Defense News: Turkey moves to Russian arms standards

The unwillingness of the West to transfer to Turkey the most important technologies necessary to create its own air defense forces the NATO ally to switch to Russian weapons systems, in particular, relying on the promising S-500 anti-aircraft missile platform. This opinion was voiced by Defense News.

Since the 2000s, Turkey has been trying to create its own long-range air defense system, but no progress has been made on this path. In October 2019, Hisar-A successfully completed field trials, working on targets at low altitudes. The start of its serial deliveries is scheduled for 2021. The development of Hisar-O with an average range of fire. It is expected that he will enter service in 2022. However, Turkey needs more long-range weapons of destruction.

According to Defense News, despite Ankara’s interest in Western products, she faced obstacles to their acquisition. This applies to both the American Patriot and the French-Italian SAMP / T air defense system.

Any reluctance of the West to share technologies for political reasons will lead us to look for alternative technologies in countries with which we have no political problems. Including Russia

- The Turkish official responsible for defense procurement said to the designated publication.

He refused to discuss the details of the state of the S-500 negotiations with Russia, but noted that "everything is going well, as planned."

As a senior Turkish diplomat explained to Defense News, Ankara will reorient itself towards Russian arms standards, including the S-500, under the conditions, "while our Western allies continue to deprive us of such technologies."

Comments

[Sergey39]

NATO is bursting at the seams.

[Abbot]

According to Defense News, despite Ankara’s interest in Western products, she faced obstacles to their acquisition. This applies to both the American Patriot and the French-Italian SAMP / T air defense system.

The designation for the S-500 is likely a typo. And, no, in the original "West's reluctance to share tech pushes Turkey further into Russian orbit" is really written for the S-500. Yes, American experts from Defense News are looking far. Only they did not explain, in fact, why neither American nor European partners in NATO allow Turkey to access modern technologies and air defense systems. What are the reasons?

[aries2200]

NATO is bursting at the seams .... want useful sergei.

[Sergey39]

А

Quote: aries2200

NATO bursting at the seams .... want useful sergey

And to see in everything only the bad is harmful.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Sergey39

And to see in everything only the bad is harmful.

And the integrated pink glasses have not brought anyone to good.

[cost]

He who does not feed his allies feeds the military-industrial complex of his adversary (s)

[Lelek]

Quote: Rich

He who does not feed his allies feeds his enemy’s military-industrial complex

, Dmitry
Well, the "Turks" are not our ally. He, like the Anglo-Saxon, cannot be trusted one iota. At the most extreme moments in history, the Turks found themselves in the camp of our enemies. Now Erdogan, with his synclite, is flirting with Russia in order to obtain from it the maximum of the necessary preferences, which the EU and the United States have denied him, but still remains a dog in the pack of the latter. So, in no case is it possible to share with Turkey our latest achievements in the military-industrial sphere. it will turn against ourselves.

[cost]

A lion,
So in my comment about the United States it is said, not about us, because the Turks with the Americans are NATO allies

[Lelek]

Quote: Rich

rich (dmitry)

Well, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[16329]

And what kind of insurmountable contradictions between Russia and Turkey can you tell?
The Ottoman Empire, from the beginning of the period of decline, has been our adversary because of its economic and political dependence on its western creditors, either England and France, or Germany
Sometimes the Turks were allies of Russia, but as a result of the intrigues of the same Western partners, these alliances fell apart
The Bolsheviks supported Turkey against the Entente and transferred to it part of the Russian territories previously torn away by Russia from Turkey
In the Second World War, Turkey remained neutral, then became a member of NATO, while actively cooperating with the USSR in the field of economics.
Now Turkey has serious problems with its Western partners, this is the support of Gulen in the USA, the Conflict with Kurds supported by Europeans, and the lack of a European perspective.
Therefore, we are gradually building strategic interaction with Turkey, and this is Good
By the way, in EU-oriented Turkish circles, the idea of ​​the collapse of Turkey into a Europeanized part, practically within the large Istanbul and its environs up to the Aegean Sea Region (Izmir) with subsequent integration into the EU, Islamist Anatolia, with the separation of part of the Kurdish lands, with their entry into United Kurdistan.
It is these circles that make up the opposition to Erdogan

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Rich

He who does not feed his allies feeds the military-industrial complex of his adversary (s)

Only now all the time it turns out that the "allies" sit on the neck and try to control their legs ...

[Finches]

The creation of high-tech weapons is not selling tomatoes and strawberries - a school is needed here! As for the reluctance of arms manufacturers in NATO to share secrets, this is understandable - then how to sell if the Turks start producing themselves? How to impose their bases, such as to protect the country from the "aggressor" ... Here VVP is well done, he caught Erdogan's imperial manners and offered him undoubtedly the best air defense in the world! And now it is necessary to pull Erdogan out of NATO in general and in the Alliance, as a military bloc, it will be possible to put a fat cross, leaving only the word "political" in the definition!

[Vladimir_2U]

It’s strange, they were not going to transfer technology to the Indians, albeit on the Su-57, but to the Turks. But the Indians are even potentially not particularly hostile to us, in contrast ...

[Finches]

Helping Indians have problems with China, and tearing Turkey off NATO is strategically beneficial for us - we will slightly protect the southern direction and our interests in Syria and the Middle East.

[borberd]

There is a double-edged sword. You can tear it off and tear it off, only it will cost a lot. The Turks can buy something, but on the condition of technology transfer. And then they will do it themselves. And you will cease to be interesting for them. The Turks are very unreliable "allies". Always on your mind and always with a stone in your bosom.

[Finches]

Nobody will take them into allies - not more than partners!

[borberd]

Partners in what? If the Turks are going to switch to Russian standards, then you will not get off with one "partnership", they will have to fork out. Erdogan will grunt, not forever, and the one who replaces him will turn to the West. How will you repay loans? Or will you write it off? Turks are now for the West like a suitcase without a handle - it's hard to carry, but it's a pity to leave it, for now. Will you pick it up?

[Abbot]

Quote: Finches

As for the reluctance of arms manufacturers in NATO to share secrets, this is understandable - then how to sell if the Turks start producing themselves? How to impose your bases, such as to protect the country from the "aggressor"

I would add one more aspect. In Turkey, and in other countries of the region, the military is also a political force. Many times the Turkish military demolished power as a result of the putsch. So in 2016 there was an attempt with the active participation of the Air Force, whose officers are influenced by Western schools and instructors. And only air defense officers who can be trained by Russian instructors and part-time politicians can land conspiratorial officers from the Air Force on the ground.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Abbot

And only air defense officers can land conspiratorial officers from the Air Force on the ground

I wonder how it will be in Turkish "I don't fly myself and won't give to others"?

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Quote: Abbot

And only air defense officers can land conspiratorial officers from the Air Force on the ground

I wonder how it will be in Turkish "I don't fly myself and won't give to others"?

Allahuekber! ... well, like: allahu akbar ..

[mammadov teymur]

kendim uchamam bashkalara izin vermami look language do not break

[Finches]

It is truth too!

[bar]

Here the GDP is well done, I caught the imperial ways of Erdogan and offered him, undoubtedly, the best air defense in the world!

VVP caught Erdogan's fear of "Gulen" coups supported by the striped ones.

[maidan.izrailovich]

NATO is bursting at the seams.

NATO was not originally a strong alliance.
And there is practically no union as such. The owner and the vassals.

[Kleber]

Well yes. Europe is not in vain harboring the idea of ​​creating a European army in which the United States, with its hegemony in NATO, has no place.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: maidan.izrailovich

NATO is bursting at the seams.

NATO was not originally a strong alliance.
And there is practically no union as such. The owner and the vassals.

where else?

[Victor March 47]

When there were 9 countries there, the odds were above the roof. And when it was 29, NATO died by definition. The Entente, well-known and tried-and-tested in practice, acted like a beast. Each hid for each and all together for Russia. Interestingly, in the conditions of UNCONDITIONAL UNANIMOUS decision-making, all of them will be the first in the forefront in the confrontation with Russia?
Formally, one Bratsk (?????) Bulgaria is enough for them to all drown there in coordination and coercion.

[Pavel57]

Not yet cracking, but collapse has become more likely.

[thanks]

Standards are standards that can change ... Everything flows - everything changes. The best and the possibilities of its acquisition are taken into account, taking into account the real conditions. After all, Turkey itself did not refuse the Patriots, it was simply not sold to it.

[Kleber]

That's right, everything flows, everything changes. Why sell Patriots to the Turks? So that the Turkish Patriots would shoot down US Air Force planes later?

[riwas]

In the "Patriots", the Americans initially "wired" protection against use against the NATO Air Force.

[Kleber]

Well, that means such protection, since the Americans were afraid to sell. Our S-400 did not hesitate for their defense of "friend or foe".

[sen]

Not only "friend or foe", but the shutdown of the complex by a signal from the satellite.

[LiSiCyn]

Interesting movie ...
Russian standards ... But over time, and what are the prospects? We already heard about the Su-57 ... Armata, in turn.
What else are there for the Turks, are there problems?

[Abbot]

Quote: LiSiCyn

We already heard about the Su-57 ... Armata, in turn. What else are there for the Turks, are there problems?

And their lip will not crack? )) It is understandable, the eastern bazaar, traditions, favorable conditions, the right moment, etc. But it’s somehow strange to sell weapons to foreign armies that have not yet been clearly seen in their own troops.

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: Abbot

But it’s somehow strange to sell weapons to foreign armies that have not yet been clearly seen in their own troops.

Export weapons are different from domestic ones. In addition, such weapons can be equipped with bugs.
T-90 and Uralvagonzavod, at the expense of India pulled out. Shell, at the expense of the Emirates.

[Abbot]

Yes you are right. About bugs and bookmarks in the Russian weapons did not read. But everything can be.

[Abbot]

Quote: LiSiCyn

T-90 and Uralvagonzavod, at the expense of India pulled out. Shell, at the expense of the Emirates.

In fairness, it should be noted that at that time the Army was in a different state and did not buy anything from the defense industry. These contracts were rather forced, and only then for the sake of military-technical cooperation and the conquest of markets. Otherwise, both production and design bureaus would have buzzed. Now, then, the situation, you see, is a little different.

[volodimer]

I agree, SU27 MKA, MKI, MKK and so on, allowed Sukhoi to stay afloat, although they made advertising ad hoc. Himself then based on these developments did.

[Bongo]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Export weapons are different from domestic ones. In addition, such weapons can be equipped with bugs.

Did you read this?
Supply of S-400 air defense systems to Turkey: possible consequences

https://topwar.ru/166415-postavka-rossijskih-zrs-s-400-v-turciju-i-vozmozhnye-posledstvija-jetogo-shaga.html

[LiSiCyn]

Sergei With all due respect to you, no one owns complete information. More precisely, who owns will never write about it in VO. Therefore, we can only speculate.

[YOUR]

Yes, even if on the same conditions as the S-400 generally high.

[YOUR]

Terms of sale of S-400
[quote] Commenting on the financial terms of the transaction, the head of Rostec said that the finance ministries of the two countries have completed negotiations on this topic. “I can say that they pay 45% of the total amount of the contract as an advance, 55% - Russian loan funds,” Chemezov said

[volodimer]

Let it be better to build our factories for our "credit" to the Turks, but not to bend, otherwise the government will put this money in the American money-box. Here's what is better here, proflate or NATE make up ...
I do not consider the option that the government can otherwise invest these funds in our economy as unscientific fiction.

[Bongo]

Most of the stated by the anonymous author "news" -"bullshit" "far-fetched". In addition, it is not clear why at the beginning of the article a photograph of the S-300PS launchers?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Bongo

Most of what is stated by the anonymous author of "news" - "bullshit" is "far-fetched"

Join.

I venture to summarize - most of all published anywhere now "news" belongs to the same category. Unfortunately.

[Bongo]

Quote: Golovan Jack

I would venture to generalize - most of all "news" published anywhere now belongs to the same category. Unfortunately.

Unfortunately ...

[Kleber]

Turkey has an independent policy, which is increasingly contrary to US policy. Especially on the issue of the Middle East, where the probability of a Turkish army clashing with the US military in charge of Kurds and ISIS is very high. Hence the question: why should the Americans sell their weapons to the Turks, especially air defense systems, with a high degree of possible real clash, right up to Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO and a possible war between them?

[Bongo]

Quote: Kleber

Hence the question: why should the Americans sell their weapons to the Turks, especially air defense systems, with a high degree of possible real clash, up to Turkey’s withdrawal from NATO and a possible war between them?

Turkey's defense is directly dependent on the United States and NATO. Until recently, Turkey was one of the largest recipients of military and economic assistance from the United States and the European Union. In the territory of Turkey there are American military bases and nuclear weapons are stored. All Turkish generals studied in the USA. Do not confuse the ambitions of Erdogan and the aspiration vector of the Turkish establishment. Erdogan will not, and Turkey will again become a faithful ally of the United States.

[Kleber]

And who guarantees the United States that Erdogan will not be replaced by another Erdogan with stronger ambitions?

[Bongo]

Quote: Kleber

And who guarantees the United States that Erdogan will not be replaced by another Erdogan with stronger ambitions?

Under Erdogan, the economy does not grow, a significant part of the population and elites are not satisfied with it. The legacy of authoritarian rulers is generally not lasting.

[Kleber]

However, when trying to overthrow Erdogan, it was the population that played a decisive role in the failure of the coup.

[Bongo]

Quote: Kleber

However, when trying to overthrow Erdogan, it was the population that played a decisive role in the failure of the coup.

Come on ... Since when did the population decide something in such cases? A dozen tanks will easily disperse any crowd.
The decisive role was played by the fact that the rebels were not able to liquidate or capture Erdogan and to win over the leadership of the security services. Everything was precarious until it became clear that the president was alive and free.

[Kleber]

However, the tankers also did not dare to disperse the crowd. Erdogan's position in Turkey is not so shaky as the NATO "allies" would like.

[Bongo]

Quote: Kleber

However, the tankers also did not dare to disperse the crowd.

Did the tankers have such an order and there was a crowd in the streets during the "acute phase" of the mutiny? When the shooting went on and the F-16 rebels bombed the parliament, most of the population sat home. All live hunting.

[Kleber]

Who bombed whom is certainly interesting. But the main result: the coup failed.

[mammadov teymur]

the Turkish soldier will not shoot at his people, because having broken the order, they gave up in heaps and handed over weapons to the unarmed crowd, while the crowd they were beaten and how they (the soldiers) apologized during the beatings. a soldier in Turkey is considered a defender in buses; they are replaced by aksakals; their mentality is such a concept. and if it were with us (in Azerbaijan) or with you (in Russia), then events might have developed differently

[Oquzyurd]

"Under Erdogan, the economy does not grow," When Erdogan took power in Turkey, the country's GDP is 186 billion dollars, and now around 900 billion dollars. It radically changed everything in the country, from and to. Turkey 2000 and 2020 ., these are two different values, in everything. The direction of development in a new cycle of requirements, in technologies, in the dynamism of decision-making, in young personnel, and the correct building of economic relations in the country gives a reason that the next 10-15 years Turkey will make a second leap in development, especially in the high-tech military industry and related industries.

[Bongo]

You will deny that the Turkish economy is now in crisis?
Here is what Moody's writes about this:

Turkey's economic growth prospects are not very bright. This year, economic growth is projected to decrease by 1,5%. The currency crisis, in which the state was plunged by the policies of incumbent President Erdogan, reduced the demand for such export items as household appliances and cars. Moody's experts predict economic recovery with growth only next year. After the transition to a state management system led by one person - the president - Turkey has largely lost investor confidence. Turkey's external debt as of February 2019 was $ 448,4 billion. As before, a weak lira threatens to postpone payments on loans in hard currency, which is the basis for forecasting an economic downturn.

[Oquzyurd]

This is a crisis of a developed economy. For a simple reason, the crisis of GDP is 900 billion dollars, and not of GDP of 186 mln. dol. Secondly, the crisis is artificial in many respects, punishments for not subordinating the United States. But at the moment they have stopped inflation, reduced from 24% per year to 11,8% (2019) Forecasts for 2020 9,8%. Stabilized dollar, and shares of Turkish companies in the green zone. This year, exports increased from 174 billion dollars (2018) to 181 billion dollars (2019). The only problem is unemployment, which is more associated with a sharp increase in refugees from Syria (cheap working strength) and demographic growth in the country itself (population growth per year, 1,0-1,2 million people.)

[Rostislav Bely]

Sorry, but in my humble opinion, without a serious orbital grouping, all this is like handicraft, circles and vacillations like the classic has for another reason ...

[Kleber]

In my humble opinion, you have mixed up topics for comment.

[Igor Ivanov_4]

If anyone does not understand. American missiles will start in the sector, that is, they must first deploy a launcher, the sector is narrow, and the turnaround time is prohibitive according to the conditions of modern warfare. And our rockets start vertically, and then wherever you want to fly! 360 angle of fire without changing the position of the launcher! Seconds, but they decide!

[Thrifty]

We ourselves have not put ourselves in service with the C400 in the right volumes, but are we negotiating with the Turks about selling the C500 to them? ?? If this is true, then what can it be called then? ????

[bessmertniy]

Foolishness. Moreover, Turkey is not a friendly state to us.

[mammadov teymur]

judging by Turkish Internet resources, four divisions with 400 were in Turkey long before the conclusion of the agreements. Russia has made it possible for Turkey to protect its sky thereby protecting itself from some problems

[Strashila]

"Defense News: Turkey is switching to Russian arms standards", Russian arms standards require Russian standards for their use.
And they have something to compare.
The Iraqi army eventually began to switch to Russian weapons after it fought with the US, the Syrian army proved its effectiveness, in the presence of the outdated Soviet, which gave the presence of American complexes to the Saudis.
Unlike the American army, where the country simply prints money, Turkey has to take into account the cost ratio of real combat effectiveness, not advertising.
Despite the tragedy of the situation with the Boeings, the Soviet / Russian air defense systems showed that missiles fly and hit.

[for]

Properly need to have weapons of future opponents. ,, Crimea should return to their native harbor ,, (Turkey)

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Aerodrome

Quote: maidan.izrailovich

NATO is bursting at the seams.

NATO was not originally a strong alliance.
And there is practically no union as such. The owner and the vassals.

where else?

At the bazaar in the Council of Europe. Everything is against Russia there. But, fortunately, this hebrew does not fight and does not make military decisions.