Military Review

American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

467
The abnormal situation calls into question the first launch of the American SpaceX Spacecraft Crew Dragon. His first test flight with the crew was to take place at the end of this year.


American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

Crew Dragon removed from the water after the flight to the ISS

NASA and the private space corporation SpaceX, owned by Ilon Mask, reported an “anomaly” that arose during the static fire tests of the emergency engines of the Crew Dragon, which should replace the Russian Soyuz in sending US astronauts into orbit. Tests replacement "Union" were failed.

What happened and how great are the consequences?

Today, on April 21, Space conducted a series of verification tests for Crew Dragon's emergency engines in the 1 landing zone at Cape Canaveral, Florida. Initially, everything was in order, but the last check led to the identification of anomalies on the test bench

quotes a statement from a company representative company representative SpaceNews resource. Previously, this problem calls into question the conduct of a Crew Dragon test flight with the crew at the end of this year.

What exactly is the "anomaly", the press service did not report.

It is imperative that our systems meet stringent safety standards, and the detection of such problems before the flight is the main reason for which we are testing. Our teams investigate and work closely with our partners from NASA.

A SpaceX representative added.

Eyewitnesses on the beaches near Cape Canaveral reported that they saw at noon puffs of dark smoke near the BBC facility. 45-e space wing of the US Air Force, operating the base itself, confirmed that during the test an incident occurred, in which no one was injured.

SpaceX does not disclose which Crew Dragon vehicle was used for this test. Sources, however, say that, most likely, it was a spaceship that completed the successful mission of the “Demo 1” in March. Crew Dragon then managed to successfully dock with the International Space Station. At the end of the five-day mission, he splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Florida. Now, apparently, the ship is lost or received severe damage.

What exactly is broken?

Previously, a problem arose during testing of SuperDraco engines. These installations, in the amount of eight pieces, should be used as part of the Crew Dragon rescue system. The SuperDraco combustion chamber is formed by Inconel 3D printing from a high-strength alloy.


Bench tests of engines SuperDraco, not yet installed on Crew Dragon

SuperDraco is based on a self-combustible mixture of monomethylhydrazine (fuel) and diazot tetraoxide (oxidizer). The design of the power plant and the fuel used in it make it possible to achieve a high degree of reliability. Each SuperDraco engine is capable of generating thrust near 73 kN with a specific impulse 235. To increase the reliability of the Crew Dragon, their power will be reduced to 68 kN.

SpaceX planned to re-use the spacecraft during an in-flight failure test, when the spacecraft launches SuperDraco engines during peak aerodynamic pressure after launch, removing it from the Falcon 9 accelerator. It was expected that the tests will be held in the summer.

Any delay in testing the system redefines the mission of Demo-2, whose flight with NASA astronauts Bob Benken and Doug Hurley on board was scheduled to take place in July, but in the end was postponed to the autumn of 2019. With the current failure to test, the licensing period for permanent flights to the ISS will be again postponed.

Crew Dragon is considered by the US National Aerospace Agency as the main replacement for the Russian Soyuz spacecraft in the missions of American astronaut delivery to the International Space Station.
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  1. 777-3-59-97
    777-3-59-97 April 21 2019 10: 44 New
    +19
    American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

    As always, a loud headline does not match the description of the news.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 April 21 2019 10: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: maxim947
        Crew Dragon is considered by the US National Aerospace Agency as the main replacement for the Russian Soyuz spacecraft in the missions of American astronaut delivery to the International Space Station.

        It means that an indefinite time will continue to be considered. yes
        And in Roscosmos, the issue of raising the price of its engines is being considered. lol
        1. Infinity
          Infinity April 21 2019 12: 23 New
          +14
          I don’t know why, but the article incorrectly states
          His first test flight with the crew was supposed to take place at the end of this year.

          As if at the end of the year, the third flight with four people should take place, the first flight with two people SpaceX Demo 2 (he is the second test, but the first with people) - August. The author could google it all before publishing.

          Questions to the title. Did you fail the test? I’m used to the fact that a complete (or large) technical mismatch of the product of those is called a test failure. assignment and declared characteristics. What do we have here? Malfunction of the SAS engine, which is most likely from the category of "childhood diseases". And they have any complex equipment, and there are many of them usually. Moreover, it’s good that they found. For this, tests and checks are needed.. Including unmanned launch in March (SpaceX Demo 1). We’ve got it, Soyuz-1 with Komarov died due to the dampness of the spacecraft, because they were in a hurry (as they say, by a beautiful date)! Safety comes first!
          1. Infinity
            Infinity April 21 2019 12: 55 New
            -4
            Quote: Infinity
            As if at the end of the year, the third flight with four people should take place, the first
            More precisely how. A couple of weeks ago, there were rumors about the transfer of spaceX Demo 2 to November, but they have not yet been confirmed and are scheduled for the summer.
            However, it is quite possible that they will bear it. But then it will be necessary to write.
          2. core
            core April 21 2019 22: 16 New
            +9
            you would have covered your mouth for a beautiful date, and the Apollo crew for what a beautiful date burned alive. and the Challenger at what date exploded, and Colombia at what date did not land? It is already clear to all normal people that Max's toys are a big American drank dough. main topic. see how everything is cheap with him, so let’s you lower prices too. neither of which works, because behind his back he has no one but a couple of design studios. and only faithful hamsters of ilan believe in the messiah.
            1. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn April 22 2019 11: 06 New
              +3
              Quote: core
              because behind him he has no one

              Rivalry in space technology is a strategic article. Therefore, it seems to me that it is unlikely to be at the State Department or the Pentagon to believe that Mask is behind him, at least it is unlikely. As well as assistance through shadow schemes with coordination, development and complex issues, which, whatever one may say, cannot be solved by the forces of one private agency within the borders of one country.
              Musk is not only a business project, it is also a big question of prestige and the propaganda of everything American.
          3. Zveruga
            Zveruga April 22 2019 05: 51 New
            +1
            And they have got two Shuttles burned people.
        2. topear
          topear April 21 2019 19: 37 New
          -3
          Early rejoice! These are ordinary trials and not a failure yet! Find out the reason, fix it! And then the trampoline will work! Roscosmos will have to cut prices.
          1. smart ass
            smart ass April 21 2019 22: 14 New
            -2
            I've always been for the mask of Ilona, ​​a great man and he will achieve his. Russia would have more such people
            1. macgyver
              macgyver April 22 2019 10: 06 New
              +7
              Mavrodi alone was enough for us ... somewhere else?
            2. vindigo
              vindigo April 22 2019 10: 52 New
              +2
              We must give him his due, man is really passionate about space. There is money, there is no need to solve pressing problems, now you can fulfill the dream of life.
              1. bk316
                bk316 April 22 2019 18: 42 New
                +2
                There is money, there is no need to solve pressing problems,

                Still as it should, for other businesses problems. Because of Tesla, I almost went to jail, and after all I just shook the action with a tweeter, but I just decided to pinch the suckers on a little and immediately a criminal laughing And then COSMOS, you can arrange a huge scam, or you can go down in history as Gagarin. What exactly Musk will choose, we will learn in 10-15 years.
                But I am sure that the laurels of the author of the first manned flight to Mars are not shining for him.
                I’m sure not even because I consider him a scoundrel, but because to go to him like a minefield: one or two disasters in manned mode and there is no Mask.
          2. The popuas
            The popuas April 22 2019 07: 26 New
            +1
            You see, ANOMALY is not a childhood disease. lol
      2. asiat_61
        asiat_61 April 21 2019 10: 58 New
        +6
        b, we all choose the concept ...
        ... It turns out that if we don’t launch a new ship every day, then we don’t do anything. And the head, you eat it?
        1. maxim947
          maxim947 April 21 2019 11: 14 New
          -3
          I do not gloat, but facts are a stubborn thing, and they should be perceived as a challenge, not blotted out by projections.
          PS
          And the head, you eat it?
          you better understand yours first, so that you can at least understand.
          1. Rostislav
            Rostislav April 21 2019 12: 18 New
            0
            Reread (or read) "Dog Heart", maybe Sharikov’s statements will help you understand this expression
    2. Engineer Schukin
      Engineer Schukin April 21 2019 11: 12 New
      -22
      well - seizing
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 April 21 2019 11: 28 New
        +27
        How does the local pro-Western on the site get rid of criticism of their vaunted dragon. Cons fly away from them like poplar fluff. But the pipes! Our engine is still better than yours, try to catch up! yes
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara April 21 2019 11: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: SRC P-15
          How does the local pro-Western on the site get rid of criticism of their vaunted dragon. Cons fly away from them like poplar fluff. But the pipes! Our engine is still better than yours, try to catch up! yes

          I’m afraid that those whom you call pro-Western are more patriots than you, they’re just realists and they say that they see, not fantasize
          1. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 April 21 2019 11: 51 New
            +19
            Quote: Vol4ara
            I’m afraid that those whom you call pro-Western are more patriots than you, they’re just realists and they say that they see, not fantasize

            Well, what do they see? So far, we see another failure of the Americans and our Russian RD-180 standing like a pillar. And this is not a fantasy, but a clear example of the impossibility of states to build about the same engine. I can imagine what would happen if everything happened the other way around. yes
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara April 21 2019 13: 41 New
              +15
              Quote: SRC P-15
              Quote: Vol4ara
              I’m afraid that those whom you call pro-Western are more patriots than you, they’re just realists and they say that they see, not fantasize

              Well, what do they see? So far, we see another failure of the Americans and our Russian RD-180 standing like a pillar. And this is not a fantasy, but a clear example of the impossibility of states to build about the same engine. I can imagine what would happen if everything happened the other way around. yes

              I am not interested in the failures of the Americans; I am interested in the successes of the Russian Federation.
            2. prodd
              prodd April 21 2019 14: 13 New
              +6
              In 2018, RD 180 flew five times, when only merlins to Falcon 9 flew about 20 times, this is without dozens of other launches of other missiles, which pillars are you talking about? Just a small percentage of American missiles flies on rd180
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 21 2019 17: 36 New
                +5
                Quote: prodd
                In 2018, RD 180 flew five times, when only Merlin Falcon 9 flew about 20 times

                The number of starts depends on demand, not supply. The fact that Americans are forced to use our technology does not speak in their favor.
                1. prodd
                  prodd April 21 2019 20: 30 New
                  +7
                  The number of American starts on rd180 is less than 10%, Americans are not forced to do anything, if in Germany they sold a couple of hundred Lada West, this does not mean that Nemtsov is not doing well with the automotive industry
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac April 21 2019 23: 18 New
                    +2
                    Quote: prodd
                    The number of American launches on rd180 is less than 10%, Americans are not forced to

                    Were not forced - would not buy.
                    And no one claimed that American rockets fly into space only on RD180.
                  2. sogdy
                    sogdy April 22 2019 10: 11 New
                    +4
                    Quote: prodd
                    The number of American starts at rd180 is less than 10%, Americans are not forced to

                    Just a small table: on what, what (cost, necessity), where. Especially beautiful - where.
                    Well, no amers have controls on the rocket engine. And a problem with fuel, which, again, reduces the possibility of creating control. It burns out, despite all the dances with tambourines.
                  3. tsvetkov1274
                    tsvetkov1274 April 22 2019 13: 48 New
                    +1
                    Niva take more .. hi
                2. Simargl
                  Simargl April 22 2019 03: 39 New
                  -6
                  Quote: Setrac
                  The fact that Americans are forced to use our technology does not speak in their favor.
                  Forced? Less than 20% of launches are so-so-forced.
                  1. Zveruga
                    Zveruga April 22 2019 05: 56 New
                    +4
                    Everyone understands that the American NASA buys expensive launches from Musk for political reasons, and not because of profitability.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl April 22 2019 08: 11 New
                      0
                      Quote: Zveruga
                      Musk’s expensive launches from a political principle
                      Cheaper than the Union and Proton.
                      Cheaper Atlas-5.
                      Horror!
                      And what does everyone understand?
                  2. Setrac
                    Setrac April 22 2019 20: 52 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Forced? Less than 20% of launches are so-so-forced.

                    20% is how much to fuck.
                    For example, in articles about WWII, Lend-Lease - 5% of the military production of the USSR and all zapadents shout - they would not be able to do without Lend-Lease (TOTAL percent). And here, as much as 20% - yes, without us, the USA would not have astronautics - following the logic.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl April 22 2019 21: 23 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Setrac
                      For example, in articles about WWII, Lend-Lease - 5% of the military production of the USSR and all zapadents shout - they would not be able to do without Lend-Lease
                      So those who write like that about LL - they have it not 5%, but under 90! wassat
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac April 22 2019 22: 03 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Simargl
                        So those who write like that about LL - they have it not 5%, but under 90!

                        I have not heard such arrivals, even from zapadentsev. 5% - no one has yet disputed.
                      2. Simargl
                        Simargl April 23 2019 07: 11 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I have not heard such arrivals
                        Are the numbers important? After all, the Holocaust and Stalinist repression claimed a total of 2 sets of inhabitants of the Earth. All. 2 times.
                        And in fact?
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac April 23 2019 19: 26 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Are the numbers important?

                        Of course, they are important, given how the US role in defeating the Wehrmacht is publicized, and these numbers are small and insignificant.
                      4. Simargl
                        Simargl April 24 2019 06: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Certainly important
                        For the truth, yes. And for PR not involved?
                        Let me give you an example: the French resistance fought against the Nazis. Without numbers - French heroes. With figures showing the number of French in the Wehrmacht and resistance, the French are no longer quite heroes.
                      5. Setrac
                        Setrac April 24 2019 20: 41 New
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        For the truth, yes. And for PR not involved?
                        Let me give you an example: the French resistance fought against the Nazis. Without numbers - French heroes. With figures showing the number of French in the Wehrmacht and resistance, the French are no longer quite heroes.

                        Quote: Simargl
                        Are the numbers important? After all, the Holocaust and Stalinist repression claimed a total of 2 sets of inhabitants of the Earth. All. 2 times.
                        And in fact?

                        Be consistent and it will be like in the army - the punishment of the innocent and the rewarding of the uninvolved.
      2. jhltyjyjctw
        jhltyjyjctw April 21 2019 19: 47 New
        +4
        Why are they buying RD-180?
        1. prodd
          prodd April 21 2019 20: 26 New
          +3
          Because it is a great engine at a good price, the whole world rests on cooperation.
        2. macgyver
          macgyver April 22 2019 10: 08 New
          +2
          Another interesting thing is that they have been buying it for more than 20 years, they have already tried several times to copy it, but they could not.
          1. zlinn
            zlinn April 22 2019 18: 27 New
            0
            never tried. they have full documentation and a license for it. but why, for the production of hundreds of engines, cost and build an entire plant and pay American wages to workers?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 22 2019 20: 53 New
              +4
              Quote: zlinn
              never tried

              It is not good to deceive, even as we tried, there were several programs and all failed.
    3. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer April 22 2019 09: 18 New
      +6
      Quote: SRC P-15
      standing as a pillar of our Russian RD-180.


      Just do not forget that the “Russian” two-chamber RD-180 liquid propellant rocket engine is half of the Soviet four-chamber RD-170 rocket engine with a modified fuel pump and a pipeline system and power frame.
      They began to develop in 1976 (RD-170 - the Soviet liquid-propellant rocket engine developed by KB Energomash - the beginning of work in 1976).
      Halving the RD-170 is of course also a development, three to four times less labor costs compared to developing from scratch, since no fundamental design changes were made to the combustion chambers and nozzle — some optimization.
      In general, the range of engines from RD-170 is four-chamber RD-171, RD-171M, RD-171MV, two-chamber RD-180 and single-chamber RD-191. Very competent evolutionary development.
  2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
    Uncle Vanya Susanin April 21 2019 12: 02 New
    +12
    "... greater patriots than you, they are just realists ..." a great joke, you are, however, a noble comedian! good
  3. KOCMOC
    KOCMOC April 21 2019 12: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Vol4ara
    I am afraid that those whom you call pro-Western are more patriots than you

    Well, who argues, of course they are great patriots of Ameviki. Let the Mask rejoice at the successes, no one bothers them, let them build their own ships and fly to the ISS themselves, catch up with us in development. A reliable Union is quite enough for our tasks.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. lis-ik
    lis-ik April 21 2019 16: 35 New
    +8
    Quote: Vol4ara
    Quote: SRC P-15
    How does the local pro-Western on the site get rid of criticism of their vaunted dragon. Cons fly away from them like poplar fluff. But the pipes! Our engine is still better than yours, try to catch up! yes

    I’m afraid that those whom you call pro-Western are more patriots than you, they’re just realists and they say that they see, not fantasize

    I, too, am far from a Westernist, but I see that they are doing at least something new there, and only the "effective" managers are changing, the space program is still on the backbone of the USSR. Are we waiting for the new Korolev? We can’t wait, education and motivation is not the same.
    1. core
      core April 21 2019 22: 20 New
      +8
      we don’t have Korolev, but call me the American Korolev !?
    2. Vlad.by
      Vlad.by April 21 2019 23: 43 New
      +9
      The problem, in my opinion, is not in the "bad" Rogozin, but in the absence of the vital need to develop a manned space right now. At this stage, the Russian Federation has enough tools to launch all the required loads into space. As well as developments for increasing the displayed weight. But, there are no requests for a revolution in space right now.
      And there is no demand - there is no supply. The country has much more urgent tasks to solve. In the 50s, the presence or absence of ICBMs determined whether the country would survive or not. In aviation, we could not compete with the amers, in our country it was tailored to tactics by the will of fate, and they had a strategy. Competition with them in aviation delivery vehicles would definitely be lost, and this would most likely provoke them to a radical attempt to establish world domination. Korolev and his comrades solved the problem asymmetrically. Actually, the way Russia solves painful problems. At that time, it was the only economically affordable solution and it was found. Now, in short - not peppered. But it will be fine - there will be new Queens and Kurchatovs who will be supported by the new Stalin and Beria (after all, namely Beria ensured a breakthrough in both the atom and missiles). I believe that will be so.
      Moreover, according to the leaking information of the developments, that base that can turn into a critical mass that will “explode” with a new technical revolution is already a lot, maybe even already enough. There is no need and, therefore, there is no organizing principle that will bring these developments together and give a kick to development.
      The most interesting thing is that the Americans seem to know this and in every way prevent it.
      1. Simargl
        Simargl April 22 2019 08: 29 New
        -6
        Quote: Vlad.by
        But, there are no requests for a revolution in space right now.
        Here it is: it is not revolution that is needed, but evolution, when something new is invented, keeping up (even without being ahead of the curve) with time.
        And we have? With us, not amers! They do not care if we have evolution (at least), and not stagnation!
        And so - we envy and rejoice that the fading will come later.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 22 2019 21: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: Simargl
          And so - we envy and rejoice that the fading will come later.

          There is no extinction, there is a slowdown in growth, but other countries are in no hurry to overtake us.
          Quote: Simargl
          when something new is invented, keeping up (at least without being ahead) with time

          For example, a megawatt-class nuclear power plant?
          Quote: Simargl
          And we have? With us, not amers!

          And what about the amers? What is it in space to envy? They cannot build the ISS without Russia, they cannot send a person into space, and they are asking for help from Russia with the lunar orbital station. Compared to our stagnation, their degradation is continuous tears.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl April 22 2019 21: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            There is no extinction, there is a slowdown in growth, but other countries are in no hurry to overtake us.
            Height ?! Where is the growth? How many launch vehicles does Roskosmos use? Union? Proton almost bent. What about "friends"?
            Not in a hurry to overtake ... Australia or Uganda? Major competitors have already overtaken.

            Quote: Setrac
            For example, a megawatt-class nuclear power plant?
            She is much further than Dragon No. 2

            Quote: Setrac
            And what about the amers?
            Well, compare the number of missions. The Americans need us for exactly one thing: so that we do not agree with the Chinese!
            All! No more reason!
            The Chinese will squeeze us out and leave the Americans deep ... far away ...
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 22 2019 22: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Simargl
              Height ?! Where is the growth? How many launch vehicles does Roskosmos use?

              You are mistaken - because you think in "crocodiles". The number of launches is an economic indicator, and not an indicator of development and progress.
              Quote: Simargl
              Well, compare the number of missions.

              You compare kilometers and kilograms. The USA has more launches, but at the same time they cannot send a man into orbit or create his own orbital station without Russians.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl April 23 2019 07: 21 New
                -1
                Quote: Setrac
                The number of launches is an economic indicator, and not an indicator of development and progress.
                Number of launches is an economic indicator resulting from reliability and cost indicators. Cost is higher, reliability is reduced. As a result - orders flow away to more advanced in terms of development and progress.

                Quote: Setrac
                The USA has more launches, but at the same time they cannot send a man into orbit or create his own orbital station without Russians.
                So what?
                For starters - which %% ISS is Russian? How much was withdrawn by Russia for the construction of the ISS?
                Next - why ignore the awkward question about research missions?
                Why are you lying that Americans cannot? All of them can, but expensive.
                And - yes, they still cannot launch manned spacecraft. However, they already had a break of 6 years, and 8 will survive (rather 9).
                The thing is different: the Union has very large restrictions on anthropometry and the number of passengers, and the Federation is stuck - it had to be released almost simultaneously with the Dragon (cargo version, then manned).
              2. Setrac
                Setrac April 23 2019 19: 14 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Number of launches is an economic indicator resulting from reliability and cost indicators.

                A quantitative indicator follows from demand, and not from reliability and cost at all, the space services market is not a free market where everyone competes on an equal footing.
                Quote: Simargl
                For starters - which %% ISS is Russian?

                We are talking about technologies, Russian, without which the USA could not physically create the ISS. And as for the money, I will say this - hundreds of billions of dollars flow from Russia annually and they do not flow to Nigeria and Indonesia, but very much to the USA, this is our money too.
                Quote: Simargl
                The Federation was stuck - it had to be released almost simultaneously with the Dragon (cargo version, then manned).

                These are your conjectures - who owes what to whom, work is underway, the result will be enough to catch up and overtake America, let people work calmly.
              3. Simargl
                Simargl April 25 2019 14: 36 New
                -1
                Quote: Setrac
                A quantitative indicator follows from demand, and not from reliability and cost
                Well, let’s tell us how you choose a product: there are several things on the counter that differ in price, quality of finish, ergonomics, reliability. Which product do you choose? You will create demand, i.e. product parameters will affect the number of purchases.

                Quote: Setrac
                the space services market is not a free market where everyone competes on an equal footing.
                That was 20 years ago. Our sworn friends more than ours understand commerce and shove everything that is possible into the commercial sector (all that is possible is routine, in the form of cargo and manned launches). Unique things remain under NASA.

                Quote: Setrac
                We are talking about technologies, Russian, without which the USA could not physically create the ISS.
                They never said that “we can’t” - they said that it would be a little expensive (including because of the high cost of taking the shuttles out). They already knew that the Shuttle needed to be shut down. Colombia may have been killed on purpose (to close early).

                Quote: Setrac
                These are your speculations - who owes what to whom, work is underway, the result will be
                No, not my speculation. This was not expressed by me.

                Quote: Setrac
                enough to catch up and overtake America, let people work quietly
                I am for all limbs! In the same Federation, financing is straight even ...
              4. Setrac
                Setrac April 25 2019 18: 56 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Well, let’s tell us how you choose a product: there are several things on the counter that differ in price, quality of finish, ergonomics, reliability. Which product do you choose?

                However, you cannot buy a launch vehicle on the counter. Your comparison is not correct.
                Quote: Simargl
                That was 20 years ago.

                And there will always be, a free market is a myth.
                Quote: Simargl
                In the same Federation, financing is straight even ...

                This "federation" was given to you, directly an indicator of the work of Roscosmos.
              5. Simargl
                Simargl April 26 2019 00: 54 New
                -1
                Quote: Setrac
                However, you cannot buy a launch vehicle on the counter. Your comparison is not correct.
                How many countries are operators of commercial launches (ESA for one count)? Severe - three, medium four (or five), and ultralight? From the counter is not much different. The choice is great. The comparison is already correct. About 15-20 years old.

                Quote: Setrac
                And there will always be, a free market is a myth.
                What’s not free there? Any solvent camp has or may have a companion. And this satellite was launched by any operator suitable for that country. The market is almost as free as the arms market.

                Quote: Setrac
                This "federation" was given to you, directly an indicator of the work of Roscosmos.
                If this is the future of our space program ... yes, this is an indicator. Even for Russia, the Union is outdated. Yes, it is reliable. But cramped.
                Even the Chinese copied it "for growth."
              6. Setrac
                Setrac April 26 2019 21: 54 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                From the counter is not much different

                Yeah, the counter, and nearby, in the next department, they are selling nuclear weapons - but the free market! You are wrong.
                Quote: Simargl
                What’s not free there?

                Everything in it is not free - sanctions, customs, protectionism and so on.
                A free market is their free access to our sales market; they will let us into Western sales markets only as a last resort, if there is no way without us.
                Quote: Simargl
                If this is the future of our space program ... yes, this is an indicator.

                Not every project comes to operation, they can close it.
              7. Simargl
                Simargl April 27 2019 04: 14 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Yeah, the counter, and next, in the next department - they sell nuclear weapons
                Do not distort! AOs are not selling yet.
                But at the level of states and corporations, this is exactly what is happening.
                Even at the level of individuals: paid money - rolled.

                Quote: Setrac
                Everything in it is not free - sanctions, customs, protectionism and so on.
                With this, the problem is even at the level of fasteners, for example. Even in the ordinary market there is such a thing.
                The "counter" is one. Everyone attracts the buyer as he can ... if he can.

                Quote: Setrac
                if without us nothing.
                So the point is that there actively working on the problem, and we - sitting on the backlog of ancestors, folded legs. Forum competitors give?

                Quote: Setrac
                Not every project comes to operation, they can close it.
                What does this have to do with ?!
                The other day we will be bypassed as a service, but we do not move!
                AUUUU! They bypass us!
                Well no! We were bypassed at most points, there was practically no hurt.
                There is a Proton, which is still living, and the Union, which no one except us needs after the “partners” finish their KK.
              8. Setrac
                Setrac April 27 2019 12: 52 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Do not distort!

                And I don’t distort, I speak directly. There is no free market for rocket and space services.
                Quote: Simargl
                and we are sitting on the backlog of our ancestors, folded paws. We give odds to competitors?

                Work is underway on new launch vehicles, on a new ship, working on a megawatt-class nuclear power plant.
                "Affected ancestors" has long exhausted itself.
              9. Simargl
                Simargl April 27 2019 13: 39 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                There is no free market for rocket and space services.
                You want to say that having, say, $ 100 million, you can’t deploy a banner with your photo from your passport ?! Yes Easy! Also, arrange a competition - who is cheaper.

                Quote: Setrac
                Work is underway on new launch vehicles, on a new ship, working on a megawatt-class nuclear power plant.
                RN has been sawing for 20 years. A couple of starts and ... nothing.
                YA megawattnik is needed only for interplanetary flights. Even to the moon - he is dear.
                It has nothing to do with starting from the Earth’s surface: the same Union has a total of 20 MW.

                Quote: Setrac
                "Affected ancestors" has long exhausted itself.
                What am I talking about? We, in fact, have one launch vehicle in operation !!!
              10. Setrac
                Setrac April 27 2019 21: 21 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                You want to say that having, say, $ 100 million, you can’t deploy a banner with your photo from your passport ?!

                Meaningless demagogy, there are many billionaires in the world, but there is not a single banner of a photo from a passport.
                Quote: Simargl
                YA megawattnik is needed only for interplanetary flights. Even to the moon - he is dear.

                "Dear" - these are your fantasies. Expensive - fly on chemical energy, on nuclear - much cheaper.
                Quote: Simargl
                It has nothing to do with starting from the Earth’s surface: the same Union has a total of 20 MW.

                The Union puts 7.5 tons into low orbit, and only one and a half tons into geo-transition orbit.
                To assemble a lunar orbital station in terrestrial orbit and surpass it with a nuclear power plant is two orders of magnitude cheaper than to assemble it in orbit of the moon.
                As has always been the case in astronautics, Russians are working in the right direction, and Americans are fooling around.
                Quote: Simargl
                What am I talking about? We, in fact, have one launch vehicle in operation !!!

                A nuclear power plant is a key technology, we will have stations in the orbits of other planets and we will stop fooling around with assault rifles, which still will not replace a person.
              11. Simargl
                Simargl April 28 2019 03: 16 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                there are many billionaires in the world, but there is not a single banner of a photo from a passport.
                What about tourists?
                Satellites launch for private companies.
                You will learn that topic.

                Quote: Setrac
                Expensive - fly on chemical energy, on nuclear - much cheaper.
                Is it true ?! Learn the topic - then carry nonsense!

                Quote: Setrac
                To assemble a lunar orbital station in terrestrial orbit and surpass it with a nuclear power plant is two orders of magnitude cheaper than to assemble it in orbit of the moon.
                YaUMK will push this design with the NOU for years!

                Quote: Setrac
                A nuclear power plant is a key technology, we will have stations in the orbits of other planets and we will stop fooling around with assault rifles, which still will not replace a person.
                Yes, this nuclear power plant will not even appear in orbit with us until the superheavy appears! She weighs more than 30 tons.
              12. Setrac
                Setrac April 28 2019 11: 18 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Is it true ?! Learn the topic - then carry nonsense!

                This is you talking nonsense. Topic not studied.
                Quote: Simargl
                YaUMK will push this design with the NOU for years!

                You exaggerate greatly. Not years, but just days.
                Quote: Simargl
                Yes, this nuclear power plant will not even appear in orbit with us until the superheavy appears! She weighs more than 30 tons.

                There is a "proton", "hangar", "Yenisei" in development. Given that we do not need them right now, but in ten years - there is time.
                In addition, do not forget that the Moon will be mastered by the whole world, ALL heavy vehicles will be used, and ours, and American and Chinese, and will still be missed.
              13. Simargl
                Simargl April 28 2019 12: 20 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                There is a "proton", "hangar", "Yenisei" in development. Given that we do not need them right now, but in ten years - there is time.
                Uppercase names are capitalized.
                There is almost no proton (the last launch has already been indicated), the Angara is conditional (two test launches, the workers are only planned at a very sluggish pace), the Yenisei ... even further than the Angara.
                Declare a mass of only 7 tons ...
                + payload ...

                Quote: Setrac
                You exaggerate greatly. Not years, but just days.
                thirty? 30? 60?
                Along a "long" trajectory (like a "jumper" was thrown), one can fly in chemistry. In short (as the Apollo flew) the nuclear power plant does not push out - there will not be enough traction.

                Quote: Setrac
                This is you talking nonsense. Topic not studied.
                Are we about flying to the moon? Then everything is correct: nobody will use YaUMK - it is expensive and stupid. Traction megawatt - no more than 50 N, if that. Compare with chemistry.
              14. Setrac
                Setrac April 28 2019 14: 35 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                There is almost no proton (the last launch has already been indicated), the Angara is conditional (two test launches, the workers are only planned at a very sluggish pace), the Yenisei ... even further than the Angara.

                These are your fantasies.
                Quote: Simargl
                thirty? 30? 60?

                Why are those Sixtillon? Will the paper endure everything? Any of your stupid nitpicking?
                Quote: Simargl
                Traction megawatt - no more than 50 N, if that. Compare with chemistry.

                But the impulse is orders of magnitude greater, on the principle of "quieter ride - you will continue."
                In chemistry, we cannot even master the moon.
                Quote: Simargl
                Uppercase names are capitalized.

                A proton is a particle, a hangar is a building, Yenisei is a character in Pushkin's fairy tale!
              15. Setrac
                Setrac April 28 2019 14: 45 New
                0
                The nuclear generator itself weighs only 7 tons, and 50N is for ion engines; for electric rocket engines, the indicators will be completely different.
                The engine you described with a 50N thrust worked from a 3kW power source
              16. Simargl
                Simargl April 30 2019 00: 41 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                These are your fantasies.
                These are the facts! Protons are no longer being laid, the load under them has already been painted.
                The hangar with the payload did not fly.
                Yenisei only on paper and, perhaps, individual components in the work and this is only for a test flight.
                So these are not my fantasies, but data! Humble yourself.

                Quote: Setrac
                But the momentum is orders of magnitude greater
                What's the point? For example, he will not help take off from the Earth. Where can I get a speed increment of 3,3 km / s?
                At the NOO, the speed of the station is about 7,9 km / s, to fly to the moon you need at least 11,2 km / s. Where can I get these 3,3 km / s? 5 kg ion engine thrust?
                Remember, and possibly write down: for a flight to another celestial body, if there is a time limit, to accelerate to a second cosmic speed, chemical engines will be used.
                An ion engine is needed to further reduce flight time.
                There is no sense in using an ion engine to fly to the moon - there and in chemistry for 4 days fly according to a short scheme.

                Quote: Setrac
                In chemistry, we cannot even master the moon.
                Be careful with this statement. We cannot overpower something until there is no commercial interest. As soon as the "sleepwalkers" find "hundreds of oil" - democracy will come to them very quickly!

                Quote: Setrac
                the hangar is a building, the Yenisei is a character in Pushkin's fairy tale!
                Angara is a river, and the prince was called EлIsey! fool

                Quote: Setrac
                50H is for ion engines; for electric rocket engines, the indicators will be completely different.
                Gee! It’s ridiculous. Now they are testing an ion engine with a power of 35 kW, its thrust is about 0,7 N.
                The ion engine is a special case of electric rocket.
                Quote: Setrac
                The engine you described with a 50N thrust worked from a 3kW power source
                with such power - a small nuance: 50мH and м - not mega at all tongue
              17. Setrac
                Setrac April 30 2019 17: 39 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Ion engine

                Do not go in cycles in ion engines.
                Quote: Simargl
                The ion engine is a special case of electric rocket.

                That's not true.
                Quote: Simargl
                The hangar with the payload did not fly.

                will fly
                Quote: Simargl
                Yenisei only on paper

                will build
                Quote: Simargl
                What's the point? For example, he will not help take off from the Earth.

                Correctly spelling “can’t”, take off on conventional rockets.
                Quote: Simargl
                Angara River

                What are you saying? Well, who would have thought?
              18. Simargl
                Simargl April 30 2019 20: 36 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                That's not true.
                Learn the mat. part.

                Quote: Setrac
                will fly
                .
                will build
                That's when they fly - then we'll talk. And now Angara, not to mention the Yenisei, is at the Dragon-2 stage: he flew, but only in a test version.

                Quote: Setrac
                Correctly spelling “can’t”, take off on conventional rockets.
                Writing correctly will not help: his thrust is vanishingly small, not only for separation from the Earth’s surface, but even in comparison with the errors in the thrust of chemical engines.

                Quote: Setrac
                What are you saying?
                More airline lol
              19. Setrac
                Setrac April 30 2019 22: 56 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Learn the mat. part.

                A pointless argument about terms, so any engine can be called electric, for example, electricity is also used in ICE. The thrust in an ion engine is not generated by electricity.
                Quote: Simargl
                That's when they fly - then we'll talk.

                But the exploration of the moon is not scheduled tomorrow, there is time for development.
                Quote: Simargl
                but even compared to errors in the thrust of chemical engines.

                I already wrote earlier, a megawatt-class nuclear power plant, developed by Russia only for flights between orbits, take-off and landing on conventional chemical missiles. No, you need to repeat the same thing for the twentieth time.
              20. Simargl
                Simargl 1 May 2019 02: 00 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                for example, ICE also uses electricity. The thrust in an ion engine is not generated by electricity.
                Got out good
                And in ICE, thrust is not created by fuel. Yeah. Crankshaft traction source lol

                Quote: Setrac
                I already wrote earlier, a megawatt-class nuclear power plant, developed by Russia only for flights between orbits, take-off and landing on conventional chemical missiles.
                Actually, I wrote it in plain text.
                In addition, I wrote in plain text that the achievement of the second cosmic velocity, with a time limit, will be on chemical engines.
                And the consequence of this is the uselessness of the ion engine for flying to the moon: the thrust is too small.

              21. Setrac
                Setrac 1 May 2019 11: 07 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                And in ICE, thrust is not created by fuel. Yeah. Crankshaft traction source

                Partially right, the combustion products expanding in the cylinder create traction, and the crank mechanism simply transforms the reciprocating motion of the piston into the rotational motion of the crankshaft.
                Quote: Simargl
                Got out

                Just practice for the brain, the main thing is to find an interlocutor who will not break the mat on the third message.
                Quote: Simargl
                I wrote in plain text that the achievement of the second cosmic velocity, with a time limit, will be on chemical engines.

                Why time limit? Why time limit? We will increase the orbit without rushing.
                Quote: Simargl
                And the consequence of this is the uselessness of the ion engine for flying to the moon: the thrust is too small.

                We do not need an ion engine, an ordinary electric rocket engine with a flow rate of 30–50 km per second.
              22. Simargl
                Simargl 1 May 2019 12: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Just practice for the brain, the main thing is to find an interlocutor who will not break the mat on the third message.
                I'm ready now good drinks am

                Quote: Setrac
                Partly you are right
                That's bullshit! Traction can only be energy. In the design of the engine energy for movement is not stored.

                Quote: Setrac
                Why time limit? Why time limit? We will increase the orbit without rushing.
                Okay. Acceleration of a truck weighing 100 tons will last 2,5 months. Or I messed up something.

                Quote: Setrac
                conventional electric rocket engine with a flow rate of the working fluid of 30-50 km per second.
                Well, this is the ion engine.
                I gave a table where the types of electric missiles are painted. So far, there is nothing besides ionic.
              23. Setrac
                Setrac 1 May 2019 16: 47 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                That's bullshit! Traction can only be energy.

                It is - thermal energy released during the interaction of an oxidizing agent and a reducing agent.
                Quote: Simargl
                So far, there is nothing besides ionic.

                There are electric rockets that are used for maneuvering and orbit correction. Their power is limited by the power of solar panels, but we will have a megawatt-class nuclear power plant.
                I wonder how much power the ISS solar panels generate?
              24. Setrac
                Setrac 1 May 2019 17: 01 New
                0
                Quote: Simargl
                Acceleration of a truck weighing 100 tons will last 2,5 months. Or I messed up something.

                1 Watt = 1 Newton meter per second
                1 MW = 1 mega Newton per meter per second
                10 newton are equal to 1 kg
                total second pulse of 100 kg per second.
                That is, your one hundred tons will be accelerated by 1 meter per second squared, minus the efficiency, which of electric rocket engines is from 30 to 60%.
                But this is a theory, in reality the interplanetary station (the ship doesn’t turn my tongue to call this design) will be much heavier and the electric rocket engines are weaker and such fantastic acceleration by today's standards - 0.1 cannot be achieved.
  • Setrac
    Setrac April 22 2019 20: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Vlad.by
    The problem, in my opinion, is not in the “bad” Rogozin, but in the absence of the vital need to develop a manned space right now.

    Exactly so, there is no over tasks - no over achievements.
  • region58
    region58 April 23 2019 22: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Vlad.by
    in short - not peppered. And close - there will be new Queens and Kurchatovs

    How to say ... For example - how is it with the meteorological constellation of satellites? Yes, frankly - shitty. And this is not only “tomorrow will be the sun or not” - this is ice conditions, it is fires, river spills, and much more about which we have a very vague idea. So it’s fastened already, long ago. yes
    1. Vlad.by
      Vlad.by April 23 2019 23: 30 New
      0
      The post was about manned space exploration. Although the development of satellite constellation is also linked to demand. In my opinion, satellites are good in deep peacetime, in an era of stagnation, if you want.
      Now the situation is different - with the slightest mess, the parties will first "secure" the cosmos. So that immodest eyes would not hang from above. And under the distribution will fall and meteo and geological and communications ..., in short, all devices.
      Russia goes, as I understand it, by increasing its earthly resources. Here you have navigation systems, and communication systems, etc., etc.
      Satellites have so far been given an important, but not the first place. I could be wrong, but I got the impression.
      Space is increasingly becoming a front line.
      And why roll out a Belarus tractor with a plow to the front line?
      1. region58
        region58 April 24 2019 00: 02 New
        0
        Quote: Vlad.by
        under the distribution will fall and meteo and geological and coherent ..., in short, all devices.

        Well, yes, if you don’t start it, they won’t bring it down, no doubt about it. Tricky plan. It's easier for bourgeois to request weather information. While they give. Till.
        Quote: Vlad.by
        And why roll out a Belarus tractor with a plow to the front line?

        Yes, for example, with OneWeb they do not seem to think so ....
        Quote: Vlad.by
        The post was about manned space exploration.

        As for the people in space, I agree - they are needed where automatic machines cannot handle: scientific research, experiments, repair work, it just makes no sense to fly.
        1. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by April 24 2019 19: 23 New
          0
          Time will tell and judge ...
  • sogdy
    sogdy April 22 2019 09: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: Vol4ara
    greater patriots than you, they are just realists and says they see, not fantasize

    Make no mistake, they are terribly far from the topic. They do not play realism ...
  • AshiSolo
    AshiSolo April 21 2019 11: 57 New
    -5
    Have you ever read the article, patriot? There we are talking about engines, but not those that are put into orbit. In addition, NASA bought seats in the Unions with a margin. Just for such a case. So they’ll catch up, and slowly, so that then there wouldn’t be such unsuccessful human trials.
    1. loki565
      loki565 April 21 2019 12: 23 New
      -1
      Without these emergency engines, it will not fly anywhere.
      1. AshiSolo
        AshiSolo April 21 2019 12: 27 New
        +1
        But nothing that has already flown? With the crew - yes, it won’t fly. Why take the risk if you can do without it? But here the question is only in time. And then what will you say, gentlemen, patriots? From the fact that he did not fly, our cosmonautics received nothing ... Places are already bought. Well, they will buy another year. And then?
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara April 21 2019 13: 48 New
          0
          Quote: AshiSolo
          But nothing that has already flown? With the crew - yes, it won’t fly. Why take the risk if you can do without it? But here the question is only in time. And then what will you say, gentlemen, patriots? From the fact that he did not fly, our cosmonautics received nothing ... Places are already bought. Well, they will buy another year. And then?

          I think the word "patriots" is superfluous here. A true patriot primarily wishes happiness to his people, his homeland and his country, and not to the state and government
          1. AshiSolo
            AshiSolo April 21 2019 13: 52 New
            +8
            A true patriot is now to be unprofitable and unfashionable. Here the neighbor's cattle died, shouted cheers and already a patriot. And the fact that his own little lively, stands and moo without feed, so it does not matter. Anyone in the village will say: well done, Mikhalych, I immediately saw that the neighbor's cattle had died, he was happy for his farm! Shame and shame...
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan April 22 2019 14: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: AshiSolo
              A true patriot is now to be unprofitable and unfashionable. Here the neighbor's cattle died, shouted cheers and already a patriot. And the fact that his own little lively, stands and moo without feed, so it does not matter. Anyone in the village will say: well done, Mikhalych, I immediately saw that the neighbor's cattle had died, he was happy for his farm! Shame and shame...

              that is, in your opinion, this true patriot is the one who screams at all angles that his mother does not wash dishes, his sister does not sweep the floor, and his father has not repaired the car for a year already? noticed, told that he hadn’t noticed, on the move, he came up with ... well done! the truth itself does nothing ... only yells ...
              shame and shame!
              1. AshiSolo
                AshiSolo April 22 2019 20: 57 New
                +2
                This is the one who goes to wash the dishes, if he can. Sweeps the floor and drives the car to the service. And if he can’t, then he will at least find out why and try to help. And if he can’t help, then at least with a neighbor who laughs at him, he won’t prove with foam at his mouth that everything’s bad, only his neighbor’s worse, but he wonders how to solve all this and what he can do.

                Thanks to people like you, we forget that being a Patriot is to love your country as it is. And try to make her better. Through criticism, through work, through an understanding of what is happening in the country. And the patriot who only yells that everything is better with us than them - well ... Panties in the color of the flag are in your hands.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan April 23 2019 15: 36 New
                  -2
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  Thanks to people like you, we forget that being a Patriot is to love your country as it is. And try to make her better.

                  do not flatter yourself. For you, it has long been the norm to muddle all the successes of Russia and joyfully spit saliva at every failure. yes
                  how did you even manage to pull your diarrheal alarmism into the term "patriot"? belay whose patriot are you? Mask?
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  And the patriot who only yells that everything is better with us than them - well ... Panties in the color of the flag are in your hands.

                  you see, you are getting worse. nothing is being built for you, you have nothing to fly ... you no longer notice what is being built, what is being created. your whole being is dedicated to suffering that everything is bad and everything is gone. you do not care about the success of the country, your destiny to suffer.
                  it would seem okay ... well, there are such stubborn little fools in the country, so what ... but you, Kolisurengoy, say you pretend to be patriots of Russia! you, insignificants who have done nothing in your life except jumping with ducks and sneakers and creating traffic jams on the streets. and something else here about patriotism bay ...
                  go with the duck game, see revelations from the most authoritative sources and suffer laughing
                2. AshiSolo
                  AshiSolo April 23 2019 18: 30 New
                  0
                  Firstly, it’s up to you, or there’s no reason to communicate with you.
                  Secondly, I would love to break your face, for comparison with Kolisurengoy, but alas.
                  And tell me, what kind of success am I pouring mud on?
                3. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan April 24 2019 16: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  Firstly, it’s up to you, or there’s no reason to communicate with you.

                  ok, let's try ...
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  Secondly, I would love to break your face, for comparison with Kolisurengoy, but alas.

                  Do you seriously think that you are different from him? laughing I will disappoint you, but one field is a berry.
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  And tell me, what kind of success am I pouring mud on?

                  this is your kaka?
                  "And ours, dolboklyuy, were preparing to fight with Pokemon and telepuziki. All these years, all the improvements, all the upgrades - for his sake! Salute, comes out Shoigu. IIIiii - living steel. Tank biathlon. Congratulations. You have opened a new tank building page."
                  spit on the modernization program that is on schedule, spit on the first batch of T-14 entering the troops this year, the main thing is to fart loudly.

                  and this?
                  "A true patriot is now to be unprofitable and unfashionable. Here the neighbor's cattle died, shouted cheers and already a patriot."
                  who is this neighbor? USA? are they your neighbors? Musk is not a competitor of Roscosmaos for you, but brother? laughing
                  maybe you are a patriot but certainly not Russia. yes
                4. AshiSolo
                  AshiSolo April 24 2019 16: 38 New
                  +1
                  You know, I’m on a business trip, because I won’t be able to arrange the answer so beautifully.
                  1) Try, recommend
                  2) You are very mistaken. Pouring mud at home and criticizing are two huge differences. If you still do not understand this - I am sad.
                  3 and 4) You do not even understand what the post is about. And I'm somehow afraid to even express some sarcasm. You can take it seriously.

                  PS: Another ten years and you will understand what it means to be a Patriot. If I am mistaken and you are already over 30, then I can only sympathize with you.
                5. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan April 24 2019 17: 00 New
                  0
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  You know, I’m on a business trip, because I won’t be able to arrange the answer so beautifully.

                  there are buttons under the post. reply, quote, complaint. select the desired fragment of the text and press the quote.
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  You are very wrong. Pouring mud at home and criticizing are two huge differences. If you still do not understand this - I am sad.

                  where is the criticism in the fragments cited by me ??? pure slop. and I didn’t have to look long. this is your usual rhetoric. well, and even attacks on those who do not suit you laughing do you have some kind of inferiority complex? request
                  Quote: AshiSolo
                  PS: Another ten years and you will understand what it means to be a Patriot. If I am mistaken and you are already over 30, then I can only sympathize with you.

                  like you I saw in 90. They also told how everything is bad with us, how everything is good there and what real friends of Russia live there. I remember it well. such people are my enemies.
                  you are not different from them. then they hid their financial interests for someone like your patriotism. how do you differ from them? I have not found any differences yet. all the same shit about how we are doing badly and they are doing well.

                  PS
                  and yet, the United States is at least a competitor to Russia, and at the very least, a potential adversary, and on the basis of this I am definitely pleased that their “cow has died”, or rather the rocket burned down. is it a tragedy for you?
                6. AshiSolo
                  AshiSolo April 24 2019 17: 16 New
                  0
                  I don’t even see the point of responding to your wonderful message. In the 90s, you lived with EBN and why good luck.
                  But as for your PS, so here I completely agree. It’s impossible to stop only on the fact that the cow is dead. You also need to think about your own.
            2. AshiSolo
              AshiSolo April 24 2019 18: 02 New
              0
              I’m not at ease, but I’m still chewing: “And ours, dolboklui, were preparing to fight with Pokemon and telepuziki. All these years, all the improvements, all the upgrades - for his own sake! Salute, comes out Shoigu. IIIiiii - living steel. Tank biathlon. Congratulations. You have opened a new tank building page. "

              Do you really think that a huge, powerful country has modernized, created and cherished and cherished the BEST tank in the world so that it only takes part in biathlon? Dozens of conflicts, constant wars. You rummaged, but did not bother to think with your head ..
            3. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan April 25 2019 14: 05 New
              0
              Quote: AshiSolo
              You rummaged, but did not bother to think with your head ..

              in ov. just not me but you. yes
              In 2018, about 2.8 thousand training events in the army were held in Russia, from combat readiness checks of individual units to large-scale international ones, such as East 2018.
              in Syria, in real combat conditions, about 300 samples of new equipment were tested.
              at exercises in the Baltic in 2017, firing with target designation from drones were practiced. this is not even in the USA and China. Only here. in all military branches, the concept of a single information space is systematically introduced!
              and then another regular "barging-hopper" begins to go wild about tank biathlon. The event was created to popularize the army and copes with it perfectly. who are these stubborn for whom the whole army of the Russian Federation has been reduced to a tank biathlon? where is the STC looking ??? more on the Knights and Strizhi eat, tank-artodox laughing

              I have friends in the defense industry. I have a superficial understanding of what these people do. really unique technique. not some kind of "Soviet backlog", but a new one. something that the USSR only dreamed about or generally considered unrealizable. people are working, the rearmament of the army is in the final stage, but at the same time there are always patriots who have no idea what is happening and scream that "everything is lost." hypersonic rockets they have cartoons, Relight from water pipes glued together ....

              At the end of 2018, the Moscow Region reported on the successful testing of two samples of anaerobic power plants and that a decision was made about which one would go into production. In early 2019, an article appeared at the VO stating that work on the anaerobic power plant had been stopped at Rubin a year ago. immediately a crowd of pyzriots came running and began to scream that such a project had been ruined. I bet you put your plus sign there wink what's this? criticism??? no! criticism these are questions to the leadership of the madhouse why they turned on open wifi and why they stopped stabbing the halos.
  • Setrac
    Setrac April 22 2019 21: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: SanichSan
    shame and shame!

    During the war, alarmists were shot, their screams were apparently not completely harmless.
    1. AshiSolo
      AshiSolo April 23 2019 18: 31 New
      +1
      Are you there, in the trenches, with whom are you fighting?
    2. Setrac
      Setrac April 23 2019 18: 53 New
      -1
      Quote: AshiSolo
      Are you there, in the trenches, with whom are you fighting?

      This is classified information!
    3. AshiSolo
      AshiSolo April 24 2019 15: 56 New
      0
      My second last name is Stirlitz. You can still be honest with me xD
    4. Setrac
      Setrac April 24 2019 20: 37 New
      0
      Quote: AshiSolo
      My second last name is Stirlitz. You can still be honest with me xD

      And I’ll ask you to stay.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt April 21 2019 15: 44 New
    0
    Quote: AshiSolo
    Well, they will buy another year. And then?

    And then they will continue to buy. Passed already, we know.
    1. topear
      topear April 21 2019 19: 40 New
      -8
      After a year they will stop buying! Then exactly the end of Roscosmos!
      1. ultra
        ultra April 22 2019 15: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: topear
        After a year they will stop buying! Then exactly the end of Roscosmos!

        And what does Roskosmos have to do with it? The supply contract was concluded by NPO Energomash. laughing
        1. topear
          topear April 22 2019 18: 28 New
          -2
          Well then, Energomash is also over laughing
  • loki565
    loki565 April 21 2019 16: 00 New
    -5
    They will not buy what ??? As they flew and will fly, during the USSR they did not particularly care about the profitability of flights.
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara April 21 2019 16: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: loki565
      They will not buy what ??? As they flew and will fly, during the USSR they did not particularly care about the profitability of flights.

      They compared horseradish with a finger, it was the USSR, and now we have the Russian Federation, and in the Russian Federation you cannot build your own airplane for yourself without first selling it to anyone, it is not economically profitable
    2. Simargl
      Simargl April 22 2019 03: 42 New
      -1
      Quote: loki565
      during the USSR, they did not particularly care about profitability of flights.
      If no one here noticed, the USSR has sunk into oblivion, and space is becoming the environment from which people are trying to squeeze money, which means that it profitability.
  • ZamkomATV
    ZamkomATV April 21 2019 21: 38 New
    -2
    And then, instead of US astronauts, Europeans and Chinese will start buying seats, ours will not stop flying either
    1. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 07: 02 New
      0
      Quote: ZamkomATV
      instead of US astronauts, Europeans and Chinese will start buying seats
      Europeans will fly the Dragons. The Chinese do not need our manned spacecraft - they have their own bloated clone of the Union.
      And ours, if there is no station or good cooperation, it will be possible to use the East to start.
  • core
    core April 21 2019 22: 24 New
    +1
    then we will fly on our own, and they will be ours, what’s the problem? another story to me than a dragon, so super duper is different from a union, does it somehow dock with somersault? What is innovation?
  • topear
    topear April 21 2019 19: 38 New
    -5
    While you live in your little world in a vacuum, the USA has overtaken you for a long time!
    1. ultra
      ultra April 22 2019 15: 58 New
      -1
      Quote: topear
      You still live in your world in a vacuum

      As I understand it, this is seen from Polish strawberry plantations. laughing You do not get distracted from the main work. wassat
    2. ZamkomATV
      ZamkomATV 3 May 2019 07: 26 New
      -2
      How many manned launches does the U.S. have in 2018?
  • smart ass
    smart ass April 21 2019 22: 17 New
    -4
    And they will catch up and overtake do not worry about the masks and they will steer us. If Rogozin is left in power, then in 10 years no one will remember about Russia in space
  • snake
    snake April 22 2019 16: 13 New
    +3
    Quote: SRC P-15
    How does the local pro-Western on the site get rid of criticism of their vaunted dragon. Cons fly away from them like poplar fluff. But the pipes!

    Caution! You can get under an article about not respecting the authorities. For there are no more pro-Westerners in our country than our government. Whatever you dig - children, money, real estate - everything is in the West.
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky April 21 2019 12: 27 New
    +6
    Quote: Engineer Schukin
    well - seizing

    Urrya will be when your Urkaini "Swan" takes off, but for now start flying kites.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 13: 43 New
      +3
      They are about to take off. The peas will ripen, eat - and immediately fly.
      1. prvregion
        prvregion April 22 2019 19: 14 New
        0
        Yes, colleague. And how do you like the pea trampoline scheme? I ate peas, took out a chop, and from a trampoline kaaaak, I started ....
  • aristok
    aristok April 21 2019 12: 08 New
    +6
    Quote: 777-3-59-97
    American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

    As always, a loud headline does not match the description of the news.

    The heading just matches - the Krew Cru Dragon launch capsule is lost - which will postpone the first manned flight on this type of ship for at least next year.
    Here the text of the news itself does not really correspond, as it is a whipped translation of the initial muddy messages immediately after the accident.
    And its "turbidity" is that it is not clear from it - whether the accident occurred only with the engine on the stand, or with the engine in the ship.
    As I wrote at the beginning - not just the engine is lost,
    Lost capsule KK Cru Dragon lost during tests at the stand.
    This has already been confirmed by many sources, plus there is a video (albeit of very poor quality).
    1. aristok
      aristok April 21 2019 12: 14 New
      +6
      A serious conceptual error of Cru Dragon is the placement of toxic components, monomethylhydrazine with diazot tetroxide, in a manned descent capsule of liquid engines.
      By the way, here's a club of smoke, characteristic of diazo nitrogen tetroxide (N4O2), creeping after this accident:
      (click to enlarge.)

      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 April 21 2019 13: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: aristok
        diazot tetroxide (N4O2)

        belay Sorry, but N2O4. And yes, that same smoke. yes hi
        1. aristok
          aristok April 21 2019 13: 37 New
          +2
          Quote: Paranoid50
          Quote: aristok
          diazot tetroxide (N4O2)

          belay Sorry, but N2O4. And yes, that same smoke. yes hi

          Thanks for the correction - described. hi
          I know perfectly well what the prefixes tetra- and di mean. :)
      2. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 13: 45 New
        +6
        Well, this can only be addressed to our rage about toxicity.
        And this ... Ilon Musk himself ... but shame on you!
      3. Awaz
        Awaz April 21 2019 14: 26 New
        +7
        how many times it has already been said that Americans stupidly breed Roskosmos with the theme of environmental friendliness .. And so, I agree that all these games with the return of steps, the manifold of the ship are banal PR. Even from a financial point of view, there is no surplus in the reuse of a ship, especially a charged explosive fuel, under such temperature and gravitational loads. In addition, NASA prohibits flying with people again .. The use of returning the steps reduces the payload by half ... Initially, hamsters - Mask fanatics did not even believe in it until he himself admitted the fact recently .. It seems to me that Mask's idea In the end, it will not fully work. If only in the Russian version, because as in Roskosmos, with all the flaws, they try to make a ship in terms of reliability not lower than the Union and the same carrier
        1. Madjestik85
          Madjestik85 April 23 2019 15: 35 New
          +1
          "reusable ship - banal PR" - what ?! those. the idea of ​​throwing a spaceship right after one use doesn't seem vicious to you? just imagine for comparison how much a plane ticket would cost now if they were disposable. the creation of a fully reusable ship is the future and the only real chance to significantly reduce the cost of flights in this future. you need to work in this direction and conduct development, and not sit on Soviet developments and justify your inaction
          1. Awaz
            Awaz April 23 2019 16: 42 New
            -1
            The thing is that Musk did in fact a one-time ship. In any case, for manned flight. All that is happening around him is PR. I don’t mind at all what reusable ships did, however, as the practice of using Shuttles has shown, it’s too expensive and very expensive to restore the returned module to life after the flight. He thinks that everyone in the USSR did not understand that it was possible to save both the launch stage and the descent vehicle? they all knew and even tried. But even in the USSR they were friends with mathematics and accounting. In fact, the Union's descent capsule is an ordinary high-tech metal barrel. But in those years, even as a truck, they did not risk launching it. So there was some good reason. Although yes, there was the same TKS in the USSR, which had the opportunity to be re-launched (they say up to 10 times) But somehow it didn’t take root in space programs, although the idea was more interesting than that of Mask
            And people who are still working in Roskosmos are likely to know this reason and probably snicker quietly over Mask.
            I agree that now in Roskosmos people are ruled by completely unaware of what to do and how. But probably not all, but Roscosmos would have long ceased to exist.
            Although I am not a fanatic of Rogozin and Co. and most likely I am sure that in the near future they will not finish either the heavy rocket or the Federation (or whatever they want to call it), because they make the product according to the order and with the characteristics that really performed during operation. That is, they were initially the loser of Masks in terms of PRA and in the performance characteristics of the ship. The Mask can be run once and the Federation must endure with the crew up to 50 descents. Roskosmos cannot launch a Rogozin machine to Mars ... Well, Angara, say, capable of pulling 30 tons into low orbit, nobody will launch in 5 tons, for the sake of advertising ...
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 3 May 2019 18: 51 New
              0
              Quote: AwaZ
              So there was some good reason.
              Technology, materials? Not?

              Quote: AwaZ
              Although yes, it was the same TCS in the USSR, which had the opportunity to be restarted (they say up to 10 times)
              Those. We considered some kind of catch. This means that technology and / or materials have not matured.
              Everything has its time. It is necessary to grow and develop, and not stagnate, as with the Union.
              1. Awaz
                Awaz 4 May 2019 06: 41 New
                0
                Well, who knows what prevented them. I just read as a child about attempts to save the first stage. It has long been, I do not remember everything, but the salvation of even the engines did not increase at all, but significantly reduced the payload of the entire complex. At Mask, if you save all the overclocking blocks, then half of the payload disappears. And therefore, I do not know how it is now, but in those years in the USSR (for sure) they fought with every gram of excess weight.
                The TKS was saved because of the lack of money, competition with the Union and the not very reliable Proton. Although he even flew to the ISS like a truck. As far as I am, if I am not mistaken, the TKS could bring up to 5 tons of cargo or up to 6 crew members into orbit. No matter how different from the characteristics of either the Dragon or the Federation. Who knows, maybe the Federation is based on it and is being built ...
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 4 May 2019 09: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: AwaZ
                  I don’t know how now, but in those years in the USSR (for sure) they fought with every gram of excess weight.
                  So they fought that the developers of the missiles were called gunners. Aviators fought for every gram.
                  Quote: AwaZ
                  TCS was hacked because of a lack of money, competition with the Union and the not-so-reliable Proton.
                  Yeah! The Soyuz-Mafia is stronger than ever: there, something was thrust into the Dragon, which tore it apart. Along the way, behind the hole in the service compartment.
                  Quote: AwaZ
                  Who knows, maybe the Federation on its basis is being built ...
                  No. Clipper refused the form factor.
                  1. Awaz
                    Awaz 4 May 2019 18: 22 New
                    -1
                    you like that in a frenzy surely, completely misunderstand me. TKS was a ship created by Chelomey and they had floats with the crew of the Queen. TKS so surpasses all current ideas of Mask and was also partially reusable. There is information that at least two times the descent module was launched again. He did not fly with people, although the astronauts even prepared for him. The problems there were precisely with the unreliability of the carrier, that is, the Proton.
                    And the ship itself flew into space several times successfully, and some Soviet orbital stations were built from its parts, even to the ISS, it flew as a truck. And even its elements seemed to be used for the ISS too.
                    And as I read now, all of his achievements were either sold or used for "joint" programs with NASA and some European offices.
                    It is possible that the mask something perepalo.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl 4 May 2019 19: 06 New
                      0
                      Quote: AwaZ
                      There is information that at least two times the descent module was re-launched.
                      There is information that everything is on the Internet, and that no one wonders - it is useful to give a link. Otherwise, you will talk about yours, your opponent - about yours.

                      Quote: AwaZ
                      he even flew to the ISS as a truck.
                      You would at least take an interest in your topic. Last launch 27.09.1985/XNUMX/XNUMX. He didn’t even see the WORLD.
                    2. Awaz
                      Awaz 4 May 2019 20: 10 New
                      -1
                      Well, I as if did not take a deep interest. I just watched a movie about Chelomey for a long time and, as if from memory, was trying to tell something.
                      I read Wikipedia))) there is no time something is already sought. Duck, if they don't lie, then the Dawn of the ISS is made on the basis of this ship. So partly I'm right, although probably not quite when I understood about TKS and ISS. Wikipedia, as I understand it, says nothing about reuse, but somewhere I heard about it. probably have to dig. All the same, Wikipedia is not very reliable source of information
                    3. Simargl
                      Simargl 5 May 2019 02: 53 New
                      0
                      Quote: AwaZ
                      All the same, Wikipedia is not a very reliable source of information.
                      Wiki is the seed to know what to look for.
  • aristok
    aristok April 21 2019 16: 42 New
    -2
    Quote: aristok
    A serious conceptual mistake of Crew Dragon is the placement in a manned descent capsule of liquid engines on the toxic components of monomethylhydrazine with diazotetroxide.
    By the way, here are brown-red clouds of smoke, characteristic of diazotetraoxide (N2O4), creep after this accident:
    (click to enlarge.)

    This photo, both in composition and in essence resembles another:
    nuclear explosion. View from Las Vegas, 1960s, USA
  • DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer April 22 2019 10: 06 New
    +3
    Quote: aristok
    A serious conceptual error of Cru Dragon is the placement of toxic components, monomethylhydrazine with diazot tetroxide, in a manned descent capsule of liquid engines.


    If something, all Soyuz series ships have engines based on toxic components, diazot tetraoxide and UDMH. So all crews fly on toxic components - a self-igniting pair is ideal for multi-use inclusions in airless spaces.
    Yes, it is safer for us in the Union when landing - the engine compartment is undocked after the issuance of a brake impulse before entering the atmosphere.
    But the Union was not provided for reusable and sits not on water, but on the ground, which requires additional devices for damping vertical speed (solid propellant solid propellant rocket - weighing 9 kg)
  • Tusv
    Tusv April 21 2019 12: 23 New
    +7
    Quote: 777-3-59-97
    As always, a loud headline does not match the description of the news.

    Well, why doesn’t it? Very much. The Union’s crew rescue in non-standard situations is already a banal function. The whole world recently became convinced of this. Everybody is alive. Dragon still, everyone died. So work to work and work again. And then, after all, the NASA astronaut will say, well, nafig, I don’t have a purple heart above me, I’d better fly to the Union
    1. Sky
      Sky April 21 2019 13: 14 New
      -12
      Quote: Tusv
      Dragon still, everyone died.
      I haven’t flown with people yet, but everyone has already died ... from shame or what?
      Quote: Tusv
      So work to work and work again.
      in fact, this is what they are doing, unlike Roscosmos, which only speaks in the face of Rogozin. Higher Infinity correctly said - failure is a complete technical mismatch of the product of those. task, and not a malfunction in the system, the severity of which is still unknown. A failure is when the Phobos-soil does not land on Phobos, but on Earth.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 13: 47 New
        +4
        The union flies, the astronauts carry. Missiles are being built.
        But for some reason, only Americans are working in this direction.
        Probably our oligarchs stole from the Americans a ship "Soyuz".
        Well, nothing, now they will end - and then everything, check and checkmate to you, patriots.
        1. Sky
          Sky April 21 2019 13: 52 New
          +3
          An alliance designed by a great power called the Soviet Union is flying. And the Federation designed in the Russian Federation does not fly. But that's not all - the current generation of "effective managers" manages to drop to the ground even anniversary unions in front of the director of NASA. And your minuses and shouts "Hurray, the cow died from a neighbor!" this situation cannot be corrected.
          1. Awaz
            Awaz April 22 2019 05: 53 New
            +1
            Guessing on the coffee grounds is not a thankful business, but something tells me that in years through 20, and maybe even through 10, this Dragon will simply roll in the museum. And the Union will continue to fly. Moreover, it can finish the Federation to the level that it was laid initially, or simply, having digested all the shoals of the Mask, will make it disposable, without any of these useless and newfangled fantiffs.
            And even the Americans, if they make a ship, it will also be a continuation of the Union rather than Dragon. Although I do not exclude, if suddenly some kind of super technology can be devised by someone, the situation may change. But at this level of technology, everything will continue as it is now and as it was under the Queen.
            Well, it is provided that the authorities in the Russian Federation will not completely destroy the space program.
        2. Tusv
          Tusv April 21 2019 14: 19 New
          +7
          Quote: Mestny
          The union flies, the astronauts carry. Missiles are being built.
          But for some reason, only Americans are working in this direction.

          E. Everyone can do it. Say, yes, with a fucking budget, so that flew and saved. You try as ours. To grit your teeth, to keep silent, but to do. With a budget that an American can only take by taxi. The union flies and saves for many years. and they collect it somehow, and not from the air at the pike command hi
      2. Tusv
        Tusv April 21 2019 14: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Skye
        I haven’t flown with people yet, but everyone has already died ... from shame or what?

        All non-regular situations on earth are being worked out. How did the Time of the First Queens say in the film? You died and your partner too. So the Dragon is still burning with shame, because in which case it will not save. And the astronauts, by the way, are the first people on earth. To lose such people due to the fact that the Rescue Capsule does not work, but kills. Why do we need such a ship?
        1. Sky
          Sky April 21 2019 14: 18 New
          +1
          Let's do it again. There was no manned flight. In order to ensure that no one dies during it, there is a regular working out of emergency situations and verification of rescue systems. Until this work is completed, the manned flight will not take place.
          Further. The development of the Dragon began in 2004, after 6 years the first successful flight took place. The development of the Federation began in 2009, after 10 years there is no talk of any flight, and the first flight is planned for 2023, and with a high degree of probability the term is shifted to the right. Surely the Dragon should be ashamed?
          1. Tusv
            Tusv April 21 2019 14: 25 New
            -2
            Quote: Skye
            Surely the Dragon should be ashamed?

            You are here with the Federation then do not distort. This is Rogozin for a red face. Here is a variant of the Dragon with the Union. The dragon cannot be used for humans yet. And Musk promised to launch it with astronauts 2 years ago. Here, before the Union, a fiery muzzle is appropriate. An article about it
            1. Sky
              Sky April 21 2019 14: 30 New
              0
              Do you really want me to compare the Union, the progenitor of which took off in 1967, 5 years after the start of development, with Dragon?
              1. Tusv
                Tusv April 21 2019 14: 45 New
                +4
                Quote: Skye
                Do you really want me to compare the Union, the progenitor of which took off in 1967, 5 years after the start of development, with Dragon?

                And how are the principles of the Dragon different from the Father of all the spaceships of the East ?. Ruffles in design? So after all, the modern Union has already changed a lot of letters and numbers and fuel in tanks
                1. Orlov
                  Orlov April 21 2019 14: 57 New
                  -7
                  Quote: Tusv
                  Quote: Skye
                  Do you really want me to compare the Union, the progenitor of which took off in 1967, 5 years after the start of development, with Dragon?

                  And how are the principles of the Dragon different from the Father of all the spaceships of the East ?. Ruffles in design? So after all, the modern Union has already changed a lot of letters and numbers and fuel in tanks

                  Have you ever read this article? 3D printing when it was an expert on unions?
                  1. Tusv
                    Tusv April 21 2019 15: 06 New
                    +3
                    Three de seal? Option to manufacture parts. No more. Our printers are already sold under the house. But. Will the printed part differ in outstanding properties? Let's say the service life of a board made on a sawmill is less, split by wedges and machined with an ax. Go to museums of wooden architecture - make sure
                    1. Sky
                      Sky April 21 2019 16: 35 New
                      0
                      Quote: Tusv
                      Will the printed part differ in outstanding properties?
                      Not yet different. The printed part has a reduced density due to the presence of micropores, this somewhat reduces the theoretical strength, compared with castings, and even more so forgings and stampings. No less additive technologies are being improved there, and the future lies with them. Not in the sense that they will replace all other technologies, they will simply occupy their niche, including aerospace engineering. The SuperDracos combustion chamber has already worked for 300 seconds and has not yet collapsed.
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac April 21 2019 17: 41 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Skye
                      this slightly reduces the theoretical strength

                      This reduces the ACTUAL strength, and not the theoretical, you just lie.
                    3. Sky
                      Sky April 21 2019 19: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Setrac
                      This reduces ACTUAL strength, not theoretical,
                      I meant that the strength is reduced relative to the theoretical level. And what, pores can increase it? belay My phrase about the fact that the printed part is not distinguished by outstanding properties is not clear to you?
                      Would you like to discuss about additive technologies? I already did this in the corresponding topic, in some detail with photographs of microstructures and other things, debunking the misconceptions about sponge-porous metal after 3D printing. If the topic is interesting, you can join the discussion: https://topwar.ru/154528-v-indii-reshili-pechat-komplektujuschie-k-su-30mki-na-3d-printere.html#comment-id-9133160
                      Quote: Setrac
                      you're just lying
                      sorry, but this is rudeness
                    4. Setrac
                      Setrac April 21 2019 23: 21 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Skye
                      My phrase about the fact that the printed part is not distinguished by outstanding properties is not clear to you?

                      This is a huge understatement, in space such a decline in properties is unacceptable.
                    5. Sky
                      Sky April 22 2019 18: 25 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Setrac
                      This is a huge understatement, in space such a decline in properties is unacceptable.
                      What are the specific properties: heat resistance, ductility, corrosion resistance, heat resistance? How many percent have they decreased? For example, do you know that Inconel is a whole large group of alloys? One of them was used to print the combustion chamber in the engine. Well, let's say due to the imperfection of 3D printing, the strength decreased by 10% - you can compensate for this loss by increasing the content of alloying elements (roughly, introduce more niobium, molybdenum). And how will micropores affect heat resistance? No way. Therefore, without specifics, with respect to the real part and the conditions of its work, this is a conversation about nothing.
                    6. Setrac
                      Setrac April 22 2019 20: 38 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Skye
                      Well, let's say due to the imperfection of 3D printing, the strength has decreased by 10% - you can compensate for this loss by increasing the content of alloying elements

                      The phrase "let's say" is not appropriate here. Well, let's say due to the imperfection of 3D printing, the strength has decreased by 90% ???
                      Quote: Skye
                      And how will micropores affect heat resistance?

                      Bubbles reduce thermal conductivity, the surface will melt faster
                      Quote: Skye
                      Yes way.

                      Even as they affect. Your self-confidence from ignorance.
                      I note that I am not opposed to 3D printing, but this technology has reached the perfection necessary for the industry.
                      And yet - 3D printing in a vacuum will be much better.
                    7. Sky
                      Sky April 22 2019 21: 31 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Setrac
                      The phrase "let's say" is not appropriate here.

                      Approx.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      This is a huge understatement, in space such a decline in properties is unacceptable
                      Are these your words? What property decline did you name? unacceptable? Do you have specific data on the loss of strength of the SuperDracos combustion chamber that you consider unacceptable?
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Bubbles reduce thermal conductivity, the surface will melt faster
                      the number of micropores can be less than 0,5%, this will reduce the thermal conductivity by a tiny amount.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Even as they affect.
                      the heat resistance of Inconeli depends primarily on the content of chromium in it, then aluminum and silicon. Enlighten me on how pores can reduce oxidation resistance. By the way, are you sure that the inside of the chamber is not sprayed with heat-resistant ceramics and that the combustion products have no contact with the walls at all?
                      Quote: Setrac
                      this technology has reached the perfection necessary for the industry
                      actually I’m talking about this, properties are not outstanding yet, the technology is developing. It is not clear what the argument is about.
                      PS And yes, I’m not at all ashamed to admit to not knowing anything, this is just an excuse to engage in self-education. I am pleased to listen to sensible comments and thank you for the information.
                    8. Setrac
                      Setrac April 22 2019 21: 50 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Skye
                      What property degradation you called unacceptable?

                      The phrase "allowable" means that you do not know how much the strength decreases, maybe by 10%, or maybe 90% - this is not acceptable.
                      Quote: Skye
                      the number of micropores can be less than 0,5%, this will reduce the thermal conductivity by a tiny amount.

                      Again "may"! You wonder again! And it can be 99.5% and this will reduce the thermal conductivity to practical zero.
                      Quote: Skye
                      the heat resistance of Inconeli depends primarily on the content of chromium in it, then aluminum and silicon.

                      The heat resistance of a part also depends on the ability to remove heat from the surface and transfer it to the cooler, if any, or to distribute heat throughout the entire volume of the part.
                      Quote: Skye
                      I am pleased to listen to sensible comments and thank you for the information.

                      Actually, for this, we need a lunar base - you need to drag a 3D printer to the Moon and there, with low gravity, in a vacuum, from superpure materials, you can simply work wonders on a 3D printer.
                      That is why I do not believe in the flight of Americans to the moon - you just need to realize how far our civilization would go - if the Americans did fly to the moon.
                    9. Sky
                      Sky April 23 2019 12: 28 New
                      0
                      Quote: Setrac
                      The phrase "allowable" means that you do not know how much the strength decreases, maybe by 10%, or maybe 90% - this is not acceptable.

                      you don’t know either, so the statement about the inadmissibility of using printed parts in space is not correct. But SpaceX engineers know, so they thought it was acceptable.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      The heat resistance of the part depends, including
                      look how ugly it turns out, first you accuse me of lying, then of incompetence, and now it turns out that you do not understand the difference in the heatstamina and hotstrength... Not good.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Actually, for this, we need a lunar base - you need to drag a 3D printer to the Moon and there, with low gravity, in a vacuum, from superpure materials, you can simply work wonders on a 3D printer.
                      the use of ultra-pure materials and vacuum in printers has already been implemented on Earth, and why low gravity? So that the particles of the powder in the process of degassing the melt scattered throughout the chamber? lol
                    10. Setrac
                      Setrac April 23 2019 17: 44 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Skye
                      You do not understand the difference in heat resistance and heat resistance ...

                      You just find fault with the words, why this senseless argument about terms?
                      Quote: Skye
                      SpaceX engineers know, so they thought it was acceptable.

                      So apparently their "dragon" did not pass the test?
                    11. Sky
                      Sky April 23 2019 21: 13 New
                      0
                      Quote: Setrac
                      You just find fault with the words, why this senseless argument about terms?
                      understand me correctly, as a techie techie, I do not quibble, but these terms have a radically different meaning, one refers to the mechanical characteristics of the material, the other to its chemical properties.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      So apparently their "dragon" did not pass the test?
                      I have no idea, the print camera is only on one out of 8 engine, maybe it didn’t exist on a particular emergency dragon, or maybe it was request
                2. Sky
                  Sky April 23 2019 12: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Again "may"! You wonder again! And it can be 99.5% and this will reduce the thermal conductivity to practical zero.

                  You are guessing, but I am voicing the numbers that are really achievable when printing. For whom did I give a link to the photo?

                  This is a microtomography of samples obtained by the SLM method in various technological modes. By optimizing these modes, it is possible to minimize porosity in the region of 0,2-0,5%.
      3. sogdy
        sogdy April 22 2019 11: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Skye
        I already did this in the corresponding topic, in some detail with photographs of microstructures and other things, debunking the misconceptions about sponge-porous metal after 3D printing.

        Oh how! Even the crystal lattice is preserved?
        If cho, the same alpha in the fundamentals of thermodynamics, in the basics of sopromat and crystallography is one and the same.
        So I join Setrac’s opinion. Since your additive technology, alas, is from the field of resistance welding.
        By car with steering rods made by 3D, will you go along a country road? A complete analogue of mask products.
      4. Sky
        Sky April 22 2019 19: 00 New
        -1
        Quote: sogdy
        Even the crystal lattice is preserved?
        What specific printing material and technology are we talking about? If we are talking about steel with a large margin of austeniticity, then naturally the fcc lattice will remain, because polymorphic transformation will not occur. If not, then when the melt (or the fused particles of the initial powder) cools, the austenite will decompose and the lattice will change to bcc.
        Quote: sogdy
        Since your additive technology, alas, is from the field of resistance welding.
        Additive technologies have nothing to do with resistance welding.
        Quote: sogdy
        By car with steering rods made by 3D, will you go along a country road? A complete analogue of mask products.
        the steering rod is a part of a fairly simple form, the manufacture of which by printing is not economically feasible. Naturally, it is not an “analogue” of the combustion chamber, which has an extremely complex shape due to the presence of numerous channels for liquid cooling.
        The photo is just for example:
      5. sogdy
        sogdy April 22 2019 19: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: Skye
        Naturally, it is not an “analogue” of the combustion chamber, which has an extremely complex shape due to the presence of numerous channels for liquid cooling.

        And how is such a miracle made without digital technology?
        But you still left the question of the trip. So eat?
        Quote: Skye
        Quote: sogdy
        Even the crystal lattice is preserved?
        What specific printing material and technology are we talking about? If we are talking about steel with a large margin of austeniticity, then naturally the fcc lattice will remain, because polymorphic transformation will not occur. If not, then when the melt (or the fused particles of the initial powder) cools, the austenite will decompose and the lattice will change to bcc.
        Alpha question omitted. Wangyu, due to ignorance.
        And who told you that this is about steel ?! At 260kN ?! What should be the temperature?
        And von Braun already had self-cooling. And yet he did not have 3D printing.
      6. Sky
        Sky April 22 2019 19: 53 New
        0
        Quote: sogdy
        And how is such a miracle made without digital technology?
        I suspect injection molding. You will not believe it, but each technology has alternatives.
        Quote: sogdy
        But you still left the question of the trip. So eat?
        the question does not make sense, steering rods will never be made by printing. If someone thinks of typing them, then after testing for strength, ductility, toughness and fatigue, yes, I’ll go. And you will go. And fly. In the near future. Without even knowing which Boeing components are printed and which are cast. Don't resist wink
        Quote: sogdy
        Alpha question omitted. Wangyu, due to ignorance.
        And who told you that this is about steel ?! At 260kN ?! What should be the temperature?
        try to correctly formulate the question, I'm not a psychic and not a Wang especially. What alpha are we talking about? What do these KN refer to? What temperature? wassat
      7. sogdy
        sogdy April 23 2019 14: 41 New
        0
        Quote: Skye
        try to correctly formulate the question,

        Do you offer me to answer my own question?
        Harasho.
        Quote: sogdy
        the same alpha in the fundamentals of thermodynamics, in the fundamentals of copromat and crystallography is one and the same.

        260kN - the average thrust of the Mask engines. Any thrust is due to exhaustion of gases. The conversion of fuel (liquid) into gas is accompanied by an increase in temperature. The movement causes additional mechanical loads (additional moment of impulse, which prevents the operation of hydromechanical equipment). An increase in temperature contributes to a change in geometry (as well as mechanical load) and burnout of the entire feed system, including control.
        Quote: Skye
        the question doesn't make sense

        Oh oh ?! About
        Quote: Skye
        You will not believe it, but each technology has alternatives.

        You will not believe it, but on all critical details there is a ban on replacing technology.
        And yes, metal products (from those subject to heat treatment) are determined not by the crystal lattice, but by the specific number and depth of dislocations and the preservation of dimensions after heat treatment. If cho, dislocations are not removed by heat treatment, but only by thermomechanics (forging).
        The geology textbook begins with a table of crystals, indicating alpha for the crystal lattice. In the full periodic table, alpha is given as a coefficient for calculating the expansion of a solid.

        I understand that the self-evident things for this topic are not known to you. Absolutely.
        Amateur?
      8. Sky
        Sky April 23 2019 17: 47 New
        0
        Quote: sogdy
        260kN - the average thrust of the Mask engines. ... An increase in temperature contributes to a change in geometry (as well as mechanical load) and burnout of the entire supply system, including control.
        what did you want to say?
        Quote: sogdy
        You will not believe it, but on all critical details there is a ban on replacing technology.
        prohibitions are spelled out in normative and technical documentation, which is updated as new technologies appear and develop. Otherwise, the development of mankind would have stopped long ago. Example: in 2017, VIAM (All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials) developed GOST R 57558-2017 / ISO / ASTM 52900: 2015 “Additive technological processes”. Those. issues of standardization and implementation of 3D printing reached the state level.
        By the way, in VIAM a working prototype of a gas turbine engine was printed, look what a delight, Mask is resting!

        Quote: sogdy
        If cho, dislocations are not removed by heat treatment, but only by thermomechanics (forging).
        This is unscientific nonsense.

        This is a screenshot from the textbook of L.S. Livshits for engineers (in case you personally do not believe me). That is, they do not “remove” dislocations through TMT, but rather increase their number!
        Further. When polymorphic transformations occur during heat treatment, the lattice is rearranged: bcc (volume-centered cubic) <-> fcc (face-centered cubic), the crystal lattice parameter changes - "a" (this is not alpha!), Which completely (!) Changes the density and distribution dislocations by volume of metal. In this case, the number of dislocations can both grow and decrease. If the metal does not undergo polymorphic transformations, then there are processes of recrystallization / recrystallization, the grain boundaries, on which the majority of lattice defects (dislocations) are located, are displaced, which again completely changes the metal dislocation structure and relieves stress.

        How many times to tell you - read specialized literature. Even 5th year students at any technical university do not allow themselves to carry such heresy.
  • Sky
    Sky April 21 2019 16: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: Tusv
    And how do the principles of the Dragon differ from the Father of all space ships of the East ?. Ruffles in design?
    the fact that the Union’s emergency rescue system was implemented according to the pulling pattern of solid rocket engines, and the Dragon installed 8 liquid engines located in the body of the apparatus according to the pushing pattern. Those. systems have a completely different concept. At the same time, the SAS of the Union has been worked out over many decades both in tests on the ground and in real conditions, while the SAS of the Dragon is only just born in agony. These are the "little things in design."
    However, why do you need all these subtleties, you will still earn your pluses, as I will my minuses.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl April 21 2019 18: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Skye
      the fact that the Union’s emergency rescue system was implemented according to the pulling pattern of solid rocket engines, and the Dragon installed 8 liquid engines located in the body of the apparatus according to the pushing pattern.
      Well, compare the Union with Apollo, his contemporary. But our sworn friends went further and try to combine the CAC with the landing module. But Uri-patriots do not see this. Yes, and landing the step is a way to drain, say, excess LV power for a manned flight and use full power if necessary. And no one canceled the development of landing on another planet with a subsequent launch.
      But you cheers patriots rejoice temporary enemy failures despite already permanent failures of our Roskosmos.
      As already said about the "dead cow" - it’s stupid to rejoice at it when it’s near death.
    2. Tusv
      Tusv April 21 2019 22: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Skye
      However, why do you need all these subtleties, you will still earn your pluses, as I will my minuses.

      I don’t put the cons fundamentally. This is contrary to my beliefs. Yes, and freedom of speech, damn it. If we are not talking about outright fascism and blasphemy of my homeland
  • Simargl
    Simargl April 22 2019 03: 43 New
    -2
    Quote: Tusv
    And how do the principles of the Dragon differ from the Father of all spaceships of the East?
    Slightly less than everyone.
  • Madjestik85
    Madjestik85 April 23 2019 15: 52 New
    +1
    Do not want to compare KK Dragon with KK Federation? I even know why - the project has been under development for 20 years, but only things are still there. Over these 20 years, more than 100 billion rubles have been spent, and the project itself has already been renamed three times. But this is not an internet connection, so let's compare how you want.
    What are the differences between the Dragon and the Union? Well let's see:
    firstly: in Dragon you can place 7 people (and this is an option instead of people you can place additional cargo).
    secondly: KK Dragon is able to return to Earth much more payload than the Union.
    thirdly: this is a reusable ship, what is the fundamental difference.
    fourthly: it is much more convenient and spacious for the crew. no need to use signs for navigation and control, as in the Union.

    PS the need to create a new spacecraft was understood in the Soviet Union and in 1985 began the Zarya project, but the reduction in funding and then the collapse of the Union destroyed all these plans.
    PPS if everything was as good as you might think after reading some comments, then why would ours have been unsuccessfully trying for 20 years to create a new modern ship? really solely for the purpose of cutting? or are they so stupid that they spend energy and money on developing a new spacecraft when there is such an “ideal” spacecraft for the Union?
  • topear
    topear April 21 2019 19: 45 New
    -1
    Do not argue with him dear! He has a brain patriotism! Other features have atrophied! There is no logic at all!
    1. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 07: 06 New
      0
      Quote: topear
      He has a brain patriotism!
      Patriotism is a principle, but cheers-patriotism is a diagnosis.
  • topear
    topear April 21 2019 19: 44 New
    +2
    Until the end of the year they will fly on a dragon with a crew!
    1. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 07: 07 New
      0
      If even after a year - how will this help the federation and our manned space program?
      1. topear
        topear April 24 2019 13: 40 New
        0
        No way! It will only worsen the situation in the Russian Federation with astronautics!
        1. Simargl
          Simargl April 24 2019 17: 03 New
          0
          I would like you to be very mistaken! However, the situation with the Union, when even more than 30 years ago it became clear that it was too small, did not have enough money or political will to move to the next level.
          Waiting for the Federation?
          1. topear
            topear April 24 2019 17: 31 New
            -1
            While the trampoline thrower and its effective managers are at the helm, nothing will change! The worst thing is that over time you can’t catch up with the West!
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt April 21 2019 15: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Skye
    There was no manned flight.

    Here is the most important thing. However, here Maskovskie hamsters, in full tearing all parts of the body to the British flag, with foam at the mouth, prove that America is "ahead". Here again, the flight was postponed. It is a fact, and everything else, the speculation of lovers of America,
  • core
    core April 21 2019 22: 35 New
    -2
    You dude do not confuse cargo dragane and passenger. manned in automatic mode, only the cancer flew to the ISS. and before that, only in the form of a truck, like our progress. there’s nowhere in a hurry, our WORLD flies, and delivers astronauts, but the Americans, they don’t fly on any dragon, and the astronauts are delivered on our WORLD.
    1. Sky
      Sky April 22 2019 18: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: core
      our WORLD is flying

      I immediately remembered the joke born after the descent from the orbit and the flooding of the Mir orbital station - "While our spaceships plow the expanses of the Pacific ..."
      Are you talking about her now, man?
  • kuznec
    kuznec April 21 2019 15: 58 New
    +4
    For some VO residents singing the praises of Mask, the main “news” is that after all, Mask and NASA are one. And all the technology Mask provided for free. And do not hide now. And then "Mask himself!" "NASA has nothing to do with it!" And then the joint otmaza for the joint. :-)) I apologize for the jargon, but emotionally very accurately corresponds, IMHO.
    1. Madjestik85
      Madjestik85 April 23 2019 15: 59 New
      0
      NASA is the customer of manned flights and the main regulator of the space industry in the United States. Therefore, they work together on the investigation (and for the objectivity of the investigation as well). And it’s not at all because of why you invented it here ...
  • Plate
    Plate April 21 2019 17: 07 New
    +1
    Wow, they also work on hydrazine and nitrogen tetraoxide. wassat
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith April 21 2019 17: 58 New
    -2
    Quote: 777-3-59-97
    American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

    As always, a loud headline does not match the description of the news.

    Come on, invent something! Usually, after failed trials, the Americans send a living crew immediately, even to the moon !! laughing
  • Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul April 21 2019 23: 55 New
    -1
    Purely IMHO, but instead of joy over the failures of the Americans, it would be better with tripled persistence to bring your ship “Federation” and new missiles, about which I was tired of reading the news that “they will not do this missile, but will be different. Again from scratch. "

    The Americans will finish off a new ship and a new rocket. They print the money themselves, how much is needed.
    Now, when they do fly, the main thing is for us not to stay with the old "Unions" and the reincarnation of P7 ourselves.
    1. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 11: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: Horse, people and soul
      The Americans will finish off a new ship and a new rocket. They print the money themselves, how much is needed.

      Horse, how do these two statements converge? For reality, alas, is not satisfied with Syur's papers.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul April 22 2019 17: 31 New
        +2
        Converge for Roskosmos, converge for NASA-Mask. If there is money, there will be a result. No money - there will be no moon. Passed already.
        1. sogdy
          sogdy April 22 2019 17: 54 New
          -2
          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          If there is money, there will be a result. No money - there will be no moon.

          The key is money. And not pieces of paper. Real materials / services for which you can buy real materials. Not the year 1942. And not conquered countries that have no nifig and they owe everything.
          Taki selenium for cut paper is not for sale - only for gold. Or another chenzh.
          If you ask, what does selenium have to do with it, you will become completely uninteresting.
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul April 22 2019 18: 31 New
            -1
            Money or gold is not the essence. No budget - no work.

            Alas.

            Though selenium, even titanium, even uranium-235.
          2. Simargl
            Simargl April 27 2019 07: 53 New
            -1
            Quote: sogdy
            Real materials / services for which you can buy real materials.
            They have security for their cut colored paper.
            And this is not gold.
            1. sogdy
              sogdy April 27 2019 15: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Simargl
              They have security for their cut colored paper.

              For whom? Who does this collateral recognize?
              1. Simargl
                Simargl April 27 2019 16: 44 New
                -1
                Quote: sogdy
                Who does this collateral recognize?
                Those. see who picked up this waste paper, which means - recognized it as a means of payment, you can not? Then I can’t help you.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac April 22 2019 21: 14 New
          -1
          Quote: Horse, people and soul
          Converge for Roskosmos, converge for NASA-Mask. If there is money, there will be a result. No money - there will be no moon. Passed already.

          Passed already ...
          Roskosmos has opportunities but no desire to fly to the moon.
          NASA has a desire - but there is no way to fly to the moon.
          In this case, desire is money, opportunity is technology, to the moon is the figurative name for achievements in space.
          Everything is like in a joke about a prostitute homosexual and an old man.
          1. Horse, people and soul
            Horse, people and soul April 22 2019 21: 29 New
            -2
            Roskosmos has opportunities but no desire to fly to the moon.


            Does Roskosmos have the opportunity to fly to the moon? In what reality? There is no ship. There are no superheavy missiles. Instead of Korolev - Rogozin.

            Are you kidding me like that?

            And why NASA does not have the opportunity? The opportunity is just real with financing.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 22 2019 21: 54 New
              -1
              Quote: Horse, people and soul
              Does Roskosmos have the opportunity to fly to the moon?

              Apparently you are a foreigner, since you know Russian poorly.
              Quote: Setrac
              "to the moon" is the figurative name for achievements in space.
              1. Horse, people and soul
                Horse, people and soul April 22 2019 22: 14 New
                +1
                Of course, you can invent your own personal “Russian language”, but in literary Russian “to the moon” always meant and means “to the moon”.

                hi
                1. sogdy
                  sogdy April 23 2019 14: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Horse, people and soul
                  but in literary Russian

                  What else would you think up? Not knowing idioms is an agent failure.
                2. Setrac
                  Setrac April 23 2019 19: 31 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Horse, people and soul
                  but in literary Russian "to the moon" always meant and means "to the moon."

                  You confuse a literary language with a technical one.
                  If you were right, then calling your wife a bunny - her rabbit ears should grow, go check if you have grown - you are right.
  • pytar
    pytar April 22 2019 17: 09 New
    +1
    SpaseX successfully tested the Crew Dragon rescue system back in 2015.

    In its current version, there are changes and modifications that are being tested. The normal procedure is not without good luck. Correct problems and continue forward.
    Who would not say what, Crew Dragon is really handsome!
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul April 22 2019 18: 32 New
      0
      And the Vietnamese will fit there twice as much. And the Baltic states are half as much. The Balts love to travel so that no one is sitting nearby.

      laughing
  • loki565
    loki565 April 23 2019 09: 25 New
    -1
    How not to match ??? The ship was torn apart by an explosion, what else can it be called? just a test failure.
  • Madjestik85
    Madjestik85 April 23 2019 15: 23 New
    0
    I completely agree about the loud heading .. apparently this is the trend now (or a paid order). To criticize and ridicule the development of foreign countries, if only they themselves would not do anything and use Soviet developments until the end of time.
  • Fedorov
    Fedorov April 21 2019 10: 47 New
    +8
    The principle is simple - if you don’t shoot or are not satisfied, then take a Kalashnikov assault rifle, nothing new. wink Similarly.
    1. viralig
      viralig April 21 2019 11: 17 New
      +6
      AK is certainly good. I've been watching dragons for a long time - they learned to fly too fast. No matter how good engineers are, it is not possible to foresee everything. It’s just better to be driven on trials on the ground than to ruin people during the flight. And our Unions are good, but as long as you can stagnate in one place, while declaring ambitious plans for the exploration of the Moon and more distant about the flight to Mars.
      1. Genry
        Genry April 21 2019 14: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: viralig
        No matter how good engineers are, it is not possible to foresee everything.

        Good engineers?
        What a freak could decide to control the roll of the capsule with four spaced engines. With such power it is impossible to achieve smooth regulation, there will be dips and sneezes and the capsule will fly somersaults.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 17: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Fedorov
      The principle is simple - if you don’t shoot or are not satisfied, then take a Kalashnikov assault rifle

      In the source - "take a carbine."
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich April 21 2019 10: 48 New
    -1
    Great..
    1. 210ox
      210ox April 21 2019 10: 51 New
      +8
      What’s strange? For example, I don’t care what they didn’t grow together. The main thing is happening in the space industry. And it’s not ice ...
      1. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 13: 49 New
        -3
        The collective conscience of Russia?
        Ah, they didn’t recognize it the first time, they thought it was a liver.
      2. Genry
        Genry April 21 2019 14: 03 New
        -4
        Quote: 210ox
        The main thing is happening in the space industry, but not ice ...

        You will write about this even in children's topics about ice cream.
    2. Observer2014
      Observer2014 April 21 2019 11: 01 New
      -4
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Great..
      laughing wassat laughing How long is it "weird"? Yes, in general, they are tested to identify flaws. By the way, is this dragon similar to anything developed earlier? Purely for general development.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 13: 50 New
        -3
        For a long time - not for long.
        Everything is ours.
        But you can certainly not wait, but go to the square. Power will run away - and then spacecraft will immediately begin to be built.
        True true.
        1. Observer2014
          Observer2014 April 21 2019 16: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Mestny
          For a long time - not for long.
          Everything is ours.
          But you can certainly not wait, but go to the square. Power will run away - and then spacecraft will immediately begin to be built.
          True true.

          Are you just me? Or someone else
          210query (Dmitry)
          What’s strange? For example, I don’t care what they didn’t grow together. The main thing is happening in the space industry. And it’s not ice ...
          For example. What does not grow together about the area? laughing What Seryozha, out full and break the template, Look for a new warm hive for yourself.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 21 2019 10: 48 New
    +14
    In the meantime, have to fly on Russian ships. Still, it’s somehow strange - in the late 60s they seemed to fly to the Moon, and today they can’t go into orbit not only to the Moon, but also to orbit. But what about the old developments? Oh yes, the drawings are lost, the specialists have evaporated ...
    1. vasilii
      vasilii April 21 2019 10: 52 New
      -5
      The drawings of the 60s are of little use for engines made by 3D printing. The design is made for a specific production technology.
      1. rotmistr60
        rotmistr60 April 21 2019 10: 55 New
        +7
        And they did not try to do with little hands? When there is nothing to fly on, you can do it the old-fashioned way with your hands with the help of bright heads.
        1. vasilii
          vasilii April 21 2019 11: 02 New
          -3
          It would make sense to arrange a rush instead of long work for the future if they expected that they could block access to the ISS. But they, apparently, believe that this will not happen.
          1. Mestny
            Mestny April 21 2019 13: 52 New
            0
            About how!
            And here again, ours is all bad!
            Carried into space - bad, we must stop.
            They don’t carry it - it’s bad again, they lagged behind the USA.
            1. Madjestik85
              Madjestik85 April 23 2019 16: 19 New
              +1
              Instead of being malicious, you would be wondering what these tens of millions of dollars are spent on for delivering astronauts to the ISS, and who are they spending? even Rogozin was interested in and criticized this, and you have already played so much with patriots and critics of other people's space projects that you don’t even know what is happening in our own space industry
        2. sogdy
          sogdy April 22 2019 11: 25 New
          0
          Quote: rotmistr60
          And they did not try to do with little hands?

          And they don’t have a tool. And there is no one to do.
      2. sabakina
        sabakina April 21 2019 11: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: vasilii
        The drawings of the 60s are of little use for engines made by 3D printing. The design is made for a specific production technology.

        Tell me, Vasya, but what, a bearing made on a 3D printer can no longer be crammed into, say, the axis of the GAZ-69 bridge? will he not spin?
        1. vasilii
          vasilii April 21 2019 11: 16 New
          -11
          Can. Will be. But not all dimensions in the drawings of the nodes are dimensional and connecting.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina April 21 2019 11: 23 New
            +5
            Sorry, I didn’t understand ... What, it is impossible to maintain the dimensions according to the drawings of the 3s on a 60D printer?
            1. vasilii
              vasilii April 21 2019 11: 32 New
              -7
              On the one hand it happens that it is impossible. On the other hand, why on a 3D printer to print a part with all sorts of sprues, shanks for installation on a lathe, stops for assembling parts, etc.? These are all compromises that you have to make for the sake of technological effectiveness. Each technology has its own.
              1. Genry
                Genry April 21 2019 14: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: vasilii
                On the other hand, why on a 3D printer to print a part with all sorts of sprues, shanks for installation on a lathe, stops for assembling parts, etc.?

                You confuse product drawings and routings.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx April 21 2019 11: 25 New
          +5
          Quote: sabakina
          Tell me, Vasya, but what, a bearing made on a 3D printer can no longer be crammed into, say, the axis of the GAZ-69 bridge? will he not spin?

          Will ... but not for long ... request This is not only a matter of composition, but also of hardening, which is hardly possible on a printer ...
          1. sabakina
            sabakina April 21 2019 11: 29 New
            +3
            ROSS 42, Vasya wrote that it will be long. He prints engines on 3D! wink
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 April 21 2019 11: 44 New
              +3
              Quote: sabakina
              He prints engines on 3D!

              The Chinese are already printing cars on 3 D. It would be interesting to see this miracle. Live.
          2. Sky
            Sky April 21 2019 13: 22 New
            +1
            Hardening is done not on the printer, but by traditional methods after printing the part. Heat treatment - in some cases, an indispensable element of 3D printing technology.
      3. Genry
        Genry April 21 2019 14: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: vasilii
        The drawings of the 60s are of little use for engines made by 3D printing.

        Drawings can simply be "digitized" with pens.
        If they were, then tech students would have done it a long time ago.
        1. Sky
          Sky April 21 2019 14: 50 New
          +1
          The point is not in the drawings, but in the technology for the production of parts. And technology is materials, equipment, sequence of operations, and most importantly - parameters of technological processing modes. A lot of this can be lost for a long time and restoration is not advisable. And with your approach to the problem, you can give the Su-57 Chinese, in a month they will make all the drawings and it will fly. Nifiga will not fly, and if it does, then with a significant decrease in performance, because original technology not available.
          1. Genry
            Genry April 21 2019 15: 01 New
            +4
            Quote: Skye
            The point is not in the drawings, but in the technology for the production of parts.

            Everything was forgotten and degraded right away, but at the same time, the same thing is being done, but in a different guise, with other constructive solutions.
            No, my friend. If the engines of the Saturn rocket could not provide the necessary power and efficiency, then how not to upgrade them, what technologies do not apply, their unsuitability will not disappear. USSR designers on this profile simply laughed quietly at the Americans.
            And when they looked at living conditions in the living capsule of the ship, then ....
            1. Simargl
              Simargl April 22 2019 18: 17 New
              +2
              Quote: Genry
              Everything was forgotten and degraded right
              You can be.
              Damask technology was forgotten and “degraded”, although it was made by people who knew almost nothing not just about metals, but even about the composition of their material! So what was the problem of repeating it?
              Take the “Victory” car, excellent for its time. How much will it cost serial technology vehicle of time? Who will buy it?
              You had an archaic, expensive engine in production, you used it somehow. But after a while you began to use a simpler and more powerful solution, moreover, reusable.
              Back to the old engine, given that there is a more economical solution?
              You try to think!
              The times of F-1 engines have passed - too many qualified personnel are needed for its production. Recently, they opened the F-1 TNA, analyzed and decided that there was nothing to take for the idea - technical solutions went ahead.

              Quote: Genry
              but the same thing is being done now
              You are wrong. From tubular COP depart everywhere: easy, but expensive and not technological. However, it may happen that they come up with something and return to such ... but rather to detonation and / or wedge-air.
              And if you haven’t noticed, they are trying to switch to hydrogen and methane.

              Quote: Genry
              with other design solutions.
              You already decide: food or a machine gun? Smoke powder or pyroxylin?

              Quote: Genry
              If the engines of the Saturn rocket could not provide the necessary power and efficiency, then how not to upgrade them, what technologies do not apply, their unsuitability will not disappear.
              And who said that? Where is the opinion of a specialist (namely a specialist in engines, and not “Fomenko and Nosovsky” from rocket science)?
              The only thing you can’t argue with is efficiency, which, to date, is nothing.
              Like the "Victory".

              Quote: Genry
              USSR designers on this profile simply laughed quietly at the Americans.
              You give a reference to the material. Or is it a fake?
              We didn’t make light engines with a tubular cooling system, but did it from solid milled shirts — these engines are heavier, they cannot be made large like F-1 (don’t bother - КС РД-170 is much smaller than КС F-1), but for that they are more economical due to the many times higher pressure in the compressor station.
              And how could they “laugh” if the N-1 did not fly? What are the “laughter” if the RD-170 later appeared, which has more power and pressure on the CS than the NK-15? What nonsense is the ignoramus?

              Quote: Genry
              And when they looked at living conditions in the living capsule of the ship, then ....
              This is when competitors lost the test capsule? So what? Is it better in the Union?
              Nonsense about “peppy” astronauts, too, would be worth filtering: conspiracy flies show their peppy appearance 1-2 hours after landing. After less than two weeks in space. No less vigorous astronauts after 3-12 months on the ISS! Watch the video, notice the details, and do not eat slops from conspirators.
              1. Genry
                Genry April 22 2019 19: 41 New
                -1
                Quote: Simargl
                Damask technology was forgotten and “degraded”, although it was made by people who knew almost nothing not just about metals, but even about the composition of their material! So what was the problem of repeating it?

                Nothing was forgotten. It is necessary to discard the tales that were attributed to him and make a multi-layer blade from a pair of grades of good steel. It's just that no one needs blades now. In Japan, where the interest in edged weapons has not faded away, such swords are forged to order. Expensive but there.
                Quote: Simargl
                How much will a production car produced by technologies of that time cost? Who will buy it?

                “Victory” was a good and successful car. And there they just applied the technologies that are used now: a welded body made of stamped parts. There, the novelty was the rejection of the supporting frame, like that of trucks.
                And the “Victory” disappeared, because it was sold with giblets and with all previously released cars.
                Quote: Simargl
                The times of F-1 engines have passed - too many qualified personnel are needed for its production.

                You're talking about phones bryak ...
                Just the development of all technology goes along the path of complication and modern engines are much more complicated and more expensive to manufacture. The gain is in the parameters, in handling, traction stability and reliability.
                Quote: Simargl
                From tubular COP depart everywhere: easy, but expensive and not technological. However, it may happen that they come up with something and return to such ... but rather to detonation and / or wedge-air.
                And if you haven’t noticed, they are trying to switch to hydrogen and methane.

                Tubular works and Americans liked the simplicity of the technology.
                Your wedge ... is just an in-line engine. And then they are trying to curry favor.
                Gases have tried before. And hydrogen in large quantities is dangerous - very fluid and can quickly create a dangerous concentration on the launcher - one spark and there is nothing.
                Quote: Simargl
                You are wrong. From tubular COP depart everywhere: easy, but expensive and not technological.

                Who is afraid of the complexity of production - does not depart.
                Quote: Simargl
                and made from solid milled shirts - these engines are heavier, they cannot be made large, like F-1

                They were made by casting with a slight processing of the weld place.
                Quote: Simargl
                And who said that? Where is the opinion of a specialist (namely a specialist in engines, and not “Fomenko and Nosovsky” from rocket science)?
                The only thing you can’t argue with is efficiency, which, to date, is nothing.
                Like the "Victory".

                Just Fomenko and Nosov, I believe than stupid crampons from history, which simply accumulated errors and myths.
                I did not understand about efficiency, to which engine the complaint.
                And Victory, without a supporting frame, was much lighter than other cars of that time, because it consumed less gas and accelerated better.
                Quote: Simargl
                You give a reference to the material. Or is it a fake?

                I won’t let you stumble over time yourself. In the meantime, consider yourself a saint.
                Quote: Simargl
                such engines are heavier, it is impossible to make them big like F-1 (do not bother - КС РД-170 is much smaller than КС F-1)

                Soviet / Russian engines do not do bigger, because there are physics limitations.
                Just as in a piston engine there is an optimum size of 0,5 liters per cylinder, so in a rocket engine there is an optimum size for one nozzle. Here NK-33 and its derivatives were just made in this size. That's why our engine laughed at F-1. Not only was there no burning of turbine gases in it, there was such a huge size of combustion chambers that the fuel simply did not have time to mix and burn more completely.
                Quote: Simargl
                And how could they “laugh” if the N-1 did not fly?

                IMHO, N-1 did not fly for political reasons. They just didn’t give her ....
                But the Saturns suddenly began to carry to the moon, without a single successful start after a series of accidents.
                Quote: Simargl
                So what? Is it better in the Union?

                Yes. Volume per person is many times greater. And there was always a toilet.
                Quote: Simargl
                Nonsense about “peppy” astronauts, too, would be worth filtering: conspiroles show their peppy appearance 1-2 hours after landing. After less than two weeks in space.

                Well, if the Soviet cosmonauts could look like Americans, then they would not say anything to you. There is a fact of a medical condition.
                Quote: Simargl
                No less vigorous astronauts after 3-12 months on the ISS!

                You are blinded. Despite all the physical exercises with a load equal to that of the earth, they still crawl out of the capsule or are pulled out of there.
                Quote: Simargl
                Watch the video, notice the details, and do not eat slops from conspirators.

                Turn on the brain. The facts are stronger than what you want to believe. There is no god.
                And the US has always used deception to achieve its goals.
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl April 22 2019 21: 21 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Genry
                  Just Fomenko and Nosov I believe
                  In private conversation, I would answer with one word: "- I see." Forgery, juggling facts, mixing concepts, pulling an owl on a globe is their thing.

                  Quote: Genry
                  It is necessary to discard the tales that were attributed to him and make a multi-layer blade from a pair of grades of good steel.
                  Damask steel - it is different. The cast technology was just forgotten. What was restored is different: in composition, technology, and properties. Not always worse, often better than the ancients.
                  And as for the concept of a "fairy tale," it’s more careful: they are meaner than it was stored in memory.

                  Quote: Genry
                  In Japan, where the interest in edged weapons has not faded away, such swords are forged to order. Expensive but there.
                  In Europe, in-line production of damask steel (multilayer), including stainless steel. Do tons.
                  In Russia, much less, but they also do it - almost any blacksmith doesn’t really do puff damascus. More precisely, any man of arms, including women and children. With cast everything is worse - here the mind, knowledge, luck, etc. necessary.

                  Quote: Genry
                  And there they just applied the technologies that are used now: a welded body made of stamped parts.
                  Eh ... you do not understand what it is about! I repeat: for those technologies it turns out more expensive! Almost everything is the same, but too much fit and manual labor!

                  Quote: Genry
                  And the “Victory” disappeared, because it was sold with giblets and with all previously released cars.
                  Yeah! The hand of the damned capitalism. Or just nonsense. She disappeared because she was out of date.

                  Quote: Genry
                  Just the development of all technology goes along the path of complication and modern engines are much more complicated and more expensive to manufacture.
                  Rave! Production is being optimized. Modern engines are easier and cheaper to manufacture! The exception is the engines on which the technology is tested, but they are also designed to save, in the end.

                  Quote: Genry
                  And Victory, without a supporting frame, was much lighter than other cars of that time, because it consumed less gas and accelerated better.
                  Come on the wrong side: firstly, I indicated that today It’s expensive to make a car using the technology of the 50s, and you are trying with all your strength to turn out and be at least somehow right. Do not bother.
                  The F-1 was much more advanced than the V-2 FRE, so what?

                  Quote: Genry
                  I won’t let you stumble over time yourself.
                  Those. Do you refuse to provide material that fully justifies you?
                  If I do not find him on several attempts, can I consider you a fake player? I can, obviously.
                  Here's the thing: I read this information (about the laughter of the designers) many times in the opuses of the conspirators, but no one has ever provided at least some link to something close in meaning. In this, you can define you as a booby-fake-meter - this is not an insult, but a definition: you are booby (you are being deceived, and you are even happy about it), you are a fake-ball (you defend and disseminate unverified, false data).

                  Quote: Genry
                  In the meantime, consider yourself a saint.
                  That is why the nape itches! Nimbus cuts through!

                  Quote: Genry
                  Tubular works and Americans liked the simplicity of the technology.
                  Kilometers of responsible weld? Heh! Well, take an interest in how much it costs to make just a technological model (take similar materials and craft a similar object in a similar way) - even without seam control, the price will be - like an aircraft carrier.

                  Quote: Genry
                  Your wedge ... is just an in-line engine.
                  Fir-trees! Yes, you at least take a look at brechopedia! Or do not even have enough qualifications to digest that information? Then what kind of udder-born are you in the technical field trying to expose your unquestioned opinion?
                  Quote: Genry
                  Gases have tried before
                  What gases ?!
                  You do not own information at all!
                  Hydrogen - still on Saturn, if that, and then on the Space Shuttle (I hope they still do not refuse to exist?) - that healthy red tank is hydrogen and oxygen, if that.
                  And there were no accidents with hydrogen - Challenger covered himself with TTU.
                  Methane is simply a cheap and fairly high-calorie fuel with a simplified feed system.
                  High-boiling components, like Proton's, are even more explosive than hydrogen! Learn the mat. part. They are also self-igniting.

                  Quote: Genry
                  Soviet / Russian engines do not do bigger, because there are physics limitations.
                  Is it true? And what, if not secret? Secret? Or you don’t know - did the conspiratorians tell you a secret?

                  Quote: Genry
                  Just as in a piston engine there is an optimal size of 0,5 liters per cylinder, so in a rocket engine there is an optimal size for one nozzle.
                  Yeah! and engine builders don’t even know! Let’s omit the funny cylinders of lawn mowers and ship engines ... look at the engines of small cars and trucks, we scratch our reputation ...

                  Quote: Genry
                  Not only was there no burning of turbine gases in it, there was such a huge size of the combustion chambers that the fuel simply did not have time to mix and burn more completely.
                  I didn’t understand something: how does the gas after TNA and incomplete combustion of fuel relate? Do you understand what this is about?
                  I see, deliriously, that there isn’t: F-1, like Merlin, for example, the gas after TNA, after it unwound, is simply dumped (watch the video from Merlin’s tests - there’s garbage on the side - it), and in ours - it is thrown into the cop and cools the nozzle. The quality of mixing fuel and its combustion has nothing to do with it! Moreover, according to archival frames, fuel burns just wonderfully (qualitatively).
                  The quality of mixing depends on the supply pressure and the design of the nozzles (you can still remember, but the gas after the TNA has nothing to do with it)!

                  Quote: Genry
                  But the Saturns suddenly began to carry to the moon, without a single successful start after a series of accidents.
                  How many accidents? Apollo 003. And yet? Apollo 13?
                  Are you lying again, booby fake gun?
                  1. Genry
                    Genry April 23 2019 00: 51 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Forgery, juggling facts, mixing concepts, pulling an owl on a globe is their thing.

                    Do not write to yourself. And write about them specifically. Because you can’t breach and prove.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    The cast technology was just forgotten.

                    Yeah ... did you even realize that you froze? Show at least one cast sword. How do you wrap a cast blade around your belt? He is falling apart.
                    Forging is a basic action to improve the performance of a metal. And damask steel has always been multi-layered, where solid steel alternated with viscous. Therefore, with the strongest blows, the blade did not crack but was firm at the edge and elastic in length. And there’s no need to make damask steel out of stainless steel. Her characteristics are rather weak. Damask steel made of black steel does not rust either, due to exposure to the etching solution a protective film is formed.
                    So you don’t know a damn thing. Just throw superficial information and make yourself so great.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    I repeat: for those technologies it turns out more expensive! Almost everything is the same, but too much fit and manual labor!

                    There were fewer parts for those technologies and it was easier to assemble. There were no designer complex curves and it was possible to produce small series of cars at a low price. A modern car is too complicated and time-consuming and comes to a reasonable price only thanks to the assembly automation in mass production.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Come on the wrong side: firstly, I pointed out that today it’s expensive to make a car using the technology of the 50s, and you are trying to turn out with all your might and turn out to be somehow right.

                    This is you. You have not noticed that you have begun to state the opposite.
                    You came in with the statement that everything that was done before (rocket engines) is very difficult to do now, because it is more complicated than modern products. And modern technology is simply primitively assembled.
                    And I’m telling you that the old one is no more complicated and if you use the same serialization and automation, it will still be easier and much cheaper.
                    And F-1 can generally be cheaply stamped on the conveyor.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Those. Do you refuse to provide material that fully justifies you?

                    And where did I make excuses? I just didn’t search, because I don’t remember where I won’t find this very second. Rejoice that they didn’t give you the link. You don’t provide anything at all except your chatter. Nothing!
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Yes, you at least take a look at brechopedia!

                    I know - this is your favorite source of delirium.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    You do not own information at all!
                    Hydrogen - still on Saturn, if that,

                    Only at the second and third steps. I told you that in large quantities, and this is about the first stage of a large rocket. No one has yet decided on this suicide.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    High-boiling components, like Proton's, are even more explosive than hydrogen!

                    You realized that you froze again. See boiling points ...
                    Quote: Simargl
                    They are also self-igniting.

                    Need a leak of two components.
                    Hydrogen is much more volatile and dangerous, because it has a low ignition or detonation energy.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Is it true? And what, if not secret? Secret?

                    Secrets are everywhere for fools.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Let’s omit the funny cylinders of lawn mowers and ship engines ... look at the engines of small cars and trucks, we scratch our reputation ...

                    Well already combed to the tail.
                    Why do 12 cylinder and more, although you can only 4 of the same total volume.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    I didn’t understand something: how does the gas after TNA and incomplete combustion of fuel relate?

                    And you read in Russian shitty.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    At F-1, like Merlin, for example, the gas after TNA, after he unwound it, is simply discharged

                    And in most Russian engines, it is displayed in the combustion chamber and is "burned out" there. This greatly improves engine efficiency. At 100 tons of fuel, 1% economy, will give one ton of additional payload. And we are talking about 3-5%.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    The quality of mixing fuel and its combustion has nothing to do with it! Moreover, according to archival frames, fuel burns just wonderfully (qualitatively).

                    Wonderful? So we state the oxidizer overconsumption and increased engine burn-out. The oxidizing agent also has weight.
                    Practice shows that mixing small volumes is simpler and better than large ones.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    How many accidents? Apollo 003. And yet? Apollo 13?

                    And here is Apollo. Test launches of Saturn, even before the "lunar missions."
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl April 23 2019 07: 03 New
                      0
                      Quote: Genry
                      Do you even understand that you froze? Show at least one cast sword. How do you wrap a cast blade around your belt? He is falling apart.
                      I said about the sword ?! I talked about cast damask steel! If you do not understand, ask the wiki.

                      Quote: Genry
                      Her characteristics are rather weak.
                      Let’s do this: You will not drive the blizzard in areas that you do not understand. Only read specialized literature.
                      At least they asked the manufacturers.
                      There is such a company - A&R (not advertising, but it seems) it has several options for weatherproof puffs. Look for Zladinox.

                      Quote: Genry
                      Just throw superficial information and make yourself so great.
                      Not superficial, but almost basic: we take my mention of "Cast Damascus Steel Technology", insert it into a search engine - yandex.ru/search/?text=Technology%20cast%20 Bulat Damascus Steel
                      And what do we see? The first, second, third link - strictly on the topic. Study.

                      Quote: Genry
                      A modern car is too complicated and time-consuming and comes to an affordable price only thanks to automation mass production builds.
                      Here! But you can’t comprehend this.

                      Quote: Genry
                      You came in with the statement that everything that was done before (rocket engines) is very difficult to do now, because it is more complicated than modern products.
                      Why misinterpret? I pointed out that the manufacturing technology specifically F-1 is not too technological.

                      Quote: Genry
                      And you read in Russian shitty.

                      Quote: Genry
                      This greatly improves engine efficiency.
                      I repeat for a poorly understood read text of a technical ignoramus: gas from TNA in no way does not affect the quality of fuel combustion in the compressor station !!! NO!!! If only because it is added behind her! And about a common I agreed on efficiency, and this is one of the reasons why there is no point in F-1 today!

                      Quote: Genry
                      Wonderful? So we state the oxidizer overconsumption and increased engine burn-out. The oxidizing agent also has weight.
                      Mixing up concepts again? You say that fuel burns out not efficiently! Or effective, but at the expense of a deterioration in the ratio? You decide on the statements!
                      I have already noted above that the fuel efficiency of the F-1 is low for modern times. What else is needed? Do you want to win the argument by forging and mixing concepts?

                      Quote: Genry
                      Practice shows that mixing small volumes is simpler and better than large ones.
                      Oh how! Now understand the topic rocket engine nozzle.

                      Quote: Genry
                      And here is Apollo
                      The Apollon Program is the NASA US Space Agency manned spaceflight program, adopted in 1961 with the goal of making the first manned moon landing
                      The Saturn-5 launch program is included in it, if that.
                      But still! In addition to the Apollon-1 accident (AS-204) with the Saturn 1B LV, what other accidents did it take?
                      And then Apollon 8, 9, 10 went fine. Even 7, in general.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Simargl
                  Simargl April 22 2019 21: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: Genry
                  Yes. Volume per person is many times greater. And there was always a toilet.
                  How to count? 12,7 for three and 8,5 for two? So the difference of 17 liters in our favor is not very much, and you can spoil, for the glory of the motherland, at least in the palm of your hand - they won’t write about it in the newspapers, they won’t show on the TV! This will be asked much later and very quietly. And even the president will not refuse to shake that palm in which there was a turd. So do not care whether he was or not: in ZK wagons there are also no pots.

                  Quote: Genry
                  Well, if the Soviet cosmonauts could look like Americans, then they would not say anything to you. There is a fact of a medical condition.
                  Which one? After the ISS, people walk almost normally, but there’s not a child’s term in space. But you do not care. Read about the state of the astronauts after the flight, what they did.
                  Although what I mean ...

                  Quote: Genry
                  You are blinded. Despite all the physical exercises with a load equal to that of the earth, they still crawl out of the capsule or are pulled out of there.
                  Am I blind? It is called procedure! This is such a sequence of duties and actions. So: in a normal situation, the astronauts sit and wait for the door (hatch) to be opened, they will take it out (if the spacecraft was on its side - maybe, if vertically - figs: you have to climb out yourself), they will put it in armchairs, they will measure the pressure, they will let the relative go .... but an emergency situation can happen, and they will be searched for a long time (now this is ridiculous, of course), it will probably have to survive, but it doesn’t lie in the side members, if that.

                  Quote: Genry
                  The facts are stronger than what you want to believe.
                  Well, provide them! There is no one against it! Just speculation, a juggling of facts, a lie ...

                  Quote: Genry
                  There is no god.
                  You're lying! A pasta monster will come for you!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Simargl
                      Simargl April 23 2019 05: 40 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Genry
                      So you have spoiled yourself. You shouldn’t read Wiki-something according to yours.
                      12,7 is the total volume with the lunar module. But in flight it is not available.
                      Rebuilding maneuver 3 hours after launch tongue

                      Quote: Genry
                      Provide primer, documentation, negatives ...
                      Everything that has been digitized has been posted. They don’t give out the ground to everyone, but you can see it. How can you determine whether it is lunar or not - a specialist?

                      Quote: Genry
                      NASA type response: yes hell knows where it went
                      This has never happened before. The big problems were with the recordings of the broadcast - they really were transferred for recovery to specialists from Hollywood.
                      1. Genry
                        Genry April 23 2019 13: 11 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Rebuilding maneuver 3 hours after the start of tongue

                        Bite your tongue.
                        From your Pedia:
                        At the beginning of the third working day Houston told astronauts that the planned course correction No. 3 would not be needed [74]. On the same day, Armstrong and Aldrin first switched to the lunar module and checked the status of its main systems.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Everything that has been digitized has been posted.

                        Such a home digitization. Originals where?
                        Quote: Simargl
                        They don’t give out the ground to everyone, but you can see it.

                        Everyone was given, only where are these to whom ....
                        Russia, for example, simply returned (one gram less) the one that it gave the United States even before the Apollo.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        How can you determine whether it is lunar or not - a specialist?

                        Scientists easily determine the anomalous polarization of reflected light.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        This has never happened before. The big problems were with the recordings of the broadcast - they really were transferred for recovery to specialists from Hollywood.

                        Only for some reason, the details of the spacesuits change all the time.
                        It’s like in crime documentaries filming scenes with the help of actors.
                      2. Simargl
                        Simargl April 24 2019 06: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: Genry
                        Originals where?
                        You will not believe! At NASA! This is in the USA.

                        Quote: Genry
                        Russia, for example, simply returned (one gram less) the one that it gave the United States even before the Apollo.
                        Where is it written? Is there an official source? I can say that 20 tons of lunar soil was stolen from me, which was transferred to me after a secret mission. Without documents, these are words.
                        A list of recipients is available. Ask those who received, as the words of all others are only words (at least in confirmation, at least against).

                        Quote: Genry
                        Scientists easily identify
                        Scientists or conspirators? Statements that there is no soil are not made by scientists, but by some people who have not even tried to study this soil! Well, there is not a single conspirator who tried to study what NASA announced as ground!

                        Quote: Genry
                        Only for some reason, the details of the spacesuits change all the time.
                        What time! Well, besides the fact that from mission to mission they really could change a little - what exactly is changing there?
                      3. Genry
                        Genry April 24 2019 13: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        You will not believe! At NASA! This is in the USA.

                        I see how many fakes this USA generates.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Where is it written? Is there an official source?

                        "In the USSR, the Institute of Geochemistry of the USSR Academy of Sciences was appointed the leading scientific organization for all lunar soil studies. This role is assigned to it today (now - GEOCHI RAS). Doctor of Science M.A. Nazarov (Fig. 2) reports that “the Americans transferred to the USSR 29,4 g of lunar regolith from all Apollo expeditions, and 16 g were issued abroad from our collection of Moon 20, 24, and 30,2 samples” [19].
                        (http://smirnovs.info/Mantomoon/16.htm) - there are more.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Statements that there is no soil are not made by scientists, but by some people who have not even tried to study this soil! Well, there is not a single conspirator who tried to study what NASA announced as ground!

                        Here you just carry chatter.
                        If there was soil, there would be no questions. None of those who studied these "samples"
                        did not write a scientific article. Everything is classified.
                        And it is your task to prove that there is soil. And by the facts and not by exhortations.
                        Quote: Simargl
                        Well, besides the fact that from mission to mission they really could change a little - what exactly is changing there?

                        Nobody talks about the difference between missions. This is already your level.
                        From the ninth minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPXjMued9E
                        This is just a snap. A lot of this ....
                      4. Simargl
                        Simargl April 24 2019 16: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: Genry
                        “29,4 grams of lunar regolith from all Apollo expeditions were transferred to the USSR by the Americans, and 16 grams were given abroad from our collection of Moon-20, 24, and 30,2 samples.”
                        Those. Americans managed to collect everything except 0,8g good ?

                        Quote: Genry
                        None of those who studied these "samples"
                        did not write a scientific article. Everything is classified.
                        Truth? curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lsc/lscref45.pdf

                        Quote: Genry
                        And it is your task to prove that there is soil.
                        What for?
                        Quote: Genry
                        And by the facts and not by exhortations.
                        But as? I don’t have it, you don’t have the knowledge and technology to check.

                        Quote: Genry
                        This is just offhand.
                        Maybe because the gear is different, because the insert without labels is a training one? The label then stuck to the current mission. Is it logical? Just in the photo before the flight, too, without a life label.
                        Enjoy: www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/albums/with/72157658592613769
                  2. Simargl
                    Simargl April 24 2019 10: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Genry
                    Bite your tongue.
                    I have a couple of questions overdue.
                    Here you are comparing volumes and not in our favor.
                    The inhabited volume of the East and Sunrise is approximately 1,6 m³. Mercury -1,7 m³, Gemini 2.55 m³. All of them were used at about the same time, i.e. are contemporaries.
                    1 - how do you comment on the fact that the East and Mercury have approximately the same volume, and Gemini is almost one and a half times the size of Voskhod, while, during the flight of Voskhod-2, there were 0,8 m³ per person (even less than 0,9, 18 m³), ​​while flights were planned up to 1 days! And at Voskhod-0,54 there was generally XNUMX m³ per person.
                    2 - how do you comment on the fact that Mercury and Dzhemeni had CAC, and the East and Sunrise - no?
                    And the third question has ripened:
                    3 - why is the CAC of the Union very similar to the CAC of Mercury?
                  3. Genry
                    Genry April 24 2019 12: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Here you are comparing volumes and not in our favor.

                    Have you clearly defined who you associate yourself with? Therefore, the question is incomprehensible and requires clarification from you.
                    For me, the volumes of spaceships, before the shuttles appeared (and then there is nothing to compare with), were in Russia's favor.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    how do you comment on the fact that the East and Mercury have approximately the same volume, and Gemini

                    Firstly, these ships were not intended for the lunar program. They tested the ability of a person to fly to a short time, into the space. Here you can not eat and poop not want.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    2 - how do you comment on the fact that Mercury and Dzhemeni had CAC, and the East and Sunrise - no?

                    East - had its own engines, and the astronaut was housed in an ejection seat.
                    Gemini also has ejection seats.
                    Sunrise - SAS was not and more hoped for the development of the launch vehicle. The unsuitability of this ship was visible and switched to the Unions.
                    Mercury - САС has appeared for the first time. But the implementation was very clumsy.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    3 - why is the CAC of the Union very similar to the CAC of Mercury?

                    Why Mercedes looks like a little Zaporozhets.
                    Because rockets are similar too.
                  4. Simargl
                    Simargl April 24 2019 14: 25 New
                    0
                    Quote: Genry
                    Have you clearly defined who you associate yourself with?
                    This is what?
                    In this matter, I want to get to the bottom of the truth.
                    In particular, I want to get at least one clear argument against the fact that Yanko-Americans were on the moon, but everything that conspiratorians provide is nonsense!

                    Quote: Genry
                    Therefore, the question is incomprehensible and requires clarification from you.
                    It's not a question.

                    Quote: Genry
                    For me, the volumes of spaceships, before the shuttles appeared (and then there is nothing to compare with)
                    Apollo was operated from 1968 to 1975, the Space Shuttle from 1981 to 2011. Union since 1967. i.e. "excess" of the volume was for 8 years, in fact, and 6 years of the USSR "jumped on trampolines" with joy.
                    Today, the situation is almost the same: the Americans have a break in the manned program, Roscosmos happily "jumps on trampolines", but the Americans are trying to reach a new level, and we still have the Union. Last time, it ended with a test launch of Buran, but there were no tasks for it and it became history. The same thing can happen with the Federation: one or two launches, and then the Union will drag 1-2 people once every half a year.
                    Despite the fact that the fact of planning flights lasting longer than a flight to the Moon in a closer space took place and was ignored as uncomfortable, I still dare to recall that the free inhabited volume of the Union is less than 3,5 m³, and the volume of official module 5 m³ - in the "bare" form, without equipment, i.e. the free volume of the Union and Apollo are approximately equal, both have their own advantages in layout.

                    Quote: Genry
                    They tested a person’s ability to fly, for a short time, into the space.
                    Yemen flew time comparable to flying to the moon, Sunrises were planned. Flights to the moon - less than two weeks. This is not colonization - it is only a thrust flag and stones to collect.

                    Quote: Genry
                    Mercury - САС has appeared for the first time.
                    So he, in fact, is one of the first (second) and the first even with some sort of CAC.

                    Quote: Genry
                    Because rockets are similar too.
                    You don’t even analyze what you write.
                    Above, you described two options for CAC (Dragon has a third): an ejection chair (East, Gemini), a pulling column (Mercury, Union, Apollon), brake engines (emergency mode, like Dragon-2). So-so similarity.
                  5. Genry
                    Genry April 24 2019 15: 23 New
                    0
                    Quote: Simargl
                    In particular, I want to get at least one clear argument against the fact that Yanko-Americans were on the moon, but everything that conspiratorians provide is nonsense!

                    I have already given my arguments: the physical condition of people, engines, domestic problems, the absence of lunar soil. I can throw more ....
                    And to prove that the lunar mission was taking place is your job. You did not refute my arguments. In addition to the left information, you have not provided any facts.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Apollo was operated from 1968 to 1975,

                    Apollo has a smaller volume than the Union.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Space shuttle

                    Shuttle, I noted that more. Not just bigger, but too big, problematic and expensive.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    and 6 years of the USSR "jumped on trampolines" with joy.

                    When it was? We flew constantly to Salutes and the World.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    ended with a test run of Buran, but there were no tasks for it

                    It was a military program, like shuttles. There were no civilian tasks in it.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    and then the Union will drag 1-2 people once every half a year.

                    Maybe 3 people. There is no need yet.
                    In the next stage of the space program, a larger ship will be added. But unions will still be in demand.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    the free inhabited volume of the Union is less than 3,5 m³, and the volume of the service module 5 m³ is “bare”, without equipment, i.e. the free volume of the Union and Apollo is approximately equal

                    Do you want to see the volume of the capsule only flown down? Don't you think this is too primitive thinking?
                    About equipment, stocks of provisions and consumables, we can talk in the case of any ship.
                    But the Union is 8,5 cubic meters and Apollo 6. At least twist it.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    both have their own layout advantages.

                    Nothing to discuss at all.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Yemen flew time comparable to flying to the moon,

                    Gemini flights are also in question. Too many times lit up with its flimsy design and lack of thermal protection. And the doors opening outwards? they will leak at the slightest deformation.
                    And in general - this does not apply to lunar missions.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Sunrises were planned.

                    Sunrise to the moon? Where did the firewood come from?
                    Quote: Simargl
                    This is not colonization - it is only a thrust flag and stones to collect.

                    Once - still understandable. But somewhat - a questionable utility.
                  6. Simargl
                    Simargl April 24 2019 17: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: Genry
                    I have already given my arguments:
                    - the physical condition of people,
                    - engines
                    - everyday problems,
                    - lack of lunar soil.
                    These are not arguments, but the whining of conspirators, which is not verified.
                    - physical condition some time after landing (hours). Our astronauts, too, a couple of hours after landing sometimes almost danced in front of the cameras. And when Kashpirovsky “anesthetized” on TV during the operation, the poor lady even sang.
                    - what are the engines? What are the problems? That F-1 has less pressure in the chamber than in main gas pipelines ?! So what? Experts have no doubt. Mukhin is not special, but even for the data that he understands, he does a forgery.
                    - Motivation will defeat any household. Moreover, these are not years, but only two weeks (or less) of hard work. You work on a shift in difficult conditions, go on a long hike - then you will have the right to talk about everyday life, but for now you only have the right to soak up.

                    Quote: Genry
                    Apollo has a smaller volume than the Union.
                    How to count? "The net volume of the Union is 10,5 m³, Apollo’s is about 12 m³. It’s less inhabited, due to equipment. The volume of the service compartment is always considered to be" empty ", but there’s not an empty hull. So the volume is about the same. True, the moon should there were two people flying.

                    Quote: Genry
                    too big, problematic and expensive.
                    There were no big problems with the shuttle.
                    There were problems with TTU and staff qualifications on Earth.

                    Quote: Genry
                    Do you want to see the volume of the capsule only flown down? Don't you think this is too primitive thinking?
                    You do not know how to read. Or comprehend what you read. Ask to explain to another person.

                    Quote: Genry
                    And the doors opening outwards?
                    What's the problem? At half of the planes, the doors open outward, and the pressure is greater.

                    Quote: Genry
                    Too many times lit up with its flimsy design and lack of thermal protection.
                    They have spars outside. What is the problem?
                    The taper is higher than that of the Union - the walls in the aerodynamic shadow are not very heat-loaded.
                    Ablation shield? Instead:


                    Quote: Genry
                    Sunrise to the moon? Where did the firewood come from?
                    Stop clowning around! I talked about the fact that the Sunrises, having a volume per person less than 1 m³, were planned for flights up to 18 days, and the flight to the Moon and a contemporary of the Sunrises, Jameni, 7, 14 days. Those. ours allowed, and the Americans mattresses? Yes, for the loot, even you cut off your ear and eat it! And some people do something else just for the sake of likes! Motivation is a strange thing.

                    Quote: Genry
                    But somewhat - a questionable utility.
                    For the sake of prestige, the country has not yet spent on such expenses (relatively), and personal sacrifices - here entire generations have suffered.
                  7. Genry
                    Genry April 24 2019 19: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Simargl
                    These are not arguments, but the whining of conspirators, which is not verified.

                    Offended and whining here you look. You have so many attempts to turn upside down and turn the facts.
                  8. Genry
                    Genry April 24 2019 20: 52 New
                    +1
                    Distracted, continue ...
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Our astronauts, too, a couple of hours after landing sometimes almost danced in front of the cameras.

                    Who, where, when ???
                    You always do stuff like that.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    And when Kashpirovsky “anesthetized” on TV during the operation, the poor lady even sang.

                    Kashpirovsky also flew into space? Or you just do not fucking do?
                    And the lady then said that the pain was as it should be. Just endured with the moral support of loved ones.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Mukhin is not special, but even for the data that he understands, he does a forgery.

                    By what fact.
                    Do not drive with your hands. You are not VALAL.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    You work on a shift in difficult conditions, go on a long hike - then you will have the right to talk about everyday life, but for now you only have the right to soak up.

                    Do you forbid me to constitution?
                    And work wherever you want, no one even asks. But you do not need to flog nonsense.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    How to count? "the net volume of the Union is 10,5 m³, Apollo's is about 12 m³.

                    What else is "clean" .... Interested in only residential. Residential!!! Do not offer aggregate compartments!
                    Quote: Simargl
                    The volume of the service compartment is always considered "empty", but there is not a bare case.

                    This is an aggregate compartment. It is not airtight. There are engines, cylinders with fuel, an oxidizing agent, ... etc.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    There were no big problems with the shuttle.

                    Except for the constantly falling off heat-tile and several major disasters (Challenger, Colombia).
                    Were damp, but they worked not bad, albeit expensive.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    What's the problem? At half of the planes, the doors open outward, and the pressure is greater.

                    Well, if planes fly in a plasma of several thousand degrees, with huge dynamic loads in the form of frantic vibration and overloads of several Zhe - then there are no problems .....
                    Quote: Simargl
                    walls in the aerodynamic shadow, not very heat-loaded.
                    Ablation shield? Instead:

                    Is it an abelion shield? What and how much there should burn out so that the bottom of the capsule does not overheat. Where is the block cover?
                    Does glazing isolate heat radiation? After all, plasma is around like a bonfire in the face.
                    Another shape with ribs across, like a washboard. Especially to enhance air resistance and increase heat transfer?
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Stop clowning around! I said that the Sunrises, having a volume per person of less than 1 m³, were planned for flights up to 18 days,

                    The sunrises were not at all what. Instead, they immediately went raw Union.
                    And it seems to me that you are beginning to be rude?
                    And nothing to tryndet about likes. This thread is already forgotten by everyone.
                    Quote: Simargl
                    Quote: Genry
                    But somewhat - a questionable utility.

                    For the sake of prestige, the country has not yet spent on such expenses (relatively), and personal sacrifices - here entire generations have suffered.

                    Prestige is a one-time promotion. Here Gagarin flew and that’s all, you won’t take more prestige here.
                    And the Americans can’t provide the facts of the moon landing and even let the thousand Apollo be launched there or come up in Hollywood, the prestige of the first person on the Moon will not arrive and nothing will change without those original facts.
                    They are now losing their prestige and are therefore ready at all costs to make up for the missing and replace the fake with genuine artifacts and documents.
                  9. Simargl
                    Simargl April 25 2019 15: 59 New
                    -1
                    And Wasserman also sold out crying
                  10. Genry
                    Genry April 25 2019 20: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Simargl
                    And Wasserman also sold out

                    In the last presidential election, he campaigned for Grudinin. It clearly smelled of money ...
                    And on the moon, why is it necessarily sold out? He simply didn’t enter the topic and gain facts, which he speaks about at the beginning. Although ... he also needs to eat.
  • region58
    region58 April 23 2019 23: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: Simargl
    an emergency can happen, and they will be searched for a long time (now this is ridiculous, of course), you may have to survive

    So, how many cases it was ... Sunrise-2 landed in the taiga, and although they found it quickly, all the same, the astronauts had to stomp their legs to the helicopters in the winter in the snow. In my day they went ... Soyuz-23 landed in the lake, and even covered and turned over from above with a parachute, Soyuz-18 (more precisely, Soyuz-18A, aka Soyuz-18-1) accidentally landed on the mountainside ... In general not always everything happens regularly.
  • Genry
    Genry April 23 2019 23: 56 New
    -1
    Quote: Simargl
    and not "Fomenko and Nosovsky" from rocket science)

    Follow you to think about historians. Well, very interesting ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0Uyen5Nas
    1. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 06: 49 New
      0
      Five steps!
      The first comment is a masterpiece that evaluates the video at 100%!
      Quote: Alexander Bezukladadny
      He also noticed inconsistencies ... Karol Arthur appeared in some part of the transformers, and in the film about Karol Arthur, there was no mention of transformers ...
      1. Genry
        Genry April 24 2019 12: 35 New
        0
        Quote: Simargl
        The first comment is a masterpiece that evaluates the video at 100%!

        For you, idiocy is not just the norm, but a masterpiece?
        For you, facts are nothing? And what is more often claimed, albeit unproven - is that all?
        Do you believe more about gossip or objective information?
        Is your level critically evaluating the news downgraded?

        You will soon begin to believe that the Earth is flat.
  • NordUral
    NordUral April 21 2019 10: 57 New
    +6
    at the end of 60's sort of flew to the moon In the marked essence. In technology, miracles do not happen in terms of reliability. And with Saturn,% is a continuous tale - not a single missile failure after the first "flight" to the moon. And this is after the results of previous test runs!
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 11: 40 New
      -5
      This sas on the dragon worked poorly, since it is a fundamentally different system. And even more so it was a test, and on tests always some kind of garbage happens.
  • frolov andrey
    frolov andrey April 21 2019 12: 18 New
    -3
    Well, do you believe in fairy tales !! Well, the movie was shot and the PR inflated. They had enough technology for this. Dot. It is necessary that the government and the Foreign Ministry withdraw the congratulations at the official level!
  • frolov andrey
    frolov andrey April 21 2019 12: 19 New
    0
    Well, do you believe in fairy tales !! Well, the movie was shot and the PR inflated. They had enough technology for this. Dot. It is necessary that the government and the Foreign Ministry withdraw the congratulations at the official level!
  • Simargl
    Simargl April 22 2019 03: 47 New
    0
    Quote: rotmistr60
    Still, it’s somehow strange - in the late 60s they seemed to fly to the Moon, and today they can’t go into orbit not only to the Moon, but also to orbit. But what about the old developments?
    You live in the past.
    In fact - do not care: flew, did not fly - the main thing - what can we do! We can’t, but we can! Tomorrow.
    And the prospects are not bright, because nobody will fly to the Unions - it's expensive.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 22 2019 21: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Simargl
      And the prospects are not bright, because nobody will fly to the Unions - it's expensive.

      What for so many years no one has done better and cheaper?
      1. Simargl
        Simargl April 22 2019 21: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        What for so many years no one has done better and cheaper?
        Musk is said to be dumping.
        And his rockets fall less.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 22 2019 21: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Simargl
          Musk is said to be dumping.
          And his rockets fall less.

          So-called "reusable" missiles will be lost, including for reasons not related to flights. Recently, a successfully launched rocket received critical damage during a storm.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl April 23 2019 07: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            missiles will be lost including for reasons not related to flights.
            And why answer out of place?
            I pointed out that Musk is dumping, i.e. It offers a cheaper launch, it has a higher coefficient of reliability. What does the loss have to do with it after fulfillment of obligations?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 23 2019 19: 04 New
              -1
              Quote: Simargl
              I pointed out that Musk is dumping, i.e. offers a cheaper launch

              Launches are cheap - only if you reuse a booster rocket, hence the meaning of my words
              Quote: Setrac
              The so-called "reusable" missiles will be lost, including for reasons not related to flights

              Real reusability has not yet been achieved.
              Quote: Simargl
              What does the loss after fulfillment of obligations have to do with it?

              Despite the fact that their payback is not in one start.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl April 24 2019 06: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: Setrac
                Launches are cheap - only if you reuse a booster rocket, hence the meaning of my words
                So it’s kind of like starting cheaper even with a one-time start! Not much, but cheaper. And with reuse - by 30%, sort of.

                Quote: Setrac
                Despite the fact that their payback is not in one start.
                He dumps without it. And that means, without fulfilling promises, it can.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac April 24 2019 20: 45 New
                  0
                  Quote: Simargl
                  So it’s kind of like starting cheaper even with a one-time start!

                  Let's go without a “like,” the start is cheaper with repeated use of the booster.
                  Quote: Simargl
                  He dumps without it.

                  At a loss.
  • NordUral
    NordUral April 21 2019 10: 53 New
    +8
    We must not rejoice at the failures of rivals, but smile at our successes.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx April 21 2019 11: 22 New
      0
      Quote: NordUral
      We must not rejoice at the failures of rivals, but smile at our successes.

      What is it? Maybe so:
      No need to rejoice in the failures of rivals, you need to smile at your own successes? belay
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 21 2019 12: 15 New
        -2
        ROSS 42! Yes, that’s more accurate.
  • sabakina
    sabakina April 21 2019 10: 57 New
    +12
    Crew Dragon removed from the water after the flight to the ISS
    Burnt, smoked ... And now we are united in recollecting the photos and motion pictures of the “moon Apollo”!
    reported an “anomaly”
    The hand of Moscow? Or aliens?
    Our systems must comply with strict safety standards,
    Guys! You launched Apollo with living people even without test launches to the moon! And here on the ISS drifted?
    1. Observer2014
      Observer2014 April 21 2019 11: 23 New
      +3
      sabakina (Vyacheslav)
      Burnt, smoked ... And now we are united in recollecting the photos and motion pictures of the “moon Apollo”!
      belay Remember. And what? Burnt splashed descent vehicle laughing

      The hand of Moscow? Or aliens?
      No Slavik. This is your absolute ignorance in military technology and now space laughing
      Guys! You launched Apollo with living people even without test launches to the moon! And here on the ISS drifted?
      Well, that's better and write. hi Here, I agree with you.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina April 21 2019 11: 33 New
        0
        Sergey, hi In one of the photos, even the inscription NASA did not burn! How so? Or do they have heat-resistant paint?
        1. Hakka
          Hakka April 21 2019 11: 41 New
          -2
          The conicity of the capsules is different, the higher the conicity, the less plasma falls on the walls.
      2. sabakina
        sabakina April 21 2019 11: 34 New
        0
        No Slavik. This is your absolute ignorance in military technology and now space
        Sergey, do you have any other versions? God? belay
        1. Observer2014
          Observer2014 April 21 2019 12: 27 New
          -2
          Quote: sabakina
          No Slavik. This is your absolute ignorance in military technology and now space
          Sergey, do you have any other versions? God? belay

          In one of the photos, even the inscription NASA did not burn! How so? Or do they have heat-resistant paint?
          laughing Slavik, you paid attention to those things in order to prove that the Americans weren’t on the moon. From a word, they are not to those .. This fact was proved long before you by people with specialized education. the fact that the Americans were on the moon. Well, of course you can stick a crowd of minuses in a silly spite. But there is a fact. Learn the mate part.
      3. NordUral
        NordUral April 21 2019 12: 22 New
        +2
        These pictures appeared later, the first ones were white and clean, as were the "astronauts" peppy themselves.
        1. Observer2014
          Observer2014 April 21 2019 12: 58 New
          0
          Quote: NordUral
          These pictures appeared later, the first ones were white and clean, as were the "astronauts" peppy themselves.

          Do you personally remember this, or can you upload these photos from the splashes of the lunar Apollo? I’m silent about the "peppy" lol Cool guys were with the Americans at that time laughing Overloaded smiling worried. At times. Our hands carried. And them! Yeah repeat
          1. NordUral
            NordUral April 21 2019 13: 22 New
            0
            Sergey! Your text is a hodgepodge of white and black. Serenko somehow and your irony is not very clear. Either as applied to me, or to the "astronauts."
            1. Observer2014
              Observer2014 April 21 2019 13: 42 New
              0
              Quote: NordUral
              Sergey! Your text is a hodgepodge of white and black. Serenko somehow and your irony is not very clear. Either as applied to me, or to the "astronauts."

              Personally, there are no complaints at all to you (God forbid to be offended) And at the expense of the “hodgepodge” So delve into the comment before reacting to it. You noticed that I am far from being amerunmoon worshiper .. That's just not necessary to divide all the stupidities that print on the site into black and white. Without shades. Stupidity frankly printed even close in spirit. This is stupidity. This is VO!. How then to look into the eyes of enemies laughing The crowd does not win the war. No, of course you can fill up the crowd with anyone. But it’s enough. Is it time and correctly approach the issue?
              1. NordUral
                NordUral April 21 2019 13: 49 New
                -1
                Sergey! But can they be essentially? Calling something stupid, I must say what this stupidity is. And according to the pictures, they’re online, I once got into the topic, but now I won’t search, many years have passed, and why not. He will find anyone who is interested.
                1. Observer2014
                  Observer2014 April 21 2019 13: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: NordUral
                  Sergey! But can they be essentially? Calling something stupid, I must say what this stupidity is. And according to the pictures, they’re online, I once got into the topic, but now I won’t search, many years have passed, and why not. He will find anyone who is interested.

                  She won’t find it. So why not focus on what you can’t find? fool 80 levels to go on such a scam. Do not "smoke" before dropping the descent vehicle from the plane. Therefore, any distraction. Rather, putting emphasis on this topic is what? bully Further yourself drinks :
                  1. NordUral
                    NordUral April 21 2019 14: 11 New
                    -3
                    Okay, arguing is stupid now. Kennedy won, even if it turns out in the end that it was a blatant scam. And Kennedy was honest with us and the world, everything was no longer with him. The goal is achieved - there is no Union! It was the lunar loss, real or mythical, that gave a powerful impetus to the collapse of the USSR.
                    1. Observer2014
                      Observer2014 April 21 2019 14: 17 New
                      +2
                      Quote: NordUral
                      Okay, arguing is stupid now. Kennedy won, even if it turns out in the end that it was a blatant scam. The goal is achieved - there is no Union! It was the lunar loss, real or mythical, that gave a powerful impetus to the collapse of the USSR.

                      Possibly. The taste of dough was felt by our tops for the first time. Not special rations. And not rest at the dachas in the Crimea and Abkhazia. Namely, the taste of dough. laughing But the USSR was not in the loser either. KAMAZ: Purely by chance, the Americans built a plant for us. repeatYes, in general, you and I personally did not argue about anything hi
                      1. NordUral
                        NordUral April 21 2019 14: 21 New
                        0
                        If only this random generosity, Sergey.
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. NordUral
              NordUral April 21 2019 13: 58 New
              0
              It seems like a fairy tale, although denying that the Wolf is a mighty man is stupid. He is a super-trained test pilot, and Nature endowed beyond measure.
              Statistics, on the other hand, indicate that returns were far from all relatively smooth.
              And the Americans have all 100%. And starts, and landing, and a super peppy look immediately on the splashdown.
              And technology and people - 100% iron people.
              1. NordUral
                NordUral April 21 2019 17: 59 New
                +1
                Something hooked, climbed. Found on the Union T-11:

                This has nothing to do with Wolf, having read about it, I realized that this is quite real. Moreover, he was on Salute with his simulators, not like astronauts in Apollo.
                There is a tiny difference.
              2. Hakka
                Hakka April 22 2019 18: 29 New
                +1
                At the shuttle, the first 24 flights were successful, all manned, who knows, maybe Saturn 5 would have flopped at launch 25.
                1. NordUral
                  NordUral April 22 2019 18: 33 New
                  -1
                  The complexity of the tasks of shuttles and apolons vary by an order of magnitude. And they were not driven in a crazy race with the USSR.
            2. sogdy
              sogdy April 22 2019 11: 46 New
              -1
              Quote: Hakka
              http://max-andriyahov.livejournal.com


              (c) Crazy consultant
              Be silent. Think. Take action.
              [sticky post] tip of the iceberg

              Dec. 12th, 2012 at 7:56 PM

              Bronn
              "Listen to me all! He has appeared! Catch him immediately, otherwise he will do indescribable troubles !!!
              What? What? What did he say? Who has appeared? - voices rushed from all sides
              Consultant! "(C)

              Andriyakhov Maxim Valentinovich

              And then exclusively obscene ... So who is this? Not the one on the Nskom HeadHunter?
      4. Locksmith
        Locksmith April 21 2019 18: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Observer2014
        sabakina (Vyacheslav)
        Burnt, smoked ... And now we are united in recollecting the photos and motion pictures of the “moon Apollo”!
        belay Remember. And what ?.

        Some people (ballistics mainly) are interested in one simple thing- HOW THEY ARE ABLE TO LAND THEIR CAPSULE DIRECTLY TO THE AIRCRAFT'S BOARD laughing request
        1. Simargl
          Simargl April 24 2019 07: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Locksmith
          DIRECT TO THE AIRCRAFT BOARD
          Straight to board - is it 30 miles?
      5. Simargl
        Simargl April 22 2019 18: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Observer2014
        Here, I agree with you.

        Apollo 10 is not considered?
        And why is he 10?
    2. malyvalv
      malyvalv April 22 2019 03: 26 New
      0
      Quote: sabakina
      Guys! You launched Apollo with living people even without test launches to the moon! And here on the ISS drifted?

      Before Apollo 11, there were generally 10 flights. Essentially test.
    3. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 06: 55 New
      -1
      Quote: sabakina
      You launched Apollo with living people even without test launches to the moon!
      Three, it seems, was.

      Quote: sabakina
      And here on the ISS drifted
      The Apollo in museums rust - not like our Unions.
      A little Apollo run.
  • loki565
    loki565 April 21 2019 10: 58 New
    +1
    The larger their “anomalies” they have, the longer they will fly on our ships. And this is money, jobs and time for new developments. So the news is quite satisfied)))
    1. vasilii
      vasilii April 21 2019 11: 19 New
      +3
      In theory, it’s true, but Falcon’s explosion during the CRS-7 mission didn’t really help advance in the development of the Hangar or Union-5.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 21 2019 12: 23 New
        -3
        It's not about the developers, or rather not only about them.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 21 2019 11: 48 New
      -2
      Quote: loki565
      The larger their “anomalies” they have, the longer they will fly on our ships.

      Well, maybe Jack fireman went over whiskey, that's an anomaly.
    3. Simargl
      Simargl April 24 2019 07: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: loki565
      The larger their “anomalies” they have, the longer they will fly on our ships.
      These are temporary difficulties that could benefit us. But they won’t go. Unfortunately.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 April 21 2019 11: 13 New
    -1
    Long way to Eden. I forgot how to do sho ..... however, check a hundred times, and then let's go.
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx April 21 2019 11: 16 New
    -4
    American replacement of the "Union" failed tests

    I have never even heard that the supply of titanium and RD-180 from Russia to the United States is under threat ... belay Yes, rather Rogozin himself will jump on a trampoline ... As for the Americans ... Well, it didn’t work ... One figs, the dollar didn’t collapse ...
    1. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 13: 57 New
      -1
      Well, when ours does not work out - it should be said about the same thing, only about the ruble.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl April 22 2019 18: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Yes, rather Rogozin himself will jump on a trampoline ...
      He already has one foot on it - the truck (Proton) almost does not fly, and soon it will completely bend. The Union will almost cease to be allowed as soon as Dragon-2 flies.
      Soon we will compete with Australia.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 11: 26 New
    0
    Quote: rotmistr60
    And they did not try to do with little hands? When there is nothing to fly on, you can do it the old-fashioned way with your hands with the help of bright heads.


    And this is already flying nowhere. Rather, the flight in the opposite direction. Well, this is happening in the Russian Federation now)))))
    1. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 13: 59 New
      -1
      How do you know what is going on in the Russian Federation?
      Read on the Internet?
      So here one hochlogeneral was already about to tidy up a piece of Russia - because they told us about our end on the Internet.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 April 21 2019 11: 36 New
    -1
    What a fun lander. For all other American devices, the outer surface consists of riveted plates, as if they were airplanes, and when braking about the atmosphere they practically do not heat up. And all these "soviet" apparatuses of rounded shapes, no beautiful riveted rows on them, of course, have no trace, and they are decently burned. Well?
    After all, this barrel was not even in space! Look at her shape. Look at the soot ... Where are the riveted plates that open like doors, on the piano, on the stick, on the hinges? Where is all this ?! Isn’t the fact that these things REALLY have to be in space? And sit down for real! Well, well, what a surprise ...
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 21 2019 12: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      After all, this barrel was not even in space! Look at her shape. Look at the soot ...

      So these are landing tests. request
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 April 21 2019 14: 57 New
        +1
        I know. Look at the pictures of the old lander. Very, you know, a curious sight.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl April 22 2019 18: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Mikhail3
      doors, on pianos, edrena stick, hinges
      Indiscreet question: where is the piano loop?
      Or are you a fake gun?
      The second immodest question: more than 130 descent vehicles have accumulated. Where are they displayed?
      Our partners put up the whole legacy for review. Where is at least some of the 130 ++ Unions? Where is the popularization of space?
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 April 23 2019 09: 42 New
        0
        Really beautiful? And look at the loops. and rivets ... However, after the words about the "cast damask steel" everything becomes rather hard. Damask production is forging technology. Suddenly...
        The picture is not inserted. Well, here is the link. There’s a Gemini lander right from NASA’s site. At first I caught a glimpse of it on the net, then I searched purposefully, then laughed so that I pulled the muscle on my side. Forgive me ...
        https://коб-институт.com.ua/index.php/joomlaorg/statya-2/943-kosmicheskie-kinopoljoty-amerikantsev-tuda-i-obratno
        1. Simargl
          Simargl April 24 2019 06: 14 New
          0
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Really beautiful?
          For me - so-so.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          And look at the loops. and rivets ...
          Hinges are powerful, constipation is not weak, rivets are in place of equipment covers. What do not you like?
          Quote: Mikhail3
          However, after the words about the "cast damask steel" everything becomes quite difficult.
          Here I agree: to understand this, one must climb into the jungle of materials science.
          Here's a question for reflection: what is the maximum value of the average carbon content you know (say, if you collect a package of the same number of plates, by weight, pure iron and steel with a carbon content of 1,5% - 0,75% will turn out).
          Now honestly write the answer, and then read on. Have you agreed?
          I give a hint: welded damask steel, which is made by everyone who is not lazy, has a maximum average concentration of no more than 1-1,2%, and cast damask steel (forgot another name - crucible) is found 6 !!!% (if you really need to - I’ll find a video where 4% normally happened to be unchained). This is not even cast iron, in fact - you need to not only be able to forge it, but also cast it - that’s still a trick.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 April 24 2019 10: 38 New
            0
            You didn’t follow the link? Very sorry. Please go through. And then the conversation turns out one-sided. In your photo there is a modern descent vehicle that was actually in space. And on mine - Gemini, "the former near the moon." There you have rivets, and rows of bolts with touching washers, and even holes in the places where the bolts are too lazy to screw in.
            About damask steel - the further I read you, the more I fool. Damask steel - a package of three plates, one with a low carbon content (soft base - shock absorber), the other with a medium - "frame", and the third with a high carbon content, gives hardness and elasticity. The plates are joined by blacksmithing, bent, welded by forging and flux again, and so dozens of times.
            It is the cellular structure of the plates joined together that are different in terms of carbon content and additives that create BULAT. A rough analogy is reinforced concrete. Iron in itself, concrete in itself, and together they are reinforced concrete. If you grind iron into dust and spill it into concrete, reinforced concrete will not work, okay? What are you talking about total carbon? And is it here?
            Yes, modern laminar alloys are stronger. So what? They are on their own, damask itself. The ancients did not have pyrometers and high-temperature furnaces, so they created the best that they could in their conditions. And you put everything in a heap without looking ...
            Of course, I do not remember the carbon content in damask bags. Why on earth? The ancients did not know him). And I always take all the numerical values ​​in the reference books, I was punished for my “memory” at one time, and very cruelly. My teachers considered those who do not check regime maps to be mentally inferior ...
            1. Simargl
              Simargl April 24 2019 11: 43 New
              0
              https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3614/97833783.e83/0_143d3c_41d29b32_XXXL.jpg
              Quote: Mikhail3
              You didn’t follow the link?
              Passed by. So what?
              What should I see there?
              Here is the original image: spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/gemini/gemini3/hires/s65-13244.jpg
              I will insert for you as I can:

              And now I’ll highlight three fragments that you try to comprehend:



              Now I will give you information for consideration: at the flight altitude of a passenger airliner, atmospheric pressure is approximately 210 mm Hg. Art., a pressure control system provides pressure in the cabin equal to 570 - 620 mm Hg The difference is about 0,5 atmospheric pressure, i.e. pressure in spacecraft Mercury, Yemen, Apollo - less than in an airplane!
              Can you understand this?
              Repeat aloud to get: PRESSURE DIFFERENCE (we take the pressure in the cabin and subtract the pressure overboard) IN THE AIRCRAFT MORETHAN IN A SPACE SHIP !!!
              Following:
              2 - corrugated tin covers thermal insulation and is not a body,
              3 - hinges are not a locking element! The locking elements are, oddly enough, locks.
              Retain for knowledge.
              After gaining this sacred knowledge, you simply have to pull the images of the doors of the jet (they have the habit of flying at an altitude of 13 km where the largest boost is) from the network and make sure that a significant amount opens outward, and the hinges of all are hinged.

              Quote: Mikhail3
              In your photo - a modern lander
              This is Apollo 14 good

              Quote: Mikhail3
              Damask steel - a package of three plates, one with a low carbon content (soft base - shock absorber), the other with a medium - "frame", and the third with a high carbon content, gives hardness and elasticity.
              Well, what kind of man ... he did not hold a hammer in his hands, but argues with a man who worked as a blacksmith for some time ...
              The educational program, which had to be passed in a brachopedia: damask is a composite. There is welding, which you also know about cast (crucible), when dendrites of iron carbide are formed during slow cooling of the casting. Crucible damask steel do not fold.
              Especially for you: See both parts.

              Quote: Mikhail3
              The plates are joined by forge welding, bent, welded by forging and flux again, and so dozens of times.
              Even if it's stupidly doubling - 10 times it's 1024 layers. Even so much is almost homogeneous steel, and even dozens (even 20) is 100% homogeneous steel with 1 million layers !!! (divide the blade thickness by a million and estimate).
              5-7 folds maximum!
              Do not write about what you can not imagine - better ask!

              Quote: Mikhail3
              What are you talking about total carbon? And is it here?
              Learn the topic! First, what is steel, what types and phases, then what is iron carbide (cementite) ... read.

              Quote: Mikhail3
              Yes, modern laminar alloys are stronger.
              Eh ... well, go to a specialty store where quality knives are sold, find an enthusiastic seller.
              Do not take less than 10000 r - do not take anything from what the soul will take.
              Powder steels came up with suckers lol

              Quote: Mikhail3
              And I always take all numerical values ​​in reference books
              Damascus guide ?! belay

              Quote: Mikhail3
              My teachers considered those who do not check regime maps to be mentally inferior ...
              Yeah! Amosov should have said.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 April 24 2019 13: 51 New
                -1
                Your post is just a miracle. I won’t comment on everything, I’ll walk a little.
                So, the pressure in the cabin does not matter. Nothing. At all. Absolutely. Only the pressure that is created on the surface of the cab when it passes at speeds from 7 to 9 km matters. per second during braking about the atmosphere. In this case, the pressure is variable, because the density of atmospheric air is not the same. Can you imagine this pressure?
                Soviet engineers imagined, so outside of our capsules you will not find a single through bolt. Only those that were covered outside with a shell a few centimeters thick. Luke the size of a door, held on ... pubs ... locks. Mommy ... No, I can’t comment on this. I am an engineer, so I can not resist in the framework of censorship vocabulary.
                Corrugated plates cover the heat shield ... outside !! Oh gods ... On stupid Soviet ships, the layer was more than 10 cm thick. on the ingenious Gemini, he is simply not visible! But he is there! Somewhere! Apparently its thickness is a couple of millimeters, right ?! And further. These plates will be ripped off in the first seconds of contact with the dense layers of the atmosphere.
                This means that the layer, in the first place, has the strength of a neutride, because fragments of corrugation and fragments of eight-bolts will not damage it with a guarantee. And secondly - all this incredible design absolutely does not care that the bolts are screwed into it directly through a layer of a fantastic heat insulator !! In places where these bolts pass through, nothing will happen! The heat shield will not lose strength. Melting bolts will not melt the shell through. Nothing will lose strength anywhere ...
                All this is so superior to the modern level of space technology, both ours and American (well, except for thermal protection, which is not the case in science fiction novels), that it’s hard to imagine. Suffice it to say that the United States now apparently has somewhere hidden millions of hypersonic missiles, the production of which on such techniques would be an absolute trifle.

                You just can’t imagine how much everything, absolutely all your statements are anecdotal and unbelievable. Thanks for the minutes of sincere fun. Damask I will not comment. To learn the word “homogeneous” does not mean to understand something in metals, even on the hair ...
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl April 24 2019 17: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  I am an engineer, so I can not resist in the framework of censorship vocabulary.
                  Not in the subject of engineering. Normal would have noticed that KK Soyuz left traces of thermal protection after the descent - it didn’t burn out completely, sometimes. Not an ablation shield that is reset, but not covered by a heat shield (this is such a green "rag"). The same Apollo - she was covered with silver by Mylar and not everywhere he burned down. And these "rags" are not intended to contain plasma, but to protect from overheating by the Sun and hypothermia in the shade! If you still do not understand it - you are a very bad engineer!

                  I’m tired of communicating with a dumb (unable to pre-verify the data that will be presented as a fact) "engineer", who understands engineering and technology worse than a teenager-humanist.

                  I will not answer the blizzard anymore - only to a constructive dialogue, and not nonsense like "through bolts", although finding the "bare" Gemini and suggesting where the insulation is laid and where the screws are screwed in is easy:


                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  Damask I will not comment. To learn the word “homogeneous” does not mean to understand something in metals, even on the hair ...
                  And do not need to comment - watch the video: there a very good specialist talks about the history of metallurgy. If you can’t understand what he is saying, you are a very poor engineer!
                  If you claim that after 20 doublings - the structure cannot be called homogeneous - you are a very stupid engineer, because neither know nor understand the technical details.
                  Press your forehead further. Tired of it.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 April 23 2019 09: 49 New
        -1
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/JerrieCobb_MercuryCapsule.jpg
        And this one, this one is especially good. Yes, there are many of them ...
      3. region58
        region58 April 24 2019 00: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Simargl
        Our partners put up the whole legacy for review.

        They even put out the model BP-1227 that our fishermen caught: a museum in Grand Rapids, Michigan.


        And they stuck the tablet:
        “Grand Rapids Time Capsule. 1976-2076.
        Dedicated to the people of Grand Rapids.
        December 31 1976 year.
        This Apollo command module (serial number BP-1227) contains memorabilia collected by high school students. They reflect our lives during the 200th anniversary of US independence.
        The capsule was used for training to rescue astronauts returning from the moon. She was lost off the coast of England, found by Soviet sailors and returned.
        The capsule was leased by the National Aviation and Space Museum to Grand Rapids residents and will be opened July 4, 2076 on the 300th anniversary of US Independence. ”


        Quote: Simargl
        Where is at least some of the 130 ++ Unions? Where is the popularization of space?

        Here, including:

        It's a shame.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl April 24 2019 07: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: region58
          Here, including:
          That's what I'm talking about!
          Who knows when and how to apply to the cosmonaut corps?
          Exhibited either 5, or 7 CC (Union, East). Who knows where except VDNH?
          That's it!
          That’s all the answers, how much Russia needs astronautics.
  • fruit_cake
    fruit_cake April 21 2019 11: 38 New
    -4
    going is overpowered by the road, they’ll finish it and everything will be fine, but what’s happening in Roskosmos is an interesting question
    1. NordUral
      NordUral April 21 2019 12: 26 New
      -1
      The answer is even more interesting - this organized crime group puts a fat cross on Russian space.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 14: 01 New
        0
        No.
        This bold cross begins with screamers like the crowd here.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral April 21 2019 14: 06 New
          0
          I'm not a screamer, Mestny, I'm just a techie. And THESE ruin the country, ruin and space. These on the site of Khrunichev unfold construction. Look on the net if interested.
          1. sogdy
            sogdy April 22 2019 11: 56 New
            0
            Quote: NordUral
            construction site on Khrunichev

            https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2018/08/10/777872-rogozin
            1. NordUral
              NordUral April 22 2019 20: 02 New
              0
              sogdy! Do you believe that? The fact that I came across the network is denied in the bud. What is bad Khrunichev Center and its staff, and Star City than what is bad. They successfully worked before all these reconstructions.
              1. sogdy
                sogdy April 23 2019 15: 09 New
                0
                Quote: NordUral
                Do you believe that? The fact that I came across the network is denied in the bud

                A trip? You are three times closer.
                Quote: NordUral
                What is bad Khrunichev Center and its staff

                the center is bankrupt. By agreement with the Government of Moscow, to maintain jobs (partial), Star is being built there for the Second Detachment.
                Why and how the center became bankrupt is online. Search on TASS. Briefly - nefig contact CCC LLC. Sounds loud, but scams. And this is in addition to the spaceport.
                In a free program - they fell under the brotherhoods, they were exposed, fined (many under investigation). And numerous leaks from the "patriots", which are still peeling and peeling. The activity is stopped at the moment, the groups that have retained trust have been withdrawn to separate enterprises. Their activities (within the framework of Roscosmos) are already yielding results.
                It is still necessary to remove amateurs such as Sky and Physics, to whom the meaning of the activity is not available. In order not to spray thought on the tree.
                The second detachment, its guards and service staff (scientists, engineers and workers) should create the very “demanding environment” that has been lacking there for almost 45 years, and set the goals of the activity. Well, "accounting and control."
  • Sokrat
    Sokrat April 21 2019 11: 42 New
    -2
    In general, there is nothing surprising .. the USA "fool" enabled them to ride Russia very profitably on our engines "on the neck" .. Even the military launches its satellites against Russia, but ours for some reason fall))))
    That's how we live in sanctions, except for those that are beneficial to the United States.
    There is something to think about.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 14: 02 New
      -2
      Well?
      About what?
      Or - "I know how to, but I won’t tell you"?
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad April 21 2019 11: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: rotmistr60
    at the end of the 60s they seemed to fly to the moon, and today they can’t not only go to the moon, but also into orbit. But what about the old developments?


    so there were only developments on video editing, special effects and shooting in the desert.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 14: 04 New
      -1
      It doesn’t concern you at all what kind of problems the “Federation” has.
      Cry in the corner about an American ship.
      Moreover, people like you believe that the Americans will succeed. because they are the smartest.
      1. Orlov
        Orlov April 21 2019 15: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: Mestny
        It doesn’t concern you at all what kind of problems the “Federation” has.
        Cry in the corner about an American ship.
        Moreover, people like you believe that the Americans will succeed. because they are the smartest.

        Of course, smart, they pay their engineers a normal salary, in contrast to the rozozmoz which only pays highly secretaries, and the engineers transferred to beggarly handouts.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 11: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: sabakina
    Guys! You launched Apollo with living people even without test launches to the moon! And here on the ISS drifted?


    You have recently quite a filperstovy kondovy Soyuz with bearings from ZIL 130, hand-machined on a DIP200 machine, retired hands of a specialist in retirement with a micro-storage from Rogozin and a boarded up sledgehammer, with the help of some kind of mother))) a step, the same hands are covered, not could even go into orbit))) Well, at least this time the lander was not drilled with a drill with a construction drill. Again, with their hands and salted specialists))) For the micro-warehouse of an ordinary hard worker.

    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 April 21 2019 12: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: Top Gun
      fildeperstovy kondovy Union with bearings from ZIL 130,

      Why didn’t ZIL-130 please you?
    2. Mestny
      Mestny April 21 2019 14: 05 New
      +1
      Well, that is, you don’t know how to write in Russian, but give advice as you should?
      Bright handwriting juvenile d.
  • Hakka
    Hakka April 21 2019 11: 54 New
    0
    Quote: rotmistr60
    In the meantime, have to fly on Russian ships. Still, it’s somehow strange - in the late 60s they seemed to fly to the Moon, and today they can’t go into orbit not only to the Moon, but also to orbit. But what about the old developments? Oh yes, the drawings are lost, the specialists have evaporated ...
    . Obsolescence, the Union is flying, but the federation is still being made, why aren’t you using Pentium 2? After all, it is also a processor, and considers the norms. Or why do you change cars for new ones? All the same, the old rides. And the thing is moral obsolescence.
    1. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: Hakka
      Obsolescence, the Union is flying, but the federation is still being made, why aren’t you using Pentium 2?

      You will not believe, I never used this freak.
  • boriz
    boriz April 21 2019 12: 15 New
    -3
    Yeah, this is not for you to "fly" to the moon.
    I give free advice: to put the engine from the ship that "flew" to the moon, weak?
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 12: 28 New
      +2
      Which engine to put? Where? The Apollos had a different sas, like the union solid fuel, pulling. The dragon is fundamentally different, pushing, on the rail, not implemented by anyone before, plus imprisoned for reusability.
      1. Mestny
        Mestny April 21 2019 14: 06 New
        0
        I said - you do not know them ... nothing.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 08 New
      0
      Quote: boriz
      I give free advice

      It’s not clear, who are you talking about?
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 April 21 2019 12: 24 New
    -1
    in the end, they will finalize it ... and replace it ... it's just a matter of time ... in the context of such articles, I am always interested in something else ... where are we going in manned space ... where are our ideas ... copying someone else's (let and at first glance a good way) ... it does mean that in Russia there is no understanding of what is promising ... how to "correctly" (safely and at minimal cost) deliver people into space ...
    Mask and similar ideas have ... and WE ?? ... where shall we go in development after UNIONS ... or is this the optimum ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 21 2019 13: 13 New
      -4
      Quote: silberwolf88
      where are we going in manned space ... where are our ideas ... copying someone else's

      Was they banned in Yandex?
    2. NordUral
      NordUral April 21 2019 18: 07 New
      +3
      With the understanding of THEIR path, THEM is all right. Everything goes according to plan, let’s say so - the “mythical” plan of Dulles. And it’s successful, otherwise everyone is repeating with us that they are stupid menagers.
    3. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: silberwolf88
      this, in fact, means that in Russia there is no understanding of what is promising ... how to "correctly" (safely and at minimal cost) deliver people into space ...

      I’m sorry, but for what need do people deliver there? Do not explain?
      Then it will be clear where to go.
      Oh yes, the "minimum cost" is not your topic. It includes so much that the “launch cost” in American terms is only part of the launch cost.
      And about work and payment for amers - everything you read and heard about labor camps refers exclusively to the USA / USA.
      It was their very law banning the use of slave labor and its results that forced NASA to transfer - legally - the work of Mask.
      1. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 April 22 2019 18: 45 New
        -2
        What are you talking about? ... just wanted to talk ?? ...
        my questions are very specific ... during the USSR it was clear WHY we people in space ... and now there is an understanding (I want the moon is not the goal at all ...) where to go in development .. what and why to spend money ...
        1. sogdy
          sogdy April 22 2019 18: 59 New
          -1
          Quote: silberwolf88
          What are you talking about? ... just wanted to talk ?? ...

          No, it's me about America and McCarthyism. And about the Roosevelt labor front, which began somewhat earlier than the European ones.
          Quote: silberwolf88
          during the Soviet Union it was clear why we people in space ...

          Yes, it was the "first step", the development of technology.
          Quote: silberwolf88
          and now there is an understanding (I want to go to the moon, this is not the goal at all ...) where to go in development .. on what and why to spend money ...

          What are you doing ?! And what are you going to do on the moon that justifies multiple round-trip deliveries?
          1. silberwolf88
            silberwolf88 April 22 2019 21: 23 New
            -2
            Do you feel sad with logic? ... or dyslexia? ...
            I wondered ... like explain (well, maybe there are those who know) ... why do we need the Moon ... and you return it to me ...
            Well, exert yourself a little ... start reading literally ... or well, do not go past the point with the comments ...
            1. sogdy
              sogdy April 23 2019 15: 23 New
              -1
              Quote: silberwolf88
              Do you feel sad with logic?

              Quote: silberwolf88
              type explain (well maybe there are knowledgeable) ... why do we need the moon

              ABOUT! somewhat earlier
              Quote: silberwolf88
              where are we going in manned space ... where are our ideas ... copying someone else's (albeit at first glance good) paths ... this in fact means that in Russia there is no understanding of what is promising ... how "right" ( safely and at minimal cost) deliver people to space ...
              Mask and similar ideas have ... and WE ?? ... where shall we go in development after the UNIONS ... or this is the optimum.

              Well, tell me, do not pass on to others.
              About the Moon - I cited earlier authors of works that somewhat change the goals that were during the Moonwalkers. It is quite clear to a clever (and not suffering from multiple sclerosis) that verification of theoretical constructions is necessary. And who will check is not important. For the budget was not planned for this - and there will be no other budget until another task is formulated, if anything, scientifically. Those. with evidence and justification.
              1. silberwolf88
                silberwolf88 April 24 2019 00: 17 New
                -1
                kindergarten ... younger group ... you really have problems with building dialogs ...
                as far as I read the correspondence ... YOU got into my question without an answer ... i.e. you had nothing to say in essence ... but you decided to write something on the fence there ... and this is not necessary ...
                next time, just pass by collecting the remains of your will ... I'm completely not interested in your reasoning without answers and meanings ...
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 12: 35 New
    -4
    The most interesting thing in the comments of the Uriah-patriots is when they swoop down on pagan foreign, but REALLY, on both cheeks))) use pagan means of producing no less pagan "enemies" from vile US and gay men in the form of machines and equipment. I’m silent that they use almost foreign products in everyday life, and even try to snatch something mostly from Anglo-Saxons, not some Asians))) At the same time, they give examples of specialists with golden hands, who really, as a rule, learn again but with the pagan foreigners))) True, quite often, those who are smarter than those who were sent to study there also remain. And why ?! And then that the conditions for his life, or some kind of drawn up State Duma there, are much better than popular reality and Ponte ury patriots.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 21 2019 13: 17 New
      -2
      Quote: Top Gun
      but AGAIN, for both cheeks))) use the pagan means of production of no less pagan "enemies" from the vile USA and the geyropeytsy

      They then use our goods - they are not shy, and do not forget to scold us. And they rejoice at our failures.
      The satanic stash (notrdamdamdepari) burned down - the road is there too.
      Quote: Top Gun
      And then that the conditions for his life, nor any state Duma painted there, are much better than popular reality

      Apparently this gosuduma is to blame for the fact that Russia is the coldest country in the world? There are no economic reasons, people remain where the climate is better and this is not Russia.
      1. Sky
        Sky April 21 2019 13: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        They then use our goods - they are not shy, and do not forget to scold us.
        What exactly do they use Russian? Machine tools, industrial equipment, instruments, electronics, automobiles, household appliances? You just look around in your apartment, at work - we are surrounded by 2/3 things designed abroad. Our export goods are resources (hydrocarbons, ore, metals, timber, wheat) and low-value products, such as chemistry. Our equipment, with the exception of weapons, is not competitive and no one needs in the world market. This is regrettable and outrageous, but true.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 April 21 2019 14: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: Skye
          You just look around in your apartment, at work - we are surrounded on 2 / 3 by things designed abroad.

          And I have an electronics tape recorder, an Ocean receiver, and Arcturus ... And there are records ... Yes, there are also souvenirs, starting from the plate with the Bear and ending with the INF Treaty.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac April 21 2019 17: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Skye
          What exactly do they use Russian?

          Gas, oil, a lot of things, rocket engines, parts for Boeing. Russia's trade balance is positive - it means Russia is selling more than it is buying.
          Quote: Skye
          You just look around in your apartment, at work - we are surrounded on 2 / 3 by things designed abroad.

          I note that in the United States exactly the same picture, as well as in Europe. Russia is not unique here.
          Quote: Skye
          Our export goods are resources (hydrocarbons, ore, metals, timber, wheat) and low-value products, such as chemistry.

          And do you think consumer goods are high-tech products? I note that mining is a high-tech process, especially in the north.
          I repeat - Russia sells more than it buys, they need us more than we need them.
          1. Sky
            Sky April 21 2019 18: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: Setrac
            And do you think consumer goods are high-tech products?
            "Machine tools, industrial equipment, devices, electronics" is consumer goods? Is the processor in your home computer consumer goods or high technology? Tell you on whose research equipment our scientists work? And whose welding equipment is in the workshops of our drilling equipment factories? Whose welding materials do they use? Whose equipment does Gazprom use in the construction of pipelines? Sorry, but you are in the clouds.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 21 2019 23: 31 New
              -1
              Quote: Skye
              And whose welding equipment is in the workshops of our drilling equipment factories?

              Japanese? German? Chinese? Russian? Who cares?
              Quote: Skye
              Sorry, but you are in the clouds.

              For all your claims, one answer is a positive trade balance. Everyone uses imported equipment, materials, etc., ALL countries. Russia is not unique here. Russia is not only an importer but also an exporter of high-tech products as well.
              1. prodd
                prodd April 22 2019 10: 41 New
                0
                How deep will it be negative without hydrocarbons? All nuclear power plants and rocket engines make up only 5-7% of exports, Russia has money only because of oil, there will be no oil, Russia will not, there simply will not be funds to keep such a motley country in one harness
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac April 22 2019 20: 46 New
                  -1
                  Quote: prodd
                  How deep will it be negative without hydrocarbons?

                  Interest Ask! And what will happen to the US economy - if you turn off the printing press?
                  Quote: prodd
                  in Russia there is money only because of oil

                  Gas, oil and other petroleum products account for slightly more than 50% of Russia's exports; your pathos is inappropriate and incorrect.
                  Quote: prodd
                  there will be no oil there will be no Russia, there simply will not be the means to keep such a motley country in one harness

                  In fact, these same petrodollars of Russia are not needed. What we want to buy - they will not sell to us, what they sell to us - not really what we need. For Russia, the state-building structure is the Russian Railways, not Gazprom at all.
                  1. prodd
                    prodd April 23 2019 08: 51 New
                    0
                    5% equipment and machinery
                    10% agriculture
                    85% raw materials, this means simple processing.
                    Do you have other data?
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac April 23 2019 18: 58 New
                      -1
                      Quote: prodd
                      85% raw materials, this means simple processing.

                      In the USA, 70% of GDP - speculation in the foreign exchange markets - and somehow they do not worry, why should we care about such a structure of exports?
                      1. region58
                        region58 April 24 2019 00: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: Setrac
                        In the US, 70% of GDP - speculation in the foreign exchange markets - and somehow do not take a steam bath

                        Why steam if money is out of thin air?
                        Quote: Setrac
                        why should we care about such an export structure?

                        Because we give ourselves quite a real product for the very money out of thin air. Consider it for nothing. yes
      2. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 April 21 2019 13: 51 New
        -2
        you’re a strange character ... well, yes ... the Slavs (I mean the tribes of which the Russians went) settled traditionally east of the negative January isotherm (this is Lev Gumilyov, if you noticed) ... it practically coincides with the borders of Russia / Russia ... and it’s not that it’s cold and not cozy (it was so good for our ancestors ... the granddaughters certainly went weaker ... snot ... scrofula and whining) ... here was its own way of life and its understanding of the Spirit) .. .
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 21 2019 17: 49 New
          0
          Quote: silberwolf88
          here was his way of life and his understanding of the Spirit) ...

          So I'm talking about the same thing. Those who have left are strangers to us and we should not be sorry, let them fall.
    2. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 25 New
      -2
      Quote: Top Gun
      for both cheeks))) use pagan means of production of no less pagan "enemies" from the vile USA and the geyropeytsy in the form of machines and equipment.

      Pusik, yet Mukhina read poorly (did he read?). And he says it all.
      You remind something of your pomp of Belyash.
  • aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo April 21 2019 12: 47 New
    -2
    Quote: Infinity
    I don’t know why, but the article incorrectly states
    His first test flight with the crew was supposed to take place at the end of this year.

    As if at the end of the year, the third flight with four people should take place, the first flight with two people SpaceX Demo 2 (he is the second test, but the first with people) - August. The author could google it all before publishing.

    Questions to the title. Did you fail the test? I’m used to the fact that a complete (or large) technical mismatch of the product of those is called a test failure. assignment and declared characteristics. What do we have here? Malfunction of the SAS engine, which is most likely from the category of "childhood diseases". And they have any complex equipment, and there are many of them usually. Moreover, it’s good that they found. For this, tests and checks are needed.. Including unmanned launch in March (SpaceX Demo 1). We’ve got it, Soyuz-1 with Komarov died due to the dampness of the spacecraft, because they were in a hurry (as they say, by a beautiful date)! Safety comes first!

    You can only discuss the criticality of an accident if you have all the test materials. Apparently, you were somewhere nearby and familiar with the results, since so peremptorily shame opponents. A small accident. What do the English say there? Haile Luckley?
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 13: 22 New
      +1
      There is a video there nafig the whole capsule was torn apart)) from an engineering point of view, the capsule design looks great, but when you have around a few liters of self-igniting fuel it’s not very good at heart) in vain the mask didn’t make a traditional sas) although time will tell it can fix it)
    2. Sky
      Sky April 21 2019 13: 47 New
      -2
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      Apparently, you were somewhere nearby and familiar with the results, since so peremptorily shame opponents.

      As I understand it, opponents are familiar with the results, since they so categorically talk about a complete failure? It is already known what the cause of the accident is - a manufacturing defect of a fitting or a gross design error requiring the processing of the entire engine concept?
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 13: 00 New
    -2
    Quote: Hakka
    Which engine to put? Where? The Apollos had a different sas, like the union solid fuel, pulling. The dragon is fundamentally different, pushing, on the rail, not implemented by anyone before, plus imprisoned for reusability.


    Yes. This is precisely the trick. Engineering done very cool and thought out.
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 13: 16 New
      +1
      But solid fuel sas is more reliable, have you seen how a dragon tore apart?
  • Ferusmag
    Ferusmag April 21 2019 13: 20 New
    +3
    What a battle in the comments, wow!

    Come on in order
    1) That they have a failure, this is normal, this is a test. It’s good that this happened during the tests.
    2) If you remember, the space shuttle program was closed after a series of tragedies and they are now trying to rehabilitate themselves. But I think their designs are based on a space shuttle, so maybe they will fix the jambs, but not until the end of the year (although if there are a lot of attendants, then maybe)
    3) Yes, we can rejoice (Russians), why not? They can water us with slops, but we can’t?
    4) Of course, they will finalize it and fly, no doubt, in the end, others could, and they can, it's normal! (although this is frustrating)
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 13: 25 New
      -3
      3) with slops, they water less, just remember about the trampoline and laudation from the mask rd-180, I sit sometimes on the nasa forum, there they all wait when the crown flies from the Russian, this is about rd 180))
      1. Ferusmag
        Ferusmag April 21 2019 13: 27 New
        -2
        I am talking about regular forums like this one. Where people are just, they just scum. In America, such as we, too, abundantly)
        1. Hakka
          Hakka April 21 2019 13: 37 New
          0
          So it’s everywhere like that)) I talked with the Indians about the Indian cosmos, so I tell them that they didn’t do anything that the USSR and the USA couldn’t do, didn’t surpass them at all, and they consider themselves almost a new superpower)))
    2. krops777
      krops777 April 21 2019 13: 44 New
      0
      Yes, we can rejoice (Russians), why not? They can water us with slops, but we can’t?


      Yes, this is not even the point; the question is brewing by itself. Where is the praised technology? Where is the progress after the flight to the moon and space shuttles?
      1. Hakka
        Hakka April 21 2019 13: 54 New
        -2
        Where is the progress after the flight of energy blizzard? Where is the progress after the flight of Concord and Tu-144?
        1. krops777
          krops777 April 21 2019 14: 06 New
          +2
          Where is the progress after the flight of energy blizzard? Where is the progress after the flight of Concord and Tu-144?


          I’m watching you just to make a comment, you are our adherent and witness of flights to the moon. tongue
          1. Hakka
            Hakka April 21 2019 15: 16 New
            -2
            Like you, the adept and witness of not flying to the moon you are ours. tongue
  • donavi49
    donavi49 April 21 2019 13: 36 New
    +3
    Crew Dragon is considered by the US National Aerospace Agency as the main replacement for the Russian Soyuz spacecraft in the missions of American astronaut delivery to the International Space Station.


    Not. There will be a repeat of the story with the CRS (Commercial Resupply Services) program. That is, NASA will share the load and financing between Musk (Dragon + Falcon) and Boeing + YULA (Starliner and Atlas5).

    Previously, a problem arose during testing SuperDraco engines


    Yes. But this is on the burns on the cables (so as not to fly away) in preparation for the qualifying Aborttest. In fact, no problems have yet been announced. Of course they will study the problem and solve it. If it’s serious, then yes, the program will go (to the joy of Boeing - who, due to Trump's budget tricks, has flown out of the schedule for 3 for a month or more and is now trying to catch up).

    For the Mask will be the key submission Aborttest in the summer. If it passes, then it may require NASA permission to launch in the fall and winter. If not, then the Boeing catches up with the Mask, and it is quite possible that the flight with the Mask goes to 2020.

    The current NASA program is unchanged - both companies participating in the program must make their first manned flights to the ISS in 2019.

    By the way, about the ISS, as expected, they could not. To accept and unload 3 cargo ships in 3 weeks is too much for three astro / astronauts. Summary Musk moved for a week with his Dragon. Now everyone is busy unloading Tsingus and trying not to get broadcast AstroBi robots that Tsingus brought.
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 April 21 2019 14: 04 New
    +3
    Quote: Hakka
    In Roskosmos holiday! Do not forget that the amers still have the cst-100, for the sake of such a situation they did two ships, the federation is wondering what problems will be)

    We'll see when they will do it and test it, but for now, the Amer program has slowed down at least until the end of the year.
    Our Roskosmos is also slowing down and is still working in large part on technologies left over from the USSR, so hated by the real "patriots" of Russia.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 14: 19 New
    -4
    Quote: krops777
    Where is the praised technology? Where is the progress after the flight to the moon and space shuttles?


    For the opportunity to fly for decades with virtually no control and go beyond the limits of the solar system, I take off my hat in front of Pagan USA.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 14: 29 New
    -3
    Quote: Mestny
    Well, that is, you don’t know how to write in Russian, but give advice as you should?


    Yes, it seems like you understand me correctly, then everything is in order with the Russian! )))
  • Mentat
    Mentat April 21 2019 14: 30 New
    0
    Quote: Skye
    Above, Infinity correctly said - failure is a complete technical mismatch of the product of those. task, and not a malfunction in the system, the severity of which is still unknown.

    No, not true. Because you are trying by all means to replace and confuse the concepts of testing as a set of measures, a series of measures to identify errors, shortcomings, design flaws and tests as a single instance of these procedures. So failed successive tests, of course, not the whole cycle, because it is impossible to do a single engine testing. After all, the article explains what exactly happened. Headlines in the press are shrinking. In this case, it already consists of 5 words, further clarification of the situation in the heading reduces its readability. You could write, for example, like this: Crew Dragon failed another test - also 5 words, but then the title’s clarity is lost.
    In short, there is no fundamental error in the sense of the message here that you are trying to draw with all your might.

    A failure is when the Phobos-soil does not land on Phobos, but on Earth.

    And this is just not a failure, because it was not stated that the accident occurred as a result of critical design errors, this is an accident if we consider this situation in a technical context.
    1. Sky
      Sky April 21 2019 15: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Mentat
      In short, there is no fundamental error in the sense of the message here that you are trying to draw with all your might.

      They are trying by all means to draw a disaster for a competitor, and they are doing this in the absence of information about the real causes of the accident and the likely timing of troubleshooting. In addition to the semantic load, the term "failure" is also emotional. In this sense, I perfectly understand the desire to gloat over a cow that died from a neighbor, but, unfortunately, our cosmonautics does not get any benefit from this.
      Quote: Mentat
      And this is just not a failure
      Yes, I already understood you, the accident in the regular tests of a new ship is a failure, and the loss of a unique interplanetary station worth 5 billion rubles. it is simply a failure. Like a series of other losses due to sensors installed upside down, due to the launch of rockets with software from another spaceport. Like the loss of the market for commercial launches. As well as a fall in 3rd place in terms of the number of satellite constellations.
      What you can do about your work is to explain to us, stupid, that these are not systemic problems in the industry, but nothing.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 14: 32 New
    -3
    Quote: Hakka
    But solid fuel sas is more reliable, have you seen how a dragon tore apart?


    It is more reliable only as a reserve and redundancy. This is where reliability ends. However, redundancy with a sufficient degree of reliability is far from always necessary.
  • Top Gun
    Top Gun April 21 2019 14: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Mentat
    And this is just not a failure, because it was not stated that the accident occurred as a result of critical design errors, this is an accident if we consider this situation in a technical context.


    Yes, even though you can’t name and don’t declare it, but the Phobos-soil really was covered with a copper basin. And how many jokes I collected ....)))
  • Cry
    Cry April 21 2019 14: 50 New
    +2
    This means that they do not have engines, and, therefore, they didn’t have, therefore, how could they reach the moon?
    1. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 47 New
      -1
      They had solid von Braun. Only now they are afraid of them. But there is no one to calculate, there is no theoretical basis.
      1. Cry
        Cry April 22 2019 14: 52 New
        +1
        So there are no brains yet. Of course there are, but not those that are needed. Dumb people left, and smart ones stayed at home.
      2. Hakka
        Hakka April 22 2019 15: 39 New
        0
        In general, solid-fuel engines they have the best in the world, remember the shuttle ttu
        1. sogdy
          sogdy April 22 2019 17: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Hakka
          In general, solid-fuel engines they have the best in the world

          Of the sum of the technologies and available materials, they cannot have others.
          1. Hakka
            Hakka April 22 2019 17: 56 New
            -1
            Well, why, hydrogen rail and many other technologies) do not forget about AMS and orbital telescopes.
            1. sogdy
              sogdy April 22 2019 18: 07 New
              +1
              You still amuse me. Do you really understand what was said, or do you react only to words? And why do you visit NASA and Indian sites?
              The administration of the liquid propellant rocket engine (regardless of the fuel), the Americans are trying to write off from the Union. From the first Union. Namely, they have no materials for it (for control systems). In Syria and Jordan they broke off. Trying to buy from the Saudis and in Israel. They managed to capture part of the materials (for one start) in the Baltic states, in our processing plants.
              China remained, but it does not sell - there is nothing for amers to pay.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. sogdy
                  sogdy April 22 2019 18: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hakka
                  Do you think they do not know how to throttle the rail?

                  Pusik, this is not KUT. There is no "throttling" on these loads. Does not work.
                  But you still remind the machine.
                2. sogdy
                  sogdy April 22 2019 18: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: Hakka
                  I visit the nasa site for fun

                  Xnumx years?
                  1. Hakka
                    Hakka April 22 2019 18: 41 New
                    0
                    10, so tell me what do you mean by rail control?
                    1. sogdy
                      sogdy April 22 2019 18: 51 New
                      0
                      All control systems on the Internet. Except commercial.
                      Will you continue to ask stupid questions?
                      1. Hakka
                        Hakka April 22 2019 18: 56 New
                        0
                        You have stupid answers, enlighten, give a link)
                      2. sogdy
                        sogdy April 23 2019 15: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: Hakka
                        enlighten, give a link)

                        And you earned that the state was spent on your protection?
                        But on the Internet, 4 (!) Non-combined control methods.
                        And there is a description of the throttle and the principle of throttling. If so, the Wiki does not only indicate that the throttle is a type of shut-off valve. Alas. And how are you going to stabilize the flow at each adjustment?
                        By the way, the diffuser was in vain included in the list of hydraulic throttles. But the amateur wrote the article. Flow control using a control valve also has no relation to flow throttling. Absolutely.
                      3. Hakka
                        Hakka April 23 2019 17: 59 New
                        0
                        And do you think that engines like rs-25, merlin, rs-68, rl10, not to mention f-1 and j-2 do not have a control system? Well, you are a joker))
                      4. Hakka
                        Hakka 16 May 2019 13: 38 New
                        -1
                        The dove has merged))
  • DPN
    DPN April 21 2019 14: 50 New
    +1
    You do not remember when the UNIONS died, back in 1991, our UNIONS flew before that, but where are the NEW? Americans do new ones; they’re not always successful, but they go to the FORWARD, and WE are not holding onto the USSR, where is FRESH? probably most guesses.
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra April 21 2019 14: 51 New
    -2
    As always, the sect of witnesses launching Teslamobile with a finger in the sky screamed the mantra "vsevsereti" lol
    How ridiculous to watch these clowns ... Just like the election of a Gauleiter in Ukraine - a similar circus
  • aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo April 21 2019 14: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Skye
    Quote: aleksandrmakedo
    Apparently, you were somewhere nearby and familiar with the results, since so peremptorily shame opponents.

    As I understand it, opponents are familiar with the results, since they so categorically talk about a complete failure? It is already known what the cause of the accident is - a manufacturing defect of a fitting or a gross design error requiring the processing of the entire engine concept?

    Some opponents are familiar with the Soviet system for testing special products. If the test results are negative (there are no half negative, as well as half positive), then the tests are carried out on twice the number of products. In case of repeated failure, the entire batch of products is rejected and shipping to the customer is prohibited.
    Together with the customer, measures are being developed to eliminate the drawback. And the decision is made after repeated tests.
    The result is evaluated, not the degree of destruction. The result, as I understand it, is negative.
    I am convinced that something similar exists with them.
    1. sogdy
      sogdy April 22 2019 12: 51 New
      0
      Quote: aleksandrmakedo
      I am convinced that something similar exists with them.

      Such a history of their development does not confirm this. Especially the history of astronautics.
  • another RUSICH
    another RUSICH April 21 2019 15: 03 New
    0
    Well then! How unexpectedly that ...
    The other day, some of them told me that reusable and returnable Mask devices with 25 engines are very cheap and very reliable, and very profitable. Yeah ... 40 starts, you say?) What kind of account?
    1. Hakka
      Hakka April 21 2019 15: 19 New
      +2
      So this is not a rocket exploded)
      1. Setrac
        Setrac April 21 2019 17: 57 New
        -1
        Quote: Hakka
        So this is not a rocket exploded)

        Yeah))) the rocket got into the storm and drowned.
  • Mentat
    Mentat April 21 2019 16: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Skye
    Quote: Mentat
    In short, there is no fundamental error in the sense of the message here that you are trying to draw with all your might.

    They are trying by all means to draw a disaster for a competitor, and they are doing this in the absence of information about the real causes of the accident and the likely timing of troubleshooting. In addition to the semantic load, the term "failure" is also emotional. In this sense, I perfectly understand the desire to gloat over a cow that died from a neighbor, but, unfortunately, our cosmonautics does not get any benefit from this.

    The failure of the entire program is an emotional assessment, the accident is the failure of a particular iteration of the test. The ambiguity of words allows you to describe the situation in different ways. You are trying in every possible way to insert only the most beneficial publicly for SpaceX. And some dead cows have nothing to do with it.
    Accidents happen when creating any equipment, but do not try to fill in with saccharin any situation related to SpaceX.

    Quote: Mentat
    And this is just not a failure
    Yes, I already understood you, the accident in the regular tests of a new ship is a failure, and the loss of a unique interplanetary station worth 5 billion rubles. it is simply a failure.

    Already wrote why, you are repeating yourself. In the case of Crew Dragon, the failure of one iteration of testing, in the case of Phobos-soil, failure to launch, accident, no one is guaranteed from them.

    Like a series of other losses due to sensors installed upside down, due to the launch of rockets with software from another spaceport.

    Punish, tighten control, remove from office. However, what have your attempts at juggling with words?

    Like the loss of the market for commercial launches.

    It is unlikely that we can speak of a complete loss, but rather a significant decrease in the quantity. In fact, the United States, through indirect subsidies, is waging an economic war with the Russian space program.

    What you can do about your work is to explain to us, stupid, that these are not systemic problems in the industry, but nothing.

    Those. My participation in the discussion is work, and your kilograms of saccharin to gloss over the SpaceX image is what you went for a walk. I participate here because I am interested in certain topics, and if they are interesting, then a person seeks to discuss them. Nowhere did he say that the problems in Russian space are nothing, why are you weaving this and allow yourself a lie, it is not clear.
    1. Sky
      Sky April 21 2019 19: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      Those. my participation in the discussion is work
      Yes, do not make excuses, I carefully follow all the cheers on the site, for which they hate me. Every adequate person will take out only one thought from my pessimistic comments - Russia already has enough time to stagnate and amuse itself with the thought that the neighbors are worse, enough to parasitize on the Soviet legacy, it is time for us to move forward. I don’t give a damn about SpaceX in general and Mask in particular, I’m more worried about Roskosmos and its balabol head. Your task is the opposite - to create the illusion of development in a swamp of stability.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy April 22 2019 12: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: Skye
        Any adequate person will make only one thought from my pessimistic comments -

        not a techie writes. Yes, actually, sucker.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac April 22 2019 21: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Skye
        stop parasitizing on the Soviet legacy

        Do you propose to abandon everything Soviet? Monuments to dump? And you give up your American heritage, set an example.
  • aristok
    aristok April 21 2019 17: 43 New
    -1
    Maskophiles:
    Trivia, that’s everyday life .. (c)
    loud headline does not match the description of the news.

    As usual - joyfully screaming, not figuring out what happened, actually? If only I could wait until they say that they got out for the "anomaly" - but we must certainly crow ...

    They are trying by all means to draw a disaster for a competitor, and they are doing this in the absence of information about the real causes of the accident and the likely timing of troubleshooting.

    eyewitnesses in the video:
    !!!Boom!!!
    "Nooo fuck no, fuccckkk"
  • aleksandrmakedo
    aleksandrmakedo April 21 2019 19: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Top Gun
    Quote: Mestny
    Well, that is, you don’t know how to write in Russian, but give advice as you should?


    Yes, it seems like you understand me correctly, then everything is in order with the Russian! )))

    With the tongue is normal. With brains, not really. Launching a piece of iron without control and watching its flight beyond the limits of the Solar system is not a lot of talent. Assault rifle, telegraph, no complicated electronics. Put on a hat. You go cold.
  • Mentat
    Mentat April 21 2019 21: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: Skye
    Quote: Setrac
    They then use our goods - they are not shy, and do not forget to scold us.
    What exactly do they use Russian? Machine tools, industrial equipment, instruments, electronics, automobiles, household appliances? You just look around in your apartment, at work - we are surrounded by 2/3 things designed abroad. Our export goods are resources (hydrocarbons, ore, metals, timber, wheat) and low-value products, such as chemistry. Our equipment, with the exception of weapons, is not competitive and no one needs in the world market. This is regrettable and outrageous, but true.

    This is not a fact, but your efforts of deliberate attempts to escalate the negative.
    Russia is a recognized leader in nuclear technology with a huge portfolio of orders around the world. Recently, the next atomic forum was held in Sochi. They expressed a desire to cooperate, incl. Japanese, for example, in addition to developing countries.
    In a related field, the synthesis of superheavy elements, we are also leading.

    Russia is also in the club of countries with the ability to build tokamaks, one of the leaders in this very promising field of knowledge and the developer of the entire technology from the very beginning.

    Russia is one of the few countries capable of producing AFAR components on its own.

    With all fair criticism of the state of our electronics, we are one of the countries that can be counted on the fingers of one hand, capable of designing our own CPUs comparable in performance with Intel products.

    Russia is the undisputed world leader in the construction of icebreakers.

    In terms of Internet access, Russia ranks first among the 50 countries with the highest GDP. There are prerequisites for the fact that 5G technologies in Russia will develop at a faster pace.

    You can go on.

    You, claiming to be a kind of expert on the forum, did not know anything about this? Do you have less horizons than high school students? You know and understand perfectly. But you are here with a definite purpose: to pour mud, try to create the illusion of complete backwardness, to escalate negative.
    1. region58
      region58 April 24 2019 01: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      You can go on.

      You can and should continue, and we have something to be proud of. But also problems above the roof. And pretending that everything is fine is not the best option (in my opinion, of course). But, a strange trend is observed - often those who talk about problems are immediately recorded in the "American fans". Well, at least not spies, and then okay ...
  • Old26
    Old26 April 21 2019 21: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: Infinity
    The author could google it all before publishing.

    What for? After all, the article is designed for people to pick. After all, the Americans have a “giant accident” - an anomaly at the stand. So the replacement of our "Union" is already "failed" negative

    Quote: SRC P-15
    We see yet another failure of the Americans

    Failure? Dragon crashed? launch vehicle explosion * Damn. It is not known what kind of anomaly arose during the test, but already a "failure". This is not a failure. This is a routine in testing new technology. Which was and will be for everyone ...

    Quote: SRC P-15
    standing as a pillar of our Russian RD-180.

    How many of these pillars should we put know? The last contract, which was concluded in July 2018, is designed to supply 2019 RD-2022 engines during 20-180. On average, they display 1/5 - 1/6 of their carriers on our engines. So this "pillar" is very, very ephemeral ...

    Quote: KOCMOC
    A reliable Union is quite enough for our tasks.

    And after 50 years we will beat ourselves with a heel in the chest, saying that this is enough? When there are no others. Very comfortable position.
    Sergei Pavlovich planned in the 70s to replace the "Union" with a more modern one. However, we continue to operate for half a century and say that "we have enough" ....

    Quote: loki565
    Without these emergency engines, it will not fly anywhere.

    Kamrad, like that Chukchi, not a reader, but a writer? Testing was carried out by the engines of the emergency rescue system during landing. If the parachute system would not work, the engines work (or vice versa). Prior to this, a dozen flights of the "Dragon" were without CAC engines and nothing. Flew

    Quote: AshiSolo
    With the crew - yes, it won’t fly. Why take the risk if you can do without it? But here the question is only in time. And then what will you say, gentlemen, patriots? From the fact that he did not fly, our cosmonautics received nothing ... Places are already bought. Well, they will buy another year. And then?

    The question is rhetorical, whether or not they will fly. In August, they may not fly, but maybe they will. It all depends on whether intermediate tests or not and how quickly they identify the causes.

    Quote: AwaZ
    And so, I agree that all these games with the return of the stages, the reusability of the ship - banal PR

    Well, since the reusability of the ship is a stupid banal PR - it means that Soviet designers were stupid from the beginning. For the "Dawn" HZ when the Americans were created as a reusable ship. Well, since all this is a stupid banal PR - that's why we are going to do it in the future ... Or they will have it PR, and we will have "no analogue in the world" ???

    Quote: Tusv
    Quote: 777-3-59-97
    As always, a loud headline does not match the description of the news.

    Well, why doesn’t it? Very much. The Union’s crew rescue in non-standard situations is already a banal function. The whole world recently became convinced of this. Everybody is alive. Dragon still, everyone died. So work to work and work again. And then, after all, the NASA astronaut will say, well, nafig, I don’t have a purple heart above me, I’d better fly to the Union

    Do not in