Military Review

Russian Defense Ministry is testing two Italian heavy armored vehicles

41
Russian Defense Ministry is testing two Italian heavy armored vehicles

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in Bronnitsy near Moscow conducts assessment tests of two Italian heavy wheeled armored vehicles of the B1 "Centaur" (Centauro) type, also classified as fighter tanks. This was reported today by ITAR-TASS a source in the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation.
“Testing of armored vehicles produced by the Iveco-Fiat / Oto Melara consortium (Iveco Fiat-Oto Melara) has been carried out for several days with high intensity day and night, all systems, assemblies and machinery mechanisms are subjected to rigorous testing,” said the source.

He, however, did not specify whether the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation plans to purchase a license from Italy for the production of such machines at Russian factories.
The armored vehicles are armed with various guns: the 105 mm caliber gun is mounted on one of the machines, the 120 mm is specified on the other, the source specified. And it is the 120-millimeter gun that provides the armored vehicle with firepower at the level of modern main battle tanks.

According to open sources, the combat weight of the Chentauro with 105-mm guns is 25 t, the speed is up to 100 km / h, the crew of the 4 person.
Armored "Chentauro", according to experts, has high maneuverability and good handling. However, their disadvantages include weak booking, which protects only from bullets of large-caliber machine guns.

"Chentauro" was used in Yugoslavia, Somalia and Iraq. Moreover, armored vehicles of the Italian army, which participated in peacekeeping operations in the Balkans, were equipped with additional armor.

Currently, Chentauro is used as part of the UN military contingent in Lebanon.

The company "Oto Melara" is included in the Italian concern "Finmeccanica". Chentauro type armored vehicles are manufactured by Iveco-Fiat from 1991.
Tests of armored vehicles are conducted at the test site of the 21-th Scientific Research Testing Institute of the Russian Defense Ministry. One of the main activities of this research institute is the development of tactical and technical tasks for almost all types of domestic military vehicles.
Originator:
http://www.itar-tass.com
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  1. cobra66
    cobra66 16 May 2012 12: 47
    +4
    You can create your own version, take the best from these models
    1. Dmitriy69
      Dmitriy69 16 May 2012 12: 51
      +18
      You need to take the best where it is, and here you can only see what is bad so that the rake on the tege does not come on by accident.
      1. cobra66
        cobra66 16 May 2012 13: 14
        +2
        To take the best lies in the fact that you don’t have to do that at all, let’s allow a very powerful gun to be set, because of which everything will have to be heavier
        1. Igorboss16
          Igorboss16 16 May 2012 14: 01
          +2
          to scrap them immediately, this is the business of our designers, and they have more than enough experience to make the equipment better by the head, this is how, after this, our ministers should not be considered traitors when they drive their own military industrial complex into the grave and leave people without bread
        2. 755962
          755962 16 May 2012 14: 05
          +10
          Explanations for the procurement of foreign equipment Under the previous conditions, the creation of fundamentally new models was fundamentally impossible, since the ordering system remained Soviet, the initiatives of enterprises (especially private ones!) Were not provided, and the ordering bodies of the Ministry of Defense were rapidly degrading in parallel with the defense industry. As a result, our developers have largely lost touch with reality. In Soviet times, this connection was provided by the units of the scientific and technical intelligence of the GRU and the KGB, the participation of our servicemen in conflicts around the world. Now these channels have dried up. The world has changed radically. In Italy, there are agreements between the leadership of both sides on a whole package of measures, including Iveco, Centauro, Frechia, naval artillery and other components. Similarly, in France, where the Mistral contract entailed a series of related contacts for communications, ACCS, SIBE, etc. We are working with Germany, Finland, BAE Sys, GD, IMI and other entities. Such issues are not resolved in three days. It takes patience, perseverance and time. But there is no other way. Either we are equally (and with equal openness) integrated into the high-tech arms sector, or we will be killed by China and other "partners" in the markets for "economy class" weapons and military equipment and weapons "for the poor." This is one of the most adequate explanations for this. http://twower.livejournal.com/799711.html
          1. esaul
            esaul 16 May 2012 14: 16
            +3
            Quote: 755962
            . As a result, our developers have largely lost touch with reality.

            Eugene welcome and support your post, only in this phrase I would highlight the words MUCH in order to avoid reproaches in the sweeping and generalized okhayanie. South African and Italian wheeled cannon platforms do not consider it shameful to take the world's most powerful armies, including the states, as a model. So here from this testing is only useful for creating your car, if such a question arises.
            1. 755962
              755962 16 May 2012 15: 00
              +2
              Greetings, Valery! Here I am about it
              Quote: esaul
              only good for creating your car, if such a question arises.

              Personally, I believe D. Rogozin
              Foreign weapons can only be purchased to create joint ventures and technology development
              As noted by "Actual Comments", earlier Rogozin has already stated that Russia needs to abandon the idea of ​​purchasing foreign weapons and military equipment and consider this issue only as an exception.
          2. Kars
            Kars 16 May 2012 14: 30
            +6
            But is it not naive to think that someone, especially NATO countries will sell unit samples of the latest technology? Personally, I would not sell. And the Centaur is an outdated model.
            1. YARY
              YARY 16 May 2012 14: 45
              +4
              Uv namesake
              .A Centaur is an obsolete pattern.


              And how many years is the T-72?And sixties? what
              Our own park compared to the Centaur (in Russian, let’s do it) grandfather. And the T90 is just deep modernization of this grandfather, well, considering that we never had this class of technology it’s generally not necessary to enter data into the comparison.
              But what will be our modernized Centaur is still a question. recourse
              1. Kars
                Kars 16 May 2012 14: 56
                +3
                Quote: Ardent
                And how many years is the T-72? And sixties?

                So then can you buy the Chieftains or Merkava 2? Are they the same age with the T-72
                This is not talking about the fact that the T-72 is the second generation of post-war tanks, and Leclerc and Oplot who consider 3 ++ who are the 4 generation.
                Quote: Ardent
                we never had this class of technology

                I repeat the question, I asked several times --- WHAT IS CENTAUR special?
                What .. feature ..? And this provided that the South African wheeled tanks were available for research after the fighting in Angola. 152 mm SPG Dana was also tested in the USSR.
                1. YARY
                  YARY 16 May 2012 15: 12
                  +1
                  About South Africa I will say one thing, our troops burned them and the opinion about them is "fast, but they burn easily"
                  And from the positive, "we would have a dozen"
                  Those who survived after the South African breakthrough told a lot.
                  Now that
                  -What is special in CENTAUR?
                  What .. feature ..

                  Maneuverability and speed once and ground pressure are two. In my private correspondence, I talked about this. Although I’m not sure what you need.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 16 May 2012 15: 48
                    +3
                    Quote: Ardent
                    And from the positive, "we would have a dozen"

                    Chegozh then they were not built?
                    Quote: Ardent
                    Maneuverability and speed once and ground pressure are two.
                    these are characteristics, and I mean that they are special, what secret technologies are used in the Centaur, to achieve maneuverability, speed and pressure on the ground, that the Russian Federation needs to be purchased and copied. What is there that is not there in Ruikat, which the Allied specialists had And this is when in the Russian Federation there is enormous experience in the construction of wheeled vehicles in the form of ICBM transporters. I will not be afraid of such an expression --- if the customer of the Ukrainian defense industry would give a car better than this Centaur.
              2. atesterev
                atesterev 16 May 2012 16: 52
                -1
                Well, probably, the T-72 is not grandfather, but the T-90 father!
              3. Cadet787
                Cadet787 16 May 2012 18: 16
                -2
                Guys, what is happening with the once tank power of the world, which had its own tank cities. Today we, in some miraculous way, have to climb the world's garbage dumps in search of what is not clear, and someone will not give us new technologies, especially in the military sphere. What can be useful for the Russian Armed Forces to give an illiterate "stooltkin" or Katya, the head of military education. GDP, open your eyes and see what's going on around. With regret.
            2. esaul
              esaul 16 May 2012 17: 13
              0
              Quote: Kars
              But is it not naive to think that someone, especially NATO countries will sell unit samples of the latest technology? Personally, I would not sell. A Centaur is an outdated model

              Andrey, good afternoon. After all, our naivets are not so deceiving as to the novelty of the technologies being sold to us. But, we did not have such a class of cars. It is necessary to determine the appropriateness of adopting such a miracle (for which testing is carried out) and start somewhere. At one time, the USSR began machine tool construction with German tractors.
              1. Kars
                Kars 16 May 2012 17: 22
                +2
                Quote: esaul
                At one time, the USSR began machine tool construction with German tractors.

                And not only, KAMU should not be forgotten. But then there were common interests between Germany and the USSR.
                Quote: esaul
                It is necessary to determine the appropriateness of adopting such a miracle (for which testing is carried out)

                The Yuarovsky Ruikat was tested in the USSR in the middle of the 80's with the 90 mm gun.
                Experience in combat use, and there was also a collision with it.


                And to take into service, even I don’t know --- a MOS with an anti-tank gun is somehow not very. A mortar gun like NONA has the best data.
                Quote: esaul
                Not so much as our naivets to deceive ourselves about the novelty of the technologies sold to us

                Yes, I somehow do not think that at least the same France will sell TIUS from Leclerc.
                1. esaul
                  esaul 16 May 2012 18: 19
                  +1
                  Andrey, thank you for the information and the calm, balanced dialogue. I learned interesting facts for myself and enjoyed the informative and friendly commentary. For you, the "tank" theme is a pretty close concept, apparently. Good luck in your business, colleague. smile
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 16 May 2012 18: 22
                    +2
                    Always please, it’s a pity that the tank ones are less and less, and the geopolitical ones are more and more.
          3. Esso
            Esso 16 May 2012 18: 39
            0
            More news! Rogozin will not allow the purchase of Italian wheeled tanks
            After firing at a firing range near Moscow, two samples of Italian Centauro wheeled tanks, which the Ministry of Defense purchased for familiarization and possible purchase of a whole batch for the needs of the troops, will be transferred to the category of experimental specimens to improve the Russian defense industry, Izvestia writes.
            “Despite the desire of the Chief of General Staff Nikolai Makarov and former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov to push Italian armored vehicles into the troops, it will not be implemented at the level of Dmitry Rogozin, who will now oversee the purchase of equipment for the troops. Prototypes will be sent to industry representatives for study, ”said a source in the General Staff.
            According to him, in addition to Alabino, where they will examine the ability of the machine to move and shoot, the Centaur will be tested at a training ground near Kubinka, where its security will be checked, and in Bronnitsy, where an obstacle course for wheeled vehicles has been created. Two samples are involved in the tests - one with a 105 mm caliber gun and the other with a 125 mm caliber. In addition to these two armored cars, the purchase contract provides for the delivery of two more of the same vehicles.
            The Main Automobile Armored Directorate confirmed that they did not plan to equip parts with Centauro machines. However, this decision will be finalized after the shooting.
            “Based on the test results, final decisions will be made. Now we don’t know anything about the supply of Centauro to the troops, ”said the representative of GABTU.
            At the headquarters of the Land Forces, which could get an Italian tank, could not assess the prospects of this machine in the ranks.
            “We recently refused to buy our domestic BTR-90, which also has a powerful gun. Do we need such a machine and how to fight it, try to understand during the tests. So far, there are no assessments, ”said a high-ranking representative of the Ground Forces.
            According to him, the only thing that Centauro surpasses the tanks, is the crew survivability when a landmine is undermined. “When the bottom is undermined, the crew of the tracked vehicle dies, as a powerful blow to the tracks causes a pressure drop. At the wheeled car just tears off the wheels. But there is significantly less armor there. ”
            According to tank expert and editor-in-chief of Arsenal of Fatherland magazine Viktor Murakhovsky, Centauro could supplement armored troops as a maneuverable and powerful defense machine.
            "Centaurs" move almost three times faster than tanks. They could be used to quickly move to hazardous areas. Of course, this machine is not capable of completely replacing the tanks, ”explained Murakhovsky.
            According to him, as a material for the study, Centauro will be useful for the Russian defense industry in creating the Boomerang wheeled platform.
            "The interest of the designers will be caused by various engineering solutions that the Italians used: the design of the transmission, the location of the compartments and systems, the stabilization device that allows the car to remain on the wheels after the shot," Murakhovsky explained.
            According to him, it is expected that the first to get access to the machines will be the specialists of the 21 test institute of the Ministry of Defense, then the equipment will be given to the Military Industrial Company, which makes the BTR, Tigers and other wheeled armored vehicles, Izvestia writes.
            On Saturday, Yury Borisov, first deputy chairman of the military-industrial commission under the Russian government, said that the Russian military had long talked about wanting to use wheeled tanks.
            1. Kars
              Kars 16 May 2012 20: 17
              +2
              Quote: Esso
              General Staff Nikolai Makarov and ex-Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov smuggled into the army


              Focus failed, villa in Neapal will not be given bully
              Quote: Esso
              "The interest of the designers will be caused by various engineering solutions that the Italians used: the design of the transmission, the location of the compartments and systems, the stabilization device that allows the car to remain on the wheels after the shot," Murakhovsky explained.


              called a good mine in a bad game.
              Quote: Esso
              “If the crew of the tracked vehicle is undermined, it dies, because a powerful blow to the tracks causes a pressure drop.


              Well, this is pure nonsense.
        3. SergeySK
          SergeySK 16 May 2012 14: 08
          -1
          cobra66

          You are already sleeping in your slippers, and "Sprut and Sprut - K" with a 122 mm cannon are running around!

          And they don’t want to take the best, but you can see how cheaper it is!
          1. YARY
            YARY 16 May 2012 14: 32
            +1
            Currently, Chentauro is used as part of the UN military contingent in Lebanon.

            html

            This is the answer to opponents arguing about the need for this technique!
            I don’t know what will happen next and what the MO will do under the leadership of Sir Duke and Mac Karov. But it’s stupid to copy, it’s too public, and nobody canceled the patent law.
            To use the license for our Russian modernization, I consider it the most optimal solution.
            1. Vashestambid
              Vashestambid 16 May 2012 17: 33
              -2
              This is just a study of the technology of other countries, for example, the American army also tested the Soviet Mi-24, even conducted exercises with it ...

              Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.
  2. Dmitriy69
    Dmitriy69 16 May 2012 12: 48
    +5
    This makes sense only as a search for the enemy’s weaknesses, and even then close to zero
    1. Hysnik-Tsuzoy
      Hysnik-Tsuzoy 16 May 2012 14: 13
      0
      Why go along a dead-end path of development in advance. Back in Soviet times, the advantage of tracked vehicles over wheeled vehicles in off-road conditions was proven. This "Centaur" (by the way, it is correct in the Russian vocalization) of the design of the beginning of 1990 is our BMD-4 only with a 120 mm cannon. If ours buy a license to produce this shit, and even produce it, I consider it a crime.
  3. Artur09-75
    Artur09-75 16 May 2012 12: 49
    0
    Generally fucked up. It’s necessary to include your brains, and not to test NATO technology. am
    1. Armata
      Armata 16 May 2012 12: 52
      +4
      To turn on your brains. It’s very good to know what you are starting from and what you have to deal with. If only it did not reach serial deliveries. And if they roll it away now and then do competent TK in Kurgan, then we can do it better.
      1. Dmitriy69
        Dmitriy69 16 May 2012 12: 58
        +1
        Eugene, you must admit that Centauro is not a technique for the sake of which it is worthwhile to give special TK, and moreover, spend people's money.
        1. Armata
          Armata 16 May 2012 13: 14
          +7
          Of course I agree. But then what is the point of this purchase? A simple example from my own experience. When 97 brought the 4 hydraulic motor from Italy to us and was told to disassemble, report and do better. We did just that. Now, as a result, Italy makes us orders for these products under its own brand (it was only on this that they survived when the entire defense industry was bent and the machine park was completely updated) and asks to bring their new developments to mind. And why do we need this scrap?
          1. Dmitriy69
            Dmitriy69 16 May 2012 15: 46
            +3
            Interesting fact!
            By the way, one more idea came to mind how to use "this scrap", it will make an excellent target for testing new ammunition!
            1. Armata
              Armata 16 May 2012 15: 55
              +1
              Thanks Dmitry amused laughing drinks With armor-piercing rounds for Kalash, there are almost 0 armor there. laughing
  4. Liberal
    Liberal 16 May 2012 12: 54
    +4
    What? Unparalleled, the most modern BTR-90 is being pushed and the old Italian carts are being pushed ?! I hope Rogozin will figure it out and report this sabotage to our beloved, respected National Leader. Putin will figure it out!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 16 May 2012 13: 46
      +2
      Liberal, I heard the news - in America, the bullets were ordered for internal security i.e. for you . They just don’t love you here, and in your beloved America you will be stupidly shot. Where you will live, I don’t even know
      1. Armata
        Armata 16 May 2012 13: 55
        +1
        Duck if they shoot and will not live, however, so that he still has one option since he is allergic to lead laughing
    2. volcano
      volcano 16 May 2012 22: 04
      -2
      liberal. As I understand it, if you didn’t have a hangover for a day, then there’s no dream?
  5. stankomi
    stankomi 16 May 2012 12: 56
    +1
    Rogozin will not allow to buy Italian wheeled tanks: http://vz.ru/news/2012/5/16/579022.html
  6. USNik
    USNik 16 May 2012 12: 56
    0
    Who knows, announce the price on the world market of the Centaur, BMP-3 and BMD-4. I would not be surprised if the centaur is "golden" ...
  7. postman
    postman 16 May 2012 12: 58
    +4
    When choosing which plant to buy for Togliatti, the choice fell on Fiat, in order to help the "brotherly" Communist Party of Italy.
    Today ? Party United Italy?
    Maybe this time we will help the Germans:

    Or Slovaks:

    ?
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 16 May 2012 13: 03
      +1
      In any case, these are more serious things than old Italian cans!
    2. Kars
      Kars 16 May 2012 13: 09
      +3
      But why bring SPGs? Rhino and Suzanne?
      Although the Yuarovsky wheeled tanks look preferable, they even have combat experience.
      1. postman
        postman 16 May 2012 13: 29
        +1
        Self-propelled guns are not important.
        Important chassis and combat module, tower.

        For me, they’ll take each of them for test tests.
        A march along the Silk Caravan Route, where a thread near China was shot.
        And, according to experts with combat experience (Afghanistan, Chechnya), they chose what was needed.
        Or not needed.
        1. Kars
          Kars 16 May 2012 14: 33
          +2
          Quote: Postman
          Self-propelled guns are not important.
          Important chassis and combat module, tower.


          I wouldn’t tell you what the difference in the mass of weapons is worth, and the art systems that 6 doesn’t fire on the go, and in principle are not required to carry armor, especially for protection against RPGs
          1. postman
            postman 16 May 2012 16: 50
            0
            Well, then we have a plug in a decent chassis (wheeled platform), the desired layout.
            A combat module will do (and did).
            Or take the Germans AGM y as a model.
            There is artillery, AZ too (tank).
            1. Kars
              Kars 16 May 2012 17: 02
              +1
              Quote: Postman
              Well, then we have a decent chassis

              Rather, a plug in DESIRE and the presence of NEEDS. No one has come up with a worthy occupation of a wheeled MOS in the army of the Russian Federation. Especially with an anti-tank gun.

              How does this not suit you?
              1. postman
                postman 16 May 2012 17: 51
                +2
                Everything suits me.
                This is a BMP.
                This one definitely can't stand such a gun.
                and place the module ANYWHERE.
                Otherwise, it will look like a pyramid.
                The Czechs have a prettier implementation.
                Yes, and this one is better:
                1. Kars
                  Kars 16 May 2012 18: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Postman
                  This one definitely can't stand such a gun.

                  What is it? Who else will sell it to the Russian Federation, and where is the guarantee that the Centaur’s chassis that can barely hold the 105 mm cannon with a reduced impulse will withstand this.?
                  Quote: Postman
                  and place the module ANYWHERE.

                  WHAT MODULE IS,
                  Quote: Postman
                  Yes, and this one is better:

                  THIS IS AN ARTILLERY SPG, NOT MOS

                  YOU for a MOSFET with an 125 mm tank gun first think of a problem, and only then go to art systems with a range of fire of 40 km and an angle of elevation greater than 50 degrees.

                  And by the way, I'm still interested in the distance to Omsk
                  1. postman
                    postman 17 May 2012 20: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    Who else will sell his RF

                    We have to do it ourselves. And do not buy.
                    Quote: Kars
                    WHAT MODULE IS,

                    module like AGM from KWM
                    Quote: Kars
                    YOU ... climb

                    rude. I do not "climb" anywhere and do not impose anything on anyone.
                    Quote: Kars
                    And by the way, in


                    What are you talking about? Omsk? where is the distance from.
                    lower the "pseudo command" tone and find it yourself.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 19 May 2012 10: 31
                      0
                      Quote: Postman
                      We have to do it ourselves. And do not buy.

                      And the chassis means it is possible?
                      Quote: Postman
                      module like AGM from KWM

                      Do it, then there will be something to say. Maybe the best - only on the chassis of Almaty,
                      Quote: Postman
                      rude. I do not "climb" anywhere and do not impose anything on anyone.
                      Well, we are not an institute of noble divisions.
                      Quote: Postman
                      What are you talking about? Omsk? where is the distance from.

                      In the news about aircraft carriers and your pictures with submarines in the north of the Russian Federation.
                      You’re looking for your picture, because there are ranges for the Palarisians, and not the Tomahawks.
              2. marshes
                marshes 16 May 2012 19: 34
                -1
                So we already bought, that’s ALL they will think. laughing
  8. Liberal
    Liberal 16 May 2012 13: 00
    +3
    Russian technology, in particular armored personnel carriers, traditionally differs from NATO wagons in unsurpassed reliability and cheapness. Let there not be automatic transmissions, air conditioners and refrigerators with mineral water, but there is condos, low cost, cross-country ability and field repairability that has no analogues in the world. Moreover, these centaurs-centaurs look too dumb ... and it is probably difficult to ride on them outside, as our valiant warriors are used to doing. An attempt to foist these wretched Italian huts of our valiant army is the most natural diversion! I hope that the relevant authorities will sort it out and punish the spies, agents of influence and other monstrosities that have entrenched themselves in the power structures and are trying to weaken our invincible army. Traitors and pests to the answer!
    1. sergey261180
      sergey261180 16 May 2012 13: 15
      0
      Who will plant them? They are monuments!
    2. cobra66
      cobra66 16 May 2012 13: 16
      +3
      Our equipment has one of the main qualities so that it is easy to use and repair.
    3. volcano
      volcano 16 May 2012 22: 08
      +2
      Liberal, you're really burning. You’re directly rushing from your own banter, huh?
  9. MKALEKSEY
    MKALEKSEY 16 May 2012 13: 14
    +1
    These machines (Centauro) were tested in battle in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia in 1992 - 8 vehicles from the 19th regiment - and were used for reconnaissance raids and escorting convoys - the result: of these eight, one of them immediately failed the engine and it was not used, the armor could not withstand bullets from the DShK machine gun, not to mention the RPG. At the same time, the DZ blocks were ordered from the Royal Order company, but it was not possible to cover the entire car - the chassis could not withstand. As a result, these machines began to observation posts along the highway.
    1. postman
      postman 16 May 2012 13: 31
      +1
      Quote: MKALEKSEY
      Check in battle these cars

      Just like the story about the current basins from AvtoVAZ.
      Bought, did not start.
      Started up, drove to the house, I can’t open the door.
      Fiat in the version of Rusnano. So take off (Centauro) will be.
  10. marline
    marline 16 May 2012 13: 30
    0
    What about YOU with windows? fellow
    1. marline
      marline 16 May 2012 17: 49
      +1
      windows itself laughing laughing
  11. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot 16 May 2012 13: 47
    0
    gentlemen. machines of this type we need. I want to remind about the huge number of Papuans on our borders, not to drive the MBT laughing
  12. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 16 May 2012 13: 55
    +1
    The third centaur article. I would like to clarify according to research results. So far, everything testifies to the political background of the issue.
  13. dld35057
    dld35057 16 May 2012 15: 00
    -1
    but interestingly if by fatazirovat- after a global vigorous war when the world will be trampled into the Stone Age, it will be easier to use our BMP BTR BMD or their sophisticated centaurs ravings, etc. after all, there are practically no rem factories or any electronics - what will they drive on.
    1. dld35057
      dld35057 17 May 2012 00: 49
      0
      Interestingly, and that we have not provided for the use of nuclear weapons? who set minus let justify. I can justify my koment. neither Russia nor the USA refuse to use nuclear weapons. then the equipment must perform combat missions in the conditions of the use of nuclear weapons. and if it cannot - fuck you need it.
      1. dld35057
        dld35057 17 May 2012 01: 08
        0
        and I’ll also have to impose that with my caterpillars on BMD the next time we take Berlin on their fucking asphalt, and roll them into their asphalt -SSSSS It’s with great pleasure all their civilized fagot. I mean that they know stsuki about caterpillars and earlier they suggest we switch to wheels - here they are sorry for asphalt pads.
  14. ANTURAG
    ANTURAG 16 May 2012 15: 39
    -1
    We seem to have this theme with centaurs whose lobby is on the site, very often this centaur is mentioned. A car worthless anyway wassat
  15. Diesel
    Diesel 16 May 2012 16: 04
    0
    If you buy tons, replace at least a 125mm gun
  16. sergeant1973
    sergeant1973 16 May 2012 17: 11
    +1
    Why does our army need NATO junk ??????????????????
    1. tariff
      tariff 16 May 2012 17: 14
      +1
      Because "loot will defeat evil"
  17. eddie
    eddie 16 May 2012 18: 17
    +1
    I don’t understand in Russia after the Soviet Union their designers should have remained that they put into hibernation
  18. const72
    const72 16 May 2012 21: 04
    0
    No wonder Berlusconi came to the inauguration.
  19. nycsson
    nycsson 16 May 2012 21: 43
    -1
    Shame !!! What we have come to !!! !!! ??? am am am
  20. cord
    cord 16 May 2012 22: 24
    0
    Iveco armored vehicles, German hospitals, German armor, Austrian and British sniper rifles, French Mistrals. Now welcome the Italian tanks! good This is nothing but stability! laughing Iveks have already swept across Red Square at the parade, now we are waiting for the Centaurs.
  21. decanter
    decanter 16 May 2012 23: 51
    -1
    Ride and throw it away .... buy - it will be too expensive ... they need spare parts shells of their calibers and dimensions, communication .. redo ... one hemorrhagic .... if you still drive it to your home then you would run and the soldiers vigorously slander ... the alien is the alien ..
  22. Magadan
    Magadan 17 May 2012 01: 44
    0
    Quote: 755962
    Defense Ministry agencies rapidly degraded in parallel with the defense industry. ... our developers have largely lost touch with reality. In Soviet times, this connection was provided by units of scientific and technical intelligence of the GRU and the KGB,

    Again about the same? Again philosophical nonsense about banal erudition? Where are the facts? How do you prove the usefulness of cooperation with Western arms companies ?!
    BUT FACTS of Western weapons that were clearly better than those that were independently developed in the USSR!
    Oh, yes, they forgot about the KGB-GRU, but along the way, all of our developments slammed in the west! MIG-29, T-90, AK-47, S-300, Tornado, our cannons, missiles, everything was stolen from the west / by the West, only for some reason it is not used by the West itself! Bad samples, I guess. Of the hundred battles MIG-29 still 2-3 loses, a bad plane! Need a license for the F-16 urgently to buy!
    Have you copied the article of iksperd the traitor, who is not ashamed to hunt symposiums with receptions? Let’s facts, prove that we must learn something from Western gunsmiths. FACTS prove, not your reasoning
    1. TRex
      TRex 17 May 2012 07: 37
      0
      Of course, I doubt the feasibility of mass production of these machines for our army - there are enough of their own models of this plan. We bought a couple of pieces to study the foreign experience - this is enough.
      As for those colleagues who claim to have bought "old stuff" - in 1940 our delegation traveled to Germany and bought some weapons there. Including Me-109, Yu-87, etc. We found high-level figures who also shouted that the Germans had sold us "old stuff".
      Then this "old thing" was well combed by the Red Army Air Force in 1941.
      So don't say "gop" until you've jumped ...
  23. vova62ru
    vova62ru 17 May 2012 05: 49
    0
    Yes, you need to buy and help Italy out of the crisis to get out, not in vain Berlusconi is a friend of GDP.
  24. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 17 May 2012 07: 52
    0
    It would be better if they bought new equipment once they want to buy something abroad.