Military Review

US and Turkey will jointly evaluate the potential impact of C-400 on F-35

78

Turkey and the United States will jointly evaluate the potential impact of the Russian S-400 air defense system on the American F-35 fighter. The press secretary of the President of Turkey, Ibrahim Kalyn, announced the start of work in this direction.


According to Kaln, the joint work of Washington and Ankara on the potential impact of C-400 on the F-35 has already begun. He specified that Turkey will not integrate the Russian anti-aircraft system into NATO’s air defense system. At the same time, Ankara is not going to abandon C-400 and, despite the warning, will put the system on combat alert.

Today we started work on creating a mechanism for (impact assessment) C-400 and F-35. The process will go along with the USA

- he said.

Meanwhile, the US Senate reiterated that if Turkey does not abandon the Russian S-400 air defense systems, then Washington will impose sanctions. According to James Rish, head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senators at the meeting between Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan "warned of devastating sanctions."

Riesch said that Turkey will not receive American F-35 fighters until it abandons the Russian C-400. According to the senator, he, as chairman of the foreign affairs committee, intends to work to ensure that "the chances of sending F-35 from the US to Turkey are zero."

Earlier, the Turkish president said that he was not going to abandon the Russian anti-aircraft system, and called US pressure an attempt to influence Turkish sovereignty.
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  1. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 16 November 2019 07: 10 New
    +4
    Let’s see how much Turkey has steel Faberges for buying S - 400 from Russia in a stand with the USA on this issue, or they will bend again.
    In general, in vain Russia has tied itself to a contract to supply Turkey with such an advanced system as the S-400, since it is a NATO country and there are many other unfriendly moments between our countries.
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 16 November 2019 07: 18 New
      +16
      Any commission is forced to decide whether it is necessary to exaggerate or downplay the results of its activities (the option to say as is is not considered if the result of the commission affects large financial flows)
      So the commission has two options.
      1) To say that the S-400 is not dangerous for the F-35. The result is to make the United States nice, to make Russia muck, to announce that Erdogan has thrown money away.
      2) To say that the S-400 will easily make the F-35. The result is the opposite.
      It is a pity that the real results in the media will never know.
      1. knn54
        knn54 16 November 2019 09: 45 New
        -1
        Friendship will win.
      2. astepanov
        astepanov 16 November 2019 16: 08 New
        +5
        Quote: Shurik70
        So the commission has two options.

        There is a third option. The Turks acquired the S-400 in order to work out (together with the US and NATO) both tactics for overcoming the S-400 and means for counteraction and destruction calmly and without threat to equipment and pilots. And all this squabble of Erdogan with NATO is nothing more than a smokescreen. Well, at least, the export option has less potential than the "home" one.
        And, if so, was it necessary to sell the S-400 to the Turks? They were never friends, and now they are only situational partners at best.
        1. Son of sorts
          Son of sorts 16 November 2019 19: 44 New
          0
          With 300 in Greece since the 90s. They all know. Let them produce it, we will get our billions. Tactics have long been known, the closer to the ground, the less likely to catch a missile from our air defense .... And below the MANPADS ... whatever you like, so fly ....
    2. Marxal2019
      Marxal2019 16 November 2019 07: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: Spartanez300
      In general, in vain Russia has tied itself with a contract for the supply of Turkey of such an advanced system as C - 400

      Isn't it better to lure the 2nd NATO army to yourself? Especially economically Turkey is also important. Turkish stream is a great deal. If Ukraine and Dad start to push their own profit, that is, where to sell gas and oil.
      Quote: Spartanez300
      and there are many other unfriendly moments between our countries.

      Come on honestly. Who armed and trained the working party of Kurdistan against Turkey, and indeed whose project is this? Voooot. I would definitely not love the country that wants the victims of my people and undermine my country. And so such examples are not few.
      Quote: Spartanez300
      Let's see how much Turkey has Faberge steel

      Erdogan is stubborn, there is no question, but if Vuolt Street really wants to, he will be able to shatter the Turkish economy as 2 by 2.
      1. private person
        private person 16 November 2019 09: 26 New
        +4
        Isn't it better to lure the 2nd NATO army to yourself?

        Are you serious? Something went wrong.
        1. Son of sorts
          Son of sorts 16 November 2019 19: 53 New
          -1
          It's better. They won’t come up with anything new. Everyone has long known both the principles of work and the possibilities. Let them know and they’re racking their brains on how to deal with this and how to teach planes to fly 5 meters above the ground and not be shot down by MANPADS.
    3. parkello
      parkello 16 November 2019 09: 43 New
      -1
      well, now it happened so. they sold the S-400 to the Turks ... they all seemed to have provided, otherwise they would not have sold it. Turks can drag you into a war, in a confrontation with NATO. by that time, little will be left of the alliance, but the war is not pleasant to anyone .. even with a partially collapsed bloc. and Erdogan really wants to get f-35th, so he will do everything to please the Americans. he really wants Turkey to have the strongest army in the region. afraid and ..but on his fear you can play well. just not at a loss ... or the Turks will be too greasy and they will build a nuclear power plant and the Turkish stream and the S-400 ... as if the matter did not get to the planes. and then if Trump does not sell them the f-35 (which is quite realistic) he will look for an alternative to the f-35 and may turn out to be a client of the Kremlin for this part or Pekkin recourse
      1. Son of sorts
        Son of sorts 16 November 2019 20: 00 New
        -1
        The development of such systems costs a lot of money! And this is our money! It is necessary to recoup development, except in the case of the USSR this will be a heavy burden. I think there will be no damage to us militarily, anyway a stripped down version and the question which radars have raised, 100% is not like ours. And billions will not stop us.
      2. mammadov teymur
        mammadov teymur 18 November 2019 08: 27 New
        0
        they (Turks) gathered their aircraft carriers under f 35 which takes off vertically from that so much noise about this
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 16 November 2019 20: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: Spartanez300
      Let's see how much Turkey has Faberge steel for buying C - 400

      They ALREADY bought the first batch of Triumphs and it has already been deployed in Turkey.
      Quote: Spartanez300
      In general, in vain Russia has tied itself with a contract for the supply of Turkey of such an advanced system as C - 400

      Before writing this, you looked WHAT MISSILES for export come with these complexes, and which are not sold for export at all. The fact that the export option in both electronics and arsenal is very curtailed was understandable from the very beginning.
  2. kjhg
    kjhg 16 November 2019 07: 11 New
    +23

    Turkey and the United States will jointly evaluate the potential impact of the Russian S-400 air defense system on the American F-35 fighter
    Does this mean, in translation into normal language, that the United States will have the opportunity to comprehensively study the filling and capabilities of the S-400 in exchange for lifting the ban on the supply of F-35 Turkey?
    1. AlexVas44
      AlexVas44 16 November 2019 07: 17 New
      +1
      Definitely what to study, though the export option. Americans are not new, with the S-300 they are probably familiar.
      1. Marxal2019
        Marxal2019 16 November 2019 07: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: AlexVas44
        Definitely what to study, though the export option. Americans are not new, with the S-300 they are probably familiar.

        Right. Greece and before Greece in Armenia studied.
        1. parkello
          parkello 16 November 2019 09: 51 New
          +5
          did not understand that, what, that Greece? sad and before Greece, when the United States purchased from Belarus, the S-300, nothing ..? and what could they study here when for 12 years they were laid apart and not even in one place ... but scattered around the island. fool once they were assembled, checked, and there were Russian specialists who assembled the shooting complex. and no one has access to the command post except direct operators. the Greeks shot down an Israeli UAV when they checked the complex, but all that can be said by and large is that the S-300PMU-1 perfectly distinguishes targets and knows how to accompany them. be it an UAV or f-35 or any other flying bucket.
    2. Dikson
      Dikson 16 November 2019 07: 32 New
      +2
      Without a doubt, a friend of Erdogan, for the sake of the favor of the United States and in return for withdrawing claims regarding the seizure of Syrian territory, will kindly provide an opportunity for the Americans to disassemble the S-400 screws ...
    3. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 16 November 2019 07: 34 New
      +1
      Here it’s fitting to recall Ludwig Aristarkhovich with his immortal: “Oh, her, her, whoa did it?”
    4. Binder
      Binder 16 November 2019 07: 51 New
      -11
      There is no doubt that the TTX S-400 has long been known to the Americans, there is nothing new for them.
    5. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 16 November 2019 07: 53 New
      -4
      That means. That's just the point, which means ... So those commentators who predicted such a turn were right.
    6. Son of sorts
      Son of sorts 16 November 2019 20: 04 New
      -1
      Learn and what? -) For this they sold it .-) Let them think even harder. They studied with 300 more in Greece. Let them understand how much the C 400 is better than the C 300, and then figure everything out relative to the C500 .-) A deterrence weapon comes out, no worse than a nuclear triad .-)
  3. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 16 November 2019 07: 29 New
    +2
    The most direct impact can have. Run the 35th, let's see how invisible it is.
  4. elfik
    elfik 16 November 2019 07: 34 New
    0
    They will jointly look for the weaknesses of the C400, train to destroy the complex. Expected! Hucksters just to sell and put money in offshore, and do not care about the national interests of Russia
  5. demo
    demo 16 November 2019 07: 53 New
    +2
    As stated by the head of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, James Riesch, Senators at a meeting of Donald Trump with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan "warned of devastating sanctions."

    I did not understand.
    But did the senators attend the meeting between Trump and Erdogan?

    And more.
    Turkey and the United States will jointly evaluate the potential impact of the Russian S-400 air defense system on the American F-35 fighter. The press secretary of the President of Turkey, Ibrahim Kalyn, announced the start of work in this direction.

    Well, appreciated.
    Will the conclusions be announced?
    If 400 can easily see the “invisible”, will Turkey report all this to the world or start blackmailing the hegemon, squeezing all American gingerbreads in its favor?
    Or report that there is nothing wrong?
    Then how does this “come around” for us?

    Putin will bite his elbows more than once or twice, for the connection with this "twisted Turkish tail."
  6. rich
    rich 16 November 2019 08: 02 New
    +3
    in the US Senate reiterated that if Turkey does not abandon the Russian S-400, then Washington will impose sanctions

    Erdogan is a grated guy and understands perfectly well that from the "friends" of the Americans, and from his own pro-NATO generals, you can expect a catch at any time, so he needs air defense against NATO technology
  7. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 16 November 2019 08: 13 New
    0
    Once the lazy just did not write about it, but we have a lot of short-sighted "harboring" patriots, especially adherents of one party.
  8. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 16 November 2019 08: 19 New
    +1
    Yes, they would immediately deliver to the American training ground. There, both the research base and the pilots can be driven away more.
  9. Jerk
    Jerk 16 November 2019 08: 21 New
    0
    Judging by the source, there’s a joke about the fact that the S-400 still interact with the F-35, which Turkey doesn’t have, but it can interact))) And humor - yes) Fly-fly ... But away ... then we can check the interaction)))
  10. G. Georgiev
    G. Georgiev 16 November 2019 08: 33 New
    -2
    What a mistake. Even send them, Russian specialists, to explain everything to them. And how much did Russia receive from this sale? Now I want the Russians to block the S-400 from a distance, until the committee leaves.
  11. Whisper
    Whisper 16 November 2019 08: 49 New
    +4
    Quote: demo

    Putin will bite his elbows more than once or twice, for the connection with this "twisted Turkish tail."

    Those. Do you think that Erdogan bought a pig in a poke, and now he will study what it is that the Russians sold me? Nah .... I think for such commissions there is a separate mode of operation of the complex. You press the button and f35 is not visible. Everyone is happy. Press again and it appears ...
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 16 November 2019 08: 51 New
    +4
    Here sho congress striped striped? The Sultan is already trying to cooperate with them as much as they charge!
    It’s for us, as it were, we need to strain .... only there is a feeling that they will not find anything fundamentally new unknown to their scientists. Rather, there is a combination of many standard solutions, harmoniously combined, give such an effective slaughter product!
    1. Vita vko
      Vita vko 16 November 2019 13: 11 New
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      they will not find anything fundamentally new unknown to their scientists.

      Theory is one thing; practice may turn out to be completely different. The precedents for the supply of S-300 to NATO countries were repeatedly and this did not annoy anyone. Therefore, the catch with US blackmail on F-35 is not in the S-400 itself, but in the American specialists' admission to the product itself with the aim of developing countermeasures, which should subsequently be used in modernized versions of the F-35. Otherwise, the situation may be the same as in Yugoslavia, when near the air defense systems without any missiles the SNR turned on the radiation and NATO pilots immediately ejected.
      Naturally, in Turkey, after an attempted military coup organized by the United States, a scandal with Gulen and support for the Kurdish YPGs, they perfectly understand who the real threat is and do not want to meet American ambitions to the detriment of their own security.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 16 November 2019 14: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Vita VKO
        do not want to meet American ambitions to the detriment of their own security

        But this is true. In that set of equipment, “the highlight” is inherent only in this supply. Modern "smart" technology, it is a platform that allows these or other changes, distinguishing !!!
        It's the same as 2 * 2 !!! Why others do not want to understand this .... read used literature, less senseless noise was used!
        1. Crane
          Crane 16 November 2019 16: 27 New
          -1
          rocket757
          In that set of equipment, “the highlight” is inherent only in this supply.
          =============
          Where did you get this information, and why are you disclosing it?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 16 November 2019 17: 32 New
            0
            MY INFORMATION IS YEARS SO .... 30 with a hook!
            SO always did! And at the time when I worked and was admitted to .....
            So do ALL manufacturers of equipment for sale, outside the state of affiliation of the developer / manufacturer.
            Do you think the equipment is OWN - ALIEN, everyone has the same ..... there even the connection connectors may differ ....
            Now, with the modern development of technology, electronics, this is NOT a QUESTION at all! Flexible architect, the most valuable, secret, assembled like puzzles! To each "own drawing" ...
      2. Monar
        Monar 16 November 2019 16: 36 New
        0
        An interesting theory. But how will the NATO pilots (even if at least 100500 muleins of their specialists on the C-400 screw be dismantled) distinguish charged or not SAM? The rocket is then any in the initial phase of the flight in passive. And inside the launch container all the more.
        They made the decision to pull the catapult to death (judging by your post) on the fact that the radar was irradiated, and not according to the descent of the missiles from the guides.
    2. Demon_is_ada
      Demon_is_ada 16 November 2019 13: 54 New
      +1
      Victor hi , there really is a brilliant combination of flaky well-known truths and a detection range of much more than 400 km lol only there’s nothing to shoot crying and Erdogan’s export doesn’t have this lotion, he doesn’t need it, Turkey is a small country ...
      I realized here that the deal for 100 lard - now it’s clear, they are testing, they say that they “don’t see” the best guarantee and ... Erdogan after some time buys from five more divisions with 35 freebies for selling f400 to believers Loham, receives free planes, participates in cooperation, etc., etc. The main thing is to shave off and tell my mother to bow - ne sees! laughing Americans benefit politically in addition to economic benefits. Those who believe, believing in invisibility climb everywhere provoking wars, the more mess, the more profitable America. Really good deal laughing
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 16 November 2019 14: 40 New
        +1
        The East is so delicate that you can come up with a lot of versions, some will coincide with the further course of events ... but this is all a fortune-telling.
        We’ll just look at how much ours could foresee and do everything that is necessary in such cases.
        Any tragedy will not happen! But whether the acquisitions will be sufficient for the tough fuss to go outside, and inside the country the discussion is going in different directions.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 16 November 2019 17: 04 New
          0
          Here, the thing is this: the air defense system control algorithm is quite plastic in that it is able to control the equipment in several algorithmically different versions, but one manual is applied to the export version, and another to its own, and the same device can operate under different algorithms.
          There is absolutely no likelihood that the Turks will receive the source of software. There is very little chance that someone genius will be able to catch the difference and make changes - the device will simply refuse to work.
          And taking into account the fact that nobody forbade putting bookmarks in sealed blocks, a simple press of a button turns an air defense system worth $ 100 million into a pile of scrap metal.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 16 November 2019 17: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: hydrox
            And taking into account the fact that nobody forbade putting bookmarks in sealed blocks, a simple press of a button turns an air defense system worth $ 100 million into a pile of scrap metal

            My experience is outdated of course, but the PRINCIPLES of preserving Goss and other secrets are unchanged!
            I remember very well that the components, blocks and even components of the PRODUCT were marked, but in fact WERE DIFFERENT! For their own, just a product, but for the "allies" or distant wards, a completely different calico, other criteria, mood settings and CODES !!!
            Someone thinks that now is different?
            Some kind of nonsense, like they sold everything and everything, for a snuff of tobacco ....
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 16 November 2019 18: 59 New
              +1
              No, it’s not outdated, it just became thinner and Jesuit :: the time of broken capacitors, transistors and zener diodes is over, and a single pulse of 15 V is supplied to the power of MULTIPLE IC keys, it can be implemented in almost every IC on any board ... well, it’s impossible repair a board that was killed in this way, even if you have a manual (weighing half a ton) with diagrams and time diagrams on your hands!
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 16 November 2019 20: 18 New
                +1
                Once upon a time, it was necessary to repair imported equipment on the knee, without everything, schemes, manuals, etc. It was possible to CREATE an analogue of imported microcircuits, discrete radio parts !!! WORKED!
                Now it’s even impossible to imagine such a thing! The degree of reduction of radio components goes to nano units!
                And about the work algorithms, codes and say no.
                Our opponents will not extract anything unknown to them from the purchased equipment. And for the sake of that well-known, but somewhat differently used, they WILL NOT change their technology!
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 16 November 2019 21: 50 New
                  -5
                  Nobody cares about the details and microchips.
                  They check the operation of the Macro complex as a black box.
                  Drive various types of aircraft in front of the radar
                  at various heights, distances and from different angles.
                  And they will see when the target is captured, and when not.
                  And you don’t need to know anything else.
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 16 November 2019 22: 25 New
                    +3
                    Yes, it’s not about that: they won’t be able to extract any know-how from there and even simply repeat the product - otherwise why they still haven’t done anything even close alike - the laws of physics are the same for Israel, for the States, and for Russia.
                    That C400, 500, that Su-57, that a bunch of these Avant-garde hyper-Zircons ... you will have it in 5, 7, 10, 12 years - so you can wave your hands as much as you like, and owning technologies is still inaccessible.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 16 November 2019 23: 32 New
                      -5
                      "they will not be able to extract from there and even just repeat the product" ////
                      ----
                      Really impossible to repeat - a completely different base
                      electronics.
                  2. rocket757
                    rocket757 17 November 2019 09: 12 New
                    0
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    And they will see when the target is captured, and when not.
                    And you don’t need to know anything else

                    And then what? They find out, and then what? Will airplanes do differently or fly differently?
                    Moreover, the next generation of missiles will be with different parameters, business then!
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 17 November 2019 10: 59 New
                      -3
                      "Will airplanes do differently or fly differently?" ////
                      ----
                      You got it right. For each complex, after many training “attacks” against it, the optimal tactics of using electronic warfare, false targets, targets with a particular EPR are selected, and a set of distances, attack heights and missile defense maneuvers for each type of aircraft is selected.
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 17 November 2019 11: 21 New
                        0
                        Actually, I just have to KNOW, REMEMBER, that’s exactly ....
                        even if I'm from the former, but .... but by and large, what has changed?
                        Just now, the methods have become more flexible, more complex!
                        In fact, any opposition becomes more expensive, more complicated than the direct impact on the object, which is dangerous or interferes.
                      2. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 17 November 2019 11: 30 New
                        -3
                        It is impossible to remember here. Avionics is developing rapidly. For example, it flies towards the Raman target complex. Its sensors detect that it is irradiated by a radar of a certain frequency. The target changes its EPR from 1 m2 to 10 m2 with the characteristic "marks" F-16. The complex launches two missiles on F-16, as expected. The first one hits the target. A pair of targets and the battery is dead. Further it is easy to imagine her fate.
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 17 November 2019 11: 49 New
                        0
                        The question is, do you even understand what air defense is, in its full "volume"?
                        I am "touched" by all of these assessments, arguments, regarding the DEFICIENCIES that are now stuck here and there! All data being obtained now is a LOCAL analysis of a specific situation.
                        Honestly, it looks like the butting of some of the most vigorous ..... about nothing, because if you touch ALL THE STOCK, the situation will be completely different.
                      4. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 17 November 2019 11: 56 New
                        -2
                        It's right...
                        But I, too, did not present an attack on air defense with all the bells and whistles in full. Only one modern "brick", as an example.
                        ALL BREEDS and hunters (the most diverse) come out more.
                        Thank you for the dialogue. hi
                      5. rocket757
                        rocket757 17 November 2019 12: 08 New
                        0
                        One thing is obvious. Everyone will be better off if they don’t have to check how it will turn out when “the whole herd” rushes into ... the abyss. soldier
                      6. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 17 November 2019 12: 14 New
                        -3
                        That's for sure! good drinks
                2. Liam
                  Liam 17 November 2019 12: 17 New
                  -1
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  A pair of targets and the battery is dead. It’s easy to imagine her fate.

                  The fate of the battery is usually decided at the moment when it turns on its radar. Within seconds after that, the radar receives its own HARM and the battery will sing a couple of cluster bombs
            2. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 18 November 2019 10: 49 New
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              the optimal tactics of using electronic warfare, false targets, targets with a certain EPR are selected, and a set of distances, attack heights and anti-ballistic maneuvers methods for each type of aircraft is selected

              There is a high probability that modern air defense systems have not been two-dimensional in terms of tactics for a long time, and export versions cannot do much that the “full versions” can lay out to “smash all raspberries” with developed flat countermeasures. winked
            3. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 18 November 2019 10: 56 New
              -2
              Missile defense is a passive defense method. No matter how flexible the software of the complex is, it all comes down to a stable capture of the target and a shot. If you hesitate, the enemy’s plane will fly up and shoot itself. And the kit will die.
              If you shoot too early, the enemy’s plane will maneuver and leave.
              That’s what they feel in the exercises with the help of all kinds of electronic “jokes”
            4. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 18 November 2019 11: 11 New
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Missile defense is a passive defense method.

              Developing the tactics of counteraction "you need to see everyone." Air defense around the world, as it were, consists of echelons and has long been a complex SYSTEM. Knowledge of one element of the system without knowledge of its interaction with other components of the system gives a minimum of conclusions. For example, you were taught to switch to green on a pedestrian crossing, and you blindfolded decided to run across ... a highway ... on a diagonal ... just because you are a stealth wink
            5. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 18 November 2019 11: 28 New
              -2
              "Air defense around the world, as it were, consists of echelons and has long been a complex SYSTEM." ////
              ----
              In any case, ALL elements of this system are passive. At least do 10 levels. And there is always the concept of a "weak link". Having knocked it out, you destroy the connection between the levels of defense and chaos begins - random shooting at everything that "seems" is flying. As in Syrian air defense.
              Active air defense is done by fighters that fly forward to intercept enemy aircraft. Only they can mix attackers' plans.
              Therefore, without a significant number of modern fighters, the purchase of air defense missile systems is money thrown to the wind.
            6. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 18 November 2019 13: 43 New
              0
              Static air defense is an obsolete stamp. The same Armor / Torah proved that the air defense can not necessarily be rigidly attached to the coordinate grid, the use of network-centric - that the "weak link" is just part of the whole. Air defense without electronic warfare is not considered anywhere else. As for the Air Force, American passions about the impossibility of integrating the S-400 are just a reluctance to let outsiders into its territory, and the Saudis have any fighters.
              (do not aggro on cons, anyway not mine)
  • hydrox
    hydrox 16 November 2019 22: 47 New
    +2
    That time ended a long time ago, but today is a different stage: for our opponents to find out THAT we got ahead of them so much in the air defense system - this is a matter of the survival of their military industrial complex - as the F-35 and Patriot ratings are falling, there’s no need to talk from them ALL refuse (except for those who do not have enough sovereignty to refuse), but it is they who should at least try to slander and spoil our air defense systems - otherwise the hegemon gendarme appears before all naked and worthless, and not all reputation holes can be closed with money ...
  • Monar
    Monar 16 November 2019 15: 26 New
    0
    They will appreciate the potential impact of the Russian S-400 air defense system on the American F-35 fighter.
    Interesting terminology. How will the S-400 affect the F-35? From radar radiation to a fighter, it is neither cold nor hot. If only a rocket shandarahnut, then yes. Effect on the face. More precisely on the F-35.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 November 2019 11: 47 New
      -4
      "From radar radiation to a fighter, it is neither cold nor hot." ///
      ----
      It is "cold", "warm", "hot." laughing
      Like in a children's game. After "hot" (a clear capture of the target) a shot occurs.
      If you shoot at "cold", the fighter will have time to leave.
      1. Monar
        Monar 17 November 2019 12: 27 New
        0
        Please tell me, how on the basis of studying the exposure of Patriots, pilots will determine a clear target capture by the S-400 system?
        If the Israelis trained in terms of avoiding air defense systems, then it is quite logical. Here Patriot as a probable opponent is quite worthy. All pilots are training for this situation.
        But what the hell (sorry for the emotions) did the zhurnalyugi tie our system? In addition to "blah blah blah" I did not see anything in the TS article.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 November 2019 12: 31 New
          -3
          About the S-400 in the original, not a word at all. There about the S-300. The Patriot was shown to foreigners the standard methods of testing air defense systems and anti-radar and anti-missile techniques from aircraft. I think they were not given Israeli secrets either.
          1. Monar
            Monar 17 November 2019 13: 15 New
            0
            About the S-400 in the original, not a word at all. There about the S-300.
            Yes. Wrong. In writing.
            Does that make sense?
            I repeat. And here is the standard training of pilots and fiction zhurnalyugi?
  • janeck
    janeck 16 November 2019 17: 35 New
    +5
    the plot slowly famously spins.
  • eklmn
    eklmn 16 November 2019 18: 59 New
    0
    From the air defense system, 2 things are needed - to detect and correctly direct the missile ASAP. If the goal is fuzzy, then launching a rocket is pointless, and if it is clear, then launching a rocket may be too late - it all depends on the sensitivity of the sensors.
    For the curious:
    The National Interest in an August 2019 article entitled
    F-35 vs S-400 - can the Russian s-400 system resist the invisible?
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-vs-s-400-could-russias-best-air-defenses-take-americas-best-stealth-fighters-77106
    “Enhanced Russian air defense systems, such as the S-300, S-400, and the upcoming S-500 family, come with systems designed to detect and track the presence of stealth aircraft (LO), such as the F-22 and F-35. This is just a function of physics, as I noted earlier. The problem for Moscow is that although Russian early warning and detection radars operating in the VHF, UHF, L and S bands can detect and even track tactical stealth fighter aircraft, these systems do not provide high-quality tracking. “Russia has invested in low-frequency early warning radars, with some great options, but can it use them to get a good picture and process it to develop a trajectory for stealth aircraft?”
    “Physics dictates that a tactical stealth aircraft must be invisible to high frequency bands such as C, X and Ku bands, which are used by fire control radars to produce a high-resolution track. Representatives of industry, the air force and the navy agree that a “step change” occurs in the signature of the LO aircraft as soon as the frequency wavelength exceeds a certain threshold and causes a resonant effect, which usually occurs in the upper part of the S-band.
    “Typically, this resonant effect occurs when an element on an aircraft, such as a tail fin, is eight times smaller than the size of a wave of a certain frequency. In fact, small invisible aircraft that do not have tolerances in size or weight to cover two feet or more of radar absorbing coatings on each surface are forced to make transactions regarding which frequency bands they are optimized for. This means that fighter stealth will appear on radars operating in lower frequency ranges, such as parts of the S or L range or even lower frequencies. Large invisible planes, such as the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit or the upcoming B-21, do not have many glider characteristics that produce a resonance effect, and as such are much more effective against low frequency radars.
    “For Russians, the solution to the problem of targeting an inconspicuous aircraft is something they continue to work on, but it is doubtful that Moscow has solved this problem. Russia's strong investments in air defense systems tell us that the Kremlin believes that the main threat to its ground forces comes from US aviation. Thus, the defeat of stealth technology is one of Moscow's top priorities, notes Kofman, and the Kremlin has allocated a lot of resources.
    “Russia has tried a number of different methods to defeat stealth technology. Among them is an attempt to create a close integrated air defense network with several radars trying to look at the same aircraft from different directions, but how effective these efforts were remains an open question. “It's great to see an airplane or parts of it, but getting such accuracy so that you can confidently hold a rocket close to the target is a paramount task,” Kofman said.
    Although the Russians - and the Chinese - have not yet solved the problem, it is obvious that over time the trick becomes much less profitable, although perhaps no less expensive. In the end, Moscow will find a solution to the invisibility problem, since the cyclic struggle between offensive and defense continues indefinitely - it's just a matter of time. ”
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 16 November 2019 22: 33 New
      0
      NI is a frivolous source, I would not give him such a degree of trust in your place ...
      1. eklmn
        eklmn 16 November 2019 23: 34 New
        0
        The author of the article in NI describes the situation from the point of view of physics, because its (physicists) laws relate to both the locator / reflection of invisibility_ and the recognition of the target by the receiver. And these laws apply to all countries. Until the receiver receives a clear target, the missile cannot be guided. Invisibles are visible with overseas locators measuring 100m by 100m per 1000km, but they cannot direct missiles. Physics can’t be fooled ....
        Russia could not make a breakthrough on the sly, this is not the 19th century ...
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 17 November 2019 00: 21 New
          +3
          You allow yourself an erroneous approach: for today's defeat technologies it’s not at all necessary to have an image of a digital quality target at the maximum launch range, it is enough to KNOW the bearing on which the target is located and launch the RVV-DB with the active radar of the seeker from a distance of 300 km (especially if the target coordinates gave the plane AWACS). At a distance of 70-50 km, the GSN radar is switched on, capture is made and there is simply no time left for the target to at least somehow counteract this RVV database, which at a speed of 6M leaves no chance for the target.
          And yet :: if you are not an illiterate journalist, avoid using the term "invisible" (all goals are visible to one degree or another, you can aim at any of them and the success of your battle depends only on the perfection of your weapons).
          1. eklmn
            eklmn 17 November 2019 05: 28 New
            +1
            “... if you are not an illiterate journalist, avoid using the term" invisible "..”
            Thanks for the comment, I will consider. I am not a journalist, a pensioner. Instead of “invisibility” I will now use the expression “stealth technology”.
            If, as you described, it is so easy to calculate, or “KNOW” a bearing, then it turns out that all this Amerian trachomudia with the creation of aircraft using stealth technology simply cut the money. And it turns out according to Zadornov, "... the Americans are so stupid." Among amers, dumb ones are sometimes found, but so that at such a level and in such quantity ??? And while powdering the brains of another 15 countries that agreed to purchase this trash F-35?
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 17 November 2019 09: 30 New
              +1
              So it is: if our strategic Tu-160 bomber easily “makes a goat” for the burst Fu-35 with a delta of 300 km / h, with interceptors armed with the X-37M with a launch range of 350 km (with a radar seeker (started up, forgotten)) against Yusov’s AIM-120 with a launch range of 180 km - well, what are we talking about?!?
              And the American impudence in vparivaniye - this is from impotence :: They can offer ANYTHING better than ours (that Fushka, that Patriot, that Abrams ...).
              So after all vparivayut someone?
              Yes, to someone who is so addicted to "military-technical cooperation" with the United States that he can no longer jump from the needle of military loans without a catastrophic deterioration in the military-technical condition of his armed forces (look at the state of the Ukrainian armed forces and its billions of dollars in financial debt) and compare with the debts of Russia
              1. eklmn
                eklmn 17 November 2019 16: 52 New
                +1
                Understood, I won’t ....
    2. Monar
      Monar 17 November 2019 12: 29 New
      0
      this resonant effect occurs when an element on an aircraft, such as a tail fin
      Google translation?
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 16 November 2019 22: 04 New
    +2
    According to Kaln, the joint work of Washington and Ankara on the potential impact of the S-400 on the F-35 has already begun.

    This was to be expected - the advanced advanced air defense system to the NATO country, now the United States will remove the main characteristics of the complex (I do not think that they are very different from those that are in service with me - I mean the range of detection, the range of airborne targets), and even Turkey is the most recent attempt at a "coup" arranged by Hegemon, which has not been taught!
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 17 November 2019 09: 34 New
      +1
      Well, they’ll take it off - and what will it give them?
      Yes, only that they will find out where our devices have weaknesses and see WHAT we are going to do now to darn these holes, but they will not be able to repeat, rip off, or understand the algorithm of work, since these products are C LITEROY "E"