Military Review

KTRV: Trials of "Zircon" are intensive and keep up with the schedule

124
Tests of the Russian hypersonic anti-ship missile Zircon are ongoing and are proceeding at an intensive pace. The end of the tests and the transfer of the rocket to the customer will take place at a predetermined time. This was announced by Boris Obnosov, General Director of the Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation.


KTRV: Trials of "Zircon" are intensive and keep up with the schedule


Answering the corresponding question of the journalists, Obnosov stated that the tests of the Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missiles are going intensively, according to the previously approved schedule. According to him, the end of the tests and the transfer of the Defense Ministry rocket will be held in advance agreed upon with the military, there is no lag behind the schedule. However, he refused to provide information on specific dates.

The work is carried out intensively, will be completed in a time agreed with the customer

- he said.

The KTRV CEO also explained that it is still too early to talk about creating a ground-based Zircon missile for striking ground targets, since work on the anti-ship version of the rocket has not yet been completed.

The latest Russian hypersonic missile Zircon is capable of speeds around 9 Machs, and its range may exceed 1 thousand kilometers. The anti-ship missiles will be launched using a universal naval rifle complex with vertical launchers, which are used for the Caliber and Onyx missiles.

It was previously reported that in 2020 firing from surface ships and submarines will be carried out. The underwater part of the tests was planned to begin the multipurpose submarine of Project 885M Kazan, from which it was planned to launch the missile in an underwater position, but it could be replaced by another Russian submarine if Kazan did not manage to become part of the Russian fleet. The first launch of the Russian Zircon hypersonic missile from the side of a combat ship will be carried out by the frigate of project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov. Previously, all missile launches were carried out using a ground-based test bench.
124 comments
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  1. awg75
    awg75 29 August 2019 15: 36
    +1
    another nail in the coffin of the USA
    1. Vladimir16
      Vladimir16 29 August 2019 15: 37
      +13
      No, this is a remedy.
      Including protection from aggression by English-speaking countries - the United States, England, Canada and the support.

      "Previously, all missile launches were made using a ground test bench."
      Hi RSMD laughing

      How much is there to fly to Berlin with 9 mach?
      Come, ride through Berlin, our Cossacks! laughing
      1. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 29 August 2019 15: 50
        +10
        Quote: Vladimir16
        Hi RSMD

        no greetings. Zircon is a sea-based missile not covered by the INF Treaty.
        1. Vladimir16
          Vladimir16 29 August 2019 16: 08
          +1
          Quote: Gregory_45
          no greetings.

          As you say.
          I repeat what is written in the article
          "Previously, all missile launches were carried out using ground test bench"

          Such, you know, GROUND hello. laughing

          But we will stubbornly assert that this does not count as:
          Quote: Gregory_45
          Zircon is a sea-based missile not covered by the INF Treaty.
          laughing wassat lol

          What do you think, but a test bucket of water was poured under the stand before the start? Well, to say that they say shmalnuli from the water? laughing
          1. Vladimir16
            Vladimir16 29 August 2019 16: 13
            +14
            You know, I don’t give a damn about all these contracts.
            The main thing is that a peaceful sky is above the heads of my children and loved ones. Well, I’ll be quiet next to them there.
            And if for the sake of this peace it is necessary to withdraw from the agreement, then it is inapplicable to withdraw and score on all who are against.
            1. Kontrik
              Kontrik 29 August 2019 17: 41
              +8
              Quote: Vladimir16
              You know, I don’t give a damn about all these contracts.
              The main thing is that a peaceful sky is above the heads of my children and loved ones. Well, I’ll be quiet next to them there.
              And if for the sake of this peace it is necessary to withdraw from the agreement, then it is inapplicable to withdraw and score on all who are against.

              Excellent Vladimir koment .. I think the majority in Russia will agree with you! Too often we were deceived, violating all agreements .. NATO won almost already near Moscow, but they promised not to expand and swore by their mother and pope .. hi
            2. Grits
              Grits 30 August 2019 01: 11
              0
              Quote: Vladimir16
              You know, I don’t give a damn about all these contracts.
              The main thing is that a peaceful sky is above the heads of my children and loved ones. Well, I’ll be quiet next to them there.

              Perhaps you are right in something. But it was thanks to these agreements that we lived a little bit with a lower risk of war for children and loved ones. And they also saved huge financial resources and sent them in a different direction.
          2. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 29 August 2019 16: 29
            +16
            Apparently, emoticons replace knowledge and the ability to think soberly.

            in Nenoks - 45th State Central Order of Lenin Marine Test navy training ground Russia. "Zero-nine", military unit 09703.
            Purpose: ballistic, winged, anti-aircraft tests missiles and sea-based complexes.

            Now read DRMSD, and make sure that he concerns medium and short range ballistic and cruise missiles ground based only. Testing sea-based missiles (even from a ground stand, even from a surface, even from an underwater) is not prohibited.
            1. svp67
              svp67 29 August 2019 16: 37
              +6
              Quote: Gregory_45
              Testing sea-based missiles (even from a ground stand, even from a surface, even from an underwater) is not prohibited.

              As well as air. What the Americans used all this time, increasing the number and various modifications of "Tomahawks"
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 29 August 2019 17: 56
                +1
                So after all, the Gauges were introduced according to the same scheme and I think that we will get the ground Gauge by the New Year (if the Innovator has not already been extended or thickened).
                1. svp67
                  svp67 29 August 2019 18: 01
                  +3
                  Quote: hydrox
                  So, after all, the Gauges were introduced according to the same scheme and I think that we will get the ground Gauge by the New Year

                  So he already is. With some refinement, his range is less than 500 km
                  Quote: hydrox
                  if the innovator has not already lengthened and thickened

                  Actually, these missiles are not the Novator profile, he specializes in anti-aircraft missiles, but they did it, it turned out and surprisingly, they put it into service
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 29 August 2019 19: 10
                    +1
                    I beg your pardon, but I did not mean NPO Novator, but product 9M729 (after all, it is also called “Novator”).
                    And one can only praise the product of an NGO: I think that they will not sit too long with modernization.
                    And on the other hand, it’s good that monopoly by type of product is slowly starting to decline: designers should always be kept in a competitive tone.
                    1. Local from the Volga
                      Local from the Volga 29 August 2019 21: 21
                      0
                      I agree, but unfortunately, now everything (or almost everything) is close to bodies!
                      PS However, as always ...
                  2. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 29 August 2019 23: 37
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    So he already is. With some refinement, his range is less than 500 km

                    What you showed is Iskander-K. And the range of some of the missile launchers in his arsenal is not exactly 500 km. I'm talking about the Grenade-M, which is used on this modification of the Iskander. And the range of the Grenade was 2500 km. In the "M" variant, it may very well be that more.
                2. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 29 August 2019 20: 32
                  +1
                  Quote: hydrox
                  I think that we will get the ground Caliber by the New Year

                  he has already been around for a long time) This is Iskander’s variant with cruise missiles
            2. codetalker
              codetalker 29 August 2019 17: 01
              +6
              Why are you throwing yourself at people? No one claims that these tests violated the INF Treaty. By “Hello, the RSMD” means that it is not very far from testing on a ground test bench to placing this anti-ship missile system on a ground control panel.
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 29 August 2019 17: 09
                -1
                Quote: codetalker
                Why are you throwing yourself at people?

                Are you sure you correctly formulated the phrase?

                Quote: codetalker
                no one claims that these tests violated the INF Treaty

                Are you sure you carefully read the comments?
                Quote: Vladimir16
                I repeat what is written in the article
                "Previously, all missile launches were made using a ground test bench."

                Such, you know, GROUND hello.

                But we will stubbornly assert that this does not count

                Quote: Vladimir16
                and a test bucket of water was poured under the stand before the start? Well, to say that they say shmalnuli from the water?




                Quote: codetalker
                from testing at a ground test bench is not very far from placing this RCC on a ground control station

                this is just no one disputed
                1. codetalker
                  codetalker 29 August 2019 17: 14
                  -2
                  Well, maybe not very carefully :)
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. lev1759
            lev1759 29 August 2019 22: 25
            -1
            If the water is salty - then a ride ...
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 29 August 2019 23: 34
          -1
          Quote: Gregory_45
          no greetings. Zircon is a sea-based missile not covered by the INF Treaty.

          Our RCC ALL are very capable of working on the ground. Or didn’t you know?
          1. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 30 August 2019 05: 06
            0
            Quote: NEXUS
            able to work on land

            The key word is not "capable of working", but "sea-based". Axes also work on the ground, like Calibers, but do not fall under the DRMSD.
      2. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 30 August 2019 16: 34
        0
        But not important! Hurry up!
    2. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU 29 August 2019 15: 39
      +1
      Do not consider me spoiled by our "cartoons", but I would like the Zircon to fly even a little more than 9 Machs. Just in case))
      1. dauria
        dauria 29 August 2019 16: 11
        -1
        but I want the Zircon to fly even a little more than 9 Machs.


        In general, this is even more than the speed of some ballistic missiles. V-2 or Iskander-M. Impressive if this is really a ramjet engine running on the entire main site ..
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 29 August 2019 20: 10
          +2
          Quote: dauria
          Impressive if this is really a ramjet engine running on the entire main site ..

          Alexey! I would very much like it to be so ... But something tells me that for 1000 km in the atmosphere there is vulgarly "fuel in the volumes of UKSK" ...
          There remains quasi ballistics at 40-50 km, along the border of the atmosphere ... But downward, of course, it will accelerate to 9M! And the "funnel" will prevent all AIAs from working on the car ... Optics will ensure accuracy, on-board computers - speed ...
          So, let's wait!
      2. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 16: 12
        +1
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Do not consider me spoiled by our "cartoons", but I would like the Zircon to fly even a little more than 9 Machs. Just in case))

        And this is not the limit.
        WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT ZIRCON?

        Even the first modification of this rocket will have a range of about 500 km at a speed of 2,5 km / s, and with an increase in speed to 3,5 km / s, the range will triple. The United States does not have anything like Zircon and is not expected in the near future. It is worth saying that at such speeds no anti-aircraft missile systems can bring it down. So, the reaction time of the US Aegis air defense missile system is about 8-10 seconds. “Zircon” at a speed of 2 km / s during this time will fly up to 25 km, the air defense system will not have time to physically work out for this purpose.

        http://www.militarycolumnist.ru/russian-hipersonic-missile-zirkon/
    3. Sandor Clegane
      Sandor Clegane 29 August 2019 15: 55
      +5
      Quote: awg75
      another nail in the coffin of the USA

      there, read more than a ton of these nails ..... only the Yankees don’t even lie in a coffin .... ((.....
      1. Nevsky_ZU
        Nevsky_ZU 29 August 2019 18: 08
        +3
        Quote: Sandor Clegane
        Quote: awg75
        another nail in the coffin of the USA

        there, read more than a ton of these nails ..... only the Yankees don’t even lie in a coffin .... ((.....

        And their weapons are NGOs and Hollywood, and hello Maidan.
      2. Grits
        Grits 30 August 2019 01: 18
        0
        Quote: Sandor Clegane
        only the Yankees don’t lie in a coffin ....

        Apparently, they were badly persuaded. More convincing is necessary ...
    4. Reading
      Reading 29 August 2019 17: 53
      -2
      I doubt it very much.
    5. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 30 August 2019 02: 40
      +1
      One nail is not enough to drive hundreds or even thousands of such nails into the US coffin. For us, they have a lot of things prepared and not in single copies.
  2. Operator
    Operator 29 August 2019 15: 38
    +2
    "Zircon" with URB (universal upper stage) bully

    1. mark1
      mark1 29 August 2019 15: 42
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      (universal booster unit)
      The word "universal" is intriguing.
      1. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 15: 52
        +3
        There will be two variants of RCC Zircon. And Zircon will be able to work on ground targets.
        The Ministry of Defense will receive a miniature version of the Zircon hypersonic missile. First of all, small missile ships (RTOs) of the Karakurt and Buyan-M projects should arm it. Also, the rocket will be adapted for launches from a special container.

        "Miniature" will not greatly affect the basic characteristics of the rocket. In terms of slaughter power, it will hardly be inferior to its “elder sister”.

        Finally, anti-ship missiles can hit ground targets with previously known coordinates. Such capabilities are especially in demand in coastal areas where RTOs and submarines will have to oppose not only enemy ships, but also help their ground forces.

        https://iz.ru/833837/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/kompaktnyi-giperzvuk-vmf-poluchit-oblegchennye-rakety-tcirkon
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 17: 33
      +1
      In this photo, the rocket is very similar to the Koala airborne hypersonic missile, the KLVB receiver Meteorite-A. I honestly doubt that this is Zircon.
      1. NN52
        NN52 29 August 2019 21: 33
        +1
        The operator, as always, a fan of trolling ... his ....
    3. hydrox
      hydrox 29 August 2019 18: 03
      -1
      You know, the choice of carrier (MiG-35) is somehow more familiar and captivates with its reusability than using a one-time overclocking unit. Moreover, the MiG is also convenient with the possibility of waiting (with a possible change in purpose) - it is quite acceptable for patrolling international waters.
    4. Mimoprohodil
      Mimoprohodil 29 August 2019 20: 56
      +1
      Yes, here with the URB there will be a weight of more than 10 tons and a length of more than 14 meters. You shove it like in UKKS? This is not Zircon
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 30 August 2019 16: 38
        0
        Yes, with English-language comments ... I understand that the CIA knows everything, but ... It looks like their Wishlist
  3. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 29 August 2019 15: 39
    +1
    However, he refused to provide information on specific dates.
    Well stupid ... did not read about military secrets.
  4. ultra
    ultra 29 August 2019 15: 43
    -3
    Rogozin needs to take an example from Obnosov-less words, more work.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 29 August 2019 16: 52
      -1
      What does he have to do with it?
      1. ultra
        ultra 29 August 2019 17: 34
        -3
        He has nothing to do with it. He has nothing to do with it. laughing
        1. Mestny
          Mestny 29 August 2019 17: 40
          -1
          We both understand what we're talking about, right?
          You are trying to deploy another sprinkler-fan about power, I am trying to tell you that this should not be done everywhere. That the fervent struggle with the regime in this form makes its guide funny.
          1. ultra
            ultra 29 August 2019 17: 43
            -4
            Quote: Mestny
            You are trying to deploy another sprinkler-fan about power, I am trying to tell you that this should not be done everywhere. That the fervent struggle with the regime in this form makes its guide funny.

            I haven’t laughed like this for a long time !!!! wassat Can you tell me which embassy to go for the remuneration due to me? laughing
  5. Old26
    Old26 29 August 2019 15: 51
    +3
    Quote: Vladimir16
    "Previously, all missile launches were made using a ground test bench."
    Hi RSMD

    And where does the INF and the naval missile range? The missile was created and is being created primarily as a sea (sea-based). Tested from a ground stand in Nyonoks. No one has ever forbidden test benches at test sites under any agreements. And these stands at the training grounds have nothing to do with the contract.

    Quote: Nevsky_ZU
    Do not consider me spoiled by our "cartoons", but I would like the Zircon to fly even a little more than 9 Machs. Just in case))

    About TTX while silent, so as not to jinx it. Let the product complete without comment the entire test cycle, then we can talk about the appearance, and not put everywhere as an illustration the American X-51, and the performance characteristics. It’s too early to talk about this. Early.
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 16: 01
      +1
      And where does the INF and the naval missile range? The missile was created and is being created primarily as a sea (sea-based).

      So the Kyrgyz Caliber was also created as a marine, but it can also be landed, just like Zircon.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 29 August 2019 18: 09
        -1
        Zircon does not make sense to land, since each launch will be appreciably more expensive by using a single-stage accelerating unit.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 29 August 2019 20: 36
          0
          Quote: hydrox
          Zircon does not make sense to land, since each launch will be significantly more expensive by the use of a single-stage accelerating unit

          What are you talking about? Zircon is a sea-based rocket. Do we now have the sea much higher than the ground level?
          In general, the issue is solved by a resettable powder accelerator, as in Caliber. Its task is to throw the rocket out of the TPK, then ... and then there are options that depend on which site and how hypersonic speed is achieved. Until this moment is clarified, further reasoning is akin to fortune-telling on coffee grounds.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 29 August 2019 21: 50
            -1
            Hypersound, preparatory class.
            The ramjet engine starts working only when the speed M> 2,0 is reached, then the acceleration process goes on. Wherever you base the hyper, to run it, you must first overclock it, and then start it. That is why we are talking about the fact that today the most acceptable way to launch a hyper is the MiG-35 carrier. At the mortar start of Caliber, the hyper does not start.
            So see?
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 09
              0
              Quote: hydrox
              The ramjet engine starts to operate only when the speed M> 2,0 is reached

              Dear, I know this, that the start of the scramjet requires initial supersonic speed. Therefore wrote
              Quote: Gregory_45
              and then there are options that depend on which section and how hypersonic speed is achieved.

              You read the comments very carefully. If hypersonic sound is achieved by the motor method, then an acceleration step is necessary, if ballistic, then no. Those. Abaeli rocket to a height, at a dive, it will shortly reach supersonic. Is it clear now? I didn’t think that I would have to chew as a fifth grader.

              Quote: hydrox
              and today the MiG-35 carrier is the most acceptable way to launch hyper

              what the heck is the MiG-35? Not be in a hurry (or out of ignorance) with the MiG-31? And then it does not provide the conditions for launching the scramjet engine

              Now everything is clear?
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 30 August 2019 06: 28
                -1
                Well, I don’t know if there are dolbaks in the Russian army who will launch a rocket in order to force it to dive, but if you have a lot of free time, then continue, born on the same page.
                But it would be better for you to consult with Ukrainians :: big, you know the experts in the field of gliders. Or have you made contact with the mumba-yumba tribe?
                And inattention: yes, I have it! laughing
                1. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 30 August 2019 08: 09
                  0
                  Quote: hydrox
                  And inattention: yes, I have it!

                  that's all you are remarkable for
              2. hydrox
                hydrox 30 August 2019 06: 50
                -1
                Don't jump off the topic "Zircon" :: if you have a size 85 cap, then if you please answer the question: how does the Zircon ramjet engine start?
                1. hydrox
                  hydrox 30 August 2019 16: 42
                  0
                  As expected, he jumped down ...
                  He didn’t give an opportunity to look into the storehouse ... why was it hidden under the cap? No, it’s not the brain :: this substance has a different name, and standing next to it is unpleasant ... It turned out to be an inflatable cap! laughing
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 29 August 2019 20: 48
          +1
          Quote: hydrox
          Each start-up will be appreciably more expensive by using an accelerating one-time unit.

          That is, you essentially want to say that at the output we will get a Yu-71 with an upper stage? So the Vanguard already exists ... Can we still return to Zircon? 3M22 still differs from 15Yu71, even in "marking"! yes
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 29 August 2019 22: 00
            -2
            Still, these are devices for different purposes :: Zircon is cheap and dull, and the glider is still a class higher, and the tasks for it should be more complicated, and I would say more massive.
  6. Operator
    Operator 29 August 2019 16: 04
    -3
    Quote: Old26
    do not put the American X-51 everywhere as an illustration

    Where did you see the American X-51 in the photo from MAX? laughing
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 August 2019 16: 19
      -2
      Isn’t she?
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 August 2019 16: 52
        -3
        Open your eyes and count the number and area of ​​the keels of the "Zircon" and X-51.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 29 August 2019 16: 53
          -1
          I will count if I see a photo of Zircon. But so far it has not been published.
        2. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 29 August 2019 20: 37
          +2
          Quote: Operator
          Open your eyes and count the number and area of ​​the keels of the "Zircon" and the X-51

          you first show Zircon, so that was what to consider)
          1. Anton Yu
            Anton Yu 31 August 2019 14: 00
            0
            Here is a photo of Zircon and it has no bottom air intake

            here is the X-51
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 31 August 2019 14: 04
              0
              Quote: Anton Yu
              here is a photo of Zircon

              This is the layout of Bramos-2.

              Which, as has been said a hundred times, is not Zircon.
              And, for the hundred and first time - there is no reliable image of Zircon, just as there is no free photo of it.
              1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 16: 40
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      Where did you see the American X-51 in the photo from MAX?

      and what, there is a photo of Zircon? Give a check out))

      As illustrations for articles about Zircon, either slurred drawings or photos of the American X-51 are used. Zircon was not shown to the inhabitants.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Old26
    Old26 29 August 2019 16: 14
    +3
    Quote: Sky Strike fighter
    So the Kyrgyz Caliber was also created as a marine, but it can also be landed, just like Zircon.

    Maksim! The difference is that the rocket is created initially as a sea rocket, which can later be "ground". In this case, the "Zircon", tested in Nyonoks from the ground stand, did not violate any agreements. Firstly, because it is naval, and secondly, because no one prohibits having range launchers.

    Quote: Operator
    Quote: Old26
    do not put the American X-51 everywhere as an illustration

    Where did you see the American X-51 in the photo from MAX? laughing

    Do you think that the first photo in the article is not even a photograph, but a computer drawing made on the MAX? Plz, a footnote so that we can all look at what was demostered on the MAX
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 August 2019 16: 49
      -2
      I meant the photo from my comment.
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty 29 August 2019 16: 30
    -3
    Intensive tests also include launching on target ships, including moving ones, and firing protective fire! Years will pass, and, we will see these unique missile tests.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 August 2019 21: 12
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      Intensive tests also include launching on target ships, including moving ones, and firing protective fire!

      Interesting girls are dancing and waving handkerchiefs to us! (from)
      1. Of course there will be tests, but ... KC - long gone! But, so that from the target ship "defensive fire was fired!" - it's just fantastic !!!
      2. Now everything is limited to "telemetry", and we will not even be able to escort with the help of a fighter: we cannot keep up with the "dream"!
      3. The fact that the product will be with a powerful SU - no doubt. Otherwise, you won’t develop 9M - ramjet starts to work after supersonic, but for this you need a lot of fuel and it is better to burn it in the upper atmosphere, but there is little oxygen ... So it turns out that you can’t do without solid propellant! Especially when starting from an underwater position ...
      So, one can only guess what our kulibins are implementing in this "wunderwaffe" ... Maybe the plasma protection will smooth out the "dense air" of the atmosphere ... Or something else from the "nano-inappropriate"! bully
  9. Piramidon
    Piramidon 29 August 2019 16: 37
    0
    it is currently too early to talk about the creation of a ground-based Zircon missile for striking ground targets, since work on an anti-ship version of the missile has not yet been completed

    And what is the difficulty, I wonder?
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 18
      +2
      Quote: Piramidon
      And what is the difficulty, I wonder?

      well, you need to create a rocket first. Bring it to mass production. And then "land".
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 29 August 2019 22: 29
        +1
        I, of course, am not a rocket sailor and therefore never understood the complexity of placing ship missiles of the same "Caliber" on the ground. Is it really impossible to take and stupidly place the ship's launcher with all the personal belongings on the ground or on some kind of armored train? request
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 44
          +2
          Quote: Piramidon
          Is it really impossible to take and stupidly place a shipboard launcher with all the quits on the ground or on some sort of armored train?

          can. But not optimal. Moreover, some marine pieces are not applicable on land (for example, wet start)

          The article is not about that. It is said that first you need to create the missile itself (and Zircon, as it happened, was originally created as a sea-based missile). They will create it - then they will create the land (and possibly aviation) version as well. It's about that.
        2. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 46
          0
          Quote: Piramidon
          I never understood the complexity of placing ship missiles of the same "Caliber" on the ground

          They are not here. The rocket starts from TPK. Look at Iskander in the version with KR. Isn't Caliber a land variant? Or a container club?
        3. Grits
          Grits 30 August 2019 01: 37
          0
          Quote: Piramidon
          Is it really impossible to take and stupidly place a shipboard launcher with all the quits on the ground or on some sort of armored train?

          So I think the same way. Moreover, an anti-ship missile is a priori more complicated than a ground missile. And if this missile does not have the task of destroying moving targets, then even easier.
  10. Operator
    Operator 29 August 2019 16: 50
    -4
    Quote: Gregory_45
    have a photo of zircon?

    See the photo of the poster from MAX posted in my comment laughing
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 August 2019 16: 55
      0
      On the poster is not a photo, but a diagram.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 August 2019 17: 21
        -4
        Here is a photo for you
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 17: 26
          +1
          Photo Bramos 2 and there is a photo of Zircon.
          1. Mimoprohodil
            Mimoprohodil 29 August 2019 21: 02
            +1
            Nonsense. Bramos makes NGO engineering, Zircon makes KTRV
          2. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 29 August 2019 21: 18
            0
            Quote: Sky Strike fighter
            Bramos 2 and there is a photo of Zircon

            Brahmos hypersonic? no? They wrote another nonsense
            1. Sky strike fighter
              Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 21: 37
              -2
              Quote: Gregory_45
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              Bramos 2 and there is a photo of Zircon

              Brahmos hypersonic? no? They wrote another nonsense

              Bramos is not hypersonic, it is an export modification of Onyx, but Bramos 2 is hypersonic, it will already be an export modification of Zircon.
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 16
                +1
                Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                but Bramos 2 hypersonic, it will already be an export modification of Zircon

                There is an assumption that the joint development is based on a system created primarily for the Russian Armed Forces at NPO Mashinostroyenia - a missile system with a Zircon anti-ship missile system. Now, most experts believe that the identification of the BrahMos-II complex as an analogue of the Zircon anti-ship missile system is either a hoax or just a mistake.
        2. Grits
          Grits 30 August 2019 01: 39
          0
          Quote: Operator
          Here is a photo for you

          And where is the rocket itself, and where is the booster block?
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 August 2019 11: 46
            -1
            Rocket "Zircon" - orange (instead of wings it has a supporting body).
      2. Potato
        Potato 30 August 2019 06: 51
        -3
        Warrior wow, you still have critical thinking ...

        Petrel, Poseidons, Zircon ... Not even a photo. Since the announcement, the head of state has not been adopted. The characteristics and feasibility of such weapons are doubtful. The economic situation of the developing country is precarious, scientific - not the most advanced. And then suddenly an atomic aircraft and hypersonic flight in the atmosphere for a long time. Oh well...
    2. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 20: 42
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      See the photo of the poster from MAX posted in my comment

      your photo, or rather a drawing from the house of pioneers, you can ... you understand what you can do with it. Show the real product? no? Well, what are we talking about? Why are you forging? Are you a demagogue and a professional liar?
      There is no Zircon photo and never was. Plastic mockups and comp. do not show the schedule. Why is there a real X-51 photo, but does Zircon exist only in the form of models and drawings? Who can guarantee that the layout and drawing are true?
      1. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter 29 August 2019 21: 49
        -1
        There is no Zircon photo and never was.

        https://vpk.name/library/brahmos-2.html?images
        Plastic mockups and comp. do not show the schedule.

        Well, excuse me. Real Zircon in metal will not be shown to you, but with the help of a photo layout of Bramos 2 you can have an idea of ​​how it looks.
        Why is there a real X-51 photo, but does Zircon exist only in the form of models and drawings?

        Because the matter with the X-51 did not go far and it is shown approximately as a mockup. And Zircon is a really tested hypersonic missile, which is naturally classified.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 13
          +2
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          A photo of a Bramos 2 layout can have an idea of ​​how it looks.

          Bramos is not Zircon. For many reasons, you do not understand.

          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          X-51 didn’t go far and is shown as a model

          X-51 is not a layout, but a real flying rocket.

          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          And Zircon is a really tested hypersonic rocket that is naturally classified

          what I’m talking about. Her photo is not, but some especially gifted ones try to prove and show how she looks. It’s not important for me to know how the rocket looks (the time will come - we will find out), I’m trying to convey that its shape is unknown.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Anton Yu
        Anton Yu 31 August 2019 14: 12
        0
        And in your opinion Zircon will have radically different aerodynamic forms from the X-51? Can you draw us your fantasies.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 31 August 2019 14: 17
          0
          Quote: Anton Yu
          And in your opinion Zircon will have radically different aerodynamic forms from the X-51?

          No, it will not fundamentally differ. There will be the same supporting body (fuselage). But in the details - it will undoubtedly be different.
          Quote: Anton Yu
          Can you draw us your fantasies

          fantasies are not for me. A photo of Zircon will appear - then we'll see. And if you guess, it's a fortune teller.
    3. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 21: 13
      0
      Quote: Operator
      See the photo of the poster from MAX posted in my comment

      are you inadequate? you are asked to bring a photo of the real product, not a slurred layout. There is a photo of X-51, no Zircon, and never has been.

      By the way, how the layout and the final product differ, please look at the first versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27. Sounds like a real flying airplane? There, even the layout is not integral! No wonder the Su-27 is called twice-born.


      Either you pretend or you don’t really understand what they are talking about with you.
  11. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 16: 59
    0
    If you look at it, then everything is not so sad for USNAVY: the flight profile is most likely high-altitude, if the radar is on alert, then it is identified 200-250 kilometers away, the crew of the ship will have enough time to smoke a third of a cigarette or read "Our Father" twice.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 August 2019 17: 11
      0
      The hypersonic (middle) section will be high-altitude, otherwise it will burn in the atmosphere. And the train behind the rocket will visually be pretty up to par, too. At the terminal site, you still have to slow down to 2-3 MAX. Otherwise, do not aim, and do not hit.
      But in any case, such a missile is dangerous. Even if it is detected from afar and braked. It's hard to shoot down.
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 29 August 2019 17: 35
        -1
        A rocket flies like any hypersonic one surrounded by a cloud of plasma, which plays the role of additional protection! So it will not burn!
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 29 August 2019 18: 03
          0
          This is something new. smile
          Is plasma cold? Cools the rocket somehow? belay
      2. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 33
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The hypersonic (middle) section will be high-altitude, otherwise it will burn in the atmosphere.

        let me debate. Yes, high-altitude flight is the easiest solution. Although it is possible to realize a flight at a relatively low altitude. Now there are materials that can withstand heating up to 4 thousand degrees, since the rocket does not fly for long - it takes several minutes from the force. True, the materials are insanely expensive.

        Quote: voyaka uh
        And the train behind the rocket will visually be pretty up to par, too.

        it doesn’t matter. Hypersonic ammunition may be noticeable, since there was nothing to intercept it from?

        Quote: voyaka uh
        Otherwise, do not aim, and do not hit.

        the problem with control and guidance, as you see, is the main one in this type of weapon (not counting the engine installation). Yes, yes, physicists and technologists will have to sweat pretty much. Either they’ll come up with something completely new, or they’ll have to shoot at predetermined coordinates, hoping for speed and that, thanks to it (speed), the target does not have time to leave the affected area (if the target is mobile). Those. overcome the active section at high supersonic speed (while maintaining control), and accelerate to hypersound directly when attacking the target.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 29 August 2019 23: 13
          -1
          "and accelerate to hypersound directly when attacking the target" ////
          -----
          Last-minute acceleration is given by rockets when the target is already firmly
          captured by GOS. This is how the missiles of the Iron Dome missiles work, for example.
          But usually, in order to capture the target of your GOS, you must first slow down.
          Even if the work according to previously entered coordinates - at the last moment
          braking and correction.
          1. D16
            D16 30 August 2019 12: 02
            0
            Last-minute acceleration is given by rockets when the target is already firmly
            captured by GOS. This is how the missiles of the Iron Dome missiles work, for example.
            But usually, in order to capture the target of your GOS, you must first slow down.

            Acceleration at the terminal section is received by one of the Caliber family anti-ship missiles. But on the marching section it is a subsonic missile. SAM and EXPLOSIVES do not brake. A multi-mode TT engine was used there, operating throughout the flight. GOS of such missiles captures the target a few seconds before the explosion, and the closer it is brought in by radio correction the better. Accelerating can be a bit late.
            Even if you work according to previously entered coordinates - at the last moment braking and correction.

            Can you give an example of such a hypersonic rocket? Pershing not to offer wink
      3. Grits
        Grits 30 August 2019 01: 45
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        And the train behind the rocket will visually be pretty up to par, too.

        Well, fine. Few people manage to see death inevitably approaching you.
      4. D16
        D16 30 August 2019 11: 30
        0
        At the terminal site, you still have to slow down to 2-3 MAX. Otherwise, do not aim, and do not hit.

        Pershing was slowed down due to the need to use the radar in the final section. Why did you decide that this guidance method was used in Zircon?
  12. Old26
    Old26 29 August 2019 17: 41
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    I meant the photo from my comment.

    Andrew! You also have not a photograph of "Zircon", but a kind of indistinct drawing, which gives absolutely no idea of ​​the appearance of the product. And the layout is also not ice. This is unclear...

    Quote: E.S.
    If you look at it, then everything is not so sad for USNAVY: the flight profile is most likely high-altitude, if the radar is on alert, then it is identified 200-250 kilometers away, the crew of the ship will have enough time to smoke a third of a cigarette or read "Our Father" twice.

    The fact that it is high-rise is without a doubt. "Evil tongues" say that the marching height of hypersonic aircraft will be somewhere on the order of 40 km. Detection range? Now the Aegis radar has a warhead detection range of about 1000 km. This is for the AN / SPY-1 radar (sorry, I don't remember the modification), Now a new radar is being tested to replace this one - AN / SPY-6. The detection range has almost tripled. That is, the detection range is as soon as it comes out from behind the radio horizon
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 August 2019 19: 31
      -4
      Quote: Old26
      the layout is also not ice

      Graduates of the KLAA MAI USSR faculty are quite enough laughing
  13. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 17: 53
    +4
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The hypersonic (middle) section will be high-altitude, otherwise it will burn in the atmosphere. And the train behind the rocket will visually be pretty up to par, too. At the terminal site, you still have to slow down to 2-3 MAX. Otherwise, do not aim, and do not hit.
    But in any case, such a missile is dangerous. Even if it is detected from afar and braked. It's hard to shoot down.

    The straightforwardness of thinking and the stereotypedness of technical solutions is an immanent property of a constructor-compiler, but a sign of professional unfitness when searching for a beautiful solution to problems of system design
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 August 2019 18: 05
      +2
      Beautiful phrase. As if her not a man, but an AI compiled! Respect hi
    2. lucul
      lucul 29 August 2019 18: 31
      -2
      The straightforwardness of thinking and the stereotypedness of technical solutions is an immanent property of a constructor-compiler, but a sign of professional unfitness when searching for a beautiful solution to problems of system design

      No need to give out secrets))))
  14. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 18: 26
    0
    Quote: Old26
    Quote: Operator
    I meant the photo from my comment.

    Andrew! You also have not a photograph of "Zircon", but a kind of indistinct drawing, which gives absolutely no idea of ​​the appearance of the product. And the layout is also not ice. This is unclear...

    Quote: E.S.
    If you look at it, then everything is not so sad for USNAVY: the flight profile is most likely high-altitude, if the radar is on alert, then it is identified 200-250 kilometers away, the crew of the ship will have enough time to smoke a third of a cigarette or read "Our Father" twice.

    The fact that it is high-rise is without a doubt. "Evil tongues" say that the marching height of hypersonic aircraft will be somewhere on the order of 40 km. Detection range? Now the Aegis radar has a warhead detection range of about 1000 km. This is for the AN / SPY-1 radar (sorry, I don't remember the modification), Now a new radar is being tested to replace this one - AN / SPY-6. The detection range has almost tripled. That is, the detection range is as soon as it comes out from behind the radio horizon

    And I said g, "detection", but "identification" :-)
    And 40 km is kosher altitude, at a given altitude at the moment it is very inconvenient for interception
  15. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 18: 37
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Beautiful phrase. As if her not a man, but an AI compiled! Respect hi

    "Artificial intelligence is practiced by those who lack the natural" (c) Faculty of CMC MSU :-)
  16. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 18: 41
    0
    Quote: lucul
    The straightforwardness of thinking and the stereotypedness of technical solutions is an immanent property of a constructor-compiler, but a sign of professional unfitness when searching for a beautiful solution to problems of system design

    No need to give out secrets))))

    They learned our secrets twice - once the secrets of STELS from Ufimtsev, the other time the secrets of the Yak-141.
    Both times it turned out just fine!
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 37
      +3
      Quote: E.S.
      another time the secrets of the Yak-141

      what are you saying))) And what did the Yankees learn from the Yak-141 documentation?
  17. Old26
    Old26 29 August 2019 19: 26
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    As well as air. What the Americans used all this time, increasing the number and various modifications of "Tomahawks"

    In fact, as far as I remember, "tomahawks" were launched from an air platform only a few times during testing. Further only from sea

    Quote: svp67
    Actually, these missiles are not the Novator profile, he specializes in anti-aircraft missiles, but they did it, it turned out and surprisingly, they put it into service

    And according to the air-based KR EMNIP

    Quote: codetalker
    Why are you throwing yourself at people? No one claims that these tests violated the INF Treaty. By “Hello, the RSMD” means that it is not very far from testing on a ground test bench to placing this anti-ship missile system on a ground control panel.

    As much as from any other medium. And maybe more

    Quote: hydrox
    Zircon does not make sense to land, since each launch will be appreciably more expensive by using a single-stage accelerating unit.

    You are wrong, comrade. And from the ship’s launch accelerator will be used, and from the aircraft’s accelerator too ... The complex is created as interspecific, but what kind of carriers will be carriers except for ships and boats is unknown

    Quote: E.S.
    And I said g, "detection", but "identification" :-)
    And 40 km is kosher altitude, at a given altitude at the moment it is very inconvenient for interception

    I drew attention to this, Sergey! I shifted the emphasis and identification to detection only because I think that in the next 10 years it will not be very acute. It is unlikely that many countries will have hypersonic missiles in service during this period. So the issue of identification will not be so acute.
  18. Old26
    Old26 29 August 2019 20: 50
    +3
    Quote: Gregory_45
    What are you talking about? Zircon is a sea-based rocket. Do we now have the sea much higher than the ground level?
    In general, the issue is solved by a resettable powder accelerator, as in Caliber. Its task is to throw the rocket out of the TPK, then ... and then there are options that depend on which site and how hypersonic speed is achieved. Until this moment is clarified, further reasoning is akin to fortune-telling on coffee grounds.

    There is a slight difference. The accelerator on the "Caliber" works for several seconds and its task is not only to throw the missile out of the TPK, but also to give it a certain speed and altitude. After that, the rocket descends and goes to the target at a marching altitude.
    The "Zircon" task of the accelerator is not only to throw it out of the TPK, but also to accelerate to the speeds at which the direct flow will be turned on

    Quote: hydrox
    You know, the choice of carrier (MiG-35) is somehow more familiar and captivates with its reusability than using a one-time overclocking unit. Moreover, the MiG is also convenient with the possibility of waiting (with a possible change in purpose) - it is quite acceptable for patrolling international waters.

    But it is unlikely that he will give a starting impulse to the rocket, so that the direct-flow pump starts to work for it. So a start-up is needed anyway
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 40
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      but also to accelerate to the speeds at which the inclusion of the ramjet

      alas, the accelerator is not capable of this. Either the first stage is needed, or acceleration to hypersound will occur in a ballistic manner, i.e. a simple dive of a rocket dispersed to supersonicity.
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 30 August 2019 08: 00
      -1
      Quote: Old26
      But it is unlikely that he will give a starting impulse to the rocket, so that the direct-flow pump starts to work for it. So a start-up is needed anyway


      In any case, it’s true, but it’s one thing to give the start-up kick a small accelerator, and it’s quite another to bring it to a height from which the launch will make economic sense: it’s not only hardware costs per output stage, but also tons of fuel, and some time for aiming.
      And besides, hyperbodies don’t go, like Axes, at low marching heights, albeit at least 40 km, but hyper must be abandoned.
      1. D16
        D16 30 August 2019 13: 13
        0
        If the "mini" version is going to be used with RTOs, then several options arise:
        1. Small Zircon with a large accelerator. One kick, but strong.
        2. A standard starter from Caliber + TT engine in the ramjet combustion chamber, as it was at Mosquitoes. Get two kicks.
        3. There is no ramjet as in the Dagger. The result is a marine "mini" Dagger in caliber 533 mm. The accelerator can be from Caliber, and maybe without it.
  19. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 22: 42
    -2
    Quote: Gregory_45
    Quote: E.S.
    another time the secrets of the Yak-141

    what are you saying))) And what did the Yankees learn from the Yak-141 documentation?

    How to make a perfectly unreasonable plane
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 29 August 2019 22: 53
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      How to make a perfectly unreasonable plane

      here it’s precisely the Yak-141 is not at work, this is a joint invention of the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin
    2. Grits
      Grits 30 August 2019 01: 59
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      How to make a perfectly unreasonable plane

      I do not agree. Yak-141 was a very good plane. We still do not have such. Yes, and the F-35, despite the fact that poop is thrown hard at him, is a very good plane. So both of these aircraft are very reasonable. I think you will find the performance characteristics yourself.
  20. E.S.
    E.S. 29 August 2019 22: 57
    -1
    Quote: Gregory_45
    Quote: E.S.
    How to make a perfectly unreasonable plane

    here it’s precisely the Yak-141 is not at work, this is a joint invention of the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin

    For two years, Lokhkid Martyn opened the door with his foot and poked everything he could from Yakovlev Design Bureau immediately before the announcement of his work. Oh, and I was nervous then, I was all afraid that Monica would win the tender, but, thank God, it cost
  21. Old26
    Old26 30 August 2019 00: 20
    +2
    Quote: Gregory_45
    let me debate. Yes, high-altitude flight is the easiest solution. Although it is possible to realize a flight at a relatively low altitude. Now there are materials that can withstand heating up to 4 thousand degrees, since the rocket does not fly for long - it takes several minutes from the force. True, the materials are insanely expensive.

    I somehow cited a table of temperature versus speed and altitude. In the lower atmosphere, the temperature at a speed of 10M will be about 6000 degrees Celsius. At a speed of 5M about 4000 degrees. There are probably materials capable of holding this temperature (4000) for a short period of time. Only they are monstrously expensive. And the rocket will not be in a single copy? We don’t want to have a rocket at the price of half a billion dollars ???

    Quote: Gregory_45
    alas, the accelerator is not capable of this. Either the first stage is needed, or acceleration to hypersound will occur in a ballistic manner, i.e. a simple dive of a rocket dispersed to supersonicity.

    I wrote a little clumsily. On the MIG-35 such a missile will require an accelerator, an accelerating stage. Not in the literal sense of the starter who knocks the product out of the TPK. As well as in any other variant of basing an accelerating step must be present
  22. Vladimir Nizhegorodsky
    Vladimir Nizhegorodsky 30 August 2019 02: 20
    -2
    "ZIRCON" WILL POWER THEIR AIRCRAFT GROUP.
    THERE DO NOT HAVE ANALOGUES.
    AND YEARS 5-7 WILL NOT.
    AND ONE EVERYTHING INTERESTING.
  23. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 30 August 2019 08: 34
    +1
    We need to finish quickly. I think it makes sense to revive the Oka ...
  24. E.S.
    E.S. 30 August 2019 10: 15
    0
    Quote: Gritsa
    Quote: E.S.
    How to make a perfectly unreasonable plane

    I do not agree. Yak-141 was a very good plane. We still do not have such. Yes, and the F-35, despite the fact that poop is thrown hard at him, is a very good plane. So both of these aircraft are very reasonable. I think you will find the performance characteristics yourself.

    An airplane is something that flies itself, and not an iPhone with wings, one carcass of which they want to plug three holes at once
  25. Old26
    Old26 30 August 2019 14: 26
    +3
    Quote: hydrox
    Still, these are devices for different purposes :: Zircon is cheap and dull, and the glider is still a class higher, and the tasks for it should be more complicated, and I would say more massive.

    In fact, "Zircon" is essentially more complicated and expensive in comparison with the same "Vanguard". The ramjet hypersonic aircraft on the Zircon will always be more expensive and more complex than the small jet (rocket) engines on the Avangard.
    The problems that are solved when working with "Zircon" are much more complicated than the problems of "Vanguard". The latter has the task of maneuvering and ultimately trying to hit the target, the Zircon has the task of flying at hypersonic speeds with all the ensuing problems.
    Avangard has a maximum inertial guidance system with some possible software solutions, Zircon's task is to ensure that its guidance system captures the target. Capturing from an altitude of 40 km is hardly possible, and only this homing system will be able to work stably only at supersonic speeds, after the completion of the plasma formation stage. And many more problems can be found
    So I don’t think Zircon is cheap and dull compared to the avant-garde. Quite the opposite.

    Quote: Dzafdet
    We need to finish quickly. I think it makes sense to revive the Oka ...

    What's the point? Iskander is an order of magnitude more modern and with significant modernization potential. Why go back to technology almost 40 years ago