Pacific Fleet expects to receive frigate "Marshal Shaposhnikov" before the end of the year

The Pacific Fleet plans before the end of this year to return to its membership the frigate “Marshal Shaposhnikov” that has undergone modernization. This was reported by the press service of the Pacific Fleet.

According to the press service, the modernization of the frigate is on schedule, without disruption, despite the situation with the coronavirus. The ship repair center "Dalzavod", where the ship is being modernized and repaired, was visited by the commander of the Pacific fleet Admiral Sergey Avakyants, who got acquainted with the progress of work. Following the visit, the admiral expressed confidence that the ship would return to the Pacific Fleet by the end of the year.

As previously reported, the former BOD of project 1155 "Marshal Shaposhnikov" in the summer of 2019 was retrained as frigate. This decision was made by the Ministry of Defense.

During the modernization, the Marshal Shaposhnikov has already installed the Uran anti-ship complex with X-35 missiles, the universal caliber, Onyx or Zircon cruise missile launcher, the Bagira fire control system for naval artillery, the ship electronic suppression complex TK-25; bow artillery mount replaced. More than 20% of the ship’s superstructure were dismantled and newly manufactured, the hull was repaired, and other work was carried out.

The BOD was laid down on May 25, 1983, launched on December 27, 1984, and commissioned on December 30, 1985. In the Pacific Fleet since 1986.

Total displacement - 7480 tons, standard - 6840 tons. Length 163 meters, width 19 meters, draft 7,8 meters. Speed ​​30 knots, economical 14 knots. The crew of 220 people, including 29 officers.

Comments

[Mavrikiy]

Pacific Fleet expects to receive frigate "Marshal Shaposhnikov" before the end of the year

Once needed, will receive.

[Teberii]

New armament and equipment is what the fleet needs. There are still ships that can be re-equipped.

[knn54]

It would be nice by September 3.

[TermNachTer]

I didn’t understand from the article that UVP was put on him?

[Dart2027]

We wait. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations]

Total displacement - 7480 tons. And is this a frigate? But this is a destroyer and he will be more than Burke.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations

Total displacement - 7480 tons. And is this a frigate? But this is a destroyer and he will be more than Burke.

and rockets are fewer at times.

[Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations]

Well, Burke has 74 missiles and 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Shaposhnikov has 64 anti-aircraft missiles, but I still don't understand how many anti-ship missiles he has, but probably at least 8. So the difference is not so great. And according to the performance characteristics, Harpoons next to Caliber were not even lying around.

[kjhg]

Quote: Salavat EMERCOM

Well, Burke has 74 SAMs and 8 Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Shaposhnikov has 64 SAMs

Do you even understand what you are writing about and what you are comparing with what? On Arly Berks are universal launchers MK-41. One SM-3 or Tomahawk rocket can be loaded into each cell, depending on the task. Also, this PU installation allows you to load 4 short-range anti-missiles in each cell. On Shaposhnikov there is only a short-range air defense system dagger. I'm not talking about the powerful Aegis radar, which makes it possible to shoot down even intercontinental ballistic missiles on the marching part of the flight. So, our frigate and the American destroyer are comparable only in displacement.

[Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations]

Do you even understand what you are writing about and what you are comparing with?

Sorry, not a specialist, that's why I am writing something about which I learned some facts in the public domain. You know, in the Ministry of Emergencies, where I work, it’s a little taut with the Harpoons and Aegis. Although, as I understand it, Aegis allows only to detect, but to shoot down ... Will they knock me down?

[alexmach]

Although, as I understand it, Aegis allows only to detect, but to shoot down ... Will they knock me down?

One SM-3 rocket can be loaded into each cell

[Romario_Argo]

I'm not talking about the powerful radar Aegis

sewage radar Aegis on 4 TsU on 4 radar = 16 TsU with a lower border of not less than 60 meters

[Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations]

16 central control units with a lower border of at least 60 meters

What does this mean? That he cannot launch a rocket below 60 meters? Sorry, not an expert, and in terms such as "channel" - a complete layman, I would like to comment on knowledgeable people, what is so good about this Aegis

[bayard]

Boris, type the word "Aegis" on Wikipedia and enjoy the knowledge. Do not bother people to discuss the news.

[kjhg]

Quote: Romario_Argo

I'm not talking about the powerful radar Aegis

sewage radar Aegis on 4 TsU on 4 radar = 16 TsU with a lower border of not less than 60 meters

You have outdated information. This issue has been resolved.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations

Total displacement - 7480 tons. And is this a frigate? But this is a destroyer and he will be more than Burke.

Also drew attention.

the former BOD of project 1155 "Marshal Shaposhnikov" in the summer of 2019 was retrained into frigates. This decision was made by the Ministry of Defense. Full displacement - 7480 tons, standard - 6840 tons. Length 163 meters, width 19 meters

Destroyers of the Sarych project

6 500 t (standard),
7 t (full) Length 904 m (largest) Width 156,5 m (on design waterline)

As the saying goes: Find the difference.

[donavi49]

Badden Wurtenberg 7200t - frigate.

A large series of Nigiri, where the Indians drove Zorya and bought American afterburner turbines - under 7000 tons.

The latest variation of the Italian FREMM - the extreme block (which was handed over before the coronovirus) has grown to 6870t.

[novel66]

armor is not enough ..

[bayard]

Quote: novel xnumx

armor is not enough ..

And artillery - three towers of three trunks in 12 inches.
And SAILS - a frigate, after all.

[Svarog51]

And artillery - three towers of three trunks in 12 inches.
And SAILS - a frigate, after all.

The battleship will turn out with an unlimited swimming range. Sails are better than scarlet and a letter of marque to the commander.

[novel66]

I know him!!! Interesting, still alive?

[Svarog51]

John Silver? So he commanded the galley.

[novel66]

it was a disguise, do not remember chtoli?

[Svarog51]

Riot to the end, and failed. Captain Smolett remained in office.

[novel66]

that's a shame

[Svarog51]

Silver? Wow! So why do we need a loser? I suggest Blood.

[novel66]

it’s impossible with that name on our fleet ...

[Svarog51]

Can Silver be? We will register it under a different name. We use the witness protection program.

[novel66]

Silver - he is Silver, but imagine how Blood will call downline?

[novel66]

nice to meet like-minded !!!

[89625588851]

UKKS is certainly good, but it would be interesting to know if there were any work on modernizing the Dagger air defense system, who knows?

[alexmach]

Most likely not, since in the first there are no reports about this, and in the second, the dagger itself, as an air defense of self-defense, seems to be not so bad.

[Dart2027]

Quote: alexmach

Dagger as a self-defense air defense

The problem is that it is short-range air defense, and ships of this size usually have something more long-range. I’m only afraid that I can’t shove Redoubt or Calm down on him.

[alexmach]

This is true, but modernizing the Dagger cannot solve this. It is a pity that at least the very minimum of Calm cells was not pushed in. Apparently, it will continue to carry out combat missions under the cover of a ship with a more developed air defense system, and now walk in pairs with 22350s. On the other hand, building a "death star" on the basis of a well-worn ship is probably a futile occupation.

The only thing that pleases is that they reported that the remaining 3 Pacific Fleet BODs will undergo modernization under the same project.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

Apparently, it will carry out combat missions under the guise of a ship with more advanced air defense, and now walk in pairs with 22350s.

But the "Polynomial" as it shies away - all the hydroacoustics in the ocean will go deaf ... and the whales jump up on the shore ...
In general, it turned out well, and quite budget. I hope in the modernization of the following boards will be able to cram 3 UKKS, as in the last 22350+, there is enough space there.
And to try to put a new air defense system and an air defense system to it is to remodel the entire ship, and it is already old. Renovated power plants, strengthened armament, updated avionics ... what else is needed for happiness? He will serve another 15 years, and at rest.

[alexmach]

And trying to put a new air defense system and radar systems to it is the whole ship to remodel

And to try to install the USKK with the entire nomenclature of missiles to it, is this ship not to be redone or what?

In general, it turned out well, and quite budget

Well .. there were opinions that it would be even more budgetary to place the same missiles in inclined launchers.

But in general, the news about the modernization of the "daring" is very positive. Finally they waited for her.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

Well .. there were opinions that it would be even more budgetary to place the same missiles in inclined launchers.

And this is a remake of the rocket ... and its PU. Budget will not work.
And here - they threw the tower, cleared a place in the turret with a gas cutter, inserted 2 - 3 UKKS, extended the cables to the FCS and ... high .
And what about the modernization version for the 90s (it was typeset in the late 80s)? When, instead of tower number 2, there are as many as 48 CR in six UKSK! And "Polyment-Redut" with UVP for 96 missiles, which even in place of torpedo tubes stuck out ... BEAST ... Yes, plus another 4 x 4 = 16 anti-ship missiles X-35 in inclined launchers in place of the PLUR.
That's where Orly Burke rested !!!
Yes, ours and a hundred times more beautiful.
But ... did not grow together, this was a task for a superpower ...
And now - according to the age of years and opportunities ... only budget modernization.

[alexmach]

And this is a remake of the rocket ... and its PU. Budget will not work.

Which makes sense if there are Soviet ships with inclined launchers in the fleet. And the alteration is not at all Veleika. The same "Onyx" was used on the reel with an inclined launcher. This is exactly what a budget solution.

stretched the cable to the MSA and ...

and redo the SOU. And from scratch.

And what about the modernization version for the 90s (it was typeset in the late 80s)? When, instead of tower number 2, there are as many as 48 CR in six UKSK! And "Polyment-Redut" with UVP for 96 missiles

All the same, it was not a project to modernize the existing BOD, but an entire destroyer, which at the same time cost from scratch.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

And what about the modernization version for the 90s (it was typeset in the late 80s)? When, instead of tower number 2, there are as many as 48 CR in six UKSK! And "Polyment-Redut" with UVP for 96 missiles

All the same, it was not a project to modernize the existing BOD, but an entire destroyer, which at the same time cost from scratch.

And they were going to build such from scratch, and modernize the combatants during the planned repairs. There was a plan of modernization for the "Grenades" and "Onyx" in the USK and destroyers of the "Sarych" type - instead of the aft tower UKSK stick. There were many plans ... There was a Great Country.

Quote: alexmach

stretched the cable to the MSA and ...

and redo the SOU. And from scratch.

So anyway, after all, they redid it. You cannot place new weapons without this.

Quote: alexmach

And this is a remake of the rocket ... and its PU. Budget will not work.

Which makes sense if there are Soviet ships with inclined launchers in the fleet. And the alteration is not at all Veleika. The same "Onyx" was used on the reel with an inclined launcher. This is exactly what a budget solution.

For the 90s, such a modernization was quite justified, and "Onyx" was really tested first on inclined launchers. But at one time there was no money for rearmament, and later - all new ships from the UKSK were planned, the coastal complex also - a vertical launch. So the plan was good, but it did not work out in time, and now they are sculpting only under the operating launchers.
Re-equipping old ships is simply unprofitable - too expensive for ships that have 15 years of life after a major overhaul. The cost of such an upgrade is almost like a new ship coming out. And no less time. So it’s better to build new ships, and thereby extend the life until the shift arrives.
1155 and so it turns into a decent beast after such, even shrunken, modernization. He's an anti-submarine ship after all. He has a "Polynom" and new PLUR in the UKSK, yes 8 - 16 anti-ship missiles X-35, and two helicopters. Will fight again. And for serious tasks, you can take a walk with a couple of 22350. Together they will cost more than any "Burke".

As with ship repair, you yourself understand now that they will not be able to pull more anyway. But such a "budget" modernization of 1155 will reduce the time of the modernization itself and drive as many ships as possible through it. The main thing is that the Ukrainian power plants have learned to repair - it was most important, the rest is easier.

[alexmach]

. So the plan was good, but it didn’t work on time, and now only under the existing PU missiles sculpt

To realize the possibility of launching vertically and from an inclined launcher for the same missile is a minimal change.

Re-equipping old ships is simply unprofitable - too expensive for ships that have 15 years of life after a major overhaul.

A little higher were you happy with the modernization of not just such a ship?
And there are 7 of them
+ Chabanenko
+ 2 more guard patrols at the Black Sea Fleet.
+ MRK
+ maybe a couple more "hawks on the move"
That would be for them the most budgetary modernization with the replacement of the Civil Code.

There have recently been reports of Ladnoye being out of repair. It came out with new turbines and will obviously last the same 10-15 years. But with what to serve him then? He doesn't have such modern weapons. Why not replace his irrevocably outdated PLUR complex with an inclined USKK?

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

To realize the possibility of launching vertically and from an inclined launcher for the same missile is a minimal change.

This will have to change the start algorithms in your head. Have you seen what kind of equilibristics at the vertical start is "Onyx"? From an oblique one must be completely different. "Gauges" from the incline have never started. That is, the missiles will have to be altered for an inclined launch (in this case, they will not start from the UKSK and will not be universal), and this is expensive and unjustified.
With inclined launchers, only the X-35 now starts with us. Here they can be put on the old watchmen, as they are put on the RTOs now.

Quote: alexmach

A little higher were you happy with the modernization of not just such a ship?

He who does not rejoice at such modernization has neither mind nor heart.

Quote: alexmach

And there are 7 of them
+ Chabanenko

And wonderful, here they are for modernization, and it is advisable to modernize not only at Dalzavod, but also in Severodvinsk, and in a stream, so that in as little time as possible.

Quote: alexmach

+ 2 more guard patrols at the Black Sea Fleet.

Except for the X-35, UKKS, you can’t shove them into the watchmen.

Quote: alexmach

+ MRK

They already put 4 x 4 = 16 X-35. This is quite enough.

Quote: alexmach

+ maybe a couple more "hawks on the move"
That would be for them the most budgetary modernization with the replacement of the Civil Code.

These disappear - their power plants are unstable, only support. They have boiler-turbine units that are unique in their time, but there is no one to upgrade them. Alas.

Quote: alexmach

There have recently been reports of Ladnoye being out of repair. It came out with new turbines and will obviously last the same 10-15 years. But with what to serve him then? He doesn't have such modern weapons. Why not replace his irrevocably outdated PLUR complex with an inclined USKK?

This is an anti-submarine ship, and will serve in this capacity. Like a watchdog. With a gun and old PLUR. You can also add a couple of PU 2 x 4 X-35 anti-ship missiles to him for solidity. To observe enemy ships in the Black Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean, it is quite enough to issue target designations for the coastal complexes Bastion and Bal, as well as aviation.
And build new ships - 22350, 22350M and 20380.

[alexmach]

This will have to change the start algorithms in your head. Have you seen what kind of equilibristics at the vertical start is "Onyx"? From an inclined one must be completely different

This is a bullshit task. The rocket has already solved much more complex ones, this one is also solvable.

That is, it is necessary to remake rockets for an inclined start (in this case, they will not start from the UKKS and will not be universal)

Will be. Once again, having a good rocket starting vertically to add the ability to launch at an angle is neither impossible nor difficult. This is done, and there is nothing to fence a garden with 100-500 comments about how difficult it is. It is relatively not difficult.

"Gauges" from the incline have never started

And how do they start at Varshavyanka? Can they from the USKK, can from under the water, can from the supply from the torpedo tube and from the inclined launcher can not? This is some kind of nonsense and not an argument.

With inclined launchers, only the X-35 now starts with us. Here they can be put on the old watchmen, as they are put on the RTOs now.

It is possible, but it is a rocket of a different class. For example, replacing Mosquitoes with the X-35 will completely change the concept of using the ship. Replacing them with Onyxes is just to modernize the ammunition.

And wonderful, here they are for modernization, and it is advisable to modernize not only at Dalzavod, but also in Severodvinsk, and in a stream, so that in as little time as possible.

With inclined PUs, this would be easier faster and cheaper.

They already put 4 x 4 = 16 X-35. This is quite enough.

What exactly is enough for? For shore strikes, for example, is it enough? And for a massive attack on KUG / AUG?

These disappear - their power plants are unstable

The Chinese are repairable, the Admiral Kuznetsov is repairable but not repairable here? and why? I agree that there is a question that makes sense, but it is with respect to any modernization of any ship.

This is an anti-submarine ship, and in this capacity will serve

Okay? It is already irretrievably outdated in that capacity.

[bayard]

Well, neither the naval commanders nor the shipbuilders of our inclined launchers want to bother. They made such a decision and do not intend to refuse. I would also like to see the Atlantis upgraded to the Caliber and Onyx, but ... we were late. The ships have become old. And the modernization of "Ustinov" showed how expensive and long even this version of it is. And even more so with rearmament. Look at the agony with the modernization of "Nakhimov" - for that kind of money and for such a period it was easier to build a new one.
Loss of competency?
Yes .
But not only that. It’s just that sometimes repairing an old ... not even a ship, but ... a car leads to such costs and time that it is cheaper to buy a new one. So in this case. Therefore, the decision was made to repair and maintain the old ships, modernization, but budget, for 1155 - as the most repairable and in demand ships - to update and re-equip.
And wait for the arrival of new ships, for which all hope.

If the budget is limited, and it is necessary to plan expenses in the long (with the fleet always so), choose priority directions and refuse ballast.
So it happened with the "Sarychami" - there is no one to repair them here. And the Chinese ... they switched to gas turbines not so long ago, and I would not be surprised that the equipment from the St. Petersburg plant, where the power plant for the "Sarychs" was sculpted, they transported to themselves under the guise of scrap metal ... This is my version, but the right to life has, the Chinese often did this ...
Now, old ships must somehow stretch 10-15 years before the shift arrives. Exactly - to stretch. At the lowest cost, because funds are needed for the construction of new ones.
1155 has an enviable fate in general - they were not written off and put on the wall in the 90s, they were driven by services all zero and tenths, and now the only candidates for modernization. Painfully successful buildings and power plants ... Yes, and they are beautiful.

And the X-35 is not worth sinning. It is at least small, but it is smart with its head and its flight profile is extremely low-altitude - a difficult goal. Especially if in a massive salvo. At MRK there are now 16 of them. set, and such boats rarely go one at a time. Even a pair of such RTOs in one gulp at 32 KR will not only puzzle any ship, but also the KUG. And at 1155 they are put as an auxiliary weapon - for less priority purposes.

Our Fleet has no time for fat now, but at least two decent surface ships they will receive this year - "Admiral Kasatonov" and "Marshal Shaposhnikov" ... and "Moscow" from repairs. If I wait, it’s almost a holiday of the soul ... And when the Nakhimov is commissioned, new frigates, two a year, will begin to be commissioned ...
To live.

[alexmach]

Well, neither the naval commanders nor the shipbuilders of our inclined launchers want to bother. They made such a decision and do not intend to refuse.

They are something very much reluctant from what is really needed.

And the modernization of "Ustinov" showed how expensive and long even this version of it is. And even with the rearmament and even more so

It seems to me against the background of the work that was done with him and those investments, the modernization of weapons in the first place would not be super expensive ... It would be a plus to the estimate but not a space plus. And with that level of investment in its modernization, re-equipping it with modern missiles would be a very logical decision.

1155 has an enviable fate in general - they were not written off and put on the wall in the 90s, they were driven by services all zero and tenths, and now the only candidates for modernization. Painfully successful buildings and GEMs ... Yes, and they are beautiful

Yes, the ships showed themselves well and it is excellent that at least they undergo modernization from the old Soviet backlog.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

Well, neither the naval commanders nor the shipbuilders of our inclined launchers want to bother. They made such a decision and do not intend to refuse.

They are something very much reluctant from what is really needed.

Capitalism ... and his daughter is corruption.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bayard

Well, neither the naval commanders nor the shipbuilders of our inclined launchers want to bother

it's a pity and I agree with the previous speaker -

Quote: alexmach

They are something very much reluctant from what is really needed.

and call them laziness - the engine of progress, I would not be in a hurry .. because really

Quote: alexmach

With inclined PUs, this would be easier faster and cheaper.

. Do not be offended by my friend - Vitaliy, but here is a ball towards Alexander (alexmach (Alexander) .

Quote: bayard

Now, old ships must somehow stretch 10-15 years before the shift arrives. Exactly - to stretch. At the lowest cost, because funds are needed for the construction of new ones.

And here I completely agree with you !!! And already a ball in your direction ... But ...
"I am plagued by vague doubts"- in the sense that I don’t quite understand what they are going to change / repair March turbines of ships pr. 1155?! Statistics "frozen pending repair" three units of 1155 (1155.1) of the Northern Fleet, as if indirectly indicating that here is the root of the problem ?! don't you find ?!

[bayard]

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

"I am tormented by vague doubts" - in the sense that I do not quite understand how they are going to change / repair the cruise turbines of ships pr. 1155 ?! The statistics of three units of 1155 (1155.1) of the Northern Fleet "frozen in anticipation of repair", as if indirectly testifies that this is the root of the problem ?! don't you think ?!

I hope that the solution to the root of this problem lies in the successful (but given with great effort and nerves) repair of the power plant of the BOD Marshal Shaposhnikov. If they managed to repair and restore the power plant of this ship, it means that they have learned, capacities and competencies have appeared, and therefore it will be easier, faster and more fun with the next ships. Indeed, it was after the solution of THIS problem that plans were announced to modernize all ships of this series. But there were opinions that the repair of "Shaposhnikov" would become "eternal" with a smooth flow into utilization.
So after the success with the "Shaposhnikov", I am looking at the repair of subsequent ships with some optimism. But in order to have time to modernize at least most of these ships, you need to start work on at least two shipyards and put them on stream, otherwise they will rot before the turn arrives.
And as for the other types of ships ... Look what is going on with us in general with ship repair - with the repair of the same nuclear submarines and submarines. It's horror and melancholy. Neither capacity, nor funds, nor personnel are chronically lacking. The Sevastopol Shipyard and the Kerch "Zaliv", which arrived in time with the annexation of Crimea, are now reviving and possibly diluting this terrible statistics. But "Moscow" and "Ladny" are only repairs and restoration of serviceability. Few are capable of more.
Therefore, I have the same opinion about inclined launchers - they did not have time to carry out modernization with rearmament (at least for the Onyx) at one time, when the ships had a resource reserve - alas, time wasted. Now these old men are repaired, like an old car, when whatever you touch, everything crumbles. And the price of renovation with modernization is sometimes more expensive than the construction of an equivalent new one. The example of "Nakhimov" is especially evident here - according to rumors from Klimov, the cost of all repair and modernization works came close to 200 (!!!) billion rubles. Moreover, most of this amount has already been spent, and at the old rate. For comparison, the nuclear destroyer "Leader" is estimated at about 100 billion rubles.
Feel the difference in costs and results?
It is for this reason (well, the experience of modernizing Ustinov) led to the fact that headquarters grabbed their heads - repairs are more expensive and longer than building a new ship!
Therefore, the refusal to modernize "Moscow", "Varyag" and "Peter the Great".
And bet on the construction of NEW ships.
That is, it’s not a fool of admirals here, but pure arithmetic.
Plus problems with marine diesels and gas turbines, gearboxes, in general with gas turbines.
For already a year and a half or two I heard about the purchase and the beginning of the deployment of a large number of gear cutting machines and other machine tools to solve the problem with gearboxes, they promise just about a whole line of marine diesel engines ...
And the more you think about it, the more clearly you understand that it would be easier and cheaper in 2014 to simply return Ukraine to Russia - at the request of its President Yanukovych, and not have problems with either the power plant for ships, or with the engines for aircraft and helicopters, nor with the resumption of production of Ruslan, the production of An-70 in Ulyanovsk, An-148 for the RF Ministry of Defense instead of Tu-134, nor problems with gas transit to Europe.
In the worst case, they would have had the same sanctions, but would have felt MUCH better.

The right decisions must be taken on time.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bayard

I hope that the solution to the root of this problem lies in the successful (but given with great efforts and nerves) repair of the power plant of the BOD "Marshal Shaposhnikov".

I hope too ...

Quote: bayard

If you managed to repair and restore the power plant of this ship, then - learned (1) , there were capacities and competencies,

it IF managed reestablish ?! and were not used as "donors", parts of the power plant from three ships that got up for repair 1155 Northern Fleet (2) ?! but unfortunately, I’m not sure what happened as you and I dream (see option 1), and not as unfortunately happens most often in reality (see option 2) ... and then, -

Quote: bayard

... and so with the following ships it will be easier, faster and more fun

becomes questionable ?!

Quote: bayard

After all, it was after solving this problem that announced plans for the modernization of all ships of this series .

Well .... say loudly about "grandiose plans" it’s like in that saying about, - "to promise, not to be married yet" ... and believe me, I say this with regret. God grant that it turns out that I am not too trusting to the promises of the industrialists in the plans for the revival of the fleet. Here I would like to be mistaken, but ..

Quote: bayard

But there were opinions that the repair of "Shaposhnikov" would become "eternal" with a smooth flow into utilization.

And while, for example "Admiral Chabanenko" did not come to life ?! , so that objectively testifies to, -

Quote: bayard

restore the power plant of this ship, means - learned, power and competencies appeared ,

?! With your comments going further (in the text of your post), I certainly agree in their greater degree. With uv. Vladimir

[bayard]

I myself treat the statements of our industry with ... caution. When we see "Shaposhnikov" in the ranks - I will drink a glass for the initiative, and when I hear that one or two more BODs went for repairs, it means that the repair of the power plant really works out. There is no place to take new turbines for them anyway.
Even if it is possible to upgrade 3-4 ships, it will be great, especially since in a couple of years 22350 \ 22350+ should begin to arrive one or two a year - it will become easier.
This year, the Admiral Kasatonov will enter service, the Marshal Shaposhnikov and the cruiser Moskva will return, and these are three first ranks. Not often in recent years has the fleet been replenished with surface ships. And the submarine fleet will also be replenished.
But there are still more uncertainties than confidence.

[alexmach]

There is nowhere to take new turbines to them anyway

Well, actually it was about the development of Saturn production and the marching turbines they needed, too. But this was the next priority task after the development of the 22350 GEM. Well, these same turbines, as I understand it, will also be needed for the 22350M.

[bayard]

The power and characteristics of a power plant, which is being prepared for the 22350M, are quite suitable - a turbocouple on the M70FRU (10 - 000 l / s) and the M14FR (000 l / s). But whether it will be possible to integrate it into 90 building ... is a very controversial issue. In addition, this GEM is not there yet, and it is being prepared for the new 27M, the laying of which is delayed due to the unavailability of the GEM.
So for now, the only hope is for repairs. Although ... maybe "Saturn" will surprise ...

[alexmach]

and prepare it for the new 22350M, the tab of which is delayed due to the unavailability of the power plant

This is not true, we have already discussed this in a previous article. His bookmark is not delayed. Its laying is not possible due to the unavailability of the project, on which, as reported, they do not work after the completion of outline design half a year ago.

According to the power and characteristics of the power plant, which is prepared for 22350M

Yes, indeed, I looked closely at 1155 "native" other installation. But as far as I remember, it was about the fact that the M70FRU was planned to be used in the repair of old ships.

[bayard]

Quote: alexmach

Yes, indeed, I looked closely at 1155 "native" other installation. But as far as I remember, it was about the fact that the M70FRU was planned to be used in the repair of old ships.

The question is whether it will fit the gearbox in terms of speed. However, the M70FRU in this case is used as a march, i.e. maximally loaded during operation. If she succeeds in replacing the mid-flight turbine with 1155, this will solve a lot. It would be possible to integrate. That’s why I said

Quote: bayard

maybe Saturn will surprise you ...

As for the 22350M ... most likely they decided to continue the 22350 series for now and finalize the Super-Gorshkov project.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: alexmach

looked closely at 1155 "native" other setting.

absolutely.

Quote: alexmach

But as far as I remember, it was said that the M70FRU was planned to be used in the repair of old ships.

No, for lack of their marching engines similar to DO90 (9000 hp), they supposedly wanted to trick the M75FR (7500 hp). Even in places of fastenings customized (I came across an article on "livejornal", unfortunately I can not find the link) but ... about her (M75FR) after 2006, nothing was heard ...?! apparently did not go (didn't come out) she is sensible ....
The trouble is that the "Saturn" GTEs have neither an analogue of DO90 (9000 hp), nor DT-59 (22500 hp), nor DT59.N1 (18500 hp) / to continue series "Petrel 11356 R / M ...?!

[alexmach]

The trouble is that the "Saturn" GTEs have neither an analogue of DO90 (9000 hp), nor DT-59 (22500 hp), nor DT59.N1 (18500 hp) / to continue series "Petrel 11356 R / M ...?!

Then everything with the engines is even sadder than I thought.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: alexmach

Then everything with the engines is even sadder than I thought.

Unfortunately yes. Alas, this is an objective reality.
Moreover, DO90 was offered as the main type of sustainer engines for both BOD 1155 and SKR11540 ... and DT59, as the main afterburner type. But most importantly, the Nikolaev "Zarya-Mashproekt" did gearboxes to them without straining in convulsive convulsions, as now "Zvezda-Reduktor", and the shipbuilding programs of the USSR, went like clockwork. Today, not only is NPO Saturn able to produce only two types of GTEs (M90FR and M70FRU), and the third M75FR "somehow it didn't work", and also the assembly speed of gearboxes "Zvezda" ...?! - https://shoehanger.livejournal.com/547182.html (And here I found the link you promised, about the gearbox and the gas turbine engine ...)
Therefore, in Russia, for full-fledged and rhythmic shipbuilding programs, you need it very urgently - create your NEW center for the construction of marine ship gas turbine engines and gearboxes for them (like the Soviet "Zarya-Mashproekt") !!! Otherwise, all shipbuilding programs will stall !! The only thing that can save, at first (say for the period of his creation / formation, and reaching certain capacities), it is now to drive a series of fr. 22350 for DMZ, to stimulate (and control) Zvezda-Reduktor as much as possible, for the production of gearboxes it has already mastered, and to invest on Kolomensky 16SD-500 (in 10000 hp), as the most promising of diesel engines, for "quadruple" (as in 20380) GEM, by analogy with DDA-12000 .... (under the same project 11664 increased towards pr. "Thunder" 12441...) !!!
For example, the Chinese did not flap their ears, and the license for the forced version of the DT-59 from Zarya-Mashproekt, they bought and set up their serial production, under the index QC280... !! She is on pr 055 !!! and like afterburner on 052D / seven out of thirteen plans, already in operation / ... !!! They learned how to release their / license GTD DT59 / TURBINES AND REDUCER, and no longer stall !!!
Russia, however, missed the point and did not buy timely licenses for the main ones for its Navy DO90 and DT59 (like DK59 in 18000 HP. and DS-71 in 8450 hp)?! But the main thing that they missed, questions and technology for manufacturing gearboxes for them !!!

[APASUS]

The campaign underwent a serious modernization of the Project 1155 Marshal Shaposhnikov BOD, until that moment the BODs were not equipped with universal launchers for Kalibr, Onyx or Zircon cruise missiles,

[Nemchinov Vl]

Actually, it seems to me that if Admiral Sergey Avakyants were "yet big fan your fleet ", then he probably would have found like-minded people in the General Staff (and other high military command of the Navy and the Russian government), and with them together would throw a global tantrum to the leadership (it was very asking to write, - the masturbation of the country !!), which finds 127,6 billion rubles for the laying of the nuclear icebreaker "Leader" (!!) (on the "Star" in Bolshoy Kamen ?!), and at the same time does not find such means to lay there either four frigates 22350.1; or 2 such frigates, and one BOD / EM of the digitized project 11560 (for modern weapons systems; 64 cells of the Poliment-Redut air defense missile system / under which, by the way, one of the options 11560 was planned, at the design stage /, and 32-48 cell UKKS (!!)), so as not to be wiser with the new 22350M ?!

[bayard]

Greetings, Vladimir!
Are you all about the patient?

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

BOD / EM of the digitized project 11560 (for modern weapons systems; 64 cells of the Polyment-Redut air defense missile system / for which, by the way, one of the variants 11560 was planned, at the design stage /, and 32-48 cell UKSK (!!)), so that not to be smart with the new 22350M ?!

For the sake of this just have to be wise.
22350M, this is the same 22350, but with a more powerful gas turbine power plant and increased ammunition, the construction of which the industry has already mastered. Delay with bookmarks ONLY due to the unavailability of the power plant, and so as not to be distracted from bringing and testing the power plant for 22350.
These two ships are continuation of each other, with the unification resulting from this and simplification in the process of training crews.

But as for the icebreakers "Leader" I completely agree - prematurely, "Zvezda is not ready for this yet. Not a single ship has been built there from scratch, and the only one that was launched was mostly built in Korea ... complex order ...
The impression is that on the last day of his premiership, Medvedev made a farewell sabotage - he signed a decree on the start of construction of the "Leader".
But warships will not be able to build there all the more. Firstly, it is much more complicated, despite the displacement. Secondly, there are civilian orders for a decade / decades ahead of the queue - for this purpose a shipyard was built. Under these orders, the government is already asking for the construction of ONE or two of the same super-shipyards in other places - it will not cope with all orders.
And what's the point of laying the hulls of new ships if the power plant is not ready for them? God forbid the industry to provide "Yantar" and "Severnaya Verf" with engines ... Then the Amur Plant (I hope it will swing and will be able to build destroyers and frigates again) and ... perhaps the Kerch Plant - they also built the 1135 series there, and not only.
But this is if there will be enough power plants.
In the meantime, be patient and wait for the first tests of the domestic power plant on a real ship. If everything goes smoothly, it will be.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bayard

Greetings, Vladimir!
Are you all about the patient?
Quote: Vl Nemchinov
BOD / EM of the digitized project 11560 (for modern weapons systems; 64 cells of the Polyment-Redut air defense missile system / for which, by the way, one of the variants 11560 was planned, at the design stage /, and 32-48 cell UKSK (!!)), so that not to be smart with the new 22350M ?!

Greetings Vitaliy Peace at home !!!

Quote: bayard

For the sake of this just have to be wise.

not really .

Quote: bayard

... it's still the same 22350,

Scaling 22350 to 22350M (in the VI 8000 tons, in the 3-D project) is about the same task as re-digitizing 11560 to 3-D, under new weapons systems. The power plant under them would be the same (!). And the number (ammunition) of missiles (RCC / SAM) is the same (!), but it would be easier to fit it into the previously planned VI of the project 11560 (which is 9-10 thousand tons). And seaworthiness 1155 is time-tested ... Well, you know my position, is it worth repeating? ...

Quote: bayard

But about the icebreakers "Leader" I completely agree - prematurely

Soon we will have more icebreakers than combat NKs of the first rank !! This is outrageous. As well as the fact that the shipyard, built on budgetary funds, in the first place does not work to solve the problem of the Navy (and first of all the Pacific Fleet !!), but looks like the executor of commercial orders for Rosneft (?!), despite the fact that - "the king is naked" ...

Quote: bayard

And what's the point of laying the hulls of new ships if the power plant is not ready for them? God forbid the industry to provide Yantar and Severnaya Verf

Well, about this we have already spoken. This problem will only be resolved when your - center for offshore gas turbine engine building and gear assembly, similar to the Soviet "Zarya-Mashproekt" !!! Rybinsk does not play the role of such an enterprise yet (and I'm afraid it will hardly be able to do it in the future ...).

[antivirus]

again on a teaspoon per year. when is 100 thousand tons of VI?
everything was lost and Papanov died, and Mironov with Gaidai (?)
what is the average GDP - only modernization of 7 thousand tons of VI, when 100 will be built?

[bars1]

Laid on May 25, 1983 In the Pacific Fleet since 1986. Total water displacement of 7480 tons.
You can get fucked now what is the level of degradation of the shipbuilding industry!

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations

Total displacement - 7480 tons. And is this a frigate? But this is a destroyer and he will be more than Burke.

and rockets are fewer at times.

it's not about quantity but quality

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: antivirus

again on a teaspoon per year. when is 100 thousand tons of VI?
everything was lost and Papanov died, and Mironov with Gaidai (?)
what is the average GDP - only modernization of 7 thousand tons of VI, when 100 will be built?

this trash is not needed, any large vessel is a good target, there is in mine tonnage how much cover is needed

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Nemchinov Vl

Actually, it seems to me that if Admiral Sergey Avakyants were "yet big fan your fleet ", then he probably would have found like-minded people in the General Staff (and other high military command of the Navy and the Russian government), and with them together would throw a global tantrum to the leadership (it was very asking to write, - the masturbation of the country !!), which finds 127,6 billion rubles for the laying of the nuclear icebreaker "Leader" (!!) (on the "Star" in Bolshoy Kamen ?!), and at the same time does not find such means to lay there either four frigates 22350.1; or 2 such frigates, and one BOD / EM of the digitized project 11560 (for modern weapons systems; 64 cells of the Poliment-Redut air defense missile system / under which, by the way, one of the options 11560 was planned, at the design stage /, and 32-48 cell UKKS (!!)), so as not to be wiser with the new 22350M ?!

you forgot one little thing, 2 oceans wash us and a bunch of seas, you can say 3 oceans. And we must not spray resources. Khrushchev was right that he did not start a race of aircraft carriers, etc., but developed air defense. Since then, no one has been climbing to us! both cheap and cheerful

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: lvov_aleksey

... you forgot one small thing, 2 oceans wash us and a bunch of seas, you can say 3 oceans.

Did you forget ?! It seems not !! Therefore, the eastern borders (PF !!), must provide new BNK of the first rank "Star" (in Bolshoi Kamen) !! While the Northern Shipyard will replenish frigates 22350 - SF и BSF...

Quote: lvov_aleksey

And we must not spray resources.

And I'm talking about it !! Read carefully !! -

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

... which finds 127,6 billion rubles to the laying of the atomic icebreaker "Leader" (!!) (on the "Zvezda" in Bolshoy Kamen ?!), and at the same time he doesn’t find such means to lay four frigates 22350.1 there

!!! This amount should be spent on BNK for "naked TOF"and not on a super icebreaker !! They have already been planned and are being built more than a dozen !!!

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Nemchinov Vl

Quote: lvov_aleksey

... you forgot one small thing, 2 oceans wash us and a bunch of seas, you can say 3 oceans.

Did you forget ?! It seems not !! Therefore, the eastern borders (PF !!), must provide new BNK of the first rank "Star" (in Bolshoi Kamen) !! While the Northern Shipyard will replenish frigates 22350 - SF и BSF...

Quote: lvov_aleksey

And we must not spray resources.

And I'm talking about it !! Read carefully !! -

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

... which finds 127,6 billion rubles to the laying of the atomic icebreaker "Leader" (!!) (on the "Zvezda" in Bolshoy Kamen ?!), and at the same time he doesn’t find such means to lay four frigates 22350.1 there

!!! This amount should be spent on BNK for "naked TOF"and not on a super icebreaker !! They have already been planned and are being built more than a dozen !!!

a lot of the fleet goes to the Pacific Fleet from the west, I'm not in state structures, but it can be more profitable for everyone. Nobody should cancel the loading of the plants, they may not trust the big financing in the Far East after the cosmodrome and Sakhalin.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: lvov_aleksey

Quote: Nemchinov Vl

Quote: lvov_aleksey

... you forgot one small thing, 2 oceans wash us and a bunch of seas, you can say 3 oceans.

Did you forget ?! It seems not !! Therefore, the eastern borders (PF !!), must provide new BNK of the first rank "Star" (in Bolshoi Kamen) !! While the Northern Shipyard will replenish frigates 22350 - SF и BSF...

Quote: lvov_aleksey

And we must not spray resources.

And I'm talking about it !! Read carefully !! -

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

... which finds 127,6 billion rubles to the laying of the atomic icebreaker "Leader" (!!) (on the "Zvezda" in Bolshoy Kamen ?!), and at the same time he doesn’t find such means to lay four frigates 22350.1 there

!!! This amount should be spent on BNK for "naked TOF"and not on a super icebreaker !! They have already been planned and are being built more than a dozen !!!

a lot of the fleet goes to the Pacific Fleet from the west, I'm not in state structures, but it can be more profitable for everyone. Nobody should cancel the loading of the plants, they may not trust the big financing in the Far East after the cosmodrome and Sakhalin.

I want to add, my grandfather was mobilized only in September 45 with the Far East
and do not forget about China, with which they have never fought, a good cover with a union of states on joint defense.