Military Review

Echo of the Soviet-Polish war of 1919 - 1920: history or politics

44
Soviet-Polish war of 1919 - 1920's - black spot on stories Russian-Polish relations and one of the most unpleasant and controversial episodes in the history of Russia 20 century, for many decades to come, determined the nature of relations between the two countries. The theme of the 1919-1920 war is the ground for political speculation within Russia. The unconditional surrender of the national interests of Russia following the results of the First World War by the Bolsheviks, who by definition were defeatists, initially voluntarily distributing the territories of the empire to the right and left and waiting for an imminent “world revolution”, is not a reason to continue to propagate defeatism in our modern society and praise the Poles for the so-called “Miracle on the Vistula” - a victory over the “Red Hydra” near Warsaw in August 1920.

Echo of the Soviet-Polish war of 1919 - 1920: history or politics


Despite all attempts at historical reconciliation being undertaken by the leaders of the two countries at present, historical grievances continue their destructive action, resulting in various conflicts affecting all spheres of relations between the two peoples and making the western borders of Russian space a direction of constant geopolitical tension.

It is not customary to speak about that war in sublime tones, it is especially not customary to recall it in Russia. In Poland, on the contrary, they actively recall those events, making them a subject of national pride. Despite the well-known international confusion that prevailed in Europe at that time and the desire of certain forces to finally loosen it and plunge it into the chaos of revolutions, one thing is clear - the conflict was initiated from the “other side”. Pilsudski, driven by the desire to restore the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, took advantage of the fratricidal turmoil that began in Russia and the actual disintegration of the country and acted just like its predecessors did in 400 years before - during the time of the other Great Troubles, fixing their gaze on the western territories of Russia - Ukrainian and Belarusian land. That's right: when Russia weakens on its outskirts, the so-called national liberation movement immediately rises. The outskirts of the empire go out of control and fall under the influence of the great-power neighbors, who traditionally considered their territories as theirs, not Russian, and there is no reason to speak of any “national interests of the Ukrainian people”. It is absolutely impossible to present a truly independent Ukrainian or Belarusian state as part of the reunited Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or at least in the neighborhood of it - such a number goes only with the Bolsheviks craving power and perhaps with the liberals of the new Russia. Pilsudsky’s great-power chauvinism is no different from a similar Russian. As such, there is nothing negative about it. The idea of ​​restoring imperial statehood in one form or another is the normal pursuit of a normal great power, which Poland once was, and in essence, continues to be, since it preserves the corresponding national ambitions and the comprehensive ideological basis of its expansionist policies, developed over the centuries.

So, we turn to the events of the Soviet-Polish war 1919 - 1920. The first clashes of the Red Army with the Polish military formations began in February 1919. While the future of Soviet power was in question, the Poles took a wait and see attitude. When by the beginning of 1920, the final victory of the Bolsheviks became apparent, large-scale hostilities began.

The Bolshevik leadership, delirious with the idea of ​​a world revolution, was ready to order the start of the march into Europe through the territory of Poland. The Soviets hoped that the Polish working class would join the ranks of the Red Army. Pilsudski had completely different, more pragmatic plans, which have already been described above.



Pilsudski was undoubtedly a visionary statesman with a clear strategic mindset. Realizing that the one-stage restoration of a large Poland within the borders of 1772 of the year (before the Dnieper) would be impossible, in April of 1920 of the year he made an alliance with the head of the Ukrainian nationalists Simon Petlyura. According to the agreement of the two figures, the Polish government recognized the independence of Ukraine, and Petliurists turned a blind eye to the withdrawal of Eastern Galicia and Western Volyn to Poland. This deal and untied the Poles.

The Polish army seized the initiative from the very beginning of hostilities. Already in May, the Poles came to the Dnieper, seizing Kiev and Minsk. The Red Army responded with the creation of two organized fronts — the Western, which operated in Belarus under the command of Tukhachevsky, and the South-Western, which operated in Ukraine under the command of Yegorov. Kiev and Minsk were liberated in the same month, and by the beginning of June the entire territory of Ukraine and Belarus, including their western regions, was liberated from the Polish troops. In mid-July 1920, the Bolshevik leadership decided to continue the offensive in Poland itself. A Polish Soviet government was created under the authority of Felix Dzerzhinsky and Julian Markhlevsky.

And so, in August, Tukhachevsky approached Warsaw, and the country's leadership decided not to merge the two fronts into one. The commander decided to make a workaround, and then suddenly from the rear Poles under the command of Pilsudski attacked the Red Army near the town of Radzivin. Began a two-week operation, called "The Miracle on the Vistula."

As a result of this operation, the western front of Tukhachevsky was crushed, 45000 people were interned by the Germans, 25000 Red Army men were killed, and 60000 were captured. All these figures are approximate, as until now, historians have not been able to find a sufficient number of reliable historical sources that would allow more accurate losses in the ranks of the Red Army. Unfortunately, for obvious reasons, practically no attention was paid to the historical science of our country by the Soviet-Polish war, and only in recent decades it began to be studied more actively. However, here, as we have said before, history often falls prey to politics. The events of that ridiculous and extremely cruel war are too difficult to interpret unambiguously and unbiasedly because of their inconsistency and obvious ugliness.

Painting Jerzy Kossak "Miracle of the Vistula"


Crimes took place on both sides, and this was a new cause for conflict. The position of the captured Red Army soldiers in the Polish camps and the high mortality rate began to be set against the events that occurred in Katyn. It is believed that they were subjected to torture and mass executions, with the result that few managed to survive. In response to these accusations, Polish historians claim that the heavy losses among the prisoners are explained by the fact that the camps were not ready for such a number of soldiers. At the time of the defeat, many of them were sick with typhus, smallpox, and dysentery, spreading among large concentrations of prisoners of war in conditions far from all sanitary standards. The bullying of sadistic wardens and executions is refuted by the Polish side, but it is not always taken into account by Russian politicians who admit that executions in Katyn are the answer of the Soviet side to these events.

In recent years, dates connected with the history of that war, and especially the anniversary of the “Miracle on the Vistula” are actively celebrated in Poland. Celebration of anniversaries, films about the genius Pilsudski and the installation of monuments to wars who died in the Soviet-Polish war are actively used by Polish politicians during election campaigns. And the point here is often not only in the special national pride of the Poles and respect for their history, but in the commonplace exploitation of Russophobia and Soviet phobia. The distinction between these two concepts has not been drawn, which means that the end in the historical confrontation between the two Slavic powers has not yet been made. Russophobia-Soviet phobia continues to be the main obstacle to genuine historical reconciliation between the two powers. And we, and the Poles, must finally throw off all the insults and call things by their names, having analyzed the objective causes of past conflicts and their terrible consequences. In the meantime, not only the Poles, but we ourselves do not know where the border separating the concepts of "Russian" and "Soviet", and whether it exists, we can not decide what all the same was Bolshevism, and what role he played in the development of the country and the world, who Lenin is, and who we are the saviors of the world, the highly spiritual God-bearing people or the evil empire, holding a nuclear club in its hands and mired in dictatorship, corruption, crime, general ignorance and drunkenness. Such is our story - our greatest wealth and terrible burden ...
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  1. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 11 July 2012 09: 18
    +1
    Woeful events. Now in relations with Poland there are more emotions and politics on their part.
  2. PSih2097
    PSih2097 11 July 2012 09: 18
    +4
    Polish historians, in response to these allegations, claim that the large losses among the prisoners are due to the fact that the camps were not ready for so many soldiers. By the time of the defeat, many of them were sick with typhus, smallpox, and dysentery, which spread among a large concentration of prisoners of war in conditions far from all sanitary standards. The bullying of sadistic warders and executions is refuted by the Polish side, but is not always taken into account by Russian politicians, who admit that the executions in Katyn are the Soviet response to these events.

    It is a pity that Pilsudski did not live to see the war ... He would have used the Germans, that ours would have been remembered.
  3. rennim
    rennim 11 July 2012 10: 27
    +7
    The article is based largely on speculation .... If the author forgot ... I recall, the European Court of Human Rights recognized the USSR’s non-involvement in the execution of Polish prisoners of war ... And no one has any right to blame and, moreover, to humiliate the Russian Federation. As for the distribution of land by the Bolsheviks and the infamous Brest peace, there is no objectivity whatsoever. You can’t rewrite history. But you shouldn’t despise our ancestors ...
    1. rexby63
      rexby63 11 July 2012 14: 28
      +5
      Totally agree with you. After 17, the Bolsheviks, seeming at first glance as cosmopolitans and internationalists, were at that time probably the most consistent "imperials". And all these territories, such as the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Finland, would not bring anything except a headache
  4. sapulid
    sapulid 11 July 2012 11: 54
    +2
    What did the author want to say? Solyanka from the assumptions, it seems to me, is not even of the correspondent himself. The causes of the defeat are named secondary. The main reason is the lack of supply due to the separation of the advanced armies from the rear.

    This topic is not new here, therefore, the superficiality of the review is surprising.
    Minus for the flaws.
  5. AIvanA
    AIvanA 11 July 2012 11: 57
    +1
    The article is not very, again, a very short time period, and if you look a little further, we see continuous marauder raids of glades on Russia, Shlyakhtichy on Russia, well, you yourself will see if you want, and Poland Russia has never been and will never be friendly, such a feeling that they have anti-Russian and Greater Poland’s views right at birth appear, to be friends with at least someone, would deprive Russia’s directive.
  6. Dobrokhod Sergey
    Dobrokhod Sergey 11 July 2012 12: 17
    +2
    This is how to describe the campaign of two dandies in a nutshell. The Lyakhs agreed to negotiations and the spacecraft stopped the offensive, the Poles took advantage of this and made a regrouping. Here is a "miracle". Deception and deceit, and of course the military operation of the Poles, which was successfully carried out at that moment.
  7. 8 company
    8 company 11 July 2012 12: 28
    -1
    It is rather strange on the part of the author, talking about the Soviet-Polish war, not to mention the very sensational refusal of the command of the South-Western Front to fulfill the order of the Republican Strategic Military Council and to allocate the 1st Horse to the ZF. Which, in the opinion of many military experts, could have prevented the Polar Division catastrophe. It was this story that later served as a long and serious irritant in relations between Tukhachevsky and his supporters, on the one hand, and a group of high-ranking "cavalrymen" supported by Stalin. How did it end, you need to remind? Or not?
    1. rexby63
      rexby63 11 July 2012 18: 25
      +1
      If only if only. Try to better explain how the "brilliant" commander of all times and peoples Tukhachevsky, having a two-fold advantage in manpower, managed to get it all ...
      1. 8 company
        8 company 11 July 2012 19: 18
        0
        Quote: rexby63
        having a twofold advantage in manpower,


        Did you dream of this or do you have authoritative sources? Bring them and do a comparative analysis of the forces so that no one and a shadow of doubt remain in your awareness.
        1. rexby63
          rexby63 11 July 2012 20: 54
          +2
          NOT. Kakurin, I.I. Vatsetis Civil War. 1918-1921. Both are prominent "Tukhachevites", it is difficult to suspect in subjectivity
          1. 8 company
            8 company 11 July 2012 22: 33
            0
            Quote: rexby63
            NOT. Kakurin, I.I. Wacetis Civil War. 1918-1921.


            And why are you shy to bring the numbers? You don’t want to prove your thesis about the double superiority of Tukhachevsky’s forces, it’s just strange. And here I am where I will not look at the links, everywhere there is equality of forces, that before the start of the Tukhachevsky offensive in Belarus, in the Warsaw region. Bill Lyakhov Tukhachevsky without any advantage in strength, as he had beaten Kolchak and Denikin before, because he had real military talent that fans of Stalin would never recognize. And you do not recognize, you will get out to the last. But Stalin had to be shot before the formation of the command staff for not fulfilling the order of the PBC.
            1. rexby63
              rexby63 11 July 2012 22: 52
              +1
              91,5 thousand bayonets and sabers against the Polish 62,5 thousand. On the main strike, Tukhachevsky concentrated 60 thousand against the Polish 31 thousand

              Bill Lyakhov Tukhachevsky without any advantage in strength, as he had beaten Kolchak and Denikin before, because he had real military talent,


              And what am I doing to you as I justify myself? Name at least one work on the history of the civil war, confirming that the size of the army and groups of the Red Army was inferior to the formations of the All-Union Socialist Republic of Ukraine. By the way, regarding your idol, neither in the Buguruslan, nor in Tikhoretskaya operations did White have any numerical advantage.
              1. 8 company
                8 company 11 July 2012 23: 13
                -1
                Quote: rexby63
                Name at least one work on the history of the civil war, confirming that the size of the army and groups of the Red Army was inferior to the formations of the All


                Ha ha ha, hold me seven, so this is no longer a double superiority of Tukhachevsky’s forces? laughing

                How you "elegantly" departed to the prepared positions! lol

                It is also very funny that you blame T. for the concentration of forces in the direction of the main blow:
                "Tukhachevsky concentrated 60 thousand against the Polish 31 thousand on the main strike site"

                Yes, it's fun with you, I swear ... wink
                1. rexby63
                  rexby63 12 July 2012 00: 17
                  +1
                  What is it, the new rules of behavior - not to answer the question, and so it’s a little bit vile to find an inconsistency in the data of the opponent. What do you say, dear? I asked a question
                  1. 8 company
                    8 company 12 July 2012 00: 26
                    -2
                    Quote: rexby63
                    it’s a little bit vile to find an inconsistency in the opponent’s data.


                    That is, if the opponent discovers data mismatch from you, then he acts meanly. And if you find your opponent? winked

                    I asked a question


                    Sorry, I didn’t quite understand your question. Is it possible to articulate it more clearly? And don’t forget, you and I haven’t drunk at Brudershaft yet.
                    1. rexby63
                      rexby63 12 July 2012 15: 55
                      0
                      What is at least one work on the history of the civil war, confirming that the size of the army and groups of the Red Army was inferior to the formations of the All-Union Socialist League.
                      I hope it's clear now? Or as for ensigns - another encore.
                      And your meanness lies in the fact that you never answer "uncomfortable" questions. Let's remember a week ago the questions regarding the GAZ performance. You didn’t answer my question then either. And about jokes in Soviet times, they decided to keep silent. How can I call you after that on "you"? "You" is when you respect a person, regardless of whether he is an enemy or a friend
                      1. 8 company
                        8 company 12 July 2012 19: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: rexby63
                        What is at least one work on the history of the civil war, confirming that the size of the army and groups of the Red Army was inferior to the formations of the All-Union Socialist League.
                        I hope you understand now?


                        Once again I apologize, but again it is not clear: with what fright should I look for works that confirm that the strength of the Red Army was inferior to the forces of the Poles? I have never claimed this. My thesis, which I upheld from the very beginning, I want to quote you again:

                        “But I’m where I don’t look at the links, everywhere there is equality of forces, that before the start of Tukhachevsky’s offensive in Belarus, in the Warsaw region.”

                        That is, at the moment you impudently attributed to me the statement "that the size of the army and groups of the Red Army was inferior to the units of the Armed Forces" and demand that I prove it to you. At the same time, you declare that I am mean and cannot be respected. And you are also surprised that I do not answer some of your questions. Hmm, oil painting ... It's good that I'm already used to this behavior of some opponents. I started to somehow discuss with one of the other local regulars, considering him a decent person, and then calculated that he attributed 4 theses to me during the day, which I did not even express in hints, and he publicly rinsed me for them purely in your style ...
                        I think we will not find a common language with you. I consider further conversation pointless.
                      2. rexby63
                        rexby63 12 July 2012 19: 38
                        0
                        Thank you, you answered all my questions
  8. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 11 July 2012 12: 44
    +1
    The author flies like a gray gelding!
    Only the ignoramus is trying to drag Katyn as revenge for bullying our prisoners - it was Katyn who wasn’t standing next to her, those involved in war crimes and malicious enemies, only less than 4 thousand were shot according to the court’s sentences, the rest - contact the Germans ...
    Then the author too softly describes the predatory plans of the Poles - does it mean that Pislsudsky agreed with Petliura? And under what conditions did the Poles have to be beaten out of Kiev? What then is left from Ukraine?
    frivolous article - minus, fat and bold ...
  9. The centurion
    The centurion 11 July 2012 13: 28
    +4
    The zigzags of Russian-Polish relations cannot be considered without regard to the particularities of the Polish mentality. In terms of mentality, Poles are a unique people, even by the standards of unlimited European political prostitution, hypocrisy and hypocrisy. They fiercely hate all their neighbors, and the Russians, contrary to the prevailing opinion among us, are far from the first in this hatred. Living in such an environment is very difficult and very dangerous, so for their safety they traditionally seek sponsors and patrons overseas, overseas. Under their patronage and patronage, the Poles frantically and with impunity spoil all their neighbors, causing them no less fierce hostility. But life is a striped thing, a strip of light, a strip of black. And in the period of the black line, when the foreign patrons of Poland are very busy with themselves and their problems, for example, the war for the Spanish inheritance, Poland’s neighbors quickly begin to make friends against her and amicably clean her face. According to this almost everyday scenario, in the second half of the 18 century, Poland’s neighbors arranged an 3 section for her. But the Poles are numb, their face is constantly chronically itching. So it's not evening yet. As soon as their current patron Uncle Sam breaks a leg or arm somewhere, the Polish neighbors will immediately prescribe another pill for chronic scabies of the face to the Poles. And as always, the main doctor here will be their ancient doctor - Germany. And despite my already old age, for some reason it seems to me that with this I will still have time to attend.
    1. Alf
      Alf 11 July 2012 23: 11
      +2
      Anecdote in the topic:
      There is a football match between Poland and Germany. Commentator:
      Only the seventh minute of the match is on, and the Germans are already leading prisoners.
  10. Leisure
    Leisure 11 July 2012 13: 50
    +3
    the concepts of "Russian" and "Soviet", there is no border. Conflicts with pontogorye, were from ancient times to our time, no matter who is in power in Russia. Lyakham, not destined to become a great empire, from there envy, how the wild hordes of Russo-Mongols could develop such territory, and the great Poles, are sitting on a small piece of geyropov, sandwiched between two fires. The whole history of Poland was made up of rare successes and big bummers - not a hat for Senka.
  11. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 11 July 2012 14: 02
    0
    Interesting comments. Similar write on the nationalist sites of Poland. For me, a common border with Germany is better than laying.
    1. Leisure
      Leisure 11 July 2012 14: 52
      +1
      No, a gasket, a useful thing. Also, people are not a gift, therefore, it is necessary to obscure something.
      1. storm
        storm 12 July 2012 00: 44
        0
        Somehow it turns out that Russia is at war with Germany, and Poland is under the deal! It has always been, it will be now! The Germans have long been plagued by Poland’s great-power ambitions, they are both (countries) in the EU, but this is unlikely to prevent the Germans from indicating Poland in its place! Although, frankly, the Germans are no longer the same!
    2. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 11 July 2012 16: 35
      +1
      Quote: AK-74-1
      Interesting comments. Similar write on the nationalist sites of Poland.

      Excuse me, that is, they write the same thing about us on their websites?
      1. AK-74-1
        AK-74-1 11 July 2012 17: 20
        +1
        My comrade lives in Poland sometimes extracts from the site of the party "Law and Justice" (this is the party of the twin nedobitka) throws off. The jacket is being rolled up from Russophobia.
  12. jury08
    jury08 11 July 2012 14: 48
    -6
    All this is a great power showdown! The simple Belarusian peasant lived better under the pan than under the Bolsheviks.
    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 11 July 2012 20: 19
      0
      Quote: jury08
      All this is a great power showdown! The simple Belarusian peasant lived better under the pan than under the Bolsheviks.

      And the concentration camp Birch-Kartuzskaya was a sanatorium.
      1. storm
        storm 12 July 2012 00: 46
        0
        And then what was Khatyn?
      2. Morani
        Morani 12 July 2012 01: 43
        0
        Almost all Ukrainians were in Birch. The Ukrainians fought actively for their independence with Poland, Germany, and the Soviets.
        1. Dobrokhod Sergey
          Dobrokhod Sergey 12 July 2012 10: 47
          0
          Quote: Morani
          The Ukrainians fought actively for their independence with Poland, Germany, and the Soviets.

          When was this?
  13. Leisure
    Leisure 11 July 2012 15: 05
    +4
    It’s not a shame, to a simple Belarusian peasant, to live under someone.
  14. redcod
    redcod 11 July 2012 15: 09
    0
    It is high time for Russia to understand that the current relations with Poland and Ukraine must be put on an economic footing. Neither Ukrainians nor Poles have ever felt and will never feel a commonality with the Russian people. This is especially evident now, when some have just, for the first time, acquired sovereignty, which they do not want to lose, while others cannot forgive the humiliation that they suffered from a country that at one time had been fighting with great success. Together, both of them sleep and see themselves in the EURO zone, since then they themselves will no longer need to plow.
    1. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 11 July 2012 16: 38
      +2
      Quote: redcod
      Neither Ukrainians nor Poles have ever felt and will never feel a commonality with the Russian people.

      Well, if by Ukrainians you mean the population of that region, which was once part of Austria-Hungary, then you are right. Than the West manages to infect the Slavs so that they begin to hate their "wild eastern relatives" so fiercely ...
      1. AK-74-1
        AK-74-1 11 July 2012 19: 30
        0
        Money gives, which increases consumer demand within their own economies and intrigues among the fraternal people.
    2. storm
      storm 12 July 2012 00: 48
      0
      You do not generalize ALL Ukrainians!
  15. MI-AS-72
    MI-AS-72 11 July 2012 19: 28
    +1
    The main reasons for the failure of the Polish company:
    1. An attempt to bring the “world revolution” (Sovietization of Poland) closer from here the main goal of the company is to capture Warsaw, the decision was made at the level of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.), The main preacher of this idea is Trotsky, Lenin.
    2. The war on 2 fronts, at which time the army of Baron P.N. Wrangel, who (07.1920) could not count on victory, but she could tighten the war, thereby playing a fatal role in the history of the country.
    3. Kamenev and Stalin were against the march to Warsaw, but obeyed the decision of the Central Committee.
    4. For the failure of the Polish company they answered, a little earlier (1921) a number of commanders and commissars of the Western Front, and later Napoleon Tukhachevsky.
    1. Alf
      Alf 11 July 2012 23: 17
      0
      I agree, before rushing to the capital of Poland, it was necessary to defeat the Polish army, but the "great strategist" Tukhachevsky decided to do the opposite. The result is obvious and logical. It's good that Tukhachevsky was multiplied by zero until 41, it's scary to think what kind of things he would do.
  16. MI-AS-72
    MI-AS-72 11 July 2012 19: 50
    -1
    For all ages and all empires, Poland has been looked upon as an under-state as an example:
    1812 Napoleon Bonaparte:
    "... If my friend Alexander did not want to make peace in the chambers of the Kremlin, I will force him to sign his impotence on the banks of the Neva. But my conditions will be terrible. I will lay the Polish crown on myself, and for Prince Joseph Poniatowski we will create the Smolensk Duchy. We will revive the Kazan Khanate, and on the Don we will establish a Cossack kingdom ... We will split Russia ... "
  17. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 11 July 2012 21: 05
    0
    Interestingly, in 1941, Germany and I clashed not for life but for death, the question of the existence of the Russian people was at stake: to be or not to be, like Shakespeare’s. And now we are cooperating, rebooted, we talked as if we forgot, and we don’t remember in politics, they are normal by May 9, even with respect.
    WHAT IS THERE FOR THESE FUCKERS, OR NAPOLEON'S SYNDROME GAME OUT? YES ON THEIR PITTLE LANDS ONE ROCKETS OF THE "SATAN" TYPE AND THAT WILL BE MUCH !!!
  18. Alx1miK
    Alx1miK 12 July 2012 00: 03
    0
    In Russia there is still nuclear weapons, so you are quieter, damn dungeon children.
    1. storm
      storm 12 July 2012 00: 51
      +1
      For them, even nuclear weapons are many! Enough of a couple of Iskander divisions in Kaliningrad!
      1. The centurion
        The centurion 12 July 2012 07: 19
        0
        Quote: storm
        For them, even nuclear weapons are many! Enough of a couple of Iskander divisions in Kaliningrad!

        Suvorov said about this: Poland always costs us 10 divisions, if it is for us, then fight instead of it, if it is against us, then fight against it. It’s even worse now. If she is for us, then 10 divisions will be needed to guard the Poles from rebellion. It may even be better that they are in NATO, even if they are NATO guard.
  19. Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian 12 July 2012 16: 05
    0
    To my great regret, but from the 13th century, the Poles, who are close in spirit to us, are beginning to use various European cliques against the Russians, or rather, to promote the militant-Christianity.

    What this gave the Pole:
    - The loss of the Baltic and Mazovian lands, which were transferred to the Order of the Crusaders, before their liberation by the White-Russian-Lithuanian troops.
    - The unfair destruction of the Belarusian-Lithuanian culture led Poland to complete disintegration when most of the Belarusian-Lithuanian princes sided with Russians close to them in spirit.
    - Not to mention the 39th and the Warsaw Uprising of the 44th, so cynically betrayed by Churchill and other Europeans.

    And the war of 1919-1920 itself, it is surprising how Tukhachevsky was able to advance his troops to the Vistula on such a wide front and accept the battle there. And this is all during the devastation, famine, lack of weapons and military personnel. And Psutsky showed aerobatics maneuvering his cavalry.

    Let it be better never to repeat between our brother nations!
  20. shurikchaevnik
    shurikchaevnik 12 July 2012 19: 09
    0
    I never liked Poles, especially when I got carried away with history, I became indigestible for these psheks. There was such a state education - the ON was called. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was not considered the weakest at that time ... And then the ruling elite (would have strangled the nits) decided, following the lead of the psheks, to unite with these ******. As a result - the speech was sprinkled - it all ended in three sections. And how glad I am that under the Soviets (in 39) our current borders were returned to us. And with these **** you can only speak from a position of strength, otherwise the serpent-speaking people do not really understand. PS I don’t answer for the historical accuracy, but for some reason I can hardly believe it - the word "cattle" was applied to the peasant stratum of the population of Belarusians. Here is the tact of cattle-brothers "Slavs".
  21. jury08
    jury08 12 July 2012 20: 53
    0
    Quote: shurikchaevnik
    I never liked Poles, especially when I got carried away with history, I became indigestible for these psheks. There was such a state education - the ON was called. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was not considered the weakest at that time ... And then the ruling elite (would have strangled the nits) decided, following the lead of the psheks, to unite with these ******. As a result - the speech was sprinkled - it all ended in three sections. And how glad I am that under the Soviets (in 39) our current borders were returned to us. And with these **** you can only speak from a position of strength, otherwise the serpent-speaking people do not really understand. PS I don’t answer for the historical accuracy, but for some reason I can hardly believe it - the word "cattle" was applied to the peasant stratum of the population of Belarusians. Here is the tact of cattle-brothers "Slavs".

    I myself don’t burn with love for the Poles — but without Poland, there weren’t any of its hometowns and the BSSR in general or would have remained within the present borders of the Minsk region!
    1. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian 14 July 2012 17: 48
      0
      jury08,
      I want to note, on the contrary, there wouldn’t have been Belarusians if there hadn’t been Poland — in 1407-1411, it would have been turned into a wasallah of the Order of the Crusaders, and then, as they had done before, they would slowly have taken away all the Polish lands, and zilch and Co. .

      And given that the Crusader brothers were closer to the viceroy of God, they would be taken from the Poles and Co. So there would be no Poles at all.

      And here we are - the Mozavshans, Yatvyags, Jamoyts, Belarus-Lithuanians, Russians, and the real Hun Tatars of these Kryzhaks, first on the pitchfork, and then put on the counter, very rich Europeans say they were unreasonably guldins.

      "And you say sir, that we are alive" -Partos.
  22. Head Physician
    Head Physician 4 November 2017 22: 03
    +15
    Yes
    Miracle on the Vistula