Military Review

In the US, compared the Russian and American howitzers

112
The American media tried to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the American and Russian artillery and compare the effectiveness of the main self-propelled howitzers, which are in service with the two states.


The National Interest publication in its material compared the newest American artillery system M109A7, which should replace the main US Army self-propelled gun M109A6 Paladin and the Russian 152-mm SAU XacUMX2 Acacia, which had already been replaced by the nymnn. "Coalition"

In the US, compared the Russian and American howitzers


M109A6 Paladin - the main American ACS, in which the loading process occurs manually. Therefore, the rate of guns leaves much to be desired. The howitzer is reliable and accurate, but in terms of firepower it cannot be compared with Russian, European or Asian artillery systems. The more advanced M109A7 differs in that, thanks to the automatic loader, it can fire with a maximum rate of fire of up to four rounds per minute.

The main Russian self-propelled howitzer 2C19 "Msta" due to the programmed sequence of the automatic loader firing at a speed of 7-8 rounds per minute. The rate of fire of the 2C19М2 version increased to 10 shots per minute. At the same time for shooting accuracy using the GLONASS system. And SAU 2C33 has an even higher rate of fire. In addition, in the Russian army, in contrast to the US Army, the 122-millimeter 2C1 "Carnation" and 120-millimeter 2C34 "Khost" are used.

The publication notes that both American and Russian main SPGs can fire with similar types of ammunition and for a comparable range.

In general, the main differences between howitzers are reduced to the speed of fire and the degree of integration in the fighting. In the US, howitzers are more integrated, but less rapid.
- it is said in the publication. It is emphasized that the Russian military give priority to the firepower and rate of fire howitzers, as well as the interaction of artillery. And, as The National Interest reminds, "it is always easier to install or upgrade electronic equipment than to create a new weapon," reports RG-Force.
Photos used:
RIA News
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  1. Angel_and_Demon
    Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 15: 16
    +22
    And, as The National Interest recalls, "it is always easier to install or upgrade electronic equipment than to create a new weapon," reports RG-Force
    strange, why does the hegemon have no exclusive weapon? this is not right, Russian hackers fixed the article, so it turns out?
    1. Dezinto
      Dezinto 7 March 2018 15: 20
      +7
      10 rounds per minute
      shells in 120 mm !!!
      Then I got caught and thought, well, what can be cooler? Very fast charging .... laughing
      1. hrych
        hrych 7 March 2018 15: 22
        +29
        Quote: DEZINTO
        Very fast charging ....

        Nimble Maxim wassat
        1. Dezinto
          Dezinto 7 March 2018 15: 23
          +18
          So I didn’t want to blacken well, well, well ... imagine how he would sweat 10 rounds per minute to charge .....
          “Oh, Maksimka!” The commander will look askance at him.
          1. vadson
            vadson 8 March 2018 17: 15
            +2
            Quote: DEZINTO
            So I didn’t want to blacken well, well, well ... imagine how he would sweat 10 rounds per minute to charge .....
            “Oh, Maksimka!” The commander will look askance at him.

            it is we lazy Russians who came up with an automatic loader so as not to sweat, and the Yankees are hardworking people, and their labor productivity is high. competition between maxims will increase you look and will charge 20 rounds per minute)))
            1. Vkd dvk
              Vkd dvk 8 March 2018 19: 08
              0
              If the loaders are inserted into the turret, with the help of which they can be quickly brought to the breech, and each person will have an appropriate item in their hands, then the rate of fire can be significantly increased.
        2. Hiller
          Hiller 7 March 2018 22: 08
          0
          in the tank "Abrams"
        3. StVahmistr
          StVahmistr 8 March 2018 21: 20
          +1
          Nimble Maxim

          Although he is nimble, he still won’t understand without the help of the white one, "where to put" a blank ... laughing
      2. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 7 March 2018 15: 23
        +10
        10 rounds per minute
        shells in 120 mm !!!
        152 mm hi
        1. Dezinto
          Dezinto 7 March 2018 15: 24
          +6
          152 mm


          aah! even so! especially! go nuts!
          1. ul_vitalii
            ul_vitalii 7 March 2018 17: 02
            +6
            Quote: DEZINTO
            152 mm


            aah! even so! especially! go nuts!

            hi And if something is combed during charging? belay
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 7 March 2018 22: 45
              +2
              lose a little in rate of fire laughing something
      3. Angel_and_Demon
        Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 15: 44
        +21
        Nicholas hi
        Then I got caught and thought, well, what can be cooler?
        they have a double automatic loader, and we have a single, so they have cooler
        1. Genry
          Genry 7 March 2018 20: 55
          +1
          Quote: Angel_and_Demon
          they have a double automatic loader,

          And how do they breathe there? And with such smokiness, the entire compartment should be black (ceiling for sure). For a movie painted?
          I saw other videos, there they still banyan ...
          1. svd-xnumx
            svd-xnumx 7 March 2018 22: 22
            +3
            And how do they breathe there? And with such smokiness, the entire compartment should be black (ceiling for sure). For a movie painted?
            I saw other videos, there they still banyan ...
            So in the video you can clearly see that after each shot the breech and the bolt is charging on the left with something smearing. And it’s something like oil, after the third shot when the barrel warmed up the smoke fell black altogether and with intense prolonged firing it will go even before the shot when " black "oiled banner in the breech will shove.
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 7 March 2018 22: 47
              +5
              so to speak "black bath" laughing
            2. 73bor
              73bor 10 March 2018 12: 38
              0
              The ignition system is also visible there - the “capsule” one, like on battleships, the trigger shutter sticks, the commander sets the moderator (generally nonsense), lack of ventilation (the calculation number just opens the hatch) as well as the injector in general causes “delight”, almost the entire crew is in one place (seven in one stroke)! wassat
        2. Alf
          Alf 7 March 2018 22: 23
          +4
          Quote: Angel_and_Demon
          they have a double automatic loader, and we have a single, so they have cooler

          And these people forbid us to pick our nose ...
          A stone age of some kind ...
        3. Firework
          Firework 8 March 2018 04: 28
          +7
          and if they lose the rope?
        4. Seraphimamur
          Seraphimamur 8 March 2018 13: 09
          0
          And is this what the Americans say advanced military equipment? Shame and only. And you can set the wick on fire.
        5. StVahmistr
          StVahmistr 8 March 2018 21: 46
          0
          so they have cooler

          Do they have a lunch break between exercises there?
      4. ALEXXX1983
        ALEXXX1983 7 March 2018 16: 04
        +6
        Quote: DEZINTO
        So I didn’t want to blacken well, well, well ... imagine how he would sweat 10 rounds per minute to charge .....
        “Oh, Maksimka!” The commander will look askance at him.

        Well, there it actually says that on our 10 V / m (152 mm), and on them - 4 V / m and the projectile is not 120, but 155 mm from them.
      5. verner1967
        verner1967 7 March 2018 18: 48
        +3
        Quote: DEZINTO
        Then I got it

        and if you read more carefully? not
        Quote: DEZINTO
        in 120 mm !!
        and 152 mm, we are talking about a modernized self-propelled gun 2S19 "Msta"
        The rate of fire of version 2S19M2 is increased to 10 rounds per minute
        and Amer’s
        Quote: DEZINTO
        10 rounds per minute
        and only four and not manually, and the machine is
        The more advanced M109A7 is also distinguished by the fact that thanks to the automatic loading, it can fire with a maximum rate of fire up to four rounds per minute.
        Carefully need to approach reading the text lol
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 7 March 2018 22: 50
          +2
          automatic loader on M109 (letters do not play a role)? wassat with hell did he take there?
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 8 March 2018 11: 45
            0
            Quote: self-propelled
            with hell did he take there?

            Quote: self-propelled
            letters do not play a role

            apparently play. The automatic charging device appeared, the letter appeared
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 7 March 2018 15: 37
      +3
      At the development level (Krusader, NLOS) everything is fine with them, the problem is at the adoption stage.
      1. Angel_and_Demon
        Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 15: 49
        +5
        The fate of the NLOS-C self-propelled guns was decided at the beginning of 2011 - according to the statements of the head of the US Department of War Robert Gates, this project was closed with a number of other developments in order to save money, and all systems developed for NLOS-C were used to upgrade the M109 howitzers before the modification PIM
        there is no chance request will continue to use a dual automatic loader laughing
      2. Alf
        Alf 7 March 2018 22: 24
        +1
        Quote: strannik1985
        At the development level (Krusader, NLOS) everything is fine with them, the problem is at the adoption stage.

        It was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines ...
    3. 210ox
      210ox 7 March 2018 16: 35
      +4
      This is what I want to note. People are fighting first of all. Yesterday there was an article about the death of US special forces in Nigeria .... For all the tragedy, I note, they fled. For all its exclusivity, "the best weapons and preparation" ..
      Quote: Angel_and_Demon
      And, as The National Interest recalls, "it is always easier to install or upgrade electronic equipment than to create a new weapon," reports RG-Force
      strange, why does the hegemon have no exclusive weapon? this is not right, Russian hackers fixed the article, so it turns out?
      1. Angel_and_Demon
        Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 16: 41
        +4
        Quote: 210ox
        For all its exclusivity, "the best weapons and training" ..

        so this
      2. ZVO
        ZVO 7 March 2018 18: 35
        +3
        Quote: 210ox
        This is what I want to note. People are fighting first of all. Yesterday there was an article about the death of US special forces in Nigeria .... For all the tragedy, I note, they fled. For all its exclusivity, "the best weapons and preparation" ..


        and you don’t want to consider the second side of the problem?
        How well-trained our people in Syria have been rolled out by technically superior forces ...
        and the qualities of these people of ours did nothing to help them ...
        1. Lock36
          Lock36 7 March 2018 20: 08
          +5
          Give proof. Do you eat all informational waste?
          1. ZVO
            ZVO 7 March 2018 20: 20
            +1
            Quote: Lock36
            Give proof. Do you eat all informational waste?

            1. Lock36
              Lock36 7 March 2018 20: 25
              +1
              And in general, an exhaustive answer - she herself does not know anything.
              And this is not an army. Did they have heavy weapons?
              1. ZVO
                ZVO 8 March 2018 07: 28
                +1
                Quote: Lock36
                And in general, an exhaustive answer - she herself does not know anything.
                And this is not an army. Did they have heavy weapons?


                and who spoke about the army?

                I talked about the option when knowledge and skills, individual training do not help ...

                And these people were trained. Well trained
                1. Lock36
                  Lock36 8 March 2018 14: 53
                  0
                  Quote: ZVO

                  and who spoke about the army?

                  I talked about the option when knowledge and skills, individual training do not help ...

                  And these people were trained. Well trained

                  Any trained people, if not armed, is just a target.

                  And then why on earth did you compare them to US Special Forces? Where is the logic?
        2. ikrut
          ikrut 7 March 2018 20: 33
          +4
          They “rolled out” a column on the march by aviation. And that is not ours. Ours were just nearby and came under the distribution too. Not expecting. It’s like in an old joke: “Is it true that Izya won a million at roulette? True. But not at roulette, but at preference. And not a million, but three rubles. And he did not win, but lost” (c)
          1. ZVO
            ZVO 8 March 2018 07: 34
            +1
            Quote: ikrut
            They “rolled out” a column on the march by aviation. And that is not ours. Ours were just nearby and came under the distribution too. Not expecting. It’s like in an old joke: “Is it true that Izya won a million at roulette? True. But not at roulette, but at preference. And not a million, but three rubles. And he did not win, but lost” (c)



            You can twirl the words you want.

            Have people been trained? Yes!
            Are people dead? Yes!

            Did this training help them in this case? No.

            There are always options when your knowledge and skills are worthless - this is an option either:
            1. In quantity in the form of multiple quantitative superiority, like cannon fodder
            2. in quality in the form of quality superiority of weapons. When you're smart and trained, but with AK in your hands. And against you, a lot of tanks, helicopters, airplanes.

            So you understand, or besides jokes there is nothing in the head?
        3. - = ANTRAX = -
          - = ANTRAX = - 8 March 2018 08: 54
          0
          they rolled you out there.
      3. Simargl
        Simargl 8 March 2018 05: 14
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        First of all, people fight.
        I understand that you can fight with stones and sticks, but it’s better to give people weapons that are at least as good as enemy weapons!
        It’s stupid to rush into a tank with a saber.
    4. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 March 2018 16: 56
      +5
      Quote: Angel_and_Demon
      why does hegemon have neither the most exclusive weapon?

      Because of my own dope.
      For example, the Americans could take the analogue of the "Coalition" into service 15 years ago.
      1. Angel_and_Demon
        Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 17: 02
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        For example, the Americans could take the analogue of the "Coalition" into service 15 years ago.

        as I understand the keyword here РјРѕРіР »Ryo? but they went the other way request
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 March 2018 17: 18
          +5
          Quote: Angel_and_Demon
          I understand the key word here could? but they went the other way

          The "path" has nothing to do with it. American artillery is killed by corporate undercover games. They "save money" where it is not necessary (as an example, the SAU "Kruseyder", ahead of the German "Donar" and the Russian "Coalition" for 10-15 years)
          But at the same time they are pumping enormous amounts of money where it is not needed. (As an example, the worst in NATO and at the same time the most expensive in the world M777. The only lightweight, but this characteristic is in demand only in the airborne and airborne assault brigades, of which there are only 7)
          1. Angel_and_Demon
            Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 17: 41
            +3
            Quote: Spade
            The "path" has nothing to do with it. American artillery is killed by corporate undercover games. They "save money" where it is not necessary ....
            But at the same time they are pumping huge funds to places where it is not needed

            they saw who knows how, well, and who is faster, we are even better off this, everything is fine - continue comrades, go the right way
          2. okko077
            okko077 7 March 2018 18: 12
            +2
            In general, the main differences between howitzers are reduced to the speed of fire and the degree of integration in the fighting. In the US, howitzers are more integrated, but less rapid.
            Oh, how famously urya amicably moved in the right direction ?! Lopatov, I don’t hear comments in essence, or do you completely agree with the pi_ndsky conclusion? They stated that their howitzers knew where to shoot, but ours didn’t ?! But what about the destruction of targets in real time, or at least the response time, otherwise even the Coalition and even Armata are integrated into the tactical level ASUV, but how, in fact, are our miracle guns integrated ?! ... There is no armata, no ASUV tactical link, but they are integrated ... Stream, teapots ...
      2. ZVO
        ZVO 7 March 2018 19: 03
        +1
        Quote: Spade

        Because of my own dope.
        For example, the Americans could take the analogue of the "Coalition" into service 15 years ago.


        I think. that they had dizziness from successes from MLRS and Himars
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 March 2018 21: 48
          +2
          Quote: ZVO
          Quote: Spade

          Because of my own dope.
          For example, the Americans could take the analogue of the "Coalition" into service 15 years ago.

          I think. that they had dizziness from successes from MLRS and Himars

          Everything is more complicated there. Allegedly too heavy and therefore expensive. They had a new concept in their heads, FCS, and the Krusader was hacked in her favor ..
          But the FCS was hacked in favor of the workers. Sorry, in favor of the American military-industrial complex and joined them. For them, three types of brigades with different standard equipment are much better than one type. They drank machines for the lungs with ships and other tantrums, the new jackpot is the stake — the rearmament of the “heavy” huge jackpot.
  2. hrych
    hrych 7 March 2018 15: 17
    +8
    Compare with our 152 mm howitzer
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 7 March 2018 16: 20
      +3
      Quote: hrych
      Compare with our 152 mm howitzer


      Have you never seen this before?
      1. lance
        lance 7 March 2018 17: 44
        0
        compare sending range
      2. hrych
        hrych 7 March 2018 18: 39
        +1
        Quote: ZVO
        Have you never seen this before?

        Do you know that in the USA
        All artillery nuclear shells and tactical missile warheads were completely withdrawn from service and dismantled. Currently, the US arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons is supported primarily in the form of free-falling aircraft bombs delivered by tactical aircraft. Tactical nuclear weapons are no longer an integral part of American military doctrine.
        So forget and calm down laughing And in Russia, on the contrary, tactical nuclear weapons are the basis for deterring neighbors, and our semi-megaton filling RCC Granite, although it relates to tactical systems, is still half-megaton.
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 7 March 2018 20: 06
          +4
          Quote: hrych
          So forget and calm down laughing And in Russia, on the contrary, tactical nuclear weapons are the basis for deterring neighbors, and our semi-megaton filling RCC Granite, although it relates to tactical systems, is still half-megaton.


          My poorly educated druk!
          You and your training manual, apparently, do not know that in 1991 a unilateral decision of the Soviet Union was signed on the disposal of all nuclear mines and shells for barreled artillery, as well as nuclear warheads of the OTRK. And by 1995, this decision was implemented.
          Our decision was made in response to the same one-sided US decision made a little earlier.

          Learn the materiel - stop looking wretched ...
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 7 March 2018 21: 11
            0
            in 1991, a unilateral decision of the Soviet Union was signed on the disposal of all nuclear mines and shells for barrel artillery

            Yes, due to its small size, it is difficult to maintain a nuclear warhead in working condition. Therefore, the main emphasis in tactical nuclear weapons is placed on missiles of various types of basing.
          2. hrych
            hrych 8 March 2018 03: 19
            +3
            Quote: ZVO
            My poorly educated druk!

            My poorly educated foe, for your information, the USSR no longer exists since 1991, and there was no agreement to reduce tactical nuclear weapons. To all attempts to conclude this, the Russian Federation refused and at present, there are no control mechanisms on the part of the West, as, for example, provides for agreements on strategic offensive arms or INF. Stockholm Institute of World Studies on the number of nuclear weapons: in the USA - 500 (B-61 bombs) units, in Russia - 2000 (the entire spectrum, including shells, mines, warheads, torpedoes, air defense / missile defense, bombs and tactical missiles, including anti-ship missiles ) And according to American analysts affiliated with intelligence services, the Russian Federation has 5,5 thousand tactical nuclear weapons. However, the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation, in contrast to the American (lightning fast global strike by non-nuclear means), is based on the use of all types of nuclear weapons, namely, strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons. The hunchback did not have enough time, since 1991 he only outlined a unilateral reduction of nuclear weapons and was thrown into the trash of history, and the Russian Federation got from 22 to 000 thousand samples of nuclear weapons (no one knows for sure we take less). According to available, extremely unverified data (there is no mechanism for controlling enemies), by 40 all nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons of the Navy were moved to centralized storage facilities, and 000% of these funds were eliminated. 2000% of the Air Force tactical nuclear weapons and 30% of anti-aircraft missile defense warheads were eliminated, and the approximate proportion affected shells with mines. Those. generally liquidated, according to, but not cases from a third to half nuclear weapons, of course under EBN. As a third or half of the Soviet inheritance indicates (we take a minimum of 50 thousand), then we have the figures of analysts from 50 to 22 thousand for GDP at the end of the EBN. But since Putin is a militarist, not only did the reduction be stopped, but the villains allegedly resumed production. Naturally, the Iskander, Caliber and Onyx, as well as the X-15, being a tactical weapon, imply a nuclear warhead, so new gadgets, in particular the Dagger and Zircon, also require a nuclear warhead. If Sarmat and Vanguard fall under the strategic nuclear forces, like the KR with nuclear warheads, however, the intercontinental torpedo with nuclear warheads, although it has a hundred-megaton charge, does not fall under the strategic offensive arms treaty, it is intended not only to destroy the coastal cities of the enemy, but also naval units and strategic submarines, when we know the square of the enemy, then the whole square is destroyed laughing Those. Status-6, fulfills the tasks of nuclear weapons and in the START treaty, as the strategic nuclear forces are not spelled out laughing Learn, son, you will be a smart Russophobe wassat put your trust in Stealth and Aegis ... but don’t be fooled by yourself am
      3. 210ox
        210ox 7 March 2018 19: 22
        0
        How many mines does croquet throw? It is more dangerous for calculation.
        Quote: ZVO
        Quote: hrych
        Compare with our 152 mm howitzer


        Have you never seen this before?
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 7 March 2018 19: 58
          +1
          Quote: 210ox
          How many mines does croquet throw? It is more dangerous for calculation.


          those. W-48 shell and more modern W82 155mm caliber - didn’t you see?
          There are only 4 pictures. on 2 were 155mm shells - how limited the sensory organs are in the sense organs ... 50% of the vision disappears immediately ...
  3. san4es
    san4es 7 March 2018 15: 33
    +7
    M109A6 Paladin vs ACS Msta S

    1. Angel_and_Demon
      Angel_and_Demon 7 March 2018 15: 50
      +4
      In the paladin, loaders from weightlifting, they are cooler
    2. ltc35
      ltc35 7 March 2018 15: 54
      +1
      Impressive! Americans are tired of watching. Here our time to throw more. More noise in our Pobole will be ...
    3. ALEXXX1983
      ALEXXX1983 7 March 2018 16: 19
      +1
      Quote: san4es
      M109A6 Paladin vs ACS Msta S


      Surprised by the difference in the size of the propellant charge. Amer’s firing range is much larger, but the size of the MH is 2 times smaller.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 7 March 2018 17: 01
        +9
        Quote: ALEXXX1983
        Surprised by the difference in the size of the propellant charge. Amer’s firing range is much larger, but the size of the MH is 2 times smaller.

        ?
        Do you think that this module is designed for firing at maximum range? One "green" is a range of up to 8 km.
        8)))
    4. okko077
      okko077 7 March 2018 19: 04
      +4
      For whom is this primitive movie and the opinion of a wretched expert? ... Look at all the similar films and reports from our teachings .. At us everywhere MSTA shoots direct fire !!! To whom it is not clear, the gun is lowered almost to the horizon ...
      US intelligence systems will discover our self-propelled guns even before they advance to firing positions not only with direct fire, but also at maximum range ... and they will be destroyed ... But we do not have such technical means with which our weapons are integrated .. .Our source of target designation is people with binoculars and machines, and there are no technical means providing hidden target designation in real time ... Well, how can the advantages of our self-propelled guns be realized? Only due to the death of spotters, but this will not help !!! Glory to our wise "mudras" in the leadership of the Armed Forces and General Staff, primarily, who do not know how to fight in a new modern war ....
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 7 March 2018 19: 20
        +5
        Quote: okko077
        We have MCA everywhere shooting direct fire !!!

        eight))))))))))))))))))))))
        Quote: okko077
        For whom is this primitive opinion of a wretched expert?
        1. okko077
          okko077 7 March 2018 19: 35
          +1
          Will you also explain to the wives and children who died in Syria?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 7 March 2018 21: 49
            +2
            What? Bullshit about direct fire?
      2. okko077
        okko077 7 March 2018 19: 26
        +2
        Our army in Syria will carry out the tasks and will fulfill it, but the army’s leadership was completely obfuscated ... Our leadership doesn’t know and cannot imagine how to fight in a modern war and what is needed ... These degenerates again plan to lay down fields in military conflicts the corpses of our soldiers and officers ... They say that in Syria there is no ground component, and that’s why we can’t do everything ... And in a modern network-centric war with militants there can’t be a ground component ... So our ushlopki with general shoulder straps they don’t know how to fight in a modern war ... And it will be with our soldiers and officers as with PMCs ....
        1. Alexander War
          Alexander War 7 March 2018 20: 22
          +3
          And specifically for okko077 https://topwar.ru/129955-neobychnyy-rossiyskiy-bp
          la-zamechen-v-sirii.html
          1. okko077
            okko077 7 March 2018 21: 08
            0
            And what did you see here, can you explain? This is for people like you filmed, your level?
            1. Alexander War
              Alexander War 7 March 2018 21: 12
              +2
              I saw that you didn’t see!. In our country, people with binoculars and machines are the source of target designation. As an example, I brought you that target designation is provided not only by people with binoculars
            2. Alexander War
              Alexander War 7 March 2018 21: 16
              +2
              What is your level? Are we wildly behind in what?
              1. okko077
                okko077 7 March 2018 21: 30
                +1
                I’m answering, Combat Information Systems constantly monitor the position area in real time, and provide target designation and destruction of the enemy in real time using attached means, including self-propelled guns, MLRS and helicopters and attack UAVs ... For Syria in these areas, given the capabilities of strike weapons, only two or three ... There are striking means, we don’t have such information .... and there are no means that provide such information ... No, not because not, but because we don’t know and don’t know how ... This is sabotage and stupidity ...
                1. Alexander War
                  Alexander War 7 March 2018 21: 36
                  +1
                  You're talking about satellites and UAVs! And what do you think we don’t have? Yes, there are no shock UAVs I can’t argue, but we have target designation with UAVs!
                  1. okko077
                    okko077 7 March 2018 21: 58
                    0
                    We have everything, but they work separately, outside the system, information channels are not coordinated, information is not exchanged in real time ... All this information is processed manually and transmitted by voice to the headquarters by radio, received and processed, and then it goes planning operations and issuing target coordinates ... hours pass, the headquarters decide everything, and the enemy has already done everything ....
                2. Ramzaj99
                  Ramzaj99 9 March 2018 10: 39
                  0
                  For Syria, these areas, given the capabilities of strike weapons, are only two or three ..

                  The Pentagon recently complained that the Russians in Syria so saturated the space with a variety of UAVs that the US Army was not able to create such a saturation. And this is not stated by the Russian General Staff. So your words are at least false .....
        2. Alexander War
          Alexander War 7 March 2018 20: 26
          +1
          Our leadership does not know and does not imagine how to fight in modern warfare and what is needed for this ... These degenerates again plan in military conflicts to cover the fields with the corpses of our soldiers and officers It is only for mine testing and with weapons!
          1. okko077
            okko077 7 March 2018 21: 11
            0
            And where does information technology and modern warfare? ...
            1. poquello
              poquello 7 March 2018 22: 55
              +1
              Quote: okko077
              And where does information technology and modern warfare? ...

              can you say what specific? let's start with the fact that the bourgeoisie does not have setentries, or that ours used it in Syria when it was effective
              1. Mih1974
                Mih1974 8 March 2018 04: 50
                +1
                Well completeness repeat soon this Troll will no longer get into your site from your feed, otherwise it will even “burst” and splatter everything around lol .
                Keep it simple - Americans say they HAVE centric technology "maybe five times a night" lol , well, so you say that "can" is in Russia. good He himself didn’t see them and he will refer to them “nuetovsezanyut”, well, and you will refer to “to whom they are supposed to and know.” tongue
                1. okko077
                  okko077 8 March 2018 11: 16
                  0
                  A patriotic URYakalka got out and explained everything .... with the transition to personalities .... We are discussing an article, maybe something on the topic depict?
                2. poquello
                  poquello 8 March 2018 13: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Mih1974
                  it will be referred to as “nuetovsezanyut”, well, and you will refer to “who should be given to them and they know”

                  what does he refer to there xs, open sources on events - different devices interacted on tsu, this is an ordinary element of network-center, then what did “our friend” suddenly start to show off, and the bourgeois only at the cinema is fine
      3. Lock36
        Lock36 7 March 2018 20: 12
        0
        Are yours Chinese?
      4. Alexander War
        Alexander War 7 March 2018 20: 20
        +2
        Yes, and our MSTA and MLRS including Tornado shoots direct fire?
        1. poquello
          poquello 7 March 2018 23: 27
          +1
          Quote: Alexander War
          Yes, and our MSTA and MLRS including Tornado shoots direct fire?

          so in - the most direct-guided
  4. seos
    seos 7 March 2018 15: 50
    +1
    The publication notes that both American and Russian main SPGs can fire with similar types of ammunition and for a comparable range.

    The range of NATO cannons is 1.5 times higher with equal barrel length, projectile mass and charge ...
    The only self-propelled guns surpassing the NATO ones is the pre-production Coalition ...
    If we compare with our 2S19 "Msta" barrel length 47k (with a muzzle brake 52), then the modification M109A5 with a barrel length of 39 calibers has a maximum firing range of 30 km (against 24 km - 29 km Msta)
    1. Fornit
      Fornit 7 March 2018 16: 03
      0
      And how can this be explained?
      Sorry - not a gunner ... hi
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 7 March 2018 16: 31
        +5
        Quote: Fornit
        And how can this be explained?

        I have a friend .. he graduated from the Leningrad artillery. According to specialization, the spotter .. The range indicated by the Soviet self-propelled guns is not the maximum technical, but that maximum with the appropriate dispersion .. that is, it can be further but the density of fire decreases. Given that the main striking force of the United States - aviation .. they are unlikely to bother with such subtleties.
      2. seos
        seos 7 March 2018 21: 11
        0
        Well, some refer to the quality of the gunpowder .... but I don’t know, but with bullets and 30 mm shells the situation is similar .. for example, our 30X210V OF (it is outdated but we don’t have anything better) the shell has the same initial speed as their 20X173 with equal the mass of the warhead ... 30X165, according to the characteristics, was not even lying nearby ...
    2. dvina71
      dvina71 7 March 2018 16: 36
      +2
      Quote: seos
      maximum firing range 30 km

      Rocket projectile. Passive no more than 20.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 March 2018 17: 07
      +9
      Quote: seos
      M109A5 with a barrel length of 39 calibers has a maximum firing range of 30 km

      Actually 23.
      It is incorrect to compare the maximum firing range of two howitzers, and at the same time to take a conventional projectile for one, and for the other APC.
      1. seos
        seos 7 March 2018 21: 06
        0
        Actually 23 500

        Msta has 24, and this should be taken into account that the barrel of our gun is much longer ...
        Moreover M109 can Excalibur gasp for 30 km .... and our managed maximum 20 fly ..
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 March 2018 22: 23
          +3
          Quote: seos
          Msta has 24, and this should be taken into account that the barrel of our gun is much longer ...

          "Significantly" is how much? Per meter?
          Look:
          American 6 meters with copecks - 23.500
          Our 7 meters with copecks - 24.700
          German 8 meters with copecks - 30.200
          It turns out that our only two kilometers is not enough? And you are satisfied with this "all lost"?
          Moreover, our trunk is old Soviet, and the American and German are much newer. German 1998, American 2003.

          Quote: seos
          Moreover M109 can Excalibur gasp for 30 km .... and our managed maximum 20 fly ..

          Exactly 20? As far as I remember. the old Krasnopol, composite, fired at such a range. A new short one at 25.
          Well this is essentially not important. Again you are trying to compare the warm with the soft. The trajectories are fundamentally different.
          The American counterpart, Copperhead, shot at 16 in general. Because a semi-active laser seeker must receive a signal reflected from the target, and even so, to minimize the effect of clouds.
  5. Cuba
    Cuba 7 March 2018 15: 54
    +4
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    10 rounds per minute
    shells in 120 mm !!!
    152 mm hi

    and if this black man drops him on his leg ?? ... is it GIPS !!!
  6. Wolka
    Wolka 7 March 2018 16: 02
    +1
    but something about the price of the barrel and its ammunition not a word ...
  7. ALEXXX1983
    ALEXXX1983 7 March 2018 16: 26
    +2
    Quote: Cuba
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    10 rounds per minute
    shells in 120 mm !!!
    152 mm hi

    and if this black man drops him on his leg ?? ... is it GIPS !!!

    Ours can also drop, in Msta-S the automation is not complete, the loader is there and will be lucky if there is a plaster, not minced meat.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 March 2018 17: 24
      +3
      Quote: ALEXXX1983
      in Msta-S automation is not complete

      ?
      According to the shells, complete.
  8. Nikolay Fedorov
    Nikolay Fedorov 7 March 2018 16: 31
    +4
    Why do Americans compare artillery systems? Why do they want NATO countries to spend on weapons 2 percent of GDP? Why do they need all this if their soldiers are only suitable for writing complaints about something:
    The base commander of the Norwegian base, Lieutenant Colonel Trond Thomassen, justifying the British soldiers (who refused the exercises !!!), explained that they have a special attitude to health and safety. They sit in the barracks and flatly refuse to undergo any kind of professional training whenever the thermometer drops below eight degrees. ... in such a frost, soldiers cannot use diapers that are given to them for the duration of long exercises because of the impossibility of putting toilet stalls in forests, in the mountains and on other rough terrain. Once the urine cools down, the genitals begin to freeze, and in two soldiers the genitals literally froze to the inside of the disposable diaper. The British soldiers were not able to pour into a snowdrift, as ethnic Norwegians still do, the young generation lost these skills.
  9. Alex20042004
    Alex20042004 7 March 2018 16: 32
    +2
    “MSTA-S” AGAINST PALADIN - VIRTUAL DUEL OF SELF-PROPELLERS

    “MSTA CALIBRATION WEAPONS - 152 MM, AND AT THE AMERICAN PALADIN - THIS 155 MM. ACS TASKS - SUPPORTING THE LAND TROOPS AND DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST ECHELON TEAM POINTS, DESTRUCTION OF THE ARTILLERY DIVISIONS ”,

    "If the Russian machine further preparation before firing required - detachable AUTOMATIC GUN stupor, turn the towers, and guns suggests, then" Paladin "is coulters, it should rest against, OTHERWISE THE MACHINE WILL wobble during the shooting and the accuracy violated. AFTER SHOOTING IT SHOULD BE TAKEN OFF, AND THIS IS AN EXTRA TIME ”,

    “MSTA-S” MAY CONSISTENTLY LAUNCH, FOR EXAMPLE, 6 APPLICATIONS SO THAT ALL OF THEY SIMULTANEOUSLY OBJECT THE GOAL, THIS IS ACHIEVED BY VARIOUS FLIGHT TRAJECTORIES. THIS IS NECESSARY TO SAVE THE LIFE OF CREWS. Having performed such a volley, the self-propelled gun will leave the position, and the adversary will have less time to find it. ”
    1. Curious
      Curious 7 March 2018 18: 14
      +2
      "AUTOMATICALLY GUN STUNDS FELT"
      The stupor in itself is an unpleasant thing, and it’s automatic ... Why is it on a cannon?
  10. Fedorov
    Fedorov 7 March 2018 16: 52
    +13
    But this ancient "Carnation" ...
  11. Bosch
    Bosch 7 March 2018 17: 25
    +2
    Weapons can only be compared during the simultaneous combat use of the compared samples.
  12. ALEXXX1983
    ALEXXX1983 7 March 2018 17: 41
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: ALEXXX1983
    in Msta-S automation is not complete

    ?
    According to the shells, complete.

    The loader puts them on the video, and the AZ already sends out and locks the shutter. This, of course, is not completely manual loading, as in the case of amers, but it still does not do without a charger. request
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: ALEXXX1983
    Surprised by the difference in the size of the propellant charge. Amer’s firing range is much larger, but the size of the MH is 2 times smaller.

    ?
    Do you think that this module is designed for firing at maximum range? One "green" is a range of up to 8 km.
    8)))

    Thanks for the explanation. hi
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 March 2018 17: 56
      +8
      Quote: ALEXXX1983
      The loader puts them on the video, and the AZ already sends out and locks the shutter.

      Are you probably talking about the video when the charging charging shells were thrown because the coordinator was turned off so that it would not pull the operator with the camera down? This is an abnormal loading option.
      The loading of shells in 2C19 is fully automated.
      And most importantly, in 2C19, unlike the Palladine, the barrel does not have to be put in a position for loading. Which is very useful when shooting. Accuracy boosts.

      Quote: ALEXXX1983
      Thanks for the explanation.


      http://factmil.com/publ/vpk/artillerijsko_strelko
      vaja_promyshlennost / zarubezhnye_modulnye_metateln
      ye_zarjady_2011/19-1-0-250
      1. ALEXXX1983
        ALEXXX1983 7 March 2018 18: 02
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        Quote: ALEXXX1983
        The loader puts them on the video, and the AZ already sends out and locks the shutter.

        Are you probably talking about the video when the charging charging shells were thrown because the coordinator was turned off so that it would not pull the operator with the camera down? This is an abnormal loading option.
        The loading of shells in 2C19 is fully automated.
        And most importantly, in 2C19, unlike the Palladine, the barrel does not have to be put in a position for loading. Which is very useful when shooting. Accuracy boosts.

        Quote: ALEXXX1983
        Thanks for the explanation.


        http://factmil.com/publ/vpk/artillerijsko_strelko
        vaja_promyshlennost / zarubezhnye_modulnye_metateln
        ye_zarjady_2011/19-1-0-250

        Clear. Now I'll know.
        1. san4es
          san4es 7 March 2018 19: 25
          +5
          hi 2s19m1 loader mechanism soldier
          1. Firework
            Firework 8 March 2018 05: 03
            +1
            thanks for the video, clarified many points, artillery for the Russian Armed Forces is our everything! it’s difficult to conduct combat operations without it. I wonder how in the modern Russian army things are with the interaction of artillery and other military branches?
  13. k_ply
    k_ply 7 March 2018 20: 18
    +3
    ... the latest American artillery system M109A7 ...

    Ha! Only the latest modification of the oldest artillery system of the currently existing self-propelled 152/155-mm caliber (2C3 slightly younger).
    Quote: Spade
    ... M777. The only light one, but this characteristic of it is in demand only in the airborne assault and airborne assault brigades, of which there are only 7)

    I’ll only slightly correct a respected person in terms of the military composition of a potential enemy ... There are 8 such brigades (except for the 82nd Airborne Forces, 101st Airborne Forces and 173rd Airborne Brigade), there is the 4th Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division of the regular army, which is airborne based, by the way, in Alaska closest to the Russian Federation ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Infantry_Divis
    ion_ (United_States) #Organization

    ... Well, normally only one of the three fire batteries in the artillery divisions of the brigades (total: 6 155 mm M777 and 12 105 mm BG M119), although the above parts are not much different from the OSH infantry brigades and combat capabilities.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 March 2018 22: 55
      +2
      Quote: k_ply
      I’ll only slightly correct a respected person in terms of the military composition of a potential enemy ... There are 8 such brigades (except for the 82nd Airborne Forces, 101st Airborne Forces and 173rd Airborne Brigade), there is the 4th Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division of the regular army, which is airborne based, by the way, in Alaska closest to the Russian Federation ...

      I agree.
      But this is not particularly important. All the same, they "titanium howitzers" in the first place supplied to the "Stryker" brigade.

      Quote: k_ply
      Well, and nominally only one of the three fire batteries in the artillery divisions of the brigades (total: 6 155 mm M777 and 12 105 mm BG M119)

      And the reason is simple and transparent. The M777 is lightweight, but still not enough for the main machine of the paratrooper units, the Humvee. Therefore, for a complete rearmament, it is necessary to "teach how to jump" a standard three-axle truck M1083
      1. k_ply
        k_ply 8 March 2018 08: 19
        +2
        I know the reasons. And the howitzer was too heavy for Black Hawk (M119 only).
  14. abc_alex
    abc_alex 8 March 2018 01: 29
    0
    The National Interest publication in its material compared the newest American artillery system M109A7, which should replace the main US Army self-propelled gun M109A6 Paladin and the Russian 152-mm SAU XacUMX2 Acacia, which had already been replaced by the nymnn. "Coalition"


    AMAZING !!! They are comparing a hypothetical staffed self-propelled guns, which they are only planning to adopt with the Russian self-propelled guns, which they plan to soon withdraw from service and find in this comparison some kind of superiority in some kind of integration !!! Where can a sample be integrated that is not in service? Unless in the budget ...
  15. Firework
    Firework 8 March 2018 06: 32
    0
    the body of the German howitzer PzH 2000 provides protection against bullets of caliber up to 14.5 mm and fragments of 152 mm shells

    I wonder at what distance a 152-155 mm shell should fall to damage this howitzer?
  16. Orionvit
    Orionvit 8 March 2018 13: 31
    0
    US howitzers more integrated
    What nonsense. The interaction of the armed forces over the past century has been perfected to perfection. If this is not somewhere, this is a minus of the army itself.
  17. raif
    raif 9 March 2018 22: 12
    0
    the author would have invented at least one digit - for example, the firing range. and so it seems to become, but it seems like nothing