Military Review

FIU revealed a secret why Russia needs to raise the retirement age

158
According to the chairman of the board of the Pension Fund of Russia, Anton Drozdov, raising the retirement age in the context of improving the pension system is an extremely necessary measure. Drozdov explained that the budget of the Pension Fund is directly dependent on the funds that come from the federal budget. Today, the volume of such funds is about 3,3 trillion rubles, that is, more than a third of the budget of the PFR. The lack of reform in the pension system will inevitably lead to an increase in the transfer to the Pension Fund budget to 5 trillions of rubles. This step, in turn, will lead to a budget deficit of the PFR, which will not be able to provide a significant increase in future pensions, their purchasing power will be very low.


FIU revealed a secret why Russia needs to raise the retirement age

Photo on the official page of the FIU on Facebook: with a website of the FIU a person works on a gadget, on the keyboard of which the Cyrillic alphabet is missing


Recall that the process of raising the retirement age for the male population to 65 years, for the female population to 63 can be launched in the 2019 year and will be phased. The corresponding bill was introduced to the lower house of parliament, and in the fall its second and third, final, reading will be held. This document notes that the proposal to raise the retirement age will allow annually indexing pensions above the inflationary level, subject to the financial stability of the pension system as a whole.

Anton Siluanov, who heads the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation, also gleefully assesses the changes that will occur in the pension legislation if the bill is passed. He is confident that the improvement of the pension system in Russia will significantly increase the standard of living of its citizens, and this in turn will have a positive effect on the economic development of the state.

What prevents the use of other mechanisms for pension reform - without raising the bar for the retirement age - is not reported either by the FIU or the Finance Ministry.
Photos used:
https://www.facebook.com/PensionFondRF
158 comments
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  1. Loess
    Loess 15 August 2018 09: 15
    11
    What's the secret? This was originally stated ...
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 15 August 2018 09: 44
      59
      They plug the demographic hole of the 90s at the expense of, and again, the population.
      Social advertising with peppy old people and fairy tales that this is to raise pensions - that’s what lifted up. It’s impossible with us as with downs, it’s insulting, and when they insult us, there is an irresistible desire to give the scoreboard.
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 15 August 2018 10: 23
        27
        Quote: g1washntwn
        They plug the demographic hole of the 90s at the expense of, and again, the population.
        Social advertising with peppy old people and fairy tales that this is to raise pensions - that’s what lifted up. It’s impossible with us as with downs, it’s insulting, and when they insult us, there is an irresistible desire to give the scoreboard.

        Regarding the increase in pensions ...
        I retired under Yanukovych, spent 160 hohlobaks on my bread a month for my family, with the arrival of Poroshenko I spend 600 with a penny on the same, and my pension was increased by 420 hohlobaks. As they say - feel the difference.
        The same thing will happen to you with an increase in your pension, they will give a ruble, they will take two.
      2. Iline
        Iline 15 August 2018 10: 53
        +6
        Quote: g1washntwn
        there is an irresistible desire to give on the scoreboard.

        Before this action, for the purity of the experiment, I would like all these media to unanimously send their footsteps to the nearest polyclinics and hospitals and show a report on the contingent of patients in these institutions. More objective information will be obtained about "cheerful".
        1. Severok
          Severok 15 August 2018 18: 27
          +2
          Mass media hold the people for idiots, isn't it visible on advertising? And what about the content of "DarialTV" TV channel? Everything is perfectly visible. These scoundrels do not know how to live for all people, they live to fill their gut and serve those whom they consider superior to themselves. And this is both the media and dumas of all ranks, ministries of all stripes, all these funds and banks. All this riffraff.
      3. Comrade Kim
        Comrade Kim 15 August 2018 12: 58
        14
        They are with us not as "downs", but as with cattle being slaughtered.
        The state’s money by the most nostrils will be made up at an oil cost of 35% lower than the last 5-6 months! Where are the super-profits ?, from untouchable oligarchs. The colonial government, skillfully guided by the IMF, protects the interests of the oligarchs so skillfully that they are significantly enriched during the crisis and sanctions pressure.
        The people in their opinion new oil.
        The bloodsuckers will drink our blood until they swallow the last drop of blood of the last baby. They think women still have livestock that they will lead to slaughter. But the demographic catastrophe of the 90s crushed the whole nation completely. Even maternal capital can no longer help; mortality is confidently ahead of the birth rate.
        They took the bowels of the people by changing the constitution (under Ben Elzin), now they take away the very right to life!
        1. Sergey ippon
          Sergey ippon 16 August 2018 23: 53
          0
          The tax coped well with the work of the FIU.
          It’s time to kick for a while this whole rogue system - there is someone to track.
          Lard rubles will go as intended to pensioners.
      4. Shuttle
        Shuttle 15 August 2018 14: 04
        +9
        Interestingly, how did the damned scoops close that first demographic hole after the domestic one when the really best 9s with over millions did not return from the battlefields?
        1. Yasen Ping
          Yasen Ping 15 August 2018 16: 27
          +7
          and you read what Stalin did, very surprised, the population growth was huge ..
          1. Shuttle
            Shuttle 16 August 2018 14: 47
            0
            Quote: Clear Pin
            and you read what Stalin did, very surprised, the population growth was huge ..

            Thank you, I personally know. My question was rhetorical, ts for the good of all beings.
      5. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 15 August 2018 14: 36
        19
        Quote: g1washntwn
        It’s impossible with us as with downs, it’s insulting, and when they insult us, there is an irresistible desire to give the scoreboard.

        To begin with, it would be nice to go to the September elections and unanimously vote against candidates from United Russia for the Communist Party, whose legacy in the form of the existing retirement age is unicorns and are trying to eradicate. This, of course, is unlikely to greatly affect the final decision on raising the retirement age, but it will give a clear picture of what the people are against the EDRA anti-popular initiatives, which will tear the pants to the cross so that their candidate would pile up on the throne in the year 2024 .
        What prevents the use of other mechanisms for pension reform - without raising the bar for the retirement age - is not reported either by the FIU or the Finance Ministry.
        It is not what, but who interferes .... This is a vampire in the person of IMF Chairman Christine Logard, who, at consultations in May 2017, "sucked blood" from Siluanov and Nabiullina and recommended raising the retirement age for Russians, which they are now doing carrying delirium about the demographic problem. In the period from 1941 to 1945, the USSR lost from 25 to 28 million people, which was not a reason for the communists to raise the retirement age. Then, moreover, they did not have such oil and gas sales as the "bear cubs" have now, who privatized the subsoil of the Russian state and privatized the bulk of the income received from the sale of energy resources.
        1. yehat
          yehat 15 August 2018 14: 47
          10
          you are trying to put people into some casuistry.
          the existing retirement age is generally a topic that should not be touched
          The main problem is not a specific number - a pension of 50, 60 or 90 years.
          The main problem is the rules. The PF changed under Yeltsin is already a vicious system that cannot be tolerated, because she does not guarantee anything to anyone. And the pension system of the USSR, left for deputies and other powerful people - that’s what needs to be returned to EVERYONE.
          A specific age is an element of the system, which now does not exist at all. PF - this is not a pension system, this is its flawed imitation, but in fact a guide for quick dying. The government now has no calculated grounds for any age - at least 10 years to retire, which is 999, Medvedev logically reasoned that if they do not care what age, then if they increase, something will be saved.
          It is necessary to vote not for the retirement age, but for the return of the sane pension system, where 99% are satisfied, not 2 and not 5. I repeat, now there is no such system at all and I don’t understand what the pension contributions are for.
        2. hydrox
          hydrox 15 August 2018 16: 36
          +4
          So it is necessary to tackle the issue of nationalizing the raw materials through local authorities ... this was what the people raised in Soviet times and their own people's means, and today’s ghouls have no right to the property of the people. If you get a referendum on a pension robbery, then you can get a referendum on nationalization of the subsoil - then this income from raw materials will be enough for ALL pensions for the entire period of survival - we no longer need to: do not rest in the Emirates and do not buy yachts
      6. militia2
        militia2 15 August 2018 22: 59
        0
        Who are you going to give to the scoreboard? Previously, there was some Zurabov in the Pension Fund, then he was sent as ambassador to Ukraine, well, the thing came to the end of the war ...
        Now some kind of Drozdov, well, apparently, also that fruit.
      7. lopvlad
        lopvlad 16 August 2018 04: 58
        0
        Quote: g1washntwn
        They plug the demographic hole of the 90s at the expense of, and again, the population.


        the demographic hole as it opened in the 90s has still not been closed, but only growing.
        As for the PFR, the deficit of the "budget" of the pension fund will naturally decrease, because the majority will not live to see the cherished 65 years.
        Although you don’t know which is better. To die before 65 or live to retirement at 65 clearly realizing that at this age your pension will, in the best case, go in line for medicines and, at worst, with a newer duck under the bed, trash the life of all relatives and friends.
    2. Logall
      Logall 15 August 2018 09: 44
      18
      No secret, just slowly pushing through ... Form public opinion. After some time, people who simply want to raise their retirement age will be shown.

      And no prerequisites for increasing pensions are being created! If life expectancy really increases, then pensions will remain at the same level. And they will again have to "blow" into the ears of the people about new reforms ...
    3. credo
      credo 15 August 2018 10: 18
      28
      Quote: Less
      What's the secret? This was originally stated ...

      The secret was originally laid in an understatement. That is, to say that there will not be enough money for new pensioners, many of those who so zealously campaign for raising the retirement age have said more than once. And they have already said so much about demography that I want to cry. But only none of those state officials and the numerous "specialists" who serve them have mentioned that:
      - why not start by reducing unjustified government spending on irrelevant tasks, for example, on theaters in which they put on performances of dubious content for the state budget,
      - why not reduce the amount of payments to deputies of the State Duma and members of the Federation Council, and also not to carry out the same sequestration at the regional level,
      - why not stop spending on dubious experiments, for example, in the education system,
      - why not start deciding on the withdrawal of gray salaries from the underground, thereby increasing income to the personal income tax budget from firms paying these salaries,
      - And finally, what needs to be done so that the country's economy begins to grow with the current population, without raising the retirement age.
      The current "performance" of Drozdov and Siluanov from the same opera - many words, but few sentences.
      1. weksha50
        weksha50 15 August 2018 11: 59
        +5
        Quote: credo
        - And finally, what needs to be done to ensure that the country's economy begins to grow with the current population, without raising the retirement age.


        Ahem ... The other day (yesterday-the day before yesterday) I was quite surprised by the sound thoughts expressed by Kudrin ... According to him, one of the first things to be done to strengthen the economy is to reduce the number of officials at all levels by no less than a third ...
        I didn’t expect it ... And I gave him a plus sign in absentia ...
        PS That's someone who, and Kudrin in posturing to gain an empty rating has never been seen ...
        In general, I was pleasantly surprised ... hi
        1. SSR
          SSR 15 August 2018 12: 22
          +5
          Quote: weksha50
          Quote: credo
          - And finally, what needs to be done to ensure that the country's economy begins to grow with the current population, without raising the retirement age.


          Ahem ... The other day (yesterday-the day before yesterday) I was quite surprised by the sound thoughts expressed by Kudrin ... According to him, one of the first things to be done to strengthen the economy is to reduce the number of officials at all levels by no less than a third ...
          In general, I was pleasantly surprised ... hi

          There are few officials to reduce, the FIU needs to be well shaken up.
          Strange it turns out, the FIU collects so much money and they don’t just store this money, they put it into circulation, but it turns out that the money is spinning, but there is no money.
          Oh and shaggy paws graze there! In the adder PFR.
          1. weksha50
            weksha50 15 August 2018 12: 34
            +9
            Quote: SSR
            The FIU collects so much money and they don’t just store this money, but they put it into circulation, but it turns out that the money is spinning, but there is no money.


            Hmm ... "They are starting up." .. It depends on what ... It is not for nothing that the "great nanonets" Chubais asked to give him "for use" several billions from the RPF .... And he is not the only one ... They gave him, sawed, the other ... Here is the kirdyk pension savings ...
            Well, only the lazy did not write about the sky-high salaries of functionaries and officials from the PFR and their individual palaces ...
            Everything is visible to everyone ... Except for those for whom it is POSITIVE TO SEE AND TURBLE MEASURES FOR THE PUBLIC DUTY ... hi
            1. SSR
              SSR 15 August 2018 13: 47
              +1
              Quote: weksha50
              Quote: SSR
              The FIU collects so much money and they don’t just store this money, but they put it into circulation, but it turns out that the money is spinning, but there is no money.


              Hmm ... "They are starting up." .. It depends on what ... It is not for nothing that the "great nanonets" Chubais asked to give him "for use" several billions from the RPF .... And he is not the only one ... They gave him, sawed, the other ... Here is the kirdyk pension savings ...
              Well, only the lazy did not write about the sky-high salaries of functionaries and officials from the PFR and their individual palaces ...
              Everything is visible to everyone ... Except for those for whom it is POSITIVE TO SEE AND TURBLE MEASURES FOR THE PUBLIC DUTY ... hi

              What are we talking about hi
              I wonder who your statement minusanul?
              I would like to hear what you said wrong.

              Where does the pension fund go?
              krimchel.ru/...kuda...pensionnogo-fonda
              Pension Fund of personal significance. With a huge deficit of the Pension Fund, the team of Anton Drozdov leads a chic life. The budget of the Pension Fund of Russia is again in short supply: hundreds of billion rubles are not enough. Perhaps, in our country there is no other agency that would experience such a regular and acute shortage of funds as the FIU. ... 10% went to smaller firms. Experts do not exclude that these 10% could go to the head of the FIU. It is quite likely that there will be a “rollback” scheme, when advertising companies return part of the allocated funds to officials
              1. yehat
                yehat 15 August 2018 15: 02
                0
                I would like to hear what you said wrong.

                I didn't minus, but I can voice "what's wrong"
                on official public debt

                this is a design that is simply not there right now. There is a personal duty to the leader (otherwise he will be fired),
                there is an instruction (which is rarely adequate). There is a bank loan and a wife. That's it, "those" who are "supposed to" have no more debts. And there are absolutely no moral or ideological debts (like the international one in Afghanistan) - for ideology at the state level is prohibited.
            2. kuznec
              kuznec 16 August 2018 06: 10
              +4
              Well, I’m working in the FIU. The bosses in Moscow and the capitals of the regions are likely to kick in. And I, and all ordinary employees of the RFP, are not so hot. I am one of the highest paid in the team, and the salary is 22-25 tr. (25 times a quarter, if this boss doesn’t leave for the prize) At the same time, you often have to work on weekends and holidays. After - to the second job. On weekends - on the third. In the afternoon I am a system administrator, (as well as an electrician, locksmith, etc., because one man in the team) in the evening and on weekends - a blacksmith. You have to live. So the overwhelming majority of PFR employees live no better than other hard workers. And the bosses ... Here, as elsewhere - he creates preferences for himself.
              And lawlessness in the pension system does not depend on the FIU. Laws are adopted by the Duma, instructions by the Ministry of Labor. Here the devil himself will break in the intricacies of all TSU, coming from above. Often, different laws and regulations directly contradict each other. PFR workers themselves are also not enthusiastic about the complicated and complicated system. But we do not invent it, but try to fulfill it. And believe me, all employees of the PFR (except, of course, high authorities) are against the robbery of the people under the guise of another reform. They are going to rob us in the same way.
          2. hydrox
            hydrox 15 August 2018 16: 46
            +2
            If there is nowhere else to steal, then the liberal villains will steal from the housing and communal services and the PFR - from those few places where there is still money circulation: thieves cannot be reached in the military-industrial complex, and other sources are dry.
            For those who are not yet in the know: according to the pension position for civil servants, they are assigned a pension of up to 70% of the salary at the last place of work, which means that chinota receives exactly the same amount of pension as the remaining 40 million ordinary pence, and the number of pension officials is 8 times less.
        2. credo
          credo 15 August 2018 12: 27
          +1
          Quote: weksha50
          Ahem ... The other day (yesterday-the day before yesterday) I was quite surprised by the sound thoughts expressed by Kudrin ... According to him, one of the first things to be done to strengthen the economy is to reduce the number of officials at all levels by no less than a third ...
          I didn’t expect it ... And I gave him a plus sign in absentia ...
          PS That's someone who, and Kudrin in posturing to gain an empty rating has never been seen ...
          In general, I was pleasantly surprised ...

          I can’t say anything about the latest statements by A. Kudrin, but I think that if there was such a thing, it could be a banal “changing shoes on the fly” in view of V. Putin's long silence on the topic under discussion, as well as a possible referendum, given that proposals to reduce I have never heard from him officials.
          Of course, I want to believe that A. Kudrin, on his approach to his pension, was imbued with the needs of mere mortals and decided to change his position. I would like, but something tells me that this is not so.
          1. weksha50
            weksha50 15 August 2018 12: 36
            +1
            Quote: credo
            I would like, but something tells me that this is not so.


            Duc ... I said that I was soooooooo surprised by his statement ...
            It’s a pity, I didn’t make any bookmarks and there are no references to his statement ... But somehow I was not lying with my hands, my age is already far from the same ... hi
            1. Yuyuka
              Yuyuka 15 August 2018 17: 59
              +1
              Quote: weksha50
              Quote: credo
              I would like, but something tells me that this is not so.


              Duc ... I said that I was soooooooo surprised by his statement ...
              It’s a pity, I didn’t make any bookmarks and there are no references to his statement ... But somehow I was not lying with my hands, my age is already far from the same ... hi


              was-was yes
              here, doc -
              MOSCOW, June 7 - RIA Novosti. The Center for Strategic Research (CSR), whose council is chaired by ex-Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin, has proposed to reduce the number of civil servants by almost a third by 2024, the Kommersant newspaper writes with reference to the CSR project.

              RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/politics/20170607/1495984723.html
          2. hydrox
            hydrox 15 August 2018 16: 49
            0
            Kudrin wants to be the prime minister, he doesn’t give a damn about everything else, since Kristin Lagarde promised him support only if he succeeds in robbing the Russians in retirement.
        3. yehat
          yehat 15 August 2018 14: 55
          +2
          Kudrin is a populist and accountant. All his proposals have no real calculations, except for the balance sheet. Where did he get the third reduction? Who exactly to reduce?
          The State Duma? Or social workers? Or part of the ministries of education and health?
          Or maybe the extra ones work in customs? Or in the office of the president?
          What to do with the "shoot every third" order received?

          You understand that the best that will be done is that just a third of the performers will be fired, increasing unemployment one-time and retaining all the structures that hired extra staff (and which then will hire other people again). But most likely, they will do even worse - they will fire some, hire 2 times more than others and still do extra. staff reduction office with an additional budget.

          And do you really respect him for such "suggestions"?
          And if Zhirinovsky or Navalny offers to fight for all the good against all the bad, will you choose him as president?
          1. weksha50
            weksha50 15 August 2018 18: 00
            +1
            Quote: yehat
            And do you really respect him for such "suggestions"?


            Ahem ... But I did NOT HINT about real respect for Kudrin ...
            Reread my comment ... I say that I did not expect such a sensible offer from him ...
            PS I agree that the statement is populist - there is no specific affection for whom, where, when and why ... hi
        4. region58
          region58 15 August 2018 23: 51
          +1
          Quote: weksha50
          common sense expressed by Kudrin ...

          He was in vain ... Now, according to tradition, the states will swell by half, so that "if anything" is cut by a third. yes
      2. freddyk
        freddyk 15 August 2018 12: 02
        +9
        Quote: credo
        Quote: Less
        What's the secret? This was originally stated ...

        The secret was originally laid in an understatement. That is, to say that there will not be enough money for new pensioners, many of those who so zealously campaign for raising the retirement age have said more than once. And they have already said so much about demography that I want to cry. But only none of those state officials and the numerous "specialists" who serve them have mentioned that:
        - why not start by reducing unjustified government spending on irrelevant tasks, for example, on theaters in which they put on performances of dubious content for the state budget,
        - why not reduce the amount of payments to deputies of the State Duma and members of the Federation Council, and also not to carry out the same sequestration at the regional level,
        - why not stop spending on dubious experiments, for example, in the education system,
        - why not start deciding on the withdrawal of gray salaries from the underground, thereby increasing income to the personal income tax budget from firms paying these salaries,
        - And finally, what needs to be done so that the country's economy begins to grow with the current population, without raising the retirement age.
        The current "performance" of Drozdov and Siluanov from the same opera - many words, but few sentences.

        You did not mention, perhaps, the most profitable part. This is a progressive tax when the rich pay not 13, but up to 60% of their income. But the government does not want to strain, it’s easier for the common people to rip off.
        1. credo
          credo 15 August 2018 12: 40
          +2
          Quote: freddyk
          You did not mention, perhaps, the most profitable part. This is a progressive tax when the rich pay not 13, but up to 60% of their income.

          Given the fact that Belousov proposed to remove excess profits from the same individuals, raising the personal income tax at the same time is too risky for the government, since in this case the pension reform will receive a wave of dissatisfied not only from the common people, but also from the rich stratum of the country. I need some kind of compromise and I am for it.
        2. weksha50
          weksha50 15 August 2018 12: 40
          +2
          Quote: freddyk
          You did not mention, perhaps, the most profitable part. This is a progressive tax when the rich pay not 13, but up to 60% of their income. But the government does not want to strain, it’s easier for the common people to rip off.



          Uh-huh ... It's not for nothing that the "honorary resident" of Saransk (maybe I was wrong), then Mordovia, Komi and Mari EL broke away from their ParisV ... True, he is probably ... a bad person, and in Russia he does not want to pay even such meager taxes ...
          Well, the descendant of the Russian great-grandmother arrived ... Is it not for this purpose that he arrived - to get away from progressive taxation?
          It would be funny if it were not so sad ...
          In the same France, free medicine and free medical care exist just And due to progressive taxation (tax on wealth-luxury) ... hi
      3. Gnefredov
        Gnefredov 15 August 2018 12: 26
        0
        To take out the “gray salaries” from the underground, only to do worse and that’s why. We have so "magically" arranged taxation incl. and the "gray" (by local authorities) that doing absolutely white bookkeeping small business is numb in any way, that is, absolutely nothing. Not at all. For example, renting space, there is part by bank transfer and part by cache only. But this is so, the first example came across and there are many such examples. If you try to output gray schemes to white (under existing conditions), the company simply closes because no one will work at a loss. As a result, new unemployed people will also be added to the absence of tax deductions. So it’s not so simple.
    4. venik
      venik 15 August 2018 14: 24
      +8
      Quote: Less
      What's the secret? This was originally stated ...

      ===============
      It's not about the "statements" ..... The thing is that under the slogan of "pension reform" - PROMOTE - just "raising the retirement age" ..... And "reform" - there is no such thing !!!! !
      WHAT is needed to reform the "pension system" ??? Let me share my own "thoughts" ......
      - First - to stimulate retirement2 as late as possible (for example - you retire at 60 - "coefficient - 1.0 !, at 63 - 1,2 .... at 65 - 1,3 !!!!
      - Second - TO PROVIDE people of "pre-retirement age" - Jobs !!! How? It's very simple !!! The "firm" employs (for example!) 5% of employees over the age of 50 - Taxes -100% .... If - 7% of "age" - a tax exemption .... If less than 5% - "tax press ".... (numbers of course" from the ceiling "- the PRINCIPLE itself is important !!!)
      The third - start already NOW to introduce the "ACCUMULATIVE" pension system (for those who came to work THIS year !!!). Set, for example, the minimum rate of contributions to the OWN (PERSONAL !!!) pension fund (well, let's say - at least - 5% of the monthly salary, and the maximum - AS YOU WANT !!! !) ..... In this case, you can retire at 50! Only before reaching the "state retirement age" - you will have to spend money from your "personal account"!)
      ========
      This is certainly not all ....
      But you can already "throw boulders" ..... belay
      PS Just think so !!!!
      PPS A month later - to issue a pension .... Our "" - also decided to raise the pension .... Maybe I will have time ....... crying
      1. igorbrsv
        igorbrsv 15 August 2018 15: 47
        0
        Stimulation is already there - this is experience. More seniority more pension. Then working pensioners need to keep a pension. This has already happened. But with a low salary, it is easier for a pensioner to receive a pension. In general, they did not bring anything to mind from what they started.
  2. Nychego
    Nychego 15 August 2018 09: 16
    58
    Raising the retirement age is a compensation for damage from management inefficiency due to the robbery of the people.
    No more and no less.
    1. Sadko88
      Sadko88 15 August 2018 09: 46
      -7
      What is the robbery? In simple terms, then the country's employers are discounted into the pension fund at the expense of their own funds, and not at the expense of the employee. And on retirement of citizens of Russia there is an accrual from this common boiler. Moreover, unscrupulous employers issuing salaries in envelopes and not paying taxes in full. So they rob, by the way, people, avoiding taxation wink
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 15 August 2018 10: 04
        +5
        Quote: Sadko88
        So they rob, by the way, people, avoiding taxation

        And you will talk with entrepreneurs. I also somehow with my boss bazar why he does not have heating. So he said that if the heating is done, then it will go bankrupt. Taxes are their mother.
        1. Sadko88
          Sadko88 15 August 2018 10: 36
          +3
          I communicate with them regularly. smile
          No heating - no working conditions. Workers will be on sick leave. A mediocre leader or a business didn’t do that
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 15 August 2018 11: 01
            +3
            Sorry of course, but what you write is a solid theory. You can communicate with anyone, but it will not make you closer to business people. It must be so, it must be that way ... As they say it was smooth on paper
            1. yehat
              yehat 15 August 2018 12: 59
              +1
              we somehow strange understand business. Business - this is not to cut down on quick dough, but to create and drag your business stably, developing it. This is a business. And in our country, a businessman is engaged not in business, but in fraud. This is me about heating. Overhead costs are an important thing, but necessary and you need to be able to optimize them. This is the art of business, and not the ability to take off heating. For example, not a wooden house of 200m2 can be built for 1.5-2 million, but you can not fit into 10. That's the difference. And most of our managers are absolute mediocrity in optimizing processes, but enterprising and impudent. Our boss loves to hire a student secretary and after a probationary period dismiss him without a salary, but does not like to do paperwork. business ...
              1. Dangerous
                Dangerous 15 August 2018 13: 46
                +3
                Well, become the boss yourself, create a socially-oriented enterprise so that everyone works in comfort, while also bringing profit!
                Haiting is easy from the side. On the other hand, no one forces them to work under conditions that the employee cannot accept.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 August 2018 05: 12
            0
            Quote: Sadko88
            No heating - no working conditions. Workers will be on sick leave. A mediocre leader or a business didn’t do that

            He is sticking with us. On a par with everyone.
        2. venik
          venik 15 August 2018 17: 44
          +1
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          I also somehow with my boss bazar why he does not have heating. So he said that if the heating is done, then it will go bankrupt. Taxes are their mother.

          ==========
          Yes, "taxes" are not so terrible as "greed" and "hoarding" of "entrepreneurs" ...... Have seen already this !!!! Other "for a penny - choke"......
          Why go far? Half a year ago, my wife and I went to the "firm store" "Roshen"(belongs to the" guarantor of the constitution "!!) - to buy sweets for granddaughters ..... EVERYTHING turned out to be EXPIRED !!!! With a" gray bloom "!!!!! am
          So much for your "brand store" ..... Now more "Roshen" products - DO NOT BUY !!!!! Let YOURSELF "taste" !!! (or even better, m- SHOOT !!!)
      2. sabakina
        sabakina 15 August 2018 10: 32
        +4
        Sadko88 and what do you have in the ticket that there is no line with the digit 13%?
        1. Sadko88
          Sadko88 15 August 2018 10: 41
          +1
          You understand, this is not your money. Yours will be those that the state will accrue after you retire. And maybe you will pay money, not the money accrued by your employer, but the employer of the manager Vasya or someone else smile
          1. forty-eighth
            forty-eighth 15 August 2018 11: 49
            +3
            Quote: Sadko88
            You understand, this is not your money. Yours will be those that the state will accrue after you retire. And maybe you will pay money, not the money accrued by your employer, but the employer of the manager Vasya or someone else smile

            If the employer pays mandatory contributions, then it does not at all follow that this is his money. This amount directly affects the size of wages, or rather they are interdependent. Consequently, if these contributions were less, the employer could send more money to the employee’s salary without any harm to himself, this means the money is not the employer, but the employee, and the employer only pays for it to the funds.
            By your logic, it turns out that the seller, and not the buyer, pays VAT, excises on excisable goods are the manufacturer, not the buyer. The buyer that unfastened as much as it should and walk Vasya ... And the budget, apparently, is replenished from the nightstand. Not for people's money, right?
      3. Senior manager
        Senior manager 15 August 2018 10: 49
        11
        Robbery of the people - simply because the government wants to take money where it is easier, without bothering to organize a system of control over unscrupulous employers (salary in envelopes), spending funds on various projects (embezzlement), tax evasion. The head of the Federal Tax Service reports to the President how he works well, tax collection has increased by a decent percentage, which means that before that the work was extremely inefficient. And such reserves of replenishment of the treasury are enough, but it is easier to tear off the people. It’s easier to find a working prime minister who can organize WORK. Pension reform is underway in Russia, God forbid, but about 40 years old, and here you can already ask the President a question - HOW MUCH CAN I REFORM THE PENSION SYSTEM?
        1. Sadko88
          Sadko88 15 August 2018 10: 56
          +1
          The state is fighting, but irresponsible citizens themselves cover these. Until they are deceived. The main problem of corruption is in those who offer to agree, and not in those who take it. Many people themselves sign an employment contract with a minimum wage depriving them of filling the pension fund. Thus participating in pension reform
          1. voffchik7691
            voffchik7691 15 August 2018 11: 44
            10
            Sadko88
            "Many people themselves sign an employment contract with the minimum wage, depriving the retirement fund of the fund."

            Man, where do you live? In our country, most factories were closed down, you come to get a job (where you haven’t closed it yet), and they tell you in our envelopes ... And either work and get your salary like that, or go out!
            1. The comment was deleted.
        2. yehat
          yehat 15 August 2018 11: 55
          +6
          the salary in envelopes is not because the employers are all so angry, but because to the 13% tax, there is a monstrous trailer for social contributions, which in total gives not 13, but 13 + 28.5% = 41.5. Moreover, this rate comes from all - even the poorest. And in all of Europe, tax incentives are such that the poor do not have a tax at all - for those who like to refer to European tax rates.
          Add to this the indirect costs of paying high interest on loans to current assets of enterprises, which often pay ZP, which further reduces the payroll of employees by 8 percent.
          those. formal 13% of personal income tax turns into about 50% of mandatory levies.
          And this is a completely different matter. The tax system is extremely harsh precisely to the poorest, which is why the salary in envelopes is a survival algorithm in spite of the system, which actually takes half from a low salary.
        3. yehat
          yehat 15 August 2018 13: 03
          +3
          according to the data voiced by Khazin, the tax authorities increased the collection rate in absolutely brutal ways, sharply complicating the life and conduct of private businessmen, bankrupt quite still living enterprises. Refundable tax payments - complicate the refund procedure. Many measures to improve "performance" are sheer window dressing.
      4. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 15 August 2018 11: 30
        +6
        Quote: Sadko88
        What is the robbery? In simple terms, then the country's employers are discounted into the pension fund at the expense of their own funds, and not at the expense of the employee. And on retirement of citizens of Russia there is an accrual from this common boiler. Moreover, unscrupulous employers issuing salaries in envelopes and not paying taxes in full. So they rob, by the way, people, avoiding taxation wink


        again these profanities about the guilt of employers! in simple terms - what are the rules, so are the results. What do you expect the employer to work for "thank you" ?? and under such a system of taxation, those who produce something suffer the most. The most important robbers are those who are "salary in envelopes"? - laughing

        there is a wonderful recipe for s / pl in envelopes - to transfer all deductions to those who GET this salary. Sense to conceal to the employer how much he pays? Then we’ll see how you are ready to pay taxes.

        For example (in simple terms) - the employer pays for you to all sorts of funds 10000, salary 10000 and 20000 in an envelope. Total - 40000. All this money gives the employee and submits a report on this amount to the tax. Everything is transparent, but then the most interesting thing - the employee CAM chooses - is it worth paying and where. But there is already infa about him and it will not be possible to get away from the tax. I agree that this is not an option for everyone, but for the majority of small and medium-sized businesses, this would allow them to get away from "gray" salaries. hi
        1. yehat
          yehat 15 August 2018 11: 46
          +6
          if you transfer the payment of deductions to citizens, then their demand will sharply increase regarding the expenditure of deductible funds - both in terms of deductions and for the funds themselves.
          For example, when a particular citizen deducts 10 tr for 10 years. every month in PF, he will have a question - I PERSONALLY put more than a million in PF, and all the neighbors did the same - where is the money for retirement? And notes for the court will appear on the hands of money transfers. And it will be easier to prove their experience. This will greatly change budget policy and the authorities do not need it.
          1. Yuyuka
            Yuyuka 15 August 2018 12: 06
            +1
            Quote: yehat
            if you transfer the payment of deductions to citizens, then their demand will sharply increase regarding the expenditure of deductible funds - both in terms of deductions and for the funds themselves.
            For example, when a particular citizen deducts 10 tr for 10 years. every month in PF, he will have a question - I PERSONALLY put more than a million in PF, and all the neighbors did the same - where is the money for retirement? And notes for the court will appear on the hands of money transfers. And it will be easier to prove their experience. This will greatly change budget policy and the authorities do not need it.


            good voooot ... where the dogs rummaged wassat Well, the citizens-workers will have to sort things out not with the employer-bloodsucker, but ... it's even scary to think! ... (to the authorities) After all, then, as "Dear Leonid Ilyich" said, "We will all see naked jo ... wow! !! .. ah ... the hard truth! " wink
        2. Sadko88
          Sadko88 15 August 2018 12: 01
          +2
          From any system of taxation, rent and other things, the final price suffers, and not the employer. To entrust the employee with his pension - to risk that the state will have to maintain it anyway upon retirement. But at the expense of those who did not trust or introduce a separate budget expenditure item? Where is the guarantee that he will not immediately go to the casino with these deductions or invest in a private pension fund that will burst? And then, if the employee agrees to work for 20.000 p. Why should I pay him 40.000? laughing
          1. Yuyuka
            Yuyuka 15 August 2018 17: 49
            0
            Quote: Sadko88
            From any system of taxation, rent and other things, the final price suffers, and not the employer. To entrust the employee with his pension - to risk that the state will have to maintain it anyway upon retirement. But at the expense of those who did not trust or introduce a separate budget expenditure item? Where is the guarantee that he will not immediately go to the casino with these deductions or invest in a private pension fund that will burst? And then, if the employee agrees to work for 20.000 p. Why should I pay him 40.000? laughing


            you didn't read it very carefully - my proposal is directed primarily against "gray" salaries. In my example, 40000 is your total cost per employee, only you do not divide by "this is for you", but this is "taxes", now this is HIS problem of caring about your future. And regarding the risks of the state in terms of content ... so these are the problems of the state - why are all these controlling bodies "and digitalization on our horse, and there will be even morelaughing Salary card - and all the employee's income is transparent, up to automatic deductions to different funds of the minimum required payments. Why are many in the "gray zone"? Yes, because with our state to have your own business = you need to have an economic education, and that is not a guarantee against problems. For this, an external accountant or a state accountant is involved. This is true for small businesses, for large campaigns everything is easier from this side. hi
      5. kitt409
        kitt409 15 August 2018 21: 43
        0
        If in even simpler language, then these deductions are at the expense of the money that an employee could receive
      6. militia2
        militia2 15 August 2018 23: 10
        0
        Not quite so at the expense of employers who are throwing their money into the pension fund. The employer, as a rule, does not print money himself in order to "throw off" them. The employer simply does not pay the employee for all his labor and sometimes sends part of the money saved in this way to various funds, incl. in PF.
  3. BAI
    BAI 15 August 2018 09: 16
    31
    I want to be an 80 year old man! An old man who hangs girls on his neck! An old man who takes prizes in sports acrobatics competitions! An old man who travels abroad several times a year! An old man whose work is important and valuable to society. An old man, to which employers are in line with offers of prestigious high-paying jobs! I want to be an old man from the TV screen!
    1. HAM
      HAM 15 August 2018 09: 38
      21
      Your place has already been taken by Seluanov and Gref, so hold on .....
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 15 August 2018 18: 36
        +1
        Quote: HAM
        Your place has already been taken by Seluanov and Gref, so hold on .....

        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Lord! What problems? You just have to live up to 80!

        "82-year-old mother of Viacheslav Volodin has registered a new company"
        https://www.znak.com/2018-08-13/82_letnyaya_mat_vyacheslava_volodina_zaregistrirovala_novuyu_firmu
        wink
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 15 August 2018 10: 05
      +4
      Lord! What are the problems? You just have to live to be 80 and you will have everything! Yes Yes ! The Pension Fund "does not matter": whether in reality, in a dream, in a marasmic delirium ...! tongue
      PS A well-known anecdote: "Doctor! I'm 70, but I can't! And my neighbor is 75, and he says he can!" Doctor: Well, you say you can!"
    3. sabakina
      sabakina 15 August 2018 10: 37
      +1
      BAI, if you} {} {OT @ BUCH, you spit on the TV once. In this reality ...
  4. Altona
    Altona 15 August 2018 09: 25
    10
    Another bredyatina. From the series "No money, but you hold on".
  5. krops777
    krops777 15 August 2018 09: 25
    17
    What prevents the use of other mechanisms for pension reform - without raising the bar for the retirement age - is not reported either by the FIU or the Finance Ministry.


    Religion does not allow, but how can one tear the people into three skins to ensure their beautiful life?
    72,3 million working Russians with an average Russian salary of 35,8 thousand rubles. (data for 2017) would have to contribute about 8,8 trillion rubles to the pension system. insurance premiums based on 100% collection. In practice, only 4,48 trillion rubles and plus 2 trillion from the budget go to the PFR budget. rub. While the payment of insurance pensions requires only 6,3 trillion rubles.
    1. igorbrsv
      igorbrsv 15 August 2018 10: 13
      +4
      Then where are the remaining 4 trl.? Black salaries are clearly not taken into account in the Rosstat data and could not affect the statistics. Where is the 100% collection?
      1. Logall
        Logall 15 August 2018 10: 20
        12
        Quote: igorbrsv
        Then where are the remaining 4 trl.?

        In the country of unfulfilled lessons (promises)! That's where Rosstat's nonsense is revealed ... Or they say that this is just an error ?!
      2. reservist
        reservist 15 August 2018 10: 53
        +1
        imho, while regression taxation exists for social taxes, there will never be 100% collection
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 15 August 2018 14: 36
        -2
        And 4 trillion in the hands of at least 15 million tax evaders.
        1. Andrey Panov
          Andrey Panov 15 August 2018 18: 49
          0
          Is their salary among the average? Who counted her?
  6. fridge
    fridge 15 August 2018 09: 27
    24
    Maybe you need to build factories ?, there will be deduction jobs, maybe you need to stop stealing ?, but nothing is done, so the easiest way to rob the defenseless, they are afraid of touching their oligarchs, like bankers. In the USSR, there was enough money for everything and for retirement and social programs and education, and even around the world they were distributing money, they were distributing it, because it is not possible to return it. It follows that the current government is either incapable or deliberately aggravates the situation, apparently preparing the people for a social explosion, this is called structureless crowd control.
    1. d1975
      d1975 15 August 2018 09: 39
      +9
      I am personally against construction, it is necessary to restore and plant as much as possible, to plant more for theft and deception of the previous authorities, then there will be order. All that is new is cut, and cut again. Yes, there is an exception, exceptions and nothing more. yes .
      1. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 15 August 2018 10: 00
        +3
        "Yes, count them!" (from)
      2. sabakina
        sabakina 15 August 2018 10: 44
        +2
        I agree, we even have Chinese hammers in the store!
      3. Genry
        Genry 15 August 2018 11: 04
        -4
        Quote: d1975
        and plant, plant more for theft

        You remind ...
    2. Genry
      Genry 15 August 2018 11: 10
      0
      Quote: refrigerator
      Maybe you need to build factories ?, there will be deduction jobs, maybe you need to stop stealing?

      Well, build 100100 factories and arrange them in offshore ....?
      The Constitution must be changed so that the Central Bank becomes state-owned and gives loans up to 2%. Then no one will run for cheap loans offshore ...
      Yes, a lot of things still need to be corrected in it.
    3. militia2
      militia2 15 August 2018 23: 21
      0
      The current government honestly told you: "There is no money!" She said!
      The current government honestly told you that you need a "breakthrough"? She said!
      How to make this leap? If we had any colonies, or, for example, start some kind of war on foreign territory, put someone with someone, then maybe the means for a "breakthrough" would be found. But there are none!
      Therefore, "Hold on!" (it was also honestly said by the authorities), this is just the beginning!
  7. Alex66
    Alex66 15 August 2018 09: 29
    +9
    There is no money, the same is a secret to me, but why didn’t they start from the top (from ministers, officials, deputies, they don’t realize that there is no money) but from the bottom?
    1. NikolaiN
      NikolaiN 15 August 2018 09: 38
      +6
      So after all, the fish rots from the head ... but they clean it from the tail ...
    2. krops777
      krops777 15 August 2018 10: 14
      +3
      There is no money, the same is a secret to me, but why didn’t they start from the top (from ministers, officials, deputies, they don’t realize that there is no money) but from the bottom?


      Well, by God, the parasites are the last to die. wink
  8. rum
    rum 15 August 2018 09: 30
    -11 qualifying.
    I’m reading messages .. and the impression is that Russia has lost a lot in your faces ....
    1. Non liberoid Russian
      Non liberoid Russian 15 August 2018 09: 35
      +8
      but Ukraine has found a lot in yours ...
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 15 August 2018 09: 47
      +6
      Quote: Rum
      I’m reading messages .. and the impression is that Russia has lost a lot in your faces ....

      What kind of Russia have you lost, Seryoga?
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 15 August 2018 09: 32
    +7
    What prevents the use of other mechanisms for pension reform - without raising the bar for retirement age
    ... A bad dancer, legs, a footballer, a field and an opponent ... And then ... it's hard to say ... what's stopping ... although there are suspicions ..
  10. Placebo
    Placebo 15 August 2018 09: 40
    +3
    This is how to live the whole life of notorious villains ... to rob, to slander ... well, would be immortal ...
  11. tap
    tap 15 August 2018 09: 40
    18
    "The budget of the Pension Fund directly depends on the funds that come from the federal budget." And we thought that citizens deduct from their salaries. By the way, your ministerial salaries are also from the budget, can you correct them too?
    1. igorbrsv
      igorbrsv 15 August 2018 10: 20
      +6
      With this, and it was necessary to begin. I don't remember from their salaries and gold (when an official who has worked for five years is paid money until the end of his life). Has anyone in the Duma suggested this? Well the "opposition" is there .. I have not heard
  12. bald
    bald 15 August 2018 09: 45
    13
    --- "... raising the retirement age will allow annually indexing pensions above the inflationary level, subject to the financial stability of the pension system as a whole." --- Wouldn't it be fairer to index pensions, if inflation requires it, etc., at the expense of our natural resources - oil - gas, etc., or did they not deserve what should rightfully belong to them? - Stop robbing people.
    1. Genry
      Genry 15 August 2018 11: 17
      +2
      Quote: bald
      But will it not be fairer to index pensions, if inflation and others require it, at the expense of our natural resources - oil - gas, etc.

      It is necessary in the Constitution to return an article on the belonging of natural wealth to the people!
      Without this, you can cry forever ....
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 15 August 2018 17: 23
        +1
        Quote: Genry
        It is necessary in the Constitution to return an article on the belonging of natural wealth to the people!

        This is bullshit, we must return the article on the belonging of the people to the means of production.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 August 2018 14: 43
      -5
      And why these natural resources should belong to the whole people - only part of the people is engaged in: extraction, processing, storage, transportation and sale of resources. For the rest there will be no freebie.
  13. I am silent I am silent
    I am silent I am silent 15 August 2018 09: 45
    +7
    Our officials have no way to live more modestly, and they don’t want to strain their minds where to get the money! Why, when you can stupidly take them away from the people under a plausible pretext, telling how we will immediately begin to live better in all the media.
  14. Million
    Million 15 August 2018 09: 49
    +5
    Any power differs only in fair distribution of income ...
    "Channel One paid journalist Vasily Utkin almost 800 thousand for commenting on one match of the 2018 FIFA World Cup."
    Is there justice here?
    1. bk316
      bk316 15 August 2018 10: 12
      +5
      Any power differs only in fair distribution of income ...

      Yes, there is still no management efficiency.
      And justice is a relative concept.
      Let’s talk about me.
      My contributions to the FIU exceed 60 thousand per month, that is, more than the AVERAGE SALARY in the country.
      And I will receive a pension like everyone else (well, a little more). THIS IS TRUE?
      1. Million
        Million 15 August 2018 10: 28
        +2
        in some cases, the relative concept may be, but in the case above, it’s quite specific (minus not mine)
        1. bk316
          bk316 15 August 2018 11: 50
          +3
          Well, I don’t want to talk about Utkin. You know this in the morning about such people - to spoil your mood. sad My plus sign bully
      2. reservist
        reservist 15 August 2018 11: 09
        +2
        Quote: bk316
        My contributions to the FIU exceed 60 thousand per month, that is, more than the AVERAGE SALARY in the country.

        Well, I'm glad for your salary
        but I think that you deduct little, because the regression scale for calculating contributions to the FIU is evil

        And I will receive a pension like everyone else (well, a little more). THIS IS TRUE?

        if 60 thousand were deducted all their lives, then a pension of 34 thousand is not fair
        1. bk316
          bk316 15 August 2018 11: 55
          +3
          if 60 thousand were deducted all their lives, then a pension of 34 thousand is not fair

          More than 15 years .... That is, if it were not for regression, then I would have deducted more than 10 lyam and still I would. I certainly won’t live so much to get them back, even if not at 30 but at 60 there will be a pension. So will someone else eat vodka with my money. And I think this is unfair.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 15 August 2018 12: 11
            -2
            Quote: bk316
            I think this is unfair

            So you are also for the amendments to the Constitution? About the "welfare state" - it is necessary to completely remove from there, did I understand you correctly?

            Pensions, they (so far) are paid not only to those who have worked out their own. There are also disability pensions, and for other things, ahem ... reasons ...
            1. bk316
              bk316 15 August 2018 12: 21
              +1
              So you are also for the amendments to the Constitution? About the "welfare state" - it is necessary to completely remove from there, did I understand you correctly?

              I believe that the pension should be proportional to wages and, accordingly, deductions. And yes, those who received a penny should receive pennies.
              As for disability pension, it should generally be paid from the budget or according to insurance schemes, and not from my pension contributions. If there is not enough personal income tax for this, raise it.

              In other words, in short, I believe that old-age pensions should be strictly personal and funded. By disability - insurance. Preferential - purely budget.

              All that is required of the state in this scheme is to ensure long-term investment conditions. And it will not be necessary to establish the retirement age, invent points, etc.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 15 August 2018 14: 49
                0
                Well, the state will leave a social pension out of the situation - and save the children yourself, a special accumulative labor account in the bank, from which it will not be possible to withdraw money until retirement age, fewer problems for the state and budget - the Pension Fund can be reduced by 2/3 , the budget will no longer have to patch a 2 trillion hole every year.
              2. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 15 August 2018 15: 34
                +1
                Quote: bk316
                All that is required of the state in this scheme is to ensure long-term investment conditions

                Yeah ... just laughing
                You are a competent person, and you probably understand how difficult it is.

                Quote: bk316
                I believe that old-age pensions should be strictly personal-funded

                We tried already, it didn't take off. Again, we returned to the scheme that was under the Union - a worker pays a pensioner. The rest is known request

                Okay. I understand you, the idea is good (s), undoubtedly ... but, IMHO, in our realities ... is difficult to implement.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 15 August 2018 18: 22
                  +1
                  understand how difficult it is.

                  I understand that only recently I began to notice that people are divided into 2 categories, someone does things, someone justifies why it is impossible to do them. And what’s most striking sometimes they spend more effort on this than on the matter itself ....
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 15 August 2018 20: 13
                    0
                    Quote: bk316
                    I understand that only recently I began to notice that people are divided into 2 categories, someone does things, someone justifies why it is impossible to do them

                    Well, it certainly doesn’t depend on me or on you

                    Quote: bk316
                    provide long-term investment conditions

                    So, why are you here about the "two categories" charged, I'm sorry, somehow misunderstood. As, however, and the subsequent

                    Quote: bk316
                    ... spend more on this than on the cause itself

                    PS: questions, in general, rhetorical hi
                    1. bk316
                      bk316 16 August 2018 10: 43
                      +1
                      PS: questions, in general, rhetorical hi

                      Yes, I will answer, although they are rhetorical.
                      I do not support all sorts of conspiracy theories of raising the retirement age.
                      In my opinion, everything was just before the economic block was a simple dilemma:
                      - Either follow the path that I described, but it will take a long time to work hard on long investments, find funds for beneficiaries, change insurance legislation;
                      or offer to raise the retirement age and spend effort on the rationale that this is the only possible solution, what are they doing now
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 August 2018 14: 35
                        0
                        Quote: bk316
                        I do not support any conspiracy theories of raising the retirement age

                        It's nice. I also.

                        Quote: bk316
                        what are they doing now

                        By the way, the Chinese, contrary to popular belief, are also going to raise this return belay

              3. Vard
                Vard 15 August 2018 18: 11
                +1
                Disability pension ... this is 1500 for the second group ... everything else is the insurance part ... depending on the length of service ...
          2. reservist
            reservist 16 August 2018 11: 27
            0
            Quote: bk316
            So will someone else eat vodka with my money. And I think this is unfair.

            and if this someone fought in "hot spots" so that you could "forge capital"?
  15. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 15 August 2018 09: 50
    0
    http://netbespredelu.ru/?p=15828
    This is our money. We must look for reserves there. They must be reduced ruthlessly ... good
    We have -121 people, in the comparable population of Japan-600 ... am
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 August 2018 20: 17
      0
      We compared "Elephant" and "Nutria".
  16. Pravodel
    Pravodel 15 August 2018 09: 59
    +5
    The problem of the funds of the pension fund is that the Pension Fund is not at the age of retirees, but in the number of preferential pensions, in the number of beneficiaries retiring at 30,40,45 years and receiving a pension far from 3000-5000 rubles / month.
    Look how many military pensioners we have at 35-45, how many ballerinas, ballerinas retired in 32, and everything becomes clear. If you send to retirement, for example, immediately after completion of an institute or other educational institution, then the entire budget of Russia will not be enough to pay pensions.
    To begin to deal with pensions is necessary not with raising the retirement age, but with the elimination of preferential pensions, retirement by old age without reaching the appropriate age.
    What and how to do here?
    Citizens who have earned a preferential pension for their professional affiliation should receive this pension when they reach the total retirement age: 55 and 60 years.
    Before reaching the general retirement age, preferential pensioners must undergo professional reorientation and continue to work in accordance with their physical abilities: a ballerina cannot dance anymore, even if she does not dance, but no one forbids her to become a saleswoman or mathematician and earn a second civil pension in accordance with her work , reached the military, policeman, etc. 45 years of service, earned a military pension, and nothing prevents him from becoming a manager, and earn a civilian pension, for example, as the head of the HOA, ZHEKA, teacher, etc. Let them retrain and work until they reach the general retirement age accepted in Russia. Earned a doctor, teacher, etc. a long service pension, let him change his profession and continue to work, earning himself another pension, which he will receive when he reaches the total retirement age.
    If the preferential pensioner completely loses the opportunity to work, then he receives disability and he is assigned a disability pension. At the same time, the old-age pension should be paid in accordance with the general rules: upon reaching the general retirement age.
    With this approach, pension reform will be supported by the people as fair and will not cause rejection and opposition of the people. But whether liberals in government need this. It might be better once again to rob your people ...

    "People-State-Fatherland" - this is the slogan of every Russian patriot: a strong state, a united nation, a prosperous Fatherland that cannot be broken by internal and external enemies.
    1. Sadko88
      Sadko88 15 August 2018 10: 08
      +5
      The logic seems to be correct, but have you read the rationale for preferential pensions?
      1. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 15 August 2018 11: 52
        +4
        Quote: Sadko88
        The logic seems to be correct, but have you read the rationale for preferential pensions?


        and what is it right about? belay a superficial look of the average person ... the life expectancy of teachers is on average less, and the other beneficiaries, if you take it, have a privilege not from scratch ... the problem of PF in its very existence in this form and the rules by which its financial component is formed. Bullshit when the size of the pension depends on the number of employees! it turns out 10 people without education, digging a foundation pit for a week and receiving a salary of 100000 re better than one professional excavator who did the same job in one day and received 5000 re ?? fool because he deducted 20 times less to the PF, in proportion to his salary! well, then, probably, you should not talk about boring (for our government) things - such as labor productivity ... to no avail ... request
    2. Colonel
      Colonel 15 August 2018 12: 15
      +2
      reached military, policeman etc. 45 years of service, earned a military pension, and nothing prevents him from becoming a manager, and earn a civilian pension, for example, as the head of the HOA, ZHEKA, teacher, etc.

      I will not advise you to “achieve” and then “become”, because it is useless. Do you know how you differ from the talkers indicated in the article? Only because they (talkers) operate with concepts that are close to each person, and you climb into areas that neither you nor the majority of the population have a clue about.
      1. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 15 August 2018 17: 51
        0
        Quote: colonel
        reached military, policeman etc. 45 years of service, earned a military pension, and nothing prevents him from becoming a manager, and earn a civilian pension, for example, as the head of the HOA, ZHEKA, teacher, etc.

        I will not advise you to “achieve” and then “become”, because it is useless. Do you know how you differ from the talkers indicated in the article? Only because they (talkers) operate with concepts that are close to each person, and you climb into areas that neither you nor the majority of the population have a clue about.


        good I won’t even add anything!
    3. akunin
      akunin 15 August 2018 12: 38
      +2
      To begin to deal with pensions is necessary not with raising the retirement age, but with the elimination of preferential pensions, retirement by old age without reaching the appropriate age.
      I am a "beneficiary" (radiation, lead, acid, alkali), the equipment has not changed, the intensity of labor has increased threefold, but at the next assessment, the harmful working conditions disappeared altogether (the assessor said: "I will write as the boss needs it"). people quit instantly, and no one wants to go to work (minus a preferential pension, 15% harm, three weeks of vacation), we are retired, we work three together for seven (they don’t pay salaries for seven, because we cannot be processed under the labor code) retire only. It is not the salary that is holding back, but the inability to live on pension.
    4. kitt409
      kitt409 15 August 2018 22: 19
      +1
      Oh sankta simplicitas, are you either naive or ignorant - does the military have served his military pension and where to him ?? in housing and communal services, HOA, teachers - ?? laughing if you didn’t try to get there yourself, try - the teachers need it, only they won’t take the military there - without pedagogical education, but don’t tell me about the rest, people just don’t get there, after 45 the stubborn struggle for the guard, the watchman and the like, did not know ???
      And finally - PERSONALLY YOU ARE READY TO DEFEND THE INVITATION OF THE BORDERS OF A STRONG STATE RUSSIA ??? Your proposal will lead to the fact that WISHING to serve and protect will not just be small - very few, so you need to protect the borders, are you personally ready?
      Or do you not know for what, what deprivation to the military such benefits?
      I report - immediately after retirement, a meeting of classmates - almost two classes gathered, and so 4 people were not provided with apartments in the metropolis - three freshly baked military pensioners and another who married a classmate, then they divorced and left the apartment for his wife and children ...
      And the turn to get then was ... wow go)))
      so serve first yourself, and only then get the right to offer such ideas ...
      P.S. As for the ballerinas, sorry, not in the know laughing
      1. reservist
        reservist 16 August 2018 11: 09
        0
        Quote: kitt409
        ... 4 people were not provided with apartments in the metropolis - three freshly baked military pensioners ...

        besides the military, who run around the garrisons, there is also a very decent number of other beneficiaries, whose families live without constant travels around the country and, according to my observations, their "housing issue" is solved relatively early ...
        to listen to them regarding employment after 45 ...
  17. alexey1213
    alexey1213 15 August 2018 10: 10
    +2
    Two weeks ago, I read an interview with Delyagin in the arguments of the week. He says that money is paid from the pension fund to those who are in the group. Maybe they plug this hole, not pension contributions. Well, let's say that life expectancy has increased. We are retiring at 65 money and there is no money out of thin air. What next.
  18. ibn.shamai
    ibn.shamai 15 August 2018 10: 12
    +6
    Power with the stubbornness of an idiot is trying to prove to people that black is white! fool laughing laughing laughing
  19. betta
    betta 15 August 2018 10: 24
    +3
    By increasing the retirement age, contributions to the PF will not increase (jobs will not increase), but the amount of pension payments will decrease. And if you create jobs, it may not be necessary to raise the bar for exiting?
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 15 August 2018 11: 43
      +6
      Quote: betta
      Raising the retirement age,

      the number of pensioners and those who survive to it is reduced.
  20. private person
    private person 15 August 2018 10: 32
    +4
    Anton Siluanov, who heads the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation, also gleefully assesses the changes that will occur in the pension legislation if the bill is passed. He is confident that the improvement of the pension system in Russia will significantly increase the standard of living of its citizens, and this in turn will have a positive effect on the economic development of the state.

    Here are just a rosy assessment and can but create jobs, raise the industry to put things in order with the payment of "gray" wages, thereby increasing tax deductions, they cannot. And they can only spread rot on their people and get extra income in their pockets from the sale of oil and gas.
  21. seacap
    seacap 15 August 2018 10: 32
    +6
    Everything is much simpler and sadder. The head of the IMF came to the economic forum, lapped the puffy glossy cheeks of our ghouls, kicked a kick to his subordinate head of the Central Bank and her accomplice, the head of Sberbank, and the ministry also got it. And since Yale graduate, the best banker in the western version, i.e. best of all copes with the organization and control of the flow of funds from a semi-colony to the metropolis, is a staff member of the IMF, and Sberbank, as the structure of the Central Bank, organizes the total collection of personalization of citizens of the country with the transfer of data to the NSA of a hostile country, then the IMF's instructions and recommendations are binding . That’s all, the same applies to the entire post-Soviet territory. This also includes the zero-rate laws of the richest, pricing and ruble trading on the Chicago Stock Exchange, robbery continues, and prosperity and Western reforms must be addressed and paid for. It was said that we will destroy and dismember Russia with the help of our own elites and at the expense of the country itself, which is being implemented. We must pay tribute, this is a patient and stubborn adversary, persistently and rigorously realizing his plans for waging a war of annihilation, most importantly he is able to achieve success with the help of his own national corrupt elites. And all these people who killed the country, organized its robbery unprecedented in the history of mankind, they are all in power, they all live according to their own laws, in fact in another country, despising their homeland and their people, continuing to serve the interests of a distant and hostile power.
    1. akunin
      akunin 15 August 2018 12: 15
      0
      and the president is still over the fray, for it’s not he, but Christine Lagard appointed
      Yale graduate, the best banker in the western version, i.e. best of all copes with the organization and control of the flow of funds from a semi-colony to the metropolis, is a staff member of the IMF
      nabiullina elvira sakhipzadovna to command the money of a sovereign country. France cannot forgive us the berezina and "bistro" (it was sarcasm)
  22. Conductor
    Conductor 15 August 2018 10: 35
    +4
    But how would a potential pensioner live to see his pension if he was cut back at work? due to which, if not the deputy and did not save up? And such a question is stunned as it is for many. At the expense of children live? or sho? Can deputies knock off sn. Yes, and not all security officials under one comb. those at the bureaucracy and headquarters are also so at 60 for retirement.
  23. cosmonaut
    cosmonaut 15 August 2018 10: 50
    +4
    there is a saying, but censorship will not allow it to be written. I just want to say so ... you can’t shit, don’t torture your um ... if you can’t do it mildly, go away for good. reform. let those who can not rob people
  24. New Year day
    New Year day 15 August 2018 11: 09
    +8
    According to the Chairman of the PFR Board Anton Drozdov, raising the retirement age as part of improving the pension system is an extremely necessary measure.

    After all, they don’t have enough money for the further development of the FIU; they need to provide children, all relatives they know.
    With such leadership, the FIU will NEVER have money
    1. Old Horseradish
      Old Horseradish 15 August 2018 11: 26
      +4
      Dear Sylvester, look at how the rhetoric on pension robbery is changing. Send materials that glorify, in fact, pension genocide. And where are the opinions of honest, normal economists? Politicians? Public figures? Representatives of the people? Why give material to people who essentially stole all the retirement savings of citizens. This is wrong. But explainable.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 15 August 2018 16: 49
        +2
        Quote: Old Fuck
        And where are the opinions of honest, normal economists? Politicians? Public figures? Representatives of the people?

        their opinion does not coincide with the opinion of the authorities. The spring is compressed
  25. Vard
    Vard 15 August 2018 11: 26
    +4
    Watch your hands .. Russia has assumed all the obligations of the USSR ... Unlike other debts ... For some reason, it does not recognize the pension debt of its citizens ... Otherwise, stealing trust can not be called ...
  26. Bakht
    Bakht 15 August 2018 11: 37
    +2
    Everything would be fine, but here is the photo .... Given the signature that the photo is given on the official website of the FIU, I would like to compare

    The author does not care for his uncritical attitude to the material.
  27. akunin
    akunin 15 August 2018 12: 05
    +1
    their purchasing power will be very low.
    what is the purchasing power of 10.624 rubles (my pension)? and if it had not come out on time, then "so that you live on one salary ..." would have worked.
  28. 123456789
    123456789 15 August 2018 12: 13
    +1
    FIU revealed a secret why Russia needs to raise the retirement age

    FSE is not easy, but very simple:
    The president has set the task of raising pensions ...
    The fewer people will live up to it (pensions), the higher the pension for each survivor.
    Egor Gaidar:
    "There is nothing wrong with the fact that some of the pensioners will die out, but society will become more mobile."
  29. lambert
    lambert 15 August 2018 12: 45
    -2
    Quote: The Truth
    The problem of the funds of the pension fund is that the Pension Fund is not at the age of retirees, but in the number of preferential pensions, in the number of beneficiaries retiring at 30,40,45 years and receiving a pension far from 3000-5000 rubles / month.
    Look how many military pensioners we have at 35-45, how many ballerinas, ballerinas retired in 32, and everything becomes clear. If you send to retirement, for example, immediately after completion of an institute or other educational institution, then the entire budget of Russia will not be enough to pay pensions.
    To begin to deal with pensions is necessary not with raising the retirement age, but with the elimination of preferential pensions, retirement by old age without reaching the appropriate age.
    What and how to do here?
    Citizens who have earned a preferential pension for their professional affiliation should receive this pension when they reach the total retirement age: 55 and 60 years.
    Before reaching the general retirement age, preferential pensioners must undergo professional reorientation and continue to work in accordance with their physical abilities: a ballerina cannot dance anymore, even if she does not dance, but no one forbids her to become a saleswoman or mathematician and earn a second civil pension in accordance with her work , reached the military, policeman, etc. 45 years of service, earned a military pension, and nothing prevents him from becoming a manager, and earn a civilian pension, for example, as the head of the HOA, ZHEKA, teacher, etc. Let them retrain and work until they reach the general retirement age accepted in Russia. Earned a doctor, teacher, etc. a long service pension, let him change his profession and continue to work, earning himself another pension, which he will receive when he reaches the total retirement age.
    If the preferential pensioner completely loses the opportunity to work, then he receives disability and he is assigned a disability pension. At the same time, the old-age pension should be paid in accordance with the general rules: upon reaching the general retirement age.
    With this approach, pension reform will be supported by the people as fair and will not cause rejection and opposition of the people. But whether liberals in government need this. It might be better once again to rob your people ...

    "People-State-Fatherland" - this is the slogan of every Russian patriot: a strong state, a united nation, a prosperous Fatherland that cannot be broken by internal and external enemies.



    Well, firstly, all representatives, Moscow Region, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Emergencies, pay as they should in a pension fund, but they don’t receive a pension from it. More precisely, they can receive it after reaching the country's total retirement age. Of the money that is accrued after the discharge in the reserve (if they work).
    Secondly, you only achieve a work experience of 15 years, it is unclear what year, and the above categories have the condition immediately - at least 20 years and no more than 32 years (another thing as long service is considered, 1 month for 1,5, 2, 3). Moreover, to quit at 20 for 10 tr. - This is not to respect yourself. Therefore, they are smart somewhere around 40-45 years old. Then the pension of 30 TR fits.

    Thirdly, with regard to ballet dancers, there are so many of them that they tear a piece of throat directly on the go.

    And fourthly, what’s your business, excuse me, doggie, to retire the military, wait a bit, I will gladly hand my epaulets to you, and then judge.

    They will select experts from the sofas, they carry such offers, they would try first on cats.
    1. yehat
      yehat 15 August 2018 13: 12
      +4
      military pensions - they are different. There are no questions for the tankman who traveled to hot spots for 10 years and retired at 40. But there are huge questions for the quartermaster who retired at 35 in a warehouse. That's the thing. I worked with a rocket launcher of the same age as me. He did not do anything special - he just waited in the service of a pension and an apartment and resigned. And at that time I plowed no less than that and suffered a lot, but I have neither an apartment, nor a pension, but I worked no less and worked as an engineer, not as a loader. And the question arises - why so ??? Why have we become so unequal?
      And there are many such inequalities. Why do people who contribute very large sums to the Pension Fund retire 10 tr?
      A bunch of questions. Why is the summer experience of teachers completely included in the retirement experience, and I’ll remind you, a chic and regular vacation that many do not need to say that they were so special at work — I myself worked as a teacher and my wife was a teacher.
      1. kitt409
        kitt409 15 August 2018 22: 37
        +1
        Rocketeer, say, didn’t do anything special? Are you sure about that?
        Personally, I got about 120-140 days of carrying the database per year, and this is clean, so to speak - when starting from Tuesday to Friday, it takes three days "to count", how much is it actually, you yourself count? early in the morning on Tuesday and in the evening already on Friday, once or twice before lunchtime - when my wife's mother died, that was once ...
        and there are tricks and subtleties - well, for example, formula six through twelve to those who are in the know, says a lot, and even a week after a week, do not want to try? and some more nuances, to disclose, alas, until I ...
        just didn’t do anything special, or you just don’t know about it?
        P.S. Are you aware that teachers, teachers, etc. - a six-day working week, where does the vacation come from than 28 days?
  30. MrK
    MrK 15 August 2018 13: 00
    +4
    Quote: Less
    +9
    What's the secret?

    And the secret is that they stopped taking into account infant mortality. In general, do not take it into account when calculating the average life expectancy. As a result, this same duration has increased dramatically.
  31. samarin1969
    samarin1969 15 August 2018 14: 44
    +1
    A completely contrived argument that the state is one thing, and the state PF is another. What's the problem, "the inhabitants of heaven"? Include the State Pension Fund in the State Budget and pay people the money they earn. Or, besides the deriban of the labor of previous generations, your brain is no longer capable of anything?
  32. engineer74
    engineer74 15 August 2018 15: 02
    0
    EMNIP, "The right to work" has fallen off ... If we consider that some pensioners replace 3-5 "young ambitious effective", then there will be problems with unemployment benefits ... recourse
    IMHO
  33. Tomich3
    Tomich3 15 August 2018 15: 02
    10
    There are no pensions in Russia.
    The average salary in Russia is 36000. The average pension is 13000.
    Suppose a person has been working since the age of 21 and his seniority at retirement at 60 was 39 years. We presume that all his life he consistently received an average salary of 36 thousand. For all his labor activities, his contributions to the pension fund will be 468 months multiplied by 22% of the salary. (7920 rubles) is 3 706 560 rubles. To simply receive, only their money back, a person after retirement needs to live 23 years. Only in the 84th year of his life will he begin to receive money from the state or, as they say, “the working generation will start supporting him”. How many people in our country are over 84 years old ??? On a national scale, this is a “drop in the bucket” ...
    Everyone who did not live up to 84 years of age, the state fooled and robbed.
    Given the average life expectancy of 66 years, it becomes obvious that the state does not pay pensioners a ruble of state money. Only robs.
    After raising the retirement age to 65 years, a man will have a chance to receive the first state ruble at 93 years old.

    The state does not pay any pensions to people in our country. This is just a mathematical fact.
  34. Serg koma
    Serg koma 15 August 2018 15: 17
    +3
    I am sure that improving the pension system in Russia will significantly increase the standard of living of its citizens, and this, in turn, will have a beneficial effect on the economic development of the state.
    --Siluanov
    “We can assess the impact of professional, physical activity on longevity, this effect certainly works as a plus. A person who retains professional stereotypes for longer is in service longer ”
    - Skvortsova.
    Russian proverb: "People are not judged by themselves." Live on a pension (if you live), at least an average one, after 40 years of work as a bricklayer, excavator, tractor driver, etc., then throw "quotes" into the masses - DEBITIES
  35. Separ
    Separ 15 August 2018 15: 53
    +8
    Tired of showing on TV the showing of ruddy old men who gripped all the village women, and old women in wigs dashingly dancing at discos called "someone over 70". Better show women who are only 50 years old, exhausted by the overwhelming hellish village work, who are only 70 years old. XNUMX. And old people of retirement and pre-retirement age in the villages have long been gone - everyone has died out.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 August 2018 17: 41
      -7
      "Exhausted by village labor" - What, but labor, they are definitely not exhausted.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 15 August 2018 20: 20
        -3
        This expression is best for loafers - than for people who have grown, worked and lived on earth.
  36. Yasen Ping
    Yasen Ping 15 August 2018 16: 24
    +1
    Siluanov, I’m laughing at the Nimaga)))
  37. Altona
    Altona 15 August 2018 16: 42
    -2

    The right questions are being asked. Power must answer to the people.
    1. 123456789
      123456789 16 August 2018 13: 34
      -1
      Quote: Altona

      The right questions are being asked. Power must answer to the people.

      Two cons - two homosexuals on the site, it remains to calculate who put the cons laughing
  38. Sedoy
    Sedoy 15 August 2018 18: 26
    +3
    * According to the Chairman of the PFR Board Anton Drozdov, raising the retirement age is an extremely necessary measure
    --------------
    that's what ...




  39. APASUS
    APASUS 15 August 2018 20: 03
    -1
    The government needs pension reform primarily in order not to bother with the economy.
  40. TOR2
    TOR2 15 August 2018 20: 39
    0
    Recall that the process of raising the retirement age for the male population to 65 years
  41. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 15 August 2018 20: 53
    +4
    No secrets were revealed, because the picture will be too ugly, if you call a spade a spade.
    The FIU is not only spent on pension payments, other social benefits are paid out of it, therefore, the contribution should be the same for everyone, i.e. 22% of the payroll, crediting to a personal account can be left unchanged. Since the Russian Federation is a social state under the Constitution, pension payments administrators are civil servants and the state should receive the salary and keep this structure from the budget, in this case it will be possible to control the costs of their maintenance. As of 2017, 73 million employees, cf. salary 39 thousand. 22% of contributions to the PF-7,8 trillion., Retirees 43 million, cf. pension 13 thousand. pension payment-7 trillion. Where did 3 trillion go? transfer? To compensate for unpaid contributions from the income of St. 760 thousand contribution of 10%., for the maintenance of the FIU, for the payment of maternity capital. And what does the pensioners who have worked all their lives and will remain without a pension for old age. Cynicism.
  42. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 15 August 2018 21: 41
    0
    Beautiful girl. And, unfortunately, the slogans are correct.
  43. SEER
    SEER 15 August 2018 22: 25
    0
    Shary about Navalny and retirement age:
  44. Apollo
    Apollo 16 August 2018 12: 50
    0
    The need to raise the retirement age is the result of economic policy in the country, carried out since the collapse of the USSR. Ahead of the Russian Federation even greater demographic failure.