Military Review

When prohibition is equivalent to treatment

47
Denial of well-known historical facts and building on this basis an alternative reality based on aggressive ignorance requires an adequate legal response.




Until today, the author of these lines, as a person democratically minded, was a categorical opponent of any formal prohibitions on the discussion of any historical themes and the generally accepted postulates associated with them. It seemed to me an absolutely vicious practice of legislatively banning Holocaust denial and prison sentences provided for such statements in a number of seemingly civilized countries.

Moreover, the trend of imposing such bans began to spread recently with the speed of the epidemic. In Ukraine, for a long time, the criminal article has long smelled like any doubts about the so-called ethnic Ukrainian famine, which is in no way supported by the data of objective science. In Poland, it was recently decided that they will imprison any mention of the responsibility of the Poles for participating in the mass extermination of Jews.

And even in the Russian Federation, proposals to ban, for example, statements and actions that insult public morality, or to punish for denying the victory of the Soviet Union in the Great Patriotic War, are becoming increasingly popular.

I repeat, until today, all this seemed extremely ridiculous to me, because in this there was an attempt on the basis of the foundations of human freedom - the right to have one’s own opinion and express it publicly. So from today, your humble servant, does not think so. Or think, but with very substantial reservations.

The fact is that the day before on the Internet my material was published, in which it was a question of one long-forgotten episode in the history of the Second World War. Namely, the events in the western Ukrainian (previously Polish) city of Kremenets, Ternopil region in August 1942. The local, mostly Jewish population was driven by SS men and Ukrainian policemen into the so-called ghetto, where it was expected to be completely destroyed. But something else happened. The ghetto prisoners rebelled and for two days resisted their killers. Of course, they were doomed. The uprising was crushed, and all local Jews, numbering several thousand people (accurate data not available), were shot.

Moreover, it was not the Germans themselves who destroyed the people, but their local minions from the so-called police battalions. From the methods of the “work” of these butchers, even some SS men became ill — such facts were officially recorded by the Nazis themselves.

The meaning of my appeal to this topic was to draw general attention to the fact that today exactly the same Nazis and xenophobes, professing the exact same mania of the “titular nation” and fiercely hating people of other nationalities, came to power in Ukraine. That is why we should not forget about the horrors that accompanied their previous coming to power. And to remind them of the current generations in all possible ways, including the creation of films on this topic.

When the article was published, comments from readers naturally followed. From some part of which the hair on my head, figuratively speaking, stood on end. Of course, I was ready to admit that not everyone will be aware of these events. Since the author of these lines, a graduate of the Soviet Faculty of History, did not know anything about this uprising before.

But what I read in the comments was not about banal ignorance. And to a kind of manifestation of “alternative knowledge” of history, within the framework of which there is generally no place for any real historical facts, nor even their most commonly accepted interpretations. And to put it more precisely, there is no place there either for the world-famous and equally world-convicted Nazi crimes of the Second World War, or, accordingly, for the world-historic significance of our victory over this plague of the twentieth century. For what is worth the victory, if, according to these commentators, the Nazis were quite a harmless people. And all the bad that they say about them, just bullshit. Specifically, these comments are about the period of the Nazi occupation of my hometown, Odessa. (Published without editing, the mistakes of the authors saved. - Ed.)

Dad
It turns out that thousands of Jews were shot in Odessa, as described by a Jewish scholar from the United States. Not only are there no burials, it is also described colorfully as it turns out that thousands were driving them past our house, where my grandfather and grandmother lived and did not see anything! Moreover, the exact place is indicated, Dalnik, where thousands of Jews were burned in barns. And there were no wooden sheds in this area, no burials, and the locals never heard anything! Moreover, the Jewish population of Odessa has not diminished during the occupation period - watch the film "Liquidation", and this is 1955 year.! Where the Jews are, there is a lie.

Galina Deli
And it is true that in our area the sheds were never wooden. "writer" pierced on such seemingly trifles. Jews in Odessa suffered? This is from the realm of fantasy, because they ruled Odessa and built its internal policy.

Enough! If you quote this nonsense further, you can simply lose your mind. Just think about it! One alternatively thinker casually explains, with reference to his grandmother (!), That there was simply no mass extermination of Jews under the Nazi invaders in Odessa. And in other places, for example, in the same Kremenets, apparently, everything was okay too. The second similar creature agreed to the point that in the same Odessa, under the Nazis, the Jews ran everything and even “built up internal politics”.

Of course, the easiest way out is just not to pay any attention to idiots. But there are already thousands of them today, and tomorrow, it is quite possible that there will be millions. Just ignore such a mass is unlikely to succeed.

As an inhabitant of Odessa, it is especially hard for me to read. If only because I myself had the occasion to listen to the stories of many contemporaries who survived to our day of those terrible events, the victims of which were tens of thousands of not only Jews but also captured Red Army soldiers, Soviet and party workers, and in general everyone who looked askance at the invaders.

As a person not alien to history, I also know that the occupiers did not at all make a special secret of their atrocities. So, for example, after the explosion by the underground workers of the German-Romanian headquarters on Marazlievskaya Street, they quite officially announced that for every dead soldier Bolsheviks would be shot at 100, and for 200 for an officer. In fact, they killed not only and not so much the Bolsheviks, as all those who came by the arm. And in quantities far exceeding the official "limits".

When prohibition is equivalent to treatment


In the end, in Odessa there is a memorial center of the Holocaust, where thousands of eyewitnesses are collected. Moreover, not only Jewish nationality. In one of the city parks, there is even an Alley of the "righteous of the world", each tree on which is planted in honor of a person or a family who saved one of the prisoners of fascist bondage. So who did all these people save, if, as we are told now, the fascists did not kill anyone, and the population of Odessa almost prospered with them?


City of former homes. Odessa, 1944 year. Immediately after release. Lifeless Martian Landscape

The problem, however, lies in the fact that "alternatively thinking" individuals, such as those cited above, have similar arguments to the bulb. For all these arguments and facts begin to work only in combination with a certain level of general education and civic consciousness of the “recipients”. Meanwhile, both of them, to date, leave a lot to be desired. And the trends, alas, are not encouraging.

The tumultuous official activity to consolidate the “spiritual braces” of our historical self-consciousness, as before, boils down mainly to ceremonial-output events in which the “alternatively thinking” see, perhaps, a hindrance to road traffic. At the same time, the unobtrusive, but quite successful introduction into the public consciousness of the most primitive physiological "values" of the Western anti-world, leads to the devaluation of our traditional value priorities, the distortion of ideas about the surrounding reality and world history.

Today, in the course of this transformation, an intermediate goal has already been achieved - on “practically equal responsibility of Germany and the USSR for the Second World War”. Although, in fact, it is a complete and easily refuted fiction. But, again, refuted by facts and knowledge. To which, today, very many do not care. And tomorrow, it’s not an hour, “it turns out” that Hitler’s Third Reich became a victim of insidious Stalin, and all Nazi atrocities - “an invention of Soviet propaganda propaganda”.

But why tomorrow? Judging by the above comments, the process is already in full swing. And more and more individuals appear that are harmlessly reminded of previously completely obvious things.



That is why today I have no previous confidence that the official ban on public propaganda of terry idiocy, including in the form of denial of the well-known and legally executed crimes of Hitler's Nazism and his bloody henchmen from the same Ukrainian Galicia, is so bad.

For that part of society, which is at a certain stage of mental and moral degradation and which, by virtue of this circumstance, becomes immune to the arguments of reason, this legal way of healing its ailments is very much shown. For, if not the mind, then at least an elementary fear would stop this category of citizens who truly do not know what they are doing. The whip of the law is much more understandable and intelligible than an appeal to the mind, which many practically do not have. And in this statement there is nothing offensive. As in the fact that in medicine, each disease is prescribed its own method of treatment. The degree of radicalism is directly dependent on the degree of neglect of this disease.
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  1. Mac Simka
    Mac Simka April 2 2018 15: 37
    0
    Where do I ask, where are the indignant citizens and consumers of HE? Why does no one vilify Ukraine or Ukrainians? Or do not resent that Nazism is being promoted, etc. And where are thousands of indignant posts about that - betrayed, sold, forgotten, ungrateful ect.
    Maybe because the article is not about Bulgaria, no?
    1. credo
      credo April 2 2018 16: 18
      +2
      Quote: Mac Simka
      Where do I ask, where are the indignant citizens and consumers of HE? Why does no one vilify Ukraine or Ukrainians? Or do not resent that Nazism is being promoted, etc. And where are thousands of indignant posts about that - betrayed, sold, forgotten, ungrateful ect.
      Maybe because the article is not about Bulgaria, no?

      Or maybe you just do not read Russian well and are looking for only the familiar word "Bulgaria" in any text. In fact, in the Russian media space there is a lot of material about the negative side of the so-called "perestroika" and the collapse of the USSR and CMEA that followed, and together with these collapses appeared as after rain rotten degenerates of all stripes and nationalities, including in Russia, Ukraine and Bulgaria.
      1. Mac Simka
        Mac Simka April 2 2018 18: 24
        0
        Actually, my post is sarcasm. Because any news about Bulgaria causes a flurry of hatred. Of course there are many adequate people, but their posts, like any post of Bulgarians, are drowning in the informational ..... let's say hateful. And the number of posts is in the hundreds. I just wanted to note that there is a certain policy when, in the wake of the restoration of the pride of the Russians of their country, it is very strange to see a splash of condemnation of Bulgaria and outright lies about it. But here is no place to discuss this.
        1. andj61
          andj61 April 2 2018 21: 54
          +2
          Quote: Mac Simka
          Actually, my post is sarcasm. Because any news about Bulgaria causes a flurry of hatred. Of course there are many adequate people, but their posts, like any post of Bulgarians, are drowning in the informational ..... let's say hateful. And the number of posts is in the hundreds. I just wanted to note that there is a certain policy when, in the wake of the restoration of the pride of the Russians of their country, it is very strange to see a splash of condemnation of Bulgaria and outright lies about it. But here is no place to discuss this.

          Sorry for the offtopic, but I will answer. Moreover, my grandfather participated in the liberation campaign in Bulgaria during the war, and after the war with his family, including my mother, he lived and served in Bulgaria, transferring to the Bulgarian officers his considerable experience as an artilleryman.
          In Russia they always believed - and they do! - Bulgarians by their own, practically relatives. And a hundred times more painful to realize that Bulgaria very often because of its rulers is at the forefront of confrontation with Russia. The Anglo-Saxons did much more nasty things to us, but the Russians did not expect anything good from them. Bulgarians are a completely different matter. It hurts when relatives side with the enemy! hi
          1. Mac Simka
            Mac Simka April 2 2018 23: 34
            +2
            Glad to read this. Any confrontation is unproductive in principle.
    2. BAI
      BAI April 2 2018 16: 22
      0
      Everything has its place. This is on other branches, for example here "Gangster reports of Ukraine. ATO fighters attack ... the French!"
      article is not about Bulgaria

      And why such a need to write about Bulgaria? In the end, this is far from the center of world events.
      1. Mac Simka
        Mac Simka April 2 2018 18: 26
        +1
        Yes, there is no such need. It was simply amazed that no one attacked zealously on the expression of Nazism in Ukraine. But in other branches the Sabbath is still the same.
        1. Prosha
          Prosha April 2 2018 20: 39
          0
          Ivan, they didn’t pounce, rather because it was already a bit boring, and good news from the same Ukraine is perceived much more emotionally than bad. This is certainly bad, because you always need to shout about any manifestation of an abomination, no matter what country or situation it affects!
          1. Mac Simka
            Mac Simka April 2 2018 20: 56
            0
            It is not regrettable to notice that you are right.
    3. antivirus
      antivirus April 2 2018 17: 03
      0
      not the center of the universe - and all tuta.
      there are other enemies or friends allies
  2. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem April 2 2018 15: 47
    +3
    First you need to stop giving money to the cinema to every Bondarchuk, etc. For the last decades, a really good film about the Great Patriotic War has not been made.
    There were a couple of films, but they are lost in the general mass of dullness.
    And the Soviet cinema does not particularly look at young people.
    In general, one gets the impression that the Ministry of Culture is not doing what it should at all, sometimes you even think that working there is not at all for the good of the Motherland.
    1. pacific
      pacific April 2 2018 16: 16
      +1
      Yes, God bless them - with the filming of new films about the war.
      Now, old war films are rarely shown.
      I don’t remember when I was shown on TV "The Fate of a Man" or "Father of a Soldier"
    2. credo
      credo April 2 2018 16: 40
      +1
      [quote = Razvedka_Boem] First you need to stop giving money to the cinema to all the Bondarchuk, etc. For the last decades, a really good film about the Great Patriotic War has not been made.
      There were a couple of films, but they are lost in the general mass of dullness.
      And the Soviet cinema does not particularly look at young people.
      In general, it seems that the Ministry of Culture is not doing what it should at all, sometimes you even think that working there is not at all for the good of the Motherland. [/ Quote
      A good, interesting and truthful movie is certainly beautiful and even wonderful, but everyday life determines consciousness, and smart scum from different countries use it and the population is hammered exactly what they need. Therefore, such puppet authorities as the Baltic republics, Ukraine, Georgia or Poland now declare that their states have existed for not a single millennium and would have long become completely prosperous and prosperous if they had not been enslaved by hated Russia. So no matter what good films were made in the USSR at one time about the history of the current "independent" republics of the USSR and Eastern Europe, they are unlikely to be able to kill the negative that pours on the heads of ordinary citizens of these countries.
      As for Russian cinema, there has long been seen a complete absence of a general line in art - most films are single-use and without perfect meaning, to fill in airtime and with minimal tasks for educating the younger generation.
  3. turbris
    turbris April 2 2018 16: 01
    +7
    When my cousin, with whom we grew up in Odessa, suddenly started talking about the fact that during the occupation, people lived in Odessa perfectly and the occupants didn’t kill anyone - I realized the terrible power of propaganda. Then, in Soviet times, there was a museum of defense of Odessa, we were taken there in classes and everything was clearly shown there, how heroically they fought to defend the city and what the invaders did after taking it. Where is it all now and where are the brains of the inhabitants of Odessa, especially after May 2 - they calmly spend Yumorin - this is not the inhabitants of Odessa, but the come-together racers.
  4. Deck
    Deck April 2 2018 16: 02
    +1
    As a person not alien to history, I also know that the invaders did not at all make a special secret from their atrocities. So, for example, after an explosion by underground members of the German-Romanian headquarters on Marazlievskaya Street, they officially announced that 100 Bolsheviks would be shot for each soldier killed, and 200 for the officer. In fact, not only the Bolsheviks were killed, but how many all who fell under the arm. And in quantities far exceeding the official "limits"


    I don’t understand why you don’t like taking hostages and shooting them?

    ORDER
    All-Russian Central Executive Committee Plenipotentiary Commission No. 116

    Tambov

    23th of June 1921

    The experience of the first combat site shows great suitability for quickly cleansing known areas of banditry using the following cleaning method. Particularly gangster-minded volosts are planned and representatives of the county political commission, special department, military tribunal and command departments, along with units intended for the purge, leave there.

    Upon arrival at the place, the volost is cordoned off, 60-100 of the most prominent persons are taken as hostages and a state of siege is introduced. Departure and entry into the volost should be prohibited during the operation. After this, a complete volost gathering is gathered, on which the orders of the Plenipotentiary Commission of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee No. 130 and 171 and the written verdict for this volost are read. Residents are given 2 hours to extradite bandits and weapons, as well as gangster families, and the population is informed that if the information is refused, the hostages will be shot two hours later. If the population of bandits and weapons is not indicated after a two-hour period, the gathering is collected a second time and the hostages taken are shot before the eyes of the population, after which new hostages are taken and those gathered at the gathering are invited to give out bandits and weapons again. Those who want to do this become separate, are divided into hundreds and each hundred is passed for questioning through the polling commission (representatives of the Special Department and the Military Tribunal).

    Everyone should testify, not being dissuaded by ignorance. In case of persistence, new executions are carried out, etc. For the development of the material obtained from the polls, expeditionary units are created with the obligatory participation in them of those who have provided information, and other local residents and are sent to catch bandits. At the end of the purge, the state of siege is lifted, it is put up with a roar and the police are imposed.

    This Plenipotentiary Commission of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee orders to accept for steady execution.

    Chairman of the Plenipotentiary Commission Antonov-Ovseenko

    Commander Tukhachevsky

    Russian State Military Archive F.235. Op. 2. D.16. L.25
    1. credo
      credo April 2 2018 16: 45
      +3
      And what did you mean by that?
    2. Prosha
      Prosha April 2 2018 20: 43
      +1
      I don’t understand why you don’t like taking hostages and shooting them?


      The abomination and meanness of the concept of international and cannot be justified, so your example shows nothing but your cynicism and, excuse me, stupidity! (
  5. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 2 2018 16: 17
    +2

    The most interesting thing in the left photo is perfect german soldier (© Berliner Tageblatt) Werner Goldberg, whose father was Jewish.
    1. BAI
      BAI April 2 2018 16: 24
      0
      whose father was a Jew

      And yet, he was quite real, not only blue-eyed (true Aryan), but also “blue-eyed”.
      And this is not an April Fool’s joke, oddly enough.
  6. BAI
    BAI April 2 2018 16: 18
    +1
    In my opinion, a distortion of the history of war has long been punished.
    1. Deck
      Deck April 2 2018 16: 25
      +1
      Then we need a legislatively executed version of the history of war. And then in my memory it has changed a couple of times.
      1. credo
        credo April 2 2018 16: 51
        +1
        Quote: Deck
        Then we need a legislatively executed version of the history of war. And then in my memory it has changed a couple of times.

        I don’t know how it is with you (in China it seems like a flag), but in Russia the history of the Great Patriotic War never changed, but was only supplemented by unknown facts.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 2 2018 18: 04
          +4
          Quote: credo
          I don’t know how it is with you (in China it seems like a flag), but in Russia the history of the Great Patriotic War never changed, but was only supplemented by unknown facts.

          Yeah ... like a lead role dear Nikita Sergeevich or how Zhukov wanted to confer with political officer Brezhnev. smile
          Seriously, I remember how in the late 80s the history of the USSR of the 90th century, including the Second World War, was taught by articles in the newspaper Pravda, and not by textbooks. Because the story changed literally every month. And about the history of the Second World War in the XNUMXs and scary to remember.
          In fact, we do not have an official history of the Great Patriotic War now. Because the old Soviet history requires too many edits and often does not even fit as the "skeleton" of a new history (the same Frontier Battle of 1941 and Prokhorovka must be rewritten almost completely). But there is no new story.
          1. Prosha
            Prosha April 2 2018 20: 48
            0
            I do not agree with you, there is not a new story but a real one and anyone who wants can always at least get acquainted. History, as a true science, is cleared of all rubbish over time.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA April 3 2018 10: 29
              +1
              Quote: Prosha
              I do not agree with you, there is not a new story but a real one and anyone who wants can always at least get acquainted. History, as a true science, is cleared of all rubbish over time.

              Nevertheless, we do not have an official history of the Second World War. So it’s impossible to formally “punish distortion” - for there is no model with which one can be compared.
              In addition, the "distortion of history" is a double-edged sword. The same Zamulin for his work on Prokhorovka, in which he brought Soviet documents about the losses of our tank corps and the shortcomings in planning and conducting a counterattack, cheering patriots with foam at the mouth called for prosecution.
      2. Prosha
        Prosha April 2 2018 20: 46
        0
        And then in my memory it has changed a couple of times.

        The story did not change - Germany was defeated and the war ended in Berlin. USSR country winner. What is your version does not coincide with the main?
        1. Deck
          Deck April 3 2018 21: 41
          0
          The history of the war in two sentences. Lano. Well then, in the same style, your biography: born, devoured, slept, died. And what is wrong?
          1. Prosha
            Prosha April 5 2018 22: 16
            0
            You exaggerate, but the fact itself remains unchanged and one cannot disagree with this. The main milestones in history are like a skeleton, on which everything else is dressed, and yours - born, died and the rest, more particularly, which are more suitable for the individual, rather than the historical event. But this is already from philosophy, and I in GUKTU to my shame) skipped it (.
            1. Deck
              Deck April 6 2018 17: 29
              0
              Well then, in order: Well, not only Germany was defeated, the war did not end in Berlin, and not only the USSR was the victorious country. This was taught in a Soviet school. So it turns out that you distort the story and you need to go to jail
              1. Prosha
                Prosha April 6 2018 18: 02
                0
                Are you raving, or is your spring sun baked? I understand that you are talking about an Asian theater, I also have a concept about it, but there is so little convincing there, may the Chinese comrades forgive me. And who else are the winners of the country ??? England and the USA, it’s sacred, without their active participation the USSR would never have ended the war with victory !!! Yes, I forgot, our brothers from Normandy Neman, then Polish formations, then Romanians, they also declared war on Hitler after they fucked them ... then who else they forgot, oh and even the African tribes who defended the savannah from Rommel. Like all the winners listed, you did not feel funny? No need to start an empty conversation and ask stupid questions and you will not write nasty things, I rephrased the main text, if that. ... in the Soviet school they taught the right things, but not all of them studied correctly.
  7. Rostislav
    Rostislav April 2 2018 16: 31
    +1
    These prohibitions are palliative. They will be silent in public, and in the kitchen they will spray twice with saliva from anger.
    It is necessary to teach, and moreover, to bring up brains and conscience. As immunity from brown infection.
  8. mavrus
    mavrus April 2 2018 17: 05
    0
    Quote: credo
    Quote: Deck
    Then we need a legislatively executed version of the history of war. And then in my memory it has changed a couple of times.

    I don’t know how it is with you (in China it seems like a flag), but in Russia the history of the Great Patriotic War never changed, but was only supplemented by unknown facts.

    And what about the “additional unknown facts” by whom and when?
    All these feature films: bastards, penal battalion, gu-ha, etc. etc. what's this? The distortion of the history of the Great Patriotic War, or, as our liberal intelligentsia claims, is just "artistic fiction."
    1. Mac Simka
      Mac Simka April 2 2018 19: 31
      +3
      In the past 20 years, I had the impression that Germany had been defeated by fines, killing ... (a film if something like that) and demoted officers. The historical truth (if any) has vanished. And right now we’re watching all kinds of fantasy. I look forward to the battle of the elves with Mordor on the Kursk.
      1. dSK
        dSK April 2 2018 20: 16
        0
        Quote: Ivan Ivanovich
        I look forward to the battle of the elves with Mordor on the Kursk.
        If Mr. Medynsky will sit in his chair and not see this. Bondarchuk, the "younger" already "made" the occupation of Moscow "aliens."
      2. Prosha
        Prosha April 2 2018 20: 52
        +1
        Regrettably, you are right! The current generation of liberal scum, in other words I can’t name them, betray the memory of their ancestors - some by intention, and some by thoughtlessness.
  9. AleBors
    AleBors April 2 2018 21: 49
    0
    What about the Jews again? Did the Nazis and their henchmen kill anyone else? Maybe you should not highlight the most affected?
  10. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim April 2 2018 21: 55
    0
    Poland recently decided that they would be imprisoned for any mention of the responsibility of the Poles for participating in the mass extermination of Jews.
    Yes, the Poles are still those fascists.
    Only here in the German plan "Ost" provided for the destruction of 90% of the population of Poland.
    We live in an interesting time, Israeli mercenaries are dragging Natsik into Ukraine for punitive operations in the Donbass.
    Poles protect the Nazis at the state level.
    Nothing to say about the Baltic states.
    Brothers Bulgarians in NATO, etc.
  11. Antares
    Antares April 2 2018 22: 26
    +1
    It’s especially hard for me to read like Odessa

    In our city there was everything.
    and such
    The act states that during the period from December 22, 1941 to January 15, 1942, the German invaders launched a mass execution of civilians driven from the Odessa region and the Republic of Moldova to a camp at the Bogdanovka state farm - only about 54 thousand people. Of these, 44 thousand people were shot in a pit near the pine forest of the state farm Bogdanovka. They were burnt alive in three buildings of a pigsty in each of a thousand people who refused to go to death. Every day, 500-700 people who died from hunger and cold were dying from hunger and cold.

    and such


    (In the city from October 1941 to April 1944 theaters worked:
    Opera, Estrada, Russian Drama and Comedy Theater, Chamber Operetta Theater “Grotesque”, Ukrainian Drama. Children's, Intimate, Conservatory Hall, Observation Theater, Modern Theater, Youth Theater, Transnistria Garden Theater, Audience Theater on Slobodka, etc.
    The restored Odessa film studio also worked, and the legendary Petr Leshchenko sang in the Nord restaurant.
    On the stages of theaters there were such productions: “Eugene Onegin”, “Prince Igor”, “Sorochinskaya Fair”, “Cyrano de Bergerac”, “Carmen”, “Faust”. Songs, romances in Russian and Ukrainian languages ​​sounded from the stage.)
    Although of course, the Romanian and German periods are different ... (the initial phase of the occupation and the final)
    on the night of April 10, the Nazis drove civilians into the basement of house number 84 on Ostrovidova Street and burned them alive. In the morning, the inhabitants of Odessa identified their near and dear ones, the bodies were taken home, 17 unidentified corpses were buried in a mass grave.

    I know that this happened in every city, village / village, settlement of our Motherland, the European part of which was occupied by the Germans and their allies.
    But the current situation is completely different. And here there is no USSR and Red Army and that great country. But there is capitalism. Ukraine, Russian Federation, EU, USA and others ...
  12. Imobile
    Imobile April 3 2018 09: 56
    0
    Modern people rely on facts. And they are classified. And because they are classified, you can invent anything. The state bears full responsibility for concealment. But prohibiting is not for the current generation. It grew on other principles. So that they could be banned - it was necessary to spread rot from childhood. But they can easily be explained by facts. Were there camps? There were. You can tell about them.
  13. Imobile
    Imobile April 3 2018 10: 07
    0
    Quote: Mac Simka
    In the past 20 years, I had the impression that Germany had been defeated by fines, killing ... (a film if something like that) and demoted officers. The historical truth (if any) has vanished. And right now we’re watching all kinds of fantasy. I look forward to the battle of the elves with Mordor on the Kursk.

    And why did he keep silent about them? They gave historical memory and deservedly. Yes, not only they won, but also the Red Army, and the simplest people made the greatest contribution. So why are you so bad about your own? Moreover, almost all of them died, not according to the Orthodox. In the film, I did not find any serious errors, everything was filmed with dignity. The truth is only about the fines, but after all, they were silent about them.
    1. Prosha
      Prosha April 4 2018 19: 48
      0
      Excuse me, what movie are you talking about? If the series are fines, then the film itself is one big and grave mistake. And one more about penalties no one was silent, but simply did not talk. There were no special prohibitions, it wasn’t customary to mention, but if anyone was interested in this issue, you could always find statistics and literature.
      1. Imobile
        Imobile April 5 2018 10: 53
        0
        And can you read more, where is the error? In my opinion, everything is justly worthy and truthful. Naturally - this is not a documentary. Maybe some little things, and even then I did not notice. "12 Panfilov" suppose, generally horror in this regard, hit the little things, and lost the spirit of war. And what is the difference between being silent and not talking? Remember “Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten”. It’s good that at least one film was shot about them. Question number 2, why is there not a single large monument in the main direction of the attack on Moscow? You are driving along Novorizhsky, there are only signs, the army died here, they stood until the last soldier, here, here ... and not a single huge monument with a museum where you can come with children and tell about the exploits
        1. Prosha
          Prosha April 5 2018 17: 58
          0
          “The truth about penal battles: A penalty kick, or How an officer penal battalion reached Berlin” -Pyltsyn A.V [media = http: //flibusta.is/b/171491] If you can’t download, contact me I will give you a link to my yandex disk. And try to compare for yourself what’s in the series and what’s in life, I’m not saying that the book is the ultimate truth, but it was written by a person who directly fought, and not by a popular screenwriter. Well, here is a link to his interview on the Goblin channel, if the Goblin himself is not pleasant to you, then another person is not conducting an interview there, you can watch calmly: [media = https: //oper.ru/video/view.php? T =
          1869], or here:
  14. Opera
    Opera April 4 2018 15: 49
    0
    The article is correct. But now I have a question, what exactly did the author understand now to resent ?! About the similar position of a certain part of Ukrainians, not so small as to not talk about it, the author was not aware until 2014 ?! The author did not watch Ukrainian television? He doesn’t know that from 2014, and until XNUMX, in Lviv, St. George’s ribbons were torn off and spat on his face ?! I did not see with what slogans the Nazis from the Freedom party came to the Rada ?! The author did not know how many voters voted for them, and not only in Western women ?! The author does not know about dozens of brutally murdered inhabitants of Odessa in the house of trade unions ?! So. what right now is he so pissed off ?! Such a reaction to his material among Ukrainians is easily predictable! You just don’t have to stay in illusions!
    Afterword: Bulgarian, something came out of place, as always!
    Quote: Mac Simka
    And where are thousands of indignant posts about that - betrayed, sold, forgotten, ungrateful ect.
    Maybe because the article is not about Bulgaria, no?

    Deal with the Nazis in your country! With those who mock at the monuments of our heroes! And tell your authorities the people of which country liberated Bulgaria and thereby allowed the Bulgarian people to survive in general! And then our Patriarch is already compelled by your authority to make comments, but he has more important things to do! Now, when you bring order in your country, maybe here people will look at your stupid questions indulgently!
  15. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 April 5 2018 12: 51
    0
    Everything is just really. No criminal punishment needed. It is necessary to introduce rules into the law that could regulate the right of everyone to collect money from anyone who publishes false information in the media and the amount of the recovery should be such that after two or three such losses in court, not only the person himself, but also his relatives only the housing was taken, but even the kidneys were sold.
  16. tank64rus
    tank64rus April 5 2018 21: 06
    0
    Odessa was occupied by Romanians. But then there were raids and executions of those who did not manage to leave. The defeat of the Romanians on the outskirts of the city misled many. The number of executed has reached 6 thousand people. They didn’t talk about this figure before. Romania was in the social bloc of states.
  17. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir April 5 2018 21: 37
    0
    Moreover, the Jewish population of Odessa during the occupation has not decreased - see the movie "Liquidation"
    cool proof belay