    3. avg
      avg April 27 2020 14: 36 New
      +5
      У поляков много гонора и мания величия. Отсюда свойство - попадать в мясорубку между Великими державами , а потом долго плакать "Ще польска не сгинела..." Поляки, планида у них такая. yes
    4. Tusv
      Tusv April 27 2020 15: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Mole
      Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

      Не ну и так понятно, что Кук это для авиации ВМФ объект насмешек. Поляки выложили в сеть видео, где показано насколько его опустили. Су -24 увел истребители прикрытия и Ка-31 вполне себе может пустить буй с заявками радиослушателей, чтоб "подворотничок не пачкался и башка не болталась". Но это уже другая серия Военно - морского юмора по троллингу Дональда Кука
      1. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 28 2020 04: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: Tusv
        Not well, it’s clear that Cook is an object of ridicule for the Navy aviation.

        Rather, there will be ridicule about this circus with the Khibiny and senseless, but primarily dangerous for the Su24 crew maneuvers. And in the aviation of the Russian Navy for a long time it is no laughing matter when they observe the development of the NATO Air Force and the degradation of the fleet in the Russian Federation, but they have to participate in such shows.
        1. datura23
          datura23 April 28 2020 15: 10 New
          0
          the safest thing, in your opinion, is the demobilization of aviation and the army and navy
          1. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 28 2020 16: 32 New
            +1
            What does demobilization have to do with it ??
    5. Barmal
      Barmal April 27 2020 20: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Mole
      Quote: novel xnumx
      routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

      Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

      the Poles are in great hope that for them the Americans will squeeze the Black Sea from the Russians.
      1. mole
        mole April 27 2020 20: 54 New
        +1
        Something a lot of comers good
      2. Charik
        Charik April 27 2020 22: 36 New
        -1
        actually it was in the Baltic
        1. Barmal
          Barmal April 27 2020 22: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Charik
          actually it was in the Baltic

          Polska od morza do morza
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 23: 07 New
            +1
            Quote: Barmal
            Quote: Charik
            actually it was in the Baltic

            Polska od morza do morza

            From walrus to walrus? Have they laid eyes on the Arctic? laughing
            1. Barmal
              Barmal April 28 2020 21: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              Quote: Barmal
              Quote: Charik
              actually it was in the Baltic

              Polska od morza do morza

              From walrus to walrus? Have they laid eyes on the Arctic? laughing

              полеки они такие, им палец в рот не суй - откусят. А так всё просто - от моря до моря. И они в целом очень "позитивны" в случае выхода к Черному морю, Балтику им Иосиф Виссарионыч подарил. А они такие неблагодарные, твари одним словом.
  • Fmax
    Fmax April 28 2020 02: 46 New
    0
    The Poles simply revised Kiselev, so they are trying to build caps from themselves.
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ April 27 2020 10: 37 New
    +8
    Yes, if we consider the confrontation in its purest form, it is unlikely that the Su-24 will be able to approach the destroyer at the launch distance of the PKR, the old plane, a very large epr (from different angles of 10-25 sq.m.), ship's air defense sees it from very far away
    1. Winnie76
      Winnie76 April 27 2020 10: 41 New
      11
      Quote: _Ugene_
      ship's air defense sees him from far away

      Under the radio horizon?
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar April 27 2020 10: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: Winnie76
        Under the radio horizon?

        After the horizon and drying the destroyer will not see after all.
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 April 27 2020 10: 48 New
          -3
          You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar April 27 2020 10: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Winnie76
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon

            ...выпустить две ракеты типа "Х-35", которые эсминец без особых проблем собьет. При условии, конечно, что экипаж не совсем уж расслабился.
            1. Avior
              Avior April 27 2020 12: 01 New
              +5
              Even if it relaxes, the RTR-REB station traps all the same, it will shoot, when threatened, it works automatically.
              The chances of circumventing the traps and the operation of the ship’s eb at a pair of PCRs launched from one direction are practically zero.
              Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 27 2020 12: 27 New
                0
                Quote: Avior
                Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.

                Reminds an ancient joke:
                А я сегодня на своем "Москвиче" мужика на "Феррари" обогнал как стоячего! Тот так ошалел, что чуть заправочный шланг не выронил!
              2. Yura
                Yura April 27 2020 12: 44 New
                +6
                Quote: Avior
                Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.

                On the contrary, we understand that if the SU-24 received an order to destroy the target, then an order to neutralize, possibly destroy the satellites, enemy AWACS was already given, well, a lot of the rest was done, because this is a war with everyone resulting consequences. And the Poles will not be up to publications, that's for sure.
                1. Alexander mosin
                  Alexander mosin April 28 2020 04: 18 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Jura
                  we understand that if the SU-24 received an order to destroy the target, then the order to neutralize, possibly destroy the satellites, AWACs of the enemy was already given,

                  Well, yes, since the order was given, it means that they will beat AWACS! The truth is not clear what and how, but orders are not discussed! And after the order to beat all the AWACS, an order will be received to sink all the AUGs and to beat all the satellites ..
              3. ancient
                ancient April 27 2020 13: 07 New
                +5
                Quote: Avior
                Even if it relaxes, the RTR-REB station traps all the same, it will shoot, when threatened, it works automatically.

                При "сложном" профиле полёта ПКР (Х-31АД) ещё никому её не удавалось перехватить wink
                Quote: Avior
                Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship

                А если ещё и известны координаты этого корабля или он .."стоит на банке"...то это уже называется...."как на полигоне ( или в тире)" вероятность попадания в цель практически 99%.
                1. Alexander mosin
                  Alexander mosin April 28 2020 04: 25 New
                  -4
                  Quote: ancient
                  При "сложном" профиле полёта ПКР (Х-31АД) ещё никому её не удавалось перехватить

                  And who tried to shoot her down? What is unbreakable in her? And how will the Su24 fit the missile launch range of the destroyer?
                2. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 28 New
                  -1
                  Quote: ancient
                  RCC (X-31AD) still no one has managed to intercept

                  sure? Do you think the United States bought MA-31 targets just so that they were?
                  The MA-31 target missile is designed to simulate supersonic missiles during testing of anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems and to develop skills to repel a supersonic missile attack by combat calculations of air defense systems. It can fly along a low-altitude trajectory to simulate supersonic anti-ship missiles, and along a high-altitude trajectory to simulate anti-radar missiles.
                  1. Charik
                    Charik April 28 2020 10: 44 New
                    +1
                    And that’s why they upgraded SM
            2. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 12: 54 New
              +2
              Su24 and X35 good maybe right calibers pcr and dagger
              1. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 14: 13 New
                -1
                Quote: Charik
                Su24 and X35 good maybe right calibers pcr and dagger

                X-35 can be based on the Su-24, as well as on the Su-34.
                Х-35 предназначена для уничтожения кораблей водоизмещением до 5000 тонн и замены ракете П-15 "Термит".


                Base Options:

                aviation - for aircraft Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29, Su-35S, TU-142 and helicopters Ka-27, Ka-28, Ka-52K
                ракетный комплекс "Уран" (SS-N-25 Switchblade) - корабельный
                ракетный комплекс 3К60 "Бал" (SSC-6 Sennight) - береговой.

                https://vpk.name/library/f/x-35.html
            3. ancient
              ancient April 27 2020 12: 57 New
              +6
              Quote: Kalmar
              ..выпустить две ракеты типа "Х-35"

              Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's? belay
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 27 2020 13: 14 New
                -1
                Quote: ancient
                Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's?

                In general, I exaggerated it. Well, there was a note https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili, where it seemed like they mentioned that the X-35s were planning to spend on the Su-24 . In theory, nothing prevents it from being done. Which, however, does not affect the general alignment of forces in any way)
                1. ancient
                  ancient April 27 2020 15: 38 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  In general, I exaggerated it.

                  Clear drinks ...тогда носитель в.."кавычки". wink
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili,

                  Известия...они такие...."могуть...усё" wassat
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  that the X-35s are planning to spend the Su-24.

                  Слишком много " изменений" надо вносить в СУО. (поэтому и с Х-31-ми остановились).
                2. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 32 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  where it’s kind of mentioned that the X-35s are planning to loot to the Su-24. In theory, nothing prevents it

                  fundamentally - nothing interferes, in fact - the means. There are and will not be any other missiles on the Su-24, except for those that are carrying now. To integrate a missile into the aircraft’s weapons system is not to hang it on ACU locks ... avionics need to be further developed
              2. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 14: 34 New
                0
                Quote: ancient
                Quote: Kalmar
                ..выпустить две ракеты типа "Х-35"

                Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's? belay

                And you do not know?
                На базе Х-35 кроме корабельного комплекса "Уран" созданы - береговой противокорабельный комплекс "Бал", а также авиационный вариант (две модификации: для самолетов Х-35У и вертолетов Х-35В). Вертолетный вариант ракеты может применяться с вертолетов типа Ка-27 и Ка-28,самолетный - с истребителей МиГ-29К, МиГ-29СМТ, Су-30МК, Су-35, Як-141, фронтового бомбардировщика типа Су-24М, противолодочного самолета Ту-142М и других носителей.

                http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/uran/uran.shtml
                1. ancient
                  ancient April 27 2020 16: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                  And you do not know?

                  belay request what
                  "Мурзилка" ( на счёт Су-24М).
                2. NN52
                  NN52 April 27 2020 22: 42 New
                  +1
                  Sky Strike fighter (Maxim)
                  Древний и никогда в "курсе" не был...
                3. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                  На базе Х-35 кроме корабельного комплекса "Уран" созданы - береговой противокорабельный комплекс "Бал", а также авиационный вариант (две модификации: для самолетов Х-35У и вертолетов Х-35В). Вертолетный вариант ракеты может применяться с вертолетов типа Ка-27 и Ка-28,самолетный - с истребителей МиГ-29К, МиГ-29СМТ, Су-30МК, Су-35, Як-141, фронтового бомбардировщика типа Су-24М, противолодочного самолета Ту-142М и других носителей.

                  about ..))) Yak-141 is mentioned))) This is what hairy year information? Apparently, from the area of ​​Wishlist. Are you aware that not all Wishlist are being implemented?

                  Can I see at least one Su-24 photo with X-35 missiles?
              3. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 15: 16 New
                -1
                Quote: ancient
                Quote: Kalmar
                ..выпустить две ракеты типа "Х-35"

                Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's? belay

                Here is another confirmation.
                The Kh-35U missile has a mass of 550 kg. Of these, 145 kg falls on the warhead. Flight speed - 300 m / s. Range of application - 260 km. Currently, the Kh-35U carriers are several series of surface ships of the missile boat / corvette class, Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 and anti-submarine Tu-142 aircraft, as well as Ka helicopters -27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K. The missile is used as part of the Bal coastal missile system.

                https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili
                1. Charik
                  Charik April 27 2020 22: 42 New
                  +1
                  Confirmation when the video will be, well, or the shooter himself will say then I believe it, but in the newspaper they will order it and print it like any gossmi.
                  1. Sky strike fighter
                    Sky strike fighter April 28 2020 11: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Charik
                    Confirmation when the video will be, well, or the shooter himself will say then I believe it, but in the newspaper they will order it and print it like any gossmi.

                    Testing the impact on surface targets in the Baltic Fleet Su-24 and Su-30SM. Video.
                    https://news.rambler.ru/army/44094093-otrabotka-udarov-aviatsiey-po-nadvodnym-tselyam-popala-na-video/
            4. Nikolai Grek
              Nikolai Grek April 28 2020 04: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Kalmar
              ... which the destroyer will bring down without any problems.

              I wonder why you decided this ?? !! what and even with a non-relaxed crew !!! lol wassat
          2. zyablik.olga
            zyablik.olga April 27 2020 11: 45 New
            12
            Quote: Winnie76
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon

            At least before writing this, you would be interested in the capabilities of the radar installed on the Su-24.
            1. Winnie76
              Winnie76 April 27 2020 14: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              At least before writing this, you would be interested in the capabilities of the radar installed on the Su-24.

              I took an interest. I didn’t find anything.
          3. Avior
            Avior April 27 2020 11: 49 New
            +7
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400

            can. but...
            Основу вооружения самолета составляла прицельно-навигационная система ПНС-24 "Пума-А". В ее состав входили: радиолокатор переднего обзора (РПО) "Орион-А" с дальностью обнаружения типового объекта 150 км.
            1. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 12: 55 New
              +3
              Turned on the radar and everything is already on sight
            2. Winnie76
              Winnie76 April 27 2020 14: 08 New
              -2
              Quote: Avior
              РПО) "Орион-А" с дальностью обнаружения типового объекта 150 км.

              And what is a typical object? This time. And two, as far as I know, PNS-24 is an outdated system of several subsystems that have modernized
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 April 28 2020 08: 48 New
                -1
                Quote: Winnie76
                And two, as far as I know PNS-24 is an outdated system of several subsystems that have upgraded

                Yeah. An advanced sighting and navigation system PNS-24M Tiger was installed on the Su-24M, but the problem was that the search radar remained the same, Orion-A, with an instrumental range of about 150 km
                1. Fan-fan
                  Fan-fan April 29 2020 00: 29 New
                  -2
                  Вот описание реальных военных событий, я обнаружил в Интернете схему удачной атаки аргентинских ВВС на английский эсминц 'Шеффилд':
                  В 10:35 аргентинский самолёт-разведчик типа «Нептун» поднялся на высоту 1170 метров и определил координаты соответствующей цели. Несколькими минутами спустя он сообщил полученные данные пилотам двух самолётов 'СуперЭтандар'.
                  Moving at a very low altitude, in the region of 10:50 hours, they rose to a level of 160 m to check the coordinates indicated by Neptune and did not find anything. The pilots turned around and decided to continue the search. After 45 km, they climbed again and after a few seconds of scanning, the desired target appeared on the screens of their radars. The process of hitting a ship with an AM.39 rocket (Exoset) consists of two stages: first, the rocket is controlled by a special aircraft system that sets the coordinates of the target and transfers them to the rocket, i.e. loading coordinates into the on-board weapon systems, then the second stage - the radar itself rockets.
                  I note that luck is largely due to the fact that the radar was turned off on the destroyer just at that time, since it created interference with radio communications with London. One missile hit the target, the second missed.
          4. Brylevsky
            Brylevsky April 27 2020 12: 00 New
            +5
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything,

            И "засветиться" самому?
          5. Ingenegr
            Ingenegr April 27 2020 12: 02 New
            +5
            "Горок" за 300-400 км Су-24 может хоть обделаться до полной выработки топлива. Только вот инструментальная дальность БРЛС менее 200 км. С этим что делать?
            1. ancient
              ancient April 27 2020 13: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Ingenegr
              "Горок" за 300-400 км Су-24 может хоть обделаться до полной выработки топлива.

              Yah? belay ..а на эсминце в это время "спят мёртвым сном" и "Иджис" ( вообще ослепла). wink
              А да...ну и если до полной выработки топлива...так это тогда ...камикадзе.....горку делать надо перед целью...а можно и так...на высоте 20-30 метров .."въехать"
          6. Charik
            Charik April 27 2020 12: 51 New
            +4
            What to see from Su24 for 300 km?
          7. ancient
            ancient April 27 2020 12: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Winnie76
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything
            " чем" на Су-24 вы собираетесь....."рассмотреть...море окиян и...узреть там свою цель"? ( про идентификацию цели пока умалчиваем")?
          8. ancient
            ancient April 27 2020 13: 12 New
            +3
            Quote: Winnie76
            You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything

            А на какую высоту вы собираетесь сделать .."горку"( ведь надо и цель увидеть) или вы считаете , что у корабельных рлс есть зависимость обнаружения цели из за горизонта, а вот у самолётных рлс получается нет таких ограничений по дальности обнаружения цели? wink
            1. Serg4545
              Serg4545 April 27 2020 19: 26 New
              -3
              //А на какую высоту вы собираетесь сделать .."горку"( ведь надо и цель увидеть) или вы считаете , что у корабельных рлс есть зависимость обнаружения цели из за горизонта, а вот у самолётных рлс получается нет таких ограничений по дальности обнаружения цели? //

              Well for starters.
              If the aircraft comes with anti-ship missiles, then preliminary data on the ship’s whereabouts have already been received. Or do you think that Drying will carry RCC on itself just like that?
              When Sushka arrives in the right area, she makes a slide:
              For example, from an initial height of 200 meters, she bounces at 1500 meters. Turns on the radar for a couple of seconds at this altitude. Then he dives again to a height of 200 meters.
              Perhaps Aegis will be the first to spot Sushka (even most likely). But this will not give him anything. For any complex has a reaction time. And while Drying will be above the radio horizon (10-15 seconds) Aegis will not even have time to launch a rocket. Drying dived under the horizon and again became invisible to Aegis.
              It is enough for drying periodically (say every 70 km) to make a slide, combing the area in search of a ship. Aegis may even notice a plane every time, but she will not be able to do anything. But Sushka will sooner or later find the ship. She can even after finding the ship, make another slide to more accurately identify the target. Then again go under the horizon, upload the flight mission to the RCC. Launch RCC. You can fly home.
              And in general, in the confrontation of any single ship and more or less modern aircraft with anti-ship missiles, the aircraft has a huge handicap! Aircraft with a certain tactic, is almost invulnerable. But RCC (even single) always has a chance to reach the goal.
              1. ancient
                ancient April 27 2020 19: 42 New
                +3
                Quote: Serg4545
                Well for starters.
                If the aircraft comes with anti-ship missiles, then preliminary data on the ship’s whereabouts have already been received. Or do you think that Drying will carry RCC on itself just like that?

                Естественно была и разведка цели и доразведка,но........"пароход" то не .."привязан на месте"...или как?
                Quote: Serg4545
                For example, from an initial height of 200 meters, she bounces at 1500 meters. Turns on the radar for a couple of seconds at this altitude. Then he dives again to a height of 200 meters.

                Ну начнём как говорите.."с начала"..во первых РПО включается с земли и антенна ставится на "Эквивалент"...это для ракеты с АГСН, а для Т-ных нужна только ЛТПС и включённый контейнер АПК-9. wink
                Что бы "обозрить" пространство и обнаружить цель.."где-то в районе".....это мероприятие никак не выполнить за несколько секунд. soldier
                Quote: Serg4545
                It is enough for drying periodically (say every 70 km) to make a slide, combing the area in search of a ship.

                Про такие "понятия" как дальность, продолжительность и тактический радиус действия в зависимости от веса Б\к и заправки а так же режима и профиля полёта...слышали?
                Всё остальное ваше " написанное" оставляю без комментариев
                1. Serg4545
                  Serg4545 April 27 2020 20: 30 New
                  0
                  //Естественно была и разведка цели и доразведка,но........"пароход" то не .."привязан на месте"...или как?//

                  If the steamer were tied, then according to it, for a stationary purpose, they would work out some sort of long-range Caliber. But since he was not attached, I had to drive Dry, for additional exploration and launching missiles from close range.

                  //Что бы "обозрить" пространство и обнаружить цель.."где-то в районе".....это мероприятие никак не выполнить за несколько секунд//

                  View as much surface as the allotted time allows.
                  Repeat the operation until a result is obtained.

                  //Про такие "понятия" как дальность, продолжительность и тактический радиус действия в зависимости от веса Б\к и заправки а так же режима и профиля полёта...слышали?//

                  Yes, I heard.
                  And I think that the purchase of almost complete invulnerability due to a couple of additional hanging tanks is a drop dead bargain.

                  //Всё остальное ваше " написанное" оставляю без комментариев//

                  That is, agree?
                  1. ancient
                    ancient April 28 2020 11: 16 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Serg4545
                    and launching missiles from close range.

                    Which RCC specifically?
                    Quote: Serg4545
                    View as much surface as the allotted time allows.
                    Repeat the operation until a result is obtained.

                    Вас понял,т.е. никогда в жизни не работали с РЛС и не "находили" и не выделяли индентифицированную цель в условиях противодействия РЭС противника...да даже и без оного( предположим,что на "пароходе" все спят wink
                    Quote: Serg4545
                    Yes, I heard.
                    And I think that the purchase of almost complete invulnerability due to a couple of additional hanging tanks is a drop dead bargain.

                    And where are you going to hang RCCs ..... on the 1st and 6th rotary suspension units? There you can only X-25ML, and PTB at 2 and 5 nodes, well, or as an option 1-X-29L and two PTB.
                    И с ПТБ тактический радиус конечно увеличивается, но не так...что бы.."ах" fellow
                    And the destroyer in the threatened period will never come to the coast of the enemy at such a range.
                    Так что "офигительность" вашей предложенной сделки...."пролетает мимо как.....фанера" wink
                    Quote: Serg4545
                    That is, agree?

                    Скорее всего нет...особенно попредложенным вами критериям- "любой корабль - более менее современный самолёт"! soldier
      2. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ April 27 2020 10: 48 New
        +4
        if it goes all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m above the sea, then without the support of Avax, it may reach the missile launch range, but how will he capture the target under the radio horizon? ship radar is much more powerful and modern, there is no equal confrontation
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 April 27 2020 11: 02 New
          -5
          Quote: _Ugene_
          there is no equal confrontation

          Drying has its trump cards. As we have already found out, it can hide from the radar at the very small point, can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle, and can avoid a collision. Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it. Rather on them
          1. Bongo
            Bongo April 27 2020 11: 30 New
            14
            Quote: Winnie76
            Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it.

            It’s even impossible to comment wassat Отчего же Су-24М не оснастили "Москитами", вы не думали об этом?
            1. Winnie76
              Winnie76 April 27 2020 12: 20 New
              -5
              Quote: Bongo
              Такое даже комментировать невозможно Отчего же Су-24М не оснастили "Москитами", вы не думали об этом?

              Apparently the problem is in mass and size. And nevertheless. As far as I know, there is an aircraft Bramos, which hangs on the Su-30. Why can not castrated Onyx hang on the Su-24
            2. novel66
              novel66 April 27 2020 12: 31 New
              +4
              I’m embarrassed to ask, but will the caliber for Drying rise? Sergey, the kindest
              1. Bongo
                Bongo April 27 2020 13: 46 New
                +5
                Quote: novel xnumx
                Sergey, the kindest

                Roman, good evening! (I have already evening). I’m watching a warm company gather today! drinks
                Quote: novel xnumx
                and the caliber on the drying stand?

                Of course not. No.
                Some time ago, a Su-24 was published at the VO, the consultant of which was the ancient one present here (Sergey). All questions can be asked him directly.

                Service and combat use of the Su-24

                https://topwar.ru/84850-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-frontovogo-bombardirovschika-su-24-chast-1-ya.html

                https://topwar.ru/84921-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-frontovogo-bombardirovschika-su-24-chast-2-ya.html
            3. ancient
              ancient April 27 2020 13: 19 New
              +3
              Quote: Bongo
              It’s even impossible to comment

              good
              Quote: Bongo
              Отчего же Су-24М не оснастили "Москитами"

              Even with the X-31 did not finish ... unfortunately
              1. Bongo
                Bongo April 27 2020 13: 41 New
                +4
                Sergey, hello! drinks Давненько с тобой не пересекался! Оля говорила, что ты снова с нами, но у меня всё времени не было на ВО толком заглянуть. Про Су-24 лучше тебя на ВО никто не знает. Хотя даже ты "урялкам" ничего объяснить не сможешь. request
                1. ancient
                  ancient April 27 2020 13: 53 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Bongo
                  It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

                  Hello hello DEAR !!! drinks
                  Так ты же всё по..."охотам и рыбалкам"...тем более у Вас там легче...."самоизолироваться"...а медведь или тигр...не проверяет наличие масок wink
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo April 27 2020 14: 18 New
                    +5
                    Quote: ancient
                    Quote: Bongo
                    It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

                    Hello hello DEAR !!! drinks
                    Так ты же всё по..."охотам и рыбалкам"...тем более у Вас там легче...."самоизолироваться"...а медведь или тигр...не проверяет наличие масок wink

                    For the tiger, we have the northern boundary of the range, and it is very rare. But there were too many bears and now it’s better not to meet them. After a harsh punishment was introduced in the PRC for smuggling bear bile and bear’s paws, they almost deliberately stopped beating. And in food without checking, bear meat is fraught with mention, trichinosis is an extremely unpleasant thing. However, we are not bored in the Far East ... wassat

                    I took this picture in the morning on the way to duty a couple of days ago.
                    1. ancient
                      ancient April 27 2020 14: 33 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Bongo
                      I took this picture in the morning on the way to duty a couple of days ago.

                      Yes, my wife and I watch TV and ... just goof off of your weather belay Tough crying
                      1. Bongo
                        Bongo April 27 2020 14: 39 New
                        +6
                        Quote: ancient
                        Yes, my wife and I watch TV and ... just go nuts on your weather belay

                        But fun ... lol In vain, you at one time refused a post at KnAAZ, could have admired our hills from the Su-17UM3 cockpit. By the way, the remaining pair of Su-17UM3 at the plant was finally put to joke, for several years now they have not been lifted into the air, but they are not disposed of.
                      2. ancient
                        ancient April 27 2020 16: 01 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Bongo
                        In vain you at one time resigned from a job at KnAAZ,

                        She, as it turned out, was not in vain .... I love the sun (although it is contraindicated to me now) wink
                      3. NN52
                        NN52 April 27 2020 23: 00 New
                        0
                        Bongo (Sergey)


                        Do not this person, ranked as a flight crew ..
                        Read it, Sergey ..
                  2. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell April 28 2020 17: 22 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Quote: ancient
                    It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

                    Gentlemen, develop doubts, I already asked.
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    Quote: ancient
                    ..on such a question

                    You are not a sinner to enlighten about the accident of the Su-17, when it had torn off the rotary parts of the wing during a salvo from UPK-23?
                    Was there such a precedent?
        2. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky April 27 2020 12: 06 New
          +3
          she can hide from the radar on the extremely small

          Yes, if the height of the wave in the sea allows, that is, the weather. But the sea is far from always calm and fresh weather can cause the pilot to rise higher ...
          can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle, can evade a collision.

          The safest thing for an airplane is to attack the ship without entering its air defense coverage area. Otherwise, the anti-aircraft gunners will take him on the sight. So what's with the range of the Su-24 locator?
          1. Winnie76
            Winnie76 April 27 2020 12: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Brylevsky
            But the sea is far from always calm and fresh weather can cause the pilot to rise higher ...

            50 meters will suit you?
            Quote: Brylevsky
            The safest thing for an airplane is to attack the ship without entering its air defense coverage area.

            I will not argue
            Quote: Brylevsky
            . So what's with the range of the Su-24 locator?

            I have no idea. Only here the ESR of the ship is a multiple of the ESR of the aircraft, as well as the power of the radar. And besides, the plane has the ability to hide from the radar in the open sea, dropping lower, and the ship is not
            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky April 27 2020 12: 52 New
              +4
              50 meters will suit you?

              Дружище, там всё будет решать простая математика. Я посчитал, у меня получилось, что на высоте полёта 50 м, самолёт будет обнаружен кораблём на расстоянии около 45 км. Так что, теоретически, в дуэльной ситуации у Су-24 шанс на атаку есть. Более того, в случае отсутствия "третьих сил" типа АВАКСов и пр., у него даже есть шанс из этой атаки безопасно выйти...Высоту антенны РЛС у эсминца я принял за 15 м, не знаю, насколько это отличается от реальности...Померил циркулем по картинке laughing hi
              1. Charik
                Charik April 27 2020 13: 16 New
                +2
                yes? and what is the minimum missile launch? and 50 meters will not help
                1. Brylevsky
                  Brylevsky April 27 2020 13: 24 New
                  +1
                  yes? and what is the minimum missile launch?

                  Generally not in the know. You know?
                  1. ancient
                    ancient April 27 2020 14: 00 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Brylevsky
                    Generally not in the know.

                    Of those in service and, if possible, used .... 200 meters true ... but 300 is better (rocket subsidence ... it’s like that ... maybe the engine will start later) wink
                  2. Charik
                    Charik April 27 2020 15: 57 New
                    +3
                    here I’m talking about whether the rocket will turn into a torpedo
              2. ancient
                ancient April 27 2020 13: 58 New
                +2
                Quote: Brylevsky
                I calculated, it turned out that at a flight altitude of 50 m, the aircraft will be detected by the ship at a distance of about 45 km.

                The height of the radar antennas forgot to take into account wink D = 41,433. drinks
                Quote: Brylevsky
                So, theoretically, in a duel situation, the Su-24 has a chance to attack

                А .."атаковать" чем собираетесь...каким АСП? wink
                Quote: Brylevsky
                he even has a chance to get out of this attack safely ..

                0,0% soldier
                1. Brylevsky
                  Brylevsky April 27 2020 14: 14 New
                  +3
                  The height of the radar antennas was forgotten to take into account wink D = 41,433. drinks

                  No, I didn’t forget. I took the antenna installation height to 15 meters, with this installation height and a flight height of 50 m, the detection range is 45.1 km. hi
                  1. ancient
                    ancient April 27 2020 14: 36 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Brylevsky
                    a flight altitude of 50 m, the detection range is 45.1 km.

                    Well so be it ... drinks ...у каждого своя..."арифметика" wink
                    1. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky April 27 2020 14: 42 New
                      +1
                      у каждого своя..."арифметика" wink

                      laughing actually math is the same for everyone wink Вот ссылка на он-лайн калькулятор, я считал там. https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/ru-RU/calculator/radar-horizon/, так что никаких секретов...Сейчас прочитал в "Википедии", что у AN/SPY-1 дальность обнаружения низколетящих целей до 80 км. Вы, судя по-всему, имеете отношение к авиации? Тогда, как вы считаете: есть шансы у Су-24 выполнить ракетную атаку и при этом уцелеть?
                    2. ancient
                      ancient April 27 2020 16: 00 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      Then, in your opinion: is there a chance for the Su-24 to launch a missile attack and survive?

                      Шансы всегда есть...но в данном случае ..очень и очень..."мизерные" soldier
                      Well, if he is anchored or at the bank ... then the probability increases significantly.
                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      Сейчас прочитал в "Википедии", что у AN/SPY-1 дальность обнаружения низколетящих целей до 80 км

                      Не самый "надёжный источник". wassat
                      Низковысотными целями "занимаются" AN/SPG-62 и AN/SPQ-9A/B:
                      1. AN / SPG-62 radar operates in the X band (8-10 GHz), has a reflector diameter of 2,3 m, a peak transmitter power of 10 kW, and a range of 110 km. It performs the function of continuous illumination of the target at the final guidance site of the anti-missile defense SM-2 and SM-3 and thereby unloads the main radar SPY-1. It can be used as a review. On cruisers they put 4, on destroyers 3.
                      2. The multi-purpose AN / SPQ-9 shipborne gunsighting and control radar also operates in the X band (6-10 GHz), its peak power is 1,2 kW, rotation speed 30 rpm, range up to 37 km, maximum height - 6 km They say that a very good radar is resistant to interference from waves, rain and landscape in the coastal zone. Designed specifically for work on high-speed low-flying small-sized targets.
                    3. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky April 27 2020 16: 03 New
                      +2
                      Thank you for the detailed answer! hi
                      Не самый "надёжный источник". wassat

                      For not having a better recourse
            2. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 16: 03 New
              +1
              X35u, some were hung on the Su24, well, yes they write at least 200m in height, and here someone, in my opinion, wants to start up with a 50m -type so that the ship- the plane does not see
            3. bk316
              bk316 April 27 2020 18: 10 New
              +9
              Quote: Brylevsky
              he even has a chance to get out of this attack safely ..

              0,0% soldier


              Since I don’t understand a damn thing, in anti-ship missiles, but for some reason very much even in software for air defense systems laughing
              then I have VERY big doubts that when attacking a dozen su-24s with simultaneous launching of burke missiles, the carriers will ATTACK AT ALL. I can argue that the BIUS will prioritize the PCR and not the media, and not one SR each. Dryers quietly unfold and leave. And if at least one anti-ship missile hits the target, then forget about TTX berke. The modern destroyer is not a battleship; its combat stability depends entirely on the antenna economy - and this is cardboard for any missile.

              Actually the same problem is facing modern air defense systems. While this is being solved by creating an echeloned system, in order to destroy systems of large radius, one must first suppress the medium and small, and they are covered by the systems of the large. And the radar posts are separated by kilometers. Burke has none of this. Therefore, in the composition of the AUG, the berks are good, but in solitary swimming they are simply goals. Yes, the Americans themselves understand this. You doubt it, look at how the air defense of the AUG is arranged, this is really a problem.
          2. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 28 2020 04: 44 New
            -2
            Quote: Brylevsky
            that at a flight altitude of 50 m, the aircraft will be detected by the ship at a distance of about 45 km


            These destroyers, in addition to supporting AWACS and a bunch of other sources of information, also have a helicopter with a radar, a powerful electronic warfare that allows you to move the ship another km for the eyes and brains of the Su24 radar, if suddenly the war is not in reality, but in some then Narnia, where the destroyers lost in the ocean will go unaccompanied by a dozen similar to them and with Avik, and in splendid isolation, to be more honest against Sushka.
        3. ancient
          ancient April 27 2020 13: 30 New
          +4
          Quote: Winnie76
          50 meters will suit you?

          На какую дальность с такой Н " видит" ваша рлс? wink
          Have you flown a lot and for a long time on PRMV on the Su-24?
          Quote: Winnie76
          And besides, the plane has the ability to hide from the radar in the open sea, dropping lower, and the ship is not

          РЛС эсминца "засечёт" вас на Добн. около 40 км и средства ПВО сделают из вас "бифштекс" crying
    2. Cympak
      Cympak April 27 2020 12: 51 New
      +3
      For each TSA, avionics needs to be reprogrammed, and then tested. Also, given the age of the Su-24M, I will assume that it has an analog system :(
      In general, they are unlikely to bother and register new weapons on the Su-24M
      1. ancient
        ancient April 27 2020 14: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Cympak
        Also, given the age of the Su-24M, I will assume that it has an analog system

        Not really ... the analogue interface ... this is true ... but. An airplane in the control system (BCVS) includes a pairing device (DC) (in the form of an autonomous unit) that interacts with the central computing device (CVU) of the BCVM via a digital channel, or integrated with a digital computer through an input-output device (I / O).
        Quote: Cympak
        In general, they are unlikely to bother and register new weapons on the Su-24M

        Absolutely true assumption soldier
    3. Charik
      Charik April 27 2020 12: 57 New
      +1
      How many Zircons or Onyxes hang on Su24-Hindus like Brahmos one hang on the 30s
    4. My doctor
      My doctor April 27 2020 13: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Winnie76
      can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle,

      laughing out loud
    5. ancient
      ancient April 27 2020 13: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: Winnie76
      As we already found out, she can hide from the radar on the extremely small,

      Вы так.."плавненько" съехали с Су-24М...на .."всеобъемлющее" "Сушки" wink(right ... the business of the drowning - the business of the drowning themselves).
      What do you have .... tanks of dimensionless silt or tankers fly with you .... okay ... and will you refuel the same .. on PMV? wassat
      Quote: Winnie76
      Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it

      Это из серии...если бы у бабушки был..."один предмет"..она была бы .."дедушкой" wassat
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 April 27 2020 14: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: ancient
        Вы так.."плавненько" съехали с Су-24М...на .."всеобъемлющее" "Сушки" ( правильно...дело утопающих - дело самих утопающих).

        OK. Convinced. The old Su-24 is not shining against the new Burke. And modernization is most likely impractical.
        Quote: ancient
        Это из серии...если бы у бабушки был..."один предмет"..она была бы .."дедушкой"

        It turns out there is no subject for conversation. The Poles are infinitely right. Our pilots with their overflights are just a good mine in a bad game. And the Indians generally loshara with their Bramos-A
        1. ancient
          ancient April 27 2020 15: 43 New
          +4
          Quote: Winnie76
          OK. Convinced. Old Su-24 does not shine versus the new Burke

          Это радует, но...насчёт .."ничего не светит"...а вдруг....подвернётся случай ..история ведь знает примеры) wink
          Why upgrade if you already have a Su-34 ?.
          Quote: Winnie76
          Our pilots with their overflights are just a good mine in a bad game.

          But why... belay ? Замечали, что облёты проводят на Су-24МР...думаете.."просто так"...попужать?
          В остальном вообще не понимаю..."почему индусы ..лошары" belay ?
  • Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 11: 25 New
    -3
    Quote: _Ugene_
    if it goes all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m above the sea, then without the support of Avax, it may reach the missile launch range, but how will he capture the target under the radio horizon? ship radar is much more powerful and modern, there is no equal confrontation

    Ракета сама захватит цель.Там используется принцип "пустил-забыл".
    Most of the way the X-35 flies at an altitude of 4-15 m (depending on the unrest at sea). This makes it difficult to detect with radar and intercept anti-ballistic missiles. Approaching the target, the X-35 makes a jump and attacks, leaving the peak. The speed of the subsonic rocket is Mach 0,8–0,85. X-35 can be used in almost any weather conditions and in a storm of up to 6 points.
    High accuracy and noise immunity of the rocket are ensured through the use of the active-passive radar homing head (GOS) ARGS-35 developed by NPP Radar-MMS (St. Petersburg). It captures the target at a range of 20-50 km.
    “The homing head eliminates the use of radar stations. The missile independently moves toward the target and carries out the necessary maneuvers. The accuracy of the defeat is several meters. True, the GOS captures the target in the final phase of the flight, and after launch the rocket uses an inertial control system and satellite navigation means, ”Knutov said.

    https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/622075-raketa-h-35-boevye-vozmozhnosti
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga April 27 2020 11: 47 New
      +5
      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
      Ракета сама захватит цель.Там используется принцип "пустил-забыл".

      A target designation missile is not needed, and she herself determines the position of the target in space? It is clear that the X-35 PRR is induced by radar radiation, but this is not RCC.
      1. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 12: 00 New
        -1
        that the X-35 PRP is aimed at radar radiation, but this is not RCC.

        The X-35U never had a PRR. It was originally RCC. Have you read at least the quote I quoted above? Everything is written about the guidance system.
        A target designation missile is not needed, and she herself determines the position of the target in space?

        At first, it flies like a usual KR to a given point by satellite guidance, and then it itself captures the target of its ARGSN. Radar Su-24M is not needed here. Information about the position of the destroyer can be transmitted through the exchange of information with other units of a single information system of target designation by the same satellites.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 27 2020 12: 33 New
          +2
          and if the goal is nimble?
        2. bars1
          bars1 April 27 2020 12: 51 New
          +1
          Sky Strike fighter X-35U is equipped with an active-passive seeker.
        3. ancient
          ancient April 27 2020 13: 45 New
          +4
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          At first, it flies like a normal CR to a given point by satellite guidance,

          And who transmitted the coordinates of the target (initial) ... scout Vasya wassat?
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          The Su-24M radar is not needed here.

          Killed .... completely belay
          Так зачем кому-то и куда-то лететь..."пуляй" прямо со стоянки и ракета ..."полетит куда нужно"
          And there are no X-35 missiles on the Su-24M ... NO !!!
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          Information about the position of the destroyer can be transmitted through the exchange of information with other units of a unified target designation information system by the same satellites.

          Уже писал вам про профессора Преображенского....ну не надо читать...."сказки" на ночь wink
    2. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky April 27 2020 12: 12 New
      +4
      Ракета сама захватит цель.Там используется принцип "пустил-забыл".

      Да, но сначала пилот самолёта должен обнаружить цель. Предельная дальность стрельбы "Х-35" - 50 км. То есть, Су-24 должен будет приблизиться к американскому кораблю на D<= 50 км...Высоту установки антенн AGES в надстройке корабля не подскажите? Тогда можно будет легко подсчитать, что наступит раньше: или СУ-24 выйдет на рубеж ракетной атаки, или его раньше обнаружит (и уничтожит) американский корабль.
      1. Avior
        Avior April 27 2020 12: 53 New
        +4
        it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station, which will determine the operation of the airborne radar much earlier
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky April 27 2020 12: 59 New
          +2
          it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station, which will determine the operation of the airborne radar much earlier

          Where is she in this diagram?
          1. Avior
            Avior April 27 2020 13: 40 New
            +4
            the picture is old, it’s a destroyer of the 90s, and not everything is indicated there
            Now the REP station is planned to be finalized to version AN / SLQ - 32 (V) 5 with the expanded RTR reconnaissance station AN / SSX - 1. Antennas 13 are the PARs of the antenna of the reb station.
            But even if this particular one has not been finalized yet, the low-flying aircraft will detect AN / SPS-67- number ten in the picture.
            AN / SPS-67 - American two-coordinate ship survey and navigation radar. Provides detection and tracking of surface and low-flying targets.

            according to her data, you can’t shoot, she gives time to go into combat readiness.
            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky April 27 2020 14: 08 New
              +2
              the picture is old, it’s a destroyer of the 90s, and not everything is indicated there

              It is possible, yes.
              Слушай, дружище: открываю "Википедию", смотрю параметры работы радара AN/SPY-1, читаю: "80 км (низколетящие цели)"...Насколько низколетящие? Значит ли это, что у Су-24 нет никаких шансов на успешную атаку?
              1. Avior
                Avior April 27 2020 14: 58 New
                +3
                low-flying - 200 meters and below
                minimum launch height X-35 - 200 meters
                Launch conditions for the aircraft variant carrier altitude - 0,2-10 km
                carrier flight speed - 0,35-0,9 M

                http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-852.html
                the radio visibility formula is simple - D = 4,11 * (√ Hls + √ H targets) - the square root of the radar height add the root of the target’s height in meters, multiply by 4,11 — you get the range in kilometers.
                Aegis antenna height 20 m, launch height x-35 200 m, we get a range
                D=4,11*(√20+√200)=4,11*(4.5+14.5)=4.11*19=80 км
                but all this is an empty argument
                for x-35 and more, the range may be, but a couple of missiles from one aircraft EW ship will lead away without major problems, this is repeatedly tested in real conditions
                daddy can only happen by chance, like in Sheffield, only now the reb stations work automatically
                a separate topic, no less important is target designation
                if you shoot without a full knowledge of the situation, the missiles will easily go into some passing boat
                satellites provide information for reconnaissance in the capital, and not on a ship or fleet.
                and their possibilities are greatly exaggerated
        2. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky April 27 2020 13: 03 New
          +2
          it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station,

          Judging by the scheme, on the top of the mast is an antenna of a tactical navigation complex. But this is not electronic intelligence ... TACAN is designed for completely different purposes.
          1. Avior
            Avior April 27 2020 14: 09 New
            +2
            I can’t find you immediately
            all these pictures are greatly simplified, there are not many, only the main one is indicated
            this is the mast of the destroyer Oscar Austin, DDG-79 that you have in the picture, also in the old photo

            Pay attention to how many antennas and antennas there are that you do not have on the diagram.
            Я не могу наверняка сказать, куда там подключена антенна РТР, но допускаю, что это третий сверху "абажур" вокруг мачты с явно круговой диаграммой, хотя, повторяю, могу и ошибаться.
      2. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 13: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Brylevsky
        Ракета сама захватит цель.Там используется принцип "пустил-забыл".

        Да, но сначала пилот самолёта должен обнаружить цель. Предельная дальность стрельбы "Х-35" - 50 км. То есть, Су-24 должен будет приблизиться к американскому кораблю на D<= 50 км...Высоту установки антенн AGES в надстройке корабля не подскажите? Тогда можно будет легко подсчитать, что наступит раньше: или СУ-24 выйдет на рубеж ракетной атаки, или его раньше обнаружит (и уничтожит) американский корабль.

        The maximum firing range of the X-35U is from 260 to 300 km. 50 km from the target, the X-35U active-passive RGSN captures the target. Before that it flies by inertial to the targeting point.
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky April 27 2020 14: 11 New
          +1
          The maximum firing range of the X-35U is from 260 to 300 km. 50 km from the target, the X-35U active-passive RGSN captures the target. Before that it flies by inertial to the targeting point.

          Thanks for the alignment, I will know hi
        2. Charik
          Charik April 27 2020 22: 57 New
          0
          for the time that X35-2 is flying, let's say they shot from 200km, will the ship leave the detection area of ​​the pcr? or will it notice a rocket? Can this happen?
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 23: 30 New
            -2
            Quote: Charik
            for the time that X35-2 is flying, let's say they shot from 200km, will the ship leave the detection area of ​​the pcr? or will it notice a rocket? Can this happen?

            The missile will overcome 150 km in 10 minutes, 50 km to the target
            the target will capture its APRGSN. How much can a ship depart at 10 knots in about 35 minutes (about 60 km / h)? At 10 km, and the target will be captured by its APRGSN rocket from 50 km to the ship. Will not leave.
            or notice a rocket? Could this happen?

            If we get lucky.
            1. Alexander mosin
              Alexander mosin April 28 2020 19: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              and the target will capture a missile from its 50 km to the ship with its APRGSN

              Everywhere TTX X-35U 260km range, GOS starts to work from 20 km, and not 50.
              1. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 28 2020 20: 03 New
                0
                [quote=Alexander Mosin][quote=Sky Strike fighter]а цель захватит своей АПРГСН ракета с 50 км до корабля[/quote]
                Everywhere TTX X-35U 260km range, GOS starts working from 20 km, not 50. [/ quote]

                On the X-35UE, the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced by an active-passive radar seeker of the Gran-K type. Target detection (capture) range increased to 50 km.
                [/ Quote]

                [quote = Sky Strike fighter] [quote = _Ugene _] [quote] it’s really possible to attack using an external command center [/ quote] so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external control center, then let's and we add avaks, and then drying has no chance [/ quote]
                Come on, but there are not so many AWACS, but on condition of one on one - that is, the destroyer against the Su-24M with the X-35U, the latter has a satellite guidance system.
                [quote] In 2009, a modernized version of the Kh-35U missile, called the Kh-35UE, was presented, intended for delivery to foreign customers. After all the modifications, the starting weight of the rocket reached 670 kg. Dimensions remained at the same level. The engine and fuel tank taken from the Kh-35U provide the new anti-ship missile with a range of up to 260 km. According to some reports, a launch at a range of up to 300 km is possible. The most important innovation of the project was the updating of guidance systems. The inertial navigation system was supplemented by satellite, and the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced by the active-passive radar seeker of the Gran-K type. Target detection range increased to 50 km. [/ Quote]
                https://topwar.ru/76289-protivokorabelnaya-raketa-h-35.html[/quote]
                1. Alexander mosin
                  Alexander mosin April 29 2020 12: 50 New
                  0
                  Thanks for the info. But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? Indeed, hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses are often discussed. The question is still, if the GOS can carry out a capture from 50 km, then how will she see at 50 km, for the horizon, or the approximate flight height of 100-200 m allows this?
                2. Sky strike fighter
                  Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 13: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Mosin
                  Thanks for the info. But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? Indeed, hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses are often discussed. The question is still, if the GOS can carry out a capture from 50 km, then how will she see at 50 km, for the horizon, or the approximate flight height of 100-200 m allows this?

                  The flight altitude is 10-15 meters on the marching section and 3-4 on reaching the target.
                  X-35UE - export version of the X-35U - unified. In 2009, a significantly revised modification of the X-35 missile was introduced, which received the designation X-35UE. A new turbofan engine, half the size, was used, the design of the air channel was changed, which allowed to increase the fuel supply. These measures led to a twofold increase in the maximum range of rocket firing - up to 260 km. A new combined guidance system was used in the rocket, which, in addition to the previously used inertial and active radar homing systems, also included satellite navigation. The upgraded active-passive radar homing head "Gran-K" allows you to capture targets at a distance of 50 km, against 20 km from the basic version. Status (as of August 17, 2011): is being tested. The turning range reached 130 °. It has a ship, helicopter, coast and aircraft based. The flight altitude is 10-15 meters on the marching section and 3-4 on reaching the target. The mass of the warhead is 145 kg.

                  http://авиару.рф/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhenie/aviatsionnoe-vooruzhenie/sssr/aviatsionnye-rakety/upravlyaemye-rakety/ur-vozduh-poverhnost/protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-35/
                3. Sky strike fighter
                  Sky strike fighter April 29 2020 14: 07 New
                  0
                  But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? After all, often discuss hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses

                  In Syria, the X-35U was tested from the Su-34 on ground targets. Successfully.
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 21: 31 New
      +2
      The height of the PAR Berk is about 17 meters, the radio horizon is 32-33 km.
      1. Brylevsky
        Brylevsky April 28 2020 03: 05 New
        0
        The height of the PAR Berk is about 17 meters, the radio horizon is 32-33 km.

        Thank you, colleague! I'm a compass laughing on the scale of the circuit measured, I also happened somewhere somewhere ... hi
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 13: 32 New
    +3
    and the launch minimal, will not stick into the water? and where is the X35 on the Su24?
  • ancient
    ancient April 27 2020 13: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Sky Strike fighter
    The rocket itself will capture the target.

    Oh how ....... the rocket itself will find everything (somewhere) and somehow .... or all the same, the rocket must be given TsU initially? wink
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 13: 43 New
      0
      or all the same, the rocket must be given the original TS
      So from Avax go the coordinates of the target in real time
      1. ancient
        ancient April 27 2020 13: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: _Ugene_
        So from Avax go the coordinates of the target in real time

        Куда идут эти координаты...( Су-24М?) В какую .."систему"
        1. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ April 27 2020 13: 53 New
          0
          В какую именно "систему" не знаю, может вы подскажете? Или по вашему координаты цели с авакса бесполезны для берка? Они будут с точночтью до метров знать где сушка в као
          1. ancient
            ancient April 27 2020 14: 38 New
            0
            Quote: _Ugene_
            Or do you think the coordinates of the goal from Avax are useless for the burke?

            Sorry, I probably did not understand you and thought that you were talking about our A-50U and Su-24M recourse
  • ancient
    ancient April 27 2020 13: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: _Ugene_
    if it will be all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m.

    If you fly at such an altitude, then the destroyer should be no further than 200 km from the coast (and why the hell should he approach such a range? belay )......иначе .."не на чём" будет ...домой.."добираться" wink
    1. Alexander mosin
      Alexander mosin April 28 2020 19: 24 New
      +1
      You, as a person with experience, can already say for sure that the X-35U GOS makes a capture for 50km or 20km? Some people write here 50km, and I see 20km everywhere in the TTX tables? Nevertheless, the difference is significant.
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 15: 52 New
    +1
    yes? and we have a lot of such aces at such heights to pilot loaded
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok April 27 2020 11: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Winnie76
    Quote: _Ugene_
    ship's air defense sees him from far away

    Under the radio horizon?

    You forgot about AWACS and satellites. The destroyer constantly receives environmental information from external monitoring tools.
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 17 New
      +2
      Well, let's say there are not so many AWACS and far from always they accompany all ships, the satellite can help, provided that the airfields are known in advance and will track the drying from the moment of take-off, but then you need to add coastal infrastructure to this task, and this immediately changes everything
      If we consider a spherical horse in a vacuum, i.e. a single arly burke in the open sea without support against a single Su-24, then theoretically drying will be able to approach the launch distance at low altitudes, but it will certainly be destroyed
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 27 2020 11: 38 New
        -1
        Why on earth is it destroyed?
        1. Charik
          Charik April 27 2020 13: 45 New
          +1
          with the article SM2 + Aegis (radar type 1l13 or 55zh6)
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 11: 37 New
      -2
      To do this, your AWACS should be no further than 400 km from the line of attack. But to get information and be able to at least do something is still a big difference ...
      1. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 40 New
        +3
        But to get information and be able to at least do something is still a big difference ...
        in this case, it is a guaranteed defeat of drying, air defense can send missiles to the external Avax command center without seeing the target, on the approach of the GOS missile itself will find drying
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 27 2020 13: 50 New
          -1
          Can not. Why - explained.
  • ancient
    ancient April 27 2020 12: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Winnie76
    Under the radio horizon?

    And what anti-ship missiles are you planning to launch with the Su-24 and at what range? hi
    After all, in order to launch a rocket with an AGSN carrier radar, the same should take the target at the AS wink
    And at what range is this possible and at what altitude?
    And what is the response time of the ship’s air defense systems?
    1. Charik
      Charik April 27 2020 13: 49 New
      -2
      Yes, they shoot X35mi with Su24 or 24M from 50 km. Yes, and when the radar is on, the plane is already in the sight on the NK radar. And after 10 seconds 2-SM2 flies into the plane.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 01 New
        0
        - The usual X-35 flies 130 km, distant up to 270 km.
        - X-31A flies at 50-70 km, at a speed of up to 1 km / s. 50 km = 50 seconds. but the missile from the destroyer SM-6 (SM-2 flies slower) will fly on the same 50 km for 45 seconds. You’d at least watch Vicki.
        1. Charik
          Charik April 27 2020 16: 30 New
          0
          Oh, they made a mistake - they were going to shoot the X35 from a height of 50m, so that the ship would not see the plane, there was no question about X31, the SM2 rocket speed was about M = 3 The maximum range was up to 166,7 km, at least with 1000 km X35-2 let them will be shot down, if their pieces 20-30 shoot then it’s still possible to break through the Cook's air defense and there xs.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... April 27 2020 11: 26 New
    -1
    In general, if the destroyer is single, then the unit and even the Su-24 squadron can calmly approach a distance of 40-60 km below the radio horizon and launch anti-ship missiles in an amount sufficient to defeat it. To destroy a low-flying target within the range of launching missiles at a range of up to 250 km, a destroyer can only interact with the avionics F-35 using Link 16.
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 29 New
      +3
      being below the radio horizon and let go RCC in an amount sufficient to defeat it
      where to let RCC if the ship does not see the drying, in white light? they are lower than the radio horizon, the target needs to be captured by radar or visually detected, for this you will have to rise and immediately get under the ship’s air defense
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 27 2020 11: 34 New
        -5
        Read how it was during the attack of Sheffield. But in reality, an attack can be carried out by an external command center
        1. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 35 New
          +5
          in reality, an attack can be carried out using an external command center
          so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external management center, then let's add aax and then drying has no chance
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... April 27 2020 11: 41 New
            -4
            Of course I have. For to shoot beyond the horizon is useless. Only a bunch of F-35 + Aegis works. But really, in order to disable Burke, it is necessary to give a volley of about 20-24 RCC. That is 12 percussionists with 2 anti-ship missiles under each.
            1. _Ugene_
              _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 52 New
              +2
              For to shoot beyond the horizon is useless.
              why it is useless, the SM-3 has its own GOS, when approaching, it itself will capture the dryer
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 27 2020 13: 00 New
                -2
                No. Does the impressive Fiasco and Redoubt definitely not say anything? There, on the SM-6, the seeker is weak and the aperture angle of the ARGS is not very large, and in order for her to get somewhere with a missile launcher, it is highly advisable to bring to the target for radio correction and roughly put a nose. Therefore, Shooting without seeing the target = miss, or fam needs a Penguin.
                1. _Ugene_
                  _Ugene_ April 27 2020 13: 29 New
                  0
                  if the coordinates of the target go from avax in real time, why can’t they lead the missiles to the target and poke your nose?
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... April 27 2020 13: 36 New
                    -1
                    AWACS is not a firing station and the working range is different and the errors in determining the range and height of the target are very large. That is, of course you can shoot, only with a probability of 0.95 you won’t get anywhere. It was not for nothing that I reminded about the Fiasco with Redoubt, they even watched the target perfectly on the survey Furke. And this is better than getting the info from AWAX at times, but its accuracy did not fall below the baseboard. It was necessary to implement an emergency version of escort when shooting through the Puma.
                    1. _Ugene_
                      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 13: 56 New
                      0
                      Can I link to Fiasco with Redoubt?
                    2. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 12 New
                      -1
                      Damn big post napeysal so he flew nafig. I will be brief. I do not collect links. See the discussion of shipboard air defense systems of the Russian Federation on the forum of the Balancer. There Alex_Navy chewed why it works this way and not otherwise. On Courage, the holes of Aegis were also discussed. But he has holes and limitations.
                    3. _Ugene_
                      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 15: 10 New
                      0
                      those. AWACS is a surveillance radar and can not induce anything in principle?
                    4. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 16: 10 New
                      -1
                      No suggestion. Issue TSU yes.
          2. Charik
            Charik April 27 2020 16: 39 New
            0
            The SM-6 missile has the following advantages: The ability to simultaneously intercept any number of targets, the SM-6 missile, equipped with its own active seeker, does not need to “illuminate” the target with the radar of the carrier ship, which allows you to simultaneously intercept as many targets as there are missiles. targets hidden from the radars of the carrier ship beyond the horizon The possibility of effective destruction of stealth targets at long distances The possibility of more effective counteraction by means of electronic warfare - due to the bilateral data exchange with the carrier ship and the possibility of comparing data from the onboard radar of the rocket and the radar of the ship. The ability to intercept ballistic targets
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... April 27 2020 21: 36 New
              -1
              Only 18 targets can be intercepted at a time, namely so many channels of radio correction. If you shoot further 15-20 km of missiles without radio correction there will be a miss with a guarantee.
              1. Charik
                Charik April 27 2020 21: 50 New
                0
                as if there are fools, they put rockets that miss, do we have the same situation with the C300 ship as we do with the SM?
              2. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 27 2020 21: 59 New
                -1
                Вы читаете что вам пишут? Или "я так вижу"?: У Иджиса 18 каналов радиокоррекции. Что обеспечивает наведение 18 ЗУР по 18 целям. Если вы выпустите SM-6 , без радиокоррекции, то шанс попасть будет на сравнительно небольших лдистанциях, не более 20-30 км. Дальность захвата ПКР типа Уран АРГСН от SM-6 в районе 3-7 км. Угол раскрыва не велик. Чтобы гарантировано попасть, надо подвести ЗУР с АРГСн к цели с помощью радиокоррекции и буквально ткнуть ее носом в цель..

                And in real combat conditions, an average of 1 out of 3-4 missiles hits the target.
              3. Charik
                Charik April 27 2020 22: 11 New
                0
                But isn’t 18 channels enough against 2 Kayaks or Uranians or X31 A and P, what’s the discussion about the fact that one Su24 will sink Burke, what? There are extremely low altitudes with jumps of 50 km from the ship, well, you read it yourself they saw, I understand that if Burke is loaded with everything that the RTR can do, low-altitude flights, inconspicuous PKR, then one is not a warrior in the field.
              4. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 27 2020 22: 17 New
                -1
                Against 2, in theory, enough. How it will work in reality, God knows, in real shooting, Aegis shot at a maximum of 4 targets ...
                I immediately said that the minimum amount of anti-ship missiles in a strike should be at least 24 pieces. In this situation, with a missile defense breakthrough, there is a good chance of getting at least once.
              5. Charik
                Charik April 27 2020 22: 21 New
                -1
                so am I about the same that with one Dryer it is easier to disperse to Burke Banzai than with 2 missiles laughing
              6. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... April 27 2020 22: 24 New
                -1
                I certainly didn’t dispute that. By the way, really a squadron of drummers to defeat EM a certain standard from the time of WWII to this day
  • Avior
    Avior April 27 2020 12: 54 New
    0
    which will come from different directions, if on the one hand, these are optimal conditions for the operation of the ship's reps and traps.
  • Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 11: 50 New
    -3
    Quote: _Ugene_
    in reality, an attack can be carried out using an external command center
    so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external management center, then let's add aax and then drying has no chance

    Come on, but there are not so many AWACS, but on condition of one on one - that is, the destroyer against the Su-24M with the X-35U, the latter has a satellite guidance system.
    In 2009, an upgraded version of the X-35U rocket, called X-35UE, was presented, intended for delivery to foreign customers. After all the modifications, the launch weight of the rocket reached 670 kg. Dimensions remained the same. The engine and fuel tank taken from the X-35U provide the new CRP with a range of up to 260 km. According to some reports, it is possible to start at a distance of 300 km. The most important innovation of the project was the update of the guidance systems. The inertial navigation system was supplemented with satellite, and the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced with an active-passive radar GPS of the “Gran-K” type. Target detection range increased to 50 km.

    https://topwar.ru/76289-protivokorabelnaya-raketa-h-35.html
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 54 New
      +3
      if the satellites support drying, then the berka too, and then the drying position is known in advance with an accuracy of meters despite the low height
  • Avior
    Avior April 27 2020 11: 53 New
    +4
    on Sheffield, the radar was turned off - prevented by phone chatting
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 13: 52 New
    +2
    you can still remember about 2MV when the Japanese banzaili
  • strannik1985
    strannik1985 April 27 2020 11: 47 New
    0
    where to let RCC if the ship does not see the drying, in white light?

    Probably an external data center?
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 48 New
      +1
      we do not consider the external CPU, this is a different story
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 April 27 2020 11: 49 New
        +1
        Then the comparison is pointless.
        1. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ April 27 2020 11: 55 New
          +2
          if we consider drying with external support, then the berks should be with external support and it will be Avaks, nothing good will come of it
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 27 2020 12: 02 New
            -1
            Yes, but with one on one AWACS will not be.
            1. _Ugene_
              _Ugene_ April 27 2020 12: 02 New
              +2
              with one on one and the external control will not be
            2. Charik
              Charik April 27 2020 16: 47 New
              0
              Maxim, again? There X25 drowned here 35mi, yes, with no chance of one or two Su24 even modernizing the destroyer even with SM-2, even more so since SM2 was removed and there are such anti-missiles that remain Su24mu among at least 10 vehicles with 300 km to shoot, if he has the ability to carry such missiles
          2. strannik1985
            strannik1985 April 27 2020 12: 10 New
            -3
            if we consider drying with external support

            Ну и как? Сильно помогли ВМС Румынии ЭМ "Дональд Кук"?
            1. _Ugene_
              _Ugene_ April 27 2020 12: 11 New
              +4
              а что "Дональд Кук" потопили или хотя бы повредили? вполне возможно что сушка была обнаружена и условно уничтожена задолго до опасного сближения
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 April 27 2020 12: 20 New
                -1
                а что "Дональд Кук" потопили или хотя бы повредили?

                No, but how will the Romanian Navy help in this?
                1. _Ugene_
                  _Ugene_ April 27 2020 12: 23 New
                  +2
                  I don’t know, but what about the Romanian Navy? sort of discussed the effectiveness of the su-24 against arly berk
                2. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 April 27 2020 12: 29 New
                  -2
                  I don’t know, but what does the Romanian Navy have to do with it?

                  Потому, что "Дональд" участвовал в маневрах с ВМС Румынии и Болгарии.
                3. _Ugene_
                  _Ugene_ April 27 2020 12: 58 New
                  +2
                  in the waters of the Black Sea in general it makes little sense to discuss all this, everything from the Crimea is shot at by coastal complexes
                4. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 April 27 2020 13: 24 New
                  0
                  Do you think regular joint maneuvers in the Black Sea are purely for political support? I agree.
              2. Charik
                Charik April 27 2020 13: 56 New
                0
                in the Baltic?
        2. Charik
          Charik April 28 2020 01: 40 New
          -1
          from last week they’re drowning - they’re heating up X25mi now with 35mi then with two then with one Su24
  • Avior
    Avior April 27 2020 12: 04 New
    +1
    can only work with avionics F-35 using Link 16.

    or with Hokai, he is also able to transmit the necessary coordinates
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 April 27 2020 12: 22 New
      -1
      It remains to find out what they forgot over the Black Sea F-35 and Hokai?
      1. Avior
        Avior April 27 2020 12: 56 New
        +1
        and who will forbid them to fly there, international waters?
      2. Charik
        Charik April 27 2020 13: 57 New
        0
        It remains to find out where the case discussed now
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 17 New
      -1
      Not as far as I remember, Hokai does not provide the necessary accuracy of target tracking.
    3. venik
      venik April 28 2020 13: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Avior
      or with Hokai, he is also able to transmit the necessary coordinates

      =======
      А что, "Хокаи" теперь уже и с эсминцев типа "Берк" летать научились? А авианосцам в Черное море вроде как заход запрещен! (т.е. "оттуда" - можно, а "туда" - ни-ни!).....
      1. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 28 2020 19: 59 New
        -1
        Quote: venik
        And aircraft carriers in the Black Sea seem to be prohibited!

        By whom and when?
        1. venik
          venik April 29 2020 11: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          By whom and when?

          ========
          Montreux Convention of 1936 (Articles 10 and 11 on the types of warships having the right of free passage through the straits), as well as restrictions on the tonnage of ships non-Black Sea states residing in the Black Sea. hi
          1. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 29 2020 12: 53 New
            -1
            Ok, thanks, I didn't know. But didn’t Amer Avik enter the World Cup in 2008.08.08? It seems that I remember something, reluctance to dig in the internet.
            1. venik
              venik April 29 2020 19: 59 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Mosin
              But didn’t Amer Avik enter the World Cup in 2008.08.08?

              ===========
              No, I didn’t come! In the World Cup, never had an American aircraft carrier! In August 2008, the flagship ship (control ship) of the 6th US Navy Mount Whitney displaced 18.4 thousand tons.

              Он хоть внешне и смахивает на авианосец, но ничего общего с ними не имеет - так себе - чисто "штабная посудина"! hi
  • ancient
    ancient April 27 2020 14: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    In general, if the destroyer is single, then the unit and even the Su-24 squadron can calmly approach a distance of 40-60 km below the radio horizon and launch anti-ship missiles in an amount sufficient to defeat it.

    What anti-ship missiles are you planning to launch from such a range and at what height? wink
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 49 New
      -1
      RCC can be launched from low altitudes by making a small slide. Aegis reaction time of at least 10-15 seconds and the first start, the maximum can be overslept. Rate of fire 1 / rocket per second from the ship. SAM flight time per 100 kilometers is approximately 90-100 seconds. That is, during this time you can make the slide calmly aim at the radar and launch the X-35, then go to ultra-low altitudes to begin the retreat. Mustache. Now the destroyer will not be up to the bomber. The amplitude of the salvo of anti-ship missiles from one side will be around 8-12 seconds. The required outfit of forces to kill Burke is the Bomber squadron with 2 anti-ship missiles each.
      For the X-31, the tactics will be slightly different.
      1. ancient
        ancient April 27 2020 15: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        SAM flight time per 100 kilometers is approximately 90-100 seconds.

        You are mistaken .... exactly half soldier
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 27 2020 16: 02 New
          -1
          No, you are fundamentally wrong. Actually, since 3.5 M is the maximum SAM speed, the actual flight time will probably not be much more.
          3.5M is approximately 1150-1200 m / s
          100 km / 1150 or 1200 m / s = 83-86 seconds.
          1. ancient
            ancient April 27 2020 18: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            No, you are fundamentally wrong.

            Ну значит у американцев ракеты..."медленные" , аналогичные наши 9М96 имею 2100 м/сек. wink
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... April 27 2020 19: 04 New
              -1
              At a speed of 9M96, how many sources there are so many opinions.
      2. ancient
        ancient April 27 2020 15: 32 New
        +2
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        RCC can be launched from low altitudes by making a small slide.

        1. What exactly are anti-ship missiles from a Su-24M airplane?
        2. Время на "процесс обнаружения, прицеливания и Ц/У" для штурмана.?
        3. Что такое "размах залпа"? belay Maybe the density of the salvo and the number of missiles in the stream?
        4. Это как вы "лихо" рассчитали потребный наряд сил и средств? Чем руководствовались? wink
        Is it really part III of the Guidelines for the combat use of TSA? bully

        If my memory serves me, then for guaranteed destruction of the destroyer four or five hits are necessary (missiles of the type X-31AD, X-35U)
        . When calculating the probability of a lesion, its value is taken no lower than 0.8. (Based on a range of 75% of the maximum).
        Получаем дальность пуска примерно 187 км.( т.е. в принципе есть возможность атаки и с большей дальности и "возможности" ПрНК позволяют).
        (Depending on the D to the target from the launch line, you can .. one Su-34 can handle wink)
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... April 27 2020 16: 07 New
          -1
          item 1. - X-35
          item 3. - volley of salvo? The time interval between the release of missiles. Not?
          item 4. Well no. I'm a sailor and not a pilot. TR Navy-90. And memory is cheating on you. 2 anti-ship missiles with a probability equal to 0.8 destroyer will be destroyed.
          1. ancient
            ancient April 27 2020 18: 19 New
            +3
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            item 1. - X-35

            1.Not applicable with Su-24M soldier
            2. The time interval between volleys.
            3. Цитата из предыдущего комента - ".... для гарантированно уничтожения эсминца необходимо четыре или пять попаданий (ракеты типа Х-31АД,Х-35У."
            "Хто" говорил за 2-е ПКР? belay
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... April 27 2020 18: 55 New
              0
              Under item 1. Good wish to consider question X-31?
              Under item 2. I remember differently, but okay. Not the point.
              According to paragraph 3. I say. 2 anti-ship missiles for the loss of fighting capacity Burke enough.
            2. venik
              venik April 28 2020 00: 15 New
              -1
              Quote: ancient
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              item 1. - X-35

              1.Not applicable with Su-24M soldier
              belay

              =========
              Yah???
              "...Currently carriers X-35U there were several series of surface ships of the missile boat / corvette class, Su-24 aircraft, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 and anti-submarine Tu-142, as well as Ka-27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K helicopters. The missile is used as part of the Bal coastal missile system. ...." (https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili)
              P.S. Так что? Все-таки ПРИМЕНЯЮТСЯ? Или гужно "матчасть" подучить? bully
              1. Sasha_rulevoy
                Sasha_rulevoy April 28 2020 06: 57 New
                0
                Quote: venik
                Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 aircraft and anti-submarine Tu-142, as well as Ka-27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K helicopters.


                In real life, the X-35 was only allowed with the Su-34.
                1. venik
                  venik April 28 2020 08: 10 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Sasha_rulevoy
                  In real life, the X-35 was only allowed with the Su-34.

                  ========
                  Саша! А КАК в наше время можно отличить РЕАЛЬНОСТЬ от "виртуальности"? request
              2. ancient
                ancient April 28 2020 11: 38 New
                +3
                Quote: venik
                Так что? Все-таки ПРИМЕНЯЮТСЯ? Или гужно "матчасть" подучить?

                "Мат. часть" надо изучать не по "Известиям".
                Доработки Су-24М по бюллетеням КБ( 89-90гг). по СУО и БЦВС проводились и Госы (этап Б) по пускам Х-31А иХ-31П ( тогда и появился ПДК -Л-021( один из Литеров "головы"),. я неоднократно об этом писал....чем это "закончилось"..писать не буду bully
                I saw the 2nd modified car bully
                А если верить "слухам" то половина алжирских МК доработаны, а для сирийцев вроде бы при ремонте ихних Су-24МК2.
                Все наши Гефестовские машины "вроде бы могут", но только при отдельной доработке СУО.
                Так что ваши утверждения и высказывания типа....."да ну"...не принимаются.
                Yes - it’s when it’s in service and is widely used soldier
                Ask a question ... how many pilots and navigators in combat units have experience in using X-31A and X-31P missiles? wink
                1. venik
                  venik April 28 2020 13: 29 New
                  -2
                  Quote: ancient
                  Improvements to the Su-24M according to the KB bulletins (89-90gg)

                  =======
                  Excuse me, WHAT is our year in the yard? In my opinion, the 2020th .... Or am I mistaken?
                  -----
                  Quote: ancient
                  Yes - it’s when it’s in service and is widely used

                  ========
                  RCC X-15 and X-22 - also were in service .... And you know of cases of their mass use?
                  ------
                  Quote: ancient
                  Ask a question ... how many pilots and navigators in combat units have experience in using X-31A and X-31P missiles?

                  ========
                  А Вы знаете СКОЛЬКО экипажей имели опыт (хотя бы 1 учебного) пусков Х-15? Отвечаю: На полк морской авиации - 1-2! Остальные бросали "болванки" (массо-габаритные макеты)!!!
                  ------
                  Quote: ancient
                  Все наши Гефестовские машины "вроде бы могут", но только при отдельной доработке СУО.

                  =========
                  А СКОЛЬКО из них "доработано" (на день сегодняшний)? Вам известно?
                  PS I understand of course that you pros в вопросах авиации... Не знаю только, Вы и СЕЙЧАС "в теме" или воспоминания о днях минувших?
                  P.P.S. Это - "не в обиду будь сказано" - просто по своей "родной" армейской тематике даже и не представляю ЧТО сейчас есть и насколько "оно" ушло ВПЕРЕД!
                  1. ancient
                    ancient April 28 2020 18: 21 New
                    +1
                    Quote: venik
                    Excuse me, WHAT is our year in the yard? In my opinion, the 2020th .... Or am I mistaken?

                    Why is this an inappropriate question? ... I wrote to you the period of time when newsletters on revisions about which I know were issued ......

                    .
                    Quote: venik
                    RCC X-15 and X-22 - also were in service .... And you know of cases of their mass use?

                    Why is it ... standing belay X-22s are still standing and ... they feel great ... for your information
                    All regiments that were armed with X-15 missiles (one squadron in Orsha, Bobruisk and Shaikovka) since 1986, regular launches were carried out, up to and including removal from service.
                    А Х-22 "пуляют" до сих пор....при СССР так вообще в планах БП стояло по 3-4 практических пуска на полк...не считая внезапных проверок.
                    Your humble servant was launching ed.098.107 and 102 at n.500 and n.600
                    Про "моряков" не скажу...не знаю были они у них вообще (так как это не цели для МРА) soldier
                    Quote: venik
                    А СКОЛЬКО из них "доработано" (на день сегодняшний)? Вам известно?

                    I wrote how many of them were converted .. I DO NOT KNOW ... were in Lipetsk and Pereyaslavka (in those days).
                    Quote: venik
                    Не знаю только, Вы и СЕЙЧАС "в теме" или воспоминания о днях минувших?

                    Исключительно "воспоминания о днях минувших" ну и "инсайд" со встреч с ветеранами drinks ( есть же " молодые" ветераны, которых мы в своё время "обучали").
                    I quit the Russian Armed Forces in December 1999.
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal April 28 2020 17: 30 New
          +1
          X-35 - an easy target for air defense of the ship (as many say about Harpoon).
          The X-31A has a significantly shorter range (with a low altitude flight profile) and a weaker warhead.
          (When flying at high altitude, the risk of a shotdown due to earlier detection increases).
          In addition, having shot back at the ship, the crew should be ready that several SM-6s will fly in to its soul.
          An attack on a rocket ship of the 1st rank by one (and not the most modern) tactical bomber is a pure adventure.
          Again, this situation involves a war with the United States (for what?), In this case, the destroyers will not sail, as in peacetime.
      3. Charik
        Charik April 30 2020 00: 29 New
        0
        bullshit bullshit
  • venik
    venik April 27 2020 14: 38 New
    0
    Quote: _Ugene_
    very large epr (from different angles 10-25 sq.m.)

    ========
    Это, простите - "носовой проекции" 25 кв.м????? Т.е. 5х5 метров??? belay what fool lol
  • rocket757
    rocket757 April 27 2020 10: 38 New
    16
    Ничего нового, такие у "мальчиков игры".
    Просто смешно смотреть, как "лавочник" кидается "защищать" кардинала fellow
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 April 27 2020 10: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Просто смешно смотреть, как "лавочник" кидается "защищать" кардинала

      No wonder, because together they are a terrible force!
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 27 2020 11: 04 New
        +2
        Something like this. Who is there at Sherkhan and who is spinning under his feet?
        1. Vasyan1971
          Vasyan1971 April 27 2020 11: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Who is there at Sherkhan and who is spinning under his feet?

          Is it that who is most often sick with rabies and runs into the jungle in fits, biting everyone in his path?
          As far as I remember this story, near the end of the book, Gray Brother broke his spine.
          "Сказка ложь, да в ней намёк, добрым молодцам урок"©. Но не всем...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 27 2020 11: 14 New
            +2
            And do not pick up scraps for all! It may not be so troublesome, but the result is predictable at a time!
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka April 27 2020 10: 39 New
    +6
    all this bravado right up to the first shot, and that will be all simple, or you will tighten or turn it away
    80 years ago, the French turned away, and those who were in the Brest Fortress sjudzed and stepped into immortality
  • smart ass
    smart ass April 27 2020 10: 40 New
    +2
    Falkland War Claims Otherwise
    1. Charik
      Charik April 27 2020 10: 52 New
      +3
      Yes, but in 2MB, ships were rammed in general by planes and threw free falling, and even earlier .......
      1. smart ass
        smart ass April 27 2020 11: 16 New
        -1
        If you drop deeper then Su 24 and take off inappropriately, any NATO ship in the Black Sea lives as long as Russia allows .... balloons, bastions have not been canceled
        1. Charik
          Charik April 27 2020 12: 40 New
          0
          Yes, everyone trains as much as possible, but why discuss mouse squeaking, the article was already last week, everything was discussed there
    2. Avior
      Avior April 27 2020 12: 57 New
      -1
      you're right.
      not a single entry of anti-ship missiles into the combat-ready combat ship
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 18 New
        -1
        Right ?! And in someone let more than one rocket?
        1. Avior
          Avior April 27 2020 16: 27 New
          -1
          exactly
          not a single entry of anti-ship missiles into the combat-ready combat ship
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 27 2020 10: 42 New
    +5
    You can say anything you want ... in a combat confrontation a lot depends on the skill and ingenuity of people, and not just on technology ...
  • Kalmar
    Kalmar April 27 2020 10: 42 New
    13
    Firstly, why is there such a lot of attention to the Polish media lately? Are there any cool experts formed?

    Во-вторых, по-моему, и так совершенно очевидно, что одиночный Су-24 для эсминца существенной угрозы не представляет. Его цель, скорее, просто обозначится: типа, "а мы вас видим".
    1. Alexander mosin
      Alexander mosin April 28 2020 20: 18 New
      -1
      Quote: Kalmar
      Во-вторых, по-моему, и так совершенно очевидно, что одиночный Су-24 для эсминца существенной угрозы не представляет. Его цель, скорее, просто обозначится: типа, "а мы вас видим".

      So this is what the Polish article discusses, that all these Drying maneuvers over Cook have only a propaganda character and no combat value. And someday fly, once again.
  • Andrey the Magnificent
    Andrey the Magnificent April 27 2020 10: 43 New
    0
    Опять про этот " Дональд Кук" вот достается кораблю,гоняют его наши ,как вшивого по бане!!!))) fellow
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 27 2020 11: 43 New
      +8
      On the contrary, the sailors are thrilled. No boredom and patrolling routine,
      а "экшен". Фотки, видео. Будет что дома женам или девушкам рассказать.
      Both Russian and American sailors and pilots love such interceptions.
      and simulated attacks. In peacetime - the very juice! fellow
      1. cniza
        cniza April 27 2020 12: 28 New
        +3
        It has always been like this, and it continues like this, everyone is working on each other ...
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... April 27 2020 14: 20 New
        -1
        When a tornado passes 50 meters on board, the feeling is not very
  • HAM
    HAM April 27 2020 10: 43 New
    +2
    Поляки не похвалят...так кто же ещё?Может полякам что то обломится с этого(всё таки назначат "любимой женой").
    А почему польский "перехватчик" при виде СУ скакал с выпущенными шасси,пугал что ли??
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 April 27 2020 11: 00 New
      0
      He demanded that he land at his airdrome from drying.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 27 2020 11: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: meandr51
        He demanded that he land at his airdrome from drying.

        Where he only there saw the airfield what ... Да и на каком основании у идиота-пилота, возникло желание "пригласить" на свой аэродром ?
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 April 27 2020 13: 01 New
          +1
          This is Polish ambition, reaching the point of idiocy. Or just decided to troll.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent April 27 2020 13: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: meandr51
            This is Polish ambition, reaching the point of idiocy. Or just decided to troll.

            That one, that the other - foolishly looked ...
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 27 2020 10: 44 New
    0
    Polish edition of Defense24.
    Bad is the Pole who does not deeply lick the United States and does not show off over Russians. Therefore, the position of the media is understandable and understandable.
    Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to
    Ku, ku poles ... You will ask the Americans what happens to the electronics of their ships when flying our plane if they (the Americans) do not understand that they are required to get away in neutral waters and not interfere with the exercises. Admiring American power and belittling the capabilities of Russian weapons has often been observed on the site in the comments of some (grouped) visitors.
    1. Alexander mosin
      Alexander mosin April 28 2020 20: 27 New
      0
      Quote: rotmistr60
      You will ask the Americans what happens to the electronics of their ships when flying our plane if they (the Americans) do not understand that they are required to get away in neutral waters and not interfere with the exercises.

      Apparently the Americans themselves told you what happens ?? Laughter attack can? Or are you from the Khibin witness sect? And how did Drying fly over Cook? Was he scared and turned around?

      Quote: rotmistr60
      Admiring American power and belittling the capabilities of Russian weapons has often been observed on the site in the comments of some (grouped) visitors.

      Adequate people discuss technical features without reference to any nation or country. Some have more developed industry and technology, while others have less.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx April 27 2020 10: 47 New
    +3
    He does not sit at home. So fucking complain.
    В комментах к видео, через один - "эти русские, они такие агрессивные"..)))
  • Forest
    Forest April 27 2020 10: 48 New
    -2
    Дырявая иджис ,как "супермен из голливуда".
  • Olddetractor
    Olddetractor April 27 2020 10: 49 New
    +1
    And yet they fly. And some just write and everything about someone else’s
  • Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone April 27 2020 10: 52 New
    0
    if scolded, then everything is in order
    1. Charik
      Charik April 29 2020 17: 23 New
      0
      Where-who-who-scolds?
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 April 27 2020 10: 53 New
    +1
    Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to

    Да да да. Осталось теперь только сказать что-нибудь типа: немцы не потому нас захватили за 27 дней, что они были "такие хорошие и так прекрасно обучены", а потому, что мы им это позволили. wassat
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 April 27 2020 10: 59 New
      +1
      Whom is this you?
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 April 27 2020 11: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: meandr51
        Whom is this you?

        Not clear from the context? Flood hunting?
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 April 27 2020 13: 06 New
          -2
          А это не флуд и провокация, утверждать, что немцы захватили "нас" за 27 дней? Непонятно, кого это они захватили...
          1. Vasyan1971
            Vasyan1971 April 27 2020 13: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Vasyan1971
            Not clear from the context? Flood hunting?
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 27 2020 10: 54 New
    0
    "Данное мнение выразило польское издание Defence24."
    Deflection counted. The grub is earned. You can wipe the foam at the mouth. laughing
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 10: 57 New
    0
    This topic was chewed and spat out last week, it is not clear why now discuss what the mice say about it.
  • meandr51
    meandr51 April 27 2020 10: 57 New
    +2
    Это не боевой заход, а напоминание о том, как к ним относятся и где они находятся. Чтобы жизнь медом не казалась. Чтобы не было "головокружения от успехов", что их боятся. Никто их не боится, утопят сразу, если что. Никакой Иджис не поможет, даже, если что и собьют.
  • Chingachguk
    Chingachguk April 27 2020 11: 01 New
    +1
    Everything would be so if it were not for the videos posted by Cook's sailors themselves.
    Второй момент, с какого перепуга я должен верить какому то поляку, получающему зарплаты именно за такого рода статьи, основной посыл которых - попытка подмочить репутацию РФ - Путина, по скольку сам президент, отвечая на вопросы журналиста ответил что именно так и было, что к сушке под крылом прикрепили новую разработку наших оружейников под названием "Хибина", и ею потушили новейшую американскую разработку Иджис.
    Better to tell how the United States flew to the moon with the help of Hollywood ...... It will be sooooo interesting to listen!
    1. Alexander mosin
      Alexander mosin April 28 2020 21: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: Chingachguk
      Everything would be so if it were not for the videos posted by Cook's sailors themselves.


      And what is so sensational on this video ?! Glad Yankees for whom the show was staged?

      Quote: Chingachguk
      Второй момент, с какого перепуга я должен верить какому то поляку, получающему зарплаты именно за такого рода статьи, основной посыл которых - попытка подмочить репутацию РФ - Путина, по скольку сам президент, отвечая на вопросы журналиста ответил что именно так и было, что к сушке под крылом прикрепили новую разработку наших оружейников под названием "Хибина", и ею потушили новейшую американскую разработку Иджис.


      Khibiny never put on the Su-24. This time. And two, ask first what Khibiny is in general and their purpose. Statements that the Khibiny are capable of drowning IJIS are enchanting nonsense and outright lies. It’s similar to the video that Putin showed to the American director how the Russian Air Force hacked babaev in Syria, which was not from the Russian Air Force, but from the US Air Force and not in Syria, but in Afghanistan ..
      1. Chingachguk
        Chingachguk April 29 2020 07: 02 New
        -2
        Well, if you said so, then it is !!!!!!
        "Хибины» (изделие Л-175В) — советский/ российский авиационный комплекс радиоэлектронного противодействия ( КРЭП)."
        And what to do with this? wink
        Or do you think that the Internet exists only for you? We can continue to google ..... wink

        "Прилетевший к "Дональду Куку" российский фронтовой бомбардировщик Су-24 не имел на борту бомб и ракет. Под фюзеляжем висел один контейнер с комплексом радиоэлектронной борьбы "Хибины". Сблизившись с эсминцем, "Хибины" выключили его радар, боевые управляющие цепи, системы передачи данных - короче, выключили весь "Иджис", как мы выключаем телевизор нажатием кнопки на пульте. После этого Су-24 сымитировал ракетную атаку на ослепший и оглохший корабль. Потом еще одну и еще - всего 12 раз.

        Когда бомбардировщик улетел, "Дональд Кук" поспешно направился в румынский порт приводить нервы в порядок."
        Still google it? wassat
        1. Alexander mosin
          Alexander mosin April 29 2020 12: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Chingachguk
          Or do you think that the Internet exists only for you? We can google further ..

          Are you deliberately fooling people with this nonsense here? Can it be written on your Internet that the moon is actually square? We will discuss how much the square moon?
          1. Chingachguk
            Chingachguk April 29 2020 13: 11 New
            0
            Hahahahaha! Funny you .... Poorly prepared !!!
            So my internet is not correct, but yours is correct ??? good
            I take your word for it! Hello to employers !!!!!!! drinks Yes! Is the moon triangular on your internet?
            And who only pays you for your activity here? lol
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 11: 08 New
    +2
    The Poles are right in one - the span in the immediate vicinity of the ship is a psychological attack. To destroy Burke or the like, you do not need to do this at all. It can also be drowned for 400 km. Moreover, he, quite possibly, will not even guess about it.
    1. Chingachguk
      Chingachguk April 29 2020 07: 08 New
      -1
      The goal was simply to humiliate .... 12 times to simulate an attack ...... Humiliated above the roof! And why go so far from home?
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 11: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: Kalmar
    Quote: Winnie76
    Under the radio horizon?

    After the horizon and drying the destroyer will not see after all.

    What about interacting with the ground services that the destroyer sees over a thousand kilometers? They will not help their, hiding below and not visible, where to crawl to get where it is necessary?
  • Jarserge
    Jarserge April 27 2020 11: 15 New
    0
    Twists and distortions of Polish servility to the owner can cause nothing but disgust.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 11: 17 New
    -1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

    Will it be right if we pretend that we don’t notice? Maybe we’ll send our on duty to Florida? If we had the opportunity, most certainly, they were on duty, and not only near Florida.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 11: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: _Ugene_
    Yes, if we consider the confrontation in its purest form, it is unlikely that the Su-24 will be able to approach the destroyer at the launch distance of the PKR, the old plane, a very large epr (from different angles of 10-25 sq.m.), ship's air defense sees it from very far away

    Let them get used and stop paying attention. Doesn’t the idea come to mind that we train them specially? Surprise can fly quite unexpectedly. For example, well modernized and with a different hitch? Moreover, when we need it.
  • Stalllker
    Stalllker April 27 2020 11: 41 New
    0
    Strange they are, Su 24 is just a delivery vehicle for missiles that will sink US destroyers
    1. Charik
      Charik April 27 2020 17: 00 New
      +1
      yes they’ll sink, but how many planes and missiles are needed? And here they kill a cookie with one 24m with two X35 (where did they come from-xs)
      1. Stalllker
        Stalllker April 28 2020 02: 07 New
        -1
        В что нибудь посерьёзнее его "одеть", а не в х35
        1. Charik
          Charik April 29 2020 17: 19 New
          0
          And what can be dressed more seriously on the Su24 (I even doubt about the 35s on it)
    2. Kasym
      Kasym April 27 2020 22: 04 New
      +1
      Это скорее всего Су-24МР - разведчик. "Предназначен для ведения комплексной всепогодной разведки днем или ночью на глубине до 400км. ... Полученная развединформация может обрабатываться прямо на борту самолета в полете. Информация передается на землю по закрытым каналам связи, фотоинформация может сбрасываться в спец. контейнерах". Эта развединформация, скорее всего, нужна для береговых комплексов "Бал" или "Бастион". hi
  • Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill April 27 2020 11: 49 New
    +4
    With real databases, a couple of Dryers against one Burke will do nothing, Burke will shoot them.
    Another thing, if we are talking about 10-12 Dryers, Burke will not physically manage it there physically.
    And now, in peacetime, all this is just a window dressing, no more. And on both sides!
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 April 27 2020 12: 03 New
    +2
    Su-24 can fly over American ships
    So the joke itself is that the Russians can, but the Polish can’t. They can’t fly either over American, and even more so over Russian. that’s saliva and airplanes that place in the museum, you would have looked at your fleet 50% percent older than our Su-24 would be ...
  • Romario_R
    Romario_R April 27 2020 12: 25 New
    +3
    Такие статьи формируют в сознании обывателей, по разные стороны баррикад, возможность "локальных войнушек" между ядерными сверх державами. Хорошо бы авторы не забывали оканчивать статьи рассказами про ядерную зиму и возможную вечную тишину на планете земля.
  • Amateur
    Amateur April 27 2020 12: 28 New
    -1
    Очередной "Острый поляк головного мозга". negative
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt April 27 2020 12: 38 New
    0
    because Americans allow them to
    But what, they may not allow it? Well, let them try.
  • iouris
    iouris April 27 2020 12: 46 New
    0
    А что здесь можно возразить? Однако тема обмана не раскрыта: кого обманывают? Самих себя, не обманешь, "партнёров" ("коллег") обманывать бессмысленно. Что в "сухом остатке"? Правильно. "Пишите, Шура, пишите свои гири."
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 27 2020 12: 48 New
    0
    Let them tell the Syrian barmels, they will listen to them.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 13: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: Charik
    that's about how some container was able to drown out ship electronics - the option of ground-based eb is more real

    If we estimate the distance from the ship to the flying aircraft and from the ship to the electronic warfare station on the shore, we get something like this:
    20 meters from the ship to the plane less than 20 km from the ship to the coast. That is, it differs 1000 times. At such a distance, the EW signal strength is weakened squared from the distance, that is, 1000 ^ 2 = 1000000 times. If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts, then in order to have the same effect, the coastal must have .... Difficult to calculate. Will you help? Is this, in principle, possible?
    It was not necessary to go to school to smoke cigarettes in the toilet.
    1. iouris
      iouris April 27 2020 15: 00 New
      0
      Quote: vkd.dvk
      If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts

      You can think of it, only 15 kW is the rated power of one aircraft generator.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 13: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

    Enough of a single one. Airplane here is not for a fight. He is for psychological abuse. And, according to print reviews, it worked.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 13: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Jarserge
    Twists and distortions of Polish servility to the owner can cause nothing but disgust.

    I would say that there are much stronger feelings than servility. FANABERIA. DULL, ALL ABSORBING FANABERIA. Christians call it pride. Leading to sin and falling in Hell.
    Quote: Max1995
    But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.
    Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.

    After Cook, the same thing was written about at least one more destroyer (he’s like in the World Cup now), but already more confused and stupid.

    Remember the groundhog .....
    I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.
    1. Avior
      Avior April 27 2020 15: 10 New
      -1
      I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.

      it has long been known
      The country must know its hero
      Hero's name is Dmitry Sedov
      the source of all the hype is this comic article, which television turned into a serious report
      http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2014/04/17/etot-prokljatyj-russkij-metallolom-27063.html
      Мэри, ты не можешь представить, что с нами было! Такого позора мы не переживали никогда в жизни. Некоторые наши парни рыдали, как дети, другие бились головой о бездействующие приборы, старший помощник на глазах у экипажа выпил из горла бутылку виски и орал на весь корабль: «Эти долбанные русские "Хибины"» (российская система радиоэлектронной борьбы. – Д.С.), а капитан был зелёный от злости. В таком состоянии мы едва смогли пришвартоваться к румынскому берегу, и сразу после швартовки три десятка наших парней написали рапорт на увольнение. Они не смогли вынести мысли, что в решающий момент наша техника может превратиться в дерьмо, вместе с которым им придется идти на дно морское. Со мной же случилась истерика и меня отвезли в госпиталь. Мэри, я всегда любил нашу Америку и хотел, чтобы звездно-полосатый флаг нёс свободу всему миру. Но после этого случая мысль об увольнении стала меня преследовать. Чёрт с ними, с деньгами, моя дорогая. Лучше мы с тобой купим маленькую ферму в Аризоне, будем выращивать на продажу сельдерей и петь псалмы в нашей церкви по воскресеньям. Я думаю, что Америке лучше не брать под защиту наших братьев по демократии на Украине. Уж если одно старое русское корыто смогло положить на бок наш суперсовременный «Дональд Кук», то представь, что могут наделать их новые самолеты! А если они способны подавлять не только приборы, но и мозги экипажа? Сама подумай, зачем я тебе нужен без мозгов? Крепко тебя целую, всегда твой Джонни.

      but this part of the story on television was modestly omitted
      smile
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK April 27 2020 14: 53 New
    +1
    Poland is a prostitute and listening to her nonsense is disgusting! Even more disgusting is that they publish it with us.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 02 New
    0
    Quote: iouris
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts

    You can think of it, only 15 kW is the rated power of one aircraft generator.

    Come up with it yourself. But you still have to multiply by a million. Has it become easier?
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 04 New
    0
    Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    Poland is a prostitute and listening to her nonsense is disgusting! Even more disgusting is that they publish it with us.

    Need to publish. Otherwise, as in the USSR we will be snotty and stupid. Consider the bros of any bastard.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 09 New
    0
    Quote: vkd.dvk
    Quote: novel xnumx
    the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

    Enough of a single one. Airplane here is not for a fight. He is for psychological abuse. And, according to print reviews, it worked.

    I will supplement it. They SPECIALLY sent this type, which does not have bomb bombs, with weapons on suspensions, outside. And he showed an empty belly, demonstrating that he was not armed.
    Would they send FAT him? Think.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Max1995
    Wah! This is great ... yes, yes, Ukrainians call it overpower!

    From the shore !! Soak your EW destroyer somewhere near the center of the World Cup !!! Yes, and disguise it as EW Su !!! Yes, so that they all wrote down tearful letters and were covered with horror! Yes, so that no one has noticed this, except cheers-media !!
    In general, a great breakthrough.

    No wonder the breakthrough began to multiply.

    The destroyer "Porter" later, read on the Internet, it already displayed 3 SU, with the same result - electronic warfare, letters, dismissals in tears, and no one except ura-smi did not notice, even the Chinese ...

    Write down, read your opus, blush with shame and write sensibly what you wanted.
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 14 New
    -2
    Quote: novel xnumx
    if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..

    A working AWACS is still visible on takeoff. He risks the most in the group. His first will be buried.
    1. Charik
      Charik April 29 2020 17: 15 New
      0
      Yes, as soon as they break through the cover of Avax
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 15: 16 New
    -2
    Quote: novel xnumx
    I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of

    Conduct a survey. Among those who crap one's pants and decommissioned after the campaign. Or did they just FIND a reason not to risk it? Then blame them for lying and plant ....
  • Klingon
    Klingon April 27 2020 15: 38 New
    +1
    oh well, got this Pshek bay. By the way, Pszekiah now exists only because at one time Peter and Katerina allowed them to do this. TCs were busy with other, more important matters.
  • Topol M
    Topol M April 27 2020 16: 13 New
    -1
    Psheki! And you check for lice military component of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. You have already received more than once in Susal, do you want more?
  • polikutin.e
    polikutin.e April 27 2020 16: 16 New
    +3
    Nothing, but the Poles probably just as well encouraged the unforgettable Adolf until he came to their guests. Everything in the world is cyclic. And in the new repeats.
  • Bukhryakov Alexander Vasilievich
    Bukhryakov Alexander Vasilievich April 27 2020 17: 22 New
    +1
    Neither what is the version for himself, the author probably got stoned or stoned whatsoever before you sit down to write such an article
  • Votyak
    Votyak April 27 2020 17: 25 New
    +1
    " А мой брат боксёр, я позову его и он тебе морду набьёт..."
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 17: 28 New
    +3
    And in general, Burke doesn’t shoot - they don’t shoot at him, it looks more like reconnaissance or a flag demonstration, and the war between the Russian Federation and the USA is waged by lizuns, perhaps without even imagining that there WILL be a TRUE WORLD, I think the Amer military themselves (part of them) - they understand and know that it’s worth it with Russia, and in general there would be fewer war fans in the world, there would be only Bush-Clintons-Rothsheels-Wrootweilers with their gangs to clean up-and there will be PEACE and grace-no one will arrange wars
  • Charik
    Charik April 27 2020 17: 40 New
    +1
    not exactly diby, compare NK and the plane
  • vkd.dvk
    vkd.dvk April 27 2020 19: 16 New
    -1
    Quote: Avior
    I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.

    it has long been known
    The country must know its hero
    Hero's name is Dmitry Sedov
    the source of all the hype is this comic article, which television turned into a serious report
    http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2014/04/17/etot-prokljatyj-russkij-metallolom-27063.html
    Мэри, ты не можешь представить, что с нами было! Такого позора мы не переживали никогда в жизни. Некоторые наши парни рыдали, как дети, другие бились головой о бездействующие приборы, старший помощник на глазах у экипажа выпил из горла бутылку виски и орал на весь корабль: «Эти долбанные русские "Хибины"» (российская система радиоэлектронной борьбы. – Д.С.), а капитан был зелёный от злости. В таком состоянии мы едва смогли пришвартоваться к румынскому берегу, и сразу после швартовки три десятка наших парней написали рапорт на увольнение. Они не смогли вынести мысли, что в решающий момент наша техника может превратиться в дерьмо, вместе с которым им придется идти на дно морское. Со мной же случилась истерика и меня отвезли в госпиталь. Мэри, я всегда любил нашу Америку и хотел, чтобы звездно-полосатый флаг нёс свободу всему миру. Но после этого случая мысль об увольнении стала меня преследовать. Чёрт с ними, с деньгами, моя дорогая. Лучше мы с тобой купим маленькую ферму в Аризоне, будем выращивать на продажу сельдерей и петь псалмы в нашей церкви по воскресеньям. Я думаю, что Америке лучше не брать под защиту наших братьев по демократии на Украине. Уж если одно старое русское корыто смогло положить на бок наш суперсовременный «Дональд Кук», то представь, что могут наделать их новые самолеты! А если они способны подавлять не только приборы, но и мозги экипажа? Сама подумай, зачем я тебе нужен без мозгов? Крепко тебя целую, всегда твой Джонни.

    but this part of the story on television was modestly omitted
    smile

    You know, I like Mark Twain's story better. Or Jerome To Jerome.
    There is real humor, and comes from the English-speaking mouth.
    Do you like these PERLs? Read. It is written for people like you.