In India, commented on the article NI on the Russian Su-57

In the American edition of National Interest, there was an article devoted to the latest Russian multipurpose fighter of the 5 generation, the Su-57. The article by Mark Episcopos, which refers to Russian sources, says that for the time being, Russian funding can only be enough for a dozen and a half of such aircraft - for the needs of the Russian Federation Air Force.

The author notes that 15 airplanes of the new generation will obviously not be able to cover all the needs of the Russian Aerospace Forces. In this case, the reference is made in the direction of India, and it is this reference in the publication of the American magazine that immediately led to increased interest in it from the Indian media and military experts.

From material to NI:

A major investor such as India can be vital for financial support for the Su-57 platform for decades to come.

Recall that earlier in New Delhi announced their withdrawal from cooperation with Russia in the project to create a promising FGFA fighter. According to the Indian side, the Russian aircraft does not meet the characteristics of the 5 generation fighter by its stealth parameters and engines.

In the American magazine the subject of engines is picked up. Episkopos notes that Su-57 was originally designed for the "30 product" - the newest power plant. However, on the aircraft of the first, small, series installed engines of the previous version.

From the NI article:

For Russia, the Su-57 will truly be the flagship fighter if it goes into a large series. Moreover, the series should be made in the format of a fast and affordable process.

It is worth paying attention to the comments of Indian media readers who reprinted an article from the National Interest. Comments on the portal Indian Defense News whether India has an interest in Russian Su-57.

Not with such engines. The layout of this engine is such that it becomes a kind of open target for the enemy radar.

Russians order literally units of these fighters in 2019 and 2020. They do this with the goal of keeping the team backbone on the production line in the hope of finding buyers.

In India, they do not hide the fact that they are waiting from Russia for "bringing the aircraft to the parameters of the 5 generation". And the main stumbling block in this case - the engines. As soon as Russia demonstrates Su-57 with engines of a new stage, New Delhi may well declare its readiness to “return” to the program. In this case, according to the Indian tradition, the transfer of technology will be immediately requested.

Comments

[Mountain shooter]

At the farmer's market? I always call them gypsies. Behave accordingly. Transfer technology to them? What for? What will they do with them? Will they be sold to the Americans?

[vkl.47]

Let them fly for a moment-21 .... near Pakistan

[Tatar 174]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Will they be sold to the Americans?

At the first opportunity. It’s like in a well-known parable: How can one not drink water from a well in hot heat while standing at a well? Moreover, it’s not its own well.

[Stas157]

The situation is clear. Indians bluntly state that they do not want to buy an aircraft that Russia does not buy by itself. They do not want to finance at their own expense developments that do not go to the series.

Most likely, the alignment would be completely different if Moscow would order at least 50-100 aircraft for itself, showing the seriousness of the project. Everyone would be in a win, both the Russian aerospace forces, and KnAAZ, and the Indians.

[Nic1980]

I am only for loading the production line, incl. and because it leads to a cheaper unit of production, but India acted recklessly, because they have their own set of requirements for the aircraft, which entails quite serious changes to the design of the Su-57. And all this requires time and money, so they have already lost a lot of time, and they won’t be able to catch up with China without purchasing 5th generation aircraft produced outside India.
Well, about the production of the Su-57 in our country - until the passage of the entire necessary complex of tests and experimental operation, the elimination of "childhood" illnesses, which may take more than one year (judge for yourself by the ordeal of the F-35) - piece assembly according to temporary technical processes make airplanes extremely expensive - in connection with which now a large series can only be in the mid-term plans.
The presence of 15 aircraft is sufficient for testing and trial operation. We will hope that our designers will overcome technical openings with honor, and this aircraft will be large-scale and successful commercially in the foreign market.

[jjj]

I would also like to note that in 1941 the new Soviet aircraft also had engines "not up to the fifth generation." And already in 1945 they completely surpassed "this fifth generation".
A little later, we did not have our first generation of jet engines. Copied German, won the British cards. And then how it started ...

[Pathos]

Correct won the billiards

[alaarsen]

I’m afraid it’s not worth comparing the USSR, especially from the time of Stalin, with today's Russia.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: jjj

And already in 1945 they completely surpassed "this fifth generation".

Which engine was superior in German or American in terms of displacement? or at least be on an equal footing? we will not take into account the mass of the aircraft

[1Alexey]

Stas157 (Stas)
The situation is clear. Indians bluntly state that they do not want to buy an aircraft that Russia does not buy by itself. They do not want to finance at their own expense developments that do not go to the series.

Most likely, the alignment would be completely different if Moscow would order at least 50-100 aircraft for itself, showing the seriousness of the project. Everyone would be in a win, both the Russian aerospace forces, and KnAAZ, and the Indians.

Not certainly in that way. Do not forget that ours were supposed to develop together with India export 5th generation fighter version.

This is not the same as the C-57 for our army, it should have been a slightly different plane! This has been written more than once.
And claims from India to that export option.

[edge]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Transfer technology to them? What for?

yeah, on someone else’s hump in paradise, have learned the experience of British

[MONTEVIDEO01]

The weight of the Product 30 is 1200 kg, and its maximum thrust is 12 kgs, afterburner thrust is 000 kgs, the ratio of maximum thrust to afterburning is 18/000 to 2, as on all engines for fighter aircraft. The ratio of maximum thrust to thrust afterburner is usually 3% to 1%, that is, the maximum thrust is approximately 66/100 of the afterburner thrust. Therefore, based on the fact that the afterburner thrust of Item 2 is 3 kgs, the maximum thrust is 30 kgs. The F-18 has a maximum thrust of 000 kgs, and its afterburner is 12 kg. Rafal has a maximum thrust of 000 at 35 kgs, and afterburner 13 at 000k a. Eurofighter Typhoon has a maximum thrust of 19 at 500 kgs and an afterburner of 2 at 5 kgs. JAS 000 NG has a maximum thrust of 2 kgs and an afterburner of 7500 kgs. A MiG-2 maximum thrust of 6 at 000 kgs.
"Specific gravity in aviation is usually called the ratio of the engine mass to its total thrust. For the promising" Product 30 "this figure is less than 0,1, that is, the engine is capable of delivering more than 10 times more thrust than it weighs itself. ratio of total thrust to engine air flow. "
https://nplus1.ru/material/2019/03/06/engines
At least that was the case with the first version of Product 30.
“As Yevgeny Marchukov, General Designer of the A. Lyulka Design Bureau and the developer of Product 1, noted in an interview with N + 30, the specific gravity of this engine is 0,1. This means that it can produce ten times more thrust than it weighs itself. "
https://tehnowar.ru/100545-rassekrechen-novyj-dvigatel-su-57.html
The manufacturer of Product 30 plans to bring the thrust of two such engines in afterburner to 39 kgs, that is, Product 000 wants to bring to the engine parameters for F-30 kgf maximum thrust and 35.13 kgf afterburner.
http://ilsvik.ru/двигатель-изд-30-для-истребителя-пято/

[Simferopol]

Quote: MONTEVIDEO01

F-35 has a maximum thrust of 13 kgf, and its afterburner 000 kgf.

Only the F-35 has one engine, and the Su-57 - multiply by two

[Dimax-nemo]

And after that it’s completely incomprehensible, well, for hell, the thrust-weight ratio of approx. 1 at normal take-off weight without afterburner?

[1Alexey]

Quote: Simferopol

Quote: MONTEVIDEO01

F-35 has a maximum thrust of 13 kgf, and its afterburner 000 kgf.

Only the F-35 has one engine, and the Su-57 - multiply by two

But do not forget, at the same time, that the F-35 is a light fighter-bomber, and the Su-57 is heavy, it needs to be compared with the F-22, and not with the F-35.

[PROXOR]

You will laugh, but it is already scientifically proven that the gypsies and descended from the Indians. Just at some point a pack of these comrades took the wagons and flooded west.

[Skifotavr]

Such a class of weapons in general cannot be sold to just anyone, and even more so to such "comrades". Let them first learn how to use toilets, not to mention the maintenance of complex military equipment, and become a little more modest.

[Graz]

In any case, the Indians will never sell the version for internal use. really they don’t understand

[bessmertniy]

If they are so smart, then let them offer their engine.

[Cowbra]

In the 90s they were selling something that even did not fall into the army of the Russian Federation (So they are waiting for this

[Graz]

then it was still known technology

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Cowbra

In the 90s they were selling something that even did not fall into the army of the Russian Federation (So they are waiting for this

The Indians forced MiG-21 to modify for themselves - to return the built-in gun to the plane, then it was already on all subsequent modifications of the MiG-21.
The Su-30 with a rejected thrust vector was made first for Indians and with Indians' money.
T-90 appeared only under the order of the Indians.

[Pessimist22]

Let them buy SU 35, it is dancing so beautifully in the sky.

[Graz]

In fact, no one is more modern than the Su35 in the coming years of the fighter. and those still bend face

[boathouse]

To discuss Hindu "quirks" is no longer interesting and not even funny.

[orionvitt]

Something the Indians are completely stuck, sorting out the grubs. To behave this way, for starters, let them do something, even from a distance like that, and then they will tell what is better and what is not.

[Radio engineer]

What does it have to do with it? When you buy products in the store for your money (and not a small one in the case of the su-57), look to ensure that the products meet the declared quality and if something is wrong in them, I’m sure that you will ask the seller to return the money, or sold a good product. And imagine that the seller will tell you that they don’t like it, do it yourself first, and then be indignant.

[Volodin]

Quote: Radio engineer

When do you buy groceries at the store?

You are missing an important detail. India was not an easy buyer on this project. Russia and India signed a cooperation agreement. A lot of joint work was expected. But the joint work boiled down to the fact that India allocated part of the funds and then observed what the Russian design engineer would create. India did not like it - and it demanded money back, announcing its withdrawal from the "cooperation". That is, the example with the store does not quite reflect (or does not reflect at all) the reality with the Russian-Indian contract.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Radio engineer

What does it have to do with it?

Moreover, if you want to buy the best, but no one will sell it to you except Russia, you should not behave like a hysterical mistress. It turns out that they want "the same, but with mother-of-pearl buttons", and immediately answer themselves that they are like "no, then we will search." Let them search. The analogy about the store is unfortunate. In this case, Indians do not buy from the seller, but from the manufacturer. And the fact that they want to fool technology for free is so far modestly silent about it, they found fault with the engine. The same to me specialists in the fifth generation.

[vic02]

If you want to buy the best, but no one will sell it to you except Russia

I wonder how you and the rest of the commenting public would react to such news that if India suddenly decides to buy an F-35? Obviously, it is worse than the Su-57, but the main thing in the fact of the purchase.

[orionvitt]

Quote: vic02

what if India decides to buy an F-35?

It won’t be like that. Firstly, too expensive, especially in maintenance. Secondly, the Americans will never transfer their technology to India, which they always rely on in the first place. In the case of the SU-57, the Indians behave like a capricious wife, however, as always. Like, we pay money, and for this we want everything at once. In a word, they are being traded, while they also threaten to break the deal.

[1Alexey]

Quote: orionvitt

Quote: vic02

what if India decides to buy an F-35?

It won’t be like that. Firstly, too expensive, especially in maintenance. Secondly, the Americans will never transfer their technology to India, which they always rely on in the first place. In the case of the SU-57, the Indians behave like a capricious wife, however, as always. Like, we pay money, and for this we want everything at once. In a word, they are being traded, while they also threaten to break the deal.

Yes, let them tear. Security is more important than money. Technologies of this level cannot be transferred!

The US banned the F-22 from selling at all (even without technology transfer and even to its NATO allies).

[Wedmak]

When buying a product in a store, you do not require to sell the technology of its manufacture with it. Moreover, the Indians still want to assemble these fighters in their territory. And this is not just the sale of technology, this is the sale of almost finished production.

[IL-18]

Quote: orionvitt

let them do that

On the one hand, you are right. On the other hand, they want to get the most for their money, like any buyer. And organizations that trade with India need to be respectful to a solvent buyer, because there is another seller. And if our traders are dissatisfied with something and do not want to work with India, let them go to the personnel department and write a letter of resignation. This applies in particular to management, i.e. effective megahares of all organizations like "... - export". He sat down in a chair, earn money for the employer, in this case, the state.

[orionvitt]

Quote: IL-18

there is another seller

You might think that such a product in the world heaps. And not one, as you say the seller, will never agree to the transfer (even to sale) of such technologies. so let them search.

[Victor_B]

Well, the Indians have at least some real information.
Still, they even invested in this project.
And then either regretted the money, or REALLY there is not everything in chocolate (hell knows what is bad there). The engine of the first stage is not to offer. I think the Indians were counting on a new one.
Or maybe the Americans and the French "brought in" more money, and for that money the Americans, I think, at the same time, the Indians leaked technical information on the SU-57. Everything we knew. And they knew a lot.

[Ponchik78]

They didn’t know anything. Therefore, they even pouted their lips and did not let them close to secrets.

[Victor_B]

"You hurt, boss" (c)!
Well, do not fool Indians to expose!
They have bought / are purchasing so much military equipment from us and are going to buy that for the sake of these orders they are shown / told a lot.
SU-30MKI is a project developed from scratch (based on SU-27) for India and for their money. Then our commander-in-chief took a ride on it and "wanted". The car turned out to be successful.
MFGA - this is the development (should have been) the creation of a NEW 2-seater fighter based on SU-57.
So if I want to order the design of a new aircraft, well, really, I don’t take an interest in what the designer has? I will not get acquainted with the existing device?

[Saffron]

It turns out interesting: if you bring the plane to our requirements, then we are friends, share. And if not, then goodbye ... How about working together? This is called COOPERATION

[Ponchik78]

After the "excursion" of the Americans around Nerpa, the Indians cannot see any technologies from us as their ears.

[Wedmak]

New Delhi may well declare its readiness to "return" to the program. At the same time, according to Indian tradition, technology transfer will be requested immediately.

Well done: We will not participate in the fine-tuning, it is expensive and not interesting. We will wait until you have completely brought all the fighter technologies to the required condition, and then we will try to buy everything on the cheap, after spending a couple of years in the "buy or not buy" dance.

[cniza]

They always behaved this way and will not change, let them dance further, the engine will be China, they are a good competitor.

[Berg berg]

Let China buy their 9th generation airplane! China always made big bids, and after checking it turned out that they were doubled, but America and the West didn’t sin! Recently, China announced that their J-20s are the most 5-generation ones and they purchased engines from the SU-35!

[rocket757]

To go to the tsuzom hump, this is considered "normal" among the "partners".
And you can't send it directly, you have to "dance with tambourines", support the market bargaining!
To say that we are not a Land of Soviets, we cannot afford much !!! Unfortunately this is so. We are weaker, we are poorer, the only question is, why actually? How to fix it?

[Zubr]

In this case, according to the Indian tradition, the transfer of technology will be immediately requested.

It is not excluded ..

[Alexey-74]

Maybe the Su-57 has financing questions, but it looks more like a regular market, who will kill someone, after the engines of the second stage and, accordingly, Su-57 with new engines go to the series, I think the situation will change dramatically ...

[pafegosoff]

The latest engine immediately pecks China. Click India on the nose and intercept the engines. And the Americans, the Indians, also ran away to give the novies ... And as they feel a bummer, they will bark.
And China is still an irritant for them.

[sleeve]

There is even less peace in India. Specifically, the border passes. Well, in New Delhi, everything seems to be decided. Goodbye. Finished is more expensive.

[nobody111body]

in their idiotic articles, the Jews are trying to show that Russia has a "complete failure" in the arms trade with India - laughter; since the times of the USSR, we have not and never will have any disagreements with India; but a handful of amerskih Jews will always have enmity with Mexico and almost all countries of the "Latinos"

[K-50]

Not with such engines. The layout of this engine is such that it becomes a kind of open target for the enemy radar.

One of the adversaries decided to be smart.
All turbojet engines are arranged in the same way, but this is difficult to explain something, too "smart".

[A.K.]

This is all of course understandable. The engines are not the same. The layout is not the same and all that. But as soon as we bring to mind and series the engine of the second stage. That the prices and terms of sale, I think, will be completely different since the development will be entirely ours and not at least partly in conjunction with the Indians as previously proposed in the FGFA project. Well, about the transfer of any significant technologies, I think there can be no question. And buyers will find everything in due time. Turkey, for example, what the hell is not joking.

[pafegosoff]

The latest engine immediately pecks China. Click India on the nose and intercept the engines. And the Americans, the Indians, also ran away to give the novies ... And as they feel a bummer, they will bark.
And China is still an irritant for them.

[Demagogue]

Hindus correctly claim. They also announced the aircraft of the 5th generation, but so far only 4, albeit with a large number of pluses. And there is no bargaining here. They urgently need such a machine for parity with China. And we let them down, well, at the same time. The deadlines are all broken, now the Indians are talking about the year 2025, and if they are talking about the year 2025, then already 2030 loomed. They were forced to buy Raphael from the French for big money when they realized that there would be no 5th generation. That's it, our money is bye. At least part.
And their throwing is not gypsy, as they say here, but the result of the fact that we cannot make the product that they need, and they are looking for an alternative.

[Nic1980]

Look at the F-35, for a number of parameters it is also difficult to call it the 5th generation, and how much is the permanent elimination of the identified deficiencies ?, India acted recklessly, because they have their own set of requirements for the aircraft, which entails quite serious changes to the design of the Su-57. And all this requires time and money, so they have already lost a lot of time.
Well, how this situation was going on - it was like a game - who will go further on someone's hump is a purely financial issue - but as I said, in this situation the most expensive thing for India is time that you can’t buy for money.

[EvilLion]

As part of the Russian Air Force that 15 Su-57, that 115 is almost equally small money. Instead of them, Su-35 is still being built, which is hardly much cheaper, if cheaper at all, since for Su-57 a reduction in the number of parts in 4 times is stated, and this radically reduces the cost of assembly. The question is not that there is no money, and even not in the engines, well, he will be with Ed. 30 fly 100 km / h faster, radically it does not raise its effectiveness. The question is in the formation of a system for using such a machine. And it is precisely this, like the imitation of the F-35, that is most likely to be worked out on the first combat vehicles. Without this, Su-57 will be just Su-35 on steroids.

[Herman 4223]

There, not only a hundred kilometers faster, they somehow solved the problem with sparkling blades, and reduced fuel consumption.

[EvilLion]

Dug cherries
Hindu said: "I am superfluous"
Five trees - five guys
I went to the garden in vain.

How did the cherries ripen
Hindu goes to the garden
"Well, now you are superfluous",
The guys say.

[Demagogue]

Quote: Nic1980

Look at the F-35, for a number of parameters it is also difficult to call it the 5th generation, and how much is the permanent elimination of the identified deficiencies ?, India acted recklessly, because they have their own set of requirements for the aircraft, which entails quite serious changes to the design of the Su-57. And all this requires time and money, so they have already lost a lot of time.
Well, how this situation was going on - it was like a game - who will go further on someone's hump is a purely financial issue - but as I said, in this situation the most expensive thing for India is time that you can’t buy for money.

So the Indians are not only negotiating with us. Buying Raphael is an example. But he was already Rafal today, and not in 2030, when they can already sell them f35. Which has an advanced radar with AFAR and the engine is hidden under a radar-absorbing screen, and does not shine. But there is also Eurofighter, also a very serious car.

[Nic1980]

The issue is the transfer of technology, since the purchased Rafali was partially assembled in India from machine kits, without the transfer of technology + a significant increase in the cost of 1 aircraft.
With all due respect to other manufacturers from other countries - many different planes - without the ability to carry out major repairs and produce spare parts - this is a logistical nightmare, but it’s very expensive.
And in India, historically, a lot is "sharpened" for Soviet and Russian technology.
Therefore, the games of India I will / will not be - this is an element of bargaining - since they now have local aircraft manufacturing enterprises in a difficult situation, including financially.

[Herman 4223]

Do not believe the su-57 is also a radar with AFAR, more advanced, there is the possibility of side-by-side viewing, a decameter radar for aircraft search using stealth technology, the declared target range with an EPR of 1m2 400kilometers !!! is almost two times more than that of f35.that As for the sparkling blades of the engine, on YF-23 (a competitor to the raptor when creating), the blades also sparkled, but on the criterion of stealth, it was superior to YF-22 (Raptor), and according to the latest news, we managed to get rid of this problem in product 30. So You shouldn’t belittle the dignity of our aircraft in your comments you eat.

[Boomandroid]

Quote: Stas157

The situation is clear. Indians bluntly state that they do not want to buy an aircraft that Russia does not buy by itself. They do not want to finance at their own expense developments that do not go to the series.

Most likely, the alignment would be completely different if Moscow would order at least 50-100 aircraft for itself, showing the seriousness of the project. Everyone would be in a win, both the Russian aerospace forces, and KnAAZ, and the Indians.

Sometimes I am struck by the stupidity of some minusculers ... After all, a person really logically substantiated his thought, and you are minuses, like grannies at a paddy, it is easier to write that they are gypsies, etc. favorite words IN!

[sanches-nk]

Analitegi yoyo. The announced price of the SU-57 of 2 billion rubles = 30 million dollars, does not just fit into the framework of the military budget, but goes whistlingly.
After all, it’s clear that the aircraft is brought to a state when it will surpass the SU-35S by its head and only then will it be massively purchased.
The engines of the second stage will only be put on the plane in the 20th year, plus you have to break in the time for a year or two, finish rockets for it, etc.
So we can conclude that the year after 2024 is likely to go into a large series, but for now there is something to upgrade from standing in service and release the new 35th, which has the potential for many more years. taking into account the development of radar systems, missile weapons, electronic warfare systems and electronic warfare systems.

[Rock616]

To begin with, let these Papuans learn how to assemble the T-90s for which they have all the technical documentation, and only then swipe at salutes.

[Demagogue]

Quote: Nic1980

The issue is the transfer of technology, since the purchased Rafali was partially assembled in India from machine kits, without the transfer of technology + a significant increase in the cost of 1 aircraft.
With all due respect to other manufacturers from other countries - many different planes - without the ability to carry out major repairs and produce spare parts - this is a logistical nightmare, but it’s very expensive.
And in India, historically, a lot is "sharpened" for Soviet and Russian technology.
Therefore, the games of India I will / will not be - this is an element of bargaining - since they now have local aircraft manufacturing enterprises in a difficult situation, including financially.

So Israel is slowly transferring the same technology to them. And not only. The radar with AFAR did without us.
And about the enterprises in crisis - hal state corporation, nothing will happen to them.
It will be with us, we will lose huge amounts and the market. There is no Su-57 yet, there is a lot he promised, but the Indians sensibly proposed the scheme "chairs in the morning, money in the evening." They do not want to finance the drinkers in our military-industrial complex. They have their own))

[Nic1980]

Not quite right, there is a joint venture and a clearly defined CO-FINANCING scheme.
India, having signed a contract under the pretext of "everything" is bad - it refused to continue financing the project, and ours refused to work for it.
My opinion - this situation is not for us not in India - will not bring any benefits. We could agree and work on the part of the airframe and cockpit, waiting for data on the propulsion system.
The very concept of the Su-57 is a reflection of the principle of air control that prevails in our Air Force.
If the Hindus have other requirements and Wishlist - in can be solved at the stage of design work.
The question is the degree to which the concept of the original machine is refined - and this is a little money.
As they say: Eat the cabin and do not wash the plate.

[Simferopol]

It is unlikely that we will not force because of money - the Su-35 is not much cheaper than the Su-57. Obviously, Moscow Region does not want to buy a large batch with the engine of the first stage, although it corresponds to the 5th generation. In no case should technology be transferred to Hindus

[Sova]

Quote: vkl.47

Let them fly for a moment-21 .... near Pakistan

Moreover, from their words, he showed himself well in recent clashes with Pakistan.

[Demagogue]

Quote: Simferopol

It is unlikely that we will not force because of money - the Su-35 is not much cheaper than the Su-57. Obviously, Moscow Region does not want to buy a large batch with the engine of the first stage, although it corresponds to the 5th generation. In no case should technology be transferred to Hindus

In order to transfer technologies, you still need to have them)) Borisov explained to everyone intelligibly like. Su-57 makes no sense. Because the advantages over the Su-35 are minimal. Stealth is better, but not breakthrough, there is no new radar. It is not known when it will be. Raw planes of the "5th generation" to be put into the troops for the sake of PR like the Chinese - there is no money.

[Nic1980]

Yes, avionics is a weak point, but no one forbids the Hindus to put other on-board systems and develop their own software - they themselves will sleep better.
Distractedly, it is rumored that AFAR as such is not being promoted to the right degree, since Russia and China are working hard on photon radars.

[Demagogue]

Quote: Nic1980

Not quite right, there is a joint venture and a clearly defined CO-FINANCING scheme.
India, having signed a contract under the pretext of "everything" is bad - it refused to continue financing the project, and ours refused to work for it.
My opinion - this situation is not for us not in India - will not bring any benefits. We could agree and work on the part of the airframe and cockpit, waiting for data on the propulsion system.
The very concept of the Su-57 is a reflection of the principle of air control that prevails in our Air Force.
If the Hindus have other requirements and Wishlist - in can be solved at the stage of design work.
The question is the degree to which the concept of the original machine is refined - and this is a little money.
As they say: Eat the cabin and do not wash the plate.

The Hindus officially declared that they were ready to buy the Su57 on a common basis when it was ready. Moreover, they may be small, but they have already invested money in development. Almost 300 million like. We are not at a loss here. The Indians simply have a confrontation with China, and they need modern fighters until 2022.

[Demagogue]

Quote: Nic1980

Yes, avionics is a weak point, but no one forbids the Hindus to put other on-board systems and develop their own software - they themselves will sleep better.
Distractedly, it is rumored that AFAR as such is not being promoted to the right degree, since Russia and China are working hard on photon radars.

So the Indians and so on. And on MKI there are already many Indian systems.
Only children believe in fairy tales about photon radars. It's like the Chinese, who can’t make a 4 ++ fighter, but claim that 5 is ready. Let us then immediately immediately gravitational sensors))

[Fantazer911]

As soon as Russia demonstrates the Su-57 with engines of the new stage, New Delhi may well declare its readiness to "return" to the program. At the same time, according to Indian tradition, technology transfer will be requested immediately.

And can’t you grease your face with jam or honey before transferring the production technology of SU-57?

[Bodipancher]

Interestingly, the Indians demand the fifth generation, and they are fighting with their sworn enemy Pakistan in 21 MIGs. A huge number of tanks at the same time, most of them are inoperative. An amazing country!

[Alexander Petrov1]

From a dead donkey you have ears, not the world's best engines (for which Russia spent 20 years and spent a billion dollars).

[meandr51]

It is necessary for Pakistan to sell them ...

[alaarsen]

Well, we don’t want to transfer technology - don’t! Let's build on our money. What is the problem then? And, it’s not their money ... More precisely, they seem to be there, but there isn’t enough money for the construction of a 5th generation fighter. And the Indians have it. Enough already to treat other countries down and with mockery - this is not the situation. Objective facts and figures suggest otherwise.

[1Alexey]

With this approach, you can lose all the advantages of a 5th generation fighter, because secrets can become known to the enemy.

[alaarsen]

So why then start venturing to develop a strategically important weapon with other people's money and with the intention of selling it? If you are talking about my approach - you need to build for yourself and with your money. And then, judging by the number of planned purchases, it seems that the 5th generation fighter was made for sale. For some reason, India has money for it, but we don’t ..

[1Alexey]

You are wrong and apparently just do not know how everything was. So now I’ll tell you with a prehistory.

Initially, the Russian Federation and India reached an agreement on the creation of a joint 5th generation fighter. At the same time, India was supposed to invest part of the money and part of its technology in this project.
Then India silently retired formally without refusing, but without taking part.

Then, when the Russian Federation, for its money and only with its technologies, developed the Su-57 project (then PAK FA) and flight tests began, India remembered the agreement on a joint project for the 5th generation fighter and decided to enter it.
Then the Russian Federation proposed to India, in accordance with previously reached agreements, to jointly develop and produce an export version of the 5th generation fighter. Which was supposed to be developed not by coarsening the characteristics of the Su-57, but as a new aircraft, that is, "from scratch".

India was supposed to invest in this export option, both its own technologies (but at the same time, most of the technologies would be Russian), as well as part of the money. It was this aircraft that was supposed to go into the arsenal of India, and also go for export, from which India would also receive part of the profit.

India requested the transfer of all technology to this export aircraft. Russia has refused.
Later, India put a series of claims to it and requested the Su-57 (domestic version). Russia refused.

India - left the project.

[alaarsen]

I don’t know where you got such information, but I follow the publications in the press and there the picture was like I said. The aircraft was developed with the help of Indian investments - moreover, it was planned to purchase 55 units for the Russian army, more than 100 for India .. Indians initially insisted on technology transfer. And they left the project because of the extended periods and the unavailability of the engine of the second modification ..

[Dimax-nemo]

I just can't understand one thing. And that everyone clung to the AL-41? "Previous generation" ..... Does the F-35 have much better supersonic performance than the Su-57? Yes, it doesn't look like it. All the more so because you can't cram much into the internal bays of an American's weapons. Unlike the Su-57. Are the characteristics of Chinese engines known for the 5th (sort of) generation? No. In addition to the fact that on the JC-31 in 2012 there were, apparently .... RD-93.
So what are we talking about? I don't believe in "unobtrusive" compressor blades. All attempts to hide them lead, as a rule, to a deterioration in supersonic performance.

[Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock]

Quote: PROXOR

You will laugh, but it is already scientifically proven that the gypsies and descended from the Indians. Just at some point a pack of these comrades took the wagons and flooded west.

Did you pour acid on the wounds of the "descendants" of the Indo-Iranian Aryans?

[Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock]

I believe that in this case, India wants to get the perfect plane for little money and proven technology "on a silver platter."
Therefore, India will keep all sellers on a short leash, buy small lots, blackmail sellers with purchases from competitors, acquire all sorts of different technologies, save on R&D and procurements themselves and money and time.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Simferopol

It is unlikely that we will not force because of money - the Su-35 is not much cheaper than the Su-57. Obviously, Moscow Region does not want to buy a large batch with the engine of the first stage, although it corresponds to the 5th generation. In no case should technology be transferred to Hindus

Yes, in my opinion, it is impossible to sell the Su-57 in the next 20 years. Su-35 and that with great caution should be sold.

With the participation of India, we should not have created this Su-57, but its export counterpart, which should have been noticeably different from the Su-57 and possibly labeled differently.
It was written about this much earlier that it was supposed to be a slightly different plane. But of course, all of its technologies cannot be transferred either.

And then India claims precisely to that export option.
At one time, India wanted to get exactly the Su-57, and ours refused (and did it right), from that moment serious disagreements went.

India refused to participate in another deteriorated model - the export option.

[asr55]

Not ordered until there was a second stage engine. And now it’s undergoing tests with this dviglom. The first contract has already been concluded for two aircraft, the second in 2020 for 13 aircraft. And the main thing is that with these engines of the first stage, he will wipe the nose of any aircraft.

[Vdi73]

Can’t you take the technology of hypersonic missiles and s-500?

[Alexander Borisov]

Let them request technology transfer on F-35 from the USA.