The German Die Zeit called the possible causes of high mortality from a coronavirus in Italy


The European Union asked why coronavirus mortality rates in Europe are completely different, and often the difference is many times. The situation in Germany and Italy is given as the most striking example. In the case of Germany, the mortality rate for COVID-19 is at the level of statistical error - about 0,5%, but in Italy this figure yesterday exceeded 10%.


A few more examples: coronavirus mortality in Greece, which is geographically very similar to Italy, is about 2,4%, in Spain, which is also geographically close to Italy, it is already 7,23%.

Recall that it is Italy that continues to maintain sad leadership not only in the number of cases in Europe, but also in the number of deaths. The statistics is as follows: 74,3 thousand cases identified, 7503 - dead.

The reviewers of the German edition of Die Zeit, Helena Erdmann and Linda Fischer, trying to figure out these very different numbers, write:

It is unlikely that we are talking about some kind of virus mutation in Italy, a mutation leading to a high mortality rate. The situation can be explained, perhaps, by the state of medicine. The higher the quality of the services provided, the lower the mortality rate.

The material contains a statement by the epidemiologist from the Helmholtz Center for Infections and Virus Research Berit Lange:

If the healthcare system is significantly overloaded, infected people who would survive under other circumstances could die. Banal things: for example, there are not enough beds, mechanical ventilation devices.

It is noteworthy that this statement was made against the background of an openly delusional publication in one of the liberal Italian newspapers that the Russian military brought to Italy "what is not needed to fight the coronavirus." What is not needed? The same ventilators that are sorely lacking in the clinics of Italian Lombardy?

The German press cites the evidence of the doctors of the Bergamo clinics themselves. One such evidence:

Our hospital has long stepped over all conceivable limits on the admission of patients. It itself has long been infected with the virus, so much so that even the uninfected COVID-19 people who enter here eventually become infected and die. There is no special assistance for elderly patients. They die without her - without a chance of salvation.

Noteworthy comments by German readers:

A lot of older people - maybe just accidental bad luck? Maybe when we carry out the testing, it turns out that almost all of us have it and it was ...

Simply, no one takes into account such an important circumstance as the mentality of Italians, when several generations of the same family live together, in the same house.
Ctrl Enter

Noticed a mistake Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

66 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Amateur 26 March 2020 15: 29 New
    • 15
    • 0
    +15
    why coronavirus mortality rates in Europe are completely different,

    And can anyone reasonably explain, or at least suppose, how Prince Charles could get infected? He probably does not go on the subway and does not go shopping. And the service team is probably regularly checked by their "sanitary and epidemiological surveillance".
    1. Doctor 26 March 2020 15: 33 New
      • 8
      • 1
      +7
      And can anyone reasonably explain, or at least suppose, how Prince Charles could get infected?

      From Prince of Monaco Albert. They crossed at social events.
      1. Dmitry Potapov 26 March 2020 16: 10 New
        • 17
        • 5
        +12
        Sexually!
        1. nznz 26 March 2020 16: 28 New
          • 11
          • 10
          +1
          someone coughing him on a member?
        2. Steen 26 March 2020 22: 28 New
          • 4
          • 4
          0
          What a jerk you are.
      2. Varyag_0711 26 March 2020 16: 15 New
        • 6
        • 6
        0
        Arzt (Yuri)
        From Prince of Monaco Albert. They crossed at social events.
        And the prince of Monaco from whom, from the homeless? request laughing
      3. Amateur 26 March 2020 16: 54 New
        • 2
        • 3
        -1
        They crossed at social events.

        I doubt that Charles Albert I la
        1. Jack O'Neill 26 March 2020 18: 05 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          It's hard to look at lips that you can't kiss. laughing
        2. Doctor 26 March 2020 18: 09 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          I doubt that Charles Albert I la


          It is known, however, that in mid-March, Prince Charles took part in the WaterAid event in London, where he sat with Prince Albert II of Monaco, who, without any symptoms last week, passed a test for a new type of coronavirus, which turned out to be positive.
    2. alexmach 26 March 2020 17: 20 New
      • 3
      • 1
      +2
      And can anyone reasonably explain, or at least suppose, how Prince Charles could get infected?

      First of all, what the hell is the difference.
      He probably doesn’t go on the subway and doesn’t go shopping

      Well, yes, tell me not in contact with people
      And the service team is probably regularly checked by their "sanitary and epidemiological surveillance".

      It’s very vryatli, I don’t know how it is in Britain, but in general only those with symptoms are tested. No one especially tests healthy, moreover, if a person is infected but the symptoms have not yet manifested, then it is not a fact that the test will give a positive result. Well, even if you check his staff, who can check the staff of all his friends and contacts, his wife there, children, friends, subordinates? It is simply not possible.
    3. Vol4ara 26 March 2020 17: 41 New
      • 16
      • 0
      +16
      Quote: Amateur
      why coronavirus mortality rates in Europe are completely different,

      And can anyone reasonably explain, or at least suppose, how Prince Charles could get infected? He probably does not go on the subway and does not go shopping. And the service team is probably regularly checked by their "sanitary and epidemiological surveillance".

      The crown was brought to Russia not by metro, but by air from Italy, and its representatives brought above the middle class. Who can afford to drink coffee in Italy, and go to bed in Japan, they transported it around the world
    4. NEXUS 26 March 2020 18: 58 New
      • 5
      • 2
      +3
      Quote: Amateur
      And can anyone reasonably explain, or at least suppose, how Prince Charles could get infected?

      I didn’t wash my hands after going for chikushka to the boutiques.
  3. 210ox 26 March 2020 15: 29 New
    • 6
    • 1
    +5
    Maybe there Ulya Suprun is already hosting?
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich 26 March 2020 15: 39 New
      • 9
      • 1
      +8
      Ulya Suprun is a beautiful woman! This is the choice of the oldest people. And she treats- wonderful- embroidered shirts.)
    2. Mountain shooter 27 March 2020 07: 03 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      Maybe there Ulya Suprun is already hosting?

      There are such Ul - every second one, not counting the first ... these are managers, not doctors ... the managers of finances that society allocates for medicine ... Money is not small, the temptation is great.
  4. knn54 26 March 2020 15: 34 New
    • 21
    • 0
    +21
    In Italy, one out of every three residents is over 65. The average age of Italian patients who die from coronavirus is (La Stampa) 79,5 years.
    And as the Turkish citizen said: "Do not teach me how to live; better help me financially."
  5. Avior 26 March 2020 15: 40 New
    • 6
    • 2
    +4
    it is more logical to compare the ratio of recovered and deceased
    Germany
    Confirmed: 39
    Deaths: 222
    Recovered: 3
    Active: 35


    for 15 recovered one dead
    Italy
    Confirmed: 74
    Deaths: 7
    Recovered: 9
    Active: 57

    and Austria for example
    Austria
    Confirmed: 6
    Deaths: 42
    Recovered: 112
    Active: 5

    2 recovered, one died
    Switzerland
    Switzerland
    Confirmed: 11
    Deaths: 165
    Recovered: 131
    Active: 10

    there are more dead than recovered
    but in fact mortality can be accurately determined after the pandemic
    1. Liam 26 March 2020 15: 45 New
      • 4
      • 4
      0
      Quote: Avior
      more logical

      It is more logical to compare the moment the epidemic begins. In different countries, there are different stages of the development of the epidemic.
      Chronologically, the epidemic began in this sequence — Italy, Spain, France, Germany, and the World Bank.
      Compare the numbers of the dead in this sequence and everything will fall into place.
      In Italy, in fact, the 4th day in a row according to the infected, the trend is down. The number of new infected is declining. For everyone else, it is growing
      1. Volodin 26 March 2020 15: 52 New
        • 9
        • 4
        +5
        Quote: Liam
        The number of new infections is decreasing. For all others, it is growing

        Well, that means that in a week everyone will be announced, as in China: "Italy coped with the coronavirus, everyone fraternizes, kisses, organizes mass walks in the squares." Zomboyaschik and the trend "one woman said," he is ... Sometimes it seems that to defeat the epidemic in the world you just need to turn off the TV and smartphone ... for a few days ...
        1. Liam 26 March 2020 16: 32 New
          • 9
          • 3
          +6
          Quote: Volodin
          Zomboyaschik and the trend "one woman said"

          I suppose for you such a concept as an epidemiological curve sounds like a shamanic spell.
          How many wonderful discoveries are to us ...
          1. Volodin 26 March 2020 16: 44 New
            • 5
            • 4
            +1
            And I believe that you with your "epidemiological curve" and other "interesting" (well-known to you) comments on VO are not accidental ...

            Yes, yes ... and experience, the son of difficult mistakes ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. A.TOR 26 March 2020 17: 09 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                You are cool
              2. Volodin 26 March 2020 17: 30 New
                • 7
                • 3
                +4
                And throwing his homeland
                now so busy
                Liam Broadcasts around the world:
                In Bergamo - Dolce Vita.

                He is Euroassigned
                I felt on myself
                But at night, still
                Three letters - "fe-es-be" ...
                1. reservist 26 March 2020 17: 54 New
                  • 0
                  • 0
                  0
                  Quote: Volodin
                  In Bergamo - Dolce Vita.

                  in Bergamo, even the local crematorium can no longer cope ...
        2. Ka-52 27 March 2020 04: 22 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Sometimes it seems that to defeat the epidemic in the world you just need to turn off the TV and smartphone ... for a few days ...

          you’d better put your impression to hell. How coronovirus is defeated is a real example - China. Tight restrictive measures, mobilization of all resources. There is no overlapping such as the opinion of some here on VO: “why endure hardships, let's better abolish all quarantine? And so beer and whitefish have risen in price!”.
      2. bk316 26 March 2020 16: 50 New
        • 4
        • 4
        0
        Italy is actually the 4th day in a row according to the infected-trend down.

        About two MEGA EXPERT gathered.

        it is more logical to compare the ratio of recovered and deceased

        THIS IS NOT MORTALITY THIS SOME LIKE OF MORTALITY. But no one thinks so.
        In Italy, it’s actually the 4th day in a row according to the infected-trend down

        A trend is the averaging of a set of values ​​using some mathematical function.
        Well, what function should be averaged so that the number of infected goes down?
        SECOND (SECOND CARL !!!) derivative became negative.
        In general, averaging over 4 points is even more a lie than statistics.
        1. alexmach 26 March 2020 17: 25 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Well, what function should be averaged so that the number of infected goes down?

          Summing up?
          1. bk316 27 March 2020 14: 01 New
            • 1
            • 4
            -3
            Summing up?

            Humor appreciated.
            For non-mathematicians. Whatever function is if you average it by summing. SHE WILL NEVER GO DOWN.
            By the way, for some reason this is done on many sites, displaying the number of PATIENTS, and not the number of PATIENTS.
            According to such information, the PRC was in the first place until yesterday (and here they were overtaken by the United States yesterday), although they had already dealt with the epidemic there long ago.
            1. alexmach 27 March 2020 16: 11 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              There, nevertheless, as far as I understand it, it’s not about the number of sick people or even about the number of sick people, but about the number of new sick people.
      3. alexmach 26 March 2020 17: 23 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        In Italy, it’s actually the 4th day in a row according to the infected-trend down

        Of course. With such a quarantine for such a long time.
      4. tomket 27 March 2020 01: 14 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: Liam
        The number of new infections is decreasing. For all others, it is growing

        Come on you. Fairy tales told at the beginning of the epidemic, what a wonderful medicine in Italy. How wonderful everything is. When the general pestilence began there, you began to tell what older people spoil it, they say. And so everything is fine there. No errors were made. Now everything is wonderful again. Some trends have come up with ...
        1. bk316 27 March 2020 13: 57 New
          • 2
          • 3
          -1
          what a wonderful medicine in Italy.

          Once again for the dull.
          Medicine in Italy is not bad. But medicine in this case has nothing to do with it.
          Insurance medicine is not for a pandemic.
          Health is important here. It turned out to be simply not in Italy.
          If you (I wasn’t for you personally, therefore, with a capital letter) were interested in these issues, you would have found statements by European officials (and by the way ours too) that health care is not needed, enough medicine, that health care is for the communists and not for the free world .
          1. Oyo Sarkazmi 27 March 2020 22: 35 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            There is one significant nuance - household. In Italy, there is no general heating in houses, and by spring the walls are covered with a thick layer of black mold. In the United States, with the appearance of black mold, there is only one recipe: to burn a house. In Italy - live for centuries.
            Coronavirus itself may have been circulating since 2018 - a vaper disease. Then one doctor seemed to have hinted that it looked like a coronavirus, but they shouted at him - insurance companies to unfasten real pneumonia many times more. The second outbreak was among the Japanese in Honolulu, September 2019. At that time, almost everyone was ill in our family. For about forty years I did not know that breathing can be painful. Symptoms are similar to those described.
            The Chinese were not a hotbed. They were the first to reveal it, rubbing their nose to all the laboratories of the world.
            Last: The USA has on its territory all 5 strains of the virus. One is unique, and is not a descendant of Wuhan.
      5. Alex Justice 27 March 2020 08: 56 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Compare the numbers of the dead in this sequence and everything will fall into place.

        The numbers are here:
        https://parsonstwins.000webhostapp.com/?fbclid=IwAR0RKyuV3UHi-eyDrkSYIzUdAqc8mDwgPzFdn5V9ZLTT82qyc0jx4y96JTw
    2. 16329 26 March 2020 22: 25 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      At the expense of infection in hospitals, for Germany this is normal practice, I myself have always been infected in Germany in hospitals, once at all with chickenpox (at 51, chickenpox, an unforgettable experience)
      Therefore, in Italy, hospitals certainly become breeding grounds for infection, in general, in an epidemic, a hospital is just a typhoid hut.
      The Italians need to sort out the infected as wounded in the war and allocate accordingly, treat the mild form at home, in the hospital - cases are more complicated, concentrate on them, and critical conditions, unfortunately, separate In special. Blocks, and disinfection
  6. Gardamir 26 March 2020 15: 58 New
    • 15
    • 6
    +9
    So there aren’t enough ventilators in Lombardy? But in Russia there is an excess, once they are transported to Italy.
    1. Liam 26 March 2020 16: 04 New
      • 12
      • 3
      +9
      Quote: Gardamir
      So there aren’t enough ventilators in Lombardy? But in Russia there is an excess, once they are transported to Italy.

      In itself, mechanical ventilation is nothing. You need a disfigured place in the hospital.

      . Mechanical ventilation is one of the methods of resuscitation aid and works in conjunction with other complex methods. To perform mechanical ventilation, you need a huge number of different devices - oxygen sources, apparatus for cleaning the lungs and trachea, bronchoscopes to see the lungs, monitors, to monitor the patient and change the parameters of mechanical ventilation, and much more.
      There is such a thing as resuscitation bed. This is not a bed for a patient in itself, but a large complex of stationary and mobile equipment to treat one patient
    2. Svetlana 26 March 2020 17: 17 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      As already said, the number of devices in itself is nothing. We need more paramedics, staff. And these are not janitors, you can’t train them in two days. And it was they who came to Italy.
      Personally, I see only one problem, the language. The Italians still do not speak Russian.
      1. reservist 26 March 2020 17: 38 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Russian-speaking nurses meet there ...
        though I don’t know how much ...
  7. Thrifty 26 March 2020 16: 32 New
    • 3
    • 1
    +2
    The main thing is that you are actually ready for a mass epidemic! We in the Rostov region already have statements by some leaders that a city is not ready for the influx of patients with coronovirus in general! Like, there is nothing, and there will be nowhere to place patients. ..
  8. Sancho_SP 26 March 2020 16: 35 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    You must first clarify the sources of these statistics.

    A much simpler explanation is that either many ill, but survivors, are simply not taken into account or are suitable for SARS, or all those who die from cardiopulmonary causes (and this is death "from old age") are recorded as victims of the virus.
  9. Chaldon48 26 March 2020 16: 38 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    In Italy, in some small towns there are problems with drinking water and sewage, which, combined with a hot climate, leads to an accelerated spread of infection
  10. A. Privalov 26 March 2020 16: 46 New
    • 7
    • 4
    +3
    Italian newspaper "La Stampa":
    80% of the humanitarian supplies that Russia sent to Italy to combat COVID-19 turned out to be "completely useless or of little use." Russian aid consists of equipment for disinfection of territories and similar special equipment, which Italy does not need.

    People worried about you, shared what they themselves will soon need too, say politely: "thank you" and be healthy, no! Rudeness is natural!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Thrifty 26 March 2020 17: 20 New
      • 5
      • 1
      +4
      Halts hi -Rad to see the site! This is not rudeness, this bestiality! And, a political order, to stand Russia in a bad light!
      1. cniza 26 March 2020 17: 25 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Soon, time will judge everything and put it in its place, let's see what is needed, when it is needed and whether it is necessary at all.
      2. A. Privalov 26 March 2020 17: 29 New
        • 4
        • 3
        +1
        Quote: Thrifty
        And, a political order, to stand Russia in a bad light!

        Mutually! hi
        You’re used to the fact that journalists always work on someone’s order - either the authorities, or the opposition, or even some kind of average anonymous “enemies” (you can insert whatever you want). In fact, here the order is no longer needed. Cunning zhurnalyugi around the world have long had an unreasonably large influence on the minds of people and have become an independent force and do what they want. Not for nothing they are called the "fourth power." The first, second and third authorities are, respectively, the legislative, executive and judicial branches of government.
        1. Thrifty 26 March 2020 17: 46 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Halts hi -the most faithful version of their name "fifth column"! negative
          1. A. Privalov 26 March 2020 17: 54 New
            • 5
            • 2
            +3
            The Fifth Column, by definition, is a political group that secretly or explicitly opposes the basic policy of the state.
            If it were yours Journalists in your country, then you could call them that. In this case, these are Italian magazines and none of their columns touch me or you.
        2. 16329 26 March 2020 22: 36 New
          • 2
          • 1
          +1
          Of course, they work in accordance with the editorial policy, which is set by the structures that finance and support publications.
          There are no independent “quirky magazines” in any countries
          This is normal and logical.
      3. NICK111 26 March 2020 20: 36 New
        • 0
        • 1
        -1
        Poke on hand giving? Dear A.Privalov and Lean, 100% agree with you!
        Heal yourself and die yourself, Italiano Vero.
    3. Chaldon48 27 March 2020 00: 35 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      They don’t look at the gift horse in the mouth, let them rejoice that there is such a disinterested country in the world, Russia
  11. Svetlana 26 March 2020 17: 02 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    One likely reason is a couple of weeks backward. That is, if Italy is already at its peak, the rest are still on the rise.
    1. Azimuth 26 March 2020 17: 40 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      In Italy, the process of infecting people through honey has begun. staff. Plus a large influx of elderly patients. The doctors have been outraged by the outbreak, and now there are not enough personnel. So much for the interest ...
    2. reservist 26 March 2020 17: 41 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Germans seem to have three times as many infectious beds per capita as Italy
      Italians may have delayed the introduction of quarantine and as a result received “lines” to beds in intensive care units ...
      they also have a decent percentage of infected medical staff, whose presence in these conditions is also critical
      another such small example - the Germans closed kindergartens, including, but for doctors allocated / paid a nanny at the expense of the treasury, Italians don’t seem to have one ... probably from a lot of such "trifles" this or that result is formed ...
      1. Liam 26 March 2020 18: 16 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: reservist
        Italians don't seem to have that ...

        1000 euros per month per nanny were allocated to health workers. For the remaining categories, 600.
        Quote: reservist
        Italians hesitated with the introduction of quarantine

        Italians were the first to quarantine in Europe.
        Quote: reservist
        three more

        This is the average temperature in the hospital. The number of resuscitation places in a particular infection center is important. How many empty spaces 300 km from the outbreak is insignificant. When the lungs fail in patients, they are not very transportable.
        Who has milder forms of pneumonia or has already had a crisis and is transportable, they are transported to other regions and not only. In Germany, every day, patients from Italy are received
        1. reservist 26 March 2020 18: 29 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          Quote: Liam
          Italians were the first to quarantine in Europe.

          they started to enter from March 8, when there were already more than 300 dead and more than 7 thousand identified ...
          those. "delayed" - this is relative to February 21, when the first deceased appeared ...

          Quote: Liam
          This is the average temperature in the hospital. It is important the number of places in intensive care at a particular infection site.

          who argues, but it is unlikely that the Germans have all resuscitation beds in Berlin ...
          accordingly, for sure, they still simply do not have “lines” for resuscitation ...
          1. Liam 26 March 2020 18: 41 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            Quote: reservist
            started like

            The first death in Italy was on February 21, then the first cases of infected Italians appeared. In the zones where they appeared, Codogno, Vo (in only 10 settlements), quarantine with roadblocks and a ban on entry / exit was introduced on February 23. a week as there are no new cases by the way.
            A week later, around the first days of March, it became clear that there were much more zones and began to enforce quarantine en masse in different cities and entire regions. March 11, across the country
          2. Liam 26 March 2020 18: 44 New
            • 2
            • 1
            +1
            Quote: reservist
            but hardly

            But if in at least one German region the number and concentration of those infected is like in Italy, there will be exactly the same problems and numbers. This is already happening in Spain, France. The Germans later started and they already have Italian, Spanish experience and can understand what there are bottlenecks and what to do
          3. 32363 26 March 2020 19: 49 New
            • 2
            • 0
            +2
            Quote: reservist

            who argues, but it is unlikely that the Germans have all resuscitation beds in Berlin ...
            accordingly, for sure, they still simply do not have “lines” for resuscitation ...

            not yet, although Italy’s troubled regions are just 200-300 km from Germany’s borders, I’m only 600 km from Venice, and I live in the center of Bavaria, but we rarely see a masked person, we don’t have food, we don’t panic, we live and we’re quarantine measures as the situation requires.
  12. IL-64 26 March 2020 17: 40 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    I know one city near Moscow, where many people go abroad to work and where many foreigners come for periods ranging from weeks to years. So, from December to February, many residents suffered from what they called SARS, influenza and community-acquired pneumonia with symptoms very similar to coronovirus. There are currently no coronovirus infected. Maybe many have already been ill with them, some in mild, some in severe form?
  13. Mavrikiy 26 March 2020 18: 26 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    the Russian military brought to Italy "what is not needed to fight the coronavirus."
    Well, take to the EU, from the Germans and the French, what you need. angry
    Tomorrow, we’ll be billed for help. angry
  14. 32363 26 March 2020 19: 40 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    because the Italians are noble stars and even kiss when they greet each other
  15. NICK111 26 March 2020 20: 37 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Quote: NICK111
    Poke on hand giving? Dear A.Privalov and Lean, 100% agree with you!
    Heal and die yourself, Italiano Vero.
  16. Butchcassidy 26 March 2020 22: 11 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    The question is in the demographic structure. In Italy there are simply a lot of old people, that’s all.
  17. Angrybeard 27 March 2020 00: 22 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    The number of infected is similar but the percentage is completely different .. and the elderly in Germany to fig. Here is something else! And the form of infection, the virus seeps through quarantines, although it seems it should not. You need to search.
  18. A. Privalov 27 March 2020 10: 01 New
    • 2
    • 1
    +1
    With Italians, everything is clear. Despite all the measures taken by the state, indifferent citizens simply did not comply with quarantine.
    What this led to - everyone knows.
    But will this serve at least one of the present lesson?