We ironic over the Norwegian frigate, and the Liman themselves have PD-50 at the bottom

179
On November 7, the largest NATO exercise held in Scandinavia, the Trident Juncture 1991, has been completed since 2018. Following this, other exercises started with the participation of NATO countries - already in the Baltic republics and Poland - “Anaconda”. If you delve into publications in the domestic media about the NATO military maneuvers actually near the borders of Russia, then you can make an unequivocal conclusion about the nature of such publications.

"Average" opinion about the maneuvers Trident Juncture 2018 involving more than 50 thousands of NATO troops, published in our media, is: “This is a complete failure! NATO is not capable of a big war! Their ships burn and collide with tankers, then lose speed on the high seas! Ordinary Norwegians complain about the servicemen, which means there will be a rebellion, and NATO may cease to exist today or tomorrow! ”



On the Anaconda exercises in Poland and the Baltic States, which are clearly aimed at improving the operational environment of the Kaliningrad Region: “In the Baltics, there are still no roads for heavy armored vehicles! Bridges will collapse under the American "Abrams"! The training of their officers is extremely low, as they are trained not in Russian military universities, but in the NATO system! It is enough for us to shake the Kaliningrad Iskander, and NATO will run to look for opportunities to sign the act of surrender! ”

To the mockery of the fact that the Norwegian frigate was rammed by a tanker, one would be happy to join if it were not for the flip side of this hat-offing. Unfortunately, they themselves are not insured against such incidents. There is still no exact data as to why the crew of the reconnaissance ship "Liman" of the Russian Navy made a collision with a ship-carrying ship. Recall that then, in April, 2017, our “Liman” near the Bosphorus was much less fortunate than the Norwegian frigate in the region of Bergen. He went to the bottom, and had to take measures so that the intelligence contained on board did not reach the potential adversaries. Fortunately, the members of the “Liman” team remained alive. The version voiced by the Turkish media: “there was a strong fog” is hardly an excuse and explanation. After all, fog on the sea is not a rare phenomenon.

We ironic over the Norwegian frigate, and the Liman themselves have PD-50 at the bottom


There is still no exact information about how it was assumed that the largest float in Russia was in a semi-submerged state in the Murmansk region. As there is no data on whether or not it is going to raise. And if they are not going to, will they build a new one?

This is to seriously discuss the "complaints about NATO" by the Norwegian peasants and the fires on NATO warships in a situation where the bloc, openly calling Russia an enemy, exercises closer and closer to our borders, as much as you like, but Complacency military conflicts have never prevented, and certainly not won. “All is gone” isn’t screaming, but it’s rather strange to feel puppy enthusiasm about the fact that “something broke” during the exercise at our borders.
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  1. +46
    12 November 2018 11: 17
    ... ironic

    The old man Marx was right. sad
    1. +23
      12 November 2018 11: 21
      There is an inform war, where one of the main goals is to hide our own failures and to show the enemy’s failures as much as possible .. Here our media and politicians have clearly succeeded ..
      1. +55
        12 November 2018 11: 36
        Quote: Svarog
        There is an inform war, where one of the main goals is to hide their own failures and maximize the enemy’s failures ..

        In the Soviet years I read a foreign military review. I liked the accuracy of the content, the realistic assessments of the capabilities of the potential adversary and the possibility, if anything, of ours to withstand cash. Then, at least in the ZVO, they did not try to belittle the achievements of the enemy. In general, no one fell into panic from his successes either. Simply put - BECOME YOURSELF worthy! Nobody descended to the cormorant.
        1. -6
          12 November 2018 13: 00
          I read the article carefully, but when I got to the puppy's delight, I immediately remembered Krapilin and Khludov laughing This is the norm to grieve over your losses and rejoice in the losses of the enemy. For some reason, the author calls to moan about his losses and grieve over the losses of the enemy. Conclusion, the author - pours water on the mill of the enemy. Either an enemy agent or an alarmist, in both cases to the wall (a joke). He also does not have information about the floating dock, there only rumors and military divers did not give media interviews. At the expense of Kaliningrad and the exercises, and what really happened there, what they showed there was amazing, checked the coordination of the troops of the alliance countries, and that ... And the failure of the exercises in the Arctic was laid down initially, well, the AUGs are not suitable for work in the northern latitudes, they argued here for a long time about this. What they drowned and combat modern ship and compare with our humble Estuary, well, just not serious. Ours, even in the fog, collided like this in one of the busiest places of world transit, and then during the exercises, with all its capabilities, it has rockets there, four phased arrays look ... on all four sides. So what? Therefore, we recall the estuary, save the floating dock, and laugh at the NATO failures and Iskander is really a terrible and mobile weapon, TNW allows burning groups not of 50 thousand, but much more, we have 152 mm nuclear shell and one Msta-S can stop all the enemy’s creeps . And they did the X-101/102, and the S-400, and Tu22M3 and Tu-160 began to lay again in the series, exercises, almost every single day, including the last: Vostok-2018, where not 50, but 300 thousand personnel involved, more than a thousand aircraft, 80 ships and 36 thousand units of ground equipment. And the author suggests apparently giving up wassat
          1. +17
            12 November 2018 13: 26
            Quote: hrych
            And the author suggests apparently giving up

            Oh, this is "Apparently". From Theresa May, or something, they got infected, with her "high degree of probability."

            In this case, I will allow myself: The reader, apparently, very poorly understood what the article is about, and therefore, instead of a sober assessment of the situation, he continues to engage in capriciousness, which automatically pours water on the enemy's mill. Therefore, the reader is at stake (a joke, of course), because he either knows whose agent is, or is completely incompetent, proposing to stop the enemy by Mstoy ...
            1. +4
              12 November 2018 13: 47
              Once again, I explain to you that the Russian Armed Forces do not throw their caps up, but launch combat satellites, an unprecedented rearmament of the army is underway, and large-scale exercises are underway. The Russian Federation is conducting a military operation in Syria, where weapons and tactics are practiced in combat conditions. This is not true? Is it like a drunken assessment of the situation? They are in a panic, they are conducting exercises because of our threat. What more do you need? And you call for repentance and despondency. So you can be awarded a proud name - Akhedzhakova wassat All right, the General Staff would sit and watch how the NATO troops travel along the borders, because they are not deploying S-400 complexes, the same Iskanders, Bastions, etc. As long as you call not to rejoice in the losses of the enemy and lament the Estuary and the floating dock, steel masters are brewing steel right now the sheets of the next Borea, the nuclear scientists have read the enriched uranium for reactors and warheads, and the crews and crews are preparing, and in Syria the guys stupidly wet the barmalei with all available means. It is also unacceptable to insult part of the audience and compare it with puppies, they will not understand in Korea. Therefore, the article is burned, the author ... well, take pity on the compulsory work and taking notes of the Juche abstractwassat
              1. +17
                12 November 2018 14: 54
                Quote: hrych
                I again explain to you that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are not throwing their caps up,


                Well, you once again confirm that you read the material here, you didn't read it here, they wrapped the fish here. In the material in Russian it is written in white about the assessment of events in the media. Where did you find at least a word about the fact that someone is being "thrown over with hats of the RF Armed Forces"? .. Therefore, the result: remove the reader from the combat watch, enter thirty-three cubes of aniseed, dosed out commenting - only after passing the exam "for attention" to the political officer )))
                1. +4
                  12 November 2018 15: 11
                  I agree, but there must be romanticism - a snack laughing
          2. +12
            12 November 2018 13: 35
            That would agree with you ..
            Yes, only to the East of 2018 we pulled off ALL that is .... and they only have a fraction of everything ..
            1. +12
              12 November 2018 13: 56
              Not what is, but what remains. Nobody west and southwest did not expose.
              1. -1
                12 November 2018 14: 01
                Well, at least some kind of oil ...
            2. +2
              12 November 2018 13: 57
              Quote: Ace of Diamonds
              East 2018 we pulled ALL that is

              Come on, 300 thousand is less than a third of the millionth army of the Russian Federation and the fleet is involved only in the Pacific, and it would be possible to use more laughing Of course, a large-scale transfer of troops was worked out, their support and coordination, they checked our airborne forces and special forces especially well, connected the Chinese, although this is more likely to be the main message with the Japanese ... laughing
              1. +4
                12 November 2018 14: 04
                Excuse me...
                You yourself have served in the Army?
                And let the naval correct me about TF ...
                1. 0
                  12 November 2018 15: 12
                  I did not serve in the Navy, unfortunately
                  1. -1
                    12 November 2018 15: 14
                    accepted...
          3. 0
            12 November 2018 22: 54
            Blessed is he who believes ...
        2. +17
          12 November 2018 13: 36
          The magazine was what you need! He grabbed articles of a schoolboy. Even tyagomotin with the structures of all kinds of units, tactical wings, headquarters was read easily and with interest. In the news there were even insignificant, at first glance, facts of haulage of aircraft from one base to another.
          One thing was bad: there were very few magazines with non-faded color pages. laughing
        3. +2
          12 November 2018 19: 33
          I support, ZVO was an outstanding magazine. The information was presented very carefully, without hatred and panic. There is a site in Net with all its numbers.
      2. +10
        12 November 2018 11: 39
        We also have enough failures. It is necessary to draw conclusions to avoid the repetition of errors.
        1. +4
          12 November 2018 12: 04
          Quote: Bearded
          We also have enough failures. It is necessary to draw conclusions to avoid the repetition of errors.

          No, I'm thinking, but what should the readers of the site have done? To express solidarity with the NATO military who conduct exercises with an anti-Russian bias? Throw a cry for opening an account and collecting money for repairs to the Norwegians? Maybe we don't know what, and after the flooding of our "Liman" all euro ('re coming out) users fell on Russia with words of support and sympathy? No?!
          Well, the NATO troops drowned one vessel, which theoretically could take part in hostilities against Russia - well, how can this not be approved? The crew was not injured and okay. Or was it necessary to leave the topic without discussion and comments? Chickpeas is the administration’s right to disable commenting. Why was the news given at all? What would give an incentive for self-flagellation to exercise?
        2. +8
          12 November 2018 13: 10
          Theodore Roosevelt ... He who does nothing is not mistaken. Do not be afraid to make mistakes - be careful not to repeat mistakes. .................................................. ............. The one who does nothing is not mistaken, although this is his main mistake.
          - Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy
        3. +2
          13 November 2018 10: 36
          But drown the flooding it needs to be managed. Steamboats drown daily, and floating docks once a hundred years ..
      3. +1
        12 November 2018 12: 10
        There is information war, only some are on the other side of the boricade and with foam at the mouth they begin to prove that we are miserable and miserable and where we can compete with the lights of the West.
        And you can’t even laugh at them.
      4. +3
        12 November 2018 13: 00
        Quote: Svarog
        There is an inform war, where one of the main goals is to hide our own failures and to show the enemy’s failures as much as possible .. Here our media and politicians have clearly succeeded ..

        You personally with like-minded people completely overlap the positive of our media!
        In general, shapkozakidatelstvo is certainly bad. Relaxes. But even worse is self-flagellation and constant sprinkling of ashes on the head! Here is the author of this article, Alexei Volodin, from the Western media regarding direct criticism of everything and everything that concerns Russia, to learn more ... A Russian person cannot grin wryly while looking at the disgraced NATO frigate! Especially when we are being poured with mud from all sides and from all available means! Remember the smoke of "Admiral Kuznetsov". Then our home-grown svarogs simply revel in jokes like we are not clever ... Oh, ah! However, "Admiral Kuznetsov", in spite of these sobbing, perfectly completed the combat mission.
        And the NATO frigate is floundering on its side ... This news almost upsets me! And I have no gloating. I just admire this picturesque picture, like a good Russian esthete! I like these ships in this position.
        1. +13
          12 November 2018 13: 52
          Quote: Detective
          However, "Admiral Kuznetsov", in spite of these sobs, perfectly completed the combat mission

          somehow went back and forth and lost 2 aircraft. well, even though the pilots escaped
          1. 0
            12 November 2018 14: 42
            Axelbant, don’t be so upset about this NATO frigate. Can they fix it, somehow? Something back and forth ?! AND?! No, really, you don’t get so desperate. Not everything is so bad and clumsy on your NATO street. The army and navy is absolutely not European, just a matter! There you are - love
            1. +8
              12 November 2018 15: 12
              Quote: Detective

              Axelbant, don’t be so upset about this frigate

              me this frigate is completely sideways, and NATO too. and somehow here and there, it was "Admiral Kuznetsov" who went, with completely unclear goals, and immediately, for repairs. Or do you have any other goals and results of this campaign?
              1. 0
                13 November 2018 16: 46
                Of course, his results are different, but he clearly wrote: "Admiral Kuznetsov" perfectly completed the combat mission. "It is typical, for hurray-patriots, to turn everything upside down. That's just concretely, there's nothing to write about the combat mission. Since Kuzya suffered more losses than he gave profit, and such scribblers do not see this. Only blah blah- blah.
          2. +1
            13 November 2018 10: 38
            Thank God, though "Kuznetsov" was not drowned in the dock. It would already be a circus for the whole world.
          3. 0
            13 November 2018 13: 45
            somehow went back and forth and lost 2 aircraft. well, even though the pilots escaped

            Probably, judging by the text, you were on board and saw the entire trip in order to appreciate all the work in this way? Yes, the entire pipeline of foreign entities on the "problem" cruiser cruise is aimed, in essence, at discrediting and belittling the role of the Russian Navy. Since they are afraid. And it was rightly said: "... However," Admiral Kuznetsov ", despite these sobs, perfectly completed the combat mission ...". For you (from the couch), this task is spitting - why did you "swim", "lift", "lost planes" ..., and what was included in the combat mission (?), What forces and means would NATO members perform the same task (? ), and how many of the same NATO planes have crashed (?) from their, I emphasize, aircraft carriers (and not like ours - a cruiser. You can feel the difference in size and skill).
            1. -1
              13 November 2018 17: 49
              Quote: ASASHOKA
              Probably, judging by the text, you were on board and saw the whole trip

              his campaign was widely covered in the media, both among us and among the enemies, so, one might say, he saw. During the combat flooding of its own aircraft at Kuznetsov, NATO aviation, both land and sea, suffered no losses. NATO, like, sent AUG with "Truman", or maybe not, "Kuznetsov" is clearly not dangerous to them. but "de Gaulle" was there, and he was clearly not alone. but the French did not suffer losses, they did not harm the ecology. then yes, he perfectly fulfilled his task, this is in your opinion, and in the opinion of the MO. and I think this campaign is a shame for the country. He clearly showed what our fleet and naval aviation are worth (I know that not all naval aviation is based on Kuznetsov, and their planes are land based). and do not tell me about the calibers - there will not be enough of them for all the adversaries. Somehow the nuclear submarines still hold on, thank God, there is something to answer the adversary, and even there the enemy declares that he sees all our boats in positions, and does not sink because only that the time has not come yet. so it's okay, lovely ... "". repeat these words 5 times before bedtime - and everything will work out for you
              1. 0
                22 November 2018 17: 10
                No need to worry so much about the reprints of Western publications. "Kuznetsov" carried out tasks from start to finish and in full, and your NATO comrades worked as spies, no more. If you are not aware of their problems, this is your loss (even just during exercises, not in a combat situation, your NATO "eagles" bombed positions with "Hummers", sank boats and ships ..., I will not list, although the Western press and will not say a word ...). For education, you need to talk to those participants in the campaign, whom you actively ignore and gladly humiliate. I don't even want to suggest who you are. Do not think so badly about your country (if it is your country) - everything is completely different now - "repeat these words 75 times before bedtime, and everything will work out for you."
        2. +1
          13 November 2018 09: 57
          However, "Admiral Kuznetsov", in spite of these sobbing, perfectly completed the combat mission.

          Yeah .. perfectly completed the combat mission - he drowned two of his Su-33 and MiG-29 K aircraft. And so he did everything perfectly .. :))
          1. 0
            13 November 2018 13: 59
            Kind! But you, it turns out, did you know all the goals and objectives of the Navy grouping in the Mediterranean?
            If only to blurt out and postebatsya ..., but the fact that with this twist you show your dimness is sad. At least they took the pros and cons, weighed the minimum to begin with. We figured out what it means to complete a combat mission, decomposed forces and means ..., conducted a comparative analysis - "better", "worse". And verbiage is easy ...
        3. 0
          13 November 2018 10: 32
          What is the task? He brought his already not numerous air group to Khmeimim, but two so generally to the bottom? And when he returned, he became a dock for another repair.
          1. 0
            13 November 2018 14: 14
            Yes! Strong in statements! Another expert on all the goals and objectives of the group ...
            Newspapers have been read until stupid - now you all know ... You do not give an assessment from your bell tower, my dear. Understand the material. At least in what a combat mission is and how to accomplish it.
            And you don’t need to attract fallen planes by the ears. There are problems, but these are not the problems that affect the performance of a combat mission.
            For your information: not a single NATO pilot on the Kuznetsov's deck can not only land, but also take off, even for money. It's too tough for them, it's scary. They only prefer their wide "troughs". It's about the skill of the deck pilots.
            1. 0
              13 November 2018 17: 21
              The trip of the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" to Syria is a PR campaign that is completely senseless from a military point of view. There are no bombers on board, and the fighters carried only 2 bombs, so they landed on Khmeimi and there they took bombs, bombed and then went back to Kuzya. The effectiveness of such an application of a dozen Kuzi aircraft is less than a pair of Su24 and a pair of Su34 with Khmeimi.
              In addition, the loss of the Mig is on the conscience of the commander Kuzi: the MiG-29KR simply ran out of fuel, while the pilot flew in a circle and waited for the same ill-fated aerofinisher to be repaired in order to land. At the same time, the plane could easily leave for an alternate airfield - the same Russian airbase Khmeimim. But the command decided to take a risk and, as it turned out, in vain. Because of this absurd decision, a brand new $ 50 million fighter is resting at the bottom of the sea. The second plane was lost due to the inexperience of the pilot, so you shouldn't talk about "the skill of the deck pilots." It's just that the ship and the pilots were not ready enough for this campaign, but Putin insisted.
            2. -1
              13 November 2018 18: 05
              Quote: ASASHOKA
              Yes! Strong in statements! Another expert on all the goals and objectives of the group ...
              For your information: not a single NATO pilot on the Kuznetsov's deck can not only land, but also take off, even for money. It's too tough for them, it's scary. They only prefer their wide "troughs". It's about the skill of the deck pilots.

              in fact, they all fly for money, even from their wide troughs. they may not be as masters as our pilots, but there are many, many more. and take the "Kuznetsov"? Well, will our some supermaster deck be able to sit on the deck of the Aurora? "Kuznetsov" compared even to "Truman" as "Aurora" compared to "Kuznetsov"
              1. 0
                22 November 2018 17: 19
                Again out of place comparison. Just to give something)))
            3. -1
              14 November 2018 10: 09
              Of course it's scary, otherwise the aerofinisher will suddenly burst. By the way, thanks to repairs of which Kuzya doesn’t leave, I am surprised that someone can even board the deck. Yes there is a THREAD in Saki, but it will not replace a real deck. And take a look at how the Americans land on their aircraft carriers. I do not sit down where I want, but in a strictly defined area, this is by the way about skill.
              1. 0
                22 November 2018 17: 23
                Yes ... Americans are handsome, they can only "in a certain zone", God forbid, not on a narrow deck and only in calm weather - the masters are the same.)))
      5. +2
        12 November 2018 14: 15
        Quote: Svarog
        where one of the main goals is to hide their own failures and maximize the enemy’s failures ..

        is it about own failures?
      6. +2
        13 November 2018 00: 13
        Svarog (Vladimir) hi
        There is an inform war, where one of the main goals is to hide their own failures and maximize the enemy’s failures .. Our media and politicians have clearly succeeded in this..
        good In what? Kakulit for themselves. Yes, the World Cup without meldonium won without doping. laughing
    2. +9
      12 November 2018 11: 50
      Quote: dorz
      Old Marx was right

      About quotes from the Internet, Lenin said .... laughing
      1. +8
        12 November 2018 12: 08
        Quote: Antares
        Quote: dorz
        Old Marx was right

        About quotes from the Internet, Lenin said .... laughing

    3. +3
      12 November 2018 12: 29
      dorz (Dmitry
      The old man Marx was right. sad
      Ha ha ha !!!! good laughing Exactly!!!
    4. +4
      12 November 2018 13: 29
      Damn, to tears !!! good laughing
      The finale is good. Marx would approve.
    5. +3
      12 November 2018 13: 30
      Nothing at all ... but where did Kurly Murly come from about video games ...? .My in the Pioneer and Komsomol did not say this ...
    6. +9
      12 November 2018 15: 07
      Particularly pleased that Marx was familiar with Olga Buzova, Zemfira and video games.
      Oh, how the old man joined the stream.
    7. +1
      12 November 2018 20: 54
      Quote: dorz
      ... ironic

      The old man Marx was right. sad

      Yeah, especially about video games))) The media gives a picture for us, the masses of people, so as not to panic, do not think that everything is lost, propaganda is called ... Those who are supposed to, know the objective picture and adequately respond to the situation. In our country, people have always been able to throw dust in their eyes ...
    8. +1
      13 November 2018 10: 33
      Under Mordykhai there was no Buzova and Zemfira.
    9. +1
      13 November 2018 13: 26
      Yeah, especially in the part "... video games, Olga Buzova, battles of Zemfira with buckwheat and a coin ...")))
      1. 0
        18 November 2018 08: 58
        I’ll risk now to assume here
        That Marx — he lived, he is alive and will live,
        Like Lenin, he will never die,
        He sends us messages from heaven fellow
  2. +18
    12 November 2018 11: 18
    Propaganda is propaganda. One of its obligatory numbers is to humiliate the enemy and exalt their own.
    That is precisely why the materials are submitted from the position "we have a whole boat entered the base, and they are building two nuclear submarines for the fourth year." I hope everyone remembers the story with "Donald Cook", when the planned rotation of the drug was presented by all RosSMI as the flight of the drug from the destroyer due to a pair of our planes flying over it.
    1. -13
      12 November 2018 11: 41
      Our pair of old airplanes blinded and conducted a training attack on the latest American destroyer equipped with the Aegis system. This is our success.
      1. +10
        12 November 2018 11: 49
        Quote: Bearded
        a pair of old airplanes blinded and conducted a training attack on the newest American destroyer equipped with the Aegis system

        Did the sailors from Cook tell you how deaf and blind they were?
        1. +3
          12 November 2018 12: 33
          A couple of months after the incident infa flashed that there was a breakdown in the capture and tracking of targets. The wording is quite streamlined and allows any kind of fantasy. Also, there is no information whether the frigate switched to the combat mode of air defense systems. Nobody will tell us about it ... But if the disruption was also in combat mode, then we can assume that it was blind and deaf. And if you stayed on duty (did not take measures to counter the REB), then everything is fine - the information will be analyzed by both parties.
          1. +4
            12 November 2018 12: 38
            Quote: dzvero
            flashed info

            there was no real information! stuffing for info I do not recognize
            Quote: dzvero
            Also, there is no information whether the frigate switched to the combat mode of systems

            which frigate?
            Quote: dzvero
            But if the breakdown was also in combat mode, then we can assume that it was blind and deaf.

            you can assume that he drowned - so more beautiful
            Quote: dzvero
            And if you stayed on duty (did not take measures to counter the REB), then everything is fine
            What are you writing? do you even understand either ReB or frigate, then on standby = do you understand something in the subject?
            1. +5
              12 November 2018 13: 56
              Quote: Tiksi-3
              you can assume that he drowned - so more beautiful

              !!!
              1. +2
                12 November 2018 15: 58
                27 destroyer crew members submitted resignation reports. Commenting on their actions, they said they did not intend to endanger life.

                The Pentagon on Monday issued a statement in which it claimed that the Russian Su-24 bomber flew several times on Saturday near the US Navy destroyer Donald Cook in the Black Sea and at the same time imitated a combat attack several times.

                As Pentagon spokesman Colonel Stephen Warren told Reuter, a Russian bomber flew twelve times at low altitude not far from an American destroyer. Warren called such maneuvers intimidating and unacceptable. They demoralize the personnel of the ship and negatively affect the overall psychological climate among the military.
                http://novorus.info/news/policy/15233-pentagon-priznal-chto-imitaciya-ataki-su-24-na-esminec-vms-ssha-proizvela-demoralizuyuschiy-effekt-na-ekipazh.html

                There is not a word here that the ship turned out to be blind and deaf.
                There is only a mention here that the Americans are very scared when a real combat aircraft approaches their trough.
                And really simulate 12 times when entering a ship - what does that mean?
                Either really blind and deaf, or the Americans are extremely peaceful guys, and pacifists from all states gathered on warships with modern weapons.
                The latter is hard to believe. So there is a probability of the first option.
                1. +1
                  13 November 2018 10: 36
                  Ha ha ha !!! Why not a word about those who have no analogues in the world of Khibiny?
            2. +6
              12 November 2018 16: 28
              Real information will not be long. From the facts - there was a flight of 'Donald Cook' by two Su-24; after flying around, 'Donald Cook' entered Constanta instead of Odessa; The Pentagon accused the Russian pilots of dangerous rapprochement and lack of professionalism. So you are right - no one officially mentioned any kind of impact. But there were such overflights both before and after Cook, and the ships did not change their course so radically, and even so serious charges were not brought. What happened then we are unlikely to know in the foreseeable future. Neither officially, nor - even more so - on the forums. One can only speculate within an alternative history ...
              1. 0
                13 November 2018 17: 33
                People, it has long been proven that this is all nonsense about the destroyer "Donald Cook". Here are excerpts from the newspaper "Vzglyad":
                As warner Colonel of the Soviet Air Force warns, Viktor Alksnis, quoted by VZGLYAD newspaper: “I feel sorry for our fellow citizens who believe in this and are sincerely convinced that we have a magic switch that we can turn off not only Donald Cook, but the whole US generally".
                The flood of cheers-patriotic performances annoys experienced military pilots.
                The deputy head of the Center for Analysis, Strategies and Technologies ("AST Center") Sergey Denisentsev called speculation about the possibility of Su-24 bombers to disable electronic systems of the American destroyer using the Khibiny electronic countermeasure systems. “This is crazy nonsense,” Denisentsev told VZGLYAD newspaper.
      2. +7
        12 November 2018 13: 54
        Quote: Bearded

        Our pair of old airplanes blinded and conducted a training attack on the latest American destroyer equipped with the Aegis system. This is our success.

        and who told you this? Konanenko or Rogozin?
      3. 0
        13 November 2018 14: 24
        Quote: Bearded
        Our pair of old airplanes blinded and conducted a training attack on the latest American destroyer equipped with the Aegis system. This is our success.

        And Ukraine has already died for 4 years! wink
    2. +1
      12 November 2018 13: 40
      Let me lag behind life ....
      So was there a couple of planes, or is it all just one SU 24?
      1. 0
        12 November 2018 19: 11
        In order not to overexcite people on the topic of airplanes and ships, history (genuine) for unloading.

        One of my acquaintances, a philologist in his youth, dealt with the problem of forming the image of the enemy during the interwar period in the USSR. As part of this work, he had an article on shaping the image of Japanese militarism in the Soviet press. And the English-language magazine, either Amer’s, or Canadian, desired this article.
        There was a translation problem. Well, he turned to my wife - her level of English is "native speaker" and she is now busy teaching English to Indian children, but not about a speech, but about an article. The wife honestly warned that she would translate into English English, and not into American or Canadian, which, in general, suited everyone. I made a translation, the article was sent to the editor.
        The answer from the editorial board immersed the author and the translator in reflections: "The article is interesting, meaningful, and has not been mastered. The only question that arises is why the Soviet press so often focuses on the homosexuality of the Japanese military."
        Then, for a long time, they sorted out what epithets the editor took as evidence of this same japano-militaristic homosexual. I already had no time to climb into the details of that debriefing, because my work was overwhelming.
  3. +3
    12 November 2018 11: 21
    VO, why did you stop quoting authors of articles or links? stop
    1. +12
      12 November 2018 11: 29
      Quote: askort154
      VO, why did you stop quoting authors of articles or links?

      It seems like the author, your humble servant, is listed. Or under your material is not displayed?
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      12 November 2018 15: 56
      Quote: askort154
      VO, why did you stop quoting authors of articles or links? stop

      And I read under the article:
      Author: Volodin Alexey
      Photos used: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
  4. +15
    12 November 2018 11: 21
    This sales is not our national fun, do not notice the logs in your eye!
  5. +1
    12 November 2018 11: 23
    What for raise this floating dock - he worked for 39 years, all the more so now the dry dock is being built on Zvezda twice as large as PD 50.
    1. +12
      12 November 2018 11: 26
      It’s its norm to build it .... only you need to raise the dock, metal and other nishtyaki are there. Isn't a sheepskin worth dressing?
      1. +2
        12 November 2018 11: 32
        Considering how much acetylene you need to spend cutting it, a 40 liter bologna - 2000 rubles - the sheepskin isn’t worth the candle, it’s easier to push it into the 100 meter ditch.
        1. +10
          12 November 2018 13: 30
          Quote: Vadim237
          40 liter Bologna - 2000 rubles - the game is not worth the candle,

          A ton of ferrous metal (structural steel) costs 14000, its further processing is cheaper than the smelting of steel from ore. In addition, it is more advantageous to obtain acetylene from calcium carbide in situ.
          Not for nothing that the scrap metal companies stand in line for cutting.
          Again ecology.
          1. 0
            12 November 2018 13: 58
            And not 6000 hours.
            1. +8
              12 November 2018 14: 06
              6000 is the price without cutting, for a whole ship, after cutting into pieces the price rises to 14000. This is ferrous metal. But there is also a colorimeter.

              The Chinese will cheer and carry away with a bang. laughing
              1. +5
                12 November 2018 15: 59
                Quote: Comrade Beria
                The Chinese will cheer

                "Grinders" and hacksaws without any acetylene. laughing
          2. -3
            12 November 2018 17: 55
            Quote: Comrade Beria
            A ton of ferrous metal (structural steel) costs 14000

            a ton is from 15 to 22 thousand per ton
            Quote: Comrade Beria
            its further processing is cheaper than the smelting of steel from ore.
            laughing thanks neighing from the heart
            1. +4
              12 November 2018 18: 18
              Quote: Tiksi-3
              thanks neighing from the heart

              Oats not fit?
              Or it wouldn’t have borne, then first get the ore and coal, then enrich the ore, and get coke from coal. Then in the blast furnace get cast iron.
              Then, weld steel from cast iron in the converter, if you like, you can also in open-hearth. As I think, after that you will not only laugh, but laugh too.
              Meanwhile, I will melt the scrap metal in the electric furnace.
              1. -1
                13 November 2018 08: 34
                Quote: Comrade Beria
                Meanwhile, I will melt the scrap metal in the electric furnace.

                steelmaking procedure - tell your wife, do you have any idea of ​​the difference between martin and elpechka ??? you are our metallurgist ......
                1. 0
                  13 November 2018 17: 39
                  I can imagine, as I worked with an arc steel-making furnace DSP-25. Therefore, I will say that "Comrade Beria" wrote everything correctly.
                  1. 0
                    13 November 2018 18: 55
                    Quote: Fan-Fan
                    Therefore, I will say that "Comrade Beria" wrote everything correctly.

                    it wasn’t generally right everything he wrote - since you didn’t catch the point, but you are trying to make smart things. All about the cost from his field (fiction) of comparing martin and electric furnace in raw materials (price) and smelting is the height of illiteracy !!!
                    1. -1
                      13 November 2018 19: 39
                      Quote: Tiksi-3
                      All about the cost of his field (science fiction) to compare martin and an electric furnace in raw materials (price) and smelting is the height of illiteracy !!!

                      Well, if you are so competent, lay out a full calculation of the production of tons of steel in open-hearth furnaces and electric furnaces.

                      And at the same time tell us why the last open-hearth furnace was closed in Russia, and several electric steel plants were put into operation.

                      The capitalists in the Russian Federation were completely overwhelmed, they began to work at a loss lol
                      1. 0
                        13 November 2018 21: 09
                        Quote: Comrade Beria
                        The capitalists in the Russian Federation were completely overwhelmed, they began to work at a loss

                        belay laughing no need to juggle about the loss
        2. +3
          12 November 2018 17: 45
          Quote: Vadim237
          reading how much acetylene you need to spend cutting it, 40 liter Bologna - 2000 rubles - the game is not worth the candle

          Why acetylene and not propane?
        3. -1
          12 November 2018 23: 20
          Acetylene is not used. Use propane - cheaper.
          1. 0
            13 November 2018 18: 59
            Quote: rzzz
            Acetylene is not used. Use propane - cheaper.

            it doesn’t matter your opinion - it’s important to post it - for 30 years already, as when cutting m / scrap only propane or scissors - when cutting river vessels use only propane, by the way they go to the cutting line only for the volume - the price and if the ship is not on the slipways then the average price throughout the Volga is 8000-9000 r \ t
      2. +14
        12 November 2018 11: 33
        Quote: rocket757
        only it is necessary to lift the dock, metal and other nishtyaki are there.

        It seems to me that the fate of the PD-50 has already been decided somewhere upstairs. But while in no hurry to voice this decision to the general public ...
        1. +4
          12 November 2018 11: 37
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          It seems to me that the fate of the PD-50 has already been decided somewhere above

          There the plant must be selected if it is in private hands.
          1. +1
            12 November 2018 13: 37
            Will you go as a director? laughing

            Information for consideration.

            State Space Corporation Roscosmos

            Key figures Dmitry Rogozin (CEO)

            Who does not understand, he will understand (s)
          2. +2
            12 November 2018 13: 58
            Quote: Gray Brother
            Quote: bouncyhunter
            It seems to me that the fate of the PD-50 has already been decided somewhere above

            There the plant must be selected if it is in private hands.

            well, as in private, there seems to be sechin steers, a civil servant laughing
        2. +1
          12 November 2018 12: 07
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          until in a hurry to voice this decision to the general public

          Yes, any decision, most importantly justified! Profitable - not justified, sho our people are so uneducated, can not count?
          1. 0
            12 November 2018 14: 01
            Quote: rocket757
            Yes, any decision, most importantly justified! Profitable - not justified, sho our people are so uneducated, can not count?

            not only counts, even can't write. read comments, if you can read, you’ll understand
            1. +2
              12 November 2018 14: 16
              Quote: aglet
              not only counts, even can't write. read comments, if you can read, you’ll understand

              To each can claim a roll. The costs of the digital age .... the computer will correct, the computer will calculate, but it is not smarter than an ordinary teacher or corrector!
              Yes, and rush always and in everything.
              And the people know how to count, for the most part, and even with a hind mind! All is not lost for us.
              1. +2
                12 November 2018 14: 18
                Quote: rocket757
                And the people know how to count, for the most part, and even with their hind minds! All is not lost for us

                here about the back mind you are right, this is our strength
    2. BVS
      +3
      12 November 2018 11: 34
      And that THIS dock will be distilled to the Murmansk region?
      It must also "build all existing and prospective vessels with practically no restrictions on the tonnage and launching weight of hulls, including the largest Arctic LNG carrier developed for operation on the Northern Sea Route within the framework of the Arctic LNG project, high ice-class drilling ships, nuclear icebreakers "Leader", marine equipment and other unique vessels, "- said the head of Rosneft.
      And the PD 50 was "intended for the repair of strategic nuclear submarines, ships and transport vessels with a displacement of over 25 thousand tons."
      Yes, most likely its driving across half the world is not provided purely constructively.
    3. +4
      12 November 2018 11: 51
      Quote: Vadim237

      What for raise this floating dock - 39 years he worked his

      To build the same several years will be required. If he has no structural damage, then he must be lifted.
      1. +2
        12 November 2018 12: 02
        In principle, everything must be considered. They simply clearly said something definite, then the wave was not empty b.
    4. 0
      12 November 2018 12: 07
      Quote: Vadim237
      What for raise this floating dock - he worked for 39 years, all the more so now the dry dock is being built on Zvezda twice as large as PD 50.

      And how to drag Kuznetsov there to the Star?
    5. +2
      12 November 2018 12: 25
      So, note, 237:
      "Its parameters will make it possible to build all existing and prospective vessels with practically no limitation of tonnage and launch weight of hulls, including the largest Arctic LNG carrier developed to operate on the Northern Sea Route under the Arctic LNG project, ice-class drilling vessels, nuclear-powered icebreakers Leader, marine equipment and other unique vessels, "the head of Rosneft noted.
      RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/economy/20180911/1528262024.html

      This dock is not for the Navy, and indeed it is far away, besides it is not floating (hydraulic engineering structure).
    6. +1
      12 November 2018 13: 48
      A good topic ... Building your floating dock - to drown the old and blame everyone and everything for it ...
      Yes, only questions remain ...?
      And when this PD will be put into operation and what to do to those who stood in line in the queue?
    7. +2
      12 November 2018 14: 28
      Quote: Vadim237
      especially now a dry dock is being built on the Star twice as large as the PD 50.

      Well, when will it be built? year by 30? if a submarine was built for 13 years?
    8. +1
      13 November 2018 13: 13
      And how will Kuznetsov be delivered to the Stars? Our great meneger teleportation? Or in the midst of burksirs? fool
  6. +8
    12 November 2018 11: 27
    in fairness, then you need to report all the problems and abnormalities:
    - fire on the frigate Halifax Canadian Navy
    - storm damaged ship of the US Navy Gunston Hall
    - ship Toronto Canadian Navy lost speed
    - Norwegian Navy KNM Helge Ingstad frigate badly damaged

    Total 4 serious problems during short-term exercises.
    1. +10
      12 November 2018 12: 45
      Quote: Kubik_ machine gunner
      - Norwegian Navy KNM Helge Ingstad frigate badly damaged

      The frigate lies exactly on all sides. So the nasal compartments are flooded. Further more. Now, before the first storm, when it will be completely taken to the shore.
      Nice Norwegians played a war with the northern aggressor
      1. +2
        12 November 2018 14: 23
        Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich
        Nice Norwegians played a war with the northern aggressor

        An aircraft-carrying ship, we hope that in the hangar a helicopter killed by salt water laughing The funny thing is that he is aground and on his side, it’s very difficult to carry out work and to fit a large vessel for lifting work. Still apparently rescuers are very disturbed by the ebbs and flows. It’s easier to sell Hollywood for a science fiction movie laughing
        1. +1
          12 November 2018 18: 51
          Give Ukraine
      2. +1
        12 November 2018 17: 57
        Why are you so worried about them)))) As there, in "Antikiller" - "one ... less and that's good")))
  7. +1
    12 November 2018 11: 28
    Until now, there is no exact information about how it was assumed that the largest float in Russia was in a half-flooded state in the Murmansk region.

    Dragging is.
    Enough detailed written:
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4573935.html
  8. +4
    12 November 2018 11: 28
    And in the story of the Norwegian destroyer, I was surprised by the professionalism of its commander. As he carefully and competently put the emergency ship on the stones. Filigree. A real sailor.
    1. +1
      12 November 2018 11: 35
      Quote: Galleon
      As he carefully and competently put the emergency ship on the stones. Filigree. A real sailor.

      It's like a car driver, after a collision with a truck, would be able to brake filigree on a pole.
      A true professional - yes. lol
      1. +5
        12 November 2018 11: 39
        Sergey, a little bit wrong. After a collision with a tanker and assessment of damage, the commander brought the destroyer to the shore and laid it on the stones, carefully laid it, thereby repeatedly reducing the difficulty and cost of subsequent emergency rescue operations and saving a bunch of ship armaments and equipment from flooding and decommissioning. You look at the photo online, check out a competent and quick calculation and execution.
        1. 0
          12 November 2018 11: 45
          Quote: Galleon
          check out a competent and quick calculation and execution.

          I do not think that he will be given a medal for success in the struggle for vitality. It was necessary to carry out calculations earlier.
          1. +3
            12 November 2018 11: 51
            For success in the struggle for survivability, no one is given a medal. Look, my friend was saving PM sinking, supervised the work. He fell into the open hatch (in the dark), broke his leg. He didn’t let the ship sink, he went with a stick for a year, but they didn’t even say thank you.
            1. 0
              12 November 2018 12: 08
              Quote: Galleon
              saved PM sinking,

              I guess the wall? A sinking floating workshop is generally hand-face.
            2. +8
              12 November 2018 12: 14
              Quote: Galleon
              And in the story of the Norwegian destroyer, I was surprised by the professionalism of its commander. As he carefully and competently put the emergency ship on the stones. Filigree. A real sailor.


              And before that, he also correctly cut the tanker that tore his board. And the tugboats put it to the shore, the emergency service worked and it was good that the shore was nearby.
        2. BAI
          +2
          12 November 2018 13: 13
          put it on the stones, carefully laid

          Now, if he put it on an even keel - then, yes. And on board is almost like a keel to the top.
        3. 0
          12 November 2018 14: 10
          ship on the needles. professionally sent, huh?
    2. +3
      12 November 2018 13: 45
      Quote: Galleon
      Filigree. A real sailor.

      This must be addressed to the captain of the tug who managed to tow the sinking frigate, lost moveon the sandbank.
    3. +1
      12 November 2018 16: 56
      It can be seen that you are close to maritime affairs. Land is harder to understand
  9. +9
    12 November 2018 11: 28
    Of course, you don't need to notice the "log" in your own eye either, but it's also not worth going to the other extreme, that everything is bad with us, that we can’t do anything wretched and wretched ...
  10. 0
    12 November 2018 11: 28
    Quote: Vadim237
    What for raise this floating dock - he worked for 39 years, all the more so now the dry dock is being built on Zvezda twice as large as PD 50.

    And what for to heat it, at least count metal.
    1. +1
      12 November 2018 13: 55
      PD-50 in general, no one, so far, has not considered ...
      Although .... who knows, they can figure it out in advance and have it. what do we have ...
  11. +6
    12 November 2018 11: 29
    Recall that then, in April 2017, our “Estuary” near the Bosphorus was much less fortunate than the Norwegian frigate in the Bergen area.
    Yes it is, but the value of the old "Liman", whose skin thickness was maintained by timely "injections" of cement, and in fact, the new strike ship is still very different
  12. +2
    12 November 2018 11: 29
    It’s always nice ... When a cow died from a neighbor ... And rightly so ... And only we compare our losses with those that they have ... There is always the best ... A couple would take this habit ...
  13. +14
    12 November 2018 11: 36
    Bravo. A rare article with rational essence. I respect you.
  14. +4
    12 November 2018 11: 38
    Quote: Svarog
    There is an inform war, where one of the main goals is to hide our own failures and to show the enemy’s failures as much as possible .. Here our media and politicians have clearly succeeded ..

    Information war is only part of the Cold War 2.0. Failures of the adversary should not reassure us. We must work and achieve the result ourselves.
  15. +20
    12 November 2018 11: 43
    It's no secret that we have few floating docks from the USSR. One of them, a few years ago, was insured, removed from the port of Novorossiysk and supposedly he immediately sank (read drowned), an insured event.
    There is one more. Once even "Kuzyu" was brought into it for repairs.
    Yesterday I talked with an old friend who is directly related to the leadership of the NSRZ and the floating dock.
    The Novorossiysk Shipyard is now owned by Transneft, as is the Novorossiysk Commercial Port.
    So, last week they gathered all specialists related to the floating dock at the NSRZ and announced their reduction. Motivation? No old school needed! We need modern "effective managers".
    They don’t need a floating dock; instead of NSRZ, they need a platform for transshipment of metal over a hill. Ship repair is troublesome!
    But for me it’s called sabotage!
    There is no need to fight with us, just hire more "effective managers" at key factories and shipyards. am sad
    1. +4
      12 November 2018 14: 07
      Quote: Valter1364
      There is no need to fight with us, just hire more "effective managers" at key factories and shipyards

      said well. only about the government you need to add. there are still members (governments)
    2. +1
      13 November 2018 13: 39
      And this is such an effective management not only with you, it is like this all over the country :( We have also finished ship repair plants in Primorye: VSWR, there is no 178th ship, there are still crumbs from Dalzavod, the shipyard is breathing its last, by the way there are two docks drowned there. The rest are also in a deplorable state. Ships in the bark or China are being repaired. But they just swell money into the Star, well, of course they steal: (((
  16. +2
    12 November 2018 11: 47
    Volodin ...It seems like the author, your humble servant, is listed. Or under your material is not displayed?

    Thank ! Corrected. Yes
  17. 0
    12 November 2018 11: 55
    We compared the ship of 1974 and a modern electronic frigate stuffed with electronics. Well, about PD 50 - there are enough idiots everywhere. Everything falls and drowns for everyone if it is even exploited or even exists. I look at the author directly hooked. Yes, and commentators vsepopalschikov from around the internet collected.
    1. +9
      12 November 2018 12: 18
      Why not catch it? Where to put large ships for repair, are you our optimist?
    2. SOF
      -1
      12 November 2018 12: 26
      Quote: Azazelo
      I look at the author directly hooked .....

      .... I also recall the smearing in excrement of the entire carrier-based aircraft and its only carrier, at that time for the first time in my life I had chosen a database after incidents in the Mediterranean ..... BUT! .... we better keep quiet, because this is - hatchery .....
  18. +2
    12 November 2018 11: 56
    Hat-making, primordially Russian fun. True, it was always very expensive ...
    And after all, there are proverbs about logs and specks and a neighbor's cow ... and statements (which their busurman regretted, for example)
    I do not argue that in many countries there is also an element of this. But what the media do with this fun goes to no limits.
    In general, hats always end sadly ....
    Better overestimate the enemy than underestimate ....
    and to win on paper (Peter 1) we learned well ...
    1. +3
      12 November 2018 12: 08
      Better overestimate the enemy than underestimate ....

      and overestimating and underestimating the enemy is equally bad. better to have real information
      1. +1
        12 November 2018 12: 10
        Quote: Rich
        better to have real information

        she is always changing. It’s better to always take with a margin (that is, overestimate, but not enough to panic)
      2. +1
        12 November 2018 12: 42
        Buddy Rich, ideally it is best to know the real situation, but it is not always possible to have such information. In this case, as they say: "it is better to stay than not to finish." As an example, the KV-2 tank: at the end of the 30s, we received information that the Germans had powerful anti-tank guns and began hastily to develop a tank with reinforced armor. In fact, the Germans had 37mm anti-aircraft guns, but they compensated for the lack of powerful anti-aircraft guns with 88 mm anti-aircraft guns.
        1. +1
          12 November 2018 14: 12
          Quote: vladcub
          but they compensated for the lack of powerful anti-aircraft guns with 88 mm anti-aircraft guns.

          this is when they started to fight the USSR, in the European one they had 37mm. and KV-2 was designed to suppress powerful pillboxes and fortified areas, and not to combat T2, or T1
        2. 0
          12 November 2018 14: 18
          Quote: vladcub
          As an example, the KV-2 tank:

          Probably KV-1

          The KV-2, armed with a 152 mm howitzer, was not intended for tank attacks, but for fighting enemy fortifications, including from closed positions.
  19. +2
    12 November 2018 12: 03
    There is still no exact information about how it was assumed that the largest float in Russia was in a semi-submerged state in the Murmansk region. As there is no data on whether or not it is going to raise. And if they are not going to, will they build a new one?

    Both floating docks were built in the West. And who will build them for us now?
    1. +2
      12 November 2018 14: 13
      Quote: NordUral
      Both floating docks were built in the West. And who will build them for us now?

      Well, who, who? China
      1. +3
        12 November 2018 14: 15
        Right now, they’ll run away. Not China should build a fleet for us, but we ourselves must. Soon, without a fleet, we will remain under the loud cries of the liberals in power, how cool we are.
        1. +1
          12 November 2018 14: 32
          Quote: NordUral

          Right now, they’ll run away. China must not build a fleet for us,

          not, since we ourselves can’t let China build. the power of Siberia will be given to them, and the taiga with Baikal. and they are us- flooding
          1. +2
            12 November 2018 14: 36
            axelbant! I will not argue. "Our" are still those businessmen, as well as politicians, however. Which is very sad. In his seventies, it becomes scary to understand that the country is preparing to disappear. And all sorts of historical tales about Rome and Atlantis do not comfort you, as you think, what awaits children and grandchildren with great-grandchildren.
        2. +3
          13 November 2018 13: 45
          Yes, we are already almost without a fleet :( But comrades Kiselev and Solovyov sing to us "All is well, beautiful marquise" :(
  20. +2
    12 November 2018 12: 03
    We ironic over the Norwegian frigate, and the Liman themselves have PD-50 at the bottom

    Yes, no one sneers at disasters in peacetime. The death of equipment (enemy, enemy) rejoice during hostilities. In our case, material was required here - "look, we are not the only ones like this ..."
    Until now, there is no exact information about how it was assumed that the largest float in Russia was in a half-flooded state in the Murmansk region.

    Why do you need accurate information and the names of those who should be responsible for the interruptible power supply of a special category enterprise? Will this fix something? Here the most common case of sloppiness and self-confidence is that nothing terrible can happen. I will tell you more - often the employees (surviving) enterprises (institutions) learn about the availability of emergency exits and the evacuation plan only after a fire. belay
    As there is no data on whether they are really not going to raise him. And if they are not going to, will they build a new one?

    Who will take responsibility for the upgrade if it is already known in advance that it can cost an amount in excess of the purchase of a new PD? Another question - why do they buy such structures in the country if they suddenly become unusable due to the negligence of the leadership? Does it make sense for such structures or is there any possibility of building such structures as locks on canals?
    1. +1
      12 November 2018 14: 34
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Another question - why do they buy such structures in the country if they suddenly become unusable due to the negligence of the leadership?

      this dock was purchased back in the USSR, then with the leadership it was a little better
    2. +2
      12 November 2018 16: 11
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Another question - why do they buy such structures in the country if they suddenly become unusable due to the negligence of the leadership?

      and why in the country such a guide, if simply from their negligence (well, just from doing nothing), the floaters are drowning? and if, God forbid, they begin to work, then what will happen? no, let it not work better
  21. +5
    12 November 2018 12: 22
    I agree with the author, neighing and cleverly nodding towards the Norwegians (like we certainly aren’t like that) ... and even more so CLUMPING in terms of NATO INSUFFICIENCY is the chatter and scribbling of level 880 SOFA.
  22. +1
    12 November 2018 12: 25
    Quote: Bearded
    We also have enough failures. It is necessary to draw conclusions to avoid the repetition of errors.

    In my youth, I read somewhere: "the smart learn from the mistakes of others, and the stupid ones create problems for themselves in order to solve them" seems to me the right thought
  23. +1
    12 November 2018 13: 39
    Quote: Antares
    Quote: dorz
    Old Marx was right

    About quotes from the Internet, Lenin said .... laughing

    Do you want to make us laugh or what? Indeed, during the life of V.I. Lenin, no one even heard about the Internet.
    In my opinion, attributing to Lenin delusional statements is at least not serious. I agree for humor, you can touch such words and the Neanderthal, but Lenin is not the figure to laugh.
    1. 0
      12 November 2018 14: 24
      Quote: vladcub
      but Lenin is not a figure to laugh.

      Such a person with his own strengths and weaknesses. Yes? Or a deity?
  24. kig
    +2
    12 November 2018 14: 28
    Author, you forgot to mention the aircraft carrier G. Truman, who hastily completed the exercises, because the Tu-160 flew nearby, and the Tu-142 flew completely nearby.
    1. +4
      12 November 2018 14: 38
      GPS is said to have been suppressed. Finns with Norwegians are outraged to disgrace.
      I feel they’ll hang this tin can on us. belay
      Like, it was the Russian hackers who intervened and drowned the glorious ship of the glorious descendants of the Vikings.
  25. +2
    12 November 2018 15: 00
    Hmm, ahejaknul not childishly ... sobbing ...
  26. +2
    12 November 2018 16: 19
    Quote: hrych
    Either an enemy agent or an alarmist, in both cases to the wall (a joke).

    Only on the count!
  27. +1
    12 November 2018 17: 34
    Well - finally an article with common sense good , without any husks from propaganda, cheers (patriotism) and all-disappearance. It’s better to consider the real state of things than the news as our fleet has replenished with a new ... tugboat!
  28. +1
    12 November 2018 17: 39
    Quote: aglet
    is it about own failures?
    As far as I remember, our failures with the Estuary, etc. also covered. The fact that we are ironic over others is also quite normal, well, now do not cry from the incident with the frigate.
    crying
  29. AB
    0
    12 November 2018 18: 14
    The version announced by the Turkish media: "there was a heavy fog"

    In, this is the point. While the shore felt around, they did not notice anything. The guys got carried away.
  30. 0
    12 November 2018 18: 22
    There is still no accurate data on why the crew of the Liman reconnaissance ship of the Russian Navy made a collision with a cattle ship.

    The reconnaissance ship must detect all kinds of ships through its VUS. How can one fail to notice an ordinary ship - a mystery.

    ROSS 42 (ROSS 42) ... Who will take responsibility for the upgrade, if it is already known in advance that it can cost an amount in excess of the purchase of a new PD? Another question - why do they buy such structures in the country if they suddenly become unusable due to the negligence of the leadership? Does it make sense for such structures or is there any possibility of building such structures as locks on canals?

    It is possible that when it falls to the bottom, the dock has received additional damage or deformation and is suitable only for scrap.
    Although objects fall slowly in the water, no one canceled the forces of inertia and a blow to the uneven bottom could damage the dock. You also need to have equipment to raise such a large piece of iron and a place where it can be repaired
    Means it is necessary to agree with NATO, let them repair it, they have everything.
  31. 0
    12 November 2018 21: 01
    I absolutely agree with Comrade Volodin Alexei. There is simply no reason not to agree with him.
  32. +2
    12 November 2018 23: 41
    Okinawa F / A-18 swam, yesterday in the same place in Japan, the staff sergeant major was stabbed with a knife. Remember
  33. +2
    13 November 2018 05: 10
    Sorry for the old "Liman", sorry for the old dock ... but, admit, the news about the frigate somehow warms the tired heart? Not only in the Russian Federation is drowning, not only we can! Huh?
    1. +1
      13 November 2018 08: 49
      Well, let’s remember Tsushima and burst into tears, together we will pity the Norwegians ... wink
  34. -2
    13 November 2018 06: 16
    I fully agree with the articles. We are constantly looking for a speck in someone else's eye, not noticing the log in our own. From this constant self-promotion, loved ones are already sick. Meanwhile, not a single unit of PR equipment brought to mass production. And no one is responsible for failures with non-combat losses of machinery and equipment.
    War (informational) by war, but scheduled breaks.
  35. -1
    13 November 2018 09: 02
    Yes, you expect more objectivity from VO
  36. 0
    13 November 2018 12: 29
    Quote: Nashorn
    The magazine was what you need! He grabbed articles of a schoolboy. Even tyagomotin with the structures of all kinds of units, tactical wings, headquarters was read easily and with interest. In the news there were even insignificant, at first glance, facts of haulage of aircraft from one base to another.
    One thing was bad: there were very few magazines with non-faded color pages.

    He is not bad now. But if earlier I wrote it out (since 1974 EMNIP), now now I periodically download from the Internet. Articles were written and written by professionals.
  37. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      13 November 2018 15: 13
      Quote: Anatoly Shariy
      Let's discuss Ukraine - as usual, Russian propagandists Kiselev and Solovyov will broadcast on the air

      Let's talk! Get started. laughing
  38. -1
    13 November 2018 15: 24
    Absolutely sound and balanced article. I was very surprised by the number of caps in the comments (the ones that, if anything, we throw at once). We were also surprised by the serious reasoning that PD-50 was flooded, and that it was a hryun with it, a small loss. And it sounded like that, they say, it was specially there, to the bottom, because this is a very delicate move (and it will still hiccups the damned West, because there, on the basis of natural stupidity, they still won't understand hryuna). But the people on the site of puberty came out quite a while, and knowledge is not deprived (as well as logic).
    For an article to the author 5 +. (And about submitting the history of PD-50 as our next victory, to the fact, as someone rightly said, Kiselev and Soloviev are well off).
    1. 0
      14 November 2018 12: 04
      PD-50 is an accident from a completely different category. It's almost like comparing a plane crash and a building crash. Therefore, these two cases cannot be considered even in approximate comparison.

      The accident of the frigate Helge is the direct unprofessionalism of the team, this is not old equipment, and the watchman’s carelessness, and not the fog with the storm, or anything else ... the problem center was specifically on the captain’s bridge.

      And no hatreds!
      Norway - excellent captains and sailors, constantly skillfully spend huge passenger liners and tankers in the narrow fjords, in the most dangerous and difficult conditions.
      How did it happen that they drowned in the native, and to the millimeter familiar waters, the latest combat frigate? - a paradox in principle, but nevertheless, it is an indicator of the quality of training of military personnel.
  39. +3
    13 November 2018 15: 43
    An article of some kind ..... with a sweetheart.
    In the style of "But we kill blacks!" Ugh - not with us, but with them. Well, you get the idea.
    Compare the 50-year-old "Liman" with the gyrocompass of the 50s and the radar of the 60s, with civilian navigators with poor salaries (for some reason they were not taken under the flag) and the newest frigate with the world's best navigators, with electronics almost 22nd century and with perfect damage control tools.
    Somehow not quite decent.
    Yes, and the cattle carrier drove into the "Liman", lying in a drift in the fog and surrounded by other ships.
    And these mediocrity?
    They wanted to sneak under the nose of a bulldozer.
    Do not slip.
    Heroically dumped from a ship, which did not sink.
    Tugs came, pushed the ship to the shore.
    On the stones.
    That finished off.
    Incompetence and cowardice.
    1. 0
      13 November 2018 21: 08
      The tugboats did everything right. In the Bergen Bay, the depths are enormous, not even an anchor. The shore there is almost sheer cliff. The ship losing stability was pushed to it because there simply was no other choice. They took people off, they’ll still build iron.
  40. +1
    13 November 2018 16: 31
    An article for patients on the head of people ... How many times recently have the US destroyers rammed civilian vessels where the newest Zamvolt, etc. The impression that the article was taken from Echo of Moscow or the rain is all the better when everything is bad in Russia, everything falls and breaks .. sad .
  41. 0
    13 November 2018 20: 13
    LIMAN pretty old ship pd-50 floatdock. And the new frigate was super duper stealth
  42. 0
    13 November 2018 20: 22
    The author, when you write about "Liman", it would be good to mention the circumstances of the accident. Lyman did not collide with a livestock truck. He was quietly at anchor, off the main routes, waiting for the English destroyer to take pictures of its characteristics. Horsemen on a cattle truck at full speed rammed it in the middle, almost at a right angle. Of course, a deuce to the officer on duty, which did not provide a safe parking (at least the Guard zone would be activated on the radar), but the fault here is 100% on horsemen.
  43. 0
    14 November 2018 10: 01
    One does not interfere with the other. We rot the enemy and criticize his power.
  44. 0
    14 November 2018 11: 31
    Well, you can immediately say that the comparison is not correct from the word at all!
    If we seriously bother with this comparison:
    The estuary is a reconnaissance ship, warship, but not combat, old as the excrement of a mammoth, already in 1970 ...
    Helge is the newest combat frigate, 2009 (less than 10 years old), with the latest navigation equipment and "the best of the best" at the helm, and in naval practice, the higher the class of the ship, the more serious and more prepared the crew is assigned to it ...
    Conclusion:
    If in the case of Liman this is an indicator of the slovenliness of the auxiliary reconnaissance ship team, then in the case of Helge it is direct unprofessionalism of the command of the warship of the main forces.
    And accordingly, do not try to compare the incomparable.

    It is also not worth ironizing over these cases, because sea accidents have always been and happen periodically in all countries and fleets, and due to the complexity and danger of maritime affairs, they can happen anywhere and with anyone.