The 3 Caucasian Corps is on the path of a strategic hurricane. Part of 2. The backbone of the army group

125
Acting in the interests of the 3 Army, the 3 Caucasian Army Corps had to perform two combat missions: to help keep the Bieč area and attack in the Zenzkowice – Bobova sector in order to knock out enemy units that had broken through at the junction between the 9 and 10 army enclosures. Such a duality of the task set by the army command has already predetermined the inadequacy of the use of the front reserve. The situation was aggravated by the introduction of the corps into battle in echelon - “packs”. It was not possible to create a powerful strike fist. At the same time, the difficult situation of the 10 Army Corps predetermined the need for the early introduction of fresh forces into the battle - without such support, the army was in danger of a catastrophe.

The materials of the German Reichsarchive report on the course of the battles of April 20: “General von Emmich (infantry general O. von Emmich - commander of the 10 Army Corps - AO) ordered the 11 Bavarian and 119 Infantry Divisions ... to continue the attack from the combat position they had won. The 20 Infantry Division is supposed to arrive at the moment the attack begins ... Intelligence carried out on the morning of May 3 (i.e. April 20, old style - A.O.), reported ... that the main line of resistance (the front edge of the defense) of the enemy is located south of r. Ropa ... north of the flow of the river. Lubaczówka ... General von Francois (General of the infantry G. von Francois - commander of the 41 of the reserve corps - A. O.) planned to continue the 3 attack in May and press on the right flank of his XXXXI reserve corps in order to accelerate advancement in the Ropa Valley ... Under the onslaught of the Austro-Hungarian VI Corps, the enemy left the Moshtenitsa section at dawn on 3. ... The commander-in-chief, Lieutenant-General von Arz, therefore believed that his corps could set itself a broader goal, Olzhinka, the high command of the army and the high command of the neighboring guard corps agreed with this. At noon ... the Austro-Hungarian infantry had already approached the Krzymenna (371) - Rosembark ... line ... Even General Baron von Plettenberg (infantry general KF von Plettenberg - commander of the Guard Corps - A. O.) I expected further retreat of the enemy 3 in May and ordered the body of the guards to continue the pursuit ... The enemy counterattacks ... failed. But the enemy seemed determined to continue the resistance. At noon, the 2-I Guards Division was ordered to attack ... the first Guards infantry brigade reached the Olzhinka-Tukhovka line ...
12 hours 20 min. The commander of 11 of the German army gave the following order: “Tomorrow, it is planned to overcome the Vislok in the area of ​​Zmigrod - Kolaschitsa ... routes: Emmikha corps south of Zmigrod, XXXXI reserve corps in Osik-Dembovich district, VI Army Corps Jaslo .... The 19 Infantry Division, an army reserve, today must reach the Turgis-Biskupy-Ripenik Strasovsky area. ”



A German source, noting “strong artillery fire” and “Russian infantry in strong positions” after 15 hours of X minutes, states: “without proper support of artillery, it is impossible to demand an attack from troops worn out by heavy transitions in raw bad roads; ... they remain in the same combat positions. "

By the end of the day, the Germans were detained in positions at the r. Ropa: “From the opposite bank of the Ropa, the enemy effectively flanked the height east of Korczyn ... Only a planned offensive with heavy artillery fire could succeed. Heavy artillery, given the road conditions ... could go into action over the next day. Until then, the gravity of the battle ... lay solely on the shoulders of field artillery. On the Vyslok and at the height of Korchin, the enemy had excellent observant artillery positions ... the attacking German infantry suffered greatly from strong massive defensive fire. ”

Lt. Col. L. von Rothkirch wrote about one of the episodes of these battles: “... located on the position of the 10 Glynic, see the gun battery shelling Beech, in order to prevent the approach of reserves there. It seemed that, thanks to the shelling, the top of the mountain and its slopes had to be completely destroyed and all life on them became extinct. But it was not so in reality: countless Russian machine guns soon came to life again, while the artillery, in view of the closeness of the distance from the advancing infantry, was to move its fire to the rear. The fierce battle continued for several hours. ”

The German source stated: “The counter-attacks of the Russians in the valley of the Rop did not change anything. By evening, the German infantry stormed the last positions of the enemy. At the top of the mountain the bayonet battle once again broke out. ... To use the success achieved in hard struggle, the forces were no longer there. "

Mr. Kellerman wrote that the events of the 1 half of the day on April 20 seemed to justify the expectations of the German command. But the situation changed dramatically as soon as the 11 army formations approached the 2 position of the Russians - they met with no less stubborn resistance than the day before, and were forced to resort to artillery fire. The task on 21 April was: to press the Russians, and try to master the crossings across the river. Visloka - earlier than the Russians introduce fresh forces.

In 20 hours of April 20, the commander of the Russian 3 army reported to the higher command that at night and today the enemy stubbornly attacked, pressing the left flank of the 9 and the center of the 10 body - 9-i went to the line of Karvodrzh - Tukhov-Ryglitz, and 10 th retreated to the line Alpina - Sipetnitsa - Kharilova - Bednarka - vys. Magura. The commander decided to take advantage of the 3-m Caucasian Corps - and to reject the enemy beyond the line of Alpina - Volya-Tseklinsk and to the west - at Zenzkowice - Mushrooms. It was ordered: the 9 Corps, together with the attached troops, to hold their positions, to act actively on the flanks - in order to drive the enemy off the lower Dunajec, contributing to the operations of the 10 and 3 Caucasian Corps; detachment of General Volodchenko (3 infantry regiment, 3 regiment 16-Cavalry Division and 4 regiment 3-th Don Division, supported by 2 horse batteries) to operate at the interface between adjacent flanks 9-th and 10-Corps, interacting with them, and vigorously facilitate the operations of the 10 and 3 Caucasian corps; the group of General Irmanov (10 Corps with attached parts and 3 Caucasus Corps) should decisively attack the enemy on the front of Alpina - Biecz-Volya-Tseklinsk, firmly holding on the left flank at the height of Magura; The 24 Corps, actively working on the right flank, helps to maintain the height of Magura, ensuring the path of the Hornbeam - Smigrod; firmly hold the positions held on the left flank of the 24 corps and the other corps in the Carpathians. The headquarters of the group of General Irmanov to be in Jaslo. Army headquarters in Jaslo.

In fact, the 3-th Caucasian Army Corps became the backbone of the army group (3-th Caucasian Army, 10-th Army Corps and attached parts), designed to solve the most important operational task - to stabilize the situation on the front of the 3-th army, localizing Gorlitsky breakthrough. The detachment of General Volodchenko was, acting at the junction of the 9-th and 10-th army corps, to contribute as much as possible to the performance of the combat mission assigned to the group. The effectiveness of the decision taken by the army command was significantly reduced due to the fact that the combat task of the 3 Caucasian Army Corps was formulated indefinitely: the compound did not indicate the starting line and the start time of the offensive, the interaction of the already fighting 10 Army and the only arrived 3 Caucasian Army was not organized enclosures.


The commander of the 3 Caucasian Army Corps, General of Artillery V.A. Irmanov, and the Commander of the 21 Infantry Division, Major General K. G. Nekrasov, among the Cavaliers of the 84 Infantry Shirvan His Majesty's Regiment. Chronicles of War 1914 - 15 No. 55.

The concentrated attack of the army of A. Mackensen was opposed by the disparate actions of the corps of the 3 Army, and even introduced into the battle in parts. If the battles of 19 and April 20 were absorbed by the army reserve, which was spent on pouring into the combat areas of the fighting first line corps, then 21 — April 22 — was prepared for the frontline reserve.

By the evening of April 20, the 10 Army Corps conducted heavy battles: the enemy with heavy chains, supported by hurricane artillery fire, continued to advance, but again and again, met with rifle and machine-gun fire of the Russian infantry, withdrew heavy losses. Particularly fierce battles took place in the 61 and 9 sectors of the infantry divisions. With the onset of darkness, the corps went to the front of Olszyna - Sipetnitsa - Kharilova - Bedvarka - the height of Magura.

In 23 hours of 35 minutes, the commander of the 3 Caucasian Army Corps gave the following order to parts of his group: “1) At night, from 19 to 20, and today the enemy continued his attacks and pressed the left flank of the 9 corps and the center of the 10 corps the first one went to the line of Karvodře, Tukhov, Ryglitz, and the second one goes to the line Olpina, Sipetnica, Kharklova, height 319, Bednarka, height Magura (height 847); on the remaining sections of the front of the corps, they retained their position yesterday.
2) The army commander decided, by going over to the offensive, to reject the enemy beyond the line of Alpina, Volya-Tseklinska and further to the west in the general direction of Zenkovice, Mushrooms. The 10 Army Corps passes into my submission; To the right of us north of Olpina, there is a detachment of General Volodchenko, to the left, south of the height of 847 (Magura), part of the 24 corps.
3) The subordinate group of troops of the 3 Caucasian Army Corps and the 10 Army Corps I order:
a) Lieutenant General Protopopov (N. I. Protopopov - Commander of the 10 Army Corps - A.O..) with units of the 31, 61 and 63 infantry divisions with their artillery to attack the enemy in front of their front, north of the Jaslo, Biecz highway.
b) Lieutenant-General Artemyev (V.V. Artemyev - Head of the 52 Infantry Division - A.O.) with the 52 th Infantry Division entrusted to it (without the 2 battalions) and with units of the 9 Infantry Division located in the area from r. Ropa to high. 319, west of the Mansion, at dawn to attack the enemy in the lane between the lines: Jaslo, Biech highway, der. Cave church and high. 319, Voitova, Libusha, Mshanka. The 3-th Caucasian Mortar Artillery Division remains at the disposal of Lieutenant General Artemyev.
c) Major General Nekrasov (Konstantin G. Nekrasov - Commander of the 21 Infantry Division - A. O.) with three regiments of the division entrusted to him (without the 2 battalions) and units of the 9 and 81-th infantry divisions, located on the front of the highest. 319, Wola Tseklinska, vys. 847, at dawn to attack the enemy on the front height. 319, Bednark, firmly holding the enemy on its left flank south of Bednark. 1 th driving mountain artillery division remains at the disposal of Major General Nekrasov.
d) The 2 battalions of the 21 Infantry Division and the 2 battalions of the 52 Infantry Division make up my reserve, become a village. Tshinitsa ...
e) 3-th Hopersky Cossack regiment to remain in Jaslo.
4) The headquarters of the group entrusted to me is in Jaslo ... ”

The 3 Caucasian Corps is on the path of a strategic hurricane. Part of 2. The backbone of the army group
The commander of the 21 Infantry Division, Major General Nekrasov KG

21 April is the decisive day in the battle of Zigrod.

It was on that day that the command of the army and the front placed high hopes on the counter-offensive of the group of General Irmanov. Thus, in the recording of the conversation of the Chief of Staff of the South-Western Front, Lieutenant-General V.M. Dragomirov and Quartermaster-General of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, General of Infantry, Yu.N. Danilov, from April 21 have the following words: “... the enemy puts pressure on us significant forces; Today, the Caucasian Corps is being introduced, after which it will be possible to say how much the position there will be strengthened ... The reinforcements sent and assembled cannot influence the outcome of the struggle to the west of the Vistula River ... Only the participation of the 3 Caucasian Corps, introduced today, will clarify this issue from the positive or negative side. ”

The fact that the actions of the group of General Irmanov were decisive was proved by the lines in the order for the 9 Army Corps at 10 hours 20 minutes: “Today the 10 Corps with the arrived divisions of the 3 Caucasian Corps turns into a decisive offensive in the direction of Zenzkowice, Gribov ".

In 11 hours of 20 minutes, the commander of the 3 army issued an order in which the group of General Irmanov was assigned the following tasks: “The group of General Irmanov should cover Yaslo, occupying a line along the r. Viskloki on its left bank, starting from the crossing der. Blazhkova to the village Samoklenski, where to enter into a close relationship with the right flank of the 24 corps. "

In the first half of the day, the enemy attacked in the 9 Infantry Division, and after 12 hours, the 21 Infantry Division of the 3 Caucasian Corps advanced to the front. The 9 Infantry Division, supported by units of the 3 Caucasian Corps, not only resisted the pressure of the enemy, but also, together with the 21 division, launched an offensive. Initially, the offensive developed successfully. So: "58 th Infantry Regiment (from the composition of the Kneisl Corps - A.O..) attacked Dzielc. The regiment, which suffered greatly from almost flanking artillery fire from Ostra Ha, was surrounded from the northeast by the advancing Russian infantry and thrown back in a southwesterly direction. Apparently, the fight was pretty hard ... ".

But after the enemy entered the battle of fresh reserves, the Russian units retreated to Dembovets. However, the situation has been stabilized for some time. Thus, the operational document from the 13 hours of the 20 minutes reported that if the 31 and 61 infantry divisions were fighting hard at the front, and their situation was difficult, “At the front of the 9 division and parts attached to it, the enemy does not press. "

However, the subsequent withdrawal of the 9 and 21 infantry divisions led to the gap between the 10 and 24 army corps.

Counted on the support of Caucasians and 31-I Infantry Division. Thus, the order for the division in 5 hours 30 minutes read: “Attack the enemy today at dawn, straight in front of you, having the immediate task to seize our position yesterday, then the day before yesterday: and develop further success in the general direction of the left flank on 409, 437, and right - in close connection with the detachment of General Volodchenko. To the left of us will be the 61 Division and the fresh units of General Irmanov's 3 Caucasian Corps, which leads the entire operation .... ”

The 52 Infantry Division was to support the 61 Infantry Division of the 10 Army Corps. The order of the commander of the 3 of the Caucasian Army Corps of the 52 Infantry Division in the 13 hours of 30 minutes prescribed: “... on going to the left (north) bank of the r. Rops to attack and attack the enemy in the lane between the Bunchal line, Sventsany, Lipye (height 425) from the north and the south - the Sedlisky line, Gossarian, Bmnarova, Rosembark, subjugating all parts of this sector ”. The division, in the evening advancing to the Shergips, took upon itself the detachments of the 61-th Infantry Division under the onslaught of the enemy.

The document records the situation that had developed by the 21 hour at this combat station: “... about 7 hour. evenings on the left flank began the offensive part of the 52 division ... The head of the 52 division about 6 hour. in the evening, he arrived at the location of the 61 division and took command of all the units in combat at the Svencana, Sipetnica section. ”


1-I battery of the 3-th Caucasian Mortar Artillery Division. Negative number 935. State archive of the Saratov region. From the personal collection of the author.

L. von Rothkirch wrote: “The Russian commander-in-chief managed to bring strong reinforcements for the reinforcement of the considerably weakened 3 of the Russian army. Driven by rail to Jaslo, she attacked mainly on the center and left wing of the German active army, while the troops marching from the Carpathian Mountains hit Emmikha’s corps. Soon it was possible to establish, by the newly arrived units, their belonging to various corps: this was how the units of the III Caucasian Corps, which stood at the Old Sambora, were transferred here ... ”

3-I Caucasian Cossack Division supported the actions of the detachment of General Volodchenko. The detachment fought with varying success. Thus, the 2 dismounted hundreds of 32 of the Don Cossack Regiment, along with hundreds of dismounted hundreds of regiments of the 3 of the Don Cossack Division, took two lines of trenches at the height of 507 near the village of Sivashev. In 16 hours 30 minutes 3-I Caucasian Cossack Division received the order: "Due to the extremely difficult position of the detachment of General Volodchenko and the categorical demands of the army headquarters, I order the 3-th Caucasian Cossack Division and 70-th Infantry Division, starting from the Tukhov region, to go by all means a decisive attack on the Tukhov-Zhurava front, directing the main blow to the height of Dobroshin-Zhurava. Execution is immediate and irrevocable. ”


Chief of the 3 Caucasian Cossack Division Lt. Gen. P. Helmitsky

Nevertheless, the situation at the divisional division, supported by the units of the 3 of the Caucasian Army Corps, was hard by the end of the day.

Thus, the report of the chief of the 61 Infantry Division in the 22 hour contained the following lines: “After the battle, the troops of the detachment entrusted to me settled along the line: the northern slope of the height. 306, height between der. Schetnitsa and vys. 392, huts der. Sventsany and vys. 370. In other words, they are located along an arc, the open side of which faces east. The danger of this situation lies in the fact that the right flank hangs in the air and can be easily bypassed in a breakthrough formed between the detachment and the 31 Infantry Division. ” It was noted that (approximately) remains in the ranks: in Lukowski shelf - 6 officers and 160 lower ranks in siedlecki shelf 5 officers and 150 lower ranks in Kholmsk shelf - 5 officers and 200 lower ranks, in the Danube Regiment - 4 officer and 120 of the lower ranks, in the Krasnostava regiment - 6 officers and 120 of the lower ranks and in the Stauchansk regiment - 1760 lower ranks. People are overworked to the point that they are almost asleep on the go. It was stated that if the 52-division had come earlier, the whole squad would have been able to hold out. Captured near 600 prisoners. Starting testified to the valor of the troops, 3 of the day fought under the fire of numerous heavy artillery, inflicting huge losses. 61-division, dying in position, faithfully executed the order of the army commander.

At the front of the 9 Infantry Division: “... the division with the parts attached to it after a stubborn battle with significantly superior enemy forces suffered huge losses and .... goes in separate groups east and west of Dembovets to Jaslo. Zigrodsky direction is open ... The number of cash bayonets in the 9 Infantry Division is very small. Lost 6 guns in a stubborn bayonet battle and firing on the canister. "

In fact, the 3-th Caucasian Army Corps was not only late with the counterattack, but was also introduced into the battle in parts. L. von Rothkirch wrote: "... military units that had just been brought up by rail or arrived in time for the march were sent to a fierce battle without proper guidance and necessary orders." The materials of the Austrian Kriegsarkhiv report: “Radko-Dmitriev tried to restore the position of the counter-attack of the Caucasian corps, whose commander took command over parts of the 10 Army Corps ... the corps arrived on the battlefield too late (but) in parts ... of one of the two divisions, 21, managed to delay the offensive ... ".

Accordingly, a fundamental change in the operational-tactical situation did not occur. The duplication of corps efforts (the direction of a part of the troops to the right flank of the 10 Army Corps) weakened efforts in the area of ​​the main attack of the 3 Army.

The commander of the 3 Army informed the front commanders that as a result of the fighting of that day, the 10 Corps, 61, 63, and 70 Divisions and Volodchenko Detachment were so upset that the approach of the 3 of the Caucasian Corps served only to cover them waste. From the above-mentioned compounds, after stubborn resistance, which cost the colossal losses to the enemy, only remnants remained. Many regiments have only a few hundred bayonets. As a result, to protect its western front, the army has only forces of no more than 5 infantry divisions. After the arrival of the 13-th Siberian and Combined - 7 divisions. Pointing to the insufficiency of these forces, the commander asked for the strengthening of the western front of the army - otherwise it would be difficult to hold on. As a result, “... the left flank of the group of General Irmanov, after the strongest battles, was pushed back to the line Zmigrod, Dembovets”. It was reported that in such a position to stay on the line Dombrova, p. Visloka, Zmigrod, Mesolaborch cannot be - this line can only be an intermediate boundary before moving on to the next line, which is much to the northeast, approximately Sanok, Krosno, Pilzno, Dombrova, the mouth of the r. Dunajec.

Instead of the expected success of the attack of the 3-th Caucasian Army Corps, which could lead to a significant shift in the situation, there was only some stabilization of the situation. In fact, the corps, sacrificing itself as the “backups” of the 3 Army Corps, gave the army command time - 1-2 precious days. But this time it was necessary to be able to dispose.

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  1. -3
    22 October 2018 06: 40
    Bloody battles of local importance ... how many Russian soldiers and officers died in them ... valor and heroism paid for by their lives ... in the name of which all this is.
    When I get acquainted with the details of this war I feel uneasy about it ... our people paid a heavy price by getting involved in this massacre.
    1. +9
      22 October 2018 08: 07
      These are not local battles, but a major strategic operation
      1. -2
        22 October 2018 08: 19
        in the interests of the 3rd Army, the 3rd Caucasian Army Corps was to carry out two combat missions: to assist in the containment of the Biec region and attack on the Tsenzhkovice-Bobova section in order to knock out enemy units breaking through at the junction between the 9th and 10th Army Corps .


        Where is the strategy ... bogged down in the battles ... then the swing began ... forward, backward, backward, forward.
        1. +9
          22 October 2018 08: 27
          Another thing is that the corps did not succeed in applying the army command with its fist, introducing it in parts and giving two tasks.
          But the battles were not of local importance at all - it was a question of localizing the breakthrough, which was gaining ever-increasing proportions.
          Local fights are an ant hill in the Paths of Glory or a battle for the funnel
          1. +6
            22 October 2018 20: 42
            Volodchenko received George 4th degree for these battles
    2. +6
      22 October 2018 10: 45
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      ..in the name of what is all this.

      In the name of protecting the Fatherland.
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      our people paid a heavy price getting involved into this carnage.

      They "got involved" in it the same way as in WWII,
      1. -4
        22 October 2018 10: 47
        In the name of protecting the Fatherland.

        Sounds nice...
        but my opinion about WWI has not changed ... there was no brutal need to get involved in this fight.
        1. +3
          22 October 2018 12: 53
          Did you have to give up?
          Or sit and pick your nose and then stay face to face with Germany and Austria-Hungary?
          1. -2
            22 October 2018 12: 56
            Did you have to give up?
            Or sit and pick your nose and then stay face to face with Germany and Austria-Hungary?

            Neither one nor the other ... it was possible to organize a continuous strip of defense along the entire border with Austria-Hungary.

            Let the Austrians and Germans climb on machine guns and guns, losing their people ...
            why do we need to send our Russian men to slaughter for the sake of the interests of the bourgeoisie ... this is wrong.
            1. +4
              22 October 2018 12: 59
              And lose allies in the West? And fight alone? Did the Red Army help the defensive line in 1941?
              Then the country and the army were not ruled by primates and understood perfectly the consequences of "sitting out".
              In addition, Germany declared war anyway.
              Lenin decided to surrender already in the 18th year.
              1. -2
                22 October 2018 13: 01
                0
                And lose allies in the West?


                In the coffin, I saw such allies (ready to betray at the opportunity) ... cheaper to defend as Kutuzov did.
                1. +2
                  22 October 2018 13: 06
                  The allies in WWI suffered huge losses incomparable with the Russians and honestly fulfilled their duty to the end. Yeah, cheaper, but for some reason, Stalin rushed with calls for help to Churchill.
                  1. -2
                    22 October 2018 13: 11
                    The allies in WWI suffered huge losses incomparable with the Russians and honestly fulfilled their duty to the end. Yeah, cheaper, but for some reason, Stalin rushed with calls for help to Churchill.


                    Well, tell me honestly whose interests we should have defended in this massacre of Russia or these so-called allies.
                    Stalin received help from the Americans (THERE HAS BEEN THE BUYING AND SALES TRANSACTION FOR GOLD) ... help from the British was insignificant ... and I suppose it was the USSR that saved Britain from Hitler's invasion by delaying the main blow of the Wehrmacht ... do not cheat .
                    1. +2
                      22 October 2018 13: 25
                      Exclusively their own, here we must pay tribute to the politics and diplomacy of tsarism-worked 100%, Stalin and his primates by 5%. That's the whole difference.
                      The tsar forced the West to pay for Russian interests not only with money, but also with huge blood, while Stalin, on the contrary, paid for the interests of the West with Russian blood.
                      Therefore, the Tsar provoked hatred in the West, and Stalin patronizingly clapped for the cheeks
                      1. -2
                        22 October 2018 13: 31
                        Therefore, the Tsar provoked hatred in the West, and Stalin patronizingly clapped for the cheeks

                        What are you belay
                        Then I look. Stalin took the king with a plow from the Tsar and handed it over to his successor as a nuclear power with which the West was forced to reckon.
                        And only the idiocy of the subsequent general secretaries of the USSR brought to nothing almost all the achievements of the Stalin era ... it was a time when the USSR could go far ahead ... but alas, time does not tolerate subjunctive.
                      2. +2
                        22 October 2018 13: 38
                        Well, the native leader decided to help the white bhavans, why not pat him, hehe ...
                        Stalin received from the Tsar a country with a plow // Stop the vulgar jokes. This is not funny at all.
                        Hirohito took the country with the Nunchaku, and left it with an atomic bomb or two.
                        Yeltsin took the country with an empty glass, and left it with the Internet.
                      3. -1
                        22 October 2018 13: 42
                        Yeltsin took the country with an empty glass, and left it with the Internet.

                        Enough of jokes belay
                        I remember very well how Yeltsin drove Russia into the abyss of the Chechen war, gangster lawlessness, debts to the IMF bloodsucking moneylenders ...
                        Stop lying then ... am
                        find yourself better than another person to talk to
                      4. +2
                        22 October 2018 13: 52
                        Enough is enough.
                        The leadership of Russia answered the historical challenge in 1914.
                        Other options besides the Bolshevik surrender to Germany were not available.
                      5. -1
                        22 October 2018 14: 29
                        The choice is always there would not get involved in the WWII there would be no Bolsheviks with revolution and surrender.
                      6. +3
                        22 October 2018 14: 32
                        Russia was attacked, how can you not get involved in a war if you were attacked?
                        Did you have to give up right away?
                        On August 1, the Germans declared war. The first shots sounded from their territory.
                        It was necessary to declare unconditional surrender?
                      7. +2
                        22 October 2018 14: 54
                        Quote: The same LYOKHA
                        Then I look, Stalin took from Tsar a country with a plow and handed over to its successor as a nuclear power with which the West was forced to reckon.

                        Sokha - only in minds mutilated by propaganda.

                        The core is made by the royal scientists (Vnrnadsky, Ioffe, etc.) and their students brought up in the royal universities.
                        Or did Marxist-Leninist ... theory help them? lol

                        Quote: The same LYOKHA
                        But only idiocy subsequent general secretaries of the USSR reduced to almost all achievements Stalin era ..

                        . One party gave birth to such general secretaries, yes. Yes

                        The achievements of the era mentioned are the standard of living of 1913, achieved in the USSR only 40 years later and the demographic catastrophe of the 30s and extinction since 1964.
                      8. -1
                        25 October 2018 22: 46
                        Anyone who hates Stalin is the enemy of Russia. This catwoman is an uninhabited rat. Such scum would have been happy if the Nazis entered Moscow in the 41st.
                        There is nothing to discuss with her.
                        Koshnitsa is a shortage, without a homeland and without a flag.
                    2. +4
                      22 October 2018 14: 39
                      Quote: The same LYOKHA
                      Stalin received help from the Americans (THERE WAS RIGHT A TRANSACTION OF PURCHASE AND GOLD FOR GOLD)

                      They didn't give a damn about gold: they needed the Russians to stop the Nazis with their blood and lives (and not theirs). For this purpose, they supplied goods.
                2. +4
                  22 October 2018 14: 33
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  In the coffin I saw such allies (ready to betray at the opportunity).

                  nobody speaks of nobility: everyone pursues HIS goals.
                  As long as they match, all are allies.
                  And francs depended DEADLY on Russia in WWI, there’s no betrayal ....
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  cheaper defend as Kutuzov did.

                  Cheaper, this is when more Anglo-French blood is pouring, and not Russian. And that was in WWI.
                  And in WWII .....
          2. 0
            22 October 2018 13: 03
            To begin with, it was not necessary to support the organizers of the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, by the way, in 1903, they were also noted quite well.
            1. +4
              22 October 2018 13: 10
              And who supported the Gavril Principle in Russia?
              And what does the reason for the unleashing of the WWI relate to the reasons?
              There would be no murder, something else.
              Germany decided to fight anyway, otherwise a financial collapse.
              1. -2
                22 October 2018 13: 29
                The most direct-time, for the rearmament of the army only managed to allocate money, they did not have time to master it. As a result of not too well thought out foreign policy, the army did not have time to rearm.
                1. +2
                  22 October 2018 13: 39
                  Part mastered, the coup began.
                  The most prepared for WWII from the allies left the Russian army.
                  The policy was very well thought-out foreign, absolutely 100%.
                  But Germany appointed a war in the middle of 1914.
                  All.
                  Basta.
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2018 14: 50
                    The most trained army that did not have the planned number of rifles and ammunition? Tell us how were you going to storm the fortress without TAON?
                    And how was the industry prepared?
                    Foreign policy leading to two lost wars and two revolutions? Are we definitely discussing the same country?
                    1. 0
                      22 October 2018 15: 12
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      prepared army that did not have the planned number of rifles and ammunition?

                      Like all armies of the world in WWI. Everyone faced an unforeseen consumption of ammunition and weapons with a similar problem.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Tell us how were you going to storm the fortress without TAON?

                      Many Russians stormed the fortresses in the overseas campaigns of 1813-14, put militias and Bashkirs to guard and stained the siege.
                      Storming the besieged fortresses is a feature of Stalin's military science, there they stormed both Breslau on April 30 and the Kurland salient, the "large prisoner of war camp."
                      What do you feel sorry for? Women give birth to new ones.
                      Quote: strannik1985
                      Foreign policy leading to two lost wars and two revolutions?

                      Did the Tsar lose the WWII? Are we definitely discussing the same country?
                      1. 0
                        22 October 2018 15: 32
                        I’m not talking about that, my own plans for mobile stocks of ammunition and rifles were not fulfilled, and orders were not distributed evenly, it came to a suspension of the factories.
                        Przemysl, two sieges, the second successful, and if successful, the army of Rannenkampf and Samsonov should have stormed Koenigsberg. Well, yes, it was not useful and not necessary.

                        So the king is not to blame for overthrowing him? It is his direct duty to protect himself and his state.
                      2. -1
                        22 October 2018 16: 24
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        I’m not talking about this, my own plans for mobile stocks of ammunition and rifles were not fulfilled

                        It’s all about nothing.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Przemysl, two sieges, the second successful,

                        What are two sieges? One of the largest in WWI and very successful.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        were supposed to storm Koenigsberg.

                        Why storm the Koenigsberg? If you can besiege him.
                        You confuse the furrier marshal.
                        Quote: strannik1985

                        So the king is not to blame for overthrowing him?

                        Jacob is all to blame for his problems. And the victims of the Second World War and the victims of Chikatilo.
                        It was their direct duty to protect themselves from death.
                      3. 0
                        22 October 2018 16: 52
                        For nothing, this is the release by the Tula Plant for six months in 1914 of 41 combat and 1 training rifles.
                        Big respected, read carefully. Mining did not cover losses.
                        In September 1914 years.
                        It is impossible, it is not blocked from the sea.
                        No, he’s the head of state, for this he has an OKJ and military counterintelligence.
                      4. -1
                        22 October 2018 17: 02
                        Well, everyone had mistakes, in the USSR they also fought with one rifle for three.
                        The gold standard is the golden dream of humanity.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        In September 1914 years.

                        There is a difference between assault and siege.
                        Przemysl is a siege.
                        But the unsuccessful assault on Breslau on April 30, 1945 is an assault. And 30 thousand dead in the last days of the war on the Kurland ledge.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        No, he is the head of state, for this he has an OKJ and military counterintelligence.

                        The victims of Chikatilo also had arms and legs, and much more, including caution and fear.
                        But it didn’t help.
                      5. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 29
                        Not so, the USSR was not going to form and reformulate the 821 equivalent of a division during the first six months of the war, mistakes of a completely different order.

                        Materiel. September 22 began the assault, which had to be stopped on September 25, as the Austrians approached.

                        Among the victims of Chikatilo are those who have their own security service and personal guard?
                      6. -2
                        22 October 2018 19: 02
                        In the USSR, the chief of the General Staff was a furrier with two education classes, unable to read a map.
                        And the country was led by a national leader who couldn’t speak Russian. This is all the problems of the USSR.
                        And marshals of the USSR out of five people worked 4-Ukrainians.
                        Therefore, there could be no other options.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        September 22 began the assault, which had to stop

                        There was no full taxation for the first time — it was just a collision.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Among the victims of Chikatilo are those who have their own security service and personal guard?

                        Each person is given caution and their own resources. And they, fools, did not use them.
                      7. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 24
                        Compared with all those who fought in 1939-1940, many times better.

                        Even if it didn’t stop sending troops to storm.

                        Are each given the resources of the state?
                      8. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 28
                        Compared to all who fought in 1939-1940, many times better. / / So it’s from the skill that they draped to the Volga? And they lost 20 million soldiers killed?
                        Interesting topic.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Even if it didn’t stop sending troops to storm.

                        This is not an assault - this is reconnaissance in battle. A purely tactical trick.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Are each given the resources of the state?


                        Well, how else?
                        Everyone is provided with protection from the state, justice and so on.
                        Therefore, they feed both the cops and judges so that no one cuts and ate anyone.
                        Amazing question.
                      9. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 41
                        The Poles met the war as part of 7 operatively unconnected groups, Gamelen not only sent most of the troops to the Dil River border, but also failed to carry out any operational counterattack on the German TGr. They naturally lost on land, and the spacecraft retreated to the Volga with battles, but ended the war in Berlin.

                        Sources known to me claim that it was an assault, can you find out yours?

                        Wow, can I appoint the heads of the GRU and the FSB? Require an answer from them? Do I have bodyguards guarding me, my family?
                      10. 0
                        23 October 2018 12: 02
                        Naturally.
                        A democratic state, you choose the right power, they appoint.
                        And inside themselves, special services must act from birth.
                      11. -1
                        23 October 2018 13: 27
                        Of course, of course, any citizen of the Russian Federation owns the rights, duties and opportunities that Nikolay 2 had. A wonderful banter, it’s a pity he has no relation to a constructive conversation.
                      12. 0
                        23 October 2018 16: 10
                        In relation to his skin, definitely.
                        Nevertheless, the most wonderful and necessary for society are very often killed, maimed and thrown in this world.
                      13. -1
                        23 October 2018 18: 28
                        We return to the question posed by you - which of the victims of Chikatilo had the security service and the personal guard concerned about his guards?
                        Any boss is responsible for the work of his subordinates, including Nikolai.
                      14. 0
                        23 October 2018 18: 44
                        Yes, everyone had it. In the USSR they were told that they had clear skies, tasty bread, a lot of water and no trouble. The type of collective defender then led to the fact that the Soviet people ceased to trust themselves and turned into a lamb.
                        I am waiting for an answer to my question - how did Luxembourg and Belgium provoke unhappy Germany?
                      15. -1
                        23 October 2018 19: 42
                        Ordinary people lived in the USSR, no more stupid than you and me. Victims of Chikatilo are boys from 7 to 16 years old, girls and women, some of them are mentally retarded. Maniac them stronger and smarter, corny yes? How were the conspirators stronger than H2? Guess yourself?
                        No way, victims of circumstances.
                      16. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 24
                        by being at the right time and in the right place
                      17. -1
                        24 October 2018 04: 55
                        Not true, they organized the right place and time themselves. Everything is banal and simple, they convinced the military that they would manage better than H2.

                        Yeah, the mentally retarded USSR is much stupider than the mentally retarded RF. Bravo, a pattern of logic.
                      18. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 37
                        In the USSR, people were several orders of magnitude more stupid and without more responsible, modern Russians. Because it was a country of frightened idiots. There is an example of Chikatilo.
                      19. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 54
                        What does the circumstance have to do with it?
                        The Germans did not give a shit about the neutrality of these countries, just like the Austrians did not give a shit about the neutrality of Serbia.
                        Some started the aggression because of the right of passage, while others because of the dubious murder of one of the 80 heirs.
                        It looks very funny.
                      20. -1
                        24 October 2018 04: 59
                        Despite the fact that these countries did not impede the investigation of the murder of a citizen of a neighboring country on their territory.
                      21. -2
                        23 October 2018 20: 57
                        She did not retreat, but was repeatedly destroyed, quite shamefully, in Berlin, a completely different army and completely different people ended the war.
                      22. -1
                        24 October 2018 05: 23
                        Yes, completely different Zhukov, Konev, Rokossovsky ended the war in Germany. By 1942, the Germans completely had a shortage of 700 people in combat units (something that mobilization and replenishment did not cover), by November 000, out of 1941 trucks directly subordinate to the Wehrmacht, 350 were in need of repair or were lost. The Germans were corny stronger, not in the number of people and tanks, but in organization and auxiliary forces, in 000 attacked in three diverging directions, in 240 on one, in 000 on one sector of the front, and that was unsuccessful. Compare 1941 with 1942 and 1943, and not with spherical vacuum, from nowhere taken.
                      23. -2
                        24 October 2018 10: 24
                        Zhukov with PZhezkami was the same, but 20 million did not reach Berlin, there were basically completely different people there.
              2. +2
                22 October 2018 14: 59
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                Germany decided to fight anyway, otherwise a financial collapse.

                The collapse was not visible there, but the General Staff (Moltke) said in early 1914, they say, or now or neverotherwise Russia will become so strong that it is impossible to fight in principle.
                1. 0
                  22 October 2018 15: 05
                  He said this after the announcement of the mobilization of the RIA or after?
                  1. -1
                    22 October 2018 15: 07
                    Well, as it was not, all the limits on defense were exceeded to the utmost, and with the gold standard, this is a default.
                    1. -1
                      22 October 2018 15: 20
                      Who is so bad that made H2 switch to the gold standard, and even with 100% coverage?
                      1. -2
                        22 October 2018 15: 25
                        It's about Wilhelm II, actually. Read carefully.
                        The Gold Standard is the most advanced financial system invented by mankind in the process of market practice.
                        Due to this, there is no inflation per se.
                      2. -1
                        22 October 2018 15: 37
                        Yeah, she was in the Republic of Ingushetia from 1899 to 1914, how did they live before and after?
                        With this system, the amount of money in the economy is reduced, and in relation to Russia, which did not have large gold deposits being developed fatally, money must be won or borrowed. It is not surprising that during this period there were 2 unsuccessful wars and one revolution.
                      3. -1
                        22 October 2018 16: 08
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        how did they live before and after?

                        That's why they never lived so well.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        With this system, the amount of money in the economy is reduced.

                        Inflation is zero.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        not having developed large gold deposits

                        have google. Whom there on Lena shmalnuli by the way?
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        had 2 unsuccessful wars

                        Second unsuccessful war? Is everything okay with China, the first and second ones?
                      4. -1
                        22 October 2018 16: 20
                        How? Life has become worse.

                        Own production of 40-46 million. According to estimates Taburno left 83 million rubles.

                        Do you consider the overthrow a successful outcome?
                      5. -1
                        22 October 2018 16: 33
                        This is by no means a little to an appendix to available stocks.
                        But you said that in Russia there was NO gold mining at all.
                        So what is the second unsuccessful war under the king?
                  2. 0
                    22 October 2018 16: 25
                    The beginning of 1914 is before the announcement of the mobilization.
                    1. -1
                      22 October 2018 16: 55
                      Right? Or maybe B2 said it during the crisis?
                      1. 0
                        22 October 2018 17: 16
                        Googling Schlieffen's plan.
                        Therefore, it looks strange on your part to justify German imperialism in the 21st century. It has already been condemned and recognized as the main arsonist of the war.
                        Russia is not in this list at all.
                      2. -1
                        22 October 2018 17: 56
                        Google does not say anything on this subject, only Willy 2's speeches on the topic of a short war.
                        I do not justify German militarism, but I analyze the actions of H2.
                      3. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 12
                        You have gobbled up Google. It has broken, replace it. wink
                        The topic has already been taken to you.
                        The events of 1914 is the absolute success of Russian foreign policy and diplomacy.
                        This is the main thing you need to know about this piece of history.
                        There was peace, everything was fine.
                        In the field is a harvest, dear to every Russian heart.
                        But the evil Germans attacked, flurried, foot in the stirrup and forward.
                        Defend the sweet homeland.
                        Russia. As much as possible tried to stop the sliding of Europe into the war, but the Kaiser, having bit her bit, dreamed of world domination. And he challenged fate, dooming his country and people to vegetation.
                      4. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 30
                        So what's the problem? Link or source name?
                      5. 0
                        23 October 2018 18: 51
                        By the way, the last one to justify the actions of German imperialism in 1914 was Adolf Hitler.
                        This is so information for general development. No need to go along this slippery path.
                        Good advice.
        2. +1
          22 October 2018 14: 27
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          but my opinion about WWI has not changed ... there was no brutal need to get involved in this fight.

          Did anyone ASK for Russia — does it want to fight both in 1914 and 1941? belay
          1. -1
            22 October 2018 15: 07
            Ahem, didn’t the mobilization of the RIA lead to the beginning of the WWII? If the tsar had supported Austrian demands on Serbia, this reason for the war would have been exhausted.
            1. 0
              22 October 2018 15: 23
              Imagine no.
              Russia began mobilization in response to the mobilization of Austria-Hungary at its borders.
              So that later it would not be excruciatingly painful, as in 1941.
              Support the king of Austrian requirements for Serbia // Russia did not vassal of Austria-Hungary, and Nicholas the 2nd, Franz Joseph did not obey in order to maintain delusional requirements contrary to international law.
              1. +1
                22 October 2018 15: 38
                Do we have common borders with Serbia?
                Do not remind me at what point of the Austrian demands the Serbs categorically refused?
                1. -2
                  22 October 2018 15: 57
                  We had common borders with Austria-Hungary. See the map.
                  To allow the Austrian-Hungarian Empire to work in the territory of Serbia to stop any anti-Austrian activities.
                  This does not happen. Only with a protectorate can such claims be considered legal.
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2018 16: 09
                    Of course we are not discussing this point, it is impossible to designate this activity as preparation and conduct of a terrorist attack, you cannot call on a third party, at least as peacekeepers, you must definitely refuse.
                    I wonder what the organizers of the murder thought before.
                    1. 0
                      22 October 2018 16: 16
                      There was no evidence of Serbia’s involvement in the killing.
                      The initiative of young people, subjects of Franz Joseph himself.
                      And here is the kingdom of Serbia in general?
                      The 5th paragraph eliminates the state independence of Serbia, it was really impossible to accept it.
                      The crowd would have torn down such a government.
                      And who are the organizers of the murder?
                      1. 0
                        22 October 2018 16: 23
                        So, if not involved in what is the problem? Negotiate with a view to establishing a framework for anti-Asrian activity, why refuse completely?
                      2. -2
                        22 October 2018 16: 29
                        Contradicts international law.
                        Serbs offered to go to court.
                        But even. if the Serbs agreed to accept this point, then all the same a world war could not be avoided.
                        So the Kaiser wanted.
                      3. 0
                        22 October 2018 16: 54
                        Suspicions were justified, the war and for lesser reason began.
                        Well, and what did he want, the army did not even manage to spend the allocated money.
                      4. 0
                        22 October 2018 17: 05
                        The aggressor always has excuses.
                        But when you really want to, then excuses are discarded, like unnecessary husks and a piece of paper.
                        There Count Purtales managed to convey to the Russian Foreign Ministry as many as two notes declaring war, contradicting each other.
                        And war was declared.
                        You are to blame for the fact that I want to eat .... (C).
                      5. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 25
                        Hello, arrived. Ilic's testimony that the weapon for the assassination was provided by the Serbian government - an excuse? Is it justifiable that they were identified as members of Young Bosnia, which they knew to be part of the Serbian Black Hand? It seems that you are trying to shield the killers.
                      6. -2
                        22 October 2018 18: 29
                        They met with representatives of British intelligence, and Trotsky-Bronstein.
                        Maybe it was organized by the Bolsheviks? Why not?
                        This is all bullshit of golem water.
                        The decision to start a war has already been made in Berlin.
                      7. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 32
                        I.e., indications of the assassination attempt-poppycock. Good. Thank.
                      8. -1
                        22 October 2018 18: 36
                        The testimony of the defendant?
                        In work for Uruguayan intelligence?
                        Well, and how does this explain the German attack on Russia?
                      9. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 39
                        So the testimony is true. Now they argue whether the top leadership of the Black Hand had anything to do with the assassination attempt or not, but the fact that the killers are members of the organization created by the Serbian military is a fact.
                      10. -1
                        22 October 2018 18: 40
                        For some reason, Franz Joseph’s subjects failed his archduke, but Germany attacked Russia for some reason.
                        L-logic.
                      11. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 42
                        The murderers of the Young Bosnia organization, which in turn is a branch of the Black Hand organization? What country is the Black Hand leadership in?
                      12. -2
                        22 October 2018 18: 46
                        You are repeating vomit from Austrian propaganda leaflets.
                        But even based on this scribble, Austria-Hungary does not cease to be the aggressor who attacked Serbia, and Germany the aggressor who unleashed a world war.
                        Hitler also claimed that he was forced to attack the USSR.
                      13. -1
                        22 October 2018 18: 49
                        So is that not true? Can you find out your sources of information?
                        In the sense? Killers from a Serbian secret organization killed the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, the Serbian government denies access to conduct an investigation - what else is needed for the war?
                      14. -1
                        22 October 2018 18: 52
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        what else is needed for war?

                        Hitler said the same thing.
                        And let me find out how the Austro-Serbian conflict influenced the German attack on Russia?
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Assassins from a Serbian secret organization

                        There were no subjects of the Serbian king tongue
                        This is an internal matter of Austria itself.
                        And here is Serbia?
                      15. 0
                        22 October 2018 18: 55
                        Germany attacked France, not Russia.
                        Austria-Hungary is Germany’s main ally, how will they abandon it? Can you tell me what documents link Serbia and the Russian Empire?

                        So Young Bosnia has nothing to do with the Black Hand?
                      16. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 06
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Germany attacked France, not Russia.

                        Is this what you are taught in school?
                        And where exactly is such an institution?
                        I consider the existence of such schools unacceptable, even for children with alternative thinking.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Austria-Hungary is Germany’s main ally, how will they abandon it?

                        And why did Germany attack Russia in this case?
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Can you tell me what documents link Serbia and the Russian Empire?

                        Germany and Austria-Hungary were the first to attack Serbia and Russia and France and Luxembourg and Belgium. Is it clear now?
                        Memorize it.
                        Or go to the Housekeeping Forum.
                      17. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 32
                        Yeah, we open the book "The Brain of the Army" by Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov, he analyzed the meaning and meaning of the word mobilization in detail, including in relation to the beginning of WWI
                      18. -1
                        22 October 2018 19: 33
                        Open and close.
                        Because the mobilization of the first start of Austria-Hungary and Germany.
                        And then, having mobilized, they attacked Russia.
                        First.
                      19. 0
                        22 October 2018 20: 02
                        No, on July 28, AVI declares war on Serbia and begins mobilization, of the same number, the RIA begins mobilization in 4 HE. On the evening of the same day, the Foreign Ministry warns the Germans that these measures are not directed against Germany. July 29, Germany demands to stop mobilization, because it will lead to war. Between 6 and 7 pm, H2 agrees to general mobilization.
                        Then there is a shove, on August 31, the Germans demand that the Russians be demobilized in 12 hours, to which H2 states that the mobilization is not directed against Germany. August 1 at 17.00 Germany declares war on Russia and at the same time mobilization.
                      20. -1
                        22 October 2018 20: 18
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        August 1 at 17.00 Germany declares war on Russia and at the same time mobilization.

                        Handing erroneously two notes on declaring war.
                        1st - RIA mobilization was called the reason
                        2nd without announcement of reasons.
                        Germany attacked Russia.
                        And soon Austria-Hungary joined her.
                        These are facts, no arguing against them, Germany carried out secret mobilization at that time.
                        And Austria-Hungary began the first mobilization.
                        And then Germany attacked. The first shots from German territory at Russian border guards.
                        Therefore, the war for Russia was fair, the Second World War.
                        So see?
                      21. 0
                        22 October 2018 21: 09
                        Well, yes, the mobilization-war, the Republic of Ingushetia started it on 28th, and the Guinea War on August 1, both countries carried out preparatory measures, for example, the RIA detained those called up for spring training, and on July 26 announced a preparatory period during which many formations increased to wartime, this Shaposhnikov wrote in his memoirs.
                      22. -2
                        22 October 2018 22: 13
                        Demobilization is not a war. Shaposhnikov wrote what was ordered and edited by primates.
                        There are many cases in history when mobilization was declared, but war did not happen.
                        Therefore, writing statements like "Mobilization is war" is akin to the aphorism that "Erection is sexual intercourse."
                        But alas, not so.
                        The first mobilization began AB and Germany secretly.
                        They started the war.

                        For home economics.
                      23. -1
                        23 October 2018 04: 33
                        In fact, he was right at 200%, the lead in deployment cost a quick defeat for Poland and the defeat in the Frontier Battle for the AC, the passive strategy (the next step after mobilization, we must advance) for the Allies turned out to be a rout in the summer of 1940. The fear of being lead in deployment led to the war of 1967, the Egyptians only threatened, but ran into a full-fledged wave.
                        You are trying to expose Germany and AVI as the only culprits of the conflict, but it’s not so, the boughs were sawn by everyone. Willy, even after the mobilization officially began, sent a telegram asking him to stop the mobilization. To which he received an idiotic answer, but she is not directed against Germany.
                      24. 0
                        23 October 2018 11: 58
                        Yes, he is not 100% right at all.
                        There were several crises like July-August 1914 at the beginning of the century, and the annexation of Bosnia and the Moroccan crisis were much smaller.
                        But for a major war, one man’s will was needed.
                        In PMV, it was Kaiser Wilhelm
                        in WWII, Chancellor and Fuhrer Hitler.
                        There is no strong, united Germany; there is no world war.
                        Therefore, in fact, there is no third world war.
                        No one sawed any branches except Germany and Austria-Hungary.
                        Sitting when mobilization is going on at your borders, there were no idiots in RI. In order not to crow for eight decades about an insidious attack.
                        Nicholas II invited everyone to stop the activities related to the war, but after all, a plan had already been launched, which is a law for a German.
                        1914 - the beginning of the First World War: +100
                        The outbreak of World War II was the greatest grief for European civilization, and consequently for Russia as its integral part.

                        However, if you evaluate the actions of the Russian government at that moment, they were impeccable. Until 1907, Russia resisted the creation of a tough clinch of German and English military-political blocs in Europe. The concession to this (which predetermined the inevitable beginning of the war) occurred under the influence of irrefutable circumstances (the terrorist war of England against the Russian monarchy, which lasted until the forced conclusion of a military alliance in 1907).

                        Under these conditions, Russian diplomacy achieved the most advantageous configuration of the upcoming clash - it sided with a clear advantage and launched a war against Turkey, which made it possible to solve the strategic task of controlling the Black Sea straits. The preparation for the war was good, although Russia, of all the great powers, was least guilty of fomenting it (the main fault lay with England and Germany) and, therefore, was least prepared for this war (that is, it was preparing, but without fanaticism). The fighting itself on the Russian fronts was carried out successfully and with little blood, the country's economy was not affected.

                        As a result of the undoubted defeat of Germany, Russia turned out to be a continental sub-hegemon by the end of 1917, as in the period 1815-1856, and had good chances to become a superpower - much more powerful than the Soviet Union subsequently.

                        About sawing bitches by everyone?
                        How did the Montenegrins, the Belgians, the Luxembourgers saw the bough?
                      25. -1
                        23 October 2018 13: 24
                        Yes, he is not 100% right at all.

                        Because they carried out only hidden mob events or managed to cancel the official mobilization.
                        No one sawed any branches except Germany and Austria-Hungary.

                        We have already found out that RI and AVI declared mobilization at the same time, the latter at the same time declared war on Serbia. Germany, from these countries, announced the general mobilization of the latter. But of course you will repeat the same mantra, without even giving any arguments.
                        However, if you evaluate the actions of the Russian government at that moment, they were impeccable

                        What did the AVI war with Serbia have to do with Russia? The moral satisfaction of Nicholas 2? Since when did Austria-Hungary lose the right to declare war on someone?
                        Your passage about the war with Turkey is generally beyond good and evil. They fired a big war, at the same time received another front.
                      26. +1
                        23 October 2018 16: 09
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        or managed to cancel the official mobilization.

                        Well, who prevented Austria-Hungary from abolishing its mobilization?
                        And the mobilization of the beginning FIRST A-B.-July 25.
                        Russians are only July 27th.
                        Russian mobilization is a consequence of the Austrian.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        What did the AVI war with Serbia have to do with Russia?

                        It was a friendly state, today they are attacking Serbia, tomorrow Russia is under the fabricated pretext that another conspirators hid in Russia.
                        There was a red line, there was an agreement not to cross it.
                        All. Basta.
                        Austria is the aggressor.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Since when did Austria-Hungary lose the right to declare war on someone?

                        And who ever told you that you can declare an aggressive war for any reason? Already then there was international law, by the way.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        They fired a big war, at the same time received another front.

                        So Turkey attacked Russia itself, the world war was already raging by the way.
                        And the most necessary thing from Turkey is the Straits. They should rightfully belong to Russia.
                      27. -1
                        23 October 2018 18: 51
                        This friendly state was implicated in the murder of the heir to the throne of a neighboring state. Obstruction of the investigation - any reason?
                        But everything is corny, a stigma in the cannon and hope for the intercession of Russia.

                        You basically do not consider the reasons for the entry of Turkey?)))
                        Prior to this, the Turks turned to the French, British, Russian, no one gave guarantees for peace after the war. Our Straits closed their eyes. The Germans corny supported them at a difficult moment. Naturally, Russia could not conquer the Straits.
                      28. 0
                        23 October 2018 18: 58
                        Why are you repeating the postulates of Adolf Hitler, defending the aggressors in this forum?
                        . I do not advise doing this.
                        The state of Serbia was not involved in the murder of the Archduke, but his subjects, Franz Joseph, were ridiculed. Demand was also with them.
                        The Serbian authorities were ready to cooperate on all points, but Vienna needed a war.
                        Because Berlin so wanted.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        You basically do not consider the reasons for the entry of Turkey?)))

                        And who are they interested in? Home is the brain cancer of Abdul Hamid. The rest is all nonsense of pursuit and Enver’s dreams.
                      29. -1
                        23 October 2018 19: 59
                        We start over. Simple facts - Young Bosnia members? Was this organization founded by the Black Hand? What country is the Black Hand leadership in? All points except the admission of the police to Serbia?

                        Judge people by affairs, cases by results. The straits were not captured, but since 1914 they received an additional Caucasian front, as if there were not enough affairs in Europe.
                      30. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 31
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Was this organization founded by the Black Hand?

                        where did you get that?
                        I repeat, anyone met them, even Trotsky with the Principle, maybe this is Bronstein’s vyser? So it is necessary to introduce Austrian troops into the Kherson province? Have you swollen for an hour, dear ones? I understand that grandfather Franz Joseph told everyone that Thessaloniki and Constanta are Austrian ports, but the king of Serbia and its people are to blame for something?
                        It does not happen.
                        This is all conspiracy theology and cheap.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        The straits were not captured, but since 1914 they received an additional Caucasian front

                        So Turkey attacked Russia. Nobody asked her about it. It ended with the death of the Ottoman Empire and reformatting into an Ankara cheap scoop. tongue
                      31. -1
                        24 October 2018 04: 39
                        They can’t occupy the country because the relations of these organizations are written in a bunch of sources, on the basis of Ilic’s testimony, on the basis of the reaction of Serbia — the police are not the army. And here you are an owl pulling the globe, Rafik is not to blame for anything.

                        So Russia covered itself with a copper basin, including due to the Turkish attack.
                      32. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 35
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        We have already found out that RI and AVI announced mobilization at the same time,

                        Why are you lying, wanderer?
                        Well, who prevented Austria-Hungary from abolishing its mobilization?
                        And the mobilization began on FIRST A-B.-July 25.
                        Russians are only July 27th.
                        Russian mobilization is a consequence of the Austrian.
                        I'm waiting for an apology. Why so lie stupid and childish?
                      33. -1
                        24 October 2018 04: 43
                        I met 3 options for mobilization start dates. What am I to blame?
                        If you take your option, then July 25 is the beginning of a partial mobilization. Are the Austrians so strong that they can fight against Russia with a partially deployed army? Did they declare war on Serbia to challenge?
                      34. 0
                        24 October 2018 10: 26
                        There are no three options for mobilization start dates.
                        Find one true.
                        Yes, Austria-Hungary began mobilization, including in the districts near the Russian border.
                        They prepared in advance to fight against both Serbia and Russia.
                      35. 0
                        23 October 2018 20: 33
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        About sawing bitches by everyone?
                        How did the Montenegrins, the Belgians, the Luxembourgers saw the bough?

                        Will I wait for an answer to my simple question for a long time?
                      36. -1
                        24 October 2018 04: 46
                        Are they implicated in the killings of citizens of neighboring countries? Did they not allow the police into their territory for investigation? No? So why do you put an equal sign between them and Serbia?
                      37. 0
                        24 October 2018 10: 28
                        Who is involved in the killings of which citizens?
                        The nearest citizens lived in France.
                        The Black Hand is an Orthodox monarchist organization, and Mlada Bosna is a republican and atheist organization.
                        What is common between them?
                      38. 0
                        22 October 2018 16: 56
                        The Duchy of Luxembourg did not kill anyone, was not a member of any alliances and did not threaten anyone, but was occupied by the Germans on the very first day.
    3. +5
      31 October 2018 14: 46
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      in the name of what is all this.
      When I get acquainted with the details of this war I feel uneasy about it ... our people paid a heavy price by getting involved in this massacre.

      In the name of protecting the people and the Fatherland from German aggression. Our people did not "get involved" in this war, but became a victim of German aggression.
  2. +9
    22 October 2018 08: 08
    Time is the most important operational factor.
    How important it is to properly dispose of them. No less important than competently applying a powerful front line reserve
    1. +7
      22 October 2018 10: 59
      Time is generally the main thing that you can actually have in this world
  3. +9
    22 October 2018 09: 30
    In fact, the corps, sacrificing themselves as "backups" of the 3rd Army corps

    That's the trouble that the case has turned into props. But even in this situation, he slowed down the enemy’s breakthrough, slowing down the pace of his advance — and saved the whole army.
    Thank you for continuing the important and interesting cycle!
    1. +8
      22 October 2018 11: 00
      A bifurcation of course, of course, didn’t work.
      But
      But even in this situation, he slowed down the enemy’s breakthrough, slowing down the pace of his advance — and saved an entire army

      Absolutely
      Thank you for continuing the important and interesting cycle!

      good good
  4. +10
    22 October 2018 10: 03
    Quality articles with a rich source base.
    And set out meticulously and at the same time interesting.
    All salt is often in the details! To understand, it is necessary as Comrade Isaev used to say, twist and analyze
    1. +8
      22 October 2018 11: 42
      Yes, the article is useful for everyone truly interested in the history of World War I.
  5. +8
    22 October 2018 11: 46
    The 3rd Caucasian Army Corps was not only late with a counterattack, but also entered into battle in parts

    A number of unfavorable factors were imposed - from communication capabilities to errors in target designation and sluggishness of individual command authorities.
    But without the corps entering the battle, the army’s front would very likely split in half - the Austro-Germans would drive a too powerful wedge between the 9th and 10th corps.
    And objectively, Caucasians saved not only the army - their actions had on the fate of the entire front. As required from the front-line reserve, and of high quality.
    1. +6
      22 October 2018 11: 46
      had an impact - not finished)
  6. +7
    22 October 2018 20: 42
    We look forward to continue!
  7. +5
    31 October 2018 14: 44
    Wonderful and very informative article! The author - my sincere gratitude for the work done!