Military Review

The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world

354
Ukraine is on the verge of a new war, in comparison with which even the current civil war may seem to be “flowers”, despite thousands and thousands of its victims. This is a truly serious danger of a religious war. And this danger is connected with the actual willingness of the Constantinople patriarch to recognize the so-called autocephaly of the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate. Behind the intricacies of the relationship between various Orthodox conglomerates, when decisions are made in private, there is a great danger not only for Ukrainian believers, but also for the whole of world Orthodoxy, which actually turned out to be an abyss of schism.


The essence of the matter is that literally a few days after the "fraternal" meeting with the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, Kirill, the Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the United States and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt to legitimize the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate, which was previously unrecognizable in the Orthodox world, headed by Filaret (Denisenko).

The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world


In the Russian Orthodox Church they say directly that a war has been declared in Constantinople throughout world Orthodoxy, since Bartholomew “usurped the right of primacy of honor”, ​​deciding that he is free to make decisions for all Orthodox Christians. It should be noted here that in Orthodoxy there is no “earthly leader”, and Jesus Christ is considered the head of the church - therefore all decisions are made at the councils with the invitation of the heads of all the churches. Bartholomew decided to try on the "clothes" of the so-called "Eastern Pope".

From the statement of the head of the Department for External Church Relations of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk (TK "Russia24)":
The Patriarchate of Constantinople, thus, now openly embarked on the warpath. And this war is not only against the Russian Church, not only against the Ukrainian Orthodox people. This war, in essence, is against the unity of all world Orthodoxy.


Experts point out that a real war can begin in Ukraine not only for the minds of Ukrainians, but also for church property. And in this war earlier radicals have already manifested themselves, which carry out a frank seizure of temples.

It must be stated that sometimes it is the wars on religious grounds in stories civilizations became the most protracted and brought rivers of blood.

Western “partners”, for whom the security services are clearly behind, amid the latest events are clearly ready to accept congratulations from interested persons on the largest-scale schism in the entire history of Orthodoxy. Many compare this schism with the schism of the Christian church into Orthodox and Catholic (it was in the XI century).

Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. In this regard, it is quite clear who is directed against the decision to bring a split into the vast Orthodox world.
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  1. Observer2014
    Observer2014 10 September 2018 08: 07
    +25
    The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world
    Call it what you want. It amazes against the background of worldly problems with what decisiveness the ROC acts !!!! And what can not be avoided. Our worldly rulers have something to learn. There are no shades in relations and second and tenth warnings and chances to change your mind. Instant and harsh reaction.
    Bartholomew decided to try on the “clothes” of the so-called “Eastern Pope”.
    the crown will fly off quickly or the "oriental dad" will reap without a flock.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 10 September 2018 08: 10
      +4
      Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?
      1. For example
        For example 10 September 2018 08: 14
        +11
        Russian Orthodox Church. Without abbreviations. Or where are we in a hurry?
        The head of our church is Jesus Christ.
        If God is with me, then who is against me?
        Quote: 210ox
        Announce anathema?

        This is for you pinned? Type snapped? Where's the emoticon?

        Our church has always been a civilizational foundation. And it's not about property. The thing is that the Turk decided to become a Turkish pope. I decided to dictate. Dictate to the Russians.
        Constantinople does not smell here. He is just a Turk.
        1. OrcSWAT
          OrcSWAT 10 September 2018 08: 21
          +1
          All sorts of predictions pop up in my memory about the war between Russia and Turkey, God forbid that these were forerunners.
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 10 September 2018 08: 26
            -4
            If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 10 September 2018 08: 38
              +1
              Quote: Stas157
              If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?
              I would share the Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church hi
              1. For example
                For example 10 September 2018 09: 12
                +15
                Quote: Stirbjorn
                If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

                The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 10 September 2018 09: 27
                  +18
                  Quote: For example
                  And she is basis our Russian world.

                  I have nothing against the Orthodox Church, all the more so since all my relatives are Orthodox ... but, why did the communist Putin, having dressed the cross, still not be able to unite Russia and Ukraine, as two parts of one whole Russian world? Under the USSR, we were together without this basics, and now, despite the fact that the church is in favor, it itself will now break up into the UOC and the Russian Orthodox Church. hi
                  1. Alena Frolovna
                    Alena Frolovna 10 September 2018 11: 36
                    +7
                    Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation

                    And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

                    Communist Putin wearing a cross, could not unite Russia and Ukraine

                    And what is the Lord Putin to unite something and why he had to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged to put the right thoughts into every Ukrainian head and make him read the right books.

                    Also:


                    And about basis:

                    This BASIS - THE ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this. Without faith, not life, but simply existence.
                    1. Leshy1975
                      Leshy1975 10 September 2018 12: 26
                      +5
                      Quote: Alena Frolovna
                      Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation

                      And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

                      Communist Putin wearing a cross, could not unite Russia and Ukraine

                      And what is the Lord Putin to unite something and why he had to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged to put the right thoughts into every Ukrainian head and make him read the right books.

                      Also:


                      And about basis:

                      This BASIS - THE ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this. Without faith, not life, but simply existence.

                      Firstly, we were together before the USSR. Yes, yes, there is such a funny thing, history. Funny because everyone twirls it as he wants. Old Russian princes turned over in their graves when they became Ukrainian from Russians, and they didn’t even know such a word. And despite family ties, some were declared Muscovites, and others Ukrainians. Therefore, we were together formally and in fact, we have a common history.
                      Secondly, "And what is Putin the Lord to unite something and why should he do it?" Here I partially agree, to Putin to the Lord, as to Kiev with cancer. And about the rallying, well. Instead of rallying under Putin, we really got, on the contrary, further division in the post-Soviet space, as well as growing division and stratification in the state, of which he is the president, well, division under him reached the Russian Orthodox Church. Those. the tendency is that the next manifestation of such government may be the division and disintegration of the Russian Federation. That's right, first in the minds, and then in fact. Why is the nationwide rally to him? I agree, he doesn't need it. He has his own close-knit team (Medvedev, Chubais and others) and together they mow the loot together, not to the rest.
                      And the last: "This BASIS - ORTHODOX FAITH - was, is and will be until the end of the century and no enemies can destroy it: there are many examples of this"
                      There is a modern example: the split of the Russian Orthodox Church, albeit by external efforts, is it a manifestation of the strength of the enemies or our strength? Write: there are many examples of this. Are there any contemporary examples besides the split? No, that the Russian people will win, I DO NOT Doubt. SHOULD win, the Russian people were formed at too high a price, I cannot believe in the senselessness of such a price. But this victory will be both over internal enemies (Putin and his friends) and over external ones (Russia, albeit partially, will restore its historical territory). Will the Orthodox faith underlie such a victory? It may well be, but only without the oligarchs from the Russian Orthodox Church (expensive watches, expensive cars, yachts, planes). And other, so "necessary" "church" utensils.
                      1. Blackgrifon
                        Blackgrifon 11 September 2018 17: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        ROC split

                        Question! And where in the article is written about the split Russian Orthodox Church?
                        Incidentally, the struggle between Constantinople and Moscow for the right to dominate the Orthodox world has been going on since the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
                    2. Stas157
                      Stas157 10 September 2018 13: 04
                      +8
                      Quote: Alena Frolovna
                      And who told you that we were together. Formally, it may be, but not in fact.

                      Alena, let me conduct an educational program, Ukraine and the RSFSR were one state in the USSR. And before that Little Russia was generally a historical region of the Russian Empire. And not at all formally, but naturally, as one contemporary classic, whom you respect in every possible way, said: - "Ukraine and Russia are one people."
                      Quote: Alena Frolovna
                      And what is Putin Lord to rally something and why did he have to do it? Vladimir Vladimirovich should not and is not obliged

                      Then let it give way to another! This is the very first task, the main role, of the true leader of the nation - rally nation (usually around a national idea, not bare patriotism). It is clear that the current Guarantor does not at all play the role of leader ... But he doesn’t have a national idea either!
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 September 2018 19: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Stas157
                        Before that, Little Russia was generally a historical area of ​​the Russian Empire.

                        But why the hell was to create this Ukraine?
                    3. free
                      free 10 September 2018 20: 51
                      +1
                      Without faith, not life, but simply existence.
                      So the foundation of faith can be different! You don’t need to destroy Orthodoxy, believe it. Although any materialist will tell you that religion does not stand up to criticism, logic is stubborn. The moral foundation of Orthodoxy is correct, but there is nothing more to take from there.
                    4. g graph
                      g graph 11 September 2018 05: 44
                      +1
                      so one can believe not only in the Orthodox god. There are many gods, as well as their disciples. And you can also believe in the forces of nature, the spirit of the family, the ancestors, the strength of the body, the strength of the spirit, the commune and just in people.

                      Read books on the "Orthodox Christianization" of Rus. In what ways and sacrifices Orthodoxy came. In Eastern Siberia, 90% of the population was massacred. This is the story that they do not want to talk about out loud.
                      1. oracul
                        oracul 11 September 2018 06: 43
                        +1
                        Fear God! Before sculpting such numbers, give facts, not invent from the head.
                      2. Blackgrifon
                        Blackgrifon 11 September 2018 17: 36
                        +2
                        Quote: ggraph
                        Read books on the "Orthodox Christianization" of Russia. In what ways and sacrifices Orthodoxy came. 90% of the population was massacred in Eastern Siberia

                        ABOUT! And also Circassians, Pomors, etc. They cut out everyone and everything, and then they cloned and repopulated it. Stop! If they cut it out, then where did all the local Buddhists go? And how then is Buddhism, the bulk of the followers of which in Russia lives in Siberia, the second largest religion in Russia in terms of followers?
                    5. Sweetheart
                      Sweetheart 11 September 2018 20: 02
                      -4
                      Quote: Alena Frolovna
                      Also:

                      You put this Judas. Denikinak what?
                      to remind you how this battered White Guard advised the Americans how to destroy Russia \ USSR?
                      I remind you. https://cont.ws/@Colonel-Cassad/1038969
                      you have good authorities ... one of the figures Nikolashka is the second, you have Denikin .. and the result is one, the country was destroyed ...
                  2. Govorun
                    Govorun 10 September 2018 12: 28
                    +2
                    And what does Putin have to do with it ??? There was one ideology under the USSR, and as you say, you lived tightly ... how long and how long you lived like that ... 70 years old?!. And what later became of the USSR, it fell apart and the reason is clear, it’s a betrayal, and that’s a betrayal one, it contributed to the separation of people in the church, as happened with the division of churches into eastern and western, so that certainly Putin is not at all sideways, and now this is pure provocation to the separation of Orthodoxy from within.
                    1. Alex777
                      Alex777 10 September 2018 13: 04
                      +6
                      In the press it was that Poroshenko brought to Constantinople $ 10 million and promised another 15 when the tomos received.
                      The offices of the UOC in the states and Canada, he back in the 90s cellar. I want to eat something. hi
                  3. freejack
                    freejack 11 September 2018 03: 27
                    0
                    Under the USSR, we were together without this foundation, and now ... it will fall apart into the UOC and the Russian Orthodox Church.


                    In my opinion, the matter is not in Putin, and not in the USSR ..... Just in those days, the Anglo-Saxon fire-breathing still didn’t conduct its satanic dance between the minds and souls of Russians and Ukrainians ... There was always a gap between us, but such a gap began to appear in the gracious (for not pure strength) 91-m ... Here. We have reached the absurd apogee ... Or maybe we are still on the way to it ??? ..... request
                2. Lara Croft
                  Lara Croft 10 September 2018 22: 09
                  +4
                  Quote: For example
                  Quote: Stirbjorn
                  If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

                  The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.

                  Fear God and ignorance of history, the ROC gained independence from Constantinople in the 16th century, which are 1 years old?
                  The priests did not divide power again, it was already with the same Constantinople ...
                  1. Stalingradpobeda
                    Stalingradpobeda 11 September 2018 14: 17
                    +2
                    Not priests, but priests.
            2. Nikolay Fedorov
              Nikolay Fedorov 10 September 2018 12: 03
              +6
              Quote: Stas157
              If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

              Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world? At least somewhere in the article or in someone else’s comment, besides yours, something similar was said ?! Or is it important for you to inject a thought so that it goes on for a walk?
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 10 September 2018 13: 26
                +1
                Quote: Nikolai Fedorov
                Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world?

                And you are only ready to throw charges, or are you able to apologize too?
                We carefully read the text:
                Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt the legitimization of the previously unrecognized in the Orthodox world UOC Kiev Patriarchate led by Filaret (Denisenko)
                What is this if not an attempt to split the Russian world and fragment the Russian Orthodox Church? Read on!
                in Orthodoxy there are approximately 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space. In this regard it is quite clear who the decision to split in the vast Orthodox world is directed against.
                I even specially highlighted the text where Alexey Volodin pointed out this directly! What is interesting about this meant a respected author?
                1. Nikolay Fedorov
                  Nikolay Fedorov 10 September 2018 18: 35
                  +3
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Quote: Nikolai Fedorov
                  Mr. provocateur, where did you see that the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world?

                  We carefully read the text:
                  Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev. In fact, they will attempt the legitimization of the previously unrecognized in the Orthodox world UOC Kiev Patriarchate led by Filaret (Denisenko)
                  What is this if not an attempt to split the Russian world and fragment the Russian Orthodox Church? Read on!
                  in Orthodoxy there are approximately 300 million believers, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space. In this regard it is quite clear who the decision to split in the vast Orthodox world is directed against.

                  Truly - I look into the book, I see a fig. How did you manage to form the phrase "the Orthodox Church against the Russian world" from what you were concentrating on here for me? How did you get the idea that Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople is the Orthodox Church, and his actions should be viewed as actions of the Orthodox Church?
                  And your persistence in upholding the idea you have thrown in allows you not only to guess, but to be sure of the correctness of my initial appeal.
            3. Klingon
              Klingon 10 September 2018 12: 04
              +16
              Why is the church at all? I'm just troubled by the assertive religiosity of the government, the elites and ..opium for the people! Where did science remain, as in the era of the USSR? What kind of church is sprinkling rockets and bombs with holy water? Medieval obscurantism 2.0
              1. Leshy1975
                Leshy1975 10 September 2018 12: 39
                +7
                Quote: Klingon
                Why is the church at all? I'm just troubled by the assertive religiosity of the government, the elites and ..opium for the people! Where did science remain, as in the era of the USSR? What kind of church is sprinkling rockets and bombs with holy water? Medieval obscurantism 2.0

                This is not obscurantism. Orthodoxy itself is not at all considered obscurantism. Just here, for the authorities and leadership of the modern Russian Orthodox Church there is a significant mutual benefit. The Russian Orthodox Church shares its authority with the authorities (well, the president stood next to the patriarch and bowed, which means he’s a good person, we will support him), and in return the government is divided immediately more material (transfer of property, including previously owned, legislative curtsy, etc.) Both are beneficial. This also relates to the people, the object of such joint actions is the people. Here to spirituality, hardly. Because there are no contemporary examples of highly spiritual deeds from either the authorities or high priests. (from the government for sure, about the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church, maybe I’m not aware, although we know about the reverse examples)
              2. Paranoid50
                Paranoid50 12 September 2018 00: 16
                +1
                Quote: Klingon
                Medieval obscurantism 2.0

                In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
                Obscurantism and jazz
                The idols bring themselves into electric ecstasy
                In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
                Obscurantism and jazz
                Oh, you won’t believe: everything is stolen before us ...
                Obscurantism and jazz ...

                E. Shklyarsky ("Picnic")
          2. Don
            Don 10 September 2018 08: 43
            +13
            Quote: OrcSWAT
            All sorts of predictions pop up in my memory about the war between Russia and Turkey, God forbid that these were forerunners.

            "The one who has fallen in spirit is the first to perish." What scares you so much about a possible war with Turkey? We fought with them either 11 times or 12 times. We always won, with the exception of one war. No one overseas would really risk their head over the Ottomans. And Bartholomew, with him everything is already clear. This is to be expected. As my teacher of higher mathematics used to say: where it is thin, there it breaks.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 10 September 2018 08: 49
              +11
              Quote: Donskoy
              What scares you so much in a possible war with Turkey?

              The Turks are here sideways, I can’t understand if it weren’t for the American friends of Bartholomew, he would have been thrown out of Turkey long ago.
              1. jjj
                jjj 10 September 2018 11: 14
                +7
                Exactly. Bartholomew feeds about five percent of the Orthodox. And his parishes, basically, are in the USA. For us, he is nobody. The Lord will judge everyone
        2. himRa
          himRa 10 September 2018 08: 36
          +17
          Quote: For example
          Our church has always been a civilizational foundation.

          wassat You know the proverb:
          ,, Monday is a hard day, "
          I can tell the story of the onna ...
          And this does not happen at all in the Soviet period. wink
          When Russia adopted Christianity, those who were not at Sunday prayers in the church were blasted !!!
          And it should be noted that the Russians stubbornly did not want to forget their ancient gods and the transition process took centuries, and some were never accepted!
          Further: I can not agree with the author of the article: about the most bloody wars due to religion ... the most bloody were 1 and WWII
          and the Japanese did not destroy the Chinese out of faith!
          In our enlightened world, it is not in vain that almost all the countries of the world have separated the church from the state ... believe in a “higher power”
          those of the human race who do not want to learn, receive, and create new knowledge, thanks to which mankind has survived in a fierce struggle in the past! hi
        3. Examenatornick
          Examenatornick 10 September 2018 08: 49
          +4
          found something to get to the bottom. Someone apparently "ROC" writes in abbreviated form. Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.
          1. Vasyan1971
            Vasyan1971 10 September 2018 09: 18
            +3
            Quote: Examenatornick
            Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

            Wow, what are you flaunting! Anathema, definitely!
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 10 September 2018 22: 14
              +2
              Quote: Vasyan1971
              Quote: Examenatornick
              Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

              Wow, what are you flaunting! Anathema, definitely!

              And from members of the forum with the Soviet flag ....
          2. sir_obs
            sir_obs 10 September 2018 11: 05
            +6
            then look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.


            They did not study well at school. According to the rules of spelling, it is written with a capital (capital) letter, as a proper name and no more, but not always.

            In the practice of writing over the past two decades, the requirement of the "Rules of Russian Spelling and Punctuation" of 1956 to lowercase many names associated with religion (such a rule in 1956 was due to ideological reasons) was overcome. Now the words God, Lord, Mother of God, etc., are recommended to be written with a capital letter. Moreover, the point is not in the religious position of the writer (it can be any), but in the fact that the words God, Lord, Mother of God, Allah, etc. are individual names, which are actually proper names.
            in all texts (religious and non-religious) it is recommended to write: God, if we mean a single supreme being in monotheistic religions. In the plural forms, as well as in the meaning of one of the many gods or in the figurative meaning, the word god is written with a lowercase: the gods of Olympus, the god Apollo, the god of war.
            C capital letters are recommended to write and adjectives formed from the word God: God, Divine. In the figurative meaning, only a lowercase letter is used: the divine taste, the grandmother of God’s dandelion.
            In stable combinations used in colloquial speech outside of a direct connection with religion, the word god (and also God) should be written only with a lowercase letter. Regardless of the religious position of the writer, it would be a mistake to write to God. Also, an uppercase letter is impossible in such a context: everything is not thanks to God for him
            1. jjj
              jjj 10 September 2018 11: 16
              +5
              When in vain is mentioned, as in this case, then we must write with a little one. With the title - in prayer or in conversion. In general, for God, our vanity and fuss is of no importance. He is integrity and immutability
        4. ver_
          ver_ 10 September 2018 11: 50
          -2
          ..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 10 September 2018 22: 16
            +4
            Quote: ver_
            ..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

            Speak the truth! Everywhere Jews alone ...
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 September 2018 22: 52
            -2
            Quote: ver_
            ..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

            laughing ... Karl Marx, the father of ideas, was also a Jew in childhood ...
      2. Observer2014
        Observer2014 10 September 2018 08: 20
        +9
        210ox (Dmitry.
        But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema?
        And now let’s look at how pious our president is. Here you will have to maneuver steeper. Here the interests of the Russian Orthodox Church will be implicated And this is not the stinky factories of Akhmetov and so on. And not real estate according to landones are different. There is a thousand-year-old layer. The monolith and the foundation of the Russian land will be at stake.
        1. raw174
          raw174 10 September 2018 08: 31
          +12
          Quote: Observer2014
          And now let’s look at how pious our president is.

          Things will not go beyond statements. In any case, I hope so ... There is no need to put religious affairs higher or on a par with state ones ...
        2. Vanek
          Vanek 10 September 2018 08: 36
          +6
          Quote: Observer2014
          will be at stake.


          Why will it be? Or maybe already?
        3. rruvim
          rruvim 10 September 2018 22: 41
          -1
          Absolutely agree. The defense of the Crimea in 1854-55 m (the reason) began because of the impossibility of Russian pilgrims to "fall" to the Holy Sepulcher. Now they are trying to deprive us of the canonical territory on the outskirts. There has never been a Patriarchate of Constantinople! And the task of the Brigadier is to prevent this "invasion". Faith and the Russian Orthodox Church is the last stronghold that unites us Russians with our Russian Outskirts of the people. This is the last connection. It is unacceptable to destroy it!
      3. raw174
        raw174 10 September 2018 08: 21
        +3
        Quote: 210ox
        Worldly authorities did not lift a finger when they burned people in Odessa.

        So their representatives burned, it was the companions of the authorities, what should they have done?
      4. dauria
        dauria 10 September 2018 08: 36
        +15
        What will the ROC do with the inevitable seizure of property?


        She will try to raise unrest among believers in Ukraine. Property is holy laughing Enough illusions. Any church that is not controlled by the government of a given country is an agent of the enemy's influence. If the Russian Orthodox Church had a control center in Washington or Kiev, would they tolerate it in Moscow? So they will be squeezed out on the sly, and after a couple of generations they will be replaced with their own "Orthodox" one. And do not look at the church as something special - it is just an office within the state, living according to its laws, nothing more. Either he helps the government and receives "benefits", or interferes and receives "persecution."
        1. tap
          tap 10 September 2018 09: 13
          +3
          It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.
          1. Vasyan1971
            Vasyan1971 10 September 2018 09: 29
            +17
            Quote: zapfen
            It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

            God and God's servants are often two big differences. God is a soul. The Church is an institution of power. Roughly like "servants of the people" and the people themselves.
            I think so...
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 September 2018 09: 40
            +6
            Quote: zapfen
            It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

            Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.
            1. raw174
              raw174 10 September 2018 10: 10
              +8
              Quote: Krasnodar
              faith and religion are two different things.

              Right! faith - the beliefs of man. Someone believes in money, someone in the power of power, someone in the power of arms, someone in the family, someone in justice, someone in a higher power, each has his own, and religion is a way to control the masses, propaganda, if you want .
              1. jjj
                jjj 10 September 2018 11: 20
                -2
                In fact, the only purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation.
                1. raw174
                  raw174 10 September 2018 13: 05
                  +8
                  Quote: jjj
                  the purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation

                  From whom or what will she point the way? But the church of the Kiev Patriarchate will not indicate? ..
                2. free
                  free 10 September 2018 20: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: jjj
                  In fact, the only purpose of the church is to point the way to salvation.

                  Well, what is this path to salvation?
                  1. jjj
                    jjj 11 September 2018 19: 56
                    0
                    Understand that you are sinful, that you yourself cannot cope with passions, repent of sins and ask the Lord for mercy
            2. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 10: 13
              -7
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

              No need to apologize for stupidity. "To whom the Church is not a mother, God is not a father" (Cyprian of Carthage).
              Would be a little "in the subject" would have refrained from such silly maxims.
              By the way, just as you reasoned with Luther and your supporters, you can judge where it led by the Protestant movement: somewhere the Sodomites are ordained bishops, somewhere they baptize the long dead, and some of these faiths generally thought of denying all Christian values .
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 10 September 2018 10: 40
                +2
                Quote: EwgenyZ
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

                No need to apologize for stupidity. "To whom the Church is not a mother, God is not a father" (Cyprian of Carthage).
                Would be a little "in the subject" would have refrained from such silly maxims.
                By the way, just as you reasoned with Luther and your supporters, you can judge where it led by the Protestant movement: somewhere the Sodomites are ordained bishops, somewhere they baptize the long dead, and some of these faiths generally thought of denying all Christian values .

                Take an interest in why Kuraev was removed from office, firstly, and the statement of Kiprian of Carthage is given by pharisaism in its purest form, and secondly. And who condemned Pharisaism, you, as an Orthodox Christian, should know.
                1. EwgenyZ
                  EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 41
                  -1
                  Kuraev said a lot of things, God is his judge.
                  What is the Pharisaism of Cyprian of Carthage? That He repeated the words of Jesus about the church?
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 10 September 2018 14: 14
                    -1
                    Quote: EwgenyZ
                    Kuraev said a lot of things, God is his judge.
                    What is the Pharisaism of Cyprian of Carthage? That He repeated the words of Jesus about the church?

                    Quote the words of Jesus, pliz. About the church in sources known to me (if the Jewish book is a congregation, the root word Beit and the Knesset is a synagogue, or the Knesset is a parliament) can generally be translated like this.
                    And I believe Kuraev - he is a decent person, silver-free and not a grabber.
                    1. EwgenyZ
                      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 16: 24
                      -1
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Quote the words of Jesus, pliz.

                      "and I say to you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; (Matthew 16:18)
                      "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20)
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 September 2018 16: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: EwgenyZ
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Quote the words of Jesus, pliz.

                        "and I say to you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; (Matthew 16:18)
                        "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20)

                        The first passage I know very well, Question, what is common between the words of Jesus about the church (or rather, the assembly based on faith) and the passage you quoted from Capriana of Carthage? Jesus says literally “and I tell you, you are Peter (in Greek, Peter is a rock, the real name of the apostle Shimon. Jesus called Shimon a rock because of unshakable faith.) And on this stone I (why I think you understand the stone) will create church (in the original Hebrew book), i.e. a meeting that the gates of hell will not prevail - i.e. our unshakable faith will not succumb to the temptations leading to hell.
                        Now let’s analyze “to whom the church (already a religious institute) is not a mother, Gd is not a father” - that is, if a religious institute is not nice to you, then you don’t believe in Gd. Pharisaism! Jesus taught to pray silently, to conduct a dialogue with the Supreme Mind in private, and not to do it for show, like the Pharisees. Conclusion - the creation of a religious institution in the name of Christ is completely contrary to his teaching. Sorry to hurt someone’s feelings.
            3. free
              free 10 September 2018 20: 56
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Quote: zapfen
              It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

              Wildly sorry, but faith and religion are two different things.

              good
              Faith condition, religion doctrine. Teaching giving faith can be different.
          3. raw174
            raw174 10 September 2018 10: 06
            +8
            Quote: zapfen
            It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

            But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god? smile wink
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 September 2018 10: 45
              -4
              Quote: raw174
              Quote: zapfen
              It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church.

              But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god? smile wink

              Atheism, in my personal conviction, is also a faith, and a strong one! Because to prove mathematically that such a complex thing as an eye lens, joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process - possible. With a probability of 1/1000000000000000 laughing
              1. ver_
                ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 02
                +5
                ... Duc it did not immediately create - hundreds of millions of years have passed ...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 September 2018 14: 15
                  -5
                  Quote: ver_
                  ... Duc it did not immediately create - hundreds of millions of years have passed ...

                  And all without reasonable control? laughing Great is your faith, ver_
              2. raw174
                raw174 10 September 2018 13: 34
                +4
                Quote: Krasnodar
                lens of the eye, fastening joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process

                If you take a little interest, then all these things are not so complicated, everything is described in detail, including the history of their appearance and rudimentation. Evolution however ...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 September 2018 14: 20
                  -3
                  Quote: raw174
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  lens of the eye, fastening joints, etc. arose due to the random coincidence of atoms, i.e. uncontrolled process

                  If you take a little interest, then all these things are not so complicated, everything is described in detail, including the history of their appearance and rudimentation. Evolution however ...

                  Well, modern science still has not understood the nature of the nervous system of fish and mammals, the lens of the human eye and the synchronization of the optic nerve with the brain cannot be repeated by a person, etc. etc. In short, I believe that the highest intelligent force that created the world and controls it exists. I call her Gd. Personally, I believe that Gd is one for all, and any religion is a means of power and business. I do not impose my opinion on anyone.
                  1. raw174
                    raw174 10 September 2018 14: 44
                    +4
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    I do not impose my opinion on anyone.

                    It is right! I always say that a person can believe that he is closer, can worship anyone or not, this is his personal until he begins to harm others, forcibly instill his convictions. In the case under discussion, the Russian Orthodox Church is trying to impart its views everywhere in Ukraine, but this is not true. They want to break away, but ensign in their hands!
            2. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 42
              +3
              Quote: raw174
              But didn’t they tell you at school that there is no god? smile wink

              We were also told at school that the "Unbreakable Union" ...
          4. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 11: 02
            +5
            Quote: zapfen
            It is interesting to see how the atheists talk about faith and the church. It’s not for nothing they say: keep silent - you will marry a smart one.

            Well, I'm godless, albeit baptized. What did you want to say?
      5. Barzha
        Barzha 10 September 2018 09: 30
        +10
        And about the church property and say no .. Although ... Maybe at least it will move them?
        Yes, I beg you! What, Russia will send troops to protect the Kiev Pechersk Lavra from being captured by schismatics?
      6. Overland whale
        Overland whale 10 September 2018 10: 25
        +2
        In Ukraine, only the ancient monasteries and large old cathedrals are owned by the church. All other religious buildings and structures (from rural churches and to large parish churches in cities) are the property of religious communities, which at their own expense acquire church utensils, carry out major repairs, maintenance and restoration, and also contain a priest, whom they send at the request of the community diocese. All the churches of Ukraine have such a structure - the UOC-MP, the UOC-KP, the UAOC, and the UGCC. So no "war for property" is possible in Ukraine. The only thing that is possible is a "war" for control over parishes. But here the community decides everything. If the majority of parishioners of this or that parish are in favor of taking care of the priest of the UOC-MP, then no Bandera members will be able to do anything about it. As the parishioners decide, so it will be.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 07
          +3
          Quote: Whale Land
          no Bandera can do anything about it. As parishioners decide, so be it.

          Unfortunately, according to the events in Odessa, we have already seen how "nothing can be done".
          "All the great questions of history are ultimately decided by force" (VI Lenin)
        2. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 45
          +3
          Quote: Keith Land
          But here everything is decided by the community.

          This was possible earlier, although not a fact. Remember how the Uniates drove the Orthodox out of churches. And now it will be decided by "Azov" and so on.
          1. Overland whale
            Overland whale 10 September 2018 12: 52
            +3
            This happened in the lands of the West. Ukraine, which before joining the USSR were Uniate, and after entering "voluntarily" returned to the fold of Orthodoxy))). Well, when Ukraine became independent, then the former Uniates decided to return to their native faith. That once again confirms the truth that "you will not be lovely by force." The personal and conscious choice of each person is important to God, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will. And to drive people to heaven with a stick is nothing to do with God.
            1. Svateev
              Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 32
              +2
              Quote: Whale Land
              It is important for God that each person’s own and informed choice, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will.

              So that "Hitlers" could arrange world wars ?!

              Why, under the godfather’s burden, is the right man all draining in blood?
              Why is everywhere dishonest met with honor and glory?
              Who is guilty? Or is not everything available to God on earth?
              Or is he playing with us? This is mean and criminal!
              (Heinrich Heine)
            2. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 14: 03
              -2
              Quote: Keith Land
              It is important for God that each person’s own and informed choice, it is for this purpose that He endowed us with free will.

              Who argues, only in modern Ukraine, unfortunately, now everything is decided by force ....
      7. Alber
        Alber 10 September 2018 14: 38
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?

        The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 September 2018 16: 51
          -2
          Quote: Alber
          Quote: 210ox
          Sergey, I support you .. But! What will the Russian Orthodox Church do with the inevitable seizure of property? Will it announce an anathema? The mundane authorities didn’t move a finger when they burned people in Odessa. And I don’t have to talk about church property .. Although ... Maybe even this will push them?

          The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate

          As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.
          1. Alber
            Alber 10 September 2018 20: 15
            +2
            Quote: Krasnodar
            The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate
            As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.

            ))) Well, the Krasnodar Jews know better where your international Zionist brethren launched their tentacles ...
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 September 2018 22: 57
              -2
              Quote: Alber
              Quote: Krasnodar
              The split of the Russian Orthodox Church is the work of the Anglo-Saxon and Zionofascist conglomerate
              As well as the Italian-Bolshevik and Semitic-Hamitic triumviates.

              ))) Well, the Krasnodar Jews know better where your international Zionist brethren launched their tentacles ...

              In the hair of the hydra of pan-Arabism, I suppose laughing At the same time undermining the collegiality and spirituality of the armadillo nation of Palestine, tormented by the Yids ... Amen.
      8. Serge Gorely
        Serge Gorely 11 September 2018 17: 32
        0
        Our priests are even cooler than EdRa ... Chatter and incompetence. I do not like maydaunov, but I have a question for fofudienos- why were you silent when the Georgian Orthodox Church became autocephalous? Where are the groans about the unity of Orthodoxy, a common history, fraternal peoples? Why did you put your tongue in one place when the Estonian Orthodox parishes under Constantinople left? When scared - we are silent, if it is profitable - we shout?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. raw174
      raw174 10 September 2018 08: 19
      +8
      Quote: Observer2014
      with what decisiveness does the Russian Orthodox Church operate !!!!

      How do they work? What besides statements? Waving censer more active? Religion is a world of fantasies, you can speak as much as you like, it isn’t for the language.
      1. For example
        For example 10 September 2018 08: 24
        -5
        Quote: raw174
        Religion is a world of fantasies, you can speak as much as you like, it isn’t for the language.

        You are mistaken.
        Criminal Code Article 148. Violation of the right to freedom of conscience and religion.
        1. Public actions expressing a clear disrespect for society and committed in order to insult the religious feelings of believers, -
        shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to three hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wages or other income for a period of up to two years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two hundred and forty hours, or forced labor for a term of up to one year, or imprisonment for the same term.

        So that, Ravil, everything is in your hands. Go ahead. Verbiage is not doing well.
        1. raw174
          raw174 10 September 2018 08: 28
          +10
          Quote: For example
          You are mistaken.

          UK I know pretty well. By your logic, if we are talking about the non-recognition of the Kiev Patriarchate (or whatever they have), we do not comply with our own law! Let them even believe in a stool, it's their own business! And without recognizing and publicly stating that their church is wrong, we do not insult their feelings?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 10 September 2018 09: 49
            -6
            Quote: raw174
            And without recognizing and publicly stating that their church is wrong, we do not insult their feelings?

            So after all their church and does not exist walk in their "temples" is like going to the restroom them there is grace.
            1. raw174
              raw174 10 September 2018 09: 53
              +8
              Quote: bober1982
              their churches do not exist

              Because we say that? After all, people came up with a god (all gods) ...
              Quote: bober1982
              going to their "temples" is like going to

              any temple of any religion ...
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 10 September 2018 10: 03
                0
                So after all, God gave freedom of choice, by the way, any believing person is truly a free person.
                1. raw174
                  raw174 10 September 2018 10: 12
                  +5
                  Quote: bober1982
                  So God has given freedom of choice

                  Fine, then why bother with these separation concerns? Let them separate to health!
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 10 September 2018 10: 23
                    +1
                    Quote: raw174
                    Fine

                    Really, great.
                    This is called not separation, but the intervention of hostile forces (including special services)
                    1. raw174
                      raw174 10 September 2018 13: 13
                      +5
                      Quote: bober1982
                      This is called not separation, but the intervention of hostile forces (including special services)

                      Well, but I’ll say that an attempt to gather all those who want and do not want under one bosses is the desire to increase the flock and material capital, as well as strengthen their influence. If people decide that they don’t want to depend on the Moscow Patriarchate, let them determine themselves. But we let the Crimeans decide, let the believers decide what to rage about? ..
                      1. bober1982
                        bober1982 10 September 2018 13: 21
                        0
                        Quote: raw174
                        let the believers decide what to rage about? ..

                        The Vatican and the CIA have determined who and how to determine.
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 11: 09
                  +6
                  Quote: bober1982
                  By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                  Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.
                  1. EwgenyZ
                    EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 49
                    0
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Quote: bober1982
                    By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                    Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

                    We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 12: 00
                      +6
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                      Debatable. What is he sending there? Explain if you can.
                      1. EwgenyZ
                        EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: EwgenyZ
                        But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                        Debatable. What is he sending there? Explain if you can.

                        Well, at least trials ... That's how this split.
                    2. Leshy1975
                      Leshy1975 10 September 2018 12: 50
                      +6
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Quote: bober1982
                      By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                      Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

                      We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                      I didn’t want to interfere, but I catch you by the tongue. (I reject the bias towards Orthodoxy right away, I myself am baptized). Therefore, the questions are as follows:
                      1) Who exactly sent such gifts (did God send?) Or did the patriarch himself acquire?
                      2) Are such things useful and how exactly in matters of service to God, or vice versa, destroy faith in the church?
                      3) Why does the patriarch not refuse them or should he be considered not enough believers?

                      “Answering the question that“ His Holiness the Patriarch allegedly wears a very expensive watch, he allegedly has an expensive car fleet, a residence, ”the priest noted:“ When certain gifts are made, it is natural: people want their hierarchs to look no worse than representatives secular authorities, so that the temples look no worse than the residences of secular rulers ... ".

                      Recall, the fleet of Patriarch Kirill includes several Cadillac Escalade, Toyota Land Cruiser, Mercedes S-Class, including an armored modification.

                      Note that the question of expensive watches and cars of priests did not arise by chance. In 2009, the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, who was on a visit to the Donbass, told miners about crisis, money-grubbers, spiritual values ​​and destructive liberalism leading to hellwhile a brand watch flaunted on his hand Breguet worth up to 36 thousand euros... Read more here: https://ru.tsn.ua/svit/russkaya-cerkov-obyasnila-zachem-kirillu-dorogie-chasy-i-avtopark.html "
                      1. EwgenyZ
                        EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        Quote: EwgenyZ
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: bober1982
                        By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                        Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

                        We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                        I didn’t want to interfere, but I catch you by the tongue. (I reject the bias towards Orthodoxy right away, I myself am baptized). Therefore, the questions are as follows:
                        1) Who exactly sent such gifts (did God send?) Or did the patriarch himself acquire?
                        2) Are such things useful and how exactly in matters of service to God, or vice versa, destroy faith in the church?
                        3) Why does the patriarch not refuse them or should he be considered not enough believers?

                        “Answering the question that“ His Holiness the Patriarch allegedly wears a very expensive watch, he allegedly has an expensive car fleet, a residence, ”the priest noted:“ When certain gifts are made, it is natural: people want their hierarchs to look no worse than representatives secular authorities, so that the temples look no worse than the residences of secular rulers ... ".

                        Recall, the fleet of Patriarch Kirill includes several Cadillac Escalade, Toyota Land Cruiser, Mercedes S-Class, including an armored modification.

                        Note that the question of expensive watches and cars of priests did not arise by chance. In 2009, the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, who was on a visit to the Donbass, told miners about crisis, money-grubbers, spiritual values ​​and destructive liberalism leading to hellwhile a brand watch flaunted on his hand Breguet worth up to 36 thousand euros... Read more here: https://ru.tsn.ua/svit/russkaya-cerkov-obyasnila-zachem-kirillu-dorogie-chasy-i-avtopark.html "

                        It is not for us to judge the patriarch. He must answer before God. And such things (including expensive watches, and a fleet of luxury cars) are sent us to check the fortress our faith.
                        There was a case: one boy asked how to trust the priests now? And it was like this: He found in the forest one "priest" when that "lane" of a peasant in the ass. How is it? There is only one answer: everyone has their own trials - that priest has to resist the sin of Sodom, the guy has to see the mentor behind the sin, and not lose faith ...
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 10 September 2018 16: 55
                      -2
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Quote: bober1982
                      By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                      Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

                      We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                      And according to the religion of my ancestors (I believe in Gd, and not in religion), money is sent to a person for good deeds, in a sign that this person is worthy of them. But if people spend them on themselves, and not on charity, then the Lord will deprive them of them.
                      1. free
                        free 10 September 2018 21: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Quote: EwgenyZ
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: bober1982
                        By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                        Op la. Here I do not agree in the bud. The believer depends on his gods.

                        We are all dependent on Someone or something. But only a believer can refuse useless things, content with what God has sent.

                        And according to the religion of my ancestors (I believe in Gd, not in religion), money is sent to a person for good deeds, as a sign that this person is worthy of them. But if people spend them on themselves, and not on charity, then the Lord will deprive them of them..

                        That is, God does not know in advance how you will spend the money? Randomly sends out?
                3. Svateev
                  Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 12
                  +8
                  Quote: bober1982
                  By the way, any believer is truly a free person.

                  And don’t talk. So free is just awful! He believes in something that no one has ever seen and does not notice the obvious. Freedom from reality ...
                  1. Examenatornick
                    Examenatornick 10 September 2018 11: 35
                    +5
                    freedom from the ability to perform thought processes is called.
        2. free
          free 10 September 2018 21: 04
          0
          But what about insulting the feelings of unbelievers? Or is it already forbidden not to believe?
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 10: 20
        -1
        Quote: raw174
        Religion is a fantasy world ..

        Yeah, this "fantasy world" is the basis of our state, and all moral and ethical standards.
        1. raw174
          raw174 10 September 2018 10: 29
          +8
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Quote: raw174
          Religion is a fantasy world ..

          Yeah, this "fantasy world" is the basis of our state, and all moral and ethical standards.

          The basis of our state is the experience of generations, both the religious period (pre-revolutionary) and secular (post-revolutionary).
          1. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 51
            -2
            Quote: raw174
            The basis of our state is the experience of generations

            Yes, yes! Tokmo add: based on religious tenets.
            1. raw174
              raw174 10 September 2018 13: 17
              +5
              Quote: EwgenyZ
              based on religious tenets.

              and they, in turn, are based on the experience of generations, the pre-religious period.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 10 September 2018 16: 56
                -1
                Quote: raw174
                Quote: EwgenyZ
                based on religious tenets.

                and they, in turn, are based on the experience of generations, the pre-religious period.

                In the Old Testament laughing
      3. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 09
        +2
        Quote: raw174
        Religion is a fantasy world

        It is because of fantasies that religious wars are staged, burned at bonfires, etc.
        Fantasy (belief) is a very material force.
        1. raw174
          raw174 10 September 2018 13: 18
          +5
          Quote: Svateev
          Fantasy (belief) is a very material force.

          I do not argue. In one of the posts I said that religion is a powerful propaganda machine.
    4. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 10 September 2018 08: 33
      +5
      Quote: Observer2014
      It is striking against the background of worldly problems with which decisiveness the ROC acts !!!!
      That's for sure, I remind you that Patriarch Kirill was perhaps the first to congratulate Poroshenko on his election victory!
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 10 September 2018 08: 45
        +5
        Stirbjorn (Michael)
        That's for sure, I remind you that Patriarch Kirill was perhaps the first to congratulate Poroshenko on his election victory!
        And now this is nonsense with the chance to change your mind and the other crap of our authorities sideways comes out year after year. You think the congratulation was not agreed in the Kremlin. Yeah, right now. It was necessary to think earlier.
        1. rruvim
          rruvim 10 September 2018 22: 52
          0
          Of course it was agreed. I think even now, first of all, His Holiness "ran" to the Kremlin for advice on what to do further along the Outskirts ... Nothing can be decided without the Brigadier. This is the trouble. The Russian Orthodox Church can solve the problem even without the advice of the secular government, this is the essence of Sobornost. But the administration of the Russian Orthodox Church does not want, coordinating all actions with the Power. Maybe for now.
    5. nickname7
      nickname7 10 September 2018 08: 54
      +5
      The Russian Federation is defending, it has no strategy, no geopolitics, unlike the west, but it’s impossible to defeat defense, it can only be postponed. It was necessary to take power in the year 14, plant his puppets in Kiev. Since almost nothing has been done, alas, shaking his fists and deeply worrying about the matter will not help. From Ukraine, one way or another, they will make a Russophobic sanitary cordon, you need to put up with this.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 10 September 2018 09: 06
        +9
        Quote: nickname7
        It was necessary to take power in the year 14, plant his puppets in Kiev.

        I agree that all the support of the junta that came to power at that time - just a few thousand street militants - the MTR brigade would be enough to disperse this circus in a day. The Ukrainian army and internal troops at that time did not know whom to obey
        1. raw174
          raw174 10 September 2018 10: 02
          +3
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          MTR brigades would be enough

          They would have shot the Maidan? What are you talking about? The Ukrainian authorities (Domaidan) looked west in their mouths, would they not accept Russia's help for anything, or do you think that you had to attack Ukraine? It is in the SAR that we are invited and entitled, and there we are officially and fairly - AGGRESSORS! Yes, if our military enters in quantity
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          MTR teams

          they would have been dared and ALL Ukraine would have taken up arms against us, including LDNR.
          Whether we like it or not, the people of Ukraine supported this power in the elections, Poroshenko won, the question is removed. All snot about the coup and illegitimacy, leave it to yourself, the coveted power lost its position without a fight, which means at will or for money.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 10 September 2018 13: 09
            0
            Quote: raw174
            The Ukrainian authorities (Domaidan) looked west in their mouths, would they not accept Russia's help for anything, or do you think that you had to attack Ukraine?
            What kind of power is this? Yanukovych, who almost banged ?! During his life, he would have accepted any help, including military assistance, especially if he had been offered to return back. By the way, 3 billion, they took for a sweet soul, still do not want to return the truth. Maidan would just run away
            Quote: raw174
            It is in the SAR that we are invited and entitled, and there we are officially and fairly - AGGRESSORS!
            Yes, of course, the Yemeni president invited the Saudis and the UAE, no one considers the latter to be aggressors. At that time, Yanukovych was the official president, and the junta seized power in Kiev, which was not recognized by anyone at that time
            Quote: raw174
            they would have been dared and ALL Ukraine would have taken up arms against us, including LDNR.

            In Crimea, there were more than 20 thousand APUs, not counting the units of the SBU, for which they did not take up arms
            Quote: raw174
            Whether we like it or not, the people of Ukraine supported this power in the elections, Poroshenko won, the question is removed.

            Yeah, in Kharkov, in Donetsk, Odessa it was seen how they were supported
            Quote: raw174
            All snot about the coup and illegitimacy, leave it to yourself, the coveted power lost its position without a fight, which means at will or for money.

            So like you, snot and dissolve, justifying the inaction of our authorities. You just had to clean up the scumbags while they were rampaging around Kiev. The vast majority of the population of Ukraine would only say thank you, and the rest would plump in the corners and calm down later
            1. raw174
              raw174 10 September 2018 14: 59
              +1
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              For his life he would take any help

              Assad thought and asked Russia for military assistance, and Yanukovych hoped until the very end for the reliability of the West, for his patronage, because he was always a pro-Western politician.
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              In Crimea, there were more than 20 thousand APUs, not counting the units of the SBU, for which they did not take up arms

              Crimea was not Ukraine, in terms of the beliefs of the population. I served there, talked with people, plus a powerful Russian presence, in the form of a Navy base (where I served). Crimeans always considered themselves Russian, including the military.
              Part of the military (visitors, sent) of course would have resisted and organized a rebuff, but did not have time, thanks to the lightning-fast and well-coordinated work of our Armed Forces and "social activists"
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Yeah, in Kharkov, in Donetsk, Odessa it was seen how they were supported

              This is not the majority. Most supported. Those who did not support the Maidan simply could not organize and drive out the rally, because they were not the majority from the country.
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              justifying the inaction of our authorities.

              I don’t understand your logic, why do we need it? Yes, even let go on their heads! We have a certain interest in LDNR, it is necessary that they have autonomy within Ukraine, that there is a pro-Russian buffer from hostile elements, which is why we support them, and attacking a foreign country for no reason is at least stupid. How will we differ from Germany in 1939?
        2. Barzha
          Barzha 10 September 2018 10: 31
          +3
          MTR brigades would be enough to disperse this circus in a day.

          MTRs are not designed for such actions. And they would not have coped with this task. They have completely different tasks. And the "dispersal of the circus" is carried out by the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, trained and trained for this.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 10 September 2018 13: 12
            +1
            Quote: Barzha
            MTRs are not designed for such actions. And they would not have coped with this task. They have completely different tasks. And the "dispersal of the circus" is carried out by the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, trained and trained for this.

            The assault on Amin's palace, let me remind you. And the "circus" would have dispersed itself when the top was beheaded
            1. Barzha
              Barzha 11 September 2018 12: 10
              +1
              Storming the palace of Amin, I recall.

              Oh! The feeling that you are absolutely not in the subject, what they are doing and what tasks are performed by the MTR. Let me explain, for those who believe that "the special forces of the GRU General Staff can do everything!" These units perform the following tasks: reconnaissance and sabotage, subversive, counter-terrorist, counter-sabotage, counter-intelligence, partisan, anti-partisan and other actions. The main job of these guys is covert actions behind enemy lines! An ideal job for them, if you weren't found at all. They "do not know how" to attack, storm and hold objects (by the way, about Amin's palace), etc. This is the task of assault units such as "Alpha" and the like. And these guys, if you like, are modern ninjas! Only not those cinematic ones that Hollywood draws, but real ones.
    6. Barzha
      Barzha 10 September 2018 09: 34
      +8
      Bartholomew decided to try on the “clothes” of the so-called “Eastern Pope”.

      This "Eastern Pope", although he is called "Ecumenical", has practically no authority in the Orthodox world. And now he can drop it altogether below the baseboard. If he does what he says he risks becoming "the patriarch of all schismatics."
    7. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 10 September 2018 13: 16
      +3
      Quote: Observer2014
      Call it what you want

      What is there to call?
      Are there many true parishioners among us who regularly attend church during worship and observe religious fasts? Such units per thousand, if not less. In the mid-30 of the last century, half of the citizens of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus did not hide their membership in the Orthodox Church during the census.
      And today, what are true believers? What are the true Cossacks? Continuous window dressing and mummers.
      Religion has become an appendage to public policy. Both in Greece, so in Russia, and in Banderostan. The current now on the icons of the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate will be Petliura with Bandera, and who is portrayed in the paintings of fiery hell is easy to guess.
      In the modern mercantile world, where the process of radicalization of nationalism is directly related to the survival of the country in the form that the worldly authorities preach, religion becomes an appendage in the form of a modern virtual icon.
      1. raw174
        raw174 10 September 2018 15: 01
        +4
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Religion has become an appendage to public policy.

        It has always been that way. Religion was created to control the masses and the implementation of state. politicians.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 10 September 2018 15: 30
          0
          Quote: raw174
          It always has been.

          That was not always ....
          As an example - the coming of the Romanov dynasty to power at the beginning of the XXVII century, when it was the father of Misha Romanov who contributed to the fact that never seriously considered as a contender for the throne, he was “planted” on it.
          The first attempt to establish control of power on the Church was made by Peter the Great, who carried out church reform, essentially taking control.
          In our time, the Church also had a definite influence on the minds of parishioners. During the Great Patriotic War, the Russian Orthodox Church called for a fight against the invaders.
          In the "pre-Internet era" it was the proclamations from the porch that influenced the minds of the common people.

          Today, when everyone can form an opinion on what is happening, the influence of the Church has fallen to its minimum limits. Even such ardent, until recently, Catholic countries such as Spain and Poland, listen more to the leaders of the movements, and not to the bishops, or the Pope as a whole.
          1. raw174
            raw174 10 September 2018 19: 36
            +2
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            authorities at the beginning of the XXVII century,

            Back to the Future! wassat
            Do not convince. The church always clings to power, sometimes struggles with secular ones, but always for power and influence. The fact that during the war they called on the people to rise - naturally, the war was then a general one! Now Putin is quite skillfully communicating with religious leaders, leading everywhere with himself, thereby reinforcing his authority, because the flock listens to the pastor and obeys him, if the pastor said that the ruler is charitable, then that’s how it is.
    8. Prjanik
      Prjanik 10 September 2018 16: 21
      0
      The dogs were completely furious, Russia, like a bone in their throat, is crushing in politics and economics, which we are used to, then took up sports, and now we get to religion. When they are under water, like Atlantis, will leave. am
      1. raw174
        raw174 11 September 2018 06: 25
        +2
        Quote: Prjanik
        When they are under water, like Atlantis, will leave.

        When Zhirinovsky gives a command to scientists and:
        At night, our scientists will slightly change the gravitational field of the Earth, and your country (USA) will be under water.
        V.V. Zhirinovsky.
    9. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 11 September 2018 13: 23
      0
      Quote: Observer2014

      The victory of Western intelligence services: the Grand split in the Orthodox world

      This is not a victory for the Western special services, it is the defeat of Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, since Bartholomew made such a decision right after meeting him.
  2. Logall
    Logall 10 September 2018 08: 08
    +12
    In Constantinople there is no God (in the heads of the priests) ... His LONG-LONG "Pope" SOLD! After that, the Turks took Constantinople ... And Constantinople has long since disappeared! Words alone, bargaining and speculation ...
    "Orthodox Faith" for 30 Serebrennikov: times; two; three - sold ...
    1. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 10 September 2018 08: 29
      +1
      Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.
      I don’t know who said it for the first time.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 10 September 2018 08: 40
        -1
        Quote: Ecilop
        Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.

        A curious proposition, apparently such an interpretation can be - as soon as the ribs break, then you will think about something divine, or at least think about the transience of being.
      2. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 10 September 2018 09: 41
        +3
        Quote: Ecilop
        Vera, she is not made of stone, she is made of ribs.
        I don’t know who said it for the first time.

        There, sort of, it was about the church. Like, faith in the heart should be and there is nothing for churchmen to feed, to sacrifice land and values ​​to them. Of course, this is not forgiven. And with firewood then it was easier and mores more simple. The Inquisition, then, this ... Of course, to the great glory of the Lord!
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 10 September 2018 09: 59
          +2
          Quote: Vasyan1971
          Like, faith in the heart should be and there is nothing for churchmen to feed, to sacrifice land and values ​​to them.

          Incidentally, about faith in the heart and nothing to feed................., this is a favorite topic of abstruse intelligentsia who like to talk about this topic. A good and pleasant thing is to slap a couple of glasses of cognac (vodka), have a bite and talk about how God loves everyone, instead of decisively fighting his evil and vile habits.
          1. ver_
            ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 11
            +1
            ... so, before the Church fought - monasteries - fortresses and armory, monks - warriors ...
    2. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 10: 24
      +3
      Quote: Logall
      There is no god in Constantinople (in the heads of priests) ...

      Bartholomew does not know the history of the Church well. It would not hurt him to recall how the Ferraro-Florentine Cathedral ended for the Ecumenical Patriarchs.
      But there is God in the Church or He does not depend on the patriarchs, but on the priests and their flocks.
      This is where God definitely does not exist in the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate." And, after all, Filaret, he could have become the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, God saved!
    3. Barzha
      Barzha 10 September 2018 12: 42
      +2
      Primates and higher hierarchs of 11 out of 15 Orthodox churches have already come out in support of the ROC and condemned the schism into which the "ecumenical" church and Denisenko are plunging.
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 September 2018 08: 12
    +8
    The trouble will be ... Serious fight over the church inheritance in Ukraine, and Bandera in the forefront. At the same time, Poroshenko, having "untwisted" it, will step aside, because the state "does not interfere" in church affairs ... And, according to the inferno law, in this case the worst scenario is realized ... alas ...
  4. gla172
    gla172 10 September 2018 08: 18
    -6
    "" "" "" Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers "" "" "

    ... Horror, there are so many people lost to society! ......

    ....... The forced baptism of Eastern European Russia turned into a 200-year-old civil fratricidal massacre (its analogue is the civil war as a result of the religious reforms of Nikon in 1666) with the participation of the armed forces of Byzantium and Western Europe on the side of the baptists. These events "historians" slyly call "princely civil strife in Ancient Rus". As a result of "voluntary" baptism, the population of this "Ancient Rus" decreased from 12 to 5 million people, and according to some sources - to 3 million people .......
    ....... When it became clear that a complete ethnic catastrophe could not be avoided, in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to turn for help to the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East, who were still living there at that time. And they, dressed in the then Siberian "fashion" and well armed, came to the aid of their brothers. Russians, not fooled by Christianization, of course, greeted them with delight ...
    ......... But the fooled ones, who became Ivanes-not-remembering kinship, sowing in cities (for example, in Kiev, Kozelsk, etc.), showed fierce resistance. From this it is clear why Kiev, from which the infection of false Christianity began to spread in Russia, suffered the most. Christianizers, cleverly posing as "Byzantine Greeks", were forced to hide for a while .......
    .
    1. solzh
      solzh 10 September 2018 08: 35
      +13
      Quote: gla172
      in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to ask for help from the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East

      It is necessary to write such heresy !!! It may be enough to rewrite the history of lies to scientists.
      1. just exp
        just exp 10 September 2018 08: 54
        -5
        but why did you decide that your textbooks were correct, and not his?
        in general, how many excavations were in the battlefields of those times, and for which not a single Mongoloid skull was found. all Caucasians.
        and in Siberia all the names are Indo-European
        for example (the picture turned black, white in the original article, read it too
        https://history.wikireading.ru/308650)


        and according to mythology (and there are recorded opinions of eyewitnesses, that is, those people who lived at that time) in Siberia there was a kingdom of white people, for example, mummies (Tarim) were found in northern China. do you think they belong to the Chinese or Caucasians?

        1. solzh
          solzh 10 September 2018 09: 06
          +8
          Quote: just explo
          why did you decide that your textbooks were correct, and not his?

          From the fact that the textbooks that I studied, as well as books that I read, for example, the same books by academician Rybakov and his students, were written by the Scientific representatives of Science, and not by science fiction writers.
          Quote: just explo
          in general, how many excavations were in the battlefields of those times, and for which not a single Mongoloid skull was found. all Caucasians.

          How many excavations were there, where and what? This is the first. Second, and among the Mongols in the army, only people with Mongolian features served?
          Quote: just explo
          in Siberia all the names are Indo-European
          For example

          When, at what time, did these geographical features get their name?
          Quote: just explo
          and mythology (and there are recorded opinions of eyewitnesses, that is, those people who lived in those days)

          What are the eyewitnesses?
          1. just exp
            just exp 10 September 2018 09: 17
            -1
            Rybakov generally studied the late pagan stratum.
            but for example if you read the book of Sokol-Kutyloskiy "set of runic inscriptions"
            there are photographs of brekteats (Scandinavian) and you can read what they mean (yes, futark it turns out Slavic writing), there are also excavations of the same Arkaim and Tarim, there are r1a everywhere,
            Excavations of wars with the Tatar-Mongols were conducted at many cities that took the Tatar-Mongols. and yes, there doesn’t have to be all Mongols, but at least someone should be there.
            otherwise, what kind of Tatar-Mongols are there among whom there are no Mongols? and there is a version (did not check) that the Polovtsy were Caucasians.
            geographical objects got their name long ago, back in the days of Indo-European unity. that is why the same Tajiks can translate the name of the Ob River (where I live).
            and the vast majority of names are of Indo-European origin.
            and I repeat - look at the Tarim mummies. what there and when did the Caucasians do?
            (Threat eyewitnesses, these are those who wrote sacred texts and tales, I write at least about the same Avesta)
          2. Barzha
            Barzha 10 September 2018 14: 54
            +1
            Oh! Less would be the guys need to watch Ren-TV ... laughing
            Of course, the history of Russia was greatly curtailed. First at the time of Peter I, and finally chopped off at the time of Catherine II. After it was completely rewritten by the "Russian" historians Miller, Bayer and Schlötser, it turned out that Russia had virtually no history before Rurik. What is known there? Novgorod veche, yes "our lands are vast, but there is little order in them. Come, rule us!" That's all. But nothing else is known for certain. Everything else is just not confirmed speculation. But the fact that September 22 comes the year 7527 "from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple", says that the history of Russia began long before 862, when the Vikings of Rurik came to Russia. And the Creation of the World is the conclusion of a peace treaty at the end of some very terrible war. And this event is so significant that our ancestors began to calculate time from it. But what it was, and what happened after that, it seems that only Ren-TV presenters know, tk. no documentary sources have survived. And everything else is just circumstantial evidence that can be considered and interpreted as you like.
            1. just exp
              just exp 10 September 2018 18: 57
              -2
              read the Avesta and the Indian Vedas. Well, Mahabharata. also have something to think about.
              it describes what happened before the great war and what happened after.
              1. Barzha
                Barzha 11 September 2018 16: 20
                0
                read the Avesta and the Indian Vedas. Well, Mahabharata. also have something to think about.
                it describes what happened before the great war and what after

                Did you read them in the original? I doubt it. Most likely this is some 1001st "author's translation". Have you never taken part in business training? Especially in management. Often, coaches arrange such a game - all participants are asked to leave the room, and one, the rest, is told a story. He retells it to the second, the second to the third, etc. So, even for a strong, "trained" team, by the age of 12-15 a participant from the initial history, little remains. And by the 20th retelling, its essence is generally lost. It completely ceases to be like the original source. What can we say about the fact that it is rewritten even 100 times!
                1. just exp
                  just exp 12 September 2018 22: 16
                  0
                  I know about that training (psychologist by education) (he still has a different look, there about monkeys and a banana).
                  only here is a little wrong.
                  these sources have analogues of other nations and no one bothers to compare them.
                  moreover, the main theme remains language.
                  read how an Indian (Prasada Shastri) came to the Moscow region with a translator and then abandoned him.
                  there are ornaments, there is toponymy that does not change (I'm talking about the same river names for example).
                  there would be a desire. and it’s easier to start denying everything stupidly if this is new to you.
        2. ver_
          ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 19
          -5
          ... Mongolia was founded in 1920 by Ulyanov = Blanca - he * bit off * a piece of China and named it Mongolia-Baron Ungern actively participated in this * event * ..
      2. gla172
        gla172 24 September 2018 13: 55
        0
        ... and comrades like miller and co ... are scientists ??? ....
    2. Vanek
      Vanek 10 September 2018 08: 42
      0
      Quote: gla172
      Horror, this is so many people lost to society! ....


      Do you have a cross on your chest?
      1. solzh
        solzh 10 September 2018 08: 53
        +2
        Where do such people get a cross or some other creed on their chest? They read and consider the thoughts of such false historians correct, and most importantly they consider them to be scientists !!!, such as: Chudinov, Levashov, Grinevich, Hinevich, Trekhlebov. So, they have no, absolutely no faith!
        1. just exp
          just exp 10 September 2018 09: 20
          -3
          to the fact that you have listed these are CIA mattress agents.
          that is exactly what Hitler fostered. it was originally sponsored by mattresses, and the ideology was made by the Saxons (Golden Dawn) who made the Germanic Order, Thule and the Vril Society, which was the skeleton of the whole ideology.
          Levashov grazed with the Rockefellers in general.
          but how he refused to cooperate with them, here he died.
          If you want adequate sources, look at authors such as Zharnikova and Sidorov.
          well, and more of the ancient texts themselves (both Edda, Veda (Indian), Avesta, the latter in terms of action, that is, stories are easier to read in Shahnam)
      2. just exp
        just exp 10 September 2018 09: 01
        -1
        I have, I am baptized, on Saturday consecrated the hut, go to church and so on.
        but I also know that the Christianity that Vladimir brought and baptized Russia, and that Orthodoxy that we have, is different religions and the Christianity of Vladimir did not come from Constantinople, but from the Vatican and this is an openly anti-Russian project (read how Perm was baptized and why the city of Cherdyn such a name). that is, they had the goal of destroying the Vedic civilization, and only time remade that Christianity into ours that we have now.
        and in fact, our Christianity has absorbed the ancient teachings, which is why we have the cult of the Virgin and the holidays coincide in date with the ancients and we pray in front of the icons and many many other factors.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 24
          +1
          Quote: solzh
          they have no, absolutely no faith!

          Quote: just explo
          I have, I am baptized ... but I also know that the Christianity that Vladimir brought and baptized Russia, and that Orthodoxy that we have is different religions

          Here they are - "truly free" believers. Even here, they peresobachi because of how many fingers you need to cross ...
          1. just exp
            just exp 10 September 2018 12: 05
            0
            I don’t dog at the expense of fingers, although instinctively I am baptized by two, but in the church by three, for it is customary.
            even a statue is prayed to me (Catholics) or icons.
            God is in my soul for me, but the church is also necessary (there is a cleansing effect from it, a fact verified by myself).
            and the main evaluation criterion is the mode of distribution. here, alas, Christianity and Islam cannot please anything good, for they are planted with fire and a sword.
            1. Svateev
              Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 46
              +1
              Quote: just explo
              God is for me in my soul

              If you judge yourself in your soul - whether it’s good, whether you did something right - then you are an atheist. And if you expect an assessment of your deeds from the icon - then ... True, if you look, not a single icon has said anything to anyone. The believer also forgives his own sins. It’s very convenient: I grabbed a billionaire, put a candle, repented ... He himself decided that he was forgiven. And so calm in my soul ...
              1. just exp
                just exp 10 September 2018 13: 22
                -1
                what is good and what is not has long been described. and you can put at least a hundred candles, but if it’s accepted that it’s bad to grab a lardik by thieves or some other criminal way, then it will be bad. but to oneself an excuse to look for it, you already have a small conscience.
                I know so many. no matter what they do, they will always find an excuse.
                only for God it does not roll. and you cannot atone for sin without a candle without repentance, but with repentance and without a candle you can expect forgiveness.
                1. Svateev
                  Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: just explo
                  only for God it doesn't roll

                  But for some reason, God not only does not punish this, but does not even show it in any way.
                  1. just exp
                    just exp 10 September 2018 14: 46
                    -1
                    if you don’t know something, this does not mean that it doesn’t.
                    1. Svateev
                      Svateev 13 September 2018 18: 38
                      0
                      Quote: just explo
                      if you don’t know something, this does not mean that it doesn’t.

                      Do you offer to believe? What I don’t know ?!
                      I'm still friends with my head!
      3. ver_
        ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 22
        -3
        .. why do we need * a stranglehold * on the neck ..
    3. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 10: 30
      +2
      Quote: gla172
      "" "" "" Today in Orthodoxy there are about 300 million believers "" "" "

      ... Horror, there are so many people lost to society! ......

      ....... The forced baptism of Eastern European Russia turned into a 200-year-old civil fratricidal massacre (its analogue is the civil war as a result of the religious reforms of Nikon in 1666) with the participation of the armed forces of Byzantium and Western Europe on the side of the baptists. These events "historians" slyly call "princely civil strife in Ancient Rus". As a result of "voluntary" baptism, the population of this "Ancient Rus" decreased from 12 to 5 million people, and according to some sources - to 3 million people .......
      ....... When it became clear that a complete ethnic catastrophe could not be avoided, in the 1230s. at some princely council, it was decided to turn for help to the Tatar-Mongols, that is, the Rus of Siberia and the Far East, who were still living there at that time. And they, dressed in the then Siberian "fashion" and well armed, came to the aid of their brothers. Russians, not fooled by Christianization, of course, greeted them with delight ...
      ......... But the fooled ones, who became Ivanes-not-remembering kinship, sowing in cities (for example, in Kiev, Kozelsk, etc.), showed fierce resistance. From this it is clear why Kiev, from which the infection of false Christianity began to spread in Russia, suffered the most. Christianizers, cleverly posing as "Byzantine Greeks", were forced to hide for a while .......
      .

      Given all this nonsense, you are definitely lost to all of humanity, and it seems that for a long time.
      1. just exp
        just exp 10 September 2018 12: 05
        -3
        what if he’s right, what can I write about you?
  5. Skarpzd
    Skarpzd 10 September 2018 08: 19
    +7
    [quote = Get serious a fight for the church inheritance in Ukraine,. [/ quote]
    key. faith is faith, and the church is primarily power and money. not frail money. that's for them that will be a "scuffle".
    1. just exp
      just exp 10 September 2018 09: 02
      0
      it also affects hundreds of millions of people.
      and it’s more expensive than money.
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 10 September 2018 08: 24
    +7
    Bartholomew decides to send his representatives (exarchs) from the USA and Canada to Kiev
    He knows whom to direct so that the split really takes place. He took an interest in his biography - Greek by nationality, was an officer in the Turkish army (already a betrayal), hobnobed with the Catholic Church, etc. It is amazing how he advanced in the church hierarchy to such heights.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 28
      +2
      Quote: rotmistr60
      It is amazing how he advanced in the church hierarchy to such heights.

      So he lives in Turkey. Like the entire Patriarchate of Constantinople, it is under the hood of intelligence services of Turkey and other NATO countries.
      Or do you think that these priests were really given freedom of action? !!
  7. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 10 September 2018 08: 24
    -1
    My mnu son came from Lugansk. It so happened, met a girl hohlushkoy. I drove to Lugansk, on my vacation with her, met her relatives. All this was at the end of August 2018. Who believes that I will believe the stories of rtr24 against what my son told me?
    1. just exp
      just exp 10 September 2018 09: 03
      +5
      but what does Lugansk and what is happening in Kiev?
      or did he drive through Kiev and there he settled for a couple of years and only returned from there?
  8. bober1982
    bober1982 10 September 2018 08: 28
    +12
    The Patriarchate of Constantinople is in a miserable position, is supported by the US State Department, the CIA and the Vatican, the "flock" itself is a couple of thousand people (in Turkey), the rest are in Canada and the United States, the residence itself is constantly attacked by Turkish militants, to which the Turkish authorities defiantly pay no attention.
    The statements and actions that Bartholomew made from his Turkish quarter at the direction of his sponsors are simply incredible in their arrogance, and the consequences will be grave. This is a war on all fronts.
    1. Overland whale
      Overland whale 10 September 2018 10: 49
      0
      You're not right. The Patriarchate of Constantinople submits to Greek Fr. Crete, all Greek monasteries of the Aion-Oros (Athos) Peninsula, the Greek Metropolitanate of France, the Finnish Human Rights Center, the Estonian Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Canada, the American Carpathian Orthodox Church in the USA, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America, as well as the Austrian, Belgian, German, Pyrenees, Thyatira, Gallic, Scandinavian, Swiss, Buenos Aires, Toronto, Boston, Denver, New York, Pittsburgh, Chicago, San Francisco Metropolis, and these are thousands of parishes and millions of parishioners.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 10 September 2018 11: 10
        +1
        All these metropolises and all kinds of HRCs have long departed from Orthodoxy, having come under the influence of Constantinople, many of the organizations you have listed are marginalized, and have no relation to Orthodoxy.
        1. Overland whale
          Overland whale 10 September 2018 13: 03
          0
          Without going into clarification of the criteria for "departing from Orthodoxy", I will ask only one question: what, Athos also "moved away from Orthodoxy", right? Who then did not leave? And who determines who departed and who did not? In universal Orthodoxy, in general, any autocephalous local Church is a unit absolutely independent of other Orthodox Churches, and its "correctness / incorrectness" is determined only by one criterion - the presence or absence of Eucharistic communion between the Churches (that is, believers of different autocephalous Churches can or cannot mutually commune in temples of each other). There are no other criteria. And there is Eucharistic communion between the ROC and the Constantinople Orthodox Church.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 10 September 2018 13: 38
            0
            Quote: Whale Land
            Athos also "departed from Orthodoxy", right?

            Yes, but if it is only how to understand what Athos is, it is big and different, by the way I did not mention it.
            Quote: Whale Land
            And then who didn’t leave?

            Никто.

            Quote: Whale Land
            And who determines who has departed and who has not?

            Creed, the decisions of the Orthodox Ecumenical Councils, the creation of the Holy Fathers of the Church - the purity of Orthodox dogmas, is determined. Do not diminish or add.
            1. Overland whale
              Overland whale 10 September 2018 18: 05
              0
              Well, that is, if two Sister Churches are in Eucharistic communion, then I am more than sure that their primates recognize the equal grace of the sacraments in both Churches, as well as the conformity of the official doctrine of these Churches with the Creed and all other criteria that you mentioned.
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 10 September 2018 18: 41
                0
                Quote: Whale Land
                as well as compliance

                As for the conformity of Constantinople all the criteria of the official doctrine, as it were delicate to say, a lot of uncomfortable questions for them. The old soldier would say in all simplicity - you crap ... official doctrine ,too much.
      2. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 35
        +2
        Quote: Whale Land
        and these are thousands of parishes and millions of parishioners.

        So why is this patriarch not with his flock, but sitting literally under siege among the Muslim population of Turkey?
        1. Overland whale
          Overland whale 10 September 2018 13: 09
          0
          He is at his canonical patriarchal chair, and the fact that now Constantinople is held captive by the Hagarians, from a spiritual point of view, does not matter. For some reason, God overlooked this state of things.
          And the flock dispersed all over the world after the genocide of the Asia Minor Greeks at the beginning of the 20th century - but this does not mean that the primate of the Church should rush after her around the world))).
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 43
            +2
            Quote: Whale Land
            For some reason, God overlooked this state of things.

            Do you want to say in order for the ecumenical patriarch to tear the Ukrainian flock from the Russian Orthodox Church under pressure from NATO special services?
  9. bald
    bald 10 September 2018 08: 38
    +3
    The ratio of opponents and willing will remain the same - at least it will be seen who is who. But the churches of the Russian Orthodox Church, loot, for me it is history and museums (I do not belong to any denomination) - something needs to be done.
  10. Andy
    Andy 10 September 2018 08: 41
    +5
    war for the capsule. faith didn’t stand nearby.
  11. Altona
    Altona 10 September 2018 08: 43
    +1
    Quote: bober1982
    The statements and actions that Bartholomew made from his Turkish quarter at the direction of his sponsors are simply incredible in their arrogance, and the consequences will be grave. This is a war on all fronts.

    -----------------------------
    I understand that they decided to build their own Russian Vatican in Sergiev Posad? They want to carry out some kind of reconstruction, to demolish some of the old churches. When I was there in 1992, you go like this "temple of the XNUMXth century", then the XNUMXth and so on, although they were then roughly restored and painted with lime and oil paint. I do not understand these body movements of the church hierarchs. But such statements from Istanbul are throwing stones at the soil of the Orthodox (Orthodox) Church.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 10 September 2018 09: 04
      +5
      Quote: Altona
      I understand that in Sergiev Posad they decided to build their Russian Vatican?

      Quite the opposite is true, Bartholomew is obsessed with the idea of ​​the Orthodox "papacy", the Church of Constantinople itself has for a century been a hotbed of liberalism, renovationism and various troubles.
      Quote: Altona
      But such statements from Istanbul are throwing stones at the soil of the Orthodox (orthodox) church.

      With such statements Bartholomew endowed himself with the rights of the pope.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 45
        +1
        Quote: ver_
        ... Rome was founded by George Dolgoruky and Ivan Kalita ... In principle, the first pope is Ivan Kalita

        Either put emoticons, or show a certificate from a psychiatrist request
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 41
      -2
      .. The church was in those days: - monasteries - chroniclers, post office, * universities *, inventors - science developed there ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. free
        free 10 September 2018 21: 19
        0
        Quote: dauria
        Religion is opium. Eat handfuls of drugs, your choice.


        When you break your leg, or gnaw at a bullet, I suppose ask for an anesthetic. Or refuse and die of a pain shock? Faith is one of the methods of psychological defense. Efficient, cheap and timely. Sometimes it does not allow a person to go crazy. Changes the perception of reality, like all other methods of protection. Come up with a replacement - you are a genius. Vodka, ecstasy and antidepressants do not offer, expensive and not always at hand. And religion is just the second derivative of faith. Based on commodity-money relations.

        Opium is opium, if you do not twist. And the class essence also can not be put anywhere. And faith can be different, not necessarily religious.
  13. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 10 September 2018 09: 02
    +2
    Yes, they are pressing us from all sides!
    Politics, sports, economics, now we got to religion!
    1. Henderson
      Henderson 11 September 2018 11: 49
      0
      And there was no need to merge religion with state institutions. Moreover, Russia under the Constitution is a secular state.
  14. Troll
    Troll 10 September 2018 09: 05
    -1
    That is rather the victory of Islam. Like it or not, but the more contention in Christianity, the stronger the Muslim teaching.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 10 September 2018 09: 30
      -6
      Quote: Troll
      That is rather the victory of Islam. Like it or not, but the more contention in Christianity, the stronger the Muslim teaching.

      Christians rule the world.
    2. just exp
      just exp 10 September 2018 09: 30
      +1
      there, too, the butch between the Shiites and Sunnis begins to flare up with renewed vigor.
  15. Baloo
    Baloo 10 September 2018 09: 06
    +6
    The isolation of Russia continues. If Assad is not given enough air defense assets and the collective assassination destroys the collective west, we will have to leave as we left Afghanistan. Then the problems will begin with the sale of our main export product - hydrocarbons.
    As for Constantinople, a single Orthodox Church is needed only by Russia, all the rest need money for belonging. I sympathize with the believers of both churches in Ukraine.
    If I were a believer, I would say that God turned his back on Ukraine and its people.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  16. Nikolay R
    Nikolay R 10 September 2018 09: 08
    +2
    The script is clearly Americanos. Only they do not understand what and with whom they are dealing. From the junta and all sympathizers will remain only the tail and feathers.
  17. Bastinda
    Bastinda 10 September 2018 09: 13
    -1
    I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
    ROC to ban! Popov dispossess! Withdraw all funds and assets, direct to the development of basic research.
    And to believe in GTR and St. Isaac (Einstein) or Leibovitz ... laughing
    1. just exp
      just exp 10 September 2018 09: 32
      +2
      see South Park science series (go ahead God go ahead)
    2. Nikolay R
      Nikolay R 10 September 2018 09: 55
      -2
      Do you know that unbelief is also faith? Only faith that there is no God.
      You will say that it is obvious that there is no God. But I will answer that this is obvious to you, and it is just as obvious to me that He is.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 42
        +2
        Quote: Nikolai R
        Do you know that unbelief is also faith?

        Do you know that this meaningless passage was invented by believers?
        The atheist is constantly checking the presence / absence of God with science. And if he sees that no god is needed for the decay of the nucleus of an atom, then the atheist understands that there is no evidence for God, but against that - the whole history of science.
        1. Nikolay R
          Nikolay R 10 September 2018 12: 17
          -2
          For instance? Give at least one serious proof that there is no God. Very interesting.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 56
            +2
            Quote: Nikolai R
            Give at least one serious proof that there is no God.

            The proof is the history of science. What was considered divine yesterday is used today in the kitchen. So why should we assume that in a yet unknown region there is a certain god?
            P.S. I wrote long and beautifully, but it seems that the site has time limits for writing comments. Or God intervened lol
            1. Nikolay R
              Nikolay R 10 September 2018 16: 43
              -1
              But how does the history of science prove that there is no God? I do not need long and beautiful. Write simply and concretely.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 13 September 2018 18: 55
                0
                Quote: Nikolai R
                But how does the history of science prove that there is no God?

                Constantly. Everything finds and finds cause-effect relationships of phenomena and it becomes clear that God is nowhere, for nothing is required.
                Quote: Nikolai R
                one of God's attributes is omnipresent. That is, there is no place where there is no His presence.

                Beautiful ... and pointless. It turns out that God is in me, therefore, everything that I do is done by God. So come on, pray for me!
                Ah, there is God in you too ?! Do you also need to pray? But we argue - is God arguing with himself? Does he have nothing to do?
                "We are not playing with money.
                We just want to spend eternity ... "
                (EMNIP "Faust", Goethe)
                Quote: Nikolai P
                Better not to disgrace yourself and do not write anything else about this. In order to challenge something, you need to know at least a little the subject of the dispute.

                Nervous already? Right! Your arguments are primitive, long debated and refuted. I suspect that when I first led such disputes, you still walked under the table.
            2. Nikolay R
              Nikolay R 10 September 2018 17: 45
              0
              “So why should it be assumed that there is a certain god in the as yet unknown area?” Is this your proof? So it will be known to you that one of the properties of God is omnipresent. That is, there is no place where there is no His presence. He is everywhere. You can see he is still a theologian. Better not disgrace yourself and do not write anything else about this. In order to dispute something, you need to know at least a little the subject of the dispute.
            3. rruvim
              rruvim 10 September 2018 23: 07
              0
              I am glad that in the end you believe in God! When you die ... There is almost no other evidence. Except FAITH.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 13 September 2018 19: 07
                0
                Quote: rruvim
                There is almost no other evidence. Except FAITH.

                Right. There is no evidence for God.
                And this has long been known to all theologians. That is why the disbelievers of God invented Thomas the unbeliever - a primitive edification to all doubters: "Well, Thomas didn’t believe either. And then he touched and - believed !!!!"
                Quote: rruvim
                I am glad that in the end you believe in God!

                And I am glad for you that you are happy for me. And it seems to me that in the end you will gain the strength to recognize that there is no god. But this is not the main thing.
                The main thing in matters of faith is not to force one another to believe or to refuse faith.
                We have one homeland, we live near. We have one life, and we must live it in such a way that later we should not regret the time spent in vain in disputes about faith.
                So to all believers and unbelievers - all the best, see you on other occasions, where we are more united!
            4. aiden
              aiden 12 September 2018 03: 31
              0
              Someone gradually gives certain knowledge to people, at a certain stage.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 13 September 2018 19: 32
                0
                Quote: aiden
                Someone gradually gives certain knowledge to people

                But scientists don’t know this ... suffer, work!
      2. Henderson
        Henderson 11 September 2018 11: 50
        -1
        Quote: Nikolai R
        Do you know that unbelief is also faith? Only faith that there is no God.

        demagogy. Atheism is NOT faith, it is the LACK of faith.
        1. Nikolay R
          Nikolay R 12 September 2018 11: 58
          0
          I hope you studied at school and heard at least out of the ear that there is such a theory of relativity of Einstein? It all depends on what you take the starting point. If we take atheism as a starting point, then for any atheist faith in God will mean disbelief that God does not exist.
          1. Nikolay R
            Nikolay R 12 September 2018 12: 09
            0
            For what reason?
          2. Svateev
            Svateev 13 September 2018 19: 41
            0
            Quote: Nikolai R
            If we take atheism as a starting point, then for any atheist, faith in God will mean disbelief that God does not exist.

            Have you decided to do scholasticism? Then you would have to learn from the medieval scholastics. They turned the logic inside out - anyway ... expensive exercise was to prove that the stick has two beginnings and two ends. And at the same time.
            And your task is for beginners: denial of negation. Answer - You are wrong. Not believing that there is no god does not necessarily mean believing that he is. Because the third option is possible: I don’t know. Or even the fourth: God is and is not at the same time.
            How did I bend, huh? wink
    3. Baloo
      Baloo 10 September 2018 10: 45
      0
      Quote: Bastinda
      I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
      ROC to ban! Popov dispossess!

      Misha no longer pour. fool
    4. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 10: 51
      -3
      Quote: Bastinda
      I offer an asymmetric response to the recognition of autocephaly of the Ukrainian church!
      ROC to ban! Popov dispossess! Withdraw all funds and assets, direct to the development of basic research.

      Already passed. Only then such clever people washed their face with snot in the GULAGs, with the eternal Ukrainian question - "And what about me?"
    5. ver_
      ver_ 10 September 2018 12: 50
      0
      ... Einstein - he was a good thief - Stoletov had 2 laws of the photoelectric effect - he communized and received the Nobel Prize for him - in a word - a Jew ..
    6. vadimtt
      vadimtt 10 September 2018 13: 04
      +1
      No, you can do without GR, and even more so a holy accountant. Lord Kelvin to the throne!
  18. Maalkavianin
    Maalkavianin 10 September 2018 09: 14
    +6
    The 21st century is in the yard, and people still believe in gods, demons, sleep and a black cat ... This is sad.
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 10 September 2018 09: 25
      -1
      Quote: Malkavianin
      This is sad.


      It’s sad not to believe it. And that's why.

      I'm going. On an oncoming car rides. And the black cat (whether it is a cat) crosses both of us and the road turns out. I turned around. He is not. He still smiled. My passenger also giggled. I’ve done everything I’ve done, I’m going back, and he, the one who was going to meet me. Through one intersection from the place where the cat was in an accident. Not too much. But still.

      Quote: Malkavianin
      dream


      The phenomenon is uncontrollable.

      Although you may not believe it.

      hi
      1. Maalkavianin
        Maalkavianin 10 September 2018 09: 26
        +5
        By coincidence, this does not happen. hi
        1. Vanek
          Vanek 10 September 2018 15: 55
          -1
          Quote: Malkavianin
          By coincidence, this does not happen.


          I do not know... smile

          Denis hi
      2. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 11: 57
        +2
        Quote: Vanek
        On an oncoming car rides. ... I turned around. He is not. ... I’ve done everything I’ve done, I’m going back, and he, the one who was going to meet me. Through one intersection from the place where the cat was in an accident.

        So: you turned around and drove in the SAME DIRECTION as the oncoming car. And after one intersection I didn’t notice how the oncoming car got into an accident, but noticed it only when I did my thing and came back ...
        Oh, yes Vanya! Ay yes storyteller !!
        1. Vanek
          Vanek 10 September 2018 15: 53
          -2
          Quote: Svateev
          Ay yes storyteller !!


          I read what You quoted from my comment.

          Half are "crossed out".

          И you what? Do you think I'm responsible for the storyteller? So what?

          you from scraps "blinded" OWN version.

          group "Bachelor party" song "I love people"

          - Damn! * Yes, he went!
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 11: 21
      -1
      Quote: Malkavianin
      21st century in the yard

      I never understood, and I do not understand this phrase. What is time? Tell me please.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 05
        +3
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        I never understood, and I do not understand this phrase.

        The phrase means that by the 21 century so much scientific (confirmed) knowledge has been accumulated that believing in a black cat is bad manners (stupidity).
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 12: 28
          -1
          I'm talking about time. What is time?
          Quote: Svateev
          by the 21st century, so much scientific (confirmed) knowledge has been accumulated that believing in a black cat is bad manners (stupidity).

          Nonetheless. The people sat and clapped their eyes on Kashpirovsky’s passes, my grandmother put two cans of water when Chumak charged them. Something got me wrong. laughing And time ... No it. People came up with the concept to justify their activities.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 10 September 2018 14: 08
            +2
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            And time ... There is none of it.

            Sometimes it really seems so. Because the composition of mankind is constantly being updated and some of the new ones do not want to assimilate the achievements of their predecessors.
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            The people sat and clapped their eyes on Kashpirovsky’s passes

            Exactly yesterday on TV they showed in the news that Kashpirovsky resumed his tour of Russia. Somewhere in the Urals or Siberia. DK is full of people, aunts enthusiastically fall to the floor at the wave of His hand (no, like this: HIS hands). The psychiatrist on duty complains: the next day after Kashpirovsky's session, the ambulance did not have time to leave the psychiatric hospital, and not only "recidivists" were transported, but also "debutists".
            - So all our customers are eager for these sessions! - He speaks.
  19. Yrec
    Yrec 10 September 2018 09: 19
    -2
    Bartholomew either completely out of his mind survived, or he was intimidated to death. He cannot but understand that he is now the root cause of a serious split in the Orthodox Church. His name will be trampled into the mud, and he will be anathematized for such a thing. What is necessary to be an imbalance in order not to understand this? After all, half of the Orthodox are under the authority of the Russian Orthodox Church.
    1. rruvim
      rruvim 10 September 2018 23: 15
      +1
      Patriarch Bartholomew is not commemorated in half of the churches in Greece. On Mount Athos (the canonical territory of the Ecumenical Patriarchate) a whole Monastery (Esfigmen) "rebelled" several years ago. He was joined by a number of sketes and cells. Supporters and monks of this movement against the "Freemason" Bartholomew were called "Zealots". In Greece there are about 6 million of them.
  20. serge serge
    serge serge 10 September 2018 09: 29
    0
    Well obsessed priests because of the dough. So at them every day is such a mess. And do not make universal catastrophe out of this.
    1. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 21
      +1
      Quote: Serge Serge
      Well obsessed priests because of the dough. So at them every day is such a mess. And do not make universal catastrophe out of this.

      Sergey, the religious feeling is one of the strongest. A person will go to die for the Shrine, but he will not need a monument of architecture. Atheists make one stupid mistake: they approach the issue of faith in God from a consumer perspective - they equate going to church to going to the deli, and then they wonder why such a cool idea like communism ends up in a garbage can.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 12
        +3
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        religious feeling is one of the strongest.

        This is a fact.
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        A person will go to die for the Shrine, but he will not need a monument of architecture.

        And you are a believer. The invented supreme being (god) is more important to you than the creation of human hands.
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        Atheists ... going to church is equated to going to the deli

        Not at the grocery store, but at the cinema or the theater. Needs are satisfied the same - spiritual.
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        why such a cool idea, like communism, is in a garbage can.

        And therefore, why the church abandoned Christianity is not viable.
        1. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 28
          -1
          Quote: Svateev
          And you are a believer. The invented supreme being (god) is more important to you than the creation of human hands.

          "God has no hands other than yours" (c). A person does something of his own free will, something according to the will of God or the devil ... Do not understand.
          By the way, about the divine and the earthly: there is a parable "Chanterelle" or "Chanterelle and milk", it is clearly described there.
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Not at the grocery store, but at the cinema or the theater. Needs are satisfied the same - spiritual.

          It is in the gastrana that they look at the prices of candles, sacraments, etc. and compare here is more expensive, cheaper there, everything is like in a store. And even funnier when they begin to compare our churches and the Catholic. There de candles are generally free.
          Quote: Svateev
          And therefore, why the church abandoned Christianity is not viable.

          Where are such conclusions from?
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 10 September 2018 15: 45
            +2
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            Man does something of his own free will, something by the will of God or the devil ... Do not understand.

            Spit over your shoulder? And through what, to get to hell, and not to an angel?
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            look at the prices of candles, sacraments, etc. and compare here is more expensive, cheaper there, everything is like in a store.

            Are you talking about atheists or about your church members?
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            Where are such conclusions from?

            How that is "from where" ?! The meaning of Christ's teaching is non-resistance to evil. And the church?
            1) "Thou shalt not kill" was canceled. Blessed warriors for what?
            2) "Turn the other cheek" - this is where?
            3) "Do not steal," and the church agreed to usury.
            Etc. etc.
            1. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 16: 17
              0
              Quote: Svateev
              Spit over your shoulder? And through what, to get to hell, and not to an angel?

              I do not spit, the Church does not encourage superstition.
              Quote: Svateev
              Are you talking about atheists or about your church members?

              This is me about atheists and "passing" who justify their laziness with thieving priests.
              Quote: Svateev
              1) "Thou shalt not kill" was canceled. Blessed warriors for what?

              The Church blesses the Protectors, not the murderers. War does not do without death, and the dead soldiers are on the conscience of the aggressor, not the defenders.
              Quote: Svateev
              2) "Turn the other cheek" - this is where?

              Does the Church teach the opposite?
              Quote: Svateev
              3) "Do not steal", and the church agreed to usury. Etc. etc.

              What agreed? Banking is one of the human activities, as is the manufacture and sale of alcohol ... Do you propose that the Church declare a Crusade against bankers and winemakers?
              No need to bring to the point of absurdity.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 13 September 2018 19: 56
                0
                Quote: EwgenyZ
                dead soldiers on the conscience of the aggressor, not the defenders.

                I think so too!
                But Christ thought differently: do not kill NEVER. And when they asked him what to do, if you were hit on the cheek, he replied that it was necessary to substitute the second. And God will help, we must hope for him.
                Do you even know this ?! Have you not read the gospel, believer ?!
                Therefore, I say that Christianity is a beautiful, but not marketable, and therefore harmful idea.
                The history of the discussion of this issue is as old as Christianity itself. Why did the Romans poison the first Christians in the arenas? They showed that the Christian faith does not help, but kills believers and is not suitable for real life.
                Quote: EwgenyZ
                Does the Church teach the opposite?

                Hello! You just said that you need to defend yourself. And then - that you need to substitute a second cheek.
                If nothing confuses you in your logic - recourse
      2. serge serge
        serge serge 26 June 2019 10: 19
        0
        In some ways, you are right, only here the obscurantist priests (and everyone, from the Sumerian priests to modern gurus of all stripes), for some reason, from time immemorial, have been striped exclusively because of the ball (land, gold, rent) - underline the necessary ... And the believers who have been put on by them, they really will willingly go to kill, for the Lord, who, it turns out, "loves everyone."
        A trip to the obscurantist priest is not in the deli (although they also sell here: candles and magic services), it’s more like a psychotherapist (it’s not for nothing that this gang has bred to reduce the general interest in religion). Well, or if there is no other entertainment in the village, then it’s like going to a club
  21. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 10 September 2018 09: 40
    +2
    Grand schism in the Orthodox world
    Now Orthodoxy is not at all what it was before, and Christianity in general, it does not have that unifying role that it once was
    1. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 25
      -1
      Quote: _Ugene_
      Orthodoxy now is not at all what it used to be,

      How do you know this? have you lived before
      Quote: _Ugene_
      and Christianity in general, he does not have that unifying role that was once

      What are you talking about? About heretics who fell away from the Church? The Lord said, "Many are called, but few are chosen." Belief in God is not a political ideology, it is a path to salvation.
      1. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ 10 September 2018 11: 33
        +4
        How do you know this? have you lived before
        do you think that you can only judge what you saw personally? history, as a science, so you deny it? it’s very, original way to put it mildly so as not to offend, an original approach
        What are you talking about? About heretics who have fallen from the Church?
        no, I mean that in modern Europe, Russia, the USA, Christianity has now become more of a decorative religion, and much fewer people go to church and of those who go few really believers, most perceive this as a kind of ritual and that’s all, the flowering of Christianity is in the past , therefore, the strife within the church does not have a special effect on society, for example, what has changed in our society with the split of the Russian and Ukrainian churches? nothing, and in the future this fact will not have a significant impact on society
        1. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 41
          0
          Quote: _Ugene_
          do you think that you can only judge what you saw personally? history, as a science, so you deny it?

          What did I refute her?
          no, I mean that in modern Europe, Russia, the USA, Christianity has now become more of a decorative religion, and much fewer people go to church, and of those who go few really believers, most perceive this as a kind of ritual and that’s it,

          I do not argue, I wrote about this above. This is the result of a very "smart" thought: "God is in the soul."
          Quote: _Ugene_
          the flowering of Christianity is a thing of the past

          Controversial statement. Mass character is not yet a success: "For I tell you that none of those invited will taste my supper, for many are invited, but few are chosen." (Luke 14:24)
          Quote: _Ugene_
          nothing, and in the future this fact will not have a significant impact on society

          We will see. As long as there is a person, there will be religious wars, and here, apparently, it is precisely this ending that is going on.
          1. _Ugene_
            _Ugene_ 10 September 2018 18: 23
            +1
            What did I refute her?
            You ask, "How do you know this? Did you live before?" if I have not lived before and have not seen it personally, then other sources are not an argument for you? if not, what is the point of your question?
            This is the result of a very "smart" thought: "God is in the soul."
            it’s not important the result of what it is, the fact that Christianity is dying away is important
            Mass is not success yet
            in the case of religion, is it difficult to agree, did Christ ascend to the cross for the salvation of mankind or a miserable handful of the elect? then he could limit himself to saving his apostles, but he bequeathed to carry the teaching to the masses
      2. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 14
        +3
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        How do you know this? have you lived before

        Have you lived? Not. And how do you know about Christ?
        From books, dear, from books. In them, people just expound what they think.
      3. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 17
        +2
        Quote: EwgenyZ
        Faith in God is not a political ideology, it is the path to salvation.

        Show at least one survivor. I'd like to see it!
        That's when atheists will develop genetics, CRISPR technology and so on - then we will start saving ourselves (they will begin, descendants, we are unlikely to survive ...)
        1. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 44
          +1
          Quote: Svateev
          Show at least one survivor. I'd like to see it!

          This will be shown to you by the Guardian Angel on the third day after death and before the ninth. I hope you do not get this day soon)))
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 13 September 2018 20: 05
            0
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            I hope you do not get this day soon)))

            Thank! Good health and good doctors too!
            Quote: EwgenyZ
            This will show you the Guardian Angel on the third day after death and until the ninth

            It is clear: you cannot show the survivors. Can you show at least one to whom the guardian angel showed the survivors?
  22. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 10 September 2018 09: 48
    0
    Hellenes are evil. Although here, obviously, the hand of Erdogan and Hakan Fidan is visible, which operate within the framework of the non-recognition of the history of Crimea.

    Bartholomew, like any other religious leader, is in Turkey under the strict control of the authorities and special services.

    So the unity of Orthodoxy, as in ancient times, is threatened only by political issues, as was the case with the Council of Chalcedon, which was not recognized by the representatives of the Armenian, Ethiopian, Coptic, Syrian and Malankar ancient Eastern churches. So now, the issue is exclusively political. So it should be decided by politicians and special services, Bartholomew only implements the decision on Ukraine.
  23. 3vs
    3vs 10 September 2018 09: 49
    +1
    So, it is necessary to assemble the cathedral as early as possible, on which to drive citizen Bartholomew with a filthy broom,
    otherwise it will be too late.
  24. Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 10 September 2018 09: 55
    0
    The most interesting thing here is this: Bartholomew is really going to recognize the autocephaly of the sect of Mishka Denisenko, or is the cunning Greek going to squeeze the territory of Ukraine for himself? The appointment of "exarchs" seems to support the second option.
    No less interesting, which side will the other local churches - Moscow or Istanbul - take on this issue?
    1. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 11: 29
      +1
      Bartholomew is going to become the second "Pope" and see Filaret in his submission. He does not understand one thing: the matter will not end with this split, the situation will develop further: there will be a union of the UOC-KP, but already without Filaret and Bartholomew.
  25. Larum
    Larum 10 September 2018 09: 59
    +5
    What to argue! Quickly take off for new temples and new opium for the people.
    To forget faster than the USSR, when everyone was together, and priests were not welcomed like that ...
    1. Bastinda
      Bastinda 10 September 2018 11: 07
      +3
      How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly laughing laughing
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 21
        +3
        Quote: Bastinda
        without them and God's will, companions do not fly

        When "Tanya" was there, they flew. And as priests began to invite - so only "over the hill" and fly ... Either mysticism, or an indicator of the level of development of modern leaders of Roscosmos.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 10 September 2018 21: 18
          0
          I always wanted to know what the price is for the rites. How many ceremonies take place in the diocese per day and where do the revenues go (and it is also interesting how the parish is inherited?).
          Religion is a belief system based on belief in the supernatural ... or not.
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 49
        0
        Quote: Bastinda
        How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly laughing laughing

        Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....
        1. free
          free 10 September 2018 21: 30
          +1
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Quote: Bastinda
          How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly laughing laughing

          Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....

          Of course, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just useless.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 13 September 2018 20: 16
            +1
            Quote: free
            Of course there’s nothing wrong with that,

            Yes, how to say ...
            While this is part of a truly personal faith, unbelief - you can agree with you. But we must not forget the story: even the ancient Greeks realized that the Earth is a ball and moves around the Sun. And then Christianity suppressed real science for one and a half millennia and the Inquisition burned Giordano Bruno for the same thought. Even in the seventeenth century, Ptolemy was considered the greatest scientist, that is, the development of science simply stopped at 1,5 thousand years.
        2. free
          free 11 October 2018 09: 02
          0
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Quote: Bastinda
          How so, because without them and God's permission, the satellites do not fly laughing laughing

          Do you think that consecration somehow affects a rocket badly? Here, for example, N.V. Malysheva or B.V. Rauschenbach did not see anything bad in this ....

          Does the church have a class affiliation and protect the interests of certain classes?
  26. atalef
    atalef 10 September 2018 10: 01
    -2
    [Quote
    To date, there are approximately 300 million believers in Orthodoxy, of which the largest number of representatives are in Russia and other countries of the post-Soviet space [quote]
    In Russia, 58 million Orthodox Christians - all post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through which it is optimistic.
    So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia?
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 10 September 2018 10: 14
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia? All post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through what optimistic.


      Forgive me, but I do not know what it is, "through what is optimistic." And in general, where did you see the phrase in the text that "the entire post-Soviet space is Orthodox"? Apparently, a long stay in a foreign land still affects.

      In Russian it is written in white: "the largest number of representatives in Russia and other post-Soviet countries."

      VTsIOM: In Russia, 73% (2014) consider themselves Orthodox Christians - 106 million people. This data can not be trusted, but it is official data. Or in some country more Orthodox?
      1. atalef
        atalef 10 September 2018 10: 26
        -1
        Quote: Volodin
        Quote: atalef
        So why did the author count more than half of the Orthodox in the world at the expense of Russia? All post-Soviet space attributed to Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church - through what optimistic.


        Forgive me, but I do not know what it is, "through what is optimistic." And in general, where did you see the phrase in the text that "the entire post-Soviet space is Orthodox"? Apparently, a long stay in a foreign land still affects.

        In Russian it is written in white: "the largest number of representatives in Russia and other post-Soviet countries."

        VTsIOM: In Russia, 73% (2014) consider themselves Orthodox Christians - 106 million people. This data can not be trusted, but it is official data. Or in some country more Orthodox?

        Through what - damn auto-corrector - meant - Over the chur.
        Further in the text - if it is written that there are 300 million Orthodox Christians in the world, most of them in the post-Soviet space and in Russia should have at least 150 million logic of things.
        So I had a question - where did these numbers come from and why did all the post-Soviet space automatically relate to the Russian Orthodox Church.

        According to the All-Russian study “Atlas of Religions and Nationalities”, conducted by the “Wednesday” service in August 2012, in 79 from 83 subjects of the Russian Federation, religiosity among Russians, whose total number is 143,2 million people, was distributed as follows [10] [15]:

        58,8 million or 41% - profess Orthodoxy and belong to the Russian Orthodox Church
        36 million or 25% - believe in God, but do not profess a specific religion
        18 million or 13% - do not believe in God
        9,4 million or 6,5% - profess Islam (including Sunnis, Shiites and those who do not consider themselves Sunni or Shiite)
        5,9 million or 4,1% - profess Christianity, but do not consider themselves Orthodox or Catholics or Protestants
        2,1 million or 1,5% - profess Orthodoxy, but do not belong to the Russian Orthodox Church and are not Old Believers
        1,7 million or 1,2% - profess the traditional religion of their ancestors, worship the gods and forces of nature
        700 000 or 0,4% - profess Buddhism (mainly Tibetan)
        400 000 or 0,2% - Old Believers
        300 000 or 0,2% - Protestants (Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelists, Anglicans)
        140 000 or 0,1% - profess Eastern religions and spiritual practices (Hindus and Hare Krishnas)
        140 000 or 0,1% - Catholics
        1. Rusj
          Rusj 10 September 2018 10: 39
          +2
          This is the US data for Easter 2018 in Russia.
          The latest data is provided by the famous American research center Pew. According to him, 71% of Russians profess Orthodoxy (in 1991 there were 37%) and 75% of Russia's population believe in God. The study also provides data on Muslims - their 10%
          There are Orthodox Christians in Russia - 73,62%
          Muslims - 10,19%
          A variety of micro-exotic in the amount of 4,06%
          Unbelievers - 12,13%
    2. Rusj
      Rusj 10 September 2018 10: 16
      -1
      The latest data is provided by the famous American research center Pew. According to him, 71% of Russians profess Orthodoxy (in 1991 there were 37%) and 75% of Russia's population believe in God. The study also provides data on Muslims - their 10%.

      Sociologists have noticed an interesting detail: in Russia and Eastern Europe, the vast majority of believers associate their worldview with national identity. Moreover, in Russia, according to the data of American scientists, even Muslims and atheists attach national identity to Orthodoxy.

      Learn the mat part and before writing at least ask Google !!!
    3. Rusj
      Rusj 10 September 2018 10: 20
      +4
      Moreover, in Russia, according to the data of American scientists, even Muslims and atheists attach their national identity to Orthodoxy.
      And this is the most important thing you do not understand! That’s why it makes you feel that Orthodoxy is associated precisely with Russia with our worldview and self-identity. Got it?
  27. akunin
    akunin 10 September 2018 10: 06
    +1
    Ukraine is on the verge of a new war, in comparison with which even the current civil war may seem to be “flowers”, despite thousands and thousands of its victims. This is a truly serious danger of a religious war.
    there will be no war, the Moscow patriarchate must come to terms with the fact that the loot and real estate will float away (they will get nothing from us). The church is not fighting for souls - it is gaining money. Ukraine has swallowed the Maidan, it will also swallow.
  28. Ros 56
    Ros 56 10 September 2018 10: 17
    +2
    God knows we didn’t want a confrontation with Ukraine either in secular or religious life, but apparently the time comes when you need to determine who you are, with the Satanists who measure religion by the cost of churches and parishes and traitors who betrayed their fathers and grandfathers who laid their heads in the fight against the Nazis, and imposing on the people Bandera and his worldview, or you with the truly Orthodox and descendants of the soldiers of the Victors of fascism. The choice for many will be difficult, but it will have to be done. And the clash will be inevitable, but not in the light of the contradictions between Russia and Ukraine of a material and national character, but the clash will be between good and evil, which can not be humanly estimated.
  29. Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 10 September 2018 10: 21
    -2
    Quote: Examenatornick
    Well then, look, I wrote the word "god" with a small letter.

    It does not decorate you and your moral character! God, the Divine in the soul of a Russian person, is so intimate and not put on display to everyone differently ... It is like a mother, children, wife ... pure and not for sticky, greedy gossip ..
    1. Examenatornick
      Examenatornick 10 September 2018 11: 17
      +3
      this is my reaction to the fact that my uncle is taller, he began to teach everyone that it is not necessary to write the abbreviation "ROC" but to write Ruuusskaya Pravoslaavnaya Church Church ... that's all. I respect the feelings of believers as long as they respect the feelings of non-believers. "You" believe well, and write as you please, there is no need to be clever in front of those who do not believe.
  30. Snail N9
    Snail N9 10 September 2018 10: 25
    0
    Oh, yes, some kind of "war". "Orthodoxy" has long been, is not something so necessary in the "post-Soviet space", for which one must fight with arms in hand. To defend a bowl of stew, and even then, the ass is not always lifted from the couch, and then some kind of "Orthodoxy" ... winked
  31. Avior
    Avior 10 September 2018 10: 26
    -2
    After several cases, such as a refusal right at the funeral to sing the funeral of a child who was dead, the reputation of the Russian Orthodox Church has fallen sharply in Ukraine.
    If the Russian Orthodox Church breaks away from the general union of Orthodox churches, it will hit her even harder, wait for the accusations that she is only interested in money ..
    What the Orthodox churches that arose in Ukraine were accused of in the Russian Orthodox Church, if the Russian Orthodox Church withdraws from the Orthodox Union, it will hit them themselves.
    It seems to me that there will be no way out, for the Russian Orthodox Church it will be a bigger blow than recognizing autocephaly for the Ukrainian church.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 10 September 2018 10: 43
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      like refusing directly to the funeral service for a child who was tragically killed, the Russian Orthodox Church’s reputation has fallen sharply in Ukraine.

      About the child, this is of course from the field of ukropropaganda, they perverted everything and turned it upside down, not of course you are, but local propagandists, you just repeat.
      About the reputation, which, in your words, has fallen, you ask those who went to the religious procession when they introduced the entire Bandera company into fear.
      1. Avior
        Avior 10 September 2018 10: 49
        -2
        yeah, ukrpropaganda
        https://diak-kuraev.livejournal.com/1882512.html
        That is why I say that the boy Zhenya can bury the future of the UOC-MP. So it is in the interests of the Moscow Patriarchate to put pressure on Metropolitan of Kiev. Onufriy so that he publicly dissociated himself from Luka Mudishchev-Zaporozhye and his invented "canons".
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 10 September 2018 11: 14
          +1
          This is a well-known church provocator, I mean Father Andrew, it’s even worse than dill propaganda.
          1. Avior
            Avior 10 September 2018 23: 43
            0
            well yes. that provocateur, that ukrpropaganda, that something else.
            And Metropolitan Alexander (Drabinenko), who also condemned the actions of the priest, is also a provocateur?
            Well, for the Russian Orthodox Church such a provocateur on a provocateur
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 11 September 2018 07: 12
              0

              Drabinko, not Drabinenko, you should at least correctly indicate the names of your idols, this good gentleman has a distant relationship to Orthodoxy.
              1. Avior
                Avior 11 September 2018 08: 57
                +1
                Exactly, Drobinko, Metropolitan Pereyaslav-Khmelnitsky and Vishnevsky, Vicar of the Kiev Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.
                What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 11 September 2018 09: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  Exactly, Drobinko

                  Do not consider that I am clinging to your words, but not Drobinko, but Drabinko, well, what are you kidding or something, Roskolnikiv Alexander
                  Quote: Avior
                  What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?

                  And, now this is no longer funny, jokes aside, this is very serious.
                  As long as the Holy and Apostolic Orthodox Church exists, there are so many similar metropolitans and protodeacons mentioned by you. These are all demons that are idle, I mean, not Kuraev and Drabinko, I hasten to reassure you, these are their tricks, demonic.
                2. Stirbjorn
                  Stirbjorn 11 September 2018 09: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Avior
                  Exactly, Drobinko, Metropolitan Pereyaslav-Khmelnitsky and Vishnevsky, Vicar of the Kiev Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.
                  What kind of ROC do you have so that its metropolitans are distantly related to Orthodoxy?

                  Drobinko ?! I apologize for interfering, but I read about this priest-gideonist ten years ago, the Internet was littered with funny pictures, and you look, he has already become a metropolitan with such a reputation. Gee, so in the Patriarchs will crawl through. wink
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 11 September 2018 09: 47
                    0
                    Quote: Stirbjorn
                    his funny pictures the Internet was littered with

                    Yes, a funny guy who knows how to enjoy life.
    2. Rusj
      Rusj 10 September 2018 10: 43
      +1
      It was visible to the Russian Orthodox Church at a religious procession. ! And the reputation of schismatics. So keep quiet better.
  32. Waldemar
    Waldemar 10 September 2018 10: 48
    0
    First they will declare separation, then they will begin according to the old scheme a union with Catholics ... it was already. Orthodox pervert. Well bastards
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 10 September 2018 11: 56
      0
      Quote: Valdemar
      First they will declare separation, then they will begin according to the old scheme a union with Catholics ... it was already.

      So, after all, the appointed Istanbul exarchs from this same category, so to speak, with a further perspective, outlined by you.
  33. Alex66
    Alex66 10 September 2018 10: 53
    0
    The question is not a simple one, well, we are against it and what is it that, according to human logic, this is the property of the MP, so what is the main question of the church about whose buildings, structures, financial flows? But the salvation of the soul, for which Christ came to us, is it not for salvation, it may be better to give the earthly riches to his brothers and save them and himself than to war and lose our souls.
  34. canurodes
    canurodes 10 September 2018 10: 56
    +2
    All this leads to the final transformation of Ukraine into the UOC-caliphate. For all this, Uncle Sam looms again. Donbass snarls, in Syria, the barmaley were driven into a sump, well, Erdogan is on his own mind, it's time to pull out a trump card from the deck. The situation will lead to even more severe persecution of the UOC-MP; in fact, it will be outright genocide. They will start squeezing laurels to begin with and squeezing clergy - a station suitcase. The people brought to the right condition - it is to blame for the Muscovites. For us, there will be only one question to be Ukraine or not.
  35. Snail N9
    Snail N9 10 September 2018 11: 04
    +3
    Or maybe this is the point ....


    1. Nikolay R
      Nikolay R 10 September 2018 11: 11
      -3
      Or maybe you justify your sins and unbelief?
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 10 September 2018 11: 14
        -3
        "Faith to show" does not exist, dear .... wink
        1. Nikolay R
          Nikolay R 10 September 2018 11: 29
          -2
          So you my friend is a theologian! And, excuse me, which seminary-academy did you graduate from, where did you study?
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 10 September 2018 11: 40
            -1
            Not .... I’m not fooled .... You’re my friend, here: https: //forum.optina.ru/ wink
            And, about teaching "theology" .... it's funny that there are "budget places" for "this" (it is interesting to read the reasons for choosing this education in the article): https://ria.ru/religion/20170712/1498340348 .html lol
            1. Nikolay R
              Nikolay R 10 September 2018 12: 10
              -1
              Then it is clear. From ignoramuses, dvoyochniki and envious.
      2. Svateev
        Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 33
        +1
        Quote: Nikolai R
        Or maybe you justify your sins and unbelief?

        But as a matter of fact, you have nothing to say? Replacing the thesis.
        1. Nikolay R
          Nikolay R 10 September 2018 12: 47
          -2
          And what was stolen from you this car and boat, which is in the photo? There is a commandment not to steal, and there is Article 158 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Then report to the police. And if not, then the commandment is not to envy. This is about you.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 10 September 2018 13: 48
            +2
            Quote: Nikolai R
            there is a commandment do not envy.

            Quote the scripture, please!
            1. Nikolay R
              Nikolay R 10 September 2018 14: 10
              -2
              Tenth commandment

              Do not covet your neighbor's house; do not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his slave, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nothing that your neighbor has.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 10 September 2018 14: 22
                +2
                Quote: Nikolai R
                Tenth commandment

                Ahhh ... And since cars, yachts and watches are not indicated in it, you can wish for these other things and even use them.
                Or want to say that all this stuff is framed for those people who ride on them and wear them?
                1. Nikolay R
                  Nikolay R 10 September 2018 14: 43
                  -2
                  No, just saying, do not envy. It will be easier to live. And live longer. And then a toad will strangle, and prematurely possible ..., from envy ...
                  1. Svateev
                    Svateev 10 September 2018 14: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: Nikolai R
                    And then a toad will strangle, and prematurely possible ..., from envy ..

                    It turns out that there is less Christian in you than in me belay
                    1. Nikolay R
                      Nikolay R 10 September 2018 15: 11
                      -1
                      I’m worried about you, very Christian.
                      1. Svateev
                        Svateev 10 September 2018 15: 13
                        +2
                        Quote: Nikolai R
                        I'm worried about you

                        Such concern is Pharisaism. Not taught, or what?
    2. Svateev
      Svateev 10 September 2018 12: 35
      +3
      Quote: Snail N9
      Or maybe this is the point ....

      So all this was granted to our priests by the Lord! Sin to refuse ... wink
  36. Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 10 September 2018 11: 45
    0
    splitting the vast Orthodox world

    it is in this direction that the Ukrainian caesaropapists, incited by the amy, are acting
  37. akula
    akula 10 September 2018 11: 53
    +2
    Even judging by the comments, we fall into the Middle Ages. And they lead us there, as always stupid authorities and religion. All this is the beginning of the end of our civilization. Is it interesting to quickly fall apart or the collapse will drag on? One hope that smart and strong people will come to power.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 10 September 2018 12: 58
      -1
      Quote: akula
      All this is the beginning of the end of our civilization.

      All this is the end of our civilization, and not the beginning of the end, nothing unusual is happening, and no smart and strong people will come to power. The world lies in evil, the prince of this world, is near at the door and stuff, this was said long before the Middle Ages. Everything goes according to plan.
  38. Enky
    Enky 10 September 2018 11: 54
    0
    Quote: For example
    Quote: Stirbjorn
    If the Orthodox Church is against the Russian world, then why do we need such a church?

    The Russian Orthodox Church is our church. The one with whom we live a thousand years. And it is the foundation of our Russian world.

    The foundation of the Russian world? Well, now it’s clear why in our country anyone who has reached the power immediately becomes a billionaire and forgets about the homeland and people, apparently they take an example from the patriarch ... Historical note: in the pre-Petrine documents that were not censored - the current church is called Orthodox, but the Orthodox, with which the people lived for 1000 years, through forests, but dispersed from foreign lands, from where it does not even show its nose.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 10 September 2018 12: 00
      -1
      At least one noticed this ... By the way, I have been in the "Old Believer villages" in the Urals and Siberia (geological youth), by the way, I encountered a very unpleasant attitude towards myself from the Old Believer fraternity - they will open the door for you, even though that you look far away "not a Caesar" ..... but their girls were still running to our camp ... oh, youth ... crying
    2. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 15: 58
      -1
      Quote: Enky
      Well, now it’s clear why in our country anyone who has reached the power immediately becomes a billionaire and forgets about the Motherland and the people, apparently they take an example from the patriarch ...

      Well duck affects atheistic education. There is no arguing against reflexes.
  39. akula
    akula 10 September 2018 11: 56
    +2
    Jesus was right when he said that cowardice and greed would destroy humanity.
  40. earloop
    earloop 10 September 2018 12: 27
    -1
    Everything is natural and objective. The "crack" has long been born. And without "treatment", according to the objective laws of nature, the "crack" spontaneously increased its "size" in time, up to the moment of the catastrophe, the split. The split occurred during the centuries-old arch-passive contemplation of a huge "host of doctors" behind the development of a "crack." If the healers had timely "healed" the "crack" formed by "blunting the tops" of the "crack" formed, then there would be no split.
  41. midshipman
    midshipman 10 September 2018 12: 54
    +6
    The Moscow Orthodox Church should first of all anathematize the tagged and the drunk. Really it was not clear back in 1990 what their policy would lead to.
  42. bogart047
    bogart047 10 September 2018 13: 41
    +3
    Orthodoxy, like Christianity, has long made slaves of people. This is opium that cannot be consumed. Look at how their elite lives - not all oligarchs live like that.
    1. security guard
      security guard 10 September 2018 14: 26
      -1
      dear, is someone forcing you into the Church forcibly? No? Well, shut up. We have a thousand years of Orthodoxy and no one considers himself to be slaves, but about the opium Ostap Suleiman Bertha Maria Bender Bey tell.
    2. EwgenyZ
      EwgenyZ 10 September 2018 16: 02
      0
      Quote: bogart047
      Orthodoxy, like Christianity, has long made slaves of people.

      I, as I understand it, paganism and atheism make a man free?
      1. bogart047
        bogart047 10 September 2018 16: 07
        0
        Well, at least they do not squander for insulting the feelings of special believers. Special - of course, who.
  43. security guard
    security guard 10 September 2018 14: 15
    -2
    stupid things. Bartholomew is not the pope of the Orthodox world, he is, in fact, no one, and there is no way to call him. their real patriarch in prison.
    we have the Cathedral Church, a Turkish citizen without a flock, has one vote;) the patriarchs of all churches must agree. primarily the Russian Orthodox Church, and so it’s just a clowning
    1. Zhurba
      Zhurba 10 September 2018 14: 39
      0
      And what then did Gundyaei go to Istanbul?
      baklava to eat?
      Not overeating, the stomach is normal.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 September 2018 19: 09
        +2
        and who is "Gundyaey" ?!
  44. 23424636
    23424636 10 September 2018 14: 25
    +1
    Ecumenism of Patriarch Cyril did his job. I remember in 2008, pockmarked Yushchenko invited Bartholomew to the 1020th anniversary of baptism, and there was now the late Patriarch Alexy 2, who had a tough stance on the actions of the crafty Bartholomew in Estonia, where a disadvantaged Turkish citizen (Patriarch Bartholomew) climbed by analogy as they did in Finland. Only God's providence and the strong position of Patriarch Alexy made the completely weak and weak-willed Metropolitan of Kiev Vladimir take a neutral position and delay this action. Now, Valtsman (Poroshenko), in instilling cIA curators, behaved completely unceremoniously and climbed into Orthodoxy through the support of anathema Denisenko. which had been deprived of all regalia and titles by the Orthodox Metropolitan Court for a long time because he lived without chastity and had children, that the monk was unacceptable and did all kinds of blasphemous actions. .Orthodox Ukraine know this and of course they will never come to schismatics to perform burial or baptism requirements, but those close to the authorities go to these places where Satan rules the ball and make themselves a toy in the villains ’villains. The Russian Orthodox Church has always been cautious of the monks of Constantinople after the Turkish conquest of Constantinople, seeing them as enemy slogans and did not let them into their lands after careful monitoring and verification. The only thing that can be negative is the complexity of the existence of the Russian Panthelimon Monastery on Mount Athos. Archimadrid Eulogius the Russian monk, miraculously ahead of the Ukrainian blackman in the elections, stands for Russia and the people. And may God help him. As for Patriarch Kirill - to forbid all monasteries to prayer for the health of Patriarch Bartholomew., That’s how Patriarch Alexy threatened the crafty resident of Constantinople (Istanbul) Bartholomew to sit quietly because he knows that from the opinion of the believers of Russia, a bell in his church (ringing only indoors) can break and beat a schismatic.
    1. Zhurba
      Zhurba 10 September 2018 14: 37
      0
      Kiryuha had to fulfill the promise, and the above lies.
    2. bogart047
      bogart047 10 September 2018 16: 09
      +2
      what kind of Santa Barbara is necessary) I even left attempts to sort out these ranks such as the Ecumenical, Galactic, and spatio-temporal patriarchs ... Why not immediately measure yachts and palaces?
  45. Zhurba
    Zhurba 10 September 2018 14: 36
    -2
    Quote: ver_
    ..not exactly that it is ours - in the 15th century this * our church * became with the Jewish deviation the will of the Vatican .. - we bow not to our gods, but to a crucified Jew ..

    And he is definitely a Jew !?
  46. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 September 2018 15: 11
    -1
    EwgenyZ,
    Fucking you theologian. crying
  47. Atenon
    Atenon 10 September 2018 15: 24
    +1
    Oh oh, just tell me what you are cracking for your loot. A person is free to believe in anyone, and then he will be rewarded for it. For whom, but for the church, I certainly would not have fought, especially "not kill" ©. The Orthodox Church itself then arose from the fact that the loot did not want to send.
  48. Atenon
    Atenon 10 September 2018 15: 29
    +1
    And now the patriarch will have to change from an armored mers to an armored Audi and buy a yacht less;)
  49. Graz
    Graz 10 September 2018 16: 23
    -1
    as comrade Stalin said
    -No human, no problem (s)
  50. Nikolay R
    Nikolay R 10 September 2018 16: 28
    +1
    Svateev,
    So the Pharisees of Christ just crucified with envy.