The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine is preparing for the "Serdyukovsky" option?

Ukraine continues to discuss opportunities for the so-called European integration. The discussion follows the list of requirements put forward by European and Euro-Atlantic partners. One of these requirements is linked to the approach to NATO standards and suggests the emergence of a “civilian” defense minister who would be freed from the command of the armed forces and would deal exclusively with financial matters in the department.

The introduction of the post of minister who is not directly responsible for the combat readiness (tactics and strategy) of the army and fleet, contributes to the adoption in the first reading by people's deputies of the Verkhovna Rada of the law "On National Security of Ukraine".

This law also says that since 2021, the posts of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be separated.

And in Ukraine, some authorities are ready to convince the “electorate” that such innovations will bring the country closer to joining NATO.

In most of the states that are part of NATO, the post of Minister of Defense has not a military, but a financial and administrative basis. However, not all.

At one time, Russia, as is well known, also tried to practice this kind of approach to the formation of the top of the main defense department.

In the end, everything turned into a corruption (and not only) scandal. Although the financial bases of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation under A.Serdyukov remain largely unchanged.

Comments

[Russia]

They will have better than the Unas, one Prosecutor General Lutsenko, who has served time, which is only worth it.
Already at the start we will be overtaken

[vorobey]

Quote: Rusland

Although the financial foundations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation laid down under A. Serdyukov remain largely unchanged.

but I don’t understand the last phrase ... quote .. Although the financial foundations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation laid down by A. Serdyukov remain largely unchanged.

Did the author praise Serdyukov or did he defraud Shoigu?

dear comrades hohloskoki ... the civil minister is garbage ... the process of admission to NATO is faster if, apart from drunks, transgender people and pederasts are in the same line ... that's who will move you to NATO ...

[Logall]

Quote: vorobey

transgender people and pederasts are in the same line ... that's who will move you to NATO ...

Push through the back, back door ...

[vorobey]

Quote: Logall

Push through the back, back door ...

these are the details ..

[Civilian]

stand ........................ that's who will move you to NATO ...

Alexander! Phi! As you are not tolerantly expressing yourself ... (I'm afraid to quote, the current "time has expired")

[vorobey]

Quote: Civilian

As you do not tolerate

everything within ... on the verge but within ..

Pederasty (Greek: παιδεραστία; from παῖς, gen.sing. Παιδός - “child”, “boy”, and ἐραστής - “loving”, that is, “love for boys”) - in the cultural-historical context: institutionalized form love or sexual relations between an adult man and a boy, in which, in addition to the sexual aspect, a pedagogical and social aspect also played a role.

At the initial stage of the development of sexology, the term “pederasty” denoted male homosexuality in general, but then they refused to use this term in science. In colloquial language, this term is still used to refer to male homosexuality [1] [2] [3].

[Civilian]

How brave you are, Alexander! I no longer play these games with the site.

[vorobey]

Quote: Civilian

I no longer play these games with the site.

for brute force and it falls to me ... and Smirnov and Banshees are merciless here ..

[Civilian]

and Smirnov and Banshees are merciless here

Ohhh! So for sure, he is the most. Mistakenly believed that the robot was moderating, but no, here they’ll cross out with an eraser, manually
He was grabbed by the scruff of the neck and accompanied by a pendal in the recreation area

[Hunter 2]

Why along the Serdyukovsky way ??! I suggest - "give" Serdyukov to them, at all! Let - Himself leads them!
Vasiliev - too! Will they sing songs!

[Hunter 2]

Banshee is a rare villain! Herald of death - in IN! Save Me - from the Evil One!
I repent

[Elizar Zadunaysky]

which just do not come up with their justification homosexuals-already and educational work dragged

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: vorobey

in which, in addition to the sexual aspect, a certain role was also played by the pedagogical and social aspect.

I’m embarrassed to ask ... Did you have ... a teacher ... with this ... with the social aspect?

[Irokez]

Quote: vorobey

Did the author praise Serdyukov or did he defraud Shoigu?

That is in vain ironic. Serdyukov is a type of Moor who has done his job and gone.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Irokez

Quote: vorobey

Did the author praise Serdyukov or did he defraud Shoigu?

That is in vain ironic. Serdyukov is a type of Moor who has done his job and gone.

Maybe until the Moor has completely left, to catch him with his heifers, and send a registered parcel to Kiev? He will do their business there, even Ukrainians startled.

[Lelek]

Quote: vorobey

NATO is faster if, in addition to drunks, transgender people and pederasts are in the same ranks.

All-Ukrainian Lyashka mean? And what, I support, in there will be an army.

[Finches]

To simplify the form, the Army General Shoigu, with all due respect, Serdyukov is a jacket dressed in uniform, but who, most likely, always wanted to become a commander, unlike Taburetkin, who had dreamed of becoming a furniture maker all his life ... In the modern world, the Minister of Defense should be a politician than a military man to a greater extent, and this is more than complete for the NATO countries, consisting of dwarfs and slaves of the USA, this is normal, but for the Great State - Russia, this is unacceptable, historically! Ukraine is a big top, so here any experiments are permissible! They can even invite Conchita Wurst as their minister — it will even be profitable, the IMF will give money under it., Emphasizing its tolerance than under some kind of renegade Muzhenko or geographer from the god Poltorak ..

[vorobey]

Quote: Finches

Army General Shoigu, with all my sincere respect, the same Serdyukov - a jacket dressed in uniform, but who, most likely, always wanted to become a commander, unlike Taburetkin

Eugene dare to notice the soldiers are not born ...

[Finches]

I agree! But nobody canceled the caste ... Or since 18 years old in boots and a barracks, or with my mother under a skirt at the institute ... It's rude, but true! They will always remember and know about this!

[vorobey]

Quote: Finches

Or from the age of 18 in boots and a barracks, or with mom under a skirt at the institute ..

Grachev and Shoigu ... do you feel the difference?

[Finches]

Grachev had a different time .... Change their places, Shoigu and Grachev, I think nothing has changed, but in the early 90s the army believed Grachev - therefore, despite his ass, he still took Grozny by conscripts and drove him into the mountains highly paid professionals with advisers from NATO, but again, all were sold to politicians - including Grachev as well! Further, he just played it ..., but that's another story!

[vorobey]

Quote: Finches

Grachev had a different time .... Change their places, Shoigu and Grachev, I think nothing has changed, but in the early 90s the army believed Grachev - therefore, despite his ass, he still took Grozny by conscripts and drove him into the mountains highly paid professionals with advisers from NATO, but again, all were sold to politicians - including Grachev as well! Further, he just played it ..., but that's another story!

I don’t want to argue ... I think if maybe it should ..

[Finches]

And do not argue! The Supreme appointed - it means so!

[NN52]

Let’s see how the military personnel (starting from the Suvorov military school), takes over the position of the Moscow Region ... In May of this year ...

[Finches]

Suvorovites in the army are not particularly respected - if you do not know ... Only by their actions in the period of further service gain their respect ... If they gain!

[NN52]

What did you mean? For the first time I hear ... We once had a few on the course, normal guys. Without bends, like many of us cadets ...
Well, Gerasimov, let's see how he will ... steer the MO ..

[AlexVas44]

Quote: Finches

Suvorovites in the army are not particularly respected - if you do not know.

Is this a feeling of envy or hatred? People (individuals) may be different, but there is a general opinion. Obviously not yours!

[Lelek]

Quote: Finches

And do not argue! The Supreme appointed - so it should be

It is true, Eugene, to each his own and his rights and duties. And if only the people are talking about who is worthy and who to drive away, then this is no longer a state, but Makhnovism in a "wild field".

[Finches]

A lion! All the same, we now have a more state than in the 90s or 85th, but less than ... in the 52nd or 82nd ... This must be understood and even appreciated!

[Lelek]

Quote: Finches

Finches

In the last century there was no time (for me personally) to figure out whether our state is right or not. At 17 years old - in the army + 33 years of service, of which about 3 years at home and on vacation, the rest are business trips to the Union and former "brothers in arms". Well, now it only remains to shake your head and correspond with you on VO.

[sergey32]

I remembered the joke.
Two lieutenants are walking around the city, one cadre after school, the other a two-year-old jacket. Towards immodest girl, it seems with low social responsibility.
The jacket offers "Can you .. (we will have sexual intercourse, as amended by the Fed. Law)?"
Personnel carefully looked at her like "Yes, it seems, there is nothing for it."

[Finches]

Everything, absolutely. right!

[Lelek]

Quote: sergey32

I remembered the joke.

But what about the other option?
The lieutenant leads along Nevsky the old general, whose legs are constantly giving way.
- Lieutenant: "And this, Mr. General, Kazan Cathedral."
-General: "But how - I remember, Lieutenant, I remember ..."
-The lieutenant points to two proforsetki: "And this, Mr. General, our St. Petersburg ... (limited liability)"
-General: "But how can I remember, I’ll go to time ... And what, lieutenant, are still being fucked up?"

[New Year day]

Ukraine already had civilian defense ministers — Yekhanurov and Lebedev. The latter is a very successful businessman in Russia, crushed Sevastopol for himself

[Major Yurik]

Give them a tolyan, right in this stroyotryadovskim jacket, and you will forget about the "most powerful army of Europe" forever!

[Russia]

It’s impossible, he’s too “effective” manager, worth its weight in gold

[viktor.]

They’ll deliver Tolik’s bread in their house such as Tolik.

[vorobey]

Quote: viktor.

They’ll deliver Tolik’s bread in their house such as Tolik.

this is true ... you won’t look at Klitschko without tears ... or rather, you won’t listen and this is not the best individual, judging by the position ...

[Civilian]

I would also put denyuzhok on the track. VIP coupe on a VIP steam train, with the condition - a one-way ticket, not a refundable rate. This is strict.

[Hariton laptev]

Yeah, then Ukrainians fat like Skripal grass and again stink the whole world will be. Better sit here.

[Ingvar0401]

When Serdyukov arrived at the BF headquarters for a meeting, he had to half-color the windows in white so that he would not see the furniture store opposite.

[vorobey]

Quote: Ingvar0401

When Serdyukov arrived at the BF headquarters for a meeting, he had to half-color the windows in white so that he would not see the furniture store opposite.

In vain ... it was necessary to hang his portrait on the window ... exactly above the sign of the store ..

[Russia]

And the collar: "Closed. Left for the base in St. Petersburg"

[Civilian]

Quote: Ingvar0401

When Serdyukov arrived at the BF headquarters for a meeting, he had to half-color the windows in white so that he would not see the furniture store opposite.

there was no such thing! Labaz called "interior designer"

[Civilian]

Question to the "experts." And what, now "urgent", though glasses do not tear?

[vorobey]

Quote: Civilian

Question to the "experts." And what, now "urgent", though glasses do not tear?

no .. only contract soldiers ... this is prescribed as a separate paragraph ...

[Civilian]

Yes, I seriously ask))
without glasses, how to keep discipline?

[vorobey]

Quote: Civilian

Yes, I seriously ask))
without glasses, how to keep discipline?

and in the field, imagine that .. a train of servants to drag in the field?

[Civilian]

Quote: vorobey

to carry carts of servants to the fields?

So this is the question. I read once, in places of constant deployment, the Serdyukov scheme still somehow works. But it’s worth moving to the field, all at once ashes - the cooks do not go, civilian mechanics of the armored vehicles are on strike, they require travel and prize money, well, etc .. Is it?

[Wilderness]

In fact, the current Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are just the brainchild of Serdyukov, if instead of him there was another general who knows some troops (as before), then now they would have had a repainted fragment of the Soviet military machine. The army of the USSR was certainly powerful, but in the absence of the Soviet economy, industry, legislation and people - this is just a mechanism without key details and assemblies (it seems to be, but is inefficient).
Talk about reform has been going on since the late 80s, but it all ended only with renaming, shuffling, dressing up and “optimizing.” There was a lot of money and people, but there was no one to fight. Serdyukov did the same as in the old days did with the Streltsy army - he broke everything to the ground, making it possible to assemble an already more or less modern structure.
Ukraine seems to be about to follow the same path.

[LUCKY777]

Listen to you, so he and Gorbachev need to put a monument in each city in the central squares.

[Wilderness]

The monument is not needed, but he did his work, Shoigu came to an already cleared meadow. It is clear that those who do painful and less popular procedures are not liked, but their services are still in demand.

[LUCKY777]

but their services are still in demand.

And judging by the number of pebbles of this rat, Vasily, they bring a good profit. And so yes, it’s what talent you need to have, so reform. Only now, not only the generals escaped, but also the surgeons and others who could not be returned back. About the hospital, which he almost reformed to zero to remind?

[Wilderness]

Well, do you want a person controlling such a lot of money to live in a hostel and eat food packages? The army from the time of the USSR had a dofiga of non-core assets that enriched the Arbat assets (Vasiliev against them generally innocence itself), the task was to quickly dump them. Perhaps this is precisely what gave the funds for rearmament. Regarding the hospital: it was then that the IHC was going to the hospital, I remember when suddenly everyone began to remind me intensely so that they would not forget about their retirement, they would go for medical examinations, and if anything, they should only be treated for them))) they would run away even faster.

[LUCKY777]

in case of war they would have escaped even faster.

In case of war there is a very motivating wartime law. I don’t want to enter into a polemic with you, but they don’t put things in a mess.

[Civilian]

the current Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are just the brainchild of Serdyukov,

We put it before Prince Menshikov, Alexander Danilovich, to him like stars. And his old age. Most likely he will not meet in Berezovo.

[Wilderness]

Alas, such people are not born in our time.

[zoolu350]

And you told the truth. After Serdyukov’s reforms, the Russian army is able to wage war either against the Barmalei communities, or against individual countries, the level of Georgia, Mongolia and Ukraine. The army of the Russian Federation is not capable of conducting operations against large military groups of NATO and especially PLA.

[Civilian]

Quote: zoolu350

And you said ......... To conduct operations against large military groups of NATO and especially the PLA, the Russian army is not capable.

Petr, I sat here "dukhar" half a day, but you still managed to spoil my mood.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: zoolu350

And you told the truth. After Serdyukov’s reforms, the Russian army is able to wage war either against the Barmalei communities, or against individual countries, the level of Georgia, Mongolia and Ukraine. The army of the Russian Federation is not capable of conducting operations against large military groups of NATO and especially PLA.

Before Serdyukov, the Russian army could not fight against large military groups in the same way. No, according to the documents everything was in openwork - 5 combat-ready divisions, air regiments, fleets and flotillas ...
And when it came to the matter, it turned out that one of the combat-ready divisions in the time required for the division’s release could be set up only by the reinforced battalion from the regiment, the other arrived in the combat zone using equipment from the time of the beginning of the Afghan war. Tactics are forgotten, neglected: intelligence in the rear guards the tunnel, but BTG without intelligence and security flies into a Georgian ambush. Aviation is thrown into the zone of unsuppressed air defense. Su-25 half of the losses are from their own. And that’s all - in the course of an operation to help peacekeepers, pre-planned and tested in exercises.
When the joy of the won war subsided, the opened picture did not please even more. In fact, paper divisions turned out to be warehouses of military equipment, which would require months to re-preserve and equip them. The air regiments that looked menacingly on paper could actually take no more than a squadron into the air (for example, following the disbandment of 8 squadrons from its two full-time military squadrons and another “stray” military squadron, only one air regiment could be assembled). And from the fleets and brigades, in the best case, there were divisions, and in the worst, sludge ships.
Officers at the battalion level and lower by 9/10 are staffed by "two-gadyushniki" and Wrid sergeants, but about 10 lieutenants were graduated every year ... graduated - and dissolved somewhere. And with all this incompleteness, the army had 000 officers, of whom 300 were colonels and lieutenant colonels. All staff posts were occupied - including those whose subordinates either fell sharply or even disappeared. But there were so many privates that platoons of 000-60 people were the norm.
In short, white army, black baron In his best:

"Arriving in the troops, I found 256 bayonets, 28 guns and with them 2 division headquarters and 1 corps headquarters, fully staffed!"

© (A.Ya.Slashchev, telegram bar. Wrangel - 1920, June, five months before the evacuation of the remnants of white troops from the Crimea to Constantinople).
Only one thing could be said about the supply of equipment: 65 new tanks per year. If necessary, urgent replacement of 2000 cars. New planes and helicopters were supplied in units. New ships ... the same Black Sea Fleet turned into a floating museum, in which the combat service was carried out by ships that were considered obsolete back in Soviet times.

[strannik1985]

Good intentions, but results ...
A post-reform army (as it was conceived) cannot compensate for losses in a local conflict like the Second Chechen, only short blitz like 08.08.08. A lot of good intentions, a lot of really important and necessary steps, but they did no less stupid things.

[zoolu350]

That is, the oligarchy of the Russian Federation stupidly changed the awl for soap and set up a kindergarten with conscripts, along with billions being stolen. Well, the problems you indicated have not gone away. "The beauty"! Someone needs to be shot to raise tone and social justice.

[strannik1985]

That is, they tried to solve the problem, though not always correctly. Other issues were resolved just fine, for example, the order of military-technical equipment of "export" modifications, the modernization of the T-72, and the increase in military personnel.

[viktor.]

Quote: Wilderness

Ukraine seems to be about to follow the same path.

Break but not assemble

[Wilderness]

Yes, I also hope that they lose some details)))

[Civilian]

Break but not assemble

There are helpers, unfortunately.

[Finches]

NN52,
I have been serving in the Army from the immediate term - military service, military school, army in command positions ... 25 years already! I think I know what I'm writing here!

[NN52]

Eugene

Yes, actually, since I was 17 years old in the army, military flight ... I also looked enough in life .. And even more so, when I write something here, I am responsible for it //
I don’t know why you did not respect the Suvorovites .. We all were equal ..

[Finches]

Lelek,
A lion! We ourselves have chosen this path and it’s hardly possible and necessary to blame anyone, if that! But to root for what was best possible is worth it, but not destroying what was created, but protecting, this is the essence of the Oath!

[Metallurg_2]

Here they’ll take our Serdyukov to their place.

[bone1]

How not to integrate, and Ukrainians will remain.

[mavrus]

Quote: Finches

Grachev had a different time .... Change their places, Shoigu and Grachev, I think nothing has changed, but in the early 90s the army believed Grachev - therefore, despite his ass, he still took Grozny by conscripts and drove him into the mountains highly paid professionals with advisers from NATO, but again, all were sold to politicians - including Grachev as well! Further, he just played it ..., but that's another story!

Did the army believe Grachev? Yes, the army then, in general, did not believe in anyone and in anything, not even in itself. There were generals, and they even lived very well, according to the state there were also soldiers. But the army, as such, simply did not exist.

[UAZ 452]

Serdyukov was far from the worst Minister of Defense. Under him, for the first time, they really began to provide military housing, raised monetary allowance. Someone may say that he was lucky to lead the Moscow Region in the "fat" years, but I suggest recalling that monetary allowances should have been indexed annually since 2013 on inflation, but until 2018 (elections, however), they never did and 2013 and 2014 (at the beginning of the year) were by no means crisis. Just the new leadership of the Moscow Region did not consider the issue of remuneration of the military a priority, and was not going to defend indexation before the Ministry of Finance and the country's leadership.
Corruption? Yeah, 2 km of the road were laid at state expense to the brother-in-law. The only thing that was installed in 6 years. It was possible to dig more on any commander in Soviet and especially in post-Soviet times without straining.
Shortened cropped parts? This decision has matured and overripe. I had to see what was stored on these countless BHVT. This has long been not property, but a maximum of recyclables.
And why was Serdyukov so bad? And what is now radically improved in the sun in comparison with the cursed times of "Serdyukovism"?

[Foxsvl]

Somewhere they had a moldy with a scythe lying around. How is it, I forgot already. Scythe bagel.