Military Review

The fleet may need another "Ivan Gren"

35
Command of the Navy plans to complete the second landing ship project 11711

The fleet may need another "Ivan Gren"

Large landing ship "Ivan Gren", built by order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation at the Baltic shipyard "Yantar" in Kaliningrad


The twin brother of the large landing ship (BDK) "Ivan Gren", launched last week in Kaliningrad, is planned to be built by order of the naval fleet. As a high-ranking source in the Navy’s commander-in-chief told Izvestia, it’s now being decided in what configuration the ship will be ordered to shipbuilders.

- The fate of the project 11711 will be decided after the construction of the second BDK. That is, we are planning to order the second such ship, and then we will decide whether to build ships of this type further, - explained the representative of the Navy.

He explained that "Ivan Gren" is intended for the landing of troops directly on the shore. To do this, the BDK "sits" stranded with the bow and opens the huge "gate" in the nose. This method is very good for deserted shores, but is meaningless under the fire of enemy coastal troops.

Other types of amphibious assault ships land with the help of boats or helicopters, such as the French Mistral. Obviously, the Russian Navy, purchasing the Mistrali, will focus on this method of landing, which is also called “over-the-horizon” - the ship can land landing outside the line of sight from the coast, while the BDK needs to be stuck in the coast.

On the other hand, BDK does not require additional amphibious means, due to which it has a greater payload. Now in the Russian Navy about 20 BDK. Two of them in August 2008 participated in the seizure of the Georgian port of Poti.

In the United Shipbuilding Company (USC), Izvestia was informed that it has not yet made any documentary decisions on the construction of the second BDK Navy.

- The Kaliningrad shipbuilding plant “Yantar”, on which the “Ivan Gren” is built, is, of course, ready to begin construction even tomorrow. But the fleet must decide on the appearance of the second ship, so the project of the first one has changed three times, - the Izvestia interlocutor explained.

According to him, initially “Ivan Gren”, designed in 1998, was supposed to possess powerful weapons, including air defense systems. In 2004, the ship began to build on this concept.

However, already in the 2006 year, after the change of leadership of the Navy, it was decided to get rid of most of the weapons of Ivan the Gren. As a result, the BDK turned into a lightly-armed transport worker “with amphibious potential.” In this form, the ship was launched on May 18 2012 in Kaliningrad.

- We had to cut the ship's hull, destroy the premises where the air defense systems were to be located. Now the fleet is unlikely to want to leave this project in this form, - explained the representative of USC.

According to him, if the fleet does not provide Yantar with a technical assignment in the near future, the second ship of this project may not get into the state defense order of the year 2013, which must be signed as early as October of the year 2012. In this case, the laying of the ship will take place only in 2014 year.

In addition, according to the Izvestia interlocutor, many of the weapons and control systems designed for Ivan Gren in 1998 have already been taken out of production and now the designers will have to implement new systems for this project.

- A lot of things are simply not available - diesel engines, pumps, turbines, artillery systems. Something is very outdated - for example, electronics. Now many components have completely different dimensions, characteristics, cost, so the fleet will have to develop a new technical project anyway, the source said.

Konstantin Sivkov, First Vice-President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, explained that the fleet, in the form in which the Ivan Grena was launched, does not need a second ship.

- It is necessary to build a full-fledged ship, so that it will have both air defense systems, and powerful attack components, and the ability to throw out and protect the landing force. And “Ivan Gren” can be sent to civilian shipping, the expert said.

According to Sivkov, the ships of this project are much more necessary to the fleet than the Mistrali, but due to the fact that the fleet still does not have a single strategy and understanding of which ships and for what it needs, the 11711 project can be ignored.

Displacement BDK "Ivan Gren" is 5 thousand tons, speed - 18 nodes. The length of the ship is 120 m, the width is 16,5 m, the draft is 3,6 m. The crew size is 100 people. The 76,2-millimeter cannon, two six-barreled 30-millimeter anti-aircraft installations, two launchers of the RZSO “Grad” and the Ka-29 transport and combat helicopter are in service.
Originator:
http://www.izvestia.ru
35 comments
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  1. Dmitriy69
    Dmitriy69 24 May 2012 12: 18
    +15
    The fleet to be !!!
    1. TRex
      TRex 24 May 2012 12: 21
      +9
      In which regiment did you serve? Dima, are you like "Peter 1"?
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 24 May 2012 12: 39
        +6
        In kind, Dmitriy69 ...
        what didn’t you say before?
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 24 May 2012 12: 50
          +6
          Quote: Igarr
          what didn’t you say before?

          Igor +! good ! Humor helps us build and live!
      2. older
        older 24 May 2012 13: 35
        +8
        Damn ... If there is a marine, then ships for its transportation must be available ... Modern and high-speed ... Soldiers are more important than iron ..
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 24 May 2012 12: 52
      +5
      Quote: Dmitriy69
      The fleet to be !!!

      Dmitry, STRONG FLEET !!! +
    3. YARY
      YARY 24 May 2012 13: 09
      +6
      Not one more, but at least nine !!! angry
      1. AER_69
        AER_69 24 May 2012 15: 33
        +3
        Exactly! MINIMUM NINE! good
        1. 755962
          755962 24 May 2012 16: 46
          +4
          Nadot immediately to blow to the UDC. Why are shy?
  2. Tersky
    Tersky 24 May 2012 12: 19
    +7
    triple is necessary - one child is not a child, two children are the sex of the child, three are already a child drinks
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 24 May 2012 12: 30
      +6
      This is a more specific application, so there are still brains in the head, even if they design in iron. And Grena was built, so it’s already useful anyway, there’s always enough work in the Navy, even on a catch, all the same, a new apparatus. Military equipment is transported to the Kuril Islands, Sakhalin in the Baltic Sea to Kaliningrad, there are no sea work, and there are not enough civilian fleets of ferries!
    2. older
      older 24 May 2012 13: 37
      +4
      When the fleet has the ability to transfer marines not only by air, but also by water it is a normal fleet ... And BDKs allow not only to transfer, but also to keep the marines for a long time in combat readiness at possible theater
  3. Gocha kurashvili
    Gocha kurashvili 24 May 2012 12: 24
    +5
    It is gratifying that the second will be built. It is embarrassing that cockroaches are still in the "bright" heads of our strategists. How much more time is needed to decide? With such strategists, you don't need enemies ...
    1. older
      older 24 May 2012 13: 39
      +1
      Yes, they decided .. A third ship is needed .. But it’s not yet clear where to get the money for its construction ... Wait until the end of the year and take a piece out of the budget ... And all these conversations are rather wishes
  4. Igarr
    Igarr 24 May 2012 12: 36
    0
    Who will we carry to the BDK?
    And where?
    Vietnamese to us? or vice versa?
    Or maybe where else?

    The Chinese aircraft carriers are building. With a population of 1,5 billion.
    We are the BDK, with an order of magnitude smaller.
    Your affairs are wonderful .... General Staff.
    1. older
      older 24 May 2012 13: 42
      +4
      The Chinese are building, and the Americans are abandoning the construction ... Carriers are good when you are fighting against a weak enemy ... But in a serious matter, the destruction of such a ship can be equated with the loss of an entire fleet ...
      And BDK are needed to use the Marine for its intended purpose .. to capture bridgeheads on the coast
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 24 May 2012 13: 51
        +2
        Who are you going to capture?
        Two BDK?
        Or maybe three.
        The doctrine says - we are imprisoned, henceforth, under local conflicts.
        I agree.
        Under the marine local?
        Where will the battalion of "black death" be enough?
        With the pirates in Somalia, the destroyers completely dealt with a platoon of marines.

        And then - .. "Aircraft carriers are good when you fight against a weak enemy." I would say even more - they are exceptionally good - when fighting against a powerful enemy.
        But to pin down ... Bedouins on camels - here the marine company will be able to act very economically.

        All this I do not lead to the fact that .. BDK is not needed. Probably needed. Replacement, just an update, and even just - so that was where to serve the military commanders.
        It’s just ... well, this is a transport carrier. It would be nice to have an extra corvette, and even better an ekranoplan. Then we will deliver the same company of marines to capture the bridgehead faster and .. with a breeze. And then the screen could also be pulled. Qualitatively.
        1. Goga
          Goga 24 May 2012 14: 36
          +8
          Igarr - Namesake, the article casually mentioned why the BDK is needed now - just two such ships with a landing party in 2008 took the port of Poti from Miho. Miho, of course, is an exceptional clown, but the dog knows which other neighboring Papuans will take down the roof, so 2-3 BDKs at this level can quite solve the problem, so there is a sense.
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 24 May 2012 14: 46
            0
            Hi Igor.
            That's it ... the demonstration was very high quality. Convincing, I would say.
            But if ..... even the saboteurs would have simply hung everything over with MONKOMs, and including the same action in Tbilisi, it would have been even cooler.

            Not against me, not against. Even if they later cut these BDKs - all the same, hard workers at the plant - there will be a salary. Twice.
            Current for.
          2. 77bor1973
            77bor1973 24 May 2012 17: 18
            +5
            Large landing ships are needed but a large type of "Ivan Rogov", with normal armament for the Pacific Fleet, and the modified 11711 for the Baltic and the Black Sea Fleet!
  5. LOMiK
    LOMiK 24 May 2012 12: 38
    +5
    It is necessary to build a full-fledged ship so that it has both air defense systems, and powerful strike components, and the ability to throw out and defend the landing. And Ivan Gren can be sent to civil shipping, the expert said.

    And which one decided to get rid of most of the weapons ?! On the neck of the army downs enough, first like that, then like that. They built it, but the ship is bad, the money was thrown to the wind!
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 24 May 2012 12: 58
      +1
      Yes, of course, it’s necessary to build, but nothing was thrown out for nothing here, of course I’m not good at this topic, but even with such weapons he can freely walk past the pirates with cargo from Oboronexport, and even hold a couple of ships next to it, but the question is, Does he go at such distances, well, unless with extra help. Maybe someone will correct if something is wrong.
      1. TRex
        TRex 24 May 2012 13: 40
        0
        As part of a detachment of ships (military guard + tanker): free ... at least Africa ... at least to America.
      2. TRex
        TRex 24 May 2012 13: 47
        +3
        As part of a detachment of ships (combat guard + tanker): free. Though to Africa, even to America ...
  6. jindol47
    jindol47 24 May 2012 12: 57
    +5
    And what, amphibious air cushion ships are not needed by the Navy? We are losing technology and specialists. And ekranoplans of the "Caspian Monster" type? If only they would restore what was left.
  7. King
    King 24 May 2012 13: 24
    +4
    eco-plans I hope D. Rogozin will keep his promises
  8. toguns
    toguns 24 May 2012 13: 39
    0
    good news more BDK new and different drinks
  9. understudy
    understudy 24 May 2012 13: 57
    0
    Quote: Dmitriy69
    The fleet to be !!!

    Of course it is. If they finish off the aviation, then they will take up the Fleet. Until then ... be. To be honest, I simply fall into a stupor from these "hurray-patriots" who derive their exorbitant delight exclusively from the officialdom. Maybe they are all from among the schoolchildren who accidentally wandered into the site?
    With a high degree of confidence, and to our deep regret, we can state that "Serdyukov will be here for now!" And this circumstance is most depressing, because in the end it is this that will lead to non-existence in the "territory" under his jurisdiction.

    Quote: LOMiK
    And which one decided to get rid of most of the weapons ?!

    The same one from the Mistrals ... uh ... to the ceiling. If you look at the incredible armament of the Frenchman in the amount of as many as ... a couple of machine guns.
  10. aspirin02
    aspirin02 24 May 2012 14: 00
    +4
    I almost don’t understand .... in 90 they cut everything, but now they are starting to rebuild .. And how many nuclear submarines went to iron eh ...
  11. common man
    common man 24 May 2012 14: 20
    +3
    It's like in a song. "We will destroy the old world to its foundations, and then, we will build our new world ..." Only here it is always possible to destroy, but to build through time, and not a fact. what's better.
  12. sahha
    sahha 24 May 2012 14: 22
    0
    HOORAY. Hooray to all urapatriots.

    And please generalize all generals to corporal

    PS populists
  13. taseka
    taseka 24 May 2012 15: 30
    +4
    For normality, they would write - who is Ivan Gren !!!
    The ship bears the name of an outstanding Soviet scientist in the field of naval artillery, Vice Admiral Ivan Gren.
  14. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 24 May 2012 16: 37
    +2
    As far as I understand ... the question of the need for a heavy weaponry at the BDK is debatable, and for some it raises the question of the need for the BDK at all ... the question is, they are creating Arctic brigades, they say there will be an articulated combat vehicle how to deliver them?
  15. Andrey0907
    Andrey0907 24 May 2012 19: 56
    0
    In my opinion, the word "landing" in the title speaks for itself. I believe that the armament should be minimal: air defense and something to fight off the little things. This is not a strike ship, but a landing ship. He will not go to the landing alone, there must be escort. Its purpose is to deliver troops from point A to point B, load faster, unload faster, have an increased range with good conditions for the landing force and the crew. And here they are trying some big assault landing ship (BDUK) lol сделать.
    1. 77bor1973
      77bor1973 25 May 2012 00: 07
      +3
      the fact of the matter is that the BDK is not just a barge, but a warship that can not only land troops on the coast but also support it with the fire of its guns and the better it is armed, the faster the landing will cope with its tasks!
      1. gor
        gor 25 May 2012 07: 24
        0
        Well, if so that it was supported by fire, then probably it should be about the size of nimitz
  16. dimks98
    dimks98 24 May 2012 20: 29
    +2
    I read the name ...
    What do you mean "may be needed"? Such ships as "Ivan Gren" are always needed !!! yes Especially to our fleet, which is not crooked, I’ll say that it’s not in the best of conditions ...
  17. nnz226
    nnz226 25 May 2012 17: 39
    +1
    Well, landing directly on the shore (so that the adversary does not interfere with his fire) is ensured by careful rocket and artillery processing of the landing site. No wonder Marshal Zhukov said: "With 350 guns per kilometer of the front, they don't report on the enemy in the first line!"
  18. razved
    razved 26 May 2012 13: 53
    0
    BDK must have powerful weapons.