In Poland, discussing the possibility of acquiring American tanks M1 Abrams

In Poland, they decided to consider the situation regarding the possible acquisition of American tanks M1 Abrams. In particular, it is noted that it is necessary to study the question of how these tanks are able to increase the combat effectiveness of the Polish army amid threats. The main threat to the Polish political elites continues to be Russia.

In Poland, next year the program of modernization of the army and fleetfor a 15 year period. Under this program, the Polish command plans to rearm tank units, replacing the "obsolete T-72."

Currently, the Leopard-2 tank is considered the basis for the rearmament of the tank units of the Polish Armed Forces. However, the Polish expert Mateusz Zilonka suggests discussing the purchase of M1 Abrams. The expert cites a statement by an employee of the Lexington Institute (USA), Dr. Dan Hur. Gur noted that Washington could authorize the sale of Abrams tanks to the Poles to increase the defense capability of the Polish state.

Mateusz Zilonka writes that in this case it is necessary to agree on cooperation with American partners in the “tank polonization”. In particular, we are talking about creating such a version of "Abrams", which would be most consistent with the possibility of use on Polish territory. But the Polish expert has no illusions, noting that such a “Polish version” of M1 Abrams can cost the Polish budget a round sum, and it is pointless to acquire the American version, since it is not suitable for Polish conditions of use.

An example is the delivery of versions of the Abrams M1A2T to Taiwan. 108 armored vehicles for the Taiwanese army cost the country's budget $ 2 billion. Accordingly, for Taipei, each tank cost more than $ 18,5 million.

Mateusz Zilonka:

The cost of the purchase is only the beginning, because you also need to remember the costs of the logistics of armored vehicles. And the Abrams are among the most expensive tanks in operation in the world.

Comments

[Basarev]

What is the point of the Poles changing one obsolete tank to another? They could strain and create their own, if they really want to spend money uselessly.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

"elementary watson" you gotta lick Uncle Sam's ass

[Ru_Na]

Their tongue has not yet become covered with calluses from zealous licking ?!

[krot]

Yes, fine, M1 .. They can still buy T-72 from us. So then one segment ...)

[Sergey39]

They could create their own tank. But the task of the generators of this idea is different. They will bend before the weakening hegemon and give money to the American manufacturers of military equipment, which pay for the promotion of this "idea."

[orionvitt]

Quote: Sergey39

They could create their own tank.

Could, but only a toy. A modern tank, this is not a blunder. This is a high-tech product where entire manufacturing industries are involved. And the Poles have neither resources nor a tank building school.

[Dmitry Donskoy]

That's for sure. Recently I saw how they harden the hull of tanks, so this is a whole symphony.

[missuris]

yes it, just in the 21st century, a modern tank is a blunder, the main thing is that they would sell components, the tank can be assembled entirely from imported parts. Like the USSR, no one is building now, even China and Russia will buy something abroad.

[antivirus]

shit rushing and the Poles can return - The Germans subsidize the development of polonium. if defense orders go away (from the EU), so will the "friendship of Germany" and other EU

[figwam]

Quote: Basarev

They could strain and create their own, if they really want to spend money uselessly.

Even there is no analogue in the world in one copy, but it is apparently so good that you still want old Abrams.

[cost]

In Poland, discussing the possibility of acquiring American tanks M1 Abrams

Appetite comes with eating First penguins, now tanks ... if the Ministry of Finance does not stop them in time, it will end with the purchase of an aircraft carrier

[Stalllker]

Just business and nothing personal! More precisely, "personal state" interest

[svp67]

Quote: Basarev

What is the point of the Poles changing one obsolete tank to another? They could strain and create their own, if they really want to spend money uselessly.

To show your loyal mood ...

[TermNachTer]

Does the Pshek have their own tank building school or factories that produced heavy armored vehicles? The Indians won, blinded "out of the blue" their "Arjun" - now the whole world is laughing. In general, I am hooting from the pshek, they are going to buy "Abrams", F - 35s, build a missile defense system for mattresses, despite the fact that in Brussels they "very thickly" hinted that rations in Warsaw would be greatly cut. This will greatly depend on how much the pshek will be rude to Brussels.

[falx]

they have something, the same T-72 they produced, under license. then they carried out modernization on their own ... in general, they had some hurt, albeit a small one.
and instead of developing this reserve, (as in Romania) stupid Psheks spend money on expensive Leopards, and dream of even more expensive Abrams ... foolish !!

Indian dancers are more impressed with me in comparison with pshek ... "Make in India"! that's the motto! and the dancers are trying, the couple sculpt .. yes you are right that the cobbled "Arjun" itself is "funny" .. but this is a precious experience, but this is no longer funny, the Indians will sooner or later succeed.

But the Poles throw their experience. although of course this is their business.

[white.eagle]

Even Czechs buy armored weapons in the West, although they have a long tradition of creating such weapons. The fact is that we can build a tank of the Russian T 90 class. But Russia will always have several times more of such tanks and especially crews. That is why Poland needs a tank that will have a significant advantage over Russian tanks. To even the odds and even get an edge.

[Russobel]

Precisely "wasting money to no avail"
But they don’t have as much cardboard on improvised tanks ... multi-layered.

[TermNachTer]

But there is a multilayer plywood

[Thrifty]

Yes, let them take it, only in large wholesale lots at once. They should buy a hundred more Leclercs, "Challengers 2" also with a hundred, "Chariots 3", to redeem everything that is in stock! For the Indians to be jealous, because they do not have such a combined hodgepodge of tanks.

[falx]

The coolest hodgepodge in Iran. but they have historically happened ....

[Uncle Izya]

How are they obsolete?

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Basarev

They could strain and create their own

Do not overestimate their abilities ... including mental !!

[Pereira]

This is exactly what the Poles lack for complete happiness. Let them buy. I do not mind their money. But I would see how he and Trump will bargain.

[Stalllker]

Also like a varic, let them ruin themselves

[carstorm 11]

stupidly political whim ... for a substantial replacement of the fleet of money, they still will not find it, and a pair of battalions to arm does not make much sense. It is time for the Poles to understand that by doing all this they do not just draw a target on themselves, but also highlight it themselves. in fact, Poland is already becoming the primary goal in any conflict. its ports have long been a target for striking. even without deliveries of these, in any case, they will be destroyed first and immediately. why they do it to me personally do not understand.

[Lesorub]

Mateusz Zilonka proposes to discuss the purchase of M1

I think Mateusz Zilonka is motivated by the Americans, there is no other explanation, having T 72, Leopard and their service infrastructure, at least the statements of this character seem to be countries.

Quote: carstorm 11

in fact, Poland is already becoming the primary goal in any conflict.

I agree with you: in case of even more serious conflict with the NATO bloc, Poland in the forefront of utilization and the M1 or Leo purchased by them will not play any role.

[Stalllker]

Yes, they all understand that they are a target. And they also understand that you can’t turn off the back

[carstorm 11]

do not turn it off. their ports for the transfer of reinforcements are needed like air. which means they will be burned right away.

[Magic archer]

But what about the super tank of the future, which the Poles boasted about ??? Even the layout was! Apparently something went wrong

[Constanty]

The Lord himself wrote that this is just a mockup. And it is based on non-Polish CV-90. The poor man was trying to get a grant, but it’s interesting that the idea probably gained popularity in South Korea, demonstrating a surprisingly similar model at ADEX2019

[IL-18]

If VO is read in Polonium, then they may realize that if you have a license for T-72, you can produce them at your own place, keeping it as modern as possible. And save money, and get a formidable enough power. Yes, really ... Apparently the purchase of weapons from the Americans, in this case, is to our advantage.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

They just see nowhere to put fuel It is not for nothing that the T80 with the GTD was not widely used here. I’m afraid to imagine how much the Abrams unit will eat. A rear convoy of fuel trucks should immediately follow them.

[Constanty]

I completely agree with you, but as far as I know, already in 2009, Bumar could not produce tanks on
T-72 licenses - there were no experienced employees or even welders. arms purchases from the Americans
it is rather a sign of slavery of our authorities :-(
I won’t be surprised if we buy these Abrams - for colossal money to please the Americans :-(

[IL-18]

Well, intention is not a bargain. Although, I remember how the Polish An-2, Mi-2, commercial vehicles, landing craft and much of consumer goods throughout the Union could be found.

[Chigi]

It is very sad that in Poland lost the ability to produce tanks.
But the T-72 is still being modernized in the countries operating it.

[mat-vey]

Poland is a member of NATO, which T-72. Everything should be brought to NATO standard.

[Incvizitor]

Broken Poles of unbeaten Fshists are being taken. The EU cuts off all their livelihoods to them and they just have to wave to the Western jackal, well, that’s where they are.

[Morglenn]

Is it worth buying Abrams if the Poles have Leopards in the army? Isn't it easier to buy more Leopards? It looks more like American lobbyists are trying to push the products of American corporations into the Polish army.

[Reserve buildbat]

Right! Let them quickly switch to abrashki! This will ensure the immobility of the tank troops of Pshekia and Megadyr in the budget! The country's defense will go to minus.

[Grits]

The Poles will soon have everything American. From gas molecules to brains of leadership. Can they no longer suffer in their licking of the American anus, but immediately offer themselves officially as an American colony? I am sure that the Poles will ride for a week with joy and declare this day a holiday.

[Stalllker]

The gas is Russian there, it makes sense to drive it with the United States, if through shell companies it can be bought and sold in the Yamal Peninsula as American. This circuit has already been ignited

[falx]

18,5 lyam apiece ??? FUCK !!!
Poles buy! do not skimp! and the more the better! Take on credit, if what ... the most important thing here is not to forget about the "Russian threat"! at the same time you will make Uncle Donald happy ...

[Incvizitor]

Nothing good, the Nazis on this loot around the world train terrorists.

[samarin1969]

The Polish "proletariat" rendered aid to the fraternal American proletariat. And he is preparing for a war with "class brothers" from the East.
"And axes are forged behind the hill,
Beat the wild heads ... "

[Proton]

The ladies of the old horse with corn to them in .. will be sold and they will be glad

[Cruel beaver]

Something happened with Moskon in polonium ..... And where are the doctors looking? the patient has an attack !!!!!

[knn54]

Who can explain what "polonization" is? In addition to improving cross-country ability, nothing else comes to mind.

[Amateur]

F-35, Abrams, Patriots, as well as an aircraft carrier and at least one nuclear submarine with Tomahawks. For the future - the interstellar cruiser "Death Star".
To do this, Germany and Russia will have to pay reparations to the Poles in the amount of at least $ 100000000000 per year until tyłek nie pęknie (something breaks)

[askort154]

Amateur ... F-35, Abrams, Patriots, as well as an aircraft carrier and at least one nuclear submarine with Tomahawks. For the future - the interstellar cruiser "Death Star".

Israel receives from the United States, an annual subsidy of 3,8 billion. dollars (38 for 10 years).
Poland receives a subsidy from the EU - more than 1 billion euros per year.
That is why the kids are chic for free, buying the F-35, and everything that their "patron" will offer.
Brussels is already beginning to spawn, Polish arrogance.

[Amateur]

Israel receives from the United States, an annual subsidy of 3,8 billion. dollars (38 for 10 years).

You made me funny! Compare Israel with Poland.
"This joke is stronger than Goethe's Faust"

[Stalllker]

They are not just given, but "paid" for services

[Avior]

. However, the Polish expert Mateusz Zilonka suggests discussing the purchase of M1 Abrams.

And besides him, is someone seriously discussing this, or is this one little green one having such ideas?
Something about others in the article there is nothing

[TatarinSSSR]

Poland wants to undermine its economy with arms costs. The USA joyfully rub their hands - money flows for pieces of iron in your pocket.

[Stalllker]

The T-90’s caliber is not the same, but they are all customized to the NATO standard

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Stalllker

The T-90’s caliber is not the same, but they are all customized to the NATO standard

For the sake of such a thing - you can grind!

[Stalllker]

NATO seems to have less, if only to shove the "insert", as for a smooth))))

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Stalllker

NATO seems to have less

Yes? Well, I don’t know ... Let them wrap them with rags or something ...

[Stalllker]

Well, yes, 120 mm, we have 125 mm. You can wrap the "bullet" with rags, we get a sub-caliber

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: 013

In terms of tanks, they would better turn to the Russian Federation.

Quote: 013

For the cost of one abrams, you can get 2 new T90S / A in the most bourgeois configuration

Quote: 013

instead of one abrams for the same cost, you can get 3 T90's

Quote: 013

Winning will be in everything.

Haha! Haha! The more expensive the better! Faster to tear.

Quote: 013

And to buy T90 - in general, I think not a problem.

And I would not be so categorical.
Mexico with our helicopters and India with the S-400, not to mention Turkey, testify.

[Lekz]

There is no doubt that the Poles will make an effort to help make America great again. If in doubt about the desire to help, Trump will find arguments to force the Poles to buy an American product.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Lekz

There is no doubt that the Poles will make an effort to help make America great again

Turned inside out.

[Stalllker]

I will not be surprised if they are given a "sandy" color

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Stalllker

I will not be surprised if they are given a "sandy" color

Judging by the fact that production new stopped, why not?

[Stalllker]

But did Russia sell the second-hand T-90A to someone? Or new riveted with minced meat for a specific customer?

[Vasyan1971]

Just in case, I apologize, but how is it connected?

Quote: Stalllker

I will not be surprised if they are given a "sandy" color

и

Quote: Vasyan1971

Judging by the fact that the production of new ones has been stopped, why not?

с

Quote: Stalllker

And did Russia sell the second-hand T-90A to someone?

Fair.

[Stalllker]

Of course honestly

[mmrr]

Abrams was heavy for Europe. The Americans realized this after the exercises in Poland and the Baltic states. There are too many rivers and streams with bridges and bridges on the Abrams path. That's why Russia is in no hurry to dispose of T-55, T-62 storage bases.

[Pavel57]

A lot of zlotys.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: figvam

Quote: Basarev

They could strain and create their own, if they really want to spend money uselessly.

Even there is no analogue in the world in one copy, but it is apparently so good that you still want old Abrams.

Plywood does not scare anyone. It is important to be there in time and help Sherkhan .....

Winston Churchill was mistaken in calling Poland a hyena of Europe. This is the jackal of Europe.

[Boris Ivanov]

Poles are ready, as the saying goes, "to spite the conductor (Russia) to go on foot")

[Victor March 47]

Quote: mmrr

Abrams was heavy for Europe. The Americans realized this after the exercises in Poland and the Baltic states. There are too many rivers and streams with bridges and bridges on the Abrams path. That's why Russia is in no hurry to dispose of T-55, T-62 storage bases.

There is nothing for us to do in Europe. "Iskander" with nuclear stuffing will do everything as it should and without old tanks. The rest will be given the opportunity to bury the burnt ones. Let's not interfere with them.

[Vasyan1971]

we are talking about creating such a version of "Abrams", which would be most consistent with the possibility of use on Polish territory.

Like half the armor will be removed for relief?
And in general - first you have to pay for the fe-35 (albeit without the attached devices). What is already here

15-year period modernization program for the army and navy.

if Brussels starts to take the loot?

[Zaurbek]

The Poles began to buy Leo .... have a T72 .... and buy Abrams. Everything is like in the Russian Federation.

[businessv]

Quote: Zaurbek

The Poles began to buy Leo .... have a T72 .... and buy Abrams. Everything is like in the Russian Federation.

And what, our many Leo ... and Abrashek acquired? It’s a pity, whales do not know about it!

[Zaurbek]

I'm talking about the operation of three different tanks at the same time .... T72 / 80/90

[businessv]

Quote: Zaurbek

I'm talking about the operation of three different tanks at the same time .... T72 / 80/90

For us it’s an evolution that doesn’t cost a lot of money, but for the Poles T-72, Leo, Abrash it’s a hodgepodge that will be impossible to use efficiently and cheaply.

[Zaurbek]

For us it’s the same ... even the worst. They will easily buy. The USSR developed and manufactured the T-64, T-72, T-80 ... in parallel.

[Arthur 85]

Lord, well they are so stubborn ... "I have, every tank, then a cucumber, - said the master Bezenchuk. - Glazetovy, with tassels ... Here are Leopers, there they are in a swing, do they give the goods? And I'm an old company , founded in 1915 ". And Ippolit Matveyevia saw that the master was mortally drunk.

[Vlad5307]

But the Polish expert has no illusions, noting that such a “Polish version” of M1 Abrams can cost the Polish budget a round sum, and it is pointless to acquire the American version, since it is not suitable for Polish conditions of use.

It hints that the Polish road infrastructure is not ready to receive amersky equipment and it is necessary to redo it, i.e. to polonize? The more Poles will buy state weapons, the faster their economy will fall apart under the weight of its service.

[acetophenone]

The Poles are trying to strengthen their army with unsuitable means. It immediately reminds from what place the fish rots.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Abrams in Poland? Already ridiculous, except that as targets, and still.

[ROSS_51]

There is not enough money to upgrade the rogue version of Leopard-PL, let's look at the rogue version of Abrams-PL) Which even the pyramid builders refused))

[Gosha Smirnov]

in impoverished Poland, the average salary is higher than in not impoverished RF

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Gosha Smirnov

in impoverished Poland, the average salary is higher than in not impoverished RF

Gosh, do not ascribe to me your speculation. I did not call Poland a beggar.
But from this the Leopard-PL version does not become full-fledged. Rather, the not-so-rogue modernization is becoming more and more expensive for the Poles. They then hoped that Rheinmetall would also make repairs for freebies under this shop.

[Olddetractor]

Quote: Vlad5307

It hints that the Polish road infrastructure is not ready to receive amersky equipment and it is necessary to redo it, i.e. to polonize?

It is possible without altering the roads. Just the Abrams will put on one track. Which, of course, will lead to their rise in price :)) Tanks for defense, they are

[IC]

Very heavy tank, which cannot be quickly moved through Polish communications (bridges, roads, etc.)

[Klingon]

and let the striped ones feed Abrashek’s psekam on three roads, they are naive, you might think, in the case of a serious batch, it will reach a direct tank clash. Mr. Iskander will resolve this issue in advance

[Dmitry Zadorozhniy]

If my sclerosis does not change me, then some time ago, at the NATO exercises. Abrams could not transfer from ports to landfills. By railway dimensions did not pass. Question! Clear-minded what? Have you redid the railway tracks?

[businessv]

The cost of the purchase is only the beginning, because you also need to remember the costs of the logistics of armored vehicles. And the Abrams are among the most expensive tanks in operation in the world.

Well, at least here he showed sanity! Huge, heavy, old and unwieldy! It is unlikely that the "Polish political elites" will go beyond talk in this venture. As usual!

[Sapsan136]

You can discuss it as much as you like, only it’s all in vain ... Money is needed for buying, and poor Poland lives on loans from the USA and the EU, and this year it’s time to pay on previously taken loans and pay a lot ... I would also with pleasure, I bought myself a new house, but this requires about 18 million rubles, which, alas, I don’t have ... And I don’t want to go into debt, because I’m not a Pole ...

[Gosha Smirnov]

in impoverished Poland, the average salary is higher than in not impoverished RF

[Sapsan136]

Prices and debt are also higher ...

[Gosha Smirnov]

Modern more or less developed countries just develop due to the buildup of internal and external debt. The wealth of states is determined by the level of well-being of their citizens including, and not by the absence of debt. Modern money is fiat and the level of debt is not as important as the percentage for its servicing how and to whom this debt belongs. Most of the public debt of developed countries is a debt to ourselves.

[Sapsan136]

Living in debt, this is not wealth and not the economy, this is a soap bubble that will burst and will not seem enough ...

[Gosha Smirnov]

THE WHOLE history of the development of modern capitalism IS WRITTEN BY PERMANENT BUBBLES that periodically inflate in different zones of e-ki. .All technologically developed countries exclusively promote scientific and technical progress through credit. And only poor countries that DO NOT know how to use modern credit mechanisms and are not able to build their own (the USSR, for example, built its own independent division of labor) or integrate into the world, such as you degenerates in matters of ecology are told and taught all kinds of crap in universities, etc. about crises and the type about how the ec-ka is arranged or should be arranged, etc. .. But it is completely not so arranged as you are trying to rub here! And only in very limited, closed elite institutions give real knowledge. All 500 years of development of capitalism are constant, permanent cyclical and so on. crises. But no matter how technological development is going on. And IT primarily determines the further line of development of society and its wealth. And this wealth is determined not by candy wrappers or gold, not real estate and land, but by the level of technology development and the level of development of society, its skills, so to speak. Debts are corrupted when the bubble collapses and the extra money is simply sterilized, and the other part goes to the development of a new technological structure. All these debts are virtual and nothing. I’m not going to give you any more lectures here and answer to all sorts of nonsense to a person who is generally far from real ec-koi topics and writes propaganda cliches.

[Sapsan136]

Well, the United States is not smarter than the USSR, with its Great Depression, which is just around the corner ... And given the fact that Trump is far from Roosevelt, and Clinton, moreover, everything will be even worse ...

[Gosha Smirnov]

First of all, what does Roosevelt or Clinton have to do with it? All these mechanisms that Roosevelt began to implement in order to overcome the e-crisis were launched before him by Hoover. And ALL sane people and economists are well aware that there are temporary lags. VD was not only in the United States, but also in many other places. So, not his ideas at all, but the ideas were his brain team. And Roosevelt, like Trump, is just basically just an embodiment of one of the elite groups. They are their representatives. And, for example, in Europe, Adolf Aloisovich did something similar with success. Secondly, well, intensification and continuation in the new phase of the deferred crisis 8/9 (this is not a new crisis, but the same - the reasons for the 8/9 crisis are still not completely eliminated and then it was stupidly flooded with money, etc. ..). Well and so what? Does anyone have some kind of new model in the world? No! China tried to push through a new concept and its understanding of the way out. It didn’t work out. Russia and the EU have their own. It didn’t work out. There is nothing conceptually new. And as a result The USA collapsed the USSR. Because it turned out to be smarter. And the USSR came to a standstill. Because in the 70s both the USA and the USSR started the same regular crisis. As they called it a period of stagnation. In terms of that time - a drop in capital productivity. Now it is called a drop in capital efficiency. In the United States, they found a solution and launched a mechanism to stimulate domestic consumption, since then the world was already divided and new markets were stupidly no longer was. In the USSR they didn’t find and fell apart. So all something similar already happened. And these crises are permanent. And then they will begin to bring down the system completely and change (as there were transitions from antiquity to feudalism, etc. ..), when someone will have a completely new mo but nobody therefore has it! And therefore, all this garbage is complete and there will be no global transformation, although peripheral conflicts will be difficult to avoid, and those countries that are technologically serious and backed up will come out of the next crisis, regardless of level their public debt, etc ..

[Gosha Smirnov]

1 Abrams is cooler than 10 t72. There is nothing to think about. There would be grandmas

[Den717]

Mateusz Zilonka:
The cost of the purchase is only the beginning, because you also need to remember the costs of the logistics of armored vehicles. And the Abrams are among the most expensive tanks in operation in the world.

While the "Abrams" were in the hands of only the American NATO contingent, the strengthening of roads and bridges in Poland was done with NATO money. Now, when these almost 70-ton pieces of iron will become the property of the Polish Armed Forces, this concern will fall on the shoulders of the Polish budget. They seem to have "not measured" money Why would we worry about their economies?

[Ax Matt]

Yes, forward and with the song! They will not be offered new "Abrams" A2, but most likely "budget options", which are rapidly becoming obsolete in their homeland. And the States are only good: they have to throw the trash somewhere. And then the Poles with their "skillful tongues" and American loans ...

[Gosha Smirnov]

Quote: Sapsan136

Living in debt, this is not wealth and not the economy, this is a soap bubble that will burst and will not seem enough ...

And there’s never been anything like this so that there’s nothing