The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world

Ukraine is on the verge of a new war, in comparison with which even the current civil war may seem to be “flowers”, despite thousands and thousands of its victims. This is a truly serious danger of a religious war. And this danger is connected with the actual willingness of the Constantinople patriarch to recognize the so-called autocephaly of the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate. Behind the intricacies of the relationship between various Orthodox conglomerates, when decisions are made in private, there is a great danger not only for Ukrainian believers, but also for the whole of world Orthodoxy, which actually turned out to be an abyss of schism.

The essence of the matter is that literally a few days after the "fraternal" meeting with the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, Kirill, the Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the United States and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt to legitimize the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate, which was previously unrecognizable in the Orthodox world, headed by Filaret (Denisenko).

In the Russian Orthodox Church they say directly that a war has been declared in Constantinople throughout world Orthodoxy, since Bartholomew “usurped the right of primacy of honor”, ​​deciding that he is free to make decisions for all Orthodox Christians. It should be noted here that in Orthodoxy there is no “earthly leader”, and Jesus Christ is considered the head of the church - therefore all decisions are made at the councils with the invitation of the heads of all the churches. Bartholomew decided to try on the "clothes" of the so-called "Eastern Pope".

From the statement of the head of the Department for External Church Relations of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk (TK "Russia24)":

The Patriarchate of Constantinople, thus, now openly embarked on the warpath. And this war is not only against the Russian Church, not only against the Ukrainian Orthodox people. This war, in essence, is against the unity of all world Orthodoxy.

Experts point out that a real war can begin in Ukraine not only for the minds of Ukrainians, but also for church property. And in this war earlier radicals have already manifested themselves, which carry out a frank seizure of temples.

It must be stated that sometimes it is the wars on religious grounds in stories civilizations became the most protracted and brought rivers of blood.

Western “partners”, for whom the security services are clearly behind, amid the latest events are clearly ready to accept congratulations from interested persons on the largest-scale schism in the entire history of Orthodoxy. Many compare this schism with the schism of the Christian church into Orthodox and Catholic (it was in the XI century).

Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. In this regard, it is quite clear who is directed against the decision to bring a split into the vast Orthodox world.

Comments

[Observer2014]

The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world

Call it what you want. It amazes against the background of worldly problems with what decisiveness the ROC acts !!!! And what can not be avoided. Our worldly rulers have something to learn. There are no shades in relations and second and tenth warnings and chances to change your mind. Instant and harsh reaction.

Bartholomew decided to try on the “clothes” of the so-called “Eastern Pope”.

the crown will fly off quickly or the "oriental dad" will reap without a flock.

[210ox]

Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?

[For example]

Russian Orthodox Church. Without abbreviations. Or where are we in a hurry?
The head of our church is Jesus Christ.
If God is with me, then who is against me?

Quote: 210ox

Announce anathema?

This is for you pinned? Type snapped? Where's the emoticon?

Our church has always been a civilizational foundation. And it's not about property. The thing is that the Turk decided to become a Turkish pope. I decided to dictate. Dictate to the Russians.
Constantinople does not smell here. He is just a Turk.

[OrcSWAT]

All sorts of predictions pop up in my memory about the war between Russia and Turkey, God forbid that these were forerunners.

[Stas157]

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Stas157

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

I would share the Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church

[For example]

Quote: Stirbjorn

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.

[Stas157]

Quote: For example

And she is basis our Russian world.

I have nothing against the Orthodox Church, all the more so since all my relatives are Orthodox ... but, why did the communist Putin, having dressed the cross, still not be able to unite Russia and Ukraine, as two parts of one whole Russian world? Under the USSR, we were together without this basics, and now, despite the fact that the church is in favor, it itself will now break up into the UOC and the Russian Orthodox Church.

[Alena Frolovna]

Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation

And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

Communist Putin wearing a cross, could not unite Russia and Ukraine

And what is the Lord Putin to unite something and why he had to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged to put the right thoughts into every Ukrainian head and make him read the right books.

Also:

And about basis:

This BASIS - THE ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this. Without faith, not life, but simply existence.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Alena Frolovna

Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation

And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

Communist Putin wearing a cross, could not unite Russia and Ukraine

And what is the Lord Putin to unite something and why he had to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged to put the right thoughts into every Ukrainian head and make him read the right books.

Also:

And about basis:

This BASIS - THE ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this. Without faith, not life, but simply existence.

Firstly, we were together before the USSR. Yes, yes, there is such a funny thing, history. Funny because everyone twirls it as he wants. Old Russian princes turned over in their graves when they became Ukrainian from Russians, and they didn’t even know such a word. And despite family ties, some were declared Muscovites, and others Ukrainians. Therefore, we were together formally and in fact, we have a common history.
Secondly, "And what is Putin the Lord to unite something and why should he do it?" Here I partially agree, to Putin to the Lord, as to Kiev with cancer. And about the rallying, well. Instead of rallying under Putin, we really got, on the contrary, further division in the post-Soviet space, as well as growing division and stratification in the state, of which he is the president, well, division under him reached the Russian Orthodox Church. Those. the tendency is that the next manifestation of such government may be the division and disintegration of the Russian Federation. That's right, first in the minds, and then in fact. Why is the nationwide rally to him? I agree, he doesn't need it. He has his own close-knit team (Medvedev, Chubais and others) and together they mow the loot together, not to the rest.
And the last: "This BASIS - ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this"
There is a modern example: the split of the Russian Orthodox Church, albeit by external efforts, is it a manifestation of the strength of the enemies or our strength? Write: there are many examples of this. Are there any contemporary examples besides the split? No, that the Russian people will win, I DO NOT Doubt. SHOULD win, the Russian people were formed at too high a price, I cannot believe in the senselessness of such a price. But this victory will be both over internal enemies (Putin and his friends) and over external ones (Russia, albeit partially, will restore its historical territory). Will the Orthodox faith underlie such a victory? It may well be, but only without the oligarchs from the Russian Orthodox Church (expensive watches, expensive cars, yachts, planes). And other, so "necessary" "church" utensils.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Leshy1975

ROC split

Question! And where in the article is written about the split Russian Orthodox Church?
Incidentally, the struggle between Constantinople and Moscow for the right to dominate the Orthodox world has been going on since the fall of the Byzantine Empire.

[Stas157]

Quote: Alena Frolovna

And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

Alena, let me conduct an educational program, Ukraine and the RSFSR were one state in the USSR. And before that Little Russia was generally a historical region of the Russian Empire. And not at all formally, but naturally, as one contemporary classic, whom you respect in every possible way, said: - "Ukraine and Russia are one people."

Quote: Alena Frolovna

And what is Putin Lord to rally something and why did he have to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged

Then let it give way to another! This is the very first task, the main role, of the true leader of the nation - rally nation (usually around a national idea, not bare patriotism). It is clear that the current Guarantor does not at all play the role of leader ... But he doesn’t have a national idea either!

[Dart2027]

Quote: Stas157

Before that, Little Russia was generally a historical area of ​​the Russian Empire.

But why the hell was to create this Ukraine?

[free]

Without faith, not life, but simply existence.
So the foundation of faith can be different! You don’t need to destroy Orthodoxy, believe it. Although any materialist will tell you that religion does not stand up to criticism, logic is stubborn. The moral foundation of Orthodoxy is correct, but there is nothing more to take from there.

[g graph]

so one can believe not only in the Orthodox god. There are many gods, as well as their disciples. And you can also believe in the forces of nature, the spirit of the family, the ancestors, the strength of the body, the strength of the spirit, the commune and just in people.

Read books on the "Orthodox Christianization" of Rus. In what ways and sacrifices Orthodoxy came. In Eastern Siberia, 90% of the population was massacred. This is the story that they do not want to talk about out loud.

[oracul]

Fear God! Before sculpting such numbers, give facts, not invent from the head.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: ggraph

Read books on the "Orthodox Christianization" of Russia. In what ways and sacrifices Orthodoxy came. 90% of the population was massacred in Eastern Siberia

ABOUT! And also Circassians, Pomors, etc. They cut out everyone and everything, and then they cloned and repopulated it. Stop! If they cut it out, then where did all the local Buddhists go? And how then is Buddhism, the bulk of the followers of which in Russia lives in Siberia, the second largest religion in Russia in terms of followers?

[Sweetheart]

Quote: Alena Frolovna

Also:

You put this Judas. Denikinak what?
to remind you how this battered White Guard advised the Americans how to destroy Russia \ USSR?
I remind you. https://cont.ws/@Colonel-Cassad/1038969
you have good authorities ... one of the figures Nikolashka is the second, you have Denikin .. and the result is one, the country was destroyed ...

[Govorun]

And what does Putin have to do with it ??? There was one ideology under the USSR, and as you say, you lived tightly ... how long and how long you lived like that ... 70 years old?!. And what later became of the USSR, it fell apart and the reason is clear, it’s a betrayal, and that’s a betrayal one, it contributed to the separation of people in the church, as happened with the division of churches into eastern and western, so that certainly Putin is not at all sideways, and now this is pure provocation to the separation of Orthodoxy from within.

[Alex777]

In the press it was that Poroshenko brought to Constantinople $ 10 million and promised another 15 when the tomos received.
The offices of the UOC in the states and Canada, he back in the 90s cellar. I want to eat something.

[freejack]

Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation, and now ... it will fall apart into the UOC and the Russian Orthodox Church.

In my opinion, the matter is not in Putin, and not in the USSR ..... Just in those days, the Anglo-Saxon fire-breathing still didn’t conduct its satanic dance between the minds and souls of Russians and Ukrainians ... There was always a gap between us, but such a gap began to appear in the gracious (for not pure strength) 91-m ... Here. We have reached the absurd apogee ... Or maybe we are still on the way to it ??? .....

[Lara Croft]

Quote: For example

Quote: Stirbjorn

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.

Fear God and ignorance of history, the ROC gained independence from Constantinople in the 16th century, which are 1 years old?
The priests did not divide power again, it was already with the same Constantinople ...

[Stalingradpobeda]

Not priests, but priests.

[Nikolay Fedorov]

Quote: Stas157

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world? At least somewhere in the article or in someone else’s comment, besides yours, something similar was said ?! Or is it important for you to inject a thought so that it goes on for a walk?

[Stas157]

Quote: Nikolai Fedorov

Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world?

And you are only ready to throw charges, or are you able to apologize too?
We carefully read the text:

Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt the legitimization of the previously unrecognized in the Orthodox world UOC Kiev Patriarchate led by Filaret (Denisenko)

What is this if not an attempt to split the Russian world and fragment the Russian Orthodox Church? Read on!

in Orthodoxy there are approximately 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space. In this regard it is quite clear who the decision to split in the vast Orthodox world is directed against.

I even specially highlighted the text where Alexey Volodin pointed out this directly! What is interesting about this meant a respected author?

[Nikolay Fedorov]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Nikolai Fedorov

Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world?

We carefully read the text:

Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt the legitimization of the previously unrecognized in the Orthodox world UOC Kiev Patriarchate led by Filaret (Denisenko)

What is this if not an attempt to split the Russian world and fragment the Russian Orthodox Church? Read on!

in Orthodoxy there are approximately 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space. In this regard it is quite clear who the decision to split in the vast Orthodox world is directed against.

Truly - I look into the book, I see a fig. How did you manage to form the phrase "the Orthodox Church against the Russian world" from what you were concentrating on here for me? How did you get the idea that Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople is the Orthodox Church, and his actions should be viewed as actions of the Orthodox Church?
And your persistence in upholding the idea you have thrown in allows you not only to guess, but to be sure of the correctness of my initial appeal.

[Klingon]

Why is the church at all? I'm just troubled by the assertive religiosity of the government, the elites and ..opium for the people! Where did science remain, as in the era of the USSR? What kind of church is sprinkling rockets and bombs with holy water? Medieval obscurantism 2.0

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Klingon

Why is the church at all? I'm just troubled by the assertive religiosity of the government, the elites and ..opium for the people! Where did science remain, as in the era of the USSR? What kind of church is sprinkling rockets and bombs with holy water? Medieval obscurantism 2.0

This is not obscurantism. Orthodoxy itself is not at all considered obscurantism. Just here, for the authorities and leadership of the modern Russian Orthodox Church there is a significant mutual benefit. The Russian Orthodox Church shares its authority with the authorities (well, the president stood next to the patriarch and bowed, which means he’s a good person, we will support him), and in return the government is divided immediately more material (transfer of property, including previously owned, legislative curtsy, etc.) Both are beneficial. This also relates to the people, the object of such joint actions is the people. Here to spirituality, hardly. Because there are no contemporary examples of highly spiritual deeds from either the authorities or high priests. (from the government for sure, about the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church, maybe I’m not aware, although we know about the reverse examples)

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Klingon

Medieval obscurantism 2.0

In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
Obscurantism and jazz
The idols bring themselves into electric ecstasy
In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
Obscurantism and jazz
Oh, you won’t believe: everything is stolen before us ...
Obscurantism and jazz ...
E. Shklyarsky ("Picnic")

[Don]

Quote: OrcSWAT

All sorts of predictions pop up in my memory about the war between Russia and Turkey, God forbid that these were forerunners.

"The one who has fallen in spirit is the first to perish." What scares you so much about a possible war with Turkey? We fought with them either 11 times or 12 times. We always won, with the exception of one war. No one overseas would really risk their head over the Ottomans. And Bartholomew, with him everything is already clear. This is to be expected. As my teacher of higher mathematics used to say: where it is thin, there it breaks.

[bober1982]

Quote: Donskoy

What scares you so much in a possible war with Turkey?

The Turks are here sideways, I can’t understand if it weren’t for the American friends of Bartholomew, he would have been thrown out of Turkey long ago.

[jjj]

Exactly. Bartholomew feeds about five percent of the Orthodox. And his parishes, basically, are in the USA. For us, he is nobody. The Lord will judge everyone

[himRa]

Quote: For example

Our church has always been a civilizational foundation.

You know the proverb:
,, Monday is a hard day, "
I can tell the story of the onna ...
And this does not happen at all in the Soviet period.
When Russia adopted Christianity, those who were not at Sunday prayers in the church were blasted !!!
And it should be noted that the Russians stubbornly did not want to forget their ancient gods and the transition process took centuries, and some were never accepted!
Further: I can not agree with the author of the article: about the most bloody wars due to religion ... the most bloody were 1 and WWII
and the Japanese did not destroy the Chinese out of faith!
In our enlightened world, it is not in vain that almost all the countries of the world have separated the church from the state ... believe in a “higher power”
those of the human race who do not want to learn, receive, and create new knowledge, thanks to which mankind has survived in a fierce struggle in the past!

[Examenatornick]

found something to get to the bottom. Someone apparently "ROC" writes in abbreviated form. Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Examenatornick

Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

Wow, what are you flaunting! Anathema, definitely!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Quote: Examenatornick

Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

Wow, what are you flaunting! Anathema, definitely!

And from members of the forum with the Soviet flag ....

[sir_obs]

then look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

They did not study well at school. According to the rules of spelling, it is written with a capital (capital) letter, as a proper name and no more, but not always.

In the practice of writing over the past two decades, the requirement of the "Rules of Russian Spelling and Punctuation" of 1956 to lowercase many names associated with religion (such a rule in 1956 was due to ideological reasons) was overcome. Now the words God, Lord, Mother of God, etc., are recommended to be written with a capital letter. Moreover, the point is not in the religious position of the writer (it can be any), but in the fact that the words God, Lord, Mother of God, Allah, etc. are individual names, which are actually proper names.
in all texts (religious and non-religious) it is recommended to write: God, if we mean a single supreme being in monotheistic religions. In the plural forms, as well as in the meaning of one of the many gods or in the figurative meaning, the word god is written with a lowercase: the gods of Olympus, the god Apollo, the god of war.
C capital letters are recommended to write and adjectives formed from the word God: God, Divine. In the figurative meaning, only a lowercase letter is used: the divine taste, the grandmother of God’s dandelion.
In stable combinations used in colloquial speech outside of a direct connection with religion, the word god (and also God) should be written only with a lowercase letter. Regardless of the religious position of the writer, it would be a mistake to write to God. Also, an uppercase letter is impossible in such a context: everything is not thanks to God for him

[jjj]

When in vain is mentioned, as in this case, then we must write with a little one. With the title - in prayer or in conversion. In general, for God, our vanity and fuss is of no importance. He is integrity and immutability

[ver_]

..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

[Lara Croft]

Quote: ver_

..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

Speak the truth! Everywhere Jews alone ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: ver_

..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

... Karl Marx, the father of ideas, was also a Jew in childhood ...

[Observer2014]

210ox (Dmitry.

But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema?

And now let’s look at how pious our president is. Here you will have to maneuver steeper. Here the interests of the Russian Orthodox Church will be implicated And this is not the stinky factories of Akhmetov and so on. And not real estate according to landones are different. There is a thousand-year-old layer. The monolith and the foundation of the Russian land will be at stake.

[raw174]

Quote: Observer2014

And now let’s look at how pious our president is.

Things will not go beyond statements. In any case, I hope so ... There is no need to put religious affairs higher or on a par with state ones ...

[Vanek]

Quote: Observer2014

will be at stake.

Why will it be? Or maybe already?

[rruvim]

Absolutely agree. The defense of the Crimea in 1854-55 m (the reason) began because of the impossibility of Russian pilgrims to "fall" to the Holy Sepulcher. Now they are trying to deprive us of the canonical territory on the outskirts. There has never been a Patriarchate of Constantinople! And the task of the Brigadier is to prevent this "invasion". Faith and the Russian Orthodox Church is the last stronghold that unites us Russians with our Russian Outskirts of the people. This is the last connection. It is unacceptable to destroy it!

[raw174]

Quote: 210ox

Worldly authorities did not lift a finger when they burned people in Odessa.

So their representatives burned, it was the companions of the authorities, what should they have done?

[dauria]

What will the ROC do with the inevitable seizure of property?

She will try to raise unrest among believers in Ukraine. Property is holy Enough illusions. Any church that is not controlled by the government of a given country is an agent of the enemy's influence. If the Russian Orthodox Church had a control center in Washington or Kiev, would they tolerate it in Moscow? So they will be squeezed out on the sly, and after a couple of generations they will be replaced with their own "Orthodox" one. And do not look at the church as something special - it is just an office within the state, living according to its laws, nothing more. Either he helps the government and receives "benefits", or interferes and receives "persecution."

[tap]

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

God and God's servants are often two big differences. God is a soul. The Church is an institution of power. Roughly like "servants of the people" and the people themselves.
I think so...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

[raw174]

Quote: Krasnodar

faith and religion are two different things.

Right! faith - the beliefs of man. Someone believes in money, someone in the power of power, someone in the power of arms, someone in the family, someone in justice, someone in a higher power, each has his own, and religion is a way to control the masses, propaganda, if you want .

[jjj]

In fact, the only purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation.

[raw174]

Quote: jjj

the purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation

From whom or what will she point the way? But the church of the Kiev Patriarchate will not indicate? ..

[free]

Quote: jjj

In fact, the only purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation.

Well, what is this path to salvation?

[jjj]

Understand that you are sinful, that you yourself cannot cope with passions, repent of sins and ask the Lord for mercy

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Krasnodar

Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

No need to apologize for stupidity. "To whom the Church is not a mother, God is not a father" (Cyprian of Carthage).
Would be a little "in the subject" would have refrained from such silly maxims.
By the way, just as you reasoned with Luther and your supporters, you can judge where it led by the Protestant movement: somewhere the Sodomites are ordained bishops, somewhere they baptize the long dead, and some of these faiths generally thought of denying all Christian values .

[Krasnodar]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: Krasnodar

Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

No need to apologize for stupidity. "To whom the Church is not a mother, God is not a father" (Cyprian of Carthage).
Would be a little "in the subject" would have refrained from such silly maxims.
By the way, just as you reasoned with Luther and your supporters, you can judge where it led by the Protestant movement: somewhere the Sodomites are ordained bishops, somewhere they baptize the long dead, and some of these faiths generally thought of denying all Christian values .

Take an interest in why Kuraev was removed from office, firstly, and the statement of Kiprian of Carthage is given by pharisaism in its purest form, and secondly. And who condemned Pharisaism, you, as an Orthodox Christian, should know.

[EwgenyZ]

Kuraev said a lot of things, God is his judge.
What is the Pharisaism of Cyprian of Carthage? That He repeated the words of Jesus about the church?

[Krasnodar]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Kuraev said a lot of things, God is his judge.
What is the Pharisaism of Cyprian of Carthage? That He repeated the words of Jesus about the church?

Quote the words of Jesus, pliz. About the church in sources known to me (if the Jewish book is a congregation, the root word Beit and the Knesset is a synagogue, or the Knesset is a parliament) can generally be translated like this.
And I believe Kuraev - he is a decent person, silver-free and not a grabber.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote the words of Jesus, pliz.

"and I say to you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; (Matthew 16:18)
"Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20)

[Krasnodar]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote the words of Jesus, pliz.

"and I say to you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; (Matthew 16:18)
"Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20)

The first passage I know very well, Question, what is common between the words of Jesus about the church (or rather, the assembly based on faith) and the passage you quoted from Capriana of Carthage? Jesus says literally “and I tell you, you are Peter (in Greek, Peter is a rock, the real name of the apostle Shimon. Jesus called Shimon a rock because of unshakable faith.) And on this stone I (why I think you understand the stone) will create church (in the original Hebrew book), i.e. a meeting that the gates of hell will not prevail - i.e. our unshakable faith will not succumb to the temptations leading to hell.
Now let’s analyze “to whom the church (already a religious institute) is not a mother, Gd is not a father” - that is, if a religious institute is not nice to you, then you don’t believe in Gd. Pharisaism! Jesus taught to pray silently, to conduct a dialogue with the Supreme Mind in private, and not to do it for show, like the Pharisees. Conclusion - the creation of a religious institution in the name of Christ is completely contrary to his teaching. Sorry to hurt someone’s feelings.

[free]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

Faith condition, religion doctrine. Teaching giving faith can be different.

[raw174]

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god?

[Krasnodar]

Quote: raw174

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god?

Atheism, in my personal conviction, is also a faith, and a strong one! Because to prove mathematically that such a complex thing as an eye lens, joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process - possible. With a probability of 1/1000000000000000

[ver_]

... Duc it did not immediately create - hundreds of millions of years have passed ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: ver_

... Duc it did not immediately create - hundreds of millions of years have passed ...

And all without reasonable control? Great is your faith, ver_

[raw174]

Quote: Krasnodar

lens of the eye, fastening joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process

If you take a little interest, then all these things are not so complicated, everything is described in detail, including the history of their appearance and rudimentation. Evolution however ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: raw174

Quote: Krasnodar

lens of the eye, fastening joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process

If you take a little interest, then all these things are not so complicated, everything is described in detail, including the history of their appearance and rudimentation. Evolution however ...

Well, modern science still has not understood the nature of the nervous system of fish and mammals, the lens of the human eye and the synchronization of the optic nerve with the brain cannot be repeated by a person, etc. etc. In short, I believe that the highest intelligent force that created the world and controls it exists. I call her Gd. Personally, I believe that Gd is one for all, and any religion is a means of power and business. I do not impose my opinion on anyone.

[raw174]

Quote: Krasnodar

I do not impose my opinion on anyone.

It is right! I always say that a person can believe that he is closer, can worship anyone or not, this is his personal until he begins to harm others, forcibly instill his convictions. In the case under discussion, the Russian Orthodox Church is trying to impart its views everywhere in Ukraine, but this is not true. They want to break away, but ensign in their hands!

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: raw174

But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god?

We were also told at school that the "Unbreakable Union" ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: zapfen

It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

Well, I'm godless, albeit baptized. What did you want to say?

[Barzha]

And about the church property and say no .. Although ... Maybe at least it will move them?

Yes, I beg you! What, Russia will send troops to protect the Kiev Pechersk Lavra from being captured by schismatics?

[Overland whale]

In Ukraine, only the ancient monasteries and large old cathedrals are owned by the church. All other religious buildings and structures (from rural churches and to large parish churches in cities) are the property of religious communities, which at their own expense acquire church utensils, carry out major repairs, maintenance and restoration, and also contain a priest, whom they send at the request of the community diocese. All the churches of Ukraine have such a structure - the UOC-MP, the UOC-KP, the UAOC, and the UGCC. So no "war for property" is possible in Ukraine. The only thing that is possible is a "war" for control over parishes. But here the community decides everything. If the majority of parishioners of this or that parish are in favor of taking care of the priest of the UOC-MP, then no Bandera members will be able to do anything about it. As the parishioners decide, so it will be.

[Svateev]

Quote: Whale Land

no Bandera can do anything about it. As parishioners decide, so be it.

Unfortunately, according to the events in Odessa, we have already seen how "nothing can be done".
"All the great questions of history are ultimately decided by force" (VI Lenin)

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Keith Land

But here everything is decided by the community.

This was possible earlier, although not a fact. Remember how the Uniates drove the Orthodox out of churches. And now it will be decided by "Azov" and so on.

[Overland whale]

This happened in the lands of the West. Ukraine, which before joining the USSR were Uniate, and after entering "voluntarily" returned to the fold of Orthodoxy))). Well, when Ukraine became independent, then the former Uniates decided to return to their native faith. That once again confirms the truth that "you will not be lovely by force." The personal and conscious choice of each person is important to God, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will. And to drive people to heaven with a stick is nothing to do with God.

[Svateev]

Quote: Whale Land

It is important for God that each person’s own and informed choice, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will.

So that "Hitlers" could arrange world wars ?!

Why, under the godfather’s burden, is the right man all draining in blood?
Why is everywhere dishonest met with honor and glory?
Who is guilty? Or is not everything available to God on earth?
Or is he playing with us? This is mean and criminal!
(Heinrich Heine)

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Keith Land

It is important for God that each person’s own and informed choice, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will.

Who argues, only in modern Ukraine, unfortunately, now everything is decided by force ....

[Alber]

Quote: 210ox

Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?

The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Alber

Quote: 210ox

Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?

The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate

As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.

[Alber]

Quote: Krasnodar

The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate
As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.

))) Well, the Krasnodar Jews know better where your international Zionist brethren launched their tentacles ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Alber

Quote: Krasnodar

The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate
As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.

))) Well, the Krasnodar Jews know better where your international Zionist brethren launched their tentacles ...

In the hair of the hydra of pan-Arabism, I suppose At the same time undermining the collegiality and spirituality of the armadillo nation of Palestine, tormented by the Yids ... Amen.

[Serge Gorely]

Our priests are even cooler than EdRa ... Chatter and incompetence. I do not like maydaunov, but I have a question for fofudienos- why were you silent when the Georgian Orthodox Church became autocephalous? Where are the groans about the unity of Orthodoxy, a common history, fraternal peoples? Why did you put your tongue in one place when the Estonian Orthodox parishes under Constantinople left? When scared - we are silent, if it is profitable - we shout?

[raw174]

Quote: Observer2014

with what decisiveness does the Russian Orthodox Church operate !!!!

How do they work? What besides statements? Waving censer more active? Religion is a world of fantasies, you can speak as much as you like, it isn’t for the language.

[For example]

Quote: raw174

Religion is a world of fantasies, you can speak as much as you like, it isn’t for the language.

You are mistaken.
Criminal Code Article 148. Violation of the right to freedom of conscience and religion.
1. Public actions expressing a clear disrespect for society and committed in order to insult the religious feelings of believers, -
shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to three hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wages or other income for a period of up to two years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two hundred and forty hours, or forced labor for a term of up to one year, or imprisonment for the same term.

So that, Ravil, everything is in your hands. Go ahead. Verbiage is not doing well.

[raw174]

Quote: For example

You are mistaken.

UK I know pretty well. By your logic, if we are talking about the non-recognition of the Kiev Patriarchate (or whatever they have), we do not comply with our own law! Let them even believe in a stool, it's their own business! And without recognizing and publicly stating that their church is wrong, we do not insult their feelings?

[bober1982]

Quote: raw174

And without recognizing and publicly stating that their church is wrong, we do not insult their feelings?

So after all their church and does not exist walk in their "temples" is like going to the restroom them there is grace.

[raw174]

Quote: bober1982

their churches do not exist

Because we say that? After all, people came up with a god (all gods) ...

Quote: bober1982

going to their "temples" is like going to

any temple of any religion ...

[bober1982]

So after all, God gave freedom of choice, by the way, any believing person is truly a free person.

[raw174]

Quote: bober1982

So God has given freedom of choice

Fine, then why bother with these separation concerns? Let them separate to health!

[bober1982]

Quote: raw174

Fine

Really, great.
This is called not separation, but the intervention of hostile forces (including special services)

[raw174]

Quote: bober1982

This is called not separation, but the intervention of hostile forces (including special services)

Well, but I’ll say that an attempt to gather all those who want and do not want under one bosses is the desire to increase the flock and material capital, as well as strengthen their influence. If people decide that they don’t want to depend on the Moscow Patriarchate, let them determine themselves. But we let the Crimeans decide, let the believers decide what to rage about? ..

[bober1982]

Quote: raw174

let the believers decide what to rage about? ..

The Vatican and the CIA have determined who and how to determine.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: EwgenyZ

But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

Debatable. What is he sending there? Explain if you can.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: EwgenyZ

But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

Debatable. What is he sending there? Explain if you can.

Well, at least trials ... That's how this split.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

I didn’t want to interfere, but I catch you by the tongue. (I reject the bias towards Orthodoxy right away, I myself am baptized). Therefore, the questions are as follows:
1) Who exactly sent such gifts (did God send?) Or did the patriarch himself acquire?
2) Are such things useful and how exactly in matters of service to God, or vice versa, destroy faith in the church?
3) Why does the patriarch not refuse them or should he be considered not enough believers?

“Answering the question that“ His Holiness the Patriarch allegedly wears a very expensive watch, he allegedly has an expensive car fleet, a residence, ”the priest noted:“ When certain gifts are made, it is natural: people want their hierarchs to look no worse than representatives secular authorities, so that the temples look no worse than the residences of secular rulers ... ".

Recall, the fleet of Patriarch Kirill includes several Cadillac Escalade, Toyota Land Cruiser, Mercedes S-Class, including an armored modification.

Note that the question of expensive watches and cars of priests did not arise by chance. In 2009, the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, who was on a visit to the Donbass, told miners about crisis, money-grubbers, spiritual values ​​and destructive liberalism leading to hellwhile a brand watch flaunted on his hand Breguet worth up to 36 thousand euros... Read more here: https://ru.tsn.ua/svit/russkaya-cerkov-obyasnila-zachem-kirillu-dorogie-chasy-i-avtopark.html "

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Leshy1975

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

I didn’t want to interfere, but I catch you by the tongue. (I reject the bias towards Orthodoxy right away, I myself am baptized). Therefore, the questions are as follows:
1) Who exactly sent such gifts (did God send?) Or did the patriarch himself acquire?
2) Are such things useful and how exactly in matters of service to God, or vice versa, destroy faith in the church?
3) Why does the patriarch not refuse them or should he be considered not enough believers?

“Answering the question that“ His Holiness the Patriarch allegedly wears a very expensive watch, he allegedly has an expensive car fleet, a residence, ”the priest noted:“ When certain gifts are made, it is natural: people want their hierarchs to look no worse than representatives secular authorities, so that the temples look no worse than the residences of secular rulers ... ".

Recall, the fleet of Patriarch Kirill includes several Cadillac Escalade, Toyota Land Cruiser, Mercedes S-Class, including an armored modification.

Note that the question of expensive watches and cars of priests did not arise by chance. In 2009, the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, who was on a visit to the Donbass, told miners about crisis, money-grubbers, spiritual values ​​and destructive liberalism leading to hellwhile a brand watch flaunted on his hand Breguet worth up to 36 thousand euros... Read more here: https://ru.tsn.ua/svit/russkaya-cerkov-obyasnila-zachem-kirillu-dorogie-chasy-i-avtopark.html "

It is not for us to judge the patriarch. He must answer before God. And such things (including expensive watches, and a fleet of luxury cars) are sent us to check the fortress our faith.
There was a case: one boy asked how to trust the priests now? And it was like this: He found in the forest one "priest" when that "lane" of a peasant in the ass. How is it? There is only one answer: everyone has their own trials - that priest has to resist the sin of Sodom, the guy has to see the mentor behind the sin, and not lose faith ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

And according to the religion of my ancestors (I believe in Gd, and not in religion), money is sent to a person for good deeds, in a sign that this person is worthy of them. But if people spend them on themselves, and not on charity, then the Lord will deprive them of them.

[free]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

And according to the religion of my ancestors (I believe in Gd, not in religion), money is sent to a person for good deeds, as a sign that this person is worthy of them. But if people spend them on themselves, and not on charity, then the Lord will deprive them of them..

That is, God does not know in advance how you will spend the money? Randomly sends out?

[Svateev]

Quote: bober1982

By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

And don’t talk. So free is just awful! He believes in something that no one has ever seen and does not notice the obvious. Freedom from reality ...

[Examenatornick]

freedom from the ability to perform thought processes is called.

[free]

But what about insulting the feelings of unbelievers? Or is it already forbidden not to believe?

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: raw174

Religion is a fantasy world ..

Yeah, this "fantasy world" is the basis of our state, and all moral and ethical standards.

[raw174]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: raw174

Religion is a fantasy world ..

Yeah, this "fantasy world" is the basis of our state, and all moral and ethical standards.

The basis of our state is the experience of generations, both the religious period (pre-revolutionary) and secular (post-revolutionary).

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: raw174

The basis of our state is the experience of generations

Yes, yes! Tokmo add: based on religious tenets.

[raw174]

Quote: EwgenyZ

based on religious tenets.

and they, in turn, are based on the experience of generations, the pre-religious period.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: raw174

Quote: EwgenyZ

based on religious tenets.

and they, in turn, are based on the experience of generations, the pre-religious period.

In the Old Testament

[Svateev]

Quote: raw174

Religion is a fantasy world

It is because of fantasies that religious wars are staged, burned at bonfires, etc.
Fantasy (belief) is a very material force.

[raw174]

Quote: Svateev

Fantasy (belief) is a very material force.

I do not argue. In one of the posts I said that religion is a powerful propaganda machine.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Observer2014

It is striking against the background of worldly problems with which decisiveness the ROC acts !!!!

That's for sure, I remind you that Patriarch Kirill was perhaps the first to congratulate Poroshenko on his election victory!

[Observer2014]

Stirbjorn (Michael)

That's for sure, I remind you that Patriarch Kirill was perhaps the first to congratulate Poroshenko on his election victory!

And now this is nonsense with the chance to change your mind and the other crap of our authorities sideways comes out year after year. You think the congratulation was not agreed in the Kremlin. Yeah, right now. It was necessary to think earlier.

[rruvim]

Of course it was agreed. I think even now, first of all, His Holiness "ran" to the Kremlin for advice on what to do further along the Outskirts ... Nothing can be decided without the Brigadier. This is the trouble. The Russian Orthodox Church can solve the problem even without the advice of the secular government, this is the essence of Sobornost. But the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church does not want, coordinating all actions with the Power. Maybe for now.

[nickname7]

The Russian Federation is defending, it has no strategy, no geopolitics, unlike the west, but it’s impossible to defeat defense, it can only be postponed. It was necessary to take power in the year 14, plant his puppets in Kiev. Since almost nothing has been done, alas, shaking his fists and deeply worrying about the matter will not help. From Ukraine, one way or another, they will make a Russophobic sanitary cordon, you need to put up with this.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: nickname7

It was necessary to take power in the year 14, plant his puppets in Kiev.

I agree that all the support of the junta that came to power at that time - just a few thousand street militants - the MTR brigade would be enough to disperse this circus in a day. The Ukrainian army and internal troops at that time did not know whom to obey

[raw174]

Quote: Stirbjorn

MTR brigades would be enough

They would have shot the Maidan? What are you talking about? The Ukrainian authorities (Domaidan) looked west in their mouths, would they not accept Russia's help for anything, or do you think that you had to attack Ukraine? It is in the SAR that we are invited and entitled, and there we are officially and fairly - AGGRESSORS! Yes, if our military enters in quantity

Quote: Stirbjorn

MTR teams

they would have been dared and ALL Ukraine would have taken up arms against us, including LDNR.
Whether we like it or not, the people of Ukraine supported this power in the elections, Poroshenko won, the question is removed. All snot about the coup and illegitimacy, leave it to yourself, the coveted power lost its position without a fight, which means at will or for money.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: raw174

The Ukrainian authorities (Domaidan) looked west in their mouths, would they not accept Russia's help for anything, or do you think that you had to attack Ukraine?

What kind of power is this? Yanukovych, who almost banged ?! During his life, he would have accepted any help, including military assistance, especially if he had been offered to return back. By the way, 3 billion, they took for a sweet soul, still do not want to return the truth. Maidan would just run away

Quote: raw174

It is in the SAR that we are invited and entitled, and there we are officially and fairly - AGGRESSORS!

Yes, of course, the Yemeni president invited the Saudis and the UAE, no one considers the latter to be aggressors. At that time, Yanukovych was the official president, and the junta seized power in Kiev, which was not recognized by anyone at that time

Quote: raw174

they would have been dared and ALL Ukraine would have taken up arms against us, including LDNR.

In Crimea, there were more than 20 thousand APUs, not counting the units of the SBU, for which they did not take up arms

Quote: raw174

Whether we like it or not, the people of Ukraine supported this power in the elections, Poroshenko won, the question is removed.

Yeah, in Kharkov, in Donetsk, Odessa it was seen how they were supported

Quote: raw174

All snot about the coup and illegitimacy, leave it to yourself, the coveted power lost its position without a fight, which means at will or for money.

So like you, snot and dissolve, justifying the inaction of our authorities. You just had to clean up the scumbags while they were rampaging around Kiev. The vast majority of the population of Ukraine would only say thank you, and the rest would plump in the corners and calm down later

[raw174]

Quote: Stirbjorn

For his life he would take any help

Assad thought and asked Russia for military assistance, and Yanukovych hoped until the very end for the reliability of the West, for his patronage, because he was always a pro-Western politician.

Quote: Stirbjorn

In Crimea, there were more than 20 thousand APUs, not counting the units of the SBU, for which they did not take up arms

Crimea was not Ukraine, in terms of the beliefs of the population. I served there, talked with people, plus a powerful Russian presence, in the form of a Navy base (where I served). Crimeans always considered themselves Russian, including the military.
Part of the military (visitors, sent) of course would have resisted and organized a rebuff, but did not have time, thanks to the lightning-fast and well-coordinated work of our Armed Forces and "social activists"

Quote: Stirbjorn

Yeah, in Kharkov, in Donetsk, Odessa it was seen how they were supported

This is not the majority. Most supported. Those who did not support the Maidan simply could not organize and drive out the rally, because they were not the majority from the country.

Quote: Stirbjorn

justifying the inaction of our authorities.

I don’t understand your logic, why do we need it? Yes, even let go on their heads! We have a certain interest in LDNR, it is necessary that they have autonomy within Ukraine, that there is a pro-Russian buffer from hostile elements, which is why we support them, and attacking a foreign country for no reason is at least stupid. How will we differ from Germany in 1939?

[Barzha]

MTR brigades would be enough to disperse this circus in a day.

MTRs are not designed for such actions. And they would not have coped with this task. They have completely different tasks. And the "dispersal of the circus" is carried out by the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, trained and trained for this.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Barzha

MTRs are not designed for such actions. And they would not have coped with this task. They have completely different tasks. And the "dispersal of the circus" is carried out by the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, trained and trained for this.

The assault on Amin's palace, let me remind you. And the "circus" would have dispersed itself when the top was beheaded

[Barzha]

Storming the palace of Amin, I recall.

Oh! The feeling that you are absolutely not in the subject, what they are doing and what tasks are performed by the MTR. Let me explain, for those who believe that "the special forces of the GRU General Staff can do everything!" These units perform the following tasks: reconnaissance and sabotage, subversive, counter-terrorist, counter-sabotage, counter-intelligence, partisan, anti-partisan and other actions. The main job of these guys is covert actions behind enemy lines! An ideal job for them, if you weren't found at all. They "do not know how" to attack, storm and hold objects (by the way, about Amin's palace), etc. This is the task of assault units such as "Alpha" and the like. And these guys, if you like, are modern ninjas! Only not those cinematic ones that Hollywood draws, but real ones.

[Barzha]

Bartholomew decided to try on the “clothes” of the so-called “Eastern Pope”.

This "Eastern Pope", although he is called "Ecumenical", has practically no authority in the Orthodox world. And now he can drop it altogether below the baseboard. If he does what he says he risks becoming "the patriarch of all schismatics."

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Observer2014

Call it what you want

What is there to call?
Are there many true parishioners among us who regularly attend church during worship and observe religious fasts? Such units per thousand, if not less. In the mid-30 of the last century, half of the citizens of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus did not hide their membership in the Orthodox Church during the census.
And today, what are true believers? What are the true Cossacks? Continuous window dressing and mummers.
Religion has become an appendage to public policy. Both in Greece, so in Russia, and in Banderostan. The current now on the icons of the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate will be Petliura with Bandera, and who is portrayed in the paintings of fiery hell is easy to guess.
In the modern mercantile world, where the process of radicalization of nationalism is directly related to the survival of the country in the form that the worldly authorities preach, religion becomes an appendage in the form of a modern virtual icon.

[raw174]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Religion has become an appendage to public policy.

It has always been that way. Religion was created to control the masses and the implementation of state. politicians.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: raw174

It always has been.

That was not always ....
As an example - the coming of the Romanov dynasty to power at the beginning of the XXVII century, when it was the father of Misha Romanov who contributed to the fact that never seriously considered as a contender for the throne, he was “planted” on it.
The first attempt to establish control of power on the Church was made by Peter the Great, who carried out church reform, essentially taking control.
In our time, the Church also had a definite influence on the minds of parishioners. During the Great Patriotic War, the Russian Orthodox Church called for a fight against the invaders.
In the "pre-Internet era" it was the proclamations from the porch that influenced the minds of the common people.

Today, when everyone can form an opinion on what is happening, the influence of the Church has fallen to its minimum limits. Even such ardent, until recently, Catholic countries such as Spain and Poland, listen more to the leaders of the movements, and not to the bishops, or the Pope as a whole.

[raw174]

Quote: stalkerwalker

authorities at the beginning of the XXVII century,

Back to the Future!
Do not convince. The church always clings to power, sometimes struggles with secular ones, but always for power and influence. The fact that during the war they called on the people to rise - naturally, the war was then a general one! Now Putin is quite skillfully communicating with religious leaders, leading everywhere with himself, thereby reinforcing his authority, because the flock listens to the pastor and obeys him, if the pastor said that the ruler is charitable, then that’s how it is.

[Prjanik]

The dogs were completely furious, Russia, like a bone in their throat, is crushing in politics and economics, which we are used to, then took up sports, and now we get to religion. When they are under water, like Atlantis, will leave.

[raw174]

Quote: Prjanik

When they are under water, like Atlantis, will leave.

When Zhirinovsky gives a command to scientists and:

At night, our scientists will slightly change the gravitational field of the Earth, and your country (USA) will be under water.

V.V. Zhirinovsky.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Observer2014

The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world

This is not a victory for the Western special services, it is the defeat of Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, since Bartholomew made such a decision right after meeting him.

[Logall]

In Constantinople there is no God (in the heads of the priests) ... His LONG-LONG "Pope" SOLD! After that, the Turks took Constantinople ... And Constantinople has long since disappeared! Words alone, bargaining and speculation ...
"Orthodox Faith" for 30 Serebrennikov: times; two; three - sold ...

[Grim Reaper]

Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.
I don’t know who said it for the first time.

[bober1982]

Quote: Ecilop

Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.

A curious proposition, apparently such an interpretation can be - as soon as the ribs break, then you will think about something divine, or at least think about the transience of being.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Ecilop

Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.
I don’t know who said it for the first time.

There, sort of, it was about the church. Like, faith in the heart should be and there is nothing for churchmen to feed, to sacrifice land and values ​​to them. Of course, this is not forgiven. And with firewood then it was easier and mores more simple. The Inquisition, then, this ... Of course, to the great glory of the Lord!

[bober1982]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Like, faith in the heart should be and there is nothing for churchmen to feed, to sacrifice land and values ​​to them.

Incidentally, about faith in the heart and nothing to feed................., this is a favorite topic of abstruse intelligentsia who like to talk about this topic. A good and pleasant thing is to slap a couple of glasses of cognac (vodka), have a bite and talk about how God loves everyone, instead of decisively fighting his evil and vile habits.

[ver_]

... so, before the Church fought - monasteries - fortresses and armory, monks - warriors ...

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Logall

There is no god in Constantinople (in the heads of priests) ...

Bartholomew does not know the history of the Church well. It would not hurt him to recall how the Ferraro-Florentine Cathedral ended for the Ecumenical Patriarchs.
But there is God in the Church or He does not depend on the patriarchs, but on the priests and their flocks.
This is where God definitely does not exist in the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate." And, after all, Filaret, he could have become the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, God saved!

[Barzha]

Primates and higher hierarchs of 11 out of 15 Orthodox churches have already come out in support of the ROC and condemned the schism into which the "ecumenical" church and Denisenko are plunging.

[Mountain shooter]

The trouble will be ... Serious fight over the church inheritance in Ukraine, and Bandera in the forefront. At the same time, Poroshenko, having "untwisted" it, will step aside, because the state "does not interfere" in church affairs ... And, according to the inferno law, in this case the worst scenario is realized ... alas ...

[gla172]

"" "" "" Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers "" "" "

... Horror, there are so many people lost to society! ......

....... The forced baptism of Eastern European Russia turned into a 200-year-old civil fratricidal massacre (its analogue is the civil war as a result of the religious reforms of Nikon in 1666) with the participation of the armed forces of Byzantium and Western Europe on the side of the baptists. These events "historians" slyly call "princely civil strife in Ancient Rus". As a result of "voluntary" baptism, the population of this "Ancient Rus" decreased from 12 to 5 million people, and according to some sources - to 3 million people .......
....... When it became clear that a complete ethnic catastrophe could not be avoided, in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to turn for help to the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East, who were still living there at that time. And they, dressed in the then Siberian "fashion" and well armed, came to the aid of their brothers. Russians, not fooled by Christianization, of course, greeted them with delight ...
......... But the fooled ones, who became Ivanes-not-remembering kinship, sowing in cities (for example, in Kiev, Kozelsk, etc.), showed fierce resistance. From this it is clear why Kiev, from which the infection of false Christianity began to spread in Russia, suffered the most. Christianizers, cleverly posing as "Byzantine Greeks", were forced to hide for a while .......
.

[solzh]

Quote: gla172

in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to ask for help from the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East

It is necessary to write such heresy !!! It may be enough to rewrite the history of lies to scientists.

[just exp]

but why did you decide that your textbooks were correct, and not his?
in general, how many excavations were in the battlefields of those times, and for which not a single Mongoloid skull was found. all Caucasians.
and in Siberia all the names are Indo-European
for example (the picture turned black, white in the original article, read it too
https://history.wikireading.ru/308650)

and according to mythology (and there are recorded opinions of eyewitnesses, that is, those people who lived at that time) in Siberia there was a kingdom of white people, for example, mummies (Tarim) were found in northern China. do you think they belong to the Chinese or Caucasians?

[solzh]

Quote: just explo

why did you decide that your textbooks were correct, and not his?

From the fact that the textbooks that I studied, as well as books that I read, for example, the same books by academician Rybakov and his students, were written by the Scientific representatives of Science, and not by science fiction writers.

Quote: just explo

in general, how many excavations were in the battlefields of those times, and for which not a single Mongoloid skull was found. all Caucasians.

How many excavations were there, where and what? This is the first. Second, and among the Mongols in the army, only people with Mongolian features served?

Quote: just explo

in Siberia all the names are Indo-European
For example

When, at what time, did these geographical features get their name?

Quote: just explo

and mythology (and there are recorded opinions of eyewitnesses, that is, those people who lived in those days)

What are the eyewitnesses?

[just exp]

Rybakov generally studied the late pagan stratum.
but for example if you read the book of Sokol-Kutyloskiy "set of runic inscriptions"
there are photographs of brekteats (Scandinavian) and you can read what they mean (yes, futark it turns out Slavic writing), there are also excavations of the same Arkaim and Tarim, there are r1a everywhere,
Excavations of wars with the Tatar-Mongols were conducted at many cities that took the Tatar-Mongols. and yes, there doesn’t have to be all Mongols, but at least someone should be there.
otherwise, what kind of Tatar-Mongols are there among whom there are no Mongols? and there is a version (did not check) that the Polovtsy were Caucasians.
geographical objects got their name long ago, back in the days of Indo-European unity. that is why the same Tajiks can translate the name of the Ob River (where I live).
and the vast majority of names are of Indo-European origin.
and I repeat - look at the Tarim mummies. what there and when did the Caucasians do?
(Threat eyewitnesses, these are those who wrote sacred texts and tales, I write at least about the same Avesta)

[Barzha]

Oh! Less would be the guys need to watch Ren-TV ...
Of course, the history of Russia was greatly curtailed. First at the time of Peter I, and finally chopped off at the time of Catherine II. After it was completely rewritten by the "Russian" historians Miller, Bayer and Schlötser, it turned out that Russia had virtually no history before Rurik. What is known there? Novgorod veche, yes "our lands are vast, but there is little order in them. Come, rule us!" That's all. But nothing else is known for certain. Everything else is just not confirmed speculation. But the fact that September 22 comes the year 7527 "from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple", says that the history of Russia began long before 862, when the Vikings of Rurik came to Russia. And the Creation of the World is the conclusion of a peace treaty at the end of some very terrible war. And this event is so significant that our ancestors began to calculate time from it. But what it was, and what happened after that, it seems that only Ren-TV presenters know, tk. no documentary sources have survived. And everything else is just circumstantial evidence that can be considered and interpreted as you like.

[just exp]

read the Avesta and the Indian Vedas. Well, Mahabharata. also have something to think about.
it describes what happened before the great war and what happened after.

[Barzha]

read the Avesta and the Indian Vedas. Well, Mahabharata. also have something to think about.
it describes what happened before the great war and what after

Did you read them in the original? I doubt it. Most likely this is some 1001st "author's translation". Have you never taken part in business training? Especially in management. Often, coaches arrange such a game - all participants are asked to leave the room, and one, the rest, is told a story. He retells it to the second, the second to the third, etc. So, even for a strong, "trained" team, by the age of 12-15 a participant from the initial history, little remains. And by the 20th retelling, its essence is generally lost. It completely ceases to be like the original source. What can we say about the fact that it is rewritten even 100 times!

[just exp]

I know about that training (psychologist by education) (he still has a different look, there about monkeys and a banana).
only here is a little wrong.
these sources have analogues of other nations and no one bothers to compare them.
moreover, the main theme remains language.
read how an Indian (Prasada Shastri) came to the Moscow region with a translator and then abandoned him.
there are ornaments, there is toponymy that does not change (I'm talking about the same river names for example).
there would be a desire. and it’s easier to start denying everything stupidly if this is new to you.

[ver_]

... Mongolia was founded in 1920 by Ulyanov = Blanca - he * bit off * a piece of China and named it Mongolia-Baron Ungern actively participated in this * event * ..

[gla172]

... and comrades like miller and co ... are scientists ??? ....

[Vanek]

Quote: gla172

Horror, this is so many people lost to society! ....

Do you have a cross on your chest?

[solzh]

Where do such people get a cross or some other creed on their chest? They read and consider the thoughts of such false historians correct, and most importantly they consider them to be scientists !!!, such as: Chudinov, Levashov, Grinevich, Hinevich, Trekhlebov. So, they have no, absolutely no faith!

[just exp]

to the fact that you have listed these are CIA mattress agents.
that is exactly what Hitler fostered. it was originally sponsored by mattresses, and the ideology was made by the Saxons (Golden Dawn) who made the Germanic Order, Thule and the Vril Society, which was the skeleton of the whole ideology.
Levashov grazed with the Rockefellers in general.
but how he refused to cooperate with them, here he died.
If you want adequate sources, look at authors such as Zharnikova and Sidorov.
well, and more of the ancient texts themselves (both Edda, Veda (Indian), Avesta, the latter in terms of action, that is, stories are easier to read in Shahnam)

[just exp]

I have, I am baptized, on Saturday consecrated the hut, go to church and so on.
but I also know that the Christianity that Vladimir brought and baptized Russia, and that Orthodoxy that we have, is different religions and the Christianity of Vladimir did not come from Constantinople, but from the Vatican and this is an openly anti-Russian project (read how Perm was baptized and why the city of Cherdyn such a name). that is, they had the goal of destroying the Vedic civilization, and only time remade that Christianity into ours that we have now.
and in fact, our Christianity has absorbed the ancient teachings, which is why we have the cult of the Virgin and the holidays coincide in date with the ancients and we pray in front of the icons and many many other factors.

[Svateev]

Quote: solzh

they have no, absolutely no faith!

Quote: just explo

I have, I am baptized ... but I also know that the Christianity that Vladimir brought and baptized Russia, and that Orthodoxy that we have is different religions

Here they are - "truly free" believers. Even here, they peresobachi because of how many fingers you need to cross ...

[just exp]

I don’t dog at the expense of fingers, although instinctively I am baptized by two, but in the church by three, for it is customary.
even a statue is prayed to me (Catholics) or icons.
God is in my soul for me, but the church is also necessary (there is a cleansing effect from it, a fact verified by myself).
and the main evaluation criterion is the mode of distribution. here, alas, Christianity and Islam cannot please anything good, for they are planted with fire and a sword.

[Svateev]

Quote: just explo

God is for me in my soul

If you judge yourself in your soul - whether it’s good, whether you did something right - then you are an atheist. And if you expect an assessment of your deeds from the icon - then ... True, if you look, not a single icon has said anything to anyone. The believer also forgives his own sins. It’s very convenient: I grabbed a billionaire, put a candle, repented ... He himself decided that he was forgiven. And so calm in my soul ...

[just exp]

what is good and what is not has long been described. and you can put at least a hundred candles, but if it’s accepted that it’s bad to grab a lardik by thieves or some other criminal way, then it will be bad. but to oneself an excuse to look for it, you already have a small conscience.
I know so many. no matter what they do, they will always find an excuse.
only for God it does not roll. and you cannot atone for sin without a candle without repentance, but with repentance and without a candle you can expect forgiveness.

[Svateev]

Quote: just explo

only for God it doesn't roll

But for some reason, God not only does not punish this, but does not even show it in any way.

[just exp]

if you don’t know something, this does not mean that it doesn’t.

[Svateev]

Quote: just explo

if you don’t know something, this does not mean that it doesn’t.

Do you offer to believe? What I don’t know ?!
I'm still friends with my head!

[ver_]

.. why do we need * a stranglehold * on the neck ..

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: gla172

"" "" "" Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers "" "" "

... Horror, there are so many people lost to society! ......

....... The forced baptism of Eastern European Russia turned into a 200-year-old civil fratricidal massacre (its analogue is the civil war as a result of the religious reforms of Nikon in 1666) with the participation of the armed forces of Byzantium and Western Europe on the side of the baptists. These events "historians" slyly call "princely civil strife in Ancient Rus". As a result of "voluntary" baptism, the population of this "Ancient Rus" decreased from 12 to 5 million people, and according to some sources - to 3 million people .......
....... When it became clear that a complete ethnic catastrophe could not be avoided, in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to turn for help to the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East, who were still living there at that time. And they, dressed in the then Siberian "fashion" and well armed, came to the aid of their brothers. Russians, not fooled by Christianization, of course, greeted them with delight ...
......... But the fooled ones, who became Ivanes-not-remembering kinship, sowing in cities (for example, in Kiev, Kozelsk, etc.), showed fierce resistance. From this it is clear why Kiev, from which the infection of false Christianity began to spread in Russia, suffered the most. Christianizers, cleverly posing as "Byzantine Greeks", were forced to hide for a while .......
.

Given all this nonsense, you are definitely lost to all of humanity, and it seems that for a long time.

[just exp]

what if he’s right, what can I write about you?

[Skarpzd]

[quote = Get serious a fight for the church inheritance in Ukraine,. [/ quote]
key. faith is faith, and the church is primarily power and money. not frail money. that's for them that will be a "scuffle".

[just exp]

it also affects hundreds of millions of people.
and it’s more expensive than money.

[rotmistr60]

Bartholomew decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev

He knows whom to direct so that the split really takes place. He took an interest in his biography - Greek by nationality, was an officer in the Turkish army (already a betrayal), hobnobed with the Catholic Church, etc. It is amazing how he advanced in the church hierarchy to such heights.

[Svateev]

Quote: rotmistr60

It is amazing how he advanced in the church hierarchy to such heights.

So he lives in Turkey. Like the entire Patriarchate of Constantinople, it is under the hood of intelligence services of Turkey and other NATO countries.
Or do you think that these priests were really given freedom of action? !!

[Grim Reaper]

My mnu son came from Lugansk. It so happened, met a girl hohlushkoy. I drove to Lugansk, on my vacation with her, met her relatives. All this was at the end of August 2018. Who believes that I will believe the stories of rtr24 against what my son told me?

[just exp]

but what does Lugansk and what is happening in Kiev?
or did he drive through Kiev and there he settled for a couple of years and only returned from there?

[bober1982]

The Patriarchate of Constantinople is in a miserable position, is supported by the US State Department, the CIA and the Vatican, the "flock" itself is a couple of thousand people (in Turkey), the rest are in Canada and the United States, the residence itself is constantly attacked by Turkish militants, to which the Turkish authorities defiantly pay no attention.
The statements and actions that Bartholomew made from his Turkish quarter at the direction of his sponsors are simply incredible in their arrogance, and the consequences will be grave. This is a war on all fronts.

[Overland whale]

You're not right. The Patriarchate of Constantinople submits to Greek Fr. Crete, all Greek monasteries of the Aion-Oros (Athos) Peninsula, the Greek Metropolitanate of France, the Finnish Human Rights Center, the Estonian Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Canada, the American Carpathian Orthodox Church in the USA, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America, as well as the Austrian, Belgian, German, Pyrenees, Thyatira, Gallic, Scandinavian, Swiss, Buenos Aires, Toronto, Boston, Denver, New York, Pittsburgh, Chicago, San Francisco Metropolis, and these are thousands of parishes and millions of parishioners.

[bober1982]

All these metropolises and all kinds of HRCs have long departed from Orthodoxy, having come under the influence of Constantinople, many of the organizations you have listed are marginalized, and have no relation to Orthodoxy.

[Overland whale]

Without going into clarification of the criteria for "departing from Orthodoxy", I will ask only one question: what, Athos also "moved away from Orthodoxy", right? Who then did not leave? And who determines who departed and who did not? In universal Orthodoxy, in general, any autocephalous local Church is a unit absolutely independent of other Orthodox Churches, and its "correctness / incorrectness" is determined only by one criterion - the presence or absence of Eucharistic communion between the Churches (that is, believers of different autocephalous Churches can or cannot mutually commune in temples of each other). There are no other criteria. And there is Eucharistic communion between the ROC and the Constantinople Orthodox Church.

[bober1982]

Quote: Whale Land

Athos also "departed from Orthodoxy", right?

Yes, but if it is only how to understand what Athos is, it is big and different, by the way I did not mention it.

Quote: Whale Land

And then who didn’t leave?

Никто.

Quote: Whale Land

And who determines who has departed and who has not?

Creed, the decisions of the Orthodox Ecumenical Councils, the creation of the Holy Fathers of the Church - the purity of Orthodox dogmas, is determined. Do not diminish or add.

[Overland whale]

Well, that is, if two Sister Churches are in Eucharistic communion, then I am more than sure that their primates recognize the equal grace of the sacraments in both Churches, as well as the conformity of the official doctrine of these Churches with the Creed and all other criteria that you mentioned.

[bober1982]

Quote: Whale Land

as well as compliance

As for the conformity of Constantinople all the criteria of the official doctrine, as it were delicate to say, a lot of uncomfortable questions for them. The old soldier would say in all simplicity - you crap ... official doctrine ,too much.

[Svateev]

Quote: Whale Land

and these are thousands of parishes and millions of parishioners.

So why is this patriarch not with his flock, but sitting literally under siege among the Muslim population of Turkey?

[Overland whale]

He is at his canonical patriarchal chair, and the fact that now Constantinople is held captive by the Hagarians, from a spiritual point of view, does not matter. For some reason, God overlooked this state of things.
And the flock dispersed all over the world after the genocide of the Asia Minor Greeks at the beginning of the 20th century - but this does not mean that the primate of the Church should rush after her around the world))).

[Svateev]

Quote: Whale Land

For some reason, God overlooked this state of things.

Do you want to say in order for the ecumenical patriarch to tear the Ukrainian flock from the Russian Orthodox Church under pressure from NATO special services?

[bald]

The ratio of opponents and willing will remain the same - at least it will be seen who is who. But the churches of the Russian Orthodox Church, loot, for me it is history and museums (I do not belong to any denomination) - something needs to be done.

[Andy]

war for the capsule. faith didn’t stand nearby.

[Altona]

Quote: bober1982

The statements and actions that Bartholomew made from his Turkish quarter at the direction of his sponsors are simply incredible in their arrogance, and the consequences will be grave. This is a war on all fronts.

-----------------------------
I understand that they decided to build their own Russian Vatican in Sergiev Posad? They want to carry out some kind of reconstruction, to demolish some of the old churches. When I was there in 1992, you go like this "temple of the XNUMXth century", then the XNUMXth and so on, although they were then roughly restored and painted with lime and oil paint. I do not understand these body movements of the church hierarchs. But such statements from Istanbul are throwing stones at the soil of the Orthodox (Orthodox) Church.

[bober1982]

Quote: Altona

I understand that in Sergiev Posad they decided to build their Russian Vatican?

Quite the opposite is true, Bartholomew is obsessed with the idea of ​​the Orthodox "papacy", the Church of Constantinople itself has for a century been a hotbed of liberalism, renovationism and various troubles.

Quote: Altona

But such statements from Istanbul are throwing stones at the soil of the Orthodox (orthodox) church.

With such statements Bartholomew endowed himself with the rights of the pope.

[Svateev]

Quote: ver_

... Rome was founded by George Dolgoruky and Ivan Kalita ... In principle, the first pope is Ivan Kalita

Either put emoticons, or show a certificate from a psychiatrist

[ver_]

.. The church was in those days: - monasteries - chroniclers, post office, * universities *, inventors - science developed there ...

[free]

Quote: dauria

Religion is opium. Eat handfuls of drugs, your choice.

When you break your leg, or gnaw at a bullet, I suppose ask for an anesthetic. Or refuse and die of a pain shock? Faith is one of the methods of psychological defense. Efficient, cheap and timely. Sometimes it does not allow a person to go crazy. Changes the perception of reality, like all other methods of protection. Come up with a replacement - you are a genius. Vodka, ecstasy and antidepressants do not offer, expensive and not always at hand. And religion is just the second derivative of faith. Based on commodity-money relations.

Opium is opium, if you do not twist. And the class essence also can not be put anywhere. And faith can be different, not necessarily religious.

[Retvizan 8]

Yes, they are pressing us from all sides!
Politics, sports, economics, now we got to religion!

[Henderson]

And there was no need to merge religion with state institutions. Moreover, Russia under the Constitution is a secular state.

[Troll]

That is rather the victory of Islam. Like it or not, but the more contention in Christianity, the stronger the Muslim teaching.

[RUSS]

Quote: Troll

That is rather the victory of Islam. Like it or not, but the more contention in Christianity, the stronger the Muslim teaching.

Christians rule the world.

[just exp]

there, too, the butch between the Shiites and Sunnis begins to flare up with renewed vigor.

[Baloo]

The isolation of Russia continues. If Assad is not given enough air defense assets and the collective assassination destroys the collective west, we will have to leave as we left Afghanistan. Then the problems will begin with the sale of our main export product - hydrocarbons.
As for Constantinople, a single Orthodox Church is needed only by Russia, all the rest need money for belonging. I sympathize with the believers of both churches in Ukraine.
If I were a believer, I would say that God turned his back on Ukraine and its people.

[Nikolay R]

The script is clearly Americanos. Only they do not understand what and with whom they are dealing. From the junta and all sympathizers will remain only the tail and feathers.

[Bastinda]

I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
ROC to ban! Popov dispossess! Withdraw all funds and assets, direct to the development of basic research.
And to believe in GTR and St. Isaac (Einstein) or Leibovitz ...

[just exp]

see South Park science series (go ahead God go ahead)

[Nikolay R]

Do you know that unbelief is also faith? Only faith that there is no God.
You will say that it is obvious that there is no God. But I will answer that this is obvious to you, and it is just as obvious to me that He is.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

Do you know that unbelief is also faith?

Do you know that this meaningless passage was invented by believers?
The atheist is constantly checking the presence / absence of God with science. And if he sees that no god is needed for the decay of the nucleus of an atom, then the atheist understands that there is no evidence for God, but against that - the whole history of science.

[Nikolay R]

For instance? Give at least one serious proof that there is no God. Very interesting.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

Give at least one serious proof that there is no God.

The proof is the history of science. What was considered divine yesterday is used today in the kitchen. So why should we assume that in a yet unknown region there is a certain god?
P.S. I wrote long and beautifully, but it seems that the site has time limits for writing comments. Or God intervened

[Nikolay R]

But how does the history of science prove that there is no God? I do not need long and beautiful. Write simply and concretely.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

But how does the history of science prove that there is no God?

Constantly. Everything finds and finds cause-effect relationships of phenomena and it becomes clear that God is nowhere, for nothing is required.

Quote: Nikolai R

one of God's attributes is omnipresent. That is, there is no place where there is no His presence.

Beautiful ... and pointless. It turns out that God is in me, therefore, everything that I do is done by God. So come on, pray for me!
Ah, there is God in you too ?! Do you also need to pray? But we argue - is God arguing with himself? Does he have nothing to do?
"We are not playing with money.
We just want to spend eternity ... "
(EMNIP "Faust", Goethe)

Quote: Nikolai P

Better not to disgrace yourself and do not write anything else about this. In order to challenge something, you need to know at least a little the subject of the dispute.

Nervous already? Right! Your arguments are primitive, long debated and refuted. I suspect that when I first led such disputes, you still walked under the table.

[Nikolay R]

“So why should it be assumed that there is a certain god in the as yet unknown area?” Is this your proof? So it will be known to you that one of the properties of God is omnipresent. That is, there is no place where there is no His presence. He is everywhere. You can see he is still a theologian. Better not disgrace yourself and do not write anything else about this. In order to dispute something, you need to know at least a little the subject of the dispute.

[rruvim]

I am glad that in the end you believe in God! When you die ... There is almost no other evidence. Except FAITH.

[Svateev]

Quote: rruvim

There is almost no other evidence. Except FAITH.

Right. There is no evidence for God.
And this has long been known to all theologians. That is why the disbelievers of God invented Thomas the unbeliever - a primitive edification to all doubters: "Well, Thomas didn’t believe either. And then he touched and - believed !!!!"

Quote: rruvim

I am glad that in the end you believe in God!

And I am glad for you that you are happy for me. And it seems to me that in the end you will gain the strength to recognize that there is no god. But this is not the main thing.
The main thing in matters of faith is not to force one another to believe or to refuse faith.
We have one homeland, we live near. We have one life, and we must live it in such a way that later we should not regret the time spent in vain in disputes about faith.
So to all believers and unbelievers - all the best, see you on other occasions, where we are more united!

[aiden]

Someone gradually gives certain knowledge to people, at a certain stage.

[Svateev]

Quote: aiden

Someone gradually gives certain knowledge to people

But scientists don’t know this ... suffer, work!

[Henderson]

Quote: Nikolai R

Do you know that unbelief is also faith? Only faith that there is no God.

demagogy. Atheism is NOT faith, it is the LACK of faith.

[Nikolay R]

I hope you studied at school and heard at least out of the ear that there is such a theory of relativity of Einstein? It all depends on what you take the starting point. If we take atheism as a starting point, then for any atheist faith in God will mean disbelief that God does not exist.

[Nikolay R]

For what reason?

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

If we take atheism as a starting point, then for any atheist, faith in God will mean disbelief that God does not exist.

Have you decided to do scholasticism? Then you would have to learn from the medieval scholastics. They turned the logic inside out - anyway ... expensive exercise was to prove that the stick has two beginnings and two ends. And at the same time.
And your task is for beginners: denial of negation. Answer - You are wrong. Not believing that there is no god does not necessarily mean believing that he is. Because the third option is possible: I don’t know. Or even the fourth: God is and is not at the same time.
How did I bend, huh?

[Baloo]

Quote: Bastinda

I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
ROC to ban! Popov dispossess!

Misha no longer pour.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Bastinda

I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
ROC to ban! Popov dispossess! Withdraw all funds and assets, direct to the development of basic research.

Already passed. Only then such clever people washed their face with snot in the GULAGs, with the eternal Ukrainian question - "And what about me?"

[ver_]

... Einstein - he was a good thief - Stoletov had 2 laws of the photoelectric effect - he communized and received the Nobel Prize for him - in a word - a Jew ..

[vadimtt]

No, you can do without GR, and even more so a holy accountant. Lord Kelvin to the throne!

[Maalkavianin]

The 21st century is in the yard, and people still believe in gods, demons, sleep and a black cat ... This is sad.

[Vanek]

Quote: Malkavianin

This is sad.

It’s sad not to believe it. And that's why.

I'm going. On an oncoming car rides. And the black cat (whether it is a cat) crosses both of us and the road turns out. I turned around. He is not. He still smiled. My passenger also giggled. I’ve done everything I’ve done, I’m going back, and he, the one who was going to meet me. Through one intersection from the place where the cat was in an accident. Not too much. But still.

Quote: Malkavianin

dream

The phenomenon is uncontrollable.

Although you may not believe it.

[Maalkavianin]

By coincidence, this does not happen.

[Vanek]

Quote: Malkavianin

By coincidence, this does not happen.

I do not know...

Denis

[Svateev]

Quote: Vanek

On an oncoming car rides. ... I turned around. He is not. ... I’ve done everything I’ve done, I’m going back, and he, the one who was going to meet me. Through one intersection from the place where the cat was in an accident.

So: you turned around and drove in the SAME DIRECTION as the oncoming car. And after one intersection I didn’t notice how the oncoming car got into an accident, but noticed it only when I did my thing and came back ...
Oh, yes Vanya! Ay yes storyteller !!

[Vanek]

Quote: Svateev

Ay yes storyteller !!

I read what You quoted from my comment.

Half are "crossed out".

И you what? Do you think I'm responsible for the storyteller? So what?

you from scraps "blinded" OWN version.

group "Bachelor party" song "I love people"

- Damn! * Yes, he went!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Malkavianin

21st century in the yard

I never understood, and I do not understand this phrase. What is time? Tell me please.

[Svateev]

Quote: Mordvin 3

I never understood, and I do not understand this phrase.

The phrase means that by the 21 century so much scientific (confirmed) knowledge has been accumulated that believing in a black cat is bad manners (stupidity).

[Mordvin 3]

I'm talking about time. What is time?

Quote: Svateev

by the 21st century, so much scientific (confirmed) knowledge has been accumulated that believing in a black cat is bad manners (stupidity).

Nonetheless. The people sat and clapped their eyes on Kashpirovsky’s passes, my grandmother put two cans of water when Chumak charged them. Something got me wrong. And time ... No it. People came up with the concept to justify their activities.

[Svateev]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And time ... There is none of it.

Sometimes it really seems so. Because the composition of mankind is constantly being updated and some of the new ones do not want to assimilate the achievements of their predecessors.

Quote: Mordvin 3

The people sat and clapped their eyes on Kashpirovsky’s passes

Exactly yesterday on TV they showed in the news that Kashpirovsky resumed his tour of Russia. Somewhere in the Urals or Siberia. DK is full of people, aunts enthusiastically fall to the floor at the wave of His hand (no, like this: HIS hands). The psychiatrist on duty complains: the next day after Kashpirovsky's session, the ambulance did not have time to leave the psychiatric hospital, and not only "recidivists" were transported, but also "debutists".
- So all our customers are eager for these sessions! - He speaks.

[Yrec]

Bartholomew either completely out of his mind survived, or he was intimidated to death. He cannot but understand that he is now the root cause of a serious split in the Orthodox Church. His name will be trampled into the mud, and he will be anathematized for such a thing. What is necessary to be an imbalance in order not to understand this? After all, half of the Orthodox are under the authority of the Russian Orthodox Church.

[rruvim]

Patriarch Bartholomew is not commemorated in half of the churches in Greece. On Mount Athos (the canonical territory of the Ecumenical Patriarchate) a whole Monastery (Esfigmen) "rebelled" several years ago. He was joined by a number of sketes and cells. Supporters and monks of this movement against the "Freemason" Bartholomew were called "Zealots". In Greece there are about 6 million of them.

[serge serge]

Well obsessed priests because of the dough. So at them every day is such a mess. And do not make universal catastrophe out of this.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Serge Serge

Well obsessed priests because of the dough. So at them every day is such a mess. And do not make universal catastrophe out of this.

Sergey, the religious feeling is one of the strongest. A person will go to die for the Shrine, but he will not need a monument of architecture. Atheists make one stupid mistake: they approach the issue of faith in God from a consumer perspective - they equate going to church to going to the deli, and then they wonder why such a cool idea like communism ends up in a garbage can.

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

religious feeling is one of the strongest.

This is a fact.

Quote: EwgenyZ

A person will go to die for the Shrine, but he will not need a monument of architecture.

And you are a believer. The invented supreme being (god) is more important to you than the creation of human hands.

Quote: EwgenyZ

Atheists ... going to church is equated to going to the deli

Not at the grocery store, but at the cinema or the theater. Needs are satisfied the same - spiritual.

Quote: EwgenyZ

why such a cool idea, like communism, is in a garbage can.

And therefore, why the church abandoned Christianity is not viable.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Svateev

And you are a believer. The invented supreme being (god) is more important to you than the creation of human hands.

"God has no hands other than yours" (c). A person does something of his own free will, something according to the will of God or the devil ... Do not understand.
By the way, about the divine and the earthly: there is a parable "Chanterelle" or "Chanterelle and milk", it is clearly described there.

Quote: EwgenyZ

Not at the grocery store, but at the cinema or the theater. Needs are satisfied the same - spiritual.

It is in the gastrana that they look at the prices of candles, sacraments, etc. and compare here is more expensive, cheaper there, everything is like in a store. And even funnier when they begin to compare our churches and the Catholic. There de candles are generally free.

Quote: Svateev

And therefore, why the church abandoned Christianity is not viable.

Where are such conclusions from?

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Man does something of his own free will, something by the will of God or the devil ... Do not understand.

Spit over your shoulder? And through what, to get to hell, and not to an angel?

Quote: EwgenyZ

look at the prices of candles, sacraments, etc. and compare here is more expensive, cheaper there, everything is like in a store.

Are you talking about atheists or about your church members?

Quote: EwgenyZ

Where are such conclusions from?

How that is "from where" ?! The meaning of Christ's teaching is non-resistance to evil. And the church?
1) "Thou shalt not kill" was canceled. Blessed warriors for what?
2) "Turn the other cheek" - this is where?
3) "Do not steal," and the church agreed to usury.
Etc. etc.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Svateev

Spit over your shoulder? And through what, to get to hell, and not to an angel?

I do not spit, the Church does not encourage superstition.

Quote: Svateev

Are you talking about atheists or about your church members?

This is me about atheists and "passing" who justify their laziness with thieving priests.

Quote: Svateev

1) "Thou shalt not kill" was canceled. Blessed warriors for what?

The Church blesses the Protectors, not the murderers. War does not do without death, and the dead soldiers are on the conscience of the aggressor, not the defenders.

Quote: Svateev

2) "Turn the other cheek" - this is where?

Does the Church teach the opposite?

Quote: Svateev

3) "Do not steal", and the church agreed to usury. Etc. etc.

What agreed? Banking is one of the human activities, as is the manufacture and sale of alcohol ... Do you propose that the Church declare a Crusade against bankers and winemakers?
No need to bring to the point of absurdity.

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

dead soldiers on the conscience of the aggressor, not the defenders.

I think so too!
But Christ thought differently: do not kill NEVER. And when they asked him what to do, if you were hit on the cheek, he replied that it was necessary to substitute the second. And God will help, we must hope for him.
Do you even know this ?! Have you not read the gospel, believer ?!
Therefore, I say that Christianity is a beautiful, but not marketable, and therefore harmful idea.
The history of the discussion of this issue is as old as Christianity itself. Why did the Romans poison the first Christians in the arenas? They showed that the Christian faith does not help, but kills believers and is not suitable for real life.

Quote: EwgenyZ

Does the Church teach the opposite?

Hello! You just said that you need to defend yourself. And then - that you need to substitute a second cheek.
If nothing confuses you in your logic -

[serge serge]

In some ways, you are right, only here the obscurantist priests (and everyone, from the Sumerian priests to modern gurus of all stripes), for some reason, from time immemorial, have been striped exclusively because of the ball (land, gold, rent) - underline the necessary ... And the believers who have been put on by them, they really will willingly go to kill, for the Lord, who, it turns out, "loves everyone."
A trip to the obscurantist priest is not in the deli (although they also sell here: candles and magic services), it’s more like a psychotherapist (it’s not for nothing that this gang has bred to reduce the general interest in religion). Well, or if there is no other entertainment in the village, then it’s like going to a club

[_Ugene_]

Grand schism in the Orthodox world

Now Orthodoxy is not at all what it was before, and Christianity in general, it does not have that unifying role that it once was

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: _Ugene_

Orthodoxy now is not at all what it used to be,

How do you know this? have you lived before

Quote: _Ugene_

and Christianity in general, he does not have that unifying role that was once

What are you talking about? About heretics who fell away from the Church? The Lord said, "Many are called, but few are chosen." Belief in God is not a political ideology, it is a path to salvation.

[_Ugene_]

How do you know this? have you lived before

do you think that you can only judge what you saw personally? history, as a science, so you deny it? it’s very, original way to put it mildly so as not to offend, an original approach

What are you talking about? About heretics who have fallen from the Church?

no, I mean that in modern Europe, Russia, the USA, Christianity has now become more of a decorative religion, and much fewer people go to church and of those who go few really believers, most perceive this as a kind of ritual and that’s all, the flowering of Christianity is in the past , therefore, the strife within the church does not have a special effect on society, for example, what has changed in our society with the split of the Russian and Ukrainian churches? nothing, and in the future this fact will not have a significant impact on society

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: _Ugene_

do you think that you can only judge what you saw personally? history, as a science, so you deny it?

What did I refute her?

no, I mean that in modern Europe, Russia, the USA, Christianity has now become more of a decorative religion, and much fewer people go to church, and of those who go few really believers, most perceive this as a kind of ritual and that’s it,

I do not argue, I wrote about this above. This is the result of a very "smart" thought: "God is in the soul."

Quote: _Ugene_

the flowering of Christianity is a thing of the past

Controversial statement. Mass character is not yet a success: "For I tell you that none of those invited will taste my supper, for many are invited, but few are chosen." (Luke 14:24)

Quote: _Ugene_

nothing, and in the future this fact will not have a significant impact on society

We will see. As long as there is a person, there will be religious wars, and here, apparently, it is precisely this ending that is going on.

[_Ugene_]

What did I refute her?

You ask, "How do you know this? Did you live before?" if I have not lived before and have not seen it personally, then other sources are not an argument for you? if not, what is the point of your question?

This is the result of a very "smart" thought: "God is in the soul."

it’s not important the result of what it is, the fact that Christianity is dying away is important

Mass is not success yet

in the case of religion, is it difficult to agree, did Christ ascend to the cross for the salvation of mankind or a miserable handful of the elect? then he could limit himself to saving his apostles, but he bequeathed to carry the teaching to the masses

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

How do you know this? have you lived before

Have you lived? Not. And how do you know about Christ?
From books, dear, from books. In them, people just expound what they think.

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Faith in God is not a political ideology, it is the path to salvation.

Show at least one survivor. I'd like to see it!
That's when atheists will develop genetics, CRISPR technology and so on - then we will start saving ourselves (they will begin, descendants, we are unlikely to survive ...)

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Svateev

Show at least one survivor. I'd like to see it!

This will be shown to you by the Guardian Angel on the third day after death and before the ninth. I hope you do not get this day soon)))

[Svateev]

Quote: EwgenyZ

I hope you do not get this day soon)))

Thank! Good health and good doctors too!

Quote: EwgenyZ

This will show you the Guardian Angel on the third day after death and until the ninth

It is clear: you cannot show the survivors. Can you show at least one to whom the guardian angel showed the survivors?

[Butchcassidy]

Hellenes are evil. Although here, obviously, the hand of Erdogan and Hakan Fidan is visible, which operate within the framework of the non-recognition of the history of Crimea.

Bartholomew, like any other religious leader, is in Turkey under the strict control of the authorities and special services.

So the unity of Orthodoxy, as in ancient times, is threatened only by political issues, as was the case with the Council of Chalcedon, which was not recognized by the representatives of the Armenian, Ethiopian, Coptic, Syrian and Malankar ancient Eastern churches. So now, the issue is exclusively political. So it should be decided by politicians and special services, Bartholomew only implements the decision on Ukraine.

[3vs]

So, it is necessary to assemble the cathedral as early as possible, on which to drive citizen Bartholomew with a filthy broom,
otherwise it will be too late.

[Metallurg_2]

The most interesting thing here is this: Bartholomew is really going to recognize the autocephaly of the sect of Mishka Denisenko, or is the cunning Greek going to squeeze the territory of Ukraine for himself? The appointment of "exarchs" seems to support the second option.
No less interesting, which side will the other local churches - Moscow or Istanbul - take on this issue?

[EwgenyZ]

Bartholomew is going to become the second "Pope" and see Filaret in his submission. He does not understand one thing: the matter will not end with this split, the situation will develop further: there will be a union of the UOC-KP, but already without Filaret and Bartholomew.

[Larum]

What to argue! Quickly take off for new temples and new opium for the people.
To forget faster than the USSR, when everyone was together, and priests were not welcomed like that ...

[Bastinda]

How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly

[Svateev]

Quote: Bastinda

without them and God's will, companions do not fly

When "Tanya" was there, they flew. And as priests began to invite - so only "over the hill" and fly ... Either mysticism, or an indicator of the level of development of modern leaders of Roscosmos.

[Shahno]

I always wanted to know what the price is for the rites. How many ceremonies take place in the diocese per day and where do the revenues go (and it is also interesting how the parish is inherited?).
Religion is a belief system based on belief in the supernatural ... or not.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Bastinda

How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly

Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....

[free]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: Bastinda

How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly

Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....

Of course, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just useless.

[Svateev]

Quote: free

Of course there’s nothing wrong with that,

Yes, how to say ...
While this is part of a truly personal faith, unbelief - you can agree with you. But we must not forget the story: even the ancient Greeks realized that the Earth is a ball and moves around the Sun. And then Christianity suppressed real science for one and a half millennia and the Inquisition burned Giordano Bruno for the same thought. Even in the seventeenth century, Ptolemy was considered the greatest scientist, that is, the development of science simply stopped at 1,5 thousand years.

[free]

Quote: EwgenyZ

Quote: Bastinda

How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly

Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....

Does the church have a class affiliation and protect the interests of certain classes?

[atalef]

[Quote
To date, there are approximately 300 million believers in Orthodoxy, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space [quote]
In Russia, 58 million Orthodox Christians - all post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through which it is optimistic.
So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia?

[Volodin]

Quote: atalef

So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia? All post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through what optimistic.

Forgive me, but I do not know what it is, "through what is optimistic." And in general, where did you see the phrase in the text that "the entire post-Soviet space is Orthodox"? Apparently, a long stay in a foreign land still affects.

In Russian it is written in white: "the largest number of representatives in Russia and other post-Soviet countries."

VTsIOM: In Russia, 73% (2014) consider themselves Orthodox Christians - 106 million people. This data can not be trusted, but it is official data. Or in some country more Orthodox?

[atalef]

Quote: Volodin

Quote: atalef

So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia? All post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through what optimistic.

Forgive me, but I do not know what it is, "through what is optimistic." And in general, where did you see the phrase in the text that "the entire post-Soviet space is Orthodox"? Apparently, a long stay in a foreign land still affects.

In Russian it is written in white: "the largest number of representatives in Russia and other post-Soviet countries."

VTsIOM: In Russia, 73% (2014) consider themselves Orthodox Christians - 106 million people. This data can not be trusted, but it is official data. Or in some country more Orthodox?

Through what - damn auto-corrector - meant - Over the chur.
Further in the text - if it is written that there are 300 million Orthodox Christians in the world, most of them in the post-Soviet space and in Russia should have at least 150 million logic of things.
So I had a question - where did these numbers come from and why did all the post-Soviet space automatically relate to the Russian Orthodox Church.

According to the All-Russian study “Atlas of Religions and Nationalities”, conducted by the “Wednesday” service in August 2012, in 79 from 83 subjects of the Russian Federation, religiosity among Russians, whose total number is 143,2 million people, was distributed as follows [10] [15]:

58,8 million or 41% - profess Orthodoxy and belong to the Russian Orthodox Church
36 million or 25% - believe in God, but do not profess a specific religion
18 million or 13% - do not believe in God
9,4 million or 6,5% - profess Islam (including Sunnis, Shiites and those who do not consider themselves Sunni or Shiite)
5,9 million or 4,1% - profess Christianity, but do not consider themselves Orthodox or Catholics or Protestants
2,1 million or 1,5% - profess Orthodoxy, but do not belong to the Russian Orthodox Church and are not Old Believers
1,7 million or 1,2% - profess the traditional religion of their ancestors, worship the gods and forces of nature
700 000 or 0,4% - profess Buddhism (mainly Tibetan)
400 000 or 0,2% - Old Believers
300 000 or 0,2% - Protestants (Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelists, Anglicans)
140 000 or 0,1% - profess Eastern religions and spiritual practices (Hindus and Hare Krishnas)
140 000 or 0,1% - Catholics

[Rusj]

This is the US data for Easter 2018 in Russia.
The latest data is provided by the famous American research center Pew. According to him, 71% of Russians profess Orthodoxy (in 1991 there were 37%) and 75% of Russia's population believe in God. The study also provides data on Muslims - their 10%
There are Orthodox Christians in Russia - 73,62%
Muslims - 10,19%
A variety of micro-exotic in the amount of 4,06%
Unbelievers - 12,13%

[Rusj]

The latest data is provided by the famous American research center Pew. According to him, 71% of Russians profess Orthodoxy (in 1991 there were 37%) and 75% of Russia's population believe in God. The study also provides data on Muslims - their 10%.

Sociologists have noticed an interesting detail: in Russia and Eastern Europe, the vast majority of believers associate their worldview with national identity. Moreover, in Russia, according to the data of American scientists, even Muslims and atheists attach national identity to Orthodoxy.

Learn the mat part and before writing at least ask Google !!!

[Rusj]

Moreover, in Russia, according to the data of American scientists, even Muslims and atheists attach their national identity to Orthodoxy.
And this is the most important thing you do not understand! That’s why it makes you feel that Orthodoxy is associated precisely with Russia with our worldview and self-identity. Got it?

[akunin]

Ukraine is on the verge of a new war, in comparison with which even the current civil war may seem to be “flowers”, despite thousands and thousands of its victims. This is a truly serious danger of a religious war.

there will be no war, the Moscow patriarchate must come to terms with the fact that the loot and real estate will float away (they will get nothing from us). The church is not fighting for souls - it is gaining money. Ukraine has swallowed the Maidan, it will also swallow.

[Ros 56]

God knows we didn’t want a confrontation with Ukraine either in secular or religious life, but apparently the time comes when you need to determine who you are, with the Satanists who measure religion by the cost of churches and parishes and traitors who betrayed their fathers and grandfathers who laid their heads in the fight against the Nazis, and imposing on the people Bandera and his worldview, or you with the truly Orthodox and descendants of the soldiers of the Victors of fascism. The choice for many will be difficult, but it will have to be done. And the clash will be inevitable, but not in the light of the contradictions between Russia and Ukraine of a material and national character, but the clash will be between good and evil, which can not be humanly estimated.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Examenatornick

Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

It does not decorate you and your moral character! God, the Divine in the soul of a Russian person, is so intimate and not put on display to everyone differently ... It is like a mother, children, wife ... pure and not for sticky, greedy gossip ..

[Examenatornick]

this is my reaction to the fact that my uncle is taller, he began to teach everyone that it is not necessary to write the abbreviation "ROC" but to write Ruuusskaya Pravoslaavnaya Church Church ... that's all. I respect the feelings of believers as long as they respect the feelings of non-believers. "You" believe well, and write as you please, there is no need to be clever in front of those who do not believe.

[Snail N9]

Oh, yes, some kind of "war". "Orthodoxy" has long been, is not something so necessary in the "post-Soviet space", for which one must fight with arms in hand. To defend a bowl of stew, and even then, the ass is not always lifted from the couch, and then some kind of "Orthodoxy" ...

[Avior]

After several cases, such as a refusal right at the funeral to sing the funeral of a child who was dead, the reputation of the Russian Orthodox Church has fallen sharply in Ukraine.
If the Russian Orthodox Church breaks away from the general union of Orthodox churches, it will hit her even harder, wait for the accusations that she is only interested in money ..
What the Orthodox churches that arose in Ukraine were accused of in the Russian Orthodox Church, if the Russian Orthodox Church withdraws from the Orthodox Union, it will hit them themselves.
It seems to me that there will be no way out, for the Russian Orthodox Church it will be a bigger blow than recognizing autocephaly for the Ukrainian church.

[bober1982]

Quote: Avior

like refusing directly to the funeral service for a child who was tragically killed, the Russian Orthodox Church’s reputation has fallen sharply in Ukraine.

About the child, this is of course from the field of ukropropaganda, they perverted everything and turned it upside down, not of course you are, but local propagandists, you just repeat.
About the reputation, which, in your words, has fallen, you ask those who went to the religious procession when they introduced the entire Bandera company into fear.

[Avior]

yeah, ukrpropaganda
https://diak-kuraev.livejournal.com/1882512.html

That is why I say that the boy Zhenya can bury the future of the UOC-MP. So it is in the interests of the Moscow Patriarchate to put pressure on Metropolitan of Kiev. Onufriy so that he publicly dissociated himself from Luka Mudishchev-Zaporozhye and his invented "canons".

[bober1982]

This is a well-known church provocator, I mean Father Andrew, it’s even worse than dill propaganda.

[Avior]

well yes. that provocateur, that ukrpropaganda, that something else.
And Metropolitan Alexander (Drabinenko), who also condemned the actions of the priest, is also a provocateur?
Well, for the Russian Orthodox Church such a provocateur on a provocateur

[bober1982]

Drabinko, not Drabinenko, you should at least correctly indicate the names of your idols, this good gentleman has a distant relationship to Orthodoxy.

[Avior]

Exactly, Drobinko, Metropolitan Pereyaslav-Khmelnitsky and Vishnevsky, Vicar of the Kiev Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.
What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?

[bober1982]

Quote: Avior

Exactly, Drobinko

Do not consider that I am clinging to your words, but not Drobinko, but Drabinko, well, what are you kidding or something, Roskolnikiv Alexander

Quote: Avior

What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?

And, now this is no longer funny, jokes aside, this is very serious.
As long as the Holy and Apostolic Orthodox Church exists, there are so many similar metropolitans and protodeacons mentioned by you. These are all demons that are idle, I mean, not Kuraev and Drabinko, I hasten to reassure you, these are their tricks, demonic.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Avior

Exactly, Drobinko, Metropolitan Pereyaslav-Khmelnitsky and Vishnevsky, Vicar of the Kiev Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.
What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?

Drobinko ?! I apologize for interfering, but I read about this priest-gideonist ten years ago, the Internet was littered with funny pictures, and you look, he has already become a metropolitan with such a reputation. Gee, so in the Patriarchs will crawl through.

[bober1982]

Quote: Stirbjorn

his funny pictures the Internet was littered with

Yes, a funny guy who knows how to enjoy life.

[Rusj]

It was visible to the Russian Orthodox Church at a religious procession. ! And the reputation of schismatics. So keep quiet better.

[Waldemar]

First they will declare separation, then they will begin according to the old scheme a union with Catholics ... it was already. Orthodox pervert. Well bastards

[bober1982]

Quote: Valdemar

First they will declare separation, then they will begin according to the old scheme a union with Catholics ... it was already.

So, after all, the appointed Istanbul exarchs from this same category, so to speak, with a further perspective, outlined by you.

[Alex66]

The question is not a simple one, well, we are against it and what is it that, according to human logic, this is the property of the MP, so what is the main question of the church about whose buildings, structures, financial flows? But the salvation of the soul, for which Christ came to us, is it not for salvation, it may be better to give the earthly riches to his brothers and save them and himself than to war and lose our souls.

[canurodes]

All this leads to the final transformation of Ukraine into the UOC-caliphate. For all this, Uncle Sam looms again. Donbass snarls, in Syria, the barmaley were driven into a sump, well, Erdogan is on his own mind, it's time to pull out a trump card from the deck. The situation will lead to even more severe persecution of the UOC-MP; in fact, it will be outright genocide. They will start squeezing laurels to begin with and squeezing clergy - a station suitcase. The people brought to the right condition - it is to blame for the Muscovites. For us, there will be only one question to be Ukraine or not.

[Snail N9]

Or maybe this is the point ....

[Nikolay R]

Or maybe you justify your sins and unbelief?

[Snail N9]

"Faith to show" does not exist, dear ....

[Nikolay R]

So you my friend is a theologian! And, excuse me, which seminary-academy did you graduate from, where did you study?

[Snail N9]

Not .... I’m not fooled .... You’re my friend, here: https: //forum.optina.ru/
And, about teaching "theology" .... it's funny that there are "budget places" for "this" (it is interesting to read the reasons for choosing this education in the article): https://ria.ru/religion/20170712/1498340348 .html

[Nikolay R]

Then it is clear. From ignoramuses, dvoyochniki and envious.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

Or maybe you justify your sins and unbelief?

But as a matter of fact, you have nothing to say? Replacing the thesis.

[Nikolay R]

And what was stolen from you this car and boat, which is in the photo? There is a commandment not to steal, and there is Article 158 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Then report to the police. And if not, then the commandment is not to envy. This is about you.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

there is a commandment do not envy.

Quote the scripture, please!

[Nikolay R]

Tenth commandment

Do not covet your neighbor's house; do not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his slave, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nothing that your neighbor has.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

Tenth commandment

Ahhh ... And since cars, yachts and watches are not indicated in it, you can wish for these other things and even use them.
Or want to say that all this stuff is framed for those people who ride on them and wear them?

[Nikolay R]

No, just saying, do not envy. It will be easier to live. And live longer. And then a toad will strangle, and prematurely possible ..., from envy ...

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

And then a toad will strangle, and prematurely possible ..., from envy ..

It turns out that there is less Christian in you than in me

[Nikolay R]

I’m worried about you, very Christian.

[Svateev]

Quote: Nikolai R

I'm worried about you

Such concern is Pharisaism. Not taught, or what?

[Svateev]

Quote: Snail N9

Or maybe this is the point ....

So all this was granted to our priests by the Lord! Sin to refuse ...

[Olddetractor]

splitting the vast Orthodox world

it is in this direction that the Ukrainian caesaropapists, incited by the amy, are acting

[akula]

Even judging by the comments, we fall into the Middle Ages. And they lead us there, as always stupid authorities and religion. All this is the beginning of the end of our civilization. Is it interesting to quickly fall apart or the collapse will drag on? One hope that smart and strong people will come to power.

[bober1982]

Quote: akula

All this is the beginning of the end of our civilization.

All this is the end of our civilization, and not the beginning of the end, nothing unusual is happening, and no smart and strong people will come to power. The world lies in evil, the prince of this world, is near at the door and stuff, this was said long before the Middle Ages. Everything goes according to plan.

[enky]

Quote: For example

Quote: Stirbjorn

If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.

The foundation of the Russian world? Well, now it’s clear why in our country anyone who has reached the power immediately becomes a billionaire and forgets about the homeland and people, apparently they take an example from the patriarch ... Historical note: in the pre-Petrine documents that were not censored - the current church is called Orthodox, but the Orthodox, with which the people lived for 1000 years, through forests, but dispersed from foreign lands, from where it does not even show its nose.

[Snail N9]

At least one noticed this ... By the way, I have been in the "Old Believer villages" in the Urals and Siberia (geological youth), by the way, I encountered a very unpleasant attitude towards myself from the Old Believer fraternity - they will open the door for you, even though that you look far away "not a Caesar" ..... but their girls were still running to our camp ... oh, youth ...

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: Enky

Well, now it’s clear why in our country anyone who has reached the power immediately becomes a billionaire and forgets about the Motherland and the people, apparently they take an example from the patriarch ...

Well duck affects atheistic education. There is no arguing against reflexes.

[akula]

Jesus was right when he said that cowardice and greed would destroy humanity.

[earloop]

Everything is natural and objective. The "crack" has long been born. And without "treatment", according to the objective laws of nature, the "crack" spontaneously increased its "size" in time, up to the moment of the catastrophe, the split. The split occurred during the centuries-old arch-passive contemplation of a huge "host of doctors" behind the development of a "crack." If the healers had timely "healed" the "crack" formed by "blunting the tops" of the "crack" formed, then there would be no split.

[midshipman]

The Moscow Orthodox Church should first of all anathematize the tagged and the drunk. Really it was not clear back in 1990 what their policy would lead to.

[bogart047]

Orthodoxy, like Christianity, has long made slaves of people. This is opium that cannot be consumed. Look at how their elite lives - not all oligarchs live like that.

[security guard]

dear, is someone forcing you into the Church forcibly? No? Well, shut up. We have a thousand years of Orthodoxy and no one considers himself to be slaves, but about the opium Ostap Suleiman Bertha Maria Bender Bey tell.

[EwgenyZ]

Quote: bogart047

Orthodoxy, like Christianity, has long made slaves of people.

I, as I understand it, paganism and atheism make a man free?

[bogart047]

Well, at least they do not squander for insulting the feelings of special believers. Special - of course, who.

[security guard]

stupid things. Bartholomew is not the pope of the Orthodox world, he is, in fact, no one, and there is no way to call him. their real patriarch in prison.
we have the Cathedral Church, a Turkish citizen without a flock, has one vote;) the patriarchs of all churches must agree. primarily the Russian Orthodox Church, and so it’s just a clowning

[Zhurba]

And what then did Gundyaei go to Istanbul?
baklava to eat?
Not overeating, the stomach is normal.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

and who is "Gundyaey" ?!

[23424636]

Ecumenism of Patriarch Cyril did his job. I remember in 2008, pockmarked Yushchenko invited Bartholomew to the 1020th anniversary of baptism, and there was now the late Patriarch Alexy 2, who had a tough stance on the actions of the crafty Bartholomew in Estonia, where a disadvantaged Turkish citizen (Patriarch Bartholomew) climbed by analogy as they did in Finland. Only God's providence and the strong position of Patriarch Alexy made the completely weak and weak-willed Metropolitan of Kiev Vladimir take a neutral position and delay this action. Now, Valtsman (Poroshenko), in instilling cIA curators, behaved completely unceremoniously and climbed into Orthodoxy through the support of anathema Denisenko. which had been deprived of all regalia and titles by the Orthodox Metropolitan Court for a long time because he lived without chastity and had children, that the monk was unacceptable and did all kinds of blasphemous actions. .Orthodox Ukraine know this and of course they will never come to schismatics to perform burial or baptism requirements, but those close to the authorities go to these places where Satan rules the ball and make themselves a toy in the villains ’villains. The Russian Orthodox Church has always been cautious of the monks of Constantinople after the Turkish conquest of Constantinople, seeing them as enemy slogans and did not let them into their lands after careful monitoring and verification. The only thing that can be negative is the complexity of the existence of the Russian Panthelimon Monastery on Mount Athos. Archimadrid Eulogius the Russian monk, miraculously ahead of the Ukrainian blackman in the elections, stands for Russia and the people. And may God help him. As for Patriarch Kirill - to forbid all monasteries to prayer for the health of Patriarch Bartholomew., That’s how Patriarch Alexy threatened the crafty resident of Constantinople (Istanbul) Bartholomew to sit quietly because he knows that from the opinion of the believers of Russia, a bell in his church (ringing only indoors) can break and beat a schismatic.

[Zhurba]

Kiryuha had to fulfill the promise, and the above lies.

[bogart047]

what kind of Santa Barbara is necessary) I even left attempts to sort out these ranks such as the Ecumenical, Galactic, and spatio-temporal patriarchs ... Why not immediately measure yachts and palaces?

[Zhurba]

Quote: ver_

..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

And he is definitely a Jew !?

[Mordvin 3]

EwgenyZ,
Fucking you theologian.

[Atenon]

Oh oh, just tell me what you are cracking for your loot. A person is free to believe in anyone, and then he will be rewarded for it. For whom, but for the church, I certainly would not have fought, especially "not kill" ©. The Orthodox Church itself then arose from the fact that the loot did not want to send.

[Atenon]

And now the patriarch will have to change from an armored mers to an armored Audi and buy a yacht less;)

[Graz]

as comrade Stalin said
-No human, no problem (s)

[Nikolay R]

Svateev,
So the Pharisees of Christ just crucified with envy.

[Doliva63]

“The Russian Orthodox Church directly says that war has actually been declared in Constantinople...”
Did they support the collapse of the Union? And then - the domino principle. The Moscow Patriarchate will be limited to the Moscow Ring Road, and the rest of the uluses will have their own. But first they will overthrow Lukashenko.

[Bessarab]

That's for sure. There is no worse enemy for the Kremlin liberals besides Father Lukashenko. A bad example shows how, without any natural resources, to keep the country entrusted to him by God and the Belarusians in order, cleanliness and reach the level of production of the BSSR before the liberal revolution.

[Doliva63]

Quote: midshipman

The Moscow Orthodox Church should first of all anathematize the tagged and the drunk. Really it was not clear back in 1990 what their policy would lead to.

Surely the Russian Orthodox Church did not support the drunk?! Then I must anathematize myself

[Forestol]

Let me remind you that the same Russian Orthodox Church anathematized Leo Tolstoy, convinced Nicholas II that it was better to renounce, remained silent in the revolution, and in the 90s made Nicholas a holy martyr, violating the canons, since Nicholas II did not show the Miracle either during his life or in his death.. .. So the Russian Orthodox Church is also prone to making mistakes, to put it mildly.

[Forestol]

Axiom: there is not a single religion in the world that could unite peoples. But this does not mean that religions need to be destroyed. Unfortunately, for the last 30 years the Russian Orthodox Church has been no longer engaged in the spiritual, but in the worldly, the acquisition of land and real estate. This greatly spoils the image of the church. But in his greed, even the Patriarch forgot that all faiths have the right to equal rights..... And who is stopping Muslims from demanding adequate benefits? Or the Jews building the largest synagogue in the center of Moscow? And I will support them, as an Orthodox Christian, because it will be fair. But what will happen next.....the aphthokephaly of Ukraine will be baby talk compared to this.

[Stalingradpobeda]

It is sad to see how impoverished the Orthodox faith is in Russian people. The Orthodox Church is the dwelling place of God on earth.

[Overland whale]

in original Hebrew Knisia

Excuse me, what other Hebrew is in the original? Please do not confuse the Old Testament, which was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament, the original language of which is the Greek language of that time - Koine. The only book of the NT not originally written in Greek is the Gospel of Matthew, whose original language was Aramaic.

[gla172]

.....how sorry for you....or maybe not...

..........Orthodoxy has nothing to do with religion.
Derived from the Latin verb re-ligio, which means to tie.
And Orthodoxy is an original Russian pre-Christian (pre-religious) word.
BY WORK(S) TO LOVE.
That is, one stubbornly walks through the world, or strongly strives for enlightened knowledge.
...or VIT- i.e. turn RA - so to speak, one level of knowledge upward (towards the light).......

[Note 2]

Representatives of the Russian Orthodox Church said that if autocephaly is recognized, they will sever relations with Constantinople.

[Bessarab]

You can say whatever you want. But Constantinople doesn’t give a damn about Moscow’s chatter. In addition, the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is from the same company as Bartholomew. They have the same boss.

[rruvim]

I heard that Vladyka Hilarion said “that all diplomatic steps have been exhausted...”. So what happened after that? Nothing!!!

[Avior]

yeah. will become schismatics, break away from other Orthodox churches

[rruvim]

The intervention of the Patriarchate of Constantinople in our canonical territory is nonsense or a conflict. I think that the Exarchs “envoys” will not lead the situation to a split. Not only Holy Mount Athos, but also many monasteries and Parishes in the Americas and Temples are subject to Constantinople. It is important how the Greek Metropolis will behave in this conflict... In any case, the intervention of the Patriarchate of Constantinople in canonical the space of the Russian Orthodox Church is incorrect and heretical. The assignment of Autocephaly is a matter of the Ecumenical Councils, but not of the pro-American and pro-Canadian local Church, which in essence is the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

[ludrosia]

So that this does not happen: so that there is no split in religion, so that Ukraine is not in NATO and all other things like that -
I HAVE ALREADY WRITE TO YOU A MILLION TIMES - UKRAINE SHOULD BE A COMPOSITION OF RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN RUSSIA AND RUSSIAN TROOPS SHOULD STAND THERE!
Ukraine, the Russians living there, the Ukrainians have long dreamed of becoming part of Russia.
And that bunch of bastards, Banderas and proteges of the USA and the West - deport the fuck out of Ukraine - to the USA and the West.

[Bo Yari]

naivety and self-deception. everything is different there... everything is different

[rruvim]

All yours...

[bober1982]

https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-09/1536659069_bajden.jpg, и здесь свои
I can’t upload my picture, Bartholomew with Biden, a very soulful photo.

[rruvim]

Bishop Daniil (Zelinsky) in the “background” “scares” me more...

[bober1982]

The “Zapadenets”, a Uniate and Catholic entity, then moved to the so-called HRC USA, one of the current exarchs newly appointed by Bartholomew in Ukraine, will apparently prepare a union. This is what's "scaring"

[Normal ok]

of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space.

WHY LIE SO? They would write directly that almost a third of the parishioners of the UOC-MP live in Ukraine. And the main thing is that in Ukraine the UOC-MP has the largest amount of real estate. Then the whole dispute will be clear.

[M. Michelson]

The greatest victory of the West: the Orthodox did not share the opium for the people!

[pormezan]

Horror, the 21st century is just around the corner, and people are raving about religious wars! Haven't people gotten wiser over the centuries? A normal person does not need religions at all. Any religion (even scientific communism) is just a tool for controlling and suppressing thought.

[rruvim]

There is a lot of thought in Orthodoxy. There are more Orthodox theologians in 2000 years than all the philosophers during this time combined.

[moisha]

At one time, it was Moscow that held the Ecumenical Patriarch hostage for about three years, until he agreed to transfer the patriarchate from Kyiv. What thousand-year history of Orthodoxy in Moscow can we talk about? / Moscow is, after all, eight hundred and odd. Novgorod has never been Russia. Until the 18th century, on all European maps, the current Russian Federation was called Tataria, Tartaria, or at best Muscovy.

[Bo Yari]

so it was, Godunov lured the ecumenical patriarch

[CRASH]

For Jesus' sake, throw a knife into this pile, the last one left is right. profit, and we will continue to live normally, we lived for 70 years without priests and would continue to live.

[SVD]

Dart2027,
Ask Lenin. His idea is to create national republics to break the Russian Empire.

[nathanael]

What? Crusades again......

[oracul]

This is not a universal event, but one of the unpleasant episodes of global life, forcing Russia to finally shed its veneer of naivety regarding the possibility of reaching an agreement with the West on a peaceful solution to emerging problems. The Golden Billion recognizes only the primacy of power and the priority of its decisions regarding international ones. It’s not for nothing that over the last half century they have so scrupulously and purposefully built a global system of world governance exclusively for themselves: IMF, WTO, SWIFT, Internet, dollar, as the main currency of the world, allowing them to control not just world trade and pump it into the US economy through acquisition by others countries owe trillions of much-needed funds to the Americans, but also impose their weapons on them, essentially making them unarmed. The United States, with the help of bribery, slowly took over the UN with its institutions (the same Hague Tribunal, OPCW), the IOC and WADA, and the leading media. And now it has again come to religious strife (remember the Crusades). It is good for the Anglo-Saxons that the Judases (the same Bartholomew) have never been transferred among people since ancient times. And apparently it was no coincidence that they made a fairly successful attempt to destroy Catholicism in all its manifestations from within, starting an endless reformation and destroying its basic values, pitting radical Islam against other religions in the Middle East in a war. Now it has come to Orthodoxy, which plays the role of a spiritual anchor for a significant part of the people. Another vivid manifestation of the principle - divide and conquer.

[Bo Yari]

everything is returning to normal...once we ourselves stole the church throne from Kyiv, now it is returning there...

[AleBors]

The hierarchs of our Church showed determination and composure. Everything is correct. And regarding the property of the Russian Orthodox Church MP in Ukraine, I think everyone has already come to terms with the loss....
But this was allowed from above in order for there to be final clarity...
The Gospel of Matthew (chap. 25, vv. 31–33): “When the Son of man comes in his glory and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory, and all the nations will gather before him; and he will separate one from the other, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and he will set the sheep on His right hand, and the goats on the left. ”