Military Review

What are sergeants grumbling about?

196
Communicating on trips, in the pauses between filming, you unwittingly open your ears so that you are like Cheburashka and listen. You listen, because it is in such pauses that sometimes you get so much information for thought ...


Our arrival at the training ground for large-caliber mortar bombers was no exception. From our general point of view, the trip was a success, the readers went in, and someone directly got such a rather big piece of the Nostalgia cake.

But we returned puzzled. And seen and heard.

Complaints about incoming replenishment. For those who are trained by these vicious-looking contract sergeants.



In general, a few words should be said about them separately. In fact - the cutest people. Absolutely not malicious, polite and correct. Rummaging through the bushes, the very such appeal to the young growth that I heard was “young people”. More precisely, "young people, will you move, or will I **** you?"

I doubt, to be honest, that Comrade Sergeant would fulfill his promise. Not that army today, not those orders. You know, sometimes it's a pity.

We talked a lot about this topic. Our army has really changed. And in many ways - in a very good way. The use of soldier’s labor for personal purposes has become a thing of the past; frankly stupid jobs such as “digging from here until lunch” have actually become much less, indeed, only a year in order to educate a soldier at least something.

And they teach.

If we take artillery as an example, where we were recently, then it’s generally difficult. It’s clear that there are loaders and trays there - you can take anyone, and the gunner doesn’t have much work, although you already need to understand, at least approximately, where the mine will fly.

So what do those who teach to the best of their ability and ability complain?

Complaints rained down on those from which to make soldiers.

The main problem of today is the psychological component of the soldier. What is a modern conscript? A certain very amorphous substance, weak-willed (with rare exceptions), uninitialized and not knowing anything.

I watched. Really some kind of lost.

It’s a long time to describe, but in fact these young people, torn off the Internet, are a very sad sight. I would say in the style of a donkey Eeyore: "heartbreaking." In reality, the cry “Why are you like that!” Was tearing my soul apart, watching how young fighters tried to solve the problem of transferring mines from one installation to another.

Yes, you just had to remove one mine from the car, put it in a box, carry 50-60 meters and that’s all. This ugly action took 20 minutes and the resources of eight and a half people. Half is me, because I could not stand it and began to give advice. Comrade Senior Sergeant had already choked.

Considerations of zero. Full. To understand how to put your foot in the right way, how to direct this damn box so as not to tear everything down the road is a problem.

Physical training is disgusting. Seven people carried the box to another machine 10 minutes. With two stops. Yes, there were a couple of pretty little guys like that, the photo shows that there should be a silushka. One even had an intellect and a thinker, but the rest of the team more than compensated.

137 kg weighs a mine. Well, let 10-15 kg weigh the box. Total - 150. 150 kg per 7 person - this is 22 kg per person. Yes, it’s inconvenient if you don’t know how to take it correctly. The sergeant tried to explain, no one understood, therefore he was tormented.

It is clear that in real life the box was carried from the rack in the warehouse to the car, the car drove up close to the mortar and everything in that vein. And here is such an ambush: it is necessary to transfer mines to the main installation. Compensate for the ammunition that went into sighting, that is, two mines.

As a result, we watched a very mournful sight.



Dear readers from among those whose heart hurts for their own army, we clearly have a problem. And what to do with it is not very clear yet.

As I am constantly told, more precisely, they used to say, now they are screaming, the last 3-4 of the year the army is consuming biomass. These are not potential advocates, this is a real biomass that does not know how, has not been trained in anything, and most importantly - it does not need all this at all.

To strain your year is all.

That's noticeable. It is read in the eyes. It is said drooping and not straightened shoulders and lowered heads.

About three years ago, in the Black Knives brigade, we shot a report about about the same recruits who still could not do anything, and got kneaded with the shooting. For the first time on the move, they jumped out of an infantry fighting vehicle and into a chain turned around not in the field, but in the field. And what sergeants were in Boguchar ... Arrogant, evil-minded, contemptuous. Any mom from KSM there would have been enough of a relative from those epithets with which the "double basses" rewarded the youngsters.

And it worked. And in the end, anger ignited, and the guys did everything fine. And no complaints, although the opportunity to complain quietly was enough. On the contrary, it was clear that sergeants were respected.

I do not call for verbal artillery preparation, but ... Sometimes it is necessary. For artillerymen, for educated and almost cultural people (it’s normal, of course, it happens that organoids are just the size of a mine for the Tulip, but this is an army) isn’t it accepted ...

And in the end, these are ... Longing. They have torn away from the Internet, a friend and adviser, but they have not yet taught how to use their heads simply.

And the conclusion is not very pleasant. This is not an army, but some kind of kindergarten / boarding house for noble maidens. Where parents who did not attach the little finger to the upbringing and preparation of their child, just shed it with the words "there at least do something from you!".

I heard this phrase myself. Not a “man,” but “at least something.”

I apologize, our army is an educational institution such as a cadet school? Or a charitable institution for the education of worthless? At the expense of the budget?

Yes, I'm really scared from these amoebas that fall into the troops. They should be taught there in just a year to use sometimes very complex equipment. With the prospect that they will not forget it.

They will not forget, right? Yeah, shchazz ... Let’s just demobilize and hold on to the smartphone hands. And they will be happy. And to us - an organism that has been exhausted and that all the little that has been taught to it will be quickly forgotten.

Sadly, this is a reality.

Of course, there is a small aspect here. This is a contract. It is clear that the army must be professional, because the main thing is the contract soldiers. A man signed a contract - and that’s all, for five years you can teach, train and all that.

Today, the conscript army is seen as a filter for those who can, and most importantly, want to serve further. Probably ok. Especially when there is someone to choose from.

While there. Or still there.

In fact, the shop may close very, very soon. When this muddy stream from amorphous bodies of ignoramuses and unintelligence will amount to 99% of the draft. Maybe? Yes easily. And nobody cares.

I watched for a long time, listened for a long time, and now I really realized that I was too late to sound the alarm.

Indeed, what now to do? What to do tomorrow, when these Internet ones will make up the whole mass of appeal? Where to run if the simplest and unicellular are our everything tomorrow?

And there seems to be no one to claim. Parents? And they plow, because figs in terms of free education. Kids need to be taught. School / gymnasium / lyceum? Well, in the open they say that everything, the shop has closed, teachers now only teach. Institutes / Academies? Do not even laugh.

All primary training ordered a long life. This is not known for the first day, but it’s only three years since we started trying to digest these fruits.

The army is still coping. The last Soviet generations so far seem to be nothing. But they, excuse me, are all. They will leave the scene soon. And then?

Further, the warm and gentle waves of the Internet will grow us radiolarians, ciliates, flagella and other organisms that will try to do something like this in terms of protecting our homeland.

No, it’s clear that with proper processing they will do everything they can. Another question: how much can they? And is that enough?
Really thing rubbish. And while I can’t find the clearance. Maybe, of course, someone will have lighter thoughts, but this “someone” should sit in the Kremlin and understand the essence of the problem.
Author:
196 comments
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 2 September 2019 05: 46
    +27
    I had such helpers at work ... they don’t know a damn thing ... they don’t understand ... no initiative ... come on ... I don’t want to work in the sweat ... and I need to constantly monitor them so that I don’t crippled ... one hemorrhoid from them with rare exception.
    These are the realities of educating young people in the environment in which they grew up. everything is ready ... until from early childhood they take the course of a young soldier there will be little sense in them.
    1. AUL
      AUL 2 September 2019 07: 19
      +31
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      These are the realities of educating young people in the environment in which they grew up. on everything ready ...

      IMHO, Roman somewhat exaggerates, but not much. And, most importantly, these ciliates are a phenomenon not only in the army. After the demobilization, they return home and merge into civilian life, remaining all the same ciliates. And this is scary!
      1. Evil543
        Evil543 2 September 2019 07: 51
        +9
        Just look at the drill in DOSAAF, you can not go to the circus, clowns on the parade ground, and the poor officer ...
        1. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 2 September 2019 09: 54
          +38
          The fact that the weak call is not to blame for the Internet and computers with smartphones is the fault of the education and training system in Russia - from school to the university and parents. Unified state examination, the lack of labor training and inculcation of self-service skills, cleaning of classes, the absence of labor duties at home, just gives rise to such inert ineptitude.
          I recall the years of work as the shop manager at the plant in the late 70s: once after vocational school 10 turners were sent - young boys 17-18 years old. How many of them do you think started normally, and most importantly, work responsibly? ONE - from the village, who came to study in the city and lived in a working hostel, and who had no one to rely on except for himself. The rest of the city, zanyanki in families, trained in vocational schools on full state support, everything is ready - from food to clothing, came to the factory with the same open mouth that someone would just feed and dress them, pay wages without requiring the amount of work . Breaking of consciousness for the young was the strongest - they hardly began to realize that they now need to work independently, and only by work receive remuneration - a salary.
          The same is true in the Army - the pampered generation is just beginning to understand that they are beginning to ask for an adult for service and work. Earlier, in 2 years of service, this delicacy of childhood was outlived by military service, the skill of acquired strict discipline and military specialty. And now, what can a year of service give them? They cannot even really master the military specialty - only at work "bring it - give it". They will not have time to get used to the service, the demobilization has already rolled up, what kind of discipline is there - it's time to get home.
          1. karabass
            karabass 2 September 2019 15: 56
            -6
            Why are you exaggerating so much - I agree about work, but we all (not only young people) have this tradition, we already pay Uzbeks more than Russians, because Russians work twice as well. And you are wrong about the army ALL YEAR ROUND! in the barracks position - you can prepare anyone! For officers with rare exceptions, this is not necessary, that's all
            1. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 2 September 2019 17: 03
              +10
              Why do you write for officers? Did you serve as an officer yourself? It is unprofitable for any commanders to have clumsy idlers, violators of discipline in their units.
              Your "WHOLE YEAR" is decomposed into parts: a course for a young soldier, training, and at best half a year remains for a combat unit. What can be done to correct the gaps in the education of young people during this period? Very few.
              In general, there is a general impression after the destruction of the CWP in school, military departments in civilian universities, reducing the service life to 1 year, in the creation of various kinds of "scientific", production "and other companies, various courses in civilian universities for training reserve soldiers and sergeants instead of active service , the destruction of the mobilization reserve, the reduction of the command and officer staff through the dismissal and reduction of the number of military educational institutions at times, the Army as such, with the destruction of the time-tested divisional-regimental structure, rear army structures, etc., that this capitalist power in Russia does not need a strong an efficient Army, this government is simply afraid of an armed people, "a man with a gun."
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 2 September 2019 17: 26
                0
                Quote: vladimirZ
                What can be done, corrected in the gaps in the education of young people over this period? Very few.

                Lots of.
                Sometimes they didn’t recognize me on my first cadet vacation 8)))
                They drove like goat goats.
                And we still have nothing. A classmate studied in Omsk. He was generally like an alien 8)))))) In the eyes of the mute question "is it really all over until everything is over" 8)))
                1. vladimirZ
                  vladimirZ 2 September 2019 17: 47
                  +6
                  Do not compare the military school where you voluntarily entered with a desire to master military affairs and get a profession, and called up on the call "if only a year passes."
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 2 September 2019 17: 52
                    +8
                    Quote: vladimirZ
                    Do not compare the military school where you voluntarily entered with a desire to master military affairs and get a profession, and called up on the call "if only a year passes."

                    What, in fact, is the question. That is, officers can neither interest nor force. Q.E.D.
                    At one time, the deputy regiment commander liked to take the young from quarantine to the parade ground, point to the mountains in the east and say "you see the mountains, behind them Chechnya, and if you are unlucky, you will fight there." You want to live ...
                    1. vladimirZ
                      vladimirZ 2 September 2019 18: 11
                      +7
                      What, in fact, is the question. That is, officers can neither interest nor force. Q.E.D. - Shovels

                      For half a year, yes. For 2 of the year you want, you don’t want, an army soldier under the influence of commanders, officers changed his character, studied military affairs, discipline.
                      Especially when the service was a constant responsible work and duty, for example, like in our aviation: if you want to, you don’t want to, but the plane must be prepared for combat training flights at any time of the day, and mechanic soldiers along with the officers took part in this, both on flights and on preliminary preparation for flights. Yes, under the control of officers, but they did their responsible work independently.
                      And now, whom can a soldier of the 1 conscript be close to the aircraft? Only in ShMAS it is necessary to learn specialties for six months, and what remains on the combat regiment? Why do we need such a mechanic in the part, which in six months will go on demobilization? A pointless hassle, a waste of time and the strength of officers.
              2. d1975
                d1975 2 September 2019 22: 01
                +1
                Well, they really definitely said, but who rules and does not change anything, is Yeltsin already there? I am a former teacher of FC, now I work as a trainer for 15 years at school, I know about AF completely. I don’t understand at all who is serving there right now, if we don’t have a PV-normal system, it’s just killed! YES and it was necessary to start with the Parents, half the children are 90, and then in general .... am
            2. O. Bender
              O. Bender 6 September 2019 12: 02
              0
              It’s not possible to train a specialist capable of completing a combat mission in one year. There are many reasons here. I know from personal experience that one year is very short, with the current development of weapons and even a motorized infantry infantry soldier, I’m sorry to train him so that he would didn’t become 200m in the first five minutes of the battle, it took time, time. And about the fact that officers did not need to train drugs, as I saw few, the percentage of amoebas and nonsense is almost the same everywhere.
              1. karabass
                karabass 6 September 2019 15: 45
                0
                So the officers need to change the training style! Zach can be prepared at the barracks of the astronaut, you can learn Chinese for 8 hours a day, and if the sergeant goes to the ear
                And our officers complain - kmb, training, etc. so develop a new training methodology, bring it to generals, etc.
          2. sunzhenets
            sunzhenets 8 September 2019 10: 52
            +3
            Quote: vladimirZ
            The fact that the weak call is not to blame for the Internet and computers with smartphones is the fault of the education and training system in Russia - from school to the university and parents. Unified state examination, the lack of labor training and inculcation of self-service skills, cleaning of classes, the absence of labor duties at home, just gives rise to such inert ineptitude.

            I would add the lack of NVP and physical training. And to the short term of service, the keen eye of the prosecutor’s office is added, because of which officers and sergeants-contract soldiers do not blame conscripts, because nobody wants to fly out of service because of a complaint. Therefore, the most important thing is that nothing happens to conscripts.
            The son served urgent in 2015-16. After serving 3 weeks, he calls home on Sunday evening, tells how the day went.
            - Before lunch, we asked the officer, and he drove us to the stadium to work out.
            I recall the Gaižiūnai training - at the 3rd week of service, it would not have occurred to me to ask someone to take me to the stadium.
            - What do you mean, in the middle of the week FIZO is missing?
            - And we have no FIZO in the middle of the week. It used to be, and then on the cross one body fell, scratched his hands, and the officer was torn off. Therefore, we barely persuaded our ...
            1. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 8 September 2019 12: 11
              0
              I agree that you need both physical and CWP. But without increasing the service life to 1,5-2 years, you cannot create a strong combat-ready Army and a mobilization reserve. And the experience of "building" the current Russian Army confirms this, unfortunately.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 2 September 2019 10: 32
        +13
        Quote: AUL
        IMHO, Roman somewhat exaggerates, but not much. And, most importantly, these ciliates are a phenomenon not only in the army. After the demobilization, they return home and merge into civilian life, remaining all the same ciliates. And this is scary!

        So in the whole world! Alas...

        Worked in western companies: their youth (engineers, as it were) to the construction site from the office-trailer, from the company, -You will not tear by no means! No knowledge, no practice ....

        Easterners, Indians, Indonesians work "in the field" ...

        Where are those Engineers who built the WHOLE WORLD? And they are already gone, I found the last gurus in the late 1990s and early 200s.

        So this is a problem not only in Russia .....
        1. Rey_ka
          Rey_ka 3 September 2019 08: 48
          +5
          I told my daughter when she rolled to 4-ki: "It is easy to be among the stupid" smart "and you try to be smart among the smart!"
          1. Daniil Mikhailov
            Daniil Mikhailov 18 September 2019 23: 48
            0
            And where does the grades at school and the mind?
      3. Siberia 75
        Siberia 75 2 September 2019 11: 40
        -4
        Quote: AUL
        IMHO, Roman somewhat exaggerates, but not much.

        I have a son, I went to graduation class today. Good girl, there are a lot of won competitions and olympiads. That year he took second place in the "Governor's competition of prize-winners". He is engaged in music and very little sports. In the army, he would be, as you said, "infusoria". But he will not go there for health. And if I did, I don't know. Most likely I would ask him if you want to go yourself, if you don't want to smear it.
      4. Igor V
        Igor V 2 September 2019 16: 14
        +6
        Quote: AUL
        The novel somewhat thickens, but not much.

        His wife, a pensioner, worked the spring draft in the commission. From her observations, the following conclusions can be drawn:
        1. The guys want to serve. A lot of those who come and say: I get my diploma in early July, take it right away so as not to wait until the fall. According to the law, they are not entitled while the deferral is valid, but there is a loophole - the guys write a statement about the refusal of the deferral and they are sent to the medical board. Those who arrived late were upset.
        2. Squinting and hiding - units, they are not particularly caught. As one draftee told me: mowing is not fashionable right now.
        3. The amorphous bodies described by Roman almost never occur. Now showed her the article, confirmed.
        Who is not in the know, I will inform you that the military enlistment office is no longer obliged to issue a military ticket to everyone. He who hides is not given out. And without it, it’s difficult to get a job, get a passport, even go through a medical examination for rights, etc. And now there are overgrown mowers and demand a warrior. They are sent all questions to be resolved through the court with all costs and penalties for each outstanding summons.
        1. Igor V
          Igor V 2 September 2019 16: 25
          +5
          I want to supplement it. The order for the draft was fulfilled; even a rather significant number of draftees had to be left for the fall.
          There have been such cases: an athletically built guy comes, without any restrictions, but all in tattoos. He is sent almost to the construction battalion, although he wants more because of the tattoos.
        2. Rey_ka
          Rey_ka 3 September 2019 08: 51
          0
          I’ll tell you more. He hasn’t yet agreed that he is only about the army. And how can I tell you this in a university (or outline an article, too)
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. Civil
      Civil 2 September 2019 07: 41
      +8
      1. Raise the draft age, children are now growing up later in their minds. The refusal of the state from education and the mother's skirt is the main place of this very "education".
      2. Children are now transported with cereals until the 4th-5th course of the institute / college. Not to mention school.
      3. There are few children now, and the approach to "material" in the army will have to be changed.
      4. And yes, you will have to switch to a contract even more to maintain the required level.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 2 September 2019 08: 35
        +13
        Too many "ciliates", especially "urban" ones! Although the "village" follows the same path ....
        It is already difficult for teenagers to explain why Meresiev, after losing his "ability to work", RAPED INTO THE SKY, and not to lie on a warm stove! A lot of things they have to "explain" ... in one word, they need to work in this direction ALL TOGETHER !!! otherwise "infusorism" will bring a lot of troubles to our country and society.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 September 2019 08: 40
        +16
        Quote: Civil
        4. And yes, you will have to switch to a contract even more to maintain the required level.

        I add - you need to increase the service life to the previous 2 years.
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 2 September 2019 10: 01
          +12
          I add - you need to increase the service life to the previous 2 years.

          Or maybe make a gradation? He joined the army, passed the standards for physically, in other subjects - you serve 1 year. Passed with a bunch of flaws or didn’t pass at all - you serve 1,5 of the year or 2.
          There will be an incentive, they will not stand with drooping shoulders and wait for the deadline to pass.
          1. tracer
            tracer 2 September 2019 19: 07
            -3
            What will they say in the West? "We are here to see power" !!! How so ?.
    3. your1970
      your1970 2 September 2019 08: 56
      +14
      Mark my word - we will see how employers will run after 50 year olds shouting - "To us !!! Two ... no, three salaries !!!! You know at least something, you know how and you are trying to learn / learn!" !!! "
      Alas, it looks like it will be ...
      At work, 3 girls under the age of thirty are not interested in them, they have done everything until now. They don’t even want to understand, but what did they do? Why did they perform such a sequence?
      I made a revolution - having shown that it is possible to search in Excel via control + F. They searched numbers by searching .... no one showed them, but by themselves finding ....
      1. tracer
        tracer 2 September 2019 19: 08
        -3
        Already running in North America and herds .... For experienced professionals.
      2. Minato2020
        Minato2020 2 September 2019 21: 17
        -1
        Quote: your1970
        Mark my word - we'll see how employers will run after 50 year olds, shouting - "To us !!! Two, no - three salaries !!!! You know at least something, you know how and you try to learn / learn !!!" ! "...


        Most likely it will be employers from China or other countries.

        In the meantime,
        Quote: karabass
        "... I agree about work, but we all (not only young people) have such a tradition, we already pay Uzbeks more than Russians, because they work twice as well as Russians ..."
      3. Rust
        Rust 4 September 2019 22: 07
        0
        God grant that it would be so. Now employers are often themselves from the Pepsi generation, and are not judged by professional qualities. In general, sometimes I don’t understand how they evaluate it.
  2. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 2 September 2019 05: 47
    +40
    Dear readers from among those whose heart hurts for their own army, we clearly have a problem. And what to do with it is not very clear yet.
    CWP in schools is needed, not "word of God" damn ... that's the whole answer!
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 2 September 2019 05: 53
      +13
      NVP in schools is needed


      To be honest, NVP has little in terms of becoming a fighter ... the motivation for the student is rather weak.
      I think it’s better to pay attention to the formation in children of the psychology of a fighter rather than a nerd with a microscope ... summer camps under the guidance of experienced and demanding counselors who have served in the army will give more to the health of the child ... than spending time on a computer and smartphone ... children need to be motivated with diapers.
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 2 September 2019 05: 58
        +19
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        To be honest, NVP has little in terms of becoming a fighter ... the motivation for the student is rather weak.

        I object Aleksey, we went to the shooting, ran along the lane, marched, we were even taught to reel footcloths correctly, so in part, the "Kalashmat" was no longer a curiosity, but a completely familiar friend, we knew how to disassemble and assemble for a while at school. it is CWP. hi (80 year if that)
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 2 September 2019 06: 05
          +10
          I learned to overcome myself in sports doing judo and sambo ... good training when you lay down a partner in the weight category above your own ... unforgettable impressions of victory.
          1. Aerodrome
            Aerodrome 2 September 2019 06: 21
            +19
            Quote: The same Lech
            I learned to overcome myself in sports doing judo and sambo ... good training when you lay down a partner in the weight category above your own ... unforgettable impressions of victory.

            sections were the sea, all "for so" went to the wrestling and barbell in the summer (make the relief lol ) winter plus-hockey-skiing. true it was Another Country ...
            1. Pedrodepackes
              Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 08: 16
              +4
              Quote: Aerodrome
              sections were the sea, all "for so" went in the summer

              Quote: Aerodrome
              true it was Another Country ...

              granddaughter now
              Quote: Aerodrome
              "for so"

              goes to figure skating at the local FOC, and before that
              Quote: Aerodrome
              "for so"

              I went to the pool, but I’m allergic to bleach ... the desire to study is important, and you can always find a place to practice. Yes, and in my childhood
              Quote: Aerodrome
              sections was the sea
              only now, I’m remembering now, 3-4 people went there from our yard brotherhood, and even that the athlete grew up alone, the rest soon left, in the classroom there were only 4 seriously involved in the same situation. By the way, the knowledge and skills of a chemist-dosimetrist instilled in me at the NVP very seriously helped me both at the emergency and at the school. So not a single sport.
              1. Aerodrome
                Aerodrome 2 September 2019 08: 18
                +3
                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                A place to practice can always be found.

                in the region of ? normal ...
                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                only now, I’m remembering now, 3-4 people went there from our yard brotherhood, and even that the athlete grew up alone, the rest soon left, in the classroom there were only 4 seriously involved in the same situation.

                why be an athlete? it was for development!
                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                But the knowledge and skills of a chemist-dosimetrist instilled in me on NVP very seriously helped me

                I don’t even want to think about why you needed CHEMISTRY knowledge ... wassat
                1. Pedrodepackes
                  Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 08: 23
                  -8
                  Quote: Aerodrome
                  in the region of ? normal ...

                  there is no school gym with equipment in the region? Or to equip the basement, as the informal did in the 90s? With such a whining, children ciliates begin
                  Quote: Aerodrome
                  why be an athlete?

                  but why go to training for two months, quit, and then engage in another three months, a different look?
                  Quote: Aerodrome
                  I don’t even want to think about why you needed CHEMISTRY knowledge

                  Yes, you see, it’s completely alien to you to think, in general, the chemist-dosimetrist is an army military academy, you know, but as I understand it, the army is a distant concept for you, are you ill?
                  1. Aerodrome
                    Aerodrome 2 September 2019 08: 29
                    +4
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes

                    there is no school gym with equipment in the region?

                    are you naive who will let go there?
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    Or to equip the basement, as the informal did in the 90s?

                    definitely naive ... you have no "management company"? or "ownerless" cellars?
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    but why go to training for two months, quit, and then engage in another three months, a different look?

                    yes for development, not for olympiads!
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    yes you see, it’s completely alien to you to think,

                    the analogy is the same for you ...
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    in general, a chemist-dosimetrist is an army military military academy, you know

                    wow ... "America opened"! ! and humor is not yours, apparently ...
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    I understand that the army is a distant concept for you,

                    no comment, so as not to offend ...
                    Quote: Pedrodepackes
                    are you ill?

                    it's at my age as a bonus, you know ... live first ....
                    1. Pedrodepackes
                      Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 08: 34
                      -6
                      Quote: Aerodrome
                      are you naive who will let go there?

                      Do not let school go to school ??? recourse
                      Quote: Aerodrome
                      or "ownerless" cellars?

                      and what are the basements busy with?
                      Quote: Aerodrome
                      definitely naive ... you have no "management company"?
                      here it is necessary to attract them, for we pay for common house property.
                      Quote: Aerodrome
                      yes for development, not for olympiads!

                      and they didn’t go to the Olympics, but you can evaluate your development only at competitions, otherwise what’s the development
                      Quote: The same LYOKHA
                      when you lay down a partner in the weight category above your ... unforgettable impressions of victory.

                      to you as an example and in confirmation of my words.
                      1. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 2 September 2019 09: 37
                        +7
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        Do not let school go to school ???

                        I could not stand such naivety, there are almost no sports sections at school, they don’t pay money, enthusiasts nailed everyone with requirements, no one from the school administration needs this hemorrhoids. About basements - it’s generally beyond, who will give them away if it is possible to cut dough from this? Pay for everything, there is no such money in the bulk, to survive. It is not necessary to measure the rest of the country by the standards of Moscow and other million-plus cities.
                      2. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 09: 41
                        -4
                        Quote: qqqq
                        the school has almost no sports sections,

                        no sections, go to the gym and work out, we're not talking about the Olympians.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        About basements - it’s generally beyond, who will give them away if it is possible to cut dough from this?

                        what dough? Here is my house and the house opposite, the castle is hanging in the basement.
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Do not measure by the standards of Moscow and other cities of millionaires

                        I live in a district center and we have a lot of sections, moreover, two of them: karate and thin. gymnastics at school.
                      3. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 2 September 2019 09: 46
                        +4
                        They will not be allowed to go to the gym without a teacher; there must be a person in charge. The lock is hanging, but try to remove it and immediately find out how much it costs. There are different cellars, and there are houses where there is only communication in the cellar. You are fortunate that there are sports sections in the school, they are, but there are already quite a few and there is a tendency towards their final leaving their school.
                      4. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 09: 52
                        -3
                        Quote: qqqq
                        They won’t let me go to the gym without a teacher,

                        and who said that without him, he himself is glad, for an extra hour the surcharge goes
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The lock is hanging, but try to remove it and immediately find out how much it costs.

                        those who hung it will remove it, as is done when the initiator is. Well, I understood the mood of the crowd, it is better to whine, how bad and do nothing hi
                        Quote: qqqq
                        but it’s already quite small and there is a tendency towards their final departure of their school.

                        like, for the three years that I have been living here, the list of sports and the number of sections has only increased.
                      5. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 2 September 2019 11: 54
                        +2
                        It looks like a beautiful fairy tale, the school has its own budget and pay for extra. nobody is going to watch there especially, and so the teachers would really be happy. The city, probably Moscow, we have all our lives going, in the course, only in the capital. The mood of the crowd is the rule, and everything else is an exception to the rule, there are different cases, but in the majority the crowd is a reflection of reality.
                      6. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 12: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: qqqq
                        It looks like a beautiful fairy tale, the school has its own budget and pay for extra. nobody’s going to watch especially

                        Yes, but how do teachers survive? They take extra hours, a cool guide. What relation do you have to education?
                        Quote: qqqq
                        The city, probably, Moscow

                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        I live in the district center
                      7. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 2 September 2019 13: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: Pedrodepackes
                        Yes, but how do teachers survive?

                        My friend, a physical education teacher, works as a janitor in the evenings.
                      8. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 2 September 2019 13: 56
                        +4
                        Friends, teachers survive due to extra hours, everyone works at 1,5 - 2 bids + extracurricular hours, from here if the teacher is sick, then there is no one to replace - all have no free hours, they call pensioners.
                      9. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 14: 46
                        -3
                        Quote: qqqq
                        Friends, teachers, survive at the expense of extra hours, everyone works at 1,5 - 2 rates + extra-lesson
                        I’m talking about this, physical education has the right to conduct training with children.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        physical education teacher, in the evenings as a janitor

                        as a watchman, it’s certainly calmer, but it’s painfully boring, but isn’t it better to work by profession?
                      10. Oleg (Kharkov)
                        Oleg (Kharkov) 15 September 2019 22: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: qqqq
                        enthusiasts all nailed requirements, no one from the school administration needs this hemorrhoids

                        You're right
                        Here, read:
                        https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=647227&p=1
                        Weekdays teachers. P. Astapov.
                  2. d1975
                    d1975 2 September 2019 22: 10
                    0
                    Tao of the pain of the soul I know it all in my own skin, but you respected such nonsense wrote that you first need to know that we live in Russia! Read the laws! Weightlifting halls are everywhere closed, I was thrown out onto the street today by the Youth Sports School, there is no APS, there is something else there, it will be like reconstruction, but to where, and the GDP is far away in Moscow. Here is such a thing life! hi
            2. your1970
              your1970 2 September 2019 08: 57
              +4
              It would be a wish, there are horizontal bars in any yard .....
              I don `t want....
              1. qQQQ
                qQQQ 2 September 2019 10: 41
                +1
                Quote: your1970
                It would be a wish, there are horizontal bars in any yard .....

                There are horizontal bars, and is engaged in quite a lot, which is very pleasing.
                1. DenZ
                  DenZ 2 September 2019 11: 34
                  0
                  Quote: qqqq
                  There are horizontal bars, and is engaged in quite a lot, which is very pleasing.

                  We constantly see on the horizontal bars only the overwhelming minority who came from Central Asia (all kinds of camps) of Russian (Slavic) boys ..
                  1. qQQQ
                    qQQQ 2 September 2019 11: 56
                    0
                    Quote: DenZ
                    We constantly see on the horizontal bars only the overwhelming minority who came from Central Asia (all kinds of camps) of Russian (Slavic) boys ..

                    I don’t know about you, we really have a lot of guys involved, and local ones. And courtyard sports fields appear, but the question was precisely about access from the school gym and the closed communal building.
                    1. Pedrodepackes
                      Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 12: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: qqqq
                      but the question was precisely about access from the school gym and the closed communal building.

                      the question was about playing sports in general, it's just sidestepped the question of the desire to play.
                      Quote: qqqq
                      There are horizontal bars, and quite a lot

                      not only horizontal bars, but entire sports campuses, football and hockey boxes in the courtyards; even a metal net fell off the goal from the constant hit by the ball.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 2 September 2019 18: 07
                        +2
                        we are currently building a complex for the TRP at the stadium - it looks attractive and access (absolutely free !!) for almost all daylight hours.
                      2. Pedrodepackes
                        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 18: 33
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        access (absolutely free !!) almost all daylight hours.

                        so then ...
              2. lis-ik
                lis-ik 2 September 2019 13: 36
                +1
                Quote: your1970
                It would be a wish, there are horizontal bars in any yard .....
                I don `t want....

                I don’t want and can’t go to the horizontal bar before the army every day, otherwise shame would not have been overcome. And now I doubt that I will make one revolution.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 2 September 2019 18: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: lis-ik
                  And now I doubt that I will make one revolution.
                  -Well, if you burned out of shame that you won’t catch up, you’re clearly not sixteen or even 30 .....
      2. 210ox
        210ox 2 September 2019 07: 36
        +7
        There is only a comprehensive solution .. "Zarnitsa", CWP, patriotic work ... Yes, there is already an accident among adults .. In the village there is an accident on the overhead line ... All life is over, lost people began to leave the empty street areas where the economy and generally worries are full ..
        1. My address
          My address 2 September 2019 08: 08
          +4
          Hello, 210quq (Dmitry)!
          I could not stand it, climbed. You are absolutely right! Only in complex should a complex problem be solved! You can’t try one thing first, then another, then ... Only the simultaneous adoption by all interested of all necessary and justified costs. This was taught to me by life even before I found out that this was a common requirement of a management system. That is, as M. Bonaparte liked to repeat Marshal Turenne (a possible prototype of d Artagnan),
          Big battalions are always right,
          meaning not the quantity, but the unity of purpose for all.
          hi
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 2 September 2019 11: 08
        +1
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I think it’s better to pay attention to the formation in children of the psychology of a fighter

        Physical education.
        If not martial arts, they are afraid, then at least playing sports.
      4. glk63
        glk63 2 September 2019 13: 59
        0
        "Botanists with a microscope", however, are also needed ...)
        1. VeteranVSSSR
          VeteranVSSSR 2 September 2019 22: 18
          0
          You know, I want to share from my personal, about the botanists. '' When I served, I saw the following picture:
          every six months, musicians were called up to a separate ORPK music orchestra. All of them were quarantined, physical, etc. etc ... And you know, to take the oath, each or almost every musician could pass to the VSK, even 3 degrees, but nonetheless.
    2. lucul
      lucul 2 September 2019 06: 09
      +2
      CWP in schools is needed, not "word of God" damn ... that's the whole answer!

      This is not so - this "mother's" upbringing is to blame when the child is protected from any problems and made TOO obedient. This is very convenient for a mother - only completely obedient and without initiative young men who are accustomed to the fact that everything is led by a "mother")))
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 2 September 2019 06: 37
        +16
        Our trouble is women's upbringing ... "Son, don't run. You will fall. Son, do not climb a tree. You will fall down ... Son, sit on a bench. The sun will bake his head .." And so in everything .. Mother's love is blind and not reasonable .. Previously raised by the street .. Games, the spirit of rivalry and male mutual assistance .. fights, Let the boyish, but male team .. Now they have no place to run .. Cars, parking lots, roads .. And before the yard was full of space for games and adventures. ...
        1. Dimy4
          Dimy4 2 September 2019 07: 01
          +11
          Our trouble is female education ...

          They don’t give a damn how and how to tear it out, that mothers, that grannies, immediately run with yelling that you can’t do this, you have to make a person kind and gentle of him. And as a result of such upbringing, we get such a city, which, having matured a little, starts sending the same mother so that it does not distract from the telephone-iphone.
        2. Evil543
          Evil543 2 September 2019 07: 56
          +8
          If modern kids would do half of what we once did, then they will either be killed or maimed
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 2 September 2019 09: 41
            +2
            Quote: Evil543
            If modern kids would do half of what we once did, then they will either be killed or maimed

            that's for sure when the tribe offered me to buy pyrotechnics for the new year - in return I learned a lot of things about how our parents and I independently dealt with this topic, and then there were no pyrotechnics in stores - all with your own hands - magnesium potassium permanganate, nitrate, etc.
            1. tracer
              tracer 3 September 2019 22: 17
              -2
              Natural selection then was in full swing. YES, after hammering a half-tin of a falcon’s can into a copper tube on some brooches, it tear off some fingers. But these unique people, as a rule, were never seriously interested in this topic. For which they were punished by the difficult fate of Soviet boys.
              1. PSih2097
                PSih2097 3 September 2019 22: 27
                0
                Quote: tracer
                For which they were punished by the difficult fate of Soviet boys.

                became either burnt or dead ...
                Or, as an option - they could not sit for a week at least at the 5th point ...
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 2 September 2019 08: 43
          +4
          Quote: 30 vis
          Our trouble is women's upbringing ... "Son, don't run. You will fall.

          I agree. There was a very good article on this topic here. "Pedagogical debauchery". hi
        4. Kronos
          Kronos 2 September 2019 11: 38
          -2
          And what good are these fights, bullying the weak and other "joys"?
          1. glk63
            glk63 2 September 2019 14: 17
            +5
            There is nothing good in bullying the weak, but when rebuffing the offender, the weak becomes strong. It's just that many parents, when raising their children, forget that we do not live in the "land of elves".
        5. Minato2020
          Minato2020 2 September 2019 21: 45
          -2
          Quote: 30 vis
          Our trouble is women's education ... "..


          Yes, there is no longer any female education. Since the 90s, no - when teenagers earned more money at crossroads with a rag than their mother at work. Older traded in the markets without any regard for my mother’s skirt.

          Just this tendency to complain about the previous generation since Roman times.

          And more quotes:
          Socrates: “Our youth loves luxury, it is poorly educated, taunts the bosses, does not respect the elderly, reread to parents. Our children have become simply tyrants. ”

          Hesiod: “I have lost all hope of the future of our country if today's youth takes the reins of government tomorrow. This youth is unbearable, restrained, just awful. ”

          The author is not installed, the place is Babylon: “Our youth is corrupted to the core, it will never be like the youth of the past. The younger generation of today will not be able to preserve our culture. ”

          Egyptian priest: “Our world has reached a critical stage. Children no longer listen to their parents. Apparently, the end of the world is not far away. ”
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 2 September 2019 22: 36
            0
            In families with female dominance ... Without a father. The female influence is very great .. Then there is school .. Again a woman, only now a teacher .. And then a ticket to life .. And here a little mother grows up with a male team .. .. They flee the army, hang themselves, become chukh-scented (last from the last) fighters .. Yes and now is not the nineties ... A generation has grown up living in relative satiety and affluence ..
            1. Minato2020
              Minato2020 2 September 2019 22: 45
              -1
              Quote: 30 vis
              In families with female dominance ... Without a father. Feminine influence is very great ..


              In families without a father, women work at two rates - there is no time to dominate.
              They lead to the school by the hand, and some mothers are taken by private car.
              The clash with the men's team is already in elementary school - you can see it on the Yu-tube.
              Run away from reality, starting from school and not only boys - girls too.

              ... yes and now is not the nineties ... A generation has grown up living in relative satiety and affluence ..

              Something is somehow somehow getting less, well, with the exception of ...
              1. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 3 September 2019 07: 12
                +1
                Quote: Minato2020
                Something is somehow somehow getting less, well, with the exception of ...

                You in the nineties lived better than now. then not otherwise were a gangster!
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 4 September 2019 16: 26
                -1
                Quote: tracer
                https://youtu.be/8Q0CybGbZOQ
                This one?

                chug
          2. Zvonarev
            Zvonarev 4 September 2019 10: 45
            +1
            Note, ALL of the cited blame "new initiatives" and the rejection of the canon. Yes, we would all be just happy if at least half of the youth corresponded to these descriptions.
      2. Mwg
        Mwg 2 September 2019 07: 17
        +8
        For "equality", but in fact, the legalized domination of the will of a woman.
        And such a crap in incomplete and in complete families, with rare exceptions.
        World tendency - family collapse through "equality"
        1. tracer
          tracer 3 September 2019 23: 45
          -2
          I agree with you one hundred percent. Even two hundred.
      3. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 2 September 2019 07: 29
        0
        Quote: lucul
        This is not so - this "mother's" education is to blame

        The article has wonderful words about parents.
        Where are the parents not attaching little finger to education and training of my child

        That says it all
        1. Minato2020
          Minato2020 2 September 2019 21: 49
          0
          Where are the parents who did not attach the little finger to the upbringing and preparation of their child ...


          In the USSR, parents worked and relied on a state that brought up and cared for the health of the younger generation.
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 2 September 2019 21: 52
            0
            Quote: Minato2020
            In the USSR, parents worked and relied on a state that brought up and cared for the health of the younger generation.

            Well, it could be your parents entrusted your education to the state.
            My parents raised me themselves.
      4. Pedrodepackes
        Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 08: 17
        0
        Quote: lucul
        This is not so - this "mother's" education is to blame

        That yes
    3. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 2 September 2019 07: 26
      +2
      Quote: Aerodrome
      NVP in schools is needed

      Tomorrow everyone will bring certificates that if he lifts a load heavier than 200 grams, he will become disabled.
      And if he runs more than 50 meters with a light trot, then he will be taken to the cemetery.
      And the parents will buy this certificate for him
    4. LON
      LON 2 September 2019 09: 17
      +4
      Quote: Aerodrome
      NVP in schools is needed

      What do you think, what will a young man think in the service of a family where there is no way to buy seasonal shoes (35% of families). Here obviously patriotic thoughts will go by the wayside. Before they are raped by NVP, it is necessary to improve the financial situation of these families.
    5. LON
      LON 2 September 2019 11: 33
      0
      Quote: Aerodrome
      CWP in schools is needed, not "the word of God

      Do not try to milk a hungry cow. The result is known.
    6. lis-ik
      lis-ik 2 September 2019 13: 34
      +3
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Dear readers from among those whose heart hurts for their own army, we clearly have a problem. And what to do with it is not very clear yet.
      CWP in schools is needed, not "word of God" damn ... that's the whole answer!

      It doesn’t help very much. It’s NVP in civilian life; I myself remember when it was possible to skip. But on the topic to return to two years, I completely agree. Shoulders exactly straighten in the second year. Otherwise, the young will be ashamed.
  3. Errr
    Errr 2 September 2019 05: 52
    +7
    Finally! Sounded! No comments. I just shake hands with the author of the article. Thank you so much, Roman !!!
  4. Destiny
    Destiny 2 September 2019 05: 58
    +5
    The conscript is not the same one .. I though didn’t want to serve with the cannons on the ship (faith doesn’t allow us, they actually brought us to the construction battalion, but by the will of God turned out to be in the Baltic), but then I was directly asked to stay, you want to be a warrant officer, if you want an officer, you’ll unlearn it in Leningrad (consider that you’ve already done it) and stay, your place is here ... And now they want to serve and serve for a year ... Neither fish nor meat went to youth. . The global trend, however ...
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 2 September 2019 06: 23
      +5
      Quote: Destiny
      Although I didn’t want to serve with the cannons on the ship, (faith does not allow us to take us to the construction battalion, but by the will of God I ended up in the Baltic)

      did faith allow it? Ali atheists should protect the fatherland? wassat
      1. RAE8
        RAE8 2 September 2019 13: 18
        +4
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Ali atheists should protect the fatherland?

        ????? All centuries of the formation of Russia, its lands were protected and incremented by atheists? However.
    2. Galleon
      Galleon 2 September 2019 10: 08
      +4
      Quote: Destiny
      The conscript is not that one.

      Nonech's conscript is not like this. negative
      "Yes, there were people in our time, not like the present tribe. Heroes, not you ..."

      Do not say: why were these former times better than these, because it is not from wisdom that you ask about it - Ecclesiastes, chapter 7.
      Dear, well, this is corny !!
  5. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 2 September 2019 06: 08
    +2
    rarely I agree with Roman, but here I’m doing it one hundred percent. although I will say from my own experience, it has always been so. it’s possible, of course, to take the zero correction when my time is, but according to my statistics, it was exactly the same. 2-3 people the rest is complete ... they just do not understand what the army is and why it is needed. just doesn't get it. they don’t need it. therefore, I am with all my hands for biathlon and army games. Moreover, I think that this should be more and more untwisted. so that the audience is and grows. and the initial training ... we have an NVP, for example, the lesson went like this. of your dads, I know all the officers so that all of you are provided with 4 a year) who wants 5 goes to the shooting range) and the girls can go about their business) in all seriousness))) the popularity of the army must be raised in every possible way.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 2 September 2019 07: 01
      +7
      Any biathlon is just an expensive show that takes money from military training in units. And the youth is not an incentive to serve. For them, this is just another cool show like motocross or rally.
      In the current situation, only a return to high school NVP, instead of a stupid OBZH, can somehow rectify the situation.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 2 September 2019 07: 08
        +2
        It's not about incentives. the fact is that the kid looking at it all wants to connect life with the army. he will be interested. the popularization of the armed forces is now an extremely important task for the majority knows about this from the movies and games. the reality is this. that case when the savings come out sideways. the new generation loves the show so you need to give it to them but with a bias in the right direction. and NVP will probably give something in primary knowledge, but it certainly will not give a desire to plunge into it.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 2 September 2019 11: 24
          +5
          Quote: carstorm 11
          popularization of the armed forces is now an extremely important task

          Exactly. Instead of putting in order the crumbling military registration and enlistment offices with faded posters "go to contract service," they cram a lot of money into events with a microscopic audience. Dumb "Dom-2" orders of magnitude more people watch

          Recently pinned up - the building of the district military enlistment office with falling plaster and cracks in the walls, under the old ZIL-131 a soldier in oiled clothes digs around, well, the ubiquitous poster with an indistinguishable inscription.
          On the contrary, there’s a buy-sell office office across the street. Chrome, glass, cool cars ...

          It is clear which path in life the "boy watching this" will choose ... And no "biathlon" will help.

          By the way, tankers with advertisements on them are in the same line. "the kid watching this" will perfectly understand the priorities of the state.
    2. Pmmxnumx
      Pmmxnumx 2 September 2019 07: 22
      +5
      I don't know how useful these biathlons and army games are. For me, it’s like in sports: training several thousand first-class athletes and several masters of sports of international class is comparable at a price, and the benefits for people and for the state in the first case are much greater. In order for young people to have a desire to serve and any kind of training, they must really first of all be torn off the Internet. And for this, the very topic would be from 12 years to two times a year, and at least for a couple of weeks everyone should be sent to military sports camps without fail, where the proportion of military activity increases with age. Then, in general, the children will be healthier, and the attitude to the service will be better, because the familiar does not frighten. I managed to send my son twice to a military camp while he was at school, and I see that it was beneficial to him, and it was interesting. But it was for "very extra money" and, frankly, not everyone is available, but should be available. And now from the army, if only not to frighten the conscripts, they almost painted a picture of a kindergarten, and in such an army, only such biomass can be served.
      Moreover, with such a system, it might even not be necessary for a year to separate young people from citizens, ready-made draftees, without being distracted by the tightening of conditions, and for a shorter time, it is possible to tighten up the VUS, especially if the foundations are started to be laid earlier. So on all sides the benefit would be
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 2 September 2019 07: 38
        +3
        What does it mean by force?) Forcing something to do is not productive. but the motivation system to develop it. but I repeat, for all this to work, children must understand what the army is.
        1. Pmmxnumx
          Pmmxnumx 2 September 2019 08: 00
          +2
          Here we have a kind of universal secondary education. Is this "forcing" or what? But surely someone doesn't like it. So this system should also be within the education system. And children will understand what an army is, while still in school.
          And then what kind of game has gone: the child still does not know anything about duties, but he is already being told about rights! Here comes this "want-do not want" ...
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 2 September 2019 11: 42
            0
            This is the meaning of the development of civilization when they begin to take into account the desires of people
            1. Pmmxnumx
              Pmmxnumx 2 September 2019 12: 51
              +5
              When a person begins to put the personal above the public, civilizations usually end on this, because barbarians come, strong and motivated to achieve a common goal, and conquer civilized, humane and democratic, able to take into account the desires of people (especially when these people are themselves), quickly putting them in their place is the place of slaves.
              1. Kronos
                Kronos 2 September 2019 13: 07
                -3
                Yes, in the ancient world this was all, however, since then a lot of things have changed and will not go so well except for religious movements, there are no such barbarians capable of capturing and destroying everything
                1. Pmmxnumx
                  Pmmxnumx 2 September 2019 17: 37
                  +2
                  Yes?! Are you serious? In my opinion, you don't have to go far for examples: Ukraine, Syria, and in Europe, for example, how many "refugees" do all kinds of indecency. All this is happening right now before our very eyes, and if the process has not finished yet, this does not mean that it is not there. And you don't have to take everything literally, barbarians are not necessarily in skins and with clubs, they are quite well-dressed and equipped.
    3. garrett
      garrett 2 September 2019 09: 35
      +2
      it always has been

      I agree ... a novel, I did not serve such an impression in the army))
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 2 September 2019 06: 13
    +5
    Really thing rubbish.
    ... Wait a minute, the Russian Defense Ministry will send an answer. laughing
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 2 September 2019 06: 33
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      Really thing rubbish.
      ... Wait a minute, the Russian Defense Ministry will send an answer. laughing

      scared a hedgehog ... laughing hi
  7. andrewkor
    andrewkor 2 September 2019 06: 25
    +2
    I remembered the classic: "I ... will give you a sergeant major in Voltaire.
    He’ll build you in three lines,
    And you will peep, so instantly reassured! "
    I gratefully recall my company level commanders in the training of the Central Communications Command.
    The charge was enough for two years and it came in handy on a civilian!
  8. RusKosTen
    RusKosTen 2 September 2019 06: 37
    +13
    The army is a reflection of society. When young people come there, this is a "cut" of the male population of the country from 18 to 27. And by this cut one can judge what is happening in society. I mean, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are two options for solving the problem - either society should be more demanding of young guys, or the sergeants should untie their hands. The second option is fraught with rolling into hazing, and the requirements for sergeants are increasing so that their "anger" is always in essence. And what is education in society? The novel speaks of parents who did not put a finger to the upbringing of their child. Well, first of all, what is education? For all the good versus all the bad? from these amorphous principles the same amorphous people are obtained. The norms of education should be formed by ideology through the institutions of the family, schools, circles. If the family does not take care of children, then they should be used to sculpt Human at school. If at school, the class teacher let us down, then the boxing trainer should become your second father. When a society has these safety mechanisms, the society itself is healthy. The less fraying mechanisms - it becomes loose, not capable of anything. The conclusion, as always, is the same - we need an ideology, clear concepts about good and evil, how it should and how not, and institutions that bring this to young minds.
  9. Per se.
    Per se. 2 September 2019 06: 45
    +14
    Really thing rubbish.
    Conscripts did not fall out of space, they are a product of the system, of the current consumer society ... The problem is also in the absence of an idea on which morality rests. Our president and supreme commander called patriotism national ideas. If the national idea determines the meaning of the existence of one or another people, ethnic group or nation, then patriotism is only one of the means, but not the meaning itself, as well as the streamlined concept of strengthening Russia. Soviet society had an idea encompassing the whole of society, and not separate layers, each in its own way. In this, the army is strong not only by the presence of modern weapons, general training, but also by fortitude. For what and for whom to fight, where besides native land and loved ones, your life, there must be a high morale that you can’t buy for money. In my time, not to serve in the army was a shame, it was flawed, now morality allows many to think that contract soldiers should serve, and their homeland where it is good, where it is satisfying.

    The eternal question, what to do? In particular, it is impossible to make the army completely contractual, as well as a year of service, it can only be an option for conscription, in which the full service life of conscripts must be done within three years. It’s not necessary to summon everyone for three years, even if they alone serve the year or the course of a young soldier, they serve their civilian life for three years and work out for the army fund. The wartime scheme, everything for the front, everything for victory, should be the basis for the division of the call into front and rear, and with constitutional duty. If you want and you can, you have served for three full years in the army. A three-year conscript will be no worse than a contractor, at lower cost and higher moral motivation. You do not want, you can’t, the young fighter’s course, focusing on civil defense, taking the oath, and work out the army fund, at the expense of those who serve the full urgent for you. This should also apply to girls, the example of Israel is to help, Motherland should be ready to defend their homeland in a dashing year, at the front and in the rear (for the front).

    Well, the last thing, with the morals of consumers and the cult of money, with the oligarchs who keep their treasure in foreign banks and foreign currency, we must say goodbye. Being under the masters of capitalism, being in a foreign pole, under foreign rules, it is unlikely to create a healthy society and a strong, truly independent country, the army is only part of which.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 2 September 2019 09: 06
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      Conscripts did not fall out of space, they are a product of the system, of the current consumer society ... The problem is also the lack of an idea on which morality rests.
      Sergey, as always thoroughly and carefully. + hi
  10. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 2 September 2019 06: 48
    +6
    A plus!!! good I agree to all 1000%! We have the same crap in bulbyandii request The kids grow up so inadequate that soon they will not know without a "shovel" with the Internet how to take off their pants in the toilet ...
    In the 90s, I served as a contract sergeant, though not in the artillery unit, but in the missile brigade. Yes, in training for new arrivals. soldier At that time it was interesting to work with people, because they didn’t know mobile phones or the Internet yet, the “biomass” came advanced in terms of adaptability to conditions. All they had to do was set a problem - and voila! For the sake of deserving "cookies" in the form of additional benefits or indulgences in the service of "comrades" they turned on their brains and sometimes gave such solutions to the problems created for them that everyone understood that the army was still "breathing". Even especially zealous "unique" had to be slightly put in place within the terms of service. But it was interesting. Fantasies on the topic of rummaging around with conscripts went off scale and then a counterweight came into force - a couple of notes on physics, engineering training and all the energy was directed in the right direction. Although then there were comedians. Each battery had 1-2 of its own with deviations in adequacy. But over time, they were even molded into defenders of the homeland, but adjusted for their "abilities". Only it was necessary to correctly combine the proposed staff positions with their mental or physical abilities. And in principle, by the "retirement" they became mature enough smile
    I don’t know what is going on in the army now, because then I refused to continue to serve persuasive requests. There wasn’t enough conscience to salute the inadequate in uniform, which was also enough request And now I would be almost retired winked smile
    Although I repeat that I am sure that what is described by the author is happening here ..... request
  11. Leha667
    Leha667 2 September 2019 06: 49
    +5
    The author is right, unfortunately ... I agree with him for the whole 100.
    I watched this picture in dynamics from 2005 to 2018. In the unit there was a company of young replenishment, they were taught by the VUS. Every year, worse and worse ...
  12. Old tanker
    Old tanker 2 September 2019 06: 54
    +9
    The author was really late. But not for three or four years, as he writes himself, but for 10-12 years. From the moment that the conscription service became one year, the main task of the conscript was to “unwind” this miserable year somehow. The desire to study military affairs in the present way was practically not visible to anyone. So there was always one incentive - the commander’s “magic pendell”. And by the end of the year, nothing was done from the biomass by a specialist. The commander would have the desire and incentive to prepare this specialist. So the whining of the author’s egg is not worth it. From the beginning of the 90s, the draft contingent did not differ in motivation for service and everything was kept at the commander's will.
    The worst situation is not with conscripts, but with contract soldiers. The vast majority of them do not conclude more than one contract, and therefore do not become real professionals. Graduates from universities generally go for a 2-year contract to go out of business. In order not to sit on the barracks and what no loot to have. What kind of a thing is this because an ordinary soldier who only has a contract and receives 1-2 tariff categories receives a little more than 20 thousand. And this is a young guy who is creating a family.
    That's why in our army there are practically no real professionals. All professionalism at the level of conscript-biennial.
  13. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 2 September 2019 07: 10
    +2
    Kids need to be taught. School / gymnasium / lyceum? Well, in the open they say that everything, the shop has closed, teachers now only teach. Institutes / academies? Do not even laugh.
    Providing services for the cultivation of "literate consumers" of smartphones and computers.
    Any mom from KSM there would have been enough of a relative from those epithets with which the "double basses" rewarded the youngsters.
    The committee of mothers who have not given birth has not yet been dispersed. And finances from abroad are still dripping. feel
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 2 September 2019 07: 37
      +7
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Kids need to be taught. School / gymnasium / lyceum? Well, in the open they say that everything, the shop has closed, teachers now only teach. Institutes / academies? Do not even laugh.
      Providing services for the cultivation of "literate consumers" of smartphones and computers.
      Any mom from KSM there would have been enough of a relative from those epithets with which the "double basses" rewarded the youngsters.
      The committee of mothers who have not given birth has not yet been dispersed. And finances from abroad are still dripping. feel

      one should not forget that now "children" are "protected by law", nothing can be said to them, and even more so, they can send a teacher on an erotic journey, and nothing will happen to them, the "juvenile" is already working in fact. therefore, the lot is to teach the program and that's it. education in schools, lyceums ended with the laws on the "rights of the child".
      1. frog
        frog 2 September 2019 10: 33
        +1
        upbringing in schools, lyceums ended with the laws on the "rights of the child".

        Education is not over, IMHO ..... It just became ..... "appropriate for the time" feel Because, as already mentioned, the parents either plow like the damned, or just live))), having scored on this process. First, cartoons, then computers with smartphones ... Children do not distract, very convenient. As for educational institutions, everything is simple there. And juvenile justice, and the practical impossibility of "evicting" the utyrka. She was more declared in the Council of Deputies, but still it was. And now ..... About a variety of colleges and universities, the speech is simply silent, because as soon as we talked about funding, depending on the livestock, so immediately we got what we have. So - no wonder, everything is within the framework of the laws of nature. Well, this biomass is very convenient for "zasalstvu", because biomass is. Another thing is that everything has consequences, and according to the natural completion of the life cycle of those who are still from the "early" time will come dupa, since these are generally not suitable for anything. So it will be later, but who thinks about it later? When the new forest code was adopted, who thought about the consequences? The main thing was to reduce the "budgetary burden", well, and not to interfere with the right guys "doing business." The result is new fires and river shallowing. In particular, https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5d6c84ff9a7947ccbcb9588e?from=newsfeed. And this is just the beginning.
        So we "look to the future with delight" crying
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 2 September 2019 10: 41
          +2
          Quote: frog
          Education is not over, IMHO ..... It just became ..... "appropriate for the time"

          no, it just ended IMHO too. wife in the sphere. I would have already "gotten wet" from the fact that she suffers ... scum and thugs .. + ZPR, an excellent contingent in college, "schoolgirls" for the New Year in "decree", a couple of suicides (investigation), a couple of simply "missing" , swollen, stoned - all this is reality. and the software master is dragged around the "offices", but there is no other job, but you have to endure until retirement ... how do you like this "Ilon Musk"?
          1. frog
            frog 2 September 2019 10: 54
            +6
            I’m somewhat in the same ball))) Thank God, it’s a kind of sideways, because otherwise I would have simply dumped it, because sitting out of shit, sorry, does not pull.
            In general, I am somewhat aware of my current education, and assuming that it is unlikely that our office is a collection of absolutely all vices, the state of affairs in this area does not even depress. Because the dead are rarely worried. The fact that often those who work there simply have nowhere to go - alas, they know. But even if it were not so, the main thing from this has not gone anywhere. The management of both the university / college and the country absolutely has a lot to do with what is the result. And not only in education, that school, that is not ..... Therefore, it would be foolish to expect in quality, sorry, "meat" something else. No, there are certainly decent young people, but rather in spite of, not thanks to. The statistics are definitely depressing. Again, if you take a quick look at patriotic education, then how can you inspire young people? Profiled polymers? Rosstat data? If even the officialdom drives you into such despondency, then the state of affairs in real life is generally very cheerful ...... If earlier "For the Motherland, for Stalin", no matter how I treated him, now what? "For Gazprom, for Chubais"? For what I performed "sacred duty and honorable duty" in the Council of Deputies, I understood. Not always real body movements coincided with the declared ones, but all the same ..... And now ??
  14. Sergei 777
    Sergei 777 2 September 2019 07: 15
    +14
    Himself demobilized from the artillery brigade in 2018. So we can conditionally say that I am one of these urgent mailboxes. wink I can say that I agree with the author, but only partially. Here's the problem. Almost all of those who are called up for service now go to the troops with the thought like "Oh, okay, not a year old, somehow or other, but he will be a normal soldier." All. Now ordinary conscripts do not have any highly patriotic feelings. Why? Hard to tell. It may be influenced by the fact that everyone is now for himself and such things as society, collective, but in the end, their homeland, they somehow faded into the background. But this is the problem of the whole nation, not just the soldiers.
    Now about combat training. We had it, and was thoroughly satisfied. In any case, with the equipment I was able to do a lot of things. But this is the merit of our commander, he knew everything and taught us. It was clear that he was interested in doing this.
    Now about the double basses. Most knew their specialties, although of course there were all sorts. These "all sorts" were usually young on the first contract and were not very involved yet. As a rule, they complained about all sorts of nuances with salary.
    Brigade commander. This is a separate song. He was very respected and even a little afraid. But they were not afraid because he was some kind of outrageous. No. He was a really professional military man. I personally controlled everything. On his "favorite" rubber day he wore OZK like the whole team. And he did it faster than 80% of the soldiers.
    Although about how I served, I will definitely write an article.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 2 September 2019 07: 44
      +7
      Quote: Sergey 777
      Although about how I served, I will definitely write an article.

      It would be interesting ! good just compare what happened in 36 years in the army. winked I remember here, like you, in the "rubber days", the chief of staff of the division, Major Brizhevsky, always ran with us ... the first pancake always ran ... when he was seen off at the end of his service life, he was also a "bonus" for us. horizontal bar made 20 exits on both hands to our admiration and shame. yes ... there were people. soldier
  15. Gardamir
    Gardamir 2 September 2019 07: 32
    +1
    And what do you want "generation of snowflakes"!
  16. Ali Kokand
    Ali Kokand 2 September 2019 07: 43
    +3
    Army slice of society - to the point. In a concentrated form.
    Service life is a year minus. Although I understand good intentions. Sometimes a negative result from such intentions.
    Enter NVP - with two hands for.
    You can enter pre-selection, or preparatory courses or something.
    Earlier, selfishness and cynicism, inability to live on in the army life among the draftees were especially lacking in the capital. There is nothing surprising.
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 2 September 2019 08: 04
    +3
    In any case, there are conscientious and gouging ones. But if in ordinary life it can cost marriage or loss or worse (pah, pah, pah three times over your shoulder), in war it is usually death and not only yours. So, some specimens have to push the truth of life, if not through the ears, then, figuratively speaking, through the ass. But in another way. fellow
  18. Alien From
    Alien From 2 September 2019 08: 18
    +2
    The author is right, a good belt is not enough for youth !!!!! You will not be full of tolerance !!!
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 2 September 2019 09: 21
      +3
      Quote: Alien From
      The author is right, a good belt is not enough for youth !!!!! You will not be full of tolerance !!!

      reign! just reins!
  19. Avior
    Avior 2 September 2019 08: 20
    +4
    It’s all just as Roman wrote, the young people haven’t gone right now, only in the photo there are actually two people carrying the box, the rest are more likely to support it.
    Not to mention the fact that they were not placed in growth.
    And all you need is, if the procedure is not invented, but really in demand in a combat situation, and it seems quite in demand, to get a rope or a carrying strap on the battery, like with movers, and the problem would be solved much easier.
    And then to introduce regular means.
    hi
  20. Captan78
    Captan78 2 September 2019 08: 20
    +2
    Everything is to the point, and given that the left passengers do not read this resource, everything is fine, but God forbid put this article on some sort of buy-in - everything, turn off the lights, would burn up for a certain category of citizens so that my mother doesn’t grieve
  21. rocket757
    rocket757 2 September 2019 08: 37
    +4
    Quote: The same Lech
    NVP in schools is needed


    To be honest, NVP has little in terms of becoming a fighter ... the motivation for the student is rather weak.
    I think it’s better to pay attention to the formation in children of the psychology of a fighter rather than a nerd with a microscope ....

    We and "nerds" NEED! Besides, the proper motivation makes "nerds" very necessary specialists in the army!
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. demo
    demo 2 September 2019 09: 24
    +4
    Really thing rubbish. And while I can’t find the clearance. Maybe, of course, someone will have lighter thoughts, but this “someone” should sit in the Kremlin and understand the essence of the problem.
    Rezanul, so rezanul.
    And this "someone" who should sit in the Kremlin has a full name, or "this is an abstraction" mixed with "fantasy".
    Anyone who sits in the Kremlin does not think about what army we will have in 10 years.
    A person’s age is such that you don’t want to think about it.
    Are the kids attached?
    Wife too?
    Good.

    The salvation of the drowning, Roman, is the business of the drowning themselves.
    Write, write, you will be counted.
  25. The comment was deleted.
    1. depressant
      depressant 2 September 2019 10: 39
      +2
      That article, that discussion is good.
      One can immediately feel that they are literate people who can accurately formulate thoughts and give out ideas. And remembered from the distant.
      There was a small military unit near my house. Each morning, an officer drove soldiers, naked to the waist, for a run up the street. And this is the foothill slope of the steep steepness. Just to go - you’ll mess up! I do not know how much they ran, but they returned, led by an officer, soon and soared. On a hot southern morning, in icy winter rain and even snow. In any weather. None of the soldiers were ill - we were interested. You can’t hide anything, a small town. Part was - signalmen!
      In a modern way - botanists.
  26. Galleon
    Galleon 2 September 2019 10: 21
    +2
    Guys, enough platitudes. Remember your youth better. A 150kg box should be taken not 8, but 10 young sailors or soldiers, otherwise they will not be dragged. I came across young snot and pasta from the breed both in 1987, and in 1990, and in 1992. As for the urban and village ones, then for some vus, like radiometrists - telephonists - telegraphists, it is more convenient to take city boys. Although I managed the village ones: both the Lipchan and the Westerner. Let's bring up a family of men, and the whole problem. What, the Russian land has become impoverished by smart and decisive boys? Yes, horseradish there! Of course, there are children who have not found themselves, well, so much depends on the mentors. Sergeants have such a life - to educate and instruct. Grumble? let them grumble, but they’re doing their job. In which I wish them health and patience. drinks
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 September 2019 12: 30
      +4
      Quote: Galleon
      Guys, enough platitudes. Remember your youth better. A 150kg box should be taken not 8, but 10 young sailors or soldiers, otherwise they will not be dragged.

      Plus the sergeant - to really dragged, not dumped. Because each of those dragging believes that since there are a lot of people, then if he personally relaxes a little, no one will notice, others will drag. Father in Plesetsk observed the compartment dragging the equipment rack: they began to carry the belts at damage, and after ten meters the rack was already dragging along the ground.
    2. Mekey Iptyshev
      Mekey Iptyshev 3 September 2019 06: 02
      0
      150 kg always dragged four. The first days of 6 people dragged, were afraid that we would drop and boom lol In theory, three will easily carry away, but inconveniently.
      It was in 2000-2002
      Now a generation, heavier than "mouse" did not drag. Nephews from the city for 10 years physically (raise, carry away, etc.) are inferior to my 7th nephews from the village
      I'm sure. That many guys in 18 with our villages would be dragged in 3-4 instead of 8,5 in the article.
    3. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 3 September 2019 13: 44
      0
      Well, I don’t know. The favorite entertainment of our sergeants was screaming a fire at a post like this (farthest) to load two fire extinguishers (large) full of sand on a fighter and drive at least 3 kilometers
  27. Catfish
    Catfish 2 September 2019 10: 26
    +3
    It is necessary to change the entire system, the army is just a concentrated, mirror image of life in the country.
    1. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 3 September 2019 13: 45
      0
      who will these bulk amoeba be?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 3 September 2019 14: 02
        0
        That's the point, Andrey, that neither in reality, nor on the horizon is there a True Leader.
        But Navalny is not talking at all.
  28. Galina schreder
    Galina schreder 2 September 2019 11: 25
    0
    Well, it should be noted rightly that the peers of these, amoebas, and therefore their potential adversary from other countries, are the same.
    1. depressant
      depressant 2 September 2019 14: 15
      +1
      Galina, you are right.
      During the Second World War, a huge number of people from different countries died. Most of them are men. Then the women were brought up by widow women. Many of the women, in order not to be alone in old age, gave birth to children out of wedlock. Imagine how they took care of the boys, how they took care of them, how they carried them. Moreover, more boys are born, but by the age of 5, the numbers are equalized, since small boys sometimes die for unexplained reasons. Or by their own negligence. Once, I remember, so the grandson of the neighbors died. Just took and died, and no pathology ...
      In general, in many countries, the first post-war generation of selfish men has grown up, accustomed to the fact that someone should take care of them, and not necessarily about someone else. Of course, I am exaggerating, but the fact that in this generation there were more irresponsible people than in all the previous ones is for sure. The skills of irresponsibility, passed from one generation to the next, were gradually consolidated. This, as colleagues correctly noted here, was also facilitated by urbanization with its low need for physical labor. The "urban" attitude towards men is gradually spreading to the countryside. Hence - many costs of conscription.
      I read about the role of sergeants in the American army. The sergeant must be a ruthless beast and demand extra strength from the soldier. Suffering humiliation and insults from the sergeant, the collective of soldiers rallying against him, but also forcedly learning his lessons, sooner or later turns out to be a close-knit military unit capable of solving combat missions, and gradually begins to respect the sergeant for justice.
      Such is the opinion, not mine.
      I am, nevertheless, for the commanding staff to respect the soldiers without showing excessive brutality in their attitude. But rigor and exactingness are needed, this is the army! Until he fulfilled the order as it should, he was not free.
      1. Rey_ka
        Rey_ka 3 September 2019 13: 46
        0
        As someone said that "men are accidentally surviving boys"
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 3 September 2019 14: 13
        0
        In general, in many countries, the first post-war generation of male egoists has grown up, who are accustomed that someone should take intensive care of them, and they themselves do not have to


        Good afternoon, Lyudmila love . I don’t know how in other countries, but I know how it was in mine. I myself am from that same post-war generation (born in 1947), and my house friends and conscripted servants, as you know, were my peers. People, as always and everywhere, were different, but they took care of themselves, as a rule, themselves; there were enough egoists, but there were only a few sissies. So you are in some way completely wrong. It is not customary for women to be interested in age, but I think you are pretty younger than me, otherwise how can you explain that from scratch you have built a completely unviable theory.
        Sincerely, M.Kot. hi
  29. Maalkavianin
    Maalkavianin 2 September 2019 12: 06
    +1
    Well, these guys can be understood. For a year, for the most part, they were taken away, and not voluntarily they went there. So this kind of nonsense and somewhere dumb behavior is quite normal. This service is unnecessary for them, not interesting.
  30. Shuttle
    Shuttle 2 September 2019 12: 15
    0
    I really liked the article. She's true. And the author, as it were, asks very correct questions, the answers to which, as it seems to me, lie not in the army itself, but outside it. Well, really, it is not the army that is to blame for the fact that the bulk (not all!) Of the recruits are more like a smoothie with muffin or, at best, ice cream in Glace coffee? No, of course not the army. Who? Let's get it in order.
    What is the army and why does the state need it?
    This is not an army, but some kind of kindergarten / boarding house for noble maidens. Where parents who did not attach the little finger to the upbringing and preparation of their offspring, simply shed it with the words "there they will at least do something!".

    I heard this phrase myself. Not a “man,” but “at least something.”

    Let's be honest. The state needs soldiers in case of war. Many soldiers. At least this has been the case in all recent major (i.e., global) military conflicts. Therefore, the expression "at least something" means at least a warrior-protector. What qualities should such an individual possess? Mutual assistance, courage, determination, perseverance in achieving goals, loyalty to duty. Note - not a word so far about general physical training. Indeed, for a year, even with an army fuse, you can only make a man out of a nerd by informing him, instilling in him the necessary moral attitudes.
    In other words, the pupa, the larva of the man, the adolescent must finally turn into the imago of an adult man. Someone who, to solve most of the daily tasks, will not turn to some kind of cloud of public services such as "calling a husband for an hour", but he himself will find a way to cope with the task. Initiation must take place. Almost like in a primitive society. Those. the life of a man of the male sex is divided into before and after the army. Before the army, it is rather a very big child, after the army - like a man. The army is a kind of external indicator.


    I apologize, our army is an educational institution such as a cadet school? Or a charitable institution for the education of worthless? At the expense of the budget?

    Therefore, yes, the army in the USSR, at least in the post-war period, and in modern, globally non-belligerent Russia is incl. and a tool for the preparation, transformation of "worthless" with tz. performing military tasks in reserve in case of a global nix. And at the same time turning them into men. As I noted above, this is a kind of collective jumping over a fire or ritual scarring.


    Yes, I'm really scared from these amoebas that fall into the troops. They should be taught there in just a year to use sometimes very complex equipment. With the prospect that they will not forget it.

    First of all, it seems to me, they should not be taught technique, but should be men. The paratroopers have a wonderful slogan "Nobody but us." This thing must be stamped into the head of every soldier.
    For this, society must finally understand that each individual is valuable, very valuable to society. But there are those values ​​that are more important than oneself. Not just anyone else, but yourself. For this, a person (including a soldier) must have knowledge that the universe, incl. and his country, his homeland was created not so much for his personal private enjoyment, but for something higher and more durable.
    I do not exclude that there may be individuals who are capable of becoming real men without an army life. But they are rather happy and very rare exceptions than rules. And yes, situations can happen in people's lives that take their consciousness even to a higher level than the army. But still, for the vast majority of highly educated minors, the kind words of caring sergeants are needed. Well, not-so-kind words are also sometimes needed.
    Note that in tsarist virtually feudal Russia, military construction remained, as before, fundamentally feudal. Those. there existed, though already leaving, but one way or another, the estate of the professional military, as well as a long conscription service. The Red Army / Soviet Army had different goals and objectives - the general military duty was to educate future recruits from recruits in case of war. Professional military personnel were needed almost exclusively for this work. Strategic Missile Forces as troops on constant alert, but t.s. short-term and single-use are not considered here for obvious reasons.
    Modern Russia, reproducing the social order prevailing before communism, those ... capitalism is returning to the construction of an army similar, i.e. to professional soldiers.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 2 September 2019 13: 11
      -3
      Now it’s not soldiers who are needed on a mass scale, but modern equipment and people who are capable of working with it from those soldiers if their aircraft, missiles and artillery are reset?
      1. Shuttle
        Shuttle 2 September 2019 13: 18
        +2
        Quote: Kronos
        Now it’s not soldiers who are needed on a mass scale, but modern equipment and people who are capable of working with it from those soldiers if their aircraft, missiles and artillery are reset?

        I guess I did not accurately express my thought. The army as a public body has not only the task of directly protecting itself from external aggression, but also the task of educating the country's masculine population. Those. army is t.s. testicles of society.
      2. ty60
        ty60 3 September 2019 23: 36
        0
        Forced to correct, artillery. One of the most high-tech types of troops.
  31. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 2 September 2019 13: 30
    +3
    Everything is always treated simply. I didn’t pass the standards - I stayed for the second year.
    Yes, no doubt, a large field for hazing and corruption, but this is at least some option.
  32. lukewarm
    lukewarm 2 September 2019 14: 04
    +2
    Yeah. Not to say that I can’t sleep and eat, but periodically a question arises similar to this
    Indeed, what now to do? What to do tomorrow, when these Internet ones will make up the whole mass of appeal? Where to run if the simplest and unicellular are our everything tomorrow?

    And this is sad truth. Behind the scenes there is still that the most scorched of these Internet worthless things still climb to rally. And one of them will fall into power. Under the current selection system - the most vile. Think about it - is it worth living to old age ...
  33. AleBors
    AleBors 2 September 2019 14: 29
    +1
    "this" someone "must sit in the Kremlin and understand the essence of the problem." Should. But there is no such thing in the foreseeable future. And the problem with "unicellular" species has already reached the dimensions of a disaster. At my enterprise, such "miracles" appear. Can't do anything, doesn't want to do anything. But immediately: "What are my prospects"? Live until the evening first, I always answer ...
    The worst thing is that soon all these protozoa will come to power and manage production ...
  34. tolancop
    tolancop 2 September 2019 14: 36
    +1
    Armless and headless have always been. And in Soviet times, too, despite the NVP and so on. Perhaps their percentage was much lower. But there is a problem .... And it must be solved. But how? .... And the author described - a sergeant ruthless and chasing up a sweat, and then ... tear the skin for poor performance. And, I think, it always has been. And in all the armies .... Everything has already been invented before us ..... The problem is different: let's say there is such a sergeant-enthusiast and will start to make something worthy of amoeba .... and soon the military prosecutor will draw alongside everyone flowing ...
  35. AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 2 September 2019 14: 44
    +2
    When I served a conscript, there was a motto in the army: "If you don't know how, we'll teach, if you don't want to, we'll force you."
  36. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 2 September 2019 15: 15
    0
    The fact that the weak call is not to blame for the Internet and computers with smartphones is the fault of the education and training system in Russia
    Hehe ... What is a PEOPLE? The people are a tradition. Code of conduct and laws of conduct of this people. The way his representatives react to typical situations and behave in them. In order for the people to remain so, the Tradition must be passed from senior to younger. Fathers and grandfathers are obliged time after time to go through these situations with children, in which children are little by little, and to teach them what Russian should be like.
    What do we have? In 1917 it was said that no Russians, Kazakhs, Jews and other Assyrians were needed. Now "a new community of people has appeared - the Soviet people! Urrryaaa!" Ugh ... The Soviet people had a lot of achievements, of course. However, on June 22, 41, he showed himself in full. During the first six months of the war, the Soviet people lost almost the entire country, which they declared their own, almost only deserts remained at their disposal.
    The top leadership carefully swept the "new community of people" under the dirty shop, where, frankly speaking, there was nothing but a place for it. And suddenly from every loudspeaker, from every newspaper page, from every poster - Russian, Russian, RUSSIAN! Yes it worked. The Russians were still able to return. They took away the RUSSIAN country from the Germans and other enlightened Europeans. They showed MASS heroism unprecedented in history, which no one can remember at all.
    After the end of the War, the Soviet leadership showed its honor, honesty and gratitude by diligently restricting the rights and opportunities of the Russian people in favor of everyone else. And with renewed vigor it took up a "new historical community of people", only now "national cadres" were valued immeasurably higher than any despicable Russians. In the Baltics, these miserable Russians were "not understood", in some Georgia they simply refused to serve them in public catering, because a proud Georgian cannot serve a despicable Russian.
    And even more so, the Russians were categorically, absolutely, completely forbidden to follow some kind of "national traditions"! The Russian had absolutely no right to tradition! On Soviet posters, the darkness of nations and nationalities was depicted in their national costumes, the Russian in a three-piece suit. The Russian did not have the right to his national costume. And he was allowed to be Russian ... since he cannot completely refuse it ... but the fact that he is now "the Soviet people" was hammered into him with all his might all his life.
    In the 90s, the Soviet people, by order of their superiors, meekly surrendered their country again. Now he, this obviously hated people in "his" country, was even supposedly allowed to be called Russian! He once again threw the Soviet country into the trash. Nobody frowned when calling themselves Russian! It seems to be ... Of course, if the authorities have to compare this unpleasant Russian with any, absolutely any representative of any non-Russian nationality, the Russian has not the slightest chance. He's Russian! What opportunities does he have against some Armenian, or, scary to say, a Chechen ?! Yes, no ...

    And what is it ... in general ... And what is it - to be Russian? Who remembers? 65 years, with a break for the War, the Russian Tradition mercilessly, furiously, selflessly poisoned and trampled. Absolutely everything was destroyed, including the bad habit of having your own home. In this own house, the damned Russians settled with the whole family, and grandfathers stubbornly taught their grandchildren all these hated Russian skills. So it was more and more difficult to have a home in the RSFSR. You are not Chechen! Not a Dagestan, not an Azerbaijani! So the OBHSS will count every grain of sand in the yard, you will spend water through 10 in years, and you don’t even stutter about the sewage system! But how comfortable it will be for you in two odnushki in different parts of the city! And you’re better off halfway across the country. We have an industrial power here, there is nothing for grandfathers and grandchildren to live ...
    In general, we are not Russian already. We do not know how to do this. We do not remember, do not know how, do not know. We bring up children according to foreign books, which are caught. We do not sing Russian songs to them. All sorts of Anglo-Saxons do it for their children, but we do not. We put Western records to them (you won’t sing them, so here’s your player and go ahead), and we run away to work, to rest, anywhere, because we are simply zero in the education of a RUSSIAN person. Admit it. Zero. How was this done ?!
    And only the authorities will not subside in their zeal to crush the Russian harder. Yes, he is almost gone, Russian! Who will protect your money, shame ?! Kadyrov will send a hundred divisions to the front? Are you seriously?! What you saw there now on the topic of "education of patriotism" (but not Russian. Russians cannot. Russian ... dear ...) will it work? Are you there already ?! E-mine ...
    1. Minato2020
      Minato2020 2 September 2019 22: 18
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      And what is it - to be Russian? Who remembers? 65 years, with a break for the War, the Russian Tradition mercilessly, furiously, selflessly poisoned and trampled ...


      As far as I remember, this was not called Tradition, Heritage.
      Hence the words are different, for example - Inheritance, Heir, Inheritance ...
      And they didn’t call before
      Orthodox
      ,
      Faithful ...

      though it was a long time ago, almost forgotten.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 3 September 2019 09: 14
        0
        Oh no. The Russian people are immeasurably older than Orthodoxy, Christianity, etc. He is older than pagan beliefs, which we remember. Although you are right that the religion preserves the tradition in the first place, it is intended precisely for this. Alas, the forced construction of churches and the alienation of existing ones, to put it mildly, is not the way in which faith is restored. On this path the priesthood is only corrupted, which faith does not contribute.
        We forgot. We don't remember ... By the way, I once discovered an interesting fact. I became interested in the so-called "primordially Russian" martial arts. Climbed into the network. I survived about a week of terrible computer slowdowns, while everyone who wanted to install their spyware on me (antiviruses do not catch them, some because they are too perfect, others because they show an ID, and the antivirus does it under the hood ... however, we must pay tribute , the performance of the computer then recovered.Apparently, having downloaded all the data from it, the interested parties calmed down). He began to delve into.
        In general, the picture turned out like this. If you trade in multi-colored belts to the effect of "folk songs", if you jump around self-made idols in the mainstream of "Rodnoverie", then you don't have the slightest problem. But if you are trying to revive at least something from the Tradition ... I found that in this case the school, the training center, the teachers, are in trouble. They are completely random and have nothing to do with anything, but the structure collapses inevitably, the teacher either sits down or dies. Every single case is perfect ...
        In general, I threw my search. Has long been...
        1. Minato2020
          Minato2020 16 September 2019 14: 58
          0
          Quote: Mikhail3
          ... In general, the picture turned out like this. If you trade in multi-colored belts to the effect of "folk songs", if you jump around self-made idols in the mainstream of "Rodnoverie", then you don't have the slightest problem. But if you are trying to revive at least something from the Tradition ...
          I found that in this case, the school, the training center, the teachers are in trouble. Absolutely random and irrelevant, but the structure collapses irrevocably, the teacher either sits down or dies. Each individual case is impeccable ...
          In general, I threw my search. Has long been...


          This inertia of the universe is described by the Strugatskys in the story "In a Billion Years ..."
          Searches will sooner or later lead to the effect of the hundredth monkey
          http://blog.i.ua/user/295100/691130/
    2. ty60
      ty60 3 September 2019 23: 46
      0
      I’m Ural Cossack by father. I’m Volga German by mother. As a result, I’m a Russian, press and try! Morally crushed lazy people justify themselves from everything — especially from their own inaction and laziness. Here he is an iPhone with a tablet.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 4 September 2019 09: 07
        -1
        Russian? Good. So let the Russians now fight. The Russians are no longer needed, and you no longer consider yourself Russian. Here are the goodies ...
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. igorra
    igorra 2 September 2019 16: 26
    0
    And how do you command me to work with them? There is no choice either, or such infantiles with a slight degree of moron - internetization, or our smaller brothers, the essence is migrant workers.
  39. Ursus
    Ursus 2 September 2019 17: 27
    -3
    My opinion: there is nothing for conscripts to do in the army! Motivation - 0. They shaved, and the loss of a year of life (but in fact - not a year, but 2-3). You should not expect initiatives and quickness from them, because they don’t need it: they are out of the stick, 9 out of 10.
    1. tatarin1972
      tatarin1972 3 September 2019 10: 49
      +1
      What about the preparation of the mobilization reserve ?!
      1. Ursus
        Ursus 3 September 2019 11: 07
        -2
        Purely soviet approach: the main quantity, and the quality .. well, somehow, according to statistics and brave reports we will carry out. It is necessary to feed this horde of loafers, to dress, shoe and spend resources on them. At the same time, the state does not count exactly as many qualified specialists at significant production sites as the military registration and enlistment office zagreb for compulsory service (and where they spent a year pearing).

        Only those who are motivated should be called upon! And pay with dignity. Then it will be good.

        You can get a horde of woodpeckers at any time. A month of "quarantine", they gave him one shot, was sworn in and pushed "into the fields." And they should be prepared by those who, in peacetime, connected their lives with this and received sufficient training in theory and practice. That's the whole mobilization reserve.
        1. tatarin1972
          tatarin1972 3 September 2019 14: 58
          0
          Of course, I don't know much about the current army, I served in the "soviet invincible and legendary", so we had classes in quarantine, and they trained normally, it all depends on the command.
          1. Ursus
            Ursus 4 September 2019 13: 28
            0
            Somehow you got a strange "then" and "now" mixed up. "Then" - yes: invincible and legendary. And they taught differently and the goals of the Army were different: if they suddenly attack, then we will immediately push the enemy back into his territory. To do this, you need to have a large army and a good mobile reserve in peacetime. The attacker, according to the rules, must have at least 3 times more advantages than the defender. But we are talking about "now" and you need to decide on a strategy, i.e. what is the army for?

            If the offensive strategy remains, then yes, we shave half a million recruits 2 times a year, drive them to buy potatoes, to build and to help sponsored farms. We feed, shoe, shoe, place, and keep the parasites, from which the economy of the state (C) "100 rubles a loss and not a penny of income."

            If the strategy is defensive, then the crowds of yellow-faced children who DO NOT WANT to serve are not needed! It is enough to have a small army of well-trained specialists, and training programs for which, in case of an adversary's attack, you can quickly call and train young animals. If you want to serve, please: prepare, motivate, create the conditions and serve! It is prestigious and worthy of being paid. And to drive a camp of idiots who just think how to rummage around and wait for a demobilization - see above, about an army with an offensive strategy.
            1. tatarin1972
              tatarin1972 5 September 2019 17: 14
              0
              In the event of an attack, there will be no time to train the mobilized, does the 1941 experience tell you anything? How many survived from the divisions of the militia? In the event of a large-scale war, the personnel army will burn out very quickly. Yes, and not only need to be trained, units must be put together, harmonious.
              1. Ursus
                Ursus 5 September 2019 21: 10
                0
                Listen, you just don’t hang noodles to me about 41 year.
                How many Stalin had armies (tank, assault, and all sorts) at the time of the attack, and how many Hitler (similar)? Not up to date, by any chance? And how many of those tanks \ planes \ ammunition went to the Germans, and they, by the way, fought for them for a very, very long time!

                And if all of them are put forward directly to the border, selected \ do not give ammunition \ forbid to return fire under the fear of the Military Tribunal - then there will not be enough personnel, no matter how much they are trained.
              2. Ursus
                Ursus 5 September 2019 21: 12
                0
                Yes, and by the way, somehow the Finns managed to stop the advance of the Red Army, no matter how powerful it was. And the forces were unequal. Let them not stop at all, but they detained them and drank blood - be real!
                Suvorov used to say: you need to beat not with number, but with skill!
        2. ty60
          ty60 3 September 2019 23: 54
          +1
          Sorry, in Germany, the service in the Bundeswehr provides the right to enter the university without exams. The same year of service. And this is motivation.
  40. Radikal
    Radikal 2 September 2019 18: 29
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: AUL
    IMHO, Roman somewhat exaggerates, but not much. And, most importantly, these ciliates are a phenomenon not only in the army. After the demobilization, they return home and merge into civilian life, remaining all the same ciliates. And this is scary!

    So in the whole world! Alas...

    Worked in western companies: their youth (engineers, as it were) to the construction site from the office-trailer, from the company, -You will not tear by no means! No knowledge, no practice ....

    Easterners, Indians, Indonesians work "in the field" ...

    Where are those Engineers who built the WHOLE WORLD? And they are already gone, I found the last gurus in the late 1990s and early 200s.

    So this is a problem not only in Russia .....

    Does this somehow have to console us? sad
  41. xax
    xax 2 September 2019 23: 07
    +5
    Ponadergal quotes from the Internet:
    Socrates, V c. BC.:
    Today's young people are accustomed to luxury, they are distinguished by bad manners, despise authorities, do not respect elders, children argue with adults, greedily swallow food, and harass teachers.

    Hesiod, 720 BC:
    I have lost all hope of the future of our country if today's youth tomorrow takes over the reins of government. For these youth are unbearable, unstable, just awful

    M.Yu. Lermontov, 19th century (about his generation):
    Sadly I look at our generation!
    His future - il is empty, il is dark,
    Meanwhile, under the burden of knowledge and doubt,
    Inaction, it will age.


    And so on, so on. The question, at least, is not new.
    The author forgets that he is no longer young and is steadily aging, and therefore cannot fully soberly judge the current young generation. People have always had this characteristic. Such, for example, are the foundations of Confucianism - "the father did more correctly than you, and the grandfather - more correct than the father" (forgive the free interpretation).

    Why am I. Taking care of youth education is good. But decadent moods slipping in the article, as well as insults to an entire social group, are already bad.
  42. xax
    xax 2 September 2019 23: 45
    +6
    And yes. It is not the young generation that should be blamed, listing the unpleasant epithets regarding it in a whole paragraph, but the state system in terms of educating young people.
    Is physical fitness bad? And you go, send the child to some more or less sensible sports section. Not everyone suits paid options. If you find shareware options, then all the same you will have to invest money regularly in this matter - uniforms, equipment, trips to competitions and so on, otherwise nothing will come of it. It turns out that now not everyone can afford to have their child go in for sports.
    Even in the 90s it was much easier with all kinds of children's circles and sections. At that time, they were not all closed since the days of the Union, there was a choice, there was an inventory (well-worn - but free), there were teachers who worked with children for a penny. Now all this has naturally sunk into oblivion, but there’s practically nothing new, and what’s there is more for a tick and for budget development, or it costs a lot of money.
    1. ty60
      ty60 4 September 2019 00: 09
      0
      The rural guys are more prepared for independent living, the level of education really greatly levels them out. Well, you can’t divide them into two different castes — those who are able to learn and those who don’t want to. The army will dress and dress. The peasant absorbs new things for himself. He feels himself more advanced and progresses more. The correct approach to training is the oldest way in the army, one for all and all for one. The platoon counts for the last soldier. Not the whole platoon runs in again. The lazy are quickly treated by colleagues.
  43. Whisper
    Whisper 3 September 2019 00: 40
    -3
    Biomass stiffened and almost offended by such an article!
    1. Ursus
      Ursus 3 September 2019 11: 08
      +1
      An exhaustive, in its depth and insight, conclusion! What is your name, thinker?
      1. Whisper
        Whisper 3 September 2019 12: 01
        -2
        I just see these young people, these dandelions, who at the age of 17 did not hold anything heavier than a smartphone. We are losing character in the nation ...
  44. Archon
    Archon 3 September 2019 05: 25
    0
    It all started earlier. Already in the 2011 year, the army said that "now it’s just such a children's camp, and our task is to return you home safe and sound."
  45. Mekey Iptyshev
    Mekey Iptyshev 3 September 2019 05: 52
    0
    Served urgently and a little under contract. "Contrabass" was shocked by the young recruitment. Now the situation is even worse, judging from a conversation with the soldiers.
    BUT THERE IS ONE. The same kind of situation is not only in the Russian Federation, but also in many armies of the world. Not only in Russia, many "for the PC of the master of war", laughing So in the future, "torn from the Internet" from both sides will fight laughing
  46. ryadovoi VS
    ryadovoi VS 3 September 2019 09: 54
    0
    Reluctant to serve, work too-Money Yes! And petrodollars from the sale of oil and gas is Yes!
    And Putin is to blame for the fact that they were all born flawed at the wrong time
  47. tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 3 September 2019 10: 46
    0
    I understand the sergeants, although all the time from the military I heard the same idea that with each young replenishment it gets worse, both physically and psychologically: "The Fatherland demands heroes, but only fools and poor are born." I remember myself in the first period of service, I was stupid, slowed down, so that "the pads were smoking." But then there were simpler times, a sergeant or senior servicemen could turn off the "fool's button". And now we live in a state governed by the rule of law, everyone knows everything about their rights, but for some reason they forget about responsibilities.
  48. golem
    golem 3 September 2019 12: 50
    0
    This is a problem for the whole world .... but maybe it’s good for everyone to benefit? There will be fewer conflicts with such soldiers. Fear of starting a war
  49. bogart047
    bogart047 3 September 2019 13: 43
    -1
    deal with hazing first, and then complain about the recruits. Any mentally normal person with the instinct of self-preservation will spare no effort to enroll and not to join the army with those who did not enroll (that is, children of marginals). Start with yourself, teach not to sweep the parade ground with a crowbar, but for something real. You can sweep and peel potatoes on a civilian
    1. Kaetani
      Kaetani 3 September 2019 22: 53
      +1
      With a comment, they were late for many years about bullying. Yes, and now you can learn only on the road - there would be a desire
  50. trophy
    trophy 3 September 2019 13: 44
    +1
    For that fought for it and ran. Did you want a competent consumer, an amorphous connoisseur of your rights and a fan of the stable presence of tits in your hands? Receive and sign. This is a safe artificially grown product that does not know how to think, analyze and make decisions. A safety buffer for those who "dance girls".