Iran admitted that accidentally shot down a Ukrainian passenger Boeing

Passenger Boeing 737 of Ukraine International Airlines, crashed near Tehran, was shot down accidentally as a result of a “human error”. This is stated in a statement by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Iran.

As a result of human error and by accident this plane was shot down

- said in a statement distributed by the state television and radio company IRIB.

The Iranian general staff added that they shot down the plane, because it flew near the IRGC military facility. As noted in the statement, this happened in a "high alert", associated with a possible US response to missile attacks on US bases in Iraq.

This information was confirmed by Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, who made a corresponding post on Twitter.

Sad day. Preliminary findings of the internal investigation of the Armed Forces (Iran): a human error made during the crisis due to US adventurism led to disaster

- he said.

Zarif offered condolences and apologies to the Iranian people, as well as to the families of the victims of the tragedy.

Earlier, a number of Western media reported that the Ukrainian airliner could be shot down by anti-aircraft missiles. This conclusion was made by American intelligence, having studied satellite images and the circumstances of the crash of the aircraft.

On January 8, the Ukrainian Boeing 737 airliner crashed in Tehran, with 176 people on board, 9 of them crew members (citizens of Ukraine). All flying on board Tehran-Kiev died. Initially, information appeared in the press about the crash due to the “technical malfunction” of the aircraft.

Comments

[Nikitich]

Good memory to the victims!
I am for justice!
You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes!
Iran well done ..

[viking1703]

all right. let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

[The Sparkle]

Should the outskirts also recognize the downed Boeing and apologize to Russia?

[viking1703]

and now the grandmother said in two! Western versions of downed planes are more truthful. maybe Ukraine shot down, and maybe the DNI. Now the West will poke in the face that their versions always hit the nail on the head.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: viking1703

. Now the West will poke in the face that their versions always hit the nail on the head.

Oh really?

Earlier, a number of Western media reported that the Ukrainian airliner could be shot down by anti-aircraft missiles. This conclusion was made by American intelligence, having studied satellite images and the circumstances of the crash of the aircraft.

Well, where are the conclusions about Boeing?
"They are there, but we won't show them to you"?
Something they don’t remember about it

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Well, where are the conclusions about Boeing?
"They are there, but we won't show them to you"?
Something they don’t remember about it

The US still leaves room for compromise.
It comes to trial - they will voice it.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

The US still leaves room for compromise.

To whom ??? Us????
Yes, they are even for unproven the violinists imposed sanctions and sent diplomats.
And here why then not "leave room for a compromise."?

[littoral]

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, they even imposed sanctions for unproven violinists

For the proven.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: littoral

For the proven.

In a court?
Remind me Where, when such a court was and his sentence?

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

In a court?
Remind me Where, when such a court was and his sentence?

well, enough already post a horseradish.
What Petrov and .. Vasechkin it was not just Salisbury who walked clearly even to the very stubborn dolwormaster.
But for everyone - nothing has been proven.
We found where they served, where they serve, what kind of cars they drive, addresses, phone numbers and, most importantly .. photos.
but this is certainly not proof for you - 2 honest businessmen went to admire the cathedral.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

it was not just Salisbury who walked clearly even to the very stubborn dolwormaster.

Only the stubborn "dolboy" does not need ANY proof. It is enough for him to say that they came to persecute and specially walked under the cameras and oh, that's enough
Once again I ask, In what court is it recognized by the EVIDENCE of the involvement of the Russian Federation and, in particular, the data of citizens in the poisoning.
Your place where you eat is not considered

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Only the stubborn "dolboy" does not need ANY proof.

Well, of course, an interview with Simonyan is evidence.
Everything else is not.
If the case is not considered in the Basmanny court, it means a priori not fair.
If the Russians are not allowed to be investigated, it means 100% biased.
So what do you think?
Then there’s nothing to talk to you at all.

Quote: Lipchanin

Once again I ask, In what court is it recognized by the EVIDENCE of the involvement of the Russian Federation and, in particular, the data of citizens in the poisoning.

baby talk.
To conduct the trial, the second party must at least be represented, did Petrov and Vasechkin agree to go to London and prove their innocence in court?
As I recall, they even refused to testify to investigators from the Scotland Yard, who were ready to come to the territory of the Russian Federation.
It’s strange how you think why * innocent accusers * in no way tried to prove the opposite and whitewash their name.
At least a testimony?
Is it strange?
Still want to talk about the court?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

If the case is not considered in the Basmanny court, it means a priori not fair.

In which then ??????
YOU already got your speculation.
There was NO trial, NO evidence was recognized, but everything is clear to you.
You will inappropriately be joyful when YOU, without any trial, without PROVEN evidence, will be sent to life

It’s strange how you think why * innocent accusers * in no way tried to prove the opposite and whitewash their name.

Are they obliged to prove something?
Did the court prove their guilt? Or should they answer every nonsense?
Have you heard anything about the presumption of innocence? The Court has already recognized them as won?
Well, the last question.
Why has passed so much time, a mass of "evidence" has been collected, the "suspects" are known, but the case has not yet been transferred to the COURT?
The blame was blamed the next day, but in court

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

In which then ??????
YOU already got your speculation.
There was no court

But it cannot be, the second side refuses to participate in it.

Quote: Lipchanin

You will inappropriately be joyful when YOU, without any trial, without PROVEN evidence, will be sent to life

You probably did not understand, for those who are especially stubborn, I repeat.
Petrov and Vasechkin agreed to testify?
Maybe they agreed to defend their name in court?
How can they be taken away somewhere if they just disappeared?

Quote: Lipchanin

Why has passed so much time, a mass of "evidence" has been collected, the "suspects" are known, but the case has not yet been transferred to the COURT?

This is English law (legal) - there are no correspondence courts by definition.
We have the same English law in Israel, and so without the official reaction of the other side to the prosecution, no lawsuit is opened.
Alas - absentee courts in English law do not exist.

This is not a basmanny court for you

Quote: Lipchanin

The blame was blamed the next day, but in court

strange you.
But how is it otherwise?
First, the investigating authorities collect the evidence base, then it is transferred to the prosecutor's office, then the prosecutor's office makes an indictment, then the court.
You do not know the code of procedure?
Teach the materiel

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

But it cannot be, the second side refuses to participate in it.

What is ???????? The court has already been appointed ????? Agendas sent ????
So, if the criminal refuses to speak in court, there will be no trial?
Iron logic
About absentee sentences are not the ear is not a face?

Petrov and Vasechkin agreed to testify?

Where????? In which COURT ???? Where does he go ????

Maybe they agreed to defend their name in court?

What court and where does it blame them for something ???
WHERE do they defend him ????? ADDRESS name ???

First, the investigating authorities collect evidence, then it is transferred to the prosecutor’s office, then the prosecutor’s office issues an indictment, then the court.

Where is he this court ???
Why didn’t they transfer so much time ????
You got it already by the fact that our guys have to prove what NOBODY has officially accused them of yet !!!
There is no presumption of innocence in your court.
And such a concept as guilty or innocent can only be recognized by the court, isn’t it?
But judging by the fact that, without any trial, the citizens of the Russian Federation were found guilty without any trial, then NO

[Sergey1987]

Quote: Lipchanin

What is ???????? The court has already been appointed ????? Agendas sent ????
So, if the criminal refuses to speak in court, there will be no trial?
Iron logic
About absentee sentences are not the ear is not a face?

But what kind of logic does this clown have there?))))) This atalef is an ordinary balabol criticizing everything that the Russian Federation would not have done. What can I say if in one of the comments he calls the best foreign minister in history.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Sergey1987

What can I say if in one of the comments he calls the best foreign minister in history.

Then let usveterans.com read, where veterans of state intelligence in black and white about 777: if the president said that there is evidence, and then does not show it, then they do not confirm the position of the United States. Obama never showed space intelligence images, but promised on the very first day ...

[borberd]

Ha ha So I can imagine how seasoned MI-5,6 scouts and counterintelligence agents beat the thresholds of the Basmanny court, make complaints, humbly listen to the refusals and again and again try to call Bashirov and Petrov to justice. I have not heard more stupidity.

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

judging by the fact that, without any trial, the citizens of the Russian Federation were found guilty without any trial, then NO

they are not convicted, they are in the status of the accused. refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

they are accused.

Yeah....
Maybe they are still SUSPECTED?
Did someone file a charge against them in the COURT?

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Did someone file a charge against them in the COURT?

prepared by the UK prosecutor.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

prepared by the UK prosecutor.

That's it, it’s prepared.
To promise, this does not mean to marry
Interestingly, all the preparation came down to husky like?

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

That's it, it’s prepared.

would you rather like it - not prepared?

Quote: Lipchanin

To promise, this does not mean to marry
Interestingly, all the preparation came down to husky like?

All preparation came down to that. then Petrov that Bashirov disappeared and refuse to cooperate with the investigation, to testify and generally try to whitewash his * unjustly tainted name *

[Bukhalov]

Quote: Lipchanin

Quote: atalef

But it cannot be, the second side refuses to participate in it.

What is ???????? The court has already been appointed ????? Agendas sent ????
So, if the criminal refuses to speak in court, there will be no trial?
Iron logic
About absentee sentences are not the ear is not a face?

Petrov and Vasechkin agreed to testify?

Where????? In which COURT ???? Where does he go ????

Maybe they agreed to defend their name in court?

What court and where does it blame them for something ???
WHERE do they defend him ????? ADDRESS name ???

First, the investigating authorities collect evidence, then it is transferred to the prosecutor’s office, then the prosecutor’s office issues an indictment, then the court.

Where is he this court ???
Why didn’t they transfer so much time ????
You got it already by the fact that our guys have to prove what NOBODY has officially accused them of yet !!!
There is no presumption of innocence in your court.
And such a concept as guilty or innocent can only be recognized by the court, isn’t it?
But judging by the fact that, without any trial, the citizens of the Russian Federation were found guilty without any trial, then NO

Excuse me generously for wedging myself into the discussion about "Petrov and Vasechkin." I was interested in two points: 1. Iran has admitted its guilt in the form of negligence. But the comments went in a completely different direction. 2. Lipchanin, not in the order of edification of some kind. You undertake to judge things in which, well, let's put it mildly, are not entirely competent. In order to discuss these topics, you need to have a legal education. And if you do not know anything about the various forms of criminal proceedings, including the main ones - inquisitorial and accusatory, the difference between continental and insular criminal proceedings, then all your other considerations about preliminary investigation, indictment and trial are neither to the village nor to the city. I do not dare to distract you from further research.

[borberd]

This is the usual troll technique - to translate the discussion on a topic that is closer to them, where they feel more confident. You just have to not be fooled by this. Yesterday, they all blamed the Americans for everything and otmazyvat Iranians. But then the Iranians confessed what brought their guardians here in a state close to shock.

[Lipchanin]

I’m wrong that there was NO court, but the Russian Federation and the citizens of the Russian Federation have already been found guilty ???

[Bukhalov]

Quote: Lipchanin

I’m wrong that there was NO court, but the Russian Federation and the citizens of the Russian Federation have already been found guilty ???

I answer the last time. Because it hurts your ears your conviction and argumentation are not based on professionalism. The situation around Petrov and Bashirov is very easily resolved legally. The Constitution of the Russian Federation, as well as other countries, prohibits the extradition of citizens of the Russian Federation to other states. The norm of the general part of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation governs the criminal law of the Russian Federation in time and space. According to this norm, citizens of the Russian Federation who have committed a crime outside the territory of the Russian Federation are subject to criminal liability under the laws of Russia, if they provide for liability for such an act. There are reasons and grounds for instituting criminal proceedings against Petrov and Bashirov on the fact of the attempted murder of Skripals. This is reported in the Russian press (as a pretext) and the fact that Skripals was involved in the incident (as a basis). The Russian Federation must conduct a pre-investigation check (the so-called filtration stage of legal proceedings) and take one of two procedural decisions: initiate a criminal case and proceed with an investigation, or refuse to institute proceedings. Neither one nor the other has been done. On the presumption of innocence. Wrong you understand her. Long before the trial, even at the stage of pre-trial investigation, the accused is treated exactly as the guilty. He is deprived of almost all constitutional rights: freedom of movement, correspondence, the right to dispose of property, even the right to see his family, call them on the phone, what he wants, even wear a belt (in case of detention). The legislator has a completely different meaning in defining the presumption of innocence. A person is innocent outside the process. And the last one. There is no preliminary (pre-trial) investigation in England, as in most countries of Europe. They immediately begin a trial, where, unlike the Russian Federation and Ukraine, defense is the same subject of proof as the court and the prosecutor's office. Yes, yet. The court does not prove anything at all, neither guilt nor innocence. And he is not a party to the process. Its task is to ensure equal conditions for the parties to prove their position. It’s on your fingers. But everything in space orders is more regulated and more complicated. Therefore, I propose to return to the earth, to the topic of the branch.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Bukhalov

Long before the trial, even at the stage of pre-trial investigation, the accused is treated exactly as the guilty.

Everything is clear with such nonsense.
Even being in a pre-trial detention center is called CONSIDERATIVE and in no other way !!!
It seems that he picked up the tops ....

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Even being in a pre-trial detention center is called CONSIDERATIVE and in no other way !!!

For a simple understanding, I will tell you the essence of the code of procedure so that you do not write nonsense.
When an unlawful act is committed, the investigation begins during the investigation, it is determined whether there are SUSPECTED, for a start he is suspected, then transferred to the rank of a SUBSIDENT or WITNESS for this illegal action.
Depending on the danger measure, the SECONDARY measure of restraint can be chosen, it can be carried out only with the permission of the COURT, with the submission of both the prosecutor's office and the investigating authorities.
At that moment when the investigating authorities completed the investigation (the case is transferred to the Prosecutor's Office where the prosecutor's office checks both the progress of the investigation and the evidence base.
If everything is in order, the PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE brings an indictment, the suspect goes into the status of the DEFENDANT, the case (the prosecutor submits to the court.
Court during the hearing and dismantled both the arguments of the prosecution and the arguments of the defense accepts resente (if a guilty verdict is passed), then only then the accused will transfer to the status of GUILTY
I clearly explained?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

I clearly explained?

Aha. Only I still have not understood why, without any court, to which the matter does not seem to reach, the citizens of the Russian Federation were appointed Guilty in the use of OS?
Are these your words?

The court during the meeting and having examined both the arguments of the prosecution and the arguments of the defense accepts the decision (if the verdict is guilty), then only then the accused will transfer to the status of GUILTY

ONCE I ASK, COURT WAS ?????

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Are these your words?
The court during the meeting and having examined both the arguments of the prosecution and the arguments of the defense accepts the decision (if the verdict is guilty), then only then the accused will transfer to the status of GUILTY

ONCE I ASK, COURT WAS ?????

for especially stubborn dolboers, I’ll ask for the last time - where are they officially found guilty?
They are at the stage of the accused.
Russian is written in white, and above I explained the difference.
Adyos, the conversation ceases to be languid.
Take a read comprehension test
Here is a reference
https://nsportal.ru/nachalnaya-shkola/chtenie/2018/06/07/testy-na-ponimanie-prochitannogo-teksta
then we'll talk.

[KrokodilGena]

This Lipchanin is a troll, which, together with his ilk, is here to flood.

[Bukhalov]

Quote: Lipchanin

Quote: Bukhalov

Long before the trial, even at the stage of pre-trial investigation, the accused is treated exactly as the guilty.

Everything is clear with such nonsense.
Even being in a pre-trial detention center is called CONSIDERATIVE and in no other way !!!

The term "suspect" does not exist in the RF Code of Criminal Procedure, from the word at all. There is only, depending on the stage of the proceedings, "suspect", "accused", "defendant" and "convicted." , yes, in the legal profession and in scientific work for a couple of decades. With all the ensuing academic degrees and titles. Here's an uncle. "The suspect .." Well, you know, you know what words. Probably on the bench, which of the grandmothers taught.

[atalef]

Quote: Bukhalov

Long before the trial, even at the stage of pre-trial investigation, the accused is treated exactly as the guilty.

accused, guilty, or rather, the degree of guilt determined by the court.

[Bukhalov]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Bukhalov

Long before the trial, even at the stage of pre-trial investigation, the accused is treated exactly as the guilty.

accused, guilty, or rather, the degree of guilt determined by the court.

This does not mean that at the stage of pre-trial investigation in the Russian Federation, or the court stage in countries of island law, the accused (defendant) is treated as innocent. Even the trial of the defendant in handcuffs, and in some places in shackles, is also given. There is a difference in the procedural status of the accused / defendant and the guilt in the court that you identify.

[atalef]

Quote: Bukhalov

This does not mean that at the stage of pre-trial investigation in the Russian Federation, or the court stage in countries of island law, the accused (defendant) is treated as innocent.

Of course not, at the stage of the suspect a decision can be made on arrest, house arrest and generally restriction of rights.
Of course.
Yes, in general, even the police in the Russian Federation can at least anywhere detain you without charge for a period of usually 24 hours, in some countries and more.

[Bukhalov]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Bukhalov

This does not mean that at the stage of pre-trial investigation in the Russian Federation, or the court stage in countries of island law, the accused (defendant) is treated as innocent.

Of course not, at the stage of the suspect a decision can be made on arrest, house arrest and generally restriction of rights.
Of course.
Yes, in general, even the police in the Russian Federation can at least anywhere detain you without charge for a period of usually 24 hours, in some countries and more.

Of course. There is a consensus, as Gorbachev used to say.

[Simple]

Quote: Lipchanin

And such a concept as guilty or innocent can only be recognized by the court, isn’t it?

У atalef

Quote: atalef

then the prosecutor’s indictment

those. according to his version - just in absentia.

[atalef]

What is in absentia?
You probably do not understand?
For especially stubborn, sick and miserable, I repeat.
Absentee court in English law does not exist.
/ The prosecutor’s office can collect an infinite amount of evidence at least in person, at least in absentia

correspondence
- carried out without direct contact with someone

without reaction from the accused, the case will not be accepted for consideration by the court.

[Simple]

The prosecutor's office can approve (and not pass) an indictment
(i.e. give him a move further, for example, send him to court)
The initiator of the indictment is the investigation of the case.

[Lena Petrova]

The most important thing is the logic of this action. It just doesn't exist. A daughter comes to daddy - a traitor, from whom everything has long been "sucked", and from Russia with some incomprehensible, wild and difficult-to-fulfill mission, intelligence agents arrive, so that, with the help of
a scary toxic substance that will make a splash all over Britain. Did they walk around the city in gas masks and gloves? And how to apply it imperceptibly, if there can be cameras in any place, and you yourself may not be harmed? Why two? Better about five people - or rather. And where are the heroes of the occasion? Why aren't they interviewed in the freest press? And they did not achieve the "set goal". A simple tie, in such cases, would be somehow more reliable. Ugh - circus!

[Flooding]

Quote: atalef

This is English law (legal) - there are no correspondence courts by definition.

Quote: https://www.banki.ru/news/lenta/?id=1874945

The High Court of England sentenced in absentia to two years in prison Alexander Stepanov, a former general director and major shareholder of the British Energomash (UK) Limited, a holding company of the Energomash group

Quote: https://regnum.ru/news/society/2077640.html#!

Former member of the Federation Council of Russia Sergey Pugachev (Tuva) was sentenced in absentia by the Supreme Court of England to two years in prison. This was announced today, February 12, by the British media.

[atalef]

Quote: Flood

Former member of the Federation Council of Russia Sergey Pugachev (Tuva) was sentenced in absentia by the Supreme Court of England to two years in prison. This was announced today, February 12, by the British media.

why don’t you give the whole article?

It is reported that a former member of the Federation Council, the founder of the bankrupt Mezhprombank, Sergei Pugachev, has been prosecuted for several violations of the court orders of the High Court of London.

The court found Pugachev guilty of hiding under oath, failure to comply with the disclosure requirements of assets, and that he illegally left the jurisdiction of England and Wales. Pugachev’s defense has already stated that it intends to appeal the decision of the English court to the ECHR.

He escaped from court, more precisely during the trial.
Do you feel the difference?
The investigation was completed, charges were brought, Pugachev's lawyers filed a defense response.
The court accepted for consideration, the trial began in its process. Pugachev fled.
You do not understand the difference? What does it mean to escape during the trial in the COURT?

[Flooding]

Quote: atalef

why don’t you give the whole article?

The answer is obvious. In order not to clutter up the forum.
So the sentence is in absentia - this time.
You wrote earlier that in absentia court decisions are not made in English courts - these are two.
The case is not the only one. The second link and the Internet to help. I can help you search - these are three.

[atalef]

Quote: Flood

The answer is obvious. In order not to clutter up the forum

not obvious and don't juggle the facts.
I said that in absentia a court in England cannot pronounce a sentence because the case cannot reach the court a priori.
There is no reaction from the other party (the accused) - the court will not accept the case. /Dot.
Pugachev escaped during the trial, when the court went and the case was accepted for consideration, the prosecutor’s office filed an indictment and there was a reaction from the accused.

Quote: Flood

You wrote earlier that in absentia court decisions are not made in English courts - these are two.

I meant that a court cannot pass without the presence of a second party and a verdict is delivered in absentia.
as it happens in the same Russian court.
The article about Pugachev is not legally correct. This is not a decision in absentia, this is a judgment rendered in the absence of the accused, who escaped during the COURT.
Do you catch the difference?

Quote: Flood

The case is not the only one. The second link and the Internet to help. I can help you search - these are three.

why don’t you bring the article again?

“In the proceedings Stepanov submitted additional agreements to the court, which, according to him, were signed at the end of 2008 between him and BTA Bank. These documents significantly changed the terms of the loan agreement to the detriment of the interests of the bank, however, as a result of a handwriting examination, these documents were found to be fake, and the version of events presented by Stepanov was refuted, ”the bank said.

Have a problem with what you read?
They both fled during the trial. And in the case of Stepanov in general, after the announcement of the intermediate conclusions.

[Flooding]

Quote: atalef

I meant that a court cannot pass without the presence of a second party and a verdict is delivered in absentia.

The tablet freezes, so only the link
https://zakon.ru/blog/2014/1/28/izvestit_ne_poanglijski__prezidium_vas_otkazal_v_priznanii_resheniya_britanskogo_suda

[Flooding]

Quote: atalef

The court accepted for consideration, the trial began in its process. Pugachev fled.
You do not understand the difference? What does it mean to escape during the trial in the COURT?

Nonsense. These were two different court decisions.
And just according to the second he was convicted in absentia.

Quote: https://24smi.org/celebrity/5245-sergei-pugachev.html

Pugachev is put on the international wanted list, and representatives of the Russian Federation turn to London officials (at that time Sergey Pugachev lived in London) with a request for assistance in the investigation. Having studied all the nuances, a London court ruled to freeze Pugachev’s funds in the UK.

In 2015, Sergei Pugachev, contrary to the order of the court, leaves the territory of England and flees to France, where he draws up another lawsuit against the Russian side for political persecution and expropriation of material assets. Meanwhile, Pugachev was sentenced to 2 years of imprisonment for contempt of the London court, while in Russia, the banker in court is recognized as responsible in the Mezhprombank case and brought to subsidiary liability.

[atalef]

Quote: Flood

Nonsense. These were two different court decisions.
And just according to the second he was convicted in absentia.

She did not say that this was one thing, but in both cases the accused fled during the trial.
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[Flooding]

Quote: atalef

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

I will refrain from rudeness. But you seem to understand only yourself well.
Return to my post above and re-read carefully.
In fact, a decision was made in the Pugachev case.
But after he violated it, a new decision was made, due to and due to his absence in absentia.
And control yourself, express yourself more culturally.

[Prosha]

Since the case cannot be brought to court, then there was no crime! There are no criminals and no one was poisoned! - Here are your logical conclusions! No and no trial. Or rather, since there is no trial, then there is no crime! Is it not so in your country?
And without further development of the case, I can absolutely convincingly, with a "high degree of probability", that it was you who poisoned the Skripals and the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation has collected a lot of all sorts of evidence, but since the case is hopeless, no one will prosecute you, but if suddenly lucky to be in Russia, go to the nearest prosecutor's office)

[victor50]

Quote: Prosha

Since the case cannot be brought to court, then there was no crime!

Nonsense! Criminal cases, at least in our case, are being stopped while investigating the perpetrators for various reasons: amnesty, for example, reconciliation of the parties, etc.

[atalef]

Quote: Prosha

Since the case cannot be brought to court, then there was no crime!

There was a crime, the prosecutor’s office insists on it and submits an indictment.
A trial cannot begin without the reaction of the accused.
in English law, there cannot be a priori trial when only the prosecution is in court.

Quote: Prosha

Here are your logical conclusions!

You not only do not know the code of procedure, but you also cannot read.
Sorry

Quote: Prosha

Or rather, since there is no trial, then there is no crime!

There is a victim, with all the signs of violent death (as an example) - there are no suspects (the investigation did not find or did not find).
Is there a court? -- no
Is there a crime? - Yes .
Turn on elementary logic.

Quote: Prosha

I can absolutely convincingly, with a "high degree of probability", that it was you who poisoned the Skripals and that the Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation has collected a lot of all sorts of evidence

If the prosecutor has enough evidence, then provide an indictment.

Quote: Prosha

but since the case is futile, nobody will hold you accountable

Do you contradict yourself? so enough or not? If enough, why is it futile?

Quote: Prosha

but if you are lucky enough to be in Russia, go to the nearest prosecutor’s office)

You are so legally illiterate that you don’t even know Russian law.
Who issues the detention order?
The court, on the proposal of the prosecutor's office, if it finds sufficient reason for detention.

[Prosha]

You yourself answered all your inferences, I just voiced everything that you yourself said, and you have refuted them with honor, thereby you objected to it.
Well, and if, in essence, the presence of anyone in a certain place, even at the crime scene, cannot be considered criminal intent in any way, and refusing any testimony and explanation does not mean involvement in the crime.

[krillon]

15 years ago, a TU 154 plane belonging to Siberia Airlines was shot down over Ukraine. 27 citizens of Russia and 51 citizens of Israel were killed. Remind me how the Ukrainian side resisted denying that they shot down the plane during the exercises?

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Krillon

how did the Ukrainian side rest in denying that they shot down the plane during the exercises?

Without drawing any analogies: with the Tu-154 the wildest case, the country 404 rebelled until it was pulled out of the sea. It seems the left engine is stuffed with shrapnel. When they pinned Kuchma uttered - it happens .. There something very long lasted with compensation for the Russians.

[Alex_You]

Firstly, not over Ukraine, but over the Black Sea. Secondly, Ukraine still has not recognized that it was allegedly it shot down a plane.

[nikon7717]

Here, the Boeing’s case over Ukraine is even more interesting, when the US lost satellite control data, and now it’s instantly found. The conclusion suggests itself when choosing the right accused, everything is.

[tomket]

Quote: atalef

Petrov and Vasechkin agreed to testify?

By the way, but there was no such case for you. Two MOSSAD agents threw down some religious obscurantist who spoiled the life of Israel, or some Nazi. And then it went off, they found out that it was Moisha and Rabinovich. And why did you fill up this obscurantist? And the obscurantist was good, and the Nazi loved to watch films about "The Lion King", and even cried when Simba's father was trampled. There is no such?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

To conduct the trial, the second party must at least be represented, did Petrov and Vasechkin agree to go to London and prove their innocence in court?

Got it already.
CASE before the COURT transferred ?????
They were summoned to the COURT ????
How do you know whether they will agree or not ????

Still want to talk about the court?

With whom???
With someone who makes such a BADDAY like this?

and prove your innocence in court?

They should NOT prove ANYTHING to ANYTHING.
THE COURT MUST PROVE.
With a person who does not know such ELEMENTARY things, there is simply Nothing to speak .
Chao-

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

Got it already.
CASE before the COURT transferred ?????

how can a case be brought to court without the official response of the accused (written by themselves) or by a trusted lawyer?

Quote: Lipchanin

They were summoned to the COURT ????

How, if they are not ready to testify?

Quote: Lipchanin

How do you know whether they will agree or not ????

They do not agree to testify on the territory of the Russian Federation, as the logic suggests that they certainly will not go to London.

Quote: Lipchanin

With whom???
With someone who makes such a BADDAY like this?

You are of course a connoisseur of English law
My wife is a lawyer, here is a lawyer, and we have English law.
Want to talk about legal issues?

Quote: Lipchanin

They should NOT prove ANYTHING to ANYTHING

They must, the presumption of innocence applies only at the stage of the investigation, after filing the indictment it is no longer there.
The person is in status - the accused.

Quote: Lipchanin

THE COURT MUST PROVE.

The court does not prove.
The court pronounces the verdict on the basis of the findings and, so to speak, debate and evidence base presented by the prosecution and the accused.

Quote: Lipchanin

With a person who does not know such ELEMENTARY things, there is simply Nothing to speak

Are you about yourself?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

as logic suggests that they certainly will not go to London.

RJUNIMAGU
And therefore, the case has not yet been referred to court.

after filing the indictment, she is no longer there.

And no in court?
Is there a bill of indictment?
Where is it? On which site can I read it?
Or is it available only to the "elite" on VO?

The court does not prove.

In the COURT prove. And since there is no trial, then there is no evidence

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

RJUNIMAGU
And therefore, the case has not yet been referred to court.

laugh, but without the reaction of the other side - the matter cannot reach the court a priori - English law

Quote: Lipchanin

And no in court?

no, the person is in the position of the accused, therefore, he must prove.

Quote: Lipchanin

Is there a bill of indictment?

Is.
But without the reaction of the accused, it cannot be sued - English law
When crossing the border with at least Petrov at least Vasechkin, they will be delayed and the matter will spin further.
So far - a dead end and not the fault of the prosecution.

Quote: Lipchanin

Or is it available only to the "elite" on VO?

Is this the first time you hear that Petrov and Bashirov are officially charged?

Quote: Lipchanin

In the COURT prove. And since there is no trial, then there is no evidence

Evidence is provided by the prosecutor.
Evidence to the contrary is provided by the party of the accused - that it works.

[Dart]

damn it ... and Jews are stupid ... uzbagsy already ... or drink yadu ....

[victor50]

Quote: Lipchanin

RJUNIMAGU

Sir, you are, of course, a patriot, but legally absolutely illiterate, perhaps because he is very arrogant and arrogant.

Quote: Lipchanin

In the COURT prove. And since there is no trial, then there is no evidence

And if the accused, in the presence of strong evidence (for example, was caught at the time the crime was committed and +++), died before the trial. So he is not guilty and there is no evidence. You do not want to believe in the cited part of the evidence, your opponent wants to believe that is all. But your arguments about guilt-innocence, the existence of evidence only in court, etc. in the context of this dispute, complete nonsense. And, unfortunately, you are arguing as violent ignorance.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: victor50

And if the accused, in the presence of strong evidence (for example, was caught at the time the crime was committed and +++), died before the trial.

No need to juggle. We are talking about the fact that the British side did not at all present any evidence or accusations. Only suspicion and speculation.
I’m just trying to understand why the case has not yet been referred to the COURT, if everything is in order with the evidence.

[victor50]

Quote: Lipchanin

We are talking about the fact that the British side did not at all present any evidence or accusations.

You? To your opponent? There is no provision in any criminal procedure legislation to present evidence to you or anyone else who is not a participant in this process. You and your opponent are guided by information that has leaked (or intentionally merged) into the media. No one knows what is in the case file, except for those who investigated it. And they merge information based on the specific interests of the investigation, political, etc. But only do .. not very smart and sneaky investigator will merge outright lies. And why it is not transferred to the court - one of the possibilities your opponent informed you. In general, the Anglo-Saxon justice system is very different from ours, so much so that it is impossible to approach it with our concepts. And to ask such a question, you need to know it very well (some subtleties are difficult even for our lawyers). Especially - to answer this question. In general, the reasoning of NOT PARTICIPANTS of the process about the presence or absence of evidence of guilt-innocence is stupid. To consider whether they exist or not, and if so, whether they are sufficient, you need to study the details of the criminal case in detail, and not be guided by media publications. But now - all the same, investigators, prosecutors, judges and lawyers. Everyone knows what they have investigated, after reading the publications in the media. There are very few real ones left.

[Dart]

reasoning of NOT PARTICIPANTS of the process about the presence or absence of evidence of guilt-innocence is stupid

I agree ... say it again to the one who is above with foam at the mouth already accused of all sins that he is stupid.

[KrokodilGena]

Quote: Lipchanin

We are talking about the fact that the British side did not at all present any evidence or accusations.

It's a lie! Evidence collected abundantly, the entire chronology of action. We found everything, the real names of these grief agents, where they served, ranks. And this is far from an isolated case of GRU failures in recent years.

[Prosha]

Another English prosecutor !!! They tried to besiege only one of Israel, and the second immediately drew. Above, the comrade adequately tried to ask: where is this evidence and to whom are they known to the two of you, and why did the angel court share its knowledge with you?

[Sergey1987]

Quote: atalef

You are of course a connoisseur of English law
My wife is a lawyer, here is a lawyer, and we have English law.
Want to talk about legal issues?

Bad, it means you have a lawyer and you seem to understand jurisprudence as I do in ballet, if you simply do not understand the concept of "sentence in absentia" and "Presumption of innocence." For this, the other side does not need to be in court. Read at least what it is.
One of the fundamental principles of criminal proceedings is that a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty of a crime in the manner prescribed by law and established by a court decision that has entered into legal force.
Everything else is about who is to blame and who poisoned the skripal with empty talk. If the prosecutor had already submitted the evidence to the court, he would have already been convicted in absentia long ago.
But this, of course, does not bother you, if only to open your mouth towards the Russian Federation.

[dmmyak40]

You forget that we are talking about the English system of law, and there the concept of the "presumption of innocence" in this form appeared only after joining the EU. You will be surprised, but in the United States, a court can deliver an indictment even without proving the guilt of the defendant. What else is the benefit of the doubt, what are you talking about?

[Sergey1987]

Quote: dmmyak40

You forget that we are talking about the English system of law, and there the concept of the "presumption of innocence" in this form appeared only after joining the EU.

Yes, only Britain is still a member of the EU, which means the "presumption of innocence" should work.

Quote: dmmyak40

You will be surprised, but in the United States a court can convict even without proving the guilt of the defendant. What is the presumption of innocence, what are you talking about?

In principle, I am not surprised, but can you give examples anyway?

[dmmyak40]

Yes, only Britain is still a member of the EU, which means the "presumption of innocence" should work.

This is not the point here: from the very beginning, there is no direct indication of the presumption of innocence in the English system of law: neither in the Habeas Corpus Act, nor in the Magna Carta. There is, in my opinion, a mention of the obligatoryness of the trial process and something else. But the rule is about the "presumption of innocence." as it is understood in civil law, it was introduced only after joining the EU. But this does not mean at all that this principle operates to the same extent as in our country.

In principle, I am not surprised, but can you give examples anyway?

With examples, I think it will help you Atalef, nevertheless, it is his spouse who has a lawyer , and I just read a little about it in due time. If you do not go into the specifics, then this is the so-called judicial transaction: when the defendant pleads guilty in exchange for the sentence proposed by the judge (usually less than it would have been in the subsequent investigation). And no one should prove anything to anyone !!!
Here, even after confession, the defendant can refuse them and, if the state prosecutor does not have a reliable evidence base, the judge will send him to hell. (in theory, of course).

[dmmyak40]

Alexander, I do not quite understand, is the lawyer your spouse or you yourself?
It’s just that you refer to the system of English law with competence ... In the context of the concept of the presumption of innocence.

They must, the presumption of innocence applies only at the stage of the investigation, after filing the indictment it is no longer there. The person is in status - the accused.

From this place, please, in more detail. First of all, give the concept of the accused of your right (for us - Article 47 of the Code of Criminal Procedure).
And then about the presumption. Tell us a little about her with you, her status ... About the court "deal" and the full-fledged process ... About the burden of proof ...

[dmmyak40]

My wife is a lawyer, here is a lawyer, and we have English law.

Mr. Atalef, why did you shut up, and I was so eagerly awaiting an answer to my question regarding the status of the defendant and the presumption of innocence in Anglo-Saxon law! Not good, darling, not good! You are the husband of a lawyer! THERE A LAWYER!
Do not be shy, my yacht, write! Tea is not Saturday, and you probably are not Shabbat-goy ...

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: atalef

at least the other party must be represented in court,

And to keep the citizens of Russia, those very lively and HEALTHY, citizens of the Skripals and not allow the ambassador to them, is this normal ?? In European? In fair trial? By the way, they did not refuse citizenship! And where is the other side ???
So do not rub here about honest European courts.

[atalef]

Quote: Ramzaj99

And to keep the citizens of Russia, the very living and HEALTHY, citizens of the Skripals and not allow the ambassador to them, is this normal?

Skripal has English citizenship (although this does not play a role in this case 0
Not the ambassador, but the representative of the embassy (the ambassador does not have to meet at all 0 - they must admit if
1. A citizen is in the status of a detainee.
2 He (a citizen) requires a meeting with a representative of the embassy.
Everything else is propaganda.
The violinists are not in the status of detainees and the refusal to meet with the embassy's representatives, Skripal's daughter, was voiced.
Skripal himself, who is an English citizen, is not obligated by the Russian Federation to voice anything at all.

Quote: Ramzaj99

In European?

All according to the law, read above.
They do not want to meet with representatives of the Russian Federation and she sounded it.
It's her right

Quote: Ramzaj99

In fair trial?

Which court 7 was the court?

Quote: Ramzaj99

By the way, they did not refuse citizenship! And where is the other side ???

In the case of Skripal - a citizen of England in general, nothing, local citizenship prevails, in the case of a daughter - read above what I said

Quote: Ramzaj99

So do not rub here about honest European courts

Why European and why courts?

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: atalef

In the case of Skripal - a citizen of England in general, nothing, local citizenship prevails, in the case of a daughter - read above what I said

And who said that they do not want to meet with the Russian ambassador ?? Jewish radio?
Was there a statement from Skripal's daughter that she did not want to return to her homeland?
Maybe she’s dead for a long time, maybe she’s in shackles.
The country is obliged to check whether everything is in order with its citizens. And London is obliged to confirm that they do not want to communicate voluntarily!

[atalef]

Quote: Ramzaj99

And who said that they do not want to meet with the Russian ambassador?

Skripal's daughter officially stated this

The British police issued a statement on behalf of the daughter of the GRU ex-Colonel Sergei Skripal Julia, poisoned in Salisbury. It says that the girl is “starting a new life” and so far does not want to see either the employees of the Russian embassy or her cousin Victoria.


Read more: https://news.tut.by/world/588610.html

Quote: Ramzaj99

Was there a statement from Skripal's daughter that she did not want to return to her homeland?

YES
And she said this, including in a telephone conversation with her cousin.

Quote: Ramzaj99

The country MUST check whether everything is OK with its citizens

She voiced this in an official statement.

Quote: Ramzaj99

London MUST confirm that they do not wish to communicate voluntarily!

Does the statement of the violin itself not suit you?

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: atalef

Does the statement of the violin itself not suit you?

No, it doesn’t!
She didn’t say anything PERSONALLY!
According to the father, sister, special services, journalists: - this is bullshit.
This is inter-state relations and not a village club.
There must be either a certified document, and certified by the Russian side. Or a personal meeting with the ambassador.
Everything else is ...: - read above ....

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

Which court 7 was the court?

In the morning I’m trying to prove that they accused the Russian Federation without any trial.
Really got it?

[KrokodilGena]

Quote: Ramzaj99

And to keep the citizens of Russia, those very lively and HEALTHY, citizens of the Skripals and not allow the ambassador to them, is this normal ??

I doubt that the Squeakers after the attempted murder were eager to meet with the ambassador of that country, which sent its security forces to kill them. No one holds the violins, but protects. Somewhere there was information that the Skripals want to meet with the ambassador of the Russian Federation, but they are not allowed to do this ??

Quote: Ramzaj99

By the way, they did not refuse citizenship!

And what the hell they refuse citizenship ?? Or does it oblige meetings with ambassadors and other officials of the Russian Federation?

[Alex Nevs]

If you went under the cameras, GUILTY? Or have something to say?

[aleks26]

Well, of course, an interview with Simonyan is evidence

No, of course, evidence is the ravings of various bloggers on the Internet.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: atalef

It’s strange how you think why * innocent accusers * in no way tried to prove the opposite and whitewash their name.
At least a testimony?

And why should the innocent prove something?

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Yuri Yaroshevsky

Iranian air defense as well as Russian is famous for getting into passenger planes

Remind about that 154 shot down over the Black Sea, the valiant Ukrainian air defense?

[victor50]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

Remind about that 154 shot down over the Black Sea, the valiant Ukrainian air defense?

And the Iranian plane shot down over the Persian Gulf of the US ship’s air defense ?!

[dmmyak40]

Alexander, you tell the same to the American "diplomats" who "accidentally" went to admire the nature and beauty of the Russian North in a closed zone a couple of months ago. Say by looking into their naive eyes.
As for the Skripal case, but any adequate judge who is not under pressure will send the prosecutor to hell with such evidence.
PS In any case, our traitor? Our. Have the right to liquidate? The answer was Mossad many years ago.

[atalef]

Quote: dmmyak40

Alexander, tell the same to the American "diplomats" who "accidentally" went to admire the nature and beauty of the Russian North in a closed area a couple of months ago

but what does it have to do with it?
Some worked for special services and others did the same.
What is the general question?
only that the Americans were not there by chance - everyone believes (and I, too)
But Petrov and Basharov are certainly tourists.

[dmmyak40]

But with that. It turns out that American diplomats accidentally lost their way when inspecting nature in the ban, and did not get any kind of info. It is truth. One cannot but believe the statements of the State Department.
But our tourists accidentally in Salisberry can not be. It was they who poisoned the Skripals. And the cat. Evidence of their involvement and many strange events related to the incident? Gentlemen take the word.

[atalef]

Quote: dmmyak40

But with that. It turns out that American diplomats accidentally lost their way when inspecting nature in the ban, and did not get any kind of info. It is truth

for whom ? For you ? It’s absolutely clear to me that they were spying.
By the way, what happened to them afterwards?

Quote: dmmyak40

One can’t but believe the statements of the State Department.

And the statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation-is possible?

Quote: dmmyak40

But our tourists accidentally in Salisberry can not be.

Did they at least testify? Maybe the IC of the Russian Federation or the Scotland Yard investigators who wanted to come to the Russian Federation?

Quote: dmmyak40

Gentlemen take the word.

Indeed, a sea of ​​photos of who Petrov and Bashirov are.
From where, the names of the Parents. where they studied, where they served. PHOTOS - but for you, this is certainly not evidence - gentlemen are taken for granted.

[dmmyak40]

By the way, what happened to them afterwards?

They were sent, if not mistaken. The usual procedure.

And the statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation-is possible?

Did I say that you can? Think with your head. True, our foreign minister did not shake test tubes in Sobes ... ... really, right?
Alexander, as I see you, you consider yourself a member of the Western world? Unlike us, Scythians with slanting and greedy eyes ... So, I will reveal the "truth" for you: you need to believe only facts, not words.
Explain to me how we, Russian people, can take the word of those who came up with the proverb: "A gentleman is the master of his word: he wanted to give, wanted to take" (from us: "If you don't give a word, be strong, if you give, hold on"). Those who have repeatedly committed treason against Russia? Forgot the cruiser Maine explosion? The Dardanelles operation? Intervention? Gleiwitz? Powell's test tube? Hailey Likely?
Where after all this may faith in your words come from? As one wise man said: words are empty, and actions speak for themselves.

[atalef]

Quote: dmmyak40

They were sent, if not mistaken. The usual procedure.

Ie they did not believe the word. and we believe Petrov and Bashirov

Quote: dmmyak40

True, our foreign minister did not shake test tubes in Sobes ... ... really, right?

I don’t know why this is 7; you can somehow invade the Tatar-Mongol invasion.
Let's talk more specifically without leaving the topic.

Quote: dmmyak40

Alexander, do you, as I see, consider yourself to be in the Western world? Unlike us, Scythians with slanting and greedy eyes ...

I personally have not seen you, maybe they are really slanted at you, but what does it have to do with it?

Quote: dmmyak40

Explain to me how we, Russian people, can take the word of those who came up with the proverb: "A gentleman is the master of his word: he wanted to give, wanted to take" (from us: "If you don't give a word, be strong, if you give, hold on").

Well, yes - baby talk again.

Quote: dmmyak40

Forgot the cruiser Maine explosion? The Dardanelles operation? Intervention? Gleiwitz? Powell's test tube? Hailey Likely?

and Obama pisses in elevators.

Quote: dmmyak40

As one wise man said: words are empty, and actions speak for themselves.

Here I am about that.
Petrov and Bashirov where are they gone?
Why do not want to whitewash their honest name?

[Prosha]

Here are interesting people in Israel live!))

... I don’t know why this is 7, you can somehow invade the Tatar-Mongol invasion.
Let's talk more specifically without leaving the topic ...

... But the conversation was about Iranian air defense and the Ukrainian plane, but here the theme of the Skripals came up by chance and ...

[dmmyak40]

Ie they did not believe the word. and we believe Petrov and Bashirov

The Americans were in a zone closed to foreigners, i.e. they deliberately violated the ban. What did Petrov and Co. violate? Just specifically answer.

I don’t know why this is 7; you can somehow invade the Tatar-Mongol invasion. Let's talk more specifically without leaving the topic.

If necessary, I will also remember him. Why is Powell's tube? This is a word about trusting the Anglo-Saxons. Remember the parable about the boy and the wolves? The Anglo-Saxons shouted "wolf" so often that they can no longer be trusted.

I personally have not seen you, maybe they are really slanted at you, but what does it have to do with it?

And this is to the fact that we are different: you, Westerners, have the same values, but ours (alas for you) are different. And about the slanting ..., this is a quote from one of the Russian classics of the Silver Age. Google it. And my eyes are ordinary, South Russian, although I was born precisely among the Kalmyk Mongols.

Well, yes - baby talk again.

My dear adult friend! I don’t know exactly how old you are, but I know for sure that you are younger than me. Therefore, behave according to your own age and do not fall into childhood. The verb is like a husband, not a small child.

and Obama pisses in elevators.

Oops! I didn’t know, didn’t know her by God !!! This is an unexpected! Where does such an insider come from? Personally wiped after him, or what?
About the style and semantics of the answer I will not repeat, see the previous koment.

Here I am about that. Petrov and Bashirov where are they gone? Why do not want to whitewash their honest name?

Oh, these fairy tales! Oh, these storytellers! We see one of the favorite tricks of the Anglo-Saxons: to unfairly hang labels, and then invite the opponent to prove that he is not a camel. No, really, gentlemen, Anglo-Jews, the burden of proof of the accusations put forward lies with you and only you! The standard message "responsibility for the consequences that may arise can only be assigned to a gentleman and only to others" will not work with us! You have to answer for the market!

[dmmyak40]

Not tired. If the Secretary of State impudently lied at a meeting of the UN Security Council, then we will always poke the USA at these excrement. What Paeull said I know perfectly well, as well as the fact that this test tube was a placebo.
I can only say one thing to you: you are a giant of thought and well done! But not the father of Russian democracy! Keep it up! A flag in hand and a fair wind without stones in the back!

[dmmyak40]

By the way, what happened to them afterwards?

They were sent, if not mistaken. The usual procedure.

And the statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation-is possible?

Did I say that you can? Think with your head. True, our foreign minister did not shake test tubes in Sobes ... ... really, right?
Alexander, as I see you, you consider yourself a member of the Western world? Unlike us, Scythians with slanting and greedy eyes ... So, I will reveal the "truth" for you: you need to believe only facts, not words.
Explain to me how we, Russian people, can take the word of those who came up with the proverb: "A gentleman is the master of his word: he wanted to give, wanted to take" (from us: "If you don't give a word, be strong, if you give, hold on"). Those who have repeatedly committed treason against Russia? Forgot the cruiser Maine explosion? The Dardanelles operation? Intervention? Gleiwitz? Powell's test tube? Hailey Likely?
Where after all this may faith in your words come from? As one wise man said: words are empty, and actions speak for themselves.

Did they at least testify? Maybe the IC of the Russian Federation or the Scotland Yard investigators who wanted to come to the Russian Federation?

Or maybe it was not necessary to destroy evidence? Or not hide Russian citizens from consular workers? Why did you suddenly decide that Russia should do everything that the Britons requested, and to us on our requests - a cookie with butter?

Indeed, a sea of ​​photos of who Petrov and Bashirov are. From where, the names of the Parents. where they studied, where they served. PHOTOS - but for you, this is certainly not evidence - gentlemen are taken for granted. good

I read your comments and wonder: are you a mentally normal person or has the western paradigm crippled you? How did the photographs, "where", the names of parents, place of study and place of service become evidence of the crime? Or in the West, what is the evidence is determined by the judge? At your leisure, read something from the criminal trial, you will learn a lot.

[Doctor]

It’s absolutely clear to me that they were spying.

Too obvious. Rather, they covered the main ones, diverting the attention of counterintelligence.

[atalef]

Quote: dmmyak40

As for the Skripal case, but any adequate judge who is not under pressure will send the prosecutor to hell with such evidence.

do not make laugh my slippers.

[dmmyak40]

A serious answer, reasoned! And, most importantly, backed up by a lot of things! Bravo! To you and your slippers! Plus ...

[Alex Nevs]

and evidence base

[demo]

Mossad showed much earlier how to deal with traitors, even if they are your own children, Emperor Peter 1.
To withdraw from the place where he sits and the mud pours onto the country, interrogate and condemn.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

well, enough already post a horseradish.

As the Professor once wrote "do not tell a person what to do and the person will not tell you where you need to go"

Quote: atalef

We found where they served, where they serve, what kind of cars they drive, addresses, phone numbers and, most importantly .. photos.
but this is certainly not proof for you - 2 honest businessmen went to admire the cathedral

That is: a photograph of a person, place of work, place of service, car, address, are proof of an attempt to kill a person?

[atalef]

Quote: saturn.mmm

That is: a photograph of a person, place of work, place of service, car, address, are proof of an attempt to kill a person?

for starters - of course not.
But I would say that at least raises great doubts about the veracity of the version voiced by them and what they did there.
And with the condition that in the room where they lived there were traces of the Novice - everything looks even more strange.
Do not find?

[Prosha]

Here you seem to be at odds with logic, explain to me the orphan and the wretched - why wherever this "newbie" is present in relation to the British and squeaks, he is a terrible poison and cripples everyone, even a policeman with a cat, but Bashirov and Ivanov playfully walk around Do Salisbury live in a room with traces of the "newbie" and no fever will take them away?

somehow it looks even weirder.
Do not find?

[garri-lin]

You my friend have seen enough films. Of particular importance and attention-grabbing operations are usually engaged in all sorts of homeless Osvoldi and not the Rameo / cabinet-shaped Petrovs and Vasechkins.

[politach-delivery]

So far, all Bellingcat's investigations have turned out to be true.

[garri-lin]

True, the concept is relative. If 100500 liars say something, this does not become true for people who know that there is true truth.

[Olgovich]

Quote: atalef

What Petrov and ... Vasechkin didn’t just walk through Salisbury clearly even to the stubborn dolbyashchera.

Hans with yankels and so forth walked there. And?

House SCRIPT was shot by SCIENCE SC. And so, cameras and engulfed cameras everywhere throughout England, but on English object. intelligence ...no!

Only a stoned dolly-lizard would believe in such, um, "accident" ..

Dead bodies, by the way, where?

[audigamma]

And there was WMD in Iraq. They deceived the whole WORLD. And England played an important role in this. So to believe them after that is the last thing.

[Major Yurik]

... That Petrov and .. Vasechkin laughing wasn’t just walking through Salisbury clearly even to the stubborn dolphin bearer.

Here before the terrorist attack in our city near St. Petersburg your shulman and Rabinovichi walked, and not one hundred copies! By your logic, is all this not easy? Look, how does the Israeli propaganda bureau work, do they pay a lot for licking the hosts?

[Thompson]

Well, it's already warmer. Following your logic, you are a bumbler.
But to us, normal people, this is not at all clear.

[minomoto]

You say it’s like killing Skripal is something bad. It is a well-known fact that Skripal is a traitor for Russia, under his leadership there were several dozen people whom he passed all of. These people worked undercover in conditions with strong psychological stress and stress, of course they were forced to trust him and to some extent even depended on him, and he betrayed them all for the sake of a silver coin. Just the last rot * and as for me, I turned in my subordinates for personal gain. I'm not talking about the enormous damage that he inflicted on Russia. Naturally, Russia had a full moral right to eliminate it.

[g1v2]

Are you serious? That is, do you seriously believe in this version with Skripal? Not kidding?

[politach-delivery]

5092 posts in half a year. Do you work chtoli here?

[Lipchanin]

I am a pensioner. There is plenty of time. Yes, and trolls like you do not give a nap

[Alex Nevs]

They come here on a kakulam site . And you do not allow them to take off their pants, so they have to put them straight into their pants.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: littoral

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, they even imposed sanctions for unproven violinists

For the proven.

where when when?
By the way, do not tell me how they poisoned them all the same with buckwheat porridge or with gas smeared on the doorknob

[littoral]

Quote: Barmaleyka

Quote: littoral

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, they even imposed sanctions for unproven violinists

For the proven.

where when when?
By the way, do not tell me how they poisoned them all the same with buckwheat porridge or with gas smeared on the doorknob

Go home, get out with this on Reddit or even WOL, and not on this site. You learn a lot.

[Barmaleyka]

poke you will be different and in another
Now on the topic, since they still poisoned with porridge or gas, and how did they manage to kill only one person and a cat by using a BOV in the city ?!

[bycharashkO]

the rating of the message is considered interesting. At the moment it shows 0, and when the cursor is hovered over this zero, "FOR" = 4, "against" = 2 pops up. And how does 4-2 get equal to 0? And this is not only in this message. Maybe I don't understand something?

[Barmaleyka]

reload the page and see that everything is fine

[littoral]

Quote: Barmaleyka

Now on the topic, since they still poisoned with porridge or gas, and how did they manage to kill only one person and a cat by using a BOV in the city ?!

Have you read anything besides Rasha Tudey?

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: littoral

Have you read anything besides Rasha Tudey?

I didn’t read RT on the case of violins, but the BBC was cast out as best it could
Amesbury victim's brother: "Newbie" was in a perfume bottle
https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-44841416
Police find source of Novichok poisoning in Amesbury
https://www.bbc.com/russian/44827497
New details of the Skripal case: "Novice" was found on the doorstep of the poisoned agent's house
https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-43577681

According to BBC Safety Correspondent Gordon Korera, the highest concentration of the substance was found on the doorknob of the Skripals house. The substance could be added to the sticky mass applied to the door handle, says Gordon Korera.

This, according to the BBC correspondent, explains the fact that the poisonous substance was found on Skripal's car, as well as in a restaurant where he had lunch with his daughter.

[cradle]

what are the evidence of evasion ?! Is the cat healthy?

[atalef]

Quote: Lipchanin

To whom ??? Us???

of course

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, they even imposed sanctions for unproven violinists and sent diplomats.

for Boeing - the same.

Quote: Lipchanin

And here why then not "leave room for a compromise."?

not the country to leave this place for her and not in that position.
They tried to deny, you think at the first moment they didn’t know that they had failed (or like shooters with their posts?).
They knew whether they would analyze it or not, when they realized that there is nowhere to go.
Of course piled on the States - which were not there at all.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: atalef

of course

What of course?
And how many years will this "chance" last?

not the country to leave this place for her and not in that position.

Double standards again
So after all, they told the whole world that they would not show evidence to anyone

[Andrey VOV]

Don’t argue with this stubborn mentally retarded .. don’t waste time ... such as it’s a great Russian proverb for dew and eyes .... I won’t give it completely, because the strange rules of the site can make me this

[aszzz888]

Lipchanin (Sergey) Today, 08: 48 Andrey VOV (Andrey) Today, 09:01
+3
Yes, do not argue with this stubborn mentally retarded .. do not waste time... such as he fits perfectly Russian proverb on dew and eyes .... I will not give completely, because the strange rules of the site can me this

True says, Andrei VOV, it is not worth it. It rubs here for a long time, but all the time it bends ONE OWN. To prove anything is useless, and to your own detriment. Sergei, !

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

not the country to leave this place for her and not in that position.

Quote: atalef

Quote: Lipchanin
Well, where are the conclusions about Boeing?
"They are there, but we won't show them to you"?
Something they don’t remember about it

The US still leaves room for compromise.

Something with memory?

[Alex Nevs]

And I don’t see a gopher ...

[Commissar77]

Yeah, the Iranians surprised me. I thought they would refuse, maybe they could find some pilot Voloshin, probably they thought that it would cost less

[atalef]

Quote: Military Commissar77

Yeah, the Iranians surprised me. I thought they would refuse, maybe they could find some pilot Voloshin, probably they thought that it would cost less

then completely sour.
Voloshin then why bring down an airplane over Tehran
Yes, and Jews are hard to drag, such as beaten on them, shot down - not that
Get out the same way

[Commissar77]

Well, maybe then the Spanish dispatcher?

[atalef]

Quote: Military Commissar77

Well, maybe then the Spanish dispatcher?

where so many dispatchers pick up?

[max702]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Military Commissar77

Well, maybe then the Spanish dispatcher?

where so many dispatchers pick up?

In the 404th there are wonderful invisible dispatchers .. How what questions do they immediately become invisible to them ..

[grandson of Perun]

Quote: atalef

Yes, and Jews are hard to drag

And here you hit the sky with your finger.
WikiLeaks published the correspondence between "ours" (owners of both Russian and Israeli passports) with the Israelis about the exchange of codes.
"Ours" gave the Israelis the codes from the Iranian Tori-M1, the Israelis gave "our" codes from the drones, which were used by the Georgian army.
So the Jews had the opportunity to provoke the Torah of Iranian air defense.
https://oko-planet.su/politik/newsday/554290-wikileaks-moskva-predostavila-izrailyu-kody-dlya-sistem-vozdushnoy-oborony-irana-tor-m1.html

[lopvlad]

Quote: Military Commissar77

I thought they would refuse

so they are not a non-state of the "Sumerians" who are not used to being responsible for their actions and hiding for the West. Iran is a great country that, if something really does, then admits its guilt.

[Commissar77]

Maybe so. It is strange that many members of the forum denied the version that the plane was shot down despite the fact that a lot indicated this. Denied only because the Americans were the first to announce this version? They have many satellites over Iran.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Military Commissar77

It is strange that many members of the forum denied the version that the plane was shot down despite the fact that a lot indicated this. Denied only because the Americans were the first about this version announced? They have many satellites over Iran.

No, because the Americans always LIE.

Therefore, even when they sometimes tell the truth, they no longer believe

[Prosha]

And the question still does not leave me, how did the individual, who filmed everything, end up on the spot in time? Who told him - where, when and what to shoot? Probably the chief of the Iranian General Staff said: "Sit and wait, the missile will fly into the plane!"
Even with all the confessions, all of this is strange ...

[syndicalist]

I didn’t expect it either. Especially when you consider that even Zelensky constantly urged not to make hasty conclusions.

[anykin]

Quote: RUSS

Only a stubborn cheer patriot mbired by a putivist does not believe that Skripaley travuli ours.

All of Russia has no doubt that yours and they trawled.

[IGOR GORDEEV]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, they even imposed sanctions for unproven violinists and sent diplomats.

Only a stubborn cheer patriot mbired by a putivist does not believe that Skripaley travuli ours.

Swearing is prohibited on the site ... Barely restrained himself, reading the commentator of "Russ". Tfu.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Lipchanin

Well, where are the conclusions about Boeing?
"They are there, but we won't show them to you"?
Something they don’t remember about it

The US still leaves room for compromise.
It comes to trial - they will voice it.

In the case of a downed Boeing over the Donbass, the United States are accomplices of dill. The case will reach the court - there will be voiced.

[atalef]

Quote: Nyrobsky

In the case of a downed Boeing over the Donbass, the United States are accomplices of dill. The case will reach the court - there will be voiced.

Or Russia accomplices of the militias.
There are 2 versions so far.

[cradle]

the root word "bye"

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Nyrobsky

In the case of a downed Boeing over the Donbass, the United States are accomplices of dill. The case will reach the court - there will be voiced.

Or Russia accomplices of the militias.

I see no logic. As always, the question arises - "To whom was it profitable?" Russia did not have any buns from the fact that it would shoot down a passenger plane, but the interest of mattresses in finding a tool that would allow pressure on Russia is clearly traced.

[Tank jacket]

Which court? Honest and unbiased? And who are the judges?

[valeryb]

Quote: Tank jacket

Which court? Honest and unbiased? And who are the judges?

Shaw, is it not enough? there are in London and in Stockholm.

[Tank jacket]

Excuse me, but these are sharashkin's offices. Gazprom and the latter got from Stockholm at the suit of Naftogaz ... "Ukraine is poor, the EU did not give money and therefore you must" ...

[Senior manager]

It’s strange to read

Quote: atalef

It comes to trial - they will voice it.

An objective court can remember, and should, about Adolf Aloizovich.

[Butchcassidy]

The USA and the court are things from parallel universes.

[figwam]

An interesting picture is obtained, the plane "accidentally" took off with a delay of an hour, after flying for several minutes it turned without permission from the ground and, keeping radio silence, went towards the Iranian military facility, just at that time an American spy satellite "accidentally" flew by and recorded the work of the Iranian The air defense, which was put on maximum alert, just woke up a local resident by accident and began just at this time to "accidentally" shoot a rocket launch in the night sky that lasted a couple of seconds. Iran needs to thoroughly investigate, too many coincidences, very much like a planned provocation.

[qQQQ]

Quote: figvam

unauthorizedly turned around without permission from the ground and keeping radio silence went towards the military facility of Iran

Yesterday, in passing, a version slipped through that they put a remote control system on the Boeing that can be controlled from the ground, ignoring the pilots, so the version of the sacred sacrifice very much has a place to be.

[Crystal of Truth]

In March, the trial will begin .. Here they will show

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

In this message, I simply send greetings to everyone who has been proving to me for the past two days that I have been hiring the West, a troll, a liar, I have the wrong logic and so on. Well, whose picture of the world turned out to be adequate, and whose - not?

[Andrey VOV]

Buy yourself a gingerbread, hang it on the wall and beat yourself in the chest every morning with happiness

[cradle]

transmitting? So who are you after that?

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: viking1703

western versions of downed planes are more truthful

Are you talking about Korean Boeing in the Far East?

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: viking1703

Now the West will poke in the face that their versions always hit the nail on the head.

What is there to poke? Everyone can build a logical chain in accordance with their level of thinking:

Tu-154 crashes over the Black Sea - everyone denies guilt - the US says its satellite detected the launch of missiles from Ukraine - Ukraine admits

Boeing 737 crashes over Iran - everyone denies blame - USA says its satellite has detected the launch of missiles from Iran - Iran admits

Boeing 777 crashes over Donbass - everyone denies blame - USA says that their satellite detected the launch of missiles from the territory under the control of militias - (???)

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Tu-154 crashes over the Black Sea - everyone denies guilt - the US says its satellite detected the launch of missiles from Ukraine - Ukraine admits

And here it is not necessary to lie)))!
I will update your memory .......
Ukraine refused to the last, spat on all the evidence, and only when the Pope called and said “it's time to confess,” they admitted something there, while President Kuchma said that this was not a tragedy, there are tragedies and worse.
but then suddenly: -
The plane was shot down on October 4, 2001
And in January 2011, despite all the evidence received, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine closed the criminal case, the Kiev Court of Appeal determined that the investigators of the Interstate Aviation Committee could not prove that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian rocket.
Checkmate)

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

What is there to poke? Everyone can build in accordance with their level of thinking. logical chain:

)

There is a virgin, there’s no logic

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Tu-154 crashes over the Black Sea - everyone denies guilt - the US says its satellite detected the launch of missiles from Ukraine - Ukraine admits

And who else could bring down over that water area? Only they shot.

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Boeing 737 crashes over Iran - everyone denies blame - USA says its satellite has detected the launch of missiles from Iran - Iran admits

And who else could shoot in the center of the country?

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Boeing 777 crashes over Donbass - everyone denies blame - USA says their satellite has detected the launch of missiles from territory under the control of militias

To get it: there were TWO ukroBUKOV in the same area.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

In the first two cases, there was a launch from the installation of air defense systems of these countries. A linden drawn by the ears that the SOU from the BUK were brought to the militia to repel the assault strikes? Excuse me, but as a person who served in the division of BUKs I laugh in your face

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

as a man who served in the division of BUK

Then if you allow the question: what is the probability of knocking down 777 at a speed of 0,82 and an altitude of 9k with only one JMA from the BUK? This is far from the possibilities of the whole complex

[Alexander Seklitsky]

JMA itself can overwhelm a beech. Having either external target designation from the radar or knowing a clear route of the aircraft and its level. Since the viewing angle of the onboard SDA is small and covers only a small sector in the horizon. The self-propelled guns are only part of the complex and are not designed to operate autonomously. Therefore, the version that the self-propelled guns were fitted up to militia to repel attacks is not stand up to criticism. For these purposes, they would fit the TOP or Shell

[Pete mitchell]

If simple: then the target must be brought out into a rather narrow area of ​​space, so that the interception is

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Absolutely.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

JMA is only part of the complex and is not intended for autonomous operation.

Here at 4:05 they say what is intended:

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Here at 4:05 they say what is intended:

They say that it can work autonomously, but is not intended for this. Even in the story, the videos talk about it. The coverage area of ​​one radar station is 120 degrees. It is not suitable for circular reflection of attacks. For work, it needs a ROM for reloading and for volley with two missiles. Well, for constant combat work, another diesel generator set

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

I assume that if the installation has an offline mode (outside the complex) with the function of searching for targets, it is unlikely that it was added simply for the sake of fun and with the realization that it is practically impossible to use it in combat conditions.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

In combat conditions, no one will use the sow on its own. This is not a combat unit. A combat unit is a battery. 2 SOU 1 ROM under the command of an officer.

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

with the goal search function,

A radar on a JMA is not for searching for targets, but for highlighting a target for a missile. The algorithm of action is this: SOC detects targets and gives an indication of the desired sector for the JMA. The SOU takes the target for escort and decides on the attack. An attack can be either a single missile or a salvo using ROM as a launch pad

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

The radar on the JMA is not for finding targets, but for highlighting targets for missiles.

The 9C35 radar has a target search mode. It is a fact.

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

In combat, no one will use the sow on its own. This is not a combat unit.

"Nobody will" is your opinion. The availability of the autonomous operation mode provided by the developers is a fact.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

The 9C35 radar has a target search mode. It is a fact.

Search for targets in the 120 degree sector. There is no round-robin view. This is a fact.

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

"Nobody will" is your opinion.

This is not my opinion. This is a practice of application. Do not write nonsense if you did not have the slightest relation to air defense and the army as a whole, and all your knowledge is based on a video from the TV channel Star. I have no desire to explain the truth to NUB. One tank can also fight autonomously, but not for long and with dubious effectiveness. For without infantry and reconnaissance it will be quickly destroyed. The situation is the same with a single self-propelled firing system. This is not the installation that is designed to cover troops on the march. Firstly, it moves without missiles. Missiles are placed on guides after deployment. Secondly, I repeat, the viewing sector is limited. This means that there is almost no sense in it when attacking the enemy. Third, after firing four missiles, reloading is needed. Have you ever seen a branch in itself? No, it is part of the battery under the command of an officer. Yes, the JMA can operate autonomously, but at the same time carry out a very narrow range of tasks for a limited time. Let’s say they instructed her to control a certain sector for an hour, she will control it.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

Yes, the JMA can operate autonomously, but at the same time carry out a very narrow range of tasks for a limited time. Let’s say that they instructed her to control a certain sector for an hour, she will control it.

Yes, this is a reasonable conclusion, we agreed with this.

The next step - you believe that no one will do this, because it is impractical. The problem with this reasoning is that you are trying to draw universal conclusions from your logic, like "nobody will"But in order to draw such conclusions, an implicit assumption is necessary that every other person, without exception, has the same experience as you, the same knowledge as you, pursues the same goals as you, argues in the same way that and you. ”This is an incredibly strong assumption, and to put it bluntly, I think it’s wrong.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

And let's do without puns. Summing up, I’ll say that the version that the self-propelled guns from the BUK M1 air defense system were brought in to repel the APU assault attacks does not stand up to criticism, and only the last layman can believe in it. The reasons why this is so I painted above. I will not repeat

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Alexander Seklitsky

And let's do without puns.

My previous post is quite logically correct. Can you indicate a logical error in it?

[victor50]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Boeing 777 crashes over Donbass - everyone denies blame - USA says that their satellite detected the launch of missiles from the territory under the control of militias - (???)

And here: either a rocket launched by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, or a Su-25, or someone admits something. Who came up with the Su-25? If we did not shoot down, then this Su-25 will still be seriously used against us. It nullifies the clear conclusions of the Almaz-Antey specialists.

[audigamma]

I’ll remind you personally. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. AND?????????

[anykin]

Quote: viking1703

western versions of downed planes are more truthful

Russian television star Michael Bom has long ceased to refer to the Western media as the truth) And he had such a crown))

[atalef]

Quote: anykin

Russian television star Michael Bom has long ceased to refer to the Western media as the truth) And he had such a crown))

Citizenship had to be obtained (Russian)

You still say that there are independent experts on Russian television

[dmmyak40]

You still say that there are independent experts on Russian television

Exactly as many independent experts as in the USA, Great Britain, France, Germany and Israel. And they’ll be taken off the air if the girl says that it was not Russia who attacked ...

[CYM]

In these "truthful" versions, there are still no testimonies of dispatchers who sent Boeing over a combat zone with the use of air defense. In addition, Ukraine insists that the DPR is its territory, and if so, it does not matter who shot down and what shot down, Boeing and its passengers were under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: CYM

In these "truthful" versions, there are still no testimonies of dispatchers who sent Boeing over a combat zone with the use of air defense.

No one already knows where these dispatchers are missing. There is a strong understanding that they have already been strangled by the handles of the SBU under the control of the CIA.

[freejack]

maybe Ukraine shot down, and maybe the DNI

How did your language turn? The downed Boeing in the sky of the outskirts and the downed Boeing in the sky of Iran are two completely different stories ....
They have in common only the word "Boeing" and innocent victims .... blessed memory to them! Amen!

[prodd]

Russia also admits that it shot down mn17. It just takes time. All the evidence for this. And I will get minuses again, as in the case with the comments that Iran shot down the Ukrainian.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: prodd

All the evidence for this.

Where is the main thing?
Here it was immediately found.

This conclusion was made by American intelligence, having studied satellite images and the circumstances of the crash of the aircraft.

Why haven't they published this "evidence" until now? After all, if the RF is to blame, what are they waiting for?

[YOUR]

Quote: prodd

The Dutch identified the rocket launch point, showed photos of the inversion track with reference to the terrain, showed numerous photos of the video of transporting the beech. The Americans said that infrared satellites saw a rocket launch from under the snow

I have not read such nonsense. But when everything happens for the first time.

[Abbot]

Firstly, many have read the report, and not you alone. Secondly, the report is not based on objective monitoring data, or on the testimony of dispatchers, nor on satellite reconnaissance data, nor on the identification data of rocket fragments found at the crash site. Thirdly, the allegations were made long before the publication of the report. Fourth, others have reasonable doubts about your adequate perception of the text of the report. Well, and finally, if you have analogies, then the Ukrainian state and the Armed Forces are primarily responsible for the crash of flight MH17 in the airspace of Ukraine. They also had to conduct an investigation with the involvement of interested parties, as Iran did.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: prodd

What are the data of objective control? From my Russian Federation?

No. From APU.

As they still believe that the Boeing brought down Su 25, they did not make other statements.

Again a lie.
By the serial number of the rocket, published by the way by the Dutch, it was found out that this rocket was transferred to Ukraine 30 years ago.

Whose American space scan data? So they said where the air defense system was fired from.

Lying again. They said that there is evidence, it is not clear what, but they will not show it.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: prodd

The Dutch identified the rocket launch point, showed a photo of the inversion trail with reference to the terrain

But they didn’t show whose Buk was firing. Or is it possible to determine "nationality" by the contrail?

showed numerous photos of video transportation of beech.

Taken from social networks and recognized as fakes

The Americans said that infrared satellites saw a rocket launch from under the snow.

Apparently you have forgotten their famous phrase, "We have evidence, but we will not show them to you"?

To all this, the Russians showed a copy of the magazine, which says that the rocket found was sent 30 years ago to Ukraine.

Well, firstly, not a magazine, but magazines, and secondly, what can we talk about if such a missile was on the territory of Ukraine?
And why then were the shots of the rocket engine with its number gone?
Well, then, what did the air defense of Ukraine do in the combat zone?
Does LDNR have an air force?

[Andrey VOV]

AN 26 shot down from MANPADS in general .. miracle you are a man ....

[Andrey VOV]

did you see him this drushlag? or just photos and statements of the general staff of the ukroarmi? so better be quiet, get off smart ... or else you’ll start drawing parallels from the time of the king of peas and posing as all this truth ..

[Lipchanin]

Quote: prodd

What evidence should the Americans show? Rocket launch?

What do they have. They themselves said that they are, but they will not show.
Nobody pulled their tongue

What you need ?

Nothing for me.
But this seems to you enough

showed a photo of the inversion trace

The Dutch were apparently sitting in the bushes?

Ukraine’s air defense, I think exactly like Russian air defense, is always in the zone of operation of ground forces, especially given the fact that Russia has overcome the Crimea with the help of the armed forces.

What does Crimea have to do with it?
And the air defense is there, where there is a threat of air force use. I’ll ask again, does LDP have IT?

and Russian channels rejoiced at the downing of a Boeing.

After such a Nonsense I will not say the words TO YOU anymore !!!!

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Tell me, did Russia bring the beech to the DNI so that the Boeing would fill up? However, with logic you don’t have any

[Olgovich]

Quote: prodd

showed a photo of the inversion trace with reference to the terrain,

Diamond -Antey convincingly showed -From where they fired UK.ry

Quote: prodd

showed numerous photos of video transportation of beech

Into their tube and into there, yes.

Quote: prodd

. The Americans said that infrared satellites saw a rocket launch from under the snow

They showed a test tube with WMD from the UN rostrum, if they forgot.

Quote: prodd

To all this, the Russians showed a copy of the magazine, which says that the rocket found was sent 30 years ago to Ukraine.

It was this missile that was presented by the Dutch themselves, as if it had shot down a Boeing.
And she is UKR.

[GenNick]

Good day, Lipchanin ...

[Lipchanin]

Not really...
But FSE is equally nice

[Andrey VOV]

admit that you have problems, it will be better

[lopvlad]

Quote: prodd

Russia also admits that it shot down mn17

The Russia of Kozyrev and Yeltsin ended in the 90s, and its adherents only had to remember those "golden" times for them on the echo of matzo and in the temples of the Yeltsin centers.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: prodd

All the evidence for this.

bring at least one

[Olgovich]

Quote: prodd

Russia also admits that it shot down mn17. It just takes time. All the evidence for this.

Never. For it was not.
Like evidence-NO. No one.

[victor50]

Quote: prodd

Russia also admits that it shot down mn17.

May be. But in any case, Ukraine is primarily to blame - there was no ban on flights! Although the whole world turns a blind eye to this fact. If ours - then shot down by mistake. But if Ukraine is consciously, vilely!

[cradle]

honestly minus did not set. I think this is superfluous.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

Here it is - the face of a cheer patriot. Even savages from Iran found the courage to admit a mistake, and this pilot MH-17 still knocks down a pilot Voloshin. God's dew.

[NKT]

Voloshin was eliminated so as not to blurt out. And the wild country 404 did not admit that the Tu-154 failed and the Boeing 777, such is it, you are right.

[RUSS]

Quote: Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)

Here it is - the face of a cheer patriot. Even savages from Iran found the courage to admit a mistake, and this pilot MH-17 still knocks down a pilot Voloshin. God's dew.

How real convicts go to the full negative, therefore, we are treated abroad as gopniks, gopniks at the state level

[Barmaleyka]

comparing your country with convicts is cool
Isn’t living disgusting?

[Olgovich]

Quote: RUSS

How real convicts go to full negatives, so to us abroad attitude towards gopniks, gopniks at the state level

this "abroad" killed a MILLION people in Iraq on the basis of ..... a false test tube.
He bombed Libya into the Stone Age, for no reason.
He nurtured al-Qaeda and ISIS-to the West they were not there.
Etc.

And ALL the West denies.

So WHO is a gopnik?

[RUSS]

Quote: Olgovich

So WHO is a gopnik?

Of course, everyone violates international law in one way or another, BUT the "gopnik" does everything on the sly, and the gangster West and the United States openly

[Olgovich]

Quote: RUSS

Of course, everyone in one way or another violates international law, BUT "gopnik" doing everything quietly, and gangster West and US Open

Do not gangsters talk about gopnik.

[cradle]

do not drag us to you.

[Prosha]

You are treated abroad as traitors who do not cost anything to turn to where it is profitable in any awesome case!

[CYM]

These "savages" built stone palaces when we Slavs still lived in dugouts. They admitted that they had shot down the plane in OWN airspace. But the dill savages are trying to blame their neighbor with all their might for the plane shot down in their airspace. By the way, there is a very convincing version that the MH-17 was not shot down at all, but there was still an explosion inside the plane: the bodies of the pilots are intact and without traces of damaging elements, the air duct from the middle of the cabin burnt from the inside, the sensors in the tail of the plane were instantly turned off. And if the explosion was inside, then it was a school of Dutchmen, then they jump out of their pants proving the version with a rocket.

[Karaul73]

This Russia must do something! At the top they know what. True, though in decades to become known.

[Andrey VOV]

They pulled out pan-devilish devils .... oh, pulled them out .. well, okay .. drop on the fan, maybe it will make you feel better

[victor50]

Quote: Sentry73

This Russia must do something! At the top they know what. True, though in decades to become known.

Well yes? How about Korean Boeing? I missed something - the USA admitted to the provocation ?!

[cradle]

Of course, claims on the country 404 will become and fly.

[Chaldon48]

It is unlikely that Ukraine will admit it, it takes an example from its best friend the United States, they also did not want to apologize when their rocket taking off from an American destroyer shot down a passenger plane.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

The United States acknowledged its responsibility in less than a day.

[Chaldon48]

However, the US President categorically refused to apologize to the injured party.

[max702]

Quote: Flame

Should the outskirts also recognize the downed Boeing and apologize to Russia?

Until then, they didn’t admit that they shot down the TU-154 .. And they didn’t recognize the Siberia Airlines (so as not to pay the victims) before Israel they recognized everything and paid it right .. They recognize the Boeing yeah .. Although looking at this tragedy, you need to think about karma ..

[venik]

Quote: Flame

Should the outskirts also recognize the downed Boeing and apologize to Russia?

=======
Actually, first of all, in front of Malaysia, the Netherlands and other countries whose citizens died. And before Russia-for slander!

[The popuas]

Before Malaysia ... Russia in general, not in business ...

[Olis]

Ukrainian pilot of the SU-25 attack aircraft Vladislav Voloshin who shot down a Boeing 777 of flight MH-17 committed suicide!
Ukraine got out again, and Raziyushka will have to answer .. Already tears are pouring into my eyes
when I watch Dmiriy Kisilev.

[Osya Bender]

Something you don't hear the jolly banter of the pots-heads about the death of their plane, or can they, and the French freaks from Charlie Eppo, only sneer at the Russians who died in plane crashes?

[Olis]

Zadorov died and there was no one to joke about this "the plane fell because it was heavier than air."

[KrokodilGena]

Quote: Flame

Should the outskirts also recognize the downed Boeing and apologize to Russia?

And admit, all three of the most truthful versions of the Defense Ministry, the General Staff and the Kremlin? After all, Boeing over Ukraine shot down the MiG-29, along with the Su-25, with the help of dispatcher Carlos, who quietly dragged the Buk there .. I advise you to read the comments of the "patriots" who, together with the zombies, poured out tons of emoticons of nonsense and nonsense, instead of to follow the investigation. I really don’t know, but the Iranian trolls also tore their ass in the open spaces of the Internet, also otmazyvayut responsible for the downed Boeing over Donbass?

[mmaxx]

After the obvious Tu-154 over the Black Sea, no one forced this Ukraine to take this case for itself. And Boeing will never be recognized. The essence of the Bandera people is as follows.

[1976AG]

Quote: Flame

Should the outskirts also recognize the downed Boeing and apologize to Russia?

They have not yet apologized for the plane shot down during the exercises during the time of Kuchma.

[Basil50]

Iranians are no less * stubborn * than Ukrainians.
Remember how the Ukrainians shot down a RUSSIAN airplane and still lie a lot of things about that event.
What are the Iranians once confessed to? Usually they do not recognize even the obvious.
Apparently there are reasons. AND?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Vasily50

Remember how the Ukrainians shot down a RUSSIAN airplane and still lie a lot of things about that event.

But quiet compensation was paid to all but citizens of the Russian Federation

[Moon]

Quote: Lipchanin

But quiet compensation was paid to all but citizens of the Russian Federation

to all the relatives of the victims. Without a difference of nationality
Refused to Russian companies.
Information is available

Ukraine in 2003 signed intergovernmental agreements with Russia and Israel on compensation for the relatives of those killed in a plane crash without legal admission of guilt. In accordance with these agreements, Ukraine paid 200 thousand US dollars for each victim - 7,8 million dollars to Russia and 7,5 million dollars to Israel
In accordance with the Claims Settlement Agreement signed by Russia and Ukraine on December 26, 2003, the Ukrainian government transferred $ 7 to pay relatives of the deceased Russian passengers. Compensation was paid ex gratia, that is, without recognition of legal liability. Relatives of Israeli passengers were paid $ 809 million

similarly the US paid the Iranians
300 dollars for each able-bodied victim and 000 for each dependent

[Kamikaze19]

And the point is to deny? All the same, black boxes would show everything. And what will it be for the Iranians? Absolutely nothing. They have already said that this is due to US adventurism. They will pay compensation to relatives and all. And to deny stupidly they only spite worse with 100% evidence

[atalef]

Quote: Kamikadze19

And the point is to deny?

A type recognized immediately and did not know that shot down?

[NKT]

The Americans paid $ 300 thousand, but refused to pay compensation for the sun. Reagan said there was a defensive need. Well, the "heroes" of the order were given.

[Ironcity]

This is normal people understand, but there are more others who bend their version in spite of everything. For example, even after all the Dutch examinations and the Almaz-Antey experiment, the website of the Russian Union of Engineers still has a conclusion according to which the Boeing was shot down over the Donbas by a fighter's rocket and cannon armament. If only they removed it already, they would not disgrace themselves, "engineers".

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Kamikadze19

And the point is to deny? All the same, black boxes would show everything.

there is no denying a reason, the investigation (multinational of all involved) began right away, it’s impossible to hide the traces, only I don’t agree with the black boxes, on the Malaysian Boeing there’s just a telemetry break and no evidence of a missile hit, here, I think, the same way.

[RussianRoulette]

Undisputed proofs mattresses they probably brought.

[Doctor]

Apparently there are reasons. AND?

Many Iranians are among the dead.

[kjhg]

Quote: viking1703

let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

They are victims of propaganda. It has been scientifically proven that 93% of people do not use analytical thinking. They do not think and do not analyze what is happening. They have such an opportunity, but they do not use it. Most accept information provided to them by the media and people to whom they have developed trust. He will tell them, for example, Navalny or Makarevich the truth about some event, and Soloviev or Kiselev will say that this is not so, that they are lying. Who will most believe? Of course to the propagandists. After all, they have already been laced with brains who can be trusted and who not. Now this majority is ready to believe and believes even the most obvious lies. This is used to the fullest by the authorities.

[Stas157]

About the adequacy. The site’s floor, self-confidently, was screaming that the United States had overwhelmed the plane and completely dismissed that the Iranians did it. Today's news shows what your opinions really are.

Already a new word is being heard, they say, what the Iranians are good fellows, that they confessed ... But they confessed not immediately, but under pressure. At first, these "fellows" denied everything. But this is somehow overlooked.

[kjhg]

Quote: Stas157

Almost the entire site, quite confidently, screamed that the United States had overwhelmed the plane. Today's news shows what your opinions really are.

I didn’t scream like that. Quite the contrary, I wrote, it is strange that, the first: the time of the fall falls several hours after the murder of Suleimani; second: the aircraft is almost new and reliable; third and most important: the Iranians claimed that there was no connection with the plane. And it is near the airport right after take-off! In the fall frames, it is clear that the plane did not collapse in the air, but decreased at an angle, i.e. fell smoothly enough.

[Stas157]

Of course, I didn’t mean you. On the contrary, I agree with your opinion.

[asv363]

Quote: kjhg

Quite the contrary, I wrote, it is strange that, the first: the time of the fall falls several hours after the murder of Suleimani;

The plane crashed on January 3, are you adequate?

[lopvlad]

Quote: kjhg

It has been scientifically proven that 93% of people do not use analytical thinking. They do not think and do not analyze what is happening. They have such an opportunity, but they do not use it. Most accept information provided to them by the media and people to whom they have developed trust.

it only seems to you. In reality, it is precisely 93% who use analytical thinking and therefore in Russia the president is not the boy Alyosha trained with money from the State Department but uncle Volodya from Leningrad.

[valeryb]

Quote: lopvlad

In reality, 93% use analytical thinking

Whose? Well mikhanov, mikhanov is, and what to do?

[prodd]

And as a result?

[Moskovit]

It’s good that they still didn’t name the victims of abortions. I am always pleased with people, there are especially many of them in the liberal democratic camp, who, when they disagree with their point of view, immediately write down their opponents in duped zombies.

[Edik]

Quote: viking1703

all right. let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. apologize to them and admit that they were wrong

I didn’t see anyone laughing at this yesterday! My version was that this was another provocation of the USA! Repent? Do not wait!

[viking1703]

just enough usa to attract ears everywhere. they are not so omnipotent!

[Edik]

Quote: viking1703

just enough usa to attract ears everywhere. they are not so omnipotent!

Well, yes! The sanctions have been imposed on everyone and the lawlessness in the world! How many countries have they destroyed? And the provocation is their calling card! And Trump's GDP personally brought to power!

[RUSS]

Quote: Edik

Well, yes, sanctions have been imposed on everyone and may be lawless in the world

Well, enter retaliatory sanctions, and about lawlessness, so, and how are we different? PMC Wagner, Squeaked, Crimea, DNR, LC, etc.

[cradle]

you can not understand

[valeryb]

Quote: Edik

Well, yes! The sanctions have been imposed on everyone and the lawlessness in the world! How many countries have they destroyed? And the provocation is their calling card! And Trump's GDP personally brought to power!

It sounds like oh oh oh, give you a handkerchief?

[Olgovich]

Quote: viking1703

just enough usa to attract ears everywhere. they are not so omnipotent!

If they had not killed Suleymani, the passengers of the plane would have been alive.

Hope this is not in dispute?

If they hadn’t sung to Iraq (by test tube), there would have lived 1 million more people, there would have been 2 million more Christians and there would have been no ISIS. Also obvious, I think.

[Kamikaze19]

So in essence this is the provocation of the United States. If they hadn’t killed Suleimani, the Ukrainian letak would have been safe

[Edik]

Quote: viking1703

It turns out Strelkov's provocation led to the downing of a Boeing.

To the thousands of dead Russians and the crushing of Ukraine!

[NKT]

The coup in Ukraine is the beginning of all beginnings. Claims to the seller of cookies.

[RUSS]

Quote: NKT

The coup in Ukraine is the beginning of all beginnings. Claims to the seller of cookies.

If not for cookies, you will not see Crimea

[Yves762]

Quote: RUSS

If not for cookies, you will not see Crimea

If it were not for the cookies, Crimea would not have been necessary .... "see."

[lopvlad]

Quote: viking1703

the shooters wouldn’t start seizing the Donbass cities and there wouldn’t be a downed Boeing in the Donbass. So by the lice of logic.

there would be no coup in Kiev and no one would have heard of any rifle.
A normal country during military operations closes this area for civil aviation flights, while an abnormal country does not provide dispatcher data, black box data, pilot talks, etc. for all to see.

[atalef]

Quote: lopvlad

there would be no coup in Kiev and no one would have heard of any rifle

if Lenin had not given these territories to Ukraine, it would not have happened.
Lenia with ... is to blame.
And Stalin, by the way, is the same.

Quote: lopvlad

A normal country during military operations closes this area for civil aviation flights and an abnormal provides

beeches are at the disposal of the militias.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: atalef

beeches are at the disposal of the militias.

And when was Russia transferred to the DNU BUK complex? For what purpose? We would like to cover the DNI army, we would fit a couple of Tunguska or shell.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

If you were even more competent than a full kettle, you would know that the JMA alone is never used and is only an integral part of the BUK complex.

[edmed]

Quote: atalef

if Lenin had not given these territories to Ukraine, it would not have happened.
Lenia with ... is to blame.
And Stalin, by the way, is the same.

Dinosaurs are to blame for everything, wouldn’t measure out, then

Quote: atalef

would not have happened.

[lopvlad]

Quote: atalef

beeches are at the disposal of the militias.

Apparently the very ones who can remotely shoot a rocket standing in the arsenal of beech trees located in the Lviv region. Even the Dutch investigators on this occasion realized that they managed the rocket to the fullest and you still twist the barrel organ.

[Olgovich]

Quote: viking1703

Well, that means that the shooters would not have taken the capture of the Donbass cities and there would have been no downed Boeing in the Donbass. So by the lice of logic. It turns out Strelkov's provocation led to the downing of a Boeing.

There would be no fascist coup in Kiev in February 2014, there would be no Donbass.

If there were no desire of local residents, no girkin would have lasted a day. how many DIVISIONS he led to "capture" dozens of cities. and?

Obviously not?

[lopvlad]

Quote: Kamikadze19

so the ukrainian letak would be intact

once again, for the lawlessness of the United States paid their allies, whose citizens on the plane were more than half.

[carstorm 11]

they have a right. it’s the same as in that saying, the spoons were found and ... we have already been taught not to believe all these statements. Iran acted courageously and admitted the mistake after a few days. recall the decision of the Ukrainian court that it has not been proved that their rocket shot down that 154 over the Black Sea? already in 2011 by the way. or what kind of circus was it, then the missiles were without warheads at launches, is it still all nonsense? this is an instinct not to believe anything they say

[atalef]

Quote: carstorm 11

Iran acted courageously and admitted the mistake after a few days.

When I realized that there’s nowhere to go.

[carstorm 11]

Yes, I beg you. would include a fool and so many years understood. this is Iran and not Europe. they have nowhere to go, yeah. I’ll repeat the European 404 to you by the decision of my court, closed the criminal case for the crash of that 154 because they couldn’t prove that they were their missiles. They haven’t even paid compensation for the plane until that if) this bad world and everything is possible in it personally, as for me, the right step.

[lopvlad]

Quote: atalef

When I realized that nowhere to go

could have hidden the data of black boxes as Ukraine did, which has been lying for more than 5 years, and the West still can’t suck out evidence to accuse Russia, all the courts transfer and transfer.
They thought they’d hit the rocket, but again the ambush, it turned out that in Russia all the documentation was in place and the rocket was then delivered to Lviv in Western Ukraine where it was in service.

[svp67]

Quote: viking1703

they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

And what to apologize for? Before unproven words. No, then the situation was one, now it is completely different.
So, if there were no direct insults, NOT ANYTHING FOR ANYTHING.
All demanded not words, but EVIDENCE.

[Nastia makarova]

again the trolls got out !!!

[RUSS]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

again the trolls got out !!!

You have some manic attitude towards bots and trolls, Nastya just understand the simple thing if someone does not agree with you or with the party line, they are not trolls, but simply have their own point of view

[svp67]

Quote: viking1703

they were crowding over the Dutch, they remembered that the grass was legalized and they dreamed of everything, etc., so don’t need la, la.

And they had the right. Where are those Netherlands and where is Iran. If the first person the state says something, then this should be supported not by words, but by evidence. Let him learn from Poroshenko.

[viking1703]

video of missile hits, photo of part of the rocket, this was enough for everyone except Russian patriots.

[svp67]

Quote: viking1703

video of missile hits, photo of part of the rocket, this was enough for everyone except Russian patriots.

Dear, I’ll go out on the street and take off a wrecked car, and put potatoes next to me, and on this basis I will blame you as a Belarusian in this accident. Forgive me, but there is an accepted system of evidence. And these are not just fragments of a rocket lying somewhere. These are fragments of damaging elements and their traces in the corps and bodies of the dead, etc., etc.

[lopvlad]

Quote: viking1703

photo of the rocket part - this was enough for everyone

with the number that is assigned to the air defense unit located in Western Ukraine.

[Bad thing]

Are you hinting at a piece of the bus?

[svp67]

Quote: Bad

Are you hinting at a piece of the bus?

Yes, at least for something, for a piece of the bus, for documents, he tried to present something. And here are just words.
In this situation, they are few, we need evidence. The Iranians pleaded guilty, even though they turned out to be great fellows, if they had so blundered. But the trouble is, something like that was already there

Iran Airbus Airbus A300B2-203 airliner operated the IR655 commercial passenger flight en route Tehran — Bandar Abbas — Dubai, but 7 minutes after departure from Bandar Abbas, flying over the Persian Gulf, it was hit by a ground-to-air missile launched from US Navy Vincennes missile cruiser. Killed all 290 people on board - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children)

It was July 3, 1988.

In general, the US government sees the incident as a military incident and believes that the cruiser’s team acted in accordance with current circumstances. Later, the cruiser commander was awarded the Legion of Honor order for his successful service from 1987 to 1989.

Let me remind you that there was no war between the USA and Iran

[Bad thing]

Famous story, Americans then mistook watermelon for attacking F-14

[svp67]

Quote: Bad

Famous story, Americans then mistook watermelon for attacking F-14

So the Iranians are now leading a similar argument ... that they say sorry, not for that this unfortunate plane took

[Karaul73]

Another follower of IHTAMNET?
Without clear evidence, you will never admit. Herein lies the difference between a strong power and a weak one.

[svp67]

Quote: Sentry73

Another follower of IHTAMNET?

And as I understand it, are you the next follower who didn’t recognize obvious things even with evidence, such as the destruction of a Siberia Airlines plane?
And at the expense of IHTAMNET, so we take an example from you. How many of your IHTAMNETS have run around the Caucasus mountains since the mid-90s, do not tell?

[borberd]

Practice shows that with obvious evidence they fall into the negative. All of these - ichtamnet, etonemes, vysoverit, created the image of their country as constantly lying. And even if they someday will tell the truth, nobody will just believe them, as in that parable about the boy shepherd and wolves.

[Rostovchanin]

Where Americans appear - they knock down civilian sides ... this is not a coincidence, this is a trend ...

[littoral]

Quote: Rostovchanin

Where Americans appear - they knock down civilian sides ... this is not a coincidence, this is a trend ...

The dude wanted to cut down the "plus" on the easy and then - on you!

[svp67]

Quote: littoral

The dude wanted to cut down the "plus" on the easy and then - on you!

And what about the Americans, so in this story "white and fluffy"? Your logic is strange

[Rostovchanin]

Do not feed the troll, it is useless to prove the connection, it will only increase the speed of the fan.

[dmmyak40]

And let's feed the troll, add the fan to the maximum. What if it burns down ?!

[mig29mks]

Apologize to whom? Before the Ukrainians, traitors to the blood. You need a liberal that the Russians always apologize to everyone.

[viking1703]

what traitors? everywhere traitors and spies seem to you. It is an independent state and goes its own way. what difference does it make to you? you put things in order in Russia. You drag in liberals, what does it have to do with it. Liberals are to blame for the mess going on in Russia? What increase the retirement age, as in Belarus? Stop blaming the liberals and the State Department for everything. This is silly.

[Edik]

Quote: viking1703

you put things in order in Russia. You drag in liberals, what does it have to do with it. Liberals are to blame for the mess going on in Russia? What increase the retirement age, as in Belarus? Stop blaming liberals and the State Department for everything

You’re defenders of the United States all whining that the standard of living in Russia has fallen! But it’s somehow not reaching you that it has fallen because of Western sanctions and our efforts to import substitution and the wounding of the ruble! Scream further, I don’t feel sorry for you! have, and they still protect them

[viking1703]

where did I defend the usa ????? I wrote about what is enough everywhere where failed or failures in the economy and social life to blame the United States. you need to be able to admit your mistakes as courageous Iranians, so it seems now everyone has started talking?

[mig29mks]

Now, and Russia, suggest that you do not recognize as courageous Iranians?

[Andrey VOV]

Hey ... come on, you better go through the bulb in the cellar for sowing, time is flying fast spring will come ...

[GenNick]

And that’s true ... Paid pagdyazhu. An hour a little bit lazytsko-soon know tsytsu treba davats budzhe ...

[RUSS]

Quote: mig29mks

You need a liberal that the Russians always apologize to everyone.

There are no liberals in this forum

[Aliken]

There is no need to apologize. They themselves said "highley like". And when the Iranians finished their investigation, then they announced the truth.

[qQQQ]

Quote: viking1703

that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

Moreover, at the request to refute the version about the operation of air defense, only cons. It’s bad that modern education only allows shouting Hurray.

[Karaul73]

When they stick a pin in one place, then they will scream URA. More these duped can not do anything.

[maidan.izrailovich]

... laughed at Ukrainian versions, etc. apologize to them ...

Having shot down a Russian civilian plane over the Black Sea, by the way, by accident, Ukraine not only did not apologize, but even refused to admit its guilt.

... who insulted the Dutch .....

Official Netherlands conducting an investigation into a Boeing that was shot down over Ukraine, where many of their own citizens died, contrary to all the facts, they brazenly lie, blaming Russia for this. And we hardly expect an apology from them.
We certainly condole the families of all the victims. But an apology to demand from the Russians amid such an attitude towards Russia is the height of arrogance.

[politach-delivery]

And only silent minuses. Even the head of Iran acted like a man, but not supposedly officers. Hrr-pah.

[Dur_mod]

That's for sure, patriots are popular, they just hear the word Ukraine, Ukrainian - the brains are turned off, yesterday they also set minuses for comments

We got information that one stewardess called my mother with the words - Mom goodbye shelling us ...

[knn54]

Something I recalled the case of the Russian IL-20, shot down from behind the fraud by the Israelis.
Was there a similar situation, only because of the Yankees drone. - after all, TWO rockets were fired.
GUILTY in the tragedy are those who allowed the departure of the Ukrainian airliner. ALL other carriers carried flights.

[valeryb]

Quote: knn54

Something I recalled the case of the Russian IL-20, shot down from behind the fraud by the Israelis.

Shot down by a Syrian crew, trained by Russian "teachers" from a weapon made in Russia under the command of the Russian command and shooting into the white light, like a pretty penny.

[Leytenant mahouny]

This is when the Israeli fighter dodged?

[Piramidon]

Quote: viking1703

who insulted the Dutch

And what, the Dutch, have already finished their "honest" investigation and proved someone's guilt? The sixth year "investigate" and no progress. So far, only falsification and unsubstantiated accusations come from them. They do not offend, they themselves need to be judged.

[Vadivak]

Quote: viking1703

let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. apologize to them

It is unlikely. Worldview will not allow
Zyablitsev (Eugene) 5 January 8, 2020 08:07

American plane ... American electronics, American service staff, Ukraine near America - there is access to all bases ... But they will not tell us the truth, but it is very difficult to believe in such coincidences! But Tehran can be blamed for filling up the plane of the American ally, that Russia was involved in this too ... Mass options for American propaganda!

[Jarserge]

Apologize to people who, without information, expressed politically biased versions? In which the main thing in their opinion was "shot down with a Russian missile"? And only by chance and unprofessional Iranian air defense GUESSED? Yes, the question remains where the missile that shot down the Ukrainian Boeing was produced, there is such a variety and foreignness ..... Right now, I already apologized.

[KrokodilGena]

Quote: viking1703

let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

Look at the minuses to you and the vomit answers, as well as an attempt to plant branches by discussing all kinds of nonsense, hundreds of flood commenters are off topic, just from those who ridiculed the investigation and the most serious versions. Who are you calling to apologize to, a herd of trolls? The Kremlin could take an example from the Iranian leadership and admit a mistake, the destruction of a Boeing over the Donbass, this will have to be done sooner or later, and further denial and dissemination of all lies will only damage the reputation of the country and people, which will have negative consequences. But to propagandists and trolls on such things as reputation, adequacy, decency are alien.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: viking1703

that's right

What horror ... Potato ... Talking ...

[Leeds]

Quote: viking1703

all right. let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

So VO also did not look comme il faut. In this situation, out of habit, putting a thought that was chewed up with the correct conclusions into our information receivers, yesterday the author used the word “supposedly” about 10 times, chuckling openly at their versions, like overright bullshit. Shamefully interesting? The Canadian journalist after the Super Series from the USSR gobbled up his newspaper in a similar situation. Maybe it’s worth changing the approach to presenting information, stimulating the audience ... sorry for the insolence ... THINK yourself?

Yes, I turn to the gentlemen:
Invoice
Black Padded Jacket
Edik (saw him, man)
well, a dozen more affirming
where is your language today? Can a man admit wrong? Like that journalist.
Any information requires confirmation, not cliches from those who refuse to think.

It is sad that Iran so lazhanul, it was very wrong time. Although he could rest against the latter, having cleared everything.

And yet, now they rejoice over the ocean, but where is the reason for the launch of rockets? Not there in Iraq not so long ago? I hope the little people in the west, wrinkling their foreheads, reach the obvious answer.
Too bad people, one way or another, and vegetables.

[kjhg]

What is recognized is a plus to Iran. Now they still have to pay multimillion compensation for the plane and the relatives of the victims.
All the same, Ukrainians, Americans, and even the Dutch were right, and not most of our commentators.

[Nikolay87]

Guessed, but did not know. Call a spade a spade.

[bessmertniy]

Sometimes it turns out to be worse than overdoing.

[kjhg]

Quote: Nikolay87

Guessed, but did not know.

Where did I write that I knew? I wrote that I was right.

Quote: Nikolay87

Call a spade a spade.

That's it!

[Nikolay87]

Our "majority" was formed not because we are all sure that the Ukrainians, Americans, Dutch are wrong, but that they assert without proof, AGAIN (!). And to deny someone's conclusion does not mean to agree with the alternative version. How do you know that these are the "majority", keep statistics, conducted a survey? Disingenuous.

[Snail N9]

I can imagine how many millions of dollars will now have to pay Iran to the relatives of the dead foreigners. Just yesterday I wrote about this, recalling that Iran, in a similar situation, demanded and received from the United States millions of compensations to the relatives of the victims who died in the plane crash of flight IR655 ...

[NKT]

Iran received $ 300 thousand for each plus $ 150 thousand for a dependent. The United States refused to pay for the plane.

[Snail N9]

The United States paid then in general, millions of dollars in compensation, I think "common people" will run over Iran through the UN in full (for Canadians-Ukrainians and other foreigners):
"On May 17, 1989, Iran filed a lawsuit against the United States in the UN International Court of Justice, demanding compensation for damage and conviction of the United States for violating the conventions on international air transportation. In February 1996, an amicable agreement was signed between the United States and Iran, after which the case was dismissed in court. According to the terms of the agreement, the United States was to pay compensation in the amount of $ 131,8 million (including $ 61,8 million to the heirs of 248 deaths, at the rate of $ 300 for each able-bodied victim and 000 for each dependent), and Iran dropped further claims to the United States in connection with this disaster. "

[qQQQ]

Quote: Nikolay87

Guessed, but did not know. Call a spade a spade.

They put forward a version and cited arguments that no one had denied.

[Nikolay87]

Quote: qqqq

Quote: Nikolay87

Guessed, but did not know. Call a spade a spade.

They put forward a version and cited arguments that no one had denied.

Fortunately, arguments as opposed to facts are not evidential. In the civilized world, there is a presumption of innocence, i.e. "it's not your fault - until proven otherwise." So, we don’t need their "Highly Like"

[qQQQ]

Quote: Nikolay87

Fortunately, arguments, unlike facts, are not evidence-based.

This is the difference between the version and the charges. I just asked to bring at least one fact of engine fire when the crew could not send a distress signal. Fanaticism is bad, I'm waiting for the cons and not one fact.

[Kamikaze19]

I don’t think that some kind of court will make them pay any big money. The volume itself will be determined and paid for letak and the dead

[Blackmokona]

Iran, USA managed to oblige to pay a huge pile of money for a downed plane, and even Iran will be much easier to force

[Alex Justice]

You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes!

At first they refused, they thought how to hush up the matter.

[Kamikaze19]

In the beginning, they understood then admitted. Hush with black boxes will not work

[smart ass]

I told you that Iran shot down, and you yelled at me and sent to the State Department for salary

[qQQQ]

Quote: Clever man

I told you that Iran shot down, and you yelled at me and sent to the State Department for salary

And I get hangover., Better for a salary, appreciated higher - it's a shame.

[Snail N9]

And what was said on the Russian media yesterday by all sorts of "iksperts" who in every way were ironic about the possibility of hitting the SAM liner! I wonder with what eyes they are today, will say the opposite?

[atalef]

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done

Well, yes, a good dancer is always interrupted by a stinger.
Syrians are great. Iranians are great.
But everyone is to blame.

[don Migel]

Quote: Nikitich

You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes!
Iran well done ..

Everything is fine with you about Iran, anyway, you admitted it means you are strong, and you fell into complete ignorance, too. How not to say praise the sacred. Monkeys at the console are a dangerous thing, dear ..

[Pytnik]

Liberal monkeys I look here sharply a bit too much popping up "not respected"

[don Migel]

Quote: Pytnik

Liberal monkeys I look here sharply a bit too much popping up "not respected"

Switch to personal insults?

[Pytnik]

can you arrange a meeting right away? I am for

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: atalef

For example, I do not.

And who shot down over the Black Sea, are also not sure?

[atalef]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And who shot down over the Black Sea, are also not sure?

I do not understand the meaning of the translation of arrows?
Over the Black Sea, a RUSSIAN passenger plane, flying from Tel Aviv, was shot down.
Ukraine paid compensation to all affected families.
Ka5k do you think recognized or not?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: atalef

Ka5k do you think recognized or not?

Legally, no, in my opinion.

[atalef]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: atalef

Ka5k do you think recognized or not?

Legally, no, in my opinion.

I don’t know what you are investing in this thought.
Compensation paid, recognized the downing of air defense - not recognized legally
What is it like ?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: atalef

Compensation paid, recognized the downing of air defense - not recognized legally
What is it like ?

Reluctance to dig deep, I call the nearest Vika:

Ukraine in 2003 signed intergovernmental agreements with Russia and Israel on compensation for the relatives of those killed in a plane crash without legal admission of guilt.

That is, hold the dibs and leave us alone.

[Andrey VOV]

Ukraine paid compensations voluntarily only to the citizens of Israel who were on that board, and Kuchma’s statements with a smirk say that this is not a tragedy ... remember, it’s better to be silent, you’ll get off smart

[Pytnik]

bulk or dog? I do not recognize you in makeup

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The Iranian general staff added that they shot down the plane, because it flew near the IRGC military facility.

This is what there should be a lack of coordination between civil aviation and air defense !?
They foolishly missed a rocket and 176 people into the next world ...
All. I have no words. A curtain.

[Deniska999]

Iran recognized - well done. I would not recognize - well done too. Our commentators are simply amazing.

[Tsoy]

Quote: Deniska999

Iran recognized - well done. I would not recognize - well done too. Our commentators are simply amazing.

It’s good that the Russians were not on this plane. Otherwise, it would be impossible to simply bend under the party line ...

[Catfish]

You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes! Iran well done ..

And where did they go ?! A plane in Kroshevo, with no internal explosion like that is impossible.

[RUSS]

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done ..

Well done? 179 people were sent to the other world and are they well done? Well, and the fact that they recognized the fact of the shelling, since otherwise it is.

[RUSS]

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done ..

And Syria fellows when shot down our IL-20 ????

[den3080]

Image losses for Iran are huge, even difficult to assess.
Now they are inflating so that the Ayatollahs may come to an end.

[Ramzay121]

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done ..

And in what fellows? That they killed innocent people? The Iranians tried to hide, but could not, too much evidence. It was necessary to confuse a civilian plane with a hostile one, and besides, flying out of Tehran airport. The poor were so scared

[Vadivak]

Quote: Ramzay121

The poor were so scared

Rather, there is a monkey with a grenade, shoot down a plane on takeoff .....
.

[Vadivak]

The branch must be closed, everyone discusses the violinists

[MrFox]

The work of the trolls, got a team to clog the topic with garbage. Hot topic - fanatics flunk a civilian plane with our complex

[Shelest2000]

Unlike the 404, which shot down in 2001 our TU-154 (78 dead) over the Black Sea. Until now, 404 has not been officially recognized. Still have not apologized. So far, no compensation has been paid to the relatives of the victims.
As their then prez spoke out on this occasion, with the face of a heavily drinking tractor driver:
- Well, shot down. Well, do not make of this tragedy.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Good memory to the victims!
I am for justice!
You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes!
Iran well done ..

Where is Iran well done ?! For me, all these recent statements are more like a forced admission of guilt, and not their own.

If it was their air defense that brought down a Boeing, then why didn’t these fellows say so right away ?!

You can shoot down a civilian aircraft with the transponder turned on only as a result of deliberate actions, since no matter how it deviates from the course, data on the type of aircraft and its course are known, they are constantly transmitted by the automatic transponder. Air defense calculations defending Tehran are well aware that the sky is full of civilian liners. No matter how scared everyone on the basis of the IRGC of a possible US attack, they could not help but see that it was a civilian airliner.

But those Iranian officials whom the United States trivially recruited and intentionally staged this provocation on the day of Iran’s response to the assassination of Suleimani could order it to be shot down.

Or the attack on the Boeing was carried out with the help of MANPADS also by militants recruited by the United States. US terrorists in Syria are armed with MANPADS and MANPADS and they could easily arm terrorists in Iran itself.

Hence the video where someone intentionally shoots the night sky, where supposedly a rocket hits a plane -



The one who filmed this clearly knew that this would happen and he showed what was needed, without emotions, since there was no surprise for him here.

And they simply forced us to admit their guilt, they were led to this by massive information pressure.

Say Iran as it is - that the United States was involved in the downing of a Boeing, it would still look like an excuse, no one would believe it, since there is no evidence of this, even if some Iranian colonel admitted that he ordered the destruction of the Boeing to be how they paid him, in the West, all the same, they would have considered it a lie and all this would have set the world community even more against Iran and would not have saved them from paying compensation.

Iran chose what would do them the least harm - pleaded guilty that Iran’s air defense shot down a Boeing.

[atalef]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

But those Iranian officials whom the United States trivially recruited and intentionally staged this provocation on the day of Iran’s response to the assassination of Suleimani could order it to be shot down.

from how it is.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Or the attack on the Boeing was carried out with the help of MANPADS also recruited militants

of course, they threw the debris of the TOP and yes

In the afternoon the general goes out to the porch of his house and sees that there the money-keeper is cleaning his vomited general's uniform. "It's inconvenient somehow," the general thinks. "And rumor can go around the city that our general is drinking in vain, but I don't need it."
He comes up to the orderly and says: "Imagine, my friend, we had an officers' meeting yesterday, so there is one second lieutenant, a dog, he got so drunk, my whole uniform was a parasite and vomited."

The money-worker, continuing to clean his uniform, replies: "Voistinna is a scoundrel, Your Honor, I dare to report, he also gave a shit in your pants" ...

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

And they simply forced to admit their guilt

what your loch.
They made me, but after all, not at all

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Say Iran as it is - that the United States was involved in the downing of a Boeing, it would still look like an excuse, no one would believe it, since there is no evidence of this, even if some colonel of Iran admitted that he gave the order to destroy the Boeing as he was paid, in the West, all the same, they would have considered it a lie and all this would have set the world community even more against Iran and would not have saved them from paying compensation.

Iran chose what would do them the least harm - pleaded guilty that Iran’s air defense shot down a Boeing.

verily - to you even ... in the eyes - God's dew.
Level of rolls over.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

verily - to you even ... in the eyes - God's dew.
Level fool rolls over.

What do you think is unrealistic in this version? Explain to me how a video could appear where a rocket hits a plane?

This happens all the time in ordinary life and in the politics of countries.

So the United States organized on September 11, 2001, killed more than 3000 of its citizens in order to get a reason to invade Afghanistan, create a springboard there to attack oil-rich countries - Iraq, Iran and Syria, Libya.

Say that this cannot be and it is unreal ?! Well then, answer me why the WTC tower No. 7 crashed into which no plane crashed, and one of the hijacked planes hijacked by terrorists crashed into a field?

[borberd]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

So the United States organized on September 11, 2001, killed more than 3000 of its citizens

Somewhere I have already heard this ... ah, the classic - "The non-commissioned widow whipped herself" (c).

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Somewhere I have already heard this ... ah, the classic - "The non-commissioned widow whipped herself"

Why did September 11, 2001, the WTC tower # 7 still crash into which no plane crashed?

[4ekist]

It is not clear yet how a passenger plane ended up near a military facility? Was the use of airspace near this object restricted, on what basis (whose supply) did Iran take for the passenger air vessel?

[Bukhalov]

Quote: Nikitich

You have to be really strong to admit your mistakes!
Iran well done ..

Ah, it’s easy to deceive me, I’m glad to be deceived myself!
Since the murder of the passengers and the crew of the civilian Ukrainian aircraft, Iran, represented by its top leadership, has done nothing but lied to the whole world, which has nothing to do with the plane crash. And he lied blatantly and shamelessly. At the level of rudeness. Starting from nonsense, such as "This is impossible from a scientific point of view," and ending with the statements about Iran's guilt as "Big lies and fraud." They began to actively destroy the traces of the crime. At first, they refused to provide "black boxes" to Boeing. On the second day, they said that the memory blocks were destroyed in them, and now Iran is ready to provide these boxes for decryption even in France, even in scrap metal. They said that the liner was returning to the port for troubleshooting. They "found" "eyewitnesses" who "saw" how the liner's engine caught fire and it fell. Only after they took the hand (apparently through secret diplomatic channels the Persians were shown the fixation of missile launches) did they turn sour. "IRAN IS GOOD!"

[iouris]

We, too, are for everything good, against everything bad. However, Iran was preparing to defend itself against a massive US retaliation that could follow after the attack on the US base in Iraq, which was inflicted after the assassination of an important high-ranking military leader .... etc. In short, I do not agree that the plane was shot down "by accident". He is shot down because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the plane was shot down unintentionally.

[atalef]

Quote: iouris

In short, I do not agree that the plane was shot down "by accident". He is knocked down because he was in the wrong place at a bad time.

and surrounded by hollowers.

[Nikolay87]

Well, that's the specifics. And then in such coincidences as a crashed plane on the eve of rocket fire somehow it is very little trusted.

[Alex Justice]

Everything is exactly like in Ukraine МН17 or in Syria a Russian plane.
The atmosphere is escalating. Missile bombers awaiting attack. As a result, they shoot everything down, which in their opinion is the enemy.
Why has Iran not closed its skies? Why shot at a leaving target?

[kepmor]

why ??? ... yes because the barrack on the KP air defense and ignorance of the situation ...
almost the same as with our IL ...
yeah ... sent the Almighty allies ....

[Vadivak]

Quote: kepmor

yeah ... sent the Almighty allies ...

Sent it exactly, and specifically sent

[valeryb]

Quote: kepmor

sent the Almighty allies.

Eh, not, in this case they chose themselves, but they could choose others.

[Tsoy]

Quote: kepmor

yes because the barrack on the KP air defense

Obama is again to blame

[4ekist]

What a mess? or were you there? Carry a complete nonsense, dear!

[bessmertniy]

Ukraine did not close the sky either. As a result, also the downed Boeing.

[kjhg]

Quote: Alex Justice

Why has Iran not closed its skies? Why shot at a leaving target?

Lack of coordination between civilian and military. In a combat situation and time, it’s stupidly not to check if information about the civilian sides does not arrive in real time. Remember how in South Ossetia most of our aircraft were shot down by friendly fire. Although it was not even civilian aircraft, but military. But the air defense of the Ground Forces did not have sufficient coordination with the Air Force. It was after these events that the military leadership paid due attention to this.

[bar]

Everything is exactly like in Ukraine МН17 or in Syria a Russian plane.

Or like in 2001 over the Black Sea ...
By the way, then Ukraine immediately admitted and paid everyone?

[Victoria-V]

The plane was shot down by the Ukrainian 5V28 from a Russian training ground during the Russian-Ukrainian exercises. I won’t write further, you want to find out who turned on the backlight, look in the internet. You just don’t need to write anything about that catastrophe if you don’t know.

[Vadivak]

Quote: Victoria-In

I won’t write further, you want to find out who turned on the backlight, look in the internet. You just don’t need to write anything about that catastrophe if you don’t know.

At the command post of the exercises they accept the report: “There are three goals on the screen!” The order of Lieutenant General V. Dyakov sounded immediately: “Send them to shit! Fire!"
Vladimir Valentinovich Dyakov - a military figure in Ukraine. As of 2001, he was Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces for combat training, had the rank of lieutenant general

[atalef]

Quote: Nikolay87

And then in such coincidences as a crashed plane on the eve of rocket fire somehow it is very little trusted.

4 hours after.

[antivirus]

started .... all over the earth.
all aviation must be banned - only horses, wagons, as during the time of Pushkin

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: antivirus

horses, wagons, as during the time of Pushkin

The same is dangerous, according to Pushkin:
The plague will overpower me
That frost will ossify
If only a barrier slams into my forehead,
Unstoppable disabled person ...

[Pessimist22]

It turns out Canadian intelligence was right, now Iran will be overwhelmed with suits.

[Vita vko]

Quote: Pessimist22

Iran will be overwhelmed with claims

Why all of a sudden? They will pay standard insurance. Moreover, in 1988 The US itself set a precedent when, in a similar situation, they shot down an Iranian passenger Airbus. Then 290 people died and the injured relatives did not receive any compensation or insurance. Moreover, the commander of the American cruiser who issued the order was awarded the Order of the Legion of Honor.
It is bad that the "human factor" still plays a significant role in the Iranian air defense system. This indicates a low level of automation of the air defense system, which may turn out to be a "red rag" for Israel and the United States.

[Blackmokona]

In February 1996, a settlement agreement was signed between the United States and Iran, after which the case in court was dismissed. Under the terms of the agreement, the United States was supposed to pay compensation in the amount of $ 131,8 million (including $ 61,8 million to the heirs of 248 dead, based on $ 300 for each able-bodied victim and 000 for each dependent), and Iran refused further claims to USA in connection with this disaster

[Avior]

The Americans paid compensation to the relatives of the victims in the downed liner and they never refused the fact of the downing of the liner, the only question was whose fault it was.
In total, the Americans paid $ 132 million in compensation, up to $ 300 TVS to the relatives of the victims.
There is no question of any standard insurance in such cases, the payments are much larger.

[bar]

Why all of a sudden? They will pay standard insurance. Moreover, in 1988 The US itself set a precedent when, in a similar situation, they shot down an Iranian passenger Airbus.

Similarly, in 2001, Ukraine paid both for the plane and for each passenger.

[bar]

I admit a mistake. Ukraine did not pay for the plane and still has not admitted its guilt

[Jack O'Neill]

It turns out Canadian intelligence was right, now Iran will be overwhelmed with suits.

The wreckage speaks for itself. Moreover - there is a video of how a missile launcher flew into a Boeing.

[Eragon]

Once again, curvature, ... Whose is not important. I feel sorry for people.
Only Russian equipment worked as it should. Although this time it would be better not to work.

[don Migel]

Quote: Eragon

I feel sorry for people.
Only Russian equipment worked as it should.

Do you understand that there is nothing to trigger? Civilian board against air defense.

[hydrox]

In fact, any board should have a transponder turned on, which just serves as an answering machine for a civilian ship.

[Avior]

It was turned on, until the missile hit the board was on the flytradar

[hydrox]

Well, if so, then this is already a jamb of Iran and I am sure that they will not be like Ukraine in "defending alleged honor and, as it were, guiding"

[atalef]

Quote: Eragon

Once again, curvature, ... Whose is not important. I feel sorry for people.
Only Russian equipment worked as it should

the civilian side is not to be wrecked.
It worked as it should.

I'm not special. in air defense, but the question arises
On the locator, a slow-moving huge Boeing is not detected and the military aircraft has the same performance?
Next question.
Who taught, who gave a certificate of readiness to carry out independent duty, etc. etc.

[GenNick]

Certificate? , but from this place in more detail ...

[Dude]

Next question.
Who taught, who gave a certificate of readiness to carry out independent duty, etc. etc.

I was waiting for this comment !!!

You hint that they were trained by the Russians, then there will be talk that supplying such a serious weapon as an air defense system to unreliable buyers is Russia's irresponsible behavior, => Russia is again to blame! Profit!
A classic of the information war, right now, on VO ...

[atalef]

Quote: Dude

Hint that the Russians taught

what's the hint?

Quote: Dude

then there will be talk that supplying such a serious weapon as an air defense system to unreliable customers is Russia's irresponsible behavior,

no, not irresponsible.
but there are many questions.
Who taught?
Who gave the admission?
Why did the air defense complex missile launch a civilian shot with the transponder on?

Quote: Dude

Russia is to blame again!

Well, if you can’t answer the questions, it’s indirectly to blame.
If you sell or give the gun to the mentally retarded. and he will kill half of the city from it.
Probably the same questions will be quite the same for you? I am wrong ?

[Dude]

. what's the hint? request

indirectly to blame.

Q.E.D. Whatever bad happens in the world, the Russians are to blame. Bravo.
Attach the Russians to the current tragedy in Tehran - this must be able to.

Well, if you can’t answer the questions ...

did I miss something and an international tribunal was convened under the auspices of the UN?

If you sell or give the gun to the mentally retarded

Was there a "medical examination of the mentally retarded", that's the question?

[Bad thing]

At the kitchen analyst’s level, it’s possible that he’s right, but having no idea about the work of air defense, do not take your judgments out of your own kitchen. So that in the eyes of people who are knowledgeable fool do not pass for.

[Vadivak]

Quote: atalef

Why did the air defense complex missile launch a civilian shot with the transponder on?

The human (or non-human) factor

[bar]

If you sell or give the gun to the mentally retarded. and he will kill half of the city from it.

With this logic, it is necessary to transplant all directors of car factories and dealership owners. How many people die every year from cars made and sold by them, horror is simple.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Certificate ... what are you talking about ??? This is the army. Passed training, passed an exam or test, and on duty! Maybe he could also pass a narcologist or a suicide bomb on duty? ... I’m certainly not special in air defense, but in the past I served in the army (30 years ago), in aviation, where certain requirements are also needed, and what was observed and what wasn’t, already another question.

[Dude]

This is the army. Passed training, passed an exam or test, and on duty!

Mr atalef deeper digging. He has, you see, already to Russia questions appeared ...

[bar]

Mr. atalef digs deeper. He, you see, already has questions for Russia ...

It remains to smoothly bring to your favorite topic - "pay and repent"

[Dude]

Quote: bar

Mr. atalef digs deeper. He, you see, already has questions for Russia ...

It remains to smoothly bring to your favorite topic - "pay and repent"

It seems to me that this topic will definitely come up.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

Who taught, who gave a certificate of readiness to carry out independent duty, etc. etc.

Quote: Vita VKO

Moreover, in 1988 The US itself set a precedent when, in a similar situation, they shot down an Iranian passenger Airbus. Then 290 people died

And who trained these and gave certificates?

[Freeman]

atalef (alexander) Today, 08: 36
On the locator, a slow-moving huge Boeing is not detected and the military aircraft has the same performance?

I'm also not special, but I believe that the civilian Boeing and the military B-52 on the locator will look almost the same.

Moreover, on the eve of the tragedy, (namely January 7), information appeared that the United States
transferred 6 pieces of B-52 to Diego Garcia Island.
/ https://rg.ru/2020/01/07/ssha-perebrosili-b-52-poblizhe-k-iranu-posle-ubijstva-sulejmani.html /

Another thing is that the civilian "board" should have turned on the transponder.

[cokol-xnumx]

But all Iranians knew it turns out and in the first minutes after the fall of the Boeing they shouted that this is a technical error of the engine and is not being considered because it is impossible, but now how it is

[kepmor]

Well, finally ... everything and everything fell into place ... sooner or later, but the truth comes to the surface, albeit in fecal divorces ...
of course it’s a pity, but this time the Jews cannot be pulled by the ears to make excuses ... as stupid as their Syrian counterparts, who failed our IL-20 ...
so many innocent souls ruined ...

[viking1703]

all the same, the version of the Dutch, the United States and the British were faithful.
and how can you accidentally bring down a plane? there are a lot of military men. as? this does not stumble .... so many teams must go through, etc. It’s just that the Syrians, that the Iranians - it’s too early for them to sit at the remote controls themselves.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: viking1703

It’s too early for them to sit at the remote controls themselves.

Man-portable air defense missile system (MANPADS) - is an anti-aircraft missile system designed for transportation and firing by one person. Thanks to their small size, MANPADS are easily maskable and mobile.

[viking1703]

Yes, I saw that I was mistaken .... it’s too early for them to give the same.

[hydrox]

Please hang the versions on your ears, and the ONLY IAC protocol is the ONLY LEGAL DOCUMENT (even with a sincere admission of the culprit).

[7,62x54]

This cannot be, because it can never be!

[Paul Siebert]

It is scary to imagine yourself in the place of the operator of the Iranian air defense system.
How can you even live after this?
Realizing your guilt ...
Blessed memory of the dead!

[ML-334]

There was a state of war — they shot back and waited for an answer. I can assume that there was a US drone there, why other airlines canceled flights and this one did not, I admit a provocation, especially since the satellites were at the right time in the right place.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Paul Siebert

How can you even live after this?
Realizing your guilt ..

Maybe, from the point of view of the Iranian anti-aircraft gunner, he is a great fellow? Still - he filled up almost two hundred "infidels". Now Allah will write off all sins.

[hydrox]

To form an ALIEN point of view, one must be a very big righteous person ...
Believe that you fit? ...
Or are you still stirring up ethnic hatred?

[Freeman]

Quote: Narak-zempo

Quote: Paul Siebert

How can you even live after this?
Realizing your guilt ..

Maybe, from the point of view of the Iranian anti-aircraft gunner, he is a great fellow? Still - he filled up almost two hundred "infidels". Now Allah will write off all sins.

Where did you find the "infidels" there? You at least have familiarized yourself with the list of passengers.
Most were Iranians (* or of Iranian descent, but this is not accurate).

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Freeman

Most were Iranians (* or of Iranian descent, but this is not accurate).

Iranian origin, yes. But, I think, between the Iranian conscript who was sitting at the remote control and those who allow themselves to easily fly behind the cordon, there is a rather big difference.
For clarity, imagine that our air defense accidentally shot down a Moscow-New York flight, in which half are Americans and half are young bulk carriers heading for an internship at Yale University. Will any conscript boy from conditional Solvychegodsk, who does not like both the first and the second, be very worried about this?

[Freeman]

Quote: Narak-zempo

Quote: Freeman

Most were Iranians (* or of Iranian descent, but this is not accurate).

Iranian origin, yes. But, I think, between the Iranian conscript who was sitting at the remote control and those who allow themselves to easily fly behind the cordon, there is a rather big difference.
For clarity, imagine that our air defense accidentally shot down a Moscow-New York flight, in which half are Americans and half are young bulk carriers heading for an internship at Yale University. Will any conscript boy from conditional Solvychegodsk be very worried about thiswho equally does not like the first and second?

Well, you have the logic.
- And about the Russians who died in the A321 crash over Sinai, as a result of the terrorist attack, this "conscript" was not worried either ?!
- After all, "these bourgeoisie" fly around the resorts while he "pulls the soldier's strap."

- A "bespectacled", you do not accidentally hit, "for that sho helluva lot of literate"?

About similar characters, still Vysotsky sang

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Freeman

And about the Russians who died in the A321 crash over Sinai, as a result of the terrorist attack, this "conscript" was not worried either ?!

I am sure that there 90% were not Russians, but Muscovites.

[Freeman]

Quote: Narak-zempo

Quote: Freeman

And about the Russians who died in the A321 crash over Sinai, as a result of the terrorist attack, this "conscript" was not worried either ?!

I am sure that there 90% were not Russians, but Muscovites.

- Uuuuuuuuuu ... how everything is running ... (c)

[husband]

In each such case, the advantage of the United States with its skilled management over autocratic regimes making mistakes in the face of stress is obvious. The chaos control theory suggests that in the presence of many dangers, a lower-quality system will make mistakes with a higher probability. And the USA insists in this way on the need for a constant renewal of power. Achieving their propaganda goals - forcing opponents to make mistakes. I would compare this with a shaking apple tree - the less experienced one gets an apple in the forehead.

[Conrad]

Come on, pro:

Quote: sot

advantage of the United States with its skilled management over autocratic regimes

Che, the same USA also shot down civilian planes by mistake! And nothing. It's just that the huge economic and political advantage in terms of "weight" makes it possible for them not to notice mistakes.

[husband]

We are talking about the probability of error in the conditions of chaos, the limited time frame for decision-making, and lack of data. A better system has a lower probability of error. And knowing that they have more qualified performers and a management system, they are also fueling chaos. Winning is extremely probable for them.

[The Sparkle]

"In every such case, the advantage of the United States with its skilled management over autocratic regimes that make mistakes in conditions of tension is obvious ..." - The United States does not make mistakes, and in most cases deliberately commits crimes!

[asv363]

Quote: sot

In each such case, the advantage of the United States with its skilled management over autocratic regimes making mistakes in the face of stress is obvious.

Flight IR655 in 1988, who shot down? American warriors. 290 people. One of them answered - no.

[husband]

One was shot down by the USA, and the USSR was one, the DPR was one, Syria was one and Iran was one. Ukraine alone in the period of normal relations with Russia. Here is the probability of their strategy success. Moreover, in the past 30 years, the United States has drawn conclusions and has become more sophisticated.

[asv363]

DNR civilian aircraft did not bring down. MH17 completely on the conscience of Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners.

[Disant]

sot

One was shot down by the USA, and the USSR was one, the DPR was one, Syria was one and Iran was one. There is only one Ukraine. Here is the probability of their strategy success.

you put completely different cases on the same line, and, apparently, not by accident ..
The USSR, unlike Iran, the USA and Ukraine, did not miss anywhere and in 1983 shot down an intruder.
What violated the plane that was shot down by a missile from the US cruiser?

DNR alone

- Well, you bent it. Who said? maybe an imported investigation team that had evidence in the form of fragments of a rocket with preserved serial numbers? So the RF Ministry of Defense provided all the documents on this missile - when, where, from what, where it lay, to whom it was transferred and in what year

[hydrox]

In fact, the more experienced puts on a winter hat - in Siberia this is how the cedar cone is beaten, they do not go bare-headed.

[A hundred]

As a result of human error and by accident this plane was shot down

Something at once our Il shot down in Syria remembered .. Isn't that the case again?
Then the United States immediately subsided and there was no answer .. Now Iran will finally be persecuted and then officially soaked ..
"British scientists" work beautifully ...

[Kirill Bunakov]

A tragic mistake. It happens sometimes, unfortunately. Ukraine has already shot down two civilian aircraft with missiles, and has not even paid compensation to anyone.

[Moon]

Quote: Kirill Bunakov

Ukraine has already shot down two civilian aircraft with missiles, and has not even paid compensation to anyone.

for Tu 154 (Black Sea) compensation was paid to all relatives by decision of the commission
for the second it’s not clear, there was no trial. Who brought down the disputes do not calm down

[Victoria-V]

Well, why people who do not know and do not understand anything write such comments here.

[Victoria-V]

Go to the Aviaforum without even registering. And about compensation - Google to help ...

[rocket757]

THE CONSEQUENCE WILL BE UNDERSTANDED!
Understood, recognized ... all this is sad.
Tough events are happening, now the consequences will have to be raked.
The obvious is military psychosis ... and this is not the end.

[Strashila]

"As a result of human error and accidentally, this plane was shot down."
"The Iranian General Staff added that they shot down the plane because it was flying near the IRGC military facility."
If it was a TOR complex, according to Western sources, then it should be equipped with a complex to prevent an attack by civilian aircraft on a transponder, whereupon the attack occurred, where protection from the fool was deliberately installed.
Another question is why the plane flew near the IRGC facility, whether it was a permanent corridor for flights of civil aircraft or a deviation from the route occurred.
"As noted in the statement, this happened in" conditions of high combat readiness ", in general it is strange, flights of civil aircraft were actually allowed during hostilities?
One answer raised a bunch of questions.

[The Sparkle]

And one more question - why did the plane fly later, and not according to the schedule? - This could also lead to this tragedy. Iranian air defense should have schedules for departures and air corridors for civilian aircraft.

[BISMARCK94]

Screwed up. Strong. Good memory to the victims of the tragedy.

[Jack O'Neill]

And what was going around when everything was clear already?
But what kills the most is how the VO participants reacted to the fact that Iran could bring down a Boeing. No, Iran could not, that’s all mockery, etc.

[moscowp]

Yes, it seems that most of the participants here are propaganda bots. It was funny when everyone vied with each other to prove that at the end of the year it was not the first Su-57 production aircraft that fell, although there was still no information. Now with a downed plane ... Many would have been embarrassed for their comments if they had known this feeling

[Jack O'Neill]

Many should have been embarrassed by their comments if they had known this feeling.

[askort154]

All this is strange. Why shoot down an aircraft that is not approaching Tehran, but, on the contrary, retreating with a climb. Even the most "crooked" operator understands this.

[rocket757]

Low qualification of calculations, insufficient level of notification / interaction with civil services ... and further on the list, plus the nervous atmosphere of expectation turning into military psychosis!
Plus inadequate crew decision, departure at a time when everything is at the limit!
A chain of violations and fatal errors. This is the result of the inadequacy you know who ....

[maden.usmanow]

Well, who minus me here before?
From the very beginning it was clear that this was Iranian air defense.
One must be objective, Lord.

[Jack O'Neill]

Indeed, when you have your own versions and you share them, they simply insult you, as it was yesterday.
And after such a thing, I don’t want to have dialogues with the local contingent ...

[moscowp]

Nothing was clear from the start, any version was taken from the air

[rocket757]

Versions, versions, but you just had to wait for the outcome of the proceedings, the investigation.
If someone had real data, facts, it was necessary to provide them to the investigating authorities, and not to shout what we know, we know, we know, but we won’t show you.
The system of international interaction has been violated, or rather ended, even in such tragic cases!
So, actually, it’s not long before the general trouble!

[sagitch]

And Trump is guilty! Is it not from him that the tragic chain of deaths began. Suleimani, victims at the funeral, a plane with foreign citizens ...

[moscowp]

Of course, and Israel to the heap!

[RUSS]

Quote: sagitch

And Trump is guilty! Is it not from him that the tragic chain of deaths began. Suleimani, victims at the funeral, a plane with foreign citizens ...

For any trump and more Jews Well, you and the frame.

[rocket757]

Stripes give rise ... war psychosis wherever they stretched their legs. It is obvious.
So it was, is and will be.

[viking1703]

sorry for everyone, both civilian and military. the cost of error is very high.

[Chingachguk]

Hmm, a man's act. If they were Ukrainians, they would not have confessed to life, even if they were impaled! The same loot will have to be paid! "A mortally wounded Ukrainian in the trench asks Ivan - Vanya! Do you have any ammunition? Ivan is already running out of ammunition. And a Ukrainian - buy it from me." Iran acted as expected.

[viking1703]

my friend you are simply inadequate to write jokes about the trench and cartridges. How many Ukrainians died during the Second World War? Veterans Ukrainians still alive, go and say that they were selling cartridges in the trench to Ivan.

[Chingachguk]

And how many of them now my friend jumps with torches in his hands and praises Bandera !? A fly in the ointment, spoils a barrel of honey! Or maybe today in Ukraine there is an official holiday of Victory Day on May 9?

Quote: viking1703

my friend you are simply inadequate to write jokes about the trench and cartridges. How many Ukrainians died during the Second World War? Veterans Ukrainians still alive, go and say that they were selling cartridges in the trench to Ivan.

[Freeman]

[quote = Chingachguk] And how many of them are now jumping old man with torches in his hands and praises Bandera !?
... Or maybe today in Ukraine there is an official holiday of Victory Day on May 9? [/ Quote] [/ quote]

Despite the temporary victory of the Nazis in Ukraine, there is still a state holiday dedicated to May 9, in Ukraine. Although they try to give it a different meaning.
[Quote]Victory Day over Nazism in World War II (Ukrainian. Day overpower against Nazism at the other svіtіvі vіynі) is a state holiday and a day off in Ukraine, which is celebrated on May 9, starting in 2016. This memorable day replaced the Soviet Victory Day. [/ Quote]

Ukrainian veterans of the Second World War and their descendants, despite repressions from the ruling regime and "pressure" from "radicals", continue to fight Nazism, defending the true meaning and symbols of "Victory Day".

[quote] May 9, 2019. Ukraine.
[/ Quote]

Shl. And it is not necessary to write all Ukrainians in the "Bandera".

[Chingachguk]

And the henchman of the Nazis, Bandera, whose hero? Who recognizes him? And the fact that you began to celebrate Victory Day quietly, with an eye on the nationalists, is your problem. You are guilty of it yourself .... The maximum that each of the normal Ukrainians did was show a muzzle in his pocket. Who climbs into NATO? Why are you climbing there? What kind of understanding do you want from the Russians? Evil lives in some, good in others, parasites already live in most Ukrainians!

[Freeman]

Chingachguk (Oleg) Today, 13:47

I don’t want to even comment on your entire set of propaganda cliches.

I can only say one thing - the image of an external (and indeed internal) enemy, is firmly formed among a part of the population.

- Bravo "zomboyaschik"!
/ sarcasm /

[Chingachguk]

And you don't need to comment on me, just take note. What I see is what I say. Where did I lie? Ride, climbs into NATO, the Nazi six were recognized as a national hero, you celebrate his denyukha, call your streets after him, demolish monuments to the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War, ban the Russian language at the state level, kill and burn people who do not agree with the policy of the new government in Ukraine , can I continue to list your "merits", or enough? So please answer, for what "Moskalyaka", whom you urge to hang on a gylyak, to respect you?

[Freeman]

Chingachguk (Oleg) Today, 14:38
And I do not need to comment

Well, don’t. Don't.
- Adieu!

[Chingachguk]

The right thing ..... At home in Ukraine, put things in order ..... Unless you certainly think that it is him that you have already put in place ......

[Karaul14]

Ukraine has already shot down a civilian plane in 2001 and has admitted it. Iran turned to the last, denied with all its might, bulldozed the crash site (Iran also denied this), then some of the data from the "black boxes" disappeared somewhere, and confessed only when it was already pressed against the wall with evidence.

[Mountain shooter]

One thing can be said - they ... these Iranians ... how could this be allowed to happen? Mess, no words ...

[Vitaly Tsymbal]

I do not like to "wang", well, perhaps about the "Dutch investigators" and "British scientists". Not everything is simple here, but this is already an internal showdown of the Iranians ... Air defense works by calculations (collectively), respectively, and the decision to launch missiles was not made by an ordinary ... The fact that the Iranians confessed is a plus, that innocent people died is a minus. The "extreme" ones will be found and punished, the guilty will continue to engage in global politics ...

[valeryb]

Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal

the decision to launch rockets was not made by ordinary people.

Very true, Ukraine must draw conclusions for itself why its board was chosen.

[Karaul14]

Recently, Iran recalled how the United States shot down their plane over the Persian Gulf, a couple of days later, Iran joined them. On board, in addition to 11 Ukrainians and 82 Iranians, there were 63 Canadians, 10 Swedes, 3 Germans, 3 Englishmen and 4 Afghans, so the investigation was so intense from the West.

[Zeev Zeev]

Well done Persians that they have the courage to admit their mistakes.

[Nastia makarova]

Now they have waited for the official news, you can discuss !! and then yesterday so many trolls with fecc news came running !!!! I'm tired of minusuvat them)))) probably someone removed

[YOUR]

The fact that of course the fellows admitted. They did not twist their tail.
But another question is how the calculation was able to confuse the mark from a civilian aircraft, and even with the transponder turned on with a combat aircraft

[Chingachguk]

Quote: Karaul14

Ukraine has already shot down a civilian plane in 2001 and has admitted it. Iran turned to the last, denied with all its might, bulldozed the crash site (Iran also denied this), then some of the data from the "black boxes" disappeared somewhere, and confessed only when it was already pressed against the wall with evidence.

And how much Ukraine rested before recognizing? Until hard evidence was shoved into her face, no one was going to admit anything!

[Karaul14]

Press "answer", otherwise the notification does not come. In your words, Ukraine would never recognize, but it did. This time. Iran has already admitted this, in your words it is already being exalted to the skies, and the fact that it resisted to the last, it does not matter to you, and Ukraine allegedly then resisted and it plays a role)))

[Chingachguk]

Quote: Karaul14

Press "answer", otherwise the notification does not come. In your words, Ukraine would never recognize, but it did. This time. Iran has already admitted this, in your words it is already being exalted to the skies, and the fact that it resisted to the last, it does not matter to you, and Ukraine allegedly then resisted and it plays a role)))

Why are you all Ukraine, yes Ukraine, for me Ukraine is a Nazi state and very dishonorable in addition to everything! Constantly lying to everyone everywhere! Iran shot down a Ukrainian plane, for a reason, for a change, Iran has a conflict with the most powerful state in the world! And what conflict did Ukraine have in 2001? With whom? With your brain? So he only progresses! Already jumping with pots on their heads and glorify Nazism.

[Karaul14]

Given that we are talking about Iran, and you dragged Ukraine here))). Iran did not admit it and denied it in every way and tried to hide the circumstances, it was pressed against the facts and it split, I do not see any bold act here.

[Chingachguk]

Hmm ...... Sometimes arguing, it's more expensive for yourself ......

[Chingachguk]

Who shot down the Dutch Boeing in Ukraine?

[Karaul14]

You already know who shot him down, as did the grandmothers under the porch who killed Kennedy.

[Chingachguk]

Well, what did not sound? You must have your own opinion ??? And it would become more clear to us who you are and what you are.

[littoral]

Again Lahti on this site crap in full.

[moscowp]

maybe vice versa, they will write out the prize! Their task is to drown not for the very true version, but for the one for which it is necessary

[Military Builder]

Quote: prodd

The Americans said that infrared satellites saw a rocket launch from under the snow

Powell, before filling up Iraq, also shook a test tube at the UN

[Avior]

and didn’t they find chemical weapons in Iraq? Something there was such in messages like ....

[Avior]

A possible explanation for what happened caught my eye yesterday. The operation of the IRGC was classified, and the air defense of the IRGC operated completely autonomously.
After hitting American bases, the IRGC squadrons were platooned and tense, they expected that there could be a retaliatory strike by the Americans, and the operators of a specific installation did not have general information, they were in a completely autonomous mode.
I note that no one accused Iran of intentionally knocking down the liner, all unanimously emphasized the random nature, no one tried to take advantage of the situation and accuse them of having shot down deliberately.
But the Iranians themselves did not behave very well, it is clear that they knew about what they shot down, but they lied about a technical malfunction and hypocritically invited everyone to transmit information about missile launches to Iran, until they tried on the wall and it did not become clear that it would not be possible to hide the wreckage and independently conduct the examination.
However, it is possible that the Iranian military and civilians might not have known for sure, since the IRGC is the state in the state, but they knew for sure above.
But it is noteworthy that they did not begin to corner Iran in the West, but allowed to save face and admit it on their own, although it was obvious from Trudeau’s direct accusation that there was plenty of evidence, Trump and others said “there is a possibility”, practically hinting to Iran that it wasn’t succeed.
Good memory to the victims!
Under the last photo on Instagram, the stewardess Valeria Ovcharuk, originally from Lugansk, emotionally wrote “Work, I love you!”
This incident is the first accident with victims in the history of the airline from the very beginning of the 90s

Flight attendants on a flight- guy and young girls, live and live! Just tears choke ....

[Vitaly gusin]

Honest truthful review +
BUT.

Quote: Avior

since the IRGC is the state in the state, but they knew for sure above.

This is the whole tragedy.
IRGC created to conduct its Iran’s policies, the Islamization of the BV countries, by any means and it is allowed all . And this gives rise to impunity and neglect of what is not invested in their theory.
Vladimir Putin’s visit to Syria and a meeting with Assad to explain the future restoration and development of Syria to him cannot be connected with Iran.

Quote: Avior

This incident is the first accident with victims in the history of the airline from the very beginning of the 90s

This is not a disaster, this is shooting civil aircraft with civilians.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

This is not a disaster, this is the shooting of a civilian plane with civilians.

Iran Air Airlines Airbus A300B2-203 airliner made a commercial passenger flight IR655 on the Tehran – Bandar Abbas – Dubai route, but 7 minutes after departure from Bandar Abbas, flying over the Persian Gulf on July 3, 19888, it was shot down by a ground-to-air missile ", Launched from the US Navy missile cruiser Vincennes. All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children). At the same time, the commander of the cruiser received the order. This is already a murder, when for a murder give orders.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: tihonmarine

All 290 people on board the aircraft died - 16 crew members and 274 passengers (including 65 children).

Korean Air Lines (KAL) airliner Boeing 747-230B operated international flight KE007 (call sign KAL 007) on the New York — Anchorage — Seoul route, with 23 crew members and 246 passengers on board. for an unknown reason, the plane began to deviate to the right of the assigned course. After some time, the liner deviated so west that it entered the USSR’s closed airspace and flew over Sakhalin Island. Over the latter, he was intercepted, and then shot down by a Soviet Su-15 fighter,

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

Korean Air Lines (KAL) airliner Boeing 747-230B operated international flight KE007 (call sign KAL 007) on the New York — Anchorage — Seoul route, with 23 crew members and 246 passengers on board. for an unknown reason, the plane began to deviate to the right of the assigned course.

Well, you at least look at the map at least once. Where is Seoul, Where is Anchorage and where is Sakhalin. "The plane deviated to the right" - and this is where ??? He flew to the Northeast and if he dodged to the right, then at least he flew to the East, which means to the Pacific Ocean. And how can a normal pilot fly over Sakhalin, although he is Korean, he has not completed the "cutting and sewing courses". I am a naval navigator, and was the navigator of a helicopter, but for me this is not nonsense, but as if it was not a pilot who was sitting at the helm, but that little one who eats bananas and loves to play with a grenade. So you ask this airline who is sitting at the controls.

[Pete mitchell]

Can I get a hold of it? And you were a navigator? From Alaska to Korea

Quote: tihonmarine

He flew to the Northeast

Got it, I won’t.

Among all the others, there is one plausible version: they did not switch the control channel from the course to the navigation, well, and the perl with a constant course; an established fact that they did not compare their position with the given - they simply reported. Boom. There, the Americans carried out exercises and pulled air defense, so did not stand on ceremony with him

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Pete Mitchell

There, the Americans carried out exercises and pulled air defense, so did not stand on ceremony with him

As the non-brothers said, "whoever the trab was shot down."

[parusnik]

Oh how! All the same, Iran ... and not a technical malfunction ... Now, at least the arrows will not transfer to Russia ...

[atalef]

Quote: parusnik

.Now, at least the arrows will not transfer to Russia ...

and someone tried?
Although I have a question on the other side.
Whose production complex?
Who taught?
Who issued the certificate of admission to independent duty?
Who certified combat readiness?
etc.
When the whole class is doppelgangers, are questions to the teacher legitimate or not?
Or is the teacher out of business?

[parusnik]

and someone tried?... And look at yesterday’s or yesterday’s news .. at VO, there is information about it .. The Netherlands Press, USA ...

[Avior]

no such information there, sorry.
Nowhere except VO did he read about the charges against Russia.

[parusnik]

Revised ... really .. gave a blunder ... on VO no .. apparently on another resource .. read something .. Everything mixed up in Oblonsky’s head ..

[Moskovit]

How do you all correctly say. And if you were to be relocated to 1988, would you also ask questions to your American allies? Especially, why did the cruiser commander eventually receive the Legion of Honor?
How many civilians and military men around the world, including Israel, who died due to the negligence and mistakes of other military men. This does not negate their responsibility and punishment.
Anti-Semites blamed the Jews for everything, now you have taken their place. The Russians are to blame for everything now.

Do not disgrace. The brainland of Ukraine is a dangerous disease.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: atalef

and someone tried?

Ukraine.

[30143]

It’s sad, but ... this victim, most likely, sobered up hot heads who already wanted to start a new war.
In fact, right and left and even more innocent will perish ...

[Basarev]

Khan of Iran. Now the United States will instantly remember what friends of Khlamin they are, they will recall the reputational losses of their native Boeing from such a humiliating fall ... And most importantly, since Iran itself has admitted, it’s certainly to blame. And if you are to blame, you must be punished, you can’t forgive such a thing. No extenuating circumstances when it comes to so many deaths.

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

You are wrong - nothing will happen to Iran! In many countries, this has already happened, and sometimes their own military men have not been recognized ... I remember a case from the recent past - how in Brovary near Kiev a rocket was injected into a residential building and nothing. Well then, even though the rocket was without warheads.

[Avior]

Recently, this is 20 years ago.
Technical problems with the rocket led to its uncontrolled flight
The victims were compensated and given new apartments

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

God, how time flies! ... Sorry, but it seemed to me that not so long ago.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Basarev

And most importantly, since Iran itself has admitted, it’s certainly to blame. And if you are to blame, you must be punished, you can’t forgive such a thing. No extenuating circumstances when it comes to so many deaths.

Do not forget that the American ship was also shot down by an Iranian airliner, the ship commander received the order.

[Basarev]

The states can, they are a superpower. I always said: a superpower has the right to arbitrariness, it differs from all other countries in that it can not be shy in its means and act in its interests as efficiently as possible without looking at stupid things like international laws.

[atalef]

Quote: Basarev

. And most importantly, since Iran itself has admitted, it’s certainly to blame.

And what type is not?

Quote: Basarev

And if you are guilty, then you must be punished

why punished. Iran?
Must pay compensation and punish those responsible.

Quote: Basarev

No extenuating circumstances when it comes to so many deaths.

Emollients? let him decide whether they are or not.
For some, the full moon is a softening foundation.

[Basarev]

why punished. Iran?
Must pay compensation and punish those responsible.

It's simple: everything that happens on the territory of Iran is the responsibility of the Iranian government. And in this sense, the ayatollah regime is completely guilty of an international crime and must be punished for it.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: atalef

why punished. Iran?
Must pay compensation and punish those responsible.

And for the TU-154 flight Tel Aviv-Novosibirsk shot down on October 4, 2001, WHO was punished ???

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: viking1703

all right. let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

As the Ukrainians lied about the Russian Tu-13 aircraft shot down 154 years ago over the Black Sea. managed to prove that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian rocket.

[Avior]

Still would. The IAC managed not to check the data on whether the target illumination of the S-300 Complex was turned on at the time of the death of the radar, which is a key moment in the chain of evidence for a missile with semi-active guidance. And when it became clear in the courts, then Siberia Airlines and the relatives of the victims simply threw the proceedings halfway, did not even finish it.
Nevertheless, Ukraine paid compensation regardless of court decisions.

[atalef]

Quote: Avior

And when it became clear in the courts, then Siberia Airlines and the victims' relatives simply dropped the proceedings halfway

Ie quit?

Quote: Avior

Nevertheless, Ukraine paid compensation regardless of court decisions.

and what court decision was?

[Avior]

There were several court decisions by different courts on the claims of the victims, who wanted to receive more compensation and the Siberia company for compensation for the aircraft, in both cases it turned out that there was no actual evidence of the fault of the Ukrainian military, the lawsuits filed were terminated.
During court hearings, for example, the S-200 complex radar illumination was turned off at the time of the crash and the holes in the aircraft skin did not match the size of the S-200 missile striking elements, which IAC simply did not check for either.
In judicial examinations, the possibility of an attack on board was also indicated, as a possible explanation for the death of the aircraft.
this is from wiki

Immediately after the court’s decision, the head of the Fund for Assistance to the Families of the Dead, Boris Kalinovsky and the Belonogov family, which refused to receive material assistance, filed a lawsuit in court for compensation for moral damages - the Cabinet of Ministers, the Ministry of Defense and the State Treasury of Ukraine were the defendants. The case was considered in the Pechersk district court of Kiev and on January 30, 2008, compensation was completely refused. The motivational part of the refusal indicated that the defendants ’guilt in the disaster was not established by the prosecutor’s investigation, the evidence presented by the plaintiffs is contradictory and cannot be recognized as the basis for satisfying the lawsuit [58]. An appeal against a court decision ..... was not filed.

Simultaneously with the lawsuit from the relatives of the victims, Siberia Airlines OJSC filed a lawsuit against the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and the State Treasury of Ukraine for damages: .... The case lasted more than seven years ... the claim was refused in full [49] [57]. On October 10, 2011, the losing party appealed to the Kyiv Commercial Appeal Court [59].

On May 28, 2012, the Kiev Economic Court of Appeal rejected the complaint of the Russian airline Sibir Airlines (S7 Airlines) against the decision of the court of first instance, which did not plead guilty to the Ukrainian military for the crash of the Russian Tu-154 in 2001 [60]. On December 11, 2012, the Supreme Economic Court of Ukraine upheld the decision. Representatives of the airline announced their intention to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights [61], however ... the airline, having passed all possible instances in Ukraine, did not take the opportunity to appeal to the ECHR [62].

[rocket757]

Quote: Avior

Nevertheless, Ukraine paid compensation regardless of court decisions.

Just to clarify - to whom Extreme paid compensation? To all or just the chosen ones?
You can ask how it all ended there.

[Avior]

paid to the relatives of all the dead.
as far as I remember, large compensations were paid, if I am not mistaken, it was about 200 thousand dollars or something, and what about the relatives of Israeli citizens, that Russia is the same.
In this regard, special interstate agreements were concluded, both with Israel and with Russia.
The exception, as far as I remember, is one family from Russia that refused to receive this compensation and filed a lawsuit, hoping to get a larger one.
After the first court decision in the first instance, she refused further judicial review and did not appeal. Who advised them to do this, I do not know.
If I don’t know something, give me a link, I read that I misunderstand ....

[rocket757]

I read some kind of turbidity ... in the end, Kraina does not recognize the fact of the destruction of the aircraft and did not pay for it. Compensation for passengers paid to all.

[Avior]

the campaign was sued, but no evidence of Ukraine’s guilt was found, so they didn’t and is suing until the end, when it surfaced that there is no real evidence, I gave a quote here with the details of the courts.

[Shahno]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

In this message, I simply send greetings to everyone who has been proving to me for the past two days that I have been hiring the West, a troll, a liar, I have the wrong logic and so on. Well, whose picture of the world turned out to be adequate, and whose - not?

// Maybe they shot down. In such a mess, only pros can look for the right solutions ... // -
My message after the disaster.
In general, the property of human consciousness is to reject logic and facts in order to defend its understandable, settled understanding ..

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Thank you Iran for your honesty! And the victims have a bright memory. My condolences to my family ...

[Professor]

Murder will out. The fact that the plane was shot down was clear from the very beginning.

[Avior]

not really from the start.
Initially, in Ukraine, for example, no one thought that Iran could bring down a Boeing, everyone accepted the Iranian version of the technical problem.
And only when intelligence messages were sent, did the situation begin to change

[Shahno]

Quote: RussianRoulette

Undisputed proofs mattresses they probably brought.

Maybe so .. Do not forget what would have happened if they had hidden it, because there is a complete set. Victims and Iranians and Canadians, etc.

[Vitaly gusin]

I wrote yesterday
"Quote: hydrox
Guess three times - against whom?

Ah! Got it!
They are tailored to fit their aircraft models. they fired at them during the exercises and remained in the memory "

As you understand.
LIES, CAPS AND CHILDREN AND A HUGE NUMBER OF MINUSES cannot replace modern technologies in production and use advanced in the world technology in all areas of our lives, including in EXPLORATION.

[don Migel]

Quote: kepmor

Yes, because the barracks on the KP air defense and ignorance of the situation ...
almost the same as with our IL ...
yeah ... sent the Almighty allies ....

Worse, because the plane was shot down when climbing. All civilians take off along the same corridor. In my opinion, if a plane is detected from afar, then this is one thing, and here it took off and not one. Take off from a civilian airport every few minutes and in the same direction. Maybe they thought that the Boeing was coming out of the peak bombing?

[Santa Fe]

Monkeys with a Pomegranate

[Professor]

Quote: Santa Fe

Monkeys with a Pomegranate

The best comment.

[Vitaly gusin]

Quote: Santa Fe

Monkeys with a Pomegranate

Trained on DESTRUCTION, BUT ON CREATION!

[arlekin]

It’s sad to be aware, but I can’t imagine, for any reason the Russian General Staff would report something similar.

[Lontus]

In the dry residue:
Trump eliminated the 2nd man of Iran (retaliation for an attack on the embassy as an excuse)
nor did he lose anyone.
but he didn’t let the conflict develop into a war (as many clicked) and fixed the situation in a favorable and comfortable situation for himself - Iran is weakened and hampered, new sanctions are being prepared.

The US economy is still on the rise, and even during the peak of this crisis, there were no negative movements in its financial markets - no one really doubted Trump’s ability to resolve the situation, so that anti-trump propaganda would not mess with it.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Lontus

Trump eliminated the 2nd man of Iran (retaliation for an attack on the embassy as an excuse)
nor did he lose anyone.

Tapm got hit in the face in response and ... did not answer. Remained with a bat muzzle - no 52 "retaliatory strikes ...

Swallowed, smiling ....

[mark1]

The early "Thors" had such a function - automatic combat mode (ie without a crew), then it was removed. But whether the Iranian "Thors" have it is a question. If there is - a topic for thought ...

[SARANCHA1976]

Yeah, how much hatred and spray of frenzy foam, it's just kapets. Half would be gathered in one room so that each other would break their crazy booths

[Santa Fe]

Quote: honest people

Urya patriot will only correct the grave!

Why do i need truththat can defame my Homeland and an ally of my country using our weapons?

Such truth is unprofitable for me and all Russians, not in our interests. And the Russian Defense Ministry is doing everything right if it hides some things. Lie until you die.

As some American politician used to say, they are bastards, but they are our bastards. Here, take an example

or the pillar of democracy - Reagan: I will never apologize for America, no matter what facts

[Santa Fe]

Decency we can’t afford

How do Americans live with such a paradigm? - I quoted quotes from their politicians

[Moskovit]

You and your conscience will figure out first how you can unleash wars around the world where millions die, and then teach others.

[Avior]

Which did not stop him from paying large compensations to the victims of Ex gratia.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Avior

Which did not stop him from paying large compensations to the victims of Ex gratia.

You can pay

“Sir, how much is the silence of your family?”

So that this topic never pops up anywhere and quickly forgot

[Avior]

and what, was forgotten and never surfaced?
only in the last three days I read it twenty times ....
and agreed there with families, and with the government of Iran, there was a hearing in the International Court of Justice
you are completely unaware of that matter, excuse me?
have you heard from the corner of your ear?

[RUSS]

Quote: prodd

Russia also admits that it shot down mn17.

After the Chekist leaves

[Nastia makarova]

another Chekist will come))))

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Avior

Still would. The IAC managed not to check the data on whether the target illumination of the S-300 Complex was turned on at the time of the death of the radar, which is a key moment in the chain of evidence for a missile with semi-active guidance. And when it became clear in the courts, then Siberia Airlines and the relatives of the victims simply threw the proceedings halfway, did not even finish it.
Nevertheless, Ukraine paid compensation regardless of court decisions.

The disaster over the Black Sea, which was forgotten due to the prescription of years, which resulted in the death of 78 from the Tel Aviv-Novosibirsk flight, has not yet found its logical conclusion. Having admitted her guilt, Ukraine did not pay compensation to the Russian airline Siberia in the amount of 15 million dollars, limiting itself to paying 200 000 dollars for each Israeli and Russian killed. Knock-knocked down, but we will not answer in full - this is in the style of the current policy of Kiev.

[Avior]

buddy, stop writing.
Ukraine did not admit its guilt, but at the same time paid compensation, there is such a legal rule Ex gratia.
And Siberia voluntarily stopped the continuation of the lawsuit, when they realized how clumsy the investigation of the IAC was and there was no actual evidence of a missile hit.
Still would. For the S-300 complex, it is not possible to check whether the backlight was on, without which the rocket, in principle, could not hit the target.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Avior

buddy, stop writing.

So you blame the person for paying compensation, so he writes in komente

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Having admitted her guilt, Ukraine did not pay compensation to the Russian Siberia Airlines in the amount of $ 15 million, limiting herself to paying $ 200 for each Israeli and Russian who died.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Shot down, shot down, but we will not answer in full - this is in the style of the current policy of Kiev.

Why is there a discord over this disaster? In some publications, the S-300 appears, and in others the S-200B?

[Gennady Fomkin]

“Tragedies when a civilian aircraft becomes a victim of the military (for various reasons) are not so rare,” said media consultant Alexander Zimovsky. - In such cases, there is an iron rule: deny everything. In addition, great powers can afford another liberty. Justify the destruction of a civilian aircraft by recognizing it as a military incident. So, for example, Americans behave. Remember the Iranian airbus that was hit by a rocket from the American cruiser Vincennes? Then 290 people died, the commander of the ship received the order.

Ukraine, as a third-rate country, cannot afford such a luxury. Therefore, in the case of the destruction of the Tu-154 over the Black Sea in 2001, Kiev went into complete "unconsciousness." I am well aware of all the circumstances of the tragedy, because in 2001 our television company reported that a passenger plane was shot down by a Ukrainian air defense system during firing in Crimea. I myself oversaw this special issue of news, and conducted fact checks based on data from American tracking and warning systems. They immediately and without hesitation pointed to the Ukrainian origin of the rocket that shot down a plane flying out of Tel Aviv.

[cniza]

Iran admitted that accidentally shot down a Ukrainian passenger Boeing

Condolences to all the loved ones who have lost their loved ones.
Iran behaved courageously and admitted its mistake.
I believed to the end that this was a technical problem and the United States was trying to protect its Boeing from already big problems...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: cniza

I believed to the end that this was a technical problem and the US was trying to protect its Boeing

Excuse me, what do you have to do with Boeing?

[cniza]

And what do I have to do with it? , I expressed my version of what was happening, but I was wrong.

[Adimius38]

sadly, they killed a bunch of people... and as always, the Ukrainians distinguished themselves again by driving the Boeing through an extremely dangerous zone.

[PValery53]

It's good that THEY don't have an "accidental" atomic bomb.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: PValery53

It's good that THEY don't have an "accidental" atomic bomb.

But others have it.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: PValery53

It's good that THEY don't have an "accidental" atomic bomb.

I see those who have it are already twitching.

[GUSAR]

Yes, many people here had a good break in the pattern

[ender]

there will be no gap. wipe themselves off and continue working

[Gennady Fomkin]

At the same time, according to the head of the Civil Aviation Organization of Iran, Ali Abedzadeh, deciphering the “black boxes” will take up to two months, and a full investigation will take from a year to two years.

[Shahno]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done ..

And Syria fellows when shot down our IL-20 ????

Well done or not well done. And I just want to say that the reasons for the mess are similar, even the circumstances.
And rightly so, ours blocked the supply of C 300... As practice begins to show.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Shahno

And rightly so, ours blocked the supply of C 300... As practice begins to show.

That's for sure, they left it in Ukraine, and what happened.

[Shahno]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: sagitch

And Trump is guilty! Is it not from him that the tragic chain of deaths began. Suleimani, victims at the funeral, a plane with foreign citizens ...

For any trump and more Jews Well, you and the frame.

What about the Jews, uh... We pushed Trump. Yeah, it turns out that. The top leaders of the USA, Iran, and Iraq don’t have their own heads? Before firing at the bases, the airspace should at least be closed... or what?

[depressant]

By admitting its mistake, Iran has equalized and even surpassed the US's moral strength. Yes, we are! At least equal! And brave. Not in the bushes. Not ostriches with their heads in the sand. We are not so afraid of you and our cause is so just, so don’t bother, we are strong. This is a very advantageous political position, even if in fact there was a terrorist attack or an aircraft malfunction.
As a result, compared to the US, Iran looks more convincing and, as it were, more honest. Moreover, Trump is now being actively trampled by his own people, and there is unanimity in Iran, and the whole world is for Iran - not even because it is profitable for oil, but because the world gendarme has fed up with everyone.
So everyone broke through.
But it is worth remembering that Iran itself is not averse to becoming a gendarme in its region. Just like Türkiye.

[Kronos]

What nonsense after the assassination of Soleimani Iran lost 300 of its own people and the terrible revenge of the United States never took place

[Livonetc]

Quote: viking1703

all right. let all yesterday’s commentators who insulted the Dutch, laugh at the Ukrainian versions, etc. they will apologize to them and admit that they were mistaken with their cheers of patriotism.

I haven’t commented on this topic before.
I only considered it as new information appeared, as objective as possible.
However, now I'm looking at you,
in all its liberalist glory.
And what do the Dutch have to do with it?
They haven't even received any materials yet.
PS
I have a positive attitude towards liberals.

[Avior]

they received at the time of their application.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Avior

buddy, stop writing.
Ukraine did not admit its guilt, but at the same time paid compensation, there is such a legal rule Ex gratia.
And Siberia voluntarily stopped the continuation of the lawsuit, when they realized how clumsy the investigation of the IAC was and there was no actual evidence of a missile hit.
Still would. For the S-300 complex, it is not possible to check whether the backlight was on, without which the rocket, in principle, could not hit the target.

Who am I, your friend?

[Gennady Fomkin]

The Kyiv Economic Court on Tuesday refused to satisfy the claim of the Russian airline Siberia, whose Tu-154 passenger airliner was allegedly shot down by a missile during an exercise in 2001. RIA Novosti reports this with reference to the lawyer of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Andrey Kozlov.

The airline filed a lawsuit in the Kiev court against the Ministry of Defense and the State Treasury of Ukraine in 2004. Sibir demanded to recover $15,32 million from them. As a result, the company’s claim was denied: “We won this case. The court announced the operative part - the claim was completely denied,” Kozlov said. The defense lawyer did not talk about the reasons for this court decision.

Earlier, during a court hearing in Kyiv, an expert commission announced an unexpected conclusion. Experts have refuted the theory that the Russian plane that crashed over the Black Sea in 2001 was shot down by a Ukrainian air defense missile. According to their calculations, when the missile warhead was detonated, the distance to the Tu-154 was 780 m, which excludes the possibility of its destruction. In addition, the radar station that ensured the firing of the missile system tracked only its target and, due to its technical capabilities, could not track a passenger airliner moving in a different azimuth and at a different speed.

Forensic experts could not name the reliable causes of the plane crash, but did not rule out that the source of damage to the aircraft could have been inside the Tu-154. In their opinion, the cause of the disaster could have been an explosive device located between the ceiling of the interior of the aircraft and its body.

Relatives of the disaster victims are outraged by this interpretation of events. The head of the fund to help the families of the dead passengers of the Tu-154 of Siberia Airlines, Boris Kalinovsky, said: “Such information is puzzling. There is a conclusion from the IAC on the causes (of the crash). A serious investigation was carried out, and the parties agreed with the conclusions.”

Let us remind you that the tragedy over the Black Sea occurred on October 4, 2001. The Tu-154 airliner of the Russian airline Sibir, traveling from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk, was shot down by a Ukrainian S-200 missile. released during air defense exercises in Crimea. As a result of the disaster, 78 people died - 66 passengers (mostly Israeli citizens) and 12 crew members (Russians).

[awg75]

My condolences to the families and friends of the victims.

[Lone gunman]

Hellish sanctions have already been announced on Iran or not?! It looks like they didn’t answer “for the market”, and now they will receive from the entire “West”. There were numbers, as I understand it, hundreds of victims of the American “military” who ended up with hemorrhoids on their heads, I think that a “colorful revolution” will soon come to Iran, no matter what anyone says... It’s hard to imagine what’s going on in the families of the victims of the downed airliner, albeit by mistake - Iran does not need this. In general, they are all “blackamoors”.

[A hundred]

Quote: Lone gunman

Hellish sanctions have already been announced on Iran or not?! It looks like they didn’t answer “for the market”, and now they will receive from the entire “West”.

Along the way, the template of a downed Boeing over the Donbass awaits Iran, only in a bloodier version... It’s not for nothing that the US Congress (there are a lot of Jews there) suddenly forbade Trump to strike Iran without their knowledge (they don’t trust).. First they will persecute Iran in full, and then they will kill you, perhaps together with Russia and Syria... And the holiday will begin on their street...
I smell something like this in the genes...

[Lone gunman]

Yes...the situation...

[Livonetc]

Quote: Lone gunman

Hellish sanctions have already been announced on Iran or not?! It looks like they didn’t answer “for the market”, and now they will receive from the entire “West”. There were numbers, as I understand it, hundreds of victims of the American “military” who ended up with hemorrhoids on their heads, I think that a “colorful revolution” will soon come to Iran, no matter what anyone says... It’s hard to imagine what’s going on in the families of the victims of the downed airliner, albeit by mistake - Iran does not need this. In general, they are all “blackamoors”.

Remember how mattresses shot down an Iranian Boeing.
They are mattresses.

[Lone gunman]

Something has been unlucky for Iran since their last “revolution”, maybe... poor Iran.

[Gennady Fomkin]

There will be no apology from Iran. Rouhani has already said that the human factor. There was no order from the Iranian authorities to shoot down the plane. The soldier made a mistake when he pressed the button...he will apologize, but not the state of Iran. Moreover, the situation close to the war was created by the USA... they are the first to demand

[Lone gunman]

Iran fell for the provocation like a stupid boy... where is the wise east?!

[Avior]

lied about a technical malfunction until they were pinned against the wall with facts, also a soldier?

[Gennady Fomkin]

A petition has appeared on the website of the President of Ukraine, the author of which calls for, if the version of the UIA plane crash due to a missile strike is confirmed, to declare war on Iran.

The petition was registered on January 9 under the title “An act of external aggression against the state of Ukraine! International investigation into the crash of a Ukrainian airliner.” Its initiator is the founder of the all-Ukrainian business magazine "Business Companion" and blogger Igor Brazovsky. So far, the petition has received only 17 votes out of 25 thousand required.

[Gennady Fomkin]

So Rouhani already voiced all his wishes, a little earlier.

Zelensky simply cannot believe that he can so easily admit his guilt, apologize and agree to compensation.

Unlike Ukraine.

[A hundred]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Zelensky simply cannot believe that he can so easily admit his guilt, apologize and agree to compensation.

The tribe is like that, everyone always denies...

[Lone gunman]

Sometimes it happens that the cunning is not the one who is smart...

[Shahno]

Quote: Ramzay121

Quote: Nikitich

Iran well done ..

And in what fellows? That they killed innocent people? The Iranians tried to hide, but could not, too much evidence. It was necessary to confuse a civilian plane with a hostile one, and besides, flying out of Tehran airport. The poor were so scared

I also didn’t understand something here. It (the civilian plane) that the civilian air traffic controllers did not control it. And if they thought it was a B-52, it was that the air defense systems only detected it at the airport. Strange..

[Avior]

there is a version that, due to secrecy, the crew worked completely autonomously, did not have any information about the air situation, this was the cause of the error

[Dargavs]

Quote: depressant

By admitting its mistake, Iran has equalized and even surpassed the US's moral strength.

"On July 3, 1988, an Airbus A300B2-203 airliner took off from Tehran, the capital of Iran. It was heading first to the south of Iran, to the city of Bandar Abbas, and then to Dubai, UAE. There were 274 passengers on board, including 65 children, and 16 crew members. The plane took off from Bandar Abbas at 10:17 local time. And seven minutes later, over the Persian Gulf, it was shot down by a missile, which tore it in two. No one survived.
The missile was fired by the American cruiser Vincennes, which was in the Strait of Hormuz under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by warring Iran and Iraq. The ship was equipped with the Aegis combat information and control system, designed to destroy aircraft and missiles."
Just called...
Condolences to the families of the victims.

[atalef]

Quote: DargAVS

Just called

Arabic equation
One was damaged by shooting down a Russian IL, the other by shooting down a Ukrainian Boeing.

[Avior]

a few minutes before this there was a battle between the Americans and the Iranians with the participation of the cruiser, for some reason the liner was allowed into the thick of the battle (just like now, when the airport was not closed for a while immediately after the American attack), the crew of the liner did not respond to repeated requests from cruiser, although he heard them, which was recorded in black boxes, because he decided that they were not asking him, or for some other reason, and turned off course towards the cruiser, which the Americans “on the lookout” and unprepared for such situations perceived as a threat after a recent incident when an Iraqi plane suddenly attacked an American frigate, for which the commander of the frigate received a full slap on the cap.
The Americans never denied the fact that the airliner was shot down, but they blamed the fact that the plane ended up there on the Iranians.
but in the end they paid large compensation, although they did not admit their guilt....

[tihonmarine]

This conclusion was made by American intelligence, having studied satellite images and the circumstances of the crash of the aircraft.

Where are these satellite images of the downed NH-17?

[valeryb]

Quote: tihonmarine

Where are these satellite images of the downed NH-17?

Wait. There will be a trial, and some people will separate the Turus, and then they will be locked up.

[Shahno]

Quote: Olgovich

Quote: viking1703

Well, that means that the shooters would not have taken the capture of the Donbass cities and there would have been no downed Boeing in the Donbass. So by the lice of logic. It turns out Strelkov's provocation led to the downing of a Boeing.

There would be no fascist coup in Kiev in February 1914, there would be no Donbass.

Obviously not?

Honestly, not really. What happened in 1914?

[Klingon]

One thing I don’t understand is why the hell the airline didn’t cancel the flight or reschedule it during a missile attack

[destiny20]

Business. flying around is more expensive. so they come to an agreement. everything has been described long ago

[Shahno]

Quote: DargAVS

Quote: depressant

By admitting its mistake, Iran has equalized and even surpassed the US's moral strength.

"On July 3, 1988, an Airbus A300B2-203 airliner took off from Tehran, the capital of Iran. It was heading first to the south of Iran, to the city of Bandar Abbas, and then to Dubai, UAE. There were 274 passengers on board, including 65 children, and 16 crew members. The plane took off from Bandar Abbas at 10:17 local time. And seven minutes later, over the Persian Gulf, it was shot down by a missile, which tore it in two. No one survived.
The missile was fired by the American cruiser Vincennes, which was in the Strait of Hormuz under the pretext of protecting Kuwaiti tankers from attacks by warring Iran and Iraq. The ship was equipped with the Aegis combat information and control system, designed to destroy aircraft and missiles."
Just called...
Condolences to the families of the victims.

//Just called//
Are you trying to pay the Iranians a compliment now? Yes, a decisive answer...only there were US military personnel not so far away, no, at bases.

[Reader 2013]

And about the plane with the artists that crashed in Sochi, flying to Syria, a couple of years ago, there was silence

[Lone gunman]

This is called censorship... and not because the investigation was completed long ago, shifting the load... well, yes or yes, well...

[engineer74]

The situation is the same as with the Sakhalin Boeing in 1983. They drove the plane where it was not needed, when it was not needed! The great art of provocation, only the stereotyped actions of potential partners will ultimately destroy.
IMHO
Happy memory to the victims of the “Great Game”.

[Avior]

Even the Iranians did not think of such a wild accusation.
The plane took off along the established route and did not fly into any restricted areas.
And at a distance of 20 km from the airport, it was only gaining altitude.

[engineer74]

By the way, doesn’t Israel, by chance, have electronic warfare systems that, according to them, can “mislead” any Soviet/Russian air defense systems?

[Avior]

Maybe he has it, maybe he’s just showing off
Only it was very far from Israel

[engineer74]

The Americans, according to them, disabled Yugoslav S-125s via the Internet...

[Avior]

They are good at composing, however
It’s even interesting to which place on the S-125 they connected the Internet to
F-117 was also shot down via the Internet.?
Will you post a link to this nonsense?

[engineer74]

I would love to, but in 1999 I didn’t have the Internet. After the downing of the F-117, this was reported on TV by American hackers.

[audigamma]

How will atalef react to this?

[lopuhan2006]

Any information conveyed to the viewer, listener, electorate, etc. is incomplete, distorted, corrected and does not represent a true picture of what happened. So, you can throw beads and cross swords as much as you like, as they say - The dog barks, the caravan moves on....

[Charik]

What’s the argument? Everyone lies, from a baby to the president, and it’s especially noticeable when you’ve known a person for a long time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=28&v=jKFbpj3kch0&feature=emb_logo

[Shahno]

Quote: Olgovich

Quote: Lontus

Trump eliminated the 2nd man of Iran (retaliation for an attack on the embassy as an excuse)
nor did he lose anyone.

Tapm got hit in the face in response and ... did not answer. Remained with a bat muzzle - no 52 "retaliatory strikes ...

Swallowed, smiling ....

From medicine...
How many sane people will blame themselves for having a headache after the removal of two teeth, when it became known that inflammation of the facial nerve is brewing (and everyone understands the certain likelihood of serious complications after anesthesia).
You know what I mean...
That's why he smiled.

[Jarserge]

Unprofessional air defense, shooting down a civilian plane (sorry, the “cow” on the radar mark in the area of ​​​​responsibility of the capital’s airport, which took off on schedule). The good guys admitted the mistake, of course, but you can’t bring people back.

[destiny20]

Well done? Why are these great guys all of a sudden? The downing would become known not today, but tomorrow. The consequences would only be worse. And so this is a game to reduce the payment. At least they give themselves a chance to get away with less

[Jarserge]

Why did the French and Germans cancel their flights during rocket attacks on American bases, but the Ukrainian plane took off? Where does such dementia and courage come from? What's the urgency? Did he need it more than anyone else?
Or why did the head of the Iranian Foreign Ministry admit that this plane was shot down “by a tragic mistake”?
Why did he admit it at all (they could, like the Ukrainians, deny it for years)?
Why did he admit it now?
Why did the head of the Foreign Ministry recognize it, and not the military? I think that if something similar (God forbid) happened in Russia, then Shoigu would speak, not Lavrov...

[Altai72]

Something like this ...

[Bratkov Oleg]

This picture is crap. The Americans began to use weapons in Iran, and the Ukrainian plane, not following the instructions of the dispatchers, turns towards a military facility. The pilots are to blame, all the blame is on them, and maybe on those who gave them such an order.

[faterdom]

Don’t the Americans admit that they are indirectly guilty? After all, they created a nervous situation!
What about the Ukrainians, who never cancel civilian flights over areas of combat operations, or possible military bases?
But God somehow distributed it in his own way: the situation was strained out of the blue by the Americans, the Iranians shot down the plane, albeit by mistake, and mostly Canadians, Europeans and Ukrainians died.
And whose fault is the most original and greatest here? If for the West the answer is self-evident, then everything is quite fair. And the life of a European, Canadian or American is worth no more than an Iranian, Syrian or Libyan.

[Dargavs]

Quote: atalef

Arabic equation
One lost by shooting down a Russian IL, the other by shooting down a Ukrainian Boeing.

If you like analogies, then it’s different: one stood out by shooting down an Iranian Airbus, the other stood out by shooting down a Russian 134 with Israeli passengers.
And the meaning of the phrase was “having recognized it, I received moral strength,” but it has not surpassed it yet.

[Woland]

I have. proposal to our government - Let them offer Iran all the compensation that. they will have to transfer to Ukraine to Russia for the downing of our plane on the Black Sea, flying from Israel

[Bratkov Oleg]

This is not the first time the United States has sacrificed civilians, two times Boeings shot down passenger planes over the USSR, South Korean ones, now they have cheaper meat - residents of Ukraine. Well, well, "America is with them..."
The plane, without warning the dispatchers, turned towards a military facility. It turns out they checked the air defense... Well, they checked it.

[gloomy fox]

A fatal mistake, a tragic accident. It’s a pity again that it was not the fault of the people killed and again because of the United States. Although Iran is also to blame for this tragedy, But unlike Ukraine, which still has not admitted that they themselves shot down the Malaysian Boeing, Iran admitted that yes, it was its fault.

[kiril1246]

I think Israel is to blame. It was his fighters who hid behind the Ukrainian side.

[atalef]

Quote: kiril1246

I think Israel is to blame. It was his fighters who hid behind the Ukrainian side.

[cat Rusich]

Iran admitted that Iranian air defenses shot down a Ukrainian Boeing on January 8. Now let's see what punishment "those who directly shot down the plane" will suffer. Will high-ranking "air defense officials" be punished?

[Levius EN]

Everything on the outskirts is cursed. Either they knock them down themselves or they drop them.

[Esaul]

I hope these human mistakes are shot

[destiny20]

Alas, they won’t start from the very top

[Dart]

Quote: Prosha

interesting people in Israel

That's putting it mildly...

[iuocsfyu]

Sad day. Preliminary findings of the internal investigation of the Armed Forces (Iran): a human error made during the crisis due to US adventurism led to disaster

- Etc.
And how the patriots tried, defended Iran, more patriotic than the Iranians themselves, who immediately leaked the rocket debris to Twitter.
And the version is not the same for them, and the machinations of the State Department, and in general...
But it was clear right away. It’s just that some made a mistake on their own land, while others “made a mistake” by seizing someone else’s. This is the difference. Such events show who is worth what.

[Evil Booth]

It would seem this is trolling. but this is stability.