Without the United States in any way: the State Department will support the split of the Ukrainian religious community

Representative of the State Department for Religious Freedom Sam Brownbe went on a business tour: from 10 to 19 September he will visit Ukraine, Poland and Uzbekistan, reports RIA News.

In Ukraine, Brownback has a special mission: he will discuss with the government and religious leaders "efforts to protect and promote religious freedom" in the country, the American Foreign Ministry said.

The State Department did not specify, their representative will discuss the issues of granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. However, the time chosen for the visit of the “religious human rights activist” speaks precisely about this.

Recall, on Friday, the Patriarchate of Constantinople declared that it had appointed its exarchs in Kiev to control and assist in resolving the issue of granting UOC autocephaly (the exarch is something like the head of a church district abroad of the country in which the patriarchate is located).

According to the Ukrainian press, the exarchs appointed by the “ecumenical” patriarch are: Archbishop Daniel of Pamphylia from the United States and Bishop Hilarion of Edmonton from Canada.

The Moscow Patriarchate condemned the decision of the Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew, accusing him of invading the canonical territory of another local church.

The Russian Orthodox Church threatened to break the Eucharistic communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople and threatened with an extremely tough response if the UOC was granted autocephaly.

Experts predict in Ukraine a new surge in the aggressiveness of nationalist organizations whose activities are aimed at seizing churches and other property of the Moscow Patriarchate.

Comments

[bouncyhunter]

Without the United States in any way: the State Department will support the split of the Ukrainian religious community

Well, where without them. Ears of split from where do they grow? It is strange that even the little shaved have not signed, but this is a matter of time ...

[Vovad]

But still it seems that the state religion of Russia is a certain AUE ...
here some people can declare independence) Blogger, which is better not to talk! ;)
Otherwise, the whole chat will "shut up" ...)

[vkl.47]

We’ve gone somewhere wrong. We are talking about the church. For them, the main thing is to break all the spiritual bonds. What has been built for centuries

[Tatyana]

Church wars in all countries historically are no wonder.
Church-religious — essentially business-ideological — corporations themselves are being built, like all other secular business corporations, on a globalist basis, i.e. crossing any boundaries of national states. If this, of course, is allowed on the part of the authorities of the national state - either as a result of the betrayal of the state-national authorities in the country, or because of the establishment of a foreign colonial regime in the country.

Ultimately, historically, all religious wars were and are being waged in the interests of the administrative elite-oligarchic "top" of any particular church, wherever in the world it is located, as well as in the interests of other religious-bureaucratic bureaucracy for their own "nourishment" - of course, for account of the believing people.

As a result, in Ukraine, the Russian Orthodox Church - with all its courtyards and churches - will be trampled from Ukraine by force, since any business - including religious - is protected either by armed forces or by corrupt bribing of authorities by the aggressor.

In Constantinople, the same thing: power structures in Ukraine and US money decide everything in favor of the opponents of the Russian Orthodox Church and against Russia itself.

[Govorun]

Quiet-Quiet-Quiet .... Calm down Tatyana, all is well, take a deep breath and exhale and go and wash yourself with cold water, otherwise you obviously have something boiling in your head

[Pravodel]

With the introduction of false patriarchate in Ukraine, history makes a circuit and the situation goes back to the times of the Union of Brest: to the times when the Catholics in the person of the Orthodox lands of Kievan Rus, the Jesuits, sent by the pope, tried to introduce Catholicism, convert the Orthodox people to Catholicism.
What came of this? Uniates appeared, hating the Orthodox, and with the support of the Poles, taking over Orthodox churches, destroying Orthodox priests and the Orthodox people. As a result, riots and uprisings of the Little Russians, which were subdued by the Poles with incredible cruelty, constantly flashed on the lands of present-day Ukraine - Little Russia. This continued until the XNUMXth century, when under Alexei Mikhailovich Tishayshem Little Russia did not join Russia. The persecution of the Orthodox immediately stopped, the churches were returned, and Little Russia began to flourish.
By the way, the union was just invented because the Orthodox completely refused to convert to Catholicism. To deceive the Orthodox people and force them to convert to Catholicism, special measures were needed in which, under the appearance of preserved Orthodoxy, the predatory face of the Jesuit, who crosses the Orthodox into Catholics, was hidden: for the Orthodox, nothing changes, everything is preserved as before, only instead of the patriarch now - dad sitting in the Vatican ...
Now Ukraine has returned to the times until the XVII century. the only difference being that the place of the Jesuits and Poles was taken by the Nazis nationalists, supported by Uniates, schismatics, who also hate the Orthodox, now Muscovites, like Poles, Catholics in the past.
The sharpness of the religious confrontation in Ukraine is given by the betrayal of the Patriarch of Constantinople. But there is nothing unusual here, the history of Orthodoxy remembers the Union of Lyons in 1274 and the Florentine Union in 1439, when the hierarchs of Byzantium went to the pope with a request to join the Catholic Church. The union was rejected at first by the people of Byzantium, and, subsequently, by the people of Moscow Russia. Treason of the Greeks - as the priests of Byzantium were called in Russia, religious heresy, evasion of Catholicism encouraged Russia to introduce patriarchate, which was done in 1589, when Job was elected patriarch in Russia. Russia took upon itself the great cross of our Lord, became the Third Rome and 4 Rome not to be.
The main question: can the Orthodox be drowned and converted to Catholicism? History shows that no, this is impossible. Yes, some part of the Orthodox people, either through illiteracy or from mercenary motives, will go into schism, but the majority of the people will not accept schism, will remain in the bosom of the mother of the church, and history will be repeated in the key described above: persecution of the Orthodox, killing of priests capture of temples, etc. What will such actions lead to? History also indicates: Little Russia will return to Russia, return to its homeland. It is hard to say how much time will be needed for this, but taking into account the growing degradation of Ukraine itself, I think it’s not long to wait. The return will occur even with this generation of the people of Ukraine.

“People-State-Fatherland” is the slogan of every Russian patriot: a strong state, a united nation, prospering for centuries the Fatherland, which cannot be broken by internal and external enemies.

[Opera]

Any "religious" war has an absolutely clear economic basis, more precisely a geostrategic one! Believers have nothing to fight with each other, by definition! From the word at all! Sects and any religious extremists have nothing to do with God! This is a purely political project. Likewise, the current attempt at splitting is a purely political issue aimed at the final creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine! No need, Tatyana, to mix everything up - Faith and politics are concepts of an incomparable nature.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Oper

It’s not necessary, Tatyana, to mix everything together - Faith and politics are notions of a disparate nature.

First of all, did you yourself understand what you said? And secondly, you yourself were mistaken.

First of all, I speak not so much about religious faith as about church hierarchies. At the same time, you yourself do not confuse the flock of parishioners with the clergy and their corporate-religious policy!
Religious believers and the church itself (its administrative apparatus) are two different things.
REFERENCE
Hierarchy (from other Greek: ἱεραρχία, from ἱερός “sacred” and ἀρχή “reign”) - the order of subordination of lower links to higher ones, their organization into a structure of the “tree” type; management principle in centralized structures, which is in the nature of a closed CORPORATION in relation to other structures.

[Opera]

And you, Tanya, did you read what you wrote yourself ?! I am not confusing anything. I repeat, Faith and politics are concepts of a completely different order! Equally as a sincerely religious person (maybe a politician) and a politician who does not believe in the faith of people speculating! I'm afraid you just don't understand what I'm talking about. And why do I need your information on the hierarchy? As John of Kronstadt said, democracy in hell, Kingdom in heaven! The Lord gave man freedom of choice. Here is the person who controls it. Can it be that the Constantinople "hierarch" is a believing Christian setting up a turmoil in Orthodoxy ?! Of course not. And the Kiev sectarian devoted to anaphima ?! No, either! What kind of a religious corporation is this ?! These are ordinary careerists to the faith and, in general, to religious canonical views have nothing to do with! Yesterday the communist Kalashnikov, in his 60-minute program, deigned to talk about the communist flock defending Lenin's monuments in Ukraine ... Oh, how! This, Tanya, what is the same faith and the religious corporation of the Communist Party ?! Here I am telling you Faith and human passions should not be dumped.

[Moskovit]

It is necessary to be baptized when it seems.

[tap]

And what do Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and others do when it seems?

[Paranoid50]

Quote: zapfen

What do Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and others do when it seems?

Muslims to perform namaz
Buddhists - go to nirvana
Hebrews - do gesheft

[tap]

This religion would be separated from the state.

[210ox]

Good morning, Pasha. The split and the fenders are the same ..

[bouncyhunter]

Hi Dima! Here I am about the same. It is difficult (if at all possible) to find in the world some kind of dirty trick against the Russians because of which striped ears would not stick out.

[Barzha]

Well, where without them

Of course! Supporting everything that leads to division and chaos in the enemy's territory is a nice thing! And the "ecumenical-Istanbul" patriarch lives on grants from the State Department. Why shouldn't he pour water on the mill of the Americans?

[Normal ok]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Well, where without them. Ears of split from where do they grow?

"The ears of the split" grow from the same place where the collapse of the USSR grew. From the desire of local elites to secure local assets. And there is something to fix, the ROC, represented by the UOC-MP, is the largest owner of real estate in Ukraine. In addition, one third of the parishioners of the ROC are in the UOC-MP.

[Olddetractor]

The reasons are more likely economic, the panda intends to appropriate the property of the bride of Christ and urgently realize it (most likely to lay it). They won’t usually think about anything else.

[ANCIENT]

We support the "return" to the "historical homeland" in the United States of militants from Syria, including ISIS and Nusrochs.

[Tatyana]

Quote: ANCIENT

We support the "return" to the "historical homeland" in the United States of militants from Syria, including ISIS and Nusrochs.

Trump does not need problems in the United States with ISIS Muslim migrants - and Trump, with his new migration laws, has already limited the resettlement of Muslim migrants to the United States from all over the world, except for highly qualified specialists, and to the rest he ordered a complete "turn from the gate" right at the border USA.

[bessmertniy]

It seems that the Americans decided to warm up the Ukrainian conflict with a religious conflict. Moreover, relations between religious faiths in Ukraine today are far from smooth.

[bald]

Here are two more "authoritative" ones, according to their inclination towards minorities, showed up. This is from countries where almost universal sectarianism flourishes - they burn in hell.

[Avior]

the main thing is not in the USA, but in how many priests of the Russian Orthodox Church will escape to the Ukrainian autocephalous church, when the situation reverses, the UOC will become legal and autocephalous, and the Russian Orthodox Church will be splitters.

[Romario_Argo]

The US goal in Ukraine is to drive a count of hatred of Russia - preferably years on 100500 (!)

[Normal ok]

Quote: Romario_Argo

The US goal in Ukraine is to drive a count of hatred of Russia (!)

The Russian authorities and the Russian media are successfully coping with this task.

[Hypatius]

Still, Gundiai should not have squeezed out a church in Nice from Bartholomew that was loved by our oligarchs. His greed will have to loosen up for many and a long time. The schismatics have been asking autocephaly for a long time, and Constantinople has made its move just now.

[BAI]

Now, if the situation were mirror-Ukraine, it would have unambiguously stated that it would withdraw from the Istanbul Patriarchate if the ROC was recognized. If the Istanbul Patriarchate is going to split, the Russian Orthodox Church needs to get out of it, especially since the Russian Orthodox Church enjoys the support of a number of churches - including the Alexandria and Jerusalem, which are equal in ancient times to Istanbul.

[bober1982]

But, there is no Istanbul Patriarchate, and Ukraine cannot leave it, it has never been there, like the Russian Orthodox Church, for the same reason it cannot leave it, and how .........Ukraine, would definitely say that it will be ........ if the ROC is recognized., all this is difficult to understand.
Probably, we need to take a break in the discussion of this topic.

[rruvim]

Question by the way in this. Does the Russian Orthodox Church recognize autocephaly? In the framework of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, of course not. But within the framework of the Council of Local Churches it can. Here is the question for Bishop Onufry. Which side will he be on? He already did, at one time, lengthy statements ....

[bober1982]

Quote: rruvim

But within the framework of the Council of Local Churches it can.

The eighth cathedral? Wolfish?

[Tank hard]

Satanists revived ...

[bober1982]

Quote: Tank Hard

Satanists revived ...

Rejoicing

[RL]

In the USA there is a bunch, even a very big bunch of different religions. And nothing, they live and live. And here we have the Russian Orthodox Church of Moscow and the Serbian Autocephalous and Catholics, Greek Catholics, and Protestants, and Islam, and Buddhists, and whoever is not there, and sects are different. Do not bother. Who does not know how to think and decide for themselves, let him believe what he wants. The main thing is that they should not force others to believe - they will put him in prison. All on a voluntary basis. And we have the most atheistic country in the world.
I want to ask: Is Orthodoxy already a state religion in Russia? And then these cherno.opniki began to climb into arrogant civilian life and in state institutions. How do I know? In the summer I visited Moscow on business. Saw.

[rruvim]

In Russia, this is metaphysical. Temples for the twelve and great holidays are packed with people. Dozens of babies are carried to communion. Already "grandmothers" make up a third of the parishioners. Nobody kicks the people into the Temples ... They make sites for foreign cars, tk. on holidays and Sundays all the neighboring streets are packed with cars near the Temples. And this is not fashion. And not officials go there. Ordinary people. Different. And intellectuals and "tramps", businessmen and "hard workers". There are more women, of course.
But in Russia there has always been one faith - the Orthodox faith, everything else does not take root. And for Muslims, there is also room ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: RL

In the USA there is a bunch, even a very big bunch of different religions. And nothing, they live and live.

Even Satanism. Are you not a Satanist?

[Curious]

Problem escalation begins where it does not exist. Moreover, all sorts of "couch third-Romanians" will put in a penny, who do not understand anything about this problem at all.
In 1996, with the support of the Estonian authorities, the Ecumenical Patriarch restored the action of the Tomos on the autonomy of the Estonian church. So what? For some time, very serious disputes arose between Constantinople and Moscow, and for some time the two pillars of world Orthodoxy ceased church relations.
Then the passions subsided, there was an understanding that there was no way "back", the ROC and the Ecumenical Patriarch did agree that two Orthodox canonical churches coexist in Estonia - subordinate to Constantinople and Moscow, and the parishes themselves chose who to belong to.
The same, in fact, is expected in Ukraine.
To understand the issue, it is very useful to recall the history of the autocephaly of the Russian Orthodox Church, after reading the archpriest; the outstanding Russian religious thinker, theologian, philosopher and historian Georgy Vasilievich Florovsky, in particular, "The Ways of Russian Theology".

[Zhurba]

Judging from the last speech of Zatulin, the preservation of the ROC department in Ukraine is a triune task for this state. According to this, faith and Orthodoxy itself are completely absent here.