Military Review

Former adviser to Putin: DNR and LC in Ukraine will block the path to NATO and the EU

69
Former adviser to the president of Russia, Andrei Illarionov, who changed into an ardent oppositionist, commented on the situation that would manifest itself if Ukraine fulfilled the Minsk agreements. Recall that, under these agreements, “separate areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions” (DPR and LPR) should ultimately remain an integral part of Ukraine.


Former adviser to Putin: DNR and LC in Ukraine will block the path to NATO and the EU


According to Illarionov, the return of the republics of Donbass to Ukraine will mean blocking movement in the EU and NATO. Illarionov, who lives in the United States, made such a statement in response to a question about the vector of development of Ukraine if the so-called “Steinmeier Plan” is fulfilled.

Illarionov calls this plan "a time bomb for Ukraine." From his interview with Ukrainian journalists:

And these two entities (DPR and LPR, - note “IN”) will blow up the political system from the inside. They will block the internal development of the country in any areas that today's pro-Ukrainian parties and figures can talk about or are talking about. Of course, they will block any movement of Ukraine towards Europe, the European Union, NATO and real integration with the Western world.

Illarionov said that if LDNR is included as the territory of Ukraine in the Verkhovna Rada, “35-40% of representatives of pro-Putin parties of the total number of people's deputies will easily be”.

Illarionov, who escaped to the United States in this way, actually discourages Kiev from further implementation of the Minsk agreements and pushes Kiev to completely abandon the Donbass for the sake of “Euro- and Euro-Atlantic integration”.
69 comments
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  1. Thrall
    Thrall 16 September 2019 13: 08
    +10
    changed into an ardent oppositionist

    Illarionov externally also changed a lot. Aged and flabby
    1. figwam
      figwam 16 September 2019 13: 12
      +13
      Aged and flabby

      Probably fast food.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 16 September 2019 18: 53
        -2
        Quote: figvam
        Aged and flabby

        Probably fast food.

        Yes, everything is fine they have there in California with food
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 16 September 2019 13: 14
      +14
      Quote: Thrall

      Illarionov externally also changed a lot. Aged and flabby

      Good and healthy 3 meals a day at McDonald's. This is not potato pies for you (Zhmurki) feel
      1. 210ox
        210ox 16 September 2019 13: 45
        +6
        Yes, and his advice from fast food did not improve ... Or maybe he, too ... Cossack mishandled?
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 16 September 2019 17: 01
          +3
          Quote: 210ox
          And his advice from fast food did not improve... Or maybe he, too ... Cossack mishandled?
          Who knows, who knows ... It painfully deftly combes and almost in unison with Philip Breedlove, the mattress supervisor of the united NATO forces in Europe, who "beckoned" the Georgians that the path to NATO will be thorny and not easy as long as they want return South Ossetia and Abkhazia under their control, thus hinting - they say give up these territories and in the absence of territorial problems, march into the bloc. This pretzel is also broadcasting the same thing, replacing Ossetia and Abkhazia with the LPR and DPR.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 17 September 2019 07: 36
          +2
          Quote: 210ox
          Or maybe he, too ... Cossack mishandled?

          All of them are "former" bastards, that ours, that theirs. As soon as they were weaned from the feeder, they begin to bark at the former owner. Symptom of the yard "mongrel".
    3. Ros 56
      Ros 56 16 September 2019 16: 49
      +1
      Are any of us younger? Well, admit who managed it that way. request lol
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 17 September 2019 07: 40
        +1
        Quote: Ros 56
        Are any of us younger?

        Clear to everyone. But old age has its own peculiarities, here some people become more spiritualized by old age, it’s nice to look at them, For example, Albert Einstein, and in contrast Margaret Albright.
    4. RUSS
      RUSS 16 September 2019 17: 56
      +4
      Quote: Thrall
      changed into an ardent oppositionist

      Illarionov externally also changed a lot. Aged and flabby

      But in essence, he said that everything is true ......
  2. Vadim T.
    Vadim T. 16 September 2019 13: 10
    +5
    Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side ...
    Shota Rustaveli.
  3. Dangerous
    Dangerous 16 September 2019 13: 16
    +1
    But according to the Minsk agreements, a pig was slipped to the inhabitants of these two republics. Five years of war and devastation did not lead to independence. And they won’t. All the same, they will be part of Ukraine. So for the sake of what suffered bombing these years ???
    1. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 16 September 2019 13: 34
      0
      Quote: Dangerous
      But according to the Minsk agreements, a pig was slipped to the inhabitants of these two republics. Five years of war and devastation did not lead to independence. And they won’t. All the same, they will be part of Ukraine. So for the sake of what suffered bombing these years ???

      Is Ukraine paying a salary?
      1. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 16 September 2019 13: 40
        -3
        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
        Quote: Dangerous
        But according to the Minsk agreements, a pig was slipped to the inhabitants of these two republics. Five years of war and devastation did not lead to independence. And they won’t. All the same, they will be part of Ukraine. So for the sake of what suffered bombing these years ???

        Is Ukraine paying a salary?

        From what does this, the source of the zp, follow?
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 16 September 2019 16: 50
      0
      Not everyone is given to find out. In politics, nothing just happens.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 17 September 2019 07: 44
      0
      Quote: Dangerous
      So for the sake of what suffered bombing these years ???

      For the sake of that, and the Kosovo Serbs.
  4. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 16 September 2019 13: 21
    +1
    In this way, Illarionov who escaped to the United States thus effectively discourages Kiev from further implementation of the Minsk agreements and pushes Kiev to completely abandon the Donbass
    Yes, they would have refused, but only: a) the war is beneficial to the political elite for getting money and personal enrichment, and b) the Nazis "will not understand", and this scares the elite to the point of cheating.
    1. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 16 September 2019 13: 27
      +4
      "" Illarionov, who fled to the USA ... "..
      "3 days ago - Journalists believe that Navalny fled to the United States to form a" smart government in exile "...
      If only the redhead made a holiday ..and escaped .. wink
      In fact. "Illarionov, who fled to the United States .." is clearly playing along with the United States in creating constant chaos in their interests at the junction of the EU and Russian borders ..
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 16 September 2019 15: 29
        +1
        What did you want? Since October 2006, you’ve been a senior fellow at the Center for Global Freedom and Prosperity at the Cato Institute, a libertarian research institution based in Washington, DC.
      2. Victor Orthodox
        Victor Orthodox 16 September 2019 19: 10
        +1
        You should see comments about the escape of Navalny on Rambler.
        Yes you are! It cannot be Putin’s provocation!
        Bulk not so he could not!
        He was saved, otherwise he would have been killed as Nemtsov!
        Fake news!
        The country has lost the main fighter against corruption!
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Amateur
    Amateur 16 September 2019 13: 34
    0
    Did he run away or did Trump pass too?
  7. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 16 September 2019 13: 36
    +1
    There have always been enough traitors in the history of Russia, and now every upstart escaping abroad imagines himself a great strategist and politician .... it is clear that any statement and interview is paid .... that’s why they earn money .....
  8. Victor Orthodox
    Victor Orthodox 16 September 2019 13: 38
    +3
    He's right.
    Everything is just like that.
    The only thing that can be added, if the US needs it, Ukraine will be taken into NATO no matter what.
    Well, it’s possible, as an option, Ukraine is not needed as part of NATO because it will need to fit in if something happens. But the amers have completely different plans. They have already been voiced.
    1 The overthrow of power in Russia
    2 Attack on Russia from all possible sides, with the help of its satellites. Afghanistan, Ferghana Valley, Ukraine, Caucasus, Baltic States, etc.
    3 The division of Russia with provincial small-town authorities
    4 Assignment of all valuable.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 16 September 2019 14: 09
      -2
      Quote: Victor Orthodox
      3 The division of Russia with provincial small-town authorities
      4 Assignment of all valuable.

      The last two points have already been implemented. Local princes are put in places, the appropriation of all that is valuable has long happened.
      1. Victor Orthodox
        Victor Orthodox 16 September 2019 18: 07
        0
        Dukes seem to have fought off hands and took valuable things to themselves. Moreover, they began to hover, to threaten Zircons.
        1. Antares
          Antares 16 September 2019 20: 43
          -5
          Quote: Victor Orthodox
          Dukes seem to have fought off hands and took valuable things to themselves.

          The main thing is to hand over the rent on time and pay for the label with raw materials or money.
          Quote: Victor Orthodox
          Moreover, they began to hover, to threaten Zircons.

          the role is also necessary. Otherwise, military budgets will be cut off. Yes, and taxpayers will start asking a bunch of questions why the screw is conditionally worth $ 20 at the Pentagon ...
          threaten also need something interesting.
  9. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 16 September 2019 13: 40
    -2
    However, there is another, completely opposite version.
    Lao PDR MUST remain part of Ukraine in order to block Ukraine’s entry into NATO. And that could be Putin’s plan. Coinciding in its vector with the plans of the Ukrainian leadership, desperately fighting for the unity and indivisibility of the non-stop. The goals and strategy are different, but the paths and tactics are the same. What is in the spirit of sambo wrestling, in which comrade Putin has reached perfection. Use the movement of the enemy to his detriment.
    1. Pedrodepackes
      Pedrodepackes 16 September 2019 13: 52
      -2
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      Lao PDR MUST remain part of Ukraine in order to block Ukraine’s entry into NATO.

      active supporters of the "Russian world" will be "cleaned out", the secret Bandera supporters who are hiding will be with the slogans "I want lace panties" to break into the EU, and the khataskrayniks will sit in their huts and who will
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      block Ukraine’s entry into NATO?

      Quote: Vkd dvk
      What is in the spirit of sambo wrestling .... Use the movement of the enemy to his detriment.
      Isn't that the concept of aikido?
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      Putin has reached perfection.

      how be ... what
    2. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 16 September 2019 13: 58
      -1
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      Use the movement of the enemy to his detriment.

      Yeah, the main thing here is not to get carried away. In order to use the movement of the enemy, did not become like waving him. And then immediately some kind of ambiguity appears in this action. laughing
      As with Georgia, they seem to have won (they definitely won from the military), but for some reason the USA gets political buns. The ambiguity and mystery of why this happened. request
      1. DenZ
        DenZ 16 September 2019 14: 11
        +4
        Quote: Leshy1975
        That would use the movement of the enemy, did not become like waving him

        Well, it all depends on the skill of execution. And since you write maybe.
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        Lao PDR MUST remain part of Ukraine in order to block Ukraine’s entry into NATO. And that could be Putin’s plan.
        It may very well be. If the majority of Ukrainians would be tired of the current government, then it would be so, but so far everything is going in a different direction. Russophobia has not diminished and LDNR as part of Ukraine Ukraine itself sees only through the complete submission of these territories. At the same time, LDNR is not supposed to ask Ukraine to join NATO or not. But everything can change. The risk of a major war can change the perception of Ukrainians.
        1. Leshy1975
          Leshy1975 16 September 2019 14: 36
          +5
          Quote: DenZ
          Quote: Leshy1975
          That would use the movement of the enemy, did not become like waving him

          Well, it all depends on the skill of execution. And since you write maybe.
          Quote: Vkd dvk
          Lao PDR MUST remain part of Ukraine in order to block Ukraine’s entry into NATO. And that could be Putin’s plan.
          It may very well be. If the majority of Ukrainians would be tired of the current government, then it would be so, but so far everything is going in a different direction. Russophobia has not diminished and LDNR as part of Ukraine Ukraine itself sees only through the complete submission of these territories. At the same time, LDNR is not supposed to ask Ukraine to join NATO or not. But everything can change. The risk of a major war can change the perception of Ukrainians.

          This is where things can end worse. I will share my thoughts. Donbass is now clearly pro-Russian. But if the act of betrayal takes place, then we will get equally ardent opponents. Betrayal, on the part of people whom he trusted, on the part of his own, leaves a strong trauma. And no matter how we get the second Zapadenschina, right here on the border. And I have no doubt that the establishment of "Ukrainian order" and reprisals against the most active supporters of Russia will begin there. Well, of course, not right away, but they won't pull too much. I think this process will go on within a year, after people who are already loyal to Ukraine can be placed in key positions.
          And then, nothing can be fixed. There will be no one to rely on, and the Russian Federation will not go to open war. "Partners" will quickly fly in and quickly explain that there is no need to do this, as they have already observed more than once (Sarkozy and Burkhalter). After meetings with whom, the leadership of the Russian Federation did not complete what it had begun.

          PS That's how I see the situation. The risks are very large, with the return of the Donbass to Ukraine to play such a game. hi
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 16 September 2019 14: 13
        +1
        Quote: Leshy1975
        As with Georgia, they seem to have won (they definitely won from the military), but for some reason the USA gets political buns. The ambiguity and mystery of why this happened.

        When they won, they were afraid of their victories .. That's why it turns out .. Ah, let's talk, and then we are afraid .. As with the Donbas .. Immediately after the victory, it is clear that the "partners" begin to threaten expropriation and immediately turn on our diplomats .. As a result, the "partners" keep dividends.
        1. Leshy1975
          Leshy1975 16 September 2019 14: 20
          +2
          Quote: Svarog
          Quote: Leshy1975
          As with Georgia, they seem to have won (they definitely won from the military), but for some reason the USA gets political buns. The ambiguity and mystery of why this happened.

          When they won, they were afraid of their victories .. That's why it turns out .. Ah, let's talk, and then we are afraid .. As with the Donbas .. Immediately after the victory, it is clear that the "partners" begin to threaten expropriation and immediately turn on our diplomats .. As a result, the "partners" keep dividends.

          Yes, we are with you, there’s nothing to agitate one another. I agree to all 146%, just like in the CEC. laughing This is me so citizen Victor teasing. With his mastery of Putin, which as a result climbs sideways. hi
    3. Looking for
      Looking for 16 September 2019 15: 34
      +5
      And you understand. That there will be tens of thousands of convicted tortured. Missing. And the main criterion of "guilt" will be belonging to the Russian nation.
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 16 September 2019 14: 17
      +3
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      To take these territories is to become an aggressor.

      Is it after the Crimea ?! Yes, we are so in the West and believe, after the Crimea. And the rest do not care. So for whom then we try?
      There is a very accurate comparison to this: Putin and Ukraine did the same as if hacking a bank and taking only 100 rubles. The responsibility is the same, but what's the point?
      But bring the matter to the end and not any lawsuits to you and everything else, from Ukraine.
      Sanctions of the West? And they are right now, and who said that they would be more? Maybe on the contrary it would have already ended, because there wouldn’t be anyone who would constantly pedal this topic (I'm talking about the Ukrainian leadership). But what has already been done is done. But singing assans of stupidity is also not the case.
  11. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 16 September 2019 14: 06
    0
    Quote: Leshy1975
    Quote: Vkd dvk
    Use the movement of the enemy to his detriment.

    Yeah, the main thing here is not to get carried away. In order to use the movement of the enemy, did not become like waving him. And then immediately some kind of ambiguity appears in this action. laughing
    As with Georgia, they seem to have won (they definitely won from the military), but for some reason the USA gets political buns. The ambiguity and mystery of why this happened. request

    In all scandals, the one who has more slaves gets buns. They are forced to howl at the owner. Otherwise .....
    However, do you not notice how the public opinion is changing regarding that scandal. From unconditional furious barking from all sides, to silence and even silent (yet) approval.
    Don't you notice that the same thing is happening with Ukraine.
    Slower of course. The law of inertia, the masses of Ukraine and Georgia are not equal.
  12. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 16 September 2019 14: 10
    +3
    An ideological traitor is part of the Russian discourse, it cannot be hated or destroyed, especially since he is deeply convinced that he is bearing a revelation. He must be accepted as inevitable, such as drunkenness and prostitution.
  13. Desdecado
    Desdecado 16 September 2019 14: 20
    +1
    So this is what "Putin's cunning plan" is about .. But why was it necessary to arrange a second Stalingrad near Donetsk, 5 years long, they wanted to pity the Western partners ..
  14. Piramidon
    Piramidon 16 September 2019 14: 22
    +5
    According to Illarionov, the return of the republics of Donbass to Ukraine will mean blocking movement in the EU and NATO.

    Andryukha drives the blizzard. The Yankes are ready to accept the rodents without Abkhazia and South Ossetia. As the saying goes - "If a gentleman cannot play by the rules, then he changes the rules."
  15. Nick
    Nick 16 September 2019 14: 22
    -7
    An industrial, educated, united Donbass will annex the rest of Ukraine and will become part of Russia as a new federal district. This is what the Illarions really fear.
    1. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 16 September 2019 14: 40
      +4
      Quote: Nick
      An industrial, educated, united Donbass will annex the rest of Ukraine and will become part of Russia as a new federal district. This is what the Illarions really fear.

      But haloperidol should not be carried away. laughing

      PS Do not be offended, please. hi Could not resist laughing
      1. Nick
        Nick 16 September 2019 15: 05
        +2
        Quote: Leshy1975
        But haloperidol should not be carried away.

        Not at all. That is exactly the case.
        Quote: Leshy1975
        PS Do not be offended, please. Could not resist

        I’m not offended. Resentment is one of the manifestations of pride, pride is a sin! And big.
        1. Leshy1975
          Leshy1975 16 September 2019 16: 11
          -1
          Quote: Nick
          Quote: Leshy1975
          But haloperidol should not be carried away.

          Not at all. That is exactly the case.
          Quote: Leshy1975
          PS Do not be offended, please. Could not resist

          I’m not offended. Resentment is one of the manifestations of pride, pride is a sin! And big.

          Well, if you’re not offended, then you’re huge from me +. For excerpt. Already set. hi
          1. Nick
            Nick 16 September 2019 16: 12
            0
            Quote: Leshy1975
            Well, if you’re not offended, then you’re huge from me +. For excerpt. Already set.

            And you. For mercy and benevolence.
  16. aleksr2005
    aleksr2005 16 September 2019 14: 37
    +1
    How was such a mr..z an adviser to the president? So money (it is not known in what way) raised to positions and disappeared into the United States. What are these "" patriotic oppositionists "counting on in the fight against the regime. The new daughter sent to study in the United States and hopes to become the leader of the nation!
    1. Lbt21
      Lbt21 16 September 2019 16: 03
      +2
      Remind you where the children of our "father of the nation" ???
      1. Nick
        Nick 16 September 2019 16: 15
        -1
        Quote: Lbt21
        Remind you where the children of our "father of the nation" ???

        And who is it?
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 16 September 2019 16: 28
        -3
        Actually in Moscow. And the second lives in St. Petersburg.
    2. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 16 September 2019 17: 11
      -1
      Quote: aleksr2005
      How was such a mr..z an adviser to the president? So money (it is not known in what way) raised to positions and disappeared into the United States. What are these "" patriotic oppositionists "counting on in the fight against the regime. The new daughter sent to study in the United States and hopes to become the leader of the nation!

      And what?
      (source rusmonitor.com on September 5, 2019)
      The son of the Prime Minister of the Russian Federation D. Medvedev Ilya lives in the USA US citizen. Owns a network of supermarkets and gas stations.
      The daughter of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Sergey Lavrov Catherine lives in USA, draws up citizenship.
      Wife of the press secretary Peskov D.S. - US citizen. Daughter French citizen. A son UK citizen.
      The daughters of the Deputy Speaker of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Zheleznyak: daughter Catherine - in Switzerland, Anastasia and Lisa - in London.

      Will Navalny become the leader of the nation, that’s another grandmother said in two. And here Peskov, already with the leader. But it’s also interesting how Peskov and his wife solve the issue of sanctions? laughing How do they reach consensus? Although, this is precisely known about the wife’s citizenship, maybe they don’t have any contradictions? Both adhere. Judging by the state of affairs in the country, this is quite possible. laughing

      PS By the way, close family members also live abroad with the "leader of the nation", with comfort. And you all about Navalny. Is he worse? Where everything is, there he is. laughing
  17. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 16 September 2019 14: 43
    +1
    Quote: Leshy1975
    Quote: Vkd dvk
    To take these territories is to become an aggressor.

    Is it after the Crimea ?! Yes, we are so in the West and believe, after the Crimea. And the rest do not care. So for whom then we try?
    There is a very accurate comparison to this: Putin and Ukraine did the same as if hacking a bank and taking only 100 rubles. The responsibility is the same, but what's the point?
    But bring the matter to the end and not any lawsuits to you and everything else, from Ukraine.
    Sanctions of the West? And they are right now, and who said that they would be more? Maybe on the contrary it would have already ended, because there wouldn’t be anyone who would constantly pedal this topic (I'm talking about the Ukrainian leadership). But what has already been done is done. But singing assans of stupidity is also not the case.

    Counting and being are two different things. Everything is clear with Crimea. But this clarity does not save us from the barking. If the referendum that they held there, and even with tachen results, do not convince the unconvinced, then what will happen when our snout is down?
  18. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 16 September 2019 15: 21
    +4
    "pushes Kiev to a complete rejection of Donbass" ////
    ---
    This is good for Russia.
    If Ukraine refuses Donbass, then it will join the structure of Russia.
    It will be good for everyone: Russia, Ukraine, and residents of Donbass.
    1. Nick
      Nick 16 September 2019 16: 20
      -4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      "pushes Kiev to a complete rejection of Donbass" ////
      ---
      This is good for Russia.
      If Ukraine refuses Donbass, then it will join the structure of Russia.
      It will be good for everyone: Russia, Ukraine, and residents of Donbass.

      If Ukraine joins Donbass, and Donbass joins Russia, then everyone will be fine.
  19. Thrifty
    Thrifty 16 September 2019 15: 39
    -1
    If Russia does not make every effort for the collapse of ukroiny, the west, through the same ukroinu will destroy our Russia. We have a small choice, they will not let us live in peace. Zelenisky VNA ukroine is a project of the United States, with the goal of dusting our brains, making us relax and believe in the possibility of a peaceful existence of an anti-Russian Western world, under the leadership of the United States and our state.
  20. Rwmos
    Rwmos 16 September 2019 15: 57
    -5
    And without Donbass, dill is only capable of growing kavunas and blowing in trembits.
    However, what's the difference. Holopia Donbass has long lost
  21. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 16 September 2019 17: 49
    0
    Quote: Leshy1975
    Quote: DenZ
    Quote: Leshy1975
    That would use the movement of the enemy, did not become like waving him

    Well, it all depends on the skill of execution. And since you write maybe.
    Quote: Vkd dvk
    Lao PDR MUST remain part of Ukraine in order to block Ukraine’s entry into NATO. And that could be Putin’s plan.
    It may very well be. If the majority of Ukrainians would be tired of the current government, then it would be so, but so far everything is going in a different direction. Russophobia has not diminished and LDNR as part of Ukraine Ukraine itself sees only through the complete submission of these territories. At the same time, LDNR is not supposed to ask Ukraine to join NATO or not. But everything can change. The risk of a major war can change the perception of Ukrainians.

    This is where things can end worse. I will share my thoughts. Donbass is now clearly pro-Russian. But if the act of betrayal takes place, then we will get equally ardent opponents. Betrayal, on the part of people whom he trusted, on the part of his own, leaves a strong trauma. And no matter how we get the second Zapadenschina, right here on the border. And I have no doubt that the establishment of "Ukrainian order" and reprisals against the most active supporters of Russia will begin there. Well, of course, not right away, but they won't pull too much. I think this process will go on within a year, after people who are already loyal to Ukraine can be placed in key positions.
    And then, nothing can be fixed. There will be no one to rely on, and the Russian Federation will not go to open war. "Partners" will quickly fly in and quickly explain that there is no need to do this, as they have already observed more than once (Sarkozy and Burkhalter). After meetings with whom, the leadership of the Russian Federation did not complete what it had begun.

    PS That's how I see the situation. The risks are very large, with the return of the Donbass to Ukraine to play such a game. hi

    Something you think people are dolls. Fifteen thousand dead, grief, devastation and misfortune simply do not disappear by magic. Many years passed after the Great Patriotic War. And the relationship of the mass to the GERMANS does not change. And, especially to the fascists.
    Negative attitude, not considering that we were winners. As Napoleon’s personal physician said, the wounds of the winners heal faster.
    Lao PDR did not win. Where could such agility be? The people cannot betray. The top people can betray the people, but runs the risk of being hanged once in the lanterns.
  22. nesvobodnaja
    nesvobodnaja 16 September 2019 18: 41
    0
    He did not change his shoes into an ardent oppositionist, as the author writes. He was always a shifter.
    Moreover, - frank.
  23. Soviet Union
    Soviet Union 16 September 2019 18: 51
    +1
    Why not in the cemetery?
  24. Kontrik
    Kontrik 16 September 2019 19: 21
    -1
    We will share the outskirts ..! This is definitely ..
  25. Bshkaus
    Bshkaus 16 September 2019 20: 16
    -2
    Let's be honest, nobody needs the LDNR, neither the Russian Federation nor Ukraine. She has not yet given up on them just because it is a good way to constantly press and troll the Russian Federation. Russia does not refuse because it's a good stop-cock on the way to NATO.
    There are no fools sitting there either and are well aware that there is no sense in rebuilding a Donbass that is hostile to you without it, and all the more stupid to take it back for the reasons indicated in the article.
    All this confusion will continue for a very long time until either the Russian Federation squanders its forces and loses in the long-term, or it does not freak out and recognize LDNR (which is also a real defeat) because we’ll be immediately sanctioned, don’t pamper yourself, and Ukraine will quietly withdraw to NATO, weakening the Russian Federation as much as possible.
    Personally, it seems to me that we are all in a mutual clinch from which it is already impossible to emerge victorious, in fact the situation is stalemate for everything (((
    1. Antares
      Antares 16 September 2019 20: 54
      -2
      Quote: Bshkaus
      No one needs LDNR, neither the Russian Federation nor Ukraine

      the status quo is inevitable.
      The region itself is hostage to this game, where for them there is no gain anywhere. In any case, this is a bargaining chip. People are tired of such HPP.
      And the further it goes, the more expensive it will be for the "winner" economy.
      It's easier to isolate it. For Ukraine. And for the Russian Federation. What are they actually doing.
      I am sure that they can even find a common language, without a clear definition of the gray zone.
      And then there will be only nominal control. For money do not worry will have to pour into it.
      The way to NATO ORDILO does not block. For the rules are easier to change than the return conditions. The question is only necessary. It will be necessary - the process will be fast.
      The game is long.
      The Russian Federation hopes that Ukraine (conditionally the West) will "get tired" and accept the conditions of Gazprom.
      The West once again plays a long one. From experience, knowing that Russia has never survived with such an economic component.
      It is a pity, frankly a pity that the "wars" of corporations for the redistribution of the gas market created "republics" where the "Russian world" has become a common (and negative) name.
      1. German Titov
        German Titov 16 September 2019 22: 29
        -2
        Can you tell me how many people "crowd" for "the coveted patchport of a citizen of Ukraine?" There is a very long queue for the passports of citizens of the Donetsk People's Republic. Not we (Donetsk, Luhansk) bombed our cities from planes. We speak different languages ​​and we cannot find a translator.
  26. aleks.29ru
    aleks.29ru 16 September 2019 21: 11
    0
    Discovered America. This is the idea of ​​Lenin’s grandfather.
  27. German Titov
    German Titov 16 September 2019 22: 08
    0
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: Thrall
    changed into an ardent oppositionist

    Illarionov externally also changed a lot. Aged and flabby

    But in essence, he said that everything is true ......


    He actually said correctly. Until the "intrastate conflicts" are settled, one will have to forget about "NAT". We each have our own "Natka, Tanyushka, Svetlanka, etc. have". Not "amerikosnoNATOVskim hulk, to climb into our internal affairs.
  28. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 16 September 2019 22: 17
    0
    Quote: Bshkaus
    Let's be honest, nobody needs the LDNR, neither the Russian Federation nor Ukraine. She has not yet given up on them just because it is a good way to constantly press and troll the Russian Federation. Russia does not refuse because it's a good stop-cock on the way to NATO.
    There are no fools sitting there either and are well aware that there is no sense in rebuilding a Donbass that is hostile to you without it, and all the more stupid to take it back for the reasons indicated in the article.
    All this confusion will continue for a very long time until either the Russian Federation squanders its forces and loses in the long-term, or it does not freak out and recognize LDNR (which is also a real defeat) because we’ll be immediately sanctioned, don’t pamper yourself, and Ukraine will quietly withdraw to NATO, weakening the Russian Federation as much as possible.
    Personally, it seems to me that we are all in a mutual clinch from which it is already impossible to emerge victorious, in fact the situation is stalemate for everything (((

    There is nothing permanent in our world. Including the situation in Ukraine will be solved, and quickly enough.
    Ukrainians will understand what this egg-laying pianist actually represents, there will be a new Maidan. To do this, it is enough to survive the winter in cold apartments with an increasing burden of housing and communal services. No hot water. Next summer, green will begin to open its second envelope. (Do you know the joke about the three envelopes?) Sale of land. And here he will have to run after the village.
    1. iouris
      iouris 17 September 2019 12: 47
      0
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      there will be a new maidan

      All. Maidanov will no longer exist, unless you personally finance it. Now is the time: agricultural work at the roguli is being completed, but money is needed.
  29. iouris
    iouris 17 September 2019 00: 16
    0
    Illarionov brains the brains of the electorate well. They will never join the EU, and the States do not need NATO.
  30. sleeve
    sleeve 17 September 2019 05: 02
    0
    And there will be peace and tranquility and prosperity in Ukraine ...
  31. 23424636
    23424636 17 September 2019 09: 46
    0
    Illarionov is completely crazy about burgers and cola. Comrade, you say the opposite. The inclusion of Donbass in Ukraine will immediately allow Parliament to pass a law on the temporary abandonment of Crimea in the conditions of the return of Donbass, which will allow this country to be subject to the conditions for joining NATO and they will definitely come in handy .And that the GDP having lost control over the border will again speak of compatriots, alas, in Latvia they all had them. and nothing.
  32. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 18 September 2019 11: 03
    0
    Quote: iouris
    Quote: Vkd dvk
    there will be a new maidan

    All. Maidanov will no longer exist, unless you personally finance it. Now is the time: agricultural work at the roguli is being completed, but money is needed.

    Study the classics. And don't make your own crap. "When the upper classes cannot, but the lower classes do not want ..."

    When the tops play with the genitals on the piano, and the housing and communal services grows and grows. The situation is in stock. The only question is time. Nowadays, 6% of the population is engaged in agriculture. This is not in pre-revolutionary Russia- 80%.
    So, the masses are not busy with work in the fields, but standing in lines in the administration on issues of existence.