The Syrian army is in dire need of a tank-based fire support vehicle.

The ongoing military operation in Syria demonstrates that government forces are still in dire need of a fire support vehicle. Now for these purposes self-propelled installations "Shilka" are used, however their protection remains insufficient and needs strengthening, writes Messenger of Mordovia.

It would be optimal to create such a technique based on tanks, and Syrian craftsmen made several attempts to do this, but their options can not be compared with the BMPT-72 Terminator-2 existing in Russia.

“For the Syrian conditions, it was possible to create a somewhat simplified version of this powerful combat vehicle. The main thing is that the combat module with two automatic small-caliber 2А42 guns with ammunition in 850 shells remains unchanged. And also a PKTM machine gun paired with guns, equipped with an automatic reloading device. Its ammunition compares 2100 cartridges, ”reads the publication by Dmitry Lemeshko.

It was previously reported that this module can be installed on the T-72, T-62 and T-55 chassis. But it is necessary that the upgraded car received modern dynamic protection.

According to the author, the use of such technology in Syria "will surely attract new buyers to it, who will want for relatively small money to get at their disposal unique machines with outstanding performance."

Comments

[Russia]

If it is necessary, it is necessary to give, there is no better place for testing.

[Hunter 2]

Vitaliy, we’ve already experienced the duck! The result - they staked out a new “theme” in armored vehicles!
Now it's up to the manufacturer! Our Army and Navy - also need such machines! And not a piece. Generals - let them scratch their forehead, for the tactical use of these machines!

[Russia]

Well, God forbid, Alex! Once said good, then needed.

[Hunter 2]

Vitaliy - Sincerely Believe (in Myself) and our Generals - Admirals! We have - smart heads - WRITE tactics, from and to! The machine is interesting, on which platform to do - the question ???? !!! But in Chechnya, I can say - I would take a worthy place !!! And Syria - confirmed!

[okko077]

I just don’t quite understand how the experience of combating partisans is being transformed into full-scale military operations with aviation, missiles .... What tactics can be prescribed? A few cars in the third tier for the final stripping ... Excuse me, from this little-used machine, even a good one, make a unique combat creation? Not there you are looking for the keys of victory ... And so everywhere ... The shelters offer, if not useless, then a very specific, secondary weapon. with the filing of wretched military leaders. pouting cheeks and leading our army to degradation !!! Where are the modern Combat Information Systems for real-time monitoring of target areas and target designation providing coordination and application of our weapons systems in real time again? Again you will be stacking heroes of spotters, again tanks and personnel at the front with the prospect of losses of hundreds of thousands or more? .. Enrages ... this .... .., stupidity ....

[Hunter 2]

Okko77, Valery - Do you propose limiting the release of weapons to ballistic missiles? That is yes! For all cases, KOZYR! The question, after all, is that a serious, full-blown war is feared by Everyone .... and thank God! And there are plenty of calls, just for - these cars !!!
Well, for the control of positional areas .... in vain is it that Glonas’s group is constantly increasing, drones are trying to do and are doing ??? Many problems, both in the Army and the Navy, albeit slowly - but partially Closed!

[okko077]

The problem is one- stupid leaders ... I'm talking about a non-nuclear component, and not even rockets, enough MLRS, read carefully .... BIS can use Glonas, or maybe not use ....

[Hunter 2]

Well .... that's strong! I am not Admiral (unfortunately ) and not the General. Believe me, there are PEOPLE !!! Several are not Politicians! And for the state - they are standing !!!
We - from the sofas, we see only the surface part of the iceberg, and to me - honestly in the last three years, it has become a little more comfortable to live! So do not worry too much, anyway - Everything will die! I hope that with dignity .... preferably in the circle of relatives and friends !!!

[okko077]

Dumb but loyal? Enough 1 time passed already ... And they destroyed the Union,
he saw all this shit in general uniform in Moscow at the All-Army Officer Assembly .... in 1988 ...

[Hunter 2]

In vain you are so! In 1988 - I was 12 years old, I can’t say anything worthwhile during this time!
But on the second Chechen - I was already big, and saw .... what yes How!
The army in Russia is a very complicated "organization", the Navy is generally a "mystery" !
There are People there, honest, strong - REAL!

[Piramidon]

Quote: Hunter 2

Vitaliy, we’ve already experienced the duck!

Besides the field tests, what happened? Therefore, in Syria to experience - that’s it.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Hunter 2

Our Army and Navy - also need such machines!

And to test (before taking into service), in real combat conditions, this technique is even more necessary.

[Kent0001]

Just against the calculations of the TOU and the hedgehog with them. The current he himself needs to "Curtain" to attach.

[Romario_Argo]

BMPT, it is necessary to understaff KOEP Shtora and KAZ Afganit

[svp67]

Quote: Rusland

If it is necessary, it is necessary to give, there is no better place for testing.

It was there that they already tested it in battle.

It was previously reported that this module can be installed on the T-72, T-62 and T-55 chassis. But it is necessary that the upgraded car received modern dynamic protection.

This is where to start. There are plenty of military equipment in Syria requiring major repairs, some of it can be turned into a “Terminator”, moreover, it can be done at our factories and offered these vehicles for sale ...
One must have time to “catch the moment” before others have done so.

[Piramidon]

Quote: svp67

It was there that they already tested it in battle.

A big request to post some test data of this machine in Syria

[svp67]

Quote: Piramidon

A big request to post some test data of this machine in Syria

Sory, but I don’t have a report on the results of this test, and if I did, I certainly wouldn’t show it. Here I can refer to this:

Tank Termination Tank Support Vehicle (BMPT) “Terminator” participated in battles in Syria, said Andrei Terlikov, general director and chief designer of the Ural Transport Engineering Design Bureau (Uraltransmash, part of UVZ), at a press conference.

"BMPT was tested in combat in Syria, there was no reason to transport it there to participate in parades, it participated in battles against the IS (terrorist organization, banned in Russia. - RBC)," Terlikov said (quoted by "RIA Novosti" )

According to him, the results obtained in the battles were “useful” for the Ministry of Defense. “These tests became the basis for the contract concluded at the Army 2017 forum,” Ternikov said.

And the stories of people who visited Syria. They indicate that the BMPT has been combat-tested, in the conditions of fighting in the city and in the open, where it has shown itself very well. They noted its "special usefulness" in the fight against "jihaiimobiles", when shooting on the upper floors, where ATGM calculations were often hidden and high maneuverability in limited conditions, due to the lack of a long barrel ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

They need such cars, especially now .. Stop thinking and looking back at the USA and Israel! It's time to put in full .. Otherwise, we are here ..

[Genry]

A grenade launcher in the rear of the module tower is not enough ....
And a new machine gun similar to the PKT but 9mm needed.

[Romka47]

Why a rocket launcher in the stern if there ATOM "ATTACK" is? and what's the point of 9mm?

[Genry]

Quote: Romka47

Why a rocket launcher in the stern if there ATOM "ATTACK" is?

Well, a grenade launcher, actually against infantry in lowlands ...

Quote: Romka47

and what's the point of 9mm?

7,62mm is already weak against modern bulletproof vests and you can’t shoot your head on the go. And 9mm will already be with double energy bullet, which is enough for any modern bronik.

[Romka47]

There are two AGSs against infantry in the lowlands, and I assure you that hitting 7,62 is guaranteed to lead a person in any armor out of battle, besides he has much better ballistics. Well, if someone comes up with 7,62, there are 2 cannons 2A42 with a caliber of 30 mm

[svp67]

Quote: Genry

And a new machine gun similar to the PKT but 9mm needed.

What is this for? The screwpatron is very powerful, and if you miss it, you can put 12,7 "Cliff" or "Cord" into the module.

[Genry]

Quote: svp67

The screwpatron is very powerful, and if you miss it, you can put 12,7 "Cliff" or "Cord" into the module.

7,62X54R energy 3000-4000 J
12,7 x 108 18000 J is too powerful for widespread use and the heavy weight of 130 g, which dramatically reduces ammunition.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Genry

7,62X54R energy 3000-4000 J

Four and a half thousand, however ..

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Four and a half thousand, however ..

Typical - 3500. Otherwise, the automation will go on strike.

[Mordvin 3]

Here, I'm sitting, looking: "Weapons of infantry." Written: 7,62x 54R. Muzzle energy - 4466 J.

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Here, I'm sitting, looking: "Weapons of infantry."

Link or details?

[Mordvin 3]

There is no link. Opus 92-th year, I was given for excellent shooting. V.I., Mukharovsky, S.L. Fedoseev. "Weaponry of the infantry." In my paper.

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

V.I., Mukharovsky, S.L. Fedoseev. "Infantry weapon"

I looked at the relatively modern 2010 edition of Melee Weapons by these authors.
http://mexalib.com/view/24905
There are no specific figures for the energy of the cartridge. But on page 556 there is a table of bullet weights and nach_speed. By the formula m * (V ^ 2) / 2, we obtain calculations less than 3500.

[Mordvin 3]

No, I have 92 year of release. There is a chapter "Ammunition". And there everything is written in joules.

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

No, I have the 92nd year. There is a chapter on “Ammunition”.

I don’t see your publication in the vast ... I don’t know in what context you have indicated such a too precise meaning. But an automatic weapon (not a simple rifle) cannot use cartridges with such a dispersion of energy. I am sure of the error in your book.

[svp67]

Quote: Genry

which dramatically reduces ammunition.

But for the solution of the fire task, a lower consumption of bp is required.

[Genry]

Quote: svp67

But for the solution of the fire task, a lower consumption of bp is required.

If you need to release a line to create a "cloud of bullets" (the basic principle of a machine gun) at least 5 rounds. But on the go, it's generally a sportloto.

[svp67]

Quote: Genry

But on the go, it's generally a sportloto.

Have you shot from a modern tank?

Quote: Genry

If you need to release a line to create a "cloud of bullets" (the basic principle of a machine gun) at least 5 rounds.

turn in two or three rounds ...

[Genry]

Quote: svp67

turn in two or three rounds ...

This is how you can shoot from a machine gun.
In the machine gun, the cartridges specifically have a dispersion in alignment, so with good barrel balancing (stability during shooting) you will have a random deflection of bullets and a queue less than 5 will be inferior.
That is why you need to clearly use the intended use of sniper and machine gun cartridges.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Genry

In the machine gun, the cartridges specifically have a dispersion in alignment, so with good barrel balancing (stability during shooting) you will have a random deflection of bullets and a queue less than 5 will be inferior.

Che did not understand a fig ...

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Che did not understand a fig ...

Machine-gun cartridge is made with artificial warp bullet.

[Mordvin 3]

Again I didn’t understand ... There, in my opinion, is ordinary lead, copper-plated .. Or am I again blunt?

[Genry]

Quote: Mordvin 3

There, in my opinion, is ordinary lead, copper-plated.

steel sheath (copper-plated or painted), with a central core and lead filling.

[svp67]

Quote: Genry

Machine-gun cartridge is made with artificial warp bullet.

They don’t do it, otherwise it doesn’t work out, for which they “twist” a bullet in flight in order to level it as much as possible.

[Genry]

Quote: svp67

"spin" a bullet in flight

Twisting compensates but does not eliminate ... And a defect in a bullet increases its derivation (like a swirling ball).

[svp67]

Quote: Genry

This is how you can shoot from a machine gun.

Well, actually, I shot from the tank. And quite successfully, since modern sights and weapon stabilizers make machine gun shooting almost fun ...

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: svp67

I shot from the tank. And quite successfully,

I envy ....
I’ve been dreaming since childhood ....

[svp67]

Quote: stalkerwalker

I’ve been dreaming since childhood ....

As I understand you ...

[113262a]

And I shot! First 83-85 GSVG, then at the place of residence, Lugansk. Have fun more interesting!

[113262a]

That’s how the tank shoots Tracer after two, then after three it charges! The line from the FCT resembles a jet, bullets fly almost one by one, In each exercise there is shooting at the 1200 line. Shooting in real conditions of Donbass is the same! No problem getting there! There is a problem to timely detect and identify the target! Nikosovy review scourge of tanks of the Soviet school!

[Chills]

Some deja vu. A year ago, about this was about and Klimkin squealed something in the next news.

[Aleks2048]

Maybe such cars are needed in Syria ... Who and how will pay for them? It may even really be possible to think not about the whole machine, but about the development of a combat module that could be put on a tank chassis by the forces of combat repair services ... True, there is much doubt about the possibility of the technical implementation of such a project. Well, the question of who will pay it is not removed from the agenda.

[Antidote]

It is known who. The same as the C300

[pomegranate]

I don’t know guys.

[Dezinto]

Syria needs something to be left behind by a pack of jackals led by the United States. !

[pomegranate]

money jelly for refurbishment
72 yki for another 5 generations in front of done.

[pomegranate]

What just did not see from technical machines to air defense

[pomegranate]

But the base is ONE !!!!
Ariatu waiting
God give it.

[Tarasve]

The Syrians began to think about protecting their soldiers. The carts did not suit the military, no one wanted to die. And they did not have money for the latest (expensive) equipment. So, you can probably make a simplified version for poor countries. The more heavy vehicles (tanks) bandits have few, then anti-tank grenade launchers have nothing to do with them. It is better to increase ammunition for machine guns and cannons.

[Romka47]

I agree with you, it is a good idea to replace the ATGM with an additional BC. It’s just that if in the foreseeable future they still have to meet with ABRASHKI and LEOPERD, and this is not at all possible.

[Thunderbolt]

What only the Syrian army does not need! There, in addition to the Terminators, the list is huge, there is no defense industry of its own, except for the repair factories of U Hasan.

[da Vinci]

Why not put the CEP "Curtain"? It seems that there is a place?
But if there was any system that would monitor the launch of the ATGM, the “T-1000 Terminator” would turn out!

[family tree]

Well, damn it, no! Alex TV is back in its native reservation, but I hate me with a broken ridge! They restored what your mother was in the neighborhood, and along the transverseness of your dear mother, for gentle !!!

[Dead duck]

The main thing is that the combat module with two 2A42 automatic small-caliber guns remains unchanged

for whom is the main thing?! ...
and if you replace the 57-mm automatic + a couple of 12.7-mm machine guns will not be kosher?

[Mordvin 3]

Genry,
That's ... yes, there is a whole table. Start: 5,45 PSM cartridge initial speed - 315 m, s. Muzzle energy - 129 joules. And so on. There it is written dohrena cartridges, even Tula Tokarev is.

[slavaseven]

a good machine for certain tasks in certain circumstances. That's just her ammunition is not small?

[Zomanus]

Well, in general, right. To develop a module that would stand on the shoulder straps of old tanks.
Missiles nafig, add ammunition and protection.
And such a module wouldn’t hurt us,
for we have enough old tanks.

[Rey_ka]

Have marketers completely lost their senses? make the plant at your own expense 3-5 pieces and even an experienced crew for such a number without problems. but what an advertisement! And to make an express option so that in the field to upgrade the type from the old tank, we remove the tower, put a new body kit, hang it and go!