Military Review

National project "Education". Positive analytics

247

Everything is bad, bad, bad ...


Critical attacks towards the organization of school and higher education have become a fashion trend of the last decade. One of the main arguments was the superiority of the Soviet school over "this is all."




The adherents of this idea cite the words of allegedly John Kennedy as the main transparency:
”Soviet education is the best in the world. We have to take a lot from it. USSR won the space race for the school desk ”
.

Firstly, it is not a fact that Kennedy even said that. Secondly, the phenomenal success of the Soviet space program cannot be completely attributed to a high level of school education. Rather, the ability of government administrators to accumulate the resources of an entire country to achieve a single goal. What we are not observing now, fortunately or unfortunately. And thirdly, if the school curriculum was so wonderful, why didn’t they win the moon race with the Americans? In addition, education, both school and university, was thoroughly saturated with ideology, which negatively affected even the content of curricula.

Think of Lysenko’s “scientific” dogmas and courses stories CPSU. Any model of education that can call itself successful must be organically integrated into the economic and political systems of the country. Unfortunately, the school in the USSR could somehow support only the political component of the state. Over time, a very inert model of Soviet education became one of the reasons for the collapse of the country. And when began years of unbridled democracy, all schools surfaced cons: no one knows how to implement their skills and talents of all the walls of factories, research institutes and universities. And those who can, are often very unscrupulous citizens. The history of the 90's may provide examples of this in abundance.

Many talk about excellent technical education in the USSR. And it is true. It was extremely difficult for a young engineer to realize himself in a planned economy. Salvation was work in the defense research institute, at the defense plant, as well as employment in the "general" project.

As a result, the country approached the 21st century with a critical technological lag behind the world and an unbalanced education system. Of course, there were positive moments in Soviet education, but we will talk about them a little later.

Another national project?


The national project "Education" in many ways should transfer the school and university education systems to new tracks, although it is impossible to talk about any revolutionary transformations. Rather, a set of measures to mitigate deficiencies. The most expensive segment of the national project is the federal project "Modern School". This is almost 300 billion rubles. As part of this area, rural schools, as well as schools in small towns, will be updated. By 2024, 230 thousand new school places will appear, which will finally allow us to abandon the third academic shift.

The project reveals, probably, one of the most painful problems of the modern Russian school - the depressing state of buildings and classrooms. Moreover, the appearance of the school depends on the region in which it is located. It is lucky if the children go to school in the Tyumen region, the Krasnodar Territory or in Moscow (not everywhere, by the way), when you are met by a well-kept educational institution with modern equipment. But if in the Sverdlovsk, Omsk or Kurgan regions ... In general, even now in the suburbs you can find schools that claim to be almost all-Russian educational centers, which have not been seriously repaired since the Soviet Union.



A serious problem of the entire structure of education since Soviet times was the almost pathological desire to enter higher education institutions. The line "school - university" has become for most the most commonplace. What have we come to? In the 1990 and 2000 years, a huge number of school graduates entered various universities. Those who are more up to date were able to get on a budget, the rest went for a fee. In almost every town and urban-type town, branches of serious educational institutions appeared. This, by the way, was the result of another surge in fertility in the early 80's. The efficiency of such universities was ridiculous - youth five years she studied at the expense of the state, for example, in the economic, legal and pedagogical universities, and then went in a completely different activity. If% 10-15% could work in their specialty, this was already good.

Some went further and after receiving the main diploma they paid for the second higher education and after three more years they finally got a second degree. Absurd? When they calculated how much state funds were actually wasted, the state decided to reform. Relatively low average life expectancy in the country added fuel to the fire, and even if a person 5-8 years old will learn for free ...

One of the consequences of changes in higher education was the introduction of a two-tier system (undergraduate and graduate programs), as well as a sharp reduction in various branches of universities issuing diplomas left and right.

By the way, it’s worth separately telling about the system of postgraduate education, that is, graduate school and doctoral studies, which actually discredited itself in the 1990 and 2000 years. This is especially true of the whole host of humanitarian specialties. Plagiarism, corruption, nepotism in a large part of the defense of candidate, doctoral dissertations and publication of articles then became the norm. This trend partially affected technical and natural sciences - it is still much easier to check research results.

Now with the defense of dissertations the situation is much more complicated. Firstly, after four years of undergraduate studies, a university graduate cannot enter graduate school - a master's level is required, and not every university has the appropriate conditions for this. Secondly, the Higher Attestation Commission put out a lot of advice on defending dissertations that raise suspicions of bias, and also reduced the list of peer-reviewed scientific journals.

The pursuit of giftedness


But back to the national project. One of the most important tasks of the work of the Ministry of Education (everyone remembers that now it is so, and not the Ministry of Education and Science?) Was the career guidance of the younger generation. Moreover, this must be done right now, on the next demographic wave that came after the catastrophic decline in the 90 years. One way or another, this project is served by the federal projects “Success of Every Child”, “Social Elevators for Everyone” and “Young Professionals”.

A good example of the development of career guidance in the school system is the All-Russian Forum "Projection", which can be found at proektoria.online. Here, the directions of the research work of the younger generation and career guidance are intertwined in a complex way. And by the end of 2024, more than 900 of thousands of children will receive clear instructions on building their own professional future as part of another project - “Ticket to the Future”. A special place in the structure of educational subjects will be given to “Technology” - a total technical re-equipment of classes and updating of the content are planned. Children will gain access and skills not only with a chisel and hammer, but also with an 3D printer and a laser machine. Further development will receive professional skills contests such as WorldSkills.

A lot of attention and a lot of billions of rubles were allocated for the financial support of young teachers, as well as advanced training for teachers with experience. The federal project “Export of Education” looks interesting. It provides for the following until 2024:
“Twice the number of foreign citizens studying in universities and research organizations, as well as the implementation of a package of measures for their employment.”


The social activity project is called upon to stir up a largely inert society.


Alexey Kudrin - an opponent of the national project "Education"


The work with gifted children, which for some reason is criticized by Doctor of Economics Alexei Kudrin, runs through the entire project with a red thread. In his opinion, it is not worth focusing on young talents now, but you should turn your eyes to lagging and problem children. Allegedly, international experience shows that it is among them that truly gifted children are hiding, capable of becoming real drivers of economic development. Of course, there is a certain amount of truth in these words: many great minds of the 19th and 20th centuries were ordinary two-threesomes at school, but the vast majority were socially adapted talents from childhood. In history, for every Einstein troika, you can find a couple of Landau's honors.

The officials of the Ministry of Education are well aware that the education of even one talented engineer or researcher can bring returns that are many times greater than all investments in education. That is why the administrator of the Education project is Marina Rakova, Deputy Minister of Education of the Russian Federation. At one time, she was the initiator of the creation in Russia of the Quantorium network of children's technology parks, modern analogues of Soviet technical creativity houses. You can get acquainted with the main directions of design work of young engineers “Nanokvantum”, “Avtokvantum”, “Neuroquantum”, “Aeroquantum”, “IT-quantum”, “Roboquantum”, “Cosmoquantum” and “Geoquantum” at kvantorium.ru.

Now in addition to the “Quantoriums” line, the centers of digital education for children “IT-KUB” are joining as part of the federal project “Digital educational environment”. Here, children will program in Python, Java, C ++, work with big data and develop applications for virtual reality. It is important that potential employers are involved in working with gifted children: Yandex, Samsung and Microsoft. By 2024, they plan to build 340 of such “cubes” and attract at least 136 thousand of children throughout Russia.

Marina Rakova, perhaps, is becoming the main driver of all innovations in the Ministry. At the end of the 90's, she was still a schoolgirl and successfully participated in the “Step into the Future” program organized by MSTU. N.E. Bauman. She became the winner of the All-Russian final “Step into the Future”, and later the international “Intel ISEF” and “European contest for young scientists”.

All-Russian Forum "Step into the Future" (www.step-into-the-future.ru) For decades, it has been an excellent platform for students to hone their research skills. Naturally, since the organizer is a purely technical MSTU, the range of areas of work has a serious inclination in the field of technical and natural sciences. A few years ago, the Ministry of Defense appeared as a partner in this program. The military, firstly, supports the participation of pupils of the cadet, Suvorov and Nakhimov schools in scientific work, and, secondly, in every possible way encourage projects of defense significance. Of course, all this should be viewed through the prism of the age of the participants - from the 1 class to the 1 course of universities. Nobody even requires fundamental discoveries from children, but the level of some projects is pleasantly surprising. So, in 2019, one of the winners was a student with the project "Development and creation of an effective jet engine for rocket modeling." By the way, at the competitions of young scientists of the European Union (EUCYS), the project was among the winners.

National project "Education". Positive analytics

Marina Rakova


Let's get back to the Soviet education system. All the best that a Russian school took from Soviet education is the fundamental nature of knowledge. If we compare the physics and chemistry textbooks in American schools with our even basic ones, it turns out that in the USA in high school they study what we have in the 6-8 classes. For example, alkalis across the ocean are considered as baking soda and pipe cleaning products. Now our school is moving away from the Soviet fundamentality of the subjects taught, although it is still very far from the US level.

From the material it may seem that everything is simply brilliant in the formation of our state. This, of course, is not so. There are enough problems, and many of them simply will not be able to solve the national project "Education", even if its financial support is multiplied. A certain problem is the transition of almost all pedagogical universities to undergraduate studies: that is, a young teacher comes to school after 4 years of study with an appropriate set of knowledge. At the same time, entering a pedagogical university, for example, at the Faculty of Physics and Mathematics, now there is no need to take physics. Enough exam in social studies, basic mathematics and the Russian language.

And, of course, the salary of teachers, which should be 100% (and at universities 200%) of the average for the region. In most schools in Russia, mention of this will cause a smile at best.

The differentiation of education into elite and “ordinary” schools is also alarming. Although this practice was also in the Soviet Union with schools at various universities and even research institutes. Still, I really want the teaching level to be equally high in all schools in the country.

At the end I will give a couple of numbers. The national project "Education" is designed to raise the level of education in Russia in the world ranking from 14 places to at least 10, and this must be done before the 2024 year. Wait and see.
Author:
Photos used:
kvantorium.ru, ru.wikipedia.org
247 comments
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  1. Greg Miller
    Greg Miller 30 September 2019 15: 07
    +20
    The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 30 September 2019 15: 23
      0
      Quote: Greg Miller
      The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

      I agree, but the electorate, which is in the civil service (officials, army, Russian guard, police), is of greater importance. All of them, as a rule, in a single rush, vote for edro and they provide a high percentage .. because:
      -organize and control them easier
      - there are a lot of them .. especially the bureaucratic apparatus, according to some estimates, the same as the USSR pr (6 ml of officials), but in the USSR the population was almost twice as large and progress stepped far, the data transfer speed and processing increased by several orders .. For this reason, we have so many officials, I think ..
      1. Sunstorm
        Sunstorm 30 September 2019 17: 32
        -7
        There is an investigation by RBC on the number of officials .. but you were too lazy to see it?) The main thing is to throw it on the authorities, right?)
      2. Harry.km
        Harry.km 1 October 2019 21: 00
        0
        Quote: Svarog
        I agree, but the electorate, which is in the civil service (officials, army, Russian guard, police), is of greater importance. All of them, as a rule, in a single rush, vote for edro and they provide a high percentage ..

        As for the army, the last elections showed. However, there are polling stations that were located on the territory of the HF and there the results, according to the CEC, are by no means unanimous and unequivocal.
    2. Mestny
      Mestny 30 September 2019 15: 25
      -6
      That is, how it works and what education does not know.
      1. LON
        LON 30 September 2019 17: 07
        +4
        Quote: Mestny
        That is, how it works and what education does not know.

        I know. It, for example, raises labor productivity. At the moment, Russia is in last, 36th place, among all countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, losing twice the average of $ 55.
    3. Vend
      Vend 30 September 2019 15: 29
      +8
      Quote: Greg Miller
      The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

      Quite the contrary, it increases the number of stupid and lazy youth in unauthorized rallies. And yet a low level of education leads to an increase in low-skilled workers.
      1. Greg Miller
        Greg Miller 30 September 2019 16: 14
        +8
        Quote: Wend
        Quote: Greg Miller
        The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

        Quite the contrary, it increases the number of stupid and lazy youth in unauthorized rallies. And yet a low level of education leads to an increase in low-skilled workers.

        Anatoly, do you really think that there is any significant difference between the ideas of Navalny and the ideas of Prime Minister Medvedev?
        1. Honest Citizen
          Honest Citizen 30 September 2019 16: 16
          +9
          There is. One wants to seize power, the second does not want to give it ...
        2. Vend
          Vend 30 September 2019 17: 14
          -2
          Quote: Greg Miller
          Quote: Wend
          Quote: Greg Miller
          The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

          Quite the contrary, it increases the number of stupid and lazy youth in unauthorized rallies. And yet a low level of education leads to an increase in low-skilled workers.

          Anatoly, do you really think that there is any significant difference between the ideas of Navalny and the ideas of Prime Minister Medvedev?

          And you take apart everything that Navalny does and what Medvedev has done, there the difference is obvious.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 16: 36
        +13
        Quote: Wend
        And yet a low level of education leads to an increase in low-skilled workers.

        And where should the highly qualified staff come from? Vocational school system restored? Media have begun to promote the popularization of workers?
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 September 2019 17: 17
          +3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Wend
          And yet a low level of education leads to an increase in low-skilled workers.

          And where should the highly qualified staff come from? Vocational school system restored? Media have begun to promote the popularization of workers?

          Do you think they want to occupy the niche of working professions? Just the opposite. They want to get a lot and work a little. For this reason, the buoys are happy.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 19: 28
            +7
            Quote: Wend
            They want to get a lot and work a little

            So the sample is not very bothered, but a lot of earning freeloader is promoted by almost all the media. What did you want as a result? Managers rule.
            In addition to the fact that working professions are unpopular now, they are also poorly paid.
            The result - there is no vocational school, the popularity is the same, the high salary is the same. Here it is, the reason.
            1. Constructor68
              Constructor68 1 October 2019 04: 38
              +1
              In addition to the fact that working professions are unpopular now, they are also poorly paid.

              If not in the subject, then do not lie. A good welder or locksmith of a control instrument receives more than the average manager and is more in demand on the labor market than the same manager.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 07: 23
                0
                Quote: Designer 68
                If not in the subject, then do not lie.

                Are you in the subject? I doubt something, because I work with my hands. And you said something about KiPa - where do they get well, a specific enterprise? We Kipovites for the maintenance of automatic TP in the housing stock receive below the average for the region.
                1. Constructor68
                  Constructor68 1 October 2019 13: 04
                  +1
                  Are you in the subject? I doubt something, because I work with my hands. And you said something about KiPa - where do they get well, a specific enterprise? We Kipovites for the maintenance of automatic TP in the housing stock receive below the average for the region.

                  If it seems, then you need to be baptized, and not write comments. I look at you with such insight (guessing the prof. Experience of the interlocutor in the profile picture) you can safely submit to TNT, to the battle of psychics.
                  Look at the Krasmash instrumentation locksmith, Krasnoyarsk.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 18: 46
                    +1
                    Quote: Designer 68
                    If it seems, then you need to be baptized

                    So be baptized if you think. Better with two hands - it helps. wink I said that I doubt. And I can describe in detail where you need to go, but only in PM. wink
                    Related - Instrument mechanic "Krasmash" no vacancies found in XX. But there is a resume of a person who is looking for a job in his specialty, previously worked at Krasmash, the desired salary is 27000 rubles. https://rosrabota.ru/res-full/205839003
                    27 thousand rubles for Krasnoyarsk is money? Himself not funny? fool This is an average of 45 thousand rubles in the city. Here, in Tolyatti, where the average salary is 27 tr, the Kipovites get 20-22 tr.
                    and the people are fleeing this work, because the requirements and volume are growing every year, but s / n is not.
                    You at least check the relevance of your information (or manuals) on the Internet. bully
                    1. Constructor68
                      Constructor68 1 October 2019 20: 10
                      -3
                      Related - Instrument mechanic "Krasmash" no vacancies found in XX.

                      You at least check the relevance of your information (or manuals) on the Internet

                      I didn’t find anything, but I made a conclusion. Just a genius of logical constructions.
                      and the people are fleeing this work, because the requirements and volume are growing every year, but s / n is not.

                      Manual update. How do you know who runs where? What side are you generally to working professions? Judging by professionalism in stuffing on a fan, all your income comes from ordering on the Internet. You tremble with your tongue like a broom.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 20: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: Designer 68
                        I didn’t find anything, but I made a conclusion. Just a genius of logical constructions.

                        So it was not me about the Kipovite who started with Krasmash. Are the links topical, or blather, and go to the person? wink Logic is either there or not. You don’t have it. As there is no real binding to your own words.
                        Quote: Designer 68
                        What side are you generally to working professions?

                        Man, have you been taught not to poke at strangers? Or rudeness without argument is all that you are capable of? You are all identical, there are no arguments, and immediately the transition to personality.
                      2. Constructor68
                        Constructor68 1 October 2019 20: 53
                        -5
                        So it was not me about the Kipovite who started with Krasmash. Are the links topical, or blather, and go to the person? wink The logic is either there or not. You don't have it. As there are no real bindings to your own words.

                        A miracle in feathers, you asked about an example - I answered you. If you want to check - collect your skinny seat in a handful and row quickly to the city of Krasnoyarsk, here on Krasnoyarsk worker avenue, in the plant management you will find OK, and ask them a question on salary for different specialists. But you, not finding information, chose to open your beak and start crowing "nivera". Go to hell with your mistrust!
                        Man, have you been taught not to poke at strangers? Or rudeness without argument is all that you are capable of? You are all identical, there are no arguments, and immediately the transition to personality.

                        You are treated the way you deserve it. And turning to "you" is not rudeness, an unrespected, uneducated creature.
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 21: 06
                        0
                        Here he is, an example of intelligence and argumentation! good
                      4. Constructor68
                        Constructor68 1 October 2019 21: 19
                        +4
                        Here he is, an example of intelligence and argumentation!

                        Don’t worry. Just think that with slogans about Russia's pauper you got a little taxed. In another branch, come off. Don’t feed you bread - let’s howl how bad everything is, everything fell apart and everyone ran away.
                      5. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 1 October 2019 21: 52
                        +6
                        Constructor, you are an intelligent, educated person! Why exacerbate the dialogue? belay
                        On technical issues, your comments are very interesting ... but, you don’t need to go to the person and poke the person you are talking to. I understand that my comment is more like a lecture, in no way did I want to offend you with this. Just LET you behave CORRECTLY. stop
                        Hello to you from Sanych! hi
                      6. Varyag71
                        Varyag71 4 October 2019 13: 13
                        -2
                        How does GMO eat? Have you already passed biometric data? Ready to chip your family soon? Ready to retire in 70 years?
                      7. Harry.km
                        Harry.km 1 October 2019 21: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        no arguments, and immediately the transition to the individual.

                        You forgot to mention the calculation of commas and dots. This is the main crown argument, when questions and requests from the troll end, and write what you need))))
                2. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 1 October 2019 20: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  I ... work with my hands

                  Details, let’s say that you are shy, really ... how red the girl is wink
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 21: 08
                    -4
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    Details let us be shy of something,

                    What Kitty missed you? Or do you have a troll coven today? wassat And on my work, we have already talked. Ali sclerosis tortured? wink
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 1 October 2019 21: 18
                      +2
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      What kitty

                      Ingvar, you have glitches wink

                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Or do you have a troll coven today?

                      Not ... this is usually with you - the standard three - "Ingvar", stasik and "Svarog" laughing

                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      on my work we have already talked

                      Well, then we are with you ... but others and others did not hear about the details of your heroic work with your hands and ears ... how was it, with Krylov?

                      Sing, light, do not be ashamed ...

                      Well, somewhere like that yes
              2. 0389db
                0389db 3 October 2019 07: 57
                +1
                I completely agree, a good welder gets more than ordinary engineers in the same organization.
                And by the way, to become a good welder of vocational schools is not enough, you need a minimum technical school, and preferably a university.
                1. karabass
                  karabass 3 October 2019 14: 59
                  0
                  Hands need gold, college technical school and e-mail academy. the welder is useless. I know exactly for 20 years
            2. Victor N
              Victor N 1 October 2019 12: 10
              +3
              Everything that you called is secondary. The main thing is that there is no demand for the corresponding workforce.
              And why not?
              Because there are no entrepreneurs capable of manufacturing. This, in turn, is a consequence of phobias living in society: hated capitalists, entrepreneurs, businessmen, managers — spit, trample, shoot! The oligarchs are tattered .....
              So we have that we have nothing: there is no one to lead to labor exploits.
              But everyone knows that flocks of sheep lead along with them - even among people this is considered an insult.
            3. Vend
              Vend 2 October 2019 09: 47
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Quote: Wend
              They want to get a lot and work a little

              So the sample is not very bothered, but a lot of earning freeloader is promoted by almost all the media. What did you want as a result? Managers rule.
              In addition to the fact that working professions are unpopular now, they are also poorly paid.
              The result - there is no vocational school, the popularity is the same, the high salary is the same. Here it is, the reason.

              I don’t watch TV, so I can’t say anything here. But about the managers you are in vain. This is a very difficult job, it takes a lot of time and effort.
      3. 210ox
        210ox 30 September 2019 16: 45
        +5
        Anatoly, I agree with you .. And where will these "graduates" go?
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 September 2019 17: 22
          -6
          Quote: 210ox
          Anatoly, I agree with you .. And where will these "graduates" go?

          The completely brainless will climb the "barricades" in order to earn extra money from Western emissaries and arrange a revolution and enrich themselves through robbery. Those who are in order with their heads in hairdressing courses or somewhere else. But everyone will scold the government, not realizing that they themselves are primarily to blame. Blaming education or power for your own failures is the easiest way.
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 30 September 2019 17: 44
            0
            The government is not to blame
          2. 210ox
            210ox 30 September 2019 18: 36
            +9
            And what are they to blame? Is the school turned into a lecture hall? Is it because their parents don’t have money for tutors for training, not even at a university, but simply for good grades in a quarter? No, of course there are lazy people, they have always been enough.
            1. Constructor68
              Constructor68 1 October 2019 04: 41
              +3
              And what are they to blame? Is the school turned into a lecture hall? The fact that their parents do not have money for tutors for training not even at the university ///
              The child will do it if he wants. And if stupid and lazy - no tutors will help
    4. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 16: 30
      +7
      Quote: Greg Miller
      The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

      As in religion, illiterates are easier to manage. request
      1. ZAV69
        ZAV69 1 October 2019 07: 58
        +6
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        As in religion, illiterates are easier to manage.

        Listen, it’s not funny anymore. This postulate is probably 300 or 500 years old. But life does not stand still. Now everyone is completely literate, everyone has access to the Internet. It turns out that the postulate is rotten?
        It should sound like this: Fools are easier to control. And we are made fools by a school that educates a consumer who does not need to invent anything, you just need to use it. And smart, he himself is trying to find out, come up with a tool, smart wants to do something new. Something like that. It is a pity there is no time to describe everything in detail.
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 1 October 2019 11: 49
          +2
          Quote: ZAV69
          And we are made fools by a school that educates a consumer who does not need to invent anything, you just need to use it.

          First of all, the family brings up. request
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 1 October 2019 12: 35
            +4
            Quote: Tank Hard
            First of all, the family brings up

            Zema, right now, this is not true! All around me to blame wink
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 1 October 2019 13: 08
              +2
              Quote: Serg65
              Zema, right now, this is not true! All around me to blame

              Right! And how did I forget! hi
            2. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 1 October 2019 18: 59
              -4
              Quote: Serg65
              All around me to blame

              Sergey - do you seriously think that the school system has not degraded since the days of the Union? belay
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 2 October 2019 09: 08
                +7
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Sergey - do you seriously consider

                You know, my dear Igor, in my school years, if I received a troika, not even a deuce, but a triple, it would be better not to fall into my dad’s eyes, although retribution was inevitable! I had a kid elder for the first mobile 3 months on the packaging, and when I started to get smart in the 10th, like why should I live and so, put it all summer long as a loader at the factory and a month later the guy realized that it’s much more pleasant to work with your head than with your hands ... 11 finished with three fours the remaining fives .....
                That's the whole education system !!!!!
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 2 October 2019 15: 25
                  -5
                  Sergey, I’m not asking how you raise your son. wink
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 3 October 2019 08: 25
                    +4
                    Igor, you got into a conversation about that ..
                    Quote: Tank Hard
                    First of all, the family brings up.

                    And my answer was in that vein
                    And about education collapsed or not collapsed, you are the clearest example of this .. having a higher economic education, where do you work?
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 3 October 2019 08: 45
                      -4
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Igor, you got into a conversation about that ..

                      So the forum seems to be open, right? wink
                      Sergey, although you are my opponent, we communicate more or less respectfully, without rudeness. So let’s continue this way, without going over to personalities, in the style of the brightest examples. My tower is economic, studying went in a fashion stream, then everyone went studying for lawyers and economists. But in reality, such an amount is simply not necessary. Now I understand the mistake of my then choice. Now this trend has subsided, but is still present.
                      But again you did not answer my direct question - do you think the quality of school education has degraded since the days of the Union? wink A direct question implies a direct answer. hi
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 3 October 2019 09: 28
                        +5
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        So the forum seems to be open, right?

                        Igor, I see you did not understand me correctly, or I did not write correctly. The conversation was about the role of the family in the upbringing and education of the child, I am in this vein and answered you, if you took this for rudeness, then excuse me!
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        studying went in a fashion stream

                        I wanted to become a military sailor from the school desk, I finished school with a passing ball of 4,8, but when I arrived in St. Petersburg I was horrified to realize that a full three-year-old against the background of the same age students from St. Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Minsk ... it was the 82nd year. Why is that? After all, Soviet education was declared as the same for everyone! It turned out that no, education in the centers and education in the periphery are two big differences!
                        Now with regards to modern education, I will not argue, I, as an old pre-pensioner, also do not like it .... in my youth it was different laughing
                        But Igor, let's see what exactly you and I are not comfortable with in this matter?
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 3 October 2019 09: 41
                        -2
                        The role of the family in raising a child is, of course, the MOST important one, and I do not deny it. But if earlier the school supplemented the family in the educational process, now it even contradicts in places. Regarding rudeness, I have already "grown" a quirk over the past few days, go over my comments for three days, not all opponents have been removed there yet (and I'm not Kisa, I'm not accustomed to knocking). Nobody wants to communicate with facts, everyone is interested in my personality. And in answering, I managed to catch him for rudeness. At the same time, there was no rudeness on my part.
                        Quote: Serg65
                        Now with regards to modern education, I will not argue, I, as an old pre-pensioner, do not like it either ...

                        This is an honest, direct answer. To analyze the essence of everything that it doesn’t suit us both for too long, and I think, if you do not cheat, then the answers will converge.
                        Let me ask the following poll - who is guilty of the fact that the quality of education has fallen significantly, and the educational component has disappeared altogether?
                      3. Serg65
                        Serg65 3 October 2019 10: 54
                        +5
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        who is guilty that the quality of education has fallen significantly

                        Everyone is to blame ... and the government, and the Ministry of Education and teachers and society and parents!
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        did the educational component disappear altogether?

                        What do you mean by that?
                      4. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 04
                        +4
                        great, experienced hi I’ll fit too !! lol the upbringing component is what the school is no longer trying to educate, and high school students are already rude to the teachers openly, they just don’t fight ... In our time this was impossible, no, the marginals were, of course, but they knew how and they could put it in place, you and I discussed my school 17, when we opened it, they gathered classes from all over the city for filling, sent all the hooligans, the school principal had a list on the table: more than a hundred people were registered with children, com, police , and already with a criminal record! BUT!!! order in the school was, in the current situation, I'm afraid such a school would quickly become a breeding ground
                      5. Serg65
                        Serg65 3 October 2019 12: 12
                        +4
                        smile Healthy, you are my scientific hi
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        the educational component is what the school is no longer trying to educate,

                        Tell me about Romka, how can a teacher bring up now? How can he influence a student?
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        We discussed with you my school 17

                        You and I haven’t discussed my multinational school yet! wink In my opinion, at the end of the 80s, the head teacher was beaten by senior pupils of Turkish nationality, lying in a hospital for three months with a concussion.
                      6. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 13
                        +3
                        How can he influence a student?

                        and how could they ?? But you could ...
                      7. Serg65
                        Serg65 3 October 2019 12: 18
                        +4
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        and how could they ?? But you could ...

                        They could! They could scream, they could expose from the class, they could also jib with a pointer, and right now try to do it? Mommy will be dragged through the courts right away! Could have acted through parents, only now many parents have withdrawn from education ... we passed your child to school, so you bring up ... and we have no time, we work! Even worse, if the school is paid ... here it’s actually zvizdets!
                        Well and how to influence?
                      8. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 19
                        +1
                        introduce corporal punishment legally?
                      9. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 36
                        +7
                        And you remember what VS Vysotsky said about this in the film "How Tsar Peter Got Married"
                      10. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 36
                        +2
                        long ago I do not remember nichrome
                      11. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 51
                        +6
                        An excerpt where his boys launch boats in a tub, then they begin to indulge, and he with their rods, but with an explanation of the reasons.
                      12. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 52
                        +3
                        well, if we recall Gorky, then on Saturdays they fought at all for what it was and what wasn’t - such a tradition
                      13. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 56
                        +7
                        Good tradition and useful. Through her, many bright minds grew. good
                      14. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 13: 35
                        +3
                        and parents respected !!!
                      15. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 14: 27
                        +6
                        So we respect them now, even though we have become parents ourselves.
                      16. Serg65
                        Serg65 3 October 2019 14: 58
                        +3
                        Romych, it’s not strange I’ll get into philosophy lol
                        From the height of my years, only now I understand that in Soviet school education until the beginning of the 80s, the old-regime tsarist view of this problem prevailed, expressed in respect for the teacher as well as for the elders in particular. All this began to change in the year 85 ..... although not ... more likely in the mid-70s with the appearance of the term "limiter" and with the beginning of the change of patriarchy to matriarchy. Society began to change, the views on the family structure changed. By the end of the 80s, the collapse of old values ​​began, and young people stopped appreciating the wisdom of old people. 90s, not only the state collapsed, but also all "common human" thinking, there was no time for education, this education was spun as you like and to please anyone. Fat zeroes came and then the former "beggars" imagined themselves to be almost millionaires, here you have a rest abroad, and an apartment in any area and a few cars and a child in any school and so that he leaves this school as a child prodigy ... but what, I I'm crying for money! Fat years are over and thinking is left and you try right now to introduce corporal punishment ..... an example of how teachers are driven to suicide can easily be found on the Internet!
                        hi
                      17. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 15: 00
                        +2
                        oh, these 90s .. a mess on the roads, in my opinion, also from there!
                      18. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 15
                        +7
                        My regards hi Roma, so your father was tearing you with a belt, go. So you grew so smart. lol Now, children can sue both teachers and parents for violence and non-pedagogical methods. In my understanding, this is not right. IMHO, of course.
                      19. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 17
                        +4
                        Serge hi somewhere, yes, but there were students, from whom parents had already disowned, what kind of flogging there ... but at school they kept themselves within
                      20. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 21
                        +8
                        So teachers and other students were involved in the upbringing process. The asset is pioneer and Komsomol. Now who?
                      21. novel66
                        novel66 3 October 2019 12: 22
                        +4
                        yes these marginals spit on both the pioneers and the Komsomol, something else kept them
                      22. Leopold
                        Leopold 3 October 2019 12: 24
                        +8
                        It kept them all in the compartment, and that also played a role.
                      23. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 3 October 2019 12: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: novel xnumx
                        this is something that the school is no longer trying to educate,

                        About what I wanted to voice. hi
          2. edelweiss968
            edelweiss968 4 October 2019 00: 24
            +1
            the school teaches, educates - family, street and public organizations.
    5. WIKI
      WIKI 30 September 2019 16: 31
      -2
      Quote: Greg Miller
      Lower educational level
      According to the author, we are not at such a low level.
      The national Education project is designed to raise the level of education in Russia in the world ranking from 14th place to at least 10
      Although the UN believes that our level of education (Education Index) corresponds to 32nd place. Again they try to convince us of what is not really.

      Source: https://basetop.ru/reyting-samyih-obrazovannyih-stran-mira/
    6. Sunstorm
      Sunstorm 30 September 2019 17: 31
      0
      this is a mistake) for example, I know people with a very high level of education who fully support the country's leadership) apparently your maxim is false)
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 19: 32
        +7
        Quote: Sunstorm
        for example, I know people with a very high level of education who fully support the leadership of the country)

        Are the guys in the subject and are members of EP? Or get contracts from the state? Discover the professions of your friends and the scope of their activities. Naturally without names and company names.
        1. Sunstorm
          Sunstorm 3 October 2019 19: 41
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Are the guys in the subject and are members of EP? Or get contracts from the state? Discover the professions of your friends and the scope of their activities. Naturally without names and company names.
          No, they are not. For example, one convinced "Yablokovets" Serviceman (if anything) 2 higher educations (red diplomas of the Soviet type .. I need to check with him? ... Both are highly educated people. What else can I tell you about them addresses, passwords and appearances? Why do you need this? Will you go check my words? Or cyberbullying them?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 3 October 2019 20: 21
            -2
            Quote: Sunstorm
            For example, one convinced "Yablokovets"

            Quote: Sunstorm
            The second "Communist" is also 2 higher,

            Smiled. As far as I remember, neither the "apple", much less the communists support the United Russia policy. Yabloko is generally a hotbed of liberals.
            And I do not need appearances with surnames, I immediately wrote about this to you. So don’t jerk.
            1. Sunstorm
              Sunstorm 4 October 2019 19: 24
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Smiled. As far as I remember, neither the "apple", much less the communists support the United Russia policy. Yabloko is generally a hotbed of liberals.
              And I do not need appearances with surnames, I immediately wrote about this to you. So don’t jerk.

              AND? I wrote somewhere that they are members of the EP? To the optometrist.
              I wrote somewhere about the politics of the EP? Or For you, the country's leadership = EP? I did not write this. This is purely your opinion.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 5 October 2019 06: 25
                0
                EP = leadership of the country. You do not watch TV? The head of government is the chairman of EP. wink
                1. Sunstorm
                  Sunstorm 5 October 2019 16: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  EP = leadership of the country. You do not watch TV? Head of Government is Chairman of EP

                  This is starting to look extremely strange, I understand you "Victim of TV" it remains to clarify in which country and what TV do you watch?
                  And yes, for some reason, I considered the President of the country ... "I am stupid in general."
                  And a very strange question, do you know that your "chairman" is a member of the Komsomol since 1979?
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 6 October 2019 22: 36
                    0
                    Quote: Sunstorm
                    And yes, for some reason I considered the head of the country the President

                    It was not a chapter, but a country's leadership. Do not wig to the side. wink
                    Quote: Sunstorm
                    And a very strange question, do you know that your "chairman" is a member of the Komsomol since 1979?

                    But Putin is a member of the CPSU, and did not leave the party. But what does the former party affiliation of the prime minister and president have to do with it? belay Are we talking about the present tense? wink
                    1. Sunstorm
                      Sunstorm 7 October 2019 16: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Quote: Sunstorm
                      And yes, for some reason I considered the head of the country the President

                      It was not a chapter, but a country's leadership. Do not wig to the side. wink
                      Quote: Sunstorm
                      And a very strange question, do you know that your "chairman" is a member of the Komsomol since 1979?

                      But Putin is a member of the CPSU, and did not leave the party. But what does the former party affiliation of the prime minister and president have to do with it? belay Are we talking about the present tense? wink

                      1) at what point did the head of the country cease to be considered its leadership? Isn't it time for you to have your own Wikipedia page (I recommend starting with Ukrainian)
                      2)
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      EP = leadership of the country. You do not watch TV? The head of government is the chairman of EP.

                      At the same time, 1 in the Communist Party of the second in Vlksm .. as they say ....
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Are the guys in the subject and are members of EP?
                      as you can see, you can be both a member of EP and CPSU .. or Vlksm.Why the former if the person did not come out? (In general, you yourself started a conversation about the parties yourself and finish it)
                      3) That's right, I immediately told you about the present tense
                      Quote: Sunstorm
                      that is a fallacy) for example, I know people with a very high level of education who fully support the country's leadership) apparently your maxim is false)

                      AND? You don’t give a damn about the level of education, you went into open heresy
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Smiled. As far as I remember, neither the "apple", much less the communists support the United Russia policy. Yabloko is generally a hotbed of liberals.

                      You probably assumed that "Yabloko" cannot support Putin .. and "communist" .. because he apparently has 100% party solidarity ... what nonsense? Maybe as much as she can.
                      4) And it’s enough to run up and carry nonsense that the country's leadership is EP and Medvedev, for 90% of the population (well, I lied, I took the figure from the bulldozer) is Putin who is not a member of any EP, C'mon, even here almost everyone is sure that Putin can, at his will, change the government and all officials with a wave of a finger.
    7. at84432384
      at84432384 30 September 2019 20: 41
      +1
      Gref, a year ago at the SPIEF, so publicly stated that the more literate the population, the more difficult it is to manipulate it. And from this he concluded: education should be reduced. This year, he called for the abolition of exams. All one to one. And Gref is not a simple guy - what he says is what the Russian authorities are doing.
    8. Serg65
      Serg65 1 October 2019 12: 21
      +2
      Quote: Greg Miller
      The lower the level of education of the population, the higher the level of support by this population for the actions of the country's leadership!

      what Those. 80% of the population are stupid and uneducated people?
      1. Sunstorm
        Sunstorm 3 October 2019 19: 43
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        Those. 80% of the population are stupid and uneducated people?

        Based on this logic, revolutions in poorly educated countries are Impossible =) And here we recall the 14% and RI, so beloved by "some" ... And the French Revolution and the English Revolution in general is probably better not to mention ..
  2. Svarog
    Svarog 30 September 2019 15: 14
    +16
    From the material it may seem that everything is simply brilliant in the formation of our state. This, of course, is not so. There are enough problems, and many of them simply will not be able to solve the national project “Education”, even if its financial support is multiplied

    Are there enough problems? Yes, the nerves are not enough. Secondary school now is a test of homework and that’s all. My child constantly comes from school and he has to explain and chew everything that they went through today, because the teacher doesn’t do it. And it is from high school that education begins, if the teacher can entice the child, then the child will study accordingly .. And if you look at those who form the textbooks ... there’s a nightmare in general .. Each school has different textbooks and the authors of these textbooks are created there whatever they want, even history and that is presented differently .. What did not suit Soviet education, I still cannot get a clear answer to this question ..
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 30 September 2019 15: 27
      -26
      Graduates of the Soviet school did not solve the problem of total technical lag behind countries with "bad" education.
      Not only that. Those who destroyed the USSR are also graduates of the Soviet school.
      It is about this that the author writes.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 September 2019 15: 36
        +17
        Quote: Mestny
        Graduates of the Soviet school did not solve the problem of total technical lag behind countries with "bad" education.

        USSR if that the second economy in the world was and technicians in the USSR were very strong .. otherwise we would not have such achievements in the military-industrial complex ..
        Quote: Mestny
        Not only that. Those who destroyed the USSR are also graduates of the Soviet school.

        Traitors can have several higher educations, but this does not say that education is bad, it is human vices that are not connected with intelligence, well, or almost not connected ..
        In general, secondary education now, as in the USSR with SRM ..
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 30 September 2019 16: 17
          +10
          one smart person told me that. not every educated person is smart. and not every smart educated.
        2. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 16: 19
          -23
          The USSR was the second economy. By shaft and production of non-competitive products. Which could only be exported to satellites and to underdeveloped countries.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 30 September 2019 16: 26
            +12
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            SSR was the second economy. By shaft and production of non-competitive products. Which could be exported only to satellites and to underdeveloped countries.

            Firstly, the products of the USSR were very competitive .. Another question, the "wrapper" was not as shiny as that of the Europeans .. Secondly, what now prevents to sell to underdeveloped countries? Maybe the fact that we are already one of the most underdeveloped countries?
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 32
              -16
              However, the USSR itself bought over the hill and tractor equipment (Magirus, Komatsu) and marine diesel engines and much more. The Union did not sell to underdeveloped countries, but "sold". Either for bad loans, or for raw materials or food (sugar for equipment, cars and aircraft for Cuba) Exports to developed countries were small, with the exception of raw materials and low-value products.
              1. Kronos
                Kronos 30 September 2019 17: 46
                +11
                Frank lies Soviet equipment bought abroad
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 18: 30
                  -15
                  They bought it. Voluntarily forced. Developing countries and countries of the social camp. And they will not take it - turn off the gas.
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 30 September 2019 18: 36
                    +7
                    No Soviet cars, for example, were bought not by socialist countries or TVs
                    1. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 18: 57
                      -9
                      Soviet cars were sold to the West at dumping prices. And they were not in great demand, exotic a'la russ, nothing more.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 19: 35
                        0
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        sold to the West at dumping prices

                        I agree here, but this was the place to be only at sunset Union.
                      2. Vikxnumx
                        Vikxnumx 1 October 2019 10: 22
                        +2
                        Do you know the cost of a car?
                        In the 80s, the cost of a car was - 1 rub / 1 kg of weight.
                        Passenger Frets were sold over the hill:
                        1078 foreign exchange rubles - Sweden, ..
                        ...
                        4500 - Afghanistan, Algeria, ...
            2. Tank hard
              Tank hard 1 October 2019 11: 54
              +1
              Quote: Svarog
              Firstly, the products of the USSR were very competitive

              Developed countries always need oil, gas and other resources. feel
          2. Glory1974
            Glory1974 30 September 2019 19: 57
            +10
            The USSR was the second economy. By shaft and production of non-competitive products.

            Until now, Americans fly into space on Soviet engines. Such is the uncompetitive product. Also built nuclear power plants around the world. Also, probably uncompetitive shit.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 30 September 2019 16: 48
        +10
        What "total" lagging behind are you talking about ?! The level was the highest, both for graduates and for Soviet science. Another thing is the ineffective use of these resources.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 32
          -13
          Who then charged water in front of the TV?
          1. 210ox
            210ox 30 September 2019 18: 40
            +13
            Personally, I did not neigh. And there are enough fools and those who use their stupidity at all times in all countries. Scientologists and Aum Senrique immediately come to mind (by the way, from highly technological countries)
      3. Tank hard
        Tank hard 1 October 2019 11: 57
        +1
        Quote: Mestny
        Those who destroyed the USSR are also graduates of the Soviet school.

        That is, that is, however, like the current leadership of the country ... feel
    2. vvvjak
      vvvjak 30 September 2019 15: 39
      +7
      Quote: Svarog
      Are there enough problems?

      And where they are lacking. But the education system in the Russian Federation is progressing. I will give an example from life (so as not to be unfounded). My son graduated from secondary school in Belarus this year. So back in February, teachers from Samara State University arrived (and this is 1500 km by the way) and conducted internal exams, according to the results of which 7 people from their son's class were admitted to the university, when no one had passed either the CT or the Unified State Exam. True, none of them went to Samara (after all, 40 hours by train). But I really liked the agility of the "brain hunters", and it is psychologically more comfortable to hand over the CT when there is already something behind.
      Py. Sy. 4 (out of those 7) study at MIPT
      1. The popuas
        The popuas 30 September 2019 16: 08
        +11
        This is not progress, but a regression when students go from Samara to Belarus! request there were no students in Samara !? bully
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 30 September 2019 16: 21
          +1
          Quote: Popuas
          there were no students in Samara !?

          Well, yes, you have to sit on the "opera" exactly and wait for the weather from the sea (the students will not go anywhere). Only then why be surprised that the rockets fall. And let the Belarusians go to study in Poland (for some reason they do not disdain, just come on).
      2. Greg Miller
        Greg Miller 30 September 2019 16: 22
        +9
        In Belarus, today, the level of education is an order of magnitude higher than in Russia. But this is not because it is growing in Belarus, but because, unfortunately, it is falling more rapidly in Russia than in Belarus, where it is also declining ...
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 1 October 2019 11: 59
          0
          Quote: Greg Miller
          In Belarus, today, the level of education is an order of magnitude higher than in Russia.

          Where does such a conclusion come from, share a reference?
          1. Greg Miller
            Greg Miller 1 October 2019 14: 11
            0
            Yes, from there, that my children study in Belarus, and my nephews in Smolensk ... There is a difference ... the difference, unfortunately, is very significant and not in favor of Smolensk ...
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 1 October 2019 15: 41
              -1
              Quote: Greg Miller
              Yes, from there, that my children study in Belarus, and my nephews in Smolensk ... There is a difference ... the difference, unfortunately, is very significant and not in favor of Smolensk ...

              Those. Is this a purely personal opinion? Clear...
              1. Greg Miller
                Greg Miller 1 October 2019 19: 02
                0
                Quote: Tank Hard
                Quote: Greg Miller
                Yes, from there, that my children study in Belarus, and my nephews in Smolensk ... There is a difference ... the difference, unfortunately, is very significant and not in favor of Smolensk ...

                Those. Is this a purely personal opinion? Clear...

                As one of the ancients said: "In this world there is nothing better and more accurate than your experience!"
    3. let_nab
      let_nab 30 September 2019 16: 06
      +12
      But because they taught to think, not to put pots on their heads, as they do now. Children dreamed of high, and now consumers, as Kudrin and Gref wanted ...
    4. Sunstorm
      Sunstorm 30 September 2019 17: 40
      -11
      Lies, lies and juggling ... education begins with elementary school and not with secondary (false 1).
      Is high school a test of homework? (false 2) Is the teacher galloping across Europe? or maybe the child deigned to roam or catch flies? Although there can be no such thing .. the Ministry of Education and Teacher are to blame, not the son .... (false 3). The textbooks are again a sketch on the fan .. would you kindly clarify the textbooks of which class and subject? (otherwise false 4) In each school they study according to different textbooks (Lie 5)
      In general, I can answer your question "Soviet textbooks" are outdated 30 years ago, science is moving forward in many disciplines ... although where could this be ... in the terrible kingdom of hopelessness and morodor ....
    5. astepanov
      astepanov 30 September 2019 17: 54
      +23
      Remember the "scientific" dogmas of Lysenko and the history of the CPSU.
      Completeness, my friend, already in the seventies they forgot about Lysenko tightly, but the history of the CPSU at school did not pass at all: there was the history of the USSR. But there was astronomy (which disappeared from the current programs), but there were no priests at the school (nor crowds of security guards, all kinds of curators and inspectors), strange things like OBZH, because life was safe: neither you HIV, nor you drugs, and Goopoty was also smaller. And creationism was not imposed (even the words did not know this).
      if the school curriculum was so wonderful, why didn’t they win the moon race with the Americans?

      And because, by the year 69 after the Great Patriotic War, only 25 years had passed. The USSR suffered terrible losses in that war, and the United States was swollen from dollars. Nevertheless, the USSR became the second economy of the world. After the collapse of the USSR, 28 years have passed, and we are also sitting in the ass, having rolled into the 13th place in the economy. Here's what you need to yell at every corner: looting and idle chatter.
      It was extremely difficult for a young engineer to realize himself in a planned economy. Salvation was work in the defense research institute, at the defense plant, as well as employment in the "general" project.
      Lies. At each plant hung a “Wanted” board. And if many have not been realized, then only by virtue of laziness, inertness and mediocrity. Not a single university produces Landau, Filatov, and Games entirely; such personnel were and will be piece goods. But on the other hand, they also did not rivet the obvious idiocy in large numbers, as now.
      This is almost 300 billion rubles. As part of this area, rural schools, as well as schools in small towns, will be updated.
      Why not upgrade it? If in 2008 there were 35900 secondary schools in the Russian Federation, now there are 27700. There are half as many rural schools, and XNUMX% city schools. So it goes - and there will be nothing to update.
      The project reveals, probably, one of the most painful problems of the modern Russian school - the depressing state of buildings and classrooms.
      No, this is not the biggest problem. But the lack of decent personnel is a problem. Low salaries; lawlessness; the dominance of "controllers"; mess with the curriculum - all this killed all the attractiveness of the profession of a teacher. The teacher in the current system of values ​​is a loser who is good for nothing and therefore is not worthy of respect. What is our competition in teacher training universities? The points for entering the “budget” in most pedagogical universities in 2019 were less than 50, in some universities - less than 40. Compare: the Faculty of Law of Moscow State University - from 87, 75 ... What else can you say? And what kind of pop - such is the arrival, and the number of computers in the office is the third thing. But does anyone here believe that the current laps after the pedagogical university will grow future Landau and Ginzburg? No, they will grow the same losers.
      Plagiarism, corruption, nepotism in a large part of the defense of candidate, doctoral dissertations and publication of articles then became the norm. This trend partially affected technical and natural science disciplines - it is still much easier to check the results of research here.
      Yes, yes, not at all. Doctorate in Technology Dmitry Rogozin - clean as a tear. True, terribly secret. But what, a real techie, journalism department and the Institute of Marxism-Leninism are behind. And his son was peeing articles with guys from Moscow State University, in chemistry, in which he had no ears, and was digging. Kaby from the "chemists" suddenly did not go over to the "aviators", then now I would have caught up with my dad by scholarship.
      One of the most important tasks of the work of the Ministry of Education (everyone remembers that now it is so, and not the Ministry of Education and Science?) Was the career guidance of the younger generation. Moreover, this must be done right now.

      Well, yes, if in the USSR there was a school that provided multifaceted training, and a system of vocational schools and technical schools, now there are a lot of specialized gymnasiums that create a headache. If the gymnasium at your side is humanitarian, and the child marks in techies, then to hell with him - you can’t run into the other end of the city. The uncles in the ministry decided everything for him. And now, it turns out, it will be even tougher.
      One way or another, this project is served by the federal projects “Success of Every Child”, “Social Elevators for Everyone”
      Social elevators? Do not make me laugh. This window dressing is for comfort. Bread places have long been painted - and they are for the children of the "elite". The child of Rogozin is one of the darkness of examples of this kind.
      For decades, the All-Russian Forum “Step into the Future” has been an excellent platform for students to hone their research skills.
      What? Research skills? This profanity, this game is now called science? Kids need to learn, and adult uncles aunt PR for them.
      Okay, I won’t continue. It's disgusting.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 1 October 2019 12: 02
        +1
        Quote: astepanov
        What is our competition in teacher training universities?

        In the 80s of the USSR, I also did not observe a special competition in pedagogical universities ... request
    6. at84432384
      at84432384 30 September 2019 20: 48
      +1
      The answer is very simple (because of its simplicity it does not even come to mind) - the authorities need an absolutely illiterate people. Read and write at the very least learned, counting to 10? All. Enough. Otherwise, you will be literate and start asking uncomfortable questions: why the former state property was appropriated by a dozen or two billionaires, why are there fools and mediocrity in the government, why posts are distributed by inheritance. There are many such "interesting" questions ...
      1. Victor N
        Victor N 1 October 2019 12: 21
        0
        Nobody Hinders anyone from learning. All life. You have to force yourself. Failed - do not blame anyone.
        Well, and power ?! Surely Putin personally has to lash asshole fools?
      2. Tank hard
        Tank hard 1 October 2019 15: 54
        0
        Quote: at84432384
        The answer is very simple (because of its simplicity it doesn’t even enter the head) -the authorities need absolutely illiterate people. I learned to read and write, you count to 10? All. Enough. And then you will be literate and you will start to ask uncomfortable questions:

        Forced to disagree with you, had to communicate with youth (in comparison with me, the end). So, their opinion was that in the army a soldier had to master a lot of material in his specialty, some had studied at universities before service, and assured that it was not easy, this also applied to the positions of ORB fighter and artilleryman, this was an ordinary squad. So I am forced to act as a lawyer for the authorities in this case, to have stupid and illiterate citizens, the country's leadership is no longer profitable in the fact that it is necessary to protect the country, and therefore the government, and for this we need trained specialists ... feel
      3. Sunstorm
        Sunstorm 3 October 2019 19: 45
        +1
        Quote: at84432384
        The answer is very simple (because of its simplicity it does not even come to mind) - the authorities need an absolutely illiterate people. Read and write at the very least learned, counting to 10? All. Enough. Otherwise, you will be literate and start asking uncomfortable questions: why the former state property was appropriated by a dozen or two billionaires, why are there fools and mediocrity in the government, why posts are distributed by inheritance. There are many such "interesting" questions ...

        Therefore, the terrible Tsarist government sought to educate the people ... Mmmm well, yes, everything is clear. The Tsars were "stupid"
    7. Loess
      Loess 1 October 2019 10: 22
      0
      Quote: Svarog
      My child constantly comes from school and he has to explain and chew everything that they went through today, because the teacher does not.

      So maybe it's not in the education system, but in a specific teacher? Or in a child? My child, for example, seeks help a couple of times a month. And he answers the offer to search for explanations on the Internet that I myself forbade him to do this. At the same time, the child's performance is frankly pleasing to me. And even the transfer to another school (in connection with the move) on academic performance was practically not affected. In the elementary grades - yes, I was studying with the child almost every day, as I am studying with another child now, but you are talking about high school.
      It is unlikely that based on the performance of one child (yours, mine or neighbor's, it doesn’t matter), we can draw conclusions about the state of the entire education system as a whole.
      PS The article was liked precisely by the lack of an emotional component when considering the issue. For example, I remember one of the articles by a local author filled with a selection of YouTube videos with panic comments. On my assumption that the author selected videos exclusively for negative then the removal of my comment and a warning from this very author followed ...
    8. region58
      region58 2 October 2019 12: 19
      +2
      Quote: Svarog
      if the teacher can captivate the child

      I don’t remember who, but one of the great and wise said:
      The student is not a vessel to be filled, but a torch to be lit
  3. Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 30 September 2019 15: 34
    +15
    I read and did not understand what the author wanted to say? Although one point in the article is clear - by 2024 they will do, introduce, implement and build a lot of things. I’ll tell you, what couldn’t be done before? And why is the year 2024, this is when Putin will leave and ask will be nonsense? Although it’s useless to ask now.
    Here are a few figures: 1990, in Russia 70000 schools and 7000 churches.
    1. let_nab
      let_nab 30 September 2019 16: 09
      -5
      And where was the loot? Or with arithmetic tight ??
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 16: 21
      -9
      How do churches relate to schools? Spiritual affairs and education do not intersect in any way.
      1. The popuas
        The popuas 30 September 2019 16: 26
        +10
        Your words yes to god in ears bully in Yekaterinburg last week, the course was to the glory of good grades, 1500 children who did not understand what was going on in the slush in the cold ... they don’t intersect request
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 16: 43
        +7
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        How do churches relate to schools?

        The spread of Abramic religions is designed primarily for the illiterate.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 03
          -6
          That is, Buddhism, shamanism and paganism for the very smart?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 30 September 2019 19: 20
            +5
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            That is, Buddhism, shamanism and paganism for the very smart?

            Partly yes. They have more logic and laws of nature.
        2. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 30 September 2019 17: 58
          +4
          Do you think that there were only illiterate people in the city committee? Now everyone in the church is standing with candles and praying.
    3. Sergei 23
      Sergei 23 30 September 2019 16: 31
      -5
      70000 schools and 7000 churches. Is this relationship somehow related to the quality of education?
  4. Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 30 September 2019 15: 34
    +14
    I read and did not understand what the author wanted to say? Although one point in the article is clear - by 2024 they will do, introduce, implement and build a lot of things. I’ll ask, what couldn’t be done before? And why is the year 2024, this is when Putin will leave and ask will be nonsense? Although it’s useless to ask now.
    Here are a few figures: 1990, in Russia 70000 schools and 7000 churches.
    2015, there are 44000 schools and 35000 churches in Russia.
    And the trend is the same: schools are closing, temples are opening.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 30 September 2019 15: 53
      +10
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      In Russia, 70000 schools and 7000 churches.
      2015, there are 44000 schools and 35000 churches in Russia.
      And the trend is the same: schools are closing, temples are opening.

      It is very correctly noticed .. Everything goes to the fact that, as in RI, everything will be -14% educated ...
      1. Anatole Klim
        Anatole Klim 30 September 2019 16: 10
        +7
        Quote: Svarog
        Everything goes to the fact that, as in RI, everything will be -14% educated ...

        And will the new Ivan Bolotnikovs, Stepans Razins and Emelyany Pugachevs appear? can there be new Decembrists? while I see only new priests Gapon!
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 16: 24
        -14
        In the Republic of Ingushetia to the First World War, the percentage of literate conscripts was 70%. Communist propaganda is also the falsifier of history.
      3. Sunstorm
        Sunstorm 30 September 2019 17: 45
        -11
        Quote: Svarog
        It is very correctly noticed .. Everything goes to the fact that, as in RI, everything will be -14% educated ...

        In illiterate RI, Lenin, Stalin, Zhukov, Korolev, Tsiolkovsky was born ... In a literate USSR - Yeltsin, Gorbachev .. Gaidar ...
        Illiterate RI did not lock up houses, people lived in large families - in the Literate USSR - thieves in law, two-room apartments and families of 1-2 children ...
        By the way, I’m always curious why supporters of atheism-communism forget about the role of theological seminaries in the formation of the idols of communism?
        1. Tavrik
          Tavrik 30 September 2019 21: 39
          +3
          And most importantly: this very people of God chosen by RI, this very people demolished nafig in the name of the USSR. Probably, after all, not everything was so wonderful in RI?
          1. Saul_Rhen
            Saul_Rhen 1 October 2019 00: 16
            +1
            This works the other way around. The beautiful God-chosen USSR, the same people demolished nafig and not particularly sorry. Probably, after all, not everything was so wonderful in the USSR?
            1. Tavrik
              Tavrik 1 October 2019 19: 55
              +3
              I do not agree about "not particularly sorry". How sorry he is. And the lost stability, security. Both medicine and education. And pride in your country. And much more "leaked" in the name of sausage and jeans.
              Only officials and individual businessmen are satisfied. Well, the monarchists, of course. Without them on the forum, as in the Duma without Zhirinovsky.
              1. Saul_Rhen
                Saul_Rhen 1 October 2019 20: 29
                -4
                Again these slogans. Look around. Most don't care about the USSR at best, even in Russia. I am silent about the republics. Local communists really do not have "pride for the country" and will never have, because you live only to spoil the country and rejoice at any failures and problems, without noticing the rest. Stability, security, education, and medicine are still here.
          2. Tank hard
            Tank hard 2 October 2019 07: 40
            +1
            Quote: Tavrik
            And most importantly: beautiful God's chosen RI this very people demolished nafig in the name of the USSR.

            This is your remark, indirectly confirms that specifically with your education, something is not right ... feel
          3. Sunstorm
            Sunstorm 3 October 2019 19: 31
            +1
            Did they talk about the miraculous? or God's chosen one? Could you give me a link to my quote?
            1. Tavrik
              Tavrik 4 October 2019 00: 03
              -1
              I will not give links. You don't mention God's chosenness directly. And indirectly - of course: both seminaries and large families, and the doors are not locked, tk. all very spiritual. Downright "God-bearing people". In 1913, large-scale all-Russian celebrations of the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty with the expression of loyal feelings, and 4 years later - two revolutions in a row. Not weird?
              1. Sunstorm
                Sunstorm 4 October 2019 19: 32
                +1
                Quote: Tavrik
                I will not give links. You don't mention God's chosenness directly. And indirectly - of course: both seminaries and large families, and the doors are not locked, tk. all very spiritual. Downright "God-bearing people". In 1913, large-scale all-Russian celebrations of the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty with the expression of loyal feelings, and 4 years later - two revolutions in a row. Not weird?

                It is strange that you attributed your thoughts to me. But I will explain to you in other words ... A revolution occurred in the Republic of Ingushetia with an average level of education of 14-17%. Consequently 1) an illiterate people can quite make a revolution (there are enough examples in history) 2) Doors and spirituality .. a funny analogy, but the bottom line is that the USSR had a level of education close to 100% (and God forbid that the United States 60%) at the same time, if we compare the standard of living of the inhabitants of the USSR and the United States .. we obviously lived worse .. (I recall living worse but were educated or ideological?) And there was no revolution ... although the stop is 90s ... than not revolution?) 3) Total education level on the revolution does not affect at all) my personal opinion)
    2. Van 16
      Van 16 30 September 2019 16: 07
      +10
      Apparently the author wanted to say that earlier, in the Soviet Union, education was worse, because of it, they lost the moon race, and the country collapsed because of the "model of Soviet education" and many did not fit into the market precisely because of it and in general .. But now, oh! we are going forward by leaps and bounds, and by the year 24 it will be ... neither in a fairy tale, nor to describe it with a pen.
    3. Valerikk
      Valerikk 30 September 2019 16: 14
      +10
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      schools close, temples open.

      Go to the Middle Ages!
      Why strain, trying to penetrate the essence of phenomena and things, when everything can be explained by the manifestation of higher powers.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 1 October 2019 10: 26
      +1
      Back to the roots!
      The clerk will soon learn to read and write ...
      laughing
  5. Proton
    Proton 30 September 2019 15: 35
    +14
    The trouble is that in the current education there is no system that was in the Soviet one, everyone teaches what and how they want, if only they would follow the program roughly. That's all the problems. And the national projects can’t fix it, that's all superficially. stop
  6. UserGun
    UserGun 30 September 2019 15: 42
    -14
    "Rather, on the ability of governing state structures to accumulate the resources of an entire country to achieve a single goal. Which we are not seeing now, fortunately or unfortunately." ...

    Aim to build communism? And what came of it? Even people live longer than this state for such a purpose. Actually, the Third Reich also set a single task and also amazed and still amazes with wunderwaves and the general level of the "ordnung", including education. Moreover, attempts now to accumulate the country's resources due to the impoverishment of the population (pension "reform") resemble the past.
  7. g1v2
    g1v2 30 September 2019 15: 54
    -9
    Soviet education perished with the country. Return to the past will not work. Returning the Soviet school is the same as calling for the return of the parish schools of Tsarist Russia. It is clear that something new needs to be built. But it’s hard to say how this new should be.
    Education is skeptical about the effectiveness of the project. I don’t see anything that would exactly give results. But this is better than standing still. Considering that competitors do not have large-scale educational projects - this will be useful in every way. request
    But resistance and problems will be the sea. And universities will have to close a lot, and their employees will be on the street. And this is a serious burden and an increase in unemployment. Anyone who taught at the university for 10 years as a turner or welders obviously will not go. And it will be difficult to find work for these educated people.
    In my opinion there is a step that could help. I believe that in any school, it is necessary to introduce the positions of educators and give them cool leadership, saving teachers from it. These educators should guide students until they graduate, starting in grades 4-5. Education, hiking, communication with parents, monitoring performance, behavior. What children do at school. Parents are constantly not up to the full upbringing of their children, even if they believe that they are raising them. In fact, teachers are not up to the classroom leadership and certainly not up to monitoring students' performance in other subjects. We need people who will focus specifically on children.
    The teacher does not have to have a pedagogical education, so in this way many former university teachers, retired officers, just people with education or experience in team management, people of pre-retirement age can be employed in schools. 54 thousand schools. 10-15 teachers per school. This will make it possible to employ 500-800 thousand people. Moreover, it will be useful jobs, and not fake type of watchmen and security guards. request
    1. yashacat
      yashacat 30 September 2019 16: 58
      0
      And there is something about it.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 30 September 2019 17: 07
      +6
      Quote: g1v2
      We need people who will focus specifically on children.

      Why reinvent the lisped? In the USSR, there was a teacher. Moreover, she followed how homework is done, well, and explained everything if something is not clear. Well, there are trips to all kinds of movie theaters, museums, to the forest and to the park.
    3. Tank hard
      Tank hard 2 October 2019 07: 55
      +2
      Quote: g1v2
      I believe that in any school, it is necessary to introduce the positions of educators and give them cool leadership, saving teachers from it.

      At the school where my son is studying, they pay extra for classroom guidance a whole one thousand rubles a month (!!!). Do not want to work for such a colossal amount of money? wink
      Here on the site, the number of commentators who have no idea about school and school work goes off scale. feel
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 3 October 2019 01: 35
        -1
        And this is money thrown to the wind, because the sense of this cool hand-va is zero. Therefore, I propose to introduce the position of educators. And let the teachers do their work - teaching their subjects.
        I don’t want to work at school yet. I have education and work. Before retiring, I can think about it. And by the way, where is your school located? Is it not by chance in Germany?
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 3 October 2019 08: 08
          +1
          Quote: g1v2
          And by the way, where is your school located? Is it not by chance in Germany?

          Accidentally on the territory of one of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation ...
          Quote: g1v2
          And let the teachers do their work - teaching their subjects.

          It is advisable that you do your own thing, maybe then it will work out ... feel
  8. TAMBU
    TAMBU 30 September 2019 16: 13
    +10
    The adherents of this idea cite the words of allegedly John Kennedy as the main transparency:
    ”Soviet education is the best in the world. We have to take a lot from it. USSR won the space race for the school desk ”
    .

    Firstly, it’s not the fact that Kennedy even said that.


    From the first paragraph, manipulation. He did not say that and no one says that he did so except liberals and pseudo-patriots. At the time of Eisenhower, the Life magazine from March 24 of 1958 published an article comparing education in the USA and the USSR with the example of two tenth graders (well, or whoever they have) and the author came to conclusions that were disappointing for the USA ...

    This is the first.

    And the second - today there are a lot of videos on YouTube where passers-by are asked basic questions to which schoolchildren of the USSR answered with surprise at their primitiveness, and the modern generation of schoolchildren amuses thousands of network users with their answers ... significant ...
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 16: 29
      -9
      Do you think that most of the YouTube videos are staged? It is simply beneficial for someone to expose our youth in such a light.
      1. TAMBU
        TAMBU 30 September 2019 17: 30
        +5
        maybe ... but enough to talk on different topics with children 10-12 years old and it becomes not at all funny. And if you look at their literacy in a letter ... without highlighting and prompting programs, it becomes even sadder ... not to mention history and geography ... but maybe I came across such people, I don’t exclude ...
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 40
          -11
          Here I communicate with the young. 25-30 years old. Nimble, competent, business. Literacy yes, it suffers, but I, for example, do not know how to count on accounts and use an arithmometer
          also. And I can’t harness the horse - our car is everything. Handwriting is a thing of the past, like goose feathers. Now a computer with a spellchecker or voice dialing. Then it will become obsolete - other ways will appear to express your thoughts. Progress is called.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 30 September 2019 16: 53
      +5
      Quote: TAMBU
      From the first paragraph, manipulation. He did not say that and no one says that he did so except liberals and pseudo-patriots. At the time of Eisenhower, the Life magazine from March 24 of 1958 published an article comparing education in the USA and the USSR with the example of two tenth graders (well, or whoever they have) and the author came to conclusions that were disappointing for the USA ...

      As T. Wolfe wrote (as far as I remember recourse ), author of the book "Battle for Space", about the increase in education costs, Congress began to yell after the launch of the first satellite we launched. In general, he wrote a lot about education. And if you watch their films about schools, you begin to believe that education there is really stupid. A former military man gets a job as a geography teacher and from the very first day he says so importantly: "I will tell you about Vietnam!" And besides Vietnam, he seemed to know nothing more. laughing
  9. Honest Citizen
    Honest Citizen 30 September 2019 16: 19
    +5
    And thirdly, if the school curriculum was so wonderful, why didn’t they win the moon race with the Americans?

    Then answer this question: why after 1969 NOBODY could no longer land on the moon? Were the Americans there? And why then NASA now can not repeat the success of 50 years ago?
    In short, the author is completely off topic.
    Do not write anymore.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 24
      -10
      The Americans were there. If this were not so, then the Soviet propaganda machine would have arranged a non-illusory schukher for the whole world. Missing such an excuse to poke your shit at a potential adversary’s shit is fantastic.
      1. Honest Citizen
        Honest Citizen 30 September 2019 17: 42
        +8
        If this were not so, then the Soviet propaganda machine would have arranged a non-illusory schukher for the whole world.

        So, it was a banal deal. The USA allowed the Federal Republic of Germany to buy gas from us, and the USSR was in dire need of currency, and was ready to sell gas, while the USSR, in turn, admits that the USA was on the moon.
        Do you remember the construction of the Druzhba and Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipelines? Just about ... Legs grow from there.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 September 2019 17: 50
          -5
          and the USSR, in turn, recognizes that the United States was on the moon.


          V.ROMENSKIY: Well, why else do you believe that it was the Americans who were really on the moon, landed?

          G. GRECHKO: No, I do not believe, I know. Because we competed with them. And we followed each other very much, how engines are tested, like electronics, which flights are test, intermediate and so on. We watched very zealously and saw what enormous work was being done. And as a result of this work, it was easier for them to fly to the moon than to imitate.
          1. Nitochkin
            Nitochkin 30 September 2019 18: 36
            +3
            Quote: Arzt
            and the USSR, in turn, recognizes that the United States was on the moon.


            V.ROMENSKIY: Well, why else do you believe that it was the Americans who were really on the moon, landed?

            G. GRECHKO: No, I do not believe, I know. Because we competed with them. And we followed each other very much, how engines are tested, like electronics, which flights are test, intermediate and so on. We watched very zealously and saw what enormous work was being done. And as a result of this work, it was easier for them to fly to the moon than to imitate.


            It was necessary to ask Grechko how the Americans went through the van allen belt. Did diapers provide protection for them? Especially on the way back, after a week, there was 100% protection.
            Buckwheat faith is not worth a penny. A muddy type, like Gorbachev.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 30 September 2019 18: 52
              -2
              Buckwheat faith is not worth a penny. A muddy type, like Gorbachev.

              And what about Leonov?

              So were or weren't the Americans on the moon?

              “Only absolutely ignorant people can seriously believe that the Americans have not been on the moon. And, unfortunately, this whole ridiculous epic about frames allegedly fabricated in Hollywood began with the Americans themselves. By the way, the first person who began to spread these rumors, he was imprisoned for libel, "Alexei Leonov noted in this regard.

              Where did the rumors come from?

              "It all began when, at the celebration of the 80th birthday of the famous American film director Stanley Kubrick, who created his brilliant film" The Odyssey of 2001 "based on the book of science fiction writer Arthur Clarke, the journalists who met with Kubrick's wife asked to talk about her husband's work on the film in And she honestly said that there are only two real lunar modules on Earth - one is in a museum, where no filming has ever been conducted, and it is even forbidden to walk with a camera, and the other is in Hollywood, where, to develop the logic of what is happening on the screen and additional filming of the American landing on the moon was carried out, "the Soviet cosmonaut said.

              Why was studio photography used?

              Alexei Leonov explained that in order for the viewer to be able to see the development of what is happening from beginning to end on the movie screen, elements of filming are used in any movie.
              "It was impossible, for example, to film the real opening by Neil Armstrong of the hatch of the descent ship on the Moon - there was simply no one to remove it from the surface! For the same reason, it was impossible to film the descent of Armstrong to the Moon along the ladder from the ship. These are the moments that were really taken Kubrick in Hollywood studios to develop the logic of what was happening, and laid the foundation for numerous gossip that the entire landing was allegedly simulated on the set, "explained Alexey Leonov.

              Where the truth begins and the installation ends

              "The real filming began when Armstrong, who first set foot on the moon, got used to it a little, installed a highly directional antenna through which the transmission to Earth was carried out. His partner Buzz Aldrin then also came out of the ship to the surface and began to shoot Armstrong, who in turn filmed its movement on the lunar surface ", - the astronaut specified.
              1. Nitochkin
                Nitochkin 30 September 2019 19: 22
                +1
                Quote: Arzt
                Buckwheat faith is not worth a penny. A muddy type, like Gorbachev.

                And what about Leonov?

                So were or weren't the Americans on the moon?

                “Only absolutely ignorant people can seriously believe that the Americans have not been on the moon. And, unfortunately, this whole ridiculous epic about frames allegedly fabricated in Hollywood began with the Americans themselves. By the way, the first person who began to spread these rumors, he was imprisoned for libel, "Alexei Leonov noted in this regard.

                Where did the rumors come from?

                "It all began when, at the celebration of the 80th birthday of the famous American film director Stanley Kubrick, who created his brilliant film" The Odyssey of 2001 "based on the book of science fiction writer Arthur Clarke, the journalists who met with Kubrick's wife asked to talk about her husband's work on the film in And she honestly said that there are only two real lunar modules on Earth - one is in a museum, where no filming has ever been conducted, and it is even forbidden to walk with a camera, and the other is in Hollywood, where, to develop the logic of what is happening on the screen and additional filming of the American landing on the moon was carried out, "the Soviet cosmonaut said.

                Why was studio photography used?

                Alexei Leonov explained that in order for the viewer to be able to see the development of what is happening from beginning to end on the movie screen, elements of filming are used in any movie.
                "It was impossible, for example, to film the real opening by Neil Armstrong of the hatch of the descent ship on the Moon - there was simply no one to remove it from the surface! For the same reason, it was impossible to film the descent of Armstrong to the Moon along the ladder from the ship. These are the moments that were really taken Kubrick in Hollywood studios to develop the logic of what was happening, and laid the foundation for numerous gossip that the entire landing was allegedly simulated on the set, "explained Alexey Leonov.

                Where the truth begins and the installation ends

                "The real filming began when Armstrong, who first set foot on the moon, got used to it a little, installed a highly directional antenna through which the transmission to Earth was carried out. His partner Buzz Aldrin then also came out of the ship to the surface and began to shoot Armstrong, who in turn filmed its movement on the lunar surface ", - the astronaut specified.


                Or maybe we’ll ask Stanley Kubrick? No, it won’t work out? Ah, he is no longer alive. What a shame, he died. Himself dead or helped him?
                But who is Kubrick? Director, man of art, humanities, no more.
                Werner von Braun told Neil Armstrong not long before his death: "From a statistical point of view, I have very bad prospects ... but you know how deceiving statistics can be. After all this happened, I should have been in prison, and you should were to die in space ... "
                Should have perished, but not perished. How so? The answer is obvious.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 30 September 2019 19: 59
                  0
                  It was necessary to ask Grechko how the Americans went through the van allen belt. Did diapers provide protection for them?


                  Composition and characteristics of the Earth's radiation belt (Van Allen belt).

                  The radiation belt in the first approximation is a toroid in which two regions are distinguished:
                  The inner radiation belt at an altitude of about 4000 km, consisting mainly of protons (alpha particles), with an energy of about 100 MeV;
                  The outer radiation belt at an altitude of about 17 km, consisting mainly of electrons (beta particles) with an energy of about 000 keV.

                  The Apollo cabins were protected by an aluminum layer of the order of 2,0 mm.
                  The path length of alpha particles in air at an energy of 10 MeV is about 106 mm. In aluminum - 69 microns. As mentioned above, the energy of alpha particles in the inner Van Allen belt is 100 MeV, i.e., the path of a particle in aluminum will be only 690 microns - less than one millimeter,
                  A layer of aluminum of only 3 mm completely absorbs a stream of beta particles with energies of tens of times, of the order of 2,5 MeV, exceeding those (10 KeV) that are in the Van Allen belts.

                  The main contribution to the irradiation of astronauts was made by solar particles when they were outside the Earth's magnetic field. The total absorbed dose received by astronauts varied from flight to flight and ranged from 0,16 to 1,14 rad (1,6 to 11,4 mGy), which is much less than the standard dose of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year. established by the US Atomic Energy Commission for persons working with radiation.


                  Should have perished, but not perished. How so? The answer is obvious.

                  Ha ha ha, here they are problems with education, on the face. Okay, logic suffers, but physics had to be taught. Although humanity is excusable.
                  1. Nitochkin
                    Nitochkin 30 September 2019 20: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Arzt
                    It was necessary to ask Grechko how the Americans went through the van allen belt. Did diapers provide protection for them?


                    Composition and characteristics of the Earth's radiation belt (Van Allen belt).

                    The radiation belt in the first approximation is a toroid in which two regions are distinguished:
                    The inner radiation belt at an altitude of about 4000 km, consisting mainly of protons (alpha particles), with an energy of about 100 MeV;
                    The outer radiation belt at an altitude of about 17 km, consisting mainly of electrons (beta particles) with an energy of about 000 keV.

                    The Apollo cabins were protected by an aluminum layer of the order of 2,0 mm.
                    The path length of alpha particles in air at an energy of 10 MeV is about 106 mm. In aluminum - 69 microns. As mentioned above, the energy of alpha particles in the inner Van Allen belt is 100 MeV, i.e., the path of a particle in aluminum will be only 690 microns - less than one millimeter,
                    A layer of aluminum of only 3 mm completely absorbs a stream of beta particles with energies of tens of times, of the order of 2,5 MeV, exceeding those (10 KeV) that are in the Van Allen belts.

                    The main contribution to the irradiation of astronauts was made by solar particles when they were outside the Earth's magnetic field. The total absorbed dose received by astronauts varied from flight to flight and ranged from 0,16 to 1,14 rad (1,6 to 11,4 mGy), which is much less than the standard dose of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year. established by the US Atomic Energy Commission for persons working with radiation.


                    Should have perished, but not perished. How so? The answer is obvious.

                    Ha ha ha, here they are problems with education, on the face. Okay, logic suffers, but physics had to be taught. Although humanity is excusable.


                    I don’t see the link where this bullshit came from. Wikipedia go, bgg?
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 30 September 2019 21: 29
                      0
                      I don’t see the link where this bullshit came from. Wikipedia go, bgg?

                      Why didn't Wikipedia please you? This is a physical question, not a historical one, for example, where there can be many opinions. The multiplication table in WIKI corresponds to that printed on the back of school notebooks. If this is not an argument, open any textbook for universities on geophysics and particle physics, or right here - http://www.ifz.ru
                      1. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 1 October 2019 02: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I don’t see the link where this bullshit came from. Wikipedia go, bgg?

                        Why didn't Wikipedia please you? This is a physical question, not a historical one, for example, where there can be many opinions. The multiplication table in WIKI corresponds to that printed on the back of school notebooks. If this is not an argument, open any textbook for universities on geophysics and particle physics, or right here - http://www.ifz.ru

                        Wikipedia ?! Do not make me laugh. To retype the multiplication tables on the back of school notebooks is just fine.
                      2. region58
                        region58 3 October 2019 00: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I don’t see the link where this bullshit came from.

                        Quote: Arzt
                        If this is not an argument

                        You can also ask about the results of flights of our Zond-5,6 and 7 vehicles, everything is also in the public domain. This is if you are not interested in either the configuration of the radiation belts, or the energy and type of particles, or the flight trajectory, or the time of flight. Or would you say "bullshit" too?
                        PS By the way, it’s indicative ... we are talking about education ... yeah ...
                      3. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 3 October 2019 07: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I don’t see the link where this bullshit came from.

                        Quote: Arzt
                        If this is not an argument

                        You can also ask about the results of flights of our Zond-5,6 and 7 vehicles, everything is also in the public domain. This is if you are not interested in either the configuration of the radiation belts, or the energy and type of particles, or the flight trajectory, or the time of flight. Or would you say "bullshit" too?
                        PS By the way, it’s indicative ... we are talking about education ... yeah ...

                        I will not say anything, just leave two links:
                        https://photo-vlad.livejournal.com/32706.html
                        https://photo-vlad.livejournal.com/32706.html
                        Z.Y. Although you, adherents of Wikipedia, most likely will not read. But this is not for you.
                      4. region58
                        region58 3 October 2019 09: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        this is not for you.

                        That's right, live magazines are not for us. For us, it is the Institute of Physics of the Earth, which you were told about, and the data from our Zond devices, and NASA. yes
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        you, adherents of Wikipedia

                        My dear man, does it not occur to you that many here are much older and Wikipedia in particular, and in general the Internet in its current form?
                      5. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 3 October 2019 12: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        this is not for you.

                        That's right, live magazines are not for us... For us, it is the Institute of Physics of the Earth, which you were told about, and the data from our Zond devices, and NASA. yes
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        you, adherents of Wikipedia

                        My dear man, does it not occur to you that many here are much older and Wikipedia in particular, and in general the Internet in its current form?

                        Do you need checkers or go? Do you copy-paste from Wikipedia, read at least? Do you think about the meaning of what is written? It seems that no. You can’t not read what is written on Wikipedia, this is the truth in the first instance, you take and copy-paste and everyone should believe.
                        Let’s give a link where it is written on the IPZ RAS website about what is safely and safely located outside the belts in open space in the van allen belts. The link to the main page of the IPhS RAS site, suggested by your brother in mind, does not channel.
                      6. region58
                        region58 3 October 2019 18: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Are you from wikipedia

                        What are you pestering with Wikipedia? I didn’t give a word or a half word from there ... By the way, as the initial reference material Wikipedia will come down quite well.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Let’s give a link where it is written on the IPZ RAS website ...

                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Link ... ... does not channel.

                        Yes Yes. So your words are that "everyone will die" without any references "kanaut", and then you take it out and put it ... Also tell the academic council to collect, and notary to certify. lol Look and find ... but they don’t serve here.

                        PS You, for an hour, are not one of those who need to write in the instructions: "you can't dry cats in the microwave"? Otherwise, you will hardly find such prohibitions on the academy websites either ...
                        Literate consumers, th ... they are trained to read, yeah ... True, and the instructions do not read nichrome ...
                      7. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 3 October 2019 19: 07
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Are you from wikipedia

                        What are you pestering with Wikipedia? I didn’t give a word or a half word from there ... By the way, as the initial reference material Wikipedia will come down quite well.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Let’s give a link where it is written on the IPZ RAS website ...

                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Link ... ... does not channel.

                        Yes Yes. So your words are that "everyone will die" without any references "kanaut", and then you take it out and put it ... Also tell the academic council to collect, and notary to certify. lol Look and find ... but they don’t serve here.

                        PS You, for an hour, are not one of those who need to write in the instructions: "you can't dry cats in the microwave"? Otherwise, you will hardly find such prohibitions on the academy websites either ...
                        Literate consumers, th ... they are trained to read, yeah ... True, and the instructions do not read nichrome ...

                        Clear. To my two links to good material with a large amount of information and data, analysis of this information and conclusions that NASA is lying, you have nothing to answer except with the words "Institute of Earth Physics" and "NASA"? Well, the drain is counted.
                        And your flat humor, from the category he himself joked, he laughed himself, leave it to yourself.
                      8. region58
                        region58 3 October 2019 20: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        To my two links ... ... there is nothing to answer for you

                        There are only two options here: either you are "in the subject", have the appropriate level of training and education, understand all the subtleties and nuances, but then you don't need any third-party evidence, or you don't have anything of this, but then it's pointless to prove anything to you , alas.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        draining counted

                        Fi ... For such words in a decent society they beat a candelabrum ... but you can be proud ...
                      9. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 October 2019 03: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        To my two links ... ... there is nothing to answer for you

                        There are only two options here: either you are "in the subject", have the appropriate level of training and education, understand all the subtleties and nuances, but then you don't need any third-party evidence, or you don't have anything of this, but then it's pointless to prove anything to you , alas.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        draining counted

                        Fi ... For such words in a decent society they beat a candelabrum ... but you can be proud ...

                        From the two of you, I hear one verbiage and nothing specific on the topic. So the "drain validated" remains in effect.
                        In a decent society they beat a candelabra of card cheaters, scammers and verbiage.
                      10. Doctor
                        Doctor 3 October 2019 23: 54
                        0
                        Clear. To my two links to good material with a large amount of information and data, analysis of this information and conclusions that NASA is lying, you have nothing to answer except with the words "Institute of Earth Physics" and "NASA"?

                        Okay, I’ll work as a referent lightly if you are too lazy.
                        Unlike amateurish skeptical arguments that deny the Americans landing on the moon, there is a huge layer of scientifically proven information confirming this event. The volume of this information is huge, because the scale of the work carried out was enormous.

                        Let's go from the opposite, I think you will not deny that in parallel with the American lunar program was carried out by the Soviet. You can find its main points in the Wikipedia you do not like by typing "Soviet lunar program", and then check on the links, from the memoirs of the crew of the lunar detachment on a business trip to Somalia to prepare astronavigation through the stars of the Southern Hemisphere, to the lists of OKB and research institutes with quite real modern prototypes ... For example, OKB-1, which develops blocks "D" and "D", the engine for block "D", lunar orbital and lunar landing ships is now RSC Energia. In the "history" section of her official website, you can check that she really did it.
                        https://www.energia.ru

                        On the topic of our discussion - the protection of the crew from cosmic radiation was worked out by the whole NIIYaF Moscow State University D.V. Skobeltseva.
                        http://www.sinp.msu.ru/

                        An article by Yuri Logachev, an employee of this institute, on the history of the discovery of radiation belts
                        https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/434793/Radiatsionnye_poyasa_Zemli_otkrytie_i_pervye_issledovaniya
                        The head of the experiments was Hero of Socialist Labor Sergey Nikolaevich Vernov. According to the USSR State Register of Discoveries, it was he who discovered the external radiation belt.
                        http://ross-nauka.narod.ru/01/01-023.html/

                        Already Sputnik-2 with Laika on board detected a radiation belt, but the misinterpretation, secrecy, and the same aluminum that saved the American astronauts
                        “The counter was there under the aluminum casing and the shell of the device with a total thickness of ≈2–3 g / cm2, and, in theory, only protons with energies> 30–50 MeV could reach it. For solar events of low power, such protons are unlikely, and electrons of not very high energies (≤1 MeV) are also decelerated and do not reach the counter "
                        prevented fixing our priority in the name of the belt.
                        And so would Vernov’s radiation belt.

                        Only to simulate the effects of cosmic radiation on the spacecraft was specially built:
                        1. Cyclotron

                        2. Electrostatic generator

                        3. Cascade generator

                        4. Industrial x-ray machine

                        5. Linear electron accelerator


                        A page from the Institute’s website with a list of references.
                        http://lib.sinp.msu.ru/collections.cgi?type=tutorial
                        Carefully read at least a couple of books from there:
                        Akishin A.I. “Space materials science” and L.S. Novikov "Radiation effects on the materials of spacecraft."

                        This is a really solid material, study.
                      11. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 October 2019 03: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Clear. To my two links to good material with a large amount of information and data, analysis of this information and conclusions that NASA is lying, you have nothing to answer except with the words "Institute of Earth Physics" and "NASA"?

                        Okay, I’ll work as a referent lightly if you are too lazy.
                        Unlike amateurish skeptical arguments that deny the Americans landing on the moon, there is a huge layer of scientifically proven information confirming this event. The volume of this information is huge, because the scale of the work carried out was enormous.

                        Let's go from the opposite, I think you will not deny that in parallel with the American lunar program was carried out by the Soviet. You can find its main points in the Wikipedia you do not like by typing "Soviet lunar program", and then check on the links, from the memoirs of the crew of the lunar detachment on a business trip to Somalia to prepare astronavigation through the stars of the Southern Hemisphere, to the lists of OKB and research institutes with quite real modern prototypes ... For example, OKB-1, which develops blocks "D" and "D", the engine for block "D", lunar orbital and lunar landing ships is now RSC Energia. In the "history" section of her official website, you can check that she really did it.
                        https://www.energia.ru

                        On the topic of our discussion - the protection of the crew from cosmic radiation was worked out by the whole NIIYaF Moscow State University D.V. Skobeltseva.
                        http://www.sinp.msu.ru/

                        An article by Yuri Logachev, an employee of this institute, on the history of the discovery of radiation belts
                        https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/434793/Radiatsionnye_poyasa_Zemli_otkrytie_i_pervye_issledovaniya
                        The head of the experiments was Hero of Socialist Labor Sergey Nikolaevich Vernov. According to the USSR State Register of Discoveries, it was he who discovered the external radiation belt.
                        http://ross-nauka.narod.ru/01/01-023.html/

                        Already Sputnik-2 with Laika on board detected a radiation belt, but the misinterpretation, secrecy, and the same aluminum that saved the American astronauts
                        “The counter was there under the aluminum casing and the shell of the device with a total thickness of ≈2–3 g / cm2, and, in theory, only protons with energies> 30–50 MeV could reach it. For solar events of low power, such protons are unlikely, and electrons of not very high energies (≤1 MeV) are also decelerated and do not reach the counter "
                        prevented fixing our priority in the name of the belt.
                        And so would Vernov’s radiation belt.

                        Only to simulate the effects of cosmic radiation on the spacecraft was specially built:
                        1. Cyclotron

                        2. Electrostatic generator

                        3. Cascade generator

                        4. Industrial x-ray machine

                        5. Linear electron accelerator


                        A page from the Institute’s website with a list of references.
                        http://lib.sinp.msu.ru/collections.cgi?type=tutorial
                        Carefully read at least a couple of books from there:
                        Akishin A.I. “Space materials science” and L.S. Novikov "Radiation effects on the materials of spacecraft."

                        This is a really solid material, study.

                        I open the first links and what I see, again a link to the main page of the institute’s website, a link to an article about the history of the opening of radiation belts, a link to the state registry about registering the opening of radiation belts. And the last link to a list of heaps of literature from the history of the atomic nucleus to electron microscopy and ion spectroscopy.
                        Not a single direct link to information about the dangerous effects of cosmic radiation on humans. The question arises: are you kidding? It is very similar to the fact that instead of sharing a pearl seed of knowledge, you buried it in a pile of manure and offer me to find it.
                        I need direct links to information regarding the negative impact of cosmic radiation on the body of astronauts. Do you have them?
                        I give you an example of such a link:
                        https://rgdn.info/byli_li_amerikancy_na_lune
                      12. Doctor
                        Doctor 4 October 2019 17: 06
                        0
                        I need direct links to information regarding the negative effects of cosmic radiation on the body of astronauts. Do you have them?

                        One out of two.
                        1. We decided to troll.
                        I do not mind. Itself is a sinner.
                        2. You are from the NEXT generation - a victim of tutors. Almost complete loss of independent work skills.
                        Well, I’ll work as a tutor.

                        If you think that cosmic radiation was dealt with only by SINP MSU D.V. Skobeltseva, then deeply mistaken. This institution studied mainly the physical parameters of cosmic radiation. And those questions that interest you (the effect of radiation on the organism of living things) were worked out:
                        1. Institute of Biophysics, Ministry of Health of the USSR.
                        2. Institute of Biophysics, Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Pushchino (look at the map - this is a whole city).
                        3. Institute of Aviation and Space Medicine of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR.
                        4. Institute of Medical Radiology, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR Obninsk.
                        5. Central Research Institute of Radiology Institute of Leningrad.
                        These are only the main ones in central Russia, and there were (and are) the Novosibirsk Academgorodok and the regionals.
                        As a result, a whole science was born - radiobiology.

                        You, of course, will not visit the sites of these research institutes, so type in Google - Shafirkin A.V., Grigoriev Yu.G. "Interplanetary and orbital space flights. Radiation risk for cosmonauts". Downloading. Studying. Especially Chapter 3 - Analysis of existing approaches to assessing radiation hazard in the process of interplanetary and orbital space flights. There, from acute radiation sickness to the state of spermatogenesis.

                        Also pay attention to chapter 4.
                        It turns out that not only your ingenious friends with Picabu were preoccupied with cosmic radiation. Someone S.P. Korolev guessed about its harmful effects already in 1966. And he gave the task to study the effect of cosmic radiation on the body when flying not to the moon, but to Mars.
                        TO MARS, CARL! In the year 1966!
                        And the next time you raise a glass of beer, remember the 246 dogs who gave their lives for our astronauts in such enclosures with gamma irradiators.

                        As well as American for their own.

                        PS
                        And do not think that radiation safety issues are regulated by popular science books.
                        GOST 25645.201-83. State standard of the USSR. Safety of the radiation crew of the spacecraft in space flight.
                        http://docs.cntd.ru/document/gost-25645-201-83
                        GOST R 50804-95. State standard of the Russian Federation. Cosmonaut's habitat in a manned spacecraft. General medical and technical requirements.
                        http://docs.cntd.ru/document/gost-r-50804-95

                        P.P.S
                        PS Flies to us for offtopic ...

                        I hope the Moderators will appreciate it as a part of the National Project "Education" wassat
                      13. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 October 2019 22: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I need direct links to information regarding the negative effects of cosmic radiation on the body of astronauts. Do you have them?

                        One out of two.
                        1. We decided to troll.
                        I do not mind. Itself is a sinner.
                        2. You are from the NEXT generation - a victim of tutors. Almost complete loss of independent work skills.
                        Well, I’ll work as a tutor.

                        If you think that cosmic radiation was dealt with only by SINP MSU D.V. Skobeltseva, then deeply mistaken. This institution studied mainly the physical parameters of cosmic radiation. And those questions that interest you (the effect of radiation on the organism of living things) were worked out:
                        1. Institute of Biophysics, Ministry of Health of the USSR.
                        2. Institute of Biophysics, Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Pushchino (look at the map - this is a whole city).
                        3. Institute of Aviation and Space Medicine of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR.
                        4. Institute of Medical Radiology, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR Obninsk.
                        5. Central Research Institute of Radiology Institute of Leningrad.
                        These are only the main ones in central Russia, and there were (and are) the Novosibirsk Academgorodok and the regionals.
                        As a result, a whole science was born - radiobiology.

                        You, of course, will not visit the sites of these research institutes, so type in Google - Shafirkin A.V., Grigoriev Yu.G. "Interplanetary and orbital space flights. Radiation risk for cosmonauts". Downloading. Studying. Especially Chapter 3 - Analysis of existing approaches to assessing radiation hazard in the process of interplanetary and orbital space flights. There, from acute radiation sickness to the state of spermatogenesis.

                        Also pay attention to chapter 4.
                        It turns out that not only your ingenious friends with Picabu were preoccupied with cosmic radiation. Someone S.P. Korolev guessed about its harmful effects already in 1966. And he gave the task to study the effect of cosmic radiation on the body when flying not to the moon, but to Mars.
                        TO MARS, CARL! In the year 1966!
                        And the next time you raise a glass of beer, remember the 246 dogs who gave their lives for our astronauts in such enclosures with gamma irradiators.

                        As well as American for their own.

                        PS
                        And do not think that radiation safety issues are regulated by popular science books.
                        GOST 25645.201-83. State standard of the USSR. Safety of the radiation crew of the spacecraft in space flight.
                        http://docs.cntd.ru/document/gost-25645-201-83
                        GOST R 50804-95. State standard of the Russian Federation. Cosmonaut's habitat in a manned spacecraft. General medical and technical requirements.
                        http://docs.cntd.ru/document/gost-r-50804-95

                        P.P.S
                        PS Flies to us for offtopic ...

                        I hope the Moderators will appreciate it as a part of the National Project "Education" wassat

                        We open the book Shafirkin A.V., Grigoriev Yu.G. "Interplanetary and orbital space flights. Radiation risk for astronauts", Section 3, page 74 and see:
                        “In Section 1, we have shown that the effect of solar cosmic rays during the development of powerful solar proton events (SPE) can pose a significant danger to astronauts during interplanetary space flights. Doses behind small thicknesses of spacecraft protection can be very high, which is not only can lead to serious disruption of the astronauts' working capacity and viability due to the development of primary radiation reaction (PRR), but there is a significant risk of developing a severe degree of radiation sickness and even death at these doses. "
                        All the materials that you are trying to prove to me that the Americans flew to the moon, only say that cosmic radiation is dangerous and that protection is not required. This is even a no brainer. Why are you juggling? Give facts on flights to the moon.
                        A number of flights to the Moon were carried out during periods of powerful solar flares, the very SPS, in which American astronauts had to boil alive in their "aluminum saucepan" in which they allegedly flew to the Moon. But these American captains-America even managed to gain weight during the flight, not to mention how cheerful they jumped out of their landing capsule. While our cosmonauts were carried in their arms, they were so exhausted in zero gravity. And this despite the fact that they carried out orbital flights under the protection of the Earth's magnetic field.
                      14. Doctor
                        Doctor 4 October 2019 18: 14
                        +1
                        I give you an example of such a link:
                        https://rgdn.info/byli_li_amerikancy_na_lune

                        I tried to open it.

                        The first link came out:
                        "Rogozin decided to check if the Americans were on the moon."
                        I didn’t even look.

                        I tried again.
                        I got to the site of some "point of view analysts' group."
                        List of "analysts"
                        Were: Rigden Djappo, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, Archangel Gabriel, Dzhabrail, Agapit of Pechersky, Quetzalcoatl
                        Expect: Imam Mahdi, Comforter, Holy Spirit, Maitreya,


                        The main news of the site is the video:
                        "From the known dead to the eternally alive."
                        Presented as
                        "A new priceless gift for all of us, a truly lively conversation with Igor Mikhailovich Danilov, lasting 11 hours 56 minutes ..."

                        The topics of "live conversation" are also summarized (as it is said - so far very briefly - this is in 12 hours ?!):

                        Ether as a source of free energy and why Einstein took physics in a false direction.
                        Astrophysicists have come to the conclusion that the Universe is a holocram and the world is in six dimensions.
                        The creation of man, God created man twice. About choosing a man of a difficult way to overcome the tricks of the Devil in order to come to God.
                        Why should God not be afraid, but love?
                        Quantum mechanics has come close to understanding the existence of the spiritual world.
                        About false teachers and how to recognize them.
                        etc.


                        In the Books section the following "scientific monographs" are:
                        Birds and stone - the original Shambhala.
                        Ezoosmos
                        Sensei is an original Shambhala in 4 parts.

                        The site has an article on our topic: Were the Americans on the moon?
                        But in the site tree it is located in the section: Archons. Secret masters of the world.

                        Do you think I should read it?
                      15. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 October 2019 21: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        https://rgdn.info/byli_li_amerikancy_na_lune

                        Once again I repeat the question: do you check or go?
                        Do not read, I do not force you. Read Wikipedia.
                      16. region58
                        region58 4 October 2019 12: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Okay, I’ll work as a referent

                        Quote: Arzt
                        Carefully read at least a couple of books from there

                        Well, it's you ... you make books to read ... busting ... Clip thinking drives: give a link
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I need direct links

                        Then it will be: give a specific link to the fact that turtles and other organisms flew to the moon on our spacecraft (or will you also doubt it?). Give a link to the fact that nothing happened to these subjects. Give a link that the turtles are not radioresistant organisms ... Etc. It was sarcasm, if that ...
                        By the way, if you are not too lazy to go over my messages, then all this can be found. I'm lazy ... Yes, and there is something to do.

                        PS Flies to us for offtopic ...
                      17. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 October 2019 15: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Okay, I’ll work as a referent

                        Quote: Arzt
                        Carefully read at least a couple of books from there

                        Well, it's you ... you make books to read ... busting ... Clip thinking drives: give a link
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I need direct links

                        Then it will be: give a specific link to the fact that turtles and other organisms flew to the moon on our spacecraft (or will you also doubt it?). Give a link to the fact that nothing happened to these subjects. Give a link that the turtles are not radioresistant organisms ... Etc. It was sarcasm, if that ...
                        By the way, if you are not too lazy to go over my messages, then all this can be found. I'm lazy ... Yes, and there is something to do.

                        PS Flies to us for offtopic ...

                        A couple of books? Specifically, the name. I will read them with pleasure. I will not even ask to indicate the pages on which I say, for the first time I repeat, about the negative impact of cosmic radiation on the human body.
                        Clip thinking is to do with it. I ask you two to confirm your empty words for me with specific information and facts. From you in response clumsy links, verbiage about a couple of books, turtles and other organisms.

                        The topic of the alleged "flights" of American astronauts to the moon is indirectly related to the topic of education. An educated and sane person, having begun to understand a problem, impartially considers the problem from all sides. And on the basis of reason, logic and reliable information, he forms his opinion on this issue.
                        If a person is not educated, he stupidly believes as a fanatic. Such a person, even if the number on the head is comic, can not be persuaded by any arguments. And looking at a piece of perit, about which an authoritative person for him said that it was gold, he would repeat that it was gold.
                      18. region58
                        region58 4 October 2019 21: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        An educated and sane person, having begun to understand any problem, impartially considers the problem from all sides.

                        Good. Let's get it right. From the very beginning, according to your links:
                        According to radiation physics, 100-MeV protons flash through the Apollo command module. To reduce the flow by half, not completely, but only by 1/2, a thickness of aluminum of 3,63 cm is needed. For clarity, 3,63 cm is the height of the entire selected paragraph! In astronautics there is a scientific term - the thickness of the spacecraft defense. If we assume that the entire body is aluminum, then at Apollo KM the thickness was 2,78 cm (without the last two lines).

                        If you require specific answers, then you also have specific questions:
                        1. Why reduce the flow by half?
                        2. Why exactly protons, and not alpha particles?
                        3. Why 100 MEV, and, say, not 10 GEV?
                        4. What is the best proton retention material?
                        5. How deep is your knowledge of the Bragg peak and the Bragg curve in general? Did you know that this curve has a pronounced peak specifically for alpha particles and other ions?
                        Further (I will not copy the text):
                        6. What does the phrase "In addition to protons, electron streams collide with the metal of the spacecraft" mean? Where did the streams of electrons suddenly come from? Are they colliding with protons? Why does an electron, colliding with a metal, start firing? You have wires stuffed with electrons at home. And there are enough protons. The wires are metal. Does this mean that your wires are "firing in the form of highly penetrating hard X-rays"?
                        7. Where does hard, not soft, radiation come from? Why is there no gamma radiation and also neutron in the reasoning?
                        8. In which region of the Allen belt per second of the stay does the Apollo crew receive a radiation dose of 0,31 rad?
                        9. How deep do you know the Monte Carlo method?
                        10. How deep are you familiar with the Gaussian distribution of proton ranges?
                        11. Why is it according to Gauss, and not according to Weibull? Or not according to Kolmogorov? Or not by Cauchy?
                        Enough for a start. yes
                        In order not to clutter up a topic of little interest to most writings, it is better to write in a personal.
                      19. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 5 October 2019 15: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        An educated and sane person, having begun to understand any problem, impartially considers the problem from all sides.

                        Good. Let's get it right. From the very beginning, according to your links:
                        According to radiation physics, 100-MeV protons flash through the Apollo command module. To reduce the flow by half, not completely, but only by 1/2, a thickness of aluminum of 3,63 cm is needed. For clarity, 3,63 cm is the height of the entire selected paragraph! In astronautics there is a scientific term - the thickness of the spacecraft defense. If we assume that the entire body is aluminum, then at Apollo KM the thickness was 2,78 cm (without the last two lines).

                        If you require specific answers, then you also have specific questions:
                        1. Why reduce the flow by half?
                        2. Why exactly protons, and not alpha particles?
                        3. Why 100 MEV, and, say, not 10 GEV?
                        4. What is the best proton retention material?
                        5. How deep is your knowledge of the Bragg peak and the Bragg curve in general? Did you know that this curve has a pronounced peak specifically for alpha particles and other ions?
                        Further (I will not copy the text):
                        6. What does the phrase "In addition to protons, electron streams collide with the metal of the spacecraft" mean? Where did the streams of electrons suddenly come from? Are they colliding with protons? Why does an electron, colliding with a metal, start firing? You have wires stuffed with electrons at home. And there are enough protons. The wires are metal. Does this mean that your wires are "firing in the form of highly penetrating hard X-rays"?
                        7. Where does hard, not soft, radiation come from? Why is there no gamma radiation and also neutron in the reasoning?
                        8. In which region of the Allen belt per second of the stay does the Apollo crew receive a radiation dose of 0,31 rad?
                        9. How deep do you know the Monte Carlo method?
                        10. How deep are you familiar with the Gaussian distribution of proton ranges?
                        11. Why is it according to Gauss, and not according to Weibull? Or not according to Kolmogorov? Or not by Cauchy?
                        Enough for a start. yes
                        In order not to clutter up a topic of little interest to most writings, it is better to write in a personal.

                        Bgg, they made a whole exam. But the question is, who are you, Mr. examiner? Particle physics gurus? But your, forgiveness, ignorant questions suggest otherwise. In your hotly revered Wikipedia, the composition of cosmic radiation, which includes high-energy electrons, is also indicated.
                        On other issues, I will do the same as you, I will send you to study that mountain special. The literature you recommended me to read. Moreover, you have obvious gaps in this area. You don’t even understand the difference between the drift of low-energy electrons in a metal conductor and the flow of high-energy electrons formed as a result of explosions of supernova stars and thermonuclear processes on the Sun.
                        Like NASA with its puffed lunar epic, you are spinning like a pan, trying to divert the conversation away from uncomfortable questions about the amazing survivability of American organisms in open space in the absence of any sane protection against cosmic radiation.
                      20. region58
                        region58 5 October 2019 15: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Bgg, they made a whole exam.

                        As I understand it, there will be no answers. What do you have about "plum" then?
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        But the question is, who are you, Mr. examiner?

                        Almost all questions have the same goal - to understand who you are by answers.
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I hope the Moderators will appreciate it as a part of the National Project "Education"

                        It is impossible to help a person against his will (s) ... Unfortunately, lately almost all discussions have come down to mutual insults. Not least because the debaters have a superficial understanding of the subject of discussion. And the main thing in the discussion is not the search for truth, but in any way to prevail over the opponent. Alas. hi
                      21. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 5 October 2019 16: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: region58
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Bgg, they made a whole exam.

                        As I understand it, there will be no answers. What do you have about "plum" then?
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        But the question is, who are you, Mr. examiner?

                        Almost all questions have the same goal - to understand who you are by answers.
                        Quote: Arzt
                        I hope the Moderators will appreciate it as a part of the National Project "Education"

                        It is impossible to help a person against his will (s) ... Unfortunately, lately almost all discussions have come down to mutual insults. Not least because the debaters have a superficial understanding of the subject of discussion. And the main thing in the discussion is not the search for truth, but in any way to prevail over the opponent. Alas. hi

                        I will help you understand who I am. I, a person with a higher technical education, doubting that the biological creature homo sapiens in the person of American astronauts has repeatedly visited the moon and returned from there safe and sound. Without considering a host of technical issues that cast doubt on the lunar epic, I ask the main question: how did American astronauts avoid the fatal effects of cosmic radiation without proper protection. The official version of NASA that there was no danger, as shown by independent sources on the Internet, is fake. Your attempts to defend the fake, moreover, by putting your opponent in a bad light, without directly answering the question asked by him, raise doubts about your bias and competence.

                        ZY You wrote your last statement as if you were yourself. Your question about why my wires do not "glow in the form of highly penetrating hard X-rays" speaks for itself.
                      22. region58
                        region58 5 October 2019 18: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I will help you understand who I am.

                        Good. Let's try again.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        I, a person with a higher technical education

                        As a person with higher education, you must understand the price of such statements on the Internet.
                        You should also understand that having a diploma is not a testimony of the mind (in no case do not take it personally).
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        questioning the lunar epic

                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        attempts to defend the fake

                        Standard welcome, don’t you? At first, doubt is expressed, and then the statement is fake. This is not good.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        the main question: how did American astronauts avoid the fatal effects of cosmic radiation

                        You stubbornly ignore questions about the flight path, belt configuration, data from our spacecraft, the information that Arzt provides you. Again, the statement that for a second in the radiation belts the Apollo crew receives a radiation dose of 0,31 rad You do not question, but - how to understand it (statement) and where did it come from? At what point can such a dose be obtained?
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        independent internet sources

                        Are they so independent? And what is the purpose? Be famous at any cost? Attract attention to yourself? And why do you not question these sources?
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Your attempts to defend the fake, moreover, by putting your opponent in a bad light, without directly answering the question asked by him, raise doubts about your bias and competence.

                        Here the situation is exactly mirrored. For some reason you do not notice the same thing you said, but for your part.
                        And most importantly, I see no attempts to really understand the subject. You, excuse me, do not accept any arguments. When people start to ask you, in response to your direct question, how long did Apollo stay in the radiation belts, what is the condition of the belts at that time, and other defining parameters (note, the parameters are in numbers) - you have a celebration: "julite", " in a frying pan, "give a specific answer, yes or no" and other delights ... Well, this technique is also familiar.
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        Your question about why my wires do not "glow in the form of highly penetrating hard X-rays" speaks for itself.

                        And you do not rush. For example, the external radiation belt consists mainly of electrons with an energy of tens of keV. You will not argue? for example, in televisions (kinescope), electrons also accelerate to about 25 kev. Something dead no one fell ...
                        Once again, if you want on business, it’s calmer, more numbers and less high-profile epithets. hi
                      23. region58
                        region58 5 October 2019 21: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        independent internet sources

                        I’ll steal another minute of your attention. Independent sources on the Internet - they are different, both against and for. But those who are for some reason, you ignore.
                        For example:
                        Good afternoon, comt! I really hope that with this material I will close a series of exposure of the most common misconceptions about the impossibility of flying to the moon.
                        Judging by the comments on previous materials, every second person here knows what the Van Allen belt is ...

                        https://cont.ws/@exelenc/1092253
                        http://forums.airbase.ru/2017/01/t91736--razbor-oshibok-olejnika-ligaspace-pri-raschete-radiatsii-v-p.8443.html
                        Good luck. hi
              2. Glory1974
                Glory1974 30 September 2019 20: 17
                0
                These moments, really filmed by Kubrick in Hollywood studios to develop the logic of what was happening, laid the foundation for numerous gossip that the entire landing was allegedly simulated on the set, "explained Alexei Leonov.

                it’s necessary to invent such a heresy. Even NASA did not say such things and still claims that all the pictures are genuine.
            2. at84432384
              at84432384 30 September 2019 21: 04
              +2
              Grechko then sat on a salary at NASA. Tell the truth, you’ll get fired, but you want to eat hearty (I’m used to it in the USSR). The same picture with Leonov. But the main designers and scientists from astronautics were silent in Soviet times - the Central Committee of the CPSU strictly forbade it. Well, how can one do what is theoretically impossible at this stage of development ?!
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 1 October 2019 15: 04
                +1
                Grechko then sat on a salary at NASA. Tell the truth, you’ll get fired, but you want to eat hearty (I’m used to it in the USSR). The same picture with Leonov. But the main designers and scientists from astronautics were silent in Soviet times - the Central Committee of the CPSU strictly forbade it.

                Some Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, strange to you, has banned designers and scientists, but Grechko and Leonov did not have enough power. In addition, why were scientists and designers silent when the CPSU Central Committee sank into oblivion? Who then banned them, the Washington regional committee? And now why are they silent?
                In general, have you read the biographies of these astronauts? Do you think people with such merits and rewards will discourage Americans from eating?
                1. Nitochkin
                  Nitochkin 1 October 2019 18: 47
                  -1
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Grechko then sat on a salary at NASA. Tell the truth, you’ll get fired, but you want to eat hearty (I’m used to it in the USSR). The same picture with Leonov. But the main designers and scientists from astronautics were silent in Soviet times - the Central Committee of the CPSU strictly forbade it.

                  Some Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, strange to you, has banned designers and scientists, but Grechko and Leonov did not have enough power. In addition, why were scientists and designers silent when the CPSU Central Committee sank into oblivion? Who then banned them, the Washington regional committee? And now why are they silent?
                  In general, have you read the biographies of these astronauts? Do you think people with such merits and rewards will discourage Americans from eating?

                  Smart people, professors and scientists understand when you need to keep your mouth shut. We can reason it freely. And specialists are in special demand.
                  Did their merits and rewards make them holy? Tereshkova, for example, no less deserved and awarded, joined the Edro and votes for anti-people laws.
        2. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 52
          -10
          The Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipeline was built in the early 80s, much later than the American flight to the moon. The Druzhba gas pipeline was built in the early 60s, long BEFORE the flight, and was intended to supply the countries of the socialist camp. But against the backdrop of the collapse of the Soviet lunar program, to trample the Americans in the mud, such an opportunity would not be missed.
      2. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin 30 September 2019 18: 29
        +3
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        Americans were there. If this were not so, then the Soviet propaganda machine would have arranged a non-illusory schukher for the whole world. Missing such an excuse to poke your shit at a potential adversary’s shit is fantastic.

        Ha ha ha, here they are problems with education, on the face. Okay, logic suffers, but physics had to be taught. Although humanity is excusable.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 18: 42
          -6
          Each, even the small kapstran feil, caused a storm of hysteria in the Soviet press. And here is not a small failure, here is a major lie of the States. What, in your opinion, should have been the reaction of Soviet propaganda?
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 30 September 2019 20: 08
            +1
            What, in your opinion, should have been the reaction of Soviet propaganda?

            When, after Chernobyl, the Soviet government asked the United States to sell spacesuits in which they flew to the moon to protect against radiation, the Americans replied that they did not have such technologies.
            Propaganda was at a loss.
            1. region58
              region58 3 October 2019 01: 01
              +1
              Quote: glory1974
              the Soviet government asked the United States to sell spacesuits in which they flew to the moon to protect against radiation,

              Man, don’t make people laugh, the A7L spacesuit weighs under a hundred kilograms, on Earth if you just lie there ... Yes, and radiation on the moon ... in general, is not like that ... yes
      3. Glory1974
        Glory1974 30 September 2019 20: 25
        +1
        The Americans were there.

        May be. But there are a few questions that they cannot answer. And without these answers, doubts arise. For example, now, from take-off to docking with a ship in orbit, 4 hours pass, as far back as 10 years ago they docked a day or two. Now the goal is to reduce this time to 2 hours. Question: how did the Americans dock after 2 hours after take-off from the moon?
        How did they land after landing in 5 square at 5 km, in the line of sight of the ships meeting? How did they predict the approach from the Moon to the Earth to the nearest second? Although now, after multiple landings, the spread in landing can reach a couple of hundred kilometers. Etc.
        Unfortunately, NASA cannot answer such questions, because we have to admit that they had 60 technology in the 70-21 years.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 September 2019 21: 09
          -1
          But there are a few questions that they cannot answer.

          Yes, this is only a small part of the questions. Type in the search for "Lunar conspiracy", there are dozens of such questions. But there are also the answers. You can also ask a bunch of questions for Gagarin's flight, but no one does this. Because there is such a thing - TELEMETRY. Personally, I happened to end service with the drivers of the lunar rovers, and they claim that they received telemetric information from the Americans from the Moon, and not from Hollywood. In addition, the time is not far off when the Chinese (and maybe we) will finally land in the Apollo-11 landing zone. Then we will find out the whole truth.
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 1 October 2019 09: 48
            +1
            Yes, this is only a small part of the questions. Type in the search for "Lunar conspiracy", there are dozens of such questions. But there are also the answers.

            There are answers to children's questions like "Why is the flag inflated?" There are no answers to serious questions.
            A lot of questions can be returned to Gagarin’s flight, but no one does this. Because there is such a thing - TELEMETRY.

            This telemetry shows that the American rocket is not gaining the proper speed and cannot enter orbit according to all laws of physics.
            And the fact that in the 60 years it was possible to launch a repeater towards the moon and transmit from Earth, but supposedly relaying them from the moon, there is technically nothing complicated, therefore there are no questions here.
            the time is not far off when the Chinese (and maybe we) will finally land in the landing zone of Apollo -11.

            The Americans declared the landing zone a restricted area, you can’t land there. I don’t know if someone will conflict with them over the landing site?
          2. region58
            region58 3 October 2019 01: 07
            +1
            Quote: Arzt
            however, no one does this.

            Well, what for - as much as you like:
            - A man named Yuri Gagarin never flew into space.
            - All the photo and film materials about Gagarin before the “flight” and directly related to the “flight” are rather crudely made fakes, which even Soviet propaganda openly speaks of, explaining their production by the secrecy of the project of the first man’s flight into space.
            - On the morning of April 12, 1961, the Vostok automatic unmanned vehicle was launched.
            - Messages transmitted from the Vostok board were prerecorded on magnetic tape.
            - The landing of the “first astronaut” was staged by dropping the capsule and the “astronaut” himself by parachute from the transport aircraft AN-12 to the territory of the secret military unit of the Soviet Army in a strictly controlled area.
            - The whole legend of Gagarin (as a pilot, an astronaut and a man) was artificially created by the media (books, magazines, newspapers, radio, television) by Soviet court poets, composers, writers, journalists and several people from the so-called “cosmonaut squad”.
            - Gagarin was killed so that he would not tell the truth about his flight, namely that he did not fly anywhere.

            By the way, there are versions of the Soviet cosmonauts who died before Gagarin’s flight, and it had a real basis - the possibility of negotiating with a ship in orbit was checked - the records were transmitted. Americans heard such experiments and claimed that there were people in space.
            They say that they shut up when ours scrolled the tape with the recording of Pyatnitsky’s choir ... wassat
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 30 September 2019 17: 28
      -3
      Then answer this question: why after 1969 NOBODY could no longer land on the moon? Were the Americans there? And why then NASA now can not repeat the success of 50 years ago?

      Therefore, why do we not again launch a lunar rover to the moon. It was a race - who is the first. Seats are distributed, goals are achieved.
      Large-scale exploration of the moon is a leisurely business that requires preparation and reflection. And they are already working. According to plan.
      1. Honest Citizen
        Honest Citizen 30 September 2019 17: 43
        +4
        Seats distributed

        Here from this place in more detail please. Who allocated the seats? Which and where?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 September 2019 18: 23
          -2
          Here from this place in more detail please. Who allocated the seats? Which and where?

          The first satellite is the USSR.
          The first man in space is the USSR.
          The first automatic interplanetary station on the moon (Luna-2) is the USSR.
          The first remotely-controlled self-propelled vehicle on the moon (Lunokhod -1, Luna -17) is the USSR.
          The first moonlight on a manned spacecraft (Apollo 8) - USA.
          The first man to land on the moon (Apollo 11) is the United States.
          Etc.
      2. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin 30 September 2019 18: 42
        +3
        Quote: Arzt
        Then answer this question: why after 1969 NOBODY could no longer land on the moon? Were the Americans there? And why then NASA now can not repeat the success of 50 years ago?

        Therefore, why do we not again launch a lunar rover to the moon. It was a race - who is the first. Seats are distributed, goals are achieved.
        Large-scale exploration of the moon is a leisurely business that requires preparation and reflection. And they are already working. According to plan.

        If it was only a race for places, then the second time the Lunokhod would not be launched.
        But that country, the USSR, is no longer there. But there is a stab fund.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 September 2019 19: 03
          +2
          If it was only a race for places, then the second time the Lunokhod would not be launched.
          But that country, the USSR, is no longer there. But there is a stab fund.

          I agree completely. Of course, besides the race, there was a powerful scientific program.
          Come on moon. When you read Soviet programs for the development of the AMS of Venus and Mars, it is generally difficult to believe that this was possible in those years. That's what you need to do now, manned interplanetary flights are still not feasible due to radiation. Plus build your own Hubble-type orbital telescope.
  10. Sergei 23
    Sergei 23 30 September 2019 16: 22
    +6
    The author of the article caused a storm of negative emotions in me. And indeed, all the reform of something comes down to the designation of the goal. The expenditure of not small budgetary funds. And then, so familiar
    phrase Wait and see!
    1. yashacat
      yashacat 30 September 2019 17: 00
      0
      Sorry, accidentally minus.
      1. Mcar
        Mcar 30 September 2019 20: 26
        +1
        Quote: yashacat
        Sorry, accidentally minus.

        And you can fix it. At least how many times click on - or +, the result will change as many times.
  11. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 30 September 2019 16: 35
    +8
    Judging by how many schools are closing in villages today, this reform is yet another crime against the Russian Federation and its indigenous population!
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 20
      -4
      Well, let's say the school I studied at was closed back in 1978. The reason is the same - a small number of students. These are now school buses, then we got to the school as best we could.
      1. Sapsan136
        Sapsan136 30 September 2019 17: 26
        +10
        And now in many villages and people live and there are no buses and the school has been closed and the villages are not so small ... And how does this fit with the Kremlin’s statements about the allegedly adopted program for the revival of the village ?! If there is no school, kindergarten and hospital, then the youth will leave this village, it’s obvious!
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 September 2019 17: 56
          -4
          Out of my class, graduated in 1980, only 5 people remained in the village. Everyone else is where, mainly to Moscow, Leningrad and Novgorod. Young people began to leave the countryside en masse during Khrushchev.
          1. Sapsan136
            Sapsan136 1 October 2019 00: 36
            +2
            My wife in the village from the classroom has only 2 left ... it's in the 90s ... And now there will be zeros, because there are no schools, no hospitals, no kindergartens, no work, some tales on TV about the alleged revival of the village
  12. Lexus
    Lexus 30 September 2019 16: 40
    +8
    Searchlights, searchlights, searchlights!
    Loud presentation, "mastering" means, "retouching" or hushing up failed results.
  13. sergo1914
    sergo1914 30 September 2019 16: 49
    +5
    In the Soviet higher technical school I am impressed by two points
    1) "Russian" school (this is not racism, the term is) - before you design something, learn to work with it and work on it. Before designing an ATGM or SAM, try to hit her target. Very sobering.
    2) Thinking is necessary in categories. The rocket should go into space, a man (alive and, if possible, healthy) should sit in the rocket. Everything else is unimportant and no one cares. Allows you to concentrate on the main tasks.
  14. samarin1969
    samarin1969 30 September 2019 17: 44
    +7
    The author has written so much about native education, which is difficult to comment on.
    It is an exaggeration to consider the "depressing state" of schools. Frankly speaking, I have not seen such people.
    About the senselessness of the army of "budget students" - I agree. Whole graduates of good, but poor graduates are creeping into unnecessary faculties of psychology, ecology, and rare engineering specialties. What for??
    The main problem with Russian education is that you can practically not study. It is enough to pay in universities. Schools have been so "humane" that even a completely degraded student will be given a certificate: (even those who do not know how to write properly and do not know the multiplication table; which was repeatedly witnessed).

    "Young professionals" really works ... Something like a youth VDNKh. (A former student, due to her talents, made her way to the All-Russian level). But the "show" in this is more than meaning.

    All other projects are just a fruitless flash mob for the sake of "using the money".
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 30 September 2019 19: 54
      +6
      The main problem of Russian education is that you can hardly study. In universities it’s enough to pay.
      and not only in universities, in technical schools the same garbage ...
  15. rocket757
    rocket757 30 September 2019 17: 58
    +4
    This is the capitalist world and it sets its standards, Wishlist ....
    In general, we Soviet people were suitable for our education, achievements ... the level of development of our people!
    Will we be .... probably not us, but the descendants, proud of the same or not the same as our Russian ancestors? I do not know.
  16. Valerikk
    Valerikk 30 September 2019 18: 46
    +7
    Quote: Sunstorm
    Quote: Svarog
    It is very correctly noticed .. Everything goes to the fact that, as in RI, everything will be -14% educated ...

    In illiterate RI, Lenin, Stalin, Zhukov, Korolev, Tsiolkovsky was born ... In a literate USSR - Yeltsin, Gorbachev .. Gaidar ...
    Illiterate RI did not lock up houses, people lived in large families - in the Literate USSR - thieves in law, two-room apartments and families of 1-2 children ...
    By the way, I’m always curious why supporters of atheism-communism forget about the role of theological seminaries in the formation of the idols of communism?

    Lenin, Stalin, Zhukov, Korolev became Lenin, Stalin, Zhukov, Korolev precisely in the USSR.
    I was born in a village, Kalinin region. My childhood passed there. No one ever locked the door. The maximum propped up with a stick, which indicated that the owners were not at home.
    And in what lived in RI large families? And what do thieves have to do with it?
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 30 September 2019 20: 13
      +2
      The maximum propped up with a stick, which indicated that the owners were not at home.

      Having gone on vacation to the Arkhangelsk region, they still do it in villages.
  17. Alexander Ra
    Alexander Ra 30 September 2019 19: 21
    +1
    Multiple endless reforms - reformist terrorism of the population. It is impossible to adapt, therefore, it is a mechanism of social disorganization.
  18. Ehanatone
    Ehanatone 30 September 2019 19: 40
    +4
    After sucking on the finger of allegations of the inferiority of the Soviet education did not read further!
    The article is uniquely custom!
    Minus definitely!
    1. at84432384
      at84432384 30 September 2019 21: 11
      +1
      Well no. Article not ordered. The liberal author honestly and openly expresses the views of liberals on education for the people. The main thing is to paint the walls of the school (well, steal unintentionally on this), and that they are not going to teach anyone there anymore, is a trifle ...
  19. parusnik
    parusnik 30 September 2019 19: 51
    +3
    Well, God forbid, if the National Project "Education" will raise the level of education in Russia .... I will send a link to the article, to a friend, he teaches at a technical school, let him be glad ... And then literally yesterday, he "pleased" the level of education of students ... She says that some kind of educational institution is for the underdeveloped, it is much more interesting to work with correspondence students, you get pleasure ... But people there are already adults ... One question torments, when the level of education rises, will those at whom this level rise, find a job for themselves?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 30 September 2019 20: 21
      +6
      Quote: parusnik
      I’ll send a link to the article, a friend, at the technical school he teaches, let him rejoice ..

      My neighbor at the university taught strength of materials. Asks one about threaded fasteners. Does not know. The neighbor could not resist: "Listen, did you repair a bicycle at least once as a child?"
      "No"....
      "Or maybe you never had a bicycle"?
      "There was .... There is ..."
      I don’t know what a bolt with nut or a screw 17 for a summer kid is, it just doesn’t fit in my head. request
    2. Nitochkin
      Nitochkin 30 September 2019 20: 50
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      Well, God forbid, if the National Project "Education" will raise the level of education in Russia .... I will send a link to the article, to a friend, he teaches at a technical school, let him be glad ... And then literally yesterday, he "pleased" the level of education of students ... She says that some kind of educational institution is for the underdeveloped, it is much more interesting to work with correspondence students, you get pleasure ... But people there are already adults ... One question torments, when the level of education rises, will those at whom this level rise, find a job for themselves?

      A good ministry will not be called the Ministry of Education and Science))
    3. at84432384
      at84432384 30 September 2019 21: 15
      +1
      Education will be raised not by the "national project", but by the change of this ugly social system. Then everyone will find work. And the liberal apologists of this system will not remain without work - they will engage in physical exercises in the fresh air in the great Siberian expanses.
  20. Glory1974
    Glory1974 30 September 2019 20: 12
    +3
    Good. that at least something is being done.
    But most importantly, there are no teachers! Who will teach our children? In Altai Krai, a graduate of a pedagogical university receives 6 000 rubles. Who will work for such money?
    In large cities, salaries are higher, but now rates have increased by 2 times. If earlier it was necessary to work out 18 hours a week, now 36! What quality of teaching can we talk about?
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 30 September 2019 23: 29
      +2
      The aforementioned acquaintance, in a technical school plows 6 pairs every day, I’m not joking, a day off on Sunday ... while he has more than one item .. about 25 tyrov comes out .. 10 more than before in another place I got ...
  21. Ajevgenij
    Ajevgenij 30 September 2019 21: 23
    +2
    "And third, if the school curriculum was so great, why didn't you win the moon race against the Americans?"
    It's simple, read Chertok, he very intelligibly explains the whole process. So do not knowingly speculative statement to write, the author ...
  22. Tavrik
    Tavrik 30 September 2019 21: 41
    +2
    Quote: g1v2
    I believe that in any school, it is necessary to introduce the positions of educators and give them cool leadership, saving teachers from it. These educators should guide students until they graduate, starting in grades 4-5. Education, hiking, communication with parents, monitoring performance, behavior. What children do at school.

    The idea is good, but unrealizable. This is how much staff is needed? For each class teacher! As a company commander in a military school.
  23. Radikal
    Radikal 30 September 2019 22: 12
    +1
    Quote: Honest Citizen
    If this were not so, then the Soviet propaganda machine would have arranged a non-illusory schukher for the whole world.

    So, it was a banal deal. The USA allowed the Federal Republic of Germany to buy gas from us, and the USSR was in dire need of currency, and was ready to sell gas, while the USSR, in turn, admits that the USA was on the moon.
    Do you remember the construction of the Druzhba and Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipelines? Just about ... Legs grow from there.

    He cannot remember, because he was not yet in the "project" then .... lol
  24. Ragoz
    Ragoz 30 September 2019 23: 48
    +1
    In the Russian Federation - Learning is light, and LEARNING - tma.
  25. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 1 October 2019 11: 31
    +4
    Wonderful article! It is clearly seen in it that almost all the officials of our Ministry of Food are sitting on American grants. The article is clearly prepared somewhere in Langley by a very untalented pro. It is gratifying to see that our Ministry of Industry controls at least SOMEONE, because our authorities are all clearly along the trouser leg.
    Education in the USSR was the best in the world (no matter what the article says), and it was based on the approach to any person as a creator of himself and a creator of the world. Alas, the political system of the USSR after Stalin less and less needed those people who left the walls of schools, so that an ever-widening gap formed, which really was one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR.
    And what approach to a person is promoted in the article? It is an approach to man as a highly skilled slave. This is successfully disguised with punchy words and loud names, but that's exactly what it is. The Japanese were very tough with this "career guidance", and to this day they will not get out. I wonder if our authorities are aware of the energy with which they, led by foreign curators, are digging holes for themselves literally from all sides? The picture is really creepy ...
  26. nikvic46
    nikvic46 1 October 2019 13: 13
    +1
    Firstly, on ideology. If the state exists, then there is ideology. Another thing is what direction it has. I do not say that everything is bad. But some amendments still need to be made. By education in the USSR. I don’t know what Kennedy said there, but the UN recognition in 1952 says a lot. The desire to separate gifted children from the rest is simply not clear. In my experience, many children do not immediately gain abilities. And they already waved a hand. There is a great desire to make all our people the same. To comb all under one comb. This is impossible by nature.
  27. grumbler
    grumbler 3 October 2019 20: 54
    +1
    Now with the defense of dissertations the situation is much more complicated. Firstly, after four years of undergraduate studies, a university graduate cannot enter graduate school - a master's level is required, and not every university has the appropriate conditions for this.


    The Bachelor-Master-PostDoc (Postgraduate) system generally implies that a student can transfer from university to university. This is a fundamental Property, not a defect in this system. This allows the future scientist (and this system is primarily designed to prepare researchers!) To try himself in different scientific schools. This is an Anglo-American mobility-based approach.
    But it must be provided organizationally - scholarships that go to the university "for the student", housing, etc. and rely on "mobility", "variability" at the level of the student's worldview - this is part of liberal thinking final manifestations, and not the system that gave rise to them).

    The differentiation of education into elite and “ordinary” schools is also alarming. Although this practice was also in the Soviet Union with schools at various universities and even research institutes. Still, I really want the teaching level to be equally high in all schools in the country.


    This cannot be in principle. There cannot be (on average) the same qualifications as an ordinary teacher of a general secondary school (OSH) and a rather rare type of teacher-mentor-scientist from a special school. As one should not expect (on average) the same eagerness to study with an ordinary student and a gifted highly motivated child who has been selected through contests and competitions in an elite specialized school. The only thing that needs to be done is to maintain a high level of selection in state (free) elite educational institutions. Children should get into them only by the results of a rigorous selection of contests (systems of olympiads, etc.), and not for a fee or through acquaintance.

    A certain problem is the transition of almost all pedagogical universities to undergraduate studies: that is, a young teacher comes to school after 4 years of study with an appropriate set of knowledge. At the same time, entering a pedagogical university, for example, at the Faculty of Physics and Mathematics, now there is no need to take physics. Enough exam in social studies, basic mathematics and the Russian language.


    To solve this problem. Very simple - you need to transfer all the specialized training of school teachers from the Pedagogical University (PU) to Research Universities (PS). Let a person go to the physics department / philology / history department / ... PS. Ends with all the undergraduate. And he makes the final choice - to study as a researcher or as a teacher. If the teacher, then instead of hours devoted to deepening scientific specialization and research, he will spend time on classes in teaching methodology, psychology and other things important for the teacher. And get practice (!) In educational institutions.
    Moreover, classes for undergraduate teachers should be carried out already in the magistracy of PU, not an IU. Those. Pedagogical universities will either train teachers for kindergartens and those who read primary and special courses in a full cycle (specialty). uch. institutions. And for "subject students" will only be a master's degree.
    This will kill the herd of hares:
    - We will greatly increase the level of basic education of subject teachers and expand their horizons.
    - We will not force the PS to assume the functions of training teachers that are not peculiar to them.
    - PU will be able to focus specifically on the methodology and psychology of pedagogy.
    - We will get rid of duplication of the departments of physics, mathematics, history, philologists, etc. in the PU and IU.
    - Because and educators and researchers will complete the bachelor's program in IU together, we will significantly strengthen the links between pedagogy (in IU) and fundamental science (IU). This is especially true for disciplines such as psychology. Nothing prevents the implementation of joint master's programs between PU and PS.
    - Those researchers who belatedly realized that they had no place in science (and such disappointment also happens in graduate school), will have the opportunity to undergo pedagogical retraining at the university. And after that, armed with pedagogical, psychological knowledge and techniques, they will be able to become professional educators (without this, you can not let children in!).
    1. grumbler
      grumbler 3 October 2019 21: 33
      +1
      If anyone is interested, then in the topic https://topwar.ru/160222-pora-vzjat-luchshee-iz-sistemy-sovetskogo-obrazovanija.html
      I posted a comment-sheet, with a kind of homebrew "analysis" of owls. education, what (in my opinion) needs to be taken today and what not. What he lacks. Your opinion is interesting.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 5 October 2019 07: 29
    0
    In my opinion, it is necessary to restore the responsibility of the student for that level of knowledge and discipline of behavior and behavior. No matter how smart the teacher is, it can be very difficult for him to lead a lesson if there is at least one shalapai in the class who deliberately interferes with the lesson and every teacher has iron nerves. I remember well the times when all the general compulsory education was eight years old, and when I came to the ninth grade, I saw that out of three eighth graders with an occupancy of 30 people on average, 26 people remained in the only ninth grade. And in the very first days of study, the director came to our class, the meaning of his speech can be reduced to the words: "If you want to study, study, no way, no one keeps you here, you got an eight-year education, and then your business is how to live." Everyone in the class, everyone who wanted to learn, received a certificate of maturity. One name is worth it!
  30. Geo
    Geo 6 October 2019 23: 53
    0
    And when the years of frantic democracy began, all the disadvantages of the school surfaced: no one knows how to realize their skills and talents all the walls of factories, research institutes and universities

    Uh, we do not live in the Middle Ages, when goods were created by a craftsman in his yard, and science was moved by an "alchemist" at home. Today, the result is achieved by complexly organized structures that have the proper materiel and the appropriate recruitment for their activities. Here's a research institute, factories, etc. Are you proposing to return to the Middle Ages, and let everyone again be their own factory, their own research institutes?
  31. Geo
    Geo 7 October 2019 00: 00
    0
    A serious problem of the entire structure of education since Soviet times was the almost pathological desire to enter higher educational institutions
    Wrong. In the Union, a hard worker could get more than his immediate boss, and therefore the demand for a "tower" was not so widespread.
  32. Geo
    Geo 7 October 2019 00: 04
    0
    Higher Attestation Commission ... reduced the list of peer-reviewed scientific journals

    The way she reduced it didn’t solve the problem at all.
  33. Sunstorm
    Sunstorm 7 October 2019 16: 37
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    It was not a chapter, but a country's leadership. Do not wig to the side.

    At what point did the head of the country cease to be its leadership? What kind of kindergarten is this?
    Don’t be offended, but everything starts to look even worse than I thought.