Military Review

We like air need new diesel engines for the army and navy

168

Have you ever been in a situation where a little man put you in an awkward position with one or two questions? But I recently had to experience just such an embarrassment. We watched the famous film "White Tiger" with a neighbor boy of 4 years old. The kid looked in all eyes behind the ups and downs of the plot and at the end of the film he asked: "Uncle Sasha, why didn’t they do the same for our other tankmen? Tankslike the one who defeated the German? ”


I don’t know about you, but I watched this film more than once, but I didn’t have such a question. Probably because adults know too much and lose the ability to ask simple questions with age. We get used to finding explanations for everything, but we can’t ask questions anymore. But such a simple question that I heard is really important. The answer to this question in the film is shown by more than a dozen wrecked Soviet tanks and terrible types of burned tankers.

Instead of a heart a fiery motor


Of course, I could tell the kid about the advantages of the Soviet T-34 over German tanks, I could tell him that it was this tank, by the decision of the uncles who understood the tanks, that it was recognized as the best tank of the Second World War and much more. But Karen Shakhnazarov intervened with a lot of burned best tanks on the screen. And all my explanations turned into husks.

After all, the truth was one. Simple and unpleasant. We made exactly the tank that we were allowed to make our capabilities. And now I'm not talking about the capabilities of our engineers and designers, not about the production workshops of tank factories. I'm talking about engines. Those same "fiery motors that are instead of the heart." How many good projects were ruined only because there was no engine of the required power.

A powerful propulsion system is needed like air. This is the dream of designers of any technology. From tractor to space rocket. And this is exactly what is always missing. Which always slows down the project for a certain period. But more often, it generally cancels its implementation in the future.

Give a good diesel!


For some reason, most readers have the opinion that the problem with Russian diesels arose recently. And this is due to the sanctions that Western countries periodically impose on us. Alas, the problems started much earlier. And they began to solve them too long ago. But this is not always easy to implement.

Remind history, which is still proudly remembered at the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. The story concerns the familiar to most T-90S tank.

In 1996, we negotiated with India to purchase a batch of Russian T-90s for the needs of the Indian army. Exactly the same negotiations were conducted by Pakistan and Ukraine. There they talked about the purchase of Ukrainian T-80UD. The T-90 at that time was already in service with the Russian army and was quite comfortable with the Indians. But ... The Ukrainian tank had a 1000-horsepower engine and the Indian military could not buy a T-90 with an 840-horsepower power plant. Ambition, you know.

Then they commissioned Barnaul Transmash to make a new diesel engine. But the engine did not pass the test. The contract with the Indians was broken. Head of GABTU Colonel General S.A. Maev tore and metal. And then representatives of ChTZ appeared who proposed to develop their own diesel engine. Mayev agreed, but the Chelyabinsk citizens had to develop the engine at their own expense and at their own peril and risk.

As a result, T-90S tanks with new, unparalleled in the world, V-92C2 engines went to India for testing. Now all experts already know about the fact that at the time of testing this engine did not even pass all the required tests.

Then, in the Thar desert, near the Pakistani border, at a temperature of 57 degrees, tanks with new engines showed the characteristics above those specified in the contract. The Indians “killed” them consciously. Moreover, the task was to specifically overheat the engines to see the inside of the engine. T-90S withstood everything.

The creation of the V-92C2 diesel engine was such an important event in Russian tank construction that quite a lot of experts in the tank field generally consider this event the return of Russia to the world elite of tank manufacturers.

The problem with the T-90 was resolved, but, as practice has shown, the problem with tank engines in Russia remains. Heavier cars can no longer satisfy even 1000 strong diesel engines.

What do you call a yacht, so it will sail


We observe the same picture in the Navy. In general, the whole history of shipbuilding is the history of the search for the most effective sources of energy to ensure a given course of the ship and provide power to the weapons. And the main engine for the Navy today is diesel.

True, there is a category of ships, the size of which allows you to install nuclear power plants on them. These are submarines with a displacement of over 4000 tons and surface ships from 8000 to 100000. It is clear that the number of such ships is quite limited by many factors.

Let me remind you which power plants are installed on ships of different types. On non-nuclear submarines, two types of ES are used: diesel-electric and anaerobic. Combat boats with a displacement of up to 500 tons are equipped with diesel-electric or diesel-gas turbine power units. PMO ships (mine defense. - Aut.) With a displacement of 100 to 1500 tons are equipped with diesel-electric power plants.

Ships of small and medium displacement, from 500 to 3000 tons, are equipped with DEU and DGTEU. Military surface ships of large displacement, from 3000 to 40000 tons, are equipped with gas turbine power units and combined gas and gas turbine power units. On ships with a displacement of 3000 to 90000 tons - boiler turbine power plants.

From all of the above, we can draw a simple conclusion: the fleet need diesels! Notice, I did not mention auxiliary vessels, from 100 to 25000 tons. But there are diesel power plants everywhere. Without a reliable, powerful, unpretentious to fuel and easy to maintain and repair a diesel engine, we cannot develop our fleet!

Instead of a conclusion


The problem of technological lag in the production of diesel engines in Russia is quite acute, as I mentioned at the beginning of the material. Moreover, the problem hinders the development of not only the military but also the civilian sectors, in particular, railway transport, so much so that in 2011 the Federal Program was adopted, which explicitly indicates the need to raise domestic diesel production to a new level

And it was planned to do this in five years. Well, humanity has not yet come up with engines that are more economical in terms of fossil fuel consumption. Diesel engines are used almost everywhere today. And the tendency to improve them can be seen quite clearly in the development of designers of all the leading countries of the world.

And we have a backlog. Let me remind you the words of the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov, which he said at the opening of a new production complex for the production of new generation engines at the Ural diesel engine plant in Yekaterinburg on July 12, 2016:

In less than 4 years, we were able to make a qualitative technological breakthrough in the family of high-speed engines with power from 1 thousand to 4 thousand kW. The developed family of DM-185 engines in terms of functionality, parameters of efficiency and environmental friendliness are not only not inferior, but also superior to foreign analogues. Thanks to this, we can, without any loss, refuse to use a number of foreign diesel engines in transport engineering, shipbuilding, and small energy. This will give an additional impetus to the development of entire sectors of our industry.

We have no right to fall behind again.
Author:
168 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Same lech
    Same lech April 24 2020 06: 19 New
    +5
    And what does not suit a gas turbine engine?

    https://topwar.ru/33172-chto-dlya-tanka-luchshe-gazovaya-turbina-ili-dizel.html
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather April 24 2020 06: 27 New
      25
      уже смешно до икоты от слов "неимеетаналогов",особенно когда дело касается двигателей....
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 April 24 2020 06: 36 New
        0
        and what makes you hiccup in this phrase? Analog (from other Greek. Ἀνάλογος - corresponding, proportionate) - an object (technical solution) of the same purpose, similar in combination of essential features. It follows that any change in these values ​​gives the right to say that it has no analogues. it makes sense to react to a phrase if you don’t even want to just find out what exactly is the difference? if a person is wrong you can correct him and if he is right? from which the question is essentially something to say? to challenge this claim?
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. April 24 2020 14: 40 New
          13
          В ФЦП "Национальная технологическая база" (2007–2011 гг.) был подраздел "Создание и организация производства в Российской Федерации в 2011–2015 годах дизельных двигателей и их компонентов нового поколения". На трёх предприятиях разработаны три линейки современных дизелей: На УДМЗ ДМ-185 (in relation to the fleet: replacement of DM-21 for nuclear submarines), на "Звезде" М-150 (М-507 со "Звезды" ставят на Каракурты и Дюгони, причём М-150 более эффективен по потреблению топлива , чем ДМ-185), in Kolomna D-500 (for fleet 16SD500, the engines of the plant are put on nine projects: 636 and 677, 20380, 22350, 18280, 11711 ...).

          Everyone has one problem. All engine lines were developed with the participation of European partners, who left due to sanctions. Even the question is asked - budget money spent on financing foreign design bureaus, but there is no result. Asian partners cannot offer a quality replacement. They are engaged in localization. Apparently, everyone has their own crankshafts, cylinder blocks, pistons on new developments. I don’t know how anyone with the resource. The main problem is Common Rail. Most of the components are not localized. Not only is this an expensive part, but it is also easily turned off by electronic warfare equipment. Okay, we have them, but how are we with them? Experts say that we can handle the protection.

          In general, there is movement, but the deadlines are again rescheduled. And who is easy now.
          1. trahterist
            trahterist April 28 2020 19: 30 New
            +2
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            В ФЦП "Национальная технологическая база" (2007–2011 гг.) был подраздел "Создание и организация производства в Российской Федерации в 2011–2015 годах дизельных двигателей и их компонентов нового поколения". На трёх предприятиях разработаны три линейки современных дизелей: На УДМЗ ДМ-185 (in relation to the fleet: replacement of DM-21 for nuclear submarines), на "Звезде" М-150 (М-507 со "Звезды" ставят на Каракурты и Дюгони, причём М-150 более эффективен по потреблению топлива , чем ДМ-185), in Kolomna D-500 (for fleet 16SD500, the engines of the plant are put on nine projects: 636 and 677, 20380, 22350, 18280, 11711 ...).

            Everyone has one problem. All engine lines were developed with the participation of European partners, who left due to sanctions. Even the question is asked - budget money spent on financing foreign design bureaus, but there is no result. Asian partners cannot offer a quality replacement. They are engaged in localization. Apparently, everyone has their own crankshafts, cylinder blocks, pistons on new developments. I don’t know how anyone with the resource. The main problem is Common Rail. Most of the components are not localized. Not only is this an expensive part, but it is also easily turned off by electronic warfare equipment. Okay, we have them, but how are we with them? Experts say that we can handle the protection.

            In general, there is movement, but the deadlines are again rescheduled. And who is easy now.

            There is no place for general rail in military equipment!
            Для легковушек и 'паркетных' грузовиков(что с асфальта сьезжают редко) еще потянет, а в экстремальных условиях эта система, извините, экскремент.
            You can’t fix it on your knee, nor the fuel. You can’t fill it.
            Only mechanics in high pressure fuel pump.
            About the divorce of suckers, under the name of the Euro / Tier norm, in profile forums has long been chewed on trifles.
      2. knn54
        knn54 April 24 2020 08: 31 New
        0
        Эти бы слова,да "небожителям" в уши.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 24 2020 22: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: knn54
          Эти бы слова,да "небожителям" в уши.

          halva halva?
      3. 2112vda
        2112vda April 24 2020 09: 07 New
        34
        Послушать Мантурова так он вообще спаситель Отечества. Поршневое моторостроение в России разгромлено реформаторами. Вы пройдитесь по списку моторных заводов и посмотрите сколько из них уже "почили в бозе", а сколько находится в предсмертных судорогах. Вот и для авиации решили использовать автомобильный двигатель от "Ауруса". Экономикой управляют "экономисты-универсалисты" не имеющие опыта практической работы в промышленности. Тут по Аркадию Райкину: "Что они умные такие? Нет, у них просто московская прописка", ещё можно добавить что и высокопоставленные родственники. Если начать серьёзно разбираться что натворили наши реформаторы с российским моторостроением то им светит многократный расстрел через повешенье и утопление в сельском нужнике. Господа реформаторы наконец воочию показали кто такие "враги народа". Мне просто пришлось работать на нескольких моторных заводах и я знаю как уничтожалась промышленность.
        Теперь по танковому двигателю. По мощности танковый дизельный двигатель подошёл к пределу своих возможностей. Посмотрите на проект "Чайка" и увидите что МТО просто "забит". Будущее всё таки за газотурбинными двигателями. Экономичность можно довести то требуемых норм. Стоимость силовой установки определяется коэффициентом партионности. Чем больше будет двигателей тем они будут дешевле. Потом не стоит сбрасывать со счетов ГТД работающих по парогазовому циклу на альтернативных топливах типа КАС.
        1. Alexander mosin
          Alexander mosin April 24 2020 17: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: 2112vda
          По мощности танковый дизельный двигатель подошёл к пределу своих возможностей. Посмотрите на проект "Чайка" и увидите что МТО просто "забит"

          MTU MT 883 V12 diesel to help you. At the moment, it is deformed by 1500 hp. but up to 2200 hp can be opened without problems. But the future, of course, is not for gas turbines, but for electric motors, and very serious work is underway in this direction.
          1. Private-K
            Private-K April 26 2020 08: 56 New
            +5
            Цитата: Alexander Mosin
            MTU MT 883 V12 diesel to help you

            This engine has very high rates.
            But there is one maaalenky problem - it is not reprehensible by the forces of military repair bodies.
            In case of problems, they immediately take it out and send it to the service centers of the manufacturer. Those. only highly qualified, highly paid, select specialists can control it.
      4. antivirus
        antivirus April 24 2020 10: 33 New
        12
        we are again ahead of everyone in the world!
        Manturov was framed (?) And will be transferred to the post of UN Deputy Secretary General for Engine.
        new engines are not so much design and technology, but more a culture of production and operation
        1. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin April 24 2020 11: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: antivirus
          new engines are not so much design and technology, but more a culture of production and operation

          Все же точнее будет не "не столько" и "более", а "не только". и "ещё"
          1. antivirus
            antivirus April 24 2020 18: 36 New
            +1
            Да,пожалуй Вы правы... более культура проектирования, основанная в какой то части(? какой???)на понимании менталитета эксплуатанта и др "-измов культуры"
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 24 2020 08: 41 New
      12
      Probably because it costs several times more, eats fuel, as if not in itself, requiring an increase in internal. tank volume, which makes sense the very idea of ​​a gas turbine engine on a tank, and increases the number of tankers in a military unit. It is effective only at the maximum operating mode, i.e., on an airplane that flies for a long time on cruising mode, but not on a tank, which often thrashes at low speeds, and travels in a variety of modes.
    3. Alekseev
      Alekseev April 24 2020 10: 41 New
      16
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      gas turbine engine than does not suit?

      Главным образом тем, что он из "мира иного" wink
      And it’s easier, because it eats a lot and is much more expensive. To paint its advantages and disadvantages for a long time, especially since everything has been painted for a long time.
      But the article is so-so, for the sake of a fee. The author is far from the topic.
      Что же это За "новые, не имеющими аналогов в мире, двигателями В-92С2"? laughing
      We should ask and know that this engine is just another modernization of the good old B-2. It simply has a large degree of boost due to the use of a more efficient gas turbine boost instead of the drive supercharger in the B-84 engine. It also strengthened the details of the KShM, modified the high-pressure fuel pump, and strengthened the quality control of manufacturing. Despite this, due to increased loads, guarantee resource decreased from 500 to 350 m / h.
      It seems to be not so critical. But this decrease gives a clear signal - a further increase in the power of the bottom unit while maintaining sufficient reliability is impossible. A worthy veteran of many wars has exhausted himself.
      But after all, a long time ago there was a 2B family used on the Octopus, Armata. And it seems to have successfully passed the test. But we are not informed what is good there and what is possibly bad, unfortunately.
      Есть и семейство УТД для средней бронетехники. Про них тоже особо не пишут. Но если УТД-20 с БМП и пр. нам и без свидетельств отлично известен, то про качество его старших братьев УТД-29, УТД-32 можно лишь догадываться. Учитывая, что машины с такими моторами хорошо "идут" на экспорт можно сделать вывод, что дизеля на должном уровне.
      It is disturbing that there were already facts in history when they shoved them into service due to mercenary considerations ... and defamed and did not give good development to the course. Thus, three MBTs appeared in service with the SA, with different MTOs, with a difference in weapons but approximately equal tactically. But factories in various cities worked and the authorities received bonuses.
      1. Vovanya
        Vovanya April 24 2020 11: 16 New
        -5
        Надо задуматься о двигателе с внешним подводом теплоты, в нём рабочее давление в несколько раз выше, и в холод легко заводится, к тому же многотопливный, еще и бесшумный, а если выполнить его роторным, то все характеристики просто "подпрыгнут". Правда, это новая технология, но всё решаемо и даже проще.
      2. D16
        D16 April 24 2020 21: 58 New
        +1
        bottom aggregate

        A typo according to Freud, but in the late 30s it was a mega-unit. Four valves per cylinder with two overhead camshafts per unit! Yes, this is not always found everywhere. But the devil is in the details as always. And the main of these parts is the silumin crankcase and cylinder blocks. By the way, this is the hereditary misfortune of the UTD family. With an increase in the compression ratio, loads increase, causing structural deformation and destruction of the seals. All problems are solved with the improvement of casting quality. Diesel can not be made not from lumindium laughing The author clearly does not know about the AN-1 in the dimension 18x20. He is from birth 1000 hp gave out. After the war, he was put in the form of TB-30B in the IS-7. During the war, cost modifications V-2.
        Thus, three MBTs appeared in service with the SA, with different MTOs, with a difference in weapons but approximately equal tactically. But factories in various cities worked and the authorities received bonuses.

        The point is not in awards, but in geography, logistics and technologies mastered by different corners of the country.
    4. max702
      max702 April 24 2020 13: 59 New
      10
      For engines, this is the old and main problem of our mechanical engineering since the creation of the USSR .. Moreover, if with jet, rocket, atomic and other high-tech everything seems to be less, then with traditional ICE thrash and fumes .. Not a single engine that would be at least at the level of world leaders .. Here is the B-92C2. gives 1000l \ s with a volume of 39l .. And this is our top .. Scania, MAN, Mercedes from 12-16 liters are removed at 500-800l \ s and this is with EURO-6 with a minimum fuel / oil consumption and with a resource of a million km .. Something tells me to reduce the resource and environmental noises they will squeeze 1200-1500 l / s from these engines .. The main lag in our fuel equipment and control electronics .. Is it interesting that our tank engines mastered the Common Reil ramp? But this is the day before yesterday. I’m not talking about the nozzle piezo. Money should be invested and apparently a lot of money .. Now YaMZ and Kamaz, together with the Germans, are trying to launch a new line of world-class engines, God forbid they can do it. But tank engine operators need to think about stop kicking 80 years of diesel with a T-34.
      rs: Although I read the statements of diesel engineers from Chelyabinsk that if they had not squandered money on scams for push-pull diesel engines and tank GTE, a normal diesel engine would have been a long time ago ... Well, this is the case ..
      1. Ponchik78
        Ponchik78 April 24 2020 17: 36 New
        +4
        Well, if you undertook to compare, then compare the comparable. Because comparing a tank diesel with a civilian commercial one is such an occupation. An example of our V-92S2F is, for example, MB 873 Ka-501. So compare them.
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 24 2020 20: 39 New
          +3
          First, make a civilian engine - more difficult, and much.

          Secondly, comparing Russian tank engines with EuroPowerPack is also not a pleasant experience.
          1. mkop
            mkop April 25 2020 10: 13 New
            +2
            Do you have experience designing and developing military and civilian products at the same time? Or are you just talking in theory? Do you know what requirements are imposed on civilian equipment, and which are on military? How does production work in the production of civilian and military equipment? What are the requirements for foreign and ours for example?

            For example, can you tell me why on Western equipment (MAN, DAF, Scania, etc.), when designing a high-pressure fuel pump for a diesel engine, the electromagnet, according to the documentation, ensures operability up to -40 ° C, and at the same time, our Russian civilian equipment MUST work at -50 ° C? You are aware that lowering, for example, the temperature by only 10 ° C narrows you the choice of materials for seals, for example, not only at times, but actually to units of market positions. And then the military come and say, we need to work up to -60 ° C. And there you are.
        2. max702
          max702 April 26 2020 21: 37 New
          +2
          I read comments here .. The feeling that people are raving .. The engine has three main characteristics: power, torque, engine life .. There are even slightly less important fuel consumption per kWh, hp / kg engine weight, EVERYTHING .. Mythical multi-fuel is needed for Pontus and in real life, it is not used, such as underwater driving tanks and BT parachute descent, amphibious BT component and other exotic .. All howls about military diesel engines are direct evidence of incompetence .. Today, technology allows you to create civilian commercial diesel engines of the military level, but I have a claim to tank engines in that they have a tank diesel engine with all the shortcomings much worse than a civilian one! People are you blind chtol? 39l of volume and 1130l \ s return .. Set a task for MAN and it will take you away from 39 l 2000l \ s especially with a resource of 1000-15000 hours .. It’s a shame to admit that polymers in this area are pros .. if .. YES THAT SO! And instead of admitting it and looking for solutions to the problem, some miserable excuses are heard .. For what? What will it give? Thank God the progress in the country is that YaMZ that Kamaz together with the Germans are preparing a new line of engines of a completely world-class level .. It’s up to the tankmen .. Do not prove with foam at the mouth that the king is not naked, but to do it .. To establish production primarily of modern fuel equipment and then a modern engine ..
      2. Elturisto
        Elturisto April 24 2020 20: 03 New
        +5
        I correctly understood that before the creation of the USSR, diesels from RI conquered the whole world?
        As for the comparison, here you have a problem, problems with education. For a tank, torque and long-term power are most important, and a sausage converted cockroach standing like a cast-iron bridge can work at the indicated power of 5-10 minutes.
      3. wert111
        wert111 April 25 2020 09: 54 New
        +5
        Euro diesels run on super clean diesel fuel. Tank should eat all that they pour. What are piezo injectors? I think the designer deliberately went to reduce returns for the sake of vitality and unpretentiousness to fuel ..
      4. MMX
        MMX April 25 2020 16: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: max702
        For engines, this is the old and main problem of our engineering since the creation of the USSR .. Moreover, if with jet, rocket, atomic and other high-tech, we seem to be getting less and less with traditional ICE thrash and burn ...


        Right. With engines in the USSR, everything was traditionally sad (both military and civilian).

        Scania, MAN, Mercedes from 12-16 liters are removed at 500-800l / s and this is with EURO-6 with a minimum consumption of fuel / oil and with a resource of a million km .. Something tells me they have reduced the resource and environmental noises from these engines squeeze 1200-1500l \ s ..


        Invalid comparison. It has long been proven that civilian ICEs are not suitable for armored vehicles.

        Interesting Common Reil ramp our tank engines mastered?

        I don’t know tank ones, but they mastered in Barnaul (but for civilian ICE).

        A tank engine should think enough to kick 80 years of diesel with a T-34.


        This should have been done 60-70 years ago.
    5. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 24 2020 16: 37 New
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      And what does not suit a gas turbine engine?

      Harder, more expensive, requires more qualified (more expensive) service, eats more expensive fuel, and is even more gluttonous ...
    6. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft April 24 2020 18: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: The same Lech
      And what does not suit a gas turbine engine?

      https://topwar.ru/33172-chto-dlya-tanka-luchshe-gazovaya-turbina-ili-dizel.html

      Roads in operation, compared to diesel ....
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 24 2020 06: 24 New
    +4
    It is strange to read about the uniqueness of the V-92C2 engine and no less strange to read about 500 tons of combat boats with diesel-electric power plants. PMO boats do not count
  3. Free wind
    Free wind April 24 2020 06: 28 New
    +5
    Yes, we need them for a hundred years !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. Free wind
      Free wind April 24 2020 06: 29 New
      +3
      not a joke.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox April 24 2020 19: 50 New
        +7
        We need, we need!
        AND MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS AS NEEDED!
        Только ответьте, пожалуйста, почему это за последние 30 лет, за которые производство оружия просто ПРЫГНУЛО вперёд, никто из олигархов (в чьих руках сосредоточена вся креативная промышленность страны) даже не подумал предложить ни своих услуг, ни своих мозгов, ни своих денег, ни своих КБ для того, чтобы заложить основы армейского и флотского двигателестроения - ведь этот "секрет" уже торчит в печёнках сотен тысяч (если не миллионов!) двигателистов (это за 100 лет существования современной России!)
        There is nothing to nationalize - it’s too late to start from scratch, it’s too late to create a school, there’s nobody to stand at the machine ...
        And why can the authorities on this topic NOTHING say anything positive to us?
        1. max702
          max702 April 28 2020 00: 02 New
          0
          Any of our oligarchs who begins to do something useful for the country will immediately cease to be such a thing .. It’s explained to them popularly .. They showed everyone dull on the example of Deripaska, but now Tinkov and others .. So earlier there isn’t at all, namely, NOW the possibilities are just beginning to appear ..
          1. hydrox
            hydrox April 28 2020 07: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: max702
            namely, NOW opportunities are just beginning to appear ..

            Well, here: I thought that creating the conditions and OPPORTUNITIES for the economic growth of the country is the state’s first and main concern, but it turns out that at the end of the year 30 this government is only beginning to erupt.
            Sadly ... crying
            1. max702
              max702 April 28 2020 10: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: hydrox
              Quote: max702
              namely, NOW opportunities are just beginning to appear ..

              Well, here: I thought that creating the conditions and OPPORTUNITIES for the economic growth of the country is the state’s first and main concern, but it turns out that at the end of the year 30 this government is only beginning to erupt.
              Sadly ... crying

              So yes! Nothing that our country has been under occupation for 30 years? What kind of open speech can we talk about in a country where the enemy rules? After 91 years, they wrote a constitution for US and made us fulfill it by placing the people devoted to them in key posts .. Partisanism is good, but it can be successful only if there is a motherland in the distance that will support and will come sooner or later .. And who will support and will come to us? None! All by ourselves .. On this they sat grumbling and waiting .. Today there is just the opportunity to break out of weakened control due to the deadlock of the world system .. And the referendum on changes to the constitution is the first but most important step leaving the yoke after 91 years ..
  4. Dart2027
    Dart2027 April 24 2020 06: 54 New
    13
    I would just answer the boy that this film is fiction from beginning to end.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 24 2020 07: 52 New
      +4
      And not the best movie
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 April 24 2020 09: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: Zaurbek
        not the most successful

        Well, here is a matter of taste. I will not name a masterpiece, but it was interesting to watch.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 11: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Zaurbek
        And not the best movie

        Because you did not understand him.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 24 2020 12: 27 New
          0
          Искусство должно быть понятно массам и доводить до них правильную историческую и техническую информацию. Мягко говоря, не "Спасти рядового Райана" и не "Горячий снег".
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 12: 47 New
            +2
            Quote: Zaurbek
            Art must be understood by the masses

            I agree. But the masses also need to be pulled up to the understanding of the simplest, and not wait when they decoy decoy.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek April 24 2020 12: 49 New
              +1
              If the film is not interesting and reliable (at least technically) no one will watch and delve into ... This is the trouble of all modern war films ...
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 13: 13 New
                +9
                Quote: Zaurbek
                If the film is not interesting and reliable (at least technically) no one will watch and delve into ... This is the trouble of all modern war films ...

                Как Вы не можете понять, что фильм - аллегория. Как раз он и отличается от современных фильмов о войне. В таком фильме нет необходимости, и даже напротив, придерживаться точности в технических и других моментах (мехвод получил ожоги несовместимые с жизнью и выжил). В данном фильме главное - идея - фашизм жив. Как Вам, в худ. фильме, это сказать? Просто некий герой фильма должен был произнести эти слова? Это было бы смотрительно, убедительно? А Шахназаров "оживил" мехвода (олицетворение непобедимого советского воина) и заставил Тигра, олицетворения фашизма, прятаться в болоте (жизни). Даже засорение пушки и последующий ее разрыв, - крайне невероятная ситуация (имею в виду подобное засорение) говорит о том, что фашизм живуч не потому, что РККА плохо старалась. Что возникают ситуации, когда Тигр выходит из болота и наносит удар, и очень болезненный, и Шахназаров это показал в своем фильме.
                1. Aag
                  Aag April 24 2020 16: 47 New
                  0
                  Очень интересное "прочтение"...
                  But most of the audience, for sure, view the picture from a different angle.
                  1. AUL
                    AUL April 24 2020 18: 12 New
                    +2
                    Но, почему-то боевики со Шварценегером не разбирают с точки зрения правдоподобия! Там думать не надо! Он - хороший парень, а его враги - парни плохие. И все ясно. А у Шахназарова - думать надо. В нем смысл в сюжете, в идее, а не в "экшне". И эту идею понять надо!
                    1. notingem
                      notingem April 25 2020 17: 36 New
                      0
                      Фильм " Белый тигр" смотрел много раз.Очень нравиться.Современное понятие достоверности понять сложно.Обычно достоверно это когда герои: зверюга особист. репрессированный полковник.блатной еврей.и немка учительница до которой все домогаются".Причем даже зеки одеты с иголочки.
      3. garri-lin
        garri-lin April 24 2020 22: 46 New
        -1
        The usual mystical action. A mixture of Infernal bunker and Transformers on watchability.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek April 24 2020 23: 03 New
          0
          But lagging behind views
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin April 24 2020 23: 17 New
            0
            From what? From the infernal bunker? I don’t think so. When the film came out it was watched by almost all my friends. Grannies in the yard were sitting and discussing. There was a lot of TV advertising. Maybe for this. Although to be honest, in recent years only one normal film has been shot on the topic of tanks. Tanks. And the rest smells a little. Especially Invincible. It is very difficult to teach a child the good on the example of such films.
  5. avia12005
    avia12005 April 24 2020 06: 58 New
    11
    We need a normal minister like air, not Manturov.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins April 24 2020 07: 17 New
      11
      We, like air, need so much ... (And if you also change all the TOP managers), it seems that we live in a vacuum, or even worse, in an actively harmful environment!
      1. hydrox
        hydrox April 24 2020 13: 58 New
        0
        Oh!
        Somehow it turns out strange: you get the impression, but at the same time, ALL OTHERS just live in all this ...
        Вдобавок у Вас немного вариантов:: или Вы присоединяетесь к нам (кто здесь на земле живёт), либо как-то ухитриться и попасть в заоблачные выси, где живут уже "небожители" (внешне они похожи на людей, а внутреннее содержание для нас никогда понятным не станет ... lol )
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins April 24 2020 14: 26 New
          +6
          If I were a celestial, we would not have encountered here ...
          I'm just still working. In fact, not in a remote place and get paid for it.
          И "жирка" накопил месяца на 4-5 из дому даже не выходить.
          And in the winter I went to rest over the hill, and three years ago on business trips to foreign countries ....
          But, as you can see, I’m sliding quietly ... And not of my own free will - I’m doing a lot to stay afloat. Only changes in my life began exactly in 2014 .... So who should I blame?
          1. hydrox
            hydrox April 24 2020 19: 01 New
            +4
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            If I were a celestial, we would not have encountered here ...

            But we did not collide, but met in absentia.
            But now I don’t work anymore and it doesn’t make me happy at all, but not because I don’t have enough pensions, but because I don’t see a suitable application of my strength either through a telescope or through a microscope (I’m from former scientists, you see )
            So I’m thinking: either to master the home-brewing (theoretically ready at the level of Ph.D.), or to engage in the carboxylic acid combustion (also mastering several tens of thousands of characters).
            But your mood is completely minor and is there really no transfer of arrows to another path with a different employment vector?
            Good luck to you.
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins April 24 2020 19: 34 New
              -1
              I already did a lot of downshifting in my life. He gave up his career, slightly changed his profile of work (I work in construction companies). I just remember how it was seven years ago! The propagandists will not convince me that all these idiots are present for my own good !!!
  6. Amateur
    Amateur April 24 2020 07: 18 New
    10
    by decision of the uncles who understood the tanks, he was recognized as the best tank of the Second World War and much more. But Karen Shakhnazarov intervened with a lot of burned best tanks on the screen.

    To explain our story to modern children on the basis of modern films about the Second World War, in which one absurdity alternates with another stupidity, and sometimes with frank glorification of betrayal and humiliation of heroism, is not the most wise lesson. fool
    1. Eug
      Eug April 24 2020 07: 42 New
      -1
      Still, people win, not tanks ...
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 11: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: Eug
        Still, people win, not tanks ...

        Beautiful, but far from reality.
        You are with the newspaper, and the adversary is with brass knuckles.
        You are on PO-2 and Basurman on ME-109.
        And so on.
        1. Eug
          Eug April 24 2020 12: 41 New
          +2
          I do not advocate opposing brass knuckles with a newspaper. I perfectly understand that the worse the equipment, the less% of people will be able to win it and the more there will be deaths. I am against the idea that if a technique is worse, then you cannot win on it, and for finding ways to win, even on the worst technique. I repeat once again - the better the technique, the more of its will remain alive. And in the end, all the same, people win, and I with both legs so that we have very high-quality equipment.
      2. Aag
        Aag April 24 2020 16: 50 New
        0
        But we are now talking about technology, specifically about diesels.
  7. reader65
    reader65 April 24 2020 07: 22 New
    +6
    Here's what we need:

    The walls of the main temple of the Armed Forces of Russia in the Patriot Park near Moscow will be decorated with mosaics depicting Vladimir Putin and Sergei Shoigu.
    1. kepmor
      kepmor April 24 2020 07: 32 New
      +8
      Cyril !!! ... then they forgot Cyril !!! ...
  8. kepmor
    kepmor April 24 2020 07: 23 New
    25
    and how much pathos ... we do not have the right to lag behind again ...
    да мы никогда даже рядом не стояли с "дизельное элитой" (германией, японией, швецией, финляндией и штатами)...двигателестроение - это в первую очередь передовые технологии, которых даже в советские времена не было...
    I’m never a tanker, but for the fleet I’ll say ... our ship diesel engines for mechanics are worse than hard labor ... eternal idle talk with them ... especially with high-speed ones ...
    it was not without reason that a joke was born that all hands were washed after a latrine, and the mechanics before ...
    помню, когда один из моих командиров БЧ-5 перевелся на БДК польской постройки, то он просто офигевал от службы в "райских кущах"...проблем с дизелями, котлами, насосами , электрооборудованием ну просто никаких... всё работает настолько надёжно, что обслуживание доставляет только удовольствие...
    I don’t believe Manturov’s verbiage from the word at all ... not the level of technology we have to jump above our ears ...
    1. Jager
      Jager April 24 2020 07: 47 New
      +9
      You, of course, did not take into account the most reliable and powerful diesel engines of our diesel locomotives. As the head of the depot said, for the sake of saving from American diesel engines, after that they pour oil and ours still work on it. Or how with the coolant drained from the system, our modern 2TE has been rattling for two hours and with minimal damage)
      The problem is different. As always, crumbs reach specific performers and they save. In Soviet times, the diesel test shop at one of the mash plants worked in three shifts, but is now barely alive.
      1. kepmor
        kepmor April 24 2020 08: 24 New
        +6
        my friend in 99 on caddilake-deville (8 pots) from sheremetev to those. center on Aviamotornaya drove without any cooling ...
        pulled the lower radiator pipe ... almost 12 liters on the asphalt ... rings in those. center, they say that it can go another 100 km, only keep the speed no more than 80 ... drove it, changed it, added it ... another 2 years left without problems ...
        1. Jager
          Jager April 24 2020 13: 55 New
          +2
          A modern 1.2-liter turbo engine overheats even in normal mode))
          For example, a friend bought Moskvich-408 for restoration. One problem - warmed up. Native radiator, patched-patched. They climbed into the engine, it turned out - there was a defect on the cylinder head - some cooling channels were in a cloud of aluminum, the casting at the plant was simply not mechanically processed to the end. So he is 40 years old and left with a half-not working cooling system. This is the technique! good
          1. Aag
            Aag April 24 2020 18: 06 New
            0
            "...современный турбомоторчик 1.2 литра ".
            Are you talking about diesel?
            I’ve been operating a turbodiesel for the fourth year, however, 1,4l (1ND-TV), 76l.s., it’s unrealistic to overheat, with a working condition, as well as warm up without load at low temperatures ... So compare the liter capacities, -u M- 408 1,4 50hp (55 for export). Torques. Motor resources. Still, almost half a century has been sharing these engines.
            No, I really respect the M-408. I learned to drive it, from the 5th grade. For more than 10 years he (M-408IE) lived in the family ...
            By the way, the Muscovite engines, who don’t know, are also from an adversary: ​​they grew up from Opel-Kadet. They were widely used on small boats, and as generator drives. Last year, a friend got a new MZMA-408, from conservation, with spare parts, on the NAC, -Restored his father's M-403.
            1. Jager
              Jager April 25 2020 13: 26 New
              +1
              so 408 yes, has a distant relationship with the Germans. The 412th is already completely its own development.
              1. Aag
                Aag April 25 2020 18: 04 New
                0
                "412-й уже полностью своя разработка."
                In confirmation of your words:
                1)
                Успех М-412 на автопробегах Лондон-Мехико,и некоторые другие(широко освещенные в Советские годы),(см.фильм "Гонщики"-Леонов,Янковский)
                2) I have a friend, a graduate of MAMI, who claims that in the year 82-83 the Germans came to the AZLK, asked for a license for the dviglo 412. They threatened to squeeze 150 hp from it. And that is interesting for the topic under discussion , - only due to the quality of the parts used, a better selection (weight, size).
                За достоверность не ручаюсь,но ,вполне возможно.Ибо,не помню номер журнала " ЗР""(За рулём),Стасис Брундза,там писал,что для для тренировок,техничек используют ВАЗ-21011 -13.Где мощность увеличена до 90 л.с(+-) только за счёт подбора деталей,из числа заводских,конвейерных.Просто представте разброс параметров,-как причину,-культуру производства.
                Therefore, when people here on the forum claim that this or that engine ... is not a fountain, I think that maybe it was designed not badly ... The execution let us down. (?)
            2. Jager
              Jager April 25 2020 13: 26 New
              0
              I'm talking about gasoline from VAG, whose resource is 80-100 t. To.
              1. Aag
                Aag April 25 2020 18: 16 New
                0
                VAG-You, apparently, about Volkswagen ...
                Сам в шоке...Не,Гольф 2,3-го поколения,-сказка,в своем классе(ИМХО)...Про современные:(не юзал,-по наблюдениям)-,китайский "Лифан",- не меньший функционал за меньшие деньги при сопоставимой качестве... hi
        2. polar fox
          polar fox April 24 2020 23: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: kepmor
          my friend in 99 on caddilake-deville (8 pots)

          EMNIP, his pots work through one, just for this case, at an economical (50 mph) speed ... the firmware is like this for dvigla.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 24 2020 16: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Jager
        You, of course, did not take into account the most reliable and powerful diesel engines of our diesel locomotives.

        Тепловозные движки хороши для тепловозов. Как только они попадают на надводные корабли - усё пропало. ГЭУ "Стерегущего" с коломенскими тепловозными движками через семь лет доводки всё равно горела.
        1. Jager
          Jager April 25 2020 13: 28 New
          0
          Marine engines are not as loaded as diesel engines. There are no such shock loads.
      3. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. April 24 2020 18: 05 New
        +2
        What kind of diesel are you talking about? Rulers D-49 silt and 2-stroke 10D100, which ate butter as if in themselves and smoked mercilessly?
        1. Jager
          Jager April 25 2020 13: 30 New
          0
          "двухтактники" 10Д100 уже давно в музеях как раз из-за высокого расхода масла и топлива. Но это вина не завода, а самой схемы двигателя. Потому двухтактные моторы сейчас нигде, кроме газонокосилок не используют. Жрет больше, коптит нещадно, но КПД выше)
          1. Jager
            Jager April 25 2020 13: 37 New
            0
            KZ also produces modern D500. Just for ships and for diesel locomotives and for power plants.
          2. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. April 25 2020 14: 08 New
            +1
            Smoked yet. On the Northern road, on the Volga, on the Moscow. M62 with a two-stroke 14D40 is also enough on the Russian road network.
          3. savelii1805
            savelii1805 9 August 2020 13: 21 New
            0
            Yes, hell there. They still meet. Worked as a diesel tester at the Ussuriysk locomotive-repair plant. Shaitan-machine that still 10 did-100 fuck ... Xia ... Only PDG is worse than him. The current 1A9DG diesel engines and their series are much better And citizens commenting on nichrome do not understand diesel engines - the main difficulty in diesel engine construction is the manufacture of a crankshaft. There are tolerances for the shaft journals in hundreds of mm. It is not a problem to cut it off, the problem is to grind it, it is precisely surface treatment technology that is needed for such tolerances. servicemen from MAN, worked through the frame neck on 12K90MS. 3 weeks this work lasted.
    2. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. April 24 2020 10: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: kepmor
      да мы никогда даже рядом не стояли с "дизельное элитой" (германией, японией, швецией, финляндией и штатами)...двигателестроение - это в первую очередь передовые технологии, которых даже в советские времена не было...

      In many respects they are right, but it is not necessary to generalize.
      По поводу "дизельной элиты".
      Germany - yes.
      USA - once - yes, today - yes, it clings ...
      Japan is trying.
      Sweden - isolated cases.
      Finland is a curiosity of history and economics.
      USSR - YES!
      Национальный первый успех - дизели "Миноги" - первые четырехтактные реверсивные - От завода Нобеля в СПб. Кстати, не очень надежные и сложные в обслуживании. Но дизель-электрические подводные лодки Россия создала! И было это во времена немецких лодок с керосиновыми моторами.

      The second success was organized by A.D. Charomsky. It was his work that justified the future B-2 and M-50. That's just these engines of different dimensions for the uninitiated in the pictures, like two drops of water ...
      When the tank theme arrived in Kharkov, there were 15/18 diesel engines for tractors and 4 hp in 50 cylinders. And literally after 6 years, with the same dimension in 12 cylinders there were already 500 hp.
      It was a miracle that no one could repeat for a long time.
      By the way, Daimler-Benz also failed to quickly create something similar in mass.

      The aviation version with a dimension of 18/20 could not be debugged for a long time. Until you guessed to convert it to sea. Here, cooling is a little easier ...
      Diesels of the M-50 family have served the fleet for many decades, without them there would have been no small ships, high-speed and winged ...
      Similarly, the M-500 family with dozens of cylinders dimension 16/17 star-shaped design. It was these engines that provided speed advantages to small warships of the post-war generation.
      Моторы типа М-50 и М-500 сделали на заводе "Звезда".
      И, чтобы было понятно про ресурс и дымность... Как-то примерно в нулевые была демонстрация кораблика с моторами "Звезды" на котором присутствовали представители западных фирм. И один из них свысока... мол дымит... На что представитель "Звезды" спросил: - Какой еще двигатель может обеспечить этому кораблю скорость более 50 уз? Дальше была тишина...

      Следующий успех - завод "Русский дизель" - дизель размерностью 23/30 с противоположно-движущимися поршнями, двухрядный. Создан под габариты машинного отделения корабля примерно в 1000 т.
      Ksstati about reliability. This two-stroke machine was chosen precisely for reliability for installation at nuclear power plants as emergency diesel generators.
      In Chernobyl, everything was bad, and only diesel generators started up and worked out about three resources ....

      The successes of the Kolomensky Zavod will not fit here ... They are also world-class.

      Another thing is that you can kill everything good.
      And you can dream in different ways.
      What actually happened to us in the 1990s.
      1. kepmor
        kepmor April 24 2020 11: 38 New
        +6
        я конечно же не дизелист, но даже моё ущербно-минерское образование и 15 лет "на железе" позволяет судить о качестве таких агрегатов, как 504 и 507А с семейством дизель-генераторов ДГ-500/300/200...
        even adjusted for the handshake of ship oil masters, still the quality is below average ... not an arbitrary break of the connecting rods and crumbling cylinder rings are quite ordinary events ... Injection pumps with oil pumps were also not reliable ...
        Yes, and the engine life is negligible ... 2500 for 507 and 5000 for DGshek ... but in reality, not a single unit has survived ...
        and yet ... all of these 50s development units ... curtain ...
        1. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. April 24 2020 12: 45 New
          0
          Quote: kepmor
          Yes, and the engine life is negligible ... 2500 for 507 and 5000 for DGshek ... but in reality, not a single unit has survived ...
          and yet ... all of these 50s development units ... curtain ...

          The resource is small. This is a charge for the specific gravity.
          Но когда-то при этом малом ресурсе дизели "Звезды" показывали высокую надежность...
          ... ??? ...
          I imagine the surprise of many.
          In addition, conveyor production with the complex design of star-shaped machines ensured a low cost of horsepower.
          The chief designer, Yakovlev, somewhere in the 1960s, suggested these engines for the sake of economic benefit replace them with Kolomenskoye and other medium-speed diesel engines ...
          I myself understand that this is an excess ...
          But there is no point in bending it in the opposite direction.
          The 1990s were not organized by diesel engineers.
          And in today's conditions ... further interjection without technical specifics ...
          В сравнении с газовыми турбинами, эти дизели "Звезды" сверхэкономичны и дешевы, как спички. И по ресурсу вполне...
      2. Jager
        Jager April 24 2020 13: 59 New
        +1
        Ныне Коломенский завод это больше тень того советского КЗ... Хотя тоже что-то пытаются. Но "эффективные менеджеры" и свистопляска с управлением не внушают оптимизма.
        1. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. April 24 2020 15: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Jager
          Now Kolomensky Zavod is more a shadow of that Soviet KZ ...

          You can agree with this, if you really understand how the Kolomna plant and its units worked in different cities, fleet bases ...
          Ship diesels were with continuous design and technological support.
          According to one of the old engines that have already gone down in history: 25 upgrades in 32 years of operation!
          .
          But today, if it were not for Kolomna, we did not have ships ... Only small ones and boats.
          I am sure there will be a series of about 20-30 ships - Motors will bring the Kolomna.
          And on single copies, a complex design can not be quickly and cheaply brought.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 24 2020 17: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Sergey S.
        Национальный первый успех - дизели "Миноги" - первые четырехтактные реверсивные - От завода Нобеля в СПб. Кстати, не очень надежные и сложные в обслуживании. Но дизель-электрические подводные лодки Россия создала! И было это во времена немецких лодок с керосиновыми моторами.

        И чем этот первый успех кончился? Былинным отказом с "Барсами"?
        1320 hp diesel engines for the first boat “Bars” were ordered to the German concern “F. Krupp ”(shipyard“ Germany ”), for the next two - to the factory“ Felser & Co. ”in Riga. The diesel plant for the fourth boat was to be manufactured by the Baltic Shipyard, which mastered their production using German technology.
        The war prevented the supply of diesel engines ordered in Germany, and the St. Petersburg Ludwig Nobel plant was not able to quickly master the production of large-capacity diesel engines. Under these conditions, the ministry was forced to order the installation of the first 11 Bars boats of 250 hp diesel engines developed by the Kolomensky Zavod, as well as diesel engines removed from the Amur gunboats of the Shkval type. Four more submarines were supposed to install diesel engines (420 hp), purchased in America from the company “New London”. This, of course, worsened the most important tactical and technical elements of boats in comparison with the technical conditions, but there was no other way. And only in the last three submarines was it planned to install full-time 1320-horsepower engines, the production of which was to be mastered by that time by the Ludwig Nobel plant.

        Quote: Sergey S.
        Моторы типа М-50 и М-500 сделали на заводе "Звезда".
        And to make it clear about the resource and smokiness ...

        And to make it clear about the design:

        112 cylinders per engine. And on small ships they put up to three pieces.
        336 pots ... not worth the gratitude, warhead-5, please contact again. smile
        1. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. April 24 2020 17: 28 New
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          1320 hp diesel engines for the first boat “Bars” were ordered to the German concern “F. Krupp ”(shipyard“ Germany ”), for the next two - to the factory“ Felser & Co. ”in Riga.

          Where does this information come from?
          It was different.

          Крупп или Фельдзер, насколько помню, делал дизель - генераторы для линкоров типа "Севастополь".

          Моторы для "Барсов" в 1320 л.с. не получились. Но их делал Нобель.
          At first they could not make crankshafts - all the best Russian plants refused to help Nobel: Putilovsky, Metallic, Kharkov ...
          The shafts ordered Vickers ...
          Всего на двуз "Барсах" стояли такие моторы. Но 1320 л.с. они не выдали... задыхались...
          Really gave about 700 hp
          I agree that it was a failure.
          But motors up to 500 hp Our factories did.
          А у "Миноги" были по 120 л.с. - и это был реальный успех.
        2. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. April 24 2020 17: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          112 cylinders per engine. And on small ships they put up to three pieces.
          336 pots ... not worth the gratitude, warhead-5, please contact

          This is understandable.
          112 cylinders is a unique unit, also with a gearbox.
          A repair is only aggregate.
          And units in warehouses, ready for replacement ...
          It was? With rare exceptions.
          As an example, 1124 - in the 1990s, when turbine resources ran out, served for years under 507.
          And what about gas turbines?
          Do they really have more resources? Or are they moderate in the destruction of fuel?

          An alternative is the installation of engines of any kind of companies and ... a decrease in the speed of the ship or an increase in displacement with all the consequences ...
          This was understood before, but for the sake of combat qualities, the warhead-5 suffered ...
          About the horrors of service in the warhead-5 in the know. This, of course, is an argument ... In peacetime.
      4. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 25 2020 02: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Sergey S.
        But Russia has created diesel-electric submarines! And it was during the time of German boats with kerosene engines.

        Some kind of direct Narnia, you read, the feeling that Russia is actually the first in the engine industry, the Germans smoke aside .. How many engines does the M500 series take, 80 years ?? What engines, when the last 20 years have been systematically destroyed engineering and competition in the high-tech segment? But in the early 2000s everything was more or less, there was growth, until the Chezovs took everything in their hands. Motors were needed and demand in the 140 millionth country was and is, but there are no conditions to invent and create, or at least copy and deploy production. But the time of diesel-gasoline engines is passing, electric motors are replacing, the future of hydrogen is not clear, but in the near future there are no alternatives to the battery-electric motor bundle and it may turn out that while a lot of money, effort and time are spent on diesel engines, the competition will completely switch to Plug in Hybrid. I’m even willing to bet that the replacement for Abramsu, Leo2, Leclerc will be on electric motors. In general, electric motors with batteries, of different weight categories, are the future product of mass demand, from robotic vacuum cleaners to heavy equipment and even aircraft, and why shouldn't the state finance a large-scale program? After all, electric motors put the whole world on an equal footing, the Germans start all over again with the Japanese too, the Chinese are crashing, and Elon Musk has granted more than 3000 patents on electric cars for free use and why not Russian craftsmen, and maybe KB to do this with the financial assistance of the state? The main thing is not to whine about the past and see soberly the present, to understand the challenges.
        1. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. April 25 2020 03: 14 New
          0
          Цитата: Alexander Mosin
          Some kind of Narnia, you read, the feeling that Russia is actually the first in the engine industry, the Germans smoke aside ..

          Do not distort.
          But so far, our ships mainly run on old Star engines ....
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          M500 series engines how many, 80 years ??

          One of the knowledgeable experts at the beginning of the zero one to one of the dashing subversives of authorities explained that over 45 years about 2000 changes were made to the motors.
          Among them were, of course, such as the pipe on the left — the pipe on the right, but there were also changes in the bushings, pistons, heads, and air supply systems. fuel equipment ... What is any part, system, component parts - and it will be improved with a high degree of probability in comparison with the initial one.
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          What engines, when the last 20 years have been systematically destroyed engineering and competition in the high-tech segment?

          Then I agree ... But I wrote about it myself ...
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          But in the early 2000s everything was more or less, there was growth, until the Chezovs took everything in their hands. Motors were needed and demand in the 140 millionth country was and is, but there are no conditions to invent and create, or at least copy and deploy production.

          Copying is often harder than doing it.
          Copying is obtained only when the corresponding technological equipment is purchased with the license.
          Today in Russia it is extremely difficult to reproduce a diesel engine of another design.
          Even simpler constructions cannot be reproduced well.
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          But the time of diesel-gasoline engines is passing, electric motors are replacing, the future of hydrogen is not clear, but in the near future there are no alternatives to the battery-electric motor bundle and it may turn out that while a lot of money, effort and time are spent on diesel engines, the competition will completely switch to Plug in Hybrid.

          DAM came up with this for us ... Thank God, then the President explained to him at a press conference that electricity must first be generated by heat engines ...
          Electro is not the primary engine that gives movement, but the transmission of mechanical energy from the primary engine to the propulsion - the propeller of the ship or the wheel of the car.
          Direct conversion to ECG is expensive, not economical and very harmful ... Or rather, sooooo expensive.
          [quote = Alexander MosinI’m even bet that Abramsu, Leo2, Leclerc will be replaced by electric motors. In general, electric motors with batteries, of different weight categories, are the future product of mass demand, from robotic vacuum cleaners to heavy equipment and even aircraft, and why shouldn't the state finance a large-scale program? [/ quote]
          Again DAM tried, smart people stopped him in time ....
          Hybrid installations on military vehicles have already appeared, but the main tank with a hybrid installation will have low marching speed. Or it will be much heavier - diesel or gas turbine engine + electric generator + drive + control system + electric motors on moving axles.
          And the planes ...
          No need to listen to unscrupulous lobbyists of electrical engineering.
          For more than 120 years they have been mocking common sense.
          To be clear:
          in 1900 there were more electric vehicles. than gasoline cars, the first electric car broke the speed record of 100 km / h ...
          And where is the progress of electric cars ???
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          After all, electric motors put the whole world on an equal footing, the Germans start all over again with the Japanese too, the Chinese are crashing, and Elon Musk has granted more than 3000 patents on electric cars for free use and why not Russian craftsmen, and maybe KB to do this with the financial assistance of the state?

          Well, if it came to Mask, then we will launch an unsuitable marriage into space ... And then we’ll process state contracts for manure.
          Quote: Alexander Mosin
          The main thing is not to whine about the past and see soberly the present, to understand the challenges.

          And I wish you the same.
          I'm talking about the technique of the post-war time ...
          And then you generally about the ancient idea of ​​electric traction ...
          1. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 25 2020 14: 23 New
            -1
            Quote: Sergey S.
            Thank God, then the President explained to him at a press conference that electricity must first be generated by heat engines ...


            Well, since the president explained, he is a great specialist in everything. True, people who know his conclusions often cause bewilderment, or laughter. In Germany, over 20 years from 3 to more than 50% of the energy is extracted from windmills, the sun and other environmentally friendly methods. The Germans received a Nobel Prize for using solar energy even at night. They use bent mirrors that heat the oil in the tubes, the tubes in turn transport the oil to storage, where it stays hot at night. A pair of large stations in northern Africa could provide Europe and Africa with endless energy. And this is only one way. Of course, while the geopolitical situation does not allow such megaprojects to be implemented, they will come to this in the future, and in the near future. Oil and gas are a thing of the past, especially oil, thanks to electric vehicles. American motorists spend the most on oil, more than the entire Chinese economy, but they are gradually shifting to economical engines and electric cars.


            Quote: Sergey S.
            but the main tank with a hybrid setup will have low marching speed. Or it will be much heavier - diesel or gas turbine engine + electric generator + drive + control system + electric motors on moving axles.


            These are all your theories, in reality, the electric motor is much more effective in all respects than the internal combustion engine. The only thing that rested on was the battery, the generator in the case of a hybrid, the size and reliability of all this. But how the success of Tesla shows the future of electric motors. Already, electric cars have almost reached the range of ordinary cars, and the new Tesla promise with a significant increase in range and a shorter charge.

            Quote: Sergey S.
            Well, if it came to Mask, then we will launch an unsuitable marriage into space ... And then we’ll process state contracts for manure.


            Is Musk government contracts gobbling up, or is marriage doing ?? In general, it is not clear what you wanted to say. But in relation to the Mask in Russia, for all the nonsense and lies that are being poured on him, it is not clear for what reason, apparently, not soon the Russian Federation will become the place where innovations and technologies of the future are emerging.
            1. Sergey S.
              Sergey S. April 25 2020 15: 31 New
              +1
              Цитата: Alexander Mosin
              These are all your theories, in reality, the electric motor is much more effective in all respects than the internal combustion engine.

              You studied the laws of conservation and conversion of energy ???

              The last attempt of admonition.
              If all cars are replaced with electric cars, trying to charge them at night, then the capacity of all power plants in the world will not be enough to charge the battery.
              The environmental damage of windmills to fauna is greater. than from the internal combustion engine, provided that the cars do not drive en masse through forests and fields.
              As an example of the development of green energy it is already necessary to put not Germany, but China ...
              Germany tried - tried, but China is doing massively ...
    3. AUL
      AUL April 24 2020 18: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: kepmor
      ... we don’t have the level of technology to jump above our ears ...

      In order to have an appropriate level of technology, it is necessary to have an appropriate machinery. And, since our machine tool industry has been ruined for a long time and reliably, dreaming about technology is unproductive.
  9. kig
    kig April 24 2020 07: 27 New
    +4
    Some kind of author's division of ships by type of EU. Took and shared.
  10. mvg
    mvg April 24 2020 07: 27 New
    11
    As usual, the author writes that he does not understand. Everything is far-fetched ... ears
  11. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
    Aristarkh Lyudvigovich April 24 2020 07: 30 New
    +5
    If you take the T-90M "Breakthrough" - the heart of the tank is a modified engine V-2 of the T-34, the development of which began in 1931. In 1941, the B-2 was modernized and received the name B-2-34. During the war, V-2IS (aka V-2-10), V-2-34M (aka V-34), V-2-44 (aka V-44) and V-11- were developed and started to be produced IS-3. In addition to improving the characteristics of serial production, the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant also carried out development work, the result of which was a preliminary design of the 850-horsepower B-7 in 1954 and the B12-7 (A-7) with a capacity of 1000 hp. in 1956. The latter was tested in 1959 in a heavy tank Object 770 and a model of a missile tank Object 282. Then, due to transmission and chassis problems, the experimental T-10M (Object 272) with an 800-horsepower V12-6F engine (A- 6F). Finally, in 1962-1963. experiments were carried out with multi-fuel V-12-6BM. For several decades after the war, in addition to V-12 diesel engines, the family was replenished with tank engines V-45, V-46, V-54, V-55, V-58, V-59, V-84, V-85, V-88 , V-90, V-92, V-92S2F (V-93) and their various modifications, both serial, produced mainly at ChTZ, and experienced. V-92S2F is a modern Russian tank diesel engine with a capacity of 1130 hp, which is installed on modern Russian battle tanks T-72B3, T-90AM, T-90M, T-90MS.
    1. Jager
      Jager April 24 2020 14: 02 New
      0
      Если так рассуждать, то и Форд "Фокус" - это глубокая модернизация модели Форд Т. Или "Газель" - это переработка "полуторки" времён войны.
      1. Alexander mosin
        Alexander mosin April 26 2020 00: 46 New
        -1
        If the lorry has the same frame, body and engine block as the Gazelle, then yes. But we know that in Gazelle there is nothing from one and a half. But the V-92S2F has the same block as the ancient, at that time ingenious, engine, that is, his great-great-great-grandson. In the USA, their resins and big blocks, 8cyl, have also been used for decades. engines.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 00: 49 New
          0
          Цитата: Alexander Mosin
          But the V-92S2F has the same block as the ancient, at that time brilliant, engine

          It's generally simpler than that. Repairing a lorry. Ohrenel. There are even rubber brake pads.
  12. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 24 2020 07: 30 New
    -4
    In fact, even biathlon runs tanks with diesel engines
    power over 1500 l / s! Or does the author not know this? ?? belay
    1. 113262a
      113262a April 24 2020 07: 52 New
      +4
      But this is F-1, only tank! For one or two races! Then, a bulkhead. Knowing in detail the design of this motor-I affirm-OUTDATED FINALLY! All decisions a la aviation of the 30s!
      1. Servisinzhener
        Servisinzhener April 24 2020 11: 52 New
        0
        What exactly is outdated in it? And what should be in the new engine, which can not be implemented to improve the V-92?
        1. 113262a
          113262a April 24 2020 13: 12 New
          +3
          Lousy quality piston rings, steel chrome sleeves, bevel gears on the timing in the head, oil filter ,, wild oil consumption for waste. The design of the main and trailer rods. Fuel is a separate conversation!
          1. Servisinzhener
            Servisinzhener April 24 2020 15: 42 New
            +2
            I learned more useful information from your comment than from the article. Many people write that the B-92 basically has a V-2, but they don’t write what is common in them and what is outdated.
            Knowing in detail the design of this motor
            You should write an article on this engine explaining specific problem areas.
            1. 113262a
              113262a April 24 2020 23: 01 New
              +1
              About two years ago, the story of the creation of this motor was described here. . Pretty accurately everything is described, but! at the time of development, the motor was no longer a super-duper, aviation roots are still pulling to the bottom of the effort to force this miracle. Due to the aviation nature of the structure, the manufacturing cost is high, reliability is low, and there are a lot of controversial decisions to date. What is the different compression ratio for the left and right half block. , Yes, the length of the motor was reduced (not by much), but the unevenness of the torque was added. Weight reduced? But they increased the pressure on the cylinder wall of the trailer connecting rod. - to the detriment of the same resource. And what is it worth fixing the main connecting rod cover with the help of ramrod pins, also conical? Just a technologist’s nightmare! And the repairman too!
          2. Alexander mosin
            Alexander mosin April 25 2020 02: 39 New
            0
            One of the problems is replacing the engine with a T-72 or T-90, you need a single unit with a transmission, like with Leo2, which can be changed anywhere in 15 minutes, and not two days as with T-72/90. Directly in the database areas, this is a very important quality.
            1. 113262a
              113262a April 25 2020 12: 13 New
              +1
              At 72, too, partially so! The engine with the GUITAR is removed entirely, the final drive gearbox with the gearbox remain in place!
              1. Alexga
                Alexga April 26 2020 17: 31 New
                0
                The engine with the GUITAR is removed entirely, the final drive gearbox with the gearbox remain in place!
                Vladimir, have you mixed up anything? Or is it something new in Troop repair?
        2. 113262a
          113262a April 25 2020 12: 23 New
          +1
          There is a Tutaevsky YaMZ-240 with a very tricky crankshaft (only the Tatra is trickier), the same 12 cylinders, only of a smaller volume. Give him the same 4 valves per cylinder according to the DAF scheme, which is many times simpler and more reliable than the B-2 scheme and others like it., The lower camshaft can handle the engine with revs up to 3000! Essno-turbocharging with intercooler. Well, for the greater importance, the scheme with a dry sump and a larger pump. For small equipment and morphlot, the same Tutaevsky Kamaz is an overgrowth, the eight, which was developed for torpedo boats.
      2. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow April 24 2020 14: 54 New
        +1
        And the PE-8 flew on some ... diesels.
        1. 113262a
          113262a April 24 2020 15: 07 New
          -1
          It was on some! Yu-88-also flew on diesels! Then they were put on the t-64.
          1. 113262a
            113262a April 24 2020 15: 09 New
            0
            And the resource of forced B-2 remained comparable with aviation! With a large resource, these diesel engines are only 300-400 hp. Type D-12-400, etc.
          2. serezhasoldatow
            serezhasoldatow April 25 2020 22: 52 New
            0
            From the PE-8 they put boats on the dashboard. And ... nonsense is easier to carry than a log. Sorry rudely, but ...
            1. 113262a
              113262a April 26 2020 01: 28 New
              0
              Yes, don’t turn over the bags ... TB-7 were built at the aircraft factory in Kazan. The first aircraft were equipped with the already mentioned central engine pressurization system. Then they began to install high-altitude engines AM-35A (turbochargers were never taken into operation), and for the most part diesel M-3O or M-40, which had the same design. In July 1941, the first combat formation under the command of the famous polar pilot M.V. Vodopyanov was formed from such aircraft, and in August 1941 this formation raided Berlin. During this long-range flight, the TB-7 carried three tons of bombs. those. several times more. than double-sided long-range bombers.

              Due to the revealed insecurity of diesel engines, AM-7A was installed on TB-35. It was on such an aircraft that the crew of the pilot E.K. Pusep delivered to the United States in 1942. and then back to Moscow the Soviet diplomatic mission led by V.M. Molotov.

              После гибели в 1942 г. В.М.Петлякова. одного из главных руководителей проекта "42" (ТБ-7), самолет ТБ-7 переименовали в Пе-8.

              After the cessation of the production of AM-35A engines, the Pe-8 bombers began to be equipped with air-cooled M-82 engines. so this was the only and unsuccessful experience in introducing diesel engines (with us) in aviation. Junkers also invented, manufactured and implemented his own YuMO, which became the prototype of the very sixty-four miracle And those on boats are 400-401 engines. Issued to this day, although still cripple one! Oil consumption-5-6 liters per hour!
              1. 113262a
                113262a April 26 2020 01: 33 New
                0
                Here is a good article http://alternathistory.com/aviatsionnye-dizeli-v-sssr-an-1-m-40-m-30/
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek April 24 2020 07: 53 New
      +2
      Chinese tanks?
  13. Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 24 2020 07: 47 New
    -2
    Author, ask this question to Chubais and his gopkompakke, what did they say there at the beginning of 90?
    And do not be silly to write about wartime, it’s just that the Germans didn’t have the ability to create a diesel for tanks.
    And the hope of raising modern diesel engines for tanks and shipbuilding is not to be raised by the VO, but at a meeting of the government and Moscow Region. Wrong question.
  14. svp67
    svp67 April 24 2020 08: 34 New
    +3
    I don’t know about you, but I watched this film more than once, but I didn’t have such a question.
    Да потому что там победил не танк, а экипаж, ЧЕЛОВЕК оказался сильнее "злого демона войны"
    We made exactly the tank that we were allowed to make our capabilities. And now I'm not talking about the capabilities of our engineers and designers, not about the production workshops of tank factories. I'm talking about engines. Those same "fiery motors that are instead of the heart." How many good projects were ruined only because there was no engine of the required power.
    ????? This passage caused a LOT of questions, but what did the KV-13 and T-44 have any other engines?
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 24 2020 20: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      This passage caused a LOT of questions, but what did the KV-13 and T-44 have any other engines?

      The author came in with trump cards.

      B-2 was enough for the 25-ton T-34 in abundance. The engine was a problem only in terms of reliability, quality and additional replacement kits.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 24 2020 20: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Octopus
        The engine was a problem only in terms of reliability, quality and additional replacement kits.

        Well, there were more questions to manufacture than to design
  15. EvilLion
    EvilLion April 24 2020 08: 37 New
    0
    А чем в фильме "Белый тигр" танк главного героя отличался от остальных? И чем сам "белый тигр" отличался от остальных "тигров", которых жгли сотнями? По сути это странная история о бое двух бессмертных, один на уровне человека, другой на уровне неуничтожимой железки.

    1130 liter engine with. for a tank about 50 tons of weight, is the author fundamentally not happy?
    1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Aristarkh Lyudvigovich April 24 2020 08: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: EvilLion
      In fact, this is a strange story about the battle of two immortals, one at the human level, the other at the level of an indestructible piece of iron.

      Так и есть. "Белый тигр" это символ "торжества немецкого духа", в те годы - нацизма, который не уничтожен, а отполз в темноту, чтоб снова выползти через много лет, зло, которое скрыто, и иногда многие (например, наводчик Крюк) не видят его в упор. Кстати киноконцерн "Мосфильм" для фильма заказал ходовую копию "Тигра", но получить в срок ее не успел. Сейчас у них во дворе стоит под навесом.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion April 24 2020 08: 58 New
        0
        EMNIP on the set was covered with boards IS-2. A tank, like, they wanted to take a museum.
        1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
          Aristarkh Lyudvigovich April 24 2020 10: 30 New
          +1
          Киноконцерн "Мосфильм" заказал танк в макетной студии "Рондо-С". А снималось фанерное чудовище на базе ИС-2. Дело в том, что создателей макета подвели изготовители траков и макет не успели завершить к началу съемок.
          1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
            Aristarkh Lyudvigovich April 24 2020 10: 31 New
            +2
            Technical characteristics of the layout of the Tiger tank:
            Weight - 26 tons.
            Engine - YaMZ 238 (240 l / s).
            Wednesday speed. - 25-30 km / h.
            Внутренние механизмы изготавливались силами макетной студии "Рондо-С". Гусеницы (копии оригинальных) отливались по выплавляемым моделям.
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. April 24 2020 18: 01 New
      +4
      In general, how could one film an excellent Boyashov's eponymous book? This is a parable about the struggle between Good and Evil. A terrible parable: a dead tanker, or rather his soul in a burned body, against a soulless invulnerable evil machine. Be sure to read the book.
      1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
        Aristarkh Lyudvigovich April 24 2020 20: 15 New
        0
        hi I will definitely read how to find the time.
  16. Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 24 2020 08: 49 New
    -2
    According to one article a week it turns out - we need engines, we need engines ....
    And nothing has changed.
  17. rocket757
    rocket757 April 24 2020 08: 52 New
    +4
    The kid looked in all eyes behind the ups and downs of the plot and at the end of the film he asked: "Uncle Sasha, why for our other tankers did not make the same tanks as the one that defeated the German?"

    Ой как знакомо! Особенно, когда это не один малыш, а целый "клуб юных почемучек"!
    Как им объяснить, что есть разные "логичные" оправдания, которыми "любят" играться большие дяди???
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 10: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: rocket757

      Как им объяснить, что есть разные "логичные" оправдания, которыми "любят" играться большие дяди???

      Фильм же не об этом. И дело не в противоборстве Т-34 и "Тигра". Т-34 здесь взят как "эпический герой танковых войск СССР", на ряду с "Катюшей", "ЗИС-3", ППШ. А "Белый Тигр" - как олицетворение фашизма = войны. Идея фильма - фашизм не побежден. Да, фашизм лишен героизмом РККА вести войну, но он не уничтожен, он ушел в "болото" но он вернется.
      And, as we see, he is back.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 24 2020 11: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        The film is not about that.

        I watched the film, it is INTERESTING to me!
        But I'm not talking about that either! Why are now developing faster than we were at their age, and let’s look at all sorts of different things! Therefore, they ask all sorts of different questions ... a lot of uncomfortable! Cheating them is worthless, but the truth is very different, to taste!
        Если вернутся к нашему двигателестроению, очевидно, что у нас идёт непрерывная "война"! Сейчас вообще понять трудно, какие приоритеты победить могут ... государственная, экономическая или ещё какая необходимость, против какой то, чьей то целесообразностью???
        Those. GOOD engines are needed, many different! But who and how can do this, and who and how can interfere?
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 11: 47 New
          0
          Quote: rocket757

          But I'm not talking about that either! Why are now developing faster than us at their age,

          That is why you should have explained the idea of ​​the film.
          For the rest, I agree with you. Our eternal problem is engines. Moreover, any.
          To me, a person far from this problem, it seems that even .... eleven years ago it was necessary to create a separate research institute for engine building. And do not spare money for their work. And at each manufacturing plant its own design bureau. And the work of these design bureaus and research institutes should be coordinated. And even today it’s not too late to do it. Up to inviting foreign specialists to work at this research institute.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 24 2020 12: 17 New
            0
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            That is why you should have explained the idea of ​​the film.

            It’s a mixed age group, it’s too early to explain it to the majority, but just to take it on faith .... it’s not very reliable, I don’t want to enjoy the trust of children. They will grow up, they will understand correctly anyway, but by themselves, and for sure.
            How to develop domestic production of anything and everything, methods have long been known and time-tested. All that is needed is a clearly defined task and state support.
  18. Mikhalych
    Mikhalych April 24 2020 09: 55 New
    +5
    It surprises me when they compare the heavy Tiger tank with the average T-34. With KV or IS-2 they do not want ... Then compare with the armored car, which Lenin spoke in 1917. The benefits of the Tiger will be awesome. And the Germans praised the B-2 engine on the T34.
    tongue
  19. Vdi73
    Vdi73 April 24 2020 10: 00 New
    +5
    In order to produce something efficient, industrialization, engineers, skilled workers, educational institutions, and scientific potential are needed. And we have lawyers, financiers, speculators, environmentalists, thieves and oligarchs. While this domestic policy will be, we will remain in limbo, patched one hole, the second formed.
  20. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk April 24 2020 10: 25 New
    +4
    In less than 4 years, we were able to make a qualitative technological breakthrough in the family of high-speed engines with power from 1 thousand to 4 thousand kW. The developed family of DM-185 engines in their functionality,
    Ну и..? Мы даже на МРК "Буян" или "Каракурт" их ставить не можем. В чем победа? С чего радость?
  21. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA April 24 2020 10: 34 New
    +1
    Can it go the simple way if we cannot bring the diesel theme to our minds, buy a license from the Germans, Finns or Swedes, saturate the civilian sector, then the military? Now it’s harder to do during the period of sanctions, but if you really want something and you can get a star from the sky, no one canceled scientific and technical intelligence, the country's leadership must take personal control
  22. Basarev
    Basarev April 24 2020 11: 41 New
    +3
    An important point. This B-92 mentioned in article is not at all a new diesel engine. This is once again forced V-2, the engine of the thirty-four. After it, not a single brand new tank diesel was created from scratch.
  23. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 April 24 2020 12: 25 New
    +3
    You can’t do it with mat.
    In general, let's start with the fact that a person showing a four-year-old child a modern Russian film is clearly and very inadequate. A modern Russian film is suitable for anything, just not for adults to watch it, not like kids. Move on.
    The T34 powerplant was the pinnacle of diesel engineering of those years, with the exception of the injectors. The 2 was a magnificent, unrivaled power unit, on the basis of which all the domestic diesel engines we use so far have been developed. Numerous problems with him were caused not by the fact that the engine itself was bad (600 horses under turbocharging, traction from below, a supercar for a tank and other heavy equipment!), But because the workmanship and assembly were much behind.
    The author puts forward a sound (albeit completely impossible) idea that it is time to develop a new domestic diesel engine. Alas, at the same time, he, as is now customary, drives a terrible snowstorm, wanting to defame Soviet equipment. At the same time, he demonstrates the usual now dense ignorance, the inability to think and even delve a little into the net to enlighten the brain.
    Very sorry.
  24. Alexander Zlobinsky
    Alexander Zlobinsky April 24 2020 13: 27 New
    -1
    The specific power of the V-2 for the T-34 was 18 hp / t. This is the highest figure for the period of the Second World War. The engine was ugly - the cruising range was 80-100 km. Oil needs to be refilled 4 times more often than fuel. Air purification did not work. In general, the tank did not work. It was simply a stage in the formation of design principles, the formation of a design school. It is bad that the stage was sprinting for the political decisions of the dictator. As a result, the Germans produced about 30 tanks and surrendered to 000 tanks. We produced 2 and won with 000. Expense 101/000. Each tank had, is, there will be shortcomings, shortcomings. There is nothing perfect. But the main flaws of the T-10 are not related to engine power. Technique, history, military skill cannot be studied from fairy-tale films. And the film will not endure criticism at all. But here we will not criticize the film.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 24 2020 17: 30 New
      0
      Цитата: Александр Злобинский
      The specific power of the V-2 for the T-34 was 18 hp / t. This is the highest figure for the period of the Second World War.

      What's the point? All this wealth was immediately ruined by the transmission - the four-step simply did not allow to use the entire power of the engine, and besides, it limited the speed in the battle to 12-14 km / h. For when the gear shifted, the tank slowed down to a stop, and even the engine could die out (from the Kubinka report on the T-34 transmission, 1942). So I stuck the second one - and forward, without leaving her. Well, about 25-30 kg on the control levers do not need to be forgotten.
      Цитата: Александр Злобинский
      It is bad that the stage was sprinting for the political decisions of the dictator.

      What do you do? Majo sho majo - somehow it did not work out before the revolution with engine building and, in general, with ABT. So I had to catch up, so as not to be in the position of Poland or China of the 30s.
      We are 50-100 years behind advanced countries.
      We must make good this distance in ten years.
      Either we do it, or they crush us.
      © IVS
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 24 2020 20: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        So I had to catch up, so as not to be in the position of Poland or China of the 30s.

        Why not Japan?
        Quote: Alexey RA
        We must make good this distance in ten years.

        Do not run.
    2. Siberian54
      Siberian54 April 24 2020 20: 00 New
      0
      And what did you want to bring the chief designer to death ... And the modern bureau was really effective manager (manager), he was able to bring the tank up to release, but ordinary workers didn’t pull up the design .. From here everything that you described about T-34
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 24 2020 20: 53 New
        0
        Quote: Siberian54
        And what did you wish the chief designer summed up under execution ...

        The worst thing is that where to denounced even by fellow designers. Here is a typical example:
        ... the pest Firsov, the former head of the design bureau at the KhPZ plant, where it was transferred by the pest Neiman, the former head of Spetsmashtrest; at the factory number 48 (Kharkov), where those. the director was the wrecker-fascist Simsky, who dragged the fascist Gakkel to the factory number 48 and put him at the head of the BT-IS production
        © N.F. Tsyganov. Letter to the Central Committee of the CPSU (b).
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 24 2020 21: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The most filthy thing is that even fellow designers wrote denunciations of it.

          And so, you also have bespectacles to blame for everything, and the valiant bodies honestly worked out incoming documents?

          Oh well.
          1. Siberian54
            Siberian54 April 25 2020 18: 43 New
            0
            GPU-NKVD-up to 60% of employees had one to three year educational courses or primary real education, most of them had no legal education besides a special course in political administration, How can such personnel find out where the political problem is (someone gets into the bosses or someone's wife is to their taste) approached) or the technical person is not in his place harming the state?
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 25 2020 18: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Siberian54
              How can such cadres figure out where the political problem is (someone climbs into the bosses or whose wife came to taste to their liking) or does the technical person inappropriately harm the state?

              Elementary. Whole confession is the queen of evidence.
  25. iouris
    iouris April 24 2020 13: 28 New
    -1
    So thirty years ago they were needed. So what?
  26. eklmn
    eklmn April 24 2020 17: 00 New
    0
    And what about them?
    found on Google a comparison of Abrams and T-14.
    About the engine like this (first Google):
    “American Abrams tanks are equipped with a gas turbine engine developing 1500 hp. This is mainly a modified helicopter engine, adapted for use on tanks. It is compact for its power output. Therefore, despite the fact that the Abrams is heavy and bulky, this tank is surprisingly nimble thanks to a powerful engine. It is much faster than many other tanks, and has excellent off-road performance. In addition, its gas turbine unit has more advantages compared to a traditional diesel engine. It is a multi-fuel engine that can run on kerosene, diesel, gasoline or aviation fuel. At very low temperatures, the engine may have problems starting. Also, the engine is remarkably quiet. Because of this feature, Abrams was even nicknamed Silent Death. A gas turbine engine has maintenance intervals significantly longer than diesel engines. However, a gas turbine engine has several disadvantages - it is difficult to maintain and has a very high fuel consumption compared to diesel engines.
    Russian Armata is equipped with a new turbocharged diesel engine, developing a capacity of 1 hp. This is a new generation engine, which is much more compact and powerful than previous Russian tank engines. This engine has not yet been tested and may have a number of problems. However, this Russian diesel engine is much more economical and easier to maintain than an American gas turbine.
    Abrams accelerates faster than Armata and has excellent cross-country performance. However, in general, in terms of engine power and mobility, both tanks have their strengths and weaknesses. ”
    And further. Sitting in quarantine I watched the series “Tank Battles”. About tank battles from the 1st world to the 21st century. In 1944 (or 1945), the Germans managed to break out of the Baltic cauldron to Koniksberg and withdraw 400 thousand. The breakthrough was made by tankers. At night they went to the village where the division of heavy Soviet tanks stood - not that T-XX or IS-XX (I don’t remember). I remembered that nobody heard the approach of the German tanks, and that the Germans, coming close to them, shot the division. And not because they did not resist, but because in order to load the Soviet tank, its gun had to be tilted to the ground.
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 24 2020 20: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: eklmn
      And what about them?
      found on Google a comparison of Abrams and T-14.

      The Americans have their own signature troubles. They hate liquid cooling on tanks, and the turbine allowed them to get by with air. Now work is underway on a diesel engine, but also extremely confused in terms of heat dissipation.

      But the Americans are alone. Not the fact that their position should be taken as Revelation.
    2. iouris
      iouris April 24 2020 21: 13 New
      0
      Quote: eklmn
      This is mainly a modified helicopter engine,

      Что значит "в основном"? Нельзя быть наполовину беременной (или можно?).
      In our country (in the USSR) it is the other way around: the tank engine was installed on the MiG-29.
      Quote: eklmn
      At very low temperatures, the engine may have problems starting.

      But I think the opposite: the diesel engine will have problems, and the gas turbine engine will not. Who will judge?
  27. tsinik
    tsinik April 24 2020 21: 37 New
    0
    " Сколько хороших проектов было загублено только потому, что не было двигателя необходимой мощности."
    It is desirable for a more specific. Personally, I do not know of any such project. For example, in addition to the T-34, there was a KV heavy tank and its development of IS. The engine was slightly boosted the same as on the T-34 and mobility was quite comparable with the German Tiger and in terms of range was almost twice as large as the Tiger. (220 km vs 120 km).
  28. Operator
    Operator April 24 2020 23: 05 New
    -4
    Diesel - a technological dead end (money down the drain), GTE - taxis.
  29. IC
    IC April 25 2020 15: 03 New
    0
    Interesting article. But there are many inaccuracies in the Navy section. Several systems for surface ships are used in the world: diesel, gas turbine, diesel gas turbine. The introduction of diesel electrical systems has begun. But not on boats. Boilers for a long time have not been installed on new projects. Exception, new Indian and Chinese aircraft carriers. But this is a continuation of the old Soviet project.
    Lag in ship diesel engines is really significant and negatively affects new projects.
  30. Evil 55
    Evil 55 April 25 2020 15: 53 New
    0
    Actual article .. But the fact is that the decisions we make are made by successful managers with London registration and a few passports in the bosom .. Therefore, they do not need either a strong country or modern equipment of national production.
  31. GRANATE-19
    GRANATE-19 April 25 2020 17: 15 New
    0
    Мальчику нужно было сказать: "Да потому что у нас во время войны машины с одной фарой делали!...".
    If he did not understand, then explain in more detail.
  32. Aag
    Aag April 25 2020 18: 51 New
    0
    Quote: AAG
    VAG-You, apparently, about Volkswagen ...
    Сам в шоке...Не,Гольф 2,3-го поколения,-сказка,в своем классе(ИМХО)...Про современные:(не юзал,-по наблюдениям)-,китайский "Лифан",- не меньший функционал за меньшие деньги при сопоставимой качестве... hi
    1. Aag
      Aag April 25 2020 18: 56 New
      0
      "я про бензин от VAG, ресурс которых 80-100 т. к."
      Про нынешний маркетинг,и ненужность "вечной иглы для патефона" я,конечно,в курсе...
      But 100t.k.-overkill! Maybe the frequency of service (?)
  33. certero
    certero April 25 2020 22: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Albert1988
    eating more expensive fuel

    Eating any fuel
  34. Arabfun
    Arabfun April 26 2020 03: 19 New
    -1
    for a good engine you need a quality substance from which it will be made. If the country has a substance of worse quality than the enemy has such engines, it is unlikely that the enemy will sell pure ore to our tanks.
  35. Aibolit
    Aibolit April 26 2020 03: 33 New
    0
    Quote: Author
    And we have a backlog. Let me remind you the words of the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov,

    Sanya Staver .... Why are you mentally retarded or a prostitute like Naila in the Back / Nightingale will have a litter?
    Manturov (a hoarse lover of expensive hotels at the expense of taxpayers in Russia) a month ago szdel: in 2 weeks I will provide the country with masks / respirators / antiseptics!
    ?
    And ... send you a video of the nannies of the sewing masks?
    Have you bought a mask for a long time?
    Do you know the cost?
    34₽ / 75 = 0,45 $ / wholesale
    And it was 7 ₽ / 65 = $ 0,10 / retail
    Staver ... do you know anything from the occupiers of the Motherland?
    Do you know?
    Or is your homeland not the “one” and the eclipse caused an eclipse of the topvar in the amount of 24 000 000 ₽ / 2018?
    I doubt otherwise Manturov would not have been quoted
    What about an antiseptic?
    Staver - and you, as a typical “simple little girl”, how do you evaluate the report in the West and Manturov about the tests of Almaty in Syria?
    How are you calling or 3,14 here?
    / I will be banned, but at least the feces identified /
  36. Alexey Polyutkin
    Alexey Polyutkin April 26 2020 05: 06 New
    0
    But I also immediately wondered: why such a tank was made alone. But I am an adult and I myself answered this question: maybe there were no stabilizers at all? And if you didn’t put something to do more tanks?
    And without a movie, the question is: why did the T-34-85 go until the end of the war with 45 mm body armor? Why didn’t they increase the reservation when the nemchura rode already on the Panthers and Tigers?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 26 2020 05: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Alexey Polyutkin
      why did the t-34-85 go until the end of the war with 45 mm body armor? Why did not increase the reservation

      Увеличивали. Почитайте трилогию Першанина: "Танкист, штрафник, смертник". Там где то описано, как броню увеличивали.
  37. valerei
    valerei April 26 2020 12: 44 New
    0
    Если автор НЕСКОЛЬКО РАЗ!!! смотрел это фуфло "Белый тигр", то как можно с ним об чём-то говорить?
  38. Oleg Korenchenko
    Oleg Korenchenko April 26 2020 16: 05 New
    0
    Of course, the B-92 has no analogues in the world, because it is an improved version of the old B-2, developed back in the late thirties of the last century, and throughout the world more than one generation of diesel engines has already been replaced during this time.
  39. Podvodnik
    Podvodnik April 26 2020 17: 42 New
    +2
    We need new diesel engines like air


    Да нам много чего нужно. И не только дизельные двигатели. Устанешь перечислять. И не сейчас, а "вчера". А какой вывод из этого следует? Да простой до безобразия. Нам нужны люди. Да, ЛЮДИ!!!!, которые все это нужное смогут (и захотят!) сделать. Если будут мозги, руки, инструменты, желание-значит будет дизель. Если нет дизеля, то чего-то из перечисленного списка не хватает. И причина этого ясна до безобразия. Такова внутренняя политика государства. И длится это не год или два, а десятилетия.
    А решение есть. И тоже простое до безобразия. Но оно не быстрое. Называется "образование". Есть оно, есть дизель и все остальное. Нет его-ничего нет. Войну выигрывает школьный учитель. И экономическую в том числе. От этого никуда не денешься.

    Поэтому начинать надо еще с детских садиков. Продолжать в школе, закреплять в ВУЗе. Будут "кадры", будет и дизель, и все остальное. Опять же упираемся в термин "внутренняя политика государства". Просто так с неба ничего не упадет.
    Сколько не говори: "сахар"- во рту слаще не будет.
  40. Konatantin 1992
    Konatantin 1992 April 27 2020 06: 02 New
    0
    The engine is needed of course, but the production base and human resources are poorer ... so it will be hard to develop and build ...
  41. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 April 27 2020 21: 12 New
    0
    We need to build new plants and rebuild old ones, and we won’t have to go anywhere!
  42. nikon7717
    nikon7717 April 28 2020 21: 14 New
    0
    Dear author! Forgive my ignorance, but in terms of sources on the ships you mentioned only nuclear ships for large tonnage. And I’m curious, a couple of years ago we were presented with torpedoes from a nuclear power plant, and even a rocket. Why the designer can’t make assemblies from such nuclear power plants for small ships (tanks is a long-range fantasy, very dangerous), does it turn out that such military nuclear power plants are already armed with military ships? It remains to put them into practice. This will be another qualitative breakthrough for the military.
  43. About 2
    About 2 April 30 2020 08: 39 New
    0
    The author the Indians still set our condition for the automatic transmission to be on the T 90, and ours ordered it from the German company Rank, the one that develops similar systems for German Leopard tanks.