Military Review

Novosibirsk is waiting for a hard winter

94
Severe Siberian colds annually experience life support systems for strength. In Novosibirsk, the third city in Russia, last winter was a record for the number of accidents on heating networks. According to experts, this winter the number of emergencies will not be less. Each such disconnection leads to a sharp deterioration in the socio-political situation and causes a massive outrage of the population.




On October 8, Novosibirsk scientists and power engineers gathered at the Institute of Economics of the SB RAS to discuss one of the most acute urban problems at the round table: how to increase the reliability of heat supply in a metropolis. Out of curiosity, even two top managers from small towns of the Kemerovo region came. But the theme of the round table, apparently, was not at all interesting to Novosibirsk officials and deputies. But their attention to the worn-out heating systems was calculated most of all by the power engineers of SGK, who arrived as a whole delegation led by Andrei Kolmakov, director of the Novosibirsk branch of this company.

The discussion turned out to be interesting; it directly concerns the wallet of every Novosibirsk family.

If you don’t fix my car, I won’t drive


For those who do not want to delve deeply into the topic of heat supply in Novosibirsk, I will try to retell the essence of the discussion of scientists and power engineers using the example of a simple everyday stories. Suppose you need to go to the airport. You called a taxi. The driver arrives on a shabby Lada, you sit down, and he is in no hurry to get in the way. Instead, they start talking about their problems. Just recently I bought this car from my hands in order to tax and earn. He took it cheaply, but the car was badly battered and constantly “strewed”. We have to invest more in repairs, and the tariffs in the taxi order service are low. Therefore, he asks you, in addition to the fare, to add money to him to repair the "cars".

What is your first thought? I think to complain about the insolent. Directly from the car, dial the taxi dispatcher, tell him the situation and ask to replace the car. In response, she says that she is completely on your side, but there are no other free cars. And he proposes to resolve the conflict with the driver in court. Moreover, she herself is ready to write you a statement of claim and represent you in court.

“Now how do I get to the airport?” - you ask, looking at the clock with excitement and feeling that you are already late.

“It is up to you to decide with the driver,” the dispatcher answers. - If he refuses to take you, we will contact you in court and will recover your losses from him. I think it’s possible, ”she adds uncertainly,“ though I’m not a lawyer, but I’ll try. ”

Something like this is now happening between the Siberian Generating Company (SGK), which bought two years ago the Novosibirsk Thermal Power Station, the Novosibirsk Mayor's Office, for years avoiding solving growing problems in the energy sector, and residents of the metropolis who suffer from thousands of blackouts every winter. Yes, our “plane” has not yet flown away, every year there are more and more accidents. So far, the accident has been managed to be controlled and no one has frozen, there is time to think about how to protect the interests of Novosibirsk. To warmth in the apartment was reliably provided and at a cost to the Siberians afford.

No matter how much you pay a monopolist, it’s not enough


The director of the Institute of Economics of the SB RAS Valery Kryukov, opening the “round table”, spoke very accurately about the causes of the crisis in the heat supply of Novosibirsk:
“You cannot build a market economy on a technology base that does not match it.”


The Soviet system of urban thermal power plants was well thought out and very technological for a planned socialist economy. The combined generation of electricity and heat saved the country half of the amount of fuel that is produced in Russia. But the prices for electricity and heat were as far from reality as "free" housing from the cost of its construction. Many expenses were covered by the budget from other sources of income.



At the decline of socialism in Novosibirsk, they decided to close the CHP-2 and CHP-3 to improve the environment and modernize obsolete equipment. They decided to replace the new CHP-6, which they began to build in the country. During privatization, Soviet property went for nothing. Mr. Melnichenko, the owner of SGK, bought coal enterprises of Kuzbass profitably, then he began to buy power plants that he drew with his own cheap coal as well. Novosibirsk energy has also become a profitable acquisition. Her former owner, an associate of Chubais, Mr. Abyzov, had been looking for a buyer for her for several years.

It is unlikely that the billionaire Melnichenko did not realize that the Novosibirsk heating systems were badly worn out. I think he believed that the consumer would be forced to pay for their repairs. Moreover, when privatizing the energy sector, the government did not choose a way to create a competitive market for thermal energy producers (such a market works effectively in the Scandinavian countries, Germany, England, Austria). Russia was pushed onto the rails of oligarchic state capitalism in the energy sector, when there is no real competition and the monopolist dictates prices to consumers.

Although de jure it is the municipality of Novosibirsk that is responsible for the heat supply of citizens, de facto it is not provided with the rights or resources to carry out this task. As a result, the city was forced to lease its worn-out networks and most of the municipal boiler houses to SIBEKO LLC (owned by SGK) instead of purchasing heat from all market participants and selling it to consumers.

Heat transfer is a profitable business. In the heat tariff, the cost of energy production is only 40 percent, and the remaining 60 is the fee for transferring hot water to the batteries in our apartments. But if two decades not to invest the necessary funds in the repair of heating systems, they will inevitably come into disrepair.

The participants in the round table acknowledge that several times more funds should be invested in network repair than now. This year, SIBECO repaired 0,4 percent of the networks. That is, at such a pace, it will take years 100-150 to update them. The company warns that a difficult winter awaits Novosibirsk again - there will be not much less emergency outages.

Who should pay for the safety of the population?


The SGK company hoped to persuade the governor, the mayor and deputies to force citizens to pay to prevent a crisis in heat supply. To convince the authorities to switch to an accelerated increase in tariffs for heat and hot water, as SGK managed to do this in the Altai Territory. But something did not grow together. At first, the elections of the head of the region and the regional center interfered; a year later, the elections of regional and city deputies. A sharp increase in tariffs will not add to voters' sympathy. Local authorities, on the one hand, have been hiding their heads in the sand for years, but they are in no hurry to follow the lines of SGK. The long-term slurred policy of the regional government in matters of heat supply (more precisely, its absence) is largely due to the fact that Vice Governor Sergey Semka is known as a lobbyist for the interests of SIBECO. For example, his recommendations to Governor Gorodetsky to raise the heat tariff immediately by 15 percent led two years ago to mass protests in Novosibirsk. As a result, thanks to such advice, the head of the region was quickly dismissed.



Once in the Novosibirsk region in political isolation, SGK, apparently, tried to include its lobbying opportunities in Moscow. The Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) breasted to defend the monopolist and forced the regional tariff department to raise the tariff from 1 July twice as much as planned. Local authorities complied, but filed a lawsuit against FAS. The city hall also began to snap back and did not want to destroy 59 local city boiler houses, as SGK required. The Ministry of Energy expectedly supported SGK in a dispute with the city hall, but municipal deputies and officials do not give up and are bending their line.

SGK is trying to establish a dialogue with the public in order to reconcile the townspeople with the thought that they will have to seriously fork out, as Ostap Bender would say. He even ordered his opponents (fighters against raising tariffs) to hold a conference to find a compromise.

“After this round table, I finally realized that the power engineers, experts, and our authorities would not agree with each other, - said the author professor of NSTU P.A. Schninnikov. - Only residents of Novosibirsk, local government voters, can force the governor, mayor and deputies to prevent a crisis in urban heat supply. ”
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 11 October 2019 06: 03
    +8
    The grimaces of capitalism.
    1. savage1976
      savage1976 11 October 2019 06: 33
      +15
      Rather, the complete absence in the country of both capitalism and socialism. Frozen somewhere on the half way and stomping without knowing where to go.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 11 October 2019 06: 56
        +9
        Quote: savage1976
        Rather, the complete absence in the country of both capitalism and socialism. Frozen somewhere halfway ...

        Our Russian capitalism is almost completely devoid of the production of goods. Such a speculative banking form ... And today its last stage is beginning. The fact that the upper classes do not want and cannot, because they do not know how, is understandable to everyone. More interesting, why do the lower classes still want and endure?
        I wonder what they will do on the street with a person who starts insulting everyone, demanding money, lying and boasting about the excess money surrounding wealthy people? Surely -angry
        Why are we still suffering?
        1. savage1976
          savage1976 11 October 2019 07: 16
          +8
          But the lower classes, alas, do not want, can not and can not. Such a feature. And on your question about the street, they will not do anything, they will pretend that this is not their problem. they won’t do anything in the case of a person who has lost consciousness on the street. Turn away and pass by.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 11 October 2019 07: 33
            +4
            Quote: savage1976
            But the lower classes, alas, do not want, can not and can not.

            For some reason, Stalin did not care. They created a system of vocational education, factories built, and alga.
            1. savage1976
              savage1976 11 October 2019 08: 24
              +4
              So the West didn’t care either. We created, without Stalin, the education system, the health care system, and the pension system, and we are all chasing them and cannot catch up.
              1. revnagan
                revnagan 11 October 2019 09: 50
                +6
                Quote: savage1976
                They created, without Stalin, an education system, a healthcare system, and a pension system.

                There is one very small difference. Even the tiniest one: Stalin created all this for ALL citizens of the USSR, but the West is NOT for all his citizens. And now, we are chasing. And during the times of the USSR, we overtook this by so much that they are up to us It was like before Moscow cancer.
                1. savage1976
                  savage1976 11 October 2019 13: 29
                  +3
                  Create a little, still need to hold on. Managed? No, and catch up again. And so the whole story can be traced. We lie on the stove, we found ourselves, we catch up, we overtook and lay on the stove while we recover.
                2. Simple
                  Simple 12 October 2019 14: 57
                  0
                  Quote: revnagan
                  .... but the West is NOT FOR ALL of its citizens.


                  Do not enter the people astray.

                  Quote: Blacksmith 55
                  each house has gas


                  Not really, there are entire neighborhoods in cities and suburbs with a centralized supply of hot water from local CHP plants during the heating period.
        2. Blacksmith 55
          Blacksmith 55 11 October 2019 09: 30
          +7
          In Europe, winter is certainly not so harsh. Siberia is Siberia, but even in the European part of Russia it is even very cold, he himself experienced it in the Orenburg region. up to 40 ° -.
          But, in Europe there is a different heating system, gas is supplied to each house (there is truth in the diesel fuel of the furnace) and again, in every house there is a gas furnace that heats the house and supplies it with hot water.
          After all, it is much easier to bring only the gas pipeline to the houses, it does not need to be isolated, it cannot freeze.
          True, you need to install furnaces of the appropriate capacity.
          To put the furnaces in the basements, 2 times a year to control and carry out maintenance.

          They will begin to criticize me, saying how much money is needed for this, but .... if nothing is done, then there is no need to complain that there are interruptions in heat.
          1. Old Orc
            Old Orc 11 October 2019 10: 07
            0
            The idea is good but. This will create an environmental problem. The situation will be similar to Mexico and Beijing in terms of smog.
            1. Blacksmith 55
              Blacksmith 55 11 October 2019 11: 39
              +2
              Why isn’t there such smog in Europe? In Mexico, I could not from heating, from cars and enterprises.
              Install treatment plants for heating, it is certainly more expensive but .....

              hohol95. I answer you immediately, the gas must undergo appropriate cleaning.
              And as for the potbelly stove, we’ll come to the Stone Age. It is only necessary to go forward, and .... yes, yes, invest in the future, because the climate in Russia, if it gets warmer, is not much.
              From what pocket these funds will be, this is another question, I think both the local administration and public utilities and residents should somehow participate in this.
              1. Old Orc
                Old Orc 11 October 2019 12: 00
                +2
                You are certainly right. But we must take into account the amount of fuel that needs to be burned in Europe with their warmer climate and in Novosibirsk where it is somewhat cooler for normal room temperature.
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2019 13: 02
                +1
                Blacksmith 55 (Peter Schmidt)
                Have you forgotten about the last gas explosions in the houses?
                And you really don’t know about ROSTEKHNADZOR’s initiative to transfer ALL houses to electric stoves. So that there would no longer be gas explosions in residential buildings.
                And your initiative to gasify the heating systems of every house in the country may be "hacked to death" and obliged to do everything on electric energy!
              3. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2019 14: 11
                -1
                Blacksmith 55 (Peter Schmidt). Do you respected reside in your own house or in a high-rise building with an elevator?
                1. Blacksmith 55
                  Blacksmith 55 11 October 2019 16: 41
                  +1
                  I’m on my own, but the children live in a high-rise building with an elevator. But they also have separate heating.
                  And the stove in my kitchen is electric.
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 11 October 2019 10: 12
            +1
            After all, it is much easier to bring only the gas pipeline to the houses, it does not need to be isolated, it cannot freeze.

            Not faced with freezing gas pipes.
            It all depends on the "moisture" of the gas flowing into the pipe.
            And you can, as in Poland - a "stove" in each apartment and heat with what "God sent"!
            To put the furnaces in the basements, 2 times a year to control and carry out maintenance.

            Have you met old houses with your own boiler houses?
            Do the houses in which you propose installing heating stoves have cellars or is it still a simple technical underground? And who will pay for the reconstruction of the house for a similar boiler room?
            There are a lot of questions - there will only be few answers.
            1. savage1976
              savage1976 11 October 2019 13: 33
              +3
              This is all there and gradually come back to this with the new modern buildings. New houses are being built with individual heating, and even in apartments an individual setting of heat consumption, most of the private houses in the central heating system with individual heating. But there are a huge number of old houses with central heating facilities; they cannot be rebuilt in one day.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 11 October 2019 14: 08
                0
                That's the whole point - there are few new houses. And there are many old ones! At the same time, they tried to install heating systems from hot water using heat exchangers in new houses. The idea didn't work. heat exchangers have proven to require systematic and competent maintenance. And where to get competent plumbers with education at the technical school level? And retraining costs money. So, in our city, the bulk of new houses (panel) also do not have any "left" heating systems except for the central heating.
                1. _Sergei_
                  _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 15: 04
                  0
                  And what is difficult in heat exchangers that a secondary technical education is needed? Back in 1980, in my workshop there was a heat exchanger for the shower room and a fitter Uncle Misha (I was 25, and he was 50) with 7 classes serviced this heat exchanger. Yes, at that time, a plumber with an education in 8 classes was hard to find. And if the hands are golden and the head on the shoulders with brains, three classes are enough.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 11 October 2019 15: 17
                    -1
                    I am very happy for your uncle Misha!
                    But our bosses did not like the fact that people began to demand an increase in salaries and normal tools for servicing such houses!
                    Your uncle Misha, how much did you serve if you take a unit of 9 floors and 36 apartments naturally with a basement and an attic per unit?
                    And with electronic thermal nodes, he also famously managed?
                    1. _Sergei_
                      _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 15: 53
                      0
                      Shop. 400 pieces of equipment. Plus workshop heating systems, ventilation. I had 7 plumbers in the workshop, 2 of them in shifts.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 11 October 2019 16: 08
                        -1
                        Just great! Workshop what worked out ??? Shops are different. At the sewage treatment plant there is a workshop for rough water treatment - there is a filtration of effluents from large garbage. staff 2 women. And ventilation does not save from hydrogen sulfide! But so is the workshop.
                        What does the workshop mean? There are different workshops ...
                        But again, you had them in one particular area.
                        A housing fitter can have soybean houses scattered across an area in several of these workshops!
                        Now I don’t remember exactly, but for a couple of locksmiths there were about 20 entrances in 10-14 floors. And working with residents every day is for you ...
                        ROSTEKHNADZOR will push the idea of ​​universal electrification and we will cook on electric stoves and be heated by electric heaters or electric poles! But there will be no gas ...
                      2. _Sergei_
                        _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 17: 21
                        0
                        The workshop produced a transmission on BMP
          3. parma
            parma 11 October 2019 13: 53
            +3
            Quote: Blacksmith 55
            But, in Europe there is a different heating system, gas is supplied to each house (there is truth in the diesel fuel of the furnace) and again, in every house there is a gas furnace that heats the house and supplies it with hot water.

            It’s easy to say things that you don’t know much about ... I don’t want to protect the oligarchs, but unfortunately the individual heating system is not compatible with the existing energy in our country. The reason is simple - the production of heat and electric energy in our country is inseparably linked ... Or rather (in order not to go into details), the problem is that even during the USSR, the path to the simultaneous generation of heat and electricity was chosen - this reduces the efficiency of generation and heat and electricity in comparison with separate production, but it increases the efficiency of fuel use in principle (well, our grandfathers did not plan in the 30s that the country would fall apart and capitalism would come). It means that simply switching to a new scheme will not work - save on heat, pay more for light ... Changing equipment at stations is also a question both in terms of economy and technology (even in the USSR we did not have the best boilers and turbines in the world and over the past 30 years it has only gotten worse) .. So the question arises of replacing heating networks (I am well acquainted with the problem, for the power engineer himself, only from Yekaterinburg), but the question is complicated ... To just blame power engineers for this figure out who previously owned and what he did with these networks (term with after 30 years after all) .. A separate question is the amount of work and the number of contractors - for example, in our city there is a wild undeveloped allocation of money from a heating network company, because there are not enough contractors ready to work normally for adequate money (let everyone arrive at 30-40%, and not 10-15% as estimated) ..
            In a general article, a big minus, for insufficient study of the problems ....
            1. Blacksmith 55
              Blacksmith 55 11 October 2019 17: 16
              +1
              Parma, I have been living here since '93, so I write what I know.
              This and the goat understand that at once all the houses can not be converted to modern heating, but you need to change it. Build new, modern, insulated.
              Indeed, individual heating has another advantage, if something happens, then in the same house, and not in the whole district or even the city.
        3. AA17
          AA17 11 October 2019 11: 26
          +2
          Dear, ROSS 42 (region 42). “Why do we still endure?” Because we have all become philistines. "The bourgeoisie is an estate, what now we would call by American standards the" low-middle class ", that is," the lower-middle class. "We still have something to lose. The brains of many are programmed:" Everyone can become a millionaire, you just have to want. We need to work more: 10 hours a day, 16 hours a day, 24 hours a day. "This is what today's Power is based on. Alas, this is a myth.
          "... Russia again entered the TOP-5 of the most working countries. For the second year in a row, our country ranks fifth out of 37 in terms of workload in the list of leading countries in the world, ahead of all G7 countries, including the USA, Germany and Japan. This is stated in a report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). In 2017, Russians began to work six hours more than in 2016: each employed person spent an average of 1 hours at work. ... "Source: https: / /www.buhgalteria.ru/news/n980 © Accounting.ru
        4. d.olegov44
          d.olegov44 11 October 2019 14: 06
          +2
          Why are we still suffering?


          Because we are normal men, and not some Ukrainians, not bulked up and not French gay men, yellow vests.

          By the way, about Ukrainians: we are told here every fall how Ukrainians freeze in winter without our gas, but in fact Novosib freezes. How is that? request
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 11 October 2019 06: 56
        +1
        That's really really, grimaces .... you can / need too many to blame! However, we live now, people pay regularly ... and there are a lot of people who want this "sweet cake". So why don't they follow the rightness of the entrusted / their feeder ??? Or, again, temporary workers, pulled out everything they could and let's go to the "golden sands" to warm the belly?
        We have supervising, "king's people" shouldn't they watch this?
      3. Vanek
        Vanek 15 October 2019 11: 57
        0
        Quote: savage1976
        Rather, the complete absence in the country of both capitalism and socialism. Frozen somewhere on the half way and stomping without knowing where to go.


        Nah. Continuous just the same capitalism. In all its perverted forms.

        hi
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 11 October 2019 06: 15
    +2
    ... you want to live, pay for everything, you will do well, you didn’t survive .. the user .. into the furnace ...
  3. ivagulin
    ivagulin 11 October 2019 06: 42
    +5
    "The Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) stood up to the defense of the monopolist" as it is, theater of the absurd
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 15 October 2019 11: 58
      -1
      Quote: ivagulin
      how it is


      This is when the bees are for honey. Yeah wink

      hi
  4. _Sergei_
    _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 06: 48
    -1
    The author is probably not in the subject. SGK bought not only obsolete TPPs, but also almost never repaired networks. And in a year she had to start doing reconstruction of the thermal power station and start replacing all the networks. Why did SGK come. Because the old owners wanted to raise tariffs, but did nothing.
    1. _Sergei_
      _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 07: 07
      +2
      Let the author read at his leisure "On the electric power industry (as amended on August 2, 2019) (version valid from August 13, 2019)"
      Where it is said that there should be one energy supplying organization in the city. And in general, experts who have never been illiterate have started writing articles recently. The stupid the article, the more it is discussed.
      1. avia12005
        11 October 2019 07: 19
        +7
        The dumber the commentator is, the more he fancies himself an expert. You better tell us how the adoption of this law in its current edition was lobbied by the energy monopolists and the billionaire Melnichenko, the owner of the SGK and the world's largest private yacht. And where does "one power supply organization" have to do with it?
        By the way, this person is included in the 100-ku of Russian billionaires, occupying the 92 place. Where does the dough come from? And why some of it does not go to repair heating systems?
        1. Old Orc
          Old Orc 11 October 2019 10: 14
          +3
          Quote: avia12005
          And why some of it does not go to repair heating systems?

          Because it is already his money, and spending it on repairs is not comme il faut. The money in your pocket is also his money that you withhold from it. And as soon as you pay they will become his money. which means that it is impossible to start up for repair. and here we get such a vicious circle. They are looking for how to break it at round tables but how to find it.
          1. avia12005
            11 October 2019 11: 46
            +3
            Three times ha. SGK offshore office, even taxes, unlike Gazprom or Rostec, pays there. And the Siberians in this case are just slaves who contain this boatman.
            1. Burchalkin
              Burchalkin 12 October 2019 14: 51
              0
              It's not true. SGK is registered in Moscow. CHPs - in the cities where they operate (Novosibirsk - in Novosibirsk). Taxes are paid, respectively, in the Russian Federation, and not "there".
              1. avia12005
                12 October 2019 15: 03
                +1
                Do not own the situation at all. CHP in Novosibirsk are structural divisions of SIBEKO and not even a legal entity. And about SGK read on the Krasnoyarsk sites.
                1. Burchalkin
                  Burchalkin 12 October 2019 15: 06
                  0
                  And where is SIBEKO registered?
                  1. avia12005
                    12 October 2019 15: 11
                    0
                    SIBEKO was bought by SGK in the summer and autumn of last year from ZK Abyzov.
                    1. Burchalkin
                      Burchalkin 12 October 2019 15: 13
                      0
                      Well, where is the Novosibirsk branch of SGK registered?
                      1. avia12005
                        12 October 2019 15: 16
                        +2
                        He is a branch in Africa and a branch. I have no time, no desire to look for this known information for you. http://krasvremya.ru/kiprskaya-generiruyushhaya-kompaniya/, Google knows everything and the Internet is full of information on this topic.
                      2. Burchalkin
                        Burchalkin 12 October 2019 15: 23
                        0
                        Well, for sure, owners of owners of owners are important for the tax, and not the enterprise itself. Google really knows everything, including their legal address - 630099, Novosibirsk, ul. Chaplygina, 57. He also knows the list of the largest taxpayers in the Novosibirsk region, which also has SIBEKO https://ksonline.ru/344842/top10-nalogoplatelshhikov-nso-2019/
        2. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 10: 17
          +1
          Previously, SIBTEK was engaged in heating Novosibirsk, which bought coal from the same SGK. No money was invested in the reconstruction of the CHPP and the networks were repaired only where there were gusts. SGK is currently invested in the reconstruction of thermal power plants and heating systems. To Novosibirsk on a drum who floats on what. The main thing is that the apartments should be warm. What during SIBTEK was warmer in the city and heating systems did not break?
          1. avia12005
            11 October 2019 11: 50
            0
            Look at the bounce schedule in the article. What is SIBTEK, I don’t know, I know SIBEKO. And SGK transferred to brown coal Melnichenko from Achinsk quarries almost all thermal power plants. Novosibirsk is the leader in oncology. And two new gas boiler houses Kirovskaya and Kalininskaya, which heated houses in 150 districts of thousands of people each, were closed and dismantled.
            1. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 12: 36
              +1
              Sorry SIBECO was wrong.
            2. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 11 October 2019 13: 13
              +2
              all the difficulty is that they mixed everything in a heap. power generation and accident. heating networks and thermal power plants. what is happening now is called a cascade. and in order to get to this, you need not to engage in energy supply of the city for decades. heating networks taken from the city for rent. 600 million rubles go to the city budget for them annually. of which only 350 are sent for their development. 250, as I understand it, goes to close other holes in the budget. this is a stupid decision by the authorities. All that was built in the Union had an average of 25 years of service. technologies have changed and now you can do everything by laying in time twice as much. but at such speeds as 5 km per year, something will not work. and a cascade of accidents began, the number of which will only become larger. what is happening now is called who will shift the responsibility to whom. More precisely, who will force someone to pay. they spend time and money on shtetl disassemblies and wait for the federal budget to solve all their difficulties. it already happened. as for the owner of the company and his yachts and the rest, do not mix personal status with the company. it’s not the same thing. The solution is actually not very complicated, but it will take time. I’m just looking instead of a decision, conferences are being held at you and everyone is blabbering again
              1. avia12005
                11 October 2019 13: 49
                +3
                This is not a stupid decision of the authorities, but a deliberate money laundering and transferring them to the private pocket of Melnichenko and the authorities themselves.
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 11 October 2019 14: 26
                  +1
                  then it's even more stupid. I don’t know the specifics of their relationship, but the fact that this is the fault at the heart of the municipal authorities is immediately obvious.
          2. Vanek
            Vanek 15 October 2019 12: 07
            +1
            Quote: _Sergey_
            To Novosibirsk on a drum who floats on what.


            This would be a yacht (cost, service, staff ...), but in the heating system.

            Quote: _Sergey_
            Novosibirsk


            You, Sergey, don’t take much on yourself.

            Look.

            Do you have a yacht?
            1. _Sergei_
              _Sergei_ 15 October 2019 15: 27
              0
              Two yachts. With one granddaughter in the bathroom, a grandson plays with another.
        3. balunn
          balunn 11 October 2019 11: 59
          +2
          The question must be asked differently and to other people. Namely, how did it happen that the strategic enterprises of thermal power generation actually fell into private hands. Such a mess in most cities.
          1. _Sergei_
            _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 12: 44
            +2
            They have long been all in private hands. Only private traders can be bold, but sometimes not very.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 11 October 2019 08: 03
      0
      Quote: _Sergey_
      Because the old owners wanted to raise tariffs, but did nothing.
      And what about the new altruists? wink
      1. _Sergei_
        _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 10: 22
        0
        Heat carrier tariffs were raised in 2018 and will not change until 2024. If earlier it was possible to blame the growth of tariffs on the growth of wages of workers, now now until 2024 the tariff should be stable. If your rates are rising, then contact your HOA or the company that specifically services your homes.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 11 October 2019 10: 54
          0
          Quote: _Sergey_
          Heat carrier tariffs were raised in 2018 and will not change until 2024.

          Have you ever thought that it is cheaper to heat water and heat a house / apartment, having a gas boiler from the main gas at home? MUCH cheaper than they impose on us through artificially created monopolies. Moreover, heating water with an electric boller costs exactly the same as heat suppliers. Where does pricing come from? After all, thermal power plants heat water with steam, which is produced initially to generate electricity. Accordingly, DHW is recycled, and water should be cheaper.
          You say (reassure) that prices are not rising. They are already bullied ten times higher than the cost.
          1. _Sergei_
            _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 11: 19
            -1
            How and how to heat your house depends only on the homeowners. If there is gas, then do your boiler room in the basement and heating will be much cheaper than from CHP networks.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 11 October 2019 11: 40
              0
              There is no gas, and no one in the basement will allow the boiler room to be made. But my question was different - here you, as a person protecting newly-minted monopolists, can answer why the prices of thermal power plants are higher than independent heating? After all, it should be different, otherwise why should this monopoly take place at all, let's put gas into each apartment, oblige the owners to supply a double-circuit gas boiler - and that’s all, no more moaning about how hard and expensive it is to maintain heating systems. wink Modern boilers are absolutely safe, horror stories about explosions will not work. bully
              1. _Sergei_
                _Sergei_ 11 October 2019 12: 40
                -1
                My daughter has a gas boiler room in the yard that heats their house, school and kindergarten. Heating is cheaper than from coal-fired power plants. I do not defend SGK, but compared with what it was and that there are now two big differences. Nobody works for nothing, everyone wants to make a profit.
                1. kvakin
                  kvakin 11 October 2019 13: 41
                  0
                  Quote: _Sergey_
                  My daughter has a gas boiler room in the yard that heats their house, school and kindergarten. Heating is cheaper than from coal-fired power plants.

                  Nobody argues, but in general there is NO gas for Siberia, all gas goes to the European part of the country and to all kinds of "streams" Turkish, northern1, northern2, through Ukraine that goes there - Friendship. We found a tiny field in Omsk (Omsk residents will be 50-70 years old), that's just why we learned that there is such a resource - natural gas, for the last 20 years they have been gasifying something there. And in Novosibirsk, is there something close to gas (I just don't know)? If not, to heat with liquefied or something, well, so it is 20 times more expensive than natural.
                  1. avia12005
                    11 October 2019 13: 49
                    +2
                    Gas has been supplied to Novosibirsk.
                  2. Burchalkin
                    Burchalkin 12 October 2019 14: 47
                    +1
                    There is gas in Novosibirsk. And there are boiler rooms on it. But they regularly find themselves on the verge of bankruptcy, because coal is cheaper.
          2. balunn
            balunn 11 October 2019 15: 04
            0
            we also have a monopolist in gas ... Gazprom is called
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 11 October 2019 16: 23
              +1
              Gazprom is not engaged only in bringing to houses and connecting.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 12 October 2019 08: 08
                0
                Yes. But if the subsidiaries of Gazprom even TNT and Moscow echo are engaged, then it is somehow strange that third-party companies are engaged in gas supply. Do not find?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 12 October 2019 12: 15
                  0
                  I don’t find it - if I sell products, should I help each buyer to take them home and put them in the refrigerator?
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 12 October 2019 18: 42
                    0
                    Large networks offer delivery, and make good money on it.
  5. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 11 October 2019 06: 49
    -1
    Novosibirsk is waiting for a hard winter

    What a sad news ... crying And if at a direct meeting to tell a fairy tale? belay And in Kuzbass, winter promises to be warm and snowy ... good Yes ... Mr. Melnichenko will have a well-to-do old age and a house somewhere in an alpine village or on a "cool" azure coast.
    Quote: Pessimist22
    The grimaces of capitalism.

    Yes, there is no longer a grimace. Then the evil grin.
    The construction of large cities in Siberia is associated with certain problems of the duration of the winter period. Where else in the world in such latitudes are millionaire cities?
    One thing is clear. The people were again asked to pay for the "unforeseen" expenses of the oligarchs and the mediocrity of bureaucrats ...
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 11 October 2019 13: 23
      +1
      if now socialism, at least everything would be the same. the cascade cannot be avoided by a change of order in the country. do you have a summer cottage just imagine that at one point you stopped doing it for a couple of years. and then we decided to return, but you can cultivate and work only on one square meter per year. can you normally grow something on it? what’s even worse is that even if there is a lot of money for solutions now, all the same, the years will go for a solution and not 2-3, but much more
  6. Potato
    Potato 11 October 2019 07: 50
    0
    Novosibirsk guys! They jammed you. There is a way - go to the center and to the south. In general - who can where. Well, it's cold there, and nobody needs it. Throw it. The Chinese then normally populate.

    Thank you for understanding! Your V.V.
  7. sergo1914
    sergo1914 11 October 2019 08: 22
    +6
    And what do you want? Our sambo school has given the country more oligarchs than Harvard.
  8. BAI
    BAI 11 October 2019 08: 42
    +4
    The first photo is valid. Everything is as it should be - one works, three go around in circles.
    1. Potato
      Potato 11 October 2019 09: 01
      +1
      Are you a manager?) That is, in your opinion, one should be a driver - bring gas welding and cylinders. Then dig out the pipe alone. Then cut off the bad area, pull it out, insert a new one, brew it, bury it, even it out ... Yes, you are a redneck of space, sir! Or a typical manager)))
  9. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 11 October 2019 09: 50
    +1
    Everything is like in Krylov’s fable about the cat Vaska. Not all exhortations, his appetite does not disappear, he eats for himself and eats.
  10. yehat
    yehat 11 October 2019 13: 58
    +2
    Novosibirsk has a special infrastructure
    it is scattered over a vast area and making fully centralized heating is too expensive for residents - there are simply too few of them. On the contrary, it is necessary to develop a network of thermal power plants, but even in this case, the content of the routes will result in a pretty penny.
    It seems to me that significant benefits can be achieved by combining the objectives of the CHP to service enterprises and nearby residential areas. The Chubais isolation must be eliminated and back to support for this scheme, which was actively working in the USSR.
    The most important thing is not to do it as always - for example, to upgrade CHP plants with cheap Chinese boilers, the effectiveness of which is outdated and the operation of networks is normal.
    It is obvious that repairs in winter are much more expensive and useless than scheduled maintenance, mainly in summer. Just like asphalt instead of patches, it is much more profitable to change the entire canvas.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 October 2019 14: 30
      +2
      I would not say that there are few inhabitants in Novosibirsk, more than 1600000 people live. And the city definitely has enough money, with VGP more than 900 billion rubles.
      1. yehat
        yehat 11 October 2019 14: 35
        -1
        Novosibirsk has a diameter of about 150 km
        approximately as in St. Petersburg, and the population is 5-6 times smaller
        and heating pipelines will have to be approximately equal in value
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 October 2019 16: 34
          +2
          Novosibirsk has a total area of ​​502 kilometers squared - how can it be 150 kilometers in diameter?
          1. yehat
            yehat 11 October 2019 16: 42
            -2
            Novosib has a very wide urban line, although it is rather narrowly built in the center and along the roads
            so it turns out that mercy is not ale but the size of ogogo
      2. avia12005
        11 October 2019 15: 55
        +2
        The budget of Novosib 43 lard, an area near 140
  11. iouris
    iouris 11 October 2019 15: 14
    -1
    Sorry, is Novosibirsk Ukraine?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 October 2019 16: 26
      +1
      Novosibirsk is Russia, and like all Russian cities, Novosibirsk has communication problems - the depreciation of funds is from 50 to 70%.
  12. illi
    illi 11 October 2019 17: 34
    0
    Go to the website of butterfly lovers and roll out a post about the hard life of the village of Garelovo. There is a bunch of political platforms in Russia, why is there such a thing?
  13. Lexus
    Lexus 11 October 2019 23: 09
    -4
    Hello the third millennium in the science city of Novosibirsk! As in the rest of the world ..
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 12 October 2019 12: 24
      0
      Such problems were everywhere and always - and there was nothing to inflate from the flies of mammoths.
  14. Burchalkin
    Burchalkin 12 October 2019 14: 44
    0
    Quote: smith 55
    In Europe, winter is certainly not so harsh. Siberia is Siberia, but even in the European part of Russia it is even very cold, he himself experienced it in the Orenburg region. up to 40 ° -.
    But, in Europe there is a different heating system, gas is supplied to each house (there is truth in the diesel fuel of the furnace) and again, in every house there is a gas furnace that heats the house and supplies it with hot water.
    They will begin to criticize me, saying how much money is needed for this, but .... if nothing is done, then there is no need to complain that there are interruptions in heat.


    The point is not how much money is needed for this, but how much it will be necessary to pay after that. Compare rates in Europe and in Russia. The Soviet (Russian) system is not so convenient, but much more economical.
  15. nikvic46
    nikvic46 13 October 2019 06: 02
    +2
    So the Council of Ministers did not cope with this problem, and decided to present this problem to scientists. Now there are these Councils in every major city, as in a civil war. This is not a Council of Economic Council for three cities. This is so that they dig deeper. Just digging with toy shovels . Why else? The whole staff is in full set. Including ministers and a church worker. And you can spit on pensioners, although they themselves are pensioners for a long time. And the scientist, instead of engaging in direct affairs, will delve into how to improve the city.
  16. vanavatny
    vanavatny 13 October 2019 19: 53
    +1
    and how much we have worn out housing and communal services? there the numbers are such that it’s just right to beat the bells at night ... as I remember now, in the center of the central black earth city of my childhood. the street was completely opened and some giant pipes were being replaced, beginning of the eighties ... since then only welders have been cooking something in freshly dug pits, after the steam begins to pour with boiling water out of the ground, recently they gave heating and flowed along the main street ... and on the outskirts, after all, even in Soviet times everything was not good everywhere, but it became even darker, and it seems to me that the population will not pull a replacement, ck just don’t explain that there is no other way out within the framework of the legal field. However, if the government still draws the plans for the offensive, relying on the same made-up cards, then you can soon see plus one thousand other in the payment system, if the average salary figure is not taken from and the deterioration is critical, but there is no money, but you ...
  17. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 17 October 2019 10: 42
    +2
    No bombing or enemy attacks needed. An careless and greedy pest official will do more damage than any Tomahawk.
    1. Klaus
      Klaus 20 October 2019 01: 01
      +1
      here's the thing: officials, as a subspecies of social parasites, do not appear out of nowhere. This requires a nutrient medium, a system. If we discard all the streamlined word forms, then this parasitic system is called the "vertical of power", which has been so carefully built all these years. And here the very principle of construction is very important: it was necessary faster, easier and from what is at hand. As a result, we have a "leaning tower of Pisa" made of rotten boards and rusty nails. This construct, even if propped up with fresh logs from the "siloviki" and surrounded by police props and crutches, is doomed to crumble under its own weight. This is not even an assumption, it is a law of nature, and it will be so.
  18. Blacksmith
    Blacksmith 20 October 2019 15: 09
    -1
    Record breakthroughs, jerks should be in all areas of the country's life. One cannot exist without the other.
  19. signifera
    signifera 22 October 2019 09: 53
    0
    For the sake of interest, I counted the heating system in the apartment. A closed system, a wood-burning stove ... It turned out much cheaper than centralized heating! Which this year was given only in October! Although in Kuzbass already 15.09. It's not warmer here. Around the house, the sgk are constantly digging their communications. Every three months approximately. He came up and asked. I say what are you constantly digging here? Are your hands so crooked that you can't do it the first time? Answer: we have no pipes. We wrap it with tin in two layers, just enough to close the hole for a couple of months. Why round tables, forums, scientists? They have no pipes. And why they are not - the prosecutor's office should already figure it out, I think. And why do they need pipes when they can "bury" money so well. Each time a new asphalt, etc. So many costs, a lot of contractors, no one will reveal the cash flows. And for accidents that begin in winter, you can certainly add emergency sources to the budget. Today is 22.10. half of the city has been dug up, everywhere their ginger nets are stretched, some of the roads are blocked, especially in the yards. I can't get to the kindergarten, there are already three holes at the entrance. Almost every day the emergency gang goes around the yard. Hot water that is, it is not. However, here as elsewhere. We must start from the head.