There is a discussion in Germany whether to recognize the Holodomor as genocide of Ukrainians

Although the exact date has not yet been determined, the German parliament will soon consider adopting a resolution on the Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-1933. The Bundestag will decide whether to consider these events as genocide of the Ukrainian people.

A German professor discusses this topic in his article. stories Stefan Plaggenborg on the pages of the Frankfurter Allgemeine. He believes that it is wrong to call the famine in the USSR in the 30s of the last century the genocide of Ukrainians. Moreover, he is surprised that the Bundestag generally considers it necessary to deal with this issue. On the one hand, Germany has nothing to do with the Ukrainian famine and its organization, and on the other, the German Ministry of the Interior has previously recommended to refuse to consider this initiative.

Professor Plaggenborg does not deny that in 1932-1933 the activities of the central and local authorities in the USSR led to starvation, which killed several million people. But he cannot understand why it is only about Ukrainians, because among the dead there were many Kazakhs, Germans of the Volga region and Ukraine, Russians. In addition, the researchers failed to find a single document that would prove that Stalin and the party leadership demanded the destruction of the Ukrainian nation.

The author of the article also says that Ukrainian historians consider the events of the 30s in the USSR as genocide in the Ukrainian-German commission on the Holodomor, while the German representatives of the commission do not support this point of view.

Plaggenborg also reasonably notes that even if the Bundestag decides to recognize the famine in Ukraine as genocide, this decision will in no way affect anything.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

Bullshit, both about activity and about quantity.

[Finches]

That’s what it is in reality, this is genocide of the brain of Ukrainians ... Ragul microbes unknown to science in the countryside!

[Dmitry Donskoy]

And I thought it was a sinful thing that only our Duma was engaged in all kinds of nonsense, but it turned out that the Bundestag also had nothing to do.

[Warrior with machine gun]

Already someone, and the Bundestag on such issues should stick their tongue between their own buns for another 150 years at least, they’ve come there with bread and salt, (the Nuremberg process dulls if these barkers already started)

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Warrior with a machine gun

Already someone, and the Bundestag on such issues should stick their tongue between their own buns for another 150 years at least, they’ve come there with bread and salt, (the Nuremberg process dulls if these barkers already started)

Euromerikosses (together with all kinds of mongrels such as the Baltic states, Psheks or Svidamit) with persistence worthy of a better application, do the same (adjusted for modern times), which led to WWII !!

[Warrior with machine gun]

Yes, and PMV, too, personally reminds me even more.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Warrior with a machine gun

Yes, and PMV, too, personally reminds me even more.

it is possible ... however ... the consequences of the "second" are much more tragic !!!

[Commandant]

Quote: Finches

That’s what it is in reality, this is genocide of the brain of Ukrainians ... Ragul microbes unknown to science in the countryside!

Everything is much simpler and more cynical here Eugene .. Such a world hitting Russia is not just like that .. In Russia they want to make excuses and apologize first and foremost .. And then the main wave will go, these are claims for huge amounts (like Germany, the Germans see already payments sharply cut how much you can already pay) ..
But Russia is rich and gaining weight ..
By the way, Jews began to file claims against Poland for the return of property, etc. There’s something worth 300 billion, because Jews in Poland owned almost half of everything that was there ..
So think who benefits from this persecution and fraud of historical facts .. It costs us to apologize at least once and EVERYTHING! Fact recorded

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Commandant

... Should we apologize at least once and EVERYTHING! Fact recorded

I very much agree with you: to back off in something and then really try to monetize all these insinuations. In no case should you give in.
It all started not yesterday and will not end tomorrow. So in 2000, in the afternoon of Friday, I happened to be in the same line at the airport of the capital of Europe - Brussels. The afternoon of Friday is noteworthy for the fact that European deputies fly home. Two organisms in suits are standing and talking aloud that the Germans are not good people and refuse to help the European Parliament promote their claims to the Russian Federation about “occupations, seizures” and the like, accordingly avoiding any talk of compensation. After a modest remark that the Germans think about the future, so that they do not have such demands 'gentlemen' retreated ... so these ideas newly emerging democracies someone very competently prompts and cold war continues

[lucul]

So someone very competently prompts these ideas to the newly emerging democracies and the Cold War continues

These warfare continues from the time of Svyatoslav ....
By the way - NOT ONE HUD.the film was not removed about Svyatoslav - NOT ONE - the taboo ....

[orionvitt]

Quote: lucul

NOT ONE HUD.Film was shot about Svyatoslav - NOT ONE - taboo

Filmed. In Soviet times. And about Svyatoslav, and about Princess Olga, and about Prince Igor. In general, about the unification of Slavic tribes into a single state. The topic is especially relevant now.

[Finches]

Yes, I seriously do not perceive news from Ukraine since 1991! And other republics lymetrofah! I like how Father Butk makes himself emperor Palpatine or Kazakhstan seeks the historical roots of the Great Kazakhstan Haganate, or how the Komsomol forgive Lord Gribauskaite told the world how she fought underground with the Soviet occupation, Azerbaijan, which, apart from selling tomatoes and oil, is nothing more Doesn’t know how, mows under a superpower ...

[Commandant]

Quote: Finches

or Kazakhstan is looking for the historical roots of the Great Kazakhstan Haganate, or how the Komsomol forgive Lord Gribauskaite told the world how it fought underground with the Soviet occupation, Azerbaijan, which apart from selling tomatoes and oil no longer knows anything, mows under a superpower ...

Don’t tell Eugene, it’s kind of funny looking at their attempts and at the same time sad how they betray and fool ..
And most importantly, this is one hundred Russia out of all the troubles comes out updated and even stronger .. I really hope so !!
Write Zyabletsov, but be careful .. It's a pity if they shoot at you ..

[Finches]

I try, but not always succeed ...

[Commandant]

Quote: Finches

I try, but not always succeed ...

You’re doing well, but I don’t really .. But I do not lose my fortitude Good luck and pure soul, patience in this terrible mess of information ..

[Kerensky]

Azerbaijan, which, in addition to selling tomatoes and oil no longer knows how,

Strongly against. Do you say tomatoes? Have you tried to grow them? To transport? Keep? Pens to sort through constantly ?!
Do not treat people like this ....

[Commandant]

Quote: Kerensky

Azerbaijan, which, in addition to selling tomatoes and oil no longer knows how,

Strongly against. Do you say tomatoes? Have you tried to grow them? To transport? Keep? Pens to sort through constantly ?!
Do not treat people like this ....

It was earlier to grow it, now they are buying up or taking away on the spot .. Well, crime, etc.
You don’t have to drive here .. You are "our" growers of tomatoes and carnations .. We don’t powder our brains with tomatoes ..

Everything is written ..

[UEPE]

I, fully support you, worse, discredit and substitution, absolute with zero .....

[maidan.izrailovich]

Should we apologize at least once and EVERYTHING! Fact recorded

So already "fixed".
The so-called "Katyn affair". The lies and falsifications were recognized by the traitors Gorbachev and Yeltsin as true.
Why is the current leadership of the country silent? We are silent, and fabricated guilt continues to hang on us.

[Karaul73]

Yes, your statements, comrades fascism smack! You need to be more human.

[The black]

The "Holodomor" was a consequence of the actions of "enlightened" Europe, first of all Great Britain, which refused to sell the necessary machines to the Union even for gold, only for grain to create this famine. And, by the way, I remember the stable phrase - "the starving Volga region", which suggests that there was famine everywhere, not only in Ukraine.

[Commandant]

Quote: Black

The "Holodomor" was a consequence of the actions of "enlightened" Europe, first of all Great Britain, which refused to sell the necessary machines to the Union even for gold, only for grain to create this famine.

But you're right. Thanks recently I read an article in the AIF about this! By the way, after the NEP vaunted, when it was covered up .. Deliveries of grain increased 10 times .. And the collective farms were nevertheless more expedient in our sharply continental conditions and we won the Great Patriotic War due to the concentration of everyone and everything in agriculture ....
I do not praise collectivization (the excesses were enormous), but for Soviet Russia in complete blockade. This was the only way ...
We demanded grain and currency from Russia for a breakthrough in the country's industrialization, we needed it like air ..
These are the things Black in counterintelligence ..

[Karaul73]

But Ukraine cannot call for the recognition of the Holodomor of the Volga population! What side of the Volga to Ukraine. Remember and do it yourself so that it does not happen again. And we will remember our grandfathers and grandmothers, who were starving and were happy in childhood to any biscuit cracker. And we will remember great-grandfathers who died of hunger right in the field on arable land.

[Egoza]

Quote: Sentry73

What side of the Volga to Ukraine.

Well, there are pictures from the Volga region. When the "guides" in the "museum" poked it in the nose, we were proudly told: "So what? Ukrainians lived there too."

[maidan.izrailovich]

And we will remember ...

We will also remember how the Petliurites and other ukronatsiks slaughtered Russians in the Russian city of Kiev.

[mikstepanenko]

The Holodomor "was a consequence of the actions of" enlightened "Europe ..... by the way, I remember a stable phrase -" the starving Volga region "

You are confusing several processes that took place at different times: the famine in the Volga region in 1921-1922, the so-called famine of 1932-1933. There was a drought in the Volga region, and famine was its consequence. The famine of 1932-1933 had several reasons, it was not only on the territory of the Union, but throughout Eastern Europe. But the Union hit the hardest of all, the reason for which was the illiterate actions of the authorities. That year there were ideal conditions for the development of sporella, a fungal disease of cereals. Therefore, the harvest was less than planned and was heavily infested with sporella. Non-observance of elementary norms of agrotechnology in individual farms played a role. And this fungus is poisonous and hallucinogenic. In the Union for the harvest, contracts were signed for the supply of equipment. The harvest was less than planned, and therefore the supply of equipment for industrialization was disrupted. This is one reason why the crop was raked, sometimes cleaned up. Plus, collectivization, violent, began that year. There are several reasons. For individual farmers, it is impossible to comply with the rules of agricultural technology (which means that the harvest suffered) and it is very difficult to ensure grain procurement (and this is a source of funds for industrialization). But the peasants forcibly driven into collective farms sabotaged the work, plus sporella, as a result, the harvest is much lower than planned. Plus, at night, peasants massively removed bread from their former plots and hid them in pits, and there were ideal conditions for the development of sporella. As a result, people starved in winter, but there were almost no hunger deaths. In the spring, when the snow melted, they began to open pits, grind the grain in hand mills and consume it. There were massive poisonings. Famine was a frequent phenomenon in tsarist Russia (and in Europe as well), it always looked the same. Weight loss, "living skeletons", was even the expression "bony hand of hunger." In 1932-33, the picture is different - people swelled up en masse, their bellies swelled. This speaks of poisoning, liver failure. And if the "living skeleton" can still be saved, then if the liver fails. When the authorities realized this, they grabbed their heads and took possible measures. The confiscation of all the grain, the pits were looked for and the grain was dug out. Then it was washed, dried in elevators and distributed to canteens, both city and collective farm (they were not given to individual farmers). And people with bloated stomachs (it was already impossible to save them) were isolated. Up to the point that entire villages were surrounded by troops and did not give anyone an exit.

[Finches]

Quote: Sentry73

Yes, your statements, comrades fascism smack! You need to be more human.

And although there is no fascism in my statements, nevertheless I will answer you - And your defeatism and liberal repentance - it is still unknown what is worse for Russia! However, it is known that two Empires under such repose collapsed, but they do not allow the third to be reborn! But Russia was, is and will be the third Rome, in spite of even the national - the betrayal of some!

[Chigi]

Specify, please, and what kind of "two Empires" ruined? I only know one.

[Finches]

Because, apparently, you are a loser

[Chigi]

So what should you teach us, poor students, a lesson "in your own field"?
The gut is thin?

[Finches]

Each lesson, in the modern world of commodity-money relations, costs money - pay - I will conduct classes! In the meantime, for free, they will be likened to you - mock, troll and mock!

[Chigi]

All clear There is nothing to say, you "lied".
What dialogue brought up)

[Finches]

You won - you are great!

[Commandant]

Quote: Chigi

Specify, please, and what kind of "two Empires" ruined? I only know one.

You do not know this ..?

Quote: Finches

Because, apparently, you are a loser

To the point of Eugene .. Victim of the Unified State Examination .. What is taught there generally horror ..
I was not an excellent student, but compared to these, I feel like Einstein ..!
And the most offensive is how aggressive they are in their ignorance in everything. and they still impose this on us.
We are forming a consumer society, but we will not allow this ..

[Finches]

Your truth ... Sorry!

[Chigi]

Uh, not ... The question was not about the 2 great empires that fell apart.
Here is a quote

Quote: Finches

However, it is known that two Empires under such repose collapsed, but they do not allow the third to be reborn!

So you yourself are a victim of the exam.
What 2 Empires fell apart under repentance ????
And Dear, Do not Rude Me More

[Commandant]

Quote: Chigi

Uh, not ... The question was not about the 2 great empires that fell apart.
Here is a quote

Quote: Finches

However, it is known that two Empires under such repose collapsed, but they do not allow the third to be reborn!

So you yourself are a victim of the exam.
What 2 Empires fell apart under repentance ????
And Dear, Do not Rude Me More

Relax and do not spoil the people communication .. voltage or anestend? Or whatever you have ..

[Chigi]

In the nibble at us like you give. Shut up, if you have nothing to say, do not blather, dear)

[Commandant]

Quote: Chigi

In the nibble at us like you give. Shut up, if you have nothing to say, do not blather, dear)

yes I am silent ..And what is said then and why is such malice dear? I'm just like that
Go to sleep .!

[Chigi]

Quote: Commandant

Relax and do not spoil the people communication .. voltage or anestend? negative Or whatever you have ..

Well, what are you, what anger may be with me, well, what are you)))
Sleep well)

[tovarich-andrey.62goncharov]

Yes, you went ...

[UEPE]

no, this is not fascism - We just want to live!

[1959ain]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Bullshit about both activity and quantity

German occupation of Ukraine in 1917-18, 1941-43. genocide of Ukrainians is not considered

[Thrifty]

But what about the polyakhia, for most of the "naked uk-Roina" at that time was part of the polyakhia?

[Dur_mod]

And there was no hunger, the brother’s wife was from a village in the Khmelnitsky region, the border was behind the village, so they went there for bread, they could change everything for everything.

[The leader of the Redskins]

I am joining. Not the Bundestag is the thing ...

[NF68]

The Germans have enough of their own problems. Could pay more attention to precisely these problems.

[lucul]

The Germans have enough of their own problems. Could pay more attention to precisely these problems.

Well, the Jews are demanding. ..

[NF68]

Quote: lucul

The Germans have enough of their own problems. Could pay more attention to precisely these problems.

Well, the Jews are demanding. ..

A Jew is not very necessary. They have more questions for modern horses. And for past affairs, too, there is something to present to Ukraine.

[bayard]

Quote: lucul

Well, the Jews are demanding. .

Zhydobandera - they call themselves that. And this is more than a name - there are plenty of them in Israel now.
Vote.
And recognize.
Germany is now completely different - manual.

[Lopatov]

Quote: lucul

Well, the Jews are demanding.

?
Jews, on the contrary, are actively opposed.
As far as I understand, they believe that there was only one genocide, and all the others "erode" it.

However, they themselves are not without sin. Their Holocaust effectively "overshadows" the much larger extermination by the Nazis of various groups in Europe.

Ukrainians are simply trying to follow their path. Isolating from the huge tragedy of Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus their small, sovereign "genocide", and trying to assert. that only they were destroyed purposefully, and this was done by "Moscow". And all the other Slavs and Kazakhs died of hunger just like that, through their own fault.

[pv1005]

Quote: Spade

And all the other Slavs and Kazakhs died of starvation just like that, through their own fault.

They themselves were starved to death as a sign of solidarity with the starving Ukrainians and strongly condemning the bloody regime of Stalin.

[not main]

Quote: Spade

Ukrainians are simply trying to follow their path. Isolating from the huge tragedy of Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus their small, sovereign "genocide", and trying to assert. that only they were destroyed on purpose, and this was done by "Moscow

Better not say!

[Chigi]

Quote: lucul

Well, the Jews are demanding. ..

Jews in 2014 promised "to prevent the revival of fascism in Ukraine."
Nothing, counted, cried, and allowed ... or maybe even financed.

[Karaul73]

They have fewer problems. They have a budget surplus of tens of billions.

[Bacha]

Better let the Germans recognize the genocide of the Slavs in 1941-1944 in the USSR.

[paul3390]

Not only the Germans, but also their accomplices. Bandera, Balts, Hungarians, Finns. Etc.

[Podvodnik]

Quote: paul3390

Not only the Germans, but also their accomplices. Bandera, Balts, Hungarians, Finns. Etc

Ancestors near Mogilev were in the occupation. My grandmother said that what was most feared was not the Germans (the usual Wehrmacht), but the "hangers-on" from the Baltic states. They even called them some specific word. I, being still a child then, could not understand everything, we fought with the Germans !? Under the USSR, they didn't talk about this at all. I used to think that the Germans also burned Khatyn. It turned out that the "brothers" are Slavs. And we were all silent, we didn't want to ruin our friendship.

[tovarich-andrey.62goncharov]

The whole enlightened, but terribly democratic Europe ... And yet regularly ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Germany is generally better not to open its mouth in our direction on this topic.

We'll bill the Fritz for 1941-1945 in life they will not pay.

Of the 27 million dead soldiers, there were only about 000 million. The rest were civilians !!!

In what country were they atrocities as much as in the USSR ?!

And our politicians and diplomats need to tighter respond to such attacks of the West and their accomplices.

[fruit_cake]

of these 10 million soldiers, there were few professional soldiers, the bulk of them are still the same civilians who went to the front

[mat-vey]

Quote: fruit_cake

of these 10 million soldiers, there were few professional soldiers, the bulk of them are still the same civilians who went to the front

Well, they are not born as soldiers .. but in difficult times you have to wake a soldier in yourself, although you may feel, let’s say hostility to military affairs - the main thing is to protect yourself ..

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

In what country were they atrocities as much as in the USSR ?!

Recently I watched a French film about the "terrible times of occupation" of France.
I remember the phrase of the shopkeeper, who apologizes to the customers that "life has become hard, there is not enough food and he can offer Madame and Monsieur only three kinds of cheese" and "the wine has become completely different from what it was before."

And what about the "heroism" of the French Resistance? Show the German language when the German turns the corner.

If I were the French, on pain of prison, I would prohibit the export of such films outside of France. Suddenly someone else in the world will know how the poor French "suffered" and "fought".

[UEPE]

EEE, bro, you filter the military from civilians

[mat-vey]

"Plaggenborg also reasonably notes that even if the Bundestag decides to recognize the famine in Ukraine as genocide, this decision will not affect anything." - Well, yes, it will not, you know, from whom and from where. ...

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: mat-vey

Well, yes "will not affect", such a howl and stench will rise, you know from whom and from where ...

I agree with you. Further, the "non-brothers" will begin to shower the UN and other international organizations with demands to recognize genocide. Arguing that the Bundestag has recognized ...
Although, the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the US Senate has not yet helped them much. Turks do not repent and do not want to pay.

[teron]

You are absolutely right. They do not recognize the "Holodomor" as genocide - they will insult Ukraine, they admit that relations with Russia can be spoiled. Why they took up this business is not clear.

[Thompson]

The fact itself will be important. And then like an avalanche. all mongrel pick up.
I think it's enough for such processes to simply observe, discuss, express concern

[Egoza]

Quote: mat-vey

Well, yes "will not affect", such a howl and stench will rise, you know from whom and from where ...

If they do, then again there will be "Europe for us", and if so - pay money for the Holodomor.

[Po-tzan]

In international politics - as in the St. Petersburg gateway: if you recognize a part of your claims to yourself, then you automatically recognize all claims to yourself. I hope our rulers are smart enough to deny the Holodomor to the last.

[New Year day]

Hans! You have nothing to do? Take care of immigrants in your own land, why do you need a famine?

[Alexander Sosnitsky]

Germany is directly related to the Ukrainian famine, as throughout Russia, which sent a wagon of gold and 100 Bolsheviks through Finland to St. Petersburg. Let them start from this.

[Aleks2048]

They are there at home (outside the Russian Federation) at least what options can be considered and any resolutions adopted ... Rewriting their history textbooks in the mainstream that they like at least every day ... And we just don't give a damn about it, we can probably not react in any way. .. Although one can think about the introduction of any sanctions ... but I do not see much sense in this. The question is, we need to clearly formulate our position in Russia. Normally writing it in a history textbook. The RF Ministry of Education should think that a mandatory requirement for a history textbook is the presence of a paragraph on topics about the Second World War, about revolutions in the Russian Federation, about the USSR, the role of Lenin, Stalin, the so-called "Kuril question", questions about the Crimea, etc. (you can directly pick up controversial points) where questions would be directly spelled out that cast doubt on the Russian point of view on certain historical facts and comprehensive motivated answers immediately spelled out. Unfortunately, it cannot be otherwise with today's youth. No nonsense will force the bulk of young people to read, let alone analyze historical literature. So I think the way to directly write the questions and answers to them in the textbooks would be the best. This will ultimately lead to the fact that the average statistical Russian will not hesitate to be able to shut up any foreigner who foolishly argue about the history of the Russian Federation and call him a liar. This should be promoted on the territory of the Russian Federation, otherwise the story will remain forgotten, our ancestors will be slandered, and their exploits will turn into crimes and the younger generations will simply feel guilty and inferior and this should not be allowed.

[Operator]

According to the definition of the Nuremberg Tribunal, genocide is the destruction of one ethnos by the hands of another ethnos.

The genocide of Ukrainians by the hands of Ukrainians is something new: after the so-called so-called Ukrainian SSR was held in the 1920s indigenous majority of the members of the CP (b) U and the NKVD of the Ukrainian SSR were Ukrainians according to the passport

And it is weak for the German parliamentarians to recognize the genocide of the artificial famine of 1943, which the British organized in Bengal (today's Bangladesh) through the total removal of grain and scorched earth tactics (as a preventive measure from switching local residents to the side of the Japanese advancing from Burma). As a result, between 4 and 6 million Bengalis died according to various estimates.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Operator

after the so-called so-called “Ukrainian SSR” in the 1920s indigenous majority of the members of the CP (b) U and the NKVD of the Ukrainian SSR were Ukrainians according to the passport

Even L.I. Brezhnev on the passport issued in 1957 was Ukrainian, not to mention N.S. Khrushchev. They themselves ruled, let them understand themselves.

[UEPE]

Comrade, We chose what we wanted, want to repeat?

[pv1005]

Quote: Operator

And it is weak for the German parliamentarians to recognize the genocide of the artificial famine of 1943, which the British organized in Bengal (today's Bangladesh) through the total removal of grain and scorched earth tactics (as a preventive measure from switching local residents to the side of the Japanese advancing from Burma). As a result, between 4 and 6 million Bengalis died according to various estimates.

So they, too, are not out of evil, but out of kindness, since, unlike Russia, they hated fiercely free Ukraine.

[Was mammoth]

Scary photo

[Cowbra]

To admit! It was especially expressed in the territory of modern Western Ukraine, in Poland ... The genocide of the Rusyns there ...

[Ros 56]

What, the Bandera infection has already spread to the Germans, where is your coronavirus.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Ros 56

What, the Bandera infection has already spread to the Germans, where is your coronavirus.

Bandera infection, compare Ebola.

[kit88]

Before burghers seriously take Kiev nonsense, it would be nice to take a quick look at modern Ukrainian history textbooks. And then WITH THEM EVERYTHING WILL BE CLEAR.

The Ukrainian nation arose 40 thousand years ago and in the middle of I thousand BC. e. created the state "Great Ukraine"

“Ukrainians” were “true arias”. In ancient times, their capital was Ariygrad, and Ariyslav ruled them

The history of "Great Ukraine" amazes readers with its greatness. "Ukrainians" smashed the army of Persian kings.

"Ancient Ukrainians" successfully opposed the army of Alexander the Great, who allegedly tried to capture the Ukraininets Peninsula (Crimea), to capture the "Ukrainian" cities and ports.

"Proud Ukrainians" successfully opposed the Roman legions.

The Cossack Ukrainian army “drove Napoleon” out of Russia.

[Dur_mod]

Where do you find such nonsense? I reviewed my daughter’s history books I didn’t find !?

[tihonmarine]

Although the exact date has not yet been determined, the German parliament will soon consider adopting a resolution on the Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-1933. The Bundestag will decide whether to consider these events as genocide of the Ukrainian people.

Well, why not the Germans in the Bundestag recognize the Holodomor in the United States.

[30143]

For rent, this is all for distracting people.
Indeed, in essence, WWII is a war of some Jews (sifards), to which Hitler belonged, forgiving others (Ashkenazi and Goyim) - all the rest (Czech, Polish, Soviet).
And now in Ukraine, the most important UKRAINIANS are Jews who cannot forgive the Russians (Jews) that they were excommunicated from the feeding trough (USSR). But Kravchuk did not understand that the Dnepropetrovsk Jews (Khrushchev and Brezhnev) ruled the USSR, and they would not forgive the Ukrainians for such a collapse.
Therefore, they take revenge on both Ukrainians and Russians.

[Wolf]

Gododom was the genocide of the Russian people, but we must ask the Trotsky and his cartridges for what? ODEL BELARUSIAN PEOPLE TAKEN TO KAMCHATKA, EVEN EATING HAS BEEN !!! NEVER IN THE CHRONICLES THERE WAS NO OBJECTIVE REASON FOR HUNGER IN RUSSIA !!! MY DADDY MORE HUNGERED IN RUSSIA 47-48 YEARS THAN IN YUGOSLAVIA IN THE WAR OF 1941-1945 !!! ARTIST MADE GENOCIDE RUSSIAN PEOPLE WAS !!!

[Usher]

Quote: Wolf

Gododom was the genocide of the Russian people, but we must ask the Trotsky and his cartridges for what? ODEL BELARUSIAN PEOPLE TAKEN TO KAMCHATKA, EVEN EATING HAS BEEN !!! NEVER IN THE CHRONICLES THERE WAS NO OBJECTIVE REASON FOR HUNGER IN RUSSIA !!! MY DADDY MORE HUNGERED IN RUSSIA 47-48 YEARS THAN IN YUGOSLAVIA IN THE WAR OF 1941-1945 !!! ARTIST MADE GENOCIDE RUSSIAN PEOPLE WAS !!!

Judging by the avatrake, you have a problem with the language.

[UEPE]

This is Serb, if

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Usher

Judging by the avatrake, you have a problem with the language.

Same problem as yours with Serbian.

[Usher]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: Usher

Judging by the avatrake, you have a problem with the language.

Same problem as yours with Serbian.

And here is Serbian? We speak Russian here.

[GenNick]

Allow me to appeal to the German parliament, well, I really want to, the grandson of the Knight of St. George, the son of the Knight of the Order of Glory, to genocide a little.
-Listen here, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the 'great Kaiser', grandchildren and children of the creator of the 'traite Reich', and who gave you the right to consider anything at all ...
What is the use of organic matter in PMV called? Maybe we’ll call a lab experiment or all this CRIME? Sorry, you, because you paid repo and counterbure ... and are not guilty of anything
And what do we call the destruction of every fourth inhabitant of Belarus, and ... it's not you, it's the fascists ... Excuse me, but who, you? - you are the grandchildren and children of those fascists who burned and slaughtered everyone in my house. do not mind me, because. the skating rink of your `` good events '' hit my family far and wide ... Can I be wrong ??
Maybe not your fathers and grandfathers starved the inhabitants of the city of Leningrad? Well, yes, not yours, but your neighbor ....
So who gave you the right to discuss anything at all ... There is only one obligation left for you, when you see the sun setting in the East, say, thanks to RUSSIAN PEOPLE that you allowed us to live ...

[UEPE]

Comrade, I wrote well ..., I want to initiate a criminal case to deprive the rank of Admiral of October as an accomplice to the Trotsky regime and surrender the city of Seastopol and the entire Crimean peninsula to the enemy.
I, in short, at Myskhako, Novorossiysk, the pool began to dig .... my hands fell .... how quickly did our sailors die ...

[Rakovor]

Well, of course, if you were in the place of Admiral Oktyabrsky, Sevastopol would definitely have defended it.)

[UEPE]

Unlike some, I know the story, and in the quarries in Kerch I was on Sapun Mountain, so there’s nothing to listen to, and your comment is verbiage. Although Caesar Kunnikov was a Jew - he is a worthy Jew! dot.

[Rakovor]

The fact that you were in the quarries and on Sapun Mountain does not mean anything, there were many who were there.)) And what does Caesar Kunikov (with one N) have to do with it? The question was, how could Oktyabrsky defend the Crimea and Sevastopol by the Black Sea Fleet? Tell me about it, "history expert".))

[tihonmarine]

Quote: GenNick

Maybe not your fathers and grandfathers starved the inhabitants of the city of Leningrad? Well, yes, not yours, but your neighbor ..

The Bundestag should sit and be silent "in a rag". Nobody, except the Germans, has brought so many atrocities to our people during the entire existence of Russia.

[Pavel57]

Some comrades have to continue the line of pouring mud on Russia in any of its manifestations.

[gurzuf]

"The German parliament will soon consider the possibility of adopting a resolution on the Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-1933." If this happens, the Duma will need to adopt a resolution stating that Germany did not quite sincerely repent for fascism.

[Tank jacket]

It is time to recognize the genocide of the multinational Russian people during WWII. The Nazis killed 20 million civilians of the USSR. 6 million. Jews recognized, and 20 million. Mirnyak in the USSR when they recognize ??? Compensation ???

[The Siberian barber]

The count, at the grave, must be put to those who came up with the name itself (with a semantic load), together!
We will see how the Germans behave regarding this issue.

[Usher]

Stefan Plaggenborg well done, sensibly reasoning. dill run with his goldmore. tired of it.

[Lamata]

Mavo's grandfather in the Saratov region at that time 7 people died. And now, where to go?

[UEPE]

lying, a bastard ... in Saratov, a provocateur .... I’ll shoot

[Dur_mod]

To remain silent and to believe that it was England's fault, Panimaesh did not want to sell machines for gold, but only for grain!

[Lord of the Sith]

Sumerians zadolbali with their hohlomordorom.

Many people around the world died of starvation in those days, regardless of nation, color and religion.
And they expose themselves to the whole world with patience.
Ugh, already disgusting.

[Lamata]

And the main thing is genocide by whom? In the Volga region, hunger was also died, and in northern Kazakhstan there was hunger. Who is to blame, Russia? Stalin? So Stalin is Georgians, and here is Georgia’s claim. Ukrainians as Jews with their Holocaust.

[Incvizitor]

And how to consider the events from the age of 14, when from 37 million the number fell sharply to 26 with the support of the EU and specifically Germany. Is this not real genocide? Even during the Second World War there were no such losses.

[ximkim]

The Holodomor is an event that is not tied to Ukraine ... Was there a famine? Yes! hunger was everywhere in a certain period. Politicians are building, gaining points at the event.

[Dur_mod]

Who has been punished for hunger in Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan? Does everyone pretend that their story has already condemned?

[ximkim]

There is no punishment. There are only big sacrifices.

[Rakovor]

And who exactly do you propose to punish and most importantly - how?

[Dur_mod]

How, I don’t know, to condemn by all authorities of the former republics - the actions of Stalin and lower-level leaders starting with the district committees, everything is written down - who, how much, what he ordered, in Ukraine there is a memory book, in every village and city how many people died of starvation, it was an animal horror that was transmitted to both grandchildren and great-grandchildren, after this famine, all those who survived went to collective farms, all the people broke down and didn’t resist anymore, do we plant corn in Siberia? about collective farms, even during Soviet times, much has been written about it, but no one has repented.

[Rakovor]

In Europe, more people died from the Spanish flu epidemic than yours from hunger, but generations of Europeans do not experience any "animal horror". And only you have "animal horror" transmitted to grandchildren and great-grandchildren, probably because you yourself are "animals". And yes, you'd better start a "memory book" on modern Ukraine, how many people lived in 91 and how many now, and in detail, for each town, who, when and where dumped from yours from the unfinished one.))

[Incvizitor]

in Ukraine there is a memory book, in each village and city it is recorded how many people died of starvation

We would write for one of the local Ukrainians who took grain from residents.

[Dur_mod]

So this is not a secret, I’m sure of the archives you can raise data, while the Ukrainians themselves in leading places forced people to give grain - I wrote about it, as well as about how to curry favor and take a higher post, as I was the head of the district committee, but became the head of the regional committee that shaw the same people Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians from hunger in the villages die they did not care! And the Ukrainians, who were soldiers and NKVD mi, but they carried out the order to seize ALL grain, but they will also be damned. Who is to blame for this? What was the system? Fascists were in power or maybe the Communists? Yes, the war then deducted everything, the great Stalin rebuilt the country, we went into space, everything was forgotten, but it all started with grain that was seized without measure, for the sake of machines that England did not want to sell for gold, but only for grain. And millions of people died in Ukraine, the Volga region, the Kuban, in other places, why do we remember the victims of the Second World War, but forgot about these millions? What are the costs of industrialization? Spit on them, but the country survived?

[ximkim]

Hello .. For this, there is a court that brings everything: a verdict, punishment. But history, this is the main court .. The change of government and state system leads to such moments. In the history of Russia, everything goes through destruction. The very essence of the article is that the rulers come to the table with a golden cup and spoon. They did not spare anything to create the USSR.

[UEPE]

I agree, but remember how to smoke was not in the first 91, the bulls in in liter jars were sold on the market ....

[Kapkan]

Ukrainians are crazy. They don’t know history, they don’t own info. In the history books, maps from Skyrim ... Soon there will be maps from the game of thrones ...
My grandparents were starving in the Kurgan region during these years, and my relatives were starving in Northern Kazakhstan and in the Orenburg region. So, no matter who decides there, but the truth is she alone, everyone should be put on the outskirts, and everyone would try to survive as best they could.

[Dur_mod]

Starvation, strife, one thing when crop failure, weather conditions are critical, force majeure in a word. And the other is when hunger is caused by the criminal actions of the authorities, regardless of their professional qualities and intentions.

[Rusticolus]

And apparently compensation will be required from the drought of the 32nd year? Or is the current Russia to blame for that drought? From zhezh what are the ubiquitous Petrov with Bashirov.

[30143]

Quote: Usher

Quote: Wolf

Gododom was the genocide of the Russian people, but we must ask the Trotsky and his cartridges for what? ODEL BELARUSIAN PEOPLE TAKEN TO KAMCHATKA, EVEN EATING HAS BEEN !!! NEVER IN THE CHRONICLES THERE WAS NO OBJECTIVE REASON FOR HUNGER IN RUSSIA !!! MY DADDY MORE HUNGERED IN RUSSIA 47-48 YEARS THAN IN YUGOSLAVIA IN THE WAR OF 1941-1945 !!! ARTIST MADE GENOCIDE RUSSIAN PEOPLE WAS !!!

Judging by the avatrake, you have a problem with the language.

It seems that our forum serves to unite like-minded people and to find a common language with the opposite side.
You do such repulsive statements repel people from communication.
If you understand the language, then some "non-Russians" are more correct in their explanation than "true Russians". I haven't touched on the writing style yet.

[UEPE]

I agree with you, here they read not only Russians, but also by SPIRIT - Russians

[BAI]

then this decision will in no way affect anything.

This decision will be bargained. Hans out of the blue will make a gesheft out of nothing.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Impartial statistics say that 1932 thousand people became victims of HUNGER in Ukraine in 1933-933 (together with 1 million 977 thousand who died from natural causes). Although the then president Yushchenko chatted about 18 million dead (this is with the entire population of Ukraine at that time 31 million!). The results of a recent "census" conducted by the Zelenskiy government put the current population of Ukraine at 37 million. The figure is clearly overstated, objective experts say that the current population of Ukraine is no more than 30 million.In 1992, the population of Ukraine was 52 million. Losses of the population of Ukraine since 1992 - 15 (22) million people. WHAT actually is famine and genocide of the Ukrainian population? Especially recently, VERY many people are dying around!

[cniza]

In addition, the researchers failed to find a single document that would prove that Stalin and the party leadership demanded the destruction of the Ukrainian nation.

How can I find something that is not ...

[Dur_mod]

So they were simpletons, they took and wrote with their own hands saying that we directly order the destruction of the Ukrainian nation, because they do not fulfill our requirements? And the fact that they set impossibly grain-harvesting plans? And the fact that the local party nomenclature at times exceeded the plans that were launched from above in order to curry favor and climb to the very top? Well, yes, England is to blame, it’s better to let a few million sole-proprietors die right now, but we’ll buy machines and win the war, then tens of millions will be saved, right?

[cniza]

You understand what the whole problem is, how to look at this issue, because people died not only in Ukraine, they died where there were such "snatchers" in power, so who is to blame? This was the case in the United States and other countries ...

[pexotinec]

Then we need to recognize the genocide of the indigenous population of America by European aggressors.

[lvov_aleksey]

I do not see experts here. On this I’ll tell my story: I’m from the Volga, if anyone says that it’s rich here, when I killed the Holodomor in Uraine !!!!!!!!!!!! I know from their ancestors how they were starving. I am Chuvash, but I am not a racist. Therefore, I do not understand their presentation, the Ukrainian is not of such nationality until 1917 !!!!!

[alien]

Objectively about this complex issue says the academician of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, a foreign member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, doctor of historical sciences Petro Petrovich Tolochko:
“There really was a famine, it took several million lives of Ukrainians, but it was also in the Kuban, the Volga region, and northern Kazakhstan. All grain-growing regions suffered a catastrophe in the early 30s. destroyed Ukrainians, and spared Russians or Jews, or others. All the peoples who were part of the Soviet Union drank this bitter cup. And it seems to me that it is even sinful to somehow emphasize that we feel sorry for the Ukrainians, and it seems that we don’t feel sorry for others because they are not ours. "
https://www.rsuh.ru/news/detail.php?ID=259565

and the Russian Foreign Ministry:
"Historical documents show that the famine that struck vast areas of the country killed about seven million people, including more than 2,5 million in the Russian part. The famine of the 30s was massive and indiscriminate. It began with severe drought and crop failure, which were imposed by the government's extraordinary measures (extremely high quotas for harvesting grain, confiscation of food, a ban on trade in food). Their implementation with equal rigidity was ensured in all agricultural regions of the USSR. <...> Tragic mistakes, leading to famine, were recognized already in 1933. At the same time, the Soviet government organized large-scale food aid to the affected regions, including Central Asia. "
https://www.mid.ru/web/guest/general_assembly/-/asset_publisher/lrzZMhfoyRUj/content/id/3193903

[Dur_mod]

I am Ukrainian, I don’t even know where you live Chuvash and where is your land and therefore I do not care what you think there!

[Rakovor]

If you do not care what you graze here. Better go, maybe it will help.))

[UEPE]

Dear Alexey, I want to ask one clever question. The Volga flows into the Kama or the turnover?

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Dur_mod

I am Ukrainian, I don’t even know where you live Chuvash and where is your land and therefore I do not care what you think there!

as usual, I’ll hide my hut from people like you, I immediately said from the Volga, more than Denpr

[Dur_mod]

So remember the Chuvash Ukrainians were, are and will live on their land always before and after 1917.

[UEPE]

Dear Dur-mod (Roman) in Russian "parasite" live as long as you want, no one forces you to live, do not meddle with us, we barely raked the Urals and here again ... further "phyraza, Chernomyrdin"

[Dur_mod]

Dear UEPE in Ukrainian "uipan" you are the last person I will ask - how long and how can I live, paddle further.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Dur_mod

So remember the Chuvash Ukrainians were, are and will live on their land always before and after 1917.

so what hurt you, let's show the story to V.I. Lenin with regards to Ukraine?

[Dur_mod]

What year do you need to start or prove that the word "Ukrainian" is a reality "invented" in the Austro-Hungarian headquarters?
Is that enough? - The famous French engineer and writer Guillaume Boplan wrote a book "Description of Ukraine" (1650), translated into many languages? Or in Chuvashia only from 1917 teach literacy?))

[Incvizitor]

Description of Ukraine "(1650 g)

Is that where Poland is?

https://seosait.com/karta-evropy-s-drevnix-vremen-do-sovremennyx-dnej/
Where is this "country" there? Or was it just a piece of land called that?

[UEPE]

Dear, Dur-mod (Roman), "parasite" in Russian, no one humiliates your independence in digging the Black Sea, but I ask you not to be offended, but you are dung

[Dur_mod]

Dear UEPE in Ukrainian "uipan", I'm not worried, you are your worthlessness much stronger emphasizing yourself. Sho is called don't touch the dung, it itself stinks.

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: lvov_aleksey

Quote: Dur_mod

What year do you need to start or prove that the word "Ukrainian" is a reality "invented" in the Austro-Hungarian headquarters?

you don’t say anything normal about a Ukrainian, but it's useless about a Nazi - I hate
and read about wiki about Ukraine
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8B
there is no nationality Ukrainian until 1917, there is only the country of Ukraine.

BELIEVE! In the vast expanses of Russia, you will not find Russian in the afternoon with fire!
because in the blood of many other nations.
I’ll repeat if you still don’t understand, I’m Chuvash and live on the Volga, my grandfathers and great-grandfathers beat Petliura and Vlasov’s citizens, that in the Great Patriotic War.
sorry about Makhno forgot

[Dur_mod]

Well, what are you trying to prove to me? I myself know that I have both Jews and Poles and Russians in my family, but I feel and proud that I am Ukrainian and I don’t stick it out, like Russians who are trying hard for some reason to prove to me that I’m wrong - I don’t exist and only Grandfather Lenin came up with my nationality!

[UEPE]

Hope, tyk to talk with you, how to bang on the wall with your forehead, shout, did not guess

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Dur_mod

Well, what are you trying to prove to me? I myself know that I have both Jews and Poles and Russians in my family, but I feel and proud that I am Ukrainian and I don’t stick it out, like Russians who are trying hard for some reason to prove to me that I’m wrong - I don’t exist and only Grandfather Lenin came up with my nationality!

I did not understand what was happening now, why did you distract me from my affairs ?!
I know the country, but until 1917 I do not know such a nationality, sorry. It was Lenin V.I.
ps mind you, it never sounded that I am Russian, and you have already started to create ... it smacks of Nazism ("and I do not stick it out like Russians")

[UEPE]

Dear Alexey, this is how you work, and not be distracted by VO. You are being watched!
PS. Yes, I forgot, and prepare reports for me, please, by Monday to the rise of the FLAG.

[Voltsky]

what is the famine ?! I heard there was no fight in the south of the USSR up to Kazakhstan, it seemed, and my great-grandfather from Ukraine talked about hunger in those days, I just learned from him that if you are starving, you can’t eat a lot, but what does Ukraine have to do with it ?!
Glade strange guys however :)

[Zabvo]

They were taken and divided into all, life was for everyone, but for them they were starved to death. But they don’t remember what the country gave them for this, and why remember the good.

[Voltsky]

Quote: ZABVO

They were taken and divided into all, life was for everyone, but for them they were starved to death. But they don’t remember what the country gave them for this, and why remember the good.

thank you to another ward :)

[UEPE]

YY, just super

[Zabvo]

They can go very far with the Jews for a couple. I would like to hear about the Russian genocide, but it was not "everything for the people" ... The genocide of dill is like exterminating the Jews from Odessa.

[Zabvo]

Quote: Sentry73

Yes, your statements, comrades fascism smack! You need to be more human.

You will be "human" and will be buried. In this world, the right of the strong, and I almost forgot, yes, if in years you yourself know that it is not the one who is right who is right, but who has more rights (not my words).