The volume of modernization of TARKR "Peter the Great" will be significantly reduced

The planned and long-awaited modernization of the Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruiser (TARKR) will be held with an emphasis on repairing and updating the ship’s main power plant. It is reported by Mil.Press FLOT, citing a source in the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC).

According to the source, since the ship’s age is already considerable, carrying out a full modernization of the cruiser may require a number of experimental design work and significant funds. At the same time, the cruiser itself, unlike the Admiral Nakhimov of the same type, was not mothballed and is in much better condition.

The hull of the Project 1144 ships is quite durable and in case of timely dock repairs can last up to half a century

- said the source of the publication, adding that the main emphasis in the repair will be placed on the power plant, after updating which the ship can last a long time.

Earlier it became known that the Black Sea flagship was left without modernization. fleet Project-37 1164-year-old Moscow missile cruiser, Atlant code.

In early 2018, the USC announced that the modernization of the Peter the Great TARKR would begin in 2020 immediately after the same type of Admiral Nakhimov. It was planned to re-equip the cruiser with the new Onyx, Caliber and possibly Zircon missiles instead of the standing Granites. It was also expected that modern anti-aircraft missile systems, communication, navigation, life support systems, etc. will be installed.

"Peter the Great" - the fourth and last in a series of heavy nuclear missile cruisers of project 1144 (11442), code "Orlan". Laid down on April 25, 1986 at the Baltic Shipyard under the name "Yuri Andropov" and launched on April 25, 1989. Renamed to Peter the Great in 1992. He joined the Navy in 1998. Currently, the only "Orlan" to stay afloat.

Comments

[tlauicol]

zircons are delayed indefinitely?

[Machito]

I almost surprised this news. In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are being built quickly.

[Vladimir16]

And bearded men of all stripes shit on sites scattered quickly. Are you not lucky bearded man with the country? I wish you were born a black man in America, right?

[Machito]

I have never been abroad. And I’m not going to. I feel good in Russia. He served his two years. It will be necessary - I’ll shoot again, especially on mattress blacks Are you a suit specialist? Mustevy Vladimir

[nickname7]

And bearded men of all stripes shit on sites scattered quickly.

Yes, the bearded man is not right, the megayachts of the oligarchs, for which more money was spent than on the news of the Russian fleet, is a pride for the Russian Federation. Since these yachts are camouflaged warships dispersed in the ports of a potential enemy, they are ready to fight for the Russian Federation at any time.
Also a matter of pride is for example environmental friendliness, a yacht And this is a sailboat. So Melnichenko contributed to the reduction of carbon emissions.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Bearded

In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are quickly built

And all because they are not being built in Russia. And laughter and sin.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Bearded

I almost surprised this news.

this news with a beard per kilometer, they wrote about this in January

[vladcub]

"Chief, the mustache is gone. The plaster cast will be removed tomorrow" right?

[ZAV69]

Quote: Bearded

I almost surprised this news. In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are being built quickly.

In Russia, the yachts of the oligarchs are not built. The quality of the finish is not that. But funds for yachts in Russia are being mined.

[URAL72]

Maybe it's not about the money. They just want to reduce the repair time, because there are not enough DMZ pennants, and you need to demonstrate the flag. The risk of the third world is not high, because while frigates and 2 helicopter carriers, this is the ceiling for the surface fleet. I hope all the same, the economy and import substitution will pick up a decent pace, it will be possible to organize the training of specialists, then we will begin to work. There are already capacities, - a new super shipyard on Dalniy, Kerch, Feodosia.

[Bashkirkhan]

Most likely, the re-equipment of the Peter the Great TARKR under the UKSK is a large amount of work, which is very expensive and takes a considerable period of time. UKSK with "calibers" can be sacrificed as a last resort, it is better to remain without "calibers", but with a modernized collective defense air defense system and new radars and control systems.

[Petio]

Is it possible to add Caliber to simple 4x4 inclined launch installations? I think there will be a place on the ticket for a larger ship

[Grits]

Quote: Petio

Is it possible to add Caliber to simple 4x4 inclined launch installations? I think there will be a place on the ticket for a larger ship

So on "Pete" there are no inclined launchers. It's on Atlanta.
Although I also do not understand what is so great difficulty instead of launching "Granites" Install launching "Caliber" or "Onyx"? Indeed, on boats - Antey (Granite), such a procedure was provided.

[starpom]

Quote: Gritsa

So on "Pete" there are no inclined launchers.

Why do you think so. Just the same inclined and with a wet start

[Grits]

Quote: starpom

Just the same inclined and with a wet start

You surprised me. This is so much space to occupy under the deck!

[Alex777]

Go to the search, type "modernization of Nakhimov", look at the pictures on the search. You will see everything.
I do not mind. There are just a lot of interesting things.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Most likely, the re-equipment of the Peter the Great TARKR under UKKS is a large amount of work, which is very expensive and takes a considerable period of time.

EMNIP, launchers "Granitov" SM-233 on Project 1144 are maximally unified with launchers SM-225, which are on the SSGN of Project 949.
What prevents to carry out the same modernization as on the submarine - replacing one "granite" with three "calibers" / "onyx"?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Alexey RA

What prevents to carry out the same modernization as on the submarine - replacing one "granite" with three "calibers" / "onyx"?

Well, so far, the modernization of pr. 949A for glasses-inserts for "calibers / onyx" has not been completed. Regarding the modernization of Project 949A, they write that the first of them nuclear submarine "Irkutsk" will have to return to service in 2021, if again the deadlines do not go to the right. I personally doubt the advisability of upgrading this ship. "Irkutsk" was launched in 1987, commissioned in 1989, in the Pacific Fleet from the 90th. He served less than 10 years, not a single combat service and was put into reserve back in 1997, where he defended in Krasheninnikov Bay pending repairs. In 2001, transferred to FSUE "DVZ" Zvezda "in the settlement of Bolshoy Kamen, the repair began in 2014. It was withdrawn to the reserve pending repair in 1997, the completion date of the repair is 2021. The ship has changed its fourth ten, after repair and modernization it will not serve more than 10 years, then it will be expelled from the fleet. What is the point for this to spend huge funds on modernization, it is not clear. IMHO about carrying out such modernization on the TARKR "Peter the Great" with the installation of liners, it will be possible to speak after the completion of the modernization of pr. 949A.

[Alex777]

Regarding the modernization of Project 949A, they write that the first of them nuclear submarine "Irkutsk" will have to return to service in 2021, if again the deadlines do not go to the right. I personally doubt the advisability of upgrading this ship.

There was infa that they planned to build 2 Boreas with the Kyrgyz Republic. This option, according to all characteristics, will completely block 949AM.
And seriality for most systems will be, and 4th generation, etc., etc.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

There was infa that they planned to build 2 Boreas with the Kyrgyz Republic. This option, according to all characteristics, will completely block 949AM.

One does not interfere with the other, and work is carried out at different factories. This year, two more (in any case, they will sign a contract) of the Borei-A type will be laid. And the bookmark of a couple of the same is in question. And only after them (not earlier than 2 years later) it is possible to lay down 2 Borei-K. Plus time for construction, fine-tuning, entry into service. During this time, from 2 to 4 949s can be upgraded. After modernization, they will have enough resource for 15 years.
In total, it is desirable to have 6 units of this type of strike nuclear submarine in service at a time (Borei-K and 949) - 3 in each fleet. And this is quite possible.

[Alex777]

All 4 "Batons", which were going to be modernized - at KTOF EMNIP.
And Boreas, apparently, for the SF.

[nickname7]

I hope all the same, the economy and import substitution will pick up a decent pace

The economy is already at a decent pace, where the Russian elite lives.

[nickname7]

In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are quickly built

Not just yachts, but this is in some way the pinnacle of technology and design, they are crammed with the most.
It’s interesting if the oligarchs are all-around sea wolves and yachtsmen, because they could be dumped by capitalists, found a company, shipyard in the Russian Federation and make yachts, even with 30% localization, it was also possible to make different barges, river ships and boats and make money on it , and country jobs. So no, they don’t want to invest in Russia. The oligarchs are bad with patriotism.

[Alex777]

In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are being built quickly.

And where exactly are they being built in Russia? Share information ...

[Nikolay Ivanov_5]

Yachts for oligarchs are being built abroad.

[Alex777]

Here I can not disagree.

[Nikolay Ivanov_5]

The sad thing is that there is money for yachts, but not for ships.

[Alex777]

GTU and diesel engines for ships not the last 6 years in the right quantities.
Air defense does not bring to mind. The floaters are drowning. This is very sad.
The topic of money is ideological stamps of different colors.
What do you like about the pledged but unfinished 11356?
Money was invested and lay until the Indians saved.

[Nikolay Ivanov_5]

It's nothing. But when will they begin to build ships of the 1st rank?

[Alex777]

22350M - quite a ship of the 1st rank.
The project is developed. Bookmark dates sounded.
I don’t remember for memory. But you can find them by the simplest request.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Bearded

In Russia, only yachts for oligarchs are being built quickly.

They are not being built in Russia.

[Alexey from Perm]

the fleet is postponed indefinitely, no money, but you hold on))

[Alex777]

Personally, I have hope for a military trick.
So that the "partners" do not worry much in advance.
Peter is one of the few ships that I would like to see completely modernized.
One problem: there are no prepared locations for 1144.1.
IMHO, their absence quickly disabled these unique ships.
But hope leaves last ...

[TermNachTer]

Given the acute shortage of ships in the ocean zone, it is a reasonable decision. The capital can be made after the "Nakhimov" is put into operation.

[rosomaha]

Well, it began ... and after half a year they’ll say at all - we’ll do the repair and mustache ... they say it still meets the requirements of the time

[KrolikZanuda]

Kuznetsov leaked. Now they began to merge Moscow, Peter. A country cannot maintain the proper condition of ships of rank 1. Upgrade in a short time even more so.

[Alex777]

According to Kuznetsov, a strange story. Competent comrades there must understand.
As for Moscow and Varyag - 22350M they will be replaced. I hope for a decent series.
And the terms of construction and modernization will be the same.
IMHO lost time due to bringing new missile systems. First of all, air defense.
Where is the marine S-400? Upgrading 1164 made sense only for him.
IMHO money would be found if there was anything. On the Crimean bridge they found ...

[Oleg kubanoid]

I wouldn’t really take such news seriously, the management’s plans change often.
a lot will depend on Nakhimov .. how he will show himself, and build on this ..

[tomket]

Quote: Oleg kubanoid

a lot will depend on Nakhimov .. how he will show himself, and build on this ..

For about 25 years "Nakhimov" will serve, it will show itself as it should. Let's think about five godkov, and how we will turn around !!!!! Wow, hold on to the adversary !!!! How we modernize "Petra" !!!!!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Oleg kubanoid

Management plans change frequently.

here you are right. Plans change, but not in the direction that you are painting. As a rule, they claim a grandiose modernization - but in the end it turns out in the best case, repair

[Thrifty]

This is a confirmation of the fact that an acute shortage of specialists has long been the main factor in the repair and modernization of warships! In newspapers, advertisements from the same "Sevmash" about the recruitment of SPECIALISTS of one profile or another have been weighing for years, as on specialized Internet resources! But young people are not in a hurry to go there, because they have disaccustomed them to work physically! To trade, yes, but to DRIVE a shift without a break, not for him! I know a welder, he worked there, the group now does not give him the opportunity even to go to the dacha. He says that he would like to go to the shipyard because there is a catastrophe with people. ..

[tomket]

Quote: Thrifty

But, the youth is not in a hurry there, because they taught her to physically work!

Well, you work hard day and night often for less money than to trade. Where do you think young people will go to work?

[Maxwrx]

I agree. The labor market is a common market, why work hard for 30 thousand, if you can not work hard for the same 30 thousand. Moreover, you need more in-depth knowledge, somewhere to unlearn, gain experience

[tomket]

Quote: MaxWRX

I agree. The labor market is a common market, why work hard for 30 thousand, if you can’t work hard for the same 30 thousand. Moreover, there you need more in-depth knowledge, somewhere to unlearn, to collect about

Because we have the metro in Moscow, the Chinese are already digging at an accelerated pace.

[Maxwrx]

All state-owned companies are not economically effective in principle. They can perform only social functions (for example, Russian Post). The state share in the economy is 70% (in the USA 28%), therefore it is not surprising why the economy is growing so poorly

[Alexey RA]

Quote: MaxWRX

All state-owned companies are not economically effective in principle. They can perform only social functions (for example, Russian Post). The state share in the economy is 70% (in the USA 28%), therefore it is not surprising why the economy is growing so poorly

You still forgot to add the words perestroika, publicity and new thinking.
All this we already heard a quarter century ago. And now we see the result of managing a private entrepreneur: instead of factories - offices. warehouses and houses, instead of their products - Chinese consumer goods or products from countries rotting west.
Transfer Sevmash into private hands - in a year it will not be. It will be devoured in relatively fair competition by the same Korean shipyards - a shipyard near the Arctic Circle will not survive simply due to the notorious isotherm.

By the way, it was under the mantra about the inefficiency of state-owned companies that Viktor Stepanovich turned his Mingazprom into the Gazprom corporation with three signatures back in the USSR.

[Maxwrx]

Yes Yes Yes. Does the world experience tell you anything that private business is much more rational? This is in all countries. Everything that you buy in the store is created by private companies. There will be no Sevmash, well, to hell with it, because he is not in the market, or let his military keep it. Why is labor productivity in Europe and the United States higher than in Russia several times, sometimes tens ?? There, people walk many times faster, do they have more hands or think better? No, they do not contain inefficient enterprises, which everyone has to pay for! Hence, the majority have such a low z.p. And by the way, I am the owner of my own manufacturing company built with 0.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: MaxWRX

There will be no Sevmash, well, to hell with it, because he is not in the market, or let his military keep it.

So they contain it - the plant lives on military orders.

Quote: MaxWRX

No, they do not contain inefficient enterprises, which everyone has to pay for!

It was precisely under these spells of inefficiency and loss-making that effective managers killed the American atomic industry. More precisely, its most important enrichment part.
Why invest in the re-equipment of their factories, why suffer with centrifuges, if you can cheaply buy Russian know-how? And they paid extra.

[Maxwrx]

There is a world market, each country essentially specializes in something, conditionally Germany cars, Argentina meat. Why do you buy Chinese products when there is a Russian one of the same quality, but more expensive?

[Alex777]

All state-owned companies are not economically effective in principle.
And by the way, I am the owner of my own manufacturing company built with 0.

Colleague! I lived in America for 9 years. Stamford, CT.
Please do not tell me about what you read in the propaganda.
Boring and uninteresting.

[Maxwrx]

I say that I myself see, and not listen to propaganda

[Alex777]

Then tell the Chinese about inefficient state-owned enterprises. Millions will laugh.

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

And by the way, I am the owner of my own manufacturing company built with 0.

===
not one of those that buy-wrap-sell !? although, as the people say, fishlessness and cancer are fishless.

[Maxwrx]

No, a full-fledged metalworking enterprise. Modern turning, milling machines with CNC, etc.

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

No, full-fledged metalworking enterprise. Modern CNC turning and milling machines, etc..

===
it pleases, success!

[Maxwrx]

Thank you, but that’s how the situation is, now it’s profitable for me. But it will be profitable to engage in resale, I will do it. I want to say about this, the business itself will understand and do everything. If the state wants to develop some areas, you just need to create conditions, and not interfere. How much state threw money on a superjet, and what is the result, and compare it with Boeing and Airbus, which do everything at their own expense.

[Alex777]

But with Boeing, you successfully entered ...
400 aircraft 737 MAX built and no one takes.
In addition to the compensation program for forward new engines, which the pilots did not know about, they found a lot of things. From debris and tools in the fuel tanks in the wings, to other systems that have not been working for a long time. How did this aircraft pass certification? How does a Boeing want to get through it now?
Not a single order for this year against 286 with AIRBAS.
All the prosperity of the Mask in space is based on the development of NASA and its engineers. It's just that those who need to get profit from everything that has been accumulated in NASA to the Mask. In fact, NASA is a government agency famously privatized by businessmen.
Sound familiar?

[Maxwrx]

Boeing problems could happen to everyone. This is their fault, criminal fault. I am surprised that no one was detained there. And the state must monitor such things more closely. There is also a problem with their space ship. By the way, the deer gene was fired. If you read about the superjet (state money), it also does not meet high safety - flammable materials where there should not be any, there is no normal margin of safety (the rack broke off when the load was exceeded, it was only 1,4 times) although at least 2 were always laid on everything , problem with preparation, software, availability of spare parts, engine. There are Aeroflot statistics in the public domain, everything is very, very sad.
Do not belittle the mask. I have been following spaceics from the start. I think he's done. NASA developments, no matter how! Implementation of reusability of the 1st stage, ship, fairings at NASA was not in the plans. Yes, they provided ALL interested companies with their unused engineers, test sites, space centers, etc. but for some reason only spaceics could turn these capabilities into an excellent result. He completely knocked out a proton from commercial launches. Why Roskosmos having the same engineers, infrastructure, etc. so crap with rockets that we completely lost the market. With Russian salaries.
Nasa is as clumsy a dinosaur as Roskosmos. Having a budget of 7 times more than ours, they also spend time and money.

[Alex777]

NASA developments, no matter how!

You are simply not in the subject. I see no reason to argue.

[Maxwrx]

links to the studio

[nickname7]

private business is much more rational

This is provided that if a business creates a company from 0, but it will be effective, but if something does not want to create a shipyard, the state would not be willing to place an order with them.

[Maxwrx]

Supply is also created under demand. Nobody wants to contact our state-owned company, although 5 years ago it would be the main customer (90%), and now 10% probably not. I have clients who say there are products, we want not to buy them, but to produce them in Russia at such a price in such a volume. Some are even willing to pay for all the equipment. Everything is done under their needs.

[Alex777]

but that nobody wants to create a shipyard, the state wouldn’t have to place an order with them.

Have you forgotten about Pella? Very nice shipyard.
True, there is a lot in the internet about what happened to her after the state order. Unfortunately.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Alexey RA

Transfer Sevmash into private hands - in a year it will not be

Sevmash is absolutely uncompetitive. Its only advantage is its geographical location, access to the open ocean. Well, the proximity to the points of deployment of the SF.
Building something other than submarines there is absolutely unprofitable.
Even surface ships make more sense to build even in St. Petersburg, although the climate there is not sugar, but at least the logistics of supplies are much more convenient.
And so, for commercial shipbuilding you need to use the Black Sea. It's good that the Kerch Shipyard "Zaliv" was revived. True, the bridge now complicates the output of finished products.
Well, in the Far East, too, the climate seems to be softer, and the shipyard seems to already be there. But supply logistics will be hellish.

[Alex777]

It's good that the Kerch Shipyard "Zaliv" was revived. True, the bridge now complicates the output of finished products.

It's good that the "Zaliv" was revived.
But what does the bridge have to do with it?
Look, the bridge doesn’t interfere at all:
https://zalivkerch.com/

[Rzzz]

Sorry, in a coma wrote. When I realized that I had misplaced, it was too late to edit. Hoping that no one would notice.
I did not have a very good idea of ​​the geography of Kerch. I have not been to the city itself, once I went across the strait on a steamer. I thought the bridge was slightly to the south, cut off the "Bay" from the sea.

[vadimtt]

Yes, it’s normal in the Far East with logistics, China is nearby

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

All state-owned companies are not economically effective in principle. They can perform only social functions (for example, Russian Post). The state share in the economy is 70% (in the USA 28%), therefore it is not surprising why the economy is growing so poorly

===
) and due to what "effective" grew. No companionship if the "manegers" are the same there and there? without state support / benefits / tax evasion / low wages for workers, they would have gone down the drain long ago

[Maxwrx]

No, they go to the state company either to steal, or to a warmed place. And in the commercial who can and wants to work. Everyone pays taxes now, don’t tell me laugh, but just the tax benefits and preferences of large state-owned companies! No state support, market salaries

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

Not ,go to the state company or steal, or on a warmed place. And in the commercial who can and wants to work. Everyone pays taxes now, don’t tell me laugh, but just the tax benefits and preferences of large state-owned companies! No state support, market salaries

===
Do not tell (especially about market salaries) and you. everywhere the same people work (in the public sector and private) and with the same mentality (in total and faster). there are probably efficient companies, honest entrepreneurs, but they are negligible.

[Maxwrx]

If the salary is not market, no one will come to you. I work in Moscow. I don’t take with the Soviet mentality at all, I have all the guys no older than 35 years old, and the minimum wage is 80 thousand. Only one woman is 55 years old, but she has no questions, she copes with her work, her sz. 114 thousand

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

If the salary is not market, no one will come to you. I work in Moscow. I don’t take with the Soviet mentality, I have all the guys who are not older than 35 years old, and the minimum wage is 80 thousand. Only one woman is 55 years old, but there are no questions for her, she is coping with work, her s.p. 114 thousand

====
the Soviet mentality has built a power to which modern Russia grow and grow. but the enrichment mentality at all costs (or faster and faster) was born / strengthened / established in post-Soviet Russia. as for your salaries, against the background of 20 thousand in the country?!. Yes, Moscow (with its own special speculative market), new machines, running products, good work organization, honest and obligatory employees, but there is certainly another side, it’s hard to believe in the current altruism, excuse me, I’m familiar with modern businessmen.

[Maxwrx]

And who ruined the Soviet Union, not the people in which they lived? Over time, all the bad things are forgotten, before and x .. stood and the women were more beautiful. What is speculation if I interrupt the prices of conditional Chelyabinsk, China. This is a common market. Why Chelyabinsk can not give the same price as mine? Salaries are much lower, consider rent free (I have 500 rubles per month), I have electricity 9 rubles / kW. I traveled across Russia to various enterprises and realized that for the most part, nobody knows how to work beyond 40 km. There is no altruism, I pay exactly this s.p. so that people do not leave me and, if necessary, to attract new ones, I simply raise everyone by 10-20% above the market. And this is only natural for my personal, not social gain.

[Victorio]

Quote: MaxWRX

And who ruined the Soviet Union, not the people in which they lived? Over time, all the bad things are forgotten, before and x .. stood and the women were more beautiful.

====
it was ruined by people who want everything at once

Quote: MaxWRX

Why Chelyabinsk can not give the same price as mine? Salaries are much lower, consider rent free (I have 500 rubles per month), I have electricity 9 rubles / kW.

====
so ask Chelyabinsk why he cannot give such a price

Quote: MaxWRX

and realized that farther than 40 km from Moscow, for the most part, nobody knows how to work

====
))) alright enough. walk yourself past, with a star in your forehead

[Grits]

Quote: tomket

Because we have the metro in Moscow, the Chinese are already digging at an accelerated pace.

Yes, we have long understood that all the money that could go to build ships is safely buried in the ground in the form of a metro in Moscow.
For Muscovites in the bastard ride a trolley bus or bus, as in all other cities of the country.

[mark1]

Quote: Thrifty

In newspapers, advertisements from the same "Sevmash" about the recruitment of SPECIALISTS of one profile or another have been weighing for years, as on specialized Internet resources!

That's it for YEARS! During this time, with normal leadership, you can open a specialized educational institution for a long time and prepare specialists and not rummage around our endless country and through the back streets of the country and not lure each other.

[Grits]

Quote: mark1

During this time, with normal leadership, you can open a specialized educational institution for a long time and prepare specialists and not rummage around our endless country and through the back streets of the country and not lure each other.

Yes there are educational institutions. And schools and universities specialized. I worked there in the 90s. But, apparently, all the same, there are not enough specialists. Unlearned to work.

[mark1]

Quote: Gritsa

I worked there in the 90s.

Are they working now? We also had a lot of specialized vocational schools, technical schools, in the 90's and 00's they somehow dragged out and by the age of 10, as Georges Miloslavsky used to say, “self-liquidated” and now the same shortage of personnel.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Thrifty

In newspapers, advertisements from the same "Sevmash" about the recruitment of SPECIALISTS of one profile or another have been weighing for years, as on specialized Internet resources!

Therefore, there are no SPECIALISTS who weigh ads for the reception of SLAVES.

[Ovrag]

Well, why are you ranting. Go and work hard.
Only
a) To work hard is the lot of the last century. Modern production involves strong automation. For example, in machining for 10 CNC machines there will be 1 operator. Which works head.
b) As long as you work hard - "top managers" (of course they are not real top managers, since their management skills are at the level of Vasya's loader. But they steal no worse than Vasya, adjusted for volume), they will receive ten to twenty a hundred times more.

So, if you like slave labor, on gentlemen, where a fortune is squandered on you - well.
Sevmash needs slaves.

[Dikson]

Maybe there simply are no specialists left in the country who remember how to debug and operate fuel oil boilers from the middle of the last century? And other ship mechanisms? Lawyers and managers can’t be assigned to hold operators, and you can’t put the puny boys-consultants from the fashion department at the helm? And where to find a qualified welder, if the plumbing is all on plastic pipes? And the ship is iron ..

[Ovrag]

Yes, everything is there. Believe me. There are modern production facilities. Even in a small mashstab (nevertheless, there are several enterprises in St. Petersburg with a huge fleet of modern CNCs, including military orders). There are welders and installers. Everything is. But they have to pay. And if they pay normally. And the conditions are normal to provide. It will no longer be possible to maintain a huge staff of parasites in the offices of Sevmash and Moscow, where there is a lot of people, kumas and children of officials. Where even the cleaning lady has a three-digit salary.
The situation is the same as everywhere else. Take the same Russian Railways with its Transmashholding.
And for food for gentlemen, nobody wants to work. Therefore, all specialists have long been in commerce.

[fk7777777]

Yes it's true...

[Ovrag]

Live example. A man of 20 years cooked ships in shipyards. For albeit not quite a penny, but nevertheless by modern standards, ridiculous money. Tired of it. Went to commerce. I opened a service for cooking exhausts for cars, etc. So after the first customers spread a rumor about the quality of his work (and it is excellent), a person has no end to orders. No Aslambeks were lying nearby. At the same time, the price tag does not oppress. And it keeps the price quite in the market.
And here is the question. Why would he go back to work hard for the same 50-60 thousand, when he now puts twice as much into his pocket even in a hungry month? And then he also has his own schedule as he conveniently drives.

[Sergej1972]

Do not laugh, but maybe the only way out is a four-day working week or a shortened working day with a normal salary. Perhaps, subject to these conditions, young people will go there to work.
Just four-day workers deserve.

[Alf]

Quote: Sergej1972

Do not laugh, but maybe the only way out is a four-day working week or a shortened working day with a normal salary. Perhaps, subject to these conditions, young people will go there to work.
Just four-day workers deserve.

To work on such a schedule, you need modern equipment and highly qualified personnel.
The question is, why should the owner spend money on superstations, if it is easier to buy the NTs-31 s16A20 and repair them every day, shouting at the workers, why are you working so slowly?
Question-specialist needs to be PAYED, and not to issue unemployment benefits as it is now.
The third question, but where to get specialists who not only know how to work on these machines, but also have experience? This needs to be prepared, but it’s costs and time, will the capitalist go for it? No, he needs the state to prepare a specialist, and so he will take the worker to himself.

[Ovrag]

What does the capitalist have to do with it?
The capitalist can just go for the purchase of new equipment. Top because in the world of the 21st century, technological superiority over a competitor is often an overwhelming advantage.
Only this has nothing to do with our realities. The state, like a fish, "rots from the head." And here we are not talking about any individual persons. It's about the system. The state is, first of all, a system of extraction, distribution and control of resources among the population and its ruling elite. These resources can be very different. From real money to ephemeral "talented brains". But the principle is simple. Depending on what resource is fundamental / dominant in the state - we get such a state at the output. And here, if in two words - when you have only the calloused hands of the people from your resource. We'll have to rely on this people and their production by hand. Thus, we received almost all modern industrial centers of Southeast Asia. Acc. other institutions in the state are already working with this distribution. Once a valuable resource people. This means that all kinds of institutions of power (judicial, executive, etc.) will be built around them.
The reverse side of the coin. When the main resource does not depend on people in any way. When the main source of state revenue is the sale of raw materials, which will always be controlled by a fairly small number of people, the whole system is built around the extraction and sale of these resources. In the case of Russia, where only according to official data a third of the economy is provided with oil and gas, the situation is quite typical. And not only oil and gas are united. In addition to oil and gas, the main sources of revenue for the state are various ore and non-metallic minerals and wood. And some kind of really very small% received by the state from people. Moreover, obtained in the form of an internal currency. And not external. And since the state is an export, the foreign currency is much more important for it. The result is quite typical. All institutions of power are formed primarily with the task of ensuring the flow of funds from these resources.
Well, the rest is just a consequence. The people, in fact, are not needed by the state. He's more of a burden to him. This means that you don't need medicine, you don't need some kind of strong education, as a result, you don't need specialists, and so on. And in general from them only one more problem can be. Since they can also begin to claim the redistribution of these very resources. Which is clearly not to the liking of people who have already "shared everything." Well, at the output we get what we have. Lawlessness, theft, telephone law, etc., etc. Not because all of a sudden people are all bad, no. It's just that all this exists on a residual principle.
And here we could say, look at the USA - here they are also rich in resources. And yes. And no. at the time of the formation of the state, the United States drove only cotton for export (as a result, it got a backward south). And by the time the United States fully entered the era of superstate, most of the institutions formed on the basis of human resources. Which in the future made it possible to fairly well balance the most diverse groups of influence. Well, they also have a super-invention - English law. Which, unlike Roman, is much better at dealing with the cause of the sobering up of society. But it’s already particular gone.

[Alf]

I absolutely agree with you!
But this phrase

Quote: Ovrag

This has nothing to do with our realities.

what is happening in Russia explains everything absolutely clearly. The current government needs nothing but the extractive industry.
And as for the capitalist, I do not agree with you. The fact is that the capitalist is only interested in one concept, profit. And he will not invest in long-term and, possibly, unsuccessful projects; he lives on tactics, but not strategy. Fundamental science does not interest him.

[Ovrag]

If that were so. There were no investment projects with a payback of half a century or more. There would be no Ilon Maskov and so on and so forth. Capitalism is different. And the more stable the institutions of power, the more often capital is ready to invest in long-term projects. Do not forget about competitive niches yet. There are many people who want to cut dough here and now. But the players in the long, much less. And it will always be very serious people.

[pmkemcity]

Quote: Ovrag

Well, they also have a superinvention - English law

And what do you see the benefits of English law? The usual thieves' law of the strong. Continental law is the right of the weak. The point is not in the law, the point is in its execution.

[Ovrag]

The power of precedent. She is not absolute. But it makes the judge think about the consequences of his decision. With us, it is possible to pronounce completely different sentences on identical cases, purely at the request of the left heel.

[pmkemcity]

Similarly, these precedents and twist. If the judge applied the law not according to his inner conviction, but by virtue of that law, then there would be no questions whatsoever. We are trying now to introduce competitiveness in the process, that is, to eliminate the judge, as the bearer of sacred knowledge, and to make a notary out of him, only fixing the result of the dispute. This again leads to the right of the strong, the one who can hire a good lawyer.

[Ovrag]

Twist. Therefore, I say that this is not an absolute. Absolute, in principle, no. But turning the precedent is much more complicated than the law, which, as you know, is like a drawbar.
When one is 5 years in prison and the other is released by parole in the courtroom. Under the same article for the same crime.

[pmkemcity]

They are also trying to promote case law here, not because it is better, but because the quality of the judges is very low and tends to zero in the future. A judge, a prosecutor, an investigator, and more recently, a lawyer (not to confuse a person with a legal education) have become professions of family clans. The rulings of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation, which are supposedly binding on the lower courts, are those precedents. But often, the courts very often lay a large bolt on them, a nut on which is tightened by the appellate court and it is simply impossible to go further into the cassation or supervision.
Our scourge is the judge’s irresponsibility for a knowingly unjust decision. As a matter of fact, the irresponsibility of the investigator, and especially the prosecutor, approving the indictment.
For me, this would be done for the annulment of the court decision - a fine to the judge in the amount of the decision made, and to the prosecutor a term in the amount of the requested punishment.

But the case was not postponed,
And announced the verdict -
And they gave everything that I should
Plus, the prosecutor made me five.

My lawyer wanted to be honest
For my so funny temper
And the prosecutor asked all the severity
And he was, in my opinion, wrong.
AT . Vysotsky

[Ovrag]

And the USSR did not die in '91. And long before. When, after many years of trying to rely specifically on human resources, a fateful decision was made to stop all this fuss and again place a bet on the sale of resources abroad. Only if under the Tsar they brought furs and wheat, now oil and metals. And that’s it. Not so many years will pass when it will come to the ruling elite that this entire industrial complex has not come up against. And instead of bringing resources, he basically devours them.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Vladimir16

And bearded men of all stripes shit on sites scattered quickly. Are you not lucky bearded man with the country? I wish you were born a black man in America, right?

Better, of course, blue in the Mordovian colony. Fame and needs like hot cakes.

[Runoway]

You can already scare enemies as Kuzyu

[Warrior MorePhoto]

Why is he so needed?
In real hostilities, he will not catch a single missile, he will not see a single F 35 in 150-200 km, and given that he will be actively and seriously attacked, this is the grave of the entire crew, and not a small one!
Brad!
And what have they been doing for so many years, haven't OCD installed Caliber, Zircon, etc.? Anew OCD?
Fairytale only pours in the ears with its loud statements, but in fact we have what we have: Zero Su 57, Zero Armat, Zero Coalitions and further down the list

[mark1]

Quote: Warrior StillTot

In real combat, he won’t catch a single missile,

Will catch! How many more will catch!

Quote: Warrior StillTot

And what have they been doing for so many years, haven't OCD installed Caliber, Zircon, etc.? Anew OCD?

Not only that, they also do the same type "Nakhimov"! But here - a number of rivets are apparently made in a different configuration.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mark1

Not only that, they also do the same type "Nakhimov"!

The same type?
There are no ships of the same type in the 1144 series (however, the same parsley from 1143). The only thing they have in common is "Granites" with their PU. But the set of SAM, ZAK, artillery, anti-submarine weapons, radar for each of the TARKR is unique.
The same "Peter the Great" is absolutely unique - its bow and stern air defense systems are of two different types.

[mark1]

Of course, we will not reduce everything to the VAZ conveyor, but nevertheless there is no particularly deep difference between the two ships of pr. 1144.2, which requires for each individual separate NIIR to bring to a new common denominator.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mark1

Of course, we will not reduce everything to the VAZ conveyor, but nevertheless there is no particularly deep difference between the two ships of pr. 1144.2, which requires for each individual separate NIIR to bring to a new common denominator.

By and large, “Nakhimov” and “Petr” have completely different air defense systems. "Nakhimov" - S-300F and "Osa-M", "Peter" - S-300FM, S-300F and "Dagger".

[mark1]

If everything is saved and repaired, then yes (option w.b.lyu.do.ch.n.s.o.y, modernization) if everything is changed then it does not matter.

[nickname7]

So they promised that soon, or do you not believe in promises?

[Rzzz]

Quote: Warrior StillTot

we have Zero Su 57, Zero Armat, Zero Coalitions and further down the list

How is that zero? And at the parade?

[Konatantin 1992]

Well, this is "normal" news, it seems to me that we had to get used to such news lately ... It's a pity, but the Russian fleet is gradually becoming coastal, there is no former greatness that was during the bloody and sick USSR

[Whalebone]

But on TV, solid victory. The whole world is already bent. Our hypersound. We have no analogues and all that.

[vladcub]

There may be several reasons for "the scope of modernization to be significantly reduced": the funds, it turned out that the ship is in better condition than expected, there is not enough qualified specialists, and what specific reason we can only guess.
I do not exclude the possibility that the reporters misinterpreted or for some reason are silent about something. For them, the most important sensation.
How much "fried" can be extracted from: "with an emphasis on the repair and renewal of the power plant". Soviet power plants do not meet safety! The Russians are in a hurry to renovate! The Russians do not have enough missiles, etc., and this is money!

[Grigory_45]

Quote: vladcub

it turned out that the ship is in better condition than imagined

The ship, before determining the scope of work, the time required by the ROC, the required funds, carefully examined. Make an estimate and schedule.
The reason, as it seems, is banal to the impossibility - there is no money, but ... and so it will come down ((

[fk7777777]

So far, only traffic is)))

[pmkemcity]

the complete modernization of the cruiser may require a number of development work and significant funds.

In short - technology is lost ...

[fk7777777]

The specialists are all gone, but the Pepsi generation, which may ...

[JD1979]

Yes, why is he needed at all?))) Aframaxes are there, they are needed, they carry oil))) And hang out near the port and the MRC is enough)). But seriously. It’s just nothing at the moment to upgrade it. Some complexes are being tested in a single copy, some are only being designed, and about ship hypersonic only rumors. Updating individual systems makes no sense.

[Warrior MorePhoto]

Quote: mark1

Quote: Warrior StillTot

In real combat, he won’t catch a single missile,

Will catch! How many more will catch!

Quote: Warrior StillTot

And what have they been doing for so many years, haven't OCD installed Caliber, Zircon, etc.? Anew OCD?

Not only that, they also do the same type "Nakhimov"! But here - a number of rivets are apparently made in a different configuration.

He’ll catch ... are we talking about the 300s of the 90s?
Peter 1 is probably being converted from such a fleet and a ship named after him.
Honestly - this is shame and shame!

Are the rivets there different? And more than 1000 people, what is meat there?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Warrior StillTot

He’ll catch ... are we talking about the 300s of the 90s?

Seems to me that under "will catch" It was meant "will catch the hull and superstructure".

[fk7777777]

In order to modernize, they will modernize modernization, this is not for you, pig-iron fluffs with a luck will install the roosters themselves, and the sails and .... Generally the fleet should be, but the truth is not indicated in what condition ...

[Dikson]

For some reason, it seems that the gentlemen modernizers urgently need another fire on the ship .. Well, so that reports "correct" can be composed later ... about the work performed ...

[awg75]

time of huge targets irrevocably leaves.

[askort154]

Laid down on April 25, 1986 at the Baltic Shipyard under the name "Yuri Andropov" and launched on April 25, 1989.

Oh, there was a pace in our time!

[serg2108]

Somehow God decided to demote Vova and Dima to ordinary workers - welders, well, he called them to his "carpet". They stand at attention in front of him in astonishment, their eyes clapping.

- People often complain about you to me, ordinary workers, they say they destroyed the factories, they raised their retirement age, they got beggarly wages .. I decided to demolish you and send you to the factory as ordinary welders.

Dima and Vova did not have time to understand anything, as they immediately found themselves at one of the large factories in the outback. They gave them a tarpaulin robe, domestic electrodes and sent to cook the parts. With fright, they zealously began to carry out what was entrusted .. and time passed.

Exactly a month later, they again found themselves in front of God - all the grimy ones, eyes on the roll out, waiting for alms.

- I give you a salary, like all the men at the factory received. Well, and for greater prevention, work another month and live on the money.

Another month passed and Vova and Dima lost weight and became haggard again on the carpet with God.

- I see my prevention has worked. So be it, I am returning you to your previous posts, just remember: do not change the situation in the country - you will again be at that plant.

Vova and Dima were again in the Kremlin. They drank hard and decided to go home, eat, relax and think about how to act, and the next day to get together and make a plan.

The next day they are going, well, Vova asks Dima what, they say, he came up with.

- Vova, we have not been able to change anything for all these years and will not be able to. We will be at the factory 100% again. I bought myself good electrodes and a good mask so that my eyes do not hurt. The wife of canned food gathered ... - crying mumbled Dima.

- you, Dima ... What would you all do without me ?! I sold the plant a sutra to the Germans, now there are surely good salaries there - we won’t be lost!

* The situation is fictitious, all coincidences are random. It is recommended to perceive only as humor.

[vladcub]

Cool. 5 for humor

[5-9]

Well, why is he, modernized by and large needed? Will he be able in theory to go to okiyan, to find (which is important) and to gobble up AUG with 2 AVU? So when he emerges from the sea to the ocean, the evil hegemon is afraid to bomb this friendly and dear ... mmm ... Philippines or Madagascar? No. And if not, then what's the difference? Or, in Bastion, will he suddenly get up and all the Verge and the Elk will flee in fear and dare not dare to poke themselves, and the Boreas will frolic in safety and smile? Nope.
And he can show the flag with Granites and S-300 and even drown someone or shoot down .... just imagine that modernization is several S-500 or Su-57 regiments .... which is more important?

[fk7777777]

He only works in a group sex, but as a lone person they still get shaken sooner or later, so that he can erase Australia as a continent, easily or make a strait to them. JV Stalin between Canada and Mexico, but this is an extreme, and then everything will be all the same for all.

[5-9]

How to erase? Granite with a range of 600 km and 500 ktn? So the "loaf" has not 20, but as much as 24 pieces. And at RTOs with UKSK Calibers from 2500 km ... RTOs are Australia's weapon of retaliation? If Columbus made it in a 200-ton boat, then this one will definitely finish with refueling ..

[Igor Borisov_2]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Quote: Food

Yesterday I read about medicines for children (I don’t remember the name). It is necessary 300 million rubles. And they don’t give, although the medicines are critical, justifying the lack of money.

And usually the child is sick so that even if he survives, he will not be able to give birth to children, serve in the army and pay taxes on the maintenance of the rest of the same unhappy, that is, he will remain the same vegetable as before the passage of an expensive course of treatment; unless the symptoms of the course of the disease ease it or simplify life in the domestic plane by installing a certain apparatus, stimulator, etc.

So right away do you think euthanasia ??? And even without treatment attempts? The Swedes adopt a lot of our sick children, I know firsthand the Swedish teacher participated in such adoptions as a translator, and you know that the most interesting thing is that many take care .......

[Igor Borisov_2]

Yes, the poor fellow was built for a long time from 1986 to 1998 .... Accompanying him from St. Petersburg to the Northern Fleet is impressive. Then the Swedish "Wiggen" fell next to him and the Swedes shouted that it was "Peter" aiming at him ....

[fk7777777]

Yes, and when he came, he got up for repairs again, we watched the circus ....

[qaz]

Quote: Thrifty

In newspapers, advertisements from the same "Sevmash" about the recruitment of SPECIALISTS of one profile or another have been weighing for years, as on specialized Internet resources!

Are you aware that people tend to age and retire? So the replenishment of the staff is a continuous thing.

[fk7777777]

Severomorsk, the priest of the earth, to be honest in all respects, climate, etc., plus the local mentality ... In general, the color is still the same ...

[fk7777777]

Well, this is as always, the engine is a problem, and always, even when I got to repair with the engine, everyone repairs it.

[89625588851]

I think based on the results of Nakhimov’s operation, in any case, decide on a full-fledged modernization of Peter, especially against the background of inexperienced destroyers in the near future.

[persimmon ufimtsev]

I don't think so. With that money, you can build a new frigate with more advanced weapons. And his supersonic "Granites" have not yet lost their formidable power.

[Radical]

The volume of modernization of TARKR "Peter the Great" will be significantly reduced

Who would doubt that... .

[Adimius38]

no money, that's the answer

[Alien From]

It is a pity, there was a mighty power. Prosrali.

[Warrior MorePhoto]

Quote: rzzz

Quote: Warrior StillTot

we have Zero Su 57, Zero Armat, Zero Coalitions and further down the list

How is that zero? And at the parade?

Oh yes) And the plastic models of the Leader from which NATO is in shock?)

[Wanderer039]

They again decided to save money at the Navy, they still can’t feed Chubais in the Kremlin ... It’s bad, it’s very bad

[vladcub]

Quote: 89625588851

I think based on the results of Nakhimov’s operation, in any case, decide on a full-fledged modernization of Peter, especially against the background of inexperienced destroyers in the near future.

In fact, the cruiser and the destroyer are slightly different categories

[ABM]

Quote: vladcub

"Chief, the mustache is gone. The plaster cast will be removed tomorrow" right?