Ships of the 22160 project will receive attack helicopters

Project 22160 patrol ships will carry Ka-52K Katran attack helicopters, surface and underwater Drones, reported News.

Two ships of this project - "Vasily Bykov" and "Dmitry Rogachev" - are currently undergoing state trials in Novorossiysk. It was also decided to equip them with Ka-52K Katran helicopters.

It is reported that helicopters will work in close conjunction with the surface and underwater unmanned systems, based on the ships.

The Ka-52K was originally developed for Mistral-type helicopter carriers, they have a folding screw and wing consoles for attaching X-31 / 35 anti-ship missiles. The machine is also armed with 30-mm cannon, blocks of unguided rockets, bombs, guided anti-tank missiles "Attack" or "Whirlwind-1", EW complex.

On board the ships of the project 22160 will also be placed unmanned boats and underwater vehicles designed for reconnaissance and surveillance.

According to military expert Dmitry Boltenkov, the firepower of the Katran will be enough not only to fight pirates and saboteurs, but to conduct more serious operations. If necessary, their rocket armament can put a large ship to the bottom.

According to the newspaper, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation intends to order at least 12 patrolmen of project 22160. As for the ships “Vasily Bykov” and “Dmitry Rogachev” being tested, they should be transferred to the Black Sea the fleet until the end of this year.

Comments

[faiver]

I'd love to know why the Ka-52 onboard guard? there in my Ka-226 is the place ...

[210ox]

Well, helicopters must be based somewhere. Once "Mistral" bye bye ..

[faiver]

Well, the most watchman ....

[hrych]

First of all, this is a mistake in the article, 22160 is not a guard, but a patrol ship far sea zone. And the attack helicopter will not hinder him at all.

[hrych]

Although the patrol ship and patrol ship are sometimes synonymous, 22160 has much more functions and it is definitely an attack ship and it is more like a frigate. Of course, Caspian watchdogs have turned us into shock ships, turning them into missile ships from medium-range missiles, but still they are not ships of the far sea zone and are rather corvettes.

[alexmach]

Well, what a frigate he is, he doesn’t pull on the Corvette, because he does not satisfy the requirement of multifunctionality, well, practically from any side at all.

[hrych]

It is modular in armament and, as necessary, is assembled for different tasks. In terms of displacement, it reaches class 2 frigates, but in terms of seaworthiness it is not inferior to class 1 frigates, and even more so in terms of shock weapons due to UVP: Caliber (i.e. PKO and even the strategic version), Calm (air defense), Rocket- torpedoes (PLO), and, accordingly, an attack helicopter adds opportunities.

[alexmach]

It is modular in armament and, as necessary, is assembled for different tasks.

This is a fiction, they have already written about this many times.

In terms of displacement, it reaches the class 2 frigates, but in terms of seaworthiness it is not inferior to the class 1 frigates, and even more so in terms of shock weapons

Does it happen in nature in general? What would be inferior in displacement and superior in seaworthiness and armament? Do not see any contradictions?

Gauges (i.e. FFP and even a strategic option),

That's just the containers are only in cartoons, but let's say

Calm (air defense)

There is no calm there, it is flexible in the best case. And if there was Calm - there would be no such autonomy of swimming. And you won’t put Calm there in any container. (The radar does not interfere with the container, not to mention the control equipment and operators)

Well and accordingly attack helicopter adds opportunities.

For blows to whom? landings support or what? And what kind of landings?

[musorg]

And the corvette’s armament can’t understand what?

[hrych]

Quote: musorg

And the corvette’s armament can’t understand what?

With Caliber there is a tactical strike, at a certain moment turning into a strategic one. A kind of revolution occurred precisely here. Previously, this was the level of strike weapons available only to the cruiser, well, no less than a destroyer.

[Machito]

We decided to attach the homeless Katrans.

[dvina71]

Quote: faiver

I'd love to know why the Ka-52 patrol guard on board?

Then..

JSC “Concern Radioelectronic Technologies” in 2015 announced the possibility of placing the Kh-35UE on board the decked version of the Ka-52K helicopter in case of upgrading the airborne radar. This will increase the helicopter detection range by 2 times, which is almost 200 km.

[spec.78]

Ka-226, if my memory serves me, is a purely civilian helicopter. Deep modernization of the Ka-26, which had interchangeable modules (passenger cabin, chemical tank, cargo compartment, etc.). He does not pull on the military in any way. Ka-29 can still be, but the Alligator is cooler

[faiver]

dear, this is a patrol ship, not a destroyer ...

[faiver]

and about the civilian Ka-226, I wonder why they are bought by our Defense Ministry and the Indian army?

[alexmach]

Not the army but the FSB, as I recall. And they don’t buy, but planned for their watchmen.

[faiver]

it’s the army, they have about fifty of them

[DarkMatter]

Quote: dvina71

in case of upgrading the airborne radar

Was it already or is it planned in the next year or two?

[dvina71]

Quote: DarkMatter

Was it already or is it planned in the next year or two?

Already
http://in24.org/technology/33684?utm_source=warfiles.ru

[DarkMatter]

I really do not like that site, everyone posts in a row, including every canoe being pulled from everywhere. Nevertheless, I looked at what they wrote there, there is not a word about the modernization of the airborne radar.

[dvina71]

Quote: DarkMatter

I really do not like that site, everyone posts in a row, including every canoe being pulled from everywhere

Think left photo?

[DarkMatter]

No, of course
The point is not to stick a rocket or even a mock. If the photo ka-60 from the 80s, but to the point, 20 years, not a single one was! But I'm not even talking about this, so, by the way ...
It's about radarthat only after modernization it will be possible to raise the launch range to 200+ km. The article does not write about this modernization. What difference does it make in the photo, even if the helicopter can launch a missile for 50 km, but can it be used to its full capacity now, tomorrow or nothing will be modernized again, and journalists and amateurs everywhere will therefore draw circles on maps around with a radius of 260 km ? That's why I asked

in case of upgrading the airborne radar

Was it already or is it planned in the next year or two?

[bayard]

Donetsk.
I came across a publication that in terms of modernization, the Ka-52 is going to adapt the radar from the MiG-35. If this worked out (and I see no reason why it didn’t work out), the X-35, like the X-31, can be used at their regular distance.
If someone doubts about the power of a standard power generating plant, then I think it will be new too, possibly from the same MiG-35.
Such modernization has been requested for a long time, and I proposed it when the questions about the armament of the Mistrals were still being discussed, in terms of providing air defense based on the Ka-52. In the impact version it will turn out even better.

[Botanologist]

He has enough kerosene on board to let the Ka-52 fly around the ship a couple of times.

[bayard]

Donetsk.
Corvettes, pr. 22160 were originally created for anti-piracy missions and their weapons complex is not suitable for war ... But with the Ka-52K, its combat characteristics grow very much.
And this is good . And the fact that it was decided to expand the series from 6 to 12 is very good. Moreover, with engines for them, it seems, there are no special problems.
And on the account of the Ka-226 - this is not even funny. He except that patrol functions with a pair of machine guns course will not pull on more.

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: faiver

I'd love to know why the Ka-52 patrol guard on board? there in my Ka-226 is the place ..

as for me, a drone is needed there, and not a turntable + shell m = corvette standards.

[Genry]

Quote: faiver

I'd love to know why the Ka-52 patrol guard on board?

The ship is intended for anti-piracy activities. Therefore, autonomy is 2 months. A helicopter dramatically increases the efficiency and patrol area.

Quote: faiver

there, in my opinion, the Ka-226 is the place ...

He can not resist pirate boats with possible fire from MANPADS or machine guns.

[faiver]

He can not resist pirate boats with possible fire from MANPADS or machine guns.

- yeah, and the "katran" pzrk on the drum chtol?
the helicopter’s task is to detect the pirate, and there artillery works ...

[Genry]

Quote: faiver

and "katranu" pzrk on the drum chtol?

There is a complex of protection.

Quote: faiver

helicopter task to spot a pirate

The helicopter's task is to deliver weapons and use them, and more often just to demonstrate.

Quote: faiver

and there artillery works ...

And at what range are your guns and how to ensure a hit?

[faiver]

we will consider that we have different concepts for using weapons

[Botanologist]

rate of fire (120 rounds per minute), firing range (up to 12 km), work on all types of targets (aviation, UAVs, ships). It’s quite a gun. The air target was shot down easily.

[Genry]

Quote: Botanologist

rate of fire (120 rounds per minute), firing range (up to 12 km) ...
.... Aerial target shot down easily.

What are you writing about ?? Wrong answer?

[Botanologist]

About artillery on 22160.

[Genry]

Quote: Botanologist

About artillery on 22160.

And the defeat of targets for a couple of hundred kilometers is discussed.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: faiver

I'd love to know why the Ka-52 onboard guard? there in my Ka-226 is the place ...

But then, why does the fleet need a ship with a displacement of 1500 tons with a single AK-176. They added one illiquid to another - in an attempt to somehow increase the firepower of 22160.

[faiver]

agree with you

[alexmach]

I thought more about anti-submarine helicopters ...

[Horse, people and soul]

To guard Estonia so that it does not run away and does not jump.



Just one turntable is enough.

[abc_alex]

The Ka-226 has very vague prospects. Due to the fact that it was originally designed for foreign engines, the probability of launching it in a series is now extremely small. And there are simply no other marine machines in the series today.

[Yodzakura]

Well, the money allocated for the development of K-52 to

[Wiruz]

It would be better who would explain why pr.22160 towed GAS in the absolute absence of TA and VPU for PLUR.
In general, some kind of ambiguous ship turns out. It seems like the potential is high, but we will see all the trump cards only on further serial ones (if we see). They say it was seen Bending (so-so fart), but this is not accurate; and besides her, no ZRAK / ZAK is observed. It would be more reasonable to arrange a pair of AK-630 on-board.
SAM "Shtil-1" prophesied to him. Yes, I agree, such an anti-aircraft missile system is clearly superfluous for a ship of this class. But still? Or was the placement of "Calm" on the models only to attract foreign customers? Then it seems like it’s not quite a patrolman, but almost a corvette, and by their standards we can say a "frigate".
I won’t be surprised if, after five years, on the basis of the patrol ship pr.22160, a full-fledged corvette will be created to replace the suffering series of pr.2038 (how much is there)

[dvina71]

Quote: Wiruz

pr.22160

This is a PATROL ship.

Patrol - patrol, m. (Fr. Patrouille) (military). Same as patrol; a small armed detachment in motion to inspect the area, maintain order or check security.
Explanatory dictionary Ushakov

[Wiruz]

This is a PATROL ship.

They told you that you are a master of concise, but at the same time comprehensive answers? No? I won’t tell you that either

[dvina71]

Quote: Wiruz

I won’t tell you that either

I don’t need anything from you ..

[Alexey RA]

Quote: dvina71

This is a PATROL ship.

Why does the Navy need a "clean" patrol ship? What do we have - such a rich fleet that it can contain a separate ship with a GAS, for the operation of which a separate ship with submarine destruction weapons and a separate ship with air defense means are needed?
There is no need to nod at the NATO countries with their "one-gun" corvettes and patrolmen - behind these sub-ships there is a normal fleet with full-fledged new serial EM and FR URO.
In fact, the only naval task for this cuttlefish is the anti-piracy service in Somalia, in return for the full-time Navy ships on duty there. All the other voiced tasks of this patrol ship of the Navy are not naval - they are the tasks of the Pskr, relating to a completely different department.

By the way. SW. mina wrote that due to the restriction on the displacement specified in the TOR, 22160 has problems with seaworthiness. Non-navigable patrolman of the far sea zone - how is it?

[dvina71]

Quote: Alexey RA

Why does the Navy need a "clean" patrol ship?

Well, apparently the tasks of the fleet have expanded, it’s not cheap to drive a BOD or RK something like pirates .. And you will not be able to control the nearest approaches to the base either. So they built a patrolman with open architecture. They pushed the ASGs right away, most likely due to the fact that it would take a lot of alterations to the hull if you made the ASGs modular .. Everything you need on deck is optional .. from air defense systems to container calibers. Where, by the way, include missile submarines.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: dvina71

Well, apparently the tasks of the fleet have expanded, it’s not cheap to drive a BOD or PK something like pirates ..

We have such a rich fleet. that we can build a specialized patrol ship to perform a single task?

Quote: dvina71

And the near approaches to the base, too, you will not control them ..

The OVR ship needs means of destruction of the targets discovered by it. Established means, preferably permanently fixed. Because the fashionable concept of weapons modularity somehow misses the fact that weapons require trained operators. And without systematic training on standard equipment, talking about preparedness is useless. A universal team will do everything equally badly.
Oh yes, normal close air defense is also needed. The minimum is "Pantsir-M".

Quote: dvina71

Everything on deck is optional .. from air defense systems to container calibers. Where, by the way, include missile submarines.

Yeah ... one place for the module. Either air defense or anti-aircraft defense.

Our Navy does not need to think about patrolmen, but about how to replace the IPCs built back in the USSR, which are the basis of the naval squadron. These ships are already under 30 years or more, and every year they do not grow younger.

[alexmach]

We have such a rich fleet. that we can build a specialized patrol ship to perform a single task? wink

And they were laid even when the shipbuilding program looked very rosy.

It’s hard to disagree with the rest.

[Grits]

The ship turned out to be very ambiguous and incomprehensible, judging by the numerous responses and comments. Modularity and versatility, I think, are extremely harmful here. it is not a tank that can be made universal.
Imagine a picture. The ship was assigned the task of anti-submarine defense. So he needs to urgently return to the base and there specialists change modules for a certain time. Which, by the way, on this base should already be stored and ready. Interestingly, will these modules be present at other bases or will the ship be tied only to a specific base? Then he goes to complete the task. And here, Oops! It turns out that the crew can perform shock tasks or air defense tasks on the old module with another module and another publication. What then? Then we change the crew, which is sharpened specifically for these modules, equipment and this task. But should the crew also wait in the base? In short, it turns out to be a mess with logistics and crew training.

[jonht]

Regarding the integrated ASG, I note that the presence of a helipad and hangar allows you to take an anti-submarine helicopter on board and close the issue of weapons against submarines. I hope the explanation is not required for weapons (in the arsenal of the helicopter - torpedoes and depth charges).

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Wiruz

who would explain why pr.22160 towed GAS in the absolute absence of TA and VPU for PLUR.

but who will understand them .... from this building it would be necessary to do an anti-submarine boat and not to know what! By the way, they can optionally put calm1 - if it is embodied in iron - you get a good corvette

[Wiruz]

if it is embodied in iron - you get a good corvette

So these thoughts visited me

[iaroslav.mudryi]

Quote: Wiruz

.... Then it seems like it’s already not quite a patrolman, but almost a corvette ...

PC Ave. 22160 can be attributed to the class of "reinforced" corvettes.

VO has already done a detailed analysis of 22160 pr. Here:
https://topwar.ru/91585-korvety-pr-22160-malozametnye-patrulnye-korabli-s-vozmozhnostyami-esminca-vsled-za-soobrazitelnym.html

[alexmach]

Or was the placement of "Calm" on the models only to attract foreign customers?

There was a variant of the Calm installation, but in the fat year, the MO chose autonomy instead of air defense to perform those very anti-piracy tasks.

[mark1]

The Ka-52 is good, it increases striking power, responsiveness, etc. etc. (well, not with pirates, he really does fight) but ... all this is devalued by the lack of a full-fledged air defense system, well, let not the "Calm" on 24 launchers as they threatened, but at least the good old "Dagger" in cellular launchers without drums.

[Wiruz]

Well, not with the pirates he really fight

Well, actually yes. This is not the only, but one of his main tasks. So at least they claimed

[mark1]

Quote: Wiruz

This is not the only, but one of his main tasks. So at least they claimed

It was a long time ago, the priorities in the current state of the fleet have changed (at least they should have). And platform 22160 is excellent, if everything that we promised to push was pushed into it, we would at least plug the hole with the "admirals" pr 11356 and maybe partly with 22350.

[Random]

Quote: mark1

if they pushed everything that they promised to push into it

That's it....."if only"....

[mark1]

Quote: Random

....."if only"....

This is our credo ... after "always" ...

[Vadmir]

And platform 22160 is excellent, if everything that we promised to push was pushed into it, we would at least plug the hole with the "admirals" pr 11356 and maybe partially with 22350.

The problem is that it is modular, you can install Caliber there, but without the air defense towed by the ASU and the helicopter, you can install Calm, but then without the Caliber, helicopter and ASU, you can place the helicopter, but without the Caliber, Calm and ASU, you can install the towed Gas, but then again without a helicopter, Caliber and Calm.
And instead of all this, you can install a hangar for a boat and scare pirates.
In addition to anti-piracy missions, the purpose of this ship is becoming unclear, it can do everything, but it can’t do anything at the same time.
Such a tangle of contradictions.
Well, he will not be able to replace the ships of projects 11356, 22350 and even 20380 because they are universal, but he does not.

[mark1]

Quote: Vadmir

Such a tangle of contradictions.

Yes, everything will fit there, only autonomy will suffer. And she is already hyper ...

[Vadmir]

This is not so, the container with replaceable modules is placed in one single place, theoretically it is possible to place a helicopter together with any of the modules, but then the helicopter will not have a hangar.

[mark1]

Quote: Vadmir

a container with replaceable modules is placed in one single place

A slot with a missile defense system (and possibly a PLUR) to another place, and so yes, either a helicopter with suspended weapons, or "Caliber" (but why would he then a helicopter?) And reconnaissance and control center can be operated by drones.

[alexmach]

A slot with SAM (and you can PLUR) to another place

And a radar slot ...

[alexmach]

This is not so, the container with replaceable modules is placed in one single place, theoretically it is possible to place a helicopter together with any of the modules, but then the helicopter will not have a hangar.

There is still enough space under the deck. A helicopter and something else (GAS) may also fit in. I don’t install air defense in my opinion ...

[mashinist]

Do not escalate ... only the SAM, of course, is not visible

[mark1]

Quote: mashinist

only air defense systems of course not visible

Front seat for air defense systems near the AU. Or, as it is now, there’s a marines kubrick.

[mashinist]

type on the 3rd and then there will be calm?

[mark1]

Quote: mashinist

type on the 3rd

this is your logical chain ... I would like ...

[mashinist]

I beguiled with 22800 there from the 3rd carapace m instead of ak 630 will be ... it turns out the main working tool in fact it is a helicopter with ptrk and X35U, i.e. this is a kind of helicopter carrier with one helicopter))) There is a gun and it is a carrier of cruise missiles. But there is no CEO. Although for his purposes, she probably can be neglected .... Damn, well, at least they gave the SAM, otherwise there’s nothing to fight back, wait like ... until they knock him down. Instead of a turret, a buoyan or a karakurt air defense system has a displacement of up to 1000 tons, and this one has 1500! By the way, how many marines can not accommodate?

[Vadmir]

That's right, the gauges are in the modular compartment, the helicopter is pushed forward, it cannot take off with open hatches, it does not have a hangar.
Instead of Gauges, you can install another module (Calm, towed GAS or hangar., Again, two types, either for a helicopter or for an armored boat.

[alexmach]

you can install Calm, but then without Caliber

How can I install Calm there? Where? In the deck space or what? And the radars there too?

[Vadmir]

Look at the photo a little higher, if you remove the Gauges then you can install Calm in their place.

[alexmach]

Well, great. Do you install air defense system radars in their place in the below deck space?

[Vadmir]

The radar is installed in any case, it is stationary - Positive-M1, the same as on the ships of project 11356.
Here are its features:
Positive-ME radars provide the solution to the following tasks:
lighting of air and surface conditions;
detection and tracking of air (including small, low flying, diving) and surface targets;
detection and tracking of targets in designated sectors and optimization of operating modes depending on the interference environment;
determination of the nationality of the detected targets on the principle of "friend or foe" using identification equipment and built-in antennas;
determination of coordinates and motion parameters of the followed targets;
classification of targets followed by trajectory signs;
assessment of the degree of danger of the objectives followed;
automatic target allocation and display of the plan with the possibility of its adjustment;
output of target designation data to mating ship systems;
automated control of operating modes and health monitoring;
documentation of the results of information processing for the goals followed, decisions worked out, the state of the interfaced systems;
training personnel on simulated radar conditions.

[alexmach]

Indeed there is a radar. Why, then, Calm into the deck? The launcher could be embedded in a regular place before the superstructure. Would increase the efficiency of use.
As I understand it, Calm has a missile with a semi-guidance. I wonder if you need a radar target illumination?

The ship is actually interesting. It is clear that everything that is written in the nomenclature of armaments cannot be installed on it at the same time. It is clear that modularity has its drawbacks. It’s not clear how this ship will be used in practice ...

[mashinist]

that okay with that calm .. but at least the armor m in front of the superstructure somehow shoved at least some sort of protection

[Samaks]

or it may not be possible to set everything all at once since there is no possibility, but to build separately in this case a series of PLO, shock, patrol, air defense. Use accordingly in groups.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Wiruz

Well, actually yes. This is not the only, but one of his main tasks. So at least they claimed

Heh heh heh ... the problem is that in addition to the fight against pirates, all other tasks voiced for 22160 are not included in the competence of the Navy - these are the tasks of the PKKR in peace and war (during mobilization) time.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: mark1

but at least the good old "Dagger" in cellular PU without drums.

better shell M ....

[Alex777]

but at least the good old "Dagger" in cellular PU without drums.

Cannot be a Dagger in cellular PU:
1) it is so old that it does not exist at all.
2) the drum is needed to roll the rocket before launch (like a tower on the TOP).
3) 9M100 would be useful to this ship.
All the questions that colleagues have are dictated by the misunderstanding that this ship, in wartime, will never be alone. Only as part of KUG IMHO. And so, as a remote source of various information for the KUG control ship, it is quite suitable. Well, he can fight against saboteurs.

[mark1]

Quote: Alex777

Cannot be a Dagger in cellular PU:

Maybe there are no obstacles to the flight of thought. even money is needed very little - stuffed tapes from "TORA" under the deck and ... something like that. He's not old - no orders. But 9M100 is also good (and is he that is?).

Quote: Alex777

this ship, in wartime, will never be alone

How many times in history have they been burned on similar postulates?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mark1

Maybe there are no obstacles to the flight of thought. even money is needed very little - stuffed tapes from "TORA" under the deck and ... something like that. He's not old - no orders.

Hmm ... if the industry could make the "Dagger", then on the "Kulakov" during the repair they would finally put a regular bow air defense system, of which it was deprived from the moment of construction. And not this misunderstanding - "Gibku" - that now flaunts on the site originally intended for the nasal AP "Dagger".
By the way, "Dagger" was difficult even for the military-industrial complex of the USSR - the empty sites of the AP on Project 1155 are an example of this.

[mark1]

On "Fearless" pr 11540 there are no "Uranus", but on "Yaroslav" there are ...
Morality is not a matter of industry but the final word for the Customer. Decisions are made by our specially trained admirals and their curators like Yu. Borisov.

[Alexey-74]

Taking into account the fact that the Katran program must be implemented, the Ministry of Defense decided to reinforce the patrols with these helicopters. Well, at least so.

[Wiruz]

Not really. As stated earlier, as it was later confirmed in "Military Acceptance", the main purpose of these ships is to protect civilian ships in areas of pirate activity and patrol sea trade routes. There, for these purposes, there is also an armored boat (two, if I'm not mistaken), and so, they decided to equip a patrolman with a helicopter. Air support, reconnaissance, all things ...

[Aleks2048]

Apparently, Kuzyu, our authorities and the fleet do not see themselves floating even in the future, and so they begin to fuck everything that’s worth it.

[lucul]

have a folding screw warehouse and wing consoles for fastening

Correct.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Tryndets full and final. I also propose the modernized T-72Б3 to drag along the bottom on a rope

[faiver]

five points, you can’t say better

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Tryndets full and final. I also propose the modernized T-72Б3 to drag along the bottom on a rope

Come on, just met two loneliness ©.
One unnecessary thing was put on another not very necessary one - what if something acceptable turns out?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey RA

One unnecessary thing was put on another not very necessary

Well, why should they not put a statue of Tsereteli on Nabiullina instead?

[kplayer]

They survived! ... There were no deck helicopters (missile defense carriers, anti-ship missiles), why exactly a specialized "striker" with armor protection, which is scarce for ground forces?

[Steel falcon]

Such helicopters are needed to destroy tanks and to drive bearded rabble through the forests, and not to look for submarines and jam fish. Ka-27 is more appropriate and cheaper.