Military Review

NI: Copying the technology of Soviet carrier-based fighter jets without a license "left China sideways"

199
The US media believes that China’s attempt to copy the technology of carrier-based fighter aircraft for aircraft carriers, instead of acquiring them from Russia, came to China sideways. Aircraft developed on the basis of the Su-33 prototype purchased from Ukraine turned out to be problematic and ineffective.




China is increasing its military power from year to year. However, despite the fact that the largest economy in the world is actively financing its army, money is not always the only thing needed to develop its own effective weapons systems. The attempt to save often turns out to be much more global spending for the state. And a good example of this is the J-15 Chinese carrier-based fighter project.

NI recalls that the J-15 is an unlicensed copy of the Russian (Soviet) Su-33 carrier fighter, which is a deck modification of the Su-27. China, wanting to save money, refused to buy Su-33 from Russia and purchased a prototype Su-33 T-10K-3 from Ukraine, and then redesigned it without acquiring documents for the use of technology.

The American edition of National Interest dissects the problems of the Chinese "decks", additionally drawing on a stinging article from the Sputnik news agency.

In Chinese circles, they rarely show love for the fourth-generation J-15 jet aircraft. The Asia Times notes that China’s media has been dismissive of the plane, including calling it a “floppy fish” for its inability to work effectively with a Chinese aircraft carrier (for now, Liaoning - VO note).


The main problem of J-15 is that at the moment they are forced to use Soviet technology and carry out a springboard start. J-15 engines and heavy weight seriously limit the effectiveness of the fighter: with an empty mass of 17,5 tons, it exceeds the weight usual for carrier-based fighters. The weight of the empty F-18, for comparison, is 14,5 t, Su-33 - 16 tons.

Unreliable and prone to accidents


J-15 turned out to be unreliable, prone to accidents and mechanical breakdowns by aircraft. Various types of malfunctions in flight control systems led to at least four accidents. There is evidence of the death of at least one pilot and severely injured another. National Interest notes that this is apparently the result of unsuccessful copying of technology, and suggests that China is seeking to replace fighter jets with promising J-31 as soon as possible.

At the same time, the American publication did not fail to recall that “The Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of“ acquiring ”Western technology without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles”.

This is actually a dubious achievement, an admission that the nation does not have the ability to truly implement its own technology. Given that China has such a habit, there is justice here.

- writes an American magazine, hinting that China has "avenged" Russia for the "theft" of technology from the West. This is despite the fact that in the US they constantly say that the Chinese are constantly stealing technology from them.
199 comments
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  1. Andrey Chistyakov
    Andrey Chistyakov 6 October 2019 08: 31
    +4
    If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!
    1. raw174
      raw174 6 October 2019 08: 42
      +8
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

      In this case, "stealing" does not mean exactly theft, the technologies are outdated and are no longer cherished, it can only formally ... With the same success, they can "steal" ICE production technologies, from Americans, for example ...
      1. Fff
        Fff 6 October 2019 17: 11
        -16
        Su-33 itself is a problem, copy - do not copy, you won’t make candy out of shit
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 6 October 2019 18: 38
          +8
          China, wanting to save money, refused to buy Su-33 from Russia and purchased a prototype Su-33 T-10K-3 from Ukraine, and then redesigned it without acquiring documents for the use of technology.

          IMHO, the Chinese no one proposed to buy Su-33. There was no friendship like that now. So they had to get hungry.
          For those who believe that today's China can copy everything, let me remind you - spare engines for the Su-35 were one of the main reasons for acquiring aircraft. And Pakistan for Chinese aircraft acquires engines from Russia. hi
    2. Kontrik
      Kontrik 6 October 2019 08: 42
      +32
      Copying technology is not so simple .. I remember the memoirs of Soviet rockets ..: When the German Fau rocket was disassembled and studied, there were about 1500 of various metal alloys that were not produced in Russia .. So, in fact, everything had to be started from scratch .. And that's all Well, the Chinese fellows, especially do not invent a bicycle .. try, try ..
      By the way, the contemptuous "Fu Chinese assembly ..!"
      It’s easier for Chinese instructors and engineers to make mistakes (a lot of money) .. But alas, our scientists can’t .. Russia is in a military political blockade and at any moment, you can wait for a preemptive strike .. Let’s fight for sure, but .. soldier
      1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        SERGEY SERGEEVICS 6 October 2019 09: 00
        -3
        Copying technology is not so easy
        Only for those countries that do not have specialists who could recreate all this and factories, while China has everything.
        By the way, the contemptuous "Fu Chinese assembly ..!"
        Probably do not go anywhere, from this and do not hear these words. They were, and are.
        It’s easier for Chinese instructors and engineers to make mistakes (a lot of money) .. But, alas, our scientists cannot.
        On the contrary, they can be punished for their mistake, but we won’t have anything for it (they can only reprimand a maximum) and nothing more.
        1. igog
          igog 6 October 2019 10: 53
          +23
          Lagged behind life. China is modern and 30-a year ago, two huge differences.
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            SERGEY SERGEEVICS 6 October 2019 11: 47
            -4
            Quote: igog
            Lagged behind life. China is modern and 30-a year ago, two huge differences.
            About the fact that modern China, any technology can reproduce in practice, it now has the means and specialists for this.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 October 2019 19: 38
              +9
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              About the fact that modern China, any technology can reproduce in practice

              Well, where are the Chinese aircraft engines for Chinese fighters? :)))
              1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 October 2019 07: 51
                -2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                About the fact that modern China, any technology can reproduce in practice

                Well, where are the Chinese aircraft engines for Chinese fighters? :)))

                In China, where else can they be, another thing is what they are in terms of quality and power. Just do not have to write that they do not have them, they have them, but only the quality and power desires the best.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 October 2019 08: 43
                  +5
                  Huh. And so it turns out, you write that the Chinese are able to copy any technology, but in practice they have not been able to copy the 70's aircraft engine of development for a quarter of a century - the quality is not that
                  1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 October 2019 09: 06
                    -2
                    And so it turns out, you write that the Chinese are able to copy any technology,
                    Well, maybe he copied the engine that uses now, and the engine that can not copy, I wrote the reason for this.
          2. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 6 October 2019 16: 11
            +11
            Hello!! You are wrong, China in 2008 and now there is a big difference, The starting point began then, The slogan "PERSONNEL DECIDES EVERYTHING" has been declared by the state policy of the authorities, It has become prestigious to be an engineer, agronomist, doctor, etc., China appealed to all Chinese living abroad If YOU can build high-quality skills, organizational skills, have a high-quality education, help your native country, And unas that year we forgot, hurray, we buy OPEL and such nonsense, China used the accumulated dollars to acquire the latest technologies and build new enterprises, since the crisis helped the United States could not stop this process, rescued General Motors remember. And where we invested savings, We saved the banks, After eliminating the consequences of the accident at the hydroelectric power station, and slowly spent money on the Olympics in SOCHI, and that's it, So they built slowly slowly, The result five years later, when most of the newest industries entered the building, the country rushed forward, I looked on TV how they blew up a 15-kilometer 30-year-old automobile bridge with 4-lane traffic, Became a bottleneck for a new highway, And an eight-lane bridge was built in the distance, China bought a hundred high-speed express trains from the French and the technology and production is complete, We just bought several express trains from the Germans and are happy , What is the difference between them from us, China develops projects and plans for five years, and only for two years less often three, What can be built or designed for this period, Nothing, only the Ministry of Defense designs its plans for five or more years, the rest themselves you know, Yes, they no longer copy, but slowly begin to apply their own developments and solutions,
            1. the most important
              the most important 6 October 2019 18: 52
              +2
              Quote: igor.borov775
              What is the difference between them and us

              First of all, it is the responsibility of the authorities. They think about the people and the country. What our government thinks is not known to anyone ...
              1. Rey_ka
                Rey_ka 7 October 2019 13: 28
                -1
                Given that all production is in the hands of private owners, it is logical that the development of technology is a headache for these owners. and where does the power?
            2. hrych
              hrych 7 October 2019 00: 59
              +4
              Quote: igor.borov775
              And we forgot the cheers that year, we buy OPEL and all that nonsense,

              That year, Mil Man, we shouted Hurray to the Georgian aggressors. Then the Abkhaz coast became ours. Apparently this is nonsense for you. And we got rid of American securities, and the Chinese have them for a trillion by the way ..
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 7 October 2019 12: 47
                0
                Very great things, it’s hard to even appreciate. A serious enemy was overwhelmed. True, this people has always been considered ours. Our emperor was a Georgian not so long ago. Many people remember that they carry flowers to the monument. At first they were let off, and then a great victory. Mdya .... And about Masonic wrappers here in general ...
                1. hrych
                  hrych 15 October 2019 02: 46
                  0
                  First, after the cleansing of South Ossetia, Georgia would have joined NATO with a solution to its problems, but this is not the main thing, the battle was for control of the Greater Caucasus Range and the Abkhazian water area of ​​the Transcaucasian foothills. From Ossetia, the connection of the Big Range with the Small Range begins, through the Likh Range and which, cutting through Georgia, connects with our allied Armenia. There is also a hole in the ridge - the Roki tunnel is extremely important. Taking into account our positions in the Caspian, we continue to dominate in the Transcaucasus, and the enemy there is in a depressing position. And that's why he has nothing to do there. Also, interest has disappeared in Ukraine without Crimea and Donbass. The Ichkerians tried to wipe us off the Ridge, but it did not work, now here is our Ridge, and these are not just dominant heights, but a fortress with walls thousands of meters and it is important whose radars are on them. And the Ridge is the protection of our grain belly, well, you "eh", so "eh". More apparently nothing came to mind. And the emperor, or the secretary general, there is no difference, he was an enemy to our people, although in a certain sense he saved the country and the ethnic group, but nevertheless ... you shouldn't pray for him.
            3. Vlad.by
              Vlad.by 7 October 2019 17: 08
              0
              Then a trillion-plus “accumulated” greens lie in the American Treasuries. Not so everything is wonderful there in the economy
            4. Bratkov Oleg
              Bratkov Oleg 7 October 2019 17: 40
              +2
              Because in China, the Communist Party is in power, and, as the great Lenin bequeathed, takes all the best from capitalism and communism.
        2. venik
          venik 6 October 2019 11: 16
          +8
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          Copying technology is not so easy
          Only for those countries that do not have specialists who could recreate all this and factories, while China has everything.

          =======
          Alas! It is not that simple! The technique is getting harder and harder! And here neither the number of specialists, nor the number of plants can sometimes be DECIDED! There are more than enough Americans and those (specialists) and another (factories), and how much they were busy trying to figure out HOW C-300 works ..... I don’t even speak about the Chinese - it wasn’t completely possible least!
          ------
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          Probably do not go anywhere, from this and do not hear these words ("Fu Chinese assembly!"). They are as they were.

          =========
          Have you seen a lot of non-Chinese assembly (household appliances for example) ??? Yes, all these "indesites", "wirepools", "moulinexes" and protruding and prototyping - either Chinese assembly or Russian extreme (but rarely) ...
          Somehow I asked the seller of electrical goods about the origin of the food processor ("Mulinex" seems to be) - made in China? He looked at me as "mentally retarded", shrugged his shoulders and snorted: "WHAT is now being done NOT in China?"
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            SERGEY SERGEEVICS 6 October 2019 12: 21
            0
            Alas! It is not that simple! The technique is getting harder and harder!
            And what from this? so people do not stand still, they also create this technology.
            And here neither the number of specialists, nor the number of plants can sometimes be DECIDED!
            It is just all this that decides, that’s all.
            Look at the Americans and that (specialists) and the other (plants) more than enough, but how much they were busy trying to figure out HOW does C-300 work .....
            Only striped specialists and these factories operate near China. As for C-300, it cannot be disassembled by its physical qualities, there are special protections that cannot be circumvented, they are automatically destroyed at autopsy.
            I don’t even speak about the Chinese - because of this, it was never succeeded in full!
            ------
            The same thing with them and the aircraft engine, too, can not be disassembled, there are also secrets that work automatically.
            Have you seen a lot NOT of the Chinese assembly (household appliances for example) ???
            Of course, I can give more examples on weapons, since the themes are weapons, and on technology too.
            Somehow I asked the seller of electrical goods about the origin of the food processor ("Mulinex" seems to be) - made in China? He looked at me as "mentally retarded", shrugged his shoulders and snorted: "WHAT is now being done NOT in China?"
            I wrote about this and it is often said that this garbage is complete.
            1. region58
              region58 6 October 2019 22: 08
              +4
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              The same thing with them and the aircraft engine, too, can not be disassembled, there are also secrets that work automatically.

              The main secret of the engine is the turbine blade. And remove it and copy the form - no problem. But to do the same - figs to you ... The nuances begin: material, additives, temperature, speed and other conditions of melt cooling to get directional crystallization, or even a single crystal, internal cooling cavities ... - these are the technologies that have very Not everyone. They wrote that in the nineties, Americans came to us in VIAM and were very persuaded to show how we do it.
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              As for C-300, it cannot be disassembled by its physical qualities, there are special protections that cannot be circumvented, they are automatically destroyed at autopsy.

              Not without this, of course, but, the simplest example: they will give you a ROM chip with a program in machine codes, and neither the system architecture, nor the operation algorithms are known, even where the program starts from is unknown (it may be far from the first physical bit). Moreover, the chip itself is protected (such as fuses in microcontrollers). Can you learn a lot? Nothing ... for the foreseeable amount of time ... yes
            2. Chaldon48
              Chaldon48 7 October 2019 04: 07
              0
              Engines for rockets are still only trying to do, but in the end they still buy from Russia. The Chinese still have not been able to master the technology of manufacturing single-crystal blades for turbines. Because of this, their engines leave much to be desired.
          2. Amurets
            Amurets 6 October 2019 14: 00
            +2
            Quote: venik
            Somehow I asked the seller of electrical goods about the origin of the food processor ("Mulinex" seems to be) - made in China? He looked at me as "mentally retarded", shrugged his shoulders and snorted: "WHAT is now being done NOT in China?"

            Don't ask, you look at the manufacturer: a global brand will be written in healthy letters, and below, well, in very small letters it will be written: commissioned by this brand "made in China".
            1. vredlo
              vredlo 6 October 2019 15: 10
              +2
              Quote: Amurets
              Quote: venik
              Somehow I asked the seller of electrical goods about the origin of the food processor ("Mulinex" seems to be) - made in China? He looked at me as "mentally retarded", shrugged his shoulders and snorted: "WHAT is now being done NOT in China?"

              Don't ask, you look at the manufacturer: a global brand will be written in healthy letters, and below, well, in very small letters it will be written: commissioned by this brand "made in China".

              Well, you can find a European assembly and they are not enough, only the price tag will not please you (almost the same meat grinders (power grade), one is assembled in France and the other in China
              both mulinex the difference is 2-3 thousands, and this is almost a third of the price), and yes, for a long time no one is shy and they write in big letters about China in the household
              1. Amurets
                Amurets 6 October 2019 23: 20
                0
                Quote: vredlo
                both mulinex the difference is 2-3 thousands, and this is almost a third of the price), and yes, for a long time no one is shy and they write in big letters about China in the household

                I know that very well. From me to the PRC 800 meters.
          3. SOF
            SOF 7 October 2019 09: 08
            +1
            Quote: venik
            Have you seen a lot NOT of the Chinese assembly (household appliances for example) ???

            ... well, for example .... buying, for my wife’s new kitchen, hans ceramic and an oven from Hans, I was surprised to find that all of it (!!!) was made in Poland .... and only a microwave, that the same company, I had to take the Chinese, so as not to break away from the color scheme ....
            ..... and here's another fact - when assembling the kitchen set, the master said: "Watch the box with appliances. (which is located on the cooktop) If it gets warm, then call us - we will install thermal protection so that the laminate of the box does not come off." .... and added .... "But this, as a rule, only happens with the Chinese" .... for what he bought - for that he sold ...
        3. Oyo Sarkazmi
          Oyo Sarkazmi 6 October 2019 13: 13
          0
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          On the contrary, they can be punished for their mistake

          Actually, this slows down technological progress in China. If a foreign hired special offers to make changes to the product, his Chinese chief first of all asks - show where it has already been done. If this was not previously, then well, nafig! And in China, the elder is always right.
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 6 October 2019 13: 55
            -1
            and it is right.
          2. at84432384
            at84432384 7 October 2019 16: 15
            0
            The old man, the elder everywhere is right, that's how the world works.
        4. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 7 October 2019 00: 44
          -1
          China has now gained great strength and is terribly proud of it. Sometimes he acts in an impudent manner: "You don't need to have power!" Case with carrier-based fighter and just from there. In fact, what can the robbed do now? Shaking your finger is not good you are doing! Not by concept!
      2. VIT101
        VIT101 6 October 2019 09: 20
        +10
        Quote: Kontrik
        And yet the Chinese are well done


        "Well done" they are for themselves, but for us they are ordinary thieves. As a result of the games of big politics in opposition to America, our leadership continues to supply them with copying equipment. But it remains to be seen how it will all end. The Chinese are not a nation that will be forever grateful for this.
        1. armata_armata
          armata_armata 6 October 2019 11: 26
          -14
          "Well done" they are for themselves, but for us they are ordinary thieves

          For you, yes, for those who know the story really well done who wisely use the technology provided. And so that local little girls would not worry, it is probably worth recalling that the history of the development of jet aircraft of the USSR is bronzed by German developments obtained after the end of WWII. And the engine of the famous Tu-95 (NK-12) is nothing but a copy of the German JUMO-022, and the copying was carried out by German prisoners
          So I will repeat the "thieves" of the PRC only for people who are not familiar with history
          1. Artunis
            Artunis 6 October 2019 12: 07
            0
            Around 91, I bought myself a used BMW518, if my memory serves. I open the hood, and there is a Moskvich one-to-one engine, the hinge is just a little different and the BMW label. I began to find out where such a miracle came from, it turned out that after the Second World War, ours took out from Germany a whole plant for the production of engines and successfully began to produce these engines for "Muscovites". And the Germans, in turn, removed this engine from Messerschmit (aircraft), chopped off one of the 4 sections and shoved it into the car. It (the engine) is therefore tilted at 45 degrees. if anyone remembers. And they produced this engine until the end of the 80s in Germany. Well, the quality of ours and German is incomparable - they rustle, and ours ..... you know. Other metal, alloys, etc. So you can copy it, but with the technology of an ambush. And this is an engine as simple as a corner of a house, but an airplane !!!! It will probably fly, but low low!
            1. irontom
              irontom 6 October 2019 13: 18
              +7
              So it is not necessary to show your ignorance, you have the Internet turned off or something, then they would not write nonsense about Messerschmitt and the Muscovite, who is the Opel Cadet of 37th year of development. And looking at the 400 engine with a distributor from the top, you can't say that it's a BMW. 412 is a forced 408, although no one denies that the resolution of the units and other layout decisions were taken from the “Bavarians”.
            2. dvina71
              dvina71 6 October 2019 13: 19
              +11
              Quote: Artunis
              Around the year 91, I bought a used BMW518 if the memory serves me right. I open the hood, and there the Muscovite engine is one-on-one, the hitch is just a little different and the BMW label.

              You don’t have to lie .. 1.8 BMW 80x is absolutely not the same as the 1.5 BMW 40x .., on the basis of which the UZAM-412 was developed in the USSR .. These motors are so different inside, how much they look like on the outside.
              And that ... do you know how much engine was on Messer? If you know ... teach the math which of his half got 1.5l?
          2. VIT101
            VIT101 6 October 2019 12: 14
            +14
            Quote: armata_armata
            And the engine of the famous Tu-95 (NK-12) is nothing but a copy of the German JUMO-022,


            You are new to the history of the NK-12. Yes, it was created with the help of German engineers and the JUMO-022 developments were used. But this is not a copy, but a completely different engine. In addition, we received it as a winning country, but did not purchase it for use, and then copied it.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 October 2019 13: 24
              0
              Quote: VIT101
              But this is not a copy, but a completely different engine.

              A group of Dr. Shaibe under N. D. Kuznetsov designed and built a powerful Jumo-022 turboprop engine (TVD) called the NK-2M. Continuing work on the Jumo-022, it was boosted, doubled and named 2TV-2Ф and installed on the Tu-95.
              1. VIT101
                VIT101 6 October 2019 15: 03
                +10
                Quote: tihonmarine
                Continuing work on the Jumo-022, it was boosted, doubled and named 2TV-2Ф and installed on the Tu-95.


                We heard a ringing, but you don’t know where it came from. For your information, the Jumo-022 was designed in Germany in the 1944 year, but even ground tests were not carried out, not to mention flying. On its basis, we already built a TV-2 and then a dual 2TV-2F engine, which did not go into the series, but proceeded to create a TV-12 (NK-12). For comparison, I give some characteristics:

                TV-2 (TV-2F):
                Compressor - 4-speed;
                Turbine: 3's speed;
                Ne. = 5000 l from.
                Ne.cr. = 3000 l from.

                TV-12 (NK-12):
                Compressor - 14-speed;
                Turbine: 5-speed;
                Ne. = 12500 l from.
                Ne.cr. = 6500 l from.
        2. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 6 October 2019 13: 56
          +2
          Gunpowder with silk - then we stole paper from someone? Do aliens?
          1. SOF
            SOF 7 October 2019 14: 55
            0
            Quote: Arthur 85
            Gunpowder with silk - then we stole paper from someone? Do aliens?

            .... judging by the stable-stubborn "creativity"Chinese designers and engineers who do not seem to be exiled but lead either to a clone of a Mercedes, or to an Opel twin brother, or to a Frankenstein of all smartphones in one .... etc ....gunpowder, silk and paper.... were stolen by the Chinese, in antiquity, from someone else ......
            fellow
            1. Arthur 85
              Arthur 85 7 October 2019 22: 25
              0
              Um. Maybe then they stole from aliens? ..
        3. Alexander I
          Alexander I 7 October 2019 09: 02
          0
          Let them copy, otherwise God forbid they themselves will begin to develop
      3. Far East
        Far East 6 October 2019 10: 54
        +2
        I will answer! Chinese FUUU !!! wassat don't believe it! ask the Chinese themselves!
      4. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 6 October 2019 13: 58
        0
        Quote: Kontrik
        Copying technology is not so easy ...

        ... was before. Spectral analyzes help establish the composition of the alloy, but all this is easy when there is mass production. And when one machine is loaded before the 2050 of the year, then ... In addition, the main burden of copying rests with subsequent sanctions on the copyist. Everyone knows that China is copying. But he practically does not bear responsibility.
        Quote: Kontrik
        .Russia in the blockade of military political and at any time, you can wait for a preemptive strike ..

        That's for sure. Just like in the movies ... North Korea has already been tortured to wait, Iran is waiting, but they will beat in the Russian Federation ... wassat Who are these suicides? Name? The most important thing is that they are not afraid to freeze (unexpectedly) or to go under water (suddenly)
        We agree on one thing: Chinese mass copying and the availability of human potential enable this country with its economy to come close to any ALREADY INVENTED (DONE) product. We will rejoice ... that officially they are our partners ... for now .... yes
      5. Amurets
        Amurets 6 October 2019 14: 24
        +8
        Quote: Kontrik
        Copying technology is not so easy.
        That's right, because there is also know-how, I know how. An interesting example was given by VN Novikov about the cartridge belt of the Maxim machine gun: all the parts are the same, they seem to be assembled according to the technology, but on the Tula belt, machine guns work flawlessly, on Izhevsk passes, delays and other delays in feeding cartridges. They brought the tape collectors from Tula and the machine guns started working on the Izhevsk belt, and the reason was that when riveting the tape, it was necessary to create a slight tension on the tape when setting the rivets. That would seem a trifle, but the machine gun stopped working.
      6. Vadim237
        Vadim237 6 October 2019 14: 46
        -1
        Yes, they have there most of the machinery and equipment of similar quality.
    3. eagle owl
      eagle owl 6 October 2019 08: 53
      +6
      Miser pays twice.
      If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

      And what's the matter? Legally, everything is okay, well, Ukraine sold its OWN property ... It’s not a service here, but Humpbacked with Beni Yeltsman
      1. venik
        venik 6 October 2019 11: 47
        +8
        Quote: Uhu
        Legally - everything is OK, well, Ukraine has sold its property ...

        =========
        Uh-huh !! OWN ..... How! He actually passed the tests on the "Thread" there .... He was simply "impudently" pirated!
        Hohly decided that EVERYTHING that was on the territory of Ukraine is THEIR property! For example - the ENTIRE Black Sea Fleet was initially declared OWN! Not a ride! And with "Kuzey" and in general there was a detective story - he was taken away from under the noses of the "Russian patriots"! He stood at the wall of the plant ...
        It was only later that their appetites were "cut down"!
    4. Hto tama
      Hto tama 6 October 2019 09: 02
      +6
      The issue is not protection, but that the thief stole from the thief. laughing That the amers have their own, what technologies, everything is either stolen or bought. Yes, they are good businessmen, their chuyka works well to bring them money, but there are no specialists of their own, they have purchased brains. How many foreign scientists work in the states, and this is essentially a theft, because scientists need to be trained, and this is the cost of the state and parents. I do not dispute that the countries that "supply" specialists to the states are to blame for not being able to give better conditions to the people, the question is whether the states themselves to boast that they themselves raised their scientists. And the fact that the USSR stole the technology of atomic weapons from the states ... and where did they get it? belay
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 6 October 2019 18: 18
        +3
        Quote: Hto tama
        The issue is not protection, but that the thief stole from the thief.

        And even this is not the main question, but whether the country is ready to illegally obtain some samples, technologies and documentation to reproduce in itself everything that has been created in other countries.
        The simplest example from the Soviet past is that only two countries in the world could produce Typhoon (Ohio) class submarines, and any country in the world, including Japan, China, Great Britain, Germany, etc., would simply collapse if they tried create something similar based on your industry. And not because they did not have money, but because there was no scientific and production base, and if they had to be created at home, then no budget of these countries could withstand. So to steal something, this is just a small problem, it is much more difficult to reproduce the entire scientific, technological and production chain to create a technique that has no analogues in the whole world. By the way, when Belenko hijacked the MiG-25, the Americans, having analyzed it from different angles, came to the conclusion that they could not reproduce it at home, and only certain technical solutions were used by them at that time.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 October 2019 19: 42
          +1
          Quote: ccsr
          only two countries in the world could produce Typhoon (Ohio) class submarines, and any country in the world, including Japan, China, Great Britain, Germany, etc., would simply collapse if they tried to create something similar on the basis of their industry.

          Apparently the SSBNs of the Triumphan type were presented to the French by throats from the planet Katruk, and the SSBN Vanguard were inherited by the British from the Atlanteans ...
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 6 October 2019 20: 16
            +3
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Apparently SSBNs of the Triumphan type were presented to the French by sips from the planet Katruk,

            You apparently do not take into account that the French SSBN appeared much later, had less armament, so comparing them with the Typhoon, even after the modernization that took place with the Triumfan in the XNUMXs, is completely incorrect even in terms of the total nuclear stock.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            and SSBN Vanguard the British inherited from the Atlanteans ...

            It was not the Atlanteans who gave them the Trident II D5, but the Americans - so they turned out to be unable, since they could not even create their own strategic missile for this SSBN.
            As they say, the attempt to attract these two submarines to our "Typhoon" can be recognized as failed, even despite your belief in "aliens".
      2. at84432384
        at84432384 7 October 2019 16: 40
        +1
        Just as the States did not steal nuclear weapons production technology (some ideas were borrowed from the Germans), so the USSR did not steal it from the States. When developing nuclear weapons, thousands of scientific and engineering problems were solved, and this required both resources and time. The transfer of these results by intelligence allowed Soviet scientists not to repeat the mistakes of others and saved a lot of time and money. Nobody tried to repeat the American technology itself because it is simply impossible. Repeating the technology of a complex product is equivalent to repeating the entire American industry (materials, processing methods, etc., etc.) —it would have taken another 20 years. The Chinese copy of the SU-33 has a lot more prototype for a simple reason — they don’t have technology production of sheathing material of necessary strength characteristics. They’ve been struggling with this for about 40 years. The result is not very ...
    5. figwam
      figwam 6 October 2019 09: 28
      +8
      “The Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of“ acquiring ”Western technology without the consent of the owners

      How did you get into space? Brown was taken out with missiles, all engineers, blueprints, technology, property. Or did Germany as an owner agree? And the secrets themselves were stolen by a bomb, if it had not been for the war in Europe, it is not known who would have first mastered the atomic charge.
      1. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 03
        +1
        Why doesn’t anyone pay rent to the inventor of the wheel? The mess.
        1. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 7 October 2019 02: 44
          0
          Arthur85, is he your relative?
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 7 October 2019 05: 53
            0
            We are all brothers on Earth ...
            1. Chaldon48
              Chaldon48 7 October 2019 06: 53
              0
              If we mean Adam and Eve, as progenitors.
      2. maidan.izrailovich
        maidan.izrailovich 6 October 2019 18: 11
        +4
        figvam (Sergey)
        Brown was taken out with missiles ...

        Well, the Internet is at hand ....
        Before stupidity to post, it would not hurt to find out the real story.
        Nobody exported Brown to the USSR. The Americans took him.
        And those missiles that the USSR exported from Germany were unable to go into space. Even upgraded. And nothing was done on their basis. The USSR also had its own achievements in rocket science. Started back in the 30's. They became the basis for future missiles.
        1. missuris
          missuris 6 October 2019 18: 47
          +3
          so like that was meant
        2. figwam
          figwam 6 October 2019 18: 50
          +2
          Quote: maidan.izrailovich
          Well, the Internet is at hand ....
          Before stupidity to post, it would not hurt to find out the real story.
          Nobody exported Brown to the USSR. The Americans took him.

          You have something with the brain or with logic, I wrote about the Americans.
        3. Bratkov Oleg
          Bratkov Oleg 7 October 2019 18: 11
          0
          Quote: maidan.izrailovich

          Nobody exported Brown to the USSR. The Americans took him.
          And those missiles that the USSR exported from Germany were unable to go into space. Even upgraded. And nothing was done on their basis. The USSR also had its own achievements in rocket science. Started back in the 30's. They became the basis for future missiles.

          Moreover, until the beginning of the 70s, the United States did not launch a single astronaut into space, there were no flights of Gemeni and Mercury, no flights to the moon. All Brown’s genius had enough were medium-range missiles. The Americans dodged, lied, like in a pan, because their capitalism was coming to an end. However, they got out and managed, thanks to the bastards who had sold and betrayed their people from the USSR leadership.
    6. APASUS
      APASUS 6 October 2019 10: 01
      +3
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

      What kind of service? China just bought a sample of the plane from Ukraine and created its copy ................. here are the drawbacks of the copy, we are talking
      1. mark1
        mark1 6 October 2019 10: 12
        +1
        That's it, but technology has nothing to do with it. they are not Soviet / Russian but stupidly Chinese.
      2. Bratkov Oleg
        Bratkov Oleg 7 October 2019 18: 13
        0
        Quote: APASUS
        What kind of service? China just bought a sample of the plane from Ukraine and created its copy ................. here are the drawbacks of the copy, we are talking
        Only Ukraine did not own the institutes and design bureaus that created this aircraft. She stole them, and sold them as her property.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 7 October 2019 18: 16
          0
          Quote: Bratkov Oleg
          Only Ukraine did not own the institutes and design bureaus that created this aircraft. She stole them, and sold them as her property.

          When did it stop Ukraine or China?
    7. Ilyas.spb
      Ilyas.spb 6 October 2019 11: 29
      -2
      They are busy stealing money from the people themselves.
    8. YOUR
      YOUR 6 October 2019 12: 49
      +2
      The Chinese bought from us Su-27, Su-30, Su-35. Moreover, 100 units of Su-27 were to be collected by the Chinese themselves.
      S-300 was sold to them, a couple of years later the Chinese clone of the HQ-9 air defense system appeared
    9. Alexey nord
      Alexey nord 6 October 2019 15: 15
      +5
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

      A very dubious statement - ““ The Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had a habit of “acquiring” Western technologies without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles. ”If there is some truth about the atomic bomb, then about Buran is a lie from start to finish. to copy something, you need to get either technical documentation or a sample of the product. And this was not the case with the Shuttle. External resemblance is no more. Buran is a completely native Soviet development. The same applies to the history of the Concorde and Tu-144.
    10. maidan.izrailovich
      maidan.izrailovich 6 October 2019 18: 00
      -2
      Andrey Chistyakov
      If technology is stolen ....

      Have you read the article?
      Where is there about the "theft" of technology?
      Perhaps China is "acquiring" some technology illegally. But what does this have to do with the material of this article?
      The article is specifically about copying Su-33. The original of which is acquired quite legally.
      1. Andrey Chistyakov
        Andrey Chistyakov 6 October 2019 18: 20
        0
        Quote: maidan.izrailovich

        - writes an American magazine, hinting that China has "avenged" Russia for "stealing" technology from

        Sorry, I copied it for YOU. ..
        So
        "- writes an American magazine, hinting that China has" avenged "Russia for" stealing "technology from"
        Agree the word theft is present. So as you can see, I read it.
    11. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 7 October 2019 00: 14
      0
      If thefts take place, then someone really needs it. There is a clever thief for every not the most sleepy guard. It has not begun now, remember the romance: "I know the beauty has a watchman at the porch, no one will block the path of the fellow." However, there is also a Russian proverb: "You cannot create from someone else's wealth!"
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 7 October 2019 10: 17
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
      If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

      This is not a valid term - rather, it is a question of borrowing a design.
      Since technology is a description of materials and a sequence of actions with them, mechanical, heat treatment and a sequence of assembly processes.
      If the technology is not sold.
      Then having a sample to copy, you can try reverse engineering to develop production technology - which is what the Chinese are doing.

      Therefore, it must be understood that the USSR did not steal the technology of manufacturing the atomic bomb, since there was neither a sample nor full documentation of production.
      The USSR learned only the general principles of the right direction in development, which reduced digging in dead ends and showed where to go. The technology for creating atomic weapons is voluminous and the USSR recognized only parts of the puzzle and the general principles for solving it.

      The development of technology for creating atomic weapons was independently decided by Soviet scientists and engineers, and in many ways was more effective than American scientists.
      1. at84432384
        at84432384 7 October 2019 16: 46
        +1
        Finally, I read the comment of a person with an engineering education, otherwise the respondents do not know the difference between the appearance and the method and methods of production, a hundred is "technology" ...
    14. zenion
      zenion 7 October 2019 14: 29
      0
      The USSR stole space technology from the Americans along with Yuri Gagarin, already sitting in the cockpit. As well as underwater space shuttles for the Singer machine.
  2. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 6 October 2019 08: 34
    +15
    The attempt to save often turns out to be much more global spending for the state. And a good example of this is the J-15 Chinese carrier-based fighter project.

    I do not agree with the question in principle. Those. nothing is written wrong, but there is a misunderstanding of the Chinese economy. Everywhere, for example, in the automotive industry, the Chinese first copy. And it almost always turns out flawed at the beginning. But then, based on the experience gained, they begin to do their own, superior in characteristics to the original. Those. the first experience of copying a carrier-based fighter is to run-in technologies on the basis of which in the future they will build their true carrier-based fighter. This is not a flaw. This is an experience.
    1. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 7 October 2019 06: 56
      0
      China cannot master the production of quality engines.
  3. knn54
    knn54 6 October 2019 08: 34
    +3
    Something anecdote remembered:
    According to the documents stolen by the spy, they collected a steam locomotive, not a rocket. It turns out that the Yankees ruined greed, it was necessary to give more money for the last four notifications ...
    1. Nirag013
      Nirag013 6 October 2019 16: 12
      +2
      Not true,! Down there, there was a note in tiny little letters, which the Yankees did not immediately see. And in that note it was said: "After assembly, finalize the product with a file." laughing
  4. Wedmak
    Wedmak 6 October 2019 08: 41
    +19
    the publication did not fail to recall that "the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of" acquiring "Western technology without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles."

    During the Cold War, intelligence certainly worked, but the publication impudently LIES, writing about the theft of the technology of the atomic bomb and shuttle. Not to say that there were no such episodes, B-29 was completely copied, but then there was no other way out. Later, their technologies came, which in some areas surpassed Western ones.
    Such a lie, especially when it is mixed with the truth, so that it works more reliably, will come out to the West sideways. And in some places it’s already coming out.
    1. Tusv
      Tusv 6 October 2019 09: 54
      0
      Quote: Wedmak
      but the publication impudently LIES, writing about the theft of the technology of the atomic bomb and the shuttle.

      By shuttle I agree. It is necessary to see who stole from whom. Quite to himself, Chelomei launched a very similar shuttle long before the States. The same spiral with boron.
      According to the nuclear bomb. According to the official version, the intelligence still stole the nuclear bomb, and even some on the air say that the first Soviet bomb was the American one for winning a year. But American technology did not go further, because it was inferior to Soviet
      1. region58
        region58 6 October 2019 11: 22
        +3
        Quote: Tusv
        But American technology did not go further, because it was inferior to Soviet

        In how. So they stole that the copy was better than the original. In general, the documentation was stolen, looked, made a conclusion - what for it is necessary, we have better ... wassat
        1. Tusv
          Tusv 6 October 2019 11: 28
          +3
          Quote: region58
          concluded - what for it is necessary, it’s better with us ...

          So it was drinks Who was the first to blow up Kuzkin’s mother? Then that
      2. Amurets
        Amurets 6 October 2019 14: 52
        +5
        Quote: Tusv
        According to the nuclear bomb. According to the official version, the intelligence still stole the nuclear bomb, and even some on the air say that the first Soviet bomb was the American one for winning a year. But American technology did not go further, because it was inferior to Soviet

        Yes, this is not the point. The bottom line is that there was no uranium in the USSR. Exploration of uranium deposits began in 1943. In 1945, Jachymov mines in Czechoslovakia and uranium mines of the Ore Mountains.
        "In 1947, on the basis of the decree of the commander-in-chief of the Soviet military administration in Germany, Marshal Sokolovsky, on the transfer of the Saxon Mining Administration to the ownership of the USSR, on account of reparations, an order was issued on the organization of the Soviet state joint-stock company" Bismuth ". By the way, why was the enterprise named" Bismuth "? Periodic table, bismuth is the last not yet radioactive element. According to the logic adopted in the Soviet defense industry, the enterprise had to be classified so that even their own would not guess. So they took a completely non-radioactive name. As often happens, for the enemy it was the secret of Polichinel. General Groves, upon learning of the start of work in the Ore Mountains, said:
        "The Russians want to get a shred of wool from a black sheep."
        True, then the Americans were very upset. The sheep was not lousy at all. If you look for comparisons with sheep, it was a golden fleece.
        http://alternathistory.com/dayosh-strane-uran-kak-sssr-reshil-problemu-a-9-dobyvaya-nemetskij-uran-dlya-sovetskoj-atomnoj-bomby/
        How uranium was searched in the USSR, see this link. Https: //leopard-fil.ru/mramornoe-ushhele-otkrytie-uranovogo-rudnika/
        1. Chaldon48
          Chaldon48 7 October 2019 06: 59
          +1
          The last non-radioactive element is lead. Bismuth is weakly radioactive.
    2. meandr51
      meandr51 6 October 2019 12: 22
      +8
      It's right. I know from the practice of work in the 70s a case when in 1972 a seeker from Vietnam from the latest modification of the Sidewinder rocket was brought to our institute and admired the characteristics
      photodetector and design. And years through 20, the Americans got at the disposal of the GDR MIG-29
      and ofigeli from the P-73 and the helmet-mounted sight ... So who has stolen what? In my opinion, you should not pay attention to this at all. It matters what is in service. The rest is lyrics.
    3. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 08
      0
      Nothing will ever come to anyone's side. Once the lie came out sideways of the USSR when the smart Suslov told tales. And in the West, everything is honest: bite a competitor, lie, impersonate - this is nature, and if you can’t, then it’s out of luck.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 6 October 2019 17: 43
        +2
        And in the West, everything is honest: bite a competitor, lie, impersonate

        Well, wow, so you have the concept of honesty ... bite, lie, impersonate ... you can still get to a fair murder.
        But why am I ... the phrase "humanitarian bombing" just defines an honest murder, and even on a large scale.
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 October 2019 14: 54
      -4
      The only thing we surpassed the United States in aviation was the creation of the civilian Tu 114 and the Su 27 fighter with a variable thrust vector - unfortunately that's all.
    5. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 7 October 2019 02: 50
      +1
      Without the USSR’s own technology and scientists, nothing would have happened even if our scouts put a finished atomic bomb on Stalin’s table.
  5. Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 6 October 2019 08: 44
    0
    The main problem of J-15 is that at the moment they are forced to use Soviet technology and carry out a springboard start

    Another thing is if they were copying American or French technology, for example. Quite a different matter. One could laugh at the Chinese, where they are to us and try to sell these technologies
  6. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 6 October 2019 08: 50
    +12
    So the US also stole the bomb and missiles from Germany ... Then it would be quiet, "inventors".
    1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 6 October 2019 09: 04
      0
      So the US bomb and missiles were also stolen from Germany ...
      Everything that is beneficial and useful to them, they take everything under their plagiarism.
    2. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 6 October 2019 09: 10
      +1
      Quote: Cottodraton
      So the US also stole the bomb and missiles from Germany ... Then it would be quiet, "inventors".

      Questions of honesty and conscience do not bother them. You just need to remember who first tested the nuclear bomb in humans.
      1. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 7 October 2019 02: 52
        0
        Alas, the days of noble knights are over. Now no one will report: "I'm going for you!"
    3. sabakina
      sabakina 6 October 2019 09: 23
      +1
      The only thing that was invented in America was Edison’s light bulb, and I’m not so sure ....
      1. lelik613
        lelik613 6 October 2019 09: 29
        +2
        They patented a hole into which the light bulb is screwed.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 6 October 2019 10: 00
        +4
        The first patenter did not always invent the process itself. Now it does not matter.
        Ladigin and Yablochkov invented the bulbs in our country, at about the same time.
        Those. There was a need for such a lighting device; there was enough technology and scientific research in this area.
        1. region58
          region58 6 October 2019 11: 24
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          Whoever first patented doesn’t always invent the process himself

          Mozhaisky launched the first plane, and the Wright brothers patented ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 6 October 2019 11: 48
            +2
            It was, in any case, there are examples ..... now without strong evidence nothing can be changed.
            Lesson for the future.
          2. dauria
            dauria 6 October 2019 14: 57
            0
            Mozhaisky launched the first plane, and the Wright brothers patented ..


            It is regrettable but reliable to prove the fact of the flight of motor vehicles to the Wright brothers (and there were many of them both from the French and the Germans) no one succeeds. Although Otto Lilienthal died in Berlin during a glider flight 10 on August 1896 long before the Wright brothers .. A Mozhaisky plane could not even stay in horizontal flight with its engines and weight ..
            1. region58
              region58 6 October 2019 20: 57
              0
              Quote: dauria
              Regrettably, but reliably prove the fact of flight

              Yes, nothing regrettable is actually not there ... It's just that science and technology do not stand still, and a certain time comes in the history of the development of mankind when an idea that was previously unrealizable becomes possible to translate into a concrete design. Often this happens almost simultaneously in different countries independently of each other.
          3. Chaldon48
            Chaldon48 7 October 2019 02: 56
            0
            Mozhaisky asked the government for help, and in response, some official sent him a paper: "Until your airplane flaps its wings like a bird, there will be no help from the treasury."
      3. meandr51
        meandr51 6 October 2019 12: 23
        0
        Before that there were Yablochkov and Lodygin. In the Russian Empire.
      4. Tusv
        Tusv 6 October 2019 13: 04
        +1
        Quote: sabakina
        The only thing invented in America is the Edison light bulb

        Mr. Edison’s laboratory stupidly rushed ideas from all over the world and brought them to practical use. In fact, he himself did not invent anything, stupidly bringing this or that invention to the patent. And this is the genius of Edison or the famous American practicality. Yes, the same simple battery Alve owe, which the counterfeiters invented before our era drinks
      5. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 12
        -2
        In America, a wordless society was invented (never a fan of the United States, but it is a fact). This explains their jerk. And the breakthrough of the USSR after the revolution.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 6 October 2019 17: 49
          +5
          America has invented a wordless society

          What???? That is, the United States, a country that slaughtered Indians by hundreds and poisoned them with diseases, used slaves for a couple of hundreds of years, practiced racial segregation for even longer, and lately, faithfully believing in its exclusivity and behaving accordingly, invented an unconscious society ????? ? Are you serious ????
          In your opinion, the division into the rich, the middle class and the poor is not an estate in the modern sense? They are all separated only by the amount of money in your pocket. What are not estates?
    4. venik
      venik 6 October 2019 12: 09
      +2
      Quote: Cottodraton
      So the US bomb and missiles were also stolen from Germany ...

      =======
      Well, as far as missiles are concerned, everything is correct - the American rocket industry has "legs growing" out of von Braun's projects! But about the "bomb" - here you, my friend, "are not pgava in kogne" (as the classic said).
      The Germans never managed to create a bomb (they moved in a different way, and then it was too late). But the Yankees (or rather, nuclear physicists from literally all over the world (except Germany) and even Einstein, who managed to escape from the "Reich") tested nuclear weapons already on July 16, 1945 (and she was ready even earlier)! So - "does not roll" !!!
  7. Timon2155
    Timon2155 6 October 2019 09: 28
    +7
    I wonder what kind of space shuttle we copied? Does Buran mean the author? If so, then he is poorly versed in the essence of the matter. I will not write about the fundamental differences between our shuttle and Energy - this is understandable
  8. Vadim T.
    Vadim T. 6 October 2019 09: 29
    +3
    There is no technology theft in this case, since China bought he needed the plane he took to a cog and then copied it. Yes, it didn’t work out very well, but the first pancake is always lumpy. There is nothing surprising here, because only a few countries in the world can build a modern aircraft. And the fact that China among them is only respect. Despite everything, they have a deck fighter and even fly, and industry, engineers and designers have gained the necessary experience. And specialists from other countries (from Russia and Ukraine, for example) also work there. So there is no doubt that over time China will have a good carrier-based fighter.
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 6 October 2019 09: 55
      -2
      Vadim T, I'm not a specialist in military technology or even an engineer. But seeing Chinese cars, I understand that they are developing in the right direction. Unlike our AvtoVAZ, used to pulling money from the budget and putting in cars of the level of the beginning of the 90's.
    2. fruit_cake
      fruit_cake 6 October 2019 09: 58
      +1
      China bought a plane, not a license
      1. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 15
        0
        So what? The SOVEREIGN state differs in that, when necessary, it had in mind the license, the WTO, the UN General Assembly, and personally Greta Tumberg.
        1. fruit_cake
          fruit_cake 6 October 2019 14: 40
          0
          if a thief has stolen something from you and you can’t do anything to him, does he mean well done sovereign?
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 56
            -1
            Why is a thief? After what the collective west (and RI) did with China, and then did not get married, they could well take alimony.
            1. fruit_cake
              fruit_cake 6 October 2019 18: 42
              0
              What side is the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union that built factories in China, trained specialists, helped with technologies including atomic, and then got a knife in the back in the form of attacks along its borders? For us, they are exactly what ordinary technology thieves.
              1. Arthur 85
                Arthur 85 6 October 2019 18: 51
                0
                I did not write anything about the USSR, but RI participated in the suppression of the "boxing uprising" for example.
                1. fruit_cake
                  fruit_cake 6 October 2019 20: 20
                  0
                  again: what does the RI have to do with it? many sins for the Chinese in the history of other nations can be remembered many
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 6 October 2019 18: 29
          +2
          Quote: Arthur 85
          So what? The SOVEREIGN state differs in that when it was necessary, it meant a license,

          This is not entirely true, because if China bought a sample and collects products for its own use, then it doesn’t give a damn about the license, no matter who it belongs to. But as soon as they want to sell such equipment without a license to other countries, they will immediately be given to the head through the WTO those who own the license. So it was with respect to Soviet technology, and with respect to other manufacturers in different countries - no one has canceled the COCOM rules so far.
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 6 October 2019 18: 33
            0
            Well, it is now. And years through 10 there will be no WTO, or formally it will be like the UN, but everyone will not care about it. And China will sell (transfer) equipment to its satellite countries as long as it can bite.
  9. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 6 October 2019 09: 29
    +6
    Yes, even sneak up ... Technology here must be put at the forefront. If there is no technology, then there are no plants, then there are no specialists. How long does it take to educate and educate a specialist? Xnumx years? Well, the usual institute course ... But figs to you - years 5. The institute course is not a panacea - we still have to work in production.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 6 October 2019 09: 40
      +1
      Not a genius can finish three universities. However, he will not be either a genius or an inventor. They do not become an inventor, they are born.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 6 October 2019 09: 46
        +1
        Here the question is not about geniuses, but stupidly about production capacities and people who use these capacities.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 6 October 2019 09: 49
          +1
          This is me about your words about the institute course.
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 6 October 2019 10: 04
            +1
            And in our institutes only geniuses? Come on, forget it.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 6 October 2019 10: 11
              +3
              Yes, Sergei forget. As a father told me, or a joke, or a story from the army ...
              The ensign sits in the car and tells the driver:
              - Go.
              “Comrade Warrant Officer, that won't start.”
              - Go. Then you get it.
              1. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 6 October 2019 10: 41
                +1
                As a servant in the USSR, I can tell you that ensign is a joke. They are different, some are native father, and some are the last dirt. I got dirt. Well now what to do ...
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 6 October 2019 18: 31
                +1
                Quote: sabakina
                The ensign sits in the car and tells the driver:
                - Go.
                “Comrade Warrant Officer, that won't start.”
                - Go. Then you get it.

                He was a smart warrant officer - apparently the car was "downhill" and he immediately realized that it would start on the move as soon as you take it off the parking brake. As the saying goes, you can't drink skill - an intelligent ensign was ...
          2. ab2020
            ab2020 6 October 2019 10: 47
            +4
            It is clear that there are few engineering geniuses. And the system of mass access to higher education, among other things, solved the issue of searching (selection) of unique ones.
            Well, even if this genius is found, he needs to graduate from a university, get a job placement, get experience, and then he will start "creating". So I will agree about 20 years.
            And China started its industrialization program just 15 ... 20 years ago, so we can expect "breakthroughs" from the outside in the very near future.
            And nothing good shines on us, because we risk losing our relative technological superiority.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 6 October 2019 14: 59
              -1
              "And China began its industrialization program just 15 ... 20 years ago, so we can expect" breakthroughs "from the outside in the very near future." He started it from the beginning of the 80s. And at the expense of breakthroughs - yes, breakthroughs in copying and the creation of hybrid goods, technology, etc., based on foreign developments in China will continue.
            2. Sergey Averchenkov
              Sergey Averchenkov 7 October 2019 19: 08
              0
              If you look at the overall progress, then a breakthrough is not bad. But if you look apart ... then yes. Here the most important thing is who will make this breakthrough first.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 6 October 2019 10: 04
      +3
      More importantly, there is an ORDER for decent volumes of such a product! This means that sufficient resources will be allocated to ALL work. This is not piece samples, this is a series.
  10. Svarog
    Svarog 6 October 2019 09: 33
    -3
    The copied could not be better than the original ..
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 6 October 2019 09: 48
      +1
      I would not be so categorical. :)
    2. Tusv
      Tusv 6 October 2019 13: 27
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      The copied could not be better than the original ..

      Here, the namesake all depends on the development of a stolen or purchased idea. In tank building, they bought the English Vickers and the American Christie tank. It turned out T-34. The idea of ​​a torsion bar was stolen from the French, it turned out KV-1. On jet engines. Bought English Merlin, yes with captured messers. Got a thunderstorm of Sabers and Fortresses Mig-15, etc. There is little to copy. Mind, soul and heart need to be applied
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 6 October 2019 14: 39
        -3
        Quote: Tusv
        Here, the namesake all depends on the development

        If they talked about development, then this will be a different machine and it cannot be compared with a copy, a copy is something copied from the original. And if this copy was modernized, then it can no longer be called a copy.
        1. Tusv
          Tusv 6 October 2019 15: 10
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          And if this copy was modernized, then it can no longer be called a copy.

          So then build a copy of it called the reverse engineering method. The word Engineering, not a fig not Russian and never Chinese. So who is tyr at whom? bully
  11. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 6 October 2019 09: 50
    +1
    To begin with, the USSR built its industry precisely on “copying,” but over time, improved these ,, copies, ”for example, automobiles and aircraft manufacturing. In any case, start with something, it is necessary. Another question is whether China has enough economic power and, most importantly, political will to develop and improve. I think enough. And we need to be extremely careful in our “friendship” with China and underestimate its capabilities and ambitions, it’s criminal.
    1. VIT101
      VIT101 6 October 2019 10: 22
      +7
      Not true. The USSR built its industry on the purchase of production licenses and not on copying, and only then built and improved cars, planes, aircraft engines, etc. And it’s funny not to see the difference here.
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Alyxander Matov
    Alyxander Matov 6 October 2019 10: 12
    0
    It’s interesting, but they have at least something of their own, it would be interesting to look at it.
  14. Pavel57
    Pavel57 6 October 2019 10: 22
    +1
    Lee-2 was also heavier than the original C-47.
  15. Avior
    Avior 6 October 2019 10: 25
    +2
    J-15 is a decked version of the Chinese j-11 fighter, which, in turn, is based on the Soviet Su-27 technologies sold to China under a license agreement.
    As well as the supply of su-30 and Su-35.
    Actually, this gave impetus to the development of the entire Chinese combat fighter aircraft, including the FWS-10A "Taihan" engine made on the basis of al-31f, version j-11bs, and an analogue of the Su-35-j-16 fighter.
    The Americans, of course, are drowning for their f-18, but here, in my opinion, someone needs this smoky verbal curtain about Ukraine in the media to justify the drain of not only Soviet, but also modern Russian fighter technologies into China.
    Not to mention the fact that the drain continues - they intend to merge SPRN technologies to China, one of the pillars of Russia's nuclear safety.
    And so that the people would not think too much, to throw him a discussion about how the body-piece of the 1143 project was sold to China. Discuss Ukraine as much as you want!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 October 2019 15: 05
      -1
      "Not to mention that the drain continues - we are going to merge the technologies of the early warning system - one of the pillars of Russia's nuclear safety, 'to China. Russia will not sell the maximum version of the early warning system.
  16. certero
    certero 6 October 2019 11: 01
    -2
    The very concept of a springboard on an aircraft carrier was flawed.
    1. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 6 October 2019 14: 21
      0
      The very concept of an aircraft carrier, from which a normal "land" aircraft cannot take off, is, in my opinion, flawed.
  17. AB
    AB 6 October 2019 11: 27
    0
    This is actually a dubious achievement, an admission that the nation does not have the ability to truly implement its own technology.

    And this is said in the USA, which only buy brains, but they themselves cannot prepare them? Where 30 has not had its own programmers and designers for years? In the USA, when buying a specialist, they are sure that they bought a person with giblets. At the same time, a lot of emigrants do not forget their homeland and their developments go there.
  18. Ros 56
    Ros 56 6 October 2019 11: 33
    +2
    In any technology, there is that highlight that makes them advanced and its absence, with external similarity to the original, just gives the opposite effect. It seems that everything is so, but it doesn’t go, even though you crack. Those who were engaged in the design and manufacture of even aircraft models are well aware of this, and I am silent about big aviation.
    1. lucul
      lucul 6 October 2019 11: 52
      +2
      In any technology, there is a highlight that makes them advanced and its absence, with external similarity to the original, just gives the opposite effect.

      This is called copying a form without having a clue about the content. )))
      It's like in mechanics - there is a mechanism - it can be copied, but here is about scientific calculations (why exactly the designer designed it this way and not otherwise), you need to get to it yourself)))
  19. Ilyas.spb
    Ilyas.spb 6 October 2019 11: 36
    -5
    The Chinese are great clever women. Space has already overtaken many countries, including Russia, and will soon surpass aviation.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 October 2019 15: 10
      +1
      In your universe, they may have overtaken.
  20. kit88
    kit88 6 October 2019 12: 14
    +4
    China has "avenged" Russia for "stealing" technology from the West.

    What a word - Revenge!
    Russia sits straight and cries that the Chinese do not fly J-15. crying
  21. bar
    bar 6 October 2019 12: 24
    +3
    Kroilovo leads to Popalov, a common thing
  22. condrat13
    condrat13 6 October 2019 12: 27
    0
    and the Americans themselves, of course, came up with a bomb to show us that we stole it from them. It is believed that the Americans took the three finished products from the Germans. And ours are stockpiles of weapons-grade isotopes. As with the carriers, by the way - they got von Braun with the team, and we almost all the remaining FAAs. The first bomb tested, Trinity, like Fatty, were plutonium, implosive. Kid - uranium, cannon type. New high technologies could not simultaneously develop in two ways. By the way, a year after these three explosions, the Americans did not test nuclear weapons - apparently there simply weren’t and hastily finished up the technology.
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 6 October 2019 16: 40
      +2
      Hello!! How to write such a misinformation about the FAA that we dragged away our documents need to be read, the USA captured an underground plant in AUSTRIA where the FAU-2 was under production, several hundred finished and so many at the assembly stage, the Yankees got a full set of unique equipment and accessories for assembly, test centers, We managed to get a little more than a hundred and then 40% were rejected due to technical defect, And the USA got almost the full Brown team and patents are the main thing, You can’t write nonsense,
  23. Stalllker
    Stalllker 6 October 2019 12: 33
    +1
    We have some of the best bombs, and Buran was a "drone"
  24. Mentat
    Mentat 6 October 2019 13: 39
    +1
    Quote: MainBeam
    Everywhere, for example, in the automotive industry, the Chinese first copy. And it almost always turns out flawed at the beginning. But then, based on the experience gained, they begin to do their own, superior in characteristics to the original.

    Tell us about superior original Chinese car models. After all, you know what you are writing about, they didn’t just blurt out for pluses just like that?
  25. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 6 October 2019 13: 53
    0
    Well, damn it, and the Union in 30 didn’t pull technology from all over the world? And they flew, and they fought, and they say that one Tiger could break up almost a whole division, but in fact it turned out that somehow it didn’t. And all of them, the Chinese, will succeed, but it would be better for NO to track their debt. They contain their AUG, in fact, on credit ...
  26. Deathmaker
    Deathmaker 6 October 2019 13: 57
    +1
    oooh, old "stolen shuttle" song. :about)))
    By the way, the fact that the Americans themselves stole their bomb from the Germans (albeit with scientists) is, of course, not theft, but effective management, apparently?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 October 2019 15: 13
      -1
      What kind of bomb did they stole from the Germans?
      1. Deathmaker
        Deathmaker 11 November 2019 08: 01
        0
        The one that scared us. Without the scientists exported from Germany, they would still strike uranium with a hammer.
  27. K-50
    K-50 6 October 2019 14: 30
    +1
    "The Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of" acquiring "Western technology without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles."

    Well, with the space shuttle, there’s a complete mistake, since he is not close relatives with the pin dos Dosovsky, if only they are slightly similar. The concept is completely different, from this and others were technologies.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 October 2019 15: 18
      -3
      The Buran was created as a copy of the Shuttle - because it was believed that the Americans had already calculated and done a lot in this regard, and for this reason they abandoned the design like that of Bohr 4 and went along the path of the Americans.
      1. K-50
        K-50 6 October 2019 16: 02
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        Buran created as a copy of the Shuttle

        "Buran" is not a copy of the shuttle, it only looks like it. There are no propulsion engines for launching on "Buran", only shunting ones. The launch itself was carried out by the Energia rocket. Because of this, the whole concept of "Buran" is made differently. Read the materials for both objects.
        "Buran" is the answer to the shuttle, but quite different.
        Looks like yes, but no more. hi
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 7 October 2019 01: 09
          -2
          Unfortunately, starting with the help of Energy made Buran’s flight super-expensive.
          1. Bratkov Oleg
            Bratkov Oleg 7 October 2019 18: 40
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            Unfortunately, starting with the help of Energy made Buran’s flight super-expensive.

            Starting with the help of Energy makes Buran an order of magnitude cheaper than the American shuttle. The shuttle is only good when you need to return to Earth to return 20 tons at a time. To do this, crap weighing more than 50 tons will be put into orbit. But the shuttle cannot put crap of 50 ... 100, or more tons into orbit, because it weighs more than 50 tons, and supposedly 25 tons of payload, but it never brought out more than 20, and the Americans have all this each time it is necessary to throw into orbit. And Energy may not Buran, but put that crap, for example, a manned interplanetary station, into orbit, and the USSR did this 30 years ago, and this is still unattainable for the United States. But they managed to ruin the USSR.
            1. atalef
              atalef 7 October 2019 18: 52
              0
              Quote: Bratkov Oleg
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              Quote: Bratkov Oleg
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              Quote: Bratkov Oleg
              Рђ Рнергия РјРѕР¶РµС ‚

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              Quote: Bratkov Oleg
              Ryo это СССРсделР° Р» 30 Р »РµС‚ РЅР ° Р · Р ° Рґ, Рё это РґРѕ СЃРёС ... РїРѕСнедоЁЂЏЏЏоооССдооСооСоодоСоСдоооооСоСдддооСоооСССддССССоґЎ

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              Quote: Bratkov Oleg
              Ryo это РґРѕ СЃРёС ... РїРѕСЂ недостижимо РґР »СЏ РЎРЁРђ.

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              Having a tremendous amount of work in space.
              What they really have not achieved is so similar to your level of chatter.
              1. Bratkov Oleg
                Bratkov Oleg 20 October 2019 19: 44
                0
                Deeply wrong conclusions. Your chatter sounds beautiful, but stupid and illiterate. "Protons" flew into space about 400 times, that is, 4 times more than the shuttles, and delivered 4 times more cargo into space, while each launch of the Proton is only three times cheaper in fuel.
                No need to pray for the Americans, these are famous liars and liars.
  28. Adimius38
    Adimius38 6 October 2019 15: 03
    +2
    and the Americans are so direct saints, and whoever interested in a screw screwed up the MIG-25 stolen to Japan, and they didn’t even need to steal the documentation on the vertical take-off technology from Yakovlev, they all merged themselves in the turbulent Yeltsin years, which undoubtedly gave a huge breakthrough in the production of F- 35 short takeoff and landing
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 6 October 2019 16: 51
      +1
      But they couldn’t build. Only a few Blackbirds and the Union built Interceptors and mass MIG-25 for these black birds. And most importantly, the production of interceptors turned out to be much cheaper.
  29. Hokunin
    Hokunin 6 October 2019 15: 04
    +5
    Not long ago there was an interview with one atomic scientist, he said that of course no one passed on any detailed documentation of hundreds of kilograms of papers on atomic weapons of the USSR, as the Americans and liberoids are trying to describe. Soviet scientists thought of everything and did everything themselves, all the most complicated devices. The only thing that helped short extracts of extremely generalized information from U.S. intelligence was to dismantle the deadlock paths for developing atomic weapons that USSR scientists could spend time studying - yes, this accelerated the process of creating nuclear weapons, but no more. And about shuttles ... such fierce nonsense is just
    1. Bratkov Oleg
      Bratkov Oleg 20 October 2019 19: 48
      0
      An example with atomic weapons is good! "The USSR stole everything, the USSR stole everything!"
      But the USSR actually received a few excerpts, and this reduced the time it took to make an atomic bomb ... But the Americans got the full documentation for the RD-180 engine, for how much license they acquired, it is not known, but for 20 years they could not create an RD- 180 in America, with a full set of technical documentation. But what can we say about the atomic bomb? No stolen blueprints would have helped if the USSR itself had not approached the creation of atomic weapons.
  30. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 6 October 2019 15: 07
    +1
    America, then nothing has been stolen from anyone?
    Bribery, recruitment, and espionage are one of the most important secrets of American power.
    What did the same Edison do? Patenting other people's ideas. What did he invent himself?
    Your name is Brand. Promotion of goods. And the sale.
    This is not theft!
    This is western business!
    And the author is wildly cunning, laughing at the Chinese.
    1. maden.usmanow
      maden.usmanow 6 October 2019 15: 27
      0
      What is someone else's idea? Chalked on the fence.

      A patent, a license, this is the basis of copyright.
      Most of the most important patents in the field of microelectronics are American.
      The same Chinese under American licenses started their Huawei.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 6 October 2019 16: 47
      0
      why is it so rude, Edison Proto Company bought all the rights to the light bulb from the Russians and that’s it, Read the story there it’s interesting everything is described,
  31. Jarserge
    Jarserge 6 October 2019 15: 31
    +1
    In terms of technology theft, everyone has a stigma in the gun. The United States somehow forgets that they themselves steal everything they can only reach
  32. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 6 October 2019 15: 44
    0
    Kroilovo leads to the popalov.
  33. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 6 October 2019 16: 22
    +2
    And how many technologies the Americans stole, take the same Pentium ...
  34. Old26
    Old26 6 October 2019 16: 32
    +4
    Quote: VIT101
    "Well done" they are for themselves, but for us they are ordinary thieves.

    And nobody canceled industrial (technical) espionage. And the Soviet Union at one time stole (or tried to steal) secrets from the same Americans and NATO.

    Quote: Wedmak
    During the Cold War, intelligence certainly worked, but the publication impudently LIES, writing about the theft of the technology of the atomic bomb and shuttle. Not to say that there were no such episodes, B-29 was completely copied, but then there was no other way out. Later, their technologies came, which in some areas surpassed Western ones.
    Such a lie, especially when it is mixed with the truth, so that it works more reliably, will come out to the West sideways. And in some places it’s already coming out.

    Well, it would be worth it to relate to the scribbling of NI more calmly. Guys love to suck up sensation where it has never been.
    Unfortunately, there was no theft of the technology of the atomic bomb. If it were, they would have done it much earlier. But the design information obtained by our scientists from intelligence helped to get around some bottlenecks. Something became clear precisely from these materials (according to the design of the bomb). But in many ways they had to reach for themselves.
    About the shuttle. Again, what is considered theft. The technologies of our "Buran" were designed for our industry. Shuttle technology - under the American. They also differed in terms of internal filling. As well as in appearance. Although some intermediate versions were aerodynamically close to the American shuttle. The "insides" of the B-29 were completely copied, although even there we had to solve technological and design problems. One conversion of the inch system to the metric system was worth it. The developments in the FAU-2 were used in the creation of the R-1, and the developments in the FAU-1 in the creation of the first Chelomeev cruise missiles 10X

    Quote: Tusv
    Quote: Wedmak
    but the publication impudently LIES, writing about the theft of the technology of the atomic bomb and the shuttle.

    By shuttle I agree. It is necessary to see who stole from whom. Quite to himself, Chelomei launched a very similar shuttle long before the States. The same spiral with boron.
    According to the nuclear bomb. According to the official version, the intelligence still stole the nuclear bomb, and even some on the air say that the first Soviet bomb was the American one for winning a year. But American technology did not go further, because it was inferior to Soviet

    Chelomey did not launch shuttles long before the Shuttles. "Spiral" never flew into space. Bora-4s have been launched into space since 1982 (the Shuttle flew on April 12, 1981). They did not fly before the shuttle flights.

    The bomb was not stolen. Let us nevertheless, on the one hand, not belittle the merits of our nuclear scientists. and on the other hand, talk about the impasse of the Americans. Information about the design came, but not in the form of drawings and flow charts and reports, but in the form of diagrams, drawings, individual calculations.
    The first bomb was actually close to the American one in design. But it was blown up 3 years after Shitatovskaya. You can find out why and where the American technology "did not go" if they carried out 5 tests before our first explosion, not counting the very first and two tests on Japanese cities. What kind of dead end in technology are we talking about? The Americans detonated the thermonuclear warhead before our bomb. Even though it was not transportable, the circuit was tested ...

    Quote: meandr51
    It's right. I know from the practice of work in the 70s a case when in 1972 a seeker from Vietnam from the latest modification of the Sidewinder rocket was brought to our institute and admired the characteristics
    photodetector and design. And years through 20, the Americans got at the disposal of the GDR MIG-29
    and ofigeli from the P-73 and the helmet-mounted sight ... So who has stolen what? In my opinion, you should not pay attention to this at all. It matters what is in service. The rest is lyrics.

    There are probably dozens of such examples. The aerodynamic scheme of the royal "seven" was created by the German group at Seliger before 1953, when they were allowed to return to the GDR. But no one says that the scheme was stolen by Korolev, because apart from the purely external similarity, the "insides" were different. And she not only flew, but still flies ...
    Degtyarev's submachine gun looks very similar to the Finnish Suomi. So, what is next? You can continue indefinitely.

    Quote: Timon2155
    I wonder what kind of space shuttle we copied? Does Buran mean the author? If so, then he is poorly versed in the essence of the matter. I will not write about the fundamental differences between our shuttle and Energy - this is understandable

    Well, one of the options for our shuttle looked outwardly like an American shuttle. But only outwardly. This is EMNIP OS-120. Just like on the Shuttle, the marching engines were on the shuttle itself. But copying (in full) cannot be called either. Otherwise, it will be possible to wallow in disputes about who has done something, starting from a glass and a fork and ending with what.




    Quote: Avior
    Not to mention the fact that the drain continues - they intend to merge SPRN technologies to China, one of the pillars of Russia's nuclear safety.

    In principle, this is not necessary. It was announced that we would help them in creating a missile defense system. And they already have radars of early warning systems similar to our "Daryal" type radars on alert. Their truth is less monstrous.

    Quote: kondrat13
    and the Americans themselves, of course, came up with a bomb to show us that we stole it from them. It is believed that the Americans took the three finished products from the Germans. And ours are stockpiles of weapons-grade isotopes. As with the carriers, by the way - they got von Braun with the team, and we almost all the remaining FAAs. The first bomb tested, Trinity, like Fatty, were plutonium, implosive. Kid - uranium, cannon type. New high technologies could not simultaneously develop in two ways. By the way, a year after these three explosions, the Americans did not test nuclear weapons - apparently there simply weren’t and hastily finished up the technology.

    As for the fact that the Americans took something from the Germans from nuclear weapons - stupidity. The maximum that they could take was uranium ore and accumulated uranium. All this is conspiracy thesis. We didn’t get the isotopes, or if they did, then in scanty amounts, but the uranium mine in the GDR - yes. The Americans got not only the Brown team, but also a huge number of ready-made missiles and their semi-finished products. We actually took out several missiles and spare parts from which we assembled and tested the EMNIP 25 missiles.

    As for the charges of the two designs, each had its own supporters and opponents in the United States. In principle, the "kid" would not need to be tested. The construction there was simple. But the design of the "Fat Man" was not yet tested, it still had to be tested.

    The claim that the Americans did not test new bombs for a year is not true. They detonated the next bomb after "Fat Man" 10 months later. In 1946 there were two explosions in the framework of Operation Crossroads, in 1948 - three in the framework of Operation Sandstone. They didn’t blow up for a simple reason. Trinity, Kid, and Fatty had all of their fissile materials gone and took time to get them going. But this does not speak in favor of the conspiracy theory that the first three were taken out of Germany.
  35. Johann Klassen
    Johann Klassen 6 October 2019 17: 19
    +2
    Who would say, and it would be better for the Yankees to close their mouth openings with a lock.
    In the days of the USSR, Americans stole with the help of traitors from one well-known nationality, quite a few secrets in the field of aviation and rocket science.
    Under Yeltsin B., an entire army of American specialists flooded Russia, stole everything, along with design bureaus, and the documentation and equipment of the people who worked there.
  36. Astronaut
    Astronaut 6 October 2019 17: 55
    0
    "The Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of" acquiring "Western technology without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles."

    Who would mumble, and the American would be silent ... Who has appropriated stealth technology for himself, not to mention the TV?
  37. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 6 October 2019 18: 36
    -1
    Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
    If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

    At the end of the 90s, on one operating mailbox, the cunning boss took out several machines (large enough) "for scheduled maintenance", then neither the chief nor the machines were seen. Those services, which had to protect something, had to feed their families. And that was in Moscow.
    And what is happening in / in Ukraine and not in a fairy tale to say a pen to describe.
    In vain, the Americans are so sure that the Chinese are copying planes without the Ukrainian part of the documentation: "I purchased a prototype Su-33 T-10K-3 from Ukraine, and then redesigned it without acquiring documents for the use of technologies."
  38. Eug
    Eug 6 October 2019 19: 00
    0
    They bought a plane, but they decided to save on the brains for it, a file and a couple of wagons of change notifications ... well, they chose the road themselves - so do not complain.
  39. Arturov
    Arturov 6 October 2019 19: 05
    -1
    writes an American magazine, hinting that China has "avenged" Russia for "stealing" technology from the West. This is despite the fact that in the US they constantly say that the Chinese are constantly stealing technology from them.

    noname news compiler confused in testimony wassat wassat
    In general, the Chinese have shown their attitude to the best friend. And the best friend caved in, I liked it, we are waiting for another pipeline at our own expense to friends. tongue
  40. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 7 October 2019 04: 16
    0
    In modern technologies it is not enough to steal a sample !!! The Chinese are learning fast.
  41. Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 7 October 2019 06: 09
    0
    Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
    If technology is stolen, then where are the services that protect these secrets ?!

    What other services? The country's leadership enthusiastically proclaims that it will help China build an anti-missile system better than the Russian one! It is also necessary to advise that the launch codes are reported to the "friend of C" daily!
  42. EvilLion
    EvilLion 7 October 2019 08: 11
    0
    J-15 engines and heavy weight seriously limit the effectiveness of the fighter: with an empty mass of 17,5 tons, it exceeds the weight usual for carrier-based fighters. The weight of the empty F-18, for comparison, is 14,5 t, Su-33 - 16 tons.


    You can immediately see the experts. If only we could get acquainted with the equation of existence of the aircraft.
  43. Old26
    Old26 7 October 2019 09: 15
    +2
    Quote: maidan.izrailovich
    And those missiles that the USSR exported from Germany were unable to go into space.

    Well, they went out into space. Apogee that the FAU-2, that our R-1 and R-2 had more than 100 km. The question is, that there was no space (orbital) flight.

    Quote: maidan.izrailovich
    And nothing was done on their basis.

    Of course, nothing has been done. Especially if you do not count P-1 and P-2

    Quote: maidan.izrailovich
    The USSR also had its own achievements in rocket science. Started back in the 30s. They became the basis for future missiles.

    Yeah. There were. That's just the maximum thrust of such missiles was about 30 times less than that of the FAU-2. And these developments have remained as developments. On the basis of these missiles, all versions of the RS for Katyushas were made. Read Chertok better than write that. Maybe then you will at least have an idea of ​​what and how it was. And what developments formed the basis of our first ballistic missiles
  44. kuz363
    kuz363 7 October 2019 12: 18
    -1
    Well, by the way, at the military parade, they showed the intercontinental solid-fuel rocket DF-41 c with a range of 12000 km and 10-12 warheads. And in Russia, only Poplar with 1 head is solid fuel. and the long-suffering Mace.
  45. Mentat
    Mentat 7 October 2019 15: 13
    +1
    Quote: kuz363
    Well, by the way, at the military parade, they showed the intercontinental solid-fuel rocket DF-41 c with a range of 12000 km and 10-12 warheads. And in Russia, only Poplar with 1 head is solid fuel. and the long-suffering Mace.

    Suffering is your attempt to suck out some virtual problems that are not there.
    Of course, you didn’t hear anything about Yars, but you need to put gas on the forum.

    The mace is so "long-suffering" that the Americans jump out of their pants, trying to buy information on it. Naturally, you are not aware of this either.

    The purpose of your post is obvious: stealthily try to create a negative impression of the “backward army of Russia”. You’re still not tired of doing this squalor, when has everyone understood for a long time that this “song” is from the past?

    As for DF-41, there is no information on the complex at all. All performance reports are mere assumptions.
  46. Simon
    Simon 7 October 2019 17: 57
    0
    The American publication did not fail to recall that "the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia also had the habit of" acquiring "Western technology without the consent of the owners, from the atomic bomb to space shuttles."

    Well, the Americans themselves are very clean at hand! In the nineties under Yeltsin, how many Soviet technological documentation were dragged to themselves. In addition, how many specialists under Gorbachev and Yeltsin were also lured to themselves. So it would be better to be silent.
  47. Simon
    Simon 7 October 2019 18: 02
    0
    Quote: kuz363
    Well, by the way, at the military parade, they showed the intercontinental solid-fuel rocket DF-41 c with a range of 12000 km and 10-12 warheads. And in Russia, only Poplar with 1 head is solid fuel. and the long-suffering Mace.

    To show anything you can, it is only unknown whether it flies or not. It is not visible that the Americans tested their product.
  48. sergey3106
    sergey3106 7 October 2019 20: 33
    0
    The main thing is to slander these ovs !!! "Buran" was developed by Soviet engineers from beginning to end! NOTHING THERE IS COPYED .... (creeping creatures, not rejoicing at the venality of "our" elite) But that after the collapse they took everything out of here and how they copied the stolen "moment", they quickly stuck their tongues in the ass !!!
  49. Old26
    Old26 7 October 2019 20: 54
    +2
    Quote: kuz363
    Well, by the way, at the military parade, they showed the intercontinental solid-fuel rocket DF-41 c with a range of 12000 km and 10-12 warheads. And in Russia, only Poplar with 1 head is solid fuel. and the long-suffering Mace.

    "The legend is fresh, but hard to believe." The DF-41 may be a rocketry masterpiece, but only Chinese. It has so many differences (for the worse) from even the old-fashioned "Poplar". what can we say about this rocket as something outstanding? A range of 12000 km has never been obtained. This is a purely theoretical range. The launch to the maximum range was never carried out.
    As for the warheads. It is highly doubtful that in its dimensions it can carry three times more warheads than the same Yars. If only they will have a capacity of 25-50 kt. And with the maximum they experienced was with 2 warheads

    Quote: Simon
    Quote: kuz363
    Well, by the way, at the military parade, they showed the intercontinental solid-fuel rocket DF-41 c with a range of 12000 km and 10-12 warheads. And in Russia, only Poplar with 1 head is solid fuel. and the long-suffering Mace.

    To show anything you can, it is only unknown whether it flies or not. It is not visible that the Americans tested their product.

    Flies. There were 8 successful launches.
  50. Roman1970_1
    Roman1970_1 7 October 2019 23: 31
    0
    However, despite the fact that the largest economy in the world


    Did I oversleep?
    When they became the largest