In the Russian Federation told about the first reusable space rocket

The test of the first reusable return missiles scheduled in Russia for 2022 year, reports RIA News a message from the head of the project group of the Advanced Research Foundation (FPI) Boris Satovsky.

He said that the Roskosmos and UAC engineers are working on the program of the reusable space-rocket system of the ultralight class. An advance design of the returned missile block has already been completed.

According to Satovsky, the scheme provides for the separation of the first stage of the carrier at an altitude of about 60 km and its return to the launch area with a landing on the runway. Upon return, a modified serial turbojet will be used. The unit will be equipped with a rectangular wing and tail.

The system itself is designed to put into orbit up to 600 kg of payload. Calculations showed that the cost of the output will be in 1,5-2 times cheaper than that of conventional missiles of the same class. It is assumed that each unit will be able to make 50 flights without replacing the main engines. For them, the cryogenic mixture “liquid oxygen - liquefied methane” will serve as fuel.

Missiles will be launched from mobile complexes.

When developing, the backlog of the project of the reusable accelerator "Baikal" is involved. The engineers analyzed the reserve for the return stage, compared the alternative arrangements, and calculated the heat transfer and gas dynamics on the return path.

Satovsky also said that the project’s elaboration “showed sufficient technological readiness to create a demonstrator”.

Comments

[avt]

Ehhhhhhh .... yes again, many more, many ra-a-az! Campaign ,, Burlaka "gathered to reanimate, and then the noise .....

[Grandfather Makar]

Quote: avt

Ehhhhhhh .... yes again, many more, many ra-a-az! Campaign ,, Burlaka "gathered to reanimate, and then the noise .....

We do not make noise, but quietly work by trial and error, and still achieve our goal

reusable falcon 9 Musk PR rocket and nothing more

Remember how many screams and PR was .. This project went bankrupt completely!
We slowly harness the Russians, but drive fast .. I’m sure there ours will come up with something new, cheap and cheerful! We were the first in space to be and will remain so, no matter how hard it would be for us. I am sure of this guys!

[astepanov]

Yes Yes. And this shit will be launched from mobile phones - that’s how it is written. In the meantime, for the umpteenth time there is a fundraising for the completion of the Vostochny and Plesetsk cosmodromes. They say that by the end of the ninth presidential term they will finish building and begin to rebuild due to moral and physical deterioration.

[Sergey39]

This is a dead end. The future of near space is an orbital plane

[aristok]

just the orbital plane was a dead end ...
which is brilliant and demonstrated an awkward shuttle.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: aristok

just the orbital plane was a dead end ...
which is brilliant and demonstrated an awkward shuttle.

Do you know what there were problems with? There were no problems with the orbiter itself. I mean with the concept of an orbiter. The problems were with avionics (too complicated for the then element base), with turbojet accelerators and with a central tank (with a design, but not with a concept), with the engines of the orbiter itself. But not with the concept of the atmospheric-orbital glider itself. Which proves by no means the awkward X-37.

[t-4]

Quote: aristok

which is brilliant and demonstrated an awkward shuttle.

How tolerant!
Why didn’t you write that the Shuttle clone - the Soviet Buran - is absurd?
What kind of fence to drop in when you have one?
Or beliefs do not allow?

[kakvastam]

The Buran is far from a clone of the shuttle - it's a clean orbital glider, unlike an orbital plane with an outboard tank. The concept was more flexible, since Energia could withdraw not only the shuttle, but also other massive loads. If Yeltsin hadn’t been with Gorbachev, it might have turned out to be worthwhile.

[t-4]

Quote: kakvastam

Buran is far from a shuttle clone

Yes, okay.
Here is the shuttle. Flew in 1981.

Seven years later, Soviet designers who had never seen this shuttle completely independently created their Buran.
Did he look like that?

Or so?

Here is a surprise. He looked SO:

[kakvastam]

Are you really unable to distinguish a glider from an airplane?
Then write on.

[t-4]

Come on you.
Exactly what a clone is. And not just a clone, but a clone without engines. Probably could not create engines.

[kakvastam]

In reality - a fundamentally different layout. In the American shuttle - the central element, it is its engines that pull the entire structure into orbit, in the Soviet - only one of the payload options. That is why the state program was closed entirely, there was nothing to use in parts.

And that the contours are similar - since we have one aerodynamics in the whole world, it’s only teenagers who want to do “not like everyone else” ...

[Avis-bis]

Quote: t-4

Exactly what the clone

Everything, Yksperd said his weighty word, the question is resolved. :)

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: t-4

from the shuttle. Flew in 1981.

And where is this shuttle? Alice, ha ha, ha, Challenger ..

[t-4]

Is it funny?
Have a laugh together?
Colombia is where Soyuz-1, Soyuz-11 ...
Laughter is not appropriate here!

[dexter1]

Quote: kakvastam

The Buran is far from a clone of the shuttle - it's a clean orbital glider, unlike an orbital plane with an outboard tank

in general, the difference is more substantial.
The first somehow flew once, the second flew over 100 flights

Quote: kakvastam

"Energy" could withdraw not only the shuttle, but also other massive loads.

she could - but she didn’t.
in general, there’s nothing to discuss.

[kakvastam]

Well, the states were unlucky, then they did not have their own Gorbachev. And then, under occupation, everything was torn apart, to which they reached.

So there’s really nothing to discuss.

[-Pollux]

Quote: aristok

just the orbital plane was a dead end ...
which is brilliant and demonstrated an awkward shuttle.

The shuttle was not an orbital plane. An orbital plane means a machine that will take off and land on an airplane, no vertical starts.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Sergey39

This is a dead end. The future of near space is an orbital plane

Why is the Shuttle not orbital shit? It only had to be thought out - to raise and lower the ballast to 60 tons. With a weekly resource in orbit and without a kilowatt of energy for experiments. Has this idiocy really taught you nothing? Leave maximum weight on the withdrawal track, return and reuse. To have in orbit only what is essential. The richest set of orbital apparatuses, light and few living (minimum cost), which will be displayed by ultralight carriers, is the way of an operational and fairly cheap method of research. (And military intelligence). And for crew flights and the removal of heavy equipment, traditional carriers are well-developed and well-made. Of course, upgraded or completely replaced with new ones. In a planned and reasonably chosen direction.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: wkd dvk

It only had to be thought out - to raise and lower the ballast to 60 tons.

An empty 100-ton Tu-154, which does not need to enter the atmosphere at 20-25M, weighs 55t.

With a weekly orbit resource

Two weeks.

no kilowatt energy for experiments

Have you really heard of Spacelab?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Avis-bis

Quote: wkd dvk

It only had to be thought out - to raise and lower the ballast to 60 tons.

An empty 100-ton Tu-154, which does not need to enter the atmosphere at 20-25M, weighs 55t.

With a weekly orbit resource

Two weeks.

no kilowatt energy for experiments

Have you really heard of Spacelab?

An empty 100 ton weighs 55 tons. There is some misunderstanding. Correct. 23 tons - payload and 2,5 thousand tons at the start. Let’s argue, having the whole alignment, and not squeezes, useful to one arguing side.

[Avis-bis]

[quote = Vkd Dvk] [quote = Vkd Dvk] This is a thought only needed to raise and lower the ballast to 60 tons. [/ Quote]

An empty 100 ton weighs 55 tons. There is some misunderstanding. Correct. 23 tons - payload and 2,5 thousand tons at the start. Let’s argue, having the whole alignment, and not squeezes, useful to one arguing side. [/ Quote] [/ quote]
You wrote about the "ballast of 60 tons", therefore you spoke only about the orbiter. I gave an example of another aircraft with the same mass of structure and take-off mass. It is impossible to create an aircraft with zero mass of the structure, the "ballast" will always be.
And STS could output up to 27 tons.

[Vkd dvk]

[quote = Avis-bis] [quote = Vkd Dvk] [quote = Vkd Dvk] This is just what you had to think of - raise and lower the ballast to 60 tons. [/ quote]

An empty 100 ton weighs 55 tons. There is some misunderstanding. Correct. 23 tons - payload and 2,5 thousand tons at the start. Let’s argue, having the whole alignment, and not squeezes, useful to one arguing side. [/ Quote] [/ quote]
You wrote about the "ballast of 60 tons", therefore you spoke only about the orbiter. I gave an example of another aircraft with the same mass of structure and take-off mass. It is impossible to create an aircraft with zero mass of the structure, the "ballast" will always be.
And STS could output up to 27 tons. [/ Quote]
How correctly would it be to bring out the Hubble telescope not by the Shuttle, but by Saturn - 5. The TAM colony would be in orbit! How it would be right to repair the Hubble, arriving not on the Shuttles, but on the type of Unions. There can be no zero ship weight. But it can be REASONABLE.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: wkd dvk

How correctly would it be to bring out the Hubble telescope not by the Shuttle, but by Saturn - 5. The TAM colony would be in orbit! How it would be right to repair the Hubble, arriving not on the Shuttles, but on the type of Unions.

Debatable. There were also satellite losses due to the unexploded solar panel. When the crew is twenty meters away, he can manually deploy it, if that. So opened an experimental farm on the "Salute". Either Chretien, or Janibekov, I don’t remember exactly. Just a kick.
At Soyuz, you won’t throw the right number of people and tools.

There can be no zero ship weight. But it can be REASONABLE.

Which one? In kg, in percent ... The mass of the Tu-154 design is not reasonable?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Avis-bis

Quote: wkd dvk

How correctly would it be to bring out the Hubble telescope not by the Shuttle, but by Saturn - 5. The TAM colony would be in orbit! How it would be right to repair the Hubble, arriving not on the Shuttles, but on the type of Unions.

Debatable. There were also satellite losses due to the unexploded solar panel. When the crew is twenty meters away, he can manually deploy it, if that. So opened an experimental farm on the "Salute". Either Chretien, or Janibekov, I don’t remember exactly. Just a kick.
At Soyuz, you won’t throw the right number of people and tools.

There can be no zero ship weight. But it can be REASONABLE.

Which one? In kg, in percent ... The mass of the Tu-154 design is not reasonable?

You provoke sharpness.
What does the plane have to do with it? The elderberry garden, and the uncle in Kiev. 2,5 thousand tons at the start and 23 (max) tons of payload, which NEVER was displayed. Those loads (14 on average, for all shuttle launches) would have had enough 400 tons of Protons.
Send Saturn 5 with Hubble and nearby, in a day- Union with the crew. What the hell to go there (at the start, 2, 5 thousand tons) a shuttle with a set of screwdrivers. They would kick, spin the untwisted, unscrew the twisted and put into operation a super giant weighing 100 tons. With a resource for 100 years in orbit. (I mean fuel for re-aiming mirrors on objects).

[Sergey39]

I didn’t write about the American shuttle, but a hypersonic plane with the ability to enter orbit

[SETTGF]

Dear! The future is an orbital aircraft with universal hybrid engines, which in the atmosphere operate as turbojet turbojet engines and in space as rocket taxiways ... Projects of the 80s have still not been realized - for example, Hermes, Khotol, etc. d.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: SETTGF

Turbojet engine

Why does he need a turbojet engine? As soon as possible, he needs to go to supersonic speed, where the turbojet engine reigns. But turbojet engine - nafig. The most optimal solution is a spacecraft with ramjet, which is accelerated by the first stage with turbojet engine. Then the first stage is separated and further elimination is carried out on a once-through, which is easier to turn into a rocket engine than a gas turbine engine. It’s possible, like on the “Bure”, a start with turbojet accelerators, and then forward flow.

[SETTGF]

Avis-bis (Sergey)! In the projects of orbital aircraft designed for a long time, the concept without the use of steps and accelerators is adopted. Therefore, initially the use of a combined engine, while an aerospace plane takes off and lands like a plane and does not need launching tables ...

[Avis-bis]

Quote: SETTGF

an aerospace plane takes off and lands like a plane and does not need launching tables ...

The first step can also be airplane - see on the Spiral. Or the An-225 + MAX system.

[Vadim237]

I believe that British scientists will bring their Skylon to iron and flights

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Sergey39

I didn’t write about the American shuttle, but a hypersonic plane with the ability to enter orbit

To attack the enemy, reaching such heights and at such a speed is not bad. But, because we are talking about space. And what can be done on the plane in a few hours? Months and years of hanging in orbits are needed. Minisatellites. koi have become relevant now. A plane that displays such a height of five to eight hundred kilometers ..... It is very difficult and expensive.

[bald]

Alexei. Launch pad mobility is a very important thing. The closer to the equator, the lower the fuel consumption (substantially, up to 10%), respectively, more payload. The steps separating from the missiles fall from the starting point of 300-2000 km. As if to whom did not fly. Well, weather conditions, with a forecast. And much more. One option is from the ocean.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: bald

Alexei. Launch pad mobility is a very important thing. The closer to the equator, the lower the fuel consumption

... and narrower scope. From the equatorial orbit, you cannot probe the Earth, and you will not spy, and you will not provide the Earth with a connection / search / naivation. By and large, the equator is interesting only in the sense of a geosynchronous orbit and AMS launches.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Ded-Makar

Quote: astepanov

Yes Yes. And this shit will be launched from mobile phones - that’s how it is written. In the meantime, for the umpteenth time there is a fundraising for the completion of the Vostochny and Plesetsk cosmodromes. They say that by the end of the ninth presidential term they will finish building and begin to rebuild due to moral and physical deterioration.

Liberast? If such howls, then the project is not bad .. heh heh

Remove the question mark.

[venik]

Quote: astepanov

And this shit will be launched from mobile phones - that’s how it is written.

========
It’s terribly interesting, but YOU are “respected”, ANYTHING "In this life INVENTED"???????

[just exp]

yes yes, let's tell us again about the fact that the Mask project went bankrupt. otherwise they Musk, and the whole world does not yet know that Max went bankrupt. it’s necessary to open eyes to everyone rather.
you’ll be like a new Rogozin, instead of doing something, or rather just working, you could just joke about the trampoline - you look and won the space race as a joke.
{cut out by censorship}, to Rogozin and the Mask (I am aware that Rogozin wrote a surname with a small letter) Russia was a leader in space. almost all commercial launches have now been lost (and before that we had no competitors at all). 20 years behind in technology. and all this could have been avoided if one {cut out by censorship} (more precisely, not one. There’s a whole codla there), instead of joking about the trampoline, was engaged in work.

[210ox]

Of course, this is a project a quarter of a century ago .. About Baikal they spoke in the early 90s. Even the photo was on the runway. He sits on the plane.

[Slon379]

As Comrade Stalin said, "science and culture require extravagance." If all kinds of masks work, I consider it also my success, because he plays in his awesome projects with our (my) money. They are awarded negative start-ups at negative rates there, they finance fantastic start-ups, give out wagons money that our wise government dumps into government bonds, all as if according to Comrade Stalin (“science and culture require extravagance”). If we let our Kulibin play on such conditions, I think we would be on Mars. Rogozin does not print money, what questions can be to him? So which of us are Stalinists? Something like this.

[lis-ik]

Quote: Ded-Makar

We do not make noise, but quietly work by trial and error, and still achieve our goal

Vitaly, I am glad that you have found yourself and are now working in Roskosmos, I believe that such people will get their way without getting up off the couch.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ded-Makar

but we know how to keep secrets in Russia!

We don’t know how to fuck. Surnames to name?

[avt]

Quote: Ded-Makar

We are not making noise

Well, if you do not make noise, then

Quote: Ded-Makar

we work by trial and error

skips on a rake.

Quote: Ded-Makar

. I am sure there ours will come up with something new

Quote: Ded-Makar

I am sure of this guys!

It’s a straight sect, some kind of faithful believers in something

Quote: Ded-Makar

trial and error

If you also knew this

Quote: Ded-Makar

come up with something new, cheap and cheerful

Well, you don’t have any sect prices, and -10 kopecks per bunch on a market day.

[aszzz888]

It is proposedthat each unit will be able to make 50 flights without replacing the main engines.

Do not be afraid of what you want!

[Wendigo]

Quote: aszzz888

Do not be afraid of what you want!

For several years, patriots on the site chanted that all these masked steps were an economically untenable fake, and now Roskosmos did not give a damn about the opinion of these same patriots trying to catch a train that had long been hidden from view. How shoud I understand this?

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: aszzz888

Do not be afraid of what you want!

For several years, patriots on the site chanted that all these masked steps were an economically untenable fake, and now Roskosmos did not give a damn about the opinion of these same patriots trying to catch a train that had long been hidden from view. How shoud I understand this?

In fact, criticism towards the Mask was about the method of vertical landing of the upper stage. The people just said that it makes sense to make a planning overclocking unit, which is now announced by Roscosmos, apparently he listened to the opinion of commentators in . No need to distort events.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Alex-a832

Roscosmos declared now, apparently he listened to the opinion of commentators in .

This "statement" is already a quarter century old.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Avis-bis

This "statement" is already a quarter century

No wonder. A quarter century ago, our economy was in an unnamed place. And now there are opportunities and new technologies for resuming the project. I did not say what was conceived from scratch only today.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Alex-a832

I did not say what was conceived from scratch only today.

Ah, then I misunderstood you.

[210ox]

A quarter of a century ago, the economy was just beginning to fall apart. And this brainchild of Soviet designers was created in the late 80s ..

Quote: Alex-a832

Quote: Avis-bis

This "statement" is already a quarter century

No wonder. A quarter century ago, our economy was in an unnamed place. And now there are opportunities and new technologies for resuming the project. I did not say what was conceived from scratch only today.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Alex-a832

In fact, criticism towards the Mask was about the method of vertical landing of the upper stage

Not only about this, believe me.
But let's say you're right, so who ended up on the horse? The answer is Musk and company. There they have this proven technology. I hope you will not argue with this at least?

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Wendigo

Not only about this, believe me.
But let's say you're right, so who ended up on the horse? The answer is Musk and company. There they have this proven technology. I hope you will not argue with this at least?

Musk smoothly slipped under the horse with his well-developed project. If anyone pulls it, then the US state budget.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Wendigo

The mask already has more than 60% share of global commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

[Blackmokona]

Tesla is doing bad things, just before peeking into the reports. And then the difference between debts and assets in 2014 is less than a billion, and now more than 4 billion in favor of assets. Just breaks into the development of a lot of money. The flow of money is minus, and the equipment of the company owned is growing faster than debts

[Wendigo]

Quote: BlackMokona

Just breaks into the development of a lot of money.

The Board of Directors of Zhosko on Mask took up arms over this. They wanted to dismiss sales

[Blackmokona]

Yeah, the board of directors as a single shareholder with 10 shares. It's like buying 1,5 rubles in Gazprom shares and suggesting Miller be kicked out

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: BlackMokona

Tesla is doing bad things, just before peeking into the reports. And then the difference between debts and assets in 2014 is less than a billion, and now more than 4 billion in favor of assets. Just breaks into the development of a lot of money. The flow of money is minus, and the equipment of the company owned is growing faster than debts

The omnipotent patrons make his activities out of court. Work without profit, swelling to increase the price of your enterprise, work on pre-orders, when the loot goes past taxes, the absence of profit is also the absence of taxes, because the basis for calculations is profit. A pyramid built on the cluelessness of citizens. The "spiritual" atmosphere itself. when to possess fashionable crap is prestigious. Living in tents in front of a supermarket waiting for the start of sales of super devices. Here is the level of consumer intelligence on which this rogue builds his well-being.
"Reusability" is when, out of 50 starts, 5 were re-launched? With an almost annual repair and restoration of the "second" run? How little is needed in order to tame the premature, not able to analyze, and just think.

[Blackmokona]

You confuse capitalization as the aggregate price of stocks, and assets as the aggregate price of equipment, buildings and other things. What can be effectively sold without any stocks and exchanges.

Already 13 launches B \ U of 56 launches in total. And the percentage of repeated launches is growing rapidly

[SETTGF]

Wendigo! Do not write fairy tales about profit in the space industry - the industry is not yet profitable all over the world! Costs exceed profits ... consider expensive development, failed launches and more!

[Wendigo]

Quote: SETTGF

Do not write fairy tales about profit in the space industry

"Tales" I do not write and the official site of Spacex for example. Your statement is already about 5 years old. Musk even manages to share the profit from Spacex with Tesla, which really is not going smoothly.

[SETTGF]

Wendigo! Do not wishful thinking! He also has unsuccessful launches, and the equipment is so expensive! Musk is on the verge of bankruptcy!

[SETTGF]

The technologies are not fully developed, the first stage did not always land successfully ...

[forty-eighth]

Quote: SETTGF

The technologies are not fully developed, the first stage did not always land successfully ...

And how many unsuccessful landings happened in 2017-18?

[Blackmokona]

Number of landings 28
successful 23

And almost all the failures at the very beginning of the test

[Vadim237]

So far, in someone's fantasies, Musk is on the verge of bankruptcy.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: SETTGF

Do not write fairy tales about profit in the space industry

"Tales" I do not write and the official site of Spacex for example. Your statement is already about 5 years old. Musk even manages to share the profit from Spacex with Tesla, which really is not going smoothly.

Not bad. Believing a swindler is constructive.
Musk grabbed billions of dollars in subsidies from NASA, got stands, launch complexes. Developments of generations of designers, patents, equipment and design firms themselves, accelerated after the closure of the lunar and shuttle programs. Received Merlin-1 engines from lunar, iron from closed programs. Finished industry, electronics, precision mechanics and metalworking, optics ....
And do you believe that Mask prices are not the result of a collusion between the debtor and the patron who has wealthy their debtor?

[Blackmokona]

He did not receive stands from NASA; he bought them from a bankrupt aerospace firm, which before SpaceX wanted to go into private space and carriers. NASA has never owned this booth.
They also did not receive launch complexes, Musk rented old unused sites at spaceports, and rebuilt them for his missiles. Virtually nothing left of old systems.
NASA has never been engaged in the development of rockets; various corporations have been doing this and are doing it. Lokih, Boeing, Roquetday and so on. Which naturally do not have the slightest desire is shared by designers, patents, etc. For example, the main missile Mueller who Musk lured from a bankrupt company. He immediately got a lawsuit in pursuit, after which Mask was dragged through the courts where he proved that no technology and ideas of TWR, SpaceX through Mueller were stubborn. If I even took a bit, right now SpaceX would not have been.
Marilyn 1, an engine of his own design, he has no connection with the Lunar engine. In addition, both engines are rocket engines and both use pin nozzles. The rest of the engines are radically different.
There are also no billions of subsidies, Musk managed to get a contract under which they pay on completed points, and they pay him half as much as competitors for a lot of work.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: Wendigo

The mask already has more than 60% share of global commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

A snail crawling at a speed of ..... m / h will overtake a standing racing car.
Not Musk in front. That we stopped. It will be ahead when it does not 50 launches, but:

[dexter1]

Quote: wkd dvk

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: Wendigo

The mask already has more than 60% share of global commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

A snail crawling at a speed of ..... m / h will overtake a standing racing car.
Not Musk in front. That we stopped. It will be ahead when it does not 50 launches, but:

and how do these data help us at all?

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: dexter1

Quote: wkd dvk

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: Wendigo

The mask already has more than 60% share of global commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

A snail crawling at a speed of ..... m / h will overtake a standing racing car.
Not Musk in front. That we stopped. It will be ahead when it does not 50 launches, but:

and how do these data help us at all?

Actually, I have the best profession-designer.
Without school, without groundwork, without what is called intelligence, nothing like this could be done.
Musk is now doing the work that our guys did in their 60s.
The level of his PR goes through the roof. Working methods are knocked down. We, in the USSR, while deceiving generations with promises, do not go to any comparison with Mask's card tricks.
Falcons, their options, squeeze each other, raise the degree of promises, as does a card cheat. The promises of 10 starts with a daily break in option 3 are forgotten. The promises of 100 starts with an hour break in option 5 are forgotten. The new replaces the old, spinning and spinning. Not a single heavy version with the crew has flown yet, as candidates for Mars are being recorded, which are supposed to fly superheavy.

[Blackmokona]

Lies, piled on lies.
A daily break is promised for Block 5, which only recently flied. And a demonstration of two launches with a daily break is promised next year
100 starts with a sentry never promised. 100 starts were with the completion of the rocket, and 10 overhauls between launches

[meGrail]

Yes Yes! All right speak!
And his rockets are cardboard and painted by Disney!

[just exp]

so do not distort these events.
but I remember these articles about the fact that Mask is loshara and nothing will come of it.
and with formulas and footage. they all showed how everything would burn out on mattresses. and they themselves joked about the trampoline and worked not in the design bureau but in the media.
therefore, mattresses and Musk made breakthrough technologies. we chatted around the box and paid the media the opinion that Mask was loshara and nothing would come of it.
spring showed who where wed @ l. as we see in the article under discussion.

[milling machine]

Quote: just EXPL

so do not distort these events.
but I remember these articles about the fact that Mask is loshara and nothing will come of it.
and with formulas and footage. they all showed how everything would burn out on mattresses. and they themselves joked about the trampoline and worked not in the design bureau but in the media.
therefore, mattresses and Musk made breakthrough technologies. we chatted around the box and paid the media the opinion that Mask was loshara and nothing would come of it.
spring showed who where wed @ l. as we see in the article under discussion.

All true.
Ours is still in the language of the media and work.
Over the past year and a half, this is the second or third reusable missile (the crown was, this one and something else) that our announced. It turns out that in the absence of the ability to do at least something similar, they simply create an informational noise for the cheers of the patriots.
The same with radar and AFAR for fighters. The serial has not yet been done, but it’s flooded about ROAFAR.

[just exp]

with ROFAR the situation is better. nevertheless, she is already on the stands. next year it will already be in the gland for testing, because work on it has been going on for 5-7 years.
but on reusable launch vehicles we have nothing but idle talk.

[Genry]

Quote: frezer

Ours is still in the media language and work ....

Some people just look for you to blurt out. Articles about promising projects and theories have always been in print, it was in the USSR and the USA ....

Quote: frezer

The same with radar and AFAR for fighters. The serial has not yet been done, but it’s flooded about ROAFAR.

And what, for the MiG-35 radar "Beetle" did not do and in the Ka-52k (ship) they do not put it? And the "Squirrel" on the Su-57 is already being driven ..
And correctly write ROFAR. And no one is obliged to report to you, otherwise you will begin to whine about the "language work" ...

[just exp]

and why on the MiG-35 SCHAR?
and how many Ka-52Ks does AFAR cost? and then there’s still a Crossbow.
and how many combat su-57s do we have? it's about how much AFAR we have in aviation.
By the way, Ketitesef AFAR even have new versions of our MiG-21 (they seem to call it F-7).
it seems to me that we really have ROFAR in a series faster than AFAR (by the way, maybe that's why they are not in a hurry with AFAR because they are expensive, the results are not much better than PFAR and after 5 years they are replaced by ROFARs anyway).

[SETTGF]

milling cutter (alexander)! Do not write nonsense! The radar with AFAR "Squirrel" was used on the Su-57 and was made a long time ago, it will be in a series soon - it is desirable to express yourself incorrectly ... we will make ROAFAR and not only!

[Slon379]

Today I was at the enterprise of Roscosmos, where all the engineers and management in the computers are sitting on the VO))) Guys pull themselves up !!!!

[Wedmak]

What is that supposed to mean?

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway, and ours will be on the wing and turbojet engine - see the difference? And Musk somehow did not voice the number in the 50 takeoff and landing retries.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Wedmak

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway,

BRAVO

[Wendigo]

He voiced the resource of landings up to unlimited.

[Wedmak]

He voiced the resource of landings up to unlimited.

Nonsense is complete. Do you even imagine a fault after every launch? What are the loads on the design of the accelerator? But okay satellites ... Mask is still going to make a manned flight, and all this farce will end at the very first accident with the victims. The benefit in 10-20% of the launch amount is not worth the loss of people.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Wedmak

Do you even imagine a fault after every launch?

Me not! But in Spacex they seem to represent and therefore say that up to "unlimited". I just wrote what they say. Whether I believe it or not, I don’t know. But those other private traders who rushed to catch up with the Mask seemed very much to have believed, and, judging by this article, roskosmos was amassed among them.

Quote: Wedmak

Mask is still going to make a manned flight, and all this farce will end at the very first accident with the victims.

Unfortunately, there is always a risk of an accident .. but it is unlikely that this will end there. The Americans will not send, so the Chinese will catch up for them, and for them the problem of victims is not at all worth it.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: Wedmak

Do you even imagine a fault after every launch?

Me not! But in Spacex they seem to represent and therefore say that up to "unlimited". I just wrote what they say. Whether I believe it or not, I don’t know.

Sure sure. :) There was such a company (maybe there is still) Eclipse, produced Eclipse-500 small flights, so they also poured into the minds of ordinary people that the chassis had unlimited resources throughout the rest of the aircraft. And, just with the chassis were the biggest problems. And this is on a half-gazelle-sized airplane. And then a powerful rocket engine. So, any advertising today must be treated with great skepticism. The mumjers came to high-tech.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Wedmak

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway

I thought you were talking about RD 180 engines)

[Vadim237]

So in the design itself is laid, to withstand all the loads - repeatedly repeated.

[just exp]

You did not write correctly

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway

it is necessary to write correctly

Maskov steps sit down

because they really know how to land and have already done it.
а

ours will be on the wing and turbojet engine

they don’t know how to do this even on computer clips.

[Wedmak]

don't know how to do it even on computer clips

Will you throw a video with a Buran landing or will you find it yourself? And better yet, read the description of how that landing went.

[just exp]

well, so Buran was the return first stage. did not know, did not know.

[Wedmak]

Do not find fault with the names, I meant on-board software, the presence of wings and landing automation. What, in fact, is the difference for a computer what to plant - Buran or the starting stage? Algorithms worked out during the USSR. Make corrections for aerodynamics and modern automation - everything will work fine.

[just exp]

if there were no difference b, then we would have had a returnable rocket for a long time.
by the way, if you don’t know about mattresses, he also had his own Buran, they called him Shuttle.
however, its presence did not make it so that the Mask steps had to be developed from scratch.

[Wedmak]

however, its presence did not make it so that the Mask steps had to be developed from scratch.

This is a question for the developers of the Mask, why they chose this method of landing.

[Vadim237]

Because this method is the simplest and less expensive, unlike all the others.

[donavi49]

Only Musk carries a little more fuel - to slow down and land the stage. And here they carry a whole turbojet engine with ballast.

And they will compete with Paul Allen (co-founder of Microsoft) and his Stratolaunch Systems. Only they already have an Airplane. Which will launch immediately 3 Pegasus missiles from Orbital. Or Dream Chaser. Later, the new Dream Chaser. And a new re-play from Orbital - which is now being actively developed for an air launch.

[Wedmak]

Only Musk carries a little more fuel - to slow down and land the stage. And here they carry a whole turbojet engine with ballast.

A little - how much? Is its mass less than the mass of turbofan engines with fuel?

Only they already have an Airplane.

Which has not yet taken off.

Which will launch immediately 3 Pegasus missiles from Orbital. Or Dream Chaser. Later, the new Dream Chaser. And a new re-cast from Orbital ...

Wait and see.

[donavi49]

Which has not yet taken off.

Alain already has a plane in metal. And he does jogging (40-120 mph) according to the test schedule before the first flight.
Orbital has a load on this aircraft (after they dropped it from the B-52, only MD as a carrier comes out expensive, but 40 missiles have already been launched like that anyway). Plus, there are several shuttles, like those also contracted through Orbital.
Orbital itself is actively making a large rocket for an air launch on the Alena system.

Total:
there is a carrier - there is a load in the 500-600kg class in the form of a rocket that has already flown 40 + into space once. There are specific developments for the future.

What do the heroes of the article have?

[Wedmak]

What do the heroes of the article have?

The heroes of the article have great ideas, but there is no money for their implementation, unfortunately.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Wedmak

A little - how much?

Exactly as much as the Proton or the Union remains in the tanks after launch. If you aren’t in the know, the missiles are always refueling with a margin, after reaching the calculated height, the fuel supply is cut off and the first stage drops with tons of kerosene, which causes the ecologists headache. Mask uses the remainder of the fuel to land the first stage.

[Wedmak]

Exactly as much as Proton or the Union remains in the tanks after launch.

Mask uses the remainder of the fuel to land the first stage.

Sure? Not so long ago, they destroyed a step flopped into the ocean. Do you know why? Dofig of fuel remained on board, and it turned into a sea floating mine.

rockets always refuel with a margin, after reaching the calculated height, the fuel supply is cut off and the first stage drops with tons of kerosene

I will never believe that at Roskosmos kerosene in accelerators is emitted by tons, and at the “genius” Mask everything is calculated right up to a gram. That's nonsense.
You just can not look critically at the creations of the Mask. Everything is better with him ...

[Vadim237]

This step - which plopped into the water, could not sit on the platform due to the fact that the fuel supply system did not work at the right time.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Wedmak

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway, and ours will be on the wing and turbojet engine - see the difference?

Can't you see? The launch vehicle will carry on itself a turbojet engine whose task is only to launch and then off the ground. This is idiocy, for RD Mask it works for takeoff and landing, and ours offer for this two different types of engines to use, just brilliantly, the Yak 38 in a new guise ...

[Wedmak]

The launch vehicle will carry on itself a turbojet engine whose task is only to launch and then off the ground. This is idiocy

How many tons of fuel does the landing mask take with it? In numbers please.
However, no, I’ll tell you myself:
The total weight of landing racks reaches 2100 kg
Three out of nine engines are designed for braking and received an ignition system for restarting;
Folding lattice rudders are installed on the upper part of the first stage to stabilize rotation and improve controllability at the reduction stage
An orientation system is installed in the upper part of the stage - a set of gas nozzles using compressed nitrogen energy
The maximum payload brought to a low reference orbit (without returning the first stage) is 22 800 kg, when returning the first stage it will decrease by 30 – 40%, that is, up to 14-15 tons
You also successfully forget about the presence of a floating platform, which is necessary to return the stage when it is put into geo-transition orbit. And from there, the step still needs to be delivered back to the launch site - this is approximately from 300 to 600 km.
Well, cherry - “The return of the first stage reduces the maximum payload of the launch vehicle by 30 – 40% [43]. This is due to the need to reserve fuel for braking and landing, as well as the additional mass of landing equipment (landing bearings, trellis, rudder control system And so on). "
Total, presumably, the accelerator carries around 10 tons of fuel (+ reserve) for landing + landing equipment.
Let there be on our wing and turbojet engine D30F6 from MIG-31. The engine weighs 2,5 tons + fuel + wing. In my opinion, all this will not go abroad in 15 tons.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Wedmak

Let there be on our wing and turbojet engine D30F6 from MIG-31. The engine weighs 2,5 tons + fuel + wing. In my opinion, all this will not go abroad in 15 tons.

For example, on the An-10 (it’s clear that a completely different "weight category", but for a first approximation, the share of the wing, landing gear and plumage in the mass of the structure is 25%. But the wing and landing gear of the return stage will not need to carry a heavy transporter full of a bunch of equipment and payload, they can be made simpler, more compact and lighter.

[anykin]

Quote: Wendigo

Roskosmos does not give a damn about the opinion of these same patriots is trying to catch a train

Where did it disappear? AND?

[Wendigo]

Quote: anykin

Where did it disappear? AND?

A stop at Mars station is scheduled for 2019

[anykin]

Quote: Wendigo

A stop at Mars station is scheduled for 2019

Funny.

[spirit]

The fact that Musk will be smarter Urapatriotov here on the site) and in Roscosmos

[figwam]

Quote: Wendigo

What is that supposed to mean?

And what is there to understand, the mask lures customers and works at a loss, but what next? And then you have to raise prices for launches. It’s like opening a new supermarket, where prices are low at first, and then like everyone else’s, but the main thing is to lure the clientele. But if he acts like that, then we will create competition in the form of this missile.

[Wendigo]

Quote: figvam

And what is there to understand, the mask lures customers and works at a loss

You at least sometimes glanced at the mat part with one eye ... The mask already has more than 60% of the share of world commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

[Muvka]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: figvam

And what is there to understand, the mask lures customers and works at a loss

You at least sometimes glanced at the mat part with one eye ... The mask already has more than 60% of the share of world commercial launches. SpaceX’s profits are off the charts.
Maybe you mixed something with Tesla? In Tesla, things are really bad.

Share with us an overwhelming profit figure. Only with at least some evidence.

[Wendigo]

Quote: Muvka

Share with us an overwhelming profit figure.

Spasex back in 2014 when no one even dreamed about the share of a virtually monopolist in commercial launches. Of course, when there were unsuccessful launches and all start-up schedules went astray went into the red. But you’re right, it’s too early to talk about roll-over profits, all these contracts have yet to be completed.

[SETTGF]

Wendigo! Do not write nonsense! The space industry is still unprofitable!

[Hole puncher]

Quote: SETTGF

Wendigo! Do not write nonsense! The space industry is still unprofitable!

Your impenetrable confidence is not based on logic, but on hatred and contempt for everything done in the USA

In an interview with CNBC, aerospace company president Gwynn Shotwell said that SpaceX has been profitable for several years in a row. Earlier, Bret Johnson, financial director of the company, said that SpaceX had no debts, but there was a cash reserve of $ 1 billion and contracts worth $ 10 billion. The latest rounds of financing increased the company's valuation to $ 28 billion, making it one of the most expensive private enterprises on the market .

[figwam]

Quote: Puncher

Gwynn Shotwell said that she has been profitable for several years in a row.

You never know what she says, you’re just like in a joke.


Grandfather in the wake of a sex therapist:
- Doctor, more than 3 times a week with my wife does not work.
- Grandfather, how old are you?
- 85
- Grandfather, well this is excellent!
- Yes? And my neighbor says that with his wife every day, and he is 95!
- Well, so you say !!!

[Muvka]

You didn’t say anything about your overwhelming figure? So they saw documents, reports. Give us the numbers. And not blah blah blah

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Muvka

You didn’t say anything about your overwhelming figure? So they saw documents, reports. Give us the numbers. And not blah blah blah

And you still declare it a lie.

In an interview with CNBC, aerospace company president Gwynn Shotwell said that SpaceX has been profitable for several years in a row. Earlier, Bret Johnson, financial director of the company, said that SpaceX had no debts, but there was a cash reserve of $ 1 billion and contracts worth $ 10 billion. The latest rounds of financing increased the company's valuation to $ 28 billion, making it one of the most expensive private enterprises on the market .

[anykin]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: Muvka
You didn’t say anything about your overwhelming figure? So they saw documents, reports. Give us the numbers. And not blah blah blah

And you still declare it a lie.

Excuse

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Wendigo

Quote: aszzz888

Do not be afraid of what you want!

For several years, patriots on the site chanted that all these masked steps were an economically untenable fake, and now Roskosmos did not give a damn about the opinion of these same patriots trying to catch a train that had long been hidden from view. How shoud I understand this?

The most difficult thing for the Mask is to ensure that the engines start at hypersonic countercurrent air during braking and descent. Distinguish options. This is not the same thing as forehead and forehead.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: aszzz888

Upon return, a modified serial turbojet engine will be used.

The brand new here is the application for the return of a modified serial turbojet engine. This is a very interesting option. The fact is that an empty rocket, and even an ultralight class, will be practically weightless, and engine power with a reserve of fuel for working for a couple of tens of minutes will be so inconspicuous in its mass that it will practically not affect the mass of cargo removal. It seems to me that this is much more reliable than starting the main engines for braking and lowering in the mode of hypersonic countercurrents of air during descent. Aerodynamic taxiing also leads to more reliable and high-quality taxiing to the landing point. I wonder how it had never occurred to anyone in such a simple and real way.

[Wendigo]

Testing of the first reusable returnable rocket scheduled in Russia in 2022

I think by that time, looking at the trend of recent years, the share of commercial launches at Roskosmos will be zero. And for individual government orders to create this missile is another economic madness.

[just exp]

it is already almost zero, because instead of work one deer was engaged in jokes about a trampoline.

[Wendigo]

Quote: just explo

she is almost zero

And so that it would not be so insulting to Roskosmos that I inform that nasa is also in the losers, the same relic of the past. Nasa is increasingly turning from an executor into an intermediary between the state and private traders. I do not exclude that at the next “revision”, nasa will be closed as an absolutely inefficient asset.

[Igor V]

Liberasts have been "burying" everything and everyone "in this country" for a quarter of a century, however, we live and do not die. And about commercial launches - do not even hope that everything will be! Experience suggests.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Igor V

Liberasts have been "burying" everything and everyone "in this country" for a quarter of a century, however, we live and do not die. And about commercial launches - do not even hope that everything will be! Experience suggests.

The Investigative Committee of Russia (TFR) is conducting a preliminary investigation into the theft of money taken from Colonel Dmitry Zakharchenko’s apartment.

The tragic news came in the afternoon on Sunday, May 27th. The missing boy was found dead. The baby's body was discovered by a resident of the village on the territory of a local school. The child drowned in the cesspool of the school toilet. - About one hundred children study at our school - they come from neighboring villages. The director has already requested a toilet in the building. But there was not enough money for this.

[anykin]

The empty people however.

[milling machine]

Quote: Wendigo

Testing of the first reusable returnable rocket scheduled in Russia in 2022

I think by that time, looking at the trend of recent years, the share of commercial launches at Roskosmos will be zero. And for individual government orders to create this missile is another economic madness.

You forgot that the wings and the chassis also weigh something.
Yes, and the nose cone there should somehow jam after separation of this stage.
And yes, such a method was invented for a long time, and came to the conclusion that the vertical line like the Mask is more effective.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: frezer

You forgot that the wings and the chassis also weigh something.

Have you forgotten that the Falcon also has a chassis? Moreover, it is much more difficult and harder than that of Baikal. Secondly, well, and what is the proportion of fuel in the landing mass of the stage?

Yes, and the nose cone there should somehow jam after separation of this stage.

What is it?

And yes, such a method was invented for a long time, and came to the conclusion that the vertical line like the Mask is more effective.

Who's come? How? Where are the calculations?

[milling machine]

Quote: Avis-bis

What is it?

And how do you imagine the separated first stage? How should the mounting unit for the second stage look like? And at the same time, after separation, it should be pointed, as it flies by plane.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: frezer

after separation, it should be pointed, as it flies by plane.

What is it?
About the mounting unit the same question.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Avis-bis

Have you forgotten that the Falcon also has a chassis?

In your parallel universe, yes, there is.

Quote: Avis-bis

Secondly, well, and what is the proportion of fuel in the landing mass of the stage?

It’s the same as that of Proton or the Union, only in the latter these tons of fuel spread when falling along the Altai Territory, causing anger among local ecologists, and in Mask it burns out during landing.

Quote: Avis-bis

What is it?

Yes, yes, is that your style, FOOVOOOO?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: Avis-bis

Have you forgotten that the Falcon also has a chassis?

In your parallel universe, yes, there is.

You first ask what is the chassis. It does not always look like you are used to seeing when flying to resorts on charter flights.

[Gargantua]

Quote: Wendigo

And for individual government orders to create this missile is another economic madness.

Hey no! You completely forgot about the need to replenish the list of billionaires in Forbes magazine from among the close circle of Putin and Medvedev. As life shows, the federal budget for this is the only source that allows you to jump from pawns to kings, in view of the depletion of the food supply in the country.

[svp67]

He said that the Roskosmos and UAC engineers are working on the program of the reusable space-rocket system of the ultralight class. An advance design of the returned missile block has already been completed.

How beautiful, one thing is frustrating that there, that there are people named Rogozin at the helm, which means that this will be implemented, is already being questioned ... Unfortunately, very much.

According to Satovsky, the scheme provides for the separation of the first stage of the carrier at an altitude of about 60 km and its return to the launch area with a landing on the runway. Upon return, a modified serial turbojet will be used. The unit will be equipped with a rectangular wing and tail.

I already heard something similar, back in Soviet times. "Burlak" system was called
, as well as "Rise-1K"

Whenever I encounter this, the words immediately come to mind: "Long live, created by the will of the people, GREAT, MIGHTY SOVIET UNION !!!"

[123456789]

Quote: svp67

How beautiful, one thing is frustrating that there, that there are people named Rogozin at the helm, which means that this will be implemented, is already being questioned ... Unfortunately, very much.

Believe impotent persona

[Avis-bis]

at an altitude of about 60 km and its return to the launch area with landing on the runway. Upon return, a modified serial turbojet engine will be used.

To hell? From a height of 60 km, even with a quality of 10 (a very mediocre indicator), you can plan at least 500 km. Why the hell stealing payload in favor of turbofan engines and fuel for it? What a dream of reason?

[123456789]

Quote: Avis-bis

at an altitude of about 60 km and its return to the launch area with landing on the runway. Upon return, a modified serial turbojet engine will be used.

To hell? From a height of 60 km, even with a quality of 10 (a very mediocre indicator), you can plan at least 500 km. Why the hell stealing payload in favor of turbofan engines and fuel for it? What a dream of reason?

And the second round?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: 123456789

And the second round?

STS with Buran have now made a dumb face.
SA "Union" in general in a stupor.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Avis-bis

You can plan at least 500km.

Precise landing is not possible on such wings.

Quote: Avis-bis

Why the hell stealing payload in favor of turbofan engines and fuel for it?

The turbojet engine will allow you to precisely set the stage, although the idea is definitely crazy.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: Avis-bis

You can plan at least 500km.

Precise landing is not possible on such wings.

Quote: Avis-bis

Why the hell stealing payload in favor of turbofan engines and fuel for it?

The turbojet engine will allow you to precisely set the stage, although the idea is definitely crazy.

Well, if the Hole Puncher said so. :)))

[Vadim851]

A foggy future ...
Meanwhile, the 10th Falcon 9 this year successfully launched today.

[Wendigo]

About this here on the site even the news will not be! As it was about the previous few successful launches (not just the Mask). But about the fact that Musk transferred for the year 1 man’s flight to Mars, they will shout about it so that at the other end of the galaxy you will hear

[-Pollux]

Quote: Vadim851

Meanwhile, the 10th Falcon 9 this year successfully launched today.

Quote: Wendigo

About this here on the site even the news will not be! As it was about the previous few successful launches (not just the Mask).

In Falcon-9 there is nothing outstanding to report about each start.

Quote: Wendigo

But about the fact that Musk transferred for the year 1 man’s flight to Mars, they will shout about it so that at the other end of the galaxy you will hear

Just no one believes that the Mask will be able to deliver a living person to Mars. We, who grew up in the USSR on the books (articles) of Tsiolkovsky and Zander, want Mask to succeed, but his project is utopian.

[forty-eighth]

Quote: Pollux

Just no one believes that the Mask will be able to deliver a living person to Mars.

Man on Mars - he is like communism. A light in the end of a tunnel. Before this bright future, Musk faces mundane utilitarian tasks: launch a rocket to Mars, land a rocket to Mars, return a rocket from Mars ... Based on the results of these launches, it will be possible to plus or minus reliably estimate the probability of delivery of a person to Mars. Even if the impossibility of delivering a person becomes clear by the results of unmanned launches, it will in any case be a success, since humanity will in one way or another move from theory to practice interplanetary flights, albeit in the most pessimistic scenario and unsuccessful in the beginning.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: forty-eighth

Quote: Pollux

Just no one believes that the Mask will be able to deliver a living person to Mars.

Man on Mars - he is like communism. A light in the end of a tunnel. Before this bright future, Musk faces mundane utilitarian tasks: launch a rocket to Mars, land a rocket to Mars, return a rocket from Mars ... Based on the results of these launches, it will be possible to plus or minus reliably estimate the probability of delivery of a person to Mars. Even if the impossibility of delivering a person becomes clear by the results of unmanned launches, it will in any case be a success, since humanity will in one way or another move from theory to practice interplanetary flights, albeit in the most pessimistic scenario and unsuccessful in the beginning.

Cosmic radiation, not restrained by the atmosphere or the magnetic field of the Earth, will charge the traveler with 80% of the permissible dose already when flying in the direction of "there." On the "back" there will be no chance to return alive. Perhaps that is why Musk is selling one-way tickets to idiots?

[Wendigo]

Quote: Pollux

In Falcon-9 there is nothing outstanding to report about each start.

Delayed starts are an even more mundane thing, but why they are always here with wickedness to write about them.

Quote: Pollux

Just no one believes that the Mask will be able to deliver a living person to Mars

I do not believe only that the Mask will succeed in the terms announced by him. But I believe that the private trader will do it much faster than the state Nasa, Rosskosm, or whatever Esa.

[-Pollux]

Quote: Wendigo

Delayed starts are an even more mundane thing, but why they are always here with wickedness to write about them.

If you can be vicious about the Russian cosmonautics, then why not about the American?

Quote: Wendigo

But I believe that the private trader will do it much faster than the state Nasa, Rosskosm, or whatever Esa.

It's fantastic.

[Vadim237]

We look forward to its BFR interplanetary transport system in 2022.

[-Pollux]

Quote: Vadim237

We look forward to its BFR interplanetary transport system in 2022.

BFR is a utopian project. It can be built and it may fly, but its operation will be a series of disasters. 36 engines is a sentence.

[forty-eighth]

So, so, so ... We follow in the footsteps of the fraudster Mask with his "pasta". But what about those experts who calculated the loss-making of reusable steps? Where is that ghoul Dmitry Konanykhin with his article, where the crowds of followers sang along with him? It would be nice to listen to them.

[Muvka]

I'm here. Look at Tesla's losses. They are very huge. 5th consecutive quarter. And they are constantly growing. Now compare them with the start of the Falcon mass launches. If nothing clicks in your head, I feel sorry for you.

[forty-eighth]

So write, Kisa, write more to the UAC and Roscosmos. They don’t know about Tesla and the beginning of the Falcon mass launches. They heard something - exclusively at the edge of their ears! - about gigafactories, the development of the infrastructure of gas stations and the second spaceport, but about the huge losses of Tesla - no. Rogozin personally write. 5 years of chewing snot is not enough for us, we can discuss the accomplished events for another 5 years. And then the five-year plan in three years. Write.

[Muvka]

And here, if you read the article, they will plant the step in a completely different way.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Muvka

And here, if you read the article, they will plant the step in a completely different way.

And it's not even about landing methods. The point is in the tasks. We set ourselves the task of reusable flights to launch mini-satellites into orbit. The mask is reusable for passengers.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: forty-eighth

So write, Kisa, write more to the UAC and Roscosmos. They don’t know about Tesla and the beginning of the Falcon mass launches. They heard something - exclusively at the edge of their ears! - about gigafactories, the development of the infrastructure of gas stations and the second spaceport, but about the huge losses of Tesla - no. Rogozin personally write. 5 years of chewing snot is not enough for us, we can discuss the accomplished events for another 5 years. And then the five-year plan in three years. Write.

Do you need to copy everything at once and push money in? How about fusion lasers? Americans can afford to push money wherever they go, but we don’t, we don’t have money, but we hold on

[forty-eighth]

If you approach the issue without emotions, then you are certainly right. The one who goes in the first echelon not only takes off the cream, but also trips on pitfalls. Those who are in the second tier, the road is much cheaper. It is important to remember that the third echelon as such does not exist and those who do not keep pace with the first two are doomed to swallow their dust.
In principle, I think that the window of the first echelon has not yet been closed, and on the topic of reusable launches it makes sense to engage in research and development work. It is very scary that we are entering a new space era with two kettlebells on the feet of corruption and mediocre leaders. And again, "not thanks, but contrary to," and "overcome", and exploits, exploits, exploits ...

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Vol4ara

Quote: forty-eighth

So write, Kisa, write more to the UAC and Roscosmos. They don’t know about Tesla and the beginning of the Falcon mass launches. They heard something - exclusively at the edge of their ears! - about gigafactories, the development of the infrastructure of gas stations and the second spaceport, but about the huge losses of Tesla - no. Rogozin personally write. 5 years of chewing snot is not enough for us, we can discuss the accomplished events for another 5 years. And then the five-year plan in three years. Write.

Do you need to copy everything at once and push money in? How about fusion lasers? Americans can afford to push money wherever they go, but we don’t, we don’t have money, but we hold on

Draft designs are not a hardware implementation at all. They are helpful. Knowledge is being accumulated, computer-aided design systems are being developed, a base of working drawings is being developed. Expensive? Undoubtedly. But it’s not worth it and next to the price with attempts to implement in hardware. You can’t lag behind.

[123456789]

Quote: forty-eighth

So write, Kisa, write more to the UAC and Roscosmos. They don’t know about Tesla and the beginning of the Falcon mass launches. They heard something - exclusively at the edge of their ears! - about gigafactories, the development of the infrastructure of gas stations and the second spaceport, but about the huge losses of Tesla - no. Rogozin personally write. 5 years of chewing snot is not enough for us, we can discuss the accomplished events for another 5 years. And then the five-year plan in three years. Write.

But men don’t know

[Imobile]

Tesla losses are associated with the construction of a new innovative factory for the production of Tesla-3 automobile. Completion is expected in the 3rd quarter and in 4 is expected to yield profit and a breakthrough in the automotive market.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Imobile

Tesla losses are associated with the construction of a new innovative factory for the production of Tesla-3 automobile. Completion is expected in the 3rd quarter and in 4 is expected to yield profit and a breakthrough in the automotive market.

WORK WITHOUT PROFIT is the strategy of the Mask. No profit - taxes are not paid. Not with what. Is the value of its facilities growing? Of course. Forcing against own employees when instead of premiums shares of the enterprise are issued. No profit, what the hell dividends? Forcing against buyers of his car. Maintenance of cars purchased in the secondary market is not performed. Spare parts are not for sale. You can buy a car only on a prepayment basis. Loot scrolls in their own interests, and the buyer waits for three years. About 400 thousand pre-customers today. Look at the number of released for sale and it will become clear.
Doesn’t all this give the head off the idea that Musk will NEVER work in the usual modes for all? Talking about BREAKTHROUGH when producing cars in quantities less than 1% per year is elementary stupidity.

[spirit]

Mask’s losses are growing, rockets are flying) In the world, customers evaluate a company according to real affairs, and not according to the talk about the distant future like Rogozin’s. Probably all around fools just turn to the bankrupt Mask

[voyaka uh]

Mask's rockets are profitable, while cars are unprofitable.
He is scolded that he is pumping profits from Falcons at a loss
Tesla. But - the master is the master. Billionaire with his personal money
does what he wants

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: voyaka uh

Mask's rockets are profitable, while cars are unprofitable.
He is scolded that he is pumping profits from Falcons at a loss
Tesla. But - the master is the master. Billionaire with his personal money
does what he wants

This is not permissible and is punishable under US law as concealing tax revenues.

[-Pollux]

Quote: spirit

In the world, customers evaluate the company for real business.

Companies value by the difference between income and expenses, and not by "cases".

[123456789]

Quote: Pollux

Quote: spirit

In the world, customers evaluate the company for real business.

Companies value by the difference between income and expenses, and not by "cases".

What are the ways to evaluate a business - 4 main ways:
Method 1. Cost Estimation
Method 2. Estimation of the total value of assets
Method 3. Assessment by industry analogues
Method 4. Estimated cash flow forecast

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: spirit

Mask’s losses are growing, rockets are flying) In the world, customers evaluate a company according to real affairs, and not according to the talk about the distant future like Rogozin’s. Probably all around fools just turn to the bankrupt Mask

That is why he does not have tickets for tourists who want to fly to Mars.
Multiple and guaranteed safe flights of crews on its Falcons, heavy and even super-heavy missiles and reusable ships.

[milling machine]

Quote: Muvka

I'm here. Look at Tesla's losses. They are very huge. 5th consecutive quarter. And they are constantly growing. Now compare them with the start of the Falcon mass launches. If nothing clicks in your head, I feel sorry for you.

The reason for the loss of Tesla is that their new plant does not have time to reach full capacity. There are a lot of orders for cars, on model 3 the line is almost a year and a half.

[Muvka]

710 million dollars? For the quarter. Do you understand what this amount is?

[iwind]

Quote: Muvka

710 million dollars? For the quarter. Do you understand what this amount is?

And you? They bought almost $ 1 million worth of equipment in the 500st quarter alone and are building charging stations around the world.
what about tesla worry

This is a much bigger reason.
For almost 20 years there have been no new missiles.
We are modernizing the legacy that we got. 90 is long gone.
Khrunichev Center will release more than 200 buildings in Moscow
MOSCOW, June 1 - RIA News. Space Center named after Khrunicheva will free more than 200 buildings of the plant in Filevskaya floodplain, which produces Proton rockets and other space technology. A copy of the order to create a commission on the release of buildings and structures, signed by the Director General of the Center Alexei Varochko, is at the disposal of RIA Novosti.
As previously reported, the released area is planned to be given for development. In total, the company owns more than 140 hectares of land in the center of Moscow. The cost of land is estimated at 28,7 billion rubles.
"Create a commission to release buildings and premises from among the employees of the enterprise," the document says.
https://ria.ru/science/20180601/1521831706.html

Moscow. May 30. INTERFAX.RU - The Khrunichev Center will not create a new line of Proton missiles; personnel shifts in the leadership are not ruled out, a source at the enterprise told Interfax.

"The company faced severe financial difficulties. This forced to curtail work on projects of new modifications of the Proton missiles, including the medium Proton-L missile and the Proton-SL-2F carrier rocket based on the three-stage Proton-M using the Breeze-M booster block, the source said.

Work on the creation of the Proton-Light light rocket is also not underway.

Losses of the manufacturer of "Protons" in 2017 amounted to 23 billion rubles
MOSCOW, May 21 - RIA News. The manufacturer of the Proton and Angara rockets, the Khrunichev Space Center, in 2017 received a net loss of more than 23 billion rubles compared with the 1,8 billion profit in 2016, the company’s annual financial statements published on the Center’s website said.
Earlier it was reported that Khrunichev Center has requested additional funding in the amount of more than 30 billion rubles to improve production. The company spends 4,5 billion rubles each year on servicing bank loans. The plans of the enterprise include the sale of owned land in Filevskaya floodplain in the center of Moscow to cover losses.


Hangar ... there’s a sad story.

yes ... losses tesla is the main problem of Roskosmos

[Vkd dvk]

This is a consequence, not a cause. Musk artificially pumps out all profits to new construction, increasing the cost of the main asset, not paying taxes (no profit) and keeping pre-customers on a leash, forcing them to pay far into the future, not selling spare parts to outside maintenance companies, and not serving tesla purchased in the secondary market .
He turns the womb to all the idiots who want to have his car. They like it.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: frezer

Quote: Muvka

I'm here. Look at Tesla's losses. They are very huge. 5th consecutive quarter. And they are constantly growing. Now compare them with the start of the Falcon mass launches. If nothing clicks in your head, I feel sorry for you.

The reason for the loss of Tesla is that their new plant does not have time to reach full capacity. There are a lot of orders for cars, on model 3 the line is almost a year and a half.

Explain how the release of insufficient cars is connected with the presence or absence of profit? Do not teach us. what does profit depend on? Isn't that the difference between buying and selling? Including all taxes, of course? Selling little? And then what is he buying? Who Matroskin, apparently, was diligent you, since he knows that in order to buy something that is not needed, you first need to sell something that is not needed.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: forty-eighth

So, so, so ... We follow in the footsteps of the fraudster Mask with his "pasta".

In addition to reusability - no resemblance. We are talking about this project, which was brought to the layout in the last century.

[donavi49]

Pegasus (unlike this project - he flies himself in this class) - it can output up to 500kg. And now they are making a new carrier rocket from Stratolaunch Systems. A big one. With a large resource and reusability.

Plus, competition will increase in this segment. It’s one thing to assemble a medium-heavy rocket. Another baby. In the USA, there are already commercial offers of several private owners, plus RocketLab in New Zealand, plus the Chinese have recently flown.

[voyaka uh]

The Japanese rocket launches a satellite weighing 3 kg for $ 3,5 million.
A missile with a diameter of only 0,5 m and a length of 10 m.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Japanese rocket launches a satellite weighing 3 kg for $ 3,5 million.
A missile with a diameter of only 0,5 m and a length of 10 m.

1 kg = 1 million. A record high withdrawal price, with incredibly stringent requirements for weight. Fit into 3 kg - it is necessary to break more than one hundred smart heads.

[Imobile]

All articles of "urapatriots" after a while look like complete nonsense.

[Guru]

The development involved the project of the reusable Baikal accelerator

As far as I remember, Baikal is the second shuttle, the first was Buran.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Guru

The development involved the project of the reusable Baikal accelerator

As far as I remember, Baikal is the second shuttle, the first was Buran.

This is the namesake.

[astepanov]

Quote: Wendigo

What is that supposed to mean?

What is there to understand? It has long been known:
"It remains only to cry and believe
To the beloved Mother Motherland:
Arshin can’t measure it,
And the brain does not understand her. "

[rocket757]

That's when it flies, if it flies, then .... well, shaw, be it for sure!

[Imobile]

The author, correct the title should be "In Rosskosmos told how they will cut the budget"

[Snail N9]

The key word "told" ..... learned in Russia to feed everyone with "tales" for any reason ... yesterday I got an electric scooter from ..... China (with Aliexpress) .... here I am sitting studying how and what there to collect .... say in the year 22, "reusable" will fly ..... well, well ....

[Chicha squad]

This is what Musk gave the pendal to Roscosmos.

[milling machine]

Quote: Chicha Squad

This is what Musk gave the pendal to Roscosmos.

That's just the whole thing is that from this "pendal" Roscosmos did not run forward but fell and is unlikely to rise.

[Snail N9]

Yeah .... looks like a tortoise, turned on its back: lies and slowly fingering paws ....

[Vadim237]

Well, it’s getting ready for a trampoline.

[Igor V]

Maybe you shouldn’t publish articles on Roscosmos plans on Monday? Bile from the people accumulates a lot.

[123456789]

Quote: Igor V

Maybe you shouldn’t publish articles on Roscosmos plans on Monday? Bile from the people accumulates a lot.

Roscosmos - a dark subject, not subject to research

[1536]

Container bars, rastabars, and new space rockets as there were none. And, apparently, is not expected in the foreseeable future. One "boss" was proud that the Russian space program works as a "taxi fleet", another saw prospects in cooperation with the Americans (they worked together before the future flights of astronauts on American ships), the third says that there is no payload, there will be no rocket, just launch nothing ... A vicious circle, a vicious circle?
And maybe it’s right, well, its this Cosmos, who needs it? Here, for example, a wild boar runs around in the forest, frolics, but it cannot raise its eyes to the sky, a feature of the artiodactyl. But he lives the same, and good to him. And what a baseline of boar - you lick your fingers!

[Snail N9]

And who cuts his eggs (boar) in the forest? Boar smelly to impossibility ... Young, milk, wild pig, yes, you lick your fingers, and an adult boar fu ....

[1536]

You must be able to cook, then it will not stink.

[Snail N9]

Come on. You can beat the stench with spices and soaking, but hormones do not disappear, and they are very unhealthy ...

[1536]

In general, flying into space is harmful.

[voyaka uh]

"Calculations showed that the cost of withdrawal will be 1,5-2 times cheaper than conventional rockets of the same class. It is assumed that each unit will be able to make 50 flights without replacing the main engines" ///

Wow! It turns out that Elon Musk was not mistaken in the calculations. Russian designers have come to the same results.
True, the Mask marching engines on Falcon-9 "block-5" is planned to be used up to 100 times.

[Vladimirovich_4]

How do you like that, Ilon Musk?

[Old26]

Quote: Ded-Makar

We do not make noise, but quietly work by trial and error, and still achieve our goal

Yeah, it’s so quiet that you can’t see or hear ... And something can’t be seen, and of course mistakes ...

Quote: Ded-Makar

Remember how many screams and PR was .. This project went bankrupt completely!
We slowly harness the Russians, but drive fast .. I’m sure there ours will come up with something new, cheap and cheerful! We were the first in space to be and will remain so, no matter how hard it would be for us. I am sure of this guys!

Of course went bankrupt. If in previous years Musk launched several rockets a year, then the number of his missiles will be compared, or even exceed the number of missiles launched by Russia. Private owner by the number of launches caught up with the whole country

Quote: aristok

just the orbital plane was a dead end ...
which is brilliant and demonstrated an awkward shuttle.

Shuttles flew EMNIP 135 flights. And this concept has never been a dead end. Another thing is that they
Firstly, they made a mistake with the time of putting the OS in order for the next flight. It turned out to be much larger than expected. According to the initial plans, 1 shuttles were supposed to provide up to 4 flights a year, that is, they had to prepare the shuttle for flight in 52 weeks. It didn’t work out
Secondly, they made a mistake with potential customers. thought. that there will be a huge queue for them. All this together, plus technological problems, has led to the fact that the cost of flights has become very high (EMNIP about 2 million dollars). So competitiveness has declined.

Quote: 210ox

Of course, this is a project a quarter of a century ago .. About Baikal they spoke in the early 90s. Even the photo was on the runway. He sits on the plane.

Unfortunately, then the project was closed due to the fact that there were difficulties landing four accelerators at once on one airfield at the same time. They could not walk in a circle, too little fuel. Something like that.

Quote: Wedmak

What is that supposed to mean?

Maskov steps sit on the taxiway, and ours will be on the wing and turbojet engine - see the difference? And Musk somehow did not voice the number in the 50 takeoff and landing retries.

Let, as Zhvanetsky said, ask about the taste of lobsters from the one who ate them. Let us first build such an accelerator, and then we will talk about how many repetitions of take-off and landing it will complete. The Americans also thought that the shuttle was able to complete up to 100 take-off and landing cycles, but the numbers were several times smaller ...
In addition, we swing as much as 600 kg payload. Is a return unit necessary for such a system? Is the game worth the candle?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Old26

there were difficulties landing four accelerators at once on one airfield at the same time. They could not walk in a circle, too little fuel. Something like that.

"Are there many Don Pedrov in Brazil?" At that time, we had military airdromes stuck at each hillock. They can be planted in 4 different, range planning (without a motor) allowed. And the reserve of altitude / speed allowed creating longitudinal intervals between the devices: the first goes immediately to the airfield, the second performs one “orbit”, the second - two and so on.

[donavi49]

Of course went bankrupt. If in previous years Musk launched several rockets a year, then the number of his missiles will be compared, or even exceed the number of missiles launched by Russia. Private owner by the number of launches caught up with the whole country

In the past 2017 - Mask 18 / 18
RF - 18 / 16.

In this 2018:
Musk - 11 of them 7 commercial customers (2xSES, Hisdesat, Hispasat, 2xIridium, the first Bangladeshi space debris in orbit from BTRC) and one half commercial (CRS14 + a bunch of Kenyan, Turkish and other debris). Yes, Mask - 100% commercial. But we will accept the rules of Roscosmos 7,5 launches from private customers from 11.

Roscosmos - 7 of them 2 commercial customers (ESA, SES) and the half of the February mission with Canopus, where along the way they drove the American and German cubes into orbit.

Actually the result is clear. And the end of the year will be a very tight bill. For Mask has a full flight program with commercial launches. And Roscosmos has as many as 2 missiles with a commercial load in terms of this year yet. Total 4,5 - against 15-17 starts in the interests of private customers at Mask for this year.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Old26

The Americans also thought that the shuttle was capable of performing take-off and landing until 100 cycles, but the numbers were several times smaller ...

Why less? Could fly up to 100 times ... maybe it would work out ... That's just from a certain (in a row) launch flights "turn" into ,, Russian roulette "... And so .... fly, gray-winged pigeons ... fly!

[Vadim237]

Now there are CAD systems that allow the model to check numerous cyclic loads and deformations - modeling fracture tests.

[race]

The cryogenic mixture “liquid oxygen - liquefied methane” will serve as fuel for them.

Well, what else ?! Gazprom has already reached space! It seems that a total transition to gas engine fuel is planned, which Roskosmos cannot avoid. :)

[Aqr009]

And why are all the pictures of "Baikal" presented in the form of a "cross"?
At TsAGI, already about 3 years ago, they calculated the shape of the wing, and recommended abandoning the folding and straight, because in them, at high speeds, critical stresses arise in the nodes of the structure.
Here is the recommended form:

[A. Privalov]

"The avanproject has already been completed ..."

Avanproekt - type of initial technical documentation containing justification of product development and its indicators, initial requirements and proposals for the development, production and operation of products. The avanproject includes: an explanatory note, the necessary drawings, diagrams, calculations, as well as the draft technical specifications for product development. Approval of the preliminary design by the customer or the main consumer and developer is a prerequisite for the start of product development.

And four years later will be tested? Given that the project of the reusable accelerator "Baikal", seventeen years ago, has not yet been developed. (Maybe because of its strange shape? )

[Hole puncher]

Quote: A. Privalov

Maybe because of its strange shape?

for sure ...

[Vadim237]

Here about this "rocket" wrote in the article - but this is not a rocket, but an unmanned hypersonic accelerator on which a payload weighing up to 900 kilograms will be placed

[Nikolaevich I]

cryogenic mixture "liquid oxygen - liquefied methane".
I mean .... methane must be liquefied, and oxygen is already liquid! You look, and in the store you can ask ... a bottle of liquid oxygen! ....? And so .... cryogenic tanks ..... this is the extra dimensions (and the price ...)! Interesting .... did anyone figure out the feasibility of using hydrite hydrogen batteries instead of liquefied hydrogen?

[Old26]

Quote: Avis-bis

"Are there many Don Pedrov in Brazil?" At that time, we had military airdromes stuck at each hillock. They can be planted in 4 different, range planning (without a motor) allowed. And the reserve of altitude / speed allowed creating longitudinal intervals between the devices: the first goes immediately to the airfield, the second performs one “orbit”, the second - two and so on.

It may very well be. But as far as I remember publications on this topic, Baikal was supposed to return to the start, that is, to Baikonur. and what do you mean, "performs one orbit" of the second - two, etc.?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Old26

what do you mean, "performs one orbit" of the second - two, etc.?

"Orbit" - a 360 ° turn. One turn creates a longitudinal interval of a minute or two. You can do more - at their speed. At Baikonur, there are at least two airdromes - Yubileiny and I don’t remember the second. It’s not a problem to put two gliders on one strip; it is solved by the simplest program: one to the left of the course beam and the other to the right. And it is possible to plant steppes in the prepared area - on skis. Or on the sides of the runway, there are always very well-groomed sidewalls - GVPP and BPB. There would be a desire to solve the problem.

[123456789]

He (the head of the project team of the Advanced Research Foundation (FPI) Boris Satovsky) said that the engineers of Roscosmos and the UAC are working on a program of a reusable ultra-light rocket and space system.

Even under the Union there was competition:

Korolev, Chelomey, Yakovlev, Sukhoi, Mikoyan and Gurevich ...
United Corporations are a direct path to stagnation through a lack of competition.
A comparison with the Mask proves this very well!
What prevents Roskosmos from announcing a tender?

[Snail N9]

Already announced .... ended with "garage" developments ...

[123456789]

Quote: Snail N9

Already announced .... ended with "garage" developments ...

history repeats itself twice: the first time as a tragedy, the second time as a farce

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: 123456789

He (the head of the project team of the Advanced Research Foundation (FPI) Boris Satovsky) said that the engineers of Roscosmos and the UAC are working on a program of a reusable ultra-light rocket and space system.

Even under the Union there was competition:

Korolev, Chelomey, Yakovlev, Sukhoi, Mikoyan and Gurevich ...
United Corporations are a direct path to stagnation through a lack of competition.
A comparison with the Mask proves this very well!
What prevents Roskosmos from announcing a tender?

In an artificially closed system that is not in contact with the world, the "competition" between the Chief Designers was an imitation of competition. Korolev and Chelomei. Divorced by subject. One is a military commissar and trucks, the other is astronautics. Aviation workers. Divorced bombers, fighter, assault, naval and interceptors. Fighter divorced into light and heavy. Who crossed the road to whom? Myasischev and Tupolev. Is it possible to talk about the competition of Yakovlev, the former Minister of Aircraft with Mikoyan? Do not confuse the planned management, batch production of different and all with real competition. What about today's mess with helicopters? What the hell is competition when dozens of almost the same types are made at the same time?
Today, amid the poverty of the budget, spray on dozens of KB, nourish everyone? Enough competition with the USA, China, Europe.

[Avis-bis]

Vkd dvk,
Yes, and hell would be with them 2,5 thousand. There is fuel, mainly. And characterize yourself with sharpness. Initially, you talked about some sort of “60 tons of ballast,” that is, about the orbiter, and not about the ratio of useful / MZL. I only objected to this. Do not bother.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Avis-bis

Vkd dvk,
Yes, and hell would be with them 2,5 thousand. There is fuel, mainly. And characterize yourself with sharpness. Initially, you talked about some sort of “60 tons of ballast,” that is, about the orbiter, and not about the ratio of useful / MZL. I only objected to this. Do not bother.

I speak now. What role does the SHUTTLE STRUCTURE play? Why push 7 people there? What is this crowd of loafers doing there, the whole flight, alternately getting up to the instruments, and conducting their experiments? all at once, nowhere, no energy,
WEEK, this is for everyone, for 7 people and with an emergency reserve in case of an emergency stop there, in orbit. For example, a hurricane at the finish line. After all, they only have 2 landing strips, and the period of circulation does not allow to drop down at ANY moment. This descent vehicle of the Union can be dropped almost anywhere. The territory is huge, the stripes are not needed, you just need to accurately calculate and know in advance where to land. Water and mountains are dangerous. Cities are not desirable.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: wkd dvk

Why push 7 people there?

Ask NASA. The designers did exactly what was required, created an aircraft with a good weight return. And why the concept didn’t “shoot”, this is a separate issue.

What is this crowd of loafers doing there, the whole flight, alternately getting up to the instruments, and conducting their experiments?

What aplomb. :) What a noble indignation. :) To you at a meeting of a pioneerdruzhina of classmates to overshoot - very familiar notes. :) Two pilots. Two "utility" (duplication). It's minimum. And not always seven flew. There were five and four. And there were 8, seven could not cope.

WEEK, this is for everyone, for 7 people

Before two. Full crew, all-round. Five times for sure.

After all, they only have 2 runways

They have at least three of them - still in Africa.

This descent vehicle of the Union can be dropped almost anywhere.

Nude Nude. If for you the astronaut is cannon fodder, then of course ...

you just need to calculate exactly

Yeah ... On a rag with ropes - "calculate". Nude Nude.

Water and mountains are dangerous.

Yeah ... You, apparently, are not aware of the percentage of the Earth’s coverage with water. "At any moment," yeah. And, by the way, they also fell in the mountains, almost dying. The shuttle would just board the runway.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Avis-bis

Quote: wkd dvk

Why push 7 people there?

Ask NASA. The designers did exactly what was required, created an aircraft with a good weight return. And why the concept didn’t “shoot”, this is a separate issue.

What is this crowd of loafers doing there, the whole flight, alternately getting up to the instruments, and conducting their experiments?

What aplomb. :) What a noble indignation. :) To you at a meeting of a pioneerdruzhina of classmates to overshoot - very familiar notes. :) Two pilots. Two "utility" (duplication). It's minimum. And not always seven flew. There were five and four. And there were 8, seven could not cope.

WEEK, this is for everyone, for 7 people

Before two. Full crew, all-round. Five times for sure.

After all, they only have 2 runways

They have at least three of them - still in Africa.

This descent vehicle of the Union can be dropped almost anywhere.

Nude Nude. If for you the astronaut is cannon fodder, then of course ...

you just need to calculate exactly

Yeah ... On a rag with ropes - "calculate". Nude Nude.

Water and mountains are dangerous.

Yeah ... You, apparently, are not aware of the percentage of the Earth’s coverage with water. "At any moment," yeah. And, by the way, they also fell in the mountains, almost dying. The shuttle would just board the runway.

Let's start little by little.
The astronaut is cannon fodder.
It is necessary to be just an idiot to prohibit, in an emergency, a giggle from orbit at any convenient time when you are above your territory. Or a criminal. So cannon fodder, give the opportunity to escape in a much greater time and over a vast territory? Or it’s better to be an affectionate philanthropist, to make him wait an hour and a half in a burning ship until he equals the ability to land on THREE strips, all over the globe. Is your brain so stuck that you do not understand the difference?
Further. TWO weeks is the region after which the third part of the sonata for piano No. 2 (Chopin) begins to play. NEVER bring to the edge and NEVER Shuttle hung in orbit, autonomously, more than 10 days. With a full crew.

As a designer, I declare that up to 80% of ALL errors in creating a new one are made at the stage of setting the task. That is, at the very beginning of the work. What you observe on the example of this iron. Coverage is NOT water, NOT mountains, and NOT enemy territory, where you can’t land in any case, in other words, your own land, where you are always welcome, is still a much larger area than the three lanes where the Shuttle will simply land. Any system is projected onto disgracefully unsuccessful combinations of circumstances. If the system works just then, therefore, it will certainly work in more sparing modes. So, you went very far with your affectionate assumptions. When everything is in daisies and the good subsides.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: wkd dvk

You just need to be an idiot to prohibit in an emergency, to squeak from orbit at any convenient time when you are above your territory.

When over his. That's just the Soviet Union does not occupy the whole Earth.

give an opportunity to escape in a much greater time and over a vast territory?

Indeed, the World Ocean is a huge territory, there are many sharks, they will be delighted. And mountains to a fig on land. Sig, do not mind.

with the ability to land on THREE strips, all over the globe

When leaving the orbit of the shuttle, the width of the maneuver, EMNIP, 6000 nm. This is half the equator. An hour and a half is not required to wait. Yes, and the shuttle technically could board any sufficiently long and strong lane, for example, designed for the B-52. And the USA has such airbases around the world - a wagon with a trolley. This option could not be worked out.
However, no one can land on a burning spacecraft. Do not write nonsense.

Is your brain so stuck

Boy, hold your tongue, not too zealous. It at YOU is clearly not intended for speech.

The Shuttle has NEVER hung in orbit, autonomously, for more than 10 days. With a full crew.

Vyunosh, read the list of flights before writing nonsense about things that you do not understand.

Coverage is NOT water, NOT mountains, and NOT enemy territory, where you can’t land in any case, in other words, your own land, where you are always welcome

Once again, for those who skipped the lessons of "Natural History" - our spacecraft are not at every turn pass over the territory of the USSR. Far from every turn over our territory, you can sit on a normal surface.

So, you went very far

are you bored alone? :)

[fa2998]

Quote: Avis-bis

The first step can also be airplane - see on the Spiral. Or the An-225 + MAX system.

But these are only unrealized projects, meanwhile the Americans launch the Pegasus on a regular B-52.
And yet, 600 kg of payload is cool. Of course, you have to drag turbojet engines into space. And interestingly, what does he work on? Obviously not on rocket fuel, it also turns out to carry kerosene. Isn't it easier to build Pegasus?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: fa2998

[
But these are only unrealized projects.

I, as it were, in the know. Why are you doing this?

launch Pegasus on a regular B-52.

Actually, with an even more ordinary “TriStara”.

And yet, 600 kg of payload is cool. Of course, you have to drag turbojet engines into space. And interestingly, what does he work on? Obviously not on rocket fuel, it also turns out to carry kerosene. Isn't it easier to build Pegasus?

This did not understand why.

[Heterocapsa]

did not understand, but return by parachute or what?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Heterocapsa

did not understand, but return by parachute or what?

The development involved the project of the reusable Baikal accelerator.

About ten times mentioned and shown in the comments.

[Old26]

Quote: Avis-bis

"Orbit" - a 360 ° turn. One turn creates a longitudinal interval of a minute or two. You can do more - at their speed. At Baikonur, there are at least two airdromes - Yubileiny and I don’t remember the second. It’s not a problem to put two gliders on one strip; it is solved by the simplest program: one to the left of the course beam and the other to the right. And it is possible to plant steppes in the prepared area - on skis. Or on the sides of the runway, there are always very well-groomed sidewalls - GVPP and BPB. There would be a desire to solve the problem.

Thanks for clarifying. But on Baikonur, only the Jubilee one can be used for this. Extreme, almost within the city, and hardly scarred with everything necessary for such purposes. But here's what I remember exactly from the publications - the impossibility of landing simultaneously. It has sunk. But the reasons for the impossibility alas. not remembered

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Old26

what I remember exactly from publications is the impossibility of landing simultaneously. It has sunk. But the reasons for the impossibility alas. not remembered

Well, maybe it was from the "grape green" series. “Baikal” appeared when everything began to crumble in the ex-USSR, and they came up with an excuse. A couple then you can definitely network. The first to program for the flight, the second to land in signs. Or each to a different landing zone. They probably needed tens of meters no more to run. And the strip there is five kilometers, EMNIP. And 70 or 100 meters wide. They would fit.

[slipped]

advance project from FPI



“As part of the pre-project, various layout options were prepared, aerodynamics, weighting, and so on were calculated. After deciding to continue this work, we will begin technical design, the goal of which will be to create a number of flight demonstrators”

The work was carried out by specialists of the Foundation for Advanced Research, Roscosmos and JSC "EMZ named after V.M. Myasishchev"

"The result of the research should be a full-featured demonstrator with a rocket engine, which will be able to complete the entire test cycle, starting from the start and bringing to the required height, ending with the return and automatic landing

[meGrail]

As usual, first we laugh with "stupid Americans", and then repeat after them

[Old26]

Quote: Avis-bis

Or each to a different landing zone. They probably needed tens of meters no more to run. And the strip there is five kilometers, EMNIP.

The mileage at Baikal is 1200 m. The strip at Yubileynoye is really large, not 5 km, but about this - 4,5

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Old26

Mileage at Baikal - 1200 m

It’s strange. He must weigh some hundreds kg without fuel. Well, with an engine - a couple of tons.

[Old26]

Quote: Avis-bis

When over his. That's just the Soviet Union does not occupy the whole Earth.

Fortunately, at the dawn of astronautics, an international treaty was signed to help the cosmonauts (astronauts) of other countries. The country on the territory of which the descent vehicle landed was supposed to assist the astronauts (astronauts), including the medical one, and the astronauts (astronauts) were to be returned, like the descent vehicle. Fortunately, there has not been a single such case. Theoretically, he could be in the second flight of Lazarev and Makarov. when a pitch buildup occurred in the 3-stage operation area and the SAS separated the ship from the carrier. He crashed along a ballistic trajectory in the Altai mountains. Purely theoretically, he could get to the adjacent territory

Quote: Avis-bis

Indeed, the World Ocean is a huge territory, there are many sharks, they will be delighted. And mountains to a fig on land. Sig, don't mind

Even if there are no sharks, the buoyancy of the SA is not unlimited. And where the SA will crash into the water, how many hours the rescuers (by plane) will reach the landing area, how many to look for in the approximate square is unknown. IMHO, precisely because of this, on a manned version of the "Angara" - "Angara A-5P" was put bold coest. At the second stage, which carries out the orbit, only one engine. In the event of an accident, the ship will crash at the Pacific Ocean. And not the fact that the rescuers have time to get there to the fatal end

Quote: Avis-bis

When leaving the orbit of the shuttle, the width of the maneuver, EMNIP, 6000 nm. This is half the equator. An hour and a half is not required to wait. Yes, and the shuttle technically could board any sufficiently long and strong lane, for example, designed for the B-52. And the USA has such airbases around the world - a wagon with a trolley. This option could not be worked out.

IMHO a little less lateral maneuver EMNIP was 2500 km (but this is not accurate) but that is not the point. He could sit on any strip of the 1st class airfield.
We also assumed the EMNIP of 6 main landing airports - Bila Tserkva, Simferopol, Vladimirovka, Leninsk, Khorol, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky (although the reconstruction was completed at a smaller number). But any class 1 airfield could become a reserve

Quote: Avis-bis

It’s strange. He must weigh some hundreds kg without fuel. Well, with an engine - a couple of tons.

Alas, Sergei, no. Baikal's starting weight was 130,5 tons, landing weight was 18 tons (the dry weight of Baikal itself was about 17,5 tons). The maximum radius of return is 410 km, Guaranteed - 384 km.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Old26

Fortunately, at the dawn of astronautics, an international treaty was signed to help the cosmonauts (astronauts) of other countries.

This is yes, but I'm a little different. Not all countries have experience in search and rescue. Basically, these are the countries of the “1st / 2nd World”, but 3/4 of the land is covered by countries where the “cessna” fly in the Air Force and armed trawlers float in the Navy. Especially in the era of the dawn of astronautics.

Theoretically, he could be in the second flight of Lazarev and Makarov. when a pitch buildup occurred in the 3-stage operation area and the SAS separated the ship from the carrier. He crashed along a ballistic trajectory in the Altai mountains.

I hinted at them. They almost fell off the cliff. The winged SA would condescendingly look at this Altai while flying to the airfield.

Even if there are no sharks

Well, that was a metaphor. :)

SA buoyancy is not unlimited

In-in.

IMHO a little less lateral maneuver EMNIP was 2500 km (but this is not accurate) but that is not the point.

Even that is enough. 5000km is at latitude, say, 20 ° is ~ 1/6 of a circle ..

He could sit on any strip of the 1st class airfield.

Well, that’s “yes,” I meant that the Americans, if possible, would not want to shine the shuttle anywhere and most likely they would first land on their airbases, since they were all around the world even then.

We also assumed EMNIP 6

And Ulyanovsk / East?

Baikal's starting weight was 130,5 tons, landing weight was 18 tons (the dry weight of Baikal itself was about 17,5 tons)

Interesting, thanks.

Maximum radius of return - 410 km

I thought 500. Well, a circle with a diameter of 700-800km is also not bad.

[Slon379]

Quote: just EXPL

if there were no difference b, then we would have had a returnable rocket for a long time.
by the way, if you don’t know about mattresses, he also had his own Buran, they called him Shuttle.
however, its presence did not make it so that the Mask steps had to be developed from scratch.

They are Americans)) Saturn was, all the technology lost. Here again, from scratch, everyone is developing.

[Old26]

Quote: kakvastam

The Buran is far from a clone of the shuttle - it's a clean orbital glider, unlike an orbital plane with an outboard tank. The concept was more flexible, since Energia could withdraw not only the shuttle, but also other massive loads. If Yeltsin hadn’t been with Gorbachev, it might have turned out to be worthwhile.

It depends on what. there were EMNIP 3 variants of our ship and one of them was tracing paper as the aerodynamics of the American shuttle. Similarly, three shuttle engines were planned. And on the tank (that is, what later became the central unit of Energia had no engines. TWO solid-fuel boosters were also planned in the same way, but the completion of the engines would have thrown the Buran program back by 10 years. Therefore, as a result of the work, they got what they got The ship is similar but not a copy

[Old26]

Quote: Avis-bis

And Ulyanovsk / East?

Honestly, I don’t remember that Ulyanovsk appeared. But as already mentioned above, any class 1 airfield could be used

Quote: Slon379

They are Americans)) Saturn was, all the technology lost. Here again, from scratch, everyone is developing.

Kakmrad Oleg! Do not recklessly repeat the scribble that is being circulated in our media. They are thus trying to dot the I. They say how it is, then they could, but now they don't, then they couldn't. This is the logic of their reasoning.
As for the SATURNA-5, at one time, before the advent of ENERGY, it was an outstanding rocket. And as for the loss of technology, yes, they are lost. And this is not unusual. Half a century has passed since the creation of this rocket. And of course, technology has been lost. A huge number of materials and devices ceased to be produced. That is, now the Americans can repeat the SATURN-5, but this will not be the SATURNY that flew then. New appliances, new materials - there will be a replica, but no more. Which, moreover, will have to be tested. Do you really think that we did not have and do not have such losses. Almost certainly, we have lost the production technology of the same R-1 missile, and the royal R-7 in its original form. Just like them, we have new devices, new materials, etc.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Old26

Quote: Avis-bis

And Ulyanovsk / East?

Honestly, I don’t remember that Ulyanovsk appeared. But as already mentioned above, any class 1 airfield could be used

Quote: Slon379

They are Americans)) Saturn was, all the technology lost. Here again, from scratch, everyone is developing.

Kakmrad Oleg! Do not recklessly repeat the scribble that is being circulated in our media. They are thus trying to dot the I. They say how it is, then they could, but now they don't, then they couldn't. This is the logic of their reasoning.
As for the SATURNA-5, at one time, before the advent of ENERGY, it was an outstanding rocket. And as for the loss of technology, yes, they are lost. And this is not unusual. Half a century has passed since the creation of this rocket. And of course, technology has been lost. A huge number of materials and devices ceased to be produced. That is, now the Americans can repeat the SATURN-5, but this will not be the SATURNY that flew then. New appliances, new materials - there will be a replica, but no more. Which, moreover, will have to be tested. Do you really think that we did not have and do not have such losses. Almost certainly, we have lost the production technology of the same R-1 missile, and the royal R-7 in its original form. Just like them, we have new devices, new materials, etc.

The main reason is not even that. The Apollo program was a trump card, the cry of the soul of Americans. Absolutely crazy money was thrown, hundreds, possibly more, of different firms were connected. Contractors, sub, sub, sub ..... to a degree .... Capitalists. what to take from them? Order completed. Loot received. Equipment, materials, devices, specialists and space cost money. In our USSR, this was microfilmed, archived, strategic things were stored in the warehouses of the first department of enterprises. Factories were obligated to produce products that were being removed from production for at least 10 years, before the expiration of the warranty period, the iron pieces in service. Specialists reoriented to peaceful products. If the USSR did not collapse, I am convinced that we would not lose either Energy or Buran. The capitalist sells everything. what else can be sold. SO INFORMATION, drawings of auxiliary equipment, stands, stocks, lodges, and all sorts of other things were lost. Iron broke up, people were driven out, papers were grinded to maintain secrecy.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Avis-bis

Have you really heard of Spacelab?

You grind rubbish all the time. Perhaps you will show a power supply system sufficient for lengthy and energy-intensive experiments? Kohl, so informed, but what power can you have in this submodule?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: wkd dvk

Quote: Avis-bis

Have you really heard of Spacelab?

You grind rubbish all the time. Perhaps you will show a power supply system sufficient for lengthy and energy-intensive experiments? Kohl, so informed, but what power can you have in this submodule?

You sent me somewhere there, well, keep your mark, and don't be a shy woman.