Spain has completed tests of its own anaerobic unit for diesel-electric submarines

Project S-80 lead submarine at Navantia in Cartagena

The latest Spanish submarines of the S-80 project will receive a non-volatile power plant (VNEU). This was reported by the press service of the Spanish shipbuilding company Navantia.

According to published data, Navantia, together with Abengoa, completed a test program for a promising anaerobic power plant designed for the latest Spanish diesel-electric submarines of the S-80 project. It is reported that enterprises are already preparing for serial production of the installation. The first VNEU will be installed in July 2021 on the third Cosme Garcia submarine under construction, Project S-80. The first two submarines of this project will be built without VNEU, the addition of the system will occur after the introduction of submarines.

The Spanish non-volatile power plant for submarines of the S-80 project is based on the principle of bioethanol decomposition (BioEtOH) in special reactor processors with the production of high-purity hydrogen. The resulting hydrogen, together with oxygen, is supplied to the fuel cells. Oxygen is stored in liquid form in a cryogenic high pressure tank. The carbon dioxide obtained during the decomposition of bioethanol is removed overboard in a mixture with sea water.

The declared power of VNEU is "not less than 300 kW", and the duration of the stay and the course of the boat in the underwater position should be 15 days.

S-80 project diesel-electric submarines are 80,8 meters long and 11,68 meters wide. The displacement of ships is 3 thousand tons. S-80s can reach speeds of up to 19 knots. The submarines are armed with six torpedo tubes of a caliber of 533 mm for torpedoes and anti-ship cruise missiles.

In 2004, the Navantia shipbuilding company pledged to build a series of new submarines of the S-2 project for 80 billion euros in order to replace 4 diesel-electric submarines of the Agosta type of the Spanish Navy. The delivery of the head submarine was planned in 2011. However, miscalculations in the design led to the weighting of the submarine and problems with the ascent. Due to financial and technical problems, the construction of boats was delayed for a long period, and their planned cost increased from contract 1,756 billion euros to the currently planned 4 billion euros.

Comments

[Prahlad]

Yes, but everything is deaf in this direction. Sad it all

[Amateur]

we are all deaf in this direction.

Carrying liquid oxygen on board is cool as a kid. Read the history of Soviet boats of the A-615 series.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Amateur

Carrying liquid oxygen on board is cool as a kid.

And given that there is hydrogen there ...

[astepanov]

Quote: Piramidon

And given that there is hydrogen there ...

Hydrogen is not there. It is actually consumed at the time of receipt in the reactor.

[IL-64]

Liquefied oxygen is not a very dangerous thing. If the dewar is not heated and not drilled. No more dangerous inert gas fire extinguishing systems

[Ovrag]

Much more fun with the editor to ride. Yeah.
Remind. Which fleet in the world holds and continues to improve (poor losharik) a record for the number of incidents of varying severity with nuclear power plants on submarines?
As they say - everything is relative.

[Reserve buildbat]

At least we do not have such "overlaps" as overweighting the submarine by 1500 tons. with a shift in the center of gravity to the stern, plus a roll on I do not remember which side.
Based on their problems with weight and weight distribution, it would be naive to expect the imminent appearance of submarines, especially with VNEU. And advertising is always faster than thought This is evident by the stupidity of the videos.

[SSR]

Quote from rudolf

There is nowhere sadder, given the fact that they tested their VNEU in the late 80s on a 613 project. For Russia, the situation is shameful, as with UAVs.

On another branch, for writing that there are many pioneers and it’s time for us to deal with VNEU, the commentaries drove in minus More accurate comrade with such statements))) dadashkas have no shades.)))

[Scoun]

Quote from S.S.R.

Quote from rudolf

There is nowhere sadder, given the fact that they tested their VNEU in the late 80s on a 613 project. For Russia, the situation is shameful, as with UAVs.

On another branch, for writing that there are many pioneers and it’s time for us to deal with VNEU, the commentaries drove in minus More accurate comrade with such statements))) dadashkas have no shades.)))

Rum, I told you. - tell the truth, lose friends.
Either put on your panties, or take off the cross and do not worry. All the same, there are more "dunduks" in the world and they are not interested in more deaths in an accident than from the same war in Syria or the Caucasus.
They have zircons on DPL and calibers in their pockets.

[dauria]

For Russia, the situation is shameful, as with UAVs.

Americans do not build them at all. Neither diesels nor VNEU. Rented (like the Swedes), ride and spat. 300 kW - these are only trolling engines. Creeps slowly for 15 days. Full speed is still from the batteries, it means not for long. The Japs came to the conclusion that the section with additional batteries with the same weight and size gives almost the same effect without problems with liquid oxygen and the entire coastal infrastructure for its receipt and refueling. Dead end. It is ridiculous, but the Germans came to the same conclusion as early as the 43rd year, remodeling Walter’s boat from VNEU to the usual famous diesel engine of the 21st type. The prototype of modern diesel engines.

[bugagich]

Quote from rudolf

experienced back in the late 80s

80s? not a typo?

[bugagich]

yes, thanks. looked.
just somewhere long ago, I don’t remember even which author I read that we still had post-war projects with VNEU. based on the acquired German projects. however, we did not begin to build such ones - we took the path of the nuclear power plant.

[figwam]

Quote: Prahlad

Yes, but everything is deaf in this direction.

It is not known how such an engine circuit will show itself.

[Fedor Sokolov]

Why is it muffled! The St. Petersburg Maritime Bureau of Mechanical Engineering "Malakhit" is actively working on the creation of a small submarine P-750B with an anaerobic gas turbine engine.

[Tusv]

Quote: Prahlad

Yes, but everything is deaf in this direction. Sad it all

Why is it deaf? There are problems with the disposal of carbon dioxide. The option to release a mixture of sea water and carbon dioxide Our submariners are not satisfied

[Victor March 47]

Carry a liquid oxygen tank with you. A finished component of an explosive called oxyquiquit. Adding ANY organic matter makes an explosion. War is also bombing. Shaking can do what depth bombs did not.
A dubious advantage in terms of guarding the bases and the coast from enemy glands. Is 300 kW scuba diving a 5 knot move? Who will such a boat be hunting for? To hobble to the base when no one is chasing and bothering ....

[figwam]

Quote from rudolf

And cryogenic oxygen can be stored in the superstructure of the light body,

Now boats are being built without a light hull.

[Aqr009]

And cryogenic oxygen can also be stored in the superstructure of the light body, outside the durable.

Noisiness will increase, oxygen at the slightest temperature fluctuation loves to boil, and here its a whole tank overboard!

[Aqr009]

There is actually a rather complicated cryogenic oxygen storage unit.

Yes, it’s clear that not in barrels tied with ropes to the body
It’s just that if the installation is so complicated, then it probably makes sense to protect it from high overboard pressure, and then either build a second strong oxygen housing, or, well, don’t leave oxygen inside the main durable housing.

[Aqr009]

All of the hydraulics listed above are basically an oil seal system for tightness, etc.
Oh, oxygen does not understand such jokes. For example, even by the valve of an ordinary cylinder, in no case should gloves be taken if they have even a drop of oil on them !!!
In short, let the Spaniards crack their heads

[Avior]

from a different angle

[Avior]

when no one pursues and does not interfere, you can go on a diesel engine
but when they interfere and listen, another thing

[Avior]

I completely agree, many, in my opinion, do not understand this subtlety.
but it was about

To hobble to the base when no one is chasing and bothering ..

some theoretically possible case in which a diesel engine can be used

[cost]

Nuclear Submarine S80 (SPAIN) NON-NUCLEAR SUBMARINE S80 (SPAIN)

All S-80s will be assembled at Navantia shipyards in Cartagena. Submarine hull sections will be manufactured by BAe Systems Submarine Solutions. The S-80 diesel-electric submarine has a length of 71,05 m, a hull diameter of 7,30 m with a surface / underwater displacement of 2198/2426 tons. It is equipped with an air-independent power plant (AIP). The crew of the submarine will consist of 32 people. S-80 will be able to remain in the underwater position for up to 50 days and reach speeds of up to 20 knots (37,5 km / h). It is planned that the boats will be equipped with Tomahawk sea-based cruise missiles and 533 mm torpedoes, possibly DM2A4. Lockheed Martin, Kensberg, Reyteon, STN Atlas will take part in equipping the new project diesel-electric submarine with control systems and weapons. Recently, UTC Power has received a fuel cell contract for the S-80.

CHARACTERISTICS
Displacement, t: - surface 2198 - 2200 - underwater 2426 - 2430 Length 71,05 m Length of the strong body, m 51,76 Diameter of the strong body, m 7,3 GEM: air-independent power unit GEM power, kW 3500 Number of battery cells: 360 Power of electric generators, kW 3600 Speed ​​up to 20 knots Buoyancy margin,% 9,5 Autonomy in underwater position, days. up to 50 Crew 32 (+8) WEAPONS 533 mm torpedo tubes sea-based cruise missiles “Tomahawk” 533 mm torpedoes

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Rich

S-80 will be able to remain underwater for up to 50 days

Colleague! I beg you: be more critical of what the media write.

It was expected that with a non-volatile engine the boat could be under water without surfacing for up to 28 days, however, in reality this indicator does not currently exceed a week. (Oh how!)
Source: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/s80/ MTC "BASTION" AVKarpenko

For what the Germans are "engineered", and then they have 212 dives for no more than 25-27 days.
The second one. Nowhere is it said about the depth of immersion miracle sub! But it is unlikely that it will be more than 300m.
Power of the power plant = 3600 kW (3 units x 1200 kW), plus 2 g of AB, 180 "tanks" each, 360 elements in total. Travel speed also varies. Spanish sources indicate: surface -14uz, underwater - 22 knots.
In addition to the crew, the NPL can take another 8 people (military personnel). I think - combat swimmers. This is a serious weapon in the warm seas.
An interesting story with the cost of the project. from 1,75 billion euros, then - 2,135 billion euros, and finally - up to 3, 750 billion euros for 4 buildings and coastal infrastructure.

[Andrey.AN]

The only question is the availability of bioethanol in the war, how can you not merge diesel fuel from any barge.

[Amateur]

bioethanol availability in war

This is not a question. The crew will write and write, a little sugar, yeast and rubber gloves - here you have the source for bioethanol.

[Andrey.AN]

Well, to whom, of what, the range of the underwater course is certainly higher, it’s only strange if the captain for a thousand kilometers does not find where to emerge under the periscope for recharging. They like to drive a fleet with a biological factory, let them drive.

[astepanov]

Quote: Andrey.AN

The only question is bioethanol availability in the war

That bioethanol, that just ethanol - this is the same thing. By the way, "front-line 100 grams" - this was an aqueous solution of bioethanol, since vodka was driven only from vegetable raw materials. And one more thing: this is, of course, not an anaerobic plant, since oxygen is used. Anaerobic are battery and nuclear.

[V.I.P.]

Now Germany, Sweden, France, Japan (kawasaki with the support of SAAB), China and Spain produce VNEU ...... Apart from China, no one will sell us such. We need to exchange SPRN with VNEU or buy a license with it)). We ourselves cannot. They shouted at every corner that ours has no analogues, surpasses everyone and everything in everything (safe, cheap, good efficiency). Spent money and no result.

[KVK1]

but I read somewhere, that we have long been developed
and by 2024 they’ll already be producing everything .... or they’ll lay it down .... or they will create a project ... or a layout .... or ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: KVK1

but I read somewhere, that we have long been developed
and by 2024 they’ll already be producing everything .... or they’ll lay it down .... or they will create a project ... or a layout .... or ...

Or find it unnecessary.

[knn54]

As there is no result, a couple of millionaires have appeared. And maybe a billionaire.
And they forgot to list the DPRK on the list,

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

I don’t think that for Russian shipbuilders such a big problem is to add a cryo-oxygen cylinder to the submarine.
There is more to the question of expediency.

[kig]

Quote: V.I.P.

ours has no analogues

Well, the basic principle there is not so unique - an electrochemical generator. But the method of producing hydrogen for him really didn’t have analogues in the world fleet - it’s some kind of tricky process that allows you to get hydrogen from diesel fuel directly on board. The idea is good, even great: diesels aboard as you like, know to recycle yourself and use. Autonomy under water, again in theory, was supposed to exceed everything that has already been achieved by competitors. In addition, no additional mechanical noise is assumed during this process, which means (demon) noise is also at an altitude. Yes, it hasn’t happened yet.

[McDonnell Douglas]

Unfortunately, our military-industrial complex cannot offer anything other than fire hazardous batteries, therefore it is customary to consider anaerobic plants as unsafe.

[Proton]

Americans only build atomic plants and don’t worry, on which VNEU on a diesel engine, excess smut

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

For Americans, cruising range and autonomy are critical, here the nuclear power plant has so far no alternative.

[Werwulf_1989]

And what makes it difficult to make a submarine 2 times smaller than Borea and with 50 calibers instead of a Mace, but with a nuclear installation, instead of a diesel engine and anaenerba. In modern submarine warriors, it’s better not to come up at all.

[senima56]

Even the Spaniards have already passed us! It's a shame.

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

Personally, I do not quite understand the advantages of this scheme compared to conventional diesel-electric submarines.
And what kind of “reactor”, which turns the thermal energy of oxidation into mechanical?

[Seaflame]

No need to emerge (in the surface position, the submarine loses its main tactical property - stealth, i.e. more vulnerable). And diesel engines also unmask in terms of acoustics.

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

As far as I know, compressed air cylinders are used to solve this problem.

[V.I.P.]

An ordinary diesel engine should float to the surface and rumble on the engines, charging the battery. It does this very often, and at that moment it is noticeable both for PLO aircraft, and for satellites, and for enemy ships. If there is a VNEU, a month’s boat for recharging does not surface and find it much more difficult

[Andrey.AN]

If a diesel engine sits in place without consuming batteries to move, it is absolutely not necessary for it to often float up and charge, and if it has left the area of ​​operation, then you can look for it among thousands of other rattles, it will also refuel there, although there are already three diesel engines more autonomy is enough.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: V.I.P.

If there is a VNEU, the boat for recharging a month does not float and it is much more difficult to find it

To recharge, it may not pop up, but you need to clarify your place, RDO to send in accordance with the combat order / order and communication program - you need ... Yes, and I really want to swallow fresh air ...
So, at night (having received a report of hydroacoustics: - G / a, the horizon is clear!), You can lean out under the RPD, after raising the Ramp / Tide and the anti-aircraft periscope - that’s the most ...
AHA.

[Svarog51]

Alexander Why is everyone doing this at VNEU? Is it not possible to make a small reactor? It will turn out just the same. Or is there some other reason?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Svarog51

Why is everyone doing this at VNEU? Is it not possible to make a small reactor?

Greetings
1. VNEU can be installed on a submarine without violating the status of individual water areas. For this reason, our 1144 exited Leningrad / St. Petersburg under diesels. And having passed the Baltic Straits, they passed to the turbine from the PPU-YaEU.
And the second thing. As for Stalin, the goat was a "cow for the poor", and for some countries VNEU - a nuclear reactor "cheap", because VNEU is 4 times cheaper than a nuclear power plant. VNEU is good for boats in a curtain, at the turn of PLO, and so on "ambushes". High speeds are not needed, but "quietly" is the very thing: you charge the battery with low noise or drip along the line of sight, while - 3-4 knots can not be better for listening to the horizon.
2. We had a VAU-6, with a capacity of 600 kW, the Nerka project. Maintenance-free compact small-sized nuclear power plant with a boiling-point reactor. We redesigned 651 projects (B-68) for it, and it went with the "Dollezhal's egg" in trial operation for a whole YEAR, and not 10 years, like the 677 project. And from 1985 to 1993 she served faithfully as part of the 7 submarines of the KSF (v. Vidyaevo). The car was wonderful for its time. The submarine could go 7000 miles at 4,0 knots! 2000 hours of continuous operation, resource - 12000 hours. Tested to a depth of 240 m, while the installation ensured the operation of 2 HEDs and maintained a speed of 6,0 (!) Knots. It had remarkable weight and overall dimensions: dimensions - 6,5 x 2,9 m and weighed only 70 tons. And this despite the fact that the German VNEU on 212 projects weighed 200 (!) Tons and occupied a whole compartment!
But, in 1993, it all ended with the decommissioning of the BS-68 ...
This is "ce la vie!" - as the bracers say in the "French" manner!
But!

[Svarog51]

Well now everything is clear Still to get the decoder. From everything I realized that nuclear is not for all water areas. VNEU was, but something did not grow together. Did I screw up much?

[Andrey.AN]

Not only a hydroacoustic report, it’s not a problem to watch a satellite broadcast on your channel, the aerospace situation in the area. These floats are needed by any boat.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Andrey.AN

probably not a problem to watch satellite broadcasts on your channel, the aerospace situation in the area. These floats are needed by any boat.

Of course not a problem ... If:
- there is a satellite in the area above you (the flight program does not always coincide with the ability to hang on the periscope ...)
- Do you have TLV equipment KS. Connected / navigation - there is, and it is quite enough to get your place, or to throw / get RDO.
- there are a lot of such satellites to provide the submarine with the necessary info ...
Then, our systems can already store a place for up to 7 days with an accuracy that ensures the use of RO. You can and be patient, if on top of the "dog wedding" ... AHA!
Somehow, however.

[Andrey.AN]

it’s just that if any satellite hangs above you, maybe a subcontractor broadcasting in the parameters of a dedicated channel, the satellite Internet receiver threw it with a float and that's it.

[Boa kaa]

1. And which of the "space powers" will you send to the subchiki !? Maybe by the god of the exiled? Or indie-bhai-bhai together with kitais ??? Where have you seen such luxury - (inhuman communication?)
And in the war, everything that we launched is transferred to the control of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
2. "Sir! It's a pity to throw the receiver overboard every time ... So you can't save any receivers!"

[Svarog51]

About Jews, Indians and Chinese - it is clear, but what is the HF Armed Forces of the Russian Federation? And why should not the receiver be thrown back on board?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Svarog51

and what is the RF Armed Forces HF?

This is part of the Russian Aerospace Forces! Space troops whose units launch, track, correct and change their orbits, mission programs, etc. our spacecraft (spacecraft).

[Svarog51]

I already thought that the Supreme Commandant, just the opposite. And what about the receivers? Why not return them back on board?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Svarog51

And what about the receivers? Why not return them back on board?

Can you imagine what a RECEIVER and its antenna are !? The receiver is a RES, which is quite voluminous and heavy, with negative buoyancy. Well, why throw it overboard? And the receiving antenna of the CS is on board, along with other retractable ones ... And it should work in its own environment, and not become PBGA ... For some reason, I feel like it! Maybe I don't understand something, let smart people think about it. I'll know. In the meantime, I have only such infa.
AHA.

[Svarog51]

Alexander, I’m generally a signalman, but not a marine, I understand something, but not all. The specifics are very different, therefore I ask (maybe amateurish) questions.
P.S. Rudolph bow from me, there will be no more excesses, just let him keep his cool in comments. We’ll find a solution, we’re not deputies, but diplomats.

[Andrey.AN]

What am I talking about, a modern submarine that is normally equipped, can only detect an enemy submarine in the main, well, satellites, if the water is very clear, can see up to a hundred meters of depth when they are directly on top (and pointing such permissions is a hundred times more expensive than organizing a point bomb attack), and the boat can also be warned about this if their air is monitored in the area - aviation does not count, the acoustics will detect any anti-submarine ship before it becomes a threat. I don’t know, but if the operation for the boat is being developed correctly, only force majeure is against it, and VNEU does not play a role.

[Andrey.AN]

Rather, VNEU does not play a role, if there is no one to support the boat, if it plays, then not for long.

[Der visch]

Damn ... Already, Spain and VNEU overtook us .... Not everything is alright with us in the Navy. Build - build their original, but it doesn’t work out. Maybe it's time to buy from others?

[Ross xnumx]

Reading this:

Spain has completed tests of its own anaerobic unit for diesel-electric submarines

One involuntarily recalls a story when Soviet scientists could create everything that does not violate the laws of physics, and compare them with Russian highly effective managers who can spend any amount of budgetary funds on creating mock-ups that theoretically explain the principles and concept of operation of complex technical devices ...

[V.I.P.]

Soviet education was the best in the world. And now the group has thrown off money and set off any credit .... Yes, and performance indicators are needed for training organizations, so they put three in order to not worsen the indicators ..... By the way, they don’t accept a doctor’s diploma in the Russian Federation, but USSR accepted. Even Indians know how we are taught to be a doctor ......

[Aviator_]

As far as I remember, apart from the experimental boat "Sarov" (project 20120, in the fleet since August 2008) with VNEU and nothing. Does anyone make VNEU to the Spaniards, or is it themselves?

[Aviator_]

So, we don’t have anything on this part. One consolation is that the United States also has nothing.

[Aviator_]

That's what I'm talking about. We do not have a working prototype. Maybe VNEU have the same combat value as it was 60 years ago - the 615 project (that is, none), there was no combat use yet?

[Victor March 47]

Quote from rudolf

You won’t believe it, but there are a lot of things on the boats that can explode. Torpedoes, rockets for example. And cryogenic oxygen can also be stored in the superstructure of the light body, outside the durable.
And 5 nodes for NAPL is very decent. More often at 2-3 knots they are drinking.

So, you do not know that any explosive has parameters such as brisance, operability and SENSITIVITY. Let us dwell on sensitivity. Measured in centimeters. Tests are carried out on a sample of explosives, 50 grams, a kilogram steel ball-weight is thrown from a height. And when the explosive explodes, the height with which the ball is dropped is measured. So, hydroxyquit explodes on its own. TNT, I don’t know. But, according to the literature, a checker can be shot with a bullet and nothing .... To undermine a mixture of oxygen-sugar, oxygen-machine oil, a slightly elevated temperature is needed. Have you heard of a heap of grain, coal, peat spontaneous combustion? And this happens when the oxygen content is 21%. And here, the local content can easily be 100%. Bondarenko Valentin Vasilievich, a Soviet cosmonaut burned down in a sound chamber. The oxygen content of 35% and accident ruined it.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY

Personally, I do not quite understand the advantages of this scheme compared to conventional diesel-electric submarines.
And what kind of “reactor”, which turns the thermal energy of oxidation into mechanical?

300 kilowatt car. For tourist speed underwater, with a careful study of the bottom into the portholes. Like on Nautilus.

[Victor March 47]

Quote from rudolf

Thanks, of course. But if I begin to respond to your comment regarding the PL and within the framework of the TUZH PL, I’m afraid I will stop closer to the morning.

Go ahead. And do not stop at all.

[Kelwin]

This is still a big question, how will the operation end. Hydrogen is not the safest thing.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: V.I.P.

.By the way, a doctor’s diploma obtained in the Russian Federation in India is not accepted, and the USSR was accepted.

Do not write stupidity. Not archaic education, but throwing out of competition is quite decent. I do not mean Russian specialists, but specialists trained in Russia. In the 90 years, for example, Russian doctors and teachers were thrown out of health care and higher and secondary education in Tajikistan. They, you see, did not know the Tajik language. Especially necessary, of course, is the surgeon, knowledge of the local dialect. For, in a narcotic delirium on the operating table, the patient can say something there.
So, giving reasons, you yourself need to understand what it is about.

[Carib]

Quote: V.I.P.

......... By the way, a doctor’s diploma obtained in the Russian Federation in India is not accepted, and the USSR was accepted. Even Indians know how we are taught to be a doctor ......

Nekstati. Would you see how many young people from India study at the Perm Medical Academy ... I meet dozens of them every day, and different ...