Why in the 20 years a full-fledged Union State of Russia and Belarus did not appear

274

What we created 20 years ago


Few in Russia remember that very soon, on 8 of December of this year, a rather serious date will be celebrated in Russia and Belarus - the twentieth anniversary of the creation of the Union State. History the creation of this supranational entity is quite complicated. I will not describe all the events that took place over these 20 years and odd years. The story is complex and interesting.

In short, the Union State of Russia and Belarus is an attempt to create some kind of new formation of two independent states with a single political, economic, military, customs, currency legal, humanitarian and cultural space. An attempt to unite the fraternal Slavic peoples again. An attempt on the example of two states to push the third fraternal state - Ukraine - to unite.



What happened and what has not worked out so far in this attempt is a difficult question. This is a topic of quite a long discussion. But what events take place in connection with the approach of this date in a fraternal country is interesting. Moreover, in various media, up to the official government channels of electronic media, more and more often quite provocative materials appear.

Strange words "misunderstood" by us


Then President Lukashenko in an interview with Kazakh television will suddenly say that all the wars in which Belarusians participated are other people's wars and the neighbors are to blame for unleashing them. Directly referring to Russia. Why does it mean that I, as the grandson of the partisan of the Great Patriotic War, who beat the fascists in Belarus, just turns me on.

I knew my grandfather personally. And I know the history of their squad. It was my grandfather’s personal war against fascism! Then, a year later, a senior lieutenant from Moscow, the future chief of staff of the detachment and a sergeant-radio operator appeared. And my grandmother was shot precisely for this reason.

It was a war of Belarusians for their own land, for their own life. Like the war of all other peoples of the USSR. They fought for their small homeland, which was part of one large, common homeland for all.

That is, at the level of chief editors of very serious Belarusian publications, they talk about threats to Belarus from Russia on state television. Notice the threats! We are threatening Belarus.

That high-level statesman, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic Vladimir Makei directly accuses Russia of all mortal sins. which causes a rash in all those involved in international affairs.

What is happening in Belarus? Why does President Lukashenko make a clearly provocative statement about the war, and then his spokesman accuses Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev of “taking words out of context”? Why are there more and more calls on the Belarusian Internet to “put the presumptuous Russians in their place”?

What really happens in the information space of Belarus


Let's try to look at the situation without emotions and no offense. Just with the cold pragmatism of people from the outside. I apologize in advance for some associations and comparisons. The author’s cold head and lack of emotion does not imply a lack of emotion among readers.

In 1972, a movie on the then fashionable production theme was released on the screens of Soviet cinemas. It was called epic enough: "Man in his place." The film is about a young engineer who returned after graduating from the institute and working at the factory to his village and offered himself to the collective farm chairmen. The film is good, kind.

What am I in a serious article that I remembered the movie? Yes, simply because upon careful consideration, the algorithm of the hero Vladimir Menshov’s work (actor’s debut), collective farm chairman Semyon Bobrov, and Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko coincide to the smallest detail. And the role of a large and rich Russia is played by the hero of Armen Dzhigarkhanyan Artashes Kocharyan, director of the chemical plant.

Resist a chemical plant that can pay a large salary, can send a worker to study at a university, can simply provide a more comfortable life, Bobrov cannot. Therefore, he uses the director Kocharyan to solve his own problems. Where flattery, where direct blackmail, where reasoned calculations about mutual benefit, but uses. What is not Alexander Grigorievich?

Over the years, we have seen everything. And flattery, and blackmail, and seemingly random reservations, an example of which I cited above. All in order to save the "collective farm". To be at least equal in official papers with the "director of the chemical plant." The task of Lukashenko, as I see it, consists in this. Save Belarus in the status of an independent and independent state.

The first years after the creation of the Union State can be described as years of rapid growth and development. It is clear that President Lukashenko, realizing that Belarus is too small among the three Slavic republics, tried to get ahead of Ukraine and become Russia's best and most loyal friend. Equal to Ukraine, at least.

However, over time, it became clear that Ukraine is choosing a different path of development. Moreover, this did not happen during the last Maidan, but much earlier. The “collective farm chairman” realized that the “chemical plant” in the Union State had only one ally - Belarus. And you can ask “Kocharyan” anything. “Kocharyan” will already give so that the chairman of the neighboring collective farm sees how good it is to be friends with the “chemical plant”.

Of course, it is difficult to imagine that President Lukashenko played so “for a long time.” With all my good attitude towards this leader, it is difficult to suspect him of foresight. But then the question arises of the divergence of approaches to the Union State in Moscow and Minsk. Why has the transformation of views on SG already become apparent to everyone today?

We are just building a different Union State


It seems to me that the whole point is in the terms that we, Russians, and they, Belarusians, use. What is the Union State in Russian? I'm not talking about intermediate periods of formation, but about the outcome. About what should happen at the finish of this process. Any work, and the creation of the SG is a serious and difficult work of many people from both countries, must end with some kind of result.

So, the Union State in Russian is a single confederate state, with a single leadership and all the attributes of the state. To put it even easier, Belarus will have to become another constituent entity of the Russian Federation with a special status. A sort of Finland in the Russian Empire.

From the point of view of Belarus, the Union State is the newest form of supranational formation in which two or more states coexist and which conduct independent domestic and foreign policies. Moreover, the main word here is "independent." And this implies some consultation on foreign policy and the economy. Some benefits in some issues.

Remember the claims of Belarusians about our military operation in Syria? Regarding our assistance to the population of Donbass? And our "return" regarding fuel for Ukraine from Belarusian plants or MAZs with Ukrainian missile launchers in the Donbass?

Somehow, unobtrusively, inconspicuously for a simple layman, we began to count our money, which we spent on supporting Belarus. We are quite seriously talking about the tens of millions that Belarusians received during the “customs clearance” of our oil or our gas. We speak as a huge loss for our country.

Every day we laugh at Belarusian shrimp and other seafood. We laugh, although we understand that the brothers really need help. We laugh, although we understand that what Russia spends on maintaining the union state and Belarus is a minuscule in comparison with what would have been spent if Belarus left Russia.

Is the opposition so strong in Belarus and the opponents of the SG in Russia?


Today, the opposition in Belarus is raising its head higher and higher. More and more voices are heard in favor of the fact that the republic should go its own way. Not in the wake of Russia, but on its own. Encouraged by success in Ukraine, Western intelligence agencies are pouring huge amounts of money into the Belarusian opposition.

The usual scenario for post-Soviet countries is being played. National idea and national state. Independence from Russia and joining a friendly family of European nations. The West does not offer anything new for Belarusians in the hope that the Russian chance will work.

By the way, our liberals have intensified in the same way. The “accountants" that I mentioned above appeared from their submission. And the revisionists who, with a microscope, examine all the evidence of Belarusian officials, too. We are being pushed persistently to the idea that we contain a parasite. “We invest in them, and they are like Ukraine or the countries of the socialist community” ...

Relations between Russia and Belarus cannot be simple by definition. Although we are mentally close, fraternal countries, we are different. And the tasks of the leadership of our countries are similar. Improve people's lives and increase the country's political weight in world politics. This can be done only when it becomes possible to “tear out a piece” from others. Only here countries, I repeat, are different.

It seems to me that all these statements by opponents of the united state, which, as seasonal exacerbations of mentally ill people, periodically arise in the spring and autumn of each year in both states, are just on-duty testing of events for overseas sponsors of the “fighters for the happiness of the people” of Russia and Belarus.

How will we celebrate the round date


I think that new treaties, roadmaps and other intergovernmental agreements will nevertheless be signed at the celebration of the 20 anniversary of the Union State. Moreover, both presidents are already aware of the basic ideas of future documents and supported their signing. And the contradictions, which today are strongly promoted by the Belarusian media and heated by the opposition, will be quickly localized by the KGB of the republic.

I will return to the story of the film. More precisely, to one episode. A conversation between the chairman of the collective farm Bobrov and the director of the chemical plant Kocharyan on the construction of the road. When Bobrov is blackmailing Kocharyan in plain text.

“We will drag you through the courts because of the alienation of our land. Yes, we will eventually lose. But we still get our money. And you will lose time. ”


All the commotion, all the turbidity that has surfaced today in the press and speeches of politicians is nothing more than a conversation between Bobrov and Kocharyan at the level of the leaders of Russia and Belarus. Lukashenko today needs to adopt a more or less balanced budget. But in connection with Russia's actions in the field of oil and gas trade, Minsk’s profit fell sharply.

To meet the needs it is urgently necessary to “find” 500 million. This money used to come from nothing by “customs clearing” Russian oil or by selling products of cheap oil processing. In fact, Russia did not “notice” these manipulations with money. And suddenly, after very arrogant statements by some Belarusian politicians, she noticed and closed the shop.

Time will pass. The government will find a way out, that is, money. Most likely, the money will again be Russian. There will again be talk of friendship and the desire for integration. And again the cart gets stuck in some kind of pothole. In my opinion, in the near future the creation of a single state will not be legalized. For the simple reason that is described above.

We still differently understand the word "union" ...
274 comments
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  1. +27
    13 November 2019 05: 51
    So that "Russian" oligarchs do not rob Belarus?
    1. +7
      13 November 2019 06: 06
      What we created 20 years ago
      - What, what .... According to the unforgettable HOUR: We wanted the best, but it turned out as always!
      1. +2
        13 November 2019 06: 35
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        unforgettable HOUR

        Chernomyrdin Victor Stepanovich.
      2. +32
        13 November 2019 07: 19
        Everyone understands that of course you need to unite, but ... too much but.

        The fears of Belarusians can be understood.
        What will it be a merger or a takeover? Look at the Kremlin elite! Does anyone want to unite with them? And are the successes of the Russian economy dizzying enough to dream of unification? Some questions.

        And the most important thing. The Russian and Belarusian elites are so different that we can confidently say that there will be no unification soon.
        1. +17
          13 November 2019 09: 15
          The fears of Belarusians can be understood.
          What will it be a merger or a takeover? Look at the Kremlin elite! Does anyone want to unite with them? - Stas157 (Stas)

          I agree with you. Who wants to unite with today's Russia, under the leadership of the comprador oligarchy?
          Only small self-proclaimed states, which are threatened by an external threat from the former union republics, struck by nationalist fervor, and which, as they say, have nowhere to go.

          Belarus will unite with Russia, or even more so into Russia, is there no point? To lie under the "Russian" oligarchs, so that they destroy their industry, agriculture - for the sake of eliminating competitors to the West, and take everything offshore? To make the people poor and be without work, as in Russia? They don't need it.
          Now, when a nation state with a socially just system is reborn in Russia, the people will heal better than in Belarus and in the different Europes there, then the moment of unification will come, since we are still a single people.
          1. -1
            13 November 2019 09: 27
            [quote = vladimirZ] [quote] Now, when a nation state with a socially just system is revived in Russia, the people will heal better than in Belarus and in different Europe there, then the moment of unification will come, since we are still a single people. [/ quote ]
            That is, again: not together, united, to develop the economy and move towards a brighter future? And first, Russia must become rich, and then Belarus generously agree to join and participate in the acquired section?
            1. +13
              13 November 2019 09: 39
              That is, again: not together, united, to develop the economy and move towards a brighter future? And first, Russia must become rich, and then Belarus generously agree to join and participate in the acquired section? - Aldmit_2 (Dmitry A)

              No not like this. The moment of unification will come only when there will be a people’s state in Russia with a socially just system for the whole people, and not nowadays as a comprador-oligarchic, predatory in relation to the people and the state.
              And who else at the moment of unification will live better and richer Belarusians, or are we in Russia, another big question? The oligarchs and I, who are developing different "Syria" and "Africa" ​​to the detriment of Russia and the people, are already living worse than the Belarusians.
              And what will be the process of unification into Russia or together with Russia we will leave for discussion and consideration to those who will unite into a single state through an honest, lawful, popular referendum.
            2. +19
              13 November 2019 10: 04
              That is, again: not together, united, to develop the economy and move towards a brighter future? And first, Russia must become rich, and then Belarus generously agree to join and participate in the acquired section?

              Did you want something different in the capitalist world? Forget the phantom pains of pioneer youth: altruism is not held in high esteem now. The American way of life (consumer image) established itself in the world because it was attractive, understandable, and its bearer was sleek and prosperous. What can you say yourself, I emphasize YOURSELF, under the magic of this image, destroyed the country that you inherited from your parents. And what is the question for? For the sake of shining blue levi on the disc and having access to 300 varieties of sausage. They also called it loudly: "LIVE HUMAN". And after that, you demand that others suddenly abandon their mercantile interests in your address? And for what reason? Just because the moths suddenly bored you and wanted pure and sincere love. You know it will be worse than the notorious double standards.

              In general, continuing the analogy of gender relations, I would like to say that, personally for me (probably due to a sick fantasy, the process of forming a union state resembles a bride with an excessively zealous bride. It seems to be narrowed to her liking and she is not bad with him, but Zinka will have a better hahal - it would be a foreigner. On the other hand, no, no, and other thoughts are visited by a girl’s head: they say I love a fool, and they don’t look for good from good, but go and understand these bushmen, how they’re the first to climb under the hem, and how to get into a legal marriage - so bushes, and even with what tripper they can award. Does she need it?

              However, our bridegroom himself must be said good, in a word, I’ll have a lifetime: I will grab an accordion and bawl songs, then global projects will be decided, but the shed itself will not be cleaned and the cattle will be thin. By the way, she is not in a hurry to marry either, although she does not tick into the bushes and does not refuse feelings. Yes, from time to time it sometimes throws some money on my clothes, it means I want it to be narrowed no worse than everyone outside the outskirts. It means she is indifferent to him, and there is room for correction. Only here he himself, in addition to the girl’s camp, and the face, also has the moonshine of the future father-in-law in mind, which the narrowed guesses and reasonably asks the question: what is more important for him than vodka or relationships. Such here in general, as always ambiguous, lyubof.
              1. +1
                16 November 2019 13: 11
                Maybe enough to blame ordinary people in everything?

                8th of December 1991 Yeltsin, Shushkevich, Kravchuk

                25th of December 1991
                Gorbachev

                Where are ordinary people here?
            3. +10
              13 November 2019 10: 13
              Quote: Aldmit_2
              not together, united, to develop the economy and move towards a brighter future? AND Russia must become rich firstand then Belarus will generously agree

              Should not. There must be confidence that it will. But she is not. Now Belarus has a choice of development options, and when combined, it will no longer be. Therefore, you need to clearly know what will happen after the merger. Will there be development?
              1. -7
                13 November 2019 13: 37
                Which choice?! Nothing to choose from! Either get married, or stay a nasty old woman.
              2. +3
                16 November 2019 18: 54
                Development? Where is the development? What is the development? ... The debilitation of the population is developing rapidly, the crime rate is developing rapidly, the gap between the cunning rich and the working cattle is rapidly growing ...
                What can offer ,, Capitalist Russia ,, (RK) Belorussia (RB)? The standard of living in Belarus is higher, the population really feels that the authorities care about themselves, crime is lower .... there is a MEANING for the existence of this state.
                And the Republic of Kazakhstan is a little gray, weak, and most importantly - a meaningless state. Does it preserve the ideals of millennial Russia? NO. Does it take care of all its subjects? NO Does it fight crime, protecting people from degenerates? NO. Is it able to protect the country from external aggression? NO.
                Five years Novorossia communicated with the Republic of Kazakhstan. So what? ,, Strong, kind, smart older brother, demonstrated that he is exactly like that? Built roads, like in Russia ,,? The income level has grown and reached Moscow? Crowds of labor migrants from Ukraine besiege the checkpoint of New Russia? Monetary allowance in the, people's militia, such that the Syrians from the well-known PMC in large numbers in the military commissariats of New Russia?
                “Worthlessness” is the key word that defines the essence of the Republic of Kazakhstan. This is how homo sapiens is characterized, but this definition also applies to states - “neither God is a candle nor a damn poker”. Who wants to unite? Who needs this?
          2. -18
            13 November 2019 11: 10
            Here is an ordinary Belarusian live under this so-called. "comprador" elite 5 years old, very much want to unite with Russia. Because Russia now lives on an order of magnitude better than any former republic. Actually, Belarusians do this on an individual basis. It would be necessary to stir up the maidan in Minsk in order for the process to start quickly.

            Offshore companies in Russia covered up at the beginning of the 2000s, this is the first thing Putin did in general. Anyone who did not want to pay taxes to either London or the zone. But you still seem to live in 95.
            1. +11
              13 November 2019 14: 13
              Interesting fact. Even a dozen years ago, an influx of construction crews from the Republic of Belarus was observed in the Russian Federation. As well as from Ukraine, Moldova, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan.
              The latter, well, apart from Moldavians, still flood the expanses of our homeland,
              but Belarusians seriously diminished, why? But our pensioners in Belarus are quite grown up, too, why?
              Regarding Maidanchik in Minsk and its consequences, you want-act.
              Only then do not cry on the topic of ungrateful Belarusians, as it is now fashionable
              in regard to -they scum do not support us on the world stage.
              The only question is why are they obliged to support us? For the fact that loans with return
              give? Or all kinds of negotiations on the topic of lending every time rest against the question-
              and what will you give us for this? Note that at the same time, I drag two suitcases without a handle on the hump in the image of Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, subsidizing them every year
              and forgiving debts every year. Actually, a rather strange approach to Comrade Belarusians.
              It is clear that the ocean fleet of Belarus, along with their first-ever food industry in the world, has grown in the wake of our import substitution. But blaming them somehow is not comme il faut, in fact, it is customary for allies and especially partners in the CU to somehow coordinate their actions and even taking into account the interests of the partner. This, by the way, also applies to the policy regarding the ruble, otherwise the partnership turns out to be strange, one-sided . And if you declare that you have only the army and navy in your allies and implement your policy solely taking into account your interests, you should not assume that someone else will not adhere to exactly the same tactics regarding you.
              About the union state. Even in Yeltsin’s times, I think
              differences in approaches. Belarusians wanted equitable unification and naturally with
              in the same voice as part of the decisions made. Our elite wanted to unite through absorption, an example of Germany and the GDR in your hand.
              Actually, to some extent the situation with the union state and the behavior of the Belarusian elite is quite reminiscent of the situation with our elite trying to join the "friendly family" of the American-European elite.
              Our elite somehow did not like being second-rate, so why did you decide that the Belarusian elite should like it? By the way, leaving the Belarusians, look back to the southeast, to Kazakhstan. Do the changes that have happened there tell you nothing?
              1. -10
                13 November 2019 14: 19
                You are not catching up, no one in Russia will arrange any Maidan for you, you yourself will arrange it from your happy life following the example of the non-brothers, and in the same way you will bring down who have not had time in the Russian Federation. At the same time, make threatening statements to us that both with you after that and how to support you, we feed you, but you still do not support us. The question is, what is the difference to us then, if you don’t support us anyway? Equal unification happens only between equals, and not between the state and its small fragment, which should be just an administrative area, or even a municipality.
              2. -12
                13 November 2019 14: 33
                By the way, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, with all their felidism, are much more negotiable than Belarus. Well, at least they should not pretend to be non-Russians.
            2. -5
              13 November 2019 14: 14
              Quote: EvilLion
              Because Russia now lives an order of magnitude better than any former republic. Actually Belarusians do this individually.

              Totally agree with you. But this cannot be explained to these communists. They have a solid set of hackneyed stamps. Like brains, they are still in the 90s. The same points. Naro is a beggar, unemployment, oligarchs in power. This is hard to explain to people with a lack of brains. In such a poor country we live that they come from all over the former USSR to the Russian Federation.
              1. -7
                13 November 2019 16: 06
                Well, suppose the oligarchs are bad, the question is, how to do it well? In response, one whined that the power should be changed, and for whom should it be changed, and what should it do to make it feel good? This is where the thought ends, and, for example, I will not go to overthrow anyone until there is a clear understanding of what to do next. And the stupidity of local officials will only increase from replacing them, because those who know at least something will leave, those who do not know anything will come. The slogan "back to the USSR" will not work, since the USSR no longer exists and somehow reluctance to enter it, because in the USSR, for example, computers would be imported from abroad, because currency transactions are physical. persons were prohibited. Economically, the USSR ended when the ban was lifted. It was necessary in the 20s, but in modern times. the world will not give a ride. With all the Soviet pluses, you will have to get the Soviet minuses. And the huge army is the smallest among them.
                1. -1
                  14 November 2019 16: 29
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Well, let’s say that the oligarchs are bad, the question is, how to do well?

                  It is bad when they are in power, and in our country they are not in power, but in general there are oligarchs in all developed countries and even in the communist PRC.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  In response, there is one whining, that the power should be changed, and who should it be changed, and what should it do in order to become good?

                  Here I am talking about too. Power suits me, someone is not there, he should offer an alternative, not a coup. Like, let's throw it off, and then we'll see. But I don’t want to change to someone with empty promises that he will make heaven on earth.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  And the stupidity of local officials from their replacement will only increase

                  So there’s no one to replace. What will not take new bribes? So we will have any power under the kings, and under the emperors, and under the USSR, and under the Russian Federation. We have such a mentality. We complain that they take bribes, but we often want to give them ourselves so that the necessary solution or document is issued faster.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  With all the Soviet advantages, you will have to get the Soviet cons

                  The paradox is that many here shout that everything in state property should be, while crying that small and medium-sized businesses such as pressure. Right paradox. In fact, they steal most in the public sector. In the USSR, in the field of trade and factories, they stole millions of people across the country, managers of medium and small hands, with an average salary of 140 rubles. The Governor of Sakhalin is just a child compared to them. But it wasn’t very bad for an ordinary person from his theft, but from the theft and fraud of factory directors under the USSR how. An example see the movie Soviet Mafia Kings of the Sivuha. And this is all under their beloved Stalin, about whom they shout that there was no corruption.
                  1. +4
                    16 November 2019 16: 53
                    Do not confuse our oligarchs who stole factories from the people and the Chinese who earned their own labor. Under Stalin, there was a private business. I do not like our government because it cares about big business at the expense of the people and does not hold its own words. With your not-beloved advice, people knew when they would retire and how much they would receive, and now, for example, do you know?
                    1. -1
                      20 November 2019 09: 56
                      Quote: ss29
                      Do not confuse our oligarchs who stole factories from the people

                      ))) Yes, enough of these tales about the national economy. Straight people from the factories received something. Have you received any profit from these plants?
                      Quote: ss29
                      Chinese self-employed

                      What do you think is your own work?
                      Quote: ss29
                      I don’t like our government because it cares about big business at the expense of the people

                      Don’t you tell me how?
                      Quote: ss29
                      With your not beloved advice, people knew when they would retire and how much they would receive.

                      Where did I write that I do not like the Soviet Union? I regret that no reforms have been carried out in the Soviet Union on the model of the PRC. And it’s you Communists who are to blame for its collapse. And about pensions. Yes, people knew that they would retire and knew that they would receive a penny.
                      Quote: ss29
                      Now, for example, do you know?

                      Now everything can be perfectly calculated.
                  2. +2
                    17 November 2019 03: 22
                    Quote: Sergey1987
                    We have such a mentality.

                    Do not judge others by yourself.
            3. +8
              13 November 2019 14: 32
              Quote: EvilLion
              Because Russia now lives an order of magnitude better than any former republic.

              I would ask you to provide proofs, and not to indulge unproven!
              Quote: EvilLion
              Offshores in Russia covered up in the early 2000s, this is the first thing Putin did in general. Anyone who did not want to pay taxes to either London or the zone.

              What are you carrying? Only for the past 20 years on the official. 1 trillion (1.000.000.000) dollars are withdrawn from the data from the Russian Federation !!! And when
              his friend justifies the offshore accounts of the cellist by buying violins, then one wants to sob from the fact how the plebs can swallow this "blizzard".
              1. -7
                13 November 2019 15: 01
                Quote: Stroporez
                Only for the past 20 years on the official. 1 trillion (1.000.000.000) dollars are withdrawn from the data from the Russian Federation !!!

                Great phrase, #granite.

                1. What is this "official data", a reference, if you please.
                2. 1.000.000.000 is not a trillion, but a billion.
                3. "Withdrawn" is about nothing. The purchase of foreign assets, for example (which does not necessarily mean "an apartment in London") is also a "conclusion".

                Here you are at the time and ask:

                Quote: Stroporez
                What are you carrying?

                Well, it’s ... buddy wink
                1. +6
                  13 November 2019 15: 54
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  1. What is this "official data", a reference, if you please.

                  Pliz https://topwar.ru/163800-kuda-uhodjat-dengi-pokazateli-ottoka-kapitala-iz-rossii.html
                  This is the data of the Central Bank. And do not cling to zeros, in the heat of the moment and
                  described.
                  "Capital outflow is the export of money supply from a country to the borders of another state for a more profitable investment in more profitable economic instruments and mechanisms."
                  Among the main factors causing capital outflow from the Russian Federation are the following:

                  1. the lack of stability in the economy and politics of the Russian Federation. It should also be noted here the constantly worsening relations with other competing countries (USA, UK, etc.), from which there is a fairly significant flow of investment. For example, the situation in 2014 triggered the largest capital outflow of $ 150 billion;
                  2. Lack of trust in the Russian banking system. In 2008, the banking system was in crisis and many investors, entrepreneurs and individuals lost huge amounts of money in banks. After this crisis, banks have been recovering for several years. But during this period, the lost trust has not returned to its previous level;
                  3. Complicated taxes and the bureaucratic system of their accounting. In Russia, there are a very large number of different types of taxes that create great pressure on business. It is easier for entrepreneurs to go into the gray economy than to work in white;
                  4.weak judicial system. Entrepreneurs are poorly protected with the existing legal system. Which weakly stimulates foreign investors to invest their money here.
                  5. The inflation rate is high compared to other developed countries, which contributes to the depreciation of invested capital.
                  1. -4
                    13 November 2019 16: 40
                    You should speak in other words. As yours, as a rule, you get some kind of blizzard request
                    I will answer in the same style:


                    It is well explained where, when, why and how much.

                    Here's a picture (from the same place), pay attention to the so-called "dubious transactions" and their share in the total mass of "withdrawn" capital:



                    By the way, your source (1-2-3-4-5) - pleased with pearls of the type

                    ... lead to the closure of enterprises, to a reduction in tax revenues ...


                    , as well as a picture shamelessly distorted from "my" source request
                    1. +1
                      13 November 2019 17: 05
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      As a rule, you have some kind of snowstorm

                      With "blizzard" it is to a mustachioed blizzard Yes
                      For the rest, I will say this, your schedule is for the 11th year, and for the 18th year, the Central Bank gave data on the total export of 787 billion raccoons. According to the results of this, 850 are predicted. This is the official. data with which you agree. Let's add the subsidiaries of Rspilneft, Raspilneftegaz and Gasmyas offshore companies. And yet I would not discount the "cellists". a trillion was definitely stolen and taken out, so where am I wrong ?!
                      1. -3
                        13 November 2019 17: 20
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        so what am I wrong in ?!

                        So in the same:

                        Quote: Stroporez
                        for a trillion definitely stole and brought

                        You are confusing (and, IMHO, deliberately) "capital outflow" with that part of it, which in the picture I have designated as "dubious transactions".

                        Once again, maybe it will come: not everything that is "outflow" - steal and withdrawn.
                      2. 0
                        13 November 2019 17: 39
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Once again, maybe it will come: not everything that is "outflow" - steal and withdrawn.

                        Well, why do we need to drive empty, provided that everyone understands everything. A colleague, I have already taken such liberties by posting so many comments, realizing that soon adherents of mice, cats, sects, associations, trade unions and other scoundrels will fly and oralof, they will begin to spoil my karma. Colleague, I do not need this, I'm non-aligned Yes
                      3. 0
                        13 November 2019 17: 48
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Well, why do we need to drive empty

                        Are you capable of anything more? wink

                        Quote: Stroporez
                        provided that everyone understands everything

                        You can understand correctly or incorrectly. You are right so far - you don’t understand, but you understand it wrong request

                        Quote: Stroporez
                        ... begin to spoil my karma ...

                        ... and kick in the stern. Well, you yourself have chosen a share, there are few talkers in general who loves ... my friend Yes
                      4. -1
                        13 November 2019 18: 08
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        and kick in the stern. Well, you yourself have chosen a share, there are few talkers in general who loves ... my friend

                        Ah ha ha, well, this is how to look at these very talkers, front or back, everything is clear for me, transparent, understandable, I keep my promises and ask you to convey to various adherents that when they studied, I already taught fellow
                      5. -1
                        13 November 2019 18: 30
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Well, this is how to look at these most talkers, front to back or back to front

                        But no matter how you look at it - everything turns out the same ...

                        Quote: Stroporez
                        I keep my promises and ask to convey

                        Don’t ... carry it yourself. Shama, all shama ... buddies laughing
                    2. +3
                      16 November 2019 17: 00
                      Jack, are you talking about Uynyu for no outflow, look where our oligarchs and their passports live. For example, Mr. Rybolovlev lives in Monaco, and what do you think he leaves all the money from the income of the world's largest fertilizer plant in Perm?
              2. -8
                13 November 2019 15: 57
                What car do you prefer? "Kalina" no longer rolls, you need something from 800k go? Where do you prefer to rest? In Turkey, or maybe in Thailand. By the way, this is also an outflow of capital when you go abroad and lose money there.
                1. +4
                  13 November 2019 16: 25
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  What car do you prefer? "Kalina" no longer rolls, you need something from 800k go?

                  yellow guelder-rose and a pair of transporters of spare jaundices are runs for the chief technical officer laughing What's he got with Auris? By the way, he is just a Mercedes very much to love. Yeah. And I prefer "Japanese", Mitsuban or Toyota.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  In Turkey, or maybe in Thailand. By the way, this is also an outflow of capital when you dangle abroad and lower the loot there.

                  Yesterday, I had a conversation with friends, this summer they flew to Turkey for two weeks, four for three 4tyr, and I mean 65 to Crimea, when it has exceeded 12 (for some 70 payers), I I quit counting, so as not to hurt my psyche. And now I’m definitely returning to the Turkish coast or better, I fly to Egypt through the Belarusians 2,3, and I leave the patriotic Sochi-Anapo-Crimean-Armenian rest for the Putriots.
            4. +1
              13 November 2019 15: 57
              "Here is an ordinary Belarusian live under this so-called" comprador "elite"
              This is whom you mean. I have always been interested in who the elite and oligarchs in Belarus are.
            5. +6
              13 November 2019 16: 56
              Quote: EvilLion
              Here is an ordinary Belarusian live under this so-called. "comprador" elite 5 years old, very much want to unite with Russia.

              I am from Belarus. I have a friend (distant relative) who spends all her vacations with her grandmother in Russia. He is a patriot of Russia much more than the Republic, but against unification.
            6. +1
              17 November 2019 03: 16
              Quote: EvilLion
              Offshore companies in Russia covered up at the beginning of the 2000s, this is the first thing Putin did in general.

              Gee-gee. Blessed is he who believes. lol
          3. +5
            13 November 2019 11: 32
            vladimirZ! That's right, our leadership has reached such shamelessness that it exposes its weakness to the public. For example, our leader went to the Irkutsk region three times, saw the suffering of people there, and three times strictly ordered to provide for and equip everyone. They answer him Boo-done, but they themselves do not do a fig, they only write out bonuses for themselves. Our leader, instead of using the power, became carried away by secular life and toadying. He said that they were stealing during the construction of the cosmodrome. Rogozin answers him, "They don't steal, we have treasury escorts." As if it was impossible to steal with treasury escort. Someone wants to unite in such a situation?
            1. -7
              13 November 2019 11: 43
              In those cases when the orders are executed on time and in letter, or local authorities do not even wait for orders, immediately doing their job, that is, 99% of cases are not interesting to discuss. It’s better to speculate about how well he lives under the Grand Duke Rygorych in the absence of any economy other than Russian subsidies.
            2. +3
              13 November 2019 11: 49
              That's right, our leadership has come to such shamelessness that it exposes its weakness to the public. ... - mikh-korsakov (Mikhail)

              I don't agree with everything. The point is not in the "weakness of the leadership" exposed "to the public."
              All the trouble is in the inherent system of the capitalist liberal state, which gives rise to systemic embezzlement and corruption in the state, crises and the collapse of the economy, industry, agriculture, space, education, medicine, etc., etc. Putin, Medvedev, Shoigu, Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov - the situation will not change, it will be the same.
              As in the joke about the plumber who examined the decayed water supply system of the house: "It is useless to repair, THE SYSTEM IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE!".
              1. +7
                13 November 2019 12: 46
                Quote: vladimirZ
                All the trouble in the inherent system of the capitalist liberal state

                And if we dig even deeper, we will see that the root of evil is still in private ownership of the means of production. True, a certain K. Marx guessed this a long time ago and told everyone ... But so far, alas, the capitalists have managed to convince everyone that Marx was wrong, that Lenin is a "German spy", and Stalin is a "bloody tyrant" in general.
                Many are now struggling with the revision of the WWII and, in particular, the Second World War - and this is a very necessary thing, this is a just cause. But this is not enough. It is necessary to seriously review the process of the collapse of the USSR and its consequences. Then, perhaps, there will be shifts for the better.
              2. -9
                13 November 2019 14: 20
                The question may be, why in other capitalist countries the order from above is accepted to execute? Your capitalism is bad only in Russia, in other countries, which are more capitalistic at times, it does not bother you at all.
              3. +5
                13 November 2019 15: 03
                The popularly elected will definitely not change the system
            3. -3
              13 November 2019 14: 15
              https://youtu.be/GXz0iG82jOo
          4. -9
            13 November 2019 13: 19
            That's when a nation state with a socially just system will revive in Russia

            Then Belarusians would prefer to unite with the Poles rather than stand in queues for toilet paper.
          5. -6
            13 November 2019 13: 29
            There is no mention of mass poverty in Russia !! And scaring oligarchs is like scaring penguins: they seem to be there, but meeting them is very difficult.
          6. -3
            13 November 2019 14: 11
            Quote: vladimirZ
            To fall under the "Russian" oligarchs, so that they destroy their industry

            Who will destroy that there? Balabolite but what. What Zyuzin, Lisin or Mordashev destroyed their factories?
            Quote: vladimirZ
            s / economy - for the sake of eliminating competitors to the West

            But this is just nonsense. Why destroy agricultural RB? Buy I still understand.
            Quote: vladimirZ
            To the poor people and was without work, as in Russia?

            And then everything becomes clear. Your lack of gray matter. What do you grind at all? This is a poor people in the Russian Federation and without work?))))) You probably sit in the garbage dump and starve, and with this laptop write this nonsense ?!)))))
            Quote: vladimirZ
            That's when a nation state with a socially just system will revive in Russia

            )))))) This is probably when the Soviet Union was a people's state. Well, of course, this is why in Novocherkassk the hunger riot was probably raised in the 60s.
            1. +1
              17 November 2019 03: 29
              Quote: Sergey1987
              What Zyuzin, Lisin or Mordashev destroyed their factories?

              Mordashov’s Severstal OJSC is owned by Cypriot offshore companies AstroshineLtd (20%), LoranelLtd (20%) and RayglowLtd (10,9%).
              For example, Uralkali Rybolovlev and Mechel Zyuzin are registered in Cyprus, while Alfa Group companies are registered in Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the British Virgin Islands and Gibraltar.

              https://www.politforums.net/internal/1485705195.html
              1. +1
                18 November 2019 12: 06
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Quote: Sergey1987
                What Zyuzin, Lisin or Mordashev destroyed their factories?

                Mordashov’s Severstal OJSC is owned by Cypriot offshore companies AstroshineLtd (20%), LoranelLtd (20%) and RayglowLtd (10,9%).
                For example, Uralkali Rybolovlev and Mechel Zyuzin are registered in Cyprus, while Alfa Group companies are registered in Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the British Virgin Islands and Gibraltar.

                Oh my God. What nonsense. How does the fact that you wrote this refer to the fact that the passenger above claims that the oligarchs of the Russian Federation will destroy the industry of the Republic of Belarus?
                1. 0
                  18 November 2019 12: 12
                  Quote: Sergey1987
                  What kind of nonsense

                  Yes, in such a way that everyone will be taken offshore.
                  1. 0
                    19 November 2019 15: 02
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    Yes, in such a way that everyone will be taken offshore.

                    What is offshore and who will get it out? Plants? RB?
                    1. 0
                      19 November 2019 16: 33
                      Quote: Sergey1987
                      Factories? RB?

                      Exactly. Privatization, registration in an offshore, then a person with an iPhone arrives and says that there is no money in the budget, you are on top of it.
                      1. 0
                        20 November 2019 13: 19
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Exactly. Privatization, registration in an offshore, then a person with an iPhone arrives and says that there is no money in the budget, you are on top of it.

                        ))))) This is some kind of kindergarten.
                        1. If the company is registered in offshore - this does not mean that the plant and its workers do not pay a bunch of direct and indirect taxes.
                        2. If a company buys a factory, this does not mean that it will be destroyed.
                        3. The budget does not apply in any way and money is not allocated from it to a private factory.
                        4. Understand the topic before writing this nonsense at the high school level.
          7. +11
            13 November 2019 15: 53
            With your permission, I will supplement you. It is impossible to combine the state capitalism of the Republic of Belarus and the capitalism in the Russian Federation. The goals and interests are different. Belarus already has experience of such connections. Slavnefit bought part of the shares in the Mozyr Oil Refinery and immediately began to bankrupt the enterprise, Lukashenko intervened with a "golden share" and put things in order. Unimilk tried chemistry with dairies in Western Belarus, they also put them in order. Baumgartner was convicted of criminal offense with Belaruskali, was given a term, transferred to the Russian Federation, and released there. Gazprom also distinguished itself. There is a lot more to say.
          8. -3
            14 November 2019 06: 09
            Quote: vladimirZ
            people will heal better than in Belarus

            Those. Now people in Belarus live well, live well this way - did I understand you correctly? Have you ever been there (especially the last twenty years)?
            Quote: vladimirZ
            They don’t need it.

            What do they want? Just the Russian market and cheap resources, loans, and nuclear power plants, and nothing else is needed? In my hometown of Lipetsk, there was a tractor plant - or it, in general, MTZ had to support it! And in Russia, agriculture is so flooded - the demand would be good! The tractor was simple, cheap ... But no, it was necessary to buy "Belarus", who else could they sell in such quantities ...
            Quote: vladimirZ
            then the moment of unification will come

            Those. do you want to come to everything ready? Losers concept. Vaughn Kuchma in Kiev, too, was waiting for when the Kremlin would ask him with "worthy" offers ... did not wait. No matter how history repeats itself.
            However, I think these "Wishlist" do not apply to the majority of the people - these are the games of those in power.
        2. -15
          13 November 2019 10: 44
          This will be the absorption of Belarus by Russia. It is possible that with an eye on the year 2024. Then, in general, this whole company is sewn with white thread.
          But the author voices interesting theses.
          "To put it even easier, Belarus will have to become another subject of the Russian Federation with a special status."
          Like this. Peremptorily, decisively, shortly and clearly.
          Let us leave aside the difference in territories, population, etc. Imagine how the Kremlin would react if Russia were offered to become another region of Belarus?
          And how would the Russian people react to such a proposal?
          1. -5
            13 November 2019 11: 15
            The Kremlin would simply propose to unite proportionally, and not like MAZ and KAMAZ, so KAMAZ has many times more production, but for some reason they wanted an equal share in Minsk. This does not happen. By the way, is MAZ still alive there, or is it already without the Russian market?

            Actually this is from the category of claims ukrov to some Russian territories. You, damn it, were already in Russia and everything in it was including yours, right up to Kamchatka, but you separated.

            I predict that the old man will be given compensation in the end, in order to solve this problem without firing, and the Minsk Region will be in the Russian Federation again. And in it, as in the Crimea, Russian salaries and pensions.
            1. -13
              13 November 2019 11: 33
              I asked for a moment to leave alone the difference in territories, industrial potential, etc.
              I am interested in how an ordinary Belarusian will react after the news that his country was recognized as a subject of another state? How will an ordinary Russian react to such news?
              And you should not start the business with expansion. Like, I'm stronger! I have a more developed industry! I have more natural resources!
              Therefore, I will be the elder, and you will be at the beck and call.
              And, by the way, it is worth noting that the issue of the so-called association is not initiated by Belarus at all. This is constantly being done by Russia. What is already alarming Belarus. What is the interest of Russia here? In addition, it is clear, the year 2024 and the restructuring of the vertical of power? And what is the interest of Belarus?
              I agree with one thing: the old man is still killed, the strength breaks the straw. There is no reception against scrap.
              1. -4
                13 November 2019 11: 48
                Are you asking me? In the 1991 year, everyone was told that your country was no longer there, someone objected. So it’s better to ask yourself how the Minsk grandmothers will react when they see the new Russian pensions, they will tear apart all the opponents of the Minsk region in the Russian Federation in advance.

                In general, I believe that Russia has every right to the entire territory of the USSR, without any republics or anything else. All the Russian language, all to the Russian army, all Russian salaries and pensions, from all the same demand as from the Russians. And then they got used to live at the expense of the Russians.
                1. -5
                  13 November 2019 13: 11
                  It has every right, then ...
                  And on what basis?
                  Don't you think this smacks of Nazism?
                  There was such a nation. Aryan.
                  She considered herself above all. That she owns the whole world.
                  By the way, she finished badly in the 45th.
                2. -4
                  13 November 2019 13: 19
                  As for pensions, the gap between Belarus and Russia is not so astronomical. What should it be in theory, given the fact that Russia has the richest minerals in the world.
                  But in the higher echelons of the Belarusian government there is not as many dollar billionaires as in Russia. Moreover, the number of the latter is growing steadily, from year to year. And already densely occupied the front ranks of the Forbes list.
                  Do you think people in Belarus do not pay attention to such "little things"?
                3. +6
                  13 November 2019 13: 22
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  In general, I believe that Russia has every right to the entire territory of the USSR, without any republics or anything else. All the Russian language, all to the Russian army, all Russian salaries and pensions, from all the same demand as from the Russians. And then they got used to live at the expense of the Russians.

                  Do you want to make "non-brothers" out of your only ally? So that medicine, education, and science should also be destroyed in Belarus, how did we do it?
                4. -2
                  13 November 2019 13: 22
                  I propose a ride somewhere in Kazakhstan or Estonia, but in any former Soviet republic and offer them that.
                5. +1
                  13 November 2019 14: 28
                  Somewhere I already heard it. Stop feeding freeloaders? III, as they declared independence on their own! Yes, so they came up with a holiday, though in the future they shamefully camouflaged it. I don’t know how about the right to the entire territory of the USSR,
                  but at the expense of people, so read half of Central Asia is already here. And unlike the brothers of Ukrainians with Belarusians and other Russian-speaking people, they do not feel very bad. Moreover, one can say with extraordinary ease that they receive Russian citizenship. So, rather, on the remaining territory, we will get the same international of peoples than we can unite within the former borders.
                  By the way, again there will be an occasion to declare independence, now from autonomous republics.
                6. +1
                  16 November 2019 21: 17
                  And here to the point.
                7. 0
                  17 November 2019 03: 34
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  So better ask yourself how the Minsk grandmothers will react when they see the new Russian pensions,

                  I wonder how they will react when they see Russian utility bills.
              2. +3
                13 November 2019 13: 45
                Quote: Chit
                I am interested in how an ordinary Belarusian will react after the news that his country was recognized as a subject of another state?

                I’ll react like this - FINALLY ....)))) weaned ... to be honest, I personally have already tired of these swings between Europe and Russia ... then there he is laying the vector in the other direction ... then he won his own in the Second World War, his flowers and not St. George’s ribbon, then the neighbors imposed a war on him ... God blessed her ... when my grandfather fought in the partisans and then served in the Red Army until 47, he somehow did not separate himself from the Soviet man ... and now it turns out they fought themselves ... they won ... shame on her God for how he behaves ...
                1. +6
                  13 November 2019 16: 09
                  If you are curious, look at the photographs of the Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Minsk. Above it, the flag of the country that won the war, the flag of the USSR, develops, and on Poklonnaya Hill what?
              3. +1
                13 November 2019 16: 05
                "The dad is still finishing it, the force aches the straw. There is no reception against the scrap." No, they will not crush. Bow in matters of muddy eagle, experience.
          2. -2
            13 November 2019 13: 46
            Yes, another young lady on the offer may be in the face .... But you fear, be afraid - you will remain a lure.
        3. 0
          13 November 2019 13: 18
          The author's key mistake in understanding "we are different". In fact, we are one people. I am different from my wife, but together we are one family, we are one. And the older you are, the more you realize the importance of the family. And for little ones, even one mother is also a family. Belarus is small, you shouldn't puff up in vain. Only together with Russia, which has enough resources, can we live with dignity and dignity. Objectively, there is only one obstacle to this - the ambitions of the Belarusian leadership. Lukashenka's ambitions.
        4. +1
          13 November 2019 13: 23
          To belittle your country is ugly. This is not about love for specific politicians, but about the interests of one people in different countries.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. 0
        13 November 2019 17: 12
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        What we created 20 years ago
        - What, what .... According to the unforgettable HOUR: We wanted the best, but it turned out as always!

        The author of the immortal phrase is not PMC, but Pavlov ....
    2. +10
      13 November 2019 06: 27
      Yes, this is one of the theses of A. Lukashenko. And I agree with that. But! In A. Staver's article (unlike O. Yegorov's articles), everything is really clear. The actions of our "elites" (both in Belarus and in Russia ) will not allow the creation of a truly common state.
      1. +9
        13 November 2019 06: 39
        The same reason why the DNI and the LC are not united is corruption.
        1. +10
          13 November 2019 07: 02
          Not only and not so much. The author missed one very important point - personal power. In my opinion, for Lukoshenko, the desire to remain the sole ruler of Belarus initially overpowered the desire to make his republic richer and more developed. Lukoshenko is ready to go to some kind of formal union, like a single ruble, a single parliament, only on the condition that he remains the sole ruler of Belarus with absolute power. Or if he is sure that he will become, if not the first, then certainly not the second person of the union state. With EBN, he had every chance of it. Under Putin, for whom sole power also plays no less importance, this is no longer possible for him. Therefore, the unification under the current leaders can take place only on one condition - if there is a threat to power, as well as a threat to life, for Lukoshenko himself. When the opposition brings the factet to his ass ... e, as it used to be in Ukraine. Then Old Man will agree to a lot, if not all.
          1. +2
            13 November 2019 07: 17
            Quote: kjhg
            ... can take place only on one condition - if there is a threat to power, like a threat to life, for himself ...

            I believe that the maneuver will surprise you- Lukashenko, then the Union State will form with the EU
            1. +1
              13 November 2019 09: 18
              The EU still cannot form a Union State with Ukraine and has been organizing with Turkey for several decades ...
              1. +2
                13 November 2019 11: 44
                Quote: Less
                EU still cannot form Union State with Ukraine

                the EU's task is completed - the market is open, Ukraine is maximally cut off from the RF Poland has its own interest in Belarus, the ultimate goal is the same. Ask how Poland's "soft power" works in Belarus
                1. +3
                  13 November 2019 11: 50
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  the EU’s task has been completed - the market is open, Ukraine is torn from the Russian Federation to the maximum.

                  But has Ukraine itself benefited from this option?
                  1. -1
                    13 November 2019 12: 01
                    Quote: Less
                    But has Ukraine itself benefited from this option?

                    depending on who and how to evaluate
                    1. +2
                      13 November 2019 12: 19
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      depending on who and how to evaluate

                      From the point of view of a layman, an ordinary citizen, a patriot, not an extreme nationalist, from the point of view of a simple citizen who wants to live and work in his country.
                      1. -1
                        13 November 2019 13: 26
                        The salaries of programmers in non-capital Ukrainian cities (Lviv, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov, Odessa) are at or even higher than Moscow. And Moscow is the highest in Russia
                      2. +2
                        13 November 2019 13: 51
                        Quote: vitmih
                        Salaries of programmers

                        A good programmer is a piece of goods ... I don’t mean that I believe / do not believe you, it’s just that my question was a little, let's say, more extensive ...
                      3. -1
                        13 November 2019 14: 03
                        Quote: Less
                        From the point of view of a layman, an ordinary citizen, a patriot, not an extreme nationalist, from the point of view of a simple citizen who wants to live and work in his country.

                        but from the point of view of the ruling class? - On the contrary
                      4. +1
                        13 November 2019 14: 12
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        but from the point of view of the ruling class? - On the contrary

                        Is not a fact. The ruling class that made such a sharp turn to the West has almost completely changed. Now this "class" has a different composition. The population remained the same.
                      5. +2
                        13 November 2019 15: 43
                        Quote: Less
                        The ruling class, which allowed such a sharp turn to the West, was replaced almost completely

                        Do you mean Yanukovych or Kolomoisky?
                      6. +1
                        13 November 2019 15: 51
                        I asked you a very specific question above, and you already have a comment all around ... I don’t want to answer - no, but I'm not interested in pouring from empty to empty, Chesslovo.
                2. 0
                  13 November 2019 13: 47
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  Ask how Poland's "soft power" works in Belarus

                  please tell me, I’m living there and don’t know how it works ...
                  1. +3
                    13 November 2019 14: 08
                    Quote: exalibor
                    please tell me, I’m living there and don’t know how it works ...

                    For the winter semester of the academic year 18/19 (between September 1 and November 30, 2018), 3686 freshmen from Belarus entered Polish universities, the Polish Ministry of Education and Science answered.
                    For the summer semester of the same school year in Poland, there were a total of 6080 Belarusian students (with status as of August 1, 2019).
                    If we compare by years, the total number of Belarusian students in Poland has not stopped growing since 2012: 2344 people (in 2012), 3220 (in 2013), 3955 (in 2014), 4555 (in 2015), 5023 (in 2016), 5980 (in 2017), 7485 (in 2018). All data were calculated in the winter semesters of the indicated years.
                    Citizens of Belarus can receive education in Poland in two language programs:
                    Polish language: the cost of training is lower, but the graduate receives only one diploma in his hands - Polish;
                    English: higher tuition, which is offset by two diplomas - Polish and British.
                    Having a Polish or even a British diploma in their hands, university graduates can seek work in other countries, not only in Europe, but even in the USA.
                    Belarusians can apply for study not only in commercial, but also in state universities of the country. In most cases, tuition will be paid.
                    Free training in Poland for Belarusians is available subject to the following conditions:
                    Card availability
                    availability of a Pole Card;
                    passing competitive selection to a specific university;
                    compliance with the special requirements of a number of universities (the average mark of the certificate and the scores for entrance exams are not lower than the established minimum, successful passing the exam for knowledge of the Polish language).

                    In the academic year 2018/19, 4328 students from Belarus were enrolled in Russian universities - these are both state employees and paid students. Unlike Poland, this number of applicants remains at the same level in recent years: in the academic year 2017/18, 3581 people came from Belarus, in 2016/17 - 3891, in 2015/16 - 4863, in 2014/15 - 3594, in 2013/14 - 4296. The ratio of state employees to payers each year is approximately 1 to 3.
                    1. 0
                      13 November 2019 15: 23
                      In fact, this is how all European education is built. Their diplomas are valid not only in European countries, the USA, Israel, etc., but also in Russia. But Russian diplomas need to be confirmed. Other things being equal, if an applicant speaks the language, he will choose Europe, because the quality of education and the scientific base there are somewhat better.
                    2. 0
                      14 November 2019 17: 10
                      Quote: Silvestr

                      For the winter semester of the academic year 18/19 (between September 1 and November 30, 2018), 3686 freshmen from Belarus entered Polish universities, the Polish Ministry of Education and Science answered.

                      Well, let's go there because they don't see any prospects in other places ... and so what? Polish diplomas are quoted in Europe, but Russian and Belarusian ones are not ... they need to be confirmed ... do you think that if a Belarusian graduated from a higher educational institution in Poland, then he will definitely stay there for permanent residence? Poland is just a springboard to settle in Europe, but not in Poland itself ... yes, a lot of people leave for Europe, but this is not because Poland lures them, but because only there Belarusians can get affordable (not quality) European education with which you can then work and live in Europe and this is not a great merit of the Poles. For example, in Gomel, there are a lot of Kazakhs to study at the university of F. Skorina .... but this does not mean that the "soft power" of Belarus works in Kazakhstan ... they just can pay for their studies in our educational zeeds ... and I that I did not see a single one who remained for permanent residence with us ...
                3. 0
                  13 November 2019 16: 16
                  I add that the Russian media are helping them.
                4. -1
                  13 November 2019 17: 15
                  The EU’s task is not fully completed, the market is open, but only Ukrainian. And the EU was most interested in accessing the Russian market through Ukraine. ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. 0
            13 November 2019 16: 14
            You know, the Slavs had strength only when they united and the presence of a strong Leader, such is our story. Lukashenko appeared in Belarus in time, so Belarus is still alive, Luka will leave, there will be a kapets to the country.
      2. 0
        13 November 2019 07: 24
        As well as the actions of the Belarusian elites ... Truly, the Belarusian elites do not really need SG. In order not to lose their privileges and not go into the second tier, so to speak.
        1. +10
          13 November 2019 08: 34
          It's not about privileges. The current Belarusian elite is the future Belarusian Belarusian oligarchy. They want to convert their power into property, i.e. carry out privatization in Belarus. Today, only one thing prevents them from this - the presence of Lukashenko in power. But it is not eternal, and the elite understands this, and it is ready to wait ... Well, for the privatization in Belarus to be in favor of the local elite, they need independence not only from Russia, but also from anybody.
          1. +4
            13 November 2019 14: 53
            Well, the difference in approaches is obvious.
            The Belarusian elite wants to privatize everything in their favor according to our type.
            And ours wants to privatize exclusively in its own, disregarding the interests of Belarusians.
            1. 0
              13 November 2019 15: 04
              It makes sense that no one is going to reckon with the interests of Belarusians at all, neither the Belarusian elite, nor the Russian ... In the interests of the Belarusians themselves, leave everything as it is now ...
      3. -3
        13 November 2019 11: 17
        And what is Egorov wrong about? Is it that the existence of the Republic of Belarus as a separate state is economically pointless and now it is an incomprehensible entity that lives off at the Russian expense, but does not give anything in return? The very existence of the Republic of Belarus - this is theft, the region was stolen from Russia in order to plunder it.
        1. +2
          13 November 2019 15: 11
          Quote: EvilLion
          The very existence of Belarus - this is theft, the region was stolen from Russia to plunder it

          Well, let's say the region has not yet been plundered, unlike the rest of Russia ...
    3. -2
      13 November 2019 07: 12
      The crowd of Russian oligarchs will divide the field of bulbs and sharply a bag of chips will not be affordable for a simple giant ???? laughing
      1. 0
        13 November 2019 09: 03
        In addition to bulbs there are enough working, not stretched plants ...
        Yes, and toll roads can bring cash flows into the right pockets ...
        And animal husbandry will give a denyuzhku ...
        1. -6
          13 November 2019 11: 19
          And what does RB produce? In Soviet times, it was for the most part an assembly workshop; components were manufactured in other places. And MAZ, so we have KAMAZ, it has enough competitors, the MZKT is also a problem solved by purely engineering means.
          1. 0
            14 November 2019 15: 57
            What MTZ replace?
            How many tractors are there in Russia selling per year? And how many of them are MTZ?
    4. 0
      13 November 2019 07: 17
      Everything should be, and they are different from Belarus and Russia.
    5. +3
      13 November 2019 07: 47
      Capitalists can unite only when this union is beneficial to both ... If they still have not united, then someone is not profitable. I think there is no gain in this for Lukashenko.
      1. +6
        13 November 2019 13: 37
        Quote: Svarog
        If you still have not united, then someone is not profitable. I think there is no gain in this for Lukashenko.

        The fact is that Belarus, as a state, has a social character, and the Russian Federation is antisocial, therefore, at the moment, the union is not beneficial to the Belarusian people.
    6. 0
      13 November 2019 09: 45
      The unification will take place before Lukashenka leaves the leadership. He does not understand perfectly well that Belarus is waiting for the Ukrainian scenario after his departure. They won't let Belarus live a normal life. All this "throwing" to confuse Western observers. This is how I understand it, although I could be wrong. Time will tell soon.
    7. -4
      13 November 2019 10: 04
      why didn’t it appear? Putin wants to clean Belarus without any equal conditions just like the region of Russia, and Lukashenko does not want this, and therefore this state did not take place.
      Engineering and military industries are developing in Belarus, agricultural products processing yields are growing. Belarus is trading with all the light, and even electric buses are being delivered to Britain. Belarus is well known in the information space, but will it be part of Russia? Who knows what Smolensk or Belgorod regions are doing?
      1. -3
        13 November 2019 11: 22
        You can find out what mechanical engineering is developing in the Republic of Belarus if, for example, for several years I have not seen a single MAZ on Russian roads, and the army in the Republic of Belarus is regarded as a bunch of parasites, is not really funded and is simply not able to purchase anything from the military-industrial complex, even in those positions that are still alive through supplies to Russia.
        1. +6
          13 November 2019 12: 54
          and where are you in Russia further were MKAD?))
        2. -1
          13 November 2019 18: 05
          in Belarus there are no oligarchs. Belarus does not export money abroad, Russia contains the West and., as Zyuganov said, exports loot-TRILLION DOLLARS. Therefore, in such Russia, Belarus has nothing to do.
      2. 0
        13 November 2019 12: 27
        Half if not more enterprises are working at the warehouse and after a shortened working week, the food industry was a little flogged, otherwise it hurt a lot of all Belarusian palm trees, but it’s better to keep silent about Belgorod. One of the more less living regions
    8. -1
      13 November 2019 10: 07
      "Russian" oligarchs, to be more precise.
    9. +6
      13 November 2019 16: 14
      So that "Russian" oligarchs do not rob Belarus?

      Sorry for the immodest question: And there is something to rob?
      At that time, my Big Boss and part-time beloved son-in-law of P.P. Borodin said: “Luka went to this association only because they think that he will be allowed to participate in the Presidential elections in 2001, in which he expects to win and become President TOTAL of this union. Only hell will they let him do it! " laughing
  2. +23
    13 November 2019 05: 57
    Author minus the entire monitor. It may be enough to look for the guilty on the side. An oligarchic, liberal, bureaucratic, and corrupt Russia is just as dreaming of a Union. Yeah, don’t tell my smartphone.
    1. -7
      13 November 2019 06: 21
      I agree that the author is minus. The author does not understand the simple thing that the AHL's only real goal is to maintain personal power. There, probably, the children's complexes of the boy Sasha, who grew up by the bastard in the village, also play a role. In Belarus there is one oligarch whom the majority of the population cannot tolerate.
      And the relationship should be between countries "you are for me - I am for you", and not "mine is mine, but yours is ours."
      1. +4
        13 November 2019 12: 57
        how they fought so much for a single country!
        how they mastered the north and western Siberia, it’s for the good of one country!
        but how now it’s all for the money and in favor of a small handful of certain citizens!
    2. +16
      13 November 2019 06: 31
      I agree. From our side, too, there is no particular zeal in the creation of a union state. And, in fact, Lukashenka has there, as it is now fashionable to say, "a fragment of the USSR", while we have a pure oligarchocracy. How to combine opposites? Even for China, with its rapid economic growth, the "one country, two systems" formula does not work very well.
    3. 0
      13 November 2019 07: 25
      Like Belarus, it was outlined directly.
    4. -9
      13 November 2019 11: 24
      Of course, Russia is not very willing to feed these more, as long as it is not at least obliged to pay pensions to Belarusian pensioners. And the farther, the more motivation for the Russian Federation to consider Belarus only as a source of Russian-speaking migrants for permanent residence.
      1. +3
        13 November 2019 12: 01
        Do not say nonsense that we will feed Belarusian pensioners. They earned their own pensions. This must be recognized. As for the single state, we need to learn from the Germans, who first united, and after that, along the way, they began to solve the problems that this association entailed. At least, today there is no talk of breaking up again in Germany and the GDR. hi
        1. -2
          14 November 2019 18: 00
          Ask the East Germans: are they satisfied with the unification?
      2. 0
        13 November 2019 15: 28
        Judging by the presence of Belarusian products, they feed us, not we. Well, the quality of their products will be somehow higher
    5. +4
      13 November 2019 13: 44
      Quote: Gardamir
      An oligarchic, liberal, bureaucratic, and corrupt Russia is just as dreaming of a Union. Yeah, don’t tell my smartphone.

      That's just the same, and yes, because what we mistakenly call the state-vom, quite a dozen offshore allihators, for example, will be able to add forbes to themselves at the expense of the Republic of Belarus.
      And as soon as Russia becomes a normal social state with real goals, an adequate policy, the unification will happen very quickly.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +11
    13 November 2019 06: 13
    Why in the 20 years a full-fledged Union State of Russia and Belarus did not appear

    Patamushta!
    On what rotten basis should this allied state appear? To make it work for Moscow and the Russian oligarchs, attracting taxes of Belarusians? Stealing Russian officials of all levels, a corrupt judicial system that only decides what to do with the killers:

    It's amazing what kind of braces can connect such a union? If only National Unity Day? ... stop
    No! Rather, on the Day of the Great October Socialist Revolution ...
    Yes hi
    1. +17
      13 November 2019 06: 23
      a corrupt court system that only decides how to deal with killers:

      They stepped on a sore spot ...
      Olga Alisova was released, who crushed a 6-year-old boy in the courtyard.
      And so we live ... professors of higher educational institutions of Russia began to vividly show their spiritual level to the whole country without too much embarrassment about the reaction of society ... of course, Belarusians looking at all this do not have much desire to join the union state.
    2. -6
      13 November 2019 07: 32
      Are Belarusians sinless and fart with violets? Everywhere the same thing. From gifts in China to answers in Russia and bribes in Belarus. It is still necessary to understand where it is worse. It’s enough already when a monster is made from my Russia. At the same time, they do it unreasonably. Yes, not everything is good, but not everything is as bad as some would like. For many years now, at the household level and as the head of a small enterprise, I have not encountered corruption. Plin, arbitrariness of officials, plin corruption! Once again I say, the ideal is far, but not Hohland, and not Belarus, to some extent.
    3. -6
      13 November 2019 11: 25
      Do you think in Russia they want to feed the poor potato growers at the expense of taxes of Russians?
      1. +3
        13 November 2019 15: 18
        Quote: EvilLion
        Do you think in Russia they want to feed the poor potato growers at the expense of taxes of Russians?

        Well, after all, poor Syrians, Turks, Africans and Chechens are fed by the whole of Russia ... and then what is this antipathy?))))
      2. 0
        17 November 2019 03: 49
        Quote: EvilLion
        Do you think in Russia they want to feed the poor potato growers at the expense of taxes of Russians?

        And what for are we feeding the Georgian-Israelis?
  5. +15
    13 November 2019 06: 21
    But in connection with Russia's actions in the field of oil and gas trade, Minsk’s profit fell sharply.

    Let us, tell us how the incomes of Russians have risen in connection with the construction of new gas pipelines, an increase in the volume of oil and gas sales abroad, and as a result of effective actions in this field by Schroeder, Sechin, Miller and other "gray shareholders" who, in fact, have received a little less 50% of these components.
    So, perhaps, it was this receipt of income by Minsk that was primarily concerned about the sector of shareholders of the "National Heritage" of Russians, about whom television advertising has been broadcasting for so long and persistently? belay
    1. +10
      13 November 2019 06: 26
      It is necessary to put the father of the president of the union state, so that he put Ragozin on the East to work on the shovel for merit, for 10 years.
  6. +24
    13 November 2019 06: 22
    At that time, 20 years ago, I was there, in Belarus. And I remember well the opinion of ordinary Belarusians about the creation of this SG. Basically, it boiled down to the fact that "Russians must not be allowed here." They did not mean ordinary ordinary people, but representatives of large business in the Russian Federation. They, they say, have torn everything up in Russia and sold it for scrap - and we will have the same thing.
    Belarus is the only country in the post-Soviet space that has most fully preserved the Soviet legacy in terms of a social state. And the citizens of Belarus appreciate it. In any case, 20 years ago it was.
    You have to understand who would benefit from the final merger. The main beneficiaries, probably, will be the very "sharks of Russian business". I do not think that ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation will receive anything other than moral satisfaction from the realization that "we are together with brothers again." But ordinary Belarusians can seriously suffer from this - the collapse of existing enterprises, unemployment, etc. Do they need it?
    I think the process of unification has been delayed precisely for this reason - Belarusians do not want to lose what they have left of the USSR. Moreover, lose in favor of the oligarchs of Russia.
    1. +8
      13 November 2019 07: 16
      Quote: Polymer
      I think the process of unification has been delayed precisely for this reason - Belarusians do not want to lose what they have left of the USSR. Moreover, lose in favor of the oligarchs of Russia.

      I live in Gomel - believe me, little depends on the opinion of ordinary Belarusians .... so this is not our unwillingness to unite or unwillingness to lose something - these are the desires of those who are sitting upstairs ... I personally would have united for a long time, I still live in two countries half a year at home half a year in Russia ...
      1. +1
        13 November 2019 08: 23
        So if "two countries" - then it is clear that there are no objections. But are they the majority?
        And then, I rely on the arguments of twenty years ago - during this time, of course, something could change.
        I then lived in Vileyka, often had to be in Minsk and Molodechno.
        Yours! hi
        1. +3
          13 November 2019 13: 20
          of these, so far the majority ... but if 20-30 years pass, everything can change ... young people no longer remember the union, but begin to look at Europe more ...
      2. +4
        13 November 2019 17: 37
        My Belarusian youth is also so-home now only comes on vacation, occasionally! request
        Some went to Europe, some went to Russia to work, "with an eye" for permanent residence.
        They say that in Belarus they have nothing to catch, more or less high-paying jobs are not so many (and, basically, they are all in Minsk!), But for the usual (not according to Lukashenka's "beautiful Wishlist", but real!) Belarusian salary today's pragmatic young people do not want to "exist (as" most of their parents "do)!
        Young people who grew up after his death have a superficial knowledge about the Soviet Union, and they are not interested in it - they are in a hurry to live (according to the principle "everything and now!") And there is no nostalgia for "OUR past" - they will have their own!
        Membership in the Belarusian Republican Youth Union (in my opinion, a purely formal organization) did not carry any ideological burden during my studies, except perhaps for some individual "activists" it allowed them to stand out and "join" the power structures. The most "manipulated" by the authorities (as elsewhere in the post-Soviet space ?!) are Belarusian students and state employees.
        In Belarus, as well as in Ukraine (I can only guess about Russia and "extrapolate" according to the current Crimea smile ), the functionaries of the neocapitalist authorities, the opinion of most fellow citizens about the desired state system is absolutely NOT interesting (although the general attitude of the Belarusian authorities to their duties and to ordinary people is noticeably more responsible and better than in Ukraine! IMHO)!
    2. +4
      13 November 2019 10: 04
      So these are enterprises that, as you say, have not been torn apart and work thanks to the Russian Federation (and sharks of Russian business). Do you even think about where this state takes finance and what it makes ....
      1. +2
        13 November 2019 10: 19
        Mechanical engineering is very developed in Belarus. And this is not the merit of the "sharks of Russian business", this is not the profane legacy of the USSR.
        You know, I was quite young then, and on the generally accepted wave then, somehow in a private conversation I began to complain about hard life in Kazakhstan. And then we really had everything very, very bad. What did they tell me after listening carefully?
        - To rob, it is necessary to rob - then everything will be fine!
        After the third such answer, my desire to complain about life was forever gone. Thanks to the Belarusians! Very hardworking people.
        1. -4
          13 November 2019 20: 08
          do you even understand something in the state economy? although the question is rhetorical .. if you think you understand, (nothing personal) it is not at all. Before writing, on this subject, at least a little read about financially - economic indicators of this ter. education and think. Everything is in the public domain. I’ll tell you a secret, their work, nobody really needs anyone, and only the Russian Federation gives them a market so that they can partially shift the load on the maintenance of Belarus from the state. budget of the Russian Federation, on the shoulders of the Russians. Until you understand this, it is essentially impossible to discuss with you. and if they close the market (do not give loans, etc.) of the Russian Federation, because enough of them, it’s even scary to imagine what will be there ...
          1. +1
            13 November 2019 20: 38
            Quote: vitvit123
            Until you understand this, it’s impossible to essentially discuss with you

            Yes, in fact, there is no such desire from the word at all.
            ... We had such a production manager who told everyone and everyone "you are not good at our technologies", although his own knowledge was at the level of hardwood. And he spoke this way because he had nothing to say on the merits of the questions.
            1. -1
              14 November 2019 19: 28
              I will also tell you that Belarus is the largest debtor to Russia! Well, how can there be equal benefits? Constant injections from Russia! Has she now paid for the Su planes she received from us with money? Or maybe she paid for the nuclear power plant that our people are building, with our money? please answer directly ...
              We’ll also try to reason. How can Belarus make a lot of money? on tractors, mazes, potatoes ,,,? Who needs maz, except for the Russian market. most importantly, the euro market, America, and other developed countries where there is capital? He is not needed there! also on tractors! and potatoes with milk! I look forward to continuing.


              I wrote it to another person, but the same to you! please disprove essentially and without populism.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              14 November 2019 19: 35
              and I like your example. but in this matter everything is very primitive and with such considerations as yours, before there were a lot of people. Now many have changed their views. Well, how much can you write that Belarus is hard workers, concern for the neighbor, universal equality and brotherhood, etc. ? so far I ask you to essentially communicate, you again did not answer me at whose expense this territory education lives ... 7,5 billion dollars of Russia's debt makes you think. and they’re also talking about some kind of nuclear power plant ... it’s interesting at whose expense and whose specialists, if we discuss something else, I’ll bring a lot of work ...
            3. 0
              14 November 2019 19: 46
              and if they close the market (do not give loans, etc.) of the Russian Federation, because enough of them, it’s even scary to imagine what will be there...
              By the way, I outlined your wood in general terms! then why bite? essentially much better! I will wait for an answer.
          2. +1
            13 November 2019 22: 28
            I’ll tell you a secret, their work, nobody really needs anyone and only the Russian Federation gives them a market

            I’ll tell you a secret too. Belarus, due to circumstances prevailing since the USSR, is the assembly shop of the Union. And this workshop, thanks to the signed union agreement, has basically been preserved and is working. Cooperation with Russian enterprises gives work to Russians. The assembly shop will stop - you can imagine what will be there. So everything is mutually beneficial.
            1. +1
              14 November 2019 20: 00
              And as an example, if you stop the MAZ plant it may be more profitable, because there will be no competition for KAMAZ (do not write current about the quality of KAMAZ, about yamz engines .... those who assemble yamz - convert engines under kamaz). If you stop the tractor factory in Belarus, it will be beneficial to tractor manufacturers in the Russian Federation (and they are). We would not need them at all, because. This is a weak point of many states and it is better to give more of their market than Belarusians to feed .... I briefly described the situation to you, as an example .... otherwise you say it is mutually beneficial ...
              Waiting for an answer ...
              1. 0
                15 November 2019 14: 24
                And as an example, if you stop the MAZ plant it may be more profitable, because there will be no competition for KAMAZ

                Somehow not quite an example, in my opinion. Your plants operate both at MAZ and KAMAZ, etc. Our people will stop - where your plants will deliver what they delivered to Belarus means a reduction. But, in principle, capitalism. With the collapse of the Union in Russia, a lot of enterprises were bought abroad, privatized and then successfully bankrupted and collapsed, competition, however. So in this case: MTZ, MAZ competitors to KAMAZ, Russian tractor and others, therefore, Uralkali-Belaruskali, MAZ-KAMAZ did not take place. There was an attempt to bankrupt our enterprises; competitors are not needed. In the meantime, it’s mutually beneficial. I believe that this will continue to be so.
                1. 0
                  15 November 2019 14: 37
                  So, I tried to answer, but time seemed to drag out, everything was erased.
                2. 0
                  15 November 2019 16: 49
                  I can’t imagine your logical chain, in my opinion (and others covered it) and theoretically and practically MAZ and KamAZ are direct competitors! I do not know how to prove that 2 + 2 = 4 (although this can be proved). Ukraine stopped working with us, so we have a lot of work added and that’s good! This is an example! And Belarus, even near, in economics, did not stand with Ukraine .....
                  1. 0
                    17 November 2019 04: 04
                    Quote: vitvit123
                    Ukraine stopped working with us, so we have a lot of work added and that’s good!

                    As an employee of the ZiL branch, I’ll say that nifiga has not increased.
                    1. -1
                      17 November 2019 16: 35
                      And where does the ZIL? Not at all a competitor of either KAMAZ or MAZ ... and ZIL ALREADY died by the time of 2014. Why try to put pants over your head? ....
                      1. 0
                        17 November 2019 17: 14
                        Quote: vitvit123
                        and ZIL ALREADY died by the time of 2014.

                        And where does the 2014 year come from? Hundreds of enterprises were associated with ZIL, whose employees were left without work. In a similar situation, the US government saved Harley Davidson by imposing duties on Japanese motorcycles and issuing an interest-free loan. I wonder why a copy of the Stalin Plant, the First Automobile Plant, built by the USSR specialists in China, still lives and thrives under state administration? Only on it 120 thousand people work.
                      2. +1
                        18 November 2019 17: 12
                        What do you mean? You catch the essence of my comments? I wrote that Ukraine stopped making some positions with us; we had to do them ourselves! And my conclusion is that this is good! What does ZIL have to do with it .... Belarusians will stop supplying tractors ... it even becomes ridiculous ... I think Russia will survive, especially since I have already seen tractors produced in the Russian Federation for a long time.
                3. 0
                  15 November 2019 16: 51
                  And I also want to remind about loans, the market, nuclear power plants, etc. how does Belarus make money there? .... it's obvious how you can argue ...
          3. 0
            14 November 2019 23: 34
            Quote: vitvit123
            . I’ll tell you a secret, their work, nobody really needs

            Who decided that? Maybe people there are "superfluous"? Familiar reasoning.
            I will also tell you a secret - this "work" of today's economists is not needed by anyone, and for the majority it is also harmful. Yes, and this is not labor at all, but a parasitic existence - therefore in quotation marks.
            1. +1
              15 November 2019 16: 44
              It’s not interesting for people about who needs and who doesn’t. I just want them to live either at their own expense or in one country! Once again, nobody needs their work, they will never feed themselves! I agree about economists ... this comment of yours somehow does not carry a semantic load, regarding the beginning of communication.
            2. +1
              15 November 2019 16: 54
              What did they do with their labor? Maybe competitive products that are in demand in the EU, America and other developed countries? With these products do they earn their full living? Maybe they earned at that nuclear power plant? Or do they live at someone else's expense?
            3. +1
              15 November 2019 17: 04
              And I will wait for you to discuss the economic existence of this territorial entity? You "stung" me a little .... and I want to know how much you know about "wood"!
    3. -5
      13 November 2019 11: 28
      What do you have left there? Something is not going to you, but yours are running to us.
      1. -1
        13 November 2019 13: 03
        how the Russians go to work in Belarus)) -https: //finance.tut.by/news653068.html
        1. +2
          13 November 2019 13: 34
          Follow the link - pay attention to the numbers! On average 2500 people. - is this a "massive influx of labor migrants"?
          1. +1
            13 November 2019 14: 04
            and you pay attention to the numbers of Belarusians who left to earn money in Russia - almost 1: 1))
            and then the Russians go to work in Belarus - a fact! )
  7. +16
    13 November 2019 06: 23
    The author forgets the old truth that, “bread is the head of everything,” contemptuously calling Belarus a collective farm and the Old Man the collective farm chairman, apparently for some, the plastic porridge of kin-dza-dza is tastier and healthier than natural collective farm products. If Old Man was a sucker or a global liberal (hello to the Kremlin), Belarus would have long resembled huge Russian expanses with forested fields and devastated villages disappearing from the map of Russia at an alarming rate .. I wonder what locusts tried so hard and whether Belarus needed it . winked
    1. -5
      13 November 2019 11: 35
      In the Russian Federation, the level of agricultural production is approximately at the level of the RSFSR at the end of the Union, Russia is breaking records for wheat exports with smaller sown areas and 4 times less equipment. Why? The development of agricultural technology, the liquidation of collective farms, which Khrushchev virtually ruined by liquidating the MTS, is now built on agricultural Russia by large agricultural holdings that use the Stalinist policy of technical support at the expense of large enterprises that either allow you to rent machinery, either plow themselves, or the agricultural holding can create the most powerful MTS inside. Perhaps in the USSR in the 60s it was necessary to switch from collective farms, which are no larger than a powerful American farm, to larger formations, as the next stage of agricultural development. But Khrushchev did the exact opposite, atomizing them by transferring technology.

      As for incomprehensible fields with scanty yields, then, as it were, the gift of such happiness is not necessary.
      1. +3
        13 November 2019 15: 13
        Question. How much grain does the Russian Federation supply in the framework of cooperation in the former southern republics? How much grain is supplied free of charge (that is, for nothing) to adhering countries? I won’t be on the topic of Khrushchev, etc. But, under long-term agreements, the USSR was forced to purchase crops from foreign producers, even in conditions of high yields. And yet, are you really sure that the purchased grain came to the USSR in large quantities?
      2. +1
        14 November 2019 08: 24
        Grain export is organized at the expense of ditched livestock.
        To grow grain - 50 people per 10 hectares of sown area! (this is with office !!!)
        A poultry farm with a cycle of 39 days and imported eggs for an incubator ...
        Lift up the old statistical directories and see:
        "Meat - ...
        Poultry - ... "
        And do not mix these concepts! Different quality, production time and payback!
      3. +1
        17 November 2019 04: 12
        Quote: EvilLion
        Russia is breaking records for wheat exports with smaller sown areas and 4 times less equipment. Why?

        Yes, do not disgrace you. Increase in grain collection due to a decrease in class. Everything is simple - lower grain class, more collection.
  8. +18
    13 November 2019 06: 34
    Why didn’t a full Union State of Russia and Belarus appear in 20 years?

    The answer is simple: Capitalism is a rotten basis for unification.
    1. +2
      13 November 2019 08: 32
      I would say this: "Rotten capitalism is a rotten basis for unification."
    2. -5
      13 November 2019 11: 36
      A rotten Belarusian feudalism?
      1. +1
        13 November 2019 12: 13
        In Belarus, too, capitalism.
        1. -6
          13 November 2019 14: 22
          Nooo, they rolled back to a personal principality, that is, there feudalism, as it is.
          1. +1
            13 November 2019 14: 53
            Labor and capital markets suddenly disappeared? Belarusians assigned to a particular feudal lord, or are they still hired? I think the second.

            Most likely, you have some kind of feudalism of your own, invented.
  9. +8
    13 November 2019 06: 36
    The "patient" has long been dead. If the Kremlin had a desire to revive the union state (and not only with the Republic of Belarus), it would have done it long ago. But these people have completely different interests.
    RF - not Prussia, and now - not 1871. In other cases, the "gathering of lands" took place without the obvious pleasure of the republics. Therefore, waiting for Lukashenka's consent to the Union is simply absurd.
  10. -10
    13 November 2019 06: 49
    Here, many scold who Vladimir Vladimirovich, who Alexander Grigoryevich, they say, poorly combined. And I will praise. Honestly, I rarely manage to praise Vladimir Vladimirovich, but when I earned it, I am always ready.

    If anyone remembers the end of the 90s, then Alexander Grigoryevich could well see Monomakh’s cap in some variants. But the minimum he agrees to is, figuratively speaking, the status of Ramzan. The status of Ramzan, in addition to money from Allah, involves a little bit of his army. A perfectly reasonable desire: either siloviki are afraid of you, or you are afraid of silovikov.

    However, it is difficult to argue that the two Ramzans, with all due respect, are somehow too much for Russia alone. Good, as they say, little by little. So correctly Vladimir Vladimirovich shook up this whole thing.
  11. -1
    13 November 2019 06: 50
    "Take an example from the Belarusians. The Belarusians do not ask what the Motherland can do for them - they ask themselves what Russia can do for their Motherland."
  12. +16
    13 November 2019 07: 05
    We are just building a different Union State
    That's right, here we need to separate the sheep from the goats, that is, in fact, the socialist model of the economy in Belarus, and our oligarch brothers, under whom the same ZIL was destroyed in Moscow, and throughout Russia they continue to reduce and "optimize" everything, selling raw materials and Soviet military developments. Belarus does not have such a margin of safety for collapse and degradation as Russia does.

    The impression is that the article is another justification for our power, again Lukashenka is to blame for everything, like, he says something, does something. What did we say? Did you say that the retirement age will not rise while Putin is president? They spoke, but raised them. Did you say that they would never recognize the Bandera government in Ukraine after the anti-constitutional coup? They spoke, but recognized the elections held by the junta, and it turns out that this power itself should have cost Didier Burkhalter to visit Moscow and make it clear where and who has the treasures of our "elite". Did you say that "let them just try" in Donbass? They said they tried, Russians are still being killed there, but we pretend that this is not our business, different "talking heads" justify and explain how cleverly this conflict solved the problem of Ukraine's membership in NATO ...
    Yes, they took Crimea, having lost all of Ukraine, made a splash out of defeat, extravaganza, even a monstrous crime in Odessa was swallowed, leaving all the Russians to justify their failure.

    What to blame now on Belarus? We are hindered by the dependence of the Russian "elite" on the West, the dependence of our capitalist power on the masters of the world capitalist system, into which Russia climbed, picking up capitalism from the dustbin of history, obeying laws and rules, not for the good of the colonies invented. That's the whole story. The people's power, socialism, will return, we will have a union state, we will live happily, but for now we have to "wrap our fur coat in panties."
    1. -6
      13 November 2019 11: 40
      There was no Crimea, it was not clear where the fleet should be removed. There is Crimea, the rest of the impoverished outskirts is separated by LDNR, only an abnormal person can call one of Russia's greatest victories in 1000 years, with so little investment, defeat.

      Talking about some kind of loss of Ukraine, which fundamentally positions itself as non-Russia, ignoring even its own economic interests, is pointless. You cannot lose what was not yours.
      1. +10
        13 November 2019 12: 21
        Quote: EvilLion
        There was no Crimea, it was not clear where the fleet should be removed.
        "Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti" ("The enemy will not drive us out"), this is the motto on the coat of arms of Gibraltar, in which the British settled, despite all the protests of Spain. These colonialists are not going anywhere and the Spaniards cannot drive them out, although they have turned off everything that is possible and impossible for them, the Britons are sitting in their base. No one would have kicked our fleet out of the Crimea, well, if they themselves, as from Eastern Europe, had not fled, abandoning airfields and military towns, Crimea would have been ours.

        This is not even the point, Crimea was taken, it was also impossible to take it, they did not take all of Ukraine (together with Crimea). In general, the entire southeast of Ukraine was for Russia, waiting for help, giving signals, but our government was inactive. The United States cared about Ukraine, but our government does not have a type? The States had a stigma in fluff, everything was sewn with white threads, the organization of an anti-constitutional coup was evident, but Russia was to blame, it was not against the United States that sanctions began, although according to all norms of international law, the United States is the organizer of the coup, and any actions of Russia to return legal the authorities to the legitimate Yanukovych would be legitimate and justified. Ukraine, a member of the CIS, a state bordering with us, we were tied by economic and family ties, this is an archival territory, a zone of our national interests, there is nowhere more important. Yanukovych and Azarov were with us, why didn’t they tell the junta that you were nobody and to call you? No, but they quickly filmed a video with anguish ("Putin, bring in the troops"), a kind of propaganda, explaining in this cartoon why Russia should not send troops (NATO is just waiting for this, they say). There was no need to bring in the troops, why did they recognize the Bandera elections? They chewed the snot, trampled on, then began to justify the "cunning move", to sing hosannas for the capture of the Crimea.

        You can’t lose what you don’t have ... This is not about us, Ukraine was ours, but it was pumped, exchanged for the safety of the junk of our "elite", in other people's banks and foreign currency, but they were afraid for the pipe. Although, it is precisely the protection of the pipeline, the uninterrupted supply of gas to Europe, and could be an additional reason to intervene. It is just now that anti-Russia will be molded from Ukraine, and this is also a "merit" of our dependent policy, from the masters of the world capitalist system.
        1. -7
          13 November 2019 14: 32
          I don’t care what is in Gibraltar, and mentally ill people who consider themselves non-Russians should have prayed to the Navy in Sevastopol, because he would have protected them, but they are sick, they don’t understand. It is useless to communicate with them in the language of logic, and the Kremlin understood this very well. And in Novorossiysk the port was deepened, because if the horses didn’t want to renew the contract, they would have to either fight or get out.

          As for a kindred state, if a relative is hysterical that he does not know, then it is impossible to communicate with him normally. At the end of last year, my cousin brother, 20 years old, was left an orphan at the end of last year, I still don’t have a mind, recently he "distinguished himself" by stealing without a license and breaking the car of his older sister who lived. I got off with 10 days, about my sister, I think there is no need to explain, I gave a stick. But if you think about it, it may be for the better, and it will specifically correct the brains, but before that I went and ponted. And the only way to bring non-brothers to their senses is through pain and suffering. Until they understand that they are Russians, and not Austrian outskirts, who in Europe are already held for Roma, and in Poland they do not even consider people, it is useless to talk to them and rub in something about brotherhood. You will not hold your brother if he foolishly says that he is feeling bad with you and he is packing his bags.
  13. +8
    13 November 2019 07: 18
    For unification, ideological "braces" are needed, but they are? ... They are not there, so they are shaking in ideology in different directions, that Belarus, that Russia ... A simple example ... In Belarus, they celebrate on November 7, in Russia there , we have another holiday now on November 4 ... Even on the celebration of May 9, we disagree in the attributes ... The rest is no longer worth talking about ...
  14. +5
    13 November 2019 07: 23
    Quote: Guards turn
    "Take an example from the Belarusians. The Belarusians do not ask what the Motherland can do for them - they ask themselves what Russia can do for their Motherland."

    do not talk rubbish ... Belarusians do not ask anyone about anything ... they live on their own and the state itself ... and, in principle, like you and ordinary people, they don’t give a damn about the state ... and that money which Russia allocates for us ... it’s not up to us ... nifiga doesn’t reach ordinary people ... take at least the gas that Russia supplies to us at reduced prices ... it costs the population 2 times more, that is, at world prices. .. where do you think the difference goes? And so in all directions ... they are tearing the last skin from the population, and raising the salaries of officials and security officials ... Doesn’t it remind you of anything? So Russia subsidizes the regime, not the Belarusians ...
    1. +3
      13 November 2019 15: 54
      So it was with us in Ukraine, when their accomplices from Russia supplied the local klept authorities with natural gas "for the population" at a discounted price of $ 50 per 1000 cubic meters, and Kiev "brothers" in power resold this "discounted gas" to the Ukrainian population at "atomic prices" , and the resulting "fat" was shared with the Kremlin "brothers", who thereby subsidized the Russophobic Kiev "regime" -Washington (moreover, the Americans themselves allocated-lent only 5 billion "green rubles" for it, and the remaining tens of billions for this megarusophobic "project "So it turns out, the Russian government itself has allocated and donated ?!)" Anti-Russia project!

      I remember negatively the "guss" ambassador - "gas worker (formerly" Basayev's negotiator ")", surprisingly not only the Russian part of the Ukrainian population, "passionately" who was friends with the ukroprezik - "writer" of the racist libel "Ukraine is not Russia!" not even out of simple "friendly interest", but professionally "for work"!) and did not leaf through the vile Russophobic "programmatic work" of his red-haired "sidekick" ("... my old friend Leonid and I are former" red directors "and former "premieres", so we understand each other well .... "??!).
      About the allegedly "plenipotentiary" representing the interests of Russia in Ukraine "non-Russian" friend and business partner of the "future" Maidan prezik "-Russophobe Giblets, victimly and completely unrequitedly" swallowing "all the banderonationalist d ... and to say, she was completely bewildered by the adequate Ukrainian population about the sobriety and sanity of the Russian leadership, which appointed such (retrospectively failed ?!) country for Russia ??!

      By the way, the respected author did not mention an important nuance about the project of the Union State - the LAS was so active in promoting the Union Treaty - it was downright an "energizer of the project" because in those years it was very popular "among the people" not only in Belarus and Ukraine, but in Russia too, he often, in a presidential manner, even visited the Russian "outback" and behaved there quite "at home"!
      So, the general leadership of the Union State of Russia and Belarus, given (which has already become obvious to all-sighted and blind!) The incapacity of his elderly and sick Russian colleague, allowed Lukashenko de facto to advance to the First Role in this "duumvirate" and, over time, try to single-handedly lead the SG!
      But these very, very "motivating", pragmatic "layouts" of the LAS, less than a month later, were violated, and then (according to the results of the Russian presidential elections in 2000) and completely destroyed by the "New Year's surprise" EBNa!
      To say that LAS was then simply upset is to say nothing, in those "annoying days" he even "slept from his face" - leaned in front of his eyes! IMHO
      With the strengthening of VVPutin in his presidential incarnation, the "union enthusiasm" of the Belarusian "Father" also faded in direct proportion - this was very noticeable from the outside!
  15. +4
    13 November 2019 07: 28
    We still differently understand the word "union" ...
    Probably it is. Lukashenko understands this as Russia's obligation to finance Belarus (preferences, loans ...) and at the same time "not interfere" in its affairs and steadfastly endure his verbal diarrhea and attacks in our direction. We understand differently.
  16. 0
    13 November 2019 07: 39
    On the occasion of the anniversary, another portion of the chatter will be poured about that "work is underway, there is progress, everything will be fine," but in reality there will be no unification, since The old man will never exchange absolute power in his small principality for any prospects. And the Belarusian oligarchs, who have long learned its rules of the game, will never want to be absorbed by the Russian ones.
  17. +2
    13 November 2019 07: 42
    How will we celebrate the round date

    And what to note that they have not quarreled yet completely?
  18. +3
    13 November 2019 07: 55
    If you unite Russia and this territorial entity, then Lukashenka will cease to be president! That's the whole secret. Hence the terrible Russian oligarchs who simply cannot sleep from such "assets". In reality, Russians, like any others, buy what they think is necessary in Belarus too, but many probably do not understand this.
    1. -5
      13 November 2019 09: 13
      Have you already bought MAZ, MZKT and MTZ?
      Or did you stop your PCM combine?
      Or some tractor in the Russian Federation resuscitated?
  19. -5
    13 November 2019 08: 08
    Old Man all his time in power, educates the Belarusian youth, setting it against Russia. He feeds the cookie from nuland and assures everyone that the parasitic lifestyle of Belarus, on the neck of Russians and all of Russia, is right and absolutely normal! What kind of alliance can we talk about? Belarus still has not recognized the Russian Crimea! It's time to tighten Lukashenko’s nuts and remove Belarus from his neck!
    1. +3
      13 November 2019 10: 04
      Have you seen that Papa Kolya does all this?
      I have a couple of nephews in Belarus who have grown up and have never heard of anything like this. Yes, and I myself have not seen any changes in attitude towards Russians in Belarus ...
      And try to drive around Naroch, where there are a lot of sanatoriums. So there and a car with RB plates is less common than with Russian ones. And they don't say "Come in large numbers here."
      And no one kicks higher education into the Belarusian language.
      1. -1
        13 November 2019 11: 41
        It is a fact that over the past few years the activity of nationalists in Belarus has intensified. And all this is happening with the support or connivance of Lukashenka's government. The obsession with replacing the Russian language with "mova" in schools, Father's pearl about the Second World War, the attitude towards the St. George ribbon and the immortal regiment are just some examples. Although at the household level, perhaps the changes are not so noticeable ...
        1. +3
          13 November 2019 15: 38
          Quote: Tzar
          The fact that over the past few years the activity of nationalists in Belarus has intensified is a fact. And all this goes with the support or connivance of Lukashenko’s authorities
          well, rather connivance ... he is weakening ... losing power slowly ...

          Quote: Tzar
          The obsession with replacing the Russian language with "movoy" in schools

          there is no replacement in schools for mov))) I have two children studying at school ... they learn Belarusian along with Russian and do not always even understand what they speak Belarusian ... even the number of hours of the Russian language per week is more than Belarusian ... .and why then tell these tales about replacing the Russian language with a national one?

          Quote: Tzar
          Old Man about WWII

          Wow ... I agree to hear it myself ...


          Quote: Tzar
          attitude to St. George ribbon

          it’s normal ... no one forbids ... but why did I introduce this green bullshit I don’t understand either ...
      2. 0
        17 November 2019 09: 24
        Dad, if your insolent in the end. Maybe you do not agree that Belarus will hit Russia’s neck? Due to what does Belarus live in general? Families where instead of good morning they immediately shout that they will go to another if they don’t give money for tsatsk, break up. And most often, that part of it that was constantly not happy and lived at the expense of the other, ended up under the fence. Would you like to join Ukraine and its fermentation on a deep anus? I also have relatives in Belarus, and it is they who say that mostly young people support their father if they can easily start jumping, especially since your father brings Belarus to this.
    2. +2
      13 November 2019 15: 32
      Quote: Chingachguk
      Old Man all his time in power, educates the Belarusian youth, setting it against Russia. He feeds the cookie from nuland and assures everyone that the parasitic lifestyle of Belarus, on the neck of Russians and all of Russia, is right and absolutely normal!

      complete nonsense ... !!! where did you see such agitation going on? it’s just that the Belarusian Popular Front and other riffraff fiercely hates Russia, I just tried to communicate with them to understand them, why they do not like Russia and what did it do to them? Well this is impenetrable people !!! and Old Man incidentally spread rot them and not grows ...
  20. +1
    13 November 2019 08: 19
    Those who hold power will never, of their own free will, give up power. Who will drive in the union state, Moscow or Minsk? Which of them will voluntarily give up leadership in a smaller piece of territory in exchange for submission to a large one? I myself will answer - no one, and never. And do not care about the wishes of the people.
  21. 0
    13 November 2019 08: 42
    About the article. The author believes that the Russian authorities see the union state as a confederate entity like the Grand Duchy of Finland in the Russian Empire. I didn’t hear our authorities writing or saying anything like that. Maybe it was a long time ago? The analogy with the film is interesting, but incomplete, because, I think, one should add a person from the regional committee who weaves intrigues around the relations of the characters. But most importantly, in its stupid bustle and mutual accusations, the Russian elite stops the desire to unite, except to take advantage.
    1. +4
      13 November 2019 09: 17
      It has long been, there was such a slogan:
      -Proletarians of all countries, unite !!!
      Proletarians, where are you AU ???
      But something else comes to mind - divide and POWER !!!
      This is how the casket just opens, and the author pushes everything for the Bolshoi (theater) ...
      Funny however ...
  22. +1
    13 November 2019 08: 58
    Maybe my logic is "lame" somewhere, but unification is possible only on terms of absorption of one by the other. At best, as the author correctly noted, it will be a variant of Finland as part of the Russian Empire. In any other case, it will not be a state, but a temporary union. It is temporary, history does not know examples of eternal alliances.
    1. +1
      13 November 2019 15: 40
      Quote: Less
      In the best case, as the author correctly noted, this will be a variant of Finland as part of the Russian Empire.

      let’s do it somehow ... even though the federation even the region ... tired of waiting already ...
      1. 0
        13 November 2019 15: 46
        Quote: exalibor
        let's get something.

        But is that what I decide? request
  23. +2
    13 November 2019 09: 08
    Started for health, and finished for peace ...
  24. +5
    13 November 2019 09: 10
    Do not confuse Lukashenko with the elite and the Belarusian people. The main reason for the elite’s hesitation and throwing is the desire to be in power. An example of this is the former Union republics, where national elites finally seized power, and given the factor of the capitalist system, it means money. The union state will have a different alignment and not all current statesmen will remain in their posts. The EU gives them a chance to stay in their current form for a while, since the number one task now is to tear Belarus away from Russia, and then everything is extremely simple: democratic elections in which liberals and generally new people oriented to the West will win. There will come free market competition within the EU, which will undoubtedly destroy the industrial potential of the republic, people will have the freedom to go to prosperous Europe to work, where qualified personnel are needed. Western technologies are not just worked out, but polished. This can be seen in the examples of the countries of Eastern Europe and the Baltic states. The main thing is not to pretend that nothing is happening, not to try to hold on, especially with money and handouts, but to draw lessons and raise Russia.
  25. -2
    13 November 2019 09: 22
    They won’t become Russia again ?! Poland and Lithuania will be torn apart !!!
    1. -1
      13 November 2019 09: 48
      Maybe . Such entities cannot be independent.
    2. +1
      13 November 2019 15: 42
      Quote: Monster
      Poland and Lithuania will be torn to pieces !!!

      )))) Yes, Lithuania is tearing .... really there is someone who is afraid))))
  26. +3
    13 November 2019 09: 26
    "Why has not a full-fledged Union State of Russia and Belarus appeared in 20 years"
    So oligarchic capitalism is the same. Ktozh foreign oligarchs voluntarily let himself ???
    1. +1
      13 November 2019 09: 46
      In my opinion, this is half the reason. And the whole reason is the power and money of the Belarusian elite.
      1. +4
        13 November 2019 13: 31
        This is oligarchic capitalism.
        "power and money of the Belarusian elite" against
        "power and money of the Russian elite"
        And if you look from this point of view, then a lot of things become clear.
  27. +2
    13 November 2019 09: 32
    It must be admitted that Lukashenka is acting very sensibly without entering into an alliance with modern Russia, he remembers history, he does not need a "Trojan horse".
    To our deep regret, it should be stated that in Russia now there is a whole herd of "Trojan horses" in power in the form of our "valiant government" and a thought with the Federation Council. The "herdman" felts himself, if he is himself a member of this herd, and it doesn't matter. A herd of "Trojan horses" rushes across Russia, tramples pastures, rusting at the same time, crap everywhere. But this is the usual thing "the law of the cavalry", "shit and rode off." Some overly brave citizens who tried to stop the herd get hooves in the forehead and teeth. There are three options for further development of events:
    1. The people will continue to be "patient", then let them not be offended;
    2. A miracle will happen or the herd will feel the discontent of the people and rush off to the fat meadows abroad where they already have warm stalls, hay and oats are stocked. This is the best option;
    3. The people will be angry, chasing the herder, and the herd will be put on horseback sausage. This herd cannot be used for work, they have become fat and, in principle, it is not possible to travel around, and it is not necessary. This scenario will lead to a serious shake-up.
    So Lukashenko, for all his shortcomings, is doing the right thing and pragmatically, sorry for him in the green meadows of Belarus.
    1. 0
      19 November 2019 11: 24
      The people will continue to remain "patient", then let them not be offended;
      So you constantly say that people are people - and who listened to the voice of the people in 1991, when the Soviet people voted to preserve the USSR ??? Politicians of the 90s constantly spat on the opinion of their own peoples !!! Political villains of all stripes and levels are hiding behind and wiping people !!!
      How often in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus referendums are held ??? To at least listen to the opinion of these peoples themselves ??? The people know how to drive power under the bench - and moreover, does it regularly and everywhere !!!
  28. 0
    13 November 2019 09: 57
    Quote: VIK1711
    Have you already bought MAZ, MZKT and MTZ?
    Or did you stop your PCM combine?
    Or some tractor in the Russian Federation resuscitated?

    And this is not important (because this is not enough high-tech products). It is important that this is terr. Education now exists at the expense of the Russian Federation. (sales market, loans, nuclear power plants, etc.) so if you unite, then ordinary people will definitely not live worse. And believe me, they will buy everything that is needed (if necessary), because the chieftain does not have a gold reserve, he has nowhere to go if they want to squeeze it.
  29. -4
    13 November 2019 10: 00
    No State will be reported. Read what Belarusians write on forums and in a well-known social network. Belarusians had an example of LDNR and that brand created in Russia
  30. +2
    13 November 2019 10: 05
    Quote: Pessimist22
    So that "Russian" oligarchs do not rob Belarus?

    Alexander Grigoryevich, are you ON? wink
  31. +4
    13 November 2019 10: 08
    How did you manage to build the USSR? And the USA? At the center of everything is a simple answer. The governing structures of these conglomerates have shown their determination and, most importantly, their effectiveness. Under the leadership of the US federal government, this state has become a leader on the planet. Under the leadership of the Soviet governing structures, the USSR was second in this ranking table. It was visible globally, and it was visible locally, every day. The USSR did not give its citizens personal wealth, but for all people, absolutely, it provided such opportunities to break the wrong obsolete shackles that hindered development that for its existence, the citizens of the USSR won the worst war in the history of mankind.
    And what does joining Russia give? How is Russia governed? What success awaits those who join? What is better than the rest of our governing structure? Hehe ... What Russia is able to offer in the world in bulk. And the United States can do much more and this is much better organized. The championship among scum has already been won, and no one needs a second position in such a competition. There is a godfather, and all the rest are either terpils or sixes.
  32. +1
    13 November 2019 10: 39
    We have capitalism, this is when a person is a man of the WOLF, in Belarus socialism, when a friend, comrade and brother. What could be the Union, the wolves will devour those who are brotherly to them. We do not have common ideas for what to unite. Only trouble can unite us when the wolves run into their dens abroad to lay down.
  33. +6
    13 November 2019 10: 52
    So, the Union State in Russian is a single confederate state, with a single leadership and all the attributes of the state. To put it even easier, Belarus will have to become another constituent entity of the Russian Federation with a special status. A sort of Finland in the Russian Empire.

    The author is disingenuous on a large scale, and by this he betrays himself. Or has a vague idea of ​​what the Treaty consists of.
    This phrase of his shows that the Kremlin does not really want to implement the Treaty on the Creation of the Union State.
    The union agreement provides for completely equal relations between Belarus and Russia.
    Article 3

    1. The Union State is based on the principles of sovereign equality of the participating States, voluntariness, and conscientious fulfillment of their mutual obligations.

    2. The Union State is based on the delimitation of objects of competence and authority between the Union State and the participating States ....
    Article 6

    1. Each State Party shall retain, taking into account the powers voluntarily transferred to the Union State, sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity, state structure. Constitution, state flag, coat of arms and other attributes of statehood.

    2. Member States retain their membership in the UN and other international organizations. The possibility of a single membership in international organizations and other international associations is determined by the participating states by mutual agreement.

    As you can see, nothing similar to that described by the author.
    http://www.soyuz.by/about/docs/dogovor5/
    It can be seen from real documents that Lukashenka is seeking to fulfill the signed agreements, Belarus is clearly profitable, Belarus has the right to veto at least any decisions.
    But the Kremlin does not really want to fulfill them.
    Of course, I understand the difference in the weight of Russia and Belarus, and the fact that such equality in this case looks strange, and I understand that no one in the Kremlin is interested in such equality because of the completely different scales of the states.
    But, one asks, why did they sign it, if this contradiction was obvious from the beginning !?
    Similarly with the economic sphere.
    Article 20

    Member States create a single economic space. In the Union State, there is a unified and then uniform legislation governing economic activity, including civil and tax legislation.

    It is further detailed that the enterprises of Belarus and Russia should be in exactly the same conditions.
    It is clear that this completely excludes any preferences of one of the parties, including in terms of energy resources.
    But the people close to the Kremlin don’t like this state of affairs. Why do they need proximity if they cannot use it? And in Belarus they are not averse to taking advantage of their Kremlin ties.
    Whatever Lukashenko would say, and he also has enough nonsense, he formally achieves just that — so that the conditions for the enterprises of Belarus and Russia are the same, as recorded in the Treaty.
    If this does not fit, then one more time asks why they signed it?
    It is necessary to directly state that this and this does not fit and the Union State will not exist in this form, and not be a hypocrite and not blame Lukashenko.
  34. +3
    13 November 2019 11: 01
    after the collapse of Kievan Rus into feudal principalities, Tatar spies traveled all of them and before the invasion reported to Khan Batu, the princes live there, like wolves bite among themselves and it will be very easy to conquer them ..... now they threaten the invasion to Kaliningrad, then to The Arctic is then flung to the whole country ... and some princes, hiding behind the American flag, wait for Russia to fall apart, others swear to eternal friendship, holding a stone in their bosoms ... history has not taught anything ... Ivanov, who do not remember of their kinship and ready to lick boots for the interventionist and conqueror for 30 Judaic silver men ...
  35. -6
    13 November 2019 11: 06
    Because dad is a new prince in the ON. And all his talk about "oligarchs" is just a cover, since he himself is the main oligarch who has become a monarch on his piece of land. And the same Poroshenko is much closer to him.

    And yes, RB - now just a parasite. An incomprehensible bottomless hole, the same as Chechnya, but even Chechens, at least in height. armies serve.
  36. +2
    13 November 2019 11: 12
    Probably each of us, if Lukashenko was in place, would not unite with Russia in its current form
    1. -4
      13 November 2019 11: 51
      Oh, I immediately remembered the conceptual fanfic about the character from my avatar. "If you're Nightmare Moon, you'll act like Nightmare Moon. Even if you don't want to." If you were in Lukashenka's place, you would be Lukashenka with all his interests in maintaining personal power in his personal principality.
  37. +1
    13 November 2019 11: 16
    Why in the 20 years a full-fledged Union State of Russia and Belarus did not appear

    —- Such is the truth of the moment: only a truly common danger, a direct and immediate threat .... can lead to unity, the Union State with an acceptable justification.

    —- At first, the general in the Soviet people was more powerful than the private in the republics. Republican elites were mobile in the Soviet and party dimensions, and sought and made their way, or "by acquaintance" - to the capital. This unconditionally acted in the BSSR and the USSR, and of course - the RSFSR ....
    —- The centripetal forces in them acted much stronger than centrifugal ones. We can talk about unity and a single elite in the three Slavic republics of the USSR. As state-forming peoples of the USSR.
    —- The catastrophe accentuated and fetishized the individual and personality. Everything is common, if you remember. ridiculed as reactionary ...
    —- Irreversibility of the catastrophe .... 1989 - the fall of the Wall is the moment of the need for the demarcation of the elites. And after the Bialowieza - a moment of inadmissibility of unity of the elites.

    —- For 30 years after the rampant catastrophe, the elites went in different directions, completely separated. And the current time is working against the unity of the elites, and therefore against the unity of peoples. The challenges to the Russian elite and the Belarusian elite are different and diverging.
    —- Kocharyan and Bobrov thought in general categories, and threats and achievements by them were understood coherently.
    —- Putin and Lukashenko (both guarantors to their elites), as we see, think in different categories. And Lukashenko accentuates .... bait to the West.
    —This is the truth of the moment: it is a long time outside Lukashenko and Putin, they are much closer to the general than the local elites .... Only a truly common danger, a direct and immediate threat .... can lead to unity, the Union State with an acceptable justification.
    1. -2
      16 November 2019 16: 35
      Namesake ... The cadavric structure of the USSR, introduced because Lenin talked so much about the "prison of peoples" (so that he was once again given a red-hot frying pan to lick in hell), created the very problem of "national elites". To everyone's regret, Stalin also played an important role here. He knew how to skillfully quarrel with each other parts of this wild "elite" building, and took full advantage of it. But to do this, you have to be a genius like him!
      In most of the "union republics" power was selected on the basis of ethnicity, and in the capital of this power absolutely nothing shone. The only exceptions were the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR. All other "elites" were appointed to their places because their national associations (teips, etc.) at the time of appointment were stronger and played a more cunning intrigue.
      It was impossible to appoint a Chechen somewhere in Tyumen, he absolutely didn’t think about management! All the work was done by Russian, Belarusian or Ukrainian deputies and poms. Some of the ministerial positions where real work was needed at the moment were occupied by Russians, because the "national elites" did not even try to work in real life. Their limit was, as now, simple theft and begging for money from the Moscow center. As they found more and more ways to the rapidly decrepit Moscow elite, the RSFSR was decaying, giving every penny to the "fraternal peoples", and on the periphery, loafers more and more became unearned.
      Perestroika freed them from the "hated dictatorship" of Moscow, but they did not become smarter from this. The peoples of the "fraternal republics" are living worse and worse, but now it is much more convenient to rob them. Local "elites" will never, for anything, under any circumstances, voluntarily join the unification. Let at least all their peoples rest. They don't care, the main thing is THEIR accounts. And when united, Moscow sharks will devour some kind of Turkmen or Kazakh "elitists" within six months. Why would they do this?
      Russia, uniting peoples, gave the local elites freedom and place. The "new" Russia cannot give such guarantees in principle, since the present "Moscow nation" has no honor as a concept. The scoundrels succeed in vile tricks, but they have no faith! And there is no room for new "elites" either.
      Previously, elites ruled the lives of their peoples, protected them, organized, directed them. And the current "elites" can only steal. Prince Bagration fought for Russia as a great (and in this capacity badly needed) military leader. Thousands of princes, chiefs, nobles of peripheral nations became part of the system of government of a single country. And now? Is there a shortage of thieves in Moscow? Thieves differ in that in place of one of them, you can put any of millions of others. There is no difference at all. Any optimization with the same result can be carried out by both Golikova and some Ukutikova, the result will be exactly the same. Why give place to "newcomers"?
      There will be no "union state". Nobody needs it except the "population". And our elders do not care about him a long time ago ...
  38. +3
    13 November 2019 12: 20
    Because all the countries of the former USSR built their independence on Russophobia and Lukashenko is no exception ... Lukashenko is a typical post-Soviet tsar-parasite who wants to live at the expense of Russia and to spoil her
  39. +3
    13 November 2019 12: 49
    Why is there no unification of countries and what is stopping me? Yes, the mentality of the hapka and the small-prince prince (in my garden I myself am a king and a god). There is no desire to seriously implement this, and the roasted cock does not bite yet.
  40. +1
    13 November 2019 13: 29
    Stop biting your nails! There would be a desire and political will, the issue would be resolved within a week! And so, this is all cognitive dissonance
  41. +4
    13 November 2019 14: 55
    Perhaps it’s not in the “elite and the elite,” Let's reason soberly. For all the time that has passed since the collapse of the Union, we have become different. Different nations and different countries. Different youth and different economies. The only thing that unites us is a common history, the Second World War. And a low bow to the Belarusians and the leadership of the Republic of Belarus, that they did not betray our common history, did not betray the memory of our fathers and grandfathers, unlike most Ukrainian brothers, Well, time has shown what the fraternal peoples are capable of. But as regards the Union State, this question should be very deliberate, balanced. Even our so-called “elites” must think it over well — do they need Belarusians with their ,, Bentley’s, and how do they feel about these, “elite” citizens .. Yes, and Belarusians need to weigh everything and decide- Are they ready for all new changes, from the economy to the moral ... All this is complicated. One must be wise, both to the people and the government.
  42. -1
    13 November 2019 15: 42
    "So, the Union State in Russian is a single confederate state, with a single leadership and all the attributes of the state. To put it simply, Belarus will have to become another subject of the Russian Federation with a special status. A sort of Finland in the Russian Empire."
    Author, this is how ??? Is federation and confederation the same thing? Therefore, most likely, consideration of the issues of the structure of the SG is rather strange. But it is interesting to read. Everyone has the right to their opinion.
  43. -1
    13 November 2019 19: 17
    Author, the reasons are clear and lie on the surface. The interests of the Belarusian capitalists do not coincide with the interests of the Russian. And there is nothing to philosophize crafty.
  44. -1
    13 November 2019 19: 22
    Quote: EvilLion
    Are you asking me? In the 1991 year, everyone was told that your country was no longer there, someone objected. So it’s better to ask yourself how the Minsk grandmothers will react when they see the new Russian pensions, they will tear apart all the opponents of the Minsk region in the Russian Federation in advance.

    In general, I believe that Russia has every right to the entire territory of the USSR, without any republics or anything else. All the Russian language, all to the Russian army, all Russian salaries and pensions, from all the same demand as from the Russians. And then they got used to live at the expense of the Russians.

    Okay ... I'll give you a parabellum ...
  45. -2
    13 November 2019 20: 11
    Quote: www3
    how the Russians go to work in Belarus)) -https: //finance.tut.by/news653068.html

    Yes, even if they go, there is Russian money ..... but Belarusian in Russia ... and the statistics of Russians traveling take into account those who are going to build nuclear power plants for you with Russian money?
  46. +2
    13 November 2019 20: 23
    As long as Putin and his "dear friends" are in power in Russia, there will be no union state! And it is not necessary. If the Belarusians were stupid and would agree to a real state, then Belarus would no longer exist. There would be a "subject" of the Russian Federation, not quite a federal state.
  47. +2
    14 November 2019 00: 12
    In fact, everything is simple and complex at the same time. The union in essence implies the unification of two equal (in this case) in political and economic strength of the parties. But with all due respect to the Belarusians, their country cannot be compared with Russia in these parameters. Accordingly, in any case, under any conditions on paper, it will be absorption. And naturally the Belarusian elites will resist this to the last. There is nothing wrong or unnatural about this. This is how this world and the human thirst for power work. From this follows the desire of the "tender calf" to suck from two queens. And to continue to be friends with Russia, getting various "buns", and to flirt with the West, balancing the scales in the hope, again, to get preferences from them.
    The same Ukraine could feel very at ease to this day with such a policy. And everything would have worked out for her. But there was not enough restraint and modesty in the upbringing of a new generation of "patriots of their country", who eventually turned into extreme right-wing nationalists.
    1. 0
      14 November 2019 14: 54
      In fact, the Union State is an association of states with equal rights.
      And no political or economic weight of the parties matters. By the way, remove energy and it will be difficult to say about the superiority of the industrial potential of the Russian Federation over Belarus. By the way, if in the 90s the Russian authorities really decided to unite as planned, it is quite possible that then the president of a real Union state
      became comrade Lukashenko. And GDP is, at best, the mayor of Peter.
      Today, Belarusians think not about a federation, but about a confederation, and it is on these conditions that they are ready to unite. By delegating to the center the right to military defense, financially monetary policy and general economic development with a partial delegation of rights to international politics, leaving behind a political and economic structure, in other words putting a barrier to the expansion of our oligarchy. Actually something like the USA.
      I think that it is precisely to look at the union of states and the readiness for such a union that is necessary through the prism of profitability or non-profitability of one of the high contracting parties.
      In the 90s, the association was beneficial for Belarusians, today it is beneficial for us. And each pursues its own interests, whether they are selfish or not is another issue.
  48. +1
    14 November 2019 08: 31
    And what did the gentlemen of the patriots dislike in the comments about the plants ???
    Refusal to sell Belarusian?
    Or maybe the collapse of the Russian? Do you know the fate of the Krasnoyarsk combine?
    Yes, the harvester PCM is not closed, but for now, production has simply stopped!
    So in the USA and Canada, the factories of the company PCM in Russia do not now produce equipment.
    And the reason is simple - buyers have no money!
    The Russian government removed subsidies to agricultural producers (not all) and gave money to banks "to help agriculture." How are banks used to helping us?
  49. -1
    14 November 2019 09: 58
    They did not recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
    "The incident with the detention in Minsk of Anna Bogacheva, who came under US sanctions in the case of" interference "in the elections, can be regarded as a betrayal on the part of Belarus. Viktor Vodolatsky, a member of the State Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, told RIA Novosti.
    Upon request, Carl! Can you imagine a situation that, for example, in Germany, at our request, a US citizen will be arrested?
    So here we are allies.
    1. +1
      14 November 2019 15: 14
      Not at the request of the US but interpol.
      No need to be fooled.
      By the way, what do you not resent when our courts extradite people who participated in the defense of Donbass to Ukraine, knowingly sending them to death? Do you think this incident is not a violation of rights and freedoms? And then, the manner of diverting attention from internal problems, for example, the struggle for the freedom of one or another of our representatives, such as, for example, Butina, is interesting. It’s clear to the horse that she is not involved in any espionage activities, but I think that they didn’t give her horns in the USA for this activity either.
      And about Germany, they can arrest them at the request of the interpol, but they are unlikely to give us away.
      In Europe, both our runaway oligarchs and thieves are not really given out, if there is such a request,
      especially from England. And it seems that the point is not so much in politics as in money. By the way, the United States does not bother extradition, kidnap and export without any permission.
  50. 0
    14 November 2019 16: 45
    Friendship and even cooperation is always based on mutual interest. Both quickly pass when interest turns into one-sided. Give, give and give ... What is happening.
    As for the Union State.
    The integration of Belarus and Russia is irresistibly hindered by a different interpretation and the very concept of the term "STATE".
    The Russians understand it, like the entire educated world, as politically, economically, militarily and in other areas THE ONE WHOLE construction of state structures!
    The Belarusian state structure, including the President and the Government, interprets the concept of "Union State" (SG) as a "Union" of states. And above all and only (!!!) in the economic (!) Zone. Moreover, they are looking for one-sided (!) Benefits.
    With the Belarusian interpretation, the conclusion of the Treaty is sufficient. However, both at the state level, and between enterprises, firms, etc. for specific trade relations.
    With this approach, SG does not happen ...
  51. -2
    14 November 2019 17: 38
    Re-read carefully and even briefly the signed Treaty on the Union State (!). State! Singular! With all the attributes of statehood. Examples of this are the USA and the USSR (experts will also suggest others).
    By the way, or not at all by the way, the Treaty stipulated the principle of rotational management of the SG by both presidents in turn. For some, this item was so desirable that...
    A union of states is a completely different structure, a contractual relationship. For example the EU or other unions.
    My opinion is that it's time to stop talking about SG. Be self-sufficient, independent, don’t beg. If you can. If you don’t know how to do it like Ukraine, it’s up to you to choose. Should you become Young EU members? There is someone and something to look at.
  52. +1
    14 November 2019 19: 26
    Quote: Sewer Krainiy
    I’ll tell you a secret, their work, nobody really needs anyone and only the Russian Federation gives them a market

    I’ll tell you a secret too. Belarus, due to circumstances prevailing since the USSR, is the assembly shop of the Union. And this workshop, thanks to the signed union agreement, has basically been preserved and is working. Cooperation with Russian enterprises gives work to Russians. The assembly shop will stop - you can imagine what will be there. So everything is mutually beneficial.

    I will also tell you that Belarus is the largest debtor to Russia! Well, how can there be equal benefits? Constant injections from Russia! Has she now paid for the Su planes she received from us with money? Or maybe she paid for the nuclear power plant that our people are building, with our money? please answer directly ...
    We’ll also try to reason. How can Belarus make a lot of money? on tractors, mazes, potatoes ,,,? Who needs maz, except for the Russian market. most importantly, the euro market, America, and other developed countries where there is capital? He is not needed there! also on tractors! and potatoes with milk! I look forward to continuing.
    You can write about my mistakes in my knowledge of Russian. although it is better to have a dialogue on the merits....
    1. 0
      15 November 2019 09: 56
      Or maybe she paid for the nuclear power plant that our people are building with our money? please answer directly...

      And in which country is Rosatom building a nuclear power plant not with our money???
      And after how many years and into whose pocket will the payment go?
      1. +1
        15 November 2019 17: 00
        We are now speaking for Belarus! What does this have to do with other countries? Are you accustomed to answering a question with a question? We can do everything for free for the three of us, Belarus shouldn’t worry about that!
        1. 0
          15 November 2019 18: 35
          Have you read my question about tractors? Maybe you can voice the percentage of MTZ in the entire volume of tractor purchases in the Russian Federation in recent years? Or would you name the tractor factories...(indicating production volumes)?
          1. -1
            16 November 2019 15: 21
            Fine. You can look up the volumes in % yourself, but I will list the tractor factories right now, although it will take a long time:
            1. Rostselmash" (Rostov-on-Don).....
            2. Agromash" (Cheboksary).......
            3. Terrion (St. Petersburg - Tambov).....
            4. “Kirovets” (St. Petersburg.....
            5. Baltiets" (St. Petersburg)...
            6.KAMTZ (Naberezhnye Chelny).....
            7. VTZ (Volgograd....
            8. ChTZ (Chelyabinsk......
            9. Alttrak" (Rubtsovsk).....
            10. Petra-FTZ" (St. Petersburg....


            You can even find it, but if you are interested, then do the work yourself. And it’s stupid to mention any tractors in this topic. How much do you need to make these tractors to pay for the nuclear power plant alone? Read it. And we, even if we couldn’t produce tractors ourselves, could buy them from other countries, they would be very happy. What would you do? So the teeth are on the shelf, but what if you still need to block the market? Belarusians should kiss Putin’s hands because he allows them to be bought from Belarusians! Do you agree? Or is that not the case either? And yet, let's compare comparable things, and you are some kind of tractor.... these are trifles for a state like the Russian Federation. ...
            1. +1
              17 November 2019 12: 11
              It’s in vain that you didn’t look for production volumes at the listed plants!
              Don't be lazy, look!
              1. 0
                17 November 2019 16: 44
                I'll still be lazy, because... In my region I’m starting (for about five years now) to see Russian tractors and not Belarusian ones at all... but these are seeds! Can you explain to me how this education exists economically? And why did it turn out to be the largest debtor of the Russian Federation, why should we supply it with cheap energy resources (when this is not the Russian Federation at all), why is Belarus building a nuclear power plant with our money, why for them the market has always been with preferences in the Russian Federation... in general, I wonder for whose The account then lives this education? If at the expense of another state, then in my opinion this is not correct. If it were one country, then there would be no questions, but it’s not clear why it should sit on the neck of the Russian Federation? You discuss this, and you are all PEACONS, PEACONS.......
            2. 0
              18 November 2019 11: 20
              https://red.msk.ru/v-rossii-likvidiruyutsya-krupnejshie-traktornye-zavody/
              According to the head of Rostec, Sergey Chemezov, the largest engineering concern in Russia, Tractor Plants, will be declared bankrupt. His debts amount to 85 billion rubles, and, as Chemezov admits, "the financial recovery of the company is currently impossible."


              The structure of the Concern Tractor Plants includes the following production sites:

              Altai Motor Plant OJSC - liquidated
              Vladimir Motor-Tractor Plant LLC - liquidated
              OJSC PA Krasnoyarsk Combine Plant - declared bankrupt
              "Volgograd Engineering Company" VgTZ "- liquidated
              Zauralsky Forge and Foundry - is on the verge of bankruptcy
              OJSC Krasnoyarsk Forest Engineering Plant (Kralesmash)
              Lipetsk Caterpillar Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
              Onega Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
              PJSC Promtractor - declared bankrupt
              JSC "Promtractor Wagon" - declared bankrupt
              LLC "Promtractor-Promlit" - declared bankrupt
              SAREX OJSC (production of excavators) - declared bankrupt
              "Tractor company" VgTZ "- declared bankrupt
              PJSC Cheboksary Aggregate Plant - declared bankrupt
              Volzhsky combine plant.
              OJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (Kurganmashzavod)


              https://exkavator.ru/main/news/inf_news/124180_o_proizvodstve_i_otgruzkah_traktorov_itogi_2018_goda.html
              About the production and shipment of tractors. Results of 2018
              The production of tractors in Russia over the past year, according to ASM-Holding, decreased by 3,3% compared to the same period in 2017.
              In quantitative terms, this figure was 7 units. equipment, of which 836 units. - tractors for agriculture (-6%), 728 units. - industrial machines (+4,8%). Despite the overall decline, at the end of 1 months of 108, an increase in production was noted at a number of enterprises in the Russian Federation. For example, at the Altaillesmash plant, the production of tractors increased by 6,3 times compared to the previous period.
              Level of tractor production in Russia in January-December 2018

              During the period under review, a total of 8 units of equipment were shipped: an increase of 495%.
              Shipment of tractors in Russia in January-December 2018

              Of the total number of tractors produced last year, the share of foreign brands assembled in Russia was 54%. At the same time, 30,7% of the machines were assembled from MTZ tractor kits, from foreign ones - 21,5% (New Holland, John Deere, Versatile, Axion, Agrotron, Xerion), from HTZ kits - 1,8%.

              For general development...
              1. +1
                18 November 2019 18: 53
                Well, this has been developed... I like to discuss.
                1.........Despite the overall decline, following the results of 12 months of 2018, an increase in production was noted at a number of enterprises in the Russian Federation. For example, at the Altaillesmash plant, the production of tractors increased by 2,1 times compared to the previous period. ............ Well, that is. can increase
                2. At the same time, 30,7% of the machines were assembled from MTZ tractor kits, from foreign ones - 21,5% (New Holland, John Deere, Versatile, Axion, Agrotron, Xerion), from HTZ kits - 1,8%.... .... Did I understand correctly that we produce about 50% ourselves?
                3. Don’t you think that if the Russian Federation decides to produce 100% of tractors for itself (let us dream for now - you say), what will happen to MTZ? Will it become very profitable? What I mean is that maybe you should kiss Uncle Vova’s hands because he allows you to buy tractors from you for now? No ? As far as I understand, without a sales market you will die? No ?
                4. I’ll say it again, if you are removed as competitors from the market, then maybe our tractor production will increase? No ? or do you, like the Ukrainians, think we can’t live without your tractors?
                Ukraine has stopped selling us more serious products! We started producing it ourselves! and tractors... it’s not serious...
                5. Can’t we replace your tractors in China? I don’t think the Chinese will refuse? how are you ?
                By the way, this could happen soon, I definitely don’t see MTZ stores, but there are Chinese tractors, I can send you a photo, (only on occasion when I go) there are several tractors from small to large and they are Chinese..... so punish us, stop selling your tractors! Is it clear where Belarus will end up with MTZ?
                6. I think you will understand why I posted this ------------ Positive trends in the industry are not just expectations, but an ongoing trend. Thus, according to the Rosagromash Association, the domestic tractor industry completed the first quarter of 2017 with significant growth compared to last year’s figures. Product output increased by 40%. The growth in absolute monetary terms amounted to slightly more than 27 billion rubles. Tractor production grew, primarily in the agricultural machinery segment. An important role in the increase in volumes was played by the state Program for Subsidizing Agricultural Equipment Manufacturers, which was adopted in 2012 and is still in effect. Construction and road machines are not showing such success as tractors for the agricultural sector, but here the dynamics are generally positive.

                Source: https://delonovosti.ru/business/3939-razvitie-traktorostroeniya-v-rossii.html
                What I mean is that I think your insertions, like mine, are stupid! and I call it flood or idle talk! Sorry, I'm not insulting you personally. You can just find any links and this is not always true!
                7. Well, now my favorite! please explain to me how you have benefited us by taking huge loans from us, on which you live, explain that we are very happy because we sell energy to you at domestic prices (it’s generally unclear what the prices of the Russian Federation and other states have to do with it.), explain to us that it is vitally important to build you a nuclear power plant with our money, and finally tell us that we will die without your products, i.e. if we don’t open up a sales market for you, I forgot something else, well, that’s enough. How to get rid of such benefactors???!!!! if these were citizens of my country, I agree. I don’t agree with paying the bills for independent people!
                Well, it’s stupid to say that a landlocked territory, surrounded by other countries, not having any of its own energy, not producing high-tech products (trifles don’t count), whose money cannot be worth anything, can be a significant link in international relations! She will always be a bargaining chip! no matter how unpleasant it may sound...
                1. 0
                  19 November 2019 09: 25
                  1.........Despite the overall decline, following the results of 12 months of 2018, an increase in production was noted at a number of enterprises in the Russian Federation. For example, at the Altaillesmash plant, the production of tractors increased by 2,1 times compared to the previous period. ............ Well, that is. can increase

                  I asked you not to bring industrial tractors (1000-2000 machines per year...)
                  Only agricultural machines!
                  We need tractors of different traction classes. And no 2700 K-744 will replace 10000 MTZ.
                  Nails and a microscope...
                  http://atf.rosspetsmash.ru/upload/iblock/3e1/chekmarev-p.a..pdf
                  Please familiarize yourself with the need to replace agricultural machinery and production at factories.
                  Small note:
                  the Versatile plant, before its purchase by RSM, produced up to 1 tractors of all types. Up to 000% of the cars went to the Russian Federation, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
                  in the wake of import substitution, they decided to increase production to 2 cars...
                  So the production of combines should have been doubled!
                  Only imported components are not enough for all plans...
                  1. +1
                    19 November 2019 18: 06
                    ok, good, I’ll even say convinced. I ask again if you (suddenly there will be happiness) become angry with us and stop selling to us, or suddenly our people refuse to buy your tractors, who will be worse off? Just in case, I’ll say that if our state itself cannot do it (I also doubt it), then I think there will be those willing.. no (indispensable)?
                    Well, I’m still waiting for your explanations and explanations on other positions that we will be lost without you....
                    By the way, you are aware that despite your unique economy, you have a negative trade balance, i.e. do you consume more than you sell (that’s what your president says)? and how can you live like this and for how long...?.
                    1. 0
                      19 November 2019 19: 24
                      I ask again, if you (suddenly there will be happiness) become angry with us and stop selling to us, or suddenly our people refuse to buy your tractors, who will be worse off? Just in case, I’ll say that if our state itself cannot do it (I also doubt it), then I think there will be those willing.. no (indispensable)?

                      I won’t be lost without you at all! I will always have enough work to repair tractors and combines in the south of the Russian Federation (Stavropol Territory, Krasnodar Territory, Rostov Region, etc.).
                      And every year there is more and more work - the equipment is aging...
                      And the machine operators are getting smaller!
                      This is done by MTZ and Niva on the knee in any workshop. And all our new tractors and combines are Tetris of bourgeois knots.
                      1. +1
                        21 November 2019 17: 09
                        Are you conducting dialogue from the Russian side or from the Belarusian side? If you’re with the Russian one, you won’t be lost, but if you’re with the Belarusian one, then everything depends on the kindness of the head of the Russian Federation.... and there’s something I didn’t quite understand about your last opus, in the context of our dialogue....
                      2. 0
                        22 November 2019 07: 55
                        I was born, raised, live and work in the Stavropol Territory.
                        MTZ-82 (920, 1221, 1523, ...), "Niva", "Don" are assembled from parts and assemblies made in the Republic of Belarus and the Russian Federation.
                        Akros, Torum, Versatile, Terrion, KAMAZ (tractor and car) have in their design a bunch of important imported components that require a different approach to repair...
                        CUMMINS engines, Caterpillar gearboxes (Okubo, Kubota, ZF,...), axles (ZF, DANA,...), hydraulics (Bosch, Bondioli-Pavessi,...), ...
                      3. +1
                        23 November 2019 12: 24
                        After this comment of yours, I don’t understand our dialogue with you and the purpose of the dialogue at all...
                        And regarding the comment itself (I’ll switch to a different direction), I’ll express my opinion, it’s that if the situation suddenly gets tight, they’ll make their own engine and gearbox and everything that’s needed. Well, the country won’t die, we won’t all die... they’ll just organize the production of what is needed, as was the case with Ukrainian products (military), they have more complex technologies and all the same, problems are slowly being solved.
          2. 0
            16 November 2019 15: 24
            Well, somehow they always avoid the topic that Belarus is Russia’s largest debtor, i.e. that we content is ter. Education... maybe you can comment on this, just speak for Belarus. And there is no need to say that this is a payment for the protection of the western borders of the Russian Federation. !
          3. 0
            16 November 2019 15: 27
            And with the money we feed Belarus with, how many tractor factories can we open? How many tractors to make - buy?
          4. 0
            16 November 2019 15: 55
            Now I opened the laptop, I’ll add more. So you say some plant was closed, etc. but I’ll tell you more, a lot of different factories were closed, some justifiably, some unjustifiably, and now some have been closed, some that are needed have been opened and are being opened, where are people working in Russia??!!,, Or do you think that only in Belarus they work, and in Russia they sit on stoves. In Russia they also build super modern planes, ships, submarines, spaceships, we won’t talk about nuclear power plants - it hurts... And you are some kind of tractors (I wonder whose energy carriers they are built on)... Isn’t it funny? Or do you think that it’s a tractor more difficult to make than a submarine? Isn't it funny yourself? Since you are such hard workers, why aren’t you building nuclear power plants? The Russians were called! They think that we have closed... Without Russia, you are neither economically nor politically wealthy! and only a fool will not understand this and will argue!
  53. -1
    16 November 2019 09: 14
    Is a union state really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to completely absorb Belarus and introduce it into Russia in the form of standard regions? After all, you and I understand that Belarusians do not exist, they are a fictitious people invented by the Bolsheviks only to split Russianness. I always said: most of all, the damned Bolsheviks were afraid of Russian unity.
    1. +1
      16 November 2019 09: 23
      Minus is mine. Ask Belarusians if they need such happiness?
      Quote: Basarev
      I have always said: most of all, the damned Bolsheviks were afraid of Russian unity.
      Lenin received the Cossacks.
    2. +1
      16 November 2019 15: 56
      Quote: Basarev
      Is a union state really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to completely absorb Belarus and introduce it into Russia in the form of standard regions? After all, you and I understand that Belarusians do not exist, they are a fictitious people invented by the Bolsheviks only to split Russianness. I always said: most of all, the damned Bolsheviks were afraid of Russian unity.

      I have exactly the same point of view... I agree!
  54. 0
    16 November 2019 18: 43
    Quote: Sewer Krainiy
    I'll tell you a secret too. Belarus, due to the circumstances that have developed since the times of the USSR, is the assembly shop of the Union.

    And what do they collect that Russia itself does not collect?
  55. +2
    17 November 2019 02: 55
    Quote: EvilLion
    Of course, Russia is not very willing to feed these more, as long as it is not at least obliged to pay pensions to Belarusian pensioners. And the farther, the more motivation for the Russian Federation to consider Belarus only as a source of Russian-speaking migrants for permanent residence.

    And why do we need your permanent residence? How much “feed” did you personally give out? Do you keep statistics? I advise you to finish school first and look at the macroeconomic indicators of the Republic of Belarus. Just don’t tell the British about their 25% of all investments in the Republic of Belarus, otherwise they will suddenly want to unite so as not to “feed” for nothing. Throw some more bullshit about a loan for a nuclear power plant, because loans are such a freebie. I advise you to get loans from the bank, wow, you’ll heal!
  56. 0
    17 November 2019 02: 59
    Quote: vitvit123
    Quote: Basarev
    Is a union state really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to completely absorb Belarus and introduce it into Russia in the form of standard regions? After all, you and I understand that Belarusians do not exist, they are a fictitious people invented by the Bolsheviks only to split Russianness. I always said: most of all, the damned Bolsheviks were afraid of Russian unity.

    I have exactly the same point of view... I agree!

    Apparently, for you and your friend, human history begins in 1917? With your “brothers” from the southwest since 1991, you are somewhat similar. And the damned Bolsheviks taught your grandmother to read and write, like the majority of the population of your beloved Russian empire, about which (the population) your white comrades absolutely did not care.
  57. kig
    +1
    17 November 2019 04: 24
    Why didn't it appear? Apparently, because the advantages of such a unification do not really attract either us or Belarusians.
  58. +1
    17 November 2019 13: 23
    All smart thoughts were said in ancient times. Gaius Julius Caesar remarked on a similar occasion that being first in a Gallic village is much better than being second in Rome. At the beginning of the path of the Union State, Lukashenko’s popularity among Russians was very great. He effortlessly beat any opponent in ratings and polls about the possible future president of Russia. The mustachioed man had an almost 100% chance of leading the entire Union State. Naturally, he was in favor of integration with both hands. There are statements, and “Russians with a quality mark” and all that. And then Putin appeared. He quickly gained enormous popularity and Alexander Grigorievich’s chances of becoming Russia’s leader were within the range of statistical error. This is where Lukashenko realized that he could very well prefer a bird in the hand in the form of a throne, at least in Belarus, to pie in the sky. The throne is small, but it is your own. And the understanding came that the Russian version of integration would deprive him of this throne. Hence all the unfriendly gestures.
  59. 0
    19 November 2019 11: 41
    The entire management system in Eastern European countries is built so that kings sit in place!!! They sit (feed) and do not control!!! This is how it happened historically - and this is an extremely ineffective model of government!!! Starting from the president to the last petty boss - all are kings!!! And this is considered normal - it was so under the tsar, and under the communists, and now it is the same under the democrats. In Russia this is most noticeable because the country is huge - but in Bulgaria, for example, or Serbia, this is also only on a miniature scale... Every boss is a king, a god and a tyrant in his place - and Lukashenko is the clearest example of this!!!
    Until someone or something breaks this system in Eastern European countries, life will not really change!!!

    By the way, these same wars of the kings (the confrontation between Gorbachev and Yeltsin) led to 1991 - well, the foreign policy enemies naturally took advantage of this... The kings broke the USSR - they broke something that they themselves did not build!!! But they can’t build it - it’s much more difficult!!! As they say, breaking does not build - no need for intelligence!!!
  60. +2
    19 November 2019 16: 19
    It was not for nothing that Lukashenko said “why the hell do we need such a union state.” Here, for example, is what is happening in Russia and is also being presented as an achievement: Half of the Russian Helicopters design bureau will be sold to the Arabs: https://topcor.ru/11978-polovina-kb-vertoletov-rossii-budet-prodana-arabam.html
    1. -1
      19 November 2019 21: 19
      Well, don’t take more money from Russia and don’t come here to work... Live at home and ours is with a bow... Moreover, none of you are allies... RB is a parasite... And the Ukrainian Lukashenko has been running around for a long time bows to Kiev, cooperates with Ukraine against Russia in the military sphere...Called Russia an occupier who imposed its wars on Belarus...In short, you are an enemy, not an ally...
      1. -2
        4 December 2019 23: 24
        If you tell me, then I didn’t take anything from you and didn’t come to work for you. And let the Russian pro-government “elite” not confuse itself with Russia. Russia was there before them, and will be even more so after them. I’m not saying that Lukashenko is a gift, but everything is learned in comparison...
        1. 0
          5 December 2019 15: 42
          Yes, the comparison is simple... In the Russian Federation you are all masters at taking money, but just as Russia needs something, you have independence and the right to an independent policy... I don’t want my country to feed those who robbed people like me on a national basis sign, in their countries, or those who shout that Russia is an occupier who has imposed its wars on their country...
          1. -1
            5 December 2019 23: 24
            I repeat once again that I didn’t take anything from “you” and didn’t see any of “your” money, and to whom and why are your unfinished kings handing out billions - ask them. And there is no need to attribute any “independence” to me - I saw it in the coffin along with its organizers. I am a simple Russian who finds himself in one of the fragments of long-suffering Russia.
            1. 0
              6 December 2019 14: 36
              There’s no need to lie, as if your kings don’t spend anything at all on you and your country...