Siberia and the Far East - for the Chinese?


I have written more than once on the problem of low population density in Siberian and Far Eastern regions. He talked about the outflow of youth from the Trans-Urals, that the population of these richest regions was practically abandoned by the central government. Not to mention the futility of life in difficult conditions for young people.


How many opinions during this time were expressed by readers, how many conversations that there really are no problems! Places are not adapted for a comfortable life, the land is barren, the climate is difficult ... And there are a lot of the same nonsense from the "experts" from comfortable places to live.

But most of all in these conversations I like the conclusion. The proposed logic of reasoning is as follows: it is not necessary to populate Siberia and the Far East. The wealth of Siberia can be taken “hap-way”, bringing labor for short periods of time on a rotational basis. Local peoples and those who once came to master the riches of Siberia, let them live their own lives. But do not let anyone in the Trans-Urals. Let there be no one's pantry of minerals and other wealth. Nobody’s, but belonging to Russia! ..

How local Siberian authorities "squander Russian lands"


The strange attitude towards the eastern regions of Russia today is no longer surprising. A light rail or a new modern highway is being built. Where does Russia end? That's right, in Kazan or somewhere else. Show advanced industry developments to improve the comfort of people's lives, where will they be implemented?

And at the same time, Omsk transporters, for example, rejoice as children that the decommissioned Moscow trams that have traveled the streets of Moscow for more than a decade will be transferred to this million-plus city and will replace trams that are already four decades old or more.

For the local authorities, who are well aware that while maintaining existing trends, the population in the near historical perspective simply will not remain in sufficient quantities, the issue of raising funds is a paramount task. Ultimately, it is the local government that is responsible to the residents for everything.

So, on the one hand, we have a native state there, beyond the Urals, which has no money to ensure a decent life for Siberians and Far Easterners. And on the other hand, we have rich China, which is ready to invest in these regions. China, which is ready to create jobs, develop tourism, buy land, build factories, cities and towns.

Let's look at one of the fairly prosperous Siberian regions: the Novosibirsk region. In 2019, 40 Chinese came to this region! Moreover, 000 Siberians left for China. Notice, not to Moscow or to another western region of Russia, but to China. I will quote from the speech of the Deputy Governor Vyacheslav Yarmanov:

“The People’s Republic of China is one of the main strategic partners of the Novosibirsk Region, occupies the first place in export and import: the share of China in the foreign trade turnover of the Novosibirsk Region is 30%.
In recent years, the agricultural industry in our region has seen serious positive dynamics, and we are ready to continue cooperation in this direction, as well as in tourism, science and others. We are ready to consider options for creating joint Russian-Chinese enterprises. ”

Like this. Are local authorities squandering the wealth of Siberia or not? Why are Chinese business and Chinese tourists inviting to Russia? Why create Russian-Chinese enterprises?

The number of visitors to the Far East from the Middle Kingdom is growing exponentially?


Any resident of Irkutsk will tell you in detail about how many Chinese come to Russia every day. Why Irkutsk Yes, simply because for the Chinese, Irkutsk today is like St. Petersburg once for Russia itself. Window. In this case, to Russia. I spoke with several residents of this city. I received interesting information about one of the districts of this city.

The so-called 130th quarter of Irkutsk. A tourist oasis, which was built on the site of the old city especially for the Chinese. Old-fashioned huts with cafes, restaurants and souvenir shops. Huge shopping center "Fashionable quarter". In the summer months, if you take a walk around this quarter, you will get the full feeling that you are in China. Asian faces are much more than European.

Naturally, the question arises as to the appropriateness of all these transformations. Maybe this is unprofitable? Profitable! Still as profitable. Chinese who come to Irkutsk are rich! And they spend huge, by local standards, money. The time when our citizens went to China for consumer goods has passed. Now the Chinese are coming to us for ... quality goods.

Irkutsk authorities have at least some income from the tourism industry from China. An income that allows you to solve some everyday problems of citizens. And Chinese businessmen, who, following tourists, develop these territories, build restaurants, cafes, small enterprises, hotels and tourist centers create jobs for the local population.

And how many Chinese are resting on Lake Baikal today? After all, this place today has become almost a must for visiting Chinese tourists. Moreover, it can already be said that for the Chinese, Lake Baikal has already become a part of precisely Chinese culture, and even more strongly, a part of Ancient China.

If you ask a Chinese tourist who first discovered Lake Baikal, you are almost 100 percent likely to hear that the Chinese discovered Lake Baikal. North Lake, Bei Hai in Chinese, is really mentioned in Chinese manuscripts. The popular singer Li Jang, who several years ago wrote a very popular lyrical song about the North Lake, added fuel to the patriotic fire of the people of China.

Guard? Are local authorities selling Siberia to the Chinese? Yes, they do. Forced to sell! Imagine if all this had not happened? There would be no Chinese tourists, Chinese cafes and restaurants, Chinese joint ventures. What would happen to the region? What would happen in Listvyanka or on the island of Olkhon? Nothing…

The Chinese are massively buying up land


I have already mentioned the small village of Listvyanka on the right bank of Lake Baikal. Here is an example of it and try to understand the issue of land purchase by the Chinese. Quite indicative, I must say, an example.

Listvyanka today is one of the centers of Chinese tourism on Lake Baikal. And one of the centers of confrontation between Russian and Chinese businessmen on the sale of land. Local residents even organized some kind of movement to save Siberian land from Chinese expansion.

Let Russians buy and build Russian hotels! Good slogan, isn't it? Only here, with the advent of Chinese business, local residents raised the price of land a little. For the construction of the hotel you need 30-40 acres of land. Otherwise, the hotel will be simply unprofitable.

Do you know how much one hundred square meters of land costs on the first line off the coast of Baikal today? At least a million rubles or more. That is, to purchase the land necessary for construction, the businessman must initially pay 40 million rubles for the land.

How many Russian businessmen became interested in this offer? Not at all. Alas, Chinese businessmen are richer and more willing to invest in small and medium businesses. And local residents, no matter how patriotic they are, will sell land to companies affiliated with the Chinese. Just because they pay more ...

Fly in the ointment in a patriotic barrel of honey


I understand the patriots who advocate the preservation of Russian Siberia and the Far East. How many Russian lives have been laid for this land to belong to Russia1 How much effort and money our country has spent on developing these regions!

I understand those who advocate the liberalization of the use of Siberian wealth. If a country does not have the ability and desire to preserve territories for itself, if the citizens of this country who still live are guarded, get resources for this country, and the state does not give a damn, then people somehow need to survive. Or leave for the central part of the country.

Even that today we practically give our land to ruin to foreigners, I understand. Probably, each of us heard about the lands where the Chinese and Koreans were engaged in agriculture, about the deserts after such barbaric use.

But there is another fact that some people know about, but which they prefer not to talk about. The Chinese are a fairly isolated people. That is why they retain their diasporas in all the countries into which they penetrate. Chinatowns are almost everywhere.

I will give a very simple example. Chinese tourists, which today are many not only in Siberia, but also in Moscow, St. Petersburg and other tourist cities, almost never go to the shops of Russians. Chinese guides, as well as the Russians working with the Chinese, will certainly lead tourists to shops, cafes, restaurants owned by the Chinese. Except for the original Russian "brands". And the joint ventures that are being created with us are working for export to China.

Simply put, a significant part of our economy today works in the Middle Kingdom. We carry out the tasks posed by the Chinese business. What's next? Siberia and the Far East are moving farther and farther away from Central Russia and are more and more drawn into the sphere of economic interests of China. What happened next? And then business penetrates into politics, into local government ... I would like to hope that both Siberia and the Far East will nevertheless preserve their domestic identity and will develop in the interests of the people living there, and, therefore, in the interests of Russia.
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  1. rocket757 17 February 2020 12: 37 New
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    What's next? Siberia and the Far East are moving farther and farther away from central Russia and are more and more drawn into the sphere of economic interests of China. And then what?

    The eternal question ... What to do?
    It is being asked already here and there! There is no clear answer either here or there, and this is obvious.
    Can read the program that outlined, lowered from the top? I wonder if this will help to understand what they thought up there.
    1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 12: 53 New
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      Russia has a very large territory and too small population. The conclusion suggests itself. It is necessary to create conditions for increasing the population. Attract immigrants from Europe. For example, the Germans are assimilating well.
      1. rocket757 17 February 2020 13: 03 New
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        Quote: Sergey39
        For example, the Germans are assimilating well.

        We would have to collect our own, half-blooded !!! Over the hill there are many of them left ...
        Just do not go back all at once, especially after the ordeals of those who have already arrived, but cannot become a full citizen !!!
        The problems are still the same, clumsy laws, not made for the purpose of gathering everyone, as it were, on the contrary! Moreover, the local bureaucracy adds many difficulties to the settlers, and these are well-known facts!
        That's how our current managers are doing anything, but not what the country needs.
        In our country, how? even a big kick, from the very top, does not guarantee that everything will start to work as it should ... the officials have cast-iron ... fillet and their own understanding of how it is needed, and even any Wishlist, different.
        1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 13: 06 New
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          Well, first of all. And the German leadership itself contributes to this. We must take advantage of the situation.
          1. _Sergei_ 17 February 2020 17: 34 New
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            My daughter-in-law has a cousin in Germany. His small business is prosperous. In 2015, he came to Russia. I wanted to come back. For a year I was looking for a house in the German district of Altai Krai. He said that it’s expensive. He travels every year to rest in the Crimea and Sochi.
            1. rocket757 18 February 2020 07: 52 New
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              Quote: _Sergey_
              For a year I was looking for a house in the German district of Altai Krai.

              Where is it like ... I already have three families of "returnees" living near me, I also bought a plot. Of course, our climate is patient, but living in the interfluve, next to two cities, industrial centers of the region, has its advantages.
            2. Nikolai Grek 22 February 2020 21: 48 New
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              Quote: _Sergey_
              My daughter-in-law has a cousin in Germany. His small business is prosperous. In 2015, he came to Russia. I wanted to come back. For a year I was looking for a house in the German district of Altai Krai. He said that it’s expensive. He travels every year to rest in the Crimea and Sochi.

              you see, the concept of thriving in Germany is relative, if housing is expensive for them in such a region of Russia !!!! wassat
          2. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 19 New
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            Quote: Sergey39
            Well, first of all.

            Let’s tell the truth, nobody needs “friends” in Russia. Dot.
      2. Svarog 17 February 2020 13: 12 New
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        Quote: Sergey39
        For example, the Germans are assimilating well.

        You are interesting .. and many Germans are ready to move to us .. in my opinion ours are massively rushing there .. The Germans assimilated well after the Second World War .. but in the 90s many of them went home ..
      3. Yeti Suvorov 17 February 2020 14: 02 New
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        Russia has a very large territory

        Not very big.
        It is necessary to consider 2/3 due to climatic conditions unsuitable for living
        1. Lannan Shi 17 February 2020 15: 43 New
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          Quote: Yeti Suvorov
          It is necessary to consider 2/3 due to climatic conditions unsuitable for living

          Ugums. Russian is not suitable, but the Chinese and Koreans are quite.
          1. To be or not to be 17 February 2020 22: 10 New
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            At such a level, secrets are not revealed in vain
            1.2014 -15?. Putin about Great Tartary
            January 2.19 2017
            Putin gifted the first president of Tatarstan with a map of Tartaria
            https://lenta.ru/news/2017/01/19/tartaria/
      4. YOUR 17 February 2020 14: 05 New
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        He can go the simpler way, create conditions for his own. First of all, places of work for citizens of Russia, and not for migrant workers. An opportunity not to receive any handouts from the budget, but to earn by yourself.
        1. rocket757 18 February 2020 07: 54 New
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          Quote: YOUR
          He can go the simpler way, create conditions for his own. First of all, places of work for citizens of Russia, and not for migrant workers. An opportunity not to receive any handouts from the budget, but to earn by yourself.

          Right!!! All returnees have a bunch of problems, with our laws and officials, to whom no one decree, in fact.
          1. YOUR 18 February 2020 08: 20 New
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            Unfortunately you are right. How many examples sue them, the court makes decisions and ..... but nevermind.
            1. rocket757 18 February 2020 08: 35 New
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              Quote: YOUR
              Unfortunately you are right. How many examples sue them, the court makes decisions and ..... but nevermind.

              I’ll say seditious ... to our officials of a high rank, even the decree of the biggest "dad" is not a decree from the word at all .... there are also such facts.
        2. boni592807 18 February 2020 15: 01 New
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          "... First of all, places of work for citizens of Russia, and not for migrant workers ..." what

          It is said ALMOST correctly, but we’ll make an amendment - Not in the first place and SO - work (caring for subsidies, everything) for state-forming and indigenous to Russia and SPECIFIC territory of Russia
          Recall the same Yakutia (https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-47731433) and got them.
          Next - Tight follow-up and responsibility for the CONSEQUENCES of non-compliance. There will be order, there will be many children, Peace in our home, the wealth of Russia - for our children and descendants. hi
          If necessary, take foreign workers - only for a fixed-term contract. and Without the right to bring families and, moreover, “grant” citizenship for birth in Russia. stop
          What is it like?
          They took (saved) from the street to the HOUSE, helped (without a fee, and ours, who are SO and WHERE ???) with medical help!
          In the morning, the lawyer "informs" you that your house, land and ALL YOUR property upon the birth of a passing citizen, now: HER, her child and close relatives of the child's parents.
          fool
          Sorry, but what about the sacred right of private property??? Cm.
          THE CONSTITUTION OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
          CHAPTER 1. BASES OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM
          Article 2. Man his right and freedoms are the highest value. The recognition, observance and protection of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen is the duty of the state.
          Article 9 1. Land and other natural resources are used and protected in the Russian Federation as the basis of the life and activities of the peoples living in the relevant territory.
          2. Land and other natural resources may be in private, state, municipal and other forms of ownership.
          Article 82. In the Russian Federation, private, state, municipal and other forms of ownership are recognized and protected equally
          hi
          1. YOUR 18 February 2020 15: 25 New
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            All this is already available. BUT. Concrete, I live in the Amur region, is being built one of the largest gas processing plants in the world. In any case, they say so. 25 thousand builders, among which there is a drop of Russian citizens. All with fixed-term contracts, all are returned back after the expiration of the contract, almost all without families. But where is the work for our citizens ????????
            1. The comment was deleted.
        3. About 2 20 February 2020 20: 21 New
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          Vova has been promising to try for twenty years, and things are still there, and you won’t get a club out of a chair.
      5. Keyser soze 17 February 2020 14: 09 New
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        Attract immigrants from Europe. For example, the Germans are assimilating well.


        Is it a joke or something ... here, in Bulgaria, the average salary in the IT sector has exceeded 2 euros, and there are no people and no, unemployment for 000 is 2019% and do you know how much it is in Germany?
        Europe has a record low unemployment rate and I think that soon it will open its doors to Russian engineers, teachers, doctors and workers. Your government will either try to equalize salaries and conditions for workers with European ones or start losing the best part of the population in emigration.
        1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 15: 25 New
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          Europe has already opened the door for Middle Eastern "workers." So they will soon squeeze the indigenous population abroad and assimilate the rest.
          1. Lannan Shi 17 February 2020 15: 50 New
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            Quote: Sergey39
            Europe has already opened the door for Middle Eastern "workers." So they will soon squeeze the indigenous population abroad and assimilate the rest.

            That is not for us to talk about. Do you know the number of migrants in Russia? Not? Well, in 2018 it was estimated at 15-17 million. This is not that Germany nervously smokes on the sidelines, but as if not all of Europe combined.
            1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 15: 58 New
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              Do not confuse migrants with migrant workers who came to work, unlike Middle Eastern and African immigrants to Europe, who came there to live at someone else's expense and who do not want to work.
              1. Lannan Shi 17 February 2020 16: 15 New
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                Quote: Sergey39
                Do not confuse migrants with migrant workers who came to work, unlike Middle Eastern and African immigrants to Europe, who came there to live at someone else's expense and who do not want to work.

                Ugums, ogums. Working geniuses and underdeveloped bandits are coming to us. And Russia is the birthplace of elephants. A few years ago we had a rest in the VKS country, a rest house on the border of the Vladimir and Moscow regions. Through the fence the old building, Soviet-built. And in it lived with a couple of hundred refugees, Ukraine. Feeding, running, clothes. I heard a couple of times talking with fellow countrymen who worked on the construction of a children's camp a couple of km away. Yes, you suckers, plow to devour, and we are fed and watered from the belly. So .... Remove the noodles from your ears. It is refugees per capita in Europe that are not much more than ours. But labor migrants, whose children, in general, organized massacres in France, have about the same as in France. And many times more. than in Germany. And Tajiks with Uzbeks are assimilating no better than Arabs. And if you are not over 70, events like Paris and Nga, when cars and shops are smashed by not mysterious "lazy migrants", but you’ll quite see the country's citizens who grew up in ethnic neighborhoods in Moscow.
                Dixi.
                1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 16: 22 New
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                  Yes, we have problems with immigrants who would argue. But this is not about that. And about who to populate the Far East. These Ukrainian refugees should not be settled on scrap crowds, but sent to work in the Far East.
                  1. Lannan Shi 17 February 2020 16: 40 New
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                    Quote: Sergey39
                    But this is not about that. And about who to populate the Far East.

                    To populate? Far East? Um ... Do you know that the country has a slightly different problem? Last year, minus 320 thousand of the population, this will be under -400. The middle regional center is dying out. Annually. In 6-7 years, according to the pessimistic forecast of the Federal State Statistics Service, we will go down to minus 700-800. The only problem is that the pessimism of Rosstat, as practice has shown in recent years, is akin to violent optimism. Life shows much more sad results. The question is not who to populate with the Far East, but when will the Central Federal District turn into a non-rubber and desert around. After 20 years, or after 30.
                    1. bubalik 17 February 2020 16: 53 New
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                      The middle regional center is dying out



                      ,,, According to a preliminary estimate of the resident population on January 1, 2020 and on average for 2019, the largest population decline was noted in three federal districts - Volga (110,8 thousand people), Siberian (54,2 thousand) and Far Eastern ( 21,3 thousand).
          2. Keyser soze 17 February 2020 15: 53 New
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            Europe has already opened the door for Middle Eastern "workers." ...


            If we assume that the aliens are mainly a musulman, then the percentage of the latter in the EU is 4,9%. Of these, half at least live primordially and for centuries in Europe. So wait for the "squeezing" of the indigenous population, as soon as the fall of the dollar.

            Yes, and I wonder where is the largest mosque in Europe? Let's see who needs to worry about crowding out ....

            1. Sergey39 17 February 2020 16: 05 New
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              Quote: Keyser Soze
              So wait for the "squeezing" of the indigenous population, as soon as the fall of the dollar

              Yes, we will wait, but Europe can not wait. It will be late.
              1. Keyser soze 17 February 2020 16: 13 New
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                Yes, we will wait ....


                .... by the sea of ​​weather.
            2. Nikolai Grek 22 February 2020 21: 56 New
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              Quote: Keyser Soze
              Yes, and I wonder where is the largest mosque in Europe? Let's see who needs to worry about crowding out ....

              firstly, Russia is a multinational country ... secondly, Shali is a city in the Chechen Republic, which is the place of residence of Chechens who are Muslims !!! fool wassat
        2. _Sergei_ 17 February 2020 17: 38 New
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          We have the same salary in the IT sector, but you cannot find a good engineer. There are plenty of people who want to just go to work, but there are no normal engineers.
        3. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 27 New
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          Quote: Keyser Soze
          Is it a joke or something ... here, in Bulgaria, the average salary in the IT sector has exceeded 2 euros, and there are no people and no, unemployment for 000 is 2019% and do you know how much it is in Germany?
          Europe has a record low unemployment rate and I think that soon it will open its doors to Russian engineers, teachers, doctors and workers. Your government will either try to equalize salaries and conditions for workers with European ones or start losing the best part of the population in emigration.

          Another of the Grimm brothers, apparently. Relatives of the wife (Bulgarians) live in Sofia, one of them is an IT-employee, periodically goes to earn money abroad, for example, to Germany, dug ditches there. And you are here about 2000 euros. lol
        4. About 2 20 February 2020 20: 23 New
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          Our government is only interested in its own interests in stuffing pockets.
      6. Kronos 17 February 2020 14: 29 New
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        Oga Germans need to go to Russia where they are so good
        1. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 28 New
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          Quote: Kronos
          Oga Germans need to go to Russia where they are so good

          German Kronos, finite, in the know. laughing
      7. Lannan Shi 17 February 2020 15: 42 New
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        Quote: Sergey39
        Attract immigrants from Europe. For example, the Germans are assimilating well.
        Reply

        What attract then gathered? Samovars with vodka, but bears with cranberries? The average wage in Russia is 2.3 times less than the minimum in Germany, and does not even draw on unemployment benefits. You still suggest trump agitating the janitor in the MSC to work.
      8. Malyuta 17 February 2020 16: 07 New
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        Quote: Sergey39
        Russia has a very large territory and too small population. The conclusion suggests itself. It is necessary to create conditions for increasing the population. Attract immigrants from Europe. For example, the Germans are assimilating well.

        In order for the population to increase, it is necessary to create conditions, and this is a well-paid job, support for motherhood and childhood, infrastructure, nurseries, d / s, schools, sports facilities, universities and, most importantly, this is free housing for young families and families with children.
        Only with this power is this impossible, since the trillions stolen over 20 years would be enough to rebuild the country twice, however, this money is simply hidden and we don’t have money, but you hold on.
        1. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 30 New
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          Quote: Malyuta
          In order for the population to increase, it is necessary to create conditions, and this is a well-paid job,

          Even if it’s just paid, they’ll soon remove the criminal article for non-payment of salaries, everyone will immediately heal richly. wink
      9. Obi-Wan Kenobi 18 February 2020 06: 23 New
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        The conclusion suggests itself. It is necessary to create conditions for increasing the population. Attract immigrants from Europe.

        The conclusion is correct, and the decision is treacherous!
        Please explain why you personally and our government are ready to feed the Vikings, Germans, Chinese, the fifth column, coronavirus, stray dogs, pigeons, white whales in cages, Syrians, oligarchs, etc., in general, to support anyone - except your people ???
        Why does our power not get drunk in any way? When are they with the guarantor already stolen?
        For breeding people need normal living conditions and that’s all, people themselves will do everything.
        Why do you need the Germans? Are you German? If so, then it is all the more unclear why you didn’t leave for your historical homeland?
    2. Svarog 17 February 2020 13: 10 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      The eternal question ... What to do?
      It is being asked already here and there! There is no clear answer either here or there, and this is obvious.

      There is an answer, we need a different course, a different ideology, other people in governing the country .. Everything that is now set up for the extinction of the Russians, as a result of squandering territories in the future .. now flowers, but after 10 -15 years berries will begin to appear .. Socialism and new people in power will be able to turn the tide ... Those who now cannot do anything better, 30 years, a sufficient period to understand what they are capable of.
      1. rocket757 17 February 2020 13: 21 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        There is an answer, we need a different course, a different ideology, other people in governing the country ..

        At a minimum, a fundamental restructuring of the current government (this is a free fantasy, it will be rebuilt THIS SYSTEM cannot \ does not want).
        Replacing the system is radical ... but this is already extreme, which I would like to avoid, only HOW ???
        In short, if not a dead end, then the Gordian knot, definitely! How to unravel who will be able to cut \ want ......
        1. Zhan 21 February 2020 07: 33 New
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          In short, if not a dead end, then the Gordian knot, definitely! How to unravel who will be able to cut \ want ......

          Nobody is on top. It is impossible to trust anyone there, they have already assimilated among themselves and each fraction depicts a type of violent activity. Vaughn heard today on autoradio, Zhirinovsky made a proposal to declare October 22 "Empire Day." Tell me in favor, how will this affect the well-being of Russian people? smile
          Figures, their mother’s children ....
          Sorry comrades, there are words, but mostly not censorship ...
          1. ccsr 21 February 2020 12: 14 New
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            Quote: Zhan
            Zhirinovsky made a proposal to declare October 22 "Empire Day."

            I had the opinion that he had long since flown off coils, so listening to his monologues is not to respect yourself. Forget about him - he has not done anything useful for the country over the past years, and always supported the government, although he made himself an oppositionist.
      2. Mathafaka 17 February 2020 14: 58 New
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        The Communists calmly handed out the land left and right.
        1. WHAT IS 18 February 2020 21: 25 New
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          The Communists did not distribute, but rather, collected land! Kaliningrad, the Kuril Islands ..
      3. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 32 New
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        Quote: Svarog
        There is an answer, we need a different course, a different ideology,

        Soon there will be no one to follow this course, but the Chinese have their own. wink
      4. About 2 20 February 2020 20: 30 New
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        At the moment, Vova doesn’t have any ideology. He is trying to criticize V.I. Lenin very poorly. He also declares that they could not do anything besides galoshes in the USSR. Without understanding, he lowers himself even lower than he is. and one sidekick, as he himself once expressed himself when he was a dog, you need to earn money!
    3. ccsr 17 February 2020 13: 16 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      The eternal question ... What to do?

      I think that there is one way we should go in order to somehow rectify the situation with the settlement of our remote areas. Everyone knows how many different crimes that are not related to serious crimes are committed by Russian citizens in the form of taking bribes, writing out various certificates and documents with fake data, receiving fake disability, misappropriating someone else's pensions, etc. Moreover, this is not done by seasoned criminals, but by some presumptuous people who have forgotten about fear and conscience, and driven by greed. This category of offenders does not need to be condemned or given any short sentences in the colonies, but simply sent to remote areas for 5-10-15-20 years under the supervision of the police to work in local facilities without detention. The effect will be double - and specialists will appear there, and their content will be free for the state. And then our whole country will not think what to do with Mara Baghdasaryan if she is simply sent for five years to live in a village in Kamchatka or Chukotka under police supervision. Well, small-scale bribe-takers will not only work there, but also invest their personal savings in order to live with dignity, as they are used to. Why did our minister Ulyukaev be sent to prison if he could be sent to some remote district center for some fifteen to twenty years as an accountant at the local Horns and Hooves LLC (or something similar) and partially covered by his earnings own damage. Oh, for him this punishment would be worse than a prison sentence, knowing how they used to live in luxury, which means they knew whether they should take bribes. Of course, this is just my vision of how to solve the problem of saving our territories, but Australia, too, was not settled by the most law-abiding citizens of England.
      1. kot28.ru 17 February 2020 14: 36 New
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        No, let these “delinquents” live with you. We don’t need such indecency in the Far East. am
        1. ccsr 17 February 2020 19: 21 New
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          Quote: kot28.ru
          No, let these “delinquents” live with you. We don’t need such indecency in the Far East.

          Then we just lose the Far East with time - will it be better for you to live on this? I don’t think so ...
      2. ssergey1978 17 February 2020 16: 37 New
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        In Siberia, and so the dominance of bandits and criminals, and you want to aggravate the situation? I think the effect will be the opposite.
        1. ccsr 17 February 2020 19: 26 New
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          Quote: ssergey1978
          In Siberia, and so the dominance of bandits and criminals, and you want to aggravate the situation?

          I just wrote about those who are not a bandit in psychology, but simply committed an offense because of greed or because of stupidity. Well, for example, what's the point of setting up a traffic cop for a bribe on the road if the driver himself gives it so that he does not fine him? It’s easier to remove such people from those places where they feel like a fish in water, and let them help them to develop in a region where there are not enough hands.
          1. ssergey1978 17 February 2020 19: 35 New
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            Where there is crime and bribery. And where is working for the good of the motherland in Siberia? There are no enterprises for a long time. For example, Irkutsk is a trading city. Irkutsk region, Chita, Yakutia, Buryatia, corruption beyond the limits of where you are going to send your joint man?
            1. ccsr 17 February 2020 20: 02 New
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              Quote: ssergey1978
              And where is working for the good of the motherland in Siberia?

              Well, at least to local individual entrepreneurs, or to organize what the locals need.
              Quote: ssergey1978
              Irkutsk region, Chita, Yakutia, Buryatia, corruption beyond the limits of where you are going to send your joint man?

              Yes, at least in a private security company that guards organizations, or accompanies goods. I do not suggest that such people be given power in their hands - they must work in other jobs, and if they cannot, then let their relatives support them, allocating money for their maintenance. Already this will give an inflow of capital to remote areas - at least they will have to do something in order not to be a burden to relatives.
      3. rocket757 17 February 2020 17: 46 New
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        Quote: ccsr
        Australia is also not the most law-abiding citizens of England settled.

        Yes, many where and whom such method of "relocated." BUT, this did not happen right away, for a long time, the contingent was special, with an increased ability / desire to survive ... plus a powerful, tough control system! Just a little ... meeting with a hemp tie. After all, no one really bothered ...
        Not our case, it’s not even worth considering, for objective reasons, by the way.
        1. ccsr 17 February 2020 19: 32 New
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          Quote: rocket757
          Not our case, it’s not even worth considering, for objective reasons, by the way.

          Why not ours - can you give arguments?
          Well, for example, what to do with an experienced doctor who signed fake sick leave for money and got caught on this? What prevents us from avoiding a shameful court and a sentence with a sentence being served, albeit small, than sending it to a distant village for several years, where they built a medical assistant, but there is not a single specialist?
          1. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 36 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            Why

            Why, this is usually in children under 7 years old, then they grow up ... repeat
          2. rocket757 18 February 2020 08: 16 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            Why not ours - can you give arguments?

            A rigid, overwhelming control system does not exist. What exists, easily and passionately merges with criminal organizations and voila ... a completely gangster enclave appears, which cannot be controlled from the outside!
            It is not for nothing that OUR PEOPLE from those regions send you far with your idea ... to think carefully about what will come out of your idea in real life, with a high degree of probability.
            I can list a whole bunch of negative points, circumstances, but the described is enough to think about whether it is worth aggravating what is not ice anyway.
            Just remember who and how populated the far edges with all sorts of ... different and how the STATE exercised control over such a process. It will be asked, and our state will be able to do something similar at the moment ???
            PS ... my opinion - The idea, in principle, is interesting, to remove ... different, out of sight, BUT is it possible to do it here and now ??? will there be much WORSE on the far, but still OUR LAND?
            1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 58 New
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              Quote: rocket757
              A rigid, overwhelming control system does not exist. What exists, easily and passionately merges with criminal organizations and voila ... a completely gangster enclave appears, which cannot be controlled from the outside!

              I don’t believe it - you just need to send law enforcement officers as civil servants to those regions to SERVE, as is done in the army, and the rotation will do its job. By the way, I had a neighbor who served as military prosecutor in the North Caucasus for six or seven years after leaving Moscow, and then returned. So there are ways to influence the situation, but for this we need to understand what we want to get - either to lose the Far East in this century, or to make it a truly developed region, investing, including labor.
              Quote: rocket757
              It is not for nothing that OUR PEOPLE from those regions send you far with your idea ... to think carefully about what will come out of your idea in real life, with a high degree of probability.

              Of course they send, because they themselves want to move to the European part, and the fact that the Far East will become Chinese, they do not care for a long time. Although they cannot argue with anything concrete. Maybe you think that some stumbling specialist is better off getting a criminal record in his biography, or he himself agrees to go on a long-term business trip to a remote region without a criminal record - would you personally choose that, answer honestly?
              1. rocket757 18 February 2020 13: 15 New
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                Well, I wrote that I do not believe in the normal implementation of this plan by the current leadership, therefore, I propose not to aggravate it.
                We have structures that seem to be responsible for the supervision of the system for monitoring the serving of sentences by offenders, which are not very reliable! It will no longer be possible to bring them into proper working condition with simple half measures, the system has already developed, settled down.
                If anything, you need something completely new and completely with other people ... can they do it here?
              2. Obliterator 18 February 2020 13: 48 New
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                Quote: ccsr
                I don’t believe it - you just need to send law enforcement officers as civil servants to those regions to SERVE, as is done in the army, and the rotation will do its job.

                Nonsense. The police are not military. The army has a specific work and tasks different. Operatives and district police officers cannot be chased across territories - they have to work and live for a long time in one territory in order to know it, to know the entire population, to have an extensive agent apparatus of "informers". There, and so the outflow of personnel is large, and rotation will write more reports on dismissal.
                1. ccsr 18 February 2020 14: 00 New
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                  Quote: Obliterator
                  Operatives and precincts cannot be driven across territories

                  I didn’t talk about them - the question relates primarily to senior managers, and not to those who work on earth. And the point is not so much in the lower-level police, as in the prosecutor's office and the TFR.
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  and rotation will write more reports on dismissal.

                  Yes, something didn’t really run away from the police when they were sent on business trips to the North Caucasus, albeit short-term.
                  1. Obliterator 18 February 2020 22: 45 New
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                    Quote: ccsr
                    I didn’t talk about them - the question relates primarily to senior managers, and not to those who work on earth. And the point is not so much in the lower-level police, as in the prosecutor's office and the TFR.
                    The eldest, by the way, also ride, but the number of people there will not affect demographics at all. In the UK with frames, too, everything is bad. The situation is even worse than in the police.
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Yes, something didn’t really run away from the police when they were sent on business trips to the North Caucasus, albeit short-term.

                    They are not firing because of the Caucasus, but because of the filthy current conditions of service as a whole. Well, for six months in the North Caucasus, you can sustain a double salary. But even a couple of years somewhere in the north or the Far East - everything is already more complicated. And yes, because of business trips to the Caucasus, people also leave.
                    1. ccsr 19 February 2020 11: 15 New
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                      Quote: Obliterator
                      The eldest, by the way, also ride, but the number of people there will not affect the demographics at all.

                      And they should work to restore order on the ground, and not to make children of local women.
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      In the UK with frames, too, everything is bad. The situation is even worse than in the police.
                      I cannot refute this, because I don’t know the situation, but it seemed to me that the SKR was taking the best, and there was more order.
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      They are not firing because of the Caucasus, but because of the filthy current conditions of service as a whole.

                      I agree with this - there are improvements in the provision, but they have not achieved a radical increase in the prestige of this service. And it’s sad, because this is one of the most important attributes of state power, which everyone faces in everyday life, starting with district police and traffic police.
                      1. Obliterator 20 February 2020 21: 25 New
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                        Quote: ccsr
                        I cannot refute this, because I don’t know the situation, but it seemed to me that the SKR was taking the best, and there was more order.

                        And the best will not go there. The best will rake in money in a civilian way, and work for a patch at the police level, work at night, seven days a week, and often without holidays - this is needed only for young romantics. And then they quickly burn out and leave. In the UK at the land level, very difficult working conditions, high workload for employees, this causes a large turnover of personnel. And with a large turnover of professionals in the service will not.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I agree with this - there are improvements in the provision, but they have not achieved a radical increase in the prestige of this service. And it’s sad, because this is one of the most important attributes of state power, which everyone faces in everyday life, starting with district police and traffic police.

                        And who really needs this? There are policemen, okay, but neither the authorities, nor the people are particularly interested in their problems. There are no new Evsyukov majors, so everything is OK there.
                      2. ccsr 21 February 2020 12: 11 New
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                        Quote: Obliterator
                        And the best will not go there.

                        Unfortunately, this affected not only law enforcement agencies, but also the entire armed forces as a whole - the most capable ones are no longer torn there, as it was in Soviet times.
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        And with a large turnover of professionals in the service will not.
                        This is not even discussed - you won’t become a professional in five years, you need to plow for 15-20 years, that's when efficient employees are obtained.
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        And who really needs this?

                        First of all, the power itself. And secondly, we are with you - those who understand that this is necessary for a normal life for all citizens of the country.
                        In general, we can say that in our country it was not possible to raise the level of prestige of law enforcement officers to such an extent that every young person did not consider this something uninteresting and unhelpful. So it would be more useful to do this than to amend the constitution, especially since the people do not believe the judiciary in the first place.
                      3. Obliterator 21 February 2020 14: 33 New
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                        Quote: ccsr
                        This is not even discussed - you won’t become a professional in five years, you need to plow for 15-20 years, that's when efficient employees are obtained.

                        And then you will have to work on the most difficult cases and squads, in which the criminals push against the last, go to various tricks, and they do not skimp on paid and eminent lawyers.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Unfortunately, this affected not only law enforcement agencies, but also the entire armed forces as a whole - the most capable ones are no longer torn there, as it was in Soviet times.

                        In Soviet times, the public did not know by name thieves in law, and now they are almost discussing in the news who will take the title of chief in Russia after the next one they planted or shot. Well, the news is in the spirit that the chief of the GSU SK of Russia in Moscow is accepted on a bribe from the main Thief in Russia.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        First of all, the power itself. And secondly, we are with you - those who understand that this is necessary for a normal life for all citizens of the country.

                        The authorities are interested so that there would not be any resonant events, and so that in case of mass riots the police would remain on her side. Recently, the Government of the Russian Federation has established a bonus for the complexity of 100% of the salary for employees of a number of departments of the internal affairs bodies, military personnel and employees of the Russian Guard, serving in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Moscow and Leningrad regions. They are probably direct stronger and more honest than those who work in the regions?
                        And citizens consider the police either a useless structure that does not know how to catch real criminals, but there are famously enough drunk on the streets, or simply "rubbish", which is best avoided.
                        State-minded people, we have what is in power, what is popularly miserable.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        In general, we can say that in our country it was not possible to raise the level of prestige of law enforcement officers to such an extent that every young person did not consider this something uninteresting and unhelpful. So it would be more useful to do this than to amend the constitution, especially since the people do not believe the judiciary in the first place.

                        So it is necessary to change a lot of things. The Ministry of Internal Affairs to demolish the whole, and build on its remains virtually a new structure, with new personnel. As the Bolsheviks did, for example. Nobody will do this now.
                      4. ccsr 21 February 2020 17: 30 New
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                        Quote: Obliterator
                        So it is necessary to change a lot of things.

                        Everything that you write about, I understand, and I have the same opinion, and therefore I think that it is necessary to radically change the law enforcement unit. It’s just that there is hardly anyone who can master it, and the supreme one himself apparently does not want to do this.
  • Aag
    Aag 17 February 2020 18: 26 New
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    Take it to yourself ...
  • Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 35 New
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    Quote: ccsr
    I think that there is one way we should go in order to somehow rectify the situation with the settlement of our remote areas. Everyone knows how many different crimes that are not related to serious crimes are committed by Russian citizens in the form of taking bribes, writing out various certificates and documents with fake data, receiving fake disability, misappropriating someone else's pensions, etc. Moreover, this is not done by seasoned criminals, but by some presumptuous people who have forgotten about fear and conscience, and driven by greed. This category of offenders does not need to be condemned or given any short sentences in the colonies, but simply sent to remote areas for 5-10-15-20 years under the supervision of the police to work in local facilities without detention. The effect will be double - and specialists will appear there, and their content will be free for the state

    Already there was a similar, Australia to help you. Land already, in the courtyard of the 21st century, and you probably still haven’t read “The Adventures of Tomek ...”, pichalka ... request
  • tihonmarine 17 February 2020 15: 33 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    The eternal question ... What to do?
    It is being asked already here and there! There is no clear answer either here or there, and this is obvious.

    Under the kings, the central government paid little attention to the Far East, and only under I.V. They began to pay attention to Stalin, then everything went on its own, and after the collapse of the USSR, everything again went as it did 100 years ago. The Far East is far away, and power is even further.
    1. rocket757 17 February 2020 17: 50 New
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      In the late USSR, they did loud, pathos, often unproductive things .... what to do, those who were responsible for this direction, were mainly engaged in their opportunistic or selfish affairs ... so this fertile land was almost buried.
  • Observer2014 17 February 2020 22: 01 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    What's next? Siberia and the Far East are moving farther and farther away from central Russia and are more and more drawn into the sphere of economic interests of China. And then what?

    The eternal question ... What to do?
    It is being asked already here and there! There is no clear answer either here or there, and this is obvious.
    Can read the program that outlined, lowered from the top? I wonder if this will help to understand what they thought up there.

    And you trust your feelings. Imagine mentally the facts and cheers about the state’s attempts to stimulate the population in the Far East. Then pay close attention to your personal trust in the state. Weigh the pros and cons. The economic component. And get an answer what comes next hi
    1. rocket757 18 February 2020 08: 24 New
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      Quote: Observer2014
      And you trust your feelings.

      No, no, emotions, feelings on this issue do not help! As they say, a cold head is needed here and much, much to calculate, justify, organize and implement ...
      All this is not just costly, it was just b-fe, then it will pay off, all this requires political / organizational / new decisions, perseverance and work ... and with this we have a lot more complicated, in short muddy.
      I do not believe that the current ones will be able to solve this problem, like many others. Not that "caliber of leaders", not their aspirations ....
  • aybolyt678 18 February 2020 14: 26 New
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    Quote: rocket757
    same here and there! There’s no clear answer.

    is this already in Chinese ?? laughing
    1. rocket757 18 February 2020 14: 43 New
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      It’s quite ours -Neither here nor there in the Big Modern Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language:
      adv. they are. places razg.
      Like so much more.
  • Lamata 17 February 2020 12: 39 New
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    Yes, the words Russia will grow Siberia are profound.
  • Same lech 17 February 2020 12: 39 New
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    Alexander would like to hear from you not common phrases, but lay out the calculation of the numbers ...
    1. How many Chinese are in the regions of Russia?
    2. In proportions ...
    A. floor
    B. age
    professional profession
    with family or single
    D. citizen of Russia or China or another country (for example, USA)
    e.rod of activity in Russia
    how much time is in Russia
    z. from which regions of China arrived in Russia

    and a number of questions of a detailed and scrupulous nature, so to speak.
    1. rocket757 17 February 2020 12: 43 New
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      An article ... emotional, designed for them.
      Common sense tells you not to make hasty conclusions until you figure it out thoroughly.
      The question is - who will do it?
      1. Same lech 17 February 2020 12: 48 New
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        An article ... emotional, designed for them.

        That's it...
        I would like to know if any studies or calculations have been carried out on the quantity and quality of Chinese people in Russia ... from what moment their number can become dangerous for the Russian region.
        Do not forget the lesson of Serbia-Kosovo ... where the newly arrived Kosovar Albanians simply drove the indigenous Serbs from their places ... forming their own terrorist state.
        1. rocket757 18 February 2020 08: 32 New
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          Quote: The same Lech
          I would like to know if any studies or calculations were carried out on

          At least, on the radio I listened to the speeches of several serious scientists, their former by the way. Their analysis of the situation, predicting events and consequences, this is like a blatant voice !!!
          It all comes down to one thing, the activities of various "effective managers" are a disaster! Because they are MUCH DAMAGES in the sense that after finishing an educational institution such as a "tower" and the like, they imagined themselves to be experts in everything and everything .... these, just, will lead us to such an abyss that we will get out after their activities will have a long time and with big losses.
        2. Aleksandr21 18 February 2020 09: 25 New
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          Quote: The same Lech
          That's it...
          I would like to know if any studies or calculations have been carried out on the quantity and quality of Chinese people in Russia ... from what moment their number can become dangerous for the Russian region.


          And who will conduct these studies? State? It is not beneficial for him to cover this topic, since the topic is very sensitive, given the reaction of the neighbor. And the data varies, for example, from the latest information:

          “One in ten foreigners who came to Russia is a Chinese citizen. This is evidenced by the data of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation for the first half of 2019. During this period, 863 thousand Chinese were put on migration records."


          how many of them went back, there is no such information. As there is no information about the number of Chinese living in Russia, for example, there are outdated data from 2010 of 28 people, but it is very difficult to say how much these data correspond to reality, since migrants who work and live illegally are not taken into account, and the Taiwanese commission for compatriots in general writes about 943 thousand people living in Russia (for 998). What kind of commission it is and how this data got to it is not clear, but the only thing is clear that there is no real picture of the Chinese living in Russia, and if there are such studies, they are not disclosed.

          PS I found a blog consulting and logistics in China, the site is fresh for 2020. But the information is not clear from which year, but I think that it is relevant:

          "According to statistics, today about two million Chinese are officially living in Russia. This number can be compared with the population of the whole metropolis. Border control officials say that over the past two years, one and a half million Chinese citizens have illegally crossed the Russian border. There is no exact data on this However, it’s definitely known: the flow of Chinese moving to Russia is increasing every year.

          Most Chinese immigrants live in the Far East. "
  • The comment was deleted.
  • svp67 17 February 2020 12: 46 New
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    Before the "Chinese epidemic," the number of Chinese in Moscow and St. Petersburg was such that you could certainly think that they had already captured them ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 17 February 2020 17: 28 New
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      Quote: svp67
      Before the "Chinese epidemic," the number of Chinese in Moscow and St. Petersburg was such that you could certainly think that they had already captured them ...

  • Pashhenko Nikolay 17 February 2020 12: 49 New
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    Who should populate the Far East if the country's population decreases from year to year? A holy place does not happen empty, as they say. History goes on, some people leave, others come.
  • knn54 17 February 2020 12: 51 New
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    Just look at the Chinese textbooks and EVERYTHING becomes clear.
    Not the fact. That the Chinese will begin to move MASSIVE. But they know how to pump out resources. And is it not possible that the so-called joint ventures will begin to work ONLY for China .. Well, the small bureaucrats will unfasten the trifle.
    There are such concepts: de facto and de jure.
    1. GKS 2111 17 February 2020 12: 53 New
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      Several thousand hectares of Siberian taiga have already been transferred to China for concession. China has become seriously interested in Lake Baikal, and is exploring the possibility of supplying drinking water to Lake China from Baikal. Few people pay attention to the fact that Chinese greenhouses ALREADY stand in Russia everywhere in general. From the Pacific Ocean to the Black Sea. And without any "concessions". Silently they come, they steal an electrician, pump water reservoirs, take three crops a year, leave behind scorched earth (Chinese fertilizers - they are like that) and silently move on. The funniest thing is that Russia leases forests to the Chinese, expecting them to woodworking enterprises and pulp and paper mills will come and build. And the Chinese simply export raw materials to China, leaving behind stumps.
      - The readiness of some officials to lobby for the interests of China in the Siberian territories is amazing! - says Yuri Chernyshov, head of the Altai school of political research. - Of all the countries with which Russia borders, the potentially greatest danger comes from China. The geopolitical situation and the prospects for its development are such that we need to consider any appearance of China on our territory. The Chinese have a special migration: it is always compact and does not assimilate with the local population. There is no hope that the Chinese will become lousy! Before, Russia will turn yellow! But in fact, in the Siberian forest, the Chinese have long felt themselves masters. In the "forest" - Krasnoyarsk - Territory, 94% of all forests go to China.
      1. Ross xnumx 17 February 2020 14: 50 New
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        Quote: GKS 2111
        And the Chinese simply export raw materials to China, leaving behind stumps.

        Quote: GKS 2111
        - The readiness of some officials to lobby for the interests of China in the Siberian territories is amazing! - says Yuri Chernyshov, head of the Altai school of political research.

        Frighteningly, with what readiness these "temporary" officials give up natural resources belonging to the whole people without any plans for deforestation, without land reclamation.
        And vegetables grown by the Chinese on the content of pesticides, nitrates can not be compared with normally grown vegetables.
        The cashier-seller in the Yarche store is not advised to buy Chinese cheap vegetables !!! We specifically checked vegetables for nitrates (there was an opportunity - they gave us a dosimeter for temporary use) ... It's just obscurity ... I just wonder who lobbies the interests of suppliers of just such products?
        Grandmother in search of potatoes with a low nitrate content in the market did not find a single sample ...
        Quote: carstorm 11
        and what is there in the Chinese textbooks?)))

        What do you say? like that:

        I just wonder how much time should pass for the Chinese to accuse the USSR of assaulting the “Chinese island” Damansky in 1969 belay ?
        1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 17: 12 New
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          Not at all, because they will wait when everyone in Russia will become Chinese, they know how to wait.
    2. carstorm 11 17 February 2020 13: 23 New
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      and what is there in the Chinese textbooks?))) have you ever seen them yourself at least once?)))
    3. ssergey1978 17 February 2020 16: 39 New
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      The forest industry already works only for China. IMHO
  • Roman070280 17 February 2020 12: 51 New
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    How many Russian lives have been laid for this land to belong to Russia. How much effort and money our country spent to develop these regions.

    Who cares, it will belong to the Russian oligarchs, or to the Chinese .. Anyway, nothing will fall to the Russian people from this ..

    I understand the patriots who advocate the preservation of Russian Siberia and the Far East.

    Leopard change his spots..
    These "patriots" will only come when it is too late ..
  • Never mind 17 February 2020 13: 00 New
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    For the purchase of land, not only Chinese private business is involved in most cases, it is on the state. level.
  • bubalik 17 February 2020 13: 18 New
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    ,,, there is money, only people who are involved in them are not entirely honest.
    47 billion rubles, or 700 million dollars - this is the amount of damage that the ex-governor of the Chelyabinsk Ob. Boris Dubrovsky caused the region only road cuts (excluding his construction business projects, fueled from the budget, medical direction and other abuses). And at least 18,8 billion rubles were stolen from this amount.
    And so in most cases.
    And where are the Chinese here?
  • Goldmitro 17 February 2020 13: 20 New
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    Quote: GKS 2111
    - The readiness of some officials to lobby for the interests of China in the Siberian territories is amazing! -

    This modern bureaucratic evil spirits, and her, almost not the majority, is ready to sell her father’s father for grandmothers! And they have a cover - how can it really offend the Chinese, albeit arrogant and unceremonious? Classic bureaucratno matter what! Indeed, Xi is the best friend of our President!
    1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 13: 55 New
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      Even under Comrade Stalin, there was such a song: Russian and Chinese are brothers forever. And in politics, remember, there are no friends and there should not be friends.
  • carstorm 11 17 February 2020 13: 21 New
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    The author of a small educational program. non-residents of the Russian Federation can only buy land plots for individual housing construction; land for farming; plots with a private residential building for further residence in it on a temporary and permanent basis. and what sort of showdown in the village I don’t know. most likely they just buy ours and then surrender to the Chinese. there are no other options. do they have a showdown with themselves?
    1. domokl 17 February 2020 14: 06 New
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      You tell Listvyanka residents. I tried to find out how many sites for the construction of hotels belong to the Chinese. But there is no exact information ... From 35 to 50 they say. Is the hotel an individual building? Even with one Zhenya talked. True, Zhenya is a Russian name. He is Chinese. It is silent like a rock, although it seems that the hotel also has a cafe and a cafe ...
      In general, if you are very interested in the situation in this village, you can contact the local Russian movement against the Chinese. They have been struggling with this for many years.
      1. carstorm 11 17 February 2020 14: 16 New
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        I am just familiar with this specificity. for example, in the markets of Khabarovsk, the Chinese cannot rent places for a long time. ours rent and sell the Chinese rent. although there are very few Chinese now, but there are those who wish. as for individual construction, it does not imply commercial activity. I don’t know with whom they are fighting specifically there, but if it does not make sense with the Chinese who obtained citizenship. if with illegal buildings and commercial activities, then to the prosecutor's office. there is no response to the letter to the general. Well, if you have signed up with the locals, then, as they say in the family, it’s not without a freak. And they can’t change it. it’s a disassembly in fact. fighting for competition and movement will not help. it will end up with this business going down for each side.
  • ugrums1961 17 February 2020 13: 38 New
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    I read an interesting comment "some people leave, others come." I think the person who wrote this without thinking said. If this part leaves, western, eastern Siberia and the Far East, then Muscovy will remain with its richest wealth - peat and swamps, and that’s all. Then Russia will never again be either strong or rich, only at the expense of the Trans-Urals, our country is powerful and rich.
    1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 17: 10 New
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      Well, about the Muscovites in the union there was a button accordion, who they are, nothing has changed.
  • Ural resident 17 February 2020 13: 50 New
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    In the Urals, too, many Chinese come. I communicate mainly with young people. I can’t say anything bad about personal qualities, because this is a very positive contingent, but ... Everything is kind and fun, but the number is really growing frighteningly. There were 2 people a year ago, met Russian girls, one got married, another 4 came in September, also to get acquainted. Now about 20 people are "community", mostly men, girls too, but few. Everything would be fine, but if you think that in China there are about 100 million free men, then somehow there are concerns about the gene pool. Here is such a fun and soft expansion.
  • Clueless 17 February 2020 14: 11 New
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    If I had extra money, I would not invest in the same Baikal (tourist sector), for what is the point? Our domestic tourism is not developed (because it is very expensive !!!), and doing it only for the Chinese is stupid, because only those not very gifted put all their eggs in one basket. Now it’s obvious that on the Baikal the Chinese have become smaller for the epidemic, and this will be considered for about a year.
    1. ssergey1978 17 February 2020 16: 44 New
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      Many people come to Baikal from Europe.
    2. Aag
      Aag 17 February 2020 18: 44 New
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      And they, fools, do not know, are investing (the Chinese) .What does this feel like. 30 years as an Irkutsk citizen ...
  • Aleksandr1971 17 February 2020 14: 12 New
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    The content article is not true. If the Chinese come to Russia, it’s just how rich tourists look at a third world country. Since the income of the Chinese several years ago exceeded the income of the Russians, the Chinese have no reason to come to Russia for permanent residence. Those Chinese who remained in Russia from the 90s 90% fled back to China. And the remaining Chinese (10%) are going to escape from Russia. The average salary in Russia is now 36 thousand rubles, the average salary in China is 59 thousand rubles. despite the fact that goods in China are on average cheaper than in Russia. The author apparently either got stuck in the 70s, when it was believed that the Chinese were working for a bowl of rice, or deliberately lying. About the article, it should be said that the author outlined false information about the alleged settlement of Siberia by the Chinese, attributed to the Chinese some evil thoughts about the separation of Siberia from Russia, and then panicked and demanded that certain measures be taken by the Chinese. But in fact, migration flows show the opposite - a lot of Russians are trying to relocate to China. Especially Russian girls are intensely looking for Chinese grooms. Yes, and Russian guys strive to find places in China, mainly in the field of IT-technologies. The situation with the coronavirus epidemic showed how many people from Russia live in the Chinese province of Hubei alone. And the Chinese at the same time do not panic in their media that the Russians are trying to relocate to them.
    1. domokl 17 February 2020 16: 09 New
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      laughing The quote from the Deputy Governor of the Novosibirsk Region dates back to the beginning of this month ... So, don’t beat me with a digital sign .. And about the average salary ... Have you seen a lot of Chinese citizens working in Russian companies? They work in Chinese firms and receive many times more Russians working there.
      1. ccsr 17 February 2020 19: 44 New
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        Quote: domokl
        They work in Chinese firms and receive many times more Russians working there.

        Yes it is. But unfortunately, all of their “prosperity” is achieved through tax evasion and trade in mainly smuggled goods. I studied this very well from the nineties - then at VDNH I had to go to them for goods, now they have moved to Altufevskoe highway, there they trade in bulk in one of the buildings of the industrial zone. They can be squeezed easily, but they pay good bribes to our officials, and those who must monitor compliance with laws and taxation justify them.
      2. the finish 17 February 2020 20: 13 New
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        The Chinese automaker Havel built a plant in Russia and pays workers 22k while 50k pays for the same work in its Chinese factories.
    2. Aag
      Aag 17 February 2020 19: 01 New
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      Unfortunately, the Chinese are already full of sorts. Both in villages and construction sites (they get a lot of dollars, for such amounts, I think, it would be possible to collect local ones as well.) And in the markets behind the shelves our margenals are more often, and masters from the Middle Kingdom more and more on Kruzaki and Cayenne ...
    3. Tank hard 17 February 2020 23: 42 New
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      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      The content article is not true.

      Well yes ... you are directly "captain of evidence." wink
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      the Chinese have no reason to come to Russia for permanent residence.

      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Those Chinese who remained in Russia from the 90s 90% fled back to China.

      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      And the remaining Chinese (10%) are going to escape from Russia.

      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      that the author identified false information about the alleged settlement of Siberia by the Chinese, attributed to the Chinese some evil thoughts about the exclusion of Siberia from Russia,

      A masterpiece! laughing laughing laughing
    4. EvilLion 18 February 2020 08: 45 New
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      In China, half of the population in villages still lives, but for some reason you believe in fairy tales about some great China there. As for the Chinese salaries, I recently took out a Chinese electric kettle for 450 rubles. Let's try to organize production here in order to meet this price. The entire Chinese economy is electric kettles, and smartphones for white gentlemen in the USA and Europe. There will be no market, China will end.

      And yet, the Russians from the country never topple, unlike all of you, post-Soviet limitrophs. For a Russian, a Chinese is something from another planet, much more alien than a European, or an American.
  • Chaldon48 17 February 2020 14: 25 New
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    If the state of the Russian Federation continues to pursue such a policy, Siberia will be Chinese.
    1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 17: 07 New
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      Politics is a direct continuation of the economy, what kind of economy, such and such a policy is more understandable? ... From here everything goes further. For example, war is a continuation of the economy by political methods. Everything is solid economy, and nothing personal, something like that.
  • Most kind 17 February 2020 14: 52 New
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    Well, you, really, well, it's not worth all your efforts. Look at the map, where there is Irkutsk and Baikal, and where the Far East and Khabarovsk with Vladivostok, the Chinese intelligently cut off such a rather big piece from the supposedly immense Russia, and the majority of Moscow residents will not notice, we recall the Russo-Japanese land shake and cities like the port of Arthur, everything goes to this, so I advise the comrades from Moscow to recall the old and ancient anecdote, the weather forecast: in Moscow today it is clear and sunny, and in the rest of China it is cloudy and rain. So the judge of the Constitutional Court is slightly wrong, the one who says that the Russian Federation is not the legal successor of the USSR, the current Russian Federation does not even have the right to be called the Russian Federation, it just deprives miserable plagiarism of that old empire, one of whose children, Muravyov-Amursky, was squeezed from the same China , without a single shot a huge territory, and you all rave about the Far East, you do not need it, from the word at all.
  • Sergey39 17 February 2020 15: 28 New
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    Quote: Sergey39
    Attract immigrants from Europe.

    Cons instructed. Apparently you intend to dilute Russian blood with Asians?
    1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 17: 03 New
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      And what is Russian blood ?, it’s strange to consider your country, and you don’t even know the Chuvash or Tatar languages, etc. You don’t find the Volga, or the Russian river, but all around you, so do you think ? ...
  • Xenofont 17 February 2020 15: 28 New
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    I haven’t been to China, but in other countries the Chinese have been annoyed with their manners, plus they are messing up everything around as soon as possible. This is from personal observation. It is not for nothing that the residents of the Baikal region write petitions to the top with a request to protect Baikal from the Chinese tourist invasion.
    1. Aleksandr1971 17 February 2020 15: 43 New
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      There was such a sin for the Chinese - bad manners. I remember that in the early 2000s. being on a plane with the Chinese was very difficult. They screamed and litter terribly. And on the streets they also spat. This is because they killed their intellectuals and aristocrats in the 20th century. There was only a common people with the habits of a redneck. But the Chinese leadership in the zero years revealed this problem and launched a re-education program. I go to China every 5 years. Been there 4 times. Now the streets are clean, tidy and magnificent design. Not only in big cities, but in the outback. On airplanes, if someone from the Chinese is yelling, then they are only rude old people. Chinese youth keep quiet. The changes are dramatic. This is where China decisively surpasses not only Russia, but also most other countries - this is the organization of public toilets. Somehow my friend and I visited such a toilet and discussed - is it ever possible in our Russia? A comrade gloomily remarked that our toilets would be normal only if our population was physically replaced.
      1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 16: 57 New
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        In the organization of the masses, this is precisely the ability to organize and bring to a logical end, without leaving for later.
      2. vindigo 21 February 2020 12: 29 New
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        I read this opinion because of what they are noisy. They have a language with tones, and in order to understand each other in the crowd they shout. lol
    2. fk7777777 17 February 2020 16: 59 New
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      Well, you’ve never been anywhere, you don’t have to write garbage ...
      1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 09: 47 New
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        I'm generally a big fan of traveling. I visited 180 countries included in the UN (some up to 10 times, like Italy), and about 30 countries that do not have state status - these are colonies, overseas territories, overseas departments and more. On Vinsky’s site (in my opinion, the best website on Russian travel about independent travels, there is my profile - alten, my articles and travel statistics. So, unlike most Russians, I visited almost the whole world. And you, dear fk7777777, should be more tactful with people in communication on Internet resources.
        1. ccsr 18 February 2020 13: 15 New
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          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          I'm generally a big fan of traveling. I visited 180 countries belonging to the UN (some up to 10 times, like Italy), and about 30 countries that do not have state status

          And you think your IQ has grown dramatically from this? Do not tell me - any pilot, stewardess or ship captain has been doing this all his life, but this does not mean that they must be appointed an adviser to our government, or they have the right to indicate how we should live. By the way, who is Vinsky? I lived in Germany for almost five years, though for a long time, but I did not hear anything about him. He is an expert in what area?
          1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 14: 39 New
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            I guess your IQ made you a government adviser ..... As for Vinsky, check out (this is not as an advertisement): https://forum.awd.ru/
            1. ccsr 18 February 2020 19: 09 New
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              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              Perhaps your IQ made you an adviser to the government ....

              At least he allows me to be sensible about what is happening in our country.
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              About Vinsky - read

              This is not interesting to me, so it is unlikely that his forum can add anything to the assessment of what you are writing about.
  • Varyag71 17 February 2020 15: 45 New
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    But KRYMNASH is heard from each iron !!! And under these patriotic cries we may well lose both Siberia and the Far East.
    1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 16: 55 New
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      We ?, a little more - a little, and already as far as we, ...
  • fk7777777 17 February 2020 16: 53 New
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    do not write stupid author and everyone understands everything, thieves rob the country, what do you want ?, do you think Murmansk has a non-freezing port, in the whole region, I emphasize the entire periodic table, including transuranic ores, and what ?, how do you think things are happening there ?, the region is on the verge of life, in fact it’s just genocide ...
    1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 08: 37 New
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      Take haloperidol, transuranic ores, damn it.
  • Erich 17 February 2020 16: 57 New
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    Anyway, there will soon be more Chinese there, all the same there will be Chinese business, and still sooner or later Russians will leave (degenerate) from there. What is the point now to talk about it? There is a European part of Russia, eating the Urals. We would have to stay here somehow. Fertility in Russia is small. The Chinese have a lot of people and little land, they are our neighbor. It is a matter of time before Siberia passes under their protectorate. Unfortunately this is the case. There will be nothing but talk ...
  • Vladimir Mashkov 17 February 2020 17: 29 New
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    The Chinese are now friends like. Lovely and smiling. But these lovely and smiling people simply chop off a hand from friendly open Russians, everything that lies badly and does not stop at nothing for its own benefit! Russians should learn from Europeans about emigrants: it is VERY hard for a specialist to get a job by profession (except for non-prestigious ones and if you are not a global luminary of something). But the problem of the Chinese diasporas is a problem of the whole world. And the authorities need to constantly CAREFULLY monitor this complex problem!
  • 川 建国 17 February 2020 18: 06 New
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    During the trade wars between China and the United States, China imports less US agricultural products, such as soybeans, but we can import them with Russia, Russia has good land in the Far East and farmed agricultural products.
    1. domokl 17 February 2020 19: 06 New
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      Chuan Jianguo, no one is against cooperating with you. The question is that you are crowding out local business with a lot of money on hand. I know that in the PRC there are enough undeveloped lands. But China wants to work where everything has already been built and mastered. The conversation now is not about the settlement of Siberia by the Chinese, but about the extinction of the local population of these regions
  • dgonni 17 February 2020 18: 18 New
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    If in a nutshell!
    China is conducting the planned annexation of the south of the Far East, and in fact the entire Far East. But not by military but by economic and demographic methods! And yes! China considers Baikal to be its purely temporarily annexed territory according to historical canons and at the moment!
    With such a policy in the Far East, the day is not long when the cross-eyed polite people come and take an interest and whose is it far? And they will answer them 30 million Chinese and the same Chinese. And there will be no one in Russian to say anything in return. Something like this.
  • Old Horseradish 17 February 2020 19: 05 New
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    All lovers of Chinasies must watch! If the Chinayos treat their people this way, then how will they treat other peoples. It is only among oligarchic creatures around friends and partners. And they put on their people with the device. Something their children do not live in the Far East and Siberia. And these creatures build villas in the West, and not in Siberia.
  • depressant 17 February 2020 20: 27 New
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    And past unnoticed craftiness from the Author ...
    Mr. Staver, do you seriously believe that the Chinese diasporas in, say, the United States have the goal of huddling together on a single territory and demand autonomy? Of course not! You can’t blame the average Chinese for the idiocy. Because the average Chinese understands: where is China and where is the USA. But Siberia is a neighboring territory! She is on the border with China! The very territory on which it is easy to organize autonomy, adopt your own constitution with the right to leave Russia (we have 22 such republics! With such or aspiring to such constitutions - didn’t you know?), Then go out and join the territory to To China. Or at least create a similar situation with inevitable military tension. China is a border country with us! It does not border Europe. It does not border the United States. China borders with us! And I have no doubt that Comrade Xi, or any other comrade who will rule China by this unkind time, will not hesitate at all, just silently, with the philosophical smile of the Buddha, will introduce a million-strong army into the territory that has become "suddenly" controversial, and on that - - all. It was ours, it was yours. That will be the price of political betrayal of those who rule us - even local, even distant ...
    I will never forget how the church hierarch from the discussed geographical place anxiously turned to the head of state, which, they say, should be done with scaly whaling of the area. Let them take citizenship! - answered the head (almost wrote "Let them eat buns, since there is no bread!").
    1. fk7777777 17 February 2020 20: 55 New
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      Normal Chinese, that you stuck to them, and the Russians are normal, everyone believes that you are like children. The Chinese, by the way, if parents of different nationalities are generally so cool. And in Russia, parents can be from different regions of the same country, so a child at school can simply become rotten.
    2. EvilLion 18 February 2020 08: 35 New
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      There is a Russian army and police for this. Even if there will be at least 100% of the Chinese, they will be rolled out in tanks, but most likely, they themselves will already be Peters and Sergey, married to the Marines and Galins, and this wild China surrendered to them.
  • Sahalinets 18 February 2020 05: 20 New
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    I live on Sakhalin. There are almost no Chinese here.
    1. Aleksandr1971 20 February 2020 16: 37 New
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      Koreans are there - 6% of the population
  • Million 18 February 2020 07: 46 New
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    But for some reason, on TVs, the Solovyovs / Kiselevs are more and more hanging Ukraine on our ears.
  • EvilLion 18 February 2020 08: 32 New
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    In Russia, the Chinese are 200-300 thousand. Brave nobody prevented them from settling there a couple of thousand years ago, but they are too cold.
    1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 14: 46 New
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      Your phrase about "slanting" does not formally contain insult to the Chinese, because they are really slanting. But still, on your phrase, and judging by many other comments and statements both on this site and in everyday communication, you feel neglect of the Chinese, as if these people are much worse, dumber, dirtier, clumsy than we Russians. If we were talking about any Americans or Swedes, would our people have a disdain for them? On the contrary, most Russians would have the feeling that serfs had in relation to the master .....
  • Mikhail3 18 February 2020 09: 27 New
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    Of course for the Chinese, well, not for the Russians ?! Our state and the structures under its control that it built are struggling to destroy any production, any business, and generally any initiative. If, however, they still manage to somehow resist, that is, prove their unconditional survival, then this initiative is taken away by the representatives of the authorities in their favor, usually by the hands of the security forces.
    And since Siberia and the Far East are relatively sparsely populated, it is impossible to hide even a small profit from the keen, keen eye. Which causes "some problems." Living there is extremely difficult. After all, businesses taken from entrepreneurs cannot function in the hands of bureaucrats. An official is the exact opposite of an entrepreneur. The psychotype is different. So the company is either torn and sold to materials and equipment, or transferred to other classes. Whose?
    In Chinese, of course! Firstly, the Chinese have a lot of money. Since, unlike our state, the Chinese at one time decided not to steal but to work, their financial resources are inexhaustible. And their state is HELPING their entrepreneurs. Not to thieves in positions like ours, but to entrepreneurs.
    Secondly, our officials are naturally afraid of any kind of industrial growth in Russia. If we truly let the productive sector develop, then a country will appear that is interested in production. There is no trace of such power now, so everything is calm, but it appeared ... and hundreds of thousands of officials will fly away their places, most of them will go on trial, and there will be landings, confiscation ... So the Chinese are better.
    Eh ...
    1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 10: 00 New
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      Are you joking? The Chinese would like to get Siberia, so they would have received it 2000 years ago. Since ancient times, China has professed the teachings of Confucius, who taught the Chinese that there is no need to seize foreign territories because in China itself there are many territories that need to be put in order. In historically, China expanded only during periods when foreign dynasties ruled in it, especially the Tang, Yuan and Qing. Under the ancestral Chinese dynasties of Han and Ming, China did not occupy the territory north of the Great Wall of China. And now China is ruled by the Chinese. If they have territories to the north of the Wall, then it’s only as a splinter from the inheritance of the Qing Manchurian dynasty. Learn the story ....
      1. Mikhail3 18 February 2020 13: 23 New
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        How many people lived under Confucius in the territory where China is now? What were the production capabilities and construction technologies then? Then the Chinese Siberia was unnecessarily. Now Siberia can be turned into a paradise on earth in a matter of years. This is not done just because our elite, in the first place, is not capable of anything creative in principle, and secondly because capitalism is not for people.
        Well, what about history ... Anyone who accepts funny Chinese tales written from beginning to end at the very end of the 19th century, without the slightest eye on any certainty there and with the ABSOLUTE absence of real archival documents ... In general, do some self-education. Though slightly. If you are capable of it.
        1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 14: 31 New
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          By the way, the Chinese have the most reliable archives. In Russia and European countries, only experts know this, but not the bulk of the Russian and European population, who regard the Chinese as subhuman. The fact is that the history of the school is presented in an extremely Eurocentric manner, although Europe firmly took the lead in development only in the 18th century. But during the period after the collapse of the Roman Empire and until the 18th century, China, despite periodic decline, far surpassed Europe in terms of economic and technological development (for example, the beginning of the industrial revolution in China took place during the rule of the Song Dynasty, in the late 12th and early 13th centuries. Unfortunately, this industrial revolution was not completed due to the invasion of the Jin first Manchu, and then the Mongols). Check out the history of China and don’t throw offensive hints at other readers of the site. I still respect you
          1. ccsr 18 February 2020 19: 17 New
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            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            . Check out the history of China and don’t throw offensive hints at other readers of the site.

            Let professional historians do this — they have learned this and have the appropriate knowledge to correctly understand the history of China. As for me, I remember well the Soviet-Chinese relations since the sixties, the cultural revolution and the great leap, that's why I know what the population of this country is capable of under the leadership of another obsessed Mao - we need to stay away from them. And therefore, one can look at their turbulence and negotiate only with a larger nuclear club in our hand - it is impossible to do otherwise with them.
            1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 18: 15 New
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              Russia always needs a club, just in case. But as long as China does not behave aggressively towards Russia, we do not need to swing this club in their direction. Imagine that a person speaks quite friendly to you, but you respond to the appeal by waving a club. Do we, Russia, have nothing more to do than make ourselves another enemy - not only the West, but also China?
              1. ccsr 19 February 2020 22: 37 New
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                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                Imagine that a person is speaking quite friendly to you,

                They were friendly towards Vietnam, and even helped him in the war against the United States. And then they attacked him themselves. And you suggest to believe in their "friendliness"?
                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                But while China does not behave aggressively towards Russia,

                That's exactly what so far, and how they will behave after the next political psychosis, we can not predict.
                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                We, Russia, have nothing more to do than make one more enemy

                We are not making money - China, before, even during the time of the CPSU, was our enemy. You just don’t remember that time, but I remember it well.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Aleksandr1971 20 February 2020 16: 35 New
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                  Good. May China remain our enemy. It would be necessary then, right now, to direct something against China and introduce some sanctions against them. And the rhetoric against China must be changed from peaceful to aggressive.
                  1. ccsr 20 February 2020 18: 12 New
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                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    Good. May China remain our enemy.

                    They have been demonstrating this for a long time, just now they are hiding it behind their smile.
                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    It would be necessary then, right now, to direct something against China and introduce some sanctions against them.

                    This is not our method, and it makes no sense.
                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    And the rhetoric against China must be changed from peaceful to aggressive.

                    This is not a matter of rhetoric, but of sanity, and it suggests that our neutral position is the most optimal in all cases. We just have to get rid of the illusion that "Chinese and Russian are brothers forever," because we are enemies in the geopolitical space. This is what we must always remember, but it is not necessary to blow it at all angles ..
          2. Mikhail3 19 February 2020 09: 35 New
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            Are you seriously?! Archives ... I'm already fed up with telling this. Archives for China DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE. They are not here! NO!)) For countless times. The Chinese, after the death of each regular emperor, completely destroyed all chronicles, archives, etc. etc.
            Then they wrote everything again, based on the general political situation and just today's desire. Since China could not oppose anything to the “long-nosed barbarians”, the last time the Chinese decided to “win” in the past, describing how great they were, advanced and ahead of everyone before.
            What a 12-13 century ?! Nobody wonders what was there! And there are no ways to find out! Ugh you ...
            1. ccsr 19 February 2020 11: 19 New
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              Quote: Mikhail3
              What a 12-13 century ?! Nobody wonders what was there! And there are no ways to find out! Ugh you ...

              I also heard about this repeatedly, to the extent that they themselves do not know who and when built the Great Wall of China. Such construction could not fail to find reflection even in the memoirs of travelers or ambassadors of different countries, however, the information is extremely scarce.
              1. Mikhail3 19 February 2020 16: 03 New
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                What they call "genuine sections of the wall" consists of boxes of enormous length, in one brick, inside which earth with stones is poured, not even stamped as it should. Did it stand for several thousand years ?! You can walk around our cities, see what exactly can stand for a thousand years. And how it works.
            2. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 16: 02 New
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              With such comments, it’s best to stay on alternative history sites .... So, in your opinion, China does not have any archives, and no one knows what happened in China in the 12-13 centuries .... Maybe, in your opinion, other countries also had nothing in the past; after all, there were also revolutions, and probably also revolutionaries burned all the archives. And the history of all countries, in your opinion (or just the history of China?) Is all the fiction and fantasies of fools writing textbooks and anthologies for gullible public.
              For example, there are those who argue that the battle of Borodino was not, that this is a fiction: https://www.proza.ru/2014/09/02/1737. There are those who denied the Battle of the Ice: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/leta/ledovoe-poboisce-bitva-kotoroi-ne-bylo-5b4c0e129ac46800a6694060. In general, there is a whole layer of literature on alternative history and there are its adherents .....
              1. Mikhail3 19 February 2020 16: 15 New
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                Habitually “beat off” nonsense. Why can't I see links to the Archive of the Galactic Emperor? Nothing ...
                The Chinese history of the complete destruction of books (not even chronicles, but simply books. All that could be reached at the time of the Great Census) is not a secret at all. And the fact that they do not have history as such, the Chinese actually do not deny) Good luck in the battle of Borodino.
                1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 18: 10 New
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                  The Chinese do not deny the absence of their history, but are proud that their history is the oldest among the peoples now existing, including the Jewish one.
                  Such nonsense as you, Michael3, is here, let other readers of the site appreciate it.
  • nikvic46 18 February 2020 13: 32 New
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    There are many questions. Everyone is discussing amendments to the Constitution. One amendment raises a question for me. Amendment to discuss the alienation of Russian lands. It can be taken as a decision that is not subject to discussion. But it can be different. It is possible to alienate, but not to discuss. In this case, this is what happens. We are, as always, watching the departing train. Trading land is a crime. Leave the future generation. And it will be able to dispose of it. We produce gas and oil, where before that there was nothing.
    1. Aleksandr1971 18 February 2020 14: 35 New
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      Land trade, for example for construction or farming, is a very different topic compared to the transfer of sovereignty over part of a country's territory to another country, or with the theme of the Chinese threat.
  • Wanderer039 19 February 2020 00: 19 New
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    Canada also has a low population density, but it doesn’t populate the country with blacks, Chinese or Uzbeks ... Canadian beavers and Canadians live on earth ... That’s why DPNI ideas will always find favorable soil in Russia. .. For reference, the population density in Russia is 8.56 people per 1 square kilometer and there is no need to whine that the population density in the Far East is low, in the European part of Russia it is high, which does not prevent hucksters and corrupt officials from importing Uzbeks and others to the Russian Federation, for own enrichment and to the detriment of the Russian Federation and its To the local population ... The population density of Canada is 3,76 people per square kilometer ... In Australia, 3,27 people per square kilometer do not give citizenship there either ... Migrants, this is ethnic crime, this is the reluctance of visitors to comply with the laws of the Russian Federation and respect the indigenous population and its customs ... In general, for the people, nothing good ... And the problem here is in the personal, selfish interests of hucksters and corrupt bureaucrats, for the Russian Federation there is NO need for migrants !!!
    1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 04: 53 New
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      Do not be afraid, the Chinese will not populate Russia and Siberia will not be torn away. In Russia in 2002 there were 36 thousand Chinese, and in 2010 there were 28 thousand Chinese (this is 0,2% of the population). Now how much - I will not say, but the tendency to decrease. But just the Canada that you praised is actively populated by the Chinese. There are 1,35 million of them, i.e. 4% of the population. And in Australia in 2010, the Chinese also had 4% of the population. Although now this figure is probably much larger because every year 200 new Chinese come there. Now compare these numbers with Russia. The reason for the reduction of the Chinese in Russia and their increase in the Anglo-Saxon countries is the poverty of Russia and the wealth of the Anglo-Saxons. So your reaction to the Chinese in Russia, the Wanderer, is purely emotional and irrational, not true.
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      3. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 05: 08 New
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        Forgive me with the numbers - not 0,2% of Chinese from the Russian population, but 0,02%. Another reason to compare their share in the population with the Canada and Australia you mentioned. The difference in the proportion in the population is 200 times.
      4. Wanderer039 19 February 2020 07: 33 New
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        I don’t know where you got it from, but Canada is not even in a hurry to accept the Ukrainians now, and the Chinese at all ... Australia also, by and large, stopped accepting migrants, although 10 years ago it was relatively easy to move there from Ukraine, the Russian Federation , or RB ...
        1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 08: 00 New
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          The Internet is in your hands! Study the question yourself, moreover, relying on foreign studies, since they are more reliable.
          By the way, I travel a lot. When I first visited Australia and New Zealand in 2003, even then it seemed to me that there were more Chinese in the streets than white people. When I asked the guide: "where did White go," he answered me that whites mainly live in the suburbs and move by car. Therefore, white is hardly visible on the streets. Since then I have been there three more times. Last time in 2016. Visually on the streets of Sydney and Brisbane, the Chinese became less than white, but because they really, although growing, but a minority. On the other hand, the Chinese got rich and also began to settle in the suburbs and move around by car. In Canada, Vancouver, I was on a cruise in 2018. Vancouver seemed to me not at 4% (according to statistics), but at least a quarter of Chinese. And you are all worried about the settlement of Russia by the Chinese. Yes, the Chinese will run away and will run away from Russia!
    2. Mikhail3 19 February 2020 09: 37 New
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      Tell Canadians that they are not “populated” by the Chinese. Canadians will be in shock ...
      1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 13: 13 New
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        Just the Canadians moving to them the Chinese do not bother. Canadians are troubled by illegal immigrants, among whom there may be Chinese and Negroes and Mexicans and Ukrainians. If you go there legally (which is not easy, but quite possible), then there are simply no obstacles depending on the racial composition of migrants.
        1. Mikhail3 19 February 2020 15: 59 New
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          There are no obstacles. Soon all Canadians will be yellow and narrow-eyed. That fact, as they say.
          1. Aleksandr1971 19 February 2020 18: 04 New
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            yes you, sir, racist, judging by the statements .....
            1. Mikhail3 20 February 2020 08: 57 New
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              Try to learn something. At least for something. It’s late in age, but there is always hope)
  • 7,62h54 20 February 2020 22: 16 New
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    If the government does not owe anything to citizens, then citizens have a right to self-determination, for whom to work and in whose orbit of influence they are. Moreover, citizens act within the framework of laws that the government accepts.
  • sogdy 21 February 2020 10: 20 New
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    The author from what oak collapsed?
    When did Irkutsk (!) Become a window to the world? The VVAShieta through Irkutsk does not pass. Like the Mongolian tract - the backyard of the road from China.
  • VB
    VB 21 February 2020 15: 04 New
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    The problem lies in the political system hostile to the Russian people and their leadership.
  • Birdtalker 22 February 2020 16: 46 New
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    It is not a matter of the territory and the population, but the flawed distribution of taxes. When Moscow takes most of the money from the region, and then decides to "subsidize or not," and this depends on the plasticity of the back of the regional governors.
  • Aleksandr1971 23 February 2020 12: 25 New
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    I think that the development of Russian-Chinese relations leads to the creation, if not a strategic alliance, then at least to relations of good neighborliness and economic union.

    Of course, now Russia is relatively weak, while China is on the ascending line of its development. But I believe that from the end of the 21st century - the beginning of the 22nd century, Russia will again begin to actively develop and will be a junior comrade in an alliance with China.

    Climate change will cause Russian agriculture to become the breadbasket for the eastern hemisphere. Agriculture requires a significant amount of labor. Accordingly, the birth rate of the population will increase sharply in Russia, and by the beginning of the 22nd century, up to 300 million people will live in Russia. At the same time, in China the population will decrease to 1 billion people, in Europe to 800 million people, in the USA the population will increase to 600 million people. In Africa, the population will grow by the middle of the 21st century, but by the beginning of the 22nd century it will decrease to the values ​​of the beginning of the 21st century due to a sharp deterioration in climate, reduced rainfall, reduced yields, AIDS, civilian warriors.

    An increase in the population of Russia will make it possible to re-develop not only knowledge-intensive and resource-intensive sectors of the economy, but also labor-intensive sectors. With a population of 20 billion people. By the beginning of the 22nd century, only the middle latitudes of countries such as Russia or Canada would allow them to reproduce food at competitive prices. In Europe, in China, in the USA, agricultural production will experience a severe moisture deficit. In the Middle East, agricultural production will die, and the population will become mired in civil warriors for a piece of bread. Africa will wallow in instability and investment shortages. Europe will struggle to defend itself against illegal immigrants from the Muslim East and from Africa. Although this will not help Europe much because of the activities of European socialists (who do not give a shit about their citizens, just to "sip" human trash from third world countries).

    Accordingly, by the end of the 21st century, Russia will be the 5th country in the world in terms of real GDP after China, the USA, India and Japan (with which Russia will be equal). More or less close to the top five will be Brazil, Germany, Indonesia, France and Canada.

    The military-political confrontation by the end of the 21st century will be approximately as follows.
    1. The USA will form an alliance with North American countries and partially with the countries of the North of South America. At the same time, the US share in global GDP will decrease to 7-8%. The standard of living in the United States by the end of this century will fall due to the transfer of production to countries with lower wages.
    2. Europe will form its own alliance directed against Russia. The share of Europe will be 8-10% of global GDP. The average standard of living in Europe will fall sharply due to migrants who do not want to work, but will receive benefits.
    3. Russia will form an alliance from the countries of Central Asia + Belarus (and possibly Ukraine). Perhaps because there is a small chance that Belarus and Ukraine will be forcibly integrated into Russia, like the integration of Bavaria, or Hanover, or Hesse into Germany. Russia's GDP will be 3-4% of global GDP (against 15% in 1980). The standard of living in Russia will increase very much.
    4. China will be relatively on its own. Perhaps together with the allies of Myanmar, Cambodia, the Philippines and some others. China will reach 15% of world GDP. The standard of living in China will increase significantly.
    5. The countries of South America will gravitate toward an alliance with Brazil, but this will not happen by the beginning of the 22nd century due to the insufficient military-political and economic strength of Brazil. And it will not be able to form a monolithic political elite, and this will not allow Brazil to become one of the truly great powers within the 22nd century. Living standards in South America will increase slightly.
    6. India will remain in geopolitical loneliness, at the same time gravitating towards the USA and possessing 4-6% of world GDP. The standard of living in India will increase slightly, although this will be hindered by the growth of its population.
    7. The countries of the Middle East and adjacent North Africa, due to the dominance of the Islamic religion and ideology, will experience problems of population growth and lower living standards. This will lead these countries to lower investment levels, to civilian warriors and mutual conflicts. Migration to Europe will also intensify, which will begin to close from them, although not successfully. This process is inevitable because the climate in the Middle East will deteriorate catastrophically (As it has already deteriorated in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Iran).
    8. Sub-Saharan Africa in the 21st century will not be able to realize the opportunities that the 20th century gave it - the century of decolonization and the Green Revolution. Africans unfortunately do not carry a production culture and a culture of self-restraint, social obligations. Therefore, Africa in our century will consume natural resources and "" on Chinese and other investments. Africans will counteract any criticism with references to “white” racism and “colonialism.” As a result, by the end of the 21st century Africa will lead to the destruction of the natural environment, to uncontrolled population growth, to the absence of investment protection institutions, to civilian warriors, warriors between themselves and property claims to Western countries.In addition, there is a strong suspicion that the biologically intellect of Negroids, in comparison with the intellect of other races, is significantly less capable of innovation and a stable production culture.

    Accordingly, there will be no Third World War in the 21st century. In matters of forming military alliances, a significant strengthening of the role of international economic organizations will take place, which: 1) will make nuclear missile conflict impossible; 2) organize priority financing for the development of relatively backward regions of the Earth. These are the countries of South America (in which the relative weakness of state institutions is now observed) and, above all, in the countries of Africa south of the tropic of Cancer (where the failure of state institutions is observed).

    As for the development of relations between Russia and China in the 21st century, I think that if some small excesses are possible, then in general development will be peaceful and mutually beneficial. The population of Russia and China will be very slow, but mixed up (since these are neighboring peoples, but different in terms of culture). Militarily, Russia and China will stand against each other, protecting their backs and arms outside, since mutual conflict will give them little benefit, but will allow external forces, primarily the West, to capture both Russia and China, which neither Russia nor China needs .

    I believe that by the beginning of the 22nd century the following 3 great states will be in the world: 1. China; 2. USA; 3. Russia.
    As for India, there is a great risk of its collapse due to the development of nationalist tendencies. But if India does not break up, it will be the 2nd state in the world in terms of GDP, after China. Although this will not provide India with the status of a great power (internal contradictions and the problem of the absence of a state-forming nation are too strong. Japan and Germany will simply lag behind in development due to high production costs and the transfer of capital to other countries where production is cheaper. Brazil and Indonesia will not be able to enter the number of great powers because of the low quality of human capital (simply people there are very unsuitable for state building).