Military Review

Unknown Celebrity: Juan Caetano de Langara

38
People are completely different, even outstanding. An outstanding person can do different things, great and remaining in stories, can never make mistakes, can become outstanding only because of the mistakes made by him during important historical events. But there are a number of outstanding people who, deprived of ambitions and craving for fame, just do their job, do quality and hard, develop science, educate a new generation of specialists, courageously fight in battles, let them not win big battles. Don Juan de Langaru, captain-general, naval commander, cartographer and even politician can be safely called such a person in the Armada of the 2 half of the 18th century.


Unknown Celebrity: Juan Caetano de Langara


Protégé Jorge Juan


Juan Cayetano de Langara and Huarte was born in 1736 into a noble Basque family who lived in La Coruña but came from Andalusia. His father, Juan de Langara and Aritsmundi, was also a sailor, a representative of the first "Bourbon" generations of Armada officers, fought at Passaro under the command of Admiral Gastagneta and rose to the rank of captain general fleet. The son decided to follow in his father's footsteps, and at the age of 14 he received the title of midshipman, undergoing training in Cadiz. There, he was immediately noticed by the recent return from England of Jorge Juan, who was surprised by the talents shown in Langara in the field of mathematics and the exact sciences. As a result of this, Juan Caetano got the opportunity to continue his studies in Paris, which he also completed with success. During this time, he already managed to build up a certain reputation for himself as a learned husband, humble, but quite active and brave. After completing his studies in Paris, the time began for active maritime practice and gaining real experience of a sailor.

Initially, Langara participated in sailing along the coasts of Spain and Africa, improving his skills as a junior officer, but by the 30 years he was considered an experienced and reliable veteran, especially skilled in navigation. In 1766-1771 years, he made a number of voyages to the Philippines, where he confirmed his reputation, and also began to gradually improve his skills in cartography. In 1773, Langara made the fourth voyage to Manila, this time along with another future celebrity of Armada, Jose de Masarreda. Together they dealt with issues of astronavigation and determining distances from stars. This was followed by a new voyage, already in the 1774 year, with a new special task - to map the exact outlines of the Atlantic coast of Spain and America. This time, in addition to Masarreda, other outstanding Armada sailors sailed on board the frigate Rosalia with Langara - Juan Jose Ruiz de Apodaka (future father-in-law of Cosme Damian Churruka), Jose Varela Uloa, Diego de Alvear and Ponce de Leon.

Like many other bright figures of the navy of that time, Langara began his career with scientific work, where he achieved significant success and wide enough recognition, although not such as, for example, Jorge Juan. But, like many other scientists associated with the Armada, he also had to carry out military missions. For the first time, he entered full service in the 1776 year, becoming the commander of the battleship Poderoso under the command of Admiral Marquis de Casatilla (Casa-Tilly). There he took an active part in the capture of the Sacramento colony, the capture of the Assension fortress on the island of Santa Catalina (where he met Federico Gravina), and during the defense of the island of Martin Garcia. Acting on land and at sea, Langara was noted in dozens of minor skirmishes, and is now known not only as a scientist, but also as a brave soldier who does not lose his temper in any situation, even in a marine position unusual for him. This quickly nominated him from among other officers, and in the 1779 year, when the war with Great Britain began, he received under his command a whole division in the West Indies, consisting of two battleships (Poderoso and Leandro) and two frigates. At the same time, fate decided to try out Langara, because due to the stormy weather the Poderoso soon sat down on the stones, and only thanks to the organizational abilities of its commander it was possible to avoid great casualties and losses - the crew was saved and transferred to the Leandro. The rest of the ships meanwhile acted quite effectively, driving away the English privateers, and soon a major success followed - the capture of the English frigate "Vincheon" off the island of Santa Maria. For these successes, Langar was promoted to brigadier and transferred to the metropolis, having received a whole squadron under his command.

Military affairs


The most important event of the 1779-1783 war of the year for the metropolis was the Great Siege of Gibraltar, which turned into an impressive action involving great forces, stretching over all four years and becoming a clear illustration of all the strengths and weaknesses of Spain at that time. Langara received under his command a squadron consisting of 9 battleships and 2 frigates, which was supposed to provide a distant blockade of the British stronghold. Appointed on December 11 1779 of the year, just a month later, on January 14 of 1780 of the year, he had to fight the British in a very disadvantageous situation. Just at that time, a large supply convoy led by Admiral George Rodney was going to Gibraltar. 18 battleships and 6 frigates were guarded, but their numerical advantage was not their trump card. Langara, seeing superior enemy forces, immediately turned his ships towards the base, but the British gradually began to catch up with them. The reason for this was that most of Rodney’s ships had an innovation in the technology of that time — copper lining of the bottom, due to which fouling was minimized, while the Spanish ships did not have such lining, the bottom was not cleaned for a long time, as a result of which lost in speed.

On a clear moonlit night, a battle broke out in which the twice-superior British forces piled on the Spanish squadron. It was almost the only night battle for the entire XVIII century, which ended in the complete defeat of the Langara squadron. Both frigates and two battleships of the Spaniards fled; one ship, Santo Domingo, exploded. The remaining six battleships were captured by the British, but two (“San Eugenio” and “San Julian”) somehow “disappeared” from history - the Spaniards insist that after the battle, when the British had already towed trophies to themselves, severely beaten and lagging behind the general order, the ships were blown away by the wind and current to the coastal cliffs, and the British on board were forced to free the Spanish crews in order to save their lives, as a result of which the parties quickly changed places, and the ships returned to the beginning of the Spanish crown. Among the four trophies that Admiral Rodney nevertheless brought to his base, there was also the badly beaten flagship Real Phoenix (launched in the 1749 year, Royal Navy was commissioned as Gibraltar, and served until the 1836 year). The foreman Langara fought bravely, but received three severe wounds, his ship suffered heavy losses, lost all its masts and was forced to surrender. The British were very respectful of the captured brigadier and soon even released back to Spain. This defeat had no effect on Langara’s career - the battle conditions were too unequal, and the fact that the British sheathed the bottom of their ships with copper was known even from the time of the spying history of Jorge Juan, but no reaction from the highest ranks of Armada to this was followed. Moreover - he was kindly courted at the court, promoted to the rank of vice admiral.



Already in 1783, Langara was appointed to command the detachment, which, as part of the allied Franco-Spanish squadron, was to carry out an invasion of Jamaica, but the end of the war led to the cancellation of the expedition. The next ten years he spent in routine, dealing with the organization of the fleet, cartography and much more. In the 1793 year, when the war with the Revolutionary France began, he turned out to be one of those who were popular both in the court and in the navy, as a result of which Juan de Langara became the commander of the Spanish squadron of 18 pennants, which begins to operate together with the Allied British in the Mediterranean. Here, Langar, who raised the flag on the 112 cannon of Reina Louise, had to act not only as a naval commander, but also as a diplomat, and even as a politician. Together with his younger flagship, Federico Gravina, he took part in the defense of the royalist Toulon from the Republican army. When it became clear that the matter was rubbish and the city would soon fall, the British Admiral Hood rushed to rob the city (according to the Spaniards) and burn the French ships that were in port in order to eliminate the danger from the republic to the sea in the future. Langara, on the other hand, defended the French fleet, for he understood that the war with France was a temporary phenomenon, and the preservation of the French fleet was in the interests of Spain. Because he, acting through diplomacy and threats, reduced damage to a minimum - only 9 ships were burned by the British, and 12 left Toulon with the allies, and in fact passed under their command. 25 more ships remained in Toulon, and were as a result captured by the Republicans.

After that, the allied relations between the Spaniards and the British significantly deteriorated, and Langara withdrew his ships to Catalonia, where he provided widespread support for the army, which at that time was fighting the French on land. In particular, his ships helped defend the coastal city of Roses, and also prevented the support of the French courts, capturing the frigate Iphigenia during a short-lived battle. However, the war was already nullifying, and peace was soon signed at San Ildefonso. First, Langara was promoted to Captain-General of the Department of Cadiz, then appointed Minister of Armada, and from 1797 of the year - Captain-General of Armada and its director (the way the Spanish Ministry of the Sea was often reformed at that time was worthy of separate sarcastic applause), having received a post in the State advice. This was a logical result of all his activities, everyone saw him as a worthy head of the Ministry of the Sea, but he did not stay with them for a long time, having retired in 1799. The reasons for this are not entirely clear - on the one hand, Langara was already at a fairly respectable age (63 of the year), had health problems that could just cause a completely deliberate resignation. At the same time, as a naval sailor and patriot, he could not observe how Godoy’s government acted with Armada, and the resignation could be a sign of protest - and, if so, it was not a unique case. Be that as it may, Juan de Langara, a knight of the orders of Santiago and Carlos III, then retired, did not interfere in politics, lived a private life for his pleasure, and died in the year 1806. I could not find information about his children, but he definitely had a wife, and not a simple one - and the Marquise Maria Lutgarda de Ulloa herself, the daughter of the famous don Antonio de Ulloa.

Celebrity


Separately, it is worth telling about how this person was perceived by contemporaries, how much he is known in our time, and what trace he left in history. With all this, it’s both difficult and simple. So, in modern Spain, the name of Langara is well known, but not so widely - ships, streets, schools are not named in his honor, monuments are not erected to him. Outside the borders of Spain, the situation is even more modest - even many flotophiles and history buffs from the times of the 18th century may simply not be aware of the existence of such a person as Juan Caetano de Langara and Huarte. Meanwhile, during his lifetime, he was quite a popular person abroad, having earned a respectful reputation among enemies, and in Spain itself was one of the figures of the Armada of the foreground. First of all, he was one of the heirs to the ideas of Jorge Juan, his protege and assistant. During his voyages to the Philippines and America, Langara repeatedly tested his ideas in practice, in fact led the movement of Spanish cartographers after Juan’s death, making an invaluable contribution to the development of this business. Langara himself more than once contacted with other outstanding sailors of Spain of his time, was friends with Masarreda and was a relative of Don Antonio de Ulloa.

Under his wing, many officers of the new generation of Armada, the last generation of Spain from the time of its greatness, were brought up before it collapsed into a deep crisis and lost the status of one of the leading powers in the world. Among his students, for example, is Federico Gravina, who acted under his command during the war with the Revolutionary France, who became a kind of heir to the manner of battle of his teacher - courageously and with maximum efficiency, even in case of defeat, in order to earn at least respect from the winners . Not having any outstanding achievements on a global scale, Juan de Langara became the "workhorse" of Armada both as an officer and as a naval commander, achieving the task in almost all cases - the failure with the Battle in the moonlight was almost the only such his career. Finally, when the time came again in 1804 to fight the British, he was one of two “old men” (besides Masarreda) whom Armada prophesied as his commanders-in-chief, with whom one could go to hell with the hell. But Langara was already old, and the “Francophile” Gravina was politically more profitable, as a result of which he was no longer destined to lead the fleet and lead him into battle in the almost hopeless conditions of the decline of the country, the fleet and the French dominance. Well, what not so many people remember about him today is the matter of those who are now living, and not of Juan de Langara, who until recently fulfilled his duty to the king and Spain, although he did not win over the eternal glory of great victories or the great bitterness of devastating defeats.

To be continued ....
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  1. Phil77
    Phil77 22 August 2019 18: 47
    +6
    But you, dear author, have rightly designated de Langar! An irreplaceable celebrity! You can evaluate his activity probably like this: he is widely known in narrow circles. Nevertheless, it is always interesting and most importantly informative! Definitely: thanks!
    1. arturpraetor
      22 August 2019 18: 51
      +6
      You're welcome hi In general, Langara is about the topic of what good naval commanders Spain had at the end of the 18th century. Although he did not shine, he clearly did not shine in the rear in terms of efficiency - rather, fate did not give him the opportunity to prove himself, than he did not possess any abilities. The only independent battle with a serious opponent - and that with a twofold superiority thereof ....
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 22 August 2019 18: 56
        +3
        And by the way, why did the Spaniards so disregard the materiel of their ships? I mean the unclean bottoms? Sloppiness? Can the roots of their failures grow from here and legs?
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 22 August 2019 19: 01
        +3
        I’ll add: to the technical innovations of that time (sheathing of the bottoms) there’s an incredible disregard for you! Financing the fleet according to the residual principle? laughing It’s unlikely, you see, because their fleet was not bad, but ... but ... and yet again. Something went wrong with them.
        1. tol100v
          tol100v 22 August 2019 19: 15
          +2
          There is an unforgettable phrase of Chernomyrdin (C): "We wanted the best, but it turned out, as always!"
        2. arturpraetor
          22 August 2019 19: 36
          +5
          Oh, how you suffered, colleague))) On points:
          Quote: Phil77
          And by the way, why did the Spaniards so disregard the materiel of their ships? I mean the unclean bottoms?

          And why suddenly sloppiness? Do you think it is possible to maintain a fleet of hundreds of pennants with constantly cleaned bottoms? That on it is not that docks - there is not enough money laughing The trouble is not that the Spanish ships did not go through the docking, but that they could compete in speed with the ships whose bottom is sheathed with copper, only immediately after leaving the dry dock, with an absolutely clean bottom. A couple of months at sea - and that’s it, speed drops. And how do you imagine the regular docking of the entire fleet in wartime? Moreover, the Langara squadron was almost always at sea.
          Quote: Phil77
          I will add: to the technical innovations of that time (sheathing the bottoms) well, an incredibly disregarding attitude!

          Do you judge by one single example with a bottom? laughing Not an indicator. In addition, you need to look at when the ships of Langara were built - I know for sure that the ships built in the late 1770s and later, if not all, then a significant part were already sheathed with copper. And in such a small novelty as ship barometers, and in terms of weather forecasting, the Spaniards were among the best, significantly ahead of the French and, in fact, going head to head with the British. The theoretical drawing of the hull is one of the most advanced, the development of the sails is one of the most advanced, the hull designs are one of the most advanced, the cannons are one of the best (they differed in that they did not burst suddenly, but first began to "crumble", and only then, when firing continued , already torn apart, the proprietary "feature" of La Cavada's cannons), where is the lag? I write about all this just in the articles.
          Quote: Phil77
          After all, their fleet was not bad, but ... but ... and yet again. Something went wrong with them.

          But you need to read carefully the articles laughing Against the background of biographies, I’m trying to describe what problems really were, what were not, which arose over time. The problems of the Armada itself are saving on salaries for sailors, and a strong politicization in the choice of naval commander admirals. The rest of the problems were either not very tragic or far-fetched. But by the time of Napoleonics, the Armada already had a lot of problems, for Spain had a lot of problems, which were rapidly declining.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 22 August 2019 19: 49
            +3
            So the problems have accumulated, it's a pity. I thank you for the convincing answer!
            1. arturpraetor
              22 August 2019 20: 00
              +4
              There is rather a close connection between the fate of the fleet and the fate of the state and the fact that a strong fleet of a new model is not created in the 18th century in a short time. While the state was developing steadily - the fleet was growing stronger, although it could not yet be compared with the British fleet, which had been developing since ancient times, and did not experience the decline that Armada experienced in the 2 half of the 17th century (its almost complete disappearance as a sane military force). Yes, there were schools, but in many ways this could be explained by growth problems or temporary omissions - the same Churruk, Retamos and others were actively involved in the development of the Armada, they were heard, their plans were implemented. But what happened after the death of Carlos III is probably just a unique combination of internal and external factors that brought Spain down in just a third of a century, while just at that time no one dealt specifically with the destruction of Spain.

              Eh, we need to write articles about Spain under Carlos III, and under Carlos IV, so that the failure that happened after the 1788 year is understood, and why Spain before this date and after are three big differences.
          2. karabass
            karabass 22 August 2019 20: 19
            +2
            But everywhere and always in history it turns out like this: where supreme power is limited - there is success, where power is absolute there always come to a broken trough.
            1. arturpraetor
              22 August 2019 20: 29
              +2
              Strictly speaking, in Spain the power was not absolute - a lot of restrictions, a significant element of self-government, in France, absolutism was much more developed. The 1808 year here is generally indicative - the kings were stolen, and the state continued to live and fight, even if it broke up into local juntas. But now, when the stars stand in a row, and the head of state gets a frenzied Afranesados ​​just at the time when Napoleon came to power in France, and this, among other things ... A grenade thrown into a cesspool is a very weak comparison.
          3. Undecim
            Undecim 22 August 2019 21: 19
            +3
            Do you think it is possible to maintain a fleet of hundreds of pennants with constantly cleaned bottoms? That on it is not that docks - there is not enough money
            Artem, in the days of sailing fleets, docks were not needed to clean the bottom. For this purpose, keeling was used - the inclination of the vessel for the purpose of inspection and repair of its underwater part. Sawing is done before the keel appears above the water. A type of keeling is krengovaniye - the inclination of the vessel without leaving the keel out of the water, used to clean the underwater part from fouling and for minor repairs to the hull lining.
            It looked something like this.

            In this photograph, Dumont-D'Urville's ships Astrolabe and Zealous are keeled during their second voyage around the world in 1838 around what is now Queensland.
            1. arturpraetor
              22 August 2019 21: 22
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              Artem, in the days of sailing fleets, docks were not needed to clean the bottom.

              I am aware, but keeving was fraught with damage to the hull structures, and they tried not to do it again. Of course, if there are not enough docks, and it’s urgently necessary to clean the bottom, then it’s possible, but you must admit that kragging is done so often as to keep the bottom clean all the time, in wartime it doesn’t work out - especially with the besieged squadron, which is practically everything time is at sea or in the state of first readiness to go to sea.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 22 August 2019 21: 33
                +3
                Often - a relative concept. If in the tropics - about once every half a year. In colder waters less often.
                1. arturpraetor
                  22 August 2019 21: 37
                  +3
                  The siege of Gibraltar, along with the blockade, lasted 4 years, while the main forces of the fleet were there at most for several months - at the time of the specifically discussed battle in the moonlight, the main forces of the fleet did not smell there, 9 (more precisely, 11) of Langara battleships were everything that was there from ocean ships. In such circumstances, it is difficult to find time for pitching / inclining, and yet ships with copper bottom plating will still be faster even in comparison with newly "cleaned" ships.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 22 August 2019 21: 47
                    +3
                    I agree, though there is one point. "Battle by Moonlight" - January - 1780 And the whole Royal Navy was sheathed with copper by the British in 1883.
                    By the way, Royal George, who participated in this battle, drowned in Gibraltar two years later when it was keeled.
                    1. arturpraetor
                      22 August 2019 22: 02
                      +2
                      Quote: Undecim
                      And the whole Royal Navy, the British sheathed with copper in 1883 year.

                      The British had enough of several sheathed with copper to catch up and tie the Spaniards in battle, and then collapse already with the rest of the forces. And I told everything very simplistically - in fact, there the battle from the moment of tying to the end lasted several days, taking into account all the maneuvering and chasing, the direct combat phase - EMNIP from 4 days to 2 nights, which is a lot.

                      By the way, there is one caveat smile It should not be ruled out that the "copper plating of the British" became a kind of excuse for the Spaniards on why they could not break contact and escape from a numerically superior enemy. In the reports, as I understand it, Langara did not say a word about copper sheathing, this is a later interpretation of why the British were faster. And if this is a far-fetched explanation, then the real reasons for the lag can be anything. For example, EMNIP, before the battle, the Langara squadron was badly battered by a storm, and due to damage, the ships could not deliver full speed. Ideally, we need to dig in more detail about the battle itself, but this is clearly not in the near future, here I still have to write about the Great Siege of Gibraltar - the Spaniards there, it turns out, were trying to invent an battleship!
  2. Undecim
    Undecim 22 August 2019 20: 03
    +4
    "... but he did not stay for a long time, having retired in 1799. The reasons for this are not entirely clear - on the one hand, Langara was already at a rather respectable age (63 years), had health problems that could just cause At the same time, as a naval sailor and patriot, he could not observe how the government of Godoy did with the Armada, and the resignation could be a sign of protest - and, if so, it was not a unique case. "
    It was unlikely to be a sign of protest. The fact is that in 1798, Manuel Godoy, the court intriguers dismissed himself and he returned to power in 1801.
    In addition, Langara was not retired, but was appointed a member of the Consejo de Estado - Spanish State Council. This is the highest advisory body advising the king on foreign policy issues.
    So the reason, perhaps, was still health.
    1. arturpraetor
      22 August 2019 20: 12
      +3
      Thank you for adjustments hi From what I saw on the Internet, I thought that Langara had completely retired from power. Well - this was not the worst option yet, with Masarreda (the hero of one of the following articles) they acted harder.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 22 August 2019 20: 22
        +4
        Oddly enough, from Wikipedia - the most detailed about Langar - Italian. Paradox.
        1. arturpraetor
          22 August 2019 20: 26
          +4
          That's where, where, but I didn’t look into Italian belay Searched in English, Spanish, Russian, plus wool different articles in Spanish. It will be necessary next time to look carefully ...

          Kstaaaati! If you want, let’s say, to be impressed - compare the Spanish and English Wikis for Masarred. In places there 10 of 10! In the sense of discrepancies between different versions)) It was at my own peril and risk to choose who wrote the most likely.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 22 August 2019 20: 38
            +2
            I'll try to see.
          2. Solo2503
            Solo2503 22 August 2019 21: 26
            +1
            But it’s interesting, against the background of your heroes and articles, to draw a parallel with our fleet, the Baltic in these years somehow doesn’t really shine (but the Swedes were sick of it!). Well, the Black Sea - war after war, victory after victory, but that's all thanks to Ushakov (he is not alone, but even so).
            1. arturpraetor
              22 August 2019 21: 53
              +2
              Quote: Solo2503
              And it’s interesting to draw a parallel with our fleet against the background of your heroes and articles

              As in the case of comparing any other fleets, it makes sense to conduct a detailed analysis of various articles, because one is better to declare and the other is worse at the average temperature in the hospital - Moveton. But, by and large, from that. what I know about our sailing fleet (and I know now less than about Spanish), then:
              - our ships are objectively worse. Projects were often used outdated, the quality of the construction was often quite inconsequential - but everything spoiled the quality of the materials, we could not harvest wood in the right quantities and the right quality. From the pictures of the rafting to Arkhangelsk and Nikolaev, Spanish and English shipbuilders would have their hair stood on end, including intimate places.
              - officer corps - it’s hard to say for sure. What exactly - our officers were not laymen. Maybe they were inferior to representatives of individual countries, but not so catastrophically. Of course, they did not carry out scientific work like the Spaniards - well, Russia did not possess such vast colonies, and in general almost did not send ships to the ocean. That's when he starts sending (Kruzenshtern-Lisyansky, and beyond), then our officers and how scientists will show themselves very well.
              - the rank and file - but here, perhaps, our level was quite high. I read a lot of unflattering things about the Swedish fleet and its combat effectiveness, the low combat capability of the Turkish fleet is legendary, but both of them had a good ship composition, and our ships were not very good - but we still won (I don’t take taking into account the times of Peter the Great - it has its own atmosphere). Consequently, the rank and file were trained in sufficient numbers and in sufficient quality to compensate for the shortcomings of our ships. I can't say with certainty, but somewhere in 1788, our sailors were perhaps better prepared in combat than the Spanish (but the Spanish were better as sailors because of the abundant ocean practice - it's not to stand in the "Marquis puddle") ...
              - artillery. I find it difficult to say who is better, who is better - our guns seemed to be very good, but the Spaniards had La Cavada's creations of excellent quality, many of them underwent repeated alterations, including under ersatz-rifled breech-loading (! ) 100-200 years after casting (!!!).

              Something like this. This is a very superficial and cursory comparison. It’s possible that I’m very mistaken, because mentally I’m all in Spain, and the Russian sailing fleet was never a priority for me - I have more steel and steam to my taste.
              1. Solo2503
                Solo2503 22 August 2019 23: 08
                +2
                "big mouse squeak from sweets!" (I mean your articles and comments. I am also more attracted by the age of iron and steam. And the mouse is from an avatar. It has a monument to laboratory mice in Novosibirsk. Well, my girls, 3 daughters, I often call them mice. They are still small - 15,7 and 5 years old (and I'm actually 54) Thank you!
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 23 August 2019 07: 07
                +1
                Quote: arturpraetor
                I have more steel and steam to my taste.

                Good morning, Artyom! So if steel and steam are to your liking, would you like to wave to the topic of the Blue Ribbon of the Atlantic? This is a gorgeous theme! In this * contest * not only the English participated, but also the Germans and the French.
                1. arturpraetor
                  23 August 2019 12: 20
                  +1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  So, if steel and steam are to your liking, would you mind sweeping the Atlantic Blue Ribbon?

                  No, I like those steel and steam that have guns smile And on this subject a lot of things are said in Russian. The maximum that from this I assume so far is that, if I take up the cycle of the Spanish-American war, consider in detail the condition of the fleets of Spain and the USA by the 1898 year, and the naval battles of the war between them.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 23 August 2019 12: 55
                    +1
                    Sorry! Well, if the Spanish-American war is sure about the cruiser * Maine * mention.
                    1. arturpraetor
                      23 August 2019 13: 05
                      +2
                      Of course, how not to touch on the conspiracy that was spread around "Maine" laughing
  3. Catfish
    Catfish 22 August 2019 21: 52
    +2
    Good evening, Artyom. hi
    I read it, as always, with interest, but somehow I already cease to be surprised that these Spanish guys, even though they are diligent, smart and brave, but every "damn it comes out lumpy". Before reading it, I guessed how their battle with Rodney's squadron would end. The names and surnames are resounding, there are a lot of merits (?), There are many ships, but there is no good. But I don't mean to argue. We talked last time and you explained a lot to me. Only all this is somehow sad. request
    There is a question about this situation.
    due to stormy weather, Poderoso soon sat on the rocks
    So he was removed from the stones, or so and left, leaving home? Yes, and who planted it on the stones?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 22 August 2019 22: 07
      +3
      Good evening. Do not remove it from the stones. He was so damaged by the storm that it made no sense. Having removed his crew, on the orders of Langar, they burned him.
      Source - Naufragios de la Armada Española. 1867 Escrito por don Cesáreo Fernandez Duro.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 22 August 2019 22: 17
        +1
        Victor, thanks! Well, at least they captured the English frigate, with copper plating, I hope. smile
    2. arturpraetor
      22 August 2019 22: 11
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      it’s just somehow sad.

      There is such a thing. But, as an AI specialist, I learned to see potential and opportunities where there were only shoals in real life. Therefore, where others see in the Spaniards only systematic losers, I see their good and bad features, and the specific reasons for certain defeats, and not the standard "losers, losers."
      Quote: Sea Cat
      So he was removed from the stones, or so and left, leaving home? Yes, and who planted it on the stones?

      As I understand it, he was put on stones in a storm, as they say, "from the heart." Langara tried to save the ship for some time, but the ebb and flow only continued to destroy the hull of the battleship, "pulling" it against the rocks, as a result of which it was decided to take everything valuable with him and burn the remaining hull. Langara was not put on trial for this - navigational losses in the era of sail were very great, and not always even skilled sailors could avoid such an emergency.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 22 August 2019 22: 20
        +2
        Yes, this is understandable, I just thought that they were lucky not to serve in the USSR Navy - in which they liked to look for scapegoats! And, which is characteristic, they always found. True, for the most part, not the one you need.
        1. arturpraetor
          22 August 2019 22: 21
          +2
          Well, this is generally our eternal problem, not only in the Navy, and not only in the USSR - they are not looking for the guilty, they are appointing the guilty request
          1. Oleg Kolsky 051
            Oleg Kolsky 051 23 August 2019 09: 46
            +1
            Good morning. Let me make a wish. It seems to me that a separate article is needed devoted exclusively to the technical side — the hull, sails, guns, and if with illustrations, it will be super. At least in general terms, as it is clear that with deepening these are several volumes. And how do you look at it?
            1. arturpraetor
              23 August 2019 12: 41
              +1
              Oh, this is definitely not any time soon, and perhaps never at all. I try to write articles so that an understanding of all these things is not necessary, mentioning only the most general and understandable elements, but I do not want to waste time on one more "accompanying material" that I do not really need now. After all, I'm going through the biographies of the characters now solely because I myself need to study them as much as possible, and there is no better way to do this than to write articles on them smile And since I am writing articles this way and that, I can publish it. But this is still a secondary job for me, and not the main one, and so I paid a lot of attention and time to it, despite the fact that I still have to write and write articles only about Armada officers - and there is also an army that I also need to cover request
              1. Oleg Kolsky 051
                Oleg Kolsky 051 23 August 2019 14: 01
                +1
                So I wrote that in general terms. To compare with the English and the franc and your readers, it became clear what the Spaniards are ahead of competitors.
                By the way, the diagonal connections of the case, which allowed to lengthen the case, most likely this is also a Spanish idea, not an English one.
                But thanks anyway. Although, as always, hunting is more, more.
                1. arturpraetor
                  23 August 2019 14: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
                  Although, as always, hunting is more, more.

                  This is just understandable. I also want to cover as much as possible. Just "more modest, you have to be more modest" laughing I mean, there’s not enough time at once. Moreover, the articles on real history for me, as I said, are related material. It’s useful, interesting, but still I have a different priority, especially since the further I get, the more I become a bore, and I try to paint more details - and this, again, is time, time, time ...