Military Review

From locksmith to minister. To whom, for what and how they pay

253

The author of the note led the structural divisions of enterprises and repeatedly participated in the development and implementation of the “Payment Regulations”. The following is based on actual experience.


Some key points


There was no fair (ideal) system of assessment and remuneration of labor, no, and never will be. But! But one must strive for this wisely, because this is one of the main motivations for effective work / service.

For those who doubt this position, I will say that the situation is similar with the reliability of any process or product. 100% reliability is nowhere to be found, but you need to strive for it, and do not bury it. You can make a reliable bike on 99,9999%, but it will cost like a modern tank.

Anyone evaluates their payment according to two main criteria: the price of the necessary goods / services and payment to another person (not necessarily with a similar profession / position). For example, a good locksmith of the 5 category in the central Russian city receives 25 thousand, his wife in the kindergarten - 15, they have two children - 5 and 10 years. Let him have his own garden / garden and helping grandparents. And still this family lives on the verge of ourselves knowing what. And the director of the factory where the locksmith works receives 500 thousand (which is rather modest in our times), which the locksmith does not know about, but he sees the difference in living standards tenfold. And how will this locksmith relate to work? That's right - we work from now to now, and then even the grass does not grow!

And a sad and evil joke: for the money that an ordinary worker is paid not in the capitals, he has the right to work through his sleeves.

Little arithmetic


There is the concept of arithmetic mean payment, which, according to statisticians, is about 43 thousand. How does this average turn out, everyone understands. And there’s also a median salary that says that half of the people get more than this amount, but the other half is less! And they say this median rarely and quietly, but all because it is about 28 thousand. Half in the country receives less than 28 000 rubles a month! But here, much higher salaries of the capitals are “buried”, beyond the MKAD the figures for the median payment are lower.

Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.

During this time, real wages increased: in the USA by 30%, in Poland doubled, in China four times, but in Russia there is nothing to brag about, only dollar billionaires are more and more ...

And who remembers the task flashed in 2016 from the very top to the Minister of Economics Oreshkin on economic growth of at least 4% per year?

And a sad and evil joke: the more than modest growth of the Russian economy is struggling to be supported only by a change in the heads of Rosstat.

Repetition - the mother of learning


In earlier notes, I mentioned the effectiveness of seeing in any employee, first and foremost, a production associate, but by no means an impersonal employee. It was such that the foremen in shifts sometimes earned more than me, the shop manager. And I earned more than other shop managers by completing tasks on the production, quality, cost, development of new species. And the workers did this, to which they removed the stupid restrictions on payment, began to respect them, consult with them, but began to ask more. It got to the point that the workshop asked for what was considered impossible: to allow mastering the production of expensive purchased semi-finished products without reducing the main tasks. As a result, there was even a trip by the heads of other workshops to the director on the topic of cutting off payments in our workshop, so that workers from other workshops would not be jealous or poked in the eye. Surprisingly, the director sent walkers and said he did not want to figure out again why one workshop did not provide the other three, why a strike had been declared there, and he was satisfied with the technical and economic performance of the workshop. He worked in three teams, where they cleverly tied the payment to the results and everywhere received more than expected, while the wages of workers increased.

I believe that the stepwise increase in tariffs / salaries (and salaries) within 10 — 15% in the discharge-salary grid during the USSR was economically and politically justified. With such growth, envy, if not worse, to the higher was not manifested. So, with the growth of the step in 15% and the minimum tariff in 15.000 rubles / month. the tariff of a highly skilled worker under normal working conditions will be 30.000 rubles / month, the salary of the shop manager 46.000 rubles / month, the director’s salary 70.000 rubles / month, the salary of the minister 106.000 rubles / month. This is only a tariff / salary. Then earn by productivity, quality, district coefficient. But in the amount of no more than two tariffs / salaries, otherwise it turns out idiocy. And there is no contradiction with the capitalist form of production. If you have money - invest wherever you want and have at least a trillion on stocks. According to the proposed scheme, the median payment will certainly grow to at least 35.000 rubles, and the average may fall, but you know, at whose expense it will fall? And in the absence of an increase in the average payment, prices will necessarily fall and those who produce and the country will benefit from it. And the breakthrough will be real, and not like a breakthrough of a water supply pipe.

A former colleague told the facts about Finland. They really have, as it were softer to say, hops with migrants and juvenile justice, but it is also indecent to be defiantly rich, to boast of wealth, to get rich at the expense of others. Ask where Russia is in the economy and where is Finland.

And a sad evil joke:

- Price increases - old Russian fun.
- But under Stalin, prices fell!
- And under Stalin, those who determined the prices were not amused.

And about culture


Ministry of Culture. In my opinion, the worst-case basic organization, like education, education, health, people, and the state. Around youth mat, and what is the Ministry of Culture concerned with the minister's income of eight million or more rubles a year? Perhaps by the release of highly artistic and extremely interesting films for youth on patriotism and readiness to protect their country and their people? Or maybe that for a boy and a girl your people and your friends are every fellow practitioner that will come to your aid when it will be difficult for you, and your neighbor / neighbor in the house, and an elderly woman in a tram who is already normal will the guy always give way?

Of course, it is problematic to convince the mass of young people of unity with the "majors", but at least one must try to reduce the number of selfish egoists only. In my city, only young immigrants from Central Asia give way to the elderly in transport.

Or, perhaps, the Ministry of Culture is releasing commercials about walking on lawns if a convenient asphalt path is nearby is disrespect for the country, and to consider that balconies are designed for morning clapping of bed linen is tantamount to self-recognition of mental retardation?

At one time it was fashionable among girls to walk in winter in short jackets with a bare lower back. Maybe then the Ministry of Culture and fashion designer Zaitsev became concerned about the danger to women's health and the lack of culture in this fashion? A familiar doctor, a woman, lamented that no one was interested in the fact that they made people with disabilities from such a fashion. Maybe the Ministry of Culture at least ...

Roll up your lips. The Ministry of Culture did not and does not do anything like that. Not to him. They have their own “party” to support creative talents. What a word ...

Well, so, if we pay Medinsky five times less for a start, will he screw up the Minister for Finland?

And who are you?


For the information of amateurs, ask the author questions a la Panikovsky “Who are you?” What have you done? ”I’m reporting the following.

First: this is the rubric “Opinions”. Second: I make comments, and try to make in the form of advice with interesting examples, but this is like a voice crying in the desert. I have experience in communicating with people, including with young people, therefore they usually politely listen, but I doubt the long-term effect. Everyone must deal with the problem, but this is not.

What are they paid for?


HSE professor Huseynov with nasty things about the Russian language. The representative of the EP on the availability of macaroni. “I would shoot four, the rest would calm down”: in Karelia, the head of the administration of the Olonets region, Prokopyev, spoke about citizens who complain about problems. Who are we in the elite? Or do they work out a social order to gradually accustom the people to further collapse and return Catherine’s rescript about the ban on complaining to gentlemen? Maybe we took too many specialists and false patriots as leaders? What legislators are from artists and other athletes, for example, from Valuev, to whom the best boxers of the world hit on the head? But, in any case, what does the state pay them for? If this is a bad job, then you have to pay badly. Well, if this is worse, and they work for the main "partner", then you really need to tear money from them.

And instead of the final joke, a cherry on the cake - an unexpected quantitative analysis of wealth from a production engineer.

Minister Medinsky in the month had 700.000 rubles, indicated at the beginning of the note locksmith - 25.000. It seems that Medina is richer than a locksmith in 28 times. You are not there! Wealth is what remains. The locksmith at best has a couple of thousand. And Medinsky will leave half a million without problems, which means that he is richer than a locksmith 250 times!

But for me, a locksmith is more valuable. But Medinsky is even to some extent a patriot and not at all the worst person in the cabinet ...
Author:
Photos used:
skeeze
253 comments
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  1. Titsen
    Titsen 16 November 2019 06: 08 New
    +71
    It's a shame that this is the voice of one crying in the desert ...
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 16 November 2019 09: 05 New
      +36
      Everything is written correctly in the article, but this cannot be fixed without socialists .. What kind of culture can we talk about when young people think and dream only about money .. You can keep silent about the economy in general .. achieve the economic bloc in person ..
      Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.

      We need a planned economy, the state must own natural resources, alcohol, the largest enterprises .. and most importantly, managers who receive officially huge amounts of money and even earn more “not” officially should bear responsibility ... Well, there will never be progress, without the responsibility of the head . And with us, everything is like water from a goose ..
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 16 November 2019 09: 26 New
        +22
        Quote: Svarog
        We need a planned economy, the state must own natural resources, alcohol, the largest enterprises .. and most importantly, managers who receive officially huge amounts of money and even more "earn" not officially, must be responsible ...

        To all officials, wherever they are listed - the average regional salary and not higher, this has already been written!
        Jobs for students, as in Soviet times - must work for several years. Dormitories ... And close the borders on figs! And bank transfers - only after the provision of a paper on the corresponding salary or debt receipt!
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 06 New
          +29
          Quote: Starover_Z
          To all officials, wherever they are listed - the average regional salary

          and to these cabbage rolls - how much?

          With your wishes they will cease broadcasting
          1. atalef
            atalef 18 November 2019 17: 30 New
            -4
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: Starover_Z
            To all officials, wherever they are listed - the average regional salary

            and to these cabbage rolls - how much?

            With your wishes they will cease broadcasting

            costs 3 times the rest of the gop of the company.
            laughing
        2. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 16: 42 New
          -15
          Dorms? Why not the barracks? Close the borders and around the "egoza" under high voltage, so that, God forbid, no one from the social camp escaped.
          1. atalef
            atalef 18 November 2019 17: 31 New
            -2
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            so that, God forbid, no one from the social camp escapes.

            it’s what they wouldn’t tell anyone about the most beautiful country in the world and the happiest people.
            And then damn the Luxembourgers how to rush into Balashikha or Sakhalin.
            Where to fall for all the happiness?
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 18 November 2019 18: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              And then damn the Luxembourgers how to rush into Balashikha or Sakhalin.

              Are you probably the first one to come running? wink
              Hello, Levoslav! hi
              1. atalef
                atalef 18 November 2019 20: 07 New
                -3
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Are you probably the first one to come running?

                you will not wait laughing
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Hello, Levoslav!

                and you, shalom, faithful drinks
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 18 November 2019 20: 36 New
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  you will not wait

                  I surpassed apples and grapes, I withstand on the oak - your favorite curva (curvoisier) is resting! good
                  Or not kosher with anti-Semitic plump? wassat
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. your1970
          your1970 17 November 2019 21: 42 New
          -3
          1) I, as an official and bureaucrat, strongly agree to
          Quote: Starover_Z
          average regional salary and not higher

          because I have 19 600 ........ With maximum markups, rank and length .......
          2) and this is generally a masterpiece
          Quote: Starover_Z
          Jobs for students, as in Soviet times - must work for several years.

          Do you remember HOW then worked out the distribution directed? Remind?
          The paramedic in the village at the mother-in-law drank daily- and everyone walked and turned their faces away .... everything, including the pre and party organizer .....
          For it was impossible to fire him, in general ... otherwise they themselves would be torn as a goat because of the inability to educate the team
          In the current realities it will be even more fun .......
          3)
          Quote: Starover_Z
          Hostels
          - in a completely Soviet hostel of our technical school (Moscow), the commandant completely rented three rooms in her pocket ...
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 18 November 2019 03: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: your1970
            I'm like an official


            Quote: your1970
            I have 19 600


            This is in the payment.

            And on hand ?!

            At the register?

            Total?

            19 600 ..

            Yes you go !!!!
            1. your1970
              your1970 18 November 2019 06: 18 New
              +5
              Quote: Vanek
              Quote: your1970
              I'm like an official


              Quote: your1970
              I have 19 600


              This is in the payment.

              And on hand ?!

              At the register?

              Total?

              19 600 ..

              Yes you go !!!!

              Oh !!! unbelievers showed up !!!!
              For you personally, civil servants receive exactly as much at the box office as it is written on the pay sheet. There is no construction and no sabbat; there are no gray salaries and the earned money is not distributed in envelopes

              For understanding, I’ll add - bribes, cuts, kickbacks, requisitions and other delights, the basis of your righteous anger, do not pass through the financial and economic department ....
              They are taken directly .... and they are not shown in the income statement ...

              Z. My salary for the past year- 240 000. All together, with holidays and bonuses ....

              Z.Z.Z. and you go there.
              1. garrett
                garrett 19 November 2019 09: 37 New
                -2
                my salary for the last year is 240 000. All together, with vacation pay and bonuses ....

                Well this is !!! and why such work is needed ???
                1. your1970
                  your1970 19 November 2019 22: 07 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Garrett
                  my salary for the last year is 240 000. All together, with vacation pay and bonuses ....

                  Well this is !!! and why such work is needed ???
                  -Have to go somewhere late - 50 years old, the city is small, there is no work, I really do not want to go to Moscow as a security guard .....
              2. Vanek
                Vanek 20 November 2019 03: 13 New
                0
                Quote: your1970
                They are taken directly .... and they are not shown in the income statement ...


                The official knows what he is talking about.

                All the best to you!

                hi
                1. your1970
                  your1970 20 November 2019 07: 07 New
                  0
                  And you do not cough, otherwise you can choke with bile
        5. Zweihander
          Zweihander 18 November 2019 13: 57 New
          +2
          I think the vast majority of officials would only be in favor. Being at one time a federal civil servant, I received half the average salary in the region. People have some kind of perverted notion of officials - only managers in Moscow receive a lot, most have less than even the workers from the factory specified in the article.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 18 November 2019 18: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Zweihander
            people have some kind of perverted notion of officials — only managers in Moscow get a lot, most have less than even the workers from the factory specified in the article.

            But for some reason everyone drives very cheap foreign cars, they live in expensive houses, only they are framed for relatives. wink
            1. your1970
              your1970 19 November 2019 12: 45 New
              +3
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              But for some reason all drive very cheap foreign cars, live in expensive houses, they are only framed by relatives
              - that's right all?
              Can i participate Ride an expensive foreign car? To live in an expensive house? Even if someone else’s relatives?
              Not? Strange .... but I am an official / bureaucrat / "bureaucrat" ...
              I have it all - judging by your post should be ...

              Just read the news and think about whether simple(which 95% of the total) officials to be bribed in large and especially large
              “From January to August of the 2019 year, 18,4 thousand corruption crimes were detected. 5,5 thousand crimes were committed on a large or especially large scale. Damage was compensated in the amount of 27 billion rubles.
              As noted, in particular, 1 thousand officials were prosecuted. "
              - and yes, this is the answer to the topic of whether we are fighting corruption or not ....
              Saying that all bribe-taking officials is a very convenient stamp ... of a category - "all ensigns are thieves", "all generals are oaks" and so on ...
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 19 November 2019 18: 53 New
                +2
                Quote: your1970
                Is that all right?
                I don’t know where you live, and at what level you work as an official, but officials in living in a sickening Togliatti are not bad. In the town of Mezhdurechensk, the head doesn’t do a damn thing, but you won’t get rid of him from his place.
                Quote: your1970
                Damage reimbursed in the amount of 27 billion rubles.

                Yes, yes, I heard about this law. Very comfortable, got caught - reimbursed. Not caught - profit.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 19 November 2019 22: 03 New
                  0
                  1)
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: your1970
                  Is that all right?

                  Yes, yes, I heard about this law. Very comfortable, got caught - reimbursed. Not caught - profit.

                  in China - a refund based on the results of the so-called work "Heavenly Network" amounted to less .....1 (!!!!!!!!!)% ...... belay belay .
                  "But they shoot!" © in my opinion yours
                  Of the identified embezzlements of the order of 100 billion, we returned 27 ...

                  2)
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  In the town of Mezhdurechensk, the head doesn’t do a damn thing, but you won’t get rid of him from his place.

                  The head of the city settlement Mezhdurechensk - Batyaeva Olga Valentinovna tel: 8 (8464) -928-161-this?
                  "Batyaeva Olga Valentinovna Head of the urban settlement Mezhdurechensk of the municipal district of Syzransky, Samara region
                  Income 491305,07 for 2018g.
                  1) Apartment. Common shared ownership. Share ½
                  2) garage 52,8 "
                  http://syzrayon.ru/poseleniya/mezhdurechensk/deyatelnost.html
                  Well, in principle, do not live in poverty for the salary, but you don’t especially take it easy

                  3) "Criminal Code Article 290. Receiving a bribe
                  Notes. 1. A significant amount of a bribe in this article, Articles 291 and 291.1 of this Code shall be recognized as the amount of money, the value of securities, other property, property services, other property rights in excess of twenty five thousand rubles, a large bribe - in excess of one hundred and fifty thousand rubles; a particularly large bribe - in excess of one million rubles."

                  Thus, a third of the identified corrupt officials (5,5 thousand) are people who did not take less than 150 000 at a time ....
                  this level, to put it mildly, is not a village with a population of 3254 people and not my city with a population of 15 000 ...
                  this is the level of leaders / their deputies / beginning departments of the oblast level
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 19 November 2019 22: 30 New
                    +2
                    Quote: your1970
                    Well, in principle, do not live in poverty for the salary, but you don’t especially take it easy
                    Are you seriously? Which of them now lives on s / n?
                    Quote: your1970
                    "But they shoot!" © in my opinion
                    Of the identified embezzlements of the order of 100 billion, we returned 27 ...

                    The keyword is "FROM identified." And they reveal those who have not shared, or have gone too far in the end. And until they shoot, everything will continue, there will be both Zakharchenka and Chekalin with the Arashukovs. And Sechin with apartments, which he and his whole life with his NOT SMALL s / n will not buy.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 19 November 2019 23: 31 New
                      0
                      1)
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Are you seriously? Which of them now lives on s \ n?
                      for example ... and at least 95% of civil servants
                      2)
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      And until they shoot, everything will continue, there will be both Zakharchenka and Chekalin with the Arashukovs.

                      in China shoot and? Return of money to the treasury of China practically 0....
                      moreover, shoot yourself notice more than 20 years .... more 100 000 shot ...
                      Does it help? Yeah, right now .... for tomorrow there is already someone to shoot ....
                      Remember our own experience - they introduced the decree "7 / 8" and the number of train wrecks fell by 20 times in 5 years. Did it help? Yes !!
                      But in China - it does not help ....
                      1. region58
                        region58 22 November 2019 11: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        for example ... and at least 95% of civil servants

                        I recalled a plot on TV, in my "Man and the Law", and so: they suggested swindlers to some kind of pretzel to buy the place of head of the administration of some settlement (I didn’t remember exactly anymore, I thought about the Moscow region), he laid out a tidy sum in the hope "beat off" much more. In general, the matter came to the police ... When the correspondent arrived in this settlement and talked about this case with the real head of the administration, he only shook his head dreamily and sentenced that they could not even dream of such money that the applicant put in his place, and if they had enough of them to raise all the villages in the okrug ... Actually, I wanted to say that the situations are different, and the official is different.
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 16 November 2019 09: 50 New
        +35

        This photo has spread all over the world, but it looks ugly. Rockefeller in honor of his birthday decided to dress the role of a patron. And what came of it. An incredibly wealthy citizen, with all his appearance he shows that he decided to make the child happy, but could not take more than 5 cents from himself.

        In principle, our officials think in the same categories, believing that the people may well live on macaroni.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 10: 43 New
          -23
          Nothing that John Rockefeller spent hundreds of millions of dollars on charity, medicine, education? What was he one of the largest philanthropists of his time?
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 16 November 2019 10: 51 New
            +24
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            Nothing that John Rockefeller spent hundreds of millions of dollars on charity, medicine, education?

            Nevertheless, this photograph says a lot about him. At what were outraged by this the Americans themselves. The fact that the rich have to be philanthropists is often a necessary measure, which is in no way connected with their altruism.
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            What was he one of the largest philanthropists of his time?
            I do not know how true this is, but the billionaire certainly did not become poorer from this. Generosity is determined not by how much he gave, but how much is left after that.
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 10: 58 New
              -6
              5 cents is what father gave little Rockefeller, by the way - a small trader. This is the money with which John began to spin, his symbolic starting capital.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 16 November 2019 11: 09 New
                +23
                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                5 cents is what father gave little Rockefeller ... a symbolic start-up capital.

                Quote: Stas157
                At what the Americans themselves were indignant.

                It is a pity that the Americans do not have our Zaputinians. Those would quickly explain how the Americans are wrong! That the rich billionaires are not bloodsuckers on the body of the people, but the most hard-working people and are entirely philanthropists. The salt of the earth in one word.
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 11: 24 New
                  -15
                  John Rockefeller, unlike some others, the classic self made man is a man who has achieved everything, just by his own labor. Not everyone can become a wealthy person in the world from a simple accountant. Without the help of mom’s dad. Envy is superfluous.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 16 November 2019 11: 30 New
                    +27
                    And what about his first million? He said that he was ready to talk about any of his million, except for the first ... :)
                  2. New Year day
                    New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 09 New
                    +26
                    Quote: AU Ivanov.
                    ... a man who has achieved everything, just by his labor.

                    kind examples from our daily life about our "loved ones"
                    Quote: AU Ivanov.
                    Envy is superfluous.

                    envy of an American or ours? As I believe, our people do not have envy, but hatred. Agree, these are different feelings.
                    1. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 13: 40 New
                      +8
                      It is impossible to compare them with ours (Rockefeller, Ford). Our oligarchs, with rare exceptions, came to everything ready or influential friends helped them. And they created their industrial empires themselves, from scratch, with their own mind, without outside help. For which they deserve respect.
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 49 New
                        +5
                        Totally agree with you
                      2. Karen
                        Karen 16 November 2019 19: 04 New
                        +6
                        Quote: AU Ivanov.
                        It is impossible to compare them with ours (Rockefeller, Ford)

                        If there was a man - there is an article ... gee-gee-gee
                        Dear, you probably do not know what the Rockefeller empire did in the early 80s to obtain an honest, speculative income ...
                        They thought that if they were satisfied with the shortage of silver used in the photo industry, then because of the price hike for it, they could weld a fabulous gesheft ... And they began to buy all the silver available in the country, fortunately, they had enough money for that ... Well according to the plans of this family, the planned shortage of silver turned out, and the expected surge in price ... The Americans are in shock, the family is in euphoria ... But then Uncle Sam came into play: deliveries to the free market of silver from strategic US reserves were organized. .. Family losses in finances were estimated at a tidy sum ...
                      3. Russian jacket
                        Russian jacket 17 November 2019 16: 39 New
                        +2
                        Karen, you can’t reset the link to this .... I want to get acquainted and, if true, poke the nose of my opponents. hi
                      4. Karen
                        Karen 17 November 2019 16: 47 New
                        +3
                        Dear, I subtracted all this then in our press ... And the Rockefeller losses figures were given ... not up to 10bn, not up to 30bn. dollars ...
                        _____
                        As my friends joke: "why are you putting so much trash from information into your head?" :)
                      5. Russian jacket
                        Russian jacket 18 November 2019 06: 15 New
                        +1
                        Thank you About trash, I'm the same hi
                2. Den717
                  Den717 16 November 2019 20: 41 New
                  +10
                  Quote: AU Ivanov.
                  For which they deserve respect.

                  Especially for wars for resources in different countries and continents. Just think, half a million Iraqi citizens were killed in the fight for oil? Obviously, they can. And you can respect them for this too ... I am silent about Libya, and even about Africa, which even in the 21st century cannot get out of the Middle Ages, thanks to these creators of industrial empires, even more so. Most importantly, they are not Russian. These Russian capitalists are completely scum and clumsy. And there, yes. The lights of democracy and the pushers of progress .... Ugh ... You and Sylvstr still fall to your knees and smash your forehead of reverence for American business. You don’t know those, that these ...
                3. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 21: 03 New
                  -9
                  Russian business, at one time, was not much inferior to American. Ryabushinsky, Morozov, Second. Taken and divided.
                4. Den717
                  Den717 16 November 2019 21: 40 New
                  +6
                  Quote: AU Ivanov.
                  Russian business, at one time, was not much inferior to American.

                  The principles and methods of capital accumulation are approximately the same throughout the world, adjusted for mental characteristics. Nevertheless, it is precisely the American capitalists that you respect as opposed to the Russians, who obviously did not deserve this in your eyes. A very primitive view that does not take into account the historical process, the specifics of the economic characteristics of states.
                5. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 22: 38 New
                  -2
                  I respect any people, both Russian and American and Japanese, who have achieved success with their mind and energy.
        2. sniperino
          sniperino 16 November 2019 14: 48 New
          -8
          Quote: Silvestr
          about our "loved ones"
          Are you talking about Hodor? Delays payment?
        3. region58
          region58 22 November 2019 11: 51 New
          0
          Quote: Silvestr
          As I believe, our people do not have envy, but hatred. Agree, these are different feelings.

          Alas, if you dig a little deeper, then very many people are just dissatisfied with the fact that “they are stealing” and they don’t give us / there’s nothing to steal from us / they will put us right away / etc. etc., that is, by that. that they steal without them. yes
    2. tracer
      tracer 16 November 2019 16: 08 New
      +4
      It’s on people like you that this myth of “there overseas having three cents bam and a million will be held” holds on to. Well, well ... I advise you in your dogma to clean up a couple of casinos with a win.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 20: 50 New
        -7
        Quote: tracer
        Here on people like you and ...

        Stasik is a local "propagandist." If you do not feed him - he will die himself .. I hope. Help him - God forbid laughing
        1. tracer
          tracer 16 November 2019 23: 33 New
          0
          And yes, you are right. Moreover, he has a mania of invaluable greatness. Like, "I would also be Brin or Zuckerburb if I lived there." I would tell him whoever he was here .. Because I know perfectly well who these balabol with aplomb are becoming. And how life treats them. As one of my friends (Belarus) so "drowned" for the rights of black oppressed by white fascists in America. So these same ones almost threw him from the Golden Gate bridge, after having robbed of course, in San Francisco, when that guy came out of a neighboring bar. So the poor fellow was afraid that he probably still sleeps with a gun under his pillow (Smith & Weson 629 .44 magnum). Now, for a long time, I am provided with the theme for his trolling. Something similar awaits such balabolov who do not know anything about real life here.
      2. your1970
        your1970 17 November 2019 21: 45 New
        0
        Quote: tracer
        It’s on people like you that this myth of “there overseas having three cents bam and a million will be held” holds on to. Oh well...

        Trump several times went broke completely
        1. tracer
          tracer 18 November 2019 02: 52 New
          +2
          When a Jew does not have money, this does not mean that they do not. They are there but not for you ...
    3. seacap
      seacap 17 November 2019 12: 43 New
      +5
      like Chubais and Kudrin to them with the family Nabiulina and her page Gref there too, to fuse with them, one could even chip into the whole world, if only they would take
  2. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 12: 51 New
    +20
    There is not a single honestly acquired capital and fortune ..... and only the role of the Rockefellers and the like in unleashing world wars and crises ... how many don’t sacrifice and you don’t build chapels you won’t wash away your sins
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 13: 42 New
      -8
      Bryn and Zuckerberg also built their billions "dishonest" way?
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 13: 54 New
        +10
        I have no idea who Brin is, and with a second comrade a very muddy story ... very muddy
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 15: 41 New
          +1
          Sergey Brin is the founder of Google. Billionaire.
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 15: 45 New
            +3
            Well, God forbid his health ... and if he has everything with taxes, then I’ll take off my hat
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 15: 54 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrey VOV
            then take off my hat

            Wales promised to eat a hat to Stalin. never did ...
          3. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 16: 02 New
            +3
            What a scoundrel ..... well, I’m figuratively hat. But now I’ll take off my helmet
          4. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 16: 07 New
            +3
            Quote: Andrey VOV
            What a scoundrel .....

            It is also ... As Stalin told him about the five-year plan, he became fucked up. It is fantastic!
          5. Karen
            Karen 17 November 2019 16: 56 New
            0
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: Andrey VOV
            What a scoundrel .....

            It is also ... As Stalin told him about the five-year plan, he became fucked up. It is fantastic!

            There, many were fucked up by such numbers ... In the late 70s, an American communist, a programmer by profession, moved to Yerevan ... He left there, he said, precisely from the shock associated with the views of our five-year plans ... But , seeing firsthand what is happening here in the Union - he waved back to the damned capitalists. :)
  • Vanek
    Vanek 18 November 2019 04: 01 New
    +4
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    Bryn and Zuckerberg also built their billions "dishonest" way?


    DO NOT honestly EAR BILLIONS !!!

    This is not 10, 20 thousand, and not even 100 and not 200 thousand.

    BILLION!!!

    Here, in any case, there will be a misunderstanding with the laws.

    ANYWAY!

    Are all taxes paid with 1?

    ... well, we thought so.

    hi
  • sniperino
    sniperino 16 November 2019 14: 31 New
    -2
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    5 cents is what father gave little Rockefeller
    Stas may be a visionary. How many I did not peer into the picture, I could not see how, with what, in what place Rockefeller
    with all his appearance shows that he decided to make the child happy
    request Although the meaning is a symbolic action - the wish of the child to achieve wealth through his work. Given that the birthday was not with the child, but with Rockefeller, he definitely had the right to wish all the children the same, even without 5 cents. What if the child spun? Not even all children can give any chance to this or that one.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 16 November 2019 16: 56 New
      +11
      Quote: sniperino
      Stas may be a visionary. I did not peer much

      This picture of thousands of people appreciated! What are they all visionaries at once? Maybe you just don’t know how to read gestures and poses. And adequately assess the situation. You look how the old man bent, leaning heavily on a stick. How closely he looks, peering into the face of the child, trying to catch approval. And all this happens with a curious crowd observing this action ... Putin in such situations did not trifle 5 rubles, but immediately gave the clock with his hand! Watch at the price of a nice apartment.

      Can you imagine the situation for Putin, or an oligarch, to distribute an iron trifle?
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 16 November 2019 17: 43 New
        -7
        Quote: Stas157
        Maybe you just don’t know how to read gestures and poses. And adequately assess the situation.
        Since you - I definitely don’t know how.
        You look how the old man bent, leaning heavily on a stick.
        Did he have to stand straight and keep the coin at the scrotum level?
        How closely he looks, peering into the face of the child, trying to catch approval.
        Should I have looked in the direction of the Zionist homies and angrily grimaced? You will not please art critics ...
        Putin in such situations ...
        What does Putin have to do with it? I haven’t seen anything like it. If someone gives something to someone, this is not necessarily a similar situation.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 16 November 2019 17: 56 New
          +8
          Quote: sniperino
          You you will not please art critics.

          Please art critics?)) No, I'm not an art critic. Please me and do not try. I do not like pleasers!
          Quote: sniperino
          What does Putin have to do with it? I have not seen such.

          And you google, fill in the gap. And then you will find out for yourself that he had a lot of similar cases.
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 16 November 2019 18: 07 New
            -5
            Quote: Stas157
            And you google, fill in the gap.
            What I wish you: if "google" is not an adverb or an introductory word, then the dash is not needed.
          2. nikon7717
            nikon7717 17 November 2019 12: 03 New
            +3
            . Quote: Svarog
            Everything is written correctly in the article, but this cannot be fixed without socialists .. What kind of culture can we talk about when young people think and dream only about money .. You can keep silent about the economy in general .. achieve the economic bloc in person ..
            Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.

            We need a planned economy, the state must own natural resources ..


            Svarog! Everything is very relative here. Planning for 5-10 years is actively used today in all TNCs, our monsters such as Gazprom are in fact analogues of USSR ministries. They use only more advanced but also bureaucratic methods of planning. Everything is under centralization. In the west as well.
            Now about pay. In all articles, the authors persistently, even stupidly, adhere to the payment model of the late USSR, when most workers received more than an engineer. You understand that this is not logical, more skilled labor should be paid higher, but demand and responsibility are higher.
            Under Stalin, an engineer received much more work, especially scientists with a degree, but they were paid for the result. Khrushchev canceled this system. Japan applied the payment system of Stalin and we saw a Japanese miracle.
            This system must be returned. Why reinvent the wheel?
  • vadimtt
    vadimtt 18 November 2019 14: 08 New
    +1
    Dite at age 75 sold a coin at auction for $ 50 million wassat

    PS: Assumption
  • Victorio
    Victorio 17 November 2019 17: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    5 cents is what father gave little Rockefeller, by the way - a small trader. This is the money with which John began to spin, his symbolic starting capital.

    ====
    Do you really still think that big money can be earned by honest labor ?! There are exceptions, but they are scanty. even giving half of his property to charity, this character will not be able to pray for parts of his sins
  • frog
    frog 17 November 2019 21: 11 New
    +2
    He invested all the money he earned in a porcelain piggy bank, and already at the age of 13 he lent a familiar farmer $ 50 at the rate of 7,5% per annum.
  • atalef
    atalef 18 November 2019 17: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Stas157
    Nevertheless, this photograph says a lot about him.

  • Den717
    Den717 16 November 2019 20: 32 New
    +8
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    Nothing that John Rockefeller spent hundreds of millions of dollars on charity, medicine, education?

    Those who spend hundreds of millions on charity, before that, will rob everyone whom hundreds of billions are possible. Philanthropy begins when so much is stolen / stolen that there is not enough imagination to enjoy it. This "philanthropist" is one of the main financiers of the National Socialist Party of Germany during its rise.
  • Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 20: 53 New
    -9
    Quote: Stas157
    our officials think in the same categories, believing that the people may well live on pasta

    You will live without them, purely on bitcoins ... a troll)))

    And you need “people” exactly to justify your flood somehow .. stasik, I am also “people” ... let's talk? wink
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 16 November 2019 22: 37 New
    +1
    Rockefeller in honor of his birthday decided to dress the role of a patron. And what came of it. An incredibly wealthy citizen, with all his appearance he shows that he decided to make the child happy, but could not take more than 5 cents from himself.

    Um ... According to the photograph, it seems that this is the opposite, -girl, gives the old man (Rockefeller) "alms" -5 cents ....
    1. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 17 November 2019 16: 40 New
      +2
      They made fun .... good
  • Stas157
    Stas157 16 November 2019 10: 28 New
    +17
    Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.
    During this time, real wages increased: in the USA by 30%, in Poland doubled, in China four times, and in Russia has nothing to brag about

    Russia over the same ten years added less than 10% of GDP (about 5%). And the increase in the well-being of the people is even negative. The growth of well-being of Russians, if you look at the breakdown by group, is uneven. The rich always get rich, even in spite of crises. The middle, rather narrow layer remains approximately at its own. But the poor, get poorer even more. This applies to those who have a median of 30 thousand. And there are half of the population!

    This is the real outcome of the current rulers and knees. They always tell us about some jerks and breakthroughs, they promise mountains - in fact, boast of nothing.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 16 November 2019 10: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: Stas157
      This is the real outcome of the current rulers and knees. They always tell us about some jerks and breakthroughs, they promise mountains - in fact, there’s nothing to brag about.

      There is no time for buildup .. for twenty years the same slogans and nothing has changed .. both robbed and robbed ..
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 16 November 2019 15: 38 New
        -4
        Quote: Svarog
        There is no time for buildup.
        Let’s definitely not disappear with Galkin: he will accept Don Don. Regularly. Just behave yourself.
      2. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek 20 November 2019 04: 16 New
        0
        belay belay belay the most needy, as always, "cares" for the most needy !!! recourse wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing to know the real matsostoyanie "especially suffering" in the comments on in !!! lol lol lol lol
  • Chit
    Chit 16 November 2019 10: 44 New
    -12
    So it all seemed to be ...
    And the planned economy was in the state ...
    And the alcohol belonged to the state ...
    And the largest enterprises ...
    And managers were responsible how tough that it sometimes ended with a bullet in the back of the head ...
    And the state owned natural resources ...
    And where is this state now?
    Oh yes ... A bunch of traitors collapsed. I forget everything, sorry.
    1. vitmih
      vitmih 16 November 2019 11: 10 New
      -3
      A bunch of traitors collapsed.


      and another group Cinema)
      I am still perplexed that our Soviet leaders didn’t adopt such a tactic - to send traitors to the United States and ruin it with cedrenefene.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 12: 52 New
        +1
        And where does the group "Cinema"?
        1. vadimtt
          vadimtt 18 November 2019 14: 10 New
          +1
          They probably demanded Change too loud!

          PS: But it is not completely clear what kind of changes were discussed bully
      2. Manas manas
        Manas manas 16 November 2019 14: 39 New
        +3
        Why break up? Maybe it was worth it instead to establish the lives of their citizens!
  • WIKI
    WIKI 16 November 2019 13: 53 New
    +7
    Quote: Svarog
    What kind of culture can we talk about when young people think and dream only about money ..

    Alexander (My address). I have experience in communicating with people, including young people, therefore they usually politely listen, but I doubt the long-term effect.

    The whole problem is that young people have learned to "listen with their eyes" (the shortest way to perceive information). Look at what rubbish is trending on YouTube. Viewing it does not imply the participation of gray matter in the analysis of what it has seen. It is a consumption society, however.
    1. tatarin1972
      tatarin1972 16 November 2019 21: 44 New
      +3
      Remember yourself in your youth. Wisdom comes over the years with experience. They only say that one needs to learn from the mistakes of others, but in life everyone learns from their own.
  • Wolverine
    Wolverine 17 November 2019 10: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Svarog
    Everything is written correctly in the article, but this cannot be fixed without socialists .. What kind of culture can we talk about when young people think and dream only about money .. You can keep silent about the economy in general .. achieve the economic bloc in person ..
    Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.

    We need a planned economy, the state must own natural resources, alcohol, the largest enterprises .. and most importantly, managers who receive officially huge amounts of money and even earn more “not” officially should bear responsibility ... Well, there will never be progress, without the responsibility of the head . And with us, everything is like water from a goose ..


    That's right, remove the pirate flag, raise red with a sickle and a hammer - a course towards socialism. This is not irony, it is the truth of life. hi
  • astepanov
    astepanov 19 November 2019 17: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Svarog
    the state should own natural resources, alcohol

    Alcohol? Hands off the last joy!
    Let him have his own garden / garden and helping grandparents.
    Yeah. Grandparents who do not live on a miserable pension are forced to help. Is this not an indicator of social well-being?
    Quote: Svarog
    and most importantly, managers who receive officially huge amounts of money and even more “earn” not officially, should be held accountable ...

    And they are responsible. Each manager is ready to say: "I am responsible for something." In fact, there is a colossal substitution of concepts: instead of "entrusted to me", the term "answer" is used. According to the old norms of the Russian language, the word "answer" demanded a instrumental case: "I answer (with what?) With my head, freedom, property." So they do not answer with anything - unless, when the pens are launched too deep into the common fund, they are planted. Like, say, Zakharchenko. And it’s time to bring both the norms of the Russian language and the criminal code into line: do you answer? Brush your forehead with brilliant green.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 16 November 2019 06: 10 New
    +24
    "If they think they pay me a salary, let them think that I work" ...
    Another Soviet joke.
    The correct article. I myself often observe the same picture. And, making money on VO "minus, I try to prove to some authors of articles that their essays that everything is not so bad with us in reconciling production are slightly far from the truth.
    1. GKS 2111
      GKS 2111 16 November 2019 06: 21 New
      +22
      As they pay me, so I work for them. laughing There is no desire to go to work — the whole brain will be taken out for a penny a day ... Don’t count it as “Yaroslavna’s crying” —the gasman’s job who comes to lubricate your cranes ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 16 November 2019 07: 57 New
        +9
        Absolutely right.
        When there were workdays on the Soviet collective farms, the collective farmers were extremely interested in increasing the productivity of rural labor — the more you work out, the more you will get per workday. People tried their best, their well-being grew, an abundance of products began. And this is less than 10 years after the Second World War! Khrushchev came, canceled the workday, laid a beggarly salary, productivity fell sharply - work, do not work, you will get the same way. The rural population began to drunk, a shortage of products arose in the country, which led to the uprising in Novocherkassk. Lesson? No!
        Now, in conditions of unemployment, the employer has no problem. The employee has it - no matter how high your qualifications are, do not expect a serious increase in salaries. For the employer is going through a period of initial accumulation of capital and, preferring to burst from greed, will not pay more than what you get, and even throw it, because you are not sure about your future, and tomorrow, your employee, he doesn’t give a damn.
        Maybe in offices, according to the old tradition, employees pretend that they work. But I see how sellers and movers are straining in stores. Nobody shakes off, because the states halved, raising their salaries only a little. And even leaving it the same. And, according to conversations, payment delays began.
        Billing, say? Nude ...
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 08: 06 New
          +13
          Quote: depressant
          Khrushchev came, canceled the workday, laid a beggarly salary, productivity fell sharply - work, do not work, you will get the same way. The rural population began to drunk, a shortage of products arose in the country, which led to the uprising in Novocherkassk.

          Not certainly in that way. This darned condom destroyed artels, and brought down the ruble more than twice.
        2. Tomich3
          Tomich3 16 November 2019 09: 24 New
          -3
          Don't talk nonsense. Workday is a measure of assessment and a form of accounting for the quantity and quality of labor on collective farms in the period from 1930 to 1966. No wages were paid to members of collective farms. All income after fulfilling obligations to the state (obligatory deliveries and making an in-kind payment for services of machine and tractor stations) went to the collective farm. Each collective farmer received for his work a share of the collective farm income corresponding to the workdays he worked out. The introduction of the workday was supposed to eliminate the equalization in the distribution of income. In fact, such a change did not occur in most collective farms. Thus, improper rationing and incorrect pricing of individual work on a number of collective farms led collective farmers directly involved in production (field cultivation, livestock breeding) to produce significantly fewer workdays than collective farmers engaged in administrative, managerial, economic and auxiliary work. In addition, there was a practice of arbitrary accrual of workdays without taking into account the quality of work, as well as the distribution of income “by feeders”. In conditions of agricultural production, the use of workdays was convenient because it allowed to accrue wages without taking into account the final result, which in this industry can be obtained much later than the work itself was carried out. The workday did not take into account the final results, the number of crew members or workdays accrued to the members did not depend on the crop or profitability of livestock production, however, after receiving the final product and allocating that part of it that should go to pay for labor, distribution of the natural product and / or received from its sale of money in proportion to the accrued workdays. The average distribution of grain to collective farmers by workdays in the USSR was
          in 1940 - 1,6 kg
          in 1943 - 0,7 kg
          in 1944 - 0,8 kg.
          During the first years of the restoration of the national economy, including in connection with the drought and the general decline in productivity, as well as the increased state demand for grain, the output of grain and legumes for workdays on collective farms decreased even more, which led to starvation in the winter of 1946/47 .
          1. nikon7717
            nikon7717 16 November 2019 10: 52 New
            +2
            By the way, maybe it’s not bad. Created a minimum wage. However, today this level of remuneration does not provide the possibility of living above the poverty line. It is necessary to add an increase to the output above the poverty line. And often do not pay because of taxes, the FSS, even if this part is not paid for several years 7 for example, at a reduced rate, in 5% and that’s all. But there is the possibility of legalization of income.
            Now we need to consider the necessary human needs in terms of costs, with the possibility of accumulation, inflation, lack of experience, manages the funds.
        3. Crane
          Crane 16 November 2019 18: 32 New
          -2
          depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova) Today, 07:57

          Absolutely right.
          When there were workdays on the Soviet collective farms, collective farmers were extremely interested in increasing the productivity of rural labor — the more you work out, the more you will get per workday.
          ---------------------------
          They passed in the 90s. Do you yourself want to get a salary with products?. Give a normal salary, and the collective farmer will buy what he needs. And then the grains and potatoes will be sprinkled according to the results of the year — walk the flaw.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 23: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Crane
            And then the grains with potatoes will be sprinkled at the end of the year-walk flaw.

            This is where and when it happened?
        4. saigon
          saigon 17 November 2019 16: 32 New
          +1
          Well, and the employer oh what problems with the workers, I'm not talking about managers and loaders, there’s a dashing phrase for production (such a real production) - there are a lot of twists and turns, it just doesn’t roll from the word at all.
          No, of course you can dial, only the result is far from at least average, so not everything looks like that.
          Moreover, an experienced employee to hell does not need to pass on the experience to the young - for no reason need competitors.
          In a word vicious circle.
      2. Evil echo
        Evil echo 16 November 2019 09: 48 New
        +3
        . “What should a specialist do for a salary of 15 thousand rubles? Nothing. And even a little harm”

        Greetings to a colleague.
    2. sniperino
      sniperino 16 November 2019 16: 09 New
      -7
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And, making money on VO "minus, I try to prove to some authors of articles that their essays that everything is not so bad with us in reconciling production are slightly far from the truth.
      The share of fighters for people's happiness is heavy, there is enough minus ... Grateful people return you 20 plus versus 2 minuses from the gendarmes of the bloody regime on September 16.09 .... You are comforted by the essays that everything is not so bad in reconciliation production "at VO are very rare
  • Sars
    Sars 16 November 2019 06: 17 New
    +3
    It seems that the red comrades at all posts are preparing Russia for the next perestroika.
    1. depressant
      depressant 16 November 2019 08: 08 New
      +4
      Perestroika, say? And you read what everyone writes economists. In the current political and economic conditions, Russia will not survive another perestroika in Chubais.
      1. DEDPIHTO
        DEDPIHTO 16 November 2019 09: 30 New
        +5
        Quote: depressant
        Perestroika, say? And you read what everyone writes economists. In the current political and economic conditions, Russia will not survive another perestroika in Chubais.

        Shaw, you’re so worried, the state of the Russian Federation was blinded by these, “restructors” on lies and greed, so it’s quite natural that they themselves will be killed, burned in a cleansing fire .... But Russia has always been, is and will be-just the name and structure of the state on its territory will be different. hi
      2. Mcar
        Mcar 16 November 2019 09: 30 New
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        Perestroika, say? And you read what everyone writes economists. In the current political and economic conditions, Russia will not survive another perestroika in Chubais.

        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, because even without any restructuring of the Russian Federation, the border of the next century will not survive (at least within its current borders). IF EVERYTHING WILL GO AS GOES.

        And this is not even a theorem, it is an axiom. This is also true, as is the case with the Titanic. We got a hole in the beginning of the 90s, so consider it - the Titanic had an hour or two, and the Russian Federation ... Being Cassandra is an ungrateful matter, therefore, without forecasts.

        The only chance for Russia not to fall apart, not to perish, not to become neonibelungs - it will just be rebuilt. But not according to Chubaisyat patterns, but according to scientific ones. To say the Marxist. Those. row in the direction of progress, in the direction of communism. Through socialism, naturally. If not, we all live in vain.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 09: 43 New
          -12
          Quote: McAr
          it’s not even a theorem, it’s an axiom

          For those to whom ML philosophy has withered their minds, apart from the axioms, there is nothing left for the campaign.
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 16 November 2019 09: 50 New
            +10
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            ML philosophy

            Karl Marx merely described the nature of capitalism. As Darwin described the nature of evolution (and nowhere, by the way, did he claim that man descended from a monkey).

            Are you against science, against progress? Well, throw away your gadget from which you shit.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 10: 04 New
              -9
              Quote: McAr
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              ML philosophy

              Karl Marx merely described the nature of capitalism. Like Darwin ...

              You didn’t make out the letter “L” request laughing

              Quote: McAr
              Are you against science, against progress?

              No. I am against the fact that some strange things, from my point of view, are being announced as "science and progress." No more.

              Quote: McAr
              throw your gadget off

              Well, how many people, so many points of view. As for me, it’s you who are crap here.

              Yes ... when I need your advice, I’ll tell you about it. I don't need him yet no
              1. Mcar
                Mcar 16 November 2019 10: 07 New
                +6
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                strange from my point of view

                So after all, the points of view are strange. And there are (swear word). What is no reason to reflect (if there is anything) on ​​your point of view?
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 10: 25 New
                  -7
                  Quote: McAr
                  What is no reason to reflect (if there is anything) on ​​your point of view?

                  So think about it. Over his yes

                  And try not to be rude. I do not like request
                  1. Mcar
                    Mcar 16 November 2019 10: 33 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Quote: McAr
                    What is no reason to reflect (if there is anything) on ​​your point of view?

                    So think about it. Over his yes

                    Only sim and doing.

                    You, according to your speeches, like that Russia disappears - both by people, and by conquests, and by the future. But I don’t like it. One thing is upsetting - there are many more like you.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 10: 48 New
                      -7
                      Quote: McAr
                      Russia is disappearing ...

                      ... exclusively in your thoughts, buddy. I have a completely different impression and, consequently, my thoughts too.

                      Quote: McAr
                      I don’t like it.

                      The problem, I repeat, is in you. In your head, to be more precise. Exceptionally there.

                      Quote: McAr
                      Upset one - there are still a lot of people like you

                      But the number of people like you does not upset me.

                      This is not Russia disappearing, buddy ... it's you disappearing yes
                      1. Mcar
                        Mcar 16 November 2019 11: 02 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        buddy

                        You do not outwit me with the appeal "friend." I am a peace-loving person, not memorable to evil, but a class intuition, words to God, has developed. You are from the opposite class. So the enemy. So treat better "enemy" - more honestly.

                        And the point is not that you have a negative opinion about Marxist-Leninist theory. The fact is that the current pike status quo is a joy to you and you do not want another. That's why you want to "continue the banquet," and anyone who is dissatisfied with "convict" in a withered brain.

                        If you have at least something left of a person, first try to sympathize with the destitute, of which there are tens of millions of people in the Russian Federation only, and then change your speech in favor of those who feed you.
                      2. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 11: 11 New
                        -8
                        Quote: McAr
                        If you have at least something left of a person

                        Wide approach ... in our opinion, in a proletarian way good laughing

                        Quote: McAr
                        try to sympathize with the destitute for a start

                        And what's the point? Well, what's the point? To help anyone I can - I help. And sympathize is with the "girls on the forum" (c).

                        Quote: McAr
                        and then change your speech in favor of those who feed you

                        I feed - I myself. Buddy And I’m completely equal - whether to work here, or where-a thread on the other side of the planet. I can do that.

                        But you are not. Therefore, breed Dima-Gogia here ... well, also an occupation request

                        Makar, go through the forest already. Tired, really.
                      3. Mcar
                        Mcar 16 November 2019 11: 23 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Feed me - I myself

                        Hut from the edge - I don’t know anything. How progressive! Here it’s straight fresh to the impossibility!

                        And you are doing demagogy here and now. Well, of course, if you know the meaning of this word.

                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        And what's the point? Well, what's the point?

                        What's the use of it? Empathy is one of what distinguishes a person from an animal. Make sure you are different from the animal? Little what? Or do you care animal you or a person?

                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Makar, go through the forest already. Tired, really.

                        Well, so apologize for the "ML-philosophy of brains eaten up" and go, at least in the forest, at least sideways.

                        In the end, not me, but you asked what is wrong with your gray matter.
                      4. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 11: 28 New
                        -7
                        Quote: McAr
                        Empathy is one of what distinguishes a person from an animal

                        Lies. Animals are very able to sympathize. And empathize.

                        You, my friend, studied life exclusively from books, a campaign wink

                        Quote: McAr
                        Empathy is one of what distinguishes a person from an animal. Make sure you are different from the animal? Little what? Or do you care animal you or a person?

                        Here this is exactly what - demagogy yes

                        Quote: McAr
                        apologize for "ML-philosophy of brains ate"

                        I apologize. There was nothing to eat. Originally laughing

                        Okay, arivederchi. Makar.
                      5. Mcar
                        Mcar 16 November 2019 11: 32 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Lies. Animals are very able to sympathize. And empathize.

                        Gotcha! Crucian on Kukan! laughing

                        So, admit that worse than an animal? Well, who are you in this case, even if you are not capable of animal feelings? tongue
                      6. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 12: 49 New
                        -3
                        Quote: McAr
                        So, admit that worse than an animal?

                        Animals, my friend, there are different. And I, a dog well beaten by life, know how to understand them very well.

                        But you are not. Buddy wink

                        My dog ​​will give such "people" like you a hundred points a handicap ... and he will win without a bazaar yes

                        Quote: McAr
                        Crucian on Kukan

                        You yourself ... an owl. Makar, if you were not there, you would have to come up with. I'm bored with you, I want to sleep from you laughing
                      7. Mcar
                        Mcar 16 November 2019 12: 56 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        My dog ​​will give such "people" like you a hundred points a handicap ... and he will win without a bazaar

                        So that's just the point - I tell you this: your predator is a tenacious herbivore. Your ability to kill at champion level. Rejoice!

                        Another question is what to kill, it is not human at all. And you do not understand this. Without a bazaar.
                      8. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 04 New
                        +3
                        Quote: McAr
                        Your predator is a tenacious herbivore. Your ability to kill at champion level

                        You have a rare ability to hear only and exclusively yourself. Then you even blocked the black grouse laughing

                        Man, everything that you are trying to glue me here - you yourself thought up. I did not say that no

                        As for the dog - he survived in such an environment that I would not survive. There is simply no question about you - you only live on the network, as I understand it. So do not you judge him. And me too yes

                        By the way, on the topic

                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        You, my friend, studied life exclusively from books, a campaign

                        and

                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Quote: McAr

                        sorry for "ML-philosophy brains ate"


                        I'm sorry. There was nothing to eat. Originally

                        - For some reason, you have no questions.

                        Symptomatically, however wink
                      9. Mcar
                        Mcar 16 November 2019 13: 09 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Man, everything that you are trying to glue me here - you yourself thought up. I did not say that

                        Maybe they didn’t pronounce it. But that's exactly what they thought.

                        Or are you for the overthrow of the capitalist system? Maybe you are for socialism? Without verbiage, weakly answer these TWO questions in ONE word?
                      10. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: McAr
                        Quote: Golovan Jack

                        Man, everything that you are trying to glue me here - you yourself thought up. I did not say that

                        Maybe they didn’t pronounce it. But that's exactly what they thought.

                        #granite.

                        Well, damn you, telepa-aaaat good laughing good

                        Man, tie up with drugs .. "He will bring it later - you will find a fix" ... yes yes

                        Quote: McAr
                        Or are you for overthrow capitalist system? Maybe you are for socialism?

                        I boil for anyone except massacre. And I’ve already experienced the “revolution” in the 90s (and its consequences), and I do not need more "evolutions". And I don’t care about their orientation, “revolution” - I just don’t need them. I get it?

                        Makar, get on already. I am smarter, you are more persistent. A flood is prohibited by the rules request
                      11. Rusland
                        Rusland 16 November 2019 14: 09 New
                        +3
                        Quote: McAr
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Man, everything that you are trying to glue me here - you yourself thought up. I did not say that

                        Maybe they didn’t pronounce it. But that's exactly what they thought.

                        Or are you for the overthrow of the capitalist system? Maybe you are for socialism? Without verbiage, weakly answer these TWO questions in ONE word?

                        Listen, Odnoslov-verbiage, got it already, and you’ll smoke here the sky and poison the environment. negative
                      12. Mouse
                        Mouse 16 November 2019 21: 01 New
                        +5
                        three words, what they wanted, they got it! for which they flogged, then ran into it ... slurp ....
                  2. Rusland
                    Rusland 16 November 2019 14: 04 New
                    +6
                    Quote: McAr
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    My dog ​​will give such "people" like you a hundred points a handicap ... and he will win without a bazaar

                    So that's just the point - I tell you this: your predator is a tenacious herbivore. Your ability to kill at champion level. Rejoice!

                    Another question is what to kill, it is not human at all. And you do not understand this. Without a bazaar.

                    Man, are you on the Internet? hi . And say such things as if you are standing in a gateway with a knife, where you get so much anger towards your compatriots, you can take away a granny from a piece of bread from starvation. negative
                  3. sniperino
                    sniperino 16 November 2019 16: 46 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Rusland
                    And say things like you're standing in a gateway with a knife
                    I did not stand in front of you "buddy" with a knife in the gateway, do not write what you do not know. There, other words are completely spoken: "without a bazaar" - does not roll at all request
                  4. Rusland
                    Rusland 16 November 2019 19: 55 New
                    +5
                    Quote: sniperino
                    Quote: Rusland
                    And say things like you're standing in a gateway with a knife
                    I did not stand in front of you "buddy" with a knife in the gateway, do not write what you do not know. There, other words are completely spoken: "without a bazaar" - does not roll at all request

                    What do you have to do with it? hi
                  5. sniperino
                    sniperino 16 November 2019 20: 52 New
                    -7
                    Quote: Rusland
                    What do you have to do with it?
                    Shot ...
                2. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 20: 14 New
                  +6
                  Quote: sniperino
                  I did not stand in front of you "buddy" with a knife in the gateway, do not write what you do not know

                  This is ... more accurate. And there will be happiness to you laughing

                  You answered - not to that, and answered - not to the topic .. more accurately))
                3. sniperino
                  sniperino 16 November 2019 20: 22 New
                  -8
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  You answered - not to that, and answered - not to the topic
                  I answered who I wanted - Rusland (Vitaly); probably not the topic, since both of you are outraged.
      3. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 12: 57 New
        +1
        Interesting, and who do you work with and your opponent?
      4. Mcar
        Mcar 16 November 2019 12: 59 New
        -1
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        Interesting, and who do you work with and your opponent?

        What does it matter who works and with whom IF it is a clash of worldviews?
      5. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 13: 04 New
        +4
        Yes, that’s just the point. What if you basically have one profession, you are doing one thing, but your views may be completely different ... since no one canceled the difference in views,
      6. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        because no one has canceled the difference of views,

      7. Mouse
        Mouse 17 November 2019 00: 44 New
        +3
        Are you a womb ????
      8. New Year day
        New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 26 New
        +5
        Quote: Mouse
        Are you a womb ????

        Have you ever seen a womb? I’ve removed a woman with a tumor a couple of days ago, now we are fighting for her life. So what do you know about the uterus .....
      9. Mouse
        Mouse 17 November 2019 01: 37 New
        +2
        Sobserouon anthill tucked up? at least in your picture so shown .... belay
      10. New Year day
        New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 39 New
        +3
        what was it about?
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        ... because no one has canceled the difference of views

        and in the anthill there is complete unanimity. So the uterus has nothing to do with it, especially since you don’t know what it is
      11. Mouse
        Mouse 17 November 2019 01: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        ... because no one has canceled the difference of views

        Sylvester, if you have not noticed that the commint is not mine at all laughing and for the anthill I’ll say ... the hierarchy is still the same! yes
      12. New Year day
        New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: Mouse
        and for the anthill I’ll say ... the hierarchy is still the same!

        I honestly doubt it. that someone can understand and comprehend that hierarchy. People cannot know themselves, but they take on ants. Laugh
      13. Mouse
        Mouse 17 November 2019 01: 58 New
        +4
        then what is the conversation about? belay
      14. New Year day
        New Year day 17 November 2019 02: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Mouse
        then what is the conversation about?

        I believe that we are all different people and cannot, by definition, think the same way. And thinking on a template is a surrogate hi
      15. Mouse
        Mouse 17 November 2019 02: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: Silvestr
        I believe that we are all different people and cannot, by definition, think the same way

        how many people, so many opinions! just everything is simple ...
        most ... decided! and most decided, in all other cases ...
        now late to rush about .....
  • Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 24 New
    -5
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    suddenly, by and large ... you are doing one thing

    Not ... Andrey, this is not a profession. Makar is an old and well-known "fiery fighter." In the Internet. I - work, I just can not stop - many who are tied to me. That’s the whole difference.

    So the affairs with Makar and I are diametrically opposite, I would say.
  • A good one
    A good one 16 November 2019 13: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: McAr
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Interesting, and who do you work with and your opponent?

    What does it matter who works and with whom IF it is a clash of worldviews?

    Didn’t you lose your mind? Sofa worldview? belay
  • Mouse
    Mouse 16 November 2019 21: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: McAr
    IF it is a clash of worldviews?

    what nonsense ... the fish is looking deeper, and the person where it is better ... you have found your path ...
  • Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Who do you work with and your opponent?

    Question to Makar, I will answer (for now) I: I work, ahem, a programmer ... in the broad sense of the word. I program everything, people, if necessary - I also program laughing

    Opponent, IMHO - an internet chatterbox, he has read textbooks from the time of the Union. From the history of the CPSU and further on the list.
  • A good one
    A good one 16 November 2019 13: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Interesting, and who do you work with and your opponent?

    One litter a little, that is, aching and moaning, and the other cleans it, according to the rules, so as not to flood. yes
  • A good one
    A good one 16 November 2019 13: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: McAr
    Well, throw away your gadget from which you shit.

    Then give your "golden" toilet to your grandmothers on retirement, not everyone and everything to put "good" in the common piggy bank. yes
  • Serg65
    Serg65 16 November 2019 13: 14 New
    +4
    Quote: McAr
    Are you against science, against progress?

    what And progress, is it only socialism-communism? I understand other options .. no? Although ... here in China .... but there socialism is somehow degenerated, not communist! It turns out that Marxist-Leninist economic theory has not found a niche in the global economy?
    1. Mcar
      Mcar 16 November 2019 13: 19 New
      -3
      Quote: Serg65
      And progress, is it only socialism-communism?

      Yes. Any doubts?

      Quote: Serg65
      I understand other options .. no?

      You understand very, very correctly - towards progress other no options. In the direction of regression - a million options.

      Quote: Serg65
      Although ... here in China ....

      What is there in China, I’ll understand in about ... twenty years. Then we’ll go after China.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 16 November 2019 13: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: McAr
        in the direction of progress, there are no other options.

        The most interesting thing is that the authorities periodically give the Communists a chance to show themselves, appointing members of the Communist Party either governors or mayors of cities ... what maybe I don’t know, but not one red governor or the mayor has created a paradise for ordinary people on his accountable territory, and the saddest thing is that all these comrades ended their rule in the most sad way .... I'm not lying, some and now they rule, covering themselves with corruption, personal PR of their loved ones and raising their salaries. recourse
        Guys, before doing another obscure "progressive" experiment over a country, can you make a candy from any field first? Show people your progress live, and then stutter about the "perestroika" !!!!
        Quote: McAr
        What is there in China, I’ll understand in about ... twenty years.

        Quote: McAr
        What is there in China, I’ll understand in about ... twenty years.

        laughing Well, if today there are 658 billionaires in communist China, then in years ... twenty chairman of the CCP billionaire Xi Yun Qing announced ........
  • sniperino
    sniperino 18 November 2019 14: 40 New
    -2
    If you are strongly opposed to strangers interfering in your private debate, you can communicate via PM
    Quote: McAr
    Karl Marx merely described the nature of capitalism.
    Capitalism does not have an eternal and unchanging "nature": this is what people do. Man changes in history, one might say, he creates his nature. If Marx lived in Sweden at the beginning of the 21st century, “Capital” if there was, then it’s about a completely different basis and superstructure, nmv.
    1. Mcar
      Mcar 18 November 2019 17: 11 New
      -1
      Quote: sniperino
      Capitalism does not have an eternal and unchanging "nature": this is what people do. Man changes in history, one might say, he creates his nature. If Marx lived in Sweden at the beginning of the 21st century, “Capital” if there was, then it’s about a completely different basis and superstructure, nmv.

      You want to say that the capitalist now does not take away surplus value from those who create it, or does it somehow differently, not in the way its predecessors did in past centuries? This is the main thing, this is the essence in capitalism. So let's talk about the main thing, about how and what has changed, changed, transformed here. Only without verbiage, if possible.

      PS.
      Quote: sniperino
      If you are strongly opposed to strangers interfering in your private debate, you can communicate via PM

      From what words did you make such a wonderful conclusion?
  • Mouse
    Mouse 16 November 2019 21: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: McAr
    But not according to Chubaisyat patterns, but according to scientific ones. To say the Marxist.

    action plan????
    If not, we all live in vain.

    it means living in vain ....
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 16 November 2019 10: 01 New
    +1
    You misunderstood, this redhead will not survive it. lol
  • Svarog
    Svarog 16 November 2019 09: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: SarS
    It seems that the red comrades at all posts are preparing Russia for the next perestroika.

    Russia will begin to prosper from the moment when they begin to hold such redheads accountable for what they have done ... it will mean awareness, and awareness is the first step towards correction.
  • Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 09: 16 New
    -8
    Quote: SarS
    red comrades at all posts are preparing Russia for the next perestroika

    A good shot, whiners will fly ... like flies on, um, honey laughing
    1. depressant
      depressant 16 November 2019 09: 53 New
      +8
      Jack, welcome! Glad to see you!
      At least one optimist, and that’s nice)))
      Here we need to at least briefly explain something. Capitalism and fear of losing a job are inseparable. In the "old" capitalist society, there were two conditions conducive to the coexistence of fear and optimism. This is an extensive expansion of the capitalist formation, as well as a scientific and technological revolution. Both absorbed excess labor and forced the capitalists to increase tariffs. Now there is no such thing. The expansion of old capitalism to new habitats due to neocolonial policy is a thing of the past, new technology freeing people, so far creates an excess of labor, and therefore the population in general. Even as an experiment, they began to use imputed income in some places. Therefore, according to sociologists, society is 90% immersed in depression, and, everywhere, around the world. And only the fear of social riots forces us to raise tariffs, but not with us, as I said in a post below. Yes, centuries of capitalism have allowed the creation of a mechanism in the Western society of consolidated social resistance to oppression. But we do not have such a mechanism yet. We come from socialism. We are still subconsciously hoping for power, for its reason, for the possibility of a fair redistribution of wealth, for full employment and for intergenerational solidarity. Subconsciously. We hope so. Understanding by the mind that this is impossible.
      In my opinion, the increase in wages, if anyone catches up with it, is only unique specialists. And that is not a fact.
      So, Jack, don’t be so strict. Your pendell will not help us. The realities of being, you know. Being determines consciousness, and the subconscious dotes Ð rather than where they cannot be by definition. No matter how optimistic you are.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2019 10: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: depressant
        Glad to see you!

        that's for sure! Jack cheers up hi
        1. Rusland
          Rusland 16 November 2019 14: 53 New
          +7
          Quote: Silvestr
          Quote: depressant
          Glad to see you!

          that's for sure! Jack cheers up hi

          I agree that Jack is uplifting. yes Well, why produce bed bugs of mattresses. yes
      2. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 10: 18 New
        -8
        A lot of buzzwords. I have a stack overflow repeat

        Quote: depressant
        according to sociologists, society is 90% depressed, and, everywhere

        Among the people I communicate with - I drove from Roskosmos (57 years old), a working pensioner from there (62 years old), a cashier from Ataka (55 years old), her son (33 years old, a locksmith in a private office, makes aluminum windows), a couple self-employed ... they have two used trucks, they work for them ... somehow I don’t see much depression. I’m silent about “at work” - there is quite a healthy young growth, well-working and without any depression ... strange, right? wink

        Quote: depressant
        We come from socialism. We are still subconsciously hope for power.

        And in vain. I come from there too. But probably just thinking faster is accustomed to laughing

        Quote: depressant
        In my opinion, the increase in wages, if anyone catches up with it, is only unique specialists. And that is not a fact

        The boy I mentioned, who creates windows, earns on the same level as me.

        He’s like a "unique specialist", huh what

        Quote: depressant
        Being determines consciousness

        Everyone is the creator of his "being."

        Life is beautiful - you just need to choose the right one antidepressants (C) wink
        1. UserGun
          UserGun 16 November 2019 13: 16 New
          +7
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          strange huh


          What is strange is that you are from Moscow to unsubscribe to us? If you lived in a province, the situation would be completely different. Moscowabad and several other Potemkin villages are not at all an indicator for the entire Russian Federation.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: UserGun
            If you lived in a province, then ...

            ... and if grandmother had a knife, she would be a robber.

            You see, with my profession, I can work in Mexico, for example ... without leaving my kitchen. At the same time, it is plane-parallel to me where this "kitchen" is located - on Red Square, or in Uryupinsk.

            And, yes, I'm not a Muscovite. Zamkadysh we ... and life beyond the Moscow Ring Road - is. Believe it or not - I don’t care.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 14: 05 New
              +1
              There is life beyond MKAD, and there is normal, there is terrible, all, Moscow and MKAD, not all of Russia
          2. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 14: 06 New
            +1
            And you yourself are a nice person in what area or region do you deign to live?
            1. UserGun
              UserGun 16 November 2019 21: 32 New
              +2
              Well, let's just say, only 200, with a small, km from non-rubber laughing Yes, it’s just a couple of hundred kilometers and life changes diametrically, despite all the efforts of the propagandons.
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 21: 46 New
                +2
                Quote: UserGun
                some couple hundred kilometers and life changes diametrically

                What is the "diametral", buddy?

                Quote: UserGun
                propagandons

                Be careful with the terms, huh? wink
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 27 New
          +4
          Novel! You are scaring me! Are they really ...
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          ..... antidepressants
          ? laughing
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 13: 33 New
            -3
            Quote: Silvestr
            Novel! You are scaring me! Are they really ...
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            ..... antidepressants
            ? laughing

            Have you seen my opponent’s nickname? wink

            And yes, naturally

            1. New Year day
              New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 35 New
              +3
              no questions
        3. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 23: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          there is quite a healthy young growth, solidly working and without any depression ... strange, right?

          So on youth and I did not know what the depressant is. As my neighbor said: "If you woke up after 40 years, and nothing hurts you, then you're dead."
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 23: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            So on youth and I did not know what a depressant

            Vladimir, not about that. And it's about the fact that the young - quite orientated themselves in the situation, and it works fine. I have a department head who is 15 years younger than me ... nothing, quite a competent and sane guy. It's nice to work with him yes

            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            If you woke up after 40 years, and nothing hurts you, then you're dead

            Do not step on the patient. I'm already an old man and will die soon laughing
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 23: 33 New
              0
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              And it's about the fact that the young - quite orientated themselves in the situation, and it works fine.

              So in his youth, and we worked hard, be healthy. One Mari Ivanovna at 20 waved a kilo all day, chopped off the nuts. But the grandfathers came up and said: "Vova, what are you? Work is not a member, it stood and will stand."
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 41 New
                +5
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                : "Vova, what are you? Work is not a member, it has stood and will stand."

                in youth everything is seen differently. And when old age comes, you ask the question, “why?”
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 31 New
            +6
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            As my neighbor said: "If you woke up after 40 years, and nothing hurts you, then you're dead."

            very true rule! There is also a proverb: there are no healthy people, there are poorly examined people. There are practically no real healthy and regardless of age
  • fa2998
    fa2998 16 November 2019 06: 18 New
    +15
    Very interesting. Something like that would have been written, but offended by talent.
    Everyone is already spitting on the TV screen when the local governor is reporting to the president that I have a salary of 45 (50.itd) in the REGION. Our "elite" costs too much to disperse half, cut half of the salary. Yes, dreams, they have all the laws hands. Have arranged a paradise for themselves, against themselves they will not do anything. hi
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 November 2019 06: 20 New
    +1
    Dear author, is it painful? Capitalism, freedom, sausage ... But under the USSR there was no toilet paper ... So everything is fine, with an unprecedented optimism we look to the future .... laughing
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 November 2019 06: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: parusnik
      So everything is fine, we are looking with some optimism into the future ....

      1. parusnik
        parusnik 16 November 2019 14: 34 New
        +2
        hi Greetings .. here, here .... exactly so ... laughing
    2. 72jora72
      72jora72 16 November 2019 06: 52 New
      +7
      Capitalism, freedom, sausage ... But under the USSR there was no toilet paper ...
      We had, and paper and sausage, you probably meant Gorbachev socialism and its consequences ....
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 09: 08 New
        -1
        Quote: 72jora72
        We had both paper and sausage

        Special supplies, camping trip laughing

        I remember the Union from the sixties. I can tell you about the sausage that I saw, and about the toilet paper ... a chopped newspaper worked on it, og request

        Quote: Azis
        ... then use the newspaper for hygiene purposes ...

        In yes
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 10: 46 New
        -7
        Goods began to pass into the category of deficit even under Brezhnev. At least the sausage disappeared precisely with him.
      3. parusnik
        parusnik 16 November 2019 14: 32 New
        +3
        I didn’t mean anything .. I don’t have a sense of humor, just sarcasm ... It’s a pity that they didn’t understand ... hi
    3. Azis
      Azis 16 November 2019 07: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      ... And under the USSR there was no toilet paper ...
      There were good newspapers. While you are doing business, you can study the situation in the world, solve a crossword puzzle, then use the newspaper for hygienic purposes ... In the army, often, a volume of Lenin from the red corner spoke for the same purpose. wink
    4. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 16 November 2019 14: 46 New
      +4
      Today, everything is fine only with the oligarchs, members of the government, members of Edra and those who cling to them. And the majority of the people of Russia are far from doing well.
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 16 November 2019 06: 38 New
    +3
    In August, in Moscow, I laid down the parquet on Rublevka, Gorki 9, and they needed to paint the walls of the forestry marches, three levels, a budget of 120 thousand, the foreman hires a young Kyrgyz, for 80 thousand, he comes with two more, 2 thousand each day, paint in five days, the budget is spent. smile
    1. serge siberian
      serge siberian 16 November 2019 20: 31 New
      0
      With hunchback, the estate was owned by Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov. In 1986 it was re-opened and repaired.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 16 November 2019 06: 59 New
    +15
    There is a good management book. Helps to understand the logic of our guides.

    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 09: 33 New
      -16
      A man, if people like you (or even better) stand behind the fence, they will control you ... well, exactly from this book.

      What have you done to distinguish yourself from this line for the better? Campaign - nothing. Well, so you did everything for yourself wassat

      It seems obvious things ... but no, schA dissatisfied flies. Silent, they only know how to push buttons laughing
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 16 November 2019 14: 48 New
        +6
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        A man, if people like you (or even better) stand behind the fence, they will control you ... well, exactly from this book.

        Golovan, I have nothing against you. Just a consideration. What happens when a queue of people like you appears. Working for Mexico from their own kitchen. IMHO, wages just fall and averaged around the world. Those. work in their own country or Mexico will be monopenisual.
        Something similar is happening with taxi aggregators. About 10 years ago, taxi drivers were like kings, had space tariffs. Yandex taxis, taxi drivers, maxims, uber, etc. have appeared. And where are all these luminaries of the helm now?
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 15: 08 New
          +6
          Quote: Winnie76
          What happens when a queue of people like you appears. Working for mexico from their own kitchen

          So she is. Turn.

          Two ways: to keep fit (study, study and study ... well, understandably), or fall in price. As far from being a young man, I adhere to the middle ground - and not superprofiles, and salary - not the top industry. But enough for me.

          Quote: Winnie76
          Something similar is happening with taxi aggregators. About 10 years ago, taxi drivers were like kings

          It’s a bit different then. There are a lot of people who know how to drive a mafia. Able to code - a little less. Those who know how to set a task, find ways to solve it (up to the purchase of software and hardware) and solve this problem are few and never will be. I’m just one of those, and I’m definitely enough for 10-15 years. And then (if not earlier) I will not care laughing

          That's about as request
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 20: 22 New
            +1
            PS: five minuses to the neutral comment amuse. Guys, drink pills)))
          2. Winnie76
            Winnie76 16 November 2019 21: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            So she is. Turn.

            Quote: Golovan Jack
            A man, if there is a queue behind people like you (or even better), they will control you ... well, exactly from this book

            Those. it turns out and you will be controlled by this book
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            I adhere to the middle ground - not superprofession, and salary - not the top industry. But enough for me.

            It turns out that the question is not professionalism, but according to income and expenses. Therefore, according to your logic, cutting costs, you can consider yourself a successful specialist. Well, if there is enough kefir with a bagel, then the programmer is hoo.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            It’s a bit different then. There are a lot of people who know how to drive a mafia. Able to code - a little less.

            Yes but. Those who know how to "drive a mafia" compete with their own kind in each particular locality. And in your case with specialists all over the world
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 21: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Winnie76
              it turns out and you will be controlled by this book

              It doesn’t work out yet. So far, I am fairly easy to denote - what, where and when I need to "have happiness." I repeat - I do not expect to live very long, for 10-15 years (and this is a lot with a margin) - enough for me.

              Quote: Winnie76
              The question is not in professionalism, but in accordance with income and expenses.

              In the ratio of professionalism and price for it.

              I want to have a mistress, but I do not have the opportunity.
              I can have a goat, but I have no desire

              Any customer is in exactly the same framework. Someone will buy like her there, from the Mask .. Ponte balcony, this is not for me. And who really needs to solve the problems - he’ll be somewhere in the area of ​​me.

              Everything is simple, in fact.

              Quote: Winnie76
              in your case with specialists all over the world

              Well, so far not so ... and then, my friend, there is such crap - a reputation ... but it just does not appear. Here I have it, but Vasya from the neighboring kitchen doesn’t ... who do you think they will turn to ... normal people, in the sense? wink

              Everything is simple. At first glance, yeah yes
              1. Winnie76
                Winnie76 16 November 2019 21: 48 New
                +4
                The logic is clear. After us, even a flood, for our age, and so on. Simply, if we are talking about the future, the world is rolling into complete hopelessness. There are fewer jobs, including skilled ones, and more people
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 22: 00 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Winnie76
                  After us, even a flood, enough for our age, etc.

                  Ummm ... I have a child and she doesn’t think so stop

                  Quote: Winnie76
                  the world is rolling in complete hopeless w

                  Vinnie .. about these topics - not to me, better to Sylvester, he is somewhere a proctologist laughing

                  Quote: Winnie76
                  Work, including skilled, less and less

                  Work up to ... well, you will be waist-high (s).

                  Quote: Winnie76
                  and more people

                  I have exactly the number of blacks in Africa and Arabs in Europe. Normal specialists are few. By the way, there have never been many of them. I tell you this confidentially, yeah ... and the others are not very interesting to me.

                  Somehow request
                  1. Winnie76
                    Winnie76 16 November 2019 22: 25 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Work up to ... well, you will be waist-high (s).

                    Man, I’ll give an example according to my profile. About 15 years ago, 15-20 people worked in the average boiler room. Now in the automated one and that boss works. Those. the number of jobs decreased by 15 times. Attention is the question - where are all these people now? Got to programmers and work for Mexico?
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 16 November 2019 22: 34 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Winnie76
                      Attention is the question - where are all these people now? Got to programmers and work for Mexico?

                      And what is stopping you? And so, to be honest - and from what stump is this my sadness?

                      My friend, I am a physical chemist by training, dragging ... in the 90s, I was not in demand for this specialist, I was retrained as a programmer. Well, somehow it was necessary to feed the family zhezh was, and I liked this specialist, initially ...

                      You need to think, head off. And do not wait when you under, ahem, kick ass.

                      I repeat - the little boy who works as a locksmith "at the windows" - in my castle is well worth a hundred. True, there are “physicists” of dofig - from matyukov to a sledgehammer laughing

                      All paths are open for us - we are ... exactly where to go

                      Where from? wink
                  2. New Year day
                    New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 37 New
                    +7
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    better to Sylvester, he’s somewhere proctologist

                    Novel! Do you either scare me or advertise? Specify. They said little for advertising laughing
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 17 November 2019 01: 44 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      They said little for advertising

                      This is to Shpakovsky. He will sign according to all the rules of PR science. laughing
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 45 New
                        +3
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        This is to Shpakovsky.

                        who is that?
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 17 November 2019 01: 54 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        who is that?

                        Our historian, writer, Caliber drove. Former teacher of the history of the CPSU, about PR advertising a couple of books scribbled. In the "History" section of the article he writes. He knows how to transfer money to offshore companies, he advised new Russians on this issue. laughing Wow, something a mockery attacked me. wink
                      3. New Year day
                        New Year day 17 November 2019 01: 57 New
                        +6
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Our historian

                        understandably. As my first boss said, the best advertising, that is, PR, at present, create your grateful patients. Then historians are not needed laughing
                2. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 17 November 2019 13: 44 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Novel! Do you either scare me or advertise?

                  Not. Purely reminiscence:

                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  here Sylvester wanders nearby, says that the doctor

                  have any doubts? You can drive up, I’ll help you. At your choice: sigmoidoscopy, colonoscopy or colostomy, but immediately

                  Am I saying something wrong? what
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 18 November 2019 21: 33 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Am I saying something wrong?

                    all right. Novel. It’s just by me and by you that I’ve listed is just a small fragment of my work hi
                3. The comment was deleted.
  • AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 16 November 2019 07: 23 New
    +4
    What Oreshkin said about 4% is not for him. This is the people in the ears ..... laughing
  • Van 16
    Van 16 16 November 2019 08: 25 New
    +5
    Absolutely correct article. Everything is just like that. By the way, for example, under the Union, and then a little bit, there was an article in the collective agreement of the enterprise, the difference in payment of 10 percent of the highest paid employees and 10 percent of the lowest paid was not more than six times. Then this article naturally disappeared. As a result - the salary of a locksmith, well, or an electrician of 5th category 25, the director’s salary is two hundred million (according to an official declaration).
  • Earthshaker
    Earthshaker 16 November 2019 08: 43 New
    +4
    Thank you, the more people read the article, the better for our future.
  • Stas157
    Stas157 16 November 2019 09: 01 New
    +10
    Minister Medinsky a month had 700.000 rubles, the locksmith indicated at the beginning of the note - 25.000.

    Siluanov receives more than a million. He justified high salaries in the government by the fact that you won’t get talented in any other way - talents for less money will not go! That's just, unfortunately, talents in the government do not even smell.
  • depressant
    depressant 16 November 2019 09: 03 New
    +8
    Yes, Medinsky, the Minister of Culture, is 28 times richer than a locksmith — formally, but essentially 200. But society doesn’t compare so much the salaries of employees (a Medinsky official means a mercenary), as incomes of different segments of the population. That’s what got sick!
    It is impossible to blur the problem of the income gap between the rich and the poor by the problem of the gap between the salaries of employees. You need to start from this - with the problem of social justice, and not with tariffs. The problem of justice will be solved, and the problem of tariffs will be solved.
    The collapse of the USSR led to the curtailment of the seeds of social justice in the West, which could not but concern the most reasonable representatives of the rich layer - their layer! Here, for example, with what words back in 2014, the American billionaire Nick Hanover, in his memorandum “Forks are waiting for us,” turned to the rich layer of America: “If we continue to feed inequality, the result will be a riot.” And they heard him! Since then, the US hourly wage rate has been steadily increasing. Of course, even medium and small capitalists are looking for workarounds in the form of part-time workers — capitalism is capitalism! But the reasonable influence of the frightened rich layer on their behavior certainly affects. Is our layer especially hardy? No. Because he is not ours and, it seems, has never been ours. Moreover, through the boards of directors of the quasi-billionaire, billionaires are working in a strong bond with representatives of countries openly hostile to Russia. Having influence on the ministries and the State Duma, these people are able to influence these authorities only for the purpose of increasing the monetary content of their pockets, but we do not exist for them. It is only possible to wait for tariff increases with the submission of political power. So, is it reasonable in this sense? Or worried even before the usual statement of concern?
    1. edmed
      edmed 16 November 2019 09: 35 New
      +7
      Quote: depressant
      depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova)

      love Thank you for your support, in the dispute with the Cat and Bullter, but on the topic, well, this is a continuation of that dispute, if you want the cow to milk, feed.
  • Million
    Million 16 November 2019 09: 20 New
    +9
    All states differ only fair distribution of income
  • Boris55
    Boris55 16 November 2019 09: 29 New
    +5
    And under Stalin, prices were reduced, and each resident of the country on his budget felt his ownership in the life of the state ...
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 16 November 2019 09: 39 New
    +9
    There was no fair (ideal) system of assessment and remuneration of labor, no, and never will be. But! But one must strive for this wisely, because this is one of the main motivations for effective work / service.

    In a capitalist society where: “... Provide capital with 10% of the profits, and capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, at 300% there’s no crime he couldn’t risk, at least under pain of the gallows. ” In contrast to a socialist society, the principle of economic structure of which is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work." By the way, during slavery and during the time of the feudal lords (landowners in Russia), there was no need to talk about any kind of social justice.
    And the director of the factory where the locksmith works receives 500 thousand (which is quite modest in our times)

    Modestly in our times - 80-100 thousand. And the director of the plant in the days of the USSR received 400-600 rubles a month, and a fitter of the 5th category from 160 to 180 rubles. This indicates greater social justice and a thorough calculation of tariffs and salaries. By the way, the payroll sheet was general and anyone could, if desired, find out how much this or that employee receives (earns). It was only under capitalism that it became "indecent" to count money in someone else's pockets and find out how they got there. And in our time it was like this:

    Minister Medinsky in the month had 700.000 rubles, indicated at the beginning of the note locksmith - 25.000. It seems that Medina is richer than a locksmith in 28 times. You are not there! Wealth is what remains. The locksmith at best has a couple of thousand. And Medinsky will leave half a million without problems, which means that he is richer than a locksmith 250 times!

    You did the wrong calculation. In our case, we need to calculate the necessary (mandatory) payments of one and the other: payment of housing and communal services (without taking into account payment by the Medinsky choir), life insurance, etc. And the easiest way is to “put” the minimum wage in each person’s salary. Then the output will be:
    25: 000 = 11
    700: 000 = 11
    As a result, the minister receives almost 30 times more locksmith. Notice. In the USSR, the minister's salary was (at different times - different, and depended on the ministry itself) from 800 to 1200 rubles. A driver in the Butovskaya mine (Kemerovo) earned 1975-420 rubles a month in 440, and a first-class driver in Nadym earned 1-800 rubles a month.
    You can read here:
    https://qna.center/question/2099721
    For comparison, I want to give more such data:
    Donald Trump refused the presidential salary of $ 400 thousand per year ($ 33 ​​thousand per month, $ 1 per day), saying that he would receive $ 095 for each year of work - less is impossible by law. The current president’s fortune is $ 1 billion, so he can afford to work without remuneration. Before him, Herbert Hoover and John F. Kennedy worked without paycheck.
    The minimum monthly wage in the United States is $ 1 per month.

    Или:
    Xi Jinping receives a modest $ 20 a year ($ 593 a month, $ 1 a day), and this is after his salary was increased by 716% in 56! The head of the PRC, his wife and daughter do not own a business, but the condition of his immediate family is estimated at $ 2015 million.
    The minimum wage in China is $ 150–300 per month and depends on the specific province.

    And in Russia:
    Russian President Vladimir Putin in 2018 earned 8 million 648 thousand 353 rubles. Such data are contained in the declaration of the head of state on income, expenses and property published on Friday on the Kremlin’s website. On average, the president’s monthly salary last year amounted to 720,7 thousand rubles.
    For comparison, the minimum wage in Russia is 11 rubles per month.

    But even I had an opinion about some kind of craftiness when we were told about the income of Sechin and Miller (clerks from state-owned companies).
    hi
    stop
    But for me, a locksmith is more valuable. But Medinsky is even to some extent a patriot and not at all the worst person in the cabinet...

    The truth is random, like most others ... yes
    1. nikon7717
      nikon7717 16 November 2019 10: 38 New
      +5
      According to the minimum wage, the salary is considered a perversion. In addition to the need to provide for himself, food, housing and communal services, a person has a bunch of different needs. He should dress normally, be able to make savings (not small, for investment in housing), which the state does not provide him today like during the USSR. Pay for tuition, how much can we get a free education from us? Yes, only once, if the average, then the highest self payment. What are the children to keep? This 1,5 minimum wage is really a child over (health, mugs, clothes ..). Total we consider what in what size the minimum wage should receive the worker? It turned out at a glance, at least from 3. For a family without children.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 16 November 2019 12: 17 New
        +7
        Quote: nikon7717
        According to the minimum wage, the salary is considered a perversion.

        Perversion vote for a law according to which it is impossible to live normally on a minimum wage. Do not take into account the costs of housing and communal services, medicines, food, clothes and some spiritual needs. Here they cited data that the content of the guard dog is higher than this minimum wage, and none of the deputies was able to live on a minimum wage for more than a week.
        And equal salaries to the minimum wage - right. Only the highest budgetary salary should not (with all payments) exceed 10 minimum wages. By law, binding on all. Then the minimum wage will begin to grow. And the budget will be replenished faster due to the opening of new industries, and not new speculative dealers.
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 13: 02 New
      +5
      Wait ... a 5th grade fitter at a shipyard in Gorky (Khabarovsk) in those days received at least 300 rubles, at least !! I tell you that for sure, and who is higher than the category in the so-called "closed" workshops and more ... but it is, replica
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 16 November 2019 13: 15 New
        +6
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        Wait ... locksmith of 5 category at a shipyard in the village of Gorky

        I can wait ... And even agree ... Do you know that in the USSR there were locksmiths, turners and other highly skilled workers whose salaries were higher than those of the ministers? True, such “Lefthanders” were at odds ... This was told to me by a geologist who came to the Kola Peninsula from Leningrad. We talked a lot and for a long time. I learned as much from him as could not be read in the secret library ...
        Therefore, I can only rejoice at your knowledge of the region in which I happened to be (Primorsky Krai - Sergeevka village, Vladivostok) a little more than a month.
        hi
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 13: 32 New
          +6
          In the course, there were those at our factory, my hands were really golden, plus rationalizers and so on .. the region .. I lived there for 17 years .. still only the brightest memories ... but what to go, boy, a graduate of the pheasant at the factory turner, so he himself invented the fasteners for the cutters, so he sharpened them so he made such a detail ... a ball, there are four holes in it, inside the cube and in the cube there is such a four-pointed star and all this was separate inside each other ... he is to us when we brought the CPC, we didn’t believe ... so he was a graduate of a pheasant then already earned how much ... and they didn’t want him to go to the army. The head of the department went to the chief engineer to make an ostrochka ...
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 16 November 2019 13: 33 New
        +5
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        .5 grade fitter at a shipyard in Gorky (Khabarovsk) in those days received at least 300 rubles

        the assistant of the department received 250. associate professor - 350, professor - 500 rubles
      3. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 15: 43 New
        -4
        The locksmith got 300, and the engineer 200?
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 15: 51 New
          +4
          And why are you surprised? A graduate of a technical university, an engineer from 100 to 150 ... 200 is if you got into the defense industry ....
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 16: 32 New
            0
            My mother, a surgeon in the Central Hospital, earned 130 rubles. The plumber in the same hospital - 150. The doctor studies 6 + 2 = 8 years and his responsibility is orders of magnitude higher than the plumber.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 16: 35 New
              +2
              Well, that’s how the matter was set up ... under I.V. Stalin he didn’t live, but at that time it was the other way around ... if it’s not right, then correct
              1. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 16 November 2019 16: 43 New
                0
                Under Stalin, just the engineers had a much higher salary than workers.
        2. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 16: 05 New
          +7
          Remember, “Moscow does not believe in tears,” Gosh, a fitter of the 6th grade, he really earned more than all these candidates in those years, I don’t know the doctors of science ... and apparently he had a research institute during the defense .. so here such things were .... and now neither locksmiths, nor engineers ... some effective managers to put them on a swing
          1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Manas manas
      Manas manas 16 November 2019 14: 50 New
      +3
      If we compare the salaries of top = managers of the USA and Russia, it turns out that top managers of the USA having a profitable business have much less than their Russian colleagues!
    4. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 November 2019 02: 09 New
      +1
      Once the boss talked about the turner, who received twice as much as the director. He, such a bastard, with his emulsion, drove a plan cleaner than Stakhanov. The director of the technologist calls: "What the hell is this? I’ll fire!" The technologist stole the emulsion from a turner, gave it for chemical analysis, and laboratory assistants could not determine what this emulsion consists of. belay
  • depressant
    depressant 16 November 2019 11: 07 New
    +3
    And another consideration.
    I admit that the topic of tariffs is close to the respected Author. Perhaps you, Alexander, work at the enterprise with state participation, or even an official (for officials, there is also some kind of graduation in salaries). But how relevant is the topic of tariffs at the moment? The whole world, with a shudder, is waiting for a crisis next year, such that, they say, how the tsunami will be. This means that everything that is accumulated in the National Welfare Fund over 7% of GDP will no longer go to the construction of infrastructure, as planned, but, like in the crisis of 2008, it will be allowed to support the existing state of things. That is, oligarchs, retirees, as well as maternity capital. I generally admit that under the crisis, the Fund will be almost completely torn apart - the past of the Fund was only enough for 2 years. After all, there will be crisis bankruptcies, layoffs, etc., which means that at least some support for the unemployed will be needed.
    At the same time, according to Medvedev’s decision, in the next three years, from the collected taxes, the budget will return to the economy only 40-50% of the collected, the rest - to the Fund. Which will be rapidly depleted by the crisis. So, investments in the country that have a long period of return, therefore, involving a wide hiring of skilled workers, obviously, will not be again.
    So, is it necessary in these conditions to raise the question of the salary tariff scale?
    It should!
    It was necessary yesterday.
    And then talk about tariffs for electricity, water, overhaul, etc. - yes, but the reason for the outrage is incomprehensible.
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 16 November 2019 12: 49 New
    +2
    With the remuneration of a locksmith at a factory, a craftsman, and so on, or of any other PRODUCTION, it is more or less clear, but what about the remuneration of state employees — school, medicine, millions of damned necessary, but in most unnecessary officials ... all kinds of departments ... further ... probably a thousand productions, God forbid, there are five sane directors-owners who understand and pay workers a decent salary, I’m lucky we have a boss, he’s a sane director, and what to do with others ... it's private production, state, of which there is little possible for us to somehow restrain or something ... and I agree with the author, madly infuriates "this average temperature in the hospital", in the industry in regions and territories ... there is nothing worse than average, average like gray, i.e. none at all.
  • Jerk
    Jerk 16 November 2019 13: 39 New
    -7
    And a sad evil joke: more than a modest growth of the Russian economy

    But if you look at the numbers, it turns out that, as it were, the Russian Federation ranks sixth in the world ranking, with GDP of 3,1% of the world, China (18,7%), USA (15,2%), India ( 7,7%), Japan (4,1%) and Germany (3,2%).

    Fsepropala-times - found.
    And Fsepropala-2 is even simpler:
    https://alex-leshy.livejournal.com/1414294.html
    Another master class on how provocateurs breed rabbits on barricades.

    And a flag IN for provocateurs on the site! There are opinions - but there is propaganda.
    1. Jerk
      Jerk 16 November 2019 17: 45 New
      -4
      If Zapolskis is still gouging OCTOBER 29, with links to fake sources and numbers, which leads to what they give out to VO now ... What is that section? "Opinions", then these "opinions" - are hidden from the training manual - that’s how propaganda works - it takes the same thing - and throws itself into all the portals that you can - audience coverage, "Lying repeated a thousand times - becomes true."
      This is absolutely the same as writing that they say the daughter of an officer, I live in Sevastopol, the Negro was less likely to burn there - I just forgot to remove the profile picture, and then everything is straightforward.
      PiSi: and judging by the number of minusers - I was right about the flag lol
    2. ZAV69
      ZAV69 17 November 2019 13: 02 New
      0
      Another master class on how provocateurs breed rabbits on barricades.

      Yes Yes. They tell us here that someone provides trillions of budget allocations. Oh how .... It turns out that those who produce oil and gas do not provide, and those who sign where they show and smartly puff out their cheeks. There are no words.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Living7111972
    Living7111972 16 November 2019 17: 01 New
    -1
    Medina is just smarter
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 16 November 2019 19: 28 New
    +4
    Fierce plus! The author raised an important question for arch. Moreover, it is discussed in labor collectives every Divine day!
    The process of charging and adequate wages is a huge cornerstone in the industry today.
    The first question from any specialist in OK of any enterprise is how much will you pay?
    On the example of our factory, from 40, or even 50 thousand, answer him.
    Yes, it's just some kind of holiday! Thinks comrade.
    Then he begins to work and comes the salary of 20 rubles.
    Comrades begin to attend thoughts, but how does it happen?!.
    And they begin to explain to you.
    Do you understand what business? With our organization of labor and supply, you will never earn such amounts. From the word at all.
    Now salaries have grown. I won’t lie. Apparently this is due to the call of Rostec. But how long is Karl?
  • serge siberian
    serge siberian 16 November 2019 20: 47 New
    +1
    Creative, creative thinking, according to Ozhegov’s dictionary, the 1959th edition (the year of publication can be wrong) is alien: alien thinking, alien. I brought it back to my memory. I read it myself back in 2007, when it became fashionable, this expression.
    And about the salary, it’s just to the point in the article. But it’s already started to decline in Gaster, now there are millions of them in our country, so we, the citizens of Russia are equal with them. And most of them have slavish thinking and behavior. Only when they’re throw "then howl. soldier
  • Private89
    Private89 16 November 2019 21: 37 New
    +6
    Power itself leads the country to revolution. We just have to remember the precepts of the October Revolution!
  • Erik
    Erik 16 November 2019 23: 39 New
    +1
    Have you made a noise? We disagree, are no longer suitable!))
  • Bear040
    Bear040 17 November 2019 04: 37 New
    +6
    The fact that officials and oligarchs in the Russian Federation snickered and lost all sorts of conscience long ago, and workers live at the level of prisoners of Nazi concentration camps has long been an open secret ... Now it is important to answer two eternal questions - Who is to blame? and what to do? And the fate of Russia and you, who do not have real estate in London, will depend on the correct answers to these questions ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 17 November 2019 06: 54 New
    +2
    We are talking about justice in wages. I’m prettier still those people who raise our industry. Because the media is spinning such money that employers did not even dream about. Those who explain to us how to live have palaces, fountains with lights But they don’t produce anything at all. Each person engaged in a cultural field has a connection with business. It is this that determines his line of thought. Production will continue to develop. But in the first place there will be sale and resale. I am more concerned that children's institutions are reinforced by police protection. This is never did not have. And there is nothing even to compare here with the past.
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  • prior
    prior 17 November 2019 10: 01 New
    +2
    Do not touch the salaries of directors and effective managers!
    Each of them works like a seven-headed octa!
  • 1536
    1536 17 November 2019 11: 02 New
    +3
    In Russia - capitalism. People with solid capital earned in the industries that these ministers represent, i.e. by profile, and honest work. The salary received from the state should not interest them, and should be minimal, in accordance with the competence of this specialist. But the rogues from managers, "kids", successfully ruined lads or "good men and aunts" should not go to the ministers for a long ruble, but do business if they are "great", show themselves, earn real money with their own labor, become an example. Quite often it’s not so. Hence the anger of the working people. Even office workers are already gritting their teeth quietly, forced to obey the orders of outspoken doctors, drunks or loafers who, by the will of fate, have fallen into leadership positions. The same applies to workshops in enterprises. In Soviet times, they tried to kick the sack out of production into the party and Soviet or trade union bodies. For which they paid. Not industry crashed, but it crashed from above. Therefore, of course, professionals, competent specialists who know how to captivate people should lead.
    And people of working specialties, highly qualified specialists, in my opinion, should get so much so as not to think about how and how to feed a family, where to live, what to teach children, how to care for elderly parents, etc. But this directly depends on the problem of professionalism and competence of people in management.
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  • seacap
    seacap 17 November 2019 12: 54 New
    +6
    In power, the same people who betrayed and killed their own power, organized the looting of their homeland, unprecedented in the history of mankind. A state created in the course of betrayal and coup, using fraud and crime to ensure the interests of a hostile power, will not and will not contribute to creative development all spheres of activity of society and the country, it is intended only for one purpose, solely profit.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 17 November 2019 17: 16 New
    +4
    Yes, simple workers are unnecessary for them, because they will cost them macaroni, and they need a vacation in the Canaries and a lot of money. After all, they work like this for the benefit of ordinary people and the country as much as one place in the soap. Well, judging by the results of this work, they have a place not on the Canaries, but on the bunks.
  • wooja
    wooja 17 November 2019 18: 34 New
    -2
    quite robust article, but very optimistic. There are many factors that are not taken into account by the author and which are silent in the comments, quite rightly, nobody needs problems ...., salaries are not an economic problem, but a social, political and national one. It will be a discovery for many - but the Soviet government ceased to exist in the 30s, and perestroika is the reincarnation of NEP, which was curtailed due to total theft and corruption ..., unfortunately, there was no one to turn perestroika into. The problem of salaries is not solvable in modern Russia ...., the state does not need a solution to this problem ... because its solution is not in the interests of the state, many residents of Russia are mistaken in considering the state apparatus as their ally ...., in this regard, Ukrainians deserve respect - with my sincere passion to serve ... no matter who.
  • private person
    private person 17 November 2019 18: 50 New
    +2
    During this time, real wages increased: in the USA by 30%, in Poland doubled, in China four times, but in Russia there is nothing to brag about, only dollar billionaires are more and more ...


    Golden words, there is something to be proud of for Russia. Joke.
    Everyone knows everything, but they cannot do anything in Russia, or rather, those who are obliged to do this. Only blah blah blah on TV.
  • Campanella
    Campanella 17 November 2019 21: 28 New
    +2
    And there is nothing to argue. Just as it is. A historic swing, so we hit the bottom or bottom ... maybe we will swim out, or maybe not.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 18 November 2019 00: 34 New
    +2
    "Minister Medinsky a month had 700.000 rubles, a locksmith indicated at the beginning of the note - 25.000. It seems that Medinsky is 28 times richer than a locksmith. You don’t! Wealth is what remains. A locksmith has at best a couple of thousand. And Medinsky without problems "he’ll leave half a million, which means he’s 250 times richer than a locksmith!"
    Deep conclusion.
    The good man Medinsky, a patriot, loves Russia.
    He lives within his means.
    He did not set such a salary for himself.
    But the mass of other officials lives as if they have been holding their posts for 1000 years.
    What are only one mansions of the head of the FIU!

    When calculating the average salary of bureaucrats, strangely enough, incomes and “seconded” structures are taken into account — all kinds of state unitary enterprises and state budgetary institutions.
    That is, cunning fans in one basket cult of Rosstat literally beggarly s / n dump cleaners, cooks, drivers, janitors dump.
    The result is that officials get a little more than a simple cleaning lady or driver!
    But this not all the truth.
    The quarterly and annual prizes of the bureaucratic fraternity are not yet taken into account - the subject is special and very pleasant.
    For a prize at the end of the year, a lower-level official can buy a domestic small car (Lada Grant for example), a middle-level official, for an annual award, can afford to buy a foreign car, etc.
    Here officials regularly ask for higher salaries, and mercy is condescending to them!
    They are being raised salaries, but all the other laborers are not! For four years now, all the employees of State Unitary Enterprises and State Budget Institutions serving the monstrously huge apparatus of the bureaucratic brotherhood, literally survive.


    About mansions:

  • Alex66
    Alex66 18 November 2019 05: 51 New
    0
    Everything is correct, but not for a system built on the exploitation of man by man. We adopted a wolf system, so what can we expect from wolves?
  • Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 18 November 2019 09: 28 New
    +1
    I've always been interested in the question of where and who prepares people who come to power for work. Let’s suppose a certain individual bought a car for his own money, a thief is not a thug, a normal Russian citizen. It would seem that your car sod and go wherever you want, but no, it’s impossible, this individual is required to take courses in driving a car so that he goes through a medical examination, who is sick while driving is dangerous for others. But who came to power and began to manage the distribution of vital goods, did he go through a medical examination? And courses to manage us?
  • Vladimir Vorushilin
    Vladimir Vorushilin 18 November 2019 09: 36 New
    0
    I am the author of the Golden Section economics theory. It describes how to combine the seemingly incompatible interests of bankers, workers, administrators and businessmen. Moreover, they will all undress for production, because it is in it that I fill the money with content - goods. If you want to know how to do this, contact: [email protected]
  • Radikal
    Radikal 18 November 2019 22: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Starover_Z
    To all officials, wherever they are listed - the average regional salary

    and to these cabbage rolls - how much?

    With your wishes they will cease broadcasting

    We will only be happy .... wassat
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 20 November 2019 14: 44 New
    0
    Over the 10 years since the 2008 of the year, GDP growth: the USA - 30%, Poland - 70%, China - 100%, Russia - all in tears.

    During this time, real wages increased: in the USA by 30%, in Poland doubled, in China four times, but in Russia there is nothing to brag about, only dollar billionaires are more and more ...


    You read, and it becomes scary ..
    It’s scary not from the numbers themselves, but from the hopelessness and awareness of the back of the guys from the Lake cooperative ..
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 20 November 2019 15: 01 New
    0
    All this is correct, but alas, alas, alas ...
    You can only swear, but influence in no way ...

    Maybe it's time to adopt Navalny’s methods? He has at least some result ...