Battle of Legnica: Horde cavalry against the knights of Europe

Battle of Legnica: Horde cavalry against the knights of Europe

Mongols on a camping trip


Spawn of Hell


For some time, Europe was not particularly interested in the Mongols. But, as soon as life made them meet, how assessments and degree of attention immediately changed. For example, Pope Gregory IX called the Mongols nothing more than messengers of hell, a kind of unstoppable locust from biblical texts.

The Europeans had reasons to use such epithets: the Mongols posed a serious danger. Not that they possessed any advanced weapons, although they skillfully borrowed military-technical achievements from the conquered peoples. They didn’t even collect grand armies of hundreds of thousands of people - they would not be pulled by any logistics of the Middle Ages. No, the strength of the Mongols was different, and it was not a simple answer to a difficult question, but a whole combination of factors.

Firstly, the Mongols were distinguished by military discipline unprecedented for the feudal Middle Ages. The vertical of power was much stronger than that of settled peoples. Yes, the commander’s actions in the context of “listen / not listen” were influenced not only by the “ranking card”, but also by his personal authority. But far from to the extent that the noble feudal lords, the most powerful of whom rather considered the commander "first among equals" than the king and lord. The result - the Europeans could not count on the level of command and control that the nomads from the east had.

The second factor is successful tactics. The Mongols relied on light horse archers, which, when used correctly, could become a very effective antidote to the heavy cavalry of the knight type. Keep your distance and bombard the enemy with arrows until he is exhausted - and win.

No, of course, this was not an easy walk and required a fair amount of tactical skill. But in most cases it worked for itself. And, more importantly, it met the capabilities of the Mongols.

After all, a knight was usually fed by at least dozens of peasants - it was thanks to their income that he bought extremely expensive equipment and an even more expensive war horse that could carry all this. In the case of the Mongols, the mobilization base was already ready - the nomad was already able to shoot archery very well. Yes, and a serious one, capable of carrying a knight in chain mail, a horse, he did not need - unpretentious, but unpretentious Mongolian horses came up.

Therefore, the Mongols could fantastically easily (for their victims - sedentary feudal lords) to collect very representative contingents, and appear with them wherever there is something to win.

Good moment


Another advantage of the Mongols against Europe (which, of course, included Russia) was the grand fragmentation of the latter. In this feudal reality, there was no way to establish a stable vertical of power - a knight, for example, could not come to war at all at the call of the overlord, if he considered it necessary. And he wouldn’t have anything for it.

In politics, Europeans also had a mess. It was impossible to count on the unification of the region against dangerous enemies. There were, of course, powerful people who, in theory, could put everyone together and send them to fight with the Mongols — the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire and the Pope. It was only in the 1220s - 1240s that these two people hated each other, as there are few others. And regularly fought among themselves.

In addition, many territories, despite all the attempts of the rulers, were divided between sons. And nothing could save from such an outcome - even if you were Charlemagne himself. If you die, a generation or two will pass, and everything collected will crumble again. Medieval Poland - a country that took the blow of nomads along with Hungary - was an excellent example of such fragmentation. There was no need to count on serious unity.

Another advantage of the Mongols was that the Europeans were very weak - which is understandable, given all the internal strife - were interested in the Mongols themselves. No, of course, there were some contacts and intelligence missions, but their results were drowning in a heap of intra-European problems and conflicts.

The Mongols themselves approached the matter exactly the opposite - they carefully collected information about the lands to which they were to head. Nobody was going to go nowhere in the hope of "maybe".

Enemy at the doorstep


The Mongol invasion west of Russia was more like reconnaissance in battle than a serious conquest of everything in a row - to see what happens. Only Hungary was planning to occupy as a springboard for future actions. But for the people and rulers of neighboring Poland, which became the arena for auxiliary Mongolian operations, everything looked as serious as possible.

The task of Tumen, sent to Poland, was to defeat the troops of the local feudal lords, which they would definitely try to set against the invaders. Just so that they do not become enemy reinforcements in the main direction of the strike - in Hungary.

This was by no means an empty whim — despite the prevailing fragmentation and feudalism, powerful rulers could well find and attract at least temporary allies. So Henry Pious - the owner of one of the most powerful principalities of Poland, Silesia - was not left without friends. Their role was played by the Czech king Wenceslas, the limited contingents of the Teutonic Order, the Templars, and groups of mercenaries and volunteers. The latter, of course, did not consist of anyone who wanted, but of a professional military.

Henry gathered all these forces. And while this was happening, the Mongols who came from the territories of Russia in January 1241 hard beat everyone who tried to resist. In March, they robbed and burned Krakow - and continued to destroy everything that reached out to their hands. This behavior made sense - the nomads urged local feudal lords to quickly enter the field to defeat them, and with a sense of accomplishment go to Hungary to strengthen the main forces.

Bits


Henry understood that the enemy was extremely serious. It took time for the Allies to approach, and he pulled it as best he could. For example, he tried to divert the advancing tumene to the city of Wroclaw, but the enemy realized that the main thing, at the moment, was the army of the Silesian prince, and not the city, and bypassed it.


Battle of Legnica in a XNUMXth century miniature

By April 9, it was no longer possible to delay time - Henry with his 6th (although much larger numbers are called) army was sitting in his castle. There was no particular place to retreat, and the impressive size of the army did not allow the siege to be accepted - it would still be impossible to feed such a mob. And then the prince decided to give a field battle.

He had not very many chances - the army of the main ally, the Czech king, had not yet come. And those who remained were, in many respects, a “patchwork” army of many contingents - including foreign ones. But it was better to die with music.

Henry divided the army into 5 parts. On the one hand, this reduced the strength of the first strike, and on the other, it left reserves - in case the nomads performed their favorite trick with a false retreat.

The Polish prince began by sending two units to attack. The result was predictable - the initial success of the heavy cavalry, but then archery, the environment, heavy losses. In all this, Henry did not doubt a bit, and then dealt a second blow, sending two more groups to the attack.

This came as a surprise to the Mongols - for a while it even seemed that they were about to be defeated. But the nomads pulled the fight literally in the balance. Rumor has it that they managed to embarrass the enemy, shouting in Polish: "Run, run!" But is it true, or is it about the later excuses of the surviving, but beaten witnesses, it is difficult to say.

Be that as it may, 4 out of 5 units of Henry were defeated.

Then the prince spat on everything, and led the last group to attack. But the outcome was already a foregone conclusion. In addition, the Mongols decided to lay out one of the trump cards - the smoke mixture mined in China. She not only upset the spear attacks, but also hit the endurance of European riders and horses.

At the end of the day, the army of Henry was utterly defeated. The prince himself, realizing that everything was in vain, tried to retreat to nearby Wroclaw, but was caught, brought to the leaders of the Mongols, and beheaded.


Mongols approach Legnica with the head of Heinrich the Pious

After that, Tumen moved to the nearby city of Legnica - in honor of him they called the battle. The Mongols offered the residents to open the gates, but there were no fools inside - everyone understood that those who had become simply cut off, removed values ​​from the city, and burned everything. Having been refused, the nomads decided not to get involved - the Polish troops were defeated anyway, and now they should go to Hungary to help the main forces.

But it was already completely different история.
Author:
Photos used:
pinterest.com, fakel-history.ru, epochaplus.cz
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  1. thanks 14 January 2020 05: 31 New
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    Europe would have been indescribable if Russia had not been in the rear of the Tatars!
    1. Alexander Suvorov 14 January 2020 08: 14 New
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      That's for sure. If it had not been for Ryazan, Vladimir, City, Kiev, Kozelsk and other Russian cities, the Mongols would have walked all over Europe with fire and a sword.
      But Europe, as always in its repertoire, did not appreciate the feat of Russia, and even to the noise decided to tear off a piece from Russia in the form of Pskov and Novgorod. They were jackals, jackals remained, wolves shameful!
      1. bessmertniy 14 January 2020 08: 56 New
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        To conquer Europe, the Mongols needed a respite, and they were not given to them by the peoples who were under their yoke.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 14 January 2020 09: 00 New
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          bessmertniy (Victor)
          To conquer Europe, the Mongols needed a respite, and they were not given to them by the peoples who were under their yoke.
          I agree, but let's be honest, not people, but people, although the concept of Russian at that time probably still did not exist. Nevertheless, no one showed serious resistance, except Rus to the Mongols. The Tatars of Khorezm basically made up the backbone of the troops who went with Batu, the Mongols there once or twice and miscalculated.
          1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 09: 30 New
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            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            not nations, but nations

            It is the peoples, and the Russians, far from in the first place.
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            no one has shown serious resistance, except Rus to the Mongols

            Much more serious and lasting resistance was provided by the Polovtsy, moreover, they constantly rebelled. Bulgaria also rebelled. Russia, in contrast to them, after the defeat during the invasion attempts of armed resistance did not take. The first anti-Mongol speeches date back to the late Alexander Nevsky. And of the Russian principalities, organized Ryazan and the Vladimir-Suzdal principality rendered organized armed resistance to the Mongols. Chernigov, Kiev, Galich and Volyn were defeated almost without a fight - only a siege.
            1. Alexander Suvorov 14 January 2020 09: 38 New
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              Trilobite Master (Michael)
              The Polovtsy had a much more serious and lasting resistance.
              Is it that which, under the onslaught of the Mongols, came to Hungary ?!
              Bulgaria also rebelled.
              Maybe she rebelled, but what resistance did she have?
              Chernigov, Kiev, Galich and Volyn were defeated almost without a fight - only a siege.
              But didn’t the forces spend on sieges?
              1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 09: 56 New
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                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Is it that which, under the onslaught of the Mongols, came to Hungary ?!

                Not everyone. Bоthe majority remained in the steppes and resisted, which the Mongols actually suppressed between 1238 and 1240, and even after that.
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                what resistance did she have?

                Open. It took the Mongols only two years to conquer Bulgaria, a small state on the Middle Volga. And after that, unlike in Russia, uprisings constantly took place.
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                didn’t the forces spend on sieges?

                Wasted. I am talking about active organized resistance, and not about passive and, as a rule, hopeless attempts to sit outside the walls.
                In general, it was Russia, perhaps, after its defeat, that delivered the least amount of trouble to the Mongols.
              2. Keyser soze 14 January 2020 19: 05 New
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                Maybe she rebelled, but what resistance did she have?


                In 1223, at the battle of Kernek, that same Mongol army, which defeated the combined forces of the Russian princes at Kalka, was cut to the root by the Volga Bulgarians.

                They are given as the number of Mongols in 150 and the Bulgarians - 000, but this is unlikely. I do not know so well Russian history and appreciation of the Mongolian forces or Kalke.
                1. Alexander Suvorov 15 January 2020 08: 07 New
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                  Keyser Soze (Eugene)
                  In 1223, at the battle of Kernek, that same Mongol army, which defeated the combined forces of the Russian princes at Kalka, was cut to the root by the Volga Bulgarians.
                  Just like that and "to the root" ?! And who then won the Volga Bulgaria in 2 years?
                  They are given as the number of Mongols in 150 and Bulgarians - 000
                  Yes, do not be shy, write 1 500 000 against 30 000. laughing There were as many as TWO tumens on the Kalka Tatar-Mongol, which is about 20. Taking into account the losses, it is good if Bulgaria reached 000 thousand. 15 Tatars against 15 Bulgars, this is roughly the correct assessment of forces. And so yes, 000 broke 30, this is of course overwhelmed ...
                  I don’t know Russian history so well
                  That's right, you don't know her from the word at all!
                  1. Hantengri 15 January 2020 19: 13 New
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                    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                    On Kalka, the Tatar-Mongol had as many as TWO tumens, which is about 20.

                    Greetings, Alexander hi! Minor correction: 2 reached Kalki shabby (!!!!)Tumen, which passed with battles from Khiva to the South Russian steppes. Those. already on Kalka there were 12-15 thousand of them against our 6-8 thousand. If the Bulgar put out 10-15 thousand - this would be quite enough to fight back.
            2. Mista_dj 16 January 2020 21: 28 New
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              A rare and true assessment of the state of affairs.
              Tired of the thesis of the school curriculum that Russia saved Europe and fought with the invaders. The most faithful vassal was! He regularly paid tribute and supplied resources ...
              1. Trilobite Master 17 January 2020 10: 24 New
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                Quote: Mista_Dj
                The most faithful vassal was! He regularly paid tribute and supplied resources ...

                In my opinion, you from one extreme hit the other.
                It will be more correct
                "... was a privileged vassal on a special position" and "the princes were reluctant to fulfill their vassal obligations, nevertheless trying not to bring the matter to conflict and open confrontation with the overlord."
        2. Sentinel-vs 14 January 2020 09: 12 New
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          The internal squabbles between the khans interfered no less than the resistance of the conquered peoples.
      2. Hantengri 14 January 2020 13: 14 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        But Europe, as always in its repertoire, did not appreciate the feat of Russia, and even to the noise decided to tear off a piece from Russia in the form of Pskov and Novgorod. They were jackals, jackals remained, wolves shameful!

        But should have? Homo homini lupus est! If you don’t prune your neighbor today, then the far one will prune you tomorrow. Or you, along with the distant one, slaughter the neighbor, and a little later, with the undercut neighbor, you go to cut the far one, and then these two will unite against you, and then, all of you, the three of you, will try to “kill” the fourth one, and then , again, each other ... Nothing personal - just politics.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        and even under the guise of a decision from Russia decided to tear a piece in the form of Pskov and Novgorod. They were jackals, jackals remained, wolves shameful!

        Fortunately, the Russian princes also did not see anything shameful or immoral in the possibility, to the disguise, of “scumbling” their weakened neighbor and “jackal” no worse than their European and other brothers.
        But do not worry, in 1/6 of the land, Russia gathered exclusively with the help of God's word and kindness! laughing
        1. Alexander Suvorov 14 January 2020 13: 30 New
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          HanTengri (Igor)
          Fortunately, the Russian princes also did not see anything shameful or immoral in the possibility, to the disguise, of “scumbling” their weakened neighbor and “jackal” no worse than their European and other brothers.
          Igor, my respect! hi Do I argue? Ivan Kalita alone was worth it. About the acquisitions of Ivan III and his grandson Grozny, I generally said nothing. And how much we screwed under Katya.
          How much did you lose? Already terribly recall: Alaska, Finland, Poland, Koenigsberg, and not to mention the former Soviet republics.
          But do not worry, in 1/6 of the land, Russia gathered exclusively with the help of God's word and kindness! laughing
          I didn’t doubt it at all ... laughing
          In fairness, it should be noted that from 1/6, unfortunately, 1/9 remained. request
        2. Alf
          Alf 14 January 2020 19: 39 New
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          Quote: HanTengri
          But do not worry, in 1/6 of the land, Russia gathered exclusively with the help of God's word and kindness!

          God's word is especially significant when an extended squad is standing nearby. laughing
          1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 19: 43 New
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            With a vigorous loaf! drinks
          2. Ingvar 72 15 January 2020 08: 37 New
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            Quote: Alf
            God's word is especially significant when an extended squad is standing nearby.

            Colt and a good word are better than just a good word. good
      3. karabass 14 January 2020 20: 24 New
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        In the Mongolian troops sent to Poland and Hungary, the Mongols held positions no lower than one thousandth, ordinary soldiers were mostly just conquered Russians and Cheremis (Mordovians), and the latter rebelled due to heavy losses and deserted. The Russians remained faithful to the oath and suffered huge losses - almost all were killed in Hungary. Three thousand Mongols had to end the battle (guard) - they were able to win, but also suffered such losses, and were so stunned that there was no more invasion of Europe for twenty years and did not think.
        The killed Russians were abandoned, (then Europeans buried them), they placed Orthodox crosses on the graves. The killed Mongols were brought to the lower Volga and buried there with honors, like heroes (there was a separate cemetery), to find this cemetery is still the blue dream of all Astrakhan archaeologists
        1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 20: 50 New
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          Quote: karabass
          In the Mongolian troops sent to Poland and Hungary, the Mongols held positions no lower than one thousandth, simple soldiers were mainly just conquered Russians and Cheremis (Mordvinians)

          Well, where do you get this from? Who blew such nonsense into your ears, have you really come up with? On the basis of which at least such assumptions can be made, am I not talking about any reinforcement of them? With the same success and with the same degree of certainty, I can say that on the side of the Mongols, Arabs or Jews fought, or both hand in hand.
          1. karabass 14 January 2020 21: 13 New
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            I did not expect such ignorance of the Horde history from you. Although you may not be strong in it. These conclusions are drawn precisely on the basis of preserved historical documents from several independent sources.
            ps read that the burial place of Russian soldiers from the Mongolian troops is known, even preserved. Cheremis killed their Mongol commander, before defecting his name, too, I know, unfortunately I do not remember him. If you have a desire - please find out for yourself
            1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 21: 41 New
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              Quote: karabass
              These conclusions are drawn precisely on the basis of preserved historical documents from several independent sources.

              That's why I ask that I always considered myself not badly informed about this period, including on the subject of documents and sources, but I hear this for the first time. I saw something like this only, in my opinion, about fifteen or more years ago at Bushkov's (“The Ghost of the Golden Horde” or something like that), which somehow was not accepted as authority in this area.
              It is known that after the Mongols captured Kiev, they were captured by the voivode Dmitry, who commanded the defense. During the assault, he was wounded and captured, after which he accompanied Batu during the invasion of Europe, and even seemed to give him some advice. It's all.
              No other information about the presence in the Mongolian army of the sample of 1240-43. there are no Russian contingents, and where would Russian soldiers come from when the bulk of them remained near Kolomna and the City, and the remaining princes were kept with them as the greatest value? You can’t put peasants on horses and you won’t make them fight. But I did not hear about the collaborating princes at that time, unless the so-called “Bolkhov princes”, about whom nothing is known and who seem to provide Batu with food, but not a military contingent ... But their squads in any case were so small that their combined forces were unlikely to exceed several hundred mounted warriors. On the scale of the Mongolian army, it’s just a drop in the bucket.
              So please bother, nevertheless, to recall the sources of your knowledge. I will tell you a secret, I’m simply convinced that they lie outside the plane of historical science and, in fact, are the fruit of the invention of another freak from a history like Fomenko.
              Gumilyov, who for me, however, also does not have authority in the field of history, as far as I remember, did not allow such bold theories. Or did you really develop his works so creatively?
              1. karabass 14 January 2020 22: 13 New
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                I do not like Fomenko for a lie; I don’t accept an alternative story. I consider Gumilev a dreamer.
                I'll try in a hurry, without links to documents (this is serious work)
                There are European documents (preserved) of that time (I can’t give you such an offhand link) It says that the Mongols who died in the battle were Orthodox, were buried there and there in the Orthodox rite, Orthodox crosses were placed! The Mongols never abandoned their dead; they drove the deceased to their native nomads. for these Mongols, the native Volga was already the lower Volga. There are historical documents of monks - Franciscans, and that near Saray-Batu there was a whole cemetery of the Mongols who died in Hungary, and it was guarded. the Mongolian epic, recorded by the Jurchen and ancient Uyghur inscriptions, is preserved that it was not known in the battle in Hungary or maybe in Poland, but it was on this campaign that the Mongols were so hard that they even had the thought of running, but they told themselves : - recall the words of Genghis Khan - "if Tumen runs, execute all the Mongols" and they, encouraged by the name of Genghis Khan, have won. The Mordvin epic about a certain daughter of the Mordvin prince (I don’t remember the name unfortunately) survived the uprising and avenged the father of the deceased in this campaign and fighting on the side of the Mongols that the Mongols drove them to certain death in the forefront When the Cheremis refused to fight further because huge losses, the Mongols allegedly told them - give your weapons to the Russians and leave when they gave them, tried to kill them, but some of them managed to break through to their homeland, (apparently not everyone gave it away) united around their daughter and badly battered the Mongols
                In general, something like that
                1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 22: 27 New
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                  Still, at least the name of the source would be good. I really haven’t come across anything of the kind in any serious work, so let me continue to be extremely skeptical about the information you transmitted. If this information came from reliable sources, or at least from sources worthy of attention, some modern researchers would certainly pay attention to them and verify their authenticity, or at least mention them in their works, especially since this information fundamentally revise the basic principles of relations between the Mongols and Russia in the initial stage. No one would consciously pass by such a discovery.
                2. Dzungar 18 January 2020 18: 06 New
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                  remember the words of Genghis Khan - "if Tumen runs - execute all the Mongols"
                  Shaw, seriously ... ???? I heard it myself ......? Just like that "of all the Mongols" ... ???
                  I'll try in a hurry, without links to documents (this is serious work)
                  There are European documents (preserved) of that time (I can’t give links so offhand)
                  Yes, yes, I can’t .... I don’t remember ...
                3. cradle 10 February 2020 09: 27 New
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                  There are European documents (preserved) of that time (I can’t give links so offhand).
                  I can’t, then I'm lying.
                  It says that the Mongols who died in the battle were Orthodox, were buried there and there in the Orthodox rite, Orthodox crosses were placed!
                  Where are they?
                  There is no time to disassemble this balcony.
                  1. karabass 10 February 2020 14: 35 New
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                    Ghent city archive Belgium link I don’t remember
              2. Sergey79 14 January 2020 22: 30 New
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                But the question always worries me .... Why does the official history have such conclusions? That, as in that joke, is both illegal and not logical ...
                1. Sergey79 14 January 2020 22: 59 New
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                  In the Voronezh region, the mammoth was eaten and housing with its bones was built 40 thousand years ago (according to our estimates, and according to the American 43 thousand), but we are told that a MAN came from Africa 20 thousand years ago. Scythians lived, according to official history, only in the Crimea (the mounds of Kyzyl are not noticeable). The Mongol invasion (Mughals?) Completely raises continuous questions ... You read the Arab sources on Tizengauzen and ask the question: "why are you making such conclusions ?!" You look at the chronology of Lurie ... And, for some reason, OTHER conclusions come to mind again ... YOU write that the person who served the Mongols was a little “that”, but I have more faith in witnessing events (Marco Polo). YOU "mirror rattles" found in Siberia have already "tagged" Indian ... Although there is debate. YOU, representatives of official history, are doing VERY ugly.
                  1. Hantengri 17 January 2020 00: 24 New
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                    Quote: Sergey79

                    In the Voronezh region, the mammoth was eaten and housing with its bones was built 40 thousand years ago (according to our estimates, and according to the American 43 thousand), but we are told that a MAN came from Africa 20 thousand years ago.

                    1. Who told you that?
                    2. What kind of person? Homo ... ???
                    Do not, so pathetic, flaunt your own ignorance!
                  2. nickname7 18 January 2020 14: 41 New
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                    we are told that a MAN came from Africa 20 thousand years ago


                    What voices in your head tell you is not clear, but you can watch Wikipedia and find out the official version of the story:
                    About 80-100 thousand years ago, the resettlement of the ancestral population of Homo sapiens from Africa began.
                    1. cradle 12 February 2020 04: 19 New
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                      only, for some reason, oats, barley, flax, rye are endemic to the northern latitudes ... And so, yes, from Africa. Yeah ....
              3. stroitel 15 January 2020 11: 58 New
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                I would like to ask, as a specialist. On the engraving in the article (which is the first), on the right is the army of Henry, on the left is the Mongols. And why does the Mongol on the banner have the face of a bearded man in a crown? The question is not ironic. Just wondering did the Mongols have such banners?
                1. Trilobite Master 15 January 2020 12: 51 New
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                  Quote: stroitel
                  did the mongols have such banners?

                  As far as I know, they did not have banners at all, there were bunchuk.
                  Quote: stroitel
                  on the banner is the face of a bearded man in a crown

                  XIV century miniature I don’t know when exactly it was created, where and by whom, therefore I can only express my own assumptions.
                  In the XIV century. the Mongol empire no longer existed, Europe dealt with the Golden Horde, mainly with that part of it, which was called Russia. There were no living eyewitnesses of the battle of Legnica by this time, therefore, what kind of Mongols could have been judged by contemporaries - the Horde, to whom the Russians were well-known to them. The Russians at that time went into battle under the banner with the image of Christ in a crown of thorns. If you draw such a banner from the words of a tongue-tied warrior, it might well turn out something like what happened.
                  In general, creativity at that time - any, painting, literature, no difference - was a vigorous cocktail of ancient legends, biblical allusions and the author’s personal experience. For example, the helmets of imaginary Mongols in miniature are "Phrygian caps", in the European tradition it was customary to depict all sorts of biblical Philistines, that is, pagans.
                  Surely there is some kind of research devoted to this miniature or collection, which includes it, maybe it is even in Russian.
                  And more.
                  I do not have a historical education, history is my hobby, nothing more. What I am saying here is likely to cause only a smile from a real researcher. So do not call me a specialist and do not attribute my naive and amateurish reasoning to the community of historians. smile
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Modun 16 January 2020 03: 51 New
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                    "In the fourteenth century, the Mongol empire no longer existed." I didn’t read further
          2. Alex013 15 January 2020 13: 08 New
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            “This country beyond Tanaid [Mokshan] is very beautiful and has rivers and forests. To the north are huge forests in which two kinds of people live, namely moxel [moksha], who have no law, are pure pagans. They do not have a city, but they live in small huts in the forests. Their sovereign and most of the people were killed in Germany ”
            Guillaume de Rubuk, Flemish monk

            Cheremis is not Mordovians. Mari
          3. nickname7 18 January 2020 14: 34 New
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            Well, where do you get this

            The principle of the horde invasion was like the growth of a snowball, the conquered peoples were included in the horde, with the help of which the following were conquered and which were again included.
            1. Trilobite Master 18 January 2020 14: 43 New
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              Quote: nickname7
              The principle of the horde invasion was like the growth of a snowball

              Good comparison. But this lump grew only while rolling along the steppe. The mobilization resource of settled peoples is much less (you cannot put peasants on horses and you can’t make them fight), so the Mongols would not be able to make up for their losses. This is precisely the main reason for stopping the western campaign.
      4. Cry
        Cry 15 January 2020 16: 02 New
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        It was necessary not to fight, but to immediately pay tribute and open a direct road to Europe, paved with pies and araka every 40-50 km to Paris itself. Then the Mongol emperor would sit not in Beijing, but in Paris and Madrid, and instead of the Pope - the Dalai Lama. And then, you see, and the Mongols went to conquer America and there now would not be Trump, but the Mongol would rule.
    2. Vend 15 January 2020 10: 09 New
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      Funny and not a single comment from cranks with a squeal that there were not any Mongols! laughing
      1. cradle 12 February 2020 06: 45 New
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        here he was not any Mongols laughing Where are their graves in Russia? How to drive such a horde from Mongolia (?), Why is the Russian gene pool not spoiled (although Asian genes are prevailing - look at modern mestizos)?
    3. Usher 15 January 2020 15: 09 New
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      Quote: Mersi
      Europe would have been indescribable if Russia had not been in the rear of the Tatars!

      not the Tatars, but the Mongols, the Tatars then still tried to resist, it was those ancestors of the modern Tatars, and the Tatars who came with the Mongols, these are other Tatars, they are not Muslims, this is one of the Mongol-speaking tribes.
    4. Mista_dj 16 January 2020 12: 58 New
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      It was you who were misled at school.
      Russia at that time was an exemplary vassal of the Horde, regularly paid tribute, supplied resources and troops. Chat with historians specializing in this time frame.
      Alas, and ah.
      1. cradle 12 February 2020 06: 46 New
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        Or was she a horde?
  2. Sentinel-vs 14 January 2020 06: 26 New
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    Yes, and a serious one, capable of dragging a knight in chain mail, a horse, he did not need - unpretentious, but unpretentious Mongolian horses came up.

    However, in the first picture in the article, very healthy brandies are depicted under the Mongols.
    Here are photos of modern (relatively) Mongols on horseback. And in those days, selection was even at a more primitive level, IMHO.

    1. Mavrikiy 14 January 2020 07: 25 New
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      Quote: Sentinel-vs
      Yes, and a serious one, capable of dragging a knight in chain mail, a horse, he did not need - unpretentious, but unpretentious Mongolian horses came up.

      However, in the first picture in the article, very healthy brandies are depicted under the Mongols.
      .
      The first picture - a question for the artist - from the word "bad."
      Battle of Legnica in a miniature of the XNUMXth century. More interesting is the miniature, the Mongols - almost on the ass, compared with the knights. The knights do not look at the enemy, but at the viewer and seem to think how to escape. Background: On the banner of the Mongols, there is quite a shaggy bearded man in the crown, and in the ranks of the couple hesitated. Maybe our princes that planted.
      1. Usher 15 January 2020 15: 10 New
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        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Quote: Sentinel-vs
        Yes, and a serious one, capable of dragging a knight in chain mail, a horse, he did not need - unpretentious, but unpretentious Mongolian horses came up.

        However, in the first picture in the article, very healthy brandies are depicted under the Mongols.
        .
        The first picture - a question for the artist - from the word "bad."
        Battle of Legnica in a miniature of the XNUMXth century. More interesting is the miniature, the Mongols - almost on the ass, compared with the knights. The knights do not look at the enemy, but at the viewer and seem to think how to escape. Background: On the banner of the Mongols, there is quite a shaggy bearded man in the crown, and in the ranks of the couple hesitated. Maybe our princes that planted.

        Do you believe such caricatures? These Europeans were stupid like traffic jams, they didn’t go beyond their river. Only a few traveled fully.
    2. Maki Avellevich 14 January 2020 19: 39 New
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      Quote: Sentinel-vs
      However, in the first picture in the article, very healthy brandies are depicted under the Mongols.
      what do you want them to draw as it were, the enemy on horses with the height of some European dogs?
    3. Mista_dj 16 January 2020 13: 01 New
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      The fact is that you have never seen a Mongolian horse and a resident of Mongolia.
      On the screen, Bruce Lee looked quite himself, but in fact - was short, just put the movie camera lower.
      Put next to Aduu and our Donchak, or Orlovtsy - you will understand the difference.
      It's all about the angle, my friend)
      Aduu is exceptionally hardy, hooves such that it can run on nails.
      10 km at a gallop (!) To go under the saddle is not a question at all.
      Like a reindeer from under the snow, it picks grass, shaggy - does not feel frost.
      Terminator, not brandy.
      1. Sentinel-vs 16 January 2020 13: 33 New
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        Is Aduu a Mongolian horse? Those. are you talking about mongolian?
        Height at the withers 120-140 cm, weight 200 - 250 kg.
        Oryol trotter: Height 150-170 cm, weight 500-550 kg.
        If you put next to the destruction, the duck in general, the aspect ratio will be comical.
        In general, I was talking specifically about sizes, what did you refute me now?
        And yes, an interesting point, if the horse itself is only 200 kg, how much heavily armed war could it carry? Shorty in a bathrobe perhaps.
        1. Mista_dj 16 January 2020 21: 00 New
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          I wanted (not very skillfully) to voice the idea that in real life - the difference is even more comical.
          The middle Mongol is much smaller than the European warriors, the average aduu is generally no comparison with the European cavalry horse. Probably the "artist" deliberately demonized the Horde, portraying them as Schwarzeneggers on horses the size of Caterpillar.
        2. cradle 12 February 2020 06: 49 New
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          And yes, an interesting point, if the horse itself is only 200 kg, how much heavily armed war could it carry? Shorty in a bathrobe except that. [/ Quote]
          Or without a bathrobe?
      2. Sentinel-vs 16 January 2020 14: 12 New
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        And it’s just a logical conclusion - if, as you say, this terminator has so many undeniable advantages, why didn’t the cavalry armies of Europe use the Aduu later? The horse corps of Karl and Napoleon would fly, and then the Cossack hundreds of the First World War on Mongolian terminators.
        1. Mista_dj 16 January 2020 21: 11 New
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          It's hard for me to talk about this, I'm not Karl and not Platov.
          I believe that for the same reasons that did not allow mattresses to adopt the AK-47 instead of the M16, and why the whole world does not go on Merkava's "best tank in the world."
          Although, there is one more thought: our legs would have dragged along the ground)))
          1. cradle 12 February 2020 06: 50 New
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            Although, there is one more thought: our legs would have dragged along the ground))) [/ quote]
            Shorter stirrups and FSE laughing
  3. polar fox 14 January 2020 06: 45 New
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    in the picture there are "strange" bearded Mongols! at when the bears were like that among the Mongols?
    1. novel66 14 January 2020 07: 41 New
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      and they were ???? these artists painted what they saw !!!
      1. Blackmokona 14 January 2020 07: 48 New
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        It’s not a fact at all, usually those who sat in monasteries and didn’t see
        1. novel66 14 January 2020 07: 50 New
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          when they draw the unknown - miracles come out - and here it’s completely
          1. tlauicol 14 January 2020 07: 52 New
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            Quote: novel xnumx
            when they draw the unknown - miracles come out - and here it’s completely

            try to draw an unknown mythical animal - and you will see what happens.
            1. novel66 14 January 2020 07: 53 New
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              and in the pictures of a completely Slavic appearance, people, why did their draftsmen take
              1. tlauicol 14 January 2020 08: 01 New
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                Do not shoot the artist, he draws as he can. Central Asians, Japanese, Chinese Slavs did not draw.
                here is Julius Caesar and David Solomonich in front of you - are they alike?

                1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 08: 10 New
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                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  are Julius Caesar and David Solomonich - similar?

                  And with whom did they copy it?

                  1. tlauicol 14 January 2020 08: 16 New
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                    hardly medieval Frenchmen drew from the costume ball of the Romanovs or Yusupovs of 19-20 centuries. their kings and ladies :))
                    The lady of clubs, in particular, is Guinevere.
                    By the way, Caesar is that with Muslim symbols
                    1. bober1982 14 January 2020 11: 19 New
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                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Queen of clubs in particular is Guinevere

                      No, Queen of clubs, this is Grand Duchess Elizaveta Fedorovna Romanova, her image, from a playing deck dedicated to the 300th anniversary of the Romanov Dynasty
                      1. tlauicol 14 January 2020 12: 03 New
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                        Quote: bober1982
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Queen of clubs in particular is Guinevere

                        No, Queen of clubs, this is Grand Duchess Elizaveta Fedorovna Romanova, her image, from a playing deck dedicated to the 300th anniversary of the Romanov Dynasty

                        Well, if we talk about the 20th century. not about card suits in general. this deck is a remake of the times of the PMV
                      2. bober1982 14 January 2020 12: 14 New
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                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        this deck is a remake of the times of the PMV

                        Not only the PMV, this deck was popular throughout the Soviet period, the whole deck was “personal”, they somehow did not think about it (or did not know), but the most beloved Russian deck depicts real members of the imperial family.
                      3. tlauicol 14 January 2020 12: 59 New
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                        damned Romanovs! they not only rewrote the history of medieval Russia, medieval Europe (card kings and ladies from there), they also rewrote the history of the USSR am Swung to the sacred - to the cards! laughing
                      4. bober1982 14 January 2020 13: 03 New
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                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Swung to the sacred - to the cards!

                        Yes, it turns out amusing - it was decided, Vladimir Ilyich and Nadezhda Konstantinovna, to play the cards, and in the hands of the image of the damned Romanovs, it didn’t turn out Bolshevik.
                      5. tlauicol 14 January 2020 13: 05 New
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                        not otherwise - the machinations of the Vatican! Rus-Tartarians with dolboslavy played other cards! How long will historians fool the people, how long? angry
                      6. Alf
                        Alf 14 January 2020 19: 41 New
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                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        not otherwise - the machinations of the Vatican! Rus-Tartarians with dolboslavy played other cards! How long will historians fool the people, how long? angry

                        So, gentlemen, gamblers! Tie with cards, we're talking about the battle! laughing
                      7. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 21: 13 New
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                        Came bouncer casino! drinks
                    2. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 22: 53 New
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                      How long will historians fool the people, how long?

                      paraphrasing a sacred phrase (Muslim friends - no offense, joke! drinks ): there is no other historian except Samsonov and apologists for haplogroups, as his prophets! drinks guys, no offense ... after several articles I wanted to cry. request But .. nevertheless - in my memory for the first time 1000+ comments were typed ... no
                    3. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 23: 41 New
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                      guys, no offense ... after several articles I wanted to cry
                      "Laugh, clown, at the broken love" (C) crying tongue laughing
                    4. Pane Kohanku 15 January 2020 09: 12 New
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                      "Laugh, clown, at the broken love"

                      My voice isn’t enough to stretch Pajac’s aria laughing even drunk drinks with all desire, I can only parody Boris Moiseev. crying
                    5. Dude 15 January 2020 11: 58 New
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                      ... Payat's aria
                      Then, Canio’s aria wink
  • Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 09: 22 New
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    And with whom did they copy it?

    Vladimir, EMNIP, the far right in the upper row is Count Ignatiev? what The one that kept the "cashier" for the good of the motherland. drinks it will be necessary to organize with Anton a thread, and go to Elizavetino - the dowry of his first wife. what
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 09: 32 New
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      Quote: Pan Kohanku
      Vladimir, EMNIP, the far right in the upper row is Count Ignatiev?

      There the Englishman lurked, sort of.
      1. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 09: 41 New
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        There the Englishman lurked, sort of.

        Yes, not, like, stopudovo Ignatiev. drinks
      2. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 09: 46 New
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        Ah ... ah ... What is his saber like that?
      3. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 09: 48 New
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        Ah ... ah ... What is his saber like that?

        I guess - the Polish carabel? Or wait for Viktor Nikolaevich, and he will enlighten? wink
      4. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 09: 52 New
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        Polish sabers were categorically not recommended for our Cossacks. The rubbish is fragile. repeat The same Ignatieff seems to be mentioned. But not sure.
      5. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 09: 59 New
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        Polish sabers were categorically not recommended for our Cossacks.

        Yes, he is a Cossack in this outfit and does not look particularly! wink rather, on the gentry. But it’s interesting, though, this costume - whom did he designate? drinks
        Well, General Meyendorf is definitely the voivode! Hmm .. what did this outfit cost him? And what is he holding in his right hand? what
      6. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 02 New
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        Tybloko rested from a neighboring garden, and planted it on the ramrod. request
      7. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 03 New
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        Tybloko rested from a neighboring garden, and planted it on the ramrod.

        Well, this, excuse me, is some kind of general not at all! request although .. come to the ball with your snack (grilled apple) - more than noble! laughing
      8. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 05 New
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        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        some kind of general’s bad manners!

        And in his left hand what? What a dagger Basurmansky!
      9. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 10 New
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        And in his left hand what? What a dagger Basurmansky!

        well, the plaques on his chest look more like a props than a real defense. wink
      10. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 15 New
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        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        more like a props than a real defense.

        These are orders and medals. Not enough, then ...
        There was a Cossack somewhere in the distance. On the chest was a medal:
        “For courage”, “For victory”, “For a pleasant conversation”,
        “For scientific works”, “For the protection of the whole environment”,
        Two astronaut medals, the order of the player Warcraft,
        The symbol of the surrender of the TRP, "Passage TO"
        Club of pregnant women "Crane", Wardrobe of the recreation center "Gidravlik",
        In the right way!
      11. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 19 New
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        Club of pregnant women "Crane", Wardrobe of the recreation center "Gidravlik",
        In the right way!

        don’t push on the sore spot, Vladimir!stop laughing
        here at the holidays in Pechora were. On the border with Estonia, 20 km from Izborsk. The monastery is protected .. Cossacks! Well, at least without orders .. But with stripes. I did not ask what kind of troops they were from. But, in fact - I think this is something like a legalized chop. hi
      12. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 23 New
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        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        But, in fact - I think this is something like a legalized chop.

        Why is that? There are registered Cossacks, quite officially. And Yeltsin is a Cossack, and Putin, too. We have Cossacks, I remember that in the 90s they protected potatoes. Then they disappeared somewhere.
      13. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 28 New
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        Why is that? There are registered Cossacks, quite officially.

        enlighten, please, I am not in the subject of the word "completely." hi because he considered the closest place of residence of the Cossacks Don. Enlighten, otherwise I will continue to be mistaken! drinks
      14. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 33 New
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        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        Enlighten, otherwise I will continue to be mistaken

        Oh, Christmas tree winders ...
        In the mid-90s, Yeltsin issued a decree "On the Cossacks." Maybe I don’t remember well, but the registry Cossacks were equated with something like DND. laughing
      15. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 34 New
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        Maybe I don’t remember well, but the registry Cossacks were equated with something like DND.

        they reminded me more of the chop. Only with stripes, and in hats. wink
  • 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 10: 44 New
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    Together with potatoes?
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 10: 47 New
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    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Together with potatoes?

    Yes, oddly enough ... crying
  • Andy 14 January 2020 17: 49 New
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    you are ahead of me :)
  • 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 18: 32 New
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    Well, take it easy, it happens request drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 13: 54 New
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    And Yeltsin is a Cossack, and Putin, too.

    Yeah, then I, and Anton, and the Sea Cat (this one - especially!), and Phil and Bubalik at the same time - all with stripes! laughing drinks
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 17: 51 New
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    Quote: Andy
    with potatoes?

    Duc already wrote: "Yes!" Whistled potatoes, and wiped off somewhere.
  • 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 18: 35 New
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    "What I protect, I have it!"
  • Alf
    Alf 14 January 2020 19: 43 New
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    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    We have Cossacks, I remember that in the 90s they protected potatoes. Then they disappeared somewhere.

    Together with potatoes?
  • Alf
    Alf 14 January 2020 19: 43 New
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    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    Well, this, excuse me, is some kind of general not at all!

    But for free and with your snack!
  • Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 22: 48 New
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    But for free and with your snack!

    paraphrasing a famous phrase about girls - "General Meyendorf was so scary that he went on a date with his vodka and snack" wink drinks life hack! good
  • Mihaylov 14 January 2020 12: 37 New
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    Shamshir like ...
  • Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 13: 05 New
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    Shamshir like ...

    I was confused by the bend of the blade, at first I thought to sin on kilich. Wikipedia says that the carabel had a similar option. request
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 14: 42 New
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    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    Wikipedia says that the carabel had a similar option.

    Barmalei certainly had.
  • Chersky 14 January 2020 08: 12 New
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    You can’t say that here. Again accused of something terrible - such as disbelief in the invasion of shepherds from a distant steppe)))
    1. novel66 14 January 2020 08: 14 New
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      scared to say - but I don’t believe ...
      1. Chersky 14 January 2020 08: 15 New
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        So many do not believe. But it seems to me ... they quiet most)))
        1. novel66 14 January 2020 08: 16 New
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          well yeah no crazy no time
        2. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 09: 40 New
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          Quote: Chersky
          disbelief in the invasion of shepherds

          Quote: novel xnumx
          I don’t believe ...

          Quote: Chersky
          many do not believe.

          Well, yes, I believe, I don’t believe, there is such a game. laughing
          Do you believe in the law of conservation of energy?
          Some people surprise me: at first they say “history is not a science”, and then “I do not believe”. Objective reality on the side. Well, in general, your business. request
          However, I dare say that you are still not the majority of such "believing-unbelievers", which inspires some optimism when looking at the future.
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 08: 00 New
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    Quote: Tlauicol
    try to draw an unknown mythical animal - and you will see what happens.

    I would get a devil with horns and a ponytail. what
    1. tlauicol 14 January 2020 08: 04 New
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      so that you would not draw the unknown (dragon, spirit, eight-winged seven-piece) - all this is a bootet to have horns of a foot of a cloud foot, scales of the eyes of a tentacle - in general, what you know drinks
      1. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 08: 11 New
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        Bravo, Ivan! hi
    2. Golovan Jack 14 January 2020 08: 11 New
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      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: Tlauicol
      try to draw an unknown mythical animal - and you will see what happens.

      I would get a devil with horns and a ponytail. what

      Vladimir, why not a spherocone in a vacuum? You succeed so gloriously))))

      Do not run over even once, just a good feed from you))))
      1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 08: 14 New
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        Quote: Golovan Jack
        Vladimir, why not a spherocone in a vacuum?

        Nah ... I don’t know how to draw a horse. But the line with the horns is always welcome. By the way, I had a glass devil, as you push him on the cap, so he sprayed from the pipiska. winked
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          1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 08: 22 New
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            Quote: Golovan Jack
            This is a bird Hottabych defective caught, IMHO.

            No, it was in the second half of the 80s that such souvenirs did. Uncle brought me from somewhere. Cool devil was, I don’t remember where he disappeared. He had to fill in the head, and then pull the cap.
            1. Golovan Jack 14 January 2020 08: 28 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              He had to fill in the head

              It reminds me of someone ... not a collision, just - well, don’t substitute you so hard laughing
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 07: 53 New
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    Quote: novel xnumx
    miracles come out - and here it’s completely known

    There is a stupa with Baba Yaga
    Goes, wanders by itself;
    There King Kashchei wilts over gold;
    There is a Russian spirit ... there it smells of Rus!
    1. novel66 14 January 2020 07: 54 New
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      right there with her. darling and smacks of
    2. Golovan Jack 14 January 2020 08: 12 New
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      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      There is a stupa with Baba Yaga
      Goes, wanders by itself;
      There King Kashchei wilts over gold;

      Hut, hut, turn to the back of the forest, and to me - before!
      I thought, thought the hut ... and it hung. Completely request
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          1. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 10: 41 New
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            Only, "silly"
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        4. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 11: 39 New
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          "And from our window,
          Red Square is visible,
          We are in the telescope,
          Even eyebrows made out! "
          1. Catfish 14 January 2020 12: 27 New
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            Anton! What kind of hints? no
            We once prepared an exposition for the fortieth anniversary of the victory in the Second World War, a hall on the third floor. Among other things, they locked "Maxim" on a wheeled machine (where would it be without him). And since, as usual, there was an assault, they worked at night. They drove in GUM, stocked up with everything necessary and proceeded in sweat. And someone came up with the bright idea to put a machine gun on the windowsill, barrel on St. Basil. The window was opened and done. About twenty minutes later, our sergeant from the guard with square eyes rushes in: “Guys, what the hell are you?! Here the comrades in civilian clothes came and" asked "to remove!" Well, we rolled corporal port, but we still had to remove the machine gun ... But everything went without consequences, the Office also had enough men with a sense of humor. wink
            1. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 12: 54 New
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              Well, that is, it was all the same? !!! laughing
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  • tlauicol 14 January 2020 07: 50 New
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    Quote: novel xnumx
    and they were ???? these artists painted what they saw !!!

    these were painted centuries later, to be exact.
    those who saw the Mongols painted with blood in the snow
    1. novel66 14 January 2020 07: 51 New
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      funny .. but pathetic
  • Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 07: 49 New
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    Quote: polar fox
    at when the Mongols had such beards?

    As Boyan told, they drew it. wink
  • Usher 15 January 2020 15: 11 New
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    Quote: polar fox
    in the picture there are "strange" bearded Mongols! at when the bears were like that among the Mongols?

    you won’t believe the beards of the Mongol grow)))
  • Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 08: 59 New
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    I haven’t read any comments yet.
    According to the article.
    Somehow the article seemed to me somewhat simplified, superficial. As if written for middle school children. Moreover, I note that the facts selected by the author for the article, in general, correspond to the sources and the reasoning at the beginning of the article is also quite robust. In general, it’s a solid standings, although I would like more information about Polish domestic cuisine, for example, about the relationship between Henry the Pious (I’m more familiar with calling it that) and Konrad Mazowiecki. The latter possessed capabilities in the military sphere, at least comparable to Henry, but did not participate in the battle.
    The battle itself passed, as the author correctly noted, as they say, "on a thin" one and the hypothetical participation of Conrad’s troops in it was likely to tip the scales towards the Poles.
    Once again after the author, I note that not the main forces of the Mongols acted against Henry, but auxiliary - two tumens under the general command of Baydar Khan. The Polish prince gathered everything that is possible and could not resist. At least four tumens led by Batu acted against the Russians near Kolomna and the battle was much more fierce and difficult for the Mongols. Unfortunately, with the same result, unfortunately.
    1. 3x3zsave 14 January 2020 09: 42 New
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      The same impression. Timur can do better. For comparison, I read Brig's article on the same topic - much more informative and interesting. Conclusion: in the process of popularization, it is sometimes worthwhile to stop.
      1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 10: 05 New
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        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Timur can do better.

        I agree. In general, I like articles by this author. Maybe this time the calculation is made on us, on the commentators? Say, complement and deepen? smile
        1. Pane Kohanku 14 January 2020 10: 13 New
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          Maybe this time the calculation is made on us, on the commentators? Say, complement and deepen?

          well, at least a couple of people from those I know can definitely do it! hi
  • Laurus 14 January 2020 11: 08 New
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    Again the Mongols! The term “Tatar-Mongols” is not in the annals, it is neither a self-name nor an ethnonym for the peoples of Mongolia (Khalkha, Oirats). This is an artificial, cabinet term "Tatar-Mongols", first introduced by P. Naumov in 1823.
    Yes, the Golden Horde, the empire of the Turkic peoples, was. But the Mongols were dragged in for some reason only in the XNUMXth century. Contemporaries of Genghis Khan and Batu did not see any Mongols point blank. They saw the Tatars, who called all the Turks en masse, but for some reason the Mongols did not.
    Where are the graves of the Mongols outside of Mongolia? Where are the skulls of the Mongoloids? Hordes died hundreds and thousands, where they were buried? The Mongols did not burn their dead, but buried, so where are the mass graves of the Mongoloids who died in countless battles?
    Found quite a lot of mass graves dating back to the Batyev invasion. Here are just among them - not a single Mongol.
    1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 11: 40 New
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      Quote: Laurel
      Contemporaries of Genghis Khan and Batu did not see any Mongols point blank.

      You are sure? And what about the "book", called "Mongolyn nuuts tovchoo" (The Secret History of the Mongols) 1240. "editions"?
      1. Laurus 14 January 2020 12: 04 New
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        What year of publication? Chinese tales of the second half of the XIX century. Written in the form of a Mongolian text in Chinese hieroglyphic transcription, with parallel translation into Chinese - such transcriptions were made in Beijing to teach Chinese diplomats the Mongolian language. There are no editions before the XNUMXth century in nature.
        1. kalibr 14 January 2020 12: 29 New
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          Quote: Laurel
          What year of publication? Chinese tales of the second half of the XIX century. Written in the form of a Mongolian text in Chinese hieroglyphic transcription, with parallel translation into Chinese - such transcriptions were made in Beijing to teach Chinese diplomats the Mongolian language. There are no editions before the XNUMXth century in nature.

          Here was my article on Chinese sources reporting on the Mongols. Look, if you haven’t come across it ...
    2. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 11: 56 New
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      Quote: Laurel
      Contemporaries of Genghis Khan and Batu did not see any Mongols point blank

      Seen it.
      I don’t remember now, but either Plano Carpini or Guillaume de Rubruk, one of them (or maybe both together) wrote that the Tatars themselves called moals.
      In Russian sources, however, later, there is the concept of "Mungal steppes."
      Quote: Laurel
      burial of the Mongols

      Take an interest in the funeral rite of the Mongols. In short - dig deeper into the ground and level, mask, hide, so that no one would find.
      Quote: Laurel
      Found quite a lot of mass graves dating back to the Batyev invasion.

      Really enough. But these are sanitary burials made after the conquerors left the conquered peoples. In them there are no corpses of conquerors themselves. Apparently, the Mongols buried their own, separately and according to their rite, in uninhabited places, carefully hiding the burial place.
      1. Laurus 14 January 2020 13: 05 New
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        Stop shaming Carpini! Archbishop Plano Giovanni Carpini never wrote about any Mongols. He wrote the famous "Journey to the Tatars"! To the Tatars, not the Mongols! For the Mongols in his journey Karpini never found.
        As for de Rubruk, his opuses cannot be taken seriously, otherwise you will have to believe that his Mongols sewed clothes from mouse skins, ate and excrement, never washed or washed clothes, and their women gave birth while standing.
        As for the corpses of mythical Mongols, such "explanations" are more like excuses for why their graves were never found. They said they hid everyone so that they still haven’t found a single one, yeah.
        The Golden Horde cities of Kazan and Astrakhan are still standing. And yet there is a lot of Mongolian in them?
        1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 13: 37 New
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          Quote: Laurel
          Stop shaming Carpini!

          Have you even read it? At least mastered the full name of his work? Chapter Five, “On the Beginning of the Power of the Tatars,” at least a couple of first paragraphs?
          I recommend:
          http://www.hist.msu.ru/ER/Etext/carpini.htm
          Spend time, maybe something clears up in my head ... request
          1. Laurus 15 January 2020 12: 30 New
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            The full name of his work: "JOHANNES DE PLANO CARPINI LIBELLUS HISTORICUS IOANNIS DE PLANO CARPINI, qui missus est Legatus ad Tartaros anno Domini 1246. ab Innocentio quarto Pontifice maximo."
            It seems to me alone that there is not a word about the Mongols there?
            In the charlatan translation, following your link: "The history of the Mongols begins, which we call the Tatars."
            Karpini has "Incipit Prologus in librum Tartarorum". Oh, again there are no Mongols.
            In the charlatan translation, the last phrase is "The history of the Mongols, whom we call the Tatars, is finished."
            And Karpini’s last phrase is “Est etiam hoc sciendum, quod multi in exercitu eorum sunt, qui si viderent tempus, et haberent fiduciam, quod nostri non occiderent eos, ex omni parte exercitus, sicut ipsimet nobis dixerunt, pugnarent cum eis, facerent ipsis, quam alii, qui sunt eorum aduersarii manifesti. "
            Mongols, Mongols and other braziers appeared in translations only in the XNUMXth century, already after the charlatans invented the invasion of half-wild nomadic shepherds.
            Take your time and check out the Latin version, which Carpini wrote. Even if you don’t know Latin (of which I am sure), even a simple knowledge of the letters of the Latin alphabet will allow you to establish that Karpini did not write about any barbecue.
            1. Trilobite Master 15 January 2020 13: 17 New
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              Well, translate then you, since you know Latin so well ... smile
              Chapter Five.
              5. De ipsorum Imperio.
              Dicto de eorum consuetudinibus, dicendum est de eorum imperio. Et primo de ipsius principio. Secundo de principibus eius. Tertio de dominio Imperatoris et principum. Terra quadam est in partibus Orientis, de qua dictum est supra, qua Mongol nominatur. Hac terra quondam quatuor populos habuit. Et vnus Yeka Mongol, id est, magni Mongali vocabatur Secundus Sumongol, id est Aquatici Mongali. Ipsi autem seipsos Tartaros appellabant, a quodam fluuio, qui currit per terram eorum, qui Tartar nominatur Allius appellatur Merkat, quartus Metrit. Hii populi omnes vnam formam personarum, et vnam linguam habebant: quamuis inter se per principes et prouincias essent diuisi.

              Good luck.
              smile
    3. kalibr 14 January 2020 12: 27 New
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      From the monks of the Franciscans, the Persian chronicler Rashid al-Din, and other contemporaries of the Mongol invasion, descriptions of the organization of the Mongol burial were received. Burial in the Mongol tradition is shrouded in mystery and mysticism. Unlike other steppes, the Mongols of the time of the invasion never created burial mounds. The burial place was sacred, so the Mongols buried their fellow tribesmen in great secret, in deep holes. According to contemporaries, the corpse of a dead or killed Mongol could have been tinkering with it for months. Often the sod was removed over the grave, and after the funeral returned to the place. That there was no grave hill, the burial place was trampled down by horses. According to legend, a herd of 10.000 horses was used during the funeral of Genghis Khan. Imaginary graves were created (to divert the eyes of enemies and evil spirits). Together with a noble Mongol, his war horse with a saddle was buried, weapons, gold, silver and all that could be useful to the deceased in another world were put in the grave. Often, along with the deceased, his beloved slave, servants and wives were buried. The ritual horse was eaten by the tribesmen, the horse's bones were burned, and his skin was stuffed with straw and exhibited in an elevated place. According to the testimony of the Franciscan messengers, the Mongols tried to take their dead to Mongolia and Altai and secretly bury them in the steppes at their birthplace. Subsequently, when the Mongols began to consider the occupied land as their own, burials began to appear on the occupied territory (for example, the burial of a noble Mongolian noon near the village of Olen-Kolodez, Voronezh Region). The Mongols believed that the desecration of the grave means the victory of the enemy over the entire clan, which deprives the descendants of the strength of his ancestors. A stranger approaching the grave was killed
      1. Laurus 14 January 2020 13: 17 New
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        After major battles, there were thousands of corpses. Were they all taken with them for months or taken to Mongolia? Not seriously? In addition to major battles, there were losses in minor skirmishes, there were deaths from illnesses and unsanitary conditions, as during military campaigns it was everywhere. Yes, then these mythical Mongols would not have far gone from Mongolia - all the time they would have gone to the funeral. I remind you that this is not about a lost tribe, but about a huge army that has gone fantastic distances with constant battles.
        As for the “Deer-Well” burial ground, nothing Mongolian was found there. From the word "completely." Here is a detailed description of the graves: https://kitabhona.org.ua/lib_arh/olenkolodec.html
        You can, of course, pull the owl onto the globe and declare it Mongolian, only the owl will burst or the globe will crack.
        1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 13: 33 New
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          Quote: Laurel
          As for the “Deer-Well” burial ground, nothing Mongolian was found there. From the word "completely." Here is a detailed description of the graves: https://kitabhona.org.ua/lib_arh/olenkolodec.html
          You can, of course, pull the owl onto the globe and declare it Mongolian, only the owl will burst or the globe will crack.

          Efimov K. Yu. Has a different opinion:
          Features of the funeral rite do not give reason to doubt their belonging to the nomadic Golden Horde aristocracy, and their burial near the mouth of the Voronezh River indicates the existence of nomads subject to them in the immediate vicinity. It was customary to bury people of such a high rank in their clan possessions [13, p. 182].
          https://kitabhona.org.ua/lib_arh/olenkolodec.html
          1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 18: 07 New
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            Quote: HanTengri
            Efimov K. Yu. Has a different opinion:

            Is this a swimmer or something?
            1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 18: 55 New
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              Efimov K. Yu. The Golden Horde burials from the “Deer-Well” burial ground is an article from the link given by the Lavra.
              1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 19: 04 New
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                Quote: HanTengri
                Efimov

                Ah, I messed up with Efremov, an English spy ...
                1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 19: 20 New
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                  Yes, it’s ... It’s good that I am interested in sports only in quality: throwing rubbish, clothes and mountains into the backpack for 5-7 days!
                  1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 19: 23 New
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                    Quote: HanTengri
                    throw in a backpack grub, clothes and mountains for 5-7 days!

                    And there it is ... Cosmic rays ... Well, Dyatlov was not allowed after all ...
                    1. Hantengri 14 January 2020 19: 28 New
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                      Bullshit! The main thing C2H5OH not to forget!
                      1. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 19: 32 New
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                        Quote: HanTengri
                        The main thing C2H5OH not to forget!

                        Heh I somehow scratched my turnip in techie, but what is it? laughing
                      2. Hantengri 14 January 2020 19: 35 New
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                        Mountains without vodka - money down the drain!
                      3. Mordvin 3 14 January 2020 19: 46 New
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                        Quote: HanTengri
                        Mountains without vodka - money down the drain!

                        Somehow I dragged six cans of beer. That was a joke. The patients stopped me, I gave them a can of beer. winked
      2. Laurus 15 January 2020 11: 30 New
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        Where does Efimov even have a word about MONGOLS? I see that he writes about the "nomadic Golden Horde aristocracy" or my eyes are deceiving me?
    4. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 20: 12 New
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      Quote: Laurel
      You can, of course, pull an owl on a globe and declare it Mongolian.

      So I would not even try. The rite does not correspond to the well-known Mongolian rites, the burial equipment dates from the end of the XIII - the beginning of the XIV century, the bones have not been preserved ... Why pull it on, and, most importantly, why?
      Researchers now agree that there were only about 10% of the ethnic Mongols in the Batu army, mainly leaders and "officers." The rest is a hodgepodge of conquered peoples. By the end of the XIII century. the Mongol elite of the Jochi ulus actively assimilated with the local Türks, adopting, in particular, their customs and language, entering into mixed marriages, etc. Already at the end of the XIII century. Jochi's ulus separated from the empire, becoming the Horde at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. Horde accepts Islam. Actually Mongolian by this time in the Horde and there was nothing. I think that if near Voronezh they found a grave of such a period with inventory and bones that could be strictly identified as Mongolian, this would just be like a revolution in history. And then I would have to rack my brains - where could it come from. And so everything is correct, as it should be.
      And, by the way, the fact that they did not find purely Mongolian burials on the territory of Russia, they cannot be found on the territory of Mongolia itself either. You will not begin to conclude from this that they are immortal elves, or that there have never been any Mongols in Mongolia either ...
  • ddmm09 14 January 2020 19: 19 New
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    kalibr, here 100 years have not passed, and the history of WWII has already been turned over a hundred rows. And you want to enlighten someone in the moss-covered history of the Mongols. You will not read foreign sources about the Second World War, for the same reason it makes no sense to read foreign authors about some Mongols who enslaved us.
    1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 20: 33 New
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      Quote: ddmm09
      WWII history has already been turned over a hundred rows

      You confuse scientists and pseudo-scientists. Some are trying to establish the truth, while others are trying to promote their own fantasies for the sake of political conditions. Most people are used to listening to the latter, calling them “historians” for some reason, although they certainly are not. It is impossible to twist history as well as twist physics, fortunately.
      In the West there are competent and objective historians, including those on Russian subjects, for example, David Glanz on the Second World War, John Fennel or Erkehard Klug on the Middle Ages. These are those whose works I myself read. Their understanding of history does not depend on politics; their works can and should be studied.
      Instead, you are hawking what the media and other Internet are presented to you in the news and various journalistic platforms, and on the basis of the slag you make, you knowingly make incorrect conclusions.
    2. kalibr 15 January 2020 09: 48 New
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      Quote: ddmm09
      You will not read foreign sources about the Second World War, for the same reason it makes no sense to read foreign authors about some Mongols who enslaved us.

      Why so? And I just read a lot ... A list of read foreign sources / studies is in my books. And more...
  • karabass 14 January 2020 22: 23 New
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    There are skeletons of the Mongoloids too! Slightly less than 10% of the total number of investigated graves in the territory of the former Golden Horde. there is a PUBLISHED dissertation - "the funeral rite in the Golden Horde" read. By the way, that even skeletons of Negroids were excavated surprisingly!
  • Chersky 14 January 2020 13: 02 New
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    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Objective reality on the side.

    Objective reality??? Do not tell my slippers)))
    1. Trilobite Master 14 January 2020 13: 29 New
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      Quote: Chersky
      Do not tell my slippers)))

      If your slippers were able to laugh, they would have burst from your own utterances. So you can not worry about them, their sense of humor is apparently absent.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Doliva63 14 January 2020 17: 08 New
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    Quote: Sentinel-vs
    The internal squabbles between the khans interfered no less than the resistance of the conquered peoples.

    Honestly, I’m not sure that the conquered peoples noticed this).
  • Fishery 14 January 2020 21: 59 New
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    in short) the knights prepared for a long time, some put on two chain mails, but chopped a part, then the retreat, smoke and surroundings in the swamp, and the discovery that the Mongols also had heavy cavalry.
  • Sergey79 14 January 2020 23: 11 New
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    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Objective reality on the side. Well, in general, your business.

    And where do you see "objective reality"? Hello.
  • Free wind 14 January 2020 23: 23 New
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    It is disgusting that the Russians rebelled, rebelled against the Tatars, but they were killed and suppressed by the Russian princes with their squads .......... why do we hate each other so much?
    1. Laurus 15 January 2020 12: 41 New
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      Because feudalism. The concept of "Russian people" did not exist. Kiev for the Ryazan were exactly the same strangers as the Tatars. There were no Russian princes, there were the princes of Galicia-Volyn, Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod and many others. And the inhabitants of the principalities considered themselves not Russian, but Vladimir, Galicians or Novgorod. This is normal for that time and was everywhere in the West and East.
  • Edward Vashchenko 15 January 2020 08: 56 New
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    Good article, thanks!
  • taas 15 January 2020 10: 37 New
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    Another advantage of the Mongols against Europe (which, of course, included Russia)


    Interestingly, on April 5, 1242 (exactly one year after Legnica), a historical battle for Russia took place on Lake Peipsi.
    Alexander Nevsky with a squad captured Pskov belonging to the Germans then and moved on to the Order. After the defeat of advanced Russian troops on the lands of the Order, the main forces retreated to the lake, where the battle took place.
    The Teutons (the Livonian Order) were sorely lacking knights and foot professional landxnechts to conquer Pskov.
    Where did the Order lose its knights? Is it not under Legnica?
  • Laurus 15 January 2020 11: 38 New
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    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Researchers now agree that there were only about 10% of the ethnic Mongols in the Batu army, mainly leaders and "officers." The rest is a hodgepodge of conquered peoples.

    And what remains for them, if there are no traces of the Mongols on the lands through which the Golden Horde passed, from the word "completely." So they carry some miserable babble about the leaders. Although the question immediately arises as to how a handful of "Mongol leaders" conquered the more developed and much more numerous nations, far from peaceful. It is high time to admit that the bike about how a handful of backward nomadic shepherds from backward and sparsely populated Mongolia conquered the galaxy - no more than a bike. True, then "scientific" works and monographs will go into the furnace, academic degrees and titles will fly off, and historians will never agree to this.
    1. Usher 15 January 2020 15: 15 New
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      Quote: Laurel
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Researchers now agree that there were only about 10% of the ethnic Mongols in the Batu army, mainly leaders and "officers." The rest is a hodgepodge of conquered peoples.

      And what remains for them, if there are no traces of the Mongols on the lands through which the Golden Horde passed, from the word "completely." So they carry some miserable babble about the leaders. Although the question immediately arises as to how a handful of "Mongol leaders" conquered the more developed and much more numerous nations, far from peaceful. It is high time to admit that the bike about how a handful of backward nomadic shepherds from backward and sparsely populated Mongolia conquered the galaxy - no more than a bike. True, then "scientific" works and monographs will go into the furnace, academic degrees and titles will fly off, and historians will never agree to this.

      the bike is you, justify your vyser normally. the first troops were 100% Mongolian, and they did not go to LIVE on new land, but to kill and rob. There are thousands of evidence for this, in many countries, and not your vysers "tales" who are you yourself? Historian, archaeologist? You are a Fomenkov hamster.
      1. Laurus 15 January 2020 17: 03 New
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        Clown, learn to talk to begin with, and then demand justification. And with such a boorish statement of the question, you can only get an invitation to an erotic foot trip and if it weren’t for the strict rules of the forum, I would more specifically explain who you are, where you should go and where to put your opinion.
  • SKR-1135 15 January 2020 13: 37 New
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    Ha! Poles. Now, if the ancient Ukrainians, who had repeatedly defeated the Persians and terrified Caesar's legions, stood in the way of the Mongols. Joke.
    In general, of course, Russia greatly undermined the strength of the nomads.
  • Usher 15 January 2020 15: 12 New
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    Hamsters Fomenovoda again rave in komentnts)))
    1. Laurus 15 January 2020 17: 05 New
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      In the whole topic, the only raging animal is you.
  • Molot1979 15 January 2020 15: 20 New
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    Asians in pure Polish shouting "Save yourself!"? The original excuse.
    1. alexey alexeyev_2 31 January 2020 10: 11 New
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      In fact, then there was no Polish language. Polish began to form after the plague of the 14th century and the subsequent famine and the scurvy epidemic. However, scurvy and plague significantly changed the phonetic map of Europe. The language of communication in Europe was Rustico romano
  • Mista_dj 16 January 2020 21: 34 New
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    Quote: Keyser Soze
    They are given as the number of Mongols in 150 and the Bulgarians - 000, but this is unlikely.

    This nonsense is akin to the fact that a nonsense from the Luftwaffe in WWII scribbled in her reports: not having time to take off - 16 downed Red Army airplanes! 6 combat per day! In each departure - 11 air battles and 6 sexual acts with Pamela Anderson!
    So what!? Paper - everything will endure ...
  • alexey alexeyev_2 31 January 2020 08: 31 New
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    What does the author smoke? With each published opus I learn more and more about the genius of the Mongols .. It turns out they were the first to use chemical warfare agents. And they probably had aircraft .. I wonder how they found the way to Europe? It seems they didn’t leave a single card after themselves .. Maybe it’s enough to humble ourselves and write such a magnificent story to these smelly and unwashed nomads
    1. Modun 21 February 2020 03: 04 New
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      You wash your armpits first
      1. Modun 21 February 2020 20: 41 New
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        You find the way to your wife
    2. Modun 21 February 2020 20: 34 New
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      I advise you to see all the Ivanushki and Kazakhs who love to re-write history. no martial art, but right there as a mongrel barks
    3. Modun 21 February 2020 20: 40 New
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      You honor your Yanchevetsky.
  • Modun 21 February 2020 20: 24 New
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    Genghis Khan, Manstein and Corporal Zhukov next to them ... And above them all
  • Banet vat 5 March 2020 17: 04 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    That's for sure. If it had not been for Ryazan, Vladimir, City, Kiev, Kozelsk and other Russian cities, the Mongols would have walked all over Europe with fire and a sword.
    But Europe, as always in its repertoire, did not appreciate the feat of Russia, and even to the noise decided to tear off a piece from Russia in the form of Pskov and Novgorod. They were jackals, jackals remained, wolves shameful!


    Do you have a time machine and you interviewed everyone in that Europe? How should have been evaluated? Europe at that time was a mess of small feudal possessions, there are no Internet. Everyone is at war with each other. I don’t think that the inhabitants of Bavaria, for example, were concerned about Kozelsk, and that they were generally aware of the existence of such a city. I do not beg the feat of those inhabitants of Russia that became an involuntary barrier on the way of the Mongols, and the book of Yan “Towards the Last Sea” was one of my favorite in childhood. But also to wait for some thanks and from whom again? From hundreds of variegated barons, counts and dukes? And how should this gratitude be expressed? Monument to the sky? Religious procession, or bag of thalers?
    And did the ancestors die to death for gratitude, or because it was so necessary? Here it is.
  • Ramsi bolton 31 March 2020 11: 08 New
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    And here in general Russia. She did not show any serious resistance. The only country that has shown serious resistance is Volga Bulgaria. It took 7 trips to conquer it. Moreover, in terms of population, it is 2-3 times inferior to Russia. And on the territory even more.
    And Russian princes, instead of supporting neighbors, began predatory campaigns on the outskirts of Bulgaria. Bashkirs fought at all in the Mongol army. And they gave the Mongols to carry out aggression from their territory.
    Both Russian and Bashkirs greed was very expensive.