The media said that the lithium-ion battery caught fire in the deep-sea AC-31

The Petersburg edition of Fontanka.ru published a publication on the topic of a fire on the Russian deep-water submarine AC-31, which (fire) occurred in early July in the Barents Sea. The term “voluminous fire” is used with reference to information from condolences from representatives of the command of a military unit.

The author of the material on the portal "Fontanka" claims that the commission to establish the causes of the fire on board the deep-water apparatus allegedly called “short circuit, thermal acceleration and explosion lithium battery". At the same time, the question of the expediency of using lithium-ion batteries on deep-sea vehicles is discussed. The problem is in maintaining the safe operating parameters of such batteries under high pressure.

Earlier in his report, the head of the Ministry of Defense reported to the president that a fire had arisen in the battery compartment.

On the mentioned site it is noted that the partner of "Malachite" is the battery pack "Rigel". Attempts to create a suitable safety level of lithium-ion batteries for deep-water vehicles have been actively undertaken over the past five years. At the same time, the aforementioned company, as Fontanka writes, reports that it has already achieved success in this area in the 2007 year.

The site contains data on several contracts with the Rigel company, among which there is a contract for the development of a lithium-ion battery. Whether this battery was installed on the AC-31 is not officially reported.

At the same time, “Fontanka” notes that one of the former members of the company's management considered it impossible to use such batteries on the deep-sea device AC-31 and others like him. The interlocutor of "Fontanka" said:

She has no place there, she does not need it.

Why on the "Fontanka" decided that the lithium-ion batteries from the "Riegel" installed on the AC-31, to put it mildly, is not entirely clear.

At the moment, an investigation into the causes of the fire on board the Losharik AC-31 is ongoing. The official results of the commission has not yet been published.

Previously "VO" published material from the burial site of the dead hydronauts, which the liberal media initially called "secret".

Comments

[Alexander Petrov1]

Duck, this news has long been in the media, immediately after the accident, that "new batteries were delivered on July 3, 2019 caught fire and led to an accident."

[Alexander Petrov1]

On the phones, the batteries explode and cause injuries and fires in the houses, and then an atomic boat ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Alexander Petrov1

On the phones, the batteries explode and cause injuries and fires in the houses, and then an atomic boat ...

And from which phone did you install the batteries on "Losharik"? What do you even know about which batteries are there? The deceitful portal "Fontanka" pulled out this fake from some hole of its own, and then they began to suck it in all seriousness.

[Alexander Petrov1]

But the Moscow Region didn’t confirm that the fire started in the battery compartment.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Alexander Petrov1

But the Moscow Region didn’t confirm that the fire started in the battery compartment.

As always in the media - "an anonymous source in the Moscow region, who wished to remain anonymous"? Are there any conclusions of the commission based on the results of the investigation?

[Alexander Petrov1]

There will be conclusions, but they may not provide us with sensitive information.

[Zdishek]

In Russia, there is no production of lithium-ion batteries.
This is an indisputable fact.
Based on the modernization of Tu aircraft in Kazan, these are Chinese batteries. Question to those who signed the contract: you citizens have provided for the responsibility of the supplier?

[Alexander Petrov1]

But lithium phosphate is produced.

[region58]

Quote: Zdishek

In Russia, there is no production of lithium-ion batteries.

But NPO SSK, AK Rigel, NIIHIT, OJSC NIAI Source, OJSC Energy what are they doing? Liotech offers the same thing. So there is little little ...

[astepanov]

There was no reliable information about what really happened. But it is worth noting that lithium-ion batteries are in fact on the submarine, especially in
Japanese. But it’s painfully often there are conversations: maybe a throw-in, maybe - indeed, lithium-ion, a painfully attractive thing. Lithium-ion batteries do not and cannot have "thermal runaway". Thermal runaway is from a completely different opera, this phenomenon is inherent in nickel-cadmium batteries with a long charge with constant voltage. Most likely, there was an ordinary interelectrode short circuit in one of the cans, which provoked the boiling of the electrolyte, its ejection from the cell and the ignition of vapors. Further, the process spread to the entire battery.
It is difficult to say whether the Rigel company from St. Petersburg is involved in this battery. Liotech, a large company, the brainchild of Chubais, is also engaged in such batteries. Liotech has long been promoting its batteries for transport in general and for the fleet in particular: https://www.korabel.ru/news/comments/gryadet_litiy-ionnaya_revolyuciya_v_sudostroenii.html. And here: http: //patriotam.rf/litievye-batarei-dlya-podlodok-proshli-ispytaniya/ Meanwhile, electric buses with Liotech batteries already burned during tests, and it is strange that this "bell" did not react to the Navy, regardless of the one whose batteries were used: after all, both Liotech and Rigel use the same electrochemical system, the negative electrode is carbon, the positive one is based on iron phosphate.
It is surprising that he did not learn anything and the fire of such a battery on the American ASDS apparatus in November 2008, when the inside of the submarine completely burned out, and the program, which invested billions, was stopped.
I think it's worth noting that Russian manufacturers of li-ion work on imported active materials and (partly) components, that their "series" began recently and production volumes are small, and therefore there is no reliable statistics on failures. How it was possible in such conditions to put it on a submarine - I don't understand.

[From Siberia we]

internal short circuit is one of the main causes of battery self-ignition. The cause of the short circuit itself may be physical damage or factory defects, such as uneven cutting of the electrodes or the ingress of metal particles between the cathode and anode, which violate the integrity of the separator layer.

Another reason for the closure is the growth of lithium metal chains through the separator (if the lithium ions at the factory did not have time to fully integrate into the anode crystal due to excessively fast charging or from overcooling, or if the capacity of the cathode active material is larger than the capacity of the anode, which leads to deposits on the anode, which then slowly but inexorably grow).

So, if a short circuit occurred, then the battery temperature starts to rise, and when it reaches 70-90 ° C, the decomposition of the protective ion-conducting layer of the anode begins. The lithium anode reacts with an electrolyte, and combustible hydrocarbons, such as ethylene, methane, ethane, etc. are released. But it is too early before the fire, because there is not enough oxygen.

Meanwhile, the exothermic reaction is on and the temperature rises, the pressure inside the battery case rises. At 180-200 ° C, the disproportionation reaction begins at the cathode, where oxygen is released. Ignition occurs, the temperature rises sharply, and the electrolyte decomposes thermally, the temperature is already 200-300 ° C.

Finally, it is the turn of graphite, and when the temperature reaches 660 ° C, the aluminum of the current collector begins to melt. The maximum temperature in this whole process usually does not have time to exceed 900 ° C, since everything quickly ends with the complete decomposition of the internal components of the battery.

[astepanov]

And you, an hour, not with Liotech? Your comment gives a real acquaintance with technology.

[From Siberia we]

fortunately not, but I tried to figure it out in my personal interests. Compact batteries in the first place burned very well, but had decent capacity with small dimensions. So the question arose what is the reason. Today, Japan is ahead of the planet in these technologies.

[astepanov]

Actually, there are a lot of inaccuracies in your description. But in principle, this does not change anything.

[Grigory b]

Quote: From Siberia we

internal short circuit is one of the main causes of battery self-ignition.

In principle, all the reasons are indicated correctly, I would like to add that accidents with AB often occurred with a high load current and a weak contact connection. It's hard to believe that "lithium-ion" ones were installed there, on such a submarine from the state, I think there were enough funds for the "silver-zinc".

[astepanov]

Silver-zinc batteries have a small resource, and in specific energy they are much inferior to lithium-ion ones. Silver consumption is very high in them: at least 3 kg per 1 kWh. So the price is oh-oh-what-what. And when charged, hydrogen is released. Be healthy. Self-discharge is also considerable. They are put on torpedoes - dry-charged, the electrolyte is poured before launch.

[vladcub]

Actually, it's better to wait for the official conclusions, but as a preliminary version: "Li-ion battery fire" is plausible.
In fact, shipbuilders have a limited choice: lithium-peace or nickel-cadmium batteries, and "Rigel" or "Liotech" depends on imported components. I bet 10 to 1 that from China is cheap, and business is not always of high quality

[Kasym]

Svyatoslav, this RBC reported that "a very expensive, worth its weight in gold, silver-zinc battery was replaced with a much cheaper lithium-ion battery."
At the time of the Union, silver-zinc batteries were on planes. The case was in one regiment. Dembel from the guard company whistled such a battery from the fighter. The noise stood up to heaven.

[vladcub]

Who was given in the ass ?. They actually disabled a combat aircraft. In the 30s of this case, such a thing would be blinded, that ..

[Kasym]

Hush up the case, tk. those had to return the "acquisition". Any commander has no desire to shine such a thing. But in the regiment, of course, everyone knew.
They "whistled" from an airplane that was on alert.

[svp67]

In order to find out what caught fire there, it would probably not hurt to find out what kind of civilian specialist was on the device at that moment

[Bumblebee_3]

svp67 (Sergey)
Yeah! Precisely, you need to post in the public domain the name, civilian specialist, his home address, his position. A pin number is also desirable. Have you come up with anything else? The cause of the accident on the AC-31, should know only a narrow circle of developers and manufacturers of this product! Those, in turn, must take measures to prevent this from happening! And for the media, the version that the AS-31 was chasing a UFO may also be suitable!

[svp67]

Quote: Bumblebee_3

Yeah! Precisely, you need to post in the public domain the name, civilian specialist, his home address, his position.

All information on the work carried out is in the public domain, so that having learned from where the specialist was, without a full name, home address and position, and the name of the company, it would be possible to understand what was installed on the device

[Bumblebee_3]

svp67 (Sergey)
This is bad! What information about a secret product, its tasks, in the public domain! Don't you think so?

[svp67]

Quote: Bumblebee_3

What information about a secret product, its tasks, in the public domain! Don't you think so?

These are the realities

[vladcub]

Bumblebee, you +: they rightly said: "and for the media, the version that the AS-31 was chasing a UFO may also suit." Reporters gobble up any nonsense, and there are such channels as TV-3 or RenTV which adore all mysticism. They will start to say this: "Curse of Poseidon."

[Piramidon]

Quote: svp67

what kind of civilian specialist was at that moment on the device

Are all civilians agents of the CIA and Mossad?

[Invoce]

Quote: svp67

In order to find out why it caught fire apparently it would not hurt to find out what kind of civilian specialist was at that moment on the device

Who would do well to find out? Who needs - they know!

[evgen1221]

It is possible that the object of research had a charge in case of extraction, hence the civilian special rescued in the first place.

[svp67]

Quote: evgen1221

It is possible that the object of research had a charge in case of extraction, hence the civilian special rescued in the first place.

In such a situation, he is generally superfluous, he has no means of salvation and in general, this is not his business, the struggle for survivability

[Corsair71 (Anatoly)]

If we take the merchant fleet as an example, then there is a means of salvation for everyone on the ship. Or must be. Here the Navy and this issue is much more serious. But in the struggle for survivability, he, a specialist, is not scheduled. The briefing and training on the use of individual and collective rescue equipment, as it is on the merchant fleet, must pass, I argue.

[iouris]

In fact, the question is interesting. "Acid" (lead) storage batteries, of course, are archaic today, but their production technologies are well adapted to operating conditions. As for the new types of rechargeable batteries, everything is not clear here. The introduction of lithium-ion batteries into Soviet technology, in particular, can lead to serious consequences, because a "domestic manufacturer" is likely to buy basic elements abroad with all the ensuing consequences. For the production of reliable equipment, large production volumes are required, because only a large volume of sales indicates a high quality of goods.

[astepanov]

Quote: iouris

only a large sales volume indicates the high quality of the goods.

Yes Yes. Our Protons have a large sales volume. And the S-400 ...

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: svp67

In order to find out what caught fire there, it would probably not hurt to find out what kind of civilian specialist was on the device at that moment

Civil experts are often at the facility. The crew is instructed in the specific conditions of handling equipment, new or modernized, engaged in adjustments, all kinds of research cases to develop proposals for modernization ..... Much less often they are not on board.

[Berkut24]

The problem is to maintain safe operation parameters of such batteries under high pressure conditions.

"Fontanka" is still an oppositional nonsense. If journalists taught physics, they might guess that the air pressure inside the submarine is the same as in their office.

[voyaka uh]

And what about Losharik himself? Was he raised to a uterine submarine or flooded?
They wrote that a submarine surfaced, and there were pictures. But this is a large submarine carrier Losharika.

[yehat]

Losharik - these are 3 boats. in fact, a set of balls of the inner hull, which was called the losharik, the outer hull and the trailed bowl

[voyaka uh]

I did not understand.
Here is a drawing diagram. What are the three boats?

[yehat]

I meant that the boat has 2 hulls

[voyaka uh]

So this nuclear mini-boat AS-12 was saved after a fire or flooded,
so as not to jerk the reactor?

[yehat]

there was only 1 shallow losharik at shallow depth
a fire broke out, the boat urgently surfaced and went to base
fish and fishermen watched it

[voyaka uh]

Ah, got it. Thank.

[Piramidon]

Quote: yehat

I meant that the boat has 2 hulls

Any submarine has at least two hulls - lightweight and durable. On "Losharik" the robust body consists of several spherical compartments.

[yehat]

the monstrous heritage of the USSR, a boat, a killer that kills everyone in direct view of Smeshariki

[Errr]

According to Shoigu, Losharik’s nuclear power plant was not affected, and the submarine itself will be repaired as soon as possible.

[yehat]

Quote: yehat

I meant that the boat has 2 hulls

but there was only a small losharik without a carrier

[knn54]

On November 9, 2008, the ASDS mini-submarine (for special forces), which was jointly operated by the Navy and the MTR Command, was charging the battery at a special station on the territory of the Pearl Harbor naval base. Suddenly there was an explosion, after which there was a strong fire, which, as the American media wrote, was put out in six hours.
There were no casualties, because there was no one close. The reason is "lithium bomb". The LIABs were outside the hull, in a titanium container. But the "object" burned to the ground.
And one can only imagine the consequences if this happened when the mini-submarine was on board the carrier-nuclear submarine "Michigan" ..

[yehat]

Quote: iouris

The production of reliable equipment requires large volumes of production, as only a large sales volume indicates the high quality of the goods.

there used to be a lithium plant in Kazakhstan and it seemed to have a major chemical accident
Now he is a China supplier.

[iouris]

China is a huge volume of production. In Novosibirsk, a woman in the 1990s developed a fundamentally new technology for the production of rechargeable batteries. When she reported the results at a conference in Canada, there was a sensation. Most likely, the results leaked to China.

[bald]

It’s bad that I’m not investigating, and you too.

[APASUS]

The material is completely closed to ignition of the Rigel AC-31 lithium-ion batteries and generally not a word about the reasons for the failure of the fire system.
Yes, how is that? After all, the point is precisely in the complex of reasons for which the peasants beat?

[Grits]

В The media said that a deep-sea AC-31 lit a lithium-ion battery.
The title of the article cuts the ear for a Russian person if he knows what the acronym stands for. Nuclear Power Plant. So it should sound right - to deep seaой AC-31

[pafegosoff]

And not just another smartphone and electric car is burning with lithium fire ...