On the investigation of the "Novaya Gazeta" on the Spanish real estate of the Metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church

A video appeared on Dmitry Puchkov’s YouTube channel, which the author, known under the pseudonym Goblin, decided to devote to conducting journalistic investigations. Puchkov’s sight included a typical “journalistic investigation” conducted by a publication such as Novaya Gazeta, a publication that had recently been disgraced by a report on “nuclear dirt” on the non-nuclear aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov.

In its next “investigation”, Novaya Gazeta decided to walk along the metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church, Illarion, who is responsible for external church relations.

Dmitry Puchkov:

So what did the brave and inquisitive journalists find in the metropolitan? And they found this: a penthouse of 250 square meters in Spain at a cost of 950 thousand euros. “A simple Russian metropolitan lives well,” Novaya Gazeta reports.

According to Puchkov, the "independent" publications are concerned about the question of where the monk got so much money.

The author of the video says that in the investigation of "Interlocutor" the penthouse is 250 sq. M. m. has already turned into an apartment of 93 sq.m. The price of the apartment is already 262 thousand euros. Moreover, it turned out that Hilarion did not become the owner of Spanish real estate.

More about this in detail:

Comments

[knn54]

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
‎

[AU Ivanov.]

Non-possession, chastity, obedience - three vows of Orthodox monasticism.

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

Not a folding saying, aerodrome. And harmful, and dirty, and deceitful ... And your grandmother and you live in a country that has a centuries-old name - HOLY RUSSIA. States come and go on its territory - Russia stands and will stand at least until the Second Coming. And individual human people live at its expense and entire stupid states that happen to function on its territory ... ,, Three whales, have been holding Russia for centuries - ORTHODOXY, SELF-POWER, PEOPLE. The great Suvorov said: ,, We are Russians, what a delight！ We are Russians, God is with us！ ,,. For centuries, Russian soldiers went on the attack, for the house of the Blessed Virgin Mary. You are a warrior！ You didn’t lose your humor over the Russian Tradition. In the Donbass I saw a “temple” - a caponier, and above, above its high part - an icon of the Mother of God. 400 meters from the enemy. The Cossacks kept the defense near Slavyanoserbsk. In order to discuss Russian priests, one must first become a Russian himself. Dostoevsky said: ,, Russian is not a composition of blood, it is attitude to Orthodoxy （not literally -E.V.） ,,. Of course, priests are different. So techies are different. There are sensible, mediocre, and there are, and no. Is not it?
For centuries, ordinary nonhumans, have been fighting against people. Sometimes people lose. Take a look around, look carefully ... Here is a pentagram on shoulder straps and on technology .. Why? Do we live in America? The Russian PEOPLE revered and revered an eight-pointed star. And the pentagram is rubbish, which is imposed on people by nonhumans along with k u r u r about r a m and - demons - ,, aliens ,,. For you, apparently, the devils are akin to that ,, animal ,, from thin. movie ,, Evenings on a Farm ... ,,. No, dear comrade！ Everything is much more serious and tougher. Look for a movie, Level Four Contact. And they kill, and kidnap, and take, for forced labor ,, ... Merry little. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fight evil spirits without Orthodoxy. How can you deal with such things in heaven without the help of Heaven? ,, Funny, sin is smoking, and try to quit ... These, guys, a notion, by the way. Censorship parody in the temple. ... A good father - what a good commander. Rarity. One must search, this is labor. ,, Without labor ... ,, - this is exactly an old Russian proverb. In the Sergius Lavra, quite a while ago, I saw young monks in army boots. Construction, as in the army. ..Working for work. And you level ... Gold and a famous object ... from the hole

[destiny20]

OH and I just slammed you past. for commenting on this nonsense ... even Nevzorov would disdain

[nekromonger]

holy Russia, who sanctified it?

[for]

Quote: evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru

, Russian is not a composition of blood, it is an attitude to Orthodoxy （not literally -E.

And before Orthodoxy, who lived here, the Americans?

[Alexfly]

Stop smoking this rubbish, dear! And yet, do not make a cult of the Faith! I have the honor ...

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: AlexFly

yet, do not make a cult of the Faith!

A cult is when, with sacrifices and hatred for another position - like in the 37th.

[smart ass]

And the soldiers of the Third Reich on the buckles had the inscription "God is with us" did they bring a lot of good?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

There were also crusaders, and inquisitors were nearby. But what does the Orthodox Church have to do with it? Everyone knows who God is.

[Roman070280]

Everyone understands that each has his own god only in his head .. And no more ..

[tomket]

Quote: Clever man

And the soldiers of the Third Reich on the buckles had the inscription "God is with us" did they bring a lot of good?

And there it was specified which god with them? Well there maybe Odin, Thor, or Krishna?

[Oleg123219307]

And I was not born in holy Russia, but in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ... A secular state that did something for people all the same. This is my homeland, which was sold and torn apart by shit-bucks, and on its remnants bureaucrats, oligarchs and priests of the nouveau riche are now cashing in on gold and stones. It’s a pity that it happened.

[chip]

Quote: oleg123219307

And I was not born in holy Russia, but in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Earth is the same, people are the same.

[Oleg123219307]

Nope. Half of the earth was scattered, 2 generations of people grew up with shit, and instead of the nation that reads itself, the center of world technological and industrial achievements, we have the Russian Orthodox Church, the Internet with blunt vidosiks, the Unified State Examination, and 10 entertainment complexes in place of the factories. It’s exactly the same ...

[chip]

Quote: oleg123219307

Half of the earth was given

And people from, say, a village near Murom thought that they had been living on their land for many generations. But it turns out - someone gave their land to someone.

Quote: oleg123219307

2 generations of people grew up with shit

Everything, the continuity of the people is broken? Can the history of the people be thrown away?

Quote: oleg123219307

instead of the most reading nation, the center of world technological and industrial achievements, we have the Russian Orthodox Church

And I, frankly, thought that computer games, social networks and YouTube are distracting students from reading. But it turns out - the Russian Orthodox Church. That's it! And here the bearded hooligans in robes!

Quote: oleg123219307

It’s exactly the same.

No, you’re right, all the khan’s - the centuries-old history of Russia has been interrupted, without communists Russia has never lived and will not be able to continue living. In communism (I would even say - in the so-called communism), the salt of the Russian Earth has been for centuries. And now - basta, karapuziki.

[ccsr]

Quote: Chip

Earth is the same, people are the same.

Do not lie, people are not the same, and have become no better than the Soviet, but much worse. And religion cannot do anything about it, and this is also a fact. Those. you blame the Communists for allegedly preventing religion from invading people's minds and helping them to become better, and when they gave you carte blanche for any of your religious activities, it turned out that no matter how much power with candles in the temples stood, people wouldn't on the contrary, there was embitterment in the hearts of people for social injustice and especially for the luxury of some clergymen, drunk driving expensive cars, and crippling unbelievers. And you are telling us about heaven in heaven - no, not everyone is so naive in this world ....

[Fan-fan]

Previously, only officials on the people profited, and now there are also priests. Recently I watched a video about the possessions of Gundyaev in the Gelendzhik area - the scale is amazing.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Previously, only officials on the people profited

When before then?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: ccsr

Don't lie

Do not be rude

Quote: ccsr

people are not the same, and have become no better than Soviet ones, but much worse

Let's take ourselves as an example again. We are already used to it. And how exactly did you "grow thin"? Began to be rude to strangers?

[ccsr]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Do not be rude

You do not like that you are caught in a lie? Well, do not lie, and they will not point you directly to this.

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Let's take an example again. We are already used to it.

You do not reflect the opinion of everyone - to begin with, get down with an armored car ...

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

And how exactly did you "grow thin"?

I did not oppose the will of the people in 1991 and did not take any action to overthrow the president’s drunk - in this respect I became worse than my ancestors who overthrew the disagreeable tsarist regime. Not only that, we were taught that a person should not appropriate surplus value, but I put up with the fact that I have to do this.

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Rude to strangers started?

Do not confuse rudeness with a direct answer about your cunning statements, which look at the usual lie.

[Nick Russ]

A secular state is a state in which all ideologies have an equal right to exist. But in the USSR there was only one worldview that was legal and not prosecuted, it was a communist one. That is, in other words, the USSR was not a secular state.

[ccsr]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Non-possession, chastity, obedience - three vows of Orthodox monasticism.

And the simple idea that such apartments are used for secret meetings of the same church attendants to solve some sensitive interfaith issues, when publicity is not needed by anyone, you probably will never come to mind. I’m not saying that this can be a safe house in general, which some people from unofficial groups bought, donated to the church, and at the same time use it sometimes in their interests.
So do not drive a wave and do not make yourself a righteous person suffering for our church. You shouldn’t pay attention to this at all, but some crooks wanted to promote at the expense of the church, and no more.

[ivanec]

For private meetings, yachts, and apartments for private conversations.

[ccsr]

Quote: ivanec

For private meetings of a yacht,

What makes you think that it is convenient to hold private meetings on yachts, especially for those who solve practical problems at an average level or higher?

Quote: ivanec

and apartments for unofficial holidays.

It is not necessary at all, although there may occasionally change guests coming for legal affairs. For example, some structures may have representative offices in the country, and their employees to represent temporary housing for the period of business trip - this is the usual practice of large companies.

[Fan-fan]

safe house,

Do not hold us by the nonsense, the priests, the spies, what secrets they have there. Secrecy always covered up unseemly matters.

[ccsr]

Quote: Fan-Fan

Do not hold us by the nonsense, the priests, the spies, what secrets they have there.

Well, for example, there may be doubts about some artifacts - so what, immediately bring up for discussion all believers? It may first be decided how best to conduct research and where to conduct it, in order to later announce a decision on the results of such a check.

Quote: Fan-Fan

Secrecy always covered up unseemly matters.

Bullshit is complete - for example, it may be necessary to solve the problem of returning some relics that turned out to be abroad after the revolution. The authorities may be opposed to such a return on the basis of their legislation, and with the help of the church, this issue can be resolved so that it is an acceptable solution.
Regarding secrecy - what do you propose to abandon it at all?

[Shuttle]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Non-possession, chastity, obedience - three vows of Orthodox monasticism.

2+2=4
Say something they wanted, dear? Look at the video - there is no penthouse. There is not even an apartment. Simply no. The newspaper again pumped everything out of the finger.

[smart ass]

Yeah, the gundyas don’t have yachts either.

[Shuttle]

Quote: Clever man

Yeah, the gundyas don’t have yachts either.

Here it is not necessary to escalate.
Let's get started with Hilarion. And then you are so all who are in a cassock are ready to slaughter only because they are in a cassock, and not for what they do.

[smart ass]

And what they do not work in one organization? It would be better to say when their stall selling candles and eternal life will pay taxes?

[Shuttle]

Quote: Clever man

And what they do not work in one organization? It would be better to say when their stall selling candles and eternal life will pay taxes?

You write as if to live in the same country with the Russian Orthodox Church is something nasty, bad. I just continued your logic.

[smart ass]

I am for freedom of religion, but without commercial activity, if you trade, pay tax.

[Shuttle]

Quote: Clever man

I am for freedom of religion, but without commercial activity, if you trade, pay tax.

Those. You can believe, but since you wish? To me, to some extent, the drum to the Russian Orthodox Church. I have completely different beliefs. But the fact is that the newspaper on Illarion has gone wrong.

[smart ass]

The newspaper is generally not worth a discussion.

[Tibidokh]

Quote: Clever man

if you trade, pay tax.

Everything would be fine ... only all taxes in retail are included in the price. The tax, ultimately, is not paid by commerce, but by the consumer. No entrepreneur will agree to reduce margins, and that will raise the price to the buyer.
So it is with church shops - believing corny will become more expensive.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Clever man

I am for freedom of religion

What makes you think that someone is interested in what you are for?

[Fan-fan]

Well, I wonder.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Clever man

you trade - pay tax

Tax exemption is a form of government support. I and the vast majority of citizens of the Russian Federation believe that the state should support our faith in at least this form.
Most decided - it means democratic.
Are you against democracy?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Tax exemption - a form of government support

Then they are in the 90s on the import of cigarettes and alcohol burned!

[chip]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Then they are in the 90s on the import of cigarettes and alcohol burned!

Who are they? Parishioners of the Orthodox Church and most of its priests?

[sniperino]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Are you against democracy?

Well yes, you are here Satanists tell militant atheists for democracy ...

[Fan-fan]

Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o: Most decided - it means democratically.
Are you against democracy?

Did you see any demagoguery? Or such a pearl:

the state must support our faith in at least this form.

And therefore, exempt priests from taxes for entrepreneurship. It turns out that they just hide behind faith to get rich.

[smart ass]

Trade silver gold candles with holy water !!!

[Shuttle]

Quote: Clever man

Trade silver gold candles with holy water !!!

Those. on the free market they sell products made for free sale, and not for consumption within themselves ?! Wise world! Why silver and gold in the Russian Orthodox Church?

[smart ass]

Go to any church and ask how much the cross

[Shuttle]

Quote: Clever man

Go to any church and ask how much the cross

This was not the first time I visited the Zadonsk monastery last summer. There, for example, many inhabitants are accepted without money. Provide table, clothing, shelter, education and protection. And workers are accepted, and just pilgrims. About the candles. Right there, in the "winter" church, as you enter, there is a table on your right hand with a wooden cash register on it. But not for money, but for candles. Candles are of various sizes. The cells have inscriptions that symbolize the costs of making candles. Yes, the candles are not falling from the sky. And next to it is a church circle. This is a jar with a gap in the lid. The lid is on a lock, a jar on a chain. All. This is where commerce ends. This is how the ROC MP behaves in its TS. lair - take whatever candle you want, donate as much as you wish. You can take a candle for free if there is no money, or you can just put the money down so that someone else can take it for free. How do you explain it?
And the priest from the Novocherkassk Cathedral just gave me a cross. So he took it out of his pocket, kissed it and gave it away. And when for nothing, believe it or not, he gave me a ride in his "Niva" in 2006 for nothing. I just stood at the bus stop and the bus was waiting. He just took as many people as he could. And also, you know, a minister of worship. And you say "how much is a cross."

[smart ass]

I can also give a lot of examples of the opposite. Almost all the churches in our city are turned into stalls, but there is a pleasant exception in the village nearby, the church has wood-burning heating and there is no gold. That's where I donated money.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Clever man

I can also give a lot of examples of the opposite

Compose. For you do not attend church and cannot know its condition

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Compose. For you do not attend church and cannot know its condition

And let's bet that almost every church has a price list for services? Ready to shoot the video as proof. I put a bottle of tequila on the con. Weak to accept a bet?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Ingvar 72

And let's bet that almost every church has a price list for services?

Does it bother you? The Communists are a system in which money is not needed and there are no prices - and they did not build it, although they possessed all the full power in the country. Now look for the culprits?
I also know that in most parishes the poor priest will fulfill for nothing. Moreover, the poor will be fed. This rule is. Priests, for example, fulfill their requirements for free to grannies in villages. And since in the villages there are often only grannies, such priests live only from the fact that they will grow them in the garden. To know such things, one must be in the Church.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

To know such things, one must be in the Church.

I happen, that's why I say it as it is.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Ingvar 72

I happen

What are you doing there?

[Roman070280]

Does it bother you?

But neither Mercedes nor Rolexes at the main "worshiper" bother you .. (bought with the money of those very fooled grannies, by the way)
Here it would be time to turn on your head, think, but be ashamed of who you are trying to protect ..
Even if there was a god, he would love such thieves-patriarchs last of all ..

[Fan-fan]

I think that the "dacha" near Gelendzhik was bought by the patriarch at the expense of the state, and he also bought security, transport and housing in the "house on the embankment" not with the donations of grandmothers.

[ccsr]

Quote: Fan-Fan

I think that the "dacha" near Gelendzhik was given to the patriarch at the expense of the state,

You can think, only better to present the facts. I think that the church has its own funds for the construction of such facilities. By the way, the country's budget is being discussed by the Duma, i.e. your chosen ones. So ask a question to your deputy on what article this construction has passed.

Quote: Fan-Fan

he, too, did not acquire donations from grannies.

Not only grannies donate - bandits also sometimes give considerable sums. By the way, I myself knew one fairly well-to-do woman who, during the times of the USSR, completely unsubscribed all her property to the church, and there was a lot of it in monetary terms.

[From Siberia we]

merged boy with a bet

[kyznets]

In Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, in the Cathedral of the Holy Life-Giving Trinity there is where to buy a candle - for those who want a larger candle. But there are small candles in the box, but take as much as you need and put as much money as you can. Some take free of charge, who can’t pay, and some just put money so that they can take it, but they already buy it in the shop. THERE IS A CHOICE. And buy and take like that. Those who do not go to the church discuss the topics of buying and selling in the Orthodox Church most of all, and they know about Orthodoxy from liberal and frankly yellow newspapers. Yes, and they tell us how to BELIEVE correctly, and how everything should be right.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: kyznets

But there are small candles in the box, but take as much as you need and put as much money as you can.

In Togliatti, I have never seen such boxes.

[Grandfather Crimea]

Where there are sponsors, there is more opportunity for the priesthood to build or expand, restore the church, make cheaper the treasure (baptism, burial service ..), hire singers to the choir with voices delivered, make candles cheaper, give an icon (for example, a birthday name), give gifts on December 19 or January 6-7 for children. Even help parishioners. But this is not everywhere. The farther from the city, the lower the income of the income.

[Grandfather Crimea]

A good monastery in Zadonsk, on vacation in 2006 went as a worker for a week.
The site has a lot of people who are not churches, who rarely attend church, so this is a dissonance. The church also has problems and difficulties. You cannot equate everyone indiscriminately. There are egregious moments, and there are amazing people, wonderful and more.

[ccsr]

Quote: Clever man

Go to any church and ask how much the cross

Why do you need it if you are not a believer?

[Roman070280]

And what good is it to live with people who are brazenly lying, and clog up other people's heads with all sorts of fables .. It seems that the dark centuries are long gone .. but the methods are the same ..

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Roman070280

blatantly lying

What are you even lying about?

[Roman070280]

Not for us, but for you ..
About devils and pans, about paradise and life in heaven, about humility, about the need to abandon luxury and comfort, but instead it is better to pray .. well, and about any such heresy ..

[ccsr]

Quote: Clever man

It would be better to say when their stall selling candles and eternal life will pay taxes?

Do you care what the believers who incidentally paid taxes to their state from their salaries will spend their money? Maybe you advise them to take your money in a casino or in a tavern for a walk, rather than spend on what they believe in?
It seems to me that you are a typical swindler like O. Bender, who dreams of robbing a big millionaire, but is jealous that he can’t rob the poor believers, because he ordered a way there.
You don’t really expose your true interests to the public - many have already understood them.

[smart ass]

You drive my friend

[ccsr]

Quote: Clever man

You drive my friend

I am following you, nostril to nostril ...

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

like O. Bender

Rather - like Panikovsky.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

Rather - like Panikovsky.

I agree - the character is clearly from that gop company.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

I don’t know what he has and what he doesn’t have, but I know that the overwhelming majority of priests have a hard and low-paid, if you will, "job." They make it to make it clearer - for an idea, and not out of self-interest. You are trying not to deal with someone specific, but to cast a shadow on a huge number of people. You naturally look ridiculous. It is like "Russianness" to accuse of lust for power and avarice, based on the examples of our oligarchs.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

I don’t know what he has, what he doesn’t have, but I know that the overwhelming majority of priests have a hard and low-paid, if you like, "job"

it’s hard not to do a damn day after day ...

[Grandfather Crimea]

According to the idea, the priest does not work, but serves God and people. Those who are far from church life can give out different liberties. Such a brow is not suitable for Orthodoxy, but Baptism is not necessary, and everything is as simple as my mother-in-law's pancakes, everyone dances and sings Allllilluyu))))))

[Fan-fan]

Here I will tell you a case, last year I was a tourist in St. Petersburg, I went to the St. Nicholas-Epiphany Naval Cathedral, at the entrance there was some kind of "kent" in a cassock, maybe a priest, or maybe a clerk, I don't understand. So he just looked at me (I obviously have a Ryazan physiognomy) and didn't say a word, but three Germans followed me, and this "Kent" began demanding money from 3 foreigners and quietly so that no one could hear. Shame and shame! I myself became disgusting and disgusting. I accidentally returned to see if my daughter was following me and involuntarily became a witness of this picture.

[bubalik]

And they found this: a penthouse of 250 square meters in Spain at a cost of 950 thousand euros. “A simple Russian metropolitan lives well”

,,, especially against the background of statements:

As the head of the department for external church relations, Metropolitan Hilarion, emphasized that the authorities should be closer to the people.

“This proximity should, first of all, be that their salaries should correspond to the average salaries of state employees. Then they will begin to understand how people live, and maybe they will begin to think about how to increase salaries, ”

- said the representative of the Russian Orthodox Church on the television channel "Russia 24"

[Cut Samshitov]

As the head of the department for external church relations, Metropolitan Hilarion, emphasized that the authorities should be closer to the people. Well, yes, yes ... The Patriarch has been riding a budget machine for a long time ... His watches are also budget ones ...

[Mestny]

Yes, you at least watch the video. There about something else. About the fact that Novaya Gazeta is lying.

[Flooding]

I didn’t watch the video.
Like the four commentators before me.
But can you read a few lines?

The author of the video says that in the investigation of "Interlocutor" the penthouse is 250 sq. M. m. has already turned into an apartment of 93 sq.m. The price of the apartment is already 262 thousand euros. Moreover, it turned out that Hilarion did not become the owner of Spanish real estate.

Or am I really overestimating the capabilities of the local public?

[bober1982]

The main thing is to crow, and then at least do not dawn, as Puchkov rightly remarked

[bubalik]

bober1982 (vladimir) Today, 18: 27

Clever parishioners Yes, I do not care what kind of relationship you have with your priests. Whether priests have real estate abroad or not, it doesn’t matter. You just don’t put it on public display, politicians have enough in this field. When Patriarch Kirill flew to Samara, would you have thrown money to him, eh? Dear parishioners?(In total, the events dedicated to the visit of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill to Samara cost 4 rubles. Money was allocated from the city budget) With what fright for all these events money is allocated from the city budget?
Loafers and balabol are your clerics.
And Metropolitan Hilarion the Cossack mishandled. Studied abroad, he has the Hungarian and Ukrainian awards and is not against the king:

that the monarchy is “that form of government that has positively established itself in history and which has many advantages over any elected forms of government

[Flooding]

Quote: bubalik

Wise guys are parishioners and I don’t care what kind of relationship you have with your priests.

Who are you talking to? At random? Perhaps where I get?
What is the relationship with the priests? Who?
Why did you write this here?
I see only emotions. Who offended you?
Resentment at some priest? So maybe it’s your relationship?

[bubalik]

,, and then what hooked you? Or takes my comment on my account? So I did not write to you.

[Flooding]

Quote: bubalik

,, and then what hooked you? Or takes my comment on my account? So I did not write to you.

He tried to figure out if I was a wise guy or a parishioner. And suddenly one and the other in one person.
But he did not master your message. Can you help?

[bober1982]

Quote: bubalik

It was worth 4 rubles

This is a small amount for the city budget, the main amount is the payment for installing LED screens on the territory of the St. Sophia Church, and on the promenade.
The annual budget of the Samara Wings is more than 1,5 billion rubles, but this is so, by the way.
Well, one cannot help but recall Judas, who advised to sell the precious world in order to bless the poor.
It turns out a good Epiphany evening, was it really impossible to wait until Monday.

[bubalik]

The annual budget of Samara Wings is more than 1,5 billion rubles

,,, it’s good that they reminded, it’s time to disperse these loafers in all cities.

[bober1982]

I sincerely congratulate you on the holiday!

[bubalik]

,,, and happy holiday! The weather really failed, not frost, not strong ice.

[Phil77]

How?!?! Well, maybe at least we leave the hockey players? Let's live in peace!

[bubalik]

hockey players leave

,,, on the salary of the librarian, until they play

[Phil77]

Eh, no, Sergei! These guys work out from and to. You can't walk on ice on foot. And they don’t break stools on bureaucratic heads, though? No, no! This is another story.

[for]

He probably meant football. My opinion is to leave football at the amateur level, the emphasis is on hockey.

[Phil77]

Yeah, the moment was * well * picked up. Why?

[balunn]

If our church (any) is separated from the state, then the allocation of money from the budget for non-targeted expenses is obtained. And it doesn’t matter whether it is a lot or a little. The church must live on its own money.

[bober1982]

Quote: balunn

then the allocation of money from the budget for non-targeted expenses is obtained

Not quite so, the construction of the St. Sophia Church was under the control of local authorities, they have the right to provide material assistance.

[balunn]

Of course they have the right. Voluntary deductions from their salaries, for example, fundraising from the City Hall ..... Out of budget, so to speak ... But it turns out that there is no money in the budget for resettlement of the decrepit fund (as an example), but there is money for the church.

[bober1982]

Quote: balunn

Voluntary deductions from their salaries, for example

Let it be for you to compose.
St. Sophia Church became a decoration of the city, and the authorities themselves are interested in the construction of churches, the Patriarch visited the city as an official, and this was a significant event for everyone.

[Fan-fan]

When did he become an official government official? Or is the Russian Orthodox Church already a government department, and the patriarch has the post of minister?
He came to the city, even if he is met by local priests, and what does the government have to do with it?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: balunn

the church (any) is separated from the state

The Orthodox Church, being one of the pillars of Russia, cannot be physically separated from the state. All these statements are empty paperwork, with the same success in the constitution it was possible to register children's dislike for ice cream.

[Fan-fan]

The church is not a pillar of Russia, but a pillar of power and its main role is to keep the people in humility and obedience.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: bober1982

This is a small amount for the city budget, the main amount

Kids sometimes need less surgery ....

[chip]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Kids sometimes need less surgery

The Russian Orthodox Church has clinics that the Church sponsors and which treat people for free. The Communist Party-no such.
And how many operations could children do for billions of "communist" Grudinin? Are you there, in the "Communist Party", are you planning to dispossess the oligarch and transfer the kids to operations? No? Then your claims are extremely hypocritical.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Chip

And how many operations could children do for billions of "communist" Grudinin?

He doesn’t buy yachts with personal money, but builds schools with kindergartens. And unlike Cyril, he lives in the same house with his hard workers.
And there is no need to dodge the topic - it’s not about church money, but budget money.

[chip]

Quote: Ingvar 72

He doesn’t buy yachts with his personal money, but builds schools with kindergartens

I was already crying.
The photo below is one of those "schools":

Or is it some kind of palace of pioneers, judging by the abundance of flags?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Chip

I was already crying.

Before you post something, you need to at least check it. The owner of VEGAS on Kashirskoye Shosse is the CROCUS GROUP Corporation. Sole shareholder of the group - Its founder, Azerbaijani businessman Agalarov Araz.
The fact that the state farm sold part of the land for the mall - so I already wrote to you that the profit is not for yachts.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Ingvar 72

profit goes not to yachts

Grudinin himself doesn’t even know where his profits are going, and you, probably, know? Remember how he went to register as a presidential candidate, forgetting about foreign accounts. You would remind him, since you know everything about his fin flows, otherwise there was embarrassment throughout the country.
And please tell me right away. How did the wife of the sternum seize several billion from him, if he spent all the money, a golden man, on schools? Or these billions in schools?))) Now the evil wife of schoolchildren will expel and reorient schools to brothels. Yes?

[Fan-fan]

While you look like a hypocrite. Compare the money of Grudinin with the money of the oligarchs, yes he is a beggar in comparison with them, and if you look at the video on the Internet about the state farm of Grudinin on the Internet, then you will not carry such nonsense anymore.

[chip]

Quote: Fan-Fan

you look like a hypocrite

Quote: Fan-Fan

Compare the money of Grudinin with the money of the oligarchs, yes he is a beggar

Poor, poor Grudinin! But how could I suspect an almost impoverished oligarch in covetousness and avarice?

Quote: Fan-Fan

if you watch a video on the Internet about the state farm Grudinin, then you will no longer carry such nonsense

Is this some kind of hypnotizing video with a 25th frame or something? Is it you who have seen enough and now behave like a zombie?

The funny thing is that today you are not hiding what kind of "communists" you are. And what would happen if a piece of power broke off for you - it's scary to think.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Kids sometimes need less surgery ....

The maintenance of your temple with a corpse inside under the walls of the ancient Kremlin costs tens of millions of rubles. How many operations would it be fashionable for "kids" to do, eh? Let's bury the corpse at last?
And the Orthodox Church is the center of mercy, there they help the poor, and heal the soul of people. No how without it.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

The contents of your temple with a corpse inside under the walls of the ancient Kremlin

I don’t care about this corpse as you put it. I am not a fan of Lenin, I am a fan of Stalin. It's just that his relics embody the whole era that they are now trying to ruin. Speaking of relics - how do the relics of saints differ from the relics of Lenin? He is also a saint for a huge number of people. Although during his life he did not work sickly. As well as some of your saints. The meaning is the same, and the same parts of the corpse.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Let’s finally bury the corpse?

First you bury the holy relics in the Kiev Lavra and in other places - give an example to unbelievers, then we’ll talk about what to do with the Mausoleum.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Kids sometimes need less surgery ....

After all, I reminded about Judah, about the precious world ..... he also thought about the kids, including.
Goblin is right, about crowing, the anti-Russian newspaper launches dirt, and then the usual theme turns to a different topic. It is done.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: bubalik

I do not care

Then why are you here?

Quote: bubalik

Clever parishioners

The clever guy tries to write his "smart" comments without reading the article. That's it - smart guy

[Mestny]

Quote: bubalik

In total, the events dedicated to the visit of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill to Samara cost 4 rubles. Money allocated from the city budget) With what fright for all these events, money is allocated from the city budget?

Where does the information come from? From Novaya Gazeta?

[sniperino]

Quote: bubalik

Yes, I do not care what kind of relationship you have with your priests. Have priests real estate abroad or not, no difference.

Do you always read articles and write a lot yourself, argue about the fact that you “don't care”, or only when it comes to Orthodoxy, you go almost to the point of shaking?

[Aerodrome]

Quote: bubalik

When Patriarch Kirill flew to Samara, would you have thrown money to him, eh? Dear parishioners?

they will not ... clamp ... scrapbook-scraping, but Caesar’s caesarean.

[Phil77]

And I looked. And the conclusion is the same as Puchkov’s-made article. Well, what to expect from * Novaya Gazeta *? Conclusion: if you are looking for incriminating evidence, then you need to approach the issue more carefully.

[Ge⁣⁣o]

Quote: Flood

Or am I really overestimating the capabilities of the local public?

+1 inadequate just rushing.
This, by the way, is the hallmark of an aggressive theologian - do not think, but act.

[rocket757]

Man has faith, it is reasonable, right ...
Ministers of worship ..... probably there will be a judge on them.

[Ge⁣⁣o]

Quote: rocket757

there is a judge

On the "unrighteous judges", hurrying to accuse without understanding - there will certainly be

[rocket757]

The blogosphere, all kinds of media, it does not appeal to judges.
Hoping that there will be another court on them is a great optimist. The official church, part of the governing SYSTEM .... in my opinion, GOD has not been in that church for a long time .... the topic is not mine, so it's just a side view, nothing more.

[Ge⁣⁣o]

Quote: rocket757

view from the outside

Who needs it, your "outside view"? Demagoguery of a complete delitant - what could be more senseless?

[rocket757]

Well, yes, demagogy from ... ministers of a cult of meaning carries more.
Do not arrange a bazaar squabble, as in the unforgettable "Golden Calf" .... the successors of the work of Ostap Bender, always ... the clergy will "leave fools".
The necessary motto "I pray to my gods, I do not blaspheme against strangers!"
It’s worth stopping at.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: rocket757

Well, yes, demagogy from ... ministers of a cult of meaning carries more

How do you know?

Quote: rocket757

Do not arrange a bazaar squabble

The bazaar squabble here was made by you: "I can't figure it out, but I consider it necessary to state ...". I just pointed out to you your ridiculous behavior.

Quote: rocket757

It’s worth stopping at.

It’s worth not stopping, not starting. For the future.

Quote: rocket757

I pray to my gods, I do not blaspheme against strangers!

A banal tale, besides - you do not adhere to it. Hula in your x messages was plenty.

[Flooding]

Quote: rocket757

in my opinion, GOD has not been in that church for a long time

How to determine this? And in what church, in your opinion, is it still there?

[rocket757]

Quote: Flood

Quote: rocket757

in my opinion, GOD has not been in that church for a long time

How to determine this? And in what church, in your opinion, is it still there?

Not my topic, not my sphere of interests, I have refrained from arguing for a long time, precisely on the basis of the principle written earlier.
My position - All that brings relief, calming, FAITH, hope to people, HAS THE RIGHT TO BE !!!
EVERYTHING, no more debate on the topic.
PS .... my personal opinion, attitude to the church, does not matter and is limited to the personal circle of friends.

[Flooding]

Quote: rocket757

My position - All that brings relief, calming, FAITH, hope to people, HAS THE RIGHT TO BE !!!
EVERYTHING, no more debate on the topic.

Worthy of respect. Taking off my hat.
Although this comment is somewhat contrary to the previous one.

[rocket757]

Life, a good school.
Let everyone pass it with dignity.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: rocket757

Life, good school

Full of fools who lived their lives for nothing. It would not be sad to realize this.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: rocket757

Not my topic, not my area

It is better to say it before you are going to blurt out something not on your topic, not from your sphere.

Quote: rocket757

no more debate

It is very strange that you cannot stop.

[sniperino]

Quote: rocket757

Not my topic, not my sphere of interests, I have refrained from arguing for a long time,

And here argue, obviously not of their own free will ...

[The popuas]

Yes, even a 90sq.m apartment ... 260 thousand euros ... what an abode for such a monastery! I think there are no walls there are stock

[Mikhail m]

18 million in rubles. Comparable to Moscow. But why did she need him there? Are you short of business?

[The popuas]

Apparently rest from worldly vanity

[Phil77]

Citizen Alfeev purchased this apartment for his mother Valeria Alfeeva, who grew him alone.

[Phil77]

Dear * minus *, can you explain what you disagree with? With the fact that the Metropolitan is also a citizen of Russia? Or with the information that he bought the apartment for his mother?

[Romka]

Yes, that changes a lot. I would say many people should learn how to thank their parents. But how can she live there among Catholics of other religions? Why not in the Crimea?

[Phil77]

Yes, it doesn’t change anything! Well, he has the opportunity — he bought it. He’s not a poor man, I agree. But his poverty is quite logical — fees and everything. He is the author of more than 100 books on theology, he lectured at the cordon. Do you think the fees are small? I’ve never been his lawyer, but I’ll say what I started with. Soldatov / author of the article / needs to be more carefully prepared for the presentation of the material. All. With respect, I.

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

But how can she live there among Catholics of other religions? Why not in the Crimea?

Catholics are actually not Gentiles, but Christians, we just have different branches. But Muslims live in Crimea and have many mosques. I have nothing against choosing a place of residence in the Crimea, but your proposal is illogical, since you raised the question of the Gentiles.
In general, this whole issue is exaggerated for a specific purpose, and personally, as an unbeliever, I am absolutely indifferent to what the church ministers will buy, because there is a flock, and let it deal with its own guides. What attitude the journalists from the newspaper have towards this is not clear to me, but the babaki they cut from such fake "sensations", and this is obvious.

[Romka]

Thank you, clarified, otherwise I think why all the prominent figures of Russia are drawn to these Catholics in Spain and Italy - so to speak, Christian solidarity! And what is interesting is that atheists are all the same! They say there one representative of the Jewish branch even bought two villas on the lake. One thing I think, mom.

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

so to speak, Christian solidarity!

Strange, but didn’t you know that the contacts of the Orthodox and Catholic churches are at a higher level than contacts with other faiths, including other branches of Christianity.

Quote: Romka

And what is interesting is that atheists are all the same!

Atheists are not interested in this at all, but any of them cannot ignore the influence of religion on the modern world.

Quote: Romka

They say there one representative of the Jewish branch even bought two villas on the lake.

I do not know what you mean, but I personally do not care how the nouveau riche spend money. I believe that it is necessary to change the system itself and return to the people what belonged to it before the collapse of the USSR. I am not interested in particular cases of manifestation of the vile essence of the comprador bourgeoisie - this is their essence, it is strange that you expect something else from them.

[Romka]

"FROMTranno, did you not know that the contacts between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are at a higher level. "
Yeah, and contacting is best on a yacht)))
And no matter how patriotic it is, so is Europe's hut. So after all, it is possible and what corrupting Anglo-Sax infection to bring to their native harbor. And they’re not afraid, after all. Well, the state probably gives them medals for this risk. I am proud of the sons of the fatherland!

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

Yeah, and contacting is best on a yacht)))

What do you care if you are not a believer? Do you want to impose on them the Soviet "image of morality"?

Quote: Romka

And no matter how patriotic it is, so is Europe's hut.

I consider myself a patriot, and I do not have a hut in Europe, so not all those you know are patriots. However, you hardly know them at all.

Quote: Romka

I am proud of the sons of the fatherland!

Nobody forbids you to do this. What is the essence of your protest?

[Romka]

I will quote: "
Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and undoubted meaning is nothing but a tool for rulers, as an instrument for achieving power-hungry and selfish goals, and for those who are governed - renunciation of human dignity, reason, conscience and slavish submission to those in power. So he is preached everywhere where patriotism is preached.
Patriotism is slavery. "
Leo Tolstoy, the great Russian writer and thinker
And who will you be from?

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

Leo Tolstoy, the great Russian writer and thinker

This is the opinion of an outstanding person, which can be refuted by the words of another no less great personality:

The historical significance of every Russian great man is measured by his merits to his homeland, his human dignity - by the power of his patriotism.

Nikolai Gavrilovich Chernyshevsky

So give up your ability to select quotes from the network for others - it’s better to learn how to communicate yourself, so that it is interesting to listen to you.

Quote: Romka

And who will you be from?

From Russian patriots.

[Romka]

Your words:
"but I personally don't care how the nouveau riche spend their money." So what kind of patriot are you? The country is being robbed! And this does not concern you, but all the same: I am a PATRIOT!

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

So what kind of patriot are you? The country is robbed!

But our people themselves decided that they needed to live under capitalism so that they would rob it, and I did not oppose the choice of the majority in 1991. Or do you refute the will of the majority?

Quote: Romka

But this does not concern you, but still: I am a PATRIOT!

This concerns me, that’s why I want our people to cast their votes to the left parties in order to end this disgrace.

Quote: Romka

"but I personally don't care how the nouveau riche spend their money."

If they spend their money on their own, then there is not a single law prohibiting them from doing this. Or do you propose to violate the law, which operate in our country by the will of the majority?

[Romka]

There is a law! But in this country: to friends - everything, to the rest - the law.

[ccsr]

Quote: Romka

There is a law! But in this country: to friends - everything, to the rest - the law.

That's exactly what you think that "in this country", and the patriots think "in my country." This is how we differ even at the subconscious level.

[Romka]

Oh yes! Sorry, I didn’t introduce myself: I am a resident of Belarus, a believer, cosmopolitan (human vices do not have state affiliation).

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: ccsr

And our people themselves decided that they needed to live under capitalism

Lies! Most were for preserving the Union!

[sniperino]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Lies! Most were for preserving the Union!

The majority were against the oligarchic government, which, calling itself "Soviet", led to the collapse of the USSR and accused one person of this, as if we lived under an absolute dictatorship. It was not they who invented the idea of ​​using the first person as a scapegoat in a pseudo-democratic country, but the Americans.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

The majority were against the oligarchic government, which, calling itself "Soviet", led to the collapse of the USSR

What the hell was the "oligarchic power" in the USSR, if our general secretaries owned property that was many times less than what is now owned by a middle-ranking official or some deputy of the Legislative Assembly? Yes, our party leaders of the Brezhnev era were poor even then, in comparison with some cultural and art workers, or guild workers, so you shouldn't exaggerate their wealth, but just look at what their descendants have, and compare with what Yeltsin's sons-in-law have.

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

What the hell was "oligarchic power" in the USSR, if our general secretaries owned property that was many times less than it now owns ...

Oligarchic power is the power of the few, while Soviet power is the power of the people. Can you catch the difference? Leave your curses and treasure searches to yourself, they are not relevant to the question. Or is it stuck together: "a few are necessarily rich"? Although, the members of the Politburo did not live in poverty, I must say.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

Oligarchic power is the power of the few, and Soviet power is the power of the people. Do you catch the difference?

What then is your statement:

The majority were against the oligarchic government, which, calling itself "Soviet",

Or did you just write it for a red word?

Quote: sniperino

And leave your wanderings and searches of treasures with you, they do not concern a question.

They relate directly - just the most people are outraged that public property was privatized by a handful of oligarchs who do not have any right to it.

Quote: sniperino

Although the members of the Politburo were not in poverty, I must say.

Against the background of what? Do you even know the salary of the secretary general to talk about the fact that they did not live in poverty?

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

What then does your statement refer to: The majority was against the oligarchic government, which, calling itself "Soviet"

Moreover, from the second half of the existence of the USSR there was no Soviet power. The Soviets in the USSR had a purely decorative function in making decisions. All strategic decisions for the country in the 70s were taken at the Politburo. Remember, I hope, the Soviet iconostasis?

There are not many of them. These are the Soviet oligarchs, whose political decisions were passed through the party bureaus of the republics, regional committees, city committees, etc., all the deputies went to congresses with their brains washed out by the general party line, always voting for. The lower levels were ruled by local oligarchs or princelings (bai), repeating the same cartoon with advice. "Bayysk socialism" was called, and the councils were just a screen, so that the extremists would not be looked for, but appointed.

[sniperino]

PS

Quote: sniperino

"Baisky socialism"

A dictator / monarch needs a good state council and specialists, because he says "the state is me", and the boyars are on their own, they usually have private interests. Under the dictator Stalin, the Council of People's Commissars worked more efficiently, but under the "boyars" of different caliber, they did not. Neither in the seven-boyars, nor in the twenty-seven-boyars.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

Remember, I hope, the Soviet iconostasis?

Yes, they were all beggars like church mice, compared with the current rulers, and at the same time the country was the second in the world in economics. No need to speculate on people of that era - they may have been divorced from some everyday problems, but honestly worked all over the country, and for this we should pray for them, they gave us at least to live happily, without all that bl .... what's going on around us now.

Quote: sniperino

This is the Soviet oligarchs,

"For the sake of a good word, I will not regret my father" - you seem to be one of those ...

Quote: sniperino

"Bayysk socialism" was called, and the councils were just a screen, so that the extremists would not be looked for, but appointed.

I had a neighbor, a worker from the Moskabel plant, was twice elected a deputy of the Perovsky district from the collective, a normal and honest person, and I believed him more than our entire State Duma. So there is no need to tell me about the "soviets" - the best were elected there by the people, and not by the relatives and mistresses of those in power who are included in the lists of our parties.

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

most of all, people are outraged that public property was privatized by a handful of oligarchs who do not have any right to it ... Do you even know the secretary general’s salary to say that they didn’t live in poverty?

Understand the term "oligarchy". What does property and salary have to do with it?

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

Understand the term "oligarchy".

You need to understand the essence of the term "oligarchy", and how it is interpreted by academic dictionaries:

Oligarchy (Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarchia) - “power of the few”, from other Greek. Ὀλίγος (oligos) - “few” and other Greek ἀρχή (arche) - “power”) - a political regime in which power concentrated in the hands of a relatively small group of citizens (for example, representatives of large monopolized capital [1]) and, sometimes, serves their personal and / or group interests, and not the interests of all citizens.

Now tell us how the Soviet leadership worked in their personal interests, and not in the interests of the whole people - we will see how you turn out. By the way, the children of those leaders whose poster you brought up have never occupied leading roles in the state. Who is the Minister of Agriculture now, do not tell me? Or how did the son-in-law of one official from the director of the store become the Minister of Defense - was that really in Soviet times?

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

Now tell us how the Soviet leadership worked in their personal interests, and not in the interests of the whole people

And this is possible, but why break away from the main question: you admit that the power of the soviets is democratic power, i.e. involving in decision-making processes the widest possible part of the population, and the power of the Politburo is oligarchic power, regardless of whether they served their own or the people's interests? This is the essence, and then you can discuss in whose interests they made decisions at the Politburo. Starting with the organization of the KGB as an organ of the Politburo, significantly curtailing the rights that the NKVD and the MGB possessed: is it in the interests of the oligarchs or the people? You can prepare a list of decisions taken "at the numerous requests of the workers," but answer the question: oligarchy?

[sniperino]

PS

Quote: sniperino

oligarchy?

This is despite the fact that your definition of oligarchy allows them to act both in the interests of the people sometimes (they forgot to highlight the word) "in their own interests, and not in the interests of the entire people." And about income, you want to give out one of the examples for an attribute of the oligarchy? It won't work.

for example, representatives of large monopolized capital

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

And this is possible, but why break away from the main question: you acknowledge that the power of the Soviets is a democratic power, i.e. involving the widest possible part of the population in decision-making processes, and the power of the Politburo is oligarchic power, regardless of whether they served their own or popular interests?

I admit that your verbiage is just an attempt to denigrate the figures of the past. And this can be seen from the fact that you deftly jumped off the definition of "oligarchy", excluding from it the cornerstone definition "serves their personal and / or group interests, not the interests of all citizens."

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

the cornerstone definition "serves their personal and / or group interests, not the interests of all citizens."

It is written "GETTING STARTED". Learn to read, whitewash! And then they mastered copy-paste, but they did not read and understand the definition.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

And then they mastered copy-paste, but to read and understand the definition is not.

You would be better off not dodging the essence of the issue, but clearly showing how the Soviet "oligarchs" left their fortunes as heirs, or pushed them into power so that the picture was objective. And so your verbiage is just an attempt to prove the unprovable, and this is clearly visible not only in the financial situation of the Soviet leaders, but also in their origin. So where did the "oligarchy" come from in the USSR, educate, and what was their "oligarchic power"?

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

You would be better off not dodging the essence of the issue, but clearly showing how the Soviet "oligarchs" left their fortunes as heirs, or pushed them into power so that the picture was objective.

The bottom line is that the transfer of power by inheritance, the size of the salary and concern for private (not public) interests are not immanent in an oligarchic form of government, but SOMETIMES (even very often) are introduced into it. Until 1934, the Bolsheviks were a kind of oligarchy, Stalin did away with this and became a dictator (or "red monarch"), who sought to increase the role of the soviets, and Malinovsky-Khrushchev-Brezhnev revived the oligarchy in full. Yes, and a dictator is not necessarily a self-serving executioner, although history is full of such. And about how the heirs of the Soviet oligarchs lived, where they studied, what dizzying careers they made, how they had fun, are the stories of Galina Brezhneva and Churbanov not enough for you? Such stories are dark throughout the USSR. So, verbiage here you are.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

Until 1934, the Bolsheviks were a kind of oligarchy, Stalin did away with this and became a dictator (or "red monarch"), who sought to enhance the role of the soviets, and Malinovsky-Khrushchev-Brezhnev revived the oligarchy in full.

No need to re-solzhenitsyn, Bonner and other Svanidze - this is rubbish leave for those who have not yet seen life, and do not know how modern oligarchs live.

Quote: sniperino

And about how the heirs of the Soviet oligarchs lived, where they studied, what dizzying careers they made, how they had fun, do you have few stories of Galina Brezhneva and Churbanov?

Firstly, G. Brezhnev did not inherit anything, and I saw the cottage where she gave interviews to foreign journalists - the servants of modern oligarchs live better with us.
Secondly, Churbanov himself was not from the elite, and he did not rise high, judging by his position - he did not even pull on the minister.
But this is not even the point, but the fact that there were several dozen of them all over the country, and they did not smash expensive foreign cars, as did, for example, Ishayev’s grandson or the son of some top manager from Lukoil - as they say feel the difference.

Quote: sniperino

Such stories are darkness throughout the USSR. So verbiage you are here.

You’re lying, as usual, because there were few such cases, they didn’t cause damage to the rest of the citizens, and, moreover, they died while fighting for their homeland in World War II. Name whose son of the current oligarchs died or was injured, at least in Chechnya - then we'll talk about who the verbiage is here.

[Karen]

Quote: ccsr

Secondly, Churbanov himself was not from the elite, and he did not rise high, judging by his position - he did not even pull on the minister.
But this is not even the point, but the fact that there were several dozen of them all over the country, and they did not smash expensive foreign cars, as did, for example, Ishayev’s grandson or the son of some top manager from Lukoil - as they say feel the difference.

Churbanov did much worse ... He ordered to erase the records on organized crime, the archive in the Central Exhibition Center of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs ... You could see something similar in 2008 - with the unnecessary reorganization imposed on the cops ... That is, those who, like, marry everyone there chumpanovs on all sorts of galin - they are the main ones in the country ... And it is they who, in a "friendly and warm atmosphere", whisper to the Kremlin elders that they should make decisions in the morning ... And "talking heads" - so these and 4 times can declare victory over the ISIS ...

[ccsr]

Quote: Karen

He ordered that the records of organized crime, the archive be erased at the CC of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs ...

Then everything was duplicated on paper, so even if something was destroyed in the database on media, paper archives were saved.

Quote: Karen

And it is they who, in a "friendly and warm atmosphere", whisper to the Kremlin elders that they should make decisions in the morning ...

Indeed, at that time senior leaders had already lost the opportunity to quickly lead the country, and dishonest officials took advantage of this.

[Karen]

This information was from my friends there programmers ... So, there is a possibility that a similar order was on paper originals ...
I want to repeat myself - in 2008, a reorganization was specially organized in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, so that all operational information would be thrown away ... The cops saved only what they could take home ... From the actions of the Kremlin ... Far from being an "old man". ..

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

You’re lying, as usual, because there were few such cases,

What I'm lying - it is necessary to prove. And you, as usual, goof off, not responding to the main arguments, but clinging to particular examples without counterarguments, but with your only correct opinion. Weren't you a Komsomol?

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

And you, as usual, goof off, not responding to the main arguments,

The main argument is that the children of the highest Soviet leaders, at least the Brezhnev period, were not oligarchs. Name at least one of them who became an oligarch with his living parents. And then we’ll see who is stupid here.

[sniperino]

Quote: ccsr

The main argument is that the children of the highest Soviet leaders, at least the Brezhnev period, were not oligarchs.

This is not an argument in favor of whether these leaders were oligarchs or not. The only constitutive attribute of the oligarchs is real participation in political decision-making. If you want to object, give at least one example after Stalin, where the decision of the oligarchs prepared by the presidium would be discussed at least at the congress (communist party or councils), not to mention the decision of the congress to reject it. The last, as far as I know, was in response to Stalin’s request to relieve him of the burden of the party’s general secretary. I believe he realized a year before his death that the oligarchic CPSU, clinging to power, posed the main threat to the cause of building socialism, but did not manage to free itself from this party and free the country from it.

[sniperino]

Quote: sniperino

oligarchic Communist Party

Requires clarification. The oligarchic in the form of its organization, in which the place of intra-party discussion took full agreement with the opinion of older (in the intra-party hierarchy) comrades. At the moment when this happened (this moment is still waiting for its historians), the party lost the moral right to be ruling in a country with a one-party system, because transformed from a democratic to an oligarchic refuge of careerists.

[ccsr]

Quote: sniperino

The only constitutive attribute of the oligarchs is real participation in political decision-making.

Even in the seedy collective farm, no matter what decision the assembly takes, the chairman will have a decisive vote - these are the features of managing large teams. Do you want the state to run a veche? It's not gonna go...

Quote: sniperino

I believe he realized a year before his death that the oligarchic CPSU, clinging to power, posed the main threat to the cause of building socialism, but did not manage to free itself from this party and free the country from it.

This is just speculation, but in fact, Stalin perfectly understood that only a narrow circle of highly moral-minded like-minded people could rule our country, which is why he was so cruel to those who messed up the honor of his circle. For example, even the case of Tukhachevsky arose not so much from his art in the development of armaments, as that he began to practice lordly habits, and this led to the collapse of his career.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Lies! Most were for preserving the Union!

Well, why didn’t the people go out when the drunk banned the activities of the CPSU, which led the Union?
Do not dissemble, very many dreamed of capitalist goods, that's why they did not resist the collapse of the Union. And the majority opinion, those who wanted to seize power, were not at all interested.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: ccsr

And the majority opinion, those who wanted to seize power, were not at all interested.

Here I am about the same. We were littered with a beautiful western wrapper, "forgetting" to mention what the contents smells like.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Here I am about the same. We were littered with a beautiful western wrapper, "forgetting" to mention what the contents smells like.

That is right. And we are to blame for this in the first place, that's why any desire that is not backed up by actions is tantamount to inaction, which I am talking about.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: ccsr

And we ourselves are to blame for this in the first place

Is the child who took the candy from a bad uncle to blame?

[ccsr]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Is the child who took the candy from a bad uncle to blame?

The child is not to blame, but the parents who allowed it. Yes, and we were not such simpletons in Soviet times, just many secretly thought, "I will definitely live like in the West, unlike my neighbor."

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: ccsr

and the parents who allowed it.

So I tell you about that, at that time the parents were the government of the USSR. Mistake, intent, betrayal - it does not matter, but they are to blame, and not all of us.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Mistake, intent, betrayal - it does not matter, but they are to blame, and not all of us.

Of course, we are not to blame, but someone else, the government, for example. And who knocked on their helmets on Gorbaty Bridge that they had no soap, the "sufferers" from the highest-paid category of workers in the USSR? And everyone else waited for how it would end - so they waited ...

[Fan-fan]

So we were promised capitalism with a human face, as in Norway or in Sweden, and we saw only the face of this face.

[ccsr]

Quote: Fan-Fan

So we were promised capitalism with a human face, as in Norway or in Sweden, and we saw only the face of this face.

No, we just ended up in primitive capitalism ... that’s more accurate.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Romka

Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and undoubted meaning is nothing but a tool for rulers

Anything can be turned into a tool. This is not a property of the "object", but a property of the personality of the "user".
A parent’s love for a child can easily become an instrument in the hands of a child abductor.
So this is not an indicator at all

[balunn]

Now the dirt will pour. Lev Nikolaevich was excommunicated. Rather, the church has ceased to consider him its member for his statements.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Romka

And no matter how patriotic - so the hut in Europe

Alexander Prokhorenko, for example, yes? Your generalization is incorrect

[Romka]

This is if you put Alexander Prokhorenko and Goblin on the same line that will be wrong.

[mr.ZinGer]

Explain how this relates to the theme of the site.

[Phil77]

The public life of our country. Just the moment of publication is not quite right.

[Prisoner]

That the "holy man", that the newspapers of the "New ..." stigmas in fluff. All those are still storytellers.

[Mestny]

Some believe unconditionally.

[alexey alexeyev_2]

Mdya ... And we got a stanitsa father on drugs .. So by the way ...

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

The topic is about how easily the whole media can lie.
It's even easier to lie to a bot on the Internet.

[shura7782]

The roll-over to the ROC in the media has been going on in the most active way since 14g. Especially a lot of videos are laid out in "classmates". The fact that this shit is from non-stale rushing has long been clear. They do not disdain anything. But what is more surprising is that we have this "information" not questionable, easily taken on faith, joyfully relished and passed on. In VO there is a category that does not respect the faith of their ancestors. Everyone is trying to expose the priest and grab his beard. Those who want to truly find the truth, find. The punishment is fast there. Instantly for the staff.

[AU Ivanov.]

But, agree with me, the clergy, especially the highest, should be more modest. Monks, after all. Did Jesus, the Son of God, abide in luxury?

[chip]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

agree with me, the clergy, especially the highest, should be more modest

Agree with me, Ivanov, who starts to write comments without reading the article, is it not worth doing that? He should be more modest and stop discussing things that he has formed from such fake publications.
Is it logical

[AU Ivanov.]

According to our Orthodox dogmas, the head of the Church is Jesus Christ Himself, not a pope, like the Catholics. Christ, who moved by no means on an Arabian horse, but on a modest donkey and property neglected. Why should not his servants take an example from the Chapter? Quite often there are some ministers of the Church, well, very immodest expensive foreign cars.

[chip]

I am not interested in your opinion about the Church, for you, from the first words in this topic, have already demonstrated utter ignorance on this issue and, moreover, neglect, without bothering to understand even this tiny article, did not bother to read it at all.
I’m interested in what exactly I asked you about. Shouldn't you, being a complete ignoramus in the subject of discussion, weigh yourself more modestly and learn from those who are more versed in this topic? This is logical.

[Mestny]

They have their own truth. Logic doesn't work here.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Mestny

own truth

Your truth is a synonym for lies

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

Your truth is a synonym for lies

So she is your own! Here is an example of a servant of God and the great Orthodox patriarch -

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Ingvar 72

she and your own

We have it in common - keep it and if you can

[AleBors]

Many familiar priests. None have immodest foreign cars. Mostly domestic auto industry or heavily used imports. Where do you get information from?

[ccsr]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Why should not his servants take an example from the Chapter?

You will not be from schismatics? Do you yourself even believe in the Lord God?

[shura7782]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

worth being more modest.

Modesty is good. Stand aside barefoot in rags with a long staff and keep quiet? Will it satisfy you? Still not satisfied. It will catch the eye of a pop on a car better than yours and again doubts will prevail. Like, where did you get the money? Therefore, specify. More modest, what exactly?

[chip]

Quote: shura7782

with us this "information" is not susceptible to doubt, it is easily taken on faith

Atheists are the most fanatical believers. If they start thinking, they often end up betraying their "faith." Therefore, for them there is only one way to remain "loyal" - to throw slogans and not think.
And these slogans have been driven in some of ours since their communist childhood.
It is also important to understand that for a person to be called untrue what he was taught in childhood and on which he, therefore, built his personality, often means losing most of himself. Not everyone is capable of such changes - a person is weak.

[DNS-a42]

Quote: Chip

Atheists are the most fanatical believers.

Of course, living in modern Russian society without any superstitions and prejudices is very difficult. How not to believe here)

[Mestny]

Ask how many believers and superstitions in the United States. You will be surprised.
Likely to live there quite tight.

[DNS-a42]

Quote: shura7782

You are aware that the Communist Party condemned this struggle.

Who cares what the militants of the Communist Party condemned there?

Quote: shura7782

innocent victims rehabilitated after Stalin.

True, most suffered for the cause.

Quote: shura7782

Before them, too, was someone? Why such a rejection?

And before Christ there were Perun, Veles, Svarog, etc. What have you forgotten about them?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: DNS-a42

And before Christ were Perun, Veles

Wandered in the dark. There was a time, no one argues.

[balunn]

Under Christ, too, there were many things ..... one Nikon reform which was worth

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: balunn

a lot of things ..... one Nikon reform that was worth

But what was it worth?

[balunn]

Thousands of lives and centuries of persecution, those who disagreed with the reform. Poor apparently you are teaching history

[ccsr]

Quote: balunn

Thousands of lives and centuries of persecution, those who disagreed with the reform.

These sanctuaries did not even remember how they spread rot of the same Russian people who simply did not want to change the faith of their ancestors and even had to emigrate from the country. But if the Bolsheviks decided to take power and abandon the church as an attribute of statehood, they still can’t forgive Lenin that he made a generally thought-out decision, because the state in that situation could not contain ministers cult - the country was in ruin.
In general, the hypocrisy of the sanctuary is manifested in such things, which is why I believe that it is right that religion can in no way be connected with the state - it is a pity that some leaders did not understand this.

[DNS-a42]

Lots of. Life in the United States for people who "did not fit into the American market" is not very sweet. There is a huge social base for all sects. It is the Russian Orthodox Church that dominates in the Russian Federation, and there is a spiritual medicine for every taste and choice.

[ccsr]

Quote: Chip

Atheists are the most fanatical believers.

Why do you think so? And atheists sometimes think about obscure phenomena, but this does not mean that they should believe in God.

Quote: Chip

And these slogans have been driven in some of ours since their communist childhood.

But there is no need for an artistic whistle, because in my family my grandfather was a party member, my grandmother was a believer, my father was also a party member, and my mother always believed in God. Brother and sister believe in God, and I do not - and now why should we arrange religious disputes when we meet? I respect their choice and will never advise them anything, so your slogan about "fanaticism" does not roll. Nobody in the USSR hammered anything into anyone, everyone made their own choice, following the example of their parents in the first place, and this is how the overwhelming majority of our people lived at the time I was growing up.

Quote: Chip

Not everyone is capable of such changes - a person is weak.

So why, then, do you think that "atheists" should retrain into "true believers" if they are strong personalities in themselves?

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: ccsr

I have

I, to me, to me.
You are too many here in the examples. You are not a standard, it’s silly of yourself to build a measurement system.
In addition, you are more like an agnostic than an atheist.
And yes - membership in the Communist Party also does not make a person an atheist.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

You are not a standard, it’s silly of yourself to build a measurement system.

Offer an example from your life, not from a fictitious one, and see who believes in it.
I hope you understand that you are not the standard to reckon with your opinion?

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

In addition, you are more like an agnostic than an atheist.

Yes, in fact I am an agnostic, but what does it change in my worldview of modern reality?

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

And yes - membership in the Communist Party also does not make a person an atheist.

I agree, because I became atheists more by virtue of the knowledge gained than by virtue of belonging to the party.

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o

I, to me, to me.

And about whom to tell me - about you, about your mother-in-law or about your relatives? I’m talking about what happened to me, and everyone who reads my words will draw a conclusion.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: ccsr

Suggest an example from your life

I, unlike you, do not feel such an urgent need for others to approve my position in the Church. I’m quite sure of it and without the opinion of strangers from the first forum I got.

Quote: ccsr

I'm essentially an agnostic

Or an atheist?

Quote: ccsr

I became more atheists by virtue of my knowledge

The knowledge? And during what kind of research did you gain reliable knowledge about the absence of God?

Quote: ccsr

about whom to tell me - about you, about your mother-in-law or about your relatives?

But take offense and be rude - not worth it. I made a remark in the matter.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

And during what kind of research did you gain reliable knowledge about the absence of God?

In the course of studying natural sciences, I realized that no one was able to prove the presence of God in physical phenomena. From this we conclude - faith in God is only a vestigial inherited from those times when the level of science was very low.

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

I made a remark in the matter.

Die the church propaganda itch, here is still a forum for people interested in military affairs, and among them the smallest percentage of believers in God - I can say this, because I know this environment too well. Therefore, I adhere to the main principle - I do not meddle in your church affairs, including with real estate purchases, and clergy should not meddle in matters of defense of the Fatherland, because this is profanity for those who understand the level of modern weapons.

[chip]

Quote: ccsr

this does not mean that they should believe in God

To believe or not to believe is a matter of faith. What could be easier?

Quote: ccsr

in my family, my grandfather was a party, my grandmother is a believer, my father was also a party, and my mother always believed in God

You really don’t notice how you illustrate my statement? )))
The presence of faithful mothers and grandmothers does not allow you to raise your hand to "someone else's" faith. This is the only difference. At the same time for yourself - you have chosen the path of your father and grandfather. The same legacy I'm talking about. At this age, you cannot find the strength in yourself to change something in the vision of your father and grandfather, you cannot change it in yourself, since the "stone" with these layouts has long been laid in the base of your foundation, its dismantling can destroy you. You are an ordinary weak person.

Quote: ccsr

Nobody in the USSR drove anything to anyone

You are talking about the late USSR, many church ministers did not live to see it, but went to the "fraternal" ditches of camps and "polygons", like Butovo.

[ccsr]

Quote: Chip

The presence of faithful mothers and grandmothers does not allow you to raise your hand to "someone else's" faith. This is the only difference.

Not quite so, because the believers were my more distant ancestors, and in gratitude for the fact that they created a great power, I should respect their religion. I don’t see anything here that would lead to my hypocritical attitude towards religion, which I regard more as a historical fact of a certain period of the formation of the state.

Quote: Chip

At this age, you cannot find the strength in yourself to change something in the vision of your father and grandfather, you cannot change it in yourself, since the "stone" with these layouts has long been laid in the base of your foundation, its dismantling can destroy you.

This is demagoguery. My brother, too, was not a believer for many years, but one incident made him believe in God, and he had seen enough of every forty years of walking on the seas and oceans. And nothing, he as a person did not collapse, and he does not go to church, but he studies the Bible with interest. Why if I believe in God, then I must surely collapse?

Quote: Chip

You are an ordinary weak person.

It is possible, but not for you to judge about it, all the more in absentia - you are not our Lord, but only interpret his teachings, and it is still unknown for what benefit to yourself. So moderate the ardor about my weakness - I can also call you a seller of opium for the people.

Quote: Chip

You are talking about the late USSR, many church ministers did not live to see it, but went to the "fraternal" ditches of camps and "polygons", like Butovo.

My grandfather and uncle died in the Great Patriotic War, the rest of the relatives and father fought, and some camp prisoners later became folk artists. As for the clergy, it is unfortunate that such a tragedy happened, but they brought a lot of turmoil into the heads of their parishioners during the Civil War, so there was no need to play political games and they would have suffered less - I think so.

[chip]

Quote: ccsr

This is demagoguery.

In this case, take it easy to indicate "sophisms" in this statement, or do not throw words, the meaning of which you do not understand. Demagoguery, wow. We got it, ignoramuses.

Quote: ccsr

And nothing, he as a person did not collapse

Where does this contradict what I wrote? Your brother just turned out to be a pretty strong person. Honor and praise.

Quote: ccsr

Why if I believe in God, then I must surely collapse?

Re-read my post.

Quote: ccsr

not for you to judge

It’s not for you to judge what I should judge.

Quote: ccsr

just interpret his teaching

I don’t interpret any teaching. I do not have the proper knowledge.

Quote: ccsr

there was no need to play political games and they would have suffered less

Who are they? What games? I point blank do not see the subject about which you wrote this phrase.

[ccsr]

Quote: Chip

In this case, take it easy to indicate "sophisms" in this statement,

Demagogy is a set of oratory and polemic techniques and tools that allow you to mislead the audience and incline it to your side, using false theoretical reasoning based on logical errors (sophisms).
You have false theoretical considerations regarding me, and it is not necessary that they are based only on sophisms, because your lies may be the result of your upbringing.

Quote: Chip

Re-read my post.

Why, if I already understood that you are only listening to yourself.

Quote: Chip

I don’t interpret any teaching.

Oh really? And who began to decide who is weak and who is strong? On the basis of what do you determine this - does the person believe in God in relation or not? Oh well...

Quote: Chip

Who are they?

Priests affected after the October Revolution.

Quote: Chip

What games?

Political - in support of the old order, against which the Bolsheviks fought.

Quote: Chip

I point blank do not see the subject about which you wrote this phrase.

Do not want to see - it’s more convenient for you.

[chip]

Quote: ccsr

You have false theoretical considerations regarding me

Show that you get "false theoretical reasoning"? I’m reading the second post on one topic from you - and all of it is not specific. It seems to me ...

Quote: ccsr

I understand that you are only listening to yourself

Whom I am listening to is the tenth matter. It is important that you listen (or rather read) what you are responding to. Otherwise, some kind of beleberd is obtained.

Quote: ccsr

And who began to decide who is weak and who is strong?

Once again - what does your weakness and teaching of the Church have to do with it?

Quote: ccsr

Priests affected after the October Revolution.

Quote: ccsr

Political - in support of the old order, against which the Bolsheviks fought.

Those of the clergy who could not resist the support of one of the parties in the fratricidal war mostly lay down during the Civil War or emigrated.
In the years of repression from the ministers of the Church, it was not politicians who suffered.
Events mixed in your head for nearly a decade are mixed in your head.

[ccsr]

Quote: Chip

Once again - what does your weakness and teaching of the Church have to do with it?

Despite the fact that you deftly led to a speculative statement - you believed in God, then you became strong. And if he was strong before he believed in God? Or a person who does not believe in God cannot be strong, but must be weak, according to your ideas?
You stated the same:

Your brother just turned out to be a pretty strong person.
..... You are an ordinary weak person.

Answer without evading - on the basis of what do you draw such a conclusion?

Quote: Chip

Events mixed in your head for nearly a decade are mixed in your head.

I already noticed once that you simply use demagogy when the question is about concrete examples. When you are asked direct questions about the same affected clergymen who sided with the former government and suffered for it, you immediately begin to get off with general phrases like:

Quote: Chip

and all not what specifics. It seems to me ...

Quote: Chip

Otherwise, some kind of beleberd is obtained.

Quote: Chip

In the years of repression from the ministers of the Church, it was not politicians who suffered.

So what about your demagoguery, I’m 100% right, and you, realizing this, are trying to hide it in general terms.

[balunn]

You teach history very badly, the clergy suffered just because they were, as above somewhere they slipped as a "pillar of Russia", or, to put it simply, the basis of the monarchical system. Whom they supported and what they preached during the Civil War, I think there is no need to explain.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: shura7782

The fact that from non-stray rushing this shit has long been clear

By the way, a very correct remark. Only not specifically from the square, but from the "zapadentsev" and Ukrainian, and ours, and Belarusian, etc.
There is a character destiny20 raving from below, a vivid example. In one topic, Lukashenko’s policy of moving away from the Russian Federation will support him, in another he will throw libel on the Russian Orthodox Church, and he envies the third SS veteran. The classic hard worker of the anti-Russian front. And ours, who are not far-sighted, are happy to pick up this nonsense - nda ..

[Mestny]

I will not be at a loss to repeat - the content of conversations in a particular place directly depends on him, his place, and the owner.
In this case, the administration of VO.
If there is a crowd of outspoken trolls raving, then this means the administration is happy.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Mestny

If there is a crowd of outspoken trolls raving, it means the administration is happy

Right.
According to my observations, local bots can be divided into 4 main groups.
1) "State employees". These are the most thankless jobs, they have to "defend" any position of our powers that be (from Gazprom to the pension reform). If today the official Seryozha is in favor, and they hit him, they will shield Seryozha in every possible way. If Seryozha fell out of favor tomorrow, they would rush to drown him in unison (with Serdyukov, even 3 changes of slippers had to go through, for example). The lack of logic, common sense and banal truth (not always, but fairly) in their work turns them into thoughtless, rude to everyone and everything, hysterics. A striking example is a manul cat, he's some kind of jack. One misfortune, the results of their "work" are directly opposite to what they are paid for - with their rudeness and stupidity, they only more inflame the people's dislike for their employers.
2) "Westerners". Here are bots from the Square, liberal bots, and other riffraff. Their task is consonant with their character - to hate everything around. Therefore, they even do their job with a certain ardor. Natural closeness and lack of truth in their position, however, prevents them from achieving any meaningful results. Examples: smart guy, phat monster, etc.
3) "Communists". The views of this group are so perverted that they can kiss simultaneously a bust of Lenin, a portrait of Stalin and a photo of the oligarch Grudinin. The inglorious defeat of the communist idea in the past and the usurpation of it in the present, which has nothing to do with communism by the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, guarantee the senselessness of their work. An attempt to "canonize" a sick animal that shot at people in the Lubyanka is their classic style.
4) "Israelites". We began with a careful "enlightenment" of the gray masses of the forum regarding the events in the phaserland of Israel, resting against the wall of rejection, however, now they are moving on to outright rudeness and outpouring of absurd anger. In the eyes of their former compatriots, they look, in spite of everything, as traitors to the Motherland and defenders of the mean and bloody deeds of the elite of the State of Israel - one cannot hope for success even for this group. A coassic example is a professional.

[balunn]

you would inhale less incense ....
"People are all mixed up ... horses" (c)

[ccsr]

Quote: balunn

you would inhale less incense ....
"People are all mixed up ... horses" (c)

I also noticed that he obviously has a zeal out of mind ....

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: balunn

All mixed up people ... horses

Which group to split?

[Deck]

In VO there is a category that does not respect the faith of their ancestors.

Well, why, my grandfather and father were convinced real communists. They fought for a just cause, including bourgeois henchmen - they did not make priests and wealth. How can I not respect them?

[Mestny]

Is communism a religion?
What a twist!
Something somehow did not last long.

[ccsr]

Quote: Mestny

Something somehow did not last long.

And who told you that humanity buried Marxism? Does the example of China or Vietnam tell you anything?

[shura7782]

Quote: Deck

.... my grandfather and father were ......

Before them, too, was someone? Why such a rejection? Maybe they drove them with a stick to the church? Deceived money by deception? Deprived of life? So, that many had, and this did not prevent their wives and grandmothers from secretly baptizing children and grandchildren. Well, the fact that they painted eggs before Easter ..... didn’t you have this at home?))) Sorry, if you are a Muslim by birth or a Jew, I have no questions. They have different rules.

Fought for a just cause, including bourgeois henchmen - priests

You are aware that the Communist Party condemned this fight., And the innocent victims were rehabilitated after Stalin.

How can I not respect them?

Yes, you need to respect and honor your parents.

[Fan-fan]

The goal of any religion is to help the authorities keep the people in check and obedience. And to believe in God or not to believe is a private matter. Although most believers also understand that there is no god, since with a serious illness, for example, they do not begin to believe in God, but in science they seek not a priest, but a doctor who has the most advanced treatment methods.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Deck

my grandfather and father were convinced real communists. Fought for a just cause, including bourgeois henchmen - priests

And where were you, together with your "heroic" ancestors, when Borya and the pigs marked by your country were fed? Or is it one thing to scribble a slander on unrequited believers, and quite another to oppose the power to utter a word? Ugh.

[Deck]

when Borya fed pigs to your country

About pigs you are you rightly noticed. Climbed out of all the cracks. they put their fat grunts in a people's pocket, all in crosses and golden watches. In other matters, what do you care my country

[bober1982]

Quote: Deck

put their fat grunts in a folk pocket

But Stalin didn’t think so, therefore such allegations are Trotskyist.
In 1943, Stalin met in the Kremlin with three metropolitans of the Russian Church, and the first Stalinist words were words of gratitude to the Church.
Has been proposed material help, including. And, mind you, they covered up all the printed anti-religious hack, because of paper savings, and allocated money (paper) for the church press!
Assistance was provided - gasoline, cars, building materials, cash and much, much more. Here you are, and the separation of the Church from the state, learn from Stalin.

[Deck]

Comrade Stalin gave and filled with gasoline?

Comrade Stalin - shot a couple of thousand priests, demolished several thousand churches, and thanked the rest. The survivors warmly thanked the leader.

Here you are, and the separation of the Church from the state, learn from Stalin

We understood the hint, we will study.

[bober1982]

Quote: Deck

Comrade Stalin - shot a couple of thousand priests, demolished several thousand churches

The Trotskyists (Satanists) were malignant, your "spiritual" fathers and mentors, these comrades, Stalin then shot everyone like mad dogs.

[Deck]

Comrade Stalin is dead. We, the "Trotskyists", together with the "spiritual" fathers, can now be violent with renewed vigor.

[bober1982]

Quote: Deck

Comrade Stalin died

How disrespectfully you speak of Comrade Stalin, ay, where are the Stalinists, they are beating!

[bubalik]

,,, even if we do not take the financial component of the Russian Orthodox Church, then why are there more religious schools in Russia now than military universities?

[chip]

Quote: bubalik

Why are there more religious educational institutions in Russia than military universities?

This is not entirely true. There are numerically more military educational institutions (independent and on the basis of other universities) in Russia even after the Serdyukov reforms than seminaries and theological academies.
But this is not even the main thing. 2 points are more important:
1) The donations of the believer of the Church are much less than the taxes that he pays to the state. Why the Church manages the money donated to her better than the state - the question is not to believers and not to the Church.
2) Why doesn’t it bother you that economic universities, for example, in our country are almost 2 orders of magnitude larger than military ones?

[shura7782]

Quote: bubalik

Why are there more religious educational institutions in Russia than military universities?

Sergey, I am familiar with those and other educational institutions. You are absolutely right. spiritual ultras more. They are kept at the expense of parishioners. The set is small, the output is even smaller. Someone realized that this was not his life. After distribution, even less (depending on arrival). Not everyone is ready to immediately restore the temple from ruins. There are simply no abilities. There are also many other reasons from which the ranks of the clergy are thinning. Someone is being deprived of dignity, who for five years is being taken out of the staff and so on. There, parishioners' complaints are harshly reacted, not like in our secular real life. Oh, so sorry. There is someone to learn from.

[Fan-fan]

Why are there more religious educational institutions in Russia than military universities?

Probably because the priests convinced Putin that they would defeat the enemies faster than all the enemies with a cross and prayer than the army with aviation and navy.

[destiny20]

Incidentally, the topic is extremely interesting! it is a pity that in VO they seem to bypass it. It's a pity!
because there is something to deal with! and about the alcohol business, and about cigarettes, and about yachts, security and expensive cars. also separately, but no less important, this education. Now explain why the MEPhI Department of Theology? prayers to stop neutrons?
Of course, they forgot about everyday life. from the consecration of roads (I would take epaulettes for such a thing!) and to the consecration of missiles (here not only epaulets should be removed)
And yes, post this goblin here ... well, right! muveton! its even looking disgusting. but don’t you?

[chip]

Quote: destiny20

there is something to deal with! and about the alcohol business, and about cigarettes, and about yachts, security and expensive cars

You figured it out? Or are you making conclusions based on similar materials, like this article from a new newspaper?

Quote: destiny20

why at MEPhI the department of theology?

And why not?

Quote: destiny20

before the consecration of missiles (here not only shoulder straps must be removed)

And what, excuse me, is necessary. Specifically write.

[destiny20]

And why not?

That is, everything is OK? I don’t want that such students would start nuclear power plants in my country. at the outfall in the outback, pour at least holy water into the reactor. your right

[chip]

Quote: destiny20

I don’t want to have such students launch nuclear power plants in my country

Do you think that graduates of the department of theology then go and "launch nuclear power plants"?
Then you are not to me - you are in a manger, and the whole process of socialization will go through again. From the first time, as you can see, you did not succeed at all.

[Andrey VOV]

Hey you, freshly registered, do you want to sketch here on purpose? Would you go, and then the chorus from the song "road" of the group "Leningrad"

[9PA]

“Many will say to me that day: Lord! Lord Was it not in your name that we prophesied? and didn’t they cast out demons in your name? and didn’t you perform many miracles in your name? And then I will declare to them: I never knew you; depart from Me, doing iniquity ”

[Dedok]

The question is not that this is nonsense; The question is different - that the ROC closes its eyes to such cases. And nowadays - the era of the Internet - and this immediately translates into the vastness of the universe.
And in the Russian Orthodox Church, it seems, they can’t understand this in any way.
A case with me pops up in my memory: I am standing on the road, a Tundra with glass sealed with a film drives up, the glass goes down, and what I see: Father, whose stomach is occupied by the space between the steering wheel and the seat, on which lies a huge cross. Well, in general, this is normal, BUT, his parish is ruined, and he, regularly from everyone, asks for money for it ... And how to understand this?

[Mestny]

Twenty-five again ... money for fish.
What cases should the ROC not turn a blind eye to? Which are described in Novaya Gazeta? So it turned out to be a lie.
Lies, do you understand? Why suddenly, if this is a lie, everything else on the same topic will be true, and we should be so worried about the "bad Russian Orthodox Church" that "does not react" to this?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mestny

What cases should the ROC not turn a blind eye to?

There was such an archbishop of Chukotka and Anadyr, Diomede. He described all cases of violations of the apostolic rules on points, so in response he was deprived of his rank. There is data on the Internet, search, and browse.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ingvar 72

There was such an archbishop of Chukotka and Anadyr, Diomede.

Quote: Ingvar 72

He described all cases of violations of the apostolic rules on points

Are you a monarchist? The former bishop (and not the archbishop) considered only the monarchy an acceptable mode of government. Who are against - Satanists.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: bober1982

Are you a monarchist?

Yes. But in the current situation, I support the red idea, because the only possible option to raise the state somehow is to return to the red idea. The return of the monarchy is currently not possible.
P.S. By the way, the accusation of the top of the Russian Orthodox Church by Diomede and his views on power are from different operas.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ingvar 72

The return of the monarchy is currently not possible.

Yes, I agree, but not only at the moment. It's simple - there are no legitimate heirs, only impostors.
By the way, the position of the Church on this issue is very balanced and cautious. When the great Russian elder, Father John Krestyankin, was asked about the possibility of restoring the monarchy in Russia, he answered very intelligibly and simply ........... if only the Chinese king

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: bober1982

It's simple - there are no legitimate heirs, only impostors.

Well, Volodya the Baptist was the same not quite a legitimate contender. Like Romanov, however.
Regarding the Chinese king - yes, the script is frightening, but possible. Especially thanks to the policies of the current government.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Well, Volodya the Baptist was the same not quite a legitimate contender. Like Romanov, however.

Father John Krestyankin did not advise to enter into a dispute with atheists, godless fighters. Overheard.
And, my respect for you.

[Ingvar 72]

Yes, I'm not the God of God Volodya. More agnostic with a pagan bias. And in a dispute, truth is born.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ingvar 72

More agnostic with a pagan bias

We’d better follow the advice of the priest (just in case, but who knows)

[Ingvar 72]

There are all sorts of cases! Suddenly I will also entice you to the dark side of the force!

[shura7782]

Quote: Dedok

. And how to understand this?

If the abbot confused his pocket with the restoration of his temple, then the parishioners must declare this to him first, and then to their diocese. Be sure everything is resolved. There are plenty of ways. Who will lose the dignity, who will be transferred to the wilderness, etc. Even if the parishioners simply don’t like the priest, they will replace him.
Regarding the belly ..... There is no answer. I’m surprised myself.
About the cool cars. Somehow he spoke to a very well-known priest: “I used to ride a more modest one .. People are embarrassed.” He pointed to our “candy king” who presented a car (minivan) to him in the parish for a year. Of course, in fact, this is not a mass phenomenon, but it is not rare either. There are other examples as well.

[AleBors]

Another throwing of militant atheists.

[Servisinzhener]

The investigation missed one fundamentally important thing. Namely, the size of the income of the metropolitan, and everything needs to be measured against this. If he has incomes in the amount of the minimum wage and there has never been any income in excess of this. Even from writing books or teaching abroad. This is one situation, and if he has a large income from which he pays taxes, then the situation is fundamentally different.

[Mestny]

The video still needs to be watched.

[Clueless]

Now, will Puchkova advertise here? ;)

[bober1982]

Quote: Bad

Now, will Puchkova advertise here?

Better than him Эхо Москвы и Rain.

[babylon]

When finally these zhurnalyugi begin to answer for their words and doctors for their mistakes

[Jarserge]

With the Orthodox Church, of course, not everything is as good as we would like. But "Novaya Gazeta" and other "investigators (who have no idea about the investigation as such) are fulfilling an order from those people who" muddied "the Tomos in Ukraine and other schismatic movements. It's good that they are employees of these propaganda publications, mediocrity and non-professionals ...

[podymych]

Now guess - who should be more afraid. Crazed liberals who, out of envy, are ready to find anything in bins, if only this search is paid.
Or the dark greens, who now have such a pretty female leader. But for which at the same time each of your "bunch" is a crime against nature.
Fanaticism in any shell does not lead to good, alas. And it’s well known what intentions are strewn with the road to hell.

[Suraikin.Aleksandr]

A metropolitan is a title in a church that can only be obtained by a church minister who has received monastic tonsure. You can open any site of the Russian Orthodox Church and see what vows a monk makes; in the Russian Orthodox Church, this also includes a vow for non-possession of property in the world, especially luxury goods. But if everything is as Puchkov says, then for a monk, it’s still serious accusations, according to church charters fraught with excommunication.

[1970mk]

Yeah ... The Goblin won't tell you yet ... Who is he? The writer of history books where is he co-authored with "Ianyak the killer"?)))) AFFluoritet)))))

[aesculapius]

The new newspaper may have fooled something there, but that Metro Illarion (Alfeev / Dashevsky) - an ecumenist, philocatholic and just a wolf-plunderer of the flock of God - is known and understandable from his deeds.

[ccsr]

Quote: eskulap

but that M. Illarion (Alfeyev / Dashevsky) - an ecumenist, a philocatholic and just a wolf-plunderer of the flock of God - is known and understandable from his deeds.

And how do you yourself relate to the internal problems of our church in order to give them advice on how to evaluate their clergy? Spit on them and their problems - let them boil in their own juice, because you still can’t deceive the people, and the fact that the authority of the church is not so high, their hierarchs themselves understand. So let them clean themselves, without our advice.

[Maks1995]

1) The goblin seems to have simply quoted someone else's investigation. What if it, too, is lying?
Maybe it’s better to read the Interlocutor’s investigation directly?

2) "The price of the apartment is already 262 thousand euros." - also a lot.
Does anyone here have an apartment over the hill for at least "262 thousand euros"?
At least from acquaintances, acquaintances? At least for my beloved grandmother ???
Respond !!!

It can be seen that the Metropolitan works cool, since he earned ...

3) And the rest of the investigations, which are now Navalny, then the interlocutor, then the new newspaper (and where are all the cottages, nostinichki, apartments over the hill) - is it less true?

Since only this, far from the first news, did something dig up ??

[ccsr]

Quote: Max1995

Does anyone here have an apartment over the hill for at least "262 thousand euros"?

In our capital there are apartments for a million euros, and not one at a time - so don’t waste your time. Ten years ago, three rubles in Moscow could be sold for 300 thousand dollars, although after 2008 prices fell. I have friends who have real estate abroad, so it was not so rare for those who invested in their old age on the shores of the warm sea.

[Maks1995]

Thank . You reassured me.
A small apartment at the price of a 3-room apartment in Moscow - anyone can afford it.
Especially for one of the relatives.

And in Spain - in order to get closer to the warm sea, there was where to go from stuffy Moscow ...

[ccsr]

Quote: Max1995

And in Spain - in order to get closer to the warm sea, there was where to go from stuffy Moscow ...

Neither you nor I know the purpose of this purchase and for whose money this purchase was made. So I think that hysteria is swollen from scratch - I’m sure of that. By the way, according to some who bought property abroad, they believe that they are very stuck, and now I do not know how to avoid losses during the sale. Local legislation was poorly studied, but they were bought and did not think that everything will not always go smoothly, with the same visas or with public services.

[Maks1995]

Right. We don’t know. Maybe they lied, maybe not.

And stick in - yes - you can.

Our famous Senator, here, bought dachas in France, works of art .... (although I do not remember, art may not be a Senator).

And got in. It turns out that taxes cannot be paid in Russia.

Recently I found an old ticket for an apartment, compared the rent for 8 and 19, and I realized that it was also ....
And for a long time ...

[ccsr]

Quote: Max1995

And got in. It turns out that taxes cannot be paid in Russia.

So I am about the fact that our fools think that if something was stolen from us, then the Western authorities, i.e. "state bandits", will give them a happy life with the stolen goods.

Quote: Max1995

Recently I found an old ticket for an apartment, compared the rent for the 8th and 19th year, and I realized that it was also in trouble .... And for a long time ...

In 1991, apparently ...

[Maks1995]

It's right.
Me and we are stuck.

And the senator, alas, is still thriving. Maybe only one summer cottage sold?
So this is not serious - Patriot, Senator, and only one cottage beyond the hill. Hardly, did not attend.

And here is BB. The president threatened everything - that the Angles would take everything away.
Recently watched - do not take away, scum. The kokogoto mafiosi, from Moldova or Kazakhstan, froze their accounts - and that’s all.
And from our English list of 50 thieves who promised forgiveness, they say one believed, returned, paid ... Now in court. In jail / at home - not in the know.

[Dmitry Batalin]

What can I say ...... "Novaya Gazeta" deliberately does not mention that Metropolitan Hilarion, also an outstanding Russian Composer Alfeyev ..... His wonderful sacred music, for example, the oratorio "St. Matthew Passion" is performed not only in Russia ... In addition, his music sounds in the beautiful, in my opinion, deep in content feature film directed by Pavel Lungin "The Conductor" ... That is why, even if the person "condemned" by "Novgoi Gazeta" has real estate abroad, then the financial sources of its acquisition are completely legitimate, since they are not "donations" of the bulk, according to the propagandists of "Novaya Gazeta", parishioners of the Russian Orthodox Church ...

[ser56]

it’s funny how angry the Russian Orthodox Church is ...
probably demons feel her grace ...

[Dedok]

The Russian Orthodox Church does not cause any anger, the question is, I repeat - it is to the people who the Russian Orthodox Church personify in our eyes.
And they - do not have the Right to such behavior, otherwise, the commandments - of which they speak - are only for us, and not for them. Those. what kind of unity are we talking about - if we initially divide us ... Can it be difficult to state?
Remember, it seems that Confucius said - for money you can buy a position in society, but not respect.
That's what I wrote about earlier.

[Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o]

Quote: Dedok

ROC personify

ROC personify her saints.
And people are just people. The church "administration" did not come from Mars - the people there are also a "product" of our society. Purified to a large extent (with the secular authorities, I think you will agree, cannot be compared), but still not distilled. But they are not at all the "salt" of the Church.

[ccsr]

Quote: Ge⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣o

ROC personify her saints.

It is interesting how they would look at the current leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church, in the light of some excesses that are impossible to hide, and how it turned out that the same Russian people in Ukraine disowned the Russian Orthodox Church and went into schism.

[rotkiv04]

Religion is the most successful business project in the history of mankind and has existed for more than 2000 years.

[chip]

Quote: rotkiv04

Religion is the most successful business project in the history of mankind and has existed for more than 2000 years.

A person who knows that religion is two thousand years old is definitely worth listening to. This is a very smart person.