The reason for the collapse of the USSR. Engineer's opinion

355

Collectivism is good


I had a difficult relationship with the Komsomol. Moreover, I wasn’t close to a dissident, I always believed, and now I think that collectivism and subbotniks are good, they just strained the organization and the cliches and hymns pouring from the stands towards Khrushchev, whom the bulk of the Urals did not respect. It got to the point that in a technical school, at a group meeting, the future wife of a friend asked: maybe I'm against the Soviet regime?





I became a Komsomol member at the institute when they said that there was nothing for a non-Komsomol member to do at the physics and technology department. In the Komsomol district committee, the secretary who handed the ticket talked normally with me, agreeing that there were a lot of stupid things, including persecution of rock, Vysotsky. For example, a curator from organs went to the hostel and threatened with punishments for Vysotsky’s song “Fearing counterintelligence, avoiding secular life ...”

And already as a young engineer I was conditionally certified for doubts about the necessity of the Komsomol for people over 20 years old; thank goodness my boss let things go on the brakes.

In general, there was enough formalism and careerism in the Komsomol. And now for the fun part.

My leftist views on the need for a just society both remained and have remained, except that they have become more justified, but many leaders of the Komsomol and the CPSU, as it were softer to say about the chameleons from the Polypov clan, from the series "Shadows disappear at noon" ... And it’s very interesting argue with these baptized former ideological Komsomol communists. Purely supper in the pan.

About party workers


Growing up, seen enough of party workers. The party organizers of the workshops often had really decent communists, which was explained by direct communication with people and being in office usually for no more than a few years. As a rule, experienced and authoritative leaders from chiefs / senior masters of the plots were elected to the party organizers. Naturally, they wanted to go back to production, so the natural and optimal rotation was obtained.

From the science of management: the time spent in one position should not exceed 7 years, otherwise increasing professional deformation changes a person not for the better. The well-known "blurring of the eyes," when absurdity becomes habitual, is one of the worst manifestations of deformation. But the level of secretary of the party organization of an enterprise and higher is another. Often people went there, loving power and themselves in power, also often shoved there according to the principle: on you, God, that I am not worth it. Is a good engineer going to permanent party workers?

According to the order in the district committee of the CPSU, the masters of the production site “shoved” them, they did not like him for arrogance. He returned to the enterprise with an increase and with the acquired habit of pushing people foreheads. Sometimes good engineers / executives also left. A large factory manager, who, due to his integrity, did not suit the director, went to the city committee of the CPSU. And he returned to the enterprise just a good person - he will not do disgust, but the team will not lead him and is no longer a fighter.

The level of the district committee and higher was distinguished by cultivated declines in responsibility and criticism: the higher, the greater the decline. For example, urban successes were marked by the encouragement of the first secretary of the city committee and the chairman of the city executive committee, and omissions were hung up on the city executive committee, because the city committee did not have subordinate housing and communal services, construction departments, the police and other things. And according to criticism, they didn’t know at the factory who, what, and how in the district committee or city committee. If there was a representative of the city committee at party meetings, he usually sat silently and wrote down something. Most communists of the enterprise knew only the name of only the first secretary of the city committee - and that’s it! Who to ask, whom and for what to criticize? At production, two major failures or two major failure to fulfill promises - the head was dismissed, and the party organizer was reprimanded. On the scale of the plant, the directors were removed, but the first secretary of the party committee could have nothing to do with it, if he had previously overlaid with papers.

Communist and his immunity


Do you know that even a simple party card holder possessed some immunity as a communist - instead of tightening his responsibility? A good mechanic friend advised me to join the CPSU. The party card helped him to disown his criminal record - the party meeting of a large unit did not agree to be expelled from the ranks, and the district committee was forced to agree with this decision and he was only a witness in a serious injury court, it was impossible to judge the communist.

How it would be true to leave only ideology behind the party! But the elite of the party wrote the rules of the game and determined for themselves the maximum of rights and the minimum of responsibility, naturally crushing criticism towards them as much as possible. Indeed, Khrushchev did the worst for the country when he pushed the ban to the authorities to even look at the top of the CPSU. And the top began to feel like bars.

Control and criticism are the foundations of good governance. A system without negative feedback, which includes criticism and self-criticism, is either peddling (the largest example is Hitler Germany), or it stops. Similarly, with a system managed by non-specialists (without appropriate education, without experience working with small and large collectives, without satisfaction with the vast majority of the above collectives). In the Soviet Union, the science of management was quite developed, but moved to hell. It required periodic monitoring and immediate action, and the larger the deviation, the more stringent measures. She demanded the creation of a system of criticism as negative feedback. She demanded the selection of leading personnel for specific criteria. But on it the overwhelming part of the top of the CPSU had to be removed.

In general, the collapse of a great country was inevitable.
355 comments
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  1. +100
    16 August 2019 05: 29
    Put (+) for personal experience. On the whole, this topic has been beaten up, but it can be briefly answered that the collapse began with the extended privileges of the party nomenclature and lowered responsibility for the task entrusted.
    Folk humor:
    "It used to be: the communists go ahead, but now the communists come first."
    "It used to be: do as I do, and now do as I said."
    - this is a confirmation.
    hi
    1. +20
      16 August 2019 05: 36
      The collapse began with Khrushchev and continued under Gorbachev ..
      1. AUL
        +19
        16 August 2019 07: 05
        Quote: Bator
        The collapse began with Khrushchev and continued under Gorbachev ..

        You missed the "heyday of stagnation" Brezhnev's! The part-top was then rotting completely.
        1. +8
          16 August 2019 07: 43
          21 comment from the time of publication and only one savage1976 in 8-52 made a logical conclusion. Eh ... Sad ... Administration, cut me all the stars. A lonely old man in a trench in front of Abrams 1A4 does not need them.
          1. +6
            16 August 2019 08: 01
            The analogies are obvious, I did not think that this should be described in the commentary. Thank you for the article.
          2. 0
            16 August 2019 08: 55
            Quote: My address
            21 comments from the time of publication and only one savage1976 in 8-52 made a logical conclusion. Eh ... It's sad ...

            Yes, there is no special logic, no analysis, no conclusions.

            The matter is not in power, but in the system. That is to say, the system. Any government, even the most "popular", under capitalism will do about the same thing as the current one. Or do you think that if not 20 million, but 10 million go hungry, then this is the "dream of the peoples"?

            The headline is powerful. But the answer to the question is slurred ...
          3. 0
            16 August 2019 09: 06
            Quote: My address
            only one savage1976 in 8-52 made a logical conclusion

            smile Do not worry, the logic is moody!
          4. +7
            16 August 2019 12: 26
            Dear Alexander (My address)!
            Stalin wanted to reduce the controlling role of the CPSU, but did not succeed. After his death, the top party did not want to let go of such a powerful tool as complete control over the life of the country, which means over the life of every person. On the contrary! The party strengthened its control functions, gradually bringing them to a caricatured appearance. And since the filling of ideology has changed, moving from the fullest satisfaction of a person’s spiritual needs while satisfying materially to materially satisfying ones, which was first voiced in soft form by the CPSU Program of 1961, and then it was tightly enshrined in the 1977 Constitution, in which spiritual needs only mentioned in passing, it was understood in the ranks of the party members that under such actions of the party restoration of capitalism is possible. And although this was not spoken out loud, some party members liked it, and they, without publicizing the meaning of their actions, began to put the idea into practice. And many - without even realizing what they were doing, disciplinedly realized the completely wild redundancy of the control and overwhelming functions of the CPSU in bringing the Soviet person from the state of the creator to the state of a simple consumer of material goods. The excess of control by party members incompetent in production, which irritates ordinary workers, along with the rejection of the predominance of the spiritual over the material, began to rapidly form a loss of people's trust in socialism, which was one of the reasons for the destruction of the Union. But this was the goal of the corrupt party elite! So it was conceived!
            Sorry to be dry. But if you expand with examples ... The easiest way is to re-read "Monday starts on Saturday" by the Strugatskys. Everything is shown there in the form of harsh satire.
            And finally, through the efforts of the former CPSU, which took the form of the current government, we came to the statement of Fursenko that the school should raise the consumer. Is growing! Or do you need to put a question mark?
            The rejection of ideology did not happen. The ideology of the CPSU format, starting from the Khrushchev era, lives and thrives! And as for the control functions ... The necessary is achieved. They are now carried out by the stomach and other human organs. If something goes wrong, the current CPSU will tweak it.
          5. +3
            18 August 2019 23: 01
            Alexander, whenever this topic comes up, I recall an episode from Sergei Bondarchuk's film "Waterloo", 2 = th lifeguard kav. a regiment of Scottish grays goes on the attack - a very beautiful picture, I never stop admiring this scene, Napoleon watches the picture through a mono-eyepiece (pipe) and says the words - "the best cavalry in Europe under the worst command." More precisely, you cannot say about the collapse of the USSR.
        2. -16
          16 August 2019 09: 01
          Quote from AUL
          you skipped it

          Oh Alexander, it all started sooo much earlier !!! The principle "why should I work when I can snitch and take the vacant place" began to work immediately after the Great October Revolution!
          1. +25
            16 August 2019 09: 06
            That is, after the Great October Revolution, everyone knocked and no one worked? But did the superpower build itself, contrary to leadership?
            1. -13
              16 August 2019 09: 16
              Those who worked, they did not knock! The same Budyonny without breaking Mironov would become the first marshal of the USSR?
              Quote: Pissarro
              But did the superpower build itself, contrary to leadership?

              But doesn’t it seem to you that the superpower was somehow strange ... with a huge army, a repressive apparatus and an eternally hungry people? Moreover, even before the October Revolution, Russia was a superpower!
              1. +1
                17 August 2019 09: 21
                don't you think that the superpower was somehow strange ... with a huge army, a repressive apparatus

                Complex societies require a developed control system, for example, from the states, an almost totalitarian police system, plus voluntarily coercive methods of maintaining discipline in society. Perhaps it was necessary to study their experience.
                For example, in the states, since school, an individual must follow the rules, otherwise there is no career, that is, even from school, screenings occur.
              2. +3
                18 August 2019 16: 24
                Quote: Serg65
                But doesn’t it seem to you that the superpower was somehow strange ... with a huge army, a repressive apparatus and an eternally hungry people?

                You very accurately described the Russian Empire.
                1. 0
                  23 August 2019 21: 57
                  The repressive apparatus of the Russian Empire was quite modest, including in comparison with other major countries of that world.
                  1. 0
                    24 August 2019 09: 26
                    Quote: Sergej1972
                    The repressive apparatus of the Russian Empire was quite modest, including in comparison with other major countries of that world.

                    And how can one justify this fabulous thesis? Or blurted out, but there even grass does not grow? smile
                    1. 0
                      24 August 2019 14: 10
                      Read works on the history of political investigation in Russia. Offhand. Ruud, Stepanov. The fact that the number of employees of the Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, security departments, provincial and district (in practice inter-district) gendarme departments, the Gendarme Corps was comparatively small, was also recognized by Soviet historiography.
                      1. 0
                        25 August 2019 15: 24
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Read works on the history of political investigation in Russia. Offhand. Ruud, Stepanov. The fact that the number of employees of the Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, security departments, provincial and district (in practice inter-district) gendarme departments, the Gendarme Corps was comparatively small, was also recognized by Soviet historiography.

                        You basically decided not to consider the army?
            2. 0
              17 August 2019 17: 09
              Quote: Pissarro
              That is, after the Great October Revolution, everyone knocked and no one worked?

              Everyone worked. Even Lenin noted this: We planted the Communists for practical work with all their excellent qualities, but completely unsuitable for this work.
          2. -13
            16 August 2019 12: 08
            Quote: Serg65
            Oh Alexander, it all started much earlier !!! ....... after the Great October Revolution!

            That's for sure: it was then that the number of officials grew in ....TEN TIMES!
            Everything was, as the author wants, managed by managers, controlled by controllers of controllers, plus a huge army of Party Komsomol members freed from labor.

            Who will feed such a breakthrough?

            author - Control and criticism are the foundations of effective management.
            there were so many controllers that there was nowhere to spit, but there was no one to work

            The foundation of good governance isprofessionalism и interest all participants in the production, in a successful result. Then everything goes like clockwork
            1. +4
              18 August 2019 16: 50
              Quote: Olgovich
              Who will feed such a breakthrough?

              But now everything is different. Or not. sad
              Olgovich give a hint. You can blame everything on the grave komunyak legacy. Here's how to demolish all the monuments to Lenin, we will immediately panic. laughing
              1. -1
                19 August 2019 15: 24
                Introduce the strictest control over the production and accounting of products. Arrest and betray to the revolutionary court all who dare to harm the cause of the people. ”
                (V.I. Lenin. PSS, vol. 35, p. 66).
                In January 1920, Lenin wrote a letter to Tomsk about bureaucracy in trade unions:

                “I never doubted that there was still a lot of bureaucracy in our commissariats, in all.
                But that in trade unions there was no less bureaucracy, I did not expect.
                This is the greatest shame. I beg you to read all these documents in the Communist faction at the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions and to develop practical measures to combat bureaucracy, red tape, idleness, and armlessness ”
                (V.I. Lenin. PSS, vol. 51, p. 120).
                From a speech at the Ⅹ party congress,
                “That the internal danger is in a certain sense greater than the Denikin and Yudenich”
                (V.I. Lenin. PSS, vol. 43, p. 102).

                “If you look at our entire apparatus, at our entire management system, if you look at our unheard of bureaucracy, our unheard of fuss with all kinds of approvals, then from all this I am directly horrified. I have repeatedly come to the Chairman of the Service Station and the Council of People's Commissars and said: give me the resignation! You can't work like that! ”
                Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky

                I came to the incontrovertible conclusion that the main work was not in Moscow, but on the ground, that 2/3 of the responsible comrades and specialists from all the party (including the Central Committee), Soviet and trade union institutions needed to be transferred from Moscow to their places. And do not be afraid that the central institutions will fall apart. It is necessary to throw all efforts into factories, factories and into the countryside in order to really raise labor productivity, and not the work of feathers and stationery. Otherwise, we won’t get out. The best ideas and directions do not even reach here and hang in the air. So that the state [Russia] does not go bankrupt, it is necessary to solve the problem of state apparatus. The unstoppable bloating of the states, the monstrous bureaucratization of every cause — mountains of papers and hundreds of thousands of scribblers; captures of large buildings and premises; car epidemic; millions of frills. This is legal and devouring state property by this locust. In addition to this, an unprecedented, shameless bribery, embezzlement, negligence, flagrant mismanagement, characterizing our so-called "cost accounting", crimes that transfer state property into private pockets. If you look at our entire apparatus of power in Russia, at our entire management system, if you look at our unheard of bureaucracy, our unheard of fuss with all kinds of approvals, then from all this I am directly horrified. Watching through the eyes of your device is death for the leader.
                Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky

                Our system is such that we encourage science fiction. The workshop gives numbers, we remake them, they remake us at the State Planning Commission. With this system, it turns out that you can take as much as you like. We know in advance that the numbers are incorrect, what responsibility can be for them?
                We must fight this system no matter what. But I did not come up with any recipe. I am looking, comrades, and have come to very sad conclusions. We need to find other ways.
                Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
          3. +3
            18 August 2019 23: 06
            I noticed that on this site, as well as throughout the country, the lower the intelligence index, the larger the stars on uniform. Pattern - however. Site administration - think, of course, if there is anything.
            1. -2
              19 August 2019 07: 56
              Quote: Sergey K
              the lower the intelligence index, the larger the stars on uniform

              good Well, share your intelligence, comrade!
              We ask, we ask !!!!!
              1. -1
                19 August 2019 17: 24
                Yes, I’m happy to cut it off a little bit and put it in your skull box, you just pour the sawdust from there, well, a little bit. place to free (no joke for God's sake).
                1. 0
                  20 August 2019 08: 19
                  what Oh yes, what insults, in addition, if you cut the intellect, then how can you be offended !!!
      2. +24
        16 August 2019 07: 20
        Hegel said: the idea rules the world ... The idea of ​​communism, then socialism perfectly coped with the economic line for building a strong independent state until 1953, before the death of Stalin. After the death of the leader of the peoples, the struggle for power began, ending with the victory of such insignificance as Khrushchev, who needed a political justification to strengthen his own power. Struggling for power, Khrushchev at the 20th Congress criticized the Stalin personality cult. As a result, the destruction of the idea, the idea that was at the foundation of the state, supported, cemented the Union, the power represented by the party elite, and the party elite. The decomposition of the elite began, in the final chain of which was Gorbachev's rise to power, which ensured the final collapse of the state. As a result, the collapse and collapse of the USSR. Anglo-Saxons, exalting themselves, at all crossroads they blow that they destroyed the Union. Nothing of the kind ... The Union was torn apart from the inside by its own party elite. And the collapse began just with the crisis, the collapse of the idea of ​​communism, socialism. The peak of the collapse was universal laughter, jokes about the path to communism, socialism, fighters for communism ... The people themselves made fun of the once beautiful idea. The laughter of the people is the last nail in the lid of the tomb of communism, the USSR, and this laughter was precisely provided by the rotten party elite. With the laughter of the people, the 90th year was inevitable.
        For comparison. China has not abandoned the idea of ​​communism. He cleared the idea of ​​obsolete, old dogmas and is consistently gaining in its development. China is not just a state, but a state that preserves and develops the idea of ​​communism. It is the idea that unites the people, creates an integral structure of state administration, provides the foundation, protection of the state by its people in case of any external threats. There is no doubt that the exploits of our heroes in the Second World War will be repeated by the Chinese defending their country in the event of a war with the Anglo-Saxons.
        Another parallel. A cursory glance at non-systemic opposition as part of bulk, caspar, honk, sables, etc. any normal person causes laughter, that laugh, which shows the attitude of the people to the dolls dancing to the flute of Anglo-Saxons.
        The last parallel. The destruction of the idea of ​​the state always leads to the destruction of the state itself. Hence, the state cannot exist without ideology, without that guiding thread that keeps it from decay. Therefore, our enemies, the enemies of Russia, its people constantly rely on the fact that in Russia there should be no ideology, ideas of Russia, there should not be something that holds the Russian people together, allows it to exist as a monolithic force, a state foundation, protecting itself, its state, its Fatherland from internal and external enemies.

        "People-State-Fatherland" - this is the slogan of every Russian patriot. A strong state, a united people, a prosperous country for centuries, which cannot be broken by internal and external enemies.
        1. -4
          16 August 2019 09: 41
          Powerful theses!
          But ..
          Quote: The Truth
          After the death of the leader of the peoples, the struggle for power began,

          And not since 1924? And what was that in 1948? There has always been a struggle for power! And yes .... not yet burying Stalin, the "faithful Stalinists" fostered by Stalin himself began to squabble like spiders in a jar .... why?
          Quote: The Truth
          Elite Decomposition Begins

          The decomposition of the elite began under Lenin, when party and state leaders acquired housekeepers, governesses and gardeners ..... Sverdlov’s safe is a vivid example of this!
          Quote: The Truth
          China has not abandoned the idea of ​​communism

          Before gaining momentum in development, China knelt before the United States, and Damnsky and Vietnam became a payment for a bright future!
          Quote: The Truth
          There is no doubt that the exploits of our heroes in the Second World War will be repeated by the Chinese,

          They have the wrong mentality!
          Quote: The Truth
          "People-State-Fatherland"

          I completely agree with this!
          1. +4
            16 August 2019 11: 21
            The struggle for power has existed since the inception of wildlife, not only humans and the animal world, even in the plant world, this struggle is everywhere and does not depend on the political system, ideology and our thoughts. "The strongest survives," the primitive tribe entirely depended on its leader and his entourage.
        2. +4
          16 August 2019 13: 49
          "People-State-Fatherland" - this is the slogan of every Russian patriot. A strong state, a united people, a prosperous country for centuries, which cannot be broken by internal and external enemies.

          A reservation, just like Freud. When you started to "reveal" this slogan, you put the state in the first place.
          Rather, your slogan of patriots would be to write this: "State-Fatherland-People".
          The most interesting thing is that you wrote beautiful and correct words, but fundamentally wrong. IMHO. It would be more correct to write: State for the People (and not the people for the state). And with such a formulation of the question - the State becomes a synonym for the Fatherland, Motherland.
          And you are undoubtedly right that as long as “state ideology” in Russia is prohibited by the Constitution, we are vulnerable.
        3. 0
          17 August 2019 21: 20
          Quote: The Truth
          China has not abandoned the idea of ​​communism. He cleared the idea of ​​obsolete, old dogmas and is consistently gaining in its development.

          After China appointed an "immortal" chairman at the next congress, the beginning of the next decline of the Chinese empire can be counted from that moment. So all these gains in speed, this is only for what would then be in the abyss at maximum speed.
      3. +3
        16 August 2019 10: 51
        Quote: Bator
        and required the selection of guiding

        I agree, after the death of Stalin, they put on his boots .......... and drowned in them, the scale was far from that small. And small rats cannot control an empire of a global scale. Then it was time after time. We are now witnessing something similar in Ukraine, when farmers captured an industrialized country, the outcome is sad, self-government on a farm is not the same as managing a developed state.
      4. The comment was deleted.
        1. 0
          17 August 2019 20: 57
          Depending on what constitutes a crime, it has already been written overwritten many times, you cannot take the time and actions committed at that time. For example, about 50 years ago you would have been put to the wall for this statement and no one would have been surprised, and now you are clapping your tongue that nothing will come to your head, an alternative point of view.
        2. 0
          18 August 2019 23: 19
          I just wrote about such imbitsilov.
          1. +2
            18 August 2019 23: 25
            No matter how the Soviet government decays, what now "smells" on Venus cannot be hidden, despite its dense (a hundred times denser atmosphere) of sulfuric and hydrochloric acid vapors, odors will still be heard from the ground.
      5. +3
        16 August 2019 20: 45
        Quote: Bator
        The collapse began with Khrushchev

        Khrushchev repeated Nikolai's mistake2. He also freed members of the imperial family from criminal prosecution .. As a result, every industrialist sought to "present" any Romanov with shares of his enterprise in order to receive state money for sawing.
        Now there is a repeat of history in something, but I cannot formulate it, but there is something similar.
      6. -1
        19 August 2019 10: 23
        It’s hard to say where it started, probably from the time of Stalin
    2. -1
      16 August 2019 05: 54
      Can you tell us more about the "friend's future wife"? And then, somehow about the collapse of the USSR is already pretty fed up with the number of private opinions.winked
      Whoever takes off his hair does not yearn.
      1. +8
        16 August 2019 06: 39
        Opinions why the Soviet Union collapsed are many. I would venture to express one more thing.
        We were ruined by a critical perception of reality and a high level, in comparison with an ordinary western man in the street, of the intellectual development of the average citizen.
        Here is North America, the vast majority of the population hopelessly stupid and blindly believes everything that the media tells him.
        Zadornov made fun of it, and rightly made fun of it. But if you think about it, then their stupidity and limitation is a great benefit for the stability of the regime ..
        I will give a simple example.
        Almost four years ago, tens of thousands of “refugees” from Syria were brought to Canada. They were showered with such material goods that the lion's share of the population did not even dream of. Say, in the fall they were given certificates that can pay for winter clothes. As a result, the picture is clear - a young man who is not working anywhere hangs out in the street in a Canada Goose jacket for a thousand dollars, and at that time those whose taxes were paid for this jacket go to work in hundred-dollar jackets.
        Well, how is it in the Union?
        If only the people would be indignant, and the enemy “voices” would add oil to the fire. And here no one notices anything, and they do not pay attention to the privileges that it is unclear why visitors have.
        Go rock this society.
        But in the Union, on the contrary, everyone was smart, everyone was well-read, everyone saw everything, noticed everything and made conclusions.
        So it turns out, our smartness also destroyed us. If we were stupid, we wouldn’t have looked beyond our nose, instead of Dostoevsky we would have read comics, so the Soviet Union would have stood for another thousand years.
        1. +7
          16 August 2019 07: 15
          You are certainly right, but we will not forget that there are still wines of Kashpirovsky and Chumak, which poorly hypnotized and charged water to ordinary Soviet hard workers. If they charged it well, the USSR would not have collapsed.
        2. AUL
          +2
          16 August 2019 07: 17
          Quote: Comrade
          Well, how is it in the Union?
          If only the people would be indignant, and the enemy “voices” would add oil to the fire.

          Are you serious? Who would let him be indignant? After all, we did everything "at the request of the workers"! Well, sometimes, here and there, sometimes individual renegades in the kitchen in an undertone and with a glance could, of course, blurt out some disgusting, after listening to the voices of the enemy. But this was not typical for our people! laughing Now, I remember when, under Khrushchev, they began to slowly raise prices (at the request of the workers, of course), so the whole people unanimously issued full approval!
          1. +7
            16 August 2019 08: 34
            Quote from AUL
            Now, I remember when, under Khrushchev, they began to slowly raise prices (at the request of the workers, of course), so the whole people unanimously issued full approval!

            Yeah, the Novocherkassk workers were so "approved" that they had to shoot them with machine guns.
        3. +1
          16 August 2019 07: 38
          Here, a very good overview of the reasons, even from a historical point of view ...
        4. +6
          16 August 2019 08: 48
          I do not agree.
          There was a completely different thing.
          The changes begun by Gorbachev were perceived as the next stage of the revolution (I am not afraid of high style).
          Moreover, society saw ripening problems, primarily economic, then moral and ethical (but not social !!!).
          Unfortunately, it was a Gorbachev combine, not Deng Xiao Ping ....
          Glasnost turned into criticism of Bolshogr terror of the Stalinist regime.
          The Law on Cooperation gave an interesting result: 90% of cooperatives had a criminal past.
          Freedom turned into anarchy, to the delight of the emissaries of Uncle Samuel.
          The ship was not accelerated, but rocked ...
          And knocked over
          1. +1
            16 August 2019 09: 54
            Society saw more than just pressing problems. It saw that the system was completely rotten inside. Completely, and long before Gorbachev.
            And all because any society is a "food" pyramid. Successful at the top and less successful below. And no amount of chatter about equality can change anything.
            China has understood this, and is building capitalism while hiding behind a communist ideology, from which there is less and less left in the system. That is, they work, the truth is building capitalism.
            Our leaders of the USSR, understanding everything perfectly (no stupider than the Chinese), under the cover of this same ideology, simply plundered everything.
        5. +2
          16 August 2019 09: 22
          Quote: Comrade
          I would venture to express one more thing.
          We were ruined by a critical perception of reality and a high level, in comparison with an ordinary western man in the street, of the intellectual development of the average citizen.

          This is the point, I also think that the average Soviet person had a higher level of development in comparison with other countries. And of course, to some extent, this was reflected in the future ..
          Quote: Comrade
          So it turns out, our smartness also destroyed us. If we were stupid, we wouldn’t have looked beyond our nose, instead of Dostoevsky we would have read comics, so the Soviet Union would have stood for another thousand years.

          And here is another problem, we squandered our cleverness in everyday discussions and passivity. What is actually happening now. At some point, the party leadership became celestials, as ROSS 42 correctly noted, at the beginning of the article.
          "It used to be: the communists go ahead, but now the communists come first."
          "It used to be: do as I do, and now do as I said."
          - this is a confirmation.
          1. 0
            26 August 2019 08: 28
            ... Stalin shot his friend Yanukidze, a goldfish, because he dared to disobey him twice ... That was democracy and pluralism ..
        6. +2
          16 August 2019 09: 48
          As a result, the picture is clear - a young man who is not working anywhere hangs out in the street in a Canada Goose jacket for a thousand dollars, and at that time those whose taxes were paid for this jacket go to work in hundred-dollar jackets.
          Wow! Canadian Syrians managed to step into communism, bypassing socialism. From each according to his ability - to each according to his needs.
          1. -5
            16 August 2019 10: 40
            This was ensured by decaying capitalism, which, as many people know, is worthless compared to communism.
    3. +2
      16 August 2019 06: 10
      And I remembered another saying - "here are those hammers, here are those sickle, this is your working coat of arms, if you want to live, but if you want to strike, you will still get it ...))) wassat
      1. +1
        16 August 2019 07: 37
        Interesno, and what was -
        I had a difficult relationship with the Komsomol.

        And did it come to a state / crisis when, according to your "soul", there was an "archangel" from the GORKOM, OBKOM OF THE PARTY ???
        From my own experience, it was .... not comme il faut, at least, but it could end ............
      2. +15
        16 August 2019 08: 39
        Quote: Sayan
        if you want to live, but you want to, you’ll get it anyway ...)))

        Well, it’s not necessary to lie. It must be admitted that in the 70-80s the working people earned quite well, and they lived too, had money, there was a great demand for the so-called. "luxury goods", the industry did not have time to produce TVs of new brands, cars, it was not easy to get to the restaurant in the evening, all the places were occupied, where, basically, the hegemon class was drawn.
        But I wanted more: jeans, sheepskin coats, woolen suits, you know, tired, smoked sausages, cutlets in the working canteen seemed too bread, although lunch cost no more than 50 kopecks, but for more, until they earned, they had to work better and more, but did not want to, they thought that all the blessings would "fall from the sky", as in the Bible, they began to knock on the asphalt with helmets, demand, catch yourself, but it's too late, en, there is no "huge country" - They were taken away to the corners by traitors, shape-shifters, accompanied by shouts: "The Russians ate our bacon, rice, tangerines, etc." The people would be outraged, but for some reason everyone agreed with this and are now reaping the benefits, they are surprised that tariffs are high, and salaries and pensions are falling, the retirement age, again, has increased ... Putin, they say, is to blame, but Putin is here with than? Capitalism, gentlemen, was characterized by Marx and Engels back in the 19th century, read Capital at your leisure, everything is written there ...
        Therefore, there is no need to blame the "party organizers and secretaries and the party", they have nothing to do with it, but the PEOPLE, POPULATION, MASSES are to blame first of all, call it what you want, that is, we are with you and we have no one to blame, but ourselves, but to return all back, it will hardly work, and is it necessary?
        1. +2
          16 August 2019 09: 53
          Quote: bistrov.
          Well, you don’t have to lie

          Man, this ditty is not about the fact that you earned badly, but about the fact that you get the salary as all and why then get tired at work!
          This is just about your
          Quote: bistrov.
          had to work better and more
        2. -8
          16 August 2019 10: 02
          The luxury item in the province was then a motorcycle. Soviet IL.
          Not everyone had a refrigerator. The water in the apartment is generally fantastic. Only in the homes of party workers. Food - gray pasta, margarine, potatoes, pickles, and very rarely type of meat (if you are lucky to stand in line and buy on big holidays.)
          Casual clothes of simple hard workers - quilted jackets, tarpaulin boots. Massive everyday drunkenness. And a complete lack of rights and any justice.
          This is a province, that is, the majority of the then USSR.
          From the Muscovite’s point of view, this is not a province - a city for 500 people, but a real one, that is, townships for 000 inhabitants. villages.
          I myself lived in this.
          I tasted the Soviet reality in full.
          1. +9
            16 August 2019 10: 49
            I myself am not from the capitals, but I put on my quilted jacket only in practice in the construction vocational school. Mom raised one without a father, and then we did not eat only pasta, there was meat (I won’t lie from the belly). About the booze is also an exaggeration, but probably drank more than in Russia since 2012, but not like in 2005.
            1. -3
              16 August 2019 10: 51
              My dad was a simple truck driver.
              I had seen enough of this form of clothing in childhood. And on production relations, and the rest.
          2. +4
            16 August 2019 11: 11
            Quote: Mestny
            Food - gray pasta, margarine, potatoes, pickles, and very rarely type of meat (if you are lucky to stand in line and buy on big holidays.)

            Stop lying. How long to? Change the training manual. From 1980 to 2018, the Russians increased the amount of meat and fish in their diet - 70/89 kg and 17/22 kg, respectively, bread 112 \ 96 kg, vegetables 92 \ 104 kg.

            Read more at RBC:
            https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5d561af29a7947ec4cb134a9?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop
            1. -1
              16 August 2019 11: 14
              You are Russian?
              I am writing Russian to you in white and white - I myself lived this way in the 70s.
              What training manual? Which RBC sofa expert?
              I had this "training manual" on the table, and people like you wrote in the newspapers that everything is fine with us.
              1. +5
                16 August 2019 11: 24
                Look at the numbers. This is said by today's experts. And if you lived poorly, then do not generalize it to everyone. Talk only about yourself.
                I’ll say it easier - to speak for others (and even more so for everyone) - a bad habit, not everyone treats her with understanding.

                For example, I really don’t like it when someone I didn’t go for it speaks on my behalf.

                Speaking should be for yourself. So it’s more honest and ... safer laughing

                Is it clear now? wink
                - one of the comments on VO.
                1. +2
                  16 August 2019 11: 29
                  Well what is it.
                  What are you kidding me with a newspaper? They were in my toilet, because in the USSR there was no toilet paper available.
                  I repeat once again - I speak for myself. Exclusively for yourself. Especially for such Internet experts. What he personally saw for years around him.
                  The problem of the defenders of the USSR is that there are still many people who really lived then.
                  They won’t let you just lie, shaking newspapers.
                  Wait about 10 years. Better than 20. Then there will be no one left, and you can lie with impunity about the beautiful USSR.
                  1. +4
                    16 August 2019 11: 37
                    The comment I am discussing was not pronounced in the first person, but from many. And do not juggle. I repeat once again that I speak to you in the language of numbers. And you are answering me in the language of "Time will show". Therefore, I no longer have any desire to argue swami in the language of "sam du @ ak".
                    1. -3
                      16 August 2019 11: 44
                      From many? This is what? But what about "speaking only for yourself"?
                      I’m writing from myself.
                      I repeat once again - I myself lived at this time. I’m writing about this. What is not clear here?
                      Like it or not, I don't care. As it was, it was. I'm not going to please anyone here, and even more so to lie, so that it would not look like another tele-wash.
                      1. 0
                        16 August 2019 11: 53
                        Quote: Mestny
                        I’m writing from myself.
                        The luxury item in the province was then a motorcycle. Soviet IL.
                        Not everyone had a refrigerator. The water in the apartment is generally fantastic. Only in the homes of party workers. Food - gray pasta, margarine, potatoes, pickles, and very rarely type of meat (if you are lucky to stand in line and buy on big holidays.)
                        Casual clothes of simple hard workers - quilted jackets, tarpaulin boots. Massive everyday drunkenness. And a complete lack of rights and any justice.
                        Well, they would have written that I was an alcoholic. And from the following comment "We will never start the XNUMXst century until the latter with a Soviet attitude to life leave management." . Which of the modern leadership has a Soviet attitude to life? Names
                      2. -3
                        16 August 2019 12: 09
                        Well, come on.
                        If I’m so many years old, and I’m talking with people like you on the Internet, I’m probably not a drunk myself, and my parents weren’t.
                        And pay attention, I do it politely, unlike you. Well, upbringing, education, mental abilities help me with this. Have you heard about this?
                        I understand there is no desire to explain something to you after a cry about drunks. You still don’t understand anything. But for the rest I’ll tell you.
                        It’s not so much about who sits at the very top.
                        The fact is that at lower levels of government, to the municipalities or BSU, the leaders and employees of mostly still the Soviet school are sitting. Their attitude to any changes is usually extremely conservative. The attitude to personal responsibility, the ability to make decisions independently is purely Soviet - that is, complete irresponsibility and the search for any opportunities to do nothing until the authorities from above begin to directly press.
                        Yes, not at all. But the percentage of those capable of change is extremely small due to age and Soviet upbringing.
                        Keep in mind that all people over 50 have Soviet education and upbringing. Moreover, the late Soviet, even worse.
                      3. +1
                        16 August 2019 12: 44
                        Quote: Mestny
                        The fact is that at lower levels of government, to the municipalities or BSU, the leaders and employees of mostly still the Soviet school are sitting.

                        Putin, Medvedev is also from the Soviet school. And all of them, small and large, are united by belonging to the EP, well, not being the heiress of the Soviet school. According to you, so in power we have one shifter. And Poking is not tired?
                      4. -5
                        17 August 2019 13: 45
                        No, not tired. I did not come up with the Russian language. Poke a picture on the monitor screen - it smacks of schizophrenia.
                        And yes, both Putin and Medvedev - the Soviet school. that is why I write that it is necessary another 20 years before the real changes.
                  2. +5
                    16 August 2019 14: 35
                    Sorry to interfere with your quarrel. Without a desire to moan the USSR, I agree with Sergei Mestny. I also lived in a town with a population of 40. Father is an instructor of the RONO communist, mother is a teacher, I think it is clear, not alcoholics. There was little money, but they did not starve. However, there was nothing to buy with this money. There was sausage in stores, but exclusively liverwurst, sour cream did not differ much from milk, the appearance of the "Leningrad" chickens suggested that they were driven from Leningrad on foot. Pepsi and Fanta are a child's blue dream (but "Duchesse" is filled up). For this, every month my mother organized shopping tours by train to neighboring Belarus. Day shopping, and in the evening loaded like a mule, but proud of his usefulness, limp home. And about toilet paper it is said correctly. The first time I saw it on sale was in the early 90s, but still the same newspaper, fortunately there was a lot of it "Teacher", "Literaturka", "Komsomolskaya Pravda", "Pravda" was the best, the softest.
                  3. +1
                    17 August 2019 10: 17
                    My dad worked as a district doctor in the village, my mother is a kindergarten teacher. Three children, I am the eldest. Parents from 8 to 6 at work. I hate my Soviet childhood with 2 cows, 4 bulls, sheep, chickens, geese, which I fed and fed, cleaned after them - I. Parents did not work at the state farm (lousy intelligentsia), so in the summer they chopped a hectare of sugar beets for weeding. Whoa, say who? I did not get to the Komsomol because I went to school a year earlier - when my class went to the district committee to join, I was well-read, dreaming of commissars in dusty helmets, the boy was struck by one phrase of the secretary: - the child has no place in the Komsomol. I, and what about Pavka Korchagin, the Young Guards, are not the ideological Komsomol, but by age. Yes, for me. Then I realized that I would never grow up. Well, this Union, except for fraternity, was nothing good in it. But the Soviet people, as a formation, are sorry ... This story, I think, cannot be repeated. We disinterestedly, almost for the idea, rebuilt half the world. Now is the time of neocolonialism
                    1. +1
                      18 August 2019 16: 55
                      Quote: sala7111972
                      I hate my Soviet childhood.

                      Did your parents treat you badly? Sorry. But what does the Soviet childhood have to do with it?
                  4. +3
                    17 August 2019 18: 02
                    It was young then .. A town of 30,000-40,000 people, along with the Strategic Missile Forces base. I had no idea about hunger or no food at home. Parents retired every summer at sea (two weeks) through four time zones. Ordinary people, my father was a departing chief in a small transport enterprise, his mother was also a toolmaker of category 4 during his vacation. He depicted a savage on Lake Baikal about six times. And to Baikal with my average Russian pension, it sounds like a downhole fiction, so alas ..) There really was no paper for the ass, but there were a sea of ​​newspapers worth three-five copecks and newsprint, especially local ones did not differ much from the toilet paper. .
            2. 0
              16 August 2019 11: 55
              Quote: WIKI
              Read more at RBC:

              laughing Already funny!
              1. -1
                16 August 2019 11: 58
                Can I be more specific?
                1. -2
                  16 August 2019 12: 40
                  Can..
                  In order to understand life in the USSR, one had to live there, and not read the deliberately interested RBC! And it was not necessary to live in cities with millionaires!
                  1. +2
                    16 August 2019 12: 49
                    Quote: Serg65
                    In order to understand life in the USSR, one had to live there, and not read the deliberately interested RBC! And it was not necessary to live in cities with millionaires!
                    Useless is your theory. I am already 63 years old. And I lived in a town of 40 thousand inhabitants.
                  2. 0
                    23 August 2019 22: 18
                    In the USSR in 1985, 40 million people lived in million-plus cities. And in cities with a population from 500 thousand to a million about the same. Almost a third of the population. In the RSFSR, this share was higher than the Union average. Plus, the lifestyle and standard of living in the regional centers, even with a smaller number of residents, did not differ so much from millionaires, submillionaires and half millionaires. At least he was closer to them than to small towns and rural areas. Why should we not consider the level and lifestyle of these people?
          3. +7
            16 August 2019 11: 24
            Quote: Mestny
            I myself lived in this.

            You may have lived in such a village, but projecting it all over the country is, to put it mildly, lying and not blushing !!!

            Quote: Mestny
            Food - gray pasta, margarine, potatoes, pickles, and very rarely type of meat (if you are lucky to stand in line and buy on big holidays.) Casual clothes of simple hard workers - quilted jackets, tarpaulin boots. Massive everyday drunkenness.
            Such food and clothing is just for drunkards and alcoholics ... and whoever worked normally, and not like in the joke "... if my father did not drink, so that we would eat", it is quite normal to eat and dress. And in a village without meat and milk ... this is where it is ... not, of course, as the saying goes, probably the family has its black sheep, but to talk about mass character ... lying is not carrying bags ...
            1. -1
              16 August 2019 11: 31
              Did they call my parents drunkards and alcoholics now?
              Oh well.
              The same claim to you. Do not write for everyone. In the USSR, as I understand it, you did not live, all the information is only on the stories of others and on the Internet.
            2. -6
              16 August 2019 11: 59
              Quote: Dali
              Such food and clothing are just for drunkards and alcoholics.

              Did you live in the Union? And if you did, have you ever been to district towns 100 km away from major cities? And I hope you heard about "Green Sausage"?
              1. +11
                16 August 2019 13: 34
                Quote: Serg65
                And if you did, have you ever been to district towns 100 km away from major cities? And I hope you heard about "Green Sausage"?

                But of course, I also went for a walk to Moscow, and at the same time to buy sausages directly at VDNKh, which was sold in countless tents there. And something was not worried about this, riding in a reserved seat for more than 200 km. with a ticket price - 4 rubles 25 kopecks. And now crowds of people are leaving us for the same Moscow not for sausage, but for work with a ticket price of 800 rubles on the bus. Do you even know how many times the salary now differs in small cities and large ones, for the same job? No, you all remember about the "long, green" one. And in today's shortage of jobs, or free hospital beds, you do not care, it seems. For that there was a lot of toilet paper, at least wrap yourself. True, it only says that there are 50 meters in a roll, but in fact it usually turns out less, but nothing, we'll buy it. And if you are talking about green sausage - you mean color, then yes, this is a property of meat, it turns green a little without preservatives.
                1. +1
                  16 August 2019 15: 38
                  Guys, do not quarrel, still ahead!
                  I testify: in my village, cheap varieties of good toilet paper have already disappeared, and the price has gone up prohibitively for expensive ones. But there were rolls of gray paper for 10-12 rubles, apparently from recycled muculature - people take them! Ground coffee for the Turks "Prince Lebo", which I mix with instant coffee, has disappeared from sale. And expensive grades of ground - particles with a grain size. Prices for good soap every month rise by 5 rubles, or even by 10. There is no need to talk about detergents. Packs of expensive washing powder became tidy at the same price, loaves of black bread decreased in size with an increase in price and a decrease in quality, portions of ice cream decreased, I have not bought cheeses for a long time - everything is fake, but the price for them is growing - and fruit! If last year they were edible, this year - the tree, you put it, does not ripen! But the prices are astonishing compared to last year. Well, and so on - the forgotten era of scarcity is quietly and imperceptibly creeping in - get ready, the party is not asleep! And no matter what it is called now, the people are the same!
                  But it’s not clear what they are preparing us for. Then - to the collapse of the USSR. And now?
              2. +1
                19 August 2019 11: 12
                Quote: Serg65
                And if you lived, then have you ever been to district towns beyond 100 km from large cities?

                Sergey, I am wildly sorry, but do you think that something has improved in the small towns beyond 100 km from large cities with the departure of the USSR?
                You didn't have to live in the USSR to see empty ghost towns in your region, where 20 years ago life was in full swing, and even if people there were not dressed like Parisian dandies, and they did not eat turkey fillets, but the kids were running around, there were clean streets, factories, everything was somehow more or less adjusted. And now the wind and rain are finishing off the bricks of the collapsed five-story buildings. I am not exaggerating. Read about "Old Lip", Kizel, Ugleuralsky, Shumikhinsky, Shirokovsky, Yubileiny. They have not died yet, but the cities of Chusovoy and Chermoz are close to this - in 30 years they will not be as such. My aunt lived in Kizel all her life and was forced to sell her apartment in the late 90s for a pittance and start a new life by leaving her city forever, because everything is there ...
                1. 0
                  19 August 2019 15: 16
                  Greetings Alexey hi
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Do you think that in small towns beyond 100 km from large cities something has improved with the departure of the USSR?

                  Why would it improve? But the conversation is about the fact that the Soviet people did not need anything and lived like a godfather to the king and a matchmaker to a minister! Yes, there were a lot of good things during the Soviet Union, for example, I think that the best achievement was confidence in the future! But there were a lot of bad things, and for some reason this bad thing moves into a corner under the slogan ... "Look, what is being done now!" If we are going to talk about the Union, then let's talk, but if we are talking about modern reality, then let's talk about modern! By the way, we also made modern!
          4. +4
            16 August 2019 15: 38
            What are you talking about? I lived and live in Bashkiria in a suburban village with us, and at that time water and gas were in a private house. My father was an electrician in a quilted jacket, he didn’t go to kirzach. there was meat in the refrigerator as well as sausage. meat on the market took 3.50 rubles. sausage in the store an average of 2 rubles. sausage is not a couple of the present. so stop talking nonsense.
          5. -1
            17 August 2019 11: 28
            Mestny I think you're a notorious liar. Broadcast from the Pentagon?
            1. 0
              17 August 2019 13: 51
              Yeah, from the extension to the right of the central building. He came for sausage.
              So I understand that you also did not live in the USSR?
              1. -1
                17 August 2019 16: 23
                I came in vain. I would stay at home. In., With. Pigs.
          6. +1
            17 August 2019 15: 12
            I agree. In the 80s I was in Shanghai miners around the mines. This is something from civilization, only electricity in the houses. Kuzbass.
            1. 0
              17 August 2019 17: 07
              People, did you really forget that cities in the USSR were divided into categories according to the level of supply. And there was an additional coefficient to the salary, the so-called district, this is specifically so that people in remote areas of the country have higher salaries. I lived in a city of 250 thousand people - an average city, but sausage, meat and chickens were rare, only 3-50 meat were on the market (we already wrote about it above), but for example, the fish were heaped, especially squid, which is now an incredible delicacy . I had to travel on business trips, for example, in mining towns, where the supply category was higher than sausage and the hens were free (Karaganda), and in Prokopyevsk, a small town, even ham was on sale.
              PS And many people probably think that now water and gas are everywhere. You are mistaken, there are still houses without water and without bathrooms - "amenities" in the yard.
              1. 0
                23 August 2019 22: 27
                Is Prokopyevsk a small town? The population in the mid-80s in the region of 270 thousand. It is quite comparable with the population in such regional centers as Novogorod, Pskov, Kostroma, Magadan.
            2. 0
              23 August 2019 22: 27
              In the Donbass, everything was somewhat different.
          7. +3
            17 August 2019 22: 06
            Quote: Mestny
            The luxury item in the province was then a motorcycle. Soviet IL.

            In the stores "Technica" in our village, IZH-Jupiter and Cheset were constantly standing. Until now, the remnants of Czechoslovak equipment are moving along the country's road.
            Quote: Mestny
            Not everyone had a refrigerator.

            Before 2000, the Ob refrigerator, 65 years old, worked at home. I don’t remember anyone who wouldn’t have a refrigerator.
            Quote: Mestny
            The water in the apartment is generally fantastic. Only in the homes of party workers.
            Yes, there was no water in the house, but I did not have a particular annoyance in my private house.
            Quote: Mestny
            Food - gray pasta, margarine, potatoes, pickles, and very rarely type of meat (if you are lucky to stand in line and buy on big holidays.)

            Are you at this time in the camp or something?
            Quote: Mestny
            Casual clothes of simple hard workers - quilted jackets, tarpaulin boots. Massive everyday drunkenness. And a complete lack of rights and any justice.

            Well, for sure, this is a description of a camp ...
            Quote: Mestny
            This is a province, that is, the majority of the then USSR.
            From the Muscovite’s point of view, this is not a province - a city for 500 people, but a real one, that is, townships for 000 inhabitants. villages.
            I myself lived in this.

            So I lived in such a way ... Nobody bought meat in stores, because pigs and cows were kept at home. Goats were already kept when the collective farms collapsed. Own bird, eggs, respectively. Candy boxes, taken with a margin)))
            1. 0
              23 August 2019 22: 38
              Goats were sometimes kept in Soviet times. Someone liked it, someone believed that it is more useful for young children. For some, just such an amount of milk that was obtained from a goat was enough. I knew families where a cow and a goat were kept at the same time. However, I note that there was a special attitude towards sausage. I judge by my parents, grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles and aunts, other relatives. Most are villagers. There was plenty of their own meat (pork, chicken, duck, turkey, goose, rabbit), but they still bought the sausage. And they rejoiced when they managed to buy ("get") expensive (by the standards of that time) smoked sausage or ham. In general, meat and sausage were considered different products. But they loved the sausage. It was some kind of fetish, an element of a kind of prestige. Although many made their own homemade sausage. And when we went to the market, they definitely bought a delicious smoked ham. Although, again, it seemed like there was their own meat.)
          8. -1
            17 August 2019 22: 45
            Well, you and liar! EVERYONE could afford a refrigerator. And they were on sale. About water in general pearl. In the cities in the late 70s was absolutely everywhere. In villages and villages there.
          9. 0
            19 August 2019 06: 14
            Quote: Mestny
            Casual clothing for simple workers - quilted jacket, tarpaulin boots

            Maybe you are going to WORK in a suit and tie at a logging site, a construction site, a barnyard? It was necessary to study, then they would wear a "tie". What rights did you need? The right not to study subjects at school?
            By the way, in the 70s they earned up to 800 rubles from logging, how is that to you? Yes, and in the barnyard in the 80s, cattlemen knocked out up to 300. Those who wanted to work and earn money earned well and lived under the "Soviet reality".
            Now nothing "bothers" you? "Soviet reality" is already 30 years old, but the drunks on the benches in front of the entrances of the heap are like homeless people of all kinds. That now 30% of the people are out of work and lead an almost beggarly existence, sometimes unworthy of the name MAN.
            1. 0
              23 August 2019 22: 40
              At our state farm, harvesters, tractor drivers, milkmaids received well. But cattle were considered a low-paying category. And the attitude was towards them from other residents so-so.
              1. -1
                24 August 2019 15: 25
                Quote: Sergej1972
                At our state farm, harvesters, tractor drivers, milkmaids received well. But cattle were considered a low-paying category. And the attitude was towards them from other residents so-so.

                You are right, except for the attitude ... The attitude was according to what the person was. Do not forget to thump then on the collective farms not on detski. Our stories constantly happened, either the tractor drowned, then the combine harvester lost, then it knocked down poles, then it drove into the landing. But the collective farmers, those who did not plump, lived quite dignified, at home with a dozen pigs a couple of cows, fodder from the collective farm, cattle here were in high esteem, they always had feed. And there was a dachshund, a bag-bottle ... and even a little earlier 2 bag-bottles, but I was still a little)))) Money was there ... it’s another thing to buy nothing. On the car line, building materials are in short supply, and they didn’t build then right now ...
          10. +2
            21 August 2019 23: 01
            I'm not young either and still remember. You were unlucky. But generalization is not necessary. Izh was more expensive than the refrigerator, of which we kept two in our village. And color TV was not a rarity, but a bw rule. But that long-range and money did not bring, so this is a question for him. Do not justify your problems at the expense of the "system".
            I did not like a quilted jacket, a matter of taste. However, now the long-range “pilots” are not wearing the flight either, it’s not convenient to put a spare tire, if anything ...
          11. 0
            23 August 2019 22: 05
            Even in the then USSR, 60-80-ies., The majority of the population in the RSFSR, USSR, BSSR no longer lived in rural areas and small towns.
      3. -1
        16 August 2019 08: 42
        Another option (under Khrushchev):

        The new Soviet coat of arms -
        On the sides is corn
        In the middle - Nikita belly.
        Upstairs is a star
        Down below -...
    4. +7
      16 August 2019 07: 57
      I do not want to seem like a braggart, but I came up with the theory of the collapse of the country due to degradation of leadership at the age of 21 (1971) and did not tell anyone, even in a smoking room. You understand why. I made a mistake in one. He believed that the collapse would come in a hundred years. Regards, Retired Engineer.
      stop
      1. -5
        16 August 2019 10: 06
        Usually, everything begins to change with the final generational change. This is about 40 years old.
        The Stalinist cadres with their attitude to man as a working unit were finally gone - and everything began to be saturated with the usual attitude towards man, as everywhere, in general in nature.
        Now in Russia the same story. We will never begin the 10st century until the last with a Soviet attitude to life leave management. And this is another XNUMX years at least.
        1. +4
          16 August 2019 10: 09
          But the Soviet attitude to life is how?
          1. -4
            16 August 2019 10: 35
            This is based on the Soviet school, the Soviet family and the Soviet team.
            When you are a member of a team, detachment, brigade. When the foreman, the commander is responsible for everything, and you only follow his orders together with the team. and you yourself are not responsible for anything, nothing personally depends on you.
            When everything is for you, buccally, everything is decided by another person selected for this by the system. What you wear, what to read and listen to, where to go, what to say - that's it.
            But if you showed your leadership qualities (correctly showed) you have a way to the brigadiers, commanders, secretaries of the district committee, regional committee, members of the political bureau and more.
            There are not many of them, the selection is thorough, special qualities are required, units are able to advance upward in this selection system.
            And here is the result. Those who plundered upstairs sold the country of the USSR.
            1. +3
              16 August 2019 12: 30
              Well, and the oligarchs (units after the cap. selection) lifted her from her knees? laughing
            2. +1
              16 August 2019 14: 53
              Quote: Mestny
              When everything is for you, buccally, everything is decided by another person selected for this by the system. What you wear, what to read and listen to, where to go, what to say - that's it.
              But if you showed your leadership qualities (correctly showed) you have a way to the brigadiers, commanders, secretaries of the district committee, regional committee, members of the political bureau and more.
              There are not many of them, the selection is thorough, special qualities are required, units are able to advance upward in this selection system.

              And in the cap system, right? Enlighten how.
              1. -2
                17 August 2019 13: 59
                Why educate. Here you are, you can say anything, at least on this site.
                You can carry whatever you want, any game - and there will be nothing for it (unlike the USSR).
                You can not work, if you do not want, you can even stand on your head.
                You can protect yourself, your family and your property with weapons in hand.
                The main thing is not to disturb anyone, not to violate their rights, the same as yours.

                We really only can tryndet at all angles and not work.
            3. +1
              16 August 2019 16: 49
              Mestny, what are you saying?
              She dressed as she wanted, but, naturally, in accordance with the place of work. I bought foreign clothes from speculators. I read what I wanted, mainly the world classics - all the supposedly forbidden literature was sold by hand, or it could be taken from friends, but that literature did not arouse much interest, since I was already aware of everything it presented as a revelation , and knew much more - like any Soviet person, as they say, first-hand. At open party meetings, all of us, non-party people, letting the report and debate go deafeningly, quietly solved production issues, because what was spoken from the rostrum was blah-blah-blah, and everyone understood this. Attending such meetings was simply a show of respect for the leadership, but it was not necessary to attend. Purely party meetings were a formality and were used to resolve issues of production turnover. Hot news was learned from the "Voices" and caused strong opposition from the West. They hated dissidents because they understood their selfish, treacherous nature. Nobody built anyone.
              So what was it? But these are prolific speculators. It raised questions why, with all the power of the USSR economy, it was impossible to produce clothes similar to Western ones. Why clandestine industries flourish and all serious issues are solved by corruption, which was visible and heard. Why fed the West Germans and boosted the economy of Germany - yes, I didn’t make a slip! - endless purchases of large-diameter pipes, although it was elementary to build a plant for their production, which was done just now - Sechin had to, and made a fuss. Why feed and equip the entire African continent and the social camp. There were a lot of questions. And so that you are being watched and built, I don’t remember this. It was just stuffy, the development was sick, it went out. Now I understand the reasons. The current ones are a photocopy of them.
              1. +1
                16 August 2019 20: 05
                Meme "trumpet to you, Adenauer" 55 years old this year.
                just in Chelyabinsk pipe rolling mill 1200.
              2. -1
                17 August 2019 14: 03
                Quote: depressant
                She dressed as she wanted, but, naturally, in accordance with the place of work.

                In our province there was not enough money for speculators, and far from the capital.
                Quote: depressant
                Why clandestine industries flourish and all serious issues are decided by corruption, which was visible and heard. Why fed the West Germans and boosted the economy of Germany

                It is from these "why" that the picture of the collapse of the system is formed.
                I have a counter "why" -
                Quote: depressant
                At open party meetings, all of us, non-partisans, skipping a report and a debate by our ears, quietly resolved production issues, for what was delivered from the rostrum was blah blah blah, and everyone understood this.

                So why, if "everyone understood it," no one did anything or even tried? So everyone was happy with everything - and these empty meetings, and lies in the newspapers, and speculators. etc.
                1. -1
                  17 August 2019 23: 35
                  Mestny, I will answer.
                  I don’t know where it was, but it was like this: the presence of the party "guardianship" did not bother me. I perceived it as a well-established, meaningless tradition. And people around me are desks. organs perceived the same. So you need to cross the street to green? And so they went on. And on red - not, and did not switch. It was impossible to tell jokes about the secretaries general loudly - they told them in whispers. We were born into this, we took it for granted, like the air we breathed ...
                  I can assume that to one degree or another it was like that everywhere. Well, there were brave ones, they opened their mouths, something changed privately, but the whole system did not change.
                  Rushed to the arrival of Andropov. It rushed so that I don’t want to talk about it. Just the background: the letters in the mail were opened, and if any facts were given there, the letters were destroyed. The long-distance telephone at the post office did not work. Because no one here in Russia knew about our misfortune ...
                  And one day, KGB officers came to our house - at least, these two people dressed in civilian clothes introduced themselves. It turns out that my mother thought of writing to a republican organization! And those people began to ask her: who is behind the masses - no, not murders! - torture and executions of Russians? Like, you promised to tell. I froze, my eyes showed: in no case! Mother said nothing. But it wasn’t in vain. When it was over with the Union, and I was already in Russia, they came to the house, killed my father, and my mother was crippled in the future. But up to this point it was still necessary somehow ... no, not to survive, to survive. Under pain of death. Many people died then. Then Gorbachev and everything that accompanied him. It was you, in Russia, who could speak, but you put up with it. And we could no longer speak. We became walking corpses. It seems alive, but dead. I'm still dead. It did not work out in Russia, the situation does not have.
                  And only now I understand what happened to the country. And then - no. You don’t think about the chemical composition of the air you breathe? And only if there is an acute lack of oxygen, you begin to think about it.
                  In my opinion, it was like that.
                  At one time, under the leadership of Stalin, the CPSU played a decisive role in the formation of the Land of Soviets - mind you, Soviets! - and in due course should have been eliminated from the assumed functions of the governing state body. But that did not happen. Already by the behavior of Khrushchev it was clear that he identifies himself with the state. Soon, many members of the Politburo and the Central Committee of the CPSU began to think so. With all their actions, they seemed to say: the state is us!
                  Now let's turn to the role of the KGB in this whole story. We read carefully: the State Security Committee. Correlated? The degeneration of the higher party organs led to the gradual degeneration of the KGB controlled by it. From a country’s defender, the committee turned into a defender of a handful of people who declared themselves a country. The final merger of the KGB with the Politburo and the Central Committee of the CPSU took place at the moment when Andropov, his former head, became Secretary General. I believe this merger led to the creation of such a powerful force that no one could resist. And therefore, the plans of the higher party bodies to change the political system were so unobvious that their criminal intentions were carefully guarded by the KGB, who was sure that, working for the benefit of the members of the Politburo and the CPSU Central Committee, he was working for the country. And to make this possible, according to the testimony of many members of the forum (the topic has been discussed more than once), a purge of the committee was carried out under Andropov, as a result of which the honest left, they remained necessary.
                  This is one of the reasons for the indifference of people who are tired of the unbearable difficulties of being artificially created by the higher party organizers, forcing them to accept a change in the political system. People were confused! After all, the thought of betraying the country by its top leadership did not occur then. Only the outskirts understood that something was going wrong, but so what?
                  And dissidents, uprisings in the socialist countries ... I suspect they were as well-organized carnival procession as the current Navalny.
                  To distract us from the dangerous that was being prepared for us in the silence of classrooms. To understand nothing.
                  So I think: what are they distracting us with now. There is experience to reflect.
      2. +3
        16 August 2019 11: 29
        Quote: Vilensky
        the theory of the collapse of the country due to the degradation of leadership I came up with

        And how is today's degradation different from that?
    5. -1
      16 August 2019 08: 39
      "Collapse" began to form with the restriction of the role of delegates to congresses of Soviets (remember at least the II All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies, those who adopted the fateful decrees and formed the first government) - the Stalinist constitution of 1936, when Soviet power (although the word "Soviets "and left, but changed the essence) replaced by Western democracy. And the apparent predominance of "collapse" - the final seizure of power by the bureaucracy as a result of the summit coups of the late 50s and the removal of responsibility (and there was no one to answer to - the delegates of the councils were removed) are only consequences.
    6. -11
      16 August 2019 08: 58
      Quote: ROSS 42
      we can briefly answer that the collapse began with the extended privileges of the party nomenclature

      It is possible and even shorter, the makings of collapse laid even Lenin himself, creating a huge bureaucratic apparatus! This apparatus also ruined the USSR!
      1. +6
        16 August 2019 10: 13
        Do you know big states without a huge bureaucratic apparatus?
        Now the army of officials per capita is larger than in the Union.
        1. -3
          16 August 2019 10: 32
          Quote: Pissarro
          Do you know big states without a huge bureaucratic apparatus?

          laughing Familiar Russian Empire! But seriously, in the same Germany everything is much simpler and there is no need to bear a certificate about the availability of a certificate!
          Quote: Pissarro
          Now the army of officials per capita is larger than in the Union.

          In numbers, can I?
          Although I do not deny a huge army of officials now, but isn’t it about the USSR?
          1. +4
            16 August 2019 10: 41
            The figure is on the Internet:
            RI 62 people per 10000 inhabitants
            RSFSR 81 people per 10000 inhabitants
            RF 103 people per 10000 inhabitants
            In Germany, the USA, comparable 100-110 people
            In China 72
            In India 29

            There are no Wild Differences anywhere except resettled India. States are governed in principle equally
            1. -3
              16 August 2019 10: 44
              Quote: Pissarro
              States are governed in principle equally

              Ascribe to the RSFSR still officials of union significance, so this is one third of the number of union ones, then the full picture will be ...
              1. +1
                16 August 2019 10: 47
                No, in the USSR as a whole there are fewer 79 people on the 10000 than in the RSFSR
                1. -5
                  16 August 2019 10: 54
                  Quote: Pissarro
                  No, in the USSR as a whole there are fewer 79 people on the 10000 than in the RSFSR

                  Ahhh, but I think that something doesn’t fit, that number of state apparatus per capita is taken! The mistake is that the party apparatus cannot be separated about its influence on the Soviet people! A people without a mind, honor and conscience could not have lived a day! wink
                  1. +1
                    23 August 2019 22: 54
                    The apparatus, although it dominated, was several times smaller in number than the Soviet (state apparatus). In any district executive committee, there were many times more employees than workers of the district party committee. On the other hand, during the Soviet era, members of the boards of collective farms, directorates of factories, and state farms performed in many ways functions characteristic of government officials. They were not only engaged in production. Therefore, formally not entering either the party or the state apparatus, they actually were its supplement. From the turn of the 40-50s. In the countryside, real power in all spheres was possessed by the leadership of collective and state farms, and by no means the powerless, poorly funded village councils and their chairmen. The chairman of the collective farm, the director of the state farm on the UAZ traveled either on the Volga, sometimes even on the Izha-"pie", and the chairman of the village council often on a motorcycle with a sidecar.) This was also an indicator of real influence.
          2. 0
            16 August 2019 12: 04
            Quote: Serg65
            In numbers, can I?

            "In the first 5 years of the existence of the RSFSR, it jumped to 5,2 per 1000 inhabitants, and by Stalin's death - to 10,2. During the years of perestroika and the beginning of market reforms (1985-1994), it fell from 8,7 to 6,8 , and from 2000 to 2014 it again jumped from 7,9 to 15,4 people per 1000 inhabitants.By the end of 2016, there were 1,4 million only government officials in Russia (we are not talking about municipal authorities now) - this is 1,9 , XNUMX% of the workforce. " https://aif.ru/politics/russia/armiya_stolonachalnikov_zachem_rossii_stolko_chinovnikov
            1. -3
              16 August 2019 12: 36
              Quote: WIKI
              we are not talking about municipal authorities now

              You at RBC take an interest in the number of party functionaries per capita of Soviet citizens!
              1. +1
                16 August 2019 12: 55
                And can you not skip from one topic to another? I answered your question. He did not suit you with something? Wrong newspaper again?
                1. -1
                  16 August 2019 14: 09
                  Quote: WIKI
                  And can you not skip from one topic to another?

                  Why would I skip? To your numbers, I just suggested adding partakers and that's right! If you lived in the USSR, you would know perfectly well that a government official in the USSR without a party official is an empty place!
                  1. -1
                    16 August 2019 21: 10
                    Quote: Serg65
                    To your numbers, I just suggested adding partakers

                    So add it. I'm not a bloodhound to you. Google to help you.
            2. 0
              23 August 2019 22: 55
              Normal figure, comparable to similar figures of other major states of the world.
              1. 0
                24 August 2019 05: 15
                Where do you see this comparability?
      2. -4
        16 August 2019 10: 16
        This system, in principle, can work only with the help of the strongest apparatus of coercion and control with an uncompromising, extremely tough leader at the top of the pyramid.
        As soon as such a leader does not find himself a worthy successor, the system immediately begins to creep.
        "Let's drive humanity into happiness with an iron hand" - a familiar slogan?
        Only now humanity violently resists such happiness. Why? Yes, precisely because the system itself is not viable; in principle, it lacks the possibility of self-regulation.
        Because its basis is an absolutely artificial theory of the existence of a red horse in a vacuum.
        1. +4
          16 August 2019 11: 03
          Ah, they forced both the Great Patriotic War to win and restore the country ... well, yes. And it didn’t occur to you that with the IVS industry and artels were developed. A person could find work for every taste and could just find a job (which is not always possible with a rainbow horse (liberal capitalism)). That is, people just worked hard on black, but not for the idea, but for normal incentives such as granulation. Current nuno juggle about workdays on collective farms. The collective farmers also had normal, especially with the LIB (I remember trips to collective farms and help from the farm myself. Each collective farmer had a machine moving his hands). About artels not casually mentioned. After all, it was Khrushchev who crushed them and after that everything went downhill.
          1. -1
            16 August 2019 11: 21
            So Comrade Stalin was really a genius, no kidding. He perfectly understood that one could not do without the elements of capitalism. Or without religion for example.
            Well, he is so alone - the leader at the top of the pyramid. What kind of system is this, such that both the leader died and the system ends?
            About people, working in black for the idea - the authorities closely watched that the idea did not die out. That is, on the one hand, "babulence", on the other, a whip.
            This is known to be the best combination of incentives for burning ideas.
            In the classic slave system there is only a whip. And then an extra gingerbread appeared.
            Undoubtedly the progress of the XX century.
            1. +2
              16 August 2019 12: 35
              Well, one should not ascribe such ingenious things to capitalism - he crushes them in the most severe way, Patamusha real capitalism is MONOPOLY. This is its quintessence, the purest, that’s what capitalism and its highest form, imperialism, are. Lenin, after all. Smart was, however.
              1. -2
                17 August 2019 14: 11
                I read, but how. Otherwise, I would not argue here.
                The fact is that the theory is beautiful, but in reality it is capitalism that controls the process. All slender theories about his collapse do not work.
                According to them, capitalism should have long turned into one all-planetary over-corporation. But this does not happen.
                According to them, it turns out that the capitalist is ready for anything for profit and only profit. But spacecraft to distant planets were launched precisely under capitalism. But it should have been the other way around - under socialism.
                But this is in theory. The very one that North Korea is trying to live on, or Cuba recently lived.
                What is the result of this theory can be seen.
                1. +3
                  19 August 2019 02: 45
                  poorly read, it says that the highest form of capitalism is imperialism, and only then about its collapse. We are now witnessing not the collapse of capitalism, adjusted for those. progress? It was delayed only by the collapse of the USSR (not for economic reasons). If it had not been for the USSR, capitalism would have won on a planetary scale long ago and its end would have been the same planetary kirdyk. And so there are options. Humanity categorically does not want to slaughter for the glory of capitalist profit.
          2. -3
            16 August 2019 12: 05
            Quote: besik
            A man could find work for every taste and could just find a job

            If a person in the work had several marks about a job change, then they tried not to hire such a person looking for the best share!
            Quote: besik
            That is, people just worked hard on black, but not for the idea, but for normal incentives such as granulation.

            Well, yes, my mother injected art. a nurse for 80 p and to retire after receiving 100 p. The pension again worked hard for 5 years on 12 hours at 2 rates.
            Quote: besik
            I myself remember trips to collective farms and agricultural assistance. Every collective farmer who moved his hands had a car)

            The name and location of the collective farm / state farm can you name?
            1. +2
              16 August 2019 12: 24
              in PM please
            2. +6
              16 August 2019 12: 43
              Quote: Serg65
              If a person in the work had several marks about a job change, then they tried not to hire such a person looking for the best share!

              And escho he was called "the flyer" laughing ... but do you remember the people who worked under the USSR in one place for 25 years or more?
              Think of fear of becoming flyers? Bullshit! Worked so patamusha were CONDITIONS for this. Any sane person loves stability, during normal work and the state also encouraged this.
              I won’t discuss about your mother, but mine worked under the USSR as an engineer for 140-160 p / m. And I was familiar with my aunts working at a construction site for 200-250 p / m. All paths were open. It was necessary to earn, Pasha and you to pay. I don’t understand why cry about a small salary when there were a lot of opportunities? Now they are shrinking almost at 0.
              1. -1
                16 August 2019 14: 02
                Quote: besik
                but do you remember people who worked in the USSR in one place for 25 years or more?

                Of course I remember!
                Quote: besik
                All paths were open

                Of course I don’t even argue! But the whole Union in 240 million people to go to BAM, Chukotka, Salekhard or rush to the construction site agree not comme il faut!
                Quote: besik
                mine worked under the USSR as an engineer for 140-160 p / m

                I have an older brother, an engineer with 130 rubles + a janitor in the morning with 70 rubles, and I’m aging 240 rubles without a side job, but not all officers!
                Quote: besik
                I don’t understand why cry about a small s / n,

                Yes, no one cries, it's just that people call real salaries of an average citizen of the USSR, and not selective high salaries of a smaller number of people!
                Quote: besik
                Now they are gathering together almost in 0.

                Yes, why? The same story, if you want more money, work more or take a northern shift!
            3. +2
              16 August 2019 14: 04
              Quote: Serg65
              If a person in the work had several marks about a job change, then they tried not to hire such a person looking for the best share!

              That's right, and the posters were hanging "Flyer - the enemy of production!" What's wrong?
              1. 0
                16 August 2019 14: 06
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                What's wrong?

                Quote: besik
                A man could find work for every taste and could just find a job

                This is not so! Looking for a job to your taste was called a "flyer"!
                1. +2
                  16 August 2019 14: 16
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Looking for a job to your taste was called a "flyer"!

                  And for this "your own taste" you should have also been taught the subtleties of a specific production, and when energy is spent on you, handsome man, you suddenly decide that you do not like it there. And why is such a comrade needed? Maybe he will look for her "to taste" until retirement. These are, by the way, and shouted in a whisper in the kitchen about the "damned scoop" and listening to the BBC under the covers.
                  1. -4
                    16 August 2019 14: 21
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    Maybe he will look for it until retirement.

                    Yes, no, here some of the entire population of the USSR were offered to jerk to Chukotka for a long ruble! And yes, often came to the factory and work until retirement!
                    1. +3
                      16 August 2019 14: 49
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Yes, no, here some of the entire population of the USSR were offered to jerk to Chukotka for a long ruble!

                      My dad pulled to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, to catch a fish, only he blew all the salaries there in the cards, as a result he was removed from the queue for an apartment, and when he returned to the same enterprise, I had to wait a few more years until a new house was built, in the previous one the apartments are occupied. Dunce, in a word. Calmed down after that. And one brother constantly wandered somewhere in the taiga, the whole labor was crowded. Accepted, though reluctantly, probably did not ask.
                2. -1
                  16 August 2019 22: 07
                  Quote: Serg65
                  This is not so! Looking for a job to your taste was called a "flyer"!

                  There were enough of these in our squadron. And nothing. We worked for ourselves little by little. The authorities did not complain. laughing
          3. 0
            23 August 2019 23: 02
            The collective farmers began to have personal cars when they had already forgotten about workdays. They were completely canceled in the mid-60s, just under Brezhnev. And under Khrushchev, workdays were combined with a small guaranteed payment. In addition, it should be borne in mind that at the turn of the 50-60s. part of the collective farms were transformed into state farms. And in the northern regions of Kazakhstan and Tuva, for example, there were practically no collective farms. State farms did not initially have workdays, workers and employees of state farms paid monthly salaries.
            In general, the standard of living of collective farmers has changed for the better at times literally in a decade, from the mid-60s to the mid-70s. This is noticeable even when looking at albums with photos of your relatives.
      3. 0
        19 August 2019 17: 47
        In the USSR, the bureaucratic apparatus -600000 for 284 million people, now 2100000 for 146 million people and WHAT?
    7. +1
      16 August 2019 09: 15
      Indeed, the topic is quite battered .. It would be nice to read an article where the author would give a recipe on how to return the idea of ​​socialism, without revolutions and upheavals, what to leave from the glorious Soviet past, what to remove. I think such an analysis would be very relevant now.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      On the whole, this topic has been beaten up, but it can be briefly answered that the collapse began with the expanded privileges of the party nomenclature and lowered responsibility for the assigned work.
      Folk humor:
      "It used to be: the communists go ahead, but now the communists come first."
      "It used to be: do as I do, and now do as I said."
      - this is a confirmation.
    8. 0
      16 August 2019 09: 18
      The article is not about anything.
      There are causal relationships of any event.
      REASONS for the collapse? Roots. Which sprouted ..
      Bad Khrushchev. stagnant Brezhnev is already a consequence of those reasons. which struck the leadership of the country and the party.
      As the classic wrote, the petty-bourgeois element has penetrated and is striking the party ... The result is known - the former state parties became "new Russians."
      Secondly . without external support and support, more than one revolution did not seem to win.Moreover, the creeping counterrevolution. The leaderships of the United States and the West understood that a bunch of nuclear plans would not destroy the USSR and they would get an answer. in the leadership of the country of all links and people (among the people showing pictures of beautiful life in the West) or simply deceiving him. when creating in the country of the most economic power problems of various kinds
      Foreign and now go the same way. Betting on the internal collapse of Russia. Collapse is not in the interests of the peoples of Russia. And to solve their economic problems.
      One of the directions is the discrediting of the Russian President and putting in his place looking to the west and doing everything at their direction a dead end. very dangerous..
    9. 0
      16 August 2019 09: 54
      By the way, guess the riddle: how do those commissioners differ from these political leaders? Giving up? Those received in the first place - a bullet, Shura, and these - an apartment.

      And the surface soldiers say: "A ship without a deputy is like a village without a fool."
    10. +2
      16 August 2019 12: 07
      At production, two major failures or two major failure to fulfill promises - the head was dismissed, and the party organizer was reprimanded. On the scale of the plant, the directors were removed, but the first secretary of the party committee could have nothing to do with it, if he had previously overlaid with papers.

      Do you know that even a simple party card holder possessed some immunity as a communist - instead of tightening his responsibility? A good mechanic friend advised me to join the CPSU. The party card helped him to disown his criminal record - the party meeting of a large unit did not agree to be expelled from the ranks, and the district committee was forced to agree with this decision and he was only a witness in a serious injury court, it was impossible to judge the communist.


      Now one can only dream of such a thing, one cannot attract a director for anything, the owner decides, that is, his relative. Even with if condemned.

      An ordinary person, at present, will be imprisoned without even considering the arguments - in a special order. (hello to the critics of Stalin)

      And the reason is known to everyone and one: the PEOPLE of the USSR were so spoiled by the old communists that when they left, they did not even hit a finger to save the Soviet state. And you are here on the site, infantile mediocrity - the majority. But you will soon die out, then it will be possible to return to the idea of ​​a social system.
      1. +2
        17 August 2019 01: 04
        Civilian, don't say that. I will never believe that you are cruel and soulless. If that were the case, you would not be present here, but wasting time usefully for your own bank account.
        For example, on past analytical topics, I made suggestions how to gradually, without escalating revolutionary sentiments, switch to the Stalinist type of socialism, excluding from it the punitive and party components that are redundant in modern times:
        nationalization of the mining industry and enterprises of the first redistribution of raw materials with the possible leasing to private owners;
        creation of the most favorable legislative and tax conditions for small and medium-sized businesses, as in Putin's favorite Germany;
        introduction into the Constitution of the concept of "effective owner", etc.
        Similar proposals were made by other colleagues, and we are all from the older generation. And the younger ones were limited to criticism and even criticism of the existing order of things, not being able to trace, therefore, determine its origins. And even more so, without suggesting ways to solve the problem, simply ignoring what we are proposing. Because our decisions require serious economic and political justification and enormous patience in the process of conveying them to power ears, consolidating large groups of advanced people, etc. Here, the young would catch our thoughts, because the elders no longer have the strength! But it’s boring and boring, it’s hard, it requires hellish patience and perseverance. It’s much easier to go to a rally, yell, run into, grab a bat with a baton on the head of a riot police, get into a jail, pay a fine and, for the reasons mentioned above, become proud of yourself until the time you enter a state of mental maturity ...
        Moreover, the only way the young people see is the revolution, which inevitably involves a bond with Navalny and Co. That is, with those who live and spit out these young, and then they will be chewed and spit out by themselves - puppeteers who emerged from the shadows in a country that will be peddling. But the young do not hear the voice of reason, they hear the voice of adrenaline.
    11. 0
      19 August 2019 15: 51
      Quote: ROSS 42
      the collapse began with the extended privileges of the party nomenclature and lowered responsibility for the task entrusted.

      can be called a collapse, but can the formation of a new class of exploiters / feudal lords?)
    12. 0
      20 August 2019 15: 12
      Quote: ROSS 42
      that the collapse began with the extended privileges of the party nomenclature and lowered responsibility for the task entrusted.

      The fact that Stalin began at the XIX Congress (but unfortunately did not manage to put it into practice) left the ideological work to the party organs, and transferred the power to the Soviet organs. Those bodies that did the work and were really responsible for it. Khrushchev poisoned him, returning all privileges and power to the party. All this is in the materials of the XIX Congress. The Trotskyists wanted and brought the matter begun by Bronstein to transfer the property of the Russian people into the hands of international oligarchs.
      1. 0
        23 August 2019 23: 13
        But I didn’t find this in the materials of the 19th congress, except for the ritual phrases of Malenkov, who made the main report, and Shvernik, the then Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. The latter, by the way, occupied formally the highest post in the USSR, but until 1952 he was only a candidate member of the Politburo of the Central Committee. And only in 1952, after the 19th Congress, became a member of the Presidium of the Central Committee, the organ that replaced the Politburo and the Organizing Bureau, bloated and unviable.
        You, rather, Mukhin read, which many of the intentions attributed to Stalin.
        And I rather believe Ovechkin's "District weekdays", published in "Pravda" and which show the total control of the district party committees over the entire life of the collective farm village. Some nonsense - by the decision of the district committees, the party of prosecutors and MGB workers were sent to work as collective farm chairmen. Didn't the prosecutor's office and the MGB need professionals? Or were they such professionals who today command the collective farm, and tomorrow defend social law?
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    2. -3
      16 August 2019 10: 46
      Who prevented such a wonderful country from producing jeans and Pepsi? Is it technically more complicated than rocket launch?
      Why was it necessary instead to produce ugly samples of clothes that hung in stores for years?
      And this is such an attitude of the leadership of the USSR towards the citizens of their country. Citizens reacted.
      1. +1
        16 August 2019 12: 36
        As for consumer goods, I agree.
        I think that we still don’t know how to make normal toothpaste ...
        But here ariHmetika is simple.
        In military spending, we could not keep up with the adversary.
        And the budgets were incomparable.
        Therefore, after spending on the military-industrial complex, a lot of things remained for the West, and for us - a gulkin nose ...
      2. +1
        16 August 2019 12: 47
        Patamush rocket science-dual-use. But Pepsi and no jeans. Because money was not printed, but stupidly earned; there wasn’t enough for everything. And Pepsi incidentally produced. I myself remember in Tuapse for 45 kopecks. mom bought me. A little expensive of course, but it was. With an example, a failure. hi
        1. -4
          17 August 2019 14: 18
          Then the question is - how did the damned rotting capitalists suffice for Pepsi and jeans and rockets with ships? After all, this economic system was not right, but the right one was with us. But for some reason we had the opposite.
          "Maybe something to fix in the conservatory?"
          Here, they corrected, though slantly, as is customary with us.
          1. +2
            19 August 2019 02: 52
            Well, you compared. Half the world worked for the USA and Europe. And even then, in the USA there was no such distortion of the economy, and therefore they had enough money for everything. They didn’t fix it in the economy, but they killed it to hell
      3. +6
        16 August 2019 15: 03
        Quote: Mestny
        Why was it necessary instead to produce ugly samples of clothes that hung in stores for years?
        And this is such an attitude of the leadership of the USSR towards the citizens of their country. Citizens reacted.

        In order for the citizens of the USSR to desire the very thing that the party nomenclature wanted — capitalism. You are aware that Khrushchev destroyed hundreds of thousands of artels, which would provide citizens with the best examples of clothing.
        1. +2
          17 August 2019 12: 29
          I can not note:
          true remark, McAr, clearly and aphoristically, explains everything, therefore is worthy of citation.
        2. -5
          17 August 2019 14: 23
          Neither artels, nor after them - our citizens have never been provided with the best samples in sufficient quantities.
          And what happens - he put on decent trousers, and so he immediately desired capitalism?
          That is, under socialism it is necessary to dress in whatever horrible?
          This may be and would be understandable, but only in the minds of an invented "Soviet man" who does not eat, drink, don’t dress, he doesn’t need a house, but only:
          "We don't need the sun, the party warms us up,
          We don’t need bread - come on!

          Well, excuse me, people are made of the same material as 2 million years ago. The Communists were not able to grow a new person, the test tube was not found, and genetics were branded.
        3. 0
          23 August 2019 23: 24
          It is not necessary to exaggerate the share of promartels in the industrial production of the USSR. Even when they existed, the problem of providing the population with high-quality clothes and shoes was still not resolved. By the way, state enterprises of light and textile industries, even at the peak of the artels' activities, still produced several times more products.
          1. -1
            24 August 2019 04: 12
            Quote: Sergej1972
            It is not necessary to exaggerate the share of promartels in the industrial production of the USSR. Even when they existed, the problem of providing the population with high-quality clothes and shoes was still not resolved. By the way, state enterprises of light and textile industries, even at the peak of the artels' activities, still produced several times more products.

            1. No one exaggerates. However, for example, Christmas-tree decorations of that artel production and of the state-run one, cannot even be compared.

            2. It's not about more, but about better. Faberge eggs do not happen much.

            3. Finally, the first post-war TV was released not at a state-owned enterprise, but with an artel.
      4. 0
        23 August 2019 23: 21
        Under Malenkov, in 1953-1954 they tried to produce consumer goods, the light and food industries, and to pay priority attention to the development of agriculture. But then the point of view of Khrushchev prevailed, which was supported by such an ardent Stalinist as Molotov about the priority development of production of group A (production of means of production) over group B (production of means of consumption). It was believed that heavy industry and especially engineering should develop at a faster pace. After all, there were social countries in which there were no special problems with food supply, with the provision of people with clothes and shoes. Czechoslovakia, the German Democratic Republic, Kadarov’s Hungary, Titov’s Yugoslavia and, oddly enough, Romania from the mid-60s and somewhere until the mid-70s, during the early Ceausescu.
  3. +17
    16 August 2019 05: 39
    Alexander hi -the reason for the collapse of any country is mediocrity or mediocrity in power! This is when the property suddenly gets POWER !!! This led to the collapse of the USSR, when the talker birds came into power, with their hands growing from the fifth point of the body.
    1. +7
      16 August 2019 08: 01
      Quote: Thrifty
      Alexander hi -the reason for the collapse of any country is mediocrity or mediocrity in power! This is when the property suddenly gets POWER !!! This led to the collapse of the USSR, when the talker birds came into power, with their hands growing from the fifth point of the body.

      Take the next step in reasoning and you will understand why this happened. The reason was the irremovability of power. Gorbachev was at that time the youngest and most active member of the Politburo. The rest were just decrepit ruins. What kind of purity of the ranks of the CPSU can be said when the Party Control Committee was led by Arvid Yanovich Pelshe, who in 1980 was already 81 years old. People who did a lot of good for their country during their lives, by 1980, for purely biological reasons, were not able to lead the country, but remained the authorities until the last day of their lives. Look at the composition of the Politburo at the beginning of 1980. Really great people, but almost all of them left due to natural reasons in the first half of the 80s:
      https://fb.ru/article/315405/sostav-politbyuro-tsk-kpss-pri-brejneve-spisok
      1. +4
        16 August 2019 08: 54
        But do not ..
        These old men had a clear mind and an 14-hour work day.
        About irremovability I agree.
        Today, the topic is much more relevant ...
        1. 0
          16 August 2019 09: 56
          Quote: U-58
          These old men had a clear mind and an 14-hour work day.

          And what manifested the clear mind of these old men?
        2. -1
          23 August 2019 23: 25
          For old people in the Politburo in the second half of the 70s. a sparing work schedule was officially set.
      2. 0
        23 August 2019 23: 31
        Although from the top management were withdrawn and transferred to lower-level work in the 70s. relatively young workers such as Shelepin, Katushev, Ryabov. On the other hand, in the 70s. Aliev, Romanov, Shevardnadze, Masherov (who died in a car accident), Kulakov (fellow countryman Gorbachev, who died suddenly) were not such old people who were part of the top leadership.
    2. +3
      16 August 2019 10: 30
      Do not blame God. .. He has nothing to do with it .... Mediocrity in power and administration at all levels is again a consequence and not a cause And simplification of the problem

      "" cadres decide everything. "
      This is now the main thing.

      Can we say that our people understood and fully realized the great significance of this new slogan? I would not say that.
      Otherwise, we would not have had that ugly relationship with people, staff, and employees, which we often observe in our practice.
      The slogan "cadres decides everything" requires our leaders to show the most caring attitude to our employees, to "small" and "big", in whatever area they work, to nurture them with care, help them when they need support, encourage when they show their first successes, they were pushed forward, etc.

      But meanwhile, in fact, in a whole series of cases we have facts of a soullessly bureaucratic and directly ugly attitude towards workers.
      This, in fact, explains that instead of studying people and only after studying to put them on posts, they are often thrown by people like pawns. We have learned to appreciate cars and report how much technology we have in factories and plants. But I do not know of a single case where they would report with the same willingness how many people we raised in such and such a period and how we helped people to grow and become tempered in their work. How can this be explained? This is explained by the fact that we have not yet learned to value people, value workers, value personnel .. "(from the speech of IV Stalin in 1935)
  4. +2
    16 August 2019 05: 53
    When worthlessness gains power and can hold onto that power, this is evidence that the system is worthless, in this case the Soviet system.
    Quote: Thrifty
    Alexander hi -the reason for the collapse of any country is mediocrity or mediocrity in power! This is when the property suddenly gets POWER !!! This led to the collapse of the USSR, when the talker birds came into power, with their hands growing from the fifth point of the body.
    1. 0
      16 August 2019 06: 51
      Quote: passerby
      When worthlessness gains power and can hold onto that power, this is evidence that the system is worthless, in this case the Soviet system.


      But for example, when an outstanding athlete in fighting without rules gets hit in the back of the head with a brick - it means "useless is the system by which he trained"?
      1. +1
        16 August 2019 10: 33
        Brick on the back of the head can not testify to anything, even the coming to power of “worthlessness” does not testify to anything, but sitting “worthless” at the helm of the state for several years, during which this same “worthlessness” destroys the state, which is called upon to lead just indicates the worthlessness of the system, in this case the Soviet system.
        Quote: Minato2020
        Quote: passerby
        When worthlessness gains power and can hold onto that power, this is evidence that the system is worthless, in this case the Soviet system.


        But for example, when an outstanding athlete in fighting without rules gets hit in the back of the head with a brick - it means "useless is the system by which he trained"?
      2. +2
        17 August 2019 09: 39
        Quote: Minato2020
        But, for example, when an outstanding athlete in fighting without rules gets hit in the back of the head with a brick - does it mean that the system by which he trained is useless?

        as a single case not. just out of luck.
        but when all the "outstanding athletes in fights" get a brick on the head over and over again, it means that training needs to be changed.
        change the system that is.
        1. -1
          22 August 2019 18: 35
          Quote: Maki Avellevich
          Quote: Minato2020
          But, for example, when an outstanding athlete in fighting without rules gets hit in the back of the head with a brick - does it mean that the system by which he trained is useless?

          As a single case, no. just out of luck.
          But when all the "outstanding athletes in fights" get a brick on the head over and over again, it means that training needs to be changed. Change the system that is.


          It is necessary to change the place of residence and training of the aforementioned athletes or to provide valuable athletes with personal protection.
    2. 0
      16 August 2019 08: 02
      the system is useless, in this case, the Soviet system.

      Yeah, it's not my fault. He came to me.
      lol
    3. +2
      16 August 2019 10: 50
      random passerby (Igor) Today, 05:53

      When the worthless gains power and can ... ""

      Can't All Be Royal

      Here the task of the state of upbringing and education of. Who will come to power structures
      At the entrance to a university in South Africa, the following message hangs.

      “The destruction of any nation does not require the use of atomic bombs or the use of long-range missiles. It only requires a decrease in the quality of education and the resolution of student cheating on exams. ”
      Patients die at the hands of such doctors.
      Buildings collapse at the hands of such engineers.
      Money is lost at the hands of such economists and accountants.
      Humanity is dying at the hands of such religious scholars.
      Justice is lost at the hands of such lawyers and judges ...
      Management is lost in the hands of lawmakers.
      “The collapse of education is the collapse of a nation.”
      But. Education is closely related to EDUCATION, which should go slightly ahead of education .. but. be closely connected with it.
      The environment forms a personality. Its morality and morals
  5. +6
    16 August 2019 05: 58
    Perhaps, ideologically, Stalin did not have time to separate the party from state administration, and the corn-mailer, on the contrary, did a lot of this meanest non-human being - actually the party’s erosion, and the future collapse, or rather a larger percentage of the probability of the collapse, was laid down by this creature ...
    And not only in the degradation and emasculation of ideology into chatter and slogans, but also in the conscious destruction of the Stalinist economy, with leadership directly collectively dependent on the work of their subordinates, with artels and other elements of private property ...
    and its replacement is not very agile, known to all of us as socialist.
    In creating the current leadership irresponsibility formula:
    I'm the boss you, you're the boss I'm ...
    And this is, if you still don’t remember what kind of blow the corn-maid did with his deeds in his attempts to denigrate Stalin throughout the socialist movement in the world ...
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 06: 43
      Quote: Ehanatone
      and corn on the contrary

      So Ukrainian is ..... winked
      1. AUL
        +1
        16 August 2019 07: 23
        Nope! Born in the Kursk region, the village of Kalinovka. Then there was the collective farm "Khrushchev's Motherland". Communism was created in a single collective farm.
      2. +2
        16 August 2019 08: 55
        Russian But really loved everything Ukrainian ..
    2. 0
      23 August 2019 23: 33
      In the days of Stalin, it was always emphasized that promartels had nothing to do with private property and entrepreneurship. That they are a kind of collective-farm cooperative property.
  6. +4
    16 August 2019 06: 05
    "The devastation is not in the closets, but in the heads" is a classic. the wrong people and at the wrong time, the result is the collapse of the country. The collapse of the country was deliberate about which they actually did not hesitate to talk in the 90s. Economically, there were no grounds, the country lived and actually withstood thanks to the strength laid down under the Father of the Nations.
    People broke and destroyed their amusing worthless ambitions. Actually, they did not understand what was in their hands.
    But according to our statistics on meat consumption compared to the 90th, we came out only in the 10th, about 70 kg per year ... and no one shouts that they have been starving for decades.
  7. +12
    16 August 2019 06: 15
    For me, the standard of admission to the Communist Party of the USSR is the period of the Second World War, when people in statements leaving for battle wrote "if I die, please consider me a communist." And very often they were taken posthumously. In addition, somewhere I read such an adequate phrase "self-criticism is the first trait of a communist." Regarding the article and the reasons for the collapse of the USSR, an analysis of the distribution of the country's resources in the 80s indicated that the union republics (especially Transcaucasia, Central Asia) lived much better than the RSFSR, for example, in Georgia, the toast "to the Russian muzhik" was popular - so far it works well we live, Tashkent was generally oversaturated with consumer goods from the countries of Eastern Europe, apparently the leadership of the USSR, trying to delay the parade of sovereignty, heavily subsidized the allied USSR, there is such an opinion about the collapse of the USSR author A. Prokhanov
    1. -2
      16 August 2019 08: 04
      "if I die, please consider me a communist"

      And if not, then no. The knowledge level of that period is below the plinth.
      soldier
      1. +2
        16 August 2019 09: 03
        Issue your version above the skirting board
    2. -1
      16 August 2019 10: 58
      I myself am from Tashkent and now live in Tashkent, and in those years I lived there. Something I do not remember this. Fake the father!
      1. +2
        17 August 2019 08: 18
        So you did not live in Russia at that time. How will you compare?
    3. -1
      23 August 2019 23: 37
      According to eyewitnesses, most rural Tajiks had a very low standard of living. So there is more than one thing. Transcaucasia on average lived much better than Central Asia. Tashkent was the capital of the largest Asian Union Republic and the unofficial center of Soviet Central Asia. Naturally, there was a special attitude towards him. And the percentage of Russians, Slavs in this city was several times higher than the average Uzbek.
  8. +2
    16 August 2019 06: 27
    Stalin did not prepare a reliable receiver for himself, and as a result, after the death, the meager characters came to power, as a result, by the year 90, the leadership of the country, special services, and the army had decayed completely. everything that was possible was squeezed out of their allies, therefore both our sworn friends had better economy and living standards.
    1. +2
      16 August 2019 09: 42
      The political system of the USSR was not able to ensure the reproduction of managerial elites - it was Stalin who manually controlled the development of natural social processes. But, one cannot help but admit that even now these mechanisms of reproduction are not sufficiently realized and mastered.
  9. 0
    16 August 2019 06: 45
    A good mechanic friend advised me to join the CPSU. The party card helped him to disown his criminal record - the party meeting of a large unit did not agree to be expelled from the ranks, and the district committee was forced to agree with this decision and he was only a witness in a serious injury court, it was impossible to judge the communist.


    Party card did not help disown criminal records.
    But the party member, like the labor assembly, could take the comrade on bail.
    Now the times are not the same as letting go of bail and there is no question.
    Or a house arrest, or a long term.

    In general, the collapse of a great country was inevitable.


    The reason for the collapse of the USSR was the betrayal of the Politburo, approximately from the beginning of the 70s.

    "12.
    Continuing to help the United States strengthen the legend of "moon landings," in this case, regarding the existence of the supposedly beautiful Apollo ship, the Politburo hoped in return to continue to enjoy various benefits from the policy of detente. They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The author is sure that the Brezhnev Politburo was guided by the best of intentions, exchanging the Moon. But "do not bargain with the devil, you will always lose" ...
    ... Having embarked on the path of "selling the moon," or rather, on the path of exchanging the glory of his country for economic handouts and promises of eternal friendship, the Brezhnev leadership could no longer turn from this path. Who would be worse off exposing the lunar scam?
    The Americans could say in their defense: they fought for their national interests and against communism. And what could the Politburo say to its deceived people, and to those hundreds of thousands of people who have devoted many years of their lives and all their talent to making our country a leader in space, and, therefore, a leader in scientific and technological progress? In fact, it turned out that the Politburo defended the interests of America, that is, of another country. Therefore, the Politburo had to follow the path of deception to the end. If at the beginning of the lunar race it could bargain and advance, then at the end of it it became a prisoner of its "lunar" intrigues. The Politburo was vitally interested in suppressing any doubt within the country about the truth of the "flights to the moon."

    http://www.manonmoon.ru/articles/st55.htm
    1. +3
      16 August 2019 09: 49
      A very big mistake to blame everything on the Politburo! We ALL to some extent participated in the collapse, but with our own meager mind we are not able to fully realize our role, only fragmentarily. We must honestly deal with ourselves and repent. And future generations will draw conclusions.
      1. -1
        16 August 2019 14: 26
        Quote: Victor N
        A very big mistake to blame everything on the Politburo! We ALL to some extent participated in the collapse, but with our own meager mind we are not able to fully realize our role, only fragmentarily. We must honestly deal with ourselves and repent. And future generations will draw conclusions.


        The group of Soviet troops in Germany (GSVG) in the German Democratic Republic was prepared for any situation, even taking into account the enemy’s nuclear attack. They also participated in the collapse of the USSR?

        M. Gorbachev in 1989 decided on the unilateral withdrawal of Soviet troops from Germany.
        The withdrawal of Soviet troops from Germany was also a personal disaster for many thousands of soldiers. Their wives and children were sent to their parents' houses, many soldiers remained to live in tents and tents. Most families could not reunite again.
        Another important issue was the compensation of the USSR for property that they left on German territory. The total value of this property at that time was estimated at $ 28 billion. Only 385 million dollars was paid to Russia in compensation.


        The GSVG soldiers and officers are to blame for the fact that the USSR did not receive full compensation for the property left - 27 billion 615 million dollars at the rate of the 90s?

        Let the Politburo repent and justify itself, but the soldiers and officers of the GSVG need to make excuses only because they did not go with arms to Moscow to find out personally with the Politburo and M. Gorbachev.
        1. 0
          16 August 2019 19: 13
          Still, try to understand. I’ll help a little: up to what point did you support the decisions of the CPSU Central Committee? This is your answer to yourself, only honestly.
          1. -1
            16 August 2019 21: 43
            I would support even now the decisions of the Central Committee of the CPSU, but there is no longer either the Central Committee or the CPSU.
            1. +1
              17 August 2019 08: 30
              You are somehow inconsistent: these institutions have gone bankrupt - why support them? In the old days, on the eve of the conventions, many organizations were involved to prepare decisions. And private individuals were not bothered. Was related to the preparation of 24 more congresses and even then was surprised at the absence of any restrictions (did not come across). Everything, of course, was filtered "at the top" ..... Dogmatism was strong! Despite the prompts “there”, the growing problems of the economy did not want to be noticed and realized, but they kept accumulating and accumulating .... Even now, there are no serious studies on the economic history of the last period of the USSR. Calls to "return to the USSR" are a purely marginal vector, there is no need to talk seriously ... It is necessary to rebuild the country in a new way, taking into account past experience and modern realities. Putin's team succeeds in this (whoever wants and knows how, they see), but the inertia is very high.
              1. 0
                18 August 2019 06: 27
                Quote: Victor N
                You are somehow inconsistent: these institutions have gone bankrupt - why support them? ... Dogmatism was strong! Despite the prompts “there”, the growing problems of the economy did not want to be noticed and realized, but they kept accumulating and accumulating .... Even now, there are no serious studies on the economic history of the last period of the USSR ...


                There are power institutions - I support. There are no institutes - there is no one to support.
                Whatever the power, but it is my power. If possible, you can ask this authority to answer for their conduct. If this is not possible, then the same government will then be embarrassed.
  10. +12
    16 August 2019 06: 48
    It took a year to work as the released secretary of the Komsomol committee in the enterprise. The commissions in the city Komsomol committee from Moscow were remembered. With such cadres, any state would fall apart. I remember our party committee, he confused the platform with the turbine. So, and with a high turbine and spoke. The language is not native, but it is necessary to speak in Russian. They squeezed out such people, apparently they were comfortable. And the honest ones spat and continued to live.
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 07: 12
      here and spit. the system could not digest the opportunists and was rebuilt by them for themselves.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  11. +14
    16 August 2019 06: 52
    Actually the most important thing in the last lines of the article. And now all the power has come off, fenced off and sat in its seats. What does it all, from mayors to the president.
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 07: 23
      power has not come off now, but much earlier. and what they are doing now is effective management, to throw a dice into the crowd on time, to give spectacles and pop-corn in time, the main thing is not to be late for the bulk of requests, etc.
    2. +9
      16 August 2019 07: 30
      Dear savage1976
      Two hours after the publication of the note, you first made a logical conclusion.
      It’s good that there are smart people.
      It’s bad that they are few ...
      I. in addition to the note, a small joke: It is bad when those who defend the interests of countries have their own interests that are far from the interests of the country.
      1. +7
        16 August 2019 08: 45
        Quote: My address
        Two hours after the publication of the note, you first made a logical conclusion.

        With this conclusion, your entire article is saturated.
        From the science of management: the time spent in one position should not exceed 7 years,

        And when sons and godmothers are in control, then nothing good can be expected at all.
      2. +2
        16 August 2019 09: 42
        Quote: My address
        It’s bad that they are few ...

        everyone is free to draw their own conclusions, I’ll tell you my point of view, in 88 from the factory I was in a sanatorium, in Crimea, the city of old Crimea, it was in August, what and why it was remembered in this small town I went to the store and an abundance of washing powder rushed into my eyes , and permaxol, as well as plates
        .which was almost impossible to get, there stupidly on the shelves lay a double-plate Pink Foid, Diperple, Mmichelle Legrand and a bunch of others, and so a week later he returned home, work and so on, his mother sends to the store to buy washing powder and, miraculously, BREAKING away a dozen powder stores did not find, although a week ago there was an abundance, then soap, socks and cigarettes disappeared. shorter than the necessary goods, which caused the discontent of the masses, and led to the collapse. Not the absence of jeans or Finnish boots. namely, essential goods. But the question is different, all these goods were produced and continued, just by order from the top, all this was hidden in warehouses and not without the help of the same KGB, because it was sabotage, then in the year 92, mountains were brought to the dump missing washing powder and spilled soap.
        1. -3
          16 August 2019 11: 38
          Quote: igor67
          . But the question is different, all these goods were produced and continued, just by order from the top, all this was hidden in warehouses and with the help of the KGB

          what warehouses could accommodate such a breakthrough of goods?
          Sabotage throughout the country requires the involvement of the organization, tens of thousands (minimum) people executors, huge office work (telephone messages, orders, orders, etc.).

          WHERE did all this manifest in 30 years, people, documents? A-there is nothing but chatter.

          it was easier explained: money was in bulk, but there weren’t any goods for this pile ...
          1. +1
            16 August 2019 14: 37
            Quote: Olgovich
            WHERE did all this manifest in 30 years, people, documents? A-there is nothing but chatter.

            As for the powder, I can say from memory that I read in a city newspaper in the late 80s. There, at the plant, a brand new powder production line was rusting in the open air, and no one could understand why the authorities did not give the command to assemble it. What was being done at that time with the rest of the factories where the powders were produced, I do not know. By the way, the plant grew out of the "3rd Five-Year Plan" cooperative, and now it's Procter Gamble, sold in the 90s. Well, you can remember how Yeltsin ordered the tobacco factories to close for repairs.
            1. -3
              16 August 2019 14: 40
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              and no one could understand why the authorities did not give the command to mount it.

              And who needs it? Everyone is all over.
              This was EVERYWHERE — and not just for powder, but for machines, cement, etc.
              1. +1
                16 August 2019 14: 56
                Quote: Olgovich
                And who needs it? Everyone is all over.

                It was said that there was a command not to mount from above. Oral. feel And don't "who needs it?" Everyone, the wives of the workers, wanted the peasants to work there with questions, what nonsense is going on? Nobody could understand anything.
            2. +1
              16 August 2019 22: 04
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Well, one can recall how Yeltsin ordered the tobacco factories to be closed for repairs.


              Deficit in the USSR was created artificially
              Nikolai Ryzhkov, in 1985-1990. - Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, in the television program “USSR. The collapse of the empire ”(episode 7), shown on December 11, 2011 (NTV channel) tells how this tobacco famine was artificially created in the country:“ Gorbachev calls me and says: “Here’s Yeltsin, can’t you come to me? " I've come. And I already knew what was going on. For several days almost riots took place. I say: “Mikhail Sergeyevich, why are you asking me? There is Boris Nikolaevich next to you, and ask him.
              Boris Nikolaevich, I may be mistaken, 28 tobacco factories. Of these, 26 were stopped for repair in one day. So what are you asking?
              That (ie Gorbachev): “Boris Nikolaevich, on what basis did you decide to stop the tobacco industry of the republic almost completely. Why did you do this? ”

              https://ss69100.livejournal.com/2353654.html

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPbceuIQw3o
              600 Seconds by Nevzorov, 1989. 1:38 - chickens and pigs die and rot in the factory. And there are thousands of such cases throughout the country.

              There were many signs of deliberate bringing the miners to a riot: a delay in funds, a ban on the issuance of workwear, and more. But the disappearance of goods from store shelves is especially significant. At first, there was no meat and dairy products, bread products. Then there was no bedding, socks, cigarettes, razor blades. And then tea, washing powder, toilet and laundry soap disappeared from the shelves. And all this for a short time. The miners had nothing to eat and nothing to wash.
          2. +2
            16 August 2019 14: 39
            Quote: Olgovich
            WHERE did this all manifest itself in 30 years, people, documents?

            I wrote to you in white and white that heaps of spoiled consumer goods were transported to landfills, you just can’t imagine what huge heaps were, and in your opinion everyone should have photographed for you? I think this was everywhere, at least I described to you my former town district with a population under 90 thousand
          3. +1
            16 August 2019 22: 11
            Quote: Olgovich
            What warehouses could accommodate such a breakthrough of goods?
            Sabotage throughout the country requires the involvement of the organization, tens of thousands (minimum) people-executors, huge office work (telephone messages, orders, orders, etc.).
            WHERE did it all manifest itself in 30 years, people, documents? A-there is nothing but chatter.
            It was easier explained: the money was in bulk, but there weren’t any goods for this heap ...


            Naturally, the accumulation of hundreds of thousands of wagons with goods and food, including imported, across the country automatically attracted the eyes of the trading mafia, which, in close alliance with the criminal mafia, began mass looting of these goods. No MPS would have the strength to ensure the safety and security of goods in such gigantic volumes and on such a vast territory. The number of crimes on railways and stations began to double almost monthly.
            What can we say that there was simply nowhere to store such a huge amount of goods, which was certainly taken into account by the fifth column, which found where to hide it for the time being.

            The situation in which the store shelves were empty and any products and goods were abundant in the country could lead only to one thing - to riots of the population, which the fifth column actually sought. In the cities of the country, primarily in large industrial centers, where there is a large working class, mass protests of people skillfully translated into riots and riots begin in Moscow and Leningrad. By the fall of 1990, the situation was already ripe for this. Newspapers and magazines are full of messages about bread, vodka, tobacco, meat and other riots. Moreover, the fifth column acts as the creators of these publications. Thus, an article by academician S. Shatalin, the “godfather” of the “500 Days” program, in the magazine “Spark” is preceded by photographs of crowds of people at stores with a remark: “Every day, as if by magic, goods that were already in short supply are becoming scarce. There is nothing to shave, nothing to wash, nothing to brush your teeth, nothing ... ”and so on.
            In this article, S. Shatalin, after complaining about the imperfection of statistics in the field of economics and other husks, says the main thing: “Summing up the brief results of discussions about expanding the volume of production of goods and paid services in the USSR as the main factor in balancing the consumer market, we emphasize that the USSR needs financial and technical assistance from developed countries, contacts with which, due to the objective logic of events, should expand continuously. But the USSR should also enter the topic of the world economy in a suit made by an experienced one; political and economic tailor "
          4. +1
            17 August 2019 09: 21
            Olgovich, you doubt that the goods were withdrawn from sale in order to create a deficit?
            I testify!
            In Abkhazia, all household appliances from state warehouses were taken to the mountains. There, in private estates, huge cinder block sheds for household needs, a tradition from the time of the tsarist army (spied, liked, convenient), the so-called barracks - in them everything removed from warehouses was located until better times. One Sunday, after my house, one after another, all day the trucks were going, loaded with equipment to the top, not closed, one could consider refrigerators, televisions, furniture, etc. Everything was exported! And the next day - empty shelves! Empty warehouses! In grocery - one pepsikola in glass bottles! As now I happened to find out - only now! - its production is an American company Pepsiko, which came to us in 1972, and it was impossible to cover it, it continued to produce and sell. Queues arose for bread, and people began to follow him to the bakery - a queue of hundreds of people, conflicts! But the market worked, everything was there - at the prices of a private trader. Clearly, for what? In general, there was political tension. Tanks were introduced into the cities. They stood in the central squares ...
            And what do I see now? And the same thing. Only not sharply, but gradually. Then a colleague wrote about socks, recalled. Socks disappeared in my village from selling! Entire pendants hung, clusters of socks, in the aisles. You go and cling to them - children, women, men - in abundance! There are no these socks! Literally disappeared the other day. Like some other types of goods. Apparently, the disappearances will continue - slowly and inevitably, I will follow. So what is it? Is the bourgeoisie preparing a shortage for us? Gives a fight to Putin? The question is for what purpose, how dangerous is it for the population.
      3. 0
        16 August 2019 09: 56
        "Power has come off" - these are subjective feelings. It can never be ruled out that, in fact, WE break away, ceasing to objectively assess reality.
      4. +4
        16 August 2019 11: 33
        it began ... the power came off, the power sat up ... it's just a natural process. You just need to rotate personnel in the country. But do not confuse rotation with profanity, in the form of sables and oval. If people really fake signatures, and then go out into the streets to make themselves upset, then we are definitely not on the way.
        Rotation of personnel, in all kinds of administrations, is necessary so that they do not bronze and do not grow into fleas like a dog.
        Question: where to get the footage? Good question. The answer is to grow up in kindergarten starting. Again the dilemma: growing from a pot, but where to get the time for this? Again, the answer: do not demolish to the ground (and this is our favorite national "fun"), then with such difficulty and sacrifice we crystallize the elite in our country (sorry for the beaten-down word). Because it will be very, very difficult to isolate something worthwhile from the gray mass that they managed to create after the collapse of the USSR. Not impossible, but difficult.
        The point is not "to be patient and our children will live better", otherwise we will again become "patience". But everyone needs work! Do not sit in the position "my hut is on the edge", noticed the jamb - do everything to remove it. No matter how, but within the framework of the law. I agree that it is difficult, but possible after all. Everything collapses in five seconds, but it takes decades ... unfortunately.
        And they really need to restore the death penalty for theft and embezzlement of state property on an especially large scale with confiscation. This does not threaten the mere mortal with anything, but the power will be a shortcut.
        1. -1
          16 August 2019 19: 19
          Neither before nor after did no one give birth or raise a "gray mass". And everything is much more complicated: the death penalty and confiscation will not achieve much.
          1. 0
            19 August 2019 05: 56
            To do this, you need to compare crime in the USSR and the Russian Federation (the corruption component thereof) and the comparison will not be in favor of the latter. So the applications from the brilliant green on the forehead were miraculous.
    3. 0
      16 August 2019 10: 51
      Quote: savage1976
      And now all the power has come off, fenced off and sat in its seats. What does it all, from mayors to the president.

      At the very beginning, I clarified to the author that the topic was beaten. Everyone is talking about the change of power and the possibility of recalling the chosen ones, BUT !!! the constitution is changed only for the sake of giving new powers to the president - a person appointed from among the people. And most importantly, the author said in just one sentence:
      Similarly with the system, non-specialist (without appropriate education, without experience working with small and large teams, without satisfaction with the vast majority of the above teams).

      True with the phrase:
      ... without satisfaction with the overwhelming majority of the above groups ...

      you can argue. The leader is not a woman = a glass and not a girl with reduced social responsibility in order to satisfy the majority of collectives. Sergey Pavlovich Korolev proved himself the ruthless and firm implementation of the plans (in relation to the case) by the head. And his success was proved by the result. Yes
      Quote: My address
      I. in addition to the note, a small joke: It is bad when those who defend the interests of countries have their own interests that are far from the interests of the country.

      I will give you the idea of ​​a "not quite smart person" because I continue to enrich my stock of knowledge. There is such a section in the Constitution of the Russian Federation:
      Chapter 2. The rights and freedoms of man and citizen
      If you have free time, open this chapter and ... right from the list (you can with photos and videos):
      Article 17
      ...
      3. The exercise of the rights and freedoms of a person and citizen must not violate the rights and freedoms of others.

      or:
      Article 19
      1. All are equal before the law and the court.

      and also:
      Article 21
      1. The dignity of the individual is protected by the state. Nothing can be the basis for its derogation.

      Therefore, in conclusion, I conclude:
      It’s bad when those who defend the interests of the country have their own interest, far from the interests of the country.

      ... and it’s completely disgusting when the hypocrites and liars in power defend only their own (unknown to anyone) interests and personal security, for the maintenance of which they bring the staff to:
      1729 people (as of 2015) with a total content of 9 billion 193 million rubles. (as of 2016), which is equal to the average employee salary of 443 rubles (subject to change) ...
      But the same "Guarantee Book" says:
      Article 19
      2. The state guarantees equal rights and freedoms of man and citizen independently by gender, race, nationality, language, origin, property and official position, place of residence, attitude to religion, beliefs, affiliation with public associations, as well as other circumstances. Any form of restriction of rights of citizens on grounds of social, racial, national, linguistic or religious affiliation.

      But it's just - notes of a madman ...
      hi
    4. 0
      23 August 2019 23: 41
      Well, mayors have been changed too often in recent years, and many have been planted. Those wishing to take this post in many cities, especially small and medium ones, are somehow not observed. Mayors now for the most part are absolution for the sins of the regional authorities, governors.
  12. +5
    16 August 2019 06: 53
    Do you know that even a simple party card holder possessed some immunity as a communist - instead of tightening his responsibility?

    Incorrectly constructed phrase. I say this as a "simple owner of a party card" at one time, who did not burn, like some drunks in power, and did not shoot at the shooting range, as my democratically bruised colleagues did.
    The incorrectness is that when committing an offense, a member of the CPSU was exposed not only to criminal (administrative) liability, but also to party responsibility. If the fault was serious - exclusion from the ranks. If not obvious - they could have been like with a mechanic. It would not have saved from a criminal record, but the characteristic from the place of work (including the party one) meant something.
    And that instead of a living and adequate ideological "superstructure" over the "economic basis", as they said then, we received a set of erased irreplaceable ideological clichés - a huge "thank you" to the "man in the case" - MA Suslov. His role in the collapse of the USSR is still a very poorly studied topic.
    1. 0
      23 August 2019 23: 48
      And the man was honest, and lived modestly. In this regard, there were no complaints to him. But, indeed, he was a great dogmatist. True, he was not a Stalinist either.
  13. +4
    16 August 2019 07: 03
    In addition, a "shadow underground bourgeoisie" began to form, which began to merge with the party nomenclature ... And the party nomenclature itself began to engage in shadow business, the income of this stratum grew, money could not be legalized, "changes" were needed, and they happened ..
  14. -3
    16 August 2019 07: 19
    At the scale of the plant, directors were filmed, but already first secretary of the party committee could have had nothing to do if pre-taxed with pieces of paper.

    After this phrase, I realized that the author never worked at a large enterprise / organization. And his conversations about the Komsomol are the result of comprehension of Solzhenitsyn, Dovlatov, Voinovich and some others.
    1. +3
      16 August 2019 08: 54
      Quote: Amateur
      After this phrase, I realized that the author never worked at a large enterprise / organization.

      The author in the USSR held a leadership position in a large enterprise, if I am not mistaken.
    2. 0
      23 August 2019 23: 52
      I think the author just made a slip of the tongue. There were secretaries of the party committee, party bureau or party organization (depending on the size of the party organization).
      1. -1
        24 August 2019 05: 36
        I think the author just made a slip of the tongue.

        You can make a reservation in oral speech. And here he described himself.
        Because he never worked at / in a Soviet factory or organization.
        Confused with the district committee of the CPSU
  15. 0
    16 August 2019 07: 25
    [i] By order in the district committee of the CPSU “Shoved” the masters of the production site, did not love him for arrogance. [/ i]
    That's how mediocrity and scoundrels made their way to power. For only one order in the party must be damned for centuries.
  16. -2
    16 August 2019 07: 39
    Well done nothing to say! The main thing is how to turn. You don’t even have to cook. Those daring, who recently defended the Union, rushed to talk about certain shortcomings.
    But I’m happy that I live under Putin. Now there are no flaws. All just great. The president of the government cares about the people, about a healthy diet, about the environment. Again, cars in the yards, not like Pr Lenin. For the first time in the last thousand years, the country began to grow in territories.
    1. +3
      16 August 2019 09: 27
      Quote: Gardamir
      The president of the government cares about the people, about a healthy diet, about the environment.

      Now everyone cares only about their fifth point, but the president is still on the fifth point of his friends in the cooperative.
    2. -1
      16 August 2019 10: 00
      Quote: Gardamir
      But I'm happy that I live under Putin

      And right now, talk about Putin? belay
      1. 0
        16 August 2019 10: 05
        For some of our colleagues on the site, even a discussion of the Trojan war or a showdown between the Papuans smoothly flows to Putin)
        1. -2
          16 August 2019 10: 40
          laughing Wow, Putin is also to blame for the death of Tutankhamun!
          1. -1
            16 August 2019 11: 07
            The most interesting thing is that instead of this power they are trying to shove the ideological corpse of the USSR to us.
            Do they understand that this system killed itself? What will she never work again? Sure, understand. But they continue. So this is explained only by the desire to fall fatter and taller to the feeder.
            1. +4
              16 August 2019 11: 48
              shove us
              Sorry, I love women, so this is definitely not the right place. Then, can anything good be said about the USSR? They tortured the working people with free medicine, forced them to study, it was a shame to say there were no drug addicts and homeless people. The Union did not even want a peace treaty with Japonia. Whether business now.
              1. -2
                16 August 2019 11: 53
                Quote: Gardamir
                sorry i love women

                Oh come on! Loving women with nerves are always in order! wink
                Quote: Gardamir
                I am ashamed to say there were no drug addicts and homeless people.

                Really ashamed .. and drug addicts, and there were homeless people, and LTP in every district!
                Quote: Gardamir
                The Union did not even want a peace treaty with Japonia.

                laughing Are you sure about this?
              2. -5
                16 August 2019 11: 58
                Mocking humor can leave your associates.
                There were no homeless people.
                If you don’t want to work where your boss has set you up, welcome to walk in a system to cut wood.
                The boss decided for you and your life. Want to be such a boss? So this is not a fact.
                I can tell you separately about medicine "for everyone" and the regional hospital of the 70s. The same is about medicine for others, for example, party workers, and how it was different. Or about dentistry, it's also interesting. But I think you already know all this, right?
                And about the peace treaty of Japan and the USSR it is better to read in a reliable source. That would not lie
                1. +3
                  16 August 2019 12: 07
                  That would not lie
                  You better not write. Tales about the bosses, about the clinic. And that agreement could be concluded subject to the withdrawal of American bases. Lavrov just wants to give the islands without any conditions. The Japanese made a peace treaty and again negotiated, it’s not a pity for the islands. Or will you lie in the spirit of a car buty?
                  1. -6
                    16 August 2019 12: 29
                    No no no.
                    No need here to translate everything to the familiar barrel organ, it won’t work.
                    I will decide whether to write to me or not. While I am writing, and for many years, without the advice of various clever men and kindlings.
            2. -3
              16 August 2019 12: 40
              Quote: Mestny
              So this is explained only by the desire to fall fatter and taller to the feeder.

              Probably yes!
          2. 0
            16 August 2019 11: 40
            Putin is also to blame for the death of Tutankhamun!
            Who dared to blame Putin? And I realized that he didn’t dive for amphorae, but rode in a time machine.
            1. -1
              16 August 2019 11: 41
              And Putin, too, collapsed the USSR?
              Well, what will you do, and here he is.
              1. +1
                16 August 2019 11: 58
                [quote] [And the USSR also collapsed Putin? / quote] What do you mean by the word collapsed?
                [quote] On August 20, 1991, during a speech by Anatoly Sobchak against the GKChP, Lieutenant Colonel Putin wrote a report on his dismissal from the KGB. At the same time, Putin’s resignation was accepted by the KGB leadership in the beginning of spring 1990, the main official place of work of Putin was Leningrad State University (Leningrad State University) (formerly named after A. A. Zhdanov). At LSU, Putin became assistant to the rector Stanislav Merkuryev for international affairs.
                Merkuryev later recommended Anatoly Sobchak Putin as an executive.
                Since May 1990 - Advisor to the Chairman of the Leningrad City Council of People's Deputies Sobchak.
                Since June 28, 1991, after the election of A. A. Sobchak as mayor, he has been the acting chairman, and since July 15, the chairman of the Committee on External Relations of the Mayor's Office of Leningrad (May 16, 1992, St. Petersburg) [52]. Putin’s duties as head of the committee included raising investment in St. Petersburg, collaborating with foreign companies, organizing joint ventures, and developing tourism and controlling gambling. Putin was the curator of the organization of the first currency exchange in St. Petersburg and facilitated the arrival of several large German firms. With the participation of Putin, one of the first banks with foreign capital in Russia was opened - BNP-Drezdner Bank (Rossija) [/ quote]
                1. -1
                  16 August 2019 12: 30
                  So he also lived at this time. So this is one hundred percent proof of guilt.
            2. -1
              16 August 2019 11: 54
              Quote: Gardamir
              Who dared to blame Putin?

              Yes, blame as much as you want, just do not drag it to every topic!
        2. +1
          16 August 2019 11: 06
          Quote: Pissarro
          For some of our colleagues on the site, even a discussion of the Trojan war or a showdown between the Papuans smoothly flows to Putin)

          When there is a showdown on topics related to "intrauterine" Russian life, it is very rash to refer to the harm of American sanctions, or your own low-income old age, or the constant lies of insignificant people ...
          hi
          1. -3
            16 August 2019 11: 10
            The quality of any system is determined by its ability to withstand negative influences. In general, it doesn’t matter what the source is.
            The USSR has demonstrated the inability of such a confrontation, the inability to change and adapt, and even more so to win.
            It is obvious.
            And the current government, if it can resist, everything will be in order. If not, then no, the country will fall apart again. Only this time for the last.
            1. 0
              19 August 2019 06: 37
              but it is the USSR of 1991 that is taken.
        3. +1
          16 August 2019 11: 37
          discussion of the Trojan war or squabbles between the Papuans
          And here you are wrong, let's discuss the Trojan War. But if there is nothing good to say about the Union, stop throwing stones at the dead.
          1. -3
            16 August 2019 12: 09
            Quote: Gardamir
            But if there is nothing good to say about the Union, stop throwing stones at the dead

            Demand censorship and execution for mentioning the Union, some will even support you!
            1. +1
              16 August 2019 12: 17
              Demand
              Dialogue is when people of even opposing opinions seek common ground. Like you, trying to cheat the Union, such as against this background, and a long Russia good.
              1. -3
                16 August 2019 12: 22
                Quote: Gardamir
                Like you, trying to cheat the Union

                To cheat? Well, yes, the truth is, it is rarely pleasant!
                Quote: Gardamir
                Type on this background and a long Russia good.

                belay Are you definitely a man?
                1. -1
                  16 August 2019 12: 51
                  true, it is rarely pleasant!
                  Well, tell us about the impoverishment of the people under the current government, and it’s even ridiculous to look for the type of truth in prehistoric times.
                  1. -3
                    16 August 2019 14: 12
                    Quote: Gardamir
                    Well, tell us about the impoverishment of the people under the current government.

                    Yes, the people really became impoverished, in every third Russian family instead of two cars there is now one and this is really outrageous !!!
                    1. 0
                      19 August 2019 18: 14
                      Well, yes, well, now every homeless person has an imported trough on wheels. such beautiful, only now they live in barns. I have a neighbor, every morning he drives to work in a new white Land Cruiser. Another neighbor of mine works in the savings bank. We somehow went out for a smoke, she asks me, "do you know how much he earns," I’ll probably tell her a million a month. She didn’t guess me - (minus) 24 rubles, I don’t happen to her, she still happens, he is a security guard in Oshan -000 rubles and only interest on loans is 17 rubles, so it turns out - (minus) 000. I tell her so soon we will have a new neighbor, she is Sergei, you can’t even imagine how soon.
                      Sergey - You probably live somewhere on Mars, one piece of advice (no offense) fly to our earth at least for a couple of days - you will learn a lot of new things.
                      1. 0
                        20 August 2019 08: 16
                        Quote: Sergey K
                        Sergey - You probably live somewhere on Mars

                        Yeah, second street on the right! wink
                        Quote: Sergey K
                        Well, yes, yes, now every homeless person has an import trough on wheels. such beautiful ones, only they live in sheds.

                        Well, who is to blame? Is it really evil Putin ???
                      2. 0
                        23 August 2019 18: 53
                        What does Putin have to do with it, it all started when Putin was a lieutenant colonel and served in the provincial GDR town. Okay, I'm sorry, it's my fault, I just can not get used to social networks.
      2. +1
        16 August 2019 11: 34
        And right now, talk about Putin?
        Well, let's talk about Volochkova. Or you won’t go to bed if you don’t know how bad Ukraine is. Just see, Volochkova, Ukraine and the Union are all far away and there is no need to discuss them. if you have something to say for the glory of the new Russia, write. Only after all, again you will copy Kiselev.
        1. -5
          16 August 2019 12: 33
          And whom should you copy?
          Gorbachev, Yeltsin?
          How do you even manage to say that the crashed USSR was better than modern Russia - alive and not about to die?
          Or maybe she should die too, so that people like you would find a reason to water what remains on her wreckage.
      3. -3
        16 August 2019 11: 37
        well, they have it everywhere, straight Bohh
    3. 0
      16 August 2019 10: 04
      Any reasoning "About Care" is a sure sign of residual infantilism. But not everyone realizes this even by the end of life. In nature and society, it is real, but until a certain stage, mom takes care of the offspring. And then - only about myself. Otherwise, it is doomed, you will only survive by chance.
      1. +3
        16 August 2019 11: 52
        "About Caring" is a sure sign of residual infantilism.
        And again, you are right. Only in exchange for "care" did we get calm streets, even at night, and the absence of drug addicts. And now we are offered to drive away from paternalism, but in one direction. We give them taxes, but they give us nothing!
        1. -2
          16 August 2019 19: 28
          Angry .... But is it not so bad? And before, not everything was good. On both sides of the Afghan border, almost none of the locals smoked tobacco, only drugs.
          1. +2
            16 August 2019 21: 54
            And before, not everything was good.
            But you have to live today. From picking on the shortcomings of the past, today it will not get better.
            1. -3
              17 August 2019 14: 27
              Yes, it’s not a question, we won’t pick it.
              Just do not expose this past with its shortcomings as an alternative to the present.
              But this is exactly what you are proposing - to destroy the present in order to build that very past?
              1. +2
                17 August 2019 15: 02
                But this is exactly what you are proposing - to destroy the present in order to build that very past?
                You are wrong here. Personally, I am ready to quietly love the past, without imposing anyone. But they suggest me, first, spit in the past, and then say, we live well, because the past is fuuuu.
                So far, for some reason, we get a different assessment of the same events taking place today. Some say that is good. others about the same bad.
    4. +4
      16 August 2019 11: 03
      Quote: Gardamir
      For the first time in the last thousand years, the country began to grow in territories.

      I will continue:
      ... and over the past 29 years and the number of people living in these territories. If things move in this direction, the time is not far off when Russia grows with a territory of 9 km² and a population of 598 people, which grows every few seconds. True, Putin will no longer be the president of the country, and it is unlikely that the majority will vote for a candidate with a Russian surname ... feel
      (joke, sarcasm, irony)
      hi
    5. 0
      16 August 2019 17: 37
      Are you serious?
      Homeland, Race, Rod?
      In my opinion, we are now more than ever far from this ...
  17. +9
    16 August 2019 07: 54
    about chameleons from the Polypov clan, from the series "Shadows disappear at noon"

    Polypov was in the movie "Eternal Call"
  18. +2
    16 August 2019 07: 57
    Quote: Alexander (My address)
    In general, the collapse of a great country was inevitable.

    In general, I agree with your article, but not with the last sentence. I would formulate otherwise: With such a guideThe collapse of a great country was inevitable. You just write about it.
  19. +5
    16 August 2019 08: 16
    It is believed that towards the end of his life, Stalin wanted to separate the party from control, leaving behind only ideology, which accelerated the demise.
  20. +5
    16 August 2019 08: 22
    about chameleons from the Polypov clan, from the series "Shadows disappear at noon"
    Sorry, but Pyotr Petrovich Polipov was in the film "Eternal Call".
  21. +5
    16 August 2019 08: 36
    In general, I am ready to subscribe next to the author, but .... in many I do not agree with him.
    After all, he wrote not about the SYSTEM, but about specific personalities ..
    And there is a wide variety of them at all times.
    I also had a relationship with the Komsomol ...
    He did not hold any noticeable posts, but he did not stay in the ranks until the age of 28, at 30.
    Komsomol ticket left for memory "For active work in the Komsomol"
    He joined the party, no matter how much the young specialist pulled, only when he felt that he was ripe.
    I have never sensed any immunity from the word "absolutely".
    Party workers at the plant, in the district committee, city committee, regional committee were competent hard workers.
    At meetings, he freely criticized the anti-alcohol campaign (by methods and methods), as he criticized the Central Committee for abolishing it.
    Not a single hair fell from my head ...
    And the third secretary of the regional committee (in ideology) and even IML listeners killed by admitting that he wrote a term paper on the uprising in Motovilikha in 1905, where he boldly indicated that the Bolshevik party did not participate in his organization because of their complete absence at the factory at that time ..
    As for the tops of the party apparatus, completely different laws acted there.
    The laws of power. And they in no way depend on Bolshevism, anarchism, capitalism.
    The path to the top of the system is always thorny, long and unpredictable with any system ....
    So the topic of the title is not disclosed by the author
  22. BAI
    +4
    16 August 2019 08: 39
    The USSR was ruined not by the economy, but by the existence of a leading caste of untouchables. When responsibility could overtake anyone - without exception, there was a rapid development. In China now too. And in Russia a caste of untouchables has formed again. The "end of the USSR" is very likely - 2.
    1. -3
      16 August 2019 10: 23
      Where did this caste come from in the USSR? Has it really flown from another planet?
      No, these are our fellow citizens. They studied at the Soviet school, were brought up by Soviet parents, worked in Soviet collectives.
      And the result of all this is such. Rogues and thieves.
      Well, crooks and thieves appear everywhere. But the system was arranged so that it was they who were most in demand in power in the USSR.
      Now it’s clear, capitalism, everyone is fighting for a place under the sun.
      And then, with this. the fairest ideology in the world - how did it happen?
      Maybe - the ideology is ... wrong?
  23. +1
    16 August 2019 08: 48
    Absolutely right. good hi
  24. AB
    +4
    16 August 2019 09: 00
    Too many real people died in WWII. The result is visible to everyone ...
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 10: 15
      And that the USSR arose and that it disappeared - the damned WEST is to blame.
      The West began the intervention and World War II, in which the best Russian people, including the best communists, were killed. If not for the war, maybe Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev, Yeltsin would not have existed.
      And there would be our Russian Xi Jin Ping.
      The party elite, like current officials, has been corrupted and corrupted by the same west.
      And all that has happened and is happening is a consequence of the policy of Western countries.
      For our civilization, the West was, is and will be the ENEMY.
  25. 0
    16 August 2019 09: 04
    Control and criticism are the foundations of good governance

    Now this is what we have: for one "Vasya with a shovel" there are several dozen effective managers giving recommendations, and hundreds of popular bloggers criticizing.

    As for the fall ... everyone is to blame: the top, some of which turned out to be traitors and collaborators, and the whole people, some of them passively and some with active actions voted for capitalist jeans and the ability to "bend" others to the detriment of justice and social security. They just did not take into account that many want to bend, and that there are only a few per million of nagibators, and traitors are not needed by anyone afterwards.
    Just look at the date of birth: born in the USSR before the 80s - to blame! So it makes no sense to seek and appoint - just look in the mirror.
  26. +4
    16 August 2019 09: 28
    I found little of the Soviet Union, but in my life I came across precisely the very theses that are described in the article.

    Large Finnish company. I came into it and sincerely tried to influence the situation, exposing and fighting internal shortcomings. He was young. At first they smiled, then they were silent, and then they simply asked the question: "Probably you just do not see yourself in our company and you should look for another place." At the same time, my acquaintance did not climb beyond his own table, but spoiled the life of the colleagues around him (consistently implementing the decisions of the "congresses") - he was pushed for promotion. Even his nickname was appropriate - "Komsomolets".

    I think that a similar problem is characteristic in principle for a large team, because the country is also a collective.
  27. -1
    16 August 2019 10: 10
    Quote: Victor N
    The political system of the USSR was not able to ensure the reproduction of managerial elites - it was Stalin who manually controlled the development of natural social processes.

    That's it!
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 10: 33
      Quote: kalibr
      That's it!

      Brad!
  28. -2
    16 August 2019 10: 18
    Quote: Thrifty
    -the reason for the collapse of any country is mediocrity or mediocrity in power! This is when the property suddenly gets POWER !!! This led to the collapse of the USSR, when the talker birds came into power, with their hands growing from the fifth point of the body.

    The reason for the collapse of any country is its structure, which allows mediocrity to get to the top of power.
    Because people are at the top of power, their qualities are the result of the system.
  29. +1
    16 August 2019 10: 25
    Quote: Vilensky
    I don't want to sound like a braggart, but ...

    I ruined the USSR. What I'm sorry about right now.
    1. 0
      19 August 2019 06: 45
      to dohtra urgently!
  30. +3
    16 August 2019 10: 28
    Quote: Bator
    The collapse began with Khrushchev and continued under Gorbachev ..

    Khrushchev and Gorbachev led different collapses.
    Khrushchev simply exchanged the difficult path to communism for comfortable philistine happiness.
    This is even partly excusable, because Khrushchev was not very educated and smart.
    And Gorbachev is different. This man conducted a conscious and consistent policy of the complete destruction of the state and its surrender to the Americans.
    Gorbachev’s account is the destruction of the Warsaw Pact and the subsequent destruction of Yugoslavia. It was he who destroyed CMEA, depriving the Russian Federation of colossal economic opportunities
    And how he destroyed the economy of the USSR itself, it's just a song.
    For example, cigarette factories across the country were simultaneously closing down,
    vineyards were cut down.
    Puchkov on the channel correctly says - so that the USSR does not fall apart, instead of perestroika, it was enough to release mountains of cheap good clothes and it would be a little better to establish a supply of food for others.
  31. +1
    16 August 2019 10: 48
    Why do Russians so often discuss the causes of the collapse of the USSR. So I understand that you have any plans for the revival of this state since you are looking for the reasons for its collapse?
    1. +1
      16 August 2019 11: 36
      Quote: Semurg
      So I understand you have some kind of plans for the revival of this state

      No, you don't have to worry. There is a strong belief that this time there will be no fools to feed and develop "fraternal peoples" to the detriment of the Russian. All the internationalists somehow got up ...
      An equal alliance with mutual responsibility - why not?
      1. -1
        17 August 2019 09: 02
        Recently, an Altai was visiting us, something in his story was not about an equal union of Altai and Russians, but it was believed that after 50 years the Altai would completely lose their identity. Well, yes, they themselves are to blame for this. True, I have an opinion if they have their own state, then they will survive as the Altai.
        1. +1
          19 August 2019 06: 48
          keep your opinion to yourself, there will be no independent Altai
        2. 0
          24 August 2019 00: 05
          Is it not fat for the 80th people to have their own state? They in the Altai Republic make up only a third of the population. This is a union of the former Soviet Union republics.
  32. +3
    16 August 2019 11: 02
    I do not quite agree. In the USSR, if a hard worker complains in the city, and God forbid, in the regional committee. Measures were taken already on the run, there wasn’t enough for everyone .... And now, if only the GDP.
    1. -2
      16 August 2019 11: 40
      The picture under the USSR, personally observed.
      District police station, stove heating (1985). The stove smoked, it is necessary to shift.
      Chief - "Do you have a stove-maker? Was the same, Vaska."
      - Yes, there is one.
      - Take it for a day, let it shift the stove to us.
      And what do you think - took, shifted. And for this they did not write paper for work, that he flew for a day.

      This is about justice, "if a hard worker complains, then everyone immediately runs to execute."
      1. 0
        19 August 2019 06: 49
        and now it is not possible?
    2. +2
      16 August 2019 12: 40
      And not just complaints.
      After contacting the district committee, according to my letter, the bus stop was moved and an asphalt track was laid where there was a dirt path for decades.
      Both people use it right now
  33. +4
    16 August 2019 11: 35
    Quote: Semurg
    Why do Russians so often discuss the causes of the collapse of the USSR. So I understand you have some kind of plans for the revival of this state since you are looking for the reasons for its collapse

    because the USSR was hope, and the Russian Federation-it is complete darkness ahead.
    There are no plans for revival, but most who lived in the USSR, who are strong and who are few, but want the return of those best features of the state that were in the USSR.
    The main thing that I remember, the USSR gave hope and confidence to so many that everything would be fine. And now even rich people are far from certain of this.
    The USSR could at any moment demand from any citizen literally everything — devotion and even risk to life or even a consciously fatal mission, but everyone was sure that after that the state would take care of its relatives. And this is a fair deal.
    And now the state takes everything, and in return we get miserable crumbs.
    1. 0
      17 August 2019 14: 31
      "Let's argue about the tastes of oranges with those who ate them."
      Personally, I ate. And you?
      The USSR was the only hope in the speeches of propagandists from the stands and on newsprint. It was invented by the USSR. But the real one ceased to exist due to fundamental problems in the economy, which in turn is a consequence of Soviet ideology.
    2. 0
      24 August 2019 00: 08
      I regret exclusively the collapse of the USSR as a state-territorial entity with a single army and foreign policy. And what kind of system would be in it is the second thing.
  34. +1
    16 August 2019 11: 41
    The USSR collapsed for one simple reason - there was no class of people in Soviet society that would try to preserve this USSR. And you are a member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or CDU / CSU does not play a role, this is akin to faith in God in our time - your personal, unlike your own business, thanks to which you live, which you develop and improve yourself, and not to the detriment of others, unlike own well-being and well-being of family and children. And when the lupen engineers came out at the end of 1989-1991. on the streets of Moscow and Leningrad, personifying the lumpen proletariat of the times of the Russian revolution of 1917, then nothing else could have happened except the restoration of capitalism. Now, apparently, they are aiming at the opposite process. "Dialectics" is in their blood.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. +2
    16 August 2019 12: 03
    I still don't understand why it fell apart. I remember a woman who was washing the floors in our administrative and household plant in the mine. She, with a face red with rage, shouted "all commies must be cut." Then the people took to hand over party cards. At first, they tried to dissuade them, gathered meetings, but when they began to hand over 100 red books a day, everyone simply gave up and began to put these pieces of cardboard in paper bags. Everyone is tired of meetings, party committees. party bureau. Many believed that a bright future would come, but no longer communism with which they were deceived, but now for sure a new American dream will come to every little "Khrushchev". Then we survived in the 90s without light, heat with empty refrigerators, without receiving a salary for months. The mines were flooded, the factories were destroyed, all secret information was given for free to the enemies, but a capitalism with shops, cars and gas stations was built. Many have not only two cars, but a whole fleet of cars and motorcycles, computers, laptops, telephones, everyone has, but again something is missing. I don’t want to go back to the USSR, but nothing has changed in the human sense. Politicians will always value loyalty or submission, the nomenclature is immortal as well as the mafia.
    1. +1
      17 August 2019 13: 17
      Do you know what you are missing? Confidence that the modest charm of the capitalist paradise you described will last at least the next few years.
    2. 0
      17 August 2019 14: 32
      At least you can know all this and speak freely.
      And this in itself is a lot.
  37. +1
    16 August 2019 12: 25
    Quote: My address
    21 comments from the time of publication and only one savage1976 in 8-52 made a logical conclusion. Oh ...

    Only now his comment disappeared somewhere .... winked
  38. +2
    16 August 2019 12: 34
    The only thing that annoys is that we turned into a rogue. Having destroyed our country, betraying our ideals, in the eyes of other peoples of our planet we are disgraced.
    1. -1
      17 August 2019 14: 34
      And there is. Disgraced. Now we must at least once go along the chosen path.
      And to us, fighters with the regime instead offer to be dishonored again.
  39. +1
    16 August 2019 12: 45
    about the chameleons from the Polypov clan, from the series "Shadows disappear at noon" ...

    Polypov from the book of A.S. Ivanov's "Eternal Call", on which a lot of serial film was shot ...
  40. +1
    16 August 2019 12: 56
    Once with my friend Byrd (he is from Turkmenistan) they drank, had a snack, remembered the USSR, the army,
    and came to the conclusion that if at the sunset of the USSR there was a nuclear war with the United States, we would definitely win. Then there was regret that the USSR collapsed. And by the end of the second bottle, Berdy said: “You know, it’s good that the USSR collapsed, otherwise you and I would now be sitting not at the table, but somewhere in Africa or America, under nuclear mushrooms in the trench
  41. +3
    16 August 2019 13: 55
    A good article, fair, in general about everything said. Instead of some there would be others, it would be the same, with some variations in one direction or another. People have not grown up to their Great idea, to its meaning, morality is conscience, it is disinterested, and man is not so powerful as to cope with his egoism and greed. A person is already able to destroy the planet, but with himself is still in no way.
  42. +2
    16 August 2019 14: 02
    Quote: 1536
    The USSR collapsed for one simple reason - there was no class of people in Soviet society who would try to preserve this USSR

    how was it not? In the vote, more than 90% wanted to save the USSR
    the problem was different - people who had grown up for several generations within the state did not know that they had to fight in order to preserve it. And the "elite", until the very collapse, isolated information that not all is well.
    1. 0
      24 August 2019 00: 11
      Yes here. Still, elements of political competition and political self-organization of the population would not be in the way of the Union.
  43. +2
    16 August 2019 22: 22
    Quote: Olgovich
    The foundation of good governance

    Aha! We have seen it for thirty years. And everything is controlled by the "invisible hand of the market"!
  44. +3
    16 August 2019 22: 55
    Quote: yehat
    it was enough to release mountains of cheap good clothes

    at the end of the 80's they told the following story:
    One woman bought Finnish winter boots at the store for 100 rubles. Who remembers - this is happiness! To buy such boots in the store was a great success, and it was possible to buy from speculators for 200 rubles.
    Unfortunately, they showed a defect and the indignant lady did not bear to take them to the store, but sent them to the manufacturer in Finland with indignant comments. I believe this she hoped to get new boots, and in the store she would be returned only money in the amount of one hundred rubles.
    In response, a letter of apology and a money transfer of .... 20 rubles came from the company. It turned out that the Soviet Union bought from them a batch of these boots for 20 rubles ...
    Py.Sy. Was it really impossible to provide all women with warm winter shoes, given such speculation by the state itself?
    1. 0
      16 August 2019 23: 12
      Quote: kunstkammer
      Given such speculation by the state itself?

      Yes, such fabulous fairy tales a whole mountain was in those years, such as the Japanese arrived from the embassy and handed in a new tape recorder, instead of a defective one.
    2. +1
      17 August 2019 11: 21
      You still do not know that there are retail and wholesale prices ...? laughing
    3. 0
      18 August 2019 06: 42
      Quote: kunstkammer
      ... and a money transfer in the amount of .... 20 rubles. It turned out that the Soviet Union bought from them a batch of these boots for 20 rubles ...
      Py.Sy. Was it really impossible to provide all women with warm winter shoes, given such speculation by the state itself?


      At the Congress of Deputies, a terrible scandal arose with shouts about the absence of toothpaste.
      No one thought of the reasons for this absence. They easily decided to buy toothpaste no less - for $ 60 million in France. There she was worth 15 francs. In the USSR, it was sold for 1 rub.
      Somehow, almost all of this pasta for the entire $ 60 million ended up again abroad.
      There were lucky people who managed to buy this three-color pasta while it was exhibited in demonstration stores.

      French perfumes purchased for USSR citizens were exported to the west with boxes at a price of 40 rubles. per bottle, and on this side of the border they were handed over at 80-100 dollars.
      Through state channels in Turkey, for example, there was no export of television sets in 1990 at all. However, 2 million Soviet television sets were brought into this Turkey that year — the entire annual sale in the USSR.

      The shortage of consumer goods did not fall by itself on the heads of the Soviet people, but was a completely man-made phenomenon, for which the party-bureaucratic elite was responsible.
      There are facts that remove the ambiguity and ambiguity from statements such as: "The Gorbachev clique arranged a deficit," but how, by what specific measures this was done, it is not said. The measures were quite definite, legislative.
      June 30, 1987 in the Soviet Union adopted the "LAW ON STATE ENTERPRISE (ASSOCIATION)." Article 19, which was devoted to the regulation of "Foreign Economic Activity", states:
      "1. ... The company ensures the delivery of the first export of products. ”


      http://voinru.com/2015/11/02/kto-spyor-moy-sssr/
  45. 0
    16 August 2019 23: 11
    And now we will listen to the head of the transport department!
  46. -1
    16 August 2019 23: 25
    You know that even the simple owner of a party membership card possessed some immunity as a communist — the author of the article was never a member of the CPSU and hardly held a position higher than the level of the head of the workshop and had no experience with anything — so one of many who could not be called!
    1. -1
      24 August 2019 00: 14
      According to the Charter of the CPSU, a communist could not be prosecuted without the consent of the party organization or higher party bodies. If the primary party organization refused, law enforcement officers could apply to higher party structures.
  47. +1
    17 August 2019 10: 12
    "Soviet power disappeared along with our savings." - Zhvanetsky
  48. +2
    17 August 2019 10: 16
    We had to take an example from China. They preserve the country and the economy grows. The highest party workers wanted to transfer their privileges and power by inheritance. Khrushchev and Gorbachev had to be judged.
  49. 0
    17 August 2019 10: 56
    Well, what kind of engineer are you if you cannot separate "USSR" from "Soviet power"? I did not read anything about the USSR here, only about the flaws of the late Soviet system. And the USSR collapsed for other reasons. Quite objective.
    1. +1
      17 August 2019 14: 36
      For what?
      Martians destroyed?
      1. 0
        18 August 2019 06: 44
        Quote: Mestny
        For what?
        Martians destroyed?


        Betrayal.
  50. +3
    17 August 2019 11: 05
    on the surface, everything is correct, but essentially nonsense, who prevented the communists from removing the bad secretary? the deep reason rarely lies in an individual, or a number of individuals, the people themselves ruined the USSR, the whole rotten intelligentsia dreamed about it, and the top was the quintessence of the process ... and it all did not start with Khrushch, it did not start with the commoner revolutionaries ... ..began with the crime of Adam in the Garden of Eden, when he broke the Covenant, and people break this Covenant hourly, and every minute for which they suffer. ...... there was no longer an ideological root in the USSR, about which the author himself writes frankly, entered the Komsomol for a career, and everyone joined there for this, and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, too, so what did you want to get? Only the Christian idea is fruitful, even in the implementation of Stalin's socialism as a form of Christian justice, and when they lost faith, everything collapses, the main crime of Khrushchev is the beginning of persecution of the church with the tacit consent of the majority, "silent" and especially "entering" for the sake of a career, .......... such a country is doomed ....... like modern Russia, ..... ultimately the country is supported by people trying to do justice ...
    And the Lord said: the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah, he is great, and their sin, he is very difficult;
    21 I will go down and see if they are doing exactly what the cry is upon them, ascending to Me or not; I find out.
    22 And the men turned from there and went to Sodom; Abraham was still standing before the Lord.
    23 And Abraham came up and said, Will you really destroy the righteous with the wicked?
    24 maybe there are fifty righteous in this city? Will you really destroy and not spare this place for the sake of the fifty righteous in it?
    25 It cannot be that you did so that you destroy the righteous with the wicked, that the same thing be with the righteous as with the wicked; cannot be from you! Will the judge of the whole earth act unjustly?
    26 The Lord said: If I find fifty righteous in the city of Sodom, then for their sake I will spare this whole place.
    27 Abraham answered and said: behold, I have decided to speak to the Lord, I, dust and ashes:
    28 maybe up to fifty righteous will lack five, will you destroy the whole city after the lack of five? He said: I will not destroy if I find forty-five there.
    29 Abraham continued to speak with Him and said: maybe there are forty? He said: I will not do that, and for the sake of forty.
    30 And Abraham said: May the Lord not be angry, that I will say: maybe there are thirty? He said: I won’t do it if I find thirty there.
    31 Abraham said: behold, I have decided to speak to the Lord: maybe there will be twenty there? He said: I will not destroy for the sake of twenty.
    32 Abraham said: May the Lord not be angry, what will I say one more time: maybe there are ten? He said: I will not destroy for ten.
    33 And the Lord went, ceasing to speak with Abraham; Abraham returned to his place.
    1. 0
      17 August 2019 13: 49
      Only you, Vladimir, do not agree the whole truth.
      Once here, in VO, I asked Alena: what was the feat of Jesus?
      The fact is that Adam and Eve were not the first people. God created them as the first ideal ones, as opposed to the insignificant scumbags on Earth, which, after their death, he sent together to hell. Adam was supposed to transform the breed of people, but he turned out to be like them. And then God created Jesus - the demigod, half-man. Jesus deliberately provoked his crucifixion on the cross, that is, committed the sin of suicide. And he did this so that as a person after death he would go to Hell. But, having got there, as God he ruined the entrance to Hell and brought out the righteous from there. God the father was forced to accept the decision of his son. Since then, the righteous go to heaven.
      We also had three. One of them is the son of a senior military man. Three went under the tanks - remember? And that in their own way led us to capitalism, anxieties and instability more like Hell. Well, or at Purgatory. Expect the appearance of a demigod-half-man? Who will be able to separate the sheep from the goats? In general, they say that one has already been born. Somewhere. Yes, still small!
      1. 0
        17 August 2019 22: 27
        your fantasies do not correspond to documentary evidence, namely the ancient texts of the Bible, so there is nothing to discuss Revelation 22: 14-19
        14 Blessed are those who keep His commandments, so that they have the right to the tree of life and enter the city by the gates. 15 But outside - dogs and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and everyone who loves and does untruth.

        16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you in the churches. I am the root and descendant of David, the star is bright and morning.

        17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one who hears say: come! Let the thirsty one come, and let him that desire take the water of life for nothing.

        18 And I also testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone attaches what is to them, God will put the sores of which this book is written; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his participation in the book of life, and in the holy city, and in what is written in this book.

        Russian Synodal Translation (Protestant Edition)

        https://www.bibleonline.ru/bible/rst66/rev-22.14-19/

        © Bible Online, 2003-2019.
    2. -1
      18 August 2019 06: 47
      Soddom was destroyed due to
      "... the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah, it is great, and their sin, it is very heavy ..."

      There was nothing to yell so loudly, perhaps it would have cost.
  51. -3
    17 August 2019 11: 19
    A decent communist))). What kind of things were there?
    1. -1
      17 August 2019 14: 39
      Of course there were. No kidding.
      Decent people are everywhere. The question is how many there are, what percentage.
      But the traditional rally method is to immediately cite a few decent people as examples in order to justify the rest of the legion of dishonest ones.
      "A fly in the ointment turns a barrel of honey into a barrel of ointment."
  52. +1
    17 August 2019 11: 34
    We just need a shadow cabinet to govern the country in a constantly stable state, and carefully watch and select who comes to power.
    1. +1
      17 August 2019 14: 43
      We just need the people around them to look around, pick up the trash, paint the benches, and stop crap and steal.
      We started with ourselves.
      Then the government, consisting of the same people, will be correct.
      But is this from the realm of fantasy?
    2. +3
      17 August 2019 18: 33
      Well, there was such a cabinet headed by Abyzov. We know how it all ended.
      And in the context of the conversation, here’s what’s interesting.
      The Soviet government was still alive, but on the border of Abkhazia with the RSFSR, no longer hiding, a customs checkpoint was built in 1989.
      Checkpoint! Customs! Not yet working then, but taking place. As if to say, soon we will be strangers. Thus, openly not hiding plans to dismember the country. People understood. There was no one to ask questions: those in charge shrugged their shoulders and nodded towards Moscow. Like, nothing depends on us.
      People understood and ran - people of non-local nationality. They ran in all directions. Some even went to Australia - under living Soviet power! I believe this was the case in the other union republics. This was the beginning of the end. The collapse of the Union was firmly established in people's minds and implanted in consciousness as something inevitable several years before the date of the country's official demise. Like something catastrophically inevitable. Something like the Spitak earthquake or the reactor explosion in Chernobyl.
      Then the question is: what are these powerful customs-type checkpoints on the border of the Rostov region, which I heard about in the 10s from eyewitnesses? If they still exist, then what role do they play in strengthening ideas about the territorial integrity of Russia?
  53. +2
    18 August 2019 00: 34
    He joined the Komsomol at the age of 15. Somehow it became boring, plus the characteristic could hinder or help when entering a university. Although I was one of the two best students in the graduating class. Moreover, schools with a mathematical bias. I entered the university without stress. Our final exam in mathematics was an order of magnitude more difficult than the university entrance exam. And on the mat. speciality. Even in my senior year at the university, discussing reality, we came to a simple conclusion about the inoperability of our system. Yes, yes, just one phrase that the system cannot work without feedback. From this followed all our failures at the state level. Well, and one more thing. Namely, the absence of a responsible class of owners and democracy. That is, that actual feedback mechanism. There was no need for us to work somewhere for this. Simple observations and generalizations were enough. But if we talk about the country and its collapse, then this was not necessary during the transformations and reforms. Gorby just couldn't cope. He had no complaints about Komsomol and left it due to his age in the late 1980s. For me, the Komsomol is construction brigades, discos with good music in our hostel, and so on. And the KP newspaper was very interesting. Now young people are going crazy without any associations. They come up with ideas for themselves, from behind the hill they are recruited into the Maidan workers or they simply drink and take drugs.
    1. 0
      22 August 2019 08: 42
      Well, you don't have to work. The main thing is to break what you don’t like. And so they did. But Gorby couldn’t cope!
      Everything is very precise and succinct.
  54. 0
    18 August 2019 11: 04
    Quote: "In general, the collapse of a great country was inevitable." End of quote.
    Well, finally, an engineering approach has allowed us to solve a complex problem. I wrote it and cut it off. And I have a question for the author: what evidence do you have that this is precisely the collapse, and not the dissolution of the Union for the subsequent counter-revolution? After all, a counter-revolution took place. And if the “collapse” of the state has begun, at what point will it end?
  55. +1
    18 August 2019 11: 35
    Quote: Minato2020
    The shortage of consumer goods did not fall by itself on the heads of the Soviet people, but was a completely man-made phenomenon, for which the party-bureaucratic elite was responsible.

    Agree. Moreover, the first Law on Cooperatives was completely corrupt. They had to be created at enterprises, with the permission of their superiors. This is where the first cooperators came from - relatives or loyal people of the authorities.
    In the USSR, all supplies of raw materials were centralized and strictly regulated by enterprise. Moreover, if, for example, a factory had a plan to produce 1000 boots, it received raw materials specifically for the production of 1000 boots, no more and no less. Where did cooperatives suddenly get the raw materials for mass production of various goods? Factory directors simply gave their raw materials to a cooperator - a relative, and he produced his goods using state equipment. As a result: there were no goods at state prices, but supposedly “cooperative” goods appeared en masse, several times more expensive.
    There were still many options for bosses to enrich themselves. A country of inexhaustible opportunities... for certain categories of people.
  56. 0
    18 August 2019 12: 04
    The engineer writes:
    “In general, the collapse of a great country was inevitable...”

    The examples given are true and well known. But they are not unique to the USSR. China under Deng Xiao Ping is no better.

    However, the author, with a gulp of the inductive method (from the particular to the general), then conveys it as truth... “In general, the collapse of the great country was inevitable...”

    All objective shortcomings probably played some role in the collapse of the USSR.
    But power during the “catastrophe” revolved around Gorbachev.

    I believe that two character traits of a leader in a time of dramatic change lead to disaster: ADventURISM AND COWARDNESS.

    —-Changing something is always riskier for a leader than building it anew.
    —- Change, i.e. to break before you build any, requires action, skill and courage.
    —- Action without skill is adventurism.
    —- And cowardice is the antithesis of courage.


    Gorbachev was not an accomplished specialist in at least one area of ​​human activity (party work does not count).
    He was not, a priori and in fact, a courageous man.

    —-It is believed that the “disaster” was necessary.
    — It is believed that without her it would have been worse.
    —-For me, as an engineer, this is not provable.
    —-This is a matter of conviction, faith.

    I do not believe in this.
  57. +1
    18 August 2019 17: 33
    Party nomenclature, that says it all. They lived in another state, in capitalism, and then they legalized it...
  58. 0
    18 August 2019 17: 57
    Quote: Mestny
    The reason for the collapse of any country is its structure, which allows mediocrity to get to the top of power.
    Because people are at the top of power, their qualities are the result of the system.

    It is truth too!
  59. +1
    19 August 2019 08: 48
    I agree with the author based on similar life experiences.
  60. -1
    19 August 2019 09: 18
    The collapse of the USSR was the second catastrophe in the history of Russia in the 2019th century. The collapse of the Russian Empire should not be forgotten. Most likely, there were resonant oscillations before, but the enormity of Russia somehow managed to dampen them. It didn’t work out in the XNUMXth century. Twice in a century Russia failed to cope with the challenges of civilization and collapsed. Now Russia is again in open conflict with the West. How will this turn out for Russia in XNUMX?

    What do you think, isn’t the reason for the collapse of the USSR the fact that it (the Union) fulfilled its purpose?
    He developed mineral deposits and raised the “Soviet” people. A very specific “ethnic group”. With low material requirements, very passive to the “flaws” of power, more accustomed to the whip than to the carrot, and also fell into severe alcohol addiction (hello to Venechka Vrofeev).
    1. -1
      19 August 2019 12: 57
      Quote: verp19
      The collapse of the USSR was the second catastrophe in the history of Russia in the XNUMXth century. The collapse of the Russian Empire should not be forgotten.

      The Russian catastrophe occurred after the February revolution. The USSR is no longer Russia.
      1. +1
        19 August 2019 13: 12
        S.S.S.R. is the Russian Empire.
  61. 0
    19 August 2019 13: 10
    This corn farmer pooped everything. It’s a pity that our marshals allowed this collective farmer to come to power.
  62. 0
    19 August 2019 14: 52
    Been through it all.
    But what was written, to put it more precisely, is scholasticism.
    Yes Yes exactly.
    Remember the name of the sensational film: "...fifty shades of gray...", and here - a little white, a little black... something written by someone earlier.
    Completely empty.
    If someone who doesn’t know reads it, then there will be nothing left in their head except “crap”, is this what the article was written for?
  63. +1
    19 August 2019 16: 58
    The reason for the collapse of the USSR and other socialist countries is their people, their peoples. They destroyed their power with their own hands. From the worker and peasant to the CPSU and its leaders and the General Secretary himself. They thought we were very smart and capable, but socialism was preventing us from living. If there is capitalism, everything will be like in the West.
    Because the USSR is a people's state, a real democratic state, and if the people want capitalism, so it will be - the state machine was unprepared and unable to suppress its people, as this always happens in capitalist states. Therefore, only in socialist countries is the so-called “velvet revolution” possible, when a change of system occurs peacefully through elections.
    Everyone knew that such a restoration of capitalism was possible - Stalin wrote about this back in the 30s. That this will pass through the leading party is nothing new.
    That socialism can be preserved and move forward successfully is clear to everyone - China, Korea, Vietnam and Cuba are examples.
    Everything is clear about the restoration of capitalism. That socialism will be one way or another is not yet clear to everyone. Unfortunately for many, this understanding will come after a new imperialist war, as in October 1917, or after the Second World War, as happened in Bulgaria and a number of other countries.
  64. +1
    19 August 2019 21: 51
    “In the Soviet Union, the science of management was quite developed, but pushed farther away. It required periodic monitoring and the adoption of immediate measures, and the greater the deviation, the more stringent measures. It required the creation of a system of criticism as negative feedback. It required the selection of management personnel according to specific criteria. But according to it, the overwhelming majority of the top of the CPSU had to be removed."
    Complex topic. Yes and no.
    Yes, there were excesses and a lot of things that were not correct. This can be seen from above today. At the same time, the situation today is, to put it mildly, no better. Or rather even worse. I'm talking about industry and production. Here, as they say, there is something to compare with. Unfortunately, I didn’t see the Union very much, but nevertheless I saw it a little. And to put it mildly, the level of management with higher education is nothing at all.
    We have accepted two MASTERS in the spring! Their level is the same as after vocational school in those years when I studied.
    I tell them HOW and WHAT to do, WHERE and WHAT to take! This is nonsense really...
    1. 0
      21 August 2019 23: 06
      There is no ideal anywhere. But about personnel, I would say this: a demographic and personnel crisis. And it was generated 80% by the collapse of the USSR
  65. +1
    19 August 2019 23: 29
    Khrushchev is to blame - he brought the party members out of KGB control. So they began to do what they wanted.
  66. 0
    20 August 2019 13: 29
    Another cry from Yaroslavna. Oh, I was poorly entertained, but I am so good. If I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t have joined the Komsomol. Even better, I went to the Komsomol and began to change. All you need is for someone to do everything for you the way you want, but you yourself only know how to write articles.
  67. 0
    23 August 2019 16: 49
    Quote: Serg65
    Quote: WIKI
    And can you not skip from one topic to another?

    Why would I skip? To your numbers, I just suggested adding partakers and that's right! If you lived in the USSR, you would know perfectly well that a government official in the USSR without a party official is an empty place!

    If we add party functionaries to the past, we must add them today to the era of “multi-party democracies.” I think they will be no less.
  68. 0
    25 August 2019 19: 48
    In general, that’s how it is. This is best described in the book by M.S. Voslensky "Nomenclature":
    From the very beginning, the idea of ​​power, dictatorship, became a characteristic feature of the Soviet system in all its manifestations. Lenin defines the state as a bludgeon, as an instrument for creating a new, socialist society and a new man of the era of socialism. Generally speaking, this theory is based on the ideas of Marx, on his doctrine of productive forces and production relations as the basis not only of social structure, but also of human existence itself. However, Lenin's theory departs from the ideas of Marx as soon as it begins to consider revolution and power as the foundation of the Marxist doctrine - the “dictatorship of the proletariat”, and not the overcoming of the inhuman, oppressive living conditions of society. Having recognized the principle that power is the basis of everything in society, and having legitimized violence (Lenin defined dictatorship as power not limited by any laws), it was impossible to build anything other than a society in which the rulers - the party bureaucracy, the nomenklatura - turn into a privileged monopoly caste.
    Of course, Lenin considered this only a temporary form that disappears with the “withering away” of the state. And yet, already in 1918, Lenin, in a conversation with a workers’ delegation, spoke out in favor of party activists receiving additional food rations. So, along with power, privileges began to grow, but the state did not show any signs of “withering away”, but on the contrary, it became stronger.
    The fact is that the bureaucracy does not even think about limiting its privileges. On the contrary, it expands them and strengthens its dominance. This alone was enough for her to become a source of discontent.
    From its very inception, the Soviet system has shown deep hostility towards “alien” social groups within its own society and towards the outside world, towards any other system. The Soviet bureaucracy rejects everything that diverges from its flat ideology, claims, attitudes and practices. The Soviet system is embodied in the party bureaucracy. She views the world around her as a force hostile to her. With its system, the Soviet bureaucracy doomed itself to conspiratorial thinking and constant fear for its existence. The bureaucrats in power live outside of reality, under the yoke of ideas about some world hostile to them; they are convinced that everyone is out to attack them, and they do not trust anyone, even those in their own hierarchical circle.
    Such a system cannot be economically productive, and that is not its purpose. The goal of the system is power and domination over others. This is what its leaders, the party oligarchs, devote themselves to. The system is built on poverty and passivity; it depends on power.
  69. -1
    26 August 2019 14: 49
    Everything is spelled out. After inclusion in the job requirements in the reserve of leaders, abolished by Gorbachev, Komsomol party leaders, “he was a fool, became the secretary of the district committee,” a stream of privileged slackers began to flow into the upper echelons of power. While there were more ideological communists there was a Union, and then look at the assistant combine operator.
  70. 0
    27 August 2019 13: 38
    The main reason for the collapse of the USSR was censorship and dogmatism in science and culture; the state became an obstacle to the dissemination of the latest knowledge about the World and man. The ideals of communism were distorted and people's consciousness remained at a low level. Many were dissatisfied with socialism, so God gave people the opportunity to feel all the delights of capitalism, so that they had something to compare with...
    This is what the lack of ideology and ideals in the state leads to. Old ideas were destroyed, but new ones were not created. Why live? Earn more money?
    Meanwhile, there is an idea that can lead people. The authorities do not want to promote this idea...
    But whoever seeks will find. See the light - everyone
    svetra.ru
  71. -1
    28 August 2019 16: 05
    In many respects I agree with only one commentator. This is a depressant (Lyudmila Yakovlevna Kuznetsova). She highlighted the main thing. But there was also an anti-Russian orientation in the policy of the nomenklatura of that time. Imagine that all the republics of the USSR, except Russia and Belarus, were subsidized. That’s why there were “sausage trains” in Russia. The anti-Russian policy continues today. Do you see a lot of people changing their nationality to Russian not for the sake of profit? The state-forming people are the most powerless in the Russian Federation. And the poorest too. During the years of collapse, there was no living idea in the minds and there were no united and decisive defenders of the Motherland. And the last front-line soldiers to leave spoke directly. that an act of treason is being committed. The only one in the Supreme Council of the USSR was Sazhi Umalatova. Everyone else smiled at this! But the Russian people remained silent, because for a long time since the Khrushchev era the state had become increasingly anti-Russian.