On the interaction of special services and revolutionaries

The interaction of the special services and revolutionaries was discussed in the plot of the Day TV channel, where the expert and blogger Remy Meisner became a guest. The presenter of the broadcast begins the conversation by mentioning the book of Eduard Limonov, where he describes his presence in the Lefortovo pre-trial detention center and interrogations by FSB officers.

Limonov writes in his book that a portrait of Felix Dzerzhinsky hung on the wall of the office where interrogations were conducted. From the writer's statement: “Guys, but Dzerzhinsky spent half his life in prison, and you are the secret police, you tormented him! How so ... "And they answered Limonov:" So he is the creator of our organization. "

The author of the broadcast notes that the special services even under this interesting example underwent significant changes, starting a struggle with the system, then they themselves became a system.

Remy Meisner recalls the provocations of the royal secret police, who used the methods of “drunken conversations in taverns about the need for a conspiracy against the king.”

Meisner:

Yes, they sat right in the taverns and said: “Well, the king is a fool, down with the autocracy? ..” And only there you said something relatively affirmative, as soon as possible: “Oh, that's it! Everyone has heard! Come along. ”

The blogger with irony recalls the situation in stories, which at times reached the point of absurdity: they "grazed" almost every Frenchman under Alexander I in Moscow and St. Petersburg, but as a result, "it turned out that they had been talking with the Decembrists there for 10 years."

On the interaction of revolutionaries and special services, as well as on opportunists in the elites:

Comments

[Svarog]

On the interaction of special services and revolutionaries

So without the interaction of revolutions does not happen ..

[Nick Russ]

The revolution is the omission of the special services.

And so, revolutionary terrorists are very beneficial to the authorities. After all, without special problems and discontent of the population, one can tighten the screws and introduce total control. And everyone will agree with this, because the fear for oneself, for children, of these challenges is much stronger than the fear of total surveillance and verification of everything and everything.

So for ordinary people, terrorists are a double evil.

[iouris]

Quote: Nick Russ

The revolution is the omission of the special services.

The revolution is the result of the activities of special services.

[knn54]

The gendarmes betrayed the king. The KGB did not oppose the destroyers of the USSR. What about tomorrow?

[Erich]

People don't appreciate anything, that's why they don't "fight"))

[Nasrat]

Quote: knn54

... The KGB did not oppose the destroyers of the USSR.

only a blind man does not see that the KGB was the force that could and destroyed the USSR ..
There are a lot of facts to that, at least a project by the name of Chubais, Kudrin .. And Putin is in power, a fact that simply yells ...

[Sergey Averchenkov]

So I'm blind.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

So I'm blind.

Well then, believe that Gorbachev accidentally made a dizzying career ... A group of students accidentally gathered in Leningrad in 1979 under the leadership of Chubais, personally supervised by General Oleg Kulagin, Andropov's confidant ... there are many facts and they are all on the surface.
Incidentally, of course, the institute, which Putin was in charge of as a KGB officer, had an assistant professor, the head of the department named Sobchak .. Sobchak became mayor of Peter ... well, then everyone knows everything ...

[Okolotochny]

General Oleg Kulagin

Maybe Kalugin? Wrong?

[Sergey Averchenkov]

You open new horizons for me ... But what about a warm heart and a cold mind? Who to believe in this life?

[Catfish]

Do not despair, there are also deaf people ...

[Catfish]

Everything turns out even more interesting if we recall that it was Andropov who brought Gorbachev to Moscow from Stavropol and he introduced Mishka to the Politburo. This was done by the head of the KGB, he didn’t know what Mishka was, along with his soldier Babka Raika. If he didn’t know, then both him and his Office were worthless, but if he knew ... there’s a completely different alignment.

[Okolotochny]

And also the fact, the head of the "ideological" 5th department of the Committee, where did he later work? In the MOST group, near Gusinsky. Army General[i] [/ i] whole.
So, they spat on Iron Felix and his team, who created the organ. F.E. in a coffin turned over from such followers.

[ccsr]

Quote: Okolotochny

So, they spat on Iron Felix and his team, who created the organ. F.E. in a coffin turned over from such followers.

You are too superficially evaluating that time, and you are apparently not aware that the KGB could not even develop the members of the Central Committee, because the party leaders long before that brought certain categories out of their supervision. As for Putin’s activities in St. Petersburg, he went on a long business trip to the GSVG long before that, and when he returned from there he quit the KGB very quickly after the collapse of the country. In general, Lt. Col. Putin was not that big in St. Petersburg so that he could be taken seriously as a big boss in the KGB system, so that he could somehow influence those who then seized power in this city.

[Okolotochny]

You are too superficially evaluating that time, and you are apparently not aware that the KGB could not even develop the members of the Central Committee, because the party leaders long before that brought certain categories out of their supervision.

Take away your mentor tone. Either you are the driver of a combat vehicle, then you argue with a fighter pilot until ... I fall, he dunks you into your illiteracy. I didn’t write a word for Putin, these are your mriies. For operational-search activities - also do not meddle, on these issues I will give you a huge head start.

[ccsr]

Quote: Okolotochny

You’re the driver of a combat vehicle,

Do not lie so it went - I never claimed it.

Quote: Okolotochny

then argue with the fighter pilot until ... I fall, he dunks you into your illiteracy.

In those issues that we argued about, he simply turned out to be incompetent, just like you, since you decided that he was getting me into illiteracy.

Quote: Okolotochny

I didn’t write a word for Putin, these are your mriies

Do not wag - you referred to another general, who also held a considerable post during the service, much higher than Putin before his dismissal.

Quote: Okolotochny

For operational-search activities - also do not meddle, on these issues I will give you a huge head start.

I kind of didn’t climb into it - I don’t give a damn about it. But that's why you so desire to kick our past, I understand - I’ve seen enough of people like you on some forums, you’re strong fighters, only sometimes not far-fetched ....

Quote: Okolotochny

Take away your mentor tone.

What I did not set out correctly in my text - indicate specifically so that it does not work out like with a fighter pilot.

[ccsr]

Quote: Nasr

And Putin is in power, a fact that simply yells ...

Yes, he doesn’t yell at this fact, if you carefully study his service in the KGB, the picture will be different, especially considering that he didn’t even serve his retirement term and quit without a pension. At least that's what he says in his 1991 interview. Interesting stuff:

In June 1991, the future president of Russia Vladimir Putin came to work in the mayor's office of Leningrad - he headed the committee on foreign relations of the Anatoly Sobchak administration. A few months later he gave one of the first (and perhaps the first ever) interview in his life - to the journalist of the city newspaper Rush Hour, Natalya Nikiforova, the newspaper writes.
In it, Putin told how he got into the KGB and quit there - and why he has nothing to repent of. After exactly 25 years, November 25, 2016, Medusa publishes the full text of an interview with Vladimir Putin, which had not been on the Internet before.
- Vladimir Vladimirovich, is it true that you worked in the State Security Committee? And if so, did Sobchak know about this when he invited you to work?
- I do not hide and never concealed that I worked for 17 years in the KGB foreign intelligence. Another thing - did not advertise it. But Anatoly Alexandrovich knew about the place of my former service. I told him that I quit the committee. By the way, by that time (and I received an invitation from Sobchak this summer), I had already submitted and signed the application. And I quit as a lieutenant colonel .....

https://cont.ws/@roman76/443271

[Svarog]

Quote: knn54

The gendarmes betrayed the king. The KGB did not oppose the destroyers of the USSR. What about tomorrow?

Zolotov is not capable of betrayal .. so tomorrow there will be a bright future .. really bright, for a small group of people ..

[Nasrat]

Quote: Svarog

Zolotov is not capable of betrayal .. t.

Zolotov is a "scapegoat ... scapegoat" who is loyal and will carry out any order, but you do not mind him ... if anything, he will be on the "execution lists" for exceeding his powers - these are the methods of the NKVD ... Yagoda, Yezhov. ...

[Svarog]

Quote: Nasr

Quote: Svarog

Zolotov is not capable of betrayal .. t.

Zolotov is a scapegoat, who is faithful and will carry out any order, but it is not a pity for him ... if he will be on the "execution lists" - these are the methods of the NKVD ...

I agree .. I don’t feel sorry for anyone in their company ..

[Nasrat]

Quote: Svarog

I agree .. I don’t feel sorry for anyone in their company ..

When I said that “I don’t feel sorry for him,” I didn’t mean myself, as you know, but about those in power ..
It’s so violet to me, before the fight under the throne ....

[Catfish]

Oh, Volodya, these "devotees without flattery" can heap up such things before they themselves are put against the wall ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: knn54

The gendarmes betrayed the king

Rather, they were underworked.

[iouris]

Quote: knn54

The KGB did not oppose the destroyers of the USSR.

The KGB carried out the counter-revolution.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Hitler forgot! The secret services were the first to take it. In my opinion, impeccably pursued an internal policy in order to avoid collusion of special services, the only person I.V. Stalin. The same Judah (Gorbachev) created chaos, if not with the full connivance, then with the full consent of the special services.

[Nick Russ]

,, In my opinion, impeccably pursued internal policies in order to avoid collusion of special services, the only person I.V. Stalin. ,,

Only in the death of Stalin himself is much mysterious.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Well, the work of I.V. Stalin was, so to say, very nervous, I was thinking about the country, and I was thinking pretty well! This is not a hunchback - he ruined the country and does not worry, and writes books ....... Bad person!

[mat-vey]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

Well, the work of IV Stalin was, so to say, very nervous

Well, four strokes seem to be ...

[Amateur]

which mentions the book of Eduard Limonov, where he describes his presence in the Lefortovo pre-trial detention center and interrogations by FSB officers.

And if

expert, blogger Remy Meisner

began to discuss another book "I, Eddie", then Limonov's relationship with a certain negro, by no means old years, could come to interesting results.

[Amateur]

I haven't read at least 5 members of the VO "I-Edichka". (hopefully)

[Lamata]

Dzerzhinsky did not even serve dozens, and then part of his term was exiled. But the Chekists, in many ways, many exaggerated.

[Vlad5307]

Quote: knn54

The gendarmes betrayed the king. The KGB did not oppose the destroyers of the USSR. What about tomorrow?

And how could the KGB resist the top of the CPSU if it was completely subordinate to it. The KGB, although it was called the state, was in fact a tool of the CPSU — the advanced detachment of the CPSU.

[Lamata]

But he could not follow the night from the district committee and collect the information.

[Okolotochny]

But he could not follow the night from the district committee and collect the information.

Come on? The deputy minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs were kept under a cap. They could, everyone could. There was a nuance in the excitement of a criminal case - for this it was necessary that the primary party cell, where the person registered was registered, give Welcome.

[Lamata]

You see, I don’t know these things from books, I myself served in the National Security Committee of the Republic of Kazakhstan, and our old people spoke directly. The party cells of the organization’s parties everywhere were almost, there was no obstacle to work out a party member, even of a high rank, but in local party bodies, it was another matter.

[Okolotochny]

Read again:

The deputy minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs were kept under a cap.

And you are talking about some secretary of the district committee. They could work, the lens is written, a management visa is imposed and in ... the process of organizing an ORM. Only in the lens it was necessary not to indicate the OBS, not three Ps, but realities. And if they were afraid to write, then that's another question. Objectively, anyone could. And the "politically literate" in the field ...

[Lamata]

I also reiterate that ministers are not partisans, this is understandable to you, this is the executive branch. The Cheka itself could not take on its own the development of a party from the party apparatus on the initiative of the Cheka. To take into the development of the party from any other authority is easy.

[Okolotochny]

I still repeat ministers this is not part of the government

Are you really so ... dim-witted or pretending to be? Ministers in the USSR, and especially the Ministry of Internal Affairs, members of various Presidiums and Soviets. Where did your district committee secretaries only iron the shoelaces?
Aplomba is lesser mister of a lie. You are not an office worker; you did not serve there. Office workers will NEVER declare this. They have it driven into the gene code. And judging by your short-sighted comments on various topics - there is only one message in them - Populism. I will not argue with the populist and liar. Adios.

[Private89]

Not every KGB officer is a communist in his soul. All the same, Felix Edmundovich advocated and defended the interests of the proletarian class, in contrast to the current structure, which defends the interests of which class is known. But there are always changes, here the party nomenclature, being locked in itself, eventually degenerated into the bourgeoisie.
Here is what Stalin wrote:
Our cadres need to have a good knowledge of Marxist economic theory.

The first, older generation of the Bolsheviks was theoretically savvy. We crammed Capital, outlined, argued, checked each other. That was our strength. It helped us a lot.

The second generation is less prepared. People were busy with practical work, construction. Marxism was studied through brochures.

The third generation is brought up on feuilleton and newspaper articles. They do not have deep knowledge. They need to be given food that is digestible. Most of them were brought up not on the study of the works of Marx and Lenin, but on citations.

If things go on like this, then people can degenerate. In America they argue: everything is decided by the dollar, why do we need a theory, why science? And in our country they can reason like this: why do we need “Capital” when we are building socialism. It threatens degradation, it is death. To avoid this even in particulars, it is necessary to raise the level of economic knowledge.

[nikvic46]

Speaking about the special services, we must remember that better than the people working in this structure, no one knows the situation in the country than they do. It’s another matter that they should give their views to the leaders of the country. And this does not always turn out positively against them. and successes, there were failures. Therefore, it is superficially impossible to approach this conversation.

[Vlad5307]

Quote: nikvic46

Speaking about the special services, we must remember that better than the people working in this structure, no one knows the situation in the country than they do. It’s another matter that they should give their views to the leaders of the country. And this does not always turn out positively against them. and successes, there were failures. Therefore, it is superficially impossible to approach this conversation.

This means that failures in domestic and foreign policy, in this case, are inevitable, which recorded the collapse of the USSR. Serving the state or your beloved are two different things. Any system is destroyed by the unhealthy careerism of people who have to work for the system, and not for themselves beloved in this system. This rot breaks down any system over time, at least the state, at least the corporation. A system that is not able to clean itself, eventually collapses or turns into an antipode to itself.