"Su-24 - Russian deception": Polish media about the superiority of the US Navy destroyers

The Russians once again sent their Su-24 aircraft to an American missile destroyer such as Arleigh Burke. In the Russian Federation and Western media, actions of this kind are considered a demonstration of strength. However, when comparing the combat capabilities of the US Navy ships and the "attacking" pennants of bombers, they should be considered as a demonstration of stupidity. This opinion was expressed by the Polish edition Defence24.

"Imaginary threat from the air"

According to him, the Russians regularly try to pose a threat to American ships from the air, considering the low span over them as skill, strength and pride. On April 17, they once again tried to repeat a similar maneuver in the waters of the Baltic, when two Belgian F-16s intercepted a pair of Su-24s trying to get closer to the Donald Cook destroyer of the Arleigh Burke type.

Earlier, on April 12, 2014, this pennant was already “attacked” by the Su-24, which supposedly used the Khibiny electronic warfare, disabling the ship’s radar.

This information turned out to be a pure hoax, which the Russians invented, and later reproduced on the Internet and on television in the Russian Federation

- notes the Polish edition.

As she believes, "rumors about the inefficiency of American destroyers that you can allegedly drop in with such ease and, therefore, theoretically, destroy" are causing great harm.

Donald Cook

“Su-24 is a great Russian deception”

Production of the Su-24 started in 1971, and since Defense24 believes that it has the same equipment: 8 tons of bombs and missiles (in the Su-24M version), a 23-mm cannon, Orion-M combat radar ( with a range of 150 km), radar warning of exposure to SPO-15C "Birch", station active interference "Gardenia". Modernization concerned only navigation and identification systems, the publication suggests.

Flights of the Su-24 over destroyers such as Arleigh Burke should be considered by American sailors only as a tourist attraction [...] their place in the museum

- considers Defense24.

As noted, the low approach of the Su-24 is not terrible for the pennants of the U.S. Navy, as they are accompanied by AWACS aircraft, shining through the air the entire route of the enemy or missiles fired by him. But the destroyers are able to cope on their own, having "the world's best naval combat system AEGIS."

Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to

- concludes the Polish edition of the clear superiority of the US Navy destroyers.

However, it is indicated that in the Baltic and in the Black Sea, the coastal-based anti-ship complexes “Ball” and “Bastion” pose a much greater threat to American ships.

Comments

[novel66]

routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

Garbage, garbage, but a "potential enemy", and after six years, USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) sausages from triumphant shame ...

And the Poles ... The Poles are also scared.

Something with my memory has become
All that was not with me - I remember.

HELLO, CHEF! EVERYTHING LOST, EVERYTHING LOST!

[Maks1995]

But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.
Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.

After Cook, the same thing was written about at least one more destroyer (he’s like in the World Cup now), but already more confused and stupid.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Max1995

But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.

On the network, on the VO, it is possible, too, "dismantled" and "Boeing" MN-17 (shot down by an air defense / fighter / blown up) here ...

So what ? Did it somehow shed light on the hidden? And what kind of "uncles-aunts" were not involved from all interested parties ...

Quote: Max1995

Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.

Is it really customary to blow this whole world? And actually, according to recent information dosed by the Russian side, Cook's problems arose not from exposure to the Su-24, but because of the use of electronic warfare from the coast of Crimea ...

"Rusty Russian Su-24", with its flight only morally finished off the helpless destroyer team ...

[Charik]

that's about how some container was able to drown out ship electronics - the option of ground-based eb is more real

[vikot9]

There wasn’t any electronic warfare at all, this is a fictional nonsense

[figwam]

Quote: Insurgent

Rusty Russian Su-24 ", with its flight only morally finished off the helpless destroyer team ...

Namely, they were jammed by modern systems, but they can be destroyed by an old bomber, the Yanks were shown what would happen to them in reality, but apparently they do not understand, stupid.

[Maks1995]

Wah! This is great ... yes, yes, Ukrainians call it overpower!

From the shore !! Soak your EW destroyer somewhere near the center of the World Cup !!! Yes, and disguise it as EW Su !!! Yes, so that they all wrote down tearful letters and were covered with horror! Yes, so that no one has noticed this, except cheers-media !!
In general, a great breakthrough.

No wonder the breakthrough began to multiply.

The destroyer "Porter" later, read on the Internet, it already displayed 3 SU, with the same result - electronic warfare, letters, dismissals in tears, and no one except ura-smi did not notice, even the Chinese ...

[seregatara1969]

In the war, the U-2 became a formidable night bomber. It terrified the enemy, and the Su-24 was older. Ukrainians out of the maxim still bullet. Here the price + efficiency is important

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Insurgent

after six years, sausages from the triumphant shame of the USS Donald Cook

"Cook's shame" is only in your fantasies. There was nothing but a banal flyby of the ship. They do not carry and have never carried the Su-24 "Khibiny" ...
And no one in the world, except for the Russian media of a certain persuasion, noticed the "shame of Cook" ...

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Insurgent

Garbage-garbage, but a "potential enemy", and after six years, the USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) sausages from triumphant shame.

This shameful comedy with Kukk, Sushka and "Khibiny" is a good indicator of the adequacy, or awareness of those who constantly talk about this topic. And if a person is adequate and not a nerd, but still fools people with tales of "dismissals of frightened sailors from Cook after the incident with the Su-24 and the Khibiny, which were never on the Su-24, but which drowned out the radar the size of a Khrushchev", then apparently work such, otherwise the motivation is not clear. It is not clear what the shame of the Cook team is, from what they should be sausage? What didn't you bring down Drying? For those who give such orders, to arrange an air show for American sailors, risking the lives of both Sushka's pilots and Cook's sailors, the prison cries, as for me. In addition, such maneuvers are a violation of the USSR-US treaty since the 70s, after a Soviet aircraft crashed into the water in a similar show in front of American sailors.

[novel66]

Tu-16, by the way, 9 crew members

[avg]

We not only scare them, we train, we are looking for vulnerabilities in AEGIS.

low flying Su-24 is not terrible pennants of the U.S. Navy, as they are accompanied by AWACS aircraft, shining through the air the entire route of the enemy or missiles fired by him.

Is our Su-24 alone fighting with all of NATO?

Su-24s can fly over American ships ... because Americans allow them to

So the Americans roam the Baltic only because we are not opposing.

[...] their place in the museum

The entire Polish bomber fleet is 120 Su-22 fighter-bombers with a bg coefficient. 0.3-04. Something "great Polish genius" for all the years did not create anything of his own.
In a word: "Poles are such Poles ..."

[novel66]

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

[Charik]

with a dozen with any long-range

[novel66]

given the amount of air defense equipment on board - I doubt very much

[Charik]

Perhaps something will go out of pieces 20-X59 of some kind of modification, they seem to be low-profile, maybe they maneuver?

[Charik]

96 cells-3 cells of each launcher are used under the crane to reload units, reducing the total number of cells available for missiles by 6 units — that is, 90 — let's say half the air defense — 40-50pcs SM, I think pieces 30-40PCR — will be a problem for Burke- and this is 20pcs-Su24, but here he was defeated by one

[Mimoprohodil]

it is possible to put 1 RIM-4 ESSM in 162 cell. There will then be 30 SM-6 and 80 ESSM, instead of 50 SM-6

[Charik]

ohhh actually then how many PCRs in one salvo do you need to deal with Burke? or they’ll kill Cook in the Baltic for a week, then first X25mi from two Su24-the first video from F16 — where he flew to Cook and there are two more Dry hawks , today CookBird has already drowned 2 x35mi

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Charik

ohhh actually then how many pcr in one salvo do you need to deal with burke?

You overestimate the abilities of Amer’s weapons !!!

[Charik]

I’m overestimating, I think it's quite early that the Su24 can not oppose Burke in the context of the described situation, even at extremely low altitudes, at least from maximum range

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Charik

I think

It's your problems!!!

[Charik]

it's not my problem that the ship is stronger than the plane

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Charik

I think 30-40PCR pieces will be a problem for Burke, and this is 20pcs-Su24, but here he was defeated by one

And do you think that in the case of a serious mess, this Cook will walk alone on the seas? The USA has only 100 of them, additionally Tikhonderogs and a bunch of all sorts of others, as part of the AUG. Cook will see Sushka’s approach long before she can launch a rocket at him, not only thanks to her radars, but also to the AWACS or other AWACS radars. So if you are going to sink one destroyer with 20 suicide bombers on the Su24, then what do you send to another ten other ships?

[Charik]

Alexander Mosin-you read what people talk about? One on one, who-who? Burke vs Su24

[Alexander mosin]

But this is nonsense, such a situation will never happen, except that the MO decides in peacetime to send Sushka to bomb the destroyer, which does not suspect anything.

[ultra]

In the case of a serious mess, nuclear warheads will fly in both directions. And neither drying nor burki will be needed.

[Charik]

So Su24 flew to Burke, and some say everything - hypothetically, he is killed

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Charik

96 cells-3 cells of each launcher are used under the crane to reload units, reducing the total number of cells available for missiles by 6 units — that is, 90 — let's say half the air defense — 40-50pcs SM, I think pieces 30-40PCR will be a problem for Burke

actually less. AN / SPY-1 can simultaneously direct missiles at 18 targets. Nevertheless, the rate of fire is not unlimited. Although technically Burke can launch missiles at intervals of a second, this applies only to a salvo of 16 missiles. The number of missiles currently at the final section of the trajectory cannot exceed three units (by the number of target illumination radars) - i.e. you will have to wait for a hit (or miss) to release the guidance channels and evaluate the effectiveness of the shooting. It takes some time to prepare the data for launching the next missiles.
In addition, the decimeter AN / SPY-1 does not really favor ultra-low altitudes.

If the attack is carried out from a relatively short distance (thereby reducing the flying time of the attacking missiles), at low altitudes, and even from different angles, when active interference is involved, Burke will be very hard.
Phalanx pieces are accurate, with their own radar, but the small firing range and 20 mm BOSP do not always allow you to cope with your task. There is a known case when a rocket struck by ZAK fire (or rather, its fragments) reached the ship and the superstructure was crushed.

[Charik]

Yes, you can kill one X22 either, or I don’t remember those with the armored head P500 or 700, Grigory_45 - well, they immediately whitened him with one Su24

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

given the amount of air defense equipment on board - I doubt very much

who said that it is effective ?? !!! will be happy if a couple of rockets take off at least ?? !!!

[Charik]

the same thing can be said about RCC, who said that they are effective? -Will we be glad if both start with 24 or two and the water does not fall?

[novel66]

Kolyunchik! periodically allowed, and, interestingly, get

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

Kolyunchik! periodically allowed, and, interestingly, get

If the current is not where it was necessary !!!

[Charik]

oh well, Nikolai Grek on the Su24 will surely approach the launch distance, that there you can throw it with the Su24 in Burka, and Burke is cardboard or air defense or radar and in general they can be heated in batches

[Boratsagdiev]

Not so simple.
As their exercises show, even with a probability of 100% completion of the ship's air defense "spot-hit-shoot down" - there is no guarantee that the debris from the "carcass" of the missile will not overtake its target.
Yes, and "incidents" take place in life.

[Cyril G ...]

There was a target drone stuck in the superstructure of Burke

[Charik]

I saw a photo where the training torpedo in the submarine was stuck

[avg]

Here, like that of the Crimean woman, the daughter of an officer, everything is not so clear. The leading role in such a battle will be played by the organization of interaction.
Who will find the destroyer and will direct the Su-24 (satellite, ground-based radar, ship, plane. Helicopter), whose electronic warfare will work, weather, skill, and so on. How many planes attack, who supports.
A well-known vulnerability of IJIS - radars operate in the decimeter range, radio waves are well reflected from the sea surface, and the system is "lost" at ultra-low altitudes. This is where the Khibiny and not only should work. And the Kh-35U (standard for the Su-24) fly at an altitude of 3-5 m in the final section of the trajectory, it can shoot from 260 km, the GOS captures the target from 50 km. 2x broken Kuku missiles are enough.

[novel66]

subsonic and phalanxes can be shot down

[Sky strike fighter]

You will first find them to bring down.

[novel66]

if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..

[Protos]

Quote: novel xnumx

if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..

At 67 ArlyB 30 combat-ready E-3 Sentry

[Charik]

et only for amers? and for the allies, and the little ones from Avik Hokai, so estimate that for every Burke enough

[Charik]

You start them first, so that you don’t understand where to wait

[avg]

Aegis leads them too.

[novel66]

they seem to have their own locator

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

they seem to have their own locator

This is the one that also Was EW Suppressed Or Another?

Actually, after a certain impact of electronic warfare and emergency de-energization of the systems and the impossibility of restoring their performance, the Stinger MANPADS will remain on the cookie from the working air defense ...

[novel66]

X-35, as far as I know, has no REB

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

X-35, as far as I know, has no REB

Why did she need her? Should other systems do this electronic suppression work?

[novel66]

from what distance ???

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

from what distance ???

Do not know But you ask the Russian Defense Ministry, they know for surefrom what distance и than Kukish was "cut down" on 12.04.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX ...

[novel66]

I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of

That's it,suckedwithout having enough information.
After all, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation had just begun to "reveal" the details, in which the Su-24 became just an extra that appeared over Cook's lifeless carcass in the final scene ...

Do not believe your army?

[novel66]

I believe in the laws of physics

[Insurgent]

Quote: novel xnumx

I believe in the laws of physics

Reasonable position

And proceeding from it, let's try to understand the background of the question.
For example, at the beginning of the twentieth century, physicists, having basic knowledge of the fundamental theory of radio wave propagation (unshakable until now), could they clearly and realistically imagine an over-the-horizon radar (for example, "Don-2n")?

[Victor_B]

Quote: Insurgent

could clearly imaginehorizontal radar (for example "Don-2n") ?

Don is never over the horizon!
(Careful! Careful!)

appointment
Outer space control in Russia and the Commonwealth countries, detection of ballistic missile attacks, their escort and anti-missile guidance.

[Boratsagdiev]

Or maybe you don’t need to go so deep into the jungle? ...
Maybe everything is easier with electronic warfare? and just ask the Israeli guests how some systems work for them (in the same Syria).
They do not stupidly stifle, but clog them with false goals ... and the system does not cope and freezes (or reacts to something wrong and wrong).
I see many have already forgotten this name - "jammer".

[novel66]

yes, the missiles painfully smart went, learned to rebuild

[hydrox]

At the beginning of the 20th century, A.S.Popov only discovered the attenuation of r / waves during the passage of the ship between the signal source and the receiver, and at that time there was not even at least some theory, and not that fundamental - be afraid of Gd!

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Insurgent

Do not believe your army?

Do not believe in the ravings about the Khibin on the Su24 and that the Cook radar was suppressed by some mysterious electronic warfare, and other similar fantasies, then you are the 5th convoy, Russophobe and foreign agent, because the officers serve in the army (especially in the press center of the Russian Ministry of Defense), honor and all that, but they will never lie, Generalissimo Shoigu will not let you lie!

[avg]

Aegis - BIUS controls everything.

[novel66]

Well, I don’t know, we were taught that they have a regime of their own guidance, they are looking for a target and when they are found they open fire

[avg]

They can do it themselves. If memory does not change "they see from 15-20 km" but for this they need to be transferred to an independent mode and then they interfere with Aegis and the reaction time increases. Missouri, Iraq, slept two missiles. In general, Aegis does not perform well in a tight order.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: avg

Aegis - BIUS controls everything

Phalanxes can work automatically. ZAK provides an autonomous search and detection of targets in the designated shooting sector, assessment of the degree of their threat, selection of the most dangerous target, capture, tracking and determination of its movement parameters, firing, automatic shooting adjustment, ceasefire (after hitting a target or leaving the firing sector ), search and capture a new target.

[Charik]

It’s not even a bad zak, but! Some say that the Pkr goes so low that the Phalanx can’t fire at it, I’m just xs.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Charik

It’s not even a bad zak, but! Some say that the PKR is so low that the Phalanx can’t fire at it

honestly, I haven’t heard of this. Phalanxes (like all similar ZAK) are used including for firing at surface targets - mines, boats, etc. True, in manual mode with the installation guidance on the TV-sight.

The Phalanx is not the best, but it is far from an outsider. Good firing accuracy (due to digital drives, algorithms for issuing data for firing and installing a gun and guidance system on a single platform), but a relatively low rate of fire and a small affected area - if the missile is not shot down in the first bursts, it has a chance to cause damage to the ship. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why these systems are gradually removed from the ships - the last Burks go without the Phalanx, the Israelis change their system on their ships (for SAM), develop larger-caliber and quick-fire systems (such as the Goalkeeper)
In addition, there were cases of unauthorized machine gun firing - during the Persian Gulf war, trying to bring down the Iranian anti-ship missiles, the phalanx of the frigate Jerrett did not notice the obstacles in the form of a Missouri battleship and stitched his bridge in line. The robot of the Japanese destroyer Yugiri during an exercise in 1996 shot down an American attack aircraft A-6 Intruder instead of a target towed by him (maybe that's why it is sometimes turned off?)

[Charik]

Well, then yes, the Phalanx is not a panacea against PCR, if it is one for the whole vessel, if it were like Avik - 6 pieces for the whole ship - that's why they came up with 4 Seasparow in one cell

[Grigory_45]

some courageous Samaritans set you up with cons ... I don’t understand why

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

subsonic and phalanxes can be shot down

Rum, have you heard how they "shot down", if my memory serves me right, two Iraqi anti-ship missiles? !!!

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

and you heard how they "shot down", if my memory serves me right, two Iraqi anti-ship missiles

Iraq in the allies was then with the United States and was hammering by accident. The Americans did not take part in the database on the side of Iraq, but everyone shared information. And the level of IJIS in the early 80s is a bit different today.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

USA then had allies in Iraq

that is, then such a hit of the type is not considered ??? !!!

Quote: Alexander Mosin

and stomped by accident.

that is, then you can not shoot down such missiles flying towards you ?? !!!

Quote: Alexander Mosin

The Americans did not take part in the database on the side of Iraq, but everyone shared information

however, they got on board !!!

Quote: Alexander Mosin

And the level of IJIS in the early 80s is a bit different today.

Yes Yes!!
PS ... tie a polish one place to amers !!!

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

that is, then such a hit of the type is not considered ??? !!!

No, it doesn’t count, because the Allies are not expected to rocket sideways, and the US Navy did not participate in the database. It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

PS ... tie a polish one place to amers !!!

Do not attribute your preferences and practices to me, do not judge by yourself. I am interested in the technical side of the issue and reality, and not in schizophrenic delirium and the opinion of local trolls, marshals, whose function on this site is to deny everyone who does not adhere to "patriotic" fantasies. If you think that the US destroyers' IJIS has not changed over the past 40 years and its combat capabilities have not increased, then your business and the level of awareness.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

No, it doesn’t count, because the Allies are not expected to rocket sideways, and the US Navy did not participate in the database. It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

it's all demagoguery ... the fact is that the missiles were detected and could not be shot down !!

Quote: Alexander Mosin

I'm interested in the technical side of the issue and reality

then we would ask how the Americans screwed up then !!

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

it's all demagoguery ... the fact is that the missiles were detected and could not be shot down !!

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

then we would ask how the Americans screwed up then

Demagoguery and delirium is comparing the 70s warship, if not more, which is no IJIS, which did not participate in the database and did not expect an attack from an ally, with modern destroyers Arlie Burke and believe that this can be repeated with him. If you call it "screw up", then how then to evaluate Kuzi's campaigns to Syria in 2019 ?!

[Charik]

Looking at the minuses they stuck to Alexandra, you tell them how it really was, as they say-even pour into the eyes

[Alexander mosin]

And "patriots" have never been interested in reality, slogans, delusional tales and schizophrenia are all of them. And since they rule in the country and the result is the same for 20 years, some fakes and failures.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Charik

you tell them how it really was

and how was it really ??? did you serve there ?? !!

[Charik]

no, the whole world has known about this for a long time, it’s not a secret even once, starting from 10 miles until bang bang aboard and all things, take Nicholas and read at least in pikvedi

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

and you heard how they "shot down", if my memory serves me right, two Iraqi anti-ship missiles? !!!

they didn’t even try, it was too late to launch missiles, and for the Phalanxes, the missiles were in the dead zone. Coincidence.
And frigates like Oliver Perry (which Stark belonged to) don't have Aegis.

[Charik]

Grigory_45-well, what do you compare, Burka with Perry, look at pikvediya everything is written about that incident (do not compare sausage with a finger)

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Charik

Well, what do you compare, Burke with Perry, look in piquediya everything is written about that incident

Yes, I am familiar with the story of how Stark caught two Exocet. We have lovers here to distort (Nikolai Grek)

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Gregory_45

We have lovers here to distort (Nikolai Grek)

that is, the missiles were shot down, but I distort everything ?? !!!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

that is, the missiles were shot down, but am I distorting everything ?? !!

the most convincing lie is one in which there is part of the truth.
No, the missiles were not shot down, they were not even tried to be shot down. That day, Stark was very unlucky, there was a series of accidents that led to the tragedy. But you carefully do not notice them, making a thoughtful conclusion that it was supposed to be so. And what will happen to any American ship, because they are pelvis painted in ball color, and the team on them is utter gouging. Your conclusions are a lie.

You have already been given an example with a tank and a grenade.

Quote: Alexander Mosin

It's like going to a tank with an open hatch, throwing a grenade at it and then declaring your tanks shit, one dude with a grenade can destroy them.

This is exactly what you judge. You are not interested in reality, nor is objective assessment.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Gregory_45

Coincidence.

you can always find some excuse !!!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Nikolai the Greek

you can always find some excuse !!

not an excuse, but an explanation.
By the way, how and with what will you justify (from your own slang) the incident with MRC Monsoon in 1987?

[Charik]

Again, find these Iraqi PCRs, Nikolai’s backstory in the same pikvedia, Iraq was an ally of the United States at that time, so the ship did not consider the approaching Mirage to be a threat

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Charik

therefore, the ship did not consider the approaching Mirage to be a threat

flying missiles are also not considered a threat ?? !!!

[Charik]

the launch was, as Pikivedia writes, with 10 miles (is it 15 km?) and it says that someone screamed, I see a rocket, but it was too late to rush about

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Charik

the launch was, as Pikivedia writes, with 10 miles (is it 15 km?) and it says that someone screamed, I see a rocket, but it was too late to rush about

here is the "professionalism" of amerskih warriors !! and over time it became much worse !!!

[Charik]

Nikolay Grek - yes it’s good to cast a shadow over the fence, in principle, yes, self-hypnosis is a powerful thing, you can even defeat any disease

[novel66]

so, they weren’t even included - read about that incident, they didn’t just overslept, but loved everything that could be!

[Charik]

there, even a sailor shouted that he saw a rocket, and since he saw it, it all arrived, especially since a launch from 10 miles

[novel66]

it was necessary not to yell, but to bring down the rocket from the machine gun

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

it was necessary not to yell, but to bring down the rocket from the machine gun

well, like this!! where is the guarantee that they also will not scam any other attack ?? !!!

[Charik]

yeah jump and saddle like the munhausen core

[st2st]

Over-the-horizon radar "Volna" can successfully track, warn, and jam IJIS. By the range in which the "Wave" can work, IJIS loses. Moreover, the range of our station is incomparably further

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: avg

This is where the Khibiny and not only should work.

Do you think it is possible to approach such a distance to a destroyer of the Arlie Burke type, which in the event of a serious mess will not sail alone off the coast of Russia, but there will be AUG, with a detection range of at least 1000 km radius?)) The Kh35U seeker locks a target from 20 km, which for Arlie Burke is not a problem, or will be rejected by electronic warfare, or bluntly shot down with the help of missile defense subsonic blank. And there were never any Khibins on the Su-24, this system was developed for later aircraft, for the Su-27, as a result, for the Su-34 and Su-35 and this system has been sawing for 30 years, until they finished it, it is outdated, and the modernization failed and there was a trial even in 2014. And even if, imagine such a situation, Sushka rushes to the destroyer, turns on the Khibiny and with this device, what, drowns out the giant both in size and power of the radar ?? And nothing that the Khibiny do not suppress anything at all? They were not created for this and not against such powerful radars as the IJIS radars, but rather the Thor-type radar and not to jam, but to slightly "blur the vision" of the radar, distort the distance, etc. All modern aircraft have similar systems.

[Tusv]

Quote: novel xnumx

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

Well, if you believe Vladimir Semenovich, then "Science is silent, they wanted to cook, but they ate Cook."
And so, the vidyuha is quite Hollywood. Out of nowhere, a Su-24 flies out at low altitude, followed by F-16 Falcons. And the Masterpiece. An anti-submarine turntable hovers over the destroyer in splendid isolation. No, this is not a movie. This is level XNUMX trolling. Or naval humor. Not well. And who tastes to taste? Cook is not ready yet. It is impossible to eat without salt. Yes, and "There's not enough horseradish" for this jellied fish

[venik]

Quote: novel xnumx

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

=======
It depends on what to arm!

[Spektr]

I don’t know how many Su-24 it takes to hurt Cook, but I think one Zircon will be enough.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: novel xnumx

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

all the hell !!

[novel66]

Yes, he can’t even repeat Gastello!

[Looking for]

But do not oppose. Because there is nothing.

[mole]

Quote: novel xnumx

routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

[novel66]

they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side

[mole]

Quote: novel xnumx

they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side

If only they didn’t burst from this tension.

[Fmax]

Like the previous 2 times? %)

[datura23]

so sections of Poland and occur

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: novel xnumx

they watch tightly in time to dash to the right side

This is when the Poles rushed in some directions?

[Sergey Medvedev]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

This is when the Poles rushed in some directions?

1938 - for Hitler. 1939 - against Hitler.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Sergei Medvedev

1938 - for Hitler. 1939 - against Hitler.

Since the Poles were "for" Hitler, then who was Stalin then, under Hitler? With both hands before the 41st.

[Sergey Medvedev]

We talked about the Poles.
And Stalin in 1938 asked the Poles to let the Red Army through to the aid of the allied Czechoslovakia. But the Poles were still for Hitler (together with Hitler they tore Czechoslovakia to pieces) and did not let him through. And then, in 1939, Stalin offered the Poles military assistance against Hitler, but they said they didn't need it. And the French and the British offered an alliance against Hitler (in August 1939), but they also said that they did not need it. Then Stalin said: "What do I need? More than anyone else?" And he signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler. He was the last in Europe to conclude, after the Poles, the French and other good neighbors of Hitler. The most interesting thing is that you know all this, but pretend not to know. Because the troll. Just a troll.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Mole

Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

in the free press ....

[avg]

Poles have a lot of ambition and megalomania. Hence the property - to fall into a meat grinder between the Great Powers, and then cry for a long time "The Polish has not yet perished ..." Poles, they have such a planid.

[Tusv]

Quote: Mole

Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

It’s not so clear that Cook is an object of ridicule for the naval aviation. The Poles posted a video on the network showing how much it was lowered. The Su-24 took the cover fighters away and the Ka-31 could easily launch a buoy with requests from radio listeners, so that "the collar does not get dirty and the head does not dangle." But this is already another series of Naval humor on trolling by Donald Cook

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Tusv

Not well, it’s clear that Cook is an object of ridicule for the Navy aviation.

Rather, there will be ridicule about this circus with the Khibiny and senseless, but primarily dangerous for the Su24 crew maneuvers. And in the aviation of the Russian Navy for a long time it is no laughing matter when they observe the development of the NATO Air Force and the degradation of the fleet in the Russian Federation, but they have to participate in such shows.

[datura23]

the safest thing, in your opinion, is the demobilization of aviation and the army and navy

[Alexander mosin]

What does demobilization have to do with it ??

[Barmal]

Quote: Mole

Quote: novel xnumx

routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

Where is the place of the Poles in this routine?

the Poles are in great hope that for them the Americans will squeeze the Black Sea from the Russians.

[mole]

Something a lot of comers

[Charik]

actually it was in the Baltic

[Barmal]

Quote: Charik

actually it was in the Baltic

Polska od morza do morza

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Barmal

Quote: Charik

actually it was in the Baltic

Polska od morza do morza

From walrus to walrus? Have they laid eyes on the Arctic?

[Barmal]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Quote: Barmal

Quote: Charik

actually it was in the Baltic

Polska od morza do morza

From walrus to walrus? Have they laid eyes on the Arctic?

They are Poles, don't put your finger in their mouths - they'll bite off. Everything is so simple - from sea to sea. And they are generally very "positive" in the case of access to the Black Sea, the Baltic Sea was presented to them by Joseph Vissarionich. And they are so ungrateful, creatures in one word.

[Fmax]

The Poles simply revised Kiselev, so they are trying to build caps from themselves.

[_Ugene_]

Yes, if we consider the confrontation in its purest form, it is unlikely that the Su-24 will be able to approach the destroyer at the launch distance of the PKR, the old plane, a very large epr (from different angles of 10-25 sq.m.), ship's air defense sees it from very far away

[Winnie76]

Quote: _Ugene_

ship's air defense sees him from far away

Under the radio horizon?

[Kalmar]

Quote: Winnie76

Under the radio horizon?

After the horizon and drying the destroyer will not see after all.

[Winnie76]

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon

[Kalmar]

Quote: Winnie76

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon

... to launch two X-35 missiles, which the destroyer can shoot down without any problems. Provided, of course, that the crew was not completely relaxed.

[Avior]

Even if it relaxes, the RTR-REB station traps all the same, it will shoot, when threatened, it works automatically.
The chances of circumventing the traps and the operation of the ship’s eb at a pair of PCRs launched from one direction are practically zero.
Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Avior

Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.

Reminds an ancient joke:

And today I in my "Moskvich" man in "Ferrari" overtook as a standing man! He was so crazy that he almost dropped the refueling hose!

[Yura]

Quote: Avior

Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship, then there are chances, and high.

On the contrary, we understand that if the SU-24 received an order to destroy the target, then an order to neutralize, possibly destroy the satellites, enemy AWACS was already given, well, a lot of the rest was done, because this is a war with everyone resulting consequences. And the Poles will not be up to publications, that's for sure.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Jura

we understand that if the SU-24 received an order to destroy the target, then the order to neutralize, possibly destroy the satellites, AWACs of the enemy was already given,

Well, yes, since the order was given, it means that they will beat AWACS! The truth is not clear what and how, but orders are not discussed! And after the order to beat all the AWACS, an order will be received to sink all the AUGs and to beat all the satellites ..

[ancient]

Quote: Avior

Even if it relaxes, the RTR-REB station traps all the same, it will shoot, when threatened, it works automatically.

With a "complex" flight profile of the anti-ship missile (Kh-31AD), no one has yet been able to intercept it

Quote: Avior

Now, if the attack is sudden on a sky-ready ship

And if the coordinates of this ship are also known or it .. "is on the bank" ... then this is already called .... "as on the range (or in the shooting range)" the probability of hitting the target is almost 99%.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: ancient

With a "complex" flight profile of the anti-ship missile (Kh-31AD), no one has yet been able to intercept it

And who tried to shoot her down? What is unbreakable in her? And how will the Su24 fit the missile launch range of the destroyer?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ancient

RCC (X-31AD) still no one has managed to intercept

sure? Do you think the United States bought MA-31 targets just so that they were?

The MA-31 target missile is designed to simulate supersonic missiles during testing of anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems and to develop skills to repel a supersonic missile attack by combat calculations of air defense systems. It can fly along a low-altitude trajectory to simulate supersonic anti-ship missiles, and along a high-altitude trajectory to simulate anti-radar missiles.

[Charik]

And that’s why they upgraded SM

[Charik]

Su24 and X35 maybe right calibers pcr and dagger

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Charik

Su24 and X35 maybe right calibers pcr and dagger

X-35 can be based on the Su-24, as well as on the Su-34.

The Kh-35 is designed to destroy ships with a displacement of up to 5000 tons and replace the P-15 Termit missile.


Base Options:

aviation - for aircraft Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29, Su-35S, TU-142 and helicopters Ka-27, Ka-28, Ka-52K
missile system "Uranus" (SS-N-25 Switchblade) - ship
missile system 3K60 "Ball" (SSC-6 Sennight) - coastal.

https://vpk.name/library/f/x-35.html

[ancient]

Quote: Kalmar

..to launch two X-35 missiles

Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's?

[Kalmar]

Quote: ancient

Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's?

In general, I exaggerated it. Well, there was a note https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili, where it seemed like they mentioned that the X-35s were planning to spend on the Su-24 . In theory, nothing prevents it from being done. Which, however, does not affect the general alignment of forces in any way)

[ancient]

Quote: Kalmar

In general, I exaggerated it.

Clear ... then the media is in .. "quotes".

Quote: Kalmar

https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili,

Izvestia ... they are like that .... "can ... truncated"

Quote: Kalmar

that the X-35s are planning to spend the Su-24.

Too many "changes" need to be made to the LMS. (that's why we stopped with the X-31).

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Kalmar

where it’s kind of mentioned that the X-35s are planning to loot to the Su-24. In theory, nothing prevents it

fundamentally - nothing interferes, in fact - the means. There are and will not be any other missiles on the Su-24, except for those that are carrying now. To integrate a missile into the aircraft’s weapons system is not to hang it on ACU locks ... avionics need to be further developed

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: ancient

Quote: Kalmar

..to launch two X-35 missiles

Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's?

And you do not know?

On the basis of the Kh-35, in addition to the Uran ship complex, the Bal coastal anti-ship complex, as well as the aircraft version (two modifications: for the Kh-35U aircraft and the Kh-35V helicopters) were created. The helicopter version of the rocket can be used from helicopters of the Ka-27 and Ka-28 type, the aircraft version from the MiG-29K, MiG-29SMT, Su-30MK, Su-35, Yak-141 fighters, a front-line bomber of the Su-24M type, anti-submarine aircraft Tu -142M and other carriers.

http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/uran/uran.shtml

[ancient]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

And you do not know?

"Murzilka" (at the expense of the Su-24M).

[NN52]

Sky Strike fighter (Maxim)
Ancient and never been in the "course" ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

On the basis of the Kh-35, in addition to the Uran ship complex, the Bal coastal anti-ship complex, as well as the aircraft version (two modifications: for the Kh-35U aircraft and the Kh-35V helicopters) were created. The helicopter version of the rocket can be used from helicopters of the Ka-27 and Ka-28 type, the aircraft version from the MiG-29K, MiG-29SMT, Su-30MK, Su-35, Yak-141 fighters, a front-line bomber of the Su-24M type, anti-submarine aircraft Tu -142M and other carriers.

about ..))) Yak-141 is mentioned))) This is what hairy year information? Apparently, from the area of ​​Wishlist. Are you aware that not all Wishlist are being implemented?

Can I see at least one Su-24 photo with X-35 missiles?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: ancient

Quote: Kalmar

..to launch two X-35 missiles

Su-24M has already become the carrier of the X-35's?

Here is another confirmation.

The Kh-35U missile has a mass of 550 kg. Of these, 145 kg falls on the warhead. Flight speed - 300 m / s. Range of application - 260 km. Currently, the Kh-35U carriers are several series of surface ships of the missile boat / corvette class, Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 and anti-submarine Tu-142 aircraft, as well as Ka helicopters -27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K. The missile is used as part of the Bal coastal missile system.

https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili

[Charik]

Confirmation when the video will be, well, or the shooter himself will say then I believe it, but in the newspaper they will order it and print it like any gossmi.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Charik

Confirmation when the video will be, well, or the shooter himself will say then I believe it, but in the newspaper they will order it and print it like any gossmi.

Testing the impact on surface targets in the Baltic Fleet Su-24 and Su-30SM. Video.
https://news.rambler.ru/army/44094093-otrabotka-udarov-aviatsiey-po-nadvodnym-tselyam-popala-na-video/

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Kalmar

... which the destroyer will bring down without any problems.

I wonder why you decided this ?? !! and even with a non-relaxed crew !!!

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Winnie76

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything, and then get closer under the radio horizon

At least before writing this, you would be interested in the capabilities of the radar installed on the Su-24.

[Winnie76]

Quote: zyablik.olga

At least before writing this, you would be interested in the capabilities of the radar installed on the Su-24.

I took an interest. I didn’t find anything.

[Avior]

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400

can. but...

The main armament of the aircraft was the PNS-24 "Puma-A" sighting and navigation system. It consisted of: forward-looking radar (RPO) "Orion-A" with a detection range of a typical object of 150 km.

[Charik]

Turned on the radar and everything is already on sight

[Winnie76]

Quote: Avior

RPO) "Orion-A" with a detection range of a typical object of 150 km.

And what is a typical object? This time. And two, as far as I know, PNS-24 is an outdated system of several subsystems that have modernized

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Winnie76

And two, as far as I know PNS-24 is an outdated system of several subsystems that have upgraded

Yeah. An advanced sighting and navigation system PNS-24M Tiger was installed on the Su-24M, but the problem was that the search radar remained the same, Orion-A, with an instrumental range of about 150 km

[Fan-fan]

Here is a description of real military events, I found on the Internet a diagram of a successful attack by the Argentine Air Force on the British destroyer Sheffield:
At 10:35 am, an Argentine Neptune-class reconnaissance aircraft climbed to an altitude of 1170 meters and determined the coordinates of the corresponding target. A few minutes later, he reported the findings to the pilots of two SuperEstandar aircraft.
Moving at a very low altitude, in the region of 10:50 hours, they rose to a level of 160 m to check the coordinates indicated by Neptune and did not find anything. The pilots turned around and decided to continue the search. After 45 km, they climbed again and after a few seconds of scanning, the desired target appeared on the screens of their radars. The process of hitting a ship with an AM.39 rocket (Exoset) consists of two stages: first, the rocket is controlled by a special aircraft system that sets the coordinates of the target and transfers them to the rocket, i.e. loading coordinates into the on-board weapon systems, then the second stage - the radar itself rockets.
I note that luck is largely due to the fact that the radar was turned off on the destroyer just at that time, since it created interference with radio communications with London. One missile hit the target, the second missed.

[Brylevsky]

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything,

And "light up" yourself?

[Ingenegr]

"Gorki" for 300-400 km, the Su-24 can at least manage to run out of fuel. Only now the instrumental range of the radar is less than 200 km. What to do with this?

[ancient]

Quote: Ingenegr

"Gorki" for 300-400 km, the Su-24 can at least manage to get rid of the fuel.

Yah? .. and on the destroyer at this time "sleep like a dead sleep" and "Aegis" (generally blinded).
And yes ... well, if before the fuel is completely depleted ... then this is ... kamikaze ... the hill must be done in front of the target ... but you can do so ... at an altitude of 20-30 meters .. "enter"

[Charik]

What to see from Su24 for 300 km?

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything

"what" on the Su-24 are you going to do ..... "look ... the sea of ​​okians and ... see your goal there"? (we are still silent about target identification ")?

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

You can make a hill of kilometers for 300-400, consider everything

And at what height are you going to make a .. "slide" (after all, you need to see the target) or do you think that ship radars have a dependence of target detection from beyond the horizon, but aircraft radars do not have such restrictions on target detection range?

[Serg4545]

// And at what height are you going to make a .. "hill" (after all, you need to see the target as well) or do you think that ship radars have a dependence on target detection from beyond the horizon, but airborne radars do not have such restrictions on target detection range ? //

Well for starters.
If the aircraft comes with anti-ship missiles, then preliminary data on the ship’s whereabouts have already been received. Or do you think that Drying will carry RCC on itself just like that?
When Sushka arrives in the right area, she makes a slide:
For example, from an initial height of 200 meters, she bounces at 1500 meters. Turns on the radar for a couple of seconds at this altitude. Then he dives again to a height of 200 meters.
Perhaps Aegis will be the first to spot Sushka (even most likely). But this will not give him anything. For any complex has a reaction time. And while Drying will be above the radio horizon (10-15 seconds) Aegis will not even have time to launch a rocket. Drying dived under the horizon and again became invisible to Aegis.
It is enough for drying periodically (say every 70 km) to make a slide, combing the area in search of a ship. Aegis may even notice a plane every time, but she will not be able to do anything. But Sushka will sooner or later find the ship. She can even after finding the ship, make another slide to more accurately identify the target. Then again go under the horizon, upload the flight mission to the RCC. Launch RCC. You can fly home.
And in general, in the confrontation of any single ship and more or less modern aircraft with anti-ship missiles, the aircraft has a huge handicap! Aircraft with a certain tactic, is almost invulnerable. But RCC (even single) always has a chance to reach the goal.

[ancient]

Quote: Serg4545

Well for starters.
If the aircraft comes with anti-ship missiles, then preliminary data on the ship’s whereabouts have already been received. Or do you think that Drying will carry RCC on itself just like that?

Naturally, there was also target reconnaissance and additional reconnaissance, but ........ "steamer" is not .. "tied in place" ... or what?

Quote: Serg4545

For example, from an initial height of 200 meters, she bounces at 1500 meters. Turns on the radar for a couple of seconds at this altitude. Then he dives again to a height of 200 meters.

Well, let's start as you say .. "from the beginning" .. in the first place, the RPO is turned on from the ground and the antenna is placed on the "Equivalent" ... this is for a rocket with an AGSN, and for T-ones you only need an LTPS and an included APK-9 container.
To "survey" the space and find the target .. "somewhere in the area" ..... this event cannot be completed in a few seconds.

Quote: Serg4545

It is enough for drying periodically (say every 70 km) to make a slide, combing the area in search of a ship.

About such "concepts" as the range, duration and tactical radius of action depending on the weight of the B / C and refueling as well as the mode and profile of the flight ... have you heard?
All the rest of your "written" I leave without comment

[Serg4545]

// Naturally, there was also target reconnaissance and additional reconnaissance, but ........ "ship" is not .. "tied in place" ... or what? //

If the steamer were tied, then according to it, for a stationary purpose, they would work out some sort of long-range Caliber. But since he was not attached, I had to drive Dry, for additional exploration and launching missiles from close range.

// To "survey" the space and find a target .. "somewhere in the area" ..... this event cannot be completed in a few seconds //

View as much surface as the allotted time allows.
Repeat the operation until a result is obtained.

// About such "concepts" as the range, duration and tactical radius of action depending on the weight of the aircraft and refueling, as well as the mode and flight profile ... have you heard? //

Yes, I heard.
And I think that the purchase of almost complete invulnerability due to a couple of additional hanging tanks is a drop dead bargain.

// All the rest of your "written" I leave without comment //

That is, agree?

[ancient]

Quote: Serg4545

and launching missiles from close range.

Which RCC specifically?

Quote: Serg4545

View as much surface as the allotted time allows.
Repeat the operation until a result is obtained.

Understood, that is. never in my life worked with a radar and did not "find" and highlight an identified target in the face of opposition from the enemy's RES ... and even without it (suppose that on the "steamer" everyone is asleep

Quote: Serg4545

Yes, I heard.
And I think that the purchase of almost complete invulnerability due to a couple of additional hanging tanks is a drop dead bargain.

And where are you going to hang RCCs ..... on the 1st and 6th rotary suspension units? There you can only X-25ML, and PTB at 2 and 5 nodes, well, or as an option 1-X-29L and two PTB.
And with PTB, the tactical radius of course increases, but not so ... what would .. "ah"
And the destroyer in the threatened period will never come to the coast of the enemy at such a range.
So the "drop dead" of your proposed deal .... "flies past like ..... plywood"

Quote: Serg4545

That is, agree?

Most likely not ... especially the criteria you have proposed - "any ship is a more or less modern aircraft"!

[_Ugene_]

if it goes all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m above the sea, then without the support of Avax, it may reach the missile launch range, but how will he capture the target under the radio horizon? ship radar is much more powerful and modern, there is no equal confrontation

[Winnie76]

Quote: _Ugene_

there is no equal confrontation

Drying has its trump cards. As we have already found out, it can hide from the radar at the very small point, can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle, and can avoid a collision. Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it. Rather on them

[Bongo]

Quote: Winnie76

Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it.

It’s even impossible to comment Why wasn't the Su-24M equipped with Mosquitoes? Have you thought about it?

[Winnie76]

Quote: Bongo

It’s impossible to even comment on this. Why wasn’t the Su-24M equipped with Mosquitoes, did you not think about it?

Apparently the problem is in mass and size. And nevertheless. As far as I know, there is an aircraft Bramos, which hangs on the Su-30. Why can not castrated Onyx hang on the Su-24

[novel66]

I’m embarrassed to ask, but will the caliber for Drying rise? Sergey, the kindest

[Bongo]

Quote: novel xnumx

Sergey, the kindest

Roman, good evening! (I have already evening). I’m watching a warm company gather today!

Quote: novel xnumx

and the caliber on the drying stand?

Of course not.
Some time ago, a Su-24 was published at the VO, the consultant of which was the ancient one present here (Sergey). All questions can be asked him directly.

Service and combat use of the Su-24

https://topwar.ru/84850-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-frontovogo-bombardirovschika-su-24-chast-1-ya.html

https://topwar.ru/84921-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-frontovogo-bombardirovschika-su-24-chast-2-ya.html

[ancient]

Quote: Bongo

It’s even impossible to comment

Quote: Bongo

Why wasn't the Su-24M equipped with Mosquitoes?

Even with the X-31 did not finish ... unfortunately

[Bongo]

Sergey, hello! Haven't crossed paths with you for a long time! Olya said that you are with us again, but all the time I didn’t have a good look at VO. Nobody knows about the Su-24 better than you on the VO. Although even you "uryalkami" can not explain anything.

[ancient]

Quote: Bongo

It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

Hello hello DEAR !!!
So you are all about ... "hunting and fishing" ... the more it is easier for you there .... "self-isolate" ... but a bear or a tiger ... does not check for masks

[Bongo]

Quote: ancient

Quote: Bongo

It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

Hello hello DEAR !!!
So you are all about ... "hunting and fishing" ... the more it is easier for you there .... "self-isolate" ... but a bear or a tiger ... does not check for masks

For the tiger, we have the northern boundary of the range, and it is very rare. But there were too many bears and now it’s better not to meet them. After a harsh punishment was introduced in the PRC for smuggling bear bile and bear’s paws, they almost deliberately stopped beating. And in food without checking, bear meat is fraught with mention, trichinosis is an extremely unpleasant thing. However, we are not bored in the Far East ...

I took this picture in the morning on the way to duty a couple of days ago.

[ancient]

Quote: Bongo

I took this picture in the morning on the way to duty a couple of days ago.

Yes, my wife and I watch TV and ... just goof off of your weather Tough

[Bongo]

Quote: ancient

Yes, my wife and I watch TV and ... just go nuts on your weather belay

But fun ... In vain, you at one time refused a post at KnAAZ, could have admired our hills from the Su-17UM3 cockpit. By the way, the remaining pair of Su-17UM3 at the plant was finally put to joke, for several years now they have not been lifted into the air, but they are not disposed of.

[ancient]

Quote: Bongo

In vain you at one time resigned from a job at KnAAZ,

She, as it turned out, was not in vain .... I love the sun (although it is contraindicated to me now)

[NN52]

Bongo (Sergey)

Do not this person, ranked as a flight crew ..
Read it, Sergey ..

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Bongo

Quote: ancient

It’s been a long time since I crossed paths with you!

Gentlemen, develop doubts, I already asked.

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Quote: ancient

..on such a question

You are not a sinner to enlighten about the accident of the Su-17, when it had torn off the rotary parts of the wing during a salvo from UPK-23?

Was there such a precedent?

[Brylevsky]

she can hide from the radar on the extremely small

Yes, if the height of the wave in the sea allows, that is, the weather. But the sea is far from always calm and fresh weather can cause the pilot to rise higher ...

can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle, can evade a collision.

The safest thing for an airplane is to attack the ship without entering its air defense coverage area. Otherwise, the anti-aircraft gunners will take him on the sight. So what's with the range of the Su-24 locator?

[Winnie76]

Quote: Brylevsky

But the sea is far from always calm and fresh weather can cause the pilot to rise higher ...

50 meters will suit you?

Quote: Brylevsky

The safest thing for an airplane is to attack the ship without entering its air defense coverage area.

I will not argue

Quote: Brylevsky

. So what's with the range of the Su-24 locator?

I have no idea. Only here the ESR of the ship is a multiple of the ESR of the aircraft, as well as the power of the radar. And besides, the plane has the ability to hide from the radar in the open sea, dropping lower, and the ship is not

[Brylevsky]

50 meters will suit you?

My friend, there everything will be solved by simple mathematics. I figured, I got that at an altitude of 50 m, the plane will be detected by the ship at a distance of about 45 km. So, theoretically, in a duel situation, the Su-24 has a chance to attack. Moreover, in the absence of "third forces" such as AWACS, etc., he even has a chance to safely exit this attack ... I took the radar antenna height of the destroyer as 15 m, I don't know how different it is from reality .. I measured it with a compass on the picture

[Charik]

yes? and what is the minimum missile launch? and 50 meters will not help

[Brylevsky]

yes? and what is the minimum missile launch?

Generally not in the know. You know?

[ancient]

Quote: Brylevsky

Generally not in the know.

Of those in service and, if possible, used .... 200 meters true ... but 300 is better (rocket subsidence ... it’s like that ... maybe the engine will start later)

[Charik]

here I’m talking about whether the rocket will turn into a torpedo

[ancient]

Quote: Brylevsky

I calculated, it turned out that at a flight altitude of 50 m, the aircraft will be detected by the ship at a distance of about 45 km.

The height of the radar antennas forgot to take into account D = 41,433.

Quote: Brylevsky

So, theoretically, in a duel situation, the Su-24 has a chance to attack

And .. what are you going to "attack" with ... what kind of TSA?

Quote: Brylevsky

he even has a chance to get out of this attack safely ..

0,0%

[Brylevsky]

The height of the radar antennas was forgotten to take into account wink D = 41,433. drinks

No, I didn’t forget. I took the antenna installation height to 15 meters, with this installation height and a flight height of 50 m, the detection range is 45.1 km.

[ancient]

Quote: Brylevsky

a flight altitude of 50 m, the detection range is 45.1 km.

Well so be it ... ... everyone has their own ... "arithmetic"

[Brylevsky]

each has its own ... "arithmetic" wink

actually math is the same for everyone Here is a link to an online calculator I counted there. https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/ru-RU/calculator/radar-horizon/, so no secrets ... Now I read in Wikipedia that AN / SPY-1 has a low-flying target detection range up to 80 km. You seem to be related to aviation? Then what do you think: is there a chance for the Su-24 to carry out a missile attack and still survive?

[ancient]

Quote: Brylevsky

Then, in your opinion: is there a chance for the Su-24 to launch a missile attack and survive?

There are always chances ... but in this case .. very, very ... "scanty"
Well, if he is anchored or at the bank ... then the probability increases significantly.

Quote: Brylevsky

Now I read in Wikipedia that the AN / SPY-1 has a low-flying target detection range of up to 80 km

Not the most "reliable source".
Low-altitude targets are "engaged" by AN / SPG-62 and AN / SPQ-9A / B:
1. AN / SPG-62 radar operates in the X band (8-10 GHz), has a reflector diameter of 2,3 m, a peak transmitter power of 10 kW, and a range of 110 km. It performs the function of continuous illumination of the target at the final guidance site of the anti-missile defense SM-2 and SM-3 and thereby unloads the main radar SPY-1. It can be used as a review. On cruisers they put 4, on destroyers 3.
2. The multi-purpose AN / SPQ-9 shipborne gunsighting and control radar also operates in the X band (6-10 GHz), its peak power is 1,2 kW, rotation speed 30 rpm, range up to 37 km, maximum height - 6 km They say that a very good radar is resistant to interference from waves, rain and landscape in the coastal zone. Designed specifically for work on high-speed low-flying small-sized targets.

[Brylevsky]

Thank you for the detailed answer!

Not the most "reliable source". wassat

For not having a better

[Charik]

X35u, some were hung on the Su24, well, yes they write at least 200m in height, and here someone, in my opinion, wants to start up with a 50m -type so that the ship- the plane does not see

[bk316]

Quote: Brylevsky
he even has a chance to get out of this attack safely ..

0,0% soldier

Since I don’t understand a damn thing, in anti-ship missiles, but for some reason very much even in software for air defense systems
then I have VERY big doubts that when attacking a dozen su-24s with simultaneous launching of burke missiles, the carriers will ATTACK AT ALL. I can argue that the BIUS will prioritize the PCR and not the media, and not one SR each. Dryers quietly unfold and leave. And if at least one anti-ship missile hits the target, then forget about TTX berke. The modern destroyer is not a battleship; its combat stability depends entirely on the antenna economy - and this is cardboard for any missile.

Actually the same problem is facing modern air defense systems. While this is being solved by creating an echeloned system, in order to destroy systems of large radius, one must first suppress the medium and small, and they are covered by the systems of the large. And the radar posts are separated by kilometers. Burke has none of this. Therefore, in the composition of the AUG, the berks are good, but in solitary swimming they are simply goals. Yes, the Americans themselves understand this. You doubt it, look at how the air defense of the AUG is arranged, this is really a problem.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Brylevsky

that at a flight altitude of 50 m, the aircraft will be detected by the ship at a distance of about 45 km

These destroyers, in addition to supporting AWACS and a bunch of other sources of information, also have a helicopter with a radar, a powerful electronic warfare that allows you to move the ship another km for the eyes and brains of the Su24 radar, if suddenly the war is not in reality, but in some then Narnia, where the destroyers lost in the ocean will go unaccompanied by a dozen similar to them and with Avik, and in splendid isolation, to be more honest against Sushka.

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

50 meters will suit you?

At what range does your radar "see" with such an H?
Have you flown a lot and for a long time on PRMV on the Su-24?

Quote: Winnie76

And besides, the plane has the ability to hide from the radar in the open sea, dropping lower, and the ship is not

The destroyer's radar will detect you on Dobn. about 40 km and air defense systems will make you a "steak"

[Cympak]

For each TSA, avionics needs to be reprogrammed, and then tested. Also, given the age of the Su-24M, I will assume that it has an analog system :(
In general, they are unlikely to bother and register new weapons on the Su-24M

[ancient]

Quote: Cympak

Also, given the age of the Su-24M, I will assume that it has an analog system

Not really ... the analogue interface ... this is true ... but. An airplane in the control system (BCVS) includes a pairing device (DC) (in the form of an autonomous unit) that interacts with the central computing device (CVU) of the BCVM via a digital channel, or integrated with a digital computer through an input-output device (I / O).

Quote: Cympak

In general, they are unlikely to bother and register new weapons on the Su-24M

Absolutely true assumption

[Charik]

How many Zircons or Onyxes hang on Su24-Hindus like Brahmos one hang on the 30s

[My doctor]

Quote: Winnie76

can impose a battle at the right time and from a convenient angle,

laughing out loud

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

As we already found out, she can hide from the radar on the extremely small,

You so .. "smoothly" moved off the Su-24M ... on the .. "all-encompassing" "Sushki" (right ... the business of the drowning - the business of the drowning themselves).
What do you have .... tanks of dimensionless silt or tankers fly with you .... okay ... and will you refuel the same .. on PMV?

Quote: Winnie76

Provided that the drying equipment is equipped with Onyxes, and even more so with Zircons, I will put it on it

This is from the series ... if grandma had ... "one item" .. she would be .. "grandfather"

[Winnie76]

Quote: ancient

You so .. "smoothly" moved off the Su-24M ... on the .. "all-encompassing" "Drying" (right ... the case of the drowning is the business of the drowning themselves).

OK. Convinced. The old Su-24 is not shining against the new Burke. And modernization is most likely impractical.

Quote: ancient

This is from the series ... if grandma had ... "one item" .. she would be .. "grandfather"

It turns out there is no subject for conversation. The Poles are infinitely right. Our pilots with their overflights are just a good mine in a bad game. And the Indians generally loshara with their Bramos-A

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

OK. Convinced. Old Su-24 does not shine versus the new Burke

It pleases, but ... about .. "nothing shines" ... what if ... a case turns up .. history knows examples)
Why upgrade if you already have a Su-34 ?.

Quote: Winnie76

Our pilots with their overflights are just a good mine in a bad game.

But why... ? Have you noticed that overflights are carried out on the Su-24MR ... you think .. "just like that" ... to try?
For the rest I don't understand at all ... "why the Indians .. ?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: _Ugene_

if it goes all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m above the sea, then without the support of Avax, it may reach the missile launch range, but how will he capture the target under the radio horizon? ship radar is much more powerful and modern, there is no equal confrontation

The missile will lock itself on the target. It uses the fire-and-forget principle.

Most of the way the X-35 flies at an altitude of 4-15 m (depending on the unrest at sea). This makes it difficult to detect with radar and intercept anti-ballistic missiles. Approaching the target, the X-35 makes a jump and attacks, leaving the peak. The speed of the subsonic rocket is Mach 0,8–0,85. X-35 can be used in almost any weather conditions and in a storm of up to 6 points.
High accuracy and noise immunity of the rocket are ensured through the use of the active-passive radar homing head (GOS) ARGS-35 developed by NPP Radar-MMS (St. Petersburg). It captures the target at a range of 20-50 km.
“The homing head eliminates the use of radar stations. The missile independently moves toward the target and carries out the necessary maneuvers. The accuracy of the defeat is several meters. True, the GOS captures the target in the final phase of the flight, and after launch the rocket uses an inertial control system and satellite navigation means, ”Knutov said.

https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/622075-raketa-h-35-boevye-vozmozhnosti

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The missile will lock itself on the target. It uses the fire-and-forget principle.

A target designation missile is not needed, and she herself determines the position of the target in space? It is clear that the X-35 PRR is induced by radar radiation, but this is not RCC.

[Sky strike fighter]

that the X-35 PRP is aimed at radar radiation, but this is not RCC.

The X-35U never had a PRR. It was originally RCC. Have you read at least the quote I quoted above? Everything is written about the guidance system.

A target designation missile is not needed, and she herself determines the position of the target in space?

At first, it flies like a usual KR to a given point by satellite guidance, and then it itself captures the target of its ARGSN. Radar Su-24M is not needed here. Information about the position of the destroyer can be transmitted through the exchange of information with other units of a single information system of target designation by the same satellites.

[novel66]

and if the goal is nimble?

[bars1]

Sky Strike fighter X-35U is equipped with an active-passive seeker.

[ancient]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

At first, it flies like a normal CR to a given point by satellite guidance,

And who transmitted the coordinates of the target (initial) ... scout Vasya ?

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The Su-24M radar is not needed here.

Killed .... completely
So why would anyone need to fly somewhere ... "shoot" straight from the parking lot and the rocket ... "will fly where it is needed"
And there are no X-35 missiles on the Su-24M ... NO !!!

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Information about the position of the destroyer can be transmitted through the exchange of information with other units of a unified target designation information system by the same satellites.

I already wrote to you about Professor Preobrazhensky .... well, no need to read .... "fairy tales" for the night

[Brylevsky]

The missile will lock itself on the target. It uses the fire-and-forget principle.

Yes, but first the pilot of the plane must find the target. The maximum firing range of the "X-35" is 50 km. That is, the Su-24 will have to approach the American ship at D <= 50 km ... Could you tell me the height of the AGES antennas in the ship's superstructure? Then it will be easy to calculate what will come first: either the SU-24 will reach the line of the missile attack, or the American ship will discover (and destroy) it earlier.

[Avior]

it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station, which will determine the operation of the airborne radar much earlier

[Brylevsky]

it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station, which will determine the operation of the airborne radar much earlier

Where is she in this diagram?

[Avior]

the picture is old, it’s a destroyer of the 90s, and not everything is indicated there
Now the REP station is planned to be finalized to version AN / SLQ - 32 (V) 5 with the expanded RTR reconnaissance station AN / SSX - 1. Antennas 13 are the PARs of the antenna of the reb station.
But even if this particular one has not been finalized yet, the low-flying aircraft will detect AN / SPS-67- number ten in the picture.

AN / SPS-67 - American two-coordinate ship survey and navigation radar. Provides detection and tracking of surface and low-flying targets.

according to her data, you can’t shoot, she gives time to go into combat readiness.

[Brylevsky]

the picture is old, it’s a destroyer of the 90s, and not everything is indicated there

It is possible, yes.
Listen, buddy: I ​​open Wikipedia, I look at the parameters of the AN / SPY-1 radar, I read: "80 km (low-flying targets)" ... How low-flying? Does this mean that the Su-24 has no chance of a successful attack?

[Avior]

low-flying - 200 meters and below
minimum launch height X-35 - 200 meters

Conditions for launching an aircraft version carrier flight altitude - 0,2-10 km
carrier flight speed - 0,35-0,9 M

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-852.html
the radio visibility formula is simple - D = 4,11 * (√ Hls + √ H targets) - the square root of the radar height add the root of the target’s height in meters, multiply by 4,11 — you get the range in kilometers.
Aegis antenna height 20 m, launch height x-35 200 m, we get a range
D=4,11*(√20+√200)=4,11*(4.5+14.5)=4.11*19=80 км
but all this is an empty argument
for x-35 and more, the range may be, but a couple of missiles from one aircraft EW ship will lead away without major problems, this is repeatedly tested in real conditions
daddy can only happen by chance, like in Sheffield, only now the reb stations work automatically
a separate topic, no less important is target designation
if you shoot without a full knowledge of the situation, the missiles will easily go into some passing boat
satellites provide information for reconnaissance in the capital, and not on a ship or fleet.
and their possibilities are greatly exaggerated

[Brylevsky]

it’s more correct to count from the top of the mast of the destroyer - there is an antenna of the RTR station,

Judging by the scheme, on the top of the mast is an antenna of a tactical navigation complex. But this is not electronic intelligence ... TACAN is designed for completely different purposes.

[Avior]

I can’t find you immediately
all these pictures are greatly simplified, there are not many, only the main one is indicated
this is the mast of the destroyer Oscar Austin, DDG-79 that you have in the picture, also in the old photo

Pay attention to how many antennas and antennas there are that you do not have on the diagram.
I cannot say for sure where the RTR antenna is connected there, but I admit that this is the third "lampshade" from the top around the mast with a clearly circular diagram, although, I repeat, I may be wrong.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Brylevsky

The missile will lock itself on the target. It uses the fire-and-forget principle.

Yes, but first the pilot of the plane must find the target. The maximum firing range of the "X-35" is 50 km. That is, the Su-24 will have to approach the American ship at D <= 50 km ... Could you tell me the height of the AGES antennas in the ship's superstructure? Then it will be easy to calculate what will come first: either the SU-24 will reach the line of the missile attack, or the American ship will discover (and destroy) it earlier.

The maximum firing range of the X-35U is from 260 to 300 km. 50 km from the target, the X-35U active-passive RGSN captures the target. Before that it flies by inertial to the targeting point.

[Brylevsky]

The maximum firing range of the X-35U is from 260 to 300 km. 50 km from the target, the X-35U active-passive RGSN captures the target. Before that it flies by inertial to the targeting point.

Thanks for the alignment, I will know

[Charik]

for the time that X35-2 is flying, let's say they shot from 200km, will the ship leave the detection area of ​​the pcr? or will it notice a rocket? Can this happen?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Charik

for the time that X35-2 is flying, let's say they shot from 200km, will the ship leave the detection area of ​​the pcr? or will it notice a rocket? Can this happen?

The missile will overcome 150 km in 10 minutes, 50 km to the target
the target will capture its APRGSN. How much can a ship depart at 10 knots in about 35 minutes (about 60 km / h)? At 10 km, and the target will be captured by its APRGSN rocket from 50 km to the ship. Will not leave.

or notice a rocket? Could this happen?

If we get lucky.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

and the target will capture a missile from its 50 km to the ship with its APRGSN

Everywhere TTX X-35U 260km range, GOS starts to work from 20 km, and not 50.

[Sky strike fighter]

[quote = Alexander Mosin] [quote = Sky Strike fighter] and the target will be captured by its APRGSN missile from 50 km to the ship [/ quote]
Everywhere TTX X-35U 260km range, GOS starts working from 20 km, not 50. [/ quote]

On the X-35UE, the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced by an active-passive radar seeker of the Gran-K type. Target detection (capture) range increased to 50 km.
[/ Quote]

[quote = Sky Strike fighter] [quote = _Ugene _] [quote] it’s really possible to attack using an external command center [/ quote] so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external control center, then let's and we add avaks, and then drying has no chance [/ quote]
Come on, but there are not so many AWACS, but on condition of one on one - that is, the destroyer against the Su-24M with the X-35U, the latter has a satellite guidance system.
[quote] In 2009, a modernized version of the Kh-35U missile, called the Kh-35UE, was presented, intended for delivery to foreign customers. After all the modifications, the starting weight of the rocket reached 670 kg. Dimensions remained at the same level. The engine and fuel tank taken from the Kh-35U provide the new anti-ship missile with a range of up to 260 km. According to some reports, a launch at a range of up to 300 km is possible. The most important innovation of the project was the updating of guidance systems. The inertial navigation system was supplemented by satellite, and the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced by the active-passive radar seeker of the Gran-K type. Target detection range increased to 50 km. [/ Quote]
https://topwar.ru/76289-protivokorabelnaya-raketa-h-35.html[/quote]

[Alexander mosin]

Thanks for the info. But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? Indeed, hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses are often discussed. The question is still, if the GOS can carry out a capture from 50 km, then how will she see at 50 km, for the horizon, or the approximate flight height of 100-200 m allows this?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

Thanks for the info. But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? Indeed, hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses are often discussed. The question is still, if the GOS can carry out a capture from 50 km, then how will she see at 50 km, for the horizon, or the approximate flight height of 100-200 m allows this?

The flight altitude is 10-15 meters on the marching section and 3-4 on reaching the target.

X-35UE - export version of the X-35U - unified. In 2009, a significantly revised modification of the X-35 missile was introduced, which received the designation X-35UE. A new turbofan engine, half the size, was used, the design of the air channel was changed, which allowed to increase the fuel supply. These measures led to a twofold increase in the maximum range of rocket firing - up to 260 km. A new combined guidance system was used in the rocket, which, in addition to the previously used inertial and active radar homing systems, also included satellite navigation. The upgraded active-passive radar homing head "Gran-K" allows you to capture targets at a distance of 50 km, against 20 km from the basic version. Status (as of August 17, 2011): is being tested. The turning range reached 130 °. It has a ship, helicopter, coast and aircraft based. The flight altitude is 10-15 meters on the marching section and 3-4 on reaching the target. The mass of the warhead is 145 kg.

http://авиару.рф/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhenie/aviatsionnoe-vooruzhenie/sssr/aviatsionnye-rakety/upravlyaemye-rakety/ur-vozduh-poverhnost/protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-35/

[Sky strike fighter]

But how much is the new GOS already integrated, tested in the troops? After all, often discuss hypothetical clashes between systems that either are not in the troops or have serious childhood illnesses

In Syria, the X-35U was tested from the Su-34 on ground targets. Successfully.

[Cyril G ...]

The height of the PAR Berk is about 17 meters, the radio horizon is 32-33 km.

[Brylevsky]

The height of the PAR Berk is about 17 meters, the radio horizon is 32-33 km.

Thank you, colleague! I'm a compass on the scale of the circuit measured, I also happened somewhere somewhere ...

[Charik]

and the launch minimal, will not stick into the water? and where is the X35 on the Su24?

[ancient]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The rocket itself will capture the target.

Oh how ....... the rocket itself will find everything (somewhere) and somehow .... or all the same, the rocket must be given TsU initially?

[_Ugene_]

or all the same, the rocket must be given the original TS

So from Avax go the coordinates of the target in real time

[ancient]

Quote: _Ugene_

So from Avax go the coordinates of the target in real time

Where do these coordinates go ... (Su-24M?) Which .. "system"

[_Ugene_]

I don’t know what kind of "system", can you tell me? Or, according to you, the coordinates of the target from the avax are useless for the burk? They will know exactly where the drying is in kao.

[ancient]

Quote: _Ugene_

Or do you think the coordinates of the goal from Avax are useless for the burke?

Sorry, I probably did not understand you and thought that you were talking about our A-50U and Su-24M

[ancient]

Quote: _Ugene_

if it will be all the time at an altitude of 20-30 m.

If you fly at such an altitude, then the destroyer should be no further than 200 km from the coast (and why the hell should he approach such a range? ) ...... otherwise .. "there is nothing" will be ... home .. "to get"

[Alexander mosin]

You, as a person with experience, can already say for sure that the X-35U GOS makes a capture for 50km or 20km? Some people write here 50km, and I see 20km everywhere in the TTX tables? Nevertheless, the difference is significant.

[Charik]

yes? and we have a lot of such aces at such heights to pilot loaded

[Normal ok]

Quote: Winnie76

Quote: _Ugene_

ship's air defense sees him from far away

Under the radio horizon?

You forgot about AWACS and satellites. The destroyer constantly receives environmental information from external monitoring tools.

[_Ugene_]

Well, let's say there are not so many AWACS and far from always they accompany all ships, the satellite can help, provided that the airfields are known in advance and will track the drying from the moment of take-off, but then you need to add coastal infrastructure to this task, and this immediately changes everything
If we consider a spherical horse in a vacuum, i.e. a single arly burke in the open sea without support against a single Su-24, then theoretically drying will be able to approach the launch distance at low altitudes, but it will certainly be destroyed

[Cyril G ...]

Why on earth is it destroyed?

[Charik]

with the article SM2 + Aegis (radar type 1l13 or 55zh6)

[Cyril G ...]

To do this, your AWACS should be no further than 400 km from the line of attack. But to get information and be able to at least do something is still a big difference ...

[_Ugene_]

But to get information and be able to at least do something is still a big difference ...

in this case, it is a guaranteed defeat of drying, air defense can send missiles to the external Avax command center without seeing the target, on the approach of the GOS missile itself will find drying

[Cyril G ...]

Can not. Why - explained.

[ancient]

Quote: Winnie76

Under the radio horizon?

And what anti-ship missiles are you planning to launch with the Su-24 and at what range?
After all, in order to launch a rocket with an AGSN carrier radar, the same should take the target at the AS
And at what range is this possible and at what altitude?
And what is the response time of the ship’s air defense systems?

[Charik]

Yes, they shoot X35mi with Su24 or 24M from 50 km. Yes, and when the radar is on, the plane is already in the sight on the NK radar. And after 10 seconds 2-SM2 flies into the plane.

[Cyril G ...]

- The usual X-35 flies 130 km, distant up to 270 km.
- X-31A flies at 50-70 km, at a speed of up to 1 km / s. 50 km = 50 seconds. but the missile from the destroyer SM-6 (SM-2 flies slower) will fly on the same 50 km for 45 seconds. You’d at least watch Vicki.

[Charik]

Oh, they made a mistake - they were going to shoot the X35 from a height of 50m, so that the ship would not see the plane, there was no question about X31, the SM2 rocket speed was about M = 3 The maximum range was up to 166,7 km, at least with 1000 km X35-2 let them will be shot down, if their pieces 20-30 shoot then it’s still possible to break through the Cook's air defense and there xs.

[Cyril G ...]

In general, if the destroyer is single, then the unit and even the Su-24 squadron can calmly approach a distance of 40-60 km below the radio horizon and launch anti-ship missiles in an amount sufficient to defeat it. To destroy a low-flying target within the range of launching missiles at a range of up to 250 km, a destroyer can only interact with the avionics F-35 using Link 16.

[_Ugene_]

being below the radio horizon and let go RCC in an amount sufficient to defeat it

where to let RCC if the ship does not see the drying, in white light? they are lower than the radio horizon, the target needs to be captured by radar or visually detected, for this you will have to rise and immediately get under the ship’s air defense

[Cyril G ...]

Read how it was during the attack of Sheffield. But in reality, an attack can be carried out by an external command center

[_Ugene_]

in reality, an attack can be carried out using an external command center

so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external management center, then let's add aax and then drying has no chance

[Cyril G ...]

Of course I have. For to shoot beyond the horizon is useless. Only a bunch of F-35 + Aegis works. But really, in order to disable Burke, it is necessary to give a volley of about 20-24 RCC. That is 12 percussionists with 2 anti-ship missiles under each.

[_Ugene_]

For to shoot beyond the horizon is useless.

why it is useless, the SM-3 has its own GOS, when approaching, it itself will capture the dryer

[Cyril G ...]

No. Does the impressive Fiasco and Redoubt definitely not say anything? There, on the SM-6, the seeker is weak and the aperture angle of the ARGS is not very large, and in order for her to get somewhere with a missile launcher, it is highly advisable to bring to the target for radio correction and roughly put a nose. Therefore, Shooting without seeing the target = miss, or fam needs a Penguin.

[_Ugene_]

if the coordinates of the target go from avax in real time, why can’t they lead the missiles to the target and poke your nose?

[Cyril G ...]

AWACS is not a firing station and the working range is different and the errors in determining the range and height of the target are very large. That is, of course you can shoot, only with a probability of 0.95 you won’t get anywhere. It was not for nothing that I reminded about the Fiasco with Redoubt, they even watched the target perfectly on the survey Furke. And this is better than getting the info from AWAX at times, but its accuracy did not fall below the baseboard. It was necessary to implement an emergency version of escort when shooting through the Puma.

[_Ugene_]

Can I link to Fiasco with Redoubt?

[Cyril G ...]

Damn big post napeysal so he flew nafig. I will be brief. I do not collect links. See the discussion of shipboard air defense systems of the Russian Federation on the forum of the Balancer. There Alex_Navy chewed why it works this way and not otherwise. On Courage, the holes of Aegis were also discussed. But he has holes and limitations.

[_Ugene_]

those. AWACS is a surveillance radar and can not induce anything in principle?

[Cyril G ...]

No suggestion. Issue TSU yes.

[Charik]

The SM-6 missile has the following advantages: The ability to simultaneously intercept any number of targets, the SM-6 missile, equipped with its own active seeker, does not need to “illuminate” the target with the radar of the carrier ship, which allows you to simultaneously intercept as many targets as there are missiles. targets hidden from the radars of the carrier ship beyond the horizon The possibility of effective destruction of stealth targets at long distances The possibility of more effective counteraction by means of electronic warfare - due to the bilateral data exchange with the carrier ship and the possibility of comparing data from the onboard radar of the rocket and the radar of the ship. The ability to intercept ballistic targets

[Cyril G ...]

Only 18 targets can be intercepted at a time, namely so many channels of radio correction. If you shoot further 15-20 km of missiles without radio correction there will be a miss with a guarantee.

[Charik]

as if there are fools, they put rockets that miss, do we have the same situation with the C300 ship as we do with the SM?

[Cyril G ...]

Do you read what they write to you? Or "I see it that way" ?: Aegis has 18 radio correction channels. That provides guidance of 18 missiles to 18 targets. If you release the SM-6, without radio correction, then the chance to get there will be at relatively small distances, no more than 20-30 km. The capture range of Uranium ARGSN anti-ship missiles from SM-6 is in the region of 3-7 km. The opening angle is not great. To be guaranteed to hit, you need to bring the SAM with ARGSn to the target using radio correction and literally poke it with your nose at the target.

And in real combat conditions, an average of 1 out of 3-4 missiles hits the target.

[Charik]

But isn’t 18 channels enough against 2 Kayaks or Uranians or X31 A and P, what’s the discussion about the fact that one Su24 will sink Burke, what? There are extremely low altitudes with jumps of 50 km from the ship, well, you read it yourself they saw, I understand that if Burke is loaded with everything that the RTR can do, low-altitude flights, inconspicuous PKR, then one is not a warrior in the field.

[Cyril G ...]

Against 2, in theory, enough. How it will work in reality, God knows, in real shooting, Aegis shot at a maximum of 4 targets ...
I immediately said that the minimum amount of anti-ship missiles in a strike should be at least 24 pieces. In this situation, with a missile defense breakthrough, there is a good chance of getting at least once.

[Charik]

so am I about the same that with one Dryer it is easier to disperse to Burke Banzai than with 2 missiles

[Cyril G ...]

I certainly didn’t dispute that. By the way, really a squadron of drummers to defeat EM a certain standard from the time of WWII to this day

[Avior]

which will come from different directions, if on the one hand, these are optimal conditions for the operation of the ship's reps and traps.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: _Ugene_

in reality, an attack can be carried out using an external command center

so this is a completely different story, we are considering a one-on-one hypothetical confrontation, and if there is an external management center, then let's add aax and then drying has no chance

Come on, but there are not so many AWACS, but on condition of one on one - that is, the destroyer against the Su-24M with the X-35U, the latter has a satellite guidance system.

In 2009, an upgraded version of the X-35U rocket, called X-35UE, was presented, intended for delivery to foreign customers. After all the modifications, the launch weight of the rocket reached 670 kg. Dimensions remained the same. The engine and fuel tank taken from the X-35U provide the new CRP with a range of up to 260 km. According to some reports, it is possible to start at a distance of 300 km. The most important innovation of the project was the update of the guidance systems. The inertial navigation system was supplemented with satellite, and the active radar ARGS-35 was replaced with an active-passive radar GPS of the “Gran-K” type. Target detection range increased to 50 km.

https://topwar.ru/76289-protivokorabelnaya-raketa-h-35.html

[_Ugene_]

if the satellites support drying, then the berka too, and then the drying position is known in advance with an accuracy of meters despite the low height

[Avior]

on Sheffield, the radar was turned off - prevented by phone chatting

[Charik]

you can still remember about 2MV when the Japanese banzaili

[strannik1985]

where to let RCC if the ship does not see the drying, in white light?

Probably an external data center?

[_Ugene_]

we do not consider the external CPU, this is a different story

[strannik1985]

Then the comparison is pointless.

[_Ugene_]

if we consider drying with external support, then the berks should be with external support and it will be Avaks, nothing good will come of it

[Sky strike fighter]

Yes, but with one on one AWACS will not be.

[_Ugene_]

with one on one and the external control will not be

[Charik]

Maxim, again? There X25 drowned here 35mi, yes, with no chance of one or two Su24 even modernizing the destroyer even with SM-2, even more so since SM2 was removed and there are such anti-missiles that remain Su24mu among at least 10 vehicles with 300 km to shoot, if he has the ability to carry such missiles

[strannik1985]

if we consider drying with external support

So how is it? Did the Romanian Navy really help the Donald Cook EM?

[_Ugene_]

and that "Donald Cook" was sunk or at least damaged? it is quite possible that the drying was discovered and conditionally destroyed long before the dangerous approach

[strannik1985]

and that "Donald Cook" was sunk or at least damaged?

No, but how will the Romanian Navy help in this?

[_Ugene_]

I don’t know, but what about the Romanian Navy? sort of discussed the effectiveness of the su-24 against arly berk

[strannik1985]

I don’t know, but what does the Romanian Navy have to do with it?

Because "Donald" took part in maneuvers with the Romanian and Bulgarian navies.

[_Ugene_]

in the waters of the Black Sea in general it makes little sense to discuss all this, everything from the Crimea is shot at by coastal complexes

[strannik1985]

Do you think regular joint maneuvers in the Black Sea are purely for political support? I agree.

[Charik]

in the Baltic?

[Charik]

from last week they’re drowning - they’re heating up X25mi now with 35mi then with two then with one Su24

[Avior]

can only work with avionics F-35 using Link 16.

or with Hokai, he is also able to transmit the necessary coordinates

[strannik1985]

It remains to find out what they forgot over the Black Sea F-35 and Hokai?

[Avior]

and who will forbid them to fly there, international waters?

[Charik]

It remains to find out where the case discussed now

[Cyril G ...]

Not as far as I remember, Hokai does not provide the necessary accuracy of target tracking.

[venik]

Quote: Avior

or with Hokai, he is also able to transmit the necessary coordinates

=======
And what, "Hokai" now have learned to fly from destroyers like "Burke"? And aircraft carriers in the Black Sea seem to be prohibited from entering! (ie "from there" - you can, but "there" - no, no!) .....

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: venik

And aircraft carriers in the Black Sea seem to be prohibited!

By whom and when?

[venik]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

By whom and when?

========
Montreux Convention of 1936 (Articles 10 and 11 on the types of warships having the right of free passage through the straits), as well as restrictions on the tonnage of ships non-Black Sea states residing in the Black Sea.

[Alexander mosin]

Ok, thanks, I didn't know. But didn’t Amer Avik enter the World Cup in 2008.08.08? It seems that I remember something, reluctance to dig in the internet.

[venik]

Quote: Alexander Mosin

But didn’t Amer Avik enter the World Cup in 2008.08.08?

===========
No, I didn’t come! In the World Cup, never had an American aircraft carrier! In August 2008, the flagship ship (control ship) of the 6th US Navy Mount Whitney displaced 18.4 thousand tons.

Although it looks like an aircraft carrier, it has nothing to do with them - so-so - purely a "staff vessel"!

[ancient]

Quote: Cyril G ...

In general, if the destroyer is single, then the unit and even the Su-24 squadron can calmly approach a distance of 40-60 km below the radio horizon and launch anti-ship missiles in an amount sufficient to defeat it.

What anti-ship missiles are you planning to launch from such a range and at what height?

[Cyril G ...]

RCC can be launched from low altitudes by making a small slide. Aegis reaction time of at least 10-15 seconds and the first start, the maximum can be overslept. Rate of fire 1 / rocket per second from the ship. SAM flight time per 100 kilometers is approximately 90-100 seconds. That is, during this time you can make the slide calmly aim at the radar and launch the X-35, then go to ultra-low altitudes to begin the retreat. Mustache. Now the destroyer will not be up to the bomber. The amplitude of the salvo of anti-ship missiles from one side will be around 8-12 seconds. The required outfit of forces to kill Burke is the Bomber squadron with 2 anti-ship missiles each.
For the X-31, the tactics will be slightly different.

[ancient]

Quote: Cyril G ...

SAM flight time per 100 kilometers is approximately 90-100 seconds.

You are mistaken .... exactly half

[Cyril G ...]

No, you are fundamentally wrong. Actually, since 3.5 M is the maximum SAM speed, the actual flight time will probably not be much more.
3.5M is approximately 1150-1200 m / s
100 km / 1150 or 1200 m / s = 83-86 seconds.

[ancient]

Quote: Cyril G ...

No, you are fundamentally wrong.

Well, it means the Americans have missiles ... "slow", similar to our 9M96 have 2100 m / s.

[Cyril G ...]

At a speed of 9M96, how many sources there are so many opinions.

[ancient]

Quote: Cyril G ...

RCC can be launched from low altitudes by making a small slide.

1. What exactly are anti-ship missiles from a Su-24M airplane?
2. Time for the "process of detection, aiming and C / U" for the navigator.?
3. What is "salvo range"? Maybe the density of the salvo and the number of missiles in the stream?
4. This is how you "famously" calculated the required outfit of forces and means? What were you guided by?
Is it really part III of the Guidelines for the combat use of TSA?

If my memory serves me, then for guaranteed destruction of the destroyer four or five hits are necessary (missiles of the type X-31AD, X-35U)
. When calculating the probability of a lesion, its value is taken no lower than 0.8. (Based on a range of 75% of the maximum).
We get a launch range of about 187 km. (Ie, in principle, there is a possibility of attack from a greater range and "capabilities" of the PrNK allow).
(Depending on the D to the target from the launch line, you can .. one Su-34 can handle )

[Cyril G ...]

item 1. - X-35
item 3. - volley of salvo? The time interval between the release of missiles. Not?
item 4. Well no. I'm a sailor and not a pilot. TR Navy-90. And memory is cheating on you. 2 anti-ship missiles with a probability equal to 0.8 destroyer will be destroyed.

[ancient]

Quote: Cyril G ...

item 1. - X-35

1.Not applicable with Su-24M
2. The time interval between volleys.
3. A quote from the previous comment - ".... for guaranteed destruction of a destroyer, four or five hits are required (missiles of the Kh-31AD, Kh-35U type."
"Hto" spoke for the 2nd RCC?

[Cyril G ...]

Under item 1. Good wish to consider question X-31?
Under item 2. I remember differently, but okay. Not the point.
According to paragraph 3. I say. 2 anti-ship missiles for the loss of fighting capacity Burke enough.

[venik]

Quote: ancient

Quote: Cyril G ...

item 1. - X-35

1.Not applicable with Su-24M

=========
Yah???
"...Currently carriers X-35U there were several series of surface ships of the missile boat / corvette class, Su-24 aircraft, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 and anti-submarine Tu-142, as well as Ka-27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K helicopters. The missile is used as part of the Bal coastal missile system... .... "(https://iz.ru/646068/dmitrii-litovkin-aleksei-ramm/morskikh-i-vozdushnykh-ubiitc-obedinili)
PS So what? Still APPLY? Or to learn a little "materiel"?

[Sasha_rulevoy]

Quote: venik

Su-24, Su-30, MiG-29K / KUBR, Su-35S, T-50 aircraft and anti-submarine Tu-142, as well as Ka-27, Ka-28 and Ka-52K helicopters.

In real life, the X-35 was only allowed with the Su-34.

[venik]

Quote: Sasha_rulevoy

In real life, the X-35 was only allowed with the Su-34.

========
Sasha! And HOW can one distinguish REALITY from "virtuality" in our time?

[ancient]

Quote: venik

So that? Still APPLY? Or to learn a little "materiel"?

The "mat. Part" must not be studied from Izvestia.
Su-24M improvements according to KB bulletins (89-90gg). Gosy (stage B) on launches of Kh-31A and Kh-31P (then PDK-L-021 (one of the letters of the "head") appeared, I wrote about this more than once ... than this " ended ".. I will not write
I saw the 2nd modified car
And if you believe the "rumors", then half of the Algerian MKs have been finalized, and for the Syrians, it seems, during the repair of theirs Su-24MK2.
All our Hephaestus machines "seem to be able", but only with a separate revision of the OMS.
So your statements and statements like ..... "oh well" ... are not accepted.
Yes - it’s when it’s in service and is widely used
Ask a question ... how many pilots and navigators in combat units have experience in using X-31A and X-31P missiles?

[venik]

Quote: ancient

Improvements to the Su-24M according to the KB bulletins (89-90gg)

=======
Excuse me, WHAT is our year in the yard? In my opinion, the 2020th .... Or am I mistaken?
-----

Quote: ancient

Yes - it’s when it’s in service and is widely used

========
RCC X-15 and X-22 - also were in service .... And you know of cases of their mass use?
------

Quote: ancient

Ask a question ... how many pilots and navigators in combat units have experience in using X-31A and X-31P missiles?

========
Do you know HOW MANY crews had experience (at least 1 training) of X-15 launches? The answer is: 1-2 to the naval aviation regiment! The rest threw "blanks" (mass-dimensional models) !!!
------

Quote: ancient

All our Hephaestus machines "seem to be able", but only with a separate revision of the OMS.

=========
HOW MANY of them have been "finalized" (as of today)? Do you know?
PS I understand of course that you pros in matters of aviation ... I just don't know, are you NOW "in the subject" or memories of the days gone by?
PPS This is - "no offense be said" - just because of my "native" army theme I can't even imagine WHAT is now and how much "it" has gone FORWARD!

[ancient]

Quote: venik

Excuse me, WHAT is our year in the yard? In my opinion, the 2020th .... Or am I mistaken?

Why is this an inappropriate question? ... I wrote to you the period of time when newsletters on revisions about which I know were issued ......

.

Quote: venik

RCC X-15 and X-22 - also were in service .... And you know of cases of their mass use?

Why is it ... standing X-22s are still standing and ... they feel great ... for your information
All regiments that were armed with X-15 missiles (one squadron in Orsha, Bobruisk and Shaikovka) since 1986, regular launches were carried out, up to and including removal from service.
And the X-22 is still "bullet" ... under the USSR, so in general, the BP plans were 3-4 practical launches on the regiment ... not counting the sudden checks.
Your humble servant was launching ed.098.107 and 102 at n.500 and n.600
I won't say about the "sailors" ... I don't know if they had them at all (since these are not goals for the MPA)

Quote: venik

HOW MANY of them have been "finalized" (as of today)? Do you know?

I wrote how many of them were converted .. I DO NOT KNOW ... were in Lipetsk and Pereyaslavka (in those days).

Quote: venik

I just don't know, are you NOW "in the subject" or memories of the days gone by?

Exclusively "memories of the days of the past" and "inside" from meetings with veterans (there are also "young" veterans whom we "trained" in due time).
I quit the Russian Armed Forces in December 1999.

[3danimal]

X-35 - an easy target for air defense of the ship (as many say about Harpoon).
The X-31A has a significantly shorter range (with a low altitude flight profile) and a weaker warhead.
(When flying at high altitude, the risk of a shotdown due to earlier detection increases).
In addition, having shot back at the ship, the crew should be ready that several SM-6s will fly in to its soul.
An attack on a rocket ship of the 1st rank by one (and not the most modern) tactical bomber is a pure adventure.
Again, this situation involves a war with the United States (for what?), In this case, the destroyers will not sail, as in peacetime.

[Charik]

bullshit bullshit

[venik]

Quote: _Ugene_

very large epr (from different angles 10-25 sq.m.)

========
This, excuse me - "nasal projection" 25 sq. M ????? Those. 5x5 meters ???

[rocket757]

Nothing new, these are the "boys' games".
It's just ridiculous to watch the "shopkeeper" rush to "protect" the cardinal

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: rocket757

It's just ridiculous to watch the "shopkeeper" rush to "protect" the cardinal

No wonder, because together they are a terrible force!

[rocket757]

Something like this. Who is there at Sherkhan and who is spinning under his feet?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: rocket757

Who is there at Sherkhan and who is spinning under his feet?

Is it that who is most often sick with rabies and runs into the jungle in fits, biting everyone in his path?
As far as I remember this story, near the end of the book, Gray Brother broke his spine.
"The tale is a lie, but there is a hint in it, a lesson for good fellows" ©. But not everyone ...

[rocket757]

And do not pick up scraps for all! It may not be so troublesome, but the result is predictable at a time!

[Barmaleyka]

all this bravado right up to the first shot, and that will be all simple, or you will tighten or turn it away
80 years ago, the French turned away, and those who were in the Brest Fortress sjudzed and stepped into immortality

[smart ass]

Falkland War Claims Otherwise

[Charik]

Yes, but in 2MB, ships were rammed in general by planes and threw free falling, and even earlier .......

[smart ass]

If you drop deeper then Su 24 and take off inappropriately, any NATO ship in the Black Sea lives as long as Russia allows .... balloons, bastions have not been canceled

[Charik]

Yes, everyone trains as much as possible, but why discuss mouse squeaking, the article was already last week, everything was discussed there

[Avior]

you're right.
not a single entry of anti-ship missiles into the combat-ready combat ship

[Cyril G ...]

Right ?! And in someone let more than one rocket?

[Avior]

exactly

not a single entry of anti-ship missiles into the combat-ready combat ship

[Pvi1206]

You can say anything you want ... in a combat confrontation a lot depends on the skill and ingenuity of people, and not just on technology ...

[Kalmar]

Firstly, why is there such a lot of attention to the Polish media lately? Are there any cool experts formed?

Secondly, in my opinion, it is already quite obvious that a single Su-24 does not pose a significant threat to a destroyer. Its purpose, rather, is simply indicated: like, "and we see you."

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Kalmar

Secondly, in my opinion, it is already quite obvious that a single Su-24 does not pose a significant threat to a destroyer. Its purpose, rather, is simply indicated: like, "and we see you."

So this is what the Polish article discusses, that all these Drying maneuvers over Cook have only a propaganda character and no combat value. And someday fly, once again.

[Andrey the Magnificent]

Again about this "Donald Cook" here goes to the ship, ours drive him like a lousy in the bathhouse !!!)))

[voyaka uh]

On the contrary, the sailors are thrilled. No boredom and patrolling routine,
but "action". Photos, videos. There will be something to tell wives or girls at home.
Both Russian and American sailors and pilots love such interceptions.
and simulated attacks. In peacetime - the very juice!

[cniza]

It has always been like this, and it continues like this, everyone is working on each other ...

[Cyril G ...]

When a tornado passes 50 meters on board, the feeling is not very

[HAM]

The Poles will not praise ... so who else? Maybe the Poles will break off something from this (they will still be appointed "beloved wife").
And why did the Polish "interceptor" jump with the landing gear down at the sight of the SU, scaring it?

[meandr51]

He demanded that he land at his airdrome from drying.

[Insurgent]

Quote: meandr51

He demanded that he land at his airdrome from drying.

Where he only there saw the airfield ... And on what basis did the idiot-pilot have a desire to "invite" him to his airfield?

[meandr51]

This is Polish ambition, reaching the point of idiocy. Or just decided to troll.

[Insurgent]

Quote: meandr51

This is Polish ambition, reaching the point of idiocy. Or just decided to troll.

That one, that the other - foolishly looked ...

[rotmistr60]

Polish edition of Defense24.

Bad is the Pole who does not deeply lick the United States and does not show off over Russians. Therefore, the position of the media is understandable and understandable.

Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to

Ku, ku poles ... You will ask the Americans what happens to the electronics of their ships when flying our plane if they (the Americans) do not understand that they are required to get away in neutral waters and not interfere with the exercises. Admiring American power and belittling the capabilities of Russian weapons has often been observed on the site in the comments of some (grouped) visitors.

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: rotmistr60

You will ask the Americans what happens to the electronics of their ships when flying our plane if they (the Americans) do not understand that they are required to get away in neutral waters and not interfere with the exercises.

Apparently the Americans themselves told you what happens ?? Laughter attack can? Or are you from the Khibin witness sect? And how did Drying fly over Cook? Was he scared and turned around?

Quote: rotmistr60

Admiring American power and belittling the capabilities of Russian weapons has often been observed on the site in the comments of some (grouped) visitors.

Adequate people discuss technical features without reference to any nation or country. Some have more developed industry and technology, while others have less.

[Al_lexx]

He does not sit at home. So fucking complain.
In the comments to the video, one after another - "these Russians, they are so aggressive" ..)))

[Forest]

Leaky Aegis like Hollywood Superman.

[Olddetractor]

And yet they fly. And some just write and everything about someone else’s

[Angelo Provolone]

if scolded, then everything is in order

[Charik]

Where-who-who-scolds?

[Vasyan1971]

Su-24s can fly over American ships not because they are so good and the pilots who control them are so well trained, but because the Americans allow them to

Yes Yes Yes. Now all that remains is to say something like: the Germans did not capture us in 27 days because they were "so good and so perfectly trained," but because we allowed them to.

[meandr51]

Whom is this you?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: meandr51

Whom is this you?

Not clear from the context? Flood hunting?

[meandr51]

And this is not a flood and provocation, to assert that the Germans captured "us" in 27 days? It is not clear who they captured ...

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Not clear from the context? Flood hunting?

[aszzz888]

"This opinion was expressed by the Polish edition of Defense24."
Deflection counted. The grub is earned. You can wipe the foam at the mouth.

[Charik]

This topic was chewed and spat out last week, it is not clear why now discuss what the mice say about it.

[meandr51]

This is not a combat run, but a reminder of how they are treated and where they are. So that life does not seem like honey. So that there is no "dizziness from success" that they are afraid. Nobody is afraid of them, they will drown them right away, if anything. No Aegis will help, even if something is shot down.

[Chingachguk]

Everything would be so if it were not for the videos posted by Cook's sailors themselves.
The second point, with what fright I should believe some Pole who receives salaries for precisely this kind of article, the main message of which is an attempt to tarnish the reputation of the Russian Federation - Putin, since the president himself, answering the questions of the journalist, answered that it was exactly so, that a new development of our gunsmiths called "Khibina" was attached to the drying under the wing, and it was used to extinguish the latest American development of Aegis.
Better to tell how the United States flew to the moon with the help of Hollywood ...... It will be sooooo interesting to listen!

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Chingachguk

Everything would be so if it were not for the videos posted by Cook's sailors themselves.

And what is so sensational on this video ?! Glad Yankees for whom the show was staged?

Quote: Chingachguk

The second point, with what fright I should believe some Pole who receives salaries for precisely this kind of article, the main message of which is an attempt to tarnish the reputation of the Russian Federation - Putin, since the president himself, answering the questions of the journalist, answered that it was exactly so, that a new development of our gunsmiths called "Khibina" was attached to the drying under the wing, and it was used to extinguish the latest American development of Aegis.

Khibiny never put on the Su-24. This time. And two, ask first what Khibiny is in general and their purpose. Statements that the Khibiny are capable of drowning IJIS are enchanting nonsense and outright lies. It’s similar to the video that Putin showed to the American director how the Russian Air Force hacked babaev in Syria, which was not from the Russian Air Force, but from the US Air Force and not in Syria, but in Afghanistan ..

[Chingachguk]

Well, if you said so, then it is !!!!!!
"Khibiny" (product L-175V) - Soviet / Russian aviation complex of electronic countermeasures (KREP). "
And what to do with this?
Or do you think that the Internet exists only for you? We can continue to google .....

"The Russian front-line bomber Su-24, which arrived at Donald Cook, had no bombs or missiles on board. One container with the Khibiny electronic warfare system hung under the fuselage. Having approached the destroyer, the Khibiny turned off its radar, combat control circuits, and systems data transmission - in short, we turned off the entire Aegis, as we turn off the TV by pressing a button on the remote control. After that, the Su-24 simulated a missile attack on a blind and deaf ship. Then another and another - only 12 times.

When the bomber departed, Donald Cook hurried to the Romanian port to get her nerves in order. "
Still google it?

[Alexander mosin]

Quote: Chingachguk

Or do you think that the Internet exists only for you? We can google further ..

Are you deliberately fooling people with this nonsense here? Can it be written on your Internet that the moon is actually square? We will discuss how much the square moon?

[Chingachguk]

Hahahahaha! Funny you .... Poorly prepared !!!
So my internet is not correct, but yours is correct ???
I take your word for it! Hello to employers !!!!!!! Yes! Is the moon triangular on your internet?
And who only pays you for your activity here?

[vkd.dvk]

The Poles are right in one - the span in the immediate vicinity of the ship is a psychological attack. To destroy Burke or the like, you do not need to do this at all. It can also be drowned for 400 km. Moreover, he, quite possibly, will not even guess about it.

[Chingachguk]

The goal was simply to humiliate .... 12 times to simulate an attack ...... Humiliated above the roof! And why go so far from home?

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Kalmar

Quote: Winnie76

Under the radio horizon?

After the horizon and drying the destroyer will not see after all.

What about interacting with the ground services that the destroyer sees over a thousand kilometers? They will not help their, hiding below and not visible, where to crawl to get where it is necessary?

[Jarserge]

Twists and distortions of Polish servility to the owner can cause nothing but disgust.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: novel xnumx

routine .. they brazenly climb to our shores, we pretend to scare them, garbage question

Will it be right if we pretend that we don’t notice? Maybe we’ll send our on duty to Florida? If we had the opportunity, most certainly, they were on duty, and not only near Florida.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: _Ugene_

Yes, if we consider the confrontation in its purest form, it is unlikely that the Su-24 will be able to approach the destroyer at the launch distance of the PKR, the old plane, a very large epr (from different angles of 10-25 sq.m.), ship's air defense sees it from very far away

Let them get used and stop paying attention. Doesn’t the idea come to mind that we train them specially? Surprise can fly quite unexpectedly. For example, well modernized and with a different hitch? Moreover, when we need it.

[Stalllker]

Strange they are, Su 24 is just a delivery vehicle for missiles that will sink US destroyers

[Charik]

yes they’ll sink, but how many planes and missiles are needed? And here they kill a cookie with one 24m with two X35 (where did they come from-xs)

[Stalllker]

In something more serious to "dress" him, and not in x35

[Charik]

And what can be dressed more seriously on the Su24 (I even doubt about the 35s on it)

[Kasym]

This is most likely a Su-24MR scout. "It is intended for conducting complex all-weather reconnaissance during the day or at night at a depth of up to 400 km. ... The received intelligence information can be processed directly on board the aircraft in flight. Information is transmitted to the ground via closed communication channels, photo information can be dumped in special containers." This intelligence is most likely needed for the Bal or Bastion coastal complexes.

[Jack O'Neill]

With real databases, a couple of Dryers against one Burke will do nothing, Burke will shoot them.
Another thing, if we are talking about 10-12 Dryers, Burke will not physically manage it there physically.
And now, in peacetime, all this is just a window dressing, no more. And on both sides!

[Fitter65]

Su-24 can fly over American ships

So the joke itself is that the Russians can, but the Polish can’t. They can’t fly either over American, and even more so over Russian. that’s saliva and airplanes that place in the museum, you would have looked at your fleet 50% percent older than our Su-24 would be ...

[Romario_R]

Such articles form in the minds of the inhabitants, on different sides of the barricades, the possibility of "local wars" between nuclear superpowers. It would be good if the authors did not forget to finish their articles with stories about nuclear winter and the possible eternal silence on planet earth.

[Amateur]

Another "Sharp Pole of the Brain".

[orionvitt]

because Americans allow them to

But what, they may not allow it? Well, let them try.

[iouris]

And what can be argued here? However, the topic of deception has not been disclosed: who is being deceived? You can't fool yourself, it's pointless to deceive "partners" ("colleagues"). What's in the "bottom line"? Right. "Write, Shura, write your weights."

[Ros 56]

Let them tell the Syrian barmels, they will listen to them.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Charik

that's about how some container was able to drown out ship electronics - the option of ground-based eb is more real

If we estimate the distance from the ship to the flying aircraft and from the ship to the electronic warfare station on the shore, we get something like this:
20 meters from the ship to the plane less than 20 km from the ship to the coast. That is, it differs 1000 times. At such a distance, the EW signal strength is weakened squared from the distance, that is, 1000 ^ 2 = 1000000 times. If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts, then in order to have the same effect, the coastal must have .... Difficult to calculate. Will you help? Is this, in principle, possible?
It was not necessary to go to school to smoke cigarettes in the toilet.

[iouris]

Quote: vkd.dvk

If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts

You can think of it, only 15 kW is the rated power of one aircraft generator.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: novel xnumx

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

Enough of a single one. Airplane here is not for a fight. He is for psychological abuse. And, according to print reviews, it worked.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Jarserge

Twists and distortions of Polish servility to the owner can cause nothing but disgust.

I would say that there are much stronger feelings than servility. FANABERIA. DULL, ALL ABSORBING FANABERIA. Christians call it pride. Leading to sin and falling in Hell.

Quote: Max1995

But, in fact, it's all a fantasy. Here there was a debriefing in VO, an aunt was found on the Internet, who invented it all.
Not a single reference to Western media is provided. Recently watched.

After Cook, the same thing was written about at least one more destroyer (he’s like in the World Cup now), but already more confused and stupid.

Remember the groundhog .....
I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.

[Avior]

I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.

it has long been known
The country must know its hero
Hero's name is Dmitry Sedov
the source of all the hype is this comic article, which television turned into a serious report
http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2014/04/17/etot-prokljatyj-russkij-metallolom-27063.html

Mary, you cannot imagine what happened to us! We have never experienced such a shame in our life. Some of our guys were crying like children, others were banging their heads against inactive devices, the senior assistant in front of the crew drank a bottle of whiskey from his throat and yelled at the entire ship: "These fucking Russian" Khibiny "(Russian electronic warfare system. - D.S .), and the captain was green with anger. In this state, we were barely able to moor to the Romanian coast, and immediately after mooring, three dozen of our guys wrote a letter of resignation. They could not bear the thought that at the decisive moment our equipment could turn into shit, with which they would have to go to the bottom of the sea. I was hysterical and they took me to the hospital. Mary, I have always loved our America and I wanted the Stars and Stripes to bring freedom to the whole world. But after this incident, the thought of dismissal began to haunt me. To hell with them, money, my dear. We'd rather buy a small farm in Arizona, grow celery for sale, and sing psalms in our church on Sundays. I think that America is better off not taking our brothers in democracy in Ukraine under its protection. If one old Russian trough could put our supermodern "Donald Cook" on its side, then imagine what their new planes can do! And if they are capable of suppressing not only the instruments, but also the brains of the crew? Think for yourself, why do you need me without brains? I kiss you hard, always your Johnny.

but this part of the story on television was modestly omitted

[VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK]

Poland is a prostitute and listening to her nonsense is disgusting! Even more disgusting is that they publish it with us.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: iouris

Quote: vkd.dvk

If you think that the power of the aircraft station is 15 kilowatts

You can think of it, only 15 kW is the rated power of one aircraft generator.

Come up with it yourself. But you still have to multiply by a million. Has it become easier?

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK

Poland is a prostitute and listening to her nonsense is disgusting! Even more disgusting is that they publish it with us.

Need to publish. Otherwise, as in the USSR we will be snotty and stupid. Consider the bros of any bastard.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: vkd.dvk

Quote: novel xnumx

the question, in fact, is how much su-24 is needed to hurt the cookie

Enough of a single one. Airplane here is not for a fight. He is for psychological abuse. And, according to print reviews, it worked.

I will supplement it. They SPECIALLY sent this type, which does not have bomb bombs, with weapons on suspensions, outside. And he showed an empty belly, demonstrating that he was not armed.
Would they send FAT him? Think.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Max1995

Wah! This is great ... yes, yes, Ukrainians call it overpower!

From the shore !! Soak your EW destroyer somewhere near the center of the World Cup !!! Yes, and disguise it as EW Su !!! Yes, so that they all wrote down tearful letters and were covered with horror! Yes, so that no one has noticed this, except cheers-media !!
In general, a great breakthrough.

No wonder the breakthrough began to multiply.

The destroyer "Porter" later, read on the Internet, it already displayed 3 SU, with the same result - electronic warfare, letters, dismissals in tears, and no one except ura-smi did not notice, even the Chinese ...

Write down, read your opus, blush with shame and write sensibly what you wanted.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: novel xnumx

if Cook walks somewhere, it means that Avax hangs nearby, he will find ..

A working AWACS is still visible on takeoff. He risks the most in the group. His first will be buried.

[Charik]

Yes, as soon as they break through the cover of Avax

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: novel xnumx

I would say if it was cut down? sucked already .. fake smacks of

Conduct a survey. Among those who crap one's pants and decommissioned after the campaign. Or did they just FIND a reason not to risk it? Then blame them for lying and plant ....

[Klingon]

oh well, got this Pshek bay. By the way, Pszekiah now exists only because at one time Peter and Katerina allowed them to do this. TCs were busy with other, more important matters.

[Topol M]

Psheki! And you check for lice military component of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. You have already received more than once in Susal, do you want more?

[polikutin.e]

Nothing, but the Poles probably just as well encouraged the unforgettable Adolf until he came to their guests. Everything in the world is cyclic. And in the new repeats.

[Bukhryakov Alexander Vasilievich]

Neither what is the version for himself, the author probably got stoned or stoned whatsoever before you sit down to write such an article

[Votyak]

"And my brother is a boxer, I will call him and he will beat your face ..."

[Charik]

And in general, Burke doesn’t shoot - they don’t shoot at him, it looks more like reconnaissance or a flag demonstration, and the war between the Russian Federation and the USA is waged by lizuns, perhaps without even imagining that there WILL be a TRUE WORLD, I think the Amer military themselves (part of them) - they understand and know that it’s worth it with Russia, and in general there would be fewer war fans in the world, there would be only Bush-Clintons-Rothsheels-Wrootweilers with their gangs to clean up-and there will be PEACE and grace-no one will arrange wars

[Charik]

not exactly diby, compare NK and the plane

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Avior

I wonder which KGB dug up the fact that 26 brave boys were written off the ship after the campaign? Start your search from here.

it has long been known
The country must know its hero
Hero's name is Dmitry Sedov
the source of all the hype is this comic article, which television turned into a serious report
http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2014/04/17/etot-prokljatyj-russkij-metallolom-27063.html

Mary, you cannot imagine what happened to us! We have never experienced such a shame in our life. Some of our guys were crying like children, others were banging their heads against inactive devices, the senior assistant in front of the crew drank a bottle of whiskey from his throat and yelled at the entire ship: "These fucking Russian" Khibiny "(Russian electronic warfare system. - D.S .), and the captain was green with anger. In this state, we were barely able to moor to the Romanian coast, and immediately after mooring, three dozen of our guys wrote a letter of resignation. They could not bear the thought that at the decisive moment our equipment could turn into shit, with which they would have to go to the bottom of the sea. I was hysterical and they took me to the hospital. Mary, I have always loved our America and I wanted the Stars and Stripes to bring freedom to the whole world. But after this incident, the thought of dismissal began to haunt me. To hell with them, money, my dear. We'd rather buy a small farm in Arizona, grow celery for sale, and sing psalms in our church on Sundays. I think that America is better off not taking our brothers in democracy in Ukraine under its protection. If one old Russian trough could put our supermodern "Donald Cook" on its side, then imagine what their new planes can do! And if they are capable of suppressing not only the instruments, but also the brains of the crew? Think for yourself, why do you need me without brains? I kiss you hard, always your Johnny.

but this part of the story on television was modestly omitted

You know, I like Mark Twain's story better. Or Jerome To Jerome.
There is real humor, and comes from the English-speaking mouth.
Do you like these PERLs? Read. It is written for people like you.

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: vikot9

There wasn’t any electronic warfare at all, this is a fictional nonsense

Of course. There was neither Cook nor Donald. They were devoured 200 years ago. How could they be here?

[Yuri Mikhailovsky]

Panova! What do you have to do with it?

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Charik

Confirmation when the video will be, well, or the shooter himself will say then I believe it, but in the newspaper they will order it and print it like any gossmi.

Is this suprise prepared against you? Do not believe. You will be a very big boss (God forbid), they will show you too. Not in the newspaper, but in reality.

[Protos]

Quote: Charik

et only for amers? and for the allies, and the little ones from Avik Hokai, so estimate that for every Burke enough

Aviks don’t come to our Black Sea Fleet, because of the puddle and Montreux!
But the Su-24M is an expanse with its low-altitude profile and crappy resolution of Arlyush DM radars and similar ones from NATO bedding!

[Charik]

Oh look, the Poles are discussing the Orion UAV - let’s go there, maybe we’ll sink Cook with it - for the third time

[Sasha_rulevoy]

The Su-24 can carry two types of missiles that can be used against ships. 1 - X-29L, 2 - X-29T. The first requires the presence of a ground aircraft controller, which is difficult to organize at sea. The second is a maximum range of 10 km, only during the day and in clear weather. Needless to say, the threat of launching a missile from 10 km for a destroyer looks ridiculous.

[Charik]

In the last article they tried to drown Cook with 29mi and with 25mi, he didn’t drown, in this one we drown him with 35mi

[Charik]

You can shoot at a standing X59 if they are mounted on a Su, X29L - can’t you illuminate it from the carrier itself? X29T-8-13 km, as well as X-29ML X-29TE X-29TM X-29TD X-29MP, but I’m not saying that with this you can attack Burke, especially with one Su24

[Andrey Krasnoyarsky]

Real combat operations will show what is effective and what is ineffective. Thank God they are not there yet. In a real battle, planes are unlikely to fly over the decks of enemy ships; most likely they will fire missiles from afar. So the “wise revelations” of Polish analysts are just hot air.

[Charik]

it is simply inadequate to compare the combat potential of Burke and Su24

[Vadim Petrov]

The Poles have not fallen asleep in the hands of others for a long time.

[Mister who]

There is nothing better than disinfection, let them think that it is not scary and relax)) but it can and does, they removed the radar and installed an irradiator and irradiate everyone)) they forget about our ingenuity.

[My Grandfather Vasily]

Gentlemen psheks are trying to forget the whole story, as in the song, I remember everything that didn’t happen to me!, okay, they would be happy for their successes, but there’s nothing except a rich harvest of strawberries, and even then there’s no one to collect them,,,

[1536]

Polish media should study the experience of the war between Britain and Argentina over the Falklands (Malvinas) basis, which occurred in 1982. It is known how the British fleet lost 2 frigates and 2 destroyers, 1 container ship and 1 landing ship in this war. All these ships were destroyed by Argentine aviation in 12(!) days of fighting. In addition, 3 more British destroyers and 2 frigates were seriously damaged. Argentine aviation losses were at 25%.
In 1982, the Poles were busy with yet another betrayal and destroyed socialism on their territory, in which the Americans helped them, and therefore, apparently, they believe that the American fleet is invulnerable to the “old” Russian bombers. But the Americans, apparently, remember well the events of that long-ago war. And why the Poles are now in euphoria, rendering their masters from overseas a disservice, is completely unclear.

[aloleggry]

Okay, I read it. There is an opinion, but I don’t care about this Aegis, Cook and SU. The question is simple: who completed the task and who did not. Ours seems to be yes, Cook seems to be no. Purple is how it happened. Or our sailor, having put the cards on the table, with the words: “I’ll go scare. I’m tired of making noise.”, got off his horse under Cook’s belly, surfaced and attached a bomb. Either they decided at Cook: “Isn’t it time for us to go to the base? These Russians are rustling under their bellies. It’s as if they didn’t set a bomb. And the beer is running out.” The question is, who won?

[Charik]

are you delusional uncle?

[Connor MacLeod]

Fun video!

By the way, the Poles themselves still fly Su-22s!

[IC]

All this is show-off. Since WWII, the use of large warships in closed seas has been useless. They will be instantly sunk by aircraft and BRAVs. In peacetime, they perform representative and military-diplomatic functions. Just like Russian Navy ships without air cover in the Mediterranean Sea.

[unmer]

Is anyone interested in the opinion of psheks?

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Charik

Yes, as soon as they break through the cover of Avax

Is he a pariah, or what?

[vkd.dvk]

Quote: Topol M

Psheki! And you check for lice military component of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. You have already received more than once in Susal, do you want more?

Isn't it from you? That's it, I see, he's brave. You even show the face of the avatar, and the first and last name..... Who taught you to be brave like that?