At VASO completed the slipway assembly of the first sample of the new IL-96-400M

The slipway assembly of the first prototype of the new wide-body airliner Il-96-400М was completed at the Voronezh Aircraft Plant (VASO). It is reported by RIA News with reference to the press service of the Aviation complex named after S.V. Ilyushin.

According to the report, the first IL-96-400М prototype went through the slipway assembly stage and will be moved to the final assembly workshop, where its construction will continue, which is planned to be completed by the end of next year. After the construction is completed, the aircraft will be handed over for the phase of ground and flight tests. The first flight of the new aircraft is scheduled for 2021 year. The first production aircraft Il-96-400М is planned to be released in the 2023 year.

The construction of the aircraft is planned to be completed by the end of the 2020 year, after which it will be handed over to Ilyushin specialists for ground and flight tests. The first flight of the prototype is scheduled for 2021 year

- said in a statement.

As previously reported, the wide-body IL-96-400M aircraft is created on the basis of the serial IL-96 entirely from Russian components. Compared to its predecessor, the new aircraft has a longer elongated fuselage and new more powerful PS-90A1 engines instead of PS-90A. Depending on the layout of the cabin, he will be able to take on board up to 400 passengers. According to the developers, in many ways, including cost-effectiveness, reliability and safety, the IL-96-400M will be compared with the best Western counterparts.

Comments

[Piramidon]

The slipway assembly of the first model of the new wide-body airliner Il-96-400M was completed at the Voronezh aircraft factory (VASO).

The ice has broken. Pleases.

[WILL]

I must say thanks to Khristenko ... who froze him in this ice, as a hopeless and not able to withstand competition with Western models! And nothing ... and further "leads" the ECE ... (Eurasian Economic Commission)

[Vladimir16]

That’s right, Khristenko took it and froze it. One. Sam la, without an ensemble.

It is important that the production of aircraft is restarted.
The good news is, although I myself already fly a point. Better for cars, and when time allows it in a compartment, by train.
The chicken wrapped in the newspaper Trud, testicles, salted cucumbers. Lyapota.

[WILL]

Quote: Vladimir16

That’s right, Khristenko took it and froze it. One. Sam la, without an ensemble.

It is important that the production of aircraft is restarted.
The good news is, although I myself already fly a point. Better for cars, and when time allows it in a compartment, by train.
The chicken wrapped in the newspaper Trud, testicles, salted cucumbers. Lyapota.

Khristenko at that time was Minister of Industry and Trade, Deputy Chairman of the Government of Russia. The corresponding decision lobbied, accepted, signed - OH. And with orchestra or not, it does not matter. Maybe the wife (Golikova) suggested ... also a "talented person." He is responsible for this decision.

[Vladimir16]

Yes, on the drum already.
Now it is important to start production.
And these will die with time.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: ANIMAL

Maybe the wife (Golikova) suggested ... also a "talented person."

Well, talent in the government does not hold.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

... although I myself already fly a point.

But in vain! I prefer to fly.
If something happens, then life will be bright, but short!

[donavi49]

Well, I’m not very moved yet. If anything, this is regular.

Here in 2017 year:
The United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) has signed a contract with the Aviation Complex im. SV Ilyushin ("Il") for the development of a wide-body passenger aircraft Il-96-400M, reports "Il". The contract stipulates that the first prototype will rise into the air in 2019

2019 is 2021 year.

And even the UAC - openly says that the aircraft is needed to maintain competencies for a truly competitive 929 which, as it is already in Russia, is also planned to be produced.
The UAC explained to the publication that the Il-96-400M project will become an intermediate link in anticipation of the release of a Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft. "It is important to maintain competencies in terms of wide-body long-range aircraft"- quoted by" Izvestia "UAC.

[Sky strike fighter]

With two PD-35 and IL-96-400M it will be quite competitive for itself, so we will assume that the ice nevertheless moved when creating the first modification of the IL-96-400M with four PS-90A1. (17,4 tons).

The UAC explained to the publication that the Il-96-400M project will become an intermediate link in anticipation of the release of a Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft. “It is important to preserve competence in the part of wide-body long-haul aircraft,” Izvestia quotes the UAC.

Until now, only four Il-96-400T aircraft have been produced, which were intended for the Polet airline. After its bankruptcy, the aircraft were sent for conversion into two Il-96-400TZ tankers and one VVIP-board for the Ministry of Defense, as well as an Il-96-400VPU air control center for the FSB.

https://altyn73.livejournal.com/1405653.html

[donavi49]

Well, it will be a miracle if 400M - at least two dozen can do it, or rather drive off the factory, then they can do it, they have already done it, but they abandoned them.

Aircraft with PD35 - for good you need to do it again. For IL-96 with them will be very not optimal. And for what? If by then, 929 will be certified. Moreover, serious people are participating there (right up to Pu and Si throughout the ladder) - and money has been invested, and a large series is planned. UAC is considering not only the supply of wings for all manufactured 929 - but also the full assembly of the aircraft in Russia for Russian consumers.

[Sky strike fighter]

And for what? If by then, 929 will be certified.

To never depend on anyone. Or did the sanctions teach you nothing? And what is most important is that our people earn worthy in their factories. And for this we need a high added value, which can be obtained by producing the lion's part of the machine, and it’s best to do everything ourselves, otherwise we’re going to live in in the future, if I give the best of production to the side, because oil and gas are not eternal? Before my eyes is the example of the rich but helpless Saudi Arabia and Iran, striving to do everything on its own and becoming a powerful industrial country. I have closer Iran's path. That is, to do all by yourself and be strong and not depend on anyone and bring money to the country, and not from the country in exchange for something, and not buy everything ready from someone and depend on someone forever. As a result, the SA cannot protect itself and nobody will even protect it for money. And Iran is independent and does what it wants.

[donavi49]

Well, who will provide the added value?
AK - it will be profitable to rot the plane on the site if it comes to nothing (well, or according to the fed program). As Aeroflot actually did before. Then, by the way, 4 engines have not died yet and were relatively market-based.

UAC plans to squeeze the plane into 8 billion rubles without a cabin. That is, VASO will not particularly feed the aircraft. 8 billion is a psychological barrier, beyond which more profitable 2 propulsion planes in every 300 flight are almost the same price (~ 10-12bn for a new one).

Each 929 manufactured in the world will have a Russian wing. Moreover, the joint venture involves duplication of technology between participants. According to the project, at the moment - the engineering center of Russia, the wing of Russia, the fuselage and final assembly of China, avionics - international (but variably), various systems go to 1 and the next stages - in 2021 will be the first stage with already certified systems, then China wants replacing the majority with your own and certifying them not only for 929 - but it is a very long process. Engines - 1 stage international, 2 stage Chinese in Chinese, Russian on PD-35.

UAC is already seriously studying the demand and expansion of the project, for the assembly of aircraft not only in Shanghai, but also at the UAC site, for Russian customers. Most likely on the same VASO and will deploy.

[Grits]

Quote: donavi49

fuselage and final assembly China

This is the most frightening and enraging Russian person in this joint venture. Because this person understands perfectly well that in this case, the Russians will practically not have their wide-body aircraft

[donavi49]

Well, you read everything then .

The current plan is this. For the main package of orders will be formed by Chinese AK at the first stage.

However, the UAC is already conducting assessments and organizing preliminary consultations with AKs from Russia. If there is a pool of orders, then the possibility of organizing assembly in Russia at UAC facilities for Russian customers is being considered.

That is, there is rather an emphasis on the fact that there is no interest pool at the moment. AKs sit on long with Boeing and Watermelon, nothing else is needed.

[Sky strike fighter]

Well, who will provide the added value?

The state has a responsible and consistent monetary policy to support aircraft manufacturing enterprises. It is necessary to prescribe the right laws in which to force priority to be given to domestic aircraft for domestic air carriers, as they did in the United States at one time. Then there will be a systemic development of airlines, and not anarchy, where everyone is for himself as he is now. We have someone in the forest who has firewood.

[donavi49]

Then a bunch of questions arise:
- Who will compensate for the more expensive operation? I already wrote this:
for example, AK - A uses IL-96 and on a flight with the expected load in 300, the person sets the ticket price in 9999 rubles = gives 1% of the profit from the flight.
AK - B uses A-330 on the same flight with the same load on 300 people and sets the ticket price in 6999 rubles = getting 5% of the profit from the flight.

As a result, everyone flies to A-330 = because it is much cheaper, the company gets even more profit than it is mortgaged. IL-96 flies empty (for patriots 1,5 people) and each flight is a wild loss.

There are only a few options to solve this problem:
- bringing LTH aircraft to similar levels with analogues and squeezing residual interest with state regulation - in the future, these are MS-21 and 929.
- sponsor AK A on IL-96 the difference in each ticket + profit. That is, they bet 6999 rubles, receiving from the state 3000 rubles + 4% of the profit - by direct subsidy, but then the whole budget will fly there. This is also a dead end due to the lack of a call - that is, why do something better if they also do it, but everything is perfectly compensated from the budget.
- adjust AK B - so that they put the price of the ticket in 9999 rubles with the same profit in 5%. However, this is also not the best way, because increasing prices for flights on 1 / 3 will reduce passenger traffic for everyone. And it will be another point of dissatisfaction with the authorities, at the level in these Europe they fly for 30 Euros on low-cost airlines, and we have a similar route from 80 in length.

[257950]

In addition to 2 engines, a crew of 2 people is needed, and not 3 as before.

[Sergey Valov]

It is necessary to preserve not mythical “competencies” but qualified personnel. You can buy machines, build new workshops, and where to get trained people?

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Sergey Valov

You can buy machines, build new workshops, and where to get trained people?

So, while they are buying and building, they will be trained. Or retrain.

[Kontrik]

Quote: Piramidon

The ice has broken. Pleases.

The ice broke even 15 lei ago, it was just that it was hushed up in "our media" Such projects are not created in a couple of years and even 10 years .. There is a lot of preparation needed for everything and everyone What we are now seeing in industry and even in agriculture (we started to export agricultural products)
Tell this about 15 years ago, I would be beaten and called Uraklom and in other words hehe

[Beringovsky]

Kontrik
What we now observe in industry

And what are you observing in industry now?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The ice was broken 15 more leis ago, it was just hushed up in "our media"

So it turns out that "our media" are to blame? And what about "silence"?

Tell this about 15 years ago, I would be beaten and called Uraklom and in other words hehe

Urakl You are!

[Kontrik]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

Urakl You are!

Yes, I am Uracles and I will reproach ... Do you know why? I remember the end of the 80s and 90s
When people like you whined whined and trampled everything in the mud in ALL the media .. Even the officers of the Soviet Army were afraid to appear in uniform .. EBS yelled in the US Congress "God bless America" ​​and blood blood and collapse of everything and everyone .. You want to ? Now again wave after wave of whining is pounding .. everything is bad, but in the west it is good .. Well, everything carried me away, kick me as usual with a crowd

[Grits]

Quote: Piramidon

The ice has broken. Pleases.

I thought about IL-96 have long been forgotten and there is no production. I join your joys.

[Solo2503]

the aircraft was created with the union, what imported components then put? And who is the analogue for him?

[Vadim237]

Well, for example, any of the 14 countries that were previously part of the USSR except Russia, that produced components for it.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Solo2503

the aircraft was created with the union, what imported components then put?

Those components already, in many ways, do not roll. It is necessary to put modern ones, but there are problems with this.

[Sky strike fighter]

Those components already, in many ways, do not roll. It is necessary to put modern ones, but there are problems with this.

Well, if they are already completing the assembly of IL-96-400M, then those components from which it is assembled have already been made.

According to the statement of Yuri Grudinin, who is currently the general director of PJSC Il, the long-range wide-body aircraft IL-96 of the 400M series will consist entirely of Russian components. As explained by Grudinin, in the world there are only three aircraft manufacturing companies producing ShFDMS and the manufacture of a passenger liner, entirely made of Russian materials and domestic components and assemblies - this is a significant achievement of our aircraft manufacturers and the strengthening of Ilyushin’s position.

PJSC Il completed designing and at the Voronezh Aircraft Plant, work is underway on the assembly of the first prototype flight model; mass production is scheduled for 2023. The wide-body aircraft under construction at VASO will be a long-haul airliner, which at a maximum commercial load has a range of 10 thousand kilometers. IL-96-400M will be able to take on board from 315 to 436 passengers (the number of people depends on the choice of layout).

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/pilot1944awn/passajirskii-lainer-il96400m-budet-na-100-rossiiskim-5d2f0840a98a2a00ac3861c6

[Piramidon]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Well, if they are already completing the assembly of IL-96-400M, then those components from which it is assembled have already been made.

Have you done it yourself or bought it over a hill? Anticipating the indignation (minuses) of patriotic users, I will ask a passing question. How many percent of our domestic civil aircraft are provided with domestic components?

[keeper03]

There are problems when they are not solved, but only stated by mail and in the media that everything is tip-top! But we all see that the terms are constantly shifting to the right, and the people as flew on b / ear foreign cars, so it flies!

[kjhg]

It is unlikely to compare with the best world aircraft, but now it is important to maintain competence in the assembly of wide-body aircraft in case of sanctions like Iranian, with a ban on the supply of spare parts for imported aircraft. I wonder who ordered it, the airline Russia?

[Cook]

Most likely the customer: Special Flight Squad of Russia, Office of the President of the Russian Federation.
And Rossiya Airlines is a member of the Aeroflot group of companies, and so far, as far as I know, it has no plans to order the Il-96-400.

[Igoresha]

such news makes you sad. 1 pathetic little plane. it would be better if they opened a shopping center at this place or a quarter of elite housing and would buy Brazilian Embraers

[smart ass]

Stalin in the grave turned over from such an achievement of the economy

[Kontrik]

Quote: Clever man

Stalin in the grave turned over from such an achievement of the economy

Well, it was easier for Stalin .. There is no man there are no problems and the cadres decide everything.
Raise the country without executions and a rigid planned economy in the same Western sanctions and threats of invasion and destruction .. Here you need talent and love for Russia! I'm pathetic, but still

[neri73-r]

Quote: Igoresha

but would buy Brazilian embraers

Embraers will not master such airplanes, there will not be enough competence and competitors will not give!

[Zaurbek]

Embrair is already absorbed by Boeing and no one will let him do something more SSJ

[Berkut154]

Not Boeing and Airbas !!!

[Pavel57]

Embrair-Boeing, Canadar-Airbus.

[Vladimir16]

There will always be imbecile.

Quote: Igoresha

... it would be better if they opened a shopping center ...

[210ox]

You did not put a smiley, hence the cons ...

[Piramidon]

Or would you have thrown money into your wallet ... Face will not crack?

[Grits]

Quote: Igoresha

What kind of news they make you sad. 1 pathetic little plane. it would be better if they opened a shopping center at this place or a quarter of elite housing and would buy Brazilian Embraers

In order not to pick up minuses from readers who are not familiar with the concept of "irony", it is advisable to put a smiley at the end of the phrase.

[Zaurbek]

Who will use it? Merchants will definitely be. If you really need it, they would design it for turbojet engines. 2x35tn. Would put comm TRD RR. And when ready, the PD 35 would have a history of using the machine. This makes sense only for warriors, but they refused. Although it would have turned out to be TK and AWACS. Or a global intelligence agent.

[Sky strike fighter]

Civilian aircraft for warriors?

[Vlad.by]

Civilian aircraft for warriors?

For AWACS is much more suitable than the IL-76.
AWACS is also based on 707, by the way.

[Sky strike fighter]

If you really need it, they would design it for turbojet engines. 2x35tn.

First, the PD-35 engine must be created so that an aircraft can be designed for it. Work on the PD-35 is underway, but it will take years before it is ready. And it is necessary to restore competencies in the production of wide-body long-range aircraft now, without wasting time, otherwise we will have nothing to fly on sanctions. And the IL-96-400M with two PD-35s will be essentially a new aircraft, but competencies need to be restored what they are working on now.

Would put comm TRD RR.

Why should we support Rolls Royce from a hostile country in the UK, developing British engine manufacturing, and not our domestic? What is the point of production if the key elements of the aircraft, namely engines abroad?

Although it would have turned out to be TK and AWACS.

There is already an Il-78MD-90A and A-100 tanker based on the Il-76MD-90A. The Il-96-400M is needed as a civil wide-body long-range aircraft.

[Zaurbek]

1. All NATO flies on modifications of pass planes. There is more range and economy.
2. Use must be profitable. The B-747 in the newest versions (to which Ilya is far away) leaves the stage, in view of the loss in profitability of the B-777 and 767. TRD on a non-military liner - ATAVISM!

[Town Hall]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

And the IL-96-400M with two PD-35 will be essentially a new aircraft, but need to restore competencies

Can you explain in simple words what is hidden under this vague phrase-to restore competencies? .. Specifically, in what it is expressed, the main points

[Sky strike fighter]

To restore the scientific and production tone of the industry, which after many years of downtime is not yet in shape, that is, the ability to make airplanes with at least a small series.

[Town Hall]

Again vague general words. I asked for specifics

[Sky strike fighter]

The specifics lies in the ability to restore / master the full production cycle of wide-body aircraft by themselves, from drawings to serial production, so that all components, including engines, are domestically produced, again all materials from which components must be produced must also be produced independently. more specifically? Or what exactly do you want?

[Grits]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

There is already an Il-78MD-90A and A-100 tanker based on the Il-76MD-90A. The Il-96-400M is needed as a civil wide-body long-range aircraft.

But is an IL-96-based tanker worse than an IL-78? I think only better. For it can take a lot more fuel and, accordingly, refuel more aircraft or at a greater distance from the base. In addition, we are sorely lacking in refueling. Compared to the American park - in general - there is only one laugh.

[Pavel57]

There were plans to make a tanker from IL-96. But it did not work out.

[ultra]

Was the meaning of us and the Chinese to interfere in the wide-body program? It would be better if all the forces were thrown into the IL-96 remotorization.

[Sky strike fighter]

Was the sense for us to interfere with the Chinese in the wide-body program?

To shift to China part of their expenses in building a modern wide-body, based on the experience gained earlier in the creation of the IL-96-400M. China does not have such experience, and it is risky to hope for the West in China because of the confrontation with the United States.

It would be better if all the forces were thrown to the IL-96 remotorization.

So, a joint project with China contributes to this (IL-96-400M remotorization for two PD-35s), since the PD-35 should also go to the joint Sino-Russian wide-body.

[Zaurbek]

We need to calculate how much long-range airborne aircraft are needed in the Russian Federation, then it will become clear that their production will not be completely profitable. (The USSR with 300 million is no longer there and versions of aircraft like A321 HL and B737 with a range of 12 tkm appear) The Western market is occupied by monsters . The option with China, gives us at the start of the DOMESTIC Chinese market and Chinese leasing schemes to promote these ships further to Asia. Something like this.

[ultra]

Quote: Zaurbek

The option with China, gives us at the start of the DOMESTIC Chinese market and Chinese leasing schemes

You probably do not know, but the Chinese are going to sell on the domestic market without us, and we are offered to "master" the foreign market.

[Zaurbek]

The main assembly of the liner will be in China ..... anyway. The question is what are the rights to sell, service, supply components that we make in the Russian Federation. And will China be interested in our turbojet engine - PD-35. And will he be interested in our airlines. The main market for the next 200 pieces is China. The export of such machines is very difficult and the market is occupied by bigwigs. It will be possible to talk about exports after using them in China and the Russian Federation.

[ultra]

Quote: Zaurbek

The main market for the next 200 pieces is China.

This is the problem. They want to develop their domestic market without us. Gradually, our components will be replaced with their own and voila. They are with an airplane, and we are with a "flight". And no PD35 will stand on this airplane

[Zaurbek]

PD-35 is needed both for us and for China itself .... 4 thd x 15/17 tons atavism and will put such motors on all new machines. Then later he will go both to transport and energy.

[Nycomed]

They will most likely be transferred to the Russia squad.

[donavi49]

According to the developers, in many ways, including cost-effectiveness, reliability and safety, the IL-96-400M will be compared with the best Western counterparts.

Which are no longer available

The last analogue from Watermelon was handed over to the customer in the 2012 year - now about 150 aircraft from 377 issued (that is, less than half) are flying now.

375-440 people at 13-17 000 km.

At Il 96-400 it is declared - 372-424 person on 11 000 km

The latest analogue from Boeing 747-8I was handed over to the customer in 2017. And if it weren’t for C and Obama’s warming = a good contract under the conditions, then the Chinese would not have ordered and the last Boeing for people would have been delivered in 2014-15.

467 people and 15000km.

[Zaurbek]

The latest B-747 in the Cargo version ...

[donavi49]

Well, I only noted 747-8I = this is the last passenger set for China. 747-8F is cargo. And then, there, too, everything is bad with the program. Most likely UPS Airlines is the last one to receive 747.

[Zaurbek]

And it should be noted that the IL-96-400 is far from the performance of this version of the B-747.

[Zaurbek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd4ycAtYcJA

[exo]

"According to the developers, in many parameters, including efficiency, reliability and safety, the IL-96-400M will be compared with the best Western counterparts." (C)
For everyone in the topic, this phrase causes laughter. Yes, you need to maintain competencies. But, the plane and engine are the level of the end of the 80s.

[Sky strike fighter]

I agree, but the modification with two PD-35s will differ from the IL-96-400M that is being assembled now, as the Su-35S with new engines differs from the Su-27 of the late 80s, and this is serious in the future, so everyone is doing the right thing The big starts with the small.

[Zaurbek]

If the PD-35 looms ahead, then the wing for them all the same needs to be done, it’s logical to do it now and put the finished western PP in place. At the same time will be what to test PD-35. And the numbers that engine builders need to come to will be clear.

[Sky strike fighter]

put the finished western PP.

In no case do we need western engines. We need to set our own. And do not get used to flying on the engines of countries that impose sanctions against us, otherwise we will never have our own competitive engine building. And we will have time to do the wing when the PD-35 is ready. First the engine, and then the wing.

At the same time will be what to test PD-35.

First they will test it at the stands.

And the numbers that engine builders need to come to will be clear.

They will be known even without Western engines. Stop agitating for Western engines. Are you a Rolls-Royce full-time manager?

[30143]

As you remember, sneezing on internal lines is how many engines. Well, flies IL76 and IL476.
But in terms of reliability: 4 is better than 2. On two or three, you can safely reach the destination.
In our regiment in Afghanistan, there was a case when the fourth engine was launched when taking off in the air.

[Zaurbek]

Dry already came up with Sam .... and on the MS two full-time turbojet engines. This is the right approach.

[Sky strike fighter]

It was the French who invented the SaM-146, which, due to the loss-making of such a partnership with a Western country, it was decided to replace with the domestic PD-8, otherwise the SSJ-100 project will end. And you still call RollsRoyce here. There will be the same loss as with SaM-146, because they will not share technologies, but will try to shake as much money out of us and not let us as competitors rise, since the market has long been divided. With RollsRoyce and IL-96- 400M will be unprofitable. In general, competent monetary support is needed to increase the production of aircraft, as the Americans had at one time and after the production got on its feet, we can already think about the hand of the market and competitiveness, but in our country, on the contrary, we have not grown production letting him get stronger immediately release him into the ocean of capitalism, where there are a lot of business sharks who want to immediately destroy the competitor in our person.

[Pavel57]

Once there was an attempt to put Pw on the IL-96. Boeing did not.

[Zaurbek]

Boeing gave .... the country fell apart.
MC21, for example, was ordered mainly with American
Turbojet engine. And IL476 should not be confused even with the Cargo version of IL96-400. At one gp, they are at different times in the air.

[Pavel57]

Boeing did not give, using different levers. Costs of PW 200 Million wrote off. The story with MC21 showed perfectly that any dependence can be used in the competition for the market. Composites, technology, copyright. And where is the guarantee that the engines will not be banned. You can recall the history of the Tu-204SM for Iran.

[NordOst16]

4 aircraft engines instead of 2x - already by this indicator, he will seriously lose to competitors. Most likely it will be made with a much smaller number of composite materials than ms21. So this plane will be more unprofitable for airlines than western cars.
Unless the enterprises load

[Zaurbek]

Most likely, this is a safety case of a delay in the Chinese long-distance.

[NordOst16]

I think not, because in case of a delay Western cars will buy. Rather, in order not to lose personnel and load the enterprise.

[Corn]

Here, as if from the very beginning, it was thought that he had absolutely no commercial prospects.
Production is going to be restored solely for the purpose of replenishing state structures such as the Ministry of Emergencies, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and a special flight unit "Russia".

[mark1]

Quote: NordOst16

4 aircraft engines instead of 2x - already by this indicator, he will seriously lose to competitors.

How serious? Twice?
He will lose (somewhat) only with ground handling, otherwise the economy is not worse than Westerners. Stop blaming without going into the gist.

[Zaurbek]

20% kerosene ... that's enough.

[mark1]

And 10% of the commission ...

[NordOst16]

Well, at least 4 aircraft engines will cost more than 2 more powerful ones. Something tells me that 2 aircraft engines will create less resistance and weigh less than 4 engines. And all this leads to an increase in fuel consumption, which is good. And his glider with wings is not the newest (I don’t remember actively promoting the use of composite materials). So in what place should it be no worse than more modern foreign cars - I do not see.
And since there is no difference, why does everyone try to install (in the presence of engines of the required power) only 2 aircraft engines?

[mark1]

Quote: NordOst16

Well, at least 4 aircraft engines will cost more than 2 more powerful ones.

Trent is a very expensive engine, they say more than 2 PS-90A1
The forehead and weight are a bit more than 2 PS-90, respectively. Only ground service provides a win.

Quote: NordOst16

And since there is no difference, why does everyone try to install (in the presence of engines of the required power) only 2 aircraft engines?

To be honest - hell knows, some time ago there was another fad. tried to put as many engines as possible, even on small airplanes, apparently at some point in time it is beneficial to one at the other moment - the other, which is considered a priority, economy or safety. Take, for example, "Frigate-Ecojet" - it was designed for two, now it is redesigned for four - apparently the economy is not suffering critically ...

[NordOst16]

There are still questions to the ps90 itself, for if my memory serves me right, the working temperature of the blades there is lower, and therefore the efficiency.
It just turns out a little worse there, here and there. As a result, Western cars have an advantage in technical specifications, and if the price of a Russian car is lower, then, most likely, not much.

[Troll]

According to the developers, in many ways, among which profitability, reliability and safety, IL-96-400M will be compared with the best western counterparts.

Boeing also talked about the reliability and safety of the 737-max. So don’t say GOP until you jump over. You will build, test, put into operation and collect statistics.

[Zaurbek]

There are 777 and 767 and old 737 ... there are no special questions for them.

[boris]

Some people rejoice in the restoration of the Russian aviation industry,
others (donavi49) - to the achievements of the American.

[Sky strike fighter]

donavi49, in my opinion, from Ukraine, if I’m not mistaken, and there, for lack of my own, as we did in the 90s before, they praise everything that is Western.

[donavi49]

Why? I just pointed out that all 4 motor passenger planes in the WORLD went bankrupt and left the market. And he cited just an example of Watermelon and Boeing - which could not hold the market. Even the gigantic A380 - which is out of classes, has lost money and is closing.

What is the point of rebuilding the aviation industry by plane without a future? AK - they won’t buy it. Will buy a flight squad for the president. Perhaps someone else from the federal agencies will buy it.

The cost of the IL-96-400M program in the 2017 year is 50bn rubles. Planned price they want to meet 8 billion rubles for a plane without a cabin.

The plane is conceptually outdated + again, the market has resolved all 4 propulsion planes in the world .

At the same time, at the highest level, Putin and C are leading the 929 project. Which will fly synchronously with the IL-96-400M. At the same time, conceptually this is the latest aircraft at the same level of solutions with 787 and A350. And last year, the UAC said that they were considering the possibility of assembling aircraft in Russia for Russian customers, at one of the UAC sites (the same VASO most likely).

[Pavel57]

According to С969, we have not yet agreed on a business model and supply logistics.

[mark1]

The market did not decide anything, in this case, with close quality, the quantity won (with all that it implies). If now there is enough mind and will and the IL-96 enters broadly into the domestic market, then in the future it may occupy part of the market in the Near and Middle East. And while maintaining the line for modernization (2 PD-35, the black wing worked out in Chinese), Boeing and watermelons will be very sad. The Russian-Chinese plane is more of a Chinese one; when oriented to it, we really risk losing competence. the quantity will win again (it will be more profitable to buy than to develop full-fledged production) there is a high share of risk that the dividers from the UAC will go along this path that we have already walked once.

[Cook]

"Will enter the domestic market widely", how many planes have been delivered? And for how long? What is the capacity of the domestic widebody market in Russia? Will the production of the aircraft be profitable? After all, who will be its operator? It may take the market of the Middle East, or it may not. In this case, the wishes of commercial airlines are ignored. I agree that in order to keep the serial plant in good shape, several copies of the Il-96-400 can be assembled for the state aviation. In the end, the president must use domestic technology. But to bet on it, when playing for a long time, is to lose both time and money. Immediately it is necessary to design an aircraft for two PD-35s, with a new wing and equipment that meets the new requirements. But first, all the same, you need to ask potential customers what kind of aircraft they need, and study the international requirements and rules planned for commissioning. This is not a fast process. Do not forget that in creating a modern, competitive wide-body aircraft, we need to jump over a couple of generations during which we did not create anything in this area. It should be borne in mind that the experience that we had during the Soviet Union can no longer be considered as positive, since those aircraft were not created for commercial, in the full sense of the word, operation, and never fully competed with the best examples of world leaders. aircraft construction.

[NordOst16]

This aircraft will need to redo the wing, fuselage, adapt it to pd35 (which God forbid before 30x will appear) and eventually redo the entire plane.
Then it’s easier to new design. Silenok Malova is something we have for the development, construction and maintenance of such a machine and therefore cooperated with the Chinese.
They make the fuselage, we are wings, and all electronics (like engines) will be all western.

[mark1]

Quote: NordOst16

it will be necessary to redo the wing

And what do you and the Chinese do?

Quote: NordOst16

fuselage, adapt to pd35

How is it?

Quote: NordOst16

and therefore cooperated with the Chinese.

We cooperated with the Chinese, because we want a certain not weak share of the foreign market, but here we have taken separately

Quote: NordOst16

Silenok Malova

. But working with China, we risk flying over, because the PD-35 can change to AI-38 under which the factory is already clogged and not a fact. that the Chinese, having studied technology, will not make the black wing themselves. So the IL-96 in its evolutionary development is what we need (more precisely, what can somewhat protect us)

[NordOst16]

Quote: mark1

And what do you and the Chinese do?

Not the fact that the wing can be put on the 96th and not the fact that the alteration will be easy.

Quote: mark1

How is it?

The fuselage will need to be completely redesigned to use modern materials, and this could well be called creating the fuselage from scratch.

Quote: mark1

We cooperated with the Chinese, because we want a certain not weak share of the foreign market, but here we have taken separately

And for myself including that the car was not needed only by Aeroflot. And to make another car only for the domestic market - we are far from China or the United States with their large domestic market, these planes will be significantly more expensive than Western models and they will be bought from under the stick, and only our airlines, which will be the equivalent of throwing money away.

Quote: mark1

But working with China, we risk flying over, because the PD-35 can change to AI-38 under which the factory is already clogged and not a fact. that the Chinese, having studied technology, will not make the black wing themselves. So the IL-96 in its evolutionary development is what we need (more precisely, what can somewhat protect us

The AI-38 is ready as a new Russian nuclear carrier and it’s far from the fact that the Chinese can eventually get something worthwhile. Rather, they will install Western engines.
The project is common so it is unlikely. And if they quit, we will be left with nothing to do, we won’t be able to pull out the service of such a colossus all over the world, and to design and build an airliner for a very modest domestic market in order to say that it was made in Russia, money will never pay for itself . So to buy cars abroad will be much more profitable because investing a lot of money in a deliberately unprofitable project will be very stupid because the budget of the Russian Federation is very, very modest.

[mark1]

Quote: NordOst16

Not the fact that the wing can be put on the 96th and not the fact that the alteration will be easy.

Life in general is not a simple thing and everything in it is not a fact, except for one thing - we will all die ...

Quote: NordOst16

The fuselage will need to be completely redesigned using modern materials,

You want to say that the current fuselage is made of plywood and percale? Believe me, it is quite modern.

Quote: NordOst16

we are far from China or the States with their large domestic market,

We have a large domestic market, large (potentially) but artificially limited.

Quote: NordOst16

these planes will be significantly more expensive than western

When were our planes more expensive? and even essential.
And please deal with yourself, what do you want? I got the impression (erroneous of course) that you are for mining (because in the international division of labor, everyone should do what is demanded from him in the market)

[NordOst16]

Quote: mark1

Life in general is not a simple thing and everything in it is not a fact, except for one thing - we will all die ...

You can die in a shabby little room or in a good house on the banks of a reservoir with a picturesque landscape, as if the end is the same, but the latter is more pleasant.

Quote: mark1

You want to say that the current fuselage is made of plywood and percale? Believe me, it is quite modern.

I want to say that the fuselage of an airplane, which first flew in 1988, a priori cannot be modern and will lose to aircraft constructed recently using modern materials. If the IL96 project had been completely redesigned taking into account the use of modern materials, used a composite wing, fuselage, then on television and on patriotic sites, ears would have been buzzing about this, and as for, most likely, nothing had changed dramatically.

Quote: mark1

We have a large domestic market, large (potentially) but artificially limited.

In civil aviation, we have a little more than a thousand aircraft (not counting all kinds of business jets and government services) of which there are about 125 wide-body aircraft. So we have a small market to create a separate car for it.
Well, Ukraine could potentially be a developed European country with a budget comparable to that of Germany and France.
Our market, it seems to me, is limited by a relatively low level of people's income, but this is already a topic for another conversation.

Quote: mark1

When were our planes more expensive? and even essential.

Well, the same superjet at a nominally lower price costs companies more expensive to maintain because of an undeveloped service system and a lot of downtime. At the same time, the creation of a modern wide-body aircraft will cost much more money (20 lards were laid in Russian-Chinese) and they are unlikely to recoup.

Quote: mark1

And please deal with yourself, what do you want?

Wow, this is a conversation for a closer circle of people))) Well, if in general I want to, then respect for people in our country (because I believe that this is the root of our problems) and spending money carefully.

Quote: mark1

I got the impression (erroneous of course)

Usually you do not have one such impression (although it is incorrect). It’s just that very often I see people’s desires and plans as if the Russian Federation is a superpower, which is not true in my opinion. And from this desire does not correlate with opportunities. It seems to me that for now, to face the truth (about the economy, education, the level of development of science and industry) and understand that although we are large, although our economy is not so small, we are not the richest and most developed country. And now, after we learn to look objectively at the world, it will be possible to begin to build a superpower (for I believe that the desire to be the best in everything and everywhere is a very good goal, which is worth going).

[mark1]

Do you like apples?

[NordOst16]

Mmm ... yes, quite tasty fruits, but what?

[mark1]

Yes, no matter what - to health.

[NordOst16]

Weird question)))

[30143]

Good news. Nice...

[Chaldon48]

At this rate, you can probably build an ocean cue liner.

[Cro-Magnon]

Both projects need to be developed. And the 929th and IL-400. Great news!

[itarnmag]

I can’t fly on it

[Herman 4223]

Noos, good luck!