Military Review

Self-immolation of a scientist. Suicide Language and the National Question

152

Hero and sacred sacrifice?


On September 10, in Izhevsk, the capital of Udmurtia, near the building of the State Council of Udmurtia, Albert Razin, a scientist, candidate of philosophical sciences, assistant professor, self-immolated. He was 79 years old, he was known in the republic as an activist of the national movement and a pagan. What happened instantly became the reason for a wide discussion in the media at various levels, which was almost immediately polarized to the extreme.




If you look at the responses to the event in social networks, it will become clear: opinions were divided in the range from “abolish all these national republics to hell” to “in this evil empire you can only draw attention to the needs of small nations”. And this is probably logical: both fighters for the national identity of small nations and supporters of the abolition of national-territorial formations in Russia have long and openly preached their views. The question, as usual, is whether one particular episode will become a drop overflowing the cup, and if there are no flames somewhere in the Volga region due to problems with learning the native language.

It should be noted that the radicals have already tried to take advantage of the situation. In particular, calls were immediately heard to declare mourning in Udmurtia for Albert Razin. They try to turn the victim of self-immolation into a sacred sacrifice, to make an example to follow. Which, of course, is fraught with very serious consequences.

Frankly, the very act of public suicide, its circumstances caused a lot of rumors and discussions. In particular, there was an assumption that all this was a kind of staged act, as a result of which Razin had to survive and not even get burned very much. In confirmation of the words of witnesses, Razin was allegedly in a mask, he was wearing a lot (several layers) of clothing that was “clearly out of season”. Witnesses also mention a certain mask, which, apparently, was supposed to protect Albert Razin's face from burns.

Victim of unsuccessful provocation?


Checking these testimonies now is quite difficult: judging by the photo taken half an hour or an hour before the self-immolation, an elderly nationalist was wearing a shirt and a sweater, no mask was observed. Yes, it could be taken and put on later in the car, but there is one more detail - a suicide note left by Albert Razin. That is, at least he admitted the sad outcome of his action, which means that the language does not dare to call it a "production". There is a self-immolation video on the net, but it’s quite difficult to see the details of clothes in a fire torch. Therefore, to draw any conclusions is very problematic.

The act of self-immolation was attended by certain "associates" of Razin - members of the national movement "Udmurt Kenesh." This also raises some suspicions. But according to them, Razin invited them to take his picket - a request, in general, is logical, and as a reason to support an ally is quite serious. Therefore, there is also no special reason for conspiracy theories.

In part, the Udmurt mentality itself speaks in favor of the version of a well-thought-out and deliberate suicide. The fact is that in pagan times (and even after, when most Udmurts adopted Christianity), this people had the custom of tipshar - ritual suicide with the aim of revenge on the offender or to prove his innocence. They say that in tsarist times, Russian officials and gendarmes went crazy because, as a result of a simple quarrel between two Udmurts, one of them could hang himself on the porch of the offender - this was wild and incomprehensible. And now, frankly, we don’t understand this ...

Do not want to talk? Let's make it!


If we move away from the circumstances of suicide, it seems that Razin had less reasons for him than representatives of many other nationalities. Be that as it may, Udmurtia is a republic within the Russian Federation; the Udmurt language is not oppressed in any way; there are hundreds of thousands of native speakers in the republic. Another thing is that the Udmurts themselves prefer to speak Russian, and this is especially true for young people. It is difficult to understand who to blame for this: perhaps there is some kind of “imperial pressure”, but it is much more likely that native speakers themselves understand the archaic and backwardness of one or another language of national minorities. Indeed, this problem concerns not only the Udmurts - a similar situation is in the relatively prosperous Tatarstan, and in Chuvashia, and among other nationalities of the Volga region, Siberia and the Far East.

And when the native language itself is not really needed by its native speakers, the requirements include introducing compulsory instruction in the national language, announcing stops in it on transport and a lot of similar ideas, designed not only to develop the language, but to plant it.

Perhaps one of the problems is precisely the current political correctness. We are so afraid to offend the national minority with the question “Do you need your language?” Or with a study on its functionality, flexibility, ability to more or less fully convey the picture of the modern world! The simplest question: is it possible to master a modern profession without going beyond the boundaries of a particular language? And the answer, most likely, will be disappointing: even Russian willy-nilly has become a hostage to our technological backwardness, scientific exchange and cultural influence of other countries and peoples. What can we say about languages ​​that for decades have been used at best only for everyday communication?

So people move away from languages ​​that have virtually no applied value. And no matter how much they say that it is useful and honorable to know several languages, but they have less and less desire to spend time and effort on something that is unlikely to be very useful to you in life.

No, this is not at all a reason for gloating. As a person who is worried about the state of the Russian language, I can quite understand those who are worried about another dialect - “small, but their own”, as the song says. But we cannot endlessly go on about all kinds of local nationalists, therefore, the practice of imposing national languages ​​on all the inhabitants of a particular republic, which had existed very recently, should be completely eliminated. To someone who wants to return it even at the cost of his own life, we can only sympathize and move on. Enough already: nobody forbids us to study our native languages, let alone speak them. And if someone instead of hard work in the field of enlightenment and education chooses the language of ultimatums or even suicides - well, then it’s freedom, you won’t live by force ...

Still, the national question, the linguistic issue is extremely important. And you need to speak honestly about this topic. Otherwise, big problems are possible, as, for example, with Ukraine. For decades, there has not been a competent and honest linguist who would have demanded that one of the Russian dialects cease to be called a separate language, and therefore it is not surprising that in the end there are myths about the “most beautiful”, “the most melodious”, about the “nightingale mov”, which is where how beautiful this "Muscovite bastard."

Therefore, let Albert Razin rest in peace, and we will mentally thank him for raising the topic of language again. For us Russians, it is also very important. And it's time to start talking honestly about it.
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152 comments
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  1. samarin1969
    samarin1969 17 September 2019 05: 49
    +6
    Suicide is condemned by both believers and atheists. Moreover, it is not permissible as a form of political struggle. At the same time, the government supports the persistent desire of the state-denominations to raise their status (contrary to the Constitution!). It is difficult to comment on the Razin case itself - the author did not clarify anything.
    But about the "honest linguist" from Ukraine - this bitter irony. Oles Buzina is now in heaven ...
    1. smart ass
      smart ass 17 September 2019 05: 56
      +8
      The article is wet, what was written in the note?
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 17 September 2019 07: 31
        +16
        raised the problem of language ... including Russian. Which is clogged, in which, in addition to foreign words, there is a substitution of the meaning of many concepts. Examples of words with the substitution of concepts: Aristocracy (the power of the best) implies the power of the pampered. The elite (a social stratum of society showing an example of how to live and die) implies a top-of-the-line power merged with the banking system, Culture (a system of internal restrictions) means beating a tambourine and singing national songs, A strong state means the police, guards and the army .... Russian language go to the square
      2. depressant
        depressant 17 September 2019 08: 28
        +40
        Wise guy, don't care what is written in that note ...
        It would seem, but for God's sake - translate into Udmurtian quantum mechanics or Einstein's theory of relativity, and you will be happy. But we understand that this is not about that. The subtext is different!
        We live in an interesting time. Small peoples of our country, having their own territory and preferences, often surpassing the capabilities of the most numerous people of Russia, namely us Russians, suddenly felt themselves oppressed by the diaspora. Maybe because we have lost paternalistic opportunities in relation to them and can no longer pull them with ourselves or on ourselves (as you like) as we did in Soviet times? Can not. We ourselves would be living. Therefore, they are already looking at us critically and, like children, some have attacks of local egoism, others - a feeling of abandonment. Still others have contempt for the former father-nation. In general, different feelings, manifested in the form of armed resistance, and these have to be bought. Either in the form of self-immolation, and such, obviously, need to be consoled by creating additional preferences for them. But we are deprived of what they have. We Russians don't even have our own republic. Small nations are designated in the constitution, but we are not. And the "nationality" column has been skillfully removed from passports. We live as if in a foreign territory, and it is time for us to create a diaspora ourselves. We are told, they say, capitalism is in the yard, get out as best you can. They are not told that. Try to tell me, and Russia will begin to disintegrate into units at war with each other. And to prevent this from happening, we endure the rule of strangers. So maybe this is what they blame us for?
        1. Alena Frolovna
          Alena Frolovna 17 September 2019 14: 57
          +23
          A little more than a quarter of a century ago, when the phrase flashed: "Take as much sovereignty as you want ..." a small fraction of not too educated, but evil and envious Udmurts who wiped their pants in the administration of the autonomy, decided to declare a certain number of representatives of the Finno-Ugric group the main ones on the lands of the once Vyatsky but not the Votsky region, changing the wording about the equality of all residents: one voice of Udmurt = 10 to the voices of others. But, thank God, the chairman of the State Council was elected Russian man - the main builder of the republic, the late Alexander Volkov, and no longer talk about it.

          But now this useless language is forcibly forced to cram school students, technical schools and still scoff at those who are poorly given languages. This is real discrimination. Children who practically do not know the Russian language, since school hours are shortened, are forced to learn dead languages, which do not carry anything important for their future lives.

          I am not against the languages ​​of small nationalities, but at the level of electives, circles, and only according to the personal desire of each person.

          And you don’t need to humiliate yourself not by knowing RUSSIAN.
          1. sharp-lad
            sharp-lad 17 September 2019 20: 55
            -6
            And you don’t need to humiliate yourself not by knowing RUSSIAN.
            And also you don’t need to humiliate yourself by not knowing the language of the people with whom you live for many years! The knowledge of the language of their (numerous) neighbors is an elementary respect for these people. I myself live in Latvia and learned Latvian as soon as I understood these two simple truths, I speak passably (imperfectly) because languages ​​are poorly given. But the Russian, great and mighty, as was his own, remained! hi
            1. vadimtt
              vadimtt 19 September 2019 07: 02
              +2
              You are right about Latvia and any other state. But Udmurtia is part of Russia with a well-defined official language, so the Udmurts are just ashamed not to know Russian. I often visit Bulgaria and therefore try to slowly learn this language, at least at the most basic conversational level. And I must say, this gives a lot of preferences in communicating with the locals, although many of my circle are fluent in Russian. So you need to learn the Udmurt language for those who need it, and not forcibly and to the detriment of the state, sorry for the pun.
              And in vain they threw minuses to you, for the message is true.
              1. sharp-lad
                sharp-lad 19 September 2019 19: 11
                +1
                It's just not clear what happens to minus players here, you write in the "stream" - minuses, you write, not even against, but somewhat different from the main line - minus ..... Ah! Let them minus, I'm here because of interest, not for the sake of "shoulder straps".
                So you need to learn the Udmurt language for those who need it, and not forcibly and to the detriment of the state, sorry for the pun.
                In principle, I agree with you, but if you live among the Udmurts for years, then learning a little is not difficult.
                The state language is the state language, so that all citizens would know and use it for communication, especially in such a multinational state like Russia. hi
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 17 September 2019 09: 17
        +9
        Quote: Clever man
        The article is wet, what was written in the note?

        What is the problem? No problem. But they have enough suicides without this old man, and considering all suicides on a political basis is rubbish. Then you need to transfer the floor of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to work in this direction.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 17 September 2019 10: 38
          +7
          Quote: tihonmarine
          What is the problem? No problem. And they have enough suicides without this old man , and consider all suicides on a political basis, this is nonsense.

          This is where we should start looking for a reason: to a person 80 (!) Yearshe maybe already in complete insanity was (such an age) that he clicked in his head, it was necessary for psychiatrists to understand, first of all.

          After all, until this time, he did not burn himself? No. Or was the situation better? And it was worse!

          so everything is more banal ....
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 17 September 2019 10: 40
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            And from this we must begin to search for the reason: the man is 80 (!) Years old, maybe he was already completely insane (such an age)

            Well, that’s the answer. The question is closed.
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 17 September 2019 07: 42
      0
      Quote: samarin1969
      now in heaven ...

      Nobody knows this, and cannot know, the great saints sincerely lamented about their afterlife, and what to take from ordinary sinful people. Who knows - where it will turn out to be or where it turned out, it is possible to smash your forehead in the temple on the floor with bows, and not be in paradise at all.
    3. Karabas
      Karabas 17 September 2019 19: 27
      +4
      Suicide is condemned by both believers and atheists. Moreover, it is not permissible as a form of political struggle. At the same time, the government supports the persistent desire of the state-denominations to raise their status (contrary to the Constitution!). It is difficult to comment on the Razin case itself - the author did not clarify anything.
      But about the "honest linguist" from Ukraine - this bitter irony. Oles Buzina is now in heaven ...

      So he self-destructed because of the language? Clever. A candidate of philosophical sciences, a scientist ... And why are philosophers generally considered scientists? I understand ancient Greece, Sophocles are different there ... And now then? I remember Zhirik suggested 6 years ago to abolish the letter "Y", something self-liquidation was not observed in this regard. I am 79 years old, because there insanity and dementia have been progressing for 20 years. Normal logic replaced by the logic of dillies - I will kill myself to spite the enemy laughing
  2. Ali Kokand
    Ali Kokand 17 September 2019 05: 56
    +7
    Suicide is a grave sin. Life is given by the creator, and a person must live it, leaving a good mark. Sorry for the man. But it's not right.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 17 September 2019 18: 06
      +2
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Suicide is a grave sin. Life is given by the creator, and a person must live it, leaving a good mark. Sorry for the man. But it's not right.

      Life is given by parents, no? Or are you made of test tubes? laughing
  3. Shuttle
    Shuttle 17 September 2019 06: 03
    +20
    Grandfather was interesting. The manipulator is still one. Well, he had the words of Rasul Gamzatov on the poster: "And if tomorrow my tongue disappears, then I am ready to die today."
    True, there are still some circumstances that do not explain anything on their own. But give some food for thought. 79-year-old man had the status of not yet old father. He has a wife and daughter of 18 years left. Those. when my daughter was 0, my dad was 60-t. It's not about vitality, but about the citizen’s ability to take care of the family. In addition, the institute with which he reigned was abolished. Institute of Man. What kind of institute it was and why it ceased to be has not yet been clarified. But the picture of a very old-age pensioner-unemployed still works in a direction different from the ethics of the poster.
  4. anjey
    anjey 17 September 2019 06: 09
    +10
    Senile nationalist insanity, it is interesting in the USA, old Indians also burn themselves in protest about a leaving nation ??? Although their position in comparison with the Udmurts, absolutely nothing ....
  5. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 17 September 2019 06: 29
    +17
    only the provincial division of the country to begin with
  6. Errr
    Errr 17 September 2019 06: 32
    +7
    Nationalism produces idiots.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 17 September 2019 07: 19
      +32
      Nationalism begets idiots
      Until 2014, he considered himself a patriot. But then to the patriots. all these Solovyovs and others climbed ... who have real estate abroad children there.
      And now I’m a nationalist, on the one hand, the state is pushing, you are going on the subway, and there the next station ... You look around the car, who is talking on the Aglitsky Move? Is this one drilled, or is that Tajik? and at the entrance to the metro there are ticket office or policy signs. but this is one side of the coin.
      Another is that in Russia it may soon be not in the Aglitsky language, but Turkic-speaking languages ​​must be known. For there are more of them, and the Kremlin is happy.
      1. Errr
        Errr 17 September 2019 07: 26
        0
        Even if I make a hedgehog out of me, and then I will not change a single letter in my comment:
        Nationalism produces idiots.
        As William Shakespeare used to say:
        Plague on both your homes!
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 17 September 2019 07: 38
          0
          hedgehog
          that is, you are for the transformation of Russia into English-speaking Kyrgyzstan?
          1. Errr
            Errr 17 September 2019 07: 41
            -1
            I am for Man as part of Humanity. Sorry for the brevity.
            1. Alexander Ra
              Alexander Ra 17 September 2019 12: 55
              +1
              Nationalism produces idiots.

              Have you abandoned your nationality?
              1. Errr
                Errr 18 September 2019 07: 20
                -1
                Quote: Alexander Ra
                Have you abandoned your nationality?
                What is considered a "national characteristic"?)
                1. Alexander Ra
                  Alexander Ra 18 September 2019 07: 48
                  +3
                  I consider myself not a Man as a part of Humanity, not a "man of the world", but primarily a Russian man and I value this image ..
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 17 September 2019 08: 08
            -6
            Quote: Gardamir
            to English-speaking Kyrgyzstan?

            And why not in your beloved incomprehensible speaking Ukraine?
      2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 September 2019 08: 09
        +2

        When silence is more eloquent than words ...
        1. depressant
          depressant 17 September 2019 10: 46
          +8
          Herrr, your position is beautiful. You are for a person as part of humanity, and I understand you - you yourself once were like that. But will you be able to convince those who have already left us or are quietly going to do so in the faithfulness of their ideals? Or those who, already with an excessive alien presence and hypertrophic reproduction, are crowding out us, Russians, from the territory now occupied, at least in terms of jobs taken away by strikebreaking?
          Will it not turn out that some will come and say: "Who are temporary here? Get off, your time is over!"
          Offering an idealistic position, offer the practice of translating it into reality.
      3. bubalik
        bubalik 17 September 2019 12: 01
        +8
        Gardamir Today, 08: 19
        ,,, if still correctly executed, otherwise we have such innovations laughing

        ,,,but what but everyone understands bullyexcept for foreigners.
        1. Sauron80
          Sauron80 17 September 2019 14: 02
          +3
          We have the whole center of Samara for the championship with such crooked signs hung up))
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 17 September 2019 14: 15
            +3
            Sauron80 (Alexey) Today, 15: 02
            ,,,in! I also laughed that year because I myself am from Samara. And our sign laughing
            1. depressant
              depressant 17 September 2019 15: 50
              +3
              Yes, "ulitsa" made me happy good wassat
        2. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 17 September 2019 21: 09
          0
          I am sorry, very sorry. sad
        3. Ka-52
          Ka-52 19 September 2019 06: 38
          -1
          ,,, but what, but everyone understands bully, except for foreigners.

          By the way, when I ordered purchases with Ebey, it is written that way: ulitsa, dom
          so that scabbling is not darker IMHO
      4. The comment was deleted.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 17 September 2019 18: 09
      +3
      Quote: Herrr
      Nationalism produces idiots.

      On the contrary, in fact laughing
      1. Errr
        Errr 18 September 2019 07: 40
        -2
        Nationalism produces idiots.
        Quote: Doliva63
        On the contrary, in fact laughing
        What is it like
        In a healthy body healthy mind?
        ...
        ...
        In fact, one of two things.
        lol
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 18 September 2019 20: 27
          +2
          Quote: Herrr
          Nationalism produces idiots.
          Quote: Doliva63
          On the contrary, in fact laughing
          What is it like
          In a healthy body healthy mind?
          ...
          ...
          In fact, one of two things.
          lol

          As far as I remember this saying, there, in fact, something like this: a healthy body would still have a rich spirit.
          And about nationalism, I had in mind that only sick people can suffer from nationalism, they produce it. It looks especially stupid in our country, where Russian is a mixture of Ukrainian and Belarusian blood, for example, or like mine: my father is a Pole, my mother is a Buryat, and I am Russian. Familiar: he is a scumbag, she is a Tatar, children are Russians. And there are millions of such examples. We for whom to be - for the Russians, Poles, Buryats or Vityaks with Tatars? Nonsense, right. We are for everyone. What, nafig, nationalism ?!
          1. Errr
            Errr 19 September 2019 03: 35
            -1
            Hurrah! The fog was blowing. drinks
    3. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 17 September 2019 21: 03
      +2
      Frenzied nationalism! But a small fraction of a healthy, not demeaning neither bearer of nationalism, nor its opponents, who care about the development of their culture and their people without harming other cultures and peoples, nationalism has not hurt anyone. hi
      1. Errr
        Errr 18 September 2019 07: 33
        0
        hi For me personally, "a small fraction of a healthy person that does not humiliate either the bearer of nationalism or his opponents" is exclusively my original Russian language and nothing more. Having Tatar genes in my system, I practically do not "Belmim" Tatar at all. It's a pity, of course, but it doesn't jar at all.)
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 18 September 2019 18: 31
          +1
          I also have in my composition a little Tatar code, and just like you, I don’t Belmim. It's just that I was, back in Soviet times, a child, about four times two weeks, not enough to study, although my relatives tried to teach at least a few words ..., did not remain in my memory. hi
          1. Errr
            Errr 19 September 2019 05: 02
            0
            hi On the maternal side, I am from the Altai Old Believers, but I have never seen my Tatar (conditionally) grandfather in my life. he died back in 1938, long before my birth (he bathed in Katun in the ice drift, saving the collective farm cattle, earned bilateral pneumonia and hello). "Conditionally Tatar" because, judging by the photograph, he had epicanthus, and the surname ended in the characteristic "ulin", I still do not have exact information about his 100% "Tatar" character. And it would be nice to master the basics of the Turkic dialect simply for practical reasons for more or less intelligible communication with the Turks who do not know any languages ​​other than their own.)
            1. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 19 September 2019 18: 58
              +1
              In me, too, the Tatar on the paternal side from my grandmother got. But she lived with her grandfather in Elabuga, and I lived with my parents in the Latvian Liepaja. And so, by blood, I don't even know who I am, maybe Tatar or Russian, maybe Udmurt or "Ukrainian" lol , maybe a Latvian or a Swede, or maybe a German. Confused, in general. hi
              1. sharp-lad
                sharp-lad 19 September 2019 19: 00
                +1
                Pancake! You can’t write hohol to yourself! sad
                1. Errr
                  Errr 20 September 2019 05: 58
                  0
                  hi You can also write "chub", but better with our letters - "chub". lol drinks
            2. gsev
              gsev 21 September 2019 04: 23
              0
              Quote: Herrr
              And the basics of the Turkic dialect would be nice to master

              What is the problem of finding the necessary books in the electronic library and making acquaintance with native speakers on the Internet. Learning a language will be faster if you immediately set a goal to find out information available only in that language.
              1. Errr
                Errr 21 September 2019 04: 45
                0
                Personally, I absolutely need a living (in the full sense of the word) interlocutor. Without it - a complete seam. Yes, he only appears mainly in the Avsallar hotel or in the local bazaar no more than one short period of a year.) Here, it seems, I have absolutely no options. Apparently I’m completely unable to learn languages ​​remotely.
  7. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 17 September 2019 06: 38
    +8
    ... "He was 79 years old" ...
    Let's call a spade a spade - senility has covered the old man.
    The sad thing is that someone uses this case to escalate the situation in our already turbulent time!
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 17 September 2019 07: 26
      +1
      Quote: Retvizan 8
      senile senility covered the old man.

      And some even mentally thank him.
    2. Donetsk2019
      Donetsk2019 17 September 2019 10: 29
      +2
      Have you thought about the fabulous thing now?
    3. 16329
      16329 17 September 2019 18: 45
      +7
      None of this is insanity, Finno-Ugric themes have been unleashed for so many years since 15 -20, even in 90 all the walls in St. Petersburg were painted "Ingria-Karelia" in Gothic script, representatives of the "great powers" of Estonia and Hungary constantly speak at the congresses of Finno-Ugric peoples about the oppressed small peoples of Russia and the Finnish press does not ignore this topic.
      And Udmurtia, Perm Territory and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug are the most important economic regions of Russia, where the leading enterprises of the military-industrial complex and the fuel and energy complex are located, so that the "rise in national consciousness" of small nations in modern conditions can bring very unpleasant surprises and
      We must fight this with a combination of harsh repressive methods against local nationalist figures with support for the diversity of national cultures of the indigenous peoples of Russia, including Finno-Ugric peoples, emphasizing their kinship and genetic community with the Russians, a common history and responsibility for our state
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 September 2019 19: 01
        +9
        First of all, it is necessary to fight against NGOs.
        Finnish NGOs spend their days and nights in Karelia, carrying out destructive work with schoolchildren. Finns dream of joining Karelia to themselves.
      2. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 17 September 2019 21: 12
        0
        This must be combated by combining harsh repressive methods against local nationalist figures with support for the diversity of national cultures of the indigenous peoples of Russia, including Finno-Ugric peoples, emphasizing their kinship and genetic community with the Russians, a common history and responsibility for our state.
        good
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 19 September 2019 10: 14
        -1
        Quote: 16329
        And Udmurtia, Perm Territory and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug are the most important economic regions of Russia, where the leading enterprises of the military-industrial complex and fuel and energy complex are located,

        Udmurtia is generally a pure "defense industry", where it is impossible to manufacture products without knowledge of the Russian language, if only because of the technical documentation in Russian that enterprises use. I was in Sarapul many times and dealt with a radio factory - some of their military products were the best in the world. By the way, there was also a cropped division in Soviet times, which was formed on a local resource, and of course the Russian language is mandatory for recruits. So no matter how someone wanted to expand the use of the languages ​​of local peoples, it was physically impossible to do - Udmurtia is not an ethnic reserve with small peoples, but a region well integrated into the country's industry, where it is simply impossible to do without the Russian language.
  8. Rwmos
    Rwmos 17 September 2019 06: 47
    +23
    Actually, ordinary obscurantist. From the category of pseudo-linguists who deny neologisms and borrowings. Language is a developing structure, moreover, from which all linguists write in boiling water - this structure is not developed by linguists. Only Latin does not change, and then, there is something to say - the doctors of Latin just changed to awesome. Does not change. for the tongue is dead.
    And small languages ​​- you can’t say anything here - there is no application area - they are not available. And even the surcharge for knowing the language, as in the USSR, will not help here.
    1. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2019 11: 58
      +7
      That's right, RWMos, every 20 years, and now, apparently, more often literary words and expressions are recognized that are invented on the street or are redistributions of foreign words and expressions. For example, while reading comments and even articles, I often began to find that something I simply do not understand, my vocabulary is out of date, I have to search for the meanings of words on the Internet. The language is developing. And then let's learn Udmurt, which is probably rural and has nothing to do with modernity. This approach provokes the dense backwardness of the native speaker. This is beneficial to the local "elite", which does not need an enlightened, which means a priori a more thoughtful, critical of life people. And also to the paid liberals who are struggling to organize a small, manageable identity, followed by a small self-determination, which someone larger even will not drive into the reservation, will simply crush. And there are naive people who subscribe to it.
    2. Karabas
      Karabas 17 September 2019 19: 36
      +2
      And small languages ​​- you can’t say anything here - there is no application area - they are not available. And even the surcharge for knowing the language, as in the USSR, will not help here.

      And why then only consider languages? Skills and professions are also needed. We forgot how to knit bast shoes, plow on a horse with a plow, blur clay pots, track game in the tracks, knit stacks, play balalaika, harness a horse ... Where are we going ?! Nightmare! This is our culture! Spiritual braces! laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 18 September 2019 19: 42
        0
        Karabas, great! Laughing from the heart)) Yes, the sequence is displayed))
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 17 September 2019 06: 51
    0
    We must wait for the results of the investigation ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 17 September 2019 07: 42
      +4
      Such a death of a loved one is a grief for the family. This is not to be forgotten. Horror for life
  10. Oleg Badyulin
    Oleg Badyulin 17 September 2019 06: 52
    -32
    In Soviet Ukraine, the Ukrainian language was oppressed, I remember exactly, in cinemas films were only in Russian (Dnepropetrovsk region). But now move around "green light". Take a look at the faces of our Ukrainian intelligentsia - the creators of MOV in old photographs. These are beautiful inspired faces (you can also choose decent ones among the photos of Farion). They did not save, my beloved Muscovites, great mobile talent, you are far from Nenka, live in peace for now ...
    1. Shuttle
      Shuttle 17 September 2019 07: 01
      +23
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      In Soviet Ukraine, the Ukrainian language was oppressed, I remember, in the cinema films were only in Russian (Dnepropetrovsk region).

      Something I do not really believe is oppression. Moreover, the city founded by Russians in the state of Russia was actually Russian. Yes, and now much remains.
      And as the Bolsheviks Ukrainized Ukraine, even Vyatrovich could not do it.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 17 September 2019 07: 46
        +3
        It is not clear why there are so many Ukrainian detective stories in Russian, not only on the network, but on TV some kind of long one. Mom loves detective stories. But not Ukrainian.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 17 September 2019 07: 56
          +1
          Quote: Reptiloid
          It is not clear why there are so many Ukrainian detective stories in Russian, not only on the network, but on TV some kind of long one. Mom loves detective stories. But not Ukrainian.

          Forgot to write ----- modern detectives
    2. German Titov
      German Titov 17 September 2019 07: 49
      +21
      They were so oppressed that I studied him from the 2nd grade. Then he easily gave lectures in "one" language. But now in Slavyansk, they are trying to teach geometry to children. The "teacher" herself does not understand all the "crap" she is trying to convey to the children.
      1. Antares
        Antares 17 September 2019 09: 39
        +1
        Quote: German Titov
        So oppressed that I studied it from the 2 class

        with 4 class.
        All teachers were excellent. From ordinary to business (subjects) language.
        Quote: German Titov
        But now in Slavyansk, they are trying to teach geometry to children. The "teacher" herself does not understand all the "crap" she is trying to convey to the children.

        excesses as in Soviet times by Soviet administrative methods ..
        It is strange at the same time that these methods are faulty ..
        Quotas and admin methods are just "Totalitarian" methods. There is no smell of Europe.
        1. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky 17 September 2019 10: 19
          +11
          It seems to me all the same from the second, emnip. And also Ukrainian literature is more beautiful than zisty brick, lower teach Pavel Tychin ...
          And also the history of Ukraine.
          Well, to the heap ... the available literature is exclusively in Ukrainian. It’s almost impossible to buy any Dumas or Jules Verne in Russian - there’s a shortage, go take the waste paper wink
          And in Ukrainian, please, freely lies in a bookstore. Just do not need anyone. The Ukrainians themselves did not want to read Ukrainian, and of course Muscovites were to blame for this. sad
          1. creak
            creak 17 September 2019 16: 42
            +6
            Quote: Beringovsky
            It seems to me all the same from the second, emnip. And also Ukrainian literature is more beautiful than zisty brick, lower teach Pavel Tychin ...
            And also the history of Ukraine.
            Well, to the heap ... the available literature is exclusively in Ukrainian. It’s almost impossible to buy any Dumas or Jules Verne in Russian - there’s a shortage, go take the waste paper wink
            And in Ukrainian, please, freely lies in a bookstore. Just do not need anyone. The Ukrainians themselves did not want to read Ukrainian, and of course Muscovites were to blame for this. sad

            As for oppression, it is also someone who oppressed whom. An example from a distant youth - my father after the Frunze Academy was sent to KVO, Poltava region. And I had from scratch in the fifth grade (the school was Russian), nevertheless, I began to study the Ukrainian language and literature without fail. He finished school in Ukraine - a certificate in two languages, Russian and Ukrainian.
            It was depressing the consciousness of the unnecessary cost of time and effort to study what would never be useful in such volumes, since my father was sent to serve in the district on the territory of the RSFSR after graduation.
            "And Tychin is taller than verse, that all girsche, that all girsche, that all yak," - there was such a parody of the opuses of the official poet Number One - Tychina.
            And poems really were extremely mediocre.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 17 September 2019 18: 18
              +2
              Quote: ranger
              Quote: Beringovsky
              It seems to me all the same from the second, emnip. And also Ukrainian literature is more beautiful than zisty brick, lower teach Pavel Tychin ...
              And also the history of Ukraine.
              Well, to the heap ... the available literature is exclusively in Ukrainian. It’s almost impossible to buy any Dumas or Jules Verne in Russian - there’s a shortage, go take the waste paper wink
              And in Ukrainian, please, freely lies in a bookstore. Just do not need anyone. The Ukrainians themselves did not want to read Ukrainian, and of course Muscovites were to blame for this. sad

              As for oppression, it is also someone who oppressed whom. An example from a distant youth - my father after the Frunze Academy was sent to KVO, Poltava region. And I had from scratch in the fifth grade (the school was Russian), nevertheless, I began to study the Ukrainian language and literature without fail. He finished school in Ukraine - a certificate in two languages, Russian and Ukrainian.
              It was depressing the consciousness of the unnecessary cost of time and effort to study what would never be useful in such volumes, since my father was sent to serve in the district on the territory of the RSFSR after graduation.
              "And Tychin is taller than verse, that all girsche, that all girsche, that all yak," - there was such a parody of the opuses of the official poet Number One - Tychina.
              And poems really were extremely mediocre.

              Praise be to Allah that when my father was transferred to ZakVO, I did not have to learn either Georgian or Azerbaijani! laughing drinks
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 17 September 2019 18: 38
              +1
              Quote: ranger
              An example from a distant youth - my father after the Frunze Academy was sent to KVO, Poltava region. And I had from scratch in the fifth grade (the school was Russian), nevertheless, I began to study the Ukrainian language and literature without fail.

              If to be objective to the end, then the children of officers could avoid learning the Ukrainian language in the Russian-language school of Ukraine. To do this, you just had to write a statement to the local RONO and justify that you are not going to stay in Ukraine after the end of the service. At least in our class, not everyone went to classes in Ukrainian without fail - several people were released, especially in high school.
              1. sharp-lad
                sharp-lad 17 September 2019 21: 31
                +3
                In our Latvian Union Socialist Republic, not a single child of officers has been released from studying Latvian in a Russian school. However, oppressors of Latvians and annihilators of Latvian culture. belay
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 18 September 2019 11: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: sharp-lad
                  In our Latvian Union Socialist Republic, not a single child of officers has been released from studying Latvian in a Russian school.

                  It’s hard for me to believe this, because any language cannot be studied along with the whole class if you did not hold the primer in your hands, and came to study, for example, in the 7-9 class in the republics of the former USSR. Another thing is that from the point of view of discipline, they were sometimes not allowed to leave classes in the language of the national republics, but no one could force them to pass exams or attest. My classmate studied Uzbek until the fifth grade, and when she came to school with the Ukrainian language, she was released from school. But the Uzbek came in handy for her - when the Crimean Tatars returned to Crimea, she understood their speech well.
                  1. creak
                    creak 18 September 2019 12: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Quote: sharp-lad
                    In our Latvian Union Socialist Republic, not a single child of officers has been released from studying Latvian in a Russian school.

                    It’s hard for me to believe this, because any language cannot be studied along with the whole class if you did not hold the primer in your hands, and came to study, for example, in the 7-9 class in the republics of the former USSR. Another thing is that from the point of view of discipline, they were sometimes not allowed to leave classes in the language of the national republics, but no one could force them to pass exams or attest. My classmate studied Uzbek until the fifth grade, and when she came to school with the Ukrainian language, she was released from school. But the Uzbek came in handy for her - when the Crimean Tatars returned to Crimea, she understood their speech well.

                    Do you think that what I wrote in my comment above was a dream? It looks like you are new to some of the realities of life in the Union - and studied and passed the exams. It came to scandals, but at least to my trip to Russia, this issue was never officially resolved. I passed the exams in Ukrainian language and literature ..
                    .
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 18 September 2019 13: 02
                      -1
                      Quote: ranger
                      Do you think that what I wrote in my comment above was a dream?

                      You simply might not know all the details.
                      Quote: ranger
                      It looks like you are new to some of the realities of life in the Union - and studied and passed the exams.

                      I think that I knew the realities well, since I have a school certificate in two languages. By the way, in my family I studied Ukrainian from the second grade, but my brother and sister were exempted from studying it.
                  2. sharp-lad
                    sharp-lad 18 September 2019 18: 35
                    +1
                    Yes, they were released from exams and examinations, and they were not really forced to teach, but they gave the very least. hi
    3. Serg65
      Serg65 17 September 2019 08: 16
      +14
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      Take a look at the faces of our Ukrainian intelligentsia, the creators of Mova in old photographs. These are beautiful, inspired faces.

      Well, yes ... Comrade Kaganovich Lazar Moiseevich has a truly spiritual person !!!
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      I remember exactly, in cinemas, films were only in Russian

      So throughout the Union, films in cinemas were in Russian .... and only Ukrainian was oppressed .. what Well it is necessary !!!!!!
      1. NKT
        NKT 17 September 2019 09: 12
        +6
        Well, yes ... Comrade Kaganovich Lazar Moiseevich has a truly spiritual person !!!


        And then!









      2. 16329
        16329 17 September 2019 19: 18
        +4
        In Estonia, in 1970s, cinemas watched films in Estonian, both Tallinnfilm film studios and dubbed foreign films.
        Estonian television is only Estonian, in Russian there is only one program per day 30 min. Actual Camera, in Ukraine - Ukrainian TV in Ukrainian, all signs in Ukrainian (Chernihiv), names in Ukrainian, etc.
        The only English school (English from second grade) is Ukrainian.
        By the way in Estonia - Estonian schools were 11 summer, and Russian - 10 summer (before the school reform, the beginning of 80x
        In Russian schools Estonian was taught with 3 class
        I spent my 10 classes in Pskov (RSFSR) - Tallinn (ESSR) - Chernigov (USSR) - Apatity (RSFSR)
        The educational systems in the republics differed significantly, the number of exams was different, in Ukraine they passed exams every year from 5 to 10 classes, in Russia in 8 and 10 classes, in Estonia in 6, 8 and 10 classes
        Everywhere they were bombarded with national languages, and in Ukraine also with literature, the Union did a lot for the development of national cultures, but it did not happen to him, unfortunately, Ukrainians and Ukrainians wanted Europe and let them now receive it in full, in full and in all places .
    4. Skarpzd
      Skarpzd 17 September 2019 08: 31
      +9
      In Soviet Ukraine, the Ukrainian language was oppressed, I remember, in the cinema films were only in Russian (Dnepropetrovsk region).

      Yes Yes. began military service in Pavlograd. When I happened to get into the library - I was stunned !!! a myriad of books, for which in my native Siberian city it’s the turn to record for months, freely stood on the shelves !!! and only taking them in hand understood - yes they are in Ukrainian !!! and stood on the shelves only because no one took them !!! harassment ??? but what about. on fih no one needed them. and Russian-language options in the same way - in turn. I had to learn the Ukrainian language according to the book of Peter 1))).
      1. Antares
        Antares 17 September 2019 09: 42
        +4
        Quote: Skarpzd
        I had to learn the Ukrainian language according to the book of Peter 1

        Wow...
        I will not read Tolstoy in the Ukrainian translation ... The beauty of this book in revolutions (old words)
        Ukrainian read, there were interesting books. But global languages ​​are better than local.
        English, French Spanish, Russian ...
        you need to know of course the local. All the same, state. But for self-development you need to know as many languages ​​as possible.
    5. Rwmos
      Rwmos 17 September 2019 08: 34
      0
      Tell me more ... Although, in general - fairy tales are usually read at night - and for children. For example, there was such a thing that science fiction was normal - in Ukraine only in Ukrainian, and you will find it - in Russian the whole circulation went away, but in Ukrainian they weren’t sold out - that’s why it was free. Boy, here there are plenty of people at the age - go, heap up spuds - the portal made a mistake
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 17 September 2019 09: 10
        +3
        I recommend to all "oppressed" to read "Aeneid" in Ukrainian translated by Kotlyarevsky, have fun.
        1. Antares
          Antares 17 September 2019 09: 44
          +2
          Quote: AK1972
          I recommend to all "oppressed" to read "Aeneid" in Ukrainian translated by Kotlyarevsky, have fun.

          What for?
          There is a cartoon.

          Caution + 18. Censored Expressions.
          propaganda of alcohol, tobacco, and easy relationships .. wassat
    6. Ptolemy Lag
      Ptolemy Lag 17 September 2019 10: 09
      0
      How could oppress the Ukrainian language in Dneprozhidovsk ???
    7. AAK
      AAK 17 September 2019 13: 01
      +4
      Under the USSR, even in the Crimea, in secondary school, the Ukrainian language was taught from the 2nd grade to the 10th, he taught himself ... well, I can only wish for amateurs and "pre-seen fakhivtsy at the Galuzi charivnoi movi" ... live ... while -what ... "Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania remember you ...
    8. revnagan
      revnagan 17 September 2019 13: 01
      +5
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      In Soviet Ukraine, the Ukrainian language was oppressed, I remember exactly

      In the Ukrainian SSR it was possible to freely buy works by Dumas or Jules Verne, but only ... in the Ukrainian language, and the books were printed even in Moldova! Many thousands of copies. But for some reason everyone chased after the Russian text ... And "Kobzary" in Ukrainian in my family had 3 pieces.
    9. ccsr
      ccsr 17 September 2019 13: 41
      +7
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      In Soviet Ukraine, the Ukrainian language was oppressed, I remember, in the cinema films were only in Russian (Dnepropetrovsk region).

      Lies of pure water - for nine years I studied the Ukrainian language at school, took exams in the Ukrainian language and literature, even though I am a Russian. In the bookstores there were blockages of books and textbooks in the Ukrainian language, but even the Ukrainians did not buy them very well. As for the films in Ukrainian, they were, but the people did not want to buy tickets for them, and because of this, the distributors refused them.
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      Take a look at the faces of our Ukrainian intelligentsia, the creators of Mova in old photographs. These are beautiful, inspired faces (you can also choose decent ones among the photos of Farion).

      I saw enough of these "spiritualized faces" on the slopes of the Dnieper in the Pechersk region in the seventies - self-satisfied in their obstinacy people who still believe that only Ukrainians can be the best in the world, although whoever encountered them in life knows how wrong they are about their "merits".
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      You didn’t save, my beloved Muscovites, a great talented talent, far from you even to Nenko, live calmly for now ...

      Yes, we do not seem to care, although the "talented" Ukrainian people usually do not pay the bills to Russia, which is why we consider you ordinary swindlers who speculate on "Ukraine".
      1. Alexey Z
        Alexey Z 18 September 2019 20: 42
        0
        From 1985 to 1990 he lived in Belarus, for the locals there were compulsory Belarusian language and literature, for us in the same school - only literature.
    10. vadimtt
      vadimtt 19 September 2019 07: 12
      +1
      Yes, VO with sarcasm is really bad bully
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 19 September 2019 10: 00
        -2
        Quote: vadimtt
        Yes, VO with sarcasm is really bad

        Not sarcasm is bad, but the ambiguity of the text is puzzling. So the author is reaping "laurels" ...
    11. gsev
      gsev 21 September 2019 04: 32
      0
      Quote: Oleg Badyulin
      Farion

      In feudal Russia, eminent people could be called by their full name. Common people were obliged to refer to themselves in documents derogatoryly as Ivashki. I was surprised, was it really that the graduate of the Lviv Philological University didn’t understand that by refusing the Ukrainians to call themselves Ivan and Petra, they denied them the right to equal rights with the clever panes.
      1. svp67
        svp67 21 September 2019 04: 39
        0
        Quote: gsev
        I was surprised, was it really that the graduate of the Lviv Philological University didn’t understand

        Or maybe it's enough to stop "being surprised" and it's time to understand that all she and others like her UNDERSTAND and say, and most importantly, they do everything consciously
  11. Non liberoid Russian
    Non liberoid Russian 17 September 2019 06: 57
    +11
    how many times was passing through Udmurtia, and stopped in Izhevsk and Votkinsk, and in the villages, as I did not notice the need for people in the national language, everything was in Russian tryndely ... like one grandmother who was selling gifts of nature on the highway said that it’s more convenient to Russian and more familiar, in Udmurt only if on holidays and even in a remote village they say
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 17 September 2019 07: 01
    +1
    It is not normal.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 17 September 2019 07: 47
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      It is not normal.

      why didn’t you think about loved ones. They like this for a lifetime to remember.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 September 2019 08: 17
        +2
        Hi Dmitry soldier
        Man is too often selfish in his actions!
        Besides age is not small. In such a period, everything hidden earlier ..... appears.
  13. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    +1
    1. A meaningless act of self-immolation. Although, there could be internal reasons inaccessible to others.
    I know a few cases of suecid by patients. whose pain was unbearable.
    I know the case of a young Udmurt who hanged himself to his wife’s joy because his wife gave him horns.
    2. For religious Muslim, Hindu, Taoist countries of the East, such acts are periodic.
    Group self-immolation in Beijing - self-immolation of several people on the Chinese New Year's Day, 23 January 2001 of the year at 14: 40 on Tiananmen Square. .
    Just now, in Iran, a woman who was persecuted by the authorities for ... attending a football match carried out an act of self-immolation. https://pikabu.ru/story/iranskaya_zhenshchina_sovershila_samosozhzhenie_izza_zapreta_na_poseshchenie_futbolnyikh_matchey_6923744?cid=149497407
    3. The author has two opposite trends:
    3.1. Author: “As a person who is worried about the state of the Russian language, he can quite understand those who are worried about another dialect -“ small, but his ...
    3.2. But we can’t endlessly go on about all kinds of local nationalists either. ”
    - There is no close relationship between the desire to use your language in a country where there are no such prohibitions, and the desire to profess the language as an instrument of struggle by nationalists, no.
    This is only one of the nationalist instruments manipulated by the masses.
    In this case,
    3.3. Author: "We are so afraid of offending the national minority with the question" Do you need your language? " or research on its functionality, flexibility, ability to more or less fully convey the picture of the modern world! "
    - Why do you, Mr. Kuzovkov, ask such questions? 200 of the peoples of Russia have the opportunity in the current conditions to determine this for themselves.
    4. Author: “Otherwise, big problems are possible, as, for example, with Ukraine. For decades, there has been no competent and honest linguist who would demand that one of the dialects of Russian be stopped as a separate language ... "
    - Even non-linguists know that Bulgarian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Belarusian are closer to the Old Church Slavonic, pre-Petrine language. In different philological traditions, it is also called - ancient Church Slavonic, ancient Slavic, ancient or old Bulgarian. M. Lomonosov called it "Slavism". The appearance of the language is associated with the names of the Greek enlighteners Cyril and Methodius. First, the language had the alphabet "Glagolitic", then "Cyrillic". In Russia, its spread is associated with the adoption of Christianity (988). Linguists classify the Old Slavic language as a South Slavic group, which also includes: Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian, Slovenian. It can be argued that the Old Slavonic language is most similar to the modern ones: Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian and Slovene.
    In the Russian version, the "Old Church Slavonic" language was called "Church Slavonic". Literature in Church Slavonic can be found today. Divine services are held there.
    It was the reforms of Peter 1 that served to change the Russian language in the direction of distance from the above-mentioned Slavic ones. The arrangement of a new dialect in Peter's and post-Peter's times begins with the creation of a new civil type, and spelling here turns out to be a mirror of culture. The opposition of the old and new orthography by Peter 1 establishes the semiotic delimitation of cultural spheres, which is the basis for the functional distribution of the traditional (Church Slavonic) and new ("simple") literary language.
    https://www.philol.msu.ru/~rki/alphabet/petr_reform.html
    Therefore, to affirm. that Bulgarian, Slovenian, Ukrainian, Belarusian there are dialects of the Russian language, is wrong.
    5. A strange trend has arisen among many VO commentators:
    5.1. Russian nationalism is good, but Ukrainian, Tatar, Bashkir, Udmurt, Kalmyk, Caucasian, Baltic. Yakut, Jewish, etc. is bad.
    5.2 .. Nationalism is definitely bad for the integrity of the state, for example, Ros. Empire, Sov. Union, and their fragments, Ros. Federation.
    For the nationalists destroyed the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, their fragments, and today the nationalists are breaking up the Russian Empire. Federation!
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 17 September 2019 09: 17
      +4
      I agree. But the question arose. What language is physics taught in Israel? And why are the Jews tormented?
    2. Begemot
      Begemot 17 September 2019 11: 18
      +13
      There were two main Udmurts: Kuzma Kulikov and Albert Razin. Both were favored by the authorities as cultural and scientific figures of the indigenous people of the federation subject. The institutes of the Udmurt language and literature and the institute of man were created for them, the budget was quite so encouraging and optimistic, therefore the Udmurt language, apparently, had no oppression, and developed at an unprecedented pace. Kuzma Kulikov, it should be noted that although he’s a funny guy (he made people laugh more than once with tricks and phrases), he’s quite adequate and doesn’t introduce him on national grounds so that he is very, very active and smart enough to promote his ideas and not come into conflict with the community, both national and international. But Razin is an extremist, he could not imagine that the compulsory study of indigenous indigenous languages ​​in schools is utter stupidity, moreover, quite expensive, and most importantly, the southern, northern, central Udmurts speak different languages ​​- which one to study , and then where to use this knowledge, say to a Tatar or a Mari who lived in childhood in Udmurtia, and later went to the vast expanses of Russia? He was thrown constantly to extremes. When he lost his finances, in my opinion, one of the key causes of psychological problems was perceived as oppression of the language, apparently he associated himself with something more than a pensioner who was sent on a well-deserved rest. Sure, this is a tragedy, but it was his choice. The question is how to relate to this. I do not approve of his choice, either in terms of manifestation or motivation.
    3. pru-pavel
      pru-pavel 17 September 2019 11: 26
      +4
      You probably said a lot of the right things except the Bulgarian one. Modern Bulgarian is a wild mixture of the Old Bulgarian language with dead inflections, endings and cases, with partial preservation of both Old Slavonic synthetic verb tenses, and with the acquisition, most likely from the Greek, of many analytical constructions and articles, and with a considerable layer of Turkic vocabulary, which they tried so hard and could not clean. By and large, modern Bulgarian is very far from any Slavic language. in its grammar, although it is close lexically. It is also worth adding that the pre-Petrine language was also quite Russian. Just Russian was then only verbal. Written was essentially the same Church Slavonic (Old Bulgarian). Peter the first simply ordered to start writing as they speak verbally. By and large, Pushkin very zealously took advantage of his advice, whom we now consider one of the main creators of the modern Russian language.
    4. gsev
      gsev 21 September 2019 04: 46
      0
      Quote: Lieutenant Colonel of the USSRF Air Force in reserve
      It was the reforms of Peter 1 that served to change the Russian language in the direction of estrangement from the above-mentioned Slavic.

      And how did Peter's reforms affect the separation of Bulgarian, Serbian and Slovenian languages? Are they much further from each other than the Russian is from them? In our historical time, the languages ​​of Koreans from South Korea, North Korea and those living on the territory of the USSR began to differ more from each other than Ukrainian and Russian. For example, it is known that the Czech language was created anew by the "awakening" movement. The language is changing. Now even the laws of changing languages ​​are being discovered, which are already historical tools for verifying the authenticity of documents and historical theories.
  14. Alex66
    Alex66 17 September 2019 07: 03
    +13
    The national question is one of the most difficult, but the problem of the nationalists is that they do not understand, they are alive as long as there are the Russian people, the people who respect and recognize them as equal, there will be no Russians and the fate of the American Indians awaits them.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 17 September 2019 07: 32
      +3
      Quote: Alex66
      they are alive as long as there are Russian people,

      So it is the Russians that are dying rapidly ..
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 17 September 2019 08: 05
        +3
        Not faster than the Germans, and certainly slower than the well-fed and "technological" Japanese.
    2. protoss
      protoss 17 September 2019 10: 24
      -3
      Quote: Alex66
      the problem of the nationalists is that they do not understand, they are alive as long as there are Russian people

      tell it to the Karelians if you find the living in Karelia.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 17 September 2019 18: 34
        +3
        I had a fighter in my army, a Karelian nationality. The surname is rather Finnish. And as slow as a Finn in everyday life. But in the classroom is quick and agile. And if you piss off - like a mad elk. The hair is pale red, eyes are gray. Karelian? So there, where he was called from, was pretty much in the 80's.
        1. protoss
          protoss 17 September 2019 22: 07
          -2
          almost gone, look at the official statistics as they numerically declined from the middle of the last century. the holocaust is resting.
  15. steelmaker
    steelmaker 17 September 2019 07: 48
    +24
    For some reason, nationalists present all these claims only to Russians. And for some reason, Russians, according to their concepts, should deal with their language and culture. And they should only indicate and impose their point of view. When I said this to a friend of the Tatar, a drunk argument arose, he even fell into a stupor. Who's stopping you from speaking your native language? Go and organize! So it’s necessary to work, spend your free time and money! And the Russians have already built and organized everything, it’s easier to take and force. This is the logic of the dumb. And such a logic must be immediately and firmly nipped in the bud, they don’t understand otherwise. And with our friend Tatar, we are now like brothers.
  16. EvilLion
    EvilLion 17 September 2019 08: 07
    +4
    Obviously, even before senility, man was insane. Unless, of course, staged.
  17. Dedok
    Dedok 17 September 2019 08: 16
    -2
    Quote: samarin1969
    Suicide is condemned by both believers and atheists.


    But what about the Old Believers?
    self-immolation as a protest of the new faith planted by the king?
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 17 September 2019 08: 32
      -1
      Quote: Dedok
      But what about the Old Believers?

      But they are not believers and not atheists? Who? laughing
    2. gsev
      gsev 21 September 2019 04: 51
      0
      Quote: Dedok
      self-immolation as a protest of the new faith planted by the king?

      It seems that the top officers of the Swedish garrison of Noteburg also had Russian names. And Peter fought with the partisan Old Believers on the Baltic coast.
  18. Boris55
    Boris55 17 September 2019 08: 31
    +3
    Nationalism is what will tear multinational Russia to pieces.
    Remember when there were 15 independents, but now they, without them, are already 24.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 17 September 2019 18: 37
      +2
      Russia will not be torn apart by nationalism, but global imperialism, and nationalism is only one of the performers.
      After the collapse of the USSR, this was to be expected.
  19. sergo1914
    sergo1914 17 September 2019 08: 50
    +12
    "Graduated in 1962 from the Udmurt State Pedagogical Institute, specializing in"chemistry and biology teacher". He was one of the founders of the laboratory of national relations of Udmurt State University (Udmurt State University). In 1992, he participated in the creation of the Human Institute of Udmurt State University, was its director until the staff was almost completely reduced.
    Worked on "health promotion by drug-free methods».
    PhD in Philosophy, thesis topic "The problem of the formation of the personality of a rural worker". Docent.
    Since the beginning of the 1990's, Razin became a prominent figure in Udmurt neopaganism, organized and participated in prayers in sacred groves, called himself “a shaman of the ancient Tuno tradition.” He conducted Udmurt pagan rituals in the Goat Park of Izhevsk with animal sacrifices. To promote his teachings, he founded the society of the Udmurt culture "Demen". He called on the Udmurts to return to the origins of pagan religion.
    Razin was an activist of the Udmurt movement "Udmurt Kenesh", advocated for the study of the Udmurt language by children and prepared an appeal to the deputies of the State Council entitled "The Udmurt ethnos is disappearing", urging not to allow the adoption of a bill on the voluntary study of national languages, which could lead to a decrease in the number of native speakers . "

    Above is some information about this friend. Characterizing.
    IMHO. Someone will argue that the name "Albert" is originally Udmurt? And the surname "Razin"? If you are such a patriot and insist on compulsory language learning (all my non-Russian acquaintances calmly pass on knowledge of the language to children in the family, and no specialized schools are needed) - rename. Take the traditional Udmurt first and last name. And it turns out somehow strange. Plus shamanism. In the nineties, many mentally stable and all mentally unstable went to all mysticism and esotericism. But before the sacrifices - it must be seriously stubborn.
    And finally. It is necessary to fight with what is forbidden. And to fight with the fact that in itself dies ... Well, I'll start to fight with cast-iron rails. For our ancestors bequeathed to us wooden. Yes, and horse drawn. So what? Are wooden rails prohibited? Does the criminal and administrative code penalize non-use of wooden rails? Should I burn myself?
    1. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2019 12: 15
      +6
      If someone naive demands to legalize wooden rails, then some tricky woodworker needs this.
  20. vanavatny
    vanavatny 17 September 2019 09: 07
    +6
    he would distribute matches with gasoline to all these activists of national movements ... and his grandfather would simply become soft with his brain, and not yesterday, he should take care of a close doctor and psychiatrist, and not be touched by how his grandfather practices his favorite hobby, losing his sense of reality
  21. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter 17 September 2019 09: 29
    +3
    Evono as .... widely discussed.
    For the first time I read about it.
  22. Antares
    Antares 17 September 2019 09: 34
    +1
    as, for example, with Ukraine.

    in all cases, the authors are looking for a connection with Ukraine ..
    Everywhere it seems, some sort of paranoia.
    Everywhere to blame, everywhere mentioned ..
    Nationalism is not a Ukrainian invention at all. In Russia, nationalism is much older and much more developed.
    The attempt to attribute Ukraine everywhere is an attempt to blame their own problems on the neighbors.
    Self-immolation was also encountered in Ukraine. Both the military and the protesters ..
    There were no such scientists.
    One form of protest and attract attention in the world. Not a Ukrainian invention.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 17 September 2019 09: 46
      +1
      Quote: Antares
      Self-immolation in Ukraine also met

      In the Odessa House of Trade Unions? So, after all, your government has explained its own crimes.
      1. Antares
        Antares 17 September 2019 09: 54
        0
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Antares
        Self-immolation in Ukraine also met

        In the Odessa House of Trade Unions? So, after all, your government has explained its own crimes.

        no.
        I'm talking about single actions under the walls of state institutions
        sad events of may-still investigate
        and this has nothing to do with the topic.
        As they like to say in such cases, the case happened in the Russian Federation; the Russian citizen has no relation to another country
        if it weren’t for the author, Ukraine would not have been rinsed by half the discussion
        and thought about. Russia
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 17 September 2019 10: 00
          0
          Quote: Antares
          no.

          Well, no - and no trial.
  23. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    +2
    Quote: Silhouette
    I agree. But the question arose. What language is physics taught in Israel? And why are the Jews tormented?

    You have hit the mark. My daughter is suffering and teaches physics and computer science in Hebrew. But this is because her native languages ​​are Russian and Ukrainian. If she had studied Hebrew from childhood, and not from 20 years old, she would not have had such torments. They have their own "native" terms. But this is the cost of striving to create your own language.
    The same trends were and are in the countries of the former USSR. In my opinion, this is an excess.
    So you can get to the simplest borrowed words, like a bucket, shoe, chest ...
    In the history of the Russian language periods of preferential borrowing were replaced:
    from Germanic languages ​​and Latin (pre-Slavic period);
    Finno-Ugric and Baltic (first of all place names, as a result of resettlement to Eastern Europe);
    from Greek, Hebrew, and then the Old / Church Slavonic language (the era of Christianization, further book influence);
    from Turkic languages ​​(throughout history);
    from the Polish language (XVI — XVIII centuries) - polonisms;
    from the Dutch (XVIII), German and French (XVIII — XIX centuries) languages;
    from the English language (from the beginning of the 20th century).
    I am against changing established terminologies. Especially if the language simply does not have synonyms for this phenomenon, the device. Of course, you can start from scratch, first invent and choose terms, but specialists from different languages ​​will completely cease to understand each other, for example, this is impossible for doctors, programmers and other scientific, technical and humanitarian and other professions.
    In the national republics and regions of Russia there is an opportunity to study, speak their own language and study their culture
    1. Avior
      Avior 17 September 2019 10: 44
      +1
      In physics and other technical sciences in Russian and most other languages, most of the terms are foreign borrowings.
      Those who worked actively in a certain field established the terms and they became international.
      I suspect, Hebrew is not much different in this respect from other languages
      1. pru-pavel
        pru-pavel 17 September 2019 11: 17
        +1
        Normal languages ​​borrow everything actively if it matches their internal structure. Recovered languages ​​invent their words. The very nearly dead Czech really does not like borrowing - for example, they have a stewardess - a flyer. The Chinese language borrows almost nothing, due to the peculiarities of phonetics and hieroglyphic writing, well, probably the mentality also influences it.
        1. Avior
          Avior 17 September 2019 17: 12
          +1
          I'm specifically about technical terminology, it is either with a Latin basis, or from the language of the one who developed this section of science or technology
          1. pru-pavel
            pru-pavel 17 September 2019 21: 17
            +1
            Here, too, everything is quite individual. In Chinese, they come up with their own terminology. but it’s different there. There is no phonetic writing. So you have to write with existing hieroglyphs that do not allow you to borrow directly
      2. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
        0
        I don’t know Hebrew, but I looked, the TELEPHONE is the same, while others with an English origin are PRINTER, CALCULATOR, COMPUTER, FORM, SECRETARY, STEWARDS AS ITS.
        I read somewhere. that with the introduction of the Hebrew language in the 20 century, they widely tried to enter their names.
        It was a dead tongue.
        1. Avior
          Avior 17 September 2019 17: 20
          +3
          I'm talking about a narrower terminology, transistor, posistor, spin, and more.
          Not to mention volts or amperes.
          transistor
          posistor
          spin
          bisector
          radius
          diameter
          reducer

          typed and translated into hebrew google
          transistor
          פוזיסטור
          hanging around
          ביזקטור
          radius
          diameter
          תיבת הילוכים

          why didn’t I understand, and did the reverse translation smile
          transistor
          Fozistor
          Unfolds
          Bizktor
          radius
          diameter
          Transmission

          the result is controversial.
          and why is there no one in the branch from Israel when they are needed?
          Are they not interested in the problems of Udmurdia? what
          1. depressant
            depressant 17 September 2019 19: 09
            0
            Laughing, can't stop ... Thanks, Avior!
          2. The comment was deleted.
  24. Vadim Golubkov
    Vadim Golubkov 17 September 2019 10: 02
    +8
    My relatives live in Izhevsk, I was in Izhevsk, my aunt married an Udmurt at one time, 2 cousins ​​get half an Udmurt, so my sisters and their father are Udmurt by nationality, I call him Uncle Arkasha, they spar only in Russian and Udmurt they don’t know and were not going to teach, although no one forbids. And there are many of them. And these are some kind of radicals as sectarians.
  25. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 17 September 2019 10: 22
    +3
    For decades, there is no competent and honest linguist

    Linguists can understand for themselves - they are illiterate and lie laughing
    Kuzovkov said.
  26. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 17 September 2019 10: 31
    +3
    In my opinion, what happened is the result of dementia, "wrapped" in a wrapper of protest
    1. depressant
      depressant 17 September 2019 13: 12
      +4
      Yes, dementia at this age is quite possible. A neighbor from the ground floor, she's in her late 80s, accused me of hacking her TV from the phone, and he died. I, of course, at first lost the gift of speech, and when I regained it, I just could not find words to convince her. A neighbor from the apartment opposite, of the same age, was once a decent plumber, perhaps, he remained so understanding in his business, but everyone unanimously claims that for some time now he has not so much repaired, but caused hidden harm, so that immediately was not noticeable. And he knew that he would not be invited to correct his deed - someone else would be found, but he did the dirty trick anyway. Now no one invites him. So he, out of "love of art", arbitrarily climbed into our basement, connected something with something, and the newly renovated apartment on the first floor was filled to the ankles with waste from the toilet bowl. And the owners were on vacation! Then they returned ... What was there, it's difficult to describe. The commission sorted it out, and the terrorist plumber was exposed. Well, we have to observe a lot of this. So Razin, apparently, is no exception. And all would be fine, but they use such. It can be assumed that they will really make a sacred sacrifice out of him. Maybe not now, but for some reason it seems to me that this surname will emerge over time.
  27. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    -1
    Quote: Boris55
    Nationalism is what will tear multinational Russia to pieces.
    Remember when there were 15 independents, but now they, without them, are already 24.

    So did the Russian Empire scatter in national apartments.
    Then the Bolsheviks collected.
  28. Alexander Ra
    Alexander Ra 17 September 2019 14: 08
    0
    Question to critics of nationalism, what are you standing on? On the "universal values"? But they are not in nature - this is an empty concept, since there are no general people, like there are no general trees, etc. .. But no one bothers you, going up to the pine tree in the forest and threatening it with your finger, saying: “Pine is bad” . Does the pine tree honor the answer?
  29. NF68
    NF68 17 September 2019 15: 56
    +1
    Horrible death.
  30. Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 17 September 2019 18: 50
    +2
    Let's be frank, Russia does not deal with its history and language professionally. like other great countries. The nation-wide mentality is backward from other peoples, which were previously put on the brink and therefore took seriously all national issues. Russia is a great state and did not stand on the brink. When I was engaged in the restoration of my family, it turned out that in the villages of grandfathers they did not even know what their great-grandfathers were. Compare with the Jews who are real if their pedigree is not less than one and a half thousand years. Much would be clarified and there would be no speculation. Shame. Third forces take advantage of this and breed people like kittens. Not good. If not for the damned evil west, they would have been blown away a long time ago. Trump and his predecessors should be thanked not only for the sanctions.
  31. Oleg (Kharkov)
    Oleg (Kharkov) 17 September 2019 20: 59
    +3
    "He was 79 years old"
    at this age you can leave beautifully. plus we can diagnose oncology ...
  32. Suhow
    Suhow 17 September 2019 21: 09
    +1
    Creepy ... and sorry for the old man.
  33. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 17 September 2019 22: 20
    +1
    Quote: Karabas
    Candidate of Philosophy, scientist ...
    As far as I know the topic of his dissertation: Trends in the social structure of the rural population of the Udmurt Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic at the stage of developed socialism. And it was written in the year 1979. The topic is possible and relevant for the 1979 year, but only for the light of science something does not pull much. And after the collapse of the USSR, it hit into aculism, isotericism, and neo-paganism.
  34. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 17 September 2019 22: 35
    +1
    I don’t know how it is now, but in the 1999 year, the Udmurt language, in my opinion, did not pretend at all. The newspaper was exactly what it was. The problem with the Udmurt language is not that the evil authorities oppress it. And in reducing the need for it among the first of all Udmurts.
    And the grandfather was touched by the mind in the absence of the leading and directing force of Soviet society.
  35. iouris
    iouris 17 September 2019 23: 33
    +1
    It’s not very clear what is the problem? I believe not in language, but in politics. The national question needs to be resolved in your family. In any case, a scientist in an adequate mental state could not do so. The investigation should answer the question about the reasons for the terrible end. Let's wait.
  36. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    0
    Quote: Boris55
    Nationalism is what will tear multinational Russia to pieces.
    Remember when there were 15 independents, but now they, without them, are already 24.

    So Grew. empire is the same.
  37. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Ra
    I consider myself not a Man as a part of Humanity, not a "man of the world", but primarily a Russian man and I value this image ..

    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------
    Do you think that a Russian person must certainly be a Nazi (onalist) and (neo) pagan?
    What kind of classic Russian are you, if we assume that you are an adherent of the Egyptian God Ra and other (neo) pagan views? But what about "Faith, Tsar and Patronymic"?
    Who told you that internationalism will certainly cancel national self-determination?
  38. Vasily
    Vasily 18 September 2019 10: 22
    +1
    As for the language: my elder lives in the states with 98. The first wife is Korean, the son speaks only English, the second wife is Chinese, and her two children are neither Russian nor Chinese. Yes, and he speaks Russian is no longer great.
    The middle one lives in Sweden, married to an ethnic German. Children (twins) are considered native and speak Russian, German and Swedish. Moreover, among themselves in a wild mixture of these three languages, so even parents do not understand them well. Now English is mastered in full.
    The youngest with her husband a German lives in Belarus. Also three languages ​​for children are native.
    So my opinion is everything, absolutely everything depends on the family in the question of which language to use.
  39. karabass
    karabass 18 September 2019 10: 29
    +1
    Maxim died and to hell with him
  40. Basarev
    Basarev 18 September 2019 13: 57
    0
    The task is more global - to promote the Russian language, return it to the status of a global language, or even to overthrow English from the throne.
  41. Komment.2019
    Komment.2019 18 September 2019 17: 43
    0
    I don’t understand how adults can’t realize that the diversity of languages ​​is a wealth that must be preserved. Why enormous efforts are being made to save, for example, gray whales, and at the same time, the same unique phenomenon as the language of an entire nation is completely calmly erased.
    On Sakhalin, for example, it was only thanks to Sakhalin Energy that the primer of the Ulta people was created. There are only 4.000 of them. The language could just be forgotten, just disappear. Once upon a time, before the 40s. In the 20th century, the Ainu people lived on Sakhalin. I have no doubt that if the Ainu had stayed in Sakhalin, and had not left with the Japanese, their language would now be in the same state as that of the North Sakhalin Uilt. Unfortunately, the languages ​​of Russia are judged here by people who are clearly far from linguistics. Such and the destruction of rare animals are justified, if only by the fact that nothing in their lives changes from their destruction. These languages ​​originated long before the birth of the people who commented here. Long before the birth of the parents of these people, before the birth of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers. And to determine the meaning of the languages ​​of the small peoples of the Russian Federation (yes, it is not needed at all) is simply stupid. This is an indicator of the limitations of such would-be commentators.
    1. depressant
      depressant 18 September 2019 21: 20
      0
      Komment.2019, I didn’t give you a minus, I destroyed it, but you must explain your statement.
      However, first, please note that on this site there are no people who would advocate the destruction of rare species of animals and plants. We all understand here that rupture and destruction of any link in the ecological chain, animal or vegetable, leads to the sequential impoverishment of the food supply of the remaining species, their disappearance, which means to the impoverishment of the food supply of the person himself. Which, unfortunately, is happening. But how does the extinction of the language of a very small nation affect the general culture of mankind?
      Suppose a tribe lives on an island in the ocean that no one knows about. The tribe speaks its own language, has a certain cultural base. And suddenly - the eruption of a volcano, inappropriately existing on this island. Residents die. What has culturally lost humanity? Or what mankind would gain if this island was discovered by sailors. Explain, please.
  42. xax
    xax 18 September 2019 22: 05
    0
    scientist, candidate of philosophical sciences

    Any science must have an object and a subject. Philosophy has no object, therefore, it cannot be considered a science. After all, one cannot in all seriousness consider everything, or almost everything, as an object of study, as it is often declared by those who are looking for an object in philosophy "And cannot find it in any way" (c). How then can one become a candidate of philosophical sciences if philosophy is not a science? The question is philosophical.
    Why am I.
    All future candidates of any profession, without exception, are forced to pass the candidate minimum, including in philosophy, in connection with which, any serious university should have an army of loafers who claim that they are engaged in philosophy. And idleness, as you know, is the mother of all vices. What we see in this case.