Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

The network has new photos of the Chinese fighter 5 generation Chengdu J-20, which allow to draw conclusions about some of the characteristics of the aircraft, leads Lenta.ru report the words of American expert Tyler Rogoway.

The expert draws attention to the radars built under the hull of the aircraft, the supersonic air intake, the Luneberg lens, the holes from the sensors hidden in the nose, as well as the horizontal tail.

According to him, the fighter has similarities with the American F-22 and F-35, which indicates industrial espionage.

However, China overtook Russia in the development of fighters. And in many ways this gap will widen every day, Rogov says. After all, the J-20 park is growing and developing, and the Russian Su-57 program (PAK FA) “stagnates to uselessness,” he explained.

At the same time, the expert notes that the leadership of Western countries should not underestimate the ability of the Chinese to make giant leaps in technical sciences and the development of aerospace materials.

Recall that in May, The National Interest magazine wrote that the Russian Su-57 is distinguished by excellent maneuverability, while the insignificance of the Chengdu J-20 should be attributed.

Comments

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

I wish China knew how to make its engines. The Su-35 engine system includes technologies such as vector engine control, software, and components that are poorly developed in China's industry.

[svp67]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

I wish China knew how to make its engines.

He has no time, he is trying to further break away from "backward" Russia

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

The Chinese during the years of the "Great Leap Forward" smelted metal in every yard Now fighters in the yards will be able to gash. One family - one fighter .

[maxim947]

I don’t care what China does there, especially according to some lousy expert, it’s much more important when the SU-57 is delivered to our troops, and with the second-stage engine, it’s not an experimental batch, but a normal series. Only terms shift to the right

[Pajamas]

Quote: maxim947

I don’t care what China does there, especially according to some lousy expert, it’s much more important when the SU-57 is delivered to our troops, and with the second-stage engine, it’s not an experimental batch, but a normal series. Only terms shift to the right

China has J-20 since July 2016 (the first two were released on July 13.07) and they have LRIP - low rate initial production (initial production) and these sides are transferred to the Chinese Test Flight Establishment, this is a combat center for the development of new equipment, they formulate tactics for use, they write training programs for combat pilots, so the 2 squadrons in CTFE are not the same as an achievement, especially since it is LRIP.

[Black sniper]

By the way, the article does not indicate why this J-20 is better than the Su-57 !!!

[dr.star75]

Yes, the fact that they will soon be like dogs uncircumcised, and our unparalleled sou57 -10pieces, considering destroyed on static tests

[tomket]

Quote: dr.star75

Yes, the fact that they will soon be like dogs uncircumcised, and our unparalleled sou57 -10pieces, considering destroyed on static tests

Well, how will they be like not cut dogs, then we will think.

[dr.star75]

China already has 2 aircraft carriers, still building. Destroyers, such as the American Berks, are already releasing a conveyor. Our forge in repair, cleans the exhaust pipes. Already need to think, or too early?

[venik]

Quote: dr.star75

China already has 2 aircraft carriers, still building. Destroyers, such as the American Berks, are already releasing a conveyor.

========
Maybe, of course, I “misunderstood” something .... But what does “aircraft carriers and destroyers” have to do with FIG 5th generation fighter?????
Or is it "bla-bla-bla" (like "but in our apartment - gas, and you ????")

[massad1]

don’t bother, here on VO a whole group of polymer workers scribbles posts about "but they won hoo-hoo !!!" , it would not hurt them to recall where the Chinese first carrier came from, that until the second - I strongly doubt its fundamental breakthrough compared to the first, that they rivet these planes out of foil is far from an indicator - let the engine do normally first, but They tried to rip off the AL-31F - it turned out, but even not very halaso. In general, I believe that one good rocket can not be compared in cost with an airplane, and even more so with an aircraft carrier

[dr.star75]

China has the 1st aircraft carrier from Russia. Only they themselves have released the second, and we Mistral even in the project is not. And there are no engines for frigates. with it! More about polymers to write? Well, how do we do a frigate for 15 years? Not all polymers ........?

[edasko]

Yes, and here the polymers! They will finish the engine, if you are not in the know, then China will supply Russia with all the goods. Do you think a country that has the 2nd economy in the world can not handle the engine for an airplane? But six months later they will show it, and so what? And we rely only on the cost of oil and pension reform. You compare production capacities. The situation is alarming.

[dr.star75]

This is not "supposedly not in our apartment gas" - but rather: the Chinese had nothing, and suddenly they had "5th" generation airplanes. And we are sawing su57, and we have only 10 of them, and when the 11th appears!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: venik

Maybe, of course, I "misunderstood" something ....

Pace the construction of TOTAL weapons in China is many times higher. It is the pace that is the connection. And you know. it does not make me happy.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: venik

Quote: dr.star75

China already has 2 aircraft carriers, still building. Destroyers, such as the American Berks, are already releasing a conveyor.

========
Maybe, of course, I “misunderstood” something .... But what does “aircraft carriers and destroyers” have to do with FIG 5th generation fighter?????
Or is it "bla-bla-bla" (like "but in our apartment - gas, and you ????")

The witness of the origin is not about pin up to the soviet, but the pro-Khaynovsky lysobase. Which in itself is even more shameful. You need to put him on the average salary of the Chinese, on the average pension of the (agricultural laborer) Chinese, and, in case of disagreement, make him mince, as was done with dissatisfied students on Tiananmen Square in 1989.

[dr.star75]

And I am a witness of the birth of the Unified State Exam victory! A person who does not know anything, but is confident in his exceptionalism! Observation of his own exceptionalism and incompetence! - For a start, look at the average salaries in China, after the average pensions. Well, about dissatisfied students, on Tiananmen, this is just a classic. As ordinary students were able to kill 300 soldiers and knock out 50 tanks, this is probably with ink pens.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vkd dvk

The witness of the origin is not about pin up to the soviet, but the pro-Khaynovsky lysobase.

Let’s see who will obey someone, when Chinese missiles fly to our Far East.

Quote: Vkd dvk

It is necessary to put him on the average salary of the Chinese, on the average pension (agricultural laborer) of the Chinese

And therefore it is on a rural worker? Why not urban? But even with a rural pension of about 6000r. ours, a Chinese senior citizen can afford more than ours. Mortgages are almost without interest, products and in general all goods are many times cheaper. City pension in China from 17 to 35 tr Moreover, real workers, and not the average as ours.

[lukewarm]

Quote: Vkd dvk

as did dissatisfied students in Tiananmen Square in 1989.

In terms of minced meat, the "democratic" power of the Russian Federation from China, if it lags behind, then quantitatively, due to the smaller population. They have Tiananmen (pro-American), we shot the parliament and its defenders in 1993 (to the applause of the nascent creative class)

[TermNachTer]

They are still very far from the American burks. And an aircraft carrier without an air group is a big target.

[mvg]

Why are you on the site ... sit. This is not Murzilka .. Before blurt out, you can google it .. And what if they take it for an idiot ??? Or is it not scary?

[Setrac]

Quote: TermNachTER

And an aircraft carrier without an air group is a big target

The aircraft carrier and the air group are a big target.

[EvilLion]

It is necessary, I now think that it would be better to blow up Kuzyu in FIG. But we do not have Singapore, through which all our trade goes, to feverishly make the fleet for the possibility of invading it.

[EvilLion]

200 + Su-30 and Su-35 are not enough for you?

[sgazeev]

Quote: Black Sniper

By the way, the article does not indicate why this J-20 is better than the Su-57 !!!

Esperd decided to kick off. This magazine is at the Murzilka level, slobbering tales of a white bull.

[aleks26]

Quote: sgazeev

Esperd decided to kick up. This magazine is at the Murzilka level.

Well what are you? From 3 photos to determine the capabilities of the aircraft and draw a conclusion

Quote: sgazeev

However, China overtook Russia in fighter development.

- it costs a lot!

[massad1]

Well, for example, I saw from the second photo that this miracle has a chassis hatch made of foil , cherry amulet is straight some

[Vol4ara]

Quote: massad1

Well, for example, I saw from the second photo that this miracle has a chassis hatch made of foil , cherry amulet is straight some

So what about the case? Su 57 will be produced and mass enlisted in the troops or not?

[Dimmedroll]

Well, there will be a second-stage engine in production and it may appear, or maybe they will skip. Who knows.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

Now fighters in the yards will be able to gash.

et for sure! ... only the metal is not the same .... they always have the wrong .....

[yehat]

the Chinese and sparrows destroyed during the years of the great leap
I’m wondering, if you prove that cockroaches reduce productivity, the Chinese can lime them under the root?

[edge]

Quote: svp67

He has no time, he is trying to further break away from "backward" Russia

yeah, and therefore bought the Jewish Sabra puts the Russian engines, supplemented with stolen elements with f-22 and beat ourselves with a heel in the chest, we are ahead of the rest .....

[NEOZ]

Quote: hert

hit themselves with a heel in the chest, we are ahead of the rest .....

so what? we also have no analogues in the world ....

[Mih1974]

Do not confuse warm and green: in the USA, the EU (in places) and in Russia - there is a “school” and this is not just one two smart designers, these are tens of thousands of people who constantly quitting and accepting new ones continue to retain competence (or human - skill ) create Airplanes, one of the key qualities of this is its own "purge" systems. And do not confuse the "big fan" and understanding what and how it gives. It seems that our TsAGI built a “purge chamber” for the Chinese and maybe threw all the measuring equipment, but it’s only good .
The key point is the similarity and difference of the samples from competitors, here the USSR and the USA were very different in aviation, in Russia our Su-57 has a lot in common with the F-22, but it looks radically different (still we have a different concept, which 22 does not pull) but the Chinese - they concocted a cadavre, a chimera, almost literally "dazzling" together large pieces of completely different planes. What came of this from the point of view of aerodynamics (how IT flies), manufacturability - traction, afterburner, range, carrying capacity, one Buddha knows. But world history has shown - the copy is always worse than the original !! Only by understanding the principle and on the basis of the “copy” to create His own and improved one can surpass the original. A perfect example = the “B-29 trophies” and the Tu-95 made at the end of it, sobbing like a bear, but excuse me nowadays, nobody can hear enemy bombers by ear anymore.

[dr.star75]

There are worse copies than the original, better than the original. And design schools are either developing or degrading. And here the comparison is not in our direction

[yehat]

B-29 trophies and Tu-95 made at the end of it

Tu-95 is a completely different plane
the only thing that connects them is the creation of a wide list of suppliers of different components for the production of tu-4. This is a great connection, but not in any way constructive.

[mvg]

That's just the Chinese have schools, corporations and it does not matter, their own or borrowed. Do not disdain minds with the EU and with Russia and Ukraine. Entire cities are being built. But in Russia, the MiG, Yakovlev design bureau dies ... Ilyushushintsy barely hold on. There was no Antonov (allies).
What are the civilian aircraft (new) by ear ??? No one. The superjet is not ours, the MS-21 does not fly, the PS-14 engine is the first creation in 25 years ... And helicopters ??? Ka-226, in cooperation?
PS: Afiget, what schools we have ... you can be proud!

[Sarmat Sanych]

Who told you such nonsense? The MC-21 is put into series, the Superjet has long reached 50% of the domestic kit, they are planning up to 60% for 100 seats (then they will go to Iran), the new Ka-62, mi-38 helicopters are now plowing thanks to the attendants of the same Chinese new heavy based on the Mi-26 do. But synanthropes, in fact, over 60 years still have nothing of their own from ANY flying means, all are either clones, either with the help of foreign design bureaus, or hybrids - and all without exception with foreign engines or their clones for 10 times. How much have we helped them in Soviet time and modern times, how much equipment have been built and delivered, how many test stands and research institutes have been created for them, how many thousands of our engineers have been there on business trips, how many Chinese specialists have the Union and the Russian Federation trained? And how much did they steal and buy for cheap from us and Ukrainians? How many stolen from the United States, the French? Guys, you do not have to exalt the synanthropes, they, with all their superhuman organization, persistence of efficiency and prudence, are extremely weak in mind and creativity. Nothing and NEVER could come up with and can not in the future, this is the genetic feature of the Chinese. This I am silent about the fact that there is still very far from the fundamental school. So only copying, buying dviglov and co-production. I think the celestial people have long come to terms with this.

[mvg]

Stolen and stolen. Civil S-919, transport J-20, J-10B / 11B / 15A, fifth generation J / 20/31. Khrenova cloud of helicopters. And in the dimension of Apache and marine variants of the Ka-27/31. And amphibious aircraft. And about the engines - tie up to carry nonsense, they picked up that the Chinese engines are disposable. Soon we will be buying from them the WS-15 for the Su-57. Training and combat, abruptly our Yak-130.
PS: Yes, they were like a drum, they stole it or invented something of their own. Made in China and all ...
And there are missiles and tanks and air defense systems and submarines and the second most powerful fleet and 1.5 billion working population.

[EvilLion]

The population there is no more than 900 million according to Chinese reference books. Because China is one big window dress.

[Mih1974]

I don’t understand why you obviously deny and even cite facts confirming us, for some reason attributing them to your advantage?
Yes, they steal and technology or simply copy samples. I guess they heard how the Chinese go to European fashion stores and quietly measure samples? And how they copied our Su-27 - they literally dismantled it to a bolt and measured it or with other models of equipment. At the same time, their "Kalash" are the most filthy in the world, and copies of dryers are still inferior to the originals, even with our engines (I don’t know what they jam there).
Understand a simple thing - you can learn how to make a "brick", but you cannot steal the technology of "pyramids" or come up with your own Tod-Mahal on the basis of knowledge of a "brick".
Let's compare the two periods of the USSR and the PRC: in 1917-21 in the USSR, in fact, the entire scientific and scientific-technical community was completely destroyed (no matter who and why). There were no institutes, departments, and much more, then by 1941 the USSR bought part of the industry, but science could not be bought and it was created “out of nothing” and on June 22 there were already the best T-34 and KV-1 tanks, but there were few of them but we are talking about the level of science and technology. Schools and design bureaus of aircraft building and rocket building were created - and the results were smashed by the Nazis, while there were Physics and Chemistry, there was also biology in spite of the errors of persecution of genetics and in 1949 the USSR created its own uranium bomb , and then the first flew to space, during the war the terrible problem of antibiotics was solved and millions of wounded were saved from death (not kidding). And that’s all in just 24 years since the overthrow of the “provisional government” and despite the defeat of the country into civilian life, and that the PRC in the 70s and 80s, the “whole civilized world” began to forcefully push its factories into China, build schools there for junior technical staff, they provide loans, access to inventory and to their sales markets, no sanctions, no restrictions, they even spit on the first attempts of the Chinese to make unlicensed copies. Now call me at least ONE exclusively Chinese model of world technological achievement?

[Setrac]

Quote: mvg

Soon we will be buying from them the WS-15 for the Su-57.

Forward to you

Quote: mvg

fasten nonsense

[mvg]

Yes, I’m more than sure that the WS-15A will be released sooner than the mythical “product 30” ..
And I’m not at all sure that the Su-57 will go as a batch, at least in 100 pieces. On the drum, there will be AL-41F1 or something more powerful.
But the penguin's prospects are monstrous .. For 3000 aircraft.

[Black sniper]

Once they were talking about “their own” Kalashnikovs who said the same thing every time they shot, after 2 years they began to buy them from the USSR again!

[Black sniper]

I almost forgot, the same thing happened with the tanks from T-34 to T-72 until they blinded their own from sledgehammers and crowbars ...

[dr.star75]

You can continue to joke on the Chinese, only in the remainder: China at the price of scrap metal was bought by an aircraft carrier, we brought it to mind. The Chinese have mastered and built a new one, + they are still sawing. France threw us with the Mistrals, ours promised to do their udk .. How many did? 0! - 0!. How many ships froze on the slipways due to the lack of engines? And China, the destroyers began to rivet like a mad printer! And we just do the grains.

[Gargantua]

So we also put Chinese engines on Buyany-M, they also offer to buy for the unfortunate frigates who have been frozen for 4 years. Probably because they are also made of foil

[KCA]

They don’t put it, it is precisely because of the claims of the Moscow Region that Chinese engines are not suitable for military equipment, we are waiting for Rybinsk’s answer

[Gargantua]

Are Rybinsk directs great engines? They put them on corvettes, and they were already burning right during the exercises, and they break down constantly. Not from a good life, we first bought them from the Germans, but now, due to sanctions, we were forbidden to supply them. So our shipbuilders and military rush from corner to corner, not knowing which evil to choose.

[KCA]

It just happened that a divorce with Ukraine quickly somehow happened, and the engines are not developed and are not done in a month, and are not done in 20 years, and in 30, only cats will be born quickly, but a fried cock pecked in the mouth, they’ll give a reins in the ass, they’ll do and our any engines, again, not tomorrow, here, though not with reins, but with a deafening bang

[Setrac]

Quote: Gargantua

So we also put Chinese engines on Buyany-M

The engines are not Chinese, licensed production.

[Gargantua]

Does that change a lot? First, licensed production, then analog production, and then the development of a fully domestic engine. China thinks through everything and looks forward to decades ahead. By the way, they learned how to perfectly service boiler-turbine installations of the destroyers of the project 956 sold to them and even, according to media reports, upgraded them a little. And it is precisely because of their poor-quality service that almost all Sarychs “died”, with the exception of the only one at the Pacific Fleet, “died” here. Here they are such unskillful and copyists these Chinese

[Setrac]

Quote: Gargantua

then the development of a fully domestic engine

Not a fact, not a fact at all. So far, actually Chinese developments are not in nature.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Gargantua

Well, then the development of a fully domestic engine.

and here pshshshshshshsh

[Mih1974]

But sho - are they putting Chinese engines, eh? Oh

Propulsion system - combined diesel-gas turbine (CODOG), consists of two QC-280 gas turbine engines with a total capacity of 28 megawatts and two Shaanxi diesel engines (Chinese copy of the diesel MTU 20V956TB92)

And how did it happen, maybe they "dragged it by accident" from a nearby factory dragging on which the originals of these engines are made?
It’s enough to confuse the dark and the green: in China, the authorities have money and the desire to get a “product” and they don’t stop either before shooting thieves or stealing (copying) wherever they can.
In Russia, the Authorities have no money for this (their pocket is more reliable), nor the desire to shoot thieves. Therefore, we do not build ships, do not make diesel for them and many many many. By the way, “no money” in Russia is also the fault of the country's leadership because if there is a “zharchchenka” with one and a half tons of cash stolen cash, then it’s frightening to fantasize how much more money is “not good for the motherland.”
But in Russia, with a change in the "motivation" of the Authorities, there will be specialists, inventions and schools, Comrade Stalin proved this.

[massad1]

what are you saying? They’ve fired steeper tanks, they even have a secret emergency rifle shooting system, I saw it myself last year at biathlon

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

He has no time, he is trying to further break away from "backward" Russia

China has done the main thing! The fighter has similarities with the F-22 and F-35 (possibly only external)! Apparently expert Rogov knows better!

[mmk]

The Chinese are focusing on more popular items than military equipment. In fact, they focus on demand, and rightly so. What often buys makes sense to produce, do not you think so? How many contracts does the military-industrial complex sign? Plus, mattress covers put sticks in the wheels of those states that are trying to buy something with us in large amounts.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

I wish China knew how to make its engines.

He has no time, he is trying to further break away from "backward" Russia

China has long been “torn away” from Russia. Because we know how to do, but don’t do, and if we do, it’s extremely small. And China may do something and cannot do it, but it does, and a lot.
So, do not neglect the Chinese. They will show us Kuzma’s mother again.

[Dimmedroll]

Well, times like these today China comes off tomorrow Europe or Australia. Then everything will go around in a circle and only we between these comrades stand and think we’ll give a damn about it, send the children to grow up and clean the gun. We always lagged behind in peacetime in arms. But during the time they won out very quickly.

[Sarmat Sanych]

After 20 years, the Chinese will not be able to make engines with our motor resources, and they should not even dream of our 2nd stage engine (only if we sell them ourselves). Another thing is more interesting here, the iksperd has an interesting surname - "Hornbill". Reminds Bandera rogue, who fled to Matrasia in the 44th.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Sarmat Sanych

After 20 years, the Chinese will not be able to make engines with our motor resources, and they should not even dream of our 2nd stage engine (only if we sell them ourselves). Another thing is more interesting here, the iksperd has an interesting surname - "Hornbill". Reminds Bandera rogue, who fled to Matrasia in the 44th.

Blessed is he who believes. I won’t be surprised if after 3 - 5 years the Chinese "give us" in aviation, as they did in shipbuilding.

[shans2]

Even Papuans from CAR are doing Ukraine, do not worry)

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: shans2

Even Papuans from CAR are doing Ukraine, do not worry)

Why - "do"? They already did it, a disease. So, it's too late to "steam".

[Romario_Argo]

The Su-35 engine system includes

central cast-iron rotor with cast vanes, if you start to disassemble the engine you can’t assemble it back, you need a special stand which China does not have

[MPN]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

I wish China knew how to make its engines

China has shown that it can do a lot ... and engines are a matter of time, I would not reassure myself with this.
But in essence, the expert’s opinions, I did not notice any concrete facts of superiority except for a couple, a triple of terms and a bunch of fantasies drawn by the ears ...

[ul_vitalii]

Pavel, welcome!

EksperDam know better, tomorrow they will already praise the dressings.

[MPN]

Hi Vitaly! They have such a job.

[edge]

Quote: MPN

China has shown that he can do much ...

in-in .... at first the Americans and the Eureka moved their factories there because of cheap slave power, and then there were screams, we did it

[MPN]

Sergei welcome!

Quote: hert

first the Americans and Eureka moved their plants there

Yes, there’s at least how, absolutely no matter who and how where, what he transferred, sold, presented. Fact China today is able to make technological breakthroughs and can produce what we cannot (the same floating docks and megacranes for shipbuilding) ... This is serious ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: MPN

China today is able to make technological breakthroughs and can produce what we cannot

what exactly?

[Setrac]

Quote: MPN

Yes, there’s at least how, absolutely no matter who and how where, what he transferred, sold, presented. Fact

The fact is that no one handed over some KEY technologies to China, but they themselves were unable to create them.

[MPN]

Quote: Setrac

and they themselves were unable to create them.

So far ... were not capable, maybe already capable. Once everyone was not capable, but they created the same.

[Setrac]

Quote: MPN

So far ... were not capable

But in order to be able to “later” - it is necessary to develop fundamental science - otherwise they will copy other people's developments.

[dr.star75]

The Chinese understand this, and therefore invest, but we, unfortunately, do not, so we will soon be copying from the Chinese. The Chinese made the aircraft carrier themselves, and we can’t finish the frigates of 15 years, yet. Remind about UDC?

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

The Chinese understand this, and therefore invest, but we, unfortunately, do not, so we will soon be copying from the Chinese.

Something is not visible of their achievements!

Quote: dr.star75

The Chinese made themselves Aircraft Carrier

But the engine for the fighter themselves can not do, but in an aircraft carrier there is nothing complicated.

[dr.star75]

“and there’s nothing complicated in an aircraft carrier” -
that's why they are riveted to all and sundry. Especially Russia. Even the UDC put it on stream, which is why dry cargo ships are breaking into Syria.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

that's why they are riveted to all and sundry

there are problems of money and necessity

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Setrac

Something is not visible to their achievements

Sergey - whose monitor are you sitting at? On whose phone are you talking?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Sergey - whose monitor are you sitting at?

Are you like "made in china"? !!
So it’s not the Chinese, it’s the factories of other countries in China, we collect in the area of ​​behi you will not argue that this is a RUSSIAN brand

although the Samsung refrigerator made in Korea and China can be distinguished by smell, the Chinese stink to horror

[Setrac]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Sergey - whose monitor are you sitting at?

Phillips

Quote: Ingvar 72

On whose phone are you talking?

Нокиа
It was about development, about fundamental science, what are these silly questions of yours?

[Sands Careers General]

The Chinese made themselves Aircraft Carrier

They didn’t, but copied, not an aircraft carrier, but an aircraft carrier cruiser, these are two different things.

[dr.star75]

And why can’t we repeat what we can’t do? And why ship engines have not yet learned how to do it, and why we have been doing the frigate for 15 years, and the Chinese have already done the aircraft-carrying cruiser, but we can’t. Even udk can not copy?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

And why can’t we repeat what we did?

But is there a real need? !!!!
the fleet needs to be built neatly, an expensive thing can be designed, and after that it is not clear what to do with it

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

And why can’t we repeat what we did?

We are not building sailing frigates - but we can, maybe because they are not needed?

Quote: dr.star75

And why ship engines have not yet learned how to make, and why we have been doing the frigate for 15 years

Thickly troll

[Flies]

Sorry, what world are you living in? In China, just this is in full swing. After two of my acquaintances, children, after graduation, were invited to further work in China. And you know, do not buzz. And they don’t want to go to Mother Russia. Because they were given everything there. And work in the specialty, and housing, and salary (significantly more than ours), and career growth.
And we have?

[Setrac]

Quote: Flies

After two of my acquaintances, children, after graduation, were invited to further work in China. And you know, do not buzz.

Their children will be Chinese ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: MPN

Once everyone was not capable, but they created the same.

not quite so, you need a school, it doesn’t happen that yesterday there was a splinter, and tomorrow there is already a factory of LED lamps

[Mih1974]

The funny thing is that you described the realities of China . There were just “splinter” there, remember the slogan - “give smelting of cast iron in every yard”, and then the Americans and Europeans came and - TOTAL brought the plants.
Yes, the Chinese have made copies of these plants for themselves and are stamping them without the supervision of the "white sahibs."
But you are completely right - offer the Chinese to build a spaceship to Mars with the deployment of a base there for people (and financing), they can not do a damn thing. Well, or they will do something to die either in flight or already on Mars.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Setrac

that no one handed over some KEY technologies to China, but they themselves were unable to create them.

They are not shy about borrowing them for free. Industrial espionage is cheaper.

[Setrac]

Quote: Ingvar 72

They are not shy about borrowing them for free. Industrial espionage is cheaper.

What can they not do normal turbines? Something is wrong with Chinese intelligence

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Industrial espionage is cheaper.

he can help when there is something like his

[DMB_95]

Quote: MPN

Fact China today is able to make technological breakthroughs and can produce what we cannot

Both we and they can not lose (but not win) the war between Russia and China only with the use of nuclear weapons. As well as with the USA. I hope that they understand this and that’s why such superplanes in a serious war will not do the weather. They can prove themselves in conflicts with third countries or even between us (USA, China, Russia), but in local conflicts on the territory of third countries.

[max702]

Quote: DMB_95

. I hope that they understand this and that’s why such superplanes in a serious war will not do the weather. They can prove themselves in conflicts with third countries or even between us (USA, China, Russia), but in local conflicts in the territory of third countries.

By the way, yes! Therefore, there are no forced purchases of the SU-57, Armat, Kurgan, Leaders and others .. For if everything is with the United States, everything else is updated for the rest .. Syria confirmed .. It’s good that there is such an understanding, and it would be like with the T-64, MIG-29 and others ..

[Mih1974]

Come on, surprise us with a "Chinese technological breakthrough", and here we laugh

[NEOZ]

Quote: hert

moved their factories there because of cheap slave force

more about this ... who? what? where? for what reason? all suffered.
justify scientifically.

[Setrac]

Quote: NEOZ

more about this ... who? what? where? for what reason? all suffered.

You should be educated - if you don’t know, before arguing.

[igorka357]

Of course it’s a matter of time, for a thousand years, China grabbed from everyone .. never won, never waited, everyone waited .. it's a matter of time, and another thousand will wait ..

[dr.star75]

China is 300 years old, he did not defeat anyone. But he can wait.

[nickname7]

China is 300 years old, he did not defeat anyone

China has 4 thousand years of written history, having started quite sharply in development, it froze, having become self-taught, apparently, for the development of civilization without interruptions, expansion, territory and robbery of the Papuans are necessary.
Now China has come out of pupation, is actively adopting the experience of the West.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: nickname7

China has 4 thousand years of written history

with which the same is not all pure

[Setrac]

Quote: nickname7

China has 4 thousand years of written history, having quite a sharp start in development, it froze, having become a puppet in itself

This is complete nonsense. The oldest written document existing in the original dates from the 8th century AD, Chinese written sources are even younger, about five hundred years old.
There is no stagnation and never was, just Chinese civilization is young

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Setrac

just chinese civilization is young

and extremely cunning

If you're weak, pretend to be strong

[Setrac]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and extremely cunning

As I wrote earlier (not in this topic), the younger the state and people - the more ancient history it wrote to itself, before the collapse of the USSR, the "God-chosen" people were the most "old", but now the most "ancient" are ancient Ukry.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Setrac

the more ancient history it wrote to itself

it seems different here, the Chinese throughout the course of their history have been raking away from everyone, I think that their parable about the macaque that awaits when the enemy from the same series swims, they say we are not flimsy we are wise, just in the 20th century they decided to pretend to be a predator although in fact " butterfly"

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Setrac

however, now the most “ancient” ones are ancient Ukrainian.

you were not on Kazakh sites although their Kyrgyz neighbors do not anneal the same too

[Setrac]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

you were not on Kazakh sites

This applies to all the "former", just Ukrainians jumped all, and dug up the sea and poured mountains.

[dr.star75]

Well, finally, the logic came to VO. For doubters, let them look at least into the English library. There you can see enough of this!

[Nova]

Dear, I tell you as a historian - the history of any state written and corresponded each time by the new government, as it were, to the ruling elite of this state. And with the "inventors of the compass, paper and gunpowder" everything is not so simple and familiar. As with the history of Europe. And of any state, do you agree?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: MPN

China has shown that he can do much ...

what exactly?

[Mih1974]

see for yourself and you can even show let them lick their lips and move on with a "waving pick")). And I advise you to look at the eyes of top engineers, personally they shocked me, these are people beyond the borders, they are like those mythical masters who forged Damascus steel and damask steel.

[TermNachTer]

China engine TV - 3 - 117, copies for more than 20 years. If earlier they had a designated resource of 1 hours, actually 000-500, now they have reached 600-800. Motorovsky TV 900 is 3, has a designated resource of 117 hours and it takes care of them. So, a narrow-film engine will have a good engine in 6 years.

[siberalt]

So, imported Polish apples are 40 better each than Chinese wooden ones 120. And what if there are neither Polish nor Polish ones?

[jjj]

I remember somehow in the last century in Blagoveshchensk, I heartily ate Chinese apples. The variety, in my opinion, was go-guan. Each apple was wrapped in soft paper. And in the box they were sprinkled with something like sawdust

[igorka357]

Olezh .. and what about the reform, you are a veteran ..? !!!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: siberalt

And what if there are neither Polish nor Polish?

and where do you have no apples ?!
just wondering

[Sarmat Sanych]

You will be surprised, but more than 50% of the apple market in Russia is domestic. About 5 years ago it was about 30%.

[krops777]

Give the name of this expert, who he is, what he is, and maybe the same couch expert like me .

[astepanov]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

I wish China knew how to make its engines.

China will learn. But we are not. Thirty years ago, China half-heartedly made flashlights. Now we are sitting tight on Chinese microelectronics, power sources, non-ferrous metal products (yes, yes, I recently tried to buy a nickel tape - the Chinese one turned out to be cheaper and better, the same thing with copper tape). They terribly overtake us in the pace of the development of the fleet, almost caught up in space. As for the SU-57, those 12 pieces that are made do not change the weather, and further production is blocked for an indefinite period. The same with “Armata” and all the equipment on its platform. Actually, so in almost everything. Maybe we have a lot of hats with earflaps in army warehouses - in which case, we will shower? Judging by many comments, the way it is: we will shower, peer, re-drink and re-drink. Well, and turn it over, it's holy ...

[Mih1974]

Excuse me, but how is the "strange behavior" (for censorship) of the Russian government in "not purchasing new weapons" related to our ability to create it? If tomorrow it’s “conditional” to shoot almost the entire government and allocate money for both “Almaty” and “Su-57”, then they will be there, but the Chinese would not have allocated as much - they simply have nowhere and no one to do the same.
There is no need to lie - we do not buy "Chinese electronics, often because as such it does not exist. we buy (through such a cunning rectal) what was previously inaccessible in the USSR - American or as they say "Western" electronics. Do not flatter yourself - China only "pours" the western element base, immediately sells or even "solders" what the customer wants and cheaply. And there is nothing "shameful" in buying Chinese electrics, you go laugh at NASA or the Pentagon, which a couple of years ago howled the beluga "Chineses are driving in our military equipment." And note this not to mention the civilian spectrum.
According to the nickel tape you mentioned - why did you get that this is not a German or Dutch tape, only produced in China? YES, China, you’ll soon collect more Boys per year than in the United States, and what should be considered Chinese, too?
Of course, this does not cancel the abyss, defeat, wrecking on the destruction of production in Russia, but it is a given and everyone in their place can and should fight it, someone can make "flashlights" better and cheaper than Chinese, someone can restore or re-create huge plants and factories.

[Muvka]

I agree with you. Recall the recent history with Xiaomi. Chinese manufacturer of smartphones. They sold the wrong party, the USA said nafig and that’s all - they no longer produce smartphones. Tell me, if the Chinese are so strong in electronics, why did uncles from the USA forbid the Chinese manufacturer to make smartphones and he stopped their production?

[yehat]

But what are the problems in China with programming?
the Chinese can blunt, like the Japanese, over the successful implementation of a change in the thrust vector,
but in the end they will find or steal the right one. They are stopped only by the weak development of materials science.
But this is also temporary.

[TermNachTer]

That's it, comrade. China will then overtake Russia when it makes its own engine with the appropriate characteristics, that is, not yet soon.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Aristarkh Lyudvigovich

I wish China knew how to make its engines. The Su-35 engine system includes technologies such as vector engine control, software, and components that are poorly developed in China's industry.

What to discuss? EksperD does not know the performance characteristics of either the Chinese or the SU-57, and conclusions have already been made. Is this an expert?

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

The Su-35 engine system includes technologies such as vector engine control,

And what is "vector engine control" do not tell me?

[kutuz]

As far as I know, Russia is not all right with the engines either. And about software and technology, Russia "nervously smokes on the sidelines."

[svp67]

Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

Because....

According to him, the fighter has similarities with the American F-22 and F-35

That's just the "old man" Su-30MKI somehow sees it at a range of about one and a half hundred kilometers, that's such an "invisibility"
And I like this “airplane” more ...


And the photo below clearly shows that he has TWO bays for combat load, unlike the "Chinese"

[NN52]

I wonder where is this "cuttlefish" better than our Su 57?
"Good" expert, on a photo compares the capabilities of machines ...
And PGO probably later stuck when they realized that the error in the calculations came out ...
IMHO

[poquello]

Quote: NN52

I wonder where is this "cuttlefish" better than our Su 57?

Duc wrote, patamushta them more, better - more Ohhh

[The Siberian barber]

Quote: NN52

I wonder where is this "cuttlefish" better than our Su 57?
"Good" expert, on a photo compares the capabilities of machines ...
And PGO probably later stuck when they realized that the error in the calculations came out ...
IMHO

Judging by the photo, they have, LENGTH matters))))

[Mih1974]

that is, the rocket is so "length sensitive"? And I naively thought that "Asians are short," and there it is like Mikhalych.

[Pajamas]

Quote: NN52

I wonder where is this "cuttlefish" better than our Su 57?
"Good" expert, on a photo compares the capabilities of machines ...
And PGO probably later stuck when they realized that the error in the calculations came out ...
IMHO

no sculpted with MiG 1.44 some of the documentation is rumored to have come to them.

[voyaka uh]

The photo shows that the Chinese more accurately reacted to stealth.
All forms and transitions of the fuselage are faceted. More carbon and less aluminum.

[tomket]

Quote: voyaka uh

All forms and transitions of the fuselage are faceted. More carbon and less aluminum.

Yeah, but how GIP with false to Stealth?

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: svp67

And the photo below clearly shows that he has TWO bays for combat load, unlike the "Chinese"

Actually, there are four of them.

[svp67]

Quote: saturn.mmm

In fact, there are four

All the worse for his opponents, including the "invisible", no matter what nationality they are

[dr.star75]

You can continue to admire the su57, the Tsar Cannon and the Tsar Bell, their series is approximately the same. The trouble is that our superguns are in a single copy, and the Chinese slap them in thousands.

[svp67]

Quote: dr.star75

You can continue to admire the su57, the Tsar Cannon and the Tsar Bell, their series is approximately the same.

How strange you are.

Quote: dr.star75

The trouble is that our superguns are in a single copy, and the Chinese slap them in thousands.

And you think that it will bring them a lot of happiness?
Let's give time to act as a judge in this dispute.

[dr.star75]

“How strange you are.” - in the sense of?
I am a traditional orientation.
“And you think that it will bring them a lot of happiness?” - yes!
since we have only 10 su57, and they rivet them thousands!

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

since we have only 10 su57, and they rivet them thousands!

You see, what’s the matter, what are called fifth-generation airplanes - they are no different from the fourth, and the idea of ​​a multi-purpose machine is utopian from the beginning. If we take, for example, “lightning,” then it is much inferior to fourth-generation American aircraft. Aircraft with reduced visibility have their own niche - special operations - but this is not a workhorse. In fact, now no one knows what a fifth-generation airplane should look like, and those who think they know are simply mistaken.

[dr.star75]

"In fact, now no one knows what a fifth-generation aircraft should look like, and those who think they know are simply mistaken." - Well, yes, yes, that’s why the United States released 200 raptors, and now they’re ripping f35 in full.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

Well, yes, yes, that’s why the United States released 200 raptors, and now they’re ripping f35 with might and main.

Only two hundred and production ceased - apparently something went wrong.

[yehat]

4 compartments - in nozzles you can also shove potatoes and fry
But seriously, the closet has 2 containers in series, while the Chinese have the same two in parallel.
differences in dimensions - here the difference is big. The Chinese can take inside only rubbish the size of a sidewinder. Long-range missiles are already in the woods. Thus, like an attack aircraft or interceptor, this aircraft cannot protrude without reducing the invisibility of the pendants from the outside.
The same goes for f-22. The packs are also not all perfect, but at least part of the range of long-range missiles breaks.

[Alexey-74]

If there were more such experts to our opponents .... Su-57 will appear quickly and unexpectedly for everyone, especially for amateur analysts. Will appear with new features and new engines. Russia, as always, presents a lot of new weapons. And China does not have its own technologies, but has honed the skills of cloning, remaking and espionage, but there is one thing, but these compotes from different technologies will never be better than analogues (Russia, the USA, etc.) in this Achilles heel of all Chinese products.

[edge]

Quote: Alexey-74

And China does not have its own technologies, and hone the skills of cloning, remaking and espionage, but there is one thing, but these compotes from different technologies will never be better than analogues

Su-57 is an experimental-transitional machine: it studies technologies, materials, scientific research, and so that in case of exacerbation it would be possible to quickly work out a series

[stasimar]

The same thing is said about the su-47, and about everything that does not go into the series

[Cinema]

everything is written correctly

[_Ugene_]

After all, the J-20 fleet is growing and developing, and the Russian Su-57 program (PAK FA) “stagnates to uselessness”

unfortunately it is, I just haven’t caught up with the engines yet, but this is a matter of time

[Cinema]

so our laboratory flies only with the engines of the first stage ....

[Muvka]

Quote: Cinema

so our laboratory flies only with the engines of the first stage ....

Since December last year, it’s already been flying with a 2nd stage engine, so don’t.

[Cinema]

and what's the point? half of the plane is completely empty .... there are no radars or even equipment on board approved .. and now they even want to close it ... so Vladimir needs ...

[Muvka]

Also approved. Electronics will be taken from the T-50-11.

[Cinema]

approved, but as you can see there is no money .. yes it’s already stopped before the series .. I’m silent about other things

[another RUSICH]

Interestingly, and as soon as one photograph, you can determine the performance characteristics of the aircraft and its ability to fly?
A session of spiritualism?))

[Smoked]

So after all, they are experts, they see both deep and wide, not to mention the distance.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

it is extremely interesting what kind of education this "expert" has, could not find in nete

[shubin]

There was a time when they laughed at the Chinese auto industry.

[Cinema]

usually those who have worse laugh (with us) and the laughing first painfully falls

[Moskovit]

Yes, and now you can laugh. Bad cars.

[Skarpzd]

crappy compared to what? in what price segment?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Moskovit

Yes, and now you can laugh. Bad cars.

I don’t know about cars, I didn’t go. But last week fate brought together one person. He works as a teacher at the university and in one design bureau for the defense industry, at the well-known "company". And in the conversation they touched on the topic of telephones, exchanged numbers and, well, they started talking over the phones. So, from his words, we in the defense industry are also using Chinese electronic filling. And he still remembers how relatively recently our specialists and organizations helped China to establish the production of electronics. He did not laugh about this. Like this. (At first I doubted about the person, you never know, he can hang noodles, and then he got on the Internet, that's right and there is such a person and a specialized university. Well, about KB, of course, you won’t really know who works there, and I don’t need to .)

[Moskovit]

Been more than once in China. Of course, the pace of development and construction is impressive. So I agree with your friend. Copying and quick implementation at their best.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

so you can laugh at him now

[nathanael]

I didn’t see them laughing but weeping .. The neighbor foolishly bought a Chinese car ... I drove for four months with laughter .. then it started ... After the first one passed, the starter fell off ... the wiring harness frayed almost burned out .. Washed by him. After washing, the car lost its original shine .. Something like this

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Nathanael

I didn’t see them laughing but weeping ..

well, those who bought cry, the rest laugh
ANY Chinese technique is something, had the "happiness" to encounter sewing equipment and printing

[spektr9]

ANY Chinese technique is something

And no matter how comfortable it is to write from a Chinese device, or it may interrupt with an Internet, Chinese equipment is also worth

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: spektr9

And no matter how comfortable it is to write from a Chinese device, or it may interrupt with an Internet, Chinese equipment is also worth

wrote nonsense easier?
This is NOT Chinese. This is Western factories in China.
I type on the clave which is still "made in china", but ...
Gembird Europe BV was founded in 1997 in the Netherlands
this company has placed factories in china so it’s cheaper, but it’s NOT CHINESE EQUIPMENT, but ASSEMBLED IN CHINA

Quote: spektr9

or maybe with an Internet interruptions

but it may well be when the CHINESE analogue is put in place of normal equipment

[spektr9]

NOT CHINESE EQUIPMENT, BUT ASSEMBLED IN CHINA

This is NOT Chinese. This is Western factories in China.

How funny you are, the entire production cycle located in China, is assembled from components manufactured in China (more than half of the technologies by which these or those components are made in China) ...
And he told me about the owners of factories (in secret, now Trump will impose sanctions and the factories will nationalize)

The CHINESE analogue is put instead of normal equipment

No, it seems that specialists need help here, to treat China-phobia

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: spektr9

How funny are you, the whole production cycle is in China

tomorrow the company will close and all that the Chinese will be able to repeat what they released they do not do new

[Setrac]

Quote: spektr9

in secret, now trump will impose sanctions and factories nationalize

Without sales outlets controlled by the Americans, the Chinese give up faster than pout.

[Runoway]

In order to compare, show the success of the Chinese aircraft in combat

[Piramidon]

leads Lenta.ru words of the American expert Tyler Rogovey.

We have only in VO such experts as a flea on a dog.

[Gogia]

The expert apparently does not know what China has done as always. Top view - Mig 1.44 and J-20
Don't you find anything in common?
Now compare with the front view of the raptor:

Well, the highlight is the horizontal sweep of the air intakes (which is a pretty controversial decision) like on the F-35. The shape of the flaps of the combat compartments and the niches of the landing gears as on the F-22 (35) chopped front edges.
Dvigun on the J-20 is clearly not Chinese. And, I think the only chance they have is to stole item 30 after ready.
That's how the Chinese rivet their fifth-generation fighter with a string of world, while our belly-belted fighter in big stars say that we do not need the SU-5 Best in the world and Su-35 ...

[Engineer]

Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

Hundreds of J-20s are certainly better than a dozen Su-57s

[RUSS]

Quote: Engineer

Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

Hundreds of J-20s are certainly better than a dozen Su-57s

Well, Borisov recently said that the tanks of Almaty are not needed in large numbers, perhaps the SU-57 too ...

[Horse, people and soul]

Quote: Engineer

Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

Hundreds of J-20s are certainly better than a dozen Su-57s

Where is it?

In a radar field in Russia? Here, a dozen Su-57s with Su-30s, along with air defense, are given to hundreds of any foreign planes.

In China? And what do we do there?



However, with skillful command, quality will always be a battered quantity. Alexander Vasilievich then spins in a coffin.

Modern warfare is a war of resources. Out of resources - lost.

[spektr9]

In a radar field in Russia? Here, a dozen Su-57s with Su-30s, along with air defense, are given to hundreds of any foreign planes.

When I read this, I understand that the scribe is already here
PS Chtol let out a battle cap that our optimists would throw hundreds of foreign planes to it

[gukoyan]

They would steal less, now Almati and PAK-FA would go into the series ... And respect to China with their reforms and progress!

[RUSS]

Quote: gukoyan

They would steal less, now Almati and PAK-FA would go into the series ... And respect to China with their reforms and progress!

It is not a matter of theft, but of priorities.

[gukoyan]

I beg you ... The great Armata that we prayed for and promoted, it turns out to be dear to us, PAK-FA was supposed to be delivered this year, I would probably keep silent about the frozen construction sites of modern ships ... And that's because there is no money. In the USSR, for a long time this whole thing in the troops went, rode and flew.

[RUSS]

Quote: gukoyan

I beg you ... The great Armata that we prayed for and promoted, it turns out to be dear to us, PAK-FA was supposed to be delivered this year, I would probably keep silent about the frozen construction sites of modern ships ... And that's because there is no money. In the USSR, for a long time this whole thing in the troops went, rode and flew.

The fact of the matter is that now apparently the priority is missile supersonic unobtrusive weapons, air defense, precision weapons, etc.
Now is not the time of the USSR and, accordingly, other threats, no one will go to Russia with a tank wedge.

[Azazelo]

The expert is probably aware of all military secrets of both Russia and China. Ai yes GURU.

[sir_obs]

the fighter has similarities with the American F-22 and F-35,

It bears a resemblance to ... an airplane in general and this absolutely does not mean anything. Everything else is fantasy on a free theme.

[Altona]

One strange thing is that this “best-in-the-world” 5th generation fighter was built by the chief designer, who later admitted that he had made a number of fatal design errors, which made the fighter look somewhat elongated. The article is posted on the same resource. "Experts", who is nevertheless lying godlessly ?????? !!!!!!!

https://topwar.ru/104605-smi-dopuscheny-kritiches
kie-proschety-pri-razrabotke-noveyshego-kitayskog
o-istrebitelya-j-20.html

[AID.S]

China's capabilities are superior to Russia. It is impossible to argue with this. We must not brag about the fact that someone is behind us yet, but the fact that we are not behind the world level or ask it. And here we are, alas, not trendsetters.

[sir_obs]

China's capabilities exceed Russia's capabilities

In some ways they are superior, in some they are inferior.
But we definitely surpass them in the number of talkers who themselves can’t do anything, but teach everyone what they themselves can’t do.

[gukoyan]

... as in the navy ...

[Beltasir matyagu]

China itself, no one without trillions of dollars poured into his pocket by the west and without technology received for free

[BAI]

The fact that China will bring the car to mind and begin mass deliveries to its army and to trade is no doubt. And in the very near future.

[Beltasir matyagu]

Up to the CHINESE mind

[ashnajder]

the person wrote on the Chinese clave)))) as the whole comp)))))) does not interfere with the Chinese mind eh?))))

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Do not underestimate the ability of the Chinese to make giant leaps in technical sciences and the development of aerospace materials.

at least one example of a jump to the studio

[Horse, people and soul]

Horse racing is in Ukraine.

[dr.star75]

We are 140 million, and the Chinese 1500 million. The Chinese are 10 times more effective than us. More evidence needed?

[another RUSICH]

That is, India is also somewhere close by technology, I understand correctly?

[dr.star75]

You are absolutely right. There is only one criterion for the effectiveness of the acquired trait: increase in population or decrease. All other comparisons are from the evil one.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

There is only one criterion for the effectiveness of the acquired trait: increase in population or decrease.

In addition to quantity, there is such a parameter as quality. You probably don’t know, but when the Russians fought with the Chinese, the Chinese could only draw in a draw if they were ten times more! What efficiency are you talking about? They have a favorable climate - so this is not their merit.

[dr.star75]

Well then, now you need to gasp! Otherwise, we lose. The population of China is growing, and Russia is declining. Or we "crave", or gradually lose.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

Otherwise, we lose.

To conduct hostilities in areas with permafrost - the same hemorrhoids - on our territory we are almost invincible.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

but as history shows, the Chinese are not able to fight on their own territory

[dr.star75]

There is no war now, but the population of China is growing, and Russia is declining, which means we are losing.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

There is no war now, but the population of China is growing, and Russia is declining, which means we are losing.

That's it, you lose, go take care of your spouse.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

The population of China is growing, and Russia is declining. Or we "crave", or gradually lose.

what are we losing - SPECIFICALLY? !!!!!
By the way, if the number is real, which many doubt, in today's war this is not an advantage, but rather a disadvantage

[dr.star75]

The disadvantage is that the mobilization resource of China is growing, and Russia is decreasing. What are we winning? Extinct earlier? I do not like this advantage! And you?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

What is the drawback?

when using WMD, significantly more serious consequences, but even without this, the transition to military rails will cause significantly more negative reactions

Quote: dr.star75

The fact that China's mobilization resource is growing

but why did you get that it is growing ?!
the Chinese had a saying that a good person would not be taken into the soldiers, the mobilization resource is not always better where there are more people

Quote: dr.star75

What do we win?

Quote: dr.star75

What do we win?

specifically what are we losing

Quote: dr.star75

will die out earlier?

Quote: dr.star75

will die out earlier?

why?!!!!

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

The fact that China's mobilization resource is growing

An army mobilized from the “Chinese peasants” and an army mobilized from the “northern barbarians” are two big differences.

[MMX]

Quote: dr.star75

You are absolutely right. There is only one criterion for the effectiveness of the acquired trait: increase in population or decrease. All other comparisons are from the evil one.

Right now, Jews have tensed up from such a conclusion, comparing their ancient history and their numbers

[dr.star75]

What did you want to say?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

There is only one criterion for the effectiveness of the acquired trait: increase in population or decrease.

stupidity, uncontrolled population growth is not a sign of perfection

[dr.star75]

"stupidity, uncontrolled population growth is not a sign of perfection" -
-Tell this to the Indians of America! They will appreciate!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

Tell it to the Indians of America! They will appreciate!

what to tell? !!!!
you are somehow weirdly debating, so one of my acquaintances acted, it answered uncomfortable questions "because gas is water", not the topic, but fell into a stupor, the Indians have nothing to do with it ?!

[Muvka]

Quote: another RUSICH

That is, India is also somewhere close by technology, I understand correctly?

Moreover, India is superior to China, in that case :)

[yehat]

the number of Chinese is greatly exaggerated, and the government is interested in overstating the data. The actual number calculated by consumption is about 800 million, which is half as much.

[dr.star75]

Oh how! and then how many of us? 40 million. Who counted by what method? How does this method correlate with real numbers?

[yehat]

this technique is comparable to the accuracy of population correspondence.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

We are 140 million, and the Chinese 1500 million. The Chinese are 10 times more effective than us. More evidence needed?

Evidence of your failure. The Chinese are not ten times more effective than us, there are ten times more of them - this is a big difference.

[dr.star75]

If you concentrate when writing a post, ordinary users will begin to understand you. Try it, be surprised!

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

Try it, be surprised!

We must not "try", but "do"

Quote: dr.star75

If you concentrate when writing a post, ordinary users will begin to understand you.

If you learn Russian, you will better understand those for whom it is native!

[dr.star75]

It seems to you not native!

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

It seems to you not native!

I immediately recall childhood, kindergarten, the boy on the contrary, not finding what to say, says - "he’s a fool." Apparently your training manual has ended since you didn’t find what to answer, it would be better if you were silent, it wouldn’t be so funny.

[Sarmat Sanych]

There are already 147 million of us, and 1380 million of Chinese. And then, there are a number of fairly well-reasoned studies that actually are about 500 billion.

[dr.star75]

Mld order?

[Sarmat Sanych]

Half a billion, sorry. On the Internet, by the way, there are a number of reasoned materials on this subject.

[dr.star75]

There are many studies on the Internet about the population of a particular country. but let's use official information, otherwise we will never get the truth.

[Setrac]

Quote: dr.star75

let's use official information

the "official information" of some states is simply not trusted, let's not replicate enemy propaganda, otherwise the FSB will be interested in you.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

We are 140 million, and the Chinese 1500 million. The Chinese are 10 times more effective than us. More evidence needed?

Excuse me, are you sure that this is called efficiency? !!!! I was sure otherwise
By the way, it’s not a fact that there are really so many of them
at 45 there was something like 400 lyamo and at 80 already over the lard, by the way before that for centuries they had not bred like rabbits, invented a new way ?!

[dr.star75]

One way for centuries. And what is the problem? In 45-400, in80- lard, what is the problem?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

45-400, v80- lard, what is the problem?

first, study the growth dynamics before, for at least 300 years, put a post-war hunger, a cultural revolution on it and compare

birth rate
In Brazil - 2,2
In China - 1,75
and now explain why, at a lower rate, the birth rate is TENS times higher

[dr.star75]

See the growth of the population of our country in the postwar years. And compare with China, and even with our today's statistics. Learn a lot of interesting things

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Are you from Odessa ?!
true questions are extremely stupid
once again due to what leaps, why not matching the coefficients and population growth ?!

[nathanael]

And who told you that the Chinese are one and a half billion. They themselves? And did you believe? ....

[dr.star75]

And who said that the Russians are 140 million? They themselves? and did you believe?

[nathanael]

Well, the Chinese can be counted, approximately, based on the data of the World Food Organization. There is one. I tried to count well, it doesn’t come out a billion .. Even if we take into account that they collect two crops of rice and plus another grain import, well, 550-600 million will be gathered. Even there’s not a billion of them all over the world .. It’s more difficult with Russians. Russia is an exporter of grain and does not much advertise its crop. Yes, and the losses are big .. But according to my calculations, we are not less than 150 million .. I understand that the calculation method is archaic but there is something. ..

[Sarmat Sanych]

We still have census data (which are held regularly and under UN control) that are completely open, both by fragments, regions and in the collection process. The process is being monitored by both WHO and UNESCO, so everyone fully confirms that there are currently 147 million of us Russians. But the Chinese people have a completely different situation, everything is extremely closed, including in certain regions, strictly speaking, no censuses have ever been conducted. Believe the CCP so to speak.

[XXXIII]

According to him, the fighter has similarities with the American F-22 and F-35, which indicates industrial espionage.

Yes, China steals everything, but the states directly create it themselves, they have never looked at the keyhole, but even in the United States an eye is drawn on the dollar in the keyhole .... ..So, when the Russians open the door with their feet, the states have a headache and their faces are all in battle scars ..... IMHO

[oh how]

China is a photocopier. I write, typing the maid in rank on the keyboard, looking at the monitor of the maid in rank. As for the article, serial is always better than the prototype. he is serial. engines by the way, they bought with 35, for the first time it’ll go.
ps Chinese seemingly scary some

[rocket757]

But reality can turn things around so that everything declared, prophesied, can be sent to the trash!
No one has yet proven anything, ads and cartoons. Yes, even the statements of all experts.

[nathanael]

This is for whom he is inconspicuous ... I’m embarrassed to ask ..

[voyaka uh]

For radio waves. They do not return to the radar that sends them. And for the radar, it is "invisible." And for your and my eyes and optical devices and systems that catch heat - is visible. Only now radars see far, but there is no optics.

[Zaurbek]

For radars, it is visible, but not from all angles equally.

[nathanael]

Yes, all these stealth technologies are one big swindle ... In the early 70s, the KGB launched a disguise that the USSR possessed such technologies And then for 15 years they watched with laughter how the Americans put out their tongues spending billions on their supposedly lag .. In the end, they did something. .Teper combed the KGB’s turnip ... Well, it’s gone. What happened and it turned out. A certain range of waves perfectly reflects this invisibility. This is what the Yugoslavs proved by knocking down such a stealth with an antediluvian Soviet-made air defense system

[voyaka uh]

"looked with laughter like the Americans" ////
----
And now the Americans are laughing at 12 prototypes "with stealth elements."
The last laughs well.

[nathanael]

Yes, not really .. The one who laughs without consequences is laughing well. And the consequences for the stealth-makers are, frankly, not ice ... Americans plotted a fleet of these hehe hes invisible. So what. They’re afraid of flying on them. I don’t hear that their invisible bombers somewhere in the exercises noted. Terrible high cost. Small resource. Computer controls the machine. Turn off the computer and kirdyk to him. Aerodynamics, a science you can’t argue with .. and she was sacrificed to invisibility .. hehe. Our people do not even make a fool of this crap, but they really build cars to gain superiority in the air. Yes, the old man Su-27 fe-35 in real aerial combat, the fluff and feathers will fly from this invisibility ... It is not suitable for air combat. After all, the Indians used amers for drying tomatoes in drying battles ... If you make them invisible then on some other physical principles .. Well, for example, the cap is invisible And do not try change the laws of aerodynamics

[Mentat]

Quote: Skarpzd

crappy compared to what? in what price segment?

Check out the statistics of sales of the Chinese auto industry in the world. Probably for you it will be a shock against the backdrop of marketing delights in the promotion of Chinese cars.

[voyaka uh]

In 2017, China produced
more than 28 million cars and pickups.
Exported 700,000.
Imported 1 million

[Skarpzd]

and why do I need these statistics? I have eyes. and if about 10 years ago a Chinese car gathered around him a bunch of people, like some kind of jaguar, now now on the roads of Siberia (I think and not only) they ride well, a lot.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Skarpzd

if about 10 years ago, a Chinese car gathered around him a bunch of people

where did these buckets around them gather the crowd?

[Skarpzd]

in Siberia, it’s written. By the way, these buckets are no more than buckets than VAZ products.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Skarpzd

no more buckets than VAZ products.

for more, but about Siberia, forgive me that the wild ones live, when the Chinas appeared in Kazakhstan, no one even looked at them, well, it bursts and creaks.

[Sergei75]

Let's not underestimate our current friend, they are trying, they are doing a lot and everything is going according to Marx - the quantity is already starting to turn into quality, all the more. that from one article yesterday I learned why we are developing a new heavy rocket, and we cannot revive the production of Energy, due to the fact that production technologies and engines in particular have been lost.
It turns out that China is developing, but we are already degrading, and something needs to be done.

[Tarasios]

Quote: Black Sniper

By the way, the article does not indicate why this J-20 is better than the Su-57 !!!

because in a famous joke, to paraphrase a little: why is the J-20 better than better? Better than Su-57 !!!
What’s more? ;)

[yehat]

the article says that they believe in an evil Chinese genius, who, when the PAK FA program stagnates, will outstrip both the su-57 and the American program of pregnant penguins.

[Beltasir matyagu]

Did the expert compare? It's called sharing the skin of an unkilled bear

[Horse, people and soul]

China will only succeed for a long time imitate other people's developments. Exactly imitate.

So the Americans self-deceived in both cases - about the quality of the Chinese aircraft and the alleged qualities of the Su-57.

[Hadji Murat]

amer observed two extremes, they extol our technology to heaven then cry .....

[bratchanin3]

Well, yes, if a Chinese is like an American, then he (J20) is better than Russian by definition. Drain beech due to some American iksperd.

[Mentat]

Quote: Leshy1975

Quote: Moskovit

Yes, and now you can laugh. Bad cars.

I don’t know about cars, I didn’t go. But last week fate brought one man together. He works as a teacher at the university and in one design bureau for the defense industry, at the well-known "company". And in the conversation they touched on the topic of telephones, exchanged numbers and, well, they started talking over the phones. So, from his words, we in the defense industry are also using Chinese electronic filling.

Apparently, he was referring to the converted American filling.

And he still remembers how relatively recently our specialists and organizations helped China to establish the production of electronics. He did not laugh about this. Like this. (At first I doubted the person, you never know, maybe they hang noodles

He doesn’t laugh already, yes ... The Americans, who began to help instead of us ... um, sorry, earn and tear three skins from the Chinese due to the destruction of all living things around the factories and the meager salaries of the workers, now they are tearing their hair at their opera, screaming that the Chinese are stealing their technology. And they never smile, oddly enough. But the noodles do not need to hang, really, it’s not beautiful hanging on the ears.

[Mentat]

Quote: voyaka uh

In 2017, China produced
more than 28 million cars and pickups.
Exported 700,000.
Imported 1 million

If we add to this the regional distribution, the picture will become even clearer, but it is also clear that the Chinese auto industry is working on the domestic market. And only in the minds of individuals overtaken by marketers exists outside of China.
You can see the dynamics in Russia, also interesting.

[voyaka uh]

At first, the Japanese worked on the domestic market. Their export models caused only ridicule in the 70s.

[123456789]

Expert: Chinese J-20 is better than Russian Su-57

Only real air combat will show which is better.

[HMR333]

where they get these diplomas and who calls them experts they know about aviation no more than me! they made a bunch of what kind of heap how do you know who and how much did you make if they are classified and only those shots that they themselves throw in get !?

[Mentat]

Quote: Sergei75

Let's not underestimate our current friend, they are trying, they are doing a lot and everything is going according to Marx - the quantity is already starting to turn into quality, all the more. that from one article yesterday I learned why we are developing a new heavy rocket, and we cannot revive the production of Energy, due to the fact that production technologies and engines in particular have been lost.
It turns out that China is developing, but we are already degrading, and something needs to be done.

Do not wikipedia with such intensity.
Technologies could not be lost, of course, because design documentation has been preserved, some process chains and production have been lost. Read the sources carefully and think about what is written there.

[iouris]

Topic of discussion: round better than white, or vice versa? The question is: who will first blink and give oak. If the "elite" once again ... eats the country in which we all live, then military technology will not help.

[sib.ataman]

Another connoisseur uncorked. What would shut him up?

[rehev931]

increased invisibility is especially promoted by the ventral fins

[Zaurbek]

1.We see only STELS contours and black coating .... and we do not see them on the Su-57
2. We do not know the capabilities of the avionics of the Chinese and we know from the example of the "ancestors" of the Su-57 (MiG31 and Su-27/30 / 35C).
3. We know about trial AFAR both there and there, but China has an element base, and we have long-standing experience in operating VFAR.
4. We know about engines
5. You can compare maneuverability.
5. Silence about weapons.

[Kent0001]

Some kind of plywood craft with obscure engines and a resource of 10 flights. And do not say the opposite, the way it is. If we do not do SU-57 due to some reasons, this does not mean that such crafts are drop dead by definition.

[Adimius38]

Well, what did you want, when there is money and the care of the state, then everything develops as in the PRC, and when some show-offs and all the latest developments stupidly stagnate, as in the Russian Federation, then there is no development, and yesterday's victories cease to be such. Russia will lag behind not only from China, but also from much less developed countries. I am 100% sure that the 5th generation of the Chinese fighter does not spare money, and this is the constant improvement of the machine, plus everything he sees the series, which can not be said about the su-57. The unenviable position of the armata tank, it is unlikely that this machine will be in a large series, we were clearly told that there was no need for this machine yet, such words as cutting a branch underneath, by direct actions hinder military technical development.

[Awaz]

the most unpleasant thing is that the Chinese learn and study and someday learn. And what they have now is just fakes and copies of what they managed to steal from the Americans.
Hashtag: invisibility has long been outdated and has outlived itself, turning into stealth. At one time, all Soviet tanks also had stealth, thanks to the low profile of the products, but modern means of fighting tanks have long leveled this advantage.
The most important component of a weapon is its ability to carry out a combat mission and survive.
At the moment, neither the United States nor even China, have the experience of fighting with an equal enemy and have absolutely no idea how their equipment will behave if the enemy provides adequate resistance. By the way, Russia is also not fighting with anyone, and there is also not much experience in this regard.
So all these topics with the Fifth or sixth generation are stupid sawing dough.
It would not seem silly, but in Russia at the moment, it’s easier to actually create a dozen other aircraft of the so-called fifth generation to train air defense systems to deal with them. Well, and, as it were, I also agree that they can use some kind of new technology, at least to develop motor technologies. Chasing the United States on this topic is generally considered stupid.
Although something new and interesting for anyone needs to be developed ..

[Royalist]

J20 is a copy from something, the Chinese are copy masters, and the copy does not always correspond to the original. A cousin was in Afghanistan and talked about the Chinese “Kalash”: he looks good and even the latest models are prettier and more comfortable than ours, but the metal is worse, the voice is “dribbling,” the box is hacky. it was on the radio here): the Chinese saw Gagarin’s spacesuit and copied one to one, but the helmet wasn’t comfortable on the first suits and the astronauts put foam rubber under his beard so that he wouldn’t beat his teeth. Naturally, the museum didn’t have foam rubber even (in Chinese cosmos (vastness) paid with their own teeth for the fact that the copiers did not know about the foam rubber. And the Chinese scooters are beautiful and comfortable, but the engine lacks gas and will not pull more than 65 km. The neighbor had one and he sold it in a couple of years, apparently very "liked".
So I would not be in a hurry to admire the J20.

[Ros 56]

These stupid experts are steeped. China still flies on the counterpart of our Tu-16. Almost all the equipment is either stolen or licensed, and there, it’s better than the Russian one. Meli Emelya, your week.

[Prisoner]

"American expert" becomes an abusive word and can even be considered an insult. But Chinese industrial escalation needs to be curbed. Impudently not childish!

[Nariman Shaimulikov]

All Southeast Asia workaholics, like the whole "civilized" world, to create a Su-57 and engines with a variable thrust vector in 2 planes, you need to be a bit lazy traveling. In J-20, I see a copy of Rafaley and Sushki, all this crap with the 5th fifth generation does not seem to me to be developed, it’s just a test of new technologies and schemes. The raptor wing pilots already complain that it costs them to cross the Syrian border from Saudi Arabia, so immediately from anywhere out of nowhere Drying VKS are attached to them.
30-year-old Su-27s and MiG-29s can easily do Pugachev’s cobra in experienced hands, which is not solved on new fighters of the whole world, but what Su-30,32,35 or MiG-35 are doing now is generally nonsense.

[spektr9]

While you think that

all this crap with the 5th generation seems to me not to be developed, so only a test of new technologies and schemes

The world is steadily purchasing f-35s, and everyone who has at least some weight in the political arena. The Chinese are planing the J-20 .. We are telling tales that stealth is not needed and everything in the world, isn’t it funny?

[Ace Tambourine]

Oppody .... And where to hide from such PGO from radars?
The 35th will be even more serious ...

[APASUS]

What is an interesting article, and specifically in the approach to the problem.
They usually write about Russian weapons and airplanes to knock money out of Congress. They don’t write about Chinese weapons, although they emphasize superiority over Russian aircraft, and why?
The material is so rotten and custom .......... about anything

[dr.star75]

edasko,
Vasilenko Vladimir,
not only more industry opportunities!

[dr.star75]

Vasilenko Vladimir
Well, why then did the Mistals order?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

Well, why then did the Mistals order?

no one knows, well, except for the stool

[dr.star75]

Well, of course, that’s why bulk carriers for the Syrian express are now fracturing. But what will the Defense Ministry do during the war? It will not work to ship these ships. what will we carry the goods?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

And what will the MO do during the war?

Before asking such a stupid question on the MILITARY website, tell us for which theater of war to plan, goals and objectives of the war

[dr.star75]

Sakhalin defense for example, or Kamchatka. Will it fit?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: dr.star75

Sakhalin defense for example, or Kamchatka. Will it fit?

and why the hell are you an aircraft carrier ?!
Michael tie you are so nonsense and stupid that I don’t even see the point
with whom exactly are you going to fight on Sakhalin, what time of year is a local conflict or global war? !!!
your question is akin to a child who is stronger than an elephant or a whale?

[dr.star75]

Vasilenko Vladimir,
Yeah no money and no need

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

what are you talking about?
please attach quotes

[Cobra77]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Do not underestimate the ability of the Chinese to make giant leaps in technical sciences and the development of aerospace materials.

at least one example of a jump to the studio

Microelectronics, communications. They have a lot of their own, but they were based on copies of Western ones, and in the 30s and 40s we copied a lot, and then they weren’t shy. Why completely reinvent the wheel if your neighbor has one, copy it, take into account his mistakes, improve it. And now you already have a good one.

Unfortunately, all our polymers were wasted and they sat on the pipe. And all this import substitution has turned into banal re-gluing of nameplates from Chinese goods.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: cobra77

Microelectronics, communications. They have a lot of their own, but they were based on copies of Western ones, and in the 30s and 40s we copied a lot, and then they weren’t shy. Why completely reinvent the wheel if your neighbor has one, copy it, take into account his mistakes, improve it. And now you already have a good one.

that’s not true, having copied 386 percent, they didn’t develop their own 486 or stump, they again copy, this is not a breakthrough
when the Union stole the technology of the atomic bomb from the Amers, then there were our developments, we would have made a bomb, the problem was time, and the Chinese continue to copy

Quote: cobra77

Unfortunately, all our polymers were wasted and they sat on the pipe. And all this import substitution has turned into banal re-gluing of nameplates from Chinese goods.

that's another problem

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

what are they doing?!

[mvg]

An article for urra-itiots... on the way.

[massad1]

dr.star75,
Of course, our surface fleet is lousy in terms of the number of units under construction and delivery deadlines, but I wouldn’t praise the Chinese for outright surpassing us everywhere. You somehow jump from one to the other, let’s separate the navy from the aviation, firstly, secondly, tell me the countries that are massively armed with 5th generation serial fighters, I emphasize the 5th, and not the declared 5th th. You don’t have to give the example with the penguin, because... this is the world’s largest scam for drinking money and selling outright slag to vassals, what is the cost of just the process of adopting them into service, I won’t go into depth - it’s been sucked a thousand times. Further, yes, the Chinese have the ability to mass produce anything, but as people correctly wrote here, they have problems with materials science, and I think designing any airframe with modern computing power is not the most difficult thing in this complex. Plus intelligence will bring something, not without that. They will not be able to reproduce serious technologies for a very long time, if only because, after all, it is not fools who develop them, and accordingly protect them, but they still have a hard time with independent development, no matter what you say.
Now let's get back to our problems. Remember how in the 50-60s the USSR relied on the submarine fleet and missile weapons, incl. and means of delivery. Doesn't remind you of anything? How many projects on the surface fleet were cut down on the vine. The same "Kuznetsov" should have been somewhat different according to the original plan. And "Ulyanovsk" for which metal was already prepared? Then the country disappeared and they dragged everyone and everything wherever they could. The same “Varyag”, which is now “Liao-Ning”, Kuchma pushed under the sound of the surf, and we were told that for the price of scrap metal, but Russia did not need it then, there was no time for that. We still have a big bias in favor of the submarine fleet, in terms of construction priority, but it has always been there. I think the main mistake, and in this regard I completely agree with you, is the situation with ship engines. This is called a freebie backfire. It was necessary to launch our own capacities as soon as the opportunity arose, and not to purchase cheaply from Ukraine, because it was convenient. And don’t say that Russia is now incapable of launching serious production capacities. As an example, I’ll give you how they dragged what was left of TAPOiCh to Ulyanovsk, and most importantly, they dragged people from there and it’s clear that they didn’t come out of nowhere, but they started making ILs 76th. Our main problem is that none of the management wants to scratch themselves in advance; actions begin when the pressure is on. Separately, I would like to talk about Poliment, in order to throw out all the stones from my garden that you threw there. Well, what can I say, I don’t understand at all why they spent so much time mucking about this complex and after all this, no one from the management of Almaz-Antey suffered anal punishment??? This is, of course, outright sabotage; this should not happen under any circumstances!
Yes, also about aircraft carriers and Mistrals. The purchase of these two steamships from the paddling pools, I think, was Sarkozy’s payoff for the fact that France mediated after the Georgians were put in their place. There is nothing super-superwunderwafer in these ships. These DKVDs are essentially a means of transporting an expeditionary force. Tell me please, are we planning to colonize someone? And driving such a fool empty and maintaining her is oh so expensive. And the AUG tactics, it seems to me, have somewhat outlived their usefulness. Firstly, this is a rather bulky formation and at the moment it is more of a good target. Well, it is also undoubtedly suitable as a means for enslaving the Papuans. I repeat, having the means to guarantee the defeat of such garbage, you don’t have to worry that they’ll even try to get in the way. Their computers also calculate the options. I don’t know about the Chinese, but the Americans will never interfere unless they are 146% sure of the result; it’s easier for them to carry out intrigues to change power in the target state, stir up revolutions and other nasty things. The tactics have been studied and worn out to the point of disgrace and they will not change it as long as it works

[tolmachiev51]

American "forecasts" are designed for only one thing - "give more money for your own developments"!!! Psychics! - determine by appearance what is better and what is worse!?

[nikoliski]

If the Indian Su-30MKI had not detected it from 100 kilometers over Tibet, I would almost believe that it was “stealth”, the aircraft radar is much weaker than, say, the radar of the S-400 division, so it will be detected like all “invisible” radars with 230 km at medium altitudes and annihilate along with everyone else.

[atakan]

edasko,
They’ll finish it, they’ll finish it, but there’s no money. Have a good mood.

[Ingvar 72]

Setrac,
You are a little behind. Lenovo, Meizu, Xiomi - look at the sales charts by year and by country. Nokia and Philips are already at the bottom of the list. But all the filling in them is Chinese. Even Apple orders hardware from China.
And yes, Sergey, I am not at all happy that all the equipment around us is from China.

[Mentat]

Quote: voyaka uh

At first, the Japanese worked on the domestic market. Their export models caused only ridicule in the 70s.

The situation there was a little bit different. Read what kind of engines are used in the Chinese automobile industry and where the design comes from.
In the USSR, by the way, the situation was somewhat similar, but the reasons were radically different. Personal transport was given negligible importance, because the emphasis was on the public. True, these ideas were ahead of their time lot. And now they are being returned to again all over the world.

[Mentat]

Quote: spektr9

While you think that

all this crap with the 5th generation seems to me not to be developed, so only a test of new technologies and schemes

The world is steadily purchasing f-35s, and everyone who has at least some weight in the political arena. The Chinese are planing the J-20 .. We are telling tales that stealth is not needed and everything in the world, isn’t it funny?

If you read your comments, yes, you can find a lot of funny things.
The world is being heavily sold on the F-35. The Australians and Canadians wanted to jump off and raised scandals, but nothing came of it.

[XXTexDemonXX]

That's right, they're selling the F-35.

[Mentat]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Setrac,
You are a little behind. Lenovo, Meizu, Xiomi - look at the sales charts by year and by country. Nokia and Philips are already at the bottom of the list. But all the filling in them is Chinese. Even Apple orders hardware from China.
And yes, Sergey, I am not at all happy that all the equipment around us is from China.

Are you kidding or is your horizons really that narrowed? What is inside Lenovo, Meizu, Xiomi (omg)? The whole filling is America, Japan, Korea, which is America again. What's Chinese, the bends of the plastic of the two lids on top? Special Chinese Android? What exactly?
There is NOTHING truly Chinese on the market yet. This is not some kind of humiliation of China, just a fact to which it is not clear why one should turn a blind eye. The Chinese will roll out their processor, OS, unique device - well, great, what's wrong? But at the moment it's just a giant stream of clones.

PS Lenovo is a mobile devices business bought from IBM, so even the design of laptops is not originally Chinese.

[region58]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But all the filling in them is Chinese.

Quote: Mentat

What is inside Lenovo, Meizu, Xiomi (omg)? The whole filling is America, Japan, Korea, which is America again. What's Chinese, the bends of the plastic of the two lids on top? Special Chinese Android? What exactly?

About the iPhone, which is "all Chinese" (and, I think, not only on it), this is the situation:
Audio path (chip) and codec: Cirrus Logic in the USA (outsourcing).
Radio module: Qualcomm in the USA (outsourcing).
Battery: Samsung in South Korea, Huizhou Desay Battery in China.
Cameras: Sony in Japan, OmniVision from the United States produces the FaceTime front-facing camera chip, however, the Taiwanese company TMSC is the subcontractor for its manufacture.
Chipsets and processors: Samsung in South Korea and TSMC in Taiwan. Together with a partner company GlobalFoundries, located in the United States.
Controller chips: PMC Sierra and Broadcom Corp in the USA (outsourcing).
Screen: Japan Display and Sharp in Japan, LG Display in South Korea.
Random Access Memory (DRAM): TSMC in Taiwan. SK Hynix in South Korea.
Electronic compass: Alps Electric in Japan.
Fingerprint Scanner: Authentec collects it in China, but the production is located in Taiwan.
Built-in memory: Toshiba in Japan and Samsung in South Korea.
Gyroscope: STMicroelectronics in France and Italy.
Induction coil (audio): TDK in Japan.
Main skid assembly: Foxconn and Pegatron in China.
Mixed Signal Processing Chips (e.g. NFC): NXP in the Netherlands.
Plastic case and other parts (for iPhone 5c): Hi-P and Green Point in Singapore.
Radio Frequency Modules: Win Semiconductors (Avago and RF Micro Devices Module Manufacturers) in Taiwan. Avago technologies and TriQuint Semiconductor in the USA. Qualcomm in the US for the LTE module.
Protective glass for display: Corning Gorilla Glass in the USA. GT Advanced Technologies produces sapphire crystals for screens.
Semiconductors: Texas Instruments, Fairchild, and Maxim Integrated in the USA.
Touch ID Scanner: TSMC and Xintec in Taiwan.
Touch screen controller: Broadcom in the USA (outsourcing).
Transmitting and amplifying modules: Skyworks and Qorvo in the USA (outsourcing).

[Sedoy]

well... who would doubt that China will move forward, not now but tomorrow... :)
Considering that having spent 2 billion dollars on the development of armatures, after 8 years they found out that they are very expensive and there is no money for them...
those. the money went somewhere, and the “product” was made only for the parade... :)

the same song with the Su-57...
how many of them are planned there - a dozen or so... :)
an excellent start-up for cutting dough...

Those in power are not even traitors, but enemies, and they are already openly declaring this... :)

[XXTexDemonXX]

You probably don't know how to Read or Listen. No one said that there was no money for them.
It was said that they would not be purchased in large quantities, since at the moment there is no great need for them. The Su-30 and T72b3 suit the military in terms of efficiency. At the moment, all the forces of the Factories have been devoted to Modernization.

[EvilLion]

The expert is kind of strange, we need to shout that the Russians are going to grab everyone, we are urgently increasing military orders.

[shark]

edasko,
Yes, let the Chinese take Russia. This is the best solution for Russia.

[pafegosoff]

Who measured the EPR of this Chinese halabuda?
In prin

[shans2]

That’s why the Chinese bought Su-35 from us in order to boldly patrol where there are Americans, and on this dull threshing floor they will fly at Chinese parades).

[tezey]

It would be interesting to know where The National Interest magazine recruits such grief experts. There is no hint of expert assessment in this article. How does Mr. Rogoway know that the advantages of the Chengdu J-20 include stealth. He measured this stealth, or the CIA agents measured it. And if they measured it, the numbers should have been named. According to him, the fighter is similar to the American F-22 and F-35, which indicates industrial espionage. Apparently Mr. Rogoway had never seen these planes even on the Internet, or when he wrote the article he drank too much bourbon. In short, this expert does not have any information that would allow him to compare the two machines, and his entire article is nothing more than the chatter of an amateur, unworthy of reading.

[kutuz]

“The Chinese J-20 is better than the Russian Su-57” - no one doubted this.

[Andrey Nikulnikov]

No engine, no plane. They even install our engines on their copies of the Su-27.

[Berkut24]

I still don’t understand who this expert wanted to scare. The Chinese have not presented anything other than advertising and pictures; no one will ever give data on the Su-57. Is the American trying to say that through reverse engineering the Chinese have begun to make things better than the original?
By the way, as a result of purging the J-20 model, experts immediately said that according to the airframe, this cow was never a fighter, but most likely a bomber intended for attacks on ships at sea.

[Note 2]

I don’t understand why the site retells the opinion of some wretched armchair experts from the USA? To judge one or the other car, you need to fly both or at least find out the opinion of the people who drove them. And what this “specialist” says is just a shock of air, nothing more .

[XXTexDemonXX]

Judging by the color, there is very little composite, essentially the 4th generation, I don’t agree about “Low visibility”.
The same Su-57 Almost solid Composite. http://i.ucrazy.ru/files/i/2013.2.23/1361596731_9.jpg
Don't pay attention to the Aluminum nose cone, this is the version without AFAR.

[av58]

The Americans, of course, know better. If they say that the Chinese plane is better, and the Su-57 is “stagnating to the point of uselessness,” then it is so.

[viktor_ui]

Luneberg lens...do we have something similar? Or our generals don’t really need this device... just like thermal imagers with drones in the army used to be. Is there anyone who knows the topic?