Japan may refuse to develop the domestic fighter

The Japanese Ministry of Defense is currently considering the possibility of abandoning the development of its own stealth aircraft, which was to replace the F-2 fighter-bomber, reports TASS the message of the newspaper Asahi.

This is a project called Advanced Technology Demonstrator X (ATD-X), the development of which Japanese engineers have been engaged in in recent years.

According to the newspaper, the Japanese military command is considering two options: “go to the joint development of a fighter with some country or completely abandon the project and purchase additional F-35A from the United States.”

The publication reminds that the creation of ATD-X was engaged in the company Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. “Great hopes were pinned on this project - the Japanese defense ministry insisted on preserving and developing the national technology of the aviation structure,” the publication says.

However, domestic development was too expensive. This circumstance forces the military to look for other options.

Comments

[Andrey Yuryevich]

what for them? buy f 35 ...

[Finches]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

what for them? buy f 35 ...

The Americans told them so, they even said how much and how much ...

[Nasrat]

Just - it didn’t work ...

[ul_vitalii]

Amers have the entire military-industrial complex for friends, but for money, so to speak, voluntary-compulsory relations.

[avt]

Quote: Nasr

Just - it didn’t work ...

Everything they do, albeit quite average level, but soundly. AND

Quote: Nasr

Simple

in the fact that they were forbidden from the time of World War II to make aircraft, slowly but consistently they are trying to get out of the ban, but until the US they are forced to buy the Fu-35. The country is simply occupied.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: avt

since the times of World War II they were forbidden to make aircraft

Did you joke like that? They made a bunch of planes, including military ones. But really to invent something worthwhile is beyond their power - they’re dumb, sir ... Immensely.

[voyaka uh]

Everyone would be so "dumb" ....
I have been replacing unbreakable Subaru for 25 years
and bless the "dumb" Japanese .

[Spike Javelin Touvich]

say you keep Subaru clean
but for some reason all my friends who have Subaru
half a ton of dirt in the car
Coincidence

[Zaurbek]

This will not last long .. CVTs have already gone, couplings in the rear axle drive and milk turbo engines will soon go ... Toyota is now on this path (Fod has already gone. Subaru and Mazda are making normal cars ...

[voyaka uh]

I assume that all cars are in perspective
will turn into Tesla. No boxes, no shafts, no engine -
no iron whatsoever. Empty interior, two luggage carriers (hood and rear).
By electric motor in each wheel, steering wheel and under the bottom throughout
length - battery.
Why is this going to happen? - so cheaper for the manufacturer. At ten
times less parts and spare parts.

[Zaurbek]

And we will repair them in the agreed kilometers and will stop riding clearly in the agreed period of time. I'm in life like something on Fords ... already 4th with me. And also an unproblematic device.

[Setrac]

Quote: voyaka uh

I assume that all cars are in perspective
will turn into Tesla.

Where to get so much electricity?

[gromoboj]

It remains to solve one problem, where to get so many rare earth elements for batteries.

[voyaka uh]

From sea water. The Japanese developed the technology and began mining.

[gromoboj]

If the energy from the sea water is good. And then burning fuel oil for the sake of charging batteries is somehow wrong. Well, with the charging time, the problem is solved, but at the same time with the charge density. Because in freezing temperatures of -25 and traffic jams, 500 flight paths turn into 200.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: voyaka uh

Everyone would be so "dumb" ....

Be. I do not mind. You can even be dumb.

[gromoboj]

Why are you changing? Does it start to break? =)

[avt]

Quote: Avis-bis

Did you joke like that?

This is the way we described objective reality.

Quote: Avis-bis

They made a bunch of planes, including military ones.

Yeah - F-4, F-15? The F-2 mentioned in the article is an attempt to get out of the USA press in the form of a hypertrophied F-16, we won’t buy it, but we’ll depict something like “screwdrivers”. They just jumped out with their transporter and PLO airplane and drove off the striker ,, Apache "his own ,, Ninja." Such here

Quote: Avis-bis

stupid, sir ... Immensely.

And this is the classic of the genre. They are FORCED to buy the Fu-35 and they crushed the campaign.

According to the newspaper, the Japanese military command is considering two options: “go to the joint development of a fighter with some country or completely abandon the project and purchase additional F-35A from the United States.”

They’re still trying to throw a stunt like with the F-2, well, when the F-16 refused to take it, and if it works out at least to jump out like that, we'll see.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: avt

Yeah - F-4, F-15?

Well, the Japanese did the Mitsubishi F-1. True, then they spat on this matter and the next national F-2 fighter was washed down on the basis of the F-16, together with Lockheed.

[avt]

Quote: Alexey RA

Well, the Japanese did the Mitsubishi F-1

They did it with an eye on F-4. And really, not a mouse, not a frog.

Quote: Alexey RA

the next national fighter F-2 was shot down on the basis of the F-16, together with Lockheed.

So what am I talking about ?!

Quote: avt

The F-2 mentioned in the article is an attempt to get out of the USA press in the form of a hypertrophied F-16, we won’t buy it, but we’ll depict something like “screwdrivers”.

Now

Quote: avt

They’re still trying to throw a stunt like with F-2.

Based on the Fu-35.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: avt

Quote: Avis-bis

Did you joke like that?

This is the way we described objective reality.

Quote: Avis-bis

They made a bunch of planes, including military ones.

Yeah - F-4, F-15?

No. The concept of "combat aircraft" fighters is not limited to.

[the most important]

Quote: Finches

Quote: Andrey Yurievich
what for them? buy f 35 ...
The Americans told them so, they even said how much and how much ...

but they won’t buy it, they’ll get a pendell and still buy it, but it’s only bigger and more expensive ...

[Monos]

or completely abandon the project and purchase additional F-35A from the USA

As soon as I read the title of the article, I immediately understood the reason for the refusal. Am I so smart or Japanese idiots?

[rotmistr60]

Am I so smart or Japanese idiots?

You’ll become an “idiot” when for 73 years Americans have set their brains on them.

or completely abandon the project and purchase additional F-35A from the USA

Although they honestly admit that there is no getting anywhere with the "American submarine."

[bouncyhunter]

Victor, I categorically welcome!

However, domestic development was too expensive. This circumstance forces the military to look for other options.

What is it that they pushed such yapi into their product that it turned out to be more expensive than the Fu-35?

[Monos]

Hello Pasha!

Quote: bouncyhunter

What is it that they stuffed such yapi into their product?

Why can they cram something so special there? They didn’t shove it, someone shoved it to them.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Monos

They didn’t shove it, someone shoved it to them.

It seems to me that this “someone” is terribly star-striped and “exceptional”. And excuses about the high cost of their own development - a weak attempt to save face.

[Monos]

Quote: bouncyhunter

And excuses about the high cost of their own development - a weak attempt to save face.

No, well, maybe for Yap, the development really comes out a little expensive (it is unlikely that they have all the necessary competencies and resources), but it definitely could not do without the intervention of amers.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Monos

but without the intervention of amers it definitely could not do.

Is there any doubt about this ???

[Avis-bis]

Quote: bouncyhunter

What is it that they pushed such yapi into their product that it turned out to be more expensive than the Fu-35?

Tablets for viewing and drawing comics. they cannot invent anything else.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Avis-bis

they cannot invent anything else.

You shouldn’t be so, Sergey! For all the Yapov submarine - in electronics they are strong.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Quote: Avis-bis

they cannot invent anything else.

You shouldn’t be so, Sergey! For all the Yapov submarine - in electronics they are strong.

Pash, I'm not talking about production, but about inventions. Japas can lick someone else's invention to the ideal, to the absolute, but not to invent it. Neither the radio, nor the transistor, nor the microcircuit, nor the local oscillator were invented. And they have good tape recorders and receivers, yes. (Although I personally would have more pleasure in buying a transistor "Brown" or "Grundig" than the modern Japanese counterpart).
But we're talking about aviation. Most of their WWII aircraft are either based on other people's designs (Germany and the USA), or they’re full of crap. Well, and with aeronautics, and at all a clowning. For reparations, ane received two airships from Germany. One could not even be assembled, the second was drowned. And this despite the fact that they did not have such a devastation of the 1910-20s as we have. It would seem - ideal conditions for creativity. Avotfig ...
A modern airplane is a lot of electronics, yes. But, nevertheless, the whole world buys Premier-I and Phenom, but not Honda-Jet. I wonder why? :)

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Avis-bis

I'm not talking about production, but about inventions

What are you talking about? I misunderstood you.

Quote: Avis-bis

I personally would be more pleased to buy a transistor "Brown" or "Grundig" than the modern Japanese counterpart

I won’t say anything about the modern one, but I still have the Yapov two-drawer Sharp 1988 model year - not a single breakdown.

Quote: Avis-bis

Japas can lick someone else's invention to the ideal, to the absolute, but not invent it.

I agree completely.

[voyaka uh]

"What is it that they pushed such yapes into their product that it turned out to be more expensive than the Fu-35" ////

Everything is simple here. F-35 - in large-scale (even mass)
production. It is always cheaper than a single assembly.
If the Japanese planned to release their plane in
amount of several hundred, it could turn out cheaply.
But they do not have time - the Chinese, whose 5th generation has already taken to the stream, are shaking.
The Japanese need a hundred and five, at least. And in the vertical version - on their own
helicopter carriers - a few dozen.

[bouncyhunter]

As for the series - I do not argue, but still I have no doubt that the United States, with its characteristic "softness and unobtrusiveness", pressed Japan. Why have no doubt? Yes, because the pragmatic Japanese calculated the cost ten times before the start of development, and since the development was started, it means that the calculations were quite fine. And suddenly: "too expensive."

[voyaka uh]

The Japanese (like the Americans) could not calculate that
China will rearm at such an unprecedented rate. China has taken everyone by surprise.
The Japanese have their own assembly plant for the F-35.
And your assembly plant F-15. But factories are of low productivity. In peacetime.
And an armed conflict with China could erupt at any time.
Not a nuclear war, namely the “ego war” (who is the boss here, in the Far East!).
And the Japanese realized that they were behind. We need modern aircraft, and not
in single copies.

[bouncyhunter]

Well: a large giraffe - he knows better. Just do not forget who needs a hotbed of tension in the Far East and who will cut coupons from this.

[parkello]

everything is much more prosaic than Monos, they will not master production in this decade. and understand this. It will be cheaper to buy and modify the F-35 than to create your own. this is not Russia for you. which has everything for this, even the testing ground in the form of ATS. in fact, to build a combat aircraft, and even able to withstand competition today, no one except Russia is capable of. even the Americans are no longer capable. not to mention all other countries. China only knows what is good to copy. they just understand that having that scientific potential and natural resources, their navel will unleash to create a 5th generation fighter. in other areas they have no equal yes. but in the field of military aviation they won’t even catch up with Sweden. even if they stumble and create a combat-ready machine, it will not have super-qualities ... this sheepskin is not worth the effort in other words. and the Americans already have this machine on the assembly line. and let it an iron, but by and large they don’t need more. because if a real war starts, they will simply be washed off by the next tsunami ...

[Black Colonel]

The Chinese have the 5th generation - it’s said a lot. They still could not write full-fledged engines even for their 4th generation, because the resource is many times less than Russian analogues.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Black Colonel

The Chinese have the 5th generation - it’s said a lot. They still could not write full-fledged engines even for their 4th generation, because the resource is many times less than Russian analogues.

By the way, yes. Cruising supersonic (one of the signs of the 5th generation) is not only aerodynamics, but also engines.

[Orionvit]

And how many enthusiastic screams were on the forum, a couple of years ago, when this "pepelats" just took off (though it lost something right away). Like, Japan will once again show everyone and give it to everyone. Well, the result? She gave it to the Americans, and showed the rest that "not all progress is made to the Japanese." Not pulled "Japan mother" such a thing as modern aviation. True, some here put the “Subaru” as an example, so what? For example, I like halva, but I do not shout that the Turks are the coolest confectioners.

[Spartanez300]

If the plane will be the same as Japanese cartoons then it is better not worth it.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Spartanez300

the same as Japanese cartoons

Don't you like anime?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Greenwood

Quote: Spartanez300

the same as Japanese cartoons

Don't you like anime?

And why love him? :)

[Greenwood]

This is an anime. I know a bunch of people who drag themselves from it and download gigabytes from torrents. And looks in the evenings. And these are adults 20-30 years old.

[Sergej1972]

Some look at 40-50 years.)

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Quote: Sergej1972

Some look at 40-50 years.)

“He’s fucked up, he has a scar on his head, he’s not afraid of pain ... and he’s always 14” (c)

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Greenwood

This is an anime. I know a bunch of people who drag themselves from it and download gigabytes from torrents. And looks in the evenings. And these are adults 20-30 years old.

Only formally adults.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Spartanez300

If the plane will be the same as Japanese cartoons then it is better not worth it.

Transforming in flight and growing tentacles?

[Falcond]

The Americans probably told them so)

[siberalt]

And what is he to them? No American missile defense will protect him.

[bazzbazz]

Japan is losing its identity, completely bent under the mattresses.

[Magic archer]

Initially, it was clear that America would not allow the vassal to create his own plane. Otherwise, how to pay for the F-35?! The same thing happened once with the Jewish Lavi.

[Knizhnik]

The reason is a "voluntary - forced" purchase of the F-35. Vae victis! And then God forbid the plane will turn out better than that of the Yankees.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Knizhnik

And then God forbid the plane will turn out better than that of the Yankees.

Why would he be better? This is not a robot musician or a toilet bowl with music.

[Knizhnik]

And why not give the opportunity to create and "bring" your plane? Let them do it ourselves, and then we will all be compared together with a robot musician and a toilet bowl with music. The skin of an unkilled bear is not only not shared, but also not evaluated

[Gray brother]

Quote: Knizhnik

And why not give the opportunity to create and "bring" your plane?

So there was an opportunity, but they don’t need it, here they need a toilet with music and they made it, but there is no plane.

[Knizhnik]

but they don’t need

Who decided that? You? Trump? The pope

[Vincent]

What for? "The umbrella is full of holes" (C)

[san4es]

Japan may refuse to develop the domestic fighter

The main aircraft contractor is Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. In 2004, to demonstrate the possibility of creating advanced military developments, it was decided to create their own fifth-generation fighter, built using stealth technology. However, the project was not considered for arming.

The X-2 made its first flight on April 22, 2016. The plane started from the airfield in Nagoya

26 May 2017 city

[aszzz888]

“Great expectations were placed on this project - the Japanese defense department insisted on the preservation and development of national aircraft construction technologies ”,

Before the first and last departure, "drove" a stack of sake, a bandage on his head and without a parachute - "On the fly!" Chassis immediately fall off in the air so that the samurai does not change his mind.

[taiga2018]

Japanese, make TVs, cars, etc., but don’t even dare to climb into the territory of the US military-industrial complex, because Hiroshima and Nagasaki are already shot ...

[driver]

And before they knew how to do it. The Zero was a nightmare for American pilots at the start of the war. And now that's it, buy what the occupier gives.

[viralig]

Well, as I said earlier, Japan will abandon its plane. There were objective reasons for this, the main one being US pressure. It was a pity, of course, an interesting idea.

[Herman 4223]

Interestingly, did they consider that the money would leave the country when buying f-35? If they buy their own, then this is jobs in their country and part of the money will be returned in the form of taxes, and what is cheaper then?

[d1975]

Quote: Nasr

Just - it didn’t work ...

With sovereignty or a fighter?

[cats]

Of course it's easier to buy ...
Soon, Japanese children will be striped too,
for a small fee ..

[Falcond]

They will give up their own, they will not buy their own .. and then it turns out that their aviation industry has gone into oblivion!))

Gentlemen ... then all the Japanese tease ... and criticize ... that they say they are going to buy American! ... And how would you sing if they decided our Su-35 ... or something else ... to buy?) )

[Sergey D_2]

Japanese Zero during the war were one of the most effective fighters.

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Quote: Sergey D_2

Japanese Zero during the war were one of the most effective fighters.

The crowd and the sly, on the first hit - fell apart

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh

The crowd and the sly

This is called "concentration of effort" and "realization of the advantage in height." According to Pokryshkin - "height-speed-maneuver-fire." In American - "boom-zoom" (there is a longer variation a la Pokryshkin) ..

on first hit - falling apart

This is yes, with reservations. Zero did not have a cabin reservation and tanks were not inspected. It wouldn’t fall apart from just falling. If only because the Americans almost did not use guns, but relied on machine guns.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avis-bis

This is called "concentration of effort" and "realization of the advantage in height." According Pokryshkin - "height-speed-maneuver-fire"

Hehe hehe ... the funniest thing is that this tactic is American. The only suitable tactics for Yankee fighters, which before the Halleks were not distinguished by maneuverability.
The Japanese, however, ran into individual craftsmanship and dogfight. On which, in the end, they got burnt, having faced the team work of the Yankees. At the same Midway, five and a half dozen “zeros” chased the five “wildcats” of Tech - and they dispersed, EMNIP, with an equal result for the shot down.
In Aviation and Time, there were excerpts from the memoirs of one of the Japanese aces - he howled like a wolf, watching his squadron comrades instead of team work chasing a pair of American fighter jets at all, absolutely not paying attention to the fact that another pair fell into their tail Yankees. Or try to impose individual fights on the Yankees acting as a team.

Quote: Avis-bis

This is yes, with reservations. Zero did not have a cabin reservation and tanks were not inspected. It wouldn’t fall apart from just falling.

Let's just say that the outstanding characteristics of the Zero were bought at the price of outstanding shortcomings. But while in the Zero cockpits sat the pre-war graduates of the flight school, day-seeing stars in the sky (and among the Americans - alternative-minded pilots climbing on “decks” in dogfight), Japanese fighters were used so that their advantages were used to the full, and deficiencies offset by tactics. In short, the Zero was a fighter for the elite.
But when the pre-war shots of the Japanese were knocked out, and the Americans registered in the cockpit those who, at the training stage, had hammered all the strengths and weaknesses of the Zero - here the Japanese became ill. Because the massive Japanese frame could no longer compensate for the shortcomings and stick out the virtues - but the Yankees knew exactly what to do and what not to do in the battle with Zero:

1. Never attempt to engage in a dogfight with a Zero
2. Never attempt to maneuver with the Zero at speeds below three hundred (300) miles per hour on the speedometer [483 km / h], unless you are behind it.
3. Never chase the Zero vertically at low speeds. (Those armed with aircraft at large angles may begin to stall, while the Zero will only reach the speed most favorable for maneuvering. Here it will be possible to complete the loop with the attack from the back quarter).
The most important features that should be taken into account when developing successful Zero counteraction tactics are its insufficient roll speed at high speeds and its engine failures in conditions of negative overloads [the result of using a float carburetor and, at the same time, an explanation of the “slide effect”].
[...]
Large ailerons provide the aircraft with high maneuverability at speeds of up to three hundred (300) miles per hour on the speedometer. At speeds above three hundred (300) miles per hour on the speedometer, it becomes almost impossible to change the direction of the turn.
The Zero pivot speed from right to left is much higher than from left to right.

© midnike

[viralig]

So I’m talking about something that, according to the idea, a good bird should have been. Yes, the United States hacked - they need to start up their series so that the unit price is reduced, not for nothing that they teased North Korea - to put both missile defense and their planes, so that it looks motivated for the rest of the world.

[gukoyan]

Of course, they will refuse their own plane, the owners pushed their F-35, so the Japanese have little choice)

[arhPavel]

Good for us, bad for the development of aviation in general.
Preparing defense against one type of weapon is easier. That's just for aviation, Japanese is not even a good topic is an experience that is the son of difficult mistakes.

[Sands Careers General]

It is necessary for mattresses to vparivat their Fu-35 to their "partners" (and rather vassals).

[Knizhnik]

The money issue is a different story there, the rotation of the price of 1 plane by the way was discussed at VO. Even Norway managed to cram.

[Sands Careers General]

The Fu-35, in fact, was developed in order to match the maximum majority of countries, but money must be beaten off. Now, of course, it has fallen in price, but an astronomical amount has been spent on development.

[Knizhnik]

It was a little different: the plane by plane, but no one canceled it. And then Trump with his grunts that the Allies invest little in NATO. So they shoved everyone who has a good budget surplus

[kos2910]

More expensive than masterclasses? Nightmare...

[Incvizitor]

According to the newspaper, the Japanese military command is considering two options: “go to the joint development of a fighter with a country or completely abandon the project and purchase additional F-35A

Fragment of a kholuy, occupied country.

[Stoler]

Repetition of the Israeli "Lavi" project. One to one.

[gromoboj]

All right nefig develop your own. Cut the prototype, and destroy the documentation.
And that’s what you thought of doing your own thing. fi-35 is not willing to buy.