In the Ministry of Industry announced the creation of a Russian processor "Elbrus-8SV"

The developers of the Russian Elbrus microprocessor line have completed the creation of a new high-performance processor commissioned by the Ministry of Industry and Trade and pursuant to a Government decree on the state defense order, reports bmpd blog referring to the CNews web resource.

According to CNews, the project to create the Russian universal 64-bit eight-core microprocessor has been completed. The work was carried out by the MCST company for almost 5 years, 621 million rubles were spent for development work.

The project “Processor 9” with the architecture “Elbrus” was completed in 2018, the processor is fully developed, successfully tested and adopted by the commission. There are no comments on the results of the commission’s work. Documentation is ready for mass production.

said the press service of the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

“Processor-9” was developed using 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm), operates at a frequency of 1,5 GHz, has a peak performance of 576 GFlops single precision and 288 GFlops double precision. Compared to foreign products, the characteristics of Elbrus 8B are comparable to Intel Itanium 9760, Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 and Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4.

The Ministry of Industry and Trade believes that on the basis of the Russian “Processor-9” you can create personal computers, high-performance workstations, servers of various assignments with a capacity up to 2 TFlops, in various data centers and super-computer petaflops.

Comments

[Pereira]

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

[Blackmokona]

The series soon, will be produced in Taiwan, will cost expensive

[Chertt]

Quote: maximum 8

Light fighter of the 5th generation. Twin-engine fighter. Why? Type 30 of the second stage would be suitable. Or Klimovtsev want to support?

This is only preliminary information. Ten more times everyone will replay. And if the Indians join the project, then every week there will be info reasons

[maximum 8]

This is not preliminary information, but the specific development of engines for a light fighter of the 5th generation. And what does the Indians have to do with it, they don’t cook porridge, they need the Mig-35. They want to make a light fighter of the 5th generation together with the UAE, meaning the export version.

[bayard]

These conversations have been around for four years now (I don’t know whether to work). If you can make a light a la T-50 at the expense of the Emirates, why not? It will not be superfluous, the question is in the engine - it takes too much time for this, but is there any hurt, it is not clear.
And on the basis of "Product-30" now the Yakovlev design bureau is doing magic, they have their own verticals ...

[stalker]

a la T-50 due to the Emirates,

Rather a la "type 30". The idea itself is not devoid of meaning, although the prospects for its implementation are vague. There is a lot of politics around these measures and absurd statements. For example, how could Product 9 be seen as the basis for a fifth-generation LPI, or why would the UAE have a two-burner light fighter?

[newcomer]

maximum 8, the fact is that our Arabs and I agreed on the creation of a five LFI on the basis of the MIG29 airframe, I just can’t imagine the 29th with one engine.

[Nick_R]

The work was carried out by the MCST company for almost 5 years,

In modern conditions it is impossible to engage in the development of a high-tech product for 5 years. During this time, it is already out of date. They do not boast of it, they are ashamed of it

[vadson]

ashamed to do nothing at all

[Buffet]

We had a lag about 15 years. Yes, the characteristics of the processor came close to what it was 3-5 years ago, but this is a breakthrough in electronics for Russia. And then we'll see. To compete on an equal footing with giants such as Intel, Xilinx, Altegro, tomorrow’s development is needed. For example, Xilinx, has long wanted to swing at 7 nm. And apparently they get it.

[ccsr]

Quote: SHVEDsky_stol

And then we'll see. To compete on an equal footing with giants such as Intel, Xilinx, Altegro, tomorrow’s development is needed. For example, Xilinx, has long wanted to swing at 7 nm. And apparently they get it.

In fact, you can compete with them, and for this, according to various estimates, you need to invest about 25-40 billion dollars now in the development of this industry in Russia. Then we will become world leaders, but the trouble is that we will never be allowed into the world market, and it turns out that we will never justify the investment, selling the best processors only in the domestic market. And it turns out that we will constantly ruin ourselves if we set a goal to overtake all the world's giants - they will still have in aggregate more funds for R&D and for the modernization of mass production than ours.
This was encountered in the USSR back then, which is why they already understood that the market for even our best microchips is limited, and therefore they tried to develop their production based on the needs of the military sector, first of all.

[Wolverine]

Quote: BlackMokona

The series soon, will be produced in Taiwan, will cost expensive

Everything is knurled, as with breakthrough 10-layer printed circuit boards, we developed and produce the Chinese.

[Alexander Petrov1]

Yes, they are unlikely to be doing it in Taiwan, and indeed outside of Russia, and it made sense to invest money, and suddenly tomorrow no one canceled the sanctions or pressure of the United States on other countries, technological security and import substitution.

[Killemall]

M-yeah ... and Taiwan, whose sovereignty is completely dependent on the United States, is not the best choice to host production. sad s!

[faiver]

How much will it cost for the population?

- Why the hell is it for the population?

[Wedmak]

So yes, the population can’t live without Xeons with Itimums. ))) Of course, it would be nice to have such a processor, but in a computer of our own design, but at home. If universal processors are not particularly kept up with - intel and AMD have crushed the entire market, then there will definitely be a demand for specialized ones.

[keeper03]

That's the trouble, that for the population, advanced developments are intercepted by the intruders and enemies of the people, and in Russia the piece production remains in Russia !!! It is high time to cut this "tradition" in the bud, and not to boast of breakthroughs!

[silverwolf88]

it’s not a matter of price (this is not a commercial project ... for profitability we need production of 1 or more a year ... we don’t have such a market and never will) ... the matter is to protect the interests of the state ... and here the task it’s quite self-fulfilling ... even if it’s not the most modern technology ... it’s not iPhon so that it’s the latest and newest every year ...

[ccsr]

Quote: silberwolf88

the point is to protect the interests of the state.

This is the main goal, and it’s good that to achieve it we were able to create our own processor. It’s not entirely true about production - why not at our production base? Or are they already producing nothing in Zelenograd?

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

It’s not entirely true about production - why not at our production base?

In capitalism, there is one, but powerful all-overwhelming argument-CHEAPER. And no considerations of state security here do not.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

In capitalism, there is one, but powerful all-overwhelming argument-CHEAPER. And no considerations of state security here do not.

This is not at all the case if the processor was purposefully designed for military orders. It is not yet written who the customer is, and it is not clear why they developed it, and therefore we can only assume that it is not for strategic military equipment, the components of which must necessarily be of domestic production.

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

which components must be necessarily domestic production.

So it is domestic production. Who owns the plant? Russia. And the fact that it is located where Makar did not drive calves does not bother anyone in Putin's Russia. Half of our products are "Made in Russia", but look at the address of the manufacturer itself - "Made in China".

[ccsr]

Quote: Alf

Half of our products are "Made in Russia", but look at the address of the manufacturer itself - "Made in China".

Well, just not on sophisticated military equipment - this is not allowed there.

[Alf]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: Alf

Half of our products are "Made in Russia", but look at the address of the manufacturer itself - "Made in China".

Well, just not on sophisticated military equipment - this is not allowed there.

Honestly, I'm not so sure. Dviguns on frigates of the admiral series whose?

[bolt]

Quote: silberwolf88

... for payback, we need production of 1 or more per year ... we don’t have such a market and never will) ...

I wonder why?

Hundreds of aircraft are produced, dozens of ships, and yachts, in general, are single pieces. This does not prevent the corresponding firms from making billions in profits.

Apparently their ideas about the economy are somewhat different from yours.

Now about the "market". The Russian Federation has about 140 million inhabitants. This is about 30 million "households". Even if only in every tenth there is a computer on this MP, this is already 3 million .. Not counting enterprises and organizations.

By the way, in my family there are two computers, in the family of the eldest daughter - three, in the family of my son - two. There are two more tablets that travel between families. But somehow they did not take root.

My two friends have roughly the same story. This is a blah blah question about the domestic market.

To date, in my opinion, there are no technologies or industries that would be economically unprofitable to implement in our country, based on the volume of the domestic market.

[Nick_R]

I wonder why?

Because it is a completely non-competitive product, living, like many types of business in our country, on a budget cut. In fact, due to the pensions and salaries of our people.

[bolt]

Quote: Nick_R

I wonder why?

Because it is a completely non-competitive product, living, like many types of business in our country, on a budget cut. In fact, due to the pensions and salaries of our people.

And where about Putin !!!?

NOT FOR ANYTHING !!!

We need to carefully study the primary sources - Navalny and Skomorokhov.

Will come next time!

[Dart]

"Uncle, are you?" - a quote from the movie.

[Vadim237]

Not a million - but 36500000 then commercial production will be recouped.

[Irokez]

Quote: Pereira

When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

You will never get to the surface with your "when", "how much" and "tame" because what you are asking is whining and criticism. Start thinking and thinking positively.

[Non liberoid Russian]

they can not think differently, they have manuals purely for nagging

[Pereira]

What is written in an unlibrary training manual? When will the first hundred Su-57 stand on duty? Teach me to think correctly?

[alean245]

Teach me to think correctly?

What is the reason for the relative cheapness of Intel and AMD processors "for the people"? Yes on the volume of the series. These guys actually trampled the entire world market and rivet a bunch of processors a year. Do you seriously think that in case of release, let's say Elbrus with similar characteristics, people, especially over the hill, will rush to buy them just because "wow, the Russians have burned down the processor, we need to check it out"? So the volume of the series in the case of such a novelty will be a priori less, and the cost price will be higher. So you agree to exchange foreign hardware in your PC for domestic hardware, similar in characteristics, but two or even three times more expensive? First of all, all these Elbrus-Baikals and some of the domestic software are sawn for the military, as well as for various government agencies. Just in case, so that, for example, one fine day the computers in the units do not refuse to work due to the fact that someone overseas has pressed the "red button".
The lesson of thinking is over. Since you $ 1000

When will the first hundred Su-57 get on duty?

And she, this hundred, is badly needed right tomorrow? Well, if you need it and you are so happy for this business, then help the aircraft builders. They obviously can not cope without you .

[Pereira]

You greatly overestimated the importance of your advice. The maximum dollar.

[alean245]

Is this the only thing you could find fault with in the comments? It’s sad.

[Vasiliev Yu]

Is this the only thing you could find fault with in the comments? It’s sad.

Now you offer the whole country to take off on planes, as we are doing now for children for operations?
Type: if it is not interesting to the state, and you need it most of all, then take off and pay always and for everything with the whole herd for the state? So your way?

[Pereira]

Is this the only thing you could find fault with in the comments?

Not certainly in that way. I carefully read and appreciated.

[Non liberoid Russian]

what to tear and rivet the su-57 with all its children's sores and the lack of a 2 series engine? and then spend the loot on modernization? cry on

[Pereira]

Thinking positively is how? Teach. And better tell me when I can go to the store and buy? If tomorrow, then it is positive, if after three years, then I’m not sure.

[Mestny]

To teach to think positively?
Yes, easily!
True, there is one caveat - positive thinking is possible only on the basis of existing life experience.
I explain.
Positive thinking, or assessment of a situation arises strictly after a significant worsening of this very situation.
In other words, saying - "everything is cognized in comparison". If you lived in the 90s, you understand what the difference is between what was then and what is happening now.
If in those very 90s you were not born yet, you will NEVER understand what the difference is, and why the expression "putinvor" is a marker of minors.
... right now you can go to the store and buy.
If you have any money.
And you don’t have them.
But this is not the worst thing. The scary thing is that you, exactly you, will not be able to earn them. Which perfectly proves your question - "Teach you to think positively."
Learn it yourself.

[aglet]

Quote: Mestny

. you can go to the store right now and buy.

it has not yet been made for a store party. and it will cost at least 5 kilobax, how much his classmate cost 3 years ago. I will never buy a percentage for 5 kilobaxes, if you can buy the one that suits me, for 500bq. and, again, it is a server, why do I need this? And yet, except for the processor, the computer consists of many interesting things, of which not one is made

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Mestny

In other words, saying - "everything is cognized in comparison". If you lived in the 90s, you understand what the difference is between what was then and what is happening now.

Hehe, what if I lived in 90 better than now?

[Pereira]

Hehe, what if I lived in 90 better than now?

You can not say that. Apolitical.

[Pereira]

My friend, Mestny (Sergey), take good advice. Learn to articulate thoughts clearly, and then try to teach others. In the meantime, the misfortune.

[alean245]

And better tell me when I can go to the store and buy?

Baikal? Yeah right now
https://www.chipdip.ru/search?searchtext=байкал

So positive?

[Pereira]

But not very. There was no enthusiastic laughter.

[alean245]

Well then cry on

[Pereira]

Yes, I will mourn the unfulfilled dreams of the advanced Baikal. We'll have to buy Intel. And cheaper, and immediately.

[Irokez]

Quote: Pereira

Thinking positively is how?

At least so, and you can still glue the DVR on the left eye of the avatar - this is much more positive.

[Pereira]

Yeah. You are just a master of good advice. Keep up the good work and smile more often

[goose]

The picture as a positive person leads an ordinary populist-humanitarian, where the majority are girls, and as a negativist a techie guy.
It looks like a kind of manipulation of consciousness.

[maximum 8]

They don’t save on safety.

[Iline]

Quote: maximum 8

They don’t save on safety.

That's how it is. Only here the Latin on the processor somehow annoying. Is it really impossible to do without her? And then it can happen as it sometimes happens - you rub a little Russian name, and it is also written under it, but not in Russian anymore.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Iline

Only here the Latin on the processor somehow annoying.

if we have the first persons of the state through the word sin with Anglicisms, then what is there to be surprised.

[Egor-dis]

Quote: Iline

That's how it is. Only here the Latin on the processor somehow annoying. Is it really impossible to do without her?

And this is aimed at exporting. I would also like to see only Cyrillic on domestic products, but I understand that for this in Russia there must be consumers - like the Chinese. Well, if you dig deeper, then you need at least Cyrillic programming languages ​​(from school), your own (Cyrillic) github and the development of domestic software (in Cyrillic PL) for all universities to scatter.

[aglet]

Quote: Iline

That's how it is. Only here the latin on the processor somehow annoying

what to do in taiwan cyrillic not in use

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Iline

Only here the Latin on the processor somehow annoying. Is it really impossible to do without her? And then it can happen as it sometimes happens - you rub a little Russian name, and it is also written under it, but not in Russian anymore.

They went for export in Latin.

Well, we had enough in Cyrillic.

[Nick_R]

Do not save on safety

Even as they save. When there is nothing to eat is no longer safe.

[vadson]

don't eat up

[Nick_R]

Thank God, I have enough. And you, apparently, from those same federal officials with an average salary of 130 thousand? If you are not in the know, the vast majority of our pensioners receive about 15 thousand. And many are paid 20 thousand. You tell them that they do not need to save on security, let the belt tighten even tighter.

[Syroitel_nik]

Nikolay, why should you immediately cut the uterus in such a "cheeky" truth? It is only for the liberal shit gentlemen everything is bad. Either Satars, now Chubaisyatin, now Kostikov (Yeltsin's press secretary) all went straight out and took care of the refrigerators of Russian citizens. Either Kasparov is already frightened with blood when he comes to power. Gentlemen, whiners all-prophesied, YOU personally, YOU, what have you done for yourself, those who have, for your families? Maybe you've made a discovery in science. Maybe they took part in the development of a new field. Or took part in the creation of this PROCESSOR? Sitting on the couch like ***** everything is easy and carefree. Just think 20 years just destroyed, there is no production capacity. Fuck you have to do something. Then you do not go to Moskvich 402, apparently in a bummer, you need to submit a new one for your loved ones. You got nichrome who are not able, or who can not, only beer and to get rid of. This is yours.
You would read how China worked hard to become the current China.

[Nick_R]

I will answer briefly: I pay taxes, which then government officials arrange a cut in the budget. The rest is empty chatter.

[Syroitel_nik]

Give an example where there is no budget cut !!!! And if you would be so kind as to remind me, everything was good during the Yeltsin rule? Or were you at the White House in 93? No, then do not whine about taxes, sawing and the rest of the insolence.

[Alf]

Quote: maximum 8

They don’t save on safety.

In Russia, they still save.

[tranquil]

Quote: Pereira

How much will it cost for the population?

This product is not for the public.

[g1v2]

And what does the population have to do with it? Such processors will obviously not be affordable for the population in the next 10 years. In order for the price to be comparable with the same AMD or Intel, comparable volumes of production are needed. So - we need markets. But for enterprises, government agencies, defense and industry - just come in handy.

[aglet]

Quote: g1v2

But for enterprises, government agencies, defense and industry - just come in handy

for which the vast majority of enterprises, government agencies, etc. such a processor is for piece needs

[Nehist]

What price? The processor is built on the basis of frankly outdated architecture. That is, in terms of performance, it lagged behind by 10 years. In addition, nothing was said about the manufacturer’s support. Apparently it will be, as always, made a frank bullshit for a lot of money, but they forgot about security

[g1v2]

For his own purposes will do. Industry does not need frantic performance or top-end manufacturing processes. But the established production of its processors, albeit not top-end ones, is a huge plus. At the same time, there will naturally be inevitable support problems and it will all cost much more, and of course everything will be less convenient than buying the same AMD or Intel. It was clear from the beginning. It would be foolish to count on something else. And it is quite possible to have to force many plants and institutions to transfer to them. But for our industry as a whole and the security of the state, this is a strong plus. Well, do not forget. that this is the beginning of a long journey. Let's go along it - there will be many bumps, but in 15 years you can reach the level of tops. Let's not go - nothing will happen. It’s like with Chinese smartphones. The former were rare feces and constantly broke. Now - quite decent inexpensive devices. which crush competitors at their cost. Would stop after the first steps - and there would be nothing. The road will be overpowered by a walker. However.

[Lycan]

Quote: g1v2

The road will be overpowered by a walker. However.

100%
Mad or not mad, but even for fishing. PLC (of different levels of workload, and even for a small farm. households), some of these products could have gone. Automation improves productivity, and today it has a big impact on competitiveness. Well, not only for the military to invent all this, right?
PS: The way would have arisen "Elbrus-micro / -nano / -digit by the number of user processes / ..."

[Irokez]

Quote: g1v2

Let's not go - nothing will happen.

Verify the truth.
Not having passed all the steps of the stairs to the top can not be reached. But the whiners don’t understand this, because they probably know little about production, but they all have money for buying and selling or for services. But production is the most expensive area, which includes science, development, technology and production in metal itself, and until all these steps have passed, good luck has not been seen.
Those who are behind - they are catching up and sooner or later they are catching up, and those who did not start to run after them - they will go into oblivion.
Life has shown that ours is not a stranger, and it is always with you even during sanctions.

[venik]

Quote: Pereira

How much will it cost for the population?

=======
And the fig "population" needs an 8-core processor ??? In the "iPhone" or in the "laptop" to shove ??

[lis-ik]

Quote: venik

Quote: Pereira

How much will it cost for the population?

=======
And the fig "population" needs an 8-core processor ??? In the "iPhone" or in the "laptop" to shove ??

I now have a 10-core processor on a Chinese tablet. I am far from computer hardware, enlighten me what is actually a breakthrough and the importance of this processor?

[Ross xnumx]

In the Ministry of Industry announced the creation of a Russian processor "Elbrus-8SV"

Let's rejoice ... It remains to be assumed that the photo is not a full-size view ...

[Non liberoid Russian]

performance ... in this tablet, the percent does not even pull on one core of Elbrus

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Not Liberoid Russian

In this tablet, the percent does not even pull on one core of Elbrus

Do you have performance data, or you have a checker head and "Urya-ya!" decided to throw hats? Got data?

[Pereira]

Not liberoid throws non-liberoid manuals. It is ordered to rejoice - rejoice and do not ask provocative questions.

[Non liberoid Russian]

pedeiro found the goal to poke?)))

[Non liberoid Russian]

just what is used in tablets and the fact that elbrus has completely different technologies ... and is sharpened for completely different needs ... starting from instructions, ending with process and energy consumption ... math problems with the same floating point tablet percent and elbrus or intel they will solve in completely different ways ... the same usual database processing will simply overload the tablet, and server processes such as elbrus or intel will solve two times ... study architecture and types of processors first and then drive them to a fool

[Irokez]

I now have a 10-core processor on a Chinese tablet

This is a kind of advertising move to buy. For example, one processor does the vast majority of operations and it is enough, but if there are two, then the OS or program algorithm (which involves the use of a second processor) transfers some tasks and calculations to another processor, but this is not as much as it seems. A multiprocessor, so in general some kind of processor will roll around dead weight.
Sometimes a single processor with a high clock speed is better than two or three with a lower clock speed. But if the work performed has a large amount of computation (rendering, graphics, transcoding, archiving, statistics, encryption, decryption, and more), then all the cores are involved breaking up the overall large task into its constituent parts and each processor calculates its part, and this is faster in total than one core.
For surfing the Internet, watching movies and music from a tablet, even a single core is enough, but the more cores there are in your head the picture is formed, which is better and you pay for it, although this is already too much.
What is good about our developments is that they are truly sharpened for multi-core with OSes and software geared towards using multi-core processors where parallelization to small tasks takes place and in this bundle it turns out really steeper even with a lower clock speed than analogs from Intel or AMD .
For servers, other tasks with many concurrent operations should be nice.

[ccsr]

Quote: Irokez

This is a kind of advertising move to buy. For example, one processor does the vast majority of operations and it is enough, but if there are two, then the operating system or program algorithm (which involves the use of a second processor) transfers part of the tasks and calculations to another processor, but this is not as much as it seems.

I think that this is not only an advertising move, but also the ability to distribute the released heat energy to a large number of points, which allows us to solve the cooling problem in ultra-thin gadgets.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

I think that this is not only an advertising move, but also the ability to distribute the released heat energy to a large number of points, which allows us to solve the cooling problem in ultra-thin gadgets

all these points are in one place, which needs to be cooled

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

all these points are in one place, which needs to be cooled

You are too free to interpret the concept of "in one place", and nevertheless, when it is all in one processor, then you cannot cool it down without forced cooling. Which wearable gadget have you seen forced cooling?

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

You are too free to interpret the concept of "in one place", and nevertheless, when it is all in one processor, you cannot cool it down without forced cooling.

Well, what am I talking about? All these points are in one processor, and if the dead phone processor has a passive cooling system, then for a more or less powerful processor for a laptop you need a fan, not to mention something more powerful

Quote: ccsr

but also the ability to distribute the released thermal energy to a large number of points, which allows us to solve the cooling problem in ultra-thin gadgets.

Where is this large number of points located? is not it in the processor?

[Barbarian375]

Quote: Irokez

What is good about our developments is that they are truly sharpened for multi-core with OSes and software geared towards using multi-core processors where parallelization to small tasks takes place and in this bundle it turns out really steeper even with a lower clock speed than analogs from Intel or AMD .

You can also add that a processor with a lower clock speed generates less heat, consumes less energy and is less susceptible to electromagnetic radiation.

[aglet]

Quote: Barbarian 375

You can also add that a processor with a lower clock speed generates less heat, consumes less energy and is less susceptible to electromagnetic radiation.

if there will be amy, on the side, how many cores are there

[aglet]

Quote: Barbarian 375

You can also add that a processor with a lower clock speed produces less heat, consumes less power

and runs slower

[Pilat2009]

Quote: lis-ik

enlighten me what is actually a breakthrough and the importance of this processor?

Well, the architecture is different and the performance. The smartphone processor will never catch up with the desktop

[Mestny]

That the Chinese have deceived you.
People work for you - on the ruins of the Soviet empire buried by its creators. Make a new one.
So it’s not enough for you.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Mestny

So it’s not enough for you.

I asked a question, purely technical. By the way, thanks to everyone who correctly answered, I was interested and informative. Mestny does not concern.

[Egor-dis]

Quote: lis-ik

enlighten me what is actually a breakthrough and the importance of this processor?

The fact is that when the United States finally crush Faberge to Chinese manufacturers (as they do now with the Huawei), incl. and as anti-Russian sanctions, Russia will be able to switch over to 8-nuclear processes.

[Alf]

Quote: Egor-dis

The fact is that when the United States finally crush Faberge to Chinese manufacturers (as they do now with the Huawei), incl. and as anti-Russian sanctions, Russia will be able to switch over to 8-nuclear processes.

It can’t, because it will be produced in Thailand. And to slow down production in Thailand for the US nefig do. And the fact that the factory belongs to Russia America will not stop at all. They will announce an unfavorable environmental situation for local rabbits and slow down production, and laurels will once again show concern.

[Syroitel_nik]

Concern only from you. Coat of arms of the Union like camouflage? What would star-striped ears not stick out? The laurels of the great commander wedge a tower? In Russia, everything is bad. Go down to where everything is fine. Only for people like you everywhere is bad. Everywhere is to blame, even sofa makers

[Alf]

Quote: Syroitel_nik

Concern only from you. Coat of arms of the Union like camouflage? What would star-striped ears not stick out? The laurels of the great commander wedge a tower? In Russia, everything is bad. Go down to where everything is fine. Only for people like you everywhere is bad. Everywhere is to blame, even sofa makers

Before you blurt out something, it would be nice to think. But this process is not familiar to you.

[aglet]

Quote: Syroitel_nik

The laurels of the great commander wedge a tower? In Russia, everything is bad. Go down to where everything is fine. Only for people like you everywhere is bad. Everywhere is to blame, even sofa makers

no, it may not be so. but it was about a troubled laurel, or are you against it?

[Voyager]

This processor is of a higher class. Server-side Most likely imprisoned for multi-threaded work with large data arrays .. Your 10-core processor has many different cores, for example 4 + 6. Some of them are more powerful for demanding tasks, others are energy-efficient for solving the simplest algorithms and due to this, less charge is consumed. That is, in short. In general, they differ in architecture as a mountain and a knoll. But the question is that the manufacturing process at 28 nm, which is indicated, is already quite ancient ...

[lis-ik]

Quote: Voyager

This processor is of a higher class. Server-side Most likely imprisoned for multi-threaded work with large data arrays .. Your 10-core processor has many different cores, for example 4 + 6. Some of them are more powerful for demanding tasks, others are energy-efficient for solving the simplest algorithms and due to this, less charge is consumed. That is, in short. In general, they differ in architecture as a mountain and a knoll. But the question is that the manufacturing process at 28 nm, which is indicated, is already quite ancient ...

Thanks for the clarifications. Now I am slowly beginning to understand, otherwise all the characteristics used to be an empty phrase for me. Now I would also like to know what "nagdrag" is (there may be a mistake in the word).

[Voyager]

Now I would also like to know what "nagdrag" is (there may be a mistake in the word).

Honestly, for the first time I hear, let's figure it out together :)
And where and in what context did you hear about him?

[lis-ik]

Quote: Voyager

Now I would also like to know what "nagdrag" is (there may be a mistake in the word).

Honestly, for the first time I hear, let's figure it out together :)
And where and in what context did you hear about him?

This applies to mobile devices, applied on Chinese and on the latest Korean smartphones and tablets. I heard from a colleague in conversation when discussing the purchase of a smartphone, as I understand it, that if we switch to automotive topics, it’s like a turbine. (I can be wrong again). Sorry that I did not immediately unsubscribe, I have alerts for some reason only on the tablet.

[aglet]

Quote: Voyager

This processor is of a higher class. Server-side Most likely imprisoned for multithreaded work with large data arrays ..

to whom do you explain this? who knows, he already knows, and who does not know, he will never know that you don’t tell him

[aglet]

Quote: lis-ik

I am far from computer hardware, enlighten me what is actually a breakthrough and the importance of this processor?

nothing at all. the only thing done is that his classmate was developed back in 2000, two years ago, was discontinued. I do not mean an exact copy, their architecture with Intel is a bit different, I mean performance. and so, made in Taiwan, works under Windows

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: lis-ik

What is the breakthrough and importance of this processor?

There will be no imported cockroaches. If our OTC in China does not swell.

[stopudov]

We did it! Master the technology! This is the most important thing!

[Nehist]

Enlighten !!! Not with anything!!! Obsolete bullshit of not having analogues)))

[vasiliysxx]

Enlightener! Let me correct you: not having a tax

[goose]

Quote: lis-ik

I now have a 10-core processor on a Chinese tablet. I am far from computer hardware, enlighten me what is actually a breakthrough and the importance of this processor?

The presented processor is a server one, for industrial operation, this is what a serious business is built on and what makes the most profit.
Not for tablets, one core of such a processor is cooler than all 10 cores of a tablet processor.
Another thing is that without software - OSes, databases, and the rest, no processors cost anything, they are considered as one.

[Non liberoid Russian]

I wonder why the server percent for home PC? all the more with the lack of instructions needed for games and office software? they will order production in Taiwan or Malaysia in the right quantity with the proper supply for special needs and that's enough, it’s still an order of magnitude cheaper than building a plant and buying a line ... there one clean room costs like a small town’s budget

[Mestny]

And who needs a home PC?
In addition to home PCs, there is a sea of ​​various applications.

[BeloMor]

How much will it cost for the population?

Yes, there’s nothing in view of the miserable series, development costs, production line costs,

[Barbarian375]

Quote: Pereira

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

In the 90s in Russia, first of all, the industry of group "A" was destroyed, namely "production of means of production". And factories for the production of microelectronics, and factories for the production of equipment for such plants - in the first place. Design bureaus on this subject were destroyed. Now the supply of such equipment to Russia is under strict restrictions, and some positions are completely banned, as well as the transfer of technology on this topic is completely banned. You can develop the best microprocessors as much as you like, but when there is nothing to produce them on a mass scale ... Now such production is slowly being restored, but this is a long process, especially the restoration of the development and production of equipment for these plants.

[atalef]

Quote: Pereira

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series?
Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores?

back to the article

"Processor-9" is developed on 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm),

intel

Officially about Westnre Intel 32-nm processors
12.02.2009 [10: 00], Ruslan Tsap
As we previously reported, Intel already launched this year the 32-nm processors of the Westmere generation, which will inherit most of what was successfully implemented in the 45-nm architecture of Nehalem.

What is the lag in processors on 10 years?

Intel: PC based 10-nm processors will go on sale at the end of 2019 year

comments are superfluous - as you understand

[Herman 4223]

Of course, I’m not a strong processor specialist, but the Apple makes processors with 7nm process technology, and Samsung seems to be 8, Intel 14nm. 28nm processor in my phone may be good, but computers and phones on such a processor will be a bit not competitive.

[Shahno]

Well, yes.
"Intel Corp plans to invest $ 5 billion to expand production at its Kiryat Gat plant in southern Israel, Israeli Economy Minister Eli Cohen said on Wednesday after talks with the US chipmaker.

Intel, would start expanding the plant this year and work would be completed in 2020, the minister said in a statement .. The US semiconductor firm has said it planned to upgrade the facility to 10-nanometer technology from 22-nanometer, making chips that are smaller and faster. "
Sorry in the original. I think there is Google .. Last year’s statement, modernization and translation is already in full swing.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Herman 4223

28 nm may be good, but computers and phones on such a processor will be slightly competitive.

It is not done for phones at all. Yes, and not for the population but for highly specialized machines

[Vasiliev Yu]

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

They wrote:
In the Ministry of Industry and Trade believebased on the Russian ”Processor-9” can create personal computers, high-performance workstations, servers for various purposes with a capacity of up to 2 TFlops, in various data centers and supercomputers of petaflop performance.
And you can not create.
The main thing is to report that under laboratory conditions we almost caught up with the West, and the East with China and Japan, and further, even though the grass does not grow.

[Vasiliev Yu]

About supercomputers:
https://habr.com/ru/company/ua-hosting/blog/244593/
https://nvworld.ru/news/china-on-top-supercomputer/
One link is 2014, the other is for 2017.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Vasilyev u

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

They wrote:
In the Ministry of Industry and Trade believebased on the Russian ”Processor-9” can create personal computers, high-performance workstations, servers for various purposes with a capacity of up to 2 TFlops, in various data centers and supercomputers of petaflop performance.
And you can not create.
The main thing is to report that under laboratory conditions we almost caught up with the West, and the East with China and Japan, and further, even though the grass does not grow.

You are mistaken. Apply FORCED warrior, the highest echelons of state power, the management of super important technological industries. For example, nuclear power plants.
In order to exclude the slightest possibility of bookmarks. It will not go on sale due to the space price.

[Vasiliev Yu]

You are mistaken. Apply FORCED warrior, the highest echelons of state power, the management of super important technological industries.

Yes, I would only be glad. But how many victorious reports we had on different occasions, but in reality what usually happens?
Again: before we MAKE the warriors use them, we need to MAKE our government to be interested in this, MAKE it to build a plant for the production of these processors, and then MAKE it to build factories so that these processors go into business, not into one product, but into many, this is how many factories should be FORCED then to do? And most importantly: How many products does the processor need to be 'ground in' so that there are no failures, how long will it take to check and test? And then everything else?
They have been bragging about Elbrus for several years, but in reality, how? So everything remains at the level of boasting.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: vasiliev yu

this is how many factories do you have to make then do?

There is only one assembly, one for the system screw and one for the actual production of processors.

[Vasiliev Yu]

There is only one assembly, one for the system screw and one for the actual production of processors.

Perhaps you are right. Well, if so.

[Vkd dvk]

And here you are again mistaken.
I am convinced that they WANT to do something good there so that they cease to be cursed by the whole country. But production and sales networks have long been sitting on import drugs. COMPETE AT THE PRICE. Here is what you need. But for this you need MASS production. It turns out as in the old saying, he sat down, stepped on the floor coat and can’t get up.
Tell me, who can compete in the conditions of state monopoly production? Private trader? Or is the state itself? Yes, with such an idiotic tax system, when for a profit of 400% nothing happens to anyone? Where is the fair progressive scale that makes the rich pay for the poor? When to abolish predatory VAT taxes? When a simple product is increased in price by 20% once (bread, for example), and a tractor by a factor of XNUMX, since the chain of manufacture and multiple assembly of a small unit into a larger one sequentially rises in price at each stage, which in total gives the price of a Russian COMPLEX robber product? Isn’t this why the Russian glands are not competitive and are WE FORCED to take someone else's?

Want a little. DO IT NEEDED.
The temporary worker does not need this. For him, the main thing is to sit quietly and WANT, but do nothing.

[Vasiliev Yu]

I am convinced that they WANT to do something good there so that they cease to be cursed by the whole country.

What they want is what they do. Not for that, these rats were eager for power and a feeder in order to think about the people and the country.
Also a good idea was Rusnano. Try to convince that the red cockroach also wants to do something good. Skolkovo was still a good idea. But all this remained with ideas, although billions were swollen in these ideas.

[ccsr]

Quote: Vkd dvk

Apply FORCED warrior, the highest echelons of state power, the management of super important technological industries. For example, nuclear power plants.
In order to exclude the slightest possibility of bookmarks.

This is the main reason for this development.

Quote: Vkd dvk

It will not go on sale due to the space price.

The price will immediately begin to fall as soon as we enter the production of millions of units, which is acceptable even for our domestic market.

[Vkd dvk]

Billion transyuk manually inserted into the crystal? Like a joke, it’s good.

[sdc_alex]

Quote: Pereira

Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?

I think for the population it will never be sold at all. Or it will cost well oooooochen expensive.
It makes sense to use such a process only in very specialized applications ..... In order to interrupt Intellovsky and AMD at a price, they will have to organize too much series. And I don’t see much point in fighting for this market ....

[kig]

Quote: Pereira

manual assembly sample

[kutuz]

They were late, if it is comparable with Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 then it is already outdated, and if we take into account that a couple of years will pass before mass production (this is the minimum), it means 621 million rubles were wasted. Moreover, the truth is written in the article. Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 is assembled using 22 nm technology and not 32 nm as the author claims and the frequency is 1900 MHz, so even this processor is far from it.

[smart ass]

Have you developed a motherboard for it and memory?

[AUL]

The only question is - where are they planning to release them? in China?

[Vadim237]

At Baikal Electronics - in Taiwan. It is not profitable to build a plant at home, as it will not pay off.

[SHURUM -BURUM]

It is not profitable to build a plant at home, since it will not pay off.
Do military airfields pay off? The question itself is simply irrelevant. Isn't it possible to build a silicon factory in the order of the state defense order and drive silicon powder with a true acceptance "5" on it?

[venik]

Quote: SHURUM-BURUM

Isn't it possible to build a silicon factory in the order of the state defense order and drive silicon loose with a true acceptance of "5" on it?

=========
And where do you get machines and devices ??? There - a whole bunch of import equipment is needed, which is now "under sanctions" !! And what to do ???
And as for the "silicon factories" - there were several of them in the Soviet Union, and to achieve high quality ingots - ALWAYS !!! For especially "critical products" - ingots were purchased abroad (in the states, Japan, France, Italy) .....
Himself once had to research samples from different factories and compare with imported ones. So ours - ooh !! Neither in terms of chemical purity, nor in terms of structural perfection - "they did not climb into any gate" !!!
A friend told me that at their factory for the production of microcircuits in Kiev (I don’t remember what was called), somewhere in the late 70s, they installed a Japanese line for rejecting logic microcircuits (bought for unmeasured grandmothers, in some roundabout way - through the third or fourth countries!). So she worked for them for exactly a month, then she was dismantled and thrown out into the yard (where she safely and rotted!). To the question: "Why?" - replied: "So she rejected 100%, but we somehow had to fulfill the plan ..."
---------------
No, of course take care creation of own capacities just NECESSARY (and it was high time). But the only question is this - not easy, not fast and not at all CHEAP !!! Since you will not have to create a "factory", but in fact a whole INDUSTRY !!!

[Syroitel_nik]

Quote: venik

A friend told me that at their factory for the production of microcircuits in Kiev (I don’t remember what was called), somewhere in the late 70s, they installed a Japanese line for rejecting logic microcircuits (bought for unmeasured grandmothers, in some roundabout way - through the third or fourth countries!). So she worked for them for exactly a month, then she was dismantled and thrown out into the yard (where she safely and rotted!). To the question: "Why?" - replied: "So she rejected 100%, but we somehow had to fulfill the plan ..."

I also heard about this bike, about the abandoned equipment, only about the bearing plant. And did they really know how to do something good in the Union. Ovs always had the best, is and will be. Could only the mattresses having gone through the RUSSIAN 90s stay afloat? And we Passed and Go ahead. By the way, some also thought that Hitler would dump Russia. But no. Fuck you

[maximum 8]

I don’t understand what it means to be unprofitable? Is it unprofitable for Russia to be self-sufficient in such a sensitive issue as processors and its own element base? And if sanctions and this channel are closed then what? It is unprofitable for Russia to keep some managers in power who consider that their factories and jobs are unprofitable, and they spend a lot of money on all sorts of Courchevel and other nonsense.

[tranquil]

Quote: maximum 8

I do not understand what it means to be unprofitable?

Exactly, you don’t understand. Unfortunately, this is the way the modern economy works, we have no other. If you have any better ideas, go ahead, I’m sure if you are waiting for a Nobel Prize, then at least the position of a top manager in major corporations.

[AllXVahhaB]

What does it have to do with it, modern economy, etc. with GOZ?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: tranquil

Exactly, you don’t understand. Unfortunately, this is the way the modern economy works., we have no other.

This is how the modern Russian economy works. We had another.

Quote: tranquil

If you have any better ideas - go ahead, I’m sure if you are waiting for a Nobel Prize, then at least the position of a top manager

Here are the sayings of the Nobel laureate:
culture: But the competition ended before the collapse of the Soviet Union?
Alferov: Nothing like this! It ended when we liquidated our industry, destroyed the top ten defense industrial enterprises, which produced 60 percent of high-tech civilian products. There are people who are positive about Yeltsin - I do not understand this! Today we say: Crimea was returned - yes, an achievement. And man gave half of the country, half! I still wonder how the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR in the 90th year could vote for the sovereignty of the RSFSR from the Soviet Union! Out of almost a thousand deputies, only 13 opposed. Who needs to be to take and vote for the fact that we do not need the Soviet Union: they say, we feed the republics. How do we feed them? How can one live without Ukraine, without Belarus, without Kazakhstan? Yes, half of Sredmash was in Kazakhstan. Unique gold mining - in Uzbekistan. What is the most powerful industry in Ukraine: Yuzhmash, agriculture. Only Belarus, thanks to Lukashenko, was able to revive its technological base.
And we took and eliminated our industry, high-tech industries, threw it into privatization. We really determined - James Hekman was right - the scientific and technological progress of the whole world, we made LEDs, semiconductor lasers, microwave transistors before all, we already had pilot production. He was taken and destroyed in the early 90's, defeating the entire electronic industry of the Soviet Union.

culture: Did we just copy something?
Alferov: Yes, Zelenograd practically did not have a single patent, but simply copied silicon chips. But in the field of silicon microelectronics, doing copying, we were at the same level as the West. In Minsk, the Planar enterprise was engaged in creating equipment, steppers, which transferred the image of the integrated circuit to a silicon wafer. What was Planar company like? Clean rooms at a depth of eight meters underground to unleash from the subway, trams. The steppers were produced by three countries - the USSR, the USA and the Netherlands, they determined the technological level of silicon microelectronics, and while Planar worked for us, we were on the same level.
The mistake was that there was too much military flux: we often did not understand that microelectronics, and later nanoelectronics, was the engine for the development of industrial technologies. But our electronic industry - three million people, three thousand enterprises, 400 KB and institutions in all 15 republics. And today she has remained in Belarus and in Russia, and in our country - 20% of what was in the Soviet era, in all other republics there is simply nothing more, it needs to be recreated again.

culture: Recreate from what point? How bad is it?
Alferov: Our branch science practically perished (with the exception of military science) during the liquidation of industry. Vuzovskaya, too, since she lived at the expense of economic agreements with enterprises, something was preserved at the Academy of Sciences, with losses, but still. The new law of the Russian Academy of Sciences turned into a club of scientists, so we dealt an almost fatal blow to academic science. I want to say the following: it is absolutely impossible to revive science in Russia by decrees, programs, projects. There is one way: to raise industry. Science can develop only under one condition - when it is needed. And it is needed in the presence of a powerful, high-tech industry. And if we revive it, we will revive science too.

[Shahno]

I completely agree with Jaurès Israel is confirmed in miniature. This is about the electronics industry

[Captain45]

Quote: ROSS 42

Here are the sayings of the Nobel laureate:

Quote: ROSS 42

Alferov

Kingdom of heaven, the smartest uncle has left!

[Zaits]

Quote: ROSS 42

...
This is how the modern Russian economy works. We had another.
...
Here are the sayings of the Nobel laureate:
... We really determined - James Hekman was right - the scientific and technological progress of the whole world, we made LEDs, semiconductor lasers, microwave transistors before all ....

.... Yes, Zelenograd practically did not have a single patent, but simply copied silicon chips. But in the field of silicon microelectronics, doing copying, we were at the same level as the West ....

Well, yes, the other. But far from the same as Alferov described it.
With all due respect to Alferov, it is difficult to overestimate his contribution to modern electronics, especially to optoelectronics, and not to notice his cunning in relation to some things. If you are familiar with these things not by hearsay, of course.

With silicon electronics in the USSR it was relatively bad. To copy, of course, they copied it, only many microcircuits were mainly on paper. Those that are relatively modern were produced in microscopic batches only for the military. And this is only at best, with wild costs. The only universal microprocessor mastered for mass production was the i8080. A number of i8086 clones were still produced, but by the time they appeared, it was already easier, cheaper and more reliable to put the original. If the company had access to currency, essno, otherwise it would be possible not to rush about.
But the saddest thing is that many of the most advanced developments in optoelectronics and microwave, which Alferov mentioned, were stupidly stolen and sold for pennies to the same bourgeois by the same party members who had successfully transformed into capitalists. And the current traditions in the Russian economy are drawn from there.
But there are some positive shifts. You can scold the "Elbrus" as much as you like, but they are really your own, not copied, and will do for a lot.

[Beby]

Quote: maximum 8

I do not understand what it means to be unprofitable?

And this means that: such a plant is supported only by a few highly qualified specialists (usually up to 10 people). Without these specialists, the plant very quickly becomes a bunch of dead equipment that is becoming unusable at a fantastic speed, around which dozens (hundreds) of ordinary workers go around, and I don’t understand: what happened to the equipment? And also: what now to do with all this ???
So that high-class specialists do not run away to another job (a plant, including abroad), they need to pay very well and create good working conditions, but this is exactly what our "managers" think "disadvantageous". Most of the" managers "simply do not understand: how to pay employees in the Russian Federation good salary? And what, then, in your (and relatives) "managery" pocket to shove ??!

In particular, it becomes unclear why to pay a high salary if the plant is idle at 70% - 80%.

[Mestny]

I wonder where the "managers" came from?
Really flew from another star system?

[Beby]

Well, if you do not know, then so be it, I will explain.
Most of these defective "managers" are the direct heirs of the Soviet ruling elite, and there is also a small percentage of convenient businessmen who joined the first in time.
Naturally, the main (and in most cases single) the task of these people is personal enrichment by any means. Which, in connection with impunity, leads to disastrous consequences for the state defense order and the Military Industrial Complex.
PS The minus is not mine - I do not put negative assessments for opponents under discussion: it is always interesting to see the attitude of the local society, which I have not clouded.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Beby

It is always interesting to see the attitude of the local society, which I have not clouded.

Like butterflies. Baby, and in your head exactly your thoughts?

[ccsr]

Quote: Beby

Most of these defective "managers" are direct heirs of the Soviet ruling elite,

Are the Arashukovs or Gaers direct heirs of the ruling elite of the USSR?
Take the trouble to name at least a dozen modern oligarchs or top-level top managers, whose parents would hold the position from secretary of the regional committee to the ministerial chair in the USSR so that your allegations are considered true, not false.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

Take the trouble to name at least a dozen modern oligarchs or top-level top managers, whose parents would hold the position from secretary of the regional committee to the ministerial chair in the USSR,

I do not want to poke around in the network for a long time, but, offhand, Rogozin, Shoigu

[ccsr]

Quote: Mestny

I wonder where the "managers" came from?
Really flew from another star system?

No, we raised them ourselves in modern Russia - they just quickly learned the principle “Money is everything,” and therefore they don’t bother much about the benefits they personally bring to the country.
This is the worst thing for the future of Russia, and by the way, this was not in the USSR, however some would blame the past here.

[Vadim237]

For commercial products is not profitable, for military - the whole budget will pay.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vadim237

Not profitable for commercial products

Why it is profitable in Germany, the USA and China, but not ours.

[Vadim237]

Watch the video below.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vadim237

Watch the video below.

And what, in the countries I have mentioned there are no such difficulties? By your logic, you do not need to build your own house, because there is a hotel.

[Vadim237]

For military and government agencies will produce domestically, for commercial use, in Taiwan. But these countries have no problems with this - since their sales market is quite large, to recoup the costs of manufacturing microprocessors and make a profit. Our microprocessors are no match for them, both in price and in the technical process - thanks to the USSR, which hardly developed this area.

[Vadim237]

The answer about microprocessor manufacturing is here

[cniza]

The Ministry of Industry and Trade believes that on the basis of the Russian "Processor-9" it is possible to create personal computers, high-performance workstations, servers for various purposes with a capacity of up to 2 TFlops, in various data centers and petaflop supercomputers

From the concept of can and is created how much more time will pass?

[Mestny]

For people like you - infinity.
Because no matter how hard you try in Russia to produce something new (and it really turns out) - you ALWAYS have a reason to say that all this is untrue, bad and not so arranged, expensive, and long outdated.

[cniza]

Sorry, but you are confusing me with someone ...

[Dude]

Without their own production facilities, this is all half measures

[tranquil]

Better than nothing at all.

[Dude]

Quote: tranquil

Better than nothing at all.

And it is necessary that it was not "better this way", but "the way it should be"!

[Mestny]

So how should it be?
Your beloved USSR, in contrast to the invented one, also turns out to be far behind in the production of electronic components. About 10 years in the 60s. And then the lag only increased.
But right now people like you for some reason categorically demand to catch up and overtake. Otherwise - "putinuhodi".
Your will - but it is clear to rational people that everything happens for the sake of the latter. At any cost.

[Dude]

So how should it be?

In my opinion, the answer lies on the surface - to engage not only in the development of our own elemental base, but also in the construction of production facilities

Why did you drag Putin, the USSR and the 60s, I won’t understand ...

[aglet]

Quote: Mestny

Your beloved USSR, in contrast to the invented one, also turns out to be far behind in the production of electronic components. About 10 years in the 60s. And then the lag only increased.
But right now, people like you for some reason categorically demand to catch up and overtake.

The USSR in the 80s produced computers and laptops a little worse than in the West at that time, just the bourgeoisie, who seized power in the 90s, returned everything to the Stone Age, and did not provide an opportunity for development. Russia does not produce anything now, and even this Elbrus will be made (if any) in Taiwan

[Mestny]

Oh really?
And where were they? I have not seen a single one in the stores.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Mestny

Oh really?
And where were they?

Well, I had one. Spectrum. Yes, a Spectrum clone, though ...

Quote: Mestny

The difference in technology is monstrous, not at all in favor of the USSR.

Not in favor, but not monstrous. If you compare with today, today we are in general - zero full in household appliances.

[aglet]

Quote: Mestny

Oh really?
And where were they? I have not seen a single one in the stores.

all space and military on their computers were

[aglet]

Quote: Mestny

Oh really?
And where were they? I haven’t seen any in the stores

I saw and even bought

[Vadim237]

"Russia is not producing anything now." You do not produce anything - but we do it, ranging from pins, ending with nuclear reactors and jet engines, in microelectronics, starting from silicon, silicon substrates, ending with cores for processors and the processors themselves and complex integrated circuits, - a private company "Multiclet" , the rest of the triodes, diodes, transistors, single crystals and other elements are produced by the concern "Roselectronics".

[aglet]

Quote: Vadim237

"Russia is not producing anything now." You do not produce anything - but we do it, ranging from pins, ending with nuclear reactors and jet engines, in microelectronics, starting from silicon, silicon substrates, ending with cores for processors and the processors themselves and complex integrated circuits, - a private company "Multiclet" , the rest of the triodes, diodes, transistors, single crystals and other elements are produced by the concern "Roselectronics".

Well, then, where is it all — from silicon, silicon substrates, ending with cores for processors and processors themselves and complex integrated circuits, triodes, diodes, transistors, single crystals and other elements — where does the finished product in which all this is? computers, televisions, audio, home processors, industrial? where are they used in scanty amounts, in some non-core areas? where does it all go?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Mestny

Years at about 10 in 60 years. And then the lag only increased.

What the heck? How far do we lag behind them, say in the 90?

[Mestny]

It is easy to see.
It is enough to open the lid of any household appliance of the early 90s - from the USSR, and say American or German.
The difference in technology is monstrous, not at all in favor of the USSR.

[region58]

Quote: Mestny

The difference in technology is monstrous

Well, about the "monstrosity" is you like that ... got excited. Another thing is that just in the early to mid-nineties, most factories producing household appliances came to a kirdyk, and accordingly they did not produce anything new.

[Vadim237]

The USSR adopted a program in the 60s for copying foreign computers - the last was Elbrus 3.

[aglet]

Quote: Vadim237

USSR adopted a program in the 60s to copy foreign computers

may have copied, but they were, of their own production

[Gardamir]

Shaw again ?!
You at least once inform that you started to release and much has been done. In the meantime, chamomile will be - will not be.

[silverwolf88]

it’s good that this topic is developing ... there is no other way ... for further development we need processors ... servers on our processors ... software and stuff to ensure the development of automation and IT technologies ...

[igorka357]

Yes, stop it, dear ones, the whole world has been using cheap labor for a long time! If there is a factory in Taiwan, it’s easier to buy there, it’s easier to hire workers and produce the product there, than to build and set up production yourself! The product will still be Russian, for quality can be monitored from Russia, that would not work like a Toyota assembled in the Russian Federation, which begins to crumble in a year!

[mark1]

Quote: igorka357

If the plant is in Taiwan, it is easier to buy there, it is easier to hire workers and manufacture the product there, than to build and establish production at home!

Yes, yes - you have to live easier and look at life broader ...

[IL-18]

A friend of mine bought a new RAV4 last year. Now, looking for a replacement for the same brand, but "with a spare wheel on the trunk." I thought he was crazy in his sixties. And here's what:

Quote: igorka357

as with Toyota collected in the Russian Federation, which begins to crumble in a year!

[Mestny]

I forgot to write about pensions.

[Roma 1977]

That's the same thing about the "Superjets" thought before. But it turned out that they cannot be sold to Iran, because the Americans banned ...

[Dude]

! If there is a factory in Taiwan, it is easier to buy there, it is easier to hire workers and manufacture the product there, than to build and establish production at home!

Yeah, have already passed - for example, with Ukrainian aircraft and ship engines.
Stupid position that you so defend.

[igorka357]

I do not defend it at all, but simply give reasons! We have not the same economy now, that would pour huge funds into the beginning of production from scratch, with which the market is crammed to capacity! Where will you order money to be taken into production ... then people howl from the rise Retirement age! Just don't need me here to write stuffy nonsense like "take away from the oligarchs" it's not even funny!

[AllXVahhaB]

And what about jobs? Did you see what Detroit turned into? Do you want this for us? Moreover, the product is not for the market, at which I doubt that labor is cheaper in Taiwan than anywhere else in the Kirov region ...

[igorka357]

Ooh, believe me, a Russian peasant is very demanding, it is advisable that Putin would bring him two hundred thousand each month ..

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: igorka357

Ooh, believe me, a Russian peasant is very demanding, it is advisable that Putin would bring him two hundred thousand each month ..

There are different, there are for 20 thousand a month they work and work hard, you travel around the country ...
Well, if you don't like Russian peasants, take Russian grannies for the production of processors, these will stretch everything! Practically for nothing - in the city of Chaikovsky, Perm Territory, at a textile mill, a salary of 15 thousand is considered "decent"

[igorka357]

Detroit is a town of local significance, and there is zero acre of an automobile plant! Here is an example for me, I live in Ust-Ilimsk, in principle we have hydropower plants and timber processing plants, if they close the hydroelectric plants, we will work at the timber processing complex .. but if we close the timber processing complex , then at hydroelectric power stations, even five hundred, for a city of 90 thousand! So if the timber industry dies, the city of Khan, this is an axiom when the city-forming enterprise ends its life, then as a rule its brainchild .. that is, the city, too What does your example have to do with it? We don’t seem to be going to close the processor manufacturing plant, we are talking about starting production completely from scratch is very expensive for the country, and we are under siege now! We have not fifteen republics now!

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: igorka357

Detroit is a town of local significance, and there is zero acre of an automobile plant! Here is an example for me, I live in Ust-Ilimsk, in principle we have hydropower plants and timber processing plants, if they close the hydroelectric plants, we will work at the timber processing complex .. but if we close the timber processing complex , then at hydroelectric power stations, even five hundred, for a city of 90 thousand! So if the timber industry dies, the city of Khan, this is an axiom when the city-forming enterprise ends its life, then as a rule its brainchild .. that is, the city, too dies!

Quote: igorka357

What does your example have to do with it?

So I don’t understand - what does your opus about Ust-Ilimsk have to do with my opinion that plants should be built in Russia?

Quote: igorka357

We are not going to close the processor plant

Do we have it?

Quote: igorka357

we are talking about starting production completely from scratch, which is very costly for the country,

And the World Cup is not expensive for the country? In a state of siege? In Yekaterinburg, the Central Stadium was rebuilt twice in a row! 40 thousand seats were taken back, although even when he was 15 more than a third did not fill up. My company only for geology (one drilling, 10 wells) received 16 million rubles. And how much the whole Arena costs, I don’t even know ... Speak out ... Speak in siege ...

Quote: igorka357

and now we are under siege!

And when was it different? Give an example from History.

Quote: igorka357

Now we have not fifteen republics!

We now have 85 regions, so what? Peter the first also did not have 15 republics, and Catherine, I generally keep quiet about Ivan IV ...

[AUL]

Quote: igorka357

If the plant is in Taiwan, it is easier to buy there, it is easier to hire workers and manufacture the product there, than to build and establish production at home!

Well, yes, only in a peaceful, quiet time. They are processors for us, and we will sit on the pipe. Well, how will Taiwan announce sanctions to us?
Unprofitable, speak? So it’s also unprofitable to maintain an army - it costs a lot of money, and people fall out of the economy. But you have to, where are you going!

[igorka357]

There is a need to contain the army, without which there is no way .. we still have such an economy that you can do it! I don’t see the point of pouring enormous money into the production of what the market is packed to capacity!

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: igorka357

An army is a necessity, without which there is no way.

What for? Let’s introduce the peacekeeping contingent and NATO forces with police functions, and dismiss our own. Here we save that !!!

Quote: igorka357

I see no reason to pour enormous granny into the production of what the market is packed to capacity!

The market is filled to capacity with absolutely everything! From smartphones to tanks, so what? Let's not do anything at all?

[igorka357]

But I didn’t understand something. Are you going to fight with China?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: igorka357

But I didn’t understand something. Are you going to fight with China?

Do you completely exclude this probability? Are you ready to put your family’s heads on the line?

Quote: igorka357

Yes, with a cup of rice, don’t you agree? They don’t require a big salary there,

They have long wages higher than ours. Take an interest in leisure.

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: Ingvar 72

They have long wages higher than ours. Take an interest in leisure.

Leave, the person does not know what Taiwan is. He thinks this is such a city in the center of China, where the Chinese are sitting in a barrack, in which - he fell asleep a glass of rice, poured a liter of water and they spank processors with iPhones around the clock ...

[AllXVahhaB]

Quote: igorka357

But I didn’t understand something. Are you going to fight with China?

So you don’t know the difference between China and Taiwan?
And here I am beads to the sword ... Everything merges ...

[rayruav]

yes of course for our government managers it’s certainly easier, temporary workers what to take from them

[Mestny]

Well, you understand that — a strategist-statesman of the highest level.

[igorka357]

Most likely little is known about the word economics, and generally about economics!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: igorka357

If the plant is in Taiwan, it is easier to buy there, it is easier to hire workers and manufacture the product there, than to build and establish production at home!

And most importantly, feed Taiwanese workers, right?

[Mestny]

The most important thing is to produce your plan.
Whom you will feed there, or you will not feed at all, is completely unimportant.
If it is necessary to feed from the belly for the conceived, this is what should be done.
If for flights Mask to the ISS, copulation of gays at the workplace is necessary - the way it will be.
This is capitalism. What ours cannot understand in any way.
There are no dogmas and postulates.
Because there are no goals. In turn, because there is no understanding of capitalism - why it is, how it turned out.
Like savages with a jacket - dressed, and you are already civilized. The main thing is not to shoot. Where it came from, this jacket, what it is made of is completely irrelevant. The main thing is that while you wear it, you are civilized.
He has already burned out by the fire, stinks of the blood of dead game, and the flesh of enemies. But the owner of such a jacket is genuinely perplexed - why are they not considered civilized by those who exchanged this jacket for him made on the knee of the values ​​of his primitive tribe.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mestny

The most important thing is to produce your plan.
Whom you will feed there, or you will not feed at all, is completely unimportant.

Then why all this, if anyway whom to feed? Why do we need our own people if the Chinese and Taiwanese do cheaper and faster?

Quote: Mestny

The main thing is that while you wear it, you are civilized.

Yes, but I thought that a civilized person is in his head, and not in clothes.

[Mestny]

In this case, the jacket is a convention. Anything can be such a "jacket".
Well, about "my people".
Global capitalism does not have such a people. At least among the lower layers.
There was an attempt to do it differently (USSR), but it failed for at least 100 years.
So welcome to the real world.

[igorka357]

Well, here’s an example, dear, I’m sure I won’t wait for an answer! There are two workers, one Russian, the other let's say .. Tajik, both masons, both good, both conscientious! And so .. Russian for laying the stove requires 50 thousand rubles, and three meals a day, and not anyhow, but the first second, and compote, so to speak! But a Tajik requires ten thousand, and a couple of packs of Doshirak a day .. Well, listen dear, if you now say that you will give work to the Russian out of love for his people , I won’t even laugh! Another example .. you want to build a summer house, it will cost you a million, plus hiring workers, and next to it there is such a summer house, and its price is 800 thousand. I don’t think that you will start building a summer house only from -for the love of the workers, and because they also need to be fed!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: igorka357

Russian for laying the stove requires 50 thousand rubles, and three meals a day and no matter how, but the first second, and compote, so to speak! But the Tajik requires ten thousand, and a couple of packs of Doshirak a day ..

Well, and what do you think, is the situation normal? Tajik does not pay taxes, his family lives in a completely different price zone. And his work is less high-quality than that of a Russian. And the government is guilty, which does not solve the emigration problem normally.
This I answered you according to your model. But now in reality it’s different. Tajiks are now taking for work no less than Russians. I work in construction, I know.
Next - your model is not entirely correct, because it is associated with a one-time service, and not with production.

[igorka357]

Yes, a cup of rice, don’t you agree? They don’t require a big salary there, unlike our programmers, who for some reason decided that they are such a specialist that they must earn millions ..

[Pilat2009]

Quote: igorka357

If the plant is in Taiwan, it’s easier to buy there, it’s easier to hire workers and manufacture the product there, than to build and establish production at home

Only then don’t cry when you are stuffed with bookmark chips

[igorka357]

Well, if our engineers and programmers, for the most part, those same hackers who break the FBI servers, cannot find a bookmark on their software, then the price is worthless! Is there such a thing as quality control, does it tell you anything?

[Altona]

Quote: igorka357

Yes, stop, dear ones, the whole world has long been using cheap labor!

--------------------------
How does cheap labor affect processor manufacturing? Explain to me! And there is no cheap labor force in these areas, they pay decent wages. Vietnam and Cambodia will soon pass the stage of "cheap labor" if they take on a more serious product than sewing.

[aglet]

Quote: igorka357

The product will still be Russian

Tomorrow Toyota, offended by the Kuril Islands, will stop bringing assembly cars to Russia. we’ll manage without Toyota, but there will be no processors if Taiwan takes offense, or who else

[igorka357]

Hey-hey-hey .. you will, of course, if you have been driving "jiguars" all your life before! I won't even sit on a new fucking bucket called "vestacross" from my 2003 Atenza, better on foot, I'll keep my health! two examples of my friends who have suffered so much in a year and a half ..))), And the Koreans are at the proper level, the Germans are at an extreme level, and even the Chinese are already making normal machines! There are both Japanese and amerskih factories steamer, and French and Korean ... and do not cry .. this is the economy and business!

[aglet]

Quote: igorka357

With my Atenza of 2003 I won't even sit on a new fucking bucket called "Vestacross"

the stump is clear, don’t sit down, you don’t have money, if you ride on a 16-year-old bucket and don’t boast, convincing yourself and others that this is the best choice in your life

Quote: igorka357

And I didn’t understand something, are only Chinese processors manufactured in Taiwan?

All Chinese processors, in the sense, are made in China. And so they are either Intel, or AMD, there is still little MS. and, if possible, about French factories in Taiwan that produce French processors, more in detail

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: igorka357

After all, the product will still be Russian, quality can be monitored from Russia as well, which would not work like with a Toyota assembled in the Russian Federation, which begins to crumble in a year!

Your crazy.

[keeper03]

About Toyota from personal experience or just to throw dust in your eyes!?

[igorka357]

About Toyota assembled in the Russian Federation, I’m talking from personal experience, since I have two Mazda Atenza cars in 2003, and a one-year-old Camry assembled in St. Petersburg, so ... even the premium camryuha does not stop her from showing the Russian assembly ..

[aglet]

Quote: igorka357

even the premium camryuha does not stop her from showing the Russian assembly ..

But how does she show it? Maybe the hands do not grow from there?

[ccsr]

Quote: igorka357

that would not work like a Toyota assembled in the Russian Federation, which begins to crumble in a year!

This is a lie - I drove our Camry for four years, so even my bulb did not burn out.

[igorka357]

Yeah ... you probably understand the cars! The bulb didn’t burn out, and how many times I did the suspension, and checked the clearances ..? Although apparently you don’t even understand where to check the clearances in order to establish the build quality!

[aglet]

Quote: igorka357

Although apparently you don’t even understand where to check the gaps in order to establish the build quality!

why check them if the car does not break down and drives?

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

why check them if the car does not break down and drives?

He wanted to show his cleverness. And since he has never been serviced at authorized services in his life, he does not know that they not only present a card of the work performed, but also give a printed diagnosis of the entire machine, so that any smart person himself can understand what is happening to his car. In general, such dense "specialists" with arguments about clearances are becoming less and less, and this pleases, which means that people are beginning to understand that only professionals can serve a modern car with high quality.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

He wanted to show his intelligence. And since it has never been serviced by authorized services in its life

Imagine, I’ve never been serviced, and in order to understand that I don’t need paper printed on the machine, I don’t know why. I did all the work on the car myself, now it’s old, I’m doing it in different workshops and I can’t understand why changing the oil and I have to filters in special services, for completely inadequate money. although I can guess, the car you have on credit, the TCP at the bank, the bank requires servicing in a certain service associated with the bank. Something like this.
a modern car differs from a non-modern one only by the presence of a bunch of unnecessary gadgets, overdeveloped electronics, low reliability and reduced durability

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

I did all the work on the car myself,

I, too, did all the work on the Lada of different models myself. So what?

Quote: aglet

and I can’t understand why I should change oil and filters in a special service, for completely inadequate money.

Because the car is under warranty, and any repair outside the authorized service is automatically a reason for refusing warranty service. Where do you get your "knowledge" from?

Quote: aglet

although I can guess, the car you have on credit, the TCP at the bank, the bank requires servicing in a certain service associated with the bank. Something like this.

Past the cash register - I never took loans at all, because. not stupid enough to overpay a can for a new car.

Quote: aglet

a modern car differs from a non-modern one only by the presence of a bunch of unnecessary gadgets, overdeveloped electronics, low reliability and reduced durability

I don’t give a damn about it - I buy what my budget allows, especially since I use the trade-in, and don’t bother with what is in the car, but choose the package that I think I need.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

Because the machine is under warranty, and any repair outside an authorized service is automatically a reason for refusing warranty service

here the main words are the refusal of warranty service, what are you all afraid of, sacredly believing in large and free warranty repairs

Quote: ccsr

, because not stupid enough to overpay a can for a new car.

But what about overpaying for all the work to the dealer? over the years of the guarantee, a strong amount is paid, it is not known why

Quote: ccsr

... Where do you get your "knowledge" from?

I have two friends over the past two years have bought new cars, Renault, and Hyundai. We talked a lot about a glass of tea. However, we digress from the topic, we were talking about processors

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

here the main words are the refusal of warranty service, what are you all afraid of, sacredly believing in large and free warranty repairs

I'm afraid of course, because I know how much the replacement parts cost.

Quote: aglet

But what about overpaying for all the work to the dealer? over the years of the guarantee, a strong amount is paid, it is not known why

As it is "no way" if they replace different fluids, filters, adjustments of mechanisms and equipment of the car. Didn't you learn that you have to pay for work?

Quote: aglet

I have two friends over the past two years have bought new cars, Renault, and Hyundai.

These are not the best models yet.

Quote: aglet

we are distracted from the topic, it was about processors

I agree, but it’s unpleasant for me when they start to blame our assembly, especially since our people do not work so badly that even the Germans admit.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

As it is "no way" if they replace different fluids, filters, adjustments of mechanisms and equipment of the car. Didn't you learn that you have to pay for work?

you know, Lada warranty warranted much cheaper, and the result was one — the car continued to drive, and in general, any car can go through 30tkm without service, from which it would not be made, personal experience. Answer, only honestly, how much does it cost to change oil and filter, without the cost of oil and filter, from your dealer?

Quote: ccsr

These are not the best models yet.

not the best where?

Quote: ccsr

I agree, but it’s unpleasant for me when they start to fault our assembly, especially since our people do not work so badly,

I don’t argue, our people can work no worse than the Germans, but what do you call our assembly? this is when the wheels are screwed to the car?

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

answer, honestly, how much does it cost to change the oil and filter, without the cost of oil and filter, at your dealer?

I don’t know, because I do it in a complex. But if you are very interested, then take the cost of the norm / hour and the calculation of time costs, then you will get the exact cost of the work.

Quote: aglet

not the best where?

In Russia.

Quote: aglet

this is when the wheels are screwed to the car?

It was in the zero, now so none of the major manufacturers are working.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

I don’t know, because I do it in a complex. But if you are very interested, then take the cost of the norm / hour and the calculation of time costs,

Do I need it? you pay for the oil change, as for the overhaul of the engine for the Lada, and do not even know how much it costs

Quote: ccsr

In Russia

Well, that is, you are not in Russia?

Quote: ccsr

It was in the zero, now so none of the major manufacturers are working.

that is, now they deliver along with the wheels?

Quote: ccsr

I don’t know, because I do it in a complex

but like a magical printout in which everyone writes what happened, what will happen, and how much it costs, it’s hard to immediately figure out

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

you pay for the oil change, as for the overhaul of the engine for the Lada, and do not even know how much it costs

This is all reflected in the invoice that I get and which I keep in a file in the glove compartment of my car along with a service book. Do you have any idea about the modern authorized Toyota center or any other?

Quote: aglet

Well, that is, you are not in Russia?

I lived and live in Russia.

Quote: aglet

that is, now they deliver along with the wheels?

Have you heard anything about container shipping? They do not put machine bodies in containers, but only blanks for the future case.

Quote: aglet

but like a magical printout in which everyone writes what happened, what will happen, and how much it costs, it’s hard to immediately figure out

You will be even more amazed if you find out that this data is also on the service computer, where I have been serving for the last nine years. And everything that they print to me, I store in my car until it is delivered under the trade-in program, when I buy a new car. However, it seems you do not understand this, judging by your children's issues.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

I'm afraid of course, because I know how much the replacement parts cost.

under warranty they change for free, but do you pay for the cost of spare parts, or vice versa? not in the know, never tried

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

under warranty they change for free, but do you pay for the cost of spare parts, or vice versa? not in the know, never tried

Under warranty, everything is free - both parts and replacement. And even washing the car is also free. This is for normal car dealers.

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

Under warranty, everything is free - both parts and replacement.

Well, that is, the work there is free. and you claim that they will do something to you for free? and here are your words, as it is "no way" if they replace different fluids, filters, adjustments of mechanisms and equipment of the car. Didn't you learn that you have to pay for work? so do we pay, or do we not pay?

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

and here are your words, as it is "no way" if they replace different fluids, filters, adjustments of mechanisms and equipment of the car. Didn't you learn that you have to pay for work? so do we pay, or do we not pay?

We pay for scheduled maintenance, for warranty repairs - no. Where do you live, if not secret, and what is your driving experience?

[aglet]

Quote: ccsr

And even washing the car is also free. This is for normal car dealers.

100 rb sink on the background of an oil change for 15 pieces, as it is invisible

[ccsr]

Quote: aglet

100 rb sink on the background of an oil change for 15 pieces, as it is invisible

There are no such prices at car wash centers in Russia.

[ccsr]

Quote: igorka357

Yeah .. in cars you probably understand!

I think that is better than you, that's for sure.

Quote: igorka357

The light bulb did not burn out, and how many times I did the suspension, and checked the gaps ..

I went to do something with an authorized dealer, where I bought a new car.

Quote: igorka357

Although apparently you don’t even understand where to check the gaps in order to establish the build quality!

I do not need to do this, for this there are specialists from the Toyota service center, and they will do it much better than people like you fake "specialists in all cars" who spread fairy tales for amateurs. By the way, I got behind the wheel when, most likely, you were not in the project - 47 years ago, and traveled on Zhiguli of different brands, and on foreign cars of different manufacturers. So hang noodles on the ears to someone else ...

[Sergey-8848]

If in this news you forget about the Ministry of Industry and Trade and isolate the Government Decree on State Defense Orders from it, it turns out that they did a good thing.

[aglet]

Quote: Sergey-8848

it turns out that they did a good thing.

this "news" has been reported for the second year

[zGomeRz]

This video talks a lot about the problems of microchip production.
https://youtu.be/PVczz3uU3j4

[poquello]

Quote: Kaw

Intellects put on Russian military equipment

on intellects and other good rake got out in vulnerabilities

the most obvious and unpleasant application at the moment is getting a dump of the system memory during javascript execution. This means that a malicious script can access memory and pull out passwords, account information, encryption keys, i.e. theoretically everything that is stored in memory.

[evgen1221]

And so the question of where they will do it? If in China, then this is mass, but in the case of chago? I hope in Russia there is where to release it, even for military needs and industry.

[Beby]

Quote: evgen1221

And so the question of where they will do it?

If I got it right, then the title photo shows the Elbrus-8SV microprocessor (Elbrus-8C2) from the first engineering batch received from TSMC.
By the way, the 4 digits below indicate the production date: year / week.
Those. Elbrus-8S not "will be produced", he already produced namely at TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited).

[Tavrik]

For many years now I have been reading announcements that another domestic processor has been created, but I have not seen them in any product. And one processor in isolation from RAM, ROM, controllers, drives, etc. will not do the weather. Even if suddenly we have all this filling, due to piece production, the price will be cosmic, and the price of some laptop based on them will be exorbitant. For reference: the simplest "military" laptop Gitak now costs about 150 rubles. A laptop based on Elbrus with all "our" harness will cost two hundred and fifty thousand. How much the server will cost - it's better not to think ... How it all increases the cost of OCD - you can guess. But there is a second question, temporary. And the delivery time for such processors is how many months? And the final product (laptop)? Well, the third question is reliability. Imported processors have millions of installations, the architecture and operating features are well known. The shoals are cured. And with Elbrus, a lot of time will be spent on finishing up to acceptable reliability. In short, we have lagged behind forever. We can only hope for Chubais and nanotechnology.

[Roma 1977]

Forever is not very long. If the measures are taken correctly.

[Kenxnumx]

What measures do you think are the right ones?

[Captain45]

Quote: Ken71

What measures do you think are the right ones?

It may be rude, but shoot down the 1 / 3 menagers, hang up the 1 / 3, the remaining one should be flogged with ramrods or whips, and after that the remaining third, seeing the fate of the first two, rejoicing that they got off with only ass, will work for themselves and those three guys as if for five It’s different in Russia for too long.

[Kenxnumx]

And how will you determine which third where? And whom to subordinate to these overturned managers? Offer to introduce slavery /

[Captain45]

Quote: Ken71

And how will you determine which third where?

On "the first-second-third, pay off! The first-two, the second - a step, the third in place, shagoo arsh!" You obviously did not serve in the Soviet army "If you cannot - we will teach, if you do not want, we will force!" - this is our main military secret

[Kenxnumx]

I took the oath to the peoples of the CIS :)))))
But what about the rest of the people - still slavery or decimation? You can't force the Herods to work either. And what about the initiative? The flogged are not proactive. And managers are still afraid to step to the left because KPI, and if you hang them, they will stop moving altogether - just "what you please". That will be the late USSR again

[Vadim237]

This will not give anything - the market for microprocessors will not increase.

[Kenxnumx]

We have such a market. If you help a little with tax benefits, then ogogo. But I'm afraid our processors are not very competitive, like all other electronics.

[aglet]

Quote: Captain45

the remaining third, seeing the fate of the first two, rejoicing that they got off with only a ass, will work for themselves and those three guys

nothing depends on the managers, there is no industry, there is no equipment, there are no specialists. and the managers, though all hang out, nothing will change. Meneger is not for work, Meneger is for management

[Vadim237]

There will be no work without him - since he is looking for customers, markets, purchases equipment and organizes production.

[aglet]

Quote: Vadim237

There will be no work without him

without them they worked much more successfully than now. and all of the above you did

[Dude]

In short, we are forever behind. One can only hope for Chubais and nanotechnology.

You know, I heard this song (left behind forever) back in the late 80s - early 90s in relation to our car industry.
Nobody really heard about the Chinese auto industry then. But the Chinese did not wring their hands and did not moan that, they say, everything was gone, where are we to the world-famous auto giants ?! They are worked. Well, how many Chinese cars are traveling around the world now?
It’s easiest to wail that everything is lost.
Comrade Stalin said, in due time, that we are faced with the task of covering the path that the countries of the West have traveled over 10 in 100 years. And they did!
So, tie a whining.
And hope for Chubais ... I hope this is irony.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Dude

You know, I heard this song (left behind forever) back in the late 80s - early 90s in relation to our car industry.

Nothing changed.

Quote: Dude

Well, how many Chinese cars are traveling around the world now?

I have no idea because let the Chinese auto industry use the naive.

[Dude]

Keep abiding in your wonderful hatred. I myself mistrust the products of the Chinese automobile industry, but at least it is strange to deny their huge progress in this (as in many others, by the way) industry.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Puncher

I have no idea because let the Chinese auto industry use the naive.

Chinese auto industry started with ZiS 150

[Tavrik]

China does not have Putin, Rogozin, Medvedev and other Chubais. But there is the Communist Party at the helm. Do you feel the difference? Under the leadership of the Communist Party, China and the auto industry raised both Huawei and the sea of ​​everything else. I'm not groaning. I soberly and calmly assess our chances for the rise of electronics under the current government as "none". Because they don't need it! Why would they create competitors to the Western concerns so protected by them?

[Dude]

Why will they create competitors to the Western concerns so protected by them?

If from this point of view, then, alas, it is difficult to disagree with you.

[Vadim237]

Of course, we feel that 70% of the population has no pensions and 300 million people are poor, the country has a large copy factory, the rise of the economy of which was mainly associated with the transfer by all world brands of its production to this country in view of the cheap mass labor force since the 80s.

[aglet]

Quote: Dude

They worked. Well, how many Chinese cars are traveling around the world now?
It’s easiest to moan that everything is gone

Well, where is the Russian auto industry now? what am I to china? if our auto industry is almost gone

[Dude]

. well, where is the Russian auto industry now?

Uff ... So what am I talking about ?! We must work, and not shout "we are behind forever, it is useless to catch up"!

[Vadim237]

In place - AvtoVAZ, Gas, Kamaz, Urals, Baz.

[aglet]

Quote: Vadim237

On the spot - AvtoVAZ, Gas, KamAZ, Ural, Baz

AvtoVAZ is no longer found — Nissan is called, gas, urals — they work on a teaspoon, KAMAZ collects Chinese engines and boxes, and German cabins on its frame, the military base was and is, what else?

[Vadim237]

Our laptop for the military and not only in a protective case costs 500000.

[Thrifty]

Yes, only as always, the issue will be somewhere in a foreign country, but will it be too expensive for yourself? ??

[Vadim237]

For military and government needs, limited production can be organized at one or several existing radio-electronic plants - 1000000 microprocessors per year.

[Kaw]

IMHO A very interesting video. The history of the Elbrus and Intel processors, they turn out to be very interconnected

[Fat]

Quote: Kaw

Very interesting video

Great video, thanks

[mag nit]

And they say that Skolkovo and Rusnano do not work ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: mag nit

And they say that Skolkovo and Rusnano do not work ...

Elbrus was developed long before Rusnano, almost on a par with Intel. Only Intel went ahead by 14 nm and Elbrus only by 28

[Kenxnumx]

It is important to develop, but much more important to be able to produce. And in order to build the corresponding production, money, personnel and equipment are needed, that is, money again. And also decent relations with science centers and technologically developed countries, so that equipment and technologies are sold to us. That is, you need to deal with your economy, and not get into dubious expensive messes abroad. And so, what is the use of this miracle of Judah, if we print it with nothing.

[Roma 1977]

Already passed. Decent relations with "centers of science and technologically advanced countries" did not yield anything in the 90s. Since they are not interested in the emergence of one more center of science and a technologically advanced country.

[Shahno]

So you have to learn to build relationships. And it's not stupid to sell the "brain" for a penny.

[Kenxnumx]

Then there was not enough money. Buying technology and specialists is very expensive. Raising their scientific staff so that they go abroad only to symposiums and work here is also expensive. It is not enough to declare technology parks — they need to be filled with real meaning — to re-create the electronics industry. It is more difficult than to push money and bombs into what it is not clear. But many did it. For example, China, Taiwan, Israel, etc.

[Roma 1977]

There was a lot of money. But not for science and industry. The ideology of the "free market" - everyone survives on their own. Electronics did not survive. Not oil, after all. And not gas.

[Kenxnumx]

In the 90s, there was exactly no money. But somewhere since 2005, they’ve been spending thoughtlessly, and since 2014, I won’t pick up a term like that.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ken71

In 90x, there was precisely no money.

Very antiresna to me, but where did they go?

[Kenxnumx]

At low oil prices

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ken71

At low oil prices

And what about the gold of the party?

[Kenxnumx]

Stibril part

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ken71

Stibril part

Yes? And why, then, did the report on the search for the gold of the party that the Americans carried out (Kroll agency) disappear somewhere?

[Kenxnumx]

And his party stibril. On self-roll.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ken71

And his party stibril. Self-roll

Report could not batch on a roll of cigarettes. Putin does not smoke. Gaidar with Chubais, too.

[Vadim237]

In Russia, the Ruselectronics concern is engaged in electronics, which includes 123 factories for the production of element base.

[Kenxnumx]

Yes. Only now the level is such that it is necessary to print such Elbrus here abroad. Have you seen our motherboards, video, memory on sale?

[Vadim237]

For commercial - abroad.

[Captain45]

Quote: Roma-1977

Since they are not interested in the appearance of another center of science and a technologically developed country.

Naturally, who in their right mind will grow a competitor for themselves? Do they need it?

[Kenxnumx]

China, Taiwan, Israel

[Cowbra]

And the price is like a stadium in St. Petersburg?

[tranquil]

Of course, because this is small-scale production.

[rayruav]

as far as I remember about elbrus, specialists argued for a long time ago, as I understand it, they completed one single question on whose machines this miracle will be produced

[Hole puncher]

Quote: rayruav

the question is on whose machines this miracle will be produced

Judging by the comments, Taiwan, the US ally, will do it. In this regard, I am confused by the thesis "this is our processor, absolutely safe." It would be true that it would be 100% produced in Russia. But damn Taiwan ..

[rayruav]

I completely agree with you, this is not an option for a strategically important product

[Vadim237]

So this production in Taiwan belongs to Russia - like Baikal Electronics.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Vadim237

So this production in Taiwan belongs to Russia - like Baikal Electronics.

Together with the workers?

[Vadim237]

And the workers have to do with it - what the management told them, then they will do it.

[bear]

Another hole where money will be spent

[AAK]

Taiwan, of course, is good, but where is the production of key elements for electronic devices provided for by mobile laws in Russia? Or will we carry submarine processors during military conflicts?

[UA3QHP]

Quote: Puncher

Judging by the comments, Taiwan, the US ally, will do it. In this regard, I am confused by the thesis "this is our processor, absolutely safe." It would be true that it would be 100% produced in Russia. But damn Taiwan ..

They will not put their bookmarks there. such technology features. But they can shut off supplies.
But to build your factory is an analogue of TSMC, and most importantly it is very expensive to maintain, then there will be no olympiads or championships.

[Roma 1977]

The seediest 28nm processor manufactured in its garden, it will be more important for the country than ten world championships. It is a pity that there is no understanding of this at the top.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Ua3qhp

But to build your factory is an analogue of TSMC, and most importantly it is very expensive to maintain, then there will be no olympiads or championships.

It’s neither warm nor cold for me from olympiads and championships, so I’m for an analogue of TSMC in the Russian Federation ...

[Mestny]

And for millions of those who love all this - do not care about all kinds of TSMC.
Both those and those are citizens of Russia.
What to do?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Mestny

And for millions of those who love all this - do not care about all kinds of TSMC.

Conduct a referendum poll and explain to idiots that
1) or the Olympics + the death of you and your near and dear ones
2) or TSMC + death of men, women, old people and children in ANOTHER hostile state to us
If the majority will vote for the first option, then I, as a supporter of the second option, will be able to prepare and dump idiots from the country ...

[Hey]

A fast processor is good, but if the peripherals are slow, there will be no sense from the whole unit. It’s like a pump that can pump a ton of water, and pipes pass only 100 liters, so more than 100 liters. and do not give. We need the simultaneous development of all electronics.

[serge siberian]

To develop is not yet half the battle. To finish the production is at least for your country, but as already said above: everything depends on money. They are, but in our country, for the people, for wages, they are not.

[Metallurg_2]

Well, for the uninitiated, the Xeon processor tagging says little. How does this pebble compare to the desktop Core i5-7-9?
For example, I have a Core i5-8400. Is it worse or better?

[MP]

Google the LINPACK test and benchmark comparison of desktop processors. The test can be downloaded and run on your computer. For example, my old dual-core notebook i7-3517U issues 22 Gigaflops.

[Sky]

Quote: Metallurg_2

For example, I have a Core i5-8400. Is it worse or better?

If you believe the data https://lanoc.org/review/cpus/7656-intel-8th-gen-core-cpus-coffee-lake?showall=1&limitstart= your processor has 729 GFlops single precision and 364 GFlops double precision.

[Kerensky]

How much excitement! And how many of those processors do we need? It will be one batch, maybe not too big. Printed, packed, on the plane and home. It seems to me that 100.000 pieces will not be needed. And by the time the party is dismantled, something new will arrive in time.

[501 Legion]

Well done, what else can I say.

[UA3QHP]

Quote: Kerensky

And by the time the party is dismantled, something new will arrive in time.

And who will pay for it? A developer cannot bury funds for 100 k of processors; he must sell them, but they demand money for production right away.

[turbris]

And I'm already slowly switching to the domestic one: I have a search engine for Yandex, an antivirus program for Kaspersky, I'm waiting for the domestic operating system, when they release it, I'll say goodbye to Windows right away - thus I will support the domestic manufacturer. Only our large networks and mobile operators, banks do not go to Crimea, so who are they supporting, their pocket? And our pop "stars" do not go to perform in the Crimea - do they obediently comply with the sanctions imposed on Russia by the West, while living in Russia? Is this not an anachronism? And no one is holding them accountable for such actions.

[Tavrik]

What prevents to install AstraLinux instead of Windows?

[turbris]

Tavrik (Eugene) - can you enlighten a little about Astra Linux, is it worth it to go or not?

[region58]

Quote: turbris

I'm waiting for a domestic OS

DEW for example. For home users, the Rosa Fresh option.

Quote: turbris

I have a search engine Yandex

There is still a satellite ...

[turbris]

Thanks! Took note.

[Region-25.rus]

Quote: venik

Quote: Pereira

How much will it cost for the population?

=======
And the fig "population" needs an 8-core processor ??? In the "iPhone" or in the "laptop" to shove ??

Before you knock yourself on the frontal place of the skull, maybe you should think a little? I personally professionally work in 3D graphics. And in the know what is rendering something in high quality? Here the number of cores and speed is not limited - the more the faster and most importantly the better result! Are people involved in video editing, fluid simulations, for example, or other particles ... or are my people and I not the population?

[knyf]

For the population, it is useless, there is no software for it, except for any one Linux assembly. In x86 emulation mode, speed is lost. In general, it is for data centers. The Ministry of Internal Affairs refused him.

[aglet]

Quote: Region-25.rus

I personally professionally work in 3D graphics. And in the know what is rendering something in high quality?

and you don’t confuse your coat and state, professional programs and just everyday use for Skype and Photoshop, movies and the Internet among the population. and the server processor for 3D is not rushing. server is basically a database. as they say, large databases, but for 3D you can safely compile from what is already sold in stores

[Mestny]

Population, population.
Only there are so many of us, 0.5% of the rest of the population?
The remaining 99.5% do not really need such processors.

[Tomich3]

Yeah. Processors Elbrus. And flops will be generated by NVIDIA Tesla or Xeon Phi in general. They will be silent about them.

[JD1979]

Intel Itanium 9760 - 8/16, 32nm, 2017, DDR3-1066
Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 - 6/6, 22nm, 2014, DDR3-1600
Intel Xeon E7-4850 V4 - 16/32 14nm, 2016, DDR3 / 4 - 1600/1866
It is interesting to the creators of Elbrus soon pilgrims will arrive? Because they performed a miracle if their 8th nuclear stone overtakes E7-4850 V4 - 16/32. Or did someone fantasize in an article?

[malyvalv]

This is thanks to the RISC architecture. I worked on an IBM workstation in 2006-2007 with this architecture. The clock frequency was only 100 MHz. The OS was UNIX and the tasks were specialized with a lot of computing. When I spoke about 100 MHz to colleagues who had PCs with frequencies under 3 GHz, they giggled. But this IBM nonetheless overtook them in the calculations. Due to the RISC architecture.
True, now such tasks in the MATLAB environment are made even faster on conventional processors for laptops.

[Mentat]

Quote: Pereira

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series? Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores? How much will it cost for the population?
Or, again, only an experimental sample of manual assembly?

It is a processor for industrial applications, the military sector and large business. The architecture is its own, the software is purely specialized or of limited distribution, so to the population it is like a hare’s fifth leg. But the state and its structures need their processors, especially in the environment.

[aglet]

Quote: Mentat

But the state and its structures need their processors, especially in the environment

why are they needed if they work under Linux, and there is practically no software on Linux for highly specialized tasks. it also needs to be written, and this time, and considerable, although there is no OS either, and it is not known what it will work on. although if sharpened for Linux, windows applications will work in emulation mode, significantly losing performance

[Sky]

It is imperative to develop your own processors, even if they still do not work well, this is a security issue (both economic and military). Just need to soberly assess the capabilities of technology and not wishful thinking.

“Processor-9” was developed using 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm), operates at a frequency of 1,5 GHz, has a peak performance of 576 GFlops single precision and 288 GFlops double precision. Compared to foreign products, the characteristics of Elbrus 8B are comparable to Intel Itanium 9760, Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 and Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4.

The Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4 is manufactured using the 14 nm manufacturing process, operates at a frequency of 2,1 GHz and has not 8, but 16 cores. Naturally, its performance is not comparable and 2 times superior to Elbrus-8SV (1075 GFlops single precision 538 GFlops double precision).
It will be possible to surpass the intellectual analogue only after the release of Elbrus-16SV, which is planned for 2022.

[Roma 1977]

Sounds like oil to the soul.

[Mentat]

Quote: JD1979

if their 8th nuclear stone overtakes E7-4850 V4 - 16/32. Or did someone fantasize in an article?

It has native interprocess exchange mechanisms, so it is possible to create configurations of up to 8 stones per board. If you meant such assemblies of 2-4 processors, it is not surprising.

[Sky]

Quote: Mentat

If you meant such assemblies of 2-4 processors, it is not surprising.

compare assembly with a single processor? this type of us completely for idiots hold?
E7-4850 V4 can only be compared with Elbrus-16, which is still in operation.

Данные отсюда: http://www.mcst.ru/files/5a9eb2/a10cd8/501810/000003/kim_a._k._perekatov_v._i._feldman_v._m._na_puti_k_rossiyskoy_ekzasisteme_plany_razrabotchikov.pdf

[Mentat]

Quote: Skye

Developing your processors is imperative, even if they are not working out well so far.

This processor, the entire series, comes out great. In terms of productivity / development costs, compared to Intel, it is generally just space.

[Vlad5307]

Quote: Egor-dis

Quote: Iline

That's how it is. Only here the Latin on the processor somehow annoying. Is it really impossible to do without her?

And this is aimed at exporting. I would also like to see only Cyrillic on domestic products, but I understand that for this in Russia there must be consumers - like the Chinese. Well, if you dig deeper, then you need at least Cyrillic programming languages ​​(from school), your own (Cyrillic) github and the development of domestic software (in Cyrillic PL) for all universities to scatter.

To do this, it was necessary in the country's leadership starting at least in the 60s to have not leaders from the CPSU who indicated which direction in technology to develop, but smart and technically competent people. Or at least follow their recommendations. All this comes from leaders with a peasant way of thinking and dictatorial manners who know how to lick the 5th point to a higher one and nothing more.

[Mestny]

Quote: Tavrik

China does not have Putin, Rogozin, Medvedev and other Chubais. But there is a Communist Party at the helm. Do you feel the difference?

We feel, but how.
Take an interest in the size of wages, pensions, and the duration and volume of the working day for Chinese workers.
The abyss will open.

[aglet]

Quote: Mestny

Take an interest in the size of wages, pensions, and the duration and volume of the working day for Chinese workers.
The abyss will open.

Do you know everything about Russian workers? there are also more abysses there. while China is lowering its retirement age, is expanding industry to saturate the domestic market, improving quality and life expectancy, take an interest

[XXXIII]

The work was carried out by the MCST company for almost 5 years, 621 million rubles were spent on development work.

We spent a little, here we need a budget like that of the Russian Defense Ministry .....

[Tomich3]

it’s easier for me to slam a minus than to argue my position)

[lvov_aleksey]

to shops does not shine to get. It's like in the USSR transistors of the CT brand (general) and GT (defense)
ps if anyone does not know CT (silicon transistors), GT (germanium transistors)

[UA3QHP]

Quote: lvov_aleksey

to shops does not shine to get. It's like in the USSR transistors of the CT brand (general) and GT (defense)
ps if anyone does not know CT (silicon transistors), GT (germanium transistors)

CT-silicon common, 2T-special application, GT-germanium general, 1T-special application.

Quote: XXXIII

We spent a little, here we need a budget like that of the Russian Defense Ministry.

They got off easily, but they did not need to set those processes.
Now the main thing is to sell.

[lvov_aleksey]

yes, how lucky, but there ....

[Mestny]

These types of transistors had fundamentally different parameters. Germanium transistors began to be used massively much earlier than silicon. Actually, they were the first transistors produced in bulk.
Our best industry in the world was not able in time to switch to the production of silicon transistors. That is, of course they were produced, but their parameters were significantly worse than their foreign counterparts.
The defense has nothing to do with it.

[region58]

Quote: Mestny

the industry could not switch to silicon transistors in time

You write nonsense. 1956 The first silicon fusion transistors P104-P106 are created. KT312 - design and production technology of this first low-power universal high-frequency silicon planar NPN transistor was developed by NII-35 "Pulsar" in the period 1961 - 1963.

Quote: Mestny

their parameters were significantly worse than their foreign counterparts

Strange wording. What are these analogues if the parameters are worse?

[aglet]

Quote: lvov_aleksey

to shops does not shine to get. It's like in the USSR transistors of the CT brand (general) and GT (defense)
ps if anyone does not know CT (silicon transistors), GT (germanium transistors)

there were both in the stores, and belonging to the defense industry was not determined by the name, but by the quality of workmanship

[Dart]

here it is, the topic of polymers then !!
Polymers! do not Cry...
This product is for the military and corporate sectors, remember.
There is no need here to build chains "why is it expensive, not enough, intel is cooler, I didn't take it" And no one will give it, the product is not for home use.

[lvov_aleksey]

I do not understand you, what are you talking about?

[Madjestik85]

While processors are being made to order in another country, there is nothing to be proud of, just as these processors are considered completely their own. Especially since 5 years of development, it’s completely sad

[Zaits]

This is you telling to countless fablesses, so they will be very surprised that they have nothing to be proud of.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: SHURUM -BURUM

It is not profitable to build a plant at home, since it will not pay off.
Do military airfields pay off? The question itself is simply irrelevant. Isn't it possible to build a silicon factory in the order of the state defense order and drive silicon powder with a true acceptance "5" on it?

Have you forgotten about the 9th reception?

[region58]

Quote: Vkd dvk

Have you forgotten about the 9th reception?

Seventh more ...

[Zaits]

Quote: aglet

...
The USSR in the 80s produced computers and laptops a little worse than in the west ...

Where did you read such tales?

"Electronics MS 1504 is the first Soviet portable personal computer in the" laptop "form factor on the KR1834VM86 processor (i80C86 compatible)." (Taken from Wikipedia, too lazy to drive in). Year of release - 1991. Ripped off from Toshiba 1985 release. If I met someone alive, I don't know about that. But I dealt with Toshibka in 1991. Even then it was about nothing.

From the "compatible" in the 80s one could meet the Bulgarian "Pravets". Another miracle. It worked more or less. If you're lucky. There was also a similar miracle, which really did not work for anyone. At least the one I ran into.
And the digger was driven by "Electronics-60". She is nee PDP-11 (greetings from the 70s). The device is glitchy, but deserved.
Still crap all sorts of crap on 8080 and their ilk, but this is not serious. Specialized devices also do not count.
And okromya cabinets as if everything.
And at the end of the 80s, everyone unanimously moved to the screens of Taiwanese scribbles. Well, who could, essno.
Point.

[UA3QHP]

There were EC1840, EC1841, Spark 1030 and finally Electronics 85 - this is a Unix machine, now it is a trend.

[Zaits]

Quote: Ua3qhp

There were ... and finally Electronics 85 is a Unix machine, now it is a trend.

Do you have any idea what you are writing?
- Electronics 85 is an extremely glitchy and unreliable misunderstanding, with which mostly students at universities were tormented. To call it a normal computer does not work.
- Well, the aforementioned XT subcontracts, which I also mentioned in passing, were not very relevant already at the start of the release due to the lack of a hard disk. Even on Electronics 85 there was already a "screw".
- Spark 1030? Did not met. If we take into account that at the time of the start of the release of this lack of worship in 1989, honest Taiwanese clones were already buzzing with might and main in the 386s (the processor was launched in 1985) ... Consider that there was no such miracle.

[Karenas]

They wrote to you - Andropov purposefully spread rot the Union’s microelectronics ...
Microprocessor development by a group of Boris Babayan 1979. had twice as many bits as Intelovsky ...
It is no coincidence that developers who emigrated to the states, whose knowledge was only and only Soviet achievements, immediately declared themselves as innovators there ... Everyone knows about the successes ...

[Vkd dvk]

DO NOT write nonsense. Our tops did not interfere with our developments at all. Moreover. taking advantage of the possibilities of the PLAN system, it was IMPROVED on any small factory, automatic control system, automatic control system, and so on. Felled financing and punished for disruption of plans.
Simply, the stolen microcircuits from which the topology was stripped off were made as long as they could make 100 microns. 50 micron elements. When they went to micron, we got up. There was no ultra-precise optics, finest chemistry, powerful computing capabilities. You can’t buy equipment. The sale of such technology was blocked by Johnson-Vanik law in the United States. Punished not punished firms with connections with the USSR. Then a sharp lag started.
If you were at least to a small extent aware, you would understand that it is not enough to have an IDEA. It is still necessary to IMPLEMENT it. But this was a complete strain. Above, I wrote about the reason for the plug.

[Karenas]

I cooked a little in this thread ... Even at my prompting, from the states they came to Moscow and took people of this direction ...
And they left here in 1992 ... That is - there was no lag !!!

[Zaits]

You about Thomas, and you about Yeryoma ...
By the end of the 80s in the USSR there was simply nothing to produce microcircuits of the required technological level. The technological peak at the end of the 80s is a clone of 8086 since. 3mkm process (years of the release of the original 1978-1990). And even that, they really could not establish the release.

[aglet]

Quote: Zaits

Where did you read such tales?

but there were, you yourself confirm this, you simply didn’t allow us to develop and improve, there was no more time, capitalism destroyed its competitors. and you forgot about robotronik

[Zaits]

"...
The USSR in the 80s produced computers and laptops a little worse than in the West ... "- your words? And I'm trying to convey to you that this statement has nothing to do with reality. Especially in the part of laptops / laptops. On average, Soviet computers were noticeably worse than bourgeois computers.In contrast to you, I had the opportunity to see for myself.
This happened mainly due to problems with components, erroneous technical policies and interests of Soviet manufacturers. technology (it was easier and more profitable for them to produce the most large computers). So neither capitalists nor time has anything to do with it. Electronics, with rare exceptions (see Alferova), we prosrali ourselves in Soviet times. By the way, these successes are in some ways connected with the fact that the Soviet scientific community actually put a bolt on silicon. Wherever you spit, they were engaged in A3B5, silicon carbide and other exotic.
And rare exceptions, we almost completely prosrali already in the 90s. And there, yes, both the bourgeoisie and their own, newly baked capitalists, had a hand in it.

And in this situation, it is generally surprising that at least some quite adequate production of quite modern electronic components has revived in Russia (do not pay attention to the screams from the series "Intel 32 nm", "made in Taiwan", etc., people just not in the subject).

[aglet]

Quote: Zaits

do not pay attention, people are simply not in the subject).

Are you in the subject? can you explain where we, not taiwan, produce something, even at 45nm ?. and yet, when computers began to be produced in the union in the 80s, they were not very different from the bourgeois-pentiums and there weren’t any of them, there were mistakes in planning, of course, as without them, but that could be overcome. , built a large computer, for production, but began to make computers, household direction. I was holding a Soviet laptop in my hands, I had a Spectrum issued by us, and I could work on nairi taught at the institute. and now, do you have the whole computer released with us? no, and there won’t be, reasons-sea, wild capitalism was added to those that you cited. and this is the final point in domestic production

[Brains]

What is there in the "Minprotorg" believe that the author of the libel has already paid you. Got it or not? On "you", I call those who somehow respect. You, (a person morally ....) How much did you pay? Or are you "political Lyokha Navalny"?

[Penzyac]

Quote: Nehist

... The processor is built on the basis of frankly outdated architecture. That is, in performance, it lagged behind by 10 years. ...

Why do you think so? For example, the same Pentium, as you know - the Russian development exported to the United States by one traitor ...
You do not believe in Russian ingenuity, but you believe in the technical genius of Amer merchants, how many native Americans themselves invented without the help of immigrants? ...

[pafegosoff]

And then Babayan, the Elbrus developer, rushed after this "traitor".

[NordUral]

That's not news! News when they tell me: run and buy! And at a reasonable price.

[Tavrik]

Quote: Puncher

I have no idea because let the Chinese auto industry use the naive.

In order to dispel doubts about the Chinese automobile industry, read the auto press about Hawale or visit their salon. Learn a lot of interesting things.

[sabotage]

“Processor-9” was developed using 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm), operates at a frequency of 1,5 GHz, has a peak performance of 576 GFlops single precision and 288 GFlops double precision. Compared to foreign products, the characteristics of Elbrus 8B are comparable to Intel Itanium 9760, Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 and Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4.

You can write any nonsense in VO - all the same, most readers can’t do it by foot. It’s nothing that processors measure the floppiness of the process, taking into account the fact that video cards overtook them in this matter by an order of magnitude.

[Tavrik]

Quote: PENZYAC

You do not believe in Russian ingenuity, but you believe in the technical genius of Amer merchants, how many native Americans themselves invented without the help of immigrants? ...

Strictly speaking, Americans are all immigrants. We can say that all the trash dumped from Europe to new lands in search of adventure and hiding from the laws. And we can say that the active part of the population of European countries, which due to class restrictions could not realize themselves at home, went overseas and there "in the open field" in the shortest possible time "invented" a new country. And in general, if people from all countries (and Russians too) went there and found use for their talents, then there was an opportunity for such use. In a wide variety of areas. What's not at home? Have traders built a country with a powerful economy in less than 150 years (with the Civil War and crises)? In general, we have an interesting approach: if an immigrant (Lefort, Bering, etc.) does something necessary and useful for Russia, he immediately enrolls in the Russians. If an immigrant does something useful for America, for some reason he does not become an "American" and remains an immigrant. Or we are "strangled" by a toad when someone who is not Russian does something outstanding?

[pafegosoff]

Will it be produced in Taiwan or Korea? With American bookmarks?

[ont65]

A processor for servers is not consumer goods. For the closed functioning of internal networks, launching it into series will be timely. And domestically produced supercars based on it will also be needed.

[Sky]

Quote: ont65

And domestically produced supercars based on it will also be needed.

absolutely true, and the developers from MCST JSC already have such plans, the main thing is to bring them to life

[Dzafdet]

The price will be no less than 300 rubles per piece... It’s sad to look at it...

[Dzafdet]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Pereira

Wonderful. When will the production plants begin to be built? When in a series?
Will it become obsolete by the time it appears in stores?

back to the article

"Processor-9" is developed on 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm),

intel

Officially about Westnre Intel 32-nm processors
12.02.2009 [10: 00], Ruslan Tsap
As we previously reported, Intel already launched this year the 32-nm processors of the Westmere generation, which will inherit most of what was successfully implemented in the 45-nm architecture of Nehalem.

What is the lag in processors on 10 years?

Intel: PC based 10-nm processors will go on sale at the end of 2019 year

comments are superfluous - as you understand

Well, you bent. For MOST industrial processor applications, an Intel 386 or a Zylog 80-8400 will suffice. What kind of technical process did they have there? And these processors are designed to replace blade processors in data centers and servers. Maybe they will be used in the control systems of nuclear submarines and surface ships, in the self-propelled guns of aircraft and missiles. And we missed the everyday life forever...

[Shahno]

Today we flew around the factory on a turntable at 10nm. The feeling of “Lord, have we really done this”

[Sky]

Where is the factory located?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Vkd dvk

Johnson-Vanik law

Of course, Jackson-Vanik. I was wrong, I apologize.

[bone1]

In Russia they made their own processor!!! - well, how about their own? - almost - how's the processor? - similar

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: region58

Quote: Vkd dvk

Have you forgotten about the 9th reception?

Seventh more ...

7 no. 9-nuclear. Didn't they know?

[Viknt]

It is too early to judge commercial prospects. One can only guess how much processors actually cost. There are no words to say how much imported dual-use processors cost the country. The very appearance on the market of a more or less acceptable alternative can lead to lower prices for processors in general (in theory); in practice, everything will depend on the marketing policy of the market “elite”. Electronics at exorbitant prices have no future, and without electronics in every army sock there will be no army. Let's hope it's not all that bad.

[Pupkin Vasya]

I read such “news” and remember the “honestly stolen” VM80, T34))) Well, why promote something that no one needs except a bunch of narrow-minded people who are completely sick of ism?!

[UltraRed]

For those who are "on an armored train":
1. The processor is not designed to work with video programs. X86 (X64) hardware emulation mode - only to extract data from some "Masday-exotic".
2. "Native" OS for it are native "Elbrus OS" and "AstrLinux". Since there are compilers for them, recompiling a bunch of open source software programs (with a GPL license for Linux) is not a question!
3. The architecture there is not “a little different from Intel” - but absolutely different! If only because it has RISC - which is more optimal for server tasks, and multi-threaded applications in general. The architecture is exclusive - i.e. It’s clear that SPARC is “finished”, but what and to what extent is another question. It is clear that it has completely retained from its “progenitor” the best optimization of multi-core and multi-processor capabilities compared to X64, which to a certain extent eliminates the lag in the dimensions of the technical process. And in general, when talking about the “advanced” x64 architecture (Intel and AMD), specialists “laugh out loud”.... Marketing success in the conditions of a market monopoly and tech. perfection - things are quite different...... Well, the Motorola 680XX were much more successful than the Intel x86, so what?
4. A Taiwanese company can have factories and not only in Taiwan...... ("The smart one will understand..." - G.K. Zhukov)
5. The processor is not “consumer” and, due to its low volume production, will indeed be expensive for civilian use. But all computers become obsolete over time, and someday I hope to purchase a system decommissioned from the military unit with it..... I still don’t use Windows, but a device that has passed military inspection will be quite acceptable in quality. (I now have a “pumped up” PowerMac G5 from 2005 (with PPC architecture)) - it works like a homeworker under Linux - and it doesn’t cope......:)

[spectr]

Will it make it to production? In 2015, they approached us with an offer to participate in the development of Elbrus. When I opened the TK I went nuts. On the Internet they write about the start of production of Elbrus-4S, but we were offered a working base for Elbrus-1S, and the requirements for functionality and deadlines are as if the country occupies a leading position in IT and microelectronics.
We then softly refused this work, since in principle we did not understand how some points of that technical specification could be fulfilled.

[sabotage]

Quote: UltraRed

1. The processor is not designed to work with video programs. X86 (X64) hardware emulation mode - only to extract data from some "Masday-exotic".

Why didn’t I see a standard set of undersoftware for Linux, which is “practically in no way inferior”???

Find me a suitable CAD system for Linux, or don’t tell me anymore about must-have exotics, young system administrator.

Well, how will servers slow down with such a frequency per core!

Quote: UltraRed

"pumped up" PowerMac G5 from 2005 (with PPC architecture)) - plows like a homeworker under Linux - and copes with nothing......:)

You have to somehow explain your poverty...

[Pupkin Vasya]

Quote: region58

DEW for example. For home users, the Rosa Fresh option.

But what kind of “domestic” is it?! Mandriva clone. And remember that among Linux of different varieties and lousiness, there is no concept of “domestic”. From the word absolutely.

[Punch]

photo. real size?

[Kukuruzka]

The Intel Itanium 9760 processor was discontinued in.....TWO THOUSAND AND ELEVEN!!! And 4 years later, Russia has just started development!

[Aleksandre]

For what purpose is it necessary to lie so stupidly? The Itanium 9700 series appeared only in 2017.
https://www.ixbt.com/news/2017/05/12/intel-itanium-9700.html

[WMGuard]

Production at Mikron.
https://youtu.be/PVczz3uU3j4

[TAMBU]

Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4 is a 16 core 32 threaded...with 2,1 in the base frequency...whose I have doubts about their identity and therefore two questions at once: what is Elbrus's heat dissipation and consumption? in fact, these parameters for assessing efficiency are no less important than productivity... as is the price per piece in mass production

[Aleksandre]

Xeon 4850v4 TDP 115W
Elbrus 8C TDP 60-80W (depending on the chip marking, may have different steppings)
Elbrus 8SV 90W (with twice the productivity compared to “8C”)
Well, and Itanium 9760 170W
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/ru/ru/ark/products/93806/intel-xeon-processor-e7-4850-v4-40m-cache-2-10-ghz.html
http://www.mcst.ru/elbrus-8c
http://www.mcst.ru/elbrus-8cb
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/ru/ru/ark/products/122883/intel-itanium-processor-9760-32m-cache-2-66-ghz.html

[TAMBU]

very worthy...what can I say)

[Aleksandre]

I was a little mistaken, Elbrus’ official website does not indicate TDP (heat dissipation requirements), apparently, but power consumption. Perhaps something like an advanced ACP, in this case we add another 20-30% to TDP. But still not bad.

[TAMBU]

yes, I already saw it... this is the most interesting thing and five “steps” of voltage, interesting...))

[Zaits]

Well, everything is true about consumption, but rather conditionally. First of all, it is interesting how it will perform on a particular class of problems. And the south bridge...

[Lord_Bran]

Building desktop PCs on server hardware? Oh well...

[Syroitel_nik]

Quote: Nick_R

I will answer briefly: I pay taxes, which then government officials arrange a cut in the budget. The rest is empty chatter.

Those who cut the budget are periodically sent to bunks. Is VV honest and decent? Go to power, people like you are needed there, just not sitting on the couch

[aglet]

Quote: Syroitel_nik

Those who cut the budget are periodically sent to bunks

those who cut the budget periodically face criminal punishment, but so what? threatens and stops, there are a lot of examples. So Ulyukaev was given back everything he had honestly earned through back-breaking labor. and not only him

[Syroitel_nik]

Whatever laws the Duma comes up with, that’s what they do. You're probably one of those who don't go to the polls, are you? Your hut is on the edge. Or will they choose without you, everything has already been decided?

[aglet]

Quote: Syroitel_nik

You're probably one of those who don't go to the polls, are you?

I’m just going to the polls, but I’m not voting for Putin, but what’s the point? I don’t choose the Duma, they follow party lists, the president doesn’t abandon his own, I’m not one of his own, he approves any laws that are beneficial to his own. Is everything covered in chocolate? go to the polls, choose your choice, everyone is happy, and we can solve everything!!! Pioneer enthusiasm is in full swing

[Syroitel_nik]

did you get diarrhea when you heard the word PIONEER? What do you mean, everything is covered in chocolate? When you have everything and are sitting on the couch? Get up and start doing something. Or are you waiting for your uncle to do it for you? Remembering the 90s, I can say frankly that I now feel calmer about my family, children and neighbors. It’s not like under Yeltsin and his gang, when they shot and slaughtered people. Sumgait, Transnistria, Karabakh. Or were you better off then?????

[aglet]

Quote: Syroitel_nik

What do you mean, everything is covered in chocolate? When you have everything and are sitting on the couch?

I have everything and I sit on the couch whenever I want. I’ll say more, I had everything both under Soviet rule and in the 90s. I always worked, and my family did not go hungry, they did not travel by bus, and did not live in a hut, and no uncle did anything for me. and apparently your mother told you about fears about the 90s, when she was a girl and she saw horrors everywhere

Quote: Syroitel_nik

when they shot and slaughtered people. Sumgait, Transnistria, Karabakh. Or were you better off then?????

Angola, Mozambique, Sudan, Ethiopia, what else can I add? They always shot and slaughtered, and will always cut and shoot, to me, whether Ethiopian or Karabakh is equally purple, I supported and defended my family, whether under Eltsin or under Putin, and not these Ethiopians. and now, I’m old, I enjoy the fruits of my labors to my heart’s content, and my family is already strong enough, they will help if necessary. I can give you free advice - think less about Sumgayit, think more about what is happening in your country, and take care of your family, and life will become more interesting.
PS, you woke up too late, are you not an Estonian?